that totally seems to be his effect. whether it’s intentional- he seems to savvy for it not to be. idk.
Like, he’s chaotic evil, but realises that if he’s *utilitarian* good there’s not enough reason to mount an epic campaign to depose him.
Not Chaotic Evil – those types are 100% self centered.
Most definitely Lawful Evil – the most sinister type – just like lawyers.
I was going to say criminal but lets not be redundant.
That is a baseless generalization about chaotic evil types. Chaotic evil just means no moral compass and no sense of stricture. Not necessarily self-centered.
Mike is Chaotic Neutral with an unpleasant personality. He’s not selfish in the traditional sense, but selfish in the sense that he acts in specific ways to get specific reactions out of people for his own amusement or curiosity, even if such behavior puts himself at a disadvantage or causes bad things to happen to himself. He’s extremely interested in those around him, like he’s doing nothing but running social experiment after social experiment, possibly attempting to shape the world to his own wishes, or just attempting to understand the human condition from behind his pessimistic demeanor.
I’d definitely say he’s chaotic good. Nobody knows his endgame, and they might not like what he’s doing, but he always makes somebody realize something or pushes them to do the right thing. He’s a grade A ass that will fuck your mom for a nickel, but he does it for your own good.
For the most part that’s the read I get off him as well. Although boy did his “pep talk” with Ethan backfire!
His scheme to seduce Ethan makes me doubt my interpretation of his character though. I desperately want him to be an “ends-justifies-the-means”, trying to get positive results kind of guy but I think we need more time with the character to be sure.
Meh… not for me. It’s one of the few songs I’ve never found a cover of too my liking, and I love Bowling For Soup, but: https://youtu.be/ykPlT2G_HeM
…well, I guess it’s not the worst? (BFS’s version was better live.)
Green is a strong choice. It’s got plenty of connections to strength and determination. See, for example, the legendary Jason David Frank, the renowned martial artist who grew to fame playing Tommy Oliver in Power Rangers. Both on- and off-screen, he’s a paragon of courage, never giving up, and always doing what you think is right.
Green is also commonly associated with renewal, growth, stability, and good luck. It could help subconsciously reinforce any positive changes you’ve decided to make in your life. There are worse colors to choose, is my point.
I like the half and half idea but that’s a lot more work to keep looking good!
Both are good options. If you have the patience to two-tone it I’d suggest purple/turquoise (perhaps purple at the roots, turquoise at the ends with it mixed in the middle so it blends through.)
Well, Amber’s the only person Mike is acquainted with (that we know of) that punches people on a regular basis, *and* has stabbed not one, but two people, all without ever getting in trouble with the police.
I’m not sure if Mike qualifies for edgelord status. He seems to have clear goals to screw with other people in anyway possible while genuinely not caring about how they view him (barring cases like Ethan’s where he’s actively trying to deceive them into believing he cares for a larger emotional impact later on.)
Heck, I don’t think he’s ever mentioned wanting to watch the world burn since his signature line is, “I’m whatever you don’t want me to be.” And the thing about nickels and mothers but we’ll leave that alone for now.
Oh no, I definitely think he was serious about being into it. In Shortpacked’s verse, where Amber and Mike dated and fell in love and got married and had A KID, Mike was definitely shown to be a masochist and they have a lot of good consensual power struggle sex.
He probably/definitely at least witnessed some shittiness and that her dad was an asshole as a childhood friend of hers, but I wouldn’t be surprised for him to know almost everything. Earlier comics have made it seem like she, him, and Ethan were a tight friend group.
I disagree, at this point. I could see them having the potential to get to that point but right now Amber is too mentally unstable- he would have too much influence over her recovery.
In Shortpacked! it felt to me like a journey of growth and strength that made sense to me, personally.
He got Dorothy to stop acting ashamed of her feelings for Walky and just acknowledge it openly. He also challenged Billie and Walky about their attitude towards Joyce, getting Billie at least to admit to wanting her to be back to herself.
And while he was partially responsible for Ethan asking out Joyce his reaction makes it pretty clear he hadn’t planned that- and, I think, that he didn’t approve.
Not saying either interpretation of Mike’s character is right, or wrong. I don’t know what Mike’s motives are. I look forward to finding out though, and I hope the optimists are proven at least partly correct.
What? If anything it’s the other way around. People assuming he has hidden noble intentions because that used to be his deal, when really he’s just an asshole like 95% of the time.
Walkyverse Mike had straight up asshole superpowers – he would do something horrible, and via a series of wacky hijinks it would turn out to trigger someone’s character development and have been for the best in the long run. Most of his actions were the kind of cartoonish over the top bastardry you can’t help but admire. He also had a hidden “good” side (when drunk), and was humanized by his relationships with Dina and Amber.
Dumbiverse Mike lives in a more realistic universe. Him being an asshole rarely, if ever, has a positive outcome, and there’s no indication that he’s trying to get one. Most of his actions come off as kind of petty, just making people’s life worse for shits and giggles. We also haven’t seen any side of Mike that’s not more… Mike.
It doesn’t help that Mike is very much a one-dimensional secondary character at the moment, but until he gets more screen time we have to judge him on what we’ve seen. Which, broadly, is “complete dickwaffle.”
Do you mean him being polite to Stacy? Maybe I’m bad at judging things, but other than that his behaviour seems pretty standard for him here, and since it’s within Stacy’s earshot, I wouldn’t consider it hidden.
I think it’s more that he’s hiding it from her specifically. Most likely due to knowing what she went through at the hands of Blaine, and actually having enough of a heart to not want to trigger flashbacks.
It says a lot about a person when Mike doesn’t want you to see them in him.
Actually, has Mike ever used Amber’s father as material for his arseholery? I don’t recall…
Is there any evidence he knew she was AG at that or any other time?
He did once raise the issue that, if Amber was so concerned with being like her parents (when she worried she’d end up dating an abusive asshole like her mom did), but she consistently dated harmless mild-mannered spine-deficient types like Ethan or Danny, maybe she should be more worried about emulating her dad than her mom… which isn’t UNTRUE but given her massive issues with feeling like she’s doomed to be a horrible violent person, that probably wasn’t great for her. On the other hand, I don’t think there’s any evidence he actually knew that was a thing for her, so much as it was an opportunity for him to contradict someone and make them feel a normal level of bad about themselves.
Basically I don’t know if there’s enough evidence either way to conclusively state if Mike is capable of being not-horrible in this continuity.
Maybe I need to read through it again, but I don’t remember him ever coming across as badly as he does here.
I actually enjoyed the dynamic between him and Amber there. He was still a jerk, but he actually had positive qualities and most of the time was merely grumpy. He didn’t seem to deliberately hit people where they were most sensitive like he does here.
Maybe it was just that there, he was mostly being mean to customers, instead of his friends and people he cared about.
that… would seem to support my guess? like, people got attached to the character in Shortpacked, and that carried over, and all interactions here are being seen through rose-tinted glasses?
Yeah Mike is vastly different in DoA. Short of maybe one or two incidents where he’s just being a dick for the sake of it, a lot of his dickitude in SP was intentionally designed to foster other peoples’ personal growth, even if he went to some reprehensible lengths for that sometimes.
Mike in DoA is a teenage edgelord who exists to fuck with people and tear them down, especially if he can use their own personalities against them. Only rarely is that actually helpful to anyone.
Fart Captor – Did you miss the part in Shortpacked where Mike goads Amber into punching him while in an intimate relationship with her SPECIFICALLY to pull up her fears about becoming a domestic abuser?
To be fair…going back and looking at it now, Amber totally deserved it in Shortpacked. I’d forgotten that she was blackmailing Mike into being her boyfriend for, like, months. That whole relationship was just so very fucked up.
I think its more the world that has changed around Mike in DOA, and much like Robin that shift to a more realistic world reveals what an ass he was when the universe isn’t bending over backwards to make his dickishnesss turn out to serve a greater purpose.
Shortpacked Mike reminds me of what Morty says about Rick. “Everything real turns fake. Everything right is wrong. All you know is that you know nothing and he knows everything. And, well…well, he’s not a villain, Summer, but he shouldn’t be your hero. He’s more like a demon or a super f***** up god.”
DOA Mike, on the other hand, is just abusive and abrasive because the universe doesn’t accommodate his awfulness like that anymore. This might be the nicest thing we’ve ever seen Mike do, and since this is just one strip there’s no reason to think this isn’t also aimed at being awful.
Well, she does go out of her way to solve problems with violence, has been verbally abusive on multiple occasions, and sees no problem with either of those activities so long as she wears a stupid mask to do them in. Dude has a point
No, he absolutely does not, because those are about as much alike as kiddie pool and the ocean.
Blaine wasn’t just a mean guy with anger problems who shouted a lot an occasionally got violent. He was a completely selfish narcissist with zero empathy for the people around him. He was a man who abused his own wife and daughter – people he is supposed to love and support – physically, verbally, and emotionally. He never struggled with his emotions or felt sorry afterwards, anymore than he cared about who he hurt in the first place. Blaine viewed his own family as property, like a mix of household appliances and decorative trophies. There to make him look better and make his life easier. When those didn’t happen, he got mad, and eventually violent.
Amber is absolutely nothing like her father.
Yes, she has anger management problems and she snaps at people sometimes. But when that happens, the initial spark for her anger was something completely normal, such that only the scale of her reaction was out of line. The loud, rage-filled outbursts are brief, and with the exception of Blaine getting a vicious beating he completely deserved, she has never physically harmed anyone in her rage. There’s shouting and flipped tables, but with a single exception*, no violence. Unlike Blaine, she feels remorse, often apologizing immediately, and seeking to make amends if possible, like she did with Joyce. With Danny she would usually try to do this, until she became convinced the only way to do right by him was to stay away from him (Thanks for that, Mike).
*The one exception being when her dad egged her into stabbing Sal after the robbery, while she was still crying and panicking.
Yes, she’s used violence. Against people committing crimes, and even then, the violence used was measured, and proportionate to what was necessary to stop them. Only people she’s caught committing violent crimes have been shown getting any worse than tackled to stop their escape so that whatever they stole could be recovered.
And while vigilantism is illegal, her most of what she’s done only barely counts as vigilantism, and only because she seeks out those crimes. Civilian bystanders intervening when they witness a crime taking place is generally discouraged by police, but not actually against the law.
Blaine, on the other hand, ended up kidnapping one of Amber’s friends simply because she got him kicked off campus instead of letting him verbally abuse her (or whatever the fuck he planned on doing), in violation of a restraining order. So no, she’s nothing like him there.
Now, when she stalked and attacked Sal and her friends, that was genuinely awful of her. Really doesn’t make her like Blaine. The poor judgement and unhealthy fixation that lead her down that path were still nothing like Blaine’s, though. She was trying to work though a childhood trauma and failing to see how much that had clouded her judgement, and ended up not even being able to go through with it. Again, that’s not to say she did no wrong there, but unlike Blaine, the impetus for it didn’t from come from selfish, vindictive wrath, but a deep-rooted emotional struggle she didn’t know how else to resolve.
Mike is an asshole because he is entertained by the suffering of others. There is no nobler purpose behind it and any benefit that comes from it is incidental at best not the original purpose.
Mike gives me the impression that he has no time whatsoever for the insecurities of others – particularly when they are rooted in fears that he doesn’t see as well-founded.
Except he sees any social disadvantage caused by oppression or trauma as “not well-founded”. So fearing homophobic violence, dealing with intense anxiety and other mental illness, etc… are all “little things” in his eyes that are perfect little insecurities to make his playground.
Which is what makes him a horrible human being and a common type of douchebag.
Cerberus, I fail to see how any of that is an ‘except’ to my comment and your opinion of Mike is abundantly clear from your 1,200 + Words of original comments.
great, now I’m worrying that I might have said something upsetting when I was trying to say something kind because I worried Cerberus might be upset about having made a non-perfect comment and wanted to make her feel better… 😛
brains are silly. maybe if I just put all my cards on the table then there won’t be recursive worrying.
He doesn’t appear often enough in DOA to have replaced Walkyverse Mike in my head yet, I guess. I seriously forgot how young he is in this universe. ×-×’
And also, she is not Mrs Brennan, who would be the wife or former wife of a Mr Brennan. She is Ms Brennan, a woman who uses the surname Brennan.
She could also choose to be called Ms O’Malley, a woman who uses the surname O’Malley; or Mrs O’Malley, the wife or former wife of Mr O’Malley.
Probably not Miss Brennan – “Miss” used to be common for married women using their maiden name in a professional context (such as acting), but has now been pretty much replaced by Ms.
I wanted to make a joke about Stacy seeming to think Mike was a good and helpful person and then felt bad because he probably is compared to the guy she was married to.
Eh, Mike’s assholery definitely has a method to it, and there’s always a silver lining to the situations he creates. I don’t think he’s doing this for anyone but himself, though. If he was completely terrible to everyone all the time, they’d quickly tire of his shit and start avoiding him. By convincing them that he might have redeeming qualities after all, they stay in the ‘victim pool’ longer.
That’s our Mike. He’s an asshole. If he likes you, his assholery is likely to turn out in your favor. And he seems to like Amber or Stacy.
Note: Do NOT expect Mike’s assholery to come out in your favor. If he finds out you think he likes you he will double down on assholery and aim it square at you.
I refer to Walkyverse Mike and how it’s nice to see the tendency seems to have made the transition. The only known constant is Mike is an asshole not to be taken lightly.
it absolutely has not. remember when he harassed ethan back into the closet, and plotted to seduce ethan to hurt danny, or brought up amber’s horrible awkward night with ethan when she was vulnerable, or when he called amber an abuser like her father?
Mike is a bad person wno makes the lives of those who care for him worse. Maybe that will change. But it shows no sign.
Mike tag, on 10th page currently, strip titled ‘Lincoln’ at the very bottom. It was less harassing at that time and more being able to persuasively argue Ethan into living a lie again because Ethan had the confidence in his identity of a potato. He did later add to his insecurity by asking Joyce her views as he knew that it would fuck with Ethan.
Wow. I’d forgotten that part of the conversation. I want to read it as everything Mike is saying just drips with sarcasm and poor Ethan just takes it all in at face value…but yeah. shit. Thanks for finding the link.
With how Mike responded when Ethan went back into the closet a moment later, I don’t think that Mike actually intended to push him back in. I think Mike was trying to use his abrasiveness to frame the things he was saying in a negative light, so that Ethan would push back and end up more sure of himself.
But because Mike isn’t the tactical mastermind that he was in Walkyverse, none of his asshole plans are actually coming true the way he wanted them to.
I think that’s why everyone is interpreting Mike as same-old-same-old Jerk With A Heart of Gold; his actions and words all come off exactly the same as they always did. But they never seem to pay off, which is why the crowd that’s paying attention to the direct results of his actions is interpreting him as a pure, irredeemable asshole.
Because Mike can’t bend reality to match the intentions behind his assholery anymore, his intentions are becoming meaningless and all that matters anymore are his actions and their results. If you can always create a good result, your methods can be forgiven, but if not then your methods can only be measured by the likely outcome. And when the likely outcome of prodding people’s insecurities is to aggravate those same insecurities, you can’t be defended with, “I thought it would help them grow.” Dumbyverse doesn’t work on cartoon logic, so you can’t defend yourself with illogical, ridiculous claims. (And honestly, bullying people because you think it will help them grow is a pretty common defense for bullying, and it’s a shitty defense for a reason.)
It is possible that for once, Mike is actually trying to be nice and/or helpful, and is simply failing miserably at it simply because he is a trash monster with a sweaty, festering, pox-riddled, secondary butthole where his soul should have been.
As much as he pisses me off, I am willing to entertain the possibility. Hell, who knows, maybe there’s even feelings of some kind jammed up there somewhere
Of course, standing behind a tree forever is FOR SURE not going to do her life any good. There’s like, a possibility of his suggestion having a positive outcome? Becoming a part of the landscape forever definitely doesn’t.
Maybe she could go for a happy middle ground, where she doesn’t live behind a tree, but also doesn’t walk back into the dorms like their new stabby god. I feel like it can be done.
There are plenty of ways to encourage Amber to come inside that don’t involve being unpleasant turd.
Dropping a canister of tear gas would have accomplished the same thing here. That doesn’t mean Mike wouldn’t be an ass for taking that route either, even WITH good intentions
ffft, because ruling by fear can’t cause everyone to hate you and assure your quick destruction when they spot you showing any weakness. at least mike pushed her out into the world by being himself, which appears to have been his goal, so I’ll give him points for that.
He knows that when she goes back to her dorms, everyone will be…. SYMPATHETIC YET UNCOMFORTABLE towards her, the ultimate suffering for someone like Amber. That’s the devious plan! Maybe.
I know we’re all surprised by the appearance of Mike at least trying to be helpful, but seriously, this is an old high-school friend here and she just went through a great deal of trauma.
If Mike was here just to mock her he would be stepping down into Actual Monster territory.
What exactly is helpful about telling the girl whose greatest fear is turning into an abusive monster like her father that everyone is scared of her? How does that make anything better?
Well that’s just objectively untrue. Mike is a terrible friend who once in a blue moon stumbles onto success despite that but people only ever focus on that once in a blue moon and not all the other times he makes his “friends” feel terrible about themselves.
*I HAVE THOUGHTS* – big surprise, huh? However, at the moment the thought at the forefront of my mind is about the name “Brannon.” Maybe I missed it in earlier strips, but Brannon is the first name of my male partner! He has spent decades trying to explain to people that his name is NOT a misspelled version of “Brandon.” My partner’s mother maintains that “Brannon” is an old Celtic name and a quick Google search shows me that it may mean “raven” and/or “sorrow.”
Wow, how fucking horrible of Mike, pointing out his friend’s shoddy hiding spot and then encouraging her to walk in with her head held high. What a complete piece of shit he is, pulling something like that.
Yeah, because everyone likes being sarcastically called “genius”, Einstein.
OK, on a more serious manner: Even while there may be some truth in what he’s telling Amber, he clearly is, as is his modus operandi, doing it in the worst way possible, always having to insert an insult somewhere. And there really has never been much evidence (if any) of him doing anything that’s ultimately not for his own amusement in the DoA universe.
He didn’t say this to help Amber. He said it to stir shit. If it somehow ends up helping Amber, that’s by accident.
He’s a piece of shit because he called her her abuser and now he’s telling her to be proud that people will be scared of her when Amber has major anxity relating to both of those things.
A: One instance of good behaviour does not negate a lifetime of being a piece of shit and B: This isn’t even good behaviour this is at best only kinda shitty
A: I never said it did. I’m only pointing out that Mike’s actions in this trip are not wrong. I can admit a character is a shithead while also admitting when said character isn’t currently being as much of a shithead.
B: Granted. I can’t, and have no desire to, argue with this.
Most of Mike’s asshole behavior has to do with showing people a fact that they’re uncomfortable with. Amber doesn’t have that problem here: she’s fully aware of the fact that she’s uncomfortable with.
There’s nothing for Mike to be an asshole to her about. What’s he going to do? Mock her for knifing someone? He’s probably done that to death over the last few years. What’s the point?
Ok, people are really happy about Mike showing up for once, but there’s one thing that makes me disagree with that sentiment. And it’s called bottom speech-bubble panel 3. That is what a shoulder devil would say in a situation like this. Hell, it sounds a little bit like a Sith trying to turn a force user to the dark side. Because what he’s essentially saying is “Bask in their fear, let it feed you. Weaponize their fear, make them afraid to ever cross you.” Which in turn reminds me of a quote by either Emperor Tiberius or his grandnephew, adopted son, and successor Emperor Caligula. I forget which one said it. Anyways, the quote in question is “Let them hate us, so long as they fear us.” And that is essentially what Mike is saying to Amber, “What they think about you doesn’t matter so long as they’re afraid of you”. Jesus but what he’s saying here is creepy.
True. His advice is, on the face of it, “make the most of being feared”.
But will any woman it that dorm – with the possible exception of Dorothy who saw it happen – fear her? If you didn’t watch it happen, it is easy to see it as a glorious deed.
By playing to her convictions he got her to move and see what is real.
This is pure manipulation and we are still trying to guess if his intentions are honorable or if he just takes every opportunity to do so, no matter what happens.
Amber walks, sees Danny and Joe and is the only person who could tell Danny to drop the hat and ukulele whom he would listen to! Objective achieved.
Danny also asks Amber to track down whoever leaked the ‘To Do List’, forcing the Amber and Amazi-Girl personae to work closely together to a common goal, forcing them to greater integration. Objective achieved.
Stacy is so grateful for getting Amber to stop hiding that she sleeps with him without him even having to spend the traditional nickel. Objective achieved. Before anyone complains against this one, I’ve got a feeling that there may be a teenage crush at work in Mike for this one.
Y’know, I’m honestly wondering if this is just something Mike does with some people: Advocate their worst fears or the most repellent aspect of their self-images and thus force them to deny it and work to overcome it just to prove him wrong. It’s hard to tell with Mike because his behaviour is so bizarre that his ultimate motives are unreadable sometimes.
However, in this case, I’m also wondering if he’s doing this either as a favour to Stacy or because she’s paid him off somehow!
Actually, I think it tells us that the Walkyverse Mike genuinely believed himself a monster and having a girlfriend who physically and verbally abused him fit in that self-image and was thus welcome.
I think it’s at least partly because he’s standing next to Amber and her mom who are both quite short, we mostly see mike next to Ethan who’s just insanely tall
And this is why Mike is awesome. Yes he acts like an ass, but it’s these gems (and the other developments he’s had in the other series) that make him the kind of ass I come back too and cheer on~.
Holy fuck, was that Mike being constructive? Without some backhanded way of being hurtful or making things worse? I…don’t know how to interpret that. Where’s the catch
From everything I’ve seen, Mike is a force of neutrality. When the comic universe gets too out of whack in one way or another, he knocks it back the other way.
There doesn’t appear to be a catch. At face value, Mike is simply encouraging Amber to come out from behind the tree. Sure, she says she’s only doing it to get away from him, but who wants to admit when an asshole is actually right?
Mike is the worst and watching people go through the mental gymnastics to vindicate his behaviour is horrifying. I’m sick to death of white dudes getting a pass for being horribly cruel assholes because “they’re just telling it like it is.”
While saying the truth can be done with ulterior purpose (even to hurt others), saying that Mike is a “horribly cruel asshole” is, to me, an exaggeration. Mike is often polite, while uncaring, and there’s infinite ways he could be more hurtful if this was all he wanted to do.
It’s hard to check the context of every claim without the links but:
For what I remember, he implied Amber she could become an abuser (what is more probable than the other possibilty discussed, that was becoming a pushover, Amber has issues); and about Ethan I would wait to see how things develop.
If I’m not mistaken, the context was proposed by Amber herself. She said she was afraid to become like her parents, and cited flaws of her mother that she didnt have, Mike pointed that between her parents, her mother was the one parent she had least chance to become.
Also, Amber is probably more like Blaine than her mother.
Amber was already acting like an abuser. We actually don’t know his real motives for doing anything as they’re rarely explained with the few times he does explain them they tend to be completely different than was assumed.
Granted he’s still a massive asshole and chooses to do whatever good he does in the nastiest way he can.
And there was the part where she admitted she dated Danny because she could control him. And the part where she was actually controlling him, dictating rules for their relationship, not all of which she bothered to tell him about or ever explained and punished him whenever he broke one of them by either making him feel guilty or spewing verbal insults at him (yes, she didn’t mean to snap, yes she was sorry, no that changes nothing). And there was how she was treating Ethan much the same way (yes it would be annoying to find out that Ethan had crawled back into the closet after all they’d been through but it doesn’t justify her screaming at him, flipping the table he was at or guiltiung him for not doing what she wanted him to, she was making his life all about her)
Just because Amber is the victim of a shithole father does not mean she can’t have developed those tendencies herself. Yes, she’s resisting them when she becomes aware of them, but they’re still there.
But Amber’s “nice” friends let her harm herself constantly.
Amber’s “nice” friends allow her to consistently engage in self-harm and really unusual illegal activity.
Ethan’s “nice” friends let him fall back on self-denial, while Mike forces him to confront his gayness WITHOUT outing him. Or maybe he just really wants to fuck Ethan. His motivations are so opaque there.
Was he slut-shaming Sal? When?
Was he slut-shaming Dorothy? When?
Without going back through the archives, Mike pretty openly doesn’t actually care about whether or not people have sex, and neither Sal nor Dorothy is particularly ashamed of their sexuality, and he seems to know that. Simply pointing out that people are having sex isn’t slut-shaming.
Mike’s an asshole and I personally wouldn’t want to hang out with him, and I don’t think he’s a magic dickhole who solves problems with the power of being an inconsiderate prick, but the actual results of his actions don’t seem much worse than the other character’s benign neglect.
You know your friend is cutting. Or is addicted to painkillers. Or regularly patrols your campus, fistfighting strangers over misdemeanors. If you know about that, and don’t do anything to stop it, you’re “letting” them do it.
Amber’s nice friends try to stop her from tearing herself down by trying to build her up and being supportive.
Amber’s nice friends don’t tell her she’s already becoming her abusive father. Instead, they discourage those harmful thoughts and assure her that she is both loved and deserving of love.
Amber’s nice friends are grateful she risked her life to save Becky’s, and later Dorothy and Joyce’s.
Ethan’s nice friends respected that the decision about when, where and how Ethan came it was NOT theirs to make, and instead chose support and gentle encouragement.
Oh and my favorite, Mike mocking Billie for her relationship with Ruth, to her best friend, the morning after Ruth was hospitalized and they learned that the two of them were suicidal:
Especially since they often aren’t. Assholes who “tell it like it is” tend to on average be wrapped up in conspiracy theories that support systems of dominance and oppression and are often openly hostile to new information, especially information that would make them feel bad about their actions.
Like, fuck, Trump is the poster child of “asshole who tells it like it is” and he’s a complete mark for every white supremacist fairy tale possible and believes Alex Jones is a valuable source of information about how the world works.
And it makes sense. When you’re being an asshole deliberately, you are shutting your heart off to your empathy and end up having to invent justifications for it. Whereas a person who cares about people and wants to do right by them is much more likely to extend that empathy and want to do the unglamorous actions of listening to people, seeing where they are and what they are dealing with, and finding the right way to help and support them.
Like, for all people cling to this myth that hackneyed edgelords are providing some “key psychological service”, the reality is they are frequently what creates and deepens PTSD and a valuable psychologist, one who aids in the mental recovery or survival of an individual, tends to be one who is kind, warm, and caring.
It’s why for all the stories of asshole dads sharing “tough love” stories, so few of their children are happy to think fondly on those abusive times.
I honestly still can’t figure out if Alex Jones is for real or if he’s just some far-right version of Stephen Colbert. “The government is secretly poisoning your kids’ juice boxes with chemicals that will turn them gay in order to suppress population growth” is not the kind of claim I’m inclined to take seriously.
According to his own testimony at his child custody hearing, he’s just “playing a character”
But considering how very seriously his audience takes him, and the amount of harm done by the conspiracy theories he pushes, that would make him an even worse person
I’ve got no idea whether Alex Jones actually believes the crap he spews or whether he’s just riding the gravy train. He’s nothing like Colbert though. Colbert was openly parodying his character for laughs. The audience was in on the joke, as you could tell by all the laughter and by it being billed as a comedy act.
The best that can be said for Jones is that he’s just stirring up the crazies and spreading dangerous lies for money. Which isn’t much better than doing it for the cause or out of true belief.
What does it have to do with “white dudes”? Being an asshole, is usually not tied to your appearance (race or gender). And irl, I frankly won’t give any asshole I meet a pass. I’ve met my fair share of those.
In any case, people saying “People SAY I’m an asshole, because I’m very honest” is a red flag, a redder one than people telling you “I am an asshole”, at least in my experience.
I couldn’t say how I’d react to a MIKE irl, because I honestly don’t think someone like Mike exists (this cartoonish kind of evil).
You’d be unpleasantly surprised at how many Mikes exist out there. Being openly trans or mentally ill on the internets is like being a living beacon for the fuckers.
recently Willis introduced a WoC whose dialogue was secretly based on mike’s. There were still people defending her.. abrasiveness… but iirc the comments section leaned much more towards condemning it.
and yeah, people like mike exist. he reminds me of several guys from my high school.
Mike has his moments, however few they may be, where his blunt asshole-ish ways can be redeeming. I can see if this was Dorothy he was doing that to, knowing she’s going to therapy about the incident (He’s an ass but he’s not an irredeemable scumbag) but here he’s encouraging Amber to take pride in her actions. Yes, they were violent and WE know that she’s got a metric shit-ton of baggage that needs unpacking, but avoiding the reality of it all isn’t going to help her either. Mike here is acting as a catalyst that she’ll need in order to take the first steps to face her actions. Yeah, he can be an asshole, but sometimes, those people can be the best solution to the worst situation.
The one person most afraid of Amber is Amber. She created an alter-ego just to channel and control what she felt were the worst impulses. Other women in the dorm might regard her as some kind of hero.
Precisely; what Amber desperately needs is an excuse to more integrate her two (possibly three) conflicting personae. This incident could be what she needs to do so.
With apologies to all my English teachers, and to The Seekers.
(to the tune of Georgy Girl)
Hey there, Stabby Girl.
Why’re you trying to hide behind a tree?
Don’t you know the that everyone one will see
the craziness there, inside you?
Hey there, Stabby Girl.
Why do all the boys just slink away?
Could it be they’ll never want to play
with maniacs, just like you?
You’re always cutting chopping but never stopping to cry.
So stick that roofie boy in the eye, a little bit.
Hey there, Stabby Girl.
There’s another Stabby deep inside.
Let her fly that freak flag high, and oh what a change there’d be,
the world would see, a new Stabby Girl!
*Mike continues to harass a traumatized abuse victim and she walks away of her own admission while loudly acknowledging that what he said was bullshit*
Considering that Amber and Mike are friends, and this is how their interactions often look like, how do you distinguish between harassment and a conversation?
First: four years ago is some days or weeks on DOA time. You know this and used DOA very slow passage of time to strengthen your point in a non-relevant way.
Second: you are assuming that every interaction between the main cast is documented in the comic. Days pass, people cross with each other in the halls, go back to the dorms where another character is, etc.. not every interaction is shown.
If Willis hasn’t had the two characters interact in four years I’d say that means something. You can’t use some out of comic knowledge and not others. Also you seem to be deliberately ignoring Spencer’s main point about Mike’s treatment of Amber while simultaneously accusing them of arguing dishonestly. That’s rather hypocritical.
I already given my opinion about his main point: there’s no proof that Amber don’t consider Mike a friend anymore, the way he treats her seems to be allowed in their friendship.
Mike doesn’t have friends. He has people he’s willing to stand next to.
Is there actually any indication she ever considered him a friend, much less still does? Has she said so? Does she go talk to him? Do they do things together?
The only interaction I know of in that time is when he went creeper on Amazi-Girl. She’s got good reason to keep him stuffed in her mental freezer and, as Fart Captor says, to get away from his bullshit whenever it comes near her.
We walked away from that last panel of Amber playing and inner slash reel/lusting for Mike’s abs with VERY different interpretations. She clearly sees Mike for the asshole he is, but I dunno. She isn’t denying he’s a friend or saying Ethan should have nothing to do with him, or even saying *she* would have nothing to do with him.
Finding him physically attractive has absolutely no bearing on whethershe sees him as a friend, or likes him at all. I might think Mary is pretty, but that doesn’t at all stop me from wanting her to be fired into the sun.
When Ethan questions his decision not to pick Mike as a roommate, Amber is incredulous, and reinforces the decision. When Ethan gets all wistful about high school, Amber immediately becomes suspicious that Mike is being manipulative. It seems very, very clear that she doesn’t trust or like Mike at ALL.
She also hasn’t even ONCE been shown to seek out Mike’s company like she does Ethan’s or Danny’s. Even She just seems to tolerate him when he happens to be there.
Amber did know that Mike is Mike since before the starting of the comic. Ethan says the three are friends at some moment, and is not corrected. I do not believe Mike was different before, and I think that Amber simply accepts Mike for the asshole he is.
Eh, finding someone pretty is different from the kind of switched on Amber is conveying there. Most people do factor in personality to attraction-which-is-more-than-just-aesthetic. But it’s a fair point that that is not necessarily true.
Amber doesn’t immediately become suspicious. She immediately questions whether queer is a label that can apply to Mike. Then she becomes suspicious of why ETHAN is getting all whistful and makes the logical conclusion that Mike is being nice to him to get sex. I don’t get the sense that her relationship with MIke is at all changed since we first see them interact.
Btw Sorry for typos my phone is being a real bongo all of a sudden.
I agree that both Amber and Ethan “accept Mike for the asshole he is”, but I think that even if Amber hasn’t already decided that putting up with Mike’s shit isn’t worth it, she’s getting there.
I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that BOTH of Mike’s oldest “friends” have serious self-esteem issues. Amber’s tendency to believe she doesn’t deserve to have good people in her life is no doubt a big part of why she puts up with Mike to the extent that she does.
@JQuire:
The fact that Amber strongly advising Ethan against hooking up with Mike seems like a solid indication personality does not factor into her opinion that Mike is hot.
I don’t see how any of her suspicion is directed at Ethan. She reacted to what Ethan was telling her, but because the way Ethan was talking about Mike made her mind jump straight to “Mike is up to something manipulative and Ethan is falling for it”. She worried about Ethan there. No doubt this isn’t the first time he’s pulled crap like that
And on that note, why would her relationship with Mike need to have changed? When has Amber ever expressed positive feelings towards Mike? Both Ethan and Amber have a say in whether Mike is still their friend, and both seem to be growing apart from him
@ Fart Cap
Amber doesn’t advise Ethan against hooking up with Mike, though. To the contrary she says ‘hell no’ to the idea that hooking up with him would be an absolute negative. Then the conversation gets cut off.
What she says that Ethan should not have been roommates with him, which is a related but separate train of thought.
I say that she is suspicious towards Ethan because she has a moment of ‘wait a minute, why are you re-thinking your decision about being roommates with Mike? and why is his being queer matter?’ From there she jumps to the (correct) conclusion and becomes suspicious of Mike.
As far as seeing a change, and why that’s relevant:
You originally said this strip is clear evidence that Amber is no longer friends with Mike. When they start out the comic they are at least nominally friends, no change in the dynamics between start and now means that the attitude shown here is not probative of the change from friends to ‘no longer interested in dealing with this person at all’.
You’re reacting this strongly over people reading a fictional character. Fiction is open to interpretation. People see the same text differently from how you do not because they’re horrible monsters, but because they have different backgrounds, different experiences, and different… everything else, really. I’m sorry your own experiences with people make you react this strongly to Mike’s behavior in the comic, but please try not to shame other people for reacting as they do. That would be a Mike thing to do.
You’ll notice that at no time did I give my own reading of Mike’s character above. For the record, I think he wants to be the guy who is a dick for the good of others, but he’s an idiot kid who hasn’t developed the finesse to pull that off, so he’s just an asshole.
Fictional characters and stories are abstractions of real human situations. If they are well written (e.g. Willis) people reading them will react to the situations abstracted therein.
I should probably just create a keyboard macro so I can say that every time someone goes all; “Hey, chill out, they’re just fictional characters!” (or any variation thereof)
Of course they are, and of course these storylines are going to upset those of us in the audience.
But there’s a difference between being furious at Mike because he reminds you of something you experienced in real life — perfectly understandable — and being furious at other people for liking Mike, which you then take out on those other people by responding nastily to every single thing they say, no matter how innocuous, about liking him.
Like. Person A is mad because they feel like liking Mike and excusing his behavior could possibly lead to excusing similar behavior in real life — while at the same time being actively mean to Person B themselves. They’re literally being an asshole because they think liking an asshole hypothetically makes Person B more likely to be an asshole. That’s some cognitive dissonance.
Also, the argument that people always react to fiction the _same way_ they react to reality is just… very flawed. That’s the same logic that has been used to try to ban violent movies/books/video games. Fiction has the ability to show us viewpoints we hadn’t previously considered, and if we trust the narrative too much and fail to think critically it can sell us propaganda. But the same person who laughs at slapstick comedy in a movie can still be horrified if they see a real person, say, step on a rake and smack themselves in the face.
People can and do enjoy characters like Mike without endorsing real-world assholery, and they can also condemn characters like Mike while being real-world assholes themselves to people they think deserve it.
Right. And I would neither claim nor try to defend anyone who tried to claim that being upset at Mike’s behavior because of their own life experience is wrong. Fiction is a powerful powerful thing and downplaying that would be incredonly wrong of me.
What I was saying is that letting that reaction color your views and treatment of other people, who also react to fiction differently but for entirely the same reasons, probably means that you need to step back. We’re all mostly human, and it’s wise to try not to forget that.
What bothers me at least isn’t people liking Mike, or even thinking he’s trying to help here. Similar to how I feel about Joe, what bothers me is when people minimize or ignore the very real harm behavior like his causes.
It’s specifically the suggestions that if Mike’s intent is to “make people confront harsh truths / their hypocrisy / demons”, that this would in any way be a good thing. Even ignoring the many cases of Mike mistreating his friends where it is clearly not the case, even ignoring how often he’s given credit for things which happened in spite of him, not because of him, the ends do not justify the means.
Thinking you know what’s best for other people does not give you the right to treat them the way Mike does. It’s possible Mike isn’t a monster. It’s possible he means well. It’s possible he’s a fairly typical teenage troll who thinks he’s edgy as fuck, but will eventually grow out of it.
It’s okay to like him. Even if it’s not just as a character. He’s still an asshole who treats his friends like crap most of the time.
Similarly, what bothers me about the reaction to people who like Mike isn’t the disagreement, but the huge buckets of vitriol being dumped on real people for liking a fictional character.
There is definitely a thread in these comment sections where liking Bad Characters makes you, the actual human being, a Bad Person, and therefore makes being incredibly nasty to you justified behavior. :\
wait, what buckets of vitriol? all I remember seeing is Spencer losing his temper, Emily being Emily, and a few other people being exasperated and/or confused.
…okay, Spencer lost his temper several times. that’s not great, but is it really so bad as to count as “incredibly nasty”? (honest question, I’m trying to calibrate my sense of what’s reasonable here)
I agree with Fart Captor that it’s important not to minimise or encourage behaviour like Mike’s. Partly because it’s easy for me to forget that it’s harmful in RL, and I want to get better at explaining what’s wrong with it.
I also agree that it’s not okay to be nasty to people, and nobody’s automatically a Bad Person for having views that lead to harm.
I really don’t understand you enough to say something constructive. like, it annoys me that 99% of your comments seem to be very negative, and it probably isn’t good for your mental health either?
I mean I just don’t have much to SAY when I’m happy about things so it’s less a case of me being always upset and more I only bother to speak up when I’m frustrated with something in order to vent those feelings.
hmm. I worry about whether I do that myself; righteous anger has a way of getting past my comment anxiety much better than happiness. (only online, though.) I’ve been making an effort lately to say nice things even when they seem a bit redundant. (nice things about *other* people, that is. still not comfortable saying nice things about myself. 😛 )
so, mostly you’re just reminding me of my own insecurities 🙂 but it might be nice to see happy-emily sometimes and not just frustrated-emily.
Happy-emily is like incapable of interesting or complex thought. Like it would literally just be dozens of comments that read “I like this it is a good thing.”
I guess, I don’t see a lot of people actually excusing behavior like Mike’s; I’ve mostly seen fans of Mike, when confronted, immediately say, “Oh, I’d probably hate him if I knew him in real life.”
As for buckets of vitriol… for Mike, I think it’s only a couple of people consistently attacking his fans (“stalwart people fighting the good fight”, as another person put it), because, for whatever reason, he has a lot of fans… but it’s part of a larger pattern for me which I would like to see just… stop.
*Comments don’t immediately boo and hiss and scream over Mike’s very presence* “Fuck you people! You people are the fucking worst!” This level of vitriol seems a tad excessive, in this particular context.
Like, nobody’s saying Mike can do no wrong (not seriously, anyway). We’re just pointing out that, in this specific strip, he’s done nothing wrong. Here’s all he did, so far:
He backed up Stacy when she told him about her name change, which I think you’d have to deliberately misinterpret to see as a bad thing, seeing as her ex-husband is a complete shitheel, and she has no reason not to drop his name.
He points out that Amber’s hiding spot is pretty flimsy, which it is. Sure, he said it in an abrasive way, but since when is sarcastically calling a friend “genius” a genuine insult?
He tells Amber to own the newfound fear from the people inside, which actually seems to work, since she, y’know, decides to go in. I’d personally find that very encouraging, and would most likely listen to him.
So, please, feel free to explain how anything Mike’s done in this strip is in any way wrong or harmful. And I stress that I mean this strip, because I’m well aware that he’s generally a complete tool. Funny thing, that; I can acknowledge that a character is an asshole, while still recognising the times they’re not doing something assholish.
“She loudly acknowledged what he said was bullshit.”
Bear in mind that nearly everything Amber does is deeply irrational. Speaking as someone with even just moderate anxiety, when I’m feeling anxious I don’t want to hear solutions, EVEN IF THEY’D ACTUALLY HELP. Even if I act on a helpful solution, I will usually need to regulate my emotions before I can honestly express gratitude. Most anxious people I know apologize copiously after an anxiety attack, because they know that the anxiety made them act irrationally.
And before you get to worked up about the “irrational” comment… Amber has a separate identity that she uses to dissociate from her actions. An identity she uses to commit violence and self-harm.
The narrative complicates her use of violence and risk-seeking behavior by framing her actions as noble, but much like Batman or Hellboy, it’s pretty clear “violence” is her motivating force and “noble” is kind of a convenient side-effect.
And Mike being sort of a dick to her is small potatoes compared to her treatment by people like Dorothy or Danny, who conceal her identity even after she was HIT BY A CAR. Was proper medical treatment ever administered after that? I don’t remember.
I’m gonna have to go ahead and get upset about that “irrational” comment all the same.
You’re completely denying that Amber has any agency here. Her actions during the car chase may have been reckless, but also incredibly selfless. Calling that merely a “side-effect” is pure garbage. She wasn’t having a break with reality. She wasn’t hallucinating, overcome with rage or even having a panic attack. She was in control of her actions and absolutely deserves credit for them.
When she’s having a panic attack she’s irrational. Her anxiety is irrational. That doesn’t make every decision she makes irrational. Nor does disassociation.
Calling Danny and Dorothy’s behavior worse than Mike’s is also bizarre. Especially since Danny didn’t even know about the car crash until long after when Sal told him about it. Which prompted him to go talk to AG, and try to get her not to take those kinds of risks.
It’s also not as if AG actually TOLD anyone that she got hurt. She left the scene by herself and was up and walking around just fine the next time either of them saw her. No reason for them to assume any medical attention was needed.
I was strongly debating whether or not I wanted to give the comments thread a full miss today for this reason. Ugh, if only our society wasn’t so hung-up on celebrating amoral edgelords so long as they are cis and white and male.
I really need to just nope out on the comments on any strip involving Mike because it’s invariably the same frantic attempts to pretend he’s not an awful person.
thoughts inspired by the name of this page – O’Malley
* Bam Bam Bam Crash *
“Okay, Blond Boy, where’s Stabby?”
“She’s not behind this tree.”
“Oho, she’s behind that tree, eh?”
“If she were behind this tree, would I pour gasoline all over it and toss a lighted match at it?”
Hm. I’m glad there are a few stalwart people fighting the good fight against the greater tide of commenters sucking Mike’s dick.
Like, I liked Mike in Shortpacked, but as was said in like, comment chain#2, DoA mike is not Shortpacked Mike. Mike’s only been in 152 strips so far, less than any other “main cast” member except Carla, and the only reason we know more about Carla’s intentions than Mike is because she is extremely direct while he is extremely obtuse. This comic has not given us an in-depth look at Mike and his intentions and why he is the way he is, and until it does, every comment about whether his unrepentant shitholery has some kind of benevolent motivation is just speculation.
Granted most people preface their Mike praise with some sort of “maybe,” and I appreciate that, but I’ll never understand how anyone can be convinced Mike in DoA is some kind of hero. Watching folks make “he’s an asshole for the greater good” comments sort of helps me understand how we ended up with President Trump.
Well while I mostly agree with you here, we should acknowledge that shortpacked Mike was actually a good guy asshole, and that likely influences people’s perception of this Mike, since all the characters look the same and Mike has the same mannerisms as before, it leads to the conclusion that the underlying personality traits are the same as well. This is a logical fallacy of course, but it is understandable why people would see Mike’s assholery yield positive results and make that connection
For a sec I thought Willis was echoing that time in another universe when Amber gets told that she should walk in like she owns the place. It’s not all that similar though, just a coincidence.
Mm. First up, the regression on Amber is heart-breaking. The way she’s back to being completely consumed by her fear, hiding behind tall objects like in the gas station.
That incident fucked with her and while she is not in jail, the fact that Stacey is back here with her trying to support and calm her means things are not going okay in her head and I’m worried and terrified and excited all at the same time to see how this ends up interacting with her likely dissociative disorder.
Second, Mike… Here’s the thing about Mike. He’s an edgelord. And like many edgelords, he only knows how to punch down and he views mental health crises as weaknesses one can rationally think their way out of.
This may in fact be the first time in comic where his dickery “helped” someone, but it’s worth noting how it did so by treating Amber’s anxiety, panic attack, and coping behavior as absolute garbage and expecting neurotypical behavior from her automagically.
And it makes the fact that he’s “befriended” two people with deep mental health problems and has actively made them worse or treated them like something one just “pulls oneself up by their bootstraps” over. And that’s fucking super harmful to mentally ill people.
Like, being mentally ill, I have no shortage of assholes acting like I should just “power” my way through a depression spiral or a PTSD fueled panic attack, or a bad episode of derealization so that I can return to performing neurotypicality for their benefit. And no shortage of assholes who like to come after me, because they view that as a thing that makes me a soft target to fuck with, as someone weak.
And the reality is, as much as my brain tries to agree with them, the raw facts show I am not weak. That what I’ve “powered through” would have reduced any of them to tears. I’m seeing it a lot here on my final week teaching at my current job, dealing with PTSD and derealization and having to explain to my bosses that this isn’t my first rodeo with PTSD and teaching through it.
And the same is true of Amber. Mike is presenting a fiction here. That he is strong and Amber is weak because of her fear, her anxiety, and her PTSD. That her doing a desperate coping strategy to try and feel more safe and build up to doing a thing that is really hard for her is somehow her being a fragile ignorant snowflake who doesn’t even understand how trees work.
And it’s kind of a bit horrifying.
And well, not uncommon. People don’t like seeing “crazy” people revealing their crazy in public. People want us to always be performing for them so they can pretend that things like PTSD don’t have deep and abiding effects on one’s life, that we are all just weak, not strong like them and could be better if we bought some overpriced herbs from Whole Foods that was on Oprah one time.
Because otherwise, they’d have to consider what a mess they’d be in if they were ever traumatized. If they had to go through half the shit we do.
And Mike, even when he’s “helping” is the emblem of that.
I wonder if Mike’s fiction is a coping mechanism too? one that works (so far) for him, but backfires badly for many other people. with loads of collateral damage either way.
so, a really shitty inappropriate coping mechanism.
I wouldn’t be surprised. Most edgelord antics are a coping mechanism and mask in one way or another. A means of bypassing feeling vulnerable or scared or “weak”.
You aren’t wrong but I know sometimes I need a good kick in the ass to keep from giving up. Sometimes just being strong all the time, doesn’t help and jerks like Mike pissing me off by spout bs end up giving the boost I need to make the necessary wrong. I also find they are necessarily always wrong they might be incapable of seeing the big picture but they can point out the more inconvenient trees in their own irritating way.
That’s fair. Though I suppose for me, I do enough of the kicking my ass that I don’t really need to have an external source for it. And Amber, from what we’ve seen of her internal world seems the same on that account at least.
some people benefit from a kick in the ass. others just end up more injured. some people it varies.
what’s not okay is acting like a kick in the ass is harmless and risk-free, or that one has the authority to decide for someone else that it’s what they need.
Panel 1: Again, as I noted above, Amber knows that this isn’t real safety, but a psychological desperate grasp at a faux security and you know what? Sometimes that little bit can help make sure you get home after a bad panic attack. It’s a means of resetting and building back up your spoons to continue forward on something really hard and this?
Think how hard this type of return home for Ruth was and for Amber? It’s even worse. Because this was a part of her “crazy” she didn’t want anyone to ever see, didn’t want to even have in her. And so a positive comment might end up hurting as much as a negative one would. Because what they are praising would be something she wished she never had.
And Mike comes in to that and interferes with that process and acts like Amber’s being ignorant about the reality that is around her rather than trying to deal with it and her mental illness as best she can in the moment.
And the worst part is her plaintive “not now”. I’ve been in that point where I’m out of spoons and holding on by my fingernails and some asshole is trying to pick a fight with me over me being trans or whatnot and I’m just “not now”, not even having the energy to defend myself, fight back, or even acknowledge.
And the thing about those states is well, they are vulnerable moments. When I’m drained, I’m drained and so a nasty comment can get right in through my worn armor and give a good jab to my insecurities and traumas. I’m at my most able to be hurt in those moments and here is where Mike appears and refuses to leave.
And that needs focus. Even though she’s told him she doesn’t have the energy to deal with him, he refuses to leave, he continues to be the same asshole that he is, he continues to undermine her mental health. And it’s that entitlement to her time and energy that makes him fucking dangerous.
Like, folks, if a mentally ill person says that they don’t have the energy for something at the moment, the very worst thing you could do is try to force them into it “for their own good”.
Panel 2: It might just be me, but I’m really chilled by this panel. Like, the way he’s so polite and respectful to authority while being cruel and unthinking to peers and the fast way he uses politeness to make Amber’s potential protestations to her actions seem overwrought is stirring up so much inside me.
Because well… this is shit abusers do all the fucking time. Being nice to the cops and then gaslighting you in private, and weaponizing even family against you. Like, how could you have a problem with X, they’re always so nice when they come over.
I’ve had friends whose abusive partners would make them sit down for a “civil board game night” right after they had punched them in the head repeatedly, so any reaction to that would seem like “ruining everyone’s good time”. And so Mike’s immediate shift into respectful perfect child is chilling to me.
Because it makes me wonder what else he’s capable of.
Yeah, I feel like people go, oh exposure therapy is a thing and so assume someone untrained recreating abusive environments is somehow helping rather than retraumatizing the person. Like, that technique needs to be done by a trained psychologist in a very controlled environment and there’s a lot of pre and aftercare that goes into it and it’s all heavily controlled by the patient’s consent.
ALL the untrained, unlicensed, unrequested “therapy” and “help” that Michael imposes on his friends is at the very least misguided. If he is this astute about his friends’ psyches, he is astute enough to suggest professional support as a useful possibility for those he ostensibly cares about. That he chooses instead to manipulate others is entirely on him.
Panel 2 cont: And you see it in Amber’s face here. He’s using that faux friendliness to ignore her request to leave her alone and it’s freaking her the fuck out. Her face is a mess and she looks ready to break and her anxiety in that moment is completely out of control. She is clinging to a tree, freaking the fuck out, and they are exchanging pleasantries in her space like her feelings don’t matter.
And that’s not a dig on Stacey. Honestly, she’s a super woman for all she’s managed to escape and what she tries to provide in support for her daughter, just noticing the gaps and what Mike is exploiting in social expectations and forms.
Panel 3: So this moment. So like, this moment might be the first time where Mike’s special blend of complete assholery actually “helped” someone. In that she’s up and moving and not hiding.
But it’s worth noting yesterday’s context. She’s not afraid that someone is going to hurt her. She’s afraid she’s going to be an object of fear, that she will be known as the crazy stabby girl and that that will be all she’ll ever be known as again. She’s afraid people will look at her and flinch in terror, like her dad made her flinch in terror every time he yelled.
That’s what she’s scared of. So Mike’s pep talk here? About how everyone fears her and that’s power? Is everything she’s openly terrified. He’s basically going “hey, you know that massive insecurity you are having a panic attack about right now, yeah, it’s 100% true, but hey, it’s okay, because as an amoral edgelord, I’d love to be feared.”
And yes, that gets her moving, but holy fuck is that a fucked thing to say to a person in that space. It’d be like going up to Ruth and going “yeah, Billie and everyone you ever loved will leave you and also you are a worthless failure and deserve to die, anyways, toodleloo”.
And all while he delivers this, he sneers at her mental illness, treating it like a mental incapability rather than a handicap or a hinderence. Like Amber is just not “smart” enough to logic her way out of a desperate coping strategy for a panic attack and needs his wise sage neurotypical help to recognize his neurotypical-centric way of viewing the world is somehow right.
It’s Mike doing the same old shit, but we’re supposed to cheer him because Stacey thanks him and she’s physically moving.
Panel 5: And oof, a parent thanking someone for hitting as cruelly into one’s insecurities as possible? That’s so fucked up. Like, I know Stacey means well and Mike is good at play-acting the good friend and well-mannered boy to her, but oof, way to misread the situation and make things hurt all the more.
And Amber’s line here? I know it’s the jokey ending, but I can’t help but read it straight. Like, yeah, it is better for her to go in and deal with whatever may come than deal with a man knowingly and intentionally messing with her greatest fears and insecurities in the middle of a panic attack. I’ve definitely done what I needed to do to get away from someone making a bad situation worse when I’m in a vulnerable state when I am able.
It does not mean that person who made the situation worse somehow did me a favor because I’m now doing things dangerous to my mental health to get away from them.
And seeing folks cheer Mike for that. I don’t blame them for loving it and having that resonate. But for me, that hurts, which is why I took a while to comment on this one.
Cause yeah, from the other side of the mental health wall, Mike’s actions look WAY different. And that resonates especially close to home as I’ve been limping my way through intense PTSD episodes this last week.
Again, on that last bit, that’s my shit and I own that and I wouldn’t want people to feel bad for going “woo Mike” on this one, just trying to explain where I’m coming from on this.
aaand now I’m making connections between this and some stuff I wrote to myself yesterday. Like, yes, she got moving, but we can’t see what that *cost* her. We don’t know how close to that ledge she really was.
and “hey, you know that massive insecurity you are having a panic attack about right now, yeah, it’s 100% true” is the message my therapist unintentionally delivered. like, she’s usually a great therapist, and I expect we’ll sort it out soon, but that was a hell of a mistake.
and still my first reaction to the comic was “lol, that’s our mike”. hmm. either this stuff is easy to miss or I have a blind spot there.
I think one of the reasons why I like* Mike’s actions in this strip is that I don’t read him as saying “Why are you being a whiny little girl about this? Man up and get in there”, and more that it feels like he’s recontextualizing it.
Her anxiety felt like she was nervous about being seen as weird and scary, and Mike’s saying “you’re awesome and scary”. Mike tends to have good instincts about how people act and react to things, after all, he’d probably make a pretty good counselor if he learned how to give a shit about being nice to people.
There’s also the aspect that… he’s treating her like normal. Sure, it’s his normal, aka “biggest possible jerk on campus”, but it’s a normal that Amber’s used to, it could help her feel more normal about herself.
*: Mike is a character that’d only really work well in a strip-a-day comic context, where punchlines need to be had and sometimes plots can happen fast. If I knew him IRL, I’d want nothing to do with him, and I’d find this sort of shit ugly, but in the context of a comic strip, he comes off differently, I guess.
Problem is that what he’s trying to normalise is his own dysfunction, and it’s at her cost. Creating more Mikes proves how right Mike is in his broken savage hostile mind, while damaging people who would’ve been better off without having to deal with him while going through tough times.
I like Mike. He’s a fun character.
(And I actually really like the Own It part.)
(Note: I like the fictional character Mike because I know he is fictional, I do not want a real person to be this mean to real people, in case you were actually wondering.
I always thought this was kind of obvious, but in case it’s not, I wanted to clarify. I also think this goes for everyone else who actually likes Mike as a character.)
I was going to also comment on her clothes, but was initially hesitant because I didn’t want to seem like I was objectifying her. Now that you’ve said it, however (others may have also, but I didn’t notice)…
huh. to me, the colours on the shirt look awful, so much that I actually cringed when I first saw it. maybe I just hate orange? or maybe my brain has gotten too critical of clothes in general – I was feeling awful about all the bright colours I like to wear a few weeks ago, and then a friend complimented me on… something clothing-related… so I feel like I need to recalibrate. Or just stop caring what people think of what I wear. but then how do I decide what to wear? silly brain…
I actually kinda agree about the colors. They’re a bit too lightly shaded for me however, not too brightly colored. Mind I’m not a good one for clothing choices, I have a nearly monochrome wardrobe…
Honestly, in support of that, I kind of like Mike as a villain, kind of like how I like Mary as a villain. Like both of those people are awful awful people who do horrible upsetting stuff, but as characters and as foils to the other characters, they have a lot of power. And both say things about the cultures that produce them and how those real life communities treat specific people*.
*Edgelord culture vs folks with mental health, especially those with PTSD and triggers; Fundamentalist Evangelical culture vs queer folks and those insufficiently hateful towards non-christians.
Again, I honestly don’t think people like Mike or Mary exist irl. They’re both so cartoonishly evil. I just don’t think it’s possible for an actual person to be like that.
I mean, as in, that they don’t seem to “take off” from just being evil. Which I REALLY don’t think people are like. Nobody is always the same. People are sad, angry, happy, envious, but never just the one thing or only the negative things. Mary is less of a cartoon-villain than Mike. Mike does ALL he does (visible in this comic) for just the sake of being an asshole, while Mary was shown to have interested besides her narrow viewpoints (drawing, for one).
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Real Life™: now 100% more tolerable than Mike’s Bullshit
I wonder if that’s the point for Mike?
He acts like an insufferable ass and people realize how much better life is when he isn’t around.
that totally seems to be his effect. whether it’s intentional- he seems to savvy for it not to be. idk.
Like, he’s chaotic evil, but realises that if he’s *utilitarian* good there’s not enough reason to mount an epic campaign to depose him.
Not Chaotic Evil – those types are 100% self centered.
Most definitely Lawful Evil – the most sinister type – just like lawyers.
I was going to say criminal but lets not be redundant.
That is a baseless generalization about chaotic evil types. Chaotic evil just means no moral compass and no sense of stricture. Not necessarily self-centered.
Mike is Chaotic Neutral with an unpleasant personality. He’s not selfish in the traditional sense, but selfish in the sense that he acts in specific ways to get specific reactions out of people for his own amusement or curiosity, even if such behavior puts himself at a disadvantage or causes bad things to happen to himself. He’s extremely interested in those around him, like he’s doing nothing but running social experiment after social experiment, possibly attempting to shape the world to his own wishes, or just attempting to understand the human condition from behind his pessimistic demeanor.
I’d definitely say he’s chaotic good. Nobody knows his endgame, and they might not like what he’s doing, but he always makes somebody realize something or pushes them to do the right thing. He’s a grade A ass that will fuck your mom for a nickel, but he does it for your own good.
I’d definitely peg Mike as being more Jerkass With A Heart Of Gold/Jerk (flips between the two), as well as being Chaotic Good on the alignometer. 🙂
For the most part that’s the read I get off him as well. Although boy did his “pep talk” with Ethan backfire!
His scheme to seduce Ethan makes me doubt my interpretation of his character though. I desperately want him to be an “ends-justifies-the-means”, trying to get positive results kind of guy but I think we need more time with the character to be sure.
You guys are all off. He is Chaotic Mike.
Frankly, I think this is the first time he gave good honest advice
pretty much what I think
own it
Mike. Best character.
Mike.
Amber’s mother.
Mike. Amber’s mother.
Mike and Amber’s mother.
mike’s adopted!!
Looks like he won’t even need a nickle.
For a nickel.
Beat me to it.
So how long before that Slipshine?
Mike is a dick, but he is pretty cool.
Best character FOREVER.
She’s okay!
ever at your service, but for a nickel
Lucy Van Pelt charges the same for her bullshit, so I guess it’s the industry standard.
The industry needs to keep up with inflation. A nickel in the mid sixties had about the same buying power as 40 cents does today.
…and now Mike and and Stacy are alone. together. hmmmmm.
I hear he’s more into Stacy’s Mom. *Cue Fountains of Wayne.*
How about a Postmodern Jukebox cover instead?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2kOj-GFN8k
Am I the only one who read that as “Pokemon Jukebox”?
Now I’m just imagining a version where it’s all about Ash’s mom.
No, you were not. I did a literal double-take.
Funny you should mention that, they did a cover to the pokemon theme song.
Sung from the perspective of Mimey.
Incidentally, “Mr. Mime” is a strange fucking name for an entire species of creature. Especially since they have a 50/50 gender ratio, in-game.
Yes, it is strange when you think aboutit.
However, so is ‘ladybug’..
Meh… not for me. It’s one of the few songs I’ve never found a cover of too my liking, and I love Bowling For Soup, but:
https://youtu.be/ykPlT2G_HeM
…well, I guess it’s not the worst? (BFS’s version was better live.)
Dammit, wrong to!
THAT’S MY FAVORITE, I love that guy’s voice!!
She is not Joker! \o/
Amber could pull off green hair. Her last name’s O’Malley, gotta be some Irish in there.
I keep forgetting to dye my hair! maybe I’ll do that tomorrow. but… green, or purple?
Half and half?
Purple is always the correct answer. Always.
Green is a strong choice. It’s got plenty of connections to strength and determination. See, for example, the legendary Jason David Frank, the renowned martial artist who grew to fame playing Tommy Oliver in Power Rangers. Both on- and off-screen, he’s a paragon of courage, never giving up, and always doing what you think is right.
Green is also commonly associated with renewal, growth, stability, and good luck. It could help subconsciously reinforce any positive changes you’ve decided to make in your life. There are worse colors to choose, is my point.
I like the half and half idea but that’s a lot more work to keep looking good!
Both are good options. If you have the patience to two-tone it I’d suggest purple/turquoise (perhaps purple at the roots, turquoise at the ends with it mixed in the middle so it blends through.)
Undecided Drazi moment!
Amber’s having none of his shit today. God bless.
Actually….Amber seems to be the only human being on earth that Mike has even an ounce of respect for.
Well, Amber’s the only person Mike is acquainted with (that we know of) that punches people on a regular basis, *and* has stabbed not one, but two people, all without ever getting in trouble with the police.
Without knowing who she was, he just had to tell Amazi-girl how turned on he was when they met.
Big overlap between respect and kink in his case, I kinda suspect.
I wouldn’t put too much stock into him being serious there. Mike is an edgelord who lives to make people uncomfortable. He succeeded in that strip.
I’m not sure if Mike qualifies for edgelord status. He seems to have clear goals to screw with other people in anyway possible while genuinely not caring about how they view him (barring cases like Ethan’s where he’s actively trying to deceive them into believing he cares for a larger emotional impact later on.)
Heck, I don’t think he’s ever mentioned wanting to watch the world burn since his signature line is, “I’m whatever you don’t want me to be.” And the thing about nickels and mothers but we’ll leave that alone for now.
Oh no, I definitely think he was serious about being into it. In Shortpacked’s verse, where Amber and Mike dated and fell in love and got married and had A KID, Mike was definitely shown to be a masochist and they have a lot of good consensual power struggle sex.
white privilege! 😀
Don’t forget her mom. He certainly seems to like them both.
Does he know about her dad’s… um… well, you know?
Considering the “good call” response to “its back to Brannon again” I’d assume so.
He probably/definitely at least witnessed some shittiness and that her dad was an asshole as a childhood friend of hers, but I wouldn’t be surprised for him to know almost everything. Earlier comics have made it seem like she, him, and Ethan were a tight friend group.
Not that I want or need a repeat, but Amber/Mike makes so much more sense based on their dynamic here than it ever did in Shortpacked!
I disagree, at this point. I could see them having the potential to get to that point but right now Amber is too mentally unstable- he would have too much influence over her recovery.
In Shortpacked! it felt to me like a journey of growth and strength that made sense to me, personally.
Please go eat – and then subsequently choke on – your own butt, Mike.
Man, I haven’t approved of something Mike’s said/done since…getting Walky pajama jeans?
I think even that was being mean, since he wanted to make Walky look bad to Dorothy.
It’s surprising to see him actually being helpful, most of the time he’s being an ass.
Mike’s always willing to help, as long as he can do it in the most dickish way possible.
But his assholery IS helpful, much of the time.
How so…
No, it isn’t. This is the first time he’s achieved a positive outcome.
He got Dorothy to stop acting ashamed of her feelings for Walky and just acknowledge it openly. He also challenged Billie and Walky about their attitude towards Joyce, getting Billie at least to admit to wanting her to be back to herself.
And while he was partially responsible for Ethan asking out Joyce his reaction makes it pretty clear he hadn’t planned that- and, I think, that he didn’t approve.
Not saying either interpretation of Mike’s character is right, or wrong. I don’t know what Mike’s motives are. I look forward to finding out though, and I hope the optimists are proven at least partly correct.
Mike gets a bad rap in this comic, largely due to his role in the last universe. He’s also a pretty good egg.
Also, good call, Ms. Brannon.
What? If anything it’s the other way around. People assuming he has hidden noble intentions because that used to be his deal, when really he’s just an asshole like 95% of the time.
Walkyverse Mike had straight up asshole superpowers – he would do something horrible, and via a series of wacky hijinks it would turn out to trigger someone’s character development and have been for the best in the long run. Most of his actions were the kind of cartoonish over the top bastardry you can’t help but admire. He also had a hidden “good” side (when drunk), and was humanized by his relationships with Dina and Amber.
Dumbiverse Mike lives in a more realistic universe. Him being an asshole rarely, if ever, has a positive outcome, and there’s no indication that he’s trying to get one. Most of his actions come off as kind of petty, just making people’s life worse for shits and giggles. We also haven’t seen any side of Mike that’s not more… Mike.
It doesn’t help that Mike is very much a one-dimensional secondary character at the moment, but until he gets more screen time we have to judge him on what we’ve seen. Which, broadly, is “complete dickwaffle.”
Yeah theres no way you’d describe Amber as a bean bag
Agreed; any thickness on Amber’s part is almost certainly solid muscle.
Yeah, but: imagine you’re Joe.
(ick)
Well he did suggest there was quite some similarities between Amber and Dorothy so I’m thinking he rates Amber more than a bean bag (with glasses)
huh, so Mike hides his assholery in front of adults… suddenly I like him less since his jerkiness CAN be turned off and is not his natural state
Do you mean him being polite to Stacy? Maybe I’m bad at judging things, but other than that his behaviour seems pretty standard for him here, and since it’s within Stacy’s earshot, I wouldn’t consider it hidden.
I think it’s more that he’s hiding it from her specifically. Most likely due to knowing what she went through at the hands of Blaine, and actually having enough of a heart to not want to trigger flashbacks.
It says a lot about a person when Mike doesn’t want you to see them in him.
Actually, has Mike ever used Amber’s father as material for his arseholery? I don’t recall…
He did when she pinned him down during the WBDDB investigation.
When A-G did, I mean.
Is there any evidence he knew she was AG at that or any other time?
He did once raise the issue that, if Amber was so concerned with being like her parents (when she worried she’d end up dating an abusive asshole like her mom did), but she consistently dated harmless mild-mannered spine-deficient types like Ethan or Danny, maybe she should be more worried about emulating her dad than her mom… which isn’t UNTRUE but given her massive issues with feeling like she’s doomed to be a horrible violent person, that probably wasn’t great for her. On the other hand, I don’t think there’s any evidence he actually knew that was a thing for her, so much as it was an opportunity for him to contradict someone and make them feel a normal level of bad about themselves.
Basically I don’t know if there’s enough evidence either way to conclusively state if Mike is capable of being not-horrible in this continuity.
well…he’s a freshman, so presumably 18.
The minimum age to drink, (legally), is 21, so..
we have three more years before we get to see Good Mike.
aww. stupid american drinking age. I was looking forward to seeing how that played out in DoA.
then again, Billie and Ruth don’t seem to have any trouble getting access to booze, so maybe we will see drunk mike someday. 🙂
well I mean, I doubt he really cares that much about drinking age. especially if he can use alcohol to bring out the worst in those around him
I assume Mike knows everything until proven otherwise.
I still think his phone has a VPN through the fourth wall. All those d-bags Willis screencaps from comment purgatory? They’re all Mike.
Uhmm when he basically told Amber she’s doomed to turn out like her father?
more like he either likes Stacy or/and relishes the chance to make Amber feel embarassed.
I am also sure he likes Amber but at the same time he wouldn’t lose the chance to make her uncomfortable, because that is what he does.
A side benefit of being an asshole.
You can tell the truth, and people know it is the truth.
That’s actually just straight up why mike is an asshole, he consistently tells people exactly the truths they don’t want to hear.
I do not understand why people are so convinced he is some wise confronter of hard truths. He’s done that maybe a couple times in DoA at most.
It sure as hell wasn’t true when he told Amber she was not merely doomed to be like her abusive shitlord father, but that she already was.
And its not at all clear to me what “truths” are conveyed by his slut-shaming of Dorothy, Sal, and Billie.
Or when he threatened to cause problems for Joyce when she was looking for help getting rid of Toedad and wouldn’t tell him about it.
Or when he decided to try to seduce Ethan just to fuck with his head.
because Shortpacked? like, people don’t want to feel retroactively bad about him and his BS being accepted there?
Maybe I need to read through it again, but I don’t remember him ever coming across as badly as he does here.
I actually enjoyed the dynamic between him and Amber there. He was still a jerk, but he actually had positive qualities and most of the time was merely grumpy. He didn’t seem to deliberately hit people where they were most sensitive like he does here.
Maybe it was just that there, he was mostly being mean to customers, instead of his friends and people he cared about.
that… would seem to support my guess? like, people got attached to the character in Shortpacked, and that carried over, and all interactions here are being seen through rose-tinted glasses?
Yeah Mike is vastly different in DoA. Short of maybe one or two incidents where he’s just being a dick for the sake of it, a lot of his dickitude in SP was intentionally designed to foster other peoples’ personal growth, even if he went to some reprehensible lengths for that sometimes.
Mike in DoA is a teenage edgelord who exists to fuck with people and tear them down, especially if he can use their own personalities against them. Only rarely is that actually helpful to anyone.
Fart Captor – Did you miss the part in Shortpacked where Mike goads Amber into punching him while in an intimate relationship with her SPECIFICALLY to pull up her fears about becoming a domestic abuser?
Probably not, but clearly I had forgotten about it
To be fair…going back and looking at it now, Amber totally deserved it in Shortpacked. I’d forgotten that she was blackmailing Mike into being her boyfriend for, like, months. That whole relationship was just so very fucked up.
I think its more the world that has changed around Mike in DOA, and much like Robin that shift to a more realistic world reveals what an ass he was when the universe isn’t bending over backwards to make his dickishnesss turn out to serve a greater purpose.
Shortpacked Mike reminds me of what Morty says about Rick. “Everything real turns fake. Everything right is wrong. All you know is that you know nothing and he knows everything. And, well…well, he’s not a villain, Summer, but he shouldn’t be your hero. He’s more like a demon or a super f***** up god.”
DOA Mike, on the other hand, is just abusive and abrasive because the universe doesn’t accommodate his awfulness like that anymore. This might be the nicest thing we’ve ever seen Mike do, and since this is just one strip there’s no reason to think this isn’t also aimed at being awful.
Let’s not forget about basically attacking every insecurity of his recently out of the closet queer friend
Even this right here is attacking Amber’s fear of turning into her father.
Well, she does go out of her way to solve problems with violence, has been verbally abusive on multiple occasions, and sees no problem with either of those activities so long as she wears a stupid mask to do them in. Dude has a point
No, he absolutely does not, because those are about as much alike as kiddie pool and the ocean.
Blaine wasn’t just a mean guy with anger problems who shouted a lot an occasionally got violent. He was a completely selfish narcissist with zero empathy for the people around him. He was a man who abused his own wife and daughter – people he is supposed to love and support – physically, verbally, and emotionally. He never struggled with his emotions or felt sorry afterwards, anymore than he cared about who he hurt in the first place. Blaine viewed his own family as property, like a mix of household appliances and decorative trophies. There to make him look better and make his life easier. When those didn’t happen, he got mad, and eventually violent.
Amber is absolutely nothing like her father.
Yes, she has anger management problems and she snaps at people sometimes. But when that happens, the initial spark for her anger was something completely normal, such that only the scale of her reaction was out of line. The loud, rage-filled outbursts are brief, and with the exception of Blaine getting a vicious beating he completely deserved, she has never physically harmed anyone in her rage. There’s shouting and flipped tables, but with a single exception*, no violence. Unlike Blaine, she feels remorse, often apologizing immediately, and seeking to make amends if possible, like she did with Joyce. With Danny she would usually try to do this, until she became convinced the only way to do right by him was to stay away from him (Thanks for that, Mike).
*The one exception being when her dad egged her into stabbing Sal after the robbery, while she was still crying and panicking.
Yes, she’s used violence. Against people committing crimes, and even then, the violence used was measured, and proportionate to what was necessary to stop them. Only people she’s caught committing violent crimes have been shown getting any worse than tackled to stop their escape so that whatever they stole could be recovered.
And while vigilantism is illegal, her most of what she’s done only barely counts as vigilantism, and only because she seeks out those crimes. Civilian bystanders intervening when they witness a crime taking place is generally discouraged by police, but not actually against the law.
Blaine, on the other hand, ended up kidnapping one of Amber’s friends simply because she got him kicked off campus instead of letting him verbally abuse her (or whatever the fuck he planned on doing), in violation of a restraining order. So no, she’s nothing like him there.
Now, when she stalked and attacked Sal and her friends, that was genuinely awful of her. Really doesn’t make her like Blaine. The poor judgement and unhealthy fixation that lead her down that path were still nothing like Blaine’s, though. She was trying to work though a childhood trauma and failing to see how much that had clouded her judgement, and ended up not even being able to go through with it. Again, that’s not to say she did no wrong there, but unlike Blaine, the impetus for it didn’t from come from selfish, vindictive wrath, but a deep-rooted emotional struggle she didn’t know how else to resolve.
Mike is an asshole because he is entertained by the suffering of others. There is no nobler purpose behind it and any benefit that comes from it is incidental at best not the original purpose.
I’ve never seen any indication that he’s ‘entertained’. If anything he seems mildly annoyed and even disgusted.
Mike gives me the impression that he has no time whatsoever for the insecurities of others – particularly when they are rooted in fears that he doesn’t see as well-founded.
Except he sees any social disadvantage caused by oppression or trauma as “not well-founded”. So fearing homophobic violence, dealing with intense anxiety and other mental illness, etc… are all “little things” in his eyes that are perfect little insecurities to make his playground.
Which is what makes him a horrible human being and a common type of douchebag.
Cerberus, I fail to see how any of that is an ‘except’ to my comment and your opinion of Mike is abundantly clear from your 1,200 + Words of original comments.
I apologize for overstepping my bounds.
Don’t worry about it.
I just want to point out that the world did, in fact, not end here. 😉
great, now I’m worrying that I might have said something upsetting when I was trying to say something kind because I worried Cerberus might be upset about having made a non-perfect comment and wanted to make her feel better… 😛
brains are silly. maybe if I just put all my cards on the table then there won’t be recursive worrying.
Hey, Cerberus, I’m sorry for snapping at you. It’s much more to do with where I am today than you, and it wasn’t fair of me.
Cerberus did in fact, goof once — and I called her on it.
The rest of those 1,200+ words will stand as an inspiration to future generations.
Yet again, Mike is the voice of reason. Gott en Himmel!
*Gott im Himmel 😉
Gott och blandat.
God I love Mike. If he and Ethan hook up, Amber is going to explode or go into a fic writing hate-sex coma.
Why would she have to choose one or the other?
I’ve never liked Mike before, but right now I do. And, if only for now, I’m shipping the hell out of him and Mrs. B.
He’s…18….
18 isn’t legal? (Not saying its still not creepy)
He doesn’t appear often enough in DOA to have replaced Walkyverse Mike in my head yet, I guess. I seriously forgot how young he is in this universe. ×-×’
Doesn’t help that Willis’s artstyle has a hard time showing age differences between younger adults.
Pre-Donna-Shortpacked!Mike looks exactly like DoA!Mike.
Doesn’t matter. He’s got a nickel.
Ms.*
Technically once you’ve married you keep the “Mrs,” even if you divorce
Technically the point of Ms. is that you can use it instead of either Mrs or Miss.
True.
And also, she is not Mrs Brennan, who would be the wife or former wife of a Mr Brennan. She is Ms Brennan, a woman who uses the surname Brennan.
She could also choose to be called Ms O’Malley, a woman who uses the surname O’Malley; or Mrs O’Malley, the wife or former wife of Mr O’Malley.
Probably not Miss Brennan – “Miss” used to be common for married women using their maiden name in a professional context (such as acting), but has now been pretty much replaced by Ms.
TECHNICALLY, ‘Mrs’ is only supposed to be used with the husband’s name.
Marital prefixes are stupid.
Yeah that’s agreeable
…that actually sound like pretty solid advice from Mike?
Welcome back Amber. Glad to see she’s is at least physically well.
I wanted to make a joke about Stacy seeming to think Mike was a good and helpful person and then felt bad because he probably is compared to the guy she was married to.
haha ohgod i know like
at least he only says shitty things!! it’s not like he does them!!!
Well, he (clunk) ….
… ok, irony processor just kicked in…
heh, stacy’s initials are B.S.
Other way around.
sometimes when you sign something, you put last name first, then your first name. so for stacy, it would be Brannon, Stacy or B.S.
Ahhhh, in those cases, yes, they would be. Most of the time it’d be SB though.
My sister had a baby just two weeks ago. The first+middle initials were BS.
What makes if worse is that the baby’s middle name is my dead grandma’s name, so I can’t even say anything about it.
This is practically old school Mike: being an an asshole to promote an eventual positive outcome… no matter how many steps it takes in between.
I hardly consider that “old school”. Mike started off as pure dickweed. I’m not even sure if he ever grew to “promote an eventual positive outcome”.
Eh, Mike’s assholery definitely has a method to it, and there’s always a silver lining to the situations he creates. I don’t think he’s doing this for anyone but himself, though. If he was completely terrible to everyone all the time, they’d quickly tire of his shit and start avoiding him. By convincing them that he might have redeeming qualities after all, they stay in the ‘victim pool’ longer.
I still ship it.
mike teaches amber the ways of supervillainy
How do you know that wasn’t his plan all along?
because mike didn’t plan amber having an abusive dad or getting accosted by a rapist dickhead. and if he did, he’s the absolute fucking worst
he would still be pretty bad for taking advantage of that situation but like not quite as bad, i guess
wait was this to me or not???? i genuinely can’t tell
it’s not, because there’s a # link after the date, and only top-level comments have that.
o.O OKAY
THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME I HAVE BEEN CONFUSED BY THIS
THANK YOU
You know, there are friends who will help you hide a body, and then there are “friends” who become the body you have to hide.
Mike is the latter.
That’s our Mike. He’s an asshole. If he likes you, his assholery is likely to turn out in your favor. And he seems to like Amber or Stacy.
Note: Do NOT expect Mike’s assholery to come out in your favor. If he finds out you think he likes you he will double down on assholery and aim it square at you.
There is exactly one time that has actually been at all true.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/profane/
Other than that, he is simply a giant asshole and Amber would benefit greatly from cutting all ties with him.
I refer to Walkyverse Mike and how it’s nice to see the tendency seems to have made the transition. The only known constant is Mike is an asshole not to be taken lightly.
it absolutely has not. remember when he harassed ethan back into the closet, and plotted to seduce ethan to hurt danny, or brought up amber’s horrible awkward night with ethan when she was vulnerable, or when he called amber an abuser like her father?
Mike is a bad person wno makes the lives of those who care for him worse. Maybe that will change. But it shows no sign.
Harassed Ethan back into the closet? Citation, please.
Mike tag, on 10th page currently, strip titled ‘Lincoln’ at the very bottom. It was less harassing at that time and more being able to persuasively argue Ethan into living a lie again because Ethan had the confidence in his identity of a potato. He did later add to his insecurity by asking Joyce her views as he knew that it would fuck with Ethan.
here’s the link. now I’m mad at mike again :/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/lincoln/
Wow. I’d forgotten that part of the conversation. I want to read it as everything Mike is saying just drips with sarcasm and poor Ethan just takes it all in at face value…but yeah. shit. Thanks for finding the link.
This was the part that stuck in my memory: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/wow/
With how Mike responded when Ethan went back into the closet a moment later, I don’t think that Mike actually intended to push him back in. I think Mike was trying to use his abrasiveness to frame the things he was saying in a negative light, so that Ethan would push back and end up more sure of himself.
But because Mike isn’t the tactical mastermind that he was in Walkyverse, none of his asshole plans are actually coming true the way he wanted them to.
I think that’s why everyone is interpreting Mike as same-old-same-old Jerk With A Heart of Gold; his actions and words all come off exactly the same as they always did. But they never seem to pay off, which is why the crowd that’s paying attention to the direct results of his actions is interpreting him as a pure, irredeemable asshole.
Because Mike can’t bend reality to match the intentions behind his assholery anymore, his intentions are becoming meaningless and all that matters anymore are his actions and their results. If you can always create a good result, your methods can be forgiven, but if not then your methods can only be measured by the likely outcome. And when the likely outcome of prodding people’s insecurities is to aggravate those same insecurities, you can’t be defended with, “I thought it would help them grow.” Dumbyverse doesn’t work on cartoon logic, so you can’t defend yourself with illogical, ridiculous claims. (And honestly, bullying people because you think it will help them grow is a pretty common defense for bullying, and it’s a shitty defense for a reason.)
I…gave similar to Mike’s yesterday. Well.
I was just thinking, “Didn’t someone literally say this in the comments”?
*advice similar
I spent time reworking this comment so it would make the most sense, and then I forgot a word.
Is Mike actually being nice for once, or is there some ulterior motive to his advice that I’m just not aware of yet?
it’s Mike. there’s *always* an ulterior motive.
It is possible that for once, Mike is actually trying to be nice and/or helpful, and is simply failing miserably at it simply because he is a trash monster with a sweaty, festering, pox-riddled, secondary butthole where his soul should have been.
As much as he pisses me off, I am willing to entertain the possibility. Hell, who knows, maybe there’s even feelings of some kind jammed up there somewhere
He’s encouraging her to give in to her aggressiveness. Not sure whether that’s helpful or not.
Of course, standing behind a tree forever is FOR SURE not going to do her life any good. There’s like, a possibility of his suggestion having a positive outcome? Becoming a part of the landscape forever definitely doesn’t.
Maybe she could go for a happy middle ground, where she doesn’t live behind a tree, but also doesn’t walk back into the dorms like their new stabby god. I feel like it can be done.
There are plenty of ways to encourage Amber to come inside that don’t involve being unpleasant turd.
Dropping a canister of tear gas would have accomplished the same thing here. That doesn’t mean Mike wouldn’t be an ass for taking that route either, even WITH good intentions
that sentence was friggin’ amazing thank you Fart Captor
Well he is Mike… and she is a mom… so… Nope, can’t see any possible ulterior motives based on past actions and/or words, none whatsoever.
I think he a) knows she’s amazigirl and b) actually likes her. This might be the first time he’s purposefully toned down his general assholery.
ffft, because ruling by fear can’t cause everyone to hate you and assure your quick destruction when they spot you showing any weakness. at least mike pushed her out into the world by being himself, which appears to have been his goal, so I’ll give him points for that.
What’s his angle?
45°, usually. 50°, on a particularly humid day.
Well, I guess if anybody’s looking for acute guy, we now where to send them.
Looking out for an old friend who has went through a terrible experience.
So he can steal her glasses while she sleeps, most likely.
He knows that when she goes back to her dorms, everyone will be…. SYMPATHETIC YET UNCOMFORTABLE towards her, the ultimate suffering for someone like Amber. That’s the devious plan! Maybe.
You know what’s a good way to help then? TELLING HER THAT.
Instead, he reinforced her anxiety about people fearing her by flat-out saying it was true.
I mean, that would happen with or without Mike, so he really has no input in any of that.
Make people feel like shit about themselves.
I know we’re all surprised by the appearance of Mike at least trying to be helpful, but seriously, this is an old high-school friend here and she just went through a great deal of trauma.
If Mike was here just to mock her he would be stepping down into Actual Monster territory.
What exactly is helpful about telling the girl whose greatest fear is turning into an abusive monster like her father that everyone is scared of her? How does that make anything better?
Well I never said he was good at comforting people.
Well… that’s… actually helpful advice from Mike. What’s his ulterior motive?
He basically reinforce her fear on being feared and hatred
See? Mike is awesome as he belittles Amber and sucks up to her mother! Who he will also have sex with.
Own the moment, Stabby Girl.
Mike is a good friend
I dunno… that avatar makes me question your statement’s veracity… that, and Mike himself.
Well that’s just objectively untrue. Mike is a terrible friend who once in a blue moon stumbles onto success despite that but people only ever focus on that once in a blue moon and not all the other times he makes his “friends” feel terrible about themselves.
*I HAVE THOUGHTS* – big surprise, huh? However, at the moment the thought at the forefront of my mind is about the name “Brannon.” Maybe I missed it in earlier strips, but Brannon is the first name of my male partner! He has spent decades trying to explain to people that his name is NOT a misspelled version of “Brandon.” My partner’s mother maintains that “Brannon” is an old Celtic name and a quick Google search shows me that it may mean “raven” and/or “sorrow.”
Raven’s Sorrow could make for a cute nickname… or a cool band name.
Brannon Braga was a writer and producer for Star Trek.
Wow, how fucking horrible of Mike, pointing out his friend’s shoddy hiding spot and then encouraging her to walk in with her head held high. What a complete piece of shit he is, pulling something like that.
Hey, nobody said that Mike was an asshole 24/7.
…nobody that I know of, anyway.
…Okay, I was wrong.
Please lead me to the stocks, so that I may undergo the traditional Rite of Anonymous Shaming before my internet peers.
Yeah, because everyone likes being sarcastically called “genius”, Einstein.
OK, on a more serious manner: Even while there may be some truth in what he’s telling Amber, he clearly is, as is his modus operandi, doing it in the worst way possible, always having to insert an insult somewhere. And there really has never been much evidence (if any) of him doing anything that’s ultimately not for his own amusement in the DoA universe.
He didn’t say this to help Amber. He said it to stir shit. If it somehow ends up helping Amber, that’s by accident.
Hey, don’t call me Einstein!
I heard that guy didn’t bathe much. Gross.
He’s a piece of shit because he called her her abuser and now he’s telling her to be proud that people will be scared of her when Amber has major anxity relating to both of those things.
A: One instance of good behaviour does not negate a lifetime of being a piece of shit and B: This isn’t even good behaviour this is at best only kinda shitty
I’ll answer these individually.
A: I never said it did. I’m only pointing out that Mike’s actions in this trip are not wrong. I can admit a character is a shithead while also admitting when said character isn’t currently being as much of a shithead.
B: Granted. I can’t, and have no desire to, argue with this.
Good call, Amber.
Most of Mike’s asshole behavior has to do with showing people a fact that they’re uncomfortable with. Amber doesn’t have that problem here: she’s fully aware of the fact that she’s uncomfortable with.
There’s nothing for Mike to be an asshole to her about. What’s he going to do? Mock her for knifing someone? He’s probably done that to death over the last few years. What’s the point?
maybe this is just like
there is literally nothing mike can do to amber that is worse than what she is doing to herself
I love Mike’s subtlety in panel 2.
“Good call.”
Unspoken: “On account of your ex husband being an abusive shithead and all.”
God, Mike is an awesome, magnificent asshole.
Yeah, he’s such an asshole, voicing approval for a woman’s choice to distance herself from a massive tool. How fucking horrible.
No? Pretty sure that’s the “awesome” part. The “magnificent asshole” comes from EVERYTHING ELSE he does.
Uh . . . yeah. What svata said. *aside glance at Delicious Taffy*
No, it’s cool. Far be it for me to object to someone assuming the absolute worst connotation possible. It is the internet, after all. *rolls eyes*
Mike is best in small doses. At the moment, he seems okay.
*eyes him shiftly*
I don’t know how to cope with Mike having a person he treats with respect.
So instead of being challenging in his usual fashion, he’s telling them to accept her new roll.
Stacy may be seeing Mike as being kind, helpful, and caring. A good egg, perhaps boyfriend material?
Mike is always nice to his friends’ moms. So he has a better chance of fucking them. And leaving them a nickel on their nightstand.
Something something nickle but several people already said that.
*nickel
….
Okay, 95% of what Mike’s saying sounds like good advice to me. This has me doubting my own morality.
I know this is a minor part of the comic, but it is so weird to have someone call Mike “Michael”.
Agree. I just plain forget his name is short for Michael.
Ok, people are really happy about Mike showing up for once, but there’s one thing that makes me disagree with that sentiment. And it’s called bottom speech-bubble panel 3. That is what a shoulder devil would say in a situation like this. Hell, it sounds a little bit like a Sith trying to turn a force user to the dark side. Because what he’s essentially saying is “Bask in their fear, let it feed you. Weaponize their fear, make them afraid to ever cross you.” Which in turn reminds me of a quote by either Emperor Tiberius or his grandnephew, adopted son, and successor Emperor Caligula. I forget which one said it. Anyways, the quote in question is “Let them hate us, so long as they fear us.” And that is essentially what Mike is saying to Amber, “What they think about you doesn’t matter so long as they’re afraid of you”. Jesus but what he’s saying here is creepy.
And let’s remember fear it’s what Amber’s dad and any abuser use as a weapon
True. His advice is, on the face of it, “make the most of being feared”.
But will any woman it that dorm – with the possible exception of Dorothy who saw it happen – fear her? If you didn’t watch it happen, it is easy to see it as a glorious deed.
By playing to her convictions he got her to move and see what is real.
This is pure manipulation and we are still trying to guess if his intentions are honorable or if he just takes every opportunity to do so, no matter what happens.
Mike’s intentions are never honourable. Sometimes they aren’t purely malicious but Mike and honour are mutually exclusive concepts.
What are you planning Mike. What’s your motive? Your endgame?
Amber walks, sees Danny and Joe and is the only person who could tell Danny to drop the hat and ukulele whom he would listen to! Objective achieved.
Danny also asks Amber to track down whoever leaked the ‘To Do List’, forcing the Amber and Amazi-Girl personae to work closely together to a common goal, forcing them to greater integration. Objective achieved.
Stacy is so grateful for getting Amber to stop hiding that she sleeps with him without him even having to spend the traditional nickel. Objective achieved. Before anyone complains against this one, I’ve got a feeling that there may be a teenage crush at work in Mike for this one.
Or he has a sinister objective and uses these to conceal it.
Mmmmm anger you feel, I see. Anger is the path to the Dark Side, it is.
Just once somebody shoulda said: Okay, but so is love, so shove it, Jedi puppet!
Y’know, I’m honestly wondering if this is just something Mike does with some people: Advocate their worst fears or the most repellent aspect of their self-images and thus force them to deny it and work to overcome it just to prove him wrong. It’s hard to tell with Mike because his behaviour is so bizarre that his ultimate motives are unreadable sometimes.
However, in this case, I’m also wondering if he’s doing this either as a favour to Stacy or because she’s paid him off somehow!
Doing this kind of shit ON PURPOSE would put him on the same level as Mary in terms of toxic malice. Stacy actually encouraging it would be even worse
Is Mike actually… not scowling at Amber’s mom, in that last panel? SCANDALOUS!
Hadn’t noticed that. Good catch.
just dropping in to say that Amber looks like a tchea fruit. that’s it bye
OMG, she does! Well spotted.
I fucking love how this place constantly vindicates Mike for his abusive bullshit.
Me, too! We’re bonding, you and I!
It always confounds me that a large group of readers seem to love Mike, and an equally large group hate Malaya.
And by confounds, I mean we all know exactly why and it makes me sad.
Jeez all these people trying to figure out what Mike’s motivations are and whether he’s good or evil.
As though he weren’t obviously an ineffable incomprehensible force of nature, like the *old* stories of the Fair Folk.
Forget vindicating or condemning him. Leave Mike his dish of cream and never tell him your real name.
I think this is one of the best interpretations I’ve ever seen of Mike.
This. So much this.
Pretty much.
I remember that Mike was actually a masochist in the Walkyverse who grinned when Amber finally stopped taking his abuse and hit him.
I wonder if that’s his endgame. Getting a weird mutually abusive relationship – or getting a consensual S&M relationship in the worst way possible.
Actually, I think it tells us that the Walkyverse Mike genuinely believed himself a monster and having a girlfriend who physically and verbally abused him fit in that self-image and was thus welcome.
Wow, that’s one hell of an alternate interpretation.
Has Mike grown 3 inches and gotten more buff?????? Willis are you making him more sexy?
Stupid sexy Warner.
I was just about to ask if he’s grown pecs
Dammit this is NOT helping my crush on– ahem, no one in particular. *shifty eyes*
Maybe every panel is drawn from a subjective perspective and Mike simply looks better if there is someone on-panel who finds him attractive?
I think it’s at least partly because he’s standing next to Amber and her mom who are both quite short, we mostly see mike next to Ethan who’s just insanely tall
Maybe he just heard Amber’s mom was around and went off to get the tightest shirt before stopping by?
And this is why Mike is awesome. Yes he acts like an ass, but it’s these gems (and the other developments he’s had in the other series) that make him the kind of ass I come back too and cheer on~.
Seconded!
Holy fuck, was that Mike being constructive? Without some backhanded way of being hurtful or making things worse? I…don’t know how to interpret that. Where’s the catch
From everything I’ve seen, Mike is a force of neutrality. When the comic universe gets too out of whack in one way or another, he knocks it back the other way.
I like this idea
He’s not and I cannot believe you’re reading it that way.
There doesn’t appear to be a catch. At face value, Mike is simply encouraging Amber to come out from behind the tree. Sure, she says she’s only doing it to get away from him, but who wants to admit when an asshole is actually right?
I continue to love Mike. I feel like Stacy does, too. :3
He’s the son she wishes she had (and she possibly is entirely okay with manipulating Amber into making him her son).
Mike is the worst and watching people go through the mental gymnastics to vindicate his behaviour is horrifying. I’m sick to death of white dudes getting a pass for being horribly cruel assholes because “they’re just telling it like it is.”
Seriously. The comments section is just fucking awful today, especially given how vitriolic it gets over every single other character.
While saying the truth can be done with ulterior purpose (even to hurt others), saying that Mike is a “horribly cruel asshole” is, to me, an exaggeration. Mike is often polite, while uncaring, and there’s infinite ways he could be more hurtful if this was all he wanted to do.
He slutshamed Dorothy and Sal.
He told Amber she was already her abuser.
He directly mocked Billie’s suicidal depression to Walky’s face.
He’s seducing Ethan to make him miserable.
But. no, our favourite edgelord mary sue certainly isn’t a horribly cruel asshole.
It’s hard to check the context of every claim without the links but:
For what I remember, he implied Amber she could become an abuser (what is more probable than the other possibilty discussed, that was becoming a pushover, Amber has issues); and about Ethan I would wait to see how things develop.
He bluntly told her that if she wasn’t the one “picking jerks” then she was like Blaine.
If I’m not mistaken, the context was proposed by Amber herself. She said she was afraid to become like her parents, and cited flaws of her mother that she didnt have, Mike pointed that between her parents, her mother was the one parent she had least chance to become.
Also, Amber is probably more like Blaine than her mother.
Oh good now we’re getting into this bullshit again.
Fuck you people.
Amber was already acting like an abuser. We actually don’t know his real motives for doing anything as they’re rarely explained with the few times he does explain them they tend to be completely different than was assumed.
Granted he’s still a massive asshole and chooses to do whatever good he does in the nastiest way he can.
The fuck she was. She ran to Danny and lied to him in a panic to get away from her shitlord father.
Goddammit you people are just the fucking worst.
And there was the part where she admitted she dated Danny because she could control him. And the part where she was actually controlling him, dictating rules for their relationship, not all of which she bothered to tell him about or ever explained and punished him whenever he broke one of them by either making him feel guilty or spewing verbal insults at him (yes, she didn’t mean to snap, yes she was sorry, no that changes nothing). And there was how she was treating Ethan much the same way (yes it would be annoying to find out that Ethan had crawled back into the closet after all they’d been through but it doesn’t justify her screaming at him, flipping the table he was at or guiltiung him for not doing what she wanted him to, she was making his life all about her)
Just because Amber is the victim of a shithole father does not mean she can’t have developed those tendencies herself. Yes, she’s resisting them when she becomes aware of them, but they’re still there.
And there was the part where she admitted she dated Danny because she could control him.
This never happened and your entire post is bullshit.
Mike’s an asshole. That much is clear.
But Amber’s “nice” friends let her harm herself constantly.
Amber’s “nice” friends allow her to consistently engage in self-harm and really unusual illegal activity.
Ethan’s “nice” friends let him fall back on self-denial, while Mike forces him to confront his gayness WITHOUT outing him. Or maybe he just really wants to fuck Ethan. His motivations are so opaque there.
Was he slut-shaming Sal? When?
Was he slut-shaming Dorothy? When?
Without going back through the archives, Mike pretty openly doesn’t actually care about whether or not people have sex, and neither Sal nor Dorothy is particularly ashamed of their sexuality, and he seems to know that. Simply pointing out that people are having sex isn’t slut-shaming.
Mike’s an asshole and I personally wouldn’t want to hang out with him, and I don’t think he’s a magic dickhole who solves problems with the power of being an inconsiderate prick, but the actual results of his actions don’t seem much worse than the other character’s benign neglect.
“let” her? they’re her friends, not her owners.
also, mike’s the one who encouraged ethan back into the closet. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/lincoln/
You know your friend is cutting. Or is addicted to painkillers. Or regularly patrols your campus, fistfighting strangers over misdemeanors. If you know about that, and don’t do anything to stop it, you’re “letting” them do it.
Amber’s nice friends try to stop her from tearing herself down by trying to build her up and being supportive.
Amber’s nice friends don’t tell her she’s already becoming her abusive father. Instead, they discourage those harmful thoughts and assure her that she is both loved and deserving of love.
Amber’s nice friends are grateful she risked her life to save Becky’s, and later Dorothy and Joyce’s.
Ethan’s nice friends respected that the decision about when, where and how Ethan came it was NOT theirs to make, and instead chose support and gentle encouragement.
Here’s Mike suggesting Sal had to fuck the professor to get a C
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/02-i-was-a-teenage-churchmouse/assignments/
Here’s Mike telling Danny about Dorothy and Walky getting together:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/waving/
Here he is taking compromising photos of Dorothy in bed with Walky:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/snice/
Oh and my favorite, Mike mocking Billie for her relationship with Ruth, to her best friend, the morning after Ruth was hospitalized and they learned that the two of them were suicidal:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/stufftodo/
To be fair Sal actually was fucking the ta. Otherwise, yes he’s just being a dick.
Especially since they often aren’t. Assholes who “tell it like it is” tend to on average be wrapped up in conspiracy theories that support systems of dominance and oppression and are often openly hostile to new information, especially information that would make them feel bad about their actions.
Like, fuck, Trump is the poster child of “asshole who tells it like it is” and he’s a complete mark for every white supremacist fairy tale possible and believes Alex Jones is a valuable source of information about how the world works.
And it makes sense. When you’re being an asshole deliberately, you are shutting your heart off to your empathy and end up having to invent justifications for it. Whereas a person who cares about people and wants to do right by them is much more likely to extend that empathy and want to do the unglamorous actions of listening to people, seeing where they are and what they are dealing with, and finding the right way to help and support them.
Like, for all people cling to this myth that hackneyed edgelords are providing some “key psychological service”, the reality is they are frequently what creates and deepens PTSD and a valuable psychologist, one who aids in the mental recovery or survival of an individual, tends to be one who is kind, warm, and caring.
It’s why for all the stories of asshole dads sharing “tough love” stories, so few of their children are happy to think fondly on those abusive times.
I honestly still can’t figure out if Alex Jones is for real or if he’s just some far-right version of Stephen Colbert. “The government is secretly poisoning your kids’ juice boxes with chemicals that will turn them gay in order to suppress population growth” is not the kind of claim I’m inclined to take seriously.
According to his own testimony at his child custody hearing, he’s just “playing a character”
But considering how very seriously his audience takes him, and the amount of harm done by the conspiracy theories he pushes, that would make him an even worse person
I’ve got no idea whether Alex Jones actually believes the crap he spews or whether he’s just riding the gravy train. He’s nothing like Colbert though. Colbert was openly parodying his character for laughs. The audience was in on the joke, as you could tell by all the laughter and by it being billed as a comedy act.
The best that can be said for Jones is that he’s just stirring up the crazies and spreading dangerous lies for money. Which isn’t much better than doing it for the cause or out of true belief.
Colbert punched up, not down.
What does it have to do with “white dudes”? Being an asshole, is usually not tied to your appearance (race or gender). And irl, I frankly won’t give any asshole I meet a pass. I’ve met my fair share of those.
In any case, people saying “People SAY I’m an asshole, because I’m very honest” is a red flag, a redder one than people telling you “I am an asshole”, at least in my experience.
I couldn’t say how I’d react to a MIKE irl, because I honestly don’t think someone like Mike exists (this cartoonish kind of evil).
You’d be unpleasantly surprised at how many Mikes exist out there. Being openly trans or mentally ill on the internets is like being a living beacon for the fuckers.
Nobody on the internet acts like they would irl. It’s the internet.
recently Willis introduced a WoC whose dialogue was secretly based on mike’s. There were still people defending her.. abrasiveness… but iirc the comments section leaned much more towards condemning it.
and yeah, people like mike exist. he reminds me of several guys from my high school.
…did Mike do somethign useful ? O_o
(or rather, he probably just was honestly annoyed)
Whether he means to or not, whether people like it or not, Mike generally gives useful advice. He is a teller of inconvenient truths.
Yes he is.
I don’t think what he does is accidental. He gives useful advice, usually in a way people hear, even if it’s not ‘nice’.
Especially if it’s not nice.
Mike has his moments, however few they may be, where his blunt asshole-ish ways can be redeeming. I can see if this was Dorothy he was doing that to, knowing she’s going to therapy about the incident (He’s an ass but he’s not an irredeemable scumbag) but here he’s encouraging Amber to take pride in her actions. Yes, they were violent and WE know that she’s got a metric shit-ton of baggage that needs unpacking, but avoiding the reality of it all isn’t going to help her either. Mike here is acting as a catalyst that she’ll need in order to take the first steps to face her actions. Yeah, he can be an asshole, but sometimes, those people can be the best solution to the worst situation.
i’m lacking in backstory. Mike and Amber from the same home town?
Yes they are. Same town, same high school.
Mike, Amber, and Ethan went to school together.
ah, got it. thanks
The one person most afraid of Amber is Amber. She created an alter-ego just to channel and control what she felt were the worst impulses. Other women in the dorm might regard her as some kind of hero.
Precisely; what Amber desperately needs is an excuse to more integrate her two (possibly three) conflicting personae. This incident could be what she needs to do so.
With apologies to all my English teachers, and to The Seekers.
(to the tune of Georgy Girl)
Hey there, Stabby Girl.
Why’re you trying to hide behind a tree?
Don’t you know the that everyone one will see
the craziness there, inside you?
Hey there, Stabby Girl.
Why do all the boys just slink away?
Could it be they’ll never want to play
with maniacs, just like you?
You’re always cutting chopping but never stopping to cry.
So stick that roofie boy in the eye, a little bit.
Hey there, Stabby Girl.
There’s another Stabby deep inside.
Let her fly that freak flag high, and oh what a change there’d be,
the world would see, a new Stabby Girl!
*Mike continues to harass a traumatized abuse victim and she walks away of her own admission while loudly acknowledging that what he said was bullshit*
“lol you go mike i want to lick your chest”
Fuck this place today.
Considering that Amber and Mike are friends, and this is how their interactions often look like, how do you distinguish between harassment and a conversation?
Probably because every time he talks to her he holds her fears and traumas over her head.
Yet she never stopped considering Mike her friend or said to him to never approach her again. (And in another universe, she married him.)
This is the first time they’ve spoken since Mike told her she was doomed to become her abuser, and that was four years ago.
First: four years ago is some days or weeks on DOA time. You know this and used DOA very slow passage of time to strengthen your point in a non-relevant way.
Second: you are assuming that every interaction between the main cast is documented in the comic. Days pass, people cross with each other in the halls, go back to the dorms where another character is, etc.. not every interaction is shown.
If Willis hasn’t had the two characters interact in four years I’d say that means something. You can’t use some out of comic knowledge and not others. Also you seem to be deliberately ignoring Spencer’s main point about Mike’s treatment of Amber while simultaneously accusing them of arguing dishonestly. That’s rather hypocritical.
I already given my opinion about his main point: there’s no proof that Amber don’t consider Mike a friend anymore, the way he treats her seems to be allowed in their friendship.
@ArcaneDarkness:
Do you NOT see her angrily storming off and away from him and his bullshit?
Mike doesn’t have friends. He has people he’s willing to stand next to.
Is there actually any indication she ever considered him a friend, much less still does? Has she said so? Does she go talk to him? Do they do things together?
@Zatar: bingo.
The only interaction I know of in that time is when he went creeper on Amazi-Girl. She’s got good reason to keep him stuffed in her mental freezer and, as Fart Captor says, to get away from his bullshit whenever it comes near her.
Amber has made her feelings about Mike rather clear
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/labels/
Ethan might still consider him a friend, but Amber seems to be very much done with him.
We walked away from that last panel of Amber playing and inner slash reel/lusting for Mike’s abs with VERY different interpretations. She clearly sees Mike for the asshole he is, but I dunno. She isn’t denying he’s a friend or saying Ethan should have nothing to do with him, or even saying *she* would have nothing to do with him.
Finding him physically attractive has absolutely no bearing on whethershe sees him as a friend, or likes him at all. I might think Mary is pretty, but that doesn’t at all stop me from wanting her to be fired into the sun.
When Ethan questions his decision not to pick Mike as a roommate, Amber is incredulous, and reinforces the decision. When Ethan gets all wistful about high school, Amber immediately becomes suspicious that Mike is being manipulative. It seems very, very clear that she doesn’t trust or like Mike at ALL.
She also hasn’t even ONCE been shown to seek out Mike’s company like she does Ethan’s or Danny’s. Even She just seems to tolerate him when he happens to be there.
Amber did know that Mike is Mike since before the starting of the comic. Ethan says the three are friends at some moment, and is not corrected. I do not believe Mike was different before, and I think that Amber simply accepts Mike for the asshole he is.
Eh, finding someone pretty is different from the kind of switched on Amber is conveying there. Most people do factor in personality to attraction-which-is-more-than-just-aesthetic. But it’s a fair point that that is not necessarily true.
Amber doesn’t immediately become suspicious. She immediately questions whether queer is a label that can apply to Mike. Then she becomes suspicious of why ETHAN is getting all whistful and makes the logical conclusion that Mike is being nice to him to get sex. I don’t get the sense that her relationship with MIke is at all changed since we first see them interact.
Btw Sorry for typos my phone is being a real bongo all of a sudden.
I agree that both Amber and Ethan “accept Mike for the asshole he is”, but I think that even if Amber hasn’t already decided that putting up with Mike’s shit isn’t worth it, she’s getting there.
I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that BOTH of Mike’s oldest “friends” have serious self-esteem issues. Amber’s tendency to believe she doesn’t deserve to have good people in her life is no doubt a big part of why she puts up with Mike to the extent that she does.
@JQuire:
The fact that Amber strongly advising Ethan against hooking up with Mike seems like a solid indication personality does not factor into her opinion that Mike is hot.
I don’t see how any of her suspicion is directed at Ethan. She reacted to what Ethan was telling her, but because the way Ethan was talking about Mike made her mind jump straight to “Mike is up to something manipulative and Ethan is falling for it”. She worried about Ethan there. No doubt this isn’t the first time he’s pulled crap like that
And on that note, why would her relationship with Mike need to have changed? When has Amber ever expressed positive feelings towards Mike? Both Ethan and Amber have a say in whether Mike is still their friend, and both seem to be growing apart from him
@ Fart Cap
Amber doesn’t advise Ethan against hooking up with Mike, though. To the contrary she says ‘hell no’ to the idea that hooking up with him would be an absolute negative. Then the conversation gets cut off.
What she says that Ethan should not have been roommates with him, which is a related but separate train of thought.
I say that she is suspicious towards Ethan because she has a moment of ‘wait a minute, why are you re-thinking your decision about being roommates with Mike? and why is his being queer matter?’ From there she jumps to the (correct) conclusion and becomes suspicious of Mike.
As far as seeing a change, and why that’s relevant:
You originally said this strip is clear evidence that Amber is no longer friends with Mike. When they start out the comic they are at least nominally friends, no change in the dynamics between start and now means that the attitude shown here is not probative of the change from friends to ‘no longer interested in dealing with this person at all’.
You’re reacting this strongly over people reading a fictional character. Fiction is open to interpretation. People see the same text differently from how you do not because they’re horrible monsters, but because they have different backgrounds, different experiences, and different… everything else, really. I’m sorry your own experiences with people make you react this strongly to Mike’s behavior in the comic, but please try not to shame other people for reacting as they do. That would be a Mike thing to do.
You’ll notice that at no time did I give my own reading of Mike’s character above. For the record, I think he wants to be the guy who is a dick for the good of others, but he’s an idiot kid who hasn’t developed the finesse to pull that off, so he’s just an asshole.
Fictional characters and stories are abstractions of real human situations. If they are well written (e.g. Willis) people reading them will react to the situations abstracted therein.
I should probably just create a keyboard macro so I can say that every time someone goes all; “Hey, chill out, they’re just fictional characters!” (or any variation thereof)
Of course they are, and of course these storylines are going to upset those of us in the audience.
But there’s a difference between being furious at Mike because he reminds you of something you experienced in real life — perfectly understandable — and being furious at other people for liking Mike, which you then take out on those other people by responding nastily to every single thing they say, no matter how innocuous, about liking him.
Like. Person A is mad because they feel like liking Mike and excusing his behavior could possibly lead to excusing similar behavior in real life — while at the same time being actively mean to Person B themselves. They’re literally being an asshole because they think liking an asshole hypothetically makes Person B more likely to be an asshole. That’s some cognitive dissonance.
Also, the argument that people always react to fiction the _same way_ they react to reality is just… very flawed. That’s the same logic that has been used to try to ban violent movies/books/video games. Fiction has the ability to show us viewpoints we hadn’t previously considered, and if we trust the narrative too much and fail to think critically it can sell us propaganda. But the same person who laughs at slapstick comedy in a movie can still be horrified if they see a real person, say, step on a rake and smack themselves in the face.
People can and do enjoy characters like Mike without endorsing real-world assholery, and they can also condemn characters like Mike while being real-world assholes themselves to people they think deserve it.
Right. And I would neither claim nor try to defend anyone who tried to claim that being upset at Mike’s behavior because of their own life experience is wrong. Fiction is a powerful powerful thing and downplaying that would be incredonly wrong of me.
What I was saying is that letting that reaction color your views and treatment of other people, who also react to fiction differently but for entirely the same reasons, probably means that you need to step back. We’re all mostly human, and it’s wise to try not to forget that.
What bothers me at least isn’t people liking Mike, or even thinking he’s trying to help here. Similar to how I feel about Joe, what bothers me is when people minimize or ignore the very real harm behavior like his causes.
It’s specifically the suggestions that if Mike’s intent is to “make people confront harsh truths / their hypocrisy / demons”, that this would in any way be a good thing. Even ignoring the many cases of Mike mistreating his friends where it is clearly not the case, even ignoring how often he’s given credit for things which happened in spite of him, not because of him, the ends do not justify the means.
Thinking you know what’s best for other people does not give you the right to treat them the way Mike does. It’s possible Mike isn’t a monster. It’s possible he means well. It’s possible he’s a fairly typical teenage troll who thinks he’s edgy as fuck, but will eventually grow out of it.
It’s okay to like him. Even if it’s not just as a character. He’s still an asshole who treats his friends like crap most of the time.
Similarly, what bothers me about the reaction to people who like Mike isn’t the disagreement, but the huge buckets of vitriol being dumped on real people for liking a fictional character.
There is definitely a thread in these comment sections where liking Bad Characters makes you, the actual human being, a Bad Person, and therefore makes being incredibly nasty to you justified behavior. :\
wait, what buckets of vitriol? all I remember seeing is Spencer losing his temper, Emily being Emily, and a few other people being exasperated and/or confused.
…okay, Spencer lost his temper several times. that’s not great, but is it really so bad as to count as “incredibly nasty”? (honest question, I’m trying to calibrate my sense of what’s reasonable here)
I agree with Fart Captor that it’s important not to minimise or encourage behaviour like Mike’s. Partly because it’s easy for me to forget that it’s harmful in RL, and I want to get better at explaining what’s wrong with it.
I also agree that it’s not okay to be nasty to people, and nobody’s automatically a Bad Person for having views that lead to harm.
I’m glad Spencer seems to have bounced fairly early. I hope he’s takin’ care of himself.
I would try to defend myself but nah you’ve kinda got me pegged.
hehe 🙂
I really don’t understand you enough to say something constructive. like, it annoys me that 99% of your comments seem to be very negative, and it probably isn’t good for your mental health either?
I mean I just don’t have much to SAY when I’m happy about things so it’s less a case of me being always upset and more I only bother to speak up when I’m frustrated with something in order to vent those feelings.
hmm. I worry about whether I do that myself; righteous anger has a way of getting past my comment anxiety much better than happiness. (only online, though.) I’ve been making an effort lately to say nice things even when they seem a bit redundant. (nice things about *other* people, that is. still not comfortable saying nice things about myself. 😛 )
so, mostly you’re just reminding me of my own insecurities 🙂 but it might be nice to see happy-emily sometimes and not just frustrated-emily.
Happy-emily is like incapable of interesting or complex thought. Like it would literally just be dozens of comments that read “I like this it is a good thing.”
I dunno, I think I’m starting to get better at expressing myself. 🙂 very, verrrrryyy slooowwwlly.
and then there’s the days when my comments are just “:)” and that’s okay.
‘Emily being Emily’
Hey, if you won’t be Emily, who else will?
@Halpful
I guess, I don’t see a lot of people actually excusing behavior like Mike’s; I’ve mostly seen fans of Mike, when confronted, immediately say, “Oh, I’d probably hate him if I knew him in real life.”
As for buckets of vitriol… for Mike, I think it’s only a couple of people consistently attacking his fans (“stalwart people fighting the good fight”, as another person put it), because, for whatever reason, he has a lot of fans… but it’s part of a larger pattern for me which I would like to see just… stop.
Wishful thinking, I suppose.
it’s worth thinking about. 🙂 I think I might have spent all my thinking-spoons for the day now, though.
I don’t blame you! <3 I hope the rest of your day/night is nice and peaceful.
🙂 you too
Nobody is saying anything remotely like that.
*Comments don’t immediately boo and hiss and scream over Mike’s very presence* “Fuck you people! You people are the fucking worst!” This level of vitriol seems a tad excessive, in this particular context.
Like, nobody’s saying Mike can do no wrong (not seriously, anyway). We’re just pointing out that, in this specific strip, he’s done nothing wrong. Here’s all he did, so far:
He backed up Stacy when she told him about her name change, which I think you’d have to deliberately misinterpret to see as a bad thing, seeing as her ex-husband is a complete shitheel, and she has no reason not to drop his name.
He points out that Amber’s hiding spot is pretty flimsy, which it is. Sure, he said it in an abrasive way, but since when is sarcastically calling a friend “genius” a genuine insult?
He tells Amber to own the newfound fear from the people inside, which actually seems to work, since she, y’know, decides to go in. I’d personally find that very encouraging, and would most likely listen to him.
So, please, feel free to explain how anything Mike’s done in this strip is in any way wrong or harmful. And I stress that I mean this strip, because I’m well aware that he’s generally a complete tool. Funny thing, that; I can acknowledge that a character is an asshole, while still recognising the times they’re not doing something assholish.
“She loudly acknowledged what he said was bullshit.”
Bear in mind that nearly everything Amber does is deeply irrational. Speaking as someone with even just moderate anxiety, when I’m feeling anxious I don’t want to hear solutions, EVEN IF THEY’D ACTUALLY HELP. Even if I act on a helpful solution, I will usually need to regulate my emotions before I can honestly express gratitude. Most anxious people I know apologize copiously after an anxiety attack, because they know that the anxiety made them act irrationally.
And before you get to worked up about the “irrational” comment… Amber has a separate identity that she uses to dissociate from her actions. An identity she uses to commit violence and self-harm.
The narrative complicates her use of violence and risk-seeking behavior by framing her actions as noble, but much like Batman or Hellboy, it’s pretty clear “violence” is her motivating force and “noble” is kind of a convenient side-effect.
And Mike being sort of a dick to her is small potatoes compared to her treatment by people like Dorothy or Danny, who conceal her identity even after she was HIT BY A CAR. Was proper medical treatment ever administered after that? I don’t remember.
Carla helped her with her head injury, but that’s about it, as far as I can recall.
I’m gonna have to go ahead and get upset about that “irrational” comment all the same.
You’re completely denying that Amber has any agency here. Her actions during the car chase may have been reckless, but also incredibly selfless. Calling that merely a “side-effect” is pure garbage. She wasn’t having a break with reality. She wasn’t hallucinating, overcome with rage or even having a panic attack. She was in control of her actions and absolutely deserves credit for them.
When she’s having a panic attack she’s irrational. Her anxiety is irrational. That doesn’t make every decision she makes irrational. Nor does disassociation.
Calling Danny and Dorothy’s behavior worse than Mike’s is also bizarre. Especially since Danny didn’t even know about the car crash until long after when Sal told him about it. Which prompted him to go talk to AG, and try to get her not to take those kinds of risks.
It’s also not as if AG actually TOLD anyone that she got hurt. She left the scene by herself and was up and walking around just fine the next time either of them saw her. No reason for them to assume any medical attention was needed.
I was strongly debating whether or not I wanted to give the comments thread a full miss today for this reason. Ugh, if only our society wasn’t so hung-up on celebrating amoral edgelords so long as they are cis and white and male.
*hugs*
*hugs* right back.
I really need to just nope out on the comments on any strip involving Mike because it’s invariably the same frantic attempts to pretend he’s not an awful person.
I one hundred percent support you doing what you need for your mental health. *appropriate gesture of support*
Who are these people getting frantic to defend his usual behavior?
Every single “Mike is actually a secret mastermind that is being a jerk for their own good” comment.
And all the ones that don’t make it out here in public thanks to Willis’s Big Moderator Stick of Doom.
(but which we occasionally get to cringe at on Twitter. me, I prefer watching his Elsa hit on everyone she can.)
I’m sorry 🙁
Ever so slowly the pieces emerge…
thoughts inspired by the name of this page – O’Malley
* Bam Bam Bam Crash *
“Okay, Blond Boy, where’s Stabby?”
“She’s not behind this tree.”
“Oho, she’s behind that tree, eh?”
“If she were behind this tree, would I pour gasoline all over it and toss a lighted match at it?”
Hm. I’m glad there are a few stalwart people fighting the good fight against the greater tide of commenters sucking Mike’s dick.
Like, I liked Mike in Shortpacked, but as was said in like, comment chain#2, DoA mike is not Shortpacked Mike. Mike’s only been in 152 strips so far, less than any other “main cast” member except Carla, and the only reason we know more about Carla’s intentions than Mike is because she is extremely direct while he is extremely obtuse. This comic has not given us an in-depth look at Mike and his intentions and why he is the way he is, and until it does, every comment about whether his unrepentant shitholery has some kind of benevolent motivation is just speculation.
Granted most people preface their Mike praise with some sort of “maybe,” and I appreciate that, but I’ll never understand how anyone can be convinced Mike in DoA is some kind of hero. Watching folks make “he’s an asshole for the greater good” comments sort of helps me understand how we ended up with President Trump.
Well while I mostly agree with you here, we should acknowledge that shortpacked Mike was actually a good guy asshole, and that likely influences people’s perception of this Mike, since all the characters look the same and Mike has the same mannerisms as before, it leads to the conclusion that the underlying personality traits are the same as well. This is a logical fallacy of course, but it is understandable why people would see Mike’s assholery yield positive results and make that connection
Who’s sucking his dick?
Like Mike, SomeGuy understands that if you don’t specifically call someone out, you can insult everyone at the same time!
I’m just going to egotistically assume I’m included in it, then. More fun, that way.
Amber apparently, at least in the Shortpacked storyline.
For a sec I thought Willis was echoing that time in another universe when Amber gets told that she should walk in like she owns the place. It’s not all that similar though, just a coincidence.
http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=197
It would’ve been a really random thing for which to have one of his patented more-than-a-decade callbacks.
Mike isn’t wrong per se… warped & twisted, for sure, but not wrong.
Comic Reactions:
Mm. First up, the regression on Amber is heart-breaking. The way she’s back to being completely consumed by her fear, hiding behind tall objects like in the gas station.
That incident fucked with her and while she is not in jail, the fact that Stacey is back here with her trying to support and calm her means things are not going okay in her head and I’m worried and terrified and excited all at the same time to see how this ends up interacting with her likely dissociative disorder.
Second, Mike… Here’s the thing about Mike. He’s an edgelord. And like many edgelords, he only knows how to punch down and he views mental health crises as weaknesses one can rationally think their way out of.
This may in fact be the first time in comic where his dickery “helped” someone, but it’s worth noting how it did so by treating Amber’s anxiety, panic attack, and coping behavior as absolute garbage and expecting neurotypical behavior from her automagically.
And it makes the fact that he’s “befriended” two people with deep mental health problems and has actively made them worse or treated them like something one just “pulls oneself up by their bootstraps” over. And that’s fucking super harmful to mentally ill people.
Like, being mentally ill, I have no shortage of assholes acting like I should just “power” my way through a depression spiral or a PTSD fueled panic attack, or a bad episode of derealization so that I can return to performing neurotypicality for their benefit. And no shortage of assholes who like to come after me, because they view that as a thing that makes me a soft target to fuck with, as someone weak.
And the reality is, as much as my brain tries to agree with them, the raw facts show I am not weak. That what I’ve “powered through” would have reduced any of them to tears. I’m seeing it a lot here on my final week teaching at my current job, dealing with PTSD and derealization and having to explain to my bosses that this isn’t my first rodeo with PTSD and teaching through it.
And the same is true of Amber. Mike is presenting a fiction here. That he is strong and Amber is weak because of her fear, her anxiety, and her PTSD. That her doing a desperate coping strategy to try and feel more safe and build up to doing a thing that is really hard for her is somehow her being a fragile ignorant snowflake who doesn’t even understand how trees work.
And it’s kind of a bit horrifying.
And well, not uncommon. People don’t like seeing “crazy” people revealing their crazy in public. People want us to always be performing for them so they can pretend that things like PTSD don’t have deep and abiding effects on one’s life, that we are all just weak, not strong like them and could be better if we bought some overpriced herbs from Whole Foods that was on Oprah one time.
Because otherwise, they’d have to consider what a mess they’d be in if they were ever traumatized. If they had to go through half the shit we do.
And Mike, even when he’s “helping” is the emblem of that.
I wonder if Mike’s fiction is a coping mechanism too? one that works (so far) for him, but backfires badly for many other people. with loads of collateral damage either way.
so, a really shitty inappropriate coping mechanism.
I wouldn’t be surprised. Most edgelord antics are a coping mechanism and mask in one way or another. A means of bypassing feeling vulnerable or scared or “weak”.
You aren’t wrong but I know sometimes I need a good kick in the ass to keep from giving up. Sometimes just being strong all the time, doesn’t help and jerks like Mike pissing me off by spout bs end up giving the boost I need to make the necessary wrong. I also find they are necessarily always wrong they might be incapable of seeing the big picture but they can point out the more inconvenient trees in their own irritating way.
That’s fair. Though I suppose for me, I do enough of the kicking my ass that I don’t really need to have an external source for it. And Amber, from what we’ve seen of her internal world seems the same on that account at least.
some people benefit from a kick in the ass. others just end up more injured. some people it varies.
what’s not okay is acting like a kick in the ass is harmless and risk-free, or that one has the authority to decide for someone else that it’s what they need.
Mike’s tall. Or Amber’s Mom is just short. And Ethan is still a bit taller than Mike, if I recall correctly?
Panel 1: Again, as I noted above, Amber knows that this isn’t real safety, but a psychological desperate grasp at a faux security and you know what? Sometimes that little bit can help make sure you get home after a bad panic attack. It’s a means of resetting and building back up your spoons to continue forward on something really hard and this?
Think how hard this type of return home for Ruth was and for Amber? It’s even worse. Because this was a part of her “crazy” she didn’t want anyone to ever see, didn’t want to even have in her. And so a positive comment might end up hurting as much as a negative one would. Because what they are praising would be something she wished she never had.
And Mike comes in to that and interferes with that process and acts like Amber’s being ignorant about the reality that is around her rather than trying to deal with it and her mental illness as best she can in the moment.
And the worst part is her plaintive “not now”. I’ve been in that point where I’m out of spoons and holding on by my fingernails and some asshole is trying to pick a fight with me over me being trans or whatnot and I’m just “not now”, not even having the energy to defend myself, fight back, or even acknowledge.
And the thing about those states is well, they are vulnerable moments. When I’m drained, I’m drained and so a nasty comment can get right in through my worn armor and give a good jab to my insecurities and traumas. I’m at my most able to be hurt in those moments and here is where Mike appears and refuses to leave.
And that needs focus. Even though she’s told him she doesn’t have the energy to deal with him, he refuses to leave, he continues to be the same asshole that he is, he continues to undermine her mental health. And it’s that entitlement to her time and energy that makes him fucking dangerous.
Like, folks, if a mentally ill person says that they don’t have the energy for something at the moment, the very worst thing you could do is try to force them into it “for their own good”.
Panel 2: It might just be me, but I’m really chilled by this panel. Like, the way he’s so polite and respectful to authority while being cruel and unthinking to peers and the fast way he uses politeness to make Amber’s potential protestations to her actions seem overwrought is stirring up so much inside me.
Because well… this is shit abusers do all the fucking time. Being nice to the cops and then gaslighting you in private, and weaponizing even family against you. Like, how could you have a problem with X, they’re always so nice when they come over.
I’ve had friends whose abusive partners would make them sit down for a “civil board game night” right after they had punched them in the head repeatedly, so any reaction to that would seem like “ruining everyone’s good time”. And so Mike’s immediate shift into respectful perfect child is chilling to me.
Because it makes me wonder what else he’s capable of.
“And the thing about those states is well, they are vulnerable moments.”
Yup. Even trained professionals can fuck up in those moments. Mike is not a trained professional.
Yeah, I feel like people go, oh exposure therapy is a thing and so assume someone untrained recreating abusive environments is somehow helping rather than retraumatizing the person. Like, that technique needs to be done by a trained psychologist in a very controlled environment and there’s a lot of pre and aftercare that goes into it and it’s all heavily controlled by the patient’s consent.
urgh. yeah. my husband used to mansplain that one pretty badly. we had Talks.
Brain surgery is a thing, so if people complain about having headaches, we should go around sticking knives into their skulls, amirite.
All the eyeroll for that brand of nonsense.
I dunno, some people are pretty damn insufferable about their headaches.
ALL the untrained, unlicensed, unrequested “therapy” and “help” that Michael imposes on his friends is at the very least misguided. If he is this astute about his friends’ psyches, he is astute enough to suggest professional support as a useful possibility for those he ostensibly cares about. That he chooses instead to manipulate others is entirely on him.
Panel 2 cont: And you see it in Amber’s face here. He’s using that faux friendliness to ignore her request to leave her alone and it’s freaking her the fuck out. Her face is a mess and she looks ready to break and her anxiety in that moment is completely out of control. She is clinging to a tree, freaking the fuck out, and they are exchanging pleasantries in her space like her feelings don’t matter.
And that’s not a dig on Stacey. Honestly, she’s a super woman for all she’s managed to escape and what she tries to provide in support for her daughter, just noticing the gaps and what Mike is exploiting in social expectations and forms.
Panel 3: So this moment. So like, this moment might be the first time where Mike’s special blend of complete assholery actually “helped” someone. In that she’s up and moving and not hiding.
But it’s worth noting yesterday’s context. She’s not afraid that someone is going to hurt her. She’s afraid she’s going to be an object of fear, that she will be known as the crazy stabby girl and that that will be all she’ll ever be known as again. She’s afraid people will look at her and flinch in terror, like her dad made her flinch in terror every time he yelled.
That’s what she’s scared of. So Mike’s pep talk here? About how everyone fears her and that’s power? Is everything she’s openly terrified. He’s basically going “hey, you know that massive insecurity you are having a panic attack about right now, yeah, it’s 100% true, but hey, it’s okay, because as an amoral edgelord, I’d love to be feared.”
And yes, that gets her moving, but holy fuck is that a fucked thing to say to a person in that space. It’d be like going up to Ruth and going “yeah, Billie and everyone you ever loved will leave you and also you are a worthless failure and deserve to die, anyways, toodleloo”.
And all while he delivers this, he sneers at her mental illness, treating it like a mental incapability rather than a handicap or a hinderence. Like Amber is just not “smart” enough to logic her way out of a desperate coping strategy for a panic attack and needs his wise sage neurotypical help to recognize his neurotypical-centric way of viewing the world is somehow right.
It’s Mike doing the same old shit, but we’re supposed to cheer him because Stacey thanks him and she’s physically moving.
Panel 5: And oof, a parent thanking someone for hitting as cruelly into one’s insecurities as possible? That’s so fucked up. Like, I know Stacey means well and Mike is good at play-acting the good friend and well-mannered boy to her, but oof, way to misread the situation and make things hurt all the more.
And Amber’s line here? I know it’s the jokey ending, but I can’t help but read it straight. Like, yeah, it is better for her to go in and deal with whatever may come than deal with a man knowingly and intentionally messing with her greatest fears and insecurities in the middle of a panic attack. I’ve definitely done what I needed to do to get away from someone making a bad situation worse when I’m in a vulnerable state when I am able.
It does not mean that person who made the situation worse somehow did me a favor because I’m now doing things dangerous to my mental health to get away from them.
And seeing folks cheer Mike for that. I don’t blame them for loving it and having that resonate. But for me, that hurts, which is why I took a while to comment on this one.
Cause yeah, from the other side of the mental health wall, Mike’s actions look WAY different. And that resonates especially close to home as I’ve been limping my way through intense PTSD episodes this last week.
Thank you! I was starting to wonder if it was just me.
Again, on that last bit, that’s my shit and I own that and I wouldn’t want people to feel bad for going “woo Mike” on this one, just trying to explain where I’m coming from on this.
aaand now I’m making connections between this and some stuff I wrote to myself yesterday. Like, yes, she got moving, but we can’t see what that *cost* her. We don’t know how close to that ledge she really was.
and “hey, you know that massive insecurity you are having a panic attack about right now, yeah, it’s 100% true” is the message my therapist unintentionally delivered. like, she’s usually a great therapist, and I expect we’ll sort it out soon, but that was a hell of a mistake.
and still my first reaction to the comic was “lol, that’s our mike”. hmm. either this stuff is easy to miss or I have a blind spot there.
I think one of the reasons why I like* Mike’s actions in this strip is that I don’t read him as saying “Why are you being a whiny little girl about this? Man up and get in there”, and more that it feels like he’s recontextualizing it.
Her anxiety felt like she was nervous about being seen as weird and scary, and Mike’s saying “you’re awesome and scary”. Mike tends to have good instincts about how people act and react to things, after all, he’d probably make a pretty good counselor if he learned how to give a shit about being nice to people.
There’s also the aspect that… he’s treating her like normal. Sure, it’s his normal, aka “biggest possible jerk on campus”, but it’s a normal that Amber’s used to, it could help her feel more normal about herself.
*: Mike is a character that’d only really work well in a strip-a-day comic context, where punchlines need to be had and sometimes plots can happen fast. If I knew him IRL, I’d want nothing to do with him, and I’d find this sort of shit ugly, but in the context of a comic strip, he comes off differently, I guess.
Problem is that what he’s trying to normalise is his own dysfunction, and it’s at her cost. Creating more Mikes proves how right Mike is in his broken savage hostile mind, while damaging people who would’ve been better off without having to deal with him while going through tough times.
I like Mike. He’s a fun character.
(And I actually really like the Own It part.)
(Note: I like the fictional character Mike because I know he is fictional, I do not want a real person to be this mean to real people, in case you were actually wondering.
I always thought this was kind of obvious, but in case it’s not, I wanted to clarify. I also think this goes for everyone else who actually likes Mike as a character.)
Also, Amber’s clothes are cute.
I was going to also comment on her clothes, but was initially hesitant because I didn’t want to seem like I was objectifying her. Now that you’ve said it, however (others may have also, but I didn’t notice)…
I really like that shirt. That’s a nice shirt.
huh. to me, the colours on the shirt look awful, so much that I actually cringed when I first saw it. maybe I just hate orange? or maybe my brain has gotten too critical of clothes in general – I was feeling awful about all the bright colours I like to wear a few weeks ago, and then a friend complimented me on… something clothing-related… so I feel like I need to recalibrate. Or just stop caring what people think of what I wear. but then how do I decide what to wear? silly brain…
Your avatar makes your comment about hating orange a little ironic
I actually kinda agree about the colors. They’re a bit too lightly shaded for me however, not too brightly colored. Mind I’m not a good one for clothing choices, I have a nearly monochrome wardrobe…
Honestly, in support of that, I kind of like Mike as a villain, kind of like how I like Mary as a villain. Like both of those people are awful awful people who do horrible upsetting stuff, but as characters and as foils to the other characters, they have a lot of power. And both say things about the cultures that produce them and how those real life communities treat specific people*.
*Edgelord culture vs folks with mental health, especially those with PTSD and triggers; Fundamentalist Evangelical culture vs queer folks and those insufficiently hateful towards non-christians.
Again, I honestly don’t think people like Mike or Mary exist irl. They’re both so cartoonishly evil. I just don’t think it’s possible for an actual person to be like that.
especially, all the time.
They fucking do. Especially people like Mary. Most Mike’s tend to grow out of that shit in college, but Mary’s are all over the damn place.
I mean, as in, that they don’t seem to “take off” from just being evil. Which I REALLY don’t think people are like. Nobody is always the same. People are sad, angry, happy, envious, but never just the one thing or only the negative things. Mary is less of a cartoon-villain than Mike. Mike does ALL he does (visible in this comic) for just the sake of being an asshole, while Mary was shown to have interested besides her narrow viewpoints (drawing, for one).
*take off time
I love how Mike is being helpful when it counts as almost ever.
That or he’s into milf
Yep, that’s our Mike.
Making awful reality seem more appealing.