“…and now, for Danny, who stood by me faithfully these many years, who cared, made me laugh, coded my Do-List …”
“Oh, I didn’t mind.”
“To Danny, I bequeath . . . a boot to the head. (And one more for Jenny & the Wimp.)”
How is it that there are at least three people on this site that recognize a 30 year old sketch from Canadian Radio?
Is it because The Frantics just made a bunch of pod casts from their CBC work, or is it a love of old vinyl?
Oh man, I’m just getting back into KoL! It’s almost completely different than it was in 2008. I still remember the grey plague and when NS13 went live…
(It’s a free-to-play browser MMO based around stick figures, pop culture references, and silly logic. “Want a cottage for your campsite? Combine a bowl of cottage cheese with some anticheese.” That kind of logic.
I recognize it from 4 on the Floor – the CBC TV show that spotlighted The Frantics and their style of humor. Rick Green is on my list of celebrities that I am happy to have met.
That’s him, but Bill is by far his least work. His stuff with the Frantics, his TVO series, Prisoners of Gravity, and his writing for Steve Smith’s previous series (Smith & Smith, which costarred Steve’s wife, Morag) are all better.
And a World of Warcraft machinima of the earlier sketch in the same series. It was pretty beloved by fanvidders for a time so it was distributed pretty widely via youtube in a few different fandoms. The Ace Attorney one was probably the best one though.
I remember listening to The Frantics on CBC Radio, along with Royal Canadian Air Farce. Then later Air Farce and Four on the Floor on television, followed later by Kids in the Hall.
One of my friends in college back in the early 00’s found it online and fell in love, so we all were subjected to it constantly for about a month straight. And of course, in revenge, I still subject people to it on a fairly regular basis 😀
Honestly if someone called me a six my reaction would be “yeah probably”
Unless they were friends in which case I’d pretend to be offended.
… Weird incongruity that.
Also the basis of human beauty is scientifically theorized to be a face and body closest to average in characteristics.
… So a six would either be above or below average. <o<
… Trying to imagine to what degree a six is on average along the bell curve of average human traits. I've taken this joke to far. …Oh cool it would be off by about 40%ish which is close to one standard deviation. Literally making a six just below the range of about 70% of the population… But that is treating the 40% offset as like an absolute value on the bell, with those deviations averaging 40% away from the average characteristic in either direction. Big or small nose. That makes more sense to me but you could make the case that that average deviation should only be 20% in either direction.
So like the average population is either comprised of 7+s' or like 3/4+s' depending on how you play with that.
I think 7+s' but hey that literally gives an outlook for positive and negative views of humanity.
This random tangent just informed my philosophical views on human beauty. Cool.
Here's a link to show a bell curve with standard deviations and what those numbers are. The bell curve is a representation of traits in a population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation
I got that the traits would differ from the true average on the bell curve of human traits because that would be the ultimate in socially perceived human beauty according to a few studies. So like a “10” would be in the middle of the bell curve for every human trait. Eye distance, size, height, muscle tone in the butt, whatever, everyy part of that persons body would be perfectly average. So a 6 is missing 40% of 10 and their traits would differ from that perfect average by about 40% within any possible deviation that can happen on a living human being.
Sorry, I realized that my other comment was basically a jumble of numbers so I had to try to explain it just a bit with person words. 😛
…And according to that, since that average of a 40% difference can work in either direction on the scale of traits, smaller or larger, bigger or smaller, with the distance from the MIDDLE of the bell curve counting, the number of people who are six or above should be double that at 80% of the population.
With that in mind no one person can have more than a 50% deviation from the average of any one trait, as even if that man has the largest nose someone else has the smallest!
Literally the lowest score a person can get is a 5!!!!
THATS AWESOME!!!
…yes this did keep me up until 4 am why do you ask?
First of all, the theory that as applied to woman specifically, beauty is conformance to average is complete nuts. The depiction of beautiful women skews strongly to the skinny side of average and to the low side of age and to abnormally symmetric features, and that’s just for openers. But let’s accept the theory and the implication that a 6 means 40% are closer and 60% are further away from average. Then one standard deviation from average should be the definition of a 5, not a 6, as 50% of the population is expected to lie within one standard deviation. Further, because the slope of the normal distribution decreases as you approach average, there is a far greater distance between a 5 and a 6 than there is between and 8 and a 9. Additionally, as you note, there are two sides to the curve, but you inexplicably use that as an excuse to double to get the erroneous conclusion that 80% of the population should be a 6 or better, whereas the fact there are two sides of the curve means that you should take half to get the number of people (20%) between a 6 and perfection. So a 6 corrosponds to what would be an 8 in a unimodal distribution. Because of the slope and the 2 sided distribution it can be seen that a 6 is actually a pretty decent rating. Of course beauty under your “scientific” definition would depend on multiple feature curves and not just one, but you seem to fail to realize that this would further undermine your conclusion.
Ok, in the studies the general features of a person were found to be the things most appealing when average. That’s a scientific study, not a “scientific” one, and I’m pretty sure there was more than one. Doesn’t make it a law, but it still used the scientific process and a good data set.
I thought about the things like cultural skews, weight as an example, but really in the face of the sheer mountain of data unaffected by them decided not to overly focus on that. We do make mountains out of mole hills with that stuff, but we also are hyper aware of our own sensitivity to it. If you had a woman with the “perfect” face of sheer average of facial features she’d probably be a “10” even if her weight followed the population average instead of the cultural skew.
Secondly a standard deviation covers about 35% of the population on either side of the average, according to the wikipedia article on it I attached in the first comment.
Thirdly, I actually kind of cut the standard deviation out of the whole process, because if we include everyone who has an AVERAGE set of features that deviate by about 40% from the norm (all traits on their own curve, distance from the location of the human average divided by the total line (normalizing the two sides of the bell as its likely skewed), average of all the resulting percentage) You get 80% of the population. Or 40% of the population if we use the half distance of the bell as the base of the division in that calc. Basically that deviation from the norm includes all possible people within that deviation as all traits within the population would be accounted for.
Fourthly, I freely admit in both the first and final comment that you can end up using the 20% on either side of the average bell curve to identify the upper 40% of the population no mas, in this case by only using the half the bell in which the deviation occurs to average of every possible trait. If you want to use your ten scale as a ten scale you have to. I admit at the end that the first method stops making sense due to this, or at least imply that in my last comment, but don’t regret the process. It was fun using numbers to describe a subjective concept, and to use that to think more deeply on that concept.
Fifthly, look, I appreciate that you are willing to think this through with me, as math is fun and to be enjoyed. But when you write you sound really arrogant and down-putting. I could very well have missed something or gotten something wrong, but just because you don’t get something I said doesn’t mean you need to start j’accuse-ing me of idiocy. I don’t really care in the long run, but that sort of habit will end up burning you, man. Take care.
Actually the guy below made a good point.
This is only focused on average-ness, which the studies linked below point out as a significant independent influencing factor, but there ARE other factors that influence societal beauty.
I am simplifying this to a certain extent.
Read the (last) article yourself to see to what extent!
We discussed this theory (albeit briefly) in art school in regards to portraiture/appeal and my understanding of it was that when they say “average” is considered beautiful they don’t mean in terms of statistics (as in the most common features) but rather “average” meaning “unremarkable” as in, the opposite of “extreme.” Average may not be the exact word choice (I don’t recall if it was used in our class discussion). A better one might be: undramatic or unextreme features. Basically what is being referred to is the idea that no one feature stands out in any significant way (no large nose, small eyes, large lips, etc…everything is just a sort of…middleground). Also symmetry but that’s already been discussed here.
A. That’s a really interesting perspective from a different school.
B. That also sounds like its similar if not the same as statistical averageness? Why are big lips something that stand out, if we don’t have that normal middle ground in our social consciousness? If we all had larger lips those would be normal and thus not extreme, as the art world has apparently already figured out (again cool).
Of course we wouldn’t set un-obtrusive norms at a perfect statistical average, but social animals are actually sensitive enough to get really close.
C. Check out the links below for the studies. A really simple example is the first one which basically changed photos to make them closer to the statistic average for men, and those men rated the altered faces more attractive despite the changes being relatively small. (the link doesn’t have the best shots, but there are others that show great examples on the google. The second one is a huge review on a whole lot of studies on different factors of beauty. I’d love to hear the art perspective on all of that!
Uhm…. Not doubting you, but anthropologist here. The studies I’ve heard said symetricality is what gets judged as beautiful, not the average. If you’ve got a link to that study saying it’s some sort of average, I’d like that, please.
Comment with the links awaiting moderation, but the second article in the link is the interesting! First one was just talking about the one I remembered
I dunno, I’d be super flattered to be called a six, considering what I imagine a 10 looks like. 4 points below *that* and above the average? Hell fricking yeah.
It’s above average if we’re working on a scale from 1 to 10. Considering Rachel was ranked 11, that implies either that Joe considered her so sexy that she broke the scale, or for all we know it could go from 1 to 15.
I think that whole thing got resolved when a fake Lord Sandwich appeared to say that “Is it the creation of a food with several separate ingredients specifically put together so I could be able to hold it all in one hand while I hold my cards in my other hand as I play cards with my friends? If yes, then put my name on it!”
Listen, it’s easy! If you map your food onto a cube, and count how many sides have bread, you can sort all food into either a sandwich, a pizza, a taco, or a burrit—
Because the only woman I recall he actually had sex with so far in the comic was Roz. And given that she intended to bang somebody for the purpose of making a sex tape, I don’t think he was the one tricking and/or manipulating there.
Although if Dina were here, she’d point out that dinosaurs still exist even nowadays, probably. Birds are dinosaurs in any definition of the word that includes both ones like Triceratops and ones like Zhenyuanlong, after all.
Dina is a palaeofan, not somebody with a bag of plastic dinosaurs. This distinction is important to her, not nitpicky.
Your bag of plastic dinosaurs probably also has a saber-toothed cat* and a Rust Monster**. :p
* Not tiger – the saber-toothed cats aren’t panthera, let alone close to tigers.
** The Rust Monster, and several other D&D monsters were created after models were found in bags of plastic ‘dinosaurs’.
Oh, good point that. I was having flashbacks to the panel and having an internal debate over whether or not I wanted to look back to check (answer: not so much). Joe’s hardly noted for being a picture of consistency, but I can’t fault the thinking here.
Also: dammit Amber, be well please, you scared, messed-up kid.
That doesn’t necessarily mean much, though. People generally say they are feeling “in a stabbing” mood rather than “in a slashing mood”. It’s not about accuracy, it’s about conveying that knife action is happening in a concise and slightly joking manner.
Well, if he got eviscerated, then I’d guess that a 6-foot turkey… “slashed him with this: [produces a claw] a six-inch retractable claw, like a razor, on the middle toe. He didn’t bother to bite Ryan’s jugular like a lion, oh no…he slashed at him here [makes slashing motions below Hampsterping’s chest] or here… [above the groin] or maybe across the belly, spilling his intestines. The point is, Ryan was alive when it started to eat him. So, you know…try to show a little respect.”
To avoid confusion with other potentially less awful people who may be either drugged or stabbed, the full legal name of Druggo McStabbed should be used.
This will also remove any extra shame given to the Ryans of the world. They already have to deal with sharing a name with U.S. House Speaker, they’ve got enough on their plate as it is.
Joe seems like he’s teachable. I like that about him.
(Plus, there has to be some self-serving part of him that realizes being the guy who admits fault and buys a ton of baked goods for the dorm is gonna raise his social standing a little.)
Yea, we’ve languished over like, an hour; giving Joe a whole day to think about it, and probably confronted by loads of people telling him why it’s wrong, would give a better result.
I genuinely think that, even though he still has only a shadowy and incomplete idea of what he did wrong, Joe does know that he screwed up and wants to make it right.
Char! Whoa, it’s been, like, five years since she was last in a comic.
Also, this is… a step. I’m not sure what kind of step in the grand scheme of things, but it is an acknowledgement of wrongdoing and an attempt (however flimsy) to make amends, so… prrrrrrogress?
IMO, a quality apology takes 3 steps.
1: Apology with acknowledgement of why what you did is wrong.
2: Actions to fix what you did wrong or help those you hurt.
3: Guarantee to do better in the future.
Joe has hit steps 1 and 2. 3, we haven’t seen a sign of yet, but I am not discounting the possibility, since he’s surrounded by people who can set him straight. Things are looking up for my opinion of Joe.
(To be clear, I’m not saying anyone has to forgive Joe or anything, that’s just my personal metric that I use to separate shitty apologies from good ones when I can’t really decide fairly. It’s turned out pretty accurate IME)
Sounds pretty much like what I think an apology should consist of.
I suppose that during step 1 and 2, there will usually be hints of whether or not step 3 will happen; once you’ve gotten enough experience to read them, so to speak.
I dunno. If he were shown apologizing to any particular girl, that’d be something. But all I see is him sitting sullenly at a table full of donuts with a sign that, more than likely, Danny made.
Jury’s still out for me on how contrite he actually is here.
Sign doesn’t count. It matches the ukelele, so I’m not convinced Danny didn’t make it. I like the suggestion someone made elsewhere, of making the original List into a personal apology to each and every girl mentioned on it. That’d work.
I don’t know, I think that stalking every girl he insulted with that list, just so he can make himself feel better by apologizing, is kind of creepy. This way every girl who wants to can go up to him, and give him a piece of her mind, while feeling safe enough to do so in a public space.
I mean, just imagine if you’re all alone, and this guy whom you don’t really know, just that he was creepy enough to make that list, comes up to you. I can think of plenty girls who’d pretend to accept his apology, just to feel safe and get him to leave them alone
No no, the table idea is good, so long as Joe is an active participant and making his apologies to the girls who come up to it. As it stands I see no active participation from him.
I mean, his apology should be to make his victims feel better rather than himself.
So I figure, Danny was on the right track with the table idea, but yeah Joe just has to accept his part of it, and do the actual work it deserves, rather than just sit there.
Well…this is better than nothing. Plus Danny making Joe do this apology in such a public display does give Joe a small….microscopic taste of the spotlight his gross list shone on every woman he’s encountered since starting school.
I also like that Danny’s publicly involving himself in it. If he’s going to go on being seen as Joe’s friend by the world he needs to demonstrate that he understands the issues and could possibly be trusted to hold Joe to account where needed, and this is a good start.
Nope. Tags say it’s been more than a month and a half since we’ve last seen her. The preview panels on Willis’s Tumblr don’t have her showing up again until October, three months from now.
I got over the suspense surprisingly quickly, but now I’m starting to get really irritated about it. kinda like when you forget to eat, then discover there’s nothing you can eat without spending an hour cooking it first.
After spending 8 months straight experiencing morning sickness and frequently having a 2.5 minute window in which I would be able to prepare and start to eat food before hunger turned to nausea – I still keep my cupboards stocked with food I can start eating quickly, and my baby will be 3 in October.
Hanger is less likely to result in several months in a state of ketosis but perhaps the solution is nonetheless the same? Even if we’re just talkong crackers and some bag seals/tupperware so open packets last a reasonable length of time, and cheese in the fridge… (if we’re talking about nice cheese then this may well fall into the delicious camp…)
at the moment, my emergency-backup food is costco’s black bean burgers. they’re delicious, they just take 2 minutes in the microwave, there’s actual nutrition in there, and if I have any spoons to spare while the microwave is running I can try to round up other burger-like ingredients (bread, cheese, pickled veggies, chipotle mayo…)
Maybe, maybe not. Deleting the local copy is one thing but it’s quite likely to have been copied by several people and could end up back online outside his control (probably with better security). At that point he could attempt to get it taken down via DMCA and whatnot, but then the Streisand effect kicks in which means making the attempt is actually counterproductive rather than helpful. The best gesture of goodwill directly involving the list and the site it’s hosted on would be to remove all ratings and personally identifiable info on each entry and replace each with an individually composed apology for being an ass and an idiot in posting them in the first place.
well, i mean, deleting the local copy would at least stop people being able to find the original source on the internet. like. a lot of people are lazy and would stop there.
a lot of other people aren’t lazy and wouldn’t stop there, but as long as it’s up it’s still easy access
Plus, even if he can’t get rid of every copy that’s been made, he can get rid of the one he has control over. At least then he’d be trying, hence why it’d be a gesture of goodwill, not a ‘solve 100% of the problem’ fix.
I do like the idea of him replacing it with an apology though. That’d be a good thing to do with the space freed by deleting the gross ass initial list. At least, that’s how I feel.
Yep. Any time you post anything online, even if you wanted to delete it, someone already backed up the webpage. That someone may well be waybackmachine.com or something where anyone who wants to can retrieve it.
Nice.to see Char there, if only additionally as a reminder of how far Joe has gone with the list. We don’t even know what floor or.building she lives on, and how Joe may have met her. (I’m guessing via Jacob + Raidah?)
I’m not sure how I feel about this one. I mean, this feels like he’s just kinda going through the motions of trying to make amends and hasn’t actually learned anything.
But on the other hand, at least it’s something, and something’s better than nothing, so… baby steps, I guess?
It looks like he’s finally accepting that he’s done something wrong, which definitely counts as learning something. It took forever and he resisted every step of the way, and it took Danny prodding him to get him to apologize, but actually realizing he’s done something wrong is a critical step.
Well done Joe, kits maybe more of a grand gesture then I would have made (if I was in the same position) but the apology is good but more importantly putting yourself out there for any and all reactions from the women you’ve hurt is a good start
Well nix that – just now realized (after looking at the relevant character links) that she doesn’t wear glasses, it’s just a weird effect of the window’s framework behind her.
eh, why not, I’m just impressed they could build it and set it up so quickly, or if the college actually would let them do that. then again, free donuts.
for some reason i just imagined joe being drunk or super tired and rating a feminine looking guy as a girl on his list suddenly feeling confused realizing he rated a guy on his girl life.
Don’t get me wrong, I WANT very badly for this not to be one, and I’d like to believe that expression of discomfort is him realizing he screwed up on a large llevel, but…this is Joe.
Good question. I forget anything said re Amber and the list. Other Rachel took wonderful exception to Joe’s score of her (and I figure, of the list in general.
It could be Ruth as well, as she also had a very public breakdown recently. Considering how much of an asshole Ruth was to basically everyone, her entry was likely to have been especially hateful.
I don’t think behavior to other people than Joe figured into it.
With the exception of Dorothy, but only because of behavior to Danny (and I suppose she turned Joe down when he made his pass).
I’m actually pretty happy with this as long as he is really owning it, talking/apologizing to the girls who come by and accepting any and all of their anger.
This is the difference, to me, between Joes apology and Ruths apology. Sure Ruth apologised but she also had Billie standing beside her in quite a confrontational pose, almost daring someone to say something (note Billies clenched fist)
Having said that Ruth meant her apology and realises what she did wrong, I’m not sure if Joe gets why he has to apologize, I mean I think he knows he did something wrong but I don’t know if he knows exactly what he did wrong
Billie did that on her own, not because Ruth asked her to. Ruth went into that meeting with the intention of taking any and all anger directed at her.
If she hadn’t needed to get Billie away from Rachel before a fistfight broke out, she might have stood there for even more of Rachel’s abuse, at the cost of her fragile mental health.
I thought that was the comic Puckish was referring to as well, but it turned out that they’re talking about the moment when Ruth first came back from the hospital.
I obviously did not actually click the link before replying, but I’d say Billie’s aggressively protective stance was actually extremely justified in that strip. Ruth had only just gotten back from the hospital, and Mary – who helped put her there – was standing right there and smirking.
Ruth owed everyone an apology. She gave as much of one as she could manage at the time, and followed it up later (though she still probably sooner than was wise), complete with giving everyone (who chose to attend, at least) the chance to vent their anger at her. Billie was absolutely right to discourage anyone who might’ve decided to tear into Ruth right then and there.
With Joe’s personality, I think baby steps are the best we can hope for. And I think this is a really good one. Between this incident and his new friendship with Joyce, I really hope that we’ll get to see him grow a bit.
Also, donuts make the world a better place. Humanity did right when we created donuts.
Does Danny have the cash for a custom sign and the hardware to set it up? I have trouble picturing his parents giving him a lot of cash. I can barely picture them cosigning a college loan.
At some point I’m wondering when the Rule of Funny comes into play here. That sign, and the neatly-dressed table skirt (with visible Velcro attachment) is simply way funnier than a piece of cardboard with a hand-scrawled message.
On the one hand, this can’t possibly make it right.
…. on the other hand, as far as I can tell, this is the closest that they can get to making it right. So full marks. (Er, half marks, because it’s make-up work.)
And on the third-hand, I’m pretty sure that “Bean-bag with glasses” is Amber, so DEFINITELY be extra-sorry to the woman who eviscerated Druggo McStabbed. OR ELSE.
(Or, er, maybe not, because she might not like everyone suddenly being intimidated and/or worshipful because of the dark side she was forced to unleash in justified but reluctant self-defense. Or maybe she does? Crap. This is why humans need to come with instruction manuals.)
True. Joe is at the age where words are often more grandiose and/or flamboyant than their context. Not to say that just slicing him up without spilling organs isn’t extreme and dangerous in its own right. There’s also a chance that he is using a $5 word with an assumed meaning. Either way, it does give me hope that Amber didn’t end up killing him.
Since Amber was not editing his sexist speech or performing an emergency appendectomy, odds are she made an organ or organs that was supposed to be inside him no longer be inside of him maybe with a slash to the abdomen. Survivable with fast emergency care and surgery, but he will be in rough shape. Long list of possible complications. Man… no wonder Dorothy looked so shocked and horrified.
* No. I’m not a serial killer. I just have a lot of medical personnel in my family and was going in the field myself before I became disabled. 😛
Also, and probably covered under one of those definitions, a sea cucumber’s defense mechanism, in which it literally shoots its own respiratory system out of its multipurpose orifice at a predator to scare it away.
Lol I had to look up “ESL” as an ESL reader 😀 (But not eviscerate, because words of latin origin are way easier to understand than lots of commonplace words)
I mean, this was almost an Tiny Toons or Animaniacs-level of “solution to problem” cut right there. And while DoA obviously has gags and funniness, this was unexpected.
Second reaction: Dina. Dina makes everything better.
Third reaction: Joe’s bought at least six dozen donuts, possibly more hidden behind the table. There’s a lot of people he owes an apology to.
Four: Danny’s allowed to play the ukulele. This is actually meaningful, in that Joe’s now relying on New Danny’s newfound strengths for help. Take that, everyone who didn’t think that the ukulele would be good for Danny!
Five: Like everyone says, this is baby steps. And yeah, one cannot fully ignore that Joe’s doing this display so he can be seen in public as remorseful more than truly being remorseful… But at the same time, it’s equally hard to ignore that he is trying.
Well, Joe has in the past tried doing damage control where it seems more important that his public image is not harmed rather than actually regretting his actions. That’s the sort of thing I was thinking about when I made that comment.
This….actually works as an apology. Also, Willis, your kids are super adorable beating up that Transformer toy and I’m so happy they’re both doing good healthwise.
I’m a fan of dramatic public displays, and of free donuts. If Joe changes his behaviour, then this was a good step.
The wording is clearly mostly Danny’s (what with citing poor security as a major part of the transgression), but still, sitting in public to make amends is pretty good! I’ll be generous and assume that sitting in public with Reparation Donuts was Joe’s idea (since Danny is usually pretty shy). Joe’s acknowledging that he screwed up, he looks contrite and is prepared to get yelled at for it, and he’s making a gesture that says he wishes he could make it up to them. He’s not asking for anything in return, which implies that it’s OK if they don’t forgive him.
The strength of this apology depends entirely upon how well Joe can behave in the future. He could make this his turning point, or not. Either way, donuts.
You know, I’m disappointed. When Dina was playing the piano Willis actually used the music from “Jurassic Park” (and the theme from “Barney”) to show what she was playing , and when Carla was creating her Rube Goldberg machine he showed her actually whistling the leit-motif from “1812 Overture”. But for Danny’s uke playing, he just puts up some random notes instead of something recognizable like “Aloha ‘Oe” or “Sweet Leilani” or even “TipToe Through the Tulips”.
Sorry, sir. I noted the chord registrations earlier and even commented on them, but I’m a piano player myself so I’m used to reading — and being able to whistle or play — actual notes and staves.
Sorry, sir. I noted the chord registrations earlier and even commented on them, but I’m a piano player myself so I’m used to reading — and being able to whistle or play — actual notes and staves.
So there’s been some fair criticism of Danny’s persistant friendship with Joe in face of his terribadness, But he seems to be assuming the implication it puts on him- like not even questioning the, idk, guilt by association. And Joe is getting off too easy having Danny’s friendhsip, support, and action, but this is BETTER than the alternative.
Is gud. I leik
Dorothy is ranked a seven. It’s unlikely that he’d give someone he’d describe as a ‘beanbag’ a seven. Also not likely Amber, since she’s physically very like Dorothy.
These donuts could be awesome exceot for this jackass badly playing the ukulele and completely ruining my appetite.
And glazed donuts? Only glazed donuts, Joe? That is like inviting everyone for pizza and then only ordering it with cheese.
Your apology rates a 2. You are officially a 2.
I should elaborate. Calling her out in particular would be of questionable merit anyway, by name or otherwise. But that critique also applies to what he wrote here. So, on top of singling her out with a pretty derogatory description, he also dodged using her name in a humanizing way at all.
Rule of funny: “potato with glasses” is much funnier than “Rachel” (or, if it wasn’t Other Rachel, a random feminine name).
Also he’s specifically sorry about calling her that.
If he used her name, any morbidly curious dormmates would go look up that nasty rating, to find out what necessitated a special call-out on the sign. It’s better to just give the punchline instead of click-baiting his list.
Yeah, he describes her as a ‘beanbag’…and feels that even beyond that, his description of her warrants a special apology…seems unlikely he’d engage with her enough to know her name.
Genuine question re logistics: Are all the names on the doors still, and did Joe see that? (And would he care to notice Rachel’s name and act like he already knew it from previous interaction or a shared class or such?)
But that was for about every door shown, which I take t mean about every roomie pairing Willis created. I’m sure it’s there in Whiteboard Sing Song Bandit. (I left the predictive text there.)
This is a small step for Joe. I wouldn’t say this is a full apology, because Joe hasn’t accepted entirely why the list was so bad, why he shouldn’t have made one, why he shouldn’t have used it to try to manipulate or punish people with it, why he shouldn’t have treated women as targets.
This is improving the moods of a few of probably the least upset women and likely a few of the more moderately upset as well. The most upset and most hurt aren’t going to feel better at all because he gave away some free donuts and it hasn’t made up for anxiety these women may be feeling now.
Kind of hoping he ends up offering some kind of service which would force him to confront how unsafe he made women feel because I would be bloody terrified.
Ehhh… I appreciate the effort, Joe, but this kind of comes across as a “I’m sorry because they’re making me say it” apology. Still, I suppose nobody would say no to free donuts. 😉
Plus it’s apologizing for the wrong things on top of that. When he thinks of what he did wrong it’s just that it was “mean” and that it got out, not really ready yet to actually examine the toxic rat king of misogyny and entitlement that was the actual issue.
World views are slow to change. Most of them are self-reinforcing in many redundant ways. Remove one piece of the world view, and the rest of the structure picks up the slack without much trouble. Remove a few more, and the rest soldier on with difficulty. It’s only when ENOUGH bits and pieces get taken out of the system that the whole thing collapses under its own weight and a general reassessment occurs.
This here was Item One or Item Two being removed. No, Joe isn’t reassessing everything yet. But I wouldn’t expect that. It’s going to take a few more crises for him to take a deeper look at EVERYTHING he’s doing wrong, rather than one or two items in isolation. But this partial apology and partial acknowledgement for one specific detail rather than for the whole enchilada is a sign that he’s taken the first few steps in the right direction.
Leaving aside the morality of Joe’s list, how much security is “enough”? It seems reasonable to me that if what you are protecting could be harmful if exposed then the answer is “more than zero”, but how do you determine how much more? Or put another way, how do you determine that your level of security is socially irresponsible given whatever it is that you are protecting?
What are we to make of the fact that Char is standing directly behind Dina? The last time they met (which was also the first time they met) Char referred to her using a mean and socially unacceptable epithet.
This is sweet. Like, they just blew up at each other, Danny with far more anger than he’s shown anyone, Joe going low against deep insecurities. It would be easy for this to be the permanent end to their friendship and in most situations it would be.
But Danny doesn’t like letting go of things until the bitter end and he wants everyone to get along.
Panel 1: And while he’s bringing it back down, he also is a good egg and wants to do right by the people harmed, even if he doesn’t know what it looks like, he wants to do right. And he wants Joe to care about doing right.
Panel 2: And predictably Joe’s first response is to displace and dodge responsibility. No shutting down the list or promising not to do it again or showing real remorse for the clear and present danger there was, just excuses and excuses. It’s already out, besides there’s security, besides there was a sexual predator but he got ultra mega stabbed, besides besides besides.
It’s his default and it’s something that will have to change before too long because it’s unsustainable and harming people and because one can’t stonewall owning the consequences of one’s actions forever.
*And oof, it sounds like Ryan was the one dragged off, but describing him as “eviscerated”, I worry deeply about Amber and how fucked her mental health is and whether or not she’s in jail.
Panel 3: And I love Danny’s line here because it’s the perfect counter to that abdication of responsibility. What could we do? Not nothing. Not standing on the sidelines tsking under one’s teeth going too bad. But something.
Now, in time, he’ll learn to follow the leads of the marginalized and support them when he feels that he needs to do “something”. But all that goodness stems from that initial moment. Seeing injustice, noticing the harm done by privilege, and deciding to do something about it rather than just turn away and treat it as someone else’s shit.
And it’s why he’ll be a good egg eventually. And maybe he can drag Joe along with him in time.
Panel 4: And this moment, I love this moment, because for the first time Joe isn’t running, isn’t making excuses. And it would be so easy to. But for the first or second time he weighs his friendship with Danny against this fucked up toxic system he has enmeshed himself in and he decides to do right by Danny instead.
And it’ll be moments like this that’ll lead him out of the toxic pit he’s fallen into if he wants to escape.
Panel 5: And this… it’s not great. Like, yay donuts, but it’s not a deleting of the list or a promise for lasting change or treatment of women as people. And it doesn’t even acknowledge the worst aspects of the list or what was harmful, just calling it “mean” as if the problem with it was that he was making fun of people rather than turning people into objects and putting them at risk. Not to mention it apologizes for “bad security” instead of being the type of ignoramus to make a list in the first place and make it publicly accessible at all.
It’s missing the point entirely. But for Joe, it’s a step. It’s an acknowledgment, however small, that he did something wrong that needs to be made right. He’s got a long climb ahead of him and will have to learn to accept more hard introspection of the kind he’s not going to be fully comfortable with, but it’s a step in the right direction rather than continuing to dig that hole.
I really don’t know why folks keep guessing Amber on this. I think beanbag is a physical description. If it isn’t Other Rachel (whom he rated a 3), I think it’s probably someone fat.
Because she may be the figure of the most fear, since she was (probably) arrested for attacking Ryan outside the dorm. She also tends to wear shapeless, baggy clothing, the kind that would make her look bigger than she is.
I don’t know why this didn’t occur to me before, but it should’ve been the first problem with this theory. Amber literally cannot see this sign, and both Danny and Joe are well-aware of that fact. It cannot be for her.
Her not being able to see it wouldn’t stop it from being about her. If it is her, being apologetic in a way that can be read by those who have decoded the description on the list is a good thing.
(he’s still not getting it, per Cerb, but it’s as far as these two are likely to get for a while without some quality sit-down time with Leslie, and (a) that’s not her job [of course which: it’s not ANYONE’s job, LEARN you goobers], and (b) she’s got enough on her plate just now as it is.)
Look, Danny knows Amber very personally. If Joe wanted to apologize to Amber, this would be the worst possible way to do it: on a sign she’s not going to see, by a pseudonym?
Beanbag is not a descriptor that makes any sense when applied to Amber, so people have been arguing it’s an apology because of what Amber went through, but it really seems like folks are forgetting that Joe has a way to apologize to Amber much more directly.
This sign would also be an extra crummy apology if it were directed at Dorothy. The only way it doesn’t _completely_ suck is if it’s an apology to someone Joe has no existing connection to.
Joe sort of commented on Amber before (or her alter-ego Amazigirl, where he rated her as a ‘9’. Now, this may be due to him thinking she might have ‘issues’ that translate to ‘insane sex’, but I doubt she would have been rated that high if she thought she was a “beanbag”.
What I really want to know is how Joe deals with the women who approaches the table. Does he go with Becky’s “Yeah, I’m a butt. Sorry. have a doughnut”? That would be good.
Does he go with the answer he gave Joyce and Rachel, Mandy and other Rachel (defensive, sarcastic, doubling down on the bullshit). That would be not good.
And it doesn’t even acknowledge the worst aspects of the list or what was harmful, just calling it “mean” as if the problem with it was that he was making fun of people rather than turning people into objects and putting them at risk. Not to mention it apologizes for “bad security” instead of being the type of ignoramus to make a list in the first place and make it publicly accessible at all.
I think apologizing for “making a mean list, and putting it behind bad security” is in fact intended as an apology “for being the type of ignoramus to make the list in the first place and making it publicly accessible”.
Like, it’s not an eloquent apology, but I think those words in that order… are an apology for exactly the things they should be.
I think Meta, below, made a good point. That for people like Joe, “objectifying” and “degrading” aren’t… meaningful concepts, at least not yet. “Mean” may be the softest possible word for the list, but it’s also a real word for Joe, a word that acknowledges the list was morally wrong.
People can argue for hours and hours about whether or not something “qualifies” as objectification; and every time there’s been a strip about this list, we’ve had lengthy arguments about whether or not it’s really “that bad”, whether or not it’s really “misogyny”, whether “all genders do it”, on and on and on.
Joe (or more likely Danny, but Joe is sitting at the table and presumably accepted the sign’s wording) is cutting through all of that by just plain owning up to the fact that the list was mean, that it hurt people. Instead of trying to have a semantic argument about the list “actually empowering women by giving them more opportunities to get laid” (someone somewhere, somehow, would make this argument), the sign just admits that the list was a bad idea, and should not have existed.
No one needs to accept Joe’s apology. Particularly not the readers. But I think that a sign that more clearly enunciated the exact problems with the list would be more performative than sincere, from someone like Joe.
One might even hope that having the cartoonist unambiguously call the list Bad would also end comment section debates about that, but my hopes are very slim there. 😉
I am in agreement here .Given the space limitations, there are only so many words to be fit on a sign in a comic, and what’s put there what gets the points across.
Good public start, and I expect someone in IU will post it on their Facebooks or etc, and Joe just has to accept that.
Tangentially, unless it’s going to be annotated like a Shakespeare play, we can’t expect Willis to note every thought going thru a character’s head, even in the way one day in DofA comic-time can take 60 or 110 strips. And how encounters are broken into daily bits for humor or.drama, sometimes the only thing to do is wait for several days of conversation as a whole.
Like that donut came into the atmosphere, hit Earth, and created a crater sending up tons of skill and ash and dust, altering the climate and leading to theeventual extinction of her entire taxonomic genus?
I feel like the fact that he used the word ‘mean’ sort of implies that this apology was written by him and not Danny, and that it might even be a little sincere. If he wanted to do a fake apology, he probably would have gone for ‘objectifying’ or ‘degrading’ or some other word that he knows is bad from Leslie’s class, but that he doesn’t actually believe is bad.
I don’t know if anyone is reading this. But I just spent the last three days reading this from page 1. I do not know if I should be proud or ashamed of reading 7 years of comics in 3 days but all I know is that I need another comic to binge read now, waiting sucks
Heh. I binged through the entire works of Dave Willis, Jeph Jacques, Pete Abrams, Fred Gallagher, David Morgan-Mar and a few others across a couple months back in (I think) 2011. It’s a reasonably normal thing to do with this type of long runner comic.
Such good stuff. I wonder why Hollywood bothers rebooting old stuff, when they could show some serious $$ love for web comic artists/writers who after all, have practically created scene-by-scene storyboards and dialog.
I hope artists profit from print works, because I buy those when I can. Now I’m trying to figure out how to use Patreon without it being hooked into Facebook.
On a complete tangent, here’s my alternate poll to Dave Willis’s current poll, because one option was clearly being omitted. https://strawpoll.com/xbcga9rs
I’m a big believer in having to atone for your sins so this is a good start for Joe to allow the women hes hurt the opportunity to let him know exactly what he did and the more uncomfortable it makes Joe the better he’ll learn his lesson and, hopefully, some empathy
Its a good first step and I’m really looking forward to when Joe steps back into the gender studies classroom, like will Joe actively listen, will he get more, deserved flak from the class, how will Leslie react especially given her latest interactions
Off-topic-ish but, the past week or so, when trying to view the comic I occasionally encounter a problematic ad. It’s the square one in the sidebar to the right of the newspost. The ad in question is this weird “your computer has the Zeus virus!” or something warning made to look like a windows warning popup, and it also plays a sound speaking the same warning.
I figured I’d post it here as I wasn’t sure how to report the ad, as every time that one pops up it freezes my browser & I have to just do a hard restart.
If students there are similar to students in Mexico this strategy may actually be a more effective one (A nickname here for students is “estudiambres” is a contraction of hungry and students… so you can imagine the effect free donuts can have)
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well shit, *I’d* forgive him for a free doughnut
Joe: “I rated you a 6”
…FREE DOUGHNUT
Better be a good donut, though.
Like the kind my mom used to make for Xmas. Those were some -real- donuts.
Maybe not a good solution, but better than a boot to the head.
And one for Jenny and the wimp.
(They get the last donut before Beef shows up and have to share.)
“…and now, for Danny, who stood by me faithfully these many years, who cared, made me laugh, coded my Do-List …”
“Oh, I didn’t mind.”
“To Danny, I bequeath . . . a boot to the head. (And one more for Jenny & the Wimp.)”
How is it that there are at least three people on this site that recognize a 30 year old sketch from Canadian Radio?
Is it because The Frantics just made a bunch of pod casts from their CBC work, or is it a love of old vinyl?
I personally recognize it because of Radio KOL.
RKOL is also why I have a Pavlovian urge to say “that’s ridiculous, it’s not even funny” whenever I see or hear the number eleven in any context….
…which of course is ridiculous and not even funny.
I personally recognize it because I’m old. At the time it got wide play.
Oh man, I’m just getting back into KoL! It’s almost completely different than it was in 2008. I still remember the grey plague and when NS13 went live…
(It’s a free-to-play browser MMO based around stick figures, pop culture references, and silly logic. “Want a cottage for your campsite? Combine a bowl of cottage cheese with some anticheese.” That kind of logic.
It’s been a meme for years.
Also, they did it on their TV show, so it’s also on YouTube. Both in the form of the TV sketch, and several animations (mostly using the longer version), like the Phoenix Wright one, which is my favourite.
Yeah, the Phoenix Wrong one is where I found it.
I recognize it from 4 on the Floor – the CBC TV show that spotlighted The Frantics and their style of humor. Rick Green is on my list of celebrities that I am happy to have met.
It didn’t really ‘spotlight’ them…it was their show.
Rick Green, aka “Adventures with Bill*” from The Red Green Show?
(*Obligatory <a href"http://classicredgreen.weebly.com/uploads/2/8/3/2/2832377/6943948.jpg" title="unreassuring thumbs-up goes here".)
That’s him, but Bill is by far his least work. His stuff with the Frantics, his TVO series, Prisoners of Gravity, and his writing for Steve Smith’s previous series (Smith & Smith, which costarred Steve’s wife, Morag) are all better.
Okay I gotta scour the innertubes for more.of his work. Thanks!
(i have far too many Red Green items, as US citizen, to pretend I’m not in that cult.)
I know of it from a Ace Attorney fan video that has it, I imagine that’s how most people know it.
^ This.
And a World of Warcraft machinima of the earlier sketch in the same series. It was pretty beloved by fanvidders for a time so it was distributed pretty widely via youtube in a few different fandoms. The Ace Attorney one was probably the best one though.
It’s because the Frantics were the most amazing thing on the radio in Canada at the time.
I remember listening to The Frantics on CBC Radio, along with Royal Canadian Air Farce. Then later Air Farce and Four on the Floor on television, followed later by Kids in the Hall.
Doctor Demento.
Same.
One of my friends in college back in the early 00’s found it online and fell in love, so we all were subjected to it constantly for about a month straight. And of course, in revenge, I still subject people to it on a fairly regular basis 😀
Could be the comic has a wide age range of readers.
Dr Demento’s 20th anniversary CD
1. I’m OLD.
2. I blame Dr. Demento (and my father) for putting all kinds of novelty bits into my head
I, too, am old and Canadian.
Is there such a thing as a bad doughnut?
Six is above average…
Honestly if someone called me a six my reaction would be “yeah probably”
Unless they were friends in which case I’d pretend to be offended.
… Weird incongruity that.
Still its a good start, donuts.
Also the basis of human beauty is scientifically theorized to be a face and body closest to average in characteristics.
… So a six would either be above or below average. <o<
… Trying to imagine to what degree a six is on average along the bell curve of average human traits. I've taken this joke to far. …Oh cool it would be off by about 40%ish which is close to one standard deviation. Literally making a six just below the range of about 70% of the population… But that is treating the 40% offset as like an absolute value on the bell, with those deviations averaging 40% away from the average characteristic in either direction. Big or small nose. That makes more sense to me but you could make the case that that average deviation should only be 20% in either direction.
So like the average population is either comprised of 7+s' or like 3/4+s' depending on how you play with that.
I think 7+s' but hey that literally gives an outlook for positive and negative views of humanity.
This random tangent just informed my philosophical views on human beauty. Cool.
Here's a link to show a bell curve with standard deviations and what those numbers are. The bell curve is a representation of traits in a population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation
I got that the traits would differ from the true average on the bell curve of human traits because that would be the ultimate in socially perceived human beauty according to a few studies. So like a “10” would be in the middle of the bell curve for every human trait. Eye distance, size, height, muscle tone in the butt, whatever, everyy part of that persons body would be perfectly average. So a 6 is missing 40% of 10 and their traits would differ from that perfect average by about 40% within any possible deviation that can happen on a living human being.
Sorry, I realized that my other comment was basically a jumble of numbers so I had to try to explain it just a bit with person words. 😛
…And according to that, since that average of a 40% difference can work in either direction on the scale of traits, smaller or larger, bigger or smaller, with the distance from the MIDDLE of the bell curve counting, the number of people who are six or above should be double that at 80% of the population.
With that in mind no one person can have more than a 50% deviation from the average of any one trait, as even if that man has the largest nose someone else has the smallest!
Literally the lowest score a person can get is a 5!!!!
THATS AWESOME!!!
…yes this did keep me up until 4 am why do you ask?
Course you account for that and adjust the scale so all numbers can be used and it all goes to shit.
Shut up let me have this.
First of all, the theory that as applied to woman specifically, beauty is conformance to average is complete nuts. The depiction of beautiful women skews strongly to the skinny side of average and to the low side of age and to abnormally symmetric features, and that’s just for openers. But let’s accept the theory and the implication that a 6 means 40% are closer and 60% are further away from average. Then one standard deviation from average should be the definition of a 5, not a 6, as 50% of the population is expected to lie within one standard deviation. Further, because the slope of the normal distribution decreases as you approach average, there is a far greater distance between a 5 and a 6 than there is between and 8 and a 9. Additionally, as you note, there are two sides to the curve, but you inexplicably use that as an excuse to double to get the erroneous conclusion that 80% of the population should be a 6 or better, whereas the fact there are two sides of the curve means that you should take half to get the number of people (20%) between a 6 and perfection. So a 6 corrosponds to what would be an 8 in a unimodal distribution. Because of the slope and the 2 sided distribution it can be seen that a 6 is actually a pretty decent rating. Of course beauty under your “scientific” definition would depend on multiple feature curves and not just one, but you seem to fail to realize that this would further undermine your conclusion.
Ok, in the studies the general features of a person were found to be the things most appealing when average. That’s a scientific study, not a “scientific” one, and I’m pretty sure there was more than one. Doesn’t make it a law, but it still used the scientific process and a good data set.
I thought about the things like cultural skews, weight as an example, but really in the face of the sheer mountain of data unaffected by them decided not to overly focus on that. We do make mountains out of mole hills with that stuff, but we also are hyper aware of our own sensitivity to it. If you had a woman with the “perfect” face of sheer average of facial features she’d probably be a “10” even if her weight followed the population average instead of the cultural skew.
Secondly a standard deviation covers about 35% of the population on either side of the average, according to the wikipedia article on it I attached in the first comment.
Thirdly, I actually kind of cut the standard deviation out of the whole process, because if we include everyone who has an AVERAGE set of features that deviate by about 40% from the norm (all traits on their own curve, distance from the location of the human average divided by the total line (normalizing the two sides of the bell as its likely skewed), average of all the resulting percentage) You get 80% of the population. Or 40% of the population if we use the half distance of the bell as the base of the division in that calc. Basically that deviation from the norm includes all possible people within that deviation as all traits within the population would be accounted for.
Fourthly, I freely admit in both the first and final comment that you can end up using the 20% on either side of the average bell curve to identify the upper 40% of the population no mas, in this case by only using the half the bell in which the deviation occurs to average of every possible trait. If you want to use your ten scale as a ten scale you have to. I admit at the end that the first method stops making sense due to this, or at least imply that in my last comment, but don’t regret the process. It was fun using numbers to describe a subjective concept, and to use that to think more deeply on that concept.
Fifthly, look, I appreciate that you are willing to think this through with me, as math is fun and to be enjoyed. But when you write you sound really arrogant and down-putting. I could very well have missed something or gotten something wrong, but just because you don’t get something I said doesn’t mean you need to start j’accuse-ing me of idiocy. I don’t really care in the long run, but that sort of habit will end up burning you, man. Take care.
Actually the guy below made a good point.
This is only focused on average-ness, which the studies linked below point out as a significant independent influencing factor, but there ARE other factors that influence societal beauty.
I am simplifying this to a certain extent.
Read the (last) article yourself to see to what extent!
We discussed this theory (albeit briefly) in art school in regards to portraiture/appeal and my understanding of it was that when they say “average” is considered beautiful they don’t mean in terms of statistics (as in the most common features) but rather “average” meaning “unremarkable” as in, the opposite of “extreme.” Average may not be the exact word choice (I don’t recall if it was used in our class discussion). A better one might be: undramatic or unextreme features. Basically what is being referred to is the idea that no one feature stands out in any significant way (no large nose, small eyes, large lips, etc…everything is just a sort of…middleground). Also symmetry but that’s already been discussed here.
A. That’s a really interesting perspective from a different school.
B. That also sounds like its similar if not the same as statistical averageness? Why are big lips something that stand out, if we don’t have that normal middle ground in our social consciousness? If we all had larger lips those would be normal and thus not extreme, as the art world has apparently already figured out (again cool).
Of course we wouldn’t set un-obtrusive norms at a perfect statistical average, but social animals are actually sensitive enough to get really close.
C. Check out the links below for the studies. A really simple example is the first one which basically changed photos to make them closer to the statistic average for men, and those men rated the altered faces more attractive despite the changes being relatively small. (the link doesn’t have the best shots, but there are others that show great examples on the google. The second one is a huge review on a whole lot of studies on different factors of beauty. I’d love to hear the art perspective on all of that!
Uhm…. Not doubting you, but anthropologist here. The studies I’ve heard said symetricality is what gets judged as beautiful, not the average. If you’ve got a link to that study saying it’s some sort of average, I’d like that, please.
Sure! Thanks for asking.
There’s evidence for both of those things.
Humans are complex.
I focused on one factor for the sake of simplicity (and because I was only thinking of this study particularly http://www.medicaldaily.com/science-attraction-men-perceive-women-average-youthful-facial-features-beautiful-342688 as well as some other stuff) but thats a good point!
This article covers a lot of the factors
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130383/
Comment with the links awaiting moderation, but the second article in the link is the interesting! First one was just talking about the one I remembered
Yeah. And five…is just MEAN *finger guns*
I dunno, I’d be super flattered to be called a six, considering what I imagine a 10 looks like. 4 points below *that* and above the average? Hell fricking yeah.
It’s above average if we’re working on a scale from 1 to 10. Considering Rachel was ranked 11, that implies either that Joe considered her so sexy that she broke the scale, or for all we know it could go from 1 to 15.
He told her it was eleven out of ten.
Alright. I must’ve missed that part. Thanks for the clarification.
In that case, take two doughnuts. And a bearclaw.
Wow, well then what would you do for a Klondike bar?
not a lot, I don’t like shell on my ice cream 🤔
Do or donut, there is no try.
Donut underestimate the power of the jam side
Be careful not to choke on your glazepirations.
I’m just glad Joe is choosing to be kinder, when he could be cruller.
“I’m sorry I tricked and manipulated women into sleeping with me. I’m a totally apologizing with these bae-gulls.”
“Uh….. wait…. was that a pun? These are donuts?”
“Donuts are bagels, from a certain point of view.”
Is this going to be the new sandwich discussion?
Noooo….. but if you’re the sort to count wraps as a sandwich, what about chocolate-filled croissants?
I think that whole thing got resolved when a fake Lord Sandwich appeared to say that “Is it the creation of a food with several separate ingredients specifically put together so I could be able to hold it all in one hand while I hold my cards in my other hand as I play cards with my friends? If yes, then put my name on it!”
Alas, there is no Lord Donut to set things awryt.
(Yes, that was on purpose.)
Listen, it’s easy! If you map your food onto a cube, and count how many sides have bread, you can sort all food into either a sandwich, a pizza, a taco, or a burrit—
Is brained by low-hanging fruit.
…… so, bearing in mind that you set this up as an either/or, what does a plain slice of bread count as?
@ reltzik: schroedinger’s sandwich. Or a pre-sandwich. Or both. Both is good.
Now I want a bagel dog. Do you know how long it’s been since I had a bagel dog?
Jelly donuts are a kind of ravioli.
“Donuts are bagels”
…
(eyes narrow slowly)
That works strangely well with your gravatar.
Who did he trick and/or manipulate?
Because the only woman I recall he actually had sex with so far in the comic was Roz. And given that she intended to bang somebody for the purpose of making a sex tape, I don’t think he was the one tricking and/or manipulating there.
And his teacher but getting mad at him for that would be victim blaming.
If we donut try, we donut do; and if we donut do, then why are we here?
I donut know
I have an overpowering urge to pelt you all with Timbits.
mmmm, timbits. (damnit, now I want timbits. but I bought an excessive quantity of grapes, and feel obligated to eat them first.)
https://youtu.be/qD2rU7cMSEs?t=456
Dunk them in coffee or tea – napkins are always free!
now if a customer chokes on a donut
the law requires that you assist them
Agatha and Dina continue the trend of them being the best
Check out those teeth on Dina, holy smokes.
Velociraptor is a fierce predator when confronted with its natural prey, the jelly doughnut.
That is the truth.
It never occurred to me before, but logically Dina must be somewhere on Joe’s list.
I assume she is called “Awesome Dinosaur Chick” and got a score of 65 million?
Anywhere between 247 and 65.5 million, if we’re being accurate.
…I just got that.
Although if Dina were here, she’d point out that dinosaurs still exist even nowadays, probably. Birds are dinosaurs in any definition of the word that includes both ones like Triceratops and ones like Zhenyuanlong, after all.
*slowclap*
I assume Dina has her own list, rating dinosaurs.
I would say Dina respects dinosaurs more than Joe respects women, and as such she doesn’t.
They all have perfect scores accompanied by a minimum ten paragraph discussion of why they have perfect scores.
Pterodactyl has a score of 0 followed by the two words “Not dinosaur”.
They’re all good dinos, Bagge.
This actually describes how I rated kittens on that ratemykitten site. (Is that still a thing?) All kittens get 10s. All non-kittens get 0s.
Don’t rate kittens, John 🙂
I very much doubt that Dina would be so narrow minded.
My bag of plastic dinosaurs included a Pterodactyl and a Dimetrodon.
ahem
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/security/
Dina is a palaeofan, not somebody with a bag of plastic dinosaurs. This distinction is important to her, not nitpicky.
Your bag of plastic dinosaurs probably also has a saber-toothed cat* and a Rust Monster**. :p
* Not tiger – the saber-toothed cats aren’t panthera, let alone close to tigers.
** The Rust Monster, and several other D&D monsters were created after models were found in bags of plastic ‘dinosaurs’.
Struthio camelus: Ratite.
Quick and deadly, but DUMB.
Eyes that plot your death as you sleep.
4/10, would not snuggle.
She’s probably the only girl in the dorm not on the list. Because no one ever sees Dina unless she’s interacting with them.
For some reason there’s a door in their wing with a rating.
Objectophilia! Joe isn’t entirely straight after all. Look at the knockers on that one!
You think Joe would remember stuff that doesn’t have to do with THE LADIES?
Congratulations on your new regeneration, doctor.
“…came up to our dorm to get eviscerated.”
My god, what did Amber do?
Eviscerated him, obviously.
He had viscera, and no he has no viscera
Always field dress your kills. alt-right carcasses start stinking pretty quick. Hell, most of ’em smell pretty terrible while alive, too.
This is Amber. She left the corpse undressed and unlooted to maximize how long the mob took to respawn.
“I thought they smelled bad on the OUTSIDE..”
But what organ(s) do we think she removed? I say left kidney.
With any luck, testicles.
I’m still betting on eyes.
It seems that stabbing was involved.
Looked more like slashing to me?
Me too, but Joe calls him McStabbed, so why not both?
Oh, good point that. I was having flashbacks to the panel and having an internal debate over whether or not I wanted to look back to check (answer: not so much). Joe’s hardly noted for being a picture of consistency, but I can’t fault the thinking here.
Also: dammit Amber, be well please, you scared, messed-up kid.
That doesn’t necessarily mean much, though. People generally say they are feeling “in a stabbing” mood rather than “in a slashing mood”. It’s not about accuracy, it’s about conveying that knife action is happening in a concise and slightly joking manner.
The hard B sound also conveys the image much better.
The image of a bastard being bludgeoned between the balls, bluntly. Rather than shamed, shot, and shafted.
…which takes away from my entire point that the B sound goes at the *end*…
You left out ‘banjo’.
Hey, stabbing and slashing are not mutually exclusive.
A slash or five across the stomach will reveal all sorts of interesting bits much more effectively than a stabby thrust
He asked for it, he got the balls to show up with a knife to Amber and Dorothy and then lost them(figuratevily I presume).
With his own damn dull knife. Carpe viscera.
Either killed him or nearly killed him.
Well, if he got eviscerated, then I’d guess that a 6-foot turkey… “slashed him with this: [produces a claw] a six-inch retractable claw, like a razor, on the middle toe. He didn’t bother to bite Ryan’s jugular like a lion, oh no…he slashed at him here [makes slashing motions below Hampsterping’s chest] or here… [above the groin] or maybe across the belly, spilling his intestines. The point is, Ryan was alive when it started to eat him. So, you know…try to show a little respect.”
It was Amber, not Dina.
Honestly I”m assuming she just kicked his ass. Maybe a lot.
and he is “druggy mcstabbed” so i GUESS that’s his real legal name now, no takebacks
Change the tags!
“druggy”, or “mcstabbed’?
To avoid confusion with other potentially less awful people who may be either drugged or stabbed, the full legal name of Druggo McStabbed should be used.
This will also remove any extra shame given to the Ryans of the world. They already have to deal with sharing a name with U.S. House Speaker, they’ve got enough on their plate as it is.
i don’t know if willis’ tagging system can handle spaces or not, tho
maybe just go with druggomcstabbed. although i feel like mcstabbed has a certain flair to it
That can’t be right. He wouldn’t have the guts.
Well, he had his guts. He doesn’t have them now.
Joe may be exaggerating.
Then again, he may not be.
Oh, Amber…
Accepting as the new normal the hyperbole of most political-“news” web sites, we may take that to mean Amber mildly disagreed with something he said.
Rather surprised Joe’s going along with this.
well its a start and he probably gets to eat the leftovers (assuming there are any(
Joe seems like he’s teachable. I like that about him.
(Plus, there has to be some self-serving part of him that realizes being the guy who admits fault and buys a ton of baked goods for the dorm is gonna raise his social standing a little.)
Yea, we’ve languished over like, an hour; giving Joe a whole day to think about it, and probably confronted by loads of people telling him why it’s wrong, would give a better result.
But damn if it wasn’t a languishment.
He might realize that this is the best chance for getting off of shit lists and back into casually-fuckable territory.
And he may come away from it with some phone numbers….
I genuinely think that, even though he still has only a shadowy and incomplete idea of what he did wrong, Joe does know that he screwed up and wants to make it right.
BenRG gets it.
It’s a start?
It’s the beginning of a start.
It’s the crowdfunding campaign for the beginning of a start.
The rough draft of the script for the video for the crowdfunding campaign for the beginning of a start.
It’s the initial storyboard on a cafeteria napkin used to draft the script for the promo video for the crowdfunding campaign.
Its not the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning.
sorry for being sexist
have some yonic food
Maybe there are krullers too.
Or eclairs, with creamy filling.
#NotAllDonuts
You ever had a walnut crunch? It’s more phallic, if anything.
Char! Whoa, it’s been, like, five years since she was last in a comic.
Also, this is… a step. I’m not sure what kind of step in the grand scheme of things, but it is an acknowledgement of wrongdoing and an attempt (however flimsy) to make amends, so… prrrrrrogress?
The mere acknowledgement that a mistake was made makes him more mature than many politicians.
So obviously we need to Flanderize her as being obsessed with donuts because she finally reemerged when they were being handed out.
……..
…. so she’s a college students?
(Hint to all college students: Attend your department’s colloquia.)
((additional note: google what colloquia means.))
Or just assume it means free food.
yes tht is definitely what it means
And nothing to do with the anatomy of avians in any way.
Isn’t that the part that birds use to have sex with?
That’s a cloaca.
I’m vaguely amused by the fact her reappearance is in a panel with Dina.
IMO, a quality apology takes 3 steps.
1: Apology with acknowledgement of why what you did is wrong.
2: Actions to fix what you did wrong or help those you hurt.
3: Guarantee to do better in the future.
Joe has hit steps 1 and 2. 3, we haven’t seen a sign of yet, but I am not discounting the possibility, since he’s surrounded by people who can set him straight. Things are looking up for my opinion of Joe.
(To be clear, I’m not saying anyone has to forgive Joe or anything, that’s just my personal metric that I use to separate shitty apologies from good ones when I can’t really decide fairly. It’s turned out pretty accurate IME)
Sounds pretty much like what I think an apology should consist of.
I suppose that during step 1 and 2, there will usually be hints of whether or not step 3 will happen; once you’ve gotten enough experience to read them, so to speak.
I dunno. If he were shown apologizing to any particular girl, that’d be something. But all I see is him sitting sullenly at a table full of donuts with a sign that, more than likely, Danny made.
Jury’s still out for me on how contrite he actually is here.
I’d say the bottom of the list was an apology to a particular girl.
Sign doesn’t count. It matches the ukelele, so I’m not convinced Danny didn’t make it. I like the suggestion someone made elsewhere, of making the original List into a personal apology to each and every girl mentioned on it. That’d work.
I don’t know, I think that stalking every girl he insulted with that list, just so he can make himself feel better by apologizing, is kind of creepy. This way every girl who wants to can go up to him, and give him a piece of her mind, while feeling safe enough to do so in a public space.
I mean, just imagine if you’re all alone, and this guy whom you don’t really know, just that he was creepy enough to make that list, comes up to you. I can think of plenty girls who’d pretend to accept his apology, just to feel safe and get him to leave them alone
No no, the table idea is good, so long as Joe is an active participant and making his apologies to the girls who come up to it. As it stands I see no active participation from him.
that I agree with.
I mean, his apology should be to make his victims feel better rather than himself.
So I figure, Danny was on the right track with the table idea, but yeah Joe just has to accept his part of it, and do the actual work it deserves, rather than just sit there.
Yeah, I just updated the F-bomb count on an off day just so I didn’t forget that Char’s appearance count needed to be incremented.
Donuts: the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems! ^_^
We want prohibition! We want prohibition!
…that might actually work.
If he keeps his dumb mouth shut.
…which of course he won’t. >.<
He might if he’s flexible enough to literally put his foot in his mouth.
Well…this is better than nothing. Plus Danny making Joe do this apology in such a public display does give Joe a small….microscopic taste of the spotlight his gross list shone on every woman he’s encountered since starting school.
I like that girl (Char apparently) angrily eating the donut in the background.
I also like that Danny’s publicly involving himself in it. If he’s going to go on being seen as Joe’s friend by the world he needs to demonstrate that he understands the issues and could possibly be trusted to hold Joe to account where needed, and this is a good start.
Yer becoming a better egg, Dan.
Wait. Are you egging him on?
Naw, he doesn’t need to be beaten.
Whipped, maybe?
When a good time turns around
You must whip it
You will never live it down
Unless you whip it
No one gets away
Until they whip it
Wait… have we seen Amber since “the incident”?
We haven’t. Speculation abounds.
Nope and neither did we see Ethan.
Nope. Tags say it’s been more than a month and a half since we’ve last seen her. The preview panels on Willis’s Tumblr don’t have her showing up again until October, three months from now.
GROOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAN. I need to know what happened.
The suspense is just errrggghhhhhhhhhhh.
I got over the suspense surprisingly quickly, but now I’m starting to get really irritated about it. kinda like when you forget to eat, then discover there’s nothing you can eat without spending an hour cooking it first.
After spending 8 months straight experiencing morning sickness and frequently having a 2.5 minute window in which I would be able to prepare and start to eat food before hunger turned to nausea – I still keep my cupboards stocked with food I can start eating quickly, and my baby will be 3 in October.
Hanger is less likely to result in several months in a state of ketosis but perhaps the solution is nonetheless the same? Even if we’re just talkong crackers and some bag seals/tupperware so open packets last a reasonable length of time, and cheese in the fridge… (if we’re talking about nice cheese then this may well fall into the delicious camp…)
at the moment, my emergency-backup food is costco’s black bean burgers. they’re delicious, they just take 2 minutes in the microwave, there’s actual nutrition in there, and if I have any spoons to spare while the microwave is running I can try to round up other burger-like ingredients (bread, cheese, pickled veggies, chipotle mayo…)
…now I want a burger, thanks.
I suggest that you address that anger with mediation.
Focus your mind, and chant the following mantra:
“DammmmmnYooooouuuuWilllisssssss.”
Well that doesn’t mean she won’t show up earlier. Just that she’s still around and (apparently) functioning normally.
With each reference made to Sir Stabbed-a-lot I become increasingly concerned with Amber’s welfare.
Just hers, obviously.
I would like to take this moment to propose that all references to Ryan in the tags be replaced by “Druggo McStabbed”.
Thank you.
I’m concerned with Ryan’s welfare. I’m just not concerned in the same direction.
Now now, even an involuntary kidney donor is still a kidney donor. So he has that much going for him.
If it turned out he donated both kidneys, liver, and other bits, even better.
I mean, by real-time-October she’s back in the dorm. Carla’s chatting with her casually.
Well
He didn’t learn squat, but I guess it’s a start.
Give him some credit, he’s leaned how to pretend that he’s learned something lol
An incredibly valuable lesson that will stand him in good stead for the rest of his life.
And Danny plays “Workin’ My Way Back To You Babe”…
Being the Blank Generation guy I am I prefer The Spinners remake paired with “Forgive Me Girl” to the Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons original.
The Spinners version is definitely better than the original.
Of course!
Me too, and when the situation calls for it, their remake of Cupid is not to be dismissed.
You could always DELETE the stupid ass thing as a gesture of goodwill.
Deleting would be good. Bare minimum, though, if he keeps updating it I’m gonna be pissed.
Maybe, maybe not. Deleting the local copy is one thing but it’s quite likely to have been copied by several people and could end up back online outside his control (probably with better security). At that point he could attempt to get it taken down via DMCA and whatnot, but then the Streisand effect kicks in which means making the attempt is actually counterproductive rather than helpful. The best gesture of goodwill directly involving the list and the site it’s hosted on would be to remove all ratings and personally identifiable info on each entry and replace each with an individually composed apology for being an ass and an idiot in posting them in the first place.
well, i mean, deleting the local copy would at least stop people being able to find the original source on the internet. like. a lot of people are lazy and would stop there.
a lot of other people aren’t lazy and wouldn’t stop there, but as long as it’s up it’s still easy access
Plus, even if he can’t get rid of every copy that’s been made, he can get rid of the one he has control over. At least then he’d be trying, hence why it’d be a gesture of goodwill, not a ‘solve 100% of the problem’ fix.
I do like the idea of him replacing it with an apology though. That’d be a good thing to do with the space freed by deleting the gross ass initial list. At least, that’s how I feel.
and depending on how the RSS feed is set up, maybe it’ll overwrite some of those other copies 🙂
yee
When something goes online it stays there forever.
Yep. Any time you post anything online, even if you wanted to delete it, someone already backed up the webpage. That someone may well be waybackmachine.com or something where anyone who wants to can retrieve it.
only if people actually back up the webpage.
do u know how much fanfiction has been lost to the sands of time because people didn’t wayback machine it???? I CRY.
Except when it doesn’t.
Well at least there’s free doughnuts. That’s something I guess.
Danny is an exceedingly good friend. I hope Joe will deserve him someday.
Certainly is, you might even call him a good egg.
Nice.to see Char there, if only additionally as a reminder of how far Joe has gone with the list. We don’t even know what floor or.building she lives on, and how Joe may have met her. (I’m guessing via Jacob + Raidah?)
I’m not sure how I feel about this one. I mean, this feels like he’s just kinda going through the motions of trying to make amends and hasn’t actually learned anything.
But on the other hand, at least it’s something, and something’s better than nothing, so… baby steps, I guess?
It looks like he’s finally accepting that he’s done something wrong, which definitely counts as learning something. It took forever and he resisted every step of the way, and it took Danny prodding him to get him to apologize, but actually realizing he’s done something wrong is a critical step.
Well done Joe, kits maybe more of a grand gesture then I would have made (if I was in the same position) but the apology is good but more importantly putting yourself out there for any and all reactions from the women you’ve hurt is a good start
I can’t help but wonder if Char is the “bean-bag with glasses”.
Well nix that – just now realized (after looking at the relevant character links) that she doesn’t wear glasses, it’s just a weird effect of the window’s framework behind her.
I was wondering that too but then noticed she doesn’t wear glasses
My guess is Amber. I’d be especially sorry to her, too, if I knew she could eviscerate me with little difficulty. 😛
Ooo, that would make a lot of sense. I think you might be right about that
Nah, Amber is “palette-swapped Dorothy”.
I’m guessing Other Rachel, whom Joe gave a 3.
eh, why not, I’m just impressed they could build it and set it up so quickly, or if the college actually would let them do that. then again, free donuts.
This is the single most glorious strip I have ever witnessed hahaha. Never thought I’d say it but the ukulele really brings the whole thing together.
Especially since it’s a BADLY PLAYED ukulele in the hands of someone who had never touched one three days ago.
He’s had it for three whole days.
Posts on Youtube would suggest that makes him an expert…
#HateUkes
for some reason i just imagined joe being drunk or super tired and rating a feminine looking guy as a girl on his list suddenly feeling confused realizing he rated a guy on his girl life.
You know, I want to say “at least he’s trying” but this is Joe so I’m never sure.
Yeah, I can’t tell if this is a performative ‘apology’ like a lot of his other ones.
ohhhh. *that’s* why I feel so weird about this.
Don’t get me wrong, I WANT very badly for this not to be one, and I’d like to believe that expression of discomfort is him realizing he screwed up on a large llevel, but…this is Joe.
Same here. I figure Joe’s future actions will determine whether this was a major step or not.
Right? I mean, you never know if Joe is putting in actual effort for self-improvement.
Are text corrections ever accepted? I seem to recall old comment threads pointing out mistakes that were still in the strip, so probably not. Still:
In the 2nd panel, Joe says: “There’s no putting that cat back its bag.”
There should be an “in” before “its” in that sentence.
Well, at least he’s made this one small concession I guess.
8-bit’s Garland: “A meal that costs my dignity is still free.”
So, this comic shows up four days after Krispy Kream’s 80-year anniversary sale….
…Is there anything Willis will not predict with his comics?
It’s a very special place.
great, now I really want a donut
Is “Beanbag with Glasses” Other Rachel?
(And, is there a good 🍩 place this first-step offering should be from?)
What if it’s Amber?
Good question. I forget anything said re Amber and the list. Other Rachel took wonderful exception to Joe’s score of her (and I figure, of the list in general.
He scored Dorothy well-ish, and Dorothy and Amber look a lot alike, so I doubt he’d have described her as a ‘beanbag’.
It could be Ruth as well, as she also had a very public breakdown recently. Considering how much of an asshole Ruth was to basically everyone, her entry was likely to have been especially hateful.
I don’t think behavior to other people than Joe figured into it.
With the exception of Dorothy, but only because of behavior to Danny (and I suppose she turned Joe down when he made his pass).
This is more responsibility than most guys in his position would take…
Apology pastries for everyone!
Except Joe. Joe gets humble pie.
Free food is always good, extra good if you’re a college student, I imagine.
A strip with Char. Just what I didn’t know I didn’t need.
I’m actually pretty happy with this as long as he is really owning it, talking/apologizing to the girls who come by and accepting any and all of their anger.
This is the difference, to me, between Joes apology and Ruths apology. Sure Ruth apologised but she also had Billie standing beside her in quite a confrontational pose, almost daring someone to say something (note Billies clenched fist)
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/hair-3/
Having said that Ruth meant her apology and realises what she did wrong, I’m not sure if Joe gets why he has to apologize, I mean I think he knows he did something wrong but I don’t know if he knows exactly what he did wrong
But donuts are always good
Billie did that on her own, not because Ruth asked her to. Ruth went into that meeting with the intention of taking any and all anger directed at her.
If she hadn’t needed to get Billie away from Rachel before a fistfight broke out, she might have stood there for even more of Rachel’s abuse, at the cost of her fragile mental health.
I thought that was the comic Puckish was referring to as well, but it turned out that they’re talking about the moment when Ruth first came back from the hospital.
I obviously did not actually click the link before replying, but I’d say Billie’s aggressively protective stance was actually extremely justified in that strip. Ruth had only just gotten back from the hospital, and Mary – who helped put her there – was standing right there and smirking.
Ruth owed everyone an apology. She gave as much of one as she could manage at the time, and followed it up later (though she still probably sooner than was wise), complete with giving everyone (who chose to attend, at least) the chance to vent their anger at her. Billie was absolutely right to discourage anyone who might’ve decided to tear into Ruth right then and there.
I don’t think Joe talking to girls will help. (He’s not good at it)
Uhhhh
Well, good on you for getting Joe to actually do something Danny, even if Joe still hasn’t seemed to have learned anything.
Make up a bunch of fake lists and put them out. Security issue resolved-ish.
With Joe’s personality, I think baby steps are the best we can hope for. And I think this is a really good one. Between this incident and his new friendship with Joyce, I really hope that we’ll get to see him grow a bit.
Also, donuts make the world a better place. Humanity did right when we created donuts.
Danny made sure to stop at Kinko’s to get the sign made.
My head says Danny, heart says it’d serve Joe right to have to give an order for a sign like this to someone at Kinko’s.
Okay now I wanna see Joe wear this as a sandwich sign for a day.
Does Danny have the cash for a custom sign and the hardware to set it up? I have trouble picturing his parents giving him a lot of cash. I can barely picture them cosigning a college loan.
Good question.
At some point I’m wondering when the Rule of Funny comes into play here. That sign, and the neatly-dressed table skirt (with visible Velcro attachment) is simply way funnier than a piece of cardboard with a hand-scrawled message.
And it ressembles the king of booth authors have to sign books. So joe signs shame donuts? Write about bean bags? Not sure anymore…
I did not expect anything like that last panel at all. That is actually a pretty good start for Joe.
On the one hand, this can’t possibly make it right.
…. on the other hand, as far as I can tell, this is the closest that they can get to making it right. So full marks. (Er, half marks, because it’s make-up work.)
And on the third-hand, I’m pretty sure that “Bean-bag with glasses” is Amber, so DEFINITELY be extra-sorry to the woman who eviscerated Druggo McStabbed. OR ELSE.
(Or, er, maybe not, because she might not like everyone suddenly being intimidated and/or worshipful because of the dark side she was forced to unleash in justified but reluctant self-defense. Or maybe she does? Crap. This is why humans need to come with instruction manuals.)
Okay but what song is Danny playing?
whatever it is, it’s got half notes, quarter notes, and eighth notes. hope that narrows it down for you!
For some reason, in my head it’s the opening credits music for Disney’s Robin Hood.
Nah, it’s Men in Tights.
“C’mon and make a jam with me!”
Medley that and “Do it For Her”, cos of the title (not the lyric).
For ESL readers
eviscerate
verb
past tense: eviscerated
1. To remove the entrails of a person or animal
Synonyms: disembowel, gut, draw, dress
Example: “The goat had been skinned and eviscerated.”
2. To deprive of vital or essential parts
Example: “The censors eviscerated the book.”
3. To remove an organ or contents of an organ. Surgery
Also can be used less precisely, to mean that she hurt him very thoroughly with a sharp weapon, and didn’t get hurt much herself.
(Kind of like ‘decimate’, which literally means to kill one tenth of an army, but it’s normally understood as total destruction, instead.)
True. Joe is at the age where words are often more grandiose and/or flamboyant than their context. Not to say that just slicing him up without spilling organs isn’t extreme and dangerous in its own right. There’s also a chance that he is using a $5 word with an assumed meaning. Either way, it does give me hope that Amber didn’t end up killing him.
Since Amber was not editing his sexist speech or performing an emergency appendectomy, odds are she made an organ or organs that was supposed to be inside him no longer be inside of him maybe with a slash to the abdomen. Survivable with fast emergency care and surgery, but he will be in rough shape. Long list of possible complications. Man… no wonder Dorothy looked so shocked and horrified.
* No. I’m not a serial killer. I just have a lot of medical personnel in my family and was going in the field myself before I became disabled. 😛
As much as I wouldn’t mind him being eviscerated, I’m assuming Joe’s just using it casually to mean he got stabbed pretty good.
Also, and probably covered under one of those definitions, a sea cucumber’s defense mechanism, in which it literally shoots its own respiratory system out of its multipurpose orifice at a predator to scare it away.
That’s probably the most fun definition.
The ocean is weird .
Lol I had to look up “ESL” as an ESL reader 😀 (But not eviscerate, because words of latin origin are way easier to understand than lots of commonplace words)
You know, there are worse excuses.
I’m sure there are BETTER excuses as well, but donuts, ukulele and public embarrassment is a good start.
… It’s a start.
Those better be decent doughnuts, not that Krispy Kreme paste, Joe.
Dunkin or bust! Dunkin’s the best!
Krispy Kreme is the superior donut you fool
Krispy Kreme is to doughnuts what McDonald’s is to cheeseburgers. They’re not superior to anything but “no doughnuts”, and that only barely.
FOOLS, clearly Gallasso’s donuts (and coffee) are superior! …Or they would be, if Galasso made such.
Dammit I spelled his name wrong.
Watch it, Galasso will have it out for you now!
Oh no, I must…lock him in a toy store basement…or something.
One out of two ain’t bad.
— Meat Loaf
They’re also superior to the sad, sad excuse for a donut produced by King Soopers.
I can’t say as I’ve ever had the misfortune to try those.
Krispy Kreme are the nastiest goddamn donuts I have ever had the misfortune of contacting my tastebuds.
They’re so oily I can’t believe how people stand them. At least Dunkin has the decency to have non-oily ones. And chocolate butternut.
Krispy Kreme are edible if you get them hot off the line, and only if you get them hot off the line.
I’m older than many folks here, and I have to pull out this classic:
Dunkin’ used to run the famous “time to make the donuts” ads, and they no longer do because they don’t make them onsite.
Something got lost when they stopped that.
That’s fair. Their old fashioneds are still decent, though. 🙂
They’re in Bloomington, so those donuts better be Square Donuts. Local best. :d
+1 for local knowledge.
Also, dear god, I hope for Amber’s sake that ‘eviscerated’ is not meant literally?
Never occurred to me that eviscerate took its root word from viscera.
~Ah, I’m losing my natural curiosity for etymology.
Provided that there is no coconut people should come around.
You take that back! Coconut glazed fried cakes are the bomb.
My first reaction: What the fuck?
I mean, this was almost an Tiny Toons or Animaniacs-level of “solution to problem” cut right there. And while DoA obviously has gags and funniness, this was unexpected.
Second reaction: Dina. Dina makes everything better.
Third reaction: Joe’s bought at least six dozen donuts, possibly more hidden behind the table. There’s a lot of people he owes an apology to.
Four: Danny’s allowed to play the ukulele. This is actually meaningful, in that Joe’s now relying on New Danny’s newfound strengths for help. Take that, everyone who didn’t think that the ukulele would be good for Danny!
Five: Like everyone says, this is baby steps. And yeah, one cannot fully ignore that Joe’s doing this display so he can be seen in public as remorseful more than truly being remorseful… But at the same time, it’s equally hard to ignore that he is trying.
Six: Dina, again.
well i mean how different is joe’s perception of his public self from his perception of his actual self
Well, Joe has in the past tried doing damage control where it seems more important that his public image is not harmed rather than actually regretting his actions. That’s the sort of thing I was thinking about when I made that comment.
So what were you expecting, a wheel of morality or something?
…
…
…Now I want the last panel in this strip to feature in a wheel of morality!
This….actually works as an apology. Also, Willis, your kids are super adorable beating up that Transformer toy and I’m so happy they’re both doing good healthwise.
Well, donuts are good.
I’m a fan of dramatic public displays, and of free donuts. If Joe changes his behaviour, then this was a good step.
The wording is clearly mostly Danny’s (what with citing poor security as a major part of the transgression), but still, sitting in public to make amends is pretty good! I’ll be generous and assume that sitting in public with Reparation Donuts was Joe’s idea (since Danny is usually pretty shy). Joe’s acknowledging that he screwed up, he looks contrite and is prepared to get yelled at for it, and he’s making a gesture that says he wishes he could make it up to them. He’s not asking for anything in return, which implies that it’s OK if they don’t forgive him.
The strength of this apology depends entirely upon how well Joe can behave in the future. He could make this his turning point, or not. Either way, donuts.
A poor start is still a start
You know, I’m disappointed. When Dina was playing the piano Willis actually used the music from “Jurassic Park” (and the theme from “Barney”) to show what she was playing , and when Carla was creating her Rube Goldberg machine he showed her actually whistling the leit-motif from “1812 Overture”. But for Danny’s uke playing, he just puts up some random notes instead of something recognizable like “Aloha ‘Oe” or “Sweet Leilani” or even “TipToe Through the Tulips”.
how on earth have you missed the sixteen billion strips earlier in this storyline where i provided cords for danny’s ukulele
i’m disappointed i had to manually approve that comment because it had more than one link
I’m still amused by Bwtf# 🙂
Sorry, sir. I noted the chord registrations earlier and even commented on them, but I’m a piano player myself so I’m used to reading — and being able to whistle or play — actual notes and staves.
Sorry, sir. I noted the chord registrations earlier and even commented on them, but I’m a piano player myself so I’m used to reading — and being able to whistle or play — actual notes and staves.
Or some Jake Shimabukuro.
(Note: The joke here is that Jake Shimabukuro is someone who can do things with a ukulele that shouldn’t be physically possible.)
You made me curious enough to look that name up. I owe you one.
Happy to be of service!
“Walky? You were not on the list.”
“Yeah, that’s why I’m upset. Anyway, gimmie a donut!”
And there’s Char after nearly 5 years.
And if we never see her again, it’ll be too soon.
So there’s been some fair criticism of Danny’s persistant friendship with Joe in face of his terribadness, But he seems to be assuming the implication it puts on him- like not even questioning the, idk, guilt by association. And Joe is getting off too easy having Danny’s friendhsip, support, and action, but this is BETTER than the alternative.
Is gud. I leik
Not guilt by association, but guilt by having helped Joe put his list on the Internet.
And the prize for “Most Bizarre Yet Practical Apology” goes to…! 😉
who’s beanbag with glasses? is it billie?
Dorothy, considering yesterday’s comic
Dorothy is ranked a seven. It’s unlikely that he’d give someone he’d describe as a ‘beanbag’ a seven. Also not likely Amber, since she’s physically very like Dorothy.
It’s probably Other Rachel.
Nah, Billie is the ‘Desperate Ex-Cheerleader’, according to a recent strip.
These donuts could be awesome exceot for this jackass badly playing the ukulele and completely ruining my appetite.
And glazed donuts? Only glazed donuts, Joe? That is like inviting everyone for pizza and then only ordering it with cheese.
Your apology rates a 2. You are officially a 2.
Dina appears to be eating a jelly donut. 🙂
Eating or attacking?
A JELLY DONUT??? HOW DID IT GET THERE ??
IS CHOW ALLOWED IN THE DORM, PRIVATE JOE??
not sure where it states there are only glazed donuts
Come on, Willis. We can all read the subtext here.
…Even if glazed is all you had left, at least it’s not rabid weasels.
Glazed is best anyway.
OLD-FASHIONED glazed.
Just as (extra) cheese pizza is the best anyway.
Disagree.
At least the napkins are always free.
Donuts! *Nom*
That’s so weirdly sweet…it makes me smile.
It’s something at least and not nothing. 😀
Also, as a side note? That sign didn’t come cheap.
….
…. pun intended.
Take out the stuff about the list and that last panel would make a great apology card.
On one hand, it’s good that Joe is trying to take reparations.
On the other hand, he still isn’t using her actual name on the ‘I’m sorry’ sign.
That is probably for her benefit, if he was particularly mean to her would she want to be called out by her actual name on the public poster?
Who in this dorm isn’t going to be aware of who she is from that description/the list details?
I should elaborate. Calling her out in particular would be of questionable merit anyway, by name or otherwise. But that critique also applies to what he wrote here. So, on top of singling her out with a pretty derogatory description, he also dodged using her name in a humanizing way at all.
He’s using the name that he used on the list. If she recognized herself on the list then she’ll recognize herself on the sign.
One, that wasn’t even my main point?
And two, Rachel would know who Joe was talking about if he wrote ‘Eleven’ on that sign. Doesn’t mean he SHOULD.
Rule of funny: “potato with glasses” is much funnier than “Rachel” (or, if it wasn’t Other Rachel, a random feminine name).
Also he’s specifically sorry about calling her that.
If he used her name, any morbidly curious dormmates would go look up that nasty rating, to find out what necessitated a special call-out on the sign. It’s better to just give the punchline instead of click-baiting his list.
I donno, but even if it’s just a few people, isn’t that still better?
He might not know her real name. Because he possibly didn’t ask.
Yeah, he describes her as a ‘beanbag’…and feels that even beyond that, his description of her warrants a special apology…seems unlikely he’d engage with her enough to know her name.
Yeah, I see no reason to believe he knows the actual names of more than maybe 40% of the girls on the list.
Given that Rachel is ‘Eleven’ in Joe’s mind, it is quite possible that he never knew her name in the first place!
Genuine question re logistics: Are all the names on the doors still, and did Joe see that? (And would he care to notice Rachel’s name and act like he already knew it from previous interaction or a shared class or such?)
The names were never on the doors, far as I recall, aside from those voluntarily put up as door decorations.
But that was for about every door shown, which I take t mean about every roomie pairing Willis created. I’m sure it’s there in Whiteboard Sing Song Bandit. (I left the predictive text there.)
Somehow I feel that the Whiteboard Sing Song Bandit woulf be far, far worse than the Whitboard Ding Dong Bandit
This is a small step for Joe. I wouldn’t say this is a full apology, because Joe hasn’t accepted entirely why the list was so bad, why he shouldn’t have made one, why he shouldn’t have used it to try to manipulate or punish people with it, why he shouldn’t have treated women as targets.
This is improving the moods of a few of probably the least upset women and likely a few of the more moderately upset as well. The most upset and most hurt aren’t going to feel better at all because he gave away some free donuts and it hasn’t made up for anxiety these women may be feeling now.
Kind of hoping he ends up offering some kind of service which would force him to confront how unsafe he made women feel because I would be bloody terrified.
Okay, Dina, Agatha, and Danny are all adorable in the last panel.
So, a sorta-poll from me: Tell me, fellow readers, what song do you think Danny is playing as mood music at Joe’s Apology Donut Stall?
All Apologies?
The theme song to Power Rangers Time Force.
“So sorry” by the ink spots
Elton John’s Sorry Seems to be The Hardest Word
the calvinball sorry song. 🙂
Worst-Info-Dump-EVAR !!1!!1!
(Wow! Does Dina LOVE doughnuts or WHAT!?)
When I looked at the last panel, the first thing that popped into my head was Homer Simpson: “Mmmm…Donuts!”
I’d like to think after making similar faces in the second to last panel, they both turned to each other and exclaimed “Free Donuts!”
Ehhh… I appreciate the effort, Joe, but this kind of comes across as a “I’m sorry because they’re making me say it” apology. Still, I suppose nobody would say no to free donuts. 😉
Joe is Harriet the Spy.
You mean if Harriet were a kid today, her Lost Notebook would have been put online?
Somewhere in an alternate universe, an IU student is making a list of ephemera and sensations:
Nym: “Gust of Cocoa Puffs”
Rating: 11/10
Notes: “I can’t see anything, but the aroma makes me feel secure and well-fed”
those dohnuts are legaly aviding as apology acceptance? XD i love those guys.
Eviserated? holly shit.
Ha ha, it’s funny because it’s like a booth at a con.
This still strikes me as “I’m not sorry I did it, I’m sorry you found out I did it.”
Which means he doesn’t regret his actions, he only regrets the consequences.
Which means he hasn’t meaningfully changed — he’ll just try harder not to get CAUGHT being a douchbag in the future.
Thank you , I was trying to figuring out what was bothering me with the apologize scheme
Plus it’s apologizing for the wrong things on top of that. When he thinks of what he did wrong it’s just that it was “mean” and that it got out, not really ready yet to actually examine the toxic rat king of misogyny and entitlement that was the actual issue.
True on all of this.
….. but.
World views are slow to change. Most of them are self-reinforcing in many redundant ways. Remove one piece of the world view, and the rest of the structure picks up the slack without much trouble. Remove a few more, and the rest soldier on with difficulty. It’s only when ENOUGH bits and pieces get taken out of the system that the whole thing collapses under its own weight and a general reassessment occurs.
This here was Item One or Item Two being removed. No, Joe isn’t reassessing everything yet. But I wouldn’t expect that. It’s going to take a few more crises for him to take a deeper look at EVERYTHING he’s doing wrong, rather than one or two items in isolation. But this partial apology and partial acknowledgement for one specific detail rather than for the whole enchilada is a sign that he’s taken the first few steps in the right direction.
toxic rat king?
lol autocorrect 🙂
Totally making the Toxic Rat King of Misogyny a villain in one of my stories.
Google ‘rat king’. I suspect it’s not what you think.
Leaving aside the morality of Joe’s list, how much security is “enough”? It seems reasonable to me that if what you are protecting could be harmful if exposed then the answer is “more than zero”, but how do you determine how much more? Or put another way, how do you determine that your level of security is socially irresponsible given whatever it is that you are protecting?
It is good to see that Joe understands that he screwed up, he probably should do more than give out free apology doughnuts, but it is a start
What are we to make of the fact that Char is standing directly behind Dina? The last time they met (which was also the first time they met) Char referred to her using a mean and socially unacceptable epithet.
Baby steps towards redemption, Joe. Baby steps.
Comic Reactions:
This is sweet. Like, they just blew up at each other, Danny with far more anger than he’s shown anyone, Joe going low against deep insecurities. It would be easy for this to be the permanent end to their friendship and in most situations it would be.
But Danny doesn’t like letting go of things until the bitter end and he wants everyone to get along.
Panel 1: And while he’s bringing it back down, he also is a good egg and wants to do right by the people harmed, even if he doesn’t know what it looks like, he wants to do right. And he wants Joe to care about doing right.
Panel 2: And predictably Joe’s first response is to displace and dodge responsibility. No shutting down the list or promising not to do it again or showing real remorse for the clear and present danger there was, just excuses and excuses. It’s already out, besides there’s security, besides there was a sexual predator but he got ultra mega stabbed, besides besides besides.
It’s his default and it’s something that will have to change before too long because it’s unsustainable and harming people and because one can’t stonewall owning the consequences of one’s actions forever.
*And oof, it sounds like Ryan was the one dragged off, but describing him as “eviscerated”, I worry deeply about Amber and how fucked her mental health is and whether or not she’s in jail.
Panel 3: And I love Danny’s line here because it’s the perfect counter to that abdication of responsibility. What could we do? Not nothing. Not standing on the sidelines tsking under one’s teeth going too bad. But something.
Now, in time, he’ll learn to follow the leads of the marginalized and support them when he feels that he needs to do “something”. But all that goodness stems from that initial moment. Seeing injustice, noticing the harm done by privilege, and deciding to do something about it rather than just turn away and treat it as someone else’s shit.
And it’s why he’ll be a good egg eventually. And maybe he can drag Joe along with him in time.
Panel 4: And this moment, I love this moment, because for the first time Joe isn’t running, isn’t making excuses. And it would be so easy to. But for the first or second time he weighs his friendship with Danny against this fucked up toxic system he has enmeshed himself in and he decides to do right by Danny instead.
And it’ll be moments like this that’ll lead him out of the toxic pit he’s fallen into if he wants to escape.
Panel 5: And this… it’s not great. Like, yay donuts, but it’s not a deleting of the list or a promise for lasting change or treatment of women as people. And it doesn’t even acknowledge the worst aspects of the list or what was harmful, just calling it “mean” as if the problem with it was that he was making fun of people rather than turning people into objects and putting them at risk. Not to mention it apologizes for “bad security” instead of being the type of ignoramus to make a list in the first place and make it publicly accessible at all.
It’s missing the point entirely. But for Joe, it’s a step. It’s an acknowledgment, however small, that he did something wrong that needs to be made right. He’s got a long climb ahead of him and will have to learn to accept more hard introspection of the kind he’s not going to be fully comfortable with, but it’s a step in the right direction rather than continuing to dig that hole.
And the ‘I’m especially sorry to “Beanbag with Glasses”‘ line at the bottom is really heartbreaking, because that’s probably Amber.
I really don’t know why folks keep guessing Amber on this. I think beanbag is a physical description. If it isn’t Other Rachel (whom he rated a 3), I think it’s probably someone fat.
Because she may be the figure of the most fear, since she was (probably) arrested for attacking Ryan outside the dorm. She also tends to wear shapeless, baggy clothing, the kind that would make her look bigger than she is.
Amber is in the hospital.
I don’t know why this didn’t occur to me before, but it should’ve been the first problem with this theory. Amber literally cannot see this sign, and both Danny and Joe are well-aware of that fact. It cannot be for her.
We don’t know that. We don’t know where Amber is.
But it’s still not Amber. Likely Other Rachel, as you said.
Okay, but we know that DANNY knows she’s not at school, so again.
Her not being able to see it wouldn’t stop it from being about her. If it is her, being apologetic in a way that can be read by those who have decoded the description on the list is a good thing.
(he’s still not getting it, per Cerb, but it’s as far as these two are likely to get for a while without some quality sit-down time with Leslie, and (a) that’s not her job [of course which: it’s not ANYONE’s job, LEARN you goobers], and (b) she’s got enough on her plate just now as it is.)
Oh come on XD
Look, Danny knows Amber very personally. If Joe wanted to apologize to Amber, this would be the worst possible way to do it: on a sign she’s not going to see, by a pseudonym?
Beanbag is not a descriptor that makes any sense when applied to Amber, so people have been arguing it’s an apology because of what Amber went through, but it really seems like folks are forgetting that Joe has a way to apologize to Amber much more directly.
This sign would also be an extra crummy apology if it were directed at Dorothy. The only way it doesn’t _completely_ suck is if it’s an apology to someone Joe has no existing connection to.
I’m not sure about that…
Joe sort of commented on Amber before (or her alter-ego Amazigirl, where he rated her as a ‘9’. Now, this may be due to him thinking she might have ‘issues’ that translate to ‘insane sex’, but I doubt she would have been rated that high if she thought she was a “beanbag”.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/skim-2/
He may be referring to “Other Rachael”, whom also wears glasses, and received a much lower score (a 3).
What I really want to know is how Joe deals with the women who approaches the table. Does he go with Becky’s “Yeah, I’m a butt. Sorry. have a doughnut”? That would be good.
Does he go with the answer he gave Joyce and Rachel, Mandy and other Rachel (defensive, sarcastic, doubling down on the bullshit). That would be not good.
It looks like he might be mostly going with terrified silence which of all the potential options, is definitely not the worst he could have done.
Definitely a step up.
I actually liked the use of the word “mean”.
And it doesn’t even acknowledge the worst aspects of the list or what was harmful, just calling it “mean” as if the problem with it was that he was making fun of people rather than turning people into objects and putting them at risk. Not to mention it apologizes for “bad security” instead of being the type of ignoramus to make a list in the first place and make it publicly accessible at all.
I think apologizing for “making a mean list, and putting it behind bad security” is in fact intended as an apology “for being the type of ignoramus to make the list in the first place and making it publicly accessible”.
Like, it’s not an eloquent apology, but I think those words in that order… are an apology for exactly the things they should be.
I think Meta, below, made a good point. That for people like Joe, “objectifying” and “degrading” aren’t… meaningful concepts, at least not yet. “Mean” may be the softest possible word for the list, but it’s also a real word for Joe, a word that acknowledges the list was morally wrong.
People can argue for hours and hours about whether or not something “qualifies” as objectification; and every time there’s been a strip about this list, we’ve had lengthy arguments about whether or not it’s really “that bad”, whether or not it’s really “misogyny”, whether “all genders do it”, on and on and on.
Joe (or more likely Danny, but Joe is sitting at the table and presumably accepted the sign’s wording) is cutting through all of that by just plain owning up to the fact that the list was mean, that it hurt people. Instead of trying to have a semantic argument about the list “actually empowering women by giving them more opportunities to get laid” (someone somewhere, somehow, would make this argument), the sign just admits that the list was a bad idea, and should not have existed.
No one needs to accept Joe’s apology. Particularly not the readers. But I think that a sign that more clearly enunciated the exact problems with the list would be more performative than sincere, from someone like Joe.
One might even hope that having the cartoonist unambiguously call the list Bad would also end comment section debates about that, but my hopes are very slim there. 😉
I am in agreement here .Given the space limitations, there are only so many words to be fit on a sign in a comic, and what’s put there what gets the points across.
Good public start, and I expect someone in IU will post it on their Facebooks or etc, and Joe just has to accept that.
Tangentially, unless it’s going to be annotated like a Shakespeare play, we can’t expect Willis to note every thought going thru a character’s head, even in the way one day in DofA comic-time can take 60 or 110 strips. And how encounters are broken into daily bits for humor or.drama, sometimes the only thing to do is wait for several days of conversation as a whole.
He can’t but I wouldn’t mind knowing what thoughts going through Dinas head at the moment, shes really going to town on that donut
She’s attacking it like one of the cooler dinosaurs she knows the name of (but which I forget).
I really enjoy the comics convention where someone’s teeth turn into all fangs when they’re ferociously eating, or just ferocious.
It looks like the donut is her mortal enemy or something
Like that donut came into the atmosphere, hit Earth, and created a crater sending up tons of skill and ash and dust, altering the climate and leading to theeventual extinction of her entire taxonomic genus?
Mind you, some donuts are awfully heavy.
I feel like the fact that he used the word ‘mean’ sort of implies that this apology was written by him and not Danny, and that it might even be a little sincere. If he wanted to do a fake apology, he probably would have gone for ‘objectifying’ or ‘degrading’ or some other word that he knows is bad from Leslie’s class, but that he doesn’t actually believe is bad.
It’s something. Also hilarious.
Joe: Hehe, little do they know one of them will be taken down by the POISONED doughnut. Wait, there is a poisoned doughnut, right?
Danny: No, Joe, I talked to Sarah in Pre-Law. She said it would be murder.
Joe: DAMMIT.
I don’t know if anyone is reading this. But I just spent the last three days reading this from page 1. I do not know if I should be proud or ashamed of reading 7 years of comics in 3 days but all I know is that I need another comic to binge read now, waiting sucks
Binge reading is awesome. Just can’t get enough!
Check out EndTown. Much post-apocalyptic goodness.
Heh. I binged through the entire works of Dave Willis, Jeph Jacques, Pete Abrams, Fred Gallagher, David Morgan-Mar and a few others across a couple months back in (I think) 2011. It’s a reasonably normal thing to do with this type of long runner comic.
Such good stuff. I wonder why Hollywood bothers rebooting old stuff, when they could show some serious $$ love for web comic artists/writers who after all, have practically created scene-by-scene storyboards and dialog.
I hope artists profit from print works, because I buy those when I can. Now I’m trying to figure out how to use Patreon without it being hooked into Facebook.
On a complete tangent, here’s my alternate poll to Dave Willis’s current poll, because one option was clearly being omitted. https://strawpoll.com/xbcga9rs
I’m a big believer in having to atone for your sins so this is a good start for Joe to allow the women hes hurt the opportunity to let him know exactly what he did and the more uncomfortable it makes Joe the better he’ll learn his lesson and, hopefully, some empathy
Its a good first step and I’m really looking forward to when Joe steps back into the gender studies classroom, like will Joe actively listen, will he get more, deserved flak from the class, how will Leslie react especially given her latest interactions
Let the drama continue
I wouldn’t have thought Dina would be a fan of donuts. Dinuts? Deenuts?
…I see what I did there. Not gonna say it, though.
Got ’em.
Off-topic-ish but, the past week or so, when trying to view the comic I occasionally encounter a problematic ad. It’s the square one in the sidebar to the right of the newspost. The ad in question is this weird “your computer has the Zeus virus!” or something warning made to look like a windows warning popup, and it also plays a sound speaking the same warning.
I figured I’d post it here as I wasn’t sure how to report the ad, as every time that one pops up it freezes my browser & I have to just do a hard restart.
You know he means business when he gets a 10oz banner in a mosquito 800 banner stand
Where are all the pot smokers on campus? Raida’s crew? It doesn’t matter the cause, free munchies is free munchies.
I’m really enjoying today’s comic. I especially love Dina chowing down on her donut in that last panel.
I like how Danny is providing background music.
Is Dina eating a free doughnut, playing a wind instrument to accompany Danny’s playing, or both?
If students there are similar to students in Mexico this strategy may actually be a more effective one (A nickname here for students is “estudiambres” is a contraction of hungry and students… so you can imagine the effect free donuts can have)
Is it a challenge to accept how quickly that escalated?