My first thought was that a “sod atheist” is either a British religious person who really doesn’t like atheists, or possibly a British male who is an atheist because he was taught that the Bible forbids certain activities.
As someone from outside the US, I had no idea that the Midwest was that far north. I’d always kind of assumed it was in the middle of the US. In retrospect, I guess it’s in the middle of the continent, but still.
I will contradict trlkly and offer my interpretation: while they are clearly alluding to the Mediterranean region we call the Middle East, I believe they are saying the region we call the South is actually in the middle of the east coast of North America, so it is in the “middle east” of the continent.
During the expansion of the country after independence, what we call the Midwest was known as the Northwest Territory. Thus Northwestern University in Chicago. University of Michigan’s fight song claims to be champions of the west. This was common until 1880, since the actual west was discounted. Looking for a way to refer to the former Northwest, we settled on Midwest, though most of it is east of the Mississippi. But it is west of the Appalachians, which is a cultural divide.
But Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin are part of a linguistic border, what with the mix of immigrant languages. There are some truly weird dialects in Wisconsin, since people use German sentence structure with English words. “Through the cow over the fence some hay.” and such. Don’t get started on Yooperisms, which is like starting on TV Tropes. You can see what is weird where you live See http://aschmann.net/AmEng/
The line between soda and pop seems to run through my home town. My parents were on opposite side of that divide.
Pretty sure the statute of limitations is up, so I can share this one. A friend of mine (who was then working at the local McDonalds) stole a box of scratch-off promotional tickets. I was helping him scratch them off, and whenever one came up “Free Coke”, I’d yell “More Coke!” and make loud snorting noises. What can I say, my sense of humor can be a tad juvenile.
If anyone’s interested, “pop” is known in the UK, but it’s kind of old-fashioned, and (up here) considered a bit English. “Soft drink” or “fizzy drink” is UK-wide. In Scotland we also call it “juice”, for some reason. (Insert joke about the Scottish diet meaning we consider Irn Bru one of our five a day here).
..And immediately after posting that I started wondering if “five a day” was a thing outside the UK. “Eat more fruit and veg” campaigns, obviously, but the actual phrase?
Different countries have different campaigns, afaik. Like Japan goes for some huge amount a day (I’ve forgotten exactly, but I think it’s in the teens).
And Irn Bru does count to your five a day, right? >_>
Caramel, small crustaceans, creek, carbonated beverage. How do they pronounce it elsewhere? There’s even a site elsewhere where you can test yourself and contribute to the research.
Narrator: Danny sits at his computer pondering over the code that Joyce had given him, he had checked it against everything from the alphabet to the Declaration of Independence, but there was no way he could check everything. His phone rang.
Danny: Oh hey Joyce.
Joyce: Any headway with the code?
Danny: Sorry.
Joyce: Thanks anyway, listen see if you can find any information on the country Thingley.
Danny: What?
Joyce: It’s a small micro nation, they like to keep hidden.
Danny: I’ll look into it.
Narrator: Danny pulled up Google and typed in “Thingley” nothing useful came up.
Danny: This place really is hidden isn’t it?
Narrator: Meanwhile
Joyce: So…(turns to Reginald) you want to help?
Reginald: Of course! Of course I will need a living quarters. The local hotel will do.
Joyce: You can’t just take over a hotel.
Reginald: I am well versed in your countries democracy. Luckily I have come prepared.
Narrator: A limbo pulls up and a large burley man steps out, he wears a black suit and green tie.
Reginald: This is my assistant/bodyguard, Xaviar. Xaviar, go to the nearest hotel and buy it.
Xaviar: “Nods”
Narrator: Xaviar drives off.
Reginald: Now then, do you know any good eating locations around here?
Joyce: You mean a restaurant?
Reginald: Forgive me, my English is still a bit shaky.
When I lived in New Hampshire I forced myself to acquire said taste. It’s like root beer filtered through a bag of well circulated loose change. And now I like it.
Not sure what you are asking, but…
No, I do not live in Atlanta.
No, I do not worship the ancient huntress.
No, I do not think that is what the delicious lemon flavoured Italian soft drinks are called.
The thing with calling it coke is that, unlike any of the other descriptors, it actually adds a layer of ambiguity. Since, you know, Coke and Pepsi are “totally different” and “how dare you get them mixed up” and “I hate Coke but love Pepsi” and all that.
But seriously, Sprite and Sierra Mist are different as night and day and I will die on this hill.
I finally found the Aspirin amid the Highlighters and Post-it Notes. You can open it with an Exacto-knife, but I didn’t have one of those so I threw it like a Frisbee into the wall; it Ping-pong’d off and hit me in the head! Maybe I’ll just give up and try to relax in my Jacuzzi.
I wonder if Pudding Head is going to reveal, “Of course, neither of you are in contention for the job so the fact you’ve both shown up asking about it and referencing elections makes me wonder if you’ve been doing drugs. I’ve also got a short list of candidates of people who applied for the job who are actually of age to do it.”
Well, since no one has actually said anything about elections to Chloe (or at all really?), I’m not sure why she’d say that.
According to Dorothy, who apparently did first talk to Chloe about it, she doesn’t actually have a short list of qualified candidates. If she did, you’d think she’d have told Dorothy when she first asked rather than agreeing to consider her.
They put Ruth in charge of a floor despite the fact she’s quite possibly the least qualified person possible to do the job. Forgetting all the various health issues and addictions, the fact she violently threatens her charges means Pudding Head is an AWFUL judge of character.
Chloe told Dorothy she would field her application if it was good.
I think that list has either been well and truly burned through or it was non-existent because the applicants who didn’t get in were total bottom of the barrel shit.
Almost every potential employer would say that to almost every applicant. It doesn’t actually promise anything.
I kinda want to see this whole RA thing end with someone completely unheard of getting the job and puddin’ head saying “what, you think just because you’ve been pushing for it the world revolves around you?”
Especially if she says it to Roz. Roz doesn’t hear that nearly enough.
No, it doesn’t promise them the job, but it is a thing they can apply and be considered for, even if, as Chloe told Dorothy, it is still a longshot that anything other than ‘Hm, do I want a freshman? nah.” is the level of consideration being offered.
Kind of just goes to show how bad the other RAs are that Ruth was considered the best one and how slim the pickings must have been since Ruth’s kindness varied on a day to day basis and her primary other good trait is that she isn’t a bigot. We’ve seen her do an okay job with a few select things so Ruth wasn’t 100% incompetent, but she was kind of just competent enough that people didn’t report her at best.
I think the actual theory is that Ruth hid how bad she was by running a tight ship and never letting any problems reach her superiors – by fear if necessary. While the other RAs may well actually have been better, but they didn’t hide the problems they did have, so they seemed less under control.
Also, as an aside since there’s some audience overlap, I started following Questionable Content again and am extremely tempted to change my gravatar to Smirky AI because I also find them goddamn delightful.
“Gary” is the AI that mysteriously announced to the world that they would take care of everything now. (Much) later the robot in the suit (Spookybot, as Jeph called them) suddenly appeared and took care of everything. You cannot tell me those two people are not the same.
Man, if she was her existance would be even more miserable; her human body constantly trying to die from alcohol poisoning from misuse of her ability to turn water into wine but unable to because it’s just a fleshy host for her immortal self.
Who said the second coming had to be male? Either that or Dan Brown was going down the right trail and Billie is the many greats granddaughter of God via Mary Magdalene and a long French line that became Norman and then English (cause I’m going to assume the last name Billingsworth is an English last name).
Now is he nouveau rich, or old money gentry. Because that could determine wether Billie is the female reincarnation of Jesus (remember, the guy did like to drink apparently strong wine) or if she’s his descendant and thus DoA’s alcoholic Aragorn (Aragorn was descended from the line of Bergen and Luthien, Luthien being the daughter of an elf and a Maiar aka a lesser angel/goddess spiritual being, born directly from the thoughts of Eru aka God, this meaning Aragorn had divine blood running through his veins in addition too some elven blood and the three different human ethnic groups pre-Numenor).
Sorry, I really needed to explain that second analogy for those not versed in the lore of Arda (Middle-Earth).
I’ve always called it pop, but the thing that weirds me out is that apparently some people call all kinds of soft drinks coke. Coke is a brand name. At least calling it soda makes sense.
Is Xerox supposed to be a copy/copier? I just say those.
I say Kleenex because I only buy Kleenex brand. Same goes for Google and searches.
I personally use bandage over bandaid.
In the area I live in (which seems to be an area that calls it coke), Coke-brand soda is infinitely more popular and in greater supply than other brands of soda, which might have an influence on it. It’s like with kleenexes; yeah, Kleenex is the name of a brand, not the product, but it’s so ubiquitous you can’t help but associate the two.
Down here in my end of OZ, it’s soft drink. And tissues (kleenex is just a brand of tissue). Bandaid used as a generic term however. Soda only applies to unflavoured soda water (used as a mixer), and pop just means a form of music (except in some older British shows).
Just don’t ask about potato cakes vs potato scallops (neither of which has anything to do with scalloped potatoes), the last time that was raised it caused a surprisingly strident twitter war that took days to run out of steam and settled nothing (I still have the scars, the horror, the horror). 🙂
Wait, depending on region, “coke” could mean “carbonated water”?
That’s scary. I mean, I get if people call any brand of cola “coke”, but anything that’s unflavoured, too?
No, things with flavors as well. A Sprite is also a coke, as is a grape soda or a root beer.
My problem with comparing this to Kleenex is that coke isn’t just a brand name, it’s a specific flavor. That’s not true of Kleenex. If I ask you for a Kleenex, you’re not going to say, “sure, which kind of Kleenex?”
Probably won’t do her any good. Having “ground support” and treating it like an election does nothing for a job that’s based on interviews. Plus, she’s already put the college in hot water for streaming herself having sex, which would be a big strike against her. Add to the fact that they are probably looking for responsible people and not people they hope the authority would make responsible, Roz would not be a first pick.
Of course, I could just be biased against Roz. I find her grating and inconsiderate. Plus, I’m not convinced she didn’t just take up left-wing politics to spite her once popular right-wing sister.
Though I wouldn’t be surprised if some level of support from the floor would help – especially if phrased like Billie’s doing here rather than some pretense at a popularity contest.
I do find it hard to believe they’d really consider Roz – whether it should be or not, the video would be a huge strike against her.
Nobody likes “Enterprise”. That show was wet garbage. If I wanted to watch a bunch of assholes in their underwear bumble around in space I will write my own porn parody thank you.
I love Enterprise.
It has better writing , and better plots, and better acting the Next Generation,
and doesmt solve ever problem with Technobabble in the last 5 mins.
Unfortunately, God was only a fan during the first two seasons. As soon as it started actually getting really good, he lost interest and made them cancel it.
This strip gave me a very strange sense of Deja Vu. It obviously isn’t content I’ve seen before. It would have to be something about the timing and staging – coming in to talk, the one interjection by Roz, the jump cut to Joyce being very Joyce.
Is there some other comic this parallels? Or am I just getting the feeling from nothing?
But Episode VII and Rogue One were done right and were good movies, and that’s just Disney milking/rebuilding (Lucas did a lot of damage) the franchise. If Lucas had been less involved, or if there had been people to tell him “no” like there was for the original trilogy, (and I know these next words that I type may be Star Wars blasphemy) the prequels could have been great. It was an unfettered George Lucas who made them bad!!!
Panel 1: It is still very disconcerting when I see Billie referred to as Jennifer. It’s like, oh yeah, that’s her legal name, isn’t it? I swear that’s practically becoming or has become a dead name for her.
Panel 2: Roz lounging on Chloe’s desk like the cover to a lesbian pulp novel is a striking visual. I know she’s canon no attraction to women, but I’m definitely questioning more and more whether she’s some form of non-binary.
And thank you Billie for pointing that out. It is pretty baffling that they’re considering freshmen for the position, especially as it’s not entirely clear whether they are or if Dorothy and Roz are just go-getter enough personalities to press their case frequently and strongly and Chloe is trying to keep her cards close to her chest.
Panel 3, Aspect 1: I feel like this makes a nice pair with Panel 2, especially the fact that well, the reason that the RA job is a big one not given to Freshmen is because it’s a mentorship role to folks in a chaotic time in their lives and well, that’s always going to be hard. Like, just in this hall, we have three people going through various forms of intense emotional crises (Amber, Joyce, Billie), we have three anti-authoritarian types with a penchant for winding up authority (Sal, Carla, Roz), and we have one dangerous bully who has already tried to blackmail a student into suicide (Mary).
That’s a lot to take on. It’s not atypical for mentoring students this age, but it’s still a lot.
Panel 3, Aspect 2: I’m fascinated by the casual way Roz owns this. Like, she’s being called out about her sex tape and freely admitting that she’d probably be trouble for an RA, so she’d probably be trouble to manage for Chloe if she got the permission.
Which would basically torpedo her campaign and it’s probably not lost on anyone that what Roz wants most is not to be sharing a room with Mary anymore, so I wonder if a possible reason that Roz is in her is to try and make a deal that if it’s Dorothy, she can bunk in with Sierra and move out of her hell room.
Also, someone mentioned in the Patreon preview that they thought that Roz might be fully supportive of Dorothy winning and I think this scene gives credence to that.
It’s mostly the outfits and the passionate often angry stance on queer issues.
The outfits because I swear half the outfits she’s been wearing of late have practically been nonbinary uniforms in that I’ve seen so many nonbinary folks and butch lesbians wearing them. And this outfit especially, with the vest and tie is something half of my nonbinary kids have worn at one point or another.
And the angry stance on queer issues, because… well, powerful angry allies do exist and are wonderful, but the way she gets heavily invested reminds me a lot of myself before I figured out I was various identities and the angry way I would ally a bit “too” forcefully and take it a bit too personal (because it was personal, not that I knew that yet).
And from observation, that tends to be a common thing, where a good number of the fierce ally types end up being queer eggs close to hatching. Again, could just be some standard investment and a tendency for the dapper but I dunno. My sensors are tripping a lot nonetheless.
Makes sense! I can totally see your point, but at the same time I’ve found myself getting more invested in trans/nb representation and issues as more and more of my friends have come out, and I’m pretty solidly cis–just that it matters to people I love, so it matters to me.
(Apologies if that sounds like ally-bragging, I don’t mean to come off that way! Just offering another view…please let me know if I’m out of line.)
Honestly, I’ve started wondering lately if Roz might be gender-fluid. I’m not a big expert on gender identity, but one of my friends is bisexual gender-fluid with a preference for women, and Roz reminds me a lot of her aside from the “bisexual with a preference for women” part.
That’d be neat, since there is a SERIOUS deficit of real gender-fluid representation in media — even moreso than other non-binary gender identities. Off the top of my head, I can think of Irma and Tedd, from the webcomics The Princess and El Goonish Shive respectively. And I guess you could stretch it and classify Ranma from Ranma 1/2.
No way is Ranma gender-fluid. He’s always mentally male whatever his physical form.
But with all the gender bending that goes on in manga and anime, you’d think there would be characters comfortable in either role. Just can’t think of any at the moment.
Iiiiii think an argument could actually be made for very specifically the manga version. It was something I noticed kind of abruptly around the eleventh volume of the manga, that Ranma’s mannerisms were bleeding.
There were things that Ranma did initially _only_ in “girl” mode, which at some point he started doing even when not. It’s been years but I still have one of the panels in my head where he adopts that hands-fisted-below-chin-sparkly-eyes-little-flowers-appear-in-the-air-around-his-head pose. It was just an unguarded happy response to something one of the other characters had said, and it was something he’d done in “girl” mode earlier in the chapter, and it was followed by a kind of happy-bounce-away, which also struck me as something he’d regarded as “girl”-only.
Takahashi Rumiko wasn’t the most progressive writer, and she was writing a comedy manga in Japan in the 90s, and other disclaimers, but there’s a lot of potential for queer readings of the characters in this manga. You just have to read it while also kind of wincing and being ready for things not being done very well.
But if you strip the character of Ranma out of that context and you examine him critically, what you’ve got is a character who was explicitly raised by only his extremely sexist father for ~11 years, who sometimes went to all-boys schools and had, prior to coming to live with the Tendou family, really never had prolonged exposure to any women before. Deliberately so, because his (again, extremely sexist) father believed that letting his son be exposed to feminine influence at any point would somehow destroy him as a martial artist.
And, whether Takahashi intended it or not, the text supports Ranma as initially being so strongly against his “curse” because he’d absorbed his father’s sexism, and as having vehemently suppressed any even slightly feminine traits in himself, but gradually coming to see femininity as not so terrible, as something that he’s able to eventually embrace and enjoy. (Complicated by the late-story arc where Ranma’s mom turns up and his dad reveals that he made a ludicrous promise to turn Ranma into a pillar of masculinity on penalty of literal death.)
This comment is probably more thought than Takahashi put into Ranma’s gender identity at literally any point, but like I said I think an argument could actually be made here.
Honestly, Roz’s quest for actual independence drives a lot of her actions. Her glee at her sister’s self-destruction, her attempt to push for a freshman RA, her sexuality activism. She’s a woman who’s been denied a lot of agency growing up and really does see college as her chance to really explore who she really is and live free and is willing to fight for that.
Problem being, I really don’t think she cares that much about what she has to do, or who she has to hurt, to get what she wants.
And that, still IMO, is where she’s a lot like her sister.
(Okay, ‘hurt’ may be a little strong. But if she had to push someone else out of the way, or step over them, to gain her own freedom? Yeah, she would.)
Yeah, but that’s where shifting context is interesting to me. Cause I can definitely feel desperation to survive and become free even if that means being callous to the feelings of another or having to accept a relationship will never be repaired. I’ve been there. And I’ve seen the people who’ve watched too many friends die celebrate and cheer the death of monsters who smirked as that happened and worked their ass off to ensure that.
And in the new era of Trump, I’ve had to seriously consider, what would I do to keep those I care about safe. What are my limits if it got to that point? It’s a daunting thing to think about.
And Roz’s actions (which I’d argue never were all that bad, mostly just callous) change in that calculus too. If you were that trapped by a bigot’s eternal campaign, how hard would you cheer to be free? If you were stuck in a room with someone who thinks everyone like you should burn in hell forever (which is something I feel deeply considering my first roommate actually tried to perform an exorcism on me while I was sleeping (I slept in the study box a lot more after that night)) and who liked to put their bigotry into horrible action, how hard would you fight for any chance to be free?
I dunno, her actions get even more understandable in those contexts.
Nah, I don’t buy she’s just trying to get away from Mary. That may be one thing she’s considering, but it’s not the only thing. I mean, if that was her goal, there are other ways to do that.
I didn’t stay with my first roommate in college. Or my second one.
Something feels ineffably slimy here about Roz being here making herself at home in Chloe’s office. It’s not like Roz doesn’t have every right to be there and even to make her case for herself as RA, as seems the most likely purpose of her visit… But somehow it feels slimy. Maybe it’s the body language, half-sitting on Chloe’s desk, especially putting herself right next to Chloe, even with her from the perspective of the doorway…
Might not be intentional, but it’s an awkward position for actually talking to Chloe – back mostly towards her, would have to twist her head around to look at her.
It’s a good position for presenting an apparently united front to anyone coming through the door though.
Panel 3, Aspect 3: I’m fascinated by how the real world adds extra context to the actions within the panels. Dorothy being called Hillary Clinton Jr in the context of this last election cycle. Carla being targeted by Mary when all the bathroom bills were exploding everywhere and schools were increasing their harassment of trans students and where churches were targeting trans folks as the new group to hate.
And so, I feel the new context of a Trump world adds a new perspective to Roz. Like, her main flaws are that she goes all-in very quickly, not willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt before firing with both barrels and willing to cheer and whoop for the underhanded tactic if it removes someone dangerous from power.
Which in an Obama world might have seemed excessive, suddenly becomes very apropos in a world where the stakes really are terrifying and bigots really do need to be woken up to the horror reality of their actions and that our lives aren’t actually a fucking game of who is more “pure”. Where every Republican yanked from office gets us closer to having a chance to undo a terrible mistake before any more damage is done to families and the lives of those on the margins.
And that’s fascinating to me.
Panel 4: And I love Billie doing this here. She doesn’t want Ruth replaced. She thinks this all is stupid. She doesn’t particularly like Dorothy and thinks she is a nerd. But she recognizes that the quiet skill Dorothy showed to meet her where she was and listen to her would be the traits of a great RA and wants the person making the decision to know that.
And that’s the sweetest damn thing.
Panel 5: Ah, guarded interviewer language. Leaves a lot in the dark as to what is happening behind the surface besides blind panic and a dartboard with several names on it in case things get desperate.
Panel 6: Now I’m leaning towards Dorothy getting it, just because I want to see the interaction as Joyce becomes convinced her appeal to God got the position for Dorothy.
Also, proof that Joyce worships Caucasian Jesus rather than Historical Jesus. God being a proud midwesterner.
Before moving to California one of the people I was friends with before long distance and my current clique quietly ended with (and I really should contact again) was a Mirazhi Jew whose parents had migrated from Iraq in the 1980s. I swear his dad looked just like historical Jesus, and he said pop all the time. Just something I was reminded of. So historical Jesus could very well say “pop”. It would also probably be easier for a guy speaking Aramaic, Hebrew, and some form of Vulgar Latin or Koine Greek to say “pop” instead of “soda” if he decided to learn English. Dammit now I need to know which one Yeshua Ben Yoseph would say.
Given Shortpacked was in San Francisco, the regional map says “proooooobably soda”. But then he came out of the resurrection tube capable of speaking English, so he probably learned from a different source than just “everyone else in the store says it this way”. Also, Colorado appears to be a “pop” state and that could affect things.
I’d wonder which one Galasso uses, but the answer to that probably involves at least two “Fools!” and is waaaaay more technical than any non-Galasso entity would ever say in common parlance.
“And so, I feel the new context of a Trump world adds a new perspective to Roz. Like, her main flaws are that she goes all-in very quickly, not willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt before firing with both barrels and willing to cheer and whoop for the underhanded tactic if it removes someone dangerous from power.”
When I was reading these 2 sentences, I was thinking “ah, this is about Trump’s actions.”And then I read on and it turns out it’s about the *response* to Trump’s actions. Every movement needs its guns blazing fighters to get the intellectuals heads out of their own asses and into actually getting something worthwhile done, but it’s worth keeping in mind.
Also, what history research shows Jesus called it soda?!
Your third paragraph got me to thinking about something that’s been simmering in the back of my mind for a while. What do you think about Evan McMullin? Is he really an outstanding Republican resistor, or is he a false hope like John Kasich?
I think it’s great that he exists and is resisting in his own way and giving Republicans a means to separate themselves from outright nazism and I encourage that. But at the same time I don’t fully trust him, because he’s still conservative and holds bigoted views towards groups I belong to and has been involved in active bigotry against them (cough cough Prop 8).
But yeah, in general, very happy that he’s been consistently fighting against this monstrosity at least and that he isn’t doing the annoying thing of demanding the folks he’s hurt in the past shut up forever because he’s “on the right side now” and I hope to see some more conservatives of conscience who aren’t quite willing to go full nazi as they are going to be crucial in tearing this shit down before the only way out is complete violent revolution.
This actually got me thinking “Hey, what’s Rob Portman been doing lately? He changed his mind on gay-marriage and seems to be becoming more liberal on the issues of gender discrimination and such. Oh hey, he opposes the Muslim ban and is supporting the judges who are attempting to nix it, cool.” Honestly, I kinda hope he follows a Lincoln Chaffee-esque route.
I’ve been following McMullin on Twitter, and I think he might be too distracted opposing Trump’s blatant power grabs and highlighting the various ways he’s overstepping constitutional lines in his quest for fascist domination over all branches of government to focus on any bigoted policies he himself may support. He’s pretty entrenched against Trump, so worst case scenario he doesn’t regress until after we’ve solved that problem, and best case scenario he becomes integrated with other forms of activism through his opposition to Trump. Fingers crossed and all that.
Ok, but for serious the last panel is a very sweet moment. Joyce is holding on to her faith without holding on to the toxic baggage she thought she needed to have that faith. She’s praying in the presence of her friend, for her friend, but only because she’s praying for something good to happen for her. It is in no way passive aggressive and Dorothy is comfortable enough with it for banter- which I think is important! I think Joyce has learned enough empathy that she would care if her praying made Dorothy uncomfortable and apologize. As an atheist in Dorothy’s position (I am one and have been) there are times when being prayed for can absolutely make you uncomfortable, but for me this would not be one of them (not AT me, aka let’s all pray over this girl that she finds god, something that actually happened to me in public). And look how happy she is! She’s finding an expression of her faith that doesn’t hurt her, and that doesn’t hurt her friends. I think it’s very important that she is having a positive, lighthearted moment of prayer, because I think it will help Joyce a lot to experience faith, something she draws strength from, as something that does not demand pain and hate, but as something which can bring her joy.
And Dorothy is comfortable getting in on some banter. It speaks to a level of comfort between the characters. As an atheist, I walk this tightrope around people of faith: there are the people who I know want to fix me- for any reason, love, fear, judgement- their open expression of faith around me is often a reminder that their faith precludes accepting me and even that I can’t be honest around them (in extreme cases, looking at you girl in my speech class who blamed atheists for hitler). Then there are people who are very faithful and I feel, for lack of a better word, like an intruder. I know they are at peace with atheism and don’t judge me for it, so I’m more concerned with making sure they understand I don’t respect them less for our differing views on faith. It’s a touchier subject that it might seem. I had one friend, who after finding out I was an atheist, confessed I was the first they’d met who hadn’t implied they were stupid for having their faith. I don’t know how common that is, but they were not the only person who expressed surprise I didn’t respect them less for having faith, despite being an atheist. In my experience, such things can make situations like this awkward, and hard to navigate.
Which is why I find it so nice that this is just a little throwaway bonding moment between Dorothy and Joyce. It shows a progress on Joyce’s part that she is able to do this around Dorothy in a wholly positive manner, and that the two of them have reached a level of comfort with each others beliefs, and it feels like maybe a certain level of respect, that this isn’t awkward for them at all.
…OR I’m reading way, way too much into this based on personal experience. Who knooooows….
I think Joyce finding an aspect of her faith that isn’t wrapped in the toxicity of her home church is super beautiful and I think your analysis is fairly dead on and that these two are becoming more and more comfortable with each other and able to joke more, especially as Joyce has lost a lot of the baggage that separated the world into good people of the faith and bad people without.
And as for shitty atheists. Yeah, there’s a lot out there that mostly just care about feeling smugly superior to people of faith while believing all the toxic bigoted nonsense they look down on religious people for believing (but it’s different because this is based on (bad) science).
I’m personally an atheist, but I’ve had plenty of run-ins with those shitlords and honestly they can just jog right the fuck on.
I’m a Christian, so my pool of reference is limited, but I feel lucky in that I have never personally run into a “shitty atheist”. There’s a whole story about how I made my first atheist friend at public school when he had an antagonistic relationship with a friend from church who was also at that school, but that’s a tale for another day.
I’m also active on activist circles on Twitter, so I have seen some shitty atheists. The transphobic atheist community is so toxic that noted enby botmomdad Nora Reed identifies as “areligious” instead of atheist.
(I think botmomdad was the term zhe used, but I could be remembering incorrectly.)
And yeah, there’s a group of deeply transphobic, racist, and sexist atheists that have served as major players in a lot of hate movements of late including the neo-nazis and the MRAs, not to mention the hate movement that ruined gaming. I’ve been targeted by some of them before. It’s not even remotely fun, because their overinflated sense of their smug superiority tends to make them even more vindictive about trying to actively destroying those they randomly hate.
She’s obviously no Becky, but I think you’re totally right about them reaching a new level of comfort with each other and their religious differences. Dorothy has proven herself a fully qualified 2nd-best friend
You might be projecting a little, but this comic has so many relatable characters and situations there’s certainly room to do so. Either way, have a fist bump from a fellow atheist who doesn’t think “there’s only one correct world view, and that’s MINE, and everyone who doesn’t prescribe to it is wrong.”
“Hi, my name is Chris and I’m a wishful thinker. [“Hi, Chris!”] I have been atheist for 27 years.”
The last panel confused me, because I couldn’t figure out who Joyce was speaking to. Was this some kind of rally for Dorothy? Was she asking someone off-panel to go talk to Chloe? It wasn’t until I read the comment I’m replying to that I realized she was praying.
It’s pretty cool to realize I’ve actually forgotten what praying looks like.
I tend to label myself atheist-leaning agnostic, ’cause it seems to me that if we’ve learned anything, it’s that nothing is 100% certain and anyone who claims to have all the answers is lying or deluded. I put my faith in science(*) because it’s more likely to keep asking questions and not just fall back on “God did it, we can’t understand”, but there are some on both sides who succumb to dogmatism and intellectual rigidity.
(* and I acknowledge, it is faith – I’ve not personally observed/verified relativity, or continental drift, or evolution, or the existence of hurricanes or Australia or distant galaxies, but I put my trust in authorities who tell me these things are real.)
Heck, we don’t even know/can’t absolutely prove whether the universe we observe is real (or merely a simulation, perhaps one in a nested stack thereof), inasmuch as that term has any meaning in such a context…
That’s true. Billie has done a lot of good work as an RA as well. She might be a good choice… IF Chloe steps up her game of looking after alcoholic RAs in her care.
Wow, Billie must really feel better if she is in a position to look out for Dorothy. And given that one of the most important tasks of the new RA will be to look after Billie I dare say this is an important endorsement.
Heh, Roz took inspiration from all this Noir talk of late. “As I entered the office a dame sat on the desk. My heart sank – they had got here before me.”
I like how she rolls with the sex-tape thing. “Yup! Totally did it, totally owns it. “. I dare say she entered the whole non-election thing in a more healthy way than Dorothy. For Dorothy the prospect of losing is a massive blow to her self esteem. For Roz it is more of a “win some, loose some” scenario. If Dorothy gets the position Roz will be the first to wish her luck.
I don’t know if you’ve ever watched the movie Clue (the first one, with Tim Curry), but there’s a scene there that’s almost like that last part.
The characters are gathered in a house because they’re being blackmailed, and this exchange happens:
Miss Peacock: Well, that’s not true!
Curry: You’re not being blackmailed?
Peacock: I am, but I’m innocent!
Ms. White: I too am being blackmailed for something I didn’t do!
Ms. Scarlett: Well, I’m not.
Ms. White: You’re not being blackmailed?
Ms. Scarlet (huge grin): Oh, I am, but I totally did it.
(Ms. White is played by Madeleine Kahn, and between her, Curry, and Martin Mull – who plays Colonel Mustard – the movie has more ham than a herd of pigs, and it’s immensely delightful)
I don’t disagree that it’s the prospect of losing the position that is bothering Dorothy so much, though. She’s upset because people, multiple people, have all told her that she’s unapproachable, cold, unfriendly…
I think if she lost the position but had changed several people’s minds about her, she’d be fine with losing, and entirely graceful about it.
You know what hasn’t be explained and needs to be? Just what was Roz doing in Chole’s office? The obvious answer is that she was there making her case to be made RA but that doesn’t entirely make sense. Assuming Roz has any common sense, she’d know about the “She who asks for it is least qualified” rule for selecting good leadership figures; Robin’s career has probably rubbed the absolute truth of this into her face more than sufficiently. Chloe would probably write: “Needy, pushy and egoistic” in Roz’s ‘No’ box as a result of such an act.
No… I’m wondering if Roz was there complaining about Mary. It occurs to me that, although Billie may have left her afraid to bully in public, that doesn’t mean that she isn’t continuing to make the room a toxic environment for poor Roz.
Finally, I’m putting my marker down: Billie for RA. Why? Because she was the one who (more or less) held Ruth together. She was the one organised enough to make it seem like Ruth was doing her job. She was the one who neutralised Mary’s increasingly-public toxic bigotry and, now, she correctly identifies someone with good qualities for further responsibility.
Yes, Billie has her own immense problems but the fact is that she has shown the right mindset to handle the RA position. Maybe give her ‘deputies’ to support her with her own emotional problems and let her organisational skills and protective instincts towards her peers do the rest.
“She who asks for it is least qualified” what
like
have you ever heard of election campaignsy
have you ever heard of asking for a promotion
…
why would anyone ever pick someone who HADN’T asked for it for a leadership role? like, in real world?
this is the good old ‘bossy and bongoy’ gender trap in your subconscious isn’t it
No, actually it isn’t. I also have the same automatic distrust of professional politicians (male and female alike – yes I noticed your attempt to attempt to erect a gender politics strawman there) for more or less the same reason. I would also, if I were a manager, be very, very cautious of any employee who overtly asked for a promotion because such a request raises uncomfortable questions about motive.
As Billie basically asks: Why would anyone seek power other than for the joy of exercising power over others?
So we should promote people who don’t apply for the position? I assume the same would apply to hiring as well – We only consider candidates who don’t apply.
And elect the politician who is best able to pretend they’re not doing it for their own ambitions. Much like Roz’s early attempt to frame her campaign as “Well a bunch of people on the floor thought I should do it.”
I never ran for any political position. Am I going to be picked as World Dictator? I assume I can’t respond to the announcement with any gladness, or that would disqualify me. Is active resistance the appropriate response, or should I stick with conformed resignation?
Yes, promotion should be offered to the best-qualified candidate. If they don’t want it if offered then that is their business but, no, I wouldn’t personally fish for those ambitious to have power over others. Nothing good ever comes from giving power to personalities like that.
As for politicians? Well, they’re a problem and, yes, I sort of lean towards the ‘elect the best option from those best qualified in the local community’. Those who apply need not apply as they almost certainly will have ulterior motives.
One of the qualifications is motivation and desire for the job. Someone who doesn’t want the job, who isn’t willing to go through effort and risk rejection by putting cards on the tabel and say ‘yes, I want this’ is probably not the right person at the time.
In politics too. We all complain and whine, and we have things to complain and whine about. The ones who don’t apply? The ones who have all their good intentions and their qualifications, but don’t take the time to step forward and get out there and say ‘hey, I can do this’? They clearly aren’t really into changing the world. Because if you WANT to change the world, and you think you have what it takes, you don’t just sit there and think how you could do it better, you go out there and you reach for that power. Because if you don’t, you clearly don’t care enough to actually try. There is nothing wrong with a thirst for power. To be able to change things for the better? That is power.
by this logic, no one should ever ask for a promotion or apply for a job, it just should be OBVIOUS (somehow) thst they’re the best qualified for said job without saying it out liud. Ambition is evil!
Interesting take on Billie. Good bit on knowing how to manage Mary, and for the side of good.
But how are her grades? Wouldn’t that be a thing they look for in an RA?
(Disclaimer: I have been out of college for mumblemumble years. Sure there are things Willis and forum members know about which have changed since my raccoon coat and Stutz Bearcat.)
Jennifer (*hee*) might get there eventually, but the RA needs to be someone who consciously understands how to help people hold their shit together. Billy just stumbled through Ruth’s crisis by way of blind luck and a bit of inner instinct. Dorothy is already there, at least more so than Billy. So a better choice, using your take on this, would be Dorothy as the actual RA and Billy as one of her assistants.
That, of course, is provided they really do hire a freshman, which Billie correctly points out is an incredibly stupid idea. Realistically, they should be considering an older more experienced student, likely someone who is currently “off camera” as it were.
I have to say, from nearly the beginning of the comic, Billie has shown over and over and over a tendency for taking care of people. She goes out of her way to put down “nerds” and in the beginning appears to hope for a similar dynamic for herself from high school. Yet it seems her innate personality is caregiver. She buys Joyce clothes barely knowing her. She held Ruth in the thick of alcoholism and depression together enough so Ruth could at least manage her RA duties. And when that wasn’t possible, Billie held down the fort.
Billie is haunted by self loathing. Which is typical when a former significant other calls you toxic, especially when it was, for the moment talked about, true. She hates herself, not realizing how important she is to the rest of the freshmen. Every time she goes missing, Walky is the first one to freak out. When Ruth was terrorizing people before they got together, Billie was the only one to stand up to her. (Correct me if I’m wrong). Roz never did that. HELL, when Becky needed a living space, Billie gave it to her AND hid the fact from Ruth (though it appeared Ruth herself had her suspicions)
She, as others said, neutralized a toxic student who had been openly transphobic and homophobic to other trans and queer folks in the dorm.
She vouches for a person who expressed interest in replacing her significant other in her position.
Not to mention her life experiences before college.
And Billie did all this WITHOUT any thought of gain. She did it because it’s her nature. She loves her friends and girlfriend. She takes care of people. She has a wonderful head on her shoulders, though she constantly denies it. Doing the right thing if she’s in a position to do so.
GIVING SPACE TO THOSE WHO NEED IT.
I hope Chloe notes this. I love Dorothy and think she’d be good at being an RA, but Billie is best suited for the position. She may not think she wants it, but she certainly deserves it.
So… Billie gets the RA position, Roz and Dorothy get to be her deputies. Not only did neither of them “win”, they have to share 2nd place as well. Yeees, yees, I see great potential here.
Here’s another thought: Does anyone else agree with Billie’s assessment that Roz is ‘too volatile’ to deal with? If so, in what way is she volatile?
FWIW, I suspect that we’re seeing a bit of Roz’s Shortpacked! persona. Like Robin, she’s extremely bad at boundaries and will do whatever it takes to get what she wants. Unlike Robin, she’s a lot worse at controlling her emotions and tends to be more openly aggressive to the point where she is a bit intimidating and overwhelming. No-one on the floor wants to get in the way of the mind that threw a very popular teacher at school under the bus to try to manipulate her older sister. For most people, nothing is worth that sort of trouble.
I mean… Roz does unexpected shit that can get herself and other people in trouble to the point of nation-wide scandals. I imagine from an RA’s point of view this is exactly the definition of ‘volatile’
it’s not like Leslie wasn’t aware that the seduction plan was to out Robin, so Leslie was NOT being manipulated
how is that throwing her under the bus? giving someone an idea is not the same as manipulating their hand
I’m not even aware that the seduction plan was to out Robin, so I’m far from sure Leslie was. I’m still working under the assumption that the seduction plan was to get Robin to change by making her realize she was attracted to women – outing her to herself, if you will, but not publicly.
I’ve no idea what ELI5 means, but here’s how I understand the sentence:
Billie: “I think that freshmen (freshwomen?) are the only ones trying to get the RA position because people know that one of the people they’d be responsible for is Roz. And nobody wants THAT on their plate.”
Ah, thanks. I supposed I could’ve googled it, but I’m still reeling from a Spider-Man comic where Electro tells Shocker that he should see the entry for his name in the Urban Dictionary.
(note, does not literally mean using 5 year old language, but stripping down jargon and assumptions to present a clear explanation understandable by a layperson)
Here’s how I see it: Pop is the informal way to say it, Soda is the formal way to say it, and Soft Drink is the “official” way to say it.
…
And Code is a brand, or a specific drink by said brand.
Where I grew up it was either Soda or Coke. “What sort of soda do you want?” (where the brand couyld create confusion), or “I’m gonna get a Coke, you want one? Whatcha got? We have Root Beer and Mtn Dew.”
Panel One: Awww, Billie. I keep forgetting her name is Jennifer. I was about to wonder whether Chloe was boning up on her information about the kids on that floor, but then I remembered she brought Billie to the health centre too.
Panel Two: Not an unrealistic point, Billie. Most freshmen are in no way competent to be an RA. That’s why it’s usually not offered. They need to be knowledgeable about resources on and off campus, be available to help in a crisis, have good day to day social skills, be good listeners and leaders, and it’d be nice for the school if they had a clean disciplinary record and they were a good student with responsibility experience. Thaaaat does not usually apply to freshmen, who have just hit the ground and are feeling around campus.
I also wonder what Roz is doing here – pressing her case, talking to Chloe, or reporting Mary? Requesting a room transfer? Interesting. I will tuck this into my cap.
Panel Three: Again, not an unfair assessment. Roz is known to rebel against things she thinks are bullshit and she rebels hard, under the philosophy that being small and polite gets one nowhere, as people can use that to ignore you or dawdle. Plenty of activists complain about that. And yeah, I’ve seen people who thought they couldn’t be doing harm to people voicing grievances, because if they were, they surely wouldn’t be so polite about it, right?
Roz admitting this surprises me though. Seems like that would shoot herself in the foot. Maybe she IS here to complain about Mary then, see if she can get herself a new roommate, rather than campaign for RA.
Also, Billie, come on, that’s a shitty thing to hold over someone’s head. *spritzes Billie* Bad Billie.
Panel Four: Awwwww! This is so sweet of Billie. She doesn’t want Ruth to go, she doesn’t want Dorothy – heck, she thinks Dorothy’s a nerd. And no, hanging out probably didn’t help much, if at all. Depression just is an ass like that.
But she tried. And that means something to Billie. Even if that something is just ‘okay, maybe she has the skills necessary to do this’.
Panel Five: I like Chloe. She’s hedging her cards and not promising anything, but agreeing to take it into consideration is fair enough. She seems like a reasonable and nice lady.
Panel Six: I’m with God on this one. My area of Canada pretty solidly calls it pop. And this is cute of Joyce, praying to help Dorothy out and Dorothy and her making affectionate jokes. Faith’s not super awkward for them anymore. Although it might be if Dorothy gets the job and Joyce believes fervently it’s because of prayer. Not meaning any harm of course, but making Dorothy feel devalued regardless. They had a gentle clash on that before and I believe this could get worse before it gets better.
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well now I REALLY don’t believe in God
← Sodatheist
I haven’t had soda since I discovered I hate it when I was 8.
oh I actually hate fountain drinks except when I’m too thirsty to care… they’re always mixed wrong
and I’d rather get a Gatorade if it’s pre-bottled
Me too! I’ve always hated soda since I was, like, 6. Something about that taste combined with the carbonation justuis not consumables to me.
Just is. Damn you, older iPhone.
With that avatar, surely you meant “justice”?
*consumable. Double dog-damn you, older iPhone!
soda theist?
Sod atheist. She doesn’t believe that grassy topsoil exists.
She believes that son, moon, stars and planets are made up of the same sort of worldly matter that comprises sod.
In other words, she believes in Astro-turf.
I do have that, tho
(prior owners were lazy fucks)
My first thought was that a “sod atheist” is either a British religious person who really doesn’t like atheists, or possibly a British male who is an atheist because he was taught that the Bible forbids certain activities.
Or it could be “Sod A theist” …
God is very midwestern. He talks like one of the characters in Fargo. Ya.
Are we talking the movie or the show?
As someone from outside the US, I had no idea that the Midwest was that far north. I’d always kind of assumed it was in the middle of the US. In retrospect, I guess it’s in the middle of the continent, but still.
I have always been wildly amused at the irony of the US’ “South” actually being the Middle East.
Uh, please explain. Godfather is confused.
I think they mean the same latitude as the Middle East.
I will contradict trlkly and offer my interpretation: while they are clearly alluding to the Mediterranean region we call the Middle East, I believe they are saying the region we call the South is actually in the middle of the east coast of North America, so it is in the “middle east” of the continent.
And I forgot this was yesterday’s comic, oops
ok, so, what do you call the parts south of that? 🙂
Usually? Mexico.
During the expansion of the country after independence, what we call the Midwest was known as the Northwest Territory. Thus Northwestern University in Chicago. University of Michigan’s fight song claims to be champions of the west. This was common until 1880, since the actual west was discounted. Looking for a way to refer to the former Northwest, we settled on Midwest, though most of it is east of the Mississippi. But it is west of the Appalachians, which is a cultural divide.
But Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin are part of a linguistic border, what with the mix of immigrant languages. There are some truly weird dialects in Wisconsin, since people use German sentence structure with English words. “Through the cow over the fence some hay.” and such. Don’t get started on Yooperisms, which is like starting on TV Tropes. You can see what is weird where you live See http://aschmann.net/AmEng/
The line between soda and pop seems to run through my home town. My parents were on opposite side of that divide.
Watch out. This is how religious wars start, and you don’t want to go up against the pop people. We have God on our side.
I’d rather have dog on my side
they are friendly =D
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?
DIE, HERETIC!
🙂
Wood or plastic pulpit?
Man, if ST:E is God’s favourite Trek series, He’s got awful taste.
Which would probably go some way to explaining things, really.
What does God need with a favorite Trek series?
Because having one starts fewer wars than having a Chosen People.
What do you think He started the whole universe for? So He could have some decent TV to watch.
You mentioned That Movie.
YOU MENTIONED [b]THAT MOVIE[/b].
You are purest evil.
TBF, it’s that movie’s good line.
I like that movie. It’s exciting!
It could be worse, He might have really liked that Voyager episode with the space lizards.
I like that episode! It’s so amazingly trash it becomes funny again. :p
I saw that episode for the first time fairly recently. It broke my brain SO BADLY. Tom Paris just wanted to go fast. But then… And… WHY?!?!
Nope, not a fan of that one.
As a Michigan transplant to California, I believe in the syncretic Soda-Pop, lord of sugar and carbonated bubbles.
There is only pop. Heretics and the unclean call it soda.
what about people who call it soda pop?
I sometimes call it Coke ironically.
I usually refer to Coca-cola as “cocaine” when I’m around my stepmother. Especially when we’re at the store, surrounded by random strangers.
That’s gold. Trolling level over 9000.
Wasn’t there some energy drink called “Cocaine”?
I do remember reading about that, but I was on Wikipedia, so I can’t be sure it’s true.
Pretty sure the statute of limitations is up, so I can share this one. A friend of mine (who was then working at the local McDonalds) stole a box of scratch-off promotional tickets. I was helping him scratch them off, and whenever one came up “Free Coke”, I’d yell “More Coke!” and make loud snorting noises. What can I say, my sense of humor can be a tad juvenile.
What about foreign heathens like me who call it “soft drink”.
They must all be condemned to be submerged in an ocean of Sierra Mist.
its called mist twist now
The ocean also features one end of a paired time machine.
You don’t gotta be foreign to say “soft drink.”
If anyone’s interested, “pop” is known in the UK, but it’s kind of old-fashioned, and (up here) considered a bit English. “Soft drink” or “fizzy drink” is UK-wide. In Scotland we also call it “juice”, for some reason. (Insert joke about the Scottish diet meaning we consider Irn Bru one of our five a day here).
..And immediately after posting that I started wondering if “five a day” was a thing outside the UK. “Eat more fruit and veg” campaigns, obviously, but the actual phrase?
Different countries have different campaigns, afaik. Like Japan goes for some huge amount a day (I’ve forgotten exactly, but I think it’s in the teens).
And Irn Bru does count to your five a day, right? >_>
Nah, it does get you your daily dose of iron though.
English transplant to the US here. “five a day” is a known phrase where I’m at.
First against the wall, come the great day of the rope.
Nooooooooooo Revolt, not rope.
Still mostly works.
“Mostly” not required.
For executions come by hanging.
infidels
They’re going straight to purgatory. Poor Soda Popinski was doomed from the start…
We call them soft drinks over here in Oz.
Caramel, small crustaceans, creek, carbonated beverage. How do they pronounce it elsewhere? There’s even a site elsewhere where you can test yourself and contribute to the research.
http://www.businessinsider.com/22-maps-that-show-the-deepest-linguistic-conflicts-in-america-2013-6?op=1
Jennifer Billingsworth confirmed for God
Guess this is also evidence that booze exists because God wants us to be happy
No, no, booze exists because God wants to be happy.
It’s not working for Her, but at least She doesn’t have to face it sober.
Noir Dumbing of Age
Narrator: Danny sits at his computer pondering over the code that Joyce had given him, he had checked it against everything from the alphabet to the Declaration of Independence, but there was no way he could check everything. His phone rang.
Danny: Oh hey Joyce.
Joyce: Any headway with the code?
Danny: Sorry.
Joyce: Thanks anyway, listen see if you can find any information on the country Thingley.
Danny: What?
Joyce: It’s a small micro nation, they like to keep hidden.
Danny: I’ll look into it.
Narrator: Danny pulled up Google and typed in “Thingley” nothing useful came up.
Danny: This place really is hidden isn’t it?
Narrator: Meanwhile
Joyce: So…(turns to Reginald) you want to help?
Reginald: Of course! Of course I will need a living quarters. The local hotel will do.
Joyce: You can’t just take over a hotel.
Reginald: I am well versed in your countries democracy. Luckily I have come prepared.
Narrator: A limbo pulls up and a large burley man steps out, he wears a black suit and green tie.
Reginald: This is my assistant/bodyguard, Xaviar. Xaviar, go to the nearest hotel and buy it.
Xaviar: “Nods”
Narrator: Xaviar drives off.
Reginald: Now then, do you know any good eating locations around here?
Joyce: You mean a restaurant?
Reginald: Forgive me, my English is still a bit shaky.
Joyce: I know a pizza place.
Reginald: How quaint.
Fools!
FOOOOOLS!
Welp. Looks like that Verizon subscription is paying off.
Time to post that soda / coke / tonic / pop map again.
Did you ever figure out where carbonated beer and champagne fell on it?
There are people alive who refer to it as “tonic”?
That’s a Boston-area term, yes, but it is fading.
You can still get Moxie in New England. It is an acquired taste, to say the least.
When I lived in New Hampshire I forced myself to acquire said taste. It’s like root beer filtered through a bag of well circulated loose change. And now I like it.
Good description, but I would add one word: Cepacol, a throat rinse for soreness/respiratory inflammation.
It tastes like root beer and cough syrup that hates you.
Market Basket used to have their own store brand sasparilla, that was good stuff. Can’t find it anymore though.
Here’s one version.
http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/308-the-pop-vs-soda-map
I don’t think I know anybody who uses the word soda around here. At least, not regularly. If anything, people I know use both.
Aaaw…small deeds are still good deeds. That’s very sweet of Billie!
Coke, it’s Coke.
Coke is Coke
Pepsi is Coke
Fanta is Coke
Those yummy lemon Italian fizzy drinks are Cokes.
Or, y’know, soft drinks, if you aren’t into the whole brevity thing, man.
Atlanta?
Not sure what you are asking, but…
No, I do not live in Atlanta.
No, I do not worship the ancient huntress.
No, I do not think that is what the delicious lemon flavoured Italian soft drinks are called.
The thing with calling it coke is that, unlike any of the other descriptors, it actually adds a layer of ambiguity. Since, you know, Coke and Pepsi are “totally different” and “how dare you get them mixed up” and “I hate Coke but love Pepsi” and all that.
But seriously, Sprite and Sierra Mist are different as night and day and I will die on this hill.
Also, don’t look upthread, I have made no comments there
Where I come from, Sprite and Sierra Mist are types of Lemonade. Have a Coke while you reconcile that.
ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EUROPA
I got a reference!
Arthur C Clarke High Five!
No other orange soda is an adequate substitute for Sunkist.
As far as I’ve been able to determine, Sunkist is the only caffeinated orange soda.
It’s funny – there are times when I want actual orange flavor, like the juice, and other times, it’s specifically artificial orange that I crave.
That’s so strange to me…
“You want a coke?” “Oh, I don’t like coke. Could I have a Fanta?” “What, I thought you said you don’t like coke?”
Or alternatively…
“Can I have a coke please?” “Sure, what kind?” “A coke sounds good.”
Like, WTF?
the raw power of marketing
(and regional brand identity)
I’ll answer that in a minute, I just need to shut down my Dell and get a Kleenex, they are on the office Xerox machine.
I need an Aspirin, but the bottle is wrapped in Cellophane. Stupid childproof tops.
I finally found the Aspirin amid the Highlighters and Post-it Notes. You can open it with an Exacto-knife, but I didn’t have one of those so I threw it like a Frisbee into the wall; it Ping-pong’d off and hit me in the head! Maybe I’ll just give up and try to relax in my Jacuzzi.
Wait, there are people that use Dell to mean generic PC? Or does it mean generic laptop?
(I live close to silicon valley, and I have never ever heard this. I guess tech is sacred to us.)
Should be some in the Frigidaire.
pft. I remember when they were all called Nintendos
Wait, you called soft drinks Nintendos?
I don’t think drinking with you makes her a good R.A. Billie.
Cue another “What do you call soft drinks where you live?” subthread. (In my part of Canada it’s pop.)
I wonder if Pudding Head is going to reveal, “Of course, neither of you are in contention for the job so the fact you’ve both shown up asking about it and referencing elections makes me wonder if you’ve been doing drugs. I’ve also got a short list of candidates of people who applied for the job who are actually of age to do it.”
Pudding head woman seems to be pretty cool so far, so I’m sure she’d let them down easy.
Well, since no one has actually said anything about elections to Chloe (or at all really?), I’m not sure why she’d say that.
According to Dorothy, who apparently did first talk to Chloe about it, she doesn’t actually have a short list of qualified candidates. If she did, you’d think she’d have told Dorothy when she first asked rather than agreeing to consider her.
Fuckin’ THANK YOU! It’s in canon how stupid it is to consider Freshman as immediate RAs. Such catharsis.
That being said, this is a wonderful gesture on Billie’s part – sweet, even. And that cutaway joke is perfection
Seconded on all of this!
They put Ruth in charge of a floor despite the fact she’s quite possibly the least qualified person possible to do the job. Forgetting all the various health issues and addictions, the fact she violently threatens her charges means Pudding Head is an AWFUL judge of character.
And yet she was more qualified than any of the other options, including those serving as RAs for other floors…
And there we understand why there is at least the perception that she is considering freshmen.
Chloe told Dorothy she would field her application if it was good.
I think that list has either been well and truly burned through or it was non-existent because the applicants who didn’t get in were total bottom of the barrel shit.
Almost every potential employer would say that to almost every applicant. It doesn’t actually promise anything.
I kinda want to see this whole RA thing end with someone completely unheard of getting the job and puddin’ head saying “what, you think just because you’ve been pushing for it the world revolves around you?”
Especially if she says it to Roz. Roz doesn’t hear that nearly enough.
No, it doesn’t promise them the job, but it is a thing they can apply and be considered for, even if, as Chloe told Dorothy, it is still a longshot that anything other than ‘Hm, do I want a freshman? nah.” is the level of consideration being offered.
I’m holding out for SIDNEY YUS
WHO WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE LAST OF
Not really. If you don’t actually meet the normal qualification and are suggesting a special exemption, there’s little reason to encourage her.
College kids are awful. Science fact.
If the others are worse they need to get a lawsuit going…
Kind of just goes to show how bad the other RAs are that Ruth was considered the best one and how slim the pickings must have been since Ruth’s kindness varied on a day to day basis and her primary other good trait is that she isn’t a bigot. We’ve seen her do an okay job with a few select things so Ruth wasn’t 100% incompetent, but she was kind of just competent enough that people didn’t report her at best.
I think the actual theory is that Ruth hid how bad she was by running a tight ship and never letting any problems reach her superiors – by fear if necessary. While the other RAs may well actually have been better, but they didn’t hide the problems they did have, so they seemed less under control.
Agreed.
It could just be clever lampshading
I knew I liked Dorothy for a reason.
The Lord works in mysterious ways, I suppose…
she also likes her drink strong.
And through mysterious agents.
I love your gravatar, by the way.
I still call it soda, but my boyfriend calls it fizz and for some reason I find that goddamn delightful.
Also, Roz, it’s usually NOT a good idea to call yourself uncontrollable at a job interview. Just….no.
Also, as an aside since there’s some audience overlap, I started following Questionable Content again and am extremely tempted to change my gravatar to Smirky AI because I also find them goddamn delightful.
Which smirky AI? The one in the suit?
You mean Gary?
Which one’s Gary?
“Gary” is the AI that mysteriously announced to the world that they would take care of everything now. (Much) later the robot in the suit (Spookybot, as Jeph called them) suddenly appeared and took care of everything. You cannot tell me those two people are not the same.
I wonder if Roz will get the position and then discover it’s because her sister is a Congresswoman.
Then again, her going crazy with power could be entertaining.
Roz: I will make this floor great again!
Billie: Listen…
Roz: You’re out.
Billie: What?
Roz: I signed a RA order.
Billie: That’s illegal!
Roz: I will make it legal!
“You ever try going mad without power? It’s terrible, no one listens to you.”
You make a good point, Billie, but there’s just something about unknown evil…
We are non-biased in my little town (Lawrence, KS). You can call it whatever you want. Most people seem to say “beverage”.
*plays the old Shasta “I Wanna POP” jingle on the hacked Muzak*
*Puts a quarter in the jukebox loaded with 45s…*
(It’s scary how well I remember that song.)
I’m really glad to see Billie not feeling completely horrible. Obviously still has a way to go, but I’m happy Dotty was able to help even a little
Does this mean Billy was God all along?
Man, if she was her existance would be even more miserable; her human body constantly trying to die from alcohol poisoning from misuse of her ability to turn water into wine but unable to because it’s just a fleshy host for her immortal self.
This was my conclusion as well.
Who said the second coming had to be male? Either that or Dan Brown was going down the right trail and Billie is the many greats granddaughter of God via Mary Magdalene and a long French line that became Norman and then English (cause I’m going to assume the last name Billingsworth is an English last name).
New headcanon.
Needs more Apostle Rufus.
I thinks it is canon that Mr. Billingsworth is a born Briton.
Now is he nouveau rich, or old money gentry. Because that could determine wether Billie is the female reincarnation of Jesus (remember, the guy did like to drink apparently strong wine) or if she’s his descendant and thus DoA’s alcoholic Aragorn (Aragorn was descended from the line of Bergen and Luthien, Luthien being the daughter of an elf and a Maiar aka a lesser angel/goddess spiritual being, born directly from the thoughts of Eru aka God, this meaning Aragorn had divine blood running through his veins in addition too some elven blood and the three different human ethnic groups pre-Numenor).
Sorry, I really needed to explain that second analogy for those not versed in the lore of Arda (Middle-Earth).
I’ve always called it pop, but the thing that weirds me out is that apparently some people call all kinds of soft drinks coke. Coke is a brand name. At least calling it soda makes sense.
Tbf: xerox, kleenex, bandaid, and google are all brand names too.
Is Xerox supposed to be a copy/copier? I just say those.
I say Kleenex because I only buy Kleenex brand. Same goes for Google and searches.
I personally use bandage over bandaid.
As is “emoji”. The generic terms, by the by, are “copy”, “tissue”, “adhesive bandage”, “search”, and “emoticon”.
In the area I live in (which seems to be an area that calls it coke), Coke-brand soda is infinitely more popular and in greater supply than other brands of soda, which might have an influence on it. It’s like with kleenexes; yeah, Kleenex is the name of a brand, not the product, but it’s so ubiquitous you can’t help but associate the two.
Down here in my end of OZ, it’s soft drink. And tissues (kleenex is just a brand of tissue). Bandaid used as a generic term however. Soda only applies to unflavoured soda water (used as a mixer), and pop just means a form of music (except in some older British shows).
Just don’t ask about potato cakes vs potato scallops (neither of which has anything to do with scalloped potatoes), the last time that was raised it caused a surprisingly strident twitter war that took days to run out of steam and settled nothing (I still have the scars, the horror, the horror). 🙂
Don’t you mean “escalloped potatoes”?
Wait, depending on region, “coke” could mean “carbonated water”?
That’s scary. I mean, I get if people call any brand of cola “coke”, but anything that’s unflavoured, too?
No, things with flavors as well. A Sprite is also a coke, as is a grape soda or a root beer.
My problem with comparing this to Kleenex is that coke isn’t just a brand name, it’s a specific flavor. That’s not true of Kleenex. If I ask you for a Kleenex, you’re not going to say, “sure, which kind of Kleenex?”
Sorry, but the Lord doesn’t recognize the corn syrup atrocities that the US drinks. Cane sugar all the way, baby.
Pepsi makes versions of their flagship cola and Mountain Dew with real sugar in the US. I just wish it was still available in 2L bottles.
They also brought back the diet formula from yesteryear. Mmmmm aspartame..
Roz is already trying to chum it up with the deciding power, uh.
Probably won’t do her any good. Having “ground support” and treating it like an election does nothing for a job that’s based on interviews. Plus, she’s already put the college in hot water for streaming herself having sex, which would be a big strike against her. Add to the fact that they are probably looking for responsible people and not people they hope the authority would make responsible, Roz would not be a first pick.
Of course, I could just be biased against Roz. I find her grating and inconsiderate. Plus, I’m not convinced she didn’t just take up left-wing politics to spite her once popular right-wing sister.
Well, that, and people forget we’re not even sure Ruth is gonna get fired.
Though I wouldn’t be surprised if some level of support from the floor would help – especially if phrased like Billie’s doing here rather than some pretense at a popularity contest.
I do find it hard to believe they’d really consider Roz – whether it should be or not, the video would be a huge strike against her.
Nobody likes “Enterprise”. That show was wet garbage. If I wanted to watch a bunch of assholes in their underwear bumble around in space I will write my own porn parody thank you.
I love Enterprise.
It has better writing , and better plots, and better acting the Next Generation,
and doesmt solve ever problem with Technobabble in the last 5 mins.
I’m not big on Enterprise, but God is a known fan.
Unfortunately, God was only a fan during the first two seasons. As soon as it started actually getting really good, he lost interest and made them cancel it.
However, he later changed his mind and begged the producers to bring it back, but by then it was too late.
TOS all the way, you kulaks.
A god that does not reckognise the word “soda” is not a god worth worshiping.
The Alt-text is the best argument for atheism I’ve ever seen.
This strip gave me a very strange sense of Deja Vu. It obviously isn’t content I’ve seen before. It would have to be something about the timing and staging – coming in to talk, the one interjection by Roz, the jump cut to Joyce being very Joyce.
Is there some other comic this parallels? Or am I just getting the feeling from nothing?
So the alt-text explains why the big guy let George Lucas make Episodes I-III.
µNo, that’d be because hoolywood likes milking cows
But Episode VII and Rogue One were done right and were good movies, and that’s just Disney milking/rebuilding (Lucas did a lot of damage) the franchise. If Lucas had been less involved, or if there had been people to tell him “no” like there was for the original trilogy, (and I know these next words that I type may be Star Wars blasphemy) the prequels could have been great. It was an unfettered George Lucas who made them bad!!!
Thank you, Billie, for being the voice of reason in a moment where anyone is listening to Roz.
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: It is still very disconcerting when I see Billie referred to as Jennifer. It’s like, oh yeah, that’s her legal name, isn’t it? I swear that’s practically becoming or has become a dead name for her.
Panel 2: Roz lounging on Chloe’s desk like the cover to a lesbian pulp novel is a striking visual. I know she’s canon no attraction to women, but I’m definitely questioning more and more whether she’s some form of non-binary.
And thank you Billie for pointing that out. It is pretty baffling that they’re considering freshmen for the position, especially as it’s not entirely clear whether they are or if Dorothy and Roz are just go-getter enough personalities to press their case frequently and strongly and Chloe is trying to keep her cards close to her chest.
Panel 3, Aspect 1: I feel like this makes a nice pair with Panel 2, especially the fact that well, the reason that the RA job is a big one not given to Freshmen is because it’s a mentorship role to folks in a chaotic time in their lives and well, that’s always going to be hard. Like, just in this hall, we have three people going through various forms of intense emotional crises (Amber, Joyce, Billie), we have three anti-authoritarian types with a penchant for winding up authority (Sal, Carla, Roz), and we have one dangerous bully who has already tried to blackmail a student into suicide (Mary).
That’s a lot to take on. It’s not atypical for mentoring students this age, but it’s still a lot.
Panel 3, Aspect 2: I’m fascinated by the casual way Roz owns this. Like, she’s being called out about her sex tape and freely admitting that she’d probably be trouble for an RA, so she’d probably be trouble to manage for Chloe if she got the permission.
Which would basically torpedo her campaign and it’s probably not lost on anyone that what Roz wants most is not to be sharing a room with Mary anymore, so I wonder if a possible reason that Roz is in her is to try and make a deal that if it’s Dorothy, she can bunk in with Sierra and move out of her hell room.
Also, someone mentioned in the Patreon preview that they thought that Roz might be fully supportive of Dorothy winning and I think this scene gives credence to that.
I’m curious, what makes you wonder if Roz is nonbinary?
It’s mostly the outfits and the passionate often angry stance on queer issues.
The outfits because I swear half the outfits she’s been wearing of late have practically been nonbinary uniforms in that I’ve seen so many nonbinary folks and butch lesbians wearing them. And this outfit especially, with the vest and tie is something half of my nonbinary kids have worn at one point or another.
And the angry stance on queer issues, because… well, powerful angry allies do exist and are wonderful, but the way she gets heavily invested reminds me a lot of myself before I figured out I was various identities and the angry way I would ally a bit “too” forcefully and take it a bit too personal (because it was personal, not that I knew that yet).
And from observation, that tends to be a common thing, where a good number of the fierce ally types end up being queer eggs close to hatching. Again, could just be some standard investment and a tendency for the dapper but I dunno. My sensors are tripping a lot nonetheless.
Makes sense! I can totally see your point, but at the same time I’ve found myself getting more invested in trans/nb representation and issues as more and more of my friends have come out, and I’m pretty solidly cis–just that it matters to people I love, so it matters to me.
(Apologies if that sounds like ally-bragging, I don’t mean to come off that way! Just offering another view…please let me know if I’m out of line.)
Nah, that’s totally a thing too. 🙂
Honestly, I’ve started wondering lately if Roz might be gender-fluid. I’m not a big expert on gender identity, but one of my friends is bisexual gender-fluid with a preference for women, and Roz reminds me a lot of her aside from the “bisexual with a preference for women” part.
Yeah, I could definitely see her being genderfluid.
That’d be neat, since there is a SERIOUS deficit of real gender-fluid representation in media — even moreso than other non-binary gender identities. Off the top of my head, I can think of Irma and Tedd, from the webcomics The Princess and El Goonish Shive respectively. And I guess you could stretch it and classify Ranma from Ranma 1/2.
I shall wait with bated breath.
No way is Ranma gender-fluid. He’s always mentally male whatever his physical form.
But with all the gender bending that goes on in manga and anime, you’d think there would be characters comfortable in either role. Just can’t think of any at the moment.
Iiiiii think an argument could actually be made for very specifically the manga version. It was something I noticed kind of abruptly around the eleventh volume of the manga, that Ranma’s mannerisms were bleeding.
There were things that Ranma did initially _only_ in “girl” mode, which at some point he started doing even when not. It’s been years but I still have one of the panels in my head where he adopts that hands-fisted-below-chin-sparkly-eyes-little-flowers-appear-in-the-air-around-his-head pose. It was just an unguarded happy response to something one of the other characters had said, and it was something he’d done in “girl” mode earlier in the chapter, and it was followed by a kind of happy-bounce-away, which also struck me as something he’d regarded as “girl”-only.
Takahashi Rumiko wasn’t the most progressive writer, and she was writing a comedy manga in Japan in the 90s, and other disclaimers, but there’s a lot of potential for queer readings of the characters in this manga. You just have to read it while also kind of wincing and being ready for things not being done very well.
But if you strip the character of Ranma out of that context and you examine him critically, what you’ve got is a character who was explicitly raised by only his extremely sexist father for ~11 years, who sometimes went to all-boys schools and had, prior to coming to live with the Tendou family, really never had prolonged exposure to any women before. Deliberately so, because his (again, extremely sexist) father believed that letting his son be exposed to feminine influence at any point would somehow destroy him as a martial artist.
And, whether Takahashi intended it or not, the text supports Ranma as initially being so strongly against his “curse” because he’d absorbed his father’s sexism, and as having vehemently suppressed any even slightly feminine traits in himself, but gradually coming to see femininity as not so terrible, as something that he’s able to eventually embrace and enjoy. (Complicated by the late-story arc where Ranma’s mom turns up and his dad reveals that he made a ludicrous promise to turn Ranma into a pillar of masculinity on penalty of literal death.)
This comment is probably more thought than Takahashi put into Ranma’s gender identity at literally any point, but like I said I think an argument could actually be made here.
@Li: I have come from the future to say that I agree with your consummate overanalysis.
That’s a thing? I keep finding words in here that seem to describe me better than I ever gave the question consideration…
I’m glad you were able to find that word, and yup, that’s totally a thing. 🙂
Roz certainly already has a metaphorical pair of large, cast-iron balls.
Roz and Sierra would make pretty amazing roommates.
Yeah, right? Like, if I was Roz, I’d be backing Dorothy for that aspect alone.
I can’t believe “not living with Mary” did not occur to me as a possible motive. Of course she’s after the job!
I would probably eat people to get out of that situation
Honestly, Roz’s quest for actual independence drives a lot of her actions. Her glee at her sister’s self-destruction, her attempt to push for a freshman RA, her sexuality activism. She’s a woman who’s been denied a lot of agency growing up and really does see college as her chance to really explore who she really is and live free and is willing to fight for that.
Problem being, I really don’t think she cares that much about what she has to do, or who she has to hurt, to get what she wants.
And that, still IMO, is where she’s a lot like her sister.
(Okay, ‘hurt’ may be a little strong. But if she had to push someone else out of the way, or step over them, to gain her own freedom? Yeah, she would.)
Yeah, but that’s where shifting context is interesting to me. Cause I can definitely feel desperation to survive and become free even if that means being callous to the feelings of another or having to accept a relationship will never be repaired. I’ve been there. And I’ve seen the people who’ve watched too many friends die celebrate and cheer the death of monsters who smirked as that happened and worked their ass off to ensure that.
And in the new era of Trump, I’ve had to seriously consider, what would I do to keep those I care about safe. What are my limits if it got to that point? It’s a daunting thing to think about.
And Roz’s actions (which I’d argue never were all that bad, mostly just callous) change in that calculus too. If you were that trapped by a bigot’s eternal campaign, how hard would you cheer to be free? If you were stuck in a room with someone who thinks everyone like you should burn in hell forever (which is something I feel deeply considering my first roommate actually tried to perform an exorcism on me while I was sleeping (I slept in the study box a lot more after that night)) and who liked to put their bigotry into horrible action, how hard would you fight for any chance to be free?
I dunno, her actions get even more understandable in those contexts.
Fair enough. Thanks for the insight (always) and the privilege check. And keep yourself and those who depend on you safe.
Nah, I don’t buy she’s just trying to get away from Mary. That may be one thing she’s considering, but it’s not the only thing. I mean, if that was her goal, there are other ways to do that.
I didn’t stay with my first roommate in college. Or my second one.
Ah, the epic battle of what is the correct term for a soft drink still continues.
Something feels ineffably slimy here about Roz being here making herself at home in Chloe’s office. It’s not like Roz doesn’t have every right to be there and even to make her case for herself as RA, as seems the most likely purpose of her visit… But somehow it feels slimy. Maybe it’s the body language, half-sitting on Chloe’s desk, especially putting herself right next to Chloe, even with her from the perspective of the doorway…
Might not be intentional, but it’s an awkward position for actually talking to Chloe – back mostly towards her, would have to twist her head around to look at her.
It’s a good position for presenting an apparently united front to anyone coming through the door though.
Panel 3, Aspect 3: I’m fascinated by how the real world adds extra context to the actions within the panels. Dorothy being called Hillary Clinton Jr in the context of this last election cycle. Carla being targeted by Mary when all the bathroom bills were exploding everywhere and schools were increasing their harassment of trans students and where churches were targeting trans folks as the new group to hate.
And so, I feel the new context of a Trump world adds a new perspective to Roz. Like, her main flaws are that she goes all-in very quickly, not willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt before firing with both barrels and willing to cheer and whoop for the underhanded tactic if it removes someone dangerous from power.
Which in an Obama world might have seemed excessive, suddenly becomes very apropos in a world where the stakes really are terrifying and bigots really do need to be woken up to the horror reality of their actions and that our lives aren’t actually a fucking game of who is more “pure”. Where every Republican yanked from office gets us closer to having a chance to undo a terrible mistake before any more damage is done to families and the lives of those on the margins.
And that’s fascinating to me.
Panel 4: And I love Billie doing this here. She doesn’t want Ruth replaced. She thinks this all is stupid. She doesn’t particularly like Dorothy and thinks she is a nerd. But she recognizes that the quiet skill Dorothy showed to meet her where she was and listen to her would be the traits of a great RA and wants the person making the decision to know that.
And that’s the sweetest damn thing.
Panel 5: Ah, guarded interviewer language. Leaves a lot in the dark as to what is happening behind the surface besides blind panic and a dartboard with several names on it in case things get desperate.
Panel 6: Now I’m leaning towards Dorothy getting it, just because I want to see the interaction as Joyce becomes convinced her appeal to God got the position for Dorothy.
Also, proof that Joyce worships Caucasian Jesus rather than Historical Jesus. God being a proud midwesterner.
Panel four is also a sad reminder of just how desperately Billie needs support. How much she treasures any outstretched hand because it’s so rare.
Before moving to California one of the people I was friends with before long distance and my current clique quietly ended with (and I really should contact again) was a Mirazhi Jew whose parents had migrated from Iraq in the 1980s. I swear his dad looked just like historical Jesus, and he said pop all the time. Just something I was reminded of. So historical Jesus could very well say “pop”. It would also probably be easier for a guy speaking Aramaic, Hebrew, and some form of Vulgar Latin or Koine Greek to say “pop” instead of “soda” if he decided to learn English. Dammit now I need to know which one Yeshua Ben Yoseph would say.
Given Shortpacked was in San Francisco, the regional map says “proooooobably soda”. But then he came out of the resurrection tube capable of speaking English, so he probably learned from a different source than just “everyone else in the store says it this way”. Also, Colorado appears to be a “pop” state and that could affect things.
I’d wonder which one Galasso uses, but the answer to that probably involves at least two “Fools!” and is waaaaay more technical than any non-Galasso entity would ever say in common parlance.
“And so, I feel the new context of a Trump world adds a new perspective to Roz. Like, her main flaws are that she goes all-in very quickly, not willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt before firing with both barrels and willing to cheer and whoop for the underhanded tactic if it removes someone dangerous from power.”
When I was reading these 2 sentences, I was thinking “ah, this is about Trump’s actions.”And then I read on and it turns out it’s about the *response* to Trump’s actions. Every movement needs its guns blazing fighters to get the intellectuals heads out of their own asses and into actually getting something worthwhile done, but it’s worth keeping in mind.
Also, what history research shows Jesus called it soda?!
Your third paragraph got me to thinking about something that’s been simmering in the back of my mind for a while. What do you think about Evan McMullin? Is he really an outstanding Republican resistor, or is he a false hope like John Kasich?
Honestly?
I think it’s great that he exists and is resisting in his own way and giving Republicans a means to separate themselves from outright nazism and I encourage that. But at the same time I don’t fully trust him, because he’s still conservative and holds bigoted views towards groups I belong to and has been involved in active bigotry against them (cough cough Prop 8).
But yeah, in general, very happy that he’s been consistently fighting against this monstrosity at least and that he isn’t doing the annoying thing of demanding the folks he’s hurt in the past shut up forever because he’s “on the right side now” and I hope to see some more conservatives of conscience who aren’t quite willing to go full nazi as they are going to be crucial in tearing this shit down before the only way out is complete violent revolution.
This actually got me thinking “Hey, what’s Rob Portman been doing lately? He changed his mind on gay-marriage and seems to be becoming more liberal on the issues of gender discrimination and such. Oh hey, he opposes the Muslim ban and is supporting the judges who are attempting to nix it, cool.” Honestly, I kinda hope he follows a Lincoln Chaffee-esque route.
I’ve been following McMullin on Twitter, and I think he might be too distracted opposing Trump’s blatant power grabs and highlighting the various ways he’s overstepping constitutional lines in his quest for fascist domination over all branches of government to focus on any bigoted policies he himself may support. He’s pretty entrenched against Trump, so worst case scenario he doesn’t regress until after we’ve solved that problem, and best case scenario he becomes integrated with other forms of activism through his opposition to Trump. Fingers crossed and all that.
Ok, but for serious the last panel is a very sweet moment. Joyce is holding on to her faith without holding on to the toxic baggage she thought she needed to have that faith. She’s praying in the presence of her friend, for her friend, but only because she’s praying for something good to happen for her. It is in no way passive aggressive and Dorothy is comfortable enough with it for banter- which I think is important! I think Joyce has learned enough empathy that she would care if her praying made Dorothy uncomfortable and apologize. As an atheist in Dorothy’s position (I am one and have been) there are times when being prayed for can absolutely make you uncomfortable, but for me this would not be one of them (not AT me, aka let’s all pray over this girl that she finds god, something that actually happened to me in public). And look how happy she is! She’s finding an expression of her faith that doesn’t hurt her, and that doesn’t hurt her friends. I think it’s very important that she is having a positive, lighthearted moment of prayer, because I think it will help Joyce a lot to experience faith, something she draws strength from, as something that does not demand pain and hate, but as something which can bring her joy.
And Dorothy is comfortable getting in on some banter. It speaks to a level of comfort between the characters. As an atheist, I walk this tightrope around people of faith: there are the people who I know want to fix me- for any reason, love, fear, judgement- their open expression of faith around me is often a reminder that their faith precludes accepting me and even that I can’t be honest around them (in extreme cases, looking at you girl in my speech class who blamed atheists for hitler). Then there are people who are very faithful and I feel, for lack of a better word, like an intruder. I know they are at peace with atheism and don’t judge me for it, so I’m more concerned with making sure they understand I don’t respect them less for our differing views on faith. It’s a touchier subject that it might seem. I had one friend, who after finding out I was an atheist, confessed I was the first they’d met who hadn’t implied they were stupid for having their faith. I don’t know how common that is, but they were not the only person who expressed surprise I didn’t respect them less for having faith, despite being an atheist. In my experience, such things can make situations like this awkward, and hard to navigate.
Which is why I find it so nice that this is just a little throwaway bonding moment between Dorothy and Joyce. It shows a progress on Joyce’s part that she is able to do this around Dorothy in a wholly positive manner, and that the two of them have reached a level of comfort with each others beliefs, and it feels like maybe a certain level of respect, that this isn’t awkward for them at all.
…OR I’m reading way, way too much into this based on personal experience. Who knooooows….
I think Joyce finding an aspect of her faith that isn’t wrapped in the toxicity of her home church is super beautiful and I think your analysis is fairly dead on and that these two are becoming more and more comfortable with each other and able to joke more, especially as Joyce has lost a lot of the baggage that separated the world into good people of the faith and bad people without.
And as for shitty atheists. Yeah, there’s a lot out there that mostly just care about feeling smugly superior to people of faith while believing all the toxic bigoted nonsense they look down on religious people for believing (but it’s different because this is based on (bad) science).
I’m personally an atheist, but I’ve had plenty of run-ins with those shitlords and honestly they can just jog right the fuck on.
I’m a Christian, so my pool of reference is limited, but I feel lucky in that I have never personally run into a “shitty atheist”. There’s a whole story about how I made my first atheist friend at public school when he had an antagonistic relationship with a friend from church who was also at that school, but that’s a tale for another day.
I’m also active on activist circles on Twitter, so I have seen some shitty atheists. The transphobic atheist community is so toxic that noted enby botmomdad Nora Reed identifies as “areligious” instead of atheist.
(I think botmomdad was the term zhe used, but I could be remembering incorrectly.)
Yup, botmomdad is hirs term for hirself.
And yeah, there’s a group of deeply transphobic, racist, and sexist atheists that have served as major players in a lot of hate movements of late including the neo-nazis and the MRAs, not to mention the hate movement that ruined gaming. I’ve been targeted by some of them before. It’s not even remotely fun, because their overinflated sense of their smug superiority tends to make them even more vindictive about trying to actively destroying those they randomly hate.
She’s obviously no Becky, but I think you’re totally right about them reaching a new level of comfort with each other and their religious differences. Dorothy has proven herself a fully qualified 2nd-best friend
You might be projecting a little, but this comic has so many relatable characters and situations there’s certainly room to do so. Either way, have a fist bump from a fellow atheist who doesn’t think “there’s only one correct world view, and that’s MINE, and everyone who doesn’t prescribe to it is wrong.”
“Hi, my name is Chris and I’m a wishful thinker. [“Hi, Chris!”] I have been atheist for 27 years.”
The last panel confused me, because I couldn’t figure out who Joyce was speaking to. Was this some kind of rally for Dorothy? Was she asking someone off-panel to go talk to Chloe? It wasn’t until I read the comment I’m replying to that I realized she was praying.
It’s pretty cool to realize I’ve actually forgotten what praying looks like.
I tend to label myself atheist-leaning agnostic, ’cause it seems to me that if we’ve learned anything, it’s that nothing is 100% certain and anyone who claims to have all the answers is lying or deluded. I put my faith in science(*) because it’s more likely to keep asking questions and not just fall back on “God did it, we can’t understand”, but there are some on both sides who succumb to dogmatism and intellectual rigidity.
(* and I acknowledge, it is faith – I’ve not personally observed/verified relativity, or continental drift, or evolution, or the existence of hurricanes or Australia or distant galaxies, but I put my trust in authorities who tell me these things are real.)
(self-demonstrating qualifier to my first sentence above – or speaking imprecisely. :p )
Heck, we don’t even know/can’t absolutely prove whether the universe we observe is real (or merely a simulation, perhaps one in a nested stack thereof), inasmuch as that term has any meaning in such a context…
How dare you, Willis. You come into my house and you call it “pop” instead of soda. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Willis what, just…broke into your house and started talking about beverages? Irrelevant regional terminology aside, that is kind of shameful.
It’s “coke,” ya carpetbaggers!
I call it pop. Come at me and bring your biggest, toughest guys with their best guns, the ones they named after girls.
I call it “soda”
And in “Scrapped Princess” all the girls are named after guns.
Roz looks oddly sexy even with her 10 gallon hat.
She’s in the Return of the Anthill Mob – https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=anthill+mob&client=ubuntu&hs=DBa&channel=fs&tbm=isch&imgil=jtId3q9KlT6oeM%253A%253BGThA6f9tZnbByM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fphotobucket.com%25252Fimages%25252Fthe%2525252520ant%2525252520hill%2525252520mob&source=iu&pf=m&fir=jtId3q9KlT6oeM%253A%252CGThA6f9tZnbByM%252C_&usg=__fZSSI0PLxPcUZ_6QwpXn-TqeSTg%3D&biw=1366&bih=618&ved=0ahUKEwjs2LbMuorSAhVLciYKHd_dANwQyjcIJw&ei=Z0egWKyJKcvkmQHfu4PgDQ#imgrc=9C31qnPImbbq-M:
Wow, it only took five words and one facial expression for me to find Roz intensely annoying.
Impressive.
Meanwhile Chloe is vigorously circling where she wrote “Billy?” On her secret notes about RA options. She then writes an “!” Over the “?”.
After all, when Ruth was… slacking… because of her depression previously, it was Billy who stepped forward to solve issues that arose on the floor.
I feel like Billy grows up to be pretty valuable in an organizational context, but I don’t feel like it happens today.
That’s true. Billie has done a lot of good work as an RA as well. She might be a good choice… IF Chloe steps up her game of looking after alcoholic RAs in her care.
Well, Chloe didn’t know Ruth was alcoholic. Maybe she should have.
They do know about Billie – it’s in her paperwork.
And her picture’s posted behind the counter at every packie in the neighborhood.
As a “preferred customer”.
She doesn’t seem to have any trouble buying.
Wow, Billie must really feel better if she is in a position to look out for Dorothy. And given that one of the most important tasks of the new RA will be to look after Billie I dare say this is an important endorsement.
Heh, Roz took inspiration from all this Noir talk of late. “As I entered the office a dame sat on the desk. My heart sank – they had got here before me.”
I like how she rolls with the sex-tape thing. “Yup! Totally did it, totally owns it. “. I dare say she entered the whole non-election thing in a more healthy way than Dorothy. For Dorothy the prospect of losing is a massive blow to her self esteem. For Roz it is more of a “win some, loose some” scenario. If Dorothy gets the position Roz will be the first to wish her luck.
I don’t know if you’ve ever watched the movie Clue (the first one, with Tim Curry), but there’s a scene there that’s almost like that last part.
The characters are gathered in a house because they’re being blackmailed, and this exchange happens:
Miss Peacock: Well, that’s not true!
Curry: You’re not being blackmailed?
Peacock: I am, but I’m innocent!
Ms. White: I too am being blackmailed for something I didn’t do!
Ms. Scarlett: Well, I’m not.
Ms. White: You’re not being blackmailed?
Ms. Scarlet (huge grin): Oh, I am, but I totally did it.
(Ms. White is played by Madeleine Kahn, and between her, Curry, and Martin Mull – who plays Colonel Mustard – the movie has more ham than a herd of pigs, and it’s immensely delightful)
That sounds… that sounds like the best thing ever, frankly.
Excuse me, I have a movie to watch.
IT IS THE BEST THING EVER!!!
It’s amazing!
“Flames. Flames on the side of my face. Breathing hot…”
Even better than hugs and chocolate cake?
Noooo. I guess not.
But you could hug and watch it and have chocolate cake!
There’s a lot of wonderful wordplay like that, toying with audience expectations and how dialogue usually works, and it’s just so much fun.
I don’t disagree that it’s the prospect of losing the position that is bothering Dorothy so much, though. She’s upset because people, multiple people, have all told her that she’s unapproachable, cold, unfriendly…
I think if she lost the position but had changed several people’s minds about her, she’d be fine with losing, and entirely graceful about it.
Joyce, you and I can be friends.
And that’s why I’m an atheist, Joyce.
Though can we at least agree on joining forces for a purge of those infidels who call everything “coke”?
As someone who lists Coca-Cola towards the bottom of their list of liked beverages, it’s a mindset that I certainly can’t understand.
I rarely drink soda but when I do, it would be root beer. Who knew something so tasty came from plant roots?
You know what hasn’t be explained and needs to be? Just what was Roz doing in Chole’s office? The obvious answer is that she was there making her case to be made RA but that doesn’t entirely make sense. Assuming Roz has any common sense, she’d know about the “She who asks for it is least qualified” rule for selecting good leadership figures; Robin’s career has probably rubbed the absolute truth of this into her face more than sufficiently. Chloe would probably write: “Needy, pushy and egoistic” in Roz’s ‘No’ box as a result of such an act.
No… I’m wondering if Roz was there complaining about Mary. It occurs to me that, although Billie may have left her afraid to bully in public, that doesn’t mean that she isn’t continuing to make the room a toxic environment for poor Roz.
Finally, I’m putting my marker down: Billie for RA. Why? Because she was the one who (more or less) held Ruth together. She was the one organised enough to make it seem like Ruth was doing her job. She was the one who neutralised Mary’s increasingly-public toxic bigotry and, now, she correctly identifies someone with good qualities for further responsibility.
Yes, Billie has her own immense problems but the fact is that she has shown the right mindset to handle the RA position. Maybe give her ‘deputies’ to support her with her own emotional problems and let her organisational skills and protective instincts towards her peers do the rest.
Billie is easily the best candidate for RA when she’s on her healthier days.
“She who asks for it is least qualified” what
like
have you ever heard of election campaignsy
have you ever heard of asking for a promotion
…
why would anyone ever pick someone who HADN’T asked for it for a leadership role? like, in real world?
this is the good old ‘bossy and bongoy’ gender trap in your subconscious isn’t it
No, actually it isn’t. I also have the same automatic distrust of professional politicians (male and female alike – yes I noticed your attempt to attempt to erect a gender politics strawman there) for more or less the same reason. I would also, if I were a manager, be very, very cautious of any employee who overtly asked for a promotion because such a request raises uncomfortable questions about motive.
As Billie basically asks: Why would anyone seek power other than for the joy of exercising power over others?
So we should promote people who don’t apply for the position? I assume the same would apply to hiring as well – We only consider candidates who don’t apply.
And elect the politician who is best able to pretend they’re not doing it for their own ambitions. Much like Roz’s early attempt to frame her campaign as “Well a bunch of people on the floor thought I should do it.”
I never ran for any political position. Am I going to be picked as World Dictator? I assume I can’t respond to the announcement with any gladness, or that would disqualify me. Is active resistance the appropriate response, or should I stick with conformed resignation?
Don’t vote for me!
Yes, promotion should be offered to the best-qualified candidate. If they don’t want it if offered then that is their business but, no, I wouldn’t personally fish for those ambitious to have power over others. Nothing good ever comes from giving power to personalities like that.
As for politicians? Well, they’re a problem and, yes, I sort of lean towards the ‘elect the best option from those best qualified in the local community’. Those who apply need not apply as they almost certainly will have ulterior motives.
One of the qualifications is motivation and desire for the job. Someone who doesn’t want the job, who isn’t willing to go through effort and risk rejection by putting cards on the tabel and say ‘yes, I want this’ is probably not the right person at the time.
In politics too. We all complain and whine, and we have things to complain and whine about. The ones who don’t apply? The ones who have all their good intentions and their qualifications, but don’t take the time to step forward and get out there and say ‘hey, I can do this’? They clearly aren’t really into changing the world. Because if you WANT to change the world, and you think you have what it takes, you don’t just sit there and think how you could do it better, you go out there and you reach for that power. Because if you don’t, you clearly don’t care enough to actually try. There is nothing wrong with a thirst for power. To be able to change things for the better? That is power.
by this logic, no one should ever ask for a promotion or apply for a job, it just should be OBVIOUS (somehow) thst they’re the best qualified for said job without saying it out liud. Ambition is evil!
in support of your resolution:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/rubbish/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/broker/
Interesting take on Billie. Good bit on knowing how to manage Mary, and for the side of good.
But how are her grades? Wouldn’t that be a thing they look for in an RA?
(Disclaimer: I have been out of college for mumblemumble years. Sure there are things Willis and forum members know about which have changed since my raccoon coat and Stutz Bearcat.)
Jennifer (*hee*) might get there eventually, but the RA needs to be someone who consciously understands how to help people hold their shit together. Billy just stumbled through Ruth’s crisis by way of blind luck and a bit of inner instinct. Dorothy is already there, at least more so than Billy. So a better choice, using your take on this, would be Dorothy as the actual RA and Billy as one of her assistants.
That, of course, is provided they really do hire a freshman, which Billie correctly points out is an incredibly stupid idea. Realistically, they should be considering an older more experienced student, likely someone who is currently “off camera” as it were.
I have to say, from nearly the beginning of the comic, Billie has shown over and over and over a tendency for taking care of people. She goes out of her way to put down “nerds” and in the beginning appears to hope for a similar dynamic for herself from high school. Yet it seems her innate personality is caregiver. She buys Joyce clothes barely knowing her. She held Ruth in the thick of alcoholism and depression together enough so Ruth could at least manage her RA duties. And when that wasn’t possible, Billie held down the fort.
Billie is haunted by self loathing. Which is typical when a former significant other calls you toxic, especially when it was, for the moment talked about, true. She hates herself, not realizing how important she is to the rest of the freshmen. Every time she goes missing, Walky is the first one to freak out. When Ruth was terrorizing people before they got together, Billie was the only one to stand up to her. (Correct me if I’m wrong). Roz never did that. HELL, when Becky needed a living space, Billie gave it to her AND hid the fact from Ruth (though it appeared Ruth herself had her suspicions)
She, as others said, neutralized a toxic student who had been openly transphobic and homophobic to other trans and queer folks in the dorm.
She vouches for a person who expressed interest in replacing her significant other in her position.
Not to mention her life experiences before college.
And Billie did all this WITHOUT any thought of gain. She did it because it’s her nature. She loves her friends and girlfriend. She takes care of people. She has a wonderful head on her shoulders, though she constantly denies it. Doing the right thing if she’s in a position to do so.
GIVING SPACE TO THOSE WHO NEED IT.
I hope Chloe notes this. I love Dorothy and think she’d be good at being an RA, but Billie is best suited for the position. She may not think she wants it, but she certainly deserves it.
So… Billie gets the RA position, Roz and Dorothy get to be her deputies. Not only did neither of them “win”, they have to share 2nd place as well. Yeees, yees, I see great potential here.
Here’s another thought: Does anyone else agree with Billie’s assessment that Roz is ‘too volatile’ to deal with? If so, in what way is she volatile?
FWIW, I suspect that we’re seeing a bit of Roz’s Shortpacked! persona. Like Robin, she’s extremely bad at boundaries and will do whatever it takes to get what she wants. Unlike Robin, she’s a lot worse at controlling her emotions and tends to be more openly aggressive to the point where she is a bit intimidating and overwhelming. No-one on the floor wants to get in the way of the mind that threw a very popular teacher at school under the bus to try to manipulate her older sister. For most people, nothing is worth that sort of trouble.
I mean… Roz does unexpected shit that can get herself and other people in trouble to the point of nation-wide scandals. I imagine from an RA’s point of view this is exactly the definition of ‘volatile’
Suddenly I’m imagining Roz versus The Great Brain.
To quote Dr. Egon Spengler, “I think that would be extraordinarily dangerous.”
You have a weird way of spelling “fun.”
it’s not like Leslie wasn’t aware that the seduction plan was to out Robin, so Leslie was NOT being manipulated
how is that throwing her under the bus? giving someone an idea is not the same as manipulating their hand
I’m not even aware that the seduction plan was to out Robin, so I’m far from sure Leslie was. I’m still working under the assumption that the seduction plan was to get Robin to change by making her realize she was attracted to women – outing her to herself, if you will, but not publicly.
God confirmed as a bisexual, half-asian alcoholic girl.
…
Eh, has a better chance of me worshipping her than the current version.
There is no soda there is only Zuul.
Okay, no matter how often I try, i can’t make any sense of the sentence in panel 3 in its entirety. Would someone be kind enough to ELI5 it to me?
I’ve no idea what ELI5 means, but here’s how I understand the sentence:
Billie: “I think that freshmen (freshwomen?) are the only ones trying to get the RA position because people know that one of the people they’d be responsible for is Roz. And nobody wants THAT on their plate.”
Aaah, that makes sense, yes. Thanks a lot!
And ELI5 means “Explain like I’m 5”.
Ah, thanks. I supposed I could’ve googled it, but I’m still reeling from a Spider-Man comic where Electro tells Shocker that he should see the entry for his name in the Urban Dictionary.
(note, does not literally mean using 5 year old language, but stripping down jargon and assumptions to present a clear explanation understandable by a layperson)
…I may frequent Reddit…
From now on, we can refer to Billie per “Oh my God!”.
That’s “coke”! COKE! I’ll kill you! I’ll kill all of you!
Especially those of you in the jury!
Here’s how I see it: Pop is the informal way to say it, Soda is the formal way to say it, and Soft Drink is the “official” way to say it.
…
And Code is a brand, or a specific drink by said brand.
That used to annoy me SO MUCH waaay back in the day
“Doctor Spock is the guy on the Star Track Enterprise”
So, god is Canadian?
That was never in doubt.
It’s gotta be “pop” ’cause no one is ever going to call it “Red Soda.”
….and then I remember Faygo isn’t a thing very far outside of Michigan.
Well, around these parts (Norfolk, Virginia), you can find the stuff, it’s just not very well promoted.
God doesn’t say “Pop”.
So hey, who wants to listen to more Podcasting of Age?
Trick question, you -all- want to do that!
Well, guess what, Joyce actually prayed for this to happen too, so here it is: https://skepticalclown.wordpress.com/2017/02/12/podcasting-of-age-episode-5-jason-chesterfield-the-jason-vorhees-of-teachers/
Oh, and I think we didn’t promote Episode 4 properly, so here you go: https://skepticalclown.wordpress.com/2017/02/12/podcasting-of-age-episode-4-dina-atypical-a-plus/
Cerberus and I are really spoiling you today, aren’t we.
THERE ARE TWO EPISODES I HAVEN’T LISTENED TO????
This is all sorts of awesome!!!
Almost as good as Becky, right?
I eagerly await an episode about Becky!
You’re in for a treat! I’ve heard the Dina one a few times and I just heard the Jason one. They’re really good.
Good Lord. “Soda goes the weasel” would just sound stupid.
Only recognizes pop? #notmygod.
I grew up calling it either pop, but I’ve taken to saying soda because I find people understand it better.
Saying soda pop just makes me feel like I’m intentionally being retro or childish.
Where I grew up it was either Soda or Coke. “What sort of soda do you want?” (where the brand couyld create confusion), or “I’m gonna get a Coke, you want one? Whatcha got? We have Root Beer and Mtn Dew.”
Saw the new slipshine ad. You’re REALLY making me wanna subscribe to it.
… yeah. same.
I sold my conscience for a Mr. Pibb.
And that’s why I love the guy.
Panel One: Awww, Billie. I keep forgetting her name is Jennifer. I was about to wonder whether Chloe was boning up on her information about the kids on that floor, but then I remembered she brought Billie to the health centre too.
Panel Two: Not an unrealistic point, Billie. Most freshmen are in no way competent to be an RA. That’s why it’s usually not offered. They need to be knowledgeable about resources on and off campus, be available to help in a crisis, have good day to day social skills, be good listeners and leaders, and it’d be nice for the school if they had a clean disciplinary record and they were a good student with responsibility experience. Thaaaat does not usually apply to freshmen, who have just hit the ground and are feeling around campus.
I also wonder what Roz is doing here – pressing her case, talking to Chloe, or reporting Mary? Requesting a room transfer? Interesting. I will tuck this into my cap.
Panel Three: Again, not an unfair assessment. Roz is known to rebel against things she thinks are bullshit and she rebels hard, under the philosophy that being small and polite gets one nowhere, as people can use that to ignore you or dawdle. Plenty of activists complain about that. And yeah, I’ve seen people who thought they couldn’t be doing harm to people voicing grievances, because if they were, they surely wouldn’t be so polite about it, right?
Roz admitting this surprises me though. Seems like that would shoot herself in the foot. Maybe she IS here to complain about Mary then, see if she can get herself a new roommate, rather than campaign for RA.
Also, Billie, come on, that’s a shitty thing to hold over someone’s head. *spritzes Billie* Bad Billie.
Panel Four: Awwwww! This is so sweet of Billie. She doesn’t want Ruth to go, she doesn’t want Dorothy – heck, she thinks Dorothy’s a nerd. And no, hanging out probably didn’t help much, if at all. Depression just is an ass like that.
But she tried. And that means something to Billie. Even if that something is just ‘okay, maybe she has the skills necessary to do this’.
Panel Five: I like Chloe. She’s hedging her cards and not promising anything, but agreeing to take it into consideration is fair enough. She seems like a reasonable and nice lady.
Panel Six: I’m with God on this one. My area of Canada pretty solidly calls it pop. And this is cute of Joyce, praying to help Dorothy out and Dorothy and her making affectionate jokes. Faith’s not super awkward for them anymore. Although it might be if Dorothy gets the job and Joyce believes fervently it’s because of prayer. Not meaning any harm of course, but making Dorothy feel devalued regardless. They had a gentle clash on that before and I believe this could get worse before it gets better.