I mean, it so transparently tries to justify child molesting as something that the “evil girls” are doing to the “poor teacher” that it straight up references the old man in Lolita, you know, the child molester, as a contemporary hero.
To be fair to Sting, which is not a sentence I often use, ‘Every Breath You Take’ was intended to be a creepy stalker song, people took it the wrong way. Same with The Cardigans’ ‘Lovefool’ and Babybird’s ‘You’re Gorgeous’.
‘Don’t Stand..’ is still vile though, and not alone in pop music of the time, look at The Boomtown Rats’ ‘Mary of the 4th Form’ or Wings’ ‘Girls’ School’ (Double A side to ‘Mull of Kintyre’)
I must say, that song wasn’t big on my list of music I gave a shit about back in the day and I can’t say I ever paid attention to the lyrics of that song…seems I should have.
Have you ever actually read the lyrics? There’s nothing there that says the teacher acted on or took advantage of a schoolgirl’s crush. Looks to me (again according to the lyrics) it’s about a teacher about to be falsely accused.
He has at least directly said that the verse about the car describes a rape, which to me suggests he understood the ethics and power/consent issues of what he was writing.
The chorus, though, which reduces all that to an issue of association? Smack yourself in the bloody head, 29-year-old Sting, hard. You wanna write about themes like that, don’t bloody trivialise them by making the main focus of the song a shallow shitty pop song about someone being embarrassed to be seen with someone they’re pretending is just a crush. Nabokov got that, and you’re no Nabokov by a LONG shot.
Eh, I didn’t interpret it as glorifying pedophilia. I interpreted that song as getting inside the head of a pedo, sure, but making me feel bad for him didn’t make me think he’d be justified in doing anything, it just made me sad that people are tormented by their own sick mind. Maybe I’m just projecting because I’ve dealt with a lot of mental health issues (depression and anxiety), a lot of (in my case, logically unwarranted but just as emotionally real) issues of guilt/shame over things that I can’t even control… it resonates with me. I understand what it’s like to feel ‘broken’, to try so hard to do the right thing (in my case, blaming myself for my own lack of capability, but in his case desperately trying to talk himself out of acting on his urges) but being unable to change the fact that your brain is undermining you at every turn.
The teacher he’s singing about is *sick*. He has a desire to commit a socially and morally unacceptable act that he’s struggling to suppress throughout the entirety of the song, but he can’t chose not to feel that desire, just to control it. It’s not like the girl knows what’s going on in his head, or is culpable for his actions in any way – his perception of her is increasingly warped, and he’s struggling hard to be a good person despite his feelings.
Sting wrote a lot of songs that put you inside the head of a creepy person. It’s uncomfortable to have to empathize with and understand people who have immoral thoughts and act in immoral ways, but being put in their shoes isn’t the same thing as glorifying or excusing them. They’re creepy not because they’re ‘evil’, they’re creepy because they’re mentally ill. Not the song about the prostitute for all I know, I’ve never listened to it, but for the other ones the narrator is obviously disturbed. I’m deeply uncomfortable with the idea that people can’t be empathized with for things about themselves they can’t change, even if all you can do is pity them while treating them the same.
Lots of lyrics Sting wrote for the Police are creepy as hell. Give “Every Breath You Take” or “Can’t Stand Losing” a listen. It makes you wonder how creepy he is/was in real life.
Yeah, I mean my dad claims that when he was a starving grad student he lived off of nothing but candy bars for like two weeks. Also pretty sure my brother ate like that on purpose when he first started college.
I had this happen to me in real life. My college boyfriend sat behind me in the one class we had together first semester freshman year, and in the third or fourth week of classes I had finally gotten my contacts I had forgotten at home and wore them to class, and he stopped me after class to comment on the fact that I wasn’t wearing my glasses.
It was David Willis. He was taking reference pictures of the bar to use as a background in a future strip, and happened to catch the two of them in one of his shots. It gave him an idea for a storyline and now I’ve gone cross-eyed from too much meta.
I wouldn’t count on any random group of college students including anyone who has an interest in politics. A lot of kids are pretty politically apathetic, as seen by their voting numbers.(Of course there have been efforts to make it harder for young people like university students to vote in some places, further keeping the numbers down.) Even if there were some with a political interest in the bar that night they may not have recognised her unless she’s their Congresswoman.
Yup, that’s the reason voting numbers are down. If you’ve ever voted on a campus, you’ve dealt with the 4 hour line for one half-working machine problem before. And that’s often on purpose as college towns tend to be more liberal-minded.
Beyond that, I can say from my experience mentoring college groups, that college kids are some of the most plugged in politics-minded folks you’ll ever meet.
I think I recall hearing this past election that at least one conservative politician was caught commenting that he either cut down polling places on purpose or didn’t mind them getting cut by a college, because the kids there voted liberal anyway.
is glad to live in a country where voting is a duty rather than a right, meaning that the system is set up to make it as easy as possible for everyone of age to vote. (seeing as how you get fined if you don’t go out and vote)
As such, no politician would get any advantage out of trying to make it harder for people to vote, and people can actually trust voting machines, because we have way too many parties, all of which with a chance to get at least some seats in the government, to try and mess with any of the results.
Belgium. Our every single government is made up out of a coalition of at least two to three parties, if not more. (admittedly, we also once spent a year without a government because they couldn’t manage to build a coalition, but still, it works, somehow.
My personal experience suggests (if only anecdotally) that the college kids are the most prone within their age demographic to be politically interested and/or active. The problem is they often don’t have the working systemic knowledge to know where to register (at home or where they attend school) and and how to utilize absentee programs when needed. Then you add on the fact that most students are only voting once during their undergrad college career, it’s most oft their first time voting and like most people they don’t stop and think about whether their registration is current until a presidential election year (typically in September or October when a student who needs to be registered at home may well be shit out of luck because they need to register in person in most states even if they need not vote in person). Then you add in all the time management issues the youngest end of that range typically have juggling classes, papers and studying, possibly work, extracurriculars and hobbies, etc then add in meeting the deadlines for registration and either absentee voting or else finding the time to get to and know where there polling place is (potentially while not knowing the nearby area off campus all that well yet).
Oh, and for the record the voter turnout rate in the 18 to 29 demographic typically hovers between 40% and 50%, for whatever reason it was lower during the bulk of the ’80s and ’90s, and their voter registration rates hover mainly around the 55% to 60% range.
That aside, the only people in Robin’s district who don’t know her on sight are not watching TV and/or ad supported videos on the internet. Both get flooded with political ads most of which have pictures or video of one or more candidates for the relevant office in them, with the internet ads targeted by region to the IP address of the viewer.
Tbf, Robin, first she’d have to be monetarily compensated for doing so. Unless someone slid a check under the door, that’s a hurdle we haven’t passed yet.
Robin: “AHA! Let’s see how many pieces of silver this little scheme got you!…Coupons? Betrayal doesn’t pay as well as it used to. Can I keep the one for Dunkin Donuts?”
Yeah, as 30-something woman working in academia, there’s no way she was tenured. The only people with tenure these days are aging baby boomers. **seethes with bitterness** Most college Admins actively hate tenure and are trying to do away with it – and mostly succeeding.
Not to say you aren’t correct from a narrative stand point since, as you noted, that had a very Chekov’s Gun vibe to it. Just sayin’ there was no way in hell she had tenure.
Agreed. I don’t think Leslie will get fired, but I think she’s gonna sweat bullets about it. I’d like Roz to realize this could’ve cost her favourite teacher’s livelihood, get some ice-water thrown on her callousness.
Or at least the feeling of colder hands and feet due to blood circulation is directly effected by having an elevated estrogen level or not. More estrogen in fluctation can cause an effect where it feels like extremities are losing body temperature more easily, thus necessitating keeping hands in warm places or wearing socks.
Lower estrogenated, more testosteronated systems in general can also have different pools of heat retention, producing an overall effect where it’s easier to feel sweaty and overheated for similar reasons.
It’s one of the cool free-with-purchase add-ons you happen to discover undergoing HRT.
This is interesting, because I’m a guy and I swear my arms are spaceship level radiators and have them open to the wind, while my feet get cold on the floor in winter; but I also do have the wonky heat retention things.
Of course, this is all my own guess based on my own observation, I’m not going to self-medicate myself on that alone, but it’s just a thought to add. I really need to bloody see a doc soon aboot it all.
Or in english, the variation among folks with dominant testosterone versus those with dominant estrogen levels greatly outnumbers the variation between testosteronated and estrogenated systems.
As such, it’s mostly noticeable among folks who start HRT or experience hormone fluctuations or imbalances as they have a solid baseline to compare to.
But yeah, before I started testosterone I was always cold. As in bizarrely so, looking back. The only times I didn’t wear long sleeves and trousers was heat waves. I was definitely a socks-in-bed person. Now I wouldn’t say I’ve gone to the opposite extreme, but I spend a lot of my time feeling rather warm, I’m scarcely bothered by the cold now, and I get warm VERY easily from physical activity. Socks in bed would only happen when I’m very cold, such as if the heating is broken in winter or if I’m ill.
It’s a fascinating thing.
I can’t sleep without socks unless the room is very warm, and last time I checked I was XY. But then again I have some history with conditions that have a negative effect on temperature tolerance. Besides the wreck and associated circulatory damage to my leg, I got frostbite delivering newspapers during a FROPA and about a 40°F temperature drop that led to wet socks freezing to my ankles. Yay! fun.
Is there something wrong that ? look some people sleep in the nude, others can’t get rest without cuddling something, and people (like me) sleep with their socks on.
I find sleeping with socks on causes mildly painful hair things to happen, kinda like what happens if I don’t keep my beard combed. Plus vague worries about circulation.
Sure Robin, you’re not in any closets, that’s why a pretty lady was able to work her wicked charms on you.
Doesn’t the ‘vile temptress’ angle only work if Robin is already temptable?
Not in the minds of those who really believe in the whole lesbian temptress thing. Remember, to them, gay people go around tricking people into doing gay sex
No one is actually gay. People just choose to be gay in order to seduce impressionable young folks into abandoning God and joining Satan. And bi people are either secret homos trying to hide among the “good folk” or noble ex-gays fighting the good fight. And trans people are just what happens when you gay too hard and hit maximum gay.
I wish this was not literally the world-view on this shit.
…see, this is a real Poe’s Law subject when it comes to me.
It just sounds so fucking absurd. That gay people are flippin’ sorcerers that have mystical powers to make you want the D (or, in this case, V). At least the phrase “Lifestyle Choice” at least has the veneer of “not getting it because they haven’t lived it” that makes it an understandable* error.
And yet… yeah, I can see the willfully ignorant clinging to that notion when they get the “Stupid Sexy Flanders” thoughts: They’re thinking “There’s nothing with me, it’s the gay people that are making me do this!”, that way they’re the victims…
…but it’s still just so… laughably stupid that it’s hard to actually believe that people think that.
*: Understandable =/= Acceptable. Just meaning that I can see where they get their views, not that I find them okay in any way, shape or form.
Bigot logic is weird sometimes. See the bizarre twists people make to somehow argue that trans or ace people are actually super powerful oppressors or superhuman demonic rapists.
On the sorcerer thing, I’ve told you all the story of how my dad actually thought my ex was an evil sorceress who brainwashed me trans in order to slake her bisexual lust, right?
Damn those evil bisexual sorcerers! They already get both the V and the D, now they want people to change genders despite being attracted to both?! What vile depths will they sink to next?!
(to quote one of my favorite exchanges from William Shakespeare:
Marcus Andronicus. Why dost thou laugh? it fits not with this hour.
Titus Andronicus. Why, I have not another tear to shed)
Elusive bisexual can confirm. We are wizards of hedonism, and our lust cannot be slaked. Trans people, particularly mtf, are the ultimate delicacy. We must either turn everyone bisexual or trans; only then can we be fulfilled.
“I’m a Good Person (obviously), so where are these intrusive thoughts coming from? It can’t be that I have such evil inside me; it must be… *gasp* Satan!”
(no, that’s just how the brain works, but these people live and believe in a world where magic is real, so.)
“And trans people are just what happens when you gay too hard and hit maximum gay.”
Serious topic but that sentence made me chortle.
But yeah, I vividly remember when the possibility of people being trans came into my awareness, there was a transwoman on one of my mother’s shows. When I asked about her she said that transpeople are “gay men who pretend to be women to have sex with other men.”
Needless to say, that made me realising that I needed to transition to be happy somewhat harder…
*Hugs accepted and returned.*
I remember sending Willis a message a while ago thanking him for Carla, and how she avoided being presented as either “basically a man in a skirt” or hyperfeminine, as transwomen so often fall into one or the other in media. His reaction was basically relief at finding out about an awful thing by way of discovering he’d avoided it.
I have a pair of friends (m/f couple) who first introduced me to the concept of gender dysphoria back as a teen. (He identifies as female but lives as male, and treats his female identity as an “alter ego” to cope- it’s complicated to talk about, especially as I don’t want to be seen as disrespectful by using male pronouns.) Anyway, they sent me a link to a documentary about these two transman teens in a relationship, and then after I watched it I was chatting with the girlfriend. She said that they had come to the conclusion that one of them “didn’t really identify as male” because he had been happy about getting Barbie as a kid and still liked to do things like face masks. I had to point out that they’d be fine with a cis gay guy liking those things, and the “oh, I never thought of it like that” made me facepalm so hard.
The toxic stereotypes being reinforced from within the LGBT+ community as well as outside of it makes me sad.
Jean Claude Van Damme and Jackie Chan. Jackie Chan is the sinister “Maximum Straight” and he’s trying to preserve his marriage by destroying all others.
No, that’s a common Republican thing, not unique to Frieda. Even if Robin doesn’t have that thought process naturally, she’d have long since picked it up from the rest of the party.
Not confirmed! She didn’t think of doing that until she woke up in bed next to robin, and she promptly deleted the photo instead.
Leslie’s hesitation in this strip is “I would never get my hair did and wear a sexy unbuttoned shirt for you– oh wait I totally did that. I wouldn’t out you though!”
I really hope Roz arranged it. People are going to give her crap just for being happy Robin embarrassed herself. Why not actually do it? At least there’s something (arguably) to be ashamed of there. I say arguably because it’s her sister, not that exposing monstrous hypocrisy is wrong. Said as the straight white cis dude in his ignorance.
You can’t just go by her words. Actions matter. And what were Roz’s actions? She set up Leslie and Robin. There is no way that sort of thing works unless Leslie is involved in the outing.
I mean, it’s not as if Leslie and Robin were going to hit it off, possibly have sex, and then Robin would suddenly come out to the world of her own volition. And Roz isn’t naive enough to think that would happen. She knows Robin wears masks and will hide who she is to win.
The only way Robin “outs herself” with Leslie is that she gets caught doing something stupid. And that’s exactly what happened. And, of course Leslie would also be involved in that.
She’s the lesbian who seduced this poor, straight politician. Even if she’s not right there when it happens, there’s no way Robin’s campaign doesn’t go after her.
Now, I fully believe that Roz didn’t consider how that would affect Leslie. She isn’t a monster. And I don’t think Robin was lying when she said Roz liked Leslie (even if she may not quite be her absolute favorite teacher–a little embellishment for flattery’s sake is not unheard of).
But what she said there was just an excuse, in response to someone calling her on being a jerk.
Hence why she attacked back, doing more psychological warfare on Dorothy. Now she’s trying to manipulate her into intentionally making mistakes, which Roz then use against her.
By “outing herself”, Roz certainly meant she hoped Robin would realize she wasn’t straight and come out voluntarily.
But as you say, what Roz has actually done is what matters. And she had no part in outing Robin at all. All she has done is try to play matchmaker. How is that alone something malicious? Leslie is an adult who knows damn well who Robin is and what could have happened.
Roz didn’t even set them up. They hung out together of their own accord. Sure, the fact that they met in the first place is because Robin was visiting her “kid” sister and met the teacher, and was later invited to speak to the class to give Leslie an opportunity to hook up with her, but they also met up with each other on their own terms. Leslie, by going to Robin’s rally, and Robin, by meeting Leslie after class hours and asking her to drinks. Neither of which Roz was involved with. And especially what happened next? Roz had jack-diddly-squat to do with that either.
All she did was provide them the means to meet each other. That’s it.
Gloating about her sister being outed was enough to rub most people the wrong way.
There’s a difference between feeling something and actually rubbing this feeling in other people’s faces.
Thatcher’s death is a good example of that, actually. Feeling happy about her death? Not the nicest thing, but hey, I can kinda understand the sentiment, considering all the shit she pulled. Outright celebrating her death in the street, especially many years after she stopped being a threat. Dick move.
So in this case: It’s good that hypocrisy got revealed – but revelling in it like Roz does… yeah.
I knew a gay guy who lost two boyfriends to the AIDS crisis who cheered like nothing else when the ol’ Gipper died. Sometimes someone is responsible for monstrous violences against you and your kin and it’s not nice. It’s not kind. It’s certainly not respectable, but you just feel you need to celebrate that someone who took loved ones from you and went on to live a long and healthy life with no consequences as if your loved ones never mattered is no longer around.
Cause with old bigots, them finally kicking off after long and successful lives battling every second against the rights of others for no valid reason other than their own pettiness and hate, it’s the only respite the oppressed ever get to see.
I am totally 100% fine with your friend cheering for Gipper’s death.
Robin isn’t really oppressing Roz (though she does actively help oppress people Roz cares about). Loudly gloating about Robin’s demise was in poor taste. It’s surely not the worst thing Roz will ever do, but it’s rude.
Robin IS trying to restrict sexuality and, considering her platform, probably birth control and abortion, both of which oppress Roz. She also drags her around, keeps tabs on her during events, and forces her to keep her mouth shut about her politics and her opposition to Robin’s for the sake of Robin’s own political gain, which is supremely fucked up if not abusive.
Robin’s shitty to Roz. I don’t blame her for not crying for her sister.
Personally, I think you have that backwards:
Robin is oppressing the person Roz cares about, that is, Roz, and also a bunch of other folks whose cause it is therefore convenient for Roz to support. Because doing so ultimately benefits Roz.
Cerberus, that still sounds like a genuine expression of raw emotion, and not what Roz did. She went out, got dressed up, and started handing out flyers to everyone. She’s not just “cheering.” She is deliberately rubbing people’s face in what happened. Hell, she’s gloating, since she knows she had something to do with it.
What your friend did sounds like a perfectly normal reaction, and I do not begrudge him in the slightest. I personally would hope that, after that time of catharsis, he also thought of the people who would be hurt by his passing.
I say that because I try to do that myself. I even did it when Osama bin Laden was killed. I honestly think it’s important to take some time to feel sad about even the most deserved deaths. It keeps us human, and not full of hate.
I’d like you to go back and try to find the comic where Roz handed out flyers.
She didn’t. She showed a couple people the story on her phone. She also didn’t get dressed up for that, but because she’s “dressing for the job she wants”.
She’s gloating, yes, and it’s not super empathetic, but you are reaching for ways to villainize her further
I personally strongly disagree on your Thatcher comparison.
Firstly, celebrating the demise or the end of the career of someone who has caused harm is totally fine, in my opinion. It may not be “nice”, but we’re people, and we don’t have to be completely nice all of the time- although that’s a “luxury” that is seldom offered to people who aren’t straight cis white guys. But celebrating the ruination of a harmful person’s career or the death of the same is not the same as celebrating their pain, suffering, harassment, etc. THAT would be, in my opinion, “wrong”- the eye for an eye mentality doesn’t help and celebrating suffering is not a positive thing. But a loss of a life or career used to subjugate and cause suffering, I have no issue with people celebrating. It’s a natural emotional reaction which, like all emotions, should be understood and allowed to run its course without taking over.
However, with Thatcher specifically, I feel even more strongly that being negative towards people for celebrating her death is unhelpful. I assume that you’re British, to bring up the comparison; and perhaps it’s my age, but I’ve never felt that people talked or felt as though Thatcher was a person. Obviously she was, but what I mean is when they talked about “Thatcher”, what they were talking about was (generally) not that personhood but more a summation of her impact. So when she died, I feel as though much of the celebration was more celebrating the loss of the figurehead of her impact, rather than the actual death of a person. Perhaps that’s just me, and perhaps my experience and feelings are atypical- and as I said, perhaps it’s due to my age, as she left office when I was too young to have any idea what her impact on the country actually was.
That’s a really good point about how marginalized groups are frequently denied their right to feel angry and petty about their abusers and oppressors. We’re supposed to be good people all the time, but we’re people and well, when this stuff matters, it might not be “helpful” or “kind”, but it can be cathartic as all fuck.
Especially when it occurs in a society where people celebrate your suffering and encourage your suffering all the time for no other reason than how you were born.
It’s really hard to be “that perfect girl” all the time as Carla put it.
So how long before Leslie points out that sneaking into the apartment of and spending the night with another woman might not be the best way to allay accusations of lesbianism.
Phone covers exist. I find that the Otterbox withstands any abuse I subject it to; throwing it across two rooms is nothing, let alone a gentle toss over the shoulder.
Carpet or a couch make a great landing pad, though.
Very much this. If I hadn’t invested in an Otterbox when I bought my phone I’d have had to buy a new phone a few times over by now. The most significant though were a five foot drop onto a concrete floor with not even a scratch and getting full immersed in water which didn’t even get through the cover to the phone itself by the time I fished it out.
I’d never heard of Otterbox, I’ll have to look into them! But I use a protective case from Redbubble, which is fantastic quality and there’s some great artists on there. I can be pretty clumsy and my phone has been completely fine in its case.
Oh, hell this! I’m always dropping things that are about the size and weight of a cell phone, so when I first got one, first question i asked myself was, “Ok, these things BREAK. How will I prevent that? What’s the best protection i can get for this thing?” Everyone and everything I read said ‘OtterBox’, so I got one, and I’ve never regretted it. I’ve done what Leslie is doing with my phone – just casually tossed it over my shoulder. I’ve thrown it to the floor, stomped on it, abused the heck out of it, and my phone has survived unscathed. These things take a licking, so your phone doesn’t!
Heh I think you’re right that Leslie has an apartment with more than one room, but I had naturally imagined that Leslie’s kitchen was pretty much at the foot of her bed. You folks-who-don’t-live-in-excessively-expensive-cities sure are fancy.
Hmm, the alt-text is an excellent choice. Also now that I think if it, the picture is angled such that whoever took it would have to have been behind and slightly to the left of Robin and Leslie. And they were at the edge of the bar counter. It would seem to me that one of the bartenders would have had the best chance of getting that angle, so I’d say one of them did just what Robin is suggesting.
Yes, Robin, blame Leslie for the fact that you nearly kissed another woman in a public bar where there were lots of other people around who easily could have recognized you.
Also, thanks alt text, now I have that song stuck in my head.
Robin is so deep in the closet that she’s in denial and lashing at the only person she can because she’s freaking scared. She’s grasping at straws and not being logical at all right now. It doesn’t excuse her actions, but it does explain them.
Being outed – especially when you aren’t even really out to yourself yet – is a traumatic experience. I can excuse outing done to politicians who actively hurt the community because their actions hurt so many people, but to no one else. My heart still breaks here even knowing she has hurt those in LGBTQ+ because of the pain and aftermath such a thing causes. At least Robin will have a support system.
Panel One: Aw, Leslie, you think the gossip rag news cares? Honey, BABY, you should know better by now. I can’t blame her for panicking over this. It could easily get her kicked out of her apartment.
Panel Two: Oh, fuck you, Robin. A) Her clothes were done up when you went to the bar. B) YOU INVITED HER TO THE BAR. C) She was LEAVING. YOU called her back. Jesus, LORD, Robin is irritating right now. I get she’s scared, and that she’s obviously going to say things that didn’t happen when she’s scared, but I get the feeling she’s not much for taking responsibility anyways.
“You noticed my hair” – Leslie, don’t be adorable.
Panel Three: I like how Leslie immediately tries to defend herself on that one. This is definitely a strong moral line for her, one she’s decided she will not cross.
Panel Four: Nice last minute word swap. Because, yeah, if she had done so, it clearly would not be something she wanted to do, but a last resort. And I like her tossing her phone away carelessly – being reminded of her original plan this morning was enough to make her throw that phone away even though the photo seems to have been deleted. Unless she just deleted a social media post draft or something and not a picture.
And yeah, Robin is still in denial, very badly. Either that or just doesn’t get herself yet. As far as she knows, this is a malicious lie. And yet, she’s clearly very attracted to Leslie.
Panel Five: Leslie seems nervous about that fact. As though she’d rather not be super close to the hot congresswoman who’s politics she cannot stand. And that seems to have snapped Robin out of her anger – she doesn’t like having her attraction to Leslie pointed out, yet she keeps doing things that seem like she is attracted to her.
Panel Six: Oof. Yeah. What is money? This could be a problem if I’m wrong and Leslie gets fired. And honestly, tenure is disappearing quickly. And of course, Robin’s suggestion is both passive aggressive and yet something I can see Robin doing. And yeah, sadly, it’d probably pay better. And no, Robin, some folks can’t just ‘get a bigger kitchen’ and not by their own choice.
Panel 2: I suspect that if they had banged all night, Robin would still blame Leslie for it.
She really wants her queerness to be the result of secret homo mind-rays than have to admit that the group she’s been fighting so hard against for votes includes herself.
Panel 5: The morals are strong but the libido is resting in the corner for a come-back.
I fear Leslie only has so many bouts in her before Libido wins. Like, morals has to win every time. Libido just needs to win once to push her over to a place she really does but really doesn’t want to go.
Judging what just happened over at Sandra and Woo I’d re-ponder including the angels and devil. Thanks to them Sandra almost got killed and Larissa sold her soul to the devil to prevent it (although she was given a place as a succubus and on Hells board of directors when she dies)
That last line raises the question: If Robin thinks Leslie’s primary intention was to get politically damaging photos, why did Robin climb into Leslie’s bed and go to sleep? And how did Roz learn any savvy political tactics from this woman?
Panel 1: Leslie is in distress. And for multiple reasons.
One, her job and housing could be in jeopardy. Two, she was desperately trying to avoid a situation like this and thought she did very well to break off every time and prevent a mistake they couldn’t come back from and so is disappointed that she’s getting all the fallout and none of the fun.
Three, well, here’s the thing. Leslie just got photographed “macking” on the homophobic politician. That is going to be murder on her reputation in the queer community. She’s been working hard to try to be a resource young queer folks can come to, but if she’s seen as the secret girlfriend of a bigot, that’s all gonna be thrown in the trash and she’s gonna become “untrustworthy” over night.
And that’s before considering the local community she is still likely connected to. Friends who survived the streets with her. You think any of them are gonna be happy Leslie was photographed “swapping spit with the homophobe” as is implied in the article? After she tried to pass legislation to make it more likely for them and their friends to die?
Leslie’s not only at risk. She may have just lost her entire community as well and it’s gonna be harder still to claim its a misunderstanding when paparazzi start stalking outside the apartment this morning because of this hoping to get a shot of Robin leaving.
Panel 2: Robin is deathly allergic to personal responsibility.
Like, for everyone yelling at Roz yesterday as if she personally took the shot, no one yet is more responsible for the outcome here than Robin. Like even Leslie has been trying and trying to set boundaries and keep things from coming closer, but every time Robin’s tried to escalate into something happening or going to a less secure location.
Following up after class, pushing through her attempted cold shoulder, inviting out to a bar, pushing hard on Leslie to open up, and even asking her what messing up would look like when Leslie tried to leave.
Like the most credit/blame for this goes to the person at the bar taking the picture, but Robin couldn’t have made it easier for the paparazzi to spin this story if she was to follow Roz’s earlier plan of dragging girls on stage to kiss her: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/out/
And this is the ugly side of that, victim-blaming to the point where she’s straight up making accusations to the way she was dressed as if that was to blame for all the boundary pushes Robin has made along the way to make this happen.
And poor Leslie, she’s been trying to be strong all day, but she’s in just a t-shirt in her bedroom with a congresswoman she has the hots for even though she hates herself for having the hots for her and now Robin’s making very focused comments on noticing her outfits and hair and calling her super cute.
Like, she really doesn’t want to mess up beyond the point of no return and that’s why she’s been setting these boundaries, but I fear Robin’s going to bundle right over until they actually sleep together and then blame Leslie for corrupting her with gay powers*.
And that last part is also at the core of her accusation. The people Robin considers her base literally do believe that gay people are fakers who just emit sexiness rays to convert innocent straight-people into “deviant” “lifestyles”. Robin’s accusation cuts far deeper than just regular victim-blaming for attraction.
The “gay powers” thing would be kinda funny if it wasn’t something her constituents would also easily believe.
I only found out it wasn’t true when a gay guy sorta asked me out–in the form of getting some girls to ask for him. Not exactly some super suave seduction going on there.
Though, now that I think about it, I wonder if they were just trying to set us up. Or wondering if I was gay. They never actually told me the guy’s name or anything.
Maybe they’ll think that, but the picture still shows them hand-holding and in an intimate moment with intense blushes. And we’ve seen Leslie doesn’t react well or subtly to being called out on her crush, mostly just going into panic mode.
And there’s gonna be folks who are pissed simply that Leslie was close enough and familiar enough with Robin to be photographed like this regardless of whether or not they believe they banged or not. Because to them, that’s gonna feel like a betrayal worthy of anger already.
Yeah. The victim blaming is UGLY. Believable, sadly, but ugly.
I really, really wish they could end this on a high note. “Ooopos, we got in a sticky situation together, let’s figure out to help each other out.” But sadly, that’s not how it goes.
Panel 3: And that’s the accusation that Leslie starts to respond to. That she intended to seduce her simply to out her. That she is the beast her parents regard her as, something to just turn good god-fearing Christians into devil-worshipping sinners.
It’s the accusation Carol made directly about Becky with regards to Joyce.
And that’s a nasty accusation that Leslie has no time for.
Panel 4: But I love that in all things, Leslie has a strong moral core that she returns to. She wants to be honest where possible, it’s why she came out to her students so they could take her facts about queer issues with that in perspective. She wants to remain firm about why she understands a relationship with Robin would be disastrous.
And here, she is stopped in denying a monstrous accusation because she recognizes what actions she was very nearly willing to take and is reminded of them even if they are nowhere near equivalent. Hence the very specific denial.
Also, yes, Robin, you are the very epitome of straightness what with describing how the super cute teacher with a low-cut shirt was driving you forward even hours later into repeatedly trying to get into her pants.
That’s just the behavior of the galiest of gals being the paliest of pals.
Panel 5: Leslie trying to set another boundary, what’s the over-under on how long it’ll take Robin to shove her way past this one too?
Panel 6: A conservative congressperson who doesn’t understand that poor people can’t just will themselves more money with the magic of bootstraps? Say it ain’t so.
Also, is that an accusation Robin, or an invitation…?
And yeah, that lack of tenure could definitely rear its ugly head again this arc. I don’t think Leslie will get fired, but I can definitely see the Dean putting some pressure on her for “unwanted attention” and “political controversy”.
I think that it’s entirely in-character for Robin to not realise that it is she making Leslie hot and bothered rather than Leslie setting out to seduce her. Based on the crush, it’s quite justifiable to take the new look as actually being a signal that she’s receptive to Robin’s advances rather than attempting to attract Robin.
Leslie is a very, very moral person and I’m extremely proud of her. She has had her low points in this story, but in the end of the day – none of this mess is her fault, and she has done what she can to minimize damage.
She is truly worthy of Dorothy’s trust, and that’s something.
Yeah, there are problem brewing in the future. As for ol’ Dean himself I don’t think he has ANY illusions of Robin’s ability to cause trouble all in herself, and in combination with Roz there is NO reason he should have to suspect Leslie of any wrongdoings in any unfolding shenanigans.
But she DOES make for a convenient scapegoat (or, as Carla would put it, an acceptable loss), and THAT is a very real risk for Leslie’s future career.
I think that Robin needs to work out at some point that, irrespective of what she may or may not think or feel, her close presence is certainly doing something for Leslie!
OK I’ve never read the other version(s?) of Robin… but is she really this dumb?
She finds out there are people following her getting incriminating photos of her with another woman… and the first thing she does is drive to the woman’s house, break in, and fall asleep in the same bed with her?
Robin’s not dumb, exactly. She’s impulsive as all hell, kind of self-centered (maybe delete the “kind of” for this version), and prone to grandiose gestures.
Combined, these traits result in a tendency towards over-the-top shenanigans that she hasn’t thought through, and especially hasn’t thought through how other people will feel about them, and that frequently result in her screwing up epically.
And then once she figures out that she’s screwed up, she has a tendency to try to fix things, often without understanding what the actual problem is – because she thought it was cool, so why is everyone mad at her? Was it something she said? – with even more over-the-top and equally ill-thought-out gestures. Sometimes that’s endearing. Sometimes it just makes things worse.
I suspect that Robin’s planning of this little breaking and entering expedition never got past “Step 2: ???”.
she’s super convinced robin is gay. from the first moment she hung out with her. it’s a bit weird. i mean, even if it’s realistic, she just straight-out didn’t believe she was straight when she first said it, giving a slightly condescending smile.
it just annoys me how leslie just presumes her gay from the first moment, with that kind of condescension.
Given the way Robin acts, believing she is straight needs about as much Belief as beliving in immaculate conception.
And first of all, Leslie didn’t. She was attracted from the start and that is not a function of the other person’s orientation.
Might have something to do with Roz setting them up, even to point of suggesting more cleavage. It’s reasonable for Leslie to think that Robin’s sister might have some inside knowledge.
And of course, she’s right. Everything Robin’s done suggests she’s attracted, but in deep denial.
Robin respects Leslie’s opinion and is trying with her to be on her “best behavior” because of her attraction.
Roz gets the uncensored version that treats her life and everything that is important to her and everything she says as meaningless fluff easily set aside for the campaign.
Like, it’s no surprise that Roz would be thrilled at finally getting her freedom from all that bullshit.
Seriously? I’ll admit to not reading the comments thoroughly or regularly, but people actually make that complaint?
Urgh. That disgusts me. Sharing a genetic code with someone does NOT buy them your loyalty. If someone is toxic and bad for your wellbeing you have every right to do what you need to to look after yourself.
Not that I approve of Roz’s reaction. It doesn’t feel like “hooray, we can make things better” to me. It felt somewhat vindictive, to be honest- although that’s just a gut reaction and I will wait to see what’s in store before settling my opinion.
Yeah, I get other people have different experiences with family and what not, but as someone who actually had my shitty uncle and dad try to call me a blood traitor who was destroying the family for refusing to agree to reparative therapy, I felt it best to try and side-step that conversation entirely less I got worked up.
Pretty shitty family here too, although without one horrific thing to point at. I feel kind of the opposite, I feel that I need to say something or it’ll eat at me. Some people honestly can’t think outside of their own family experience where loyalty is so important. If I can open one mind to consider that different people have radically different experiences to their own that’s worth it.
But really, screw that mentality. I have had people get frowny for cutting out the people who gave me PTSD, because “honour thy parents” or similar bollocks. It’s my life, it’s my wellbeing. *hug of understanding*
As I said, I’ll wait to see how things unfold. But there’s a difference between “you can’t hurt me any more” and “you deserve to be hurt”. One is worthy of celebrating, the other is a vicious circle.
Not that it makes Roz a bad person if she is celebrating or uncaring of the latter. None of us are “perfect” and have wholesome feelings at all times (unless we’re masters of suppression, which is more unhealthy.) If Roz feels vindictive then that’s how she feels and that’s valid- however, I’m also going to raise an eyebrow if she lets that drive her. (Lotta ifs in there.)
Robin has lived inside this impenetrable comfy bubble forever, where nothing penetrates for long and she can focus all her energies on her fantasy of being a heroic Congressman, without thinking too deeply about what she stands for and whether she’s really making things better.
Leslie has a different problem – she appreciates how complicated life can be a little too well. She’s searching for the perfect answer, wanting complete honesty, proper discretion and personal satisfaction. She wants to diffuse every tense situation and get her points across. Her hopeful intentions get crushed under that weight initially, and even when she musters up the decisiveness to do something, it’s instinctively to shut the source of her pain down and find a reason to justify the means.
It’s one of the reasons on a base level Robin and Leslie balance each other out nicely, even if they’re rather toxic to each other at this point thanks to the very different lives they’ve lived and worldviews they’ve developed.
To be fair I don’t think Leslie has asked her to leave yet?
The entrance horrified her, but I don’t think she’s done with the current conversation/events yet.
One of the things really I like about (this universe) Leslie is that she is/has been strong enough to put her foot down in a direct manner. I trust her ability to do so if she gets tired of this.
It looks like, to me, that Leslie is on the back foot, is not being given time to think, is being pressured and so doesn’t have time to think of the right response which would be something like: “Get the fuck out of my house you intrusive garbage monster”
Its interesting to note that a successful seduction (or sale) usually involves the same techniques, keeping the target on the back foot, not given them time to think etc etc
Y’know Robin, for someone with no same-sex attraction you sure noticed an awful lot about Leslie’s couture. And her hair. And her… neckline.
“Get a bigger kitchen.” Geez, Robin, you think people can just wish money into existence? Mentioning she is not tenured suggests Leslie will end up in the Dean’s office. In addition to making very little money, adjunct professors walk on thin ice.
Actually, I think that Robin, creating her own internal reality on the fly as she always does, is now accusing Leslie of setting up the whole incident to bulk out her inadequate salary.
From what I’ve seen, it’s a typical accusation by republicans that poor people are poor because they want to and they should just pull themselves up by the bootstraps and be rich instead.
AND Leslie got herself a small kitchen just to spite Robin.
…and I also think Robin’s mouth is set on autopilot while her brain is busy grasping the situation and trying to balance:
– freaking out over her political situation
– freaking out about the fact that she is attracted to a lady
– preventing herself from asking Leslie to follow her back to the bed for some more… embarrassment
– being mortified with the thought of what Leslie might think of her
– being hurt about Leslie potentially setting her up, or at least possibly betraying her
– being annoyed about Roz being right about something
– shying away from the implications of the “sweet lesbian facts” Leslie told her yesterday and her own guilt in the discrimination people JUST LIKE THIS cute blond she is attracted to are facing.
– Kinda wanting to watch some Steven Universe, but being unsure what would be the best episode to start with
…while hung over.
You know… With her hair down, seen from the back, Robin looks a lot like Roz. There’s a potential worse case scenario here where Robin’s campaign spins the photo as Leslie seducing one of her students.
It says a lot about someones art/narrative style when similar-looking characters cause little confusion in the audience, instead leading to complex plot predictions based on that similarity.
Gecko isn’t the only one thinking like this.
Congrats Willis, you have come far from the days of Dorothy and Amber confusion.
(And your observation has the potential to be correct G, sorry to talk about you rather than to you.)
Personally I find that when someone is angry at me, it’s generally better not to casually toss their phones away like an empty glass of champagne at a Russian banquet.
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“or, like, take out some cabinets idk, do you even NEED a sink when there’s one in the bathroom???”
Young teacher, the subject
Of schoolgirl fantasy
Her friends are so jealous
You know how bad girls get
Some times it’s not so easy
To be the teacher’s pet
Don’t stand so
Don’t stand so
Don’t stand so close to Sting
That song is so unbelievably gross.
I mean, it so transparently tries to justify child molesting as something that the “evil girls” are doing to the “poor teacher” that it straight up references the old man in Lolita, you know, the child molester, as a contemporary hero.
Like… what the ever loving fuck, Sting?
He’s also famous for a song about a man in love with a prostitute.
Hey, at least that gross song is only intensely denigrating to sex workers and doesn’t openly romanticize pedophilia.
It’s like, would you like this punch in the jaw or this bottle of poison?
He also has a song about stalking that many people think is romantic!
I think what we’re discovering is that if Sting turns out to have a basement full of women he’s kidnapped, we shouldn’t be surprised.
I… know several women who would love to be there…
Maybe we should call the Pol… n/m.
To be fair to Sting, which is not a sentence I often use, ‘Every Breath You Take’ was intended to be a creepy stalker song, people took it the wrong way. Same with The Cardigans’ ‘Lovefool’ and Babybird’s ‘You’re Gorgeous’.
‘Don’t Stand..’ is still vile though, and not alone in pop music of the time, look at The Boomtown Rats’ ‘Mary of the 4th Form’ or Wings’ ‘Girls’ School’ (Double A side to ‘Mull of Kintyre’)
Eeeegh…..and I like both songs, too. But it’s wrong. Eeeeeeeefh.
I must say, that song wasn’t big on my list of music I gave a shit about back in the day and I can’t say I ever paid attention to the lyrics of that song…seems I should have.
Have you ever actually read the lyrics? There’s nothing there that says the teacher acted on or took advantage of a schoolgirl’s crush. Looks to me (again according to the lyrics) it’s about a teacher about to be falsely accused.
Eeep, I take that back.
That’s the subtitle of my autobiography.
He used to be a teacher. Said girls had crushes on him. Said the song was about that temptation. He is pretty transparent about it.
He has at least directly said that the verse about the car describes a rape, which to me suggests he understood the ethics and power/consent issues of what he was writing.
The chorus, though, which reduces all that to an issue of association? Smack yourself in the bloody head, 29-year-old Sting, hard. You wanna write about themes like that, don’t bloody trivialise them by making the main focus of the song a shallow shitty pop song about someone being embarrassed to be seen with someone they’re pretending is just a crush. Nabokov got that, and you’re no Nabokov by a LONG shot.
I knew it was about pedophelia but I never got the impression the teacher was anything but a villain.
Sting writes a lot of creepy songs, frankly. “Every step you take I’ll be watching you”? Stalker much?
That one is SUPPOSED to be creepy
Eh, I didn’t interpret it as glorifying pedophilia. I interpreted that song as getting inside the head of a pedo, sure, but making me feel bad for him didn’t make me think he’d be justified in doing anything, it just made me sad that people are tormented by their own sick mind. Maybe I’m just projecting because I’ve dealt with a lot of mental health issues (depression and anxiety), a lot of (in my case, logically unwarranted but just as emotionally real) issues of guilt/shame over things that I can’t even control… it resonates with me. I understand what it’s like to feel ‘broken’, to try so hard to do the right thing (in my case, blaming myself for my own lack of capability, but in his case desperately trying to talk himself out of acting on his urges) but being unable to change the fact that your brain is undermining you at every turn.
The teacher he’s singing about is *sick*. He has a desire to commit a socially and morally unacceptable act that he’s struggling to suppress throughout the entirety of the song, but he can’t chose not to feel that desire, just to control it. It’s not like the girl knows what’s going on in his head, or is culpable for his actions in any way – his perception of her is increasingly warped, and he’s struggling hard to be a good person despite his feelings.
Sting wrote a lot of songs that put you inside the head of a creepy person. It’s uncomfortable to have to empathize with and understand people who have immoral thoughts and act in immoral ways, but being put in their shoes isn’t the same thing as glorifying or excusing them. They’re creepy not because they’re ‘evil’, they’re creepy because they’re mentally ill. Not the song about the prostitute for all I know, I’ve never listened to it, but for the other ones the narrator is obviously disturbed. I’m deeply uncomfortable with the idea that people can’t be empathized with for things about themselves they can’t change, even if all you can do is pity them while treating them the same.
Lots of lyrics Sting wrote for the Police are creepy as hell. Give “Every Breath You Take” or “Can’t Stand Losing” a listen. It makes you wonder how creepy he is/was in real life.
(Later on)
“That was not meant to be construed as me actually giving you permission!”
Obviously we know you didn’t do it Leslie, but you’re not making a great case for yourself
Neither is Robin.
And now the other shoe drops.
By my count that leaves ar LEAST three shoes still airborne; depending on your perspective.
Are you offering to assist with that, Robin?
…your breath smells nice.
Doubt it. They just got up and are wearing the clothes they slept in, so I doubt anyone has gone through a morning hygiene routine.
Unless Robin borrowed Leslie’s toothbrush without asking, too. Since it’s Robin, we can’t 100% rule that out.
Without brushing, Robin’s breath probably smells like Skittles.
Keep in mind we’re in the more realistic universe where robin does not have superpowers derived from ridiculous eating habits.
But everybody likes Skittles…
That doesn’t mean she eats responsibly.
Exactly; not having superpowers derived from ridiculous eating habits doesn’t equal not having ridiculous eating habits.
Yeah, I mean my dad claims that when he was a starving grad student he lived off of nothing but candy bars for like two weeks. Also pretty sure my brother ate like that on purpose when he first started college.
Yeah, but the fact that she’s not dead means they’re at least not AS ridiculous as they were in Shortpacked!.
I’m just impressed that someone noticed the hair style change for once in a love story (one sided as it may be.?????. does that count?)
I had this happen to me in real life. My college boyfriend sat behind me in the one class we had together first semester freshman year, and in the third or fourth week of classes I had finally gotten my contacts I had forgotten at home and wore them to class, and he stopped me after class to comment on the fact that I wasn’t wearing my glasses.
*looks for some old Seventies comedy records to play on the hacked Muzak *
“…something something mashed potatoes!”
One eyed, one horned, flying purple, …
Look, if I’m to have an argument with you, I must take up a contrary position.
Yes, but that’s not just saying, “No, it isn’t.”
Yes it is.
Aw, c’mon, I was just getting into it..
*runs in with a stack of Weird Al Yankovic singles I (wish I) owned*
Hava banana, have a whole bunch,
It doesn’t matter what you had for lunch.
Just, …
…eat iiiiiiit!
So, who are the suspects for this crime? Robin’s nameless aide might be one. She treats him like a doormat, so he might want revenge.
Anyone who happened to be in the bar at the time and had any vague interest in politics?
It was David Willis. He was taking reference pictures of the bar to use as a background in a future strip, and happened to catch the two of them in one of his shots. It gave him an idea for a storyline and now I’ve gone cross-eyed from too much meta.
I’m not sure I feel safe sharing a reality with Robin DeSanto…
Eh, could be worse, considering all the people we already share a reality with…
Now I’m stuck playing “would you rather” with myself over which odious real life personality I’d trade for Robin…
Which, in a college town bar, might not be anyone.
…wait, what colleges are you familiar with where no one has the least interest in politics? (Or am I misinterpreting?)
I wouldn’t count on any random group of college students including anyone who has an interest in politics. A lot of kids are pretty politically apathetic, as seen by their voting numbers.(Of course there have been efforts to make it harder for young people like university students to vote in some places, further keeping the numbers down.) Even if there were some with a political interest in the bar that night they may not have recognised her unless she’s their Congresswoman.
We clearly know very, very different groups of college students.
Ditto. College students are, like, politics elementals.
In my experience, you’d have trouble throwing a rock around campus without hitting someone politically active
Yup, that’s the reason voting numbers are down. If you’ve ever voted on a campus, you’ve dealt with the 4 hour line for one half-working machine problem before. And that’s often on purpose as college towns tend to be more liberal-minded.
Beyond that, I can say from my experience mentoring college groups, that college kids are some of the most plugged in politics-minded folks you’ll ever meet.
I think I recall hearing this past election that at least one conservative politician was caught commenting that he either cut down polling places on purpose or didn’t mind them getting cut by a college, because the kids there voted liberal anyway.
The idea of a voting machine never fails to give me the heebie-jeebies. Hand counted paper ballots remain the best and most efficient way to vote.
(stares at you)
is glad to live in a country where voting is a duty rather than a right, meaning that the system is set up to make it as easy as possible for everyone of age to vote. (seeing as how you get fined if you don’t go out and vote)
As such, no politician would get any advantage out of trying to make it harder for people to vote, and people can actually trust voting machines, because we have way too many parties, all of which with a chance to get at least some seats in the government, to try and mess with any of the results.
What country?
Belgium. Our every single government is made up out of a coalition of at least two to three parties, if not more. (admittedly, we also once spent a year without a government because they couldn’t manage to build a coalition, but still, it works, somehow.
My personal experience suggests (if only anecdotally) that the college kids are the most prone within their age demographic to be politically interested and/or active. The problem is they often don’t have the working systemic knowledge to know where to register (at home or where they attend school) and and how to utilize absentee programs when needed. Then you add on the fact that most students are only voting once during their undergrad college career, it’s most oft their first time voting and like most people they don’t stop and think about whether their registration is current until a presidential election year (typically in September or October when a student who needs to be registered at home may well be shit out of luck because they need to register in person in most states even if they need not vote in person). Then you add in all the time management issues the youngest end of that range typically have juggling classes, papers and studying, possibly work, extracurriculars and hobbies, etc then add in meeting the deadlines for registration and either absentee voting or else finding the time to get to and know where there polling place is (potentially while not knowing the nearby area off campus all that well yet).
Oh, and for the record the voter turnout rate in the 18 to 29 demographic typically hovers between 40% and 50%, for whatever reason it was lower during the bulk of the ’80s and ’90s, and their voter registration rates hover mainly around the 55% to 60% range.
That aside, the only people in Robin’s district who don’t know her on sight are not watching TV and/or ad supported videos on the internet. Both get flooded with political ads most of which have pictures or video of one or more candidates for the relevant office in them, with the internet ads targeted by region to the IP address of the viewer.
I wonder how much money Mike got for that photo. :O
It’s part of his scheme to seduce Ethan. Everything else is just a bonus.
He needs a scheme? I think if that’s his goal he could get it pretty easy.
Tbf, Robin, first she’d have to be monetarily compensated for doing so. Unless someone slid a check under the door, that’s a hurdle we haven’t passed yet.
Suddenly the mail arrives through the slot.
Robin: “AHA! Let’s see how many pieces of silver this little scheme got you!…Coupons? Betrayal doesn’t pay as well as it used to. Can I keep the one for Dunkin Donuts?”
Oh, crap.
Leslie specficially pointed out she’s not tenured. Willis is definitely setting up for bad things to happen.
I mean, I still think she’ll probably pull out okay and not lose here job, but it’s going to be an ordeal.
Yeah, as 30-something woman working in academia, there’s no way she was tenured. The only people with tenure these days are aging baby boomers. **seethes with bitterness** Most college Admins actively hate tenure and are trying to do away with it – and mostly succeeding.
Not to say you aren’t correct from a narrative stand point since, as you noted, that had a very Chekov’s Gun vibe to it. Just sayin’ there was no way in hell she had tenure.
My suspicion is that she’s going to be suspended/threatened with not being renewed in the new year for “bringing negative attention to the school”.
Agreed. I don’t think Leslie will get fired, but I think she’s gonna sweat bullets about it. I’d like Roz to realize this could’ve cost her favourite teacher’s livelihood, get some ice-water thrown on her callousness.
(without it actually hurting Leslie, that is. Leslie’s my favourite.)
Yes, Leslie. We all noticed your hair. ((:
She did something to her hair?
Did she seriously sleep with socks on?
I do, so my feet don’t get chilly. Is that unusual?
I can’t sleep with socks on since my feet get too warm etc.
Maybe it’s a guy thing.
It is.
Or at least the feeling of colder hands and feet due to blood circulation is directly effected by having an elevated estrogen level or not. More estrogen in fluctation can cause an effect where it feels like extremities are losing body temperature more easily, thus necessitating keeping hands in warm places or wearing socks.
Lower estrogenated, more testosteronated systems in general can also have different pools of heat retention, producing an overall effect where it’s easier to feel sweaty and overheated for similar reasons.
It’s one of the cool free-with-purchase add-ons you happen to discover undergoing HRT.
Naturally of course with any intergender difference, the intragender variance massively overshadows it of course.
This is interesting, because I’m a guy and I swear my arms are spaceship level radiators and have them open to the wind, while my feet get cold on the floor in winter; but I also do have the wonky heat retention things.
Of course, this is all my own guess based on my own observation, I’m not going to self-medicate myself on that alone, but it’s just a thought to add. I really need to bloody see a doc soon aboot it all.
Intragender variation > intergender variation.
Or in english, the variation among folks with dominant testosterone versus those with dominant estrogen levels greatly outnumbers the variation between testosteronated and estrogenated systems.
As such, it’s mostly noticeable among folks who start HRT or experience hormone fluctuations or imbalances as they have a solid baseline to compare to.
There’s your trans* fact of the day(TM)!
But yeah, before I started testosterone I was always cold. As in bizarrely so, looking back. The only times I didn’t wear long sleeves and trousers was heat waves. I was definitely a socks-in-bed person. Now I wouldn’t say I’ve gone to the opposite extreme, but I spend a lot of my time feeling rather warm, I’m scarcely bothered by the cold now, and I get warm VERY easily from physical activity. Socks in bed would only happen when I’m very cold, such as if the heating is broken in winter or if I’m ill.
It’s a fascinating thing.
Trans facts, unlike trans fats, are good for you.
And now I learned something new, thank you 😀
And learning is half the battle!
Go Joe!
I can’t sleep without socks unless the room is very warm, and last time I checked I was XY. But then again I have some history with conditions that have a negative effect on temperature tolerance. Besides the wreck and associated circulatory damage to my leg, I got frostbite delivering newspapers during a FROPA and about a 40°F temperature drop that led to wet socks freezing to my ankles. Yay! fun.
Like most things, its more about your hormone levels than your chromosomes.
One man’s FROPA is another man’s Frontal Passage.
For me it varies by ambient temperature. Sometimes over the course of a single night.
I occasionally do, but they always get lost halfway through the night because apparently I run marathons in bed.
Not unheard-of, I’ve dated guys who couldn’t sleep without socks on.
Is there something wrong that ? look some people sleep in the nude, others can’t get rest without cuddling something, and people (like me) sleep with their socks on.
It’s not the weirdest sleeping habit.
I parts of the world where winter isn’t some kind of baby season (for babies) wearing socks in bed is pretty typical most if the year
If you need to wear socks in bed, you don’t have enough blankets.
Or it’s goddamn cold and you lose a lot of heat through your feet.
Enough blankets to ensure your feet stay warm would also make the rest of you TOO warm.
Or you’re very tall and can’t cover your feet and shoulders with the duvet at the same time.
THANK YOU!
or you share your bed with a cat, believe me, that’s plenty of reason to get used to wearing socks to bed.
THIS
I find sleeping with socks on causes mildly painful hair things to happen, kinda like what happens if I don’t keep my beard combed. Plus vague worries about circulation.
WRONG UNIVERSE HANNELORE DID U GET LOST???
I came over here after I had my minions release the virus.
NO….please don’t….there are other options….
If I don’t sleep with socks on, I wake up with a cold. Even in August.
Robin is being very “stupid sexy Leslie” here.
I’m choosing to interpret this as Robin offering to help with those saucy photos
Oo-er, Matron!
Sure Robin, you’re not in any closets, that’s why a pretty lady was able to work her wicked charms on you.
Doesn’t the ‘vile temptress’ angle only work if Robin is already temptable?
“I thought everyone had those thoughts” – Megan from But I’m a Cheerleader!
Oh yeah, like Billie!
“Everyone looks at other girls, all the time.” -Both Billie and Megan
“It’s kind of inevitable.”
Not in the minds of those who really believe in the whole lesbian temptress thing. Remember, to them, gay people go around tricking people into doing gay sex
Because being gay is choice. (They say, not me.)
Yup.
No one is actually gay. People just choose to be gay in order to seduce impressionable young folks into abandoning God and joining Satan. And bi people are either secret homos trying to hide among the “good folk” or noble ex-gays fighting the good fight. And trans people are just what happens when you gay too hard and hit maximum gay.
I wish this was not literally the world-view on this shit.
Oh dang I actually forgot that people still totally believe this. How did I ever even forget that?
It was a nice place, my denial.
…see, this is a real Poe’s Law subject when it comes to me.
It just sounds so fucking absurd. That gay people are flippin’ sorcerers that have mystical powers to make you want the D (or, in this case, V). At least the phrase “Lifestyle Choice” at least has the veneer of “not getting it because they haven’t lived it” that makes it an understandable* error.
And yet… yeah, I can see the willfully ignorant clinging to that notion when they get the “Stupid Sexy Flanders” thoughts: They’re thinking “There’s nothing with me, it’s the gay people that are making me do this!”, that way they’re the victims…
…but it’s still just so… laughably stupid that it’s hard to actually believe that people think that.
*: Understandable =/= Acceptable. Just meaning that I can see where they get their views, not that I find them okay in any way, shape or form.
Bigot logic is weird sometimes. See the bizarre twists people make to somehow argue that trans or ace people are actually super powerful oppressors or superhuman demonic rapists.
On the sorcerer thing, I’ve told you all the story of how my dad actually thought my ex was an evil sorceress who brainwashed me trans in order to slake her bisexual lust, right?
Damn those evil bisexual sorcerers! They already get both the V and the D, now they want people to change genders despite being attracted to both?! What vile depths will they sink to next?!
(to quote one of my favorite exchanges from William Shakespeare:
Marcus Andronicus. Why dost thou laugh? it fits not with this hour.
Titus Andronicus. Why, I have not another tear to shed)
Elusive bisexual can confirm. We are wizards of hedonism, and our lust cannot be slaked. Trans people, particularly mtf, are the ultimate delicacy. We must either turn everyone bisexual or trans; only then can we be fulfilled.
The goal is a worldwide orgy that never stops. Jsyk
Same school/mindset that gives us:
“I’m a Good Person (obviously), so where are these intrusive thoughts coming from? It can’t be that I have such evil inside me; it must be… *gasp* Satan!”
(no, that’s just how the brain works, but these people live and believe in a world where magic is real, so.)
As lampooned so well by Dana Carvey.
“And trans people are just what happens when you gay too hard and hit maximum gay.”
Serious topic but that sentence made me chortle.
But yeah, I vividly remember when the possibility of people being trans came into my awareness, there was a transwoman on one of my mother’s shows. When I asked about her she said that transpeople are “gay men who pretend to be women to have sex with other men.”
Needless to say, that made me realising that I needed to transition to be happy somewhat harder…
What happens when you hit maximum trans?
You get the Super-Ultra-Mega-Gay combo for increased damage.
You apparently become a Power Ranger.
*hugs offered* Yeah, the twisted view culture has of what trans meant kept me from realizing too.
It was like, well, I’m not enamored in makeup or want to sleep with guys, so I guess I must not be trans after all.
*Hugs accepted and returned.*
I remember sending Willis a message a while ago thanking him for Carla, and how she avoided being presented as either “basically a man in a skirt” or hyperfeminine, as transwomen so often fall into one or the other in media. His reaction was basically relief at finding out about an awful thing by way of discovering he’d avoided it.
I have a pair of friends (m/f couple) who first introduced me to the concept of gender dysphoria back as a teen. (He identifies as female but lives as male, and treats his female identity as an “alter ego” to cope- it’s complicated to talk about, especially as I don’t want to be seen as disrespectful by using male pronouns.) Anyway, they sent me a link to a documentary about these two transman teens in a relationship, and then after I watched it I was chatting with the girlfriend. She said that they had come to the conclusion that one of them “didn’t really identify as male” because he had been happy about getting Barbie as a kid and still liked to do things like face masks. I had to point out that they’d be fine with a cis gay guy liking those things, and the “oh, I never thought of it like that” made me facepalm so hard.
The toxic stereotypes being reinforced from within the LGBT+ community as well as outside of it makes me sad.
I’m now picturing “Maximum Gay” as some kind of 80’s action movie.
Jean Claude Van Damme and Jackie Chan. Jackie Chan is the sinister “Maximum Straight” and he’s trying to preserve his marriage by destroying all others.
Been thinking, I really think Robin got that paranoia from whohername was handling most things are the rally, the other day.
I mean, she kept trying to blame whatever was happening (the intern thing, etc) as propaganda/slandering from “the other candidate”
Sounded more to me like just what was taken for normal in her circle.
Which means dealing with the realisations and self-awareness that Robin needs right now is going to be hard.
No, that’s a common Republican thing, not unique to Frieda. Even if Robin doesn’t have that thought process naturally, she’d have long since picked it up from the rest of the party.
confirmed that Leslie was originally planning to out Robin with that photo before her change of heart
Not confirmed! She didn’t think of doing that until she woke up in bed next to robin, and she promptly deleted the photo instead.
Leslie’s hesitation in this strip is “I would never get my hair did and wear a sexy unbuttoned shirt for you– oh wait I totally did that. I wouldn’t out you though!”
I don’t think she quite got to the planning stage, but the idea definitely crossed her mind.
She went right up to the line, but decided she couldn’t go through with it. Though I think she’d object to it being a planned intended thing.
What everyone else had said, she thought about it for a *second*, but decided not to. And even as an apparent radical, I agree with that decision.
So… I guess this is going to keep going between Robin/Leslie and Roz/Dotty. MAXIMUM CLIFFHANGER!
I really hope Roz arranged it. People are going to give her crap just for being happy Robin embarrassed herself. Why not actually do it? At least there’s something (arguably) to be ashamed of there. I say arguably because it’s her sister, not that exposing monstrous hypocrisy is wrong. Said as the straight white cis dude in his ignorance.
Regardless . . . She painted a target on Leslie’s back. Even if Robin deserves this, Leslie does NOT.
Roz has already said she had wanted Robin to out herself, which would not have involved consequences for Leslie.
Roz didn’t do this to Leslie
You can’t just go by her words. Actions matter. And what were Roz’s actions? She set up Leslie and Robin. There is no way that sort of thing works unless Leslie is involved in the outing.
I mean, it’s not as if Leslie and Robin were going to hit it off, possibly have sex, and then Robin would suddenly come out to the world of her own volition. And Roz isn’t naive enough to think that would happen. She knows Robin wears masks and will hide who she is to win.
The only way Robin “outs herself” with Leslie is that she gets caught doing something stupid. And that’s exactly what happened. And, of course Leslie would also be involved in that.
She’s the lesbian who seduced this poor, straight politician. Even if she’s not right there when it happens, there’s no way Robin’s campaign doesn’t go after her.
Now, I fully believe that Roz didn’t consider how that would affect Leslie. She isn’t a monster. And I don’t think Robin was lying when she said Roz liked Leslie (even if she may not quite be her absolute favorite teacher–a little embellishment for flattery’s sake is not unheard of).
But what she said there was just an excuse, in response to someone calling her on being a jerk.
Hence why she attacked back, doing more psychological warfare on Dorothy. Now she’s trying to manipulate her into intentionally making mistakes, which Roz then use against her.
By “outing herself”, Roz certainly meant she hoped Robin would realize she wasn’t straight and come out voluntarily.
But as you say, what Roz has actually done is what matters. And she had no part in outing Robin at all. All she has done is try to play matchmaker. How is that alone something malicious? Leslie is an adult who knows damn well who Robin is and what could have happened.
Blaming Roz for this is completely absurd.
Roz didn’t even set them up. They hung out together of their own accord. Sure, the fact that they met in the first place is because Robin was visiting her “kid” sister and met the teacher, and was later invited to speak to the class to give Leslie an opportunity to hook up with her, but they also met up with each other on their own terms. Leslie, by going to Robin’s rally, and Robin, by meeting Leslie after class hours and asking her to drinks. Neither of which Roz was involved with. And especially what happened next? Roz had jack-diddly-squat to do with that either.
All she did was provide them the means to meet each other. That’s it.
Gloating about her sister being outed was enough to rub most people the wrong way.
There’s a difference between feeling something and actually rubbing this feeling in other people’s faces.
Thatcher’s death is a good example of that, actually. Feeling happy about her death? Not the nicest thing, but hey, I can kinda understand the sentiment, considering all the shit she pulled. Outright celebrating her death in the street, especially many years after she stopped being a threat. Dick move.
So in this case: It’s good that hypocrisy got revealed – but revelling in it like Roz does… yeah.
I knew a gay guy who lost two boyfriends to the AIDS crisis who cheered like nothing else when the ol’ Gipper died. Sometimes someone is responsible for monstrous violences against you and your kin and it’s not nice. It’s not kind. It’s certainly not respectable, but you just feel you need to celebrate that someone who took loved ones from you and went on to live a long and healthy life with no consequences as if your loved ones never mattered is no longer around.
Cause with old bigots, them finally kicking off after long and successful lives battling every second against the rights of others for no valid reason other than their own pettiness and hate, it’s the only respite the oppressed ever get to see.
I am totally 100% fine with your friend cheering for Gipper’s death.
Robin isn’t really oppressing Roz (though she does actively help oppress people Roz cares about). Loudly gloating about Robin’s demise was in poor taste. It’s surely not the worst thing Roz will ever do, but it’s rude.
Robin IS trying to restrict sexuality and, considering her platform, probably birth control and abortion, both of which oppress Roz. She also drags her around, keeps tabs on her during events, and forces her to keep her mouth shut about her politics and her opposition to Robin’s for the sake of Robin’s own political gain, which is supremely fucked up if not abusive.
Robin’s shitty to Roz. I don’t blame her for not crying for her sister.
What BBCC said, though I’ll give you that Roz is frequently rude.
Roz is kind of a rude person when the fancy strikes her.
Well-behaved women seldom make history.
Oh, yeah, Roz can be an ASSHOLE. She just also happens to be dealing with Robin’s shit.
Luckily, neither Roz nor your friend need to give a hoot what I think about their cheers, so bedtime for me. 🙂
Personally, I think you have that backwards:
Robin is oppressing the person Roz cares about, that is, Roz, and also a bunch of other folks whose cause it is therefore convenient for Roz to support. Because doing so ultimately benefits Roz.
No, I do think Roz cares about her causes. But ‘caring’ does not mean ‘kind’.
Cerberus, that still sounds like a genuine expression of raw emotion, and not what Roz did. She went out, got dressed up, and started handing out flyers to everyone. She’s not just “cheering.” She is deliberately rubbing people’s face in what happened. Hell, she’s gloating, since she knows she had something to do with it.
What your friend did sounds like a perfectly normal reaction, and I do not begrudge him in the slightest. I personally would hope that, after that time of catharsis, he also thought of the people who would be hurt by his passing.
I say that because I try to do that myself. I even did it when Osama bin Laden was killed. I honestly think it’s important to take some time to feel sad about even the most deserved deaths. It keeps us human, and not full of hate.
I realize others feel differently.
I’d like you to go back and try to find the comic where Roz handed out flyers.
She didn’t. She showed a couple people the story on her phone. She also didn’t get dressed up for that, but because she’s “dressing for the job she wants”.
She’s gloating, yes, and it’s not super empathetic, but you are reaching for ways to villainize her further
I personally strongly disagree on your Thatcher comparison.
Firstly, celebrating the demise or the end of the career of someone who has caused harm is totally fine, in my opinion. It may not be “nice”, but we’re people, and we don’t have to be completely nice all of the time- although that’s a “luxury” that is seldom offered to people who aren’t straight cis white guys. But celebrating the ruination of a harmful person’s career or the death of the same is not the same as celebrating their pain, suffering, harassment, etc. THAT would be, in my opinion, “wrong”- the eye for an eye mentality doesn’t help and celebrating suffering is not a positive thing. But a loss of a life or career used to subjugate and cause suffering, I have no issue with people celebrating. It’s a natural emotional reaction which, like all emotions, should be understood and allowed to run its course without taking over.
However, with Thatcher specifically, I feel even more strongly that being negative towards people for celebrating her death is unhelpful. I assume that you’re British, to bring up the comparison; and perhaps it’s my age, but I’ve never felt that people talked or felt as though Thatcher was a person. Obviously she was, but what I mean is when they talked about “Thatcher”, what they were talking about was (generally) not that personhood but more a summation of her impact. So when she died, I feel as though much of the celebration was more celebrating the loss of the figurehead of her impact, rather than the actual death of a person. Perhaps that’s just me, and perhaps my experience and feelings are atypical- and as I said, perhaps it’s due to my age, as she left office when I was too young to have any idea what her impact on the country actually was.
That’s a really good point about how marginalized groups are frequently denied their right to feel angry and petty about their abusers and oppressors. We’re supposed to be good people all the time, but we’re people and well, when this stuff matters, it might not be “helpful” or “kind”, but it can be cathartic as all fuck.
Especially when it occurs in a society where people celebrate your suffering and encourage your suffering all the time for no other reason than how you were born.
It’s really hard to be “that perfect girl” all the time as Carla put it.
Roz did it so she’d be able to use all of Robin’s “Elect DeSanto” signs in her campaign for RA.
Yay, new mystery. Who is this political paparazzo?
Okay Amazi-Girl show your work
So how long before Leslie points out that sneaking into the apartment of and spending the night with another woman might not be the best way to allay accusations of lesbianism.
…did she just casually threw her phone over her shoulder? Does the walkyverse have unbreakable rubber phones or what?
Only when it’s funny.
Ruttech Zoomer. Designed for drama.
It’s a Nokia:
http://satwcomic.com/you-got-a-call
My old Nokia candybar once took a full-power blow from an SCA sword with only minor cosmetic damage.
Phone covers exist. I find that the Otterbox withstands any abuse I subject it to; throwing it across two rooms is nothing, let alone a gentle toss over the shoulder.
Carpet or a couch make a great landing pad, though.
Very much this. If I hadn’t invested in an Otterbox when I bought my phone I’d have had to buy a new phone a few times over by now. The most significant though were a five foot drop onto a concrete floor with not even a scratch and getting full immersed in water which didn’t even get through the cover to the phone itself by the time I fished it out.
I’d never heard of Otterbox, I’ll have to look into them! But I use a protective case from Redbubble, which is fantastic quality and there’s some great artists on there. I can be pretty clumsy and my phone has been completely fine in its case.
Oh, hell this! I’m always dropping things that are about the size and weight of a cell phone, so when I first got one, first question i asked myself was, “Ok, these things BREAK. How will I prevent that? What’s the best protection i can get for this thing?” Everyone and everything I read said ‘OtterBox’, so I got one, and I’ve never regretted it. I’ve done what Leslie is doing with my phone – just casually tossed it over my shoulder. I’ve thrown it to the floor, stomped on it, abused the heck out of it, and my phone has survived unscathed. These things take a licking, so your phone doesn’t!
..When and why did they move to the kitchen?
1. Off-camera
2. ‘Cause that’s where the sex is.
Heh I think you’re right that Leslie has an apartment with more than one room, but I had naturally imagined that Leslie’s kitchen was pretty much at the foot of her bed. You folks-who-don’t-live-in-excessively-expensive-cities sure are fancy.
You expect them to have this fight without caffeine?
Hmm, the alt-text is an excellent choice. Also now that I think if it, the picture is angled such that whoever took it would have to have been behind and slightly to the left of Robin and Leslie. And they were at the edge of the bar counter. It would seem to me that one of the bartenders would have had the best chance of getting that angle, so I’d say one of them did just what Robin is suggesting.
I love the little moment of distraction.
Yes, Robin, blame Leslie for the fact that you nearly kissed another woman in a public bar where there were lots of other people around who easily could have recognized you.
Also, thanks alt text, now I have that song stuck in my head.
Stupid Leslie, being all…there…and all…kissable and…wait, what were we saying?
You know, for someone who’s yelling at her, Robin keeps complimenting Leslie’s appearance. 😉
Is it time for “You’re beautiful when you’re angry” yet?
That’s an after-make out line, in my experience. 😉
I always preferred Lone Star’s variant from Spaceballs:
“Why, Princess! Those burning eyes! Those pouty lips! You… are… UGLY when you’re angry!”
It’s a photo though, knowing people now a days and their tendency to be in denial all the time about political news.
Robin is so deep in the closet that she’s in denial and lashing at the only person she can because she’s freaking scared. She’s grasping at straws and not being logical at all right now. It doesn’t excuse her actions, but it does explain them.
Being outed – especially when you aren’t even really out to yourself yet – is a traumatic experience. I can excuse outing done to politicians who actively hurt the community because their actions hurt so many people, but to no one else. My heart still breaks here even knowing she has hurt those in LGBTQ+ because of the pain and aftermath such a thing causes. At least Robin will have a support system.
And this is the scene where it all comes out.
….
*flees for dear punning life*
Panel One: Aw, Leslie, you think the gossip rag news cares? Honey, BABY, you should know better by now. I can’t blame her for panicking over this. It could easily get her kicked out of her apartment.
Panel Two: Oh, fuck you, Robin. A) Her clothes were done up when you went to the bar. B) YOU INVITED HER TO THE BAR. C) She was LEAVING. YOU called her back. Jesus, LORD, Robin is irritating right now. I get she’s scared, and that she’s obviously going to say things that didn’t happen when she’s scared, but I get the feeling she’s not much for taking responsibility anyways.
“You noticed my hair” – Leslie, don’t be adorable.
Panel Three: I like how Leslie immediately tries to defend herself on that one. This is definitely a strong moral line for her, one she’s decided she will not cross.
Panel Four: Nice last minute word swap. Because, yeah, if she had done so, it clearly would not be something she wanted to do, but a last resort. And I like her tossing her phone away carelessly – being reminded of her original plan this morning was enough to make her throw that phone away even though the photo seems to have been deleted. Unless she just deleted a social media post draft or something and not a picture.
And yeah, Robin is still in denial, very badly. Either that or just doesn’t get herself yet. As far as she knows, this is a malicious lie. And yet, she’s clearly very attracted to Leslie.
Panel Five: Leslie seems nervous about that fact. As though she’d rather not be super close to the hot congresswoman who’s politics she cannot stand. And that seems to have snapped Robin out of her anger – she doesn’t like having her attraction to Leslie pointed out, yet she keeps doing things that seem like she is attracted to her.
Panel Six: Oof. Yeah. What is money? This could be a problem if I’m wrong and Leslie gets fired. And honestly, tenure is disappearing quickly. And of course, Robin’s suggestion is both passive aggressive and yet something I can see Robin doing. And yeah, sadly, it’d probably pay better. And no, Robin, some folks can’t just ‘get a bigger kitchen’ and not by their own choice.
Panel 2: I suspect that if they had banged all night, Robin would still blame Leslie for it.
She really wants her queerness to be the result of secret homo mind-rays than have to admit that the group she’s been fighting so hard against for votes includes herself.
Panel 5: The morals are strong but the libido is resting in the corner for a come-back.
Yuuuuup. Somehow Robin asking her out to drinks is Leslie’s fault. Because something something seductive lesbians!
And round two – morals vs libido is coming up.
I fear Leslie only has so many bouts in her before Libido wins. Like, morals has to win every time. Libido just needs to win once to push her over to a place she really does but really doesn’t want to go.
YUP. If libido wins, she’s hosed.
We need Robin’s shoulder angel and devil making commentary. Call the CEA!
Judging what just happened over at Sandra and Woo I’d re-ponder including the angels and devil. Thanks to them Sandra almost got killed and Larissa sold her soul to the devil to prevent it (although she was given a place as a succubus and on Hells board of directors when she dies)
Yeah, Leslie’s guilt for what she and Roz kinda planned in the mid panels and lingering attraction in the last panels is really hard on her.
I just feel bad that Leslie got all the worst outcome from this, but none of the fun sexytimes “Jessica” hoped for.
…although I suppose she DID spend the night flirting with Robin, and DID wake up with her in her bed, so it’s not for Robin’s lack of trying.
Yeah, at this point,s he may as well have had sex with her, as far as results are concerned.
Uh, did Robin put her shoes back in the middle of the conv, or just slept with them on ?
Those appear to be Uggs, so could go either way. They might not even be hers.
She got all the dirt on the top of the blankets, not the bottom, so no big D.
My understanding was that she was kinda drunk when she came in.
There’s the title of your first country hit song right there!
Paging Sven Bianchi…
I wonder how long til Les points out to Rob that, PR wise, spending the night at her place was the worst way to respond to this.
Yeah, Robin doesn’t seem to be any good at political strategy. Or any strategy. One time Riley beat her at chess in under fifteen moves.
It made no sense, the horsies were the coolest and she got all of them to the other side of the board. That should have been enough to win.
That last line raises the question: If Robin thinks Leslie’s primary intention was to get politically damaging photos, why did Robin climb into Leslie’s bed and go to sleep? And how did Roz learn any savvy political tactics from this woman?
Cause she’s flailing wildly cause she suspects deep down that Leslie might be right and she might be more into girl-lovin’ than she otherwise let on.
And it was very drunk out.
I’m waiting for Leslie to deescalate the situation by accidentally appealing to Robin’s ego. “Of course I dressed up, you’re fucking hot!”
That might escalate ANOTHER aspect of the situation. There might be some… messing up involved.
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: Leslie is in distress. And for multiple reasons.
One, her job and housing could be in jeopardy. Two, she was desperately trying to avoid a situation like this and thought she did very well to break off every time and prevent a mistake they couldn’t come back from and so is disappointed that she’s getting all the fallout and none of the fun.
Three, well, here’s the thing. Leslie just got photographed “macking” on the homophobic politician. That is going to be murder on her reputation in the queer community. She’s been working hard to try to be a resource young queer folks can come to, but if she’s seen as the secret girlfriend of a bigot, that’s all gonna be thrown in the trash and she’s gonna become “untrustworthy” over night.
And that’s before considering the local community she is still likely connected to. Friends who survived the streets with her. You think any of them are gonna be happy Leslie was photographed “swapping spit with the homophobe” as is implied in the article? After she tried to pass legislation to make it more likely for them and their friends to die?
Leslie’s not only at risk. She may have just lost her entire community as well and it’s gonna be harder still to claim its a misunderstanding when paparazzi start stalking outside the apartment this morning because of this hoping to get a shot of Robin leaving.
Panel 2: Robin is deathly allergic to personal responsibility.
Like, for everyone yelling at Roz yesterday as if she personally took the shot, no one yet is more responsible for the outcome here than Robin. Like even Leslie has been trying and trying to set boundaries and keep things from coming closer, but every time Robin’s tried to escalate into something happening or going to a less secure location.
Following up after class, pushing through her attempted cold shoulder, inviting out to a bar, pushing hard on Leslie to open up, and even asking her what messing up would look like when Leslie tried to leave.
Like the most credit/blame for this goes to the person at the bar taking the picture, but Robin couldn’t have made it easier for the paparazzi to spin this story if she was to follow Roz’s earlier plan of dragging girls on stage to kiss her:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/out/
And this is the ugly side of that, victim-blaming to the point where she’s straight up making accusations to the way she was dressed as if that was to blame for all the boundary pushes Robin has made along the way to make this happen.
And poor Leslie, she’s been trying to be strong all day, but she’s in just a t-shirt in her bedroom with a congresswoman she has the hots for even though she hates herself for having the hots for her and now Robin’s making very focused comments on noticing her outfits and hair and calling her super cute.
Like, she really doesn’t want to mess up beyond the point of no return and that’s why she’s been setting these boundaries, but I fear Robin’s going to bundle right over until they actually sleep together and then blame Leslie for corrupting her with gay powers*.
And that last part is also at the core of her accusation. The people Robin considers her base literally do believe that gay people are fakers who just emit sexiness rays to convert innocent straight-people into “deviant” “lifestyles”. Robin’s accusation cuts far deeper than just regular victim-blaming for attraction.
The “gay powers” thing would be kinda funny if it wasn’t something her constituents would also easily believe.
I only found out it wasn’t true when a gay guy sorta asked me out–in the form of getting some girls to ask for him. Not exactly some super suave seduction going on there.
Though, now that I think about it, I wonder if they were just trying to set us up. Or wondering if I was gay. They never actually told me the guy’s name or anything.
I can’t behind your reasoning why the queer community would feel betrayed by Leslie. Has thinking such a bad rep nowadays nobody bothers?
Like: if she were her secret girlfriend, she would NOT be so stupid as to (nearly) kiss Robin in a public place?
Or “this rag states they kissed, the photo is rather ambigous and no proof at all, I wonder what really happened?”
????
Maybe they’ll think that, but the picture still shows them hand-holding and in an intimate moment with intense blushes. And we’ve seen Leslie doesn’t react well or subtly to being called out on her crush, mostly just going into panic mode.
And there’s gonna be folks who are pissed simply that Leslie was close enough and familiar enough with Robin to be photographed like this regardless of whether or not they believe they banged or not. Because to them, that’s gonna feel like a betrayal worthy of anger already.
Yeah. The victim blaming is UGLY. Believable, sadly, but ugly.
I really, really wish they could end this on a high note. “Ooopos, we got in a sticky situation together, let’s figure out to help each other out.” But sadly, that’s not how it goes.
Panel 3: And that’s the accusation that Leslie starts to respond to. That she intended to seduce her simply to out her. That she is the beast her parents regard her as, something to just turn good god-fearing Christians into devil-worshipping sinners.
It’s the accusation Carol made directly about Becky with regards to Joyce.
And that’s a nasty accusation that Leslie has no time for.
Panel 4: But I love that in all things, Leslie has a strong moral core that she returns to. She wants to be honest where possible, it’s why she came out to her students so they could take her facts about queer issues with that in perspective. She wants to remain firm about why she understands a relationship with Robin would be disastrous.
And here, she is stopped in denying a monstrous accusation because she recognizes what actions she was very nearly willing to take and is reminded of them even if they are nowhere near equivalent. Hence the very specific denial.
Also, yes, Robin, you are the very epitome of straightness what with describing how the super cute teacher with a low-cut shirt was driving you forward even hours later into repeatedly trying to get into her pants.
That’s just the behavior of the galiest of gals being the paliest of pals.
Panel 5: Leslie trying to set another boundary, what’s the over-under on how long it’ll take Robin to shove her way past this one too?
Panel 6: A conservative congressperson who doesn’t understand that poor people can’t just will themselves more money with the magic of bootstraps? Say it ain’t so.
Also, is that an accusation Robin, or an invitation…?
And yeah, that lack of tenure could definitely rear its ugly head again this arc. I don’t think Leslie will get fired, but I can definitely see the Dean putting some pressure on her for “unwanted attention” and “political controversy”.
I think that it’s entirely in-character for Robin to not realise that it is she making Leslie hot and bothered rather than Leslie setting out to seduce her. Based on the crush, it’s quite justifiable to take the new look as actually being a signal that she’s receptive to Robin’s advances rather than attempting to attract Robin.
Leslie is a very, very moral person and I’m extremely proud of her. She has had her low points in this story, but in the end of the day – none of this mess is her fault, and she has done what she can to minimize damage.
She is truly worthy of Dorothy’s trust, and that’s something.
Yeah, there are problem brewing in the future. As for ol’ Dean himself I don’t think he has ANY illusions of Robin’s ability to cause trouble all in herself, and in combination with Roz there is NO reason he should have to suspect Leslie of any wrongdoings in any unfolding shenanigans.
But she DOES make for a convenient scapegoat (or, as Carla would put it, an acceptable loss), and THAT is a very real risk for Leslie’s future career.
…did Robin just imply she wants Leslie to take saucy photos of her?
“Here, I’ll pose. We’ll be getting you a new kitchenette in no time!”
“The damage is already done, right? Let’s do this RIGHT (and if it just happens to lead to some… messing up… the damage is already done, right?)”
I think that Robin needs to work out at some point that, irrespective of what she may or may not think or feel, her close presence is certainly doing something for Leslie!
…Robin is going to end this arc either out of the closet, or going full-on Orson Scott Card.
I really hope she picks the first one.
I find it exceptionally hard to buy Robin going so off the deep end as Card.
OK I’ve never read the other version(s?) of Robin… but is she really this dumb?
She finds out there are people following her getting incriminating photos of her with another woman… and the first thing she does is drive to the woman’s house, break in, and fall asleep in the same bed with her?
Yeah, that’s pretty much Robin to a T
That’s pretty true to Robin in any universe.
Robin’s not dumb, exactly. She’s impulsive as all hell, kind of self-centered (maybe delete the “kind of” for this version), and prone to grandiose gestures.
Combined, these traits result in a tendency towards over-the-top shenanigans that she hasn’t thought through, and especially hasn’t thought through how other people will feel about them, and that frequently result in her screwing up epically.
And then once she figures out that she’s screwed up, she has a tendency to try to fix things, often without understanding what the actual problem is – because she thought it was cool, so why is everyone mad at her? Was it something she said? – with even more over-the-top and equally ill-thought-out gestures. Sometimes that’s endearing. Sometimes it just makes things worse.
I suspect that Robin’s planning of this little breaking and entering expedition never got past “Step 2: ???”.
It’s the equivalent of Walkie throwing toys, or Ruth with Billie. Love moves people in mysterious ways.
Sugar moves Robin in mysterious ways.
Or maybe alcohol, in this case.
she’s super convinced robin is gay. from the first moment she hung out with her. it’s a bit weird. i mean, even if it’s realistic, she just straight-out didn’t believe she was straight when she first said it, giving a slightly condescending smile.
it just annoys me how leslie just presumes her gay from the first moment, with that kind of condescension.
Given the way Robin acts, believing she is straight needs about as much Belief as beliving in immaculate conception.
And first of all, Leslie didn’t. She was attracted from the start and that is not a function of the other person’s orientation.
Might have something to do with Roz setting them up, even to point of suggesting more cleavage. It’s reasonable for Leslie to think that Robin’s sister might have some inside knowledge.
And of course, she’s right. Everything Robin’s done suggests she’s attracted, but in deep denial.
Robin flirted with her in the first moment, so you know, that’s some big hints that the attraction was mutual:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/hmmm/
And she’s flirted with her every other time she’s interacted with her. Doesn’t require bi-foils of steel to pick up on those signals.
Robin is mad because Leslie didn’t even gain anything from this debacle. No money, no sexy makeout-time.
If you are going to play with politics, do it right, dammit.
“Sell a photo to a tabloid? Is that an offer…?”
“YES! Now, give me five minutes to strip and get my face on then we can start shooting!”
The worrying thing is that I have no problem at all in claiming that this would be in character for Robin.
Get the fuck out of Leslie’s house you intrusive garbage monster.
And people wonder why Roz was so glad to fuck over her sister – this is what her home life is likely like non-stop.
Nah, it’s way worse.
Robin respects Leslie’s opinion and is trying with her to be on her “best behavior” because of her attraction.
Roz gets the uncensored version that treats her life and everything that is important to her and everything she says as meaningless fluff easily set aside for the campaign.
Like, it’s no surprise that Roz would be thrilled at finally getting her freedom from all that bullshit.
Ouch, yeah.
Thanksgiving in the deSanto household likely ends with Riley giving everyone a time out and then eating cereals for the rest of the evening.
Which is why I have no patience whatsoever for the sanctimonious fuckbeings who whine about her being a ‘blood traitor’.
Seriously? I’ll admit to not reading the comments thoroughly or regularly, but people actually make that complaint?
Urgh. That disgusts me. Sharing a genetic code with someone does NOT buy them your loyalty. If someone is toxic and bad for your wellbeing you have every right to do what you need to to look after yourself.
Not that I approve of Roz’s reaction. It doesn’t feel like “hooray, we can make things better” to me. It felt somewhat vindictive, to be honest- although that’s just a gut reaction and I will wait to see what’s in store before settling my opinion.
Yeah, I get other people have different experiences with family and what not, but as someone who actually had my shitty uncle and dad try to call me a blood traitor who was destroying the family for refusing to agree to reparative therapy, I felt it best to try and side-step that conversation entirely less I got worked up.
Pretty shitty family here too, although without one horrific thing to point at. I feel kind of the opposite, I feel that I need to say something or it’ll eat at me. Some people honestly can’t think outside of their own family experience where loyalty is so important. If I can open one mind to consider that different people have radically different experiences to their own that’s worth it.
But really, screw that mentality. I have had people get frowny for cutting out the people who gave me PTSD, because “honour thy parents” or similar bollocks. It’s my life, it’s my wellbeing. *hug of understanding*
I ain’t gonna fault her for being glad at finally seeing the monster that’s been ruining her life laid low.
As I said, I’ll wait to see how things unfold. But there’s a difference between “you can’t hurt me any more” and “you deserve to be hurt”. One is worthy of celebrating, the other is a vicious circle.
Not that it makes Roz a bad person if she is celebrating or uncaring of the latter. None of us are “perfect” and have wholesome feelings at all times (unless we’re masters of suppression, which is more unhealthy.) If Roz feels vindictive then that’s how she feels and that’s valid- however, I’m also going to raise an eyebrow if she lets that drive her. (Lotta ifs in there.)
Robin has lived inside this impenetrable comfy bubble forever, where nothing penetrates for long and she can focus all her energies on her fantasy of being a heroic Congressman, without thinking too deeply about what she stands for and whether she’s really making things better.
Leslie has a different problem – she appreciates how complicated life can be a little too well. She’s searching for the perfect answer, wanting complete honesty, proper discretion and personal satisfaction. She wants to diffuse every tense situation and get her points across. Her hopeful intentions get crushed under that weight initially, and even when she musters up the decisiveness to do something, it’s instinctively to shut the source of her pain down and find a reason to justify the means.
It’s one of the reasons on a base level Robin and Leslie balance each other out nicely, even if they’re rather toxic to each other at this point thanks to the very different lives they’ve lived and worldviews they’ve developed.
You see narrative foils, I see perfect adversaries.
To be fair I don’t think Leslie has asked her to leave yet?
The entrance horrified her, but I don’t think she’s done with the current conversation/events yet.
One of the things really I like about (this universe) Leslie is that she is/has been strong enough to put her foot down in a direct manner. I trust her ability to do so if she gets tired of this.
It looks like, to me, that Leslie is on the back foot, is not being given time to think, is being pressured and so doesn’t have time to think of the right response which would be something like: “Get the fuck out of my house you intrusive garbage monster”
Its interesting to note that a successful seduction (or sale) usually involves the same techniques, keeping the target on the back foot, not given them time to think etc etc
With Robin, I don’t know if her last line was sarcastic, or a genuine piece of advice.
Y’know Robin, for someone with no same-sex attraction you sure noticed an awful lot about Leslie’s couture. And her hair. And her… neckline.
“Get a bigger kitchen.” Geez, Robin, you think people can just wish money into existence? Mentioning she is not tenured suggests Leslie will end up in the Dean’s office. In addition to making very little money, adjunct professors walk on thin ice.
Actually, I think that Robin, creating her own internal reality on the fly as she always does, is now accusing Leslie of setting up the whole incident to bulk out her inadequate salary.
From what I’ve seen, it’s a typical accusation by republicans that poor people are poor because they want to and they should just pull themselves up by the bootstraps and be rich instead.
AND Leslie got herself a small kitchen just to spite Robin.
…and I also think Robin’s mouth is set on autopilot while her brain is busy grasping the situation and trying to balance:
– freaking out over her political situation
– freaking out about the fact that she is attracted to a lady
– preventing herself from asking Leslie to follow her back to the bed for some more… embarrassment
– being mortified with the thought of what Leslie might think of her
– being hurt about Leslie potentially setting her up, or at least possibly betraying her
– being annoyed about Roz being right about something
– shying away from the implications of the “sweet lesbian facts” Leslie told her yesterday and her own guilt in the discrimination people JUST LIKE THIS cute blond she is attracted to are facing.
– Kinda wanting to watch some Steven Universe, but being unsure what would be the best episode to start with
…while hung over.
Yeah. All of this. At once.
Though I really think the “small kitchen” isn’t some horrible accusation, but just a reflexive excuse for being so close.
Oof, yeah, that last one alone can torment a person for days.
To be fair, everyone noticed Leslie’s… neckline.
You know… With her hair down, seen from the back, Robin looks a lot like Roz. There’s a potential worse case scenario here where Robin’s campaign spins the photo as Leslie seducing one of her students.
It says a lot about someones art/narrative style when similar-looking characters cause little confusion in the audience, instead leading to complex plot predictions based on that similarity.
Gecko isn’t the only one thinking like this.
Congrats Willis, you have come far from the days of Dorothy and Amber confusion.
(And your observation has the potential to be correct G, sorry to talk about you rather than to you.)
Dammit.
Robin is an angry, anti-LGBT senator and she still has more “game” than I do.
Robin is a Congresswoman, but still, ouch.
Oh shoot. Thanks.
And right??
Personally I find that when someone is angry at me, it’s generally better not to casually toss their phones away like an empty glass of champagne at a Russian banquet.
You know, I’ve never tried it. I’m willing to give the method the benefit of doubt until I’ve seen how this situation has unfolded.
That’s Leslie’s own phone. Robin’s is orange.
Slap Robin, put her out of the door and move on with some other cute woman Leslie, be smart!
Did she just threw a phone casually? O.o girl you just don’t do that O.o (yes I am seeing all the other stuff… I am still procesing)
it’s funny because i am a tenure-track faculty member and that’s about the size of my kitchen.
don’t tell Leslie – she needs something to strive for
…you know, Robin, you are sending some SERIOUSLY mixed messages there XD
Glad I’m not the only one who saw that. Sounded like half her complaints were compliments…
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