The code itself ends at the A.
“Start” and “Select Start” are respectively for beginning the game, or switching to two-player mode and then beginning the game.
So what we can infer here is that butts played solo and Barf Ninjason played co-op.
From years of walls, and when Hyrule falls
I’m hoping that the things I do are working to connect with you.
(I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who thought of this)
Searching finds a BYGays page that offers ← ← → ← ↑ ↓ ↑ as a way to find out more about DC’s queer nightlife scene. Coincidence?
Probably. It’s only the one webpage and I don’t really even understand what they are asking you to push. But Robin is kind of undefinably queer and kind of undefinably DC, so it could just be the most obscure reference of all time…
I guess the only way to tell is to look for other really obscure references everywhere in Dumbing of Age, and maybe Willis’s other works as well. I’ll need to buy some tacks and string.
Maybe. But then we saw a dinosaur movie reference in the mouth of fundamentalist Ross, and it worked out, albeit with some light lampshading about whether it was coincidental.
Couldn’t one just double press home and then swipe up to force shutdown the app? (At least on iPhone, don’t know how it works on Android but I’d be shocked if it didn’t have a similar procedure built-in)
It never worked for me. If I selected the easier math levels, it was too easy and I’d do it and go right back to sleep. If I made it too hard, I would be too groggy to think, too sleepy eyed to see properly, and I would just get frustrated and restart my phone then go back to sleep.
There’s something so plaintive about seeing Robin burst out with “You never LIKED me!” Obviously many people like her, she’s a successful politician, but they don’t exactly know the real her, do they? And she’s smart enough to know that it’s generally not the smart people who like her– she sort of said that to Les when she told her that college professors didn’t. She wants a more meaningful regard than that– which is a big part of what love is– but even face to face with Leslie like this, the odds seem stacked against her ever, ever getting it, at least not unless she renounces the entire life she’s built.
The tragedy almost, but not quite, outweighs the ridiculousness of her being so angry with Leslie that she… crawls into her bed and sleeps quietly so as not to disturb her. SOMEHOW THIS MAKES PERFECT SENSE AND ALSO PROVES SHE IS STRAIGHT.
…. okay, my gut tells me that outing via tweeted barroom photos and tabloids is LESS contentious than what Leslie was about to do, but I can’t put my finger on WHY.
But Robin doesn’t have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the home she just invaded, and also no (reasonable) sense of personal connection with Leslie to be betrayed.
No, he’s right, as mentioned by others, there are a lot of reasons that what Leslie almost did (but didn’t, which is also very important to note) is worse than what the press actually did.
That said, doing something like that is still worse than thinking about doing anything.
Like I said two days ago, if Leslie used *that* photo from *that* situation, it wouldn’t had worked. Questions of consent come up at worst and questions of ‘entrapment’ come up at ‘best’. The Republicans would turn it around and damage Leslie more. Robin can easily say ‘I was drunk! I was misled!’ or even add ‘She raped me!’, and the Republicans will gobble it up because it gives them a chance to paint liberals as uncaring hypocrites (especially due to the ongoing discourse on consent).
And even if she doesn’t go that way, Robin can still damage Leslie because Leslie is outing *herself* at the time and attacking a Congresswoman. There are already cases of ‘outing’ homophobic senators and political figures which can be extremely dubious and should be avoided because it hurts the cause for gay rights than helping.
So when Leslie deleted the photo, that was the ‘right’ thing to do, at least in the long run. Robin has to fully, coherently, and 100% consentually engage in the gays if to be exposed. Something like cruisin’ for a lovin’ type deal(which already happens to some homophobes), not a drunk bar afternight deal.
It’s not being used to coerce actions she didn’t want, it was a planned attack to implicate her as a hypocrite and plant the seeds of doubt among her bigoted supporters that she was gay. It was also a bar, an open and public place
The only bad thing was the second part, and that was our side doing the dirty politics, so they’re just doing what they have to to make the world a better place in the cesspit of our politics, which makes it completely okay!
I, for one, am no fan of the paparazzi’s habit (and the tabloids indulgence of said habit) that a celebrity having a drink with someone is somehow news. Robin is almost certainly right that this is a politically-motivated act. The only mistake she’s making is believing that Leslie was consciously involved in this.
First of all, Leslie didn’t choose to go get drunk with Robin in public. That was Robin’s idea.
Second of all, Robin made a pretty big scene in denying she was even possibly other than ruler straight. Especially when she got to miming oral sex.
Odds of someone looking up, going, “Hey, isn’t that Senator Desanto raving like a lunatic?”, and snapping a picture were pretty good, all things considered.
Hey, everyone knows that gay people are part-succubi and emit irresistible homo rays that draw in straight people into immoral lifestyles through the intensity of their smouldering sexiness…
And I wish that was more hyperbole rather than what a lot of anti-gay politicians and groups verbatim believe.
I sometimes like to make my students squirm when I’m talking about heterogenous versus homogenous genotypes, by going over one and asking what they think the other is named. I do a similar thing when I get to cis vs trans isomers. Gets them thinking about the shared origins of words.
And the awesome benefit is one of my queer students remembered the genotypes from then on as “the queer one” and “the other one”. 😀
Omg are you a bio teacher too? I just started my first year that’s awesome. And forgive me for asking but didn’t you mention in past posts you were trans? If so how are you able to be a teacher and out. I don’t want to lose my job and that’s part of why I don’t transition. Sorry for bothering you 🙂
Yup! And yeah, I teach bio, chem, forensics, anatomy, and calculus for the most part.
And I am both trans and out. And the being out was fraught, unfortunately, and I got thrown out of at least one job for being trans and I suspect it was responsible for some suspiciously locked doors on some other jobs in the industry (there does seem to be a creepy attitude in education that trans=sex and therefore trans+kids needs to be stopped at all costs).
And I even recloseted myself for a bit to survive as I needed my employment so I can understand being terrified of being out and transitioning.
But overall, I found I couldn’t take not being out and when I was able to get hormones and when I was able to be out and proud in my job, I was a lot less depressed and I didn’t feel miserable all the time.
Ultimately what made the decision for me the last time I came out was there was a little trans boy that came to the school who thought he was all alone at the school. And I felt I needed to be out for him, so he could see that he wasn’t alone. And this helped one of our other staff members come out as trans too as well as several other students.
His letter to me of awe and gratitude for coming out is one I still have saved away and I turn to when I need reminders of why I fight.
I can’t say whether or not it feels worth the risks, but I can say this. Even if you don’t come out with your names and pronouns, it’s worth pursuing being out in the other arenas of your life and pursuing medical stuff if you want it.
Cis people are fucking blind and if they didn’t notice my three years of estrogen tits when I was recloseted, they’re definitely not going to notice for you.
If you’re really worried about it, I think the Trans Law Center has some resources about coming out at work and how to fight for rights to not be discriminated against if any exist in your state or city: https://transgenderlawcenter.org/resources/employment
Let me know if you have any other specific questions and if you need my safe email address for more personal questions or requests.
I have a great deal of respect for you and your courage. I also teach biology and while I am not trans my youngest is. While I am not in the least bit ashamed or embarrassed by his trans status (in fact, I’m excited that he now started testosterone treatments), I don’t mention it publicly AT ALL. No small part of my motivation for that is that there are enough aggressive hicks in this area that I fear making my son a target. Thats not to say that we are meek and passive (his older brother led the effort to get the confederate flag banned at his high school and I have not been shy about supporting LGBTQ causes publicly), but we still have a healthy fear of becoming a specific target. Additionally, right wingers have lately been targeting college professors to get them fired when they don’t submit to their will. As a result, I have some concerns for my future and a lot of concern for yours.
Yeah, it’s gonna be extra legal to fire me for being trans not long into January thanks to the First Amendment Defense Act and that’s likely only the beginning of how bad it might get.
I’m trying to process a lot this break and try and get to a space where I can settle in for the long fight and keep as many trans folks alive and happy as I can.
On the plus side, the FADA would have to be reintroduced and would likely lead to a bitter fight that might cause GOP bigots in Congress to make statements that can be used against the prospective law in court.
Your comment honestly means a lot and I wish I had the bravery you do. Best of luck B to you this coming year and I’m glad things have worked out for you in this current job and hopefully Trump won’t change that. Seriously though part of reading this comic is the comment section and it’s nice to know I’m not alone.
Yup, hell it’s one of the interesting things resulting from the real-world run on outing anti-gay politicians. Really hammering home the odd sexual obsession hater groups have for their objects of obsession and how often they betray fetishization of their object of hatred (see how often transphobes dig out hard to find tr**y porn for their hate screeds or homophobes act like queer folks are literally irresistable to anyone regardless of sexuality or most sexists talking about women ever).
#Notall, though … some are certainly trying to blame and shame and justify their closeted obsession, but there are also a lot of simple hateful bigots lookin’ for someone to hate on (and/or turn the hate away from themselves).
(Heck, there are even some plain opportunists, who will say they believe or hate whatever and whoever will get them more money, power, etc, which is all they really care about.)
And when you put them all together, the motivations intersect in some really weird ways, sometimes. :/
Oh very much so, but it is very notable how common psychosexual obsession plays into bigoted beliefs (see also the weird obsession with interracial porn tropes among racists, the obsession about muslims and immigrants “rampaging over our women” among islamophobes and xenophobes, and so on).
But yeah, the desires to have someone you have power over, so even at your worst you’re “inherently better” than every member of the hated group is also a powerful motivator.
Especially among folks who suspect they are not all that useful or important to the human race.
Like I mean, I’m sure they say something to that intent, and I’m pretty sure that this exact wording is a bit facetious, but I also don’t trust my common-sense understanding that some things are too ridiculous for even social conservatives to say.
I have seen someone on facebook repeatedly argue that the LGBT community performs illegal human experimentation on the mentally ill.
I wasn’t able to get them to elaborate on why they would do this, but she was dead serious. Some people have a boundless capacity for aggressive ignorance
I don’t know them at all. I just saw them spouting that nonsense repeatedly in the comments anytime the ACLU posts something that mentions LGBT rights.
I thought for sure she was a troll at first, but she seems to be quite sincere.
Look, they’re clearly fields and rays at the same time, or fields behaving in ray-like manners, or rays behaving in field-like manners, or some other space-and-gender-bending relativism nonsense.
Look, what it comes down to is that otherwise healthy people get unwillingly subjected to strange attractors.
No one will ever suspect she is gay now and the rumor that she slept with Leslie will be much less believable now that she’ll be walking out of her apartment this morning wearing the same clothes as last night.
Sad thing is is that I’ve seen old interviews with David Bowie which pretty much go exactly like that, where they imply him being bi is a front put up to hide his “real” sexuality.
Yeah, I’m betting those photos Robin has were taken by people who had nothing to do with Jake Manley. Pretty sure Robin and Leslie were not the only people at the bar.
I’m hoping they were taken by people who had nothing to do with Jake Manley. It’d be nice to have ONE politician in this comic I could respect as a politician.
Yes, I’m making the argument that it’s not ethical to out a queer anti-LGBTQ politician. Yes, I do want to have this fight.
I honestly don’t see anything wrong with outing hypocrites who try to pass bigoted laws that hurt real people, while those politicians are part of the same minority their laws would hurt if they weren’t in a position of power.
My biggest problem is that if you out someone so that their homophobic supporters will dump them, do you really expect the replacement to be less anti-LGBTQ?
Well, others have pointed out that despite Robin’s contention that she needs to pander to the homophobes, Robin’s district is actually very competitive and flip-flops between the parties fairly regularly.
It is also October in comic, so we can suspect that Manley is the nominative “liberal” candidate, so even if he’s super moderate or conservative leaning, he’s less likely to be as hostile to queer rights than her.
If this election is anything like those of other queer politicians who got outed, this will likely tip the election to Manley so for at least 2 years, there will be at least one less homophobe in office during a critical time and the following conservative candidate is going to be much less likely to stake their election on anti-gay rhetoric less they be suspected for being a similarly hypocritical individual.
So yeah, the replacement will probably be less anti-queer.
And that’s what we’ve seen with how the tactic has been used in the past.
US Republicans adapt. In the current climate, backing away from a rhetoric is around as likely as doubling down on it – hardline earns respect these days, and will for a long while, until we collectively learn”not backing off” is just a romanticized way of saying they rather not do their job if they can’t do it their way.
It worked for Trump. As long as you are charismatic enough, you can present anything you do or believe and a sizable portion of their voter base will be all over it.
I would agree, the post-truth situation presents a whole new thing, but then again, it only works because of very aggressive disenfranchisement and anti-democracy actions in conjunction with a compliant press so terrified of looking “biased” that they will never actually call out the lies on a systemic level and thus allow conspiracy theories reign.
Like, Trump’s new era of conservatism is going to do a lot of damage, very likely fatally to a large swath of people, but in a fair democracy it is not a sustainable movement, more the last gasp of a reactionary movement that has realized they need to adopt Apartheid-esque dirty tricks to remain in power.
And the dark ugly reality is that being a child molester and an abuser and an open nazi will never cost you as many votes as being secretly or openly queer.
It only workED due to those factors. At first. NOW career politicians will see the pattern and start electing charismatic figureheads to positions they can control from the background.
Fair democracy is an oximoron. Democracy is shit. It’s just less shit than anything else we as a race seriously tried before. It’s a decent spit away from Democracy in name only – just one time, a parliament and common people’s majority alike has to decide despotism is a-okay and you are back at autocracy again.
Politicians of both sides now know you can say ANYTHING at all as long as you are percieved well enough, and there will be no repercussions because getting voter support is more important than sticking to the party line.
NONE of this is going to just disappear in a puff of smoke if and when the factors that made it happen disappear. This was an upset in the political landscape from the voter’s side. Hundreds of organized politicians will adapt faster than millions of US voters can, though, and you will have at least a decade or so, at BEST, before this fully blows over.
I say this as a rather hope-oriented person. My hope is someone will notice it and nip in the bud. It will only be a last ghasp if it ultimately doesn’t work. It hasn’t finished it’s run yet – hell, it hasn’t technically even started yet. Success could inject another century for this old, outdated thinking to limp on, just enough to torture a couple million more of our descendants before it finally dies a slow, agonizing death.
Keep yourself on your toes. Be ready to celebrate, and be ready to run.
Maybe, but it seems like a long-shot. And I would argue that what we saw in this election isn’t that voter opinions matter most, but rather that one can get away with eliminating or disregarding huge swaths of the electorate and openly cheat to win and no one will step in to stop you because no one wants to acknowledge that our democracy is sick and in trouble.
Like, Democratic politicians are scared of noting that this election was mugged and their opponents literally no longer believe in free and fair elections or do anything to prevent it, because they are holding on hope that this is somehow fixable and we’re not going to have to do hard ugly work to repair the damages that disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, and rising white nationalism have done to the ability of voters to even remotely matter and for us to still have a county that would be considered a democracy if we didn’t have a lot of money and nukes.
Those are the reasons at the heart of the matter, but just as you said, since no one wants to admit them, they might as well not be there for people who refuse to see them, let alone fix them.
What matters is the implications they CAN handle. Most Politicians wouldn’t admit to themselves, would not handle they broke democracy until it was in shambles. They CAN handle what they always did – treating their voter base as malleable sheep who will react in a specific way to a specific action in a given political climate. And this time, they are like 33% or so right, too.
I don’t believe Trump is a conservative. I still consider him to be a RINO.
I suspect the left’s fears of him are overblown, and the right are blind to what he will bring to the table.
As for his noise. I suspect the acceptance of that is a backlash against the form of “polite” that the media has been pushing for the last while. That people are tired of hyphen-Americans and other euphemisms, (or at least the ones they recognize,) and gave far more slack to Trump than he should have been able to expect. Especially considering that much of what he said was empty rhetoric. “Build a wall”, indeed.
While the Republican leadership is celebrating now, I suspect they’re in for a rude wake-up call when Trump shows his true colors with his veto pen.
Not that I voted for him. I didn’t. I voted Libertarian.
My stance exactly. Outing people(even terrible people) out of their own closet just ruins that one extra life. It’s not like they are the only homophobe in miles and taking them out saves anyone.
It puts an immediate halt to whatever anti-lgbt legislation they were fighting for, sends a shockwave amongst their supporters, and gives a breather for the rest of the community.
When you’re LGBTQ, and then get into political power and then use those powers to FUCK OVER OTHER LGBTQ people, YOU’RE FAIR GAME. They push, we shove back. They’re all but selfish traitors at that point. Why should we play nice with them?
I don’t give two shits about nice. Being ruthless and efficient is good only when it gets you what you want to achieve.
Not everyone will think your way. If you out a queer person, many queer people and their allies will be upset you did that. Many will now refuse to vote for you. The replacement for the outed canditate meanwhile could have a pristine record within the party sensibilites.
Frankly if you are willing to be a dick about it, ostensibly for the good of all, blackmail the politician with your evidence instead of outing them. Or seduce them and make them give up on the career. You’ve got so many options where you didn’t make a bitter enemy, disappointed some of the people you tried to protect, and ruined a life just since you considered it an acceptable loss.
You’re wrong and your prioritization of the comfort of bigots over the safety of the queer people they throw under the bus for their own gain is noted. There, fight over.
“You’re wrong and your prioritization of the comfort of bigots over the safety of the queer people they throw under the bus for their own gain is noted. There, fight over.”
I suppose that does indeed make the fight over. When no one actually makes the argument you claim they are making (e.g.- the fact that no one actually stated any belief in prioritizing anyone over anyone to begin with) then there can be no fight since there are literally no combatants to fight against. Sooooo….good job with that? I guess?
So the only way to not throw queer people under the bus is to throw specific queer people under the bus (thus legitimizing the use of outing and the violation of privacy as a tactic that can be used against queer people, hence throwing queer people under the bus)? Seems legit.
I think Robin forgetting that when you’re in public, people can see you is responsible for this. Robin is the most dangerous of the DeSantos, to herself and others.
Roz is not responsible for her ADULT CONGRESSWOMAN sister’s actions in any capacity. Especially not drinking herself silly and breaking into someone’s home, sleeping in their bed and then screaming sexual harassment.
She may be an indirect cause, at worst. Attacking Robin as wehemently as she did Joyce could for instance escalate her suspicions and fears about sexually liberated people.
But those suspicions and fears had to be there first.
Back when they were at the bar, lots of commentors were speculating about someone getting pictures of the fake dick-sucking or the near kiss. There’s no need to have Roz involved.
Doesn’t it seem strange that Robin is making accusations against Leslie, in Leslie’s bed, in her apartment? How dumb do you have to be to set yourself up like that?
While I’m more conflicted about the outing of anti-gay politicians, I do not share that belief that Leslie is weak or wrong for deciding that’s beyond her own moral limits. And I find blaming her for having said moral limits a bit silly to be frank.
She was likely drunk and stormed over to Leslie’s apartment to confront her. However, after persuading the landlord to let her in, she’d likely forgotten why she was ther and was feeling kind of sleepy. Why had she come here again? Let’s lie on this comfortable-looking bed and try to remember! Think, think, think! Comfy bed… Zzzzz!
It was her idea to go from a private location to a public bar. It was her idea to keep pushing past Leslie’s repeated attempts to shut down conversation and progression on whatever flirtatious thing they’ve got going on. When Leslie called her out on her crush, Robin responded being loud about sucking dicks in a manner that was always going to have folks taking out their phones.
And it was definitely Robin’s choice to ask what “messing up” looked like when Leslie tried to make her first exit.
Like, there were a lot of different ways to make sure it didn’t get to tabloid picture level and she kind of failed all of them and now will likely be caught by paparazzi leaving Leslie’s house still in last night’s clothes, thus strengthening the story.
But Robin doesn’t really do accepting consequences from her actions, which is a not uncommon professional homophobe move. I think both George Rekers and Larry Craig claimed they were entrapped when they were caught out.
Fortunately, Robin gets her suits made of Teflon(TM), from the same clothier that made suits for Reagan, Clinton, and Trump. Scandal just slides right off!
Ooooh, Robin, you make it hard to like you when you pull crap like this. I don’t really care if her alcohol soaked brain thought Leslie was part of a sting. You don’t invade someone’s home and bed and then get to yell at her or tell her not to be mad about that. Aside from how illogical it is, it just reinforced how egotistical Robin is. Her political career supersedes considering anyone else’s comfort, safety, or emotions. I didn’t want Leslie to stoop to outing her with a photo, more for Leslie’s sake than Robin’s, but I desperately want Leslie to shout or smack some sense into her and throw her out for this utter malarky.
Yup, and divorce it from the wackiness and our fond feelings of this ship in the other universe and this is a horror story.
A powerful politician personally mad at you, breaks into your home in the middle of the night to yell at you personally and accuse you of ruining her life?
Honestly, I can think of several powerful politicians that I would dearly love to have break into my home in the middle of the night to yell at me personally, instead of just spouting shit from the other end of Twitter.
Of course, I’m a big guy with a combat sports hobby and a house full of deadly weapons.
I’m just miffed murder is already considered as a possible future hereo-o
Even the sheer tackiness of the idea aside, the death of a known LGBT local would inflame the leftie vote in the Democrat’s favor. Why would they ever?
Realistically, they wouldn’t. I find the whole thing unlikely, but if anyone on Robin’s campaign is doing it, it’s going to be the one who works with her regularly, and not the minor figure she just met yesterday.
Sadly, no one cares when known queer locals die. Even when they are likely murdered for political reasons.
The bigots who do the killing end up just being “lone wolves” and a lot of nasty disparagements get thrown around about the queer person being killed over drugs or in a robbery instead in order for straight or cis society to feel better about themselves.
Fuck, there’s a huge crop of bigots who still argue that the very public and very violent lynching of Matthew Shepard was about drugs and money and that Matthew Shepard caused it.
If Leslie were to be murdered, there might be some mourning on her campus and in her gender studies class, but it would do nothing to inflame votes for liberal causes, any more than the regular hate crime murders of LGBT folks do so in our world.
Like, fuck, just think of this last year. We had the deadliest mass shooting in America in a direct hate-crime against the queer community, caused directly by hateful beliefs about the humanity of queer folks and the voting population of that state and the country responded by voting in the most openly hateful administration with regards to queer issues there is.
Our corpses do not and never will matter enough to society at large. And that’s why we need to protect ourselves and stay alive.
A) It got less empathy because it was Latinx night and so the victims were by and large not white/not treated as white and so receive less empathy for their humanity in general (Note = It’s been proven that PoC/folks of marginalized ethnicities receive less empathy from the majority).
or
B) But that was because of ‘evul Muslims!!!” and so obviously they had to vote in Trump to protect them and any rights violations will end up being worth it, and besides, TRUMP isn’t homophobic (yes he is, but his supporters pretend he’s not) so nothing TOO bad will happen, right?
Or bit of column A, bit of column B, bit of column C (not knowing or not caring about this stuff), bit of column D (Issue X is way more important than marginalized folks).
I mean, how dare these folks think they’re human and therefore deserve to live! What is up with that?
‘Our corpses do not and never will matter enough to society at large. And that’s why we need to protect ourselves and stay alive.’
You changed too many variables, here.
If in a local election (not a countrywide one, that’s removed enough) a local from a group you identify with gets bloody murdered for who they are, YOU would start to mobilize, spread the word, get more votes together. IT GUARANTEES NO VICTORY. No one ever said that. These things add up. The murder sprees had an effect, they just can’t carry you on their back when there are millions of you who live far enough to not care.
But in Robin’s case, who runs for a state-wide office, is already not that popular with her voter base for being very suspicious and tacky for a supposed family values canditate, who is unmarried and goes to bars, even a couple thousand extra votes lost and found could mean everything.
I thought it was bad enough when we could still hope that Robin was doing it out of some gravely misexpressed affection for Leslie. Like, sorry, I don’t care who you are, politician or humble plebeian, no one should enter someone’s home, let alone their BED, without permission. I hoped Robin’d be defensive today, but have a better reason than “Well, I was MAD at you, bleeeh!!!”. And Leslie would still kick her to the curb, but there would be inking that Robin wasn’t ENTIRELY dangerously stupid. Sadly, no. This is a whole new layer of wrong on top of a multi-tiered cake of wrong.
Okay, jokes over, on to the panel analysis! And then back to Patreon to finish the monthly bonuses since I only got through Jan 2015 this morning and then quit to do another thing.
Panel One: Screw you, Robin. You got her landlord to let you into her house and slept in her bed. Don’t you get pissy now that she’s mad.
And I love Leslie for not putting up with it. She may have decided outing isn’t a tool she personally is willing to use, but that doesn’t mean she has to take Robin’s bullshit either.
Panel Two: Okay, yeah, I can see why Robin is upset here. For someone who craves committed affection that doesn’t dissipate and turn toxic, that would hurt a lot. That said, she’s an asshole I’ve been exhausting my sympathy for this entire time.
Leslie seems less mad, more surprised by this panel. Probably was not expecting that.
Panel Three:Robin, stop it. You were at the bar yelling about cocks. A bar YOU INVITED LESLIE TO because you felt bad you got kicked out of class. Don’t play Nice Girl. You are a congressperson probably surrounded by press and opposition researchers, plus PR guys, at any given moment. Even if she had, that doesn’t justify you breaking and entering. I only hope Leslie doesn’t get kicked out of her apartment for being gay because of this mess.
Also – “You didn’t LIKE me” – and she should beCAUSE?
I understand she’s upset about apparently being outed, but that’s not Leslie’s fault and it’s not a free pass to come into her home uninvited and yell at her. It’s nobody’s fault except whoever took the picture and sent it in. And her blaming or ignoring Leslie for everything, including Leslie being pissed at her breaking in, is awful. The fuck, Robin?
Panel Four: Leslie’s hit hard here. She feels things deeply, and she wants them to be accepted as valid. So hearing Robin say she didn’t like her hurts. And of course it gets her to start explaining her position.
Panel Five: Leslie is nervous now. She’s got no idea what Robin means and it could be dangerous for her too. Her job or home might depend on the higher ups not knowing her orientation. If so she is screwed. And yeah, she’s a sad and annoyed over what Robin said too. That doesn’t go away.
Panel Six: Oh, Robin, you even suck at indignation. Fail. At least get your pictures up before you try to win arguments about them.
Panel Seven: Well, at least she’s been defused. And yeah, those lockscreens are the worst. I’m not surprised she needs to mutter it to herself as she does it.
Because Robin is entitled to be liked! (And lots of other things.)
Also, she craves it. Needs it. Like sugar. It might not be why she got into politics, but it’s almost certainly why she stays.
And it’s that need to be liked – by voters, and now, by this pretty teacher who makes her feel strange things inside – that leads her into all sorts of bad/weird places. (Like, the bed of that teacher, after she thinks that Leslie was sent to trap her!)
In her head, she certainly is. And it’s lead to some creepy, CREEPY places.
She may need it, but right now, she doesn’t deserve it. Not from Leslie. I almost feel bad for her, but then I remember this Robin is a shithead right now. I hope she improves, but lately I’ve been living more along the lines of ‘hope for the best, prepare for the worst’.
Yeah, that’s the part that makes this Robin a bit more unsettling. That entitlement to be liked. That she’s owed it and when someone withholds that from her, they are somehow doing her wrong. It’s… well it’s creepy as fuck.
addendum:
Once everyone (who matters) is persuaded, convinced, browbeat, etc etc (whatever it takes or works) into “liking” Robin again, then the world will have resumed its proper shape and she can go back to cruising confidently through it in her personal bubble, having quieted that needy insecure voice inside for one more day.
In that case, someone needs to remind her that couldn’t be the case because ROBIN is the one who brought LESLIE to the bar for drinks and the one who called Leslie back and asked what messing up would entail when Leslie was leaving.
That is exactly what needs to be pointed out to her, because she’s probably not being very rational at the moment.
She’s not even out to herself yet, and it sounds like she already going to be outed to the press. I have no idea what that would be like, but I can imagine it caused Robin to freak out considerably
She’s Robin. I don’t think you need the “at the moment” part. Rational is not her strong suit.
But yeah, I think it’s far more the crush than some broader feeling of entitlement. Even if she didn’t really know why it was important to her that Leslie liked her and finding out it was all a set up was devastating.
Robin’s being a D of not insignificant size, but I don’t see any sense of entitlement to be liked. When Robin says “you never liked me”, she is accusing Leslie of abusing her feelings for ulterior purposes.
Time and again Robin, having no idea what’s gone wrong between her and Leslie, starts off assuming she (Robin) was the one who did something wrong. She’s put in a lot of effort to reach out to Leslie and win her over, and never felt outraged when her efforts didn’t work. So I’m frankly baffled how one could think Robin feels entitled to be liked. She has plenty of other flaws to go around.
Because Leslie explained their problems last night. At this point, she has been told. Whether she understood them correctly doesn’t change that she’s been told and cannot plead ignorance anymore.
I’m pretty sure right now she’s, understandably, upset about being outed. That doesn’t mean she’s not being an asshole. She doesn’t get to convince Leslie’s landlord to let her in without Leslie’s permission. She doesn’t get to get pissy when Leslie is mad about it. And she certainly doesn’t get to blame things on Leslie that are not her fault and I’m hoping she’ll be reminded of that very firmly in the near future.
Leslie made clear last night that she is indeed attracted to Robin It’s just that there are other things she’s more concerned about than their attraction. Robin is correct to expect that Leslie presented herself as genuinely liking her – there’s no baseless entitlement about it. And if Leslie had been a plant, Robin would be rightly outraged at having her feelings toyed with like that.
The crap with the landlord and going in without Leslie’s permission, the passing out on Leslie’s bed, her failure to take any of that seriously and trying to supercede Leslie’s emotions with her own after doing that…that’s all on Robin.
But it has nothing to do with a sense of entitlement to be liked. That is not one of Robin’s flaws.
Leslie told her what their problems were though and exactly why they weren’t going to work out. Robin ignored and dismissed those problems all night. She also clearly was not happy with her when she left last night. Robin has a good reason to believe Leslie liked her, but Robin has no rational reason to believe Leslie is a plant – ROBIN invited her out last night. ROBIN had to get her to stay and come up to her after Leslie tried to leave. ROBIN is the one who moved from a private place to a public one. ROBIN is the one who started screaming about sucking cock in a crowded bar full of drunk idiot college students.
I don’t believe Robin is acting rationally right now – she’s upset. But that doesn’t mean she has a good reason to think Leslie’s a plant.
Again, I’m seeing a bunch of correct points I agree with but I don’t see how those points are related to a sense of entitlement to be liked.
…actually wait, I think I do. You believe that Robin thinks the only possible reason Leslie didn’t accept her advances was because Leslie was a plant? Am I understanding you right?
Because that seems totally out of character for Robin generally and contradictory with her demonstrated inward looking for fault whenever things started to fall apart between her and Leslie. The way I’m seeing it, Robin is looking at the headlines and panicking, and is furious at what she thinks (very irrationally and irresponsibly as you say) was a sting instead of what was most likely random strangers taking photos of their Congresswoman getting real intimate with Leslie in a bar.
Mostly I’m irritated she’s doing the whole ‘You never LIKED m’ thing as though she’d every given Leslie reason to. But that’s irritation, not why I think so –
While Robin does have a tendency to look inwards and figure out ‘was it something I said’, she also has a tendency to push responsibility off on other people. She doesn’t listen to what they say because that requires her to be serious and not up up up and sometimes introspection sucks. I think part of it is desperation to be liked so people don’t leave and get upset. But then I remember things where she gets annoyed people call her on her lack of tact instead of falling in line, her asking Leslie to count on her vote like she’s sure she’ll get it, or barging in to her apartment to yell at her expecting her not to be angry. Maybe a better way to put it is she thinks she’s entitled not to be opposed. But it’s definitely showing up more and more and it’s not something I like.
People calling others on their lack of tact is an inherently annoying move. It’s just sometimes necessary to prevent greater harm, and the receiver has to judge for themselves whether to heed the warning.
Asking Leslie about her vote was a fallback line that Robin used when, as you say, she got desperate for Leslie’s approval in any form.
And maybe it’s just me, but I don’t interpret “you don’t get to be angry” as a literal expectation no matter who uses it. I’ve always seen it as someone saying that their grievances are so much greater than the other party’s that it would be absurd and unseemly for the other party to express that anger. Robin obviously (wrongly) thinks her grievances are the greater. Angry people tend to think like that, especially if they’re already naturally self-centered like Robin.
100% agreement on Robin’s lack of sense of responsibility. It’s vexing and it feels absurd that she’s in any position of power.
Well I mean she states in comic that she thought Leslie was a plant who used homo mind-control rays to make her confuzzled about her attractions, because that’s easier to believe for her than she was attracted to a nice hot college teacher, hit on her in public, and said college teacher broke it off because of her long history of bigoted actions against the queer community.
And she’s kind of been treating Leslie extremely shallowly, not really listening when she got real, pushing against boundaries when she tried to set them, and deciding that Leslie doesn’t have a right to be angry about B&E because Robin has anger about something that was her fault to begin with.
I don’t know what flavor of entitlement it is, but it is at least the entitlement to believe her own conspiracy theory view of the world should always be prioritized. That it’s okay for queer folks to suffer and die if it gets her re-elected, that Leslie should overlook said history of bigotry to sleep with her on the down-low, and that her own whims should trump Leslie’s stated boundaries.
It’s treating Leslie and the other constituents as props in the play of her life rather than actual people with actual lives.
And it gets into what Granny Weatherwax talked about with regards to the evil of treating people like things.
Mmm….self-centered delusions of grandeur? Robin has a diet version of whatever Galasso and Sydney have – reality doesn’t easily penetrate their bubble of how they see the world. But where Galasso and Sydney’s delusions are mostly played for laughs, Robin’s takes a cutting edge because when things go wrong Robin is less able to cope with it. We saw something similar happen in Shortpacked when Robin blamed Leslie for everybody else moving out.
It can be, but in this case it involved comments to a dead soldier’s family. At that point, it’s not ‘justifiable lack of tact to get things done’, it’s ‘being an asshole’ flavour lack of tact. I think that’s a time it’s justifiable to complain about it. Kind of like it’s one thing to bluntly state a problem to spur on action to solve it, and another to keep yammering on and on about the fun weekend you had with your grandma to your friend who’s grandmother just died.
I think we’ll have to chalk this up to different readings. I’m starting toes that kind of entitlement, though faintly, and it unsettles me. You don’t see it and that’s cool.
“Mostly I’m irritated she’s doing the whole ‘You never LIKED m’ thing as though she’d every given Leslie reason to.”
Er… the thing is, “reason” or not, Leslie actually did like her. So whatever signals Robin thinks she sent were real. She damn well knows she didn’t give her any reason to like her, and we’re right now hearing her alternate theory on why she acted like she liked her.
Yes, Leslie does like her. We know that. Robin is being irrational right now because she’s either upset or because she’s Robin and what even is rationality. I’m talking about this in isolation. It’s something that irritated me, personally, only in isolation. In context, yeah, Robin’s right that Leslie did like her and, yes, pretending she liked her would be hurtful. That said, Leslie not liking her would be 500000% justified, even if faking it wouldn’t be.
Your panel 3 analysis makes me think that this might be the biggest objection she actually has. Like, yeah, she quickly segues into conspiracy theories of queer seductive conversion, but I think that’s the real queer Robin talking for a second.
She likes Leslie and thought Leslie liked her back and that spoke deeper to her than all the other blathery mouth movements Leslie made. So believing she was a secret plant hurts her, because part of her wants Leslie to like her as much as she likes Leslie.
And it’s also part of why Panel 4 Leslie is so sad, because she communicated her attraction and why she couldn’t act on it. And this is one more sign that Robin didn’t listen for a second to her, to the actually important parts, instead focusing only on the shallowest portion and spinning it to fit her conspiracy theories to protect her self-image.
Panel 1: Okay, I loved Robin/Leslie in the other universe and part of me would love to see these two come together more as equals and for Robin to have a big redemption arc, but holy fuck is this a nasty starting point for Robin to be coming from.
Like, the context for this bit of ego is staggering. She’s admitted now to breaking into Leslie’s room in the middle of the night while Leslie is sleeping simply because she was mad at Leslie. And she believes her anger not only justifies all these violations of boundaries, but also means Leslie is not allowed to show justified outrage at having a powerful congressperson literally commit Breaking and Entering against her.
And it’s the twisted form of the “my lesbian” thing from yesterday. In the other universe it was kinda cute because it was what Robin used to avoid admitting she was in a queer-platonic relationship with Leslie. But here? It’s a sign of believed ownership. Robin thinks Leslie is hers to order around as needed.
And she still believes that after everything Leslie stated to her and all the boundaries she tried to draw and emphasize.
And this is especially heart-breaking as well because all Robin is taking away is this invented grievance rather than the real and painful way that Leslie poured out her pain and history and really reached out to Robin’s core self and tried to appeal to her better nature.
And that’s resonant for me, because it reminds me of fights with my parents where all manner of real grievances and painful bullshit were swept under the carpet in favor of focusing on how “I was rude” to be trying to point these things out or how my very existence was hurting the family.
Panel 2 and first half of Panel 3: I like how upright Leslie is. She’s got a strong moral foundation that carries her through. She couldn’t sleep with a homophobe even if her body craved it, she couldn’t help reaching out to a baby queer and giving them good life advice even if she’s a dangerous bigot, she couldn’t out a fellow queer person personally, and now she can’t lie to Robin even though she would be fully in her rights to.
In her mind, Roz did set her out to seduce Robin and so even though its not the conspiracy theory Robin is revving up, Leslie fesses up and confesses to that piece even if it’ll give ammunition to an angry stalker whose broken into her home and likely has very public positive statements with regards to guns and firearms and “showing toughness to enemies”.
Like, this is a choice that could cost Leslie her life here, but she has her moral lines and she won’t cross them.
Panel 3: “You just did your gay stuff all over me”.
And this is what the whole outing debate really gets down to. The pervasive belief among homophobes that gays are inherently sexy and seductive and thus must be barred from employment or teaching or existing in public lest innocent kids be seduced into “sinful lifestyles”.
Outing bigots and showing that the ones most obsessed with gay folks are often on the down-low as well, that those who claim they are ex-gay are still just as queer as they were before changed the power the bigots had and made the common rejoinder to someone arguing that gays recruit into “oh, so you think they could ‘recruit’ you?”.
Whether people think it was right or wrong, that changed the game in a lot of ways as far as the public discussion on queer issues.
And it reduced the strength and persuasiveness to latent bisexuals in the population (ones who might never use the term but have that one story of that time in college or who remark on the sexiness of that one same-gendered actor or artist) who viewed their attractions and their idle musings on what it would feel like as signs of demonic infiltration by evil homosexuals trying to overwrite their “godly orientation”.
And it says a lot that that’s what Robin is clinging to in order to deny her own bisexuality/queerness. That this attraction is the result of poisonous duplicity from evil homos rather than something in-born, unchangeable, and a part of her.
And I hope that she is able to see past this and recognize that it wasn’t Manley or Leslie who mad her queer. That this isn’t something inflicted upon her from the outside, but something inherent to herself.
And because Leslie is the person she is, I imagine Leslie will try and reach out and help her, even though Robin is creepily breaking into her home and accusing her of secret homo ray conversion*.
*Interestingly enough, this is also what homophobes use to justify “conversion therapy” and the abuses and violence that occurs within them (and certainly the incredibly high death rate within them by suicide). Because the queers “converted” first with their “propaganda”, so they are just “setting it right” again quid pro quo.
Panel 4: And Leslie has been mad, but this accusation, it must sting like hell and you see that in her sad eyebrow. Like, this is the sort of bullshit that underlay the reasons her parents kicked her out of the house. And this accusation of “conversion” through seduction is an accusation thrown at gay people a lot in the public sphere.
And even more so when one is a queer teacher. There’s a lot of beliefs that every time a student comes out it is because of queer indoctrination in the classroom rather than something inherent in the kid. Because that’s easier to believe.
And it stings all the more because her feelings were very genuine. She lusted after Robin, she crushed after her, and she fought against that real attraction to set boundary after boundary to avoid the exact sort of trainwreck Robin is accusing her of.
What we’re seeing in this panel is a personal tragedy.
Yeah that’s about the extent of nonsense I expected.-. Not the KIND, as I do not have the kind of no doubt dish detergent induced nerve damage required to predict Robin’s actions farther than a second into the future, but extent, yes.
This is Robin at her very worst, doubling down rather than admit responsibility and diverting the guilt to another (political) party.
Hopefully it ends better and this is the low point. I reckon 50/50.
I don’t think she’s even mad about the imagined conspiracy, I think she’s hurt because of the line in panel three. “You NEVER liked me!” That is an expression of hurt and rejection, not righteous indignation.
I mean, Robin is terrible at personal responsibility and we see that, turning to conspiracy theories and blame (ideally on someone less powerful than her) to deflect any real self-reflection.
We see that in the contempt her aide as for her because of how she blames him for not adequately “managing” her many fuck-ups. We saw that in her deflections of Joyce’s question about the anti-queer bill she tried to pass. We saw that in her massive detours and deflections when Leslie told of how anti-gay legislation has affected her personally in the past. And we see it now with Robin blaming an evening that has always been driven by Robin’s insistence on the very recalcitrant and restrained Leslie.
I imagine there very much are photographs of that close head near-embrace, because well, Robin made it nearly impossible for there not to be. Her outfit is very noteworthy and bright, she’s well-known and went to a local bar likely to be filled with young folks with no love to spare for their bigoted congressperson. One in fact that was super crowded knowing how it would look to be with a visibly queer teacher.
And then she loudly ranted about how she wasn’t gay and how she loved dick and pantomimed sucking cock (which is definitely going to get some cell-phones in the air to record the trainwreck) before interrupting Leslie’s attempted escape to push the point on what “messing up beyond the point of no return” looked like and nearly kissing her before Leslie broke it off for the last time.
Like, not to victim-blame, but there were definitely always going to be pictures of that moment, regardless of anything else. And someone with more self-awareness would recognize that and focus more on getting out ahead of the issue rather than breaking and entering to yell at the person who tried to head-off the runaway coach before it went over the gorge.
And the worst part is that Leslie knew this end would come to Robin at some point, that this barely held together closet of hers would crumble down not only hurting her but others in its destruction.
And I imagine Leslie will face at least some heat, if not from the school, certainly from Robin’s anti-gay fanbase who will likely see Leslie as Robin does here, as a seducer working for Manley to discredit their “warrior for God”.
Leslie is likely to be getting a lot of harassment for a long time, more so if Robin decides to throw Leslie under the bus and blame her for entrapment rather than be honest about her attractions.
Also – this bar is close enough to the dorms that one can easily walk back. It’s the same one Sal and Jason were at roughly a week and a half ago. He ended up carrying Sal’s drunk ass home. So yeah, student bar. Students who’d love a hilarious video like that. And love pics of their Congressperson macking on a lady. I bet they were up online by the time Leslie got home.
I was hoping the thing would be to do with Ryan. Because while “Yo landlord dude lemme into your tenant’s apartment, she’ll be totally sweet with it, we were talking about someone tonight and she wanted to know as soon as I had details, she’ll totes be cool okay?” at least has a degree of hope mixed into the awful, this is just so many steps backwards.
And it’s not just the school and Robin’s fanbase to worry about: the landlord knows about the thing because the photos are in the news, and was okay with letting her in so the two perves could yell it out and arrrrrrrggghh *incoherent rage*
So I am guessing this is the ‘thing’ that motivated the landlord to let her into the apartment. Photographic evidence of having (almost) made out with the tenant the same night is not really a valid reason for letting a previously unknown person into the apartment without notice… But it’s not quite as bad as some of the scenarios considered. Kinda. A little.
Actually, that makes it feel worse. Like, having pictures of having previously made-out doesn’t mean that they are at all invited to one’s place or bed and the fact that her landlord apparently believes one moment of intimacy is an invitation for all that is… eee, not good.
Yeah, and as someone who’s had a stalker and has been in relationships with folks who had abusive/vengeful exes, this is the sort of stuff of nightmares and why I lock my door of a night.
I agree with you that it is vastly insufficient as there are a significant number of reasons Leslie could (and does) not want Robin in her apartment, many of them much more dire than the relatively simple Robin-has-not-earned-that-right that is the case here.
That being said… “Let me into Leslie Bean’s apartment for no stated reason, or some wild claim I can’t prove” or “Let me into Leslie Bean’s apartment because you recognize me from TV” or the like… Well, that just widens the field even more, from undesirable ex’s and currents, to them PLUS literally anyone you’ve never even seen before.
It also leaves open a door for there being well-intentionedness (albeit clueless-to-the-point-of-negligence well-intentionedness) on the landlord’s part that a simple conversation could clear up. Mind you, there shouldn’t NEED to be a conversation, as “don’t let people I don’t preapprove into my apartment” should not have to be a special request, but…
Of all the possible bad reasons, this seems like a potentially fixable bad reason, which I view as preferable to unfixable.
(likely there’s also some level of sexism involved, as “obviously” a woman “can’t” be an abusive ex. Which does not improve anything any, but I’m mentioning it)
Cultural difference obviously. In Germany, the only case a landlord is allowed to enter your premises without prior notice is when something affecting the whole house is up (like a drain broke and it’s leaking into your downstairs neighbor’s apartment). They cannot claim a key to all your locks.
I believe that first part is also the law in many places in the US. But not the locks part. But your lease may contain a clause about entry for routine maintenance like pest control spraying.
I can see what you’re getting at with regards to cluelessness, but the reason I blame the landlord more than Robin given what we know is that anyone can *ask* to be let in. But if the landlord answers the door it is always the landlord’s job not to let that person in until their entry is cleared by the tenant. The better case scenarios for Robin leave her with some embarrassing stories and apologies to make. The better case scenarios for the landlord still involve a clear and extremely worrying breach of duty that could very well endanger property, life and limb.
Well, sure, but what’s Leslie going to do about it? She can be denied housing for being gay – what’s she going to do against the landlord who lets her stay? Complain? Not unless she has a backup place to go.
That depends on what crock-o-bull story Robin told him. “See! I’m her girlfriend! This proves it!”
Of course, this will blow up in Robin’s face; he’s already commented on every article with the picture – “It’s all true, I saw her arriving at the woman’s apartment tonight! I bet they’re doing the deed right now!”
Reality is defined by those who shout the loudest and social media has a loud, loud voice indeed. By the point Leslie reaches her office today, it will be common knowledge that she’s Robin’s girlfriend and that they spent last night having hot, sweaty sex. Any statement of denial from Robin and/or Leslie will be treated with smug, patronising and knowing looks and be discounted with an airy gesture and a comment of “Well, she would say that, wouldn’t she?”
Yeah, I thought that there would be photographs of what most people would interpret as a date. I’d remind Robin that she was the one who asked Leslie out but, being Robin, she’s busy rewriting her memories to make the outcome Leslie’s fault.
So, either Robin subscribes to the ancient and all-but-extinct old wives’ tale that homosexuality is somehow ‘contagious’ or (and this is far more likely) its another mile marker she’s passing during her journey down Deriver Denial about the way her own mind works. I can’t help but wonder if, even at this late date, she’s still parroting the words from Frieda or Aide’s mouths?
I get the feeling that there was more to Roz’s plan than she let on to, or otherwise this is pure coincidence.
Either way, as people were saying the last few days, the repercussions are probably going to be a lot worse for Leslie than for Robin.
I kinda feel this might be part of Roz’s plan, as she does not think the repercussions through for other people. She probably thought “Everyone knows that Leslie is Gay, so her being seen engaging in gay stuff is not going to effect her!”. But these photos might very well lead to her being fired, for creating a political scandal than could be associated with the college.
So, let the readers give their opinion! In your view, will this mini-arc will end with:
1) Leslie comforting a hysterical Robin, who is sure that her political career is over (not without reason) and there is a sad kiss that both regret for different reasons;
2) Robin threatens to destroy Leslie for ‘doing that gay stuff to ruin me’ and storms out;
3) Leslie throws Robin out after telling her that it’s her own fault for courting the homophobe vote and that she should have realised that this would make her vulnerable to a stunt like this;
4) Robin raves on for a while, describing Leslie in increasingly sexualised and romantic terms before pausing and whispering: “Oh my god, I do like girls!”
Because people should restrict themselves in mates of roughly equal value by some arbitrary system you made up, instead of finding love or at least compatibility or something.
WE KNOW these two would be happy together in a vacuum. We saw it a continuity ago. If Robin improves steadily enough, they will be probably together again.
And if not, that’s fine too, but it’s for LESLIE to decide what she likes in people, not you. She had been told what to like and what to not like QUIE ENOUGH, I think. Lay both of them off, already.
Except she’s fictional. We absolutely CAN criticize her decisions if we are so inclined.
I still ship these two, but if it doesn’t feel like Robin has actually earned whatever redemption she gets AND happens between them, I’m not going to enjoy it. I have confidence that won’t end up being the case for me, but Robin has been adding to the pile of things she needs to make up for far more than she’s been subtracting.
Leslie DOES deserve someone better. The improved Robin you describe dies not exist yet. Even if/when she does, she’ll still be understandably tainted by her past actions such that not everyone will be happy about it.
I expected the ‘it is fiction’ line brought up in the matter.
Fact is we could use the same line of reasoning to say ‘she is fictional, therefore the morality of her actions do not matter’.
Anything they do ONLY matter to us since we DECIDE they matter. Otherwise they are completely irrelevant. I decide to be invested in them, and Emily herself seems pretty invested, too. Criticizing them, too, is a form of investment, which you CAN do. I’m not saying you can’t. I’m saying that particular criticism is on unstable grounds, to say the least.
“Leslie DOES deserve someone better. The improved Robin you describe dies not exist yet. Even if/when she does, she’ll still be understandably tainted by her past actions such that not everyone will be happy about it.”
And once again, as I said, it is up to Leslie to decide whether she draws the line above or below Robin as far as her values go. She seems like a pretty reasonable person overall. Impulsive of late, maybe, but by far one of the most levelheaded characters in this comic.
Can we just trust her she will make a valid choice until she actually fucks up, at least?
Being invested in the characters does not magically grant them agency separate from how they are written.
The “unstable grounds” you’re talking about are ridiculous. BenRG posed the question of what people wanted to happen, in the future. Emily answered. You complained about her answer on the grounds that we should respect a fictional character’s choices.
So no, it is not possible to both answer a question about hypothetical future events AND “wait until she actually fucks up”.
“Being invested in the characters does not magically grant them agency separate from how they are written.”
Neither does it grant them agency to be better people than how they are written. Which is to say, they have no choice over the matter, and we should not judge them unless it is varranted.
“BenRG posed the question of what people wanted to happen, in the future. Emily answered. You complained about her answer on the grounds that we should respect a fictional character’s choices.”
That is not the context in which my post was written.
Emily didn’t just answer, she has declared two of the choices to be automatically bad ones, as if we had insights into Leslie’s (fictional) priorities aside from what we beyond the fourth wall have seen. What we HAVE seen in this universe and the previous one points towards that whether she “deserves” better or not is moot, since Leslie, the character written by a guy and not a live person, does not care about that all that much.
She declared her opinion. Your reaction to basically dismiss the very grounds for having that opinion, then make an argument that could just as easily be used to invalidate ANY opinions about the characters choices.
Hell, even if we were talking about REAL people, “she deserves someone better” is a completely acceptable opinion. If you actually take action to sabotage someone’s relationship because you think they deserve better, THAT would be shitty. THAT would warrant a “well that isn’t your decision to make” lecture.
Now, now, if I thought she stated just an opinion I wouldn’t have cared.
As I saw she has no doubt in her mind whatsoever that Robin is objectively terrible, what with her stating she is the mud of the earth so dismissively, to everybody who would express even the most cautious preference towards Robin in the last few days.
I could have read that wrong! But only she can confirm whether she sees that as an opinion or not.
That is an opinion that she and anyone else who shares it is completely entitled to have. Robin has done a lot of horrible things to deserve it.
If you were simply disagreeing, expressing a contrary opinion, or even arguing that Robin isn’t that bad, I would have no issue with it.
But you keep acting like other people’s opinions need to be vetted by you, and you keep acting like they aren’t valid. You are being dismissive as hell. The fact that you’re being so dismissive of real people because you think they’re being too dismissive of a fictional character is precisely what I took issue with.
We know different versions of these characters can be happy together, one’s we’ve seen hints at in this universe.
But it’s worth noting that while the other Robin was impulsive, closeted, and fearful of admitting how strong her attraction for Leslie was, she did not have a history of being an anti-gay politician and in fact, mostly had a problem of being a fetishist regarding attraction between men.
As such, this Robin and this Leslie have a steep hill to climb and given the amount of boundary violations and wrong-doing Robin has engaged in, I’d like to see a lot more growth and awareness before they jump into any sort of romantic relationship.
I’d like to, too. Should I have specified the timeframe? I just assume people will be nice and don’t immediately think I said bollocks.
On the different version topic, though, are they all that different? Leslie is all but the same, with a better job and more passionate for the LGBTQ cause as a whole. Robin is all but the same, except for everything you listed, which is a rather minor part of her personal character – it was completely and outspokenly admitted to Leslie she only did it just to pander to her voter base.
If she stopped at any point in time, Robin would be in a better position already than Shortpacked! Robin was.
The policies she supports would kill people. Yes, it would be even more awful if she explicitly believed that LGBT people deserved to die, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t still messed up that she thinks getting a few votes justified trying to remove the few protections they have.
If you kill someone accidentally through carelessness, it isn’t murder, but it’s still manslaughter. The lack of intent means you’ll get a lesser sentence, not that you haven’t committed a crime.
Hmm, well with regards to the are they different argument, I would argue that they are very different.
Leslie in the other universe worked retail and was impoverished but still seemed to have contact and a relationship with her rich parents and didn’t seem to spend any time on the street homeless. She also had much less self-respect and was willing to devote endless hours of her time and devotion in service to what was in her universe a real-life superhero albeit a closeted one with impulsive habits that were occasionally hurtful and destructive.
This Leslie does not have that same origin. She was fully disowned by her family and lived on the streets doing what she needed to survive and watched other queer youth starve and die in front of her. She also has much more self-respect and awareness of the issues that affect her.
And Robin… well, we saw Robin the politician in the other universe and she never actually supported anything too rancid and seemed to have a strong empathy streak that was only hampered by her impulsivity and seemed to take criticisms seriously.
This Robin is not that Robin. She’s not a superhero with a history of saving the world. She’s just a young politician who has supported hateful legislation and not even out of principle, but simply because she thinks that the votes of bigots matters more than the lives of queer folks. She’s openly hostile to showing empathy for others because she doesn’t like handling guilt and is presuming major intimacies that don’t exist and has a habit of pushing regularly against boundaries in a more realistic setting where that is less cute and more dangerous stalker.
And that’s a big deal. Like, I have a lot of positive feelings about this ship and part of em is rooting for it, but it’s worth noting that this Robin and Leslie are vastly different and where Robin is different matters especially where it being a more realistic setting makes those actions that are more similar more disturbing.
And these aren’t minor issues. As Fart Captor notes, her stated policies threaten the lives of queer folks and make it harder for them to survive and her defenses of that treat homeless queer youth like Leslie used to be like a meaningless buzzing noise to be ignored simply because they are not as important as the votes of bigots and Robin’s clean conscience.
This Robin does not yet respect Leslie as a human being, as seen by her showing no respect to Leslie’s boundaries and treating her as “my lesbian” despite Leslie showing nowhere near the level of interest and obsession she did in the other universe and where she has stated openly how Robin’s identity as a political bigot bothers her.
As such, any relationship opened at this stage would be openly abusive towards Leslie and dangerously toxic. She might still jump at it, because no one is immune from bad decisions, but I don’t want to see a ship that’s just Leslie betraying her conscience and being in constant turmoil with a girlfriend who is in nowhere near the right space to respect her.
I want, if these two are to get together, to have them approach as equals and for Robin to acknowledge and own how her past has hurt Leslie and those like her.
And on a separate note, it bothers me that the bigotry of her vote keeps getting dismissed as a minor issue. And it’s because of how it ties to a larger issue I’ve been noticing in America at the moment after the election.
And that’s how bigoted laws that actively affect people and politics are treated as meaningless distractions no more important than who’s someone’s favorite sports-ball team. And thus we shouldn’t hold one’s politics against them, especially if they are not held in earnest but rather in tribal identity.
But this is a toxic idea, largely because it’s not a game. Politics do matter. I’m struggling to keep myself and others alive because of the political situation in America and the rise of fascism means seeing a lot of my friends being harassed by literal nazis and their apologists who think they own the world now. And I’m genuinely scared that I might not survive the next X years of a Trump presidency.
I do know that not everyone I know and have mentored will survive it and I already lost one of the one’s I mentored the night he got elected.
Votes and politics matter. And having them treated like a meaningless game is what’s allowed us to get to a point where eliminationism and word-games about harassment and abuse are just part of the “normal” political dialogue and that has direct effects on whether or not I get to survive or not.
Robin’s politics in her fictional world matter, and while I would struggle with whether to out someone like Robin in our world, I would definitely not respect anyone who slept with her with her history of killing queer kids by proxy out of bullshit political expediency.
And so I can’t cheer the current ship until that is changed and acknowledged on Robin’s part and she knocks off the creepy stalker shit.
I’m wondering of Roz took the photos and is the one responsible for their publication – She’s going to ‘out’ her sister no matter what; even if it causes Leslie harm.
That sounds highly unlikely. For all Roz knows, her plan failed when Leslie booted Robin from class. She had no way of knowing they’d be at a bar later that day, much less when or where.
Robin is a member of Congress who was in a bar shouting about how much she loved sucking cocks. That alone would have drawn enough attention for there to be people taking photos of what happened next
Is Roz even old enough to go into a bar? I thought she was 18, and my understanding is that bars near college campuses are pretty strict about that (Indiana has a law that people under 21 aren’t allowed in bars or liquor stores even if they’re not buying alcohol; other states may not.)
Man, that’s really gonna sting when Leslie sees the photos and bursts out laughing. Robin did drag her to a public place and then perform certain actions in a cloud of cell phones.
Newer reader, gone back through the archives. I feel like I’m missing something. What is Leslie’s attraction to Robin based on? Celebrity crush? The only previous interaction seems to be the *first* time Robin came to the gender studies class, and iirc Leslie’s attraction was already in bloom.
Can we have a comic where it’s just Leslie and her bi having a good time and there is no closets and no power imbalances and they just talk about Steven Universe and A?
Also I said that cuz that’s pretty much what I was doing with my life a few weeks ago, but alone. Except when I forced my dad to watch sens8 mostly so he’ll see a story with a trans person and see that they are people. That’s for… the future… and it had unidentified results. He started purposely misgendering Nomi right after that episode with her mother and I sorta flipped my shit at him, then after about an hour of what was essentially an angry gender studies class (where there were also stuff about me being bi that he is not over it) he still watched more episodes… so that I think is optimistic, but he’s kinda hard to read on that sort of stuff
Alright, so…. all of our aggressive moralizing was for nought and Robin is back to being an ass– Indeed, probably 75% more of an ass than she was when she last ass’d.
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up up down down left right left right B A start
JINX
up up down down left right left right B A select start
Right? I mean, correct? With the “select”…?
I select yours.
up up down down left right left right B A seduce WAITAMINUTE lemme try this again
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A slipshine
The code itself ends at the A.
“Start” and “Select Start” are respectively for beginning the game, or switching to two-player mode and then beginning the game.
So what we can infer here is that butts played solo and Barf Ninjason played co-op.
Really? I thought the code was
Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right A B?
I would be so fucking hopeless with a lock-screen like that. If I ever, y’know, owned a mobile phone. 😛
Xyzzy!
FROTZ ME
It’s true, I only ever used it to beat Contra with my dad and/or little brother
Tryin’ to unlock your heart…
From years of walls, and when Hyrule falls
I’m hoping that the things I do are working to connect with you.
(I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who thought of this)
That song pops into my head in SO MANY contexts.
I’m pretty sure the Konami code only screws their PR more these days.
Rule for life, kids: NEVER use the Konami Code to lock your phone.
Wait, or is it ALWAYS use the Konami Code to lock your phone?
Never. That’s basically a geekier version of setting your password to “password”.
Nah, setting your password to “password” is so obvious-but-clever most ignore it.
It’s the geekier version of setting your password to 12345.
My password is totally 12345^^vvAB54321
WHAT
it isn’t up up down down left right left right…??? WASTED OPPORTUNITY
ahaha YESSSS
Wait, that’s the combination a gamer would have on their luggage!
(mental note: change the combination on my luggage)
I guess there just isn’t a market anymore for Spaceballs: the Reference.
Maybe I’m missing your sarcasm, but I prefer keeping with a character rather than throwing in the Konami Code as a meme.
“maybe I’m missing your sarcasm”
What is this the code for?
A lot of games, most of them made by Konami. It’s become a meme in its own right
I was thinking more “And if that doesn’t work, try spelling the alphabet.”
With your tongue, though.
It’s the Konami Code, the mother of all old school cheat codes.
I meant the one in comic.
the swipe pattern she’s supposed to draw to unlock the phone…?
Yeah, I was wondering if that was a reference as well.
Searching finds a BYGays page that offers ← ← → ← ↑ ↓ ↑ as a way to find out more about DC’s queer nightlife scene. Coincidence?
Probably. It’s only the one webpage and I don’t really even understand what they are asking you to push. But Robin is kind of undefinably queer and kind of undefinably DC, so it could just be the most obscure reference of all time…
I guess the only way to tell is to look for other really obscure references everywhere in Dumbing of Age, and maybe Willis’s other works as well. I’ll need to buy some tacks and string.
I’ll get out the chalkboard I was using earlier this week.
6031769
Maybe. But then we saw a dinosaur movie reference in the mouth of fundamentalist Ross, and it worked out, albeit with some light lampshading about whether it was coincidental.
I actually think it would be perfectly in character for Robin to choose that code.
Robin: Behold!
Leslie: Your system needs an update.
Robin: Damn, wait a minute…Okay, Behold!
Leslie: Lock screen again.
Robin: Shit. Behold?
Leslie: Someone wants to play Farmville?
Robin: FUCK.
That’s approaching Sydney Yus levels of dramatic failure
And then it turns out Robin has one of those alarm apps that makes you do math problems to shut it off.
Couldn’t one just double press home and then swipe up to force shutdown the app? (At least on iPhone, don’t know how it works on Android but I’d be shocked if it didn’t have a similar procedure built-in)
I think everyone in the Dumbiverse uses Ruttech Zoomers. (Presumably they run on Gynoid.)
SUCH A THING EXISTS?? *frantically searches app store*
EEEE IT DOES EXIST *installs them all*
Santa: They DO exist!
*faints*
I had one of those but every time it went off I’d just delete the app off my phone.
It never worked for me. If I selected the easier math levels, it was too easy and I’d do it and go right back to sleep. If I made it too hard, I would be too groggy to think, too sleepy eyed to see properly, and I would just get frustrated and restart my phone then go back to sleep.
The trick to getting me fully wake up is to get me to originate coherent speech. Dunno if there’s an app for that.
Poor communication kills possible friendships
There’s something so plaintive about seeing Robin burst out with “You never LIKED me!” Obviously many people like her, she’s a successful politician, but they don’t exactly know the real her, do they? And she’s smart enough to know that it’s generally not the smart people who like her– she sort of said that to Les when she told her that college professors didn’t. She wants a more meaningful regard than that– which is a big part of what love is– but even face to face with Leslie like this, the odds seem stacked against her ever, ever getting it, at least not unless she renounces the entire life she’s built.
The tragedy almost, but not quite, outweighs the ridiculousness of her being so angry with Leslie that she… crawls into her bed and sleeps quietly so as not to disturb her. SOMEHOW THIS MAKES PERFECT SENSE AND ALSO PROVES SHE IS STRAIGHT.
SHE NEVER LIKED ME!
“Get paranoid, Robin!” “Get really paranoid!”
Robin: It was sexual entrapment!
Leslie: It was nothing like that
Robin: You tried to use your wicked wiles on me!
Leslie: What are wicked wiles?
Robin: I don’t know, but I’m agin’ ’em!
Robin: You tried to LESBIAN me!!
Leslie: I – b- ‘Lesbian’ is NOT A VERB!!
Robin: Exiern says it is.
Leslie: …
…
… Dammit, I love that comic.
Stop verbing nouns!
Verbing weirds language.
Correct! I couldn’t remember the quote….
…. okay, my gut tells me that outing via tweeted barroom photos and tabloids is LESS contentious than what Leslie was about to do, but I can’t put my finger on WHY.
There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a bar, nor do the press have any personal connection that would give the sense of betrayal.
But Robin doesn’t have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the home she just invaded, and also no (reasonable) sense of personal connection with Leslie to be betrayed.
Public behavior vs. private behavior? Leslie not being responsible for the actions of the general public? Any number of reasons, I should think.
I think your gut might be an asshole. That… might lead to some indigestion.
No, he’s right, as mentioned by others, there are a lot of reasons that what Leslie almost did (but didn’t, which is also very important to note) is worse than what the press actually did.
That said, doing something like that is still worse than thinking about doing anything.
Like I said two days ago, if Leslie used *that* photo from *that* situation, it wouldn’t had worked. Questions of consent come up at worst and questions of ‘entrapment’ come up at ‘best’. The Republicans would turn it around and damage Leslie more. Robin can easily say ‘I was drunk! I was misled!’ or even add ‘She raped me!’, and the Republicans will gobble it up because it gives them a chance to paint liberals as uncaring hypocrites (especially due to the ongoing discourse on consent).
And even if she doesn’t go that way, Robin can still damage Leslie because Leslie is outing *herself* at the time and attacking a Congresswoman. There are already cases of ‘outing’ homophobic senators and political figures which can be extremely dubious and should be avoided because it hurts the cause for gay rights than helping.
So when Leslie deleted the photo, that was the ‘right’ thing to do, at least in the long run. Robin has to fully, coherently, and 100% consentually engage in the gays if to be exposed. Something like cruisin’ for a lovin’ type deal(which already happens to some homophobes), not a drunk bar afternight deal.
It’s not being used to coerce actions she didn’t want, it was a planned attack to implicate her as a hypocrite and plant the seeds of doubt among her bigoted supporters that she was gay. It was also a bar, an open and public place
The only bad thing was the second part, and that was our side doing the dirty politics, so they’re just doing what they have to to make the world a better place in the cesspit of our politics, which makes it completely okay!
That second part’s also pretty clearly not true, though.
Is there a reasonable expectation of privacy in the bed of someone whose house you broke in to?
Yes, but that’s usually for getting away with crimes.
They’re quite contentious in their own right.
I, for one, am no fan of the paparazzi’s habit (and the tabloids indulgence of said habit) that a celebrity having a drink with someone is somehow news. Robin is almost certainly right that this is a politically-motivated act. The only mistake she’s making is believing that Leslie was consciously involved in this.
First of all, Leslie didn’t choose to go get drunk with Robin in public. That was Robin’s idea.
Second of all, Robin made a pretty big scene in denying she was even possibly other than ruler straight. Especially when she got to miming oral sex.
Odds of someone looking up, going, “Hey, isn’t that Senator Desanto raving like a lunatic?”, and snapping a picture were pretty good, all things considered.
Robin’s idea, but Leslie did choose to go.
*plays J. Geil’s Band’s “Freeze Frame” on the hacked Muzak*
“Lockscreen Drama” is the name of my next whiny love songs band.
Robin, accusing someone of doing their ‘gay stuff’ all over her after deciding to pass out in bed with said ‘gay stuff’ person.
Hey, everyone knows that gay people are part-succubi and emit irresistible homo rays that draw in straight people into immoral lifestyles through the intensity of their smouldering sexiness…
And I wish that was more hyperbole rather than what a lot of anti-gay politicians and groups verbatim believe.
My headcanon is that the reason these people also don’t believe in evolution is because they would much rather call themselves hetero sapiens.
I sometimes like to make my students squirm when I’m talking about heterogenous versus homogenous genotypes, by going over one and asking what they think the other is named. I do a similar thing when I get to cis vs trans isomers. Gets them thinking about the shared origins of words.
And the awesome benefit is one of my queer students remembered the genotypes from then on as “the queer one” and “the other one”. 😀
See, this is why representation in education matters.
Omg are you a bio teacher too? I just started my first year that’s awesome. And forgive me for asking but didn’t you mention in past posts you were trans? If so how are you able to be a teacher and out. I don’t want to lose my job and that’s part of why I don’t transition. Sorry for bothering you 🙂
Yup! And yeah, I teach bio, chem, forensics, anatomy, and calculus for the most part.
And I am both trans and out. And the being out was fraught, unfortunately, and I got thrown out of at least one job for being trans and I suspect it was responsible for some suspiciously locked doors on some other jobs in the industry (there does seem to be a creepy attitude in education that trans=sex and therefore trans+kids needs to be stopped at all costs).
And I even recloseted myself for a bit to survive as I needed my employment so I can understand being terrified of being out and transitioning.
But overall, I found I couldn’t take not being out and when I was able to get hormones and when I was able to be out and proud in my job, I was a lot less depressed and I didn’t feel miserable all the time.
Ultimately what made the decision for me the last time I came out was there was a little trans boy that came to the school who thought he was all alone at the school. And I felt I needed to be out for him, so he could see that he wasn’t alone. And this helped one of our other staff members come out as trans too as well as several other students.
His letter to me of awe and gratitude for coming out is one I still have saved away and I turn to when I need reminders of why I fight.
I can’t say whether or not it feels worth the risks, but I can say this. Even if you don’t come out with your names and pronouns, it’s worth pursuing being out in the other arenas of your life and pursuing medical stuff if you want it.
Cis people are fucking blind and if they didn’t notice my three years of estrogen tits when I was recloseted, they’re definitely not going to notice for you.
If you’re really worried about it, I think the Trans Law Center has some resources about coming out at work and how to fight for rights to not be discriminated against if any exist in your state or city:
https://transgenderlawcenter.org/resources/employment
Let me know if you have any other specific questions and if you need my safe email address for more personal questions or requests.
I have a great deal of respect for you and your courage. I also teach biology and while I am not trans my youngest is. While I am not in the least bit ashamed or embarrassed by his trans status (in fact, I’m excited that he now started testosterone treatments), I don’t mention it publicly AT ALL. No small part of my motivation for that is that there are enough aggressive hicks in this area that I fear making my son a target. Thats not to say that we are meek and passive (his older brother led the effort to get the confederate flag banned at his high school and I have not been shy about supporting LGBTQ causes publicly), but we still have a healthy fear of becoming a specific target. Additionally, right wingers have lately been targeting college professors to get them fired when they don’t submit to their will. As a result, I have some concerns for my future and a lot of concern for yours.
Yeah, it’s gonna be extra legal to fire me for being trans not long into January thanks to the First Amendment Defense Act and that’s likely only the beginning of how bad it might get.
I’m trying to process a lot this break and try and get to a space where I can settle in for the long fight and keep as many trans folks alive and happy as I can.
On the plus side, the FADA would have to be reintroduced and would likely lead to a bitter fight that might cause GOP bigots in Congress to make statements that can be used against the prospective law in court.
Your comment honestly means a lot and I wish I had the bravery you do. Best of luck B to you this coming year and I’m glad things have worked out for you in this current job and hopefully Trump won’t change that. Seriously though part of reading this comic is the comment section and it’s nice to know I’m not alone.
But what about bi people? Are they a quarter-succubi? Oh wait, that’s right. They don’t exist! Silly me~.
That smouldering sexiness though. As you said it’s exactly what anti-gay groups love to think. Them darn gays, tempting the youth with their rainbows.
Yup, hell it’s one of the interesting things resulting from the real-world run on outing anti-gay politicians. Really hammering home the odd sexual obsession hater groups have for their objects of obsession and how often they betray fetishization of their object of hatred (see how often transphobes dig out hard to find tr**y porn for their hate screeds or homophobes act like queer folks are literally irresistable to anyone regardless of sexuality or most sexists talking about women ever).
Damn, that’s some truth if ever I’ve seen it.
#Notall, though … some are certainly trying to blame and shame and justify their closeted obsession, but there are also a lot of simple hateful bigots lookin’ for someone to hate on (and/or turn the hate away from themselves).
(Heck, there are even some plain opportunists, who will say they believe or hate whatever and whoever will get them more money, power, etc, which is all they really care about.)
And when you put them all together, the motivations intersect in some really weird ways, sometimes. :/
Oh very much so, but it is very notable how common psychosexual obsession plays into bigoted beliefs (see also the weird obsession with interracial porn tropes among racists, the obsession about muslims and immigrants “rampaging over our women” among islamophobes and xenophobes, and so on).
But yeah, the desires to have someone you have power over, so even at your worst you’re “inherently better” than every member of the hated group is also a powerful motivator.
Especially among folks who suspect they are not all that useful or important to the human race.
Two sevenths of succubi are bi! The other five sevenths are succu
I prefer the theory that incubi and succubi are just two different forms the demon shifts between*. Which makes them all bi, sorta.
* Which explains how they can create life despite being infernal.
Wait, they say “irresistible homo rays” verbatim?
Like I mean, I’m sure they say something to that intent, and I’m pretty sure that this exact wording is a bit facetious, but I also don’t trust my common-sense understanding that some things are too ridiculous for even social conservatives to say.
Poe’s Law says there is no way to tell the difference without killing the cat in the box.
More frequently than you would otherwise expect.
I have seen someone on facebook repeatedly argue that the LGBT community performs illegal human experimentation on the mentally ill.
I wasn’t able to get them to elaborate on why they would do this, but she was dead serious. Some people have a boundless capacity for aggressive ignorance
Good lord, that person sounds so stupid. How do you know that person for them to repeatedly show up on your newsfeed?
I don’t know them at all. I just saw them spouting that nonsense repeatedly in the comments anytime the ACLU posts something that mentions LGBT rights.
I thought for sure she was a troll at first, but she seems to be quite sincere.
emit irresistible homo rays – Please don’t go around spreading discredited theories.
It is well established that homo conversion is a uniform field effect, dropping off at a distance by the inverse-queer law.
damn, you are on a roll, slartibutts, ‘inverse-queer law’ nearly made me drop my taco
Well, it could hardly drop off by the inverse square law, or by a straight line decrease, could it?
Look, they’re clearly fields and rays at the same time, or fields behaving in ray-like manners, or rays behaving in field-like manners, or some other space-and-gender-bending relativism nonsense.
Look, what it comes down to is that otherwise healthy people get unwillingly subjected to strange attractors.
Senator Larry Craig really wishes he’d come up with the “homo ray” defense; it’s better than his “wide stance” excuse.
“…smouldering sexiness…”
It’s like they’re wrong nothing at all…
Nothing at all…
Nothing at all…
Well huh. Roz, any comment?
Silly Robin! That’s the wrong code!
You’ll never get infinite lives in Contra now..
Shhh. Turn down your memes, and let an actual story happen (maybe).
Shhhh. Let people have fun in the comment section the comic will happen no matter what is said.
This was not a direction I expected this to go at all
That’s why she is Robin. Luckily her imagined reality is so stupid, Leslie will hopefully easily shatter it? At ONE point?
Or maybe the point is made DoA is much more serious in how these two cannot be together for a long time, if at all.
You came to her though.
Yeah, Robin, stalk a lady and wake up in bed with her! THAT will show Manley’s people you aren’t into women.
She could say she was at a slumber party as excuse.
It’s a flawless plan!
No one will ever suspect she is gay now and the rumor that she slept with Leslie will be much less believable now that she’ll be walking out of her apartment this morning wearing the same clothes as last night.
The suspicion of course being that she is gay because our media fundamentally does not understand bisexuality.
Media: I know what you are.
Bi/pan/ace/poly/omni/+ person: Say it. Out loud.
Media: You’re….gay! Or not into labels!
Bi/Pan/Ace/Poly/Omni/+ person: *facepalm*
Sad thing is is that I’ve seen old interviews with David Bowie which pretty much go exactly like that, where they imply him being bi is a front put up to hide his “real” sexuality.
I’ve heard similar ones too.
It’s so obvious I don’t know why people don’t do it all the time.
You’re right Cerberus. To make her cover airtight, Robin needs to wear Leslie’s clothes.
It’s the only way to get the paparazzi off her scent. Maybe also smear some lipstick on her face as camo so she can blend in.
Yeah, I’m betting those photos Robin has were taken by people who had nothing to do with Jake Manley. Pretty sure Robin and Leslie were not the only people at the bar.
I’m hoping they were taken by people who had nothing to do with Jake Manley. It’d be nice to have ONE politician in this comic I could respect as a politician.
Yes, I’m making the argument that it’s not ethical to out a queer anti-LGBTQ politician. Yes, I do want to have this fight.
It isn’t right to out anyone.
So you’re correct.
I honestly don’t see anything wrong with outing hypocrites who try to pass bigoted laws that hurt real people, while those politicians are part of the same minority their laws would hurt if they weren’t in a position of power.
My biggest problem is that if you out someone so that their homophobic supporters will dump them, do you really expect the replacement to be less anti-LGBTQ?
Well, others have pointed out that despite Robin’s contention that she needs to pander to the homophobes, Robin’s district is actually very competitive and flip-flops between the parties fairly regularly.
It is also October in comic, so we can suspect that Manley is the nominative “liberal” candidate, so even if he’s super moderate or conservative leaning, he’s less likely to be as hostile to queer rights than her.
If this election is anything like those of other queer politicians who got outed, this will likely tip the election to Manley so for at least 2 years, there will be at least one less homophobe in office during a critical time and the following conservative candidate is going to be much less likely to stake their election on anti-gay rhetoric less they be suspected for being a similarly hypocritical individual.
So yeah, the replacement will probably be less anti-queer.
And that’s what we’ve seen with how the tactic has been used in the past.
Too much reliance on past precedent, I think.
US Republicans adapt. In the current climate, backing away from a rhetoric is around as likely as doubling down on it – hardline earns respect these days, and will for a long while, until we collectively learn”not backing off” is just a romanticized way of saying they rather not do their job if they can’t do it their way.
It worked for Trump. As long as you are charismatic enough, you can present anything you do or believe and a sizable portion of their voter base will be all over it.
I would agree, the post-truth situation presents a whole new thing, but then again, it only works because of very aggressive disenfranchisement and anti-democracy actions in conjunction with a compliant press so terrified of looking “biased” that they will never actually call out the lies on a systemic level and thus allow conspiracy theories reign.
Like, Trump’s new era of conservatism is going to do a lot of damage, very likely fatally to a large swath of people, but in a fair democracy it is not a sustainable movement, more the last gasp of a reactionary movement that has realized they need to adopt Apartheid-esque dirty tricks to remain in power.
And the dark ugly reality is that being a child molester and an abuser and an open nazi will never cost you as many votes as being secretly or openly queer.
It only workED due to those factors. At first. NOW career politicians will see the pattern and start electing charismatic figureheads to positions they can control from the background.
Fair democracy is an oximoron. Democracy is shit. It’s just less shit than anything else we as a race seriously tried before. It’s a decent spit away from Democracy in name only – just one time, a parliament and common people’s majority alike has to decide despotism is a-okay and you are back at autocracy again.
Politicians of both sides now know you can say ANYTHING at all as long as you are percieved well enough, and there will be no repercussions because getting voter support is more important than sticking to the party line.
NONE of this is going to just disappear in a puff of smoke if and when the factors that made it happen disappear. This was an upset in the political landscape from the voter’s side. Hundreds of organized politicians will adapt faster than millions of US voters can, though, and you will have at least a decade or so, at BEST, before this fully blows over.
I say this as a rather hope-oriented person. My hope is someone will notice it and nip in the bud. It will only be a last ghasp if it ultimately doesn’t work. It hasn’t finished it’s run yet – hell, it hasn’t technically even started yet. Success could inject another century for this old, outdated thinking to limp on, just enough to torture a couple million more of our descendants before it finally dies a slow, agonizing death.
Keep yourself on your toes. Be ready to celebrate, and be ready to run.
Maybe, but it seems like a long-shot. And I would argue that what we saw in this election isn’t that voter opinions matter most, but rather that one can get away with eliminating or disregarding huge swaths of the electorate and openly cheat to win and no one will step in to stop you because no one wants to acknowledge that our democracy is sick and in trouble.
Like, Democratic politicians are scared of noting that this election was mugged and their opponents literally no longer believe in free and fair elections or do anything to prevent it, because they are holding on hope that this is somehow fixable and we’re not going to have to do hard ugly work to repair the damages that disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, and rising white nationalism have done to the ability of voters to even remotely matter and for us to still have a county that would be considered a democracy if we didn’t have a lot of money and nukes.
Those are the reasons at the heart of the matter, but just as you said, since no one wants to admit them, they might as well not be there for people who refuse to see them, let alone fix them.
What matters is the implications they CAN handle. Most Politicians wouldn’t admit to themselves, would not handle they broke democracy until it was in shambles. They CAN handle what they always did – treating their voter base as malleable sheep who will react in a specific way to a specific action in a given political climate. And this time, they are like 33% or so right, too.
I don’t believe Trump is a conservative. I still consider him to be a RINO.
I suspect the left’s fears of him are overblown, and the right are blind to what he will bring to the table.
As for his noise. I suspect the acceptance of that is a backlash against the form of “polite” that the media has been pushing for the last while. That people are tired of hyphen-Americans and other euphemisms, (or at least the ones they recognize,) and gave far more slack to Trump than he should have been able to expect. Especially considering that much of what he said was empty rhetoric. “Build a wall”, indeed.
While the Republican leadership is celebrating now, I suspect they’re in for a rude wake-up call when Trump shows his true colors with his veto pen.
Not that I voted for him. I didn’t. I voted Libertarian.
My stance exactly. Outing people(even terrible people) out of their own closet just ruins that one extra life. It’s not like they are the only homophobe in miles and taking them out saves anyone.
It puts an immediate halt to whatever anti-lgbt legislation they were fighting for, sends a shockwave amongst their supporters, and gives a breather for the rest of the community.
When you’re LGBTQ, and then get into political power and then use those powers to FUCK OVER OTHER LGBTQ people, YOU’RE FAIR GAME. They push, we shove back. They’re all but selfish traitors at that point. Why should we play nice with them?
I don’t give two shits about nice. Being ruthless and efficient is good only when it gets you what you want to achieve.
Not everyone will think your way. If you out a queer person, many queer people and their allies will be upset you did that. Many will now refuse to vote for you. The replacement for the outed canditate meanwhile could have a pristine record within the party sensibilites.
Frankly if you are willing to be a dick about it, ostensibly for the good of all, blackmail the politician with your evidence instead of outing them. Or seduce them and make them give up on the career. You’ve got so many options where you didn’t make a bitter enemy, disappointed some of the people you tried to protect, and ruined a life just since you considered it an acceptable loss.
Selfish traitors? There isn’t a Gay Nation that we all pledge allegiance to.
No… of course there isn’t…
>.>
<.<
the comments have been having this fight for three days.
*shrugs* Meh. I’ve seen worse. At least there isn’t a flood of TERFs or racism apologists this time.
The LGBT community has been having it since at least the 80s. It’s a common argument with a lot of good arguments on either side.
You’re wrong and your prioritization of the comfort of bigots over the safety of the queer people they throw under the bus for their own gain is noted. There, fight over.
“You’re wrong and your prioritization of the comfort of bigots over the safety of the queer people they throw under the bus for their own gain is noted. There, fight over.”
I suppose that does indeed make the fight over. When no one actually makes the argument you claim they are making (e.g.- the fact that no one actually stated any belief in prioritizing anyone over anyone to begin with) then there can be no fight since there are literally no combatants to fight against. Sooooo….good job with that? I guess?
Anyway, getting back to the actual discussion…
So the only way to not throw queer people under the bus is to throw specific queer people under the bus (thus legitimizing the use of outing and the violation of privacy as a tactic that can be used against queer people, hence throwing queer people under the bus)? Seems legit.
How does that input sequence work on that style of lockscreen?
Either push the buttons in the correct order or move the cursor through them in the correct order.
She’s describing the path your finger takes from wherever the start point is
Her staff must have configured it, for the express purpose of making it impossible for her to drunk dial people
Trump’s staff really should implement something like that. Since taking away his phone doesn’t seem to have worked, during the campaign.
It did work. Just long enough. He was basically off Twitter for the last couple weeks of the campaign.
I think Roz is responsible for this. Which goes to show she’s the most dangerous of the DeSantos.
I think Robin forgetting that when you’re in public, people can see you is responsible for this. Robin is the most dangerous of the DeSantos, to herself and others.
‘Second most dangerous’ is still a low bar among them either way.
“Less dangerous than Robin and more so than Riley” is a gap large enough to fit just about everyone.
AYKM? With those colorful fruit emojis and adorable smile? Riley is MOST DANGEROUS DESANTO
Roz is not responsible for her ADULT CONGRESSWOMAN sister’s actions in any capacity. Especially not drinking herself silly and breaking into someone’s home, sleeping in their bed and then screaming sexual harassment.
She may be an indirect cause, at worst. Attacking Robin as wehemently as she did Joyce could for instance escalate her suspicions and fears about sexually liberated people.
But those suspicions and fears had to be there first.
Yeah, Roz may have steered the ship closer together, but Robin very gleefully took the wheel when Leslie seemed to jump overboard to Roz’s dismay.
Roz set up false navigation lights so she could pillage the resulting wreckage.
I think you’re vastly underestimating Riley
Soggies will never rule as long as Riley DeSanto draws breath.
You know if you pretend her sister isn’t an incredibly dangerous amoral egoist in a major political office.
Back when they were at the bar, lots of commentors were speculating about someone getting pictures of the fake dick-sucking or the near kiss. There’s no need to have Roz involved.
Doesn’t it seem strange that Robin is making accusations against Leslie, in Leslie’s bed, in her apartment? How dumb do you have to be to set yourself up like that?
Dumb enough not to know how to use a smzrt phone.
Leslie will crumble, though, because she’s Robin’s toy. She has no willpower thanks to her fetishizing her so much.
I like that this Leslie isn’t crumbling.
She’s attracted, but she holds her own and speaks her truth and doesn’t let Robin and her whims run roughshod over her without pushback.
Yeah, but she hasn’t decided to use any means possible to destroy Robin, which apparently means she’s a weak failure.
While I’m more conflicted about the outing of anti-gay politicians, I do not share that belief that Leslie is weak or wrong for deciding that’s beyond her own moral limits. And I find blaming her for having said moral limits a bit silly to be frank.
It’s always fun when people undercut their own drama.
Called it!
“We were photographed in compromising positions I SHALL RESPOND BY LYING IN WAIT IN YOUR BED.”
At least she didn’t decide that her pants were too uncomfortable to wear during all that lying in wait.
She was likely drunk and stormed over to Leslie’s apartment to confront her. However, after persuading the landlord to let her in, she’d likely forgotten why she was ther and was feeling kind of sleepy. Why had she come here again? Let’s lie on this comfortable-looking bed and try to remember! Think, think, think! Comfy bed… Zzzzz!
Another reason why Robin’s “you were sent to seduce me!” thing falls apart, she went to Leslie after class and had the idea to go out for drinks.
Robin is terrible at personal responsibility.
It was her idea to go from a private location to a public bar. It was her idea to keep pushing past Leslie’s repeated attempts to shut down conversation and progression on whatever flirtatious thing they’ve got going on. When Leslie called her out on her crush, Robin responded being loud about sucking dicks in a manner that was always going to have folks taking out their phones.
And it was definitely Robin’s choice to ask what “messing up” looked like when Leslie tried to make her first exit.
Like, there were a lot of different ways to make sure it didn’t get to tabloid picture level and she kind of failed all of them and now will likely be caught by paparazzi leaving Leslie’s house still in last night’s clothes, thus strengthening the story.
But Robin doesn’t really do accepting consequences from her actions, which is a not uncommon professional homophobe move. I think both George Rekers and Larry Craig claimed they were entrapped when they were caught out.
all of this.
Fortunately, Robin gets her suits made of Teflon(TM), from the same clothier that made suits for Reagan, Clinton, and Trump. Scandal just slides right off!
Ooooh, Robin, you make it hard to like you when you pull crap like this. I don’t really care if her alcohol soaked brain thought Leslie was part of a sting. You don’t invade someone’s home and bed and then get to yell at her or tell her not to be mad about that. Aside from how illogical it is, it just reinforced how egotistical Robin is. Her political career supersedes considering anyone else’s comfort, safety, or emotions. I didn’t want Leslie to stoop to outing her with a photo, more for Leslie’s sake than Robin’s, but I desperately want Leslie to shout or smack some sense into her and throw her out for this utter malarky.
Yup, and divorce it from the wackiness and our fond feelings of this ship in the other universe and this is a horror story.
A powerful politician personally mad at you, breaks into your home in the middle of the night to yell at you personally and accuse you of ruining her life?
Like, holy fuck is that terrifying.
Honestly, I can think of several powerful politicians that I would dearly love to have break into my home in the middle of the night to yell at me personally, instead of just spouting shit from the other end of Twitter.
Of course, I’m a big guy with a combat sports hobby and a house full of deadly weapons.
Freida is going to murder Leslie, isn’t she? Or try to. All the while as Robin is blissfully unaware she has a murder squad.
Frieda works student outreach. She just met Robin the day before yesterday. She’s not Robin’s manager or anything. Kyle might do that though.
I doubt the person she refuses to address by his name is fond of her or her cause enough to commit murder in her name.
So do I, but he’d probably be more likely than Frieda, an opportunistic asshole who isn’t very high on her staff.
I’m just miffed murder is already considered as a possible future hereo-o
Even the sheer tackiness of the idea aside, the death of a known LGBT local would inflame the leftie vote in the Democrat’s favor. Why would they ever?
Realistically, they wouldn’t. I find the whole thing unlikely, but if anyone on Robin’s campaign is doing it, it’s going to be the one who works with her regularly, and not the minor figure she just met yesterday.
Assuming it happens at all, which is unlikely.
Sadly, no one cares when known queer locals die. Even when they are likely murdered for political reasons.
The bigots who do the killing end up just being “lone wolves” and a lot of nasty disparagements get thrown around about the queer person being killed over drugs or in a robbery instead in order for straight or cis society to feel better about themselves.
Fuck, there’s a huge crop of bigots who still argue that the very public and very violent lynching of Matthew Shepard was about drugs and money and that Matthew Shepard caused it.
If Leslie were to be murdered, there might be some mourning on her campus and in her gender studies class, but it would do nothing to inflame votes for liberal causes, any more than the regular hate crime murders of LGBT folks do so in our world.
Like, fuck, just think of this last year. We had the deadliest mass shooting in America in a direct hate-crime against the queer community, caused directly by hateful beliefs about the humanity of queer folks and the voting population of that state and the country responded by voting in the most openly hateful administration with regards to queer issues there is.
Our corpses do not and never will matter enough to society at large. And that’s why we need to protect ourselves and stay alive.
@ Cerberus –
A) It got less empathy because it was Latinx night and so the victims were by and large not white/not treated as white and so receive less empathy for their humanity in general (Note = It’s been proven that PoC/folks of marginalized ethnicities receive less empathy from the majority).
or
B) But that was because of ‘evul Muslims!!!” and so obviously they had to vote in Trump to protect them and any rights violations will end up being worth it, and besides, TRUMP isn’t homophobic (yes he is, but his supporters pretend he’s not) so nothing TOO bad will happen, right?
Or bit of column A, bit of column B, bit of column C (not knowing or not caring about this stuff), bit of column D (Issue X is way more important than marginalized folks).
I mean, how dare these folks think they’re human and therefore deserve to live! What is up with that?
‘Our corpses do not and never will matter enough to society at large. And that’s why we need to protect ourselves and stay alive.’
You changed too many variables, here.
If in a local election (not a countrywide one, that’s removed enough) a local from a group you identify with gets bloody murdered for who they are, YOU would start to mobilize, spread the word, get more votes together. IT GUARANTEES NO VICTORY. No one ever said that. These things add up. The murder sprees had an effect, they just can’t carry you on their back when there are millions of you who live far enough to not care.
But in Robin’s case, who runs for a state-wide office, is already not that popular with her voter base for being very suspicious and tacky for a supposed family values canditate, who is unmarried and goes to bars, even a couple thousand extra votes lost and found could mean everything.
You say that like I don’t live in an area where a trans activist is murdered every couple of years.
Robin is a federal level politician, albeit a congressional representative, not the president.
I thought it was bad enough when we could still hope that Robin was doing it out of some gravely misexpressed affection for Leslie. Like, sorry, I don’t care who you are, politician or humble plebeian, no one should enter someone’s home, let alone their BED, without permission. I hoped Robin’d be defensive today, but have a better reason than “Well, I was MAD at you, bleeeh!!!”. And Leslie would still kick her to the curb, but there would be inking that Robin wasn’t ENTIRELY dangerously stupid. Sadly, no. This is a whole new layer of wrong on top of a multi-tiered cake of wrong.
Okay, jokes over, on to the panel analysis! And then back to Patreon to finish the monthly bonuses since I only got through Jan 2015 this morning and then quit to do another thing.
Panel One: Screw you, Robin. You got her landlord to let you into her house and slept in her bed. Don’t you get pissy now that she’s mad.
And I love Leslie for not putting up with it. She may have decided outing isn’t a tool she personally is willing to use, but that doesn’t mean she has to take Robin’s bullshit either.
Panel Two: Okay, yeah, I can see why Robin is upset here. For someone who craves committed affection that doesn’t dissipate and turn toxic, that would hurt a lot. That said, she’s an asshole I’ve been exhausting my sympathy for this entire time.
Leslie seems less mad, more surprised by this panel. Probably was not expecting that.
Panel Three:Robin, stop it. You were at the bar yelling about cocks. A bar YOU INVITED LESLIE TO because you felt bad you got kicked out of class. Don’t play Nice Girl. You are a congressperson probably surrounded by press and opposition researchers, plus PR guys, at any given moment. Even if she had, that doesn’t justify you breaking and entering. I only hope Leslie doesn’t get kicked out of her apartment for being gay because of this mess.
Also – “You didn’t LIKE me” – and she should beCAUSE?
I understand she’s upset about apparently being outed, but that’s not Leslie’s fault and it’s not a free pass to come into her home uninvited and yell at her. It’s nobody’s fault except whoever took the picture and sent it in. And her blaming or ignoring Leslie for everything, including Leslie being pissed at her breaking in, is awful. The fuck, Robin?
Panel Four: Leslie’s hit hard here. She feels things deeply, and she wants them to be accepted as valid. So hearing Robin say she didn’t like her hurts. And of course it gets her to start explaining her position.
Panel Five: Leslie is nervous now. She’s got no idea what Robin means and it could be dangerous for her too. Her job or home might depend on the higher ups not knowing her orientation. If so she is screwed. And yeah, she’s a sad and annoyed over what Robin said too. That doesn’t go away.
Panel Six: Oh, Robin, you even suck at indignation. Fail. At least get your pictures up before you try to win arguments about them.
Panel Seven: Well, at least she’s been defused. And yeah, those lockscreens are the worst. I’m not surprised she needs to mutter it to herself as she does it.
Because Robin is entitled to be liked! (And lots of other things.)
Also, she craves it. Needs it. Like sugar. It might not be why she got into politics, but it’s almost certainly why she stays.
And it’s that need to be liked – by voters, and now, by this pretty teacher who makes her feel strange things inside – that leads her into all sorts of bad/weird places. (Like, the bed of that teacher, after she thinks that Leslie was sent to trap her!)
In her head, she certainly is. And it’s lead to some creepy, CREEPY places.
She may need it, but right now, she doesn’t deserve it. Not from Leslie. I almost feel bad for her, but then I remember this Robin is a shithead right now. I hope she improves, but lately I’ve been living more along the lines of ‘hope for the best, prepare for the worst’.
Yeah, that’s the part that makes this Robin a bit more unsettling. That entitlement to be liked. That she’s owed it and when someone withholds that from her, they are somehow doing her wrong. It’s… well it’s creepy as fuck.
addendum:
Once everyone (who matters) is persuaded, convinced, browbeat, etc etc (whatever it takes or works) into “liking” Robin again, then the world will have resumed its proper shape and she can go back to cruising confidently through it in her personal bubble, having quieted that needy insecure voice inside for one more day.
I dunno, the way I read it, Robin is simply mad because she thinks Leslie was pretending to be interested in her to set her up.
I don’t think she feels it’s owed to her, she’s just hurt because she’s got it in her head the vibes she was getting from Leslie were never real.
In that case, someone needs to remind her that couldn’t be the case because ROBIN is the one who brought LESLIE to the bar for drinks and the one who called Leslie back and asked what messing up would entail when Leslie was leaving.
That is exactly what needs to be pointed out to her, because she’s probably not being very rational at the moment.
She’s not even out to herself yet, and it sounds like she already going to be outed to the press. I have no idea what that would be like, but I can imagine it caused Robin to freak out considerably
I hope she gets very firmly reminded that she invited Leslie. She’s definitely not thinking, but her words are still shitty.
Yeah, I’m with you there.
She’s Robin. I don’t think you need the “at the moment” part. Rational is not her strong suit.
But yeah, I think it’s far more the crush than some broader feeling of entitlement. Even if she didn’t really know why it was important to her that Leslie liked her and finding out it was all a set up was devastating.
Robin’s being a D of not insignificant size, but I don’t see any sense of entitlement to be liked. When Robin says “you never liked me”, she is accusing Leslie of abusing her feelings for ulterior purposes.
Time and again Robin, having no idea what’s gone wrong between her and Leslie, starts off assuming she (Robin) was the one who did something wrong. She’s put in a lot of effort to reach out to Leslie and win her over, and never felt outraged when her efforts didn’t work. So I’m frankly baffled how one could think Robin feels entitled to be liked. She has plenty of other flaws to go around.
Because Leslie explained their problems last night. At this point, she has been told. Whether she understood them correctly doesn’t change that she’s been told and cannot plead ignorance anymore.
I’m pretty sure right now she’s, understandably, upset about being outed. That doesn’t mean she’s not being an asshole. She doesn’t get to convince Leslie’s landlord to let her in without Leslie’s permission. She doesn’t get to get pissy when Leslie is mad about it. And she certainly doesn’t get to blame things on Leslie that are not her fault and I’m hoping she’ll be reminded of that very firmly in the near future.
Leslie made clear last night that she is indeed attracted to Robin It’s just that there are other things she’s more concerned about than their attraction. Robin is correct to expect that Leslie presented herself as genuinely liking her – there’s no baseless entitlement about it. And if Leslie had been a plant, Robin would be rightly outraged at having her feelings toyed with like that.
The crap with the landlord and going in without Leslie’s permission, the passing out on Leslie’s bed, her failure to take any of that seriously and trying to supercede Leslie’s emotions with her own after doing that…that’s all on Robin.
But it has nothing to do with a sense of entitlement to be liked. That is not one of Robin’s flaws.
Leslie told her what their problems were though and exactly why they weren’t going to work out. Robin ignored and dismissed those problems all night. She also clearly was not happy with her when she left last night. Robin has a good reason to believe Leslie liked her, but Robin has no rational reason to believe Leslie is a plant – ROBIN invited her out last night. ROBIN had to get her to stay and come up to her after Leslie tried to leave. ROBIN is the one who moved from a private place to a public one. ROBIN is the one who started screaming about sucking cock in a crowded bar full of drunk idiot college students.
I don’t believe Robin is acting rationally right now – she’s upset. But that doesn’t mean she has a good reason to think Leslie’s a plant.
Again, I’m seeing a bunch of correct points I agree with but I don’t see how those points are related to a sense of entitlement to be liked.
…actually wait, I think I do. You believe that Robin thinks the only possible reason Leslie didn’t accept her advances was because Leslie was a plant? Am I understanding you right?
Because that seems totally out of character for Robin generally and contradictory with her demonstrated inward looking for fault whenever things started to fall apart between her and Leslie. The way I’m seeing it, Robin is looking at the headlines and panicking, and is furious at what she thinks (very irrationally and irresponsibly as you say) was a sting instead of what was most likely random strangers taking photos of their Congresswoman getting real intimate with Leslie in a bar.
Mostly I’m irritated she’s doing the whole ‘You never LIKED m’ thing as though she’d every given Leslie reason to. But that’s irritation, not why I think so –
While Robin does have a tendency to look inwards and figure out ‘was it something I said’, she also has a tendency to push responsibility off on other people. She doesn’t listen to what they say because that requires her to be serious and not up up up and sometimes introspection sucks. I think part of it is desperation to be liked so people don’t leave and get upset. But then I remember things where she gets annoyed people call her on her lack of tact instead of falling in line, her asking Leslie to count on her vote like she’s sure she’ll get it, or barging in to her apartment to yell at her expecting her not to be angry. Maybe a better way to put it is she thinks she’s entitled not to be opposed. But it’s definitely showing up more and more and it’s not something I like.
People calling others on their lack of tact is an inherently annoying move. It’s just sometimes necessary to prevent greater harm, and the receiver has to judge for themselves whether to heed the warning.
Asking Leslie about her vote was a fallback line that Robin used when, as you say, she got desperate for Leslie’s approval in any form.
And maybe it’s just me, but I don’t interpret “you don’t get to be angry” as a literal expectation no matter who uses it. I’ve always seen it as someone saying that their grievances are so much greater than the other party’s that it would be absurd and unseemly for the other party to express that anger. Robin obviously (wrongly) thinks her grievances are the greater. Angry people tend to think like that, especially if they’re already naturally self-centered like Robin.
100% agreement on Robin’s lack of sense of responsibility. It’s vexing and it feels absurd that she’s in any position of power.
Well I mean she states in comic that she thought Leslie was a plant who used homo mind-control rays to make her confuzzled about her attractions, because that’s easier to believe for her than she was attracted to a nice hot college teacher, hit on her in public, and said college teacher broke it off because of her long history of bigoted actions against the queer community.
And she’s kind of been treating Leslie extremely shallowly, not really listening when she got real, pushing against boundaries when she tried to set them, and deciding that Leslie doesn’t have a right to be angry about B&E because Robin has anger about something that was her fault to begin with.
I don’t know what flavor of entitlement it is, but it is at least the entitlement to believe her own conspiracy theory view of the world should always be prioritized. That it’s okay for queer folks to suffer and die if it gets her re-elected, that Leslie should overlook said history of bigotry to sleep with her on the down-low, and that her own whims should trump Leslie’s stated boundaries.
It’s treating Leslie and the other constituents as props in the play of her life rather than actual people with actual lives.
And it gets into what Granny Weatherwax talked about with regards to the evil of treating people like things.
Mmm….self-centered delusions of grandeur? Robin has a diet version of whatever Galasso and Sydney have – reality doesn’t easily penetrate their bubble of how they see the world. But where Galasso and Sydney’s delusions are mostly played for laughs, Robin’s takes a cutting edge because when things go wrong Robin is less able to cope with it. We saw something similar happen in Shortpacked when Robin blamed Leslie for everybody else moving out.
It can be, but in this case it involved comments to a dead soldier’s family. At that point, it’s not ‘justifiable lack of tact to get things done’, it’s ‘being an asshole’ flavour lack of tact. I think that’s a time it’s justifiable to complain about it. Kind of like it’s one thing to bluntly state a problem to spur on action to solve it, and another to keep yammering on and on about the fun weekend you had with your grandma to your friend who’s grandmother just died.
I think we’ll have to chalk this up to different readings. I’m starting toes that kind of entitlement, though faintly, and it unsettles me. You don’t see it and that’s cool.
“Mostly I’m irritated she’s doing the whole ‘You never LIKED m’ thing as though she’d every given Leslie reason to.”
Er… the thing is, “reason” or not, Leslie actually did like her. So whatever signals Robin thinks she sent were real. She damn well knows she didn’t give her any reason to like her, and we’re right now hearing her alternate theory on why she acted like she liked her.
Yes, Leslie does like her. We know that. Robin is being irrational right now because she’s either upset or because she’s Robin and what even is rationality. I’m talking about this in isolation. It’s something that irritated me, personally, only in isolation. In context, yeah, Robin’s right that Leslie did like her and, yes, pretending she liked her would be hurtful. That said, Leslie not liking her would be 500000% justified, even if faking it wouldn’t be.
Your panel 3 analysis makes me think that this might be the biggest objection she actually has. Like, yeah, she quickly segues into conspiracy theories of queer seductive conversion, but I think that’s the real queer Robin talking for a second.
She likes Leslie and thought Leslie liked her back and that spoke deeper to her than all the other blathery mouth movements Leslie made. So believing she was a secret plant hurts her, because part of her wants Leslie to like her as much as she likes Leslie.
And it’s also part of why Panel 4 Leslie is so sad, because she communicated her attraction and why she couldn’t act on it. And this is one more sign that Robin didn’t listen for a second to her, to the actually important parts, instead focusing only on the shallowest portion and spinning it to fit her conspiracy theories to protect her self-image.
Yuuuuup. Robin’s blocked out and kidded herself.
*nods grimly to both of you*
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: Okay, I loved Robin/Leslie in the other universe and part of me would love to see these two come together more as equals and for Robin to have a big redemption arc, but holy fuck is this a nasty starting point for Robin to be coming from.
Like, the context for this bit of ego is staggering. She’s admitted now to breaking into Leslie’s room in the middle of the night while Leslie is sleeping simply because she was mad at Leslie. And she believes her anger not only justifies all these violations of boundaries, but also means Leslie is not allowed to show justified outrage at having a powerful congressperson literally commit Breaking and Entering against her.
And it’s the twisted form of the “my lesbian” thing from yesterday. In the other universe it was kinda cute because it was what Robin used to avoid admitting she was in a queer-platonic relationship with Leslie. But here? It’s a sign of believed ownership. Robin thinks Leslie is hers to order around as needed.
And she still believes that after everything Leslie stated to her and all the boundaries she tried to draw and emphasize.
And this is especially heart-breaking as well because all Robin is taking away is this invented grievance rather than the real and painful way that Leslie poured out her pain and history and really reached out to Robin’s core self and tried to appeal to her better nature.
And that’s resonant for me, because it reminds me of fights with my parents where all manner of real grievances and painful bullshit were swept under the carpet in favor of focusing on how “I was rude” to be trying to point these things out or how my very existence was hurting the family.
Panel 2 and first half of Panel 3: I like how upright Leslie is. She’s got a strong moral foundation that carries her through. She couldn’t sleep with a homophobe even if her body craved it, she couldn’t help reaching out to a baby queer and giving them good life advice even if she’s a dangerous bigot, she couldn’t out a fellow queer person personally, and now she can’t lie to Robin even though she would be fully in her rights to.
In her mind, Roz did set her out to seduce Robin and so even though its not the conspiracy theory Robin is revving up, Leslie fesses up and confesses to that piece even if it’ll give ammunition to an angry stalker whose broken into her home and likely has very public positive statements with regards to guns and firearms and “showing toughness to enemies”.
Like, this is a choice that could cost Leslie her life here, but she has her moral lines and she won’t cross them.
And that’s very respectable.
Panel 3: “You just did your gay stuff all over me”.
And this is what the whole outing debate really gets down to. The pervasive belief among homophobes that gays are inherently sexy and seductive and thus must be barred from employment or teaching or existing in public lest innocent kids be seduced into “sinful lifestyles”.
Outing bigots and showing that the ones most obsessed with gay folks are often on the down-low as well, that those who claim they are ex-gay are still just as queer as they were before changed the power the bigots had and made the common rejoinder to someone arguing that gays recruit into “oh, so you think they could ‘recruit’ you?”.
Whether people think it was right or wrong, that changed the game in a lot of ways as far as the public discussion on queer issues.
And it reduced the strength and persuasiveness to latent bisexuals in the population (ones who might never use the term but have that one story of that time in college or who remark on the sexiness of that one same-gendered actor or artist) who viewed their attractions and their idle musings on what it would feel like as signs of demonic infiltration by evil homosexuals trying to overwrite their “godly orientation”.
And it says a lot that that’s what Robin is clinging to in order to deny her own bisexuality/queerness. That this attraction is the result of poisonous duplicity from evil homos rather than something in-born, unchangeable, and a part of her.
And I hope that she is able to see past this and recognize that it wasn’t Manley or Leslie who mad her queer. That this isn’t something inflicted upon her from the outside, but something inherent to herself.
And because Leslie is the person she is, I imagine Leslie will try and reach out and help her, even though Robin is creepily breaking into her home and accusing her of secret homo ray conversion*.
*Interestingly enough, this is also what homophobes use to justify “conversion therapy” and the abuses and violence that occurs within them (and certainly the incredibly high death rate within them by suicide). Because the queers “converted” first with their “propaganda”, so they are just “setting it right” again quid pro quo.
Panel 4: And Leslie has been mad, but this accusation, it must sting like hell and you see that in her sad eyebrow. Like, this is the sort of bullshit that underlay the reasons her parents kicked her out of the house. And this accusation of “conversion” through seduction is an accusation thrown at gay people a lot in the public sphere.
And even more so when one is a queer teacher. There’s a lot of beliefs that every time a student comes out it is because of queer indoctrination in the classroom rather than something inherent in the kid. Because that’s easier to believe.
And it stings all the more because her feelings were very genuine. She lusted after Robin, she crushed after her, and she fought against that real attraction to set boundary after boundary to avoid the exact sort of trainwreck Robin is accusing her of.
What we’re seeing in this panel is a personal tragedy.
Yeah that’s about the extent of nonsense I expected.-. Not the KIND, as I do not have the kind of no doubt dish detergent induced nerve damage required to predict Robin’s actions farther than a second into the future, but extent, yes.
This is Robin at her very worst, doubling down rather than admit responsibility and diverting the guilt to another (political) party.
Hopefully it ends better and this is the low point. I reckon 50/50.
I don’t think she’s even mad about the imagined conspiracy, I think she’s hurt because of the line in panel three. “You NEVER liked me!” That is an expression of hurt and rejection, not righteous indignation.
Clearly, I have no doubt in my mind of that either. All of this is just rationalization more transparent than her closet.
Aha! That’s Robin’s phone. I thought she’d grabbed Leslie’s phone, and was relieved that she’d deleted the one photo she did take.
I wondered why Robin thought she could defeat Leslie’s lock screen.
Wait, if there are compromising photos on Robin’s phone, she must have taken them herself. What did you do with Leslie while she was sleeping, Robin?!
They’re not on Robin’s phone. They’re showing up on news or social media
Panels 5-7: Photographs? Well duh.
I mean, Robin is terrible at personal responsibility and we see that, turning to conspiracy theories and blame (ideally on someone less powerful than her) to deflect any real self-reflection.
We see that in the contempt her aide as for her because of how she blames him for not adequately “managing” her many fuck-ups. We saw that in her deflections of Joyce’s question about the anti-queer bill she tried to pass. We saw that in her massive detours and deflections when Leslie told of how anti-gay legislation has affected her personally in the past. And we see it now with Robin blaming an evening that has always been driven by Robin’s insistence on the very recalcitrant and restrained Leslie.
I imagine there very much are photographs of that close head near-embrace, because well, Robin made it nearly impossible for there not to be. Her outfit is very noteworthy and bright, she’s well-known and went to a local bar likely to be filled with young folks with no love to spare for their bigoted congressperson. One in fact that was super crowded knowing how it would look to be with a visibly queer teacher.
And then she loudly ranted about how she wasn’t gay and how she loved dick and pantomimed sucking cock (which is definitely going to get some cell-phones in the air to record the trainwreck) before interrupting Leslie’s attempted escape to push the point on what “messing up beyond the point of no return” looked like and nearly kissing her before Leslie broke it off for the last time.
Like, not to victim-blame, but there were definitely always going to be pictures of that moment, regardless of anything else. And someone with more self-awareness would recognize that and focus more on getting out ahead of the issue rather than breaking and entering to yell at the person who tried to head-off the runaway coach before it went over the gorge.
And the worst part is that Leslie knew this end would come to Robin at some point, that this barely held together closet of hers would crumble down not only hurting her but others in its destruction.
And I imagine Leslie will face at least some heat, if not from the school, certainly from Robin’s anti-gay fanbase who will likely see Leslie as Robin does here, as a seducer working for Manley to discredit their “warrior for God”.
Leslie is likely to be getting a lot of harassment for a long time, more so if Robin decides to throw Leslie under the bus and blame her for entrapment rather than be honest about her attractions.
Also – this bar is close enough to the dorms that one can easily walk back. It’s the same one Sal and Jason were at roughly a week and a half ago. He ended up carrying Sal’s drunk ass home. So yeah, student bar. Students who’d love a hilarious video like that. And love pics of their Congressperson macking on a lady. I bet they were up online by the time Leslie got home.
I was hoping the thing would be to do with Ryan. Because while “Yo landlord dude lemme into your tenant’s apartment, she’ll be totally sweet with it, we were talking about someone tonight and she wanted to know as soon as I had details, she’ll totes be cool okay?” at least has a degree of hope mixed into the awful, this is just so many steps backwards.
And it’s not just the school and Robin’s fanbase to worry about: the landlord knows about the thing because the photos are in the news, and was okay with letting her in so the two perves could yell it out and arrrrrrrggghh *incoherent rage*
Yeah, that landlord is pure scum.
So I am guessing this is the ‘thing’ that motivated the landlord to let her into the apartment. Photographic evidence of having (almost) made out with the tenant the same night is not really a valid reason for letting a previously unknown person into the apartment without notice… But it’s not quite as bad as some of the scenarios considered. Kinda. A little.
Actually, that makes it feel worse. Like, having pictures of having previously made-out doesn’t mean that they are at all invited to one’s place or bed and the fact that her landlord apparently believes one moment of intimacy is an invitation for all that is… eee, not good.
Yeah, sounds like a good way for a stalker or an abusive/vengeful ex to get in.
Yeah, and as someone who’s had a stalker and has been in relationships with folks who had abusive/vengeful exes, this is the sort of stuff of nightmares and why I lock my door of a night.
Can’t blame you! That sounds terrifying and I’m sorry.
I agree with you that it is vastly insufficient as there are a significant number of reasons Leslie could (and does) not want Robin in her apartment, many of them much more dire than the relatively simple Robin-has-not-earned-that-right that is the case here.
That being said… “Let me into Leslie Bean’s apartment for no stated reason, or some wild claim I can’t prove” or “Let me into Leslie Bean’s apartment because you recognize me from TV” or the like… Well, that just widens the field even more, from undesirable ex’s and currents, to them PLUS literally anyone you’ve never even seen before.
It also leaves open a door for there being well-intentionedness (albeit clueless-to-the-point-of-negligence well-intentionedness) on the landlord’s part that a simple conversation could clear up. Mind you, there shouldn’t NEED to be a conversation, as “don’t let people I don’t preapprove into my apartment” should not have to be a special request, but…
Of all the possible bad reasons, this seems like a potentially fixable bad reason, which I view as preferable to unfixable.
(likely there’s also some level of sexism involved, as “obviously” a woman “can’t” be an abusive ex. Which does not improve anything any, but I’m mentioning it)
Wait, does anyone of you consider it normal that the landlord has a key?
If it’s an apartment? Absolutely. The building managers and maintenance guy all have keys to get into any apartment in my building.
I don’t know if that’s also common for townhouses and condos and such
Cultural difference obviously. In Germany, the only case a landlord is allowed to enter your premises without prior notice is when something affecting the whole house is up (like a drain broke and it’s leaking into your downstairs neighbor’s apartment). They cannot claim a key to all your locks.
I believe that first part is also the law in many places in the US. But not the locks part. But your lease may contain a clause about entry for routine maintenance like pest control spraying.
I can see what you’re getting at with regards to cluelessness, but the reason I blame the landlord more than Robin given what we know is that anyone can *ask* to be let in. But if the landlord answers the door it is always the landlord’s job not to let that person in until their entry is cleared by the tenant. The better case scenarios for Robin leave her with some embarrassing stories and apologies to make. The better case scenarios for the landlord still involve a clear and extremely worrying breach of duty that could very well endanger property, life and limb.
Well, sure, but what’s Leslie going to do about it? She can be denied housing for being gay – what’s she going to do against the landlord who lets her stay? Complain? Not unless she has a backup place to go.
Yup. Her hands are very tied.
And depending on what Robin said when demanding entrance, she might be fucked already on the housing front if he has a problem with queer tenants.
That’s what I’m afraid of.
Bloomington does seem to have some protections in place, though it’s not clear how effective they are.
Indiana doesn’t on the state level, of course.
That depends on what crock-o-bull story Robin told him. “See! I’m her girlfriend! This proves it!”
Of course, this will blow up in Robin’s face; he’s already commented on every article with the picture – “It’s all true, I saw her arriving at the woman’s apartment tonight! I bet they’re doing the deed right now!”
Reality is defined by those who shout the loudest and social media has a loud, loud voice indeed. By the point Leslie reaches her office today, it will be common knowledge that she’s Robin’s girlfriend and that they spent last night having hot, sweaty sex. Any statement of denial from Robin and/or Leslie will be treated with smug, patronising and knowing looks and be discounted with an airy gesture and a comment of “Well, she would say that, wouldn’t she?”
Left left right right up down up down B A.
No, that’s the one that gets you all weapons and infinite ammo.
Yeah, I thought that there would be photographs of what most people would interpret as a date. I’d remind Robin that she was the one who asked Leslie out but, being Robin, she’s busy rewriting her memories to make the outcome Leslie’s fault.
So, either Robin subscribes to the ancient and all-but-extinct old wives’ tale that homosexuality is somehow ‘contagious’ or (and this is far more likely) its another mile marker she’s passing during her journey down Deriver Denial about the way her own mind works. I can’t help but wonder if, even at this late date, she’s still parroting the words from Frieda or Aide’s mouths?
I get the feeling that there was more to Roz’s plan than she let on to, or otherwise this is pure coincidence.
Either way, as people were saying the last few days, the repercussions are probably going to be a lot worse for Leslie than for Robin.
I kinda feel this might be part of Roz’s plan, as she does not think the repercussions through for other people. She probably thought “Everyone knows that Leslie is Gay, so her being seen engaging in gay stuff is not going to effect her!”. But these photos might very well lead to her being fired, for creating a political scandal than could be associated with the college.
This is still a college comic, right? /s
Nah, Robin’s dialed it down to middle school.
Well, yeah; one of the protagonists in the current mini-arc is a college lecturer.
(Yes, I saw the sarcasm tag; my response is for those who either didn’t see it or wouldn’t understand it!)
Woohoo! The sarcasm tag has been noted duly!
The sad thing (well, one of them) is that this is exactly how Leslie feared things would crash down IF she went through with Roz’ plan.
She didn’t and yet here she is.
So, let the readers give their opinion! In your view, will this mini-arc will end with:
1) Leslie comforting a hysterical Robin, who is sure that her political career is over (not without reason) and there is a sad kiss that both regret for different reasons;
2) Robin threatens to destroy Leslie for ‘doing that gay stuff to ruin me’ and storms out;
3) Leslie throws Robin out after telling her that it’s her own fault for courting the homophobe vote and that she should have realised that this would make her vulnerable to a stunt like this;
4) Robin raves on for a while, describing Leslie in increasingly sexualised and romantic terms before pausing and whispering: “Oh my god, I do like girls!”
FWIW, I’m voting option (4) followed by option (1).
God I hope not, Leslie deserves so much better than this sack of human garbage.
Because people should restrict themselves in mates of roughly equal value by some arbitrary system you made up, instead of finding love or at least compatibility or something.
WE KNOW these two would be happy together in a vacuum. We saw it a continuity ago. If Robin improves steadily enough, they will be probably together again.
And if not, that’s fine too, but it’s for LESLIE to decide what she likes in people, not you. She had been told what to like and what to not like QUIE ENOUGH, I think. Lay both of them off, already.
Except she’s fictional. We absolutely CAN criticize her decisions if we are so inclined.
I still ship these two, but if it doesn’t feel like Robin has actually earned whatever redemption she gets AND happens between them, I’m not going to enjoy it. I have confidence that won’t end up being the case for me, but Robin has been adding to the pile of things she needs to make up for far more than she’s been subtracting.
Leslie DOES deserve someone better. The improved Robin you describe dies not exist yet. Even if/when she does, she’ll still be understandably tainted by her past actions such that not everyone will be happy about it.
I expected the ‘it is fiction’ line brought up in the matter.
Fact is we could use the same line of reasoning to say ‘she is fictional, therefore the morality of her actions do not matter’.
Anything they do ONLY matter to us since we DECIDE they matter. Otherwise they are completely irrelevant. I decide to be invested in them, and Emily herself seems pretty invested, too. Criticizing them, too, is a form of investment, which you CAN do. I’m not saying you can’t. I’m saying that particular criticism is on unstable grounds, to say the least.
“Leslie DOES deserve someone better. The improved Robin you describe dies not exist yet. Even if/when she does, she’ll still be understandably tainted by her past actions such that not everyone will be happy about it.”
And once again, as I said, it is up to Leslie to decide whether she draws the line above or below Robin as far as her values go. She seems like a pretty reasonable person overall. Impulsive of late, maybe, but by far one of the most levelheaded characters in this comic.
Can we just trust her she will make a valid choice until she actually fucks up, at least?
Being invested in the characters does not magically grant them agency separate from how they are written.
The “unstable grounds” you’re talking about are ridiculous. BenRG posed the question of what people wanted to happen, in the future. Emily answered. You complained about her answer on the grounds that we should respect a fictional character’s choices.
So no, it is not possible to both answer a question about hypothetical future events AND “wait until she actually fucks up”.
“Being invested in the characters does not magically grant them agency separate from how they are written.”
Neither does it grant them agency to be better people than how they are written. Which is to say, they have no choice over the matter, and we should not judge them unless it is varranted.
“BenRG posed the question of what people wanted to happen, in the future. Emily answered. You complained about her answer on the grounds that we should respect a fictional character’s choices.”
That is not the context in which my post was written.
Emily didn’t just answer, she has declared two of the choices to be automatically bad ones, as if we had insights into Leslie’s (fictional) priorities aside from what we beyond the fourth wall have seen. What we HAVE seen in this universe and the previous one points towards that whether she “deserves” better or not is moot, since Leslie, the character written by a guy and not a live person, does not care about that all that much.
She declared her opinion. Your reaction to basically dismiss the very grounds for having that opinion, then make an argument that could just as easily be used to invalidate ANY opinions about the characters choices.
Hell, even if we were talking about REAL people, “she deserves someone better” is a completely acceptable opinion. If you actually take action to sabotage someone’s relationship because you think they deserve better, THAT would be shitty. THAT would warrant a “well that isn’t your decision to make” lecture.
Now, now, if I thought she stated just an opinion I wouldn’t have cared.
As I saw she has no doubt in her mind whatsoever that Robin is objectively terrible, what with her stating she is the mud of the earth so dismissively, to everybody who would express even the most cautious preference towards Robin in the last few days.
I could have read that wrong! But only she can confirm whether she sees that as an opinion or not.
I’m pretty sure that is exactly the case.
That is an opinion that she and anyone else who shares it is completely entitled to have. Robin has done a lot of horrible things to deserve it.
If you were simply disagreeing, expressing a contrary opinion, or even arguing that Robin isn’t that bad, I would have no issue with it.
But you keep acting like other people’s opinions need to be vetted by you, and you keep acting like they aren’t valid. You are being dismissive as hell. The fact that you’re being so dismissive of real people because you think they’re being too dismissive of a fictional character is precisely what I took issue with.
We know different versions of these characters can be happy together, one’s we’ve seen hints at in this universe.
But it’s worth noting that while the other Robin was impulsive, closeted, and fearful of admitting how strong her attraction for Leslie was, she did not have a history of being an anti-gay politician and in fact, mostly had a problem of being a fetishist regarding attraction between men.
As such, this Robin and this Leslie have a steep hill to climb and given the amount of boundary violations and wrong-doing Robin has engaged in, I’d like to see a lot more growth and awareness before they jump into any sort of romantic relationship.
I’d like to, too. Should I have specified the timeframe? I just assume people will be nice and don’t immediately think I said bollocks.
On the different version topic, though, are they all that different? Leslie is all but the same, with a better job and more passionate for the LGBTQ cause as a whole. Robin is all but the same, except for everything you listed, which is a rather minor part of her personal character – it was completely and outspokenly admitted to Leslie she only did it just to pander to her voter base.
If she stopped at any point in time, Robin would be in a better position already than Shortpacked! Robin was.
The policies she supports would kill people. Yes, it would be even more awful if she explicitly believed that LGBT people deserved to die, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t still messed up that she thinks getting a few votes justified trying to remove the few protections they have.
If you kill someone accidentally through carelessness, it isn’t murder, but it’s still manslaughter. The lack of intent means you’ll get a lesser sentence, not that you haven’t committed a crime.
Hmm, well with regards to the are they different argument, I would argue that they are very different.
Leslie in the other universe worked retail and was impoverished but still seemed to have contact and a relationship with her rich parents and didn’t seem to spend any time on the street homeless. She also had much less self-respect and was willing to devote endless hours of her time and devotion in service to what was in her universe a real-life superhero albeit a closeted one with impulsive habits that were occasionally hurtful and destructive.
This Leslie does not have that same origin. She was fully disowned by her family and lived on the streets doing what she needed to survive and watched other queer youth starve and die in front of her. She also has much more self-respect and awareness of the issues that affect her.
And Robin… well, we saw Robin the politician in the other universe and she never actually supported anything too rancid and seemed to have a strong empathy streak that was only hampered by her impulsivity and seemed to take criticisms seriously.
This Robin is not that Robin. She’s not a superhero with a history of saving the world. She’s just a young politician who has supported hateful legislation and not even out of principle, but simply because she thinks that the votes of bigots matters more than the lives of queer folks. She’s openly hostile to showing empathy for others because she doesn’t like handling guilt and is presuming major intimacies that don’t exist and has a habit of pushing regularly against boundaries in a more realistic setting where that is less cute and more dangerous stalker.
And that’s a big deal. Like, I have a lot of positive feelings about this ship and part of em is rooting for it, but it’s worth noting that this Robin and Leslie are vastly different and where Robin is different matters especially where it being a more realistic setting makes those actions that are more similar more disturbing.
And these aren’t minor issues. As Fart Captor notes, her stated policies threaten the lives of queer folks and make it harder for them to survive and her defenses of that treat homeless queer youth like Leslie used to be like a meaningless buzzing noise to be ignored simply because they are not as important as the votes of bigots and Robin’s clean conscience.
This Robin does not yet respect Leslie as a human being, as seen by her showing no respect to Leslie’s boundaries and treating her as “my lesbian” despite Leslie showing nowhere near the level of interest and obsession she did in the other universe and where she has stated openly how Robin’s identity as a political bigot bothers her.
As such, any relationship opened at this stage would be openly abusive towards Leslie and dangerously toxic. She might still jump at it, because no one is immune from bad decisions, but I don’t want to see a ship that’s just Leslie betraying her conscience and being in constant turmoil with a girlfriend who is in nowhere near the right space to respect her.
I want, if these two are to get together, to have them approach as equals and for Robin to acknowledge and own how her past has hurt Leslie and those like her.
And on a separate note, it bothers me that the bigotry of her vote keeps getting dismissed as a minor issue. And it’s because of how it ties to a larger issue I’ve been noticing in America at the moment after the election.
And that’s how bigoted laws that actively affect people and politics are treated as meaningless distractions no more important than who’s someone’s favorite sports-ball team. And thus we shouldn’t hold one’s politics against them, especially if they are not held in earnest but rather in tribal identity.
But this is a toxic idea, largely because it’s not a game. Politics do matter. I’m struggling to keep myself and others alive because of the political situation in America and the rise of fascism means seeing a lot of my friends being harassed by literal nazis and their apologists who think they own the world now. And I’m genuinely scared that I might not survive the next X years of a Trump presidency.
I do know that not everyone I know and have mentored will survive it and I already lost one of the one’s I mentored the night he got elected.
Votes and politics matter. And having them treated like a meaningless game is what’s allowed us to get to a point where eliminationism and word-games about harassment and abuse are just part of the “normal” political dialogue and that has direct effects on whether or not I get to survive or not.
Robin’s politics in her fictional world matter, and while I would struggle with whether to out someone like Robin in our world, I would definitely not respect anyone who slept with her with her history of killing queer kids by proxy out of bullshit political expediency.
And so I can’t cheer the current ship until that is changed and acknowledged on Robin’s part and she knocks off the creepy stalker shit.
Everything Cerberus said. Robin’s votes are not a game.
Also – Cerberus, I don’t know how much I’ll be able to help, knowledge wise, but if you ever need an ear, you can message me on Patreon.
Yeah, I concede, Cerberus, you make a good point.
Option (1) followed by option (3) maximises the amount of DRAMA involved.
Sorry, option (4) followed by option (3).
Have I mentioned I’m dyscalculic?
Kinda sad Willis didn’t imply up up down down left right left right.
Stop arguing and make out. That’s how problems get solved.
For the next 17 hours, I’m going to hold on to the headcanon that Robin took the photos herself as “proof” of Manley’s “plot”.
I’m wondering of Roz took the photos and is the one responsible for their publication – She’s going to ‘out’ her sister no matter what; even if it causes Leslie harm.
That sounds highly unlikely. For all Roz knows, her plan failed when Leslie booted Robin from class. She had no way of knowing they’d be at a bar later that day, much less when or where.
Robin is a member of Congress who was in a bar shouting about how much she loved sucking cocks. That alone would have drawn enough attention for there to be people taking photos of what happened next
Is Roz even old enough to go into a bar? I thought she was 18, and my understanding is that bars near college campuses are pretty strict about that (Indiana has a law that people under 21 aren’t allowed in bars or liquor stores even if they’re not buying alcohol; other states may not.)
A legitimate question, but she might have a fake ID or be using Sal’s method.
Wow, it was all Leslie fault! She was the evil lesbian seducer sent by liberals to destroy Robin! OH MY GOD!
OH. MAH. GAWD!
CALL NOW TO GIVE YOUR SEED TO US
YOUR MONEY SEED WILL SCARE THE DEVIL AWAY
Man, that’s really gonna sting when Leslie sees the photos and bursts out laughing. Robin did drag her to a public place and then perform certain actions in a cloud of cell phones.
Newer reader, gone back through the archives. I feel like I’m missing something. What is Leslie’s attraction to Robin based on? Celebrity crush? The only previous interaction seems to be the *first* time Robin came to the gender studies class, and iirc Leslie’s attraction was already in bloom.
What am i missing?
I think it’s a celebrity crush kinda thing, a very shallow one.
You are missing stuff that happened in Short Packed. Don’t worry — a bunch of commentators will be along presently to explain it to you.
Can we have a comic where it’s just Leslie and her bi having a good time and there is no closets and no power imbalances and they just talk about Steven Universe and A?
I said “and sens8” but my phone glitches
Daaaang, I think your phone lives in Rosewood.
Your ideal ship just sounds like my relationship with my fiancee… 😮
D’awwwwwwww 🙂
Awwwwwww! <3
I am seconding both previous “Awwwwwww”s therefore making it four
Also I said that cuz that’s pretty much what I was doing with my life a few weeks ago, but alone. Except when I forced my dad to watch sens8 mostly so he’ll see a story with a trans person and see that they are people. That’s for… the future… and it had unidentified results. He started purposely misgendering Nomi right after that episode with her mother and I sorta flipped my shit at him, then after about an hour of what was essentially an angry gender studies class (where there were also stuff about me being bi that he is not over it) he still watched more episodes… so that I think is optimistic, but he’s kinda hard to read on that sort of stuff
Robin totally missed the opportunity to use the “Look at these photographs! Everyt time I do they don’t make me laugh…”
Alright, so…. all of our aggressive moralizing was for nought and Robin is back to being an ass– Indeed, probably 75% more of an ass than she was when she last ass’d.
Sad, but at least we’re used to it.