Very perceptive, but I’m not sure that he’s not targeting Ethan by robbing him of his pastime. What could be more frustrating than having someone else make your arguments better than you could.
Having somebody make arguments for your opponents side that you know have to be false because OBVIOUSLY YOU’RE RIGHT but that seem to be as perfect as Mike’s are here, maybe?
Point. Due to comments below I’ve changed my mind and now think that Mike was both sides of the conversation and his target is seducing Ethan to leave Danny in emotional shreds. Thing is, due to Amber’s evolving view of Sal and versa, I’m not sure how solid the Danny/Amazigirl breakup is. Worth remembering is that Mike is DOA Mike and not fully developed Mike which means he makes mistakes, misfires sometimes, and sometimes reaches for the wrong goal. He hasn’t even discovered his alcohol related weakness yet.
The absolute worst is having someone make seemingly perfect arguments that support your case but are based on assumptions you don’t actually agree with, so when the other guy concedes, you have to say “Well, no – his conclusions are right, but his reasons are wrong”, and then the guy who made the argument in your favour accuses you of being a troll who just disagrees with whatever the last person said.
Nah, the absolute worst, is finding out that the person you’ve been agreeing with on some points, is a female MRA-supporter. Because it makes you disgusted you ever agreed with them on anything in the first place. And it makes you doubt your own opinions, because if they agreed with them, maybe there’s something screwed up in your own look at things as well.
…I once had an internet argument and both parties came out of it more enlightened than before. This happened at least three times, twice on Twitter and once on YouTube.
I’m not sure how he’s going to manage simultaneously banging Danny and Ethan in different rooms this time around but then again I’m not sure how he managed that feat in Shortpacked! either.
While that’s one of my favorite pages in Shortpacked! where they try to figure out at which times Mike was where, I’m somewhat hoping he can manage a scheme of similar scope without actually banging anybody this time. As it is, he’s only aiming for Ethan directly, so he’s got to throw in an extra layer of mind screw to hit both him and Danny effectively. The sex would be incidental to anything of that magnitude. Or, you know, Willis has a better imagination than me. Which of course he does.
Sure, Mike claims he’s just doing this to seduce Ethan and be an ass, but if you check the encrypted drive on his computer, you’ll find GIGABYTES of CyGate fic, not mention his self-insert character Warnertron who is a brooding ex-Decepticon assassin (deep cover, which is why you’ve never heard of him) and tortured abut his past but totally coming to terms with it thanks to the love of Windblade.
…I am now imagining Warnertron and discovering that Mike’s hair actually works better on a robot than on a person.
“you’ll find GIGABYTES of CyGate fic, not mention his self-insert character Warnertron who is a brooding ex-Decepticon assassin (deep cover, which is why you’ve never heard of him) and tortured abut his past but totally coming to terms with it thanks to the love of Windblade.”
And all of this is just as a preparation to seduce Ethan and be an ass.
Makes you wonder whether Mike supplied both sides of the argument. Finding people who are wrong on the internet may be easy, but finding such people admitting to be wrong is rare.
Actually, when Mike says that he had sex with a mom for a nickle, I don’t know that he’s actually said which of those two parties is paying the other a nickle.
NGL
This kind of feels like Mike has actually always been into Ethan on a shared-interest level, and wanted to pretend they weren’t real friends. Or maybe Mike is just dickish enough to pretend at interets in fandom just to checkmate Ethan.
…Or maybe Mike is actually into Ethan and Danny’s interest made him realise he had ACTUAL competition?
Yeah, that’s what I hope, that Mike act on real attraction, but is too caught in his own stupid bully-persona to act on it directly rather than through a stupid scheme.
Man, it has been a while since I’ve laughed this had at a a strip. Something about Mike just…does it for me. That said, Ethan’s reaction to winning an internet argument is nothing short of perfect
Well this is uncomfortable.
I see some of you guys still enjoy Mike on some level. I used to just say “I don’t get it” ’cause I’ve never liked Mike, but in the last couple years it turned out that this character meant to be so over-the-top as to be utterly impossible (and therefore somehow funny) is not only 100% real, but he exists in droves that coordinate with each other to attack anyone they want, for any reason they want. My own sense of decency and empathy compels me to conclude that whatever joke there was to be had in Mike can never be funny again.
Sometimes I wonder what the comments would look like if instead of Mike working at Shortpacked we wound up with Mary, and how that would affect the way people see her later on in DoA when she gets up to her own “old tricks”.
The difference between Mike and Mary is that Mike attacks everyone pretty much randomly based on his whims, while Mary hates specific people for things they can’t control and will literally try to kill people via bullying. Mike hits people who can and do hit back with making them angry actually being his goal a lot of the time, whereas Mary literally wants to hurt people until they stop existing. Mike is just an Asshole but Mary is a Bigot, which is why (sometimes) Mike can be Funny Evil while Mary is always Evil Evil.
Agree in part with you. 100% on you assessment of Mary.
Mike is a bit more complicated then operating on a whim. He hits people in their vulnerable spots, not to destroy them I think, so much as to show them their own stupidity. After an encounter with Mike you view the world in a much different way.
And yes, Mike’s targets are those who can fight back if they get themselves together.
Mike once had a scheme going in Shortpacked in which he managed to snare 5 story lines with 5 of his compartriots at one time. And he zinged all 5 of them. Mike is never shortsighted in his plans.
I love Mike. He is a force of his own nature.
I did simplify Mike’s motivations a bit for the sake of keeping the post short, and I sort of agree with you on the hurting people to improve them thing, at this point I’m pretty sure Mike dislikes everyone, but hates hypocrites so outside of his random acts of evil he tries to get people to realize who they are for better or worse. (Like, he’d probably hate Mary because she claims to ‘love the sinner’ when she clearly doesn’t, but he’d have no real issue with Sydney because she’s evil but she’ll admit it to your face and never lies about her motivations.)
He’s an asshole who deliberately hurts his friends either to entertain himself, or out of the self-righteous belief that he’s helping them by toughening them up.
Really, the only valuable lesson Do a Mike has taught anyone is not to trust or confide anything in him because he will eventually use it against you.
Except DoA mike opens up with trying to teach Walky a lesson re:those childish things you think are all you need are meaningless and will actually set you behind in life
I was going to ask if “I don’t (even) care no more” was from Bad Day but I looked up the lyrics and it’s actually “I don’t need no carrying on.” So carry on.
If Mary had been there she would have been an impotent pile of stuttering bigoted rage that everyone hated and was used as an example for their various complaints, much like the customers.
A lot of it has to do with context, for me. In Shortpacked, reality was way off from our norm. Ultracar, Robin’s insanity and ability to do Congress as her side-job from working at a toy store, it was all unreal to the point where Mike’s cruelty was similarly unreal.
I realize that things are a little off, here, with slow timeline that still keeps pace with our time, and with Amazi-Girl. But, it’s still closer enough that Mike really doesn’t have the same distance.
My view of Mike’s motivations goes something like this:
It is a mistake to think that Mike ‘enjoys’ any of his stunts. If anything, he seems mildly angry that he is right about what would fool, provoke or hurt them. To Mike, the world is an unrelenting tide of hypocrisy, greed, selfishness and self-deceit. He despises this world and all the people who pretend to have any happiness in it. Everyone should be bitterly resentful and vengeful about it, like him. No-one has the justification for being happy, so he has made it his life’s mission to expose the petty, selfish and malignant person they really are to their eyes.
He is hurting, constantly, by what he sees as a world full of smiling asks. He wants those masks all torn off to expose the monsters that he knows are hiding underneath. He knows himself to be a monster and he wants to live in a world where no-one pretends that they are not a monster. He will tear off their mask if they try.
Mike has never been funny to me, because I’m really not sure where the joke is in a horrifyingly cruel white dude who is largely immune to consequences.
He’s a perfect example of “young white male privilege” with plenty of time and room to eventually become the perfect example of “rich old white male privilege”?
He’s already tried to antagonize Sara, and had Joyce not waylayed him to make him stop, probably would have been the perfect reason for her to flip her shit, but suffered no consequences (no one told him to fuck off, so he’ll still be walking to classes with everyone as far as we know, etc).
Would be interesting to see him meet and cause an issue with Jacob, who is probably one of the few characters I can see making a mockery of Mike by easily deflecting any physical or verbal blows the guy tries to make… unless the flaws of Walkyverse Jacob have carried over into Dumbiverse Jacob, and Mike decides to predate on them.
Ah, that’s what’s so different feeling about the mike from this universe and Walkyverse Mike. This Mike hasn’t suffered for his actions yet, Walkyverse Mike suffered repeatedly for his actions (was beat up several times, etc.) but since violence is treated more seriously here it hasn’t happened.
Mike in the Walkyverse was just “an asshole” put there as a convenient plot device to antagonize or tear down characters as needed, who was later made into something with a little more context, though his presence and actions still were more “force of the universe to forcefully teach lessons to everyone else how they’re awful and why they should think about what they’re doing or what they’re like”.
In this universe, he’s supposed to be an actual character who has, somehow, managed to have childhood ‘friends’ that have put up with and stay around him, despite knowing and experiencing that he won’t hesitate to criticize or rip at them no matter what happens because of his words or actions. We have yet to get any real insight to why he’s like that, since his family life seems to mirror what it was in the previous stories, and his presence/actions still seems more “plot device” and “universe enacts judgment upon ____ for their flaws” (example: Joe being a horndog towards Joyce on their date) than to have any real context to them.
Either there’s more to Mike ‘pursuing’ Ethan, or there isn’t, but if Mike were an actual person instead of a comic character, there wouldn’t be any real reason to like him or appreciate his actions regardless of his past or motivations. He would probably be someone that would set off a ton of red flags that most would seek to avoid.
God, I hope that’s not Willis’ intent with Mike because I’m so not cool with the character who apparently exists to teach all these minorities lessons and punish them for their hubris being a cisgender white dude that just has super unfortunate implications.
Well, if he were a transgender black dude that’d come with its own super unfortunate implications. Maybe this whole “Mike” thing was a bad idea in the first place.
He’s also pretty relentless towards Joyce. I think he’s like South Park, where he thinks it’s okay since he hurts everyone equally but doesn’t realize that what he’s doing to those members of marginalized groups probably hurts way more than he ever hurts anyone else.
I dunno, Joyce handles him pretty well these days. Kicking him in the shins to get him out of the way. Shoving him away from Dorothy.
And of course, Joyce is a girl. Much like he tried to slutshame Dorothy, women tend to be vulnerable targets for edgelords like Mike.
I think he knows damn well what he’s doing and that’s why he’s picking the targets he is.
Of course, most of our crowd is marginalized one way or another. Maybe when he’s off screen Mike’s harassing the football team and all the popular kids. Doesn’t matter if we don’t see it.
…holy crap, I don’t think there’s a single straight white male in the entire core cast, upon thinking it over. To find one you’d need to either include Jason or look outside the school.
I think the problem was that Cain was offering Grade B fruit as an offering, you know, the crappy stuff that isn’t actually crappy but that looks crappy enough that nobody wants to buy it anyway so it all gets mulched even though it’s still edible and could go towards starving populations and yes I’m miffed about this.
France has ugly produce markets. They also made restaurants throwing out leftovers illegal – they have to donate them to soup kitchens and homeless shelters.
There’s not a lot of textual support for that. It’s an explanation that makes Cain look like the bad guy and God look justified, but all it really says is “Cain presented some of the land’s produce as an offering to the Lord.” and “He did not have regard for Cain and his offering.”
I am in agreement with Kater. I’m looking forward to this story line.
I love Mike.
Now I am wanting to know just how far he is going to push Ethan, and how far Ethan is willing to let him self be pushed.
Calling it now: The new master of Transformers internet debate is Mike. It’s an indication of how much work that he’s willing to put into his nefarious stunts that he must have spent ages researching and drafting that response.
Because Mike. I hate him and any time he’s involved it makes me super uncomfortable and now here’s a plotline that looks like it’s gonna revolve pretty much entirely around him gaslighting Ethan for essentially no reason.
Is it odd that I immediately thought that this was a little bit of a dig at some people on Tumblr? Because I’ve seen things like that happen more than once for various topics there.
I used to go to school with a female, more socially cunning Mike. She would fake being nice to a person (we’ve never seen Mike do that to date) until they let their guard down around her despite her conniving reputation, and play nice just long enough to get something juicy that the other person was vulnerable with, which she would then play for laughs to the whole goddamn school.
My third grade teacher was a big part of why I was a pariah throughout my school years (8YOs are like a pack of fucking wolves and if the teacher singles out one kid as “prey” and gives tacit approval to treat that kid like shit, the kids will obey with glee), but that girl cemented it.
I don’t condone violence, but I spend most of Mike’s on-screen time wanting him to get punched in the face because of how much he reminds me of that girl – and this strip is no exception. I sincerely hope this plot line ends with Mike getting called on his abusive bullshit and frozen out from his victims. Not gonna happen, but hope springs eternal.
It’s so bizarre to me that Mary is apparently the sum of all things evil but somehow Mike gets a pass and is apparently supposed to be a comedic character rather than a horrible abuser.
Mary is ultra-religious (a bad spot to be in on the internet) and has always been immensely self-righteous about it. Mike is entirely unrepentant and has never pretended to be anything more than an asshole (barring maybe his plot to make Walky look stupid in front of Dorothy, and by that I mean he was pretending to be doing Dorothy a favor, not that he was not an asshole). Meanwhile, Mary has zero people on her side while Mike ostensibly has Ethan and Amber in his corner, so he’s a little easier to empathize with.
He’s a slightly less dangerous Joker (which for some of us makes him less realistic, I’m sorry you had a person like that in your life, ischemgeek), while Mary hits closer to hole for those of us who came from religious backgrounds.
That’s my takeaway, though I’m only one person with one view. Mike’s not a good person and I wouldn’t spend time with him of my own volition, but he’s an occasionally obnoxious distraction for the most part. If you did what you could to steer clear of him, you’re unlikely to run afoul of him. Mary is more proactive.
IKR? In Shortpacked!, and even to an extent in It’s Walky, I could almost get it because it was a more cartoony and comedic universe. Consequences were never THAT severe and most of the time nobody got REALLY hurt.
Over here in DoA, that is not the case. He can (and has) caused some serious damage and he’s the fucking worst.
Okay, I have to ask because I’m drawing a complete blank here but when has Mike ever seriously hurt someone? He’s never done the focused bullying to suicide thing Mary tried and the only thing where he physically hurt someone was on Joyce’s date with Joe (and Joyce proved she would have punched Joe herself if Mike wasn’t there to do it for her.)
I guess he kind of tried to hurt Dorothy relationship with Walky but from the in perspective flashback it could easily be taken that he thought he was helping her (if for dickish reasons.) Is there something I’m missing/forgetting here or is his attitude just really people the wrong way?
Well,, for starters, he’s slut shamed both Dorothy and Sal. Then there’s the time he told Amber she was doomed to end up like her dad because she DARED search for someone benevolent (and no, ‘I don’t want to end up like my mom’ does not equal ‘well, if you’re doomed to follow your parent’s pattern’ it equals ‘My mom ended up in a bad relationship and I don’t want to do likewise’. There was no excuse for that and he was being a shithead). Or when he mocked Ethan back into the closet (I DON’T CARE if he didn’t think Ethan would actually listen to him – he did, and at that point Mike’s reaction should have been ‘Uh no, you idiot, don’t actually do it.’)
That’s all off the top of my head. Mike is a dick and a bully. Point blank.
There was also the time when Joyce was finding people to help watch for Toedad, and when he caught wind of it, he tried to bully her into telling him what was going on by suggesting he would try to sabotage her otherwise, and more recently, slut-shaming Billie about her relationship with Ruth (not to her face, but in front of Walky, who he KNOWS cares about her) the morning after Ruth was taken to the health center.
Seriously, the closest Mike has gotten to being nice has been all those times when he’s been in the strip but had no lines, and declining the invite to Joyce’s party
You could argue he was being nice to Joyce by agreeing to chaperone her date, but that was so he could be a dick to Joe (and it should be noted MIKE insisted on the punching element, not Joyce, though she later joined in because Joyce was being a dick too that day).
Sorry, been asleep for the last few hours but I think our definitions of ‘seriously harm’ are very different (I most define it by ‘does it cause major/long term physical, mental, or emotional damage.) The things with Dorothy/Sal struck me more as nasty jokes but even if they where something you could properly consider slut shaming, both of them kind of immediately brushed it off and didn’t really care, so while it certainly wasn’t good it also didn’t do damage.
The thing where he told Amber she could end up an abuser like her dad was true, that’s literally one of Amber’s biggest character flaws right now she’s making that mistake that Mike warned her she could make, again it was mean, but Amber kind of needed to know she could – and later did – have a problem on that front (at one point in my life I was accidentally bullying someone and I’ve always been super grateful to the friend who flat out told me I was being an ass, even though it hurt like crazy emotionally at the time I never would have gotten better without that pain.)
His reaction when Ethan went back in the closet was ‘no you idiot don’t actually do it’ just slightly more sarcastic than you put it.
And when Joyce was watching for Toedad Mike literally did not know what was happening and if he knew Toedad existed, well in Shortpacked people like him (major, unself-aware hypocrites) where Mike’s favorite target, he probably would have taken a swing at him.
The Billy/Ruth thing was something of ‘dead baby humor’ making fun of something in a situation that wasn’t funny, but not him saying they where wrong to be dating just making witty, mean commentary about it.
These things do show Mike is a dick but none of them are really damaging or even all that evil and I’m starting to think this is an irreconcilable difference in morality (I care more about the fact that he’s honest than that he’s unkind and you care more about the opposite.)
It’s a good thing Mike was there to prey on Amber’s deep seated fears and traumas by propping up a baseless stereotype of abuse survivors entirely based on her desire to have a partner who wouldn’t give her a black eye on a weekly basis. No one has ever driven themselves to harmful lengths over the fear that they’ll end up like their abuser and we need to make they’re properly shamed just so they know how shit they are.
If only Mike was there to tell Sal to stop being so black. Then she wouldn’t have robbed a convenience store. That’s how that works, right?
Fuck you and fuck every goatfucker who thinks like you.
That thing he told Amber was told in the most vicious way possible. Even if Mike had actually witnessed any of the times Amber lost her temper with Danny (he hadn’t), it absolutely did not help her, and even if he somehow thought it would, that doesn’t make it any better. If you think there was even a chance it would have, I hope to god you don’t know anyone who’s ever been abused.
The punchline of those “nasty jokes” directed at Sal and Dorothy was “you had sex and should feel ashamed of it”. That’s slut-shaming whether he intended it as such or not.
And it doesn’t matter what the fuck Mike actually thinks about Billie and Ruth’s relationship, he was mocking it right in front of someone he knows cares about Billie, in the immediate wake of a life-or-death emergency. There is no way to spin that where it isn’t vile.
Same goes for the situation with Joyce. He saw that she was looking for help, and that she was upset. His response to this would to try to bully her into giving him dirt he could use against her.
Worst of all, most of the people he targets treat him like a friend for god knows what reason, or at least inexplicably refuse to shun him.
Like, honesty is great and all, and I myself tend towards being blunt, but you can do that being an abusive, manipulative piece of shit. Mike frequently does not stop at “not avoiding or dressing up the truth to spare people’s feelings”, or even at the truth. He takes a kernel of truth and weaponizes it.
I actually have know someone who was abused, namely ME. My mother was a piece of shit who bullied and took her out on me until I was 18 and dad finally divorced her. I know sometimes it’s easy to accidentally start copying the behavior of your parents and I’ve always been grateful to the rare people who straight up called me on it when I started to fall out of line. If I’m not told I’m doing something wrong sometimes I’m so used to people acting that way I can’t tell.
I actually completely agree that Mike is an asshole, he hurts people for fun, he’s cruel, mean, and vicious. I just don’t think he’s evil or understand why people are so mad about these specific incidents (again hurt to me means things that cause permanent damage I care about the consequences of his actions.)
Re: Sal and Dorothy – I don’t give a flying fuck how quickly they brushed it off. He basically came up to them and called them huge sluts for:
– In Sal’s case DARING to be happy she did well on a test in front of him.
– In Dorothy’s case daring to EXIST near him.
Yes, clearly this meant he has the right to come up and basically call them sluts. Clearly these two should have known better. How dare they! That is not a nasty joke – even if that is how he meant it, if the punchline is ‘you are a slut’ it is slut shaming and it makes Mike a slut shaming asshole. Full stop.
Re: Amber – BULLSHIT. RAW, UNABASHED *BULLSHIT*. Amber was doing absolutely nothing wrong that day. All she did was tell Mike she was sad she upset Danny and that she liked Danny because he was not like her dad. Mike took that to mean ‘I am doomed to follow my parent’s pattern’ when she said nothing of the sort and then told her that she was doomed to be her dad because obviously you’re doomed to end up like one parent or the other, right? Amber had not had any of the tendencies you’re talking about at this point, so saying he was calling her on them is straight up BS. You can’t call someone on things they haven’t done yet.
Amber being afraid of ending up in an abusive relationship is when you go ‘Hey, don’t worry, you pick really nice boys, they won’t hurt you and you are not, in fact, destined to fall for an asshole like your dad. You CAN break the cycle. If you’re worried about yourself or your partner, you’ve got friends and people have therapists for that, so no worries.’ Not ‘Eh, you’ll probably be just like your dad because you can’t possibly avoid being like one of them.’ “I want to find someone who won’t hit me” =/= “I want someone wishy washy and easily bendable to my whims”. By that logic, Mike would be fully justified saying that to Ethan, Danny, Sal, Billie, Ruth, or any of the other kids with abusive parents if they dared express a desire to find a partner who wasn’t an abusive fuckwad.
No. That is not how that works and fuck that idea straight to hell.
Mike was not telling Amber that to help her, he told her that because he sees open, seeping wounds and likes to go straight for them because he knows they will hurt. Amber did not need him to bypass what her actual problem and insecurity she expressed and go for a recently torn open wound.
If he WAS trying to help, once again he blew it straight out of the water. Amber was relatively stable-ish when her dad showed up, she recognized Sal, and then Danny was in danger. That’s about the time she got really bad. If you think Mike helped, you’re fantasizing. If anything, he made her far far worse because now she’s even more hellbent on being the ‘perfect alter’ AG and pushing away everything not perfect, basically doubling down and guaranteeing her anger issues, DID, anxiety, and PTSD will go without proper care. I’m not saying it’s 100% his fault, but he did NOT help and may have actually made her worse, thereby meeting your own guidelines for ‘actual harm’.
Re: Ethan – Again, bullshit. All he ever said about the matter was ‘Wow’. Wow could mean anything from ‘Wow, you are dumb and should not do this’ to ‘Wow, you are sad and desperate to go to church with this girl’ to ‘Wow, you have crappy taste and low standards in women’. Wow is not telling Ethan he was kidding, wow is vague. And even if he thought he was clear, when he realized later he wasn’t and that Ethan was in fact continuing on his offer, that is his cue to get Ethan alone and say ‘You are so dumb – I was JOKING. Stop being an idiot and dump her ass.’
His mocking helped drive Ethan back into the closet and fed his friend’s self loathing. He didn’t come back out until Joyce refused to basically reparative therapy him anymore. That is psychological and emotional harm. That is ON MIKE.
Not only did he not help clean up the mess he made, he actively kept picking and hinting that Ethan was gay in front of Joyce. She didn’t take the hint, but if she had? Mike would have just outed his so-called friend. I think we can all agree that that is shitty behaviour and could have gotten Ethan seriously hurt (even if Mike doesn’t think Joyce is a serious physical threat, for all he knows she’d come at Ethan with a weapon – it’s not as if she’s given Mike reason to believe she would never be violent over her religious beliefs. *cough*thedatewithJoe*cough*) or subjected to further emotional and psychological abuse. Some friend Mike is. He doesn’t get a pass because he didn’t succeed in outing Ethan.
His favourite targets here appear to be people he has social power over – iirc, his most frequent target has been Dorothy, either as his main target or as getting hit in the crossfire. He usually uses her relationships and sexuality as his weapons against her. His schtick is punching down. If he cared about misinformed, up themselves hypocrites, he’d have TORMENTED early Joyce. He didn’t. He kept his mouth relatively shut and took swipes at Dorothy instead.
Mocking Billie and Ruth in front of Walky is again, tearing at an open, seeping wound because he knows it’s open and seeping and will hurt someone who had the nerve to stand near him. I mean, Walky was STANDING THERE harming no one! Clearly he definitely deserved it.
And again, very slut-shamey overtones in it. The punchline was ‘Billie fucks RA’s and that is a thing she should feel shame for’.
Honesty has nothing to do with it. There’s a difference between being honest and being an abusive bully who searches for insecurities, fears, and open psychological wounds so he can stick a figurative pin in them for no other reason than he can until he’s hurt people. Mike is the latter. End of. Almost everything he’s done thus far has been punching down so far on people who reasonably speaking cannot socially acceptably fight back and using their pain and their fears and insecurities and societal everyday bigotries as weapons to hurt them with for no other reason than they were there and he’s an asshole who can.
You know what, there’s a new comic up I’m done with this. I don’t know how much of our difference in perspective is because of different experiences or moralities or because I read It’s Walky/Shortpacked first and my opinion is shaped by the (much more fleshed out) Mike in those, but I fundamentally think you’re wrong and it’s clear I can’t convince you of my perspective or visa versa so I’m going to drop this argument because it’s doing more harm then good at this point.
That makes sense, and I’m sorry to hear that’s the case. I guess the very idea of someone thinking that the way Mike acts helps people just viscerally pisses me off, and I misread the tone of your previous comment.
I could stand to keep my anger on a shorter leash, and I’m sorry about that.
I read Shortpacked first as well, but if you’re done, then fine. That’s fair. I’m sorry to hear you were upset by this argument and I hope you’re doing better soon.
@Fart Captor
It’s fine I’m not angry with you, I should have realized talking about subjective morality at all was going to start an argument (it pretty much always does.) I’m pretty bad at conveying tone in general much less in writing, so it’s as much my fault as your’s that you misunderstood how I meant it.
I kind of appreciated him in this strip, where he honestly seems to be trying to make a point to Joyce rather than make her miserable or get her in trouble. For a long time I thought that meant he liked her (by Mike standards) but now I think he was just having an off day. Either way, though, “he didn’t crush someone’s spirit that one time” isn’t much of a recommendation.
Honestly, backstory doesn’t really shift over the universes, though, so that’s not really an explanation here. Mike’s backstory is not the same. TBH, we don’t really know his motives – if he were trying to help, he sucks at it. People here end up better IN SPITE of him, not because of him. The hypocrisy thing doesn’t work because he only ever punches down, not up.
Yeah, I sort of gather that Mike was an asshole to assholes in the Walkyverse, but here in the Dumbiverse he really seems to be just an asshole to everyone.
Meh, he could be an asshole to everyone in the Walkyverse just fine there too.
He was just also better at pointing out hypocrisy and hard truths. But that doesn’t work in DoA. You need to hear that from folks you like, not That Asshole Down the Wing. Joyce needs to hear it from Sarah, Dorothy (and vice versa), or even Roz, Sarah from Dina, Sal from Marcie, Amber from Ethan or Danny, etc. Mike’s been edged out because his ‘softer asshole’ moments fundamentally don’t fit here in ways that other characters can’t perform better for the general plot needs. Need a troll? Carla lives in the wing. Wise ass ribbing? Becky and Walky are Joyce’s friends. An asshole who sometimes shows they care about others? Ruth, Billie, Sal, Carla, Sarah, etc. again all live here.
Throwing the Roomies, It’s Walky/J&W, and Shortpacked! casts all together marginalized Mike out of much of a useful role outside ‘mega asshole’ which isn’t terribly fun but is also one of the few functions the other characters can’t do better.
I’m actually sad that Ruth’s story has taken away her asshole moments. I would love, for instance, for her to manage her depression and arise to a new life she wants to live then reveal she truly loves hurting other people. 🙂
Yeah, she hasn’t had the energy to be an asshole the past few days. I’m sure she’ll be back to normal eventually, though maybe more ‘Billie’ levels of asshole than ‘old Ruth’ levels. She’ll be healthier by that point and so hopefully lesser levels of asshole will come from that.
I think the problem with Mike is he can’t be a kind of weird Coyote-esque Trickster mentor or Old Testament god here because, unfortunately, he doesn’t have the answers or real guidance. Also, so many internet assholes mirror him already. The problem of being a nihilistic misanthrope who rails at society is The Catcher in the Rye isn’t really to everyone’s tastes in DOA. They all have their own problems and Holden Mike’s war on phonies is just not a problem they care about.
To make up for Mike’s appearance in today’s webcomic, we now have a brand new Podcasting of Age episode! With everyone’s favourite “not really an asshole, just pretending to be one” character, the motherfucking goddess herself: Carla!
Also, I don't know if Cerberus was serious about doing one about Jason being a terrible teacher, but if she was, can I just get a hell yeah in advance? Because he is SUCH A HORRIBLE TEACHER.
(And my icon makes that like 20x more hilarious yay)
I think that you’re missing the point. Mike wants to break Ethan’s heart by seducing him and then dumping him. Why? Shits and giggles? Because he believes that all love leads inevitably to betrayal (and, if so, why isn’t he writing country music)? Either way, it isn’t as simple as sex in this particular scheme.
This fits into my theory that Mike is an aromantic pansexual. Literally he can perform with anyone without any emotional connection with the act. That’s… a remarkably dangerous trait, especially for someone as obsessively misanthropic as Mike is.
I figure he’s probably a demi-romantic, pansexual. He has fallen in love (in the other universe) it’s just really rare and requires just the right circumstances.
So, can someone refresh my memory to what actual evil Mike has done in DOA? I remember the pajama jeans, but you could make an argument for that being a positive thing long term.
A bunch of stuff other-verse mikes have done is truly heinous and horrifying, but other then being sarcastic and prickly, which more then a few other characters (Sarah) have been, I can’t seem to recall anything awful.
This is Mike beginning his seduction of Ethan, since it was going to be either Ethan or Danny to “turn the other into a jealous, whimpering mess”, and Ethan made Mike promise to leave Danny alone.
I accept the finale of Dumbing of Age will be Mike winning the Presidential election against Dorothy using her photos of Walkerton to display her lack of internet security.
I always forget how damn much I love Mike, honestly. I completely adored the little asshole in Shortpacked and I’m loving him here, too. He’s AWFUL, but like… Good-awful. Fascinating awful. Fun awful. (And he and Amber in Shortpacked stole my stupid heart.)
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Not really related to today’s strip, but rereading Shortpacked, noticed asshole guy is a shaved Toedad.
(man, toedad is totally babies mcintyre)
whoops, brokeded link
Something went wrong with that first link.
And now that my last reply has been rendered worthless, here’s a recent article about Tupac and Robin Williams getting busted in Arizona for trafficking weed.
…
The avatar choices in this exchange speak volumes.
So is Sean Hannity. No neck whatsoever. http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=132
when i think of people without a neck my first thought is bender bending Rodriguez even though he isnt technically a person.
Bender is a person… He is not a meatbag/ human… He is even bipedal humanoid
Phase 1 of the Seduction of Ethan begins
But what’s the angle this time? Who gets hurt? Surely not Amber again…
Danny. It’s in the link. He’s aiming for Danny.
Very perceptive, but I’m not sure that he’s not targeting Ethan by robbing him of his pastime. What could be more frustrating than having someone else make your arguments better than you could.
Having somebody make arguments for your opponents side that you know have to be false because OBVIOUSLY YOU’RE RIGHT but that seem to be as perfect as Mike’s are here, maybe?
Point. Due to comments below I’ve changed my mind and now think that Mike was both sides of the conversation and his target is seducing Ethan to leave Danny in emotional shreds. Thing is, due to Amber’s evolving view of Sal and versa, I’m not sure how solid the Danny/Amazigirl breakup is. Worth remembering is that Mike is DOA Mike and not fully developed Mike which means he makes mistakes, misfires sometimes, and sometimes reaches for the wrong goal. He hasn’t even discovered his alcohol related weakness yet.
The absolute worst is having someone make seemingly perfect arguments that support your case but are based on assumptions you don’t actually agree with, so when the other guy concedes, you have to say “Well, no – his conclusions are right, but his reasons are wrong”, and then the guy who made the argument in your favour accuses you of being a troll who just disagrees with whatever the last person said.
Someone has been spending too much time on the Internet. ☺
Nah, the absolute worst, is finding out that the person you’ve been agreeing with on some points, is a female MRA-supporter. Because it makes you disgusted you ever agreed with them on anything in the first place. And it makes you doubt your own opinions, because if they agreed with them, maybe there’s something screwed up in your own look at things as well.
That’s basically “begging the question”, or circular reasoning.
But you could just attack the premises and say “Why is this true? I don’t agree with this. On the contrary, I would say that …”
Danny!
Ethan, for starters, but Danny too. And since Amber cares about both it’s not gonna feel great for her either
Targets are both Ethan and Danny.
Ethan, nothing. If Mike knows how to win Internet arguments, I officially accept him as my Lord and Instigator.
…I once had an internet argument and both parties came out of it more enlightened than before. This happened at least three times, twice on Twitter and once on YouTube.
It can happen if both sides are reasonable people with open minds. So almost never.
I’m not sure how he’s going to manage simultaneously banging Danny and Ethan in different rooms this time around but then again I’m not sure how he managed that feat in Shortpacked! either.
While that’s one of my favorite pages in Shortpacked! where they try to figure out at which times Mike was where, I’m somewhat hoping he can manage a scheme of similar scope without actually banging anybody this time. As it is, he’s only aiming for Ethan directly, so he’s got to throw in an extra layer of mind screw to hit both him and Danny effectively. The sex would be incidental to anything of that magnitude. Or, you know, Willis has a better imagination than me. Which of course he does.
My theory is that since we only have a beginning first-level Mike in DOA it hasn’t even occurred to him that he could seduce both at once.
That sounds amazing… damn, there’s too much Walkyverse out there…
Sure, Mike claims he’s just doing this to seduce Ethan and be an ass, but if you check the encrypted drive on his computer, you’ll find GIGABYTES of CyGate fic, not mention his self-insert character Warnertron who is a brooding ex-Decepticon assassin (deep cover, which is why you’ve never heard of him) and tortured abut his past but totally coming to terms with it thanks to the love of Windblade.
…I am now imagining Warnertron and discovering that Mike’s hair actually works better on a robot than on a person.
…. wait, Mike claims he’s doing this to seduce Ethan?
And knowing is half the battle!
Oh, I know, but is he OPENLY claiming it where anyone can hear? That’s what I’m asking.
He claimed it to himself. Self deception is the first step.
“you’ll find GIGABYTES of CyGate fic, not mention his self-insert character Warnertron who is a brooding ex-Decepticon assassin (deep cover, which is why you’ve never heard of him) and tortured abut his past but totally coming to terms with it thanks to the love of Windblade.”
And all of this is just as a preparation to seduce Ethan and be an ass.
Because sometimes being an asshole is taking your thunder in a way that supports what you wanted anyway.
Meta-asshole.
Makes you wonder whether Mike supplied both sides of the argument. Finding people who are wrong on the internet may be easy, but finding such people admitting to be wrong is rare.
I hadn’t considered that.
I’m betting that’s it. Mike was both the stupid piece of shit who was wrong and then conceded, and the god of dismantling the stupid piece of shit.
That sounds much more plausible than someone just conceding defeat simply because they were presented with facts and a well-reasoned argument
Yeah, that makes sense. I was actually wondering how often it happens that someone admits they’re wrong on a forum.
People concede when they somehow WANT to concede, when they’re open for it.
It happens, but rarely, and is arguably not worth the effort because most of the time something down the road will change their life anyway.
Ethan’s fetish – incredibly comprehensive essays on transformers fandom.
Mike always knows exactly which lever to pull.
(the one in his pants, hurrr)
Will the Church of Mike get added to the list?
Of organizations approved by the government to receive tax breaks?
It reminds me of this song: (Take Me to Church).
….You’re right….that should be Mike’s theme song…or at least, that of his victims.
*Sigh* Internet argument feuds, always exhausting.
*plays U2’s “Mysterious Ways” on the hacked Muzak*
LIES, no one wins on the internet.
That’s where
headcanon“spin” comes in.Seriously, someone conceding an argument on the internet is the most unrealistic thing that has happened in this comic full stop.
And yet for Mike it was just the first step of a larger plan; just something to do when he’s bored. Damn.
I’ve seen and done it. I really have no idea why the hell y’all think this is impossible.
Will Mike demand submission, or sexual favors?
OR ONE THEN THE OTHER?!
Mike demands nothing. He pays for his sexual favors.
From your mom. For a nickel.
Actually, when Mike says that he had sex with a mom for a nickle, I don’t know that he’s actually said which of those two parties is paying the other a nickle.
While that is technically true, the implication has always been that your mother is cheap.,
Your mother’s so cheap, when Mike bangs her for a nickel, he gets back a dime in change.
So, both ways.
… and a whore.
Given the totality of the evidence of both universes, I’m pretty sure Mike /offers/ his own submission.
Mike wouldn’t happen to be Unknown Evil would he
I assumed that Unknown Evil would turn out to be Faz, but with that face Mike’s making there, maybe there isn’t so much of a difference.
Faz is 16, so I don’t imagine.
I thought DoA, unlike Willis’s previous comics, was supposed to have no sci-fi elements?
And now we have someone conceding an Internet argument.
Nonono. There’s a difference between science fiction and fantasy.
Science fiction is something that might technically be possible, one day.
such internet gods do exist, these mythical things i have seen
i even saw a conspiracy theorist concede once to one such god
Were both of them Mike?
As Palpatine/Sidious demonstrated, the best way to win is by playing both sides of the board.
It can happen, you just need both sides to be reasonable people, which is rare.
Based on the title, I’m guessing that some dialogue changed.
Maybe! But this is the second comic in a row where that happened, if so. But I imagine he’d acknowledge if he changed that policy.
Good ol’ Mike, helping others while making other others miserable.
He really is great at this.
Oh hell he was serious
Mike isn’t a god, his assholeness is just a force of nature.
What else are gods, besides personifications of forces of nature?
Besides, historically, godliness and assholeness have by no means been mutually exclusive.
This was going to happen eventually.
Let the seduction begin. I’m assuming.
Mike, just ask him out if you want a date.
Oh, a mere date isn’t what he’s after.
So.. just what did that guy get wrong about Transformers?
My guess is he keeps getting Hector Ramirez mixed up with Carlos Lopez.
NGL
This kind of feels like Mike has actually always been into Ethan on a shared-interest level, and wanted to pretend they weren’t real friends. Or maybe Mike is just dickish enough to pretend at interets in fandom just to checkmate Ethan.
…Or maybe Mike is actually into Ethan and Danny’s interest made him realise he had ACTUAL competition?
Yeah, that’s what I hope, that Mike act on real attraction, but is too caught in his own stupid bully-persona to act on it directly rather than through a stupid scheme.
I kind of hope so, too. Through a certain lens ‘look I won this argument for you’ is kind of like bringing flowers. Kind of.
I think we’re gonna find out just how dickish Mike can be. Possibly in more way than one
But he was considering seducing Danny as well.
ethan u are such a fucking nerd oh my god
The Last Temptation of Ethan
Ahh fuck.
All hail the great mike!
Man, it has been a while since I’ve laughed this had at a a strip. Something about Mike just…does it for me. That said, Ethan’s reaction to winning an internet argument is nothing short of perfect
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/641/906/ade.png
…. My judgment on Mike’s seductive powers may have been premature.
There is no greater feeling in this WORLD than being declared right on the Internet.
You are right.
Well this is uncomfortable.
I see some of you guys still enjoy Mike on some level. I used to just say “I don’t get it” ’cause I’ve never liked Mike, but in the last couple years it turned out that this character meant to be so over-the-top as to be utterly impossible (and therefore somehow funny) is not only 100% real, but he exists in droves that coordinate with each other to attack anyone they want, for any reason they want. My own sense of decency and empathy compels me to conclude that whatever joke there was to be had in Mike can never be funny again.
Sometimes I wonder what the comments would look like if instead of Mike working at Shortpacked we wound up with Mary, and how that would affect the way people see her later on in DoA when she gets up to her own “old tricks”.
It just bugs me, I guess.
The difference between Mike and Mary is that Mike attacks everyone pretty much randomly based on his whims, while Mary hates specific people for things they can’t control and will literally try to kill people via bullying. Mike hits people who can and do hit back with making them angry actually being his goal a lot of the time, whereas Mary literally wants to hurt people until they stop existing. Mike is just an Asshole but Mary is a Bigot, which is why (sometimes) Mike can be Funny Evil while Mary is always Evil Evil.
Agree in part with you. 100% on you assessment of Mary.
Mike is a bit more complicated then operating on a whim. He hits people in their vulnerable spots, not to destroy them I think, so much as to show them their own stupidity. After an encounter with Mike you view the world in a much different way.
And yes, Mike’s targets are those who can fight back if they get themselves together.
Mike once had a scheme going in Shortpacked in which he managed to snare 5 story lines with 5 of his compartriots at one time. And he zinged all 5 of them. Mike is never shortsighted in his plans.
I love Mike. He is a force of his own nature.
I did simplify Mike’s motivations a bit for the sake of keeping the post short, and I sort of agree with you on the hurting people to improve them thing, at this point I’m pretty sure Mike dislikes everyone, but hates hypocrites so outside of his random acts of evil he tries to get people to realize who they are for better or worse. (Like, he’d probably hate Mary because she claims to ‘love the sinner’ when she clearly doesn’t, but he’d have no real issue with Sydney because she’s evil but she’ll admit it to your face and never lies about her motivations.)
He’s an asshole who deliberately hurts his friends either to entertain himself, or out of the self-righteous belief that he’s helping them by toughening them up.
Really, the only valuable lesson Do a Mike has taught anyone is not to trust or confide anything in him because he will eventually use it against you.
Your mom wants to do a Mike. For a nickel.
(Sorry, I agree with you, but I am also a shameless opportunist.)
There’s no shame in shamelessness, because that’s what shamelessness means.
Except DoA mike opens up with trying to teach Walky a lesson re:those childish things you think are all you need are meaningless and will actually set you behind in life
I was going to ask if “I don’t (even) care no more” was from Bad Day but I looked up the lyrics and it’s actually “I don’t need no carrying on.” So carry on.
If Mary had been there she would have been an impotent pile of stuttering bigoted rage that everyone hated and was used as an example for their various complaints, much like the customers.
A lot of it has to do with context, for me. In Shortpacked, reality was way off from our norm. Ultracar, Robin’s insanity and ability to do Congress as her side-job from working at a toy store, it was all unreal to the point where Mike’s cruelty was similarly unreal.
I realize that things are a little off, here, with slow timeline that still keeps pace with our time, and with Amazi-Girl. But, it’s still closer enough that Mike really doesn’t have the same distance.
My view of Mike’s motivations goes something like this:
It is a mistake to think that Mike ‘enjoys’ any of his stunts. If anything, he seems mildly angry that he is right about what would fool, provoke or hurt them. To Mike, the world is an unrelenting tide of hypocrisy, greed, selfishness and self-deceit. He despises this world and all the people who pretend to have any happiness in it. Everyone should be bitterly resentful and vengeful about it, like him. No-one has the justification for being happy, so he has made it his life’s mission to expose the petty, selfish and malignant person they really are to their eyes.
He is hurting, constantly, by what he sees as a world full of smiling asks. He wants those masks all torn off to expose the monsters that he knows are hiding underneath. He knows himself to be a monster and he wants to live in a world where no-one pretends that they are not a monster. He will tear off their mask if they try.
AKA a self-righteous and self-obsessed asshole.
That sounds like a Mike problem, not an everyone-around-him problem. You may be right, but it’s not a justification for his behavior.
Mike has never been funny to me, because I’m really not sure where the joke is in a horrifyingly cruel white dude who is largely immune to consequences.
He’s a perfect example of “young white male privilege” with plenty of time and room to eventually become the perfect example of “rich old white male privilege”?
He’s already tried to antagonize Sara, and had Joyce not waylayed him to make him stop, probably would have been the perfect reason for her to flip her shit, but suffered no consequences (no one told him to fuck off, so he’ll still be walking to classes with everyone as far as we know, etc).
Would be interesting to see him meet and cause an issue with Jacob, who is probably one of the few characters I can see making a mockery of Mike by easily deflecting any physical or verbal blows the guy tries to make… unless the flaws of Walkyverse Jacob have carried over into Dumbiverse Jacob, and Mike decides to predate on them.
Ah, that’s what’s so different feeling about the mike from this universe and Walkyverse Mike. This Mike hasn’t suffered for his actions yet, Walkyverse Mike suffered repeatedly for his actions (was beat up several times, etc.) but since violence is treated more seriously here it hasn’t happened.
Mike in the Walkyverse was just “an asshole” put there as a convenient plot device to antagonize or tear down characters as needed, who was later made into something with a little more context, though his presence and actions still were more “force of the universe to forcefully teach lessons to everyone else how they’re awful and why they should think about what they’re doing or what they’re like”.
In this universe, he’s supposed to be an actual character who has, somehow, managed to have childhood ‘friends’ that have put up with and stay around him, despite knowing and experiencing that he won’t hesitate to criticize or rip at them no matter what happens because of his words or actions. We have yet to get any real insight to why he’s like that, since his family life seems to mirror what it was in the previous stories, and his presence/actions still seems more “plot device” and “universe enacts judgment upon ____ for their flaws” (example: Joe being a horndog towards Joyce on their date) than to have any real context to them.
Either there’s more to Mike ‘pursuing’ Ethan, or there isn’t, but if Mike were an actual person instead of a comic character, there wouldn’t be any real reason to like him or appreciate his actions regardless of his past or motivations. He would probably be someone that would set off a ton of red flags that most would seek to avoid.
God, I hope that’s not Willis’ intent with Mike because I’m so not cool with the character who apparently exists to teach all these minorities lessons and punish them for their hubris being a cisgender white dude that just has super unfortunate implications.
Well, if he were a transgender black dude that’d come with its own super unfortunate implications. Maybe this whole “Mike” thing was a bad idea in the first place.
Well, he could be a cisgender white dude that punched up instead of down.
It’s more that he uses that status mostly to attack the more vulnerable.
He’s also pretty relentless towards Joyce. I think he’s like South Park, where he thinks it’s okay since he hurts everyone equally but doesn’t realize that what he’s doing to those members of marginalized groups probably hurts way more than he ever hurts anyone else.
I dunno, Joyce handles him pretty well these days. Kicking him in the shins to get him out of the way. Shoving him away from Dorothy.
And of course, Joyce is a girl. Much like he tried to slutshame Dorothy, women tend to be vulnerable targets for edgelords like Mike.
I think he knows damn well what he’s doing and that’s why he’s picking the targets he is.
Of course, most of our crowd is marginalized one way or another. Maybe when he’s off screen Mike’s harassing the football team and all the popular kids. Doesn’t matter if we don’t see it.
…holy crap, I don’t think there’s a single straight white male in the entire core cast, upon thinking it over. To find one you’d need to either include Jason or look outside the school.
I just now realized this.
Going by the cast page?
We have 6 guys
Walky – biracial.
Danny – bisexual
Jacob – black
Ethan – gay, part Middle Eastern, jewish (I believe Willis has said his mother is Mizrahi Jewish)
Mike – not straight
Joe – jewish (which is its own ethnicity, albeit one that often has lighter skin)
Don’t offer him fruit as an offering, that did not work out well for Cain.
I think the problem was that Cain was offering Grade B fruit as an offering, you know, the crappy stuff that isn’t actually crappy but that looks crappy enough that nobody wants to buy it anyway so it all gets mulched even though it’s still edible and could go towards starving populations and yes I’m miffed about this.
France has ugly produce markets. They also made restaurants throwing out leftovers illegal – they have to donate them to soup kitchens and homeless shelters.
There’s not a lot of textual support for that. It’s an explanation that makes Cain look like the bad guy and God look justified, but all it really says is “Cain presented some of the land’s produce as an offering to the Lord.” and “He did not have regard for Cain and his offering.”
It’s still very much implied by any reading that takes into account the culture in which Genesis was written.
Near as I can tell, it’s a thing that has lots of debate with no clear answer.
Welcome to reality! Where math has proven that math is unsolvable (Gödel 1931).
Is Mike aiming for Ethan’s meat to mess with Danny? Hmmm
Oh my god Mike is going to prevent all his internet fights so he has to face awful reality. MIKE YOU FIEND!
Pssh. There are always more fights on the Internet.
I can’t possibly begin to describe how excited I am for this story.
Yea I’d get on my knees and worship Mike
Got to love Mike.
I am in agreement with Kater. I’m looking forward to this story line.
I love Mike.
Now I am wanting to know just how far he is going to push Ethan, and how far Ethan is willing to let him self be pushed.
Calling it now: The new master of Transformers internet debate is Mike. It’s an indication of how much work that he’s willing to put into his nefarious stunts that he must have spent ages researching and drafting that response.
I’m still wondering who the heck Ethan found to argue with in this Universe.
Has Duncan shown up in DoA at all? I know the Buckets of Bloof guy was in Amber and Danny’s compsci class.
He has! AG told him to either throw out his beer or relocate.
Oh no, Mike has started to become Faz!
“I am become Faz, disintegrator of everything respectable in the world.”
Run, Ethan. Run.
If only Mike using his powers for good…
If only Mike used his powers for good [sorry for second post… my grip on grammar is weak in the morning]
Define good. Carefully. Mike might be listening.
Yeah, I think he’s aware of us: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/nice-2/
I already hate this plotline and wish it wasn’t a thing.
That is an interesting fact about you. Why do you suppose you react that way?
Because Mike. I hate him and any time he’s involved it makes me super uncomfortable and now here’s a plotline that looks like it’s gonna revolve pretty much entirely around him gaslighting Ethan for essentially no reason.
When last we saw Ethan, it was bright daylight outside, and school classes were happening. Now look how dark it is.
How many hours has he been sitting in the exact same spot?
Is it odd that I immediately thought that this was a little bit of a dig at some people on Tumblr? Because I’ve seen things like that happen more than once for various topics there.
What, people having vitriolic fannish arguments? I don’t think that’s unique to Tumblr.
I used to go to school with a female, more socially cunning Mike. She would fake being nice to a person (we’ve never seen Mike do that to date) until they let their guard down around her despite her conniving reputation, and play nice just long enough to get something juicy that the other person was vulnerable with, which she would then play for laughs to the whole goddamn school.
My third grade teacher was a big part of why I was a pariah throughout my school years (8YOs are like a pack of fucking wolves and if the teacher singles out one kid as “prey” and gives tacit approval to treat that kid like shit, the kids will obey with glee), but that girl cemented it.
I don’t condone violence, but I spend most of Mike’s on-screen time wanting him to get punched in the face because of how much he reminds me of that girl – and this strip is no exception. I sincerely hope this plot line ends with Mike getting called on his abusive bullshit and frozen out from his victims. Not gonna happen, but hope springs eternal.
Fuck Mike.
Fudge Mike indeed.
It’s so bizarre to me that Mary is apparently the sum of all things evil but somehow Mike gets a pass and is apparently supposed to be a comedic character rather than a horrible abuser.
Mary is ultra-religious (a bad spot to be in on the internet) and has always been immensely self-righteous about it. Mike is entirely unrepentant and has never pretended to be anything more than an asshole (barring maybe his plot to make Walky look stupid in front of Dorothy, and by that I mean he was pretending to be doing Dorothy a favor, not that he was not an asshole). Meanwhile, Mary has zero people on her side while Mike ostensibly has Ethan and Amber in his corner, so he’s a little easier to empathize with.
He’s a slightly less dangerous Joker (which for some of us makes him less realistic, I’m sorry you had a person like that in your life, ischemgeek), while Mary hits closer to hole for those of us who came from religious backgrounds.
That’s my takeaway, though I’m only one person with one view. Mike’s not a good person and I wouldn’t spend time with him of my own volition, but he’s an occasionally obnoxious distraction for the most part. If you did what you could to steer clear of him, you’re unlikely to run afoul of him. Mary is more proactive.
Mike also comes in with a following from SP!, while Mary was either unknown or despised from Roomies.
IKR? In Shortpacked!, and even to an extent in It’s Walky, I could almost get it because it was a more cartoony and comedic universe. Consequences were never THAT severe and most of the time nobody got REALLY hurt.
Over here in DoA, that is not the case. He can (and has) caused some serious damage and he’s the fucking worst.
Okay, I have to ask because I’m drawing a complete blank here but when has Mike ever seriously hurt someone? He’s never done the focused bullying to suicide thing Mary tried and the only thing where he physically hurt someone was on Joyce’s date with Joe (and Joyce proved she would have punched Joe herself if Mike wasn’t there to do it for her.)
I guess he kind of tried to hurt Dorothy relationship with Walky but from the in perspective flashback it could easily be taken that he thought he was helping her (if for dickish reasons.) Is there something I’m missing/forgetting here or is his attitude just really people the wrong way?
Well,, for starters, he’s slut shamed both Dorothy and Sal. Then there’s the time he told Amber she was doomed to end up like her dad because she DARED search for someone benevolent (and no, ‘I don’t want to end up like my mom’ does not equal ‘well, if you’re doomed to follow your parent’s pattern’ it equals ‘My mom ended up in a bad relationship and I don’t want to do likewise’. There was no excuse for that and he was being a shithead). Or when he mocked Ethan back into the closet (I DON’T CARE if he didn’t think Ethan would actually listen to him – he did, and at that point Mike’s reaction should have been ‘Uh no, you idiot, don’t actually do it.’)
That’s all off the top of my head. Mike is a dick and a bully. Point blank.
There was also the time when Joyce was finding people to help watch for Toedad, and when he caught wind of it, he tried to bully her into telling him what was going on by suggesting he would try to sabotage her otherwise, and more recently, slut-shaming Billie about her relationship with Ruth (not to her face, but in front of Walky, who he KNOWS cares about her) the morning after Ruth was taken to the health center.
Seriously, the closest Mike has gotten to being nice has been all those times when he’s been in the strip but had no lines, and declining the invite to Joyce’s party
You could argue he was being nice to Joyce by agreeing to chaperone her date, but that was so he could be a dick to Joe (and it should be noted MIKE insisted on the punching element, not Joyce, though she later joined in because Joyce was being a dick too that day).
Sorry, been asleep for the last few hours but I think our definitions of ‘seriously harm’ are very different (I most define it by ‘does it cause major/long term physical, mental, or emotional damage.) The things with Dorothy/Sal struck me more as nasty jokes but even if they where something you could properly consider slut shaming, both of them kind of immediately brushed it off and didn’t really care, so while it certainly wasn’t good it also didn’t do damage.
The thing where he told Amber she could end up an abuser like her dad was true, that’s literally one of Amber’s biggest character flaws right now she’s making that mistake that Mike warned her she could make, again it was mean, but Amber kind of needed to know she could – and later did – have a problem on that front (at one point in my life I was accidentally bullying someone and I’ve always been super grateful to the friend who flat out told me I was being an ass, even though it hurt like crazy emotionally at the time I never would have gotten better without that pain.)
His reaction when Ethan went back in the closet was ‘no you idiot don’t actually do it’ just slightly more sarcastic than you put it.
And when Joyce was watching for Toedad Mike literally did not know what was happening and if he knew Toedad existed, well in Shortpacked people like him (major, unself-aware hypocrites) where Mike’s favorite target, he probably would have taken a swing at him.
The Billy/Ruth thing was something of ‘dead baby humor’ making fun of something in a situation that wasn’t funny, but not him saying they where wrong to be dating just making witty, mean commentary about it.
These things do show Mike is a dick but none of them are really damaging or even all that evil and I’m starting to think this is an irreconcilable difference in morality (I care more about the fact that he’s honest than that he’s unkind and you care more about the opposite.)
It’s a good thing Mike was there to prey on Amber’s deep seated fears and traumas by propping up a baseless stereotype of abuse survivors entirely based on her desire to have a partner who wouldn’t give her a black eye on a weekly basis. No one has ever driven themselves to harmful lengths over the fear that they’ll end up like their abuser and we need to make they’re properly shamed just so they know how shit they are.
If only Mike was there to tell Sal to stop being so black. Then she wouldn’t have robbed a convenience store. That’s how that works, right?
Fuck you and fuck every goatfucker who thinks like you.
@Rian:
That thing he told Amber was told in the most vicious way possible. Even if Mike had actually witnessed any of the times Amber lost her temper with Danny (he hadn’t), it absolutely did not help her, and even if he somehow thought it would, that doesn’t make it any better. If you think there was even a chance it would have, I hope to god you don’t know anyone who’s ever been abused.
The punchline of those “nasty jokes” directed at Sal and Dorothy was “you had sex and should feel ashamed of it”. That’s slut-shaming whether he intended it as such or not.
And it doesn’t matter what the fuck Mike actually thinks about Billie and Ruth’s relationship, he was mocking it right in front of someone he knows cares about Billie, in the immediate wake of a life-or-death emergency. There is no way to spin that where it isn’t vile.
Same goes for the situation with Joyce. He saw that she was looking for help, and that she was upset. His response to this would to try to bully her into giving him dirt he could use against her.
Worst of all, most of the people he targets treat him like a friend for god knows what reason, or at least inexplicably refuse to shun him.
Like, honesty is great and all, and I myself tend towards being blunt, but you can do that being an abusive, manipulative piece of shit. Mike frequently does not stop at “not avoiding or dressing up the truth to spare people’s feelings”, or even at the truth. He takes a kernel of truth and weaponizes it.
I actually have know someone who was abused, namely ME. My mother was a piece of shit who bullied and took her out on me until I was 18 and dad finally divorced her. I know sometimes it’s easy to accidentally start copying the behavior of your parents and I’ve always been grateful to the rare people who straight up called me on it when I started to fall out of line. If I’m not told I’m doing something wrong sometimes I’m so used to people acting that way I can’t tell.
I actually completely agree that Mike is an asshole, he hurts people for fun, he’s cruel, mean, and vicious. I just don’t think he’s evil or understand why people are so mad about these specific incidents (again hurt to me means things that cause permanent damage I care about the consequences of his actions.)
Sorry, I typed to fast I was a bit upset:
took her anger out on me
acting that way that I can’t tell
The others have been addressed, so let’s deal with Ethan: right after Ethan confesses his fear that he’ll never find a partner, Mike tells him that if he hadn’t come out to Amber, then while he would be living a lie, he wouldn’t be alone and miserable right now. There’s enough truth in that to hurt; there was certainly enough truth for Ethan to take it seriously–and there was no point in saying it unless he wanted to cause Ethan pain or send him back into the closet, or both. And when Ethan listened to him, then Mike got to judge him for it! Not to tell him he hadn’t meant it, or provide support of any kind. Just to judge him. Seriously, fuck Mike.
@ Rian –
Re: Sal and Dorothy – I don’t give a flying fuck how quickly they brushed it off. He basically came up to them and called them huge sluts for:
– In Sal’s case DARING to be happy she did well on a test in front of him.
– In Dorothy’s case daring to EXIST near him.
Yes, clearly this meant he has the right to come up and basically call them sluts. Clearly these two should have known better. How dare they! That is not a nasty joke – even if that is how he meant it, if the punchline is ‘you are a slut’ it is slut shaming and it makes Mike a slut shaming asshole. Full stop.
Re: Amber – BULLSHIT. RAW, UNABASHED *BULLSHIT*. Amber was doing absolutely nothing wrong that day. All she did was tell Mike she was sad she upset Danny and that she liked Danny because he was not like her dad. Mike took that to mean ‘I am doomed to follow my parent’s pattern’ when she said nothing of the sort and then told her that she was doomed to be her dad because obviously you’re doomed to end up like one parent or the other, right? Amber had not had any of the tendencies you’re talking about at this point, so saying he was calling her on them is straight up BS. You can’t call someone on things they haven’t done yet.
Amber being afraid of ending up in an abusive relationship is when you go ‘Hey, don’t worry, you pick really nice boys, they won’t hurt you and you are not, in fact, destined to fall for an asshole like your dad. You CAN break the cycle. If you’re worried about yourself or your partner, you’ve got friends and people have therapists for that, so no worries.’ Not ‘Eh, you’ll probably be just like your dad because you can’t possibly avoid being like one of them.’ “I want to find someone who won’t hit me” =/= “I want someone wishy washy and easily bendable to my whims”. By that logic, Mike would be fully justified saying that to Ethan, Danny, Sal, Billie, Ruth, or any of the other kids with abusive parents if they dared express a desire to find a partner who wasn’t an abusive fuckwad.
No. That is not how that works and fuck that idea straight to hell.
Mike was not telling Amber that to help her, he told her that because he sees open, seeping wounds and likes to go straight for them because he knows they will hurt. Amber did not need him to bypass what her actual problem and insecurity she expressed and go for a recently torn open wound.
If he WAS trying to help, once again he blew it straight out of the water. Amber was relatively stable-ish when her dad showed up, she recognized Sal, and then Danny was in danger. That’s about the time she got really bad. If you think Mike helped, you’re fantasizing. If anything, he made her far far worse because now she’s even more hellbent on being the ‘perfect alter’ AG and pushing away everything not perfect, basically doubling down and guaranteeing her anger issues, DID, anxiety, and PTSD will go without proper care. I’m not saying it’s 100% his fault, but he did NOT help and may have actually made her worse, thereby meeting your own guidelines for ‘actual harm’.
Re: Ethan – Again, bullshit. All he ever said about the matter was ‘Wow’. Wow could mean anything from ‘Wow, you are dumb and should not do this’ to ‘Wow, you are sad and desperate to go to church with this girl’ to ‘Wow, you have crappy taste and low standards in women’. Wow is not telling Ethan he was kidding, wow is vague. And even if he thought he was clear, when he realized later he wasn’t and that Ethan was in fact continuing on his offer, that is his cue to get Ethan alone and say ‘You are so dumb – I was JOKING. Stop being an idiot and dump her ass.’
His mocking helped drive Ethan back into the closet and fed his friend’s self loathing. He didn’t come back out until Joyce refused to basically reparative therapy him anymore. That is psychological and emotional harm. That is ON MIKE.
Not only did he not help clean up the mess he made, he actively kept picking and hinting that Ethan was gay in front of Joyce. She didn’t take the hint, but if she had? Mike would have just outed his so-called friend. I think we can all agree that that is shitty behaviour and could have gotten Ethan seriously hurt (even if Mike doesn’t think Joyce is a serious physical threat, for all he knows she’d come at Ethan with a weapon – it’s not as if she’s given Mike reason to believe she would never be violent over her religious beliefs. *cough*thedatewithJoe*cough*) or subjected to further emotional and psychological abuse. Some friend Mike is. He doesn’t get a pass because he didn’t succeed in outing Ethan.
His favourite targets here appear to be people he has social power over – iirc, his most frequent target has been Dorothy, either as his main target or as getting hit in the crossfire. He usually uses her relationships and sexuality as his weapons against her. His schtick is punching down. If he cared about misinformed, up themselves hypocrites, he’d have TORMENTED early Joyce. He didn’t. He kept his mouth relatively shut and took swipes at Dorothy instead.
Mocking Billie and Ruth in front of Walky is again, tearing at an open, seeping wound because he knows it’s open and seeping and will hurt someone who had the nerve to stand near him. I mean, Walky was STANDING THERE harming no one! Clearly he definitely deserved it.
And again, very slut-shamey overtones in it. The punchline was ‘Billie fucks RA’s and that is a thing she should feel shame for’.
Honesty has nothing to do with it. There’s a difference between being honest and being an abusive bully who searches for insecurities, fears, and open psychological wounds so he can stick a figurative pin in them for no other reason than he can until he’s hurt people. Mike is the latter. End of. Almost everything he’s done thus far has been punching down so far on people who reasonably speaking cannot socially acceptably fight back and using their pain and their fears and insecurities and societal everyday bigotries as weapons to hurt them with for no other reason than they were there and he’s an asshole who can.
You know what, there’s a new comic up I’m done with this. I don’t know how much of our difference in perspective is because of different experiences or moralities or because I read It’s Walky/Shortpacked first and my opinion is shaped by the (much more fleshed out) Mike in those, but I fundamentally think you’re wrong and it’s clear I can’t convince you of my perspective or visa versa so I’m going to drop this argument because it’s doing more harm then good at this point.
@Rian:
That makes sense, and I’m sorry to hear that’s the case. I guess the very idea of someone thinking that the way Mike acts helps people just viscerally pisses me off, and I misread the tone of your previous comment.
I could stand to keep my anger on a shorter leash, and I’m sorry about that.
I read Shortpacked first as well, but if you’re done, then fine. That’s fair. I’m sorry to hear you were upset by this argument and I hope you’re doing better soon.
@Fart Captor
It’s fine I’m not angry with you, I should have realized talking about subjective morality at all was going to start an argument (it pretty much always does.) I’m pretty bad at conveying tone in general much less in writing, so it’s as much my fault as your’s that you misunderstood how I meant it.
I kind of appreciated him in this strip, where he honestly seems to be trying to make a point to Joyce rather than make her miserable or get her in trouble. For a long time I thought that meant he liked her (by Mike standards) but now I think he was just having an off day. Either way, though, “he didn’t crush someone’s spirit that one time” isn’t much of a recommendation.
I think he was trying to bite her in the belief system and Joyce just didn’t get as mad or upset as he’d have liked.
In fairness we see Mike a lot more than Mary, and understand his motivations from his Shortpacked! iteration somewhat.
Understanding sometimes has people forget something doesn’t have to be condoned just because you get Why a person acts the way they do.
On the opposite side Mary is assumed by many to be the incarnation of terrible since we have not been given a backstory for her yet.
Honestly, backstory doesn’t really shift over the universes, though, so that’s not really an explanation here. Mike’s backstory is not the same. TBH, we don’t really know his motives – if he were trying to help, he sucks at it. People here end up better IN SPITE of him, not because of him. The hypocrisy thing doesn’t work because he only ever punches down, not up.
Yeah, I sort of gather that Mike was an asshole to assholes in the Walkyverse, but here in the Dumbiverse he really seems to be just an asshole to everyone.
Meh, he could be an asshole to everyone in the Walkyverse just fine there too.
He was just also better at pointing out hypocrisy and hard truths. But that doesn’t work in DoA. You need to hear that from folks you like, not That Asshole Down the Wing. Joyce needs to hear it from Sarah, Dorothy (and vice versa), or even Roz, Sarah from Dina, Sal from Marcie, Amber from Ethan or Danny, etc. Mike’s been edged out because his ‘softer asshole’ moments fundamentally don’t fit here in ways that other characters can’t perform better for the general plot needs. Need a troll? Carla lives in the wing. Wise ass ribbing? Becky and Walky are Joyce’s friends. An asshole who sometimes shows they care about others? Ruth, Billie, Sal, Carla, Sarah, etc. again all live here.
Throwing the Roomies, It’s Walky/J&W, and Shortpacked! casts all together marginalized Mike out of much of a useful role outside ‘mega asshole’ which isn’t terribly fun but is also one of the few functions the other characters can’t do better.
I’m actually sad that Ruth’s story has taken away her asshole moments. I would love, for instance, for her to manage her depression and arise to a new life she wants to live then reveal she truly loves hurting other people. 🙂
Yeah, she hasn’t had the energy to be an asshole the past few days. I’m sure she’ll be back to normal eventually, though maybe more ‘Billie’ levels of asshole than ‘old Ruth’ levels. She’ll be healthier by that point and so hopefully lesser levels of asshole will come from that.
Mein Gott. He’s really intending on sleeping with Ethan.
Somewhat unrelated, but for anyone who was curious about why Mary was undressed so many times in the afternoon slipshine will provide that answer.
That actually tempts me to renew my subscription. But not enough.
At least you won’t feel guilty when you’re done.
I think the problem with Mike is he can’t be a kind of weird Coyote-esque Trickster mentor or Old Testament god here because, unfortunately, he doesn’t have the answers or real guidance. Also, so many internet assholes mirror him already. The problem of being a nihilistic misanthrope who rails at society is The Catcher in the Rye isn’t really to everyone’s tastes in DOA. They all have their own problems and Holden Mike’s war on phonies is just not a problem they care about.
To make up for Mike’s appearance in today’s webcomic, we now have a brand new Podcasting of Age episode! With everyone’s favourite “not really an asshole, just pretending to be one” character, the motherfucking goddess herself: Carla!
THIS IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS!
I HAD NOT HEARD EPISODE 2.
WHY HAD I NOT HEARD EPISODE 2?????
YAY! <3 I love this podcast already.
Also, I don't know if Cerberus was serious about doing one about Jason being a terrible teacher, but if she was, can I just get a hell yeah in advance? Because he is SUCH A HORRIBLE TEACHER.
(And my icon makes that like 20x more hilarious yay)
Answer: Definitely maybe!
On one hand, he is not a major character in any way, but on the other hand, what he lacks in quantity, he makes up for in disturbing lack of quantity.
Plus, Cerberus is a teacher, and if there is one almost universal experience out there, it’s having had a horrible teacher at some point in your life.
I guess the longer we keep running this thing, the greater the odds are that he will appear.
*disturbing lack of quality
Neat! XD Yeah, I’m sure if you got her going, you could get at least a 20 minute episode out of it. XD
Also, just to clarify:
I meant that Cerberus is a teacher, and therefore knows a thing or two about bad teachers.
This was meant to be a separate issue from the almost universal experience of having bad teachers.
It was not my intent to make it seem like Cerberus was a bad teacher. I apologise for my horrible wording there.
Oh god, just ask him if he wants to fuck like a normal person would, Mike. Everything is so difficult with you.
I think that you’re missing the point. Mike wants to break Ethan’s heart by seducing him and then dumping him. Why? Shits and giggles? Because he believes that all love leads inevitably to betrayal (and, if so, why isn’t he writing country music)? Either way, it isn’t as simple as sex in this particular scheme.
This fits into my theory that Mike is an aromantic pansexual. Literally he can perform with anyone without any emotional connection with the act. That’s… a remarkably dangerous trait, especially for someone as obsessively misanthropic as Mike is.
But he can only perform with your mom if a nickel is involved.
I figure he’s probably a demi-romantic, pansexual. He has fallen in love (in the other universe) it’s just really rare and requires just the right circumstances.
I thought Mike said he WOULDN’T make Ethan sleep with him.
Maybe (not) on Opposite Day.
No, he said he was going to seduce Ethan in order to make Danny jealous.
He said he wouldn’t make DANNY sleep with him
No, he implied he wouldn’t seduce Danny.
Ninja-ed.
Sorry :p
So, can someone refresh my memory to what actual evil Mike has done in DOA? I remember the pajama jeans, but you could make an argument for that being a positive thing long term.
A bunch of stuff other-verse mikes have done is truly heinous and horrifying, but other then being sarcastic and prickly, which more then a few other characters (Sarah) have been, I can’t seem to recall anything awful.
Did it just slide out of my memory?
See my above response to Rian.
Don’t see one. Did you use a lot of links again, and get moderated?
Nevermind. Found it.
Oh Willis you did it you absolute damned man. As much as I’m enjoying the pinups I hope that doesn’t end comics since those were legit good reads.
Is this just Mike being nice for once to one of his only actual friends, via the only way that Mike does: being an asswhole to someone else?
Nope. This is Mike beginning his seduction of Ethan, since it was to “turn the other into a jealous, whimpering mess”, and Ethan made Mike promise to leave Danny alone.
WELP, I messed that HTML up but good.
This is Mike beginning his seduction of Ethan, since it was going to be either Ethan or Danny to “turn the other into a jealous, whimpering mess”, and Ethan made Mike promise to leave Danny alone.
I accept the finale of Dumbing of Age will be Mike winning the Presidential election against Dorothy using her photos of Walkerton to display her lack of internet security.
Noooo Ethan! It’s a trap!
So is Mike Jewish, or a Seventh-Day Adventist?
Mike continues to be, though not the best character, my favourite character.
Ethan is lured into following a new cult
I always forget how damn much I love Mike, honestly. I completely adored the little asshole in Shortpacked and I’m loving him here, too. He’s AWFUL, but like… Good-awful. Fascinating awful. Fun awful. (And he and Amber in Shortpacked stole my stupid heart.)