Nah, it’s the switch that toggles Dorothy between ambitious President-to-be, and total goofball who is inexplicably but adorably head over heels for Walky. 🙂
Ruth deserves to get fired. No matter how many demons in her closet, no matter how much WE, as outside observers, may like her, Ruth was a horrible RA. She physically assaulted and later sexually abused a student on her floor on…..a hunch. That’s what it was.
If a guy fought with a girl all the time, and then pinned her against the wall and kissed her forcefully on the assumption that she was straight and down for it, he’d be getting fucking CRUCIFIED in the comments section. But it’s a chick who has a suspicion that another girl might be bi and down for it, and turned out to be right so she gets a pass….somehow.
Weather or not she and Billie ended up together is irrelevant, that was inappropriate behavior that should have gotten her fired a long time ago. Daisy failed at ‘being an adult’ by acting like it was no big thing and laughing it off. Let’s separate gender from the equation for a second, an imagine that an 18-year-old student comes up to a trusted older colleague and tells them that their R.A. physically assaulted and then kissed them in the hallway, and said older colleague laughed it off as ‘just something that happens’, because they could see themselves doing the same. You’d scream abusive, you’d scream sexist, you’d scream monster if the genders were in one configuration but are somehow totally okay with it because the relationship in question happens to be girl-girl.
Seriously. What the fuck is up with this audience and cognitive dissonance. Ruth did something that would make her scum-of-the-earth to you if she was a man, but she’s not so she gets a free pass because….patriarchy, I guess? If everything that happened between Ruth and Billie happened, with Ruth as a man instead of a woman, you’d want him to be in jail right now, not just the psych ward, for being such an exploitative piece of shit.
Yes, because everything is about how badly men are treated by society. You just magically know that we would treat a male version of Ruth differently.
It can’t be that she has a mental disorder, and we know it’s morally wrong to punish someone for one of those. It can’t be that the actual comic flat out said she might not be fired–that it depended on her treatment.
We have to balance what’s right for her with what’s right for everyone else. Yes, keeping an abusive RA would be bad–which is why it’s up in the air. She may come back with the ability to handle things. She may not.
Trying to turn this into another male persecution fantasy does you no favors. Many of us (including me–see my avatar) are men, and we know we are not being persecuted.
And attacking all of us is not a good way to join our little community, or make us think you have any purpose but to hate on people you don’t like.
And, since your comment may wind up deleted for being a jerk:
[This reply is to a comment calling us hypocrites for saying that Ruth may still remain RA, saying that, if she was a man, we’d want her dead.]
How did you take his comment as an attack?
I don’t even think it’s a “WHY DO MEN NOT GET TO DO THIS?!” comment like you’re implying.
I thought he was just expressing a “Really…? REALLY?!” level of disbelief at the lack of reaction to that plot point.
He missed a couple of key points, namely that Billie isn’t really being sexually assaulted by someone who physically outclasses her (sorry ladies, average guy is stronger than average woman), nor is Ruth ACTUALLY assaulting her.
She kissed her, and when Billie resisted, Ruth immediately backs off.
It’s a heated moment, and something happened in it, but when it was clear the other party wasn’t into it, that was it. Shut down.
So yeah, that’s why no-one’s really up in arms, like he expected, and frankly, I doubt anyone would be for a guy in the same situation as Ruth.
As for Daisy laughing at it, Daisy asks Billie what exactly happened, and then when shown, Daisy is immediately into it.
Her “laughing it off” is because she’s furiously embarrassed that she basically responded as if Billie were actually trying to make a move on her.
I don’t think it’s fair to say “male persecution fantasy” when they haven’t said there’s anything wrong with what they believe would happen to a male Ruth.
Thanks, because I would be right with the crowd on that. People in positions of power should suspend their libido’s in favor of doing their jobs, irregardless of gender or psychological state, something Ruth failed miserably at. She should have admitted that due to her issues, she was incapable of being Billies R.A, and resigned before making any attempt to persue the relationship.
Instead, we’ve got this. It’s not that I don’t like Ruth, I do, I think she’s one of the most human characters in the comic, and being diagnosed with bipolar disorder myself, I feel for her psychological situation and am glad she’s finally getting help. But I also know that because of my issues, I shouldn’t be put into a position of authority, because my behavior is unreliable and erratic depending on my mental state, and she shouldn’t be held to any lower standard that that.
Having empathy for her and calling her out on having done things that are wrong are not mutually exclusive. I’d see her getting her job as R.A. back as quite the miscarriage of justice. Heck, just the fact that she started a fight with and laid hands on one of the students on the first day of the semester should have made it pointedly clear she was not cut out for a leadership position, which requires one be diplomatic. At the time, I let it slide as just being Willis’ penchant for the dramatic, but with everything that happened since it speaks to some much bigger problems about being in a position of authority.
Use of irregardless negates your entire argument. <- Grammar police.
Actually I generally agree with you. I don't particularly like Ruth in the first place (more a fan of the Walkyverse counterpart) and she has used her position in horrible fashion to abuse (both verbally and physically) the students she is supposed to be helping.
She absolutely does not deserve to get her job back.
It’s not “Morally wrong” to fire somebody with a metal disorder if the byproduct of that mental disorder makes them unable to do their job. Ruth is unfit for her position by dint of her actions, not her diagnosis. “But she has a mental disorder” doesn’t cut it, especially when your job is human services.
Are you saying that Willis can evoke empathy for a woman but not for a man? Because that’s what this is about, empathy, not politics. You stand by people who have done bad things, not because you defend what they have done, but because they are good people in bad situations and who knows what you would have done if you were in their shoes, which you’re not. None of us is perfect, and none of us is having empathy denied because of it.
In here with standard point about societal context. When a man does the sexual harassment shitty thing, it’s not just his shitty thing, it’s invoking a whole social ill. when a woman does a shitty sexual harassment thing, it’s just her.
(There are gender-reversed examples of this representative phenomenon, eg when a woman is bad at driving she represents womankind, when a man parks shittily it reflects only on him0
I disagree with the original commenter but I feel that to say “when a woman sexually harasses someone it’s just her” is a part of the problem. As the OP said we SHOULD be treating sexual harassment, in the real world, the same way REGARDLESS of gender or sex. It might be “societal context” but that’s a PROBLEM.
Im much too lazy to go back and find it but I would be very very surprised if the comments for those original strips weren’t full of people expressing shock and condemnation for Ruth’s actions. I didn’t comment myself (first ever comment here) by I remember being absolutely disgusted by Daisy’s reaction.
And, yes, the fact that she did that from a position of power probably means she shouldn’t have a position of power again. No gendered element to it whatsoever. However, within the context of the comic, only Billie and Daisy know about that incident. Daisy is fairly unlikely to say anything now because of how terrible the fact that she dismissed it initially makes her look and Billie isn’t going to do anything that might get Ruth fired. As far as Ruth’s bosses know (and correct me if I’m wrong here) Ruth’s major transgression, other than having a mental breakdown, was a consensual and mutual relationship with someone from her floor. There are plenty of reasons why that’s inappropriate but not necessarily an auto firing offense.
As for why we, as readers, might want her to keep her job even though we know she wasn’t good at it, well, others have said, empathy. A lot of us like Ruth, some of us see aspects of ourselves in her. Some of us like her relationship with Billie (destructive as it might be). Some of us may just be suckers for a bespectacled redhead with a penchant for violent outbursts. And if we want to get into gender doubled standards, how much of fiction is male protagonists who should absolutely be fired for gross misconduct due to violence, aggression and occasional sexual harassment and who somehow keep both their jobs and the audience’s sympathy?
Ignoring that Ruth has taken and continues to take a lot of crap for that among the commentariat. Justifiably.
She didn’t get fired for it because no one in authority knew about it. And Daisy, who could have reported it, screwed up because of her own issues. Which is a pretty likely result, though usually for different reasons, of reporting any kind of sexual harassment.
We’ve pretty much moved past it because Billie has, though worries about the abusive relationship keep coming up. Not so much at the moment because Ruth’s in the hospital, but there’s still a strong keep these two apart and kick Ruth out of the RA job sentiment around here. That incident is one that comes up again and again.
And this is why students should have access to affordable education. She shouldn’t need to remain in a job she can’t actually do in order to be at school.
Her alternative is to try student loans which will either crush her finances or involve help from her grandfather, an abusive asshole it would be a bad to stick her in further dependence on again.
In addition to all those buzz words, Roz would probably be FAR more effective at making the space trans-safe.
And she’d have a lot of fun doing so.
I’m kinda imagining Dorothy go the “let’s get a mediator in here” or “calmly explain things to Mary in a reasonable and rational manner until she understands” routes.
I generally don’t use the word ‘irresponsible’ for people who volunteer for grunt volunteer work, especially not without evidence they’re blowing off their other obligations. Am I forgetting the latter?
Well, Dorothy is a cisgender, heterosexual, white moderate with political aspirations she’s effectively useless as an advocate for any marginalized group so long as she prioritizes maintaining a squeaky clean record of not rocking the boat.
She has however (correct me if I’m wrong) shown herself to be an ally who I can genuinely see being an ACTIVE ally, much like Joyce. She’s seen people she knows go through struggles for being LGBTQA and I think Dorothy has the sense to know her privilege and the empathy to know they need a voice in the dorm.
In Ruth’s place, back when Mary actually attacked Carla, I doubt Dorothy would have gone for a mediator or explaining to Mary, she would have followed the rules and reported Mary to the proper authorities – probably Chloe. Mary wouldn’t have had any blackmail material.
Now whether those authorities would have handled the situation well, I don’t know, but I can’t really see Dorothy doing anything else.
She’s also already cause a scandal for the school. If she’s talking about herself, that application would get denied so hard it should retroactively change this strip.
Seriously. Roz takes civil disobedience way too far, and plays with the idea of a moral stance more than she actually adopts one.
This is the same girl who threw the party Joyce was attacked at, and despite there being a CROWD of people who saw and heard what happened, didn’t seem to know about the assault.
The same girl who published nude images of Joe without his actual consent.
The same girl who tried to exploit her teacher’s romantic feelings for her own political gain.
Roz didn’t do any of those things.
– she attended the party. (The guy who threw it drove Joyce and pals home and swore he’d call the cops if he saw Ryan again.)
– when she gathered that something major may have happened at said party, she gave Joyce a resource (card to the mental health center) even though they aren’t friends.
– Joe happily consented to being filmed and shared.
– Roz hoped that her sister would listen to Leslie and her teacher gets a girlfriend she likes, and saw it as a win/win to play wingman.
Also, Leslie KNEW that’s what Roz was doing, 100%, and went along with it. And it wasn’t for her own political gain, but rather in hopes of reforming her sister for the betterment of all, including her sister.
Yes. Roz can definitely be a jerk, but she got permission for all of these things and attending the party where someone got assaulted doesn’t necessarily mean that anyone besides the victim/victim’s friends will report it or even know – other people are responsible for their own actions, too.
Really? Permission? Because Joe seemed rather surprised to learn that the tape he thought would stay between them was instead splattered all over the internet.
You need to reread that storyline again, because Dorothy asks him if Roz asked to put it online and he said ‘Heck yeah, when you meet a chick who wants to frigging make a sex tape, you totally jump that no matter what’. “No matter what” being in reference to it going online.
As I stated below, there are degrees of exposure. Joe did NOT know Roz was the sister of a congresswoman. Joe did NOT know that the tape would go viral because of this relation. Joe did NOT know that it would be released to a major publication. Joe did NOT know it was a deliberate attempt to gain some exposure in the name of sexual empowerment.
He did NOT have all of the information, and battling semantics of ‘She told him THIIIIIS much’ doesn’t change the fact that she withheld information and exploited him for her own personal gain.
No, she didn’t tell him that, as far as we know. That is not what you were arguing. You were arguing that she didn’t tell Joe it would be published period. That is not what happened. Don’t backpedal on that.
Also, the only place we know she released it was online. No major publications we know of.
Shame on you for thinking I’m so stupid I can’t remember two seconds to see what you were arguing five seconds ago.
Also, does Joe really have a RIGHT to know that Roz is celebrity-adjacent? Right to find out that she’s of legal age before doing anything with her, yes, right to know he’s being recorded, yes, right to know and consent to it going on the internet, yes.
But is she morally required to say, “hey, stop, I have to tell you first who my sister is”. I mean I can see an argument for that, but isn’t Robin’s party and politics ALREADY invading enough bedrooms as is?
If you know the media are swarming the celebrity right now, which Roz does? Yes. that *SPECIFIC* thing, int hat *SPECIFIC* context, is abso-fucking-lutely, a thing Joe has a right to know. There’s a reasonable expectation of negative fallout for him.
There /wasn’t/, and except when Danny gave him a scare after the fact, he wasn’t even really worried about it. But because there’s a real cost to him, or at least, good odds of it, he gets to know that.
Lailah: “media are swarming the celebrity right now”?
She’s a congresswoman. She’s running for reelection, like she does every two years. Like all 400 odd Representatives do. Beyond that was there any reason to think the media were paying attention to her?
Thank you for these receipts. Roz can go about things in a loud, unsubtle way sometimes, but the things that people in the comments often accuse her of are mostly not things she has actually done.
Firstly – Okay, she attended the party. The strip was old and I was mistaken – HOWEVER
– She only gave Joyce the card after it was made clear that something had occurred. Something which she only made worse with insensitive comments concerning a disturbance that she didn’t bother to learn about.
-Joe did *NOT* consent to the film being shared. He knew it had been filmed, but was not informed that it would be made public. He was completely in the dark of how it would be used. He later, after the fact, agreed to forgive her and move on, but that does not make her actions appropriate.
– Leslie is the VICTIM. Roz knew that she had feelings for her sister, knew her sister’s stances on homosexuality, and strung her teacher along in a half-baked plan to gay the bigotry out of Robin.
– …Well yeah, it’d be weird to just hand Joyce the card before she knew anything happened. At best it’d go like this – “Hey, random girl from my gender studies class, here’s a number for a rape crisis hotline!” “Um….okay? Thanks?” As far as she was told, it ended because of a fight – that sounds plausible enough for a college party, so she had no reason to question it until she saw Joyce and Dorothy get upset.
– Bullshit. Dorothy asked him ‘did she tell you she was going to post it online’ and Joe said yes.
– Leslie knew what the plan was. She’s the one who EXPLAINED the plan to Dorothy. Leslie also knew Robin’s stances on homosexuality, as she made perfectly clear in this discussion. It blew up in her face, but Leslie walked in with eyes open.
– The problem isn’t when she presented the card. The problem was she mocked the “drama” without bothering to learn what had happened or who was involved. There were DOZENS of people who saw the exchange, and if she CARED about the people she ASKED to attend, she would have BOTHERED to learn more about what happened.
– Some of the details of that exact plotline are a bit fuzzy (It was YEARS ago), but there is absolutely no denying that Joe was not given the full story.
Roz intended for the tape to be leaked to the press, knowing that it would go viral (Since she was the sister of a congresswoman who stands for “family values”). She knew, with no degree of doubt, that THOUSANDS of people would see the video. That both she and her partner would be thrust into the public eye…
Which Joe was COMPLETELY unaware of. When he saw the article, he didn’t even know that Roz was a public figure. He most likely thought the tape would have a small following, he would remain anonymous, and just have an ego-trip at the few people who viewed it.
Roz gave him NO warning or context behind her plan.
– Leslie’s feelings were exploited by Roz. She knew the “plan,” but Roz was the orchestrator who put Leslie in a highly compromised position which could have BLOWN UP IN HER FACE.
– She complained for two seconds about the party ending. And again, Roz had no way of knowing they were involved in the circumstances surrounding the party ending, which makes sense because SHE WAS TOLD IT ENDED BECAUSE OF A FIGHT. She has no reason to assume Joyce and Dorothy were involved in said ‘fight’ considering neither of them are the type to throw down.
– Yes, Roz did not give Joe the full story. That is NOT what you were arguing before. You were saying Roz did not ask permission to put it up online at all, when that is incorrect. THAT is what I objected to. Saying she didn’t give him the full story? Yeah. That IS true and it is more than fair to dislike her for that. You don’t need to pretend she didn’t ask things she did ask.
Although, again, you’re saying she leaked it to the press, which we have no reason to believe she did. All we know is she posted it online. The press ended up covering it, yes, but we were never told she leaked it anywhere but online.
– Leslie is the one who knowingly, willingly, 100% agreed to the plan. Had she said ‘No, Roz, don’t try to hook me up with your sister’, you’d be right. Had Roz randomly dropped Robin on her, you would be right. Roz came up to her and basically said ‘Hey, you like my sister, I want my sister to have an adult who disagrees with her bigotry to talk to, can I hook you up?’ And Leslie said yes. If that’s ‘exploitation’ then you have a low standard for it.
All of this. Roz irks me to no end some times, but blaming what happened to Joyce on her, even indirectly like this (and yes, that’s basically what you’re doing, Tilty) is completely ridiculous.
Actually, I agree that since Roz invited Dorothy and Joyce, she should have at least checked on them. There’s a reason Joyce ended up one-on-one with Ryan, and while Dorothy was majorly disoriented herself, Roz kind of should have paid some attention to ‘new freshmen who had never been to a party before’. IMHO. PARTICULARLY when she heard there was a fight.
@ Liliet – Roz is not the reason Joyce ended up alone with anybody, nor was she there with them. By the time she heard about it, the girls were probably long gone. And again, hearing there was a fight =/= that they were in a fight, nor does that really seem likely they were considering it’s Joyce and Dorothy. And when she found out something DID happen, she offered her the card. Roz may not have done everything she could have, but she didn’t do anything wrong at that party either.
@ Pat – I think we have different standards for throwing down. I’m thinking ‘getting into a physical altercation with the intent of causing real harm against a person who intends to cause her real harm back’, which doesn’t happen to Joyce very often. Even if you do consider her the kind to throw down, she certainly wouldn’t have seemed so to Roz in the first week (where she seemed naive, prissy, pretty cheerful, and kinda childlike), and so she still probably wouldn’t have made the link between ‘those girls I invited’ and ‘a party ending fight happened’.
-we you discounting Roz for saying something oblivious about the harm that happened? Have you even READ this comic?
-yes, he did
-her sister’s stance on homosexuality has always been “I need to say homophobic things because that’s what gets me votes”.
I agree with most of that, but if you really think Roz “takes civil disobedience way too far”, I’d hate to know what you think of people who actually, like, go out and protest.
I have absolutely no problem with people protesting.
I have a problem with someone exploiting others for their personal political gain with no concern for the repercussions. Honestly, as far as I am concerned, Roz is a sex offender. Yes, she received Joe’s consent to tape their sexual encounter (As the posters above are quick to jump on) but she did NOT have permission to DELIBERATELY and KNOWINGLY distribute that video. She completely violated any degree of trust, and honestly Joe could have sued her ten ways from Sunday, and would have been in the absolute right.
Joe DID agree to it being put on the internet, not just to it being filmed. Roz asked him ‘Is it okay to put this on the internet?’ and he said yes. This has been confirmed fifteen million times and it’s time for people to quit harping that she didn’t ask to publish it.
She said put it on the INTERNET, NOT use it as a political piece to further her cause. There’s a difference between uploading an amateur porn piece to some shady website in the middle of nowhere, and releasing a sex tape to a major publication to slander the reputation of a perceived political opponent.
A) No, no he didn’t. I’m not arguing that. I’m arguing you said she never asked to post it online, which she did.
B) Nobody ever said she released it to a major publication. Major publications ended up publishing it, but the only place we know she released it was online (I seem to recall someone saying Youtube/Porntube, but that might be my memory).
You’re just trying to fit the facts – as you’re being informed that you remember events incorrectly – into the opinion you’ve already finalized. Joe could reasonably have been expected to know Roz’s sister was a congressional representative (or he could look it up), and he was clearly fine with it. Let’s save the sex offender label for people who actually commit an offense.
No, Gwen, I am recalling a particular panel that I read years ago, where Joe expressed confusion, anxiety, and fear over realizing he was the doofus who was caught on tape with the Congresswoman’s little sister. Not, admittedly, I had forgotten some of the following context (Again, I don’t reread this comic front-to-back regularly), but that exchange is very vivid in my memory.
Thank you for clarifying that Joe was somewhat aware that the tape would be put online, however it doesn’t change the fact that he did NOT know how it would be used. That context was CRITICAL for consent.
Tilty, do you have a link to the panel in question? I can’t seem to recall or find the comic you are referring to, and I think that’s what makes it harder to form an opinion on what you’re saying about it. Obvs I can keep paging through the archive, but I thought maybe you’d have it at hand.
If I am right, I can see confusion, but the only anxiety and fear was from Danny. Joe was hiding in his room, but he also explicitly said that was due to Danny freaking out.
That said, he was confused by it, so yes – Roz did not tell him she was related to Robin.
Joe didn’t know she was the sister of a congresswoman, that much is true. He did however consent to making a sex tape and knew it’d be put online. How it’s used after that really doesn’t matter all that much. And no, he wasn’t upset about it after the fact- The only reason he locked himself in his room was because Danny was the one freaking out and told him to stay put. In the same comic that he establishes that Roz asked permission for both recording and posting the video, he also establishes that he’s going to hit her up again. He doesn’t regret his actions or the outcome, the only person who freaked out was Danny because he was worried they’d be hounded by media.
You really are applying negatives to Roz that just don’t exist. Could she have been more forthright about who she was related to? I guess so, but it’s not really her responsibility to do so. Joe gave his consent for the things that had to do with him, and Roz was under no obligation to reveal every detail about herself that could possibly be relevant later down the line to make that consent legitimate.
He changed his stance on “dumbass” and “his ass is gras” awfully fast once he realized it was him.
This is his self image of cannot do wrong kicking in.
Yeah, to my mind not telling him she wanted that sex tape to influence the election by making her sister look like (the) a hypocrite (she is) makes his consent uninformed and therefore void.
Was Roz gesture really putting her hat in the ring or just pointing out that Dorothy’s words don’t win the show for her?
In order:
1: She didn’t throw the party, not that that’s really relevant to your charges. She seemed to offer Joyce a card for a good therapist without ANY external prompting. That implies she knew. And for the record, most of that crowd did not know what happened. They knew that Sarah and Joyce each struck a dude, Sarah while declaring herself an angel from the old testament god.
2: Joe has been covered. You are /really/ arguing this badly. That one’s probably your best point, because not mentioning she’s semi-famous when that could be a complication against him. That’s bad, I guess, but I balk at the idea that your entire history is permanently up for display to all and sundry because of a hookup. The salient point is that there was a /potential/ cost to him from this one – and one he didn’t agree to beforehand. Given he was fine after, acting like she’s really got anything in common with that one asshole Sarah and Joyce beat, strikes me as a bit fucked up.
3: WHAT. What in the fuck. It’s not really ‘political gain’ to get your sister to stop being a flaming asshole – much less when the groups you’re trying to get her to feel empathy for, POINTEDLY DO NOT INCLUDE YOU. And that is /not/ an aim that Leslie was averse to. She /agreed/ with Roz that it was the idea. It’s just that hearing Robin say that shit was just too awful and she couldn’t keep trying.
Like, what in the actual /fuck/, we are going down some serious memory hole bullshit to pillory the latin@ aren’t we.
1) She didn’t know at first. They met up before class, she joked about the “fight”, Dorothy started to say something horrible had happened, but Joyce shut her down because she didn’t want to talk about it.
After class is when Roz approached her and gave her the therapist card.
Two different scenes, so if you just check one of them, it’s not clear.
Hm, got it. But either way that’s… that’s really not common knowledge at the party. The guy who ran it knows to look for him, but most people pointedly don’t. If everyone, or even most people, at that party knew Ryan was the rapist asshole he is, he’d already be screwed.
That’s not a fair comparison, Roz is actually a generally decent person with a moral compass that doesn’t point directly at herself. This would only be comparable to the presidential election if it were like Dorothy vs. Mike.
This exactly. In a lot of ways, she’s a left-wing counterpart to Mary. She may not actively be a sadist like Mary is, but she’s got the mindset of “if you disagree with me, you’re not just wrong, you’re a Bad Person(tm)” down. If she thinks someone is Wrong, she cannot even pretend to meet them halfway or consider their point of view, and is willing to be actively cruel to prove a point.
Exhibit A: Hatched a plan to try and out her older sister. No matter how hypocritical she is or terrible her politics are, outing someone against their will is a shitty thing to do, but Roz felt that it would be justified because she is Right and Robin is Wrong.
Exhibit B: When Joyce was JUST starting to understand how badly the LGBT community can be treated by the church, Roz took the opportunity to kick her while she was down. It wasn’t a productive thing to do by any measure, it just made Roz feel good to be able to be Right and tell Joyce that she was Wrong. And when Leslie called her out on it, Roz just got pissy, because clearly if she’s Right, then anything she says to someone Wrong is justified.
That said, calling her a left-wing Mary is definitely an unfair equivalence.
My jury’s out on A, mostly because I don’t know if there’s been any sign of Robin’s orientation to be outed in the first place.
B was bad, but that was frustration and exasperation speaking.
What Mary does is calculated sadism, manipulation, and extortion. She’s LEAGUES worse than anything we’ve seen out of Roz. Not her mirror image on the opposite side of a spectrum.
Roz is her sister and has probably seen lots of those flirty/blushy looks directed at women in the past.
It’s never been explicitly stated, but the whole storyline, whatever Roz’s motivation, makes no sense if Roz doesn’t have good reason to think Robin’s queer.
She probably has, but we haven’t seen any of that, only her planning after Robin made goo goo eyes at Leslie, which by itself would be flimsy, and its the only evidence we know of that she has.
Yes, but …
We haven’t seen extensive flashbacks to Roz & Robin’s past. Nor have they talked about it. If Robin really has never shown any signs of interest in women, other than that one look at Leslie we saw, then the whole subplot is just bizarre.
In theory, Roz could be misreading whatever it is she’s seen, though we know she’s not for meta-reasons, but she’s got to have some reason to think the plan has a chance. If that’s her first hint that Robin isn’t straight then she’s far, far more of an idiot than I think she is.
I read much of that plot as an attempt to get Robin to admit to herself that’s she’s attracted to women.
And like I said, I think you’re probably right. It’s not something we can say for sure happened, but it seems likely that she’s seen similar little glances and hints in that direction before.
I have to agree with you here. Roz does seem to tend toward a ‘with us or against us’ attitude, but mostly means well, whereas Mary has turned out to be borderline sociopathic with her deliberate cruelty and utter lack of empathy.
Is “with us or against us” really an inaccurate attitude to have though? Because if recent events are anything to judge by the people who aren’t actively with us seem more than happy to throw us under the bus when push comes to shove.
Yep. People are dying out here, folks. I’m okay with not trusting certain people, especially if they even only like people like me conditionally. These folks do not care. So why should I?
Is “neutral third party” really what’s wanted though? How does it even apply to being an RA?
To the extent it’s a qualification, it’s an argument for bringing someone in from a different floor with no personal connections.
I think it speaks more to the ability to not push your opinion on someone else when they try to talk to you about stuff. For example:
Student: My boyfriend is so great, blah blah, and one time I did this and and he yelled at me in while we were out having dinner.
Roz: Don’t you know that’s abuse!!?? We have to do x,y,z ..
Student: *never comes back to speak to Roz again*
In that scenario, freaking out and lecturing the person about right and wrong scares them away. You have to center it on them, talk about their feelings, get them to come around if they want to, and that’s a *slow* process.
Sure, and I could see Roz having trouble with that.
I was thinking more along the lines of “neutral third party” between abused and abuser or between bigot and target.
Did Carla, for example, need a neutral third party when dealing with Mary? No. She needed an authority figure on her side.
Yes, I agree – Carla needed an authority figure, and the approach is different in different situations. To the example I used above, the *right* thing would be for the girl to stop dating her boyfriend who abuses her, but the reality most of the time in DV situations is that the SO will take a very long time to come to that conclusion, and goes back to the person several times.
Obviously the RA can’t do much if the victim doesn’t want to do anything about it, but my point is exactly that – some problems are simple to solve (get Mary disciplined) and some are more complex even though one might think the answer is black and white. In a lot of cases, you’ve gotta meet people where they’re at.
I was thinking ‘neutral third party’ in a sense of mediation, particularly when one side doesn’t have a huge power advantage and isn’t quite so black-and-white wrong as with the above examples of Mary or relationship abuse.
(And I absolutely agree, Mary’s hate towards Carla doesn’t call for neutrality.)
I was thinking more like Grace/Mandy: everyday conflicts between roomies of equal power, where nobody is all that Right or Wrong, where you just have to chat together and listen to each other and find out what works for everyone. In such a situation, I’m not sure Roz could resist picking a side and campaigning for it. 🙂
However, if she or her residents know that about Roz, they could go to the campus mediation center, so maybe it’s not such a dealbreaker.
…. actually, Joyce would be a decent RA in most respects, with three problems.
First she’d get on everyone’s nerves trying to get everyone to come to things like once-a-week Christian Board Game nights. She wouldn’t force them, but she’d nag incessantly.
Second, she would not command respect.
And third, she would not be able to deal with a hostile or resistant student or trespasser. If the confrontation got anywhere near bad, she’d freeze like a deer in the headlights.
…She might actually get in trouble for the first one. Trying to pressure people into going to anything religious or religiously themed would be a no-no (and I doubt she’d be able to argue incessant nagging doesn’t count as trying to pressure them).
And on a note related to the third, if someone DID manage to piss Joyce off badly enough, she could seriously hurt them and open herself and maybe the school to lawsuits/excessive force charges.
I’d like to think that Joyce wouldn’t swing unless the other party had already been demonstrated to be violently dangerous, eg Ross firing a rifle, and would instead transfix them with a glare of maternal fury and read them the riot act.
Which probably wouldn’t work on some of the more anti-authority students. I guess with Sal she could appeal to the fact Sal basically seems to see her as a little sister-ish figure. Carla and Roz? Good luck, kid. You’ll need it.
Like when she gave Wally the riot act for breaking up with Dorothy which was effective. Honestly, she can stand her own in argument and verbal combat. Since she feels comfortable in the dorm, I don’t know that her anxiety issues would have much effect.
Roz, you’re supposed to actually make the game show buzzer noise, not just say “Game show buzzer noise”. Fuck’s sake, this is like people who say “Sigh” out loud.
Yuo. The characters aren’t dumb- er… okay, the characters are about as clever as anyone else, including the commenting demographic, so it’s a logical conversation.
The fact that it’s basically yesterday’s comments leaves me hungry for the next strip now, though, which really just adds beautifully to the DYW.
I think it’s a testament to Willis’ writing chops how often he can respond to stuff like that basically months in advance.
Unless he’s secretly rewriting the strips on the fly and it’s all a big conspiracy…
It’s October 4th in comic, roughly, so no. Granted, I’m sure some classes have had grades by now (quizzes, early midterms, essays, reviews, short papers, etc.)
Head-cannon: it’s in a perfectly organized portfolio, along with various awards and certificates of achievement and a reply letter from Ruth Bader Ginsburg answering her elementary-school political question and wishing her luck.
Faz, though, has many crudely-drawn pictures of genitalia, but they’re not recognizable as such, because Faz does not know what genitalia look like and cannot discern the difference between a reliable internet reference and a hilariously inaccurate one.
It seems like it’s October? The commenter above is probably right, they’ve probably only taken 1 exam so far. She’s probably referring to her high school records as well…they’re work, don’t get me wrong, but they’re not nearly as much work as college grades can be, as many freshman find out the hard way.
Does this mean Dorothy has to kill Roz? I’ve lived so long in geekery I assume it’s a case of you keep what you kill? Is it Thunderdome, Sith, or Klingon rules?
All of the candidates are put in an arena with a variety of weapons, and the last one standing gets the job. Roz’s best chance is that she gets hold of the Murderbrawl Chainsaw early.
She may have known the party givers from her hometown. Also someone as outgoing as Roz, who also was probably an activist in high school and may have belonged to student political groups that may have got together with people in other towns. She might have got to know the party giver that way.
It might also have been an open party, where anybody can show up. People talk. I’m sure it didn’t take Roz long to find good parties, especially if she checks social media.
Yeah, Roz, the girl who made a porno in her dorm room. Not the best choice. Why does she think anyone in the administration would trust her with a position of authority? Still, crazier things have happened in this strip.
I understand where you’re coming from, but surely you can’t mean that people who have made a sex tape (consensual and everything) lose any right to be in positions of authority? That does not disqualify a person from anything. I understand maybe some people in the administration would get ~morally up in arms about it – but just because she made a sex tape that doesn’t mean she couldn’t be a great RA. Or a great anything she wants to be.
As the Dean put it, the college has a vested interest in not being a porn shoot location. They’d be justified in not giving her in more power when she’s already given them grief.
Ok, I see that. Maybe because the sex tape was such big news, because she’s a politician’s sister. She has a certain profile.
I mean, I had a student tutor at university who’d done porn and used to be a stripper, so it never really seemed so weird to me. But a) maybe my uni didn’t know about it or b) maybe no one cared because it was in Europe lol.
In practice it signals to management, “I’m a liability who will get the school in the papers and not in a good way.”
Like a certain political party that I shan’t be naming, the school will look at the full-blown liberal full of passion, and then look at the so-moderate-she’s-milquetoast liberal that’s got “career politician” written all over her and who lots of people think is a bit disingenuous, and decide that the moderate is the safe bet.
Yeah ok, you have a point. Roz made headlines because she’s high profile because of who her sister is. If she was just a random girl and not a DeSanto, I don’t think we’d be having this dicussion at all because who would really care about a random girl’s sex tape? The administration would certainly not know about it.
And you’re also not wrong about that comparison. I like Dorothy too and there’s NOTHING wrong with ambition. #imwithdorothy
But if I was American and I’d have had a chance to vote for Roz DeSanders, I so would have.
Well lets not forget that even some random girl’s sex tape can make headlines. Anyone remember a Duke university girl that shot porn to pay for classes? All it took was one other student recognizing her for it to blow up.
I don’t think it’d so much be about the porn tape as the having caused bad publicity for the school thing. If it’s bad that Roz inadvertently dragged the school’s name through the mud in her battle with her sister, it would be doubly bad if she was in a position of authority in the school and did it again.
I wanna feel happy for Dorothy about trying to get into Yale but also feel sad at the same time knowing if she does get accepted (which she most likely will) she’lol leave her friends and most importantly Wally 🙁
Yeah. They balance each other out. If anything’s going to help Walky, it’ll be Dorothy. And Walky already has her much less neurotic than at the start of the comic.
I don’t think so. I actually feel they’re both too different, and Dorothy doesn’t seem to want an actual relationship even though she prods Walky to open up to her, I get “fix ‘I’m” vibes from her. Walk is too immature/emotionally stunted to be in a serious relationship, and needs to personally get his shit together.
I don’t right now, with work they could be. Walky would have to stop acting like a man-child – by which I mean he would have to learn to actually talk with Dorothy honestly instead of hiding everything or hiding important details when he does share and would have to learn to listen to others instead of just shouting and talking over them when he starts an argument (this is what he did in his rather recent argument with Carla instead of actually listening).
They balance each other out, but not in a sustainable way right now because they aren’t able to speak to each other in a mature manner about important things because of Walky’s immaturity. In the short-term it is fine, in the long-term it would create issues where Dorothy is essentially babysitting Walky rather than them being equals.
I don’t think Larkle meant that as ‘Dorothy and Danny should be together’ so much as ‘Dorothy and Danny seemed more long-term compatible to me than Dorothy and Walky do’, with the implication that Dorothy and Danny weren’t very compatible.
It’s honestly really unlikely that she’ll be accepted. Yale takes very few transfers, and it’s much harder to get in as a transfer than as a new applicant. I’m in the law school, and my SO went to undergrad there, and the transfers are generally much more impressive than the average students. None of the stuff Dorothy is trying to do right now would stand out.
I knew a person who transferred to Yale for her sophomore year onwards, but I can’t imagine the competitiveness of that process. If Dorothy didn’t get in the first time, I think you’re right in that there might not be much she can do now.
One thing that’s occured to me on second reading of last strip and reading tonight’s is… This is not necessarily at Ruth’s expense. So far (emphasis on SO FAR), Dorothy isn’t campaigning for herself over Ruth. Right now, she’s just putting herself in a good position by ‘stepping up’ into the void. That good position can be useful for taking Ruth’s job or, as she points out here, be useful toward pursuing an RA position next year. Even if it never leads to an official RA position, it’s a great anecdote for both her leadership qualities and general Good Citizenship(tm) that she took charge and kept things going smoothly (or as smoothly as can be expected), to use in an essay, an interview, maybe even make it into her autobiography decades down the line. She does not need Ruth ousted to make this opportunity work for her, and SO FAR she isn’t pushing for Ruth to be ousted. She’s just assuming she will be, or probably will be.
Moreover, this can actually be good for Ruth. Having Dorothy stepping up means fewer problems from the floor get passed to Chloe. The fewer problems get passed to Chloe, the less of a rush she’s in to get Ruth replaced, the more time Ruth has to get to a place where she could reasonably handle the RA position.
Also I can’t wait to see who Roz is about to propose, because it’s certainly not herself.
There’s something so off about her application being her primary motivation here, to me. I’ve always said that Dorothy sometimes rubs me the wrong way, and this is an example of why. If the application is the primary motivation, yes she can also do good so she says – but if everyone knows that, how will they want to talk to her knowing she’ll just use them as fodder for an app?
I realize that there’s nothing wrong with wanting to bump your resume up, but Dorothy isn’t doing herself favors with her possible future freshman by telling them that to their faces. I feel like the truth is, it’s a one year gig to her. She’s probably not intending on getting anything out of it besides what I mentioned above, at all. I want to believe her altruism, but I’m expecting this to become just another of the 1 million things she’s doing to boost her application, which wouldn’t really allow her to do this job well because she’d just see it as another thing on her to do list, rather than actually connecting and looking at nuances.
She could have been straight up volunteering somewhere, but the people at Yale don’t care about that, they care about positions with titles and grades and prestigious shit and Dorothy’s willing to cloak herself in it to get there. I don’t necessarily disdain the players, cause life is complex like that, I disdain the players that pretend they aren’t playing the game while using everyone else. And I hate the game too. Getting into school is hard enough, and kids are killing themselves over it these days.
I have to disagree on the count of Dorothy seeing RAing as just another thing to do. I think she’d honestly and earnestly try to connect, but given that she’s open about wanting the position to pad her application, she’d probably have a hard time getting through to those who saw her reaching out as a sham.
I don’t know, I just can’t really “get” the disdain here for Dorothy’s ambition.
I think a person is allowed to want a position both for the opportunity to help others AND for the benefits the position provide. I chose to be a teacher because I sincerely want to help contribute to the education of our youth, want to help each individual teenager I work with. I also expect to receive a paycheck so that I can pursue other personal goals as well.
I also find it kind of odd that some commenters (not Mav; just replying here) seem to condemn Dorothy for being so open about her intentions (“I want to help people, I want to become RA, I hope it’ll benefit my Yale application”), then in the same comment condemn her as disingenuous because she’s not…open enough? …about her intentions? It was –Joyce- who tried to describe Dorothy’s actions as altruistic.
When I was young, it seemed that if you cared about someone, I guess…you didn’t need to actually write anything down, or ask someone what they were thinking. If you REALLY cared, you’d just know, through some sort of relationship empathy/telepathy. This seemed to inevitably cause a lot of trouble when people failed to divine my thoughts, feelings, and needs. I know I’ve seen plenty of relationships “suffer” from this, enough that it’s become something of a cultural stereotype. But the older I’ve grown, but more I’ve seen and realized that the people who ask what people need, who write things down and schedule them – get things done. And it doesn’t really mean you care any less…I think, in some ways, you might even care more. Because you care enough to prioritize it, to make sure no one is overlooked, everything gets done, isn’t forgotten, because you’ve placed it on your schedule.
A silly example of this, when I was in college, one of our professors was teaching a little time management seminar. While discussing the importance of “scheduling the big rocks,” he showed us his computerized calendar. On that Monday, was “Schedule a date with my wife this week.” And he showed us that he could switch the calendar to ten years in the future, and there, again, was “Schedule a date with my wife this week.”
At the time, I remember thinking this was horribly un-romantic. Who has to remind themselves to schedule a date? Surely people who love each other just naturally spend time with each other no matter what?! But I watched that couple for over six years, and have continued to keep up with them. They are the sweetest, most in-love couple I’ve ever met. And the first thing he does every single week, is make sure to plan time with his wife.
That “ten-years-in-the-future” date took place over two years ago now, and they’ve weathered brain cancer and grand-children and moving cross-country, and still love each other dearly.
In short, I think Dorothy could make an excellent RA. Does she have additional motives? Sure. And she’s honest about them. Does she also care about the well-being of her wing-mates? I think we’ve seen that she absolutely does. And I don’t think the two things are mutually exclusive. Frankly, I don’t see how Dorothy’s “ulterior motive” is somehow any more sinister than the likely motive of most RAs (including Ruth): finances.
She would make sure no one was forgotten, that everyone had the opportunity to bring anything to her attention, and she would seek to resolve things in fair, right ways, and probably have a pretty good sense of when to escalate an issue to a higher authority. We’ve also seen her honor wishes that she disagreed with (Joyce not going to the police after Ryan) because she respects their privacy and autonomy. She is by no means perfect, but I think the greatest potential risk here is to herself (risk of burn-out has been mentioned), not that she’d somehow not be helpful or available to others. There are certainly plenty of worse things than “A little awkward/forced, and writes things down.”
And she’d at very least be a good measure better of an RA than Ruth (which is, admittedly setting a low bar) or no one at all.
I agree with you re: planning ahead and being intentional regarding helping people. It comes off as odd but, as you said, if you never plan, you’ll never get the thing done.
I feel like, tho, the main irritation I feel is that Dorothy’s pragmatism seems to come at the expense of kindness to Ruth. It would perhaps be polite to put in an application for the RA position quietly, if only because Dorothy’s sureness that she’s the best, most capable candidate could further shame Ruth, who already hates herself. While Dorothy isn’t saying these things to Ruth’s face, we, the reader, know how Ruth is feeling and know that Billie is angry on Ruth’s behalf. So perhaps sympathy for Ruth / Billie is making Dorothy seem callous.
That story of the married couple is an amazing one. I hope one day to love someone like that.
I think these are well thought out points. When I mentioned before that she doesn’t connect emotionally, it’s because she actually doesn’t. Between the two of them, Roz is more relatable. And even though it shouldn’t matter on the surface, it does now because that’s a core requirement for success in this position. People have to feel like they can connect to you, often emotionally, if they are going to open up to you, the people that open up to her now do so because they are her close friends. And people, especially freshman, go by first impressions. If she really wants to do well, she has to alter her approach to people. I’m also genuinely sure she wasn’t talking to random people before she heard that Ruth is gone, that’s why it seems insincere, because she just admitted she was only doing it to impress the admins. She said application first, and then justified it by saying that she wants to help people, too. No matter her personal intentions or the fact that she may want to do both, this puts people off. I concede that saying she doesn’t also want to help others at all was harsh of me, just that I think her app stuff is her main priority right now.
It’s definitely true that people should be paid to help others; I do not believe in adults volunteering full time/ part time when they should be getting paid. however what I’m arguing there is that titles are valued more in applications than general volunteership, where you can actually get a lot of work done too. You can’t run a campaign or an organization without regular volunteers/workers, you will not get anything done by yourself. And yet, these common positions are thought of as less than because they don’t carry the air of importance as in a title.
Suffice to say, I don’t think ambition – especially in a woman, is evil. One of the most inspirational characters to me is Christina Yang from Grey’s Anatomy. I don’t feel that Dorothy will be a good RA because I don’t know that she will be – I can see her in the future making a tough decision giving something up because of burnout, or actually burning out and affecting her ability to be a good RA. She barely has a few minutes a day to herself. This isn’t to put her down, just that how on earth will she fit that into her schedule and do it properly?
I think my judgmental comment comes more from her interactions with Walky. He’s her fling, but the way I see it is that Joyce’s situation is much more serious. Walky feels like he’s not good enough for her which is his issue to solve, but Dorothy’s also judged him harshly for personal habits before (the mall episode)- I’m sure that’s part of the reason he won’t tell her about his grades. She gets this position, and she’s gonna get a lot of messy people with messy problems, i.e. Billie that aren’t so black and white and fixable. She won’t like some people (Mary), so I don’t know how she might deal with that.
“core requirement for success in this position”? It’s an RA job.
You’re a success if there are no major disasters and you don’t bother the administration too much. Keep the wild parties down to the level no one has to take notice. Don’t let the place burn down.
I could definitely see where our differing backgrounds could come into play here as we evaluate Dorothy’s suitability for RA. Although my school was probably exceedingly “touchy-feely,” compared to IU, our RAs were almost exclusively masters students, and they preferred the “returning students” (early thirties), rather than the 23-year-olds (something more akin to the RA in Its Walky!). Those they did chose in their early thirties were almost always freshmen or sophomores who had served in the military first.
The RA’s responsibility was to maintain order in the dorm/wing, and be the contact person for any major issues. They were always chosen as people who would be glad to listen to and counsel on more personal issues as well, not as a “relatable friend,” but as an older or more mature person with some experience.
In short, they made sure the school rules were followed, disseminated information as necessary, settled disputes, made sure the dorm didn’t burn out, and were there if we really needed someone to talk to. But much more as a parent/teacher. They weren’t in any way there to be our new bestie. We, every one of us, called them “Miss–” etc. I’m pretty sure most my RAs, I never even knew their first name.
I realize mine is probably a pretty atypical experience, though. So far, no RAs in DoA nor the Walkyverse have really shown me an alternative.
Is it just me, or are RAs a common part of college life that we just don’t see many pop cultural depictions of?
I am beginning to realize that, too. I’ve been very “rah, rah rah!” about this, but not everyone’s experience is the same. That’s very interesting that your RAs were masters students! Ours were sophomores, and it was designed so that they were close enough in age to make freshman think they could talk to them as peers. Our school is also very small, so there were no grad students and stuff like that.
I don’t know either about the portrayal on TV, that’s an interesting question! The only show I can think of is A Different World, and the RA type person there was very much like a counselor – he was a masters student too, like at your school, and people talked to him as the older, more knowing person.
For what it’s worth, we also had someone like that, it just wasn’t the RA. We were typically roomed 4 or 5 to a room, and for my freshman and sophomore years anyway (I moved off campus junior year), a sophomore was selected as the “Room Leader.” They were probably supposed to be there for those purposes? But my freshman year room leader was mostly naive and sometimes just a little petulant. She spent more of her time getting our advice, then being frustrated when the room didn’t “treat her like a leader.”
My sophomore room leader mostly seemed to abuse her “power,” trying to make everyone go to bed early…then she and her friend staying up late by themselves, legislating others (“Stop turning the light on when you get ready for your 7am class. My friend and I don’t have class until 9 am and you’re disturbing our sleep”) etc. Those who weren’t one of her close friends that she tried to bend the rest of the room around, just saw her as unnecessarily meddlesome. I don’t recall her ever taking an “interested and want to help you” approach with anyone else, but maybe that was happening behind the scenes while I was in classes or working.
So I guess my experience with those sort of “RA”-type positions were fairly negative, and that would color my perspectives on Dorothy vs. Roz. I see Roz as much more likely to try to bed people to her personal issues/will, while seeing Dorothy as more likely to ensure people are following the dorm rules as necessary, and mediating any other disputes in a more reasonable, detached manner. I guess maybe I see Dorothy’s detached-ness as a positive trait, instead of a negative one.
I think there are some really interesting questions we could ask about Dorothy’s potential RA reign.
If someone brought up a dispute with Joyce, would Dorothy immediately take her side? Would Joyce kind of expect she would? How startled would Joyce be if she didn’t? (For some reason, I can sort of imagine her expression right now!)
Dorothy didn’t seem to have any problem with under-aged drinking when attending Joyce’s party. Would that change if she became responsible for upholding the school’s rules in the dorm? Would she turn a blind eye while attending a friend’s party (perhaps while deciding not to partake herself), but rat out someone else’s party?
I’m not sure, but does IU have any policies, even on paper, against sleeping with other students in the dorms? (I think there was some discussion in the comments on this awhile back, more focused on Anderson, but a number of colleges seem to have policies on this “on-paper,” that in reality, are rarely if ever enforced). Would this change her behavior with Walky? Will we see Willis draw a hotel soon?
How will she struggle internally with these questions?
And how would any of these differ for Roz, and whoever her close friends are? Do we even know that Roz has any close friends? No one springs to mind, but maybe someone else caught something I’ve missed.
(PS. My apologies. I’m pretty new to actual internet commenting, so my missives seem to be more essays, than comments. But I’ve mastered that paragraph break!)
haha, that’s okay! I don’t mind long posts either. I think those are really good questions. If either Roz or Dorothy get the job, it would be very interesting to see how they handle those rules and regulations, and how their relationships might change. I’m sorry your experience was negative. It also seems like your school had a large population. We roomed at most 3 people to a room, the majority were doubles as freshman.
I agree some people will definitely feel put off: Billie here being perhaps the most extreme example. Most might simply feel awkward until it’s the “new normal.” As someone mentioned below, Dorothy has a very organized “organizational style,” that, like much of the intensity that characterizes her life, can put others off at first. I just think that, like her friends have, most the others in the dorm could probably eventually adapt.
Also, I agree that it’s pretty deplorable that these kinds of universities downgrade volunteer experience in the application process, especially since it’s usually volunteers who are choosing to spend their time, right now, to help make a difference in the world. For most charitable organizations to function, very many people must pitch in, while very few “run things.”
However, someplace like Yale is probably both looking for, and looked at by, people who intend to “run things,” rather than just pitch in. While the result is poor, I can at least understand where they’re coming from.
That couple was truly amazing, and dear to my heart. In their early years of marriage (before my time), he was starting to be overworked in his first career…gone more and more hours while trying to stay on top of a rapidly expanding department. One night, his wife sat down with him and said, essentially, “You’re almost never home. I need you. Our kids need you. This is destroying us. We need to figure out how to make a change.”
He went to his boss, still in his mid-twenties and barely making anything at all yet, and said, “I’m sorry, I truly love all the opportunities I have here, but this is running me and my family into the ground. I need to reduce my responsibilities here, so I can get home at a decent hour most of the time. I understand if you need to reduce my salary and take back the company car you just gave me. I really want to continue working here, I just need to find a way to make it more livable.”
The boss’s response? “Let’s get some of your work delegated, hire an assistant, keep a better record of all the responsibilities on your plate. Keep the car, and you probably need a raise. You’re valuable to this organization, and we want to find a way to make it work with you, too.”
[Disclaimer: Offer of a raise is probably pretty unusual! (was pre-recession, too) Results not typical.]
Balance is important – and you can’t do everything on your own. I’m glad they worked out the situation, and that’s really awesome that he got a raise and an assistant! I have a lot of feelings about “ivy-league” type schools and the admissions process, because I think it causes kids to think in terms of what they can get out of things, and can cause them to feel bad if they don’t live up to impossible standards. It also obscures important things like self care and socialization. I have a lot of feelings about it because it can really fuck with a person’s sense of worth. I’ve had it happen to me, seen it happen to others, read countless terrible stories, etc.
Dorothy does volunteer. I can’t remember at what, but I remember it coming up in a conversation with Joyce. Whatever she does, Dorothy does well and puts forth her best effort, which we’ve seen in her journalism, her schoolwork, and her friendships. There’s no reason to think that she wouldn’t put forth the same amount of effort with RAing. We also already see that she’s taking notes on everyone, which is her organizational approach. Dorothy is the sort to balance doing good things with ambition, and I don’t see that as a bad thing. One of the strong points of Dorothy’s character is that she’s very good at balancing things. The fact that she approaches things methodically doesn’t mean that she doesn’t care, that’s just how she does things, and sometimes how she shows that she cares.
For the soul sake of taking a other step to being president… which isn’t really a nigh bar anymore. I’m not mad about Dorothy trying to replace Ruth I’m just going to be rubbing this in for the next 4 years.
Hopefully not.. meanwhile at the lyrics super assholes aka the White House Trump is trying to see if you can have the entire President office redecorated gold.
I don’t know what kind of RA Roz might be…she and Dorothy have that in common where they have very strong sense of beliefs like I said before, I can see them both having an issue of being too judgmental to actually get anywhere.
Someone yesterday mentioned that admin could pick someone who was next on the list to the person who actually got it. They could also get a sophomore from another dorm to move.
They could, but the implication here seems to be that interested girls in the wing are considered preferable choices. Which makes sense, as all they would have to do is move down the hall.
I like how Agatha looks a little bit confused in that last panel. It’s like she’s thinking “Why are you doing that? Wait, what am I doing out here?” It’s both funny and endearing.
Dorothea gotta say it once again the office of President of the United States means nothing anymore. Last time I said Trump might be our president now to guarantee fact.
Don’t worry about the R.A job though I’m sure when it comes to giving a position of power to someone they’re not going to overlook the obvious better choice and pick the one who’s completely incompetent right ?
Seems like the decision’s been made then actually if Ruth actually does get fired. Whether or not Roz would be the best choice they’ll likely go with someone who’s actually eligible over a freshman no matter how competent Dorothy would be and honestly I think they could do worse than Roz. I don’t know where the vibe comes from that she’d be completely incompetent comes from. Having a slightly off putting personality doesn’t mean she’d be incapable of doing the job more or less competently and as we learned from Ruth’s boss standards of competency aren’t actually that high and she doesn’t appear to have the major debilitating psychological and addiction issues that will likely lead to Ruth’s termination. She’s manipulative and slightly…idk what the word would be overzealous? when trying to prove a passion point but she’s not malicious or abusive.
Roz is a freshman too I think, so she’s no more regularly eligible than Dorothy.
That said, I’d bet dollars to doughnuts Roz is more plugged into student life and the community than Dorothy, which might give her an unforeseen edge. (Also, Roz is rooming with Mary, and if she were RA she’d get the RA room aka Away From Mary.)
Her off-putting personality is what makes people think she would be incompetent because her overzealous behaviour has resulted in bad decisions on her part before where her own inability to see how her actions come across to others has resulted in more harm than good. She has become aggressive in response to her points not being readily accepted before as well.
People can behave differently in different settings, but it is easy to imagine Roz’s behaviour being offputting to others for a variety of reasons.
Roz would make a supremely terrible R.A. Yes, a positive attitude about sex and consent are good qualities for an R.A., but she is EXTREMELY judgemental and is unwilling to accept that she doesn’t know everything, both of which are evident from her treatment of Joyce.
Isn’t the problem that Dorothy is knee-deep in or at the very least aware of all the against-the-rules stuff happening in the wing except for what led to the previous RA being removed?
I love this strip so much! It’s a great Dorothy moment. She stands her ground, she lies out her reasoning, she shows she has made her homework and she makes her case. Dorothy WOULD be a good choice for RA.
And so would Roz!!!! That’s a great final panel. Dorothy has opened the door for freshmen to be RA? Well, she’s not the only candidate any longer then. And they are two good choices!
Who would be the better RA? The polite, ambitious nerd or the social, passionate party animal? Do you want an RA you can go to with your homework or with your STD test?
Vote Dorothy – wouldn’t it be nice if we could all get along?
Vote Roz – free condoms for everyone!
Roz would be a horrible choice. She’s thinks she knows what’s best for everyone regardless of whether or not they agree and to hell with them if they don’t get in line. If she was made RA the dorms would be far more sex positive and a safe place for minorities, but that’s pretty much it, and you’d still get that anyways if the RA went to Dorothy. If someone were to take a conflict to her she’d be incapable of being impartial, and honestly if it wasn’t about sex or prejudice I don’t think she’d even care to begin with.
Roz is only convinced that she’s the best candidate because she’s so full of herself. In her mind she clearly has the moral high ground, and as such it’s her duty to do this.
“Impartial” was the word I was looking for. I agree, it doesn’t feel like Roz would be likely to be impartial, while I feel Dorothy would be much more likely to handle things impartially. Dorothy seems likely to do more listening and less talking.
I see how that could make Roz a very compelling candidate, if you felt she was “partial” to one of your “sides.” Who doesn’t want an authority figure who’s automatically “on your side”?
so uhm has anybody thought about the fact that if Dorothy, or Roz for that matter, becomes RA…What will she do about Becky? Will she ignore it for Becky’s sake or will she report it because “that’s her duty now”. I hope to think she’ll help find a solution for Becky before she comes into a position where she’s not allowed to overlook it.
I’m pretty sure Roz would ignore it while helping Becky make more permanent arrangements regardless of what she’s supposed to do. Dorothy on the other hand I don’t actually trust to break rules especially when doing so threatens her ambitions.
Well, Dorothy’s been breaking the rules with Becky all along, so I’m not sure why you think that.
Granted becoming RA puts her in the position of enforcing the rules rather than just not reporting on them, but still.
As far as I recall Dorothy has yet to screw anyone over in the pursuit of her ambitions. She didn’t for example, break the Amazi-Girl’s secret identity story,
I can see how people might think that. Nobody cares that a nobody freshman might know, but if the RA knew and didn’t do anything then Dorothy might have to risk her position to help Becky. THere’s a real possibility that if the upper admin found out, Becky would get kicked off campus cause she isn’t a student. I was actually hoping Leslie might be able to take her in or something.
This might even push Dorothy to take a more active role in helping Becky get good, secure housing off-campus, and/or encouraging her to speak with Leslie (as much of the commenting base has advocated). Like thejeff, I don’t recall Dorothy ever pushing someone else down to get ahead, but Emily and Mav make good points – Dorothy may be held personally accountable if the administration found out she knew, and didn’t report it/do something about it, which could definitely threaten her chances with Yale.
I’d like to think Dorothy would decide to help resolve the issue before the administration finds out (and thus, is actually becomes a threat to her), rather than simply report it immediately to protect herself.
I’m pretty sure Dorothy has way too many plates in the air to /actually/ be a good choice. And this is where I disagree with the basic synopsis of yesterday, where her personal ambition is (allegedly) aligned with the common interests of the hall. They’re assuming Dotty can actually /do/ this.
She’s treating this as checkmarks to fill out – she /says as much/. I really don’t think it’s a stretch to say she might not be suitable for this. But for her overwork, I’m sure this wouldn’t be /disasteriffic/, but it doesn’t leave me with any confidence she’s /actually/ the best.
…/and then she’s overworked/. And Roz has already shown she’s /also/ willing to put the time in to help people.
Mind you, I’m pretty sure Dotty will get it. See, this way she can start to /drop/ plates and let it all crash down in a way that is disasteriffic for /her/. And Walky. And y’all didn’t think I only thrived on the drama of wlw, did you? What would /truly/ be beautiful is if we are left with Dorothy going “This is Fine” as her personal life crashes around her while Billie and Ruth get to start recovering – not ‘everythign is happy’, but ‘things are clearly improving, and they still love each other’.
Because holy /shit/ do I not get enough lesbian prayers answered (Unsurprisingly, since, yanno.) And I needs me my drama. (“But Rutee, what about whatever Mike has coming?” I don’t know, I can’t see the future. Not all drama is equally satisfying. that’s got a good chance of just being suffering)
Dorothy has homework, extracurriculars, volunteer work, and she’s trying for a social life.
Roz has homework too, but likely not as much because she’s probably not striving for ‘immaculate grades with a heavy course load’ to impress the Ivy leagues and the only other responsibility we know she has is volunteering for Planned Parenthood. She probably also joins in some activism, at least online if nothing else, but we don’t know that for sure. So, school, PP, and partying.
Also political engagements, but I can see her using her job to justify ditching those.
Dorothy *finds a hole and fills it with more stuff*. Roz pointedly relaxes /outside of carefully preplanned and justified events/. Trying to sum it up like /that/ is not actually looking at the personalities involved.
I mean, I can almost guarantee that Dotty spends more time in class, purely because she’s taken on a *HEAVY* courseload. And the general rule is, you spend twice what you do in class, on homework. So spending more time in class /drastically/ increases her work time – especially since she’s very methodical and trying to do everything perfectly.
Dotty went to a party *AND TRIED TO WORK ON A TERM PAPER ON HER PHONE*. It really shouldn’t be controversial that she has far less spare time here.
Do we know what Roz has on her plate though? She has her activism, and I’m not sure what form that takes–meetings, protests, volunteer work? She also has a much more active social life than Dorothy. And while I don’t think she’s trying to get into an Ivy League school like Dorothy is, she does take classes and presumably tries to get good grades.
The Dean took a very dim view and while he’s unlikely to be involved with the hiring I doubt any of the supervisors want to make a second hiring mistake since the situation with Ruth had a lot of lawsuit potential. Dorothy is the safest choice unless a new old character will be brought in to replace Ruth.
Yep, as I suspected: Willis want to keep Ruth in the role. The only way he can do that is by ruling out all the reasonable replacements and imposing one who will be so useless and will ultimately become so despised that readers will beg to have Ruth back.
Nah, he could just keep Chloe in the position if all he wanted was to fill it til Ruth was back. We don’t actually care, after all. Setting this up means he /wants/ a student to have it – from there, you have to look at their narrative potential. And /that/ is absolutely, 100% Dotty. Because Dotty has /been/ spinning too many plates.
…Actually, no, I’m being unfair. He could give ti to Roz when /Chloe/ points out that Dotty is spinning too many plates. That’s a pretty real possibility, but it includes too little suffering for Dorothy to seem likely, to me.
“Sarah hissed at me” XD Yeah well Sarah only likes to take care (and say “I told you so”) to the very limited number of people she calls “I don’t want to baseball bat them” XD
She’s not wrong.
and its not like she sabotaged the current RA at all.
Billy. You’ve got more important things to be concerned about than the new RA. Ruth staying the RA was never on the table. and honestly, was one of the stressors on her.
She needs to accept student loans on her own (she’s old enough and if she wrote why she doesn’t have parential support the FAFSA folks won’t consider her family income when determining her qualification).
that way she doesn’t go home, keeps in college as she seems to want (and helps provide her automatic support structure), and helps her have a way to keep going after college too (getting a job away from the home)
Being a resident means she doesn’t have to pay out-of-state tuition. It doesn’t at all mean she’s eligible for government loans, if she is not actually a citizen.
Are loans really that different for most students? Does it vary by state, or something? I was not considered independent and all my loans are in my name – I didn’t need a co-signer. It was probably different in the past…
Then again, in Ruth’s case you can’t put a monetary value on your sanity. If she has to take out loans to stay in housing, she definitely should.
I don’t know whether Ruth has US citizenship or not.
But assuming US Citizenship, if a student is considered an orphan (both parents died after the child reached a certain age), that student is typically automatically considered independent for financial aid purposes (NOT necessarily for taxes purposes; the two systems are quite distinct), regardless of whether or not someone is helping support the student financially.
FAFSA rules basically say “If you’re under 24, you’re a dependent, UNLESS you’re
a) married,
b) have a dependent of your own (not yourself),
c) an orphan, ward of court, or in foster care after age 13,
d) pursuing a master’s degree or later,
e) an emancipated minor (or in guardianship),
f) an “approved/verified” homeless
g) a veteran or active duty member of US military.”
studentaid.ed. gov/sa/fafsa/filling-out/dependency
That being said, any dependent student can automatically take an annual student loan up to $6,500 their sophomore year…which scales up to $10,500 for an independent student. (Nifty summary chart: http://financialaid.umbc .edu/types-of-aid/federal-loans/stafford-limits/
Considering even /resident/ tuition and fees at IU were over $20,000, that’s not enough to afford annual schooling costs. https://admissions.indiana .edu/cost-financial-aid/tuition-fees.html
That being said, we’re not sure if Ruth even qualifies for US aid in that way, if she doesn’t also have US citizenship. I’m not sure what options there may be as a foreign student. But being a US student, even an independent one, even one taking student loans, doesn’t automatically solve all her problems.
However, IU being a state school, they probably have a good number of needs-based aid that Ruth may qualify for…and again, IF she’s a US citizen, and IF her parents died after she reached age 13, she’d be qualifying for that needs-based aid as an independent student, regardless of any financial support from Sir. This could be a good thing for her junior year (that we will probably never see). 🙂
Whatever options she may have there, it’s unlikely she’d be able to suddenly apply for them to kick in right now (except, perhaps, student loans). Usually these things have annual deadlines, semi-annual (by semester) deadlines at best. She’ll probably still have financial needs to stay in school for this semester.
Sources: Listed, plus high school guidance counselor.
Am I the only person who thinks that Ruth is probably going to get the job back? Like, none of her abuse or drinking actually came out. She got hospitalized due to a health problem – imagine if she’s broken a leg. Yes, she couldn’t do her job for a while because of it, but that’s not enough reason to fire someone.
And this storyline is about the conflict of who MIGHT be the next RA, not about someone actually ending up BEING the next RA. IMHO
Of course she will, but only after she’s better, which should take at least weeks, if not months. We need an acting RA in the meantime. Chloe was too busy to even check up on Ruth, so she’s not going to be good.
Though, again, no RA would be better than the Roz we know doing the job. She could get better, but, so far, she’s a horrible choice.
It’s really weird that people are defending Roz. No, she’s not the liberal counterpart to Mary, as there frankly is no liberal counterpart to that sort of bullshit. But she is just as judgemental and ignorant of the people around her as Joyce’s mother and brother. If she had more influence on Joyce’s life, she would be their counterpart.
I mean, what happened when Joyce learned about homosexuality? Roz got mad at her. How dare she be treated well for coming around, when Roz knew it all along? And how little did Roz care about the possible rape? Just to make fun of it, until she found out that she might actually be talking to someone involved in it. (Dorothy had to be cajoled to even attend such a party.)
And we also know that she’s liberal at least in part to be different from her sister. She said as much with the sex tape. That letting everyone know she’s not just a clone of her sister was a big part of why she did what she did.
Yeah, she’s good at being a jerk to Mary, who deserves it. But so are Billie, Ruth, Carla, and probably Sarah. They’d all make horrible RAs. Being a jerk is the last thing you need in an RA.
As much as I don’t think Dorothy would have the time unless she put some of her current stuff on the back burner, she’d be infinitely better than Roz at this job. Heck, not having an RA would be better. The one major problem–Mary–is already held in check by the rest of the wing.
Plus, well, you don’t vote for the asshole when you’ve got a good person you could vote for instead.
Roz is the kind of kid whose heart is in the right place – she wants to ally so very much, and she wants to ally well, but she’s the kind of person who’d out someone on principle so she can make her great stand.
Or, rather, I was outed by a Roz once and so that particular brand of judgemental allyship immediately gets my suspicion & wariness going. Roz doesn’t have the first-hand experience necessary to understand the splash damage her actions can cause – all she sees is her opportunity to “take a stand” for “what’s right”.
Roz and Dorothy are two sides of the same disingenuous allyship coin, actually – they both don’t have the life experience to know the best way to approach a problem, but they think they do, and hell if they’re going to listen to anyone who disagrees.
(and I say that as a person who loves Dorothy and Roz both to death as characters – they’re great characters, and genuinely good people. But you know what they say about the road to Hell – I’ve generally had more damage done to me by well-meaning ignorant allies bumbling their way through something over their heads than by outright bigots – cuz I expect bigots to be horrible, but I have a hard time anticipating well-meaning fuckups. – e.g. “What part of ‘closeted’ did you not understand? In what universe would you think using me as your anti-bigotry prop and outing me in the process would be okay?!”).
I agree – that’s why I was saying earlier that this job is much more important than people seem to think. What if someone comes to them about things like that? About their queerness, or about mental health, or about other serious issues? These things are not black and white, and they take time to solve – it’s not as simple as “this happened. do A then do B then *fixed!*”. There are nuances and people will not always evolve at the pace a person like Dorothy or Roz might expect them to, since you are right in that they just think they know how to handle it. With all the shit that’s been happening lately, it’s definitely not unrealistic to be worried about the ability to help with these problems.
You can spin a lot of what ifs and it seems to be different at different schools (and probably in different years too – we’ve probably got people here remembering RAs from the 70s & in school today).
Still, it’s a job offered to 19 year olds with a couple weeks of training. The only examples we’ve seen in the strip are Ruth and the Star Trek fan on the guys floor, neither of whom inspire great confidence.
We’re not getting professional counselors or social workers here.
Yeah, I’m definitely biased in that my experience was different. If I had my way, there would be legions of mental health professionals at schools across the country. There is a lot of pressure on RAs in many places to solve people’s problems. I don’t think they are qualified to deal with it but regardless of how prepared they are, people have and do come to them for things like that, and their reaction has the potential to influence the way people think about the school and its ability to help them, for better or worse.
This is because a student is more likely to go to another friend or an RA rather than straight up go to counseling, which is often not as accessible to them as their friends and RAs (who in situations like this are only a year removed from them, so close in age) are. So these people, until the student does (or maybe never) gets professional help, end up being their surrogate therapists. Not in absolutely all cases, but it’s totally fucked up that the system is set up that way. Ruth only got help because another student said something, and I’m sure the same will happen for Billie.
Roz was mad at Joyce because Joyce would not accept responsibility for the past harm she caused LGBT+ people and tried to act like it was ‘the church’ as some far off entity rather than personal shit she did. She went way too far though, and it’s fair to be mad at her for it. The other two things on your list though:
Roz did not make fun of any potential rape. She asked how they liked the party, and then complained it ended early because of ‘some fight or something’. Some fight. As in, she knew nothing about any potential rape. She offered Joyce a card to reach someone to talk to when she found out.
That is not what she said. She said that she made the tape to show that her body is her own and that despite people judging her for it, nobody was harmed and nothing bad happened.
Not liking Roz is fine, but two of the things you are mad about are not things that happened.
It’s not at all weird that people are defending Roz when she’s being accused of things that didn’t happen, that she played no part in, or had no knowledge of.
Roz did not, and still doesn’t really know what happened to Joyce at the party. She clearly suspects, since she gave Joyce that card, but she had no way of knowing what would happen, or what did happen.
Nor does Roz have some kind of supernatural ability to detect when somebody she barely knows gets attacked at a party. She may have been at that same party, but she quite clearly did not see the attack, or the aftermath. Most people at the party probably had no more of an idea what happened. Nobody was likely paying attention until the commotion caused by Sarah going Old Testament on Ryan. I doubt many people realized what led up to that.
Roz wasn’t even the one who brought Joyce to the party. She came along with Dorothy. Shouldn’t we all be grossly acting like it’s Dorothy’s fault then? No, we should not, because that’s no less ridiculous. Ryan is the one to blame for what happened, and no-one else.
It’s rather messed up how people seem to want to spread the blame for his actions to Roz, who could just as easily been the one he targeted
Alright, if we’re going to start arguing about who would be a better RA, let’s come up with team names. Roz supporters, you’re the Roztafarians. Dorothy supporters, you’re the… “Keener to Please”? “Leave it to Keener”? “Dot Coms”? Work it out amongst yourselves and let’s start the debate!
Honestly, I think both Roz and Dorothy would be terrible RAs. Terrible in different ways from Ruth, but still terrible.
Dorothy is not trustworthy enough to most people on the floor – and she’s not good at cultivating the kind of trust needed for an RA. Which is good if she’s planning to be a politician – learning to work the room and negotiate is more important for a politician than learning to engender the kind of deep trust that makes for a good RA. Worse – Dorothy doesn’t have the kind of experience necessary to be worthy of that kind of trust, because if a student dealing with homophobic bullying drops in her lap, she’ll fuck it up just because she doesn’t know what works and what doesn’t for this sort of thing.
Roz, on the other hand, is a bad choice for the same core reason: Marginalized people won’t trust her. Different cause, same reason. Roz treats people as her pet cause, and she doesn’t have the life experience to understand how harmful the splash damage of what she does can be. I’ve said elsewhere – she’s the kind of person who would blurt out, “[Name] is gay, do you think they belong in a camp?!” without stopping to think that, hm, [Name] isn’t well known to be gay and maybe they don’t want it widely known because reasons?
Like, intellectually, she grasps that gay people face discrimination, but she hasn’t shown the capacity to think ahead.
Roz is the social justice paladin: All about smiting the evil, not so concerned about protecting the weak.
And I admit I’m probably biased cuz I was outed by a Roz type once, but yeah I wouldn’t trust Roz in a position of authority any more than Dorothy. Give them both a few years and they’d both have the material to become good RAs – but currently neither of them would be good at the job.
Which probably means Chloe’s gonna split the difference and have each of them on half time and hijinks of power-struggle will ensue. 😛
Hm, maybe I’m missing something as the post of RA does not exist in German student housing.
Why do you have to,”deeply trust” this person? Does the role encompass more that some sort of class leader, i.e. hold meetings to inform students of rules, regulations and on current events, maybe organize a group event once in a while, have the authority to remind people of rules and impose sanctions for minor infringements (like making to much noise), and have “house right” to throw out anyone who does not belong? Some of you seem to describe a counseling job that no one that age can safely handle.
That’s what I’ve been wondering too. Maybe that’s the hypothetical perfect RA, but it wasn’t my experience and it doesn’t seem to be the case here either.
I think both Dorothy or Roz would easily clear the low bar that Ruth set. Neither will be threatening anyone’s femurs or sexually harassing their charges. Roz might actually harass Mary though.
In North America, RA’s are kind of one part mentor, one part crisis intervention specialist, one part superintendent, one part camp counselor, in addition to what you describe – they not only enforce and inform the rules, but also help teach study habits, manage crises and mediate disputes. A good RA (admittedly not many are good at it) is trusted by those on the floor when they’re facing problems they don’t know how to handle.
The RA is pretty much just there for a point of immediate order in conflict resolution and to tell peoplet o stop being complete pillocks to each other. Dotty’s /only/ problem here is that it’s going to impose further on her time. Roz doesn’t seem mistrusted by the floor at all though.
These last two strips have been very interesting, Dorothy is acting in a manner I could imagine a young Hillary Clinton acting like.
She sees an opportunity for herself, she’s found out information to help support her claim and has decided to act on it and she’s getting (some) commentators acting negatively towards her for it.
Dorothy isn’t throwing Ruth under a bus, an RA is needed and shes stating her case why she should be considered.
She’s trying to get ahead in life and has goals is actively working towards those goals, this is a good thing.
Yet more then a few on here (who probably support Clinton and consider themselves left wing) are seeing Dorothy’s actions as cold, calculating, taken advantage of Ruth’s situation, as tactless
Basically it sounds like Dorothy is being accused of not acting like a “good women” should
Which is something I didn’t expect to see a lot of on this site so, again, some very good writing
Do mind a lot of people here agree with the accuser’s line of thought here. I will go ahead and say a readership consisting mostly of LGBT folks, feminists and their supporters have better reasons than “not how a good woman should act like.”
I don’t care what’s in her pants, that IS cold. And while the cold alone doesn’t bother me personally, where she found it appropriate to act cold is… eeeugh. No PERSON should act as she does in this situation, period.
That’s the thing though it isn’t cold, the dorm needs an RA now, not later, not when Ruth might (or might not) get better.
The position may (or may not) come up and Dorothy is making sure she has a good shot at the position.
She knows that to get ahead she has to be proactive, if she thinks it’ll help her later, so shes putting herself in a position to be chosen.
If she did nothing do you think it’ll help her chances later? That whoever chooses the next RA will go “Dorothy you didn’t put yourself forward so heres the position” of course not.
She’d be a better RA then Ruth was and wants the position and has shown, through her volunteering at soup kitchens, that she does care
If, by some chance, it turns out she doesn’t care (unlikely but still possible) all that much but does a good job as RA then it doesn’t matter what her feelings are
It disturbs me a little to see the reactions to Dorothy going ahead and actively seeking out the position as if what shes doing is a bad thing, it isn’t and I agree with her about not being shamed for it.
While I don’t have an issue with Dorothy wanting the position, I can see why people would because technically the job isn’t even open yet. Ruth has not been fired. Had she put herself forward when the job became available, that’d be one thing, but she’s angling on a job that is taken, and a lot of people have an issue with it.
I guess my main point is that Dorothy is doing what she (thinks) she needs to do to get ahead and part of that is when you spot an opportunity you go for it.
Also that what Dorothy is doing is what I’d have expected a young Hillary Clinton to do yet Dorothy is getting (some) flak on here that
As I said I’m finding this storyline very interesting as things aren’t quite so black and white
It’s so much wrong as it is unempathetic, I guess. This is going to make things much harder for Ruth and while that isn’t Dorothy’s responsibility, I can see people being upset for the person getting screwed over (again, through no fault of Dorothy’s own). I’m sure most politicians have made decisions that may not have been wrong but still screwed people over and it’s valid to be upset that that happened.
Yeah that’s a fair point. If Dorothy gets the job then not good for Billie and Ruth but good for everyone else, Ruth gets reinstated then good for her and Billie but may (or may not) be good for the rest of dorm.
“That’s the thing though it isn’t cold, the dorm needs an RA now, not later, not when Ruth might (or might not) get better.”
I recall the dorm going on just fine with an RA who regularly threatened tearing out everyone’s femurs. But let’s assume a position that is mostly ceremonial when done by someone more sensible is needed right now and move on to your next points.
“If she did nothing do you think it’ll help her chances later? ”
On one hand, no, by COLD calculation it is a sensible move, but on the other hand I could not care less because her effectiveness is not why I don’t like what she’s doing.
“She’d be a better RA then Ruth was and wants the position and has shown, through her volunteering at soup kitchens, that she does care”
Emphasis on showing. Again, a calculated move to show off her empathy – which she DOES have in aboundance, mind. While I have no doubts in my mind she genuinely means to help as well, you can safely bet everything you own she kept records of her philantrophism, just so everyone who looks her up by the time she runs for office will know how nice she was in her teens. I wouldn’t be surprised if she tallied up every single bowl of soup she personally gave out. She is colder than our new freezer.
“I recall the dorm going on just fine with an RA who regularly threatened tearing out everyone’s femurs”
Sure, apart from Joyce being freaked out about Ruths implied violence, Ruth baiting Billie into throwing a punch and not looking out for Carla against Mary
So what if Dorothy’s empathy is calculated, you can do good things for other people which also help yourself. She may well have tallied up every bowl of soup she’s served but I’ll bet that’s it more then the person she wants to replace has ever done plus the people she’s served probably aren’t as interested in her motivations then getting a warm meal
I’d suggest that the rest of her peers could do worse then being as “cold” as Dorothy is
“Sure, apart from Joyce being freaked out about Ruths implied violence, Ruth baiting Billie into throwing a punch and not looking out for Carla against Mary”
What, we suddenly AREN’T callously disregarding feelings here anymore? I’m just trying to cope here.
By your own logic that Billie, the depressed alcoholic dependent girl, is not even worth addressing… Joyce? Got over it the next day. Billie? Ruth got a nice show of authority out of it. Instant respect, good for the whole, fuck Billie. Carla? Solved it herself just fine.
That’s not my argument, mind. That is just what I am hearing when you say “who cares”.
And most important of all, the people she would watch over already object to her taking the job for outspoken reasons. They don’t even have to be right(though I will make the bold stance and say they are, because she is cloying for a job already taken by a person taken to the hospital yesterday), until she genuinely addresses these concerns, her authority will erode faster than pig iron left outside during monsoon.
In THEORY she would do a great job, since she is immensely qualified and you would never let you forget it. In PRACTICE she already fucked it up.
“And most important of all, the people she would watch over already object to her taking the job for outspoken reasons.”
The only person I’ve seen objecting, since Dorothy has only just announced it, is Billie and she’s hardly impartial in all this
She might or might not do a good job (I think her organisation skills means she’d do a decent job at the least) but she’d certainly do a better job than Ruth
Please start to understand how terrible a job Ruth did is not the main concern of anyone who makes arguments the likes of mine.
I DO know Dorothy would do a good job. And I don’t CARE.
“The only person I’ve seen objecting, since Dorothy has only just announced it, is Billie and she’s hardly impartial in all this”
Again I don’t believe you understand. You base your arguments purely in moral and practical standards the majority of us share, and you emphatize them repeatedly. That is unecessary. I AGREE with you on every point you bring up in favor of Dorothy.
But until you address the cons instead of repeating the pros over and over again, this conversation won’t go anywhere.
That’s not addressing them, that’s dismissing them. But beside that, everyone has their own priorities. Regardless of how important a problem is to you personally, or even objectively to everyone involved, it needs to be addressed. Dorothy could have done this SO much better. But she, similarly to you, dismisses Billie instead of addressing her issue.
As a figure in a position of authority, even one as inconsequential as an RA, you need to aim and take care of everyone. Not just the people who agree with you, not just everyone sans a few acceptable losses, EVERYONE. She already got Billie pissed and Joyce doubting her motives. She can still succeed, but it was a long shot even before the last two pages happened. Good luck, she will most certainly NEED it.
I mean, Ruth is a bad RA, overall, since she was too self-absorbed to do her job, right? Dorothy is too deep down in the rabbit hole herself to help Billie instead of seeing her disappointment as a personal challenge she has to overcome.
Billie is not an enemy, she is her future charge. She should be helping and assuring her, demonstrating that she does in fact have what it takes, not going on about how great a job she will do on paper.
Yeah she could have but shes also 18 and is learning so shes not the finished product yet
“But she, similarly to you, dismisses Billie instead of addressing her issue. ”
I don’t think Dorothy has dismissed Billie but rather has answered her question and has moved on
“you need to aim and take care of everyone. Not just the people who agree with you, not just everyone sans a few acceptable losses, EVERYONE”
Well you should but that’s not always possible, I mean can you take of everyone in a dorm that has Carla and Mary in it?
“She already got Billie pissed and Joyce doubting her motives”
Oprah Winfrey could have been appointed RA and Billie would be still be pissed and yeah Joyce is doubting but I think she’ll come around
At the moment it seems like Billie and Joyce are both working on emotional arguments whereas Dorothy is working on a logical argument but Joyce has shown that logic can, with suitable motivation, cause her to change her opinions
I think the last post I made while you typed is a partial answer to the above. For the rest:
“Yeah she could have but shes also 18 and is learning so shes not the finished product yet ”
…Nor is literally everyone else, Ruth included. The comic is titled Dumbing of Age. Let’s ice this line of thought._.
“I don’t think Dorothy has dismissed Billie but rather has answered her question and has moved on”
That is a VERY literal interpretation of what happened there. Consider it a bit more deep, meta than that. Again, Billie is her future charge. She is clearly distressed. Just ANSWERING the question is not enough, certainly not in a way that relates to her own motives. “She would do a good job” is what Dorothy said. Does Billie care right now? Not really. What Dorothy should do is ask, to understand in depth why Billie cares and help fill the hole in her heart. It’s difficult – welcome to leadership.
”
Oprah Winfrey could have been appointed RA and Billie would be still be pissed”
On the contrary, I think one of the most successful talk show hosts of her generation would have the rhetoric needed to pacify a confused and hurt dissident.
“That is a VERY literal interpretation of what happened there. Consider it a bit more deep, meta than that. Again, Billie is her future charge. She is clearly distressed. Just ANSWERING the question is not enough, certainly not in a way that relates to her own motives.”
I have considered, sorry but I’m at work so my replies are probably shorter then they should be.
I think Dorothy knows that the state of mind Billie is in then theres no way that Billie is in the mood to listen to anything Dorothy could say so instead of inflaming the situation shes walking away as, to her, that’s the best method of diffusing the situation
Not even the combined power of Oprah and Ellen could help in this situation
I must not let you believe anything of the sort. I have been a long time sufferer of major depression before being debatably cured (Thanks to my therapist and quetiapine). It lasted for the better part of my teenage years.
Under those years, I didn’t automatically disregard every word of reason that passed my earlobes. I did occassionally listen to people. Most of those people I listened to because they were very good at talking. Such as, say, my therapist.
Unless you are saying talking you through your problems to resolve your depression doesn’t work and psychotherapy is a lie perpetrated by the Illuminati?
Unless you are saying talking you through your problems to resolve your depression doesn’t work and psychotherapy is a lie perpetrated by the Illuminati?
It’s been getting very serious and I tried to lighten it up, okay
Point is people can be convinced of your position regardless of their mental state until you reach a lower limit – that being “vegetable”. As long as Billie understands words, one of the right people can say the right words at any given time to calm her down. Being on the deep end of a depressive episode only makes it a lot harder. Billie was judged low-risk enough to be let back into society – If Dorothy is has the leader potential you make it out to be, she should have this in the bag.
Personally I’m thinking ‘actually this is probably a good idea’. Is it a bit quick on the situation and not particularly nice to Ruth? Yes. But the job still needs to be done, Chloe is overbooked to do it, and let’s be clear here Ruth is currently in-patient and even after she’s discharged I guarantee you she’ll be having at least weekly therapy sessions, and probably more than that. As someone who’s trying to manage a single class during a partial hospitalization program, let me tell you there is no way she’ll be capable of managing multiple classes and a job on top of that. Depression saps your energy, and even though therapy helps it can be exhausting as well. Ruth is going to be drained. And given the emotional labor required for an RA, that’s not a good combination for her. If you thought Ruth was having trouble doing her RA duties before this? She’s not going to be all that much better now, not for at least the rest of the year. Ruth’s job and living situation are now jeopardized no matter what, because even if the university overlooks all her issues (let’s just be entirely clear here, knowing an underage student has drinking issues and entering a relationship with her founded on mutual self-destruction and drinking is literally the exact opposite of what an RA should be doing, especially on a dry campus), she can’t perform the needed duties. What Ruth needs now is a financial hero.
Dorothy’s campaigning is a bit tactless, but at the same time it is pretty immediately clear Ruth can’t and won’t be able to. (And RA’s a job that you can reassess every academic year, I’ve had friends who did it one year and dropped or considered dropping it the next because balancing it with academics is difficult even for a hyper-capable, well-adjusted individual like Dorothy.) And it really does need someone doing it. So you know, someone performing those duties and offering to take the job IS needed.
Yeah, on the surface I agree. But that lack of tact kills her attempt to become RA because now the dorm members won’t listen to her. So while it needed to be done, the haste at which she has done so renders it kind of a moot point.
Especially since she aims to become RA next year, not this one. She could have sat out at least until they sanitized the RA room from all the spilled/vomited 90%+ alcohol it no doubt reeks of.
“But that lack of tact kills her attempt to become RA because now the dorm members won’t listen to her.”
May or may not listen to her you mean, its quite possible that after all the drama with Ruth they may well want a quiet, nerdy type as RA plus if it happens next year that’s a lot of time for Dorothy to improve (or get invited to Yale)
That’s a fair point, I’m looking at this from what I would be thinking if I was in that situation and being a 43 year old guy it probably means my thoughts are as wrong as they possibly could be
I assume you refer to yourself as a stereotypical male since you figure your gender is relevant. In that case, yes, your idea is a bit too much on the practical, deliberate side of things.
Most people didn’t even give a potential new RA any thought, I’d expect. They are students in a comic called Dumbing of Age. Their immediate concerns are probably limited to “next exam” and “dinner.”
as a former IU RA you must at least be a sophomore to be Resident Assistnat (unless they changed the rules in the last 16 years) But Dorothy strikes me as the kind of girls with enough AP credits from HS to be a sophomore credit wise.
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“What, YOU could do a better job?”
“Yup! It’s in the Sitcom Rules of Engagement”
“This isn’t a sitcom!!”
“Yeah, okay, it’s more of a dramedy”
It’s more of a Dumbing. A Dumbedy.
Roz just pressed the secret switch that turns on Dorothy into…..Puppy Dorothy!
Nah, it’s the switch that toggles Dorothy between ambitious President-to-be, and total goofball who is inexplicably but adorably head over heels for Walky. 🙂
I think that second one is Puppy Dorothy.
I thought that required an action figure to be bounced off her head?
“Probs not. But the challenge is accepted.”
“What if I told you they may not fire Ruth, making your point moot”
Ruth deserves to get fired. No matter how many demons in her closet, no matter how much WE, as outside observers, may like her, Ruth was a horrible RA. She physically assaulted and later sexually abused a student on her floor on…..a hunch. That’s what it was.
If a guy fought with a girl all the time, and then pinned her against the wall and kissed her forcefully on the assumption that she was straight and down for it, he’d be getting fucking CRUCIFIED in the comments section. But it’s a chick who has a suspicion that another girl might be bi and down for it, and turned out to be right so she gets a pass….somehow.
Weather or not she and Billie ended up together is irrelevant, that was inappropriate behavior that should have gotten her fired a long time ago. Daisy failed at ‘being an adult’ by acting like it was no big thing and laughing it off. Let’s separate gender from the equation for a second, an imagine that an 18-year-old student comes up to a trusted older colleague and tells them that their R.A. physically assaulted and then kissed them in the hallway, and said older colleague laughed it off as ‘just something that happens’, because they could see themselves doing the same. You’d scream abusive, you’d scream sexist, you’d scream monster if the genders were in one configuration but are somehow totally okay with it because the relationship in question happens to be girl-girl.
Seriously. What the fuck is up with this audience and cognitive dissonance. Ruth did something that would make her scum-of-the-earth to you if she was a man, but she’s not so she gets a free pass because….patriarchy, I guess? If everything that happened between Ruth and Billie happened, with Ruth as a man instead of a woman, you’d want him to be in jail right now, not just the psych ward, for being such an exploitative piece of shit.
Yes, because everything is about how badly men are treated by society. You just magically know that we would treat a male version of Ruth differently.
It can’t be that she has a mental disorder, and we know it’s morally wrong to punish someone for one of those. It can’t be that the actual comic flat out said she might not be fired–that it depended on her treatment.
We have to balance what’s right for her with what’s right for everyone else. Yes, keeping an abusive RA would be bad–which is why it’s up in the air. She may come back with the ability to handle things. She may not.
Trying to turn this into another male persecution fantasy does you no favors. Many of us (including me–see my avatar) are men, and we know we are not being persecuted.
And attacking all of us is not a good way to join our little community, or make us think you have any purpose but to hate on people you don’t like.
And, since your comment may wind up deleted for being a jerk:
[This reply is to a comment calling us hypocrites for saying that Ruth may still remain RA, saying that, if she was a man, we’d want her dead.]
How did you take his comment as an attack?
I don’t even think it’s a “WHY DO MEN NOT GET TO DO THIS?!” comment like you’re implying.
I thought he was just expressing a “Really…? REALLY?!” level of disbelief at the lack of reaction to that plot point.
He missed a couple of key points, namely that Billie isn’t really being sexually assaulted by someone who physically outclasses her (sorry ladies, average guy is stronger than average woman), nor is Ruth ACTUALLY assaulting her.
She kissed her, and when Billie resisted, Ruth immediately backs off.
It’s a heated moment, and something happened in it, but when it was clear the other party wasn’t into it, that was it. Shut down.
So yeah, that’s why no-one’s really up in arms, like he expected, and frankly, I doubt anyone would be for a guy in the same situation as Ruth.
As for Daisy laughing at it, Daisy asks Billie what exactly happened, and then when shown, Daisy is immediately into it.
Her “laughing it off” is because she’s furiously embarrassed that she basically responded as if Billie were actually trying to make a move on her.
I don’t think it’s fair to say “male persecution fantasy” when they haven’t said there’s anything wrong with what they believe would happen to a male Ruth.
Huh. My phone capitalized my email address without me noticing(scrolling issues) and it changed my gravatar.
Thanks, because I would be right with the crowd on that. People in positions of power should suspend their libido’s in favor of doing their jobs, irregardless of gender or psychological state, something Ruth failed miserably at. She should have admitted that due to her issues, she was incapable of being Billies R.A, and resigned before making any attempt to persue the relationship.
Instead, we’ve got this. It’s not that I don’t like Ruth, I do, I think she’s one of the most human characters in the comic, and being diagnosed with bipolar disorder myself, I feel for her psychological situation and am glad she’s finally getting help. But I also know that because of my issues, I shouldn’t be put into a position of authority, because my behavior is unreliable and erratic depending on my mental state, and she shouldn’t be held to any lower standard that that.
Having empathy for her and calling her out on having done things that are wrong are not mutually exclusive. I’d see her getting her job as R.A. back as quite the miscarriage of justice. Heck, just the fact that she started a fight with and laid hands on one of the students on the first day of the semester should have made it pointedly clear she was not cut out for a leadership position, which requires one be diplomatic. At the time, I let it slide as just being Willis’ penchant for the dramatic, but with everything that happened since it speaks to some much bigger problems about being in a position of authority.
Use of irregardless negates your entire argument. <- Grammar police.
Actually I generally agree with you. I don't particularly like Ruth in the first place (more a fan of the Walkyverse counterpart) and she has used her position in horrible fashion to abuse (both verbally and physically) the students she is supposed to be helping.
She absolutely does not deserve to get her job back.
It’s not “Morally wrong” to fire somebody with a metal disorder if the byproduct of that mental disorder makes them unable to do their job. Ruth is unfit for her position by dint of her actions, not her diagnosis. “But she has a mental disorder” doesn’t cut it, especially when your job is human services.
Are you saying that Willis can evoke empathy for a woman but not for a man? Because that’s what this is about, empathy, not politics. You stand by people who have done bad things, not because you defend what they have done, but because they are good people in bad situations and who knows what you would have done if you were in their shoes, which you’re not. None of us is perfect, and none of us is having empathy denied because of it.
In here with standard point about societal context. When a man does the sexual harassment shitty thing, it’s not just his shitty thing, it’s invoking a whole social ill. when a woman does a shitty sexual harassment thing, it’s just her.
(There are gender-reversed examples of this representative phenomenon, eg when a woman is bad at driving she represents womankind, when a man parks shittily it reflects only on him0
I disagree with the original commenter but I feel that to say “when a woman sexually harasses someone it’s just her” is a part of the problem. As the OP said we SHOULD be treating sexual harassment, in the real world, the same way REGARDLESS of gender or sex. It might be “societal context” but that’s a PROBLEM.
Im much too lazy to go back and find it but I would be very very surprised if the comments for those original strips weren’t full of people expressing shock and condemnation for Ruth’s actions. I didn’t comment myself (first ever comment here) by I remember being absolutely disgusted by Daisy’s reaction.
And, yes, the fact that she did that from a position of power probably means she shouldn’t have a position of power again. No gendered element to it whatsoever. However, within the context of the comic, only Billie and Daisy know about that incident. Daisy is fairly unlikely to say anything now because of how terrible the fact that she dismissed it initially makes her look and Billie isn’t going to do anything that might get Ruth fired. As far as Ruth’s bosses know (and correct me if I’m wrong here) Ruth’s major transgression, other than having a mental breakdown, was a consensual and mutual relationship with someone from her floor. There are plenty of reasons why that’s inappropriate but not necessarily an auto firing offense.
As for why we, as readers, might want her to keep her job even though we know she wasn’t good at it, well, others have said, empathy. A lot of us like Ruth, some of us see aspects of ourselves in her. Some of us like her relationship with Billie (destructive as it might be). Some of us may just be suckers for a bespectacled redhead with a penchant for violent outbursts. And if we want to get into gender doubled standards, how much of fiction is male protagonists who should absolutely be fired for gross misconduct due to violence, aggression and occasional sexual harassment and who somehow keep both their jobs and the audience’s sympathy?
Ignoring that Ruth has taken and continues to take a lot of crap for that among the commentariat. Justifiably.
She didn’t get fired for it because no one in authority knew about it. And Daisy, who could have reported it, screwed up because of her own issues. Which is a pretty likely result, though usually for different reasons, of reporting any kind of sexual harassment.
We’ve pretty much moved past it because Billie has, though worries about the abusive relationship keep coming up. Not so much at the moment because Ruth’s in the hospital, but there’s still a strong keep these two apart and kick Ruth out of the RA job sentiment around here. That incident is one that comes up again and again.
And this is why students should have access to affordable education. She shouldn’t need to remain in a job she can’t actually do in order to be at school.
Her alternative is to try student loans which will either crush her finances or involve help from her grandfather, an abusive asshole it would be a bad to stick her in further dependence on again.
Sarah is probably taking a class on hissing
She’s going into Law, right? Probably studying Parseltongue, most lawyers have some snake ancestry.
Gahahahahhaaaahahahaaaaaa!
You mean Civil Serpents.
Don’t sound ignorant.
They could sue.
+1 FOR PUN.
With tiny bowties an’ all !
Hisssssssss-sue.
My favorite thing about this strip is the mental image of Sarah literally hissing at a surprised Dorothy.
AYKM? Dina has a masterclass in ‘how to express your feelings through dinosaur noises’, and she and Sarah have been hanging out a lot, recently…
I gotta go with Roz on this one. She’s got moxie! ^_^
New RA says: free condoms for everyone every night! Safety is paramount!
I thought she was talking about Agatha
Moxie, spunk, vim, the ol’ razzmatazz, and other things my grandparents probably used to say!
By jingo! 😉
In addition to all those buzz words, Roz would probably be FAR more effective at making the space trans-safe.
And she’d have a lot of fun doing so.
I’m kinda imagining Dorothy go the “let’s get a mediator in here” or “calmly explain things to Mary in a reasonable and rational manner until she understands” routes.
…. just to be clear, Roz would be fired for whatever she did to Mary. But she’d also get a certificate of appreciation from 90% of the wing.
Yes, but let’s not forget that Roz is incredibly irresponsible.
Stopping Mary is the only thing she’d be good at.
Maybe one or two other things, but yeah, Dorothy would be better at 90% of the job.
I generally don’t use the word ‘irresponsible’ for people who volunteer for grunt volunteer work, especially not without evidence they’re blowing off their other obligations. Am I forgetting the latter?
Well, Dorothy is a cisgender, heterosexual, white moderate with political aspirations she’s effectively useless as an advocate for any marginalized group so long as she prioritizes maintaining a squeaky clean record of not rocking the boat.
She has however (correct me if I’m wrong) shown herself to be an ally who I can genuinely see being an ACTIVE ally, much like Joyce. She’s seen people she knows go through struggles for being LGBTQA and I think Dorothy has the sense to know her privilege and the empathy to know they need a voice in the dorm.
Well yeah, but do we have any reason to think she’d prioritize a “maintaining a squeaky clean record of not rocking the boat”?
As far as Carla & Mary go all she’d have to do is follow school policy.
In Ruth’s place, back when Mary actually attacked Carla, I doubt Dorothy would have gone for a mediator or explaining to Mary, she would have followed the rules and reported Mary to the proper authorities – probably Chloe. Mary wouldn’t have had any blackmail material.
Now whether those authorities would have handled the situation well, I don’t know, but I can’t really see Dorothy doing anything else.
She’s also already cause a scandal for the school. If she’s talking about herself, that application would get denied so hard it should retroactively change this strip.
If Roz is really implying it’s her, she’s somehow even more self-absorbed than I thought.
Seriously. Roz takes civil disobedience way too far, and plays with the idea of a moral stance more than she actually adopts one.
This is the same girl who threw the party Joyce was attacked at, and despite there being a CROWD of people who saw and heard what happened, didn’t seem to know about the assault.
The same girl who published nude images of Joe without his actual consent.
The same girl who tried to exploit her teacher’s romantic feelings for her own political gain.
She is NOT fit to be an RA.
And thus, since this is ‘Murica, she will get the job over the woman who is qualified up the wazoo.
Game show buzzer noise!
I hate everything.
You know, I am now thinking, those sisters have more in common than I realized at first.
Roz didn’t do any of those things.
– she attended the party. (The guy who threw it drove Joyce and pals home and swore he’d call the cops if he saw Ryan again.)
– when she gathered that something major may have happened at said party, she gave Joyce a resource (card to the mental health center) even though they aren’t friends.
– Joe happily consented to being filmed and shared.
– Roz hoped that her sister would listen to Leslie and her teacher gets a girlfriend she likes, and saw it as a win/win to play wingman.
Also, Leslie KNEW that’s what Roz was doing, 100%, and went along with it. And it wasn’t for her own political gain, but rather in hopes of reforming her sister for the betterment of all, including her sister.
Yes. Roz can definitely be a jerk, but she got permission for all of these things and attending the party where someone got assaulted doesn’t necessarily mean that anyone besides the victim/victim’s friends will report it or even know – other people are responsible for their own actions, too.
Really? Permission? Because Joe seemed rather surprised to learn that the tape he thought would stay between them was instead splattered all over the internet.
No he didn’t. He knew the video was going to be posted on the internet.
You need to reread that storyline again, because Dorothy asks him if Roz asked to put it online and he said ‘Heck yeah, when you meet a chick who wants to frigging make a sex tape, you totally jump that no matter what’. “No matter what” being in reference to it going online.
As I stated below, there are degrees of exposure. Joe did NOT know Roz was the sister of a congresswoman. Joe did NOT know that the tape would go viral because of this relation. Joe did NOT know that it would be released to a major publication. Joe did NOT know it was a deliberate attempt to gain some exposure in the name of sexual empowerment.
He did NOT have all of the information, and battling semantics of ‘She told him THIIIIIS much’ doesn’t change the fact that she withheld information and exploited him for her own personal gain.
Shame on you.
No, she didn’t tell him that, as far as we know. That is not what you were arguing. You were arguing that she didn’t tell Joe it would be published period. That is not what happened. Don’t backpedal on that.
Also, the only place we know she released it was online. No major publications we know of.
Shame on you for thinking I’m so stupid I can’t remember two seconds to see what you were arguing five seconds ago.
If Joe had more information he would have tweeted the website himself
Yeah, Joe was super-cool with the publicity.
Also, does Joe really have a RIGHT to know that Roz is celebrity-adjacent? Right to find out that she’s of legal age before doing anything with her, yes, right to know he’s being recorded, yes, right to know and consent to it going on the internet, yes.
But is she morally required to say, “hey, stop, I have to tell you first who my sister is”. I mean I can see an argument for that, but isn’t Robin’s party and politics ALREADY invading enough bedrooms as is?
If you know the media are swarming the celebrity right now, which Roz does? Yes. that *SPECIFIC* thing, int hat *SPECIFIC* context, is abso-fucking-lutely, a thing Joe has a right to know. There’s a reasonable expectation of negative fallout for him.
There /wasn’t/, and except when Danny gave him a scare after the fact, he wasn’t even really worried about it. But because there’s a real cost to him, or at least, good odds of it, he gets to know that.
…I’m now, after rereading it, questioning that assertion. I mean, he’s a dude. Well, I’m provisionally going to assume there’s real odds of it.
Lailah: “media are swarming the celebrity right now”?
She’s a congresswoman. She’s running for reelection, like she does every two years. Like all 400 odd Representatives do. Beyond that was there any reason to think the media were paying attention to her?
Nope. So you know, when election season isn’t a thing, it doesn’t matter so much for Joe’s purposes.
Thank you for these receipts. Roz can go about things in a loud, unsubtle way sometimes, but the things that people in the comments often accuse her of are mostly not things she has actually done.
Firstly – Okay, she attended the party. The strip was old and I was mistaken – HOWEVER
– She only gave Joyce the card after it was made clear that something had occurred. Something which she only made worse with insensitive comments concerning a disturbance that she didn’t bother to learn about.
-Joe did *NOT* consent to the film being shared. He knew it had been filmed, but was not informed that it would be made public. He was completely in the dark of how it would be used. He later, after the fact, agreed to forgive her and move on, but that does not make her actions appropriate.
– Leslie is the VICTIM. Roz knew that she had feelings for her sister, knew her sister’s stances on homosexuality, and strung her teacher along in a half-baked plan to gay the bigotry out of Robin.
– …Well yeah, it’d be weird to just hand Joyce the card before she knew anything happened. At best it’d go like this – “Hey, random girl from my gender studies class, here’s a number for a rape crisis hotline!” “Um….okay? Thanks?” As far as she was told, it ended because of a fight – that sounds plausible enough for a college party, so she had no reason to question it until she saw Joyce and Dorothy get upset.
– Bullshit. Dorothy asked him ‘did she tell you she was going to post it online’ and Joe said yes.
– Leslie knew what the plan was. She’s the one who EXPLAINED the plan to Dorothy. Leslie also knew Robin’s stances on homosexuality, as she made perfectly clear in this discussion. It blew up in her face, but Leslie walked in with eyes open.
– The problem isn’t when she presented the card. The problem was she mocked the “drama” without bothering to learn what had happened or who was involved. There were DOZENS of people who saw the exchange, and if she CARED about the people she ASKED to attend, she would have BOTHERED to learn more about what happened.
– Some of the details of that exact plotline are a bit fuzzy (It was YEARS ago), but there is absolutely no denying that Joe was not given the full story.
Roz intended for the tape to be leaked to the press, knowing that it would go viral (Since she was the sister of a congresswoman who stands for “family values”). She knew, with no degree of doubt, that THOUSANDS of people would see the video. That both she and her partner would be thrust into the public eye…
Which Joe was COMPLETELY unaware of. When he saw the article, he didn’t even know that Roz was a public figure. He most likely thought the tape would have a small following, he would remain anonymous, and just have an ego-trip at the few people who viewed it.
Roz gave him NO warning or context behind her plan.
– Leslie’s feelings were exploited by Roz. She knew the “plan,” but Roz was the orchestrator who put Leslie in a highly compromised position which could have BLOWN UP IN HER FACE.
– She complained for two seconds about the party ending. And again, Roz had no way of knowing they were involved in the circumstances surrounding the party ending, which makes sense because SHE WAS TOLD IT ENDED BECAUSE OF A FIGHT. She has no reason to assume Joyce and Dorothy were involved in said ‘fight’ considering neither of them are the type to throw down.
– Yes, Roz did not give Joe the full story. That is NOT what you were arguing before. You were saying Roz did not ask permission to put it up online at all, when that is incorrect. THAT is what I objected to. Saying she didn’t give him the full story? Yeah. That IS true and it is more than fair to dislike her for that. You don’t need to pretend she didn’t ask things she did ask.
Although, again, you’re saying she leaked it to the press, which we have no reason to believe she did. All we know is she posted it online. The press ended up covering it, yes, but we were never told she leaked it anywhere but online.
– Leslie is the one who knowingly, willingly, 100% agreed to the plan. Had she said ‘No, Roz, don’t try to hook me up with your sister’, you’d be right. Had Roz randomly dropped Robin on her, you would be right. Roz came up to her and basically said ‘Hey, you like my sister, I want my sister to have an adult who disagrees with her bigotry to talk to, can I hook you up?’ And Leslie said yes. If that’s ‘exploitation’ then you have a low standard for it.
All of this. Roz irks me to no end some times, but blaming what happened to Joyce on her, even indirectly like this (and yes, that’s basically what you’re doing, Tilty) is completely ridiculous.
Actually, I agree that since Roz invited Dorothy and Joyce, she should have at least checked on them. There’s a reason Joyce ended up one-on-one with Ryan, and while Dorothy was majorly disoriented herself, Roz kind of should have paid some attention to ‘new freshmen who had never been to a party before’. IMHO. PARTICULARLY when she heard there was a fight.
“She has no reason to assume Joyce and Dorothy were involved in said ‘fight’ considering neither of them are the type to throw down.”
Joyce is absolutely the type to throw down. She’s done it several times. She currently has an injury from fighting.
@ Liliet – Roz is not the reason Joyce ended up alone with anybody, nor was she there with them. By the time she heard about it, the girls were probably long gone. And again, hearing there was a fight =/= that they were in a fight, nor does that really seem likely they were considering it’s Joyce and Dorothy. And when she found out something DID happen, she offered her the card. Roz may not have done everything she could have, but she didn’t do anything wrong at that party either.
@ Pat – I think we have different standards for throwing down. I’m thinking ‘getting into a physical altercation with the intent of causing real harm against a person who intends to cause her real harm back’, which doesn’t happen to Joyce very often. Even if you do consider her the kind to throw down, she certainly wouldn’t have seemed so to Roz in the first week (where she seemed naive, prissy, pretty cheerful, and kinda childlike), and so she still probably wouldn’t have made the link between ‘those girls I invited’ and ‘a party ending fight happened’.
-we you discounting Roz for saying something oblivious about the harm that happened? Have you even READ this comic?
-yes, he did
-her sister’s stance on homosexuality has always been “I need to say homophobic things because that’s what gets me votes”.
Here’s when (and how) Roz found out something happened to Joyce at the party. Tne comic right after is important, too.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/03-the-first-step-towards-recovery/peter/
I agree with most of that, but if you really think Roz “takes civil disobedience way too far”, I’d hate to know what you think of people who actually, like, go out and protest.
I have absolutely no problem with people protesting.
I have a problem with someone exploiting others for their personal political gain with no concern for the repercussions. Honestly, as far as I am concerned, Roz is a sex offender. Yes, she received Joe’s consent to tape their sexual encounter (As the posters above are quick to jump on) but she did NOT have permission to DELIBERATELY and KNOWINGLY distribute that video. She completely violated any degree of trust, and honestly Joe could have sued her ten ways from Sunday, and would have been in the absolute right.
THAT is going too far.
Joe DID agree to it being put on the internet, not just to it being filmed. Roz asked him ‘Is it okay to put this on the internet?’ and he said yes. This has been confirmed fifteen million times and it’s time for people to quit harping that she didn’t ask to publish it.
Source just cuz: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/05-media-rumble/interview-2/
She said put it on the INTERNET, NOT use it as a political piece to further her cause. There’s a difference between uploading an amateur porn piece to some shady website in the middle of nowhere, and releasing a sex tape to a major publication to slander the reputation of a perceived political opponent.
Joe did not have all of the information.
that’s fair
A) No, no he didn’t. I’m not arguing that. I’m arguing you said she never asked to post it online, which she did.
B) Nobody ever said she released it to a major publication. Major publications ended up publishing it, but the only place we know she released it was online (I seem to recall someone saying Youtube/Porntube, but that might be my memory).
You’re just trying to fit the facts – as you’re being informed that you remember events incorrectly – into the opinion you’ve already finalized. Joe could reasonably have been expected to know Roz’s sister was a congressional representative (or he could look it up), and he was clearly fine with it. Let’s save the sex offender label for people who actually commit an offense.
No, Gwen, I am recalling a particular panel that I read years ago, where Joe expressed confusion, anxiety, and fear over realizing he was the doofus who was caught on tape with the Congresswoman’s little sister. Not, admittedly, I had forgotten some of the following context (Again, I don’t reread this comic front-to-back regularly), but that exchange is very vivid in my memory.
Thank you for clarifying that Joe was somewhat aware that the tape would be put online, however it doesn’t change the fact that he did NOT know how it would be used. That context was CRITICAL for consent.
Tilty, do you have a link to the panel in question? I can’t seem to recall or find the comic you are referring to, and I think that’s what makes it harder to form an opinion on what you’re saying about it. Obvs I can keep paging through the archive, but I thought maybe you’d have it at hand.
I believe Tilty is referring to this strip (and please correct me if I am wrong)
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/05-media-rumble/retardo/
If I am right, I can see confusion, but the only anxiety and fear was from Danny. Joe was hiding in his room, but he also explicitly said that was due to Danny freaking out.
That said, he was confused by it, so yes – Roz did not tell him she was related to Robin.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/05-media-rumble/interview-2/
He doesn’t look terribly anxious tbh
Is it http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/05-media-rumble/know/ ?
Joe didn’t know she was the sister of a congresswoman, that much is true. He did however consent to making a sex tape and knew it’d be put online. How it’s used after that really doesn’t matter all that much. And no, he wasn’t upset about it after the fact- The only reason he locked himself in his room was because Danny was the one freaking out and told him to stay put. In the same comic that he establishes that Roz asked permission for both recording and posting the video, he also establishes that he’s going to hit her up again. He doesn’t regret his actions or the outcome, the only person who freaked out was Danny because he was worried they’d be hounded by media.
You really are applying negatives to Roz that just don’t exist. Could she have been more forthright about who she was related to? I guess so, but it’s not really her responsibility to do so. Joe gave his consent for the things that had to do with him, and Roz was under no obligation to reveal every detail about herself that could possibly be relevant later down the line to make that consent legitimate.
Implicit bias. White, black, male, female and everything in between, we all have’em. We see what we’re inclined to see.
He changed his stance on “dumbass” and “his ass is gras” awfully fast once he realized it was him.
This is his self image of cannot do wrong kicking in.
Yeah, to my mind not telling him she wanted that sex tape to influence the election by making her sister look like (the) a hypocrite (she is) makes his consent uninformed and therefore void.
Was Roz gesture really putting her hat in the ring or just pointing out that Dorothy’s words don’t win the show for her?
In order:
1: She didn’t throw the party, not that that’s really relevant to your charges. She seemed to offer Joyce a card for a good therapist without ANY external prompting. That implies she knew. And for the record, most of that crowd did not know what happened. They knew that Sarah and Joyce each struck a dude, Sarah while declaring herself an angel from the old testament god.
2: Joe has been covered. You are /really/ arguing this badly. That one’s probably your best point, because not mentioning she’s semi-famous when that could be a complication against him. That’s bad, I guess, but I balk at the idea that your entire history is permanently up for display to all and sundry because of a hookup. The salient point is that there was a /potential/ cost to him from this one – and one he didn’t agree to beforehand. Given he was fine after, acting like she’s really got anything in common with that one asshole Sarah and Joyce beat, strikes me as a bit fucked up.
3: WHAT. What in the fuck. It’s not really ‘political gain’ to get your sister to stop being a flaming asshole – much less when the groups you’re trying to get her to feel empathy for, POINTEDLY DO NOT INCLUDE YOU. And that is /not/ an aim that Leslie was averse to. She /agreed/ with Roz that it was the idea. It’s just that hearing Robin say that shit was just too awful and she couldn’t keep trying.
Like, what in the actual /fuck/, we are going down some serious memory hole bullshit to pillory the latin@ aren’t we.
1) She didn’t know at first. They met up before class, she joked about the “fight”, Dorothy started to say something horrible had happened, but Joyce shut her down because she didn’t want to talk about it.
After class is when Roz approached her and gave her the therapist card.
Two different scenes, so if you just check one of them, it’s not clear.
Hm, got it. But either way that’s… that’s really not common knowledge at the party. The guy who ran it knows to look for him, but most people pointedly don’t. If everyone, or even most people, at that party knew Ryan was the rapist asshole he is, he’d already be screwed.
I do wonder how Joe will feel about the tape in a few years or so.
Depends on where his arc goes, so I haven’t the foggiest idea!
I though she was pointing out that Dorothy’s statement is technically accurate, but includes a darn big “as long as.”
…but one of the reasons I looked at the comments was to see how people were interpreting that.
This is not a conflict I expected.
It’s a shocking swerve! 😉
So is this!
…. is it too late to call spoiler alert?
… also, can we call spoiler alert if neither of those Autobots actually have spoilers?
EVEN MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY BOUGHT IT
(cut to Robin buying a bunch of Cadbury eggs)
No, no, no, please no Roz.
Seriously, the only other person who could possibly do a worse job would be Mary.
Roz, no.
Dorothy, sweetie, before you get too far there, let me tell you about this election we had…
lol Joe somehow becomes the RA of the girl’s wing.
I’d still prefer him over the D.
Joe is mostly harmless. Mary would be more the equivalent. (or maybe Mary is more the Pence – no one is quite DT levels of incompetently flashy)
Hooper.
Galasso would probably be the closest you’d get…
Galasso is consistent in his stated goals, won’t resort to discrimination since intimidation always works and seems to care about people close to him.
That’s not a fair comparison, Roz is actually a generally decent person with a moral compass that doesn’t point directly at herself. This would only be comparable to the presidential election if it were like Dorothy vs. Mike.
I agree with you about Dotty, but I’m pretty sure I’m doing it secure and confident in the knowledge that Dotty is still a basically good person.
Well, that’s being a bit generous to Clinton, but not /that/ generous.
What? Roz, no. I mean I dig her activism, but no way can she be a neutral third party.
This exactly. In a lot of ways, she’s a left-wing counterpart to Mary. She may not actively be a sadist like Mary is, but she’s got the mindset of “if you disagree with me, you’re not just wrong, you’re a Bad Person(tm)” down. If she thinks someone is Wrong, she cannot even pretend to meet them halfway or consider their point of view, and is willing to be actively cruel to prove a point.
Exhibit A: Hatched a plan to try and out her older sister. No matter how hypocritical she is or terrible her politics are, outing someone against their will is a shitty thing to do, but Roz felt that it would be justified because she is Right and Robin is Wrong.
Exhibit B: When Joyce was JUST starting to understand how badly the LGBT community can be treated by the church, Roz took the opportunity to kick her while she was down. It wasn’t a productive thing to do by any measure, it just made Roz feel good to be able to be Right and tell Joyce that she was Wrong. And when Leslie called her out on it, Roz just got pissy, because clearly if she’s Right, then anything she says to someone Wrong is justified.
She’s a left-wing Mary.
She was not planning to out Robin. Leslie even said their plan was to hook them up and hopefully mane Robin listen.
*make her listen
First, I agree that Roz would make a bad RA.
That said, calling her a left-wing Mary is definitely an unfair equivalence.
My jury’s out on A, mostly because I don’t know if there’s been any sign of Robin’s orientation to be outed in the first place.
B was bad, but that was frustration and exasperation speaking.
What Mary does is calculated sadism, manipulation, and extortion. She’s LEAGUES worse than anything we’ve seen out of Roz. Not her mirror image on the opposite side of a spectrum.
Robin is still queer, as all sexual orientations stay the same, but it’s irrelevant, because Leslie already said the plan wasn’t to out her.
We know Robin’s not entirely straight. We don’t know whether Roz has any cause to believe so.
Roz seems to be going on a flirty/blushing look Robin gave Leslie, which is pretty flimsy, but any port in a storm I guess.
Roz is her sister and has probably seen lots of those flirty/blushy looks directed at women in the past.
It’s never been explicitly stated, but the whole storyline, whatever Roz’s motivation, makes no sense if Roz doesn’t have good reason to think Robin’s queer.
She probably has, but we haven’t seen any of that, only her planning after Robin made goo goo eyes at Leslie, which by itself would be flimsy, and its the only evidence we know of that she has.
Yes, but …
We haven’t seen extensive flashbacks to Roz & Robin’s past. Nor have they talked about it. If Robin really has never shown any signs of interest in women, other than that one look at Leslie we saw, then the whole subplot is just bizarre.
In theory, Roz could be misreading whatever it is she’s seen, though we know she’s not for meta-reasons, but she’s got to have some reason to think the plan has a chance. If that’s her first hint that Robin isn’t straight then she’s far, far more of an idiot than I think she is.
I read much of that plot as an attempt to get Robin to admit to herself that’s she’s attracted to women.
And like I said, I think you’re probably right. It’s not something we can say for sure happened, but it seems likely that she’s seen similar little glances and hints in that direction before.
I have to agree with you here. Roz does seem to tend toward a ‘with us or against us’ attitude, but mostly means well, whereas Mary has turned out to be borderline sociopathic with her deliberate cruelty and utter lack of empathy.
Is “with us or against us” really an inaccurate attitude to have though? Because if recent events are anything to judge by the people who aren’t actively with us seem more than happy to throw us under the bus when push comes to shove.
Yep. People are dying out here, folks. I’m okay with not trusting certain people, especially if they even only like people like me conditionally. These folks do not care. So why should I?
In no way, shape or form is she equivalent to Mary.
Is “neutral third party” really what’s wanted though? How does it even apply to being an RA?
To the extent it’s a qualification, it’s an argument for bringing someone in from a different floor with no personal connections.
I think it speaks more to the ability to not push your opinion on someone else when they try to talk to you about stuff. For example:
Student: My boyfriend is so great, blah blah, and one time I did this and and he yelled at me in while we were out having dinner.
Roz: Don’t you know that’s abuse!!?? We have to do x,y,z ..
Student: *never comes back to speak to Roz again*
In that scenario, freaking out and lecturing the person about right and wrong scares them away. You have to center it on them, talk about their feelings, get them to come around if they want to, and that’s a *slow* process.
Sure, and I could see Roz having trouble with that.
I was thinking more along the lines of “neutral third party” between abused and abuser or between bigot and target.
Did Carla, for example, need a neutral third party when dealing with Mary? No. She needed an authority figure on her side.
Yes, I agree – Carla needed an authority figure, and the approach is different in different situations. To the example I used above, the *right* thing would be for the girl to stop dating her boyfriend who abuses her, but the reality most of the time in DV situations is that the SO will take a very long time to come to that conclusion, and goes back to the person several times.
Obviously the RA can’t do much if the victim doesn’t want to do anything about it, but my point is exactly that – some problems are simple to solve (get Mary disciplined) and some are more complex even though one might think the answer is black and white. In a lot of cases, you’ve gotta meet people where they’re at.
I was thinking ‘neutral third party’ in a sense of mediation, particularly when one side doesn’t have a huge power advantage and isn’t quite so black-and-white wrong as with the above examples of Mary or relationship abuse.
(And I absolutely agree, Mary’s hate towards Carla doesn’t call for neutrality.)
I was thinking more like Grace/Mandy: everyday conflicts between roomies of equal power, where nobody is all that Right or Wrong, where you just have to chat together and listen to each other and find out what works for everyone. In such a situation, I’m not sure Roz could resist picking a side and campaigning for it. 🙂
However, if she or her residents know that about Roz, they could go to the campus mediation center, so maybe it’s not such a dealbreaker.
I think Roz is going to suggest Joyce.
Joyce would…
…. hmmm.
…. actually, Joyce would be a decent RA in most respects, with three problems.
First she’d get on everyone’s nerves trying to get everyone to come to things like once-a-week Christian Board Game nights. She wouldn’t force them, but she’d nag incessantly.
Second, she would not command respect.
And third, she would not be able to deal with a hostile or resistant student or trespasser. If the confrontation got anywhere near bad, she’d freeze like a deer in the headlights.
…She might actually get in trouble for the first one. Trying to pressure people into going to anything religious or religiously themed would be a no-no (and I doubt she’d be able to argue incessant nagging doesn’t count as trying to pressure them).
And on a note related to the third, if someone DID manage to piss Joyce off badly enough, she could seriously hurt them and open herself and maybe the school to lawsuits/excessive force charges.
I’d like to think that Joyce wouldn’t swing unless the other party had already been demonstrated to be violently dangerous, eg Ross firing a rifle, and would instead transfix them with a glare of maternal fury and read them the riot act.
Which probably wouldn’t work on some of the more anti-authority students. I guess with Sal she could appeal to the fact Sal basically seems to see her as a little sister-ish figure. Carla and Roz? Good luck, kid. You’ll need it.
Like when she gave Wally the riot act for breaking up with Dorothy which was effective. Honestly, she can stand her own in argument and verbal combat. Since she feels comfortable in the dorm, I don’t know that her anxiety issues would have much effect.
Re: third: Old Joyce would. Jury’s out on New Joyce Who Says Damn.
New Joyce would cut them.
With her knuckles.
Sharp knuckles of righteous justice.
I like how Agatha is just randomly standing there again.
I think that is actually what her job is.
I think she’s trying to catch up with the plot.
Oh my god.
I am officially dead from laughing. DYW.
And yeah, Sarah hissing and Carla laughing for 10 minutes straight sounds about right.
Rachel would probably do a good job if she was interested, though.
Rachel would be an AWESOME RA.
Which is why she isn’t interested.
Roz, you’re supposed to actually make the game show buzzer noise, not just say “Game show buzzer noise”. Fuck’s sake, this is like people who say “Sigh” out loud.
Sigh.
LOL
I hope you people get what you deserve for this. >=|
ROFL
….
SMOKE BOMB.
LOL.
I like that Joyce asked the exact question that like half the comments were discussing yesterday.
Yuo. The characters aren’t dumb- er… okay, the characters are about as clever as anyone else, including the commenting demographic, so it’s a logical conversation.
The fact that it’s basically yesterday’s comments leaves me hungry for the next strip now, though, which really just adds beautifully to the DYW.
I think it’s a testament to Willis’ writing chops how often he can respond to stuff like that basically months in advance.
Unless he’s secretly rewriting the strips on the fly and it’s all a big conspiracy…
Or consider this:
Time traveling.
Annnnnnnd *facepalm*
Roz, yes.
Dorothy, is the semester even halfway over? Everyone (sans Walkerton twins) has good grades! There hasn’t even been a midterm yet!
It’s October 4th in comic, roughly, so no. Granted, I’m sure some classes have had grades by now (quizzes, early midterms, essays, reviews, short papers, etc.)
Yeah, most freshman classes tend to be pretty heavy on feedback in the first term or too, so the Walkys get a chance to get their butts in gear
And the Sal’s know how boned they’ll be without help.
…Or WITH help in Sal’s case I guess.
She’s got her grades from High school on her transcript.
And Junior High.
Most likely all the way back to preschool.
Head-cannon: it’s in a perfectly organized portfolio, along with various awards and certificates of achievement and a reply letter from Ruth Bader Ginsburg answering her elementary-school political question and wishing her luck.
That sounds more like Faz…
Faz would rely more heavily on charts tracking the various statistics that conclusively prove why Faz is the best choice.
Also Dorothy’s file has zero crudely-drawn pictures of genitalia.
Neither does Roz’s. Her drawings are accurate and artful. Not crude in the slightest.
Faz, though, has many crudely-drawn pictures of genitalia, but they’re not recognizable as such, because Faz does not know what genitalia look like and cannot discern the difference between a reliable internet reference and a hilariously inaccurate one.
What grades? She’s been in school for a week and a half.
It seems like it’s October? The commenter above is probably right, they’ve probably only taken 1 exam so far. She’s probably referring to her high school records as well…they’re work, don’t get me wrong, but they’re not nearly as much work as college grades can be, as many freshman find out the hard way.
No exams yet. This will be fun to see work out though.
Wait, October?
Are they going to have fun on Halloween?
….
… is MIKE going to have fun on Halloween?
In 2-3 years.
Well, this is the first time I can remember that I’ve been impatient to see the next strip. Well played, Willis.
*plays Weird Al’s “I Lost On Jeopardy” on the hacked Muzak*
Does this mean Dorothy has to kill Roz? I’ve lived so long in geekery I assume it’s a case of you keep what you kill? Is it Thunderdome, Sith, or Klingon rules?
No Roz. No. I don’t think she can remain impartial.
I love Roz. I’d probably vote for Roz tbh. (idk, is this a voting situation lol, who decides this?)
Sounds like it’s Chloe’s call, but I’m picturing Malcolm Reynolds bellowing that his ship is not a democracy.
Chloe bellowing that Clark Wing is not a democracy?
All of the candidates are put in an arena with a variety of weapons, and the last one standing gets the job. Roz’s best chance is that she gets hold of the Murderbrawl Chainsaw early.
Roz is a sophomore?!
I believe so, but she’s certainly not a freshman. It’s one reason she was already connected to the party crowd evem early in the semester.
Roz has never been stated to be anything but a freshman. She’s also only 18.
She may have known the party givers from her hometown. Also someone as outgoing as Roz, who also was probably an activist in high school and may have belonged to student political groups that may have got together with people in other towns. She might have got to know the party giver that way.
It might also have been an open party, where anybody can show up. People talk. I’m sure it didn’t take Roz long to find good parties, especially if she checks social media.
I got the impression that she’s the most freshmany freshman that I have ever met. (Except maybe Danny and first-week-of-school Joyce.)
I have lost sleep trying to figure out what that sound would be written out
BZRRRRRRRRRT!
Yeah, Roz, the girl who made a porno in her dorm room. Not the best choice. Why does she think anyone in the administration would trust her with a position of authority? Still, crazier things have happened in this strip.
I understand where you’re coming from, but surely you can’t mean that people who have made a sex tape (consensual and everything) lose any right to be in positions of authority? That does not disqualify a person from anything. I understand maybe some people in the administration would get ~morally up in arms about it – but just because she made a sex tape that doesn’t mean she couldn’t be a great RA. Or a great anything she wants to be.
As the Dean put it, the college has a vested interest in not being a porn shoot location. They’d be justified in not giving her in more power when she’s already given them grief.
Ok, I see that. Maybe because the sex tape was such big news, because she’s a politician’s sister. She has a certain profile.
I mean, I had a student tutor at university who’d done porn and used to be a stripper, so it never really seemed so weird to me. But a) maybe my uni didn’t know about it or b) maybe no one cared because it was in Europe lol.
In theory you’re completely right.
In practice it signals to management, “I’m a liability who will get the school in the papers and not in a good way.”
Like a certain political party that I shan’t be naming, the school will look at the full-blown liberal full of passion, and then look at the so-moderate-she’s-milquetoast liberal that’s got “career politician” written all over her and who lots of people think is a bit disingenuous, and decide that the moderate is the safe bet.
Yeah ok, you have a point. Roz made headlines because she’s high profile because of who her sister is. If she was just a random girl and not a DeSanto, I don’t think we’d be having this dicussion at all because who would really care about a random girl’s sex tape? The administration would certainly not know about it.
And you’re also not wrong about that comparison. I like Dorothy too and there’s NOTHING wrong with ambition. #imwithdorothy
But if I was American and I’d have had a chance to vote for Roz DeSanders, I so would have.
Well lets not forget that even some random girl’s sex tape can make headlines. Anyone remember a Duke university girl that shot porn to pay for classes? All it took was one other student recognizing her for it to blow up.
No, but we know the Dean is personally pissed off at Roz, which is a downside, you know?
I don’t think it’d so much be about the porn tape as the having caused bad publicity for the school thing. If it’s bad that Roz inadvertently dragged the school’s name through the mud in her battle with her sister, it would be doubly bad if she was in a position of authority in the school and did it again.
I wanna feel happy for Dorothy about trying to get into Yale but also feel sad at the same time knowing if she does get accepted (which she most likely will) she’lol leave her friends and most importantly Wally 🙁
She’ll*
I feel badly mostly for Walky, but does anybody really think that Walky and Dorothy are compatible long-term?
Yeah. They balance each other out. If anything’s going to help Walky, it’ll be Dorothy. And Walky already has her much less neurotic than at the start of the comic.
I don’t think so. I actually feel they’re both too different, and Dorothy doesn’t seem to want an actual relationship even though she prods Walky to open up to her, I get “fix ‘I’m” vibes from her. Walk is too immature/emotionally stunted to be in a serious relationship, and needs to personally get his shit together.
I don’t right now, with work they could be. Walky would have to stop acting like a man-child – by which I mean he would have to learn to actually talk with Dorothy honestly instead of hiding everything or hiding important details when he does share and would have to learn to listen to others instead of just shouting and talking over them when he starts an argument (this is what he did in his rather recent argument with Carla instead of actually listening).
They balance each other out, but not in a sustainable way right now because they aren’t able to speak to each other in a mature manner about important things because of Walky’s immaturity. In the short-term it is fine, in the long-term it would create issues where Dorothy is essentially babysitting Walky rather than them being equals.
Honestly, Dorothy and Danny seemed more compatible.
Except she wasn’t into him and he didn’t respect her ambitions.
Walky is supportive of the things that are important to her, even though that means they’ll end up breaking up when she goes to Yale.
Both Dorothy and Danny are better off with other people.
I don’t think Larkle meant that as ‘Dorothy and Danny should be together’ so much as ‘Dorothy and Danny seemed more long-term compatible to me than Dorothy and Walky do’, with the implication that Dorothy and Danny weren’t very compatible.
It’s honestly really unlikely that she’ll be accepted. Yale takes very few transfers, and it’s much harder to get in as a transfer than as a new applicant. I’m in the law school, and my SO went to undergrad there, and the transfers are generally much more impressive than the average students. None of the stuff Dorothy is trying to do right now would stand out.
I knew a person who transferred to Yale for her sophomore year onwards, but I can’t imagine the competitiveness of that process. If Dorothy didn’t get in the first time, I think you’re right in that there might not be much she can do now.
One thing that’s occured to me on second reading of last strip and reading tonight’s is… This is not necessarily at Ruth’s expense. So far (emphasis on SO FAR), Dorothy isn’t campaigning for herself over Ruth. Right now, she’s just putting herself in a good position by ‘stepping up’ into the void. That good position can be useful for taking Ruth’s job or, as she points out here, be useful toward pursuing an RA position next year. Even if it never leads to an official RA position, it’s a great anecdote for both her leadership qualities and general Good Citizenship(tm) that she took charge and kept things going smoothly (or as smoothly as can be expected), to use in an essay, an interview, maybe even make it into her autobiography decades down the line. She does not need Ruth ousted to make this opportunity work for her, and SO FAR she isn’t pushing for Ruth to be ousted. She’s just assuming she will be, or probably will be.
Moreover, this can actually be good for Ruth. Having Dorothy stepping up means fewer problems from the floor get passed to Chloe. The fewer problems get passed to Chloe, the less of a rush she’s in to get Ruth replaced, the more time Ruth has to get to a place where she could reasonably handle the RA position.
Also I can’t wait to see who Roz is about to propose, because it’s certainly not herself.
There’s something so off about her application being her primary motivation here, to me. I’ve always said that Dorothy sometimes rubs me the wrong way, and this is an example of why. If the application is the primary motivation, yes she can also do good so she says – but if everyone knows that, how will they want to talk to her knowing she’ll just use them as fodder for an app?
I realize that there’s nothing wrong with wanting to bump your resume up, but Dorothy isn’t doing herself favors with her possible future freshman by telling them that to their faces. I feel like the truth is, it’s a one year gig to her. She’s probably not intending on getting anything out of it besides what I mentioned above, at all. I want to believe her altruism, but I’m expecting this to become just another of the 1 million things she’s doing to boost her application, which wouldn’t really allow her to do this job well because she’d just see it as another thing on her to do list, rather than actually connecting and looking at nuances.
She could have been straight up volunteering somewhere, but the people at Yale don’t care about that, they care about positions with titles and grades and prestigious shit and Dorothy’s willing to cloak herself in it to get there. I don’t necessarily disdain the players, cause life is complex like that, I disdain the players that pretend they aren’t playing the game while using everyone else. And I hate the game too. Getting into school is hard enough, and kids are killing themselves over it these days.
I have to disagree on the count of Dorothy seeing RAing as just another thing to do. I think she’d honestly and earnestly try to connect, but given that she’s open about wanting the position to pad her application, she’d probably have a hard time getting through to those who saw her reaching out as a sham.
I don’t know, I just can’t really “get” the disdain here for Dorothy’s ambition.
I think a person is allowed to want a position both for the opportunity to help others AND for the benefits the position provide. I chose to be a teacher because I sincerely want to help contribute to the education of our youth, want to help each individual teenager I work with. I also expect to receive a paycheck so that I can pursue other personal goals as well.
I also find it kind of odd that some commenters (not Mav; just replying here) seem to condemn Dorothy for being so open about her intentions (“I want to help people, I want to become RA, I hope it’ll benefit my Yale application”), then in the same comment condemn her as disingenuous because she’s not…open enough? …about her intentions? It was –Joyce- who tried to describe Dorothy’s actions as altruistic.
When I was young, it seemed that if you cared about someone, I guess…you didn’t need to actually write anything down, or ask someone what they were thinking. If you REALLY cared, you’d just know, through some sort of relationship empathy/telepathy. This seemed to inevitably cause a lot of trouble when people failed to divine my thoughts, feelings, and needs. I know I’ve seen plenty of relationships “suffer” from this, enough that it’s become something of a cultural stereotype. But the older I’ve grown, but more I’ve seen and realized that the people who ask what people need, who write things down and schedule them – get things done. And it doesn’t really mean you care any less…I think, in some ways, you might even care more. Because you care enough to prioritize it, to make sure no one is overlooked, everything gets done, isn’t forgotten, because you’ve placed it on your schedule.
A silly example of this, when I was in college, one of our professors was teaching a little time management seminar. While discussing the importance of “scheduling the big rocks,” he showed us his computerized calendar. On that Monday, was “Schedule a date with my wife this week.” And he showed us that he could switch the calendar to ten years in the future, and there, again, was “Schedule a date with my wife this week.”
At the time, I remember thinking this was horribly un-romantic. Who has to remind themselves to schedule a date? Surely people who love each other just naturally spend time with each other no matter what?! But I watched that couple for over six years, and have continued to keep up with them. They are the sweetest, most in-love couple I’ve ever met. And the first thing he does every single week, is make sure to plan time with his wife.
That “ten-years-in-the-future” date took place over two years ago now, and they’ve weathered brain cancer and grand-children and moving cross-country, and still love each other dearly.
In short, I think Dorothy could make an excellent RA. Does she have additional motives? Sure. And she’s honest about them. Does she also care about the well-being of her wing-mates? I think we’ve seen that she absolutely does. And I don’t think the two things are mutually exclusive. Frankly, I don’t see how Dorothy’s “ulterior motive” is somehow any more sinister than the likely motive of most RAs (including Ruth): finances.
She would make sure no one was forgotten, that everyone had the opportunity to bring anything to her attention, and she would seek to resolve things in fair, right ways, and probably have a pretty good sense of when to escalate an issue to a higher authority. We’ve also seen her honor wishes that she disagreed with (Joyce not going to the police after Ryan) because she respects their privacy and autonomy. She is by no means perfect, but I think the greatest potential risk here is to herself (risk of burn-out has been mentioned), not that she’d somehow not be helpful or available to others. There are certainly plenty of worse things than “A little awkward/forced, and writes things down.”
And she’d at very least be a good measure better of an RA than Ruth (which is, admittedly setting a low bar) or no one at all.
Arrgh…I -thought- I had appropriate paragraph breaks there, but apparently not. I apologize to all in advance.
I agree with you re: planning ahead and being intentional regarding helping people. It comes off as odd but, as you said, if you never plan, you’ll never get the thing done.
I feel like, tho, the main irritation I feel is that Dorothy’s pragmatism seems to come at the expense of kindness to Ruth. It would perhaps be polite to put in an application for the RA position quietly, if only because Dorothy’s sureness that she’s the best, most capable candidate could further shame Ruth, who already hates herself. While Dorothy isn’t saying these things to Ruth’s face, we, the reader, know how Ruth is feeling and know that Billie is angry on Ruth’s behalf. So perhaps sympathy for Ruth / Billie is making Dorothy seem callous.
That story of the married couple is an amazing one. I hope one day to love someone like that.
I think these are well thought out points. When I mentioned before that she doesn’t connect emotionally, it’s because she actually doesn’t. Between the two of them, Roz is more relatable. And even though it shouldn’t matter on the surface, it does now because that’s a core requirement for success in this position. People have to feel like they can connect to you, often emotionally, if they are going to open up to you, the people that open up to her now do so because they are her close friends. And people, especially freshman, go by first impressions. If she really wants to do well, she has to alter her approach to people. I’m also genuinely sure she wasn’t talking to random people before she heard that Ruth is gone, that’s why it seems insincere, because she just admitted she was only doing it to impress the admins. She said application first, and then justified it by saying that she wants to help people, too. No matter her personal intentions or the fact that she may want to do both, this puts people off. I concede that saying she doesn’t also want to help others at all was harsh of me, just that I think her app stuff is her main priority right now.
It’s definitely true that people should be paid to help others; I do not believe in adults volunteering full time/ part time when they should be getting paid. however what I’m arguing there is that titles are valued more in applications than general volunteership, where you can actually get a lot of work done too. You can’t run a campaign or an organization without regular volunteers/workers, you will not get anything done by yourself. And yet, these common positions are thought of as less than because they don’t carry the air of importance as in a title.
Suffice to say, I don’t think ambition – especially in a woman, is evil. One of the most inspirational characters to me is Christina Yang from Grey’s Anatomy. I don’t feel that Dorothy will be a good RA because I don’t know that she will be – I can see her in the future making a tough decision giving something up because of burnout, or actually burning out and affecting her ability to be a good RA. She barely has a few minutes a day to herself. This isn’t to put her down, just that how on earth will she fit that into her schedule and do it properly?
I think my judgmental comment comes more from her interactions with Walky. He’s her fling, but the way I see it is that Joyce’s situation is much more serious. Walky feels like he’s not good enough for her which is his issue to solve, but Dorothy’s also judged him harshly for personal habits before (the mall episode)- I’m sure that’s part of the reason he won’t tell her about his grades. She gets this position, and she’s gonna get a lot of messy people with messy problems, i.e. Billie that aren’t so black and white and fixable. She won’t like some people (Mary), so I don’t know how she might deal with that.
“core requirement for success in this position”? It’s an RA job.
You’re a success if there are no major disasters and you don’t bother the administration too much. Keep the wild parties down to the level no one has to take notice. Don’t let the place burn down.
I’m probably biased because my school had much higher standards than that, so RAs had more responsibilities and obligations.
Like, if you wanted a campus job where you did jack shit 90% of the time, RA was not one of them.
I could definitely see where our differing backgrounds could come into play here as we evaluate Dorothy’s suitability for RA. Although my school was probably exceedingly “touchy-feely,” compared to IU, our RAs were almost exclusively masters students, and they preferred the “returning students” (early thirties), rather than the 23-year-olds (something more akin to the RA in Its Walky!). Those they did chose in their early thirties were almost always freshmen or sophomores who had served in the military first.
The RA’s responsibility was to maintain order in the dorm/wing, and be the contact person for any major issues. They were always chosen as people who would be glad to listen to and counsel on more personal issues as well, not as a “relatable friend,” but as an older or more mature person with some experience.
In short, they made sure the school rules were followed, disseminated information as necessary, settled disputes, made sure the dorm didn’t burn out, and were there if we really needed someone to talk to. But much more as a parent/teacher. They weren’t in any way there to be our new bestie. We, every one of us, called them “Miss–” etc. I’m pretty sure most my RAs, I never even knew their first name.
I realize mine is probably a pretty atypical experience, though. So far, no RAs in DoA nor the Walkyverse have really shown me an alternative.
Is it just me, or are RAs a common part of college life that we just don’t see many pop cultural depictions of?
*those they did choose in their early TWENTIES were […] military…
I am beginning to realize that, too. I’ve been very “rah, rah rah!” about this, but not everyone’s experience is the same. That’s very interesting that your RAs were masters students! Ours were sophomores, and it was designed so that they were close enough in age to make freshman think they could talk to them as peers. Our school is also very small, so there were no grad students and stuff like that.
I don’t know either about the portrayal on TV, that’s an interesting question! The only show I can think of is A Different World, and the RA type person there was very much like a counselor – he was a masters student too, like at your school, and people talked to him as the older, more knowing person.
Sounds like a pretty nice school. 🙂
For what it’s worth, we also had someone like that, it just wasn’t the RA. We were typically roomed 4 or 5 to a room, and for my freshman and sophomore years anyway (I moved off campus junior year), a sophomore was selected as the “Room Leader.” They were probably supposed to be there for those purposes? But my freshman year room leader was mostly naive and sometimes just a little petulant. She spent more of her time getting our advice, then being frustrated when the room didn’t “treat her like a leader.”
My sophomore room leader mostly seemed to abuse her “power,” trying to make everyone go to bed early…then she and her friend staying up late by themselves, legislating others (“Stop turning the light on when you get ready for your 7am class. My friend and I don’t have class until 9 am and you’re disturbing our sleep”) etc. Those who weren’t one of her close friends that she tried to bend the rest of the room around, just saw her as unnecessarily meddlesome. I don’t recall her ever taking an “interested and want to help you” approach with anyone else, but maybe that was happening behind the scenes while I was in classes or working.
So I guess my experience with those sort of “RA”-type positions were fairly negative, and that would color my perspectives on Dorothy vs. Roz. I see Roz as much more likely to try to bed people to her personal issues/will, while seeing Dorothy as more likely to ensure people are following the dorm rules as necessary, and mediating any other disputes in a more reasonable, detached manner. I guess maybe I see Dorothy’s detached-ness as a positive trait, instead of a negative one.
I think there are some really interesting questions we could ask about Dorothy’s potential RA reign.
If someone brought up a dispute with Joyce, would Dorothy immediately take her side? Would Joyce kind of expect she would? How startled would Joyce be if she didn’t? (For some reason, I can sort of imagine her expression right now!)
Dorothy didn’t seem to have any problem with under-aged drinking when attending Joyce’s party. Would that change if she became responsible for upholding the school’s rules in the dorm? Would she turn a blind eye while attending a friend’s party (perhaps while deciding not to partake herself), but rat out someone else’s party?
I’m not sure, but does IU have any policies, even on paper, against sleeping with other students in the dorms? (I think there was some discussion in the comments on this awhile back, more focused on Anderson, but a number of colleges seem to have policies on this “on-paper,” that in reality, are rarely if ever enforced). Would this change her behavior with Walky? Will we see Willis draw a hotel soon?
How will she struggle internally with these questions?
And how would any of these differ for Roz, and whoever her close friends are? Do we even know that Roz has any close friends? No one springs to mind, but maybe someone else caught something I’ve missed.
(PS. My apologies. I’m pretty new to actual internet commenting, so my missives seem to be more essays, than comments. But I’ve mastered that paragraph break!)
BEND. BEND people to her personal issues/will.
I just…don’t even.
😛
haha, that’s okay! I don’t mind long posts either. I think those are really good questions. If either Roz or Dorothy get the job, it would be very interesting to see how they handle those rules and regulations, and how their relationships might change. I’m sorry your experience was negative. It also seems like your school had a large population. We roomed at most 3 people to a room, the majority were doubles as freshman.
I agree some people will definitely feel put off: Billie here being perhaps the most extreme example. Most might simply feel awkward until it’s the “new normal.” As someone mentioned below, Dorothy has a very organized “organizational style,” that, like much of the intensity that characterizes her life, can put others off at first. I just think that, like her friends have, most the others in the dorm could probably eventually adapt.
Also, I agree that it’s pretty deplorable that these kinds of universities downgrade volunteer experience in the application process, especially since it’s usually volunteers who are choosing to spend their time, right now, to help make a difference in the world. For most charitable organizations to function, very many people must pitch in, while very few “run things.”
However, someplace like Yale is probably both looking for, and looked at by, people who intend to “run things,” rather than just pitch in. While the result is poor, I can at least understand where they’re coming from.
That couple was truly amazing, and dear to my heart. In their early years of marriage (before my time), he was starting to be overworked in his first career…gone more and more hours while trying to stay on top of a rapidly expanding department. One night, his wife sat down with him and said, essentially, “You’re almost never home. I need you. Our kids need you. This is destroying us. We need to figure out how to make a change.”
He went to his boss, still in his mid-twenties and barely making anything at all yet, and said, “I’m sorry, I truly love all the opportunities I have here, but this is running me and my family into the ground. I need to reduce my responsibilities here, so I can get home at a decent hour most of the time. I understand if you need to reduce my salary and take back the company car you just gave me. I really want to continue working here, I just need to find a way to make it more livable.”
The boss’s response? “Let’s get some of your work delegated, hire an assistant, keep a better record of all the responsibilities on your plate. Keep the car, and you probably need a raise. You’re valuable to this organization, and we want to find a way to make it work with you, too.”
[Disclaimer: Offer of a raise is probably pretty unusual! (was pre-recession, too) Results not typical.]
Balance is important – and you can’t do everything on your own. I’m glad they worked out the situation, and that’s really awesome that he got a raise and an assistant! I have a lot of feelings about “ivy-league” type schools and the admissions process, because I think it causes kids to think in terms of what they can get out of things, and can cause them to feel bad if they don’t live up to impossible standards. It also obscures important things like self care and socialization. I have a lot of feelings about it because it can really fuck with a person’s sense of worth. I’ve had it happen to me, seen it happen to others, read countless terrible stories, etc.
Dorothy does volunteer. I can’t remember at what, but I remember it coming up in a conversation with Joyce. Whatever she does, Dorothy does well and puts forth her best effort, which we’ve seen in her journalism, her schoolwork, and her friendships. There’s no reason to think that she wouldn’t put forth the same amount of effort with RAing. We also already see that she’s taking notes on everyone, which is her organizational approach. Dorothy is the sort to balance doing good things with ambition, and I don’t see that as a bad thing. One of the strong points of Dorothy’s character is that she’s very good at balancing things. The fact that she approaches things methodically doesn’t mean that she doesn’t care, that’s just how she does things, and sometimes how she shows that she cares.
Soup kitchen iirc.
I like to imagine Roz is going to be advocating for Agatha. I realize she probably isn’t, but it makes me happy.
Wow. Just… wow. So we got Dorothy, “get those points on my resume, Ruth be damned” vs… Roz.
But seriously, Dorothy just gained all of the b**** points. She couldn’t wait a few days to see if Ruth was fired before trying to take her place?
Given that the position needs to be filled ASAP? No, she can’t.
Still plenty of dick points, though.
For the soul sake of taking a other step to being president… which isn’t really a nigh bar anymore. I’m not mad about Dorothy trying to replace Ruth I’m just going to be rubbing this in for the next 4 years.
Okay, fine.
But please tell me you won’t be rubbing it in for more than 4 years.
Hopefully not.. meanwhile at the lyrics super assholes aka the White House Trump is trying to see if you can have the entire President office redecorated gold.
The democrats are already pooching the resistance, it’s gonna be 8.
It’s a high bar if you’re not a cishet white dude.
I see no problem with someone trying to clear that bar by as much as possible, if only so they don’t trip over it
I don’t know what kind of RA Roz might be…she and Dorothy have that in common where they have very strong sense of beliefs like I said before, I can see them both having an issue of being too judgmental to actually get anywhere.
Someone yesterday mentioned that admin could pick someone who was next on the list to the person who actually got it. They could also get a sophomore from another dorm to move.
They could, but the implication here seems to be that interested girls in the wing are considered preferable choices. Which makes sense, as all they would have to do is move down the hall.
I like how Agatha looks a little bit confused in that last panel. It’s like she’s thinking “Why are you doing that? Wait, what am I doing out here?” It’s both funny and endearing.
Teleporting into the background is her mutant power.
She teleports unwillingly into the background whenever something weird happens.
Cool to know that Rachel is a sophomore
Dorothea gotta say it once again the office of President of the United States means nothing anymore. Last time I said Trump might be our president now to guarantee fact.
Don’t worry about the R.A job though I’m sure when it comes to giving a position of power to someone they’re not going to overlook the obvious better choice and pick the one who’s completely incompetent right ?
Oh god Mary’s gonna be the new RA.
Wildcard bongoes!
Alright Dorothy, you’re getting really sanctimonious now and it’s annoying.
Why do people expect 18 year olds to be infallible? There’s a reason it’s called “dumbing” of age.
Yeah. You have to be my age before you’re infallible.
Seems like the decision’s been made then actually if Ruth actually does get fired. Whether or not Roz would be the best choice they’ll likely go with someone who’s actually eligible over a freshman no matter how competent Dorothy would be and honestly I think they could do worse than Roz. I don’t know where the vibe comes from that she’d be completely incompetent comes from. Having a slightly off putting personality doesn’t mean she’d be incapable of doing the job more or less competently and as we learned from Ruth’s boss standards of competency aren’t actually that high and she doesn’t appear to have the major debilitating psychological and addiction issues that will likely lead to Ruth’s termination. She’s manipulative and slightly…idk what the word would be overzealous? when trying to prove a passion point but she’s not malicious or abusive.
Assuming there’s no surprise third potential possibility. Is Mary a freshman? I could see her applying out of spite.
Hell, RUTH would narc on her for the blackmail before she let that happen.
Because screw narcs, but screw Mary getting Ruth’s old job even harder.
‘I think they could do worse than Roz. ‘
Well, Mary lives on this floor.
Yeah I considered the possibility of Mary.
Roz is a freshman too I think, so she’s no more regularly eligible than Dorothy.
That said, I’d bet dollars to doughnuts Roz is more plugged into student life and the community than Dorothy, which might give her an unforeseen edge. (Also, Roz is rooming with Mary, and if she were RA she’d get the RA room aka Away From Mary.)
She’s also come to the attention of the administration before – making a porn video on site that embarrassed the school. She’s not getting the job.
Her off-putting personality is what makes people think she would be incompetent because her overzealous behaviour has resulted in bad decisions on her part before where her own inability to see how her actions come across to others has resulted in more harm than good. She has become aggressive in response to her points not being readily accepted before as well.
People can behave differently in different settings, but it is easy to imagine Roz’s behaviour being offputting to others for a variety of reasons.
Roz would make a supremely terrible R.A. Yes, a positive attitude about sex and consent are good qualities for an R.A., but she is EXTREMELY judgemental and is unwilling to accept that she doesn’t know everything, both of which are evident from her treatment of Joyce.
Isn’t the problem that Dorothy is knee-deep in or at the very least aware of all the against-the-rules stuff happening in the wing except for what led to the previous RA being removed?
Did she say the words “game show buzzer noise” or did she actually make the noise Willis answer me I don’t know how to interpret this comic
Looks like she said it.
Said it, I think.
I’m pretty sure he’d onomatopoeia that shit.
Related note, I just got “CATCH PHRASE!” in a loot box.
I love this strip so much! It’s a great Dorothy moment. She stands her ground, she lies out her reasoning, she shows she has made her homework and she makes her case. Dorothy WOULD be a good choice for RA.
And so would Roz!!!! That’s a great final panel. Dorothy has opened the door for freshmen to be RA? Well, she’s not the only candidate any longer then. And they are two good choices!
Who would be the better RA? The polite, ambitious nerd or the social, passionate party animal? Do you want an RA you can go to with your homework or with your STD test?
Vote Dorothy – wouldn’t it be nice if we could all get along?
Vote Roz – free condoms for everyone!
Roz would be a horrible choice. She’s thinks she knows what’s best for everyone regardless of whether or not they agree and to hell with them if they don’t get in line. If she was made RA the dorms would be far more sex positive and a safe place for minorities, but that’s pretty much it, and you’d still get that anyways if the RA went to Dorothy. If someone were to take a conflict to her she’d be incapable of being impartial, and honestly if it wasn’t about sex or prejudice I don’t think she’d even care to begin with.
Roz is only convinced that she’s the best candidate because she’s so full of herself. In her mind she clearly has the moral high ground, and as such it’s her duty to do this.
“Impartial” was the word I was looking for. I agree, it doesn’t feel like Roz would be likely to be impartial, while I feel Dorothy would be much more likely to handle things impartially. Dorothy seems likely to do more listening and less talking.
I see how that could make Roz a very compelling candidate, if you felt she was “partial” to one of your “sides.” Who doesn’t want an authority figure who’s automatically “on your side”?
Generic “you.”
Whoo, we got competition. This is going to get ugly.
And once again Agatha is a cute lil button.
Her middle name must be cutie pie or something. Agatha Cutie Pie Larson.
Headcanon!
so uhm has anybody thought about the fact that if Dorothy, or Roz for that matter, becomes RA…What will she do about Becky? Will she ignore it for Becky’s sake or will she report it because “that’s her duty now”. I hope to think she’ll help find a solution for Becky before she comes into a position where she’s not allowed to overlook it.
I don’t know if Roz knows about Becky, but it would be a question for Dorothy.
I’m pretty sure Roz would ignore it while helping Becky make more permanent arrangements regardless of what she’s supposed to do. Dorothy on the other hand I don’t actually trust to break rules especially when doing so threatens her ambitions.
Well, Dorothy’s been breaking the rules with Becky all along, so I’m not sure why you think that.
Granted becoming RA puts her in the position of enforcing the rules rather than just not reporting on them, but still.
As far as I recall Dorothy has yet to screw anyone over in the pursuit of her ambitions. She didn’t for example, break the Amazi-Girl’s secret identity story,
I can see how people might think that. Nobody cares that a nobody freshman might know, but if the RA knew and didn’t do anything then Dorothy might have to risk her position to help Becky. THere’s a real possibility that if the upper admin found out, Becky would get kicked off campus cause she isn’t a student. I was actually hoping Leslie might be able to take her in or something.
This might even push Dorothy to take a more active role in helping Becky get good, secure housing off-campus, and/or encouraging her to speak with Leslie (as much of the commenting base has advocated). Like thejeff, I don’t recall Dorothy ever pushing someone else down to get ahead, but Emily and Mav make good points – Dorothy may be held personally accountable if the administration found out she knew, and didn’t report it/do something about it, which could definitely threaten her chances with Yale.
I’d like to think Dorothy would decide to help resolve the issue before the administration finds out (and thus, is actually becomes a threat to her), rather than simply report it immediately to protect herself.
I’m pretty sure Dorothy has way too many plates in the air to /actually/ be a good choice. And this is where I disagree with the basic synopsis of yesterday, where her personal ambition is (allegedly) aligned with the common interests of the hall. They’re assuming Dotty can actually /do/ this.
She’s treating this as checkmarks to fill out – she /says as much/. I really don’t think it’s a stretch to say she might not be suitable for this. But for her overwork, I’m sure this wouldn’t be /disasteriffic/, but it doesn’t leave me with any confidence she’s /actually/ the best.
…/and then she’s overworked/. And Roz has already shown she’s /also/ willing to put the time in to help people.
Mind you, I’m pretty sure Dotty will get it. See, this way she can start to /drop/ plates and let it all crash down in a way that is disasteriffic for /her/. And Walky. And y’all didn’t think I only thrived on the drama of wlw, did you? What would /truly/ be beautiful is if we are left with Dorothy going “This is Fine” as her personal life crashes around her while Billie and Ruth get to start recovering – not ‘everythign is happy’, but ‘things are clearly improving, and they still love each other’.
Because holy /shit/ do I not get enough lesbian prayers answered (Unsurprisingly, since, yanno.) And I needs me my drama. (“But Rutee, what about whatever Mike has coming?” I don’t know, I can’t see the future. Not all drama is equally satisfying. that’s got a good chance of just being suffering)
Dorothy has homework, extracurriculars, volunteer work, and she’s trying for a social life.
Roz has homework too, but likely not as much because she’s probably not striving for ‘immaculate grades with a heavy course load’ to impress the Ivy leagues and the only other responsibility we know she has is volunteering for Planned Parenthood. She probably also joins in some activism, at least online if nothing else, but we don’t know that for sure. So, school, PP, and partying.
Also political engagements, but I can see her using her job to justify ditching those.
Dorothy *finds a hole and fills it with more stuff*. Roz pointedly relaxes /outside of carefully preplanned and justified events/. Trying to sum it up like /that/ is not actually looking at the personalities involved.
I mean, I can almost guarantee that Dotty spends more time in class, purely because she’s taken on a *HEAVY* courseload. And the general rule is, you spend twice what you do in class, on homework. So spending more time in class /drastically/ increases her work time – especially since she’s very methodical and trying to do everything perfectly.
Dotty went to a party *AND TRIED TO WORK ON A TERM PAPER ON HER PHONE*. It really shouldn’t be controversial that she has far less spare time here.
Oh no, I was agreeing with you! Roz has far more personal time.
Dorothy is very very busy. Roz’s paragraph ended up longer, because I was trying to explain why she has far less work to do than Dorothy.
Though, she was actually working on the term paper at the beach, not the party, your point stands.
Do we know what Roz has on her plate though? She has her activism, and I’m not sure what form that takes–meetings, protests, volunteer work? She also has a much more active social life than Dorothy. And while I don’t think she’s trying to get into an Ivy League school like Dorothy is, she does take classes and presumably tries to get good grades.
We know Roz can actually go to parties without an overriding reason and doesn’t feel the need to try to do schoolwork during them!
This is a good analysis. I had similar concerns about Dorothy in yesterday’s strip myself.
Same. I’ve thought that too, but the thing is *nobody* can do everything at once. Not even Dorothy.
Idk. I like Dorothy, but Im split from the “I’ll help if I get something out of it” mentality that this situation is feeling like a bit.
Given the potentially bad press the university could’ve gotten with Ruth. The very last person they’d want would be the girl with the sex video.
I think that you’re vastly overestimating the college administration’s ability to do ‘due diligence’.
The Dean took a very dim view and while he’s unlikely to be involved with the hiring I doubt any of the supervisors want to make a second hiring mistake since the situation with Ruth had a lot of lawsuit potential. Dorothy is the safest choice unless a new old character will be brought in to replace Ruth.
Yep, as I suspected: Willis want to keep Ruth in the role. The only way he can do that is by ruling out all the reasonable replacements and imposing one who will be so useless and will ultimately become so despised that readers will beg to have Ruth back.
No, I’ve never liked Roz, why do you ask?
Nah, he could just keep Chloe in the position if all he wanted was to fill it til Ruth was back. We don’t actually care, after all. Setting this up means he /wants/ a student to have it – from there, you have to look at their narrative potential. And /that/ is absolutely, 100% Dotty. Because Dotty has /been/ spinning too many plates.
…Actually, no, I’m being unfair. He could give ti to Roz when /Chloe/ points out that Dotty is spinning too many plates. That’s a pretty real possibility, but it includes too little suffering for Dorothy to seem likely, to me.
“Sarah hissed at me” XD Yeah well Sarah only likes to take care (and say “I told you so”) to the very limited number of people she calls “I don’t want to baseball bat them” XD
She’s not wrong.
and its not like she sabotaged the current RA at all.
Billy. You’ve got more important things to be concerned about than the new RA. Ruth staying the RA was never on the table. and honestly, was one of the stressors on her.
She needs to accept student loans on her own (she’s old enough and if she wrote why she doesn’t have parential support the FAFSA folks won’t consider her family income when determining her qualification).
that way she doesn’t go home, keeps in college as she seems to want (and helps provide her automatic support structure), and helps her have a way to keep going after college too (getting a job away from the home)
FOREIGN STUDENT, DO YOU READ IT?
Indiana resident, as I understand it. Probably dual citizen.
OTOH, it’s not so easy to get FAFSA to ignore family support. She’s not independent and still gets support from SIR.
Being a resident means she doesn’t have to pay out-of-state tuition. It doesn’t at all mean she’s eligible for government loans, if she is not actually a citizen.
Are loans really that different for most students? Does it vary by state, or something? I was not considered independent and all my loans are in my name – I didn’t need a co-signer. It was probably different in the past…
Then again, in Ruth’s case you can’t put a monetary value on your sanity. If she has to take out loans to stay in housing, she definitely should.
I don’t know whether Ruth has US citizenship or not.
But assuming US Citizenship, if a student is considered an orphan (both parents died after the child reached a certain age), that student is typically automatically considered independent for financial aid purposes (NOT necessarily for taxes purposes; the two systems are quite distinct), regardless of whether or not someone is helping support the student financially.
FAFSA rules basically say “If you’re under 24, you’re a dependent, UNLESS you’re
a) married,
b) have a dependent of your own (not yourself),
c) an orphan, ward of court, or in foster care after age 13,
d) pursuing a master’s degree or later,
e) an emancipated minor (or in guardianship),
f) an “approved/verified” homeless
g) a veteran or active duty member of US military.”
studentaid.ed. gov/sa/fafsa/filling-out/dependency
That being said, any dependent student can automatically take an annual student loan up to $6,500 their sophomore year…which scales up to $10,500 for an independent student. (Nifty summary chart: http://financialaid.umbc .edu/types-of-aid/federal-loans/stafford-limits/
Considering even /resident/ tuition and fees at IU were over $20,000, that’s not enough to afford annual schooling costs. https://admissions.indiana .edu/cost-financial-aid/tuition-fees.html
That being said, we’re not sure if Ruth even qualifies for US aid in that way, if she doesn’t also have US citizenship. I’m not sure what options there may be as a foreign student. But being a US student, even an independent one, even one taking student loans, doesn’t automatically solve all her problems.
However, IU being a state school, they probably have a good number of needs-based aid that Ruth may qualify for…and again, IF she’s a US citizen, and IF her parents died after she reached age 13, she’d be qualifying for that needs-based aid as an independent student, regardless of any financial support from Sir. This could be a good thing for her junior year (that we will probably never see). 🙂
Whatever options she may have there, it’s unlikely she’d be able to suddenly apply for them to kick in right now (except, perhaps, student loans). Usually these things have annual deadlines, semi-annual (by semester) deadlines at best. She’ll probably still have financial needs to stay in school for this semester.
Sources: Listed, plus high school guidance counselor.
Well, seems like we open up to a game of Team Dorothy or Team Roz.
Place your bets, people, plaaaace your beeeeets
I sense … Election! In which case Roz will probably win but make a lousy RA. Dorothy studies way too hard to give the floor any attention at all.
Billie will be best RA if Ruth doesn’t make a come-back.
Which is why candidates aren’t limited to those available from within the wing Dorothy.
Am I the only person who thinks that Ruth is probably going to get the job back? Like, none of her abuse or drinking actually came out. She got hospitalized due to a health problem – imagine if she’s broken a leg. Yes, she couldn’t do her job for a while because of it, but that’s not enough reason to fire someone.
And this storyline is about the conflict of who MIGHT be the next RA, not about someone actually ending up BEING the next RA. IMHO
Of course she will, but only after she’s better, which should take at least weeks, if not months. We need an acting RA in the meantime. Chloe was too busy to even check up on Ruth, so she’s not going to be good.
Though, again, no RA would be better than the Roz we know doing the job. She could get better, but, so far, she’s a horrible choice.
Nah.
They DO know Ruth drank. Chloe asked her why she did it.
They don’t know about the abuse though they do know about her and Billie.
It’s really weird that people are defending Roz. No, she’s not the liberal counterpart to Mary, as there frankly is no liberal counterpart to that sort of bullshit. But she is just as judgemental and ignorant of the people around her as Joyce’s mother and brother. If she had more influence on Joyce’s life, she would be their counterpart.
I mean, what happened when Joyce learned about homosexuality? Roz got mad at her. How dare she be treated well for coming around, when Roz knew it all along? And how little did Roz care about the possible rape? Just to make fun of it, until she found out that she might actually be talking to someone involved in it. (Dorothy had to be cajoled to even attend such a party.)
And we also know that she’s liberal at least in part to be different from her sister. She said as much with the sex tape. That letting everyone know she’s not just a clone of her sister was a big part of why she did what she did.
Yeah, she’s good at being a jerk to Mary, who deserves it. But so are Billie, Ruth, Carla, and probably Sarah. They’d all make horrible RAs. Being a jerk is the last thing you need in an RA.
As much as I don’t think Dorothy would have the time unless she put some of her current stuff on the back burner, she’d be infinitely better than Roz at this job. Heck, not having an RA would be better. The one major problem–Mary–is already held in check by the rest of the wing.
Plus, well, you don’t vote for the asshole when you’ve got a good person you could vote for instead.
roz actually meant she was going to nominate Agatha
or at least that’s what I thought when I first read it
its not going to happen but it’d be better
Roz is the kind of kid whose heart is in the right place – she wants to ally so very much, and she wants to ally well, but she’s the kind of person who’d out someone on principle so she can make her great stand.
Or, rather, I was outed by a Roz once and so that particular brand of judgemental allyship immediately gets my suspicion & wariness going. Roz doesn’t have the first-hand experience necessary to understand the splash damage her actions can cause – all she sees is her opportunity to “take a stand” for “what’s right”.
Roz and Dorothy are two sides of the same disingenuous allyship coin, actually – they both don’t have the life experience to know the best way to approach a problem, but they think they do, and hell if they’re going to listen to anyone who disagrees.
(and I say that as a person who loves Dorothy and Roz both to death as characters – they’re great characters, and genuinely good people. But you know what they say about the road to Hell – I’ve generally had more damage done to me by well-meaning ignorant allies bumbling their way through something over their heads than by outright bigots – cuz I expect bigots to be horrible, but I have a hard time anticipating well-meaning fuckups. – e.g. “What part of ‘closeted’ did you not understand? In what universe would you think using me as your anti-bigotry prop and outing me in the process would be okay?!”).
I agree – that’s why I was saying earlier that this job is much more important than people seem to think. What if someone comes to them about things like that? About their queerness, or about mental health, or about other serious issues? These things are not black and white, and they take time to solve – it’s not as simple as “this happened. do A then do B then *fixed!*”. There are nuances and people will not always evolve at the pace a person like Dorothy or Roz might expect them to, since you are right in that they just think they know how to handle it. With all the shit that’s been happening lately, it’s definitely not unrealistic to be worried about the ability to help with these problems.
You can spin a lot of what ifs and it seems to be different at different schools (and probably in different years too – we’ve probably got people here remembering RAs from the 70s & in school today).
Still, it’s a job offered to 19 year olds with a couple weeks of training. The only examples we’ve seen in the strip are Ruth and the Star Trek fan on the guys floor, neither of whom inspire great confidence.
We’re not getting professional counselors or social workers here.
Yeah, I’m definitely biased in that my experience was different. If I had my way, there would be legions of mental health professionals at schools across the country. There is a lot of pressure on RAs in many places to solve people’s problems. I don’t think they are qualified to deal with it but regardless of how prepared they are, people have and do come to them for things like that, and their reaction has the potential to influence the way people think about the school and its ability to help them, for better or worse.
This is because a student is more likely to go to another friend or an RA rather than straight up go to counseling, which is often not as accessible to them as their friends and RAs (who in situations like this are only a year removed from them, so close in age) are. So these people, until the student does (or maybe never) gets professional help, end up being their surrogate therapists. Not in absolutely all cases, but it’s totally fucked up that the system is set up that way. Ruth only got help because another student said something, and I’m sure the same will happen for Billie.
Roz was mad at Joyce because Joyce would not accept responsibility for the past harm she caused LGBT+ people and tried to act like it was ‘the church’ as some far off entity rather than personal shit she did. She went way too far though, and it’s fair to be mad at her for it. The other two things on your list though:
Roz did not make fun of any potential rape. She asked how they liked the party, and then complained it ended early because of ‘some fight or something’. Some fight. As in, she knew nothing about any potential rape. She offered Joyce a card to reach someone to talk to when she found out.
That is not what she said. She said that she made the tape to show that her body is her own and that despite people judging her for it, nobody was harmed and nothing bad happened.
Not liking Roz is fine, but two of the things you are mad about are not things that happened.
It’s not at all weird that people are defending Roz when she’s being accused of things that didn’t happen, that she played no part in, or had no knowledge of.
Roz did not, and still doesn’t really know what happened to Joyce at the party. She clearly suspects, since she gave Joyce that card, but she had no way of knowing what would happen, or what did happen.
Nor does Roz have some kind of supernatural ability to detect when somebody she barely knows gets attacked at a party. She may have been at that same party, but she quite clearly did not see the attack, or the aftermath. Most people at the party probably had no more of an idea what happened. Nobody was likely paying attention until the commotion caused by Sarah going Old Testament on Ryan. I doubt many people realized what led up to that.
Roz wasn’t even the one who brought Joyce to the party. She came along with Dorothy. Shouldn’t we all be grossly acting like it’s Dorothy’s fault then? No, we should not, because that’s no less ridiculous. Ryan is the one to blame for what happened, and no-one else.
It’s rather messed up how people seem to want to spread the blame for his actions to Roz, who could just as easily been the one he targeted
Alright, if we’re going to start arguing about who would be a better RA, let’s come up with team names. Roz supporters, you’re the Roztafarians. Dorothy supporters, you’re the… “Keener to Please”? “Leave it to Keener”? “Dot Coms”? Work it out amongst yourselves and let’s start the debate!
Team “Backing Becky!”
…Look. don’t bother me with details.
Agatha for RA!
Mostly because I want to see more Agatha.
I think she would do a great job!
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/cashin/
Although there might be some conflicting interests.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/steplightly/
And I would love to see more of her!
Honestly, I think both Roz and Dorothy would be terrible RAs. Terrible in different ways from Ruth, but still terrible.
Dorothy is not trustworthy enough to most people on the floor – and she’s not good at cultivating the kind of trust needed for an RA. Which is good if she’s planning to be a politician – learning to work the room and negotiate is more important for a politician than learning to engender the kind of deep trust that makes for a good RA. Worse – Dorothy doesn’t have the kind of experience necessary to be worthy of that kind of trust, because if a student dealing with homophobic bullying drops in her lap, she’ll fuck it up just because she doesn’t know what works and what doesn’t for this sort of thing.
Roz, on the other hand, is a bad choice for the same core reason: Marginalized people won’t trust her. Different cause, same reason. Roz treats people as her pet cause, and she doesn’t have the life experience to understand how harmful the splash damage of what she does can be. I’ve said elsewhere – she’s the kind of person who would blurt out, “[Name] is gay, do you think they belong in a camp?!” without stopping to think that, hm, [Name] isn’t well known to be gay and maybe they don’t want it widely known because reasons?
Like, intellectually, she grasps that gay people face discrimination, but she hasn’t shown the capacity to think ahead.
Roz is the social justice paladin: All about smiting the evil, not so concerned about protecting the weak.
And I admit I’m probably biased cuz I was outed by a Roz type once, but yeah I wouldn’t trust Roz in a position of authority any more than Dorothy. Give them both a few years and they’d both have the material to become good RAs – but currently neither of them would be good at the job.
Which probably means Chloe’s gonna split the difference and have each of them on half time and hijinks of power-struggle will ensue. 😛
Hm, maybe I’m missing something as the post of RA does not exist in German student housing.
Why do you have to,”deeply trust” this person? Does the role encompass more that some sort of class leader, i.e. hold meetings to inform students of rules, regulations and on current events, maybe organize a group event once in a while, have the authority to remind people of rules and impose sanctions for minor infringements (like making to much noise), and have “house right” to throw out anyone who does not belong? Some of you seem to describe a counseling job that no one that age can safely handle.
That’s what I’ve been wondering too. Maybe that’s the hypothetical perfect RA, but it wasn’t my experience and it doesn’t seem to be the case here either.
I think both Dorothy or Roz would easily clear the low bar that Ruth set. Neither will be threatening anyone’s femurs or sexually harassing their charges. Roz might actually harass Mary though.
In North America, RA’s are kind of one part mentor, one part crisis intervention specialist, one part superintendent, one part camp counselor, in addition to what you describe – they not only enforce and inform the rules, but also help teach study habits, manage crises and mediate disputes. A good RA (admittedly not many are good at it) is trusted by those on the floor when they’re facing problems they don’t know how to handle.
The RA is pretty much just there for a point of immediate order in conflict resolution and to tell peoplet o stop being complete pillocks to each other. Dotty’s /only/ problem here is that it’s going to impose further on her time. Roz doesn’t seem mistrusted by the floor at all though.
I’m an idiot.
I JUST NOTICED that the chapter title is a wordplay on “power vacuum”. I think this makes this the central conflict of the chapter.
Ah, the Glower and the Glory!
Here comes a new challenger!
These last two strips have been very interesting, Dorothy is acting in a manner I could imagine a young Hillary Clinton acting like.
She sees an opportunity for herself, she’s found out information to help support her claim and has decided to act on it and she’s getting (some) commentators acting negatively towards her for it.
Dorothy isn’t throwing Ruth under a bus, an RA is needed and shes stating her case why she should be considered.
She’s trying to get ahead in life and has goals is actively working towards those goals, this is a good thing.
Yet more then a few on here (who probably support Clinton and consider themselves left wing) are seeing Dorothy’s actions as cold, calculating, taken advantage of Ruth’s situation, as tactless
Basically it sounds like Dorothy is being accused of not acting like a “good women” should
Which is something I didn’t expect to see a lot of on this site so, again, some very good writing
Do mind a lot of people here agree with the accuser’s line of thought here. I will go ahead and say a readership consisting mostly of LGBT folks, feminists and their supporters have better reasons than “not how a good woman should act like.”
I don’t care what’s in her pants, that IS cold. And while the cold alone doesn’t bother me personally, where she found it appropriate to act cold is… eeeugh. No PERSON should act as she does in this situation, period.
That’s the thing though it isn’t cold, the dorm needs an RA now, not later, not when Ruth might (or might not) get better.
The position may (or may not) come up and Dorothy is making sure she has a good shot at the position.
She knows that to get ahead she has to be proactive, if she thinks it’ll help her later, so shes putting herself in a position to be chosen.
If she did nothing do you think it’ll help her chances later? That whoever chooses the next RA will go “Dorothy you didn’t put yourself forward so heres the position” of course not.
She’d be a better RA then Ruth was and wants the position and has shown, through her volunteering at soup kitchens, that she does care
If, by some chance, it turns out she doesn’t care (unlikely but still possible) all that much but does a good job as RA then it doesn’t matter what her feelings are
It disturbs me a little to see the reactions to Dorothy going ahead and actively seeking out the position as if what shes doing is a bad thing, it isn’t and I agree with her about not being shamed for it.
While I don’t have an issue with Dorothy wanting the position, I can see why people would because technically the job isn’t even open yet. Ruth has not been fired. Had she put herself forward when the job became available, that’d be one thing, but she’s angling on a job that is taken, and a lot of people have an issue with it.
I guess my main point is that Dorothy is doing what she (thinks) she needs to do to get ahead and part of that is when you spot an opportunity you go for it.
Also that what Dorothy is doing is what I’d have expected a young Hillary Clinton to do yet Dorothy is getting (some) flak on here that
As I said I’m finding this storyline very interesting as things aren’t quite so black and white
It’s so much wrong as it is unempathetic, I guess. This is going to make things much harder for Ruth and while that isn’t Dorothy’s responsibility, I can see people being upset for the person getting screwed over (again, through no fault of Dorothy’s own). I’m sure most politicians have made decisions that may not have been wrong but still screwed people over and it’s valid to be upset that that happened.
Yeah that’s a fair point. If Dorothy gets the job then not good for Billie and Ruth but good for everyone else, Ruth gets reinstated then good for her and Billie but may (or may not) be good for the rest of dorm.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see if Ruth is fired and if not, how well her treatment helps with RA-ing.
Come for the drama, stay for the…well more drama 🙂
“That’s the thing though it isn’t cold, the dorm needs an RA now, not later, not when Ruth might (or might not) get better.”
I recall the dorm going on just fine with an RA who regularly threatened tearing out everyone’s femurs. But let’s assume a position that is mostly ceremonial when done by someone more sensible is needed right now and move on to your next points.
“If she did nothing do you think it’ll help her chances later? ”
On one hand, no, by COLD calculation it is a sensible move, but on the other hand I could not care less because her effectiveness is not why I don’t like what she’s doing.
“She’d be a better RA then Ruth was and wants the position and has shown, through her volunteering at soup kitchens, that she does care”
Emphasis on showing. Again, a calculated move to show off her empathy – which she DOES have in aboundance, mind. While I have no doubts in my mind she genuinely means to help as well, you can safely bet everything you own she kept records of her philantrophism, just so everyone who looks her up by the time she runs for office will know how nice she was in her teens. I wouldn’t be surprised if she tallied up every single bowl of soup she personally gave out. She is colder than our new freezer.
“I recall the dorm going on just fine with an RA who regularly threatened tearing out everyone’s femurs”
Sure, apart from Joyce being freaked out about Ruths implied violence, Ruth baiting Billie into throwing a punch and not looking out for Carla against Mary
So what if Dorothy’s empathy is calculated, you can do good things for other people which also help yourself. She may well have tallied up every bowl of soup she’s served but I’ll bet that’s it more then the person she wants to replace has ever done plus the people she’s served probably aren’t as interested in her motivations then getting a warm meal
I’d suggest that the rest of her peers could do worse then being as “cold” as Dorothy is
“Sure, apart from Joyce being freaked out about Ruths implied violence, Ruth baiting Billie into throwing a punch and not looking out for Carla against Mary”
What, we suddenly AREN’T callously disregarding feelings here anymore? I’m just trying to cope here.
By your own logic that Billie, the depressed alcoholic dependent girl, is not even worth addressing… Joyce? Got over it the next day. Billie? Ruth got a nice show of authority out of it. Instant respect, good for the whole, fuck Billie. Carla? Solved it herself just fine.
That’s not my argument, mind. That is just what I am hearing when you say “who cares”.
And most important of all, the people she would watch over already object to her taking the job for outspoken reasons. They don’t even have to be right(though I will make the bold stance and say they are, because she is cloying for a job already taken by a person taken to the hospital yesterday), until she genuinely addresses these concerns, her authority will erode faster than pig iron left outside during monsoon.
In THEORY she would do a great job, since she is immensely qualified and you would never let you forget it. In PRACTICE she already fucked it up.
“And most important of all, the people she would watch over already object to her taking the job for outspoken reasons.”
The only person I’ve seen objecting, since Dorothy has only just announced it, is Billie and she’s hardly impartial in all this
She might or might not do a good job (I think her organisation skills means she’d do a decent job at the least) but she’d certainly do a better job than Ruth
Please start to understand how terrible a job Ruth did is not the main concern of anyone who makes arguments the likes of mine.
I DO know Dorothy would do a good job. And I don’t CARE.
“The only person I’ve seen objecting, since Dorothy has only just announced it, is Billie and she’s hardly impartial in all this”
Again I don’t believe you understand. You base your arguments purely in moral and practical standards the majority of us share, and you emphatize them repeatedly. That is unecessary. I AGREE with you on every point you bring up in favor of Dorothy.
But until you address the cons instead of repeating the pros over and over again, this conversation won’t go anywhere.
The cons are minor in comparison to the positives
That’s not addressing them, that’s dismissing them. But beside that, everyone has their own priorities. Regardless of how important a problem is to you personally, or even objectively to everyone involved, it needs to be addressed. Dorothy could have done this SO much better. But she, similarly to you, dismisses Billie instead of addressing her issue.
As a figure in a position of authority, even one as inconsequential as an RA, you need to aim and take care of everyone. Not just the people who agree with you, not just everyone sans a few acceptable losses, EVERYONE. She already got Billie pissed and Joyce doubting her motives. She can still succeed, but it was a long shot even before the last two pages happened. Good luck, she will most certainly NEED it.
I mean, Ruth is a bad RA, overall, since she was too self-absorbed to do her job, right? Dorothy is too deep down in the rabbit hole herself to help Billie instead of seeing her disappointment as a personal challenge she has to overcome.
Billie is not an enemy, she is her future charge. She should be helping and assuring her, demonstrating that she does in fact have what it takes, not going on about how great a job she will do on paper.
“Dorothy could have done this SO much better”
Yeah she could have but shes also 18 and is learning so shes not the finished product yet
“But she, similarly to you, dismisses Billie instead of addressing her issue. ”
I don’t think Dorothy has dismissed Billie but rather has answered her question and has moved on
“you need to aim and take care of everyone. Not just the people who agree with you, not just everyone sans a few acceptable losses, EVERYONE”
Well you should but that’s not always possible, I mean can you take of everyone in a dorm that has Carla and Mary in it?
“She already got Billie pissed and Joyce doubting her motives”
Oprah Winfrey could have been appointed RA and Billie would be still be pissed and yeah Joyce is doubting but I think she’ll come around
At the moment it seems like Billie and Joyce are both working on emotional arguments whereas Dorothy is working on a logical argument but Joyce has shown that logic can, with suitable motivation, cause her to change her opinions
I think the last post I made while you typed is a partial answer to the above. For the rest:
“Yeah she could have but shes also 18 and is learning so shes not the finished product yet ”
…Nor is literally everyone else, Ruth included. The comic is titled Dumbing of Age. Let’s ice this line of thought._.
“I don’t think Dorothy has dismissed Billie but rather has answered her question and has moved on”
That is a VERY literal interpretation of what happened there. Consider it a bit more deep, meta than that. Again, Billie is her future charge. She is clearly distressed. Just ANSWERING the question is not enough, certainly not in a way that relates to her own motives. “She would do a good job” is what Dorothy said. Does Billie care right now? Not really. What Dorothy should do is ask, to understand in depth why Billie cares and help fill the hole in her heart. It’s difficult – welcome to leadership.
”
Oprah Winfrey could have been appointed RA and Billie would be still be pissed”
On the contrary, I think one of the most successful talk show hosts of her generation would have the rhetoric needed to pacify a confused and hurt dissident.
“That is a VERY literal interpretation of what happened there. Consider it a bit more deep, meta than that. Again, Billie is her future charge. She is clearly distressed. Just ANSWERING the question is not enough, certainly not in a way that relates to her own motives.”
I have considered, sorry but I’m at work so my replies are probably shorter then they should be.
I think Dorothy knows that the state of mind Billie is in then theres no way that Billie is in the mood to listen to anything Dorothy could say so instead of inflaming the situation shes walking away as, to her, that’s the best method of diffusing the situation
Not even the combined power of Oprah and Ellen could help in this situation
I must not let you believe anything of the sort. I have been a long time sufferer of major depression before being debatably cured (Thanks to my therapist and quetiapine). It lasted for the better part of my teenage years.
Under those years, I didn’t automatically disregard every word of reason that passed my earlobes. I did occassionally listen to people. Most of those people I listened to because they were very good at talking. Such as, say, my therapist.
Unless you are saying talking you through your problems to resolve your depression doesn’t work and psychotherapy is a lie perpetrated by the Illuminati?
Unless you are saying talking you through your problems to resolve your depression doesn’t work and psychotherapy is a lie perpetrated by the Illuminati?
Illuminati?
It’s been getting very serious and I tried to lighten it up, okay
Point is people can be convinced of your position regardless of their mental state until you reach a lower limit – that being “vegetable”. As long as Billie understands words, one of the right people can say the right words at any given time to calm her down. Being on the deep end of a depressive episode only makes it a lot harder. Billie was judged low-risk enough to be let back into society – If Dorothy is has the leader potential you make it out to be, she should have this in the bag.
Ah ok sorry, wasn’t sure what that meant.
“If Dorothy is has the leader potential you make it out to be, she should have this in the bag.”
Oh I strongly disagree with that, that’s asking far too much of someone in the position of an RA.
Maybe once Billie has had some time in therapy and Dorothy has had some training then maybe but at the moment that’s an unreasonable expectation.
Personally I’m thinking ‘actually this is probably a good idea’. Is it a bit quick on the situation and not particularly nice to Ruth? Yes. But the job still needs to be done, Chloe is overbooked to do it, and let’s be clear here Ruth is currently in-patient and even after she’s discharged I guarantee you she’ll be having at least weekly therapy sessions, and probably more than that. As someone who’s trying to manage a single class during a partial hospitalization program, let me tell you there is no way she’ll be capable of managing multiple classes and a job on top of that. Depression saps your energy, and even though therapy helps it can be exhausting as well. Ruth is going to be drained. And given the emotional labor required for an RA, that’s not a good combination for her. If you thought Ruth was having trouble doing her RA duties before this? She’s not going to be all that much better now, not for at least the rest of the year. Ruth’s job and living situation are now jeopardized no matter what, because even if the university overlooks all her issues (let’s just be entirely clear here, knowing an underage student has drinking issues and entering a relationship with her founded on mutual self-destruction and drinking is literally the exact opposite of what an RA should be doing, especially on a dry campus), she can’t perform the needed duties. What Ruth needs now is a financial hero.
Dorothy’s campaigning is a bit tactless, but at the same time it is pretty immediately clear Ruth can’t and won’t be able to. (And RA’s a job that you can reassess every academic year, I’ve had friends who did it one year and dropped or considered dropping it the next because balancing it with academics is difficult even for a hyper-capable, well-adjusted individual like Dorothy.) And it really does need someone doing it. So you know, someone performing those duties and offering to take the job IS needed.
Yeah, on the surface I agree. But that lack of tact kills her attempt to become RA because now the dorm members won’t listen to her. So while it needed to be done, the haste at which she has done so renders it kind of a moot point.
Especially since she aims to become RA next year, not this one. She could have sat out at least until they sanitized the RA room from all the spilled/vomited 90%+ alcohol it no doubt reeks of.
“But that lack of tact kills her attempt to become RA because now the dorm members won’t listen to her.”
May or may not listen to her you mean, its quite possible that after all the drama with Ruth they may well want a quiet, nerdy type as RA plus if it happens next year that’s a lot of time for Dorothy to improve (or get invited to Yale)
I mean, yeah, as a hypothetical that’s a valid point but, we have seen no indication of such sentiments yeto.o It’s a pretty big shot in the dark.
That’s a fair point, I’m looking at this from what I would be thinking if I was in that situation and being a 43 year old guy it probably means my thoughts are as wrong as they possibly could be
I assume you refer to yourself as a stereotypical male since you figure your gender is relevant. In that case, yes, your idea is a bit too much on the practical, deliberate side of things.
Most people didn’t even give a potential new RA any thought, I’d expect. They are students in a comic called Dumbing of Age. Their immediate concerns are probably limited to “next exam” and “dinner.”
totally forgot your kids were born on my birthday
As I expected, Pudd’nhead Chloe has no problem with freshman Dorothy as RA.
as a former IU RA you must at least be a sophomore to be Resident Assistnat (unless they changed the rules in the last 16 years) But Dorothy strikes me as the kind of girls with enough AP credits from HS to be a sophomore credit wise.
Good old “So technically I’m a sophomore” AP crediting.