“Some crazy lady just appeared out of nowhere and shot at me with Nerf! Ill show her! I’ll show all of them! Nobody will dare be mean to me if I become a congresswoman!”
But she couldn’t, with her lack of a Batman-esque background story catalyst!
Now, having been shot by a crazed old woman with a nerf-gun, she will have found her calling!
..wait, no, think that’s the one that leads to her becoming a zany supervillain who tries to take revenge upon the world with a giant multi-shot nerf cannon.
It’s hard days and harder nights patrolling these time streets. A dame walks into my office, with eyes from the future and a face from yesterday. She knows me, familiarly but I haven’t met her yet. She wants me to do one last job for her, for the first time. The names. Ana. I run this time detective agency, but the work runs me. And this time machine.
The DeSanto family isn’t excessively numerous after all, they’re all just future versions of Riley. (Yes, even the DeSantos who will only exist when the narrative needs them.)
This is clearly suicide, by all models, even the legal one.
Why? Because suicide is only illegal to attempt. If you succeed, the time paradox would destroy the legal system along with everything else. No legal system, no crime.
Okay, maybe not in the branching futures universe, but that one’s a cop-out. Branching futures mean there’s no consequences for anything you do – just hop to a new alternate, and you’re clear.
And if you spawned that universe by killing someone, then there’s a chance that universe’s police are looking for that killer.
And if you’re in a universe where you DIDN’T kill someone… well, whatever motive you had for killing them goes unrealized. But yes, having a massive undo button like that is a cop out… but how does there being a cop out change any of the facts?
… well to the extent that having a time travel discussion counts as facts.
I think it depends on if/how the paradox is resolved.
If your adult self simply blips out of existence, it’s suicide. If your baby self dies, but your adult self somehow sticks around, now orphaned from the timeline you originated from, then it’s murder.
If it turns out the universe is totally cool with a causal paradox, then it’s both, but also neither.
I hereby declare us in a state of Categorically Ontological Metanecessity, which is the required new ontological state of requiring a new ontological state.
Why? I have heard about a canonical (!) relic of the head of John the Baptist as 5 year old, from some time in the Middle Ages. Wikipedia and a quick google at least confirm that there are several specimen of this relic around.
A time-traveling John could explain this! And also the distinction between John the Baptist, John the Apostle, and John the Revelator! The theological ramifications are as radical as they are blasphemous! I love it!
I love Squirrel Girl, just got the fourth book, but haven’t read it yet. Ryan North is my hero, I would marry him if I wasn’t already married, a male, and straight. Just got into Gwenpool, bought the first book, but again, haven’t read it yet.
She ran for congress at 25, and is running for reelection right now, so she’s presumably around 27. That means she would have been 8 around 1997.
Since the main event in Superhero films at that time was Batman & Robin (and you can bet she heard every terrible Robin joke imaginable from her peers), I’m gonna assume she liked superheroes from cartoons and comic books.
I can think of two characters who would suit her; Freakazoid and Impulse. Both have her lack of maturity, her sense of humor, and super speed.
I am also choosing to believe she stuck around with Impulse long enough to become a fan of the sublime Young Justice book.
According to Mary, she’s now 30 (or close enough to it that Roz doesn’t correct her), so this isn’t her first re-election. So closer to 1994, which is still perfect timing for a bunch of fun superheroes.
What about DoA’s floating timeline? If Robin was also 29 at the beginning of the comic (DoA-September, real world 2010) she would have been born in 1981.
Floating timeline only means her birthdate goes up one year every time RL does. So, this year, she’d be 8 in 1994. Next year, she will have been 8 in 1995, and so on and so forth. What year it would have been in 2010 is neat, but not very relevant to discussing it in 2016. Also, assuming Mary is correct and she’s 30 (or maybe 29 or 31) she’d have been so in 1979-1981.
I’ve been fighting for over a month to get my school to take that stance and they’ve been fighting every step of the way even though we got the incident on camera.
I’d fucking murder people to get to a world where “sexual assault is bad” was an actual noncontroversial stance rather than something people paid lip service too while taking any justification no matter how flimsy to savage the victim (what, did the victim get PTSD from the event that gives them bad flashbacks and other symptoms, why don’t we use that to discredit them as a liar because their emotional response is all fucked up).
I think that it’s more a matter of what’s easier to deal with in a political level than the recognition of something being right or wrong. So the authorities know it’s wrong, but it’s easier to pretend it’s not as wrong as it is. Or at all.
I think most people agree on attempted sexual assault being bad, but they don’t agree on what qualifies as attempted sexual assault. (I’m totally siding with you, it’s just a nuance I wanted to add)
Attempted sexual assault is bad in the sense that you shouldn’t do it, not too controversial.
Even actual sexual assault is bad in the sense that the perpetrators belong in a cell, very controversial. Look at any cases and see how often you hear people anxious to excuse “good boys making one mistake”, and to fault “girls who should know better than to get in such situations”, when their story is believed at all.
And honestly, sexual assault is bad in the sense of something worse than wearing a low neckline or being gay, even that is controversial. To some, all are examples of failures to be proper, and there’s no reason to single out the harmful and violent one as the worst.
It seems like this should be basic human decency. Causes like feminism have been working at making it so. But not with all the humans we have right now.
I’d say it’s generally accepted that sexual assault is bad, which is why people go to great lengths to find excuses why particular instances aren’t “really” sexual assault.
Few say “Yay, Rape!” Many say “Rape is horrible, but this specific case isn’t rape because …”
OTOH, Robin’s motives here aren’t the best. Not even a general “believe women when they say they’ve been assaulted”, but just “I’ve got a crush on Leslie, so I’ll believe her”.
She always had it, and there was never any evidence she didn’t. SP Robin would have made similar choices if she had grown up in a similar situation as DoA Robin.
I get that it’s hard to think well of Robin when she’s wrecking people’s lives, but people of decent character do horrible things all the time. They don’t naturally see what doesn’t fit their world view, and when their mistakes are affirmed by everyone around them they’re just encouraged to do more and more harm.
*Not that there aren’t plenty of actually bad people who do the same horrible things*
Robin is interesting in the switch to a more realistic world, because she was just as prone to destructive impulse and dipping into ignorant bigotry (like when she dragged Leslie to an angry far-right protest to encourage the sign wavers to draw new mustaches on Obama other than Hitler (ah, the halcyon days when the right bothered to pretend they didn’t actually like Hitler)) in the other world.
Except now, her actions have longer and louder resonances and her incuriosity and impulsive nature makes her a dangerous legislator with a habit of saying the indefensible rather than a source of merriment.
Unlike Mike, it’s a fascinating sort of bad shift.
Yup, the giddy child-like approach to life feels so fun and innocent and appeals to the dreamer in us. But here Robin doesn’t have super speed to make everything right, only the same political skills she developed to get into Congress.
Even if Robin has a change of heart and turns her life around, she’ll have a long road ahead to making a net positive on the world on various issues she’s helped exacerbate. But I’m still happy to see her start to turn her life around anyway.
Leslie and Robin are such an interesting couple for me. Leslie has a pile of her own issues, and it’s a really unhealthy sort of approach that leads to her attraction to Robin. I would advise people to look at Leslie as an example of what *not* to do when looking for love. But in Leslie’s case it’s that one in a million case where it works – she really can change her partner for the better. She thinks things through more, is even-keeled, patient and understanding, all things Robin needs to be guided to do good things. Yet it’s Robin who has the drive, the incredible talent and the fearless attitude needed to do great things, and it’s Leslie that enables her to aim those qualities in the right direction. Robin recognizes that, and when she screws up she realizes it and is willing to take a lot of intentionally hurtful things from Leslie – Robin knows she did a lot of unintentionally hurtful things to Leslie, and that same drive when she senses something’s wrong eventually gets her back into Leslie’s good graces.
Which is why we’re getting all the “Heil Trump” and Trump swastika imagery.
There was a time, not that long ago, that the reaction to any major political figure getting open neo-Nazi support would have been devastating. At the very least, he’d have to passionately denounce them, not just tell them to cut it out when he gets nagged about it.
Dude, I would love to go back 4 years when the right was awful and made things unsurvivable for me and mine, but at least openly despised the neo-nazis as much as they did the existence of non-white people, but then, 2016 happened and now there are a million and one thinkpieces about how the neo-nazis are just the lovable scrappy new face of the right and major politicians in the party are tripping over themselves to court the “alt-right” as they’ve been euphemizing themselves as.
So yeah, would trade a lot to go back to the days where the neo-nazis were a fringe movement of ultra-right nationalists rather than what is seen as the base of what is our president-elect.
Not really. You couldn’t get elected in the USA if you had the open support of the extremely tiny minority of neo-stalinists. Neo-stalinism isn’t remotely mainstream, and there isn’t even a neo-maoism. Dude is mostly mentioned as the greatest mass murderer of the 20th century by White People. Which is funny, given that very few people were /murdered/ by communist china. …WEll, very few relative to how many chinese there are. The Kuomintang executed more people than the PRC, was in power for considerably less time, and had the full support of the West the whole time for it. Most of those dead to the PRC are dead to incompetence – this is little salve to those who starved to death, but matters when we want to talk evil.
Also, Holocaust denial is at an all-time high. It’s still in living memory. We’re nowhere near similar in terms of the holodomor and soviet evils, or denialism of chinese fuckuppery. The latter peaked in the 80s, and the former in the 60s, both generally for /ongoing/ disasters. IT’s really, really, /really/ not the same, especially now.
It’s nice to see how much Robin likes, trusts, and respects Leslie.
I do kinda wonder why she does, though, and I suspect she’d have a hard time coming up with a reason if asked. Introspection, here we come.
And the normalization of often brutal vigilante justice.
The assumption that special elites can and should determine the fate of the world without bothering with government or due process or the will of the people or any other such quaint notions.
I love superhero comics, but if you actually think about them, it’s all really problematic.
A shill is someone who pretends to be objective while actually promoting a specific idea or person, usually in the context of a political “pundit” who people believe to be a plant by a politician to drum up support for their campaign. Also nine times out of ten they’re not actually a shill.
Yeah, get her away from her handlers and she’s got no overwhelming loyalty to the party or the campaign… that said, I worry that nothing she says tonight will stick past when her handlers find her again.
I like seeing Leslie smile, but Robin confuses me. “If I hadta be anti-superhero” what does that mean? Also, Robin talks different here than she did in the classroom. It’s like she has two faces.
It’s almost like she is forced to present a certain face as a politician in order to appear docile and non-threatening to the men who dominate her field and especially the party she serves.
I was going to say, unfortunately she needs her to win, but… I don’t think that’s accurate.
Like, so far, Frieda’s only contributions have been to set up a rally in a location that was least likely to see her supporters and most likely to draw protestors, hire “questionable” individuals as interns, brag to their face about not paying them or really valuing them, and try some weird weak ass spin to hide her own fuckups and make them part of a campaign platform.
Really, Robin’s campaign could only be improved by jettisoning Frieda into the next nearest small body of water.
Frieda isn’t even a crucial part of her campaign – they JUST met yesterday and her job was ‘student outreach’. Surely SOMEONE would do better than her.
Honestly, if she’s incompetent, I’d rather she stayed around simply because Robin is still someone who screws over us queer folk for votes – quite a few things that hurt her effectiveness protects us.
God help us all if her political rivals get ahold of that information. “Marvel or DC? De Santo likes both. Do you want a leader so indecisive? Or do you want someone who will take a stand and choose a side. The right side. Desanto, bad on comics. Bad for America.”
Also, fun fact- in certain realities, Robin could probably do that, depending on whether faster than light speed is a thing and how much sugar she’s been eating.
And this is what’s deciding the moral judgement on Robin for me.
…. not that I’ve got any business making a moral judgement. I mean, what am I going to do different if I decide one way or another about her? Waste of time.
…. unlike… being in the comment section…
….
…. I’ll be right back once I’ve decided whether I’ve created a paradox or not.
Robin’s now striking me as very innocent in all this. Both in terms of how much wrong she’s done and in terms of naivete.
No, I’m not saying she hasn’t done bad stuff.
But I’m starting to see her as very easily-influenced and -manipulated. Her handlers control her. Party whip tells her to vote one way or another, and she does. They feed her a line, and she either buys it or just goes along because no one tells her different. They tell her to hit this talking point or denounce that opponent, and hey, making that analysis is their job.
Thinking things through isn’t really a Robin thing to do, and that makes it hard for her to recognize the consequences of her actions. I was previously seeing her as flumoxed that people objected to her hard-line social conservatism, because how could anyone object to Family Values or whatever? But now, looking back, it seems more like she just didn’t realize, on a gut level, that her advisors were leading her into wickedness.
So, reduced culpability. Maybe none, maybe not, I’m out on the whole “she’s an adult and should know better” thing.
More importantly, redemption arc. LOTS of potential for an easy redemption arc. Robin’s clearly got a decent moral compass in how rapidly she decides “rape’s bad even if one of my people do it”. … I mean, that should be a pretty low bar to clear, but… apparently not. The problem is just that she needs new advisors. And she’s clearly quite ready, and willing, to respond to Leslie’s influence.
So all that’s required for a redemption arc is to make it so that Robin is no longer the manipulated, naive, doesn’t-think-things-through tool of her handlers, and instead have her be the manipulated, naive, doesn’t-think-things-through tool of Leslie. And maybe Roz.
…. then after that, we can have a redemption arc for Leslie. And maybe Roz.
There’s the potentiality for a redemption arc, but it’s also an illustration of the banality of evil.
People actively working to make other people’s lives worse not out of active malice, but just being very susceptible to the dehumanizing lies put out about marginalized groups and the talking points that sound nicer than thinking or questioning your place in the world.
People valuing party and “winning against the other team” to the point where they are willing to line up with actual nazis and cheer the pain and death of real people so long as they can be seen as “the other team’s guys”. And it’s lead to a system where a big chunk of half the electorate is people defensively not trying to die and a big chunk of the other half feels like they are playing a dispassionate game and hoping to “score more points” than the other side and finding it easy to defend the indefensible if it means they get to feel like they’re “winning”.
People like Robin definitely exist. On the electorate level, they’re the ones who vote for a fascist to “show those smug liberals” and then are shocked when the fascist’s stated plans look to fuck them over too.
We’ve seen it in earlier appearances, gloating over the students about how the rest of the district views them as hellbound sluts. She’s never listened, not to anyone she respects, about what the real cost of her policies is. And if she starts to do so here, it’s not a guarantee that she’ll retain or internalize that message rather than turning her dispassionate support into a shield, arguing it doesn’t count because active malice didn’t police her actions.
Go Robin! Show her an error and she will course correct without hesitation. I only wish she didn’t have so many courses to correct as of now. One can hope that this will be a trend for her.
Also, on a personal note I went to the dentist to get my crowns put in today! The two look beautiful and blend well with my other teeth. Woot! And also ow.
Robin guns her past self down in an alleyway, just as she was taking lil Roz to see whatever Batman movie was playing in this shifting timeline. Past-Robin’s pearls break apart, she dies before past-Roz’s eyes…
Later Roz is reflecting on how to frighten conservative congresspeople (as they are a superstitious and cowardly lot) and a condom falls out of a drawer above her, onto her head, she’s super startled
Impulsive is not always bad! And Robin knows her stuff enough to take a strong pro-superhero stand. She does NOT want to become bald and fly around in a kryptonite suit.
Robin’s sloooowly winning me back over. I’m kinda glad her character’s slowly backing away from being a one-note drumpf expy since that shit ain’t quite gonna fly nowadays. Especially not with me since my mom’s been harassed for her accent twice already. I’d like to go back to enjoying this character again please and thanks
Some of it was probably manipulation, some of it was probably Robin not caring, but (and this is the important part) some of it is clearly Robin being a shithead. And some of it is a mix of two or all three.
To be fair, Robin changing on a dime like this is also a horrible thing. She’s essentially trusting a stranger because her staff is saying, “Be against vigilantes” which is probably the main cause behind her issues
I doubt it. There’s no way to blame the awful things she said in class earlier on her staff, so it already can’t all be on Frieda. Although to me it does feel like it’s been strongly hinted all along that Frieda was more awful than Robin.
In any case, Robin has had the power to fire and replace Frieda the whole time, so she just went along with whatever she she was told, and failed to scrutinize it, or else she knew just how awful Frieda was, and just never thought it was bad enough to be worth getting rid of her. That shifts much of the blame Frieda might’ve absorbed back onto Robin.
There’s a difference between being gaslit and abused into saying awful things and just finding it just convenient enough to say and do awful things because your moral compass isn’t strong enough to take even the slightest of risks to make an important stand.
Hell, it’s something that’s been infuriating me more and more at work. Yeah, my head of school is an evil fuck who disbelieves a rape victim and has stood by while he nearly got bullied into suicide and has still refused to budge from his cold cynical decision to value money and rapists over everyone.
But so many high level administrators have found it convenient to just fall in line behind him and become complicit in communicating that utter disregard to the survivor and the rest of the school because of reasons that feel so achingly small. “Not getting in trouble” being so strong they help hide the bodies and corrupt their own perspective into rape apologism to protect him.
And yeah, that type of banal evil becomes hard to stomach when I nearly was homeless before getting this job and I’m still speaking up.
Similarly for Robin, she could have spoken up at any time, can still change her staff at any time. But she won’t. Because her current power is worth more than all that.
And it’s going to be interesting to see how Robin responds to having her nose shoved in it a little bit. She’s passed the first test, but it’s going to be interesting how she responds to Leslie’s story.
I wouldn’t say she’s being manipulated. I get the impression that she’s in congress because she thought it would be fun and exciting, but she never thinks through the consequences of her actions. She loves the perks and recognition that come with being in congress. The legislation and speeches are trivial, ephemeral things she does in order to stay in congress. She isn’t being manipulated, she just doesn’t care about the legislation she’s voting on.
When Joyce asked her about a discriminatory bill she voted for, Robin didn’t have an answer. I suspect the reality was “Frieda told me voting for it would appeal to ‘family values’ Christian conservatives and I didn’t put any more thought into it than that because I was busy imagining my next helecopter joy ride.”
Robin’s responsible for her own actions. She’s an adult. But decent people do horrible things all the time for all sorts of reasons. Culture growing up, the people around you, how prone you are to not thinking inconvenient things through…it adds up. People like Becky are the exception, not the rule. We’ve already seen Joyce, Sarah, Danny, Hank and others do plenty of harm while not being bad people. Just because Robin is in Congress doesn’t make her any different.
Things aren’t going to get magically better. Robin isn’t superhuman in this verse, and people don’t just turn their lives around overnight. But she doesn’t deserve to be scoffed at just because her positive traits are currently being called to the fore.
…except when Joyce pointed out how that bill she supported could hurt homeless LGBT kids like Becky, and Robin blew it off and doubled down.
There’s good in her, but she’s not like Joyce, where there’s just a few layers of dirt that needed to be cleaned off of a heart of gold. Robin needs to become more good as well as less bad.
And she still hasn’t thought about it, or made any correction based on it.
I’m not saying she CAN’T change, or even that she’s unwilling to. It’s just clearly not as simple as someone pointing out the problem. If it was, Roz would have been able to get through to her before now.
Leslie is the first person we’ve seen get through to her, and this may not even be a case of her changing her behavior at all, since it’s unlikely Robin knew about Ryan at all, beyond him being an intern.
It’s certainly a good sign, but I still think Leslie’s got her work cut out for her
Let’s not go to far with this. That’s not what this is.
This is Robin like Leslie and is with Leslie now and wants to make her happy, so right now this is what she says and probably even thinks.
But it’s not a grand realization or a real change of heart or anything like that. She believes Leslie because of her crush. That’s all.
Panel 1: Yup. Sounds about right. Like, Robin remembers literally no one’s name and rarely views even her own family members as important enough to matter. No shit she’s not going to remember some random local intern at a midnight event.
But more importantly, I’m impressed Leslie put this above telling her own story. She knows that that part might be rough, might make it hard to tell anything else or focus. So she gets out this part, the promise to Dorothy. Does a small good deed before any other part of this goes to shit.
And it’s why Leslie, even when she’s being a bit of a fuckup, is a damn good person and teacher. Her students always come first. No matter what. Even when she temporarily forgets.
Panel 2: Huh, Robin remembering something. Will wonders never cease?
Panel 3: Robin’s eyes don’t believe this transparent lie anymore than her mouth does. Yeah, she backs off this quick, but honestly, I feel like she was at a point that any half-hearted justification to abandon it would do.
And the important part of that is that it is proof that Robin does have a conscience and moral lines within her, but that she’ll bundle right over them for a second of power unless she has that excuse to cling to.
Re: Panel one, while Robin probably wouldn’t know many, if any, people’s names, I think this answer also speaks to how much coaching she has. ‘I know this one’ sounds like a kid at a pop quiz. She knows that whenever people come to her about her staff, it’s probably bad, so deny any and all knowledge and personal connection to throw them under the bus.
Also – slightly off topic – I just heard your Carla podcast today and I teared up at the end of it from your talk about how you drew strength from Carla. I’ve had characters like that too and I’m glad she was able to inspire you so much. You are wonderful and deserve a wonderful character like Carla to be your representation.
Ah thanks. Yeah, Carla hits deeply home for me and it was great to kinda gush about that and how important having that kind of representation is for me.
I completely understand. Representation is important, and the higher quality and more specific to your circumstances/wants/needs is important.
Put it this way – If there’d been more female characters like Malaya or Sal on tv when I was a kid, I’d have struggled with my relationship to felinity far faaaar less.
I suspect that the coaching there is less “throw them under the bus” and more “I did not have sex with that woman”. I mean, when was the last time you heard about a political intern in the news and it wasn’t a sexual harassment incident?
Oh, really? Well, that’s interesting. I’ve got a feeling that panel 7 is the hook for a bit of Robin back-story that I’d really, really be interested to know.
On another subject, I wonder how many politicians simply say and do whatever their campaign managers or chiefs of staff tell them is politically advantageous for them to do, no matter what they actually think on the matter? Government by polling, whilst beguiling, doesn’t always lead to good policy.
When she was eight, there was this alien going around abducting people and giving them superpowers, and she tried to get abducted, but missed the UFO, so she had to satisfy her power-hunger by becoming a Congresswoman instead.
Panel 4: This panel… this panel made me cry a bit.
Cause… it’s been leaking out a lot the shit I am fighting at my school, where one of my trans kids was raped on campus by his ex boyfriend and the school’s response has been just as bad as it could have been, keeping him on, communicating to the survivor that they believe he is a liar despite his assault being caught on camera, bullying the survivor to keep him and his family from suing, hamstringing his support network from pushing back against the rapist’s friends bullying and harassing him, and being pushed to a very nearly successful suicide attempt (that was only halted by a resource I gave him, which doesn’t make me feel good so much as terrified at how close it got).
And which is still bullying him and ignoring him and treating him like garbage because they can’t even begin to pretend to care about trans kids or rape and it’s more convenient to their jobs to wish it all away and pretend it never happen and just demand everyone just “move on”.
It’s been a hard and Sisyphean slog that just feels like one more futile fight against a social attitude ten times stronger than any survivor.
So to read a work in which an authority figure is told, hey, your man sexually assaulted someone and just believe it, just treat it like the real fucking thing it is instead of finding any excuse to side with the abuser and be shitty to survivors. To not just turn the other way and at most say “gosh that’s sad, but what can you do”?
But to actually say, yeah, then he should be locked up, let me take this seriously instead of just blowing it off and going “well, he’s not an employee of mine anymore and it’s not like I was paying him, so so what”.
That’s… intense. Like, it feels good. But it also feels so so bad, because the real world is never ever like that. But then the aspirational aspect to things like this, where they are responded to like they ought to be rather than how they are is also what keeps me coming back. So yeah, I think this moment is more happy than sad. But it’s definitely more bittersweet than I’d like (hey, just like Leslie’s feeling in this moment).
And sorry everyone for letting so much of this leak out of me of late, but this whole thing is infuriating and it keeps getting more infuriating. And the fact that I’ve had this battle so many times at this point mentoring trans and ace kids before this job, just makes it all so much fucking worse, because it’s a constant reminder of how these entrenched attitudes regarding sexual assault are so depressingly universal.
I am so, so proud of you for everything you do. Thank you a million times over for the difference you make to these kids. Hugs if wanted, hot chocolate and warm snuggly blankets if preferred?
Don’t apologize. This situation is nothing short of hellish and you deserve to vent about it. I’m sorry things are going badly, and I hope they improve. And I am echoing Shiro – thank you for being such a wonderful teacher and taking care of those kids.
Cerberus, it’s clear to us that you’re an important part of this kid’s support network, and that that makes what’s happening to him very hard on you. Let US be a part of YOUR support network. You need it as much as she does.
Speaking of superheroes… I think what you’ve done is very heroic and not many people can say they have had that kind of tremendous influence helping others, not to mention the influence you’ve had on the queer community specifically…
Honestly, I don’t tear up at much, but… yeah. I wish you, and those you’ve taken under your wing, the best of luck.
Hey, if venting here keeps you sane and prevents you from snapping and doing something stupid, thus depriving your kids of their champion, by all means, keep doing so. I am in awe of your patience. I would have lost my mind on the administration by now if I was in a similar situation.
Panel 5: Yeah, I feel you Leslie. I fucking feel you there.
Panel 6: That soft quiet smile. Robin is showing an actual moral boundary and that’s extending hope. It’s just a shame that Leslie might end up in a relationship so guaranteed to crash and burn and where she’s going to be in the shitty position of trying to save a person, because of that invitation to hope.
Also, mmhmm, yes, like her for reasons I’m sure you couldn’t possibly begin to put a word to, but she just seems to light up a room and make it so you can remember faces and names and what a person said. Goddamn, Robin, do you have to make your closeted flirtation so frickin’ adorable?!?
Also, I can’t help but notice that stabilizing hand that hasn’t left that guarded position since they sat down for beer. Even as Leslie’s warming up, she’s still guarded. She’s still in pain. She’s still hating herself for giving Robin this opening. And I don’t fully blame her for being guarded. Robin isn’t trustworthy, small token or not. And I just don’t want her to take a risk at vulnerability only to be fucked over for it.
Panel 7: And finally we see a political position she actually cares about, one she doesn’t just view as a game of ‘win the electorate’. Something she’s willing to fight for. And who knows, maybe there’s a tiny piece of the Robin that wanted to be a congresswoman in the first place. A sign of a redeemable aspect of her, admittedly buried under a shit-ton of well… shit.
I think that, after a long time amongst the artificial smiles and back-stabbing of DC, Robin is enjoying being around someone whose views are sincere and based on personal experience rather than what the polls say may or may not be popular. Does the phrase ‘breath of fresh air’ ring any bells.
Quite frankly, what Robin needs right now is a friend, not a lover. She needs someone who can help her rediscover her true self and her own honest position rather than just being a part of the echo-chamber for those who shout the loudest and thus tend to control public debate.
… From a social POV: I’ve dealt with Robin’s before. Generally speaking, no matter how phoney, there is some shred of real person there, and if you connect with their real self, you can get through to them. It seems here like Leslie is able – briefly – to connect with Robin’s real self, so maybe something good will come of this exchange?
Or maybe Robin will take a baseball bat to her conscience again. Cuz when dealing with a Robin, even if you connect and get through – there’s always a chance they’ll murder their conscience for power.
Volunteering for very political entities in meatspace has made me both a lot more cynical and a lot more calculating in my social space. Onnn the other hand, it’s also made me a lot more effective. I’m not really sure whether it’s a good thing overall – but the play of the political dance which Leslie is in right now is something I’m increasingly familiar with, and it’s all in understanding what genuinely matters to your opponent, and making them feel, emotionally, that supporting you aligns with what genuinely matters on an emotional level to them.
… this is why the sort of people who loudly proclaim their reasonableness and objectivity are often the easiest to manipulate: Nobody is objective or reasonable. Everyone makes their decisions emotionally. Literally everyone – it’s how the human brain works. We decide emotionally and then justify intellectually. Arguing intellect against someone’s emotion is bound to fail (especially since what usually ends up happening instead is your emotion is arguing against their emotion). In fact, very few people are convinced by argument at all.
What convinces people is emotional connection with your point of view. Consider Joyce: What convinced her that homosexuality isn’t wrong? Was it Amber or Roz yelling at her? No. It was realizing she cared for her friends and didn’t think they were bad people. Emotionally realizing that she couldn’t think ill of the people she loved is what convinced Joyce, not reason. She justified with reason afterwards – but the emotion was the driving force.
What makes people who are very convinced of their own reason and objective perspective easy to manipulate is that they are not aware of the fact that they can be manipulated, so they don’t look out for it. Being so very convinced that they’re above such petty concerns as emotion and immune to emotion plays is precisely what makes them vulnerable to it. If you’re aware of your emotions, and of the fact that people make decisions emotionally, and you’re aware of common manipulation tactics, you can be aware of people when they try to manipulate you. The narrative story is a common example of a manipulation technique – of the form, “One time I [encountered a situation] where I was [faced with a challenge]. I had to [make a choice]. I chose [decision]. That led to [consequence], which is why I believe [belief].” – the idea being that you get someone to connect emotionally to your story, which makes them more likely to align with the point of it. Think of how Leslie was talking about how she ended up on the street to try to convince her students that homelessness is a serious issue among LGBT youth. The technique itself is morally neutral and can be used for good or ill – but it is very effective). Another common example is the use of loaded language to try to manipulate someone into making an unfavorable admission – often paired with making a straw man of their argument. An example is with the trans bathroom argument: “Are you saying we should let a 40 year old body builder rapist ex-con in a women’s bathroom if he says he feels like a woman that day?!” The idea is to force you either into saying yes, where they can then try to paint you as wanting children raped, or into saying no, where they can then paint you as being disingenuous or secretly really agreeing with them all along. The way around that trick is to refuse to give a binary answer, and also point out that they’re manipulating the conversation. “I don’t think that’s a very fair characterization of my point of view. What I’m saying is [restatement of position].”
But, thing is – someone who’s not aware of those rhetorical tricks and manipulation tactics will blunder into them headlong and help the other side win over support by looking like they don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. And people who are very convinced of their own rationality will be convinced by it without realizing they were played.
In recent years, the Left has been bad at getting people to connect emotionally with their positions (for good or ill, a lot of lefties – me included – get a bad taste in our mouths about intentionally manipulating others), and the Right has been very good at it (Donald Trump has basically given a seminar on how you manipulate huge numbers of people into thinking you’re right when you’re factually, objectively wrong. How? He knows how to manipulate. Clinton doesn’t.). The Right by contrast seems to have no such compunction about using manipulation to its ends. In fact, it’s used manipulation and branding to huge effect: its biggest wins in recent years has been the rebranding of neo-Nazis as alt-right and the positioning of xenophobia as a neutral and objective position.
What we’re seeing here is the real Robin, when she turns her manipulation and facade off. Otherwise, she’s in full manipulation mode – and her goal is usually not to convince others of her views, but rather to be a mirror to those she’s speaking to, and make them think she supports what they think. Like Trump – she doesn’t care so much about integrity as she does about convincing people she’s got their backs (even when she obviously doesn’t).
Real Robin peeked through for a second – but I’m pretty sure Politician Robin will be back as soon as she figures out that she might be able to win Leslie’s support by giving a token gesture now.
Oh cool, Robin actally is gonna do something about the intern! That’s great, we get to see — oh, her stated reasons boil down to “I like you, barely-known stranger, more than the person I hire to work for me” and “SUPERHEROES ARE COOL AND THAT PERSON SAID THEY WERE NOT COOL”.
This is like Telephone. Too many degrees of separation. Joyce told Dorothy who told Leslie who told Robin. It’s a good thing nothing seems to have been lost in translation.
So…Robin’s a puppet and basically just does whatever people tell her is a good idea? She was spouting nonsense in Leslie’s classroom because still just as dumb as ever. Good to know some things never change.
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OH SNAP
knowing Robin, I bet she could do it, too
‘course she’d have to shoot herself with a Nerf gun to avoid pulling a Looper
“Some crazy lady just appeared out of nowhere and shot at me with Nerf! Ill show her! I’ll show all of them! Nobody will dare be mean to me if I become a congresswoman!”
Oh, for crissake! She’s just saying she wanted to be a superhero when she was 8, and that it’s a dream she wouldn’t give up for anything!
But she couldn’t, with her lack of a Batman-esque background story catalyst!
Now, having been shot by a crazed old woman with a nerf-gun, she will have found her calling!
..wait, no, think that’s the one that leads to her becoming a zany supervillain who tries to take revenge upon the world with a giant multi-shot nerf cannon.
Okay, we’re gonna need more
Well, that didn’t work. Anyone wanna remind me which tag I can use for hovertext?
Anyway, here’s the link in reference: http://www.shortpacked.com/2006/comic/book-3-is-totally-gay/01-cadbury-cereal/cadbury/
Oh, there’s a link tag?
a href, end with /a
I’ve been summoned! Normally, I use the <abbr> tag, with the ‘title’ attribute.
Man, it’s been awhile.
Test
Thanks! ^.^
It’s hard days and harder nights patrolling these time streets. A dame walks into my office, with eyes from the future and a face from yesterday. She knows me, familiarly but I haven’t met her yet. She wants me to do one last job for her, for the first time. The names. Ana. I run this time detective agency, but the work runs me. And this time machine.
I would read that book.
Me too. Good luck keeping the narrative threads straight though. There’s a reason time travel makes a mess of plots.
Tell me about it, try Melonpool for example, even the author couldn’t keep the timelines straight.
I really really deteststime travel plots/books/whatever, but that one broke my brain and I love it!
shit, you reminded me that Dirk Gently’s out
wait, a new Dirk Gently thing?
Well, it’s different from the book so I guess it’s new.
late getting back but http://www.bbcamerica.com/shows/dirk-gentlys-holistic-detective-agency
Roz seems to have a very troubling grasp of causality
???
Assuming that Roz’s ‘older sister’ Robin is in fact her future self makes the whole time travel thing even more confusing.
The DeSanto family isn’t excessively numerous after all, they’re all just future versions of Riley. (Yes, even the DeSantos who will only exist when the narrative needs them.)
would that be murder or suicide technically since you are killing another person but it is a version of you.
Depends on which model you’re employing.
For branching futures (multiple universe), it’s murder, since the person you’re killing is less you and more of a time-clone of you.
Most flavors of Copenhagen, it’s suicide, albeit suicide doomed to fail. But if you destroy the universe with a time paradox, it’s also omnicide.
And if you’re employing the legal model, it’s murder, because no fucking way a jury’s going to buy that your victim is actually you.
This is clearly suicide, by all models, even the legal one.
Why? Because suicide is only illegal to attempt. If you succeed, the time paradox would destroy the legal system along with everything else. No legal system, no crime.
Okay, maybe not in the branching futures universe, but that one’s a cop-out. Branching futures mean there’s no consequences for anything you do – just hop to a new alternate, and you’re clear.
Yes, but that alternate universe will probably have its own set of problems
And if you spawned that universe by killing someone, then there’s a chance that universe’s police are looking for that killer.
And if you’re in a universe where you DIDN’T kill someone… well, whatever motive you had for killing them goes unrealized. But yes, having a massive undo button like that is a cop out… but how does there being a cop out change any of the facts?
… well to the extent that having a time travel discussion counts as facts.
I’ll just call ‘wibbly wobbly timey wimey’ and it’s all good
I think it depends on if/how the paradox is resolved.
If your adult self simply blips out of existence, it’s suicide. If your baby self dies, but your adult self somehow sticks around, now orphaned from the timeline you originated from, then it’s murder.
If it turns out the universe is totally cool with a causal paradox, then it’s both, but also neither.
Though I suppose technically, it’s just auto-infanticide.
If you kill your young self and spawn a timeline where you died, but back in your time you didn’t, obviously…
… Welp, this is why most time traveling movies get so confusing.
We need a new ontological category.
Okay.
I hereby declare us in a state of Categorically Ontological Metanecessity, which is the required new ontological state of requiring a new ontological state.
So I can count on your support for proposition 532: “Outlaw time travel paradoxes” then?
Only if you can make it post-hoc.
*ex-post-facto, I mean.
ergo propter-hoc?
I think it’s more of an Ontological Commonwealth.
Why? I have heard about a canonical (!) relic of the head of John the Baptist as 5 year old, from some time in the Middle Ages. Wikipedia and a quick google at least confirm that there are several specimen of this relic around.
A time-traveling John could explain this! And also the distinction between John the Baptist, John the Apostle, and John the Revelator! The theological ramifications are as radical as they are blasphemous! I love it!
Apropos of nothing, I got the new issue of Gwenpool today, and Squirrel Girl appears in it and is clearly being played by Becky.
So apparently Galasso hired her to infiltrate the Avengers. Smart man.
THAT BOOK WAS SO FREAKIN GOOD
except maybe the red skull part
Yeah, that part was weird.
I loved the stuff with Santa Galactus.
Any other book title with ‘Santa Galaticus’ in it would make me blink twice.
I love Squirrel Girl, just got the fourth book, but haven’t read it yet. Ryan North is my hero, I would marry him if I wasn’t already married, a male, and straight. Just got into Gwenpool, bought the first book, but again, haven’t read it yet.
… Y’know, it’s moments like this that remind me why I love the shit out of Robin.
Right? No matter how bad she screws up, she always turns it around in the end! ^_^
plus alternate universe you
Uh-oh– is Robin about to enact her own version of Flashpoint?
….I would actually love to see that.
That’s what DoA is. Robin goes back in time, alters reality – suddenly, aliens don’t exist, and everyone’s in college. IT’S THE ONLY EXPLANATION!
This seems like the wrong Willisverse for that to happen in.
Last-panel backstory drop like woah.
And I totally misunderstood the last panel, so never mind.
*follows up “Happy Hour” with “Gimme Back My Bullets”…*
So, who was Robin’s childhood superhero of choice?
“The Flash” seems like a facile answer.
She ran for congress at 25, and is running for reelection right now, so she’s presumably around 27. That means she would have been 8 around 1997.
Since the main event in Superhero films at that time was Batman & Robin (and you can bet she heard every terrible Robin joke imaginable from her peers), I’m gonna assume she liked superheroes from cartoons and comic books.
I can think of two characters who would suit her; Freakazoid and Impulse. Both have her lack of maturity, her sense of humor, and super speed.
I am also choosing to believe she stuck around with Impulse long enough to become a fan of the sublime Young Justice book.
According to Mary, she’s now 30 (or close enough to it that Roz doesn’t correct her), so this isn’t her first re-election. So closer to 1994, which is still perfect timing for a bunch of fun superheroes.
What about DoA’s floating timeline? If Robin was also 29 at the beginning of the comic (DoA-September, real world 2010) she would have been born in 1981.
Floating timeline only means her birthdate goes up one year every time RL does. So, this year, she’d be 8 in 1994. Next year, she will have been 8 in 1995, and so on and so forth. What year it would have been in 2010 is neat, but not very relevant to discussing it in 2016. Also, assuming Mary is correct and she’s 30 (or maybe 29 or 31) she’d have been so in 1979-1981.
There’s the goodness she’s been missing in this ‘verse.
Well, it’s more of a demonstration of basic human decency (Attempted Sexual Assault Is Bad isn’t exactly a controversial stance, mind), but yeah.
Not that, so much as the recognizing that Frieda and the interns aren’t very good people, and Leslie is.
“Attempted Sexual Assault Is Bad isn’t exactly a controversial stance, mind”
boy, what amazing fantasy land have you been living in and how do i get there??
Seriously.
I’ve been fighting for over a month to get my school to take that stance and they’ve been fighting every step of the way even though we got the incident on camera.
I’d fucking murder people to get to a world where “sexual assault is bad” was an actual noncontroversial stance rather than something people paid lip service too while taking any justification no matter how flimsy to savage the victim (what, did the victim get PTSD from the event that gives them bad flashbacks and other symptoms, why don’t we use that to discredit them as a liar because their emotional response is all fucked up).
I think that it’s more a matter of what’s easier to deal with in a political level than the recognition of something being right or wrong. So the authorities know it’s wrong, but it’s easier to pretend it’s not as wrong as it is. Or at all.
Which is still a load of horseshit, mind you.
I think most people agree on attempted sexual assault being bad, but they don’t agree on what qualifies as attempted sexual assault. (I’m totally siding with you, it’s just a nuance I wanted to add)
But an accomplished sexual assault (“Grab ’em by the pussy”) will get you elected President.
Attempted sexual assault is bad in the sense that you shouldn’t do it, not too controversial.
Even actual sexual assault is bad in the sense that the perpetrators belong in a cell, very controversial. Look at any cases and see how often you hear people anxious to excuse “good boys making one mistake”, and to fault “girls who should know better than to get in such situations”, when their story is believed at all.
And honestly, sexual assault is bad in the sense of something worse than wearing a low neckline or being gay, even that is controversial. To some, all are examples of failures to be proper, and there’s no reason to single out the harmful and violent one as the worst.
It seems like this should be basic human decency. Causes like feminism have been working at making it so. But not with all the humans we have right now.
I’d say it’s generally accepted that sexual assault is bad, which is why people go to great lengths to find excuses why particular instances aren’t “really” sexual assault.
Few say “Yay, Rape!” Many say “Rape is horrible, but this specific case isn’t rape because …”
OTOH, Robin’s motives here aren’t the best. Not even a general “believe women when they say they’ve been assaulted”, but just “I’ve got a crush on Leslie, so I’ll believe her”.
Do we even know she has a crush on Leslie?
I don’t think she knows she has a crush on Leslie. After all she’s straight, how could she have a crush on a woman.
It’s at least very strongly hinted at. Mostly these last couple strips.
She said she ‘likes’ Leslie more than her colleagues. Such an overloaded word.
We don’t, but we do know that Willis said that the characters sexualities carry over from the walkyverse so there is a chance she could
She always had it, and there was never any evidence she didn’t. SP Robin would have made similar choices if she had grown up in a similar situation as DoA Robin.
I get that it’s hard to think well of Robin when she’s wrecking people’s lives, but people of decent character do horrible things all the time. They don’t naturally see what doesn’t fit their world view, and when their mistakes are affirmed by everyone around them they’re just encouraged to do more and more harm.
*Not that there aren’t plenty of actually bad people who do the same horrible things*
Robin is interesting in the switch to a more realistic world, because she was just as prone to destructive impulse and dipping into ignorant bigotry (like when she dragged Leslie to an angry far-right protest to encourage the sign wavers to draw new mustaches on Obama other than Hitler (ah, the halcyon days when the right bothered to pretend they didn’t actually like Hitler)) in the other world.
Except now, her actions have longer and louder resonances and her incuriosity and impulsive nature makes her a dangerous legislator with a habit of saying the indefensible rather than a source of merriment.
Unlike Mike, it’s a fascinating sort of bad shift.
Yup, the giddy child-like approach to life feels so fun and innocent and appeals to the dreamer in us. But here Robin doesn’t have super speed to make everything right, only the same political skills she developed to get into Congress.
Even if Robin has a change of heart and turns her life around, she’ll have a long road ahead to making a net positive on the world on various issues she’s helped exacerbate. But I’m still happy to see her start to turn her life around anyway.
Leslie and Robin are such an interesting couple for me. Leslie has a pile of her own issues, and it’s a really unhealthy sort of approach that leads to her attraction to Robin. I would advise people to look at Leslie as an example of what *not* to do when looking for love. But in Leslie’s case it’s that one in a million case where it works – she really can change her partner for the better. She thinks things through more, is even-keeled, patient and understanding, all things Robin needs to be guided to do good things. Yet it’s Robin who has the drive, the incredible talent and the fearless attitude needed to do great things, and it’s Leslie that enables her to aim those qualities in the right direction. Robin recognizes that, and when she screws up she realizes it and is willing to take a lot of intentionally hurtful things from Leslie – Robin knows she did a lot of unintentionally hurtful things to Leslie, and that same drive when she senses something’s wrong eventually gets her back into Leslie’s good graces.
“The right likes Hitler” is about the same as “the left likes Mao and Stalin”.
Which is why we’re getting all the “Heil Trump” and Trump swastika imagery.
There was a time, not that long ago, that the reaction to any major political figure getting open neo-Nazi support would have been devastating. At the very least, he’d have to passionately denounce them, not just tell them to cut it out when he gets nagged about it.
Dude, I would love to go back 4 years when the right was awful and made things unsurvivable for me and mine, but at least openly despised the neo-nazis as much as they did the existence of non-white people, but then, 2016 happened and now there are a million and one thinkpieces about how the neo-nazis are just the lovable scrappy new face of the right and major politicians in the party are tripping over themselves to court the “alt-right” as they’ve been euphemizing themselves as.
So yeah, would trade a lot to go back to the days where the neo-nazis were a fringe movement of ultra-right nationalists rather than what is seen as the base of what is our president-elect.
Not really. You couldn’t get elected in the USA if you had the open support of the extremely tiny minority of neo-stalinists. Neo-stalinism isn’t remotely mainstream, and there isn’t even a neo-maoism. Dude is mostly mentioned as the greatest mass murderer of the 20th century by White People. Which is funny, given that very few people were /murdered/ by communist china. …WEll, very few relative to how many chinese there are. The Kuomintang executed more people than the PRC, was in power for considerably less time, and had the full support of the West the whole time for it. Most of those dead to the PRC are dead to incompetence – this is little salve to those who starved to death, but matters when we want to talk evil.
Also, Holocaust denial is at an all-time high. It’s still in living memory. We’re nowhere near similar in terms of the holodomor and soviet evils, or denialism of chinese fuckuppery. The latter peaked in the 80s, and the former in the 60s, both generally for /ongoing/ disasters. IT’s really, really, /really/ not the same, especially now.
Yeah, I have no idea where that idea could come from…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac0BxACky5w
No idea at all…
Really, it’s a complete and utter mystery!
It’s nice to see how much Robin likes, trusts, and respects Leslie.
I do kinda wonder why she does, though, and I suspect she’d have a hard time coming up with a reason if asked. Introspection, here we come.
I’m pretty sure it’s because Leslie is smart and pretty.
Well, it’s clearly not because of repressed undefinably queer feelings, that’d just be silly.
So Robin’s ethical line is disavowing super heroes.
I mean… yeah.
That might be my line too.
Of course all the horrible anti-gay LGBT stuff would be AFTER that line instead of before it but…
Come on man, you can’t hate on superheroes.
They’re basically all about underlying hope for the betterment of humanity and stuff.
Also terribly sexist costumes sometimes… Those aren’t part of the line.
And the normalization of often brutal vigilante justice.
The assumption that special elites can and should determine the fate of the world without bothering with government or due process or the will of the people or any other such quaint notions.
I love superhero comics, but if you actually think about them, it’s all really problematic.
Well that was a really sweet and completely dark note to end on.
Oh hey, it’s a bit of Old Robin. I missed that one.
“Yknow, I used to imagine I was a superhero. Super Speed. Had a costume and a team an’ everything…”
“There was also this sentient cheese at one point. It was weird”
Is… is Robin from Pittsburgh?
Jag off is in the dictionary now! It’s everyone’s!
But jag is a pretty good indication. If she drops a yinz, though, or a dahntahn, we’ll know for sure.
huh, so Robin is not a COMPLETE shill unlike Frieda apparently
I know what you mean, but you’re misusing the word shill.
oh? what does shill mean? which word am I thinking of then? English confuses me
A shill is someone who pretends to be objective while actually promoting a specific idea or person, usually in the context of a political “pundit” who people believe to be a plant by a politician to drum up support for their campaign. Also nine times out of ten they’re not actually a shill.
Yeah, get her away from her handlers and she’s got no overwhelming loyalty to the party or the campaign… that said, I worry that nothing she says tonight will stick past when her handlers find her again.
YAY!!
Oh, so we have authority backing actual justice. Give me 10 panels (not strips) in this story before it all derails and becomes tragic.
I like seeing Leslie smile, but Robin confuses me. “If I hadta be anti-superhero” what does that mean? Also, Robin talks different here than she did in the classroom. It’s like she has two faces.
She thinks superheros are cool!
Stepping up her anti-vigilante rhetoric, as per Frieda’s suggestion, would have been clearly anti-superhero.
She means that she doesn’t want to be opposed to Amazi-girl. And a politician who says one thing in public and another in private? Impossible!
It’s almost like she is forced to present a certain face as a politician in order to appear docile and non-threatening to the men who dominate her field and especially the party she serves.
Nonsense, it’s not like that party demonstrated a violent overarching hatred for women in a recent election or anything.
Only two faces? She went through 4 or 5 in class.
I think this one is more authentic, but it’s hard to be sure.
Robin, I hope you also come to realize you should fire Frieda.
I mean, she doesn’t even have naturally curly hair!
I was going to say, unfortunately she needs her to win, but… I don’t think that’s accurate.
Like, so far, Frieda’s only contributions have been to set up a rally in a location that was least likely to see her supporters and most likely to draw protestors, hire “questionable” individuals as interns, brag to their face about not paying them or really valuing them, and try some weird weak ass spin to hide her own fuckups and make them part of a campaign platform.
Really, Robin’s campaign could only be improved by jettisoning Frieda into the next nearest small body of water.
Frieda isn’t even a crucial part of her campaign – they JUST met yesterday and her job was ‘student outreach’. Surely SOMEONE would do better than her.
Honestly, if she’s incompetent, I’d rather she stayed around simply because Robin is still someone who screws over us queer folk for votes – quite a few things that hurt her effectiveness protects us.
That’s just it, though. Frieda isn’t bad at her job, she’s just a terrible person.
Just because Frieda isn’t crucial doesn’t mean she’s incompetent. It just makes her replaceable.
God help us all if her political rivals get ahold of that information. “Marvel or DC? De Santo likes both. Do you want a leader so indecisive? Or do you want someone who will take a stand and choose a side. The right side. Desanto, bad on comics. Bad for America.”
Also, fun fact- in certain realities, Robin could probably do that, depending on whether faster than light speed is a thing and how much sugar she’s been eating.
And this is what’s deciding the moral judgement on Robin for me.
…. not that I’ve got any business making a moral judgement. I mean, what am I going to do different if I decide one way or another about her? Waste of time.
…. unlike… being in the comment section…
….
…. I’ll be right back once I’ve decided whether I’ve created a paradox or not.
Nah, if you think that’s a paradox then you clearly don’t think that’s a paradox.
…. OKAY! Back on topic. Moral judgement on Robin.
Robin’s now striking me as very innocent in all this. Both in terms of how much wrong she’s done and in terms of naivete.
No, I’m not saying she hasn’t done bad stuff.
But I’m starting to see her as very easily-influenced and -manipulated. Her handlers control her. Party whip tells her to vote one way or another, and she does. They feed her a line, and she either buys it or just goes along because no one tells her different. They tell her to hit this talking point or denounce that opponent, and hey, making that analysis is their job.
Thinking things through isn’t really a Robin thing to do, and that makes it hard for her to recognize the consequences of her actions. I was previously seeing her as flumoxed that people objected to her hard-line social conservatism, because how could anyone object to Family Values or whatever? But now, looking back, it seems more like she just didn’t realize, on a gut level, that her advisors were leading her into wickedness.
So, reduced culpability. Maybe none, maybe not, I’m out on the whole “she’s an adult and should know better” thing.
More importantly, redemption arc. LOTS of potential for an easy redemption arc. Robin’s clearly got a decent moral compass in how rapidly she decides “rape’s bad even if one of my people do it”. … I mean, that should be a pretty low bar to clear, but… apparently not. The problem is just that she needs new advisors. And she’s clearly quite ready, and willing, to respond to Leslie’s influence.
So all that’s required for a redemption arc is to make it so that Robin is no longer the manipulated, naive, doesn’t-think-things-through tool of her handlers, and instead have her be the manipulated, naive, doesn’t-think-things-through tool of Leslie. And maybe Roz.
…. then after that, we can have a redemption arc for Leslie. And maybe Roz.
There’s the potentiality for a redemption arc, but it’s also an illustration of the banality of evil.
People actively working to make other people’s lives worse not out of active malice, but just being very susceptible to the dehumanizing lies put out about marginalized groups and the talking points that sound nicer than thinking or questioning your place in the world.
People valuing party and “winning against the other team” to the point where they are willing to line up with actual nazis and cheer the pain and death of real people so long as they can be seen as “the other team’s guys”. And it’s lead to a system where a big chunk of half the electorate is people defensively not trying to die and a big chunk of the other half feels like they are playing a dispassionate game and hoping to “score more points” than the other side and finding it easy to defend the indefensible if it means they get to feel like they’re “winning”.
People like Robin definitely exist. On the electorate level, they’re the ones who vote for a fascist to “show those smug liberals” and then are shocked when the fascist’s stated plans look to fuck them over too.
We’ve seen it in earlier appearances, gloating over the students about how the rest of the district views them as hellbound sluts. She’s never listened, not to anyone she respects, about what the real cost of her policies is. And if she starts to do so here, it’s not a guarantee that she’ll retain or internalize that message rather than turning her dispassionate support into a shield, arguing it doesn’t count because active malice didn’t police her actions.
I think Robin is still eight-year-old Robin.
…which makes her statement all the more tragic.
And also Leslie’s crush on her a bit squick.
This is the Robin I want to see more of in the future.
Slightly-buzzed Robin?
It is also the Robin that Leslie wants to see more of….
Go Robin! Show her an error and she will course correct without hesitation. I only wish she didn’t have so many courses to correct as of now. One can hope that this will be a trend for her.
Also, on a personal note I went to the dentist to get my crowns put in today! The two look beautiful and blend well with my other teeth. Woot! And also ow.
Robin guns her past self down in an alleyway, just as she was taking lil Roz to see whatever Batman movie was playing in this shifting timeline. Past-Robin’s pearls break apart, she dies before past-Roz’s eyes…
Later Roz is reflecting on how to frighten conservative congresspeople (as they are a superstitious and cowardly lot) and a condom falls out of a drawer above her, onto her head, she’s super startled
Impulsive is not always bad! And Robin knows her stuff enough to take a strong pro-superhero stand. She does NOT want to become bald and fly around in a kryptonite suit.
But if you’re bald and fly around in a kryptonite suit, you get to be President for a minute. Silver lining!
Robin’s sloooowly winning me back over. I’m kinda glad her character’s slowly backing away from being a one-note drumpf expy since that shit ain’t quite gonna fly nowadays. Especially not with me since my mom’s been harassed for her accent twice already. I’d like to go back to enjoying this character again please and thanks
Finally. Now that Robin will be getting the names and giving them to people so Ryan can go down I can think about this budding relationship.
…..’s weird? Weird spot for the two of them to be in. Awkward and new and I don’t really know what to feel about it.
I like this page.
Its nice seeing Leslie realize she is believed and valued. That her intuition about robin was Justified after all. Her guilty hero worship payed off.
This is a success she wasnt expecting.
Are we really going to do this “all her crappy stuff is due to being manipulated by her staff” thing?
Seriously.
Some of it was probably manipulation, some of it was probably Robin not caring, but (and this is the important part) some of it is clearly Robin being a shithead. And some of it is a mix of two or all three.
Robin is human – she can be a shithead.
To be fair, Robin changing on a dime like this is also a horrible thing. She’s essentially trusting a stranger because her staff is saying, “Be against vigilantes” which is probably the main cause behind her issues
I doubt it. There’s no way to blame the awful things she said in class earlier on her staff, so it already can’t all be on Frieda. Although to me it does feel like it’s been strongly hinted all along that Frieda was more awful than Robin.
In any case, Robin has had the power to fire and replace Frieda the whole time, so she just went along with whatever she she was told, and failed to scrutinize it, or else she knew just how awful Frieda was, and just never thought it was bad enough to be worth getting rid of her. That shifts much of the blame Frieda might’ve absorbed back onto Robin.
Pretty much.
There’s a difference between being gaslit and abused into saying awful things and just finding it just convenient enough to say and do awful things because your moral compass isn’t strong enough to take even the slightest of risks to make an important stand.
Hell, it’s something that’s been infuriating me more and more at work. Yeah, my head of school is an evil fuck who disbelieves a rape victim and has stood by while he nearly got bullied into suicide and has still refused to budge from his cold cynical decision to value money and rapists over everyone.
But so many high level administrators have found it convenient to just fall in line behind him and become complicit in communicating that utter disregard to the survivor and the rest of the school because of reasons that feel so achingly small. “Not getting in trouble” being so strong they help hide the bodies and corrupt their own perspective into rape apologism to protect him.
And yeah, that type of banal evil becomes hard to stomach when I nearly was homeless before getting this job and I’m still speaking up.
Similarly for Robin, she could have spoken up at any time, can still change her staff at any time. But she won’t. Because her current power is worth more than all that.
And it’s going to be interesting to see how Robin responds to having her nose shoved in it a little bit. She’s passed the first test, but it’s going to be interesting how she responds to Leslie’s story.
I wouldn’t say she’s being manipulated. I get the impression that she’s in congress because she thought it would be fun and exciting, but she never thinks through the consequences of her actions. She loves the perks and recognition that come with being in congress. The legislation and speeches are trivial, ephemeral things she does in order to stay in congress. She isn’t being manipulated, she just doesn’t care about the legislation she’s voting on.
When Joyce asked her about a discriminatory bill she voted for, Robin didn’t have an answer. I suspect the reality was “Frieda told me voting for it would appeal to ‘family values’ Christian conservatives and I didn’t put any more thought into it than that because I was busy imagining my next helecopter joy ride.”
Robin’s responsible for her own actions. She’s an adult. But decent people do horrible things all the time for all sorts of reasons. Culture growing up, the people around you, how prone you are to not thinking inconvenient things through…it adds up. People like Becky are the exception, not the rule. We’ve already seen Joyce, Sarah, Danny, Hank and others do plenty of harm while not being bad people. Just because Robin is in Congress doesn’t make her any different.
Things aren’t going to get magically better. Robin isn’t superhuman in this verse, and people don’t just turn their lives around overnight. But she doesn’t deserve to be scoffed at just because her positive traits are currently being called to the fore.
calling it: her advisors won’t let her throw the kid under the bus because he’s someone’s son. Robin doesn’t push it.
Most probable outcome.
Would her advisors really care about some random pastor’s son? Is this a States thing?
She’s a representative, so if he’s a well-known preacher in those counties, they could very well want to cosy up to him
Like I said, all Robin needs is people to show her she’s hurting people and she gets better.
…except when Joyce pointed out how that bill she supported could hurt homeless LGBT kids like Becky, and Robin blew it off and doubled down.
There’s good in her, but she’s not like Joyce, where there’s just a few layers of dirt that needed to be cleaned off of a heart of gold. Robin needs to become more good as well as less bad.
She verbally tripped over herself because she had no answer and likely hadn’t thought about it before.
And she still hasn’t thought about it, or made any correction based on it.
I’m not saying she CAN’T change, or even that she’s unwilling to. It’s just clearly not as simple as someone pointing out the problem. If it was, Roz would have been able to get through to her before now.
Leslie is the first person we’ve seen get through to her, and this may not even be a case of her changing her behavior at all, since it’s unlikely Robin knew about Ryan at all, beyond him being an intern.
It’s certainly a good sign, but I still think Leslie’s got her work cut out for her
Let’s not go to far with this. That’s not what this is.
This is Robin like Leslie and is with Leslie now and wants to make her happy, so right now this is what she says and probably even thinks.
But it’s not a grand realization or a real change of heart or anything like that. She believes Leslie because of her crush. That’s all.
No! Bad Leslie! Don’t listen to the politician! Don’t!
No joke, my boss during the bernie and then the hillary campaign was a woman named fryda, so this is A BIT WEIRD to read for me
It makes me feel bad for readers named, say, Ryan. I’m grateful the character I share a name with is fairly morally neutral.
I’m rather annoyed at Jonathan Brown’s refusal to shorten his name correctly.
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: Yup. Sounds about right. Like, Robin remembers literally no one’s name and rarely views even her own family members as important enough to matter. No shit she’s not going to remember some random local intern at a midnight event.
But more importantly, I’m impressed Leslie put this above telling her own story. She knows that that part might be rough, might make it hard to tell anything else or focus. So she gets out this part, the promise to Dorothy. Does a small good deed before any other part of this goes to shit.
And it’s why Leslie, even when she’s being a bit of a fuckup, is a damn good person and teacher. Her students always come first. No matter what. Even when she temporarily forgets.
Panel 2: Huh, Robin remembering something. Will wonders never cease?
Panel 3: Robin’s eyes don’t believe this transparent lie anymore than her mouth does. Yeah, she backs off this quick, but honestly, I feel like she was at a point that any half-hearted justification to abandon it would do.
And the important part of that is that it is proof that Robin does have a conscience and moral lines within her, but that she’ll bundle right over them for a second of power unless she has that excuse to cling to.
Re: Panel one, while Robin probably wouldn’t know many, if any, people’s names, I think this answer also speaks to how much coaching she has. ‘I know this one’ sounds like a kid at a pop quiz. She knows that whenever people come to her about her staff, it’s probably bad, so deny any and all knowledge and personal connection to throw them under the bus.
Also – slightly off topic – I just heard your Carla podcast today and I teared up at the end of it from your talk about how you drew strength from Carla. I’ve had characters like that too and I’m glad she was able to inspire you so much. You are wonderful and deserve a wonderful character like Carla to be your representation.
Ah thanks. Yeah, Carla hits deeply home for me and it was great to kinda gush about that and how important having that kind of representation is for me.
I completely understand. Representation is important, and the higher quality and more specific to your circumstances/wants/needs is important.
Put it this way – If there’d been more female characters like Malaya or Sal on tv when I was a kid, I’d have struggled with my relationship to felinity far faaaar less.
I suspect that the coaching there is less “throw them under the bus” and more “I did not have sex with that woman”. I mean, when was the last time you heard about a political intern in the news and it wasn’t a sexual harassment incident?
Does that really match with ‘I don’t know this intern/did not know this intern did the thing’ though?
I more figure it’s the lesson of Bill Clinton sinking deep :p
Oh, really? Well, that’s interesting. I’ve got a feeling that panel 7 is the hook for a bit of Robin back-story that I’d really, really be interested to know.
On another subject, I wonder how many politicians simply say and do whatever their campaign managers or chiefs of staff tell them is politically advantageous for them to do, no matter what they actually think on the matter? Government by polling, whilst beguiling, doesn’t always lead to good policy.
When she was eight, there was this alien going around abducting people and giving them superpowers, and she tried to get abducted, but missed the UFO, so she had to satisfy her power-hunger by becoming a Congresswoman instead.
Panel 4: This panel… this panel made me cry a bit.
Cause… it’s been leaking out a lot the shit I am fighting at my school, where one of my trans kids was raped on campus by his ex boyfriend and the school’s response has been just as bad as it could have been, keeping him on, communicating to the survivor that they believe he is a liar despite his assault being caught on camera, bullying the survivor to keep him and his family from suing, hamstringing his support network from pushing back against the rapist’s friends bullying and harassing him, and being pushed to a very nearly successful suicide attempt (that was only halted by a resource I gave him, which doesn’t make me feel good so much as terrified at how close it got).
And which is still bullying him and ignoring him and treating him like garbage because they can’t even begin to pretend to care about trans kids or rape and it’s more convenient to their jobs to wish it all away and pretend it never happen and just demand everyone just “move on”.
It’s been a hard and Sisyphean slog that just feels like one more futile fight against a social attitude ten times stronger than any survivor.
So to read a work in which an authority figure is told, hey, your man sexually assaulted someone and just believe it, just treat it like the real fucking thing it is instead of finding any excuse to side with the abuser and be shitty to survivors. To not just turn the other way and at most say “gosh that’s sad, but what can you do”?
But to actually say, yeah, then he should be locked up, let me take this seriously instead of just blowing it off and going “well, he’s not an employee of mine anymore and it’s not like I was paying him, so so what”.
That’s… intense. Like, it feels good. But it also feels so so bad, because the real world is never ever like that. But then the aspirational aspect to things like this, where they are responded to like they ought to be rather than how they are is also what keeps me coming back. So yeah, I think this moment is more happy than sad. But it’s definitely more bittersweet than I’d like (hey, just like Leslie’s feeling in this moment).
And sorry everyone for letting so much of this leak out of me of late, but this whole thing is infuriating and it keeps getting more infuriating. And the fact that I’ve had this battle so many times at this point mentoring trans and ace kids before this job, just makes it all so much fucking worse, because it’s a constant reminder of how these entrenched attitudes regarding sexual assault are so depressingly universal.
I am so, so proud of you for everything you do. Thank you a million times over for the difference you make to these kids. Hugs if wanted, hot chocolate and warm snuggly blankets if preferred?
Don’t apologize. This situation is nothing short of hellish and you deserve to vent about it. I’m sorry things are going badly, and I hope they improve. And I am echoing Shiro – thank you for being such a wonderful teacher and taking care of those kids.
Pretty sure we’re all pulling for you, and for the kid. (And all the other kids.)
If venting here helps, feel free. Listening is the least we can do.
Cerberus, it’s clear to us that you’re an important part of this kid’s support network, and that that makes what’s happening to him very hard on you. Let US be a part of YOUR support network. You need it as much as she does.
Speaking of superheroes… I think what you’ve done is very heroic and not many people can say they have had that kind of tremendous influence helping others, not to mention the influence you’ve had on the queer community specifically…
Honestly, I don’t tear up at much, but… yeah. I wish you, and those you’ve taken under your wing, the best of luck.
Hey, if venting here keeps you sane and prevents you from snapping and doing something stupid, thus depriving your kids of their champion, by all means, keep doing so. I am in awe of your patience. I would have lost my mind on the administration by now if I was in a similar situation.
Phew, glad the message is being passed along. But more evidence will be needed to prosecute Ryan. Still, baby steps that’s good.
“Whoever he is, I’ll put that jag in an effin’ CELL.’
There’s the Robin I loved poking through! YES, good job! Now to stop you being a LGBT+phobic shithead.
I do love when people take this seriously, in real life and media, because it does not happen often enough and it needs to.
I’m hoping this means she will be poking through her volunteer lists now.
My wager is on Ryan being the son of a major donor to Robin’s campaign. Because why would things be simple?
Panel 5: Yeah, I feel you Leslie. I fucking feel you there.
Panel 6: That soft quiet smile. Robin is showing an actual moral boundary and that’s extending hope. It’s just a shame that Leslie might end up in a relationship so guaranteed to crash and burn and where she’s going to be in the shitty position of trying to save a person, because of that invitation to hope.
Also, mmhmm, yes, like her for reasons I’m sure you couldn’t possibly begin to put a word to, but she just seems to light up a room and make it so you can remember faces and names and what a person said. Goddamn, Robin, do you have to make your closeted flirtation so frickin’ adorable?!?
Also, I can’t help but notice that stabilizing hand that hasn’t left that guarded position since they sat down for beer. Even as Leslie’s warming up, she’s still guarded. She’s still in pain. She’s still hating herself for giving Robin this opening. And I don’t fully blame her for being guarded. Robin isn’t trustworthy, small token or not. And I just don’t want her to take a risk at vulnerability only to be fucked over for it.
Panel 7: And finally we see a political position she actually cares about, one she doesn’t just view as a game of ‘win the electorate’. Something she’s willing to fight for. And who knows, maybe there’s a tiny piece of the Robin that wanted to be a congresswoman in the first place. A sign of a redeemable aspect of her, admittedly buried under a shit-ton of well… shit.
Sometimes, child logic is good logic.
Also L O L Roz knew what she was doing <3
But seriously, what is the percent of Robin ‘liking Leslie more’ because of gay vs because she can actually recognize Leslie is a good person?
I think that, after a long time amongst the artificial smiles and back-stabbing of DC, Robin is enjoying being around someone whose views are sincere and based on personal experience rather than what the polls say may or may not be popular. Does the phrase ‘breath of fresh air’ ring any bells.
Quite frankly, what Robin needs right now is a friend, not a lover. She needs someone who can help her rediscover her true self and her own honest position rather than just being a part of the echo-chamber for those who shout the loudest and thus tend to control public debate.
Unfortunately, her circumstances and career will not permit her to have that (IMO).
Robin’s bi, I believe.
(Not that she knows it, of course)
I’m actually liking Robin more than I thought I could. She’s actually capable of real human emotion.
If Leslie seriously thinks that Robin won’t let this drop the instant her advisors press her, than she really is fucking blonde.
It depends on what Robin really wants the most, doesn’t it? Power or personal relationships that have a soupçon of honesty and reality in them.
She has a track record of the former.
And very little experience with the latter. It could be seductive.
… From a social POV: I’ve dealt with Robin’s before. Generally speaking, no matter how phoney, there is some shred of real person there, and if you connect with their real self, you can get through to them. It seems here like Leslie is able – briefly – to connect with Robin’s real self, so maybe something good will come of this exchange?
Or maybe Robin will take a baseball bat to her conscience again. Cuz when dealing with a Robin, even if you connect and get through – there’s always a chance they’ll murder their conscience for power.
Volunteering for very political entities in meatspace has made me both a lot more cynical and a lot more calculating in my social space. Onnn the other hand, it’s also made me a lot more effective. I’m not really sure whether it’s a good thing overall – but the play of the political dance which Leslie is in right now is something I’m increasingly familiar with, and it’s all in understanding what genuinely matters to your opponent, and making them feel, emotionally, that supporting you aligns with what genuinely matters on an emotional level to them.
… this is why the sort of people who loudly proclaim their reasonableness and objectivity are often the easiest to manipulate: Nobody is objective or reasonable. Everyone makes their decisions emotionally. Literally everyone – it’s how the human brain works. We decide emotionally and then justify intellectually. Arguing intellect against someone’s emotion is bound to fail (especially since what usually ends up happening instead is your emotion is arguing against their emotion). In fact, very few people are convinced by argument at all.
What convinces people is emotional connection with your point of view. Consider Joyce: What convinced her that homosexuality isn’t wrong? Was it Amber or Roz yelling at her? No. It was realizing she cared for her friends and didn’t think they were bad people. Emotionally realizing that she couldn’t think ill of the people she loved is what convinced Joyce, not reason. She justified with reason afterwards – but the emotion was the driving force.
What makes people who are very convinced of their own reason and objective perspective easy to manipulate is that they are not aware of the fact that they can be manipulated, so they don’t look out for it. Being so very convinced that they’re above such petty concerns as emotion and immune to emotion plays is precisely what makes them vulnerable to it. If you’re aware of your emotions, and of the fact that people make decisions emotionally, and you’re aware of common manipulation tactics, you can be aware of people when they try to manipulate you. The narrative story is a common example of a manipulation technique – of the form, “One time I [encountered a situation] where I was [faced with a challenge]. I had to [make a choice]. I chose [decision]. That led to [consequence], which is why I believe [belief].” – the idea being that you get someone to connect emotionally to your story, which makes them more likely to align with the point of it. Think of how Leslie was talking about how she ended up on the street to try to convince her students that homelessness is a serious issue among LGBT youth. The technique itself is morally neutral and can be used for good or ill – but it is very effective). Another common example is the use of loaded language to try to manipulate someone into making an unfavorable admission – often paired with making a straw man of their argument. An example is with the trans bathroom argument: “Are you saying we should let a 40 year old body builder rapist ex-con in a women’s bathroom if he says he feels like a woman that day?!” The idea is to force you either into saying yes, where they can then try to paint you as wanting children raped, or into saying no, where they can then paint you as being disingenuous or secretly really agreeing with them all along. The way around that trick is to refuse to give a binary answer, and also point out that they’re manipulating the conversation. “I don’t think that’s a very fair characterization of my point of view. What I’m saying is [restatement of position].”
But, thing is – someone who’s not aware of those rhetorical tricks and manipulation tactics will blunder into them headlong and help the other side win over support by looking like they don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. And people who are very convinced of their own rationality will be convinced by it without realizing they were played.
In recent years, the Left has been bad at getting people to connect emotionally with their positions (for good or ill, a lot of lefties – me included – get a bad taste in our mouths about intentionally manipulating others), and the Right has been very good at it (Donald Trump has basically given a seminar on how you manipulate huge numbers of people into thinking you’re right when you’re factually, objectively wrong. How? He knows how to manipulate. Clinton doesn’t.). The Right by contrast seems to have no such compunction about using manipulation to its ends. In fact, it’s used manipulation and branding to huge effect: its biggest wins in recent years has been the rebranding of neo-Nazis as alt-right and the positioning of xenophobia as a neutral and objective position.
What we’re seeing here is the real Robin, when she turns her manipulation and facade off. Otherwise, she’s in full manipulation mode – and her goal is usually not to convince others of her views, but rather to be a mirror to those she’s speaking to, and make them think she supports what they think. Like Trump – she doesn’t care so much about integrity as she does about convincing people she’s got their backs (even when she obviously doesn’t).
Real Robin peeked through for a second – but I’m pretty sure Politician Robin will be back as soon as she figures out that she might be able to win Leslie’s support by giving a token gesture now.
Or are we seeing Politician Robin now as we see her being a mirror to Leslie and making her think she supports what she thinks?
I don’t think so, but it’s not that clear.
Very much agree with the larger political/manipulation/reason/emotion argument.
I suspect she’s going full manipulator here – probably trying to get into Leslie’s panties. This is going to end in betrayal, mark my words.
“Sincerity is the key.”
“Once you can fake that, you’ve got it made.”
For Robin types, that’s their byword.
For most of the rest of us involved in political/semi-political orgs, you want to actually be sincere about what you’re saying.
But Robin types totally exist.
Is anyone else completely confused by that last panel?
Her younger self would be completely devastated to grow up and be Lex Luthor instead of Supergirl.
It’s a trap! -Captain Picard, Firefly
Wait, wasn’t Captain Picard the one with the phonebox that could sail underwater? By H. G. Verne?
I thought he was the princess from another dimension with the insectoid ship that could travel through time..
Oh cool, Robin actally is gonna do something about the intern! That’s great, we get to see — oh, her stated reasons boil down to “I like you, barely-known stranger, more than the person I hire to work for me” and “SUPERHEROES ARE COOL AND THAT PERSON SAID THEY WERE NOT COOL”.
Well, any port in the storm.
This is like Telephone. Too many degrees of separation. Joyce told Dorothy who told Leslie who told Robin. It’s a good thing nothing seems to have been lost in translation.
Dorothy was there when it happened, and there’s not a lot of complexity in what she said to translate.
Haha! It’s funny because political representatives are all just puppets and dumb as fuck! Get it? Funny!
Aww, she made Leslie smile, good job Robin. Also, how is she talking with that bottle stuffed into her mouth?
AND THEN HEAD ALIEN-
oh who am i kidding, that would be too weird
So…Robin’s a puppet and basically just does whatever people tell her is a good idea? She was spouting nonsense in Leslie’s classroom because still just as dumb as ever. Good to know some things never change.