I’m Mystic, but I feel like Joyce wouldn’t be, because a) it sounds pagan and b) evolution. Because she still has THOSE biases, unless I’ve lost track of how much she’s grown, which I may well have.
Why do I have absolutely no trouble picturing Robin playing Pokemon Go? Her aide trying to bring something important to her attention, only to be met with, “Not now, I’m trying to catch a Haunter!”
Robin was aware that what she did was bad, and she has no defense. She just doesn’t care.
That’s… probably better than outright malice and also actively insulting/threatening Joyce.
It is the don’t cares that allow the evil to exist. They are the ones that get to ignore the harm caused by others and feel good about themselves, because they didn’t do it. No playing that it wasn’t malice just doesn’t cut it, it is still evil and causes harm. This is why we have trump on his way to the White House. The don’t cares supporting evil.
Is that opinion? Or Edict? Or Proclamation? Or are you speaking with The Voice? B’ Cause you seem very sure of it. And I would respectfully like to disagree, but I think you’r right.
Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! Let’s instead assume that they feel obliged to follow God’s law, with no autonomy or choice in the matter of how they treat gays, and they can’t even have their own emotional opinion on the subject! But they’d feel bad about being forced by their faith to persecute gays if they were allowed to!
Its probably better in terms of results. Not sure its better ethically.
If someones about to be hit by a car, and you could warn them but deliberately choose not too, your as guilty of murder as the driver as far as I see.
Inaction/action doesn’t make much difference. (provided its a conscious choice not to act)
When it’s a matter of indifference, if you can convince enough other people to support equality the politicians will see which way the wind is blowing and jump on the bandwagon. With active hostility, they’ll fight you to the bitter end.
So yeah, I’d rather have the indifferent politicians doing this for political convenience than have those same elected officials be true believers in persecution.
Which is why Trump for all the horror that he is, is still less dangerous than Pence. Pence is a true believer, which makes the idea of him being one heartbeat away from the presidency, the most scary thing imaginable.
I’d rather have them for practical reasons, but… I don’t think I can like them better.
Malice I can understand. Complete lack of empathy is the one thing I can’t empathize with.
I like to think Roz has a LITTLE more compassion with that. Maybe it’s how it started out, but I have trouble thinking that Roz’s agenda is still her #1 priority after seeing Leslie’s face and reaction.
And it’s also sad that this implies that the majority of people who vote in her district feel that way as well. Why couldn’t they be just anti-‘Pat Lee’? That’d only hurt, like what, one person?
This leads to one of the arguments for strong central government in The Federalist Papers — that tyrannical special interests are more likely to get majorities in smaller political bodies (states, towns, that sort of thing) and persecute targeted groups. In larger bodies there are more interests represented and it’s harder for those special interests to get stable control — to many conflicting interests that have to negotiate power-sharing agreements.
In theory though, the flip side of that is that if the tyrannical special interests do get control of the strong central government, they get to control everybody.
Robin obviously infuriates the hell out of her (and rightly so), but Roz seems to think she’s capable of changing. I’d say it could be both, but I think better of Roz than to drag Leslie into it just to mess with her sister.
If there’s a silver lining here, Joyce DID just out Becky as homeless to Leslie in the last strip, so maybe Leslie taking Becky in and under her gay, gay wing could be on the horizon.
As noted yesterday, since sexual orientation carries over from Shortpacked to Dumbverse, this Robin is also “undefinably queer” – which makes today’s comic incredibly tragic on basically all levels.
SP!Robin wasn’t really aware of her queerness before her relationship with Leslie. As she stated, she thought herself straight, at first, but made ‘an exception’ for Leslie. Only later, did she acknowledge herself as queer. This Robin has never had her ‘inner closet’ opened.
What’s a /little/ funny is how much she also wanted to bang Amber for a long time, culminating in her and Leslie sexually assaulting her with make outs (IIRC, it’s been a minute).
She still loudly insisted how straight she was while lusting for two seperate girls. It’s kind of impressive. Reminds me of an allegedly straight girl who insisted to me that men were ugly and unattractive, but you have to sleep with them, because that’s just how it is. No other choices, like those incredibly beautiful and attractive girls you see around.
This being why I say it’s a /little/ funny. Because it’s also tragic.
Upsetting. Far too apt considering the American political climate. Willis, though I am frustrated, props to you for making your characters so realistic and robust. But also, damn you Willis. This hurts. But really, it’s not your fault. It’s just what’s going on today in the wake of it all.
Man, I should go back to my emo days and start writing songs!
Panel 4 is unsettlingly familiar after the past couple of days. I have heard way too damn many people saying nothing bad’s going to happen in the next four years, while at the same time I see a steady stream of horror stories on Facebook about bad things that are already happening. I just hope I have the strength to be Joyce here.
By the way, I saw a thing suggesting that anyone willing to be a “safe person”–running interference for anyone who needs protection from bigots, or just being there for emotional support–signify it with a safety pin on their shirt. I think I’m going to start doing it.
Yeah, that part infuriates me. Like, motherfucker, you do not get to piss on my face and say it’s raining. Half this country voted specifically on the promise of fucking up the lives of me, my friends, my family out of hatred and spite, voting for a literal fascist if it could make me and mine’s lives worse than theirs.
And yet, the fuckers who voted literally for a system that will fuck the marginalized in every way imaginable still want to be seen as good people despite that. To be patted on the head and assured they aren’t actually so racist and sexist that they voted a rapist who regularly quote neo-nazis into the highest office in the land.
No, I’m sorry, you don’t get to pretend that this is all a game and that your actions don’t fuck with my life. That this is some dispassionate system of points rather than the system of governance that controls all our lives.
That’s what’s kept me feeling sick for the last two days. I saw a breakdown earlier that puts the actual Trump voters as only a quarter of the country, so that was a small comfort, but that still means three-quarters of the country (minus the people who got screwed by the voting rights act being gutted, which I’m sure wasn’t insignificant) either agrees with him, or didn’t care enough about LGBT people, people of color, women, disabled people, to drag their butts to the polls.
I don’t have any words left for it. I can’t believe this is a real thing that’s happening. Any moment I’m going to wake up and it’s going to be a horrible nightmare.
A lot of them are like my grandmother. Hate the guy, but held their noses and voted for him anyway because twenty some years of propaganda has convinced them Hillary Clinton is the antichrist.
I was about to make a correction, but the correction didn’t really make it that much better, so the only thing I’d achieve is to look pedantic at the worst fucking possible moment.
They also didn’t vote against him, is my point. I’m not accusing them of being bigoted, exactly–just that they didn’t care that a violently racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic yam person was up for election to the highest office in the land.
No, I’m talking about the 50% that didn’t vote at all, and the 25% that actively voted for him. That’s my three-quarters figure. (I’m simplifying and disregarding the third party voters for the moment, of course it’s not precisely 25-50-25.)
Cold comfort I know, but America isn’t the only country going down the far right pseudo fascist path. The U.K. and Australia are already there. Right now in Aus the government is talking loudly about repealing a section (18c) of the discrimination act which basically prohibits hate speech. In the words of our Attorney General “People have the right to be a bigot.”. And this, along with hideous laws about refugees are cheered by a vocal minority which is much larger than anyone wants to admit.
I weep for the future, and the horrors before civility and common sense reassert themselves.
I’m actually going to make an argument against that point.
In blue states, any votes after the one that caused Hillary to win the state didn’t count. In deep red states, flipping them is exceedingly unlikely.
Someone not turning out in a blue state or a deep red state because they know Hillary could win is different from someone not turning out in, say, a swing state.
Maybe it’s thin comfort, but it was only a quarter of the country, not half. Only half of all eligible voters even bothered to vote, meaning he got a quarter of the vote, not half.
I know, it’s not the best comfort, but maybe it’s something.
It still means that fully half the country, even if it didn’t actually vote for him, didn’t think him bad enough to bother to go out and vote against him.
How many of that remaining half who didn’t vote weren’t actually able to, by the way? Disenfranchised or in prison or what? (and you have no idea how horrified I was to learn that a prior conviction meant your voting rights were stripped away forever! WTF?!) Was it a significant portion?
And how many of those people were unable to make it to the polls because they had to work and would have lost their job if they took time off to go and vote? I hear that that’s a thing too…
Most states have laws saying they have to let you have time off to vote but if you are barely able to pay your bills can you really afford to lose a day’s pay? Some people can’t afford to go vote.
Cerberus, I have read your posts and admired them.
However, I think you are going overboard on this one, or perhaps just focusing too narrowly.
Half of the country did not vote specifically to fuck us over. They voted for change, to get the assholes out who have been screwing over the system for years on end. Of course, that is most of them, unfortunately. But many of them just genuinely wanted a change for the better for our country. Their jobs back, and a stop to the death of the middle class in this country. Their view is too narrow also.
I did not vote for him because I do not think he is the man for the job: he is too bigoted, racist, and likely dangerous. And I liked Hillary, I still think she’d be a good President: but great, but good.
However, Trump is the damned President Elect of this country now: and we have him for the next 4 years, if he dosn’t give himself a heart attack from all the paranoia.
Here is what I am worried about at this point:
1. He has his own little army around him, well armed and equiped. This has to be disbanded. Dictators have their own armies of loyal guards, U.S. presidents do not.
2. He refused to allow the press to accompany him to the White House today, this is a tradition. As a business man he could do that and likely had to because of the need for secrecy in patents and designs. However, he can not and MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO THIS. The press are the watchdogs of the politicians. And I damn well hope they start acting like it.
3. Trump has been invited to the EU conference as soon as he can get there: I shudder to think of what he is going to do to our European allies ties and especially England. However, his only strong suit may be his financial knowledge and this is a banking conference so..maybe he will not embarrass us too much.
4. Russia is gearing up (and has been) for war. Putin is thinking of Trump as an ally. This is not a good thing. Russia changed sides in the middle of WWII. Understandable in the line of self-preservation: but not so much as a dependable ally. Putin is no ones ally but his own.
5. Trump said he would ‘remove’ Palistine and Isriel is already celebrating that. Trump is moving around forces there he does not understand.
6. He has said he is going to let Japan support themselves, protect themselves. He does not understand the importance to the U.S. safety of our alliance withJapan, with regard to that area of the world: China, Korea, etc.
7. Mexico is one of our biggest buyers. What is going to happen there – any guesses?
It is not we marginalized who are the only ones in trouble here. Understand that well. The entire US is in trouble.
I have to wish him well, he is our President Elect and wishing him evil does nothing for any of us. I hope he succeeds in steering the US on the course that does the least harm to all of us and maybe even some good. But I am afraid.
Suppose that there are people who voted for Trump who were, as you say, not specifically voting specifically to fuck us over.
To be as thorough as possible with the initial enumeration of possibilities, even if to an unreasonable extent, either they didn’t think *not* fucking us over was important enough to vote *against*, or they somehow didn’t know.
The second of these seems extremely improbable. He campaigned entirely on bigotry. Every time he talked about “change” was directly in the context of fucking over some already-marginalized group or other. And then, just in case we missed one of the bigotries among all the others, he chose a VP who specifically tried to fund literal torture camps for LGBT+.
Those other things are definitely all also problems, but even if “technically” true, saying they didn’t vote “specifically” to fuck over (insert just about any marginalized group here), doesn’t actually make them any less complicit, and also sounds very very very much like a “Not all…” argument.
All those things you said are definitely also very big problems. I notice that probably half of them are also rooted in fucking over people who are marginalized.
We have a *very long* list of problems, overall. We need to be extra careful that our attempts at avoiding the literal apocalypses don’t let us “forget” the slightly lesser atrocities that also very very urgently need our attention. We can’t *all* spend all our energy on the apocalypses or we will still continue to lose far too much.
And in many cases “focusing too narrowly” is useful, when it means literal survival. I currently have the privilege of passing (though I’m beginning to see that the cost may be too great for me to continue this) but Cerberus does not. She has been too visible to be able to go back into hiding, even if she wanted to. And she has already had several very close calls (which she has mentioned in comment threads on this site many times). And she has already seen from the ground that it is already getting worse. Losing anyone to this crap would be terrible. It would. But losing Cerberus in particular would also mean losing many whose continued survival hinges heavily on her continued work. We probably do have at least two literal apocalypses on our hands, which we definitely need to get to much faster work averting, but we can’t do a thing about it if we die to “lesser” dangers before that. Even if her worries look like “focusing too narrowly”, I think we can excuse her of that. I think it is precisely what we need her to be doing.
Sorry, that ‘voted for change’ narrative is complete bullshit – almost as complete bullshit as ‘economic anxiety’.
If any of the people voting for Trump and Co wanted change, they wouldn’t have voted for the incumbent Congress. They put the same assholes they say they didn’t want in power back in power.
They didn’t vote for change. They voted for hatred and bigotry, plain and simple.
Like, okay, we found out today that the head of Mr. Trump’s domestic-policy transition team is a guy named Ken Blackwell. You may not know who that is, but holy crow he’s bad news.
Basically, he’s high up with the Family Research Council, an all-out no-holds-barred hate/lobbying group aimed right at LGBT people. I fought these guys for years; they’re evil. (They supported the states outlawing us directly; they served as a manufacturing point for fake ‘studies’ asserting… basically anything they could come up with that makes LGBT people look like monsters and demons; and so on. If there’s a way to hate LGBT people, they’re on it.)
The FRC had a lot of influence on the GOP platform this year, and is preparing a list of executive orders for Mr. Trump to execute in his first hundred days. We know they’ll be acted upon, because they’re on the Trump team. And they include several actions, such as allowing health care providers to refuse care to LGBT people, and so on.
I like to think that Pokemon Go is a thrilling commentary on U.S politics, with Red begin republicans, Blue being democrats and Yellow being Independents.
Of course if Mike was running for President his slogan wouldn’t be “Let’s America great again.” It would be “I’m going to make America a living hell, but you’ll vote for me anyway,” and would probably work.
Well I mean from a lot of people’s perspective that’s pretty much what Trump’s campaign was, just followed with “because a living hell is fantastic and you love the idea.”
Yup. Let’s keep the religious people happy by oppression and encouraging bigotry against minorities especially people who are LGBTQ+ because they make up such a tiny portion of the population that they don’t matter at all! *head desk*
Sadly, the way the USA political system is setup, politicians have zero external motivations to take people like me into consideration. At least until we get enough allies in the bigger demographics that they can’t ignore the issue anymore. Its a system setup to ignore minority groups.
I know. It’s so frustrating and exhausting and sickening. I just want to wake up tomorrow and find that evolution spontaneously occurred while I slept and everyone realized that this is all we get and we need to protect each other and our planet. I thought it was getting better for a lot of groups until our recent election and now I’m back to being scared for all of us especially those who can’t pass or blend in.
I’m not sure if you’ve been reading the posts from the last few days but I’m a disabled cis female polysexual Caucasian atheist democrat with a couple visible tattoos who lives in a red state in the bible belt in a small town full of Christians and bigots. I can hide a lot about myself if I have to, but I did that for far too much of my life. I don’t think anyone should have to hide if they are part of the LGBTQ+ rainbow or aren’t christian anymore than someone should have to hide their ethnicity. I wish the world was different than it currently is.
Oh believe me, I’ve thought about it, but my dad needs me so I put up with all the mega Christians and the bigots. At least most of them when they discover I’m an atheist only go into a speech about how sorry they feel for me and then try to throw some bible stuff at me to hopefully make me think so I can “find my way back to god” although I have gotten more extreme stuff like someone accusing me of worshiping the devil and being in the illuminati. The polysexual thing gets weird reactions. I usually say bi as I’ve learned my lesson trying to explain genders to people here. Some freak out. Some ask me if I’ve ever been with a woman and then proceed to tell me that I’m not really bi as I haven’t (I’ve only ever dated one person and that was a guy for 7 years) or that I’ve “chosen” because I dated a guy. Expressing interest in a woman on tv or something gets shut down real quick as disgusting or don’t want to hear it territory. I had one woman tell me that she’s never met a bi person that wasn’t a whore and a slut. I’ve had people try to convince me that appreciation for the same sex is normal but it doesn’t make me bi and that even having sex with a woman wouldn’t mean I was bi because a lot of people try things. My ex went between finding it hot and trying to get me to say stuff for his personal gratification to being paranoid I was going to leave him for a woman (nope. He left me for one). I’ve been asked about threesomes like it’s the only way someone like me could enjoy sex. I’ve been asked if I was abused as a child. I’ve gotten bible quotes. It’s odd. I would hate to think how it would be if I advertised it openly.
This is a country where the majority rule. I think the frightening thing is that Robin typifies the average politician. I used to feel minorities were targeted by most of them. But now I think the average one is like Robin….they just don’t THINK of minorities in any way shape or form. Marginalized citizens are just not on their radar.
Is this right? No. But how to solve it? You can’t make people who’ve never ‘been there’ understand. You can just hope to make them think.
Well they /are/ ‘minorities’ as in there’s less of them than the majority. So in certain areas in politics it probably makes ‘sense’ not to think of them as important, because while there are certain districts where more of the majority actually, y’known, think of said minorities as human beings and perhaps care a little and think barring them from jobs etc is monstrous, they really don’t /have/ to to get through their lives. So some in the majority just don’t. They are perhaps completely uncaring, passive in the face of it (I believe in terms of race MLK talked about the white moderate- same thing probably- and Joyce /prior/ to all this bs would have been like that)- or they take an active role in hating them and hurting them (Toe dad). The wider result is the same though when it comes to how they vote.
It’s a toss up, and politicians positions sometimes depends on the majority groups waking up.
Politicians are, often, less that grand leader leading and inspiring people to their sparkling vision, and sometimes more like that pandering little kid in high school following the crowd and trying to be one of the first of what seems to be ‘in season’ and be popular with those who cast their votes in the bid to be noticed and liked. I mean on some level I get it: their very jobs depend on it. But they of course throw people under the bus completely in their bid for the homecoming queen crown. So my sympathy kind of dies there: they could have chosen a different career or path. Either they really do believe it as right and they’re rotten to the very core of their very being, or they don’t and they’re weak in character: and the results are the same.
Its kind of despicable really how much basic human decency can depend on popular opinion. That the blocking of basic human rights and dignity is based on stuff like that. But well… it affects a ‘minority’ and the majority probably think it won’t affect anyone they care about- (even as say their sibling/kid/niece/nephew/grandkid is unusually subdued as they speak for /some/ reason and too afraid to speak…) And some stop caring for said people if it does come to light anyway and they gather up the courage, rather than changing their mind. Or ‘care’ in horrifying ways in their bid to ‘fix’ them so they won’t have to actually care o think on what they’ve done. Or perhaps even wave them off as being ‘selfish’ themselves!
Some in the majority will change. Some never, ever will. It’s kind of a mistake to let civil rights be down to popular vote either way. I mean correct me if I’m wrong on this, but mixed race marriages themselves if left to popular vote in the US wouldn’t have been legalised the time it did if it was: right? It might have been increasing in popularity by then but I do think more were against then for at the time. And while it’s hardly sunshine and roses now- it is more normalised, even when there were people quoting scripture that it was ‘wrong’ and probably whined it forced ‘good god fearing christians’ to do things ‘against their moral standing’ or ‘religious freedom’ at the time.
A lot of it is that there are real problems in this world – economic and geopolitical – that make everyone’s lives worse. Unfortunately, the politicians don’t know the solution to those, so they try to distract their constituents and create support through social demagoguery, be it racial or anything else.
The problem is that they’re basically not smart enough to foresee the most likely consequences of this. That’s why, when the bullets, stones and Molotov cocktails start flying, their reaction is shock, surprise and condemnation of the ‘extremists’ whom they had incited.
That’s a nice slogan, but this is the second time in 16 years someone has won the white house with fewer popular votes than his main opponent. There are a whole bunch of issues where opinion polls show clear majorities of the citizens on one side and legislatures on the other, and the legislatures keep on getting reelected. Democratic candidates for the House of Representatives got more votes nationally than Republican candidates did in 2012, but Republicans maintained a significant majority in congress because of gerrymandering. In Virginia Democrats got more votes and Republicans won 8 seats to the Democrats’ 3. A court-ordered redistricting led to one Democratic pick-up this year. Democrats won statewide again, but Republicans have a 7-4 edge in our House delegation now.
So, “majority rules” sounds nice, but the reality doesn’t live up to the slogan.
To them, every time LGBTQ pop up in the news, TV, books, etc, it feels like we’re all around them, oppressing them from every angle. Every time a law is passed protecting LGBTQ from discrimination, it’s another sign that America cares more about them than the “normals.”
The awful never really changes. It just gets worse so that last quarter’s satire seems like this quarter’s status quo and next quarter’s subtle understatement.
“Infringe on their religious freedoms” my ass. People just can’t stand that they’re no longer allowed to FORCE Christianity on people. Although, with our new VP-elect, that may very well become the case once again.
Yeah, their entire argument is “If my religion isn’t in charge then I’m being oppressed!” Like, no. Quit disrespecting people who experience(d) actual persecution with your whining. I saw a discussion between two people in which the Trump voter was arguing that it wasn’t fair to be oh-so-hurtful to her because omg didn’t you know that Christians legitimately feared Hillary just as much as Muslims fear Trump? I didn’t catch the conversation live, but the Clinton voter fortunately wasn’t having any of that nonsense. Being too polite, I thought, but firm. Still, I was so angry. So angry. Ma’am, you are a liar. Nobody is that bad at risk assessment. Even if that woman listened entirely to right-wing news, she had to know that Hillary is a Christian (even if not the “right kind”) and that Trump had suggested keeping Muslims out of the country. (I mean, I guess she could have been one of those Obama and Clinton are literally demons people, but based on the actual conversation, I doubt it.) The naked hate makes me scared and sad, but mendacity rooted in privilege is making me even angrier than it usually does this week.
Nope, that’s not true, if it was I’d be celebrating one of the most historic landmark moments in American history instead of looking into feasible ways to move to Canada. (Sorry, I know I started the thread but goddamned I’m bummed right now)
Why Canada? Why not Mexico? I’m serious; I see all of these people who really object to Trump’s comments about Mexicans, but when it comes time to pick a country, none of them actually want to live in the one with Mexicans. For someone reason they pick one that’s actually even whiter than the US. (Canada is about 86% white.) I really and truly don’t understand.
PS: I like Mexico. Mexicans are nice people and the weather is great.
It’s not such a mystery. USA, Canada, England, and Australia are all largely English-speaking. Those are places most people go between without taking it upon themselves to learn a new language.
Thanks for answering! I learned Spanish in school, so I had assumed that everyone learned it. (What language did you guys learn?) Spanish is a great language if you ever do decide to learn it–the spelling is much more sensible than English spelling. 🙂
Also, if you ever do visit Mexico, lots of people there speak English/there are plenty of accommodations for English-speaking people, especially in the heavily ex-pat areas. And the people are really great.
You know, I was just researching this (Inspired by your response) and it turns out that there are a whole bunch of countries where people speak English! Maybe not the majority of people, but it’s the official langague in countries throughout the former British empire.
Ah, now I am dreaming of visiting India. 🙂 🙂 🙂 Thank you for the inspiration!
I took two years of Spanish in high school, and have retained virtually none of it. We never even got to conversational level; we were memorizing words but not speaking the language.
On the subject of fleeing the country screaming, I wouldn’t head south for several reasons – besides not knowing the language, Mexico is a lot further away from where I am, and I’ve lived in vegas and hated the heat. And perhaps most importantly I have no tolerance for spicy food at all. I literally can’t eat authentic mexican food. I suspect Canada would be more tolerable on that front.
Not that I’m leaving, mind you. Other people are more imperiled than me – other than being liberal and an atheist, I tick off all the ‘safe’ boxes. Plus moving would involve, you know, moving. I’ll put that off as long as possible.
I’ve always had a deep respect for Canada. It’s one of the most peaceful and compassionate countries in the world, there’s no death penalty, far stricter gun laws, and their prison population is a fraction of America’s. They have universal health care, which I firmly believe should be a basic human right, a strong focus on education, and a political climate that far better aligns with my personal beliefs. And honestly, America as a country really seems to care about proving it’s better then everyone else (which I think is so toxic), and it seems like Canada just wants to be good.
To be perfectly frank living in Canada for at least a little while is something I’ve always wanted to do, and now with America as it is…honestly if this what the country wants for their leader, then I want nothing to do with this country, so why not at least try to go to a place I’ve admired for a long time.
By the way, I HATE warm weather. I absolutely hate it. Snow is one of my absolute favorite things in the world and the fact Canada is so cold is a selling point all on it’s own for me.
I respect that you like Canadian culture/government, just as I like Mexico. I suspect that most of the people who would like to move to Canada also like Canadian culture/government, and would prefer that the US be more like Canada.
But there is an irony here, at least if we are talking about people who want to move as a result of this election. They don’t want to live among Mexicans or be part of Mexican culture. They want to be part of one of the whitest countries on earth. But they also turn around and criticize people who say they don’t want Mexican immigration to the US.
This is the part I don’t understand. I can understand liking Canada–a friend moved there from Pakistan, and she absolutely loves it there. I can understand loving Mexico–I have many friends who live there and love it. But I don’t understand the American political dynamic here.
(Yes, I understand the language issue, but I know lots of people who don’t speak Japanese but still want to move to Japan. It’s not that hard to learn a language if you love the culture. Besides, there are tons of English-speaking countries that aren’t majority white, like Kenya and India–I would love to visit India someday–so only speaking English isn’t as big a barrier as people make it out to be.)
I don’t have a problem with mexican people, as far as I know – to my knowledge I’ve never spoken to one. However I have no tolerance for mexican *food*. No spice tolerance at all. If that makes me a racist, so be it.
Also, I don’t really want to be a part of anybody’s culture, mexican or otherwise. I just want to mind my own business. Is that so wrong?
Anon, that shouldn’t be a mystery either. An American not wanting to move to Mexico, and insisting Mexicans be allowed to move to US, is only inconsistent if you imagine them as trying to plan out the ethnicity of their neighborhood.
But both are an expression of the same principle, that people should live where they want. This is especially so because when people like Trump talk about Mexicans, they are not talking about people coming into the US, but people who are already there.
There are good reasons someone who doesn’t want to move south still wouldn’t want to round up thousands of people into camps and try sending them away from their homes. Previous efforts have involved great cruelty and even fatalities. Is it really ironic someone could like Canada and still oppose that?
Trump’s treatment of Mexican immigrants is wildly racist, you don’t need to love Mexico or even like Mexico to speak out against that. You can hate everything about Mexican culture and still think Mexicans deserve to be treated like human beings. I’m guess what I’m saying is not wanting to be a part their culture isn’t the same as not respecting it. I completely respect Mexican culture, and I admire many of the ideals it stands for, but at the same time it holds no appeal to me on a personal level. That doesn’t mean I think it’s bad or lesser then my culture, it just means it’s not what I’m looking for. I can feel that way and still think it’s a culture worth protecting and fighting for.
Besides Trump’s rampant racism towards Mexican immigrants is only ONE of the reasons people want to leave because of the election. Trump has also demonstrated incredible sexism, Islamophobia, homophobia, and basically every other form of prejudice it’s possible to have. Hell even setting aside political differences, the fact of matter is it’s no longer safe to be someone who isn’t a straight white male in this country.
Well, after experiencing northern Alberta winters for many, many years now, I have to say yes, snow is nice, temperatures so cold being outside more than thirty seconds being life threatening, not so much.
I think part of it is that Canada is often considered “America lite”, culturally more similar to the USA (minus the guns), in part due to the huge shared border (and most of our population being concentrated along said border).
Although one thing that does/did amuse me, as a Canadian, was the number of right-leaning people threatening to move to Canada because of Obama in the previous two elections. I mean, even WITH the Harper government at the time – we are generally more left-leaning than anything Obama wanted to accomplish (universal healthcare, stricter gun laws, etc). It’s like seeing a wild-fire approaching, and deciding you’d be safer jumping into an active volcano.
As an aside; If you truly love Canada (and all it stands for) and wish to move here – I wish you the best of luck in pursuing the proper legal arrangements for doing so. But if you are -just- running from Trump and his ilk, I sympathize, but: I beg you to stay put if you can. He scares us too, and if you all move up here, who’s left to vote him out next time around?
Because Canada has an /extremely/ similar culture (It’s even just as provincial!) and they speak the majority language (as long as they don’t move to quebec). Heck, I don’t speak enough spanish to be comfortable living in Mexico.
As a heads up to those who don’t speak French, New Brunswick also has a high French-speaking population. When we drove across Canada a few years ago, I barely got to use my high school French in Quebec, but I definitely had to pull it out for New Brunswick.
For Americans looking to flee Trump, I’d recommend Ontario (great tax breaks), or one of the Prairie provinces (although perhaps not Alberta, there’s a lot of others looking for jobs thanks for Fort Mac burning down; but Saskatchewan is looking for people, I believe, and Manitoba probably is too), or BC. The Lower Mainland section of BC is ridiculously expensive to live in, but there are a lot of small towns with reasonable rent etc.
“I learned Spanish in school, so I had assumed that everyone learned it. (What language did you guys learn?) ”
My school offered French, German, Latin, and Spanish. It added Russian my senior year. I took Latin and German, but I think French was the most popular choice. I know French and Spanish were both more popular choices than German or Latin to fulfill the foreign language requirement.
Of my older siblings, who all started high school before we moved to the place I matriculated, I think 3 took Spanish and 2 French. Might have been 4 Spanish and 1 French. I don’t think the high school in my original home town offered German or Latin. I know my brother in law’s high school in New Mexico only offered French and Spanish.
Well, Robin is sounding less like Trump and more like a Trump supporter now.
Which is…
…um…
…basically just a sidegrade.
And on another note…
Ugh, “advances will infringe on religious freedom”. Easily the biggest pile of bullshit ever spewed by the homophobic morons of the world.
Don’t forget when they follow it up with “This country was founded so we could have freedom of religion! Ya know, freedom to practice Protestant Christianity, specifically!”
This country was founded by ‘Creationalists’: basically atheists. Yes, George Washington was one: that painting of him on his knee praying by his horse was a bit wrong.
The Constitution was written demanding complete separation of Church and State: for a very good reason.
The ‘one nation under God’ was added to the national anthem in the 1950’s.
In other words, this is not a country founded on religion. Just the opposite. It is a country founded on NO religion..so that none would be better than any other.
Being a Wiccan, I don’t think it has entirely worked as planned. But there are a few others feeling the same, so I’m not alone. Btw: Wicca is a recognized U.S. religion as of 1957 (only 500+/- years late counting European time). And 2 years ago we actually got the right to display our religious symbol on our tombstone in the military boneyards.
No, that bit about their religion is entirely and completely wrong. IIRC, the plurality of the Deities were deists (Remember: ‘protestant’ is a pointless distinction when not 10 years ago you were exiling baptists for not being the correct variety of Reformed). Deists are emphatically not atheists. They just don’t believe in an interventionist god. And Deists weren’t the majority either – they were the plurality.
However, they /did/ specifically go out of their way to not enshrine religion. Religious feuds and harmful laws between variants of /protestants/, much less protestants and catholics or ‘Christians’ and other religions, were central int he escape of many. They wanted to avoid sectarian violence, and enshrining Christianity wasn’t possible (If ‘Protestant’ isn’t a meaningful distinction because you hate each other too much, ‘Christian’ is right out). If a religion could be enshrined in law, pretty much everyone would fall all over themselves to kill each other to be that religion – probably literally. Hence the establishment clause.
The British government favored the Anglican Church over all others. One of the goals of the American revolution was to achieve political equality for dissenting churches, though there was debate over whether that should just be for other protestants, for all Christians, or for everyone. When Virginia’s government was debating the the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom in the 1780s Patrick Henry pushed an alternate proposal that would grant Episcopalians, Methodists, Baptists and Presbyterieans co-equal status as the state’s official religions — a last-ditch effort to block the end of state-sponsored religion. To their credit, the Baptists, Methodists, and Presbyterians told him to get stuffed. They were no more interested in being oppressors than they were in being oppressed.
On the cosmological question, atheists believe there is no god. Deists believe in a creator god (or gods) who established the physical laws of the universe but does not intervene — “the divine watchmaker.” Theists believe in a god (or gods) who both created and actively intervene in the universe. While many Revolutionary leaders were deists, that belief was more common among educated elites than it was among the general population. Remember, revolutionary America was only a few decades removed from the “Great Awakening,” a fundamentalist revival movement that produced such works as “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.”
Oh, and the United States is officially and legally “in no way founded on the Christian Religion.” It says so in the Treaty of Tripoli, and treaties are, along with the US Constitution, the supreme law of the land.
It’s also worth noting those deists were the snobby elite the commoners would unite against in hatred. There was probably a self-interested angle in their rejection of a sponsored religion 😀
Though, Britain’s favoring of the Anglican church didn’t really mean a whole lot in the colonies (Rather by design), and didn’t really motivate the Revolution too much compared to greed and entitlement. The biggest religious objection I remember was the colonies getting angry that those stinking papists that ‘they’d’ conquered got to keep their religion (And even that, IIRc, was overshadowed by Canada keeping their court system, which was clearly an insult and meant the english were going to rule over them tyrannically, rather than the british granting the request of the locals).
(Also we’ve basically designed a loophole to allow us to flout the constitution via treaty when we want, and to unilaterally stop. SEe, if a treaty asks for something against the constitution, then the treaty is illegal…)
“Being a Wiccan, I don’t think it has entirely worked as planned.”
Being a member of the dominant religion, I don’t think it has either.
…also I’m not sure the people who make it “dominant” actually share all that much with me in the way of religious beliefs.
Yeah, said unwitting Trump supporter must have been really impressed that he would bring back jobs.
Maybe they thought they meant he would reanimate Steve Jobs?
Different song, I’m pretty sure.
“Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich “
Panel 1: Joyce’s face in this one is so heartbroken and with that stammer at the end. She’s genuinely distressed by this fact and bit of information, because she sees its human cost on the ground and its lack of purpose other than the deliberate shitting on the marginalized.
And that reminds me a lot of HB2, where the law makers convened a special convention and rushed through legislation entirely to make sure that no LGBT received even the slightest protection from discrimination and to demonize trans people wanting to piss.
And I think what she’s most distressed by is that in the days before Becky came out, she might have thought that this sort of vote was a good thing, showing strong moral values. It’d be used to show how “godly” the candidate was and she’d know then that this was a proper tribe member to vote for.
But now she’s seeing the human wreckage of treating people’s lives as a morality play and she’s no longer even able to connect with that former self who would have cheered this bill unthinkingly in the same way that she participated in the Chik fil A support protest with Becky.
Panel 2: That motherfucking RFRA and the bullshit “religious freedom” crap shitty abusive Christian Dominionists pull out to try and give their abject bigotry a sheen of deniability.
No, they’re not passing a bigoted law because they hate a group of people and want them to die, because they see said people as a sign of a fallen world and literal agents of Satan. It’s just because they’re so darn protective of the religious beliefs… of only their particular sect… when said beliefs are the “right” to ruin someone else’s life regardless of their own beliefs.
And that’s such bullshit and Robin’s dodge is bullshit as well and the worst of it all is Leslie in the back. She’s said she’s spent time on the streets homeless and she’s grown up in Indiana. She’s been the disposable child whose life has been treated as less than someone’s religious belief that she is a sinner deserving of death.
And Robin might turn her crank, might speak to her romantic and sexual attraction, but there’s a limit to how little a romantic partner regards you as a human being and I think it’s hitting home hard.
As a former fundamentalist Christian: yeah. It’s really sucky and painful to wake up and realize the way you’ve been raised and the beliefs you’ve internalised are hurtful.
At the time, I didn’t know any of my offline friends were LGBT+, but I was on some level figuring out that I was, and I did know people who were. It made me feel sick and ashamed to think about how the church was telling us our very identity was wrong.
“That motherfucking RFRA and the bullshit ‘religious freedom’ crap shitty abusive Christian Dominionists pull out to try and give their abject bigotry a sheen of deniability.”
Interesting to me that Robin doesn’t even pretend it’s a legitimate belief.
This hits hard. There’s a lot of people/friends of mine who say just because they supported Trump doesn’t mean they are racist, homophobic, etc. But when they say that it’s basically telling me that as a queer POC, they don’t actively have hatred toward me, but they absolutely don’t care about me. I feel this is the same view Robin has, shutting down a whole group of people as so unimportant that their discrimination isn’t even a concern to her.
You can’t support bigotry, bigoted candidates, bigoted laws and not be a bigot.
Like, fine, hate me, try to kill me, but at least have the decency to own it like the neo-nazis I had run-ins with in Denmark. Don’t whine and kvetch about how awful it is that someone recognized racist actions as racist. And so, yeah, fuck that whole Robin mode of looking at the world.
Hypocrisy is worse. It’s much more insidious because it breeds complacency. Basically, even if you weren’t a member of the party, you were a Nazi by default because it was fascist regime. You talked the talk, and walked the walked and let everyone be killed and participated in the killings by a guy you voted into power. The truth of the matter is that Hitler could not have done all thay by himself. He needed people to formulate structures, drive the trucks and the trains, he needed people to out their neighbors – but most of all he needed people to not say shit about what he was doing. That’s a big part of why it got so bad and so far.
It’s bullshit for people to actively vote someone like that and then be “surprised” that he did exactly what he said he would, and even worse is the ones who pretend voting for him means nothing when it means everything to the persecuted. Like no. We don’t all live on a desert island.
What John Scalzi calls the cinemax theory seems appropriate to consider here. Trump sold, overtly, a package including racism and every other form of bigotry; if you bought it (and I’m speaking to the general “you” here), you also paid for the bigotry. Your money (or vote) supports the bigotry. To say you didn’t want the bigotry is irrelevant – you bought and paid for it, and your friends and neighbors will suffer with your support.
And, yeah, you clearly wanted the other (also questionable) parts of the Trump package more than you didn’t want the bigotry, so at best you just didn’t care about people other than you suffering. (Still the general “you”.)
Exactly. It’s like, so what you’re telling me is that you’re an insanely selfish and self centered person. ok, then. Cause that’s all I’m getting out of people that are trying to justify themselves.
It’s too damn reminiscent of my times dealing with gaslighting from family or lovers.
Like, just acknowledge the reality that is. This bullshit thing that has been rife in every conservative campaign, but especially this election where we’re asked to ignore our lying eyes out of “politeness” and act like the calls for our deaths aren’t happening and that a bunch of fascist-voting bigots didn’t just vote for an open Hitler-quoting fascist because they were just THAT scared of teh girl cooties or the idea of non-whites or queer folks existing unharassed and unmurdered?
Nope, spare me that disingenuous shit. Tell me to my face, acknowledge what you have done against me. Own that shit.
I bet it’s not even really unusual, to secretly love someone of the same sex and then have them either spew hate at same-sex love or talk as if homosexual people didn’t matter. Hurtful as hell.
Yeah, I’m reminded of straight trans women I have known who think they’ve found a guy that gets and accepts them and then the asshole goes on a rant about “(slurs for trans women)” or otherwise being horrible about their lover’s humanity.
The heartbreak I see in their eyes when that happens is what I see in Leslie’s eyes.
It’s one thing to have your crush dislike you or not love you back. It’s another to have them not even see you as a person. As not even worthy of humanity. And I think it’s cutting through her romantic attraction like a plasma lance.
Yeah, thought a few there that never got typed. Didn’t realize it till after hitting ‘post’. Never really a good thing when that happens, tends to change the meaning of what I’ve written.
Panel 3: Ugh, discrimination. I was popping up the map of states its legal to discriminate against LGBT folks in and it’s a very solid majority of the country.
And sadly, even the states that have protections don’t have the rigorous enforcement necessary for companies to take it seriously. There are whole swathes of standard practices all designed for the swift identification and removal of queer staff and all sorts of legal chicanery to throw the few lucky trans folks that are able to secure an apartment room back out on the streets to rot.
That last bit I fell afoul of when I was younger and stupidly believed that legal protection from discrimination meant that it wasn’t likely to happen. And that’s in a state where they at least have to pretend. In Indiana and many other states, simply going “I’m going to fire you because you’re a (slur for gay man)” is enough.
And that is intentional. It’s a terrorism to keep us from feeling safe to come out and speak our stories out of fear that we will never work again or have a reliable roof over our heads. It’s about keeping us too afraid to exist in their spheres where they might have to acknowledge that we exist and have as much right to life as them.
This has seemingly taken place in the span of a minute or so, right at the start of class. She may just be trying to avoid moving near/around Robin, for fear of bringing attention to herself.
That’s not how hallucinations work. The fact that someone hallucinating is conscious while having them is we don’t just call them “dreams”.
Presumably, her brain was working differently in other ways, as she couldn’t remember how she did it, though there’s no reason to believe she was delusional or otherwise not in control of her actions.
Though even if she weren’t, “accidentally creating world peace” would still be a significant accomplishment, and a infinitely better one than “not successfully passing a bill that would remove legal protections for LGBT people”.
Robin’s starting to give me Malcom Turnbull vibes – Australia’s latest flavour of the month in the leadership stakes who used to come off as relatively left wing for a politician but currently is playing puppet to the ultraright to stay in power. That is, he doesn’t appear to particularly believe any of the crap he’s doing is good, he’s just doing it because, well, he’s “gotta keep people happy”.
Indiana University is a pocket of liberalism and basic human decency in a sea of Othering and Echo Chamber. Robin is desperate for approval and praise–unused to actually dealing with people who don’t bow at her feet.
Say, Cerb? I know you’re raw and weary following current events, with lots of demands on your time. But I’m trying to organize something that you might be interested in, and even if you’re not you might be networked in with some people who would be interested. (And I’m networked in with, like, nobody.) Can I shoot you an email?
I’m not trying to organize anything, but as the father of a trans child myself I always am eager to hear the life stories of those who made the transition themselves. What to watch for, etc. My son did tell me that someone he talks with in the online community he frequents said that he probably should try to get his legal sex status changed ASAP. Have you done so? If so, how hard was it?
I imagine he’s on whatever Pokemon Go team will do its best at getting his kids to shut up and focus on their electronic boxes while not getting them to play in traffic.
… given that they’re toddlers, probably whichever team has the most shiny lights, flashing colors, and cute noises.
Whadyamean that’s too early for them to play video games? GET THEM WHILE THEY’RE YOUNG!
If it lends credence to your case, that’s how I took it, as non-canon attempt by Robin of a question that doesn’t put her on the spot.
On the other hand, I’m considering taking up the worship of Yog-Sothoth so we can start evacuating people to less shitty dimensions, so I can’t promise my “sense” is fully engaged.
Like, first up, fuck bigots who can’t own their shit. Like, I’ve been emotionally abused in my past, gaslit constantly by a partner who never wanted to own when she hurt me and so found it easier to try and rewrite reality instead to erase the consequences of her actions.
So, bigots who vote away my rights, make it harder for me to survive, fundraise on me being a literal monster, and drive my community to staggering suicide rates while murdering us in the streets like dogs who nonetheless want me to pretend that they don’t actually have anything against trans folks, they just care about (spin the roulette of excuses) “something something, for the children”.
And it’s that failure to own the idea that political beliefs matter, that political actions aren’t just a game of Team Republicans versus Team Democrats, but something that affects real genuine people that is common among the bigots that came out in force for Emperor Rapist.
They want the right to fundraise and morality play about the gays or the blacks or so on… But when we come in bleeding, holding our guts in with our free hand, showing them the places their policies have stuck us like pigs to bleed out and die, they run and hide, denying their dark work, not wanting the credit of their actions.
They want to see us die, for us to die in the gutters out of sight and act like our acts of bleeding in front of them are acts of aggression. Like, how dare you show me the affect of my beliefs and actions. The bodies it produces, the genocides it powers. How dare you make me see that unclean thing as an actual human being just trying their best to stay alive.
And that final turn of phrase by Robin. She knows that this student in particular was nearly gunned down on this campus because one of the types of “loyal voters” Robin is trying to win the votes of so believed the demonizations sold that he hunted his daughter across the state and threatened to shoot anyone who dared interfere with his desire to get her tortured straight*.
*Which resonates a lot because my dad just sent me an email hoping that my likely despair at the election of a man who wants to destroy people like me would be enough to hard sell the “importance of family” and of “coming back home” to be tortured cis again. Years out of contact and he’s still trying every underhanded trick to get me in reparative therapy.
And that hits hard for Leslie, because crush or no, this is becoming a violently unsafe conversation for Joyce and her other students. Where she is just letting them drown in the hate-filled rhetoric of Robin as she doesn’t even bother to own the damage her policies are doing to the folks in the room.
And there’s shame there of putting Joyce who’s been through so much through this all for a silly idea at “seducing the anti-gay politician” to the queer side of the force.
And there’s resonance. I mean, she’s said she’s been the homeless queer youth, abandoned by family and scared before. She’s lived her life having everything she does be that much harder because she likes women instead of men. So to hear Robin speak so uncaringly about her and her life. To treat her suffering so dismissively as if her potential death on the streets would have been no nevermind if it made some bigot in the sticks get a chubby at the thought of it.
And based on her buttoning her blouse and looking away that her crush is dying on the vine that is just how vile Robin’s beliefs are in this universe. Cause, it is very hard to love and lust after someone who doesn’t even view you as a human being worthy of life.
He…he was handed a silver platter, to show some, any, measure of compassion, and that’s what he did? I just don’t have the words, and I’m glad I’ve not talked to my dad in these last few months, because while I’m not in the same place as you, my dad may be the same as yours, and I just don’t have the energy to fight anymore.
Just [Words of Sympathy Here], because I just can’t articulate them now, or possible ever.
My dad is… an impressive piece of work. Escaping him and his efforts to destroy my life to force me cis took a lot of hard work and involved sacrificing things I spent a long time building, but was critical for my survival.
I keep trying to sit here and type out a response relating to what is essentially my realization that my dad ain’t the worst dad out there, and it keeps coming across as about as insensitive as that very clause. I suppose I’ll just take everybody else’s route and say *appropriate gesture of sympathy*.
Nah, that wouldn’t feel insensitive to me. At this point I’ve processed a lot through all the betrayal and pain and I’m more bemused by the transparency of this latest attempt than anything. Like, how stupid do you think I am?
No offense, but fuck your dad. I’ve become the exact opposite regarding my trans child. Talk even a slightly cross word or look at him funny and I start putting on the warpaint. The notion that any parent would be the ones inflicting such pain instead of protecting you from it makes me physically ill.
I do. A little corner of my family who actually stuck by and accepted me without making me jump through endless hoops.
But yeah, people wonder why I have a lot to identify with with Becky. It’s because I too also had to escape an angry violent man who wanted to use any means available to get me “fixed”.
I’m sorry, truly I am. You have been an inspiration and I wish you’d write a book about your experiences because I think they’d be an inspiration to many others. I say that as a writer myself (albeit of silly stories to escape the shitstain that is reality).
I’m trying to analyze Leslie’s expressions in her two panels.
…. I don’t think that’s shame or awkward realization or self-awareness or disappointment. Maybe there’s a smidgeon of those. But I think what we’re seeing is LOSS. That’s the face of her letting her fantasies go and mourning their loss. Sexy-time fantasies, but also fantasies about the shining character of the strong Latina woman, and maybe some wedding bell fantasies too.
At least that’s how I’m interpreting Willis’s art.
Tomorrow: With Robin still in the room, Leslie asks the class to dissect everything she just said in terms of the class content to date.
“It is hard to love […] someone who doesn’t even view you as a human being worthy of life.”
I am soooooo going to steal this and put it up wherever I encounter some of those goddamned white liberals that are trying to preach love and respect these days. Possibly put in “respect” whenever that’s more appropriate.
I wouldn’t say Leslie was a homeless queer youth, especially since what we know is that she was married before she came out. In all likelihood she was a legal adult by the time she came out and was disowned, so she had more control over her own legal documents (unlike poor Becky) and maybe even a driver’s licence and such.
Not saying Leslie’s situation did not suck, but it doesn’t sound like she was a homeless minor like Becky is
Well, disowned by her family, but since she was married before she realized and thus before she came out to her family, she likely wasn’t a homeless teen. She may well have come back to home in the midst of/aftermath of the divorce and not been welcomed and supported, which is bad enough, but still not to the level of homeless teenager.
Panel 5: Dear Bob, I’m so proud of Joyce’s growth and that she’s been able to take her sister’s words to heart, using her anger like a knife, pulling it out when it’s truly needed.
Like, here she’s genuinely angry, fighting a politician that she acknowledges she would have likely voted for, on behalf of her best friend. Spitting venom at the casual dismissal of her best friend’s humanity and the bloodless way bigots try and frame the casual attempt to eliminate the queers.
As if none of the blood of those who starve to death unable to find legal employment or die on the streets of exposure or who kill themselves because the society they live in so little values their existence isn’t on their hands.
That their actions, their policies don’t have that elimination as its purpose.
Panel 6: And Robin trying to run here away from that resonance is critical, because that’s the cowardice of bigots. They want to kill us and still be seen as good people, have the consequences happen out of sight and the blame be… somewhere else.
Like all the fuckers out in force today to try and whitewash the wave of bigotry that brought in Trump, hide the reality of the white supremacy and aggressive patriarchal values that composed entirely of his appeal.
Make it clean and out of sight, with the consequences not happening to “anybody important”.
Like, my community is being decimated right now. My trans siblings killing themselves hand over fist, even more than usual out of fear of how bad the next 4+ years will get for them.
But no one wants to own it, instead hiding behind bullshit “privacy” garbage and of course, the children. Because it’s okay to fuck over someone’s ability to pee or exist or not be fired and driven out in the streets if you can come up with a lie that the mushy moderates will nod thoughtfully at and present as a “debate”.*
*Fuck do I hate the way that my human rights are so many times considered up for debate simply because bigots think they can gain a little power demonizing me and mine as literal demons. And it wears on a person. Always having to defend your right to literally exist… it starts to make you believe you don’t actually have a right to exist. That you must apologize for occupying space and holding mass. That you must scrape and beg for forgiveness and obsequiously thank the dominant groups because for one single solitary second they’re not beating you.
It makes it hard to love yourself and stay alive, unless you’re a spiteful cockroach.
I honestly don’t know what is worse, but my interpretation is that Robin does not actually want to hurt the LGBTQ community. She just does not care. She seems to think that it helps her win the votes of the mouth breathers in the district (one that in reality just elected a real estate mogul who moved here specifically to run for Congress here, whose SuperPAC spending all came from out of state, and beat a local woman who had been active in the community for over a decade). I don’t think she has actually given any thought to what happens to people.
Yeah, I get that vibe too. I think there might also be a faint inkling within her that she might not be 100% straight as well that makes her unwilling to spend much time dwelling on what her anti-LGBT stance actually means as far as the effect on real people.
Full disclosure, I’m in Texas visiting right now and I’m terrified. Cerberus, thank you for being a strong and clear voice for us. Being in public is so much worse than ever before in my lifetime. I honestly don’t know what to do.
It’s a small comfort but I like to think at least half the nation considers him slime and the next generation is mostly against him. It’s my hope that they will eventually displace so future trans and gays and other people “othered” will not have to worry about it–and there’s plenty of people who will stand by them now. I just hope these people will rally around them now.
You’re wrong. You’re, like, demonstrably, provenly, mathematically wrong, unless you think voter suppression reached 25% (I saw a 10% maximum value somewhere).
Half your nation looked at a candidate that they thought was dubious and one that is a self-admitted rapist, con-man, racist, mysogynist, and hatemonger and who managed to make a VP pick that might be even worse than him, and went “meh, whichever.” Stop pretending these people are okay.
Yes, that’s what I said. About 25% voted Clinton, about 25% voted Trump, and, I think it was 46% or thereabouts didn’t vote. For half the nation to consider him slime, voter suppression had to be 25% (adding with Clinton’s 25% to make the half).
A significant part of the country also thinks Clinton is slime, due largely to ~25 years of brutal propaganda. That certainly played a role in dropping turnout.
Hillary’s support of undeclared war, drone strikes, unrestricted spying, and autocratic Presidential exertion of power are all matters of public record. So is the fact she supported devastating economic deals as well as work with autocratic regimes. The former is something no one cared about and will continue under Trump. The latter was true and a major reason why four states which voted for Obama voted for Trump.
It doesn’t justify voting for a walking talking hemorrhoid but it’s not character assassination which turned people against her. They knew, they just had appalling judgement in believing it was worse. Then again, I was of the, “Hillary Clinton was the candidate we had rather than the candidate we wanted.” A very-very Centrist politician like her husband and further to the right than Obama.
You’re replying to someone who said “at least half the country thinks he’s a lime”… there was no mention of voter suppression at all in that. Slightly more than half the country voted for Clinton, so there is no bad math in saying that at least half of us think he’s slime.
Hey Cerberus! I think I’ve said it before but I have a terrible memory for these things and figure repetition won’t hurt: I actively scroll through the comments looking for you. 100% of the time you are insightful and inspiring, and I feel educated by reading your analysis. I doubt there’s anything I can do to help with your troubles, but if I can I will.
Like, it’s take a Cerberus-length post just to say how awesome this is (and since she has already written one I can fart around and make silly jokes instead), but just to add some bullet points:
– She stands up to her parents.
– She takes a stand for Becky again.
– She calls out a leading politician on some very dangerous bullshit.
– She does so in the most polite, most clear, most IRREFUTABLE way. Bill, Signature, Becky. Explain.
– She makes quite a few other people in the room reconsider a few things. Leslie among them.
– There is a journalist in the room.
Yeah, I think it really cut through the thin layer of denialism and romantic attraction Leslie was riding like nothing else. Like, Leslie is a good teacher, she cares about her students, so to see them hurt and in pain because of what she brought into the class?
It’s a necessary wake-up call to her and a reminder that she has dignity and value and does not need to beg for the love of someone who fundamentally doesn’t support her very humanity. That she can do better than something so inherently abusive from the get-go.
It actually has a lot of potential to show what’s going on in politics around them. The dangers and threats to rights. That’s not what she was going for, though. Leslie really seems to have wanted Robin to be a champion for women as one of the highest ranking women in the land but Alt-Right Robin is anything but.
*General McPentagon crashing through the wall* “Just run, Congresswoman. Ruuuuuuuuuun”
Becky, on the other side of campus: “Something mighty interesting just happened in my pants and I don’t know why. It’s not like any of my ten latest attempts at shenanigans managed to get the hat off Dina.”
Running gags are my bread and butter, so I’m glad they are not TOO annoying 🙂
(running gag, heh).
General McPentagon is basically the antrophomorphic personification of reaction shots to badassery, so I assume we will see the good General quite a bit in the following strips.
I feel so bad for Leslie. The little touches of her broken expression and buttoning up her blouse between panel 2 and 4 is just heartbreaking (even Roz noticed). Her crush really is as bad of a person as her policies show and not only is there no way she could reciprocate her feelings, but she views people like Leslie as an acceptable loss. There’s a difference between having a crush say they don’t feel the same and a crush saying people like you don’t matter to me and even though I know my actions will cause bad things to happen to you, it PROBABLY won’t be too bad and it will make all the people who hate the fact that you exist happy and that’s what’s important. Such a statement would hurt anyone deeply regardless of what word you insert in there rather it’s gay, trans, biracial, Muslim, disabled, overweight, or anything that is a big part of who you are physically, mentally, or emotionally.
Bonus: Before clicking, see if you can figure out what score this is just just by looking at this:
Bam! Bam! Ba-bababa-ba
Bam Bam! Ba-bababa-ba
Bam! Bam! Ba-bababa-ba
Ba ba bababa ba!
Certainly -not- team Valor, and she just lost any point of Mystique that still made her potentially attractive to Leslie… And then there is the fact that she is pandering to a base of… well, base Instincts.
I’m not sure if it’s my cynicism coming to the fore again, or just the recent events, but I have a sad feeling that that question would’ve brought more people to the voting booth last Tuesday than the utter violation of rights that Trump ran on.
This is a request for advice to the comment section. Things are rough, do not feel that you are forced to answer.
I have a North American agender friend assigned male at birth who lives in an area very unfriendly to trans people, and probably minorities in general. They do not leave their home without a bulletproof vest on, and feel very unsafe in the community. They do not at present have the option of moving to a less dangerous area.
They have a long history of depression, and it has rapidly become worse in the last six months. Most recently, they have lost sight of the value of attempting to cause change, any change at all, brought on by their inability to change any of the aspects of their life that they feel are the most important.
When they have acted as an ally to other minorities in their state, they have often been mistreated by the people they want to support. Just recently, when they acted as an ally, they were told that “because you are male, any self-expression you make will cause damage to women’s rights.”
I have encouraged them to find something they find meaningful to do and do that. However, I would like to be able to show them Americans fighting against bigotry in a non-bigoted manner, as they only see bigotry criticised by bigots in their daily life. If anyone has any advice to give regarding what works of non-bigots are good reads for beginners, blogs or books or whatever, or just advice about supporting a depressed agender person living in an area that is dangerous to them, I would greatly appreciate it.
Ooh, ouch. Since no one’s written yet, I’ll write even though all I can say is: I wish I had useful advice to give. I hope your friend makes it and finds a good life somehow.
I’m so sorry that your friend is having to go through this. I’m sure Cerberus will come alone and give you a list of resources to help that I’m sure she has because her roll as mentor at the school she teaches at. My reason for commenting is to ask questions about their state of mind. They are in a constant state of danger which is not good on them or their mental health. Are they seeing a therapist and/or on any medication for depression? If not, they need to get in to see a licensed professional as soon as possible. Even if they are under the care of a therapist, they need to talk about increasing frequently of visits and perhaps add a med to use for when they feel especially low in order to stop the tailspin. In a best case scenario, they would be able to save up and move away from the excessively stressful environment which they might eventually be forced to do for the sake of their health anyway.
I take a pill every day for depression but I also have a pill I take when I’m in a panic or a depression spiral (sometimes just once and sometimes for a few days). Added with getting out of a toxic environment, eating better, seeing my therapist, being out (even I can’t be as open as I like), leaning on friends, having pets (they force you out of bed and provide comfort), getting sunshine everyday, and getting a tattoo (to remind me of who I am and what I believe), it helped me to end up much better than I was.
Right now, your friend is in a tailspin getting worse over months and they need professional help to be able to pull out of it. Until that happens, they will have trouble making meaningful progress in their life because their brain is overloaded with too much pain. Seeing the positive will be hard for them. A professional can help with that.
Unfortunately, they have neither a therapist nor medication. They have in the past tried several medications, but these had no positive effects. They also don’t believe a therapist would be able to helm them, believing that anything a therapist could tell them that they should do would be things they already know that they need to do.
Thank you for talking about your personal experienece with this. It does help.
First up, they are wrong, a therapist is very likely to help. I know because I was heavily skeptical and fearful of therapists when I was younger. Now? They kept me alive.
To that end, a great place to start for any general trans-aware health care and access to transition services and trans-aware mental health referrals is their local Planned Parenthood, which might unfortunately be far away depending on where they live and how hard that area has fought against PP’s existence.
Additionally, there are therapist searching tools where you can filter whether or not they are aware of LGBT issues or not and thus likely to be a good fit: https://www.findapsychologist.org/
Additionally for general coping resources, places to reach out, and means of accessing transition steps they feel powerless to change, I heartily recommend the following two blogs:
The former is pretty good at responding to questions and providing directions to resources that are specific to the life experiences of non-binary folks as well as providing a bit of community they can connect with and use to stay alive.
The latter has tons of guides on how to access resources relating to trans care as well as guides on how to survive a hostile world or what feels like hopeless powerless situations.
The former is a really good page to use when the suicidal ideation is overwhelmingly strong and you can’t find your way back. It’s pulled me and friends of mine back over the edge more times than I can say and I pass this along to all of my suicidal students for them to use as a resource.
The latter has an LGBT specific suicide hotline that has had a very good history for my students of being a place they can reach out to that won’t misgender them or belittle their identity while they are seeking support and help in crisis.
For connecting to activism, a good place to start is whatever the nearest city’s queer center is. Googling (city name) queer center is usually a good place to start and those usually have either support group programs, specific causes they are getting actively involved with and can connect people to, and can just at least give them a space where they don’t feel totally alone. Some of those spaces also have dedicated non-binary groups that can be a safe haven for support.
They also will have listings of resources in the area and will likely be a posting place for activist group meetups they can join to channel hopelessness into anger and actions and a feeling that they are doing something against the relentless tide.
For inspiration? It’s not American, but I’ve been drawing a lot from books about the White Rose Society in Germany and reading about the history of groups like ACT-UP or figures like Marsha P Johnson and Sylvia Rivera.
Additionally, documentaries like “How to Survive a Plague” or “Paris is Burning” can help connect them to the history of how queer and trans folks have previously survived and fought back against a hostile world that wanted them dead.
And beyond that to reach out and offer *hugs* and a reminder that sometimes survival is resistance and activism and that every day they exist as themselves is a day that a bigot is dragged kicking and screaming from their ability to drown themselves in their hate. If they cannot hold on out of love for themselves, ask them to hold on for spite, for the pained frustration their refusal to die is causing an army of bigots.
*hugs* Awesome post Cerb. I knew if anyone would have information that would help, you would. We can only hope now that it helps them get through this time in their lives.
At least for me, sometimes just having someone trusted to say things to can help some, even if all the things they’ll tell me are things I already know. But there’s sometimes a tendency to start feeling unnecessarily guilty about “wasting everyone’s time” or being a “downer” or whatever. But a therapist is paid to listen to that, which might help ease that guilt and have someone to talk to at the same time. Of course trusted friends are also important to have and talk to, but the irrational guilt that often accompanies depression (at least in my case) sometimes kicks in anyway.
The trick is that the specific therapist needs to be supportive. I have read that sometimes that can be hard. And it might be discouraging to finally get the energy to try one and find they’re not one of the supportive ones.
What I’ve been saying to myself when things start feeling hopeless, is that any progress is better than no progress. Along the same lines, anything we can do to make things even slightly less worse, is better than if we don’t do it. For this reason, anything that we are able to do is still good and meaningful, even if it is small compared to what needs to be done. Saying this to myself doesn’t always work, because depression and anxiety are jerks like that, but it does sometimes help me.
I’m glad me telling you about my personal experience helped. As far as medications go, I had to try many different ones before I found one that worked for me. Right now I’m on Paxil as my antidepressant and then I use Trazodone (a med originally prescribed for insomnia which they have now found can lower anxiety in some people) as needed for when my anxiety or depression get really bad. I had to try several therapists as well to find on that helps. A lot of my sessions are just spent releasing my anxiety and talking about things that I usually try to hide. And even when she says things that I already know, it helps to hear somebody else say them: an unbiased professional who does not have to lie to me to protect my feelings or out of social obligation. While life will still suck while living in a constant state of fight or flight, they can at least release some of pressure pushing down upon them.
Question: are they sleeping well? Lack of good sleep can not only aggravate depression and anxiety, but be the root cause of them in some people! If they think they are getting 8 hours, it still might be a good idea to get a sleep study especially if they snore. From my personal experience, getting what I needed to sleep better helped me more than I thought it possibly could!
robot-hugs.com is awesome, and written by an agender Canadian. Their comic for today is especially relevant to your friend.
I wish I could do more to help them directly, but some of us are writing our MPs to pressure Canada to accept LGBTQ* Americans as refugees, if that’s any consolation.
ooof I’m really feeling Leslie’s reactions in this comic. Earlier today I saw a (now former) online friend from the UK rejoicing in Trump’s victory because of how it will spite certain groups and laughing at all the people “throwing tantrums” about it.
It’s what finally motivated me to drop them and I spelled out for them exactly how it might affect people like me, who I thought she cared about regarding healthcare. It really hurt seeing that and seeing someone I considered a friend willing to rejoice in something that could potentially take away my access to the medication keeping me alive and potentially take away healthcare for many other people I cared about, let alone other things, comfortably from a place where it would probably never reach them.
I’m aware this sounds really selfish, and yeah I’m disgusted on a lot of other fronts too (Pence is for gay conversion camps….d-do they realize that he’s the kind of person who would want them sent to a conversion camp??)
I chose the healthcare angle because I know it was one angle they would hopefully be able to empathize with if nothing else as it is something that would negatively effect them if they lived here. But yeah there’s a general disgust, but also a personal hurt there when you know they don’t care about people like you and your fears and worries specifically.
I was considering suicide the other night, so….if that’s something they would laugh at? Fuck them.
Honestly half of my problem is the sheer lack of empathy there. With all my healthcare stress and job woes I don’t really have the patience to argue with someone who can’t see why the ACA is important to some people.
It’s not selfish. The fact that other people are getting royally screwed does not, in any way, take from the fact that you are too. Pence’s shock and rape camps don’t make the stated intent of mass deportations and repealing the ACA any less hideous.
And good on you for dropping that person. Pity it wasn’t from the top of the London Tower.
I guess I was worried it would sound like I only cared about that one thing when really honestly it’s the only real danger a Trump presidency has for me. I’m an adult 11 years past the age of consent for my state and living independently at the moment so I can’t really be forced into a conversion camp against my will And I’m white so I feel I can’t really claim any worry about deportation. I don’t like to claim to be part of a group I’m not.
I am glad that “was considering” is in the past tense, but I know “feeling better” is not an instant switch either. Please continue to hold on. I know we don’t “actually know each other” or whatever, but I care anyway. Anything we can do, no matter how small, to make things less worse, is better than not doing it. And survival is also a resistance, and an important one, especially when their goal is to ensure that we can’t.
I’m cool now but I thank you for your concern *hugs* I feel I should mention that I was up hella late at the time so lack of sleep probably factored into my state. I’m prone to severe mood swings so I’ve gotten to the point where I can pinpoint when I’m in a drastic state of mind and do something not self destructive about it. Unfortunatley my healthcare costs are a recurring wound that keeps cropping up. I need to work with my aunt who used to be a social worker to help me get some disability.
I agree with you though. Right now the best reaction is to take care of and look out for each other in times like these.
I’ve had people who’ve bullied me and I’m still here, so I’m going to keep doing that. If we can stand strong and help each other we’ll survive even people want us gone
Yeah. I mean in the past few days I’ve even seen people who reluctantly voted for Trump showing concern about the people who are scared and upset. This person was just laughing at them all like they were watching a reality show.
I guess that’s what finally made it click that I should give up hoping I could positively influence them and change their mind.
I was a member of an internet group of mostly oldsters and all we really did was share music. It was nice, and one of the least hurtful threads I’d seen in a while. Then the election came.
Two days later, the new theme for the days was “haha, look at these crybaby liberals!!” And it wasn’t one or two bad elements – this was a mod generated thread that everyone participated on. Everything was about “illegals”, or “the Whining Generation”, “SJW’s”; they were gloating like this was some sports game they won.
So I made a post calling them out on how hypocritically mean-spirited this was. I pointed out that these people were honestly scared, and for good reason. All I got in response was “cry more you whining liberal! go run to mexico!” before the mod banned me.
…I was really upset at first but, in retrospect, I’m glad. Those people were all awful bigots and they didn’t start just because Trump got elected. People now feel comfortable enough to let their terribleness fly free, which means its just easier than ever to figure out who’s an asshole and avoid them. Now I’m not upset cause they did that; I’m upset cause I spent months wasting my awesome taste in music on racist, homophobic, ageist geriatrics.
Yeah…that seems to be the case. Leaving/being ousted is the most painful part but after it happens and you look back you realize that leaving was the best thing for you.
When I was young and desperate for people’s validation I used to believe that being banned from any place was the worst thing that could happen. But I think I’ve learned now that some places you’re better off banned from.
If Joyce could research Robin with her phone during class in the few moments she had after typing with Joe, Leslie could and should have found out about Robin’s activities and voting when cyberstalking her. (After all, she even went physically stalking her.)
Ok, Robin’s attempt at justifying her activities did make her stance sink in, deeply. But then Robin is established as an airhead except when hyperfocussed, which is when and how she could land in the office.
Okay but also the thing that bothers me the most about what Robin’s saying is that she seems to want Joyce to be happy with her assertion that Becky would “probably” be okay.
Lady, if there was even a slight chance that my best friend would be denied jobs, be homeless/poor/unemployed, be stuck in an unsafe family, or even die because of some stupid bill you signed? That won’t be forgiven.
Robin seems to have some elements of sociopathy about her personality. She can’t understand why anyone would care about anyone else so long as they are okay and don’t have to personally witness injustice.
Are you starting to realise that your plan of having Leslie trying to seduce Robin for the sake of creating a political scandal was rather half-baked? Because I don’t think this scene was your intention all along; you too look too surprised by the current developments for that to be the case.
Are you getting genuinely hurt for Leslie’s sake? Are you thinking that maybe trying to use other humans as pawns for your own schemes might not actually have been the best idea?
Are you surprised and impressed by Joyce who is now asking the exact right questions one should ask of Robin? Will you perhaps have a more positive attitude to Joyce in the future?
Are you still somewhat surprised that your sister would say the things she says in this particular environment? You know that she’ll say these things when she’s among “her own”, but is this the first time you’ve seen her facing real opposition to her actions, exposing the real consequences of them; and -still- trying to incompetently justify it?
Even Roz might have been caught off guard by Robin’s levels of shittyness. Someone linked a strip the other day when she was setting this up with Leslie that had her saying that Robin had a good heart. Hey, look, you were wrong.
Hey, no need to get smug about Roz here. Leslie already wanted to plow that until next July. She had ulterior motives, but it’s not like she’s done much besides put them in the same place – which Leslie wanted anyway.
Eh, being a bit harsh on Roz honestly. Leslie is an adult who knew /full well/ what Roz was doing right from the start when they first discussed it all those comics ago. Roz failed to pull the wool over her eyes.
Leslie just I feel… compartmentalised her crush as it were. But she still went in with her eyes open and now has to face up to what is reality she already knew: Robin is awful. Robin helps people like her die. People worse off than her die. Roz and Leslie both knew on some level what she was. Honestly the only one totally caught unawares in this whole idea was Robin herself- and she’s utterly despicable in what she does and arguably anything- be it taking her down or changing her is a potentially worthy goal, assuming her opponent isn’t worse. (Which I doubt.)
Roz if anything had too a high of opinion/was too optimistic/naive about her sister ever changing so easily. Or the system. Whichever works. It was also a remarkably silly plan on Roz’s part but… nah the only ‘pawn’ is Robin who deserves to be sacrificed if anything. So nah, I don’t think Roz deserves much hatred here at all. Robin deserves to be hated 100%.
I do think she’ll be impressed by Joyce who by the way also stated she needed someone to be a little mean sometimes to Roz herself /shrugs/
If anything a part of me can only sympathies with Roz more. She’s still (probably?) straight so it’s not as personal this particular loathsome homophobic part even if she has friends who aren’t:
but she really tries and does care and- this is the /thing/ she’s related to. How exhausting must that be. The fact she perhaps can’t utterly despise such a loathsome creature means Roz is more optimistic than I could be. Or maybe it’s actually a bad thing. Idk. It probably is a potential level of nativity which can hurt folks.
I think Roz perhaps will or should apologise: Leslie still hurt and she got the ball rolling on that. But Leslie was fully awar and could have woken up at any time: and didn’t. Leslie if anything put her students at risk too by doing this. If I was to fault Roz in anything else, perhaps both she and Leslie should have thought on the wisdom of all this after the whole Toe dad situation. But I more put that fault on Leslie’s shoulders as she is the teacher. It was her responsibility in the end and she failed.
Which happens. People are human. And they fail. But she failed in a really big way and Leslie herself should also apologies to her other students after this. Leslie however has been punished enough emotionally in this strip so I can’t muster up much anger at her.
Though in retrospect one thing I seemed to forget in typing up all this word vomit is that this plan of Roz’s could result in Robin being outed. And while I have utterly no sympathy for Robin as a character herself nor if she was a living breathing person, that kind of thing can set a bad precedent for what it can do to other people. Like that’s there’s this line you can cross and it’s okay to out you and put you in danger. I mean /arguably/ if such a line even exists, Robin crossed and shat on it: but the thing is that line ends up being set by the person with the power that is the personal knowledge and information in question and we can’t always trust people to make the right call. I mean then even the smallest slight can result in that.
So yeah further contributing to a culture where tactically outing someone is okay isn’t a good idea for wider society, even if in the short term Robin gets screwed over and deserves it.
The fact that /Leslie/ didn’t even look at this is frankly wild in of itself. But I feel Roz should have known. So she aint squeaky clean either.
Hiya, long time reader, first time poster here. I love your work, but I have kind of an important message, if you don’t mind me taking a second to spam it here.
Trump has promised to repeal the Affordable Care Act, but there are people who are sick and can’t pay for their own treatment. If the insurers drop them, they’re SCREWED.
Here, I look at this:
If you really want to make America great, tell Trump not to let people die by ripping away their health insurance. Please, if enough people do this, he’ll LISTEN to us. I don’t have your follower base on Twitter or social media to get the message out, but you could let people know. Please, please, PLEASE. Tell everyone you can.
Yes, another question; Robin did answer Joyce’s question after all. The answer, in summary, was: “I supported the bill because it keeps me in my nice, cosy sinecure and, besides, no-one that I care about enough to personify was likely to be hurt so why should I have cared about the outcome?”
In the end, the Yamato was a floating antique – a relic of a bygone age of naval warfare that no longer had any relevance to the facts of the modern era. I think that pretty much defines RobLie in DoA – No longer matches up with the facts.
Hey, remember when automating the factories was going to keep us all in a life of leisure? No one (or practically no one) would need to work anymore, as the machines did our jobs for us?
I think those optimistic scifi writers of yesteryear probably figured that the income would still be spread around to the average person, rather than the owners going, “Look, all this money and now I don’t have to share it by paying workers!”
Hah, and I thought I couldn’t be any more depressed today. Oh look. Well done, me.
Remind me again why the average American seems to regard socialism as a bad thing? 🙁
Do you know, if the 1% were taxed at even a reasonable level, we could probably support everyone at say a minimum of $60,000 annual income? Like, top up whatever you do (or don’t) earn to that level, and if you earn more, great?
Sad to think that the only thing stopping us from that is greed, isn’t it?
Can I go back to about 1993, please? I liked it better there.
Yeah. And it’s not even like we haven’t been through this before.
We’re not all working dawn to dusk on subsistence level farming. That’s a good thing.
We’re not all working 60 to 80 hours a week in the factories and mines. That’s a good thing.
We need to make the same kind of adjustment again. We’ve dealt with improvements in technology making less work necessary before. We’ve dealt with the greed before. We need to do it again. That’s all. It’s that simple.
And that hard. All of those transitions were hard fought victories.
Oh. Oh hells. I just realised something. This arc is probably going to end with Robin making some sort of invitation to Leslie and she miserably refusing. It’s probably even going to get us a more shattered Leslie-face than panel 4. Start padding the heart for all the feels.
Joyce’s face in the second to last panel is so much beautiful righteous anger.
Leslie sadly buttoning up and probably hating herself a little is… just very well-drawn.
Robin is actually a really accurate take on the attitude I’ve seen from several people post-election; somehow, convinced that hateful violent policy won’t lead to any actual violence. As if you can coo at bigots that their hatred and fear is justified, shrug apologetically at their targets, and then have no blood on your hands when the first group feels encouraged to hurt the second.
The problem with that phrase is that it implies that there human beings who *are* important.
But then, she hasn’t studied astronomy yet, so may be she doesn’t realize that people – and the Earth, the Solar system, and the Milky Way galaxy – aren’t important.
The fact that we’re all tiny specs of dust in the cosmic scheme of things doesn’t mean there’s no value or importance there. Only that it’s incredibly foolish to hold yourself to be important compared to other people.
It’s a reason to be compassionate and humble, not a reason to care about nothing.
Actually, since only humans can give things meaning (God excluded) that means that humans are the MOST important things in the universe. Rocks don’t care.
On the topic of Trump… I am terrified for my queer and POC US ian friends.
In less than a week, 4 ppl I know have been assaulted and two disowned. I am sick at heart.
If any of you need help, please tell me if it is something I can fix. For my part, I have decided to get more active in local and federal politics here in Canada to try to prevent us from following the fascist trend. Kelly Leitch is a rising threat for our next election – if she has her way, we’ll be dealing with Trump 2.0 in four years.
I imagine that “mourn the dead and fight like hell for the living” is going to be a lot of people’s motto for the next few years.
Yeah. I can’t in good conscience give even $15 to those assholes, so instead I am going to spend my time volunteering with my party and trying to push electoral reform to get rid of FPTP.
You know, I think that’s what I’ve been using as well, just never was able to put it to words. Just now I tried to think of what other characters sound good like, and couldn’t come up with any. Though I did recall the thought experiment where Danny didn’t exist, ala Garfield without Garfield.
Poor Leslie. She is without a doubt one of the best human beings in DoA and to have to listen to that shit come from someone she likes…ugghh. No wonder Roz is “passionate” she’s trying to fight and undo a lot of the terrible things her own sister stands for.
She brings up an interesting point that was also made in house of cards (the Kremlin on gay rights)
A president is supposed to be a representative of their people. What if the people are somewhat backward? Where is the line between mouthpiece and force of change?
Loading ...
this session’s still doing better than if Trump was there
Alt-Text Robin: “I’m with the Enlightened!”
Alt-Text Kyle: “wrong Niantic game”
I know this is probably going to get me banned, but I know this site is a liberal hot spot (and I mean that as a compliment), and I just want to get this out to as many people as possible, so please follow this link! It’s a list of petitions regarding the electoral college, and I believe our last hope at stopping Trump. I know this is probably going to get me banned, but I know this site is a liberal hot spot (and I mean that as a compliment), and I just want to get this out to as many people as possible, so please follow this link! It’s a list of petitions regarding the electoral college, and I believe our last hope at stopping Trump. I know this is probably going to get me banned, but I know this site is a liberal hot spot (and I mean that as a compliment), and I just want to get this out to as many people as possible, so please follow this link! It’s a list of petitions regarding the electoral college, and I believe our last hope at stopping Trump.
I know this is probably going to get me banned, but I know this site is a liberal hot spot (and I mean that as a compliment), and I just want to get this out to as many people as possible, so please follow this link! It’s a list of petitions regarding the electoral college, and I believe our last hope at stopping Trump.
Just ignore the frantic link pile from copying one too many times.
First instinct?
I’m Mystic, but I feel like Joyce wouldn’t be, because a) it sounds pagan and b) evolution. Because she still has THOSE biases, unless I’ve lost track of how much she’s grown, which I may well have.
If she played, Instinct. It’s about what you value, and for Joyce that’s not strength or intellect, it’s doing what feels right.
Robin would obviously have to pick Valor since it’s red.
Pokemon evolution isn’t exactly the same as species evolution. Like any similarities at all.
Never stopped fundies from getting pissed about it.
Why do I have absolutely no trouble picturing Robin playing Pokemon Go? Her aide trying to bring something important to her attention, only to be met with, “Not now, I’m trying to catch a Haunter!”
Of course she was with the enlightened, damned frogs!!!
Robin was aware that what she did was bad, and she has no defense. She just doesn’t care.
That’s… probably better than outright malice and also actively insulting/threatening Joyce.
It is the don’t cares that allow the evil to exist. They are the ones that get to ignore the harm caused by others and feel good about themselves, because they didn’t do it. No playing that it wasn’t malice just doesn’t cut it, it is still evil and causes harm. This is why we have trump on his way to the White House. The don’t cares supporting evil.
You think Trump is Valor or Instinct?
I’ve heard it that Valor is Gryffindor OR Slytherin based on your personality, so… Valor?
(supposedly Instinct is the Hufflepuff)
Based on colors, Valor is Gryffindor, Mystic is Ravenclaw, and Instinct is Hufflepuff.
Smooth Leslie
Lady boner done been killed, I see.
R.I.P., lady boner :'(
That button up was faster than trump getting kicked outta office.
Hope springs eternal.
Watching your entire demographic getting thrown under the bus of political expediency does tend to kill erections.
Did she just use the Force to button up her blouse?
Why else do you think Roz is staring at her?
You mean Roz hasn’t been staring at her chest the whole time? :glances back: You SURE?
There really should be a sound effect for that.
This will be remembered as the day Joyce became Batman!
Hell to the no on that.
Joyce is -far better- than Batman today.
Is that opinion? Or Edict? Or Proclamation? Or are you speaking with The Voice? B’ Cause you seem very sure of it. And I would respectfully like to disagree, but I think you’r right.
AG speaks The Voice in Dark Blue. Joyce speaking The Voice should be Ice Blue (like her eyes, right now)
Is it sad that I assume many politicians see it this way?
no. it’s sad that that assumption is probably true.
Would you prefer to assume they actually think gays don’t deserve equal rights?
Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! Let’s instead assume that they feel obliged to follow God’s law, with no autonomy or choice in the matter of how they treat gays, and they can’t even have their own emotional opinion on the subject! But they’d feel bad about being forced by their faith to persecute gays if they were allowed to!
Except for Leviticus when it comes to stoning etc.. But everything else is absolutely true.
Many of them don’t. They say as much, in fact, and use it as a key rallying point for their supporters.
Sure, and I think that’s way sadder. I’ll take indifference over active persecution any day.
At least with indifference, you can be subversive much more easily.
Its probably better in terms of results. Not sure its better ethically.
If someones about to be hit by a car, and you could warn them but deliberately choose not too, your as guilty of murder as the driver as far as I see.
Inaction/action doesn’t make much difference. (provided its a conscious choice not to act)
When it’s a matter of indifference, if you can convince enough other people to support equality the politicians will see which way the wind is blowing and jump on the bandwagon. With active hostility, they’ll fight you to the bitter end.
So yeah, I’d rather have the indifferent politicians doing this for political convenience than have those same elected officials be true believers in persecution.
Which is why Trump for all the horror that he is, is still less dangerous than Pence. Pence is a true believer, which makes the idea of him being one heartbeat away from the presidency, the most scary thing imaginable.
I’d rather have them for practical reasons, but… I don’t think I can like them better.
Malice I can understand. Complete lack of empathy is the one thing I can’t empathize with.
We’ll see what happens when Trump picks his cabinet.
So far, the signs for indifference aren’t hopeful.
so far his picks are each more horrifying than the one before it.
I’d probably be a terrible politician, because my motto would be “Vote for me: I don’t care about anything.”
It wouldn’t be *true*, but who said you had to *keep* your campaign promises?
Like the vice president?
Pence has previously proposed criminalizing homosexual marriage.
Yes. Criminalizing.
So that’s why they say you never discus religion and politics with friends.
I wonder what Roz is thinking, please tell me she doesn’t make the wrong decision and butt in
She’d probably side with joyce given her free sex stance and attempted help to leslie on her goal to woh robin.
Also because Joyce is saying things she agrees with
She’s probably thinking, “NOOOO My scandal! My precious, beautiful lesbian scandal, RUINED!! Why must you RUIN EVERYTHING, big sis!!”
I like to think Roz has a LITTLE more compassion with that. Maybe it’s how it started out, but I have trouble thinking that Roz’s agenda is still her #1 priority after seeing Leslie’s face and reaction.
“I gotta keep people happy. Not gays, mind. People.”
And it’s also sad that this implies that the majority of people who vote in her district feel that way as well. Why couldn’t they be just anti-‘Pat Lee’? That’d only hurt, like what, one person?
There’s a phrase that continually crops up in all debates about the efficacy of democracy: “The tyranny of the majority”.
This leads to one of the arguments for strong central government in The Federalist Papers — that tyrannical special interests are more likely to get majorities in smaller political bodies (states, towns, that sort of thing) and persecute targeted groups. In larger bodies there are more interests represented and it’s harder for those special interests to get stable control — to many conflicting interests that have to negotiate power-sharing agreements.
In theory though, the flip side of that is that if the tyrannical special interests do get control of the strong central government, they get to control everybody.
The electoral college was, in fact, constructed to prevent the Tyranny of the majority.
God, Leslie looks haunted. And good on Joyce (and Dorothy!), poking all the holes in this!
Notice she put Jillian and Holtzmann away. Crush ended.
She magically buttoned her blouse up a bit more between panels two and four.
[Insert Joke About Start Of A Bad Habit Here]
You know, I didn’t notice this until you pointed it out, but her hand is still there after finishing rebuttoning her blouse in panel 4.
And Roz noticed.
Why was she trying to set up Leslie and Robin, again?
Precisely because of shit like this.
She was hoping Leslie could get through to Robin where she could not.
Or she simply wanted to get at Robin? I don’t see much sibling love there.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/twerp/
Robin obviously infuriates the hell out of her (and rightly so), but Roz seems to think she’s capable of changing. I’d say it could be both, but I think better of Roz than to drag Leslie into it just to mess with her sister.
I think she hoped either that or if Robin turned out to be an intractably awful person it could at least produce a career ending scandal.
What’s more, Roz noticed.
Damnit Reltzik. 🙁
Let’s just call it a double-take. I noticed the first notice and you noticed the second notice.
I think Roz noticed…
Good on Joyce. Dorothy joined in much later.
Joyce glares into the soul of Robin, it will only take 2 more seconds to do the Ultimate Soul Destruction Black Technique~. It will be glorious.
I’d settle for a Penance Stare there…
No finish what you started.
If there’s a silver lining here, Joyce DID just out Becky as homeless to Leslie in the last strip, so maybe Leslie taking Becky in and under her gay, gay wing could be on the horizon.
Awww, man. I really liked Shortpacked Robin.
As noted yesterday, since sexual orientation carries over from Shortpacked to Dumbverse, this Robin is also “undefinably queer” – which makes today’s comic incredibly tragic on basically all levels.
SP!Robin wasn’t really aware of her queerness before her relationship with Leslie. As she stated, she thought herself straight, at first, but made ‘an exception’ for Leslie. Only later, did she acknowledge herself as queer. This Robin has never had her ‘inner closet’ opened.
What’s a /little/ funny is how much she also wanted to bang Amber for a long time, culminating in her and Leslie sexually assaulting her with make outs (IIRC, it’s been a minute).
She still loudly insisted how straight she was while lusting for two seperate girls. It’s kind of impressive. Reminds me of an allegedly straight girl who insisted to me that men were ugly and unattractive, but you have to sleep with them, because that’s just how it is. No other choices, like those incredibly beautiful and attractive girls you see around.
This being why I say it’s a /little/ funny. Because it’s also tragic.
Did you tell her she could just… not? Because that was also an option.
Look, I’m doing it right now!
Did I tell her, or did I get her to actually understand that?
Because those are different things, sadly.
So did I, despite S.P. Robins’ shortcomings, she wasn’t sleezy. Just a bit weird and irresponsible.
Upsetting. Far too apt considering the American political climate. Willis, though I am frustrated, props to you for making your characters so realistic and robust. But also, damn you Willis. This hurts. But really, it’s not your fault. It’s just what’s going on today in the wake of it all.
Man, I should go back to my emo days and start writing songs!
Panel 4 is unsettlingly familiar after the past couple of days. I have heard way too damn many people saying nothing bad’s going to happen in the next four years, while at the same time I see a steady stream of horror stories on Facebook about bad things that are already happening. I just hope I have the strength to be Joyce here.
By the way, I saw a thing suggesting that anyone willing to be a “safe person”–running interference for anyone who needs protection from bigots, or just being there for emotional support–signify it with a safety pin on their shirt. I think I’m going to start doing it.
I’m down with that.
Yeah, that part infuriates me. Like, motherfucker, you do not get to piss on my face and say it’s raining. Half this country voted specifically on the promise of fucking up the lives of me, my friends, my family out of hatred and spite, voting for a literal fascist if it could make me and mine’s lives worse than theirs.
And yet, the fuckers who voted literally for a system that will fuck the marginalized in every way imaginable still want to be seen as good people despite that. To be patted on the head and assured they aren’t actually so racist and sexist that they voted a rapist who regularly quote neo-nazis into the highest office in the land.
No, I’m sorry, you don’t get to pretend that this is all a game and that your actions don’t fuck with my life. That this is some dispassionate system of points rather than the system of governance that controls all our lives.
Hugs?
That’s what’s kept me feeling sick for the last two days. I saw a breakdown earlier that puts the actual Trump voters as only a quarter of the country, so that was a small comfort, but that still means three-quarters of the country (minus the people who got screwed by the voting rights act being gutted, which I’m sure wasn’t insignificant) either agrees with him, or didn’t care enough about LGBT people, people of color, women, disabled people, to drag their butts to the polls.
I don’t have any words left for it. I can’t believe this is a real thing that’s happening. Any moment I’m going to wake up and it’s going to be a horrible nightmare.
A lot of them are like my grandmother. Hate the guy, but held their noses and voted for him anyway because twenty some years of propaganda has convinced them Hillary Clinton is the antichrist.
A friend of mine is like that.
I was about to make a correction, but the correction didn’t really make it that much better, so the only thing I’d achieve is to look pedantic at the worst fucking possible moment.
Fuck it all.
What was it? Promise I won’t think less of you, I want to be sure I have my facts straight.
almost half the country didn’t vote, Shiro. that alone should tell you something significant.
They also didn’t vote against him, is my point. I’m not accusing them of being bigoted, exactly–just that they didn’t care that a violently racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic yam person was up for election to the highest office in the land.
No, not the half who didn’t vote, but the other quarter who actively voted against, for exactly those reasons are being included in the 75% number.
Doesn’t really make the point any better, though. The fact that enough people voted in favor of him to get him into office at all is horrible.
Actually, I’m stupid, nevermind. I thought I had something, but I was wrong. You’re right.
Geez, that’s more depressing than I realized.
No, I’m talking about the 50% that didn’t vote at all, and the 25% that actively voted for him. That’s my three-quarters figure. (I’m simplifying and disregarding the third party voters for the moment, of course it’s not precisely 25-50-25.)
Whoops, should’ve reloaded before I hit post. You’re good! I thought for a second my math was catastrophically wrong, it was never my best class.
Yeah I realized my mistake and what you were actually saying.
That not unusual. Generally, 50% or more of the public doesn’t vote in any election.
So that’s not really a factor in Trump’s ascendancy.
It kind of is. This election had record low turnout.
Both Trump and Clinton had fewer votes than the *losing* candidates in previous elections.
This one was a bit unique, though. Not voting was… really bad.
Maybe something about voter percentage that didn’t vote for Trump?
“Only” half the country did not bother to vote against him because of his racism, sexism, incompetence, etc.
Like I said, it doesn’t really make that much difference, does it?
Yeah… :/ I don’t know how we arrived here. I mean, I’ve read the analyses, but I can’t wrap my brain around it.
In your defense, having to think about those facts will infuriate any half-decent person to the point where it’s impossible to keep anything straight.
Cold comfort I know, but America isn’t the only country going down the far right pseudo fascist path. The U.K. and Australia are already there. Right now in Aus the government is talking loudly about repealing a section (18c) of the discrimination act which basically prohibits hate speech. In the words of our Attorney General “People have the right to be a bigot.”. And this, along with hideous laws about refugees are cheered by a vocal minority which is much larger than anyone wants to admit.
I weep for the future, and the horrors before civility and common sense reassert themselves.
They never do. That’s the fucking shame of it all, is civility and common sense never actually reassert themselves.
It’s a trash fucking species and why I’ve always laughed at “robots take over world” being considered a horror story.
I’m actually going to make an argument against that point.
In blue states, any votes after the one that caused Hillary to win the state didn’t count. In deep red states, flipping them is exceedingly unlikely.
Someone not turning out in a blue state or a deep red state because they know Hillary could win is different from someone not turning out in, say, a swing state.
Maybe it’s thin comfort, but it was only a quarter of the country, not half. Only half of all eligible voters even bothered to vote, meaning he got a quarter of the vote, not half.
I know, it’s not the best comfort, but maybe it’s something.
It still means that fully half the country, even if it didn’t actually vote for him, didn’t think him bad enough to bother to go out and vote against him.
How many of that remaining half who didn’t vote weren’t actually able to, by the way? Disenfranchised or in prison or what? (and you have no idea how horrified I was to learn that a prior conviction meant your voting rights were stripped away forever! WTF?!) Was it a significant portion?
And how many of those people were unable to make it to the polls because they had to work and would have lost their job if they took time off to go and vote? I hear that that’s a thing too…
I actually hope that I’m wrong about that…
Some states have laws requiring employees to give employees time of to vote but it varies.
Most states have laws saying they have to let you have time off to vote but if you are barely able to pay your bills can you really afford to lose a day’s pay? Some people can’t afford to go vote.
That’s still half the vote.
And more importantly, that means that 50% share Robin’s lack of compassion here.
*claps*
Cerberus, I have read your posts and admired them.
However, I think you are going overboard on this one, or perhaps just focusing too narrowly.
Half of the country did not vote specifically to fuck us over. They voted for change, to get the assholes out who have been screwing over the system for years on end. Of course, that is most of them, unfortunately. But many of them just genuinely wanted a change for the better for our country. Their jobs back, and a stop to the death of the middle class in this country. Their view is too narrow also.
I did not vote for him because I do not think he is the man for the job: he is too bigoted, racist, and likely dangerous. And I liked Hillary, I still think she’d be a good President: but great, but good.
However, Trump is the damned President Elect of this country now: and we have him for the next 4 years, if he dosn’t give himself a heart attack from all the paranoia.
Here is what I am worried about at this point:
1. He has his own little army around him, well armed and equiped. This has to be disbanded. Dictators have their own armies of loyal guards, U.S. presidents do not.
2. He refused to allow the press to accompany him to the White House today, this is a tradition. As a business man he could do that and likely had to because of the need for secrecy in patents and designs. However, he can not and MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO THIS. The press are the watchdogs of the politicians. And I damn well hope they start acting like it.
3. Trump has been invited to the EU conference as soon as he can get there: I shudder to think of what he is going to do to our European allies ties and especially England. However, his only strong suit may be his financial knowledge and this is a banking conference so..maybe he will not embarrass us too much.
4. Russia is gearing up (and has been) for war. Putin is thinking of Trump as an ally. This is not a good thing. Russia changed sides in the middle of WWII. Understandable in the line of self-preservation: but not so much as a dependable ally. Putin is no ones ally but his own.
5. Trump said he would ‘remove’ Palistine and Isriel is already celebrating that. Trump is moving around forces there he does not understand.
6. He has said he is going to let Japan support themselves, protect themselves. He does not understand the importance to the U.S. safety of our alliance withJapan, with regard to that area of the world: China, Korea, etc.
7. Mexico is one of our biggest buyers. What is going to happen there – any guesses?
It is not we marginalized who are the only ones in trouble here. Understand that well. The entire US is in trouble.
I have to wish him well, he is our President Elect and wishing him evil does nothing for any of us. I hope he succeeds in steering the US on the course that does the least harm to all of us and maybe even some good. But I am afraid.
And I am so sorry that you and yours have it so stinking hard. I wish I could help you.
All I can do is stand up for my friends. And I do try.
Cerberus is not going overboard. If anything, given the other very real problems you point out, Cerberus is not going far enough.
Suppose that there are people who voted for Trump who were, as you say, not specifically voting specifically to fuck us over.
To be as thorough as possible with the initial enumeration of possibilities, even if to an unreasonable extent, either they didn’t think *not* fucking us over was important enough to vote *against*, or they somehow didn’t know.
The second of these seems extremely improbable. He campaigned entirely on bigotry. Every time he talked about “change” was directly in the context of fucking over some already-marginalized group or other. And then, just in case we missed one of the bigotries among all the others, he chose a VP who specifically tried to fund literal torture camps for LGBT+.
Someone shared this, I think yesterday, but I think it is a surprisingly good analogy. http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/11/10/the-cinemax-theory-of-racism/
Those other things are definitely all also problems, but even if “technically” true, saying they didn’t vote “specifically” to fuck over (insert just about any marginalized group here), doesn’t actually make them any less complicit, and also sounds very very very much like a “Not all…” argument.
All those things you said are definitely also very big problems. I notice that probably half of them are also rooted in fucking over people who are marginalized.
We have a *very long* list of problems, overall. We need to be extra careful that our attempts at avoiding the literal apocalypses don’t let us “forget” the slightly lesser atrocities that also very very urgently need our attention. We can’t *all* spend all our energy on the apocalypses or we will still continue to lose far too much.
And in many cases “focusing too narrowly” is useful, when it means literal survival. I currently have the privilege of passing (though I’m beginning to see that the cost may be too great for me to continue this) but Cerberus does not. She has been too visible to be able to go back into hiding, even if she wanted to. And she has already had several very close calls (which she has mentioned in comment threads on this site many times). And she has already seen from the ground that it is already getting worse. Losing anyone to this crap would be terrible. It would. But losing Cerberus in particular would also mean losing many whose continued survival hinges heavily on her continued work. We probably do have at least two literal apocalypses on our hands, which we definitely need to get to much faster work averting, but we can’t do a thing about it if we die to “lesser” dangers before that. Even if her worries look like “focusing too narrowly”, I think we can excuse her of that. I think it is precisely what we need her to be doing.
Sorry, that ‘voted for change’ narrative is complete bullshit – almost as complete bullshit as ‘economic anxiety’.
If any of the people voting for Trump and Co wanted change, they wouldn’t have voted for the incumbent Congress. They put the same assholes they say they didn’t want in power back in power.
They didn’t vote for change. They voted for hatred and bigotry, plain and simple.
And no one at my school cares, other than to joke about it.
Man, I’m feeling this so hard.
I care. *hugs*
jfc this.
Like, okay, we found out today that the head of Mr. Trump’s domestic-policy transition team is a guy named Ken Blackwell. You may not know who that is, but holy crow he’s bad news.
Basically, he’s high up with the Family Research Council, an all-out no-holds-barred hate/lobbying group aimed right at LGBT people. I fought these guys for years; they’re evil. (They supported the states outlawing us directly; they served as a manufacturing point for fake ‘studies’ asserting… basically anything they could come up with that makes LGBT people look like monsters and demons; and so on. If there’s a way to hate LGBT people, they’re on it.)
The FRC had a lot of influence on the GOP platform this year, and is preparing a list of executive orders for Mr. Trump to execute in his first hundred days. We know they’ll be acted upon, because they’re on the Trump team. And they include several actions, such as allowing health care providers to refuse care to LGBT people, and so on.
They’re also carrying water for NOM, the anti-marriage-rights National Organisation for Marriage, who are “confident” they’ll be able to work with the Trump administration to overturn marriage rights.
None of this is hypothetical. It’s stuff they’re setting up right the fuck now. And it’s aimed directly at me and mine.
There is a song from The Mikado that I should look up.
This one.
And we’re B.
Excellent choice.
That was some fast blouse buttoning.
She’s definitely on the yellow team. Those bastards.
I bet your’e on the red or blue team asswipe!
Everyone, please! There’s no need to fight!
We all know Team Rocket is the only real team.
I like to think that Pokemon Go is a thrilling commentary on U.S politics, with Red begin republicans, Blue being democrats and Yellow being Independents.
Dangit, you just turned me into a Republican, you jerk.
Bite your tongue. Candela is pure and sweet and would never be a Republican! 🙂
I’m on Team Instinct because I am on Team It Made My Kid Feel Loved and Supported. Team My Kid for the win.
Hey now. I don’t think any of the leaders would be Republicans. For one, free healthcare.
Team Valor is too good and too gay to be Republican you fool
Looking through archives.. Look at Mike’s hair… Look at Trump’s hair.
I just realized what the real world version of Mike’s hair would look like after all these years.
Of course if Mike was running for President his slogan wouldn’t be “Let’s America great again.” It would be “I’m going to make America a living hell, but you’ll vote for me anyway,” and would probably work.
Well I mean from a lot of people’s perspective that’s pretty much what Trump’s campaign was, just followed with “because a living hell is fantastic and you love the idea.”
Well, they mostly heard it as “I’m going to make America a living hell for them.”
I would prefer Mike as a president over Trump.
Surely there must be better choices…
Yes, Mike puts a lot of thought into what he does.
Robin, Roooobin, Raw-been, robin robin robin
ROBIN, NO
Burn in hell, Robin.
seconded
Thirded.
Don’t let up, Joyce. Robin needs to see the damage she and her ilk cause.
Yup. Let’s keep the religious people happy by oppression and encouraging bigotry against minorities especially people who are LGBTQ+ because they make up such a tiny portion of the population that they don’t matter at all! *head desk*
Sadly, the way the USA political system is setup, politicians have zero external motivations to take people like me into consideration. At least until we get enough allies in the bigger demographics that they can’t ignore the issue anymore. Its a system setup to ignore minority groups.
I know. It’s so frustrating and exhausting and sickening. I just want to wake up tomorrow and find that evolution spontaneously occurred while I slept and everyone realized that this is all we get and we need to protect each other and our planet. I thought it was getting better for a lot of groups until our recent election and now I’m back to being scared for all of us especially those who can’t pass or blend in.
I’m not sure if you’ve been reading the posts from the last few days but I’m a disabled cis female polysexual Caucasian atheist democrat with a couple visible tattoos who lives in a red state in the bible belt in a small town full of Christians and bigots. I can hide a lot about myself if I have to, but I did that for far too much of my life. I don’t think anyone should have to hide if they are part of the LGBTQ+ rainbow or aren’t christian anymore than someone should have to hide their ethnicity. I wish the world was different than it currently is.
Can you get out of the bible belt? I’m sure you’ve thought of this already, but it sounds like a really worthy goal.
Oh believe me, I’ve thought about it, but my dad needs me so I put up with all the mega Christians and the bigots. At least most of them when they discover I’m an atheist only go into a speech about how sorry they feel for me and then try to throw some bible stuff at me to hopefully make me think so I can “find my way back to god” although I have gotten more extreme stuff like someone accusing me of worshiping the devil and being in the illuminati. The polysexual thing gets weird reactions. I usually say bi as I’ve learned my lesson trying to explain genders to people here. Some freak out. Some ask me if I’ve ever been with a woman and then proceed to tell me that I’m not really bi as I haven’t (I’ve only ever dated one person and that was a guy for 7 years) or that I’ve “chosen” because I dated a guy. Expressing interest in a woman on tv or something gets shut down real quick as disgusting or don’t want to hear it territory. I had one woman tell me that she’s never met a bi person that wasn’t a whore and a slut. I’ve had people try to convince me that appreciation for the same sex is normal but it doesn’t make me bi and that even having sex with a woman wouldn’t mean I was bi because a lot of people try things. My ex went between finding it hot and trying to get me to say stuff for his personal gratification to being paranoid I was going to leave him for a woman (nope. He left me for one). I’ve been asked about threesomes like it’s the only way someone like me could enjoy sex. I’ve been asked if I was abused as a child. I’ve gotten bible quotes. It’s odd. I would hate to think how it would be if I advertised it openly.
This is a country where the majority rule. I think the frightening thing is that Robin typifies the average politician. I used to feel minorities were targeted by most of them. But now I think the average one is like Robin….they just don’t THINK of minorities in any way shape or form. Marginalized citizens are just not on their radar.
Is this right? No. But how to solve it? You can’t make people who’ve never ‘been there’ understand. You can just hope to make them think.
Well they /are/ ‘minorities’ as in there’s less of them than the majority. So in certain areas in politics it probably makes ‘sense’ not to think of them as important, because while there are certain districts where more of the majority actually, y’known, think of said minorities as human beings and perhaps care a little and think barring them from jobs etc is monstrous, they really don’t /have/ to to get through their lives. So some in the majority just don’t. They are perhaps completely uncaring, passive in the face of it (I believe in terms of race MLK talked about the white moderate- same thing probably- and Joyce /prior/ to all this bs would have been like that)- or they take an active role in hating them and hurting them (Toe dad). The wider result is the same though when it comes to how they vote.
It’s a toss up, and politicians positions sometimes depends on the majority groups waking up.
Politicians are, often, less that grand leader leading and inspiring people to their sparkling vision, and sometimes more like that pandering little kid in high school following the crowd and trying to be one of the first of what seems to be ‘in season’ and be popular with those who cast their votes in the bid to be noticed and liked. I mean on some level I get it: their very jobs depend on it. But they of course throw people under the bus completely in their bid for the homecoming queen crown. So my sympathy kind of dies there: they could have chosen a different career or path. Either they really do believe it as right and they’re rotten to the very core of their very being, or they don’t and they’re weak in character: and the results are the same.
Its kind of despicable really how much basic human decency can depend on popular opinion. That the blocking of basic human rights and dignity is based on stuff like that. But well… it affects a ‘minority’ and the majority probably think it won’t affect anyone they care about- (even as say their sibling/kid/niece/nephew/grandkid is unusually subdued as they speak for /some/ reason and too afraid to speak…) And some stop caring for said people if it does come to light anyway and they gather up the courage, rather than changing their mind. Or ‘care’ in horrifying ways in their bid to ‘fix’ them so they won’t have to actually care o think on what they’ve done. Or perhaps even wave them off as being ‘selfish’ themselves!
Some in the majority will change. Some never, ever will. It’s kind of a mistake to let civil rights be down to popular vote either way. I mean correct me if I’m wrong on this, but mixed race marriages themselves if left to popular vote in the US wouldn’t have been legalised the time it did if it was: right? It might have been increasing in popularity by then but I do think more were against then for at the time. And while it’s hardly sunshine and roses now- it is more normalised, even when there were people quoting scripture that it was ‘wrong’ and probably whined it forced ‘good god fearing christians’ to do things ‘against their moral standing’ or ‘religious freedom’ at the time.
A lot of it is that there are real problems in this world – economic and geopolitical – that make everyone’s lives worse. Unfortunately, the politicians don’t know the solution to those, so they try to distract their constituents and create support through social demagoguery, be it racial or anything else.
The problem is that they’re basically not smart enough to foresee the most likely consequences of this. That’s why, when the bullets, stones and Molotov cocktails start flying, their reaction is shock, surprise and condemnation of the ‘extremists’ whom they had incited.
“This is a country where the majority rule.”
That’s a nice slogan, but this is the second time in 16 years someone has won the white house with fewer popular votes than his main opponent. There are a whole bunch of issues where opinion polls show clear majorities of the citizens on one side and legislatures on the other, and the legislatures keep on getting reelected. Democratic candidates for the House of Representatives got more votes nationally than Republican candidates did in 2012, but Republicans maintained a significant majority in congress because of gerrymandering. In Virginia Democrats got more votes and Republicans won 8 seats to the Democrats’ 3. A court-ordered redistricting led to one Democratic pick-up this year. Democrats won statewide again, but Republicans have a 7-4 edge in our House delegation now.
So, “majority rules” sounds nice, but the reality doesn’t live up to the slogan.
To them, every time LGBTQ pop up in the news, TV, books, etc, it feels like we’re all around them, oppressing them from every angle. Every time a law is passed protecting LGBTQ from discrimination, it’s another sign that America cares more about them than the “normals.”
(psst Willis you forgot to add Dorothy’s name to the tags)
And yeah, Leslie’s really looking like she’s starting to regret her crush. Inspiring trailblazer or not, Robin’s politics are still, well… yeah.
Leslie might be rethinking her crush.
I really hope she is.
You two just have the best gravatars for this XD
Well, you don’t 🙁
I doubt it.
“Rethinking” implies she thought it through the first time.
So she’s thinking her crush?
Robin’s words are causing Leslie’s libido to shut down, allowing her brain to function.
Instead of having a crush, Leslie now looks crushed.
Good. You can’t think with your upper head, you deserve the emotional pain.
Looking like Leslie’s got a new thing she’s gonna want retconned next time she gets a new continuity.
One of two things, at least.
What interests me is how relevant this comic is, given that it’s on a buffer, so this strip was written some time ago.
Hauntingly relevant, in fact.
[Insert Trite Joke I Normally Make About That Here]
NOT TRITE ENOUGH
Well the [Insert X] Gag can only go so far…
The awful never really changes. It just gets worse so that last quarter’s satire seems like this quarter’s status quo and next quarter’s subtle understatement.
That’s her conscience winning in the background there.
“Infringe on their religious freedoms” my ass. People just can’t stand that they’re no longer allowed to FORCE Christianity on people. Although, with our new VP-elect, that may very well become the case once again.
At this point the only way we can manage not to infringe on their religious freedoms is to let them infringe on ours.
Yeah, their entire argument is “If my religion isn’t in charge then I’m being oppressed!” Like, no. Quit disrespecting people who experience(d) actual persecution with your whining. I saw a discussion between two people in which the Trump voter was arguing that it wasn’t fair to be oh-so-hurtful to her because omg didn’t you know that Christians legitimately feared Hillary just as much as Muslims fear Trump? I didn’t catch the conversation live, but the Clinton voter fortunately wasn’t having any of that nonsense. Being too polite, I thought, but firm. Still, I was so angry. So angry. Ma’am, you are a liar. Nobody is that bad at risk assessment. Even if that woman listened entirely to right-wing news, she had to know that Hillary is a Christian (even if not the “right kind”) and that Trump had suggested keeping Muslims out of the country. (I mean, I guess she could have been one of those Obama and Clinton are literally demons people, but based on the actual conversation, I doubt it.) The naked hate makes me scared and sad, but mendacity rooted in privilege is making me even angrier than it usually does this week.
Well put.
“Your freedom to swing a fist ends where my face begins.”
“Your freedom to have a face ends where my fist swings,” more like.
But this was her favorite question last strip! What changed?
Human decency?
But how can I trust her if she doesn’t stick to her guns?
You get who you vote for?
Nope, that’s not true, if it was I’d be celebrating one of the most historic landmark moments in American history instead of looking into feasible ways to move to Canada. (Sorry, I know I started the thread but goddamned I’m bummed right now)
Right, so you get who the Electoral College voted for? (I’m still in shock over all of it, too)
Why Canada? Why not Mexico? I’m serious; I see all of these people who really object to Trump’s comments about Mexicans, but when it comes time to pick a country, none of them actually want to live in the one with Mexicans. For someone reason they pick one that’s actually even whiter than the US. (Canada is about 86% white.) I really and truly don’t understand.
PS: I like Mexico. Mexicans are nice people and the weather is great.
It’s not such a mystery. USA, Canada, England, and Australia are all largely English-speaking. Those are places most people go between without taking it upon themselves to learn a new language.
Also, if you go further south, the spiders get bigger
nooooo thank you
Thanks for answering! I learned Spanish in school, so I had assumed that everyone learned it. (What language did you guys learn?) Spanish is a great language if you ever do decide to learn it–the spelling is much more sensible than English spelling. 🙂
Also, if you ever do visit Mexico, lots of people there speak English/there are plenty of accommodations for English-speaking people, especially in the heavily ex-pat areas. And the people are really great.
You know, I was just researching this (Inspired by your response) and it turns out that there are a whole bunch of countries where people speak English! Maybe not the majority of people, but it’s the official langague in countries throughout the former British empire.
Ah, now I am dreaming of visiting India. 🙂 🙂 🙂 Thank you for the inspiration!
I took two years of Spanish in high school, and have retained virtually none of it. We never even got to conversational level; we were memorizing words but not speaking the language.
On the subject of fleeing the country screaming, I wouldn’t head south for several reasons – besides not knowing the language, Mexico is a lot further away from where I am, and I’ve lived in vegas and hated the heat. And perhaps most importantly I have no tolerance for spicy food at all. I literally can’t eat authentic mexican food. I suspect Canada would be more tolerable on that front.
Not that I’m leaving, mind you. Other people are more imperiled than me – other than being liberal and an atheist, I tick off all the ‘safe’ boxes. Plus moving would involve, you know, moving. I’ll put that off as long as possible.
Well, for me, it’s simple: I don’t speak Spanish, and I like poutine.
For me, it’s because I have family in Canada but not Mexico, and I can speak French but not Spanish.
I can’t speak for everyone, though.
I’ve always had a deep respect for Canada. It’s one of the most peaceful and compassionate countries in the world, there’s no death penalty, far stricter gun laws, and their prison population is a fraction of America’s. They have universal health care, which I firmly believe should be a basic human right, a strong focus on education, and a political climate that far better aligns with my personal beliefs. And honestly, America as a country really seems to care about proving it’s better then everyone else (which I think is so toxic), and it seems like Canada just wants to be good.
To be perfectly frank living in Canada for at least a little while is something I’ve always wanted to do, and now with America as it is…honestly if this what the country wants for their leader, then I want nothing to do with this country, so why not at least try to go to a place I’ve admired for a long time.
By the way, I HATE warm weather. I absolutely hate it. Snow is one of my absolute favorite things in the world and the fact Canada is so cold is a selling point all on it’s own for me.
Well, snow is pretty. 🙂
I respect that you like Canadian culture/government, just as I like Mexico. I suspect that most of the people who would like to move to Canada also like Canadian culture/government, and would prefer that the US be more like Canada.
But there is an irony here, at least if we are talking about people who want to move as a result of this election. They don’t want to live among Mexicans or be part of Mexican culture. They want to be part of one of the whitest countries on earth. But they also turn around and criticize people who say they don’t want Mexican immigration to the US.
This is the part I don’t understand. I can understand liking Canada–a friend moved there from Pakistan, and she absolutely loves it there. I can understand loving Mexico–I have many friends who live there and love it. But I don’t understand the American political dynamic here.
(Yes, I understand the language issue, but I know lots of people who don’t speak Japanese but still want to move to Japan. It’s not that hard to learn a language if you love the culture. Besides, there are tons of English-speaking countries that aren’t majority white, like Kenya and India–I would love to visit India someday–so only speaking English isn’t as big a barrier as people make it out to be.)
I don’t have a problem with mexican people, as far as I know – to my knowledge I’ve never spoken to one. However I have no tolerance for mexican *food*. No spice tolerance at all. If that makes me a racist, so be it.
Also, I don’t really want to be a part of anybody’s culture, mexican or otherwise. I just want to mind my own business. Is that so wrong?
Anon, that shouldn’t be a mystery either. An American not wanting to move to Mexico, and insisting Mexicans be allowed to move to US, is only inconsistent if you imagine them as trying to plan out the ethnicity of their neighborhood.
But both are an expression of the same principle, that people should live where they want. This is especially so because when people like Trump talk about Mexicans, they are not talking about people coming into the US, but people who are already there.
There are good reasons someone who doesn’t want to move south still wouldn’t want to round up thousands of people into camps and try sending them away from their homes. Previous efforts have involved great cruelty and even fatalities. Is it really ironic someone could like Canada and still oppose that?
Trump’s treatment of Mexican immigrants is wildly racist, you don’t need to love Mexico or even like Mexico to speak out against that. You can hate everything about Mexican culture and still think Mexicans deserve to be treated like human beings. I’m guess what I’m saying is not wanting to be a part their culture isn’t the same as not respecting it. I completely respect Mexican culture, and I admire many of the ideals it stands for, but at the same time it holds no appeal to me on a personal level. That doesn’t mean I think it’s bad or lesser then my culture, it just means it’s not what I’m looking for. I can feel that way and still think it’s a culture worth protecting and fighting for.
Besides Trump’s rampant racism towards Mexican immigrants is only ONE of the reasons people want to leave because of the election. Trump has also demonstrated incredible sexism, Islamophobia, homophobia, and basically every other form of prejudice it’s possible to have. Hell even setting aside political differences, the fact of matter is it’s no longer safe to be someone who isn’t a straight white male in this country.
Well, after experiencing northern Alberta winters for many, many years now, I have to say yes, snow is nice, temperatures so cold being outside more than thirty seconds being life threatening, not so much.
I think part of it is that Canada is often considered “America lite”, culturally more similar to the USA (minus the guns), in part due to the huge shared border (and most of our population being concentrated along said border).
Although one thing that does/did amuse me, as a Canadian, was the number of right-leaning people threatening to move to Canada because of Obama in the previous two elections. I mean, even WITH the Harper government at the time – we are generally more left-leaning than anything Obama wanted to accomplish (universal healthcare,
strictergun laws, etc). It’s like seeing a wild-fire approaching, and deciding you’d be safer jumping into an active volcano.As an aside; If you truly love Canada (and all it stands for) and wish to move here – I wish you the best of luck in pursuing the proper legal arrangements for doing so. But if you are -just- running from Trump and his ilk, I sympathize, but: I beg you to stay put if you can. He scares us too, and if you all move up here, who’s left to vote him out next time around?
Because Canada has an /extremely/ similar culture (It’s even just as provincial!) and they speak the majority language (as long as they don’t move to quebec). Heck, I don’t speak enough spanish to be comfortable living in Mexico.
As a heads up to those who don’t speak French, New Brunswick also has a high French-speaking population. When we drove across Canada a few years ago, I barely got to use my high school French in Quebec, but I definitely had to pull it out for New Brunswick.
For Americans looking to flee Trump, I’d recommend Ontario (great tax breaks), or one of the Prairie provinces (although perhaps not Alberta, there’s a lot of others looking for jobs thanks for Fort Mac burning down; but Saskatchewan is looking for people, I believe, and Manitoba probably is too), or BC. The Lower Mainland section of BC is ridiculously expensive to live in, but there are a lot of small towns with reasonable rent etc.
“I learned Spanish in school, so I had assumed that everyone learned it. (What language did you guys learn?) ”
My school offered French, German, Latin, and Spanish. It added Russian my senior year. I took Latin and German, but I think French was the most popular choice. I know French and Spanish were both more popular choices than German or Latin to fulfill the foreign language requirement.
Of my older siblings, who all started high school before we moved to the place I matriculated, I think 3 took Spanish and 2 French. Might have been 4 Spanish and 1 French. I don’t think the high school in my original home town offered German or Latin. I know my brother in law’s high school in New Mexico only offered French and Spanish.
I learned Spanish, got A’s… forgot most of it though.
Latin and Russian. One’s extinct in the wild, the other is just a shortcut to where we’re already going.
Japanese, later. But even after seven years, I’m basically an illiterate barbarian.
I, for one, would welcome my new Canadian Overlords. I like maple syrup, and snow.
God damn it Robin. I was holding out hope for you. Face your shame and stop being so awful.
Well, Robin is sounding less like Trump and more like a Trump supporter now.
Which is…
…um…
…basically just a sidegrade.
And on another note…
Ugh, “advances will infringe on religious freedom”. Easily the biggest pile of bullshit ever spewed by the homophobic morons of the world.
Trump expy ended up being a bit too spot on, huh? So, good writing then?
Indeed.
“You’re infringing on my right to express my religion by forcing it on others!”
“You don’t actually have a right to do that”
“OPPRESSOR!”
Don’t forget when they follow it up with “This country was founded so we could have freedom of religion! Ya know, freedom to practice Protestant Christianity, specifically!”
This country was founded by ‘Creationalists’: basically atheists. Yes, George Washington was one: that painting of him on his knee praying by his horse was a bit wrong.
The Constitution was written demanding complete separation of Church and State: for a very good reason.
The ‘one nation under God’ was added to the national anthem in the 1950’s.
In other words, this is not a country founded on religion. Just the opposite. It is a country founded on NO religion..so that none would be better than any other.
Being a Wiccan, I don’t think it has entirely worked as planned. But there are a few others feeling the same, so I’m not alone. Btw: Wicca is a recognized U.S. religion as of 1957 (only 500+/- years late counting European time). And 2 years ago we actually got the right to display our religious symbol on our tombstone in the military boneyards.
No, that bit about their religion is entirely and completely wrong. IIRC, the plurality of the Deities were deists (Remember: ‘protestant’ is a pointless distinction when not 10 years ago you were exiling baptists for not being the correct variety of Reformed). Deists are emphatically not atheists. They just don’t believe in an interventionist god. And Deists weren’t the majority either – they were the plurality.
However, they /did/ specifically go out of their way to not enshrine religion. Religious feuds and harmful laws between variants of /protestants/, much less protestants and catholics or ‘Christians’ and other religions, were central int he escape of many. They wanted to avoid sectarian violence, and enshrining Christianity wasn’t possible (If ‘Protestant’ isn’t a meaningful distinction because you hate each other too much, ‘Christian’ is right out). If a religion could be enshrined in law, pretty much everyone would fall all over themselves to kill each other to be that religion – probably literally. Hence the establishment clause.
The British government favored the Anglican Church over all others. One of the goals of the American revolution was to achieve political equality for dissenting churches, though there was debate over whether that should just be for other protestants, for all Christians, or for everyone. When Virginia’s government was debating the the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom in the 1780s Patrick Henry pushed an alternate proposal that would grant Episcopalians, Methodists, Baptists and Presbyterieans co-equal status as the state’s official religions — a last-ditch effort to block the end of state-sponsored religion. To their credit, the Baptists, Methodists, and Presbyterians told him to get stuffed. They were no more interested in being oppressors than they were in being oppressed.
On the cosmological question, atheists believe there is no god. Deists believe in a creator god (or gods) who established the physical laws of the universe but does not intervene — “the divine watchmaker.” Theists believe in a god (or gods) who both created and actively intervene in the universe. While many Revolutionary leaders were deists, that belief was more common among educated elites than it was among the general population. Remember, revolutionary America was only a few decades removed from the “Great Awakening,” a fundamentalist revival movement that produced such works as “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.”
Oh, and the United States is officially and legally “in no way founded on the Christian Religion.” It says so in the Treaty of Tripoli, and treaties are, along with the US Constitution, the supreme law of the land.
It’s also worth noting those deists were the snobby elite the commoners would unite against in hatred. There was probably a self-interested angle in their rejection of a sponsored religion 😀
Though, Britain’s favoring of the Anglican church didn’t really mean a whole lot in the colonies (Rather by design), and didn’t really motivate the Revolution too much compared to greed and entitlement. The biggest religious objection I remember was the colonies getting angry that those stinking papists that ‘they’d’ conquered got to keep their religion (And even that, IIRc, was overshadowed by Canada keeping their court system, which was clearly an insult and meant the english were going to rule over them tyrannically, rather than the british granting the request of the locals).
(Also we’ve basically designed a loophole to allow us to flout the constitution via treaty when we want, and to unilaterally stop. SEe, if a treaty asks for something against the constitution, then the treaty is illegal…)
“Being a Wiccan, I don’t think it has entirely worked as planned.”
Being a member of the dominant religion, I don’t think it has either.
…also I’m not sure the people who make it “dominant” actually share all that much with me in the way of religious beliefs.
I mean, I guess it’s possible some of his supporters only got their information from FOX News and don’t realize how bigoted he is
I mean, you have to hope there are some who supported him for reasons other than his message of bigotry
…i guess if they heard his speeches ever, it’d be pretty hard to justify support though
Yeah, it could’ve been because of… uh… well there was the…
…did he say anything else? Did he give any reasons?
“bring back jobs” ??
and… no, I think the other one was pretty well and solidly based in bigotry too
Yeah, said unwitting Trump supporter must have been really impressed that he would bring back jobs.
Maybe they thought they meant he would reanimate Steve Jobs?
in reality, though, some people will literally just ignore the news and vote for the person who has the right letter on the ballot
I love angry Joyce. And Robin…. I just can’t.
Angry Joyce is about to injure a congresswoman, also, is that tomorrow’s strip?
And there goes the cleavage…
[u.u]: Not like it was going anywhere to begin with…
At least here…
Any Leonard Cohen lovers out there? Asking because it sucks to have these feels alone.
Many people are in desperate need of a hallelujah now, more than ever, arguably.
I’m not a superfan, but I have to note the passing of the songwriter of “Suzanne” with sorrow.
Bowie, Prince, Cohen.
Ain’t got no words, ‘cos we so often relied on theirs.
Yes. Suzanne, Closing Time, Everybody Knows…
This was also the guy who wrote “I’ve seen the future – it’s murder.”
While we’re talking about musicians, let me mention Fred Small. His song Face At the Window is about to become very relevant. http://www.songlyrics.com/fred-small/face-at-the-window-lyrics/ TRIGGER WARNINGS
I like Everybody Knows by the Dixie Chicks, don’t suppose it’s a cover or something?
Different song, I’m pretty sure.
“Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich “
Yeah. Got to see his last tour in NY a few years back. Damn. One more shitty thing in a shitty year.
And Jillian and Holtzmann go into hiding…
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: Joyce’s face in this one is so heartbroken and with that stammer at the end. She’s genuinely distressed by this fact and bit of information, because she sees its human cost on the ground and its lack of purpose other than the deliberate shitting on the marginalized.
And that reminds me a lot of HB2, where the law makers convened a special convention and rushed through legislation entirely to make sure that no LGBT received even the slightest protection from discrimination and to demonize trans people wanting to piss.
And I think what she’s most distressed by is that in the days before Becky came out, she might have thought that this sort of vote was a good thing, showing strong moral values. It’d be used to show how “godly” the candidate was and she’d know then that this was a proper tribe member to vote for.
But now she’s seeing the human wreckage of treating people’s lives as a morality play and she’s no longer even able to connect with that former self who would have cheered this bill unthinkingly in the same way that she participated in the Chik fil A support protest with Becky.
Panel 2: That motherfucking RFRA and the bullshit “religious freedom” crap shitty abusive Christian Dominionists pull out to try and give their abject bigotry a sheen of deniability.
No, they’re not passing a bigoted law because they hate a group of people and want them to die, because they see said people as a sign of a fallen world and literal agents of Satan. It’s just because they’re so darn protective of the religious beliefs… of only their particular sect… when said beliefs are the “right” to ruin someone else’s life regardless of their own beliefs.
And that’s such bullshit and Robin’s dodge is bullshit as well and the worst of it all is Leslie in the back. She’s said she’s spent time on the streets homeless and she’s grown up in Indiana. She’s been the disposable child whose life has been treated as less than someone’s religious belief that she is a sinner deserving of death.
And Robin might turn her crank, might speak to her romantic and sexual attraction, but there’s a limit to how little a romantic partner regards you as a human being and I think it’s hitting home hard.
wait when did we get confirmation that Lesley ever spent time homeless? that seems like an important detail
Iirc, her family reacted very badly to her coming out, but I can’t remember specifics.
She implies that she had to spend a period of time on her own with a hint of some of it being on the streets here:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/faithbased/
But nothing concrete, just some very strong hints.
Yeah, is directly painful to watch Leslie. It is FUN to have the hotz for someone. I like Leslie, she should have fun…. but the price is to high.
As a former fundamentalist Christian: yeah. It’s really sucky and painful to wake up and realize the way you’ve been raised and the beliefs you’ve internalised are hurtful.
At the time, I didn’t know any of my offline friends were LGBT+, but I was on some level figuring out that I was, and I did know people who were. It made me feel sick and ashamed to think about how the church was telling us our very identity was wrong.
“That motherfucking RFRA and the bullshit ‘religious freedom’ crap shitty abusive Christian Dominionists pull out to try and give their abject bigotry a sheen of deniability.”
Interesting to me that Robin doesn’t even pretend it’s a legitimate belief.
This hits hard. There’s a lot of people/friends of mine who say just because they supported Trump doesn’t mean they are racist, homophobic, etc. But when they say that it’s basically telling me that as a queer POC, they don’t actively have hatred toward me, but they absolutely don’t care about me. I feel this is the same view Robin has, shutting down a whole group of people as so unimportant that their discrimination isn’t even a concern to her.
Fuck those people.
You can’t support bigotry, bigoted candidates, bigoted laws and not be a bigot.
Like, fine, hate me, try to kill me, but at least have the decency to own it like the neo-nazis I had run-ins with in Denmark. Don’t whine and kvetch about how awful it is that someone recognized racist actions as racist. And so, yeah, fuck that whole Robin mode of looking at the world.
*hugs*
I’m not sure hypocrisy is worse than active Nazism. Then again, it doesn’t matter why you voted–just that you did.
I prefer honest Nazis. It’s easier to protect yourself when you can see them coming.
Hypocrisy is worse. It’s much more insidious because it breeds complacency. Basically, even if you weren’t a member of the party, you were a Nazi by default because it was fascist regime. You talked the talk, and walked the walked and let everyone be killed and participated in the killings by a guy you voted into power. The truth of the matter is that Hitler could not have done all thay by himself. He needed people to formulate structures, drive the trucks and the trains, he needed people to out their neighbors – but most of all he needed people to not say shit about what he was doing. That’s a big part of why it got so bad and so far.
It’s bullshit for people to actively vote someone like that and then be “surprised” that he did exactly what he said he would, and even worse is the ones who pretend voting for him means nothing when it means everything to the persecuted. Like no. We don’t all live on a desert island.
What John Scalzi calls the cinemax theory seems appropriate to consider here. Trump sold, overtly, a package including racism and every other form of bigotry; if you bought it (and I’m speaking to the general “you” here), you also paid for the bigotry. Your money (or vote) supports the bigotry. To say you didn’t want the bigotry is irrelevant – you bought and paid for it, and your friends and neighbors will suffer with your support.
And, yeah, you clearly wanted the other (also questionable) parts of the Trump package more than you didn’t want the bigotry, so at best you just didn’t care about people other than you suffering. (Still the general “you”.)
Exactly. It’s like, so what you’re telling me is that you’re an insanely selfish and self centered person. ok, then. Cause that’s all I’m getting out of people that are trying to justify themselves.
It’s too damn reminiscent of my times dealing with gaslighting from family or lovers.
Like, just acknowledge the reality that is. This bullshit thing that has been rife in every conservative campaign, but especially this election where we’re asked to ignore our lying eyes out of “politeness” and act like the calls for our deaths aren’t happening and that a bunch of fascist-voting bigots didn’t just vote for an open Hitler-quoting fascist because they were just THAT scared of teh girl cooties or the idea of non-whites or queer folks existing unharassed and unmurdered?
Nope, spare me that disingenuous shit. Tell me to my face, acknowledge what you have done against me. Own that shit.
Poor, poor Leslie. 🙁
I bet it’s not even really unusual, to secretly love someone of the same sex and then have them either spew hate at same-sex love or talk as if homosexual people didn’t matter. Hurtful as hell.
Yeah, I’m reminded of straight trans women I have known who think they’ve found a guy that gets and accepts them and then the asshole goes on a rant about “(slurs for trans women)” or otherwise being horrible about their lover’s humanity.
The heartbreak I see in their eyes when that happens is what I see in Leslie’s eyes.
It’s one thing to have your crush dislike you or not love you back. It’s another to have them not even see you as a person. As not even worthy of humanity. And I think it’s cutting through her romantic attraction like a plasma lance.
Yeah. If Robin/Leslie ends up happening, it’s going to be a much more unpleasant road than I imagined.
Probably should’ve expected that
ship SUNK!
How soon is it to liken it to the Titanic?
I would say in the general area of “too”, Orion. Too soon. Give it another strip or two.
Yeah, thought a few there that never got typed. Didn’t realize it till after hitting ‘post’. Never really a good thing when that happens, tends to change the meaning of what I’ve written.
If ends up becoming a ghost ship, Leslie’s gonna need to get those busters back out
I really want to give Leslie a hug right now. She just looks so dejected!
Panel 3: Ugh, discrimination. I was popping up the map of states its legal to discriminate against LGBT folks in and it’s a very solid majority of the country.
And sadly, even the states that have protections don’t have the rigorous enforcement necessary for companies to take it seriously. There are whole swathes of standard practices all designed for the swift identification and removal of queer staff and all sorts of legal chicanery to throw the few lucky trans folks that are able to secure an apartment room back out on the streets to rot.
That last bit I fell afoul of when I was younger and stupidly believed that legal protection from discrimination meant that it wasn’t likely to happen. And that’s in a state where they at least have to pretend. In Indiana and many other states, simply going “I’m going to fire you because you’re a (slur for gay man)” is enough.
And that is intentional. It’s a terrorism to keep us from feeling safe to come out and speak our stories out of fear that we will never work again or have a reliable roof over our heads. It’s about keeping us too afraid to exist in their spheres where they might have to acknowledge that we exist and have as much right to life as them.
Such unnecessary hatred.
Ugh, yeah, that’s horrible.
So, like, is Roz just gonna spend the whole class standing up front or what?
This has seemingly taken place in the span of a minute or so, right at the start of class. She may just be trying to avoid moving near/around Robin, for fear of bringing attention to herself.
I’m kind of pleased to see that Robin is kind of a crappy congressperson in both universes. 😀
Be nice if it was just ‘wacky’ crappy, and not ‘at minimum passive bigoted’ crappy, though.
In the other one she was just kinda half-assed except when she actually brought about world peace for a while.
This one is considerably worse.
She brought about actual utopia in Shortpacked, which is about as far from “crappy” as it is possible to get :p
if i remember correctly though, wasnt that while on a hallucinogenic sugar rush?
Yes, but it actually happened. Other characters acknowledged it, unlike the imaginary celebrities she sometimes saw
I am not saying it didnt happen, just that it didnt happen because of her concious actions
That’s not how hallucinations work. The fact that someone hallucinating is conscious while having them is we don’t just call them “dreams”.
Presumably, her brain was working differently in other ways, as she couldn’t remember how she did it, though there’s no reason to believe she was delusional or otherwise not in control of her actions.
Though even if she weren’t, “accidentally creating world peace” would still be a significant accomplishment, and a infinitely better one than “not successfully passing a bill that would remove legal protections for LGBT people”.
its my personal headcanon that the real reason that Leslie is turning her head away in panel four is that Robin just farted.
She’s most definitely blowing some noxious hot air.
Robin’s starting to give me Malcom Turnbull vibes – Australia’s latest flavour of the month in the leadership stakes who used to come off as relatively left wing for a politician but currently is playing puppet to the ultraright to stay in power. That is, he doesn’t appear to particularly believe any of the crap he’s doing is good, he’s just doing it because, well, he’s “gotta keep people happy”.
Exactly.
Politicians are usually quite practiced at explaining why they voted as they did.
Indiana University is a pocket of liberalism and basic human decency in a sea of Othering and Echo Chamber. Robin is desperate for approval and praise–unused to actually dealing with people who don’t bow at her feet.
Also, it’s Robin.
I think you should just end this before Joyce ends up on the 9 o’clock news for punching the shit out of a politician out of righteous anger.
…
…
…
Why on earth would you want to end it before that happens?
We need some kind of cathartic release.
Because unlike punching the Toe That Walks punching a congress person who’s not physically attacking anyone is likely to land Joyce in the slammer.
Yeah. Save it for Mary.
I don’t want to see Joyce have to scoop out some lady’s eyeball when she gets sent to jail :/
Does it make me a bad person if I’m thinking I kind of want to read that comic?
… Asking for a friend.
Thus beginning Joyce’s long career in politics.
this is another comic that hits far too close to home for me.
Robin is way too honest to be a successful politician.
Say, Cerb? I know you’re raw and weary following current events, with lots of demands on your time. But I’m trying to organize something that you might be interested in, and even if you’re not you might be networked in with some people who would be interested. (And I’m networked in with, like, nobody.) Can I shoot you an email?
Sure! My safe email is cerberussadlyno@gmail.com. I might be a bit busy this weekend, but I’ll try and check it out as soon as I can.
I’m not trying to organize anything, but as the father of a trans child myself I always am eager to hear the life stories of those who made the transition themselves. What to watch for, etc. My son did tell me that someone he talks with in the online community he frequents said that he probably should try to get his legal sex status changed ASAP. Have you done so? If so, how hard was it?
I have and unfortunately it was a pain in the ass that took a couple of years and I’m still not done switching over all my documents.
But its unfortunately good advice to get the ball rolling on that as a lot of the pathways we have now are likely to start disappearing under Trump.
Do you think the fact that he is still a minor make it easier or harder?
Harder. Luckily though he has supportive legal guardians which will make it not impossible.
This should help you grab a starting point at least to work with:
http://www.transequality.org/documents
And sent.
WHAT POKEMON GO TEAM ARE YOU ON WILLIS?
I imagine he’s on whatever Pokemon Go team will do its best at getting his kids to shut up and focus on their electronic boxes while not getting them to play in traffic.
… given that they’re toddlers, probably whichever team has the most shiny lights, flashing colors, and cute noises.
Whadyamean that’s too early for them to play video games? GET THEM WHILE THEY’RE YOUNG!
Pretty sure it’s Instinct, IIRC. That said he said we should feel free to ask and I was kinda hoping for another Response from Willis.
I think the alt-text was meant to be a non-canon additional punchline coming from Robin….
…if that makes any sense whatsoever.
If it lends credence to your case, that’s how I took it, as non-canon attempt by Robin of a question that doesn’t put her on the spot.
On the other hand, I’m considering taking up the worship of Yog-Sothoth so we can start evacuating people to less shitty dimensions, so I can’t promise my “sense” is fully engaged.
Yeah, I can see that
I was just off in my own land doing my own thing.
Panel 4: Oh man, so much in this little panel.
Like, first up, fuck bigots who can’t own their shit. Like, I’ve been emotionally abused in my past, gaslit constantly by a partner who never wanted to own when she hurt me and so found it easier to try and rewrite reality instead to erase the consequences of her actions.
So, bigots who vote away my rights, make it harder for me to survive, fundraise on me being a literal monster, and drive my community to staggering suicide rates while murdering us in the streets like dogs who nonetheless want me to pretend that they don’t actually have anything against trans folks, they just care about (spin the roulette of excuses) “something something, for the children”.
And it’s that failure to own the idea that political beliefs matter, that political actions aren’t just a game of Team Republicans versus Team Democrats, but something that affects real genuine people that is common among the bigots that came out in force for Emperor Rapist.
They want the right to fundraise and morality play about the gays or the blacks or so on… But when we come in bleeding, holding our guts in with our free hand, showing them the places their policies have stuck us like pigs to bleed out and die, they run and hide, denying their dark work, not wanting the credit of their actions.
They want to see us die, for us to die in the gutters out of sight and act like our acts of bleeding in front of them are acts of aggression. Like, how dare you show me the affect of my beliefs and actions. The bodies it produces, the genocides it powers. How dare you make me see that unclean thing as an actual human being just trying their best to stay alive.
And that final turn of phrase by Robin. She knows that this student in particular was nearly gunned down on this campus because one of the types of “loyal voters” Robin is trying to win the votes of so believed the demonizations sold that he hunted his daughter across the state and threatened to shoot anyone who dared interfere with his desire to get her tortured straight*.
*Which resonates a lot because my dad just sent me an email hoping that my likely despair at the election of a man who wants to destroy people like me would be enough to hard sell the “importance of family” and of “coming back home” to be tortured cis again. Years out of contact and he’s still trying every underhanded trick to get me in reparative therapy.
And that hits hard for Leslie, because crush or no, this is becoming a violently unsafe conversation for Joyce and her other students. Where she is just letting them drown in the hate-filled rhetoric of Robin as she doesn’t even bother to own the damage her policies are doing to the folks in the room.
And there’s shame there of putting Joyce who’s been through so much through this all for a silly idea at “seducing the anti-gay politician” to the queer side of the force.
And there’s resonance. I mean, she’s said she’s been the homeless queer youth, abandoned by family and scared before. She’s lived her life having everything she does be that much harder because she likes women instead of men. So to hear Robin speak so uncaringly about her and her life. To treat her suffering so dismissively as if her potential death on the streets would have been no nevermind if it made some bigot in the sticks get a chubby at the thought of it.
And based on her buttoning her blouse and looking away that her crush is dying on the vine that is just how vile Robin’s beliefs are in this universe. Cause, it is very hard to love and lust after someone who doesn’t even view you as a human being worthy of life.
He…he was handed a silver platter, to show some, any, measure of compassion, and that’s what he did? I just don’t have the words, and I’m glad I’ve not talked to my dad in these last few months, because while I’m not in the same place as you, my dad may be the same as yours, and I just don’t have the energy to fight anymore.
Just [Words of Sympathy Here], because I just can’t articulate them now, or possible ever.
My dad is… an impressive piece of work. Escaping him and his efforts to destroy my life to force me cis took a lot of hard work and involved sacrificing things I spent a long time building, but was critical for my survival.
I keep trying to sit here and type out a response relating to what is essentially my realization that my dad ain’t the worst dad out there, and it keeps coming across as about as insensitive as that very clause. I suppose I’ll just take everybody else’s route and say *appropriate gesture of sympathy*.
Nah, that wouldn’t feel insensitive to me. At this point I’ve processed a lot through all the betrayal and pain and I’m more bemused by the transparency of this latest attempt than anything. Like, how stupid do you think I am?
No offense, but fuck your dad. I’ve become the exact opposite regarding my trans child. Talk even a slightly cross word or look at him funny and I start putting on the warpaint. The notion that any parent would be the ones inflicting such pain instead of protecting you from it makes me physically ill.
Your dad is a horrible shit-stain and I hope you have access to a real family now Cerebus in your friends.
Family isn’t always the place we’re born into. That needs to be earned by them, and he squandered it entirely.
I do. A little corner of my family who actually stuck by and accepted me without making me jump through endless hoops.
But yeah, people wonder why I have a lot to identify with with Becky. It’s because I too also had to escape an angry violent man who wanted to use any means available to get me “fixed”.
…
…
ALL THE HUGS!!!
^^
I’m sorry, truly I am. You have been an inspiration and I wish you’d write a book about your experiences because I think they’d be an inspiration to many others. I say that as a writer myself (albeit of silly stories to escape the shitstain that is reality).
I’m trying to analyze Leslie’s expressions in her two panels.
…. I don’t think that’s shame or awkward realization or self-awareness or disappointment. Maybe there’s a smidgeon of those. But I think what we’re seeing is LOSS. That’s the face of her letting her fantasies go and mourning their loss. Sexy-time fantasies, but also fantasies about the shining character of the strong Latina woman, and maybe some wedding bell fantasies too.
At least that’s how I’m interpreting Willis’s art.
Tomorrow: With Robin still in the room, Leslie asks the class to dissect everything she just said in terms of the class content to date.
“It is hard to love […] someone who doesn’t even view you as a human being worthy of life.”
I am soooooo going to steal this and put it up wherever I encounter some of those goddamned white liberals that are trying to preach love and respect these days. Possibly put in “respect” whenever that’s more appropriate.
“Oh, but of course I view you as a human being worthy of life. Just not those other people like you.”
if they’re being… well, anyway.
It’s like even trying to make sarcastic jokes about it just doesn’t work, isn’t it?
ah, yeah… yeah.
Shi-it. You’d already said that your family was terrible, but it’s like they’re doubling down.
*support*
I wouldn’t say Leslie was a homeless queer youth, especially since what we know is that she was married before she came out. In all likelihood she was a legal adult by the time she came out and was disowned, so she had more control over her own legal documents (unlike poor Becky) and maybe even a driver’s licence and such.
Not saying Leslie’s situation did not suck, but it doesn’t sound like she was a homeless minor like Becky is
She pretty heavily implies she was kicked out by her family:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/faithbased/
Well, disowned by her family, but since she was married before she realized and thus before she came out to her family, she likely wasn’t a homeless teen. She may well have come back to home in the midst of/aftermath of the divorce and not been welcomed and supported, which is bad enough, but still not to the level of homeless teenager.
Poker face on
Panel 5: Dear Bob, I’m so proud of Joyce’s growth and that she’s been able to take her sister’s words to heart, using her anger like a knife, pulling it out when it’s truly needed.
Like, here she’s genuinely angry, fighting a politician that she acknowledges she would have likely voted for, on behalf of her best friend. Spitting venom at the casual dismissal of her best friend’s humanity and the bloodless way bigots try and frame the casual attempt to eliminate the queers.
As if none of the blood of those who starve to death unable to find legal employment or die on the streets of exposure or who kill themselves because the society they live in so little values their existence isn’t on their hands.
That their actions, their policies don’t have that elimination as its purpose.
Panel 6: And Robin trying to run here away from that resonance is critical, because that’s the cowardice of bigots. They want to kill us and still be seen as good people, have the consequences happen out of sight and the blame be… somewhere else.
Like all the fuckers out in force today to try and whitewash the wave of bigotry that brought in Trump, hide the reality of the white supremacy and aggressive patriarchal values that composed entirely of his appeal.
Make it clean and out of sight, with the consequences not happening to “anybody important”.
Like, my community is being decimated right now. My trans siblings killing themselves hand over fist, even more than usual out of fear of how bad the next 4+ years will get for them.
But no one wants to own it, instead hiding behind bullshit “privacy” garbage and of course, the children. Because it’s okay to fuck over someone’s ability to pee or exist or not be fired and driven out in the streets if you can come up with a lie that the mushy moderates will nod thoughtfully at and present as a “debate”.*
*Fuck do I hate the way that my human rights are so many times considered up for debate simply because bigots think they can gain a little power demonizing me and mine as literal demons. And it wears on a person. Always having to defend your right to literally exist… it starts to make you believe you don’t actually have a right to exist. That you must apologize for occupying space and holding mass. That you must scrape and beg for forgiveness and obsequiously thank the dominant groups because for one single solitary second they’re not beating you.
It makes it hard to love yourself and stay alive, unless you’re a spiteful cockroach.
Hey you. I lurk, so you’ve no reason to know me, but I wanna say I love your commentary, and I see you, and I care, and I’m here if you need anything.
We’re with you. Let us cling to each other and ride out this storm together.
I honestly don’t know what is worse, but my interpretation is that Robin does not actually want to hurt the LGBTQ community. She just does not care. She seems to think that it helps her win the votes of the mouth breathers in the district (one that in reality just elected a real estate mogul who moved here specifically to run for Congress here, whose SuperPAC spending all came from out of state, and beat a local woman who had been active in the community for over a decade). I don’t think she has actually given any thought to what happens to people.
The way she wants to run away from it and move on to a new question definitely feels like she has to make a concerted effort to not think about it.
Yeah, I get that vibe too. I think there might also be a faint inkling within her that she might not be 100% straight as well that makes her unwilling to spend much time dwelling on what her anti-LGBT stance actually means as far as the effect on real people.
Robin’s feeble backtracking, and Joyce’s anger, is what sells this scene. Joyce is protecting her Becky again.
Yeah. She couldn’t return Becky’s feelings, but she still loves her so very much.
Full disclosure, I’m in Texas visiting right now and I’m terrified. Cerberus, thank you for being a strong and clear voice for us. Being in public is so much worse than ever before in my lifetime. I honestly don’t know what to do.
I’d say do what you need to do to safe. Stay strong. And *appropriate gestures of support* as you hold on.
It’s a small comfort but I like to think at least half the nation considers him slime and the next generation is mostly against him. It’s my hope that they will eventually displace so future trans and gays and other people “othered” will not have to worry about it–and there’s plenty of people who will stand by them now. I just hope these people will rally around them now.
You’re wrong. You’re, like, demonstrably, provenly, mathematically wrong, unless you think voter suppression reached 25% (I saw a 10% maximum value somewhere).
Half your nation looked at a candidate that they thought was dubious and one that is a self-admitted rapist, con-man, racist, mysogynist, and hatemonger and who managed to make a VP pick that might be even worse than him, and went “meh, whichever.” Stop pretending these people are okay.
Voter SUPPRESSION, no. Voter turnout is something else. I believe I read somewhere only 50% of the nation turned out to vote.
Yes, that’s what I said. About 25% voted Clinton, about 25% voted Trump, and, I think it was 46% or thereabouts didn’t vote. For half the nation to consider him slime, voter suppression had to be 25% (adding with Clinton’s 25% to make the half).
A significant part of the country also thinks Clinton is slime, due largely to ~25 years of brutal propaganda. That certainly played a role in dropping turnout.
Hillary’s support of undeclared war, drone strikes, unrestricted spying, and autocratic Presidential exertion of power are all matters of public record. So is the fact she supported devastating economic deals as well as work with autocratic regimes. The former is something no one cared about and will continue under Trump. The latter was true and a major reason why four states which voted for Obama voted for Trump.
It doesn’t justify voting for a walking talking hemorrhoid but it’s not character assassination which turned people against her. They knew, they just had appalling judgement in believing it was worse. Then again, I was of the, “Hillary Clinton was the candidate we had rather than the candidate we wanted.” A very-very Centrist politician like her husband and further to the right than Obama.
Be more specific. “Devastating economic deals” and “autocratic regimes” aren’t something I can google.
But also, seriously, 25+ years of brutal propaganda. I have seen and debunked many anti-Hillary posts online just by checking Snopes.
You’re replying to someone who said “at least half the country thinks he’s a lime”… there was no mention of voter suppression at all in that. Slightly more than half the country voted for Clinton, so there is no bad math in saying that at least half of us think he’s slime.
No. Slightly more than 1/4 of you voted Clinton. Nearly half of you stayed home.
Hey Cerberus! I think I’ve said it before but I have a terrible memory for these things and figure repetition won’t hurt: I actively scroll through the comments looking for you. 100% of the time you are insightful and inspiring, and I feel educated by reading your analysis. I doubt there’s anything I can do to help with your troubles, but if I can I will.
Cerberus is truly awesome. They should have their own Youtube Channel and Patreon for articles.
Cerberus, I also scroll for your comments when I haven’t the time to read all.
Same.
Ditto.
That is one of the sounds of a heart breaking and turning to dust.
Uh, Desanto, now would be the time to beg forgiveness. Because, Joyce is about to go Social Justice Barbarian on your ass.
Only the most foolish would beg Social Justice Barbarian for forgiveness.
Instead, beg for MERCY.
It doesn’t matter what you beg for, Joyce will still whoop your butt.
…. unless someone (probably Mike) begs for that (including some leather and restraints), in which case Joyce will just get weirded out and slink away.
Leslie looks crushed
Daaaaaang, Joyce.
Joyce is ALL the awesome.
Like, it’s take a Cerberus-length post just to say how awesome this is (and since she has already written one I can fart around and make silly jokes instead), but just to add some bullet points:
– She stands up to her parents.
– She takes a stand for Becky again.
– She calls out a leading politician on some very dangerous bullshit.
– She does so in the most polite, most clear, most IRREFUTABLE way. Bill, Signature, Becky. Explain.
– She makes quite a few other people in the room reconsider a few things. Leslie among them.
– There is a journalist in the room.
Like your post, a lot.
…. she’s already written ONE? …. okay, yes, technically, she has already written one. =)
Now if only Journalist Dorothy had the presence of mind to be video recording all of this…
Yeah, I think it really cut through the thin layer of denialism and romantic attraction Leslie was riding like nothing else. Like, Leslie is a good teacher, she cares about her students, so to see them hurt and in pain because of what she brought into the class?
It’s a necessary wake-up call to her and a reminder that she has dignity and value and does not need to beg for the love of someone who fundamentally doesn’t support her very humanity. That she can do better than something so inherently abusive from the get-go.
It actually has a lot of potential to show what’s going on in politics around them. The dangers and threats to rights. That’s not what she was going for, though. Leslie really seems to have wanted Robin to be a champion for women as one of the highest ranking women in the land but Alt-Right Robin is anything but.
*General McPentagon crashing through the wall* “Just run, Congresswoman. Ruuuuuuuuuun”
Becky, on the other side of campus: “Something mighty interesting just happened in my pants and I don’t know why. It’s not like any of my ten latest attempts at shenanigans managed to get the hat off Dina.”
May I just say I fucking love your General McPentagon running gag?
Running gags are my bread and butter, so I’m glad they are not TOO annoying 🙂
(running gag, heh).
General McPentagon is basically the antrophomorphic personification of reaction shots to badassery, so I assume we will see the good General quite a bit in the following strips.
You’re lucky. Or probably just better than me.
Yeah, second thing.
I feel so bad for Leslie. The little touches of her broken expression and buttoning up her blouse between panel 2 and 4 is just heartbreaking (even Roz noticed). Her crush really is as bad of a person as her policies show and not only is there no way she could reciprocate her feelings, but she views people like Leslie as an acceptable loss. There’s a difference between having a crush say they don’t feel the same and a crush saying people like you don’t matter to me and even though I know my actions will cause bad things to happen to you, it PROBABLY won’t be too bad and it will make all the people who hate the fact that you exist happy and that’s what’s important. Such a statement would hurt anyone deeply regardless of what word you insert in there rather it’s gay, trans, biracial, Muslim, disabled, overweight, or anything that is a big part of who you are physically, mentally, or emotionally.
Yeah, it doesn’t really feel like this has broken the crush itself. Only Leslie’s hope that anything might come of it.
:[
*starts playing “Blinded by Light” from Final Fantasy XIII*
Oh, I think this battle deserves something even more epic.
GO GET HER, JOYCE! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz9qxrqtwtI
*promptly switches tracks*
And if that is not epic enough…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vxLzHSfnxk
Bonus: Before clicking, see if you can figure out what score this is just just by looking at this:
Bam! Bam! Ba-bababa-ba
Bam Bam! Ba-bababa-ba
Bam! Bam! Ba-bababa-ba
Ba ba bababa ba!
If she is not on team instinct I will be sorely disappointed.
Jillian and Holzmann will not get to meet #DesantoHugeHonkers, after all. Leslie suddenly remembered that she has higher standards.
*raises hand*
So, Ms. Senator Lady…
What Pokémon Go team are you on?
Certainly -not- team Valor, and she just lost any point of Mystique that still made her potentially attractive to Leslie… And then there is the fact that she is pandering to a base of… well, base Instincts.
I’m not sure if it’s my cynicism coming to the fore again, or just the recent events, but I have a sad feeling that that question would’ve brought more people to the voting booth last Tuesday than the utter violation of rights that Trump ran on.
This is a request for advice to the comment section. Things are rough, do not feel that you are forced to answer.
I have a North American agender friend assigned male at birth who lives in an area very unfriendly to trans people, and probably minorities in general. They do not leave their home without a bulletproof vest on, and feel very unsafe in the community. They do not at present have the option of moving to a less dangerous area.
They have a long history of depression, and it has rapidly become worse in the last six months. Most recently, they have lost sight of the value of attempting to cause change, any change at all, brought on by their inability to change any of the aspects of their life that they feel are the most important.
When they have acted as an ally to other minorities in their state, they have often been mistreated by the people they want to support. Just recently, when they acted as an ally, they were told that “because you are male, any self-expression you make will cause damage to women’s rights.”
I have encouraged them to find something they find meaningful to do and do that. However, I would like to be able to show them Americans fighting against bigotry in a non-bigoted manner, as they only see bigotry criticised by bigots in their daily life. If anyone has any advice to give regarding what works of non-bigots are good reads for beginners, blogs or books or whatever, or just advice about supporting a depressed agender person living in an area that is dangerous to them, I would greatly appreciate it.
Ooh, ouch. Since no one’s written yet, I’ll write even though all I can say is: I wish I had useful advice to give. I hope your friend makes it and finds a good life somehow.
I’m so sorry that your friend is having to go through this. I’m sure Cerberus will come alone and give you a list of resources to help that I’m sure she has because her roll as mentor at the school she teaches at. My reason for commenting is to ask questions about their state of mind. They are in a constant state of danger which is not good on them or their mental health. Are they seeing a therapist and/or on any medication for depression? If not, they need to get in to see a licensed professional as soon as possible. Even if they are under the care of a therapist, they need to talk about increasing frequently of visits and perhaps add a med to use for when they feel especially low in order to stop the tailspin. In a best case scenario, they would be able to save up and move away from the excessively stressful environment which they might eventually be forced to do for the sake of their health anyway.
I take a pill every day for depression but I also have a pill I take when I’m in a panic or a depression spiral (sometimes just once and sometimes for a few days). Added with getting out of a toxic environment, eating better, seeing my therapist, being out (even I can’t be as open as I like), leaning on friends, having pets (they force you out of bed and provide comfort), getting sunshine everyday, and getting a tattoo (to remind me of who I am and what I believe), it helped me to end up much better than I was.
Right now, your friend is in a tailspin getting worse over months and they need professional help to be able to pull out of it. Until that happens, they will have trouble making meaningful progress in their life because their brain is overloaded with too much pain. Seeing the positive will be hard for them. A professional can help with that.
Unfortunately, they have neither a therapist nor medication. They have in the past tried several medications, but these had no positive effects. They also don’t believe a therapist would be able to helm them, believing that anything a therapist could tell them that they should do would be things they already know that they need to do.
Thank you for talking about your personal experienece with this. It does help.
First up, they are wrong, a therapist is very likely to help. I know because I was heavily skeptical and fearful of therapists when I was younger. Now? They kept me alive.
To that end, a great place to start for any general trans-aware health care and access to transition services and trans-aware mental health referrals is their local Planned Parenthood, which might unfortunately be far away depending on where they live and how hard that area has fought against PP’s existence.
Additionally, there are therapist searching tools where you can filter whether or not they are aware of LGBT issues or not and thus likely to be a good fit:
https://www.findapsychologist.org/
Additionally for general coping resources, places to reach out, and means of accessing transition steps they feel powerless to change, I heartily recommend the following two blogs:
http://nonbinaryresource.tumblr.com/
https://transgenderteensurvivalguide.tumblr.com/
The former is pretty good at responding to questions and providing directions to resources that are specific to the life experiences of non-binary folks as well as providing a bit of community they can connect with and use to stay alive.
The latter has tons of guides on how to access resources relating to trans care as well as guides on how to survive a hostile world or what feels like hopeless powerless situations.
On suicidal ideation, I would strongly pass on the following:
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/
http://www.thetrevorproject.org/
The former is a really good page to use when the suicidal ideation is overwhelmingly strong and you can’t find your way back. It’s pulled me and friends of mine back over the edge more times than I can say and I pass this along to all of my suicidal students for them to use as a resource.
The latter has an LGBT specific suicide hotline that has had a very good history for my students of being a place they can reach out to that won’t misgender them or belittle their identity while they are seeking support and help in crisis.
For connecting to activism, a good place to start is whatever the nearest city’s queer center is. Googling (city name) queer center is usually a good place to start and those usually have either support group programs, specific causes they are getting actively involved with and can connect people to, and can just at least give them a space where they don’t feel totally alone. Some of those spaces also have dedicated non-binary groups that can be a safe haven for support.
They also will have listings of resources in the area and will likely be a posting place for activist group meetups they can join to channel hopelessness into anger and actions and a feeling that they are doing something against the relentless tide.
Or you can just google search for a trans activist meetup group or support group in your area:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=trans%20activist%20group%20meetups
For inspiration? It’s not American, but I’ve been drawing a lot from books about the White Rose Society in Germany and reading about the history of groups like ACT-UP or figures like Marsha P Johnson and Sylvia Rivera.
Additionally, documentaries like “How to Survive a Plague” or “Paris is Burning” can help connect them to the history of how queer and trans folks have previously survived and fought back against a hostile world that wanted them dead.
And beyond that to reach out and offer *hugs* and a reminder that sometimes survival is resistance and activism and that every day they exist as themselves is a day that a bigot is dragged kicking and screaming from their ability to drown themselves in their hate. If they cannot hold on out of love for themselves, ask them to hold on for spite, for the pained frustration their refusal to die is causing an army of bigots.
And that that can be enough for now.
*hugs* Awesome post Cerb. I knew if anyone would have information that would help, you would. We can only hope now that it helps them get through this time in their lives.
I have like half a dozen internets (Emperor gave me back a few). I wish to give you one for this.
At least for me, sometimes just having someone trusted to say things to can help some, even if all the things they’ll tell me are things I already know. But there’s sometimes a tendency to start feeling unnecessarily guilty about “wasting everyone’s time” or being a “downer” or whatever. But a therapist is paid to listen to that, which might help ease that guilt and have someone to talk to at the same time. Of course trusted friends are also important to have and talk to, but the irrational guilt that often accompanies depression (at least in my case) sometimes kicks in anyway.
The trick is that the specific therapist needs to be supportive. I have read that sometimes that can be hard. And it might be discouraging to finally get the energy to try one and find they’re not one of the supportive ones.
What I’ve been saying to myself when things start feeling hopeless, is that any progress is better than no progress. Along the same lines, anything we can do to make things even slightly less worse, is better than if we don’t do it. For this reason, anything that we are able to do is still good and meaningful, even if it is small compared to what needs to be done. Saying this to myself doesn’t always work, because depression and anxiety are jerks like that, but it does sometimes help me.
I’m glad me telling you about my personal experience helped. As far as medications go, I had to try many different ones before I found one that worked for me. Right now I’m on Paxil as my antidepressant and then I use Trazodone (a med originally prescribed for insomnia which they have now found can lower anxiety in some people) as needed for when my anxiety or depression get really bad. I had to try several therapists as well to find on that helps. A lot of my sessions are just spent releasing my anxiety and talking about things that I usually try to hide. And even when she says things that I already know, it helps to hear somebody else say them: an unbiased professional who does not have to lie to me to protect my feelings or out of social obligation. While life will still suck while living in a constant state of fight or flight, they can at least release some of pressure pushing down upon them.
Question: are they sleeping well? Lack of good sleep can not only aggravate depression and anxiety, but be the root cause of them in some people! If they think they are getting 8 hours, it still might be a good idea to get a sleep study especially if they snore. From my personal experience, getting what I needed to sleep better helped me more than I thought it possibly could!
robot-hugs.com is awesome, and written by an agender Canadian. Their comic for today is especially relevant to your friend.
I wish I could do more to help them directly, but some of us are writing our MPs to pressure Canada to accept LGBTQ* Americans as refugees, if that’s any consolation.
*all the hugs*
“Probably nothing bad would have happened” <- This is the lie Robin tells herself to let her sleep at night and look in the mirror in the mornings.
Ouch, yeah
How long ago was this comic written? Because for this to be published now of all times is eerily prescient…
He generally has about a six-month buffer, so about six months ago, give or take?:/
It’s been just under three months for a while. You can see where the current buffer is by looking at the little box up and to the left.
“Moral standards” are all great… until you have to chose between them and your family/friend… sadly many people seem to chose “moral standards…”
I’m surprised none of the students jumped on the “will infringe on their religious freedom” line….
That’s right, Joyce, destroy her.
I cannot get enough of Joyce’s compassion and her righteous anger. I love her so much.
ooof I’m really feeling Leslie’s reactions in this comic. Earlier today I saw a (now former) online friend from the UK rejoicing in Trump’s victory because of how it will spite certain groups and laughing at all the people “throwing tantrums” about it.
It’s what finally motivated me to drop them and I spelled out for them exactly how it might affect people like me, who I thought she cared about regarding healthcare. It really hurt seeing that and seeing someone I considered a friend willing to rejoice in something that could potentially take away my access to the medication keeping me alive and potentially take away healthcare for many other people I cared about, let alone other things, comfortably from a place where it would probably never reach them.
I’m aware this sounds really selfish, and yeah I’m disgusted on a lot of other fronts too (Pence is for gay conversion camps….d-do they realize that he’s the kind of person who would want them sent to a conversion camp??)
I chose the healthcare angle because I know it was one angle they would hopefully be able to empathize with if nothing else as it is something that would negatively effect them if they lived here. But yeah there’s a general disgust, but also a personal hurt there when you know they don’t care about people like you and your fears and worries specifically.
I was considering suicide the other night, so….if that’s something they would laugh at? Fuck them.
No. I think you’re fine to bring home how it affects you. And as someone from the UK: fuck that person.
They are not a good friend at all. They’re not a good human being at all. You’re better off without such a person in your life.
Yeah.
Honestly half of my problem is the sheer lack of empathy there. With all my healthcare stress and job woes I don’t really have the patience to argue with someone who can’t see why the ACA is important to some people.
It’s not selfish. The fact that other people are getting royally screwed does not, in any way, take from the fact that you are too. Pence’s shock and rape camps don’t make the stated intent of mass deportations and repealing the ACA any less hideous.
And good on you for dropping that person. Pity it wasn’t from the top of the London Tower.
*support*
Thanks.
I guess I was worried it would sound like I only cared about that one thing when really honestly it’s the only real danger a Trump presidency has for me. I’m an adult 11 years past the age of consent for my state and living independently at the moment so I can’t really be forced into a conversion camp against my will And I’m white so I feel I can’t really claim any worry about deportation. I don’t like to claim to be part of a group I’m not.
I am glad that “was considering” is in the past tense, but I know “feeling better” is not an instant switch either. Please continue to hold on. I know we don’t “actually know each other” or whatever, but I care anyway. Anything we can do, no matter how small, to make things less worse, is better than not doing it. And survival is also a resistance, and an important one, especially when their goal is to ensure that we can’t.
I’m cool now but I thank you for your concern *hugs* I feel I should mention that I was up hella late at the time so lack of sleep probably factored into my state. I’m prone to severe mood swings so I’ve gotten to the point where I can pinpoint when I’m in a drastic state of mind and do something not self destructive about it. Unfortunatley my healthcare costs are a recurring wound that keeps cropping up. I need to work with my aunt who used to be a social worker to help me get some disability.
I agree with you though. Right now the best reaction is to take care of and look out for each other in times like these.
I’ve had people who’ve bullied me and I’m still here, so I’m going to keep doing that. If we can stand strong and help each other we’ll survive even people want us gone
You were completely right to cut that person out of your life. Laughing at something like that is unacceptable.
Yeah. I mean in the past few days I’ve even seen people who reluctantly voted for Trump showing concern about the people who are scared and upset. This person was just laughing at them all like they were watching a reality show.
I guess that’s what finally made it click that I should give up hoping I could positively influence them and change their mind.
I was a member of an internet group of mostly oldsters and all we really did was share music. It was nice, and one of the least hurtful threads I’d seen in a while. Then the election came.
Two days later, the new theme for the days was “haha, look at these crybaby liberals!!” And it wasn’t one or two bad elements – this was a mod generated thread that everyone participated on. Everything was about “illegals”, or “the Whining Generation”, “SJW’s”; they were gloating like this was some sports game they won.
So I made a post calling them out on how hypocritically mean-spirited this was. I pointed out that these people were honestly scared, and for good reason. All I got in response was “cry more you whining liberal! go run to mexico!” before the mod banned me.
…I was really upset at first but, in retrospect, I’m glad. Those people were all awful bigots and they didn’t start just because Trump got elected. People now feel comfortable enough to let their terribleness fly free, which means its just easier than ever to figure out who’s an asshole and avoid them. Now I’m not upset cause they did that; I’m upset cause I spent months wasting my awesome taste in music on racist, homophobic, ageist geriatrics.
Yeah…that seems to be the case. Leaving/being ousted is the most painful part but after it happens and you look back you realize that leaving was the best thing for you.
When I was young and desperate for people’s validation I used to believe that being banned from any place was the worst thing that could happen. But I think I’ve learned now that some places you’re better off banned from.
Poor Leslie. I guess she didn’t know after all.
If Joyce could research Robin with her phone during class in the few moments she had after typing with Joe, Leslie could and should have found out about Robin’s activities and voting when cyberstalking her. (After all, she even went physically stalking her.)
Ok, Robin’s attempt at justifying her activities did make her stance sink in, deeply. But then Robin is established as an airhead except when hyperfocussed, which is when and how she could land in the office.
Dear congresswoman Robin, your open for the taking leswindow just locked.
Also would Joyce win with Trump in single debate?
yes.
Given her track record, I’m gonna say, “With a knock-out.”
Though to be honest, I think a harvest gourd could be Trump in a debate.
Okay but also the thing that bothers me the most about what Robin’s saying is that she seems to want Joyce to be happy with her assertion that Becky would “probably” be okay.
Lady, if there was even a slight chance that my best friend would be denied jobs, be homeless/poor/unemployed, be stuck in an unsafe family, or even die because of some stupid bill you signed? That won’t be forgiven.
Robin seems to have some elements of sociopathy about her personality. She can’t understand why anyone would care about anyone else so long as they are okay and don’t have to personally witness injustice.
So, Roz… What’s on -your- mind right now?
Are you starting to realise that your plan of having Leslie trying to seduce Robin for the sake of creating a political scandal was rather half-baked? Because I don’t think this scene was your intention all along; you too look too surprised by the current developments for that to be the case.
Are you getting genuinely hurt for Leslie’s sake? Are you thinking that maybe trying to use other humans as pawns for your own schemes might not actually have been the best idea?
Are you surprised and impressed by Joyce who is now asking the exact right questions one should ask of Robin? Will you perhaps have a more positive attitude to Joyce in the future?
Are you still somewhat surprised that your sister would say the things she says in this particular environment? You know that she’ll say these things when she’s among “her own”, but is this the first time you’ve seen her facing real opposition to her actions, exposing the real consequences of them; and -still- trying to incompetently justify it?
Even Roz might have been caught off guard by Robin’s levels of shittyness. Someone linked a strip the other day when she was setting this up with Leslie that had her saying that Robin had a good heart. Hey, look, you were wrong.
Hey, no need to get smug about Roz here. Leslie already wanted to plow that until next July. She had ulterior motives, but it’s not like she’s done much besides put them in the same place – which Leslie wanted anyway.
Notice the past tense on that 😀
Roz’s plan is forgivable because she’s a stupid college student. What’s insane is Leslie went along with it.
And I say that as someone who was a stupid college student.
Eh, being a bit harsh on Roz honestly. Leslie is an adult who knew /full well/ what Roz was doing right from the start when they first discussed it all those comics ago. Roz failed to pull the wool over her eyes.
Leslie just I feel… compartmentalised her crush as it were. But she still went in with her eyes open and now has to face up to what is reality she already knew: Robin is awful. Robin helps people like her die. People worse off than her die. Roz and Leslie both knew on some level what she was. Honestly the only one totally caught unawares in this whole idea was Robin herself- and she’s utterly despicable in what she does and arguably anything- be it taking her down or changing her is a potentially worthy goal, assuming her opponent isn’t worse. (Which I doubt.)
Roz if anything had too a high of opinion/was too optimistic/naive about her sister ever changing so easily. Or the system. Whichever works. It was also a remarkably silly plan on Roz’s part but… nah the only ‘pawn’ is Robin who deserves to be sacrificed if anything. So nah, I don’t think Roz deserves much hatred here at all. Robin deserves to be hated 100%.
I do think she’ll be impressed by Joyce who by the way also stated she needed someone to be a little mean sometimes to Roz herself /shrugs/
If anything a part of me can only sympathies with Roz more. She’s still (probably?) straight so it’s not as personal this particular loathsome homophobic part even if she has friends who aren’t:
but she really tries and does care and- this is the /thing/ she’s related to. How exhausting must that be. The fact she perhaps can’t utterly despise such a loathsome creature means Roz is more optimistic than I could be. Or maybe it’s actually a bad thing. Idk. It probably is a potential level of nativity which can hurt folks.
I think Roz perhaps will or should apologise: Leslie still hurt and she got the ball rolling on that. But Leslie was fully awar and could have woken up at any time: and didn’t. Leslie if anything put her students at risk too by doing this. If I was to fault Roz in anything else, perhaps both she and Leslie should have thought on the wisdom of all this after the whole Toe dad situation. But I more put that fault on Leslie’s shoulders as she is the teacher. It was her responsibility in the end and she failed.
Which happens. People are human. And they fail. But she failed in a really big way and Leslie herself should also apologies to her other students after this. Leslie however has been punished enough emotionally in this strip so I can’t muster up much anger at her.
Though in retrospect one thing I seemed to forget in typing up all this word vomit is that this plan of Roz’s could result in Robin being outed. And while I have utterly no sympathy for Robin as a character herself nor if she was a living breathing person, that kind of thing can set a bad precedent for what it can do to other people. Like that’s there’s this line you can cross and it’s okay to out you and put you in danger. I mean /arguably/ if such a line even exists, Robin crossed and shat on it: but the thing is that line ends up being set by the person with the power that is the personal knowledge and information in question and we can’t always trust people to make the right call. I mean then even the smallest slight can result in that.
So yeah further contributing to a culture where tactically outing someone is okay isn’t a good idea for wider society, even if in the short term Robin gets screwed over and deserves it.
The fact that /Leslie/ didn’t even look at this is frankly wild in of itself. But I feel Roz should have known. So she aint squeaky clean either.
I don’t think Leslie of all people would have done anything in class, in front of other people, which would have potentially outed Robin.
Although a closeted person dating someone of the same gender seems like it would always carry a risk of being accidentally outed as a result.
I think I recall some nasty comments ‘discussing’ whether or not Robin should be outed. Not pleasant stuff at all.
Seriously Leslie you can find yourself a girl twice as hot with none of the moral pain this one brings to the table.
I think she figured that out by the fourth panel.
Hiya, long time reader, first time poster here. I love your work, but I have kind of an important message, if you don’t mind me taking a second to spam it here.
Trump has promised to repeal the Affordable Care Act, but there are people who are sick and can’t pay for their own treatment. If the insurers drop them, they’re SCREWED.
Here, I look at this:
https://apply.ptt.gov/yourstory/
If you really want to make America great, tell Trump not to let people die by ripping away their health insurance. Please, if enough people do this, he’ll LISTEN to us. I don’t have your follower base on Twitter or social media to get the message out, but you could let people know. Please, please, PLEASE. Tell everyone you can.
Yes, another question; Robin did answer Joyce’s question after all. The answer, in summary, was: “I supported the bill because it keeps me in my nice, cosy sinecure and, besides, no-one that I care about enough to personify was likely to be hurt so why should I have cared about the outcome?”
In other words, she’s a career politician.
Noticed how the cleavage closes the moment Leslie got disillusioned with Roz
Ha! I’d actually missed that. That’s quite a good touch
Missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.
I was just scrolling through to see if anyone had commented on that, I’m surprised I got this far. Good eye
Damn, Shortpacked Robin was so much better than this universe’s Robin.
Nope, Shortpacked Robin thought gayness would destroy society and wanted it to happen.
Boy is THIS comic quite barbed right now
Ooof, this is going to be a difficult storyline. Robin is going to be a hard character to read for a while
Too close to the bone to be enjoyable.
Hovertext was very optimistic about the longevity of Pokemon Go.
I guarantee you it will be big again once kids get out of school
The Hovertext was written last night!
I write hovertext when I upload the strip, and so this one was written three months ago.
Huh, my mistake.
I think I recall a twitter post stating, and I paraphrase, ‘Screw it, they’re getting Pokemon Go jokes whether they want them or not’.
This part of the plot is giving me serious Freaks and Geeks flashbacks.
I don’t know if this was already mentioned, and it pales in comparison, but Leonard Cohen has died. 8(
We get it, 2016, you suck. Please stop swinging already.
Oh, fuck this year.
Check out the merch over on Questionable Content… Jeph has the t-shirt for you.
My thoughts are with you guys.
Stay strong, and keep fighting.
The ship was like Yamato: Big, powerful, awesome, and yet America found a way to sink it.
In the end, the Yamato was a floating antique – a relic of a bygone age of naval warfare that no longer had any relevance to the facts of the modern era. I think that pretty much defines RobLie in DoA – No longer matches up with the facts.
That metaphor is very, very apt.
US manufacturing *increased* last year, but the job increase was minimal. The plants were automated.
Hey, remember when automating the factories was going to keep us all in a life of leisure? No one (or practically no one) would need to work anymore, as the machines did our jobs for us?
I think those optimistic scifi writers of yesteryear probably figured that the income would still be spread around to the average person, rather than the owners going, “Look, all this money and now I don’t have to share it by paying workers!”
Hah, and I thought I couldn’t be any more depressed today. Oh look. Well done, me.
Remind me again why the average American seems to regard socialism as a bad thing? 🙁
Do you know, if the 1% were taxed at even a reasonable level, we could probably support everyone at say a minimum of $60,000 annual income? Like, top up whatever you do (or don’t) earn to that level, and if you earn more, great?
Sad to think that the only thing stopping us from that is greed, isn’t it?
Can I go back to about 1993, please? I liked it better there.
*gasp* You mean trickle down economics are a lie and Reaganomics wrecked the US economy? No!
Yeah. And it’s not even like we haven’t been through this before.
We’re not all working dawn to dusk on subsistence level farming. That’s a good thing.
We’re not all working 60 to 80 hours a week in the factories and mines. That’s a good thing.
We need to make the same kind of adjustment again. We’ve dealt with improvements in technology making less work necessary before. We’ve dealt with the greed before. We need to do it again. That’s all. It’s that simple.
And that hard. All of those transitions were hard fought victories.
Exactly.
Living in an autocracy: http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/
Worth reading for people on both sides of the Atlantic.
Thanks for the link.
haha, I love how Leslie so very subtly closes her cleavage to that dialogue
Leslie buttoned up! I wonder if she realized that her crush is only pretty on the outside . . .
“She ain’t pretty, she just looks that way”…song from the Northern Pikes
AND THEN SHE BECAME PRESIDENT
Oh. Oh hells. I just realised something. This arc is probably going to end with Robin making some sort of invitation to Leslie and she miserably refusing. It’s probably even going to get us a more shattered Leslie-face than panel 4. Start padding the heart for all the feels.
My feelspads have been through enough already, dammit!
Pad it up, buttercup.
Joyce’s face in the second to last panel is so much beautiful righteous anger.
Leslie sadly buttoning up and probably hating herself a little is… just very well-drawn.
Robin is actually a really accurate take on the attitude I’ve seen from several people post-election; somehow, convinced that hateful violent policy won’t lead to any actual violence. As if you can coo at bigots that their hatred and fear is justified, shrug apologetically at their targets, and then have no blood on your hands when the first group feels encouraged to hurt the second.
My prediction is that someone is recording this exchange and it goes viral and is eventually covered on Fox, leading to more family drama for Joyce.
Seconding this.
and potentially giving that guy we’ve been distracted into forgetting about a way to find her
ALL THE DRAMA
Background to panel 4 is fucking heartbreaking.
“Not to anybody important”.
The problem with that phrase is that it implies that there human beings who *are* important.
But then, she hasn’t studied astronomy yet, so may be she doesn’t realize that people – and the Earth, the Solar system, and the Milky Way galaxy – aren’t important.
Or maybe she just isn’t a nihilist.
The fact that we’re all tiny specs of dust in the cosmic scheme of things doesn’t mean there’s no value or importance there. Only that it’s incredibly foolish to hold yourself to be important compared to other people.
It’s a reason to be compassionate and humble, not a reason to care about nothing.
Actually, since only humans can give things meaning (God excluded) that means that humans are the MOST important things in the universe. Rocks don’t care.
for a given value of “only humans” but yeah sort of
Eat Arbys™.
team rocket’s about to blast off again
happy veteran’s day
@alt-text:
I would say Team Kissdick… although she’s looking more and more like Team Pallor.
And… Leslie appears to be falling out of love in a very heartbreaking manner.
So is it possible to say, “With all due respect…” in a way that conveys that you think the person you’re saying it to is due any respect at all?
No.
Very sarcastically. That’s what I’d do anyway.
Yes. I’d say that’s the more common meaning.
(Yeah, I’m still reading, in my good moments.)
Cleavage… UNCLOVEN
On the topic of Trump… I am terrified for my queer and POC US ian friends.
In less than a week, 4 ppl I know have been assaulted and two disowned. I am sick at heart.
If any of you need help, please tell me if it is something I can fix. For my part, I have decided to get more active in local and federal politics here in Canada to try to prevent us from following the fascist trend. Kelly Leitch is a rising threat for our next election – if she has her way, we’ll be dealing with Trump 2.0 in four years.
I imagine that “mourn the dead and fight like hell for the living” is going to be a lot of people’s motto for the next few years.
Oh thank god, I’m not the only one afraid of Leitch.
I’ve been trying to get people not to vote for her for party leader.
Yeah. I can’t in good conscience give even $15 to those assholes, so instead I am going to spend my time volunteering with my party and trying to push electoral reform to get rid of FPTP.
Robin, you have made a… powerful enemy today.
Also, Joyce has a voice in my head now. It’s actually quite similar to Starfire when she’s in angry mode, just with a more midwestern accent.
From day one, Joyce has always sounded like Pinkie Pie to me, for some reason
For me, it’s been Princess Bubblegum for a while now
You know, I think that’s what I’ve been using as well, just never was able to put it to words. Just now I tried to think of what other characters sound good like, and couldn’t come up with any. Though I did recall the thought experiment where Danny didn’t exist, ala Garfield without Garfield.
Poor Leslie. She is without a doubt one of the best human beings in DoA and to have to listen to that shit come from someone she likes…ugghh. No wonder Roz is “passionate” she’s trying to fight and undo a lot of the terrible things her own sister stands for.
She brings up an interesting point that was also made in house of cards (the Kremlin on gay rights)
A president is supposed to be a representative of their people. What if the people are somewhat backward? Where is the line between mouthpiece and force of change?