SPECIAL HOLIDAY SALE EVENT THINGAROONIE
Every* order I get in the online store this week, from Right Now At Monday Update O’Clock to the Monday update seven days from now, will get a free character magnet included! Just thrown right in there. You can’t choose your magnet — it’ll be random — but, hey, free character magnet! Buy a book? Free magnet! Buy a buttload of books? Free magnet! Buy magnets? STILL A FREE ADDITIONAL MAGNET.
So, yay!
*does not include buying the links to Joyce and Walky! comics, because i can’t throw a magnet into an email
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I think this is gonna be the DoA popular vote (dorm wing residents) vs. electoral college (Chloe)
or, ya know, they can just pick a qualified person who DOESN’T already live in that wing
like Adrian Tucker
Yeah but they didn’t vote for their elector, either.
More like the bookish hard worker that will get the job done v the one that probably doesn’t know what she is doing, but tells everyone she can in a way that makes them feel better about wanting the change.
Also, is it me, or is there extra orange in Roz’ skin tone…
It just looks that way because she’s surrounded by a couple of the lightest-skinned cast members
What I know about art you could write on the back of a postage stamp, so I am sure you are right. That was more a reference to DJT than anything.
‘unno, Joe says her hands are PLENTY big…
Maybe, wonder what her policies are on building walls?
Is there really all that much to the job?
Ah that’s cute you think they have a say in mater.
Exactly this. Especially given Roz’ sex tape, which, at least in today’s society, effectively disqualifies her from… a lot of things, actually. Certainly a position of authority in a public institution, such as RA.
She would also have a hard time getting a job after college, because that would definitely come up in a background check. Of course, with Willis timescales, maybe society will have changed by the time she graduates.
Or maybe Roz wants to be a sex worker/sex columnist, in which case it might actually be a value ad.
This. It depends what Roz wants to do, and where. Some places and careers are WAY more straight-laced than others. If she wanted to be a circus performer, she could do whatever the heck she pleases, but if she wanted to work with children in any capacity, people are super conservative about that.
Roz’s sights seem set on community organizing and activism-type jobs. If she ends up drafting public policy, it would depend on the office (I imagine she could get away with it in NYC but not in Indiana?). If she wants to teach high school, this would be a problem anywhere, even if she’s teaching sex ed.
Likewise, any position of leadership where she’ll be politically attacked for her ‘history’, even if they agree with her, they can decide that they don’t want the political fallout. (Imagine, for example, if the public spokeswoman for Planned Parenthood had a sex tape.)
All that said, Roz has declared that her sexual freedom is extremely important to her. She is very much okay with being rejected from jobs that would try to curtail it.
Roz is on the record for promoting sex safety, though – her videotape might even be seen as instructional to that purpose.
And speaking of her job perspectives, Roz is likely to take up activism, feeding off the notoriety of both Robin and her acts of rebellion against Robin’s politics.
Or maybe she has a laid back Senator for a sister. One with no hang ups about little things like nepotism if it keeps her sister gainfully employed and not as click bait.
She does not, in fact, have a Senator for a sister. Robin’s a congressional representative, not the senator.
*psychic spoilers*
Plus, so what? The point stands.
Just correcting misinformation, your point is still valid.
I wasn’t talking about roz specifically.
Unkown evil is Mary right?
Pretty sure Mary is known evil.
I agree with whatever Agatha says
“I agree with Agatha”
~Roz’s new campaign slogan
Shortened to “I’m with Her”
Dorothy is about to learn a very important lesson to her future in politics.
Poor Dorothy Sparkle 🙁
Calling her that makes me think of Twilight Somehow shipping with Cheese Sandwich, because that’s the closest pony to Walky I can imagine.
I detest shipping Twilight with Spike, but his relaxed lackadaisy, casual gluttony, grumbling at actual work, and intense loyalty all fit Walky pretty well, along with other traits besides.
Cheese puts more effort into fun.
Walky puts a lot of effort into fun. His laziness is just charging up his energy for making D&MM spreadsheets.
Indeed she is.
But it’s better she learn it now, really.
On the other hand, that’s EXACTLY the skillset that would serve her well as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
….
Yes, I’m planning Dorothy’s future for her. #FanPlan.
But Bart Simpson is going to be the Supreme Court Chief Justice…
One of them will have to become Chief Justice after the other one dies, retires, or is removed from office.
….. which one of them’s older again? Because Bart was 10 years old back in ’89… but then he’s 10 years old now… and…. if they’re the same age forever neither will ever be qualified for the office ever… and…
….
Dammit! I DON’T EVEN KNOW IF THIS IS A TEMPORAL PARADOX!
Wibbly-wobbly yarn.
Clearly both the Simpsons and the DoA-verse exist in narrative time where seasons and background events may change but the narrative temporal progress gets cyclical (in case of the Simpsons) or progresses slowly jumping to the appropriate season year after year (in case of DoA) while being out of direct synch most of the time.
Bart is never going to get older (did he ever celebrate a birthday?), but he and his family emanate possible futures ever now and then from the watchers’ timeframe.
This kind of temporal stagnation or cycling is well known from myths about the activities of the gods, especially those tied to seasons or stellar movement. These gods embody the cyclical events perceived by their worshippers, and do them again and again if they aren’t just part of the backstory.
I wonder whether AI self-perception would feel similar to this?
Cartoons experiencing time like the gods of antiquity.
I love this.
Only Republicans are allowed to nominate those, though. I don’t think qualifications are much of a qualification.
I assume what Roz really wants is the single room that traditionally comes with the job
More sex, less Mary. Can’t say I blame her for that.
…. waaaaaaaait.
Assuming for a moment that Roz gets the job…
… and vacates her room … and moves into Ruth’s old room…
… and assuming Ruth comes back as a resident…
… that would leave exactly two rooms with a single resident for Ruth to move into as the new roomie…
… and Carla would still get a room to herself for the same reasons….
…. so that means….
…
..
.
… I don’t know whether to be horrified or overjoyed.
I would not be surprised if Mary ended up dropping out or requesting a transfer.
I would be only mildly surprised if her remains were found in the stomachs of wild dogs.
Yup, in fact I’d say that that is likely Roz’s sole motivation right now. Because rooming with Mary has been torturous for her and so literally any opening to get a room transfer or her own room is going to be jumped on with both feet.
Look Willis know you write this months in advance, but this feels horribly on the button for some reason
Yeah well we also start our elections months (years) in advance.
It really, really doesn’t. Roz is not comparable to Trump in any capacity whatsoever. She’s kind of a jerk sometimes not a bigoted sexual predator with no respect for human decency.
That we know of.
It’s just the whole “one is blatantly more qualified for this position but the other makes me FEEL good” thing
But that’s not even accurate either. They’re both relatively qualified for this particular position.
Roz has at no point exhibited the responsibility & conflict resolution skills necessary for the job. She’s just popular.
She’s exhibited the “actually cares about the feelings of her future constituents and is skilled in actually being emotionally supportive” skills necessary for the job. She has been a long-time activist for student freedoms and validation. She is nothing at all like Trump, who only cares about the recognition it would bring.
Dorothy is an armchair general at best, who cares about the job for the sake of the power and recognition it would bring, and NOT because she actually cares about who she’d be in power over. She is nothing at all like Clinton, who had actual relevant experience and was a long-time activist for for citizen freedoms.
If anything, DOROTHY is the Trump analog here.
Roz has never struck me as caring about anything more than waving her activist credentials around and showing just how much more progressive she is than others. She’s smacked of every chardonnay socialist I’ve ever met and hated talking over actually under privileged people.
She’s in that general ballpark, but I’d say it’s more that she suffers from a bit of the sort of naive arrogance that is common among 18-year-olds who think they could have fixed all the problems caused by the previous generation.
She genuinely does care, her ego tends to lead her a bit astray.
Dorothy also cares, but she lacks the sort of social skills Roz has. I think she genuinely thought she could approach social interaction the same way she would a school project.
Neither has any substantial similarity to Trump. There’s a vague comparison to be made in that one of them comes across as a bit stiff, formal, or even cold while the other comes across as a bit more natural, casual, and expressive. That’s about as far as the comparison can really be taken though.
Neither of them is a hateful, semi-coherent, thin-skinned, completely incompetent jackass who probably can’t read above a 3rd grade level.
Honestly? They’re both terrible candidates.
*choking noise*
Dorothy might not be ideal, but she’s the best available.
FEEL LESS SICK
Well, no, because the university wouldn’t pick someone from the floor in the first place. Both could think about applying, but in actuality the department that administers dormitories would simply go through its list of candidates remaining after the positions were filled, and call them up.
That’s in reality, of course. The DOA universe may operate under different conditions. But even under those conditions, I can’t see a freshman — who hasn’t even gone through midterms yet — being given the job.
I can’t picture Dorothy being able to handle any extreme attitude cases besides Mary (who basically handles herself) even as well as Roz could. Roz herself doesn’t strike me as the type to stick around when things stop being ‘good times,’ which is always a possibility for what she’s signing up for.
“Lisa Simpson” is overestimating her leadership abilities at this point, and “Free Your Mind” is underestimating how demanding the more altruistic/compassionate side of the position might be for her. Both aren’t really up for it just yet.
They kinda are, because both are treating it like a political position to campaign for instead of a job focused on mentoring work and emotional/physical support.
They both want to be generically liked rather than demonstrating why they deserve a job where theoretically their duties are to emotionally support others in a crisis, manage breakdowns between students, and solve problems that need a physical solution (like kicking some cans down the garbage chute).
And that’s why I firmly believe neither one is going to end up getting this job.
Imagine the swerve if it somehow ends up going to Joyce…
She would be really good at it!
She is emphatic, nice, willing to learn and correct her mistakes and bossy enough to make up for how cute and pleasant she is (most people will assume they can just do whatever they want. Walky can tell them they are wrong).
And let’s not forget that one of Ruth’s main qualifications for the job is her ability to tear the bloody femurs from abusive parents and feed them to wild dogs (don’t you forget that, Blaine*).
Joyce already got that particular merit badge**!
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/strength-2/
*) FUDGE YOU, BLAINE!
**) FUDGE YOU, ROSS!
I’m sold! JOYCE FOR RA!
“The old sheriff was gone and they told me a slip of a girl took her place. Cute as a button she was, and the strongest word she ever took in her mouth was ‘poodle.’
The black hats congregated. The roughs and the slicks and the nasties. Each and one wanting to carve a piece of ol’ Clark and show this new sheriff that this was their town now, to do with as they liked.
Into town they rode. Two horses in breath and ten deep went the column. The roughs and the slicks and the nasties. And the good people boarded up, watching the ruffians enter their town through narrow slits between heavy bars. ‘They’re here to take us away,’ they whispered. ‘They are here to tear the town down, they feared. ‘Stromatolites might be the oldest fossils in the world’, said one (I’m not quite sure why).
In the town square she stood, the slip of the girl, this cute little button of a sheriff, and the rode a circle around her, the roughs and the slicks and the nasties. They cackled and laughed and heckled and threatened, and the baddest of the baddies rode up to her, and looked down on her, and said, with hissing voice,
“You aint no Ruthless, girl. We aint ‘fraid of you.”
And the sheriff looked the baddie in the eye.
And the wild dogs in the edge of town perked their ears.
And this completely irrelevant General dude ran through the town square banging two pots together and screamed “FLEEE YOU FOOOOOOOOOLS.”
Anyway.
…where were I…
…yeah…
Out of town they tore, the roughs and the slicks and the nasties, like the devil himself were on their tails, and I don’t fault them one bit for not slowing down to check. Those still on their horses rode like the wind. Those who lost them scampered like rabbits, and most of them crawled on their bellies like the vermin they were, however they could, getting the hell away from Clark.
And they never came back, they said, and good riddance.
So that’s my story. There’s a new sheriff in town, and her name is Joyce.
NO ONE will hurt the her people. No one. She will fight them. She will.”
YES.
Saved, For Great Justice.
And now we have the candidate we really want…
Dorothy, all you have to do is tell Roz she’s behaving just like her sister. She’ll drop the idea in an instant.
That or insist she’s doing it BETTER THAN her sister.
I’m confident that’s part of her motivation. She want to show how it is done and do it right this time. Dorothy is not the only wanna be politician in the building.
Someone should let them both know this isn’t an elected position.
I’m sure they would both smile patronising at you and say “…sure it’s not.”
(A list with ten names would absolutely sway Chloe’s decision on way or another).
Dorothy DID seem to imply that Chloe would prefer someone already living in the wing.
I’m sure that if worst comes to worst and nobody is interested/qualified, they have a list of previous or wait listed RAs they can use, but if a girl already on the wing is interested and qualified, why not give her preference?
A) Neither is actually qualified, but apparently they don’t have a wait list to use.
B) Maybe not a huge concern, but I’d think they’d prefer someone from outside who doesn’t already have connections (good or bad) to people on the floor – Dorothy’s close friendship with Joyce could prejudice her, as could Roz’s conflict with Mary.
Yeah, there’s usually a good reason they like to have RAs start off the year with a crop of folks they aren’t likely to know. Because schools recognize the possibilities for nepotism and existing conflicts that would be greatly exacerbated by promoting someone who already has connections with the hall.
Them bringing in a list of folks who like them as RA is likely to also serve as Pudding Head’s reason to not employ either of them (because they both have sprawling networks of pre-existing conflicts) and getting into a nasty campaign against each other is likely to lead to all manner of “disturbance” that is not going to ingratiate either of them to Chloe personally.
I’m just extrapolating what I think is Chloe’s reasoning for apparently preferring someone already in the wing, assuming I’m interpreting Dorothy correctly, not saying whether I think either would be an RA.
It’s been mentioned, by Word of God, that all the other RAs are even worse than Ruth. I don’t think that Chloe has a waitlist, and certainly not one full of good candidates.
That’s a good point! Normally there would be, but what can you do if all your applicants are garbage? No wonder she’s considering interested freshmen.
Note that I don’t think “worse than Ruth” meant actually worse than Ruth, but “seemed to be worse than Ruth to Chloe and the administration”.
Ruth ran a tight ship and kept her floor quiet and all her problems to herself.
They’re not all depressed, violent, sexually harassing alcoholics or worse.
No, but they were still bad enough to not be good enough RAs to be hired. Chloe doesn’t know everything Ruth did, but she did know off the bat these folks would not be good RAs. If the RAs they hired were so bad they couldn’t keep their floors under control/keep their issues from coming to light for a month, and the people they rejected or didn’t immediately place were worse than that, it wouldn’t shock me if any kind of wait list had A) been exhausted by RAs who were caught and fired/had to step down/left/quit or B) Was never a thing in the first place due to incompetence.
“Chloe doesn’t know everything Ruth did, but she did know off the bat these folks would not be good RAs.”
Evidence exists that she’s not a good judge of that. Namely that she thought Ruth was awesome.
There’s two ways you can take that “Wow, she’s a lousy judge of character, she thought Ruth was awesome” or “Holy crap, the other guys were so bad that she thought RUTH was AWESOME.”
Considering Word of Willis was that all other applicants were worse than Ruth and at the beginning Ruth could fake ‘stable’, I’m more inclined towards the latter.
oh god not this
Dorothy is about to learn a very hard political lesson: populism beats technocracy
Roz has been a long-term activist.
Dorothy is sticking her toe in for the first time in order to use it to pad her resume.
Dorothy is the Trump here, if anyone is.
#FeelTheRoz
hmmmmmmmm needs some work
#RozUp maybe? hmmmm
That first one was more fitting back when she made that video with Joe..
#FeelUpRoz
basically
#UpRozing.
#MakeClarkGreatAgain
#MakeLittleJoeGre…
NO, I’m NOT starting my day making penis jokes.
Green again? Is it St. Paddy’s Day again already?
Naw, he’s just hanging mistletoe.
Doesn’t that scratch badly?
Look at it this way.
You’re not “making” penis jokes. You’re dicktating them.
I deserved that.
I tip my hat.
Roz up, when you’re on your knees you roz up, tell your brother that he’s gotta roz up, tell your sister that she’s gotta roz up, roz up
*livin’ on your knees
whats wrong with momish. she will clean up your messes and take care of you when you are sick in exchange for lectures and telling you to do your homework.
Because Dorothy’s obviously hiding horrible secrets from her past, and she’s corrupt, and she’s a murderer. Obviously.
She can’t even say where she was when JFK was assassinated. Highly suspicious
What do you mean she can’t. She probably calculated the number of female reproductive cells that left her mom’s body before she was fertilized. We know her location from the time down to the last ova!
If anything we should disqualify her because she can prove her innocence THIS well. That calculation is probably in her pocket right now. Right next to the calory intake of a pepperoni pizza she permitted herself to vicariously consume, and the temperature notes of what pen’s ink sticks to what notebooks best in what weather.
Plus, we have…rather graphic…proof that Roz has more stamina than Dorothy. 😉
I dunno about that. Proof of stamina, sure, but without footage of Dorothy’s morning jogs or somesuch comparing the two would be tricky for the dorm, even if they were so inclined.
That actually raises an interesting question; how many people on the floor have watched Roz and Joe’s little publication?
Carla probably hasn’t. Sal is too cool to care. As for everyone else… I’m pretty sure they at least checked it out for some reason or other.
The better question is how many girls on the floor realized they were bi by watching the video?
On this floor? I think most of them already knew.
Joyce didn’t, I’m sure. Amber doesn’t care about the other people on the floor. Dorothy would have decided she was too “mature” for that.
Dorothy watched enough of it to identify Joe. As part of her newspaper job, admittedly.
Nonono, that’s different. That was JOURNALISM. She didn’t watch it for titilating reasons, honestly.
Honestly, she probably didn’t. Joe’s less sexy and more mildly annoying to her. If she wanted internet pr0n, it’s easy enough to find it without a known douchebag in it.
Roz is the candidate you could have a beer with!
She
says what I want to heartells it like it is!Roz is the candidate who DIDN’T make a creepy and invasive itemized list of all of your weaknesses and problems.
And didn’t get easily provoked into showing said weaknesses to the entire hall in order to “win” a debate.
THIS!
Seriously, just because Dorothy is blond, pale, and WASPish, doesn’t make her Clinton-like.
Dorothy’s two moms are showing.
If this goes sour she could probably use another drink from Billie’s stash.
I don’t think Billie would share her stash with Dorothy given the circumstances.
If they’re commiserating over whoever actually is taking Ruth’s position, she might.
Dorothy, as Mike pointed out, such a list can easily be used for nefarious purposes in the wrong hands. Also rule number one of politics or even people management in general: don’t let them know you’re gathering intel on them.
Take a page out of Michael from the Office and have cliff’s notes on each person written in code and different ink colours
It’s not really “intel”. She’s just organizing the public information that people are willing to share.
* Weird Al continues on the hacked Muzak*
Suggests “Smells Like Nirvana”
There’s the kind of connection you want to have with your doctor (spreadsheet-y, empirical, meticulously documented and analyzed), and there’s the kind of connection you want with your big-sister-mom-figure (friendly, personal, ideally forgiving when you come home at 3 AM plastered and missing a shoe).
I don’t think either one of them is really suited to be RA, so hopefully we’ll be bringing in some outside talent.
And then there’s the kind of relationship you want to have with your RA (sexy suicide pact)
No, that’s how we got in this mess in the first place!
Honestly, both of them trying to emphasize how liked they are are missing the point entirely. Chloe isn’t looking for someone that the students would like to get a beer with and is likely to be chummy and look the other way. She wants someone who is going to enforce order and overlook the minor stuff, but absolutely feel entitled to intervene when one of their “friends” is breaking the rules and needs to be disciplined.
Like, the RA job is emotional support, rule enforcement, and problem solver. They will want someone (if a replacement is needed) who can come in and support the students in crisis, babysit brewing conflicts before they explode, and lay down the rule with an intimidating “knock it the fuck off” because an RA has shit for power in rule enforcement and its in everyone’s best interest if the kids on the floor don’t realize that.
And it’s clear why Ruth was considered Chloe’s “one of the best” before her collapse. And right now, neither Dorothy or Roz are showing any skills in that regard and instead behavior patterns that would be a major red flag for consideration for RA-ship (Roz’s buddy-buddy routine would sell her as too soft for the position and Dorothy’s record-keeping would look like a lawsuit waiting to happen for the bosses downstairs).
It’s too bad Billie is too closely tied-in with the Ruth situation and has boatloads of issues of her own, because of the girls on the floor, Billie has the skills you’ve listed and the will to use them, PLUS she’s already been doing the job on Ruth’s bad days.
If not for all the reasons it would be a terrible happening, Billie would be an awesome RA.
Billie would be an amazing RA when she gets healthy again.
Yeah. Check back with her a couple years, she could do it!
–that sounded sarcastic but I meant it genuinely. I pretty much always mean it genuinely. Good luck, Billie 🙂
….our time or DoA time?
Obviously, the solution is to make Sierra the new RA.
I’m for it.
Everyone: We need you to run.
Sierra: I need to run?
*at victory celebration*
Sierra: I needed to run!
I remind you 1. we have a promise we’ve not seen the last of Sidney Yus; 2. Sidney Yus is presumably not a freshman.
But how would this put her in position to take revenge on the relevant parties? It’s not important that we the audience see Sydney Yus, it’s important that the FOOLS who wronged her do.
I can see Syndey trying to lead the floor into a hostile takeover of Galasso’s Pizza (and subs).
Dina’s on that floor and so’s Becky at the moment, and so’s Becky’s best friend.
So, you know, pretty easily.
Dina I’ll grant you, but she’s a relatively small part of the wrong-ing party here. And there’s literally no way short of surveillance for her to know Becky’s living there illicitly. I suppose she could come across the job accidentally now that she needs a new one? But that’s the only way I see her coming into play now.
Sydney Yus didn’t need preexisting revenge plans. She can make new enemies wherever she goes. A stranger’s just a FOOL she hasn’t met!
I put it to you that stalking Becky and Dina is 100% within Yus’ abilities and moral compass.
Oh yes, it definitely is. She has done a ton of terrible or crazy shit.
I mean, in fairness, and based on past history, I would /expect/ Galasso, but she may actually respect him in this universe. Her argument was less “You’re wrong” and more “But aren’t I living up to your ideals?”
Relatively small, perhaps, but Yus is likely to fixate on the Terrible Lizbians’ failure to cower.
This would be her ‘Lez-ghazi’
Sydney will use her power over housing to destroy Galasso’s Pizza.
Ooo, left field, I love it.
Oh dear Willis. And she’s probably an upperclassman, or even a senior, since in her scene she mentioned her degree.
And I think I’ve seen preview bits from Willis’ Tumblr showing her in the wing.
I strongly suspect this will happen.
I’m for it.
WRONG. Agatha for RA.
Wait, what?
Just ONE list about the women you’re looking at?
I’m disappointed in you, Dorothy. That’s so unpresidential. A single list of women.
Someone eyeing the White House should have BINDERS full of women.
…..
Because I got momentarily bored of mocking Trump, that’s why.
Wasn’t that a Romney line?
hahaha i remember those days, we were so young
Yes. Yes it was.
Remember when the worst thing that could happen in a Presidential election was Romney? If only we could go back to those days…
I think the individual list is just about Rachel. Because she says it was cross referenced with the other’s lists. Plural. Multiple lists.
Mary’s list is very short – Mary hates everyone, she is always in a state of conflict that will never be resolved.
“Mary has several issues with the presence of LGBTQIAP+ individuals on the floor. Consider referring her to sensitivity training or diversity classes.”
This is a metaphor for the 2016 presidential election, isn’t it?
Nah, It’d have to be Malaya vs Mary to be a proper metaphor.
Oww.x3
Can’t we at least squeeze Carla instead of Malaya in there? Poor Clinton. You are not wrong, but, ouch. I think I heard her turn in her grave again, and she’s still alive.
Well, that, and the 2000 election.
And the 2008 election.
…Aaaand the 2004 election… And the 2012 election, and the 1996 election, and the 1992 election, and the 1984 election, and the 1980 election, and… You know what, the “most charismatic candidate wins” thing goes all the way back to JFK, if not longer. We’re simple creatures, in a way.
sub /simple creatures/idiotic apes
Honestly, it really started when they started having the debates broadcast to the general public on the radio, for everyone to listen to and form opinions on.
And since members of the general public are idiots who absolutely prefer style over substance (individually we can be great; collectively we’re morons, as anyone who ever worked with them can attest), since then we’ve had politicians who are good at public speaking above everything else.
Sure, occasionally you’ll get a Trudeau or an Obama, who is good at speaking plus good at their actual job; but taken to its extremes you end up with Trump versus Hillary, and Trump winning. Because people preferred the candidate who they liked listening to over the candidate who was actually qualified to do the job.
Whether or not you lean left or right or whatever, comparing the two candidates, you have to admit that one of them has a lot more experience in the field than average, and one has none. If you were judging them strictly on their resumes, and never heard nor saw them, and were strictly comparing D. J. Trump to H. R. Clinton, one of which has had multiple bankruptcies, is constantly in court, and has no actual experience in the field, and the other has been successful in the field for decades, and you wanted to choose which would be a good person to be the new CEO of your company, there’s no way you’d choose the applicant whose history says they’d get you sued and then run it into the ground.
–Sorry, that was longer than intended. TL;DR: It’s all the fault of technology giving idiots who aren’t qualified to properly assess candidate’s actual job skills the ability to hear (and see) their public speaking skills (and then end up deciding solely based on that), when that is so small a part of the actual job as to be negligible.
I’ve been thinking and reading about this since the election, and I think it’s much more complicated than ‘people who voted Trump are dumb’. Here’s my theory so far:
I think that some people felt ignored for decades, such as impoverished rural folks whose towns were crumbling around them (which really does suck). Then, finally, they thought they had one shot at not being ignored, at somebody paying attention to their pain.
In the other corner, decades of mudslinging at Hillary painted her as a cold calculating un-nurturing tool of the system (which was extra damning because women can’t be like that, she’s clearly bad at being a woman), and also as the literal devil.
So. Poor people had the status quo where they were unjustly stuck in poverty forever (possibly led by a wicked demon from hell), vs. somebody wacky and unpredictable who was might even help them out. The world isn’t working properly, and here’s a guy who says he’ll make it work; what do we have to lose?
Moreover, there’s the bedrock American Dream of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps: if you’re clever and hardworking and good, you can get rich! (Which also means that Trump, since he’s rich, must be clever and hardworking and good.) This is not true, of course, as the vast majority of poor folks who are clever/hardworking/good stay poor, but this idea creates tremendous stigma against poverty, especially continued poverty. If my family or I are poor, we must be stupid/lazy/bad — and that’s absolutely terrible to consider. We love the fair and just world where bootstraps are possible, where anyone can get ahead if only they try their very best (and who can blame us, everyone’s been saying that to us our whole lives, and it would be great if it was true). We want that world, a lot, we call it the American Dream.
So, instead of throwing out our hopeful concept of bootstrapping (for example, maybe you have to be really lucky to get rich, which isn’t fair at all), we cling to our hope that we’re just temporarily down on our luck, and we’ll one day make it big. We try to figure out what’s gumming up our perfect system. (That’s how xenophobia comes in: we’re doing our part, so, somebody else must be messing things up. They’re taking our jobs, they’re destroying America, etc.)
If the world was working properly, we’d all be rich like Trump. He says he can fix it. Hell, what do we have to lose? (Well, we could lose people we’ve never even met — they’re not exactly people, they’re attacking America either literally or by destroying the American Dream, so whatever). Etc.
wow, uh, that was a lot of words! Thank you for getting all the way through my armchair theory-so-far.
If it is it’s a bad one. Really the only character on campus (that I can recall) who even approaches Trump levels of badness is Mike. Roz isn’t a bad person.
Comparing people to the worst possible person doesn’t give a fair comparison. No, she’s nowhere near Trump bad. But the person you have to compare her with is not Trump but Dorothy.
Roz is still an asshole. She is the type of lefty that is quite selfish. Her rant to her sister was all about her and her body. She got mad at Joyce because Joyce had an LGBT epiphany, since Roz didn’t get the recognition for always being “on the right side.”
And she’s being an asshole now. She’s being obnoxious, bragging and just being a jerk. She actually was on the road to becoming a better person, but she lost.
Dorothy has consistently been shown as a good person. Her only real flaw is with Walky, where she’s been known to think she knows what’s best. But, to literally everyone else, she’s been a great friend. She’s ambitious, but for a good cause.
Even right now she didn’t give Billie what she deserved in her asshole comment. Because she knows Billie is hurting, and that doing so would be a horrible thing.
Dorothy is Joyce with ambition. And, yes, to make it clear, Joyce is a very, very good person.
I’m comparing them to the person they are being compared to by this asinine metaphor. It’s a terrible metaphor when it’s wholly dissimilar from the actual situation it is apparently meant to draw similarity from.
Every critique Roz had of Joyce’s epiphany and Dorothy’s coddling of her ignorance and bigotry was wholly legitimate and the worst I can say about it was she chose the wrong forum.
So if Roz is bragging what has Dorothy been doing the past two strips? Because it sure seems pretty self congratulatory and her stunned disbelief at the prospect of Roz as RA isn’t exactly the height of politeness.
Dorothy being a good person is not remarkable. The majority of the characters in this comic are good, albeit flawed, people including Roz.
Billie was right to be angry, Dorothy is fishing for her girlfriend’s job literally the day after she had a major depressive episode that could have killed her. Hell, I’d be alarmed if she hadn’t been because it’s a really callous thing to do no matter how logical it may be.
Dorothy and Joyce are extremely dissimilar in their priorities. Like even with ambition Joyce would still prioritize her relationships first because that’s just who she is and what’s important to her. That’s not to say that makes her a better person but she’s not Dorothy without ambition.
Hahaha, this surely can’t be a metaphor or allegory for anything we’ve gone through, no siree.
Wow that itemized list is almost… Creepy
Ooohhhh. Ouch. Dorothy, the fact that you kinda just turned other Rachel into just another item on a list is probably why she feels that she connects better with Roz.
It is amazing to me that people are not grasping this basic concept.
Like, there’s a /lot/ to unpack about women and ambition, and I’m glad other folks have defended Dotty while I found literally anything I’d rather do iwth my time than keep talking ont he internet after the weeks I’m having. Dotty’s /ambition/ shouldn’t be a special problem, and it’s not. Where I think it intersects with her issues as an RA, it’s in the amount of crap she has to do – and that’s a cost I’m pretty sure /she’s/ going to bear, because she’s a good person who will probably end up martyring herself. So it causes /her/ problems, not her /residents/ (mostly). Even then, that’s not actually /ambition/, it’s a side effect, and again, one I think she’ll internalize (mostly), not externalize. the hell should I care about that, as a moral failing? It’s a vehicle for delicious, delicious drama.
But watching the knives come out for Roz like they shouldn’t is pretty shitty too – and holy /gods/ have people been projecting on how the rest of the hall /must/ hate the girl who’s actually around and willing to interact with them on a regular basis, because of the reasons they hate Roz.
Roz has *ALWAYS* been good ta making friends. It’s literally a reason Robin despises her (Because it means she’s expected to keep Roz around). I know not everyone read shortpacked, but I know plenty of folks did, and none of them saw fit to mention it either. I was starting to think I was crazy or something, but no, here it is again. I probably did not horribly misremember, and now I just wish I’d said it yesterday. Sigh.
Rukduk wasn’t arguing Dorothy’s ambition is a bad thing, just that she isn’t as good at connecting with people as Roz. That’s not a bad thing, but it is a point in Roz’s favour.
That said, it’s 2:30. Maybe I’m missing something. If I am, please feel free to tell me.
Wait, I think you were agreeing with them. Am I misreading? Gah, it IS 2:30. Fuuuuuck.
Agreeing and expanding, ye.
I fail at reading.
Let’s be friends. XD
Oh. Thank you. I’ll admit that reading your response I was initially thinking it was a criticism, albeit a very in depth look at the topic on hand that I wish I had thought of. Also, I probably should have put this in my initial comment, but the way some people were arguing about Roz and Dorothy made me a little uncomfortable. Like it was a witch hunt or something all of a sudden.
And they’re both really good points to make. Like, Roz is likable and good at making friends. We saw in SP! that she is really good at shallow small-talk and showing an interest in folks in a way that resonates. And that’s exactly what Dorothy tried to do as well, show a shallow interest in folks.
And that’s not inherently a bad thing, in fact, there’s a lot of positives in that.
But that also means Dorothy doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on in objecting to Roz showing the same ambition as her as they both have ulterior motives for seeking the position.
And well, she also fucked up in a major way by showing her itemized list to the entire floor to “win” a fight. Like, the first rule of collecting sensitive data is you don’t just flash it to anyone at the slightest provocation.
The second rule of collecting sensitive data is ‘don’t let Mike know you’re doing it’. Dorothy has broken both of the first two rules.
Look, if Other Rachel doesn’t want to be just another item on a list, maybe her name shouldn’t be Other Rachel.
#TeamRoz
You know, I’m actually OK with either of them winning.
HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT!!??!?!? THE OTHER SIDE IS EVIL!! NO COMPROMISE WITH THE ENEMY!!
omg my side lost how can continue
While obviously silly in this case, it kind of falls flat when applied to larger political contexts where the consequences can be serious.
Sometimes it does matter. Sometimes one side is evil. Sometimes you can’t continue, not because you’re whining about losing, but because the winning side doesn’t let you.
As far as I’m concerned, “mom-ish” is a compliment. Moms are good
But do Moms get elected to be President? >important question.
No, because Moms are a type of woman.
::weeps::
Not all Mums are good. Some are abusive, some are cruel, some are just incompetent. I envy you having a good Mum.
Yeah, some moms are good, but then we have Carols, Naomis, Sharons, Lindas, and Mrs. Billingsworths.
Nobody likes an abusive mom.
Also, they are dried out corpses covered in bandages, their internal organs exported and put into vases.
Oh, wait, these are mummies. Silly me.
@JohnF: This is true. The idea/role of a Mom is a positive ideal, but actual moms are people, and some people are terrible!
Sorry that your mom wasn’t among the good or great.
Okay, Dorothy. That’s taking “organization” too far.
Still like her honesty, even if it isn’t especially well-timed (or expedient).
“i don’t know, she’s just so shrill…”
Boy this was written in a different world huh
Listening tour not as helpful as you’d thought, Dorothy?
NOoooooooooooo….. Just. No.
Yep.
That’s why I thought she might not be the best R.A.
She’s REALLY good at solutions,
But she’s not that great at fielding emotional needs in a conductive and reciprocal manner.
Neither is Roz, indeed Roz is arguably far worse….
Eh. I feel like she’d be easier to talk to.
Not that she’d give good advice, but for venting at least she’d be good.
I do think that Dorothy would make a better R.A. than her, but that being said, I don’t think Dorothy would make a great R.A.
I dunno, Roz strikes me as having a lot to offer, advice wise. For example, we know she works with Planned Parenthood – that’s cheap, affordable healthcare for everyone who needs help, not to mention hormones for Carla. We also know she offered Joyce a rape survival resource (whether it was a therapist or a crisis centre, we don’t know). It wouldn’t shock me if she had LGBTQIAP+ resources as well, nor would I be surprised if she offered resources for a variety of other issues or legal/political resources.
She’d certainly be a good RA for throwing out abusive family or SOs and she would not hesitate to crack down on bigotry, while leaving relatively harmless fun alone.
Despite some missteps, bad decisions, wrong things to do, and bad ideas, I think Roz IS a genuinely good person who wants to help people, and so I can see her being a decent listener if you came to her one on one with a real problem. Apparently some of the other girls see that too, since they want her to be their RA since she connects with them better.
Roz may not be the best RA in the world, but she has some good points, I can see her making a decent one.
By ‘relatively harmless fun’ I mean shit like ‘dorm parties’ not ‘hard drug deals up and down the hall’ or anything like that.
Yup. She actually would make a decent RA as Dorothy would make a decent RA and both for the exact reasons they are not showing in their “campaigns”.
Dorothy is empathetic, a good listener, and knows when to turn a blind eye and when to do a careful intervention.
Roz is empathetic, willing to help even folks she stridently disagrees with, non-judgmental and good with sexuality and contraceptive stuff, highly connected with resources necessary for the kids, and much more aware of things like abusive families than Dorothy.
And that’s what makes the whole thing sadder. They’re both “campaigning” by showing fake versions of themselves that are actually objectively worse at the position than their real instincts.
Sure if your problem is hating minorities Roz probably isn’t much help but for a lot of the practical issues that can arise in a college dorm she’s pretty well suited.
certainly, a breed of mom-ish can be really great as RAs. maternal/paternal RAs are the best, in my experience. they always look out for everyone to a stupendous degree.
Yep. But people prefer someone an RA they can chill with to an RA who will actually help them out if they’re struggling with something.
People are idiots.
I think the metaphor is different here if people are comparing this to a metaphor to the presidential election, since RAs, other than reporting bad behavior from people on a floor, and getting them removed, or phoning in a faulty faucet in the restrooms, will generally have little say over how a floor, let alone dorm building is actually run. They are mostly meant as peacekeepers, and ninety percent of the time, that is not really needed.
With my experience, the most “effective” RAs that I had were almost never around, they tolerated parties, and some noise, but not too much and no one found them offensive.
On most floors, sure, this might be the case. But let’s reflect on the kind of crap that’s passed through this floor in the first month or so alone.
Still don’t think they need a functional RA?
They need police protection and team of therapists.
An RA ain’t gonna cut it.
Its totally possible for an RA to be a cool person AND help you out with stuff. Its not mutually exclusive at all.
I’m looking forward to a sitcom-style campaign full of wacky hijinks and important life lessons when neither of them get the job.
Dorothy…Dorothy !….DOROTHY ! It’s to late stop now before they start ranting on about your text messages for the next half year.
Dorothy is so very Twilight Sparkle in the last panel it’s just hilarious.
“Everypony here is CRAZY”
“All the people on this floor are CRAZY!”
Okay, wow. Hearing Tara Strong’s Twilight Sparkle voice when my mental image of Dorothy is speaking is just bizarre.
I keep telling you, we need to pool our resources together and hire her for a reading session!
Hooooboy. We would have to fight about ten thousand Bronies with the same idea. Tara Strong does NOT lack job offers.
(Also, the fact that she’s voicing Squirrel Girl means that Perfection has already been achieved.)
Meh, at this point the only one who could be worse than Ruth is Mary.
Sure, but Roz would do a worse job then anyone else on the floor.
False.
Yes, the microphone still works, Mr. Trump.
Mary, Carla, and Sarah to name just a few. Either by dint of sheer disdain for the job or general awfulness as a human being any of them would be a worse fit than Roz as things stand.
I agreed that Mary would do a worse job, that’s why I replied with her being worse then anyone else. Carla and Sarah wouldn’t be good, but they’d definitely do a better job.
They wouldn’t do it though. Even if you somehow forced them to accept the title they wouldn’t do the actual job. Then there’s Sal, Amber, Dina, Billie, and I suspect plenty of others.
Well she’s expressed blatant ambition, qualifications and desire for the job. For those reasons she can never be allowed to have it, based on my rudimentary understanding of politics.
Basically how it goes.
Burr vs. Hamilton
Dorothy that’s a lovely list. But you know what lists lack charisma.
That’s what she’s got Joyce for.
Based on Joyce’s doubts about this, how much has Dorothy “got” her really?
Nonono, that why she added the J column. Look how charismatic it is.
I’m getting the impression that we’re about to find out that Dorothy is a bad loser. Not that she’s lost yet, of course, but I’m sure she’s used to being first for everything with essentially no competition.
No, that’s Walky. You don’t develop a work ethic like Dorothy’s without falling short a few times
I dunno, as neurotic as she can get, I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t handle those falls very well. She seems to be pretty great at moving forward even when she screws up and, say, sleeps through a class, but her tenacity – chasing after Amazi-Girl, continuing to try to get Walky to open up about his emotions, and generally never giving up – might make her look bad shortly.
I think tenacity will be become clearly problematic if it motivates her to do questionable things to benefit her, but we’ll see.
I don’t think that Dorothy will get into doing questionable things. We’ve seen her break off from her rigid rules before, like going for Walky, when she drank and Joyce’s party. There’s been cutting loose, but she’s not the sort to do something that’d go against her morals.
I don’t think she’d stoop to that, but persistently trying to campaign against Roz might annoy some of her floormates.
I want to know why Billie looks so unhappy. So many options to choose from.
Roz and Dorothy squabbling over Ruth’s job. Nothing for her to be happy about there.
Plus she’s been defaulting to ‘surly’ all day. Visiting Ruth doesn’t seem to have helped much.
If anything, it might have made her feel worse.
I love so much about this.
– When Dorothy asked people to support her for RA, she got them thinking who they REALLY would want. Roz is not just hitching a ride on the Dorothy train – she is the result of people starting to think in terms of them having a choice. Democracy!
– Roz’ comback in the second panel is perfect. “Groundswell” indeed.
– The rest of the comic is delightful as well. I friggin LOVE Dorothy, but now and then things like this is bound to happen when she trips in her own cleverness, and then we get to watch an epic freakout. Yes, Dorothy, you ARE kinda momish. Nothing wrong with that, right? Yes, you DO have an itemized list. You got us there.
I’m so ready for Roz and Robin to stop appearing in these comics.
All these assumption that Roz won’t help anyone because she’s too “cool” and bias. When she found out that something might have happened to Joyce at the party she gave Joyce contact info to find external help. That’s a huge huge deal. She’s involved and active enough in the queer community to refer people who might need help to the right sources. I assume she also knows good resources for help with assault, depression, and so on. Yeah warmness is a big deal, it’s someone you think will listen to your problems rather than checking you off on a box. No one likes being a check mark.
She also did horrible things to Joyce. Like finding out about the incident by dismissing it as a party-ruiner. Or sabotaging her epiphany that people deserve respect.
Roz didn’t know Joyce (or anyone) was sexually assaulted. She thought there had been a fight. She (and most of the people at the party) most likely only heard about some dude getting beaten up, without any of the context of WHO or WHY.
But valuing her self-righteous smackdown of Joyce that risked chasing her right back into ignorance WAS shitty of her. Shitting on Dorothy for patiently guiding Joyce out of her ignorance was worse, since Dorothy was a major reason Joyce is so much less ignorance than she was at the start of the semester, even if Dorothy might have been able to push harder.
It’s understandable that Roz would be totally done with fundies after sharing a room with Mary all this time, but she should have shut up when Leslie stopped her the first time.
No, I’m not doing that today. That is not the only thing that was going on there. Roz was /also/ correct in that exchange. There was a /lot/ of ignoring of the pain she’d caused not 5 days ago, and of how she made a point of causing more of that pain for years.
Leslie actually /is/ a teacher. Valuing that time spent on mentoring is /what she is actually, literally being paid to do/. She was also exactly correct to eject Roz, for that same reason. But that’s not going to actually make Roz be less correct as well.
“But she was talking over the gay woman in the room.” That’s true. It’s not as relevant to me because of the meta of the situation 😛
Roz was /correct/ in that exchange, but she was correct in just about the worst possible way. You don’t attack someone who’s just had that kind of revelation. You want to help them along, not push them away.
You want to engage them when they start acting like it wasn’t and was never them. You really do. Attacking might be a little far. Might. But it is not ‘the worst possible way’ when the revelation doesn’t include ‘me’. ESPECIALLY when you’ve got the two people most likely to say something, doing nothing. If trying to turn Ethan straight was still a thing, then it becomes all the more critical – and would likely have changed Leslie’s tenor if she knew (Dotty would have known, thus demonstrating further that she was softballing things way too much. Which we already knew.)
Dorothy didn’t know about Ethan at that point. Not until they’d broken up.
That was roughly what had bothered me about the exchange, but after some more thought, I agree with Lailah. Roz wasn’t getting snarky or self-righteous about it, such that it was only about her feeling superior to Joyce. What she said to Joyce was all true. Painfully so.
There may have have been gentler or better ways to rip off that bandaid, but realizing that she herself was STILL part of the problem was going to feel like a punch in the gut no matter how it happened.
I mean, it can be both.
I do think part of is Roz boldly jumping in because she’s more educated and she’s getting one over the dumb fundie. That she felt the need to persist in this when Leslie told her to knock that shit off says that it was at least somewhat about Roz’s ego, and I know plenty of Roz types. Like, what point is there to Roz saying it (Roz specifically, I mean. Joyce needed to hear “you have been a butt” from somebody) when Joyce is having her big epiphany?
But, well, I think Joyce did deserve to hear that, and for it to sting as much as it did. Joyce was being awful to Ethan and Becky. She’s an ignorant boob but that’s at best and her actions were causing genuine harm to Ethan.
She isn’t having her epiphany. She’d had that on the steps with Becky. She’s just publicly stating the results of that epiphany – that what the church is doing is wrong, etc. And while that’s a good thing to be able to say publicly…
Well, it’s ongoing. I think Leslie’s bit about churches turning about homeless LGBT youth brought home her church’s complicity in a way she hadn’t yet realized. Largely of course because she could now connect it to Becky.
Fair enough.
No, Roz thought there was some fight or whatever at the party (drunk people get into fights) she didn’t know the details. When she saw their reaction when she mentioned how the party ended she immediately tried to be nice to Joyce and offer help.
And I also agree with Roz’s anger at joyce’s epiphany that gay people deserve rights, Joyce was saying how angry she was at the church, and she needed to realize that she is part of the same group of people who cause the oppression. Yeah, Joyce came, but she herself was trying to keep Ethan buried in the closet and didn’t even realize how Becky and Ethan are connected until Sarah pointed it out. Also after Roz’s words Joyce realized how Becky feels in the situation, with everyone they know and what they’ve been taught against her. That’s why Joyce invited Roz to the party, because what Roz said did help her understand things better.
There is no fucking excuse for her being mad at Joyce for her epiphany. If she gives a shit about LGBT people, then someone else changing is a cause for celebration.
It was a prodigal son metaphor. Specifically, the son who stayed behind and was jealous when prodigal son returned and they threw him a party. The non-prodigal son was being shitty.
There’s a reason why Leslie told her off over it. At that point. Leslie was still the voice of what is right.
That anger at her epiphany was what set what type of person Roz is. It wasn’t about other people for her. It was about being angry at the other people.
Nah, as a queer person I was pretty cheesed at how Joyce conveniently excluded herself from criticism when she has acted as an extension of the church for pretty much her entire life. I’m glad SOMEONE took her to task for it because she absolutely needed to understand her role in perpetuating that kind of oppressive ideology.
It’s personal growth. Give her 5 minutes. Attack someone for not coming far enough when they move in the right direction and they’ll very likely get defensive and retreat rather than agree with you.
I mean, I get the reaction. I understand why you’d be cheesed at it. But head on confrontation isn’t always the best approach.
Roz attacked Dorothy there too, for not being hard enough on Joyce, but Dorothy did more than she did to help Joyce get that far.
Yeah, Emperor noted this on the podcast, that Joyce really actually appreciated that kick in the butt as it allowed her to be more true to her core self and recognize the negative way she was reacting to the gay people in her life (trying to force Becky into a closet, trying to “fix” Ethan).
Like, Roz was rude and cruel, but I’m willing to forgive that a ton, because well, her roommate is Mary and her sister has a base entirely made up of evangelical churchy types who want to remove her access to birth control and think of her as an illegal. And she had already had negative interactions with Joyce with Joyce accusing her of witchcraft for wanting to help and Joyce yelling at her about the premarital hanky-panky.
She was not in a good place to be overly sympathetic to Joyce’s growth and a good reason to feel bitterness towards the Church and those who have supported the Church’s crimes for so long. Doesn’t make it right, but definitely makes it understandable and forgivable and it’s clear Joyce doesn’t interpret that moment as negatively as the fans do.
It’s like the majority has every bloody intention of ignoring us without their feet being held to the fire sometimes, they /know/ it, and they pillory us for it or something.
I managed to somehow forget that Joyce was a complete and total bastard to Roz personally too.
Like their literal first interaction was Joyce slutshaming her and basically saying her soul is soiled it’s super gross and it doesn’t really improve from there for a long time.
I mean, you’re right, and that’s bad, but I don’t want cishet (nonwhite) women using our problems to fuel a personal grudge. I don’t think Roz was, or I’d be a bit more measured in saying “No, seriously, she was fine there” (It’d probably come out closer to “What she’s doing is shitty for this /motive/, but she was still actually /correct/”).
But yes, Joyce has been shitty to a lot of people. And it was totally fair to say Dotty’s an enabler. She was. She didn’t do much to push her at all except exist. And that’s /actually fine on its own merits too/; existing as an obvious proof someone’s wrong, while trying to be friendly can be important. But it can mean you end up letting people be bastards too. And it can be important to provide at least some pushback (which Dotty only rarely does, and mostly only for herself or Joyce specifically)
Remember the things Joyce said to Roz, when Roz’s sex-tape came out, and the things Joyce said to Joe with Roz in the immediate vicinity? She basically said Roz defiled her body, and she’s going to hell for that. That was also rude and terrible, so I don’t understand why there’s this expectation of Roz, who is already outspoken in her beliefs, to sit back and hand hold Joyce extremely politely when Joyce is saying the way the “church” acts is not in any way her fault.
Dorothy not being mom-ish, Exhibit A:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/cah/
Dorothy not being mom-ish, Exhibit B:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/drill/
Dorothy not being mom-ish, Exhibit C:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/ditch/
Dorothy not being mom-ish, Exhibit D:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/moms/
Only the third one is arguably not being momish. (If not for that one, I’d be sure you were being sarcastic.)
I was sarcastic for humorous effect. In reality I think that Dorothy is VERY momish and that that is a good thing, even when it attracts the ridicule of her peers.
I might have entered this from a slightly different angel than many of my co-commentators.
For me this is a low-stake competition. Whoever the new RA is will not affect the lives of the residents of the Clark wing too much. Whoever loses of Dorothy or Roz won’t loose too much (I mean, regardless what Dorothy might tell herself, Yale will consider other factors than RA-ship.)
But both of them (especially Dorothy) enters with maybe a bit too much pride and are maybe a bit too sure of themselves. One of them or both will learn valuable lessons about life and politics.
And in the meantime, they are friggin’ hilarious. Roz and Dorothy play political campaign in their dorm. It’s…. I was about to say “high-school-esque”, but “college-esque” works just as well. This is not a serious situation, this is a silly situation, not many notches above Walky’s and Carla’s fanwars. So for me, this is just the time to lean back, eat popcorn and enjoy this lens do regard those two great characters through.
The REAL serious situation concerning the RA-ship is Ruth’s situation and Billie’s and Carla’s roles in it. And whatever Roz and Dorothy do won’t affect that much.
Seriously, the pair of them campaigning for an un-elected position is comedy gold and the funniest outcome is probably neither of them getting the job because it’s not an democracy it’s an appointment.
Yeah!
To the Momish thing, people don’t want a Momish person because they can be condescending and patronizing. One of Dorothy’s flaws, actually, is that while she is a very good friend she thinks she knows better than everyone else, when she doesn’t. Walky is one example, but I was totally floored that she even considered not telling Joyce about the Ryan thing because she assumed Joyce was too fragile to handle her own case, not even realizing how different Joyce is now and how far she’s come in being resilient. She thought she knew better, but she isn’t Joyce- so she can’t predict what Joyce will feel, she can only meet Joyce where Joyce is.
Of course, no one wants a mom figure. Especially kids just away from home. Doesn’t mean a momish person wouldn’t be the better person for the job.
Joyce has repeatedly said she doesn’t want to talk about it. Doesn’t want to think about it. Doesn’t want to be reminded of it. It’s not surprising Dorothy hesitates to have that conversation.
The thing is, it’s still Joyces decision to make. It just as easily turned into one of the situations where Joyce changed her mind and then finds out the person she calls best friend kept the possibility of tracking her rapist down from her “for her own good”. Which is infinitely worse than just asking her about what she wants to do.
*could have turned into
Because ONE Desantos sister being reminiscent of Trump, have a second one!
(Yes, I know Roz’s politics are a 180 from Trump’s. But the “perfectly qualified candidate who isn’t great at connecting with people but is actually good at the job… gets pushed aside by an asshole people like for no damn reason” thing hits a bit too close to home.)
I’d almost think of it as more reminiscent of 2000 than 2016… but… you know, both apply.
Except that for the RA, the ability to sit down and chat with your residents is an actual qualification for the job, not a weird and disconnected secondary trait.
Thank you! People act like it’s the worst qualification. No. It’s up there on the “you really should be able to do this” list.
Seriously if my RA had needed an itemized list of my problems to keep them straight I would have felt super alienated and unimportant. Having a decent set of social skills is an important part of this kind of job and Dorothy just doesn’t. Like she’s a smart, hardworking and intelligent person but she’s kind of clumsy socially and that’s a problem.
Smart and intelligent are the same thing and clearly I am neither.
Exactly. It’s a SKILL, not a personality trait. People often conflate those. There are plenty examples of people who have great interpersonal skills, who are personally not social. Some people like Roz it comes naturally and other people have to learn it.
Yes, I had actually thought that Dorothy was one of the people who, while not being a social butterfly or enjoying a lot of partying, actually had pretty good interpersonal skills. But apparently she has some things to learn in that area.
Assuming your RA is actually bothering (which is a huge assumption from my memories and from the examples in DoA), keeping an itemized list is probably a good idea. They’ve got not just your problems to keep straight, but everyone’s on the floor – and probably notes on associated boy/girlfriends, other friends and assorted hangers on.
Maybe some people can do that without effort, but it’ll be rare. Better to have someone doing a good job with notes than screwing it up without.
Much like, for a more serious example, doctors and counselors and social workers all keep meticulous notes. Not because they don’t care, but because it’s important to keep it straight. It works better.
Mind you, talking about the notes you’re keeping is a social and political faux pas. She’s not winning any points there. Because people react exactly the way you would.
Yes, it’s an incredibly obvious social faux pas and the fact that she’s making it kinda highlights her shortcomings in the arena of interacting with other people on a personal basis which is a major part of the job she claims to be qualified for.
Yeah, the trick is not to be seen to be taking notes, especially not about that stuff. You listen, you show support, you show empathy and then if you need to write that down in code somewhere so you can remember later, good, that’s awesome. But you don’t write it down in front of them (if you’re not their therapist) and you definitely don’t show everyone the list you made of their flaws.
I feel like the lattermost point is something we should be politely ignoring out of the rule of comedy and the fact that they’re far enough away to not really be able to read her writing on a sheet of paper. I mean, you’d be right if I’m wrong to think comedy should matter here, so I could be totally off base, but.
I wasn’t even thinking that anyone would be able to read the list. Just seeing that it exists is enough to turn people off.
Same. -.-
I’m increasingly thinking Dorothy is legit not ‘qualified’ for the job, actually. ACtually, genuinely, not qualified. The interpersonal skills required to be an RA are sort of not the skills one expects of a president – and while she is certainly giving me confidence she can be a president, she isn’t giving me confidence she can be an RA.
I mean to be fair, in practice, an RA is not a job that requires super people. I’m sure she can perform it competently. But a lot of commenters seem to expect more than basic conflict resolution, tamping down on everyday jackassery of having 300 people or more living in a building, and such. I’m 100% sure she’s capable of that. But the, to me, idealized crap that keeps coming up? I… I just don’t think she can. Like, she just said this to their faces. I don’t know what to tell you. It’s… it’s impolitic.
Sometimes you can be so opposite to someone, you turn out just like them.
[sarcastic monotone] Woo-hoo. I am totally in suspense. I wonder which candidate will become the RA. [/sarcastic monotone]
It’ll end up being Carla after all. Just out of spite.
My betting’s on Dotty. This plotline is nearly pointless if it doesn’t open opportunities to advance a character’s arc, or advance one itself. Or possibly ‘open up shenanigans’, or similar, but I think that’s a lower bet. It’s not like it really matters if Chloe keeps doing the job in perpetuity – none of us really cares about Chloe’s problems, and she’s not real so she doesn’t have much of a vote
“Dorothy learns important lessons about how to politics better” /is/ possible, but doesn’t… really seem like the thrust of her arc in general. having Dotty as RA, however, will let her overwork start to cascade into failure. And suffering is a pretty central part of the webcomic. It’d also give her plenty of room to make mistakes she can improve from, b/c she’s evidently far worse at dealing with people than I thought, and that’s a /big/ part of the webcomic (for some reason I can’t fathom.)
Roz /could/ be it, and it could still advance Dotty’s arc, but it doesn’t seem like it’d do that much for it. “What about Roz’s arc?” “What about it? She’s not really much of a main character. However, and in fairness, this could be the setup, to *MAKE* her a main character. I could be wrong, after all! I could also be wrong about whether it advances Dotty’s arc to lose ot Roz. But, that’s what seems like the straightforward narrative choice to me.
Also, ‘surprise’ is not nearly as important a factor in fiction as execution, quality of writing, and the like! This is even more true in a drama, where character plays a central role!
I wish more people understood that last paragraph.
Roz is on the main character list, but she’s definitely one of the more ‘secondary’ ones. We don’t get to follow her very much. It’d be nice too, I guess, but I see Dorothy’s being more fulfilling – she’s been due for a good plot of her own, not just serving as an auxiliary to Joyce and Walky’s shenanigans.
Walky finally tries to open up about his problems, but Dorothy is like “I’m sorry, everything is on fire and I’m expected to pass out all the sand buckets, can it /wait/ for a minute” “…Yeah. Sure.”
Later:
“Sorry about all that. So what did you want to talk about?”
“Iunno, forgot.”
Suffering: Obtained.
Predictions: Made
Thumbs Ups for Willis: Out.
I AM FORCIBLY REMOVED THE COMMENTS SECTION.
XD
I want this now! So badly.
I can see Dorothy trying to party like Roz to make herself more relatable and but also trying to keep up with grades and then crashing & burning depending on how long the campaign arc goes
Eh, Id on’t know that we’ll really have a campaign arc. What I mean is that it’s an ongoing time commitment. You need to be available. Depending on the hall (and it /does/ have Carla, who enjoys being a disruptive jerk, though there isn’t a whole lot else here), you may have a lot of minor things to deal with. Then there’s just making it /clear/ you’re available to talk to (as when Ruth stood out there before her depression was kicking her ass, throwing out minor useful tidbits.)
She’s /already/ got a pretty small amount of spare time. That’s why she uses her fun-time productively. An RA-hood, at the relatively minor level I ascribe to it, might not eat much of her time, but she doesn’t have a lot left to give. And she, Joyce, and Walky are going to be the ones to suffer for it (mostly), not the residents.
Dotty…
…talk less.
…smile more
As said by the Purple Man.
To reference back to statements made about Roz in the comments section yesterday, and how Dorothy exploited Joe’s friendship to write about his sextape with Roz, just so she could publish an article in the newspaper, in the hopes that she could later write a byline that she wanted to later?
This is not the first time she has put up altruistic reasons for doing something that benefits her status. Dorothy is only doing it on a larger scale here, by taking other people’s info, to see if they are interested in being RA, so she can guarantee her odds of getting the job, and winning over the people on the floor.
Also, as the alt-text suggests, she is apparently not very good with keeping confidential information secret and secure. Does it remind you of a certain e-mail scandal? I don’t know if I can stomach this arc, but I’ll try.
Unless Roz makes some off-putting statements about race, then I’ll puke.
I don’t think this is a one-to-one relationship with the e-mail faux-scandal, because this isn’t a matter of her having a list of minor thoughts about folks revealed to everyone showing that she’s a human being. This is more like Trump playfully bragging about getting security briefings and letting slip information from it because he thought it made him look more presidential.
Roz I don’t like for job because she is just a little too flippant: but she doesn’t threaten to steal your femurs, and she doesn’t have a hidden agenda.
Dorothy is a just a bit too organized and hidden agenda heavy: but she would be sure to find out what she would need to know to keep the dorm running smoothly, besides being able to ‘connect on paper with people’.
Dorothy just learned a valuable political lesson: never get complacent about your backers: they are very fickle.
Roz and Dorothy need to start a debate.
“No one wants to be RA”. Well, actually Dorothy does want to be RA, so it seems pretty douchey for Roz to go after the job if she doesn’t actually want it. Just wants to take it from someone else? I mean, it’d be different if she actually wanted the job.
She does not ‘just want to take it from someone else’. She didn’t want it initially, but Agatha and Other Rachel convinced her she would be good at it and now she wants to try.
You really believe that all these girls are such assholes that they called up Roz after telling Dorothy she’d do a good job?
I’m beginning to see why you have a completely different opinion of Roz. You miss a whole lot of subtext.
Let’s start with the most obvious: “groundswell of support.” That’s a politician phrase. It’s not something that really happens, and is said in a smarmy way.
And let’s take that. If Roz never really wanted the job, why would she be smarmy about it? Why is she saying all these politician things?
Now let’s look at the fact that they say she’s warmer that Dorothy. We have literally never seen her be warm, and right in front of their faces she’s being an asshole. Yet they still repeat it like it’s true.
Roz did approach these people, and pulled the common trick of making them think making her RA was their idea. She’s not going to be smarmy with the fake modesty if she didn’t want to do it.
I don’t “not like” Roz. I pay attention to how she has been portrayed this entire comic. She’s not as bad as some characters, who basically can’t be redeemed. But she is an asshole. She actually was on a path to redemption, but this is a huge step back, being a colossal bongo again.
She’s not being an ass here. She’s just telling them how she’s qualified. If Roz telling them here how she’d be a better candidate is being an asshole, then Dorothy must also be an ass because she’s doing the same exact thing. The day after Ruth gets put on suicide watch. I could argue that Dorothy didn’t want it either until she heard Ruth was gone.
Ah, yes, what assholes they would need to be to think about who would make the best RA out of the floor when the subject came up. “Dorothy would make a good one” does not equal “Dorothy would make the best one”.
We disagree on how we read this. Big deal. No need to come in and call me stupid, but thanks for that. Super appreciate it.
There are absolutely times people think someone would be good at a job and suggest it to people, and Roz can get a big head about that. Talking about it does not magically make it implausible or not what happened. Nor does not considering or wanting it initially mean she can’t go ‘hey, yeah’ when people say ‘hey you’d be good at this, are you going to try’.
We’ve never seen Roz interact with either of these two either, so acting like we can speak about her relationships with them with any certainty is laughable.
Nothing Roz said was assholish. It amounts to ‘oh, I wasn’t interested initially, but people said I’d be good at it so here I am’. Even if it’s not true, it’s not a dickish thing to say. She said she had support and Agatha and Other Rachel elaborated WHY she had support.
But you know what? So what if she did? Let’s say you’re right and she did go out and get these girls to think she’s make a good RA. THAT IS NOT AN IMMORAL ACTION. If Dorothy is treating this like a mini-level campaign (for an appointed post, oh Dorothy) then so can Roz, and she knows that game well. Using tricks from politics for what’s being treated as a mini campaign is only natural. She might be disingenuous, but she is not being an asshole.
If you’re finished insulting me, I never said Roz wasn’t an asshole. I’ve said she was a good person, albeit very flawed, and she’d make a good RA, and I do think that. I think Dorothy is the same way, though her flaws haven’t been highlighted as much as some of the others yet. I paid attention too, I just disagree with you. That doesn’t mean I’m not paying attention.
No, Dorothy doesn’t quite want to be the RA. What Dorothy wants is to be President of the United States of America. Being an RA is a stepping stone on that path. But it isn’t a goal she has any intrinsic desire for – she has openly stated this, in a very candid way.
This is /okay/, at least on its own merits. But it’s not a negation of Roz’s statement either.
Roz is basically following her sister’s path to the Dark Side. However, while Robin eventually was torched and destroyed by Obi-Wan on Mustafar with the resulting creature a pale shadow of its former self, Roz will be tempted only to realize the popular attention is going to turn her into Robin. Perhaps after having her hair replaced with a cybernetic replacement. Only then will she rise up and say, “You’ve failed your Trumpiness, I am a Jedi like some ancestor I actually like.”
Sadly, she’ll have all of her students killed by a certain cereal loving sister in the service of Snoke.
Basically, Dorothy, they’re telling you that you don’t do ‘people’ very well. I’m genuinely surprised that this is news to you!
Accept the paperwork! ACCEPT ITTTTTT!!!
Huh, so Dorothy didn’t talk about her ambition and strategy with anyone before she started. She really does not get that the list-approach isn’t going to win her point for fairness and not forgetting anyone but is seen as somewhat scary and unfeeling.
Still seems to me that what the floor wants from an RA and what administration wants are different things.
Is there anywhere I can read up on what the position is supposed to be?
It’s unknown in Germany (we neither have gender-separated dorms, nor two-bed dorms, and everyone is supposed to fend for themselves even as freshman).
RA duties might vary depending on university, but at mine they just kind of monitored their floor, plus were on call to deal with noise complaints and stuff. They also did health and safety/room inspections (they didn’t go through your stuff, but they had a checklist of things, like if you had a ton of dirty dishes laying around or stuff all over the floor that could be a safety hazard, or if you had nails or tacks in the walls to hold posters up (not allowed), or you had a hot plate or anything with a heating element (we had a group kitchen on every floor; the only thing you could use in your own room was a microwave), etc. If you were having issues with a roommate or a neighbor, the RA would be the first person in the chain of command that you’d go to to address the issue if you couldn’t work things out yourself, and they’d have to write people up if they caught underage residents drinking and shit like that, but they didn’t actively go looking for that kind of thing.
At my dorm, that also meant they were required to work at the front desk so many hours/week (our dorms had card keys to enter the building, and guests had to sign in at the desk before being allowed upstairs, and nonresidents could not go up by themselves; they had to call who they were visiting and have them come down to sign in). RAs also handled lock outs on their floor (to the tune of a $5 fee per time, though a lot of our RAs just let people into their rooms and didn’t bother with that paperwork), and we had a rotating RA on call on weekends – one RA out of our 9 would be the on-call person for emergencies and lock-outs on weekends and “after hours” when the front desk closed at 4am. The downside to being the on-call RA (aside from the fact that you were the one that got called for everything, from noise complaints to reports that the second floor smelled like pot again) was that you had to be there the whole time, so you weren’t allowed to leave the dorm, though it was pretty common for our RAs to just forward their room phones to their cell phones so they could go run to get something to eat.
What Roz and Dorothy both seem to be forgetting here is that…floor support more than likely doesn’t count for a whole lot when everything is said and done. IME, you apply to be an RA, and you go through an interview process. At my school, at the end of a semester when a lot of people were graduating or just leaving, they opened applications and took a pool of candidates and did a day of (really kind of stupid) group activity shit that honestly doesn’t tell you how a person is going to be as an RA, and then there were interviews with the higher ups in Student Housing. The people they hired outright got their assignments for whichever dorm and floor they needed to fill, and they might keep some of the others for consideration to become RAs if a spot opened up unexpectedly. And being an RA in one dorm didn’t always mean you’d stay there. Sometimes a spot would open, they decided they wanted an experienced RA there, so they had one of the RAs move to a new dorm or floor, and the newer RA would get their old assignment.
(Of course, I really doubt that would happen here since it’s just so convenient to have the main characters mostly in one dorm and on the same floor. But it would be interesting to see the character reactions if, say, Dorothy (or Roz) did get the open RA position…and then they moved her elsewhere to an ‘easy’ floor and put a more experienced RA in Ruth’s old room.
Seriously, I can think of at least two people off the bat who would LOATHE Dorothy as an RA, just for her style of RAing right now. Not ‘feel disconnected’, not ‘find her wanting’, but straight up LOATHE – Carla and Sal. I somehow doubt either of them would appreciate being turned into an itemized list and having the RA up your ass.
I don’t think this is an election metaphor – this was written MONTHS ago. It is eerily prescient though.
Billie has not appreciated any meddling in herself either. Only concern for Ruth. I don’t think Mary would either, but meeeeh.
Billie loathes Dorothy as an RA as well, but for an entirely different reason – she wants Ruth back. If that weren’t the case, I can see her being annoyed with Dorothy constantly asking how she was doing, but I don’t think she’d hate it the way Sal or Carla would. Like how she gets annoyed with Joyce or Walky asking how she’s doing on bad days.
I’m not sure about Mary. I doubt she’d be too annoyed with Dorothy until she didn’t get something she wanted.
Oh it’s an election metaphor, alright. This strip was probably drawn somewhere in late August or early September.
Carla called Dorothy “Little Miss Hillary Clinton Jr.” a while back, which is fitting. She’s the more qualified candidate on paper, but she doesn’t come across as personable as her opponent which is a massive liability.
I can see that! I’m talking result wise though, which Willis couldn’t have known in advance unless he’s psychic and/or was one of the folks who rightly worried about rural folks feeling ignored.
Unless Roz is a Bernie allegory, because she’s personable and socially progressive.
I can see it.
If this is an election metaphor, it’s a really shitty one – Roz looks more qualified. But even if she didn’t look more qualified, if you don’t have a hate on for her, she looks perfectly qualified. This isn’t a case where a complete moron is being more popular by being a bastard. This is a girl who’s good at connecting with people, applying for a job that requires connecting with people over the main character, who is pointedly not that great at connecting with people.
Like, Dorothy is filling me with confidence that she can be a president, but not an (idealized) RA. And the skills that would let her be an (idealized) RA are not the ones a president uses more or less at all.
Honestly, saying Roz is good at connecting with people feels a lot like saying that Trump is good with business: superficially true, but needs to be more-than-superficially true to be an actual asset to the position involved.
Have we seen Roz actually connect with anyone beyond the most shallow level of -feeling- connected? Moreover, has Roz demonstrated any ability to connect with those whose worldview doesn’t align with hers without trying to force them into alignment? I’m thinking of the hoops Roz made Dorothy jump through for her interview, of course blowing up at Joyce in gender studies class, her interactions with Mary, and even Roz’s interactions with Riley leaned pretty judgy. Especially considering two of those are her floormates, one is her roommate, and the last is her sister that she’s presumably lived with for the past decade+. Where are her conflict resolution skills?
I like Roz. I like her as a character, and by and large I would like her as a person if she existed. But I cannot imagine her being a good RA. I can’t see her putting in the hard work. What I can see is her putting in just enough work to continue to be popular, which comes fairly easily for her, and which has nothing to do with being a good RA (which, asidely, makes her pretty much Robin with a different target audience). Contrast that with Dorothy, who simply does not know how to slack off on a responsibility she’s committed herself to. The people skills don’t come as naturally for her, but she’ll work her butt off to be the best damn RA she can, and that counts for a lot more than natural talent (see e.g. Walky). That’s what we’re seeing on display here: Roz being popular but not really having anything else going for her, and Dorothy putting in detailed, though misguided, work. The misguidedness of Dorothy’s work can be corrected. Roz’s lack of really giving a damn is unlikely to be.
Roz might not be good at connecting with folks she has a hard time with day to day, but when they come to her with, or she even suspects they are having a real problem, she’s good at reaching out and offering resources for them – for example, when she began to suspect Joyce was attacked at the party and she offered her contact information for a therapist or crisis centre.
She won’t coddle bigotry, which is a plus for dealing with people like Mary or early Joyce. They do not deserve to have their bigotry coddled at the expense of their floor mates. For example, it’s not fair to Grace and Mandy to have to put up with Mary ranting angrily about their relationship and have to put up with it in their own home. Roz would be 10 million percent justified shutting her down and possibly reporting her.
And don’t discount day to day people skills – they are actually an important part of being an RA, because they help things run smoothly and get people to trust you more so they can open up with more important stuff later. Dorothy does not have that.
They would both make good RAs, but in different ways.
“when they come to her with, or she even suspects they are having a real problem, she’s good at reaching out and offering resources for them – for example, when she began to suspect Joyce was attacked at the party and she offered her contact information for a therapist or crisis centre.”
So this was that sequence of events
Before gender studies class, Roz was accidentally being insensitive until Dorothy finally blew up at her: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/03-the-first-step-towards-recovery/dont/
Here is Roz starting to walk away after said class, though looking conflicted: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/03-the-first-step-towards-recovery/caramel-2/
Here is Roz finally returning and pressing a card into Joyce’s hands, while failing to remember Joyce’s name (despite having it shouted at her), with zero personal support offered: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/03-the-first-step-towards-recovery/card-2/
This does not strike me as reaching out, this strikes me as doing just enough to not have something on her conscience she may have been indirectly responsible for. It’s also not really ‘suspects’ Joyce has a problem so much as had it shouted in her face that Joyce has a problem.
(which doesn’t make her a bad person or anything, she’s under no obligation to even do that much, but doesn’t scream RA material to me)
Roz had no way of knowing Joyce was assaulted until Dorothy screamed that Joyce was put through ‘horrible crap’ at the party, at which point she started suspecting what that horrible crap actually was. I don’t think Roz looks conflicted either – I think she’s puzzling through what happened in her head, trying to figure out what’s up. Not remembering Joyce’s name, even when it’s screamed at her, does not make it less genuine that she was concerned about her and wanted to help.
‘Reaching out’ can be anything as simple as checking in on someone and offering help – whether personal or professional. Roz offered her professional help, not personal help, which is fair enough considering A) She doesn’t even know her name, B) She doesn’t particularly like Joyce, and Joyce has spent almost all their interactions up until this point basically calling Roz a huge slut (and hell, even here, she initially wants Roz to go away and even after getting the card, accuses Roz of trying to get her into a coven) and C) She is not responsible for Joyce. If she WERE responsible for Joyce, I imagine she’d also have offered to talk. Much the way Ruth did when Amber’s dad was hospitalized.
Like you said, she’s not under obligation to do anything for Joyce, but she came up to her anyways and offered her professional help. She’s hardly warm and fuzzy to her, but that’s not the relationship they had at the time (or even really have now) and she was not responsible for her, the way she would be as an RA.
Trump isn’t good at business. The man had casinos fail, ffs, and has walked out of his life with less than he inheritted. He has lost money, with every advantage possible and abusing every trick in the book. However, even if he were good at business, that is not only not the president’s actual job, but it is a *BAD THING* for the president to run the country like a business. Trump hasn’t even sat in office and has pretty much wrecked things for it.
“I’m thinking of the hoops she made Dorothy jump through”
Dorothy was hostile to her interests. She was judgemental, and said as much out the bat. Making her jump through hoops /is better than she deserves/, because Dorothy patently wants something from her to which she isn’t entitled. Honesty about being a bastard isn’t actually not being a bastard. It’s just better than not owning it. And they /still/ have a pretty positive relationship.
“She exploded on Joyce mid-class” I’m going to need ot refer you up. I’m not fucking dealing with this today. Joyce /needed/ a kick in the ass. She was pretending it wasn’t her. She /pointedly/ avoided her own role in perpetuating heterosexism, and had really only cordoned off Becky. And in the end… Joyce trusts Roz. That was the literally the worst example you could raise, of not connecting with someone. She let Roz into a party she wanted to be safe. She /went out of her way and asked for Roz to be there/ at a party where she wanted to be safe. What do you *WANT*? For Joyce to hold up placards saying “I’m with Her” for Roz?
As far as “I can’t see Roz putting in the hard work”, she has literally done grunt volunteer work. Grunt volunteer workt hat had her on her feet.. This is a /completely misfounded idea/.
Yup, and we’ve already seen that with Carla responding hella aggressively to Dorothy’s “ooh, putting you in a list” dance earlier.
And well, yeah, both Sal and Carla come from backgrounds where attention equals danger and where someone keeping tabs on you is frequently the beginning of receiving violence or being fucked over.
Dorothy’s first day as RA:
“Hey, uh, Dorothy, ya mind if ah see that list ya made about me?”
“Oh, uh, sure!”
*list is promptly ripped into confetti size pieces*
“Thanks. See ya!”
Carla’s mysteriously went missing. Nobody knows what happened. Carla said something about ‘needing to test a homemade paper shredder’ for one of her classes.
There is pie. Lots and lots of pie.
Of course! And if Dorothy had gotten around to converting them to electronics, whenever she tries to open Carla’s file it refuses to open but it will BLARE All Star all day.
That is VERY true, and it’s something Dorothy just doesn’t get. Yet.
I mean, the list will of course be edited. There will be no mention of Ryan and Amazi-girl and Becky and the other dark secrets Dorothy is aware of is dark secrets.
But the very existence of a tab-keeping system is a problem in itself, and one that Dorothy has never been in the wrong end of (privilege!). Sal and Carla and Billie has EVERY reason to nope as far away from Dorothy and her list as possible.
Dorothy has had Mike user her sexual history against her twice.
I stand corrected. She still doesn’t get why her spreadsheeting is problematic.
Dorothy, logic doesn’t matter in politics anymore, only feelings and emotion. Feelings are easy to understand, and an emotional response is a very powerful thing. You can’t refute a feeling with logic. Logic requires reflection, which is mental effort that many people aren’t willing to expend.
That’s why one major political party has abandoned fact-based rhetoric and made their constituents feel instead; it’s made them immune to the other side’s logic-based arguments.
‘anymore’. It is increasingly seeming, in hindsight, like this basic fact has been true my entire adult life, and in all probability, for some time before. People just became progressively more skilled at leveraging it.
I mean, this is a fucking weird place to put this rant, because caring about feelings and emotions of your charges is a big part of RA-hood, even at the cynical, low level I ascribe to it. Dotty can handle the cynical, low level I ascribe to it, but it’s legitimately part of the skillset just the same.
amazigirl for RA
I think we’re about to find out why Dorothy didn’t get to Yale the first go around.
We already know.
She is a school misser.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/02-i-was-a-teenage-churchmouse/geniuser/
I think that may have been intentional. She probably did the math and saw that they accept more transfer students than direct applicants and was hoping to knock out her pre-requisites at a school just good enough to be considered a reasonable place to transfer from while still being cheap enough not to break the bank and leave her parents penniless.
Hmm. I thought I’d seen in one of the earlier go-rounds on this that Yale was actually harder to transfer into than to get admitted as a freshman.
I’d say her best bet would be to graduate from IU then get into Yale for grad school. That’s likely to be what matters more anyway. Yale Law? I assume she’s going for law if she’s set on being President. That’s the most common approach.
She’s probably majoring in Polysci, isn’t she? No one actually gets into politics that way.
You are right, Yale almost very few transfers. She would have had a better chance trying to get in with the freshman class. It’s not impossible, but very difficult to do. There’s nothing wrong with her being exceptional at IU and then going to a very good law school, like you said. If she thinks not getting into to Yale for undergrad specifically means she won’t be president, then she doesn’t have as much drive as I thought. I don’t think going to an ivy league is a requirement, nor does it automatically mean the program is good or a good fit. Her not getting into undergrad is just a detour on her path to presidency. If it’s her dream school, thats fair though. I wonder why it is her dream school.
Also, do schools reserve space specifically for transfers? I’m of the idea that the spots that get filled only get filled because some else gives up their spot somehow. Maybe it’s a combination of both…
As far as Yale->President goes, it’s all about the connections. It’s all networking.
Which, as we’re seeing now, is something Dorothy needs to get better at.
Interestingly the only recent Presidents to go to Yale as undergrads were the Bushes. Clinton and Ford both went to Yale Law School.
Goddammit Roz get over yourself.
And thus you learn one of the weirdest/harshest truths of politics, Dorothy. Regardless of how well you present your argument, and how logical a choice you may be, when it comes down to it, people STILL have a tendency to vote based on gut feeling, ranging from reasons as simple as “I like this guy. He gives me a good vibe.” to “She’s hot. I’ll vote for her because her opponent is an ugly bongo.”
So, a Bizarro Trump vs Clinton.
…yeah, I’d definitely support Dorothy here.
Nah, Roz would have to be like 50 million times worse, 50 times stupider, 40 million times less informed about how politics works and about a billion times as bigoted for that to be an apt comparison.
In one side this feels like it’s going to be lots of fun
But in he other hand I really don’t want to see a “civil war”nor a “”Roz Vs Dorothy” capaign, is just going to be a wercking ballof problems
Dumbing of Age: Civil War
I don’t want it either. I didn’t mind at first, until I read the comments. We’re getting a lot of repeats of this past election, which was brutal. People try to vilify Dorothy for shit that isn’t wrong. People ignore shit that Roz did that was wrong, and provide alternate explanations.
No, Dorothy isn’t the same as Clinton–she’s more charismatic. And Roz isn’t at all as horrible as Trump–she’s not a bigot or an idiot. But Dorothy is the more studious intellectual, and Roz is slimy and full of herself.
I come here to get away from that shit. And, yet, I’m not sure I haven’t already brought the shit myself, lashing out at people due to the Trump/Clinton analog.
I may have to do what I did on Facebook, and “unfollow” a lot of people, using my ignore list. Just temporarily, since I can’t cope.
I kind of hope they go outside the dorm and pick someone new . Someone older, which would be more realistic anyway. But this is good, because I think it might lead to Dorothy thinking about how she handles some things. She really hasn’t been revealed to have many flaws aso far, or needed to confront anything negative in herself, so this will maybe lead to some character growth for her. (This does Not mean I think she is a bad person, but everyone has flaws.)
I… people defending Dorothy here is a bit odd, the fact that she keeps a list of people’s problems, problems that can easily be used by the administration against them or by others, like, I have abusive parents and used to not be out about being trans anywhere but to a few people and just having that information lying around like that skeeves me out. :/
Two things on that:
1) Dorothy is asking people about their problems and concerns. If she runs into someone like me who straight up doesn’t want to talk, she can’t catalog much beyond “seems ok” or “seems snippy” or “seems depressed”. Similarly, if people don’t want to tell her personal stuff, they’re not obligated to, and it won’t be able to go on any list. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t LIKE a Dorothy type RA until she learned to leave me alone, but it’s not like I would be obligated to talk to her about my inner life or anything.
2. …Therapists do this too? While it would be better if Dorothy didn’t wave the list around in front of people and the fact that she’s doing so isn’t a good thing, it’s not harmful for it to exist if she keeps it private. If it’s your job to keep track of many people and help them resolve their problems, and if you don’t have incredible near perfect memory, you pretty much HAVE to write things down? It’s not like it’s official paperwork the admin gets access to. It’s just notes for her own use, and it’s all information given to her freely.
So long as the list stays private, there shouldn’t be any problems.
She has it in her hands. She is going to go put it in a spreadsheet later. Unless she’s an idiot, she keeps it all encrypted.
Now, she is being a bit silly having the spreadsheet out, where it makes her seem impersonal, rather than keeping it in her head and then typing on her phone afterwards, which is less conspicuous.
But the list itself isn’t a big deal unless it’s mishandled.
Even if she keeps it to herself, it is troublesome. She has no business keeping a database of everyone’s personal problems. Personal being the key word.
Being interested in other people’s problems is a good thing. Meticulously documenting them without their consent is not.
Making lists is fine. It’s literally the same thing as memorizing these things. If you can’t remember, you write things down.
The idea that you need consent to write things down for your own personal use is absolutely ridiculous. The idea that writing down what people have told you is wrong is ridiculous. Did none of you keep a diary?
Seriously, what principle of morality do you think it violates? Does it cause harm to others? Or is it unfair?
Writing them down and keeping it to yourself is fine. Flashing it to win arguments and loudly announcing you’re doing it is dehumanizing, kind of creepy, and potentially dangerous if it gets into the wrong hands. I’m not sure what Other Rachel told Dorothy, but if, say, Amber confided in her about her mental health issues and Dorothy had flashed her list, it’d be supremely dickish of Dorothy. A lot of the sensitive info RAs get is not for public consumption and Dorothy being cavalier about showing it is shitty.
Making people uncomfortable by treating them like a list is shitty. Flashing private information in front of people to win an argument is shitty. It can also cause very real harm – what if one of the insecurities Other Rachel had told Dorothy about was bullying related and made everything worse? Or if she’d come out to Dorothy and this outed her against her will? Dorothy playing so fast and loose with the information she’s gathered is not okay, point blank.
People seem to be taking this a bit far.
Amber has confided, if unintentionally, her secret id to Dorothy. Should we assume now that everyone knows it because obviously Dorothy wrote it down and everyone read it when she waved the notebook around?
No. Of course not.
She’s being to cavalier with the whole process and she’s eroding any trust and support she might have had, but there’s no reason to think OOC that she’s that much of an idiot.
I’d be far less inclined to trust her with anything important after this and even the little things can hurt, but lets no go overboard with how horrible she is.
That wasn’t even Amber’s list being waved around, it was Other Rachel’s. I’m just using it as an, admittedly worst case scenario, example. Hell, at that distance, it’d be pretty hard to read. The point is she shouldn’t be waving it around where people could see or grab it. Hell, she shouldn’t have it openly with her at all – that should be something she keeps in her room, and put the info on her phone until she can get to the written files later.
In this case you would need consent, though. For example, we all sign similar consent forms at the doctor’s office. Many medical databases are online now and people sign consent forms for their info to be put on a singular database, accessible to doctors where ever they go in the US, for example – than you have to decide whether that network is secure enough for you. HIPAA is still in effect but they’ll still ask you if you want to be filmed or put online.
People might be telling Dorothy deep dark secrets, or secrets related to identity that could hurt them if someone else found out. In that case, you get the person ALONE, let them know clearly why you are writing it down and what you are going to do with the physical information, and *ask* first.
It makes people antsy because it’s not simply a diary, nor is she an actual therapist or doctor. She is a student who in this case also happens to know several other people that these people know. It’s not so much that she shouldn’t remember stuff, it’s more like “don’t write down my inner thoughts and wave them at strangers in the hallway to prove how trustworthy you are.”And she’s doing it, like she said earlier, basically to show the admins how impressive she is. It also helps with liability – at my school RAs could lose their job for carelessly exposing confidential stuff.
People are really downplaying the types of issues students face and come to the school with, and that’s irritating to me. It can be as simple as “what meal plan should I buy Dorothy?” and it can be as serious as “Dorothy, I think I might be gay”. People want to know that their info is protected, so yes, she may want to think a little more about how she wants to store her data, namely by not letting other people know she’s got someone else’s info.
I don’t think Dorothy would write down deep dark secrets. They are easy to remember and associate with the right person. The daily stuff that is rather undramatic like “is stuck on current homework” is much harder to keep track of and associate with the right person.
But hopefully, her list is only for current events. It would make me uneasy to have such a list including history.
Would anyone of you confide in any RA about real, deep personal problems? Do you really think they are the right address for anything more than ” I’ve got a personal problem I need help with, could you point me to some resources?”
In a German university, the Students Union and the Student Facilities Organisation both provide resources for counseling and stuff but even if you do live in dorms, you are expected to find your own way there. It is nobody’s job to keep an eye on you or listen to your problems. I find it totally amazing that you seem to expect an university to provide such services, and at a really high level, too. This is a distinct difference between US and German education. Dorms in Germany exist because in large cities housing is expensive, they are not part of the educational package. Most of them are not on Campus and may house students from different universities. Most of them don’t even have a front desk, let alone monitoring of who goes in or out, or try to keep out alcohol.
You need to sign off on your doctors keeping chills and flus in databases just as much as serious infections and heavy medication.
And it may not be their job to help with the deep dark stuff, but it IS their job to point you towards the campus resources who can. Even if all that means in practice is giving something like the health centre’s phone number. Lots of universities provide services like that, but its no good if you don’t know they’re there and you’re too busy in the throes of a breakdown to do research – hence the RA.
Yes. I have had people come to me with serious information and other RAs I knew as well. The layout of campuses in Germany may be different, but mental health and students is a huge issue across the globe. The idea that it only happens in US is a huge myth. Of all the students you know, at least one of them has a mental illness. Most US student live on campus. Ergo, they eat, sleep, go to class there. There are a myriad of services provided, which include career services as well.
I really don’t think it’s babying anyone to have mental health services, especially since almost literally everything else is there and kids are paying tens of thousands of dollars to go. And many of these kids cant afford service elsewhere anyway, so why not? They wouldn’t get help at all if they actually had to pay (up to hundreds per session *with insurance*).
Like BBCC said, the RA can’t fix the problems, bit point them in the right direction – which is campus resources.
Ah, so maybe this is why going to university in Germany is so much cheaper. It’s one of the big philosophical differences. We do have mandatory Heath insurance and most universities are state-funded where buildings and paying the lecturers and staff is concerned. So you pay a couple of hundreds of Euros a year to attend. This does not include housing. You are free to organize your food intake yourself and most students live somewhere with a real kitchen, so they don’t have to have meal plans. You organize your own living, though you can try to get a place in a dorm (they are cheaper, but basicly just single-rooms with a bed, a wardrobe and a desk with somewhere attached communal kitchen and showers and a washer. No other services provided.)
Though the university or student unions provides services some counseling, this usually is about student-specific problem. For the rest, we do have mandatory health insurance – there a really just a few people who legally live here who manage to have now health insurance, either mandatory one or the voluntary one that need you to earn much above a arable to be eglible. And students have to prove they are insured as part of the application process.
And this covers health and mental health alike (though it’s sometime much more effective to pay for therapy yourself and get a therapist with the right specially for you problem, if you can afford it, as mandatory health insurance only covers psychoanalysis, cognitive behavioral therapy and one or two other methods and they used to be badly equipped for trauma-therapy. )
So a lot of Ruth’s problems would look different in Germany, as her possibility to get therapy would not hang on her being a student.
There have been discussions about wether there should be more supervision and coaching for students to reduce drop-out-rates, but overall the German approach seems to be to regard anyone attending a university as an adult with full responsibility for their lives and the US approach seems to treat that time as not-quite-adult.
Mav: Wait. Seriously? You think you legally need consent to write down something that another person told you willingly?
I’m not saying get literal legal consent. I’m saying it helps to ask first and let them know what you’re doing, which isn’t hard at all, and it helps to not wave your papers around telling people all about it. The medical stuff was probably a bad comparison because it made you think that I was saying it was the same thing. Its more with respect to asking and letting them know, when you feel you need to write down info that the *other person* may feel is something they wouldn’t want others to know, and there’s lot of stuff people night tell Dorothy that would be confidential to them.
So basically, consent here means verbal permission, not legalized consent as in a contract, but when you sign a contract, you are consenting (or not consenting) to something so the general idea is the same: you want to write private stuff down, get consent.
This.
It’s a big deal if you have any kind of problem you really don’t want recorded. Like no thanks I do not want my insecurities jotted down on a list that fucking Mike knows exists.
She just flashed her unencrypted uncoded footnote including spreadsheet to the whole floor, revealing in one broad stroke everyone’s business and insecurities and even tapped out the region of one of the students because the student made a mild comment about them not being as approachable.
Yeah, no, she’s not in any way making an effort to keep this data private or taking what she has collected seriously and that is indeed, as Lena notes, a threat to folks with abusive family, closeted sexualities or gender identities, and so on.
And her cavalier attitude to it all is definitely worrisome, because this list does have the opportunity to ruin some lives and she’s acting like it’s a no-big-deal thing she can whip out at anytime to win arguments and can be seen openly filling out even when students note that it makes them feel uncomfortable.
It’s definitely uncool and definitely looks bad for her.
I really doubt it’s got anything confidential enough to ruin lives on it. Not anything that’s not already common knowledge to the floor at least. I don’t think anyone’s been confiding their deep dark secrets to her yet. And now that they know about the lists and how cavalier she is with them, they likely won’t.
The keyword is “yet”. If she were RA, she’d have a lot more confidential stuff to put in there. And it doesn’t even need to be life-ruining to be an issue.
It wouldn’t take a very big chink in a person’s armor for somebody like Mike or Mary to find a way to slip a knife in.
True. Though less, since no one would be confiding in her.
It’s not like some of this isn’t written down anywhere anyway. Ruth was officially informed of Billie’s alcoholism and we can assume she was told Carla is trans as well. Already in the system.
Sure, but just because the school knows, for example, that Carla is trans doesn’t mean she’s publicly out and saying she was trans out loud would be not just rude and irresponsible, but potentially FATAL to Carla if the wrong person found out. Now, I’m 99% sure she is out, but the point is that just because you’re informed by the school doesn’t make it public knowledge.
Well duh.
My point was that writing it down doesn’t magically make it public knowledge.
It’s written down and passed out to those who need to know. (Asma had a printout with Billie’s picture and the alcoholic warning in one of the early strips.) They don’t then memorize it and eat the paper like in some spy movie.
They also don’t post it in the hall for everyone to read.
Taking notes on things you need to know is not, in itself, some horrible violation. Waving it around, like Dorothy is doing, is sketchier, but she’s not actually passing it around for everyone to read, nor is there any reason to think she’s got anything really confidential on that page.
My point is, if she has private or sensitive information PERIOD, she needs to keep it to herself and not wave it around like an idiot, because that can blow up in her face quickly.
I’m not saying she’s the ultimate evil for writing it down. I’m saying she needs to be better at keeping that shit quiet and that ‘some of it is already written down’ isn’t really a good defence for this.
Ruth herself abused her access to that information:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/crimson-squad/
Even if whatever means by which this information is stored is itself secure, that doesn’t protect it from the people who are ALLOWED to access it.
Heck Ruth having access to that information was what made her set her sights on Billie to begin with. She set Billie up as the target of her abuse because of her past.
It’s creepy. I’m not sure if anyone revealed anything very personal to her yet, but now that people see how she keeps track of things they telll her, no one will want to tell her anything.
Yaay oncoming RA election arc. To add insult to injury, they could do that til the end, THEN Ruth get to keep her post instead.
RAs aren’t elected! Unless Willis is going to do this differently than what happens IRL. They’re appointed by college or dorm management people. Ruth was appointed. People wouldn’t have elected her! And the people who hired her liked her because she kept order.
Now that it’s probably coming out HOW she kept order, they’d probably be more likely to choose someone with better people skills, which would point to Roz, if all they had to choose from was Roz and Dorothy. Though Dorothy is certainly no Ruth.
I served as an RA in one of the worst dorms on my campus for four years. With that being said I would like to offer the following. It takes a special type of thick-skinned madman to be an RA. Between these two Roz would last the longest. Not much longer. But still longer. And as an RA it also gave me great pleasure to remove people like Mary. It always came down to the fact that they were going out of their way to attack others based upon beliefs of faith. It’s all well and good to have faith, but when it’s used like that I made it very clear that I was willing to turn a blind eye when the dorm eventually turned on those sorts of folks and politely suggested they either change their ways or begin looking for other forms of housing.
Ugh at every comment claiming this is an election metaphor. It does Roz an enormous disservice because she’s NOT a bad candidate. Like, if this is meant to be a metaphor for the election it’s a terrible one because Trump’s successes weren’t rooted in him being a likable guy, as much as his supporters may try to claim they are, they’re rooted in him exploiting the intense bigotry and fearfulness of the American people.
It is one. And she is. Yes, right now her supporters are claiming she’s a likable person when she’s never been. She’s always been portrayed as a jerk. She’s being a huge, huge jerk right now in the comic and people are defending her.
No, Roz isn’t as bad as Trump, but that’s because Trump was less believable. But it is the same situation. Dorothy has been shown as mostly a good person. Roz has been shown as mostly a bad person. But some people are choosing Roz.
Because she’s not a mostly bad person. You’re equating niceness with morality but they aren’t interchangeable.
No, but a moral person is a nice person, since a moral person does not want to hurt others. A good person cares about other people.
Stop. Defending. Evil. That shit is why Trump won.
A moral person is not universally nice that’s the most childish thing I’ve ever heard. The only time we see Roz being genuinely and willfully mean is when she’s interacting with a bigot whose outlook hurts people. And even then when she thinks that person is seriously hurting she offers help. Roz absolutely cares about other people and you’re just stubbornly mischaracterizing her.
I didn’t say they were universally nice. I said they are nice.
Roz is being a complete asshole RIGHT NOW. She’s smarmy as shit. Are you telling me that Dorothy is a bigot?
Roz was an asshole to Leslie. Is Leslie a bigot?
Roz was an asshole to Joyce when Joyce had her LGBT epiphany. So right when Joyce became not a bigot, that’s when Roz got mad at her.
I refuse to accept your rewriting of what actually happened in this comic, because you like Roz (probably since she’s kinda like you.)
She’s not really. She’s outlining why she is a legitimate candidate sort of like how Dorothy did literally yesterday.
She was kind of rude to Leslie and let her mouth get ahead of her brain because she was angry about, you guessed it, a bigot.
Joyce didn’t magically stop being a bigot because she didn’t revile Becky for being queer. She wasn’t even really owning her own bigotry she was outsourcing her condemnation to the church while ignoring her complicity with that selfsame bigotry. Roz got mad at her because she was being a hypocrite. Hell, Joyce was condemning the church while at the same time trying to degay Ethan if I recall the timeline correctly.
I don’t even really like Roz all that much, but I have small patience for people demonizing progressives for being too mean to people who treat them like shit.
Yes. People are out here being harassed and shot and screamed at. I am not here for waiting for people to come around, and I am not here for members of the dominant group complaining that I won’t hold their hand through it. I stick around my friends, but then again I don’t tend to make friends with virulent bigots anyway. Do I believe in politeness and stuff? Sure, but If you feel the worst thing that can happen to you is your feelings being hurt, then you are a very lucky person and I won’t feel that bad about it if your feelings do get hurt, especially if you were being a bigot to other people.
There is that, yeah. Like, my fiancee had a breakdown and wanted me to flee the country because of real genuine fear that me and mine could easily end up in concentration camps and because of the swell of hate crimes targeted at all the usual groups as well as the swell of real actual literal nazis coming out of the woodwork.
And yet, I’m supposed to smile at the fuckers who voted overwhelmingly for the guy openly promising to make life literally fatal for me and mine and act like their sexist, racist, homophobic temper tantrum was out of “economic insecurity” rather than a real belief that the lives of me and mine are literally worth less than theirs?
Yeah, no. I’m barely hanging on as it is, I don’t have the energy to babysit my oppressors and reassure them that they are still good people as they smash my face in with their heel.
Cerberus: And yet if a kid in one of your classes had the kind of revelation that Joyce did, maybe that what their family and church had been supporting was so screwed up, you’d want to nurture that right? Not push them into admitting they really had personally been evil too.
You got engaged, Cerb?
Congrats. I wish you and yours all the best.
thejeff: Roz isn’t a teacher. That’s not her job and it’s not her responsibility. That’s why Leslie tried to shut her down, because it wasn’t conducive to a positive discussion. Yes, Roz was wrong if we pretend she’s a professional teacher whose job it is to present the course material to her students but she’s not and it’s not.
Congratulations on your engagement, Cerberus! <3
I’d say there’s a difference between the oppressor who’s still doing the oppressing, and the oppressor who’s realizing the wrongs that they have done and are having a Joyce-style change-of-heart epiphany. You’re not required to forgive either of them, but they definitely don’t belong in the same categories either.
Oh, and let me also say congrats, Cerb. … unless it’s been on for a while and it’s super-crass that I didn’t notice it earlier. In which case…. um… have a nice day?
Good Is Not Nice.
You’re so nice.
You’re not good,
You’re not bad,
You’re just nice.
I’m not good,
I’m not nice,
I’m just right.
I’m the Witch.
You’re the world.
— Into the Woods
“Niceness” is a tool, not a personality trait. – Gavin de Becker
Oh, yeah, if it was one of my students, I absolutely have the energy to hand-hold them through every discovery and frankly, I have the personality type where I do that hand-holding work more often than I do not even when I’m off the clock and cheer small growths by everyone. Hell, it’s why I love Joyce as a character.
Heck, right now, I’ve got a student who’s fallen in with a bad crowd that’s trying to recruit him into some vile sexist and white supremacist beliefs and so every little step he makes back out of that swamp is a cause for celebration for me personally.
But I wouldn’t begrudge a student who’s been targeted by this kid who writes him off or wants nothing to do with hand-holding him out of this bad path he’s on or snapping at the kid about finally realizing that non-white people are people or that making triggered jokes around folks with PTSD isn’t actually funny.
Also, thanks everyone for the well-wishes. It’s an all-of-a-sudden thing, but I’m really excited by it.
Congratulations!
I wish you two the best!
Democrats not taking him seriously and racist jackasses are why Trump won.
I’m so fucking sick of “that is why Trump won” being used to shut down every argument now. Roz is not evil. She’s not even a bad person. She has flaws, but she means well.
Seriously Trump didn’t win because oppressed minorities were too mean to bigoted people he won because bigoted people don’t actually need an excuse to exercise their prejudice.
That’s not a very good argument. If this were a metaphor, someone with no qualifications at all who happens to be really bigoted, like Mary, would win. And Roz is not a terrible person. In fact, neither of them are terrible people. They are just different. Dorothy represents to me the type of ally that is “respectable” whereas Roz is louder about her feelings and her views and doesn’t care to risk her positon for them. This can be a fault, but I can see this coming in handy a la Becky. I’ll play devil’s advocate and ask whether Dorothy might do the same thing, considering she thinks she needs this for her records just as much as she needs this to help people. Keep in mind that not knowing Becky was there was one of the things Ruth would have been disciplined for.
Like, I hope Dorothy would but I don’t trust that she would the same way I do Roz because having a good name just doesn’t matter to her the way it does to an aspiring POTUS like Dorothy.
Not knowing Becky was there was one of the things Mary threatened Ruth with. Whether Ruth would actually have been disciplined for it is unknown. Probably strongly depends on circumstances.
I have the opinion that she most likely would have, especially because everyone else knew but her, and had she paid the slightest attention she would have noticed – it’s very hard to live on a floor and not know who your freshman are. Even the people who you don’t know personally, you know because you see them all the time. Unless someone in admin (like Leslie, or someone higher) can vouch for her, Becky is probably gonna get kicked off campus because shes not even a student there, let alone living in a dorm and eating that dorms food for free. Institutions are not very kind to people who don’t have the privilege of being members, which is fucked, but it happens a lot.
Becky would certainly get kicked out. (Though she’s not eating for free – she’s sharing off of Joyce’s food card.)
Whether Ruth would get in trouble for not having noticed her is the question. It’s not like the floor is tightly locked down. She’s Joyce’s friend and Dina’s girlfriend, so she’s around a lot. Doesn’t mean she’s living there.
Now if someone officially complained to Ruth and Ruth still didn’t do anything about it until they went over her head then she could be in trouble. Short of that, she’d likely get a slap on the wrist and told to pay more attention.
Assuming of course that she wasn’t in the hospital on suicide watch.
No no, we obviously need Amber as the new R.A!
Dedicated R.A by day, masked crimefighter by night.
Also this conveniently opens up a bed for Becky (with Dina) – Win Win!
I know this should be funny, but this bears too much of a resemblance to a recent election. The only difference is choosing the next RA rests in the hands of the supervisors and Dorothy is more popular with them than Roz.
proof of why a high Charisma score will always win popularity contests over high Intelligence/Lore score.
Oh lordy! I just had a flash on Dorothy trying to learn to have charisma! Naturally, poor Walky and Joyce would be the ‘test subjects’!
As long as it’s not Mary.
Everybody loves being treated like a school project you need an A on Dortohy! It’s no dehumanizing whatsoever!
This might be her biggest character flaw for me and I can’t believe it’s only become apparent in my mind now. Too be far it shows up very rarely bc Dorothy is largely a good person who treats others with respect. Yet I recall her buying clothes for Walky, not bc he wanted them but so he could catch the “next girl”, presuming Walky would need to change to have anyone but Dorothy like him. Just eeeugh, people aren’t projects.,
Or less charitably (aka, more accurately, as always), she’s just been better at hiding it.
Roz is not the worst possible choice, but is she even gonna be eligible for the position? She was indirectly threatened with expulsion for the sex tape because it was on IU property. But I sense something bad will happen if this goes on for too long, i.e. Mary showing support for Dorothy just to spite Roz, and Dorothy having to deal with repricussions when she doesn’t even like Mary. Though, that begs the question, would Mary vote for her roommate who won’t be shamed about her sexual nature, or a non Christian? Or does she try to unsuccessfully throw herself into the position?
It’s not an elected position! Think who the last RA was!
I know it’s not elected, it’s an application process like any other job. But these could happen. Mary keeps thinking she’s the highest moral authority in the hall, she might delude herself into thinking she should be in charge so she can get her way. Mary’s spiteful and manipulative, and she’s much more likely to try to get Dorothy on her side by using new tactics.
To Mary, Roz isn’t Christian either. Catholics ‘don’t count’ to a lot of fundamentalists. Something something slutty, something something devil/Mary/Pope worshippers, something something Whore of Babylon something something cannibalism.
No, Dorothy, NOOOOOO!!!!
I think you keeping the list is already a sign you don’t care, unless your brain has problems forming memories, but SHOWING THE GODDAMN FUCKING LIST FOR EVERYONE TO SEE? NOOOO!!!!
If all it takes for Dorothy to feel cared-about as a person is someone else having a creepily detailed and meticulous list of everything about her, color-coded so as not to accidentally mistake her for someone else, which they occasionally consult for a cordial wave in her direction… that seems like a big problem. Because what she’s saying here is ‘I have reduced you all to these piles of info-bits which I am keeping carefully separate, how can you feel I don’t connect with you well?’
I thought yesterday that Roz probably had a more solid social presence in the floor in general than Dorothy, and it looks like that’s true. What’s also clearly true, in this exchange, is that the perception is that Roz genuinely cares about the other girls on the floor, and Dorothy cares about her lists.
I used to work in a call center, and my performance was judged not by my technical abilities or my efficiency but by my customers’ feelings about me as provided by survey after the call was over. The highest-performing reps in the call center were generally not those who had insane technical skills and knew all about the phones, but the ones who chatted with the customers, who made them really laugh, who shared and listened to family stories. The technical/efficient ones did okay a lot of the time, yes, but they didn’t excel according to the metrics.
That’s what we’re running into here, it seems to me, in terms of the perceptions of at least Agatha and Rachel. They feel Dorothy is the insanely technical/efficient one, who will get your problem solved in jig time and be polite and professional, and Roz is the one who will get your problem solved and leave you with a warm happy friend-feeling. Both will get your problem solved! Both would be good at the job! But they prefer the latter.
Roz is gonna win this one, isn’t she.
She’s a populist who does outrageous things, tells people what they want to hear and is known to fly off the handle.
She doesn’t actually stand for what she’s running for and has no qualifications of any kind.
Her
running materoommate is a scheming, black-hearted LGBT-hating monster with a fake public persona, a moral high horse, and a record of attempts to harm “acceptable targets” and deny them their basic humanity.Meanwhile, Dorothy is trying to use calculated strategy and to that end keeps important tactical information on a medium which can easily be stolen. And Mike has already shown an interest in sabotaging her.
I’m guessing Roz will win by appointment even though she loses to Dorothy in every other aspect, while Mike taunts Dorothy with whatever dirt he can find and maybe even whispers in Chloe’s ear to influence the outcome.
Afterwards, Roz’s actual administration will grind down to doing whatever she wants, having her friends and well-wishers do most of the work, and kicking back while Mary does her level best to seize the real power and destroy the country. Uh, I mean the wing. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
You fail. Saying that Roz is in any way comparable to Trump is a fail of epic proportions, even if the rest of your argument didn’t have huge holes.
For instance, I have no idea where you get that Roz “tells people what they want to hear,” or that “she doesn’t actually stand for what she’s running for.” For the record, Dorothy has the exact same qualifications as Roz, which, yes, as far as I can tell are none, which is why, according to the information that I’ve been given, the RA position does not go to a freshman.
Unlike running mates, Roz did not pick her roommate, and I can’t think of ANYONE less likely to not stand up to Mary than Roz, except possibly Carla – certainly not Dorothy.
Well at first I thought my connections were only just sketchy, but now I have to erase this whole chalkboard full of crazy scribblings!
For real though, I’m not the only one getting an election 2016 vibe from this, so maybe someone better qualified can figure out the metaphors in play here.
The thing is, the desired skills for president and RA are completely different (assuming I’m understanding the RA job description – we have none of those here, and I’m not looking at Ruth’s performance as an example). “It feels like I could have a beer with them, y’know” is completely irrelevant for a president, but if you’re supposed to come to an RA with your problems, “personable” is fairly high on the list.
As Other Rachel put it “she connects with me better.” This is important, because it can make the difference between you coming to someone with a problem and, well, not coming to someone with a problem.
I have to wonder if a lot of the 2016 election vibe people are getting here is because it’s still a very raw and close event, timewise. Right now, everything relates back to the election still.
“She’s a populist”
No.
“tells people what they want to hear”
No.
“and is known to fly off the handle.”
ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS.
“She doesn’t actually stand for what she’s running for and has no qualifications of any kind.”
She is an actual practicing activist with connections to assistance organizations and who has worked at connecting students to them.
“Her running mate roommate is a scheming, black-hearted LGBT-hating monster with a fake public persona, a moral high horse, and a record of attempts to harm “acceptable targets” and deny them their basic humanity.”
This is just dumb. This is a dumb thing to say.
This whole post is very “people who don’t tolerate bigotry are the real bigots” nonsense.
Okay, I can’t be the only one reading Dorothy’s lines in Tara Strong’s voice right now.
Does Dotty think she’s … inevitable?
Okay, now I’m hoping Ruth comes back in a blaze of glory. Hopefully Chole will see what’s going on and argue that Ruth is the only qualified candidate willing to take the job, and the drinking was just part of a mental breakdown she’s now seeking help for.
Dorothy has her heart in the right place, but doesn’t yet understand how people work (should probably slap some Psych courses on her schedule). And Roz is just an obnoxious brat. I’m willing to bet everything that she’s only doing this because Dorothy’s political ambition reminds her of her sister.
Ruth’s drinking isn’t what made her a bad R.A. It didn’t help but she also threatened people with violence and ignored the duties of her job. In short, ANYONE ELSE would be better….well, but Roz. Hell, Roz would be better even if she’s unlikably likable.
No, but the mental breakdown was a good part of what made her a bad RA.
In therapy and with more supervision, she might be much better at it.
It’s also not clear how much of the violence Chloe knows about.
But Ruth was also violent and abusive toward the kids in her care. If I were a parent, I wouldn’t want my kids anywhere near here. If I were a studen, 8 would try to move out rather than spend more time under her rule. Sure, we as the audience know that she needs help, but wow, was she a bad RA.
Especially if you’re a freshman and required to live on campus. Yeeeeeikes.
So, it looks like Chloe is showing preference for the girls on the floor and doesn’t seem to have a waitlist (which makes sense because, as Leorale pointed out above, Ruth was considered the best of the applicants and the rest were apparently way worse).
The girls we know of on the floor are Joyce, Dorothy, Amber, Billie, Sarah, Sal, Dina, Ruth, Roz, Carla, Mary, Sierra, Mandy, Grace, Rachel, Other Rachel, Agatha, and (presumably) Meredith who will be in here either next storyline or the one after.
….Chloe, your prospects for RA are FUBAR.
I’m still not convinced Roz is a bad choice. Also… Sierra? Sierra might have potential, depending on how assertive she can be.
I think quite a few of them would make overall decent, but flawed, RAs. I’m just being snarky. 😛
Is Chloe actually showing preference for girls who already live on the floor? If it’s a position of authority, I’d think she’d strongly prefer a stranger, without any preexisting dramatic relationships with her charges.
New terrible prediction: Roz and Dorothy’s campaigns cause them both to fail, because said campaigns prove that they’re way too entangled with their floormates to wield power responsibly. 🙂
A floor resident might be preferable. I imagine it would make for less paperwork concerning rooming arrangements (and Chloe is already on record for liking little paperwork), and familiarity with people you’re supposed to advise is a plus.
Dorothy said she was the best choice so long as they were picking from the floor, which implies to me that Chloe may have expressed a preference for someone already living there – which would have pre-established relationships, yes, but it would also mean they don’t have to go through the hassle and paperwork of moving and they understand the dynamic and general current events of the floor without having to move into it, and they can start almost immediately after training rather than need training and then the move and then all that work.
The convenience and expedience factors may be better because it’s a month into the semester. Even if they have a waiting list, what are the odds those kids haven’t sought new jobs or aren’t swamped with essays or something?
Dorothy seems to be campaigning for Chief of Staff, not RA. The job isn’t about Deep Data. Nor publicly admitting that the people around you are just means to an end.
Honestly, Dorothy’s entire personally looks to me like she’s better suited to a career in civil service or administration, more generally, than as a politician.
*personality damnit
Poor Dorothy,
“The Map is not the Territory.”
Dorothy’s luck is that she’s going to have the Presidency dissolved with the United States moving toward a Parliamentry system by the time she’s graduated.
Eh, then she can be Prime Minister. I don’t think it would matter to her.
… or, well, no, she’d be super-interested in the changes, but so long as she gets into the highest office she’ll have met her aspirations.
“She seems approachable? Like you could get a beer with her?” XD
(not that The Election of 1800 is any better of a metaphor for this than the election of 2016, but as with most things, all my thoughts have now been replaced with Hamilton lyrics, so…XD)
Calling it now: Chloe will give the job to Roz and Dorothy. They will have to cooperate. Hilarity, shenanigans and general tomfoolery might ensue.
Option 2#: Billie takes the job (with or without Chloe’s blessing) out of pure spite.
Option 3#: Sydney Yus gets it.
*sigh* #2 and #3 not 2# and 3#.
I’m sorta liking the whole Good Politician – Bad Politician dichotomy Dorothy and Roz have going here.
It’s turning out quite…realistically.
In that Roz is the one with the experience and the realistic care for her constituents who is campaigning because her constituents want her to, and Dorothy is the one with no experience who wants the job for the prestige and sees her constituents more as stats in a spreadsheet rather than people.
Yes, very realistic, just not the way most of the thread thinks.
Both of them care about people but have selfish motives as well. Neither has any experience.
Comes down to where you stand on personal charisma v. expertise, really. I’d take the latter any day.
Personal charisma *IS* expertise for this specific job tho. They’re /aligned/. That’s what all this “lol this is 2016” blather really misses.
We live in a Republic. Not a Democracy.
(why do I have to keep saying this?)
I mean, we live in a republic, but so does pretty much everyone else – the list of monarchies and theocracies is pretty short (I’m pretty sure the only monarchy left by this point is N. Korea) Republic, in practical terms, only means “A government neither monarchic nor theocratic.” Estadounidense live in an indirect democracy, and a republic.
Okay… Dorothy is having her first dry run at elections.
“MOM-ISH?!?!
“THat’s it, go to your room!”
+1