The Racist Pumpkin brags that paying no income tax makes him smart, then immediately after, when asked about it by a reporter, insists he never said that.
Quotes from my Facebook feed right now:
“Growing Up The Racist Pumpkin: Ivanka The Racist Pumpkin Tells All”
“How a Cool Clinton Drove The Racist Pumpkin Over The Edge”
“Never afraid of the press, The Racist Pumpkin always is ready to give an honest answer.”
That is why we only use comment sections now! That way we can waste time on the computer instead of doing that other thing like me and… well… just about everything! XD
Aw, that’s lame. Dorothy broke up with Danny and it was mostly Danny’s issues at fault, but now she’s projecting that onto Danny and Amber’s breakup, which is due to Danny confronting Amber about her own unhealthy issues. So their breakup totally justified in Dorothy’s mind now :\
That’s a thing that I love and that rings true for me, even as I cringe mightly at it: Dorothy doesn’t understand what Amber’s saying and thinks it’s the same “for the best” she broke up with Danny. And thus a big problem is overlooked.
Danny made it clear he was following her to her college choice, even though he had no idea what to take.
She put her political ambitions before her relationship with Danny. She told him flat out, don’t do it. I am going on from there to Yale/Harvard whatever, and you will never have the grades for it. I don’t want you there.
And she appeared to have very little problem adjusting to her decision. She was embarrassed when he showed up anyway, and then went on anyway.
So, she is capible of emotional distance when it suits her needs.
Amber on the other hand? But, she is engaging in conversation: with Walky on the roof, with Sal, now with Dorothy.
I disagree. She’s extremely empathetic and compassionate. Just look at her interactions with Becky (even when Becky was being really jealous), or with Carla (even when her boyfriend picked a fight with her and it would have been easier to take his side), or right here when she can’t help but smile at what a huge dork Walky is.
The fact the she has ambitions and is able to prioritize her long-term goals do not make her cold or detached.
She wasn’t embarrassed by Danny following her to college. She was no longer happy in the relationship. That much is pretty clear to me, at least. I feel like her compassionate nature might be the only reason she didn’t dump Danny sooner. She probably hoped that he would come to his senses and see how the two of them wanted completely different things, and that would soften the blow. It would have, but he wasn’t willing to see it.
Eventually, she had to just bite the bullet and cut him loose. It would have been better to do it sooner, and just admit it wasn’t working, but pretty much everyone learns those lessons the hard way like that.
You should definitely be advised about the comments from pretty much all the strips where Sal and AG are at the rally, after they spot Ryan. If you hadn’t noticed / guessed already, there’s a lot of potentially triggery discussion there.
We can always hope that Amber is eventually like “You two should date” and then after a few weeks together they decide to go for it and then we get our Slipshine… As long as Slipshine is still in business and one of Willis’ children or grandchildren have a talent for it that is.
I am pretty sure that this is how it’ll play out. Jumping onto your best friend’s ex is terrible, but there’s nothing wrong with it if everyone involved just clears the air with one another, and I think Amber deserves to actually bury things with Danny before he gets with Ethan (and Ethan specifically. It wouldn’t really be Amber’s business if he got involved with someone else).
What I’m hoping though, is that Amber wants them together because she wants them to be happy, rather than “if they’re together they’ll recognize that I’m awful garbage and get rid of me like I deserve.”
Except in every sitcom ever, where it TURNS OUT they weren’t actually ok with their ex dating their best friend but it needed to happen and they needed to get jealous before they realied it!
Talking of hypothetical ships:
Which of our nerd characters would produce threesome fantasies, like a Danny-Ethan-Amber triangle? Amber does have a weird fascination for male pairings in her slash-fic. Has she ever added females? Or an incarnation of herself?
I mean, I wouldn’t really say that. The only time Dorothy’s ever had anything negative to say about Danny was their breakup, and Amber basically explodes in adoration for him and only really got held back by her self loathing and reliance on her alter.
Spending his childhood with Amber probably fine tuned Ethan into a compliment machine who actively seeks out and destroys self deprecation with tactical precision.
Dorothy: Danny for the last time I don’t want a serious relationship I don’t have time for that.
* not even a week later*
Dorothy: okay look I know what I said a few days ago about not having time for her dating, but this is my new boyfriend and we need to commandeer your shoes.
man i think yesterday someone was like “hey you should put up a little faq that’s exclusively about character stuff that’s remembered shittily over and over”
Willis, you have put out a huge amount of storytelling over the years: not in one universe but several. With a lot of characters. With lots of details.
Trying to remember everything…needs research on you. The only cartoonist I do that while staying even with the current ones. Or trying too.
PS maybe of the ‘shittily remembered items” are just trying to pull your chain? Like, everybody knows Sal is AG, hehe.
It’s Dorothy never ever ever ever having said “I don’t have time to date you, that’s why I’m dumping you.” That’s something Danny suggested once when he was pissy. But that’s what’s remembered — not Dorothy’s actual explanation, which is that Danny saw Dorothy’s aspirations as nonserious and that he was blindly following her in a way that was undercutting his own potential aspirations when she was Just Not That Into Him anymore.
And Danny’s bitter, false accusation is what’s remembered and often weaponized against Dorothy as if it’s something she said herself.
I don’t want to make you angry, Willis, but I kinda think it’s a fault of the text.
When Danny does say “If she says she can’t have a boyfriend because she’s going to be moving to another school,…” Dorothy acts like she feels all guilty and never corrects him.
Sure, there are plausible reasons for that. It would have seemed weird. And she quickly became angry that he was upset at her for dating someone else. And then the conversation turned to Amazi-Girl.
But I think it’s perfectly understandable that people think that Danny’s summation was accurate. I mean, she did mention those things–it was more a mixed up summary.
I mean, I’m the type to correct people when they hate on a character for something they didn’t actually do. And I never noticed this one. I thought it was at least partly accurate, albeit uncharitable.
Wow, a bit to much on the back lash maybe? Thing is I don’t remember either one of them saying this I’m just paraphrasing or if anything else talking out my ass. Look if your annoyed about how people are constantly forgetting that one part of your 6 year long story than I’m sincerely sorry. But it feels like you slightly lashed out at me there, I’m not upset though just thought that wasn’t tactful.
I feel bad for Dorothy on this front – cuz I don’t think anyone treats her ambitions seriously, except Walky and maybe Joyce.
Her parents think it’s a phase she’ll pursue until she finds the right guy. Danny thought it was just some cute childish thing she’d give up once she decided to settle for something lesser. I sincerely doubt any of her teachers growing up treated her seriously about it – and everyone else on the damn floor seems to treat her ambition as a running joke. And Dorothy has the patience of a saint, so she doesn’t lose it with them over that often… but of course, she’s a young woman so when she does lose it, it’s her fault because she should’ve been yet more patient with people who are in the habit of making light of her life’s ambition. *eyeroll*
I don’t know if this is also discussed often in comments, but:
what annoyed me about their breakup, back at the time, was not about the (perfectly valid) reason, but about timing instead. I got the impression, from a few strips (first when Joe correctly anticipated the breakup, then when she asked for Ruth’s advice), that Dorothy was already considering dumping him. So, if it wasn’t just an angry reaction to Danny’s words (“maybe you’ll like it here and change your mind about leaving”), it was not very nice of her to wait until right after Danny had moved to IU with her…
I realize that we do not know much of what happened that summer, and Dorothy is now one of my favorite characters anyway, but… there, I said it.
I thought that she actually hoped he would get the strong hint before attending the same college she did. Or maybe things might have dragged on longer if he hadn’t shown up there. But when he did show up, she was unhappy and still trying to find a way to let him down easily until his condescension pissed her off.
That Joe never was in doubt Danny would get dumped showed – in my perception at least – that everybody but Danny had understood this.
What Dorothy wanted was for him to realize on his own that their relationship needed to end because she was afraid of hurting him, failing to realize that putting it off just made things worse until finally having to say it.
Danny was getting really clingy and fixated on Dorothy (or likely some imaginary idealized version of her) to the exclusion of his own needs. He basically stopped being his own person, and expected her to do the same, which was harmful for both of them.
As someone who got that hung up on someone once — *sigh* okay, twice — before, I can absolutely attest that breaking up with him was the best thing she could do for him, especially since she was clearly no longer happy in the relationship with him.
It hurts and it sucks, but the relationship was no longer healthy, and ripping that bandage off was the fastest way to help Danny get back into a mental state where a healthy relationship was even possible
This is what I mean when I say people don’t give Danny enough credit. Dorothy and Amber can say that breaking up with him was the best thing for him but it was ultimately a self serving act. Dorothy broke up with Danny because he didn’t truly believe in her aspirations while simultaneously, possibly giving up his own. Amber broke up with him from her own paranoia about Sal and wanting to perpetuate her one sided vendetta and continue being Amazi-girl. Now these are very valid reasons to breakup (especially Amber as it was hinted as potentially abusive in the future possibly, maybe) but the only one who could know what’s best for Danny is Danny and he was still invested in both relationships. And yeah maybe Danny will come out the other end a happier person but that will be because of his own decisions not because his exes thought it was best for him even if it was.
I’m not saying Dorothy or Amber did anything wrong. Danny is happier…or was anyway. But that’s not on them that’s on him. Just like your happiness after your situation is because of you. (All the hugs to you by the way) And in fairness to Amber she didn’t actually say it was what was best for him just that it was a good thing. Like a single rose growing out of a pile of shit. And it goes both ways. You wouldn’t be able to blame them for anything bad that happened to him either.
It was many years ago when I was Danny’s age, but thanks.
After some sleep, I think I see what you were getting at, and I agree. Danny gets a bad rap for being a bit of a dingus, which he doesn’t always deserve.
The whole reason he got so clingy w/ Dorothy is that their relationship was the only thing he liked about himself. His parents clearly weren’t help with that. So when Dorothy started to pull away, he saw himself losing the only good thing he’d accomplished, and the only reason he wasn’t miserable. So he held on like a drowning man. He was better off letting go, but even if he’d been able to see that, it was too scary to consider. How could he possibly ever be happy again without her?
Even seeing it’s happening, knowing that letting go is what’s best for you, that doesn’t matter if you aren’t important to you. Danny didn’t just not love himself, he wasn’t even a priority, and he’d never invested in himself as a result. That’s something you need to do, not just to enrich yourself or because it makes you a more interesting person, but because it makes it so much easier to handle one part of your life going wrong in a healthy manner when you have other things going on to fall back on.
Danny had nothing else, and since you can’t just shut down and reboot a person, there really wasn’t another way to get him back into a mental state where he could start investing in himself as a person with value beyond ”having a girlfriend”.
Yeah. I hope Danny doesn’t just get involved with someone else now. He need to figure out who Danny is, not who Dorothy/Amazi-Girl/Amber/Ethan/Mike’s boyfriend is. (Sorry* about that shippers.)
That’s what is happening next universe over in Smartening of Age.
Breaking up with your boyfriend because he refuses to support you or take your ambitions seriously is a completely valid reason for breaking up.
Cuz, thing is – for someone as mission-driven as Dorothy, a refusal to accept her ambition is a refusal to accept her. Danny refused to accept a big part of Dorothy – a part that she views as core to her identity.
Think of something important to you enough that you’d structure your entire life around it. Now imagine if your SO made fun of you and dismissed that thing, on a daily basis. Imagine how quickly it would boil down to a choice of SO vs the thing you structured your whole life around – because with Danny, that was the choice.
Danny, at that time, didn’t want a real relationship. He wanted someone to be codependent with him, he wanted someone’s entire world to revolve around him as much as his revolved around them because that’s what he’d fooled himself into thinking was True Romance.
The relationship was dead looong before Dorothy called it off – she didn’t kill it, she just pulled the life support.
And even more to the point: Dorothy wanted to end the relationship so they ended the relationship. Because of reasons.
Do the reasons really matter that much? There is no relationship commitee that gets to evaluate the Reasons and decide if they are valid or not.
What Dorothy actually DID wrong, which she admits herself, is that she didn’t break it sooner, or was more clear with wanting to end it sooner. (Because that is not hard at ALL when you are a teenager and your boyfriend clings to you like a limpet). But that happened before the comic started so it’s hard for us to say exactly what went down.
Exactly! Even if she’d dumped him exclusively for “self-serving” reasons, like “not being happy with the relationship”, she has every right to do that, and it doesn’t make her a bad person.
If the relationship isn’t working for you, ending it is the right thing to do. It is not selfish. Being in a relationship with someone who doesn’t want to be in it IS NOT HEALTHY.
I don’t think she was wrong at all to dump Danny, I just think it’s kind of obnoxious for, sell, anyone to do stuff against someones will and tell themselves it was “for their own good”.
Like, medicine to an ignorant child who can’t consent to controlling their own health, thats about it. Beyond that, no, take responsibility for your own choices. If it’s something that is good for other people, great, but it’s still because you chose it, not because the universe conspired to make you do it.
I’ve been in a similar situation, with changes – several times trying to convince my gf she’s better off without me, and it’s only through her forgiving heart (and therapy) that I’ve come to understand how patronizing and invalidating such behavior is – I need to make choices for *me*, not make them and try to blame them on other people.
Dorothy has good intentions and the breakup was good for *her* emotional health, but holy shit does Danny have a right to be pissed at the condescending way she spins it on him.
Yeah. I put about as much stock in Dorothy’s claim that she dumped Danny for his own good as I put in his claim that she dumped him to have time for Yale. It was a not-amazingly communicated breakup and they got pissy. It happens. It could have been a lot worse.
AMBER on the other hand means exactly what she says when she says it is for his own good. “It’s good for him not to be together with me. I’m not worth being together with.” and/or “it’s good for him to get out before I hurt him (more).”
The way Dorothy never seems to admit to having other reasons for dumping him definitely irks me. She may have been in the right, but the way she explains it basically writes her own needs out of the story entirely.
Mostly agree, but (1) that’s for him to decide, she’s invalidating his agency by framing it that way, and (2) it’s also a *total lie*, she dumped him because she thought he was betraying her.
Like, if she could frame it a different way (“I don’t like hurting him”), and if that was why she had actually dumped him, that would be healthier for both of them. But this way is not only condescending to him, but also damaging to her self-esteem and frames the issue passively and hopelessly in a way that encourages her to not actually seek to rectify it.
“I don’t like hurting him” => “I need to stop hurting him”
“I’m not worth being together with” => “I will always be trash, there’s no point in trying with me”
Might be jumping the gun, but “he betrayed me” was what she thought at first when she was running as Amazi-Girl, but after the events of last night (and perhaps more importantly, she’s Amber right now) she’s forced to recognize her own wrongdoing against him, and this is motivating her to push him away. It’s not a matter of even just apologizing to him; Amber doesn’t think she’s worth forgiving, so it’s for the best to just never speak to him again.
One of Amber’s problems is that she understands that she has problems, but refuses to do anything productive about it. If she flips out in anger it doesn’t mean it’s something to rectify; it’s more proof that she’s shitty broken garbage who needs to be locked away in favour of Amazi-Girl. Amber will inevitably harm Danny, and what she’s hoping is that he’ll realize that.
Damn, Amber’s self-loathing really pisses me off.
Mostly because I see her self-loathing as unjustified and silly, but I don’t see my own self-loathing in the same light, and my brain can’t handle my own hypocrisy.
Nah, nah, see misanthropic implies generalized dislike or disdain of basically everybody. He’s specifying literally only himself here and including that he doesn’t like someone else disliking themselves.
That makes me want to find every abuse survivor ever, give ’em a hug, and explain to them that they’re friggin’ idiots if they think they’re justified in hating themselves over something that someone else did to them. Damned human mind, what with all your illogical workings and your easily-injured self-perception.
I wish it was as easy as “just stop thinking it”, but when you’re put in an insurmountable situation you need to find someone you can blame, and it’s easier to do that to yourself.
Paradoxically, blaming yourself makes you feel more in control. If it’s your fault, then you can do something to fix or prevent it from happening again. “If I just try harder, do better, sacrifice myself more, they won’t abuse me again.”
Thinking it really is completely out of your control and there’s nothing you can do to keep it from happening again is even more terrifying – even if it’s actually true.
Oh no, Dotty, precious cinnamon bun, you have -not- been where Amber is. You have just missed the point so hard, you have simultaneously struck all locations in the universe -except- for the point.
Ya know, I thought I was a bit better off forgetting about Homestuck. Between my annoyance at the ending and the fact that a few friends and I had begun planning for but never actually started approximately a few hundred fantroll sessions, I was really happy with my instrumental playlist being the only thing in my life still related to the thing that introduced me to webcomics.
THANKS, BAGGE (AND BUTTS, AND NEEDFULDOER)
THANKS A LOT
FOR MAKIN THIS HAPEN
Many lines from Homestuck have reached the level of memetic to where they’re quoted by people who’ve never touched Homestuck, but I wasn’t aware the stairs were one of them.
The thing is Amber broke up with Danny because he was concerned that her alter ego would get killed and now she justifies the break up because he’s better off without her. With Dorothy it because Danny was too clingy.
I really, really, really hope that one of these days (I’d really like it to be soon) Dorothy discovers that she really doesn’t know as much about other people as she thinks she does and that some of her assumptions have been wrong/unfair. Since she’s been so consistently portrayed as thoughtful and level-headed, she’d be unlikely to fall apart at discovering she’s been wrong and her recalibration arc would be a nice counterpoint to the much more dramatic discoveries other characters have made.
While I like and agree with your whole post, the part of my brain that’s been awake for far too long latched onto “calibrations” and now I want to see Dorothy costumed as a Turian.
I think that sometimes people forget that criticism (in the analytic sense, anyway) doesn’t have to be harsh or even negative. I’ve not been terribly interested in Dorothy thus far because…well, personal taste in storytelling just about covers it, but I think she is a well-constructed character with as much potential to carry an engaging plot as any other and when it comes to large, complex ongoing stories like DoA I do think there can be just as much emotional resonance in the quieter threads as the others.
See, that’s what I usually feel. Criticism can and should be constructive, you know? I feel like Dorothy is a worthwhile side character, well-constructed as you said, but she’s never been my favorite … that said, seeing people bash her constantly is wearying to say the least.
I, too, am eager to see a quiet revelation. With all of the Ambers and Joyces and Beckys in this comic, it would be interesting to see someone like Dorothy go through an arc like that – which, don’t get me wrong, I love Amber, Joyce, and Becky, but I agree that it would be a refreshing change of pace. The simple things in life can be just as rewarding.
Dorothy is probably the single worst person Amber could talk to about Danny. Dotty still thinks of him as the immature stalker she had to chase off and she is so enamoured of Amazi-Girl that I think she has a difficult time objectively analysing Amber’s mental and emotional state.
This is probably like way too harsh on Amber, but my biggest issue with her is that she’s the reason Danny and Ethan can’t hook up. They’d be super cute together, and I ship it soooooooo hard, but they’re both way too nice and considerate to make a go for it because they both care about Amber so much (as previously shown in this comic).
Other than than, Amber is actually super interesting as a character, and I really feel for her. I know what it’s like to have an abusive father (verbally and emotionally, but not physically thank god). And I don’t know what I’d do if I didn’t have a mother who was strong and supportive. Honestly, breaking up with Danny is probably the least of her pain right now but is probably the easiest for her to deal with.
My hope for Amber, in the long run, is that she’s able to find a solid and stable source of comfort and a way to deal with her anger in a healthy way. Who knows? Maybe Sal can help with that. Sal might be selfish in a lot of ways, but I feel like she could be mature enough to help Amber if she honestly asked for it and explained what she’s going through.
…first time commenting and my thoughts are all over the place…oh well
Expression of sympathy through light physical contact is happily accepted.
And yeah, it really isn’t Amber fault they haven’t given it a shot. I’m hoping for some sort of eventual long heart-to-heart between the three of them where Amber is okay enough to give her blessing…man I’m hoping for a lot here…
I’m still shipping Danny/Ethan/Amber (note, not Amazi-Girl) as a triad. Any pair of them, I think, is going to be a train wreck for one reason or another (and we’ve already seen two of the three combinations end that way), but with all three together, the third supplies some factor that the pairings are missing alone.
Honestly, at this point I think shipping Amber with anyone is a bad idea. I think she needs to get herself in (slightly less messed up) order before she gets into a romantic relationship – we’ll see how things develop, now that she’s humanised Sal.
I also need to see how more-assertive-Danny is coming along before I can comfortably put him in a polyamory relationship. Besides, Danny strikes me as a monogamist anyway – polyamory works for the people for whom it works, and it tends to blow up spectacularly for the people for whom it doesn’t.
Danny is basically the platonic idea of monogamy, yeah, but if he wanted to give it a shot then, what the hey, why not?
As for Amber, well, I’m always pretty skeevy on the idea of someone being “too messed up” for a relationship, but unless she was with Danny, someone who does understand what’s going on with her, then I kind of have to agree? IDK where does that thought process end? How much more “fixed” do you need to be before you’re allowed to try again?
Hopefully, “fixed” enough that you don’t switch to your alter at the sign of confrontation, especially when your alter tends to hit people. I’m not talking about full integration, here, but we’ve already seen how easily AG blows up at Danny, who is most definitely not in any condition to be in a relationship with someone who’ll deal more blows to his half-dead self-esteem.
I mean, that confrontation was her boyfriend hanging around with her arch nemesis, one with whom she associates massive amounts of untreated trauma. That’s a pretty extraneous circumstance.
And, like, I really resent the idea that Amber will crush his self esteem. Amber yelled at him once and broke down in guilt, but suddenly she’s one step away from being an abusive monster? If Dorothy yelled at Walky would this even be a conversation?
I have no idea which “once” you’re talking about, because she yelled at him after Joyce’s party, she yelled at him after he talked with Sal, and she yelled at him that time when she told him he wasn’t good enough, just from the top of my head.
These events might – MIGHT – not have much effect on someone who’s in a good place, but Danny is definitely NOT in a good place. Much of his life has been steeped in psychological and emotional abuse.
I don’t think anyone can argue that Amber or Amazi-girl treated Danny well as a significant other. Danny wasn’t perfect either, but he didn’t yell at her every single time his own emotional state was knocked off balance.
I also think Amber fears herself becoming an abusive monster more than anything else, which sucks for her, but it’s not an invalid fear. And it’s not *BOOM!* Congratulations, you’ve become an abusive monster. When something happens and a person’s emotional state is altered negatively in the extreme, the way they deal with it can start out okay but go downhill. Sometimes, they trip a couple times going down that hill, and no one really notices until it gets bad, and sometimes it snowballs. I imagine that with where Amber’s at, she tripped quite a few times already and hasn’t stopped to look around if anyone’s there who can help her with her scrapes and bruises. But if she keeps going and doesn’t deal with those cuts, eventually she’ll trip on that rock or branch that causes her to completely lose her balance and motor control and she’ll just start careening down the hill with no way to stop herself. And when she hits the bottom or finally manages to stop herself, well, the damage is already done.
As someone who’s been the “easy target” of someone else’s misplaced rage, it’s really easy to let that all pile up, even if you don’t let it dictate how you feel about yourself. For me, until I got to the point where I truly didn’t care anymore (which is a sad place to be), I was always angry. The way I reacted to always being blamed and yelled at was to get angry and shout right back.
Danny doesn’t strike me as the type to fight back. He seems more the type to just take it in and be non-confrontational. Maybe because he thinks Amber/Amazi-girl will feel better once she’s let all her feelings out in one big, explosive shit storm. And overtime, in the long run, I think that could do serious damage to his already admittedly low self-esteem.
In the beginning, Amber’s and Danny’s relationship was adorable, and I shipped it so much. But now that it’s developed further (even without the break up), I don’t think they, as their current selves, make a good couple.
I guess my problem with trying to respond with this is that I view the entire concept of “becoming your abuser” as, inherently, an invalid fear. People get angry, but if you weren’t abused and don’t associate with that stigma, then it’s acceptable that you are. Anger is just a Thing You Do and then get over, and no worse for wear. If you’re abused then the whole thing becomes a countdown until you go Manchurian Candidate and turn into what you were always doomed to become, and I’ve spent too much of my own life beating myself with that cudgel to acknowledge it as anything other than total bullshit. I am allowed to be angry without experiencing guilt, but because I fit into a specific criteria feeling that anger suddenly becomes a cause for concern.
Sufficed to say I disagree that they’re bad for each other. I think Amber’s in a place where she needs someone who’s supportive and willing to argue against her for her own sake, and I feel that way because of my own experiences, but then I’m sure your own views come from the same area, so to each their own I suppose.
It’s more of a case, at least I think so, that she doesn’t trust herself enough to spend time with people. She’s terrified that she might hurt them in some way.
I only just found out about Dumbing of Age a few days ago, went on an archive binge, and am now 100% up-to-date. And now, I find out there are even more comics with these characters, apparently dating all the way back to same year friggin’ Power Rangers Turbo came out. I’m having a bit of a panic attack from this revelation. Someone help, I think I might be drowning.
That is not particularly comforting. I have a certain compulsion, you see. Once I become aware of a larger canon to something I enjoy, even just as an alternate continuity, my mind will not rest until I have devoured the entirety of this canon. In this particular case, I believe I will allow TV Tropes to gently guide me into the screaming ocean of storytelling, before I set sail on my own.
If it helps, he’s rerunning the Roomies!/It’s Walky! stuff at http://www.itswalky.com, so you could just binge to catch up then follow it a day at a time from there.
Hey so I know shippers gonna ship but can we not act like it’s a good thing that the mentally ill abuse victim is so full of self loathing that she thinks it’s for the best if her partner is away from her.
Oh dear, oops my bad. I assumed that it would be fine and all since she broke it off with him, despite Danny’s efforts to keep their relationship afloat and healthy.
Hey willis, I don’t have a usable tumblr so I’ll post the link here.
It’s a pretty neat visual on funded kickstarter projects and you were mentioned for a paragraph. ctrl+f “Comics & Columbus”.
No, Dorothy, you haven’t “been there with Danny.” For all the shitty things the Amber/AG duo did to Danny, at least they (question: is “they” the correct pronoun to refer to two alters of the same person, or would “she” be more appropriate?) had the decency to actually break up with him, instead of, y’know, going to college and, I don’t even know, hoping he could read minds?
Not comic related: anyone subjected themselves to yesterday’s debate, so I don’t have to? Prolonged exposure to Tantrump-speech makes me wish USAmerica takes a plummeting Chinese space station to the face, which makes me feel bad when I recall there’s a substantial minority that doesn’t want the vociferous orange as president. How long after it are polls run and numbers crunched?
I’m not – apparently, there’s a Chinese SS (the Tiangong-1) already decaying in orbit, and no-one knows where it’s crashing. I mean, I’m not crashing it on purpose, but, y’know, if it’s already falling we may as well get some use out of the thing…
I don’t know offhand about polls, but I can tell you anyone with a brain saw that the orange menace was crushed, both by his opponent and by the goddamn moderator (at whom he spent minutes calling wrong about a statement of actual fact).
That… wasn’t a given going in? What’s wrong with you people? I mean, I don’t like Clinton, and I think she has been running the worst campaign that I’ve ever seen (and I’ve seen people literally buying votes with appliances, so the bar was really low), but that she can out-debate Tantrump was never in question – a turnip could do that.
I’m just not sure it’s going to reflect where it matters (i.e., the votes), because anyone who’d even considering voting for Tantrump in the first place isn’t going to be swayed by silly things like “truth” or “reason.” Unlike every previous campaign, this one isn’t a pandering campaign, it’s a motivating campaign, so the question is “Did Clinton’s performance motivate people to vote come November?”
Out-debating a liar isn’t easy. It’s really hard. Look up Gish Gallop.
Clinton did well. Not just technically – being better prepared with more substantive answers. She needled him into losing his cool and ranting – which doesn’t play so well on the debate stage to a general audience as it does at his rallies. And she did it without getting into a shouting match with him. He blustered and she controlled the debate.
It wasn’t a knock-out blow. People who like Trump like bluster, so they think he did well, but I’d be shocked if we don’t see movement in her direction in the polls over the next week or so.
Oh, I didn’t mean that it would be easy because he was a liar – as Pratchett put it, a lie can get halfway around the world while the truth is still getting its boots on. It’s just that a lie that WORKS under scrutiny needs brainpower and focus (brain scans of people telling the truth barely blip; lies turn the thing into a christmas tree) to not buckle as soon as you look at them, and Trump never struck me as someone who can keep his cool for 5 minutes, which IS needed to keep a lie going. I mean, he’s under no external pressure while making campaign speeches and he still flip-flops so much it looks like he’s at the beach.
Here’s to hoping you’re right – so far, it seems to be a photo-finish on the popular vote front, with Clinton winning only because POTUS elections are like puzzles – you get the edges and you’re pretty much set. The central states are worth peanuts. I’d like to be sure the US doesn’t implode come November in great advance – honestly, I’m baffled how it can be this close (though, to be fair, every poll made during the primaries said this was what going to happen with a Clinton-Trump clash).
At least at the start of last week, Trump was ahead in popular vote, so, er, MOST of you were most definitely not, and that’s not even counting the people who aren’t intending to vote, meaning their approach to “Trump or Clinton” is “eh, whichever.”
MANY of you are very unhappy with Trump’s general existence right now, is what you mean.
Closer than I’d like and Trump’s been on top in a few polls, but the averages still have Clinton ahead.
And a lot of the non-voting isn’t so much “eh, whichever”, but “both are horrible”, which is the result of 30 years of propaganda dedicated to Clinton-hate.
She’s going to win. I’m less concerned about that than I was about Obama losing to Romney in 2012. It’s going to be an ugly 4 years though. This election’s ripping the covers off another ugly section of the American psyche – much like Obama’s did. Necessary, but nasty to live through.
To answer your question simply, the debate bought Hillary like an extra 3%. It’s still extremely close, and there’s another 2 months for her to do something to make everyone hate her again.
I’m honestly beginning to wonder if this will be a repeat of the 2004 election, when it was pretty much even and Florida was the tie-breaker state.
Dorothy’s naive optimism is so refreshing and nostalgic. Yes, just suggest to Amber that she rework her carefully constructed personality and act more like a sensible person (i.e. you). Just the kind of solution one would expect from a frosh in college. Life was so much simpler then and we hurt each other so carelessly.
That’s the main reason that people who say they regret nothing and would do it all again strike me as unreflective. I don’t have to think for thirty seconds before I can remember dozens of unkind or blind things I said to people. Dorothy will regret her blindness and assumptions here, but not for some time.
All Dorothy is doing is suggesting that Amber talk to someone about a major emotional event. Even for an introvert that’s not bad advice. She doesn’t know Amber well enough to realize how difficult that would be for her.
I would’ve thought she’d at least be able to go to Ethan with something like this, but I imagine there’s still feelings there that make it too difficult. Which Dorothy also wouldn’t know.
Oh, ew, I just realised what has been irking me about this strip – “…I never asked Danny about what went down between you two.” Danny continues to be a non-person whose opinions and point of view are irrelevant to everyone, including his own parents. I think the only who break the mold are Ethan and, possibly, Sal.
It’s possible that Dorothy just doesn’t feel comfortable putting herself in the middle of what she perceives to just be a breakup (and worse, probably thinking that Amber broke up with him for the same reason Dorothy did).
I’d also say Amber breaks that mold, since we’re clearly seeing her now be a big ball of regret over breaking up with him and how she thinks he’s better off without her.
Something I’ve just realized is that we might be seeing another split in how Amber and Amazi-Girl perceive Danny.
Amazi-Girl treats it like a massive breach of trust and as late as last night felt the same way, with her noting Sal calling Danny “wonderbread” by going “Oh, so you gave him a nickname. Well aren’t you two the best of friends?” as if his betrayal was something he was planning for a long time.
Amber’s reaction yesterday was to numb herself out of thinking about it before phasing out for AG the entire day, and now that she’s being confronted with someone who will believe anything she can say, all she can do is think about how Danny is better off without her.
I’m not sure if this is entirely because of Amber/AG being forced to recognize her own treatment of Sal and apologize, or if both alters do perceive him differently, but it’s worth thinking about.
Yeah, I’m thinking Amber is not as agreeing with AG that Danny was the party who acted wrongly, but seems to be internalizing it not so much as AG was wrong or dangerous to him, but that she as Amber posed an existing threat to him so it’s probably for the best he got out.
There’s no problem with Amazi-Girl screaming at him for betraying her, the real issue is that Amber is shitty and broken and should fuck off, obviously.
One of my things about Dorothy is that she can sometimes assume she knows what’s best for people without really knowing their situations, which can come across as very condescending. I mean, wanting to be a politician, you kind of have to think you know better/actually know better than most people but.
Like even though Amber doesn’t want to talk about it, she still goes “I’ve been exactly where you are” but she could also have said “I used to date Danny too, we can talk if you need to.” Although the latter is probably what she meant.
Same with even considering not telling Joyce about Ryan, thereby she and Amber “letting it go” and taking care of it for Joyce, because she has assumed Joyce is too fragile to handle it, and shes not even the victim, so how can people just decide what the victim should do without even including her?
Even with Walky, one of the issues in their relationship, along with his closed off ness and immaturity, is that she keeps trying to “fix” him- see the episode where she didn’t want him to wear pajamas in the mall (which a lot of college students do).
And at the same time, she seems to not really be sure whether she wants a serious relationship. Which is fine, but not when you’ve told your fwb that you want to be fwb, and then start wondering why they’re not your actual boyfriend and why aren’t they telling you their deepest secrets. Someone above said she may tend to go after emotionally unavailable men. I actually agree – I wonder if/when she even desires a relationship at all, will she be with a person who is actually “on her level” so to speak, rather than it being a pattern of her (ironically) chasing after them like they’re a child and she the teacher, until she breaks up because it’s too emotionally taxing for both of them.
I don’t think she’s terrible monster obviously, but I think she also has a lot of growing up to do like evryone else here. Like, I’m having trouble putting my finger on it, maybe sometimes you just have to let people be. Like she’s worried and compassionate, and she should prioritize herself , but she should for example let Joyce confront her problems the way Joyce would. Instead of jumping in for her. Let Walky learn, you dont have to be the one to teach him. People don’t always grow at the pace you think they should.
Dorothy did basically say “I used to date Danny, we can talk if you want.” She only made the “I’ve been there before” comment after Amber said “Danny will eventually realize us breaking up was for the best” (and after Dorothy completely misinterpreted what that meant). And then Dorothy again offered to talk with Amber if she wanted to.
I think she’s handled the Joyce/Ryan issue, appropriately, actually – Joyce DID tell her how she wanted it handled, which was to forget about the whole deal. Granted, it’s entirely possible she’s changed her mind since then, but if she knows Joyce is PTSD’ing about it, bringing up the issue is understandably something she doesn’t want to do.
I don’t think she goes after emotionally unavailable men – Danny’s not really that uncomfortable talking about his feelings and he has, in fact, gone to exactly her to talk about them. Also, no pursuing of Joe, who might just top the “emotionally unavailable” chart of everyone in this comic, including Galasso. I DO think she’s incredibly passive-aggressive in her romantic relationships, though.
Also, what is this magical land where college students would go in their pj’s to the mall, and WHY WASN’T I THERE DURING COLLEGE, DAMN IT?!
True – Joyce did say so at the time, but I feel morally wobbly about them not telling her at all, even to just ask her about it.
Your second paragraph is more articulate to what I was trying to say. The way I define emotionally unavailable is in the sense that a person can’t talk about their feelings, OR they’re overwhelming you with their feelings, and therefore you can’t get a word in, so they are also emotionally unavailable to support you.
Yeah, I don’t know! We rolled out of bed all the time. The sports kids went everywhere in sweats and shorts.
So I’m sketchy on the timeline, but has Dorothy known Walky for several weeks at this point? For some reason I thought they’d only started dating a week or two ago.
Panel 1: Women apologizing for the men in their lives acting socially inappropriate. Ah, common life occurrences.
And no, I’m not slagging Walky, he was being a goofball, just noting how that is a common social trope that people fall into all the time because it’s so normalized. Which is brought heavily to mind in reference to watching the debates last night and how perfectly it demonstrated the “woman has to be twice as good as a man to be taken half as seriously” tropes and “aggressive ignorant man constantly interrupts woman when she’s speaking and she’s supposed to accept that in good humor” tropes.
Panel 2: D’aw, Dorothy’s face here. That combo of embarrassment and “Bob help me, I love that dope” is kinda super adorkable.
Panel 3: Aw, follow-up check about how she’s coping after the breakup. And yay, that means we finally get to see Amber’s reaction to all this rather than just the AG alter. I also love the little add she throws in to say she’s sad that it happened and how she shifted the conversation this way after worrying about the PDA being rude.
Dorothy is a really good friend, which is why I’m a little sad that she’s so starved for effective emotional support at the moment. It’s the downside of being seen as the hypercompetent helper personality type is that everyone comes to you for advice and help, but you end up feeling really alone when you’re struggling with stuff and need emotional support yourself.
To the last part: yeah, it’s so hard sometimes to find people who accept you as you are, even when you’re feeling down or weak ornot happy go lucky all the time.
One of the first steps is ditching the people who only are your friends in fair weather. And another is to learn that you can’t jump in and fix everyone’s problems for them, even if they expect you to or you attach your self worth to how useful you are (in the literal sense) to others. Ive had to do the first step recently, but later it was so much easier to basically not be someone’s emotional mother/punching bag all the time.
Yeah, that’s a good observation about Dorothy’s lack of emotional support. It was extra clear when Joyce came back and she basically wagged her tail by the door (Puppy Dorothy!!!) for having her back home.
All the people she is close to in college are in the middle of one disaster or another. Walky is on suicide watch for Billie. Joyce and Becky have a laundry list of trauma. Danny is Dannying.
I wish we would see more of her interaction with Sierra.
Panels 4-5: Innnnnteresting. That look away, guilty face, and short pause. I don’t think Amber agrees 100% with AG’s narrative of Danny “betraying” her and may even view AG’s actions as wrong and abusive towards Danny.
I mean, that “it was a good thing it ended” is such a line, because it’s one of those things frequently said after realizing an aspect of a relationship dynamic was particularly toxic. And this time, the toxicity very much didn’t come from Danny’s end in the way it did in his breakup to Dorothy (see why she reacts the way she does in the next panel).
And that bit where she says he’ll eventually see it as a good thing… it’s interesting, because Amber is currently being saddled with the blame of AG’s run of bad decision-making so AG can still be the golden alter. She “corrupted” the spirit of the mission and is the thing AG is “protecting Sal from” and so on.
So it’s clear AG has dumped off her fuck-ups regarding Danny on Amber as well, blaming her “temper” and other negative qualities for driving the blow-up. Which is why Amber looks guilty rather than upset. Because in her mind, she must have caused AG’s bad actions with Danny, so she’s viewing herself as so toxic that she can’t even exist in the backseat to their love affair.
It’s tragic and I would love to see her call out AG’s golden alter pretensions and place the blame where it actually belongs.
Panel 6: And here’s the other half of why that line works so well, because it also works as a “things weren’t going in a great direction and I had to break stuff off but he’ll be in a better place afterwards”. And that interpretation plays well for Dorothy, because that was her experiences with Danny. She doesn’t know about the yelling or the accusations or how much Danny has grown in the last few weeks letting go of a lot of his old toxicity.
She’s gotten some idea of the last part of it, but still, this interpretation feels more accurate with the info she’s got so far, especially with AG being so upset with him and accusatory about him the night before, slagging his name and intentionally trying to drive away some of his support network.
It’ll be interesting how Dorothy will react when she finds out the actual truth of what happened.
Panel 7: This is 100% accurate to how introverts deal with emotional turmoil.
I mean, sure, I could reach out to a support network, but they’d probably hate me anyways and requires social batteries, so I’ll just fetal position on the bed instead. Isolation always makes everything better… (no, no it doesn’t).
I… didn’t get Danny-toxicity from their relationship (well, the little we know about it). Roomies! Danny was definitely toxic, DoA one not really? Or maybe it’s an effect of their relationship not being actually shown? He had clingy elevated to an art-form, though.
Note: I went back to the earliest strips to check for toxicity and in one strip Danny says he’ll “update [Dorothy’s] patches” (no, this is not a metaphor). What the hell, Danny, you’re supposed to be tech-savvy – that sounds like something my grandad would say, and he’s dead! Are you going to ask who delivers e-mail as well?
Danny was also hoping to advise President Dorothy on her IT issues (but seriously, update her patches, wth?), so it sounds like he could do with whatever – not exactly stellar performance, but I wouldn’t qualify it as toxic.
For the record, he couldn’t possibly be more dismissive of her dreams than I am, because “an atheist woman who evades confrontation” doesn’t really strike me as a winning combo for political success, especially in Indiana. Hells, US polls show that people would prefer an actual criminal than an atheist in the white house – guess they’re getting their wish come November, though.
We don’t actually SEE much of the toxicity beyond that one comment just before they broke up, but given his clingyness and the uncharacteristically angry reaction from,Dorothy, its very heavily implied that this had been going on for weeks.
Considering he got so clingy he followed her to college, there’s no way he’d been handling it well. Or anything else he perceived as getting between them
I concede the point that, due to lack of both personal experience in toxic relationships and pre-college information, I may be not seeing Danny-toxicity that is actually there.
I can’t find any any more explicit examples, but the way Dorothy just explodes at Danny after that one, seemingly minor comment is what seals it for me.
To me, it had the distinct feel of being the final straw, the last in a long series of little discouraging remarks, transparently aimed at keeping her within reach, even if that meant trying to steer her away from what she clearly wanted to do with her life.
I doubt any one comment was much worse than the one we actually saw though. Danny isn’t — and wasn’t — a bad guy. He was just scared and desperate, and probably totally blind to how hurtful he was being. It would have been the persistence of it that got to Dorothy. Just the continued effort to talk her out of pursuing her dreams, as if they didn’t matter.
Maybe it was bad in the sense that being with someone like that is terribly draining – and you also never have time to take care of yourself because you’re giving the other person all your attention and resources, from Dorothy’s perspective.
For the other perspective, see how Danny kinda didn’t know what to do with himself, his only semi-friend was Joe, etc- he hadn’t been working on himself at all, meanwhile Dorothy was making friends and focusing on her classes.
Following an SO to college is BIG decision and indicates significant attachment, like Fart Captor said above. Unfortunately Dorothy did not feel the same way about Danny, though she definitely could have been clearer about it.
I wouldn’t go so far to say it was toxic, but it definitely had the potential to be. Then again, things don’t have to be awful for you to break up with someone. You can just not want to be with them anymore.
I’m not going to touch the issue of which US presidential candidate has apparently committed crime, but one of the major party candidates is a Methodist and possibly the most publicly Christian candidate since Jimmy Carter, and the one identifies as Presbyterian and ostentatiously courts the Evangelical vote. So unless there is a meteor strike or some equivalent, there is zero chance there will be an atheist in the White House next January.
These days they do, yeah. You still have to undergo some tests and trials to prove that you’re sufficiently introverted, but they aren’t nearly as harsh as they used to be.
I’m not sure how likely Dorothy really is to learn the truth about the breakup. I mean, if it serves the story in the future she will, but she hasn’t bothered to ask yet and Amber’s response here seems to cement Dorothy’s belief that this breakup is the same as hers for the same reasons. Heck, the reason Amazi-girl gave is ‘he lost the faith’, and a big reason Dorothy broke up with Danny was that he didn’t believe in her dreams.
Also, she knows Danny to be someone who is literally loyal to a fault, who doesn’t let go of people even when it’s in both of their best interest. Even when given hint after hint that things are ending or over. It is not unbelievable at all to her that Danny being Danny would drive a girlfriend to the edge until she dumps him for his own good.
Thus, it’s entirely possible that she just doesn’t have any further curiosity, as the narrative she’s been presented is cohesive and fits with her experience of Danny.
Meanwhile of course Amber’s remembering the times she DID step out of line with Danny and is totally using them to amp up her “it was all Amber’s fault, Amazi-Girl was faultless, anyway it’s better for Danny anyway” narrative and oh Amber honey sweetie noooo.
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“ugh, Dotty, that’s like a prescription for EXTROVERTS”
(coincidentally, the debates make me want to do what Amber suggests)
Politics got a lot better once I made my browser replace all references to Trump with “The Racist Pumpkin”
Linus 2016: Make Pumpkin Great Again!
It’s the Hate Pumpkin, Charlie Brown!
I’m still going with Cheeto Jesus.
That man won’t save Cheetos. The chicken-fries flavor was probably his idea!
The Racist Pumpkin brags that paying no income tax makes him smart, then immediately after, when asked about it by a reporter, insists he never said that.
Yeah, that’s somewhat less distressing
Quotes from my Facebook feed right now:
“Growing Up The Racist Pumpkin: Ivanka The Racist Pumpkin Tells All”
“How a Cool Clinton Drove The Racist Pumpkin Over The Edge”
“Never afraid of the press, The Racist Pumpkin always is ready to give an honest answer.”
Ivanka The Racist Pumpkin: worst holiday movie ever.
Willis, you need to make this filter permanent. The ‘T-word’ makes me violently ill, so it needs to be filtered.
His mic was defective! The history revision system was offline and the bull filter didn’t have the latest definitions update!
Maybe the mic would work better if people quit dropping the f***in’ thing! It’s a delicate instrument!
*Drops mic.*
Oh, bollocks!
I now want Willis to draw a comic depicting a racist pumpkin attack in a one off strip set in the other universe. O_O
All of THIS ^^
I mean theoretically that’s what we have the Soggies for.
Clearly in the Walkyverse’s 2016, Sogmaster is running for president on the Republican ticket.
Truly, Soggies May Rule.
for me it auto correct to “the rich asshole”
There’s a joke about Dorothy not having enough stamina to be president somewhere within the banner of relevance here…I can’t find it though.
She doesn’t SMILE enough, and she’s so SHRILL
(I swear, I’m like this close to autocorrecting the word “shrill” to “female and confident and therefore threatening to my fragile masculinity”)
To be fair, that didn’t feel like a debate so much as a tiger toying with a really fat gerbil for 90 minutes before getting bored and eating it.
By which I mean that Clinton accorded herself rather nicely against Trump.
So much self-loathing.
Self-loafing is much better if a tad expensive.
I think she maybe needs to do a little bit of self-loving.
(especially now that Danny’s gone, HEYOOOOO)
Nah, I just buy my bread at the super market. Self loafing takes too long, I don’t have any ingredients.
Well if you’re your own worst enemy you could grind the bones of your enemy to make your bread, but that sounds messy… and painful.
It’s painful only if your enemy is still alive while you are doing that.
That doesn’t seem physically possible.
They should start a club for people who breakup with Danny. They could serve punch at meetings
The should get jackets.
Call themselves the Won’tcoxes.
bwahaha
LOL
Does Billie count? She tried to have sex with him and he turned her down.
Only if the punch has a kick to it? I’ll see myself out.
How many punches per person and can Mike come?
“One punch, man! One punch per person, damnit! Seriously, Mike, this isn’t a concussion party!”
The foremost consideration of the Concussion Party platform is that it be very well padded.
Sure, but you’d have to pay him a nickel.
(Shipping Ethan/Mike/Danny/Regret here, don’tchaknow)
Either way works.
Woo introvert club!
First meeting – NEVER
The first rule of introvert club ….
Won’t be set until after the meeting.
Reminds me of how the Procrastination Club never took off due to people continually putting off going to the meetings.
i was going to run for President but….
That is why we only use comment sections now! That way we can waste time on the computer instead of doing that other thing like me and… well… just about everything! XD
Avoiding conflict, the Amber way!
Huh, so that’s what I’ve been doing is called.
Don’t worry Amber, someday you’ll get it down to just mild queasiness.
Oh, jeez, Amber…
… Emotions aside, who else is checking the archives?
Cause I didn’t see it.
Aw, that’s lame. Dorothy broke up with Danny and it was mostly Danny’s issues at fault, but now she’s projecting that onto Danny and Amber’s breakup, which is due to Danny confronting Amber about her own unhealthy issues. So their breakup totally justified in Dorothy’s mind now :\
That’s a thing that I love and that rings true for me, even as I cringe mightly at it: Dorothy doesn’t understand what Amber’s saying and thinks it’s the same “for the best” she broke up with Danny. And thus a big problem is overlooked.
In her defense, she did try to get Amber to actually talk about it, to her or somebody else.
Although that just makes it more tragic that Amber’s social anxiety makes that a difficult proposition.
I’m beginning to see that Dorothy has a thing for emotionally-distant people. :-/
On the other hand, she’s BFF’s with Joyce, who’s the furthest thing from emotionally distant.
Has anyone succeeded in keeping Joyce away when she wants to be friends? Sarah and Sal have tried, but don’t seem to be doing to well.
She is herself.
Danny made it clear he was following her to her college choice, even though he had no idea what to take.
She put her political ambitions before her relationship with Danny. She told him flat out, don’t do it. I am going on from there to Yale/Harvard whatever, and you will never have the grades for it. I don’t want you there.
And she appeared to have very little problem adjusting to her decision. She was embarrassed when he showed up anyway, and then went on anyway.
So, she is capible of emotional distance when it suits her needs.
Amber on the other hand? But, she is engaging in conversation: with Walky on the roof, with Sal, now with Dorothy.
Sadly, two of those were not Amber – that was Amazi-girl.
But THIS is Amber and that is very important.
Amazi-Girl can only be more outgoing because she has a mask to hide behind.
I disagree. She’s extremely empathetic and compassionate. Just look at her interactions with Becky (even when Becky was being really jealous), or with Carla (even when her boyfriend picked a fight with her and it would have been easier to take his side), or right here when she can’t help but smile at what a huge dork Walky is.
The fact the she has ambitions and is able to prioritize her long-term goals do not make her cold or detached.
She wasn’t embarrassed by Danny following her to college. She was no longer happy in the relationship. That much is pretty clear to me, at least. I feel like her compassionate nature might be the only reason she didn’t dump Danny sooner. She probably hoped that he would come to his senses and see how the two of them wanted completely different things, and that would soften the blow. It would have, but he wasn’t willing to see it.
Eventually, she had to just bite the bullet and cut him loose. It would have been better to do it sooner, and just admit it wasn’t working, but pretty much everyone learns those lessons the hard way like that.
Dorothy put it out there. Amber can file it away for future reference.
What happened to “What are going to do about outing Ryan as rapist?”
I couldn’t take two comments sections like that in a row, the breather is appreciated.
I didn’t look at the comments yesterday due to time. Sometimes I go back and read them. Thank you for the warning not to do that.
You should definitely be advised about the comments from pretty much all the strips where Sal and AG are at the rally, after they spot Ryan. If you hadn’t noticed / guessed already, there’s a lot of potentially triggery discussion there.
I’d almost be willing to say just about the entirety of this chapter(?) actually.
I didn’t even realize just how much the comments were stressing me out until just the last day or so.
A lot. I think like 10% of the normal commenters weren’t around for like weeks.
But then I’d have to talk! To people!
Some of them even have cooties *shivers*
And some want to be friends with you! Creeps.
No one gives Danny enough credit but Ethan…I wonder what will come of that?
Ssslipshine!
YES!!!
Only in our twisted dreams. They’re not quite that oblivious.
We can always hope that Amber is eventually like “You two should date” and then after a few weeks together they decide to go for it and then we get our Slipshine… As long as Slipshine is still in business and one of Willis’ children or grandchildren have a talent for it that is.
I am pretty sure that this is how it’ll play out. Jumping onto your best friend’s ex is terrible, but there’s nothing wrong with it if everyone involved just clears the air with one another, and I think Amber deserves to actually bury things with Danny before he gets with Ethan (and Ethan specifically. It wouldn’t really be Amber’s business if he got involved with someone else).
What I’m hoping though, is that Amber wants them together because she wants them to be happy, rather than “if they’re together they’ll recognize that I’m awful garbage and get rid of me like I deserve.”
Except in every sitcom ever, where it TURNS OUT they weren’t actually ok with their ex dating their best friend but it needed to happen and they needed to get jealous before they realied it!
I don’t think Amber has enough self esteem to believe she deserves to be jealous.
She doesn’t even believe she deserves Danny over herself.
Talking of hypothetical ships:
Which of our nerd characters would produce threesome fantasies, like a Danny-Ethan-Amber triangle? Amber does have a weird fascination for male pairings in her slash-fic. Has she ever added females? Or an incarnation of herself?
I mean, I wouldn’t really say that. The only time Dorothy’s ever had anything negative to say about Danny was their breakup, and Amber basically explodes in adoration for him and only really got held back by her self loathing and reliance on her alter.
Spending his childhood with Amber probably fine tuned Ethan into a compliment machine who actively seeks out and destroys self deprecation with tactical precision.
Most real thing about this strip, self loathing means cutting people out is doing them a favour
We’ve gotten our Sal/AG teamup… I guess another one with Ruth is on the bill now.
It’s also a common rationale for suicide, the ultimate breakup. ‘They’d be better off without me’. A thought I spent decades keeping at arm’s length.
Yep. It’s something to this day I struggle believing; that people can actually like me and choose to spend time with me.
Amber lies! She solves all emotional issues with EXTREME human contact.
She’s an all or nothing gal, Amber is.
NOT HARD ENOUGH!
Dorothy: Danny for the last time I don’t want a serious relationship I don’t have time for that.
* not even a week later*
Dorothy: okay look I know what I said a few days ago about not having time for her dating, but this is my new boyfriend and we need to commandeer your shoes.
man i think yesterday someone was like “hey you should put up a little faq that’s exclusively about character stuff that’s remembered shittily over and over”
and i was like “naw”
right now i’m like “maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe”
I’m re-reading Shortpacked from beginning now.
Roomies is next.
Willis, you have put out a huge amount of storytelling over the years: not in one universe but several. With a lot of characters. With lots of details.
Trying to remember everything…needs research on you. The only cartoonist I do that while staying even with the current ones. Or trying too.
PS maybe of the ‘shittily remembered items” are just trying to pull your chain? Like, everybody knows Sal is AG, hehe.
It’s not about research.
It’s Dorothy never ever ever ever having said “I don’t have time to date you, that’s why I’m dumping you.” That’s something Danny suggested once when he was pissy. But that’s what’s remembered — not Dorothy’s actual explanation, which is that Danny saw Dorothy’s aspirations as nonserious and that he was blindly following her in a way that was undercutting his own potential aspirations when she was Just Not That Into Him anymore.
And Danny’s bitter, false accusation is what’s remembered and often weaponized against Dorothy as if it’s something she said herself.
How very much like real life.
People remembering a pissed-off statement rather than the truth, I mean.
I don’t want to make you angry, Willis, but I kinda think it’s a fault of the text.
When Danny does say “If she says she can’t have a boyfriend because she’s going to be moving to another school,…” Dorothy acts like she feels all guilty and never corrects him.
Sure, there are plausible reasons for that. It would have seemed weird. And she quickly became angry that he was upset at her for dating someone else. And then the conversation turned to Amazi-Girl.
But I think it’s perfectly understandable that people think that Danny’s summation was accurate. I mean, she did mention those things–it was more a mixed up summary.
I mean, I’m the type to correct people when they hate on a character for something they didn’t actually do. And I never noticed this one. I thought it was at least partly accurate, albeit uncharitable.
From now on, I’ll point this out.
Wow, a bit to much on the back lash maybe? Thing is I don’t remember either one of them saying this I’m just paraphrasing or if anything else talking out my ass. Look if your annoyed about how people are constantly forgetting that one part of your 6 year long story than I’m sincerely sorry. But it feels like you slightly lashed out at me there, I’m not upset though just thought that wasn’t tactful.
I feel bad for Dorothy on this front – cuz I don’t think anyone treats her ambitions seriously, except Walky and maybe Joyce.
Her parents think it’s a phase she’ll pursue until she finds the right guy. Danny thought it was just some cute childish thing she’d give up once she decided to settle for something lesser. I sincerely doubt any of her teachers growing up treated her seriously about it – and everyone else on the damn floor seems to treat her ambition as a running joke. And Dorothy has the patience of a saint, so she doesn’t lose it with them over that often… but of course, she’s a young woman so when she does lose it, it’s her fault because she should’ve been yet more patient with people who are in the habit of making light of her life’s ambition. *eyeroll*
I don’t know if this is also discussed often in comments, but:
what annoyed me about their breakup, back at the time, was not about the (perfectly valid) reason, but about timing instead. I got the impression, from a few strips (first when Joe correctly anticipated the breakup, then when she asked for Ruth’s advice), that Dorothy was already considering dumping him. So, if it wasn’t just an angry reaction to Danny’s words (“maybe you’ll like it here and change your mind about leaving”), it was not very nice of her to wait until right after Danny had moved to IU with her…
I realize that we do not know much of what happened that summer, and Dorothy is now one of my favorite characters anyway, but… there, I said it.
I thought that she actually hoped he would get the strong hint before attending the same college she did. Or maybe things might have dragged on longer if he hadn’t shown up there. But when he did show up, she was unhappy and still trying to find a way to let him down easily until his condescension pissed her off.
That Joe never was in doubt Danny would get dumped showed – in my perception at least – that everybody but Danny had understood this.
What Dorothy wanted was for him to realize on his own that their relationship needed to end because she was afraid of hurting him, failing to realize that putting it off just made things worse until finally having to say it.
*channels Liar Liar elevator scene*
It was me! 😛
I thought that already existed. It’s called Walkypedia?
Danny was getting really clingy and fixated on Dorothy (or likely some imaginary idealized version of her) to the exclusion of his own needs. He basically stopped being his own person, and expected her to do the same, which was harmful for both of them.
As someone who got that hung up on someone once — *sigh* okay, twice — before, I can absolutely attest that breaking up with him was the best thing she could do for him, especially since she was clearly no longer happy in the relationship with him.
It hurts and it sucks, but the relationship was no longer healthy, and ripping that bandage off was the fastest way to help Danny get back into a mental state where a healthy relationship was even possible
This is what I mean when I say people don’t give Danny enough credit. Dorothy and Amber can say that breaking up with him was the best thing for him but it was ultimately a self serving act. Dorothy broke up with Danny because he didn’t truly believe in her aspirations while simultaneously, possibly giving up his own. Amber broke up with him from her own paranoia about Sal and wanting to perpetuate her one sided vendetta and continue being Amazi-girl. Now these are very valid reasons to breakup (especially Amber as it was hinted as potentially abusive in the future possibly, maybe) but the only one who could know what’s best for Danny is Danny and he was still invested in both relationships. And yeah maybe Danny will come out the other end a happier person but that will be because of his own decisions not because his exes thought it was best for him even if it was.
I have been in Danny’s shoes and I am telling you Dorothy made the right fucking call, and he is already happier for it.
His relationship with Amber may have failed, but is was MILES healthier, and better for him
I’m not saying Dorothy or Amber did anything wrong. Danny is happier…or was anyway. But that’s not on them that’s on him. Just like your happiness after your situation is because of you. (All the hugs to you by the way) And in fairness to Amber she didn’t actually say it was what was best for him just that it was a good thing. Like a single rose growing out of a pile of shit. And it goes both ways. You wouldn’t be able to blame them for anything bad that happened to him either.
It was many years ago when I was Danny’s age, but thanks.
After some sleep, I think I see what you were getting at, and I agree. Danny gets a bad rap for being a bit of a dingus, which he doesn’t always deserve.
The whole reason he got so clingy w/ Dorothy is that their relationship was the only thing he liked about himself. His parents clearly weren’t help with that. So when Dorothy started to pull away, he saw himself losing the only good thing he’d accomplished, and the only reason he wasn’t miserable. So he held on like a drowning man. He was better off letting go, but even if he’d been able to see that, it was too scary to consider. How could he possibly ever be happy again without her?
Even seeing it’s happening, knowing that letting go is what’s best for you, that doesn’t matter if you aren’t important to you. Danny didn’t just not love himself, he wasn’t even a priority, and he’d never invested in himself as a result. That’s something you need to do, not just to enrich yourself or because it makes you a more interesting person, but because it makes it so much easier to handle one part of your life going wrong in a healthy manner when you have other things going on to fall back on.
Danny had nothing else, and since you can’t just shut down and reboot a person, there really wasn’t another way to get him back into a mental state where he could start investing in himself as a person with value beyond ”having a girlfriend”.
Yeah. I hope Danny doesn’t just get involved with someone else now. He need to figure out who Danny is, not who Dorothy/Amazi-Girl/Amber/Ethan/Mike’s boyfriend is. (Sorry* about that shippers.)
That’s what is happening next universe over in Smartening of Age.
* Not really sorry.
Breaking up with your boyfriend because he refuses to support you or take your ambitions seriously is a completely valid reason for breaking up.
Cuz, thing is – for someone as mission-driven as Dorothy, a refusal to accept her ambition is a refusal to accept her. Danny refused to accept a big part of Dorothy – a part that she views as core to her identity.
Think of something important to you enough that you’d structure your entire life around it. Now imagine if your SO made fun of you and dismissed that thing, on a daily basis. Imagine how quickly it would boil down to a choice of SO vs the thing you structured your whole life around – because with Danny, that was the choice.
Danny, at that time, didn’t want a real relationship. He wanted someone to be codependent with him, he wanted someone’s entire world to revolve around him as much as his revolved around them because that’s what he’d fooled himself into thinking was True Romance.
The relationship was dead looong before Dorothy called it off – she didn’t kill it, she just pulled the life support.
And even more to the point: Dorothy wanted to end the relationship so they ended the relationship. Because of reasons.
Do the reasons really matter that much? There is no relationship commitee that gets to evaluate the Reasons and decide if they are valid or not.
What Dorothy actually DID wrong, which she admits herself, is that she didn’t break it sooner, or was more clear with wanting to end it sooner. (Because that is not hard at ALL when you are a teenager and your boyfriend clings to you like a limpet). But that happened before the comic started so it’s hard for us to say exactly what went down.
Exactly! Even if she’d dumped him exclusively for “self-serving” reasons, like “not being happy with the relationship”, she has every right to do that, and it doesn’t make her a bad person.
If the relationship isn’t working for you, ending it is the right thing to do. It is not selfish. Being in a relationship with someone who doesn’t want to be in it IS NOT HEALTHY.
Yes, this! Hank you, Fart Captor.
Aww, if that’s a reference to Joyce’s dad rather than a typo, that’s a really nice thing to wish for someone!
Fart Captor: Hanking it right.
I don’t think she was wrong at all to dump Danny, I just think it’s kind of obnoxious for, sell, anyone to do stuff against someones will and tell themselves it was “for their own good”.
Like, medicine to an ignorant child who can’t consent to controlling their own health, thats about it. Beyond that, no, take responsibility for your own choices. If it’s something that is good for other people, great, but it’s still because you chose it, not because the universe conspired to make you do it.
I’ve been in a similar situation, with changes – several times trying to convince my gf she’s better off without me, and it’s only through her forgiving heart (and therapy) that I’ve come to understand how patronizing and invalidating such behavior is – I need to make choices for *me*, not make them and try to blame them on other people.
Dorothy has good intentions and the breakup was good for *her* emotional health, but holy shit does Danny have a right to be pissed at the condescending way she spins it on him.
Yeah. I put about as much stock in Dorothy’s claim that she dumped Danny for his own good as I put in his claim that she dumped him to have time for Yale. It was a not-amazingly communicated breakup and they got pissy. It happens. It could have been a lot worse.
AMBER on the other hand means exactly what she says when she says it is for his own good. “It’s good for him not to be together with me. I’m not worth being together with.” and/or “it’s good for him to get out before I hurt him (more).”
The way Dorothy never seems to admit to having other reasons for dumping him definitely irks me. She may have been in the right, but the way she explains it basically writes her own needs out of the story entirely.
Mostly agree, but (1) that’s for him to decide, she’s invalidating his agency by framing it that way, and (2) it’s also a *total lie*, she dumped him because she thought he was betraying her.
Like, if she could frame it a different way (“I don’t like hurting him”), and if that was why she had actually dumped him, that would be healthier for both of them. But this way is not only condescending to him, but also damaging to her self-esteem and frames the issue passively and hopelessly in a way that encourages her to not actually seek to rectify it.
“I don’t like hurting him” => “I need to stop hurting him”
“I’m not worth being together with” => “I will always be trash, there’s no point in trying with me”
Might be jumping the gun, but “he betrayed me” was what she thought at first when she was running as Amazi-Girl, but after the events of last night (and perhaps more importantly, she’s Amber right now) she’s forced to recognize her own wrongdoing against him, and this is motivating her to push him away. It’s not a matter of even just apologizing to him; Amber doesn’t think she’s worth forgiving, so it’s for the best to just never speak to him again.
One of Amber’s problems is that she understands that she has problems, but refuses to do anything productive about it. If she flips out in anger it doesn’t mean it’s something to rectify; it’s more proof that she’s shitty broken garbage who needs to be locked away in favour of Amazi-Girl. Amber will inevitably harm Danny, and what she’s hoping is that he’ll realize that.
Damn, Amber’s self-loathing really pisses me off.
Mostly because I see her self-loathing as unjustified and silly, but I don’t see my own self-loathing in the same light, and my brain can’t handle my own hypocrisy.
have you tried dissociating that self-loathing into an alter-ego ?
I see no way this could possibly go wrong.
Lipke the Misanthropic?
Nah, nah, see misanthropic implies generalized dislike or disdain of basically everybody. He’s specifying literally only himself here and including that he doesn’t like someone else disliking themselves.
Yeah, it’d be Lipke the… Misautopic?
Although in terms of an alter ego… um… I dunno how to alter my ego, it’s pretty set in stone. :p
Aww, Amber 🙁
At least you sorta talked about it. A tiny bit.
whoops, that wasn’t supposed to be a reply.
Well, it kinda worked anyway.
How’d you mispost as a reply?
On the one had, Amber really isn’t in a good state to be in a relationship, so her assessment feels kinda accurate
On the other, her self-loathing is the main reason she’s not in a good state to be in a relationship.
That’s…very honest of you, and it sounds like you’re trying to work through it. That’s good.
Self-loathing is pretty common for abuse survivors.
That makes me want to find every abuse survivor ever, give ’em a hug, and explain to them that they’re friggin’ idiots if they think they’re justified in hating themselves over something that someone else did to them. Damned human mind, what with all your illogical workings and your easily-injured self-perception.
It’s a lot of things, really.
I wish it was as easy as “just stop thinking it”, but when you’re put in an insurmountable situation you need to find someone you can blame, and it’s easier to do that to yourself.
Paradoxically, blaming yourself makes you feel more in control. If it’s your fault, then you can do something to fix or prevent it from happening again. “If I just try harder, do better, sacrifice myself more, they won’t abuse me again.”
Thinking it really is completely out of your control and there’s nothing you can do to keep it from happening again is even more terrifying – even if it’s actually true.
Sadly, this.
Blaming yourself gives you a measure of control that blaming the actual cause of your problems doesn’t.
I really feel bad for Danny especially the fact how Dorothy doesn’t seem all that surprised he and Amber didn’t last long
Danny also didn’t last very long in those two Slipshines ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I don’t think a lot of guys could last any longer. Not unless they’re into that tantric sex.
Look, Dorothy. Allergies are serious business and you need to respect them.
(This comment prepared in a facility that processes peanuts, dairy, and feelings.)
Helping dotty is helping!
Oh no, Dotty, precious cinnamon bun, you have -not- been where Amber is. You have just missed the point so hard, you have simultaneously struck all locations in the universe -except- for the point.
Pfft, I was just here to say something like this.
She also doesn’t know where Amber is. She’s known Danny for years, but she barely knows Amber at all
She is, however, assuming Danny is the same Danny she broke up with and that’s probably(certainly) wrong at this point.
So she knew how fast she was going really really precisely?
This week we’re get all the Amber faces!
So, how would that have gone, if Dorothy had gone to ask Danny about ‘what went down with Amber’?
“Why, yes, you are exactly the person I wish to speak to about this, previous person who broke up with me, barely a month ago!”
On the same stairs, even.
Man, I hate those stairs.
I warned you about stairs, bro
It keeps happening.
He’s gonna develop a complex!
“Hey, man, you wanna go get burgers?”
“No thanks, the stairs at the front of the dorm give me existential ennui.”
“So Arby’s then?”
Is this thread giving anyone else a major case of deja vu? I feel like the same comment conversation happened before…
On the same stairs, even.
Man, I hate those stairs.
I warned you about stairs, bro
Ya know, I thought I was a bit better off forgetting about Homestuck. Between my annoyance at the ending and the fact that a few friends and I had begun planning for but never actually started approximately a few hundred fantroll sessions, I was really happy with my instrumental playlist being the only thing in my life still related to the thing that introduced me to webcomics.
THANKS, BAGGE (AND BUTTS, AND NEEDFULDOER)
THANKS A LOT
FOR MAKIN THIS HAPEN
…I’m quoting Homestuck?
I’m OK with that.
http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/115223408792/dina-character-model
Many lines from Homestuck have reached the level of memetic to where they’re quoted by people who’ve never touched Homestuck, but I wasn’t aware the stairs were one of them.
My relationship with Homestuck is basically being confused at cons.
Not compleeeeetly unlike this
http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=1897
“I warned you about those stairs, bro” is a reference to Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff, a shitty comic created by one of the characters.
Sounds recursive.
Like eating at Arby’s?
The thing is Amber broke up with Danny because he was concerned that her alter ego would get killed and now she justifies the break up because he’s better off without her. With Dorothy it because Danny was too clingy.
I really, really, really hope that one of these days (I’d really like it to be soon) Dorothy discovers that she really doesn’t know as much about other people as she thinks she does and that some of her assumptions have been wrong/unfair. Since she’s been so consistently portrayed as thoughtful and level-headed, she’d be unlikely to fall apart at discovering she’s been wrong and her recalibration arc would be a nice counterpoint to the much more dramatic discoveries other characters have made.
While I like and agree with your whole post, the part of my brain that’s been awake for far too long latched onto “calibrations” and now I want to see Dorothy costumed as a Turian.
I had to look up “Turian”. And then I genuinely LOLed.
Zee, may I just say that it is super refreshing to see someone both critical of & yet fair to Dorothy.
I think that sometimes people forget that criticism (in the analytic sense, anyway) doesn’t have to be harsh or even negative. I’ve not been terribly interested in Dorothy thus far because…well, personal taste in storytelling just about covers it, but I think she is a well-constructed character with as much potential to carry an engaging plot as any other and when it comes to large, complex ongoing stories like DoA I do think there can be just as much emotional resonance in the quieter threads as the others.
See, that’s what I usually feel. Criticism can and should be constructive, you know? I feel like Dorothy is a worthwhile side character, well-constructed as you said, but she’s never been my favorite … that said, seeing people bash her constantly is wearying to say the least.
I, too, am eager to see a quiet revelation. With all of the Ambers and Joyces and Beckys in this comic, it would be interesting to see someone like Dorothy go through an arc like that – which, don’t get me wrong, I love Amber, Joyce, and Becky, but I agree that it would be a refreshing change of pace. The simple things in life can be just as rewarding.
Thank you, for your perspective.
This is a Willis strip. Even if “one of the days” is in five years, it will come like a dessert you just ordered.
Like talking ever solved anything.
Tell me about it!
Dorothy is probably the single worst person Amber could talk to about Danny. Dotty still thinks of him as the immature stalker she had to chase off and she is so enamoured of Amazi-Girl that I think she has a difficult time objectively analysing Amber’s mental and emotional state.
I went to look for something on the last comic and accidently ended up reading and replying to comments again 😐
So, Dave, did it get easier to draw hands on doorknobs, or do you just like making your own life harder?
Little easier. Still not great.
This is probably like way too harsh on Amber, but my biggest issue with her is that she’s the reason Danny and Ethan can’t hook up. They’d be super cute together, and I ship it soooooooo hard, but they’re both way too nice and considerate to make a go for it because they both care about Amber so much (as previously shown in this comic).
Other than than, Amber is actually super interesting as a character, and I really feel for her. I know what it’s like to have an abusive father (verbally and emotionally, but not physically thank god). And I don’t know what I’d do if I didn’t have a mother who was strong and supportive. Honestly, breaking up with Danny is probably the least of her pain right now but is probably the easiest for her to deal with.
My hope for Amber, in the long run, is that she’s able to find a solid and stable source of comfort and a way to deal with her anger in a healthy way. Who knows? Maybe Sal can help with that. Sal might be selfish in a lot of ways, but I feel like she could be mature enough to help Amber if she honestly asked for it and explained what she’s going through.
…first time commenting and my thoughts are all over the place…oh well
If it makes you feel better, though Amber is the REASON Danny and Ethan haven’t at least tried giving it a shot, it’s not her FAULT.
As for your father, *hugs* to you. Expression of sympathy through light physical contact?
Expression of sympathy through light physical contact is happily accepted.
And yeah, it really isn’t Amber fault they haven’t given it a shot. I’m hoping for some sort of eventual long heart-to-heart between the three of them where Amber is okay enough to give her blessing…man I’m hoping for a lot here…
I’m still shipping Danny/Ethan/Amber (note, not Amazi-Girl) as a triad. Any pair of them, I think, is going to be a train wreck for one reason or another (and we’ve already seen two of the three combinations end that way), but with all three together, the third supplies some factor that the pairings are missing alone.
Honestly, at this point I think shipping Amber with anyone is a bad idea. I think she needs to get herself in (slightly less messed up) order before she gets into a romantic relationship – we’ll see how things develop, now that she’s humanised Sal.
I also need to see how more-assertive-Danny is coming along before I can comfortably put him in a polyamory relationship. Besides, Danny strikes me as a monogamist anyway – polyamory works for the people for whom it works, and it tends to blow up spectacularly for the people for whom it doesn’t.
Danny is basically the platonic idea of monogamy, yeah, but if he wanted to give it a shot then, what the hey, why not?
As for Amber, well, I’m always pretty skeevy on the idea of someone being “too messed up” for a relationship, but unless she was with Danny, someone who does understand what’s going on with her, then I kind of have to agree? IDK where does that thought process end? How much more “fixed” do you need to be before you’re allowed to try again?
Hopefully, “fixed” enough that you don’t switch to your alter at the sign of confrontation, especially when your alter tends to hit people. I’m not talking about full integration, here, but we’ve already seen how easily AG blows up at Danny, who is most definitely not in any condition to be in a relationship with someone who’ll deal more blows to his half-dead self-esteem.
I mean, that confrontation was her boyfriend hanging around with her arch nemesis, one with whom she associates massive amounts of untreated trauma. That’s a pretty extraneous circumstance.
And, like, I really resent the idea that Amber will crush his self esteem. Amber yelled at him once and broke down in guilt, but suddenly she’s one step away from being an abusive monster? If Dorothy yelled at Walky would this even be a conversation?
I have no idea which “once” you’re talking about, because she yelled at him after Joyce’s party, she yelled at him after he talked with Sal, and she yelled at him that time when she told him he wasn’t good enough, just from the top of my head.
These events might – MIGHT – not have much effect on someone who’s in a good place, but Danny is definitely NOT in a good place. Much of his life has been steeped in psychological and emotional abuse.
I don’t think anyone can argue that Amber or Amazi-girl treated Danny well as a significant other. Danny wasn’t perfect either, but he didn’t yell at her every single time his own emotional state was knocked off balance.
I also think Amber fears herself becoming an abusive monster more than anything else, which sucks for her, but it’s not an invalid fear. And it’s not *BOOM!* Congratulations, you’ve become an abusive monster. When something happens and a person’s emotional state is altered negatively in the extreme, the way they deal with it can start out okay but go downhill. Sometimes, they trip a couple times going down that hill, and no one really notices until it gets bad, and sometimes it snowballs. I imagine that with where Amber’s at, she tripped quite a few times already and hasn’t stopped to look around if anyone’s there who can help her with her scrapes and bruises. But if she keeps going and doesn’t deal with those cuts, eventually she’ll trip on that rock or branch that causes her to completely lose her balance and motor control and she’ll just start careening down the hill with no way to stop herself. And when she hits the bottom or finally manages to stop herself, well, the damage is already done.
As someone who’s been the “easy target” of someone else’s misplaced rage, it’s really easy to let that all pile up, even if you don’t let it dictate how you feel about yourself. For me, until I got to the point where I truly didn’t care anymore (which is a sad place to be), I was always angry. The way I reacted to always being blamed and yelled at was to get angry and shout right back.
Danny doesn’t strike me as the type to fight back. He seems more the type to just take it in and be non-confrontational. Maybe because he thinks Amber/Amazi-girl will feel better once she’s let all her feelings out in one big, explosive shit storm. And overtime, in the long run, I think that could do serious damage to his already admittedly low self-esteem.
In the beginning, Amber’s and Danny’s relationship was adorable, and I shipped it so much. But now that it’s developed further (even without the break up), I don’t think they, as their current selves, make a good couple.
I guess my problem with trying to respond with this is that I view the entire concept of “becoming your abuser” as, inherently, an invalid fear. People get angry, but if you weren’t abused and don’t associate with that stigma, then it’s acceptable that you are. Anger is just a Thing You Do and then get over, and no worse for wear. If you’re abused then the whole thing becomes a countdown until you go Manchurian Candidate and turn into what you were always doomed to become, and I’ve spent too much of my own life beating myself with that cudgel to acknowledge it as anything other than total bullshit. I am allowed to be angry without experiencing guilt, but because I fit into a specific criteria feeling that anger suddenly becomes a cause for concern.
Sufficed to say I disagree that they’re bad for each other. I think Amber’s in a place where she needs someone who’s supportive and willing to argue against her for her own sake, and I feel that way because of my own experiences, but then I’m sure your own views come from the same area, so to each their own I suppose.
Amber is allergic to talking to people about her problems.
It’s more of a case, at least I think so, that she doesn’t trust herself enough to spend time with people. She’s terrified that she might hurt them in some way.
I only just found out about Dumbing of Age a few days ago, went on an archive binge, and am now 100% up-to-date. And now, I find out there are even more comics with these characters, apparently dating all the way back to same year friggin’ Power Rangers Turbo came out. I’m having a bit of a panic attack from this revelation. Someone help, I think I might be drowning.
Roomies!, It’s Walky! and Shortpacked! are all comics that take place in an alternate universe to Dumbing of Age and have no bearing on this series.
That is not particularly comforting. I have a certain compulsion, you see. Once I become aware of a larger canon to something I enjoy, even just as an alternate continuity, my mind will not rest until I have devoured the entirety of this canon. In this particular case, I believe I will allow TV Tropes to gently guide me into the screaming ocean of storytelling, before I set sail on my own.
If it helps, he’s rerunning the Roomies!/It’s Walky! stuff at http://www.itswalky.com, so you could just binge to catch up then follow it a day at a time from there.
It is a good thing for Danny because he’s now free to date Ethan.
He’ll have to get past Mike first.
I forgot about that wrench into the subplot.
Hey so I know shippers gonna ship but can we not act like it’s a good thing that the mentally ill abuse victim is so full of self loathing that she thinks it’s for the best if her partner is away from her.
Because, y’know, eww.
Oh dear, oops my bad. I assumed that it would be fine and all since she broke it off with him, despite Danny’s efforts to keep their relationship afloat and healthy.
Hey willis, I don’t have a usable tumblr so I’ll post the link here.
It’s a pretty neat visual on funded kickstarter projects and you were mentioned for a paragraph. ctrl+f “Comics & Columbus”.
http://polygraph.cool/kickstarter/
No, Dorothy, you haven’t “been there with Danny.” For all the shitty things the Amber/AG duo did to Danny, at least they (question: is “they” the correct pronoun to refer to two alters of the same person, or would “she” be more appropriate?) had the decency to actually break up with him, instead of, y’know, going to college and, I don’t even know, hoping he could read minds?
Not comic related: anyone subjected themselves to yesterday’s debate, so I don’t have to? Prolonged exposure to Tantrump-speech makes me wish USAmerica takes a plummeting Chinese space station to the face, which makes me feel bad when I recall there’s a substantial minority that doesn’t want the vociferous orange as president. How long after it are polls run and numbers crunched?
Please don’t waste a perfectly good space station when a meteor will do… (I feel exactly the same)
I’m not – apparently, there’s a Chinese SS (the Tiangong-1) already decaying in orbit, and no-one knows where it’s crashing. I mean, I’m not crashing it on purpose, but, y’know, if it’s already falling we may as well get some use out of the thing…
Well that’s different then! Hmm where would be some good places for it to ‘land’…
An appropriate spot in North Korea would be incredibly ironic. But aside from that, just make sure it doesn’t land on Georgia Lass.
I don’t know offhand about polls, but I can tell you anyone with a brain saw that the orange menace was crushed, both by his opponent and by the goddamn moderator (at whom he spent minutes calling wrong about a statement of actual fact).
That… wasn’t a given going in? What’s wrong with you people? I mean, I don’t like Clinton, and I think she has been running the worst campaign that I’ve ever seen (and I’ve seen people literally buying votes with appliances, so the bar was really low), but that she can out-debate Tantrump was never in question – a turnip could do that.
I’m just not sure it’s going to reflect where it matters (i.e., the votes), because anyone who’d even considering voting for Tantrump in the first place isn’t going to be swayed by silly things like “truth” or “reason.” Unlike every previous campaign, this one isn’t a pandering campaign, it’s a motivating campaign, so the question is “Did Clinton’s performance motivate people to vote come November?”
Out-debating a liar isn’t easy. It’s really hard. Look up Gish Gallop.
Clinton did well. Not just technically – being better prepared with more substantive answers. She needled him into losing his cool and ranting – which doesn’t play so well on the debate stage to a general audience as it does at his rallies. And she did it without getting into a shouting match with him. He blustered and she controlled the debate.
It wasn’t a knock-out blow. People who like Trump like bluster, so they think he did well, but I’d be shocked if we don’t see movement in her direction in the polls over the next week or so.
Oh, I didn’t mean that it would be easy because he was a liar – as Pratchett put it, a lie can get halfway around the world while the truth is still getting its boots on. It’s just that a lie that WORKS under scrutiny needs brainpower and focus (brain scans of people telling the truth barely blip; lies turn the thing into a christmas tree) to not buckle as soon as you look at them, and Trump never struck me as someone who can keep his cool for 5 minutes, which IS needed to keep a lie going. I mean, he’s under no external pressure while making campaign speeches and he still flip-flops so much it looks like he’s at the beach.
Here’s to hoping you’re right – so far, it seems to be a photo-finish on the popular vote front, with Clinton winning only because POTUS elections are like puzzles – you get the edges and you’re pretty much set. The central states are worth peanuts. I’d like to be sure the US doesn’t implode come November in great advance – honestly, I’m baffled how it can be this close (though, to be fair, every poll made during the primaries said this was what going to happen with a Clinton-Trump clash).
That’s the beauty of the Gish Gallop. You don’t worry about your lies holding up to scrutiny, you just drop them and move on to the next one.
What’s wrong with what people, precisely? Because let me tell you, MOST of us are very unhappy about Trump’s general existence right now.
At least at the start of last week, Trump was ahead in popular vote, so, er, MOST of you were most definitely not, and that’s not even counting the people who aren’t intending to vote, meaning their approach to “Trump or Clinton” is “eh, whichever.”
MANY of you are very unhappy with Trump’s general existence right now, is what you mean.
Closer than I’d like and Trump’s been on top in a few polls, but the averages still have Clinton ahead.
And a lot of the non-voting isn’t so much “eh, whichever”, but “both are horrible”, which is the result of 30 years of propaganda dedicated to Clinton-hate.
She’s going to win. I’m less concerned about that than I was about Obama losing to Romney in 2012. It’s going to be an ugly 4 years though. This election’s ripping the covers off another ugly section of the American psyche – much like Obama’s did. Necessary, but nasty to live through.
To answer your question simply, the debate bought Hillary like an extra 3%. It’s still extremely close, and there’s another 2 months for her to do something to make everyone hate her again.
I’m honestly beginning to wonder if this will be a repeat of the 2004 election, when it was pretty much even and Florida was the tie-breaker state.
Dorothy’s naive optimism is so refreshing and nostalgic. Yes, just suggest to Amber that she rework her carefully constructed personality and act more like a sensible person (i.e. you). Just the kind of solution one would expect from a frosh in college. Life was so much simpler then and we hurt each other so carelessly.
That’s the main reason that people who say they regret nothing and would do it all again strike me as unreflective. I don’t have to think for thirty seconds before I can remember dozens of unkind or blind things I said to people. Dorothy will regret her blindness and assumptions here, but not for some time.
All Dorothy is doing is suggesting that Amber talk to someone about a major emotional event. Even for an introvert that’s not bad advice. She doesn’t know Amber well enough to realize how difficult that would be for her.
I would’ve thought she’d at least be able to go to Ethan with something like this, but I imagine there’s still feelings there that make it too difficult. Which Dorothy also wouldn’t know.
She did say she’d talk to Ethan today, and she’s hanging out with him later on according to preview panels.
But then she’s in costume by December sooo….. bad things.
Oh, ew, I just realised what has been irking me about this strip – “…I never asked Danny about what went down between you two.” Danny continues to be a non-person whose opinions and point of view are irrelevant to everyone, including his own parents. I think the only who break the mold are Ethan and, possibly, Sal.
It’s possible that Dorothy just doesn’t feel comfortable putting herself in the middle of what she perceives to just be a breakup (and worse, probably thinking that Amber broke up with him for the same reason Dorothy did).
I’d also say Amber breaks that mold, since we’re clearly seeing her now be a big ball of regret over breaking up with him and how she thinks he’s better off without her.
I’m not sure Danny would enjoy talking about getting dumped by Amber with the previous girl who dumped him.
Especially since he got really mad at Dorothy the last time she asked him about Amazi-Girl
Something I’ve just realized is that we might be seeing another split in how Amber and Amazi-Girl perceive Danny.
Amazi-Girl treats it like a massive breach of trust and as late as last night felt the same way, with her noting Sal calling Danny “wonderbread” by going “Oh, so you gave him a nickname. Well aren’t you two the best of friends?” as if his betrayal was something he was planning for a long time.
Amber’s reaction yesterday was to numb herself out of thinking about it before phasing out for AG the entire day, and now that she’s being confronted with someone who will believe anything she can say, all she can do is think about how Danny is better off without her.
I’m not sure if this is entirely because of Amber/AG being forced to recognize her own treatment of Sal and apologize, or if both alters do perceive him differently, but it’s worth thinking about.
Yeah, I’m thinking Amber is not as agreeing with AG that Danny was the party who acted wrongly, but seems to be internalizing it not so much as AG was wrong or dangerous to him, but that she as Amber posed an existing threat to him so it’s probably for the best he got out.
One strain of mythology replaced with another.
Yeah, I really think that’s where this is going.
There’s no problem with Amazi-Girl screaming at him for betraying her, the real issue is that Amber is shitty and broken and should fuck off, obviously.
I just realized that at some point I stopped thinking of noon as “noon” and started thinking of it as “12 hours until the next DoA strip”.
One of my things about Dorothy is that she can sometimes assume she knows what’s best for people without really knowing their situations, which can come across as very condescending. I mean, wanting to be a politician, you kind of have to think you know better/actually know better than most people but.
Like even though Amber doesn’t want to talk about it, she still goes “I’ve been exactly where you are” but she could also have said “I used to date Danny too, we can talk if you need to.” Although the latter is probably what she meant.
Same with even considering not telling Joyce about Ryan, thereby she and Amber “letting it go” and taking care of it for Joyce, because she has assumed Joyce is too fragile to handle it, and shes not even the victim, so how can people just decide what the victim should do without even including her?
Even with Walky, one of the issues in their relationship, along with his closed off ness and immaturity, is that she keeps trying to “fix” him- see the episode where she didn’t want him to wear pajamas in the mall (which a lot of college students do).
And at the same time, she seems to not really be sure whether she wants a serious relationship. Which is fine, but not when you’ve told your fwb that you want to be fwb, and then start wondering why they’re not your actual boyfriend and why aren’t they telling you their deepest secrets. Someone above said she may tend to go after emotionally unavailable men. I actually agree – I wonder if/when she even desires a relationship at all, will she be with a person who is actually “on her level” so to speak, rather than it being a pattern of her (ironically) chasing after them like they’re a child and she the teacher, until she breaks up because it’s too emotionally taxing for both of them.
I don’t think she’s terrible monster obviously, but I think she also has a lot of growing up to do like evryone else here. Like, I’m having trouble putting my finger on it, maybe sometimes you just have to let people be. Like she’s worried and compassionate, and she should prioritize herself , but she should for example let Joyce confront her problems the way Joyce would. Instead of jumping in for her. Let Walky learn, you dont have to be the one to teach him. People don’t always grow at the pace you think they should.
Dorothy did basically say “I used to date Danny, we can talk if you want.” She only made the “I’ve been there before” comment after Amber said “Danny will eventually realize us breaking up was for the best” (and after Dorothy completely misinterpreted what that meant). And then Dorothy again offered to talk with Amber if she wanted to.
I think she’s handled the Joyce/Ryan issue, appropriately, actually – Joyce DID tell her how she wanted it handled, which was to forget about the whole deal. Granted, it’s entirely possible she’s changed her mind since then, but if she knows Joyce is PTSD’ing about it, bringing up the issue is understandably something she doesn’t want to do.
I don’t think she goes after emotionally unavailable men – Danny’s not really that uncomfortable talking about his feelings and he has, in fact, gone to exactly her to talk about them. Also, no pursuing of Joe, who might just top the “emotionally unavailable” chart of everyone in this comic, including Galasso. I DO think she’s incredibly passive-aggressive in her romantic relationships, though.
Also, what is this magical land where college students would go in their pj’s to the mall, and WHY WASN’T I THERE DURING COLLEGE, DAMN IT?!
I have the same observation about the current trend for girls to wear leggings. Why the hell wasn’t that a thing when I went to uni?
True – Joyce did say so at the time, but I feel morally wobbly about them not telling her at all, even to just ask her about it.
Your second paragraph is more articulate to what I was trying to say. The way I define emotionally unavailable is in the sense that a person can’t talk about their feelings, OR they’re overwhelming you with their feelings, and therefore you can’t get a word in, so they are also emotionally unavailable to support you.
Yeah, I don’t know! We rolled out of bed all the time. The sports kids went everywhere in sweats and shorts.
So I’m sketchy on the timeline, but has Dorothy known Walky for several weeks at this point? For some reason I thought they’d only started dating a week or two ago.
It’s been at least six months since the beginning of the comic (in comic-time), so yeah; they’ve been together a couple months.
It’s only been six weeks.
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: Women apologizing for the men in their lives acting socially inappropriate. Ah, common life occurrences.
And no, I’m not slagging Walky, he was being a goofball, just noting how that is a common social trope that people fall into all the time because it’s so normalized. Which is brought heavily to mind in reference to watching the debates last night and how perfectly it demonstrated the “woman has to be twice as good as a man to be taken half as seriously” tropes and “aggressive ignorant man constantly interrupts woman when she’s speaking and she’s supposed to accept that in good humor” tropes.
Panel 2: D’aw, Dorothy’s face here. That combo of embarrassment and “Bob help me, I love that dope” is kinda super adorkable.
Panel 3: Aw, follow-up check about how she’s coping after the breakup. And yay, that means we finally get to see Amber’s reaction to all this rather than just the AG alter. I also love the little add she throws in to say she’s sad that it happened and how she shifted the conversation this way after worrying about the PDA being rude.
Dorothy is a really good friend, which is why I’m a little sad that she’s so starved for effective emotional support at the moment. It’s the downside of being seen as the hypercompetent helper personality type is that everyone comes to you for advice and help, but you end up feeling really alone when you’re struggling with stuff and need emotional support yourself.
To the last part: yeah, it’s so hard sometimes to find people who accept you as you are, even when you’re feeling down or weak ornot happy go lucky all the time.
One of the first steps is ditching the people who only are your friends in fair weather. And another is to learn that you can’t jump in and fix everyone’s problems for them, even if they expect you to or you attach your self worth to how useful you are (in the literal sense) to others. Ive had to do the first step recently, but later it was so much easier to basically not be someone’s emotional mother/punching bag all the time.
Also the debate last night was pretty hard to watch.
I watched a documentary about General Tso’s Chicken instead of the debate, and I have no regrets.
I watched a slug crawl across the patio. It was more intellectually satisfying than watching the debate.
Yeah, that’s a good observation about Dorothy’s lack of emotional support. It was extra clear when Joyce came back and she basically wagged her tail by the door (Puppy Dorothy!!!) for having her back home.
All the people she is close to in college are in the middle of one disaster or another. Walky is on suicide watch for Billie. Joyce and Becky have a laundry list of trauma. Danny is Dannying.
I wish we would see more of her interaction with Sierra.
Sierra has recently fallen into a massive depression as the weather starts to cool down and she is forced to wear shoes.
For the debate: “Backwards and in heels” and she made it look easy.
Panels 4-5: Innnnnteresting. That look away, guilty face, and short pause. I don’t think Amber agrees 100% with AG’s narrative of Danny “betraying” her and may even view AG’s actions as wrong and abusive towards Danny.
I mean, that “it was a good thing it ended” is such a line, because it’s one of those things frequently said after realizing an aspect of a relationship dynamic was particularly toxic. And this time, the toxicity very much didn’t come from Danny’s end in the way it did in his breakup to Dorothy (see why she reacts the way she does in the next panel).
And that bit where she says he’ll eventually see it as a good thing… it’s interesting, because Amber is currently being saddled with the blame of AG’s run of bad decision-making so AG can still be the golden alter. She “corrupted” the spirit of the mission and is the thing AG is “protecting Sal from” and so on.
So it’s clear AG has dumped off her fuck-ups regarding Danny on Amber as well, blaming her “temper” and other negative qualities for driving the blow-up. Which is why Amber looks guilty rather than upset. Because in her mind, she must have caused AG’s bad actions with Danny, so she’s viewing herself as so toxic that she can’t even exist in the backseat to their love affair.
It’s tragic and I would love to see her call out AG’s golden alter pretensions and place the blame where it actually belongs.
Panel 6: And here’s the other half of why that line works so well, because it also works as a “things weren’t going in a great direction and I had to break stuff off but he’ll be in a better place afterwards”. And that interpretation plays well for Dorothy, because that was her experiences with Danny. She doesn’t know about the yelling or the accusations or how much Danny has grown in the last few weeks letting go of a lot of his old toxicity.
She’s gotten some idea of the last part of it, but still, this interpretation feels more accurate with the info she’s got so far, especially with AG being so upset with him and accusatory about him the night before, slagging his name and intentionally trying to drive away some of his support network.
It’ll be interesting how Dorothy will react when she finds out the actual truth of what happened.
Panel 7: This is 100% accurate to how introverts deal with emotional turmoil.
I mean, sure, I could reach out to a support network, but they’d probably hate me anyways and requires social batteries, so I’ll just fetal position on the bed instead. Isolation always makes everything better… (no, no it doesn’t).
I… didn’t get Danny-toxicity from their relationship (well, the little we know about it). Roomies! Danny was definitely toxic, DoA one not really? Or maybe it’s an effect of their relationship not being actually shown? He had clingy elevated to an art-form, though.
Note: I went back to the earliest strips to check for toxicity and in one strip Danny says he’ll “update [Dorothy’s] patches” (no, this is not a metaphor). What the hell, Danny, you’re supposed to be tech-savvy – that sounds like something my grandad would say, and he’s dead! Are you going to ask who delivers e-mail as well?
Danny was hoping for Dorothy to abandon her dreams so she could stay at IU and marry him. That’s pretty bad.
I think you are right that our perception of their relationship is based on the sour end. They dated for two years so something must have gone right.
Danny was also hoping to advise President Dorothy on her IT issues (but seriously, update her patches, wth?), so it sounds like he could do with whatever – not exactly stellar performance, but I wouldn’t qualify it as toxic.
For the record, he couldn’t possibly be more dismissive of her dreams than I am, because “an atheist woman who evades confrontation” doesn’t really strike me as a winning combo for political success, especially in Indiana. Hells, US polls show that people would prefer an actual criminal than an atheist in the white house – guess they’re getting their wish come November, though.
We don’t actually SEE much of the toxicity beyond that one comment just before they broke up, but given his clingyness and the uncharacteristically angry reaction from,Dorothy, its very heavily implied that this had been going on for weeks.
Considering he got so clingy he followed her to college, there’s no way he’d been handling it well. Or anything else he perceived as getting between them
I concede the point that, due to lack of both personal experience in toxic relationships and pre-college information, I may be not seeing Danny-toxicity that is actually there.
I can’t find any any more explicit examples, but the way Dorothy just explodes at Danny after that one, seemingly minor comment is what seals it for me.
To me, it had the distinct feel of being the final straw, the last in a long series of little discouraging remarks, transparently aimed at keeping her within reach, even if that meant trying to steer her away from what she clearly wanted to do with her life.
I doubt any one comment was much worse than the one we actually saw though. Danny isn’t — and wasn’t — a bad guy. He was just scared and desperate, and probably totally blind to how hurtful he was being. It would have been the persistence of it that got to Dorothy. Just the continued effort to talk her out of pursuing her dreams, as if they didn’t matter.
Maybe it was bad in the sense that being with someone like that is terribly draining – and you also never have time to take care of yourself because you’re giving the other person all your attention and resources, from Dorothy’s perspective.
For the other perspective, see how Danny kinda didn’t know what to do with himself, his only semi-friend was Joe, etc- he hadn’t been working on himself at all, meanwhile Dorothy was making friends and focusing on her classes.
Following an SO to college is BIG decision and indicates significant attachment, like Fart Captor said above. Unfortunately Dorothy did not feel the same way about Danny, though she definitely could have been clearer about it.
I wouldn’t go so far to say it was toxic, but it definitely had the potential to be. Then again, things don’t have to be awful for you to break up with someone. You can just not want to be with them anymore.
I’m not going to touch the issue of which US presidential candidate has apparently committed crime, but one of the major party candidates is a Methodist and possibly the most publicly Christian candidate since Jimmy Carter, and the one identifies as Presbyterian and ostentatiously courts the Evangelical vote. So unless there is a meteor strike or some equivalent, there is zero chance there will be an atheist in the White House next January.
Dorothy is the atheist in question.
Speaking as a certified introvert the panel 7 thing does sound pretty familiar.
Also, I keep on loving all your insightful analysis.
I assume Introvert Certifiers make house calls.
These days they do, yeah. You still have to undergo some tests and trials to prove that you’re sufficiently introverted, but they aren’t nearly as harsh as they used to be.
I’m not sure how likely Dorothy really is to learn the truth about the breakup. I mean, if it serves the story in the future she will, but she hasn’t bothered to ask yet and Amber’s response here seems to cement Dorothy’s belief that this breakup is the same as hers for the same reasons. Heck, the reason Amazi-girl gave is ‘he lost the faith’, and a big reason Dorothy broke up with Danny was that he didn’t believe in her dreams.
Also, she knows Danny to be someone who is literally loyal to a fault, who doesn’t let go of people even when it’s in both of their best interest. Even when given hint after hint that things are ending or over. It is not unbelievable at all to her that Danny being Danny would drive a girlfriend to the edge until she dumps him for his own good.
Thus, it’s entirely possible that she just doesn’t have any further curiosity, as the narrative she’s been presented is cohesive and fits with her experience of Danny.
“Amber is currently being saddled with the blame of AG’s run of bad decision-making so AG can still be the golden alter.”
How does that cycle end, though? The thing about warped perceptions is that it’s really hard to break out of them.
Recognizing that Amazi-Girl is capable of mistakes, and that Amber isn’t a monster who needs to caged for everyone’s good.
What Spencer said.
amb allergics to human…
hOIVS!
Meanwhile of course Amber’s remembering the times she DID step out of line with Danny and is totally using them to amp up her “it was all Amber’s fault, Amazi-Girl was faultless, anyway it’s better for Danny anyway” narrative and oh Amber honey sweetie noooo.
what time is it 🙁
did you switch timezones again 🙁
Willis’ server time keeps getting later and later…