No.. No!!! NNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! I THOUGHT I HAD GOTTEN AWAY FROM THIS!!! I THOUGHT I HAD SURVIVED THIS APOCALYPSE BUT YOU JUST STARTED A NEW ONE! Look at what you’ve DONE! Yoou mOnster…
What? Ruth is just thinking it would be nice to watch a horror movie. I know a good* Friday the 13th flick always cheers me up when I’m blue.
*Note that “good” as applied to F13 movies is not the same as “good” applied to movies as a whole. Proper viewing procedure is to watch at 2am in the summer or fall while mildly intoxicated. To the casual observer, good and bad F13 movies look much the same, so careful selection is important. For the record let be be known that the good ones are 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, and FvJ.
Mine, someday!
It still surprises me a little, every time, how upset people get about nonlethal suicidal ideation. I mean, you should be upset, y’all are correct, this is upsetting to any reasonable person. Maybe I’m too used to it, or it just kicks my brain into another mode that is more focused and calm, I dunno.
I know, right? Yeah, she’s at the “gee I wish I were dead” stage but this is confirming she’s also in the “too much overwhelming drain to actually do anything about it” part too.
Which don’t get me wrong is a TERRIBLE state to be in, but I don’t think she’s actually a threat to herself at the moment because that would take more effort than she can have! Look on the bright side! *Terrifying “I’m fine” Ruth smile*
And, also, the fact that part of the road to a better state of mind involves the higher risk of harm due to the drain going away before the ideation goes away.
Actually! There’s a logical reason for that- they’ve reached the point where if you’re not careful, you can _fuck things up badly_. No one likes the risk of pushing things over the edge.
Carla marches back and forth outside Ruth’s room holding signs that read “Billingsworth Unfair!” and “Amateur therapists demand living cookie wage!”, but alas, none of this helps improve Ruth’s mental state.
Seriously. And she understands that this isn’t something she has the tools to handle. So the real question is what’s her follow-up. Because she still cares and she still wants Ruth to end up okay but she also has a loathing of authority and a mistrust that it will serve the best interests of someone marginalized.
So, is she gonna suck up that feeling and let her bosses know even though that might actually hurt Ruth more? Is she gonna recruit Sal to help her out? Is she gonna surreptitiously call student health services to schedule Ruth an appointment?
Makes sense. Past is precedent there. And Billie is the person who asked her to check up on Ruth and the person that Ruth said was her “one ray of happiness”. So yeah, that’s a good shout right there.
And potentially a specific mistrust of therapists, at that. I mean admittedly as someone who is very much not trans I’m only going off secondhand knowledge so feel free to correct me, and I’m betting the Ruttens were at least able if they ran into any medical gatekeeping to go “we have money and we’re going to find someone who WON’T be a butthole,” but I’m under the impression medical and psychiatric officials can be seriously shitty to trans people, kids included?
Of course we’ve got no idea what Carla’s specific experiences were like, but while I think she’s more likely to call Student Health than say Joyce, she’s definitely below say Roz.
twoc fuck therapists if i could see my old therapist again id probably have to hold myself back from breaking her teeth. they dont care about us they want to /study/ us write about us build a career off us. i have no respect for therapists bc of this
trans women and girls are most vulnerable to this kind of treatment. weve been used for exoeriments for hundreds of years by doctors and therapists and scientists
Sympathy and fuck that therapist. Honestly fuck all those ‘ooh you’re such fascinating puzzles to be solved’ types in general. (Autistic, so non-identical but vaguely similar history wrt experimentation.)
I knew of a trans person who needed a trans therapist because they were totally fine and well-adjusted with being trans, but also had depression, because sometimes people get depression. Cisgender therapists kept assuming that the person was depressed *because* they were trans, it took a trans therapist to believe that the two were unrelated, and to address just the depression!
Anyway, Her, I am sorry that you had super shitty medical folks. 🙁 I hope that the therapists/doctors/etc get themselves educated, and/or that you find other stuff that works a thousand times better for you.
While it’s possible/likely Carla has had shitty experiences with therapists, I feel fairly confident that she and her parents found her one that actually worked for her no matter how long it took, so presumably she trusts ONE. Even if said therapist specializes exclusively in transpersons, Carla could perhaps ask her therapist to recommend someone good for Ruth.
in my experience every therapist is shit especially ones who “specualize” in trans persons. im no ones wet dream ill break someones jaw and have them in a hospital if they make me feel like one
I am trans, and I have the sweetest therapist(whom I go to for mostly unrelated reasons). I’d be far from the good place I am in without him, majorly since I have (apparently standalone) psychosis and he is the first doctor who could talk me through enough unsuccessful meds until we found the right one. He is the first doctor I ever had who knew how to TALK to people, period, really.
That’s the one major feat you need to look out for in a therapist: If they talk in excessive science speak and don’t show at least some empathy while you tell of your issues, it should be the first and the last time you visited them. No amount of medical knowledge, precedent memorized and goodwill will worth anything if they don’t have the social skills to give that to you in a digestible way.
Yeah, I know a lot of my trans siblings have had shitty experiences with the medical field, but there’s non-shitty doctors and therapists out there that are genuinely trans aware (and not in the creepy “I’ve been doing this for years including the years where therapists were gatekeepers for any type of medical treatment and thus tend to fetishize my trans patients” way).
Planned Parenthoods tend to be really good for that as well and areas like the Bay Area have resources that can help find decent therapists and support groups: http://www.gaylesta.org/
But I can understand the frustration.
In comic, though, I tend to agree with Tan. She hasn’t stated the same therapy is bullshit line as Sal and her parents were probably more likely to speak up when a therapist was being dehumanizing. That being said, if she’s on hormones, thanks to the level of gatekeeping currently at play, she must have at least spoken a bit to a psychiatrist at the least in order to be “cleared as trans”. So she theoretically has some experience with the world of therapy and some form of opinion about it.
ok but trans people and trans women/girls are def treated very differently, and ive seen every therapist in my city they never last a full session bc they either interupt and tell me i cant be upset about that or they find another way to invalidate my feelings which arise from me being a twoc. ie. ppl video taping me taking pics of my whisperings and laughing from when i would take the bus being followed around stores by poor little cis women bc theres this “man” in the womens section of the clothing dept. etc. being told that those are things that i cant be hurt by will make me never say a word to whoever says that ever again
Possible, but depending on where Carla lives when not a student (and she’s a sophomore, so she doesn’t have to be in a dorm,) they might be well out of range. Especially since the family probably can go pretty far out of their way to find one who’s at least decent. (Maybe Carla got super lucked-out and found a therapist who is themselves trans?) When you’ve got a good one and can you go back to them rather than rolling the dice with another one for the school year.
Meh. I have awesome parents who support me. But they know nothing about how to deal with suicidal ideation (source: they didn’t know how to deal with mine. Parents aren’t always the ideal source of support or knowledge.
Depends on the cookie. Sourdough specialist and lover of all things from the kitchen (puts on glasses that have no lenses, because they is more smarter that way).
A good gingersnap, or even better, a snickerdoodle fresh from the oven is worth at LEAST 2.5 butter cookies.
Now we’re getting into conversion rates, quality of ingredients, mass market vs local shop. Gonna need a gods damned degree Couverture-Economics to get it done right.
At the end of the day, the fact that they are a non-durable, easily-produced good makes most economists agree that cookies are a terrible form of currency. In light of an alarming spike of people making this proposal, for the good of economies everywhere the economists must confiscate the cookies.
a) She thought she was just generally bummed out because of the breakup and blackmail, but that wasn’t as bad as a full depression.
b) She thought Ruth was just being creepy Ruth and so even if it was setting off her alarm bells, she said she was fine and so it’s just Ruth being creepy and weird and emo.
c) Carla has been in that sort of funk before and didn’t actually recognize it as depression and so just chalked it up to one of those funks that eventually get resolved (with massive family love and being able to transition).
d) She was massively skeeved out and had no idea what Billie was hinting at with regards to Ruth not being dead and checking up on her and figured it was just dramatic kids being dramatic and Ruth wasn’t dead and creepy smiled, so yay, any excuse to nope right out of the serial killer room.
I dunno, are there any possibilities I’m missing here?
e) She kinda did understand what was happening, but only in an intellectual sense. Like book learning, except not even book learning because she hasn’t really studied the subject. As usual, dealing with the reality face-to-face is another beast entirely.
Yeah, “oh yes you are depressed” is different from actually seeing a very depressed, very murder-cave-y, terrifyingly numbed out person and it can take a bit to figure out what to actually do with your terrifyingly numbed out person.
She wasn’t dead the whole time… NO! Because it was really me, DIO BRANDO!!!!!!! (Insert muscle flex pose that wouldn’t be out of place… If this were a leather beefcake advertisement.)
Oh, man, can’t leave the bed, thinking death is nice. The only plus side of that is that she’s too catatonic to be a likely immediate risk to herself, but it’s probably worth it to remove all the sharp objects and pills from the room just in case. Ruth needs anti-depressants in the worst way, but probably fears (possibly rightfully) that she’ll lose her position and the small freedom it buys if she seeks out mental health services.
Also, Carla, you’re trying. That matters a lot and good on you for recognizing a situation far outside your ability to help. Now, the real question is who do you go to next for backup?
Short, sweet and simple. Good to see you back in the comment section. And yes to all of that. Plus she needs someone keeping an eye on her, cause you can OD on antidepressants.
Or they can get you just out of the catatonic funk enough to be able to act on those thoughts, before it gets you through to “not suicidally depressed”. Yeah, once she’s on them (and she very very much needs them like three weeks ago) there should definitely be someone on watch.
Someone pointed to the convo Ruth and Carla had yesterday. Ruth did tell Carla that she was going through withdrawal/detox, which would have seemed like a good explanation for why she was clearly in bad shape.
Carla going “you look a bit awful and murder cavey, but you’re saying you’re in withdrawal which will put you a bit under the weather and you’ve been through a bad breakup and so would look a bit down and out. So, yeah, your sluggishness and generally being down makes sense. But hey, you sat up and you said you were fine at early o’ clock, so I’m gonna chalk it up to all of that and you being weird, because what else could it be?
I’ve been on both sides of this conversation, and I’m still at a loss. What do you do? Just keep listening, and offer whatever form of comfort seems best? Are reassurances good, or are they hollow, meaningless platitudes that fall flat? Try to help make a plan to help the general situation, or is that simply an added burden? It’s easier, in some ways, when it’s someone you know, and you can assure them that you care, that their life has meaning to you, that you want them to be okay on a personal level, but what do you say when it’s a relative stranger -when you both know that that’s not really going to help? Do you remind them of responsibilities, or does that just increase the feeling of worthlessness and obligations that weigh too heavily? How the heck does anyone deal with this? (Trained or not.)
I try and settle for “okay, let’s get you eating, let’s get you awake, anything else is probably a stretch but it probably is a good idea to get you Out Somewhere if we can” myself, but that’s with someone in my immediate family who I know very well but am nonetheless not the sole support person there. (If there’s an upside to depression running in the family, it’s that after a certain point everyone’s like “Oh yeah, we know exactly that feeling” and are sympathetic in a “been there, done that, let’s work on getting you to a point where you at least have some more spoons to work with before we try anything complicated” sort of way.)
It’s also good to gauge how many spoons they have. Some days might be a getting up, getting a few things done day. Others might be catatonic in the room and unresponsive to questions so make sure there’s nothing they can hurt themselves with nearby and they have some food and some periodic boops of “hey, we care about you” and open offers for specific tasks.
Disclaimer: I am in no way, shape or form a trained professional, I just read a lot of stuff.
There are not a lot of things you can do right, but there are a lot of things you can do wrong.
Generally speaking when talking to a depressed person:
1. Validate their feelings and take them seriously. Don’t go “why’d you say that? You have a perfect life and so much to live for” or “just smile”. Let them explain their feelings and say things like “I can see why you feel that”.
2. Your most immediate goal should be to find out if this is a situation where the person is an immediate threat to themselves. To find this out, you can usually straight up ask if they are seriously considering suicide. If they say yes, ask if they have a plan (“If you really were to take your life, how’d you do it”). If they answer yes and and have a realistic plan and have the means to carry out the plan, notify the emergency services responsible for that person’s place of residence.
If notifying 911 is not an option (because in these days, you may very well run into a stranger or friend on the Internet who you don’t know the real name or address of), attempt to reach out to someone at their place of residence or social circle who might be in a position to notify 911. If all else fails (or in parallel), notify the admins of the platform where you are talking. They may have means to find out more information about the person.
3. Don’t make this about yourself. Don’t say “You scare me” or “Stop saying this” or “How am I supposed to deal with that”. This is about them and their needs, not yours. I guarantee that unless this talk triggers you, the other person is worse off than you right now.
4. When the person starts cutting ties with everyone and finishing unfinished business, so to speak, that’s a red flag. Acutely suicidal people who made the decision already tend to get this “oh, I will be fine in a few days” thing and make a scarely happy/relieved impression.
5. If you have a depressed person around you, or you are someone who somehow tends to attract such people to themselves, it might help you to practise correct behaviour in case of suicidal ideations in front of a mirror or with a friend. Then if the day comes, you won’t be so overwhelmed by the real stuff.
6. Wikihow has several resources on how to deal with depressed people, suicidal people and suicidal relatives. As far as I could see, they give good advice.
Yeah, this is waaaaay beyond what she can do and she knows that. Ruth’s not an immediate threat to herself right now, time to nope out and seek backup.
I’m sure it’s a mystery, but as someone who is within easy biking distance to Wrigley Field (home of the Chicago Cubs, for you non-North Americans), I’m hardly one to claim it’s a unique mystery.
I mean really, if breaking up with Billie was all so she wouldn’t lose her job, Ruth might as well have not even bothered, since she’s going to lose her job anyway since she’s apparently never going to leave her room again.
Just think how much more Ruth can terrorize the hall as some unstoppable undead menace with supernatural powers! She’s thinking it and thinks it’s awesome!
… no? That’s not what she’s thinking?
Dammit that’s what EVERYONE should be thinking ALL THE TIME.
Well, yes, it probably is beyond your pay grade. You aren’t getting paid. That pretty much means the only thing within the spectrum of your pay grade is taking a nap.
I once broke up an LTR and shut myself in my room for two days, not even coming out to eat. My housemates called my family.
I had to explain to them that the food poisoning I had prevented me from wanting to complain to the world at large about how much my ex had stolen from my wallet, and how many times.
Yeah you’re uh, doing a good job there of cheering her up Carla, I don’t know if you’re most deserving or less deserving of a award the best effort because this is probably like moving mountains.
She tried her best with her own brand of humor/helping, but stepping out now is probably a good move on her part. While not the first choice someone else might make, she’s not wrong. She is not equipped with the right words to say to that, nor does she know what Ruth needs.
You work with the tools you have, and Carla is unfortunately under equipped to deal with depression of this sort. I’m sorry my glibness over the caricature of what Carla once was, in another universe, has upset you. It was not my intent.
Don’t underestimate her empathy.
She won’t want to care, because caring about people hurts, but she’s cynical enough to accept that she can’t always get what she wants.
I agree with this -I feel like Sarah’s capable of empathy; she just doesn’t want to be, because people have hurt her and trying to help others has gotten her badly hurt in the past. Also want to add that having a catatonic and suicidal RA could potentially hurt her grades as it means that trash is piling up, disputes aren’t being resolved, and rules aren’t getting enforced.
sarah and carla are the most relatable characters for me: im a twoc and every time i got close to someone i got hurt. bad. im angry and antagonizing and to protect myself im very hostile. i care deeply for about 5 ppl. i get really angry when i see ppl attack the bc those are character traits that exist very strongly in me and it feels personal bc of it
“twoc” = “taken without owner’s consent” ??
I’m guessing that you want ‘twoc’ to mean “trans woman of color” but the Internet seems to have other ideas.
she prob would actually. letting becky stay and looking out for dina bc she knows that their relationship will probably end up with dina being really hurt doesnt get her higher grades and she doesnt really know dina too well theyre not friends yet shes not the heartless butch shes painted out to be shes just not a joyce-esque optimist shes had plebty of shit happen and she wants to be someone
Yeah, she cares and she tries to do right. She just doesn’t always know what that right thing is and she’s got a lot of scars from the last time she got really entangled in someone’s life and so is very hesitant to get that deep again because she assumes that that is the road to pain.
…what happens to Ruth if she goes home? What do we know about her uncle? Her brother seems to like living with him well enough, but she absolutely loathed everything about the situation?
On the other hand, Sarah’s tendency to go to authority is “call parents” and I am definitely suspecting very very bad things with Sir. Though Joyce’s “please don’t they’ll pull me out” means if Ruth reacts really badly to that like I think she might, Sarah would probably go “Okay, but we NEED to take serious action right now over this even if it’s not calling your parents.”
Now there’s an idea. Though I assume the Becky living situation needs to be cleared up before Sarah acts as a covert RA. Or is that plotline too Walkyverse Hijinks?
I mean I’m not sure how longer we can practically have Amazi-Girl as our resident Occasional Segue Into Superheroics and Action before she hits the breaking point, and Sarah has been shown as willing to go Old Testament God when really needed. And, well… SOMEONE needs to be keeping an eye on the dorm while others keep an eye on Ruth.
I’ve been on both sides of this and it’s a total suckstorm no matter which you’re doing.
Every time I’ve tried to help the depressed person has gotten pissed off at me for being worried enough to ask for help on their behalf. I’ve lost two friends for doing something, but they’re still alive, so it’s still a win. Even though it didn’t feel much like one.
One friend was so hard to read we never really understood how depressed he was until he walked into his room after having an argument with his roommate and shot himself. No note, no wallowing, just closed the door and bang.
It’s like, how do you even know what to do half the time?
It can be difficult and there’s a lot of just being there, following leads, doing preventative stuff…
But it can be really thankless because the depressed person often is low on spoons and beating themselves up for needing help if they’re responsive at all. At this point, with the sheer volume of people in my life who’ve been depressed, I’ve gotten relatively good at the whole supporting a depressed person, but that’s not an easy thing to do and Carla in no way signed up for this or has the experience to handle it with any manner of tact or aplomb.
She’s still gonna try, because that’s who she is, but this is definitely jumping right in at the deep end of the pool and trying to learn to swim on the fly.
Cerberus, I just wanted to say to your second paragraph there — thanks for acknowledging just how hard it can be, as a depressed person, to accept help, even when it’s offered freely and with loving friendship. That’s a difficulty seldom recognized, and not knowing that it will feel difficult makes it all the harder to not snarl at the person giving help you wish you didn’t need, which of course (especially in the DoA years) can make it hard for a person to continue trying to help, or even wanting to be friends.
Plus when you’re dealing with your own shit, trying to help someone with depression is harder. Comparison can crop up, and then resentment over it.
Is there an alternate to spoons? That reference always struck me as being odd, or perhaps more out of place. So long as you have at least one spoon, you’re good.
Is there a comment system that allows the creation of trigger warnings or at least spoiler tags (which would hide text) for WordPress? This site could really use that.
It’s the <abbr> tag. the text you want hidden goes into the ‘title’ property. You also need to close out the tag as well, with a </abbr> tag.
Example of end product: Hopefully I remembered my HTML force characters correctly. If not, it’s the angled brackets, normally in the bottom right of keyboards.
JT: Very good question. There’s not really a Right Way to deal with depression, unfortunately. There are a bunch of wrong ways (like telling them to just snap out of it), but each person’s experience is different, and depression is a legitimately difficult problem. I can’t give a one-size answer.
I suppose the best case scenario, you can get them resources (like the number of a psychiatrist and therapist) and kindly hold their hand while they choose to access the resources. Hopefully they do it.
But, aside from that, there is no secret, you can’t really know what to do. Depression is vicious, and confusing, and it wasn’t your fault.
Carla will report this to the proper authorities like a smart person. “Hey listen, my RA is maybe suicidal and hasn’t left her room in like, days? Maybe get on that.”
OR she will not do that and I will continue to seethe with fury.
The problem is that she’s got an earned mistrust of authority and its ability to help, which is why she didn’t go to them when the Mary situation kicked off. So she probably associates authority and the telling there of in crisis points as just an invitation for things to get so much worse.
And that’s a shame because Ruth does need to seek out mental health care yesterday, but I don’t see Carla being the one to make that call.
I’m wondering if making that call (I’d like to think she’ll nag Billie into it) will shift Ruth’s apparent situation from miserable-from-illicit-breakup to mental-health-issue, which could disarm Mary nicely.
(especially if her accusations against Ruth and Billie are perceived as harassment against someone who’s vulnerable, which, that could be a big-time own goal.)
Oooh, looking it up? There may be the perfect option here if Carla’s savvy to it. Granted, they’re not for emergency services which is the point Ruth needs, but it’d be a hell of a lot better than a random untrained person and they’d probably be able to steer her towards “no, you need help, YESTERDAY”.
(Actually looking it up I’m super-impressed by IU’s Health Services, at least going from the website.)
… its been one day try learning about how things tome out in comic world: this morning carla brought her breakfast talked to her made sure she was alive. went to her room. got in an argument with walky. chased dorothy. heard something about mental illness a subject she knows nothing about. and checked in on her. now shes going to get her some real help honestly i really hate you and your low key transmisogynistic ass sorry trans women arent fucking perfect honestly if i were carla id’ve told billie off. shes not my friend and her ex aint my responsibility engineering is a hard as course and i need to study i have my own life i absolutely hate people who look at carla whos done so fucking much more than necissary ad get mad at her screw you screw everyone angry at carla shes done more than enough imo. tbh idrc when non tw die bc none of you care when we die. proof: how many tw died this year? suicides included. no one fucking knows bc no one gives a damn about us other than us
Okay, seriously, you need to calm down. I understand things are seriously unfairly rough for trans women. I experience this on a regular basis through my trans friends, and they’ve been particularly bad lately. But just because someone criticizes an action (or lack thereof) of a trans person doesn’t make them transmisogynistic. Yes, she’s not perfect, and she’s allowed to not be perfect. And not everybody likes everybody. But Sageress is allowed to not like /a/ trans person without being accused of hating /all/ trans people.
….I am confused as to how this storyline is transmisogynistic since Carla is portrayed as a very decent person, albeit one that is not sure how to deal with depression?
Nobody (not even Billie) said it’s her job or responsibility to check on Ruth, she’d doing this out of the reluctant goodness of her heart.
She isn’t saying the storyline is transmisogynistic, she’s saying Sageress’s criticism of Carla is. (which I think is a strong overreaction, unless I missed a post somewhere else where Sageress said something more damning.)
basically any time carla does anything sageress is like: “fuck carla for not being perfect and being a dynamic character” its just like… shes very adamant about hating /the only/ known trans woman in this cast and its just a touch telling
Carla has gone above and beyond the call of duty here. She has no attachment to Ruth, and that sort of stuff can be incredibly draining and terrifying to deal with. Don’t mind at all if she has to bow out at this point due to being beyond her comfort zone
So. Yesterday it was Ruth, and today it’s Billie. I still think you’re trying to tell me something, Grav Roulette. I just have no idea what.
I have a hard time relating to Billie. She has delusions of popularity and I have delusions of persecution. She persecutes nerds and I am one. (Or am I a geek? I don’t know the difference any more.) She’s full of dangerous self confidence that makes her overextend, and I’m full of self-doubt that keeps me under-extended. She’s an extrovert, I’m an introvert. So very much my opposite.
But there is an overlap. We both see ourselves as problem-solvers and helpers… even when we don’t entirely earn the title. We both have a half-earned conceit of being knowledgeable dispensers of wisdom and advice. We both stand up against injustice where we perceive it, and we have a stubborn streak a mile long. If I had to choose a DofA character to walk through Hell with me, I’d choose…. well, Mary or Ryan or Toedad or Dickdad, because why would I want to inflict Hell on anyone else? But if I wanted someone to back me up in a tight situation that required determination and fire more than skill or knowledge, it would be Billie.
I…. COULD relate to her in those specific ways. But she’s still a bad fit for me in so many other ways.
It’s an interesting thought, but no. I’m going to stick with my idea of Jason/Gav. But at least you made me think about it, Grav Roulette.
Maybe tomorrow you’ll manage to communicate whatever you’re trying to tell me.
It’s decided to be whoever’s Relevant today! (In this case, Billie’s here in spirit as the one person who might have any idea how to get Ruth on something resembling functional enough to leave bed.)
Shitty medical officials are the absolute worst, especially since there are so. so. so many of them. And they’re the ones who are supposed to make people feel better.
never met a doctor who i trusted i use one to get my prescriptions and he knows not to fuck w/ me too i drive a motorcycle from india that i just bought from my job engine is 3x more powerful than any piece of crap ducatti abd it wont break after you start the engine
Spiffy and doing nothing to dispel my image of you as literal Sal.
And yeah, half the time the best I hope for is ‘will give me refills on prescription and not actively make me cry for fortyfive minutes in their office’. Anything better than that’s a bonus.
i keep my sentences short and simple with them. im a trans woman. known for a damn long time. i want to “transition”. yes. no. goodbye. im very similar to sal surfacely closer to joyce with ppl i like. not many of those though. im too tired for bullshit from ppl
Hi, I’m a stranger on the internet. I dunno if it helps at all, but I care about you. 100% genuinely.
Do you live in a city? You probably already know this, but just in case, there are online lists of health places that trans folks have rated as better for trans folks. I hope you get better access to medical people who don’t suck so damn much.
Her isn’t an expert on medicine, but she’s the world’s premiere expert on herself! In a proper therapeutic relationship, the doc brings the medical knowledge, the client brings their self-knowledge; they bring their info together so the client can choose what action is probably best for them.
Yeah, this one is rough for me because I know from firsthand experience that Ruth saying those words is basically the depression equivalent of screaming and begging for help…
I’d say “good times” but actually no, they were the absolute worst times, I hated them and hope my antidepressants stay working so I never ever have to go back.
Yeah, I don’t fuck with my antidepressants because I know they’re the things that got me out of the phase where I was just suicidally ideating literally all of my waking hours.
Just to clarify, I really sounds like Ruth is saying that she likes the idea of Carla finding her corpse and being permanently scarred by the experience. You have to admit that it is the sort of thing that she’d say!
It’s too bad there aren’t people to report this to so Carla can get Ruth help… some sort of advising program for the residents? I mean, even if Ruth were one of these advising people, she could get help from coworkers, or her boss, or even a phone number you could call if you think someone needs help, like from medical services, in an emergency.
Hi! You don’t seem to understand how Depression works. You should look into that before seeming like a gigantic jerk to people whom you may know in real life who suffer from this condition.
If I were Carla (and feeling slightly mean) I’d try a back and shoulders rub. Since Ruth lacks the pep to resist. Then I’d try getting some food into her — something light and easily digestible. (Milk and cookies maybe. What happened to the offered breakfast?) Then a walk outside for some sun and fresh air. Then she can crawl back into bed if she’s still feeling out of it.
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Billie better get on Cookie Clicker if she wants to afford Carla’s services now
There aren’t enough Grandmas in the world.
Dammit, you made me start a new Cookie Clicker!
Dude, don’t. No reward is worth it.
quick, ruin the fun!
I have never gotten far enough in cookie clicker to see all of the features you unlock with cheats. This is pretty cool.
and my gravatar change didnt work. does anyone know whether it is tied to email or name?
nvm. it worked.
No.. No!!! NNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! I THOUGHT I HAD GOTTEN AWAY FROM THIS!!! I THOUGHT I HAD SURVIVED THIS APOCALYPSE BUT YOU JUST STARTED A NEW ONE! Look at what you’ve DONE! Yoou mOnster…
The french evil strikes again.
At least it’s not “The french disease“.
You… COOKIE MONSTER!
WE SHALL RISE
whoops
we WILL rise
Orion Shall Rise!
Where am I going, and why?
What? Ruth is just thinking it would be nice to watch a horror movie. I know a good* Friday the 13th flick always cheers me up when I’m blue.
*Note that “good” as applied to F13 movies is not the same as “good” applied to movies as a whole. Proper viewing procedure is to watch at 2am in the summer or fall while mildly intoxicated. To the casual observer, good and bad F13 movies look much the same, so careful selection is important. For the record let be be known that the good ones are 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, and FvJ.
[backs away slowly]
could someone link that scobady do wap melody for when you need shuffle out in a hurry
Here ya go – https://youtu.be/lV7evRdBTxk
that’s good but, I was thinking the one where the guy is saying “scoby -a-do-wap-a-boop-a-do” I thik that’s how it goes
The one that goes bee boo boo bop?
Just kidding, your description honestly sounds like you’re talking about this, but I don’t see how it fits.
Yes, that one
Carla’s Moonwalking out of the room, and nothing you say will convince me otherwise.
Oh Christ someone call a therapist sooner than later.
Yeah. This hits home for me on a bunch of levels.
Yeah, it’s smack dab in the middle of a therapist’s pay grade.
Mine, someday!
It still surprises me a little, every time, how upset people get about nonlethal suicidal ideation. I mean, you should be upset, y’all are correct, this is upsetting to any reasonable person. Maybe I’m too used to it, or it just kicks my brain into another mode that is more focused and calm, I dunno.
I know, right? Yeah, she’s at the “gee I wish I were dead” stage but this is confirming she’s also in the “too much overwhelming drain to actually do anything about it” part too.
Which don’t get me wrong is a TERRIBLE state to be in, but I don’t think she’s actually a threat to herself at the moment because that would take more effort than she can have! Look on the bright side! *Terrifying “I’m fine” Ruth smile*
And, also, the fact that part of the road to a better state of mind involves the higher risk of harm due to the drain going away before the ideation goes away.
Actually! There’s a logical reason for that- they’ve reached the point where if you’re not careful, you can _fuck things up badly_. No one likes the risk of pushing things over the edge.
Therapists? Sir, have you been reading the same Dumbing of Age as I have?
I don’t even think they exist here. Unless it’s bigotry based.
it’s one to help you concentrate.
+1, my good Darkoneko. +1
Oh no, zombie Ruth.
Remove the alcohol or destroy the booze
Here I’m is, the zomby Ruth?
return of the living dead style
go on a riot carla, demand more pay 😛
Carla marches back and forth outside Ruth’s room holding signs that read “Billingsworth Unfair!” and “Amateur therapists demand living cookie wage!”, but alas, none of this helps improve Ruth’s mental state.
Turns out it won’t heal if you picket.
boooooooooooooooooooooooooo
so, ruths not really upset anymore, she was just up late playing pokemon go, right?
she lost an eevee
That’d be me if I lost an Eevee. They’re my favorite fucking Pokemon. D: CATCH ALL THE EEVEES. 😀
Oh my god
*shakes head*
Yeah, but good diagnostic procedure is key. That’s the value of being pro-testing.
https://67.media.tumblr.com/6f84eb119849bf16e61c9939ef95f497/tumblr_ntw999eSlt1r5rk9to1_500.gif
Wow, I think I need new glasses, I read that as “pro-wrestling”
…
which made me pause, yeah.
That pun was bad and you should feel bad.
As a Dad, I approve of that pun. Couldn’t have done better myself.
Second.
I laughed. Does that make me a bad person? I have trouble telling sometimes.
Probably, but you’re in fellow bad company.
Good to know. Also, I second what Peter said. Perhaps I’ll go and second it later.
Down with this sort of thing!
Abolish things that should be abolished.
Probably the healthiest comment on this thread.
Carla is the smartest of all the cast.
YES THANK YOU. THIS IS SO FAR BEYOND CARLA’S PAY GRADE IT ISN’T EVEN FUNNY.
GO TELL SOMEBODY CARLA, YOU’RE DONE HERE.
Seriously. And she understands that this isn’t something she has the tools to handle. So the real question is what’s her follow-up. Because she still cares and she still wants Ruth to end up okay but she also has a loathing of authority and a mistrust that it will serve the best interests of someone marginalized.
So, is she gonna suck up that feeling and let her bosses know even though that might actually hurt Ruth more? Is she gonna recruit Sal to help her out? Is she gonna surreptitiously call student health services to schedule Ruth an appointment?
I suspect she’s going to run to Billie.
…. after sitting around for an hour at a complete loss of what to do.
Makes sense. Past is precedent there. And Billie is the person who asked her to check up on Ruth and the person that Ruth said was her “one ray of happiness”. So yeah, that’s a good shout right there.
Maybe this is a job for Amazigirl. She needs something to take her mind off of Danny losing his faith in her with a few words from Sal.
And potentially a specific mistrust of therapists, at that. I mean admittedly as someone who is very much not trans I’m only going off secondhand knowledge so feel free to correct me, and I’m betting the Ruttens were at least able if they ran into any medical gatekeeping to go “we have money and we’re going to find someone who WON’T be a butthole,” but I’m under the impression medical and psychiatric officials can be seriously shitty to trans people, kids included?
Of course we’ve got no idea what Carla’s specific experiences were like, but while I think she’s more likely to call Student Health than say Joyce, she’s definitely below say Roz.
twoc fuck therapists if i could see my old therapist again id probably have to hold myself back from breaking her teeth. they dont care about us they want to /study/ us write about us build a career off us. i have no respect for therapists bc of this
trans women and girls are most vulnerable to this kind of treatment. weve been used for exoeriments for hundreds of years by doctors and therapists and scientists
Sympathy and fuck that therapist. Honestly fuck all those ‘ooh you’re such fascinating puzzles to be solved’ types in general. (Autistic, so non-identical but vaguely similar history wrt experimentation.)
autistics are the closest kind of ppl to a tw i find historically in terms of how doctors and scholars and sciebtists treat us
I knew of a trans person who needed a trans therapist because they were totally fine and well-adjusted with being trans, but also had depression, because sometimes people get depression. Cisgender therapists kept assuming that the person was depressed *because* they were trans, it took a trans therapist to believe that the two were unrelated, and to address just the depression!
Anyway, Her, I am sorry that you had super shitty medical folks. 🙁 I hope that the therapists/doctors/etc get themselves educated, and/or that you find other stuff that works a thousand times better for you.
While it’s possible/likely Carla has had shitty experiences with therapists, I feel fairly confident that she and her parents found her one that actually worked for her no matter how long it took, so presumably she trusts ONE. Even if said therapist specializes exclusively in transpersons, Carla could perhaps ask her therapist to recommend someone good for Ruth.
in my experience every therapist is shit especially ones who “specualize” in trans persons. im no ones wet dream ill break someones jaw and have them in a hospital if they make me feel like one
Can I give a counter precedent?o.o
I am trans, and I have the sweetest therapist(whom I go to for mostly unrelated reasons). I’d be far from the good place I am in without him, majorly since I have (apparently standalone) psychosis and he is the first doctor who could talk me through enough unsuccessful meds until we found the right one. He is the first doctor I ever had who knew how to TALK to people, period, really.
That’s the one major feat you need to look out for in a therapist: If they talk in excessive science speak and don’t show at least some empathy while you tell of your issues, it should be the first and the last time you visited them. No amount of medical knowledge, precedent memorized and goodwill will worth anything if they don’t have the social skills to give that to you in a digestible way.
Yeah, I know a lot of my trans siblings have had shitty experiences with the medical field, but there’s non-shitty doctors and therapists out there that are genuinely trans aware (and not in the creepy “I’ve been doing this for years including the years where therapists were gatekeepers for any type of medical treatment and thus tend to fetishize my trans patients” way).
Planned Parenthoods tend to be really good for that as well and areas like the Bay Area have resources that can help find decent therapists and support groups:
http://www.gaylesta.org/
But I can understand the frustration.
In comic, though, I tend to agree with Tan. She hasn’t stated the same therapy is bullshit line as Sal and her parents were probably more likely to speak up when a therapist was being dehumanizing. That being said, if she’s on hormones, thanks to the level of gatekeeping currently at play, she must have at least spoken a bit to a psychiatrist at the least in order to be “cleared as trans”. So she theoretically has some experience with the world of therapy and some form of opinion about it.
ok but trans people and trans women/girls are def treated very differently, and ive seen every therapist in my city they never last a full session bc they either interupt and tell me i cant be upset about that or they find another way to invalidate my feelings which arise from me being a twoc. ie. ppl video taping me taking pics of my whisperings and laughing from when i would take the bus being followed around stores by poor little cis women bc theres this “man” in the womens section of the clothing dept. etc. being told that those are things that i cant be hurt by will make me never say a word to whoever says that ever again
Possible, but depending on where Carla lives when not a student (and she’s a sophomore, so she doesn’t have to be in a dorm,) they might be well out of range. Especially since the family probably can go pretty far out of their way to find one who’s at least decent. (Maybe Carla got super lucked-out and found a therapist who is themselves trans?) When you’ve got a good one and can you go back to them rather than rolling the dice with another one for the school year.
In real life? She is competent, she has awesome parents, she knows they’re supportive – she goes to them.
In this comic? Probably she goes to Billie.
Meh. I have awesome parents who support me. But they know nothing about how to deal with suicidal ideation (source: they didn’t know how to deal with mine. Parents aren’t always the ideal source of support or knowledge.
Which is why she’ll end up President instead of Dorothy.
Adding Ultra-Car to Mount Rushmore was her first act.
Now that’s a campaign promise I can get behind.
Giving it and the rest of the faces animatronics will be her second.
A giant pie on the end of a mechanical arm splats into Thomas Jefferson’s face over and over again.
Of the four (five), Jefferson probably deserves it most.
Yes, that was my thinking, too.
Also a giant animatronic doob installed between George Washington’s lips periodically puffs clouds of smoke.
At the end of her State of The Union speeches, she sticks up both middle fingers, and there are fireworks.
THANK YOU
Billie’s gonna have to make an alternate universe made entirely of cookies for that.
Carla needs to tell Billie. I’m getting worried about Ruth.
Getting?
Not even for wookie cookies.
(They’re basically snickerdoodles with choclate chips)
Those are a thing?
*looks at the hacked Muzak’s controls and can’t decide on Arcadia or Alice Cooper*
Cooper.
You Asked For It!
And For Dessert…
^- Honestly, could you imagine ELVIS PRESLEY singing THAT? It could have happened!
No weirder than Cash covering Nine Inch Nails.
I’m actually watching an Alice Cooper concert on Vh1 Classic while reading this!
Weekend at Bernie’s!
Even while dead Bernie still gets some action.
He lets’ the lady do what she wants, doesn’t demand anything of her.
HE’S DEAD SEXY!
….
… no wait that’s fat bastard.
It costs more than a penny to make a penny. It also costs more than a penny to make a cookie. Choose your payment method.
But!
Does it cost more than a cookie to make a cookie? Because we could just use cookies to buy/make more cookies.
Depends on the cookie. Sourdough specialist and lover of all things from the kitchen (puts on glasses that have no lenses, because they is more smarter that way).
A good gingersnap, or even better, a snickerdoodle fresh from the oven is worth at LEAST 2.5 butter cookies.
Now we’re getting into conversion rates, quality of ingredients, mass market vs local shop. Gonna need a gods damned degree Couverture-Economics to get it done right.
At the end of the day, the fact that they are a non-durable, easily-produced good makes most economists agree that cookies are a terrible form of currency. In light of an alarming spike of people making this proposal, for the good of economies everywhere the economists must confiscate the cookies.
Time to invest in Dairy Futures?
Yes. Milk the trend for all it’s worth.
Sorry. That pun was cheesy.
Seemed gouda to me.
by the by, Heath Ledger Joker was rather menacing, and creepy, but Pennywise wins the scary clown competition going on in your gravitar.
Thanks. It’s actually a meme I made. The text reads “Clown’s to the left of me. Joker’s to the right.
Not the best place to be stuck.”
That’s why Canada got rid of the penny. It cost more to make than it was worth.
As for cookies, they’re easy to make. These ones you could make even if all you had was access to a hotplate. They’re really tasty as well.
http://www.food.com/recipe/no-bake-chocolate-oatmeal-cookies-23821
Carla today is yesterday’s comment section with that “dead this whole time” comment.
But like…. I dunno maybe it’s just me, but what kind of ‘not okay’ did Carla think Ruth was if it wasn’t ‘suicidal’?
Not all severe depression causes suicidal tendencies.
All I can think is:
a) She thought she was just generally bummed out because of the breakup and blackmail, but that wasn’t as bad as a full depression.
b) She thought Ruth was just being creepy Ruth and so even if it was setting off her alarm bells, she said she was fine and so it’s just Ruth being creepy and weird and emo.
c) Carla has been in that sort of funk before and didn’t actually recognize it as depression and so just chalked it up to one of those funks that eventually get resolved (with massive family love and being able to transition).
d) She was massively skeeved out and had no idea what Billie was hinting at with regards to Ruth not being dead and checking up on her and figured it was just dramatic kids being dramatic and Ruth wasn’t dead and creepy smiled, so yay, any excuse to nope right out of the serial killer room.
I dunno, are there any possibilities I’m missing here?
e) She kinda did understand what was happening, but only in an intellectual sense. Like book learning, except not even book learning because she hasn’t really studied the subject. As usual, dealing with the reality face-to-face is another beast entirely.
Ooh, that’s a good shout. Yeah, I can totally see that one.
Yeah, “oh yes you are depressed” is different from actually seeing a very depressed, very murder-cave-y, terrifyingly numbed out person and it can take a bit to figure out what to actually do with your terrifyingly numbed out person.
She wasn’t dead the whole time… NO! Because it was really me, DIO BRANDO!!!!!!! (Insert muscle flex pose that wouldn’t be out of place… If this were a leather beefcake advertisement.)
Comic Reactions:
Oh, man, can’t leave the bed, thinking death is nice. The only plus side of that is that she’s too catatonic to be a likely immediate risk to herself, but it’s probably worth it to remove all the sharp objects and pills from the room just in case. Ruth needs anti-depressants in the worst way, but probably fears (possibly rightfully) that she’ll lose her position and the small freedom it buys if she seeks out mental health services.
Also, Carla, you’re trying. That matters a lot and good on you for recognizing a situation far outside your ability to help. Now, the real question is who do you go to next for backup?
Huh, that was meant as a new comment rather than a reply. Sorry about that.
Short, sweet and simple. Good to see you back in the comment section. And yes to all of that. Plus she needs someone keeping an eye on her, cause you can OD on antidepressants.
Or they can get you just out of the catatonic funk enough to be able to act on those thoughts, before it gets you through to “not suicidally depressed”. Yeah, once she’s on them (and she very very much needs them like three weeks ago) there should definitely be someone on watch.
Yeah, that ‘gray area’ is not a fun spot to be in.
Someone pointed to the convo Ruth and Carla had yesterday. Ruth did tell Carla that she was going through withdrawal/detox, which would have seemed like a good explanation for why she was clearly in bad shape.
Ah, that makes sense.
Carla going “you look a bit awful and murder cavey, but you’re saying you’re in withdrawal which will put you a bit under the weather and you’ve been through a bad breakup and so would look a bit down and out. So, yeah, your sluggishness and generally being down makes sense. But hey, you sat up and you said you were fine at early o’ clock, so I’m gonna chalk it up to all of that and you being weird, because what else could it be?
You gotta be a little tougher than that Carla! Engage!
speaking from experience she is UNDEREQUIPPED
I’ve been on both sides of this conversation, and I’m still at a loss. What do you do? Just keep listening, and offer whatever form of comfort seems best? Are reassurances good, or are they hollow, meaningless platitudes that fall flat? Try to help make a plan to help the general situation, or is that simply an added burden? It’s easier, in some ways, when it’s someone you know, and you can assure them that you care, that their life has meaning to you, that you want them to be okay on a personal level, but what do you say when it’s a relative stranger -when you both know that that’s not really going to help? Do you remind them of responsibilities, or does that just increase the feeling of worthlessness and obligations that weigh too heavily? How the heck does anyone deal with this? (Trained or not.)
I try and settle for “okay, let’s get you eating, let’s get you awake, anything else is probably a stretch but it probably is a good idea to get you Out Somewhere if we can” myself, but that’s with someone in my immediate family who I know very well but am nonetheless not the sole support person there. (If there’s an upside to depression running in the family, it’s that after a certain point everyone’s like “Oh yeah, we know exactly that feeling” and are sympathetic in a “been there, done that, let’s work on getting you to a point where you at least have some more spoons to work with before we try anything complicated” sort of way.)
Can confirm on all of that.
It’s also good to gauge how many spoons they have. Some days might be a getting up, getting a few things done day. Others might be catatonic in the room and unresponsive to questions so make sure there’s nothing they can hurt themselves with nearby and they have some food and some periodic boops of “hey, we care about you” and open offers for specific tasks.
Disclaimer: I am in no way, shape or form a trained professional, I just read a lot of stuff.
There are not a lot of things you can do right, but there are a lot of things you can do wrong.
Generally speaking when talking to a depressed person:
1. Validate their feelings and take them seriously. Don’t go “why’d you say that? You have a perfect life and so much to live for” or “just smile”. Let them explain their feelings and say things like “I can see why you feel that”.
2. Your most immediate goal should be to find out if this is a situation where the person is an immediate threat to themselves. To find this out, you can usually straight up ask if they are seriously considering suicide. If they say yes, ask if they have a plan (“If you really were to take your life, how’d you do it”). If they answer yes and and have a realistic plan and have the means to carry out the plan, notify the emergency services responsible for that person’s place of residence.
If notifying 911 is not an option (because in these days, you may very well run into a stranger or friend on the Internet who you don’t know the real name or address of), attempt to reach out to someone at their place of residence or social circle who might be in a position to notify 911. If all else fails (or in parallel), notify the admins of the platform where you are talking. They may have means to find out more information about the person.
3. Don’t make this about yourself. Don’t say “You scare me” or “Stop saying this” or “How am I supposed to deal with that”. This is about them and their needs, not yours. I guarantee that unless this talk triggers you, the other person is worse off than you right now.
4. When the person starts cutting ties with everyone and finishing unfinished business, so to speak, that’s a red flag. Acutely suicidal people who made the decision already tend to get this “oh, I will be fine in a few days” thing and make a scarely happy/relieved impression.
5. If you have a depressed person around you, or you are someone who somehow tends to attract such people to themselves, it might help you to practise correct behaviour in case of suicidal ideations in front of a mirror or with a friend. Then if the day comes, you won’t be so overwhelmed by the real stuff.
6. Wikihow has several resources on how to deal with depressed people, suicidal people and suicidal relatives. As far as I could see, they give good advice.
no if she pushes she lnows that shell get fucked up herself this is perfectly fine she knows *nothing* about depression
Yeah, this is waaaaay beyond what she can do and she knows that. Ruth’s not an immediate threat to herself right now, time to nope out and seek backup.
Carla literally the smartest member in this cast not surprising really tw tend to be the smartest in any given situation
I didnt sign up for this! I require TWICE the cookies!
http://imgur.com/a/cH13t
made some fan art
booty booty booty
You rang?
These seems vaguely reminiscent of the poses from that one character in Overwatch (never played, I just read about it in some articles)…
Maple leafs suck, yet it’s still virtually impossible to get tickets to one of their games.
Ugh.
Someone take them away.
… why would you want tickets?
That’s what I keep wondering. AND YET.
I’m sure it’s a mystery, but as someone who is within easy biking distance to Wrigley Field (home of the Chicago Cubs, for you non-North Americans), I’m hardly one to claim it’s a unique mystery.
Blimey. Sixth highest attendance record for 15/16
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance
Just what is the secret in their sauce? Are Torontonians masochistic?
Yes.
I’d be depressed too if I was a Leafs fan!
Take remaining cookies, and run. RUN!
I mean really, if breaking up with Billie was all so she wouldn’t lose her job, Ruth might as well have not even bothered, since she’s going to lose her job anyway since she’s apparently never going to leave her room again.
Just think how much more Ruth can terrorize the hall as some unstoppable undead menace with supernatural powers! She’s thinking it and thinks it’s awesome!
… no? That’s not what she’s thinking?
Dammit that’s what EVERYONE should be thinking ALL THE TIME.
No, it’s better to be a necromancer who commands an undead army. You just chill while your minions do the work.
No, you need to supervise, and you have no ability to delegate command.
… unless you do in which case super-dangerous.
Split the difference and aim for litch status, then you can be an undead necromancer.
Well, yes, it probably is beyond your pay grade. You aren’t getting paid. That pretty much means the only thing within the spectrum of your pay grade is taking a nap.
Well that, and being awesome.
I once broke up an LTR and shut myself in my room for two days, not even coming out to eat. My housemates called my family.
I had to explain to them that the food poisoning I had prevented me from wanting to complain to the world at large about how much my ex had stolen from my wallet, and how many times.
Oh dear. Go. Go forth and bring help. One of the greater wisdoms is knowing when you don’t know enough to be able to help on your own.
Yeah you’re uh, doing a good job there of cheering her up Carla, I don’t know if you’re most deserving or less deserving of a award the best effort because this is probably like moving mountains.
She tried her best with her own brand of humor/helping, but stepping out now is probably a good move on her part. While not the first choice someone else might make, she’s not wrong. She is not equipped with the right words to say to that, nor does she know what Ruth needs.
Well she already used her whipped cream pie on Mary, so she’s out of ideas now.
Both of these are points well made so fair enough.
I’m helping! Yeah!
cool so im suicidal cheer me up. now. its not that fucking easy. your fantasy wet dream of what carla should be like is bs.
You work with the tools you have, and Carla is unfortunately under equipped to deal with depression of this sort. I’m sorry my glibness over the caricature of what Carla once was, in another universe, has upset you. It was not my intent.
tgat was a response to op critisizm is cool. critisicm w/o thought isnt and is usually unfair
Sarah needs to get involved as shes shown in the past to have the guts to go to an authority figure to save someone even at her own expense
Nah, this time it doesn’t affect her grades so she wouldn’t care.
Don’t underestimate her empathy.
She won’t want to care, because caring about people hurts, but she’s cynical enough to accept that she can’t always get what she wants.
I agree with this -I feel like Sarah’s capable of empathy; she just doesn’t want to be, because people have hurt her and trying to help others has gotten her badly hurt in the past. Also want to add that having a catatonic and suicidal RA could potentially hurt her grades as it means that trash is piling up, disputes aren’t being resolved, and rules aren’t getting enforced.
sarah and carla are the most relatable characters for me: im a twoc and every time i got close to someone i got hurt. bad. im angry and antagonizing and to protect myself im very hostile. i care deeply for about 5 ppl. i get really angry when i see ppl attack the bc those are character traits that exist very strongly in me and it feels personal bc of it
“twoc” = “taken without owner’s consent” ??
I’m guessing that you want ‘twoc’ to mean “trans woman of color” but the Internet seems to have other ideas.
(sometimes I can figure this stuff out…)
trans women of colour… im a taken without consent is not a sentence that makes sense
she prob would actually. letting becky stay and looking out for dina bc she knows that their relationship will probably end up with dina being really hurt doesnt get her higher grades and she doesnt really know dina too well theyre not friends yet shes not the heartless butch shes painted out to be shes just not a joyce-esque optimist shes had plebty of shit happen and she wants to be someone
Yeah, she cares and she tries to do right. She just doesn’t always know what that right thing is and she’s got a lot of scars from the last time she got really entangled in someone’s life and so is very hesitant to get that deep again because she assumes that that is the road to pain.
Actually… That might just be a decent plan. It would utterly fuck Ruth over, but it might also save her life depending on how her depression is going.
…what happens to Ruth if she goes home? What do we know about her uncle? Her brother seems to like living with him well enough, but she absolutely loathed everything about the situation?
Oh, probably an attempt at the least. She nearly drank herself into a coma last time she had a talk with the “sir” on the other end of her phone.
On the other hand, Sarah’s tendency to go to authority is “call parents” and I am definitely suspecting very very bad things with Sir. Though Joyce’s “please don’t they’ll pull me out” means if Ruth reacts really badly to that like I think she might, Sarah would probably go “Okay, but we NEED to take serious action right now over this even if it’s not calling your parents.”
… Actually, what if Sarah ends up as acting RA?
Now there’s an idea. Though I assume the Becky living situation needs to be cleared up before Sarah acts as a covert RA. Or is that plotline too Walkyverse Hijinks?
I mean I’m not sure how longer we can practically have Amazi-Girl as our resident Occasional Segue Into Superheroics and Action before she hits the breaking point, and Sarah has been shown as willing to go Old Testament God when really needed. And, well… SOMEONE needs to be keeping an eye on the dorm while others keep an eye on Ruth.
Billie has already been acting as the RA actually
That actually sounds like a good reason to not make her do that again.
RD!!! Now is the time for the RD!!!! You’re a smart cookie, Carla, get the RD!!!!! (or whoever is on desk downstairs, they’ll know what to do)
the cookies need their own tag
I like your priorities.
I for one would like to see a Weekend at Bernie’s plot with Carla, Billie and Ruth because that just how I roll.
It’s funny until you think of the off screen sex scene implication.
Necrophilia: Fresh is Best!
I’ve been on both sides of this and it’s a total suckstorm no matter which you’re doing.
Every time I’ve tried to help the depressed person has gotten pissed off at me for being worried enough to ask for help on their behalf. I’ve lost two friends for doing something, but they’re still alive, so it’s still a win. Even though it didn’t feel much like one.
One friend was so hard to read we never really understood how depressed he was until he walked into his room after having an argument with his roommate and shot himself. No note, no wallowing, just closed the door and bang.
It’s like, how do you even know what to do half the time?
It can be difficult and there’s a lot of just being there, following leads, doing preventative stuff…
But it can be really thankless because the depressed person often is low on spoons and beating themselves up for needing help if they’re responsive at all. At this point, with the sheer volume of people in my life who’ve been depressed, I’ve gotten relatively good at the whole supporting a depressed person, but that’s not an easy thing to do and Carla in no way signed up for this or has the experience to handle it with any manner of tact or aplomb.
She’s still gonna try, because that’s who she is, but this is definitely jumping right in at the deep end of the pool and trying to learn to swim on the fly.
Also *hugs*, so many *hugs*, especially for that third paragraph.
Cerberus, I just wanted to say to your second paragraph there — thanks for acknowledging just how hard it can be, as a depressed person, to accept help, even when it’s offered freely and with loving friendship. That’s a difficulty seldom recognized, and not knowing that it will feel difficult makes it all the harder to not snarl at the person giving help you wish you didn’t need, which of course (especially in the DoA years) can make it hard for a person to continue trying to help, or even wanting to be friends.
Well I gasped at the third paragraph.
Plus when you’re dealing with your own shit, trying to help someone with depression is harder. Comparison can crop up, and then resentment over it.
Is there an alternate to spoons? That reference always struck me as being odd, or perhaps more out of place. So long as you have at least one spoon, you’re good.
It’s because the theory was thought up on the fly at a restaurant, and the author stole all the spoons from nearby table instead of forks or knives.
tables*, aaaaagh.
Is there a comment system that allows the creation of trigger warnings or at least spoiler tags (which would hide text) for WordPress? This site could really use that.
It’s the <abbr> tag. the text you want hidden goes into the ‘title’ property. You also need to close out the tag as well, with a </abbr> tag.
Example of end product: Hopefully I remembered my HTML force characters correctly. If not, it’s the angled brackets, normally in the bottom right of keyboards.
Nope. Perhaps < abbr > and < /abbr >
You know, I worked this out about a week ago too, and I’ve already forgotten how to do the forced characters. Again.
HTML entities, which is what you are using, end with a semicolon.
< won’t work. < (<) will.
Oh, and I used & to get &
That’s what I was missing, the semicolon. The almost, not-quite, colon.
JT: Very good question. There’s not really a Right Way to deal with depression, unfortunately. There are a bunch of wrong ways (like telling them to just snap out of it), but each person’s experience is different, and depression is a legitimately difficult problem. I can’t give a one-size answer.
I suppose the best case scenario, you can get them resources (like the number of a psychiatrist and therapist) and kindly hold their hand while they choose to access the resources. Hopefully they do it.
But, aside from that, there is no secret, you can’t really know what to do. Depression is vicious, and confusing, and it wasn’t your fault.
One of two things will happen.
Carla will report this to the proper authorities like a smart person. “Hey listen, my RA is maybe suicidal and hasn’t left her room in like, days? Maybe get on that.”
OR she will not do that and I will continue to seethe with fury.
The problem is that she’s got an earned mistrust of authority and its ability to help, which is why she didn’t go to them when the Mary situation kicked off. So she probably associates authority and the telling there of in crisis points as just an invitation for things to get so much worse.
And that’s a shame because Ruth does need to seek out mental health care yesterday, but I don’t see Carla being the one to make that call.
Unfortunately this will probably just lead to Carla getting Billie, which in the long run I can see being even WORSE than getting no help at all.
She’s the one with experience. So I could see why Carla would do that and yeah, it’s definitely gonna be messy no matter what if she does.
I’m wondering if making that call (I’d like to think she’ll nag Billie into it) will shift Ruth’s apparent situation from miserable-from-illicit-breakup to mental-health-issue, which could disarm Mary nicely.
(especially if her accusations against Ruth and Billie are perceived as harassment against someone who’s vulnerable, which, that could be a big-time own goal.)
Oooh, looking it up? There may be the perfect option here if Carla’s savvy to it. Granted, they’re not for emergency services which is the point Ruth needs, but it’d be a hell of a lot better than a random untrained person and they’d probably be able to steer her towards “no, you need help, YESTERDAY”.
(Actually looking it up I’m super-impressed by IU’s Health Services, at least going from the website.)
… its been one day try learning about how things tome out in comic world: this morning carla brought her breakfast talked to her made sure she was alive. went to her room. got in an argument with walky. chased dorothy. heard something about mental illness a subject she knows nothing about. and checked in on her. now shes going to get her some real help honestly i really hate you and your low key transmisogynistic ass sorry trans women arent fucking perfect honestly if i were carla id’ve told billie off. shes not my friend and her ex aint my responsibility engineering is a hard as course and i need to study i have my own life i absolutely hate people who look at carla whos done so fucking much more than necissary ad get mad at her screw you screw everyone angry at carla shes done more than enough imo. tbh idrc when non tw die bc none of you care when we die. proof: how many tw died this year? suicides included. no one fucking knows bc no one gives a damn about us other than us
Okay, seriously, you need to calm down. I understand things are seriously unfairly rough for trans women. I experience this on a regular basis through my trans friends, and they’ve been particularly bad lately. But just because someone criticizes an action (or lack thereof) of a trans person doesn’t make them transmisogynistic. Yes, she’s not perfect, and she’s allowed to not be perfect. And not everybody likes everybody. But Sageress is allowed to not like /a/ trans person without being accused of hating /all/ trans people.
….I am confused as to how this storyline is transmisogynistic since Carla is portrayed as a very decent person, albeit one that is not sure how to deal with depression?
Nobody (not even Billie) said it’s her job or responsibility to check on Ruth, she’d doing this out of the reluctant goodness of her heart.
She isn’t saying the storyline is transmisogynistic, she’s saying Sageress’s criticism of Carla is. (which I think is a strong overreaction, unless I missed a post somewhere else where Sageress said something more damning.)
I don’t remember that, but I haven’t read every comment on the site.
basically any time carla does anything sageress is like: “fuck carla for not being perfect and being a dynamic character” its just like… shes very adamant about hating /the only/ known trans woman in this cast and its just a touch telling
You forgot Jocelyne, Joyce’s sister.
yeah thats why i put “/the only/” like i did i very much doubt well see joyce’s sister ever again
I’d be absolutely shocked if we didn’t. Though it might be awhile, give how slowly time moves in this story. A few weeks will take years.
I fully expect we’ll see her parents find out about her. Too much set up to let that drama go.
Carla has gone above and beyond the call of duty here. She has no attachment to Ruth, and that sort of stuff can be incredibly draining and terrifying to deal with. Don’t mind at all if she has to bow out at this point due to being beyond her comfort zone
LITERALLY
nope.exe
So. Yesterday it was Ruth, and today it’s Billie. I still think you’re trying to tell me something, Grav Roulette. I just have no idea what.
I have a hard time relating to Billie. She has delusions of popularity and I have delusions of persecution. She persecutes nerds and I am one. (Or am I a geek? I don’t know the difference any more.) She’s full of dangerous self confidence that makes her overextend, and I’m full of self-doubt that keeps me under-extended. She’s an extrovert, I’m an introvert. So very much my opposite.
But there is an overlap. We both see ourselves as problem-solvers and helpers… even when we don’t entirely earn the title. We both have a half-earned conceit of being knowledgeable dispensers of wisdom and advice. We both stand up against injustice where we perceive it, and we have a stubborn streak a mile long. If I had to choose a DofA character to walk through Hell with me, I’d choose…. well, Mary or Ryan or Toedad or Dickdad, because why would I want to inflict Hell on anyone else? But if I wanted someone to back me up in a tight situation that required determination and fire more than skill or knowledge, it would be Billie.
I…. COULD relate to her in those specific ways. But she’s still a bad fit for me in so many other ways.
It’s an interesting thought, but no. I’m going to stick with my idea of Jason/Gav. But at least you made me think about it, Grav Roulette.
Maybe tomorrow you’ll manage to communicate whatever you’re trying to tell me.
Probably just be Faz to mess with you even more.
It’s decided to be whoever’s Relevant today! (In this case, Billie’s here in spirit as the one person who might have any idea how to get Ruth on something resembling functional enough to leave bed.)
Sometimes your problems need a scalpel, sometimes they need a HEAD CHEERLEADER ALPHA BOOOOOONGO!!!
“Head Cheerleader Alpha Bongo!” sounds like a badly translated anime title.
+1 Internet
I can actually say i know how ruth feels in this.
same i dhould probably talk to someone but hey who gives a flying fuck about twoc right?! last time i tried talking to someone i just felt worse
Shitty medical officials are the absolute worst, especially since there are so. so. so many of them. And they’re the ones who are supposed to make people feel better.
never met a doctor who i trusted i use one to get my prescriptions and he knows not to fuck w/ me too i drive a motorcycle from india that i just bought from my job engine is 3x more powerful than any piece of crap ducatti abd it wont break after you start the engine
its very similar to this https://goo.gl/images/e8pkz8
Spiffy and doing nothing to dispel my image of you as literal Sal.
And yeah, half the time the best I hope for is ‘will give me refills on prescription and not actively make me cry for fortyfive minutes in their office’. Anything better than that’s a bonus.
i keep my sentences short and simple with them. im a trans woman. known for a damn long time. i want to “transition”. yes. no. goodbye. im very similar to sal surfacely closer to joyce with ppl i like. not many of those though. im too tired for bullshit from ppl
while i may not know how to help i am usually willing to listen to people if you ever need to talk.
Hi, I’m a stranger on the internet. I dunno if it helps at all, but I care about you. 100% genuinely.
Do you live in a city? You probably already know this, but just in case, there are online lists of health places that trans folks have rated as better for trans folks. I hope you get better access to medical people who don’t suck so damn much.
I bet that motorcycle comes with a lot of medical knowledge.
You tell that doctor what’s what.
Her isn’t an expert on medicine, but she’s the world’s premiere expert on herself! In a proper therapeutic relationship, the doc brings the medical knowledge, the client brings their self-knowledge; they bring their info together so the client can choose what action is probably best for them.
Yeah, this one is rough for me because I know from firsthand experience that Ruth saying those words is basically the depression equivalent of screaming and begging for help…
Carla is suspicious of her role in the movie of her life.
Come on, SOMEONE around here has to have some idea about how to handle this kind of situation. Like training or something.
…. oh, wait, I know! There ARE people who get training for this! QUICK! RUN AND GET THE RA!
Cloning makes everything better!
Understand the joke, but yeah … there’s certainly more than one RA in that building.
Mm mm mmmm, good ol “I’d like to not be alive now,” apathy style depression. That’s some nostalgia.
I’d say “good times” but actually no, they were the absolute worst times, I hated them and hope my antidepressants stay working so I never ever have to go back.
It was fortunately, near as I can tell, a temporary thing for me. Haven’t felt like that in over a decade 😛
That is very good indeed. 😀
+1, another person with helpful meds here. Yay science.
Yes, meds can be wonderful. Just sticking another +1 out there.
Even if they just mean feeling lousy a lot of the time instead of incredibly horrible all of the time.
Yeah, I don’t fuck with my antidepressants because I know they’re the things that got me out of the phase where I was just suicidally ideating literally all of my waking hours.
Way easier to think without that shit going on.
Totally! It’s so much better when we become able to spend all that mental energy on literally anything else. <3
Okay, panel 4 confirms that it is Ruth lying there and not either a mannequin or an alien pod person! 😀
Just to clarify, I really sounds like Ruth is saying that she likes the idea of Carla finding her corpse and being permanently scarred by the experience. You have to admit that it is the sort of thing that she’d say!
IMO, no. Ruth is not thinking of anything outside how she feels, which is that (she believes) it would be better to be dead, and feel nothing.
I think it’s more ‘Being dead sounds good right now’, than ‘You finding a dead body sounds good right now’.
🙁 :(:(:(
ruth is what we call relatable
Too damn relatable.
too relatable
ah nuts. I should refresh before I comment.
Nah, just driving the point home, really.
Third relatable.
It’s too bad there aren’t people to report this to so Carla can get Ruth help… some sort of advising program for the residents? I mean, even if Ruth were one of these advising people, she could get help from coworkers, or her boss, or even a phone number you could call if you think someone needs help, like from medical services, in an emergency.
ruth is me, except everyday, ad nauseam
this and the homophobia at work are the most exhausting parts of today
Been there where Ruth is now 🙁 Except I live alone so nobody came to check on me.
Well, at least she’s alive.
That IS good news.
I don’t know how to feel about the fact that I only relate to Ruth when she’s in the throes of a suicidal depression.
I know the Muzak happened but clearly, “Fuck This Shit, I’m Out” is what’s playing in the last panel: https://youtu.be/5FjWe31S_0g
No wonder she’s miserable. She’s a Leafs fan.
And there is no more Leafs scoring 🙁
i can relate to ruth
like alot right now
*hugs* Just know we all have your back and think you’re awesome.
Hi! You don’t seem to understand how Depression works. You should look into that before seeming like a gigantic jerk to people whom you may know in real life who suffer from this condition.
::hugs::
Well I did reply to someone. It is gone now.
That happens. Sounds like it was for the best!
(Willis moderates the comments, which is why it isn’t full of jackasses.)
ZOMBIES NOPE I’M OUT
Damnit, there goes the 200 i bet on her bein dead.
If I were Carla (and feeling slightly mean) I’d try a back and shoulders rub. Since Ruth lacks the pep to resist. Then I’d try getting some food into her — something light and easily digestible. (Milk and cookies maybe. What happened to the offered breakfast?) Then a walk outside for some sun and fresh air. Then she can crawl back into bed if she’s still feeling out of it.
did I laugh because of the comedic timing or because of the relatability?
🙁