I was trying to make a joke on the fact that Ana called the ring fingers “flipping the Burr” and “talk less, smile more” was Burr’s intentionally skeevy catchphrase in “Hamilton.”
Not really. This advice would be gross if casually directed at a random woman because she is a woman. This is specifically being directed at Sarah because she is being an unhappy misanthrope who just bluescreened her supposed friend just to maintain her incorrect view that everyone in the world is a piece of cr*p like she secretly believes herself to be.
I fail to see how talking even less and forcing a smile would address those issues. If anything, she needs to talk more, specifically about how she actually feels.
In this case, though she needs to be talking to a therapist not unloading on her friend who has been running interference for her best friend all weekend.
A friend and I were just discussing how nearly everyone in the Hundred Acre Wood seems to personify a mental illness or disorder, but that also everyone still loves them. (Eeyore: depression. Tigger: Mania, or possibly AD/HD. Rabbit, OCD. Piglet, generalized anxiety. Pooh: binge eating. Kanga and Roo seem normative, and Christopher Robin is either schizophrenic or terminally boring.)
IN UK it is the two-fingered peace sign, but backwards. In our USAF briefing, they advised us to make sure it is facing the right direction “when ordering two beers, etc”.
Sounds like a sound briefing. Did you learn any other good tips? We normally don’t say “thank you, driver.” when getting off of a bus because the driver part seems uncomfortable, but most people do say “cheers” or “thanks”. (Unless they’re ingrates I guess) 😀
I can’t help but compare her to Davan from Something Positive. Both of them have a bit of a glass half empty view of the world and like to rain on everyone’s parade.
1AM rant time: I hate the way we say someone ‘loses’ their virginity. I suppose it’s probably accurate more often than I’d like to believe, but ideally – and, it’s to be hoped, a vast majority of the time – ‘giving up’ one’s virginity is more the case than losing it. We live in an age where education lets a lot of people make informed decisions on how to treat their bodies, so it’s something that seems like it should be at least on some level knowingly set aside, not misplaced or stolen.
Seriously? Virginity isn’t hetero-anything. It just means that you haven’t had sex yet, there’s no mention of what gender either member of the act is. It’s also not meaningless, though I don’t hold to the idea that the loss of virginity somehow makes anyone soiled or lesser, virgins do not have sexual experience and it is worth KNOWING that to ensure that you pay extra attention to helping and guiding around the weird, awkward, and sometimes painful situations that arise the first few times.
I’d really love it if the internet at large could come away from trying to tear everything down and just focus on actually damaging things.
It’s a bit heteronormative in that one widespread traditional formulation of the concept regarding heterosexual relations, as excludes non-PIV sex as “counting” as having sex, has no direct analogue for any other combination of genders.
It kinda is though. Think about a lesbian couple. How do they lose their virginity? in a world where there is a line between virgin and not, how does a lesbian ever lose her virginity?
It depends on how you define “virgin”. Even ignoring its original definition (which most people do, since we use it when referring to men), the line is much clearer for heterosexuals. A universally applicable (and in my opinion, obvious) definition would be “someone who has never engaged in any kind of sex with another person”
But a lot of people only want to use the traditional definition and only count it as sex if there’s peen-in-vageen happening, because they want to be able to have other kinds of sex and still call themselves chaste, as if that’s fooling anyone. This definition is even more hetero-normative than the original, because you can only lose your virginity through heterosexual sex.
People who place value on the pretense of not having any fun with their genitals tend to cling to the more traditional definition, while I think people with actual sense are moving towards the more generic definition.
Speaking seriously… Have you ever seen the James Garner film Support Your Local Gunfighter? At the end, Jack Elam gives a hilarious monologue about what happens to the characters after the end of the film. I’d like for the last chapter of DoA to be an epilogue with someone… maybe Mike… to give just such a “Now how this story ends is like this…” for all the characters.
Well duh, Graduation Day is the storyline where they tell you Slobo is dying, plus kill off a buch of Titans and members of Young Justice. Everybody swears when they read that.
DC started to lose me when I first read a Superman story, but honestly, that’s just because Superman is pretty much everything I’m not looking for in a story, so… it’s really a wonder I ever got attached to some of the other characters.
Once upon a time… The Red Skull got ahold of the Crimson Colander long enough to give Captain America his own appearance. So Cap spent the next 6 or so issues running from his buddies going, “Hey! It’s me! Really! Oww!!” When he finally got a breathing space, he thought, “How could the Red Skull have done that? It’s not possible. So it didn’t happen.”
Then he reached up and pulled the mask off…
And Marvel…
When Professor Xavier died: “Yes, kids, he’s really dead. And no, he’s not coming back.”
Riiight.
She’s looked up weiners (for artistic reference, you understand), and Ethan accidentally informed her that dude smut exists.
If she doesn’t know yet, it’s only a matter of time. Here’s hoping her parents aren’t monitoring her phone’s browser activity.
I assume Joyce knows about the erase history function. Becky seems savvy enough to know it and use it on Joyce’s phone. This is assuming the university does not block porn sites for security reasons.
Becky seems hungrier for all of the outside world, I suspect she was at a younger age. She seems like the kid who would ask inconvenient questions to the teacher. I can see her stashing away allowance money and hiding parts of her life (not just sexuality). Learning how to erase your internet history is one way to do it. In a homeschool group it would be so much harder to do so.
Although It would make more sense that her computer access was limited and there were child safe settings on her ISP. (As a queer kid from a conservative small town open internet access and getting information was vital. Friends helped each other).
It also occurs to me that Becky’s mom was likely slightly less fundie than her dad. Nothing to base that on other than a hunch.
Sarah’s always a huge dick. There’s being a pessimist and then there’s being a pessimist to the point where it’s exhausting to be friends with her, and Sarah’s been the latter for almost the entire strip.
No. Sarah has not been a dick the whole strip. Even being extremely pessimistic does not make you a dick.
She’s being a dick by deliberately trying to make Joyce unhappy. She’s deliberately treating her poorly. It’s at the same level as when Joyce asked if she was going to rat out Becky like she did Dana.
I mean, at least Sarah’s expression shows that she immediately realizes she crossed a line, but damn… that was so far over the line she’s now in the next fucking state. Just can’t stand to be wrong, so you’ve got to go the extra mile and make Joyce unhappy yourself, huh, Sarah?
It’s kind of a weird angst/anger at the world thing. “I’m sad and miserable; why isn’t everyone else sad and miserable? Well I’ll shame them into being sad and miserable!”
It is one of those things that some, but not all people can do. And certainly even fewer, it seems, can do it on both hands. Making it double impressive that Joyce can.
Speaking of things everyone cannot do: Most women can sit down and double-cross their legs (First thigh over second thigh, then first ankle behind second ankle) while most men cannot. I am a man that can do this.
I’ve actually won a few bets on doing this (only for a non-alcoholic beverage, and if they had refused, I wouldn’t have pushed it, since I knew I would win and it therefore was less of a bet and more of a trick).
It is a flexibility thing. I am a woman who cannot do it. I also can’t do most yoga poses or even properly sit cross-legged (so-called “Indian-style”) anymore. I lost most of my flexibility after a back injury when I was 19, and I lost the rest of it by the time I was 30.
I can do it! On the other hand (pun totally intended,) if I’m gonna curse you out, it’s gonna direct, blunt and verbal. Why waste time with fingers you might not see if I can speak with more specificity?
I tried immediately after reading the comic. It is actually more difficult than one would think. Probably why human culture decided not to attach meaning to flipping your ring fingers.
Even then I can’t do it. The ring finger just follows them down, and if I hold it up while clenching the others down, the middle still elevates a little.
No wonder tight-knit spear formations were called phalanges. These fingers do not want to move independently.
I believe this is because the sinews (or tendons, I always get those confused) of the ring finger and its friend starts out as one somewhere in the hand, but then splits. Whereas the other fingers are more separate to begin with.
So, does that mean I accidentally screwed up the sinew/tendon on my left hand? Cause the left pinky and ring fingers are more comfortable with putting more distance between themselves in this friendship metaphor for dexterity.
I also might be getting words/terms wrong, but I do believe I have the general concept right. The tendons that control three of your fingers (thumb, index, middle) are located on your hand, while the ones that control the other two (ring and pinkie) are located in your forearm. They pass thru a joint/bone/something referred to carpal tunnel, and I believe tend to be linked for some motions naturally.
The whole carpal tunnel syndrome thing stems from those tendons rubbing up against the inside/sides of said tunnel, happening by moving those fingers while the wrists are angled. Most likely occurs from keyboard use, s`why those fancy angled ones exist. I think pain/movement is likened to arthritis as well, though that could be an incorrect assumption.
I did it with both hands! It feels somewhat natural to me because I have dextrous fingers (played violin forever and currently a baker). I actually did this once sometime between 8th and 10th grade thinking it was the right way to do it. I was known as the innocent one for the longest. Also because I turned red at anything remotely sexual, didn’t curse, …you know, the usual stuff.
Baby bird?
It’s about individual differences. Different people have their finger tendons connected in different ways. Which is why some can do the contortions needed to play certain instruments, while others can’t do it without surgery.
I feel like I would prefer if she was more confident about it, cause then at least she’d be more understandable. Now it’s some weird tick that I don’t know how to deal with.
It’s definitely something she’s been dealing with a lot this last weekend.
I wonder if she’s got some PTSD flashbacks from trying to help Dana she’s going through and part of her is trying to push away anyone who tries to get close to her so she doesn’t have to go through that again…
I dunno, I’m grasping at straws, because these outbursts are starting to become a pattern and I think she’s as horrified by them as most of the comment thread is.
To me, it almost feels like she’s not actually expecting her outbursts to hurt other people -they’re an extension of her “everyone’s a jerk (especially me, but at least I’m forthright about it)” philosophy, and historically, when she’s said things like this, I imagine she’s gotten something along the lines of “whatever, bongo” or silence or a glare, but this is the first time in her life she’s been in a position where there were people who looked up to her. She’s doing the reflexive lashout to push them away, without realizing that they see her as not only companion, but mentor and friend, and is horrified not by what she says, but by how hurt they are, forgetting that she can do that.
Not saying I agree with how she’s putting these or the text in them -just throwing my hat in the ring on inside-the-skull guesswork.
As I’ve already posted elsewhere on today’s board, I’m starting to wonder if it is a neurotic thing on Sarah’s part: “I’m sad and miserable all the time; why isn’t everyone sad and miserable all the time in this shitty world? How dare they pretend to be happy? I’ll shame them into being sad and miserable all the time, just like they should be!”
I…kinda get what Sarah is doing, because this is a huge repeat of what happened with Dana, when everyone just put on a happy face and ignored that there was a problem.
I think she misread Joyce here, but I totally understand her wanting to remind people “no really, we have a problem here.”
Sarah actually DOES have a point, in that Joyce isn’t very…affected by this. Last time Billie was upset, Joyce was worried about her being depressed. And she’s shown concern before. I think Joyce doesn’t quite realize how bad Billie, and by extension Ruth, are. Which, seeing how Joyce doesn’t even know how Becky’s mom really died, I can’t blame her. The girl is probably happy to have some levity just by talking with Dorothy like old times. The weekend wasn’t as bad as we thought it’d be, but it’s still been a hard one for her. Joyce deserves a small moment of peace, but I can’t quite get angry at Sarah for being curious about Joyce being…not-Joyce about Billie.
Sarah just needs to learn how to speak ’emotionally compassionate human’. “How are you Joyce? You must have had a very rough weekend, I have been concerned. I am worried about Billie as well, I know she is your friend, are you alright?”. Alas, the title is dumbingofage for a reason.
Joyce is still basically confident about authority figures. Billie’s now where she can get professional supervision and help. Less placed on Joyce’s plate. More than that, though, she’s glad too be home and around her friends, nobody got yanked out of school, it’s such a relief.
*glad to be home, I mean; I can have grammar.
Mostly it’s just that people can feel various things in rapid succession, and that didn’t make any of the feelings less intense or less valid.
Absolutely true! Joyce does indeed deserve some peace because she’s had an awful week, she really has. On top of a very…varied month(?) of school. She’s also just extremely happy to see Dorothy again, which makes me feel better about those two considering how hostile Joyce was with her on Friday.
It’s also that providing emotional support for a suicidal person is emotionally exhausting and doing self-care with goofiness and laughter and catching up with friends who are not suicidal is a key part of recovering that emotional energy so you can continue to support said person.
Like, if you weren’t allowed to laugh or smile until a suicidal person was out of crisis, most people providing emotional support would burn out long before said suicidal person even saw hope of one day being out of crisis.
I can struggle with that aspect myself, AKA if I think a friend is suicidal I kinda get wrapped up and throw my whole being into it to try and help. But I’ll freely admit that that’s my character flaw. I struggle with saying no, doing stuff for myself, disappointing people. I will say for Billie, we’ve mostly just seen Walky and Becky’s reaction to it, not so much Joyce. Has Joyce even really talked to her yet? Doesn’t help that Billie isolated herself to Ruth’s room of course, and I completely understand wanting space from that. I’ve spent the last two years struggling to assist a friend who was depressed and caught in a self-destructive loop somewhat like Billie and unfortunately I had to just cut ties because that friend began to change, and wouldn’t talk to me about what was going on. I guess I know how Alice felt regarding Billie, ahaha. Hopefully Billie’s therapy sessions will help…
A few times when I’ve had suicidal friends/relatives, I’ve run into the Martyr who wants to make this other person’s crisis All About Them (y’know, “Oh woe is me that Person X is sick. Woe, woe, woe. Truly, this is the defining tragedy of mine life*” and huge show about how loving and supportive they are when other people are looking and nothing when they’re not because it’s not actually support they want to give, it’s the appearance of support), who seems to get personally offended by the idea of anyone being able to have fun or lighten up for a bit when there’s an ongoing crisis.
Martyr folks like that are to be avoided at a time like this, lest your own mental health take a tailspin – there’s nothing wrong with self-care, and it’s really shitty to shame someone for it.
*And hey different people have different ways of coping so if the woe is me thing helps you cope I’m all for it but I’m not talking garden-variety woe is me thing I’m talking the person who will, in the middle of someone else having a mental health crisis, to that person’s face, will reframe the situation as being all about them. “Don’t you know how much this hurts me?” and use it to get attention from other people and who will sometimes try to sabotage the recovery of the ill person so they can get more attention longer and continue playing the victim and etc etc. People like that exist, I have a first-degree relative who is one, and that’s the kind of person I’m talking about. Same type that would take me (a childhood brittle asthmatic) to a smoking restaurant so they could then act the martyr when an attack landed me in hospital (I am old enough that when I was a kid, a “non-smoking zone” was a half-dozen tables in the far corner of a room with the same poor ventilation so you were getting just as much second-hand smoke as anyone else there – and I was in my teens before they banned smoking in restaurants altogether – which I’m super happy for because else I would literally be risking my life every time I go into a restaurant or grocery store).
Blech, sorry you had to deal with that incredibly selfish relative.
For a hopefully even more extreme version of this impulse, to endanger a kid’s health so you can be a martyr, there’s Münchausen’s Syndrome by proxy.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen_syndrome_by_proxy
Counter argument:
Did *Sarah* go to the hospital/student health center to check up on Billie?
No?
Then there’s a very log sticking out of her eye that she needs to deal with, ‘for she starts complaining about the speck in Joyce’s.
Very true, I doubt Sarah’s visited Billie. Though they also aren’t friends, unlike Joyce and Billie. Even if they were friends though, I doubt Sarah would visit. Not because she’s an asshole but because she’s an anti-social person. It does sound like she’s complaining, but I don’t think that was her intent. Though Sarah doesn’t need to pick at that wound, no.
Sarah’s never expressed fondness for Billie.
Joyce has.
Others have already said it, but it seems to me like she might have been wondering why Joyce wasn’t more apparently concerned. Unfortunately she proceeded to Sarah any attempt at a gesture of support.
The most horrifying, terrible, awful day of Sarah is going to be when she realizes she’s not a world-weary cynical mature adult but a moody Goth teenager who wears colors.
Come on, Sarah, a vast majority of the time I’m on your side, but this is just unnecessary. Joyce has been through enough recently. If she’s able to be happy at all, just let her be. Also, she’s not in any way responsible for what’s going on with Billie, so don’t guilt-trip her about it.
I know it’s bad, but why is everybody judging Sarah? She takes this way seriously, and it’s hurting all of her friends, but Joyce hasn’t shown signs of it phasing her, which tends to piss off people who think it’s apathy. (You know, that thing Sarah keeps pretending she can do.) Sire, she shouldn’t have said it outright, but Sarah’s used to a Joyce that probably would’ve ignored Billie and Ruth as sinners, so some concern about her lack of reaction was to be expected.
So, yeah, bad move, but it’s not like she became Mary or anything.
It might help if anyone had brought Sarah up to date. The last she heard, Joyce’s good friend Billie was suicidal and in the Health Center. If that were still true, Joyce’s cheery attitude would be questionable. So Sarah questioned it.
No, she made a snide, hurtful remark. Though I do agree that she probably wanted to just ask, but her need to hide her concern overpowered her and this is what came out of her mouth instead.
But people not providing you (unprompted) with all the information you might want, or not emoting how/when you think they should, does not excuse being an asshole, even though I hope Joyce will forgive her for this.
Yeah, Joyce should probably forgive her since, as Cerberus and Bagge pointed out down below, Joyce said something just as hurtful to Sarah the week before.
I think that will be Joyce’s natural inclination, though I think she’s also been sitting on some anger so I wouldn’t put it past Joyce to read her the riot act first.
This is about the nastiest thing she’s ever said to Joyce, and she’s pretty clearly affected by it. It might be cute, but even attempting to give someone the finger is a still big deal for Joyce.
I like Sarah a lot, but I think that, plus the way this feels completely in-character for her, makes me more mad at her for it. I don’t hate her, but I’m super cheesed
Same. She’s clearly trying to ask Joyce how she’s feeling. She definitely could have done a better job, but it’s definitely not indicative someone who doesn’t care for people’s feelings at all.
But a large number of commentors ARE condemning Sarah for one stupid thing she said then appeared to regret immediately. We sure are a judgmental bunch. We have met the enemy and they are us.
I’m just catching up, but I’m firmly on Team Sarah has earned a lot over the years and am willing to wait a few strips to see if this is just her in a fuck state or if she just said something immensely fucked up and will be quickly trying to apologize.
Haha, I’ve noticed the judginess, too. I’ve partaken myself, but then I think it’s really easy to forget your own mistakes and jump on another person. It’s definitely not only this comment board, though. I think it’s something popping up in the larger society.
People get burned on Facebook, other social media platforms, anything you say can and WILL be used against you, and the people are your court of law. Once upon a time, you’d say something stupid or shitty, people would call you out on it, you’d feel whatever you need to feel, and then you’d pretty much never do it again. Now, a random person can film you, or put you on blast on the internet, and you’d basically have a label for the next few weeks to months to years.
There’s something about the internet that makes it easier to judge someone really harshly, and there’s something about about it that allows us here to share deeply personal things, be loving and understand and support each other.
It’s a double edged sword, because many people reap the benefits (I reap the benefits on this forum!), but there’s also not a lot of room to make mistakes (sometimes big ones) and learn from them. So a lot of people just pretend to be perfect and surround themselves only with like minded people, to the point that it really creates a stagnancy in the growth of character. Again, not talking about this particular forum, just a lot of the different programs and forums I’ve watched and experienced. Sorry for being off topic too.
Don’t apologize, that’s a clear statement of a point that’s important and relevant to this forum. It’s a little meta, but meta discussion can be necessary.
Kinda reminds me of how assorted humor sites, image boards, and such (4chan and tumblr spring to mind) always have a few people who love to scream about how inferior all those other sites are, when they’re pretty much all the same thing – a bunch of folks celebrating interests ranging from the mainstream to the niche and dorky, plus everything in between (and porn of everything along the scale), just in different formats.
I disagree but mainly because I think Sarah’s kind of a huge asshole in general. I know people irl who are exactly like her (ie – cynical and pessimistic to the point where they constantly need to bring others down with them) and they are incredibly toxic and absolutely miserable people to be around. Sarah didn’t say this out of concern for Billie (who she made no effort to see in the hospital, so she’s in no position to make shitty remarks to Joyce), she said it because she’s so miserable that she can’t bear to see someone being happier/more optimistic than she is.
There’s almost always a reason someone acts that way. Not necessarily something that excuses their behavior, but usually something that at least explains part of it.
In Sarah’s case, we know she’s not an entirely toxic person. The lengths she went to to protect Joyce at that party was enough to earn her the benefit of a doubt, at least for now.
Oh i 100% see why Sarah is the way she is, but tbh I still think her behavior is super toxic. She’s capable of doing kind things (ie- the party) and I think she genuinely cares about Joyce, but she also needs to seriously improve her worldview and how she treats people because more often than not she can be seriously emotionally abusive and judgmental.
I’ll also fully admit to being biased here, I had a friend in high school who was exactly like Sarah and they were awful to be around & being friends with them was emotionally exhausting. Being a cynic is one thing but when it reaches this point it’s really not healthy to have people like that in your life; hopefully Sarah does serious growing
We’re pissed at Sarah because she has enough context clues to figure out that Joyce has had a really shitty weekend, and instead of realizing that Joyce desperately needs to decompress she piles on more nastyness. This isn’t kicking someone when they’re down, it’s kicking them while they are trying to get back up
I can’t decide whether Sarah just can’t understand how badly Joyce needs to put off worrying about Billie for her own emotional health right now, or if she really is so cynical that she thinks she’s finally seen proof that even Joyce doesn’t really care about other people and her mistrust of everyone was justified all along.
Yeah, but the depressing things are getting more and more inaccurate. Whether it be her comments about Joyce never being happy again or Dina just being a rebound to Becky and not someone she can fully love or this.
Like, right now, she needs to slow down and deal with maybe whatever is going on that’s making her feel she needs to lash out at people’s happiness before trying to people (and we’re back to everyone needs a therapist of Age).
I do wonder what is making her see the negative in everything. Maybe she is functionally depressed? Maybe something happened to her and she can’t see the world any other way for a while..
The Dina-Becky thing is not an uncommon possibility though. It’s depressing as hell, but it was a possibility. I’ve seen it happen when I was in college. You’re not using the person per say, but you just don’t realize how much of the relationship is an emotional crutch until you get to a better place and you realize that you just “needed” them, rather than “wanting” them as whole person. I totally agree with you on the Joyce thing though.
I’m actually really curious myself. Like, I imagine a big part of it is the fallout from Dana. I mean, she took a big risk for herself and got majorly emotionally tangled with a friend group and trying to support a person in crisis and the person ended up in a bad place and her friends spent better part of a year harassing her over it. That’s gonna fuck up anyone.
But I agree, that doesn’t feel like all that’s going on or the central cause of her cynicism and fatalism and need to rain on parades. I think you might be on to something with the depression thing. Honestly, she probably could have used talking to a therapist months ago.
Indeed. Living with a roommate in crisis can be stressful and scary. And calling the campus authorities for them must come with an incredible amount of guilt and baggage, and questions, especially for a college aged person, when the last thing you want, even if you’re Sarah, is to piss off everyone around you and end up lonely.
It’s like, when you think about it, she’s a sophomore living with freshmen. Most sophomores are living with other sophomores at my college, unless Sarah was just unlucky in the room lottery. Why haven’t we seen more people from her year around her?
That is interesting. I believe I heard that Carla is year two, but is everyone else here year one? And if it’s uncommon or rare for a cross year roommate situation, then why here? Is there a story there? And what would it be? Primarily Sarah, Joyce, or both?
I almost wonder if Sarah has anxiety thing, where whenever stuff is going good she starts to get afraid that the ‘other shoe’ is going to drop and everything will be as bad it was when Dana was at her worst again and she’s trying to brace herself for it because she’s not recognizing the sense of impending doom isn’t rational anymore.
I used to work with a person like that, who was different from Sarah in that she also felt her happiest when she felt like she was “rescuing” someone – so her anxiety would make her certain you were going to fail, so she’d sabotage you (either with snide remarks like Sarah is or through setting you up to fail) to “rip the bandaid off” and get the failure over with quickly so that she could then rush in and feel better by “rescuing” you from the failure she engineered in the first place. Being the only autistic employee in the place, guess who she chose as the target for a lot of her “helping”?
(she is why I left that workplace. There was a lot of other stuff going on as well – like they kept forgetting to pay me and so on and so forth – but ultimately I just hit a point of “I can’t stand being around this person any more” and quit)
Anyway, Sarah here is reminding me of that woman – she is mistaking her anxiety-driven worst-case-scenario for fact and getting prickly that nobody else seems to “recognize” what’s “going to happen”.
And this is why cynics can’t have nice things. Believe me I tried, made the realization, and then devoted myself to overcoming my cynicism by watching a half hour of kitten and or puppy videos. Because kitty and puppy videos prove that there is, in fact, good in the world. Either that or bawling my eyes out to “The San Patricios”.
Sarah is not a passive receptacle, and is capable of asking questions or going to learn things for herself.
She has instead decided to go for the super-snide, passive aggressive comment that can VERY EASILY be interpreted as “Guess you really don’t care about Billie, huh?”
But she doesn’t know she’s accepted. My own social anxiety does this thing where I perceive myself as hated by everyone I meet, especially when I’m under stress. At Sarah’s age, I didn’t know it was a false perception, and believed it. I wonder if she’s doing the same thing.
It’s weird, but brains are very weird, especially when they break in subtle ways.
I wonder if we will learn more about Sarah beyond her freshman roommate situation. It seems to me that her personality is naturally very serious, steeped in realism with a lot of cynicism, and she has trouble being vulnerable. She’s also not overly friendly, nice, or accommodating in the way society would like a woman to be, which I don’t necessarily see as a bad thing.
But at the same time I sense that she’s at least very used to existing in an emotional place where she’s waiting for the other shoe to drop. Sometimes bad life events can make you feel fragile and confused (Joyce), make you put on a mask (Becky), and or make you very negative (Sarah).
Besides being a normal empathetic human, I wonder if there’s any other reason why she’s continuously worrying about her friends’/acquaintances’ situations to the point where she frequently points out pertinent emotional issues they need to address. Maybe her mantra is, “always think about the bad things, so when they really hit you it doesn’t hit as hard”?
This is all speculation though.
I generally like Sarah, too, and although she doesn’t know about Joyce’s weekend and she probably genuinely wants to know how Joyce is feeling, she didn’t have to say that right this second. Or she could have asked her better.
I wanted to make a ironic sexist joke here, but feared it’d be taken as a toxic masculinity trite. I believe I’ve been successful in the past, but may have crossed the line before, and I’m unclear how far would be needed to go to cross it again. I’m rambling, aren’t I?
Not really – I don’t know what the joke was, but for me thinking to myself that whatever I just thought wouldn’t be appropriate and then not saying it is progress. As controversial as it sounds, it also depends on the person you’re speaking to.
Some people enjoy sarcasm, some people have little tolerance for it, and so on. It’s even harder to gauge on the internet, but jokes based on identity is sticky territory, as many comedians have learned. From what I’ve heard, the rule is apparently don’t say it at all, or if you do it *better* be funny.
For me I find sarcasm tags really helpful, especially since online you don’t have the nonverbal cues like vocal tone and facial expression to work off to try to figure out whether someone is joking or not (which is fine for me since I am crap at picking them up anyway but most people seem to find parsing sarcasm much more difficult without them)
But seriously, that is shitty, Sarah. Really. The “Oh shit, I really said a shitty thing” expression just isn’t good enough. It’s really not. You should immediately be on the floor begging for forgiveness. Not awkward silence and noticing that someone is using the wrong fingers for flipping you the bird.
This is Mike-level shittiness. It really is. It’s where you just want to tear someone down simply because you cannot see them being happy. Or even worse, the fact that they are happy again means you were wrong. Dina’s pipe-bomb of truth was meant to make you take a good hard look at yourself and realising something was wrong with you, not with Joyce!
Did you just not overhear the entirety of Dorothy’s and Joyce’s conversation? Did you not pick up the clues that this was exactly the kind of therapy that Joyce needed, because GODDAMMIT JOYCE HAS HAD SOME REALLY SERIOUS ISSUES ON HER OWN THIS LAST WEEK?!?!
Look, it’s simple: Yes, I think most of us could take better care of other people. But it’s more difficult to do that if we also do not take care of ourselves, because then we end up becoming the giving tree (which I only learned about a few days ago myself). And when we have done all we could, then the best thing we can do is recharge our mental batteries until it is time to do what we can again. And if that involves ladying it up and talking some quality silliness, then so damn well be it!
And Joyce, wonderful Joyce -does take care of other people-. Quite often to her own detriment. Heck, sometimes she knows it’s to her own detriment… And she still does it! Did -you- go to the hospital to check up on Billie, Sarah? No? Then shut your hypocritical little pie-hole!
All this time, it’s not really what you’ve feared that Joyce would break from coming to this university. It’s what you secretly wished, or maybe even not that secretly. Your expression is not “oh shit, I said a shitty thing”, it’s instead “Oh shit, did I say that out loud?”, meaning you’ve been thinking it for some time already, knowing you shouldn’t say it.
But you did. And the only reason Joyce is not gonna quit you forever (not that I’d blame her if she did) is because she is a much better person than you are.
I’m not sure if Sarah did overhear the conversation. I think she should apologize, but I don’t think she should be on her knees or anything like that. Remember, Sarah hasn’t seen a lot of what everyone else has seen. She wasn’t at the hospital, and she didn’t go home with Joyce – she doesn’t know these things.
I think Sarah’s worldview is steadily being challenged in the comic. She thinks that because bad things happen to people, people change and become sadder or more cynical or more forlorn about life in general, perhaps because it’s happened to her. She (rightfully) reported her roommate, and everyone around her changed for the worse, and so did she.
I disagree with the notion that she secretly wants Joyce to be unhappy. I think her expectations, based on interacting with Joyce and her own personal hangups about people of Joyce’s background, have influenced the way she sees and expects Joyce to be. She thought “real life” would “break” Joyce because hey, even other white people think middle class, sheltered, u:ber religious white folks (especially mormons and such) are a certain way. “They”, whoever they may be, haven’t experienced “real life” problems – which we see here is clearly not the case. But from many different identity perspectives, there’s a perverse satisfaction in seeing someone who you *perceive* to be unaware of “real life” problems get some real life problems and “grow up” so to speak.
Right, so then Sarah is not desiring Joyce to be unhappy, she desires her to be a little less chipper, religious, hopeful, less “Joyce-like” and more like everyone else, more like Sarah. This kind of person experiences hardship and then they become a more cynical version of themselves, which is not to say unhappy, just more realistic and grounded to a point. Sarah cannot understand why Joyce is still herself, only she doesn’t yet realize that experiences like these do not define a person.
Joyce is not perpetually a victim, the same way Sarah will not be a “snitch/unfeeling bingo” for the rest of her life, even though she clearly thinks that of herself and tries to pretend she doesn’t care for people. You don’t have to be stewing in negative feelings as proof that you’ve ever had a terrible experience, and those terrible moments are but parts of your whole, multi-faceted human self. She’s wondering “how can Joyce experience all that and still have the ability to live her best life?” Maybe she will be the one who learns from Joyce.
She is standing -right there-, when she hears at least the end of the tale of Joyce’s weekend, and while she did not hear the whole tale, even the end of it must have sounded like something really bad went down. I mean, you don’t kick in a window for no reason.
She was standing -right there- when Dorothy asked “So this weekend wasn’t -completely- awful, then?” which is a “hint” in huge flashing neon letters that the story involved a hell of a lot of bad things.
She was standing -right there- when Joyce tried to minimize how awful it was (or rather, now that she was -home-, it already started feeling less awful), and then said ” I’m just happy to be back here,” which is another neon-flashing sign that right now, Joyce is in desperate need to focus on Joyce!
She was standing -right there- when Dorothy managed to provide Joyce with the very exact thing Joyce needed: Some quality best friend ladytime together.
Oh, and the fact that they just got back from visiting the hospital to check on Billie and Ruth should probably be another neon-flashing “hint” that Joyce cared. Sure, Becky initiated it, but there was never, never any question whatsoever that Joyce was also coming along.
So she might know know the whole story, but she certainly has enough pieces to piece together some important parts, if only she wasn’t too busy misinterpreting Dina’s epic truth-bomb and thinking that Joyce needs to stop smiling.
And as we see more of Sarah, I am also starting to question more and more the truth of her side of that story with Dana, and also whether it really was the right thing to do.
And even if she doesn’t know about the weekend, she should damn well just be glad to see that Joyce is being Joyce again! What does she do instead? She ripped straight into Joyce’s insecurities and tried to guilt-trip her. Yet another person of a list of horrible persons through this weekend telling Joyce (or talking behind her back but having her overhear it) she should feel bad about something Joyce should not in fact feel bad about.
Sarah had no right to do that. SHE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING RIGHT TO DO THAT! That is -not- about “making people realistic”, that is just straight trying to make them unhappy, it really is.
You are right in that she got the gist of the general emotions. With stuff like that, it’s not easy to completely comprehend unless you hear all of the story, not some of it. People who don’t experience these things often need to hear the whole story, which is annoying, but true. Her face in the last few panels shows she just realized she clearly doesn’t know what the hell she’s talking about.
I think her side was the truth, and she did the best she could in that situation, just like calling the residence manager was the best anyone could have done in the Billie-Ruth situation – none of them are professionals, nor did they know the whole of Ruth’s story or Billie’s story – what else could they have reasonably done?
I don’t mean to say that she should have said that specifically, most definitely – I agree with you there. She could have said “Joyce, would you like to talk about Billie?” “Joyce, how *was* your weekend?” “Do you want to talk about this right now?”
She wasn’t tearing her down, she was being sarcastic here. her normal, abrasive, bitter, cynical, thinks everyone else except her should be wearing their emotions on their sleeves, especially Joyce, self.
I don’t think she’s a horrible person, just that she needs to deal better with people, and, similar to what I said before and thinking about your last paragraph, that she’s mixing up realism and unhappiness. What she thinks is realism is other people’s misery. It’s like the person who thinks they’re more worldly and edgy by claiming everything is pointless. Well, we have a short time on this earth, why not be a little like Joyce and throw your best into everything? But Sarah doesn’t understand that yet – at least with people, she’s not trying her best right now.
“What she thinks is realism is other people’s misery. It’s like the person who thinks they’re more worldly and edgy by claiming everything is pointless. Well, we have a short time on this earth, why not be a little like Joyce and throw your best into everything? But Sarah doesn’t understand that yet – at least with people, she’s not trying her best right now.”
Quoted for full and utter agreement.
I might have something else to say later, but I just wanted you to know that we at the very least agree on this.
I think Sarah just doesn’t recognize that kind of reaction. Even in that last scene, she couldn’t see those as genuine smiles, but just as denial.
When Sarah cares about someone who’s in trouble she can’t just be happy anyway, even for self-care. She’s constantly worrying. She doesn’t yet really understand how other people handle stress differently. If she was laughing and chatting happily with her friends it would be evidence that she didn’t really care. Seeing Joyce do that not only means the weekend didn’t really bother her, but that she really isn’t broken up about Billie.
That’s bullshit of course and she realizes it as soon she sees Joyce’s reaction, but I don’t think she really gets it.
Joyce’ll get over it. She’s said worse things to Sarah and they’ve gotten through that.
The key difference, I feel is that if Sarah does occasionally want to tear people down, she at least recognizes it as a bad action and one she shouldn’t ever indulge. Whereas Mike revels in the casual destruction of his friends because… for the lulz, I guess?
Doesn’t make what Sarah said right. What she said wouldn’t be right in any context known to man (seriously, to everyone, do not ever accuse someone doing self-care after supporting a suicidal friend of not caring about their suicidal friend, self-care is a critical phase of recovering from that level of emotional stress and people in that phase tend to be in a fragile emotional state where they are already beating themselves up over whether or not they are doing “enough”).
As Raidah said to Char, certain statements aren’t right because we’re in the universe not because of any particular context.
“The key difference, I feel is that if Sarah does occasionally want to tear people down, she at least recognizes it as a bad action and one she shouldn’t ever indulge. Whereas Mike revels in the casual destruction of his friends because… for the lulz, I guess?”
Well, here is the thing… She does it a lot. And I mean a lot. She constantly tries to repaint what people are doing to make it look bad. And she does not even always recognise that it’s bad either, or at least it isn’t shown to us. Only when the line she has crossed is on a different continent does she ever go “oooops!”
Did she realise how crappy it really was to tell Dina that Dina was a rebound? If so, we never saw.
It is safe to assume that we never saw her realising it was bad to tell Dina that Joyce may never smile again. Dina was the one dropping the epic pipe-bomb of truth on Sarah on that one.
Did she really realise how crappy it was when she pushed away Jacob? Well, the first thing she does is to immediately try and justify it to herself. So yeah, she realises that she is toxic, I suppose… But instead of taking it as a lesson in being less toxic, she just doubles down. “See, I told you you don’t want to be friends with me” indeed.
True, she eventually did realise that trying to “take” Jacob from Raidah (aka acting as if he is a trophy instead of a human being) was bad… Then again, maybe not. That strip where she just goes “NO! No no no no no!” might also have been “I do not deserve to be happy! I must be miserable for all of my existence”, showing that at least she is perfectly capable of tearing herself down as much as as she is of others. Hard to tell.
And here is the thing: Throughout all of these (and other) examples of Sarah’s miserable mouth, she does not seem to ever actually stop doing it. One way or another, she constantly pushes away the one single lesson she really needs to learn from all of these things: That she is not helping anyone at all. She really isn’t. That even if she only secretly wants to care about people, then she needs to make sure that they are actually helped.
The fact that she isn’t even trying that makes me wonder if she really cares, or if that is the mask she keeps up, not for others, but for herself. That this is what she tells herself every day to justify her own miserable behaviour.
The difference between her and Mike seems to me that she wants people to be unhappy because she is. Mike wants them to be unhappy for the lulz. And while the latter is arguably worse, I would not think of it as a “key difference”, but rather a matter of a fairly small degree of difference.
I think that where you’re wrong is where you think she tries to repaint people in a negative light. I don’t really think she can help it. It feels like almost compulsive behavior.
You might very well be right. I will be honest, I have been doing some real rage rants, right now, because I got seriously pissed off.
Oh yeah, that was rather obvious, wasn’t it?
Anyway, the equally obvious point is that while I still think I have a right to be angry, those emotions have probably led me to some wrong conclusions.
In fact, I am already starting to feel a bit sadder for Sarah. Still pissed off, but I’m also realising how she is treating herself at least as badly as she treats anyone else too.
I do hope that I at the very least managed to keep focused on being pissed off at Sarah, and did not attack other people simply because they disagreed with me. Right now, I do not trust myself quite yet to read my own comments objectively to make that assessment myself.
You actually don’t know how much it means for me to hear you say that.
Because there is one thing about me that I don’t like, and that I do try to suppress for good reasons, and that is the fact that when I get pissed off, I can… Well, let’s not mince words, I can be one of the worst assholes ever. I can be as bad as Sarah just was, or worse.
Now, this is a tremendously bad thing to be. And it is something I have worked on over the years to stop, because holy shit it is so horribly toxic to be able to say that one particular thing that is like punching through someone’s ribcage and ripping out their heart. I really do not want to be that person. In general, I am not.
My greatest fear about myself is to get so angry that I do just that.
And now I think you know why it’s important to me that you said what you said.
Like, there’s an argument that she’s just been on a self-destructive kick of late between her aborted attempt at revenge against Raidah by “winning Jacob”, her “fuck your NRE, you’re a rebound” comment to Dina, and now this. And definitely there’s an argument to be made that she doesn’t know how to handle people being happy, inherently mistrusting that as prelude to some awfulness, or something she needs to destroy to hold on to her cynical attitude.
And I’m suspecting or at least hoping that Sarah will reveal whatever brain fart made her strike like that out of goddamn nowhere when she already knows that Joyce has been holding on by a thread for a good week or so.
Overall, it’s clear that she realizes very quickly that she fucked up and there’s direct parallels to Joyce fucking up in a major way last week trodding all over her Dana button:
Especially with that “oh fuck, what did I just do” face she makes in Panel 3. But it’s still a massive fuck-up and not an okay thing to say to anyone at any time, but especially not after sprinting off to the hospital to check on said suicidal friend she is accusing Joyce of not caring about.
With irony given the character, I quote Raidah’s reponse to the shittiest member of her crew dropping the r-word: “(Sarah), no. C’mon. Don’t say that.”
Like, Sarah’s got a good enough track record, I’m willing to hold judgment for a few strips, but she better be fast with the apologies cause that’s a big fuck up on her part.
Possible reason for Sarah’s “brain fart”. Sarah cares more about Joyce than Joyce knows and Sarah will admit. Evidenced by the worried looks out the window etc. Then Joyce arrives back and virtually ignores Sarah. Willis made a point point of showing it with Sarah’s feeble “Welcome back home” after everyone left for the Health Center. Often people feeling ignored will do something extreme to get attention, like a kid throwing a tantrum, or a Walky throwing a toy. And may not even be aware of why they’re doing it. So yeah, “brain fart” is a good term for it.
Which is not a good trait to do. Negative attention for the sake of attention just trains people to view you as toxic and give you zero attention. Sarah’s earned a lot of free passes from Joyce, but she’s not gonna want to make a habit of outbursts like that.
Sarah has definitely had a slower emotional growth rate than Joyce since she is so guarded about her problems. It might help if they talked more directly about things rather than around things. As it is. Dina surprisingly has become the sounding board and interpreter for Sarah’s relational problems. Dina would probably point out that she is a bad choice for that function.
I don’t know, I feel like its more that Sarah is struggling with expressing her feelings. People ignoring her may just be aggravating that, because it makes it harder to break out of her “not caring” routine when people expect it of her, and don’t bother attempting interactions that they would otherwise.
She wanted to welcome Joyce back warmly, but could only just manage the effort. If Joyce had said something to her as she came in, she could have just responded cheerfully (or as close to that as she could).
She clearly wanted to come with to the health center, and if they’d suggested she come along, she’d no doubt have begrudgingly agreed. But they didn’t, so she would have had to tag along, revealing she was coming entirely because she wanted to.
Here, maybe she just wanted to hear how things went at the health center, but since Joyce never brought it up, again, Sarah was given no find out without revealing she cared at least a little, and the cynical part of her brain rebelled. She even looks a little surprised herself about what she just said.
She seems to want to overcome her misanthropy, but she keeps finding herself in situations that require giant leaps, when she’s only ready for baby steps.
“She wanted to welcome Joyce back warmly, but could only just manage the effort.”
Well, she had a perfectly good chance earlier this day, but her response to Joyce making an enthusiastic “Sarah!” was “Oh. It’s you.”
That right there is as cheerful as Sarah was to Joyce when Joyce specifically addressed her. Which was the first thing Joyce did when she came back to her room the first time that day.
Now, it is true that in the next strip she did stand alone in the hallway saying “Welcome back home.”, but that felt more like a moment of sarcasm. The full version would have read “Welcome back to unnecessary drama and all of the things I think will break you.”
Oh, right. I was getting that return confused with when her and Dorothy returned from the health center. It was on the later entrance that they just walk in without even speaking to her.
Still want to read Sarah’s “Welcome back home” as what she’d wanted to say when Joyce arrived, and she’s kicking herself for again chickening out on allowing herself to show the slightest bit of affection. I have some difficulty with that myself at times, though not to such a huge extent, or with such minor displays.
I am the eternal optimist though, and sarcasm also seems like a reasonable take on it.
The “eternal optimist part” is also easy to confuse between me and Fart Captor, as is the “coolest of the cool” as far as I can tell (also – awwwww, thanks your majesty. Awefully kind. 🙂
Yeah, I was gonna jokingly complain that the switch from Captor’s Carla grav made me mistake them for Bagge a couple times, but… coolest of the cool. Couldn’t bring myself to complain even in jest about more Becky.
I certainly wouldn’t. Bagge seems like good people. Plus, I’ve had that problem myself. We seem to have similar opinions regarding Becky, with respect to her being the best.
To be fair, that first reunion was in front of a fairly sizeable crowd of people. It can be a pretty giant leap to go from wanting to be open to one person to trying to do so in front of a group of spectators that you aren’t nearly as close to.
Good argument for self destruction. I think it is more in the line of “trying to prove to herself that she is as toxic as she thinks she is, and thus unworthy of the friendship of un-broken people like Joyce and Dina”. Quite similar to Ruth.
Either way, I agree that this is the second act of… something important for Joyce and Sarah, so I look forward to see what happens next.
Shit, that’s a parallel I didn’t even think of… and crap, you might be right. Mav was saying above that Sarah seemed depressed and that may be true.
And I think it might have partially to do with seeing Joyce in crisis this last week and being all “I can’t go through this again” about it mixed in with torpedoing the friendship with Jacob because she believes she has no value. Though now that I say that last line, it seems this belief in worthlessness has been around for awhile. Hell, didn’t the flashbacks with her and Raidah have her making self-deprecating jokes about her worth as a friend to Raidah?
So yeah, she might be carrying some nasty depression that’s starting to eat its way through in really negative ways.
Sarah loves Joyce, she has spent the weekend worrying sick for her, she somewhat resents the fact that Joyce did not seem to break from her family encounter and she worries that she has, under the smile.
And she expresses it in the most hurtful way she can. Those scars from the Dana debacle must really hurt from recent events.
I’m REALLY glad Joyce is not like Sarah. She didn’t bottle it up, she got mad about it.
Bottling can be dangerous, because when you bottle under pressure, it tends to leak and you can’t really control in what direction it sprays or who might be caught up in it.
Yeah. I am kinda surprised kinda not at her behavior. She is doing the ‘lash out at friend for making me care about her’ Routine. I expected after a character told her “Wow you really are worried about Joyce” something like this would happen.
I’ve suspected this before: Sarah is really disturbed when people are happy around her. However, in this case, I rather think that, because Joyce isn’t behaving in line with Sarah’s expectations, she’s getting extra annoyed. I also think, in her amateur psychologist way, she’s worried that Joyce is avoiding her sadness or something.
Sarah would be right to say that Joyce is acting out of her normal character but I don’t think that she realises that this, in very many ways, is a new Joyce with fewer behavioural constraints.
OK, you know what, I’ll stick with the first panel. How I adore the Joyce and Dotty interaction! This constant care, and support and genuine interest in the other. They really have missed each other.
There are some REALLY healthy friendships going on here. Joyce-Dorothy, Walky-Becky, Dina-Sarah… After all stress and shit that’s going down, it’s wonderfully rewarding to see them so relaxed with each other.
True, but let’s not forget the “rebound” comment. And how she tried to turn Dina into someone as pessimistic as herself by saying Joyce would probably never smile again.
While I’m an innate pessimist like Sarah, I have to agree that that was uncalled for. Just because someone’s been through trauma or hardship doesn’t mean they have to act like it ALL the time. Do YOU want to keep thinking about something bad that happened to you? It’s quite abhorrent how in a lot of, for example, rape cases, the victim will get attacked or disbelieved simply because “she’s not behaving like she got raped”.
wow, Sarah that was epic bad. I hope Joyce rips her a new one. Seriously, I like Sarah, but her whole “the world is crappy attitude” is getting really old, really fast. It’s like she stayed in bongo phase while everyone else free grew out of it.
yeah, she had some shitty situations, especially the roommate thing but it still doesn’t account for her overall toxic attitude. She needs to seriously get over it and grow up.
Yeah, after reading the strip for the second time, I tried it with my ring fingers to see if I could. My right one wouldn’t stretch out properly so obviously Joyce must have been practising for a while to stretch her tendons or something!
I think that Sarah and Mike both have a similar issue: They both think that the world is essentially a horrible, hateful place and that no-one has any right to be happy.
The big difference is that Mike has turned his not-inconsiderable intelligence towards scientifically and methodically making everyone as angry, hateful and miserable as he thinks that a sane person should be whilst Sarah’s outbursts seem more traumatically impulsive.
Well, I guess this is where my archive binge ends. Looks like it’s time to read it every day with the rest of everyone. I just want to say that this webcomic has made me FEEL. It’s wonderfully written and the little bits of detail like character accents have made it a joy to read. It pains me to hear that you have known people that are like some of the more abhorrent characters portrayed here, but if that’s true, you -probably- also know people like Walky, Dorothy, and Becky, and that’s wonderful to know. Thank you for pouring at least part of your heart and soul into this comic, it’s been a lovely ride so far and I look forward to reading it until the very end.
Sarah seems to have streamlined her thought process lately. I mean didn’t she used to have reflections and character development and stuff? Now it’s more like
Step 1: Locate person
Step 2: Accuse person of not caring enough about the bad thing
Step 3: Repeat from step 1
It looks like Joyce’s right hand is giving the devil horns which might actually be worse than the middle finger considering her upbringing. I hope Joyce finally calls Sarah out on her cynicism being the reason why people don’t like her. She did the right thing with Dana and people give her grief for that, but it’s not the only reason she’s disliked. Her attitude doesn’t make any new friends and sabotages potential relationships like Jacob.
I wonder how much of Sarah’s attitude is Dana-related and how much is pre-existing.
Like, I kind of thing she was naturally a bit pessimistic and prone to taking the cynical view of things but also very confident in her own judgement and capabilities before Dana – she probably didn’t have many friends but maybe like Dorothy she felt she didn’t need many or didn’t have time for many… and her usual coping strategy in difficult emotional situations (“Avoid it if possible, if not, snark at it until it goes away”) was working fine for her even if it made it hard to keep friends… and then Dana’s mom died.
Suddenly avoidance was impossible because the difficult situation was in her room. Snarking probably made shit worse by causing Dana to explode at her, and nothing was helping. Finally she hit her own crisis point with midterms and made an ultimately self-serving decision (it was – I don’t knock her for it, though, as in all honesty I’ve made similar decisions before and probably will do again). She justified it to herself as Dana needing help (which Dana did, to be fair), but ultimately her primary concern was not losing her scholarship, which Dana’s friends sussed out immediately. Sarah not being the greatest at social interaction, and Dana’s friends being privileged shits who don’t grasp that for Sarah, losing her scholarship means losing her one chance at her dream (let’s be real: In Sarah’s boat, she only gets one. We don’t know much about her socioeconomic background but we know that she can’t get student loans, which probably means she knows nobody who could co-sign with her, and that she can’t afford to go out as much as a lot of her peers – both of those suggest that she comes from an economically disadvantaged background. Poor PoC don’t get second chances in North America, typically – Sarah gets one, and that’s it, and she knows she can’t afford to fuck it up or to let anyone else fuck it up for her). Plus, IME people tend to undervalue the cost of being self-sacrificing – especially when it’s not them who would have to make the sacrifice (i.e., Dana’s friends would not adequately account for the cost Sarah had already paid and that she was being asked to pay by them and by Dana – all well and good to say, “You should have given her more time,” but what about what that was going to cost Sarah? If the other folks wanted Sarah not to report Dana so bad, they should have offered her a room swap or something – but they didn’t, they just expected that Sarah would put up with an ongoing crisis forever and never complain about the toll it was taking on her. And they didn’t because they severely underestimated the strain it was causing Sarah). Between those factors, there’s probably no way Sarah was going to salvage her support structure after she made the decision to eject from the situation – even if Sarah was right and it was going down in flames.
And now she’s in a situation that feels like deja vu all over again and she’s terrified. Because last year, she came way too close for comfort to losing her one and only shot (at least, as far as she feels about it).
In her mind, what made last year such a disaster was getting too close to Dana and her friends, so at first she tries to stay away from Joyce – but Joyce is puppy-like in her ability to worm her way into people’s hearts (give someone who dislikes dogs one of those puppies from an enthusiastically-friendly breed like a lab or something, and see how long before they’re playing tug of war and cooing at it – hell, even people who view fundies with wary suspicion on principle like me like Joyce by now). Damn it, now she’s attached.
And then the situation with Ryan happens and now all the alarm bells are going off and Sarah just knows – she just knows shit is gonna go down bad. And so now she vows she’s not going to make the same mistake as last time and wait until it’s all a hot mess before doing something. At the first sign of self-implosion, she’s going to jump.
… but Joyce keeps not self-imploding. She’s hurt, yes, but she’s coping.
And then Becky comes, and Joyce has to really defy her parents and upbringing (in a very apparent sense) for the first time in her life (yes, she stood up for Dorothy – but standing up for someone in one conversation is a damn sight different from sleeping in the same bed with someone who is gay – who you were brought up to view as evil and predatory), at the same time as she’s challenging her entire worldview. And Sarah braces herself, waiting for the meltdown. She’s got a million plans by now, for how she’ll break the news to Joyce, how she’ll respond when Joyce explodes, and so on.
… but Joyce keeps coping. She’s not fine, per se, but she’s functional and growing.
And then Toedad happens. And Sarah’s waiting with bated breath, holding her finger over the button, hating that she’s going to have to go through all of it again but determined not to put herself at risk this time.
… and Joyce goes on, still not imploding.
Sarah has been living in ongoing crisis mode since the start of term. She’s so afraid of repeating the Dana situation that she’s making her own Dana situation, entirely in her head.
And by now, she’s probably at the “Oh just get it over with already, I can’t take it anymore!” point and she just wants the meltdown to happen so she can get through a bad situation that only she thinks is going to happen.
… so I wonder how much of her shittiness lately is her subconsciously trying to bring the “inevitable” meltdown and Joyce-breakage on sooner, so she can get over it and on with her term.
That’s a very, very good read and I think you are right.
From where Sara is coming, she is sitting on a bomb, and you can only do that for so long before you start thinking of fiddling with the cables. At least subconsciously she probably tries to poke at Joyce to figure out when the boom is coming.
I would agree. That’s a really good deconstruction of Sarah and I think you might be right about where she’s coming from and why she’s been getting a bit more… erratic of late.
And by that estimation, the Toedad must have felt like that was the line. Hell, Joyce spent a week in a foul mood seemingly immune to attempts to cheer her up and even made comments about everything being broken.
By your assessment, that must have been terrifying for Sarah, because she’s been preparing for months for this collapse that’s “inevitable” and then all of a sudden, it looks like it’s here and she’s worrying at the window and not able to focus on her studies and all of Joyce’s friends are gonna blame her for not doing enough and… as you say, she didn’t implode.
And I can empathize with the worldview. Sometimes when there’s been a lot of passive threats in the world against people like me, I’ll get in a headspace where part of me just wants to get physically attacked so I’ll stop being scared that it will happen any second now.
It seems Sarah has that but with people abandoning her and needing to bail from distracting emotional scenarios and is doing some not entirely okay things to try and induce it to happen sooner.
Because when humans don’t feel like they’re in control, they’ll grasp for anything that seems to give them some measure of it. And sometimes the things they grab onto are really, really unhealthy, for them and others around.
I still hate this bullshit about Sarah being self centered or her mean-girl bullies being remotely right about her. We saw how horrible they are–we’re not supposed to think they’re right.
I mean, Reidah is as bad as Mary. She said bigoted shit to Dina. She goaded Sarah into punching her, and then lied to her boyfriend about the situation to try and make him hate her. She calls her toxic, while treating Sarah absolutely horribly.
Taking what she says as truth is as smart as taking what Mary says as the truth. Sarah was indeed trying to help.
If she were that selfish, we’d have seen it in her other interactions. Instead, she’s always tried to help out Joyce. Here she had a bad reaction, and you explained that perfectly.
So why the need to think she’s a colossal dick? I don’t like it when it’s done to Walky, Danny, Becky, or Carla, and I don’t like it done to Sarah either.
I think ‘self-centered’ in women gets a bad rap – for two reasons: Firstly, there is nothing wrong with taking good care of yourself and your body. A little bit of self-centeredness is not a vice, it’s appropriate self-care. Secondly, ultimately, the bar to be called ‘self-centered’ in a problematic sense for a woman is ridiculously low. Thing is, by our standards for feminine behavior, Sarah is self-centered. But that doesn’t mean her stubborn self-care should be viewed as a character flaw: She gets only one shot at life, after all – making her life the best she can should in fact be a priority for her.
To give an idea of how ridiculous our standards are: I used to get called self-centered for continuing to read in the room with other people, for continuing to study for a midterm I had the next day when one of my roommates decided that the house needed cleaning (backstory: I did an average of 3 hours of chores a day, my roommate did nothing, and I felt I’d banked more than my share of housecleaning hours, plus the midterm was in a course infamous for its first-attempt failure rate of 76%. As in, 76% of students taking it for the first time get an F. And I was on a scholarship and couldn’t afford an F). I’ve also been called self-centered for stating flat-out that I don’t want children, and called self-centered for telling my parents that if they want grandkids so damn much they can speak to my sister as she’s the one who wants children, not me. And I was called self-centered for insisting to a relative who was also a roommate that they not get cats when I’m severely allergic to cats, and for giving away my cats when I discovered that cat ownership was, in fact, slowly killing me. I could go on – but yeah basically any time you put your own well-being, your needs, above anyone else’s convenience or wants in this society as a woman, you’re “self-centered.”
And it’s not just me: I know other women who were called self-centered for such things as continuing their schooling with small children at home, staying at home on Christmas morning rather than packing two children under 4 who don’t travel well up in a car and driving 4 hours to visit the grandparents, trying to study while their roommates want to throw a party, spending their last money before pay day on food rather than a luxury for their partner, not driving 2 hours out of their way for someone without compensation, refusing overtime because of a pre-existing medical appointment, refusing to go to a concert with her boyfriend when she had photosensitive epilepsy and that band’s concerts are notorious for strobe lights, I could go on.
OK, so I am late to this comment and you will probably never see this reply, ischemgeek, but… Holy crap. The things people keep piling on you for no goddamn reason at all, I am in awe that you are not spending every awake minute of your day figuring out how to nuke this planet from orbit and start all over again with intelligent cockroaches.
HUGS! And there is more where that came from, if ever you need them. Don’t give a reason, just reply to any of my comments within the last three days of the comic and ask for one. You’ll get it.
I hate I admit it but I am Sarah. This is exactly what I do when I witness badly timed, unjustified happiness. And seeing it from the outside makes me slowly realize why it’s not that great.
It just seems the logical thing to do. Like, if a tragedy happened and/or someone’s suffering around someone, it doesn’t feel like it’s too polite for the others to not think about it and have fun as if nothing happened.
Y’know, it takes a lot of work to physically do that. You have to practice to stretch the tendon, and even then, you’ve got biology working against you. That finger doesn’t even have its own muscle.
Then again, she’s also suspicious of people who like people Sarah likes. Since Joyce and Sarah both like each other (or at least they did), that would just lead to a recursive feedback loop of mistrust, where the only way out is if one if them stops liking the other…
“… that would just lead to a recursive feedback loop of mistrust, where the only way out is if one if them stops liking the other…”
Thus her driving away Jacob. Ye gods, I love Sarah, she wants to do right, but she’s got issues on top of issues and she needs to be lovingly smacked into getting some therapy for them, because it’s so sad watching her drown in them.
…which says a lot for Willis’ ability to construct these characters.
Wait, how is Joyce fully extending her ring fingers with her middle and pinkie fingers fully curled? I’m pretty sure that’s not possible for any human.
Suprisingly dickish comment from Sarah, there. What would she have preferred, Joyce weeping uncontrollably? Joyce is clearly trying to get on with it, Sarah should be more impressed that Joyce has been ABLE to withstand everything she’s gone through.
1. Sarah, holy SHIT that was a bad one for you.
2. Sarah, I’m thinking reading the comments you REALLY need to talk to someone about this and all the shit you internalize because yeah you are getting to a really bad place with that.
For a web comic that appears to be about learning tolerance and acceptance of others differences and flaws, there’s a surprising lack of that by many in it’s comment section. Yes, Sarah just did something stupid because she’s just as screwed up as Amber. Or Ruth. Or Joyce. Or almost everyone in this comic. Or many of us here!
Sarah says something stupid and some are ready go all Raidah on her without waiting for any possible explanation or apology.
It reminds me of the up-side of living alone on a mountaintop. Otherwise some here would have already come for me with pitchforks and torches for things I’ve said in the past with no intent to be mean or harmful.
normally id agree but theres her telling dina shes just a rebound (dick move) then being told by dinah that shes being pretty rude and to tone it down and then she does this 5 seconds later like… idk maybe its bc im dealing w/ the same stuff joyce is (friend killing herself) and im trying to cope and laugh so no one knows how sad i am and honestly if i heard someone say that to me id be so upset id just collapse and stop functioning i wouldnt be able to respond id just go numb bc fuck am i hurting and fuck do i want to just stop living and lay in bed and stare at my ceiling and smiling and pretending im not hurting makes it soooo much worse and its just… this is what sarah does and its really hurtful and cruel and it needs to stop honestly? like if she were my friend she wouldnt be after pulling this kinda stunt its just… yeah i def feel for joyce rn which is very weird bc usually i find her alienating but yeah
I don’t see it. The presence of strong feelings on the subject, one way or the other, doesn’t seem to have prevented a polite discussion.
I see people who are really mad at her for doing something really shitty to someone close to her, I see people who think Sarah should go fudge herself, and I see people Sarah clearly rubs the wrong way who don’t like her. There’s even some people who think Joyce was being weird and Sarah wasn’t all that out of line. I’m actually most inclined to disagree with the last stance, but they all seem like legitimate reactions to me.
I might feel that Sarah is a good person deep down, and is just struggling with some unresolved issues causing her to lash out without meaning to hurt, but even if that’s true (and everyone agreed (which they don’t)) that doesn’t mean she’s entitled to automatic forgiveness. I only forgive her because I assume that in future strips, we’ll see her earn it by apologizing and trying to fix her behavior. If she doesn’t, I’m going to end up in the “Sarah’s a horrible person camp” as well. I don’t think people who aren’t willing to make that call tell they see it happen are being intolerant. They’re being pragmatic. Cautious. Neither of which is a character flaw.
I don’t even think that anyone who already didn’t like Sarah feels that way because they’re less tolerant than I am. Not every flaw should just be accepted. If you judge each person and each flaw on a case-by-case basis, and are willing to re-evaluate your conclusions should new evidence arise, and still don’t like someone, I’d say you’ve done your due diligence. Feel free to dislike and/or avoid interaction with that person, although probably don’t curse at them on the internet if the person isn’t fictional.
But they have to be less tolerant. They aren’t tolerating things that you tolerate.
I also think this blase attitude towards dislike is not good for the world. That’s just another way of saying you have a lack of empathy for people. It should not be something taken lightly.
Sure, this is a comic, so it’s not as important. But, in real life? If you dislike someone, I expect to find out they really are a horrible person. And not someone like Sarah who still genuinely cares about people, but is a bit anti-social.
Not that I see many people here who do dislike Sarah. They mostly just seem to be saying she was a jerk here. And, yeah, she was. The couple who said they dislike her I hope were just having the same reaction I was, where I thought I disliked her for a bit, until I remembered how good she can be.
Of course, I can say this all I want, and it won’t change anyone else. But I genuinely do think this is a major problem in the world.
Disliking someone is not a horrible thing. Hate might be, but simply disliking at least some people is to be expected. There’s lots of them, and even some of the good, nice, friendly ones may end up rubbing you the wrong way for whatever reason.
What matters more (in my opinion) is why you dislike them, and how disliking someone affects how you treat them. If you dislike somebody for superficial shit like skin color or orientation or gender, etc, then yeah, that reflects poorly on you. But if you just find their personality boring or irksome, that seems reasonable to me. A byproduct of everyone being different is that not everyone is necessarily going to enjoy hanging out with everyone else. This is fine. We don’t all need to be friends to get along.
As for what happens when you dislike someone, avoiding or minimizing interactions with someone you find irksome seems entirely benign. Especially if you try to be nice (or not antagonistic at least) when you do end up talking to them. Going around trying to poison their other relationships (like Raidah), or going out of your way to be cruel, that would make you a horrible garbage person.
From what I’ve seen, she’s take aback that Joyce has come back in a good mood despite the difficult, emotionally draining time she’s had recently, and to retaliate has made some shitty comment about how she doesn’t care about Billie because she can still have a joke with one of her friends. Sarah doesn’t mean it, she hasn’t visited Billie herself, but she wanted to bring her back down because that just what Sarah does.
Joyce’s reaction is perfectly justified here, seriously Sarah come on
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gonna guess I’m not alone in wishing I could stop being judged by someone else’s standards
whast in the fuck that wasn’t what I wanted to type
But it is what was sent.
What did you want to type?
Maybe it was… A GHOST!
Haha… hubris.
Anyone else subconsciously read this in Stephen Colbert’s voice?
So is it a case of:
Tomorrow’s Comment, Today!
or
Tomorrow’s Comment, Today?
That is eerily thematic with Sarah in this strip. That panel 3 definitely looks like, “whast in the fuck that wasn’t what i wanted to day”
Damn, I copy-pasted the wrong hot take!
Damn, I used the wrong email address… who the hell is this suppose to be?
Agatha. You know, the tall Mormon gal?
Thanks.
Hahaha
Freudian Typing!
Sarah just can’t help but bring up bad stuff
“I’m flipping you the burr.”
“You mean ‘bird.'”
“I’m not quite to bird.”
Joyce is flipping her the dinosaur. It will become the bird, after several million years of evolution.
Imagine all of the ring fingers overflowing in Joyce’s internal trash bin.
One does not “flip” the dinosaur, one <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYKupOsaJmk"walks the dinosaur.
+1 Internets to you, sir!
This is Dina’s new favorite thing and she doesn’t even know it yet
Depends on how you define bird.
Burrs stick to your clothes, and thus have more long-term impact.
“You can’t flip the Burr! You don’t even know Alexander Hamilton.”
*dodges playbills*
Sir!
Really, Sarah just needs to talk less, smile more.
Both halves of that sentiment are a slightly gross, as worded.
I was trying to make a joke on the fact that Ana called the ring fingers “flipping the Burr” and “talk less, smile more” was Burr’s intentionally skeevy catchphrase in “Hamilton.”
oic. I haven’t seen that yet, so I didn’t get it
Not really. This advice would be gross if casually directed at a random woman because she is a woman. This is specifically being directed at Sarah because she is being an unhappy misanthrope who just bluescreened her supposed friend just to maintain her incorrect view that everyone in the world is a piece of cr*p like she secretly believes herself to be.
I fail to see how talking even less and forcing a smile would address those issues. If anything, she needs to talk more, specifically about how she actually feels.
Fuck smiling, takes too much effort to maintain.
In this case, though she needs to be talking to a therapist not unloading on her friend who has been running interference for her best friend all weekend.
Man, I’ve veen listening to that sound track Non-Stop.
Let the cusses ring (finger) out, Joyce!
Somebody has to be the bearer of bad news around there.
There’s a time to be Tigger and a time to be Eeyore. For Sarah, it’s always Eeyore Time.
There’s never a time to be Rabbit though. Owl, however, is cool whenever.
I think I’m Rabbit. Guess I’m out of time.
BISY
BACK SON
?
A friend and I were just discussing how nearly everyone in the Hundred Acre Wood seems to personify a mental illness or disorder, but that also everyone still loves them. (Eeyore: depression. Tigger: Mania, or possibly AD/HD. Rabbit, OCD. Piglet, generalized anxiety. Pooh: binge eating. Kanga and Roo seem normative, and Christopher Robin is either schizophrenic or terminally boring.)
I forgot Owl. He could be an Aspie. He’s great.
in china the pinkie finger means the same as the middle finger (as I’ve heard)Link to refrence – http://traditions.cultural-china.com/en/214Traditions9848.html
Yeah, I wondered why she didn’t just do that. Though pulling off a full extension of just the ring fingers is pretty impressive.
You basically have to put your middle finger up as well if you want full extension (ie, both knuckles elevated).
For the Iranians, it’s a thumb up.
IN UK it is the two-fingered peace sign, but backwards. In our USAF briefing, they advised us to make sure it is facing the right direction “when ordering two beers, etc”.
Sounds like a sound briefing. Did you learn any other good tips? We normally don’t say “thank you, driver.” when getting off of a bus because the driver part seems uncomfortable, but most people do say “cheers” or “thanks”. (Unless they’re ingrates I guess) 😀
I can’t help but compare her to Davan from Something Positive. Both of them have a bit of a glass half empty view of the world and like to rain on everyone’s parade.
graduation day will be when she finally says “fuck”
If the very last DoA strip is just Joyce saying fuck, the journey will have been well worth it.
Preferably after she looses her virginity.
1AM rant time: I hate the way we say someone ‘loses’ their virginity. I suppose it’s probably accurate more often than I’d like to believe, but ideally – and, it’s to be hoped, a vast majority of the time – ‘giving up’ one’s virginity is more the case than losing it. We live in an age where education lets a lot of people make informed decisions on how to treat their bodies, so it’s something that seems like it should be at least on some level knowingly set aside, not misplaced or stolen.
I plan to release my virginity into the wild as soon as it has been radio collared for tracking purposes and a suitable habitat has been found.
Are you saying your virginity is endangered?
Virginity is a meaningless and heteronormative social construct anyway.
Seriously? Virginity isn’t hetero-anything. It just means that you haven’t had sex yet, there’s no mention of what gender either member of the act is. It’s also not meaningless, though I don’t hold to the idea that the loss of virginity somehow makes anyone soiled or lesser, virgins do not have sexual experience and it is worth KNOWING that to ensure that you pay extra attention to helping and guiding around the weird, awkward, and sometimes painful situations that arise the first few times.
I’d really love it if the internet at large could come away from trying to tear everything down and just focus on actually damaging things.
It’s a bit heteronormative in that one widespread traditional formulation of the concept regarding heterosexual relations, as excludes non-PIV sex as “counting” as having sex, has no direct analogue for any other combination of genders.
It kinda is though. Think about a lesbian couple. How do they lose their virginity? in a world where there is a line between virgin and not, how does a lesbian ever lose her virginity?
By having oral, manual, anal, or phallic sex with someone else, just like everybody else.
Only Christians trying to remain technically pure think only PIV counts. And lesbians can use strap-ons, if they want.
trlkly: Hey now, lets not be excluding footjobs.
It depends on how you define “virgin”. Even ignoring its original definition (which most people do, since we use it when referring to men), the line is much clearer for heterosexuals. A universally applicable (and in my opinion, obvious) definition would be “someone who has never engaged in any kind of sex with another person”
But a lot of people only want to use the traditional definition and only count it as sex if there’s peen-in-vageen happening, because they want to be able to have other kinds of sex and still call themselves chaste, as if that’s fooling anyone. This definition is even more hetero-normative than the original, because you can only lose your virginity through heterosexual sex.
People who place value on the pretense of not having any fun with their genitals tend to cling to the more traditional definition, while I think people with actual sense are moving towards the more generic definition.
A friend wrote a very good post on the stupid idea that having sex somehow lessens a woman’s worth that you may be interested in:
https://mainer74.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/decoding-slut/
at least nobody said “v-card”.
ugh.
Speaking seriously… Have you ever seen the James Garner film Support Your Local Gunfighter? At the end, Jack Elam gives a hilarious monologue about what happens to the characters after the end of the film. I’d like for the last chapter of DoA to be an epilogue with someone… maybe Mike… to give just such a “Now how this story ends is like this…” for all the characters.
Yes, good film. The same thing is done for American Graffiti and Animal House. “What, he got killed?”
Well duh, Graduation Day is the storyline where they tell you Slobo is dying, plus kill off a buch of Titans and members of Young Justice. Everybody swears when they read that.
I officially consider Graduation Day the point where DC started to lose me.
DC started to lose me when I first read a Superman story, but honestly, that’s just because Superman is pretty much everything I’m not looking for in a story, so… it’s really a wonder I ever got attached to some of the other characters.
Identity Crisis basically ruined comics as far as I’m concerned.
It caused a years long plague of grimdark fetishizing that Rob Liefeld could only dream of, and it’s an era we are only now starting to come out of.
Once upon a time… The Red Skull got ahold of the Crimson Colander long enough to give Captain America his own appearance. So Cap spent the next 6 or so issues running from his buddies going, “Hey! It’s me! Really! Oww!!” When he finally got a breathing space, he thought, “How could the Red Skull have done that? It’s not possible. So it didn’t happen.”
Then he reached up and pulled the mask off…
And Marvel…
When Professor Xavier died: “Yes, kids, he’s really dead. And no, he’s not coming back.”
Riiight.
Now ask me about Power Girl.
I was shaking with rage after reading that…whatever it was.
And now the end of doa a portal will open and the world will be invaded by fucks. Fucks. Will rule
And then the Walkyverse and Dumbiverse versions of the characters team up to combat the soggy-fuck alliance?
in 2052
That’s… cute, Joyce.
Next time Sarah speaks, Joyce tries to do the jerkoff motion, but it just looks like this.
By becoming more wordly, Joyce’s accidental lude gestures have inverted into inability to form them at all.
Not sure Joyce even knows what that means.
She’s looked up weiners (for artistic reference, you understand), and Ethan accidentally informed her that dude smut exists.
If she doesn’t know yet, it’s only a matter of time. Here’s hoping her parents aren’t monitoring her phone’s browser activity.
I worry that Becky will not know how to hide the stuff she is looking up on Joyce’s phone.
(She can’t look at that stuff on Dina’s phone, too soon in relationship.)
I assume Joyce knows about the erase history function. Becky seems savvy enough to know it and use it on Joyce’s phone. This is assuming the university does not block porn sites for security reasons.
I consider myself reasonably tech-savvy and I wouldn’t even know how to monitor my own phone’s browser activity non-locally.
Becky seems hungrier for all of the outside world, I suspect she was at a younger age. She seems like the kid who would ask inconvenient questions to the teacher. I can see her stashing away allowance money and hiding parts of her life (not just sexuality). Learning how to erase your internet history is one way to do it. In a homeschool group it would be so much harder to do so.
Although It would make more sense that her computer access was limited and there were child safe settings on her ISP. (As a queer kid from a conservative small town open internet access and getting information was vital. Friends helped each other).
It also occurs to me that Becky’s mom was likely slightly less fundie than her dad. Nothing to base that on other than a hunch.
Sarah:”Why are you doing the Monkey dance from Johnny Bravo?”
Joyce:”Who?”
“He’s like a blond version of Joe except dumber, Elvisy voiced, and a complete moma’s boy.”
Johnny: *eyebrow*
And then the gears shifted.
Who recorded that song about putting a ring on it? It’s not in my record collection. :/
You can leeeave your hat on~~
wait, wrong track.
Beyonce!
All the Single Ladies by Beyoncé, right?
*lends Stephen his I Am… Sasha Fierce album*
I believe it was the Chipettes.
Also, the dwarves in Lord of the Rings, probably.
If you dis it, gonna point a ring at it?
…wait, what, Sarah?
What an unnecessary thing to say.
Seriously, Sarah. You’re being a dick.
Seriously. What the hell, Sarah?
Yeah, she just out and stated it. Mike would have done it in such a way she reached the conclusion herself.
Sarah’s always a huge dick. There’s being a pessimist and then there’s being a pessimist to the point where it’s exhausting to be friends with her, and Sarah’s been the latter for almost the entire strip.
Right?
No. Sarah has not been a dick the whole strip. Even being extremely pessimistic does not make you a dick.
She’s being a dick by deliberately trying to make Joyce unhappy. She’s deliberately treating her poorly. It’s at the same level as when Joyce asked if she was going to rat out Becky like she did Dana.
Pfft. I thought Sarah was a jerk before it was cool.
Joyce is rebelling…..just not that hard
Compared to Joyce at the start of the comic, she’s practically sporting a neck tattoo.
Wow….really Sarah ….just….really….
Well that seems super unnecessary and hateful.
I mean, at least Sarah’s expression shows that she immediately realizes she crossed a line, but damn… that was so far over the line she’s now in the next fucking state. Just can’t stand to be wrong, so you’ve got to go the extra mile and make Joyce unhappy yourself, huh, Sarah?
It’s kind of a weird angst/anger at the world thing. “I’m sad and miserable; why isn’t everyone else sad and miserable? Well I’ll shame them into being sad and miserable!”
I didn’t know that was even physically possible.
I was going to say, how is she doing this?
I can do it with my right hand, but it’s a huge strain.
The strain is unbearable, but she’s doing it as hard as she can.
Her cast hand is gonna be so sore in the morning.
Bonus points for the Mooninites reference!
Thanks.
Fun. I Just tried, can do with my left (holding the pinky with my thumb) but not at all on the right … ?
She must have practiced a lot in order to not flick people off!
It is one of those things that some, but not all people can do. And certainly even fewer, it seems, can do it on both hands. Making it double impressive that Joyce can.
Speaking of things everyone cannot do: Most women can sit down and double-cross their legs (First thigh over second thigh, then first ankle behind second ankle) while most men cannot. I am a man that can do this.
I’ve actually won a few bets on doing this (only for a non-alcoholic beverage, and if they had refused, I wouldn’t have pushed it, since I knew I would win and it therefore was less of a bet and more of a trick).
Wait, most dudes can’t do that? That’s got to be just a matter of not stretching and losing flexibility, because it’s a pretty simple contortion.
It is a flexibility thing. I am a woman who cannot do it. I also can’t do most yoga poses or even properly sit cross-legged (so-called “Indian-style”) anymore. I lost most of my flexibility after a back injury when I was 19, and I lost the rest of it by the time I was 30.
Apparently, it is a matter of thigh bone placement relative to hips. Women tend to have wider hips.
…Huh. Deja Vu.
Flipping the ring fingers?!? Holy shit, that’s impressive. I dare you, commenters, to try that. YOU’LL FIND IT’S NOT SO EASY.
If you’re pissed off enough to flip the rings, that takes a special kind of investment in your gesture
I can do it! On the other hand (pun totally intended,) if I’m gonna curse you out, it’s gonna direct, blunt and verbal. Why waste time with fingers you might not see if I can speak with more specificity?
I can do it, but I admit it doesn’t feel very natural.
I tried immediately after reading the comic. It is actually more difficult than one would think. Probably why human culture decided not to attach meaning to flipping your ring fingers.
I can do it pretty easily if I hold my other fingers down with my thumb, although I’m not sure if that counts.
Even then I can’t do it. The ring finger just follows them down, and if I hold it up while clenching the others down, the middle still elevates a little.
No wonder tight-knit spear formations were called phalanges. These fingers do not want to move independently.
I can do it with my left hand but not my right. The stupid right pinky insists on following his friend.
I believe this is because the sinews (or tendons, I always get those confused) of the ring finger and its friend starts out as one somewhere in the hand, but then splits. Whereas the other fingers are more separate to begin with.
So, does that mean I accidentally screwed up the sinew/tendon on my left hand? Cause the left pinky and ring fingers are more comfortable with putting more distance between themselves in this friendship metaphor for dexterity.
It means we are all fucked up, Rukduk. That is what it means.
(Actually, I have no idea what it means. And I too can do it with only my left ring finger.)
I also might be getting words/terms wrong, but I do believe I have the general concept right. The tendons that control three of your fingers (thumb, index, middle) are located on your hand, while the ones that control the other two (ring and pinkie) are located in your forearm. They pass thru a joint/bone/something referred to carpal tunnel, and I believe tend to be linked for some motions naturally.
The whole carpal tunnel syndrome thing stems from those tendons rubbing up against the inside/sides of said tunnel, happening by moving those fingers while the wrists are angled. Most likely occurs from keyboard use, s`why those fancy angled ones exist. I think pain/movement is likened to arthritis as well, though that could be an incorrect assumption.
Same here! I can pull it off to a decent degree on my left, but it doesn’t feel natural at all in my right.
I KNOW!!!! TALENT!!!
Yeah, I tried after seeing the comic and now my fingers ache. 😛
I can do it with both hands, but it doesn’t feel natural and the other fingers don’t stay as clenched as they do when actually flipping the bird.
I did it with both hands! It feels somewhat natural to me because I have dextrous fingers (played violin forever and currently a baker). I actually did this once sometime between 8th and 10th grade thinking it was the right way to do it. I was known as the innocent one for the longest. Also because I turned red at anything remotely sexual, didn’t curse, …you know, the usual stuff.
you just have to hold back the other ones with the top part of your palm
Hmm, strange, I can do it without any problems at all, with either hand.
When I try to do it one-handed (i.e. without the aid of the other hand or an object in positioning my fingers) I can do it but it *hurts*.
Baby bird?
It’s about individual differences. Different people have their finger tendons connected in different ways. Which is why some can do the contortions needed to play certain instruments, while others can’t do it without surgery.
We can have different feelings about more than one thing in rapid succession, sheesh.
Indeed, it’s called being human.
Sarah doesn’t even want to be acting like that…
I feel like I would prefer if she was more confident about it, cause then at least she’d be more understandable. Now it’s some weird tick that I don’t know how to deal with.
It’s definitely something she’s been dealing with a lot this last weekend.
I wonder if she’s got some PTSD flashbacks from trying to help Dana she’s going through and part of her is trying to push away anyone who tries to get close to her so she doesn’t have to go through that again…
I dunno, I’m grasping at straws, because these outbursts are starting to become a pattern and I think she’s as horrified by them as most of the comment thread is.
To me, it almost feels like she’s not actually expecting her outbursts to hurt other people -they’re an extension of her “everyone’s a jerk (especially me, but at least I’m forthright about it)” philosophy, and historically, when she’s said things like this, I imagine she’s gotten something along the lines of “whatever, bongo” or silence or a glare, but this is the first time in her life she’s been in a position where there were people who looked up to her. She’s doing the reflexive lashout to push them away, without realizing that they see her as not only companion, but mentor and friend, and is horrified not by what she says, but by how hurt they are, forgetting that she can do that.
Not saying I agree with how she’s putting these or the text in them -just throwing my hat in the ring on inside-the-skull guesswork.
As I’ve already posted elsewhere on today’s board, I’m starting to wonder if it is a neurotic thing on Sarah’s part: “I’m sad and miserable all the time; why isn’t everyone sad and miserable all the time in this shitty world? How dare they pretend to be happy? I’ll shame them into being sad and miserable all the time, just like they should be!”
So, is Sarah just incapable of allowing anyone else to be happy because she’s so fuckin’ miserable?
i mean… yeah, kind of
Man, only on my left hand can I give someone the ringfinger bird. I envy Joyce for being ambi-ring-bird-dextrous.
Now try lining up your fingers (one per hand) and rotating them in opposite, parallel circles.
OK, I tried several variations of that just in case I misunderstood what you meant. They were all easy to do.
Now what?
I think he means to have them rotate in the same direction, not relative to you, but each hand. Either that or your just far my ambidextrous than I.
Like I said, I tried many different combinations, and I think that was one of them.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Di7EoB5CGOs
This is the movement I meant.
Yep, tried that. Easy as heck.
How dare Joyce not feel bad all the time about things that are completely out of her control. Who does she think she is, anyway?
Sarah can’t stand Joyce’s ability to be happy.
Sarah can’t understand Joyce’s ability to be happy.
Relief at not being surrounded by assholes sometimes makes you forget the pain of others. That doesn’t mean you’re an asshole, too.
It also doesn’t mean you’re not an asshole either.
Sarah’s just gotta take big honking, sweaty shits all over everything at every opportunity, huh?
I…kinda get what Sarah is doing, because this is a huge repeat of what happened with Dana, when everyone just put on a happy face and ignored that there was a problem.
I think she misread Joyce here, but I totally understand her wanting to remind people “no really, we have a problem here.”
What a dick
I like how sarah is riding Joyce for not acting concerned about billie when sarah didnt even care enough about billie or ruth to go to the hospital
The alt text pretty clearly implied she was scared, but didn’t think she was allowed to invite herself along with Joyce’s dad.
Sarah actually DOES have a point, in that Joyce isn’t very…affected by this. Last time Billie was upset, Joyce was worried about her being depressed. And she’s shown concern before. I think Joyce doesn’t quite realize how bad Billie, and by extension Ruth, are. Which, seeing how Joyce doesn’t even know how Becky’s mom really died, I can’t blame her. The girl is probably happy to have some levity just by talking with Dorothy like old times. The weekend wasn’t as bad as we thought it’d be, but it’s still been a hard one for her. Joyce deserves a small moment of peace, but I can’t quite get angry at Sarah for being curious about Joyce being…not-Joyce about Billie.
Sarah just needs to learn how to speak ’emotionally compassionate human’. “How are you Joyce? You must have had a very rough weekend, I have been concerned. I am worried about Billie as well, I know she is your friend, are you alright?”. Alas, the title is dumbingofage for a reason.
Joyce is still basically confident about authority figures. Billie’s now where she can get professional supervision and help. Less placed on Joyce’s plate. More than that, though, she’s glad too be home and around her friends, nobody got yanked out of school, it’s such a relief.
*glad to be home, I mean; I can have grammar.
Mostly it’s just that people can feel various things in rapid succession, and that didn’t make any of the feelings less intense or less valid.
Absolutely true! Joyce does indeed deserve some peace because she’s had an awful week, she really has. On top of a very…varied month(?) of school. She’s also just extremely happy to see Dorothy again, which makes me feel better about those two considering how hostile Joyce was with her on Friday.
It’s also that providing emotional support for a suicidal person is emotionally exhausting and doing self-care with goofiness and laughter and catching up with friends who are not suicidal is a key part of recovering that emotional energy so you can continue to support said person.
Like, if you weren’t allowed to laugh or smile until a suicidal person was out of crisis, most people providing emotional support would burn out long before said suicidal person even saw hope of one day being out of crisis.
I can struggle with that aspect myself, AKA if I think a friend is suicidal I kinda get wrapped up and throw my whole being into it to try and help. But I’ll freely admit that that’s my character flaw. I struggle with saying no, doing stuff for myself, disappointing people. I will say for Billie, we’ve mostly just seen Walky and Becky’s reaction to it, not so much Joyce. Has Joyce even really talked to her yet? Doesn’t help that Billie isolated herself to Ruth’s room of course, and I completely understand wanting space from that. I’ve spent the last two years struggling to assist a friend who was depressed and caught in a self-destructive loop somewhat like Billie and unfortunately I had to just cut ties because that friend began to change, and wouldn’t talk to me about what was going on. I guess I know how Alice felt regarding Billie, ahaha. Hopefully Billie’s therapy sessions will help…
That’s… really bringing into focus how few options Sarah’s found for self-care.
Hi yes this.
A few times when I’ve had suicidal friends/relatives, I’ve run into the Martyr who wants to make this other person’s crisis All About Them (y’know, “Oh woe is me that Person X is sick. Woe, woe, woe. Truly, this is the defining tragedy of mine life*” and huge show about how loving and supportive they are when other people are looking and nothing when they’re not because it’s not actually support they want to give, it’s the appearance of support), who seems to get personally offended by the idea of anyone being able to have fun or lighten up for a bit when there’s an ongoing crisis.
Martyr folks like that are to be avoided at a time like this, lest your own mental health take a tailspin – there’s nothing wrong with self-care, and it’s really shitty to shame someone for it.
*And hey different people have different ways of coping so if the woe is me thing helps you cope I’m all for it but I’m not talking garden-variety woe is me thing I’m talking the person who will, in the middle of someone else having a mental health crisis, to that person’s face, will reframe the situation as being all about them. “Don’t you know how much this hurts me?” and use it to get attention from other people and who will sometimes try to sabotage the recovery of the ill person so they can get more attention longer and continue playing the victim and etc etc. People like that exist, I have a first-degree relative who is one, and that’s the kind of person I’m talking about. Same type that would take me (a childhood brittle asthmatic) to a smoking restaurant so they could then act the martyr when an attack landed me in hospital (I am old enough that when I was a kid, a “non-smoking zone” was a half-dozen tables in the far corner of a room with the same poor ventilation so you were getting just as much second-hand smoke as anyone else there – and I was in my teens before they banned smoking in restaurants altogether – which I’m super happy for because else I would literally be risking my life every time I go into a restaurant or grocery store).
Blech, sorry you had to deal with that incredibly selfish relative.
For a hopefully even more extreme version of this impulse, to endanger a kid’s health so you can be a martyr, there’s Münchausen’s Syndrome by proxy.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen_syndrome_by_proxy
Counter argument:
Did *Sarah* go to the hospital/student health center to check up on Billie?
No?
Then there’s a very log sticking out of her eye that she needs to deal with, ‘for she starts complaining about the speck in Joyce’s.
Very true, I doubt Sarah’s visited Billie. Though they also aren’t friends, unlike Joyce and Billie. Even if they were friends though, I doubt Sarah would visit. Not because she’s an asshole but because she’s an anti-social person. It does sound like she’s complaining, but I don’t think that was her intent. Though Sarah doesn’t need to pick at that wound, no.
Sarah’s never expressed fondness for Billie.
Joyce has.
Others have already said it, but it seems to me like she might have been wondering why Joyce wasn’t more apparently concerned. Unfortunately she proceeded to Sarah any attempt at a gesture of support.
The most horrifying, terrible, awful day of Sarah is going to be when she realizes she’s not a world-weary cynical mature adult but a moody Goth teenager who wears colors.
Ooh-hoo, CHEMICAL burn!
Ah, yes, the ring finger flip-off. If you can do it without using your thumbs to hold down your fingers you’ve got excellent digit flexibility.
I…kinda feel bad for those that feel the need to practice that.
“I’m technically not flipping you off!”
“Your intent says otherwise.”
“Jeepers Creepers, go fudge yourself!”
“Still doing it.”
I can do it, but in my left hand, it’s actually painful, and I only get about half elevation.
Oh Sarah, ever the downer.
2nd Panel Joyce: Ohhhh, you fucked up.
2nd Panel Sarah: I Fucked Up.
Seriously, I love how she immediately regrets it. She’s a good friend, if a somewhat difficult one.
Come on, Sarah, a vast majority of the time I’m on your side, but this is just unnecessary. Joyce has been through enough recently. If she’s able to be happy at all, just let her be. Also, she’s not in any way responsible for what’s going on with Billie, so don’t guilt-trip her about it.
Waaaat.
I know it’s bad, but why is everybody judging Sarah? She takes this way seriously, and it’s hurting all of her friends, but Joyce hasn’t shown signs of it phasing her, which tends to piss off people who think it’s apathy. (You know, that thing Sarah keeps pretending she can do.) Sire, she shouldn’t have said it outright, but Sarah’s used to a Joyce that probably would’ve ignored Billie and Ruth as sinners, so some concern about her lack of reaction was to be expected.
So, yeah, bad move, but it’s not like she became Mary or anything.
*Sure (No sires here.)
Glad I’m not the only one who observed that.
It might help if anyone had brought Sarah up to date. The last she heard, Joyce’s good friend Billie was suicidal and in the Health Center. If that were still true, Joyce’s cheery attitude would be questionable. So Sarah questioned it.
No, she made a snide, hurtful remark. Though I do agree that she probably wanted to just ask, but her need to hide her concern overpowered her and this is what came out of her mouth instead.
But people not providing you (unprompted) with all the information you might want, or not emoting how/when you think they should, does not excuse being an asshole, even though I hope Joyce will forgive her for this.
Yeah, Joyce should probably forgive her since, as Cerberus and Bagge pointed out down below, Joyce said something just as hurtful to Sarah the week before.
Joyce is good at forgiving. I’m sure they will be fine.
I think that will be Joyce’s natural inclination, though I think she’s also been sitting on some anger so I wouldn’t put it past Joyce to read her the riot act first.
Deflecting with a joke could have a good lead in to getting answers.
Working my way down to those comments as well.
This is about the nastiest thing she’s ever said to Joyce, and she’s pretty clearly affected by it. It might be cute, but even attempting to give someone the finger is a still big deal for Joyce.
I like Sarah a lot, but I think that, plus the way this feels completely in-character for her, makes me more mad at her for it. I don’t hate her, but I’m super cheesed
Same. She’s clearly trying to ask Joyce how she’s feeling. She definitely could have done a better job, but it’s definitely not indicative someone who doesn’t care for people’s feelings at all.
Because everyone considers this Joyce’s story, for some reason. That seems to mean only her feelings are valid.
Calling this a dick move and condemning Sarah as a person for it are not the same thing.
But a large number of commentors ARE condemning Sarah for one stupid thing she said then appeared to regret immediately. We sure are a judgmental bunch. We have met the enemy and they are us.
I’m just catching up, but I’m firmly on Team Sarah has earned a lot over the years and am willing to wait a few strips to see if this is just her in a fuck state or if she just said something immensely fucked up and will be quickly trying to apologize.
Haha, I’ve noticed the judginess, too. I’ve partaken myself, but then I think it’s really easy to forget your own mistakes and jump on another person. It’s definitely not only this comment board, though. I think it’s something popping up in the larger society.
People get burned on Facebook, other social media platforms, anything you say can and WILL be used against you, and the people are your court of law. Once upon a time, you’d say something stupid or shitty, people would call you out on it, you’d feel whatever you need to feel, and then you’d pretty much never do it again. Now, a random person can film you, or put you on blast on the internet, and you’d basically have a label for the next few weeks to months to years.
There’s something about the internet that makes it easier to judge someone really harshly, and there’s something about about it that allows us here to share deeply personal things, be loving and understand and support each other.
It’s a double edged sword, because many people reap the benefits (I reap the benefits on this forum!), but there’s also not a lot of room to make mistakes (sometimes big ones) and learn from them. So a lot of people just pretend to be perfect and surround themselves only with like minded people, to the point that it really creates a stagnancy in the growth of character. Again, not talking about this particular forum, just a lot of the different programs and forums I’ve watched and experienced. Sorry for being off topic too.
Don’t apologize, that’s a clear statement of a point that’s important and relevant to this forum. It’s a little meta, but meta discussion can be necessary.
Kinda reminds me of how assorted humor sites, image boards, and such (4chan and tumblr spring to mind) always have a few people who love to scream about how inferior all those other sites are, when they’re pretty much all the same thing – a bunch of folks celebrating interests ranging from the mainstream to the niche and dorky, plus everything in between (and porn of everything along the scale), just in different formats.
I disagree but mainly because I think Sarah’s kind of a huge asshole in general. I know people irl who are exactly like her (ie – cynical and pessimistic to the point where they constantly need to bring others down with them) and they are incredibly toxic and absolutely miserable people to be around. Sarah didn’t say this out of concern for Billie (who she made no effort to see in the hospital, so she’s in no position to make shitty remarks to Joyce), she said it because she’s so miserable that she can’t bear to see someone being happier/more optimistic than she is.
Assholes don’t exist in a vacuum.
There’s almost always a reason someone acts that way. Not necessarily something that excuses their behavior, but usually something that at least explains part of it.
In Sarah’s case, we know she’s not an entirely toxic person. The lengths she went to to protect Joyce at that party was enough to earn her the benefit of a doubt, at least for now.
Oh i 100% see why Sarah is the way she is, but tbh I still think her behavior is super toxic. She’s capable of doing kind things (ie- the party) and I think she genuinely cares about Joyce, but she also needs to seriously improve her worldview and how she treats people because more often than not she can be seriously emotionally abusive and judgmental.
I’ll also fully admit to being biased here, I had a friend in high school who was exactly like Sarah and they were awful to be around & being friends with them was emotionally exhausting. Being a cynic is one thing but when it reaches this point it’s really not healthy to have people like that in your life; hopefully Sarah does serious growing
We’re pissed at Sarah because she has enough context clues to figure out that Joyce has had a really shitty weekend, and instead of realizing that Joyce desperately needs to decompress she piles on more nastyness. This isn’t kicking someone when they’re down, it’s kicking them while they are trying to get back up
I can’t decide whether Sarah just can’t understand how badly Joyce needs to put off worrying about Billie for her own emotional health right now, or if she really is so cynical that she thinks she’s finally seen proof that even Joyce doesn’t really care about other people and her mistrust of everyone was justified all along.
Dang it, Sarah! You’re better than this!
Judging by what she’s just said, no she’s not.
At this point, I think Sarah has Downer Tourettes – she literally can’t prevent herself from pointing out something depressing in a situation.
Yeah, but the depressing things are getting more and more inaccurate. Whether it be her comments about Joyce never being happy again or Dina just being a rebound to Becky and not someone she can fully love or this.
Like, right now, she needs to slow down and deal with maybe whatever is going on that’s making her feel she needs to lash out at people’s happiness before trying to people (and we’re back to everyone needs a therapist of Age).
Contrary to the title, the therapist doesn’t need to be of age, just sufficiently well informed and helpful.
There is no joy like that of a child’s laughter?
You don’t say?
I do wonder what is making her see the negative in everything. Maybe she is functionally depressed? Maybe something happened to her and she can’t see the world any other way for a while..
The Dina-Becky thing is not an uncommon possibility though. It’s depressing as hell, but it was a possibility. I’ve seen it happen when I was in college. You’re not using the person per say, but you just don’t realize how much of the relationship is an emotional crutch until you get to a better place and you realize that you just “needed” them, rather than “wanting” them as whole person. I totally agree with you on the Joyce thing though.
I’m actually really curious myself. Like, I imagine a big part of it is the fallout from Dana. I mean, she took a big risk for herself and got majorly emotionally tangled with a friend group and trying to support a person in crisis and the person ended up in a bad place and her friends spent better part of a year harassing her over it. That’s gonna fuck up anyone.
But I agree, that doesn’t feel like all that’s going on or the central cause of her cynicism and fatalism and need to rain on parades. I think you might be on to something with the depression thing. Honestly, she probably could have used talking to a therapist months ago.
Indeed. Living with a roommate in crisis can be stressful and scary. And calling the campus authorities for them must come with an incredible amount of guilt and baggage, and questions, especially for a college aged person, when the last thing you want, even if you’re Sarah, is to piss off everyone around you and end up lonely.
It’s like, when you think about it, she’s a sophomore living with freshmen. Most sophomores are living with other sophomores at my college, unless Sarah was just unlucky in the room lottery. Why haven’t we seen more people from her year around her?
That is interesting. I believe I heard that Carla is year two, but is everyone else here year one? And if it’s uncommon or rare for a cross year roommate situation, then why here? Is there a story there? And what would it be? Primarily Sarah, Joyce, or both?
From my recollection, the year twos are Carla, Rachel, and Sarah, with Ruth being a year three.
But is it random that Joyce, a year one, was paired with Sarah, a year two? Or is there a reason that one of them was paired with the other?
I almost wonder if Sarah has anxiety thing, where whenever stuff is going good she starts to get afraid that the ‘other shoe’ is going to drop and everything will be as bad it was when Dana was at her worst again and she’s trying to brace herself for it because she’s not recognizing the sense of impending doom isn’t rational anymore.
I used to work with a person like that, who was different from Sarah in that she also felt her happiest when she felt like she was “rescuing” someone – so her anxiety would make her certain you were going to fail, so she’d sabotage you (either with snide remarks like Sarah is or through setting you up to fail) to “rip the bandaid off” and get the failure over with quickly so that she could then rush in and feel better by “rescuing” you from the failure she engineered in the first place. Being the only autistic employee in the place, guess who she chose as the target for a lot of her “helping”?
(she is why I left that workplace. There was a lot of other stuff going on as well – like they kept forgetting to pay me and so on and so forth – but ultimately I just hit a point of “I can’t stand being around this person any more” and quit)
Anyway, Sarah here is reminding me of that woman – she is mistaking her anxiety-driven worst-case-scenario for fact and getting prickly that nobody else seems to “recognize” what’s “going to happen”.
THIS IS NOT EVEN MY FINAL FORM!
Ow, those poor ring fingers. Those poor tendons.
And this is why cynics can’t have nice things. Believe me I tried, made the realization, and then devoted myself to overcoming my cynicism by watching a half hour of kitten and or puppy videos. Because kitty and puppy videos prove that there is, in fact, good in the world. Either that or bawling my eyes out to “The San Patricios”.
Joyce: I dunno, Sarah, why don’t you VISIT Billie and find out?
But no one told Sarah that Billie is okay and back from the Health Center.
In fact, everyone but Dina has ignored Sarah since they got back from the trip home.
Sarah is not a passive receptacle, and is capable of asking questions or going to learn things for herself.
She has instead decided to go for the super-snide, passive aggressive comment that can VERY EASILY be interpreted as “Guess you really don’t care about Billie, huh?”
Sarah has problems with the concept of friendship. Which is weird because she’s largely accepted as she is.
But she doesn’t know she’s accepted. My own social anxiety does this thing where I perceive myself as hated by everyone I meet, especially when I’m under stress. At Sarah’s age, I didn’t know it was a false perception, and believed it. I wonder if she’s doing the same thing.
It’s weird, but brains are very weird, especially when they break in subtle ways.
A variation of “Hide in Plain Sight”, “Nobody Cares about You”.
I have a sad now.
I wonder if we will learn more about Sarah beyond her freshman roommate situation. It seems to me that her personality is naturally very serious, steeped in realism with a lot of cynicism, and she has trouble being vulnerable. She’s also not overly friendly, nice, or accommodating in the way society would like a woman to be, which I don’t necessarily see as a bad thing.
But at the same time I sense that she’s at least very used to existing in an emotional place where she’s waiting for the other shoe to drop. Sometimes bad life events can make you feel fragile and confused (Joyce), make you put on a mask (Becky), and or make you very negative (Sarah).
Besides being a normal empathetic human, I wonder if there’s any other reason why she’s continuously worrying about her friends’/acquaintances’ situations to the point where she frequently points out pertinent emotional issues they need to address. Maybe her mantra is, “always think about the bad things, so when they really hit you it doesn’t hit as hard”?
This is all speculation though.
I generally like Sarah, too, and although she doesn’t know about Joyce’s weekend and she probably genuinely wants to know how Joyce is feeling, she didn’t have to say that right this second. Or she could have asked her better.
I wanted to make a ironic sexist joke here, but feared it’d be taken as a toxic masculinity trite. I believe I’ve been successful in the past, but may have crossed the line before, and I’m unclear how far would be needed to go to cross it again. I’m rambling, aren’t I?
Not really – I don’t know what the joke was, but for me thinking to myself that whatever I just thought wouldn’t be appropriate and then not saying it is progress. As controversial as it sounds, it also depends on the person you’re speaking to.
Some people enjoy sarcasm, some people have little tolerance for it, and so on. It’s even harder to gauge on the internet, but jokes based on identity is sticky territory, as many comedians have learned. From what I’ve heard, the rule is apparently don’t say it at all, or if you do it *better* be funny.
For me I find sarcasm tags really helpful, especially since online you don’t have the nonverbal cues like vocal tone and facial expression to work off to try to figure out whether someone is joking or not (which is fine for me since I am crap at picking them up anyway but most people seem to find parsing sarcasm much more difficult without them)
I believe the joke was something along the lines of telling Sarah to not be so bongoy. I don’t remember it now. Also…
I saw this picture
http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/image/149260259757
and now I’m hoping that at some point Joyce is saved by from a magical demon monster anime girl there, and it’s never mentioned again.
well this post makes no sense
I understood it.
I’m mildly confused by your confusion.
You say that as though half the commenters here wouldn’t recognize Fart-Chan.
But seriously, that is shitty, Sarah. Really. The “Oh shit, I really said a shitty thing” expression just isn’t good enough. It’s really not. You should immediately be on the floor begging for forgiveness. Not awkward silence and noticing that someone is using the wrong fingers for flipping you the bird.
This is Mike-level shittiness. It really is. It’s where you just want to tear someone down simply because you cannot see them being happy. Or even worse, the fact that they are happy again means you were wrong. Dina’s pipe-bomb of truth was meant to make you take a good hard look at yourself and realising something was wrong with you, not with Joyce!
Did you just not overhear the entirety of Dorothy’s and Joyce’s conversation? Did you not pick up the clues that this was exactly the kind of therapy that Joyce needed, because GODDAMMIT JOYCE HAS HAD SOME REALLY SERIOUS ISSUES ON HER OWN THIS LAST WEEK?!?!
Look, it’s simple: Yes, I think most of us could take better care of other people. But it’s more difficult to do that if we also do not take care of ourselves, because then we end up becoming the giving tree (which I only learned about a few days ago myself). And when we have done all we could, then the best thing we can do is recharge our mental batteries until it is time to do what we can again. And if that involves ladying it up and talking some quality silliness, then so damn well be it!
And Joyce, wonderful Joyce -does take care of other people-. Quite often to her own detriment. Heck, sometimes she knows it’s to her own detriment… And she still does it! Did -you- go to the hospital to check up on Billie, Sarah? No? Then shut your hypocritical little pie-hole!
All this time, it’s not really what you’ve feared that Joyce would break from coming to this university. It’s what you secretly wished, or maybe even not that secretly. Your expression is not “oh shit, I said a shitty thing”, it’s instead “Oh shit, did I say that out loud?”, meaning you’ve been thinking it for some time already, knowing you shouldn’t say it.
But you did. And the only reason Joyce is not gonna quit you forever (not that I’d blame her if she did) is because she is a much better person than you are.
I’m not sure if Sarah did overhear the conversation. I think she should apologize, but I don’t think she should be on her knees or anything like that. Remember, Sarah hasn’t seen a lot of what everyone else has seen. She wasn’t at the hospital, and she didn’t go home with Joyce – she doesn’t know these things.
I think Sarah’s worldview is steadily being challenged in the comic. She thinks that because bad things happen to people, people change and become sadder or more cynical or more forlorn about life in general, perhaps because it’s happened to her. She (rightfully) reported her roommate, and everyone around her changed for the worse, and so did she.
I disagree with the notion that she secretly wants Joyce to be unhappy. I think her expectations, based on interacting with Joyce and her own personal hangups about people of Joyce’s background, have influenced the way she sees and expects Joyce to be. She thought “real life” would “break” Joyce because hey, even other white people think middle class, sheltered, u:ber religious white folks (especially mormons and such) are a certain way. “They”, whoever they may be, haven’t experienced “real life” problems – which we see here is clearly not the case. But from many different identity perspectives, there’s a perverse satisfaction in seeing someone who you *perceive* to be unaware of “real life” problems get some real life problems and “grow up” so to speak.
Right, so then Sarah is not desiring Joyce to be unhappy, she desires her to be a little less chipper, religious, hopeful, less “Joyce-like” and more like everyone else, more like Sarah. This kind of person experiences hardship and then they become a more cynical version of themselves, which is not to say unhappy, just more realistic and grounded to a point. Sarah cannot understand why Joyce is still herself, only she doesn’t yet realize that experiences like these do not define a person.
Joyce is not perpetually a victim, the same way Sarah will not be a “snitch/unfeeling bingo” for the rest of her life, even though she clearly thinks that of herself and tries to pretend she doesn’t care for people. You don’t have to be stewing in negative feelings as proof that you’ve ever had a terrible experience, and those terrible moments are but parts of your whole, multi-faceted human self. She’s wondering “how can Joyce experience all that and still have the ability to live her best life?” Maybe she will be the one who learns from Joyce.
I would say that she certainly overheard the important things: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/awesome-2/
She is standing -right there-, when she hears at least the end of the tale of Joyce’s weekend, and while she did not hear the whole tale, even the end of it must have sounded like something really bad went down. I mean, you don’t kick in a window for no reason.
She was standing -right there- when Dorothy asked “So this weekend wasn’t -completely- awful, then?” which is a “hint” in huge flashing neon letters that the story involved a hell of a lot of bad things.
She was standing -right there- when Joyce tried to minimize how awful it was (or rather, now that she was -home-, it already started feeling less awful), and then said ” I’m just happy to be back here,” which is another neon-flashing sign that right now, Joyce is in desperate need to focus on Joyce!
She was standing -right there- when Dorothy managed to provide Joyce with the very exact thing Joyce needed: Some quality best friend ladytime together.
Oh, and the fact that they just got back from visiting the hospital to check on Billie and Ruth should probably be another neon-flashing “hint” that Joyce cared. Sure, Becky initiated it, but there was never, never any question whatsoever that Joyce was also coming along.
So she might know know the whole story, but she certainly has enough pieces to piece together some important parts, if only she wasn’t too busy misinterpreting Dina’s epic truth-bomb and thinking that Joyce needs to stop smiling.
And as we see more of Sarah, I am also starting to question more and more the truth of her side of that story with Dana, and also whether it really was the right thing to do.
And even if she doesn’t know about the weekend, she should damn well just be glad to see that Joyce is being Joyce again! What does she do instead? She ripped straight into Joyce’s insecurities and tried to guilt-trip her. Yet another person of a list of horrible persons through this weekend telling Joyce (or talking behind her back but having her overhear it) she should feel bad about something Joyce should not in fact feel bad about.
Sarah had no right to do that. SHE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING RIGHT TO DO THAT! That is -not- about “making people realistic”, that is just straight trying to make them unhappy, it really is.
You are right in that she got the gist of the general emotions. With stuff like that, it’s not easy to completely comprehend unless you hear all of the story, not some of it. People who don’t experience these things often need to hear the whole story, which is annoying, but true. Her face in the last few panels shows she just realized she clearly doesn’t know what the hell she’s talking about.
I think her side was the truth, and she did the best she could in that situation, just like calling the residence manager was the best anyone could have done in the Billie-Ruth situation – none of them are professionals, nor did they know the whole of Ruth’s story or Billie’s story – what else could they have reasonably done?
I don’t mean to say that she should have said that specifically, most definitely – I agree with you there. She could have said “Joyce, would you like to talk about Billie?” “Joyce, how *was* your weekend?” “Do you want to talk about this right now?”
She wasn’t tearing her down, she was being sarcastic here. her normal, abrasive, bitter, cynical, thinks everyone else except her should be wearing their emotions on their sleeves, especially Joyce, self.
I don’t think she’s a horrible person, just that she needs to deal better with people, and, similar to what I said before and thinking about your last paragraph, that she’s mixing up realism and unhappiness. What she thinks is realism is other people’s misery. It’s like the person who thinks they’re more worldly and edgy by claiming everything is pointless. Well, we have a short time on this earth, why not be a little like Joyce and throw your best into everything? But Sarah doesn’t understand that yet – at least with people, she’s not trying her best right now.
“What she thinks is realism is other people’s misery. It’s like the person who thinks they’re more worldly and edgy by claiming everything is pointless. Well, we have a short time on this earth, why not be a little like Joyce and throw your best into everything? But Sarah doesn’t understand that yet – at least with people, she’s not trying her best right now.”
Quoted for full and utter agreement.
I might have something else to say later, but I just wanted you to know that we at the very least agree on this.
But was she standing right there when Dina called her out on being cynical?
Hahahahaha!
Well played.
Fucking well played, you dastardly magnificent bastard!
Hear ye, hear ye! By Our decree shall Orion Fury receive no less than nine thousand and one Imperial Internet Points!
(But really, thank you. Just what I needed right now.)
Sweet! I now have nine thousand and two. I’ll try to be generous with my sharing of them.
I think Sarah just doesn’t recognize that kind of reaction. Even in that last scene, she couldn’t see those as genuine smiles, but just as denial.
When Sarah cares about someone who’s in trouble she can’t just be happy anyway, even for self-care. She’s constantly worrying. She doesn’t yet really understand how other people handle stress differently. If she was laughing and chatting happily with her friends it would be evidence that she didn’t really care. Seeing Joyce do that not only means the weekend didn’t really bother her, but that she really isn’t broken up about Billie.
That’s bullshit of course and she realizes it as soon she sees Joyce’s reaction, but I don’t think she really gets it.
Joyce’ll get over it. She’s said worse things to Sarah and they’ve gotten through that.
The key difference, I feel is that if Sarah does occasionally want to tear people down, she at least recognizes it as a bad action and one she shouldn’t ever indulge. Whereas Mike revels in the casual destruction of his friends because… for the lulz, I guess?
Doesn’t make what Sarah said right. What she said wouldn’t be right in any context known to man (seriously, to everyone, do not ever accuse someone doing self-care after supporting a suicidal friend of not caring about their suicidal friend, self-care is a critical phase of recovering from that level of emotional stress and people in that phase tend to be in a fragile emotional state where they are already beating themselves up over whether or not they are doing “enough”).
As Raidah said to Char, certain statements aren’t right because we’re in the universe not because of any particular context.
“The key difference, I feel is that if Sarah does occasionally want to tear people down, she at least recognizes it as a bad action and one she shouldn’t ever indulge. Whereas Mike revels in the casual destruction of his friends because… for the lulz, I guess?”
Well, here is the thing… She does it a lot. And I mean a lot. She constantly tries to repaint what people are doing to make it look bad. And she does not even always recognise that it’s bad either, or at least it isn’t shown to us. Only when the line she has crossed is on a different continent does she ever go “oooops!”
Did she realise how crappy it really was to tell Dina that Dina was a rebound? If so, we never saw.
It is safe to assume that we never saw her realising it was bad to tell Dina that Joyce may never smile again. Dina was the one dropping the epic pipe-bomb of truth on Sarah on that one.
Did she really realise how crappy it was when she pushed away Jacob? Well, the first thing she does is to immediately try and justify it to herself. So yeah, she realises that she is toxic, I suppose… But instead of taking it as a lesson in being less toxic, she just doubles down. “See, I told you you don’t want to be friends with me” indeed.
True, she eventually did realise that trying to “take” Jacob from Raidah (aka acting as if he is a trophy instead of a human being) was bad… Then again, maybe not. That strip where she just goes “NO! No no no no no!” might also have been “I do not deserve to be happy! I must be miserable for all of my existence”, showing that at least she is perfectly capable of tearing herself down as much as as she is of others. Hard to tell.
And here is the thing: Throughout all of these (and other) examples of Sarah’s miserable mouth, she does not seem to ever actually stop doing it. One way or another, she constantly pushes away the one single lesson she really needs to learn from all of these things: That she is not helping anyone at all. She really isn’t. That even if she only secretly wants to care about people, then she needs to make sure that they are actually helped.
The fact that she isn’t even trying that makes me wonder if she really cares, or if that is the mask she keeps up, not for others, but for herself. That this is what she tells herself every day to justify her own miserable behaviour.
The difference between her and Mike seems to me that she wants people to be unhappy because she is. Mike wants them to be unhappy for the lulz. And while the latter is arguably worse, I would not think of it as a “key difference”, but rather a matter of a fairly small degree of difference.
I think that where you’re wrong is where you think she tries to repaint people in a negative light. I don’t really think she can help it. It feels like almost compulsive behavior.
You might very well be right. I will be honest, I have been doing some real rage rants, right now, because I got seriously pissed off.
Oh yeah, that was rather obvious, wasn’t it?
Anyway, the equally obvious point is that while I still think I have a right to be angry, those emotions have probably led me to some wrong conclusions.
In fact, I am already starting to feel a bit sadder for Sarah. Still pissed off, but I’m also realising how she is treating herself at least as badly as she treats anyone else too.
it’s cool. If I was in Joyce’s shoes I would have understood what she was trying to ask, but I’ve have been super pissed nonetheless.
I do hope that I at the very least managed to keep focused on being pissed off at Sarah, and did not attack other people simply because they disagreed with me. Right now, I do not trust myself quite yet to read my own comments objectively to make that assessment myself.
No worries! It didn’t feel like an attack, it felt like a regular debate.
Nah, you kept it pretty civil even while you were getting heated. And I can totally understand that.
You actually don’t know how much it means for me to hear you say that.
Because there is one thing about me that I don’t like, and that I do try to suppress for good reasons, and that is the fact that when I get pissed off, I can… Well, let’s not mince words, I can be one of the worst assholes ever. I can be as bad as Sarah just was, or worse.
Now, this is a tremendously bad thing to be. And it is something I have worked on over the years to stop, because holy shit it is so horribly toxic to be able to say that one particular thing that is like punching through someone’s ribcage and ripping out their heart. I really do not want to be that person. In general, I am not.
My greatest fear about myself is to get so angry that I do just that.
And now I think you know why it’s important to me that you said what you said.
See as bad as I’m sure Joyce feels right now, I’m sure Sarah’s gonna feel even worse tomorrow after one of her only friends rips her a new one.
When has Joyce said anything nice about Sarah?
Joyce seems to be the kind of person who will also feel bad about doing the ripping, though. =/.
I guess Joyce doesn’t care enough to send her very best. (Old joke)
straight fuck you sarah. fuck you.
My brother does the pinky finger= “up your nose!” And that was daring for our family.
Comic Reactions:
Oh Sarah. Just… oh, Sarah.
Like, there’s an argument that she’s just been on a self-destructive kick of late between her aborted attempt at revenge against Raidah by “winning Jacob”, her “fuck your NRE, you’re a rebound” comment to Dina, and now this. And definitely there’s an argument to be made that she doesn’t know how to handle people being happy, inherently mistrusting that as prelude to some awfulness, or something she needs to destroy to hold on to her cynical attitude.
And I’m suspecting or at least hoping that Sarah will reveal whatever brain fart made her strike like that out of goddamn nowhere when she already knows that Joyce has been holding on by a thread for a good week or so.
Overall, it’s clear that she realizes very quickly that she fucked up and there’s direct parallels to Joyce fucking up in a major way last week trodding all over her Dana button:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/healthy/
Especially with that “oh fuck, what did I just do” face she makes in Panel 3. But it’s still a massive fuck-up and not an okay thing to say to anyone at any time, but especially not after sprinting off to the hospital to check on said suicidal friend she is accusing Joyce of not caring about.
With irony given the character, I quote Raidah’s reponse to the shittiest member of her crew dropping the r-word: “(Sarah), no. C’mon. Don’t say that.”
Like, Sarah’s got a good enough track record, I’m willing to hold judgment for a few strips, but she better be fast with the apologies cause that’s a big fuck up on her part.
Possible reason for Sarah’s “brain fart”. Sarah cares more about Joyce than Joyce knows and Sarah will admit. Evidenced by the worried looks out the window etc. Then Joyce arrives back and virtually ignores Sarah. Willis made a point point of showing it with Sarah’s feeble “Welcome back home” after everyone left for the Health Center. Often people feeling ignored will do something extreme to get attention, like a kid throwing a tantrum, or a Walky throwing a toy. And may not even be aware of why they’re doing it. So yeah, “brain fart” is a good term for it.
Which is not a good trait to do. Negative attention for the sake of attention just trains people to view you as toxic and give you zero attention. Sarah’s earned a lot of free passes from Joyce, but she’s not gonna want to make a habit of outbursts like that.
Sarah has definitely had a slower emotional growth rate than Joyce since she is so guarded about her problems. It might help if they talked more directly about things rather than around things. As it is. Dina surprisingly has become the sounding board and interpreter for Sarah’s relational problems. Dina would probably point out that she is a bad choice for that function.
Yeah, Dina’s friendship seems to be rather healthy for Sarah.
I don’t know, I feel like its more that Sarah is struggling with expressing her feelings. People ignoring her may just be aggravating that, because it makes it harder to break out of her “not caring” routine when people expect it of her, and don’t bother attempting interactions that they would otherwise.
She wanted to welcome Joyce back warmly, but could only just manage the effort. If Joyce had said something to her as she came in, she could have just responded cheerfully (or as close to that as she could).
She clearly wanted to come with to the health center, and if they’d suggested she come along, she’d no doubt have begrudgingly agreed. But they didn’t, so she would have had to tag along, revealing she was coming entirely because she wanted to.
Here, maybe she just wanted to hear how things went at the health center, but since Joyce never brought it up, again, Sarah was given no find out without revealing she cared at least a little, and the cynical part of her brain rebelled. She even looks a little surprised herself about what she just said.
She seems to want to overcome her misanthropy, but she keeps finding herself in situations that require giant leaps, when she’s only ready for baby steps.
“She wanted to welcome Joyce back warmly, but could only just manage the effort.”
Well, she had a perfectly good chance earlier this day, but her response to Joyce making an enthusiastic “Sarah!” was “Oh. It’s you.”
That right there is as cheerful as Sarah was to Joyce when Joyce specifically addressed her. Which was the first thing Joyce did when she came back to her room the first time that day.
Now, it is true that in the next strip she did stand alone in the hallway saying “Welcome back home.”, but that felt more like a moment of sarcasm. The full version would have read “Welcome back to unnecessary drama and all of the things I think will break you.”
Oh, right. I was getting that return confused with when her and Dorothy returned from the health center. It was on the later entrance that they just walk in without even speaking to her.
Still want to read Sarah’s “Welcome back home” as what she’d wanted to say when Joyce arrived, and she’s kicking herself for again chickening out on allowing herself to show the slightest bit of affection. I have some difficulty with that myself at times, though not to such a huge extent, or with such minor displays.
I am the eternal optimist though, and sarcasm also seems like a reasonable take on it.
“I am the eternal optimist though”
With that avatar, you better be! 😀
Also, I sometimes confuse you a bit with Bagge because of that avatar.
Yes I know it’s a different version of Becky, shush now!
Of course, Bagge is the coolest of the cool, so I take it you don’t mind much being confused with her.
The “eternal optimist part” is also easy to confuse between me and Fart Captor, as is the “coolest of the cool” as far as I can tell (also – awwwww, thanks your majesty. Awefully kind. 🙂
So Bagge, one question remains to determine how easy you two are to confuse:
Are you any good at capturing farts?
I’m more of a free range person
LET THE FARTS FLY FREE IN THE WIND! JUST LIKE LESBIAN GOD CREATED THEM!
Yeah, I was gonna jokingly complain that the switch from Captor’s Carla grav made me mistake them for Bagge a couple times, but… coolest of the cool. Couldn’t bring myself to complain even in jest about more Becky.
You guys….
And we all should have Rad Becky gravatars! HIGH FIVE, Fart Captor
Woo! *completely whiffs high-five*
YEAH!
*whiffs high-five, substitutes Krogan headbutt*
I certainly wouldn’t. Bagge seems like good people. Plus, I’ve had that problem myself. We seem to have similar opinions regarding Becky, with respect to her being the best.
I dare say also Becky’s radness is a subject of some accord between us. Possibly even, if I may go out on a limb, her awesomeness.
Indeed.
To be fair, that first reunion was in front of a fairly sizeable crowd of people. It can be a pretty giant leap to go from wanting to be open to one person to trying to do so in front of a group of spectators that you aren’t nearly as close to.
Heh, OK, so you already posted that link.
Good argument for self destruction. I think it is more in the line of “trying to prove to herself that she is as toxic as she thinks she is, and thus unworthy of the friendship of un-broken people like Joyce and Dina”. Quite similar to Ruth.
Either way, I agree that this is the second act of… something important for Joyce and Sarah, so I look forward to see what happens next.
Yeah! That’s what I was thinking. I’m beginning to realize Sarah might not think highly of herself as a person.
Shit, that’s a parallel I didn’t even think of… and crap, you might be right. Mav was saying above that Sarah seemed depressed and that may be true.
And I think it might have partially to do with seeing Joyce in crisis this last week and being all “I can’t go through this again” about it mixed in with torpedoing the friendship with Jacob because she believes she has no value. Though now that I say that last line, it seems this belief in worthlessness has been around for awhile. Hell, didn’t the flashbacks with her and Raidah have her making self-deprecating jokes about her worth as a friend to Raidah?
So yeah, she might be carrying some nasty depression that’s starting to eat its way through in really negative ways.
Wait, Raidah said that about Dina?
No, Char said the r-word and Raidah stopped mid-condescension to Dina to call that shit out with genuine disgust.
Here’s the comic in question:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/bullies/
So there’s a reason why I don’t even remember Char, let alone hate her.
Ouch, Sarah did NOT plan to cross that line, but it’s still the most venomous thing she said in comic. A neat parallel to Joyce’s outburst here
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/healthy/
Sarah loves Joyce, she has spent the weekend worrying sick for her, she somewhat resents the fact that Joyce did not seem to break from her family encounter and she worries that she has, under the smile.
And she expresses it in the most hurtful way she can. Those scars from the Dana debacle must really hurt from recent events.
I’m REALLY glad Joyce is not like Sarah. She didn’t bottle it up, she got mad about it.
Bottling can be dangerous, because when you bottle under pressure, it tends to leak and you can’t really control in what direction it sprays or who might be caught up in it.
And the painful, almost deadly shards when it explodes.
Especially when you are (metaphorically) bottling up balls of tin foil and drain cleaner.
Yeah. I am kinda surprised kinda not at her behavior. She is doing the ‘lash out at friend for making me care about her’ Routine. I expected after a character told her “Wow you really are worried about Joyce” something like this would happen.
THE SLEEPER STIRS, NOT YET AWOKEN BUT DREAMING
I’ve suspected this before: Sarah is really disturbed when people are happy around her. However, in this case, I rather think that, because Joyce isn’t behaving in line with Sarah’s expectations, she’s getting extra annoyed. I also think, in her amateur psychologist way, she’s worried that Joyce is avoiding her sadness or something.
Sarah would be right to say that Joyce is acting out of her normal character but I don’t think that she realises that this, in very many ways, is a new Joyce with fewer behavioural constraints.
And I’ve made it to the end of the comments for the night (from my current perspective). To which I leave you with:
NERDS!
what the fuck sarah. also, i love you, also, i hope joyce kicks your ass tomorrow. also, do you want a hug.
OK, you know what, I’ll stick with the first panel. How I adore the Joyce and Dotty interaction! This constant care, and support and genuine interest in the other. They really have missed each other.
Yeah, Joyce and Dorothy together is so healing and beautiful for both of them. Just gals being pals (but for like reals this time).
There are some REALLY healthy friendships going on here. Joyce-Dorothy, Walky-Becky, Dina-Sarah… After all stress and shit that’s going down, it’s wonderfully rewarding to see them so relaxed with each other.
Dina is healthy for Sara, but less sure the other way around…
Oh, she is. Sarah is the one person Dina doesn’t have to second guess all the time.
True, but let’s not forget the “rebound” comment. And how she tried to turn Dina into someone as pessimistic as herself by saying Joyce would probably never smile again.
Sarah gives Dina her honest opinion, which Dina appreciates. Dina then doesn’t waste time telling Sarah when she is wrong.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/awesome-2/
Like I said a few days back: Dorothy is genuine therapy for Joyce right now, she really is.
YEESH sarah
While I’m an innate pessimist like Sarah, I have to agree that that was uncalled for. Just because someone’s been through trauma or hardship doesn’t mean they have to act like it ALL the time. Do YOU want to keep thinking about something bad that happened to you? It’s quite abhorrent how in a lot of, for example, rape cases, the victim will get attacked or disbelieved simply because “she’s not behaving like she got raped”.
Brown 3:16
And that’s the bottom line…
What?
wow, Sarah that was epic bad. I hope Joyce rips her a new one. Seriously, I like Sarah, but her whole “the world is crappy attitude” is getting really old, really fast. It’s like she stayed in bongo phase while everyone else free grew out of it.
yeah, she had some shitty situations, especially the roommate thing but it still doesn’t account for her overall toxic attitude. She needs to seriously get over it and grow up.
When I saw the second panel, I immediately thought of this.
Also, how do you flip your ring fingers like that, I can’t do it very well.
Also also, Sarah’s kinda being more of a jerk than usual here.
Yeah, after reading the strip for the second time, I tried it with my ring fingers to see if I could. My right one wouldn’t stretch out properly so obviously Joyce must have been practising for a while to stretch her tendons or something!
I think that Sarah and Mike both have a similar issue: They both think that the world is essentially a horrible, hateful place and that no-one has any right to be happy.
The big difference is that Mike has turned his not-inconsiderable intelligence towards scientifically and methodically making everyone as angry, hateful and miserable as he thinks that a sane person should be whilst Sarah’s outbursts seem more traumatically impulsive.
Well, I guess this is where my archive binge ends. Looks like it’s time to read it every day with the rest of everyone. I just want to say that this webcomic has made me FEEL. It’s wonderfully written and the little bits of detail like character accents have made it a joy to read. It pains me to hear that you have known people that are like some of the more abhorrent characters portrayed here, but if that’s true, you -probably- also know people like Walky, Dorothy, and Becky, and that’s wonderful to know. Thank you for pouring at least part of your heart and soul into this comic, it’s been a lovely ride so far and I look forward to reading it until the very end.
Sarah seems to have streamlined her thought process lately. I mean didn’t she used to have reflections and character development and stuff? Now it’s more like
Step 1: Locate person
Step 2: Accuse person of not caring enough about the bad thing
Step 3: Repeat from step 1
This is her and Joyce’s room…
I meant she’ll do it to whoever is in front of her.
It looks like Joyce’s right hand is giving the devil horns which might actually be worse than the middle finger considering her upbringing. I hope Joyce finally calls Sarah out on her cynicism being the reason why people don’t like her. She did the right thing with Dana and people give her grief for that, but it’s not the only reason she’s disliked. Her attitude doesn’t make any new friends and sabotages potential relationships like Jacob.
But the devil horn was specifically used against the devil- oooh.
You…you B-Word
+1
I wonder how much of Sarah’s attitude is Dana-related and how much is pre-existing.
Like, I kind of thing she was naturally a bit pessimistic and prone to taking the cynical view of things but also very confident in her own judgement and capabilities before Dana – she probably didn’t have many friends but maybe like Dorothy she felt she didn’t need many or didn’t have time for many… and her usual coping strategy in difficult emotional situations (“Avoid it if possible, if not, snark at it until it goes away”) was working fine for her even if it made it hard to keep friends… and then Dana’s mom died.
Suddenly avoidance was impossible because the difficult situation was in her room. Snarking probably made shit worse by causing Dana to explode at her, and nothing was helping. Finally she hit her own crisis point with midterms and made an ultimately self-serving decision (it was – I don’t knock her for it, though, as in all honesty I’ve made similar decisions before and probably will do again). She justified it to herself as Dana needing help (which Dana did, to be fair), but ultimately her primary concern was not losing her scholarship, which Dana’s friends sussed out immediately. Sarah not being the greatest at social interaction, and Dana’s friends being privileged shits who don’t grasp that for Sarah, losing her scholarship means losing her one chance at her dream (let’s be real: In Sarah’s boat, she only gets one. We don’t know much about her socioeconomic background but we know that she can’t get student loans, which probably means she knows nobody who could co-sign with her, and that she can’t afford to go out as much as a lot of her peers – both of those suggest that she comes from an economically disadvantaged background. Poor PoC don’t get second chances in North America, typically – Sarah gets one, and that’s it, and she knows she can’t afford to fuck it up or to let anyone else fuck it up for her). Plus, IME people tend to undervalue the cost of being self-sacrificing – especially when it’s not them who would have to make the sacrifice (i.e., Dana’s friends would not adequately account for the cost Sarah had already paid and that she was being asked to pay by them and by Dana – all well and good to say, “You should have given her more time,” but what about what that was going to cost Sarah? If the other folks wanted Sarah not to report Dana so bad, they should have offered her a room swap or something – but they didn’t, they just expected that Sarah would put up with an ongoing crisis forever and never complain about the toll it was taking on her. And they didn’t because they severely underestimated the strain it was causing Sarah). Between those factors, there’s probably no way Sarah was going to salvage her support structure after she made the decision to eject from the situation – even if Sarah was right and it was going down in flames.
And now she’s in a situation that feels like deja vu all over again and she’s terrified. Because last year, she came way too close for comfort to losing her one and only shot (at least, as far as she feels about it).
In her mind, what made last year such a disaster was getting too close to Dana and her friends, so at first she tries to stay away from Joyce – but Joyce is puppy-like in her ability to worm her way into people’s hearts (give someone who dislikes dogs one of those puppies from an enthusiastically-friendly breed like a lab or something, and see how long before they’re playing tug of war and cooing at it – hell, even people who view fundies with wary suspicion on principle like me like Joyce by now). Damn it, now she’s attached.
And then the situation with Ryan happens and now all the alarm bells are going off and Sarah just knows – she just knows shit is gonna go down bad. And so now she vows she’s not going to make the same mistake as last time and wait until it’s all a hot mess before doing something. At the first sign of self-implosion, she’s going to jump.
… but Joyce keeps not self-imploding. She’s hurt, yes, but she’s coping.
And then Becky comes, and Joyce has to really defy her parents and upbringing (in a very apparent sense) for the first time in her life (yes, she stood up for Dorothy – but standing up for someone in one conversation is a damn sight different from sleeping in the same bed with someone who is gay – who you were brought up to view as evil and predatory), at the same time as she’s challenging her entire worldview. And Sarah braces herself, waiting for the meltdown. She’s got a million plans by now, for how she’ll break the news to Joyce, how she’ll respond when Joyce explodes, and so on.
… but Joyce keeps coping. She’s not fine, per se, but she’s functional and growing.
And then Toedad happens. And Sarah’s waiting with bated breath, holding her finger over the button, hating that she’s going to have to go through all of it again but determined not to put herself at risk this time.
… and Joyce goes on, still not imploding.
Sarah has been living in ongoing crisis mode since the start of term. She’s so afraid of repeating the Dana situation that she’s making her own Dana situation, entirely in her head.
And by now, she’s probably at the “Oh just get it over with already, I can’t take it anymore!” point and she just wants the meltdown to happen so she can get through a bad situation that only she thinks is going to happen.
… so I wonder how much of her shittiness lately is her subconsciously trying to bring the “inevitable” meltdown and Joyce-breakage on sooner, so she can get over it and on with her term.
That’s a very, very good read and I think you are right.
From where Sara is coming, she is sitting on a bomb, and you can only do that for so long before you start thinking of fiddling with the cables. At least subconsciously she probably tries to poke at Joyce to figure out when the boom is coming.
Also, a good tally of Shit Joyce has taken without imploding.
I would agree. That’s a really good deconstruction of Sarah and I think you might be right about where she’s coming from and why she’s been getting a bit more… erratic of late.
And by that estimation, the Toedad must have felt like that was the line. Hell, Joyce spent a week in a foul mood seemingly immune to attempts to cheer her up and even made comments about everything being broken.
By your assessment, that must have been terrifying for Sarah, because she’s been preparing for months for this collapse that’s “inevitable” and then all of a sudden, it looks like it’s here and she’s worrying at the window and not able to focus on her studies and all of Joyce’s friends are gonna blame her for not doing enough and… as you say, she didn’t implode.
And I can empathize with the worldview. Sometimes when there’s been a lot of passive threats in the world against people like me, I’ll get in a headspace where part of me just wants to get physically attacked so I’ll stop being scared that it will happen any second now.
It seems Sarah has that but with people abandoning her and needing to bail from distracting emotional scenarios and is doing some not entirely okay things to try and induce it to happen sooner.
Because when humans don’t feel like they’re in control, they’ll grasp for anything that seems to give them some measure of it. And sometimes the things they grab onto are really, really unhealthy, for them and others around.
+another 1 for your exploration of Sarah.
I still hate this bullshit about Sarah being self centered or her mean-girl bullies being remotely right about her. We saw how horrible they are–we’re not supposed to think they’re right.
I mean, Reidah is as bad as Mary. She said bigoted shit to Dina. She goaded Sarah into punching her, and then lied to her boyfriend about the situation to try and make him hate her. She calls her toxic, while treating Sarah absolutely horribly.
Taking what she says as truth is as smart as taking what Mary says as the truth. Sarah was indeed trying to help.
If she were that selfish, we’d have seen it in her other interactions. Instead, she’s always tried to help out Joyce. Here she had a bad reaction, and you explained that perfectly.
So why the need to think she’s a colossal dick? I don’t like it when it’s done to Walky, Danny, Becky, or Carla, and I don’t like it done to Sarah either.
I think ‘self-centered’ in women gets a bad rap – for two reasons: Firstly, there is nothing wrong with taking good care of yourself and your body. A little bit of self-centeredness is not a vice, it’s appropriate self-care. Secondly, ultimately, the bar to be called ‘self-centered’ in a problematic sense for a woman is ridiculously low. Thing is, by our standards for feminine behavior, Sarah is self-centered. But that doesn’t mean her stubborn self-care should be viewed as a character flaw: She gets only one shot at life, after all – making her life the best she can should in fact be a priority for her.
To give an idea of how ridiculous our standards are: I used to get called self-centered for continuing to read in the room with other people, for continuing to study for a midterm I had the next day when one of my roommates decided that the house needed cleaning (backstory: I did an average of 3 hours of chores a day, my roommate did nothing, and I felt I’d banked more than my share of housecleaning hours, plus the midterm was in a course infamous for its first-attempt failure rate of 76%. As in, 76% of students taking it for the first time get an F. And I was on a scholarship and couldn’t afford an F). I’ve also been called self-centered for stating flat-out that I don’t want children, and called self-centered for telling my parents that if they want grandkids so damn much they can speak to my sister as she’s the one who wants children, not me. And I was called self-centered for insisting to a relative who was also a roommate that they not get cats when I’m severely allergic to cats, and for giving away my cats when I discovered that cat ownership was, in fact, slowly killing me. I could go on – but yeah basically any time you put your own well-being, your needs, above anyone else’s convenience or wants in this society as a woman, you’re “self-centered.”
And it’s not just me: I know other women who were called self-centered for such things as continuing their schooling with small children at home, staying at home on Christmas morning rather than packing two children under 4 who don’t travel well up in a car and driving 4 hours to visit the grandparents, trying to study while their roommates want to throw a party, spending their last money before pay day on food rather than a luxury for their partner, not driving 2 hours out of their way for someone without compensation, refusing overtime because of a pre-existing medical appointment, refusing to go to a concert with her boyfriend when she had photosensitive epilepsy and that band’s concerts are notorious for strobe lights, I could go on.
OK, so I am late to this comment and you will probably never see this reply, ischemgeek, but… Holy crap. The things people keep piling on you for no goddamn reason at all, I am in awe that you are not spending every awake minute of your day figuring out how to nuke this planet from orbit and start all over again with intelligent cockroaches.
HUGS! And there is more where that came from, if ever you need them. Don’t give a reason, just reply to any of my comments within the last three days of the comic and ask for one. You’ll get it.
I hate I admit it but I am Sarah. This is exactly what I do when I witness badly timed, unjustified happiness. And seeing it from the outside makes me slowly realize why it’s not that great.
Interesting. Why do you do it?
It just seems the logical thing to do. Like, if a tragedy happened and/or someone’s suffering around someone, it doesn’t feel like it’s too polite for the others to not think about it and have fun as if nothing happened.
What the fuck, Sarah?
Y’know, it takes a lot of work to physically do that. You have to practice to stretch the tendon, and even then, you’ve got biology working against you. That finger doesn’t even have its own muscle.
Sometimes I wonder why I don’t like Sarah and then a strip like this comes around.
Sarah doesn’t much like Sarah and doesn’t seem to like anyone liking Sarah either.
She definitely seems to regard it as highly suspicious behavior, although not quite as suspicious add liking someone who likes Sarah
Then again, she’s also suspicious of people who like people Sarah likes. Since Joyce and Sarah both like each other (or at least they did), that would just lead to a recursive feedback loop of mistrust, where the only way out is if one if them stops liking the other…
That… was not supposed to make so much sense
“… that would just lead to a recursive feedback loop of mistrust, where the only way out is if one if them stops liking the other…”
Thus her driving away Jacob. Ye gods, I love Sarah, she wants to do right, but she’s got issues on top of issues and she needs to be lovingly smacked into getting some therapy for them, because it’s so sad watching her drown in them.
…which says a lot for Willis’ ability to construct these characters.
DAMN YOU WILLIS!
Wait, how is Joyce fully extending her ring fingers with her middle and pinkie fingers fully curled? I’m pretty sure that’s not possible for any human.
((Raises eyebrow)) Human? That’s a big assumption to make, you know! 😉
Daaaaaaammmmnnnnnn.
Okay seriously Sarah I would highly advise you to BACK THE FUCK OFF, bongo!!!
Suprisingly dickish comment from Sarah, there. What would she have preferred, Joyce weeping uncontrollably? Joyce is clearly trying to get on with it, Sarah should be more impressed that Joyce has been ABLE to withstand everything she’s gone through.
See, Sarah, this kind of nonsense is WHY nobody believes you about the whole Dana situation. You’re just kind of an ass. Like most of the time 😛
Uh.
Oh.
I would actually consider that a stronger gesture than the middle finger one.
Seriously trying it myself and trying to hold it my left finger keeps twitching and my right hurts. That is some dedication there. Well-played, Joyce.
1. Sarah, holy SHIT that was a bad one for you.
2. Sarah, I’m thinking reading the comments you REALLY need to talk to someone about this and all the shit you internalize because yeah you are getting to a really bad place with that.
For a web comic that appears to be about learning tolerance and acceptance of others differences and flaws, there’s a surprising lack of that by many in it’s comment section. Yes, Sarah just did something stupid because she’s just as screwed up as Amber. Or Ruth. Or Joyce. Or almost everyone in this comic. Or many of us here!
Sarah says something stupid and some are ready go all Raidah on her without waiting for any possible explanation or apology.
It reminds me of the up-side of living alone on a mountaintop. Otherwise some here would have already come for me with pitchforks and torches for things I’ve said in the past with no intent to be mean or harmful.
normally id agree but theres her telling dina shes just a rebound (dick move) then being told by dinah that shes being pretty rude and to tone it down and then she does this 5 seconds later like… idk maybe its bc im dealing w/ the same stuff joyce is (friend killing herself) and im trying to cope and laugh so no one knows how sad i am and honestly if i heard someone say that to me id be so upset id just collapse and stop functioning i wouldnt be able to respond id just go numb bc fuck am i hurting and fuck do i want to just stop living and lay in bed and stare at my ceiling and smiling and pretending im not hurting makes it soooo much worse and its just… this is what sarah does and its really hurtful and cruel and it needs to stop honestly? like if she were my friend she wouldnt be after pulling this kinda stunt its just… yeah i def feel for joyce rn which is very weird bc usually i find her alienating but yeah
I don’t see it. The presence of strong feelings on the subject, one way or the other, doesn’t seem to have prevented a polite discussion.
I see people who are really mad at her for doing something really shitty to someone close to her, I see people who think Sarah should go fudge herself, and I see people Sarah clearly rubs the wrong way who don’t like her. There’s even some people who think Joyce was being weird and Sarah wasn’t all that out of line. I’m actually most inclined to disagree with the last stance, but they all seem like legitimate reactions to me.
I might feel that Sarah is a good person deep down, and is just struggling with some unresolved issues causing her to lash out without meaning to hurt, but even if that’s true (and everyone agreed (which they don’t)) that doesn’t mean she’s entitled to automatic forgiveness. I only forgive her because I assume that in future strips, we’ll see her earn it by apologizing and trying to fix her behavior. If she doesn’t, I’m going to end up in the “Sarah’s a horrible person camp” as well. I don’t think people who aren’t willing to make that call tell they see it happen are being intolerant. They’re being pragmatic. Cautious. Neither of which is a character flaw.
I don’t even think that anyone who already didn’t like Sarah feels that way because they’re less tolerant than I am. Not every flaw should just be accepted. If you judge each person and each flaw on a case-by-case basis, and are willing to re-evaluate your conclusions should new evidence arise, and still don’t like someone, I’d say you’ve done your due diligence. Feel free to dislike and/or avoid interaction with that person, although probably don’t curse at them on the internet if the person isn’t fictional.
But they have to be less tolerant. They aren’t tolerating things that you tolerate.
I also think this blase attitude towards dislike is not good for the world. That’s just another way of saying you have a lack of empathy for people. It should not be something taken lightly.
Sure, this is a comic, so it’s not as important. But, in real life? If you dislike someone, I expect to find out they really are a horrible person. And not someone like Sarah who still genuinely cares about people, but is a bit anti-social.
Not that I see many people here who do dislike Sarah. They mostly just seem to be saying she was a jerk here. And, yeah, she was. The couple who said they dislike her I hope were just having the same reaction I was, where I thought I disliked her for a bit, until I remembered how good she can be.
Of course, I can say this all I want, and it won’t change anyone else. But I genuinely do think this is a major problem in the world.
Wow…Sarah what the hell?
Disliking someone is not a horrible thing. Hate might be, but simply disliking at least some people is to be expected. There’s lots of them, and even some of the good, nice, friendly ones may end up rubbing you the wrong way for whatever reason.
What matters more (in my opinion) is why you dislike them, and how disliking someone affects how you treat them. If you dislike somebody for superficial shit like skin color or orientation or gender, etc, then yeah, that reflects poorly on you. But if you just find their personality boring or irksome, that seems reasonable to me. A byproduct of everyone being different is that not everyone is necessarily going to enjoy hanging out with everyone else. This is fine. We don’t all need to be friends to get along.
As for what happens when you dislike someone, avoiding or minimizing interactions with someone you find irksome seems entirely benign. Especially if you try to be nice (or not antagonistic at least) when you do end up talking to them. Going around trying to poison their other relationships (like Raidah), or going out of your way to be cruel, that would make you a horrible garbage person.
Whoops, meant to reply to trlkly, not start a new thread.
Wow Sarah, what the fuck
From what I’ve seen, she’s take aback that Joyce has come back in a good mood despite the difficult, emotionally draining time she’s had recently, and to retaliate has made some shitty comment about how she doesn’t care about Billie because she can still have a joke with one of her friends. Sarah doesn’t mean it, she hasn’t visited Billie herself, but she wanted to bring her back down because that just what Sarah does.
Joyce’s reaction is perfectly justified here, seriously Sarah come on
Can’t keep my Pinky down!
Why not just fold it up and put it somewhere inconspicuous?
Well, shit. I posted that on the wrong strip.