Wargal sounds like a cheesy comic book character riding a black, red, & chrome motorcycle with an equine figurehead around, occasionally with her posse Famine, Pestilence, and Death along for the ride.
I would read the hell outta that. Tank Girl meets Darksiders.
I think he might be asexual and comfortable with his sexuality. Like, sex brings no enjoyment, probably, but he’s fine with doing it if necessary to further his goals.
Also, he’s a dick, possibly even psychopathic. idk, maybe it’s explained more elsewhere in the Walkyverse.
Yeah, he probably just likes to fuck, asexual or not. But he also has to enjoy what he gains by fucking. Bc he also uses fucking to get where he wants. He just doesn’t seem to need an emotional bond to fuck someone.
I feel like there’s a “Your mama” age joke in there…
“Your mother’s so old she’s older’n nickel!”
“You mean the coin she was paying YOUR mother with?”
“No, I mean she’s literally somehow older than the 28th element on the periodic table. Dude, she is ANCIENT!”
This has been this month’s episode of “proof Silamy’s jokes are terrible”. Thank you, you’ve been a great crowd.
Not even. He was interested in Amazi-Girl but hadn’t approached her yet.
Things might have changed with how things went down with Amber, but Danny is a dude who gives himself maybe five minutes before he throws himself back in. He pretty much totally defines himself by being in a relationship.
Which is one of the things that bothers me about Danny. The attitude that you have to be in a relationship with someone is very unhealthy if you ask me.
Yep. It’s something his parents beat into his skull.
Like, it’s fine to be super persistent about romance, Danny’s 18, but it goes beyond finding joy through a relationship; for Danny, it’s how he receives his validation.
Hey, cut him some slack. He’s 18 and in college. Looking for a new relationship right after a breakup is pretty much the thing to do – at least being open to one. That is, if you’re even bothering with relationships in the first place. You’re meeting a ton of potential partners all at once.
I’m not even sure it’s all that true for Danny. He kind of stumbled into the Amazi Girl thing, though he did go out looking for her. He didn’t really do anything else to nail down relationship immediately. Nor is he this time.
Partly it’s the time compression. If he took a month off between, we’d never get anywhere.
Yeah, Danny tried diving right back into the game with Amber and Amazi-Girl at his first opportunity after Dorothy dumped him, but I think he’s approaching things a little differently with Ethan this time, and ultimately that’s going to contribute to their relationship being healthier.
As for DoA’s time kompression, well, yeah, when Danny and Ethan hook up it’ll be at most a week or two in comic time, but I still don’t think that the comic’s timeline is meant to be literal. If Walky and Dorothy broke up it wouldn’t have been a month long fling, it’d be the end of a relationship we’ve been following for four years now.
You can’t really say Danny HAD to throw himself back in. He met someone attractive, so he pursued her. He never even went looking for someone new. Same thing happened with Ethan. Both are good people who he was/is genuinely attracted to, so it’s not like it was just so that he’d be dating someone.
Now, once he’s IN a relationship, he puts holding onto that relationship ahead of anything else, including himself and the person he’s dating. With Dorothy, he picked IU entirely because that’s where she was going. That worked out ok since its a liberal arts school and he can probably study whatever it was he would have studied anyway, but I get the feeling he still would have followed her (or tried) if she’d gone to like, art school, or something that else incompatible with his own plans. If Dorothy hadn’t dumped him, he probably would have continued following her around, ignoring what he wanted to the point of not even taking time to figure out what that was, and growing steadily more bitter about how HE makes all the sacrifices until it eventually blew up.
Then with Amber, continued that behavior, only this time, he enabled her violent, unhealthy vigilantism and put up escalating abusive outbursts because he wasn’t willing to object and risk rocking the boat even a little. Sal helped him grow a bit of a backbone, but if Amber hadn’t dumped Danny, but merely refused to listen to him, I’m not sure he would have had it in him to actually dump her over it.
TL;DR: Danny is more clingy than grabby, relationship-wise
Danny didn’t want to dump Amber because he wants to help her through her shit, and her “escalating abusive outburst” was almost swearing at him that one time before she started crying.
Anyway, a huge part of Danny is that he validates himself through his relationships, this is all but spelled out through his relationship with Dorothy and literally spelled out yesterday with Mike. You’re dead on with what he was planning to do with Dorothy, buuut given that he was also planning on her giving up her own dreams, and then later grumbled that he would have gone to a different college if he knew he was getting dumped, well, I think he still has some self awareness left in him.
And that’s why openly acknowledging his attraction to Ethan, allowing himself to feel it, and being okay with them not dating for now is a big deal. He’s making some progress in moving away from the worst of his views on romantic loyalty.
I’m sure Mike knows what he’s doing, and I would never question his troll-game, but did he really think this one through?
Danny is attracted to Ethan, sure, but they have currently mutually ruled out a relationship together, and Danny is actively searching for someone else for Ethan to hook up with.
Trying to find your crush someone so they become offlimits rarely works as well as you’ll think it does. Even if Danny found a completely new character for Ethan to date, he’d likely feel jealous when they got along.
But getting sex from a long-time friend only for it to have been a complicated way of getting around a promise not to fuck with a friend of his rather than out of genuine attraction is probably a great way to exacerbate Ethan’s considerable neuroses about being gay.
Oh, Ethan, I can’t wait for you to break away fully from this toxic “friend” of yours.
…
Dude, Danny is super into Ethan. He doesn’t actually want Ethan to find a boyfriend. He thinks he’ll feel less attracted to Ethan if Ethan if Ethan is off the market, is all.
Spencer made a great point that after this clearing the air conversation they had that Danny and Ethan have moved beyond that point and Danny is now less “you are too desirable” and more, “you are hot, I imagine you would be a good partner, but I can’t do that to Amber, but I’m glad we are friends and enjoy that friendship earnestly”:
I don’t see anyone in this universe/age group actually being that mature. Especially not Danny. I can see Ethan moving on easily enough, but Danny idealizes romantic relationships a lot still, to the point of unhealthy. He would probably be somewhat happy, but I really see him exhibiting the same unhealthy, co-dependent behaviors as more likely, with him being upset at that Ethan has moved on.
Ethan and Danny practically have cartoon hearts swirling around their heads every time they interact. Just because he knows it would be a bad idea for the two of them to hook up that doesn’t magically remove his crush. Intellectually he knows one thing but his feelings are a whole other story. His reaction’ll probably be, “Fuck I like you way more than I was ready to admit I did and this hurts me even though I know I have no right to be hurt.” People are sometimes more complicated than what they just say out loud.
It’s not a matter of the crush being gone, it’s that Danny’s starting to become okay with having that crush, and that it’s not going to ruin his life. He’s allowing himself to be attracted to Ethan without trying to circumvent it or block him out of his life.
Right now Amber is more important to Danny and Ethan than their feelings for each other. Will that change in the future? Totes. But for now, they’re just friends who think they’re hella hot.
yeah its almost like were two different people with two different perspectives interpreting a work of fiction
In all seriousness, I really just think of Ethan and Danny’s feelings towards each other as “you’re nice and hot. I totally would, but we can’t, so oh well.” The important part to me is seeing Danny be attracted to a man and not beat himself up over it.
I think there’s a difference though between Danny beating himself up over an attraction to men which would be a cliche and out of character since Danny seems overall fine with his sexuality and Danny being bummed out that the guy he liked hooked up with someone else which is more in line with typical college drama. If you’re worried about him falling into some kind of tragic stereotype here I don’t see that being the case. But whatever agree to disagree at this point.
I mean, Danny beating himself up over his attraction to men was a huge part of his arc since we found out he was bi. The whole reason he confessed his attraction to Ethan is because he didn’t want to be ashamed of his feelings anymore. He’s fine with his sexuality now because he made the effort to accept it.
Like I said, there’s a crush and there’s chemistry, but I really don’t think Danny as he is right now would be too broken up over his new crush finding a boyfriend. It’s really not about needing to make Ethan unavailable, that was earlier. Now he’s doing it because he likes Ethan and Ethan is a guy he can “never ever ever” date.
Like, yes, he’s attracted and they have a really healthy dynamic that would make a super cute couple if they did start dating, but he’s also made his peace with it not being feasible because of their mutual empathy and feelings of care for Amber/AG and Danny seems to have made real peace with the idea of Ethan dating other guys and not having ownership of that and no longer seems to be motivated by the desire to partner Ethan up with anyone just to keep from being tempted.
Like, yeah, he’s mono and moderately prone to jealousy, but he’s had a really healthy turn of late regarding his feelings for Ethan and talked it out and I think he really does believe that he’s in a healthy place with regards to Ethan dating people and having his own relationships not with Danny and just enjoying the friendship and the lingering mutual attraction.
Yeah, Danny;s made huge strides not just in accepting his sexuality, but in trying to weed out some of his more harmful views on stringent monogamy. Before now he’d panic and try to block Ethan out and smother his own feelings, and now he’s allowing himself to be attracted to Ethan without beating himself up over them “never” happening, or needing to find Ethan a boyfriend because if he didn’t then he’d ruin things with Amber.
@Spencer I’m not saying Danny’s going to be a basket case over this. I’m saying jealousy, even irrational jealousy that he will fully admit is irrational, is a very likely possibility. You can say something is a very, very, very bad idea and know that with absolute certainty and know you don’t have a leg to stand on feeling shitty about it and apart of you is still going to feel whatever you feel about it because emotions are complicated and people are hormonal, irrational, messes most of the time.
Because thats a paper thin pretense ( of Danny’s) , and Danny X Ethan are always mere moments from ripping off each others clothes.
Plus its a double on Amber. Amber will find out. And Amber will Find out Danny was Jealous of Mike x Ethan . Which will be just as awkward for Amber as finding out Danny went right to Ethans arms, only worse.
PLus Amber will be jealous of Mike hooking up with Ethan too.
( Mike hasnt thought through all of the last part) .
I don’t think Amber would care about Ethan and Mike. Unless she suddenly saw Mike for that asshole he is, she’d probably be happy for them, as long as Ethan still spent time with her.
Danny and Ethan dating would be problematic because Amber’s gotten especially unstable lately, and Danny’s still on her shit list, so she’d probably see it as Ethan turning against her as well. There’s really no jealousy involved, only paranoia. Maybe some vengeance.
I think it’d bug him more that it’s Mike more than Ethan, because Mike is an asshole. There’s definitely a lot of chemistry, but Danny can probably go on with his life if the cute guy he’s known for two weeks and has already decided he’s never going to date finds a boyfriend, like he said he wanted to do for him.
Like I know everyone wants to believe they’re super madly in love, but Ethan is just a hot guy that Danny would date if circumstances permitted it, the same way he would have gone out with Amber if he wasn’t crushing on that super awesome totally not-Amber superhero on campus.
You’re putting a lot of faith in an 18 year old boy’s ability to compartmentalize his feelings. Just because he’s “decided” he can’t pursue Ethan for completely rational reasons that doesn’t mean when confronted face to face with his crush hooking up with someone he’s going to feel nothing about it. He doesn’t have to be “madly” in love. It’s really as simple as, “I like this guy. It sucks to see him hooking up with someone who isn’t me.” Just like Dorothy’s probably going to feel like shit when she and Walky split even though she “decided” it was a casual thing with a built in expiration date. Feelings are complicated. People are complicated. Ethan’s not just eye candy for Danny. This whole scheme wouldn’t appeal to Mike if he was.
I’m basing that on how Danny’s previously acted. He was attracted to Amber, but then there was a reason why he didn’t want to pursue her, so he didn’t, put her in the “friend” box, and refused to look at her in any non-platonic fashion until he was forced to acknowledge that he liked her and freaked out.
With Ethan the circumstances are different due to how he played into Danny trying to figure out his sexuality, but right now Ethan is someone Danny thinks is attractive, knows Ethan thinks he’s attractive, and that neither of them wants to date each other at the moment because they think they’d hurt Amber.
Like, yeah, I think this is going to play a major part in Danny recognizing that his feelings for Ethan go a bit farther than he thought, but for now I really think it’s just that Ethan is his hot friend and Danny has a crush on him, only this time Danny’s allowing himself to be okay with that crush.
I mean, even if he were bummed out about Ethan hooking up with someone else, would he want to pursue it anyway if the both of them have already put Amber’s feelings on a pedestal? Like, if Amber had dated someone else after Danny turned her down, would he get mad?
Though, that said, that jealousy attack was remarkably short-lived and their next interaction betrayed none of that jealousy. I don’t know if he’d have that same spark of jealousy with a non-former-romantic-partner. Certainly he didn’t with Amber, so I’d argue him having a jealous reaction is possible but might not be the most likely scenario.
Even with crush and chemistry contributing to the mix.
True nuff, though Danny did also believe that Dorothy dumped him for school and that dating Walky was her “betraying” that trust he had in her to never ever ever look at anyone in a non-platonic fashion until after she was out of his sight, something he didn’t hold himself to for any significant degree and even rightfully chewing Dorothy out when she and Joe scared off Amber.
Danny was kind of a dingus earlier on.
But, yeah, I think he’d be disappointed if Ethan were to find another man, but I also think he’d get over it in due time.
Going back and re-reading early strips, it’s kinda stunning how much Danny has grown and evolved in such little time.
Like early Danny had so many awful Danny moments where he was engaging in toxic behavior for dumb reasons. It’s genuinely impressive how much spending less time with Joe and taking the time to really introspect has helped better him as a person.
So then the primary reason why Danny’s gotten better is he’s not been around Joe? I wonder if Joe’s Joeness is bringing Joe down, and how will Joe thusly get away from Joe?
I’m not sure if it’s just Joe, though. Being away from home is certainly helping, just ’cause being removed from a toxic and painful environment (especially in a nontraumatic way) is helpful, but I think being out of his relationship with Dorothy might be doing him a lot of good. He always came last to her -and knew it -he said as much when she came to ask for shoes. And putting school before romance is fine and sensible, but if it’s not what everyone in the relationship wants (and if the person who doesn’t want it doesn’t believe they’re allowed to want things and lives with people who constantly reinforce that message), it’s not going to do them much good. Add in that Danny was constantly being told by both his family and society that his value was based on the continuation of that relationship (and also hearing from his family that he wasn’t good enough for her), and the most logical outcome (which I think we saw) would be him constantly getting more insecure and making the emotional scale (the balancing of how much effort and emotion each person’s putting in) more and more unbalanced by getting clingier and more desperate in the hopes of fixing things, which only exacerbated the existing problems. Joe’s not the best thing in Danny’s life by any means, but I don’t think that was the worst of his problems.
He expressed jealousy, yes, when he had it sprung on him because the partner in question was asking him a favor on behalf of the guy who “replaced him” with the understanding that he’d give in -and then asked him ANOTHER favor shortly thereafter. He and Dorothy had been together for two years, at least before she ended things, and by the end of that conversation, he’s not only resigned himself to her new relationship, he’s given Walky his own CLOTHING which Dorothy came to ask him for -and then, as you said, by the next time we see them together, he’s seemingly moved on. He’s either an INCREDIBLY well-adjusted and laid-back person, or he is HORRIFYINGLY insecure about the mere idea of having emotions.
Also, I’d forgotten Mike was in there -was he intentionally provoking his ROOMMATE into freaking out, and sparking a fight with his girlfriend and her ex? (she asked, rhetorically) Presumably, Mike’s intelligent enough to understand the basic principle of “don’t shit where you eat”, which leads me to the conclusion that he actually THRIVES on watching the people around him miserable -but only if he had some hand in it. (Last bit is speculation, but I’m pretty sure proof can be found in the archives or will be given to us fairly soon.)
Worse yet, he intentionally tried to spark jealousy in both Danny and Walky by implying worse things than what happened. This in a world where it’s not uncommon for jealous male exes and partners to commit violence on partners they feel have “wronged them”.
His actions could very well have gotten Dorothy hurt if Danny and Walky weren’t reasonably decent dudes.
And adding a quick addendum to clarify that I’m not saying most men are abusive towards partners or exes or that no women are, just that it’s enough of an occurrence in real life to make intentionally trying to play on jealousy and trigger an angry jealous outbreak a really dangerous game.
There was also the potential for male-on-male violence and harassment as posturing or revenge. Walky’s short, slight, geeky, not particularly fit, and has very firm ideas on proper “male” behavior -not only was violence a very real possibility, but Walky could’ve gotten badly hurt (or this could’ve sparked a source of social tension in the hall) -I don’t know if Mike knew that all but that last descriptor apply to Danny as well -if Danny weren’t as passive as he is… Mike wanted to watch someone get hurt, and he either didn’t care who, or he wanted it to be the person whose hurt he’d get to savor.
This is not to suggest that most men are violent towards one another -that would be ridiculous. This is, however, a world where violence does occur between people, male and female, who are competing (or think they are) for the attention of the same person.
Oh, Dorothy was just as bad then, it’s by far the worst thing she’s done in the whole comic. Everyone in that little chapter was a mess.
As for your part about how Danny processes relationships, I think of it as him mourning it, quickly getting attached to someone else, and then mostly moving on.
Except, at least from how I’ve read him, Danny doesn’t think he’s allowed to feel things that don’t benefit other people -or at the very least shouldn’t have feelings that could inconvenience or hurt others. He thinks it’s okay and normal for other people to verbally abuse him, having normalized that growing up. So while I agree he’d have that “I like Ethan; seeing with someone else sucks” bit, I feel there’d be an immediate rationalization of “My god, I’m such a scumbag, first I wasn’t good enough for Dorothy, and then I kept crushing on people while I was with Amber, even though one of them actually WAS Amber, and then I was crushing on her best friend and exboyfriend and then I became friends with him and now I’m begrudging him his happiness and why do I want to hurt everyone I come into contact with, I’m a failure of a human being” followed by an immediate locking-away of all feelings he found relevant to the situation, an attempt to be happy for Ethan (or at least look like it) and possibly a really, REALLY stupid action or several. Good reaction? No. Healthy reaction? No. Understandable reaction? Kinda.
Ah now that sounds more like the Danny I know (and the Danny who was blushing talking to Ethan a couple strips back) than the Danny who really has gotten over his interest in Ethan and will be perfectly happy seeing him date someone else.
Mike’s correct here. Him seducing Ethan would turn Danny into a whimpering jealous mess, at least internally.
Right. Which means it’s not going to be easy if he does find someone else for Ethan.
Though it might still make it easier to not hook-up with Ethan and thus hurt Amber.
Mike will demonstrate this if he does seduce Ethan – hurting Danny and not making it easier to not hurt Amber.
I mean, I think he will be fine with it, he doesn’t want to date Ethan right now anyway. Like, if Amber stopped being a factor and then Danny lost his opportunity to make a move I could see it, but I don’t really think Danny would get that worked up over it because then he’d just laser focus on someone else. Unlike the pettiness he’s displayed towards Dorothy he never actually dated Ethan. Like, Danny’s more invested in being in a relationship than being in a relationship with anyone in particular, I think. He’s dealing with Amber dumping him pretty well, unlike how he was basically in an angst coma when Dorothy dumped him.
I guess the way I’ve been seeing it is that the whole point of Danny confessing his attraction to Ethan was because he wasn’t going to let himself be ruled by those feelings anymore, and I feel like him still just being lovestruck over Ethan and being hurt at never being with him just kind of clashes with that, I guess? Like, all of that pride he took in asserting his identity really only mattered for Ethan revealing he thinks Danny’s hot, and he’s still allowing his feelings for Ethan to weigh on him, when for now I really don’t think those feelings have ever gone past “you’re nice and hot.”
I think he still does want to date Ethan right now, he’s just (they’ve just) decided it wouldn’t be right. I think the staring at each other blushing a couple of strips back, where Mike picked up on it, was an indication of that.
His confessing to Ethan was partly the culmination of his “I’m really bi” arc and partly him taking the initiative and partly not being ruled by those feelings. All important steps for Danny. But not being ruled by them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
He’s trying to do the right thing, because he’s Danny. It’s still going to hurt, probably more than he realizes.
And of course, Mike’s going to take that knife he was handed, stick it in and twist. Because Mike’s an asshole. But Mike’s still smart in his way. He’s right about it hurting.
I didn’t mean “he doesn’t want to date” as him being uninterested, that’s clear as day, I meant it more like he thinks that them being a dick to Amber matters more than his feelings for Ethan, so he’s just rolling with things for now.
For me, I guess it’s like, the important part is that Danny’s being honest with himself. He’s honest about his sexuality. He’s honest about his feelings for Ethan, and he’s processing them as healthily as possible. He’s letting himself be cute and flirty and blushy with him because “it’s never happening” so of course it’s okay for him to relax because Ethan’s just his friend with a glorious manchest, the opposite of how Amber was just his platonic friend he totally turned down and felt nothing romantic for until he got smacked in the face with the fact that he meant everything he said about her in front of his parents.
I dunno, I feel like Danny being “wounded” at the idea of Mike dating Ethan undermines his growth. Let alone because he and Ethan really aren’t that close yet, I just feel like it makes their previous interactions pointless for anything beyond setting Danny and Ethan up together.
My comment has nothing to do with trans anything. Mike’s shtick since Shortpacked is banging moms. All moms. Even dads if there is no mom available. Making him bi means he can cover all non-traditional families. That’s all I mean.
It comes off better when you say “even dads if there is no mom available.” Just because at first, it seemed like you were suggesting that one of the fathers would sort of be in the role of the mother/would be a “non-traditional mother.” This was a bit uncomfortable because of how people sometimes respond to families with two fathers or two mothers, assuming they must somehow have clear roles that respond to that of heterosexual parents. (Also implying, of course, that heterosexual parents have distinct roles.)
Also, what would Mike do if there was a family with two moms who were both lesbians?
Both of them, assuming Mike still has the same mom-banging power in this world. This is pretty canon in shortpacked. Moms get banged. There is no exception.
Pft, if Ethan was paying attention he’d have noticed that mike didn’t actually Boy Scout salute. I assume using 4 fingers is a bit like crossing your fingers behind your back. Amateur move; Ethan’s known mike for years in this universe.
Did we read the same strip? Yeah, it still says “I was waffling on whether to seduce you or Danny to turn the other into a jealous, whimpering mess.”
He might be into dudes, but he’s definitely an asshole. His stated motivation here is “to turn the other into a jealous, whimpering mess”, not “because you’re hot” or “because I’ve got a crush” or anything else normal.
I dunno, alt text. At this rate, he’s working hard to alienate his last two friends and push even further out of his remaining connections to the main characters.
True, but he’s rooming with Walky, so he’s still got that hold.
(Side note, I was wondering a couple days ago why Ethan and Mike weren’t rooming together, but then I thought about it and…it makes sense that they’re not.)
Of course everyone is assuming that Mike has a clue about how to seduce another man. Like some other characters Mike may overestimate his capabilities.
Its an inherent aspect of his character. He is as capable as he is and malevolent. The only wrench that could ruin his plans is if he realizes he actually does have feelings for Ethan.
So I’m guessing Mike will seduce Ethan in a way that ensures Danny finds out about it. Like catching them kissing in a hall or Mike walking shirtless out of Ethan’s dorm. Danny is hurt by this even knowing he shouldn’t be. Ethan is sorry even though he knows he shouldn’t be. Mike forces them to deal with the fact that they have deeper feelings for each other than they wanted to admit beyond just mutual attraction. Amber finds out somehow.
I think I agree with you. Mike manages to do some good out of all of his ‘assholery’ as its been called. He just has a rather underhanded way to do it.
He does seem to like to have some way of justifying his monstrous behavior in the end so I’m guessing the ripple effects of all this will probably be Danny and Ethan at least both aware of how they feel and Amber in therapy finally…probably not talking to any of them for a while.
I’ve seen that argued, but I don’t believe we’ve seen a single example of someone being in a better place because of Mike’s meddling rather than in spite of it. Not at least in this comic (other comic maybe, but this comic he’s been pretty consistently a force for awful).
I’m inclined to agree with you. For me, the nature of his malevolence here in DoA -the fact that whether it’s calculated, detailed planning or immediate action he automatically acts in a manner that preys on the weaknesses of others -and that he is innately skilled at recognizing and actively studies and categorizes such vulnerabilities (and focuses perhaps exclusively on emotional ones, rather than physical)…. I… honestly, having had bad run-ins with both types of people, I’d prefer dealing with the Ryans of the world -especially given that Mike seems to either prey on the emotionally vulnerable or somehow be ingratiating and pleasant enough when he chooses to that people are willing to continue “friendships” with him (remember, he initially came off as “uninterested, nonthreatening male” to JOYCE. Beginning of comic Joyce, who saw him as a respectable and reasonable chaperone despite barely knowing him). I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as “jerk with a heart of gold” back then, when he was a dick, but not as chaotically destructive. When he compared Amber to Blaine, I felt sketchy about still doing it but he was entertaining and sort of well-intentioned in the other ‘verse, and it might’ve been the kind of thing she’d once requested he say just in case he saw it happening, but… and now we’ve got this storyline.
Gonna be really interesting how he’s expanded as a character -if he’s part of a Willis spectrum (I mean that as a good thing -there’s multiple types of representation for all kinds of people in this strip, which makes it way more engaging) and exists purely as a new kind of asshole, or if he’s broadened out and shown to have good intentions BUT_____.
Yeah, as much as I have a lot of antipathy for how the character is now*, I would love to see him grow and change.
Either by realizing how he’s alienating his friends and how toxic his actions are and actually acknowledging the damage he’s already done or just seeing him fully encapsulate the villain he’s kinda already being and letting the other characters gain strength by defeating or separating themselves from him.
*Antipathy not at all helped by the fact that I’ve known a fair few Mikes and have had to pick up the pieces Mikes have created in others. One of my exes college boyfriends was the sort of “for the lulz” “amateur sociopath” “weaknesses and vulnerabilities are to be exploited” asshole that Mike embodies and I had to spend years undoing all the damage he did with all his emotionally abusive mind games and non-consensual d/s-ing.
But then he wouldn’t be “Funny” Asshole Guy which is basically his entire “character” at this point. Like being an utter bag of dicks is kind of all DoA Mike HAS.
I’m thinking, despite the commentariat freaking out about it at the time, that this was a positive good. It diverted Carol’s attention away from the issue at hand (interrogating Joyce about Becky’s whereabouts), and the fallout from it landed mostly on Walky, who doesn’t really need to give a shit about it.
Except it put Joyce in a more vulnerable position with her mom and strengthened her mom’s conviction that the university is a sinful harmful place for Joyce’s soul and we’ve seen the fallout of that this last weekend.
Again, it’s a case where all the positives were in spite of his actions and thanks to Walky’s quick thinking in intervening to protect Joyce and where the negatives were far longer lasting than Mike had any intention to cause.
I keep thinking about this, and I keep coming back tot he same conclusion: Not really, re: Joyce’s soul. She was going to be have this doubted, because she did two things far more important than what Mike did – she talked back (ever), and she defended the horrible gay sinner who got her father in prison. Then she was surly and improper at home. That is not even a blip on her radar, I suspect. And the simple fact was, SOMEONE had to do SOMETHING. That is a shitty way to compel a reaction from someone more level-headed, but they weren’t reacting without it. And they’d already academically heard “WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!” so saying it again isn’t helpful. So that’s two things I think he might have actually have had a positive outcome in mind (And indeed, Walky seemed to convincingly lie to get Joyce’s mom off her back after this.)
I agree with Cerberus here -I can maybe, MAYBE stretch to seeing that one as a “positive bad” (wrong thing that was kind of an immediate fix done for (I think wrong, but can conceivably be read as right, although it might be that he’s singled out Joyce as a weak/vulnerable/interesting to break person and has started fixating on acquiring her as a new “friend”/target, so let’s just not use any adjective here) reasons) where, as Cerberus said -the good came about despite, not because of, Mike -can you imagine what Carol would’ve said/done to Joyce if she’d answered? And who’s to say Joyce wouldn’t’ve broken down and given away everything then -I’m not calling Joyce weak, by any means, but she went through a LOT of her trials by fire and character growth and gained most of her ability to question her parents AFTER that strip happened. That one “joke” could’ve cost Becky dearly, and might’ve cost Joyce her future education, if it hadn’t been for Walky. Mike just gambled two futures for his own brief moment of amusement, as I read it -although it remains to be seen how consciously he did that.
I feel there are direct parallels between Ethan’s assumptions that Mike is his friend and Danny’s attempts to keep his friendship alive with Joe despite how hard Joe’s been trying to push him away in college.
Both are the attempt to keep a high school friendship alive in college because it’s been going for awhile, but in college, things have changed enough to see those friendships become more and more unsustainable.
And I think it’s what makes Danny and Ethan’s friendship so healing for both of them. Danny has found someone who doesn’t make him feel that his emotions and feelings are an imposition and is drifting away from Joe as a result. And Ethan is finding someone who doesn’t find his vulnerabilities as an excuse to attack and is starting to realize Mike might not be as solidly his friend as he thought in response.
And both Mike and Joe risk losing that friendship completely if they don’t similarly adapt or else acknowledge that the friendship has reached the end of its course and accept that.
Honestly, I don’t think Mike was ever Ethan’s friend. I get the sense that if you spend enough time near Ethan and interact with him, regardless of how, he’ll consider you a friend. His judgement is not good.
And he’s got low enough self-esteem that he’ll put up with a lot of abuse of that “friendship” and still consider it solid because he’s in canon terrified of ending up alone:
OMG I think I’m going to love this arc. Something about a guy seducing another guy just gets my attention, you know? I mean I know Mike has bad intentions but I’m still convinced that the universe will make good things come from this.
Malice and Malevolence and the team logo is two M’s across their chests? And then a third character joins them and they can add “meanness” and another M.
I want to see Mike and Mary interact, because I’m pretty sure it would be the exact opposite of a team-up. There’s nothing Mike likes more than revealing the depths of someone hypocrisy, and introducing Mary to him would be like throwing raw meat to a pack of velociraptors.
(Pack? Herd? School? I guess they come in flocks. They’re birds.)
I kinda get the impression that Mike can interact in any way he chooses, and that he chooses whatever way entertains him the most. He can definitely play people -and Mary can’t read them. It’s just a question of whether he’d feel the long con was worth it enough to pretend to be Mary’s kind of Christian long enough for her to be civil to him.
….okay, I just saw that and couldn’t help reading it in John Oliver’s voice because of his “#notmychristian” line and dear lord -Mary, Mike, and Fifty Shades…. >.<
I feel like Mary, as a shitbag, comes from a place of entitled self-righteousness. Mike, on the other hand, knows he’s a shitbag and continues to be a shitbag because he enjoys it.
Like, don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Mike as a person in this verse at all, and self-awareness isn’t a virtue if it doesn’t spurn you to improve, but Mike’s self-awareness would repel Mary like a vampire at garlic convention.
Nah. Mike’s an asshole, but often he’s specifically an asshole to people he views as hypocritical or pretentious. I could see him PRETENDING to work with Mary in order to humiliate her, but she seems like exactly the kind of person he’d want to break.
“A group of dinosaurs is called a herd (of plant-eaters) or pack (of meat-eaters).”
Also, dinosaurs aren’t birds- the predecessor of birds were dinosaurs.
Your logical structure is reversed.
Flip side, flock only became associated with birds in the 19th century, and while it has become a dominant term, it has some pretty erratic exceptions (eg, a flamboyance of flamingos, a parliament of owls, a murder of crows, a gaggle of geese, etc). Its initial application was toward humans, followed by sheep, then other domestic animals. (You still hear flock of sheep, but these days, being herbivores, you’d more often hear them referred to as a herd.)
Wrapping that all up, my point is that while it’s messy and erratic and meanings have changed, you can apply some basic guidelines now:
Herd for land-based herbivores, Pack for land-based carnivores, and Flock for *flying* birds. [Even though in practice it applies to several non-flying birds and certain domestic animals.]
School is for fish, so it totally doesn’t apply here. 😛
Actually, birds, taxonomically speaking, belong to the same group as dinosaurs. They are as closely related to a t-rex as many other dinosaurs were related to each other that day. By modern definition, birds are not just ‘descendants’ of dinosaurs. Birds, legit, no joke, paleontologists are in agreement, are dinosaurs.
Birds are dinosaurs, just like humans are mammals. Everything in a phylogenetic tree is still part of the same group that its basal forms were part of. So birds are dinosaurs, just like humans are hominids and apes and etc all the way back to mammals.
Most fundamentally, Mary has a goodly facade hiding wickedness, while Mike.. well, he quite enjoys his wicked exterior, but it does regularly hide underlying goodness.
But yeah, past that, as you say, Mike is pretty much the antithesis of hypocrisy.
For some reason I’m really into Mike having actual human emotions really really far down so I’m just gonna assume he had a thing for Ethan until proven otherwise.
or he just wants to go into things because he doesn’t have emotions and he hopes delving into the emotional extremes with others will help him experience some? just a thought.
I definitely think he’s got emotions far down, but I don’t think it’s a hidden crush on Ethan. I think he cares about his…well, if not “friend,” then “person who tolerates him” enough to, in his twisted way, force him to move towards doing what he actually wants to do (date Danny).
I dunno, the whole Danny/Ethan/Amber thing strikes me as two queer people putting aside their relationship because a straight person is more important, so that could color my impression of Mike’s actions, but if memory of It’s Walky and Shortpacked serves he’s got a track record of doing spiteful things in order to make people confront the lies they tell themselves (or others).
I understand why people are bothered by Mike’s dickishness – after all, we’ve never seen the gold heart that he has in Shortpacked! – but I never have been. He’s so over-the-top that, to me, that he transcends the “realism” aspect of the comic and goes straight into the “comicky” aspects, like how Amazi-Girl bends physics sometimes. He’s not realistically a dick, like Mary.
Which, again, I can understand why others would disagree, feel free, but I’m just kind of amused with Mike as less a person and more this abstract force of….something.
I agree with you, it’s just that sometimes Mike ends up being too real.
It’s the difference between Amazi-Girl ziplining onto a moving truck, and Amazi-Girl hunting down Sal to kick the shit out of her and justifying it by invoking legal drinking age laws.
That’s true, and I don’t mean to imply either that Amazi-Girl doesn’t have those real moments, which have been becoming more and more frequent of late.
To me, Mike, especially in the way we’re seeing here (but also in the “you are your abuser” incident with Amber) is one of the more terrifying real bits of the comic. I didn’t grow up with most of the other kinds of assholes we’ve seen in DoA so far, so they feel more …secondhand real, I guess. Like it’s a thing I know happens and don’t want to happen but don’t have personal experience with. People who find and track and manipulate your weaknesses and fears while holding you in a position of dependence on them somehow, mostly in the name of emotional bonds that probably only exist on your end? That…. that has always been a major part of my little corner of reality. I don’t understand the mindset that leads someone to act like that (I understand more than I want to, but not completely), but I’ve been on the receiving end of it, with the result that that’s my monster under the bed, more so than almost anything else.
Yeah, Mike’s “so if you’re not picking jerks then which one does that make you” is my number one pick for why Mike is just a total piece of shit, and it’s really annoying that so many people treat him as some ultimate purveyor of wisdom because of it.
It was like if that part of my brain that screams at me for not hating myself enough grew a stupid two dimensional haircut.
Okay, I’m not saying he wasn’t an asshole for saying it, especially at that point but…he wasn’t wrong. He was entirely right, Amber deliberately chose a boyfriend that she could walk all over and manipulate, a relationship where she had all the power and then went on to abuse it. It was a dickish observation but not an inaccurate one.
See, you’re right. And Mike being right about that and pointing it out in the worst way possible isn’t necessarily enough on its own to label him a scumbag. Amber may well’ve said something to her friends when her parents split about “don’t let me do that to myself” -and even if she hadn’t, she did need to be careful -Danny IS a doormat (or was then, at least), and Mike is particularly adept at finding that. But that doesn’t make Mike a good guy for pointing it out. The problem is that what he said’s in no way out of character for Mike -he constantly exploits emotional vulnerabilities for no apparent reason. And IIRC, he didn’t try to help or stay with her afterwards -he basically said, “yeah, you know your worst nightmare? You’re that for someone else, and if you’re not now, you’re going to be -or you can let it happen to you” and left, and that…. you don’t do that to someone you hate, let alone a friend -and an emotionally unstable friend? That’s… that’s a destructive level of sociopathy right there, I feel.
You know I kind of want to get into this again, but I think at this point I’ve kinda realized having these conversations about Amber, I’m really just trying to defend my own right to fuck up without it meaning I’m “becoming an abuser” or something.
That makes it worse. He’s weaponizing her weaknesses, which not only makes it sting more than if he were just pulling stuff out of his ass, but also makes it harder for her to actually deal with her problems cuz now she has to deal with his bullshit on top of her fears.
And yeah, I agree with Silamy. Current Mike is too similar and repeats too many tactics of real-life harassers, abusers, and awful people of the internet to really even be enjoyable as an asshole.
It’s just… yup, that’s a shitweasel edgelord alright.
For me, the critical difference between the two is that Mary seems to see other people as people -inferior people who need saving and can be fixed (except they can’t and wont be fixed and they’ll choose not to be and even if they are, a fixed thing isn’t as good as one that was never broken in the first place and that’s why her soul’s the best and always will be), but people. To her, other people’s feelings are (probably) real, even if they’re wrong and invalid. People have autonomy and they SHOULD listen to her because she’s best. Mike, however, comes across like he only sees other people and their emotions, actions, and reactions as toys. It’s not that they’re lesser, it’s that they’re straight-up irrelevant except in how he can manipulate and be amused by them. Mary derives pleasure from having power -the potential and ability to inflict pain -but only takes pleasure in using it when it will serve to remind others that her power exists -it’s mostly about how others perceive her. Mike derives pleasure from actually manipulating people and causing them pain -it’s entirely about that; their perceptions, of him and anything else, are meaningless save as tools he can use.
I do not think Mary sees people as people. She most certainly do -not- see LBGQT people as full people. At all. At -best- she sees them as “projects”, where she can turn them into -real- people (i.e. her style of fundie) because she thinks that will give her some gold stars with her deity. If she died tomorrow and came to the pearly gates*, she would expect to come in on the basis of “Well, I tried, didn’t I?” and not give a single fuck in the entire world if everyone she “tried to reach” would spend eternity in a lake of fire. She would probably derive pleasure from knowing it.
I mean, her reaction to hearing that Ruth was possibly suicidal was completely devoid of any concern at all about that. The only thing that went through her mind was how her glorious plans of blackmail went down the drain. Her head was so far stuck up her own ass that even as she realised how Ruth was suicidal, she -still only thought of how she no longer would have something to hold over Ruth’s head-.
How exactly is that different from Mike? Because from where I stand, that is somewhat less than “critical” and more into “microscopic” territory.
*One of the most popular pieces of fiction to mash up with other pieces of fiction.
Mike is definitely a lot more comical here, than in the core universe- there it was all too easy to interpret unusual behaviors in characters as being part of their rough upbringing, tragedies, and genetic tampering.
There, Mike seemed completely withdrawn from reality and yet wanting to affect a positive difference, so his actions seemed over-the-top but reflecting something deeper.
Here in Dumbiverse, without any excuses to his character [that we know of], and with a more crass presentation (as per today’s comic), he seems more.. a willful troublemaker that simply delights in anarchy and has little he himself values.
He’s still a delight, but he definitely seems more of a humorous caricature than a relatable person.
Then again, core universe implied he tortured animals, and whatever his excuses for the development of his personality, that definitely took things to an extremely dark and disagreeable place.
Rather, Mike was someone you had to assume as being primarily bark without bite, and fill in the blanks for- you did that, and core universe Mike was fantastic.
Here in DoA, it’s a lot harder to do that for the character, thus far.
Still, it’ll be interesting seeing how the character grows, and as I noted, he’s always fun to have pop up, if only to see how he throws relationship dynamics into chaos and the fallout from such. (ie, Deus Ex Mike-ina)
Mike is like the little voice in my head that says the worst thing to do, except all the rest of the parts of my head don’t furnish that impulse with plans that relate to reality. He’s like a really intelligent id.
Yeah, I have no idea how he actually expects to make this work. Ethan knows him and what he does better than anyone else in this comic. I guess if he likes a challenge he found one. But I don’t actual see him succeeding
I know I’m a bit of a broken record on this, but Mike in this more realistic universe as a regular 18-year-old kid really suffers for it and here he continues to just be that toxic shitty friend who makes everything worse for shits and giggles and everything about his characterization as currently exists just makes me hope that Ethan and Amber/AG can ditch this toxic asshole and let themselves heal from their abusive parents in a way that doesn’t have them looking behind their backs every five seconds or worrying that every new connection they make is gonna be Miked.
Ethan here is breaking my goddamn heart here. I mean, what he’s having to do here is beg his long-time “friend” not to harm a new important friend in his life, a complete civilian to Mike’s “games” simply because Ethan dared make the “mistake” of letting that friend cross Mike’s radar.
He even “cashes” in some of the respect he feels his long friendship with Mike (which has included Mike regularly poking at fresh wounds and even driving him back into the closet with his bullshit) has earned to beg Mike not to ruin his friend’s life.
And that he feels the need to. That he’s so used to his shitty emotionally abusive mother that he feels he needs this toxic asshole he doesn’t even fully trust not to try and emotionally hurt his friends in his life simply because he’s always been there is just tragic.
No person should ever have to feel they need to look over their shoulder to see if someone who calls themselves a friend is going to hurt the important people in their life. That dynamic is fundamentally abusive and awful and if there is one single solitary glimmer of hope, it’s that Ethan seems to be starting to realize that Mike is toxic and awful and does not actually do any of the things actual friends do.
I mean, let’s look at Mike directly. We know that when Ethan came out and his mom reacted brutally awfully, it was Amber and not Mike who took the hits to fight for his identity with her, despite her long-history of social anxiety. Where was Mike? Absent again. We know that Ethan has had a long history of supporting Amber, helping her pick up the pieces from all the damage her dad did to her and Mike was… absent again except when making things worse and awkward and ruining attempts to hang as a group.
We know his assholery has most harmed Amber and Ethan, driving one more into a toxic alter out of fear of becoming her father and one temporarily back into the closet. We have seen him provide not one lick of support for his two friends who’ve been going through tough times this last month outside of physically being present when Ethan recruits him to check up on Amber.
We’ve also seen how much healthier Ethan is when he’s not hanging out with Mike. We’ve seen how his friendship with Danny has allowed him to be more confident in his charm and sexuality. We’ve seen how his friendship with Joyce has helped him uncloset himself again. The longer he stays away, the more healthy he is, the closer he is to recovering from the damage his mom and dad have done to him.
And here’s Mike in the later panels plotting to ruin it by ingratiating himself more into Ethan’s life, to fuck with what little self-confidence he has and sleep with him simply because it’s a loophole of fucking with a guy who’s “crime” to Mike is existing near him and having an identity he feels he can exploit for the “lulz”. And the one who will be actually hurt is Ethan.
Cause having a long-time friend find you attractive and sleep with you all as a complicated way of saying fuck you and your begging for humane treatment is one of those things that really fucks with your self-confidence and your image of yourself as sexy. I mean, holy fuck.
I don’t get why you say Mike helped/pressured Ethan get back in the closet, if anything he was the first to call him out on what a bad decision that was.
Because Ethan went right back into the closet as a direct response to Mike teasing him over all the things he’s lost coming out as gay and right after ruining Ethan’s attempt to hang out with his old buddies by bringing up how his coming out ruined his friendship with Amber:
Like, it was clearly not his intention to cause that and he wasn’t trying to drive Ethan back into the closet, but he was using Ethan’s sexuality to fuck with him and hammer on his self-confidence so it’s not entirely unsurprising that Ethan just went “fuck it, I’m tired of losing things including the love of my parents because of this sexuality thing, so fuck the sexuality, fake straightness here I come”.
Yeah–Ethan was fretting that he was always going to be alone because he was gay, and instead of reassuring him that wasn’t true (which is what Amber would have done if she’d been in that conversation) Mike presented him with the dichotomy of “live a lie and be sexually unfulfilled” or “be honest and miserably isolated.” I don’t care if he said it in a sarcastic tone of voice; that’s the choice he presents and there’s nothing in what he says or Ethan’s experience to say that that second part isn’t as valid as the first. And then he judges Ethan for listening to him and deciding he doesn’t want to be alone.
With her unpredictability and her Amazi-Girl issues, Amber is kind of a toxic friend as well. Not intentionally one like Mike, but…she’s been emotionally abusive towards both Ethan and Danny when they’ve crossed lines that are either none of her business (Ethan dating Joyce as he tries to work out who he is) or nonsensical and unpredictable (everything involving how Danny has to interact with her vs. Amazi-Girl). Screaming, insults, the works. Then she feels bad about it later, so it’s supposed to be okay. And then two queer men who badly want to explore this side of themselves they’re acknowledging for the first time ever have to set their feelings aside because they’d hurt Amber’s feelings, they owe her their support (and their chastity), which in a comic that’s supposed to be very celebratory and inclusive for queer people feels really weird. A bi man and a gay man are literally putting aside their feelings for the benefit of a straight woman (one who just DUMPED one of them, no less).
I’m hoping Mike shakes this all up, because at this point Amber doesn’t need comfort by two 100% passive and supportive friends, she needs to see that her blow-ups have consequences and that Danny and Ethan have lives outside of her. I don’t want her to be a sobbing wreck on the floor, nor do I want Danny or Ethan permanently traumatized, but I want Mike to make them all acknowledge this whole house of cards (two men who are deeply attracted to one another awkwardly trying not to act on it for the benefit of a straight friend/ex-girlfriend who’s unhealthily trying to juggle two identities and lashing out at anyone who calls her on it) is fragile, dangerous, and doesn’t actually help anyone.
It’d be great if the three of them could just sit down at a table and work this shit out, but life doesn’t work this way. Mike is being an agent of chaos and change.
Danny didn’t confess his attraction to Ethan because he wanted him, he did it because he wanted to stop being ashamed of his sexuality. Like, Amber and Danny broke up earlier that day, and that was a relationship Danny took a lot of validation in. Danny even says outright that he’s not doing it so he can date Ethan, he’s doing it to remove his shame over being attracted.
As for them putting themselves on hold for Amber, Christ no. They both like her and they think them (ie: her best friend and her ex) dating would be mean to her. It’s generally kinda sorta not cool to get together with friends’ exes the day of their breakup.
Danny and Ethan are not in love with each other. They’re not spending every moment pining for their love to never be. They’re not castigating themselves for that shrill harpy. They’re friends and they’re crushing on each other, and they’ve both decided the feelings of a mutual friend matter more than a crush, and that’s about it.
Anyway, yeah, Amber’s in a bad place and she freaks out and does awful shit and explodes in guilt because of being in that bad place. It’s not the same as Mike going out of his way to make people miserable for his own enjoyment. Amber’s actions aren’t okay, she pretty much always takes those actions and uses them as more fuel for why she’s a terrible human being.
I feel I came off too antagonistic here, so I hope I can try this again.
Like, I went over this a lot on this page, but I really don’t see the way Danny/Amber/Ethan is going down as them castigating themselves over their ex. Like, it’s not that they won’t live without dating one another, it’s just that they’re interested in each other, but right now Amber’s feelings matter more than that crush and physical attraction. Once they get some time to realize that they want to give themselves a shot, and for Amber to be in a better place, they’ll be together.
And even if I disagree with you about Danny and Ethan unfairly stopping themselves over Amber, since Danny still caring for Amber and wanting the best for her makes me really happy, because what I’m used to is seeing queer dudes just blot out their girlfriends the first chance they get and I’m glad that DoA is showing that Danny still loves her a lot, I feel you. There’s not enough representation to go around, and we both deserve works of fiction that give us what we want sometimes, and I feel like DoA’s doing both. Like, right now Danny still cares for Amber and he’s taking pride as a bi dude and allowing himself to be attracted to a man, and also we’re gonna see these two get together down the line, probably not longer than maybe a year.
No worries, man, thank you for responding in the first place. Sorry I didn’t address your other well-thought-out response yesterday.
It’s funny, I hadn’t reflected on that assumption about bi guys…and I put up with a LOT of people saying “are you sure you’re not gay? Oh, you’re bi, honey that’s just a stepping stone,” etc. I’m married to a wonderful woman, but those assumptions that I’d jump straight to guys–when I hadn’t even done anything with guys yet!–led to YEARS of insecurity. It probably IS a healthier portrayal of a bi guy to not immediately toss aside the woman he cared (cares) about in favor of that hot Ethan bod.
Like I said the other day, I’m probably projecting a bit with them, because due to the aforementioned assumptions made about me by other people I actively avoided experimenting in college (probably the best setting to do it), so I guess I’m impatiently waiting for them to act on their desires and treating Amber like a divider that will forever keep them apart. I don’t like Danny saying he’s trying to find a dude for Ethan–strikes me as a bit “I Want My Beloved To Be Happy”–but given the blushes and smiles they’re exchanging, they probably do plan on trying this out at some point.
I’m judging Amber too harshly. Mental problems are serious business. I just dislike how Danny seems to be pinballing between people with power over him, if that makes any sense…Dorothy broke his heart (not saying that’s a bad thing, but it is someone sending him reeling), then he went to Amber who was a decent girlfriend but set down very strict, unhealthy rules for him to obey. He felt kinda like a puppy dog, passive and desperate for affection.
Ethan seemed to be the one place where Danny was actually taking the initiative, someone he was going to seek out on his own. I guess him admitting his feelings to Ethan is still taking the initiative and owning part of his life, though.
Holy crap, I’m going to repost this comment without my botched formatting (was trying to quote you in sections. I hate this commenting system!)
No worries, man, thank you for responding in the first place. Sorry I didn’t address your other well-thought-out response yesterday.
It’s funny, I hadn’t reflected on that assumption about bi guys…and I put up with a LOT of people saying “are you sure you’re not gay? Oh, you’re bi, honey that’s just a stepping stone,” etc. I’m married to a wonderful woman, but those assumptions that I’d jump straight to guys–when I hadn’t even done anything with guys yet!–led to YEARS of insecurity. It probably IS a healthier portrayal of a bi guy to not immediately toss aside the woman he cared (cares) about in favor of that hot Ethan bod.
Like I said the other day, I’m probably projecting a bit with them, because due to the aforementioned assumptions made about me by other people I actively avoided experimenting in college (probably the best setting to do it), so I guess I’m impatiently waiting for them to act on their desires and treating Amber like a divider that will forever keep them apart. I don’t like Danny saying he’s trying to find a dude for Ethan–strikes me as a bit “I Want My Beloved To Be Happy”–but given the blushes and smiles they’re exchanging, they probably do plan on trying this out at some point.
I’m judging Amber too harshly. Mental problems are serious business. I just dislike how Danny seems to be pinballing between people with power over him, if that makes any sense…Dorothy broke his heart (not saying that’s a bad thing, but it is someone sending him reeling), then he went to Amber who was a decent girlfriend but set down very strict, unhealthy rules for him to obey. He felt kinda like a puppy dog, passive and desperate for affection.
Ethan seemed to be the one place where Danny was actually taking the initiative, someone he was going to seek out on his own. I guess him admitting his feelings to Ethan is still taking the initiative and owning part of his life, though.
For what it’s worth, Danny isn’t trying to find Ethan a boyfriend to smother his feelings for him, it really is that he likes Ethan, but because right now both think they don’t want to date, he wants to do something nice. He’s letting himself be comfortable with his feelings for Ethan and not judging himself for them anymore, but eventually he’s not gonna be okay with “just” being friends, and when that comes he and Ethan are going to pursue it because they realize they’re worth pursuing, and that them being together isn’t going to break Amber’s heart.
I guess why I really enjoy that is because I also kind of realized on my own that I did like guys. I’ve never been with a guy, and it’s possible I never will, so it’s been really, really great for me to see Danny make all this progress and mature and take pride in his sexuality without needing, like, “proof” for it to work. I’ve experienced a lot of insecurity over whether I can say I’m “really bi”, so Danny plowing through all those hurdles because he was tired of being ashamed of them, I just really loved it.
And, yeah, that’s fair about Amber. I sympathize with her a lot because we suffer from a lot of the same issues when it comes to boxing emotions out of a need to try and make up for abusive childhoods, but she has made a lot of mistakes. She’s not dealing with her trauma and her issues well, and it’s causing her to do really dumb stuff and lash out, and instead of recognizing that it’s okay to lash out because sometimes you snap after a lifetime of abuse, she just puts it in a box and uses it as motivation for why she needs to keep doing the exact same thing, and, well, yeah, that’s me too. A lot about Amber’s struggles feels reflective of my own experiences, so that’s probably why I’m so willing to leap to her character’s defense.
Being disappointed that Danny and Ethan aren’t together yet is fair, and my disappointment that Danny and Amber broke up and they’re not gonna be cute and read slash fic together for all eternity is fair too, because that’s bi representation for ya. There’s just not enough to go around, so we’ve got 10 different people with 20 different views on what they want to see because we’re so starved for good bi characters that Danny ends up having to live up to all of them.
Like, this is why I feel Mike is to familiar to real-life assholes to be enjoyable in this universe. Ethan makes a genuine plea full of empathy and appeals to mutual friendship. What’s Mike’s response?
Treating it as some big huge thing. Oh, Danny’s untouchable, ungh. Here, I’ll make a scout swear that’s completely disingenuous to show how grand this request of me is, even though what’s being asked is like the baseline minimum of any actual friendship (don’t fuck over my friends for shits and giggles is literally the least you can ask of a friend or hell, even an acquaintance, it can literally be done with the absence of effort).
And it’s all a lie, but that action of treating a minor appeal for humanity as if this is some huge onerous ask and then justifying not doing that, to the point where he straight up frowns and passively glares at Ethan’s retreating back is something real life assholes do all the time. It’s deeply familiar from the times I had to beg for humane treatment despite being trans from assholes who acted like not discriminating against me or trying to harm me was some great big ask.
And I hate to see Ethan go through that here. He deserves better than this shit stain in his life. He deserves better than to have to beg for the bare minimum of humane treatment.
He deserves a friend who is actually his friend and actually values his company.
And until Mike sorts his shit out, he deserves no friendships until he can actually be something other than a toxic scumsucker to anyone who “dares” be close to him.
Thank you for taking the time to write today’s (and all other days’, really -I always enjoy reading your comic response posts, because of how articulate, well-thought-out and emotional they are) comic response. I’m sad and horrified that you’ve had to deal with this kind of shit -that anyone has had to, really, although there’s a tiny element of something almost like relief that someone else _gets_ it, that I’m not completely nuts. You’ve articulated here a number of things that bother me not only about Mike, but about people in my own life in clearer words than I have ever managed, and as someone who struggles with articulating anything, especially pertaining to feelings, I can’t begin to express how much I appreciate that additional clarity -as well as a way to start explaining to other people in my life who _do_ care and try to help.
Here are a number of internet hugs of sympathy and appreciation; I will be leaving them at the bottom of the post to be taken by anyone who needs or wants them. (because hugs are great, but they don’t help anyone and freaking people out by trapping them against their wishes is Not Right.)
Without Mary, I’d be pretty sure part of why I can actually like Mike is this has exactly nothing to do with any asshole I’ve ever dealt with. It’s far more long term than any asshole I’ve ever known RL. They just went for the most immediate strikes they could. They didn’t have plans or patience. Just the knowledge they could only go so far at any given time without alienating everyone else, but at worst only deal with occasional appeals to their humanity elsewise. Which was about as successful as it was with Mike (Less, really).
But then, that’s Mary, and I like her as a character, so eh.
And until Mike sorts his shit out, he deserves no friendships until he can actually be something other than a toxic scumsucker to anyone who “dares” be close to him.
He should take an involuntary sabbatical in the Amazon.
I honestly think Mike even being interested in seducing Ethan proves this whole thing is more than just Ethan and Danny both thinking the other is hot. Isn’t Mike supposed to be some kind of human bullshit detector ready and willing to throw it in people’s faces? Shouldn’t he know Danny wanting Ethan to hook up with someone else is bullshit? If he sensed Danny didn’t actually care what fun would this be for him? How would he turn either into a jealous mess unless he could somehow sense in that brief interaction that there was more going on here than what they’re saying on the surface?
(Of course, this is in the midwest, so there is likely some genuine product around somewhere. Does IU have a veterinary program that turns city kids in fake farm kids as the first step? I am told Texas A&M does.)
Texas A&M is part of a system of land grant universities designed to have programs in “agriculture and the mechanic arts” (hence the name A&M) – Purdue is part of this system, IU is not.
100% this, assuming his characterization is still like he was in It’s Walky! and the limited amount of Shortpacked! I read. He’s an agent of chaotic assholery, sure, but sometimes what drives him to action is a desire to call someone out on their bullshit.
I have noticed that in Shortpacked, Mike beats up Ethan several times throughout. This would be okay (for a certain factor of okay), except for the fact that Mike can bench press a car. Yet, Ethan remained both alive, and uncrippled! Either Ethan is way more durable then we think he is, or whenever Mike punched someone he was actually hitting them lightly as possible.
I know, right? Like, holy fuck is that one of the most depressing lines in the comic and that’s saying something considering one of the characters in the comic is a depressed woman who’s currently suicidally ideating.
ok honestly curious how is it depressing? I mean I kind of do that with my friends since i know from experience people can go from friend to person who never acknowledges you exist in less than a day. knowing the percent makes it hurt less when the shift eventually happens.
Because the unspoken 40-50 percent isn’t Ethan thinking Mike might be an acquaintance or someone more distant from him, it’s him realizing Mike might be a straight up enemy and someone who mostly just hangs out with him because Ethan is “foolish” enough to let Mike continually try and ruin parts of his life.
You’re making a lot of false equivalences here. If you think someone might be an enemy even after knowing them for half a decade then you should cut your loses and get outta there.
And this is especially true of friendships. If you can only be barely over half sure that a friend is actually a friend and isn’t just an enemy after having known them for years, that’s a major red flag of some serious toxicity and that it’s time to cut your losses.
On the one hand, Machiavelli said to keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
On the other hand, Machiavelli was talking about controlling a city, and the only city Ethan wants to control is made up of multiple Metroplexes and Trypticons.
So, yeah, ditch Mike as a friend. …. if he even CAN be ditched.
That kind of happened when he tried to fuck with Walky and Dorothy in Gender Studies, and instead they ended up sealing the deal in response to him being a shit.
If you mean that he’s intending to get them together, probably not. That makes sense if he’s doing this to spite Amber, but here’s two dudes crushing on each other, and Mike seems invested in banging one so they’re both miserable.
IF you mean Danny and Ethan overcoming Mike’s bullshit and getting together in spite of it, that may happen. In all honesty, I really just want them to be something that develops on its own time without any Mike-fueled “now kith” stuff. Like, I’m hoping whatever Mike is doing just ends up being something they both brush off and we get back to them being cute and flirty and eventually realizing that, oh shit, dating you would be fun after all.
That’s my ideal hope as well. Mike is kind of the monkey wrench that this nicely developing cuteness really doesn’t need, because their current pace actually suits both their needs really well in healthy ways.
Honestly, I’m glad he’s doing this. We might see something of Ethan/Danny before I’m on life support (Or see them really bury things, which suits me fine too, since it’s not the holding pattern of two days ago). Because they flatly /need/ a catalyst, because of Amber. So if Willis’ goal is to get Ethan/Danny together or buried, then he is in fact being a human plot device. Mike’s goals are immaterial to me, incidentally.
I mean, I was kinda hoping that catalyst would just be them eventually realizing the whole “never ever ever” line was dumb and that they did like each other and they wanted to give themselves a shot. Like, oh shit I do like you, and you know what, I’ve also realized that dating you isn’t going to ruin Amber’s life (I also figured we’d actually seem them start working towards things after the Dark Amazi-Girl Saga was over, but who knows).
Willis doesn’t really do time skips. That’s a really understandable catalyst. But that takes more than, let’s be charitable, and say 3 days, to figure out. 3 days is a /long/ time, and it’s sort of the best case. You’ve rightly mentioned that IMMEDIATELY exitting a relationship and into another has issues. You’re right, under normal circumstances. How much better is ‘a week’, under the circumstances? (Obviously for Danny on his own entering a relationship, that’s fine, it’s the Danethan thing that is a little dicier)
This’ll let something happen like, before the end of next year. That’s a long time to tease us with either the inevitable or the never happening.
That’s a good way of looking at it. I think I’m looking at this as, like, Mike immediately throwing them into the realization that they’re super into each other and want to date now or something, rather than him just complicating the situation.
Oh, IC Mike is still being a titanic dick. I’m speaking of his narrative role, not his in-universe appearance.
Mike MIGHT be trying to get them together I guess. I don’t know. But what he’s TRYING to do is irrelevant next to his actual narrative role for what I’m saying.
So, a catalyst could be useful here. But, why Mike? Why not someone who has *just now* demonstrated a willingness to “rip off that stupid band-aid for [anyone]”? Who doesn’t by all appearances do every action for the sole purpose of making everyone as miserable as possible?
I now have this picture of Carla on an anti-drama rampage. Just solving all of the problems, one after another. Who else will pitch in cookies for her?
Yeah, the trouble with Mike’s plans backfiring is that it gets used as an excuse for Mike – That’s what he wanted all along, see how much good he does by being an asshole.
I feel like this, more than anything, would actually end up blowing up in Mike’s face. Seducing either one is doing his Mike thing to both of them, and following through on the thought is proving that he’s not Ethan’s friend.
I did an archive search, it looks like Mike has not once actually called Amber and Ethan friends of his (or at least not in comics where both he and Ethan are on-panel together) and usually its Ethan arguing that they are or recruiting him to help him check-in with Amber.
How often has anyone explicitly called someone else friend? It’s a particularly weird way to phrase the argument, when you should actually be using the way the characters interact with each other.
That being said, the content of this page has Mike claiming that he is Ethan’s friend, in panel 3. Panel 5 then calls into question whether he was lying(which he’s said he doesn’t usually do cause it doesn’t effectively get him what he wants) or he hasn’t thought through that either course of action ultimately leads to the same result.
Note: Nobody is saying that Mike isn’t a shitty friend, but that’s actually different from saying that he’s not their friend. Sometimes people have toxic relationships, and even if somebody sits down and says it would be healthier if you just cut those ties, that doesn’t make it easy to do. I was just pointing out that Ethan’s seemed to have reached a point where he’s holding the scissors, and Mike is walking into a Morton’s fork that will force that cut.
Ok, I usually find Mike kind of fun, in a guilty pleasure “He’s an ass, but he’s an over the top one and sometimes he says what I’m secretly thinking in his observations” kind of way. But no, Mike, no. I get it’s a whacky Mike plan, and maybe it will turn out alright for Ethan and Danny through various high jinks, but that doesn’t really redeem Mike for being this much of an asshole. Don’t fuck with people like this, especially when they’re trying to make life choices that make them feel stable and good, even if Mike does think he can push Ethan/Danny together through this, which, I’m not even sure Mike really cares if that happens as long as he gets to make chaos. Fucking with Danny by fucking with Ethan is almost worse than just fucking with Danny directly, especially since Ethan just asked Mike not to pull his Mike BS. I’m not even amused by Mike right now, I’m just irked by him.
Granted, yeah, I would never say Mike is a likable “person”, rather an interesting character, but even in the last comic, at least his observations were right. Awful and self serving, but a refreshingly objective perspective. But this kind of crap is what reminds me that Mike is a sporadic guilty dalliance because of his analytical observations, but he’s not actually an enjoyable one.
Why do everyone think it’s likely that Mike sees that plan through? Seems more like stories he builds in his head because he’s bored than anything else, honestly.
Yeah that’s my feeling in general. This goes too far, but that’s not something that concerns Mike. I guess this time around he’ll have to deal with Ethan’s ex girlfriend though (Joyce) unlike in the Walkyverse.
i’m just going to sit here in my trashcan of -mangled gasp- “did that just Happen” -noms popcorn- *WIDE EYES*
i don’t. i don’t have any justifications. if mike were a real person i would hate his guts. as he’s a fictional character i don’t feel the same way
this is a trash situation. this is trashy, trashy soap opera drama, and it’s not going to end until gentlemen are sipping high tea in between sordid bouts of sex and your mom jokes while amazigirl watches for great justice from the vents so that amber doesn’t have to and takes notes for better fanfiction accuracy
this is all, technically, Terrible, but i still feel a profound and uncanny sense of glee that i cannot rationally or morally justify which is bewildering???
also i think this might be the first time the comic passed the reverse-bechdel test
the bechdel test is if you can consume a media and two women talk about something that isn’t about men.
the reverse bechdel, then, would be if you can consume a media and two men talk about something that isn’t about women. failure on this point is more remarkable than success because it’s so rare
I have this feeling that Mike has started something that may have wildly unpredictable consequences that he cannot predict or even imagine at this stage.
I really, really don’t get all the antipathy towards Mike. When Carla’s being an asshole, it’ll all “Go, girl”, but when it’s Mike, it’s like “He’s a jerk with no feelings and no excuse”. Strange.
Carla’s an asshole. She’s an asshole who will have to deal with a lot of shit in her life that most people won’t, and she certainly doesn’t work to endear herself to others, but most of the stuff that gets (and unfortunately, will likely continue to get, as her life goes on) thrown at her isn’t her chickens coming home to roost, and is based instead solely on uncontrollable aspects of her body and mind not having been exactly the way they were expected to be. Carla is obnoxious and loud, but she doesn’t actively go out of her way to make people’s lives worse (until and unless they’ve targeted her) -and in fact honestly cares about others, sometimes even when they’ve hurt her (no matter how much she doesn’t want to).
Mike works to destroy people. Mike goes out of his way to find the things about people that hurt them most and find ways to use them to hurt them more -a trait he had in the other ‘verse, where it was mitigated somewhat by his overall goodish intentions and near-universal positive-outcome rate -as well as his ability to be a nice person on occasion.
As for the comments… I’ve seen people call out Carla a lot more than Mike, although there’ve been a few strips like today where he’s been particularly out of line, but my guess is that it’s about who they go after. Carla targets Mary, who is a nearly-universally disliked character both in- and out- of comic; a posturing, hypocritical, malevolent, manipulative bully who’s openly targeted not only Carla herself, but Ruth at her most vulnerable in a manner that poses a threat to Becky. Beyond that… she stood up for her favorite cartoon when Walky dismissed it and picked a fight and threw a minor insult at Dorothy in the process, but she hasn’t really done much beyond that that worsened anyone’s lives.
Mike, however, has caused or tried to cause hurt/problems for Danny, Ethan, Amber, Walky, Dorothy, and Joyce (and Joe? The date of Doom?) (one could also argue Becky -I believe I did somewhere above) -and that’s just off the top of my head -and with few possible (not given, just possible) potentially benign or benevolent intentions that could be ascribed to him. He targets vulnerable, well-liked and well-developed (on grounds of screentime, I mean) characters in their weak spots. So yeah, I doubt I’d find either of them a likable person in person, but I feel there’s a difference of orders of magnitude in their jerkness.
Carla’s a porcupine. She will (metaphorically) fuck you up if you fuck with her, but only if you fuck with her.
Mike, on the other hand, is a cassowary. He is dangerous simply to be around, and if you get too close to him, he’ll go after you just because you’re there.
What I mean is: Carla’s assholitude is a defense mechanism, while Mike’s is just pure aggression. Carla doesn’t particularly enjoy hurting people, even her most hated enemies (see why her retaliation against Mary caused Mary no lasting harm, and just bruised her ego a little bit), and if they get hurt by her, it is purely their own actions that cause the pain. Mike, on the other hand, practically exists for the sole purpose of hurting people.
Carla tries to be seen as an asshole, because, in her mind, being seen as an asshole is safer because no one fucks with an asshole. Whereas Mike actually just is an asshole and a bully and tries to hurt people in his life and who drift across his radar, because he’s bored and dissatisfied and angry all the time and so doesn’t really much care who he hurts as long as it’s someone.
And we see that in the rest of their characters. Carla makes a lot of noise about being an asshole, but can’t sustain it. When people are hurting, she tends to be there trying to care for them as best she can. She’s deliberately non-violent and the only big time she’s really gone after someone, it was against someone who deliberately targeted her for harassment and abuse because of her identity and instead of trying to ruin that person’s life, she focused her revenge scheme entirely on trying to send a message that her humanity is not something she is going to compromise on.
Even in minor asshole moments like telling Rachel she’ll make her ringtone “All Star”, she restrains it to when people are teasing her or people who are openly antagonistic to her.
Whereas Mike actively tries to ruin people’s lives and openly ruins them not because they do anything to Mike, but because they won’t. He deliberately goes after people already conditioned to not fight back to defend themselves and shies away from situations where he could genuinely stand to lose something fucking with someone. And chooses the targets for his abuse based solely on them passing by his radar and existing physically close to his presence. And he often harasses people using their identities or insecurities as a weapon leaving lasting damage or putting people in worse circumstances for knowing him.
And unlike Carla, Mike doesn’t really have a good heart underneath it all (or if he does, he hasn’t shown it in this comic universe at least), to the point where even his closest “friend” has to beg him not to ruin the lives of those he’s close to, because that’s a genuine consequence of having Mike as a “friend”.
It’s really comparing apples and oranges at that point to say, “well, they’re both assholes so why do people like one and not the other”, because it’s like the difference between liking the gruff, but lovable reluctant hero and liking the straight out villain.
I love your choice of analogies. Also think it’s interesting that a porcupine can accidentally cause damage if you get too close and freak it out, whereas a cassowary actually has to (but will) try to bring the pain.
We haven’t seen Carla cause much accidental pain from being freaked out by someone, but I wouldn’t be surprised – she’s got the bullying victim armor of abrasiveness up in full force. I know before I was comfortable enough with people to stop trying to be abrasive all the time, I did cause my share of accidental hurt, simply because someone would be nice to me, I’d assume they were pulling some trick on me and react accordingly, and the other person (who genuinely did have good intentions) would be left confused and hurt that I responded as if they were trying to fuck with me.
Would not be surprised at all if Carla does that to Joyce and/or Dorothy if either of them tries to befriend her (Especially Joyce. Because, well, Joyce. She means well, but on stuff she’s yet to re-evaluate her beliefs on, she hits every single “dangerous disingenuous asshole bigot” red flag there is. I would not blame Carla at all for assuming Joyce is just a smilier Mary – because smilier Marys exist, and if you’re constantly under fire the way I’m sure Carla is, extending the benefit of the doubt becomes a risk you can’t emotionally afford to take.)
It’s also possible that people that hate on Carla but love Mike are just slightly bigots. Or is possible that they’ve dealt with Carla’s brand of assholery but not Mikes, and as such think Mike’s is just a caricature.
The difference is mostly that Mike loves being an asshole. If he has to go the extra mile to be an asshole, he will be that asshole. No cause is too great for his assholery!
Also, his targets are usually innocuous, average people. No one that’s harmed him, he’s just dicking with people because… just because.
Carla assholery usually is a response to other people being an asshole to her, or at least being mildly rude to her. She doesn’t really care about anyone else, so she won’t go out of her way to go after them.
Meanwhile, Mike would kick Jesus in the nuts, just because he can.
…in retrospect, I’m a bit surprised WalkyVerse-Mike never did kick Historical Jesus in the nuts…
Carla definitely wants the reputation of being one though, like how she wanted people to think she was cool enough to be the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit.
Exactly. Carla’s really pretty lousy at it. She talks it up. She’s obnoxious. She apparently pulls sweet pranks, though the only one we’ve actually seen was on Mary and completely justified.
Behind the facade of asshole, she keeps helping people – treating Amber’s wounds, looking after Ruth, etc.
Behind Mike’s facade? Nothing, near as I can tell.
Unless pointing out inconsistencies and (perceived) hypocrisies can be classed as “helping.” One horrid little unfiltered person with whom I once shared workspace called it “just bein’ honest.” Sure did hate it, though, coming back.
I think there’s a difference between the levels of asshole Carla will carry out and what Mike is proposing here. Carla’s not going to sleep with someone just to get a bit of revenge while Mike seemingly would.
And not even revenge. Just to make the closest thing he has to a friend miserable.
This isn’t like Carla playing a prank on Mary – this is Carla screwing Sal over.
I dunno, I would wager Mike selects his targets for specific reasons. I mean look at how much time was dedicated to targeting Walky – all because he annoyed him when he tried to sleep and such.
I could see Ethan being a target because of how he’s been acting lately. I could see that annoying Mike as well. Plus getting under Danny’s skin could get under Dorothy’s and thus back at Walky AGAIN.
Eh, I feel that’s a bit of a stretch. His targets seem to be based on proximity more than reasons. Like, he targets Walky a lot because Walky shares a room with him. And he targets Dorothy because she’s sleeping with Walky and thus exists in his room on occasion or hangs out near him. He targets Ethan because Ethan’s a friend and tries to hang out with him.
Hell, he’s only decided to really go after Danny here because Danny existed near him and “gave him” something he felt he could exploit.
And only fucked with him the first time because he went through all the trouble of stalking behind Walky and Dorothy early in the morning during the shoes drama for the express purpose of fucking with both of them and decided to add Danny to that list because he now existed in proximity to him.
In that, he’s not dissimilar to Mary in that a lot of commenters will make excuses for him arguing he’s trying to do good or he’s motivated by more than just the physical proximity of his targets and out of some real grievances mostly related to the reality of having to co-exist with other humans, but what really bothers him is other people exist around him.
Well, that was a rather important chain of messages. But I really get the feeling that people are not referring to Dumbiverse Mike. I re-read every strip he’s appeared on, and ultimately, he did nothing damaging. He said stuff but never acted on it.
What I see is a guy being largely dismissed and ignored, surrounded by people too caught up in often unnecessary drama to even pay mind to his presence, and who’s immature in his own ways. Such as being provocative to get people’s attention, being cut and dry about their shortcomings. Nothing worth being subjected to repeated physical violence (which he has been), to which his responses were only sarcasm and withdrawal, might I add, not retaliation.
So a total asshole unworthy of any recognition, really? I think you’re blindly siding with the agressor, there. I’ve seen people say he’s an unworthy friend, but I feel a lot more like he should hang out with people who give him more credit.
So… What is Mike? I’m thinking aromantic pansexual – he doesn’t have any hang-ups about who he has sex with but there is never an emotional content to it. Additionally, I suspect he is a nihilist with the interesting edge that being beaten for his actions actually serves as a validation for him as it proves (in his mind) his personal philosophy that the world is a place of hypocrisy, cruelty, stupidity, short-sighted selfishness, evil and nothing else.
I’m thinking aro ace, or maybe demi or grey. Sexual attraction just doesn’t seem to be a factor in his choosing a target for sex at all, and I’m willing to offer that it’s because he’s never really felt it.
Granted, that means I share my sexual orientation with Mike… but I’m wiling to make that sacrifice for the sake of truthiness
Definitely not ace, Amber can get him going. It’s only been shown once in this universe but since sexuality carries over from the other and they had a rather intense and enthusiastic sex life…
He made a comment about AG straddling him and holding him down -Mike being really into BDSM …. I’m trying to say that it seems like a thing he’d get off on just given how much emotional pain he seems to enjoy causing, but I can’t figure out how to do it in a way that doesn’t suggest that anyone who’s into any of that would also be into acting like Mike.
Might go beyond just emotional. Cerberus brought up how playing Walky and Danny off against each other could’ve led to violence, and Amber’s activities as AG aren’t doing her any favors -add in that people in substantial emotional pain often take it out upon their meatsuits….
Seriously? Maybe he had just been subjected to sudden unjustified physical assault and simply defended himself with sarcasm. Getting tired of this black an white (well, mostly black) vision of Mike. It gets old really, really quickly.
Thank you. I’m a little amazed at this sudden vitriol for a character who’s been The Asshole in every single comic in the Walkyverse. Particularly given I’m supposed to forgive acts of unprovoked assholishness or violence from other characters in the strip. Ruth straight-up slapped Mary in the face, anybody remember that, or the time she clotheslined Billie? How about that Amazi-Girl attacking Mike thing, eh? We gonna just handwave her suddenly assaulting him? How about Carla skating in the hall disturbing people, then doing PARKOUR to disturb people? How about almost all of Sal and Malaya’s interactions?
There’s a ton of antagonistic or outright mean behavior in this comic I’m supposed to either laugh at or dismiss. But Mike, oh man, can’t let that slide. I’m honestly more than a bit annoyed by it.
I just realized that Dumbing of Age can cause some really bad FRIDGE HORROR (see tv tropes) moments like realizing that if things from here carry over to the original useses.
1. Ruth probably committed suicide deliberately while saving Danny.
2. Amber in Shortpacked probably was attracted to Mike because of how he reminded her of her father’s abusive assholery.
Regarding 2, that’s explicitly stated in the text. They bang, and then Mike says “You fucked me because I remind you of your abusive father.” then he leaves.
Amber tried to prove to herself that she had overcome her father, and by dating Mike, the biggest asshole in the universe, she could do so. What neither of them actually expected was for it to become something genuine.
i’ve been thinking about it and here’s the end Theory of Mikeness:
what Mike does is manipulation and emotionally shitting on people. but, unlike Amber’s abusive father, he uses his manipulation not to control people but to be as much of an asshole as possible. to the point that after a while it stops being “oh wow i feel like shit” and starts being “oh that’s just Mike, feeling like shit means he wins”.
if you are someone used to being in an abusive situation, that is almost like relief. because instead of the end result being “oh i have to suffer through being beat up emotionally mentally and sometimes physically at somebody’s whims”, it has a much more direct result. Mike is the dude who has the urge to shit all over everyone’s day like a cat who can’t control its bodily functions, and that shit is both the end and the beginning of his goals.
so you can strap a diaper to the Mike-cat, knowing that it’s going to annoy the crap out of him and eventually he’ll find a way out; or, because it’s all emotional shittiness and not physical shittiness, you can find a way to just not care what he does. you own your space and your boundaries and he can’t touch you in there. you just have to get your shit in order so that everything he says bounces off you like teflon. which is what Amber did in Shortpacked.
[tangent: he literally proposed to her using her mom’s sex noises. I don’t. I can’t. that’s fucked up in the grossest of ways. and hilarious, because for a long time Amber’s mom did…not have a good time of it. but liiike???]
idk he’s both a missing stair and that asshole you can’t get rid of. in shortpacked it made more sense because he worked at the store. here it makes less sense because it’s college and he doesn’t really have to be a part of anybody’s social circle. they can stop talking to him anytime they want
mike kinda reminds me of a ex-friend who i cut off but i still love when he’s in strips. some people just want to watch the world burn, and i’m one of them
Thank you for the return of Mike! I love it even more because he seems to be similar enough to the original timeline’s Mike to really enjoy his shenanigans!
…. but A) they’ve already admitted their feelings, B) Mike’s trying to torment them with their feelings rather than liberate them, and C) these aren’t good works.
Arguably the real admission here would be “actually I don’t want you to get with some other dude and I’m sure there’s a way to make us happen without hurting Amber”. Whether or not that last bit’s actually possible, who knows.
Also note that Mike wasn’t in the previous conversation. All he knows at this point is “these dudes want to bang so hard they’re like trinitroglycerin.”
Mike’s an asshole with either an aversion to people bullshitting around or who sees people bullshitting around as an opportunity to a constructive outlet to his assholery.
Of course, sometimes he’s just an asshole (see the time he sneaked his books into Walky’s backpack); other times, he’s a constructive asshole.
honestly if you want an asshole who channels their assholery into good works i think that’s Carla
i feel like for Mike assholery is the end and beginning of his motivations but it’s hard to say because he really doesn’t talk about his own feelings very much
Ehhh, Carla mostly fails at being an asshole. Even if she didn’t, she’d be an asshole who did good works, unrelated to her (potential) assholery. She’s certainly someone who’s tired of bullshit, though.
Predictably, this will end well for Mike. Of course everyone else in this strip grows and suffers and becomes a better person (or else gets used for comeuppance, like Mary or Toedad), but Mike’ll just keep chugging along because he’s not written as a human being. He’s not. Hence keeping his super-cartoonish character design.
That’s pretty much why he’s such a good part of the cast. At the same time contrasts the rest of the cast, and doesn’t drain focus from the other characters.
I just… have such a hard time seeing Mike as anything but cartoonish here. Like, yeah, his attitude is disturbingly realistic, but his PLAN is to… seduce Ethan??? Really??? HOW?????????
Like… Ethan knows him, knows him well, and doesn’t appear even remotely attracted to him. Ethan would know what he’s trying to pull – or at least that he’s trying to pull SOMETHING…
He’s a lying liar who lies, though. That ‘technical interpretation’ doesn’t remotely work as fulfilling your promise. If anything, sleeping with Danny to hurt Ethan would have been closer to the spirit of it – this plan is EXPLICITLY to reduce Danny to a mess.
well if i was in mikes shoes and planning to do some seducing in this setting my first step would be to wait for a while for ethan to calm down before making a move on a mild level while at an event that ethan enjoys but maybe doesn’t get to indulge in often if ever.
And in that setting as someone who has known ethan for so long i would have insight on his inner workings of what he hides vs doesn’t and using that make a move during something he has to hide enjoying while reassuring him lightly that “I don’t give a fuck if you like it”
Walkyverse Mike is somebody’s father.
Walkyverse Mike is somebody’s father. Walkyverse Mike is somebody’s father! WALKYVERSE. MIKE. IS. SOMEBODY’S. FATHER!!!
–This is what runs through my brain after reading that last panel.
Dumbiverse’s Blaine and Ross are somebody’s fathers, too, and there’s no comparison between Mike’s doings and theirs. Parenthood most certainly doesn’t preclude shittyness.
Mike, Mike, Mike, you disappoint me. Sexcapades are so uncreative, so… unsubtle. You have the material in your hands to create a cenote of of angst that could potentially encompass not only Ethan and Danny, but also Dorothy, Walky by extension, and finish off Amber.
Not to mention, you’re just retreading old ground from Shortpacked.
I’ve just been wondering if Mike could be another Ryan -reminder that sometimes the rapist/abuser’s someone you call friend and trust (kinda) and know.
You know, you don’t need to give Amber a tragic backstory. All you need to do is say that Mike made it seem like a good idea at the time and now Amazigirl is just in too deep to stop.
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DAMN IT MIKE STOP BEING MIKE
Mikethan doesn’t have the same ring to it
Sadistic? more like MAD-istic…?
Magnificently Mikeistic.
Ethike is… almost better, right?
what about Michael…
…Ethical
PFFFF
Ethan Siegal & Mike Warner — Siener? Wargal? Wargal!
Sienal? Warger?!?
Wiener. Obviously.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a wiener! 😀
Yes. Yes we do.
Well technically Mike is planning to give Ethan a wiener.
Wargal sounds like a cheesy comic book character riding a black, red, & chrome motorcycle with an equine figurehead around, occasionally with her posse Famine, Pestilence, and Death along for the ride.
I would read the hell outta that. Tank Girl meets Darksiders.
And it would have an epic theme song like this: “Night Begins To Shine
Night Begins th Slipshine?
Professor Genki?
He’s whatever you don’t want him to be, baby.
Thank you for making that reference so I don’t have to!
Portmanteau ship names are worse than Mike. Possibly even worse than Mary.
… nah.
Danethan. Wacky. Dinasaurus Becks. Jotty. Fanille. Widowtracer. PharMercy.
I have no idea why you hate things that are Good 😀
Dinasaurus Becks is my favourite.
Oh god, Mike/Mary – the hatefuck that ended the world
“Mikethan doesn’t have the same ring to it”
Mike+Ethan = Meek-than. Duh.
Aaaaaand now I’ve got a mental image of a submissive Ethan calling Mike “daddy”.
Dammit, Jen, this is on you. >_<
(Meanwhile, in this scenario, Mike looks like this: http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Tfw+an+anime+begins+_10b8b7eddcdf967310918cefebbb3400.png)
methan?
Nailed it.
I’d bet Mike isn’t even gay. He’s just so much of an asshole that he’ll swing that way to screw with the two of them.
I think he might be asexual and comfortable with his sexuality. Like, sex brings no enjoyment, probably, but he’s fine with doing it if necessary to further his goals.
Also, he’s a dick, possibly even psychopathic. idk, maybe it’s explained more elsewhere in the Walkyverse.
Mike married Amber and they pounded every night in the most epic of hatefucks, so I think he’s into sex.
He also banged Ethan, and in his own words he’s “whatever you don’t want him to be.”
So that’s needed to ensure that his shenanigans remain strictly nonsexual is to very ostentatiously act attracted to him?
…I suppose it might work for theatre kids.
Yeah, he probably just likes to fuck, asexual or not. But he also has to enjoy what he gains by fucking. Bc he also uses fucking to get where he wants. He just doesn’t seem to need an emotional bond to fuck someone.
But be honest, don’t you wanna see what Mike was like in Scouts? And what that skillset lends itself to for someone like him.
No keep being Mike this should be good.
Oh Mike, you so wacky
He’s the best, I’m so happy! Aaaaaaa
Yesss
I’m just here for the fish.
*plays John Lennon’s “Jealous Guy” on the hacked Muzak*
…isn’t that still sleeping with Amber’s ex-boyfriend?
That is what I was thinking. Screwing over two people with one penetration.
Three.
You think the sex would be that bad? Just because his only experience is with your mother, for a nickel?
Nothing personal there, I just assume Mike has dine everyone’s mother…
…for a nickel.
Well if he’s done everyone’s mother, your mother is hardly his only experience, now is it?
Has Mike been the one PAYING the nickels and thus gaining experience -actually buying lessons to increase his skills?
I feel like there’s a “Your mama” age joke in there…
“Your mother’s so old she’s older’n nickel!”
“You mean the coin she was paying YOUR mother with?”
“No, I mean she’s literally somehow older than the 28th element on the periodic table. Dude, she is ANCIENT!”
This has been this month’s episode of “proof Silamy’s jokes are terrible”. Thank you, you’ve been a great crowd.
Can’t be my mother, she is on a pounds and pence system.
Seems to be the cue for a Mike Pence joke, but any way I try it, it comes out offensive to the wrong people…
Mike has done all the mothers, and grown bored. Clearly, he’s moved on to fathers. And possibly, upped the price. Just for the challenge.
I am counting Ethan, Danny, and Amber.
And, as I said, you are confusing “screwing”, with “screwing over.”
Except with your mother…
…for a nickel
I get the feeling Mike would have no problem changing things up and screwing over someone’s mom for a nickel.
No.
At this point, he’s up for screwing your mother AND father at no extra charge.
A BOGOF deal, if you will.
Probably could add Joyce to the mix.
En brochette? Ive heard of well-hung, but THAT is just rediculous… 😉
exactly
Sadly i don’t think Mike knows about the amber angle so there’s that.. I think he at this point JUST wants Ethan or Danny to confront their sexuality…
A few strips ago he literally said he wanted to fuck her ex boyfriend.
i feel like while Dorothy aspires to be a politician someday Mike already is
Dorothy ought to hire him to run smear campaigns against anyone who might eventually run against her.
Mike: the original Asshole Genie! ^_^
There’s a couple ways thay can be taken!
Mike seducing Danny sounds like a more interesting character interaction to me.
I suspect Mike wouldn’t find any pleasure in it.
He likes a challenge.
Hey, Danny’s not easy. Billie failed to seduce him.
Of course he was dating at the time.right now he’s probably hesitant to jump back in the dating game.
Not even. He was interested in Amazi-Girl but hadn’t approached her yet.
Things might have changed with how things went down with Amber, but Danny is a dude who gives himself maybe five minutes before he throws himself back in. He pretty much totally defines himself by being in a relationship.
Which is one of the things that bothers me about Danny. The attitude that you have to be in a relationship with someone is very unhealthy if you ask me.
Yep. It’s something his parents beat into his skull.
Like, it’s fine to be super persistent about romance, Danny’s 18, but it goes beyond finding joy through a relationship; for Danny, it’s how he receives his validation.
Hey, cut him some slack. He’s 18 and in college. Looking for a new relationship right after a breakup is pretty much the thing to do – at least being open to one. That is, if you’re even bothering with relationships in the first place. You’re meeting a ton of potential partners all at once.
I’m not even sure it’s all that true for Danny. He kind of stumbled into the Amazi Girl thing, though he did go out looking for her. He didn’t really do anything else to nail down relationship immediately. Nor is he this time.
Partly it’s the time compression. If he took a month off between, we’d never get anywhere.
Yeah, Danny tried diving right back into the game with Amber and Amazi-Girl at his first opportunity after Dorothy dumped him, but I think he’s approaching things a little differently with Ethan this time, and ultimately that’s going to contribute to their relationship being healthier.
As for DoA’s time kompression, well, yeah, when Danny and Ethan hook up it’ll be at most a week or two in comic time, but I still don’t think that the comic’s timeline is meant to be literal. If Walky and Dorothy broke up it wouldn’t have been a month long fling, it’d be the end of a relationship we’ve been following for four years now.
You can’t really say Danny HAD to throw himself back in. He met someone attractive, so he pursued her. He never even went looking for someone new. Same thing happened with Ethan. Both are good people who he was/is genuinely attracted to, so it’s not like it was just so that he’d be dating someone.
Now, once he’s IN a relationship, he puts holding onto that relationship ahead of anything else, including himself and the person he’s dating. With Dorothy, he picked IU entirely because that’s where she was going. That worked out ok since its a liberal arts school and he can probably study whatever it was he would have studied anyway, but I get the feeling he still would have followed her (or tried) if she’d gone to like, art school, or something that else incompatible with his own plans. If Dorothy hadn’t dumped him, he probably would have continued following her around, ignoring what he wanted to the point of not even taking time to figure out what that was, and growing steadily more bitter about how HE makes all the sacrifices until it eventually blew up.
Then with Amber, continued that behavior, only this time, he enabled her violent, unhealthy vigilantism and put up escalating abusive outbursts because he wasn’t willing to object and risk rocking the boat even a little. Sal helped him grow a bit of a backbone, but if Amber hadn’t dumped Danny, but merely refused to listen to him, I’m not sure he would have had it in him to actually dump her over it.
TL;DR: Danny is more clingy than grabby, relationship-wise
Danny didn’t want to dump Amber because he wants to help her through her shit, and her “escalating abusive outburst” was almost swearing at him that one time before she started crying.
Anyway, a huge part of Danny is that he validates himself through his relationships, this is all but spelled out through his relationship with Dorothy and literally spelled out yesterday with Mike. You’re dead on with what he was planning to do with Dorothy, buuut given that he was also planning on her giving up her own dreams, and then later grumbled that he would have gone to a different college if he knew he was getting dumped, well, I think he still has some self awareness left in him.
And that’s why openly acknowledging his attraction to Ethan, allowing himself to feel it, and being okay with them not dating for now is a big deal. He’s making some progress in moving away from the worst of his views on romantic loyalty.
I’m sure Mike knows what he’s doing, and I would never question his troll-game, but did he really think this one through?
Danny is attracted to Ethan, sure, but they have currently mutually ruled out a relationship together, and Danny is actively searching for someone else for Ethan to hook up with.
So why would EthanXMike upset him?
because people are not rational and do not work like that.
Trying to find your crush someone so they become offlimits rarely works as well as you’ll think it does. Even if Danny found a completely new character for Ethan to date, he’d likely feel jealous when they got along.
Ah, but does Mike know they’ve come to that agreement?
Well, Danny did state his desire and plan to get Ethan a romantic partner directly in front of Mike:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/holedup/
Danny gets jealous – Mike gets to see things burn
Danny goes meh – Mike got to bang Ethan
Mike wins either way
Interesting…
It prolly wouldn’t.
But getting sex from a long-time friend only for it to have been a complicated way of getting around a promise not to fuck with a friend of his rather than out of genuine attraction is probably a great way to exacerbate Ethan’s considerable neuroses about being gay.
Oh, Ethan, I can’t wait for you to break away fully from this toxic “friend” of yours.
…
Dude, Danny is super into Ethan. He doesn’t actually want Ethan to find a boyfriend. He thinks he’ll feel less attracted to Ethan if Ethan if Ethan is off the market, is all.
Spencer made a great point that after this clearing the air conversation they had that Danny and Ethan have moved beyond that point and Danny is now less “you are too desirable” and more, “you are hot, I imagine you would be a good partner, but I can’t do that to Amber, but I’m glad we are friends and enjoy that friendship earnestly”:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/traumatizing/
So, yeah, Danny’s reaction to Ethan getting some would probably be much more “yay, good for you” than “oh god, I’m so jellie”
I don’t see anyone in this universe/age group actually being that mature. Especially not Danny. I can see Ethan moving on easily enough, but Danny idealizes romantic relationships a lot still, to the point of unhealthy. He would probably be somewhat happy, but I really see him exhibiting the same unhealthy, co-dependent behaviors as more likely, with him being upset at that Ethan has moved on.
Ethan and Danny practically have cartoon hearts swirling around their heads every time they interact. Just because he knows it would be a bad idea for the two of them to hook up that doesn’t magically remove his crush. Intellectually he knows one thing but his feelings are a whole other story. His reaction’ll probably be, “Fuck I like you way more than I was ready to admit I did and this hurts me even though I know I have no right to be hurt.” People are sometimes more complicated than what they just say out loud.
It’s not a matter of the crush being gone, it’s that Danny’s starting to become okay with having that crush, and that it’s not going to ruin his life. He’s allowing himself to be attracted to Ethan without trying to circumvent it or block him out of his life.
Right now Amber is more important to Danny and Ethan than their feelings for each other. Will that change in the future? Totes. But for now, they’re just friends who think they’re hella hot.
I think you’re hugely oversimplifying this situation.
yeah its almost like were two different people with two different perspectives interpreting a work of fiction
In all seriousness, I really just think of Ethan and Danny’s feelings towards each other as “you’re nice and hot. I totally would, but we can’t, so oh well.” The important part to me is seeing Danny be attracted to a man and not beat himself up over it.
Did I say we weren’t?
I think there’s a difference though between Danny beating himself up over an attraction to men which would be a cliche and out of character since Danny seems overall fine with his sexuality and Danny being bummed out that the guy he liked hooked up with someone else which is more in line with typical college drama. If you’re worried about him falling into some kind of tragic stereotype here I don’t see that being the case. But whatever agree to disagree at this point.
I mean, Danny beating himself up over his attraction to men was a huge part of his arc since we found out he was bi. The whole reason he confessed his attraction to Ethan is because he didn’t want to be ashamed of his feelings anymore. He’s fine with his sexuality now because he made the effort to accept it.
Like I said, there’s a crush and there’s chemistry, but I really don’t think Danny as he is right now would be too broken up over his new crush finding a boyfriend. It’s really not about needing to make Ethan unavailable, that was earlier. Now he’s doing it because he likes Ethan and Ethan is a guy he can “never ever ever” date.
I guess I just take him at his word here:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/holedup/
Like, yes, he’s attracted and they have a really healthy dynamic that would make a super cute couple if they did start dating, but he’s also made his peace with it not being feasible because of their mutual empathy and feelings of care for Amber/AG and Danny seems to have made real peace with the idea of Ethan dating other guys and not having ownership of that and no longer seems to be motivated by the desire to partner Ethan up with anyone just to keep from being tempted.
Like, yeah, he’s mono and moderately prone to jealousy, but he’s had a really healthy turn of late regarding his feelings for Ethan and talked it out and I think he really does believe that he’s in a healthy place with regards to Ethan dating people and having his own relationships not with Danny and just enjoying the friendship and the lingering mutual attraction.
Yeah, Danny;s made huge strides not just in accepting his sexuality, but in trying to weed out some of his more harmful views on stringent monogamy. Before now he’d panic and try to block Ethan out and smother his own feelings, and now he’s allowing himself to be attracted to Ethan without beating himself up over them “never” happening, or needing to find Ethan a boyfriend because if he didn’t then he’d ruin things with Amber.
My little bisexual cinnamon roll is growing up.
Yeah, it’s really heartening!
@Spencer I’m not saying Danny’s going to be a basket case over this. I’m saying jealousy, even irrational jealousy that he will fully admit is irrational, is a very likely possibility. You can say something is a very, very, very bad idea and know that with absolute certainty and know you don’t have a leg to stand on feeling shitty about it and apart of you is still going to feel whatever you feel about it because emotions are complicated and people are hormonal, irrational, messes most of the time.
Because he can tell himself he’s okay with the idea of Ethan hooking up with someone in theory but find out he’s not when it actually happens?
Feelings don’t work that way.
Because thats a paper thin pretense ( of Danny’s) , and Danny X Ethan are always mere moments from ripping off each others clothes.
Plus its a double on Amber. Amber will find out. And Amber will Find out Danny was Jealous of Mike x Ethan . Which will be just as awkward for Amber as finding out Danny went right to Ethans arms, only worse.
PLus Amber will be jealous of Mike hooking up with Ethan too.
( Mike hasnt thought through all of the last part) .
I think he has. Mike never makes a move that affects only one target.
It already affects Danny AND Ethan.
And I’m pretty sure he has done that to Walky… http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/03-the-first-step-towards-recovery/target/
I don’t think Amber would care about Ethan and Mike. Unless she suddenly saw Mike for that asshole he is, she’d probably be happy for them, as long as Ethan still spent time with her.
Danny and Ethan dating would be problematic because Amber’s gotten especially unstable lately, and Danny’s still on her shit list, so she’d probably see it as Ethan turning against her as well. There’s really no jealousy involved, only paranoia. Maybe some vengeance.
Danny and Mike might not phase her as Danny has already betrayed her in a more important way by letting Sal warp his view.
Now, if Danny a Sal hooked up, she might flip out over that.
I think it’d bug him more that it’s Mike more than Ethan, because Mike is an asshole. There’s definitely a lot of chemistry, but Danny can probably go on with his life if the cute guy he’s known for two weeks and has already decided he’s never going to date finds a boyfriend, like he said he wanted to do for him.
Like I know everyone wants to believe they’re super madly in love, but Ethan is just a hot guy that Danny would date if circumstances permitted it, the same way he would have gone out with Amber if he wasn’t crushing on that super awesome totally not-Amber superhero on campus.
You’re putting a lot of faith in an 18 year old boy’s ability to compartmentalize his feelings. Just because he’s “decided” he can’t pursue Ethan for completely rational reasons that doesn’t mean when confronted face to face with his crush hooking up with someone he’s going to feel nothing about it. He doesn’t have to be “madly” in love. It’s really as simple as, “I like this guy. It sucks to see him hooking up with someone who isn’t me.” Just like Dorothy’s probably going to feel like shit when she and Walky split even though she “decided” it was a casual thing with a built in expiration date. Feelings are complicated. People are complicated. Ethan’s not just eye candy for Danny. This whole scheme wouldn’t appeal to Mike if he was.
I’m basing that on how Danny’s previously acted. He was attracted to Amber, but then there was a reason why he didn’t want to pursue her, so he didn’t, put her in the “friend” box, and refused to look at her in any non-platonic fashion until he was forced to acknowledge that he liked her and freaked out.
With Ethan the circumstances are different due to how he played into Danny trying to figure out his sexuality, but right now Ethan is someone Danny thinks is attractive, knows Ethan thinks he’s attractive, and that neither of them wants to date each other at the moment because they think they’d hurt Amber.
Like, yeah, I think this is going to play a major part in Danny recognizing that his feelings for Ethan go a bit farther than he thought, but for now I really think it’s just that Ethan is his hot friend and Danny has a crush on him, only this time Danny’s allowing himself to be okay with that crush.
I mean, even if he were bummed out about Ethan hooking up with someone else, would he want to pursue it anyway if the both of them have already put Amber’s feelings on a pedestal? Like, if Amber had dated someone else after Danny turned her down, would he get mad?
I agree with you and Silamy.
Though an interesting wrinkle is that he has expressed jealousy before with regards to a former romantic partner moving on and dating again:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/mowgli/
Though, that said, that jealousy attack was remarkably short-lived and their next interaction betrayed none of that jealousy. I don’t know if he’d have that same spark of jealousy with a non-former-romantic-partner. Certainly he didn’t with Amber, so I’d argue him having a jealous reaction is possible but might not be the most likely scenario.
Even with crush and chemistry contributing to the mix.
True nuff, though Danny did also believe that Dorothy dumped him for school and that dating Walky was her “betraying” that trust he had in her to never ever ever look at anyone in a non-platonic fashion until after she was out of his sight, something he didn’t hold himself to for any significant degree and even rightfully chewing Dorothy out when she and Joe scared off Amber.
Danny was kind of a dingus earlier on.
But, yeah, I think he’d be disappointed if Ethan were to find another man, but I also think he’d get over it in due time.
Going back and re-reading early strips, it’s kinda stunning how much Danny has grown and evolved in such little time.
Like early Danny had so many awful Danny moments where he was engaging in toxic behavior for dumb reasons. It’s genuinely impressive how much spending less time with Joe and taking the time to really introspect has helped better him as a person.
So then the primary reason why Danny’s gotten better is he’s not been around Joe? I wonder if Joe’s Joeness is bringing Joe down, and how will Joe thusly get away from Joe?
I’m not sure if it’s just Joe, though. Being away from home is certainly helping, just ’cause being removed from a toxic and painful environment (especially in a nontraumatic way) is helpful, but I think being out of his relationship with Dorothy might be doing him a lot of good. He always came last to her -and knew it -he said as much when she came to ask for shoes. And putting school before romance is fine and sensible, but if it’s not what everyone in the relationship wants (and if the person who doesn’t want it doesn’t believe they’re allowed to want things and lives with people who constantly reinforce that message), it’s not going to do them much good. Add in that Danny was constantly being told by both his family and society that his value was based on the continuation of that relationship (and also hearing from his family that he wasn’t good enough for her), and the most logical outcome (which I think we saw) would be him constantly getting more insecure and making the emotional scale (the balancing of how much effort and emotion each person’s putting in) more and more unbalanced by getting clingier and more desperate in the hopes of fixing things, which only exacerbated the existing problems. Joe’s not the best thing in Danny’s life by any means, but I don’t think that was the worst of his problems.
He expressed jealousy, yes, when he had it sprung on him because the partner in question was asking him a favor on behalf of the guy who “replaced him” with the understanding that he’d give in -and then asked him ANOTHER favor shortly thereafter. He and Dorothy had been together for two years, at least before she ended things, and by the end of that conversation, he’s not only resigned himself to her new relationship, he’s given Walky his own CLOTHING which Dorothy came to ask him for -and then, as you said, by the next time we see them together, he’s seemingly moved on. He’s either an INCREDIBLY well-adjusted and laid-back person, or he is HORRIFYINGLY insecure about the mere idea of having emotions.
Also, I’d forgotten Mike was in there -was he intentionally provoking his ROOMMATE into freaking out, and sparking a fight with his girlfriend and her ex? (she asked, rhetorically) Presumably, Mike’s intelligent enough to understand the basic principle of “don’t shit where you eat”, which leads me to the conclusion that he actually THRIVES on watching the people around him miserable -but only if he had some hand in it. (Last bit is speculation, but I’m pretty sure proof can be found in the archives or will be given to us fairly soon.)
Yup, on that last bit with Mike.
Worse yet, he intentionally tried to spark jealousy in both Danny and Walky by implying worse things than what happened. This in a world where it’s not uncommon for jealous male exes and partners to commit violence on partners they feel have “wronged them”.
His actions could very well have gotten Dorothy hurt if Danny and Walky weren’t reasonably decent dudes.
And adding a quick addendum to clarify that I’m not saying most men are abusive towards partners or exes or that no women are, just that it’s enough of an occurrence in real life to make intentionally trying to play on jealousy and trigger an angry jealous outbreak a really dangerous game.
There was also the potential for male-on-male violence and harassment as posturing or revenge. Walky’s short, slight, geeky, not particularly fit, and has very firm ideas on proper “male” behavior -not only was violence a very real possibility, but Walky could’ve gotten badly hurt (or this could’ve sparked a source of social tension in the hall) -I don’t know if Mike knew that all but that last descriptor apply to Danny as well -if Danny weren’t as passive as he is… Mike wanted to watch someone get hurt, and he either didn’t care who, or he wanted it to be the person whose hurt he’d get to savor.
This is not to suggest that most men are violent towards one another -that would be ridiculous. This is, however, a world where violence does occur between people, male and female, who are competing (or think they are) for the attention of the same person.
Oh, Dorothy was just as bad then, it’s by far the worst thing she’s done in the whole comic. Everyone in that little chapter was a mess.
As for your part about how Danny processes relationships, I think of it as him mourning it, quickly getting attached to someone else, and then mostly moving on.
Except, at least from how I’ve read him, Danny doesn’t think he’s allowed to feel things that don’t benefit other people -or at the very least shouldn’t have feelings that could inconvenience or hurt others. He thinks it’s okay and normal for other people to verbally abuse him, having normalized that growing up. So while I agree he’d have that “I like Ethan; seeing with someone else sucks” bit, I feel there’d be an immediate rationalization of “My god, I’m such a scumbag, first I wasn’t good enough for Dorothy, and then I kept crushing on people while I was with Amber, even though one of them actually WAS Amber, and then I was crushing on her best friend and exboyfriend and then I became friends with him and now I’m begrudging him his happiness and why do I want to hurt everyone I come into contact with, I’m a failure of a human being” followed by an immediate locking-away of all feelings he found relevant to the situation, an attempt to be happy for Ethan (or at least look like it) and possibly a really, REALLY stupid action or several. Good reaction? No. Healthy reaction? No. Understandable reaction? Kinda.
Ah now that sounds more like the Danny I know (and the Danny who was blushing talking to Ethan a couple strips back) than the Danny who really has gotten over his interest in Ethan and will be perfectly happy seeing him date someone else.
Mike’s correct here. Him seducing Ethan would turn Danny into a whimpering jealous mess, at least internally.
Danny’s not over his interest in Ethan, he’s just letting himself be interested and not castigate himself for it anymore.
Right. Which means it’s not going to be easy if he does find someone else for Ethan.
Though it might still make it easier to not hook-up with Ethan and thus hurt Amber.
Mike will demonstrate this if he does seduce Ethan – hurting Danny and not making it easier to not hurt Amber.
I mean, I think he will be fine with it, he doesn’t want to date Ethan right now anyway. Like, if Amber stopped being a factor and then Danny lost his opportunity to make a move I could see it, but I don’t really think Danny would get that worked up over it because then he’d just laser focus on someone else. Unlike the pettiness he’s displayed towards Dorothy he never actually dated Ethan. Like, Danny’s more invested in being in a relationship than being in a relationship with anyone in particular, I think. He’s dealing with Amber dumping him pretty well, unlike how he was basically in an angst coma when Dorothy dumped him.
I guess the way I’ve been seeing it is that the whole point of Danny confessing his attraction to Ethan was because he wasn’t going to let himself be ruled by those feelings anymore, and I feel like him still just being lovestruck over Ethan and being hurt at never being with him just kind of clashes with that, I guess? Like, all of that pride he took in asserting his identity really only mattered for Ethan revealing he thinks Danny’s hot, and he’s still allowing his feelings for Ethan to weigh on him, when for now I really don’t think those feelings have ever gone past “you’re nice and hot.”
I think he still does want to date Ethan right now, he’s just (they’ve just) decided it wouldn’t be right. I think the staring at each other blushing a couple of strips back, where Mike picked up on it, was an indication of that.
His confessing to Ethan was partly the culmination of his “I’m really bi” arc and partly him taking the initiative and partly not being ruled by those feelings. All important steps for Danny. But not being ruled by them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
He’s trying to do the right thing, because he’s Danny. It’s still going to hurt, probably more than he realizes.
And of course, Mike’s going to take that knife he was handed, stick it in and twist. Because Mike’s an asshole. But Mike’s still smart in his way. He’s right about it hurting.
At least that’s how I see it.
I didn’t mean “he doesn’t want to date” as him being uninterested, that’s clear as day, I meant it more like he thinks that them being a dick to Amber matters more than his feelings for Ethan, so he’s just rolling with things for now.
For me, I guess it’s like, the important part is that Danny’s being honest with himself. He’s honest about his sexuality. He’s honest about his feelings for Ethan, and he’s processing them as healthily as possible. He’s letting himself be cute and flirty and blushy with him because “it’s never happening” so of course it’s okay for him to relax because Ethan’s just his friend with a glorious manchest, the opposite of how Amber was just his platonic friend he totally turned down and felt nothing romantic for until he got smacked in the face with the fact that he meant everything he said about her in front of his parents.
I dunno, I feel like Danny being “wounded” at the idea of Mike dating Ethan undermines his growth. Let alone because he and Ethan really aren’t that close yet, I just feel like it makes their previous interactions pointless for anything beyond setting Danny and Ethan up together.
Your points may be valid, but seriously, starting your comments by dismissing the other person’s point of view kind of ruins the conversational mood.
See, that just means Mike will have Danny help him get with Ethan, so Danny “gets” to witness the seduction.
As there are families with two loving fathers, Mike is forced to become bisexual. Even non-traditional mothers need to be banged too.
Wait, are you saying one of the fathers is a…non-traditional mother?
That’s what I read, but I’m hoping no?
I’m trying to figure out a way to make your comment sound trans-friendly in my head and for some reason I’m not succeeding.
My comment has nothing to do with trans anything. Mike’s shtick since Shortpacked is banging moms. All moms. Even dads if there is no mom available. Making him bi means he can cover all non-traditional families. That’s all I mean.
It comes off better when you say “even dads if there is no mom available.” Just because at first, it seemed like you were suggesting that one of the fathers would sort of be in the role of the mother/would be a “non-traditional mother.” This was a bit uncomfortable because of how people sometimes respond to families with two fathers or two mothers, assuming they must somehow have clear roles that respond to that of heterosexual parents. (Also implying, of course, that heterosexual parents have distinct roles.)
Also, what would Mike do if there was a family with two moms who were both lesbians?
Both of them, assuming Mike still has the same mom-banging power in this world. This is pretty canon in shortpacked. Moms get banged. There is no exception.
Wasn’t talking about your comment, was talking about the one above mine.
Then could you explain how you read that one as not being trans friendly?
My headcannon is now that Mike was an Eagle Scout.
He was until their camp was destroyed and still haven’t found out who did it.
Can we switch headcanons? I briefly imagined him as a Sailor Scout, and may never feel clean again.
He’s Sailor Hades.
Does by any chance he gets a Sailor Cerberus?
Well, he is always prepared.
He’s not even doing the Scout salute correctly.
Mike knows, he’s using a fake Scout salute as a loophole. He can throw the sign up with no good intentions whatsoever and get away with it.
…Could Mike actually fall in love with Ethan in this universe?
that would be a twist
Could Mike actually fall in love?
that would be a twist
He did with Amber in Shortpacked!.
No, Mike is actually a large collection of buttholes that just happens to be shaped like a person, and as such is incapable of such feelings.
Mike will seduce him….by smiling for once.
It will be as hollow as the smile in your gravatar, too.
Truly, Mike is teh sex with such a smile.
Nah no matter how he seduces, I doubt he’ll succeed.
Hahahaha NO Mike smiling is
wow willis, u just got played by Mike, how does that make you feel?
Can we haz man-luv Slipshine now?
There was Bryan and Sayid in Tales of Sinterest!
We need more Sayid, yo.
I want
So Mike considers Miking someone to be a specific act. Good to know.
Normally that involves plugging a Mike into a hole and using it to amplify the sound of many objects, some of which are rod shaped with a bulbous end.
So I guess that makes Ethan the bottom of the duet.
Pft, if Ethan was paying attention he’d have noticed that mike didn’t actually Boy Scout salute. I assume using 4 fingers is a bit like crossing your fingers behind your back. Amateur move; Ethan’s known mike for years in this universe.
After much deliberation, I have decided that the winner of the contest is…Dun Dun DUN!!!!!
Umbrella Paint!
With
Questing of Age (I changed it a bit, but you win anyway!)
Sweet.
what battle do you want?
[psst, Umbrella Paint, you should do Sierra v. Roz]
Oh, saw this late. I just wanna see my 2 favorite characters duke it out, so… Dina VS Ethan
that I can do
Darn it Mike stop spoiling my “asshole for the greater good” impression of you
Sorry but Mike is no Commander Farsight.
*applauds*
Holy shit someone actually got that.
Yeah, it does seem like he’s heading toward the heel side in this universe. Well, for those of us still hoping he would at least be a tweener.
Are we sure he’s an asshole? Thus far, sorta seems more like he might just be, you know. Into dudes.
Spitesexual, or perhaps Schrödinger’s pansexual.
Did we read the same strip? Yeah, it still says “I was waffling on whether to seduce you or Danny to turn the other into a jealous, whimpering mess.”
He might be into dudes, but he’s definitely an asshole. His stated motivation here is “to turn the other into a jealous, whimpering mess”, not “because you’re hot” or “because I’ve got a crush” or anything else normal.
Yeah, I admit he talks a good game, but thus far the majority of his dick moves have been, uh… well… dick moves.
Mike: Honestly I was kinda hoping for that to be my only option anyway.
50-60%?
Never let it be said that Ethan wasn’t optimistic.
This is well into the territory of ‘naive’.
you never know what isn’t shown in the comic until it is. like joyce texting whats his face that danny rooms with.
That’s probably why people still have hope for Mike.
This’ll be an interesting storyline.
…excellent…
“Mike Things” is now the official euphamism for sexytimes
There are chances some people may not enjoy this type of sexytimes.
Possibly Mike, depending on what he has to do.
Ha ha! Yay! Hooray!
Huh… In a way, he could think he’s being helpful. Neither of them want to go there with their relationship because of Amber. Just platonic buddies.
If he’s able to drive someone to insane jealousy, well maybe their minds will change.
Of course, this is a terrible idea that only has horrible possibilities. But one never knows his motivation.
I always just assume his motivation is “to be an asshole.”
I always thought it was more to show his target what an idiot they were being, over whatever it was they were being idiots about.
Saying “I told you so” in the cruelest way you can possibly manage is still being an asshole.
my interpretation of mike is chaos incarnate. you can put no rules or motives to him because his actions are entirely random
Mike’s not really chaotic. His alignment seems to be more Neutral Asshole, which I imagine to be slightly better than Neutral Evil or Lawful Evil.
Well at least Ethan caught on to his, um, Mike things.
*smooch smooch smooch*
I dunno, alt text. At this rate, he’s working hard to alienate his last two friends and push even further out of his remaining connections to the main characters.
True, but he’s rooming with Walky, so he’s still got that hold.
(Side note, I was wondering a couple days ago why Ethan and Mike weren’t rooming together, but then I thought about it and…it makes sense that they’re not.)
Ethan’s actually commented about that exact thing in comic way back when he met Joyce for the first time:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/backpack/
“Ethan knew Mike in high school! Why isn’t he rooming with him?”
“Because Ethan knew Mike in high school.”
Makes sense to me. Short-term attention grab that ends in long term screwover. Classic Mike.
Of course everyone is assuming that Mike has a clue about how to seduce another man. Like some other characters Mike may overestimate his capabilities.
Its an inherent aspect of his character. He is as capable as he is and malevolent. The only wrench that could ruin his plans is if he realizes he actually does have feelings for Ethan.
he didnt have any trouble in shortpacked
Mike’s a plot device he’s capable of whatever Willis needs him to be capable of for him to pull off whatever gross dickbaggery he wants to.
Saw that coming.
So I’m guessing Mike will seduce Ethan in a way that ensures Danny finds out about it. Like catching them kissing in a hall or Mike walking shirtless out of Ethan’s dorm. Danny is hurt by this even knowing he shouldn’t be. Ethan is sorry even though he knows he shouldn’t be. Mike forces them to deal with the fact that they have deeper feelings for each other than they wanted to admit beyond just mutual attraction. Amber finds out somehow.
I think I agree with you. Mike manages to do some good out of all of his ‘assholery’ as its been called. He just has a rather underhanded way to do it.
He does seem to like to have some way of justifying his monstrous behavior in the end so I’m guessing the ripple effects of all this will probably be Danny and Ethan at least both aware of how they feel and Amber in therapy finally…probably not talking to any of them for a while.
I’ve seen that argued, but I don’t believe we’ve seen a single example of someone being in a better place because of Mike’s meddling rather than in spite of it. Not at least in this comic (other comic maybe, but this comic he’s been pretty consistently a force for awful).
I’m inclined to agree with you. For me, the nature of his malevolence here in DoA -the fact that whether it’s calculated, detailed planning or immediate action he automatically acts in a manner that preys on the weaknesses of others -and that he is innately skilled at recognizing and actively studies and categorizes such vulnerabilities (and focuses perhaps exclusively on emotional ones, rather than physical)…. I… honestly, having had bad run-ins with both types of people, I’d prefer dealing with the Ryans of the world -especially given that Mike seems to either prey on the emotionally vulnerable or somehow be ingratiating and pleasant enough when he chooses to that people are willing to continue “friendships” with him (remember, he initially came off as “uninterested, nonthreatening male” to JOYCE. Beginning of comic Joyce, who saw him as a respectable and reasonable chaperone despite barely knowing him). I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as “jerk with a heart of gold” back then, when he was a dick, but not as chaotically destructive. When he compared Amber to Blaine, I felt sketchy about still doing it but he was entertaining and sort of well-intentioned in the other ‘verse, and it might’ve been the kind of thing she’d once requested he say just in case he saw it happening, but… and now we’ve got this storyline.
Gonna be really interesting how he’s expanded as a character -if he’s part of a Willis spectrum (I mean that as a good thing -there’s multiple types of representation for all kinds of people in this strip, which makes it way more engaging) and exists purely as a new kind of asshole, or if he’s broadened out and shown to have good intentions BUT_____.
Yeah, as much as I have a lot of antipathy for how the character is now*, I would love to see him grow and change.
Either by realizing how he’s alienating his friends and how toxic his actions are and actually acknowledging the damage he’s already done or just seeing him fully encapsulate the villain he’s kinda already being and letting the other characters gain strength by defeating or separating themselves from him.
*Antipathy not at all helped by the fact that I’ve known a fair few Mikes and have had to pick up the pieces Mikes have created in others. One of my exes college boyfriends was the sort of “for the lulz” “amateur sociopath” “weaknesses and vulnerabilities are to be exploited” asshole that Mike embodies and I had to spend years undoing all the damage he did with all his emotionally abusive mind games and non-consensual d/s-ing.
But then he wouldn’t be “Funny” Asshole Guy which is basically his entire “character” at this point. Like being an utter bag of dicks is kind of all DoA Mike HAS.
I’m thinking, despite the commentariat freaking out about it at the time, that this was a positive good. It diverted Carol’s attention away from the issue at hand (interrogating Joyce about Becky’s whereabouts), and the fallout from it landed mostly on Walky, who doesn’t really need to give a shit about it.
Except it put Joyce in a more vulnerable position with her mom and strengthened her mom’s conviction that the university is a sinful harmful place for Joyce’s soul and we’ve seen the fallout of that this last weekend.
Again, it’s a case where all the positives were in spite of his actions and thanks to Walky’s quick thinking in intervening to protect Joyce and where the negatives were far longer lasting than Mike had any intention to cause.
I keep thinking about this, and I keep coming back tot he same conclusion: Not really, re: Joyce’s soul. She was going to be have this doubted, because she did two things far more important than what Mike did – she talked back (ever), and she defended the horrible gay sinner who got her father in prison. Then she was surly and improper at home. That is not even a blip on her radar, I suspect. And the simple fact was, SOMEONE had to do SOMETHING. That is a shitty way to compel a reaction from someone more level-headed, but they weren’t reacting without it. And they’d already academically heard “WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!” so saying it again isn’t helpful. So that’s two things I think he might have actually have had a positive outcome in mind (And indeed, Walky seemed to convincingly lie to get Joyce’s mom off her back after this.)
I dunno, maybe the threat would be enough, but…
Also, looking back at the comments for that strip, I’m amused that no one challenged my assertion that Joyce was dating an atheist.
I agree with Cerberus here -I can maybe, MAYBE stretch to seeing that one as a “positive bad” (wrong thing that was kind of an immediate fix done for (I think wrong, but can conceivably be read as right, although it might be that he’s singled out Joyce as a weak/vulnerable/interesting to break person and has started fixating on acquiring her as a new “friend”/target, so let’s just not use any adjective here) reasons) where, as Cerberus said -the good came about despite, not because of, Mike -can you imagine what Carol would’ve said/done to Joyce if she’d answered? And who’s to say Joyce wouldn’t’ve broken down and given away everything then -I’m not calling Joyce weak, by any means, but she went through a LOT of her trials by fire and character growth and gained most of her ability to question her parents AFTER that strip happened. That one “joke” could’ve cost Becky dearly, and might’ve cost Joyce her future education, if it hadn’t been for Walky. Mike just gambled two futures for his own brief moment of amusement, as I read it -although it remains to be seen how consciously he did that.
Honestly, the way people insist that Mike is good deep down reminds me of all the Darth Vader boyfriend posts at Captain Awkward:
Darth: *blows up planet*
Luke: “There’s good in him, I know it!”
Why does Ethan even partially think Mike is his friend? How do they even know each other?
High school.
I feel there are direct parallels between Ethan’s assumptions that Mike is his friend and Danny’s attempts to keep his friendship alive with Joe despite how hard Joe’s been trying to push him away in college.
Both are the attempt to keep a high school friendship alive in college because it’s been going for awhile, but in college, things have changed enough to see those friendships become more and more unsustainable.
And I think it’s what makes Danny and Ethan’s friendship so healing for both of them. Danny has found someone who doesn’t make him feel that his emotions and feelings are an imposition and is drifting away from Joe as a result. And Ethan is finding someone who doesn’t find his vulnerabilities as an excuse to attack and is starting to realize Mike might not be as solidly his friend as he thought in response.
And both Mike and Joe risk losing that friendship completely if they don’t similarly adapt or else acknowledge that the friendship has reached the end of its course and accept that.
Honestly, I don’t think Mike was ever Ethan’s friend. I get the sense that if you spend enough time near Ethan and interact with him, regardless of how, he’ll consider you a friend. His judgement is not good.
That’s depressing but seems accurate.
And he’s got low enough self-esteem that he’ll put up with a lot of abuse of that “friendship” and still consider it solid because he’s in canon terrified of ending up alone:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/04-time-keeps-on-slippin/alone-2/
Ending up alone is awful. Ending up with Mike? Yeah, something gotta be wrong then.
Well, as Ethan said way back in the start: Mike doesn’t have friends. He has people he’s willing to stand next to.
Ethan may not be quite that naive about Mike.
Mike originally knows Ethan (and Amber, for that matter) from high school.
OMG I think I’m going to love this arc. Something about a guy seducing another guy just gets my attention, you know? I mean I know Mike has bad intentions but I’m still convinced that the universe will make good things come from this.
You ever see the movie Plan B? I would recommend it.
Is it bad I kinda want to see Mike and Mary team up, and start exchanging notes of evil or something.
They could call themselves the Malevolent Ms
Like the idea, hate the name
Malice and Malevolence and the team logo is two M’s across their chests? And then a third character joins them and they can add “meanness” and another M.
I want to see Mike and Mary interact, because I’m pretty sure it would be the exact opposite of a team-up. There’s nothing Mike likes more than revealing the depths of someone hypocrisy, and introducing Mary to him would be like throwing raw meat to a pack of velociraptors.
(Pack? Herd? School? I guess they come in flocks. They’re birds.)
I think the team-up is more likely.
Though that assumes that Mike can interact civilly with anyone. Mary either for that matter.
I kinda get the impression that Mike can interact in any way he chooses, and that he chooses whatever way entertains him the most. He can definitely play people -and Mary can’t read them. It’s just a question of whether he’d feel the long con was worth it enough to pretend to be Mary’s kind of Christian long enough for her to be civil to him.
….okay, I just saw that and couldn’t help reading it in John Oliver’s voice because of his “#notmychristian” line and dear lord -Mary, Mike, and Fifty Shades…. >.<
I feel like Mary, as a shitbag, comes from a place of entitled self-righteousness. Mike, on the other hand, knows he’s a shitbag and continues to be a shitbag because he enjoys it.
Like, don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Mike as a person in this verse at all, and self-awareness isn’t a virtue if it doesn’t spurn you to improve, but Mike’s self-awareness would repel Mary like a vampire at garlic convention.
Nah. Mike’s an asshole, but often he’s specifically an asshole to people he views as hypocritical or pretentious. I could see him PRETENDING to work with Mary in order to humiliate her, but she seems like exactly the kind of person he’d want to break.
“A group of dinosaurs is called a herd (of plant-eaters) or pack (of meat-eaters).”
Also, dinosaurs aren’t birds- the predecessor of birds were dinosaurs.
Your logical structure is reversed.
Flip side, flock only became associated with birds in the 19th century, and while it has become a dominant term, it has some pretty erratic exceptions (eg, a flamboyance of flamingos, a parliament of owls, a murder of crows, a gaggle of geese, etc). Its initial application was toward humans, followed by sheep, then other domestic animals. (You still hear flock of sheep, but these days, being herbivores, you’d more often hear them referred to as a herd.)
Wrapping that all up, my point is that while it’s messy and erratic and meanings have changed, you can apply some basic guidelines now:
Herd for land-based herbivores, Pack for land-based carnivores, and Flock for *flying* birds. [Even though in practice it applies to several non-flying birds and certain domestic animals.]
School is for fish, so it totally doesn’t apply here. 😛
Oooooh. Where’s the line from? Must… read… all… the… groups….
Actually, birds, taxonomically speaking, belong to the same group as dinosaurs. They are as closely related to a t-rex as many other dinosaurs were related to each other that day. By modern definition, birds are not just ‘descendants’ of dinosaurs. Birds, legit, no joke, paleontologists are in agreement, are dinosaurs.
Birds are dinosaurs, just like humans are mammals. Everything in a phylogenetic tree is still part of the same group that its basal forms were part of. So birds are dinosaurs, just like humans are hominids and apes and etc all the way back to mammals.
I totally agree that Mike and Mary seem polar opposites, though 😛
Most fundamentally, Mary has a goodly facade hiding wickedness, while Mike.. well, he quite enjoys his wicked exterior, but it does regularly hide underlying goodness.
But yeah, past that, as you say, Mike is pretty much the antithesis of hypocrisy.
It would be a team up until it isn’t. Mike enjoys a long con now and again.
Honestly, I think Ethan’s kind of overestimating with 50%. Too high for sure
It’s actually 83%, but that only condenses the remaining 17% into a more destructive force. :X
Mike makes for a fearsome friend.. =O
For some reason I’m really into Mike having actual human emotions really really far down so I’m just gonna assume he had a thing for Ethan until proven otherwise.
or he just wants to go into things because he doesn’t have emotions and he hopes delving into the emotional extremes with others will help him experience some? just a thought.
I definitely think he’s got emotions far down, but I don’t think it’s a hidden crush on Ethan. I think he cares about his…well, if not “friend,” then “person who tolerates him” enough to, in his twisted way, force him to move towards doing what he actually wants to do (date Danny).
I dunno, the whole Danny/Ethan/Amber thing strikes me as two queer people putting aside their relationship because a straight person is more important, so that could color my impression of Mike’s actions, but if memory of It’s Walky and Shortpacked serves he’s got a track record of doing spiteful things in order to make people confront the lies they tell themselves (or others).
I understand why people are bothered by Mike’s dickishness – after all, we’ve never seen the gold heart that he has in Shortpacked! – but I never have been. He’s so over-the-top that, to me, that he transcends the “realism” aspect of the comic and goes straight into the “comicky” aspects, like how Amazi-Girl bends physics sometimes. He’s not realistically a dick, like Mary.
Which, again, I can understand why others would disagree, feel free, but I’m just kind of amused with Mike as less a person and more this abstract force of….something.
I agree with you, it’s just that sometimes Mike ends up being too real.
It’s the difference between Amazi-Girl ziplining onto a moving truck, and Amazi-Girl hunting down Sal to kick the shit out of her and justifying it by invoking legal drinking age laws.
That’s true, and I don’t mean to imply either that Amazi-Girl doesn’t have those real moments, which have been becoming more and more frequent of late.
To me, Mike, especially in the way we’re seeing here (but also in the “you are your abuser” incident with Amber) is one of the more terrifying real bits of the comic. I didn’t grow up with most of the other kinds of assholes we’ve seen in DoA so far, so they feel more …secondhand real, I guess. Like it’s a thing I know happens and don’t want to happen but don’t have personal experience with. People who find and track and manipulate your weaknesses and fears while holding you in a position of dependence on them somehow, mostly in the name of emotional bonds that probably only exist on your end? That…. that has always been a major part of my little corner of reality. I don’t understand the mindset that leads someone to act like that (I understand more than I want to, but not completely), but I’ve been on the receiving end of it, with the result that that’s my monster under the bed, more so than almost anything else.
Yeah, Mike’s “so if you’re not picking jerks then which one does that make you” is my number one pick for why Mike is just a total piece of shit, and it’s really annoying that so many people treat him as some ultimate purveyor of wisdom because of it.
It was like if that part of my brain that screams at me for not hating myself enough grew a stupid two dimensional haircut.
Okay, I’m not saying he wasn’t an asshole for saying it, especially at that point but…he wasn’t wrong. He was entirely right, Amber deliberately chose a boyfriend that she could walk all over and manipulate, a relationship where she had all the power and then went on to abuse it. It was a dickish observation but not an inaccurate one.
See, you’re right. And Mike being right about that and pointing it out in the worst way possible isn’t necessarily enough on its own to label him a scumbag. Amber may well’ve said something to her friends when her parents split about “don’t let me do that to myself” -and even if she hadn’t, she did need to be careful -Danny IS a doormat (or was then, at least), and Mike is particularly adept at finding that. But that doesn’t make Mike a good guy for pointing it out. The problem is that what he said’s in no way out of character for Mike -he constantly exploits emotional vulnerabilities for no apparent reason. And IIRC, he didn’t try to help or stay with her afterwards -he basically said, “yeah, you know your worst nightmare? You’re that for someone else, and if you’re not now, you’re going to be -or you can let it happen to you” and left, and that…. you don’t do that to someone you hate, let alone a friend -and an emotionally unstable friend? That’s… that’s a destructive level of sociopathy right there, I feel.
It not being wrong has NEVER been a justification to say something.
You know I kind of want to get into this again, but I think at this point I’ve kinda realized having these conversations about Amber, I’m really just trying to defend my own right to fuck up without it meaning I’m “becoming an abuser” or something.
That makes it worse. He’s weaponizing her weaknesses, which not only makes it sting more than if he were just pulling stuff out of his ass, but also makes it harder for her to actually deal with her problems cuz now she has to deal with his bullshit on top of her fears.
Interestingly enough, in that effect, he’s eerily similar to Mary:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/moralcenter/
And yeah, I agree with Silamy. Current Mike is too similar and repeats too many tactics of real-life harassers, abusers, and awful people of the internet to really even be enjoyable as an asshole.
It’s just… yup, that’s a shitweasel edgelord alright.
For me, the critical difference between the two is that Mary seems to see other people as people -inferior people who need saving and can be fixed (except they can’t and wont be fixed and they’ll choose not to be and even if they are, a fixed thing isn’t as good as one that was never broken in the first place and that’s why her soul’s the best and always will be), but people. To her, other people’s feelings are (probably) real, even if they’re wrong and invalid. People have autonomy and they SHOULD listen to her because she’s best. Mike, however, comes across like he only sees other people and their emotions, actions, and reactions as toys. It’s not that they’re lesser, it’s that they’re straight-up irrelevant except in how he can manipulate and be amused by them. Mary derives pleasure from having power -the potential and ability to inflict pain -but only takes pleasure in using it when it will serve to remind others that her power exists -it’s mostly about how others perceive her. Mike derives pleasure from actually manipulating people and causing them pain -it’s entirely about that; their perceptions, of him and anything else, are meaningless save as tools he can use.
I think I will disagree on this.
I do not think Mary sees people as people. She most certainly do -not- see LBGQT people as full people. At all. At -best- she sees them as “projects”, where she can turn them into -real- people (i.e. her style of fundie) because she thinks that will give her some gold stars with her deity. If she died tomorrow and came to the pearly gates*, she would expect to come in on the basis of “Well, I tried, didn’t I?” and not give a single fuck in the entire world if everyone she “tried to reach” would spend eternity in a lake of fire. She would probably derive pleasure from knowing it.
I mean, her reaction to hearing that Ruth was possibly suicidal was completely devoid of any concern at all about that. The only thing that went through her mind was how her glorious plans of blackmail went down the drain. Her head was so far stuck up her own ass that even as she realised how Ruth was suicidal, she -still only thought of how she no longer would have something to hold over Ruth’s head-.
How exactly is that different from Mike? Because from where I stand, that is somewhat less than “critical” and more into “microscopic” territory.
*One of the most popular pieces of fiction to mash up with other pieces of fiction.
Mike is definitely a lot more comical here, than in the core universe- there it was all too easy to interpret unusual behaviors in characters as being part of their rough upbringing, tragedies, and genetic tampering.
There, Mike seemed completely withdrawn from reality and yet wanting to affect a positive difference, so his actions seemed over-the-top but reflecting something deeper.
Here in Dumbiverse, without any excuses to his character [that we know of], and with a more crass presentation (as per today’s comic), he seems more.. a willful troublemaker that simply delights in anarchy and has little he himself values.
He’s still a delight, but he definitely seems more of a humorous caricature than a relatable person.
Then again, core universe implied he tortured animals, and whatever his excuses for the development of his personality, that definitely took things to an extremely dark and disagreeable place.
Rather, Mike was someone you had to assume as being primarily bark without bite, and fill in the blanks for- you did that, and core universe Mike was fantastic.
Here in DoA, it’s a lot harder to do that for the character, thus far.
Still, it’ll be interesting seeing how the character grows, and as I noted, he’s always fun to have pop up, if only to see how he throws relationship dynamics into chaos and the fallout from such. (ie, Deus Ex Mike-ina)
“bark without bite”
To clarify, I mean that the things he claimed to do off-screen were just bluster rather than fact.
Looks like Ethan is about to get Miked!
Mike is like the little voice in my head that says the worst thing to do, except all the rest of the parts of my head don’t furnish that impulse with plans that relate to reality. He’s like a really intelligent id.
Mike you stay where you belong
Antarctica?
WELL ITS ABOUT TIME
I wonder how Mike will go about this. I’m guessing he’ll suggest some kind of friends with benefits scenario?
Yeah, I have no idea how he actually expects to make this work. Ethan knows him and what he does better than anyone else in this comic. I guess if he likes a challenge he found one. But I don’t actual see him succeeding
http://imgur.com/gallery/7Sf7E
Killing spiders…
STOOOOOOP
Ah, Mike Warner. Sexual orientation: asshole.
That could easily be misinterpreted…
Comic Reactions:
First up, ugh, Mike. Just ugh.
I know I’m a bit of a broken record on this, but Mike in this more realistic universe as a regular 18-year-old kid really suffers for it and here he continues to just be that toxic shitty friend who makes everything worse for shits and giggles and everything about his characterization as currently exists just makes me hope that Ethan and Amber/AG can ditch this toxic asshole and let themselves heal from their abusive parents in a way that doesn’t have them looking behind their backs every five seconds or worrying that every new connection they make is gonna be Miked.
Ethan here is breaking my goddamn heart here. I mean, what he’s having to do here is beg his long-time “friend” not to harm a new important friend in his life, a complete civilian to Mike’s “games” simply because Ethan dared make the “mistake” of letting that friend cross Mike’s radar.
He even “cashes” in some of the respect he feels his long friendship with Mike (which has included Mike regularly poking at fresh wounds and even driving him back into the closet with his bullshit) has earned to beg Mike not to ruin his friend’s life.
And that he feels the need to. That he’s so used to his shitty emotionally abusive mother that he feels he needs this toxic asshole he doesn’t even fully trust not to try and emotionally hurt his friends in his life simply because he’s always been there is just tragic.
No person should ever have to feel they need to look over their shoulder to see if someone who calls themselves a friend is going to hurt the important people in their life. That dynamic is fundamentally abusive and awful and if there is one single solitary glimmer of hope, it’s that Ethan seems to be starting to realize that Mike is toxic and awful and does not actually do any of the things actual friends do.
I mean, let’s look at Mike directly. We know that when Ethan came out and his mom reacted brutally awfully, it was Amber and not Mike who took the hits to fight for his identity with her, despite her long-history of social anxiety. Where was Mike? Absent again. We know that Ethan has had a long history of supporting Amber, helping her pick up the pieces from all the damage her dad did to her and Mike was… absent again except when making things worse and awkward and ruining attempts to hang as a group.
We know his assholery has most harmed Amber and Ethan, driving one more into a toxic alter out of fear of becoming her father and one temporarily back into the closet. We have seen him provide not one lick of support for his two friends who’ve been going through tough times this last month outside of physically being present when Ethan recruits him to check up on Amber.
We’ve also seen how much healthier Ethan is when he’s not hanging out with Mike. We’ve seen how his friendship with Danny has allowed him to be more confident in his charm and sexuality. We’ve seen how his friendship with Joyce has helped him uncloset himself again. The longer he stays away, the more healthy he is, the closer he is to recovering from the damage his mom and dad have done to him.
And here’s Mike in the later panels plotting to ruin it by ingratiating himself more into Ethan’s life, to fuck with what little self-confidence he has and sleep with him simply because it’s a loophole of fucking with a guy who’s “crime” to Mike is existing near him and having an identity he feels he can exploit for the “lulz”. And the one who will be actually hurt is Ethan.
Cause having a long-time friend find you attractive and sleep with you all as a complicated way of saying fuck you and your begging for humane treatment is one of those things that really fucks with your self-confidence and your image of yourself as sexy. I mean, holy fuck.
I don’t get why you say Mike helped/pressured Ethan get back in the closet, if anything he was the first to call him out on what a bad decision that was.
Because Ethan went right back into the closet as a direct response to Mike teasing him over all the things he’s lost coming out as gay and right after ruining Ethan’s attempt to hang out with his old buddies by bringing up how his coming out ruined his friendship with Amber:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/extolling/
Like, it was clearly not his intention to cause that and he wasn’t trying to drive Ethan back into the closet, but he was using Ethan’s sexuality to fuck with him and hammer on his self-confidence so it’s not entirely unsurprising that Ethan just went “fuck it, I’m tired of losing things including the love of my parents because of this sexuality thing, so fuck the sexuality, fake straightness here I come”.
Yeah–Ethan was fretting that he was always going to be alone because he was gay, and instead of reassuring him that wasn’t true (which is what Amber would have done if she’d been in that conversation) Mike presented him with the dichotomy of “live a lie and be sexually unfulfilled” or “be honest and miserably isolated.” I don’t care if he said it in a sarcastic tone of voice; that’s the choice he presents and there’s nothing in what he says or Ethan’s experience to say that that second part isn’t as valid as the first. And then he judges Ethan for listening to him and deciding he doesn’t want to be alone.
Something I’m going to point out:
With her unpredictability and her Amazi-Girl issues, Amber is kind of a toxic friend as well. Not intentionally one like Mike, but…she’s been emotionally abusive towards both Ethan and Danny when they’ve crossed lines that are either none of her business (Ethan dating Joyce as he tries to work out who he is) or nonsensical and unpredictable (everything involving how Danny has to interact with her vs. Amazi-Girl). Screaming, insults, the works. Then she feels bad about it later, so it’s supposed to be okay. And then two queer men who badly want to explore this side of themselves they’re acknowledging for the first time ever have to set their feelings aside because they’d hurt Amber’s feelings, they owe her their support (and their chastity), which in a comic that’s supposed to be very celebratory and inclusive for queer people feels really weird. A bi man and a gay man are literally putting aside their feelings for the benefit of a straight woman (one who just DUMPED one of them, no less).
I’m hoping Mike shakes this all up, because at this point Amber doesn’t need comfort by two 100% passive and supportive friends, she needs to see that her blow-ups have consequences and that Danny and Ethan have lives outside of her. I don’t want her to be a sobbing wreck on the floor, nor do I want Danny or Ethan permanently traumatized, but I want Mike to make them all acknowledge this whole house of cards (two men who are deeply attracted to one another awkwardly trying not to act on it for the benefit of a straight friend/ex-girlfriend who’s unhealthily trying to juggle two identities and lashing out at anyone who calls her on it) is fragile, dangerous, and doesn’t actually help anyone.
It’d be great if the three of them could just sit down at a table and work this shit out, but life doesn’t work this way. Mike is being an agent of chaos and change.
Danny didn’t confess his attraction to Ethan because he wanted him, he did it because he wanted to stop being ashamed of his sexuality. Like, Amber and Danny broke up earlier that day, and that was a relationship Danny took a lot of validation in. Danny even says outright that he’s not doing it so he can date Ethan, he’s doing it to remove his shame over being attracted.
As for them putting themselves on hold for Amber, Christ no. They both like her and they think them (ie: her best friend and her ex) dating would be mean to her. It’s generally kinda sorta not cool to get together with friends’ exes the day of their breakup.
Danny and Ethan are not in love with each other. They’re not spending every moment pining for their love to never be. They’re not castigating themselves for that shrill harpy. They’re friends and they’re crushing on each other, and they’ve both decided the feelings of a mutual friend matter more than a crush, and that’s about it.
Anyway, yeah, Amber’s in a bad place and she freaks out and does awful shit and explodes in guilt because of being in that bad place. It’s not the same as Mike going out of his way to make people miserable for his own enjoyment. Amber’s actions aren’t okay, she pretty much always takes those actions and uses them as more fuel for why she’s a terrible human being.
I feel I came off too antagonistic here, so I hope I can try this again.
Like, I went over this a lot on this page, but I really don’t see the way Danny/Amber/Ethan is going down as them castigating themselves over their ex. Like, it’s not that they won’t live without dating one another, it’s just that they’re interested in each other, but right now Amber’s feelings matter more than that crush and physical attraction. Once they get some time to realize that they want to give themselves a shot, and for Amber to be in a better place, they’ll be together.
And even if I disagree with you about Danny and Ethan unfairly stopping themselves over Amber, since Danny still caring for Amber and wanting the best for her makes me really happy, because what I’m used to is seeing queer dudes just blot out their girlfriends the first chance they get and I’m glad that DoA is showing that Danny still loves her a lot, I feel you. There’s not enough representation to go around, and we both deserve works of fiction that give us what we want sometimes, and I feel like DoA’s doing both. Like, right now Danny still cares for Amber and he’s taking pride as a bi dude and allowing himself to be attracted to a man, and also we’re gonna see these two get together down the line, probably not longer than maybe a year.
Holy crap, I’m going to repost this comment without my botched formatting (was trying to quote you in sections. I hate this commenting system!)
No worries, man, thank you for responding in the first place. Sorry I didn’t address your other well-thought-out response yesterday.
It’s funny, I hadn’t reflected on that assumption about bi guys…and I put up with a LOT of people saying “are you sure you’re not gay? Oh, you’re bi, honey that’s just a stepping stone,” etc. I’m married to a wonderful woman, but those assumptions that I’d jump straight to guys–when I hadn’t even done anything with guys yet!–led to YEARS of insecurity. It probably IS a healthier portrayal of a bi guy to not immediately toss aside the woman he cared (cares) about in favor of that hot Ethan bod.
Like I said the other day, I’m probably projecting a bit with them, because due to the aforementioned assumptions made about me by other people I actively avoided experimenting in college (probably the best setting to do it), so I guess I’m impatiently waiting for them to act on their desires and treating Amber like a divider that will forever keep them apart. I don’t like Danny saying he’s trying to find a dude for Ethan–strikes me as a bit “I Want My Beloved To Be Happy”–but given the blushes and smiles they’re exchanging, they probably do plan on trying this out at some point.
I’m judging Amber too harshly. Mental problems are serious business. I just dislike how Danny seems to be pinballing between people with power over him, if that makes any sense…Dorothy broke his heart (not saying that’s a bad thing, but it is someone sending him reeling), then he went to Amber who was a decent girlfriend but set down very strict, unhealthy rules for him to obey. He felt kinda like a puppy dog, passive and desperate for affection.
Ethan seemed to be the one place where Danny was actually taking the initiative, someone he was going to seek out on his own. I guess him admitting his feelings to Ethan is still taking the initiative and owning part of his life, though.
Does any of that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely.
For what it’s worth, Danny isn’t trying to find Ethan a boyfriend to smother his feelings for him, it really is that he likes Ethan, but because right now both think they don’t want to date, he wants to do something nice. He’s letting himself be comfortable with his feelings for Ethan and not judging himself for them anymore, but eventually he’s not gonna be okay with “just” being friends, and when that comes he and Ethan are going to pursue it because they realize they’re worth pursuing, and that them being together isn’t going to break Amber’s heart.
I guess why I really enjoy that is because I also kind of realized on my own that I did like guys. I’ve never been with a guy, and it’s possible I never will, so it’s been really, really great for me to see Danny make all this progress and mature and take pride in his sexuality without needing, like, “proof” for it to work. I’ve experienced a lot of insecurity over whether I can say I’m “really bi”, so Danny plowing through all those hurdles because he was tired of being ashamed of them, I just really loved it.
And, yeah, that’s fair about Amber. I sympathize with her a lot because we suffer from a lot of the same issues when it comes to boxing emotions out of a need to try and make up for abusive childhoods, but she has made a lot of mistakes. She’s not dealing with her trauma and her issues well, and it’s causing her to do really dumb stuff and lash out, and instead of recognizing that it’s okay to lash out because sometimes you snap after a lifetime of abuse, she just puts it in a box and uses it as motivation for why she needs to keep doing the exact same thing, and, well, yeah, that’s me too. A lot about Amber’s struggles feels reflective of my own experiences, so that’s probably why I’m so willing to leap to her character’s defense.
Being disappointed that Danny and Ethan aren’t together yet is fair, and my disappointment that Danny and Amber broke up and they’re not gonna be cute and read slash fic together for all eternity is fair too, because that’s bi representation for ya. There’s just not enough to go around, so we’ve got 10 different people with 20 different views on what they want to see because we’re so starved for good bi characters that Danny ends up having to live up to all of them.
Also, that Panel 3… Ugh.
Like, this is why I feel Mike is to familiar to real-life assholes to be enjoyable in this universe. Ethan makes a genuine plea full of empathy and appeals to mutual friendship. What’s Mike’s response?
Treating it as some big huge thing. Oh, Danny’s untouchable, ungh. Here, I’ll make a scout swear that’s completely disingenuous to show how grand this request of me is, even though what’s being asked is like the baseline minimum of any actual friendship (don’t fuck over my friends for shits and giggles is literally the least you can ask of a friend or hell, even an acquaintance, it can literally be done with the absence of effort).
And it’s all a lie, but that action of treating a minor appeal for humanity as if this is some huge onerous ask and then justifying not doing that, to the point where he straight up frowns and passively glares at Ethan’s retreating back is something real life assholes do all the time. It’s deeply familiar from the times I had to beg for humane treatment despite being trans from assholes who acted like not discriminating against me or trying to harm me was some great big ask.
And I hate to see Ethan go through that here. He deserves better than this shit stain in his life. He deserves better than to have to beg for the bare minimum of humane treatment.
He deserves a friend who is actually his friend and actually values his company.
And until Mike sorts his shit out, he deserves no friendships until he can actually be something other than a toxic scumsucker to anyone who “dares” be close to him.
Thank you for taking the time to write today’s (and all other days’, really -I always enjoy reading your comic response posts, because of how articulate, well-thought-out and emotional they are) comic response. I’m sad and horrified that you’ve had to deal with this kind of shit -that anyone has had to, really, although there’s a tiny element of something almost like relief that someone else _gets_ it, that I’m not completely nuts. You’ve articulated here a number of things that bother me not only about Mike, but about people in my own life in clearer words than I have ever managed, and as someone who struggles with articulating anything, especially pertaining to feelings, I can’t begin to express how much I appreciate that additional clarity -as well as a way to start explaining to other people in my life who _do_ care and try to help.
Here are a number of internet hugs of sympathy and appreciation; I will be leaving them at the bottom of the post to be taken by anyone who needs or wants them. (because hugs are great, but they don’t help anyone and freaking people out by trapping them against their wishes is Not Right.)
(>^.^)> (>^.^)> (>^.^)> (>^.^)> (>^.^)> (>^.^)> (>^.^)>
*kirby hugs* right back atcha!
*hugs don’t help everyone. They do help some of us. Thank you for the Kirby hugs. (and here I thought I was so careful on typos. *sigh*)
Without Mary, I’d be pretty sure part of why I can actually like Mike is this has exactly nothing to do with any asshole I’ve ever dealt with. It’s far more long term than any asshole I’ve ever known RL. They just went for the most immediate strikes they could. They didn’t have plans or patience. Just the knowledge they could only go so far at any given time without alienating everyone else, but at worst only deal with occasional appeals to their humanity elsewise. Which was about as successful as it was with Mike (Less, really).
But then, that’s Mary, and I like her as a character, so eh.
Shit, WHAT!? This was supposed to be an unattached comment.
And until Mike sorts his shit out, he deserves no friendships until he can actually be something other than a toxic scumsucker to anyone who “dares” be close to him.
He should take an involuntary sabbatical in the Amazon.
He’s keeping his promise though! He’s not going after Danny! Good Guy Mike?
no, that’s not good. that’s “minimally acceptable”.
Mike’s version of Good Guy Greg is Minimal Malevolence Mike.
I honestly think Mike even being interested in seducing Ethan proves this whole thing is more than just Ethan and Danny both thinking the other is hot. Isn’t Mike supposed to be some kind of human bullshit detector ready and willing to throw it in people’s faces? Shouldn’t he know Danny wanting Ethan to hook up with someone else is bullshit? If he sensed Danny didn’t actually care what fun would this be for him? How would he turn either into a jealous mess unless he could somehow sense in that brief interaction that there was more going on here than what they’re saying on the surface?
Mikes just an asshole looking for excuses to hurt people.
But is Mike’s BSDetector properly calibrated?
(Of course, this is in the midwest, so there is likely some genuine product around somewhere. Does IU have a veterinary program that turns city kids in fake farm kids as the first step? I am told Texas A&M does.)
Texas A&M is part of a system of land grant universities designed to have programs in “agriculture and the mechanic arts” (hence the name A&M) – Purdue is part of this system, IU is not.
100% this, assuming his characterization is still like he was in It’s Walky! and the limited amount of Shortpacked! I read. He’s an agent of chaotic assholery, sure, but sometimes what drives him to action is a desire to call someone out on their bullshit.
Thumbs up mike
What a prick. Wait… that’s a bit too ambiguous for this situation, isn’t it?
I have noticed that in Shortpacked, Mike beats up Ethan several times throughout. This would be okay (for a certain factor of okay), except for the fact that Mike can bench press a car. Yet, Ethan remained both alive, and uncrippled! Either Ethan is way more durable then we think he is, or whenever Mike punched someone he was actually hitting them lightly as possible.
It’s a cartoon. Calm down.
DoA is complete in itself and independent of previous works of Willis.
Some settling may have occurred during shipment.
… but doesn’t turning Danny into a jealous, whimpering mess count as doing Mike things to Danny?
…. also, how’s that a challenge? He’s already kinda jealous and whimpering.
So… what I get from this strip is that, Mike sees himself as Ethan’s friend, even if he will troll him to death?
<..>
“50 or 60 percent sure you are” oh Ethan
I know, right? Like, holy fuck is that one of the most depressing lines in the comic and that’s saying something considering one of the characters in the comic is a depressed woman who’s currently suicidally ideating.
ok honestly curious how is it depressing? I mean I kind of do that with my friends since i know from experience people can go from friend to person who never acknowledges you exist in less than a day. knowing the percent makes it hurt less when the shift eventually happens.
Because the unspoken 40-50 percent isn’t Ethan thinking Mike might be an acquaintance or someone more distant from him, it’s him realizing Mike might be a straight up enemy and someone who mostly just hangs out with him because Ethan is “foolish” enough to let Mike continually try and ruin parts of his life.
well if you don’t let people who might be an enemy into your life there really isn’t anyone you can let in your life though.
You’re making a lot of false equivalences here. If you think someone might be an enemy even after knowing them for half a decade then you should cut your loses and get outta there.
This.
And this is especially true of friendships. If you can only be barely over half sure that a friend is actually a friend and isn’t just an enemy after having known them for years, that’s a major red flag of some serious toxicity and that it’s time to cut your losses.
On the one hand, Machiavelli said to keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
On the other hand, Machiavelli was talking about controlling a city, and the only city Ethan wants to control is made up of multiple Metroplexes and Trypticons.
So, yeah, ditch Mike as a friend. …. if he even CAN be ditched.
That’s from “The Godfather” — tho Machiavelli would probably agreed.
Time for a transporter accident to split Mike into Evil Mike and Meh Mike?
Evil Mike and Drunk Mike.
Just once, I’d like to see Mike’s plans gloriously backfire.
That kind of happened when he tried to fuck with Walky and Dorothy in Gender Studies, and instead they ended up sealing the deal in response to him being a shit.
Chances are we’ll see that again here too.
Isn’t that his ultimate goal here, though?
If you mean that he’s intending to get them together, probably not. That makes sense if he’s doing this to spite Amber, but here’s two dudes crushing on each other, and Mike seems invested in banging one so they’re both miserable.
IF you mean Danny and Ethan overcoming Mike’s bullshit and getting together in spite of it, that may happen. In all honesty, I really just want them to be something that develops on its own time without any Mike-fueled “now kith” stuff. Like, I’m hoping whatever Mike is doing just ends up being something they both brush off and we get back to them being cute and flirty and eventually realizing that, oh shit, dating you would be fun after all.
That’s my ideal hope as well. Mike is kind of the monkey wrench that this nicely developing cuteness really doesn’t need, because their current pace actually suits both their needs really well in healthy ways.
Honestly, I’m glad he’s doing this. We might see something of Ethan/Danny before I’m on life support (Or see them really bury things, which suits me fine too, since it’s not the holding pattern of two days ago). Because they flatly /need/ a catalyst, because of Amber. So if Willis’ goal is to get Ethan/Danny together or buried, then he is in fact being a human plot device. Mike’s goals are immaterial to me, incidentally.
I mean, I was kinda hoping that catalyst would just be them eventually realizing the whole “never ever ever” line was dumb and that they did like each other and they wanted to give themselves a shot. Like, oh shit I do like you, and you know what, I’ve also realized that dating you isn’t going to ruin Amber’s life (I also figured we’d actually seem them start working towards things after the Dark Amazi-Girl Saga was over, but who knows).
Willis doesn’t really do time skips. That’s a really understandable catalyst. But that takes more than, let’s be charitable, and say 3 days, to figure out. 3 days is a /long/ time, and it’s sort of the best case. You’ve rightly mentioned that IMMEDIATELY exitting a relationship and into another has issues. You’re right, under normal circumstances. How much better is ‘a week’, under the circumstances? (Obviously for Danny on his own entering a relationship, that’s fine, it’s the Danethan thing that is a little dicier)
This’ll let something happen like, before the end of next year. That’s a long time to tease us with either the inevitable or the never happening.
That’s a good way of looking at it. I think I’m looking at this as, like, Mike immediately throwing them into the realization that they’re super into each other and want to date now or something, rather than him just complicating the situation.
Oh, IC Mike is still being a titanic dick. I’m speaking of his narrative role, not his in-universe appearance.
Mike MIGHT be trying to get them together I guess. I don’t know. But what he’s TRYING to do is irrelevant next to his actual narrative role for what I’m saying.
So, a catalyst could be useful here. But, why Mike? Why not someone who has *just now* demonstrated a willingness to “rip off that stupid band-aid for [anyone]”? Who doesn’t by all appearances do every action for the sole purpose of making everyone as miserable as possible?
I now have this picture of Carla on an anti-drama rampage. Just solving all of the problems, one after another. Who else will pitch in cookies for her?
Except he has never really faced any actual person repercussion for his constant abusiveness and manipulation.
Yeah, the trouble with Mike’s plans backfiring is that it gets used as an excuse for Mike – That’s what he wanted all along, see how much good he does by being an asshole.
so…… it becomes a three way? is that a backfire or a bonus panel in the 18 up version of this comic?
That’s every single Mike thing in this comic, with it at least backfiring once to the detriment of the target.
God I love Mike
I feel like this, more than anything, would actually end up blowing up in Mike’s face. Seducing either one is doing his Mike thing to both of them, and following through on the thought is proving that he’s not Ethan’s friend.
Has he ever claimed to be Ethan’s friend?
That is actually a really good point.
I did an archive search, it looks like Mike has not once actually called Amber and Ethan friends of his (or at least not in comics where both he and Ethan are on-panel together) and usually its Ethan arguing that they are or recruiting him to help him check-in with Amber.
Interestingly enough I also found this comic where Ethan says Mike doesn’t really have friends just people he’s willing to stand next to:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/stand/
So take from that what you will.
How often has anyone explicitly called someone else friend? It’s a particularly weird way to phrase the argument, when you should actually be using the way the characters interact with each other.
That being said, the content of this page has Mike claiming that he is Ethan’s friend, in panel 3. Panel 5 then calls into question whether he was lying(which he’s said he doesn’t usually do cause it doesn’t effectively get him what he wants) or he hasn’t thought through that either course of action ultimately leads to the same result.
Note: Nobody is saying that Mike isn’t a shitty friend, but that’s actually different from saying that he’s not their friend. Sometimes people have toxic relationships, and even if somebody sits down and says it would be healthier if you just cut those ties, that doesn’t make it easy to do. I was just pointing out that Ethan’s seemed to have reached a point where he’s holding the scissors, and Mike is walking into a Morton’s fork that will force that cut.
Ok, I usually find Mike kind of fun, in a guilty pleasure “He’s an ass, but he’s an over the top one and sometimes he says what I’m secretly thinking in his observations” kind of way. But no, Mike, no. I get it’s a whacky Mike plan, and maybe it will turn out alright for Ethan and Danny through various high jinks, but that doesn’t really redeem Mike for being this much of an asshole. Don’t fuck with people like this, especially when they’re trying to make life choices that make them feel stable and good, even if Mike does think he can push Ethan/Danny together through this, which, I’m not even sure Mike really cares if that happens as long as he gets to make chaos. Fucking with Danny by fucking with Ethan is almost worse than just fucking with Danny directly, especially since Ethan just asked Mike not to pull his Mike BS. I’m not even amused by Mike right now, I’m just irked by him.
All of this.
Which is how you should always feel about him because he’s always pulling this stuff.
Granted, yeah, I would never say Mike is a likable “person”, rather an interesting character, but even in the last comic, at least his observations were right. Awful and self serving, but a refreshingly objective perspective. But this kind of crap is what reminds me that Mike is a sporadic guilty dalliance because of his analytical observations, but he’s not actually an enjoyable one.
Why do everyone think it’s likely that Mike sees that plan through? Seems more like stories he builds in his head because he’s bored than anything else, honestly.
Because Mike’s personality outright matches his Walkyverse counterpart, where he pulled off something similar.
Yeah that’s my feeling in general. This goes too far, but that’s not something that concerns Mike. I guess this time around he’ll have to deal with Ethan’s ex girlfriend though (Joyce) unlike in the Walkyverse.
Proper Mike/Ethan might be going to happen.
I don’t know what to do with this information.
All the Mike paneltime. I need all the Mike paneltime.
now i am wondering what mike would think of me and i am thinking he might be similar to hiruma from eyeshield 21
i’m just going to sit here in my trashcan of -mangled gasp- “did that just Happen” -noms popcorn- *WIDE EYES*
i don’t. i don’t have any justifications. if mike were a real person i would hate his guts. as he’s a fictional character i don’t feel the same way
this is a trash situation. this is trashy, trashy soap opera drama, and it’s not going to end until gentlemen are sipping high tea in between sordid bouts of sex and your mom jokes while amazigirl watches for great justice from the vents so that amber doesn’t have to and takes notes for better fanfiction accuracy
this is all, technically, Terrible, but i still feel a profound and uncanny sense of glee that i cannot rationally or morally justify which is bewildering???
also i think this might be the first time the comic passed the reverse-bechdel test
Ironically enough only because of the reverse-lesbian-porn-loophole that Joe noted back during that arc.
Reverse-Lesbian-Porn-Loophole?
Joe discovered the lesbian porn loophole in the Bechdel test .
Two guys talking about banging other guys is presumably the reverse Bechdel version of that.
Wow, formatting went hella screwed up there.
That link should instead be attached to a “here” after the words “Bechdel Test”, and not somehow attached to the next, unrelated, sentence.
“So wait, does that mean lesbian porn passes the Bechdel Test”
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/thehangover/
heck
Reverse test?
the bechdel test is if you can consume a media and two women talk about something that isn’t about men.
the reverse bechdel, then, would be if you can consume a media and two men talk about something that isn’t about women. failure on this point is more remarkable than success because it’s so rare
Really? Wow. I think I’d be insulted if I wasn’t always thinking about the misses.
I’m fairly certain it’s passed that reverse test several times over.
Yup. Ethan and Danny have talked about lots of stuff other than women. Walky and Joe talked about shoe ownership. Walky and Jason talked about grades.
….ugh i don’t want to do the research DON’T MAKE ME -flails-
I DON’T HAVE THE TIME TO BINGEREAD DUMBING OF AGE I HAVE TO READ CASSANDRA CAIN COMICS
Yep, even Ethan and Mike have passed before – when Ethan was eating at Chick Filet and Mike wouldn’t let him live it down.
That sounds like a cannibal restaurant that exclusively serves cuts of female.
there had to be a female cow going “moo” in the background somewhere
I have this feeling that Mike has started something that may have wildly unpredictable consequences that he cannot predict or even imagine at this stage.
I really, really don’t get all the antipathy towards Mike. When Carla’s being an asshole, it’ll all “Go, girl”, but when it’s Mike, it’s like “He’s a jerk with no feelings and no excuse”. Strange.
I think with Carla it’s ‘rallying against haters’ and with Mike it’s “What did they do to you?”
Carla’s an asshole. She’s an asshole who will have to deal with a lot of shit in her life that most people won’t, and she certainly doesn’t work to endear herself to others, but most of the stuff that gets (and unfortunately, will likely continue to get, as her life goes on) thrown at her isn’t her chickens coming home to roost, and is based instead solely on uncontrollable aspects of her body and mind not having been exactly the way they were expected to be. Carla is obnoxious and loud, but she doesn’t actively go out of her way to make people’s lives worse (until and unless they’ve targeted her) -and in fact honestly cares about others, sometimes even when they’ve hurt her (no matter how much she doesn’t want to).
Mike works to destroy people. Mike goes out of his way to find the things about people that hurt them most and find ways to use them to hurt them more -a trait he had in the other ‘verse, where it was mitigated somewhat by his overall goodish intentions and near-universal positive-outcome rate -as well as his ability to be a nice person on occasion.
As for the comments… I’ve seen people call out Carla a lot more than Mike, although there’ve been a few strips like today where he’s been particularly out of line, but my guess is that it’s about who they go after. Carla targets Mary, who is a nearly-universally disliked character both in- and out- of comic; a posturing, hypocritical, malevolent, manipulative bully who’s openly targeted not only Carla herself, but Ruth at her most vulnerable in a manner that poses a threat to Becky. Beyond that… she stood up for her favorite cartoon when Walky dismissed it and picked a fight and threw a minor insult at Dorothy in the process, but she hasn’t really done much beyond that that worsened anyone’s lives.
Mike, however, has caused or tried to cause hurt/problems for Danny, Ethan, Amber, Walky, Dorothy, and Joyce (and Joe? The date of Doom?) (one could also argue Becky -I believe I did somewhere above) -and that’s just off the top of my head -and with few possible (not given, just possible) potentially benign or benevolent intentions that could be ascribed to him. He targets vulnerable, well-liked and well-developed (on grounds of screentime, I mean) characters in their weak spots. So yeah, I doubt I’d find either of them a likable person in person, but I feel there’s a difference of orders of magnitude in their jerkness.
Carla’s a porcupine. She will (metaphorically) fuck you up if you fuck with her, but only if you fuck with her.
Mike, on the other hand, is a cassowary. He is dangerous simply to be around, and if you get too close to him, he’ll go after you just because you’re there.
What I mean is: Carla’s assholitude is a defense mechanism, while Mike’s is just pure aggression. Carla doesn’t particularly enjoy hurting people, even her most hated enemies (see why her retaliation against Mary caused Mary no lasting harm, and just bruised her ego a little bit), and if they get hurt by her, it is purely their own actions that cause the pain. Mike, on the other hand, practically exists for the sole purpose of hurting people.
This and what most others said.
Carla tries to be seen as an asshole, because, in her mind, being seen as an asshole is safer because no one fucks with an asshole. Whereas Mike actually just is an asshole and a bully and tries to hurt people in his life and who drift across his radar, because he’s bored and dissatisfied and angry all the time and so doesn’t really much care who he hurts as long as it’s someone.
And we see that in the rest of their characters. Carla makes a lot of noise about being an asshole, but can’t sustain it. When people are hurting, she tends to be there trying to care for them as best she can. She’s deliberately non-violent and the only big time she’s really gone after someone, it was against someone who deliberately targeted her for harassment and abuse because of her identity and instead of trying to ruin that person’s life, she focused her revenge scheme entirely on trying to send a message that her humanity is not something she is going to compromise on.
Even in minor asshole moments like telling Rachel she’ll make her ringtone “All Star”, she restrains it to when people are teasing her or people who are openly antagonistic to her.
Whereas Mike actively tries to ruin people’s lives and openly ruins them not because they do anything to Mike, but because they won’t. He deliberately goes after people already conditioned to not fight back to defend themselves and shies away from situations where he could genuinely stand to lose something fucking with someone. And chooses the targets for his abuse based solely on them passing by his radar and existing physically close to his presence. And he often harasses people using their identities or insecurities as a weapon leaving lasting damage or putting people in worse circumstances for knowing him.
And unlike Carla, Mike doesn’t really have a good heart underneath it all (or if he does, he hasn’t shown it in this comic universe at least), to the point where even his closest “friend” has to beg him not to ruin the lives of those he’s close to, because that’s a genuine consequence of having Mike as a “friend”.
It’s really comparing apples and oranges at that point to say, “well, they’re both assholes so why do people like one and not the other”, because it’s like the difference between liking the gruff, but lovable reluctant hero and liking the straight out villain.
“Straight,” hehe.
Agreed on everything, though.
Yeah. I chose my animal analogies intentionally. Note how a porcupine wouldn’t need it’s spines if it wasn’t constantly under danger of attack.
Wait, people don’t like Mike? He’s the funniest character in the comic.
I love your choice of analogies. Also think it’s interesting that a porcupine can accidentally cause damage if you get too close and freak it out, whereas a cassowary actually has to (but will) try to bring the pain.
We haven’t seen Carla cause much accidental pain from being freaked out by someone, but I wouldn’t be surprised – she’s got the bullying victim armor of abrasiveness up in full force. I know before I was comfortable enough with people to stop trying to be abrasive all the time, I did cause my share of accidental hurt, simply because someone would be nice to me, I’d assume they were pulling some trick on me and react accordingly, and the other person (who genuinely did have good intentions) would be left confused and hurt that I responded as if they were trying to fuck with me.
Would not be surprised at all if Carla does that to Joyce and/or Dorothy if either of them tries to befriend her (Especially Joyce. Because, well, Joyce. She means well, but on stuff she’s yet to re-evaluate her beliefs on, she hits every single “dangerous disingenuous asshole bigot” red flag there is. I would not blame Carla at all for assuming Joyce is just a smilier Mary – because smilier Marys exist, and if you’re constantly under fire the way I’m sure Carla is, extending the benefit of the doubt becomes a risk you can’t emotionally afford to take.)
It’s also possible that people that hate on Carla but love Mike are just slightly bigots. Or is possible that they’ve dealt with Carla’s brand of assholery but not Mikes, and as such think Mike’s is just a caricature.
The difference is mostly that Mike loves being an asshole. If he has to go the extra mile to be an asshole, he will be that asshole. No cause is too great for his assholery!
Also, his targets are usually innocuous, average people. No one that’s harmed him, he’s just dicking with people because… just because.
Carla assholery usually is a response to other people being an asshole to her, or at least being mildly rude to her. She doesn’t really care about anyone else, so she won’t go out of her way to go after them.
Meanwhile, Mike would kick Jesus in the nuts, just because he can.
…in retrospect, I’m a bit surprised WalkyVerse-Mike never did kick Historical Jesus in the nuts…
Carla definitely wants the reputation of being one though, like how she wanted people to think she was cool enough to be the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit.
She’s just not the best at actually being one.
Exactly. Carla’s really pretty lousy at it. She talks it up. She’s obnoxious. She apparently pulls sweet pranks, though the only one we’ve actually seen was on Mary and completely justified.
Behind the facade of asshole, she keeps helping people – treating Amber’s wounds, looking after Ruth, etc.
Behind Mike’s facade? Nothing, near as I can tell.
Carla has never targeted anyone who didn’t deserve it.
Mike has never targeted anyone who did.
Carla is only rarely an asshole.
Mike is never anything but.
Carla has actually helped people.
Mike has never done anything that doesn’t make somebody’s life worse.
Unless pointing out inconsistencies and (perceived) hypocrisies can be classed as “helping.” One horrid little unfiltered person with whom I once shared workspace called it “just bein’ honest.” Sure did hate it, though, coming back.
I think there’s a difference between the levels of asshole Carla will carry out and what Mike is proposing here. Carla’s not going to sleep with someone just to get a bit of revenge while Mike seemingly would.
And not even revenge. Just to make the closest thing he has to a friend miserable.
This isn’t like Carla playing a prank on Mary – this is Carla screwing Sal over.
I dunno, I would wager Mike selects his targets for specific reasons. I mean look at how much time was dedicated to targeting Walky – all because he annoyed him when he tried to sleep and such.
I could see Ethan being a target because of how he’s been acting lately. I could see that annoying Mike as well. Plus getting under Danny’s skin could get under Dorothy’s and thus back at Walky AGAIN.
Eh, I feel that’s a bit of a stretch. His targets seem to be based on proximity more than reasons. Like, he targets Walky a lot because Walky shares a room with him. And he targets Dorothy because she’s sleeping with Walky and thus exists in his room on occasion or hangs out near him. He targets Ethan because Ethan’s a friend and tries to hang out with him.
Hell, he’s only decided to really go after Danny here because Danny existed near him and “gave him” something he felt he could exploit.
And only fucked with him the first time because he went through all the trouble of stalking behind Walky and Dorothy early in the morning during the shoes drama for the express purpose of fucking with both of them and decided to add Danny to that list because he now existed in proximity to him.
In that, he’s not dissimilar to Mary in that a lot of commenters will make excuses for him arguing he’s trying to do good or he’s motivated by more than just the physical proximity of his targets and out of some real grievances mostly related to the reality of having to co-exist with other humans, but what really bothers him is other people exist around him.
Well, that was a rather important chain of messages. But I really get the feeling that people are not referring to Dumbiverse Mike. I re-read every strip he’s appeared on, and ultimately, he did nothing damaging. He said stuff but never acted on it.
What I see is a guy being largely dismissed and ignored, surrounded by people too caught up in often unnecessary drama to even pay mind to his presence, and who’s immature in his own ways. Such as being provocative to get people’s attention, being cut and dry about their shortcomings. Nothing worth being subjected to repeated physical violence (which he has been), to which his responses were only sarcasm and withdrawal, might I add, not retaliation.
So a total asshole unworthy of any recognition, really? I think you’re blindly siding with the agressor, there. I’ve seen people say he’s an unworthy friend, but I feel a lot more like he should hang out with people who give him more credit.
Well Mike, apparently we need a new heel. Looks like you’ve been called up for a match.
Mike seducing Ethan, okay THAT I so want to see XD
So… What is Mike? I’m thinking aromantic pansexual – he doesn’t have any hang-ups about who he has sex with but there is never an emotional content to it. Additionally, I suspect he is a nihilist with the interesting edge that being beaten for his actions actually serves as a validation for him as it proves (in his mind) his personal philosophy that the world is a place of hypocrisy, cruelty, stupidity, short-sighted selfishness, evil and nothing else.
The word you’re looking for is “asshole.”
I’m thinking aro ace, or maybe demi or grey. Sexual attraction just doesn’t seem to be a factor in his choosing a target for sex at all, and I’m willing to offer that it’s because he’s never really felt it.
Granted, that means I share my sexual orientation with Mike… but I’m wiling to make that sacrifice for the sake of truthiness
Definitely not ace, Amber can get him going. It’s only been shown once in this universe but since sexuality carries over from the other and they had a rather intense and enthusiastic sex life…
He made a comment about AG straddling him and holding him down -Mike being really into BDSM …. I’m trying to say that it seems like a thing he’d get off on just given how much emotional pain he seems to enjoy causing, but I can’t figure out how to do it in a way that doesn’t suggest that anyone who’s into any of that would also be into acting like Mike.
I know some people hate labels. But he seems heterosexual
For a heterosexual, he sure fucks a lotta dudes!
I think we can safely establish Mike as only having boners for the pain of others.
That’s why he doesn’t use lube.
God, why are we saying obvious things? 😛
God damn it, Mike, stop weaponizing bisexuality!
I’ve always taken Mike for more of a Hatesexual.
He only gets aroused if the sex will bum somebody out.
He seems to be into BDSM, if his comments to Amazi-girl, when she restrained and threatened him, are any indication.
Those comments disturbed and hurt Amber. That what he’s into.
He’s an emotional sadist. Assuming there’s any actual sexual content to his enjoyment.
Might go beyond just emotional. Cerberus brought up how playing Walky and Danny off against each other could’ve led to violence, and Amber’s activities as AG aren’t doing her any favors -add in that people in substantial emotional pain often take it out upon their meatsuits….
Seriously? Maybe he had just been subjected to sudden unjustified physical assault and simply defended himself with sarcasm. Getting tired of this black an white (well, mostly black) vision of Mike. It gets old really, really quickly.
Thank you. I’m a little amazed at this sudden vitriol for a character who’s been The Asshole in every single comic in the Walkyverse. Particularly given I’m supposed to forgive acts of unprovoked assholishness or violence from other characters in the strip. Ruth straight-up slapped Mary in the face, anybody remember that, or the time she clotheslined Billie? How about that Amazi-Girl attacking Mike thing, eh? We gonna just handwave her suddenly assaulting him? How about Carla skating in the hall disturbing people, then doing PARKOUR to disturb people? How about almost all of Sal and Malaya’s interactions?
There’s a ton of antagonistic or outright mean behavior in this comic I’m supposed to either laugh at or dismiss. But Mike, oh man, can’t let that slide. I’m honestly more than a bit annoyed by it.
I just realized that Dumbing of Age can cause some really bad FRIDGE HORROR (see tv tropes) moments like realizing that if things from here carry over to the original useses.
1. Ruth probably committed suicide deliberately while saving Danny.
2. Amber in Shortpacked probably was attracted to Mike because of how he reminded her of her father’s abusive assholery.
Regarding 2, that’s explicitly stated in the text. They bang, and then Mike says “You fucked me because I remind you of your abusive father.” then he leaves.
Not exactly.
Amber tried to prove to herself that she had overcome her father, and by dating Mike, the biggest asshole in the universe, she could do so. What neither of them actually expected was for it to become something genuine.
All that happens later. As I said, Mike explicitly states it in the text:
http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=713
Whether or not Mike is correct is another matter.
i’ve been thinking about it and here’s the end Theory of Mikeness:
what Mike does is manipulation and emotionally shitting on people. but, unlike Amber’s abusive father, he uses his manipulation not to control people but to be as much of an asshole as possible. to the point that after a while it stops being “oh wow i feel like shit” and starts being “oh that’s just Mike, feeling like shit means he wins”.
if you are someone used to being in an abusive situation, that is almost like relief. because instead of the end result being “oh i have to suffer through being beat up emotionally mentally and sometimes physically at somebody’s whims”, it has a much more direct result. Mike is the dude who has the urge to shit all over everyone’s day like a cat who can’t control its bodily functions, and that shit is both the end and the beginning of his goals.
so you can strap a diaper to the Mike-cat, knowing that it’s going to annoy the crap out of him and eventually he’ll find a way out; or, because it’s all emotional shittiness and not physical shittiness, you can find a way to just not care what he does. you own your space and your boundaries and he can’t touch you in there. you just have to get your shit in order so that everything he says bounces off you like teflon. which is what Amber did in Shortpacked.
[tangent: he literally proposed to her using her mom’s sex noises. I don’t. I can’t. that’s fucked up in the grossest of ways. and hilarious, because for a long time Amber’s mom did…not have a good time of it. but liiike???]
idk he’s both a missing stair and that asshole you can’t get rid of. in shortpacked it made more sense because he worked at the store. here it makes less sense because it’s college and he doesn’t really have to be a part of anybody’s social circle. they can stop talking to him anytime they want
Hmmm…has it been carried-over (to this universe) that Mike is nice when drunk, yet?
Well gee Mike, with friends like you…
That’s still doing something to Danny you stupid fuckwaffle.
…and yet I’m somehow expecting everyone’s reaction to Mike and Ethan getting together to be ‘well it’s about time’.
mike kinda reminds me of a ex-friend who i cut off but i still love when he’s in strips. some people just want to watch the world burn, and i’m one of them
Oh my god. I am so ready for a Mike storyline.
But Mike, why not both?!
Looks like everyone hoping for some hot yaoi slipshine action will get their wish afterall.
With Willis you have to be careful what you wish for. He’s almost as bad as Randy Milholland that way.
Willis has his moments, but nobody can break dreams like R.K. Milholland.
Like, can any of us look at Easter Eggs the same way ever again?
I am SO not going to look that up.
Thank you for the return of Mike! I love it even more because he seems to be similar enough to the original timeline’s Mike to really enjoy his shenanigans!
Mike’s weaponization of sex will always disturb me a bit.
There is a disturbing and near-sociopathic aspect to him, isn’t there?
Mike’s only not disturbing when he’s drunk.
And THAT’S a little disturbing, too.
Considering he is underage, I wonder if we will ever see that side of him in this universe?
I wonder if he knows about it?
Of course, it could not exist in this universe.
Mike: “I’ll get you admit your feelings for each other, even if I have to fuck you to do it.”
I await his biography: How to channel your assholery into good works.
…. but A) they’ve already admitted their feelings, B) Mike’s trying to torment them with their feelings rather than liberate them, and C) these aren’t good works.
Arguably the real admission here would be “actually I don’t want you to get with some other dude and I’m sure there’s a way to make us happen without hurting Amber”. Whether or not that last bit’s actually possible, who knows.
Also note that Mike wasn’t in the previous conversation. All he knows at this point is “these dudes want to bang so hard they’re like trinitroglycerin.”
Mike’s an asshole with either an aversion to people bullshitting around or who sees people bullshitting around as an opportunity to a constructive outlet to his assholery.
Of course, sometimes he’s just an asshole (see the time he sneaked his books into Walky’s backpack); other times, he’s a constructive asshole.
honestly if you want an asshole who channels their assholery into good works i think that’s Carla
i feel like for Mike assholery is the end and beginning of his motivations but it’s hard to say because he really doesn’t talk about his own feelings very much
Ehhh, Carla mostly fails at being an asshole. Even if she didn’t, she’d be an asshole who did good works, unrelated to her (potential) assholery. She’s certainly someone who’s tired of bullshit, though.
Ah, Mike…you prick. Well, it is a classic Mike moment though.
OH MY GOD MIKETHAN WAS MY BIGGEST SHORTPACKED SHIP
//fierce whisper// thank you
Predictably, this will end well for Mike. Of course everyone else in this strip grows and suffers and becomes a better person (or else gets used for comeuppance, like Mary or Toedad), but Mike’ll just keep chugging along because he’s not written as a human being. He’s not. Hence keeping his super-cartoonish character design.
That’s pretty much why he’s such a good part of the cast. At the same time contrasts the rest of the cast, and doesn’t drain focus from the other characters.
So, like, then people question why Mike is the best character in this comics.
I mean, after Dina.
I just… have such a hard time seeing Mike as anything but cartoonish here. Like, yeah, his attitude is disturbingly realistic, but his PLAN is to… seduce Ethan??? Really??? HOW?????????
Like… Ethan knows him, knows him well, and doesn’t appear even remotely attracted to him. Ethan would know what he’s trying to pull – or at least that he’s trying to pull SOMETHING…
He’s a lying liar who lies, though. That ‘technical interpretation’ doesn’t remotely work as fulfilling your promise. If anything, sleeping with Danny to hurt Ethan would have been closer to the spirit of it – this plan is EXPLICITLY to reduce Danny to a mess.
Ugh.
well if i was in mikes shoes and planning to do some seducing in this setting my first step would be to wait for a while for ethan to calm down before making a move on a mild level while at an event that ethan enjoys but maybe doesn’t get to indulge in often if ever.
And in that setting as someone who has known ethan for so long i would have insight on his inner workings of what he hides vs doesn’t and using that make a move during something he has to hide enjoying while reassuring him lightly that “I don’t give a fuck if you like it”
but thats just my analysis.
Walkyverse Mike is somebody’s father.
Walkyverse Mike is somebody’s father.
Walkyverse Mike is somebody’s father!
WALKYVERSE. MIKE. IS. SOMEBODY’S. FATHER!!!
–This is what runs through my brain after reading that last panel.
Dumbiverse’s Blaine and Ross are somebody’s fathers, too, and there’s no comparison between Mike’s doings and theirs. Parenthood most certainly doesn’t preclude shittyness.
And that’s not the weirdest thing! In the Walkyverse, Leslie Bean is the father of her children…
<3 Mike
See, now that we know his plan, it won’t work.
I can’t stand people like Mike. I hope someone beats him up.
What? People who use their superior minds and evil disposition to be an agent for positive change… at the expense of people’s fleeting feelings?
An agent of positive change? I don’t think you really get Mike.
Mike is going to go too far. It’s like watching a fire. Who can resist watching?
I feel that people far too easily forget these words of wisdom:
Mike is just an asshole.
I like Mike more every time I see him. XD
Mike, Mike, Mike, you disappoint me. Sexcapades are so uncreative, so… unsubtle. You have the material in your hands to create a cenote of of angst that could potentially encompass not only Ethan and Danny, but also Dorothy, Walky by extension, and finish off Amber.
Not to mention, you’re just retreading old ground from Shortpacked.
So you’re saying he’s doing what you don’t want him to?
The Twist: Ethan knew that’s what Mike was thinking, and this is all Ethan’s plan to seduce Mike!
I’ve just been wondering if Mike could be another Ryan -reminder that sometimes the rapist/abuser’s someone you call friend and trust (kinda) and know.
If that’s supposed to be the Scout Salute, Mike has it wrong. (Google is my friend.)
You know, you don’t need to give Amber a tragic backstory. All you need to do is say that Mike made it seem like a good idea at the time and now Amazigirl is just in too deep to stop.
I am so ready for Mike to seduce Ethan. 😀
That is NOT the salute you make with the phrase “Scout’s Honor”.
Was Mike ever really a Scout? I’m thinking…. not.