Can confirm…personal bias would suggest that I prefer Navy dress whites (yes, I still have mine), but there’s nothing that really compares to Marine dress blues.
Perhaps this is pedantic, but that is not actually the alt-text. The alt-text is the text that shows if an image fails to load. The text that is set to appear when you hover the cursor over the image is called the image title.
In this case it’s both. Not long ago something about the site didn’t play well with my connection, and I’d often have to kill the load before the page stopped responding. I saw the alt text first a lot.
…There’s alt-text?! I just, literally this moment, finished re-reading the entire comic for the second time and NOW you’re telling me there’s alt-text?? Ah, geez. That took like three days.
And I’m honestly not entirely sure what that means? You might not get to see one of the other people in a small town? Does Joyce even live in a small town?
Yep. In close knit religious communities like that, people notice when you don’t go. I also imagine it might be a weird competition to see who’s the most devoted in Joyce’s parents social circle.
That’s a little unfair to religious folks. I was raised pretty religious, and it’s not like that at all. Despite their somewhat twisted views, Christians really do like seeing each other, and church is often a very good way for them to do that.
Ah, sorry ! I was speculating in context of Joyce’s community. I stupidly worded it as a general statement. What you said and experienced is very valid and true.
Though I suspect there is a bit of that in the less tolerant communities. I was reading an article about Shakespeare: a couple of members of his family were accused of being secret Catholics because they skipped communion or didn’t attend church often enough. (This being in a period where the Catholic church was supressed in England.)
That’s the problem with a state religion. At that point, not attending meant you were in disagreement with the king about his authority and legitimacy = treason. get fined, get jailed. Those concerns show up in Shakespeare’s plays. Lying to authority and usurpers of kingdoms.
When I was younger there were a lot of people I only ever saw at the mosque so going was an opportunity to see them, which means that if I didn’t catch them it would be a week before I go to see them again. I can understand how that would be frustrating for her when she wanted to see a specific person.
She wanted to see Tristan at church. Not going to both sessions meant there was a chance that she wouldn’t see him, so she got into the habit of going to both.
Maybe Tristan is in some Saturday sport. On days when he has a game, he gets home late, sleeps in on Sunday, goes to the later service. On days when he doesn’t, he gets up early on Sunday and goes to the morning service. (He might even sometimes have games on Sunday if he’s not excessively strict – so maybe on those days he goes to the earlier service.)
“Does Joyce even live in a small town?”
Joyce`s hometown is La Porte, Indiana, population slightly above 22,000 people.
(funny, see also Sunny’s comment).
So it is a small town, but big enough that events for socializing become important.
My personal point of comparison is pretty different. A place when I regulary go on holidays,n where my grand parents used to live, it’s…
Well, the biggest “city” in the area is 500 inhabitants. Of course, people would meet outside the pre- and post-church conversation too, but that event is important to them.
I was the Tristan to a boy a couple years younger than me in youth group when I was like 16, it was adorable and he had no chance whatsoever because I was a budding agnostic.
My late brother and his family attended church in the morning and afternoon services every Sunday.
I never understood why. Even Jesus must think you’re overdoing it. But Joyce’s comment makes sense, since it was a fairly large social thing to all of them.
Well, one thing you have to consider is the role that religion plays in some people’s lives. For most (practicing religious) people in the 21st century, religion is sort of like a chore. You have to give what’s due; in a sense, you’re making a holy sacrifice of your time.
But for some people, religion plays a totally different role in their lives. Marx famously described religion as the opiate of the masses, but I think if he lived nowadays, he might have called it the internet of the masses. For some, religious practice is the best way to pass the time. A church service is like seeing a good movie, and you don’t have anything else to do on Sunday, so why not see it twice?
Clearly the case with Joyce (well, Joyce pre-callamities). The few comics we’ve seen of her in church clearly show her digging it. If she enjoys it that much, it would make sense she’d go back for seconds.
Pretty much my whole family on my mom’s side are preacher’s kids. Salvation Army, no less. When we visit our grandparents, we’re there for EVERY service. Bc it looks bad if the family of the preacher or officers aren’t there for every service. Casts some doubts on the faith of the family in general, and, by extension, the preacher.
I basically always slept through the first service. BUT….they had donuts before every service, so I got donuts and hot tea THREE TIMES. And then lunch. So there’s that.
I’m a preacher’s kid. I was expected (required) to attend Sunday School and church services, but only one service, not both. I also sang in the children’s choir, which I enjoyed except for the fact that rehearsal was on Saturday morning, which ate up a lot of the weekend.
About now I’m really glad I wasn’t born in the USA, church was way more relaxed where I grew up. The one my family and I went to has only one service on sundays, usually it took about an hour or occasionally a little more, and after that there was cake and coffee (lemonade for the children, though a lot of us also had a little coffee at least). That was actually pretty fun at times, but my dad was the organist, so if there’d been several services and we would have had to attend them all… I think I would’ve been sick of it by the age of 8 or 10 already.
In total there must’ve been about 6 different churches for various christian denominations in a town of a little over 20k people, though. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that’s something most Americans can relate to.
Outside the mentioned boy stalking, probably so she could be with friends (Becky) ? Seems like she would’ve been forced into both services if her dad is any indicator.
Or Isolte of the White Hands, she’ll be pissed if she thinks you mistook one Isolde for another when she’s the one who married him. (Something something color of sails out of jealousy something something everyone dies.)
Yeah, not to mention that talking about boys and churches was a major part of her intimate friendship time with Joyce back before Becky realized what her “friend” feelings for Joyce actually were. Cause I mean, that’s what you’re “supposed” to do, right?
Also reminds me of when I was a boy collecting baseball cards. I came upon a Checklist for a team and there was a Latino playerd named Jesus and I had no idea it was pronounced Hey-soose.
It’s one of those really interesting cultural differences, how you’d give someone a weird look if they named their kid Jesus in an English speaking country, yet it’s common in Spanish speaking countries.
They’re both weird. As is virginal birth, the communion of saints, and the concept of the trinity. And I say this as a (albeit very liberal and quite possibly heretical) Catholic. Just because I believe it doesn’t make it any less weird. Then again, any real God would have to be weird because we couldn’t really understand it properly.
Joyce: OK, in my defense, Tristan reminds me a LOT of Jesus. His hair is a lot like Jesus’. His lips… VERY Jesus. His strong, manly chest… OH JESUSS!!
…
So, yeah, Tristan made me… think of Jesus. A LOT.
Jesus has that poster. You know the one. Luscious brown hair, deep, soulful eyes, and cuddling a lamb. I bet a lot of teen girls stare at that one and want to nail him.
Well, she can’t duck out on her parents like she did the morning before because she’ll want/need to go to church and they’ll be there, too (and she doesn’t have a car, so she may need to ride with them). It’s doubly important for her to go because she’s worried Hank may not be on her and Becky’s side much longer if he think Joyce is losing her way (like lying to him and her mom the day before).
She also won’t want to leave Becky alone, but while Becky still says she has faith, she may not feel comfortable going to a church that she knows isn’t LGBTQIA-friendly from experience (and, more specifically, a church that was probably mostly friendly with her dad). And there’s a good chance people at the church are going to treat Becky (and maybe Joyce) more like Carol has been treating her.
So basically she has to go, or it looks like Carol was right about Becky, but if she goes there’s likely to be a lot of hostility towards Becky that she can’t avoid and that may set her anger off (which will also make it look like Carol was right about Becky).
I doubt Becky fully groks the LGBTQIA concept yet. She’s working down the list. Just figured out that bisexuals are a thing and is working on transgender, though she doesn’t yet realize it.
Yeah, it’s been overshadowed a bit, but going to this church in particular is going to be 80 forms of special Hell for Becky. Not just because it’s homophobic, but also because this is the particular church that she attended with her dad and so haunted with those ghosts. Not to mention, it’s the particular flavor of church that convinced said dad that hunting her like an animal in order to “fix her” was a stand-up awesome thing to do.
And it represents the exact qualities of the town she wants nothing more to do with that she wants nothing more to do with, hateful, small-minded, racist. And she’s probably very aware that there’s going to be a metric butt-ton of holy roller types at the church who will be using her to perform the good Christian who shows their Christianity by passively-aggressively ministering at the ‘deluded’ lesbian that done got her daddy locked up for a bit of nonsense.
Basically, as much as Joyce is terrified of today, Becky’s probably doing an even more intense version of psyching herself up for this.
I still have an irrational belief that Youth Pastor Powers is going to be a breath of fresh air to Joyce and Becky and a source of horror to Joyce’s mom.
I’m not religious at all, but I like Joyce’s first response. The lifelong path to Christ. Although Bernie Mac wrote in his book, that he didn’t need/like to go to church because
A) there were really unholy folks that would go and then be unholy the rest of the week and he couldn’t stand the hypocrisy
B) Jesus is wherever he is, because he is in everyone, as long they keep Jesus in their hearts – which can mean any type of religious meditation, not necessarily church in his interpretation
I can also identify with waking up late as opposed to my early bird friends
YAY Joyce and Joe. Already I love their bickery new friendship. (Also, I note that Joyce texted with HELP and Joe is there to answer the call! He’s cranky because it’s the early AM and he was sleeping after being up late texting with her in the first place, but he’s there.)
RE: Alt text: So at what point will Willis run out of male names to give characters and start naming characters after lunch items from Taco Bell and stuff?
So, La Porte County is in the Central Time Zone, and Bloomington, is, I think, in the Eastern Time Zone. Which means that for Joyce it’s actually 6 AM. Understandably getting an early start on her panicking.
this is so adorable oh my god what the hell– joyce relying on joe. joe actually waking up for her. them knowing each other so well to have banter like this. shIT i was not expecting to ship this when i woke up this morning.
I wonder if Joyce might be one of the few people who knows how hard his parent’s divorce hit him. Like, maybe Danny knows, but Joe strikes me as the type of guy to perform a sort of “pfft, oh yeah, that’s happening, but whatever, it’s chill” performance about it in public.
So this is probably as much therapy and support for him as it is for her.
Last guy I knew named Tristan was from Cornwall. And he really liked Irish girls. When I pointed out the old Tristan and Iesult love story to him he got a little freaked out by the similarity to himself. It was funny.
Nope he hasn’t. Just checked in with him because it’s been a few months since we last spoke, and it turns out he recently started dating a woman named Isolde. I must now rib him mercilessly for next hour or so. I mean, this has to be at least an eight on the scale of coincidental similarity hilariousness.
I do my best to give blood at Catholic churches because they have the best after-phlebotomy snacks. One time I was there at the very end and ended up bringing home a whole loaf of home baked bread.
I like premarital hanky-panky. Joe’s established habit of sexually harassing women who have made it abundantly clear they want nothing to do with him would, were he real, safely exclude him from my premarital hanky-panky wishlist.
I’m hoping we’re turning over a new leaf on that front for him.
Sneaking up on someone and putting your hand around their waist is inappropriate in any situation. It’s a complete disrespect for personal space and also not very different from copping a feel. The fact that we have no past scenes that Sierra has any kind of friendship with Joe to indicate that she’d allow this behavior doesn’t help.
There’s also how, at least at the beginning of the comic, he expresses an opinion that chastity is apparently a fault that should be fixed by showing people how wonderful sex is; http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/penis/ Apart from how creepy the idea of ‘fixing’ people who don’t want to have sex is on its own, it’s also clearly motivated by his own desire to get laid, more than any benign wish to spread the joy of pre-marital hanky panky.
Basically, Joe is one of those people who we know believes in consent because it says so in the Cast page, but in the comic itself has shown many alarming signs that he might not have a very well defined understanding of where the line of consent is drawn.
So much this. We’ve seen the worst of Joe so far, so I’m really hoping we’re seeing Joe learning non-creeper ways of interacting with women and not being quite so scared to engage with emotional content or emotions in general. And maybe this also spells the end of his being “that guy” in the Gender Studies class and actually learning to let go of some of his toxic masculinity hangups that aren’t doing him any favors.
Plus, it’s really nice to have him on panel and not be muttering “shut up, Joe” at the screen.
I’ve been to church – it’s the most boring place I’ve ever been. It’s like school if they never moved on from the first grade curriculum, just trying to teach you the same thing year after year after year after year after year after year…
Worshipping is one thing; I don’t do it, but it’s something you’re doing proactively that you can adjust to your current situation and thus doesn’t have to be endless, mindless repetition. (And the parts that are mindless repetition tend to be short.) Church services, on the other hand, are unending drudgery that you’d have to crazy to want to subject yourself to more than the minimum allowable amount of. (Absent a Tristan or other outside factor to entertain you while you’re there, of course.)
Why would Joyce possibly need help seven in the morning, mr sleeps with the phone on his pillow?
Seriously, Joe is doing great. He is giving Joyce the outlet to talk without having to justify or live up to anything. He is just the stupid dudebro who asks stupid questions so she can describe the situation and what bothers her.
I wonder if mr NO FEELS have done this before (you can only spend so much time flirting with everyone around you until there is FEELS) or if this is new and scary ground for him as well.
If you sleep stably enough not to end up knocking it off your bed or rolling over it, that’s as good a place for it as any, particularly if you use it as an alarm.
i sleep with my phone on my pillow. (well, next to it.) partly for the alarm but also cause i cant fall asleep without my sleep playlist and it needs to be pretty close for me to hear it properly
Clearly I’ve missed something from before — when did Joyce and Joe become friendly enough to be texting to each other? I know some people called it, but up until the reveal, I had them as still mildly antagonistic towards each other.
Joe and Joyce have interacted before. She smacked him on a very weird set up date. I think. Joe has shown hints of being more than a walking sex machine. He deliberately keeps feelings hidden.
Joe doesn’t get involved with his women. Wam bam thank you mam!
Joyce doesn’t want to get involved with anyone who may be interested in her.
They are perfect for each other’s needs at this point.
Joe is a much nicer person that me. I think I’d reach thru the phone and choke her….7am. It should be illegal to have two 7s in one 24 hour period.
They’re probably actually using Snapchat or Kik or something and the phone screens are just generic texty screens in order to make the comic not go out of date.
This whole thing is shit. Why do we live in a country where people are afraid someone might just bust in and kill them for selfish, delusional reasons. It happens at work, it happens at school, it happens in the home. I wonder if people aren’t just collectively losing their minds since the beginning of the new century.
Perpetual self righteous victimhood, a narcissistic need for everyone to think exactly as you (general you), and the need to keep the privileged status quo is poisoning this country.
I don’t know. I’m rambling, I can’t think about this anymore tonight.
This is the one about a week after Toedad got arrested. Half the church has to be gossiping and wondering about it. The pastor/minister/whatever’s going to have to address it, and the causes of it…
…. oh, look, a lesbian to blame.
…. oh, look, a lesbian IN THE PEWS to blame.
… oh, look, Joyce hasn’t enrolled in anger-management courses yet.
I don’t know; some things that Willis has posted over the years imply that things may not be so black and white. Similarly, there may be many in the congregation who share Bank’s view of Ross.
My old church is a 16th century beast with walls of limewashed stone almost two meter thick that survived God knows how many uprisings and at least two Danish-Swedish wars.
I would give it fifty/fifty to be architecturally sound after Joyce was done with it, if they had that sermon there. It will take direct action from Hank, Becky or the Pastor to prevent her from hulking out completely.
Tristan has been having a series of seperate but extremly similar adventures with all of the characters genders switched. He becomes friends with an atheist named Theodore, who broke up with a girl named Diana. He’s constantly annoyed by a girl named Runny. Also he recently found out that his best friend Bobby is gay. Bobby’s homophobic mother tried to attack them with a gun, but was stopped by Hal and Stupendi-Boy.
He also had a brief relationship with Ellie until she confessed she was gay too. She and Diana seem to be becoming good friends, so yay for gal pals! Now, he’s texting a girl he dated once, Johanna, but he’s aiming for mutual support rather than a straight up relationship, as she didn’t seem too keen of those, and this girl, Michelle, who chaperoned their first date made things kind of awkward between them alll for a while.
Lately Marv had found out about the secret relationship between Bill and Ralph, and has attempted to blackmail them. He also called transgender man Carl the wrong gender.
I accompanied no less than three different girls to various church services and events during my middle school years, despite being raised totally without religion. For a while I was absolutely convinced that I wanted to be Christian, and I just needed these wonderful, friendly, virtuous girls to show me the way to God. Yet somehow I could never seem to get into it, and I eventually gave up for vague agnosticism instead.
That period of time was always weird to me in retrospect. But as I was reading this strip, just now, more than a decade later, I’ve suddenly realized that I was actually totally gay, and had massive crushes on all of those girls.
i mean at least from my experience at least half of the people joyce knows should have biblical names. its just not realistic if you dont have to ask ‘which john?’ every time someone wants to tell you who they saw at the walmart yesterday
I don’t know in the USA, but here in Chile you get into the habit of calling Juans (and sometimes Josés) by their middle name too. Like, those three hypothetical guys aren’t Juan, Juan, and Juan: they’re Juan Pablo, Juan Francisco, and Juan Ignacio.
usually you go by last name. or whoever you talked to last. this system occasionally gets confusing but you don’t tend to get people with the same last and first names
I’m really happy to be seeing moments of Joe where he’s not on game and he’s just doing right by people. I think it’s a good direction for him overall and it’s nice to see him be supportive and helpful to someone given most of his “advice” before this has not shown him at his best.
Also, dear Bob, two church services in a row? Joyce is going to be utterly destroyed at the end of this as I don’t see how they’re not going to be either excusing Toedad’s actions or condemning teh evil queers and very likely both.
On the other hand, it’s usually the same sermon in both, so maybe knowing about the early one would prepare her for the latter one. That way she has time to put trying to control her anger into action.
You know… I seem to remember Willis mentioning that his father had stopped going to the family’s old church because the pastor wasn’t morally perfect enough for him. I wonder if we’re making assumption about the Browns’ pastor that might not be quite as reactionary as Carol and Ross’s behaviour implies. Will the sermon instead be a condemnation of violence and a plea to leave judgement and punishment to God?
Morally perfect enough in this case, though? Means CAROL’S standards, there’s mentions they switched congregations like that because of it before in the comic itself and Hank accepting Becky and by extension potentially other people among The Gays is new.
I love that Joe and Joyce have gotten to know each other well enough for him to say what he did. I totally would have actually believed Joyce–that she really had been raised to think she had to go to both services. Every sign of her before shows her to take her Christianity to an extreme.
It’s also nice for Joyce, actually admitting that she was hiding her true reasons–because those reasons would be “wrong.” She’s still putting on the “perfect little Christian girl” front. Joe called her on it, and she admitted it.
That’s a good catch, and really promising for Joe’s and Jocye’s friendship – and Jocey’s overall mental health – that she can move away from the perfect girl persona.
Yeah, that’s a really nice part of their interaction. Especially since breaking away from that performative “morality” is what’s going to be most important for her mental health when she gets back to college.
i used to go to a church that expected its teaching staff at the school attached to go to the sunday morning service, the sunday night service, and the wednesday night service.
on the one hand, you got breaks. on the other, that was so much. fortunately my dad had some common sense and did not enforce this expectation.
One more thing: so Joyce’s church is fairly large–large enough to have two morning services. That isn’t usually done unless you have a fairly large group.
For some reason, I’d always pictured Joyce’s home church as one of those smaller affairs.
I always kind of assumed that Joyce’s religious group was a fairly large part of whatever town she grew up in. Otherwise it wouldn’t make sense to me that she made it all the way to college without having her view challenged a bit more. Unless she grew up on a farm or somesuch that kind of sheltering would require at least a mid-sized buffer of likeminded people.
… But then again, I have zero experience with religious fundamentalists.
Joyce knows that Joe has gone through similar pain with his parents, and he’s divorced enough from Joyce’s regular circle of friends that she doesn’t have to worry about feeling like a burden by talking about problems they have no experience with.
This. Plus she’s been battling a lot of hateful religious ideology this weekend that has blamed her and Becky repeatedly for nearly getting shot and has otherwise been cruel and mean to a friend she feels intensely protective of. So the prospective of being surrounded by that cranked up to 11 would be a daunting one for anyone.
Not to mention that her mom has been very holy roller of late and church and the post-church brunch has a tendency of… amplifying that.
CAROL: “Joyce, who are you texting at this time of the morning?”
JOYCE: “He’s a guy I know at College, Mom. He’s a bit overbearing at times but he’s got a good heart and he’s smart when he lets himself be; I’ve found he’s good to talk to when I need a listening ear.”
CAROL: “Oh?” ((Starts smiling and thinking of Joyce’s MRS degree)) “And when am I going to meet this fine young man with whom you’ve been confiding?”
JOYCE: “You already have! He’s the big Jewish boy with the ‘come hither’ smile!”
CAROL runs out screaming.
BECKY: “You, girl, are evil. And I love you for it.”
I…
I had a bit of a thing for a Tristan as a kid. This suddenly feels very weird.
(He was very intelligent, well-dressed, and if memory serves Mormon, whereas I came from a fiercely atheist family. The first bit was why I liked him, I think.)
Last I remember (before the strip a few days ago) Joyce and Joe were still enemies. Did I miss something, or is this in fact supposed to be a surprise.
A little from column A, a little from column B. It’s a plot development you kind of have to approach by looking at it from the end and going backwards.
Joe and Joyce bonded a little over their shared struggles with their parents and it was the first time Joyce connected to him on any real leve. What we don’t know is why she trusts him over Dorothy and Sarah.
Joe, I think, sees that Joyce has a problem, is open about her feelings, and is simple and direct about what she expects from him, so Joe finds it easier to help rather than how he has difficulty with Danny, because Danny is confused and scared about his problems with Amber and his sexuality and can’t directly talk about them, and in Joe’s world, that means he can’t be assed to put any effort into things for him.
Pretty much, yeah. Danny doesn’t have problems that can be easily and definitively solved, so he tries to talk about his feelings instead. We’ve seen that work when he’s talked to Ethan, Dorothy, Amber and Sal, but Joe sees Danny talk about his feelings and offers solutions, because that’s how Joe processes his problems. If Danny’s sad that his girlfriend is mentally unwell, then Danny should stop dating her and dating for romance in general, because Joe’s seen Danny crash and burn when he puts so much emphasis on romance. If Danny’s trying to field questions about his sexuality because he legitimately cannot grasp that he has an attraction to men and wants to know if you can still be heterosexual and also be attracted to a guy, Joe demands that Danny tell him whether or not he’s gay because the important thing is finding the solution rather than focusing on the dreaded feelings.
So unlike Danny, Joyce is giving Joe a clear, defined problem to solve. She’s venting about her problems to him and that, plus Joe’s experiences with his parents, makes it easier for Joe to provide solutions to her, which is what Joyce is actually looking for.
Interesting thing. I’m training to be a counsellor, and one thing that my tutor put a fair amount of emphasis on is that men tend to try to “fix” things. And from looking at my classmates, I can definitely see it.
For the record, I have no idea why. I don’t know if it’s a socially ingrained thing, that men “should” be fixers, as I didn’t grow up male but fell into the same “fixing” pitfalls early on as my cis male classmates.
Anyway, just thought I’d share as you commented on Joe being interested in fixing over feelings. That, apparently, is a common thing for the menfolk.
It seems to be, yeah. My dad sold me that line for years and it’s pretty apparent whenever I talk to him about stuff. It can be really helpful when it’s needed, but it can be really frustrating when you just want to vent about stuff for a bit.
Both are good. It’s bad to vent all the time and not solve anything, but it’s also bad to totally forgo any kind of emotional reaction and instead treat it like a puzzle that needs to be solved as quickly and methodically as possible.
Interesting parallel I just noticed. Both are linked by how thirsty they are as well as how unhealthily they approach that.
Joyce by her repression and her trained belief that lusting after dudes is what will either send her to Hell or will be broadcast to everyone she ever knew when she goes to Heaven (and of course she’ll be the only one revealed to have man-lust, because her church is one where all the women are performing how “pure” they are as demonstrated by their lack of lust [offer does not extend to actual asexual women in the church]).
Joe by the way he drifts into PUA territory with his online “bang list” with number ratings and the way he ignores body language and pursues and innuendos at girls who have given him every signal that they are not interested as well as the way he avoids emotions and views emotional romantic connections as somehow a waste. Not to mention the weird fetishy way he treats women-loving-women relationships.
[Important disclaimer: I’m not saying that it’s a bad thing for Joe to be thirsty as fuck and prioritize sex for its own sake. Those are wonderful and fine qualities. It’s more the methods by which he pursues that which have been shown on panel to be less than savory, honest, and respecting of consent. Nor am I saying it is a slight against him that he’s not a particularly big fan of romantic relationships or that he should be in one. Rather that the judgmental way he treats others who value them [Danny] is a problem. It is possible to be horny and smutty and value sexual connections as a key part of your life without being predatory and boundary-pushing about it. Being a creeper is not actually a key part of male hetero sexuality. (Also, the fact that he’s growing and showing his better qualities is awesome. Shedding or rejecting the more toxic aspects of masculinity is a critical part of becoming the type of man women don’t warn each other about.)]
And both are inadvertently helping each other on these aspects as they interact about this separate subject. Joe, by prompting (in a non-creeper “sooo, everyone lusts eyyy?” way) Joyce to admit that her attraction to guys played a large part in her religious decisions. Joyce, by simply creating a space where Joe feels comfortable accessing some of his more painful memories of his parent’s divorce and processing them and building the ability to have emotional friendship connections with girls who are not on his bang list.
I dunno if this will eventually turn romantic in a healthy way, but I’m loving the hell of how this friendship is shaping up and it’s potential to be very healing for the individuals involved and may allow both to express their sexual desires more freely and openly in a boundary and sexual diversity respecting manner.
I just don’t see boy-stalking as being a priority for Joyce under the current circumstances. (Especially since this boy from back home never merited a mention before now.) I would think she would be all set on getting this home visit over with and back to the relative calm of IU as quickly as possible. She can’t be so clueless as to not realize that the service is going to be rough on Becky, so the idea of Joyce wanting to stay for both services just sounds wrong.
On the other hand…staying for both services may be her family’s thing, and she can’t be seen as losing interest in church. I suppose not trying to see Tristan would be a red flag to her mother as well (“Becky is turning you into a lesbian!”), except that having (so far as mom knows) a boyfriend back at college is a legitimate excuse there.
I am so guilty of the Tristan thing. Those Christian Tristans are killer, man, I’m telling you. Seriously. Had a crush on one for 3 years. Still kinda do.
Loading ...
Joe looks hot
Easiest path to getting laid alot: Be hot.
Am ugly, can confirm.
I’ve heard having an excessive amount of money also helps but I can’t confirm that
Correction: _spending_ excessive amounts of money helps. Doesn’t actually matter how much you have, as long as you’re throwing enough around.
Have you heard about the new fashion, honey?
All it takes is looks and a whole lot of money!
Still rock ‘n’ roll to me!
Top scientists once suggested that it must be funny in a rich man’s world.
If you’re not in a position to use money or looks to get laid: use SCIENCE!
Uniforms help too. But only if you have the right one
Can confirm…personal bias would suggest that I prefer Navy dress whites (yes, I still have mine), but there’s nothing that really compares to Marine dress blues.
Hot and easy*.
*Offer may not be compatible with other lifestyle choices.
Am ugly, can also confirm.
There’s a lot of be said for self-acceptance and building confidence, though. Was ugly, gained the confidence to pass as hot, can can confirm.
Yay!!! Anyway, being hot really is simply to be able to present yourself at your advantage, no matter what you start off with.
Yes! This! This is true, oh, so true. Can confirm, with ring to prove it.
I’m glad I’m not the only that’s noticed
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I agree, bed head Joe is nice
That’s not the only bed head Joe’s got.
We should file a complaint that he’s uncharacteristicly clothed to be in bed.
We haven’t seen pants yet.
Joe sleeps shirtless, this is well established
Maybe he sleeps shirtless in the beginning of the fall, when it’s still warm, but as the eather gets chilly, he wears a t-shirt?
He wears less than Sal does in bed (no gloves).
He’s even more nude than Mickey Mouse.
Given the bags under his eyes…
Who says Joe slept?
I’d TAPTAPTAPPITYTAP that.
I have NO idea what autocorrect would do to your “tappity” session, but I’m sure it would be simultaneously horrific and hilarious.
I cringed.
yo Joe
does Joe have that permanent stubble that’s exactly sandpaper-made-of-needles length
that’s when my bf likes to shave, just as it’s long enough to start to feel nice instead of stabby
Yes, he does. I think The Author stated that at some point.
yes, Willis stated in one of his (messages you see when sliding the mouse over the strip) that he’d decided to make Joe permanently stubbly
Alt-text. The term you’re looking for is alt-text.
and the phrase your waiting for is thank you, in 3…2…1 thank you.
Perhaps this is pedantic, but that is not actually the alt-text. The alt-text is the text that shows if an image fails to load. The text that is set to appear when you hover the cursor over the image is called the image title.
I’ve always seen it called hovertext, which seems both less precise and more accurate: most people don’t use it as an image title anymore.
In this case it’s both. Not long ago something about the site didn’t play well with my connection, and I’d often have to kill the load before the page stopped responding. I saw the alt text first a lot.
The CMS uses the same string for both values.
Which means: Both terms are right!
Check the HTML and you’ll see: The same text appears in a title- and in an alt-attribute.
Use the source, Luke!
I knew guys like that in the Navy. They’d shave first thing in the morning and have stubble before breakfast was over.
Men in my family have to shave twice a day to stay smooth.
…There’s alt-text?! I just, literally this moment, finished re-reading the entire comic for the second time and NOW you’re telling me there’s alt-text?? Ah, geez. That took like three days.
The early alt-texts are just the strip titles, so you don’t have to reread them all. The meaningful ones started on [mumble].
This helps. Thank you.
no I mean is it the *nice* length or the *STABBY* length
Why would you go to BOTH serves. Why would you do that to yourself ?
Because the word of the lord is inconsistent so you need to hear it twice?
Because you might miss someone.
And I’m honestly not entirely sure what that means? You might not get to see one of the other people in a small town? Does Joyce even live in a small town?
Church is a big socialisation mean.
Yep. In close knit religious communities like that, people notice when you don’t go. I also imagine it might be a weird competition to see who’s the most devoted in Joyce’s parents social circle.
That’s a little unfair to religious folks. I was raised pretty religious, and it’s not like that at all. Despite their somewhat twisted views, Christians really do like seeing each other, and church is often a very good way for them to do that.
Ah, sorry ! I was speculating in context of Joyce’s community. I stupidly worded it as a general statement. What you said and experienced is very valid and true.
Also Triston.
Though I suspect there is a bit of that in the less tolerant communities. I was reading an article about Shakespeare: a couple of members of his family were accused of being secret Catholics because they skipped communion or didn’t attend church often enough. (This being in a period where the Catholic church was supressed in England.)
That’s the problem with a state religion. At that point, not attending meant you were in disagreement with the king about his authority and legitimacy = treason. get fined, get jailed. Those concerns show up in Shakespeare’s plays. Lying to authority and usurpers of kingdoms.
If you aren’t visibly attending both services, your neighbours might think that your faith is wavering.
When I was younger there were a lot of people I only ever saw at the mosque so going was an opportunity to see them, which means that if I didn’t catch them it would be a week before I go to see them again. I can understand how that would be frustrating for her when she wanted to see a specific person.
She wanted to see Tristan at church. Not going to both sessions meant there was a chance that she wouldn’t see him, so she got into the habit of going to both.
diiiing
We got a winner!
It’s kinda weird that Tristan would randomly go to one or the other, tho ^^;
Maybe Tristan is in some Saturday sport. On days when he has a game, he gets home late, sleeps in on Sunday, goes to the later service. On days when he doesn’t, he gets up early on Sunday and goes to the morning service. (He might even sometimes have games on Sunday if he’s not excessively strict – so maybe on those days he goes to the earlier service.)
“Does Joyce even live in a small town?”
Joyce`s hometown is La Porte, Indiana, population slightly above 22,000 people.
(funny, see also Sunny’s comment).
So it is a small town, but big enough that events for socializing become important.
22k people. A small town.
My personal point of comparison is pretty different. A place when I regulary go on holidays,n where my grand parents used to live, it’s…
Well, the biggest “city” in the area is 500 inhabitants. Of course, people would meet outside the pre- and post-church conversation too, but that event is important to them.
The one church service would rassemble people from all the surrounding hamlets, as well.
Coming from NYC, the idea of anybody living in a community of under 50,000 is shocking to me. To me, even that’s pretty darn small!
Trust but verify.
because boys, apparently.
(as someone who had a lot of tristans growing up, it makes perfect sense to me)
I was the Tristan to a boy a couple years younger than me in youth group when I was like 16, it was adorable and he had no chance whatsoever because I was a budding agnostic.
why do I find myself wanting to see a tidbit where Mary drags roz to church.
I’d rather see Roz drag Mary to church.
My late brother and his family attended church in the morning and afternoon services every Sunday.
I never understood why. Even Jesus must think you’re overdoing it. But Joyce’s comment makes sense, since it was a fairly large social thing to all of them.
Well, one thing you have to consider is the role that religion plays in some people’s lives. For most (practicing religious) people in the 21st century, religion is sort of like a chore. You have to give what’s due; in a sense, you’re making a holy sacrifice of your time.
But for some people, religion plays a totally different role in their lives. Marx famously described religion as the opiate of the masses, but I think if he lived nowadays, he might have called it the internet of the masses. For some, religious practice is the best way to pass the time. A church service is like seeing a good movie, and you don’t have anything else to do on Sunday, so why not see it twice?
Clearly the case with Joyce (well, Joyce pre-callamities). The few comics we’ve seen of her in church clearly show her digging it. If she enjoys it that much, it would make sense she’d go back for seconds.
Pretty much my whole family on my mom’s side are preacher’s kids. Salvation Army, no less. When we visit our grandparents, we’re there for EVERY service. Bc it looks bad if the family of the preacher or officers aren’t there for every service. Casts some doubts on the faith of the family in general, and, by extension, the preacher.
I basically always slept through the first service. BUT….they had donuts before every service, so I got donuts and hot tea THREE TIMES. And then lunch. So there’s that.
I’m a preacher’s kid. I was expected (required) to attend Sunday School and church services, but only one service, not both. I also sang in the children’s choir, which I enjoyed except for the fact that rehearsal was on Saturday morning, which ate up a lot of the weekend.
About now I’m really glad I wasn’t born in the USA, church was way more relaxed where I grew up. The one my family and I went to has only one service on sundays, usually it took about an hour or occasionally a little more, and after that there was cake and coffee (lemonade for the children, though a lot of us also had a little coffee at least). That was actually pretty fun at times, but my dad was the organist, so if there’d been several services and we would have had to attend them all… I think I would’ve been sick of it by the age of 8 or 10 already.
In total there must’ve been about 6 different churches for various christian denominations in a town of a little over 20k people, though. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that’s something most Americans can relate to.
It is. And lots would relate to your church experience too. (Not me, raised without church at all).
It depends a lot on the region of the country and on the specific church involved.
Outside the mentioned boy stalking, probably so she could be with friends (Becky) ? Seems like she would’ve been forced into both services if her dad is any indicator.
Joyce and Joe are the new BFFs of this comic.
Who is Tristan?
Someone from her group back when she was a kid, I assume
That’s SIR Tristan to you. He’s taken, though; by La Belle Isuelt.
I prefer the Isolde spelling :-p (Tristan is my middle name, so I guess it’s me?)
But don’t let Mark of Cornwall hear!
I want it on record that I already found the last panel a little weird but this is just really something.
Or Isolte of the White Hands, she’ll be pissed if she thinks you mistook one Isolde for another when she’s the one who married him. (Something something color of sails out of jealousy something something everyone dies.)
MEDIEVAL LITERATURE NERDS UNITE
I was actually thinking of Tristan from Camelot 3000.
Iseult*
A dude Joyce stalked in her youth apparently.
Tristan Taylor. Yeah, Dumbiverse takes place in the Yu-Gi-Oh universe. We’re not sure if it’s the abridged one or not.
But does his voice give him super strength? Inquiring minds want to know.
No.
The word of the Church does.
😀
He knows when the Sun will rise.
So long as he has a Barney voice I’m happy.
……
… wait which Barney?
The purple dinosaur. It’s kinda the voice Tristan has YGOTAS.
I was thinking Simpsons Barney.
First voice I thought of was Don Knotts.
I was thinking of Fred Flintstone’s neighbour.
my brain thought of himym Barney
…Also the first Tristan that popped into my head.
Yeah, I was confused too, ’cause I don’t think Joyce’s parents let her watch that.
Jesus’ hot cousin.
Someone Becky got completely sick hearing about as a kid.
No way. That’s tease-Joyce ammunition there.
Ooooooooh!
Yeah, not to mention that talking about boys and churches was a major part of her intimate friendship time with Joyce back before Becky realized what her “friend” feelings for Joyce actually were. Cause I mean, that’s what you’re “supposed” to do, right?
*plays The Doobie Brothers’ “Jesus Is Just All Right” on the hacked Muzak*
Also reminds me of when I was a boy collecting baseball cards. I came upon a Checklist for a team and there was a Latino playerd named Jesus and I had no idea it was pronounced Hey-soose.
you english people pronounce His name all wrong either way
It’s one of those really interesting cultural differences, how you’d give someone a weird look if they named their kid Jesus in an English speaking country, yet it’s common in Spanish speaking countries.
It’s a fine name for a Rottweiler, though.
The English equivalent of “Jesus” is “Joshua”, which is a perfectly normal name. Really, the weird part is that we don’t call Christ that.
….
…. wait, THAT’S the weird part? I thought transubstantiation was the weird part.
They’re both weird. As is virginal birth, the communion of saints, and the concept of the trinity. And I say this as a (albeit very liberal and quite possibly heretical) Catholic. Just because I believe it doesn’t make it any less weird. Then again, any real God would have to be weird because we couldn’t really understand it properly.
Oh, good. Then I’m NOT the only one…
I think the fact that it is all ‘weird’ is the reason Catholics think Jesus was special, right?
I’ve run across references to “Joshua ben Yusef” a couple of times… as a wry joke from Jewish writers, I think.
Essentially Jesus the Servant as distinguished Johua ben David, as in King David, to represent the second coming.
I think you’re only allowed to do that if your name is Levon.
There’s a lot of Chris/Christian/Christine, on the other hand
Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
HELP! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWP6Qki8mWc
jesus thinks you should just be friends
Jesus loves you, but he’s not IN love with you.
Jesus just needs some time apart.
… so, we need to be leaving room for Jesus … to escape?
Jesus doesn’t want to date. He just wants to hang out.
Maybe he’s just embarrassed by his three day refractory period?
Nah, he just likes to hang out with his bros, the apostles.
It’s not you, it’s Jesus.
All I could think of.
Eh…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J54s1FSwLU
Don’t lynch me – one of my favorite Genesis videos… 😀
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja0Hs7Ryth0
I love the range of expressions Joe makes here without even opening his mouth.
Truly, the eyebrows are the window to the soul.
Never before have I seen a hairier window.
What if somebody doesn’t have eyebrows? ….Or a unibrow?
Forehead wrinkles
No eyebrows, no soul.
Is this the first time we’re hearing of the attempted tryst with Tristan?
I friend-ship it.
🙂 yes exactly
Honestly this was such a surprising turn of events but I’m so glad Joyce has someone to reach out to.
Why is this making me aww a little. I like seeing Joyce not resent Joe like she used to.
It’s just not Joyce unless she’s stalking a boy she’s crushing on at some point in her development.
Joyce: OK, in my defense, Tristan reminds me a LOT of Jesus. His hair is a lot like Jesus’. His lips… VERY Jesus. His strong, manly chest… OH JESUSS!!
…
So, yeah, Tristan made me… think of Jesus. A LOT.
*SP Historical Jesus appears*
Actually, I looked nothing like that.
C’mon, what were they *originally* texting about, before… Warcraft’s poor domestic performance? Whatever, we’re on to to you now.
The boy Joyce was stalking was actually named “Jesús.”
YOU BEAT ME TO IT! DAMMIT!
lol.
I have a feeling Joyce’s mother would not approve.
Usually a safe bet.
The fact that she says Jesus’s name in the present but Tristan’s in the past scares me. Did something happen to this guy?
He probably got married or some crap.
Maybe his family switched churches, or Joyce’s family switched churches.
Maybe? We know that her family switched churches!
Many times.
Maybe she just stopped having a crush on him.
Fundie kneejerk reaction? They should always want to see Jesus.
…Yeah the hole “I’m stalking jesus” line probably sounded bester in her head.
eveything sounds as good outload as it did in her head… to her
On the plus side, this is the closest she has ever gotten to joking about her faith in this comic.
Better than “I’m staking Jesus”, I suppose.
Watch your step kid or someone’ll be gettin’ cross with you!
Jesus has that poster. You know the one. Luscious brown hair, deep, soulful eyes, and cuddling a lamb. I bet a lot of teen girls stare at that one and want to nail him.
… so you’re saying Jesus was into being pegged?
Vampire Jesus gave His blood for you, and now He wants it back…
Zombie Jesus wants to eat your braaaaains.
He’s quite good at that.
Like a vampire, or like gambling?
But what does she need his help with?
Somehow putting as much physical distance between her mom and Becky while still sitting in the same pew.
Wait are she and Joe in the same town? How didn’t I catch that? And if so wouldn’t that mean Danny and Dorothy would be there too?
Also she’s asking a Jew to attend church.
They’re not in the same town. I assume she just wants emotional/moral support in order to brace for whatever shitstorm that might happen at church.
Joe is someone you call for IMmoral support.
I think she probably needs emotional support rather than asking him to drive to what I presume is the middle of nowhere in less than an hour
Well, if he were at home (he seems to be in his dorm room), Mishawaka is 45 minutes drive from La Porte. But yeah, I read it as emotional support.
He’s in Bloomington and she’s in La Porte. So not exactly same town.
“Also she’s asking a Jew to attend church.”
She already did that in the past. Successfully!
Just sit in two opposite parts of the church away from each other it’s not rocket science.
Convincing Mom to allow that, though….
….
…… wait, CAN it be rocket science? I mean I know we don’t NEED rockets to accomplish it, but that doesn’t rule them out, does it?
Straight to the moon?
Well, she can’t duck out on her parents like she did the morning before because she’ll want/need to go to church and they’ll be there, too (and she doesn’t have a car, so she may need to ride with them). It’s doubly important for her to go because she’s worried Hank may not be on her and Becky’s side much longer if he think Joyce is losing her way (like lying to him and her mom the day before).
She also won’t want to leave Becky alone, but while Becky still says she has faith, she may not feel comfortable going to a church that she knows isn’t LGBTQIA-friendly from experience (and, more specifically, a church that was probably mostly friendly with her dad). And there’s a good chance people at the church are going to treat Becky (and maybe Joyce) more like Carol has been treating her.
So basically she has to go, or it looks like Carol was right about Becky, but if she goes there’s likely to be a lot of hostility towards Becky that she can’t avoid and that may set her anger off (which will also make it look like Carol was right about Becky).
I doubt Becky fully groks the LGBTQIA concept yet. She’s working down the list. Just figured out that bisexuals are a thing and is working on transgender, though she doesn’t yet realize it.
Yeah, it’s been overshadowed a bit, but going to this church in particular is going to be 80 forms of special Hell for Becky. Not just because it’s homophobic, but also because this is the particular church that she attended with her dad and so haunted with those ghosts. Not to mention, it’s the particular flavor of church that convinced said dad that hunting her like an animal in order to “fix her” was a stand-up awesome thing to do.
And it represents the exact qualities of the town she wants nothing more to do with that she wants nothing more to do with, hateful, small-minded, racist. And she’s probably very aware that there’s going to be a metric butt-ton of holy roller types at the church who will be using her to perform the good Christian who shows their Christianity by passively-aggressively ministering at the ‘deluded’ lesbian that done got her daddy locked up for a bit of nonsense.
Basically, as much as Joyce is terrified of today, Becky’s probably doing an even more intense version of psyching herself up for this.
I still have an irrational belief that Youth Pastor Powers is going to be a breath of fresh air to Joyce and Becky and a source of horror to Joyce’s mom.
I have my doubts. My youth pastor would call Billie’s depression a godpertunity.
Dammit that was supposed to be a link. We need preview, if we can’t edit.
Godpertunity
Consensually kidnapping her for about four hours.
A boy named Tristan????? Isolde ya so!!!!!!!!
So you could say he was her Mark?
Arthur anymore puns we need to worry about? I can’t take much Morholt.
(… That last one was a stretch but since he’s actually related to their narrative I had to TRY.)
I’ll wagner there’s a couple more….
The longer I contemplated this subthread, the more dread I feel.
I’ll be galahad when it’s over.
G’wain, get outta here.
Wow. I knew there’d be a nice pun performance, so Isolde a bunch of tickets.
I’m not religious at all, but I like Joyce’s first response. The lifelong path to Christ. Although Bernie Mac wrote in his book, that he didn’t need/like to go to church because
A) there were really unholy folks that would go and then be unholy the rest of the week and he couldn’t stand the hypocrisy
B) Jesus is wherever he is, because he is in everyone, as long they keep Jesus in their hearts – which can mean any type of religious meditation, not necessarily church in his interpretation
I can also identify with waking up late as opposed to my early bird friends
I’ve got a brother-in-law named Tristan. Cool guy. Has a tattoo of the Cobra thingy.
Can that be my headcannon for the guy Joyce was into? Pretty please?
There is no weakness in this dojo!! (Sorry, it’s the first thing I think of when “Cobra” is said)
YAY Joyce and Joe. Already I love their bickery new friendship. (Also, I note that Joyce texted with HELP and Joe is there to answer the call! He’s cranky because it’s the early AM and he was sleeping after being up late texting with her in the first place, but he’s there.)
So, does Joyce also have a dog named Tristan? Or did that character trait not carry over to this universe?
RE: Alt text: So at what point will Willis run out of male names to give characters and start naming characters after lunch items from Taco Bell and stuff?
When you see a character named Chalupa, you will know.
… Wow. Rude.
I’m dying
So, La Porte County is in the Central Time Zone, and Bloomington, is, I think, in the Eastern Time Zone. Which means that for Joyce it’s actually 6 AM. Understandably getting an early start on her panicking.
Who hasn’t eye-checked someone at their service, right?
i realized i was bisexual at church so i mean
Hi-five!
I can attest to this.
A lot of the time, i was either reading or asleep, and most of the girls who i went to church with weren’t my cup of joe anyway, so…
I’m pretty sure none of them were as nice as a cup of Joe…
this is so adorable oh my god what the hell– joyce relying on joe. joe actually waking up for her. them knowing each other so well to have banter like this. shIT i was not expecting to ship this when i woke up this morning.
They’ve been texting for at least a couple days (since the “role play a married couple” gender studies class), and off-and-on all day Saturday.
I wonder if Joyce might be one of the few people who knows how hard his parent’s divorce hit him. Like, maybe Danny knows, but Joe strikes me as the type of guy to perform a sort of “pfft, oh yeah, that’s happening, but whatever, it’s chill” performance about it in public.
So this is probably as much therapy and support for him as it is for her.
*sigh* I’m gonna have to add a few more decks to the SS Joece
FULL STEAM AHEAD!
Aye, aye. Cap’n. Full steam ahead!
(and mind the icebergs!)
Ugh. Why is Joyce wasting her time on Jesus? Dude’s a loser who moved back in with his dad in his thirties. You can do better, gurl!
Last guy I knew named Tristan was from Cornwall. And he really liked Irish girls. When I pointed out the old Tristan and Iesult love story to him he got a little freaked out by the similarity to himself. It was funny.
Just so long as he doesn’t try and sleep with a married woman after he’s been injured. 😉
Nope he hasn’t. Just checked in with him because it’s been a few months since we last spoke, and it turns out he recently started dating a woman named Isolde. I must now rib him mercilessly for next hour or so. I mean, this has to be at least an eight on the scale of coincidental similarity hilariousness.
Indeed.
ugh she would fall for a tristan
Joyce always checks to make sure there’s not a secret meeting after one of the masses where everyone says mean things about her.
Alternatively, Joyce goes to one of those churches where the women bring food for the parishioners afterwards.
*Services, not masses. I’m mixing up general Christian terms with the specifically Catholic ones.
**Parishioners might also be wrong for the same reason, though I’m not sure.
You have parishioners only where you have a parish.
I do my best to give blood at Catholic churches because they have the best after-phlebotomy snacks. One time I was there at the very end and ended up bringing home a whole loaf of home baked bread.
Did you check to make sure it hadn’t transubstantiated?
But did it come with a fish?
I am cautiously optimistic for this new, not-apparently-skeevy-at-the-moment Joe. Do not disappoint me, Rosenthal.
Joe is a decent human being who happens to likes premarital hanky-panky.
I like premarital hanky-panky. Joe’s established habit of sexually harassing women who have made it abundantly clear they want nothing to do with him would, were he real, safely exclude him from my premarital hanky-panky wishlist.
I’m hoping we’re turning over a new leaf on that front for him.
I don’t remember Joe ever doing that. Can you think of or find an example?
It’s more or less because Joe is a person who shows a lot of signs of being a creeper, or at the very least, a predatory approach to sex and women. For one, he’s shown a very definite lack of respect for personal space; http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/no/
Sneaking up on someone and putting your hand around their waist is inappropriate in any situation. It’s a complete disrespect for personal space and also not very different from copping a feel. The fact that we have no past scenes that Sierra has any kind of friendship with Joe to indicate that she’d allow this behavior doesn’t help.
There’s also how, at least at the beginning of the comic, he expresses an opinion that chastity is apparently a fault that should be fixed by showing people how wonderful sex is; http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/penis/ Apart from how creepy the idea of ‘fixing’ people who don’t want to have sex is on its own, it’s also clearly motivated by his own desire to get laid, more than any benign wish to spread the joy of pre-marital hanky panky.
And finally, Sarah, who’s had to put up with his advances on more than one occassion finally has to resort to getting angry in front of him to make him realize she doesn’t want to have sex with him; http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/harness/
Basically, Joe is one of those people who we know believes in consent because it says so in the Cast page, but in the comic itself has shown many alarming signs that he might not have a very well defined understanding of where the line of consent is drawn.
So much this. We’ve seen the worst of Joe so far, so I’m really hoping we’re seeing Joe learning non-creeper ways of interacting with women and not being quite so scared to engage with emotional content or emotions in general. And maybe this also spells the end of his being “that guy” in the Gender Studies class and actually learning to let go of some of his toxic masculinity hangups that aren’t doing him any favors.
Plus, it’s really nice to have him on panel and not be muttering “shut up, Joe” at the screen.
Right? I’m like “Joe’s in this one…but I’m not angry…am I ill?”
Stan Stan Stan. Tristan.
Daaaaamn.
Joyce, calm down.
Joe With A Personality is an exciting new development.
church? now thats just ridiculous.
but stalking your love interests is totally relatable, he can relate to that
I’ve been to church – it’s the most boring place I’ve ever been. It’s like school if they never moved on from the first grade curriculum, just trying to teach you the same thing year after year after year after year after year after year…
Worshipping is one thing; I don’t do it, but it’s something you’re doing proactively that you can adjust to your current situation and thus doesn’t have to be endless, mindless repetition. (And the parts that are mindless repetition tend to be short.) Church services, on the other hand, are unending drudgery that you’d have to crazy to want to subject yourself to more than the minimum allowable amount of. (Absent a Tristan or other outside factor to entertain you while you’re there, of course.)
Why would Joyce possibly need help seven in the morning, mr sleeps with the phone on his pillow?
Seriously, Joe is doing great. He is giving Joyce the outlet to talk without having to justify or live up to anything. He is just the stupid dudebro who asks stupid questions so she can describe the situation and what bothers her.
I wonder if mr NO FEELS have done this before (you can only spend so much time flirting with everyone around you until there is FEELS) or if this is new and scary ground for him as well.
If you sleep stably enough not to end up knocking it off your bed or rolling over it, that’s as good a place for it as any, particularly if you use it as an alarm.
I’d generally put it face down to have the speaker up, though I suppose it could be one of those weird HTC phones with the speaker on the front.
i sleep with my phone on my pillow. (well, next to it.) partly for the alarm but also cause i cant fall asleep without my sleep playlist and it needs to be pretty close for me to hear it properly
Clearly I’ve missed something from before — when did Joyce and Joe become friendly enough to be texting to each other? I know some people called it, but up until the reveal, I had them as still mildly antagonistic towards each other.
That’s why it was a twist! They became friendly with each other during this conversation.
We saw the first message during gender studies (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/sorry-3/), then we saw Joyce side of the conversation, but since we didn’t know who she talked to we didn’t know that it was character development for her and Joe.
Is that her nickname for the Holy Trinity?
Everyone knows the Holy Spirit is the Hot One.
Jesus’ killer abs tend to argue.
I think the Father would like to have a word with Him on that.
Wait, so, which one’s the Purple One?
Joe and Joyce have interacted before. She smacked him on a very weird set up date. I think. Joe has shown hints of being more than a walking sex machine. He deliberately keeps feelings hidden.
Joe doesn’t get involved with his women. Wam bam thank you mam!
Joyce doesn’t want to get involved with anyone who may be interested in her.
They are perfect for each other’s needs at this point.
Joe is a much nicer person that me. I think I’d reach thru the phone and choke her….7am. It should be illegal to have two 7s in one 24 hour period.
Wait…
Will Joe end up falling for Joyce in this continuity too??
Oy, Joyce, leave me alone, would ya? 😛
Always weirded out when a fictional character has my name, it’s pretty uncommon. I’m sure if my name was Steve I’d be desensitized.
On the other hand, the first one I think of that comes to mind is pretty dang famous, at least in the Arthurian and Celtic romance circles.
… Which admittedly are only famous to people like me who are serious nerds.
I dunno, it’s weird to me, and I have a fairly common name
I identify.
Title text: Hey, you’ve got two Rachaels, you can have two Steves.
…. wait, do you have even one Steve?
Beef Walters. His real first name is Steve.
Ah, yes. He’s tagged as Beef, though.
so, im legit curious, when did these two start texting? i never got them as friends.
here
(as for how they got each other’s number, I figure it’s their generation’s thing to have everyone’s number possible just in case)
dang it
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/sorry-3/ ←here
They’re probably actually using Snapchat or Kik or something and the phone screens are just generic texty screens in order to make the comic not go out of date.
ARGH I just remembered Orlando and “safety check” came to mind with Joyce’s opening text
damn it America, when will we stop needing such a thing
This whole thing is shit. Why do we live in a country where people are afraid someone might just bust in and kill them for selfish, delusional reasons. It happens at work, it happens at school, it happens in the home. I wonder if people aren’t just collectively losing their minds since the beginning of the new century.
Perpetual self righteous victimhood, a narcissistic need for everyone to think exactly as you (general you), and the need to keep the privileged status quo is poisoning this country.
I don’t know. I’m rambling, I can’t think about this anymore tonight.
Thinking about it at all is depressing.
Oh man, this is going to be the sermon.
Meaning The Sermon.
Meaning THE Sermon.
This is the one about a week after Toedad got arrested. Half the church has to be gossiping and wondering about it. The pastor/minister/whatever’s going to have to address it, and the causes of it…
…. oh, look, a lesbian to blame.
…. oh, look, a lesbian IN THE PEWS to blame.
… oh, look, Joyce hasn’t enrolled in anger-management courses yet.
This is not going to be pretty.
I don’t know; some things that Willis has posted over the years imply that things may not be so black and white. Similarly, there may be many in the congregation who share Bank’s view of Ross.
My old church is a 16th century beast with walls of limewashed stone almost two meter thick that survived God knows how many uprisings and at least two Danish-Swedish wars.
I would give it fifty/fifty to be architecturally sound after Joyce was done with it, if they had that sermon there. It will take direct action from Hank, Becky or the Pastor to prevent her from hulking out completely.
I rather liked the comment about Joyce asking Joe for help after the murder-spree she went on.
The agony of waiting for the impending doom is intense.
*sniffs the air* Is that a flashback I smell?
Ha! Joyce has got a cru-ush! 😀
I wonder if we’re going to meet the wonder boy and if a few months apart will have changed Joyce’s perception of him?
This is adorable. Finally we get to see more of Joe’s inner personality outside of flirting with every woman he sees
OKAY FINE HIS NAME WAS TRISTAN XD
(I have no idea why I think that’s extra-duty adorable but I do)
The colours in this one are lovely. Actually evocative of that early morning light. Nice.
There was one awhile back with Becky and Dina with moving shadows.
Tristan has been having a series of seperate but extremly similar adventures with all of the characters genders switched. He becomes friends with an atheist named Theodore, who broke up with a girl named Diana. He’s constantly annoyed by a girl named Runny. Also he recently found out that his best friend Bobby is gay. Bobby’s homophobic mother tried to attack them with a gun, but was stopped by Hal and Stupendi-Boy.
You’ve put a lot of thought into this, haven’t you Some1?
No, I’m just good at improvising
You would make a great writer.
He also had a brief relationship with Ellie until she confessed she was gay too. She and Diana seem to be becoming good friends, so yay for gal pals! Now, he’s texting a girl he dated once, Johanna, but he’s aiming for mutual support rather than a straight up relationship, as she didn’t seem too keen of those, and this girl, Michelle, who chaperoned their first date made things kind of awkward between them alll for a while.
Lately Marv had found out about the secret relationship between Bill and Ralph, and has attempted to blackmail them. He also called transgender man Carl the wrong gender.
Oddly enough, he also knows a Mike that into Parasailing and Baking.
I accompanied no less than three different girls to various church services and events during my middle school years, despite being raised totally without religion. For a while I was absolutely convinced that I wanted to be Christian, and I just needed these wonderful, friendly, virtuous girls to show me the way to God. Yet somehow I could never seem to get into it, and I eventually gave up for vague agnosticism instead.
That period of time was always weird to me in retrospect. But as I was reading this strip, just now, more than a decade later, I’ve suddenly realized that I was actually totally gay, and had massive crushes on all of those girls.
Oops.
I’m not sure if I should highfive you or them, but I’m glad you found SOMETHING.
i mean at least from my experience at least half of the people joyce knows should have biblical names. its just not realistic if you dont have to ask ‘which john?’ every time someone wants to tell you who they saw at the walmart yesterday
I don’t know in the USA, but here in Chile you get into the habit of calling Juans (and sometimes Josés) by their middle name too. Like, those three hypothetical guys aren’t Juan, Juan, and Juan: they’re Juan Pablo, Juan Francisco, and Juan Ignacio.
usually you go by last name. or whoever you talked to last. this system occasionally gets confusing but you don’t tend to get people with the same last and first names
I’m really happy to be seeing moments of Joe where he’s not on game and he’s just doing right by people. I think it’s a good direction for him overall and it’s nice to see him be supportive and helpful to someone given most of his “advice” before this has not shown him at his best.
Also, dear Bob, two church services in a row? Joyce is going to be utterly destroyed at the end of this as I don’t see how they’re not going to be either excusing Toedad’s actions or condemning teh evil queers and very likely both.
On the other hand, it’s usually the same sermon in both, so maybe knowing about the early one would prepare her for the latter one. That way she has time to put trying to control her anger into action.
There is a good chance the second sermon will be “Um… let’s all just make polite smalltalk and try really hard not to have any more… incident.”
“No. Not without incident.”
You know… I seem to remember Willis mentioning that his father had stopped going to the family’s old church because the pastor wasn’t morally perfect enough for him. I wonder if we’re making assumption about the Browns’ pastor that might not be quite as reactionary as Carol and Ross’s behaviour implies. Will the sermon instead be a condemnation of violence and a plea to leave judgement and punishment to God?
Morally perfect enough in this case, though? Means CAROL’S standards, there’s mentions they switched congregations like that because of it before in the comic itself and Hank accepting Becky and by extension potentially other people among The Gays is new.
So, Carol is a less physically abusive version of Margaret White. Nice to know.
even if the pastor’s allright there’s probably going to be at least one person who stands up and prays against america’s moral decadence re: gays
I love that Joe and Joyce have gotten to know each other well enough for him to say what he did. I totally would have actually believed Joyce–that she really had been raised to think she had to go to both services. Every sign of her before shows her to take her Christianity to an extreme.
It’s also nice for Joyce, actually admitting that she was hiding her true reasons–because those reasons would be “wrong.” She’s still putting on the “perfect little Christian girl” front. Joe called her on it, and she admitted it.
That’s a good catch, and really promising for Joe’s and Jocye’s friendship – and Jocey’s overall mental health – that she can move away from the perfect girl persona.
Yeah, that’s a really nice part of their interaction. Especially since breaking away from that performative “morality” is what’s going to be most important for her mental health when she gets back to college.
Also, it’s a nice callback to this:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/carpet/
i used to go to a church that expected its teaching staff at the school attached to go to the sunday morning service, the sunday night service, and the wednesday night service.
on the one hand, you got breaks. on the other, that was so much. fortunately my dad had some common sense and did not enforce this expectation.
One more thing: so Joyce’s church is fairly large–large enough to have two morning services. That isn’t usually done unless you have a fairly large group.
For some reason, I’d always pictured Joyce’s home church as one of those smaller affairs.
I always kind of assumed that Joyce’s religious group was a fairly large part of whatever town she grew up in. Otherwise it wouldn’t make sense to me that she made it all the way to college without having her view challenged a bit more. Unless she grew up on a farm or somesuch that kind of sheltering would require at least a mid-sized buffer of likeminded people.
… But then again, I have zero experience with religious fundamentalists.
Me too, but the buffer thing does make sense.
Who doesn’t like Tristan? His voice gives him super strength!
Tristan is to Joyce what Katherine is to me.
Tristan reminds of those middle->upper class twerps who infest Brit society with their braying laughs.
I can see that connection.
Also, fitting Jason avatar for that comment…
I still don’t get why she’s asking Joe for help. Maybe it’s just a flimsy excuse to text him.
Joyce knows that Joe has gone through similar pain with his parents, and he’s divorced enough from Joyce’s regular circle of friends that she doesn’t have to worry about feeling like a burden by talking about problems they have no experience with.
This. Plus she’s been battling a lot of hateful religious ideology this weekend that has blamed her and Becky repeatedly for nearly getting shot and has otherwise been cruel and mean to a friend she feels intensely protective of. So the prospective of being surrounded by that cranked up to 11 would be a daunting one for anyone.
Not to mention that her mom has been very holy roller of late and church and the post-church brunch has a tendency of… amplifying that.
CAROL: “Joyce, who are you texting at this time of the morning?”
JOYCE: “He’s a guy I know at College, Mom. He’s a bit overbearing at times but he’s got a good heart and he’s smart when he lets himself be; I’ve found he’s good to talk to when I need a listening ear.”
CAROL: “Oh?” ((Starts smiling and thinking of Joyce’s MRS degree)) “And when am I going to meet this fine young man with whom you’ve been confiding?”
JOYCE: “You already have! He’s the big Jewish boy with the ‘come hither’ smile!”
CAROL runs out screaming.
BECKY: “You, girl, are evil. And I love you for it.”
…Carol never met Joe.
She might have off-panel; that’s called “narrative convenience”, or occasionally “author’s retcon”, by the way. 😛
Sounds less like “convenience” and more like “contrivance”.
That’s an awfully strong response to a zero-plot-significance cheap joke!
*friendshipping intensifies*
Also this is pure projection but this is the sort of fun banter that leads to crushes. Careful you twos.
The long standing shipper fan-fiction writer in me can see the possibilities, both positive and negative!
I…
I had a bit of a thing for a Tristan as a kid. This suddenly feels very weird.
(He was very intelligent, well-dressed, and if memory serves Mormon, whereas I came from a fiercely atheist family. The first bit was why I liked him, I think.)
Do we get to meet this Tristan? I would like to meet him.
Heya 😛
Heya you too 😀
Last I remember (before the strip a few days ago) Joyce and Joe were still enemies. Did I miss something, or is this in fact supposed to be a surprise.
A little from column A, a little from column B. It’s a plot development you kind of have to approach by looking at it from the end and going backwards.
Joe and Joyce bonded a little over their shared struggles with their parents and it was the first time Joyce connected to him on any real leve. What we don’t know is why she trusts him over Dorothy and Sarah.
Joe, I think, sees that Joyce has a problem, is open about her feelings, and is simple and direct about what she expects from him, so Joe finds it easier to help rather than how he has difficulty with Danny, because Danny is confused and scared about his problems with Amber and his sexuality and can’t directly talk about them, and in Joe’s world, that means he can’t be assed to put any effort into things for him.
Yes, Joyce wants straight-forward answers not clouded in religion or touchy-feely tones.
I don’t think Joe could be very helpful to Danny in his current situation, whereas he has some prior experience that might be useful to Joyce.
Pretty much, yeah. Danny doesn’t have problems that can be easily and definitively solved, so he tries to talk about his feelings instead. We’ve seen that work when he’s talked to Ethan, Dorothy, Amber and Sal, but Joe sees Danny talk about his feelings and offers solutions, because that’s how Joe processes his problems. If Danny’s sad that his girlfriend is mentally unwell, then Danny should stop dating her and dating for romance in general, because Joe’s seen Danny crash and burn when he puts so much emphasis on romance. If Danny’s trying to field questions about his sexuality because he legitimately cannot grasp that he has an attraction to men and wants to know if you can still be heterosexual and also be attracted to a guy, Joe demands that Danny tell him whether or not he’s gay because the important thing is finding the solution rather than focusing on the dreaded feelings.
So unlike Danny, Joyce is giving Joe a clear, defined problem to solve. She’s venting about her problems to him and that, plus Joe’s experiences with his parents, makes it easier for Joe to provide solutions to her, which is what Joyce is actually looking for.
Interesting thing. I’m training to be a counsellor, and one thing that my tutor put a fair amount of emphasis on is that men tend to try to “fix” things. And from looking at my classmates, I can definitely see it.
For the record, I have no idea why. I don’t know if it’s a socially ingrained thing, that men “should” be fixers, as I didn’t grow up male but fell into the same “fixing” pitfalls early on as my cis male classmates.
Anyway, just thought I’d share as you commented on Joe being interested in fixing over feelings. That, apparently, is a common thing for the menfolk.
It seems to be, yeah. My dad sold me that line for years and it’s pretty apparent whenever I talk to him about stuff. It can be really helpful when it’s needed, but it can be really frustrating when you just want to vent about stuff for a bit.
Both are good. It’s bad to vent all the time and not solve anything, but it’s also bad to totally forgo any kind of emotional reaction and instead treat it like a puzzle that needs to be solved as quickly and methodically as possible.
Joyce and Tristan sitting in a tree…
… awkwardly sort-of-holding hands, looking in opposite directions, blushing and hoping that no-one notices them.
Damn… broke the rhyme!
I hope it’s me!
Needs more syllables to work.
What about “oh emm gee I hope it’s me”?
Soooo… if in Roomies Danny was the Willis expy, and Mary was his perfect girl and was, well, Mary…
and in DoA Joyce is the Willis expy, and Tristan is her crush, does that mean that Tristan is Mary-like?
*fetches bag of chips*
Cue 4000 strips from now where Roz walks in on Mary and Tristan making out on the bed.
“(He/She) just gets me.”
Mary and Tristan, sitting in a tree,
The branch broke and they got hurt, wheee!
That made me smile 🙂
Unfortunately Tristan tried to hook up with Isolde, but her asshole possessive ex made trouble. #darkArthurianhumor
Interesting parallel I just noticed. Both are linked by how thirsty they are as well as how unhealthily they approach that.
Joyce by her repression and her trained belief that lusting after dudes is what will either send her to Hell or will be broadcast to everyone she ever knew when she goes to Heaven (and of course she’ll be the only one revealed to have man-lust, because her church is one where all the women are performing how “pure” they are as demonstrated by their lack of lust [offer does not extend to actual asexual women in the church]).
Joe by the way he drifts into PUA territory with his online “bang list” with number ratings and the way he ignores body language and pursues and innuendos at girls who have given him every signal that they are not interested as well as the way he avoids emotions and views emotional romantic connections as somehow a waste. Not to mention the weird fetishy way he treats women-loving-women relationships.
[Important disclaimer: I’m not saying that it’s a bad thing for Joe to be thirsty as fuck and prioritize sex for its own sake. Those are wonderful and fine qualities. It’s more the methods by which he pursues that which have been shown on panel to be less than savory, honest, and respecting of consent. Nor am I saying it is a slight against him that he’s not a particularly big fan of romantic relationships or that he should be in one. Rather that the judgmental way he treats others who value them [Danny] is a problem. It is possible to be horny and smutty and value sexual connections as a key part of your life without being predatory and boundary-pushing about it. Being a creeper is not actually a key part of male hetero sexuality. (Also, the fact that he’s growing and showing his better qualities is awesome. Shedding or rejecting the more toxic aspects of masculinity is a critical part of becoming the type of man women don’t warn each other about.)]
And both are inadvertently helping each other on these aspects as they interact about this separate subject. Joe, by prompting (in a non-creeper “sooo, everyone lusts eyyy?” way) Joyce to admit that her attraction to guys played a large part in her religious decisions. Joyce, by simply creating a space where Joe feels comfortable accessing some of his more painful memories of his parent’s divorce and processing them and building the ability to have emotional friendship connections with girls who are not on his bang list.
I dunno if this will eventually turn romantic in a healthy way, but I’m loving the hell of how this friendship is shaping up and it’s potential to be very healing for the individuals involved and may allow both to express their sexual desires more freely and openly in a boundary and sexual diversity respecting manner.
It’s nice to see non-terrible drama.
Their complete opposite, equally unhealthy, approaches to sexual desire are what made their date such an amazing trainwreck.
That’s… that’s my name. Heh, that’s cool. I’ve always had a crush on Joyce ever since I began reading this comic.
“Hey Joe, where you goin’ with that phone in your hand?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3JsuWz4xWc
Creepin’ on Jesus!
I see that I was not the only one to instantly think “My voice gives me super strength!” 😛
Tristan: Don’t worry guys, in a few hours, the sun will rise!
Joyce: He’s such a dreamboat. <3
I just don’t see boy-stalking as being a priority for Joyce under the current circumstances. (Especially since this boy from back home never merited a mention before now.) I would think she would be all set on getting this home visit over with and back to the relative calm of IU as quickly as possible. She can’t be so clueless as to not realize that the service is going to be rough on Becky, so the idea of Joyce wanting to stay for both services just sounds wrong.
On the other hand…staying for both services may be her family’s thing, and she can’t be seen as losing interest in church. I suppose not trying to see Tristan would be a red flag to her mother as well (“Becky is turning you into a lesbian!”), except that having (so far as mom knows) a boyfriend back at college is a legitimate excuse there.
Joyce will need Tristan so she can kiss him in front of Carol to prove she isn’t a lesbian.
(Which makes her a hussy, but one thing at a time.)
I am so guilty of the Tristan thing. Those Christian Tristans are killer, man, I’m telling you. Seriously. Had a crush on one for 3 years. Still kinda do.