Not sure if you’re being sarcastic there, but anyway … this relationship has always been at risk of breaking over their difference in maturity, and that issue is now coming to a head.
How is it coming to a head? They’re having a disagreement (I wouldn’t even call it an argument) and every relationship has disagreements. It’s how they handle it that’ll determine if they can stay together.
It’s the expiration date that dooms this relationship. Minor disagreements won’t change Walky’s realization that he can’t fail upwards from here nor will it change Dorothy’s admiration for his caramel bod and lovable quirky personality.
I can’t understand why some people feel that every minor bump in a relationship marks the end of the line. If disagreements and differences in maturity dooms a couple to break up, then my wife, the love of my life, and I (after being married longer then some of you have existed) are doomed doomed doomed. (She’s the mature one, if there was any doubt.)
Yeah the two of them don’t have a relationship that’s going to survive long term, but I’m fairly confident it’s not breaking apart over this.
Does the expiration date have something to do with Dorothy’s desire to transfer? Because she’s definitely not good enough for anywhere decent if this was the best she could do
And, as someone with personal experience pointed out in the comments a few months ago, you have to be ten times as good to transfer into Yale as to get in in the first place.
Well, all right, I guess it’s not coming to a head yet. But, given what Walky has been hiding from Dorothy, and her awareness that he had something on his mind, I suspect DW is planning to have Dorothy find out about his math grades soon. (I will skip the prospect of Walky getting tutoring and bringing his grades up, because he’s Walky.)
Now, Dorothy enjoys having an irresponsible guy who keeps things uncomplicated. She said so. But there’s harmless irresponsibility, and then there’s failing at math and not doing anything about it. She won’t let that slide.
Worse, he’s been lying to her about it. Saying that everything’s fine. Saying that the problem on his mind is something else. Dorothy’s no dummy. When she finds out about the math, it will be obvious that he’s been hiding it from her, and it won’t take her long to remember those conversations. And then she will really blow up at him — and that’s when Walky’s immaturity will come to the fore, and instead of admitting he fucked up and asking forgiveness and making amends, he will angrily storm off, and their relationship will be in major trouble.
Now, given the kind of comic this is, I think DW will eventually have them make up. But it’s going to be stormy weather for a while.
I mean I’m a huge cartoon fan so I get how the right cartoon at the right time can mean a lot, especially during those young formative years. That being said, breaking up with someone you’ve formed a connection with because they think one cartoon is slightly better than another? That’s a big leap to make.
Don’t think they will actually split up here. I think this is just bringing Walky back down to Earth, but it’s entirely possible given previous history and Walky’s response to having his ego bruised.
I was thinking more inciting incident rather than reason as if they broke up here, it wouldn’t actually be about the cartoon, the cartoon would just be the thing that precipitated some conflict.
But yeah, that earlier breakup is a bit complex, because to Walky it was about his gf not supporting him in the way he felt he deserved and like she was trying to control him or deny him something he wanted to do. And to Dorothy, it was about Walky having little regard towards trying to look attractive for her and treating a minor incident as some direct attack on his fundamental character.
It wasn’t that she didn’t support, him, though. She was giving him orders about what he was allowed to wear. I think she even gave the ultimatum.
Walky… walked. And I really think it was the more mature behavior of the two. Odd, given that the inciting incident definitely did not involve Walky being the more mature.
My ex-girlfriend broke up with me because I was bummed because I missed her (there was a lot going on and we didn’t see or talk to each other much), and my being bummed bummed her out…so yeah…
All relationships have an expiration date. Just because theirs will be a little sooner doesn’t mean it’s necessarily any less serious (despite what Dorothy wanted in the first place).
I mean, I don’t know if there’s some super important reason that he loves this show, but so far, it looks like he’s getting really bent out of shape because he prefers the fart episode.
He’s got a history of this, it seems. Back when he was showing the show to Dorothy he was kind of an asshole about her talking over it.
He’s just a manchild, and Dorothy should really realize that soon. Its weirdly counterproductive to her “have an emotionally unattached fling before SUPER-COLLEGE” plan.
I think Dorothy is aware of his manchildish state, and it makes him seem an even better refuge from her Real Life of Great Achievements. She puts enough pressure on herself, it’s nice to have a low-key person with whom she can just relax towards simpler modes of thinking. (She really wasn’t counting on falling in love with him, but hey, whatcha gonna do.)
Lack of ambitions *beyond dating Dorothy*. Walky’s got no real-world ambitions, but he also doesn’t plan on just hanging off Dorothy like a big lump for the rest of his life, which is where Danny was headed.
I raged about this literally ages ago. Danny was there for her as a loyal, nice guy that can actually work his way through college, unlike Walky. He was ready to be next to Dorothy whatever she does. But then she dumped him because “he wasn’t ambitious enough”, then right after that she starts fucking an immature kid “for fun”. This woman, seriously.
Uh…Walky isn’t a “manchild’. He’s a freshman in college. A freshman in the first semester of college. He’s still a teenager. He can’t legally drink. He probably can’t even vote yet. He’s allowed to be upset at things like apparently totally misunderstanding something he thought he and his girlfriend share absolutely in common.
Also, it’s a little troubling that everyone’s immediately jumping to “wow lol how annoying of Walky” instead of “wow, Dotty’s being kind of pretentious about this.” So what if she thinks the argument is stupid? That doesn’t mean it is. Walky (AND Carla, again, she’s in this too and no one’s calling HER a child or immature) shouldn’t have chased her down, sure. I’ll agree with that. But for all we know, Walky’s passion for his favorite cartoon could lead to a career in the cartoon industry. Or not, because he’s clearly “mature, better-than-him” girlfriend thinks getting that passionate about cartoons is a waste of time.
Just, ugh. I do think they should break up. But they should break up because Dotty’s high horse is seriously bothering me. Who cares if she already knows what college she wants to go to, or what she wants to do with her life? She’s a jerk to her boyfriend.
^I mean, this coming from someone who is in tech/social media/gaming as a career path and who is constantly put down by people like Dotty who are too ~mature~ to care about things like this
I think when you insist that someone else give their opinion on an argument they weren’t involved in and didn’t want anything to do with, and refuse to accept their first tactful response, they’re entitled to say the argument is stupid.
No, he is (IMO) absolutely acting even more immature than your average high school senior/college freshman. Including many of his peers, including the sheltered fundie girl. And has since his first appearance in this strip/setting. He’s 18 going on 8.
Except for those cases where he’s taken off the disguise and transforms into mature responsible mode – meeting Dorothy’s parents and apologizing to Carol for Mike on the phone while everyone else was paralyzed come to mind. Maybe his recent talk with Amazi-Girl too.
He just doesn’t like to do it and much of his privilege lies in him not having to. Being able to get by as a snarky, lazy goofball who puts in no effort. He doesn’t want to have to live up to his potential all the time, because that’s work.
I really dislike it when people try to treat people in their late teens/early twenties as children. Sure, they are not full blown adults but at that age a certain level of reasonability can and should be expected. And Walky really fails to hit that level.
He did actually open up to Dorothy about this a bit early on. They were a thing he watched with Sal before she got taken away and then Billie got popular and he didn’t really have any friends so he watched them alone. Reading a bit between the lines there, the cartoon was important to him, and not just because he likes fart jokes.
It’s not as dramatic as Carla’s reasons, but it’s not irrelevant either. Of course, Ultra Car isn’t actually a better show because she couldn’t find a toy and her parents made her one, no matter how important that was to her.
I think the joke there is that often people will print pictures of characters from anime on body pillows, to fulfill the fantasy of ‘being with’ that particular character (also body pillows are comfy so why not have one with your favourite character on it?) But Dexter and Monkey Master is a Western cartoon and therefore has no body pillows (although I’d buy a Monkey Master body pillow)
Don’t bring Transformers into this. Ask them to choose between the show with the talking car and the one with the robot monkey?! Blood was shed over that issue in the 90s. They will NOT calm down.
A) The argument shifts from which cartoon series was smarter, to which cartoon series was cooler.
B) Dorothy technically said that the content of/reason for the argument was stupid, not that the arguing itself was stupid.
People keep saying this. What am I missing? I saw walky call himself “david walkterton” in yesterday’s comic. I am totally willing to believe that is a call back to her calling him that… But I am getting frustrated at my inability to find things.
I have a history though of having words out of place when I read. Which is why I get so frustrated with myself. So I’d very much appreciate if someone could point me to what you all are referring to.
Found it. I had to read that panel about 20 times though! I am sometimes not good at finding small parts of a panel. I literally did not register that there was even a speech bubble there.
I frequently find that expectations filter what I can perceive. For explicitly visual things, I find occasionally find it helpful to look at things upside down and stuff will catch my eye which are otherwise filtered out. Of course that’s hard to do with a computer screen.
Most computers actually have a setting for that. I know because it was a great way to mess with computer illiterate teachers. A bit of searching should yield the option to either “Rotate Screen 180°” or “Flip Screen Horizontally.” I used to have the keyboard shortcut memorized.
Yeah, they don’t appear (at least to me) to have the healthiest relationship, considering things as small as pajama jeans and cartoons and (almost) cookies can cause huge problems in their relationship.
I’m not an expert, though, sooooooooooooooooooooo
oh no his sad little face :C this discussion is way too emotional. also Dorothy why you calling him David all of a sudden?! this seems unexpected and possibly life-changing
I think we’re seeing the gentle dressing down option. I think she’s trying to be serious, gentle, but also firm with him.
And I think it’s largely to do with his demand to be supported in his argument, which, yeah, needs pushback.
Largely because he had no right to try and drag her into his dumb little nerd fight or expect her to back up his opinions no matter what simply because she’s his girlfriend. And especially not when he’s being a dick to someone else and doubling down on it.
Dorothy is a feminist and has a lot of feelings surrounding being treated as someone’s accessory rather than a confident woman who has her own feelings. And I think this might be her way of gently reminding Walky that she’s willing to support him in many ways, but those don’t include being treated as a dutiful second body to win fights.
Like, it’s not a massive wrong, per se, but it is a behavior that Dorothy likely has no patience for encouraging, especially with being treated partially as a thing to fulfill a role was a big part of what broke up her and Danny.
When video games LITERALLY use a technology called “augmented reality”, that actually takes reality and adds stuff to it, you know that something’s gone either horribly wrong or horribly right.
Seriously, people need to be more aware of their surroundings and other people when playing.
Seriously, there are plenty of Pidgeys. You don’t have to fight over the one sitting around over there.
I’m more amazed at how quickly it’s taken off, especially considering Nintendo’s history of ignoring smartphones in favor of pushing their traditional dedicated hardware.
Pokemon was made for AR before AR was even a thing.
Its the perfect game for it – so its only going to get better.
And yes, AR is the future.
We will live in a half virtual world in the next few years basically. Its inevitable at this point.
Seems pretty great to me too; Anything Anywhere. We can feed outr infovour/gameing addictions without being stuck to a desk.
Bonus, eventually we could reskin things to look like other things – and when anything can look like anything with a few clicks,will we care for brands and fashion so much? will we lust for (non-functional) status symbols at all?
Just how many pixels will replace atoms? How many products wont need to be physically made (and thus safe resources)?
Isn’t it always the case, no matter how much you love your boyfriend, sooner or later you will have to put him against your intellectual integrity in matters of cartoons.
In my experience not terribly well :/. I do have friends that have great relationships where one person is ace, so it’s definitely possible! It’s just that sex is one of the big dealbreakers for romantic relationships, surpassing the questions of both marriage and children. And like, if a prospective partner and I aren’t compatible, we’re not compatible. It’s disappointing and frustrating to not be compatible with the vast majority of the populace, but it is what it is.
Depends on the couple, since whilst some ace people do enjoy sexual stuff sometimes, plenty of us want nothing to do with it at all. Similarly, if a non-ace partner of an ace person considers sexual contact to be an important part of a relationship that they’re not willing to leave out, then there might well be problems. But, if that non-ace partner is totally cool with not sleeping with their partner then chances are things will be totally fine.
Some couples in this situation decide that they’d both be happier if the partner who does want sex fulfills that desire with other people, so the relationship could be described as an open one, and for some people that works out great, others it does not.
As with most relationship stuff, what works and what doesn’t depends on the people involved, and so long as they communicate honestly with each other things will probably work out fine.
Like, romantic asexuals exist and healthy relationships with ace spectrum folks with folks who are ace spectrum or even who are not can definitely thrive under similar conditions to most any other relationship.
However, there’s a lot of ignorance surrounding asexuality that can slip into relationships and breed problems. A lot of ace folks can be under risk for sexual coercion from a partner who just sort of expected sex to be a given in a relationship without talking about it or what everyone is looking for in a relationship. As is problems such as sexual assault and corrective rape.
Less awfully, but still negatively, we as a culture tend to be pretty hesitant on that whole actual communicating in relationships thing, especially in terms of having frank conversations about sex and sexual communication. A lot of sexual folks in relationships with asexual folks are used to relying on shortcuts like mutual sexual attraction and chemistry or sexual interest to broach the subject of physicality regardless of what the asexual actually is comfortable with.
And sexual partners who are women tend to be under strong social pressure to view a partner’s lack of sexual attraction as a sign of a personal failing of attractiveness or worth. And sexual partners who are men tend to be under strong social pressure to view a partner’s lack of sexual attraction as a personal attack or a diminishing of their masculinity in some way.
That all being said, these are mostly problems with a lot of the social baggage and general acephobia of our current culture. With communication (a staple of any healthy relationship) a long-lasting romantic partnership is as possible between an asexual and a sexual as between two sexuals.
Not to mention that dating an asexual is not necessarily a sign that the relationship will be sexless. Some asexuals find non-sexual enjoyment in certain sexual acts or have variable or conditional sexual attractions (ace is a spectrum after all).
Not to mention that arrangements like polyamory can exist.
All together I’ve had reasonably decent success in that all my relationships tend to be long-lasting and I’m currently in two very loving relationships at the moment.
/signed. I am an ace woman, and my lesbian girlfriend and I celebrated our fourth anniversary a few months ago. We are successful exactly because we communicate very honestly and work together to find solutions that work for both of us. Also the loving each other thing.
And definitely agree. A relationship with ace people in it will succeed or fail similar to any other relationship based on how willing the people in it are to communicate honestly and find a shape that best works for them.
That question is explored at one point in girls with slingshots. The outcome is adorable. (the link below will put you at a keypoint of their relationship. SPOILERS). http://www.girlswithslingshots.com/comic/gws-1370
also how does Walky enen know who Carla is?? Him using her name, not just saying “her” implies they’ve been introduced. By who? When? Did I miss something?
I’d trust her judgement on intelligent cartoons. The woman does have a Persepolis poster in her room.
Incidentally, I just discovered a local theater is doing a Miyazaki retrospective. On Sunday I got the surreal experience of watching Kiki’s Delivery Service in a PACKED theater. They sold out of tickets to a 27 year old SUBTITLED movie. People actually APPLAUDED at the end.
I used to work in a theater, and my experiences there basically turned me into Jason from Multiplex when it comes to my thoughts on the moviegoing public. May need to reevaluate some things.
oh god Kiki is so SAD. she can’t make good things happen to good people or fix emotions. it’s such a melancholy film. it really hurt to watch it and i might not be able to watch it again.
I love that Dorothy has in fact seen the Ultra Car cartoon.
And probably was likewise saddened as a child no one would make toys of it, if only for a moment in between her baby politicianness. (Eight-year-old Dorothy was totally class president. Also at Valentine’s Day her cards were Dexter and Monkey Master ones, which were the coolest.)
I wonder if this is a metaphor for something deeper.
Like, Ultra Car was a smart women-centric show that Carla notes had some deep thoughts on gender stuff. But it got cancelled early and had no toys out for it and is pissed on by traditional cartoon fans. I wonder if Ultra Car had a devoted girl fanbase, but got axed and hated on for largely sexist reasons.
And so, for Dorothy and Carla, that was a first formative experience that the things that are made for girls like them will always be publicly treated as worthless entirely because women like it or are in it and that if they want to be into something popular, they’re gonna have to be into things that are advertising themselves specifically for boys.
And for Carla, doing that was not something she was ever going to feel comfortable doing, but to Dorothy, it was something that she was more willing to do.
So basically, my thought is that she found a lot of stuff rewarding in the show marketed to boys, but still recognizes the sexist pressure that axed the smart clever show that was popular with girls.
But seriously, yeah, I was being deliberate to try and not name names because I feel this happens to a lot of media that are either popular with girls or women or star women prominently.
Like, Legend of Korra is another that had a strong pedigree leading in but since it had a girl lead, Nickelodeon was extra antsy about fully backing it and kept dicking the creators around on the amount of seasons and budget they had to tell their story.
That sort of stuff happens a lot and it’s something you get real used to when you’re a girl fan of cartoons and other geek media (ask any comic fangirl about how Wonder Woman is perennially mismanaged or how scared we get that Squirrel Girl or Miss Marvel is going to be suddenly axed one day for having the “wrong types of fans”).
Honestly, it’d be a lot easier if it was just individual works getting screwed over rather than being part of a larger overall pattern.
That toy aspect of the Ultra Car cancellation kinda confuses me. It’s a car! Whole empires have been created on cars! Imagine transforming Ultra Car, the Ultra car ultra fast race track, Ultra car battery operated buggies to ride in, Talking Ultra car remote controlled racer! The people in charge of marketing and merchandise for this fictional cartoon inside a fictional comic were idiots. And before you say “girls don’t like cars” They do. Cars are unisex and you can even have a “pink” one if you want to appeal to that gender stereotype. Rant over.
And now we find out if Walky is mature enough to handle a mature discussion about maturely looking back at old favorites as our tastes mature out of the WHO AM I KIDDING?
You’re not kidding a kidder because kidders can’t be kidded. Kid? Kidden?
God damned Germanic languages with their goddamned strong verbs making it goddam impossibe to figure out the gd participles and it’s a good thing this rant is over because if I compressedthat cursing anmore it would create a singulatity and swallow the rest of my gMOOB!
Kidded, I believe, is the correct one, although I have seen kid on occasion but there’s no way I’m ever using anything but kidden now. May I use your rant to go along with it? I have a lot of problems with this language.
Also, this sounds like conversations I keep having to avoid re: Narnia/Potter and REH/LotR.
Yes, I know you are emotionally invested in it, but the lack of character development/crap poetry/endless lack of plot means those other books are better.
Nor for that matter, are REH &LotR. I’m actually fond of all 4, in very different ways and I’m not sure which conversations Skizz is avoiding or even which they think are better.
I’m guessing the “crap poetry” is a LotR’s reference cause I can’t think of poetry in the others.
I know the other three, but what’s REH? Google was no help.
I likewise would not compare them. But I also think comparing series is stupid anyways. I get nerd love for show. I get nerd rage when a show is treated badly. I do not get nerd rage over which show is better.
I mean, I’m a nerd. I’m fully aware that I like things other people don’t. So obviously the same thing can happen in reverse.
And, yes, a nerd can not know some nerdy thing that you think everyone knows.
Dorothy if you want to be in a relationship with someone then sometimes you have to suck it up and agree with them even when, especially when, they say something boneheaded
By all means let them have it in private but its always better to project a united front in public
Like, if it’s some asshole tearing your partner down or just being a dick to them, then fuck yeah, the time for nuance is later, take down the bastard together.
But if it’s something like, “hey, be complicit in my accidental shitting on a treasured childhood memory of someone else because my nerd dick needs to be the biggest”, then fuck that noise, you’re on your own sucker.
But then, I date people who’re very appreciative of being clued in that they’re being dickish to someone and I tend to also be very appreciative when I’m called out by a loved one for doing something douchey.
My wife lets me know if I’m being a dick (just being a dick I mean so not anything really bad) in private and I do the same as well
But in public we present a united front because if you can’t even support your partner over something trivial then, to me, you’re putting yourself ahead of your partners feelings
I dunno, I think it’s just different perspective, but I like being called out in the moment, because if I’m being a dick, I want to be able to stop it early before I continue to unwittingly hurt someone’s feelings.
Though that might be because I tend to really internalize hurting other people so knowing early saves me a lot of mental anguish later where I’m beating myself up for being both a dick and oblivious.
Yeah, I straight up call someone out if they’re actively being a dick because of that reason. I’m not tossing anyone under the bus by pretending to support someone who I know is being an ass, and I expect my friend/SO/sibling to do the same to me. I’m not likely to tear into them in public, but I’ll definitely take the side of the person being harmed or insulted. It’s not about me putting my feelings first, it’s about me doing right by someone else.
Yeah, I’ve read the rest of this thread, and I still can’t budge toward Chris, and you just bring up more reasons. Like, even ignoring wanting to know that I’m being a dick or said something not-okay by accident of wording, I want to actually be able to have discussions with people, including my husband, especially if other people are involved (that is, not that I prefer talking to him with other people, but rather that when with other people, I want to be able to discuss with him too). Plus, I am not going to sit there and be associated with it if he’s saying something dumb or rude.
Of course, this doesn’t come up much because the things we disagree on are relatively harmless.
But what if, similar to this situation, you genuinely disagree with your partner? Are you expected to stifle your own feelings in favor of your partner’s? And in that case, how do you decide which one of you has to fold?
Not at all, do it right and doesn’t take long to sort out the issues because you should naturally want to be a better person for your partner anyway, at least thats how it worked for us.
My wife and I are partners, not the same person. We’re both on the board of directors of the same non-profit and it isn’t all that uncommon for us to come down on different sides of a question. If we always were going to have the same opinion, there wouldn’t be any sense in having us both on the board. Presenting a united front might actually be useful if your facing someone that would exploit differences (you know, like your kids) but otherwise it’s artificial and of limited usefulness.
…this makes it sound worse, not better. Why are you defining tossing one’s opinions in the trash and blindly following one’s partner as “becoming a better person”???
To Shiro, when I was younger I didn’t take criticism well, I took it as somewhat of a personal attack. So being criticized, in public, didn’t sit well with me.
Same thing with my wife (partner at the time) is that she doesn’t like criticism either (rough childhood I suspect) so what we both decided was to present a united front and bring up the things we don’t like in private
What that did for us is we both felt less judged and because of that we could talk it through and as I said previously those issues became less and less
For some people on here that doesn’t sit well and that’s cool, others on here see it as controlling, due to previous experiences, and I feel bad for them
I can say that for us it works well, we’ve been together coming up 12 years now and married for 8
Frankly, that’s ridiculous. I’m dating my boyfriend, not becoming his squire or some shit. And again, how do you figure out which one of you has to ignore their own opinions in favor of blindly following the other?
Different people want different things out of relationships. Sometimes solidarity works better for couples than disagreeing in public. Sometimes disagreeing in public works better. What’s healthy for any given relationship is a case-by-case question.
I have a deep hatred of the “united front” concept that is for reasons entirely related to my own baggage from growing up, but butting that aside:
I support the idea of supporting your partner in stuff that’s important to them, even if you don’t necessarily understand the importance. Case in point: My partner loves Azimov books. I can’t stand them myself, but I get why he likes them and I’m not going to throw a temper tantrum over him wanting to watch a documentary or some shit about the guy.
However, I don’t stuff my own feelings in favor of his. If we’re in public and the topic goes to Azimov, I will say I don’t like the guy, I find his writing two-dimensional and sexist as fuck, and while I do understand his role as someone who forged a lot of what we think of as what sci-fi is today, I also think he is over-rated and there are much better authors out there (including authors who can write more than two types of female characters – which is an issue that is important to me). To be perfectly honest, women and female-read people are always under an immense amount of pressure to basically be Danny and suppress our own will and interests and preferences in favor of our partners’. The whole, “You’re not supporting meeeee if you don’t take my side in things in public!” thing is just an extension of that.
And I have a big problem with that expectation: I do not exist to be my partner’s support. I am my own person, with my own thoughts, beliefs, opinions, and emotions. Sometimes the two of us disagree, and if/when that happens, I will not suppress who I am. Neither, for that matter, do I expect him to suppress who he is. The two of us got to where we are with open and honest communication, and we’re not about to stop on that front now.
“I have a deep hatred of the “united front” concept that is for reasons entirely related to my own baggage from growing up, but butting that aside:”
you have good reasons for hating the concept based on your previous experience of it and that’s cool
“I support the idea of supporting your partner in stuff that’s important to them, even if you don’t necessarily understand the importance. Case in point: My partner loves Azimov books. I can’t stand them myself, but I get why he likes them and I’m not going to throw a temper tantrum over him wanting to watch a documentary or some shit about the guy.”
“However, I don’t stuff my own feelings in favor of his. If we’re in public and the topic goes to Azimov, I will say I don’t like the guy, I find his writing two-dimensional and sexist as fuck, and while I do understand his role as someone who forged a lot of what we think of as what sci-fi is today, I also think he is over-rated and there are much better authors out there (including authors who can write more than two types of female characters – which is an issue that is important to me). To be perfectly honest, women and female-read people are always under an immense amount of pressure to basically be Danny and suppress our own will and interests and preferences in favor of our partners’. The whole, “You’re not supporting meeeee if you don’t take my side in things in public!” thing is just an extension of that.”
Good, if it doesn’t work for you then you shouldn’t do it. However please note that I’m not expecting my wife do it and I don’t, when the situations are reversed I’m the one that, at the very least, keeps non-committal, and brings up the issue later (though happening less now of course)
And I have a big problem with that expectation: I do not exist to be my partner’s support. I am my own person, with my own thoughts, beliefs, opinions, and emotions. Sometimes the two of us disagree, and if/when that happens, I will not suppress who I am. Neither, for that matter, do I expect him to suppress who he is. The two of us got to where we are with open and honest communication, and we’re not about to stop on that front now.
and that’s fine, I don’t exist to be my wifes support either but I do so because I want to (and vice versa)
I agree with you, the main point of difference is that we keep it private and it works for us
She didn’t say Carla was right in public. She just didn’t lie and support Walky when he was being a complete asshole to Carla. Why should she care only about Walky’s feelings, and not Carla’s?
I mean, he made fun of her as a person because she was a big fan of a show he didn’t like. Then he went further and belittled her comment about how her personal connection with the show by equating it with a farting episode.
Sure, she accidentally let slip that she thought the argument was stupid, but that was only after Carla needled her.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with not helping your partner make a further ass of himself.
the tropes page described dorothy as enjoying having to take care of walky, but now it seems as if dorothy is beginning to realize that walky might really never grow out of the childish mindset he maintains. if the current situation doesn’t induce some sort of needed maturation in him, dorothy could begin to be stressed out by the relationship and it would have to end as quickly as possible. it would be good for her to be apart from walky and his eternal manchild philosophy. for walky, well, i dont know what’ll happen for him.
her saying david instead of walky like usual could be the signifier of the stress in the relationship taking its toll on her.
I don’t necessarily see it as realizing that Walky never changes, because she’s still in the belief that this relationship has a defined end-point and so it doesn’t matter if he grows up overall in his entire life so long as he’s fun and relaxing to be with now.
But you might be right in that she’s recognizing the parts where his more toxic behaviors can sometimes be more exhausting than they are refreshing when they are out in force (I’m thinking also of his temper tantrum with the pajama jeans).
Honestly, though, I think she’d be overall happier if she wasn’t finding it so easy to drift into believing it is her job to fix up Walky and make him a better man and instead just let herself enjoy sex for sex’s sake without beating herself up with nightmares about future tabloid headlines.
I honestly don’t think Dorothy’s feeling much overall relationship stress.
WALKY is, because he’s bottled up his concerns about failing and tied that into measuring up to Dorothy and worrying that she’ll dump him if his grades are bad and that whole love comment and a bunch of other stuff. Every time he refuses to face that or let it air out, it adds another weight to the mass that might one day suffocate the relationship. And this might be one more thing (if it’s not the last straw), the idea that his favorite cartoon isn’t smart enough by the standards of the smartest person he knows, that it is inferior and childish. His tastes become a personal condemnation. If he swallows that and doesn’t at least discuss it, that will ratchet up his stress factor in this relationship further.
But Dorothy doesn’t have that problem. She doesn’t hide things from Walky. She’s brave enough to say things, expose aspects of herself, knowing that she might get hurt as a result but still willing to accept that as the price of being authentic. (No, less of a price and more of an aspect. It’s two sides of the same coin.) The stress Dorothy’s going through right now is less “this overall relationship is problematic in a fundamental long-term way”, and more “this conversation’s going to be difficult for the next few minutes”.
I’m almost tempted to say that Dorothy’s laying down a gauntlet here and challenging Walky to grow. But she isn’t. She seems okay with him remaining an immature goof. Right here, she’s simply staking out her own ground and holding it, as is her right. The only challenge she’s issuing to Walky in this is the challenge she poses by her very existence as an authentic, mature, intelligent person that he interacts with.
She’s not particularly angry with him, but she’s also not going to hide the fact that she’s a strong independent and opinionated woman in her own right with her own history of connection to particular pieces of media.
So more a “Walky, no, no honey” rather than a “ugh, you’re really not being sexy right now”.
It could be that Walky is beginning to not be alright with the box that he encouraged Dorothy to put him in. At least, I think this is where it’s going. I feel as though Dorothy might get hurt, but I also feel Walky may be hurt as well – he might walk away from this relationship, look back and dislike that he felt he had to hide himself and that he embraced a persona he didn’t realize looked a certain way to others, or that he didn’t know he didn’t want to be. Walkys arc may be him becoming whole instead of forcing himself to be 2D for simplicity and comfort.
My guess is that he’ll continue running from the idea that he’s eventually going to have to do girly stuff like talk out his feelings about various stuff with people in a way that might make him feel super vulnerable or that will go against his ego.
Up until he can’t anymore.
And I think that when he breaks, it’ll be the grade thing that’ll take center stage.
Because that’s pressing right up against the very thing he’s been using to prop up his entire sense of self as a super smart dude who succeeds without even needing to try (with no outside aid by systems of oppression). Not to mention the thing that’s probably been pressing back against a lot of awful racist social messages about black men like him.
The thing is, Walky doesn’t IDENTIFY as black. While that sort of messaging has doubtless been applied to him to some degree, I think it may have had trouble sticking. Maybe it’s a sort of mixed-race privilege thing where he’s found a mindset wherein he can ignore all the stereotypes about black people where he’s concerned.
My prediction — and yes, it could go a lot of ways, including what you’re describing Cerb — is that being honest with Dorothy will start scaring him. The stakes have been raised and he won’t be relaxed enough with her to actually bare what’s going on in his heart and head. (He’s there already, but it can get more so.) Eventually he’s going to need to talk about it. It can’t be with another dude because dudes, and it can’t be with Dorothy because that’s the problem, so it will be with a woman. And thus will start an infidelity (even if it’s just an emotional one) that tears the whole thing apart.
I might get flamed for this, but Walky is black because he is mixed and one of his parents is black. his blackness is not negated because one of his parents is white. The world interacts with him as if he is black. People in the comics and on comment have referred to him as “caramel” – which is a term decidedly not applied to white people.
Race is a bit more complex in that way. So much of your perception of yourself, racially, is dictated by the way people interact with you. Walky is mixed, and because he is light, his parents treated him way better. In the same way, Sal got treated like shit because she is blacker than him. Additionally, it could be a parallel to the way Blackness is often defined as the opposite of whiteness, even though Black culture is its own entity.
Ex. We think uneducated- we think POC especially black people. Why? Because that’s how a lot of people, on a federal and social level, interact with black people. We think speaking standard English is how only white people speak. We assume black people are dangerous and white people are safe. And so on. It could be that Walky has internalized that, especially because of Sal, and so he distances himself from that part of the heritage. Someone telling me they’re “generically beige” communicates to me 1) a joke, which is not a real answer 2) an indication that they haven’t thought about it at best.
Likewise, we cannot accept Sal as black and turn around and deny that Walky is also black. It doesn’t make sense to me. Theyre twins. I guarantee you the rest of the world interacts with both of them as if they are black. Walky can’t really hide his race/skin color.. it’s why I’m confused Everytime someone says he not black, and I also wince a little, as someone who is not mixed but is black also. That could be my own reason why I feel this way. I must think on it more.
Like is said. I know I’ll get flamed for this, but in terms of race, I feel it differs from other things like sexuality (as in, you really couldn’t look at someone and “tell what they are” so to speak) in the sense that if Walky was stopped by a cop, that cop wouldn’t care what Walky identified as. That’s what complicates it. It is physical and people definitely do interact with you differently. It’s an interesting discussion to be had though. I hope I haven’t stepped on toes with my last paragraph.
I’m in agreement with most of what you said there. My point was that, strictly in terms of whether he has internalized and is self-applying negative stereotypes about black people that he has likely been exposed to throughout his life, him not self-identifying as black could effectively prevent that from impacting his self-esteem.
Walky is black by our society’s definition of that and as such is not immune to all the shit that is thrown at black folks in our society.
Like, he may have a lot of hangups about fully identifying with black culture (gee, I wonder how growing up in super white-bread parts of Indiana with parents who regularly put down signs of black identity in their children such as natural hair might lead to a really awkward relationship with one’s own blackness), but that doesn’t actually protect him from societal racism and all that comes with it.
And that has definitely not been helped by his family regularly shitting on his sister because she is seen as “blacker” in the sense that the family associates her with criminality, poor academic performances, violence, and disobedience. Nor has it been helped by his family overly rewarding specific forms of success.
Honestly, I think one of the arcs we’re already starting to see with him is him slowly coming to terms with his blackness and how that racial identity has shaped him as well as how the racism both inside his family and outside his family has shaped his attitude and perceptions of that racial identity.
Reltzik- I guess I see that as more of a symptom of that internalization. I.e. he’s been told all his life that black people are violent ignorant criminals and he isn’t any of those things, so he thinks he must not be black, because that’s the image of blackness most presented to him.
And that he might subconsciously believe that if he doesn’t view himself as black or call himself black, he’ll somehow avoid some of the racist garbage his sister has had to endure growing up.
Billie has alluded to Walky not really noticing how the world treats him and Sal, because he never left his cartoons. With his straight hair, effortless academic success, parental expectations/treatment as their golden boy, and having zero interest in leaving his own bubble, he may not have been treated differently in a way he would notice. (Like, his teachers may have called him ‘articulate’ in a way they wouldn’t say about a white student, they may have been surprised how well he did in school, but Walky would just think that meant he was articulate and extra-clever.) Walky certainly hadn’t reflected on his treatment or compared it to anything else, until very recently with Sal.
Sal, on the other hand, reads much more “Black” than her twin brother, and left cartoons ages ago, to notice society’s opinions of her, which have caused her very unfair treatment. She’s also had plenty of time and inclination to reflect on her family’s and society’s views of her, and to grapple with those effects as she builds her identity as a young Black woman.
In addition, I wonder whether Walky is, subconsciously, firmly rejecting his potential Blackness. After all, their parents gave them a ton of covert messages that being Black is not as good, and being genetically beige preserves his favoured status. Doubly so if his cartoon is considered a white-kid thing. It’s hard not to internalize that constant barrage.
“In addition, I wonder whether Walky is, subconsciously, firmly rejecting his potential Blackness. After all, their parents gave them a ton of covert messages that being Black is not as good, and being genetically beige preserves his favoured status. Doubly so if his cartoon is considered a white-kid thing. It’s hard not to internalize that constant barrage.”
I was with you until the emotional infidelity thing. I’m not saying it won’t happen, or that it doesn’t happen, but I think it’s entirely possible for even an emotionally immature man to seek and receive help doing and learning to do social and emotional labour without tumbling into an affair.
At some level this is just a longer-winded way of saying “Men and women can be friends, you know!” which personal experience, if nothing else, has demonstrated to me is true. I’m not saying the friendships are equal or fair, or that there’s no sexual tension in them, but they do happen, and men do seek the advice of women friends, without turning into affairs.
Sure. And I did emphasize that it might just be emotional, rather than sexual.
The problem wouldn’t be that he was opening up to someone else. The problem would be that he was opening up to someone else INSTEAD OF DOROTHY.
To be open and authentic with someone else about your deepest self while being closed and secretive with your significant other in the same regard, THAT is a recipe for disaster.
Third panel Walky shows a self awareness that a lot of people don’t have: that the amount of emotion you’ve invested into am argument might not be proportional to the subject being discussed (Walky notices it but doesn’t do anything about it)
But he always presents such awareness with a sense of dismissing said awareness. “Yeah, I know it, but I’m ignoring it, and even if I just said it, I said it as a joke so it doesn’t count.”
Out of curiosity have you by any chance seen “The Mask You Live In”? It has some weak areas as a documentary but it’s still overall a rather solid look at how such social messages combine to create the modern flavor of toxic masculinity.
Final Fantasies 6 and 8, Link to the Past, Master of Orion 2, Super Metroid, pulling the pin on a nerd rage grenade and running away before the comment thread goes kaboom…
I thought 8 was alright. I found the draw system to be interesting – I’m a player that enjoys level grinding though. The story however, was super convoluted and certain characters (*cough* Sender *cough) definitely could have been fleshed out/had better roles. I was also surprised to find that the Dynasty Warriors series isn’t insanely popular in the US.
I liked it fine, growing up, and in a lot of ways it aged decently. It’s by no means terrible. But slightly janky translation aside (Because that can at least be fun), it… didn’t really have much to work with in terms of character. Sure, there’s more of it than prior in the series, and it’s more than most contemporary games of its time, but… those are pretty low bars, all told. Even comparing it to other modern JRPGs, companies have learned to do character interaction better, by a pretty notable degree.
Ooh, this reminds me Young Justice being canceled because girls were watching it instead of boys. Hoping a real discussion happens here (though, with Walky involved, chances aren’t the best for that)
Not even. YJ mainly got canceled because there was a contractual tie between it and the then current Green Lantern animated (specifically they had to contractually keep making both or drop both). They had to can Green Lantern because it was a massive money pit due to the movie failing, and even with it’s good ratings Young Justice wasn’t bringing in that level of value. The female dominant proportion of the audience was just an added excuse on the executive level.
Oh and rumor is (well, was a month or two back) that Netflix is trying to negotiate rights to bring the series back as a Netflix original with the same cast and crew.
Really? I read it had something to do with not selling enough merchandise to the “right” age category, despite strong ratings. I thought I read people objected by saying they could have sold merchandise to an older audience but they elected not to.
That was a very big reason too. And while I understand people’s opinions on “well, just market to the demographic that IS watching it!” (re: older teenage girls)….that’s simply not how businesses work. If a toy and merchandise company dumps massive funds into a project and that project fails, they’re not going to dump another equal amount of funds just to try it in another direction. Especially since the demographic who were watching the show weren’t LITTLE girls, they were people who could most likely view the commercials and marketing with a more gender-neutral eye and could afford to get the merchandise on their own. So all the toy and merch companies were seeing their target demographic not buying toys and merch, and the demographic the show appealed to more not buying toys and merch, and they decided to pull out and cut their losses.
tbh, this is probably exactly what happened to Ultra Car too.
Also, I get what people are saying about Walky and his “man child geek boy” routine and why they’re tired of it, but like…that’s kind of insulting? I’m a grown ass woman and I get into just as heated debates about things that are important to me–comics, video games, cartoons, etc–as Walky does. Dotty is being a bit of a dick for dismissing something Walky so clearly feels deeply about (and, honestly, who’s to say he won’t go into cartoons for a career? Or writing?), and excusing it as her being the “mature” one who is done babying her manchild boyfriend is super, super insulting. And dismissive of Carla, who is not in anyway a man or a geeky manchild, but who got equally as into the debate.
ALSO, friendly reminder that just because Carla and Dotty both think that Ultra Car is “smarter” doesn’t mean it is? Dotty’s “maturity” doesn’t mean she has good taste in media. Or that she knows what the hell she’s talking about. Since we never actually see either show, I think it’s just as safe to assume that maybe BOTH shows are equally as smart, they just appeal to different types of people more.
Oh my jesus, the way people bend over backwards to try to protect Wally is so incredibly old.
Not knowing about Young Justice, I don’t care. I am a hermit, I am generally off in my own place. But I will say: Just because ‘business does not work like that’ does not mean it is correct. They know they have a captive audience. They know that audience buys things. And I have alllll the skepticism that the toy marketting was ‘gender neutral’. To be fair, I somewhat shudder to think of what they would have come up with instead, or more likely, licensed out.
Personally, I couldn’t care less whether your arguments are heated. Do you get into it and start denying the identity of people who can least afford it? Get into arguments about what you like better, idgaf. But taking the extra time to shit on things other people like for no god damned reason? That’s different. The fact that people keep insisting that’s just arguing about what you like is more than a little obnoxious.
If Dotty thinks it’s dumb to argue about cartoons in general (Unlikely – she’s done it, and seems on board with Leslie doing it), that can be on her. But given that she’s finally deploying it /when her SO is being a dick/, she’s probably more dismissing /the way/ he’s doing this. And because he’s being a dick, she /should/ (Or at least, she shouldn’t try to pretend its okay, even if she’s unwilling to expend the energy to say he’s wrong)
Also, uh, lol. Are we really going to assume Wally is right about which show is smarter when his argument relied on Fart Jokes (Yes, I bloody well know the Bard relied on them. I’ve said repeatedly that cutting them in adaptations is probably what makes him spin in his grave fastest) is.. pretty… well it’s something. Why the fuck are we going out of our way to assume he’s right about what’s smarter? Putting aside that Dotty has shown better taste than Wally, /she’s also the one going against her actual favorite/. Dotty likes DatMM better. If you’re going to slam her for her taste in fictional cartoons, shouldn’t it be, yanno, /that/? Ceerikes.
Well DUH. Look how much more choppy and primitive the graphics and rendering were in Beast Wars. That’s the only indication of quality you need right there.
…or the fact that one told a cohesive and nuanced story that explored themes of spiritual awakening, corruption, extremism, and jingoism and characters that constantly explored their own senses of morality as well as grew and changed. Even good characters *le gasp* turning evil for ideological reasons.
…but no. That doesn’t matter. They toy’s are different than in the show.
I’m flattered, Grav Roulette. Truly, I am. And there are aspects of Jocelyne I relate to — being a writer, her ability to come up with wicked plans, her being a wise dispenser of knowledge and holder of secrets. And not just in-the-closet secrets, but “I’m like an iceberg of knowledge, I know ten times more than the knowledge you see, and I’ll share if you ask but if it doesn’t come up it doesn’t come up.”
… well I can DREAM of being that kind of knowledgeable, right?
So, yes, Grav Roulette, I am flattered. Appreciative. Even tempted It’s not a BAD fit. But much of her defining life statuses and the impact upon how she interacts with the world — being closeted, not being in a place where she can be openly authentic and even confrontational — do not fit me at all. It’s not her fault, it’s not mine, but it’s a mismatch. And there are others who are so much more suited to her, and who she represents so much better, and for me to claim her or even share her with them would be to cheapen that connection they have with her.
And so, with some regrets and as much class as I can muster, I shall see through tonight’s date with the elder Brown sister, and then say adieu and bon chance and continue with my grav roulette search.
…..
(I am feeling SO pretentious tonight, and it is awesome.)
Also, I’m loving your elaborate posts justifying spinning the roulette again each time as they are nice little character deconstructions as well as hella witty.
Exactly. Commerce is about making what people want and offering it to them, storytelling is said to be about leaving people wanting more. The motives inherently clash.
And works that are more likely to be resonant to say, women who like to deconstruct gender norms, are not necessarily going to be things that have a lot of marketing muscle behind them trying to drive success and may even be sabotaged at both the highest level and the lowest level.
How reflexive must your hatred of hipsters be that you assume someone is actually being motivated primarily by the commercial failure part? With fictional characters and a fictional show, at that?
Also, popularity is by no means of the imagination a guarantor of a show’s cleverness, anymore than it’s an indicator that it isn’t. I mean ffs, Dotty even thinks DatMM was smart. Just, less so.
Yes, that’s why Carla picked out this show specifically because it didn’t have toys or a larger, more established fanbase, and why she took pleasure from that fact.
. . . Huh. Hang on one moment. THat doesn’t describe why she loves the show at all.
As in don’t take a hashtag dedicated to a movement being used people being gunned down on a daily basis and try to turn it into a joke. Not fucking funny.
Well one show being smarter than the other doesn’t automatically make it Superior it’s just one advantage it has over the other. It’s like if we compared Steven Universe to Adventure Time now a days. Sure Adventure time has its ups and downs but there are still plenty of episodes you can watch well have you engaged or mildly entertained at best. Though now a days it will sometimes give you episodes were some of the writers are trying their damn near hardest to try to be artsy and make episodes that are smart but also so overly complicated and highly elaborate that they loose most of their audience try to convey what ever message they were trying to convey, and that goose for both the child and adult audience alike.
Then you got Steven universe, a show that might be slightly over hyped due to its fan base putting it on a pedestal but still has a lot of merits to be admired. The shows overall idea brings episodes that are also somewhat complicated in intelligence, witt, and relatable emotion; but at the same time it can be clear and coherent enough to convey itself to its audience without being lost in thought and on top of that it still also doesn’t give up leaving its other goal to entertain to achieve that unlike some of the recent Adventure Time.
Now I’m not saying you should dumb down the message of story just to appeal to a certain audience because I think a clever story can be appreciated no matter what age you are, I just think that having something to your series that has better quality to it than most other stories might good but that doesn’t determine weather it’s Superior to another. Especially if the other has overall better quality in certain other fields….but then again I guess the real deciding factor is really taste in what you prefer.
Not to mention that a show being “smarter” might mean sacrificing accessibility and other things that matter.
I love Serial Experiments Lain, but that’s not gonna be something people can just relaxingly ease into after a long day. Nor should they necessarily feel they have to.*
*And since nerd culture is what it is, I also don’t think liking “smarter” or more niche work actually makes you more intelligent or interesting. Something can be both popular and enjoyable and personally, it’s pretty awesome when something I like is also popular enough to be a common point of conversation and reference with a general population.
Serial Experiments Lain is one of those anime that the first two times I saw it, I didn’t get it at all, and I came away with a sense of, “Man I do not get what all the fuss is about on that one.”
… then I re-watched it in my mid-20s and suddenly it clicked. I had an, “Oooooh, I get it now!” moment.
…. but yeah it’s definitely not a show you relax into after a busy day. It’s more one you devote a day off to watching so you can pay your full attention to it like it deserves.
(as opposed to The Legend of Korra, which is totally something you can relax into even if it deals with heavier stuff – I am not going to totally lose the plot if I get distracted for a minute or two like I will with Lain)
It also serves as a reminder that “smarter” shows can sometimes be literally inaccessible. I was thinking of showing my gf Lain, but she’s visually impaired and a lot of things in Lain are communicated with visuals, so she literally can’t access the show in the same way I can because of disability.
And that tends to be a common thing in a lot of “smarter” shows. That they take full advantage of their medium, which means that those who can’t access the full aspect of the medium can be left in the cold.
I am kind of weird in that in order for me to absorb content, I need subtitles or closed captioning – otherwise I can’t absorb or retain the information.
In retrospect, this might be why the first two attempts at Lain didn’t stick for me – dialog subtleties matter in it, unlike in a simpler show like Avatar: The Last Airbender. I can’t access media with subtle audio parts unless I’ve got subs.
The way the conversation has flowed the last few days to make it abundantly clear that Wally must be right at each step of the way is a little comical.
But, because ‘zomg my entertainment is smaaaaaaaaart’ is a thing that needs to die in a ditch if entertainment nerds are to move on as a people, yes. There are a lot of ways for a show to be good. Cleverness is one way, but there are others. You can show character drama well, you can engage in engrossing world building, you can be funny, you can have amazing production values, provide fertile ground for fanwork, provide subversive and important messages for kids, or otherwise pull off any of a dozen other fragments that make up a work, well. There’s a lot of value in any step, people can favor what they want. It can be important to recognize limitations as well.
Yeah, one of the interestingly ignored aspects of nerd culture is how “intelligence” is sometimes used as a cudgel just as toxic as obsessing about how many girls you bang dispassionately or how little you can care about the plight of other people.
Specifically, I’m talking about how places like Silicon Valley are filled with a weird nerd culture belief that being “super smart” somehow buys you out of being sexist, racist, or homophobic and having expertise in one field somehow means you must be the smartest person on every field everywhere and your solutions will single-handedly save the world if only your genius was recognized.
And at even more toxic levels, how it is used as a means of justifying sexism and racism by deeming women or racial minorities as somehow inherently less “intelligent” and somehow more savage and animal-like (often with a dash of and therefore I deserve to win over them financially and be awarded the prize of a pliant wife or a marginalized-person-free fandom).
This doesn’t mean the whole thing is toxic, but that it can be used as a nasty cudgel and the behaviors of using it as a nasty cudgel are frequently promoted on the internet in harmful ways to others. Not to mention society destroying “innovations” which are basically just fancy ways of saying “fuck you, I got mine and I deserve my permanent serf underclass in return”.
Panel 1: That hurt in his eyes. He’s misinterpreting what she said, but his feelings are real and as much as he pretended to not understand Carla’s point from earlier, he still has his own deep connection to a work that served as a key part of his childhood.
And I think the “our” is a big part of that. Others have noted (and I’m sorry, but I forget who at the moment) that Walky views MM&D as a thing he shares with people close to him. He shared it with his sister. He tried to share it with Billie and he had a big elaborate plan on how to convert his future gf or future Gary into a diehard MM&D fan so he could share it with her.
To him, that’s what’s at the corner piece of the show, so part of his hurt here that he should actually talk about, oh my bob* is that he doesn’t want to feel alone with his show again.
*The way young men are socialized to never show vulnerability or talk out their feelings in a healthy way really fucking sucks and seems to be a major source of frustration for friends who have partners who are cis men… (not to mention a likely source for depressed men avoiding seeking out support when they are in crisis) 🙁
Panel 2: And that’s an important distinction laid down nicely. You can tell by her eyebrows that she’s a little annoyed here, but cares deeply about not hurting his feelings, but she’s also not going to let herself be spun into the bad guy for refusing to be dragged into a nerd fight.
Panel 3: I’ve noted it above, but damn do I love that he actually recognizes his bad behavior here even as he is in the process of defensively doubling down. Cause it’s a sign that he can really improve as a person simply by taking that recognition into action.
And that second line. Ugh, I’m not a fan of this type of construction in relationships, because that whole “back me up no matter what or you’re against me” is just so wrapped into social pressure. I dunno, I actually have especially negative reactions to it, because of former relationship stuff involving some gaslighting framed in a similar “why won’t you side with me” style.
And I also see it too often in friends’ relationships with super douchey or abusive guys where they try and leverage “don’t make me look bad” in public to belittle their partners for having their own differing opinions. (Definitely not saying that Walky is doing that, just noting where I personally feel intense glarey feelings towards that construction because of lived experiences).
Panel 4: Soft, rarely spoken first name in a non-trans context… that’s never a good thing and always means that what comes next is intended as a serious and important statement that needs to be heard.
Panel 5: Dorothy devotes a lot of tact here. Bringing this up when they are alone rather than outside during the argument, being very careful to highlight the importance MM&D and Walky himself have to her.
But she’s also not gonna snow him. This is how she feels about it and she probably recognized that a big reason MM&D took off and Ultra Car floundered is that the former was seen as marketing to boys and thus was more backed and advertised. And that’s such a common experience for girl fans of things, to see what you love mistreated, ill-supported, and treated as garbage that it’s not something Dorothy was going to ignore or left unsaid, especially as he seemed oblivious to how much he was using how wrapped up in winning the nerd fight that he was ignoring what Carla was actually saying.
Panel 6: Oh, Walky… you danged idjit. I know, it makes sense for him to be hurt, he wears his ego on his sleeve and he’s not used to being called out for things in this particular way.
And his lack of self-awareness here is staggering, continuing to try and cling to this misinterpretation that because she liked another cartoon or thought it was smarter even though “their” cartoon has more personal resonance, in order to justify his hurt feelings. And it’s one of those moments where Walky is just kinda being a bit of a git.
Because the unstated undercurrent in Panel 5 is that when Walky was shitting on Ultra Car for being unpopular and being cancelled and so on, he was shitting on something Dorothy actually liked as well and which she was aware had been cancelled for likely sexist reasons.
Not to mention that she’s a feminist whose favorite movie is Persepolis. She’s used to things she loves being found really off-the-beaten track and not getting the same wide release as something intended to market to the coveted 15-20 boy demographic.
So for him, after having down this accidental dismissal to two separate people in one instance, to pretend it is him who is the victim of this is kinda rich and kinda super annoying.
I dunno, given events of the last few years, I’m especially low on sympathy for overgrown man babies that treat light gentle nuanced critique from a feminist lens as some personal attack on all they hold dear.
I sympathize with Walky, but mostly in a “oh you poor little thing why’d you have to go swimming in the deep end of the pool” sort of way. I’m laughing, but it’s a sympathetic “I’ve been there and I relate even if I’ve grown out of it” sort of laugh.
If Walky had a lot more emotional power in this relationship, I’d be worried. He doesn’t and he’s harmless. As is, I’m expecting either a clear conversation with him being hurt for a bit, or a harmless temper tantrum over the next 24 hours which she’ll deal with maturely, or a breakup that she’ll deal with equally maturely. (Though I think she’ll have earned the right to a few minutes of self-indulgent angst, if she wants.)
What I’m wondering about is why D&MM holds a closer place in Dorothy’s heart. Is it that she didn’t recognize its value at the time, but came back later in life and saw it more clearly through more mature eyes? Is it that it has qualities other than smartness that appeal to her? (Not at ALL a metaphor for her relationship with Walky, nope, nope, nope.) Is it that it was a point for bonding with friends, that she valued at the time for the relationships it helped strengthen and later for the memories it brings?
I would agree. He’s annoying, but he doesn’t have his teeth in like some of the more aggressive forms of nerds who are men. So I’m not at all worrying about Dorothy’s safety here, more just shaking my head going, oh, Walky, no…
On, D&MM’s impact on Dorothy, she’s hinted at pieces before:
It seems like it’s part a connection to a childhood nostalgia as well as a tool she can use to turn off her over-working brain and just veg out to. Plus, there’s some regrets that she’s been forcing herself to be the super adult super early to meet her dreams and she might partially regret not fully letting herself be a kid longer or letting herself just enjoy silly things without worrying about potential future consequences when running for president (see her worries about enjoying her sexuality more openly).
I feel bad for Walky right now – mainly because I totally recognize that place of “I know that I am not reacting to this in an emotionally mature manner but I have no skills for reacting in an emotionally mature way and besides, I’m pissed off dammit!”
The biggest thing I would recommend for folks in Walky’s shoes is learn when you need to take a break or a step back from a conversation. If you catch yourself about to say something nasty, or you’re biting back acid words, that’s a good sign you’re about to lose it and you’re running on empty in the temper-control gas tank. If you blow up, it will do more damage than good the vast majority of the time (like, at least 98% of the time). Instead of blowing up, say something like, “I need to take a break because I’m not able to process this rationally right now. Can we come back to it when I’ve had a bit of time to calm down?”
And then leave, and go for a walk. Walk for at least a half hour or longer – until you no longer feel angry words in your head and are able to try to take the perspective of the other person. Try to figure out where you might be misunderstanding where the other person is coming from and where they might be misunderstanding you. Most of the time, if both parties are reasonable people* and you’re talking about something that matters, arguments arise from misunderstanding what the other person is saying and/or where they’re coming from, not necessarily from some fundamental mismatch in beliefs or opinions.**
Then you can go back and re-start the discussion with a cooler head and hopefully a fresh perspective.
*a big assumption in some cases, I admit
** Exception being in religious arguments or when dealing with a bigot. In which case my advice is don’t waste your time trying to find a point of agreement. Instead, tell them that you don’t think there’s any point in continuing the conversation as all it’s going to do is get you both (more) pissed off, state that you both have irreconcilable differences on that point, and leave it at that. Unless the conversation in question is a deal-breaker for you in which case feel free to end the relationship. Which I’ve only had to do a couple times but yeah. I don’t like ultimatums on principle, but some things genuinely are deal-breakers for me – and naked bigotry is one of them. I don’t issue an ultimatum unless I’m willing to follow through on it – and typically only after I’ve tried and failed with more gentle forms of correction.
That’s all very good advice, but I’d add two more things to it.
1) Stop investing yourself and your self esteem in having people agree with you. Recognize that apathy, dislike, and even disdain for the things you love is not aimed at YOU, but rather one particular thing you like. People have different tastes and you should let them have them without charging to attack them for the differences.
I think part of this fear (for me, at least, before I learned to defuse it) was that for a while during my formative years I perceived myself as an out-group person. Yeah, I’m white and male and from a reasonably prosperous background, but I was a geek and nerd and didn’t make friends easy and wasn’t into the cool fads of the moment, so I felt persecuted even if relatively speaking I had it easy and even if much of it was just in my own mind, and I was far from aware of the far harder stuff that other groups were going through. I was constantly worried about receiving this sort of criticism about things I liked, and perceived this as linked to my own quality and worth as a person. Thus I was quick to equate attacks against my interests with attacks against myself and was quick to “counterattack” (even if I’d never been attacked at all), sometimes becoming the very type of assailant I was afraid of. Making the disconnect, divorcing my conception of self from my fandoms, brought me huge emotional stability, helped me engage in genuine relationships, and removed much of that fear.
Walky, obviously, has serious fandom issues. It’s complicated because D+MM HAS played a huge role in his relationship with Dorothy, but that objectivity would serve him very well in this moment.
2) Learning to empathize. Empathy doesn’t come naturally to me. I’m an introvert with social anxiety issues, and my immediate gut reaction to other people is along the lines of “go away” or “I’m happier on my own” or “you’re invading my space” and above all “this person is a threat to me”. While I’m capable of empathizing (sometimes too strongly… I don’t keep my own emotions too well when other people are in pain), for a while in my life that fear reaction tended to override that.
What really helped me was writing (fiction) and role-playing games. This forced me to learn the skill of getting into the head of someone other than me, even if it is a fictional character, understanding their motives and world view and how all of this shapes what’s going on in their head, and do it in an intellectual level that my emotions weren’t ready to match. Obviously I wouldn’t magically know what was going on in the heads of the people around me, but the question became interesting and I started getting focused on trying to comprehend where other people were coming from, rather than just hoping they’d leave me alone and erecting defensive barriers to keep them at a distance.
Walky has serious empathy problems that derive less from an inability to relate to or apathy towards other peoples’ feels, and more from being too caught up in himself to notice them. He’s got a very solo “my problems are mine and yours are yours so let’s all mind our own business” attitude, and his approach to his own issues is to either lay them off as a joke or bottle them up and never let anyone see them ever. I don’t know what motivates him in that… I’d guess he’s got some social model of coolness he’s trying to conform to. For me, it was a more basic fear response. Cultivating a bit of empathy let me stop regarding people as deliberately and automatically out to find an opening to hurt me and instead see them as just… well, people. That was a huge step for me being able to openly acknowledge shortcomings to others, which in turn was an essential part in overcoming them. … you know, the ones I’ve actually managed to overcome. It’s one of Walky’s major obstacles to growth, on any subject.
Now that I think of it, that MIGHT be a good attitude to have if Mike is your roommate. He might not be the sort of person to divulge sensitive secrets to. On the other hand… Ethan’s openness with Mike makes a certain amount of sense to me, because the alternative of not sharing is insidiously cowardly. In the sense of you learn to fear and you let the fear take over.
The contrast between Walky and Dorothy on this subject (and I might be projecting more than is actually there) is stark and almost painful. Dorothy’s openness and honesty is awesome, and…. kinda alien and intimidating to me. Like, no way I could ever see myself being that perfectly authentic.
1 and 2 are both important, yes. 1 didn’t occur to me because genuinely speaking I’ve never been someone who likes what it’s expected of me to like so that ship sailed when I was like four but it is a good thing to point out, and 2 I didn’t mention because autistic and cognitive empathy is hard in real time. Actually, it’s hard after the fact, too, but it’s damn near impossible in real time. Which is part of why I advocate getting space and time for a breather – space and time allows me to try to cognitive empathy.
A crestfallen Walky, his head hung low, slowly walked from the room.
He walked on, with unseeing eyes, his feet moving one in front of the other, until he was outside the building, then off the campus, then outside town.
He continued to walk until he reached the edge of a great ocean.
And then he walked on still, until he disappeared beneath the breaking waves, never to be seen again.
Smart and successful are not the same thing. A cerebral film may be smarter than an action movie, that doesn’t mean the cerebral film is worse than the action movie just because it didn’t gross as much. A film may be more emotional, push more and different buttons than an action film, but just because it grossed less doesn’t mean it’s not worth anything.
Tastes are subjective and depending on what you like and what resonates with you, you can end up liking vastly different works for vastly different reasons or find one work most people shrug at extremely important and groundbreaking.
On the other hand, a cerebral film isn’t necessarily better either. Things can be dumb fun and still really good. Something can be smart and still not good.
I too, have a borderline irrational dislike of people, particularly men, who act infantile. It just places an undue burden on the other person to tip toe around their wants and needs and feelings. I still don’t see how a simple conversation turned into a thing – perhaps Walky is afraid that Dorothy doesn’t take home seriously as a person? Maybe he doesn’t see a connection between the way he acts and the way people perceive him? Maybe it’s as simple as they’re young, barely out of teen years and everything in relationships is a big deal at that point. And he’s perfectly aware her- he just wants to get into it, but doesn’t want to really get into it, y’know what I mean?
I’ll preface this by saying I’m playing devil’s advocate here.
Its unnecessary for Dorothy to like everything Walky likes, and she doesn’t need to take his side all the time for him to feel secure in their relationship. But, I find that although Walky is definitely being insensitive here, it goes both ways. There are perfectly respectable men who read comics and play video games. If he respects Dorothy’s aspirations, Dorothy needs to respect Walkys ways of life – I mean to the extent that they don’t harm anyone, that is. She should indeed call him out on his crap, but over the course of the comic I’ve been getting the sense that she either didn’t realize who he is completely and she’s been getting more than someone to screw around with till she transfers – which complicates the end game.
Or that she’s been trying to fix him.. I may be off base with this. If she isn’t going to be with him much longer, why is she so invested in the way he acts? Or how he dresses? Walky was already feeling insecure, but her (normal, but to Walky high because he feels intimidated by her- again, his problem) expectations seem to make Walky feel inadequate. Add to that that Walky might like the Monkey show, but it could also be that he too used the show as a way to get away from his own shitty stuff, even though he won’t put it in so many words. It might not be a (valid) thesis paper of a reason, but simply having something to enjoy is also a form of escapism as well.
I think this relationship could actually make them both grow as characters. Walky in particular may realize becoming more mature will help in all realms of life, especially his relationships. Dorothy realizes that to get to where she needs to go, she’ll inevitably be constantly thinking about who she associates with, how they make her look, and be willing to leave them behind to get ahead, more than she might be comfortable with- which inevitably results in some bridges getting burned rather than crossed.
I find Walky annoying pretty often definitely, but Dorothy’s interactions with him also rub me the wrong way for some reason, sometimes. Maybe I think theyre not that great together. And lm sure she didn’t mean it like that, but calling someone by their first name in that manner, unless you are their parent is terribly condescending.
Honestly, I think Walky’s reflexive defensiveness about his fragile ego and weird definitions of what it means to be a man is a major flaw that he needs to overcome and that this is similar to how Dorothy needs to overcome her impulse that just because she tends to be the more “mature” person in a relationship and there’s strong social pressure on girlfriends to be “mothers” to more immature boyfriends, she shouldn’t actually be trying to mother her boyfriends or feel like it is on her personally to improve them as people.
In that way, they might be exactly what each other needs now, but not at all for very long. Like, Walky has on several occasions rebuffed and called out Dorothy for being overly hovery and intrusive into his life and his choices in ways that have got her to stop and examine herself.
And Dorothy has countered some of Walky’s more egregious examples of aggressive manchildosity and his attempts to demand a very limited and specific type of “support”.
But yeah, in the long run it is good they have a planned expiration date, because it should definitely not be on either of them to solve each other’s flaws and aspects of each of them set off some of their behaviors in the first place (Walky being so defensive about seeking out help encourages Dorothy to feel like it’s on her to baby him, especially when his parents are encouraging her to fit that role. And Dorothy getting meddly tends to set off Walky’s reflexive independent streak in ways that can block him seeking help when he genuinely needs it.
It’s honestly, kinda super interesting to analyze from the outside.
I agree- and that’s the way I’d put it- it’s like she’s mothering him but she ought not to be, because it’s Walky s job to grow up and that is so much unnecessary and taxing emotional work, from a feminist perspective.
Something that everyone has to learn at some point is that the things we like, and even the things we believe, aren’t the same as who we are.
And that it is possible to talk about and criticize the former without it being an attack on the latter.
So if Walky and Dorothy break up at some point, all of the Dumbing of Age Slipshine comics will be of people who are no longer together… is being Slipshine’d a curse?
Danny and Amber are definitely permanently done, but I’m not convinced Billie and Ruth are over, much to my consternation. Billie just kind of angrily tells Ruth to fuck off because Ruth’s being a jerkass, while Danny basically soliloquizes at length about what he wanted from the relationship and how it all went down. There’s way more finality with the way Danny/Amber ended than with Billie/Ruth.
Of course, Ruth and Billie need to end someday, partly because it’s a theoretically endless narrative so every couple has to end at some point with the arguable exception of Becky/Dina, partly because Billie and Ruth can never really get healthy because then they stop being Billie and Ruth, and partly because I need Ruth/Carla to happen.
Ruth as she is now definitely can’t be in a relationship healthily, no. Billie or not.
I mean, I prefer Ruth/Billie, but knock yourself out, it’s all good (I’m holding out for Carla/Sal). Ruth and Billie have been over like twice already, so at this point I’m actually in need of fireworks or something to believe it’s done, personally. Heck, this one looks less done than either of the first two.
Maybe I’m just officially Old now, but cartoons are not worth getting this upset about. Watch what you like, buy the DVDs you want, but don’t go picking fights with people because their tastes differ from yours.
I think it’s more a “type of person” issue rather than a “X isn’t worth getting this upset about”. Whatever the topic, whether it’s cartoons or sports or religion or politics or video games, there seems to be a minority who’s way, WAY too quick to take up arms to defend any insults, no matter slight, against their chosen passion. And they’ll take it to ridiculous lengths too, from sports fan who’ll riot and burn cars when their team loses, to the Gamergate brouhaha, to people like the Westboro Baptist Church.
“Haha, just kidding Walky … they’re both mind-bendingly stupid, and seriously, what point would there be to trying to decide which is more mind-bendingly stupid? It would be like grading untreated sewer outflow…”
Walky… she’s not even insulting it. She’s just saying that something else may have been better in some ways even if she still really likes Monkey Master. I mean I guess since you think UltraCar is trash you’ve completely jumped the gun but…
Like just because you don’t like something doesn’t make something bad. Just because you like something doesn’t mean it is the bastion of perfection for all media to follow. Everything has failings or caters to different tastes than yours.
Like it’s like- I really like Harry Potter- it’s an important part of my childhood, but it’s far from a perfect book series. The last book is pretty much an utter snorefest for instance with purple prose out the wazoo. And I’m pretty sure when Dorothy decided to keep quiet about Amazigirls identity she talking about a season she didn’t like? I think Dotty can like something and be aware of certain failings or things other franchises did better.
HP is important to me. But it’s far from perfect and there are /far/ better series out there.
Like people have different tastes man. You like Monkey Master only between the two, Carla likes Ultracar only and Dorothy likes both and possibly even likes your show for slightly different reasons than you do. Deal. I’m sure there’s someone who dislikes both out there but just don’t choose to voice it loudly unless you were especially obnoxious about it. (And you kind of usually are Walky with your nerd dick measuring contesting even before you and Dotty got together so… perhaps someone like Carla was inevitable for you).
All the this. And yeah, I think him bumping into a Carla was inevitable because Dorothy straight up notes that he’s been doing this nerd dick measuring contest thing and insulting things that are super personal for people for awhile now.
And he’s encountered a number of people hurt by that or who’ve swallowed it and bit their tongue and he’s even been called out once or twice, but it was only a matter of time before the way he’s put his ego in fighting people over not cottoning to his particular views on the world was going to lead to a full-on knockdown drag-out argument like it did with Carla.
And if he doesn’t learn from it, he’s going to continue to stumble into moments like that and alienate a fair few people along the way.
Walky is going to have a hard time in the real world if he can’t learn to accept that other people’s opinions are equally valid (even if hearing them reduces him to a toddler).
BTW, I don’t think anyone’s said this yet, but I love the element of callback in Walky’s Panel 6 face.
His mouth is the same mouth as Carla is sporting here. That’s a murderin’ mouth. Well… not exactly, but that’s a “I have beheld the abomination, and instantly I summoned unto me all the Furies of the world that I might smite it down lo before it took one more step.”
But Walky isn’t feeling that. The eyes don’t lie, and his eyes say his mouth-expression is complete bunk.
I think he was being honest when he says the fart jokes and the cultural memes resonated strongly with him and that’s what makes it awesome for him. And that’s fair. People are allowed to like work with more body function humor and references and think that’s what makes a work great.
But it does mean that a work that tries to avoid that humor might not really work for him and things like thinking deeply about gender and the like are things he actively avoids doing, so yeah, if he was forced to watch it, he would probably absolutely hate it and think it was boring and annoying.
1. I’m conflicted.
On one side, I agree with Dotty’s assessment of the situation. The fight about the cartoons did seem to be a little out of hand, considering how it went.
On the other, THOSE PUPPY EYES AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHH
…
2. This will only end one of two ways:
a.) They will break up.
b.) They will have sex.
I’m not sure which to root for at this point.
We, the Hug Police, are a national security force
Working directly for the government!
The Hug Police, lurking in the darkness,
Oversees and controls all of the spying!
From morning to night, we will keep our watch on you!
#3 shows Walky’s self-aware he is being irrational. He is smart enough to know when he isn’t being smart.
This isn’t a breakup situation, this is a Walky enjoys arguing over cartoons situation.
Yeah, which is why I think Dorothy’s rebuffing here is necessary because it’s important that Walky knows that Dorothy, in general in the relationship, will support him and talk him up and cares deeply about him, but she’s not really the type of person who’ll just take his side no matter how she feels just because they’re dating.
And it’s kind of important for Walky to know that now so this doesn’t raise up in something far more important and genuinely relationship-threatening.
I’m not one to get into comparing texts for the purpose of ranking*. It’s just not my thing really. With that disclaimer, using the term “smart” seems like a poor stand in for something more specific that the person is failing to capture accurately. I can definitely see why that descriptor would be important to Dorothy, Carla and Walky, but it leaves me pretty cool on them.
*Comparing texts to see how they deal with certain ideas or concepts of that is up my alley, I more mean directly comparing the entirety of works.
Loading ...
Oh, this does not portend well…
And it looks like their cartoon-based relationship is headed for a cartoon-based breakup…
Don’t worry, Walky. Joyce supports your cartoon choices, and at this point the last thing she wants is for you to grow as a person… ^_^
Where is this breakup talk coming from? It’s not like the show was the basis of their relationship or anything.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic there, but anyway … this relationship has always been at risk of breaking over their difference in maturity, and that issue is now coming to a head.
How is it coming to a head? They’re having a disagreement (I wouldn’t even call it an argument) and every relationship has disagreements. It’s how they handle it that’ll determine if they can stay together.
I think the point is that immature people often break up with people over disagreements.
It’s the expiration date that dooms this relationship. Minor disagreements won’t change Walky’s realization that he can’t fail upwards from here nor will it change Dorothy’s admiration for his caramel bod and lovable quirky personality.
I can’t understand why some people feel that every minor bump in a relationship marks the end of the line. If disagreements and differences in maturity dooms a couple to break up, then my wife, the love of my life, and I (after being married longer then some of you have existed) are doomed doomed doomed. (She’s the mature one, if there was any doubt.)
Yeah the two of them don’t have a relationship that’s going to survive long term, but I’m fairly confident it’s not breaking apart over this.
Does the expiration date have something to do with Dorothy’s desire to transfer? Because she’s definitely not good enough for anywhere decent if this was the best she could do
And, as someone with personal experience pointed out in the comments a few months ago, you have to be ten times as good to transfer into Yale as to get in in the first place.
Well, all right, I guess it’s not coming to a head yet. But, given what Walky has been hiding from Dorothy, and her awareness that he had something on his mind, I suspect DW is planning to have Dorothy find out about his math grades soon. (I will skip the prospect of Walky getting tutoring and bringing his grades up, because he’s Walky.)
Now, Dorothy enjoys having an irresponsible guy who keeps things uncomplicated. She said so. But there’s harmless irresponsibility, and then there’s failing at math and not doing anything about it. She won’t let that slide.
Worse, he’s been lying to her about it. Saying that everything’s fine. Saying that the problem on his mind is something else. Dorothy’s no dummy. When she finds out about the math, it will be obvious that he’s been hiding it from her, and it won’t take her long to remember those conversations. And then she will really blow up at him — and that’s when Walky’s immaturity will come to the fore, and instead of admitting he fucked up and asking forgiveness and making amends, he will angrily storm off, and their relationship will be in major trouble.
Now, given the kind of comic this is, I think DW will eventually have them make up. But it’s going to be stormy weather for a while.
The “Walky…David.” bit just seems unusually ominous.
Foreshadow-y!
Breaking up over a cartoon?….I guess that’s…..plausible?
I’m sure someone somewhere has broken up over stupider things…
I mean I’m a huge cartoon fan so I get how the right cartoon at the right time can mean a lot, especially during those young formative years. That being said, breaking up with someone you’ve formed a connection with because they think one cartoon is slightly better than another? That’s a big leap to make.
Walky is kind of an odd, sensitive, VERY particular soul, though.
Anything could happen.
I’m just glad my wife of 35 years likes Star Trek, so I don’t have to test that theory…
They initially broke up over pajama jeans, so…
Don’t think they will actually split up here. I think this is just bringing Walky back down to Earth, but it’s entirely possible given previous history and Walky’s response to having his ego bruised.
Dang it, missed butts comment. Sorry butts.
haha ‘butts’
butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts
butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts
@Cerberus, isn’t that a bit of an oversimplification? They broke up because Dotty was trying to change Walky, and Walky didn’t like it.
I was thinking more inciting incident rather than reason as if they broke up here, it wouldn’t actually be about the cartoon, the cartoon would just be the thing that precipitated some conflict.
But yeah, that earlier breakup is a bit complex, because to Walky it was about his gf not supporting him in the way he felt he deserved and like she was trying to control him or deny him something he wanted to do. And to Dorothy, it was about Walky having little regard towards trying to look attractive for her and treating a minor incident as some direct attack on his fundamental character.
So… not unlike this incident in many ways.
It wasn’t that she didn’t support, him, though. She was giving him orders about what he was allowed to wear. I think she even gave the ultimatum.
Walky… walked. And I really think it was the more mature behavior of the two. Odd, given that the inciting incident definitely did not involve Walky being the more mature.
Well, the last time they broke up was over pajama jeans… so I think, if they break up over this, then they’re actually making progress.
My ex-girlfriend broke up with me because I was bummed because I missed her (there was a lot going on and we didn’t see or talk to each other much), and my being bummed bummed her out…so yeah…
No less implausible than hooking up over that cartoon.
I mean, what have they broken up over so far?
Pajama jeans.
And running in the morning.
Breaking up over a cartoon seems perfectly reasonable.
I mean, their relationship already has an expiration date, anyway…
All relationships have an expiration date. Just because theirs will be a little sooner doesn’t mean it’s necessarily any less serious (despite what Dorothy wanted in the first place).
it doesn’t matter that the relations “fake” (for fun. however you want put it) when the emotions are real.
considering this is a comic strip it seems downright sensible
Nah, this is PERSONAL GROWTH time!
walky u gotta calm tf down about this
Srsly.
I mean, I don’t know if there’s some super important reason that he loves this show, but so far, it looks like he’s getting really bent out of shape because he prefers the fart episode.
He’s got a history of this, it seems. Back when he was showing the show to Dorothy he was kind of an asshole about her talking over it.
He’s just a manchild, and Dorothy should really realize that soon. Its weirdly counterproductive to her “have an emotionally unattached fling before SUPER-COLLEGE” plan.
I think Dorothy is aware of his manchildish state, and it makes him seem an even better refuge from her Real Life of Great Achievements. She puts enough pressure on herself, it’s nice to have a low-key person with whom she can just relax towards simpler modes of thinking. (She really wasn’t counting on falling in love with him, but hey, whatcha gonna do.)
Unrelated, I just realized how fucked it is that Dorothy dumped Danny partially due to him lacking ambitions… And then started to date WALKY.
Lack of ambitions *beyond dating Dorothy*. Walky’s got no real-world ambitions, but he also doesn’t plan on just hanging off Dorothy like a big lump for the rest of his life, which is where Danny was headed.
I raged about this literally ages ago. Danny was there for her as a loyal, nice guy that can actually work his way through college, unlike Walky. He was ready to be next to Dorothy whatever she does. But then she dumped him because “he wasn’t ambitious enough”, then right after that she starts fucking an immature kid “for fun”. This woman, seriously.
Uh…Walky isn’t a “manchild’. He’s a freshman in college. A freshman in the first semester of college. He’s still a teenager. He can’t legally drink. He probably can’t even vote yet. He’s allowed to be upset at things like apparently totally misunderstanding something he thought he and his girlfriend share absolutely in common.
Also, it’s a little troubling that everyone’s immediately jumping to “wow lol how annoying of Walky” instead of “wow, Dotty’s being kind of pretentious about this.” So what if she thinks the argument is stupid? That doesn’t mean it is. Walky (AND Carla, again, she’s in this too and no one’s calling HER a child or immature) shouldn’t have chased her down, sure. I’ll agree with that. But for all we know, Walky’s passion for his favorite cartoon could lead to a career in the cartoon industry. Or not, because he’s clearly “mature, better-than-him” girlfriend thinks getting that passionate about cartoons is a waste of time.
Just, ugh. I do think they should break up. But they should break up because Dotty’s high horse is seriously bothering me. Who cares if she already knows what college she wants to go to, or what she wants to do with her life? She’s a jerk to her boyfriend.
^I mean, this coming from someone who is in tech/social media/gaming as a career path and who is constantly put down by people like Dotty who are too ~mature~ to care about things like this
I’m an animation major. I know how important cartoons are to some people.
Walky’s still a huge baby.
I think when you insist that someone else give their opinion on an argument they weren’t involved in and didn’t want anything to do with, and refuse to accept their first tactful response, they’re entitled to say the argument is stupid.
No, he is (IMO) absolutely acting even more immature than your average high school senior/college freshman. Including many of his peers, including the sheltered fundie girl. And has since his first appearance in this strip/setting. He’s 18 going on 8.
Except for those cases where he’s taken off the disguise and transforms into mature responsible mode – meeting Dorothy’s parents and apologizing to Carol for Mike on the phone while everyone else was paralyzed come to mind. Maybe his recent talk with Amazi-Girl too.
He just doesn’t like to do it and much of his privilege lies in him not having to. Being able to get by as a snarky, lazy goofball who puts in no effort. He doesn’t want to have to live up to his potential all the time, because that’s work.
Fair point.
The usual age for being a college freshman is 18, so he can probably vote (and Sal isn’t breaking any laws by smoking).
Though he’s probably not going to, unless Dorothy makes him. I mean, he’s Walky.
I really dislike it when people try to treat people in their late teens/early twenties as children. Sure, they are not full blown adults but at that age a certain level of reasonability can and should be expected. And Walky really fails to hit that level.
He did actually open up to Dorothy about this a bit early on. They were a thing he watched with Sal before she got taken away and then Billie got popular and he didn’t really have any friends so he watched them alone. Reading a bit between the lines there, the cartoon was important to him, and not just because he likes fart jokes.
It’s not as dramatic as Carla’s reasons, but it’s not irrelevant either. Of course, Ultra Car isn’t actually a better show because she couldn’t find a toy and her parents made her one, no matter how important that was to her.
has he made dexter and monkey master the center of his life?
All he needs are a few body pillows. With those, who needs Dorothy?
Isn’t it supposed to be a western cartoon, though?
Is that supposed to matter?…
I think the joke there is that often people will print pictures of characters from anime on body pillows, to fulfill the fantasy of ‘being with’ that particular character (also body pillows are comfy so why not have one with your favourite character on it?) But Dexter and Monkey Master is a Western cartoon and therefore has no body pillows (although I’d buy a Monkey Master body pillow)
If Walky wants a Dexter & Monkey Master body pillow, he can get one.
Never give up on your dreams.
Sacrebleu!
*pops monocle*
Meanwhile, over at Shortpacked!
So, I take it you don’t have a Starscream body pillow of your own, yet?
i do love the fact that walky seems to have the same connection to his alt universe enemies as carla has to her au self
I wonder what will happen if Carla ever discovers that.
“So, I was a car in the other universe? That explains why I seem to love oily food.”
Don’t bring Transformers into this. Ask them to choose between the show with the talking car and the one with the robot monkey?! Blood was shed over that issue in the 90s. They will NOT calm down.
Why spill blood over that? Robot dragons and dinosaurs are obviously top priority. I mean, vehicles? Living animals? Pshah!
(“Pshah!”? Am I using that right? It felt like the right level of sarcasm but…)
I like the one with the Tyrannosaurus.
Which one? Grimlock or Megatron?
The cool transforming one of course >.>
rip walky
nice knowin’ ya
A) The argument shifts from which cartoon series was smarter, to which cartoon series was cooler.
B) Dorothy technically said that the content of/reason for the argument was stupid, not that the arguing itself was stupid.
SHE USED HIS FIRST NAME
this cant be good
It’s okay! The middle name hasn’t happened yet! THIS CAN STILL BE SALVAGED!
Do we know his middle name? I can’t remember if it’s ever been stated.
McNuggets?
you are what you eat?
Assuming he has one. Not everyone does.
If he does, I imagine it’s something like “Thomas”.
People keep saying this. What am I missing? I saw walky call himself “david walkterton” in yesterday’s comic. I am totally willing to believe that is a call back to her calling him that… But I am getting frustrated at my inability to find things.
I have a history though of having words out of place when I read. Which is why I get so frustrated with myself. So I’d very much appreciate if someone could point me to what you all are referring to.
4th panel, there is a second, smaller word balloon near the bottom.
I missed it on first reading too.
4th panel, bottom right, between her chin and the book.
Yeah I missed it the first time too.
Found it. I had to read that panel about 20 times though! I am sometimes not good at finding small parts of a panel. I literally did not register that there was even a speech bubble there.
I frequently find that expectations filter what I can perceive. For explicitly visual things, I find occasionally find it helpful to look at things upside down and stuff will catch my eye which are otherwise filtered out. Of course that’s hard to do with a computer screen.
Most computers actually have a setting for that. I know because it was a great way to mess with computer illiterate teachers. A bit of searching should yield the option to either “Rotate Screen 180°” or “Flip Screen Horizontally.” I used to have the keyboard shortcut memorized.
I meant Vertically.
Some computers have that setting, but it’s part of manufacturer-specific video card driver settings rather than an OS feature.
So? It means she’s trying to be real for a minute.
His eyes are growing, soon they will consume all of Walky’s face!
and Dorothy was never heard from ever again…
Nah, Walky’d have to pick up the ladder for that.
Besides, we all no Dorothy could take him.
I haven’t seen the Slipshine … but I was under the impression she already had …
Where’s the damn like button?
And then they broke up forever.
Oh I wish. ( I really do) But alas Walky’s probably just gonna learn and grow and shit once he gets over himself and sees her point.
And then upload it to the interwebs. #stool
Yeah, they don’t appear (at least to me) to have the healthiest relationship, considering things as small as pajama jeans and cartoons and (almost) cookies can cause huge problems in their relationship.
I’m not an expert, though, sooooooooooooooooooooo
oh no his sad little face :C this discussion is way too emotional. also Dorothy why you calling him David all of a sudden?! this seems unexpected and possibly life-changing
I think we’re seeing the gentle dressing down option. I think she’s trying to be serious, gentle, but also firm with him.
And I think it’s largely to do with his demand to be supported in his argument, which, yeah, needs pushback.
Largely because he had no right to try and drag her into his dumb little nerd fight or expect her to back up his opinions no matter what simply because she’s his girlfriend. And especially not when he’s being a dick to someone else and doubling down on it.
Dorothy is a feminist and has a lot of feelings surrounding being treated as someone’s accessory rather than a confident woman who has her own feelings. And I think this might be her way of gently reminding Walky that she’s willing to support him in many ways, but those don’t include being treated as a dutiful second body to win fights.
Like, it’s not a massive wrong, per se, but it is a behavior that Dorothy likely has no patience for encouraging, especially with being treated partially as a thing to fulfill a role was a big part of what broke up her and Danny.
I like your clearly written words.
Yeah, they’re well said.
They are very good words.
What happens to bad words? Are they abandoned by society to a cruel fate?
Where’d you get em, goodwords? Words emporium?
I stole them from the Words Emporium.
I mean… I, uh, found them… just walking along and stuff… uh… look over there a distraction!
On occasion, Cerebus has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
Words, words, words!
I’m so sick of words
I get words all day through
First from him, now from you
Is that all you blighters can do?
This must be Cerberus’s hidden talent.
Who was your mother? Calliope?
I bet she wouldn’t eat half a fifty pack of McNuggets, either.
Walky loves that about her, though. It means he never has to share.
The supremacy of Dexter and Monkey Master is one of the 3 things Walky cares about!
the others are pajama jeans and mcnuggets
Dorothy is a distant fourth.
I thought nachitos were on the list.
nachitos are number 5
Amoungst Walky’s loves are such diverse elements as …
I’ll come in again…
So… the three things Walky cares about:
D&MM
PJeans
McNuggets
Dorothy
Nachitos
Etc.
Ehh, most trilogies I’ve read have more books than that in them.
Book 5 in the increasingly inaccurately named Hitchhiker’s Guide trilogy…
That, Xanth, the Percy Jackson trilogy…
inheritance cycle
Don’t even mention the Inheritance Cycle.
…I’l start crying again.
OH GOD WHY
You mean you’d cry a single tear, as all characters in that series do whenever they experience sadness.
I’m mean she’s not wrong. Ultra Car was ahead of it’s time…..I imagine.
“In my imagination, it is the greatest cartoon of ALL TIME.”
I would watch Ultra Car. I don’t know if I’d enjoy Dexter and Monkey Master, but a sarcastic flying female car sounds right up my alley.
It seems like Ultra Car may have been intended for a slightly older audience, but marketing had other ideas.
History of most animated cartoon shows. “For kids,” my eye.
You know she’s serious when she calls him David. Walky needs to grow up and accept that the world doesn’t revolve around Dexter & Monkey Master.
Or not, as Pokemon GO has proven.
When video games LITERALLY use a technology called “augmented reality”, that actually takes reality and adds stuff to it, you know that something’s gone either horribly wrong or horribly right.
Possibly both.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/tech/pokemon-go-crazy-events/
… okay, so MANY things have gone horribly wrong and/or right.
Seriously, people need to be more aware of their surroundings and other people when playing.
Seriously, there are plenty of Pidgeys. You don’t have to fight over the one sitting around over there.
AR is the future of mobile-platform gaming. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that it took Pokemon to get it to really take off, though.
Augmented is the future of reality.
I’m more amazed at how quickly it’s taken off, especially considering Nintendo’s history of ignoring smartphones in favor of pushing their traditional dedicated hardware.
Pokemon was made for AR before AR was even a thing.
Its the perfect game for it – so its only going to get better.
And yes, AR is the future.
We will live in a half virtual world in the next few years basically. Its inevitable at this point.
Seems pretty great to me too; Anything Anywhere. We can feed outr infovour/gameing addictions without being stuck to a desk.
Bonus, eventually we could reskin things to look like other things – and when anything can look like anything with a few clicks,will we care for brands and fashion so much? will we lust for (non-functional) status symbols at all?
Just how many pixels will replace atoms? How many products wont need to be physically made (and thus safe resources)?
Interesting times.
Isn’t it always the case, no matter how much you love your boyfriend, sooner or later you will have to put him against your intellectual integrity in matters of cartoons.
Hey! SOME of us of the male persuasion get worked up about video games instead!
Unrelated, but I love that that comment came from a Jocelyn Gravatar. It just seems so counterpoint that it had me coughing up coffee when I saw.
Hrumph. In my day you broke up over books and important things like if balrogs have wings. (Which they totally don’t.)
They have wings made of shadow. 🙂
Telekinetic flight?
Aha, but see I’ve found my devious way around that trap by just never being romantically attracted to men. It’s ingenious!
GENIUS!!!
Next up, I will share my awesome secret for avoiding getting sexually frustrated by being too ace to care.
I’ll set up the powerpoint.
How well does ace go with dating? Not that it’s any of my business.
In my experience not terribly well :/. I do have friends that have great relationships where one person is ace, so it’s definitely possible! It’s just that sex is one of the big dealbreakers for romantic relationships, surpassing the questions of both marriage and children. And like, if a prospective partner and I aren’t compatible, we’re not compatible. It’s disappointing and frustrating to not be compatible with the vast majority of the populace, but it is what it is.
Depends on the couple, since whilst some ace people do enjoy sexual stuff sometimes, plenty of us want nothing to do with it at all. Similarly, if a non-ace partner of an ace person considers sexual contact to be an important part of a relationship that they’re not willing to leave out, then there might well be problems. But, if that non-ace partner is totally cool with not sleeping with their partner then chances are things will be totally fine.
Some couples in this situation decide that they’d both be happier if the partner who does want sex fulfills that desire with other people, so the relationship could be described as an open one, and for some people that works out great, others it does not.
As with most relationship stuff, what works and what doesn’t depends on the people involved, and so long as they communicate honestly with each other things will probably work out fine.
It depends.
Like, romantic asexuals exist and healthy relationships with ace spectrum folks with folks who are ace spectrum or even who are not can definitely thrive under similar conditions to most any other relationship.
However, there’s a lot of ignorance surrounding asexuality that can slip into relationships and breed problems. A lot of ace folks can be under risk for sexual coercion from a partner who just sort of expected sex to be a given in a relationship without talking about it or what everyone is looking for in a relationship. As is problems such as sexual assault and corrective rape.
Less awfully, but still negatively, we as a culture tend to be pretty hesitant on that whole actual communicating in relationships thing, especially in terms of having frank conversations about sex and sexual communication. A lot of sexual folks in relationships with asexual folks are used to relying on shortcuts like mutual sexual attraction and chemistry or sexual interest to broach the subject of physicality regardless of what the asexual actually is comfortable with.
And sexual partners who are women tend to be under strong social pressure to view a partner’s lack of sexual attraction as a sign of a personal failing of attractiveness or worth. And sexual partners who are men tend to be under strong social pressure to view a partner’s lack of sexual attraction as a personal attack or a diminishing of their masculinity in some way.
That all being said, these are mostly problems with a lot of the social baggage and general acephobia of our current culture. With communication (a staple of any healthy relationship) a long-lasting romantic partnership is as possible between an asexual and a sexual as between two sexuals.
Not to mention that dating an asexual is not necessarily a sign that the relationship will be sexless. Some asexuals find non-sexual enjoyment in certain sexual acts or have variable or conditional sexual attractions (ace is a spectrum after all).
Not to mention that arrangements like polyamory can exist.
All together I’ve had reasonably decent success in that all my relationships tend to be long-lasting and I’m currently in two very loving relationships at the moment.
/signed. I am an ace woman, and my lesbian girlfriend and I celebrated our fourth anniversary a few months ago. We are successful exactly because we communicate very honestly and work together to find solutions that work for both of us. Also the loving each other thing.
The loving each other thing really helps, yeah.
And definitely agree. A relationship with ace people in it will succeed or fail similar to any other relationship based on how willing the people in it are to communicate honestly and find a shape that best works for them.
*Spoiler for Girls With Slingshots*
That question is explored at one point in girls with slingshots. The outcome is adorable. (the link below will put you at a keypoint of their relationship. SPOILERS).
http://www.girlswithslingshots.com/comic/gws-1370
also how does Walky enen know who Carla is?? Him using her name, not just saying “her” implies they’ve been introduced. By who? When? Did I miss something?
Well, she did come out of the room with ULTRA CARLA stuck to it in bright bubble letters.
oh yeah
It really is a mystery……
If nothing else, I imagine EVERYONE know about Carla’s epic takedown of Mary.
Walky adores cartoons, so you can bet anything that features a spring loaded pie would pique his interest.
Also, pie.
“Yeah, just aim it right at my wide-open mouth.”
“Your shoe’s untied.”
“What? No it’s no-Splat!”
I’d trust her judgement on intelligent cartoons. The woman does have a Persepolis poster in her room.
Incidentally, I just discovered a local theater is doing a Miyazaki retrospective. On Sunday I got the surreal experience of watching Kiki’s Delivery Service in a PACKED theater. They sold out of tickets to a 27 year old SUBTITLED movie. People actually APPLAUDED at the end.
I used to work in a theater, and my experiences there basically turned me into Jason from Multiplex when it comes to my thoughts on the moviegoing public. May need to reevaluate some things.
I just came to say the same thing. Persepolis is a very, very good book, I love the poster in her room.
Kiki on the other hand.. it must be my least favorite of Miyazaki’s. I can’t find anything but the obvious in it. Sorry.
oh god Kiki is so SAD. she can’t make good things happen to good people or fix emotions. it’s such a melancholy film. it really hurt to watch it and i might not be able to watch it again.
Those puppy-dog eyes, holy moly.
I love that Dorothy has in fact seen the Ultra Car cartoon.
And probably was likewise saddened as a child no one would make toys of it, if only for a moment in between her baby politicianness. (Eight-year-old Dorothy was totally class president. Also at Valentine’s Day her cards were Dexter and Monkey Master ones, which were the coolest.)
I wonder if this is a metaphor for something deeper.
Like, Ultra Car was a smart women-centric show that Carla notes had some deep thoughts on gender stuff. But it got cancelled early and had no toys out for it and is pissed on by traditional cartoon fans. I wonder if Ultra Car had a devoted girl fanbase, but got axed and hated on for largely sexist reasons.
And so, for Dorothy and Carla, that was a first formative experience that the things that are made for girls like them will always be publicly treated as worthless entirely because women like it or are in it and that if they want to be into something popular, they’re gonna have to be into things that are advertising themselves specifically for boys.
And for Carla, doing that was not something she was ever going to feel comfortable doing, but to Dorothy, it was something that she was more willing to do.
So basically, my thought is that she found a lot of stuff rewarding in the show marketed to boys, but still recognizes the sexist pressure that axed the smart clever show that was popular with girls.
This seems to be a metaphor for Young Justice.
As I said, “something deeper” 😉
But seriously, yeah, I was being deliberate to try and not name names because I feel this happens to a lot of media that are either popular with girls or women or star women prominently.
Like, Legend of Korra is another that had a strong pedigree leading in but since it had a girl lead, Nickelodeon was extra antsy about fully backing it and kept dicking the creators around on the amount of seasons and budget they had to tell their story.
That sort of stuff happens a lot and it’s something you get real used to when you’re a girl fan of cartoons and other geek media (ask any comic fangirl about how Wonder Woman is perennially mismanaged or how scared we get that Squirrel Girl or Miss Marvel is going to be suddenly axed one day for having the “wrong types of fans”).
Honestly, it’d be a lot easier if it was just individual works getting screwed over rather than being part of a larger overall pattern.
That toy aspect of the Ultra Car cancellation kinda confuses me. It’s a car! Whole empires have been created on cars! Imagine transforming Ultra Car, the Ultra car ultra fast race track, Ultra car battery operated buggies to ride in, Talking Ultra car remote controlled racer! The people in charge of marketing and merchandise for this fictional cartoon inside a fictional comic were idiots. And before you say “girls don’t like cars” They do. Cars are unisex and you can even have a “pink” one if you want to appeal to that gender stereotype. Rant over.
And now we find out if Walky is mature enough to handle a mature discussion about maturely looking back at old favorites as our tastes mature out of the WHO AM I KIDDING?
theres not a high chance of that happening
He doesn’t know the meaning of “mature”.
It’s an ESRB rating, isn’t it?
no no its a tv rating
I thought it was for video games?
it can be for both!
You’re not kidding a kidder because kidders can’t be kidded. Kid? Kidden?
God damned Germanic languages with their goddamned strong verbs making it goddam impossibe to figure out the gd participles and it’s a good thing this rant is over because if I compressedthat cursing anmore it would create a singulatity and swallow the rest of my gMOOB!
Kidded, I believe, is the correct one, although I have seen kid on occasion but there’s no way I’m ever using anything but kidden now. May I use your rant to go along with it? I have a lot of problems with this language.
‘Kid’ would be a weak verb as there’s no umlaut to form the preterite. It’s not ‘kid, kod, kodden’ after all
Also, this sounds like conversations I keep having to avoid re: Narnia/Potter and REH/LotR.
Yes, I know you are emotionally invested in it, but the lack of character development/crap poetry/endless lack of plot means those other books are better.
The Chronicles of Narnia and the Harry Potter books weren’t close enough trope-wise for me to consider them worth comparing.
Nor for that matter, are REH &LotR. I’m actually fond of all 4, in very different ways and I’m not sure which conversations Skizz is avoiding or even which they think are better.
I’m guessing the “crap poetry” is a LotR’s reference cause I can’t think of poetry in the others.
I know the other three, but what’s REH? Google was no help.
I likewise would not compare them. But I also think comparing series is stupid anyways. I get nerd love for show. I get nerd rage when a show is treated badly. I do not get nerd rage over which show is better.
I mean, I’m a nerd. I’m fully aware that I like things other people don’t. So obviously the same thing can happen in reverse.
And, yes, a nerd can not know some nerdy thing that you think everyone knows.
Probably Robert E. Howard, creator of Conan the Barbarian.
Dorothy if you want to be in a relationship with someone then sometimes you have to suck it up and agree with them even when, especially when, they say something boneheaded
By all means let them have it in private but its always better to project a united front in public
Eh. I’m not a terribly big fan of this.
Like, if it’s some asshole tearing your partner down or just being a dick to them, then fuck yeah, the time for nuance is later, take down the bastard together.
But if it’s something like, “hey, be complicit in my accidental shitting on a treasured childhood memory of someone else because my nerd dick needs to be the biggest”, then fuck that noise, you’re on your own sucker.
But then, I date people who’re very appreciative of being clued in that they’re being dickish to someone and I tend to also be very appreciative when I’m called out by a loved one for doing something douchey.
My wife lets me know if I’m being a dick (just being a dick I mean so not anything really bad) in private and I do the same as well
But in public we present a united front because if you can’t even support your partner over something trivial then, to me, you’re putting yourself ahead of your partners feelings
I dunno, I think it’s just different perspective, but I like being called out in the moment, because if I’m being a dick, I want to be able to stop it early before I continue to unwittingly hurt someone’s feelings.
Though that might be because I tend to really internalize hurting other people so knowing early saves me a lot of mental anguish later where I’m beating myself up for being both a dick and oblivious.
Yeah, I straight up call someone out if they’re actively being a dick because of that reason. I’m not tossing anyone under the bus by pretending to support someone who I know is being an ass, and I expect my friend/SO/sibling to do the same to me. I’m not likely to tear into them in public, but I’ll definitely take the side of the person being harmed or insulted. It’s not about me putting my feelings first, it’s about me doing right by someone else.
Yeah, I’ve read the rest of this thread, and I still can’t budge toward Chris, and you just bring up more reasons. Like, even ignoring wanting to know that I’m being a dick or said something not-okay by accident of wording, I want to actually be able to have discussions with people, including my husband, especially if other people are involved (that is, not that I prefer talking to him with other people, but rather that when with other people, I want to be able to discuss with him too). Plus, I am not going to sit there and be associated with it if he’s saying something dumb or rude.
Of course, this doesn’t come up much because the things we disagree on are relatively harmless.
But what if, similar to this situation, you genuinely disagree with your partner? Are you expected to stifle your own feelings in favor of your partner’s? And in that case, how do you decide which one of you has to fold?
If its minor then yes, if its something major then you’ve got bigger problems to deal with…its not absolute of course but more a good rule of thumb
That’s a nightmare. A partner who expects that isn’t worth it.
Not at all, do it right and doesn’t take long to sort out the issues because you should naturally want to be a better person for your partner anyway, at least thats how it worked for us.
My wife and I are partners, not the same person. We’re both on the board of directors of the same non-profit and it isn’t all that uncommon for us to come down on different sides of a question. If we always were going to have the same opinion, there wouldn’t be any sense in having us both on the board. Presenting a united front might actually be useful if your facing someone that would exploit differences (you know, like your kids) but otherwise it’s artificial and of limited usefulness.
…this makes it sound worse, not better. Why are you defining tossing one’s opinions in the trash and blindly following one’s partner as “becoming a better person”???
To Shiro, when I was younger I didn’t take criticism well, I took it as somewhat of a personal attack. So being criticized, in public, didn’t sit well with me.
Same thing with my wife (partner at the time) is that she doesn’t like criticism either (rough childhood I suspect) so what we both decided was to present a united front and bring up the things we don’t like in private
What that did for us is we both felt less judged and because of that we could talk it through and as I said previously those issues became less and less
For some people on here that doesn’t sit well and that’s cool, others on here see it as controlling, due to previous experiences, and I feel bad for them
I can say that for us it works well, we’ve been together coming up 12 years now and married for 8
Frankly, that’s ridiculous. I’m dating my boyfriend, not becoming his squire or some shit. And again, how do you figure out which one of you has to ignore their own opinions in favor of blindly following the other?
But they are in private.
Different people want different things out of relationships. Sometimes solidarity works better for couples than disagreeing in public. Sometimes disagreeing in public works better. What’s healthy for any given relationship is a case-by-case question.
Would definitely agree!
Um, why is it the one who’s not running backup who’s not supporting their partner, rather than the one in the fight who’s not dropping it?
Hey at least she stayed neutral. He should count himself lucky that she didn’t take Carla’s side in public.
I think we’re now seeing exactly why her earlier dodge was so awkwardly phrased.
I have a deep hatred of the “united front” concept that is for reasons entirely related to my own baggage from growing up, but butting that aside:
I support the idea of supporting your partner in stuff that’s important to them, even if you don’t necessarily understand the importance. Case in point: My partner loves Azimov books. I can’t stand them myself, but I get why he likes them and I’m not going to throw a temper tantrum over him wanting to watch a documentary or some shit about the guy.
However, I don’t stuff my own feelings in favor of his. If we’re in public and the topic goes to Azimov, I will say I don’t like the guy, I find his writing two-dimensional and sexist as fuck, and while I do understand his role as someone who forged a lot of what we think of as what sci-fi is today, I also think he is over-rated and there are much better authors out there (including authors who can write more than two types of female characters – which is an issue that is important to me). To be perfectly honest, women and female-read people are always under an immense amount of pressure to basically be Danny and suppress our own will and interests and preferences in favor of our partners’. The whole, “You’re not supporting meeeee if you don’t take my side in things in public!” thing is just an extension of that.
And I have a big problem with that expectation: I do not exist to be my partner’s support. I am my own person, with my own thoughts, beliefs, opinions, and emotions. Sometimes the two of us disagree, and if/when that happens, I will not suppress who I am. Neither, for that matter, do I expect him to suppress who he is. The two of us got to where we are with open and honest communication, and we’re not about to stop on that front now.
“I have a deep hatred of the “united front” concept that is for reasons entirely related to my own baggage from growing up, but butting that aside:”
you have good reasons for hating the concept based on your previous experience of it and that’s cool
“I support the idea of supporting your partner in stuff that’s important to them, even if you don’t necessarily understand the importance. Case in point: My partner loves Azimov books. I can’t stand them myself, but I get why he likes them and I’m not going to throw a temper tantrum over him wanting to watch a documentary or some shit about the guy.”
“However, I don’t stuff my own feelings in favor of his. If we’re in public and the topic goes to Azimov, I will say I don’t like the guy, I find his writing two-dimensional and sexist as fuck, and while I do understand his role as someone who forged a lot of what we think of as what sci-fi is today, I also think he is over-rated and there are much better authors out there (including authors who can write more than two types of female characters – which is an issue that is important to me). To be perfectly honest, women and female-read people are always under an immense amount of pressure to basically be Danny and suppress our own will and interests and preferences in favor of our partners’. The whole, “You’re not supporting meeeee if you don’t take my side in things in public!” thing is just an extension of that.”
Good, if it doesn’t work for you then you shouldn’t do it. However please note that I’m not expecting my wife do it and I don’t, when the situations are reversed I’m the one that, at the very least, keeps non-committal, and brings up the issue later (though happening less now of course)
And I have a big problem with that expectation: I do not exist to be my partner’s support. I am my own person, with my own thoughts, beliefs, opinions, and emotions. Sometimes the two of us disagree, and if/when that happens, I will not suppress who I am. Neither, for that matter, do I expect him to suppress who he is. The two of us got to where we are with open and honest communication, and we’re not about to stop on that front now.
and that’s fine, I don’t exist to be my wifes support either but I do so because I want to (and vice versa)
I agree with you, the main point of difference is that we keep it private and it works for us
She didn’t say Carla was right in public. She just didn’t lie and support Walky when he was being a complete asshole to Carla. Why should she care only about Walky’s feelings, and not Carla’s?
I mean, he made fun of her as a person because she was a big fan of a show he didn’t like. Then he went further and belittled her comment about how her personal connection with the show by equating it with a farting episode.
Sure, she accidentally let slip that she thought the argument was stupid, but that was only after Carla needled her.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with not helping your partner make a further ass of himself.
Don’t hold it in soldier. Let it all out, David Walkerton, let all the tears fall out…
“not all tears are an evil”
And here we see a sinking ship.
the tropes page described dorothy as enjoying having to take care of walky, but now it seems as if dorothy is beginning to realize that walky might really never grow out of the childish mindset he maintains. if the current situation doesn’t induce some sort of needed maturation in him, dorothy could begin to be stressed out by the relationship and it would have to end as quickly as possible. it would be good for her to be apart from walky and his eternal manchild philosophy. for walky, well, i dont know what’ll happen for him.
her saying david instead of walky like usual could be the signifier of the stress in the relationship taking its toll on her.
I don’t necessarily see it as realizing that Walky never changes, because she’s still in the belief that this relationship has a defined end-point and so it doesn’t matter if he grows up overall in his entire life so long as he’s fun and relaxing to be with now.
But you might be right in that she’s recognizing the parts where his more toxic behaviors can sometimes be more exhausting than they are refreshing when they are out in force (I’m thinking also of his temper tantrum with the pajama jeans).
Honestly, though, I think she’d be overall happier if she wasn’t finding it so easy to drift into believing it is her job to fix up Walky and make him a better man and instead just let herself enjoy sex for sex’s sake without beating herself up with nightmares about future tabloid headlines.
I honestly don’t think Dorothy’s feeling much overall relationship stress.
WALKY is, because he’s bottled up his concerns about failing and tied that into measuring up to Dorothy and worrying that she’ll dump him if his grades are bad and that whole love comment and a bunch of other stuff. Every time he refuses to face that or let it air out, it adds another weight to the mass that might one day suffocate the relationship. And this might be one more thing (if it’s not the last straw), the idea that his favorite cartoon isn’t smart enough by the standards of the smartest person he knows, that it is inferior and childish. His tastes become a personal condemnation. If he swallows that and doesn’t at least discuss it, that will ratchet up his stress factor in this relationship further.
But Dorothy doesn’t have that problem. She doesn’t hide things from Walky. She’s brave enough to say things, expose aspects of herself, knowing that she might get hurt as a result but still willing to accept that as the price of being authentic. (No, less of a price and more of an aspect. It’s two sides of the same coin.) The stress Dorothy’s going through right now is less “this overall relationship is problematic in a fundamental long-term way”, and more “this conversation’s going to be difficult for the next few minutes”.
I’m almost tempted to say that Dorothy’s laying down a gauntlet here and challenging Walky to grow. But she isn’t. She seems okay with him remaining an immature goof. Right here, she’s simply staking out her own ground and holding it, as is her right. The only challenge she’s issuing to Walky in this is the challenge she poses by her very existence as an authentic, mature, intelligent person that he interacts with.
That makes a lot of sense.
She’s not particularly angry with him, but she’s also not going to hide the fact that she’s a strong independent and opinionated woman in her own right with her own history of connection to particular pieces of media.
So more a “Walky, no, no honey” rather than a “ugh, you’re really not being sexy right now”.
the question now, then, is what will walky take away from this experience?
It could be that Walky is beginning to not be alright with the box that he encouraged Dorothy to put him in. At least, I think this is where it’s going. I feel as though Dorothy might get hurt, but I also feel Walky may be hurt as well – he might walk away from this relationship, look back and dislike that he felt he had to hide himself and that he embraced a persona he didn’t realize looked a certain way to others, or that he didn’t know he didn’t want to be. Walkys arc may be him becoming whole instead of forcing himself to be 2D for simplicity and comfort.
My guess is that he’ll continue running from the idea that he’s eventually going to have to do girly stuff like talk out his feelings about various stuff with people in a way that might make him feel super vulnerable or that will go against his ego.
Up until he can’t anymore.
And I think that when he breaks, it’ll be the grade thing that’ll take center stage.
Because that’s pressing right up against the very thing he’s been using to prop up his entire sense of self as a super smart dude who succeeds without even needing to try (with no outside aid by systems of oppression). Not to mention the thing that’s probably been pressing back against a lot of awful racist social messages about black men like him.
Oh right, that’s another fragment of why DatMM has to be the smartest, isn’t it.
Quite likely, yeah.
The thing is, Walky doesn’t IDENTIFY as black. While that sort of messaging has doubtless been applied to him to some degree, I think it may have had trouble sticking. Maybe it’s a sort of mixed-race privilege thing where he’s found a mindset wherein he can ignore all the stereotypes about black people where he’s concerned.
My prediction — and yes, it could go a lot of ways, including what you’re describing Cerb — is that being honest with Dorothy will start scaring him. The stakes have been raised and he won’t be relaxed enough with her to actually bare what’s going on in his heart and head. (He’s there already, but it can get more so.) Eventually he’s going to need to talk about it. It can’t be with another dude because dudes, and it can’t be with Dorothy because that’s the problem, so it will be with a woman. And thus will start an infidelity (even if it’s just an emotional one) that tears the whole thing apart.
I might get flamed for this, but Walky is black because he is mixed and one of his parents is black. his blackness is not negated because one of his parents is white. The world interacts with him as if he is black. People in the comics and on comment have referred to him as “caramel” – which is a term decidedly not applied to white people.
Race is a bit more complex in that way. So much of your perception of yourself, racially, is dictated by the way people interact with you. Walky is mixed, and because he is light, his parents treated him way better. In the same way, Sal got treated like shit because she is blacker than him. Additionally, it could be a parallel to the way Blackness is often defined as the opposite of whiteness, even though Black culture is its own entity.
Ex. We think uneducated- we think POC especially black people. Why? Because that’s how a lot of people, on a federal and social level, interact with black people. We think speaking standard English is how only white people speak. We assume black people are dangerous and white people are safe. And so on. It could be that Walky has internalized that, especially because of Sal, and so he distances himself from that part of the heritage. Someone telling me they’re “generically beige” communicates to me 1) a joke, which is not a real answer 2) an indication that they haven’t thought about it at best.
Likewise, we cannot accept Sal as black and turn around and deny that Walky is also black. It doesn’t make sense to me. Theyre twins. I guarantee you the rest of the world interacts with both of them as if they are black. Walky can’t really hide his race/skin color.. it’s why I’m confused Everytime someone says he not black, and I also wince a little, as someone who is not mixed but is black also. That could be my own reason why I feel this way. I must think on it more.
Like is said. I know I’ll get flamed for this, but in terms of race, I feel it differs from other things like sexuality (as in, you really couldn’t look at someone and “tell what they are” so to speak) in the sense that if Walky was stopped by a cop, that cop wouldn’t care what Walky identified as. That’s what complicates it. It is physical and people definitely do interact with you differently. It’s an interesting discussion to be had though. I hope I haven’t stepped on toes with my last paragraph.
No flames. But I think people get to pick what they identify as. And that applies to race as much as anything else.
I’m in agreement with most of what you said there. My point was that, strictly in terms of whether he has internalized and is self-applying negative stereotypes about black people that he has likely been exposed to throughout his life, him not self-identifying as black could effectively prevent that from impacting his self-esteem.
Nah, I’m 100% with you on that.
Walky is black by our society’s definition of that and as such is not immune to all the shit that is thrown at black folks in our society.
Like, he may have a lot of hangups about fully identifying with black culture (gee, I wonder how growing up in super white-bread parts of Indiana with parents who regularly put down signs of black identity in their children such as natural hair might lead to a really awkward relationship with one’s own blackness), but that doesn’t actually protect him from societal racism and all that comes with it.
And that has definitely not been helped by his family regularly shitting on his sister because she is seen as “blacker” in the sense that the family associates her with criminality, poor academic performances, violence, and disobedience. Nor has it been helped by his family overly rewarding specific forms of success.
Honestly, I think one of the arcs we’re already starting to see with him is him slowly coming to terms with his blackness and how that racial identity has shaped him as well as how the racism both inside his family and outside his family has shaped his attitude and perceptions of that racial identity.
Reltzik- I guess I see that as more of a symptom of that internalization. I.e. he’s been told all his life that black people are violent ignorant criminals and he isn’t any of those things, so he thinks he must not be black, because that’s the image of blackness most presented to him.
And that he might subconsciously believe that if he doesn’t view himself as black or call himself black, he’ll somehow avoid some of the racist garbage his sister has had to endure growing up.
No flames either, and an interesting perspective.
Billie has alluded to Walky not really noticing how the world treats him and Sal, because he never left his cartoons. With his straight hair, effortless academic success, parental expectations/treatment as their golden boy, and having zero interest in leaving his own bubble, he may not have been treated differently in a way he would notice. (Like, his teachers may have called him ‘articulate’ in a way they wouldn’t say about a white student, they may have been surprised how well he did in school, but Walky would just think that meant he was articulate and extra-clever.) Walky certainly hadn’t reflected on his treatment or compared it to anything else, until very recently with Sal.
Sal, on the other hand, reads much more “Black” than her twin brother, and left cartoons ages ago, to notice society’s opinions of her, which have caused her very unfair treatment. She’s also had plenty of time and inclination to reflect on her family’s and society’s views of her, and to grapple with those effects as she builds her identity as a young Black woman.
In addition, I wonder whether Walky is, subconsciously, firmly rejecting his potential Blackness. After all, their parents gave them a ton of covert messages that being Black is not as good, and being genetically beige preserves his favoured status. Doubly so if his cartoon is considered a white-kid thing. It’s hard not to internalize that constant barrage.
Okay, I guess most of us are kinda saying the same thing, only I didn’t use the right language earlier.
“In addition, I wonder whether Walky is, subconsciously, firmly rejecting his potential Blackness. After all, their parents gave them a ton of covert messages that being Black is not as good, and being genetically beige preserves his favoured status. Doubly so if his cartoon is considered a white-kid thing. It’s hard not to internalize that constant barrage.”
“My sister’s black, I’m ambiguously beige”
I was with you until the emotional infidelity thing. I’m not saying it won’t happen, or that it doesn’t happen, but I think it’s entirely possible for even an emotionally immature man to seek and receive help doing and learning to do social and emotional labour without tumbling into an affair.
At some level this is just a longer-winded way of saying “Men and women can be friends, you know!” which personal experience, if nothing else, has demonstrated to me is true. I’m not saying the friendships are equal or fair, or that there’s no sexual tension in them, but they do happen, and men do seek the advice of women friends, without turning into affairs.
Sure. And I did emphasize that it might just be emotional, rather than sexual.
The problem wouldn’t be that he was opening up to someone else. The problem would be that he was opening up to someone else INSTEAD OF DOROTHY.
To be open and authentic with someone else about your deepest self while being closed and secretive with your significant other in the same regard, THAT is a recipe for disaster.
yeah, dorothy, stop insulting marjane satrapi
…Holy crap, I did not even notice that poster in the background.
You, sir, have good eyes.
Third panel Walky shows a self awareness that a lot of people don’t have: that the amount of emotion you’ve invested into am argument might not be proportional to the subject being discussed (Walky notices it but doesn’t do anything about it)
It’s a really nice touch. And it shows that he can definitely grow out of this if he can muscle his fragile ego out of the way a bit.
Yeah. He’s smart enough to recognize when he’s being immature, which will definitely help. Unfortunately, he’s still too immature to get over it.
And that’s the hump he’ll need to get over.
But he always presents such awareness with a sense of dismissing said awareness. “Yeah, I know it, but I’m ignoring it, and even if I just said it, I said it as a joke so it doesn’t count.”
That’s unfortunately, infuriatingly common among insecure young men.
I blame terrible social messaging given to those raised as if men about “how to be a man”.
Out of curiosity have you by any chance seen “The Mask You Live In”? It has some weak areas as a documentary but it’s still overall a rather solid look at how such social messages combine to create the modern flavor of toxic masculinity.
No, but I just added it to my queue. Thanks!
Armor can be made out of irony as well as iron.
Let’s be honest. We all have things that we sincerely like that aren’t very good. And that’s okay.
ronin warriors, zoids, monster rancher…..
Final Fantasies 6 and 8, Link to the Past, Master of Orion 2, Super Metroid, pulling the pin on a nerd rage grenade and running away before the comment thread goes kaboom…
*6 and 9, I mean, 8 is nothing but boring repetative Draw commands to me.
batman forever
Doc Savage. Perry Rodan.
I thought 8 was alright. I found the draw system to be interesting – I’m a player that enjoys level grinding though. The story however, was super convoluted and certain characters (*cough* Sender *cough) definitely could have been fleshed out/had better roles. I was also surprised to find that the Dynasty Warriors series isn’t insanely popular in the US.
*I mean Sei fer * dang auto correct
Final Fantasy 6 “not very good”? Dude, what’s wrong with you?
Taste.
I liked it fine, growing up, and in a lot of ways it aged decently. It’s by no means terrible. But slightly janky translation aside (Because that can at least be fun), it… didn’t really have much to work with in terms of character. Sure, there’s more of it than prior in the series, and it’s more than most contemporary games of its time, but… those are pretty low bars, all told. Even comparing it to other modern JRPGs, companies have learned to do character interaction better, by a pretty notable degree.
You like Ronin Warriors? haha what a dweeb
none must know of my love for bobobo…….god help me i love yami no matsuei
Ooh, this reminds me Young Justice being canceled because girls were watching it instead of boys. Hoping a real discussion happens here (though, with Walky involved, chances aren’t the best for that)
Not even. YJ mainly got canceled because there was a contractual tie between it and the then current Green Lantern animated (specifically they had to contractually keep making both or drop both). They had to can Green Lantern because it was a massive money pit due to the movie failing, and even with it’s good ratings Young Justice wasn’t bringing in that level of value. The female dominant proportion of the audience was just an added excuse on the executive level.
Oh and rumor is (well, was a month or two back) that Netflix is trying to negotiate rights to bring the series back as a Netflix original with the same cast and crew.
Really? I read it had something to do with not selling enough merchandise to the “right” age category, despite strong ratings. I thought I read people objected by saying they could have sold merchandise to an older audience but they elected not to.
That was a very big reason too. And while I understand people’s opinions on “well, just market to the demographic that IS watching it!” (re: older teenage girls)….that’s simply not how businesses work. If a toy and merchandise company dumps massive funds into a project and that project fails, they’re not going to dump another equal amount of funds just to try it in another direction. Especially since the demographic who were watching the show weren’t LITTLE girls, they were people who could most likely view the commercials and marketing with a more gender-neutral eye and could afford to get the merchandise on their own. So all the toy and merch companies were seeing their target demographic not buying toys and merch, and the demographic the show appealed to more not buying toys and merch, and they decided to pull out and cut their losses.
tbh, this is probably exactly what happened to Ultra Car too.
Also, I get what people are saying about Walky and his “man child geek boy” routine and why they’re tired of it, but like…that’s kind of insulting? I’m a grown ass woman and I get into just as heated debates about things that are important to me–comics, video games, cartoons, etc–as Walky does. Dotty is being a bit of a dick for dismissing something Walky so clearly feels deeply about (and, honestly, who’s to say he won’t go into cartoons for a career? Or writing?), and excusing it as her being the “mature” one who is done babying her manchild boyfriend is super, super insulting. And dismissive of Carla, who is not in anyway a man or a geeky manchild, but who got equally as into the debate.
ALSO, friendly reminder that just because Carla and Dotty both think that Ultra Car is “smarter” doesn’t mean it is? Dotty’s “maturity” doesn’t mean she has good taste in media. Or that she knows what the hell she’s talking about. Since we never actually see either show, I think it’s just as safe to assume that maybe BOTH shows are equally as smart, they just appeal to different types of people more.
Dotty needs to hop off her high horse.
wow that turned out way longer than i thought it would
Oh my jesus, the way people bend over backwards to try to protect Wally is so incredibly old.
Not knowing about Young Justice, I don’t care. I am a hermit, I am generally off in my own place. But I will say: Just because ‘business does not work like that’ does not mean it is correct. They know they have a captive audience. They know that audience buys things. And I have alllll the skepticism that the toy marketting was ‘gender neutral’. To be fair, I somewhat shudder to think of what they would have come up with instead, or more likely, licensed out.
Personally, I couldn’t care less whether your arguments are heated. Do you get into it and start denying the identity of people who can least afford it? Get into arguments about what you like better, idgaf. But taking the extra time to shit on things other people like for no god damned reason? That’s different. The fact that people keep insisting that’s just arguing about what you like is more than a little obnoxious.
If Dotty thinks it’s dumb to argue about cartoons in general (Unlikely – she’s done it, and seems on board with Leslie doing it), that can be on her. But given that she’s finally deploying it /when her SO is being a dick/, she’s probably more dismissing /the way/ he’s doing this. And because he’s being a dick, she /should/ (Or at least, she shouldn’t try to pretend its okay, even if she’s unwilling to expend the energy to say he’s wrong)
Also, uh, lol. Are we really going to assume Wally is right about which show is smarter when his argument relied on Fart Jokes (Yes, I bloody well know the Bard relied on them. I’ve said repeatedly that cutting them in adaptations is probably what makes him spin in his grave fastest) is.. pretty… well it’s something. Why the fuck are we going out of our way to assume he’s right about what’s smarter? Putting aside that Dotty has shown better taste than Wally, /she’s also the one going against her actual favorite/. Dotty likes DatMM better. If you’re going to slam her for her taste in fictional cartoons, shouldn’t it be, yanno, /that/? Ceerikes.
That last panel just make me want to be able to slap Walky or somwthing because really REALLY? Using that same phrase to start his whining!!!!
Yesss…. Now admit Beast Machines was a better show than Beast Wars!
I hear that’s a capital offense in some countries.
Well DUH. Look how much more choppy and primitive the graphics and rendering were in Beast Wars. That’s the only indication of quality you need right there.
…or the fact that one told a cohesive and nuanced story that explored themes of spiritual awakening, corruption, extremism, and jingoism and characters that constantly explored their own senses of morality as well as grew and changed. Even good characters *le gasp* turning evil for ideological reasons.
…but no. That doesn’t matter. They toy’s are different than in the show.
And tonight the grav roulette gives me Jocelyne.
I’m flattered, Grav Roulette. Truly, I am. And there are aspects of Jocelyne I relate to — being a writer, her ability to come up with wicked plans, her being a wise dispenser of knowledge and holder of secrets. And not just in-the-closet secrets, but “I’m like an iceberg of knowledge, I know ten times more than the knowledge you see, and I’ll share if you ask but if it doesn’t come up it doesn’t come up.”
… well I can DREAM of being that kind of knowledgeable, right?
So, yes, Grav Roulette, I am flattered. Appreciative. Even tempted It’s not a BAD fit. But much of her defining life statuses and the impact upon how she interacts with the world — being closeted, not being in a place where she can be openly authentic and even confrontational — do not fit me at all. It’s not her fault, it’s not mine, but it’s a mismatch. And there are others who are so much more suited to her, and who she represents so much better, and for me to claim her or even share her with them would be to cheapen that connection they have with her.
And so, with some regrets and as much class as I can muster, I shall see through tonight’s date with the elder Brown sister, and then say adieu and bon chance and continue with my grav roulette search.
…..
(I am feeling SO pretentious tonight, and it is awesome.)
revel in the pretentiosity
I mean, if one’s going to affect a pretentious manner, why would one not revel?
…..you have a good point
Go Team Pretentious!
Also, I’m loving your elaborate posts justifying spinning the roulette again each time as they are nice little character deconstructions as well as hella witty.
Can’t wait for tomorrow’s installment of Reltzik’s Gravatar Roulette!
I don’t understand how this hurts my feels similarly to all the other, objectively more hurty things in this comic.
BAAAW WALKY U SO WOOBY
My failed cartoon was smarter then your successful show.
That’s hipster talk no worse it’s on the level of saying you yourself are a better writer then the most successful writer.
Commercial success isn’t equivalent to quality.
Exactly. Commerce is about making what people want and offering it to them, storytelling is said to be about leaving people wanting more. The motives inherently clash.
This.
Also tastes are relative.
And works that are more likely to be resonant to say, women who like to deconstruct gender norms, are not necessarily going to be things that have a lot of marketing muscle behind them trying to drive success and may even be sabotaged at both the highest level and the lowest level.
How reflexive must your hatred of hipsters be that you assume someone is actually being motivated primarily by the commercial failure part? With fictional characters and a fictional show, at that?
Also, popularity is by no means of the imagination a guarantor of a show’s cleverness, anymore than it’s an indicator that it isn’t. I mean ffs, Dotty even thinks DatMM was smart. Just, less so.
Yes, that’s why Carla picked out this show specifically because it didn’t have toys or a larger, more established fanbase, and why she took pleasure from that fact.
. . . Huh. Hang on one moment. THat doesn’t describe why she loves the show at all.
I guess you’re wrong.
Having specific resonances that speak to you on a deeply personal level owing to a marginalized identity is clearly the most hipster thing of all.
Transfolks were oppressed before it was cool.
This actually made me genuinely giggle like an idiot, so thank you for that. 🙂
… and Carla is a TOTAL hipster. Dorky hat and all.
Well Joyce is coming back to college at the very right moment.
UNITE FOR D&MM!!
Oh hey, I called it.
Little bit awkward that they’re saying “cartoon show” instead of just “cartoon” or “show”. But that could just be me.
All Cars Matter
Don’t.
As in don’t take a hashtag dedicated to a movement being used people being gunned down on a daily basis and try to turn it into a joke. Not fucking funny.
Every day should be !
Darn HTML tags. Let’s see if this works: Let’s make every day Wil Wheaton Day!
Hey, no. Don’t do that.
why would you do that?
Well one show being smarter than the other doesn’t automatically make it Superior it’s just one advantage it has over the other. It’s like if we compared Steven Universe to Adventure Time now a days. Sure Adventure time has its ups and downs but there are still plenty of episodes you can watch well have you engaged or mildly entertained at best. Though now a days it will sometimes give you episodes were some of the writers are trying their damn near hardest to try to be artsy and make episodes that are smart but also so overly complicated and highly elaborate that they loose most of their audience try to convey what ever message they were trying to convey, and that goose for both the child and adult audience alike.
Then you got Steven universe, a show that might be slightly over hyped due to its fan base putting it on a pedestal but still has a lot of merits to be admired. The shows overall idea brings episodes that are also somewhat complicated in intelligence, witt, and relatable emotion; but at the same time it can be clear and coherent enough to convey itself to its audience without being lost in thought and on top of that it still also doesn’t give up leaving its other goal to entertain to achieve that unlike some of the recent Adventure Time.
Now I’m not saying you should dumb down the message of story just to appeal to a certain audience because I think a clever story can be appreciated no matter what age you are, I just think that having something to your series that has better quality to it than most other stories might good but that doesn’t determine weather it’s Superior to another. Especially if the other has overall better quality in certain other fields….but then again I guess the real deciding factor is really taste in what you prefer.
Not to mention that a show being “smarter” might mean sacrificing accessibility and other things that matter.
I love Serial Experiments Lain, but that’s not gonna be something people can just relaxingly ease into after a long day. Nor should they necessarily feel they have to.*
*And since nerd culture is what it is, I also don’t think liking “smarter” or more niche work actually makes you more intelligent or interesting. Something can be both popular and enjoyable and personally, it’s pretty awesome when something I like is also popular enough to be a common point of conversation and reference with a general population.
Serial Experiments Lain is one of those anime that the first two times I saw it, I didn’t get it at all, and I came away with a sense of, “Man I do not get what all the fuss is about on that one.”
… then I re-watched it in my mid-20s and suddenly it clicked. I had an, “Oooooh, I get it now!” moment.
…. but yeah it’s definitely not a show you relax into after a busy day. It’s more one you devote a day off to watching so you can pay your full attention to it like it deserves.
(as opposed to The Legend of Korra, which is totally something you can relax into even if it deals with heavier stuff – I am not going to totally lose the plot if I get distracted for a minute or two like I will with Lain)
It also serves as a reminder that “smarter” shows can sometimes be literally inaccessible. I was thinking of showing my gf Lain, but she’s visually impaired and a lot of things in Lain are communicated with visuals, so she literally can’t access the show in the same way I can because of disability.
And that tends to be a common thing in a lot of “smarter” shows. That they take full advantage of their medium, which means that those who can’t access the full aspect of the medium can be left in the cold.
I have a friend with a similar problem such that he can only watched dubbed anime, when proper anime fans only watch subtitled anime.
Which means a lot of anime is unavailable to him, and much of the rest has terrible voice acting.
I am kind of weird in that in order for me to absorb content, I need subtitles or closed captioning – otherwise I can’t absorb or retain the information.
In retrospect, this might be why the first two attempts at Lain didn’t stick for me – dialog subtleties matter in it, unlike in a simpler show like Avatar: The Last Airbender. I can’t access media with subtle audio parts unless I’ve got subs.
The way the conversation has flowed the last few days to make it abundantly clear that Wally must be right at each step of the way is a little comical.
But, because ‘zomg my entertainment is smaaaaaaaaart’ is a thing that needs to die in a ditch if entertainment nerds are to move on as a people, yes. There are a lot of ways for a show to be good. Cleverness is one way, but there are others. You can show character drama well, you can engage in engrossing world building, you can be funny, you can have amazing production values, provide fertile ground for fanwork, provide subversive and important messages for kids, or otherwise pull off any of a dozen other fragments that make up a work, well. There’s a lot of value in any step, people can favor what they want. It can be important to recognize limitations as well.
Yeah, one of the interestingly ignored aspects of nerd culture is how “intelligence” is sometimes used as a cudgel just as toxic as obsessing about how many girls you bang dispassionately or how little you can care about the plight of other people.
Specifically, I’m talking about how places like Silicon Valley are filled with a weird nerd culture belief that being “super smart” somehow buys you out of being sexist, racist, or homophobic and having expertise in one field somehow means you must be the smartest person on every field everywhere and your solutions will single-handedly save the world if only your genius was recognized.
And at even more toxic levels, how it is used as a means of justifying sexism and racism by deeming women or racial minorities as somehow inherently less “intelligent” and somehow more savage and animal-like (often with a dash of and therefore I deserve to win over them financially and be awarded the prize of a pliant wife or a marginalized-person-free fandom).
This doesn’t mean the whole thing is toxic, but that it can be used as a nasty cudgel and the behaviors of using it as a nasty cudgel are frequently promoted on the internet in harmful ways to others. Not to mention society destroying “innovations” which are basically just fancy ways of saying “fuck you, I got mine and I deserve my permanent serf underclass in return”.
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: That hurt in his eyes. He’s misinterpreting what she said, but his feelings are real and as much as he pretended to not understand Carla’s point from earlier, he still has his own deep connection to a work that served as a key part of his childhood.
And I think the “our” is a big part of that. Others have noted (and I’m sorry, but I forget who at the moment) that Walky views MM&D as a thing he shares with people close to him. He shared it with his sister. He tried to share it with Billie and he had a big elaborate plan on how to convert his future gf or future Gary into a diehard MM&D fan so he could share it with her.
To him, that’s what’s at the corner piece of the show, so part of his hurt here that he should actually talk about, oh my bob* is that he doesn’t want to feel alone with his show again.
*The way young men are socialized to never show vulnerability or talk out their feelings in a healthy way really fucking sucks and seems to be a major source of frustration for friends who have partners who are cis men… (not to mention a likely source for depressed men avoiding seeking out support when they are in crisis) 🙁
Panel 2: And that’s an important distinction laid down nicely. You can tell by her eyebrows that she’s a little annoyed here, but cares deeply about not hurting his feelings, but she’s also not going to let herself be spun into the bad guy for refusing to be dragged into a nerd fight.
Panel 3: I’ve noted it above, but damn do I love that he actually recognizes his bad behavior here even as he is in the process of defensively doubling down. Cause it’s a sign that he can really improve as a person simply by taking that recognition into action.
And that second line. Ugh, I’m not a fan of this type of construction in relationships, because that whole “back me up no matter what or you’re against me” is just so wrapped into social pressure. I dunno, I actually have especially negative reactions to it, because of former relationship stuff involving some gaslighting framed in a similar “why won’t you side with me” style.
And I also see it too often in friends’ relationships with super douchey or abusive guys where they try and leverage “don’t make me look bad” in public to belittle their partners for having their own differing opinions. (Definitely not saying that Walky is doing that, just noting where I personally feel intense glarey feelings towards that construction because of lived experiences).
Panel 4: Soft, rarely spoken first name in a non-trans context… that’s never a good thing and always means that what comes next is intended as a serious and important statement that needs to be heard.
Panel 5: Dorothy devotes a lot of tact here. Bringing this up when they are alone rather than outside during the argument, being very careful to highlight the importance MM&D and Walky himself have to her.
But she’s also not gonna snow him. This is how she feels about it and she probably recognized that a big reason MM&D took off and Ultra Car floundered is that the former was seen as marketing to boys and thus was more backed and advertised. And that’s such a common experience for girl fans of things, to see what you love mistreated, ill-supported, and treated as garbage that it’s not something Dorothy was going to ignore or left unsaid, especially as he seemed oblivious to how much he was using how wrapped up in winning the nerd fight that he was ignoring what Carla was actually saying.
Panel 6: Oh, Walky… you danged idjit. I know, it makes sense for him to be hurt, he wears his ego on his sleeve and he’s not used to being called out for things in this particular way.
And his lack of self-awareness here is staggering, continuing to try and cling to this misinterpretation that because she liked another cartoon or thought it was smarter even though “their” cartoon has more personal resonance, in order to justify his hurt feelings. And it’s one of those moments where Walky is just kinda being a bit of a git.
Because the unstated undercurrent in Panel 5 is that when Walky was shitting on Ultra Car for being unpopular and being cancelled and so on, he was shitting on something Dorothy actually liked as well and which she was aware had been cancelled for likely sexist reasons.
Not to mention that she’s a feminist whose favorite movie is Persepolis. She’s used to things she loves being found really off-the-beaten track and not getting the same wide release as something intended to market to the coveted 15-20 boy demographic.
So for him, after having down this accidental dismissal to two separate people in one instance, to pretend it is him who is the victim of this is kinda rich and kinda super annoying.
I dunno, given events of the last few years, I’m especially low on sympathy for overgrown man babies that treat light gentle nuanced critique from a feminist lens as some personal attack on all they hold dear.
I sympathize with Walky, but mostly in a “oh you poor little thing why’d you have to go swimming in the deep end of the pool” sort of way. I’m laughing, but it’s a sympathetic “I’ve been there and I relate even if I’ve grown out of it” sort of laugh.
If Walky had a lot more emotional power in this relationship, I’d be worried. He doesn’t and he’s harmless. As is, I’m expecting either a clear conversation with him being hurt for a bit, or a harmless temper tantrum over the next 24 hours which she’ll deal with maturely, or a breakup that she’ll deal with equally maturely. (Though I think she’ll have earned the right to a few minutes of self-indulgent angst, if she wants.)
What I’m wondering about is why D&MM holds a closer place in Dorothy’s heart. Is it that she didn’t recognize its value at the time, but came back later in life and saw it more clearly through more mature eyes? Is it that it has qualities other than smartness that appeal to her? (Not at ALL a metaphor for her relationship with Walky, nope, nope, nope.) Is it that it was a point for bonding with friends, that she valued at the time for the relationships it helped strengthen and later for the memories it brings?
I would agree. He’s annoying, but he doesn’t have his teeth in like some of the more aggressive forms of nerds who are men. So I’m not at all worrying about Dorothy’s safety here, more just shaking my head going, oh, Walky, no…
On, D&MM’s impact on Dorothy, she’s hinted at pieces before:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/05-media-rumble/borrow-2/
It seems like it’s part a connection to a childhood nostalgia as well as a tool she can use to turn off her over-working brain and just veg out to. Plus, there’s some regrets that she’s been forcing herself to be the super adult super early to meet her dreams and she might partially regret not fully letting herself be a kid longer or letting herself just enjoy silly things without worrying about potential future consequences when running for president (see her worries about enjoying her sexuality more openly).
I feel bad for Walky right now – mainly because I totally recognize that place of “I know that I am not reacting to this in an emotionally mature manner but I have no skills for reacting in an emotionally mature way and besides, I’m pissed off dammit!”
The biggest thing I would recommend for folks in Walky’s shoes is learn when you need to take a break or a step back from a conversation. If you catch yourself about to say something nasty, or you’re biting back acid words, that’s a good sign you’re about to lose it and you’re running on empty in the temper-control gas tank. If you blow up, it will do more damage than good the vast majority of the time (like, at least 98% of the time). Instead of blowing up, say something like, “I need to take a break because I’m not able to process this rationally right now. Can we come back to it when I’ve had a bit of time to calm down?”
And then leave, and go for a walk. Walk for at least a half hour or longer – until you no longer feel angry words in your head and are able to try to take the perspective of the other person. Try to figure out where you might be misunderstanding where the other person is coming from and where they might be misunderstanding you. Most of the time, if both parties are reasonable people* and you’re talking about something that matters, arguments arise from misunderstanding what the other person is saying and/or where they’re coming from, not necessarily from some fundamental mismatch in beliefs or opinions.**
Then you can go back and re-start the discussion with a cooler head and hopefully a fresh perspective.
*a big assumption in some cases, I admit
** Exception being in religious arguments or when dealing with a bigot. In which case my advice is don’t waste your time trying to find a point of agreement. Instead, tell them that you don’t think there’s any point in continuing the conversation as all it’s going to do is get you both (more) pissed off, state that you both have irreconcilable differences on that point, and leave it at that. Unless the conversation in question is a deal-breaker for you in which case feel free to end the relationship. Which I’ve only had to do a couple times but yeah. I don’t like ultimatums on principle, but some things genuinely are deal-breakers for me – and naked bigotry is one of them. I don’t issue an ultimatum unless I’m willing to follow through on it – and typically only after I’ve tried and failed with more gentle forms of correction.
That’s all very good advice, but I’d add two more things to it.
1) Stop investing yourself and your self esteem in having people agree with you. Recognize that apathy, dislike, and even disdain for the things you love is not aimed at YOU, but rather one particular thing you like. People have different tastes and you should let them have them without charging to attack them for the differences.
I think part of this fear (for me, at least, before I learned to defuse it) was that for a while during my formative years I perceived myself as an out-group person. Yeah, I’m white and male and from a reasonably prosperous background, but I was a geek and nerd and didn’t make friends easy and wasn’t into the cool fads of the moment, so I felt persecuted even if relatively speaking I had it easy and even if much of it was just in my own mind, and I was far from aware of the far harder stuff that other groups were going through. I was constantly worried about receiving this sort of criticism about things I liked, and perceived this as linked to my own quality and worth as a person. Thus I was quick to equate attacks against my interests with attacks against myself and was quick to “counterattack” (even if I’d never been attacked at all), sometimes becoming the very type of assailant I was afraid of. Making the disconnect, divorcing my conception of self from my fandoms, brought me huge emotional stability, helped me engage in genuine relationships, and removed much of that fear.
Walky, obviously, has serious fandom issues. It’s complicated because D+MM HAS played a huge role in his relationship with Dorothy, but that objectivity would serve him very well in this moment.
2) Learning to empathize. Empathy doesn’t come naturally to me. I’m an introvert with social anxiety issues, and my immediate gut reaction to other people is along the lines of “go away” or “I’m happier on my own” or “you’re invading my space” and above all “this person is a threat to me”. While I’m capable of empathizing (sometimes too strongly… I don’t keep my own emotions too well when other people are in pain), for a while in my life that fear reaction tended to override that.
What really helped me was writing (fiction) and role-playing games. This forced me to learn the skill of getting into the head of someone other than me, even if it is a fictional character, understanding their motives and world view and how all of this shapes what’s going on in their head, and do it in an intellectual level that my emotions weren’t ready to match. Obviously I wouldn’t magically know what was going on in the heads of the people around me, but the question became interesting and I started getting focused on trying to comprehend where other people were coming from, rather than just hoping they’d leave me alone and erecting defensive barriers to keep them at a distance.
Walky has serious empathy problems that derive less from an inability to relate to or apathy towards other peoples’ feels, and more from being too caught up in himself to notice them. He’s got a very solo “my problems are mine and yours are yours so let’s all mind our own business” attitude, and his approach to his own issues is to either lay them off as a joke or bottle them up and never let anyone see them ever. I don’t know what motivates him in that… I’d guess he’s got some social model of coolness he’s trying to conform to. For me, it was a more basic fear response. Cultivating a bit of empathy let me stop regarding people as deliberately and automatically out to find an opening to hurt me and instead see them as just… well, people. That was a huge step for me being able to openly acknowledge shortcomings to others, which in turn was an essential part in overcoming them. … you know, the ones I’ve actually managed to overcome. It’s one of Walky’s major obstacles to growth, on any subject.
Now that I think of it, that MIGHT be a good attitude to have if Mike is your roommate. He might not be the sort of person to divulge sensitive secrets to. On the other hand… Ethan’s openness with Mike makes a certain amount of sense to me, because the alternative of not sharing is insidiously cowardly. In the sense of you learn to fear and you let the fear take over.
The contrast between Walky and Dorothy on this subject (and I might be projecting more than is actually there) is stark and almost painful. Dorothy’s openness and honesty is awesome, and…. kinda alien and intimidating to me. Like, no way I could ever see myself being that perfectly authentic.
oh hi there, me.
1 and 2 are both important, yes. 1 didn’t occur to me because genuinely speaking I’ve never been someone who likes what it’s expected of me to like so that ship sailed when I was like four but it is a good thing to point out, and 2 I didn’t mention because autistic and cognitive empathy is hard in real time. Actually, it’s hard after the fact, too, but it’s damn near impossible in real time. Which is part of why I advocate getting space and time for a breather – space and time allows me to try to cognitive empathy.
How exactly is Persepolis a feminist film? Isn’t it more about how Muslims ruin everything?
are you fucking serious
…Did you pay attention at all during that film?
No.
No, it is not.
A crestfallen Walky, his head hung low, slowly walked from the room.
He walked on, with unseeing eyes, his feet moving one in front of the other, until he was outside the building, then off the campus, then outside town.
He continued to walk until he reached the edge of a great ocean.
And then he walked on still, until he disappeared beneath the breaking waves, never to be seen again.
Some ten seconds after he submerged, a torrent of noxious gas bubbled to the surface, as if final proof that he could not contain a passing fart joke.
Smart and successful are not the same thing. A cerebral film may be smarter than an action movie, that doesn’t mean the cerebral film is worse than the action movie just because it didn’t gross as much. A film may be more emotional, push more and different buttons than an action film, but just because it grossed less doesn’t mean it’s not worth anything.
So very much agree with this!
Tastes are subjective and depending on what you like and what resonates with you, you can end up liking vastly different works for vastly different reasons or find one work most people shrug at extremely important and groundbreaking.
On the other hand, a cerebral film isn’t necessarily better either. Things can be dumb fun and still really good. Something can be smart and still not good.
Man
Walky’s stupid
I too, have a borderline irrational dislike of people, particularly men, who act infantile. It just places an undue burden on the other person to tip toe around their wants and needs and feelings. I still don’t see how a simple conversation turned into a thing – perhaps Walky is afraid that Dorothy doesn’t take home seriously as a person? Maybe he doesn’t see a connection between the way he acts and the way people perceive him? Maybe it’s as simple as they’re young, barely out of teen years and everything in relationships is a big deal at that point. And he’s perfectly aware her- he just wants to get into it, but doesn’t want to really get into it, y’know what I mean?
I’ll preface this by saying I’m playing devil’s advocate here.
Its unnecessary for Dorothy to like everything Walky likes, and she doesn’t need to take his side all the time for him to feel secure in their relationship. But, I find that although Walky is definitely being insensitive here, it goes both ways. There are perfectly respectable men who read comics and play video games. If he respects Dorothy’s aspirations, Dorothy needs to respect Walkys ways of life – I mean to the extent that they don’t harm anyone, that is. She should indeed call him out on his crap, but over the course of the comic I’ve been getting the sense that she either didn’t realize who he is completely and she’s been getting more than someone to screw around with till she transfers – which complicates the end game.
Or that she’s been trying to fix him.. I may be off base with this. If she isn’t going to be with him much longer, why is she so invested in the way he acts? Or how he dresses? Walky was already feeling insecure, but her (normal, but to Walky high because he feels intimidated by her- again, his problem) expectations seem to make Walky feel inadequate. Add to that that Walky might like the Monkey show, but it could also be that he too used the show as a way to get away from his own shitty stuff, even though he won’t put it in so many words. It might not be a (valid) thesis paper of a reason, but simply having something to enjoy is also a form of escapism as well.
I think this relationship could actually make them both grow as characters. Walky in particular may realize becoming more mature will help in all realms of life, especially his relationships. Dorothy realizes that to get to where she needs to go, she’ll inevitably be constantly thinking about who she associates with, how they make her look, and be willing to leave them behind to get ahead, more than she might be comfortable with- which inevitably results in some bridges getting burned rather than crossed.
I find Walky annoying pretty often definitely, but Dorothy’s interactions with him also rub me the wrong way for some reason, sometimes. Maybe I think theyre not that great together. And lm sure she didn’t mean it like that, but calling someone by their first name in that manner, unless you are their parent is terribly condescending.
Oops, meant as a reply to Cerberus.
Yeah, I can see a lot of that.
Honestly, I think Walky’s reflexive defensiveness about his fragile ego and weird definitions of what it means to be a man is a major flaw that he needs to overcome and that this is similar to how Dorothy needs to overcome her impulse that just because she tends to be the more “mature” person in a relationship and there’s strong social pressure on girlfriends to be “mothers” to more immature boyfriends, she shouldn’t actually be trying to mother her boyfriends or feel like it is on her personally to improve them as people.
In that way, they might be exactly what each other needs now, but not at all for very long. Like, Walky has on several occasions rebuffed and called out Dorothy for being overly hovery and intrusive into his life and his choices in ways that have got her to stop and examine herself.
And Dorothy has countered some of Walky’s more egregious examples of aggressive manchildosity and his attempts to demand a very limited and specific type of “support”.
But yeah, in the long run it is good they have a planned expiration date, because it should definitely not be on either of them to solve each other’s flaws and aspects of each of them set off some of their behaviors in the first place (Walky being so defensive about seeking out help encourages Dorothy to feel like it’s on her to baby him, especially when his parents are encouraging her to fit that role. And Dorothy getting meddly tends to set off Walky’s reflexive independent streak in ways that can block him seeking help when he genuinely needs it.
It’s honestly, kinda super interesting to analyze from the outside.
I agree- and that’s the way I’d put it- it’s like she’s mothering him but she ought not to be, because it’s Walky s job to grow up and that is so much unnecessary and taxing emotional work, from a feminist perspective.
Dang phone – meant as a reply to Cerberus, again
Something that everyone has to learn at some point is that the things we like, and even the things we believe, aren’t the same as who we are.
And that it is possible to talk about and criticize the former without it being an attack on the latter.
So if Walky and Dorothy break up at some point, all of the Dumbing of Age Slipshine comics will be of people who are no longer together… is being Slipshine’d a curse?
Becky and Dina must never have a Slipshine. This is a moral imperative now.
I think being a teenage freshman couple who hook up within the first month of meeting each other in a college dorm is a curse.
Danny and Amber are definitely permanently done, but I’m not convinced Billie and Ruth are over, much to my consternation. Billie just kind of angrily tells Ruth to fuck off because Ruth’s being a jerkass, while Danny basically soliloquizes at length about what he wanted from the relationship and how it all went down. There’s way more finality with the way Danny/Amber ended than with Billie/Ruth.
Of course, Ruth and Billie need to end someday, partly because it’s a theoretically endless narrative so every couple has to end at some point with the arguable exception of Becky/Dina, partly because Billie and Ruth can never really get healthy because then they stop being Billie and Ruth, and partly because I need Ruth/Carla to happen.
Ruth as she is now definitely can’t be in a relationship healthily, no. Billie or not.
I mean, I prefer Ruth/Billie, but knock yourself out, it’s all good (I’m holding out for Carla/Sal). Ruth and Billie have been over like twice already, so at this point I’m actually in need of fireworks or something to believe it’s done, personally. Heck, this one looks less done than either of the first two.
Maybe I’m just officially Old now, but cartoons are not worth getting this upset about. Watch what you like, buy the DVDs you want, but don’t go picking fights with people because their tastes differ from yours.
If that’s being old, then I was old when I was young.
I think it’s more a “type of person” issue rather than a “X isn’t worth getting this upset about”. Whatever the topic, whether it’s cartoons or sports or religion or politics or video games, there seems to be a minority who’s way, WAY too quick to take up arms to defend any insults, no matter slight, against their chosen passion. And they’ll take it to ridiculous lengths too, from sports fan who’ll riot and burn cars when their team loses, to the Gamergate brouhaha, to people like the Westboro Baptist Church.
“Haha, just kidding Walky … they’re both mind-bendingly stupid, and seriously, what point would there be to trying to decide which is more mind-bendingly stupid? It would be like grading untreated sewer outflow…”
celebrating my birthday with dumbing of age, reread for the 3rd time and counting, keep em cartoons goin dorowalky
Walky… she’s not even insulting it. She’s just saying that something else may have been better in some ways even if she still really likes Monkey Master. I mean I guess since you think UltraCar is trash you’ve completely jumped the gun but…
Like just because you don’t like something doesn’t make something bad. Just because you like something doesn’t mean it is the bastion of perfection for all media to follow. Everything has failings or caters to different tastes than yours.
Like it’s like- I really like Harry Potter- it’s an important part of my childhood, but it’s far from a perfect book series. The last book is pretty much an utter snorefest for instance with purple prose out the wazoo. And I’m pretty sure when Dorothy decided to keep quiet about Amazigirls identity she talking about a season she didn’t like? I think Dotty can like something and be aware of certain failings or things other franchises did better.
HP is important to me. But it’s far from perfect and there are /far/ better series out there.
Like people have different tastes man. You like Monkey Master only between the two, Carla likes Ultracar only and Dorothy likes both and possibly even likes your show for slightly different reasons than you do. Deal. I’m sure there’s someone who dislikes both out there but just don’t choose to voice it loudly unless you were especially obnoxious about it. (And you kind of usually are Walky with your nerd dick measuring contesting even before you and Dotty got together so… perhaps someone like Carla was inevitable for you).
All the this. And yeah, I think him bumping into a Carla was inevitable because Dorothy straight up notes that he’s been doing this nerd dick measuring contest thing and insulting things that are super personal for people for awhile now.
And he’s encountered a number of people hurt by that or who’ve swallowed it and bit their tongue and he’s even been called out once or twice, but it was only a matter of time before the way he’s put his ego in fighting people over not cottoning to his particular views on the world was going to lead to a full-on knockdown drag-out argument like it did with Carla.
And if he doesn’t learn from it, he’s going to continue to stumble into moments like that and alienate a fair few people along the way.
called it
social issues are even rooted into things like cartoons so yeah
Walky is going to have a hard time in the real world if he can’t learn to accept that other people’s opinions are equally valid (even if hearing them reduces him to a toddler).
Seems to me like people can get by perfectly fine being viciously intolerant against others.
It’s practically a worldwide hobby.
Grow the fuck up Walky.
You’ll never get a tie on him, you Windsor Nazis.
Not only the goal matters ; the journey to it is, as well.
Need sadface walky gravatar nao! Like RIGHT NAO
BTW, I don’t think anyone’s said this yet, but I love the element of callback in Walky’s Panel 6 face.
His mouth is the same mouth as Carla is sporting here. That’s a murderin’ mouth. Well… not exactly, but that’s a “I have beheld the abomination, and instantly I summoned unto me all the Furies of the world that I might smite it down lo before it took one more step.”
But Walky isn’t feeling that. The eyes don’t lie, and his eyes say his mouth-expression is complete bunk.
He’s trying not to cry.
I wonder how long it’s been since Walky watched Ultracar? Maybe being older would make him appreciate it more?
I’d almost hope so but the level of immaturity he’s displaying in this fight makes me doubt it
Doubt it. The bits that were legible in Carla’s argument about why it’s smart are the sorts of things that would appeal to Dorothy, but not Walky.
Yup.
I think he was being honest when he says the fart jokes and the cultural memes resonated strongly with him and that’s what makes it awesome for him. And that’s fair. People are allowed to like work with more body function humor and references and think that’s what makes a work great.
But it does mean that a work that tries to avoid that humor might not really work for him and things like thinking deeply about gender and the like are things he actively avoids doing, so yeah, if he was forced to watch it, he would probably absolutely hate it and think it was boring and annoying.
1. I’m conflicted.
On one side, I agree with Dotty’s assessment of the situation. The fight about the cartoons did seem to be a little out of hand, considering how it went.
On the other, THOSE PUPPY EYES AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHH
…
2. This will only end one of two ways:
a.) They will break up.
b.) They will have sex.
I’m not sure which to root for at this point.
Or they could, you know, hug.
No, hugging has been tragically forbidden by the Cuddle Council.
You do not want to mess with the Hug Police.
We, the Hug Police, are a national security force
Working directly for the government!
The Hug Police, lurking in the darkness,
Oversees and controls all of the spying!
From morning to night, we will keep our watch on you!
We the members of the Hug Resistance stand against you! No longer will you decide who deserves hugs!
VIVA LA HUGS!
#3 shows Walky’s self-aware he is being irrational. He is smart enough to know when he isn’t being smart.
This isn’t a breakup situation, this is a Walky enjoys arguing over cartoons situation.
Yeah, I think that too… Cartoons are being used as a tool for figuring out their relationship, here. “Couldn’t you at least side with me?” etc etc
Yeah, which is why I think Dorothy’s rebuffing here is necessary because it’s important that Walky knows that Dorothy, in general in the relationship, will support him and talk him up and cares deeply about him, but she’s not really the type of person who’ll just take his side no matter how she feels just because they’re dating.
And it’s kind of important for Walky to know that now so this doesn’t raise up in something far more important and genuinely relationship-threatening.
Oh my HEAVENS! How could anyone resist that heartbroken look? 😀
Easily.
God dammit, Walky! You petulant child!
I’m not one to get into comparing texts for the purpose of ranking*. It’s just not my thing really. With that disclaimer, using the term “smart” seems like a poor stand in for something more specific that the person is failing to capture accurately. I can definitely see why that descriptor would be important to Dorothy, Carla and Walky, but it leaves me pretty cool on them.
*Comparing texts to see how they deal with certain ideas or concepts of that is up my alley, I more mean directly comparing the entirety of works.
Oh dear, Walky’s sad puppy eyes are heartwrenching.
Dorothy you monster, how can you make Walky so sad.
*Sigh* And here’s why Dorothy will never be President.
I’d never noticed the Persepolis poster before. Nice!
Dorothy rockin’ the Persepolis poster!
If these two break up, I shall be extremely peeved. They’re the most entertaining couple on the show, by far.
(I mean, strip. Sorry, this is seriously reminding me of a soap opera)