Or for Trump, his tiny hands indicate a tiny penis and a large belly. The large belly is obvious. The small penis is not obvious, which is pretty much the whole point.
a) Funny though it was, in the original apperance it says so clearly shes a mutant I think this was a pure joke – I cant believe it was a really a legal thing that would stand up in court.
b) Squirrel girls fantastic. Got all the trades so far. looking forward to the OGN
===
Magnato issue is meanwhile . Marvels sliding time scale causes age problems.
The line now is that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are humans who were genetically altered by the High Evolutionary. Polaris is now Magneto’s only kid.
This would be shocking if anybody in the universe gave a crap about them.
I thought it was a little of both. They are Magneto’s kids, but were raised by Bova the bipedal cow-woman, who is just one of the High Evolutionary’s genetically tweaked servants. And since the guy just can’t keep his hands off of anyone’s genes including his own, he also tweaked Wanda and Pietro’s genes for good measure.
I have some of the comics from 20+ years ago where this is shown. And also I think there was an evil magical being and/or a demon and/or a critter from another plane involved. I think Wanda got some of her magic from that encounter.
But recons are really the only constant in any comic book continuity, so who knows what the official word is these days, or if that official word will survive the next change of writers.
The Panter god told him he’s the only person who could rule the Earth and keep it safe IIRC. Also, gypsy mom, doctor dad, trained by Morgan Le Fay, at least as smart as Mr. Fantastic, used science to break into hell, time traveler, ex-cosmic being…
The scandal of Roz posting a sex video during the first week or so of school isn’t enough? (that was the whole reason behind Robin coming to visit the school in the first place)
That’s more her and Roz. I’m trying to figure out why Leslie is so infatuated with her and was curious if I missed something, like an offhand mention that they had a past together. Like a non-zany version of their initial relationship in Shortpacked.
Heh. My bad. I know you said LESLIE & Robin, but for some reason my brain thought ROZ & Robin. As for Leslie, it was just lust at first sight, I think.
Are you using the word “good” as in does well at the job of being a politician, or as in character alignment? Because I think the class “politician” automatically excludes any character of good alignment.
An effective politician. Tom Cruise, for example, is known for asking key grips about their son’s little league game even if it was five years ago that he last worked on a movie with the guy.
I guess I’m using “politician” as “representative,” Cruise being one of the biggest representatives of a specific “religion” around.
I swear I saw somebody with a “Magneto was Right” shirt that had Magneto crossed out, Logan written in, and “Cyclops is an @$$hole” at the bottom. I can’t find any proof.
haha Robin must not have a whole lot of people working for her if she has to keep Roz at the rally to make sure she doesn’t do anything
…idk. like. her options: keep Roz at the rally so she has a permanent eye on her; set Roz up in a nice hotel room with a permanent bodyguard; ask Roz nicely not to do anything; pretend Roz doesn’t exist and hope Roz forgets to do anything that might affect her?
….i d k. it really depends on Roz’s level of contrariness and how willing she is to get Robin’s attention and/or expose her to controversy.
“Campaign volunteer Studley McMuffin, your job is to spend the entire evening in this plush hotel room with the Congresswoman’s younger sister, who, and I can’t stress this enough, is of COMPLETELY LEGAL AGE.”
As much as I can understand Roz wanting to shatter Robin’s political facade, I’m honestly not really comfortable with this course of action, mainly because if everything works out according to plan, the end result is essentially Roz (and by extension Leslie) forcibly outing Robin, which is Not Okay.
Assuming that DoA Robin is Bi like Walkyverse/Shortpack Robin. That has not been confirmed.
I’m okay if she is, but then again, Leslie doesn’t have magical/psychic powers that allow her to Fall for someone and know ahead of time that this person will reciprocate the same way.
There is a chance Robin will be flattered, but turn Leslie down. Unless Roz knows something no one else does.
So, what are the odds that this version of Robin is straight?
Being a cis-straight male, I feel compelled to make the cliche statement that cleavage, as well as the part of the body that forms said cleavage, is always magical.
I’m hoping that’s not where this is headed, but the possibility of Robin being outed can’t have escaped Roz, even if its not directly part of her plan. I wouldn’t entirely rule it out though, since I really think Roz is has way more privilege and blind spots than she realizes. She’s way too into feeling smugly superior about how progressive she is. I could easily see her getting too wrapped up in her some kind of scheme to defeat Robin’s political agenda, and not even consider that she’s basically outing her sister, or setting her up to be outed, until things are already in motion.
Though we don’t even know if this Robin has even figured out she’s not 100% straight herself, so it’s possible that Roz is just hoping that realizing she’s into ladies (even if only the one) will cause Robin to reevaluate some of her platform.
There is just NO gray area at all with you, is there?
We don’t even know her stance on LGBT+ issues, or most things. We only really know that she’s vaguely conservative, and her electoral base would find women kissing to be scandalous. For all we know, that may only mean that she avoids those issues to stay in office, she wouldn’t necessarily have to oppose them to appease her base.
We don’t know her political position on ANYTHING. All we know is she’s marketing herself as a “family values” candidate and Leslie doesn’t like her politics. That’s it. And for that crime of being the conservative candidate, you would forcibly out her as bisexual in “as humiliating a way as possible so that an example is made for all such traitors”, to destroy her career and possibly her family life. You would ruin her and hurt her as much as possible because you don’t like her politics.
Fuck, even if we knew she was bisexual (more on that in the next paragraph) and that she supported anti-LGBT+ legislation, that still doesn’t justify outing her like that. LGBT+ people who openly support anti-LGBT+ legislation are usually the products of communities that have taught them all their lives that being gay is sinful and wicked, that it is something to be ashamed of and loathed. When these people start to realize that they’re not a -1 on the Kinsey scale, they feel shame and disgust with themselves. They react out of a need to atone or to prove something to themselves or their communities. These people do not need to be torn down. They need fucking HELP.
Anyway, there may not even be anything to out. Robin’s stated sexual orientation in SP! was “Straight with an exception”. She was not attracted to women generally, just Leslie specifically. Word of Willis being that orientation is preserved across continuums, and having only briefly met Leslie, she is, as far as she and anyone else is concerned, straight.
Robin is bi. Sexuality is constant across universes, and, whatever she may have said, Walkyverse Robin was a lot more bi than just “an exception”. Leslie was not the only, nor even the first, girl that Robin exhibited an attraction to. She was just the first one where Robin was willing to admit it to herself and others.
Even the “straight with an exception” self-description that everyone harps on is from fairly early in the evolution of Robin’s sexual identity. It changed as the story went on. The latest one was, IIRC, “kinda indefinably queer”.
I’ll be honest, it’s been too long since I read through SP! for me to clearly recall how she identified her sexuality, so I’m willing to admit a mistake and walk back that last paragraph.
Fuck no. Like Lailah, I question it being a good idea for practical reasons and hurting others (couldn’t give a shit about the happiness of the candidate in question myself) but the idea that hating those who hurt them makes them ‘just as bad’ or deserving of being hated and pissed on for their demographic which is shat on by society as it were is ridiculous and just plain wrong.
Like people who help produce that environment, who basically indirectly /kill/ so many people through their wider actions, are utterly fine to despise.
Retaliating against oppression is not on par with the initial oppression nor does it justify it. If I punch you in the fact and you slap me it doesn’t make my punching you retroactively justified.
It’s not often that I see “destruction” and “traitor” emanating from this side of things.
I’m going to take the an unconventional tack here, from what most are asking or saying. What do you think isn’t acceptable in opposing someone like Robin?
Two things here:
1: The Tories had better ethical and moral grounds than the revolutionaries. The revolutionaries were ultimately motivated by conquest and selfishness, with the elite acting entirely on their own destructive self interest (At the expense of the common folk). Unless you mean the still-extant british political party and not the Meriken ones, in which case knock yourself the fuck out.
2: No. Outing someone forcibly erodes the protections we can claim. Eroding those protections means it’s more acceptable for hte populace to out us. A non-trivial number of even those opposed to us do not believe they can just do this, and many who aren’t really on our side but don’t care also believe this. This is a hard-won benefit. This isn’t merely a moral issue (though it is also that, though self-defense does mitigate the /wrong/). This is a practical one. Do not sacrifice the long term for the short, particularly when the short won’t actually help much.
Yeah when I hear Tory I think of the UK party myself, didn’t even know there was a US version…
And this makes sense. I have no sympathy at all for such monsters- but it does send a dangerous precedent that there is some line you can cross where it’s okay for people to put your life in danger, entirely up to the person who finds out the truth… granted it could be argued that obviously such monsters have crossed it but still.
Like I hold no sympathy for the candidate at all (I’m sorry but I just can’t: they at least indirectly kill people through the societal environment they produce) but still: it can produce a dangerous environment for other people so we have to think about them. Not destroying a monster’s life with that particular method to potentially save others I guess. Sacrifices must be made, includes what you don’t do.
There’s also the fact they’re still wrong and disgusting regardless of any hypocrisy, as well as the fact, of course, there are people who try to promote ‘conversion therapy’ as a result anyway of outed. And it’s meaningless thing to do in some ways. They are disgusting pieces of shit regardless of sexuality and promote society basically torturing vulnerable people. Sure it potentially means the base of support might shift to a different candidate or they might lose that one election… but it does nothing to chance the views of the base of the support they had either- they’ll just go with someone else next time. It really is a short term gain as you say.
It also… idk, there’s lots of false accusations flung around too? And I kind of hate that in fiction especially the common thing with people bigoted against people who are not cis+het is to accuse them of being LGBT. Like I know for some it’s because they make being LGB especially sound so ‘tempting’ and all (because it can ‘corrupt’ so easily in their eyes) but it builds the false impression that somehow LGBT are just oppressing themselves when really it’s cis straight people’s fault entirely. It’s kind of a cop out really either way.
We need to destroy them as politicians without destroying them as humans. Potentially putting their lives and health in danger is something that belongs in the latter category.
This is the perfect response in every way possible. Interactions towards humans should always be meant to further or help them as individuals, but when they have a harmful public platform, then by all means dismantle IT but not THEM. I really like this response and the way you worded it
Forcibly outing someone is always vile and disgusting behavior. The idea that it’s a punishment for not “toeing the line” is abhorrent. That’s not self defense. And it sets a dangerous precedent where outing is a punishment for perceived “treachery” against the group. Forced outing should never be a punishment.
I have… a lot of concerns with what you’re saying here. Let me stick to the two biggest ones since I don’t want to write out a big ol’ wall of text.
First, the underlying premise of your statement: Forcibly outing a person is permissible in certain circumstances. This is not a position I can get behind. In my view, a person should only ever be outed by their own choice. No one should ever do it for them. Not friends, not family, and not vigilantes screaming “Death to traitors”. The idea that it is acceptable to do, even to people that are clearly awful, reminiscent of the idea that releasing of personal information to the net is okay, as long as it’s done to someone you don’t like, which is a terrible concept.
Second, even if we accept the premise that forcibly outing a person is permissible in certain circumstances, who decides what those circumstances are? You? The government? John Smith down the street? Getting a clear definition of “acceptable circumstances” sounds like a logistical nightmare.
On a much lighter, albeit pedantic note, Robin is not a Tory. There is no political group by that name in the United States. She is most likely a Republican, though she could belong to a third party that shares a similar platform. If you want to be generic, she’s a conservative.
Forcibly outing someone is permissible in certain circumstances. Flat out, no arguments.
The most obvious would be under oath in court. There is no 5th amendment equivalent “right to avoid outing someone”. It’s not likely to be asked directly, but the relationship between two people could easily become relevant to a case.
It’s not sacrosanct. There’s no great moral principle here where outing someone is always beyond the pale. It’s a secret and it’s a big one and it certainly shouldn’t be taken lightly, but it’s not the first and only consideration.
For example, would you refuse to testify against a murderer if your testimony would reveal he was gay? If not, then we’ve established there are some circumstances. The rest is figuring where the line is.
As for who decides – barring actual legal cases, where there are already rules in place – the person in the situation does so. Who else? Hopefully they do so wisely.
Like revealing any other personal secret, you weigh the consequences of revealing it against the consequences of not doing so and hope you can live with your decision.
In this particular case? I can’t say. We don’t know enough. We don’t know the details of Robin’s politics. We don’t know if she just pays lip service to get elected or if she’s instrumental in drumming up hatred against LGTBQ people and passing discriminatory laws. I’m not so much concerned about punishment as about keeping her from doing more harm. Most likely, in this case, it’s not worth it.
Right. Someone making the deliberate choice to out a closeted person in, say, a news publication is a very different beast than the scenario thejeff describes.
While they make some valid points, thejeff also did not address the larger point I was trying to make, which I did not explicitly state because the only thing less fun than reading a wall of text is writing one. That point is that Bad Things don’t magically become justified or stop being bad because they happen to people you don’t like or think are bad.
For example, let’s consider murder (because it isn’t an Internet debate until someone uses the most extreme example to illustrate their point). Murder is, I think we can all agree, a bad thing that should not happen. Now let’s think of that pharmaceutical asshole, Martin Shkreli. He is not a good person by any stretch of the imagination. If he were to die, I would not mourn him. I would even think that his death would result in a net benefit for humanity. But if that death were to come at the end of a man’s gun, I would not praise his killer, even in the privacy of my own mind, because I firmly believe that murder is wrong.
There is a disturbingly strong sentiment online (and offline as well, probably, but it’s most noticeable online) that if you can prove someone is “a terrible person” by some metric, any metric, that therefore justifies anything that happens to them, up to and including their violent death. Just a couple days ago, someone commented that they wished Amber would be shot, and when called to task on it, defended themselves by saying “she’s really annoying”. I’m all for characters getting their just desserts, particularly if it’s in an ironic fashion, but you can’t deny that this is disturbing.
Well, we haven’t reached the GEH yet, so we’re fine for now. But shot for being annoying? Maybe having to get a painful flu shot, but that’s as far as I’d go with the analogy.
Yes, it’s wrong to say that you can do anything to someone you can prove is a horrible person. But the opposite, that you can’t do anything and must treat them exactly the same as everyone else, is also just as wrong.
Bringing up murder muddles the conversation, as there are very few situations where it is allowable, and they all involve saving the life of yourself or others.
Outing a politician who is anti-gay is not about punishment. It’s about stopping them from being able to be anti-gay. Either they don’t actually believe it, or are self-hating.
Outing someone is merely telling a secret. And there are plenty of times when telling a secret is allowable. And like I say in a post lower down, I think it’s your ethical duty to out an anti-gay politician if you can. That one politician and his career doesn’t matter more than the people he is persecuting.
I forgot, is Roz planning to get Leslie to try to out her sister? If so, that’s dumb. Like, I already said it’s not ethical and harmful, but that’s also a /bad plan/. So yeah, comic book supervillain.
Discovering she’s queer (assuming she hasn’t yet) would no doubt have an affect her politics by itself. Or wanting to be able to have an non-secret relationship with Leslie might.
I can still see Roz considering some kind of blackmail before realizing how horrible that is, though
I will definitely grant that I could be misreading Roz’s gameplan entirely, though regardless I hope she’s at least somewhat cognizant of the potential for Robin to be outed.
I’m sorry, but I disagree completely and vehemently. If the person runs on an anti-gay platform, it is 100% okay to out them. In fact, it’s your ethical duty. People who don’t out them are allowing other gay people to be persecuted by this person. Why does this asshole matter more than them?
It’s been a key part of the Gay Rights movement as long as I can remember. It’s kinda important. Slippery slope arguments don’t hold, as we are free to reevaluate whether it is okay to out someone in other circumstances.
And absolute ethics that say “X is never okay” don’t work. Name anything you say is wrong, and there will always be an exception. Stealing is wrong–unless you would die without it. Lying is wrong–except to save people’s lives. Killing someone is wrong–unless they are trying to kill you or others or commit grievous bodily harm.
The reason we don’t out people is that their orientation is not hurting anyone. If they wish to remain closeted, no one else is affected. This is not true if they are anti-gay. Then their orientation and self-hatred is causing them to lash out at millions of gay people. They can push things like gay conversion therapy, which is literally torture.
Even typing it into google (is it wrong to out an anti-gay politician) I can find no one who says it’s wrong.
Sure, maybe Robin doesn’t run on an anti-gay platform. We don’t know that for sure yet. But, if she does, then she should be outed. Nothing good comes from treating the bad person better than all the people they are hurting.
Gather around, ladies, gentlemen, and nonbinary individuals. What we have here is a simply magnificent work of literature, the likes of which the world has heretofore never observed. “A”. Shakespearean in its elegance, Hemingwayesque in its simplicity. Absolutely sublime.
But what do you suppose it means? What do the gently sloping sides of the letter “A” symbolize? What is the author saying with the dramatic, almost jarring placement of the perfectly horizontal cross bar? What do you make of the author’s use of the Latin alphabet as opposed to Arabic or Hebrew?
I think the author has given us more questions than answers and, in so doing, has invited us to reflect deeply on how we perceive not only the written word, but text itself.
*Crosses arms.* Fine, the color of three out of five of my top five Spiders, with Gwen and Miguel above them. Spider-boy would be my #1, but he barely existed when he did exist and doesn’t anymore, so…
Are you happy now that my joke is dead? (I am. Yours was fun.)
Sorry Roz, but that’s Xavier’s job. How do you think he ended up in that wheelchair? Bullet to the spine? Horrible accident? Osteoporosis? Nope, it was incredibly kinky sex on both the physical and mental levels.
To her credit, Roz’s real motive is to make her sister and her favourite teacher happy. Someone has to sit her down and tell her that she doesn’t have to make everything sound like she’s a monster. I just wonder who told her that this was her role?
Her sister did by treating her as a toxic destructive force who needs to be managed to not destroy everything. Her society did by labeling a sexually active woman as evil and wicked.
Roz feels like she’s so used to being seen as the villain, so she’s decided to embrace it. Not fully internalizing that she’s not actually evil and actually has a pretty strong morality (Joyce dressing down not withstanding).
I’m guessing Roz isn’t yet completely immune to adults sternly telling her to do things. Especially ones she has to see on holidays and who know embarrassing things about her
Panel 2: Oh Leslie, no. Also, it’s adorable that she literally couldn’t wait until the next day to see the woman she’s been crushing on.
Panel 3: Wait. Did Leslie just slut shame Roz because she was embarrassed at getting caught being thirsty at the DeSanto rally?
Not cool, Leslie. Even if Roz didn’t take it that way and was somewhat flattered by the pun work.
And even if it wasn’t meant that way, they don’t already have a culture of established mutual ribbing and Roz is her student even if she is working to hook her up with her sister. So even if it wasn’t intended as slut shaming, it’s still wildly inappropriate as a teacher and Leslie is gonna need to start establishing better boundaries, especially where Roz is concerned since the majority of her unprofessionalism occurs with her.
I assumed it was meant as a recognition of the campaign’s stance and a fun pun, but if Leslie had meant that, that is pretty uncool. But you’re right about better boundaries.
Like Lailah, I think it was more of a ribbing. Remember that Leslie took Roz’s side against Robin during that whole debacle; even if somewhat nervously (possibly because she was already getting a bit weak in the knees at having Robin in the same room). And I am pretty sure that at the very least, Leslie would never -intend- to slut-shame someone. And yes, I know it’s oh-so-easily to do it unintentionally… But then again, so does Leslie, not only from teaching gender studies, but from personal experiences from being lesbian.
And while they don’t necessarily have an established history of ribbing, I think it is very heavily implied by Leslie’s general attitude as a teacher. I mean, she started out with a gentle ribbing within ten seconds of entering the room for her first lesson. I reckon that practically all of her lessons have had elements of the same.
Now, Roz may not have been the main target of it, but I feel confident that at the very least, she’s enjoyed the ribbings of Joe, and that it’s one of the reasons she even shows up in class instead of just showing up for the tests and assume she’ll ace them because she (thinks she) knows everything about gender studies already.
BUT, on the other hand, the whole damn situation with Roz/Robin/Leslie is in my opinion very problematic, from the very start; and that Robin is Leslie’s blind spot. I’m not sure how I can even explain it, but it’s just felt wrong somehow from the very second Roz asked Leslie to dress more revealingly for Robin, and Robin replying that she already had something in mind. It’s not the same as a teacher-student romantic relationship, but it still disrupts the teacher-student professional dynamic somehow, if you get what I mean.
I do think that situation is worse than (if I am right) a joke references to a video that Roz intended to be public and is very proud of, and that they have already discussed.
I see your point. Especially now that I remember that the previous interaction between the two of them was considerably less than amicable, Leslie was pretty lucky that was taken as intended.
Leslie definitely doesn’t have her teacher hat on at the moment
Panel 4: Oh, Roz… I feel so bad for her here. Sure, she’s making the best of things, but agency is not only important to Roz, it’s the most important thing to her. Her whole sex tape deal was an attempt to tell her sister that she was done being her pawn and yet Robin just bowled her over with the Dean and is back to the same old shit.
Whether it be yanking Riley out of school to “show her family values” or demanding Roz give up her evening so she can be “monitored”, Robin in this universe seems to view her family members largely as props to be put into play as needed, which isn’t a wholly unusual thing among politicians, but is definitely sad to see given how very against her sister’s politics, Roz is.
And the worst part of this is she’s come to school to try and escape the controlling political environment of her sister and make her own path, but when she goes home in the evening, she’s somehow going home to someone who manages to be even worse in the form of Mary.
Panel 5: And that frustration is boiling over here. Like, this idea that she can’t just enjoy an evening, maybe have a nice bonk because her sister is in town and it’s time for her to be her sister’s political pawn and be treated like something toxic and inherently destructive is pretty awful. And imagining that it’s been 2 or so years of this straight, I can see why Roz is fed up and done.
Panel 6: Oh good, Leslie is aware of the lack of boundaries she’s been practicing with Roz. Good for her. (I mean, I understand her attraction and the fact that she’s letting Roz set her up with her sister is already going to mean a bad boundary, but she can try and minimize the damage that’s likely to do)*.
*And I don’t dislike Leslie. In fact, I love Leslie and her class structure. This is just her fatal flaw as every character has one.
Also, I’m happy Roz could find her silver lining. Though I’d argue more Doctor Doom or Lex Luthor with the whole schemes within schemes thing.
These panels, I’m thinking pretty much the same thing as you do. To be reduced to a political tool simply because you’re their relative… It’s a prison, it really is. And you never even did anything wrong to get into this prison.
And also, it’s very unfair to the politician. Because let’s be honest, being a politician and having a family are two very, very different skillsets, and where the similarities are superficial at best and (more likely) extrapolated beyond reason at worst.
Plus, pretty much no matter what you do as a parent, your children can and will (and sometimes even should) behave differently than the values you are trying to raise them with. They are their own human beings, and if there is anything you should be held responsible for, it’s if your treatment of them is/was abusive. If it wasn’t, then it’s pretty much out of your hands.
So it’s a situation where everybody loses, really. Except the tabloid press, who happily snorts cocaine through dollar bills earned from the clicks of their scandal stories.
The more I think about it, the more disturbing scenarios spin through my head about how Roz could be forced to be here. I mean, she’s 18 or older, right? I’m pretty sure she is? I know some 17-year-olds and even younger get into college, but I think I remember Willis saying the entire cast was 18+, and he did draw porn of her. So I’m pretty sure she’s 18+.
So how was she forced to show up?
Was she bribed? Guilt-tripped? Blackmailed with something? (And if so, what could possibly work on her?) Given the family-obligation talk by her mom? Abducted by bulky security types who just said they were assigned to get her there safely and wouldn’t take no for an answer? Was Robin in on it, or was it just a campaign staffer attending to the minor details? ….. OOOOH, I’m imagining her intentionally getting caught shtoinking Kyle the Unnamed Aide in an elevator.
…. also, my autodictionary doesn’t have “shtoinking” programmed into it. This is a travesty, I say. A TRAVESTY!
My guess is part of family dynamics (older sibs often have a lot of authority over those who are much younger in large families – often acting as secondary parent-figures. I say this from experience as the eldest of a big family). For most of my teens, I was drafted unwilling into a teen parent type of role because my parents had too many children living under the same roof to look after all at once. End result is that the younger sibs who are more than about 4-5 years younger than me see me more as a parent than as a sibling. A lot of big families I know have the same dynamics.
When Roz gets a “you will show up to this” from her sister, she hears it as coming from her parents, as well – and 18 years of obedience to parents is hard to decondition yourself from.
And it’s also probably hard for her to disconnect from her situation before she was 18 where she definitely was expected to attend every rally for her sister and support her and where Roz would show up at her school periodically to drag her out to the campaign. To her she probably still feels like she needs to remain on parents and sibling’s good side and in some ways she might need to, depending on how much help they are giving for college or if a certain minimum of “not sabotaging your sister” is in the condition for not being disowned or shunned as a bad or ungrateful family member.
“Are you a god-fearing woman, Robin? Such an odd phrase. I always thought of God as a teacher. Well, don’t fear God, and certainly don’t fear me. Not anymore.”
I was loosely quoting Magneto from X-Men 1. Ironically, Magneto is Jewish, and if I remember right the Old Testament is the part Jewish people actually have in common with Christians.
I feel bad for Roz in the same way I feel bad for Trudeau’s kids, and the Obama girls, and Chelsea Clinton, and etc.
Roz was drafted into a life of work in the public eye before she was old enough to have a say in the matter. Everything she does reflects on her sister, and she’s been told that ever since her sister first ran for office – her life is not her own to live as she pleases. She, like all first-degree relatives of political public figures, does not have the same agency over her life as an ordinary person does, and it chafes.
In an ideal world, who your first degree relatives are and what they do would not reflect on anyone, full stop, because the reality is that your first-degree relatives don’t have all that much bearing on who you are and/or how you’ll turn out. Hell, look at me: A maybe-trans bisexual socialist. Know who my first degree relatives are?! A right-wing authoritarian-who-calls-himself-libertarian gun lobbyist, a right-wing-authoritarian fundie, a fiscal conservative who spouts nice words about equality and what have you as long as they don’t have to give up the tr*nny and r****d jokes or listen to PoC about police brutality or basically trouble themself in any way to help further the cause, and I could go on. I’ve thought about taking up politics in my spare time (I have the strong beliefs and the desire and the policy nerdiness even if I’m not the most charismatic of people – I could probably make for a decent policy advisor or back-bencher), and y’know why I haven’t? Because I know for damn sure it would take someone like 0.001s to find who my first-degree relatives are and damn me by association. Nobody would take my socialism seriously when I have a person who could very easily be painted as Captain Canadian Tea Party in my immediate family (without even going into some of my other first-degree relatives…).
And Roz knows that for damn sure.
I wonder how long Roz tried to toe the line for her sister’s sake before deciding that she just couldn’t take it anymore? I feel like she’s been trying to get out of being her sister’s political prop and to just be allowed to quietly live her life in peace for years, and her antics are a response to the fact that her sister refuses to respect a very explicit and firmly-established boundary.
Part of it is that Roz strikes me as the sort of late-teens/early-adult who takes up the mantle of progressive activism as a soft form of soft rebellion – she probably does genuinely believe a lot of what she says, but that ultimately is not why she’s doing it. She’s not doing it because she thinks it’s right, she’s doing it to establish her identity as separate from her overbearing parents and sister – and as a result, I would be very unsurprised if after Roz ages out of being a good political prop and her sister moves on to Riley for the cute factor, Roz settles down and lets go of a lot of her activism.
(this may be a personal bias, but the aforementioned fiscal conservative who is all for equality so long as they don’t have to put effort in was a Roz in early uni, as a way of rebelling against Captain Canadian Tea Party. I see a lot of that relative in Roz, and I would have no surprise if after Roz’s primary motivator is gone, so too does her interest in activism disappear – I mean, Roz might surprise me, but that’s been the general trend I’ve seen with a lot of economically privileged late teens/early twentysomethings who are very passionate about pissing off older conservative relatives helping out the less fortunate).
Should note that I don’t view that as a failing of Roz – I view it as a logical consequence of her situation. Frankly, it amazes me that more political families’ kids don’t wind up pulling a Roz.
Nor do I view Roz’s current activism as insincere – I think she is very sincere in her desire to further these causes at this point in time and stage of her life. It’s more that I think what she thinks her primary motivation is and what it actually is are two different things. And I think that when her primary motivator is gone, she’s either going to need to find a new one or her passion for it is going to wane considerably.
I think she does have a very strong sense of morality – but I also think it becomes a lot more appealing for her to stand on her principles rather than compromise when she knows standing on principles has the added benefit of thumbing her nose at her big sister, and that once the dynamic resolves, it’s going to be a lot more emotionally difficult for her to remain totally black-and-white in her views about this stuff.
Which may not be a bad thing – Roz’s major failing is her inability to see nuance. A waning of her zeal might enable her to admit that there are in fact shades of grey in the world and to work with and in those shades of grey.
Yeah, the way we police politicians by their families and their family’s actions, deciding the character of said family members reflects on the politician regardless of whether or not they pose as family values or not is pretty fucked.
And it puts binds both on the politician and all their family members, demanding the whole family to march in lockstep with the politician relative lest they become a news story and encouraging the politician to try and police their family so as to avoid “nasty campaign surprises” (I hate this man, but the bashing of George W. Bush because his daughters partied like the college kids they were always sat poorly with me, not to mention the way Malia and Sasha’s every action are poured over with a comb to try and find a single thread of controversy to exploit).
While she’s not queer, I feel Roz’s story is somewhat similar to Candace Gingrich, Ron Reagan, Maya Marcel-Keyes, or Helen LaFave, where an aspect of themselves inherently separated them from their conservative family member and this built eventually into activism and being able to separate themselves more and more politically.
In Roz’s case, that spark would be her firm belief that her family’s lives could have been immeasurably improved if her parents had believed in contraceptives and birth control and her belief in the radical power of sex.
Whether or not that will stick as she gets older will be an interesting question, but I agree that antipathy for her sister will only carry her so far, though I feel we’ve seen signs that she also believes in the causes she’s advocated for in her own right for her own personal reasons which will likely help her not backslide into conservatism as she gets older. I dunno, I might be biased on this one given my own background growing up surrounded by the worst of the worst.
And I think she’ll benefit from losing some of the black and white zeal as she grows up and especially as she loses that hunted feeling she’s been experiencing from Robin and Mary. And I suspect slowly getting to know Joyce more and more in bits and pieces will go a long way towards that end.
Also definitely echoing Emperor Norton’s offer of *hugs* and so much sympathy for having the chain of your relatives make you worried and doubt how successful any political aspirations would be.
OK, I just have to repeat a previous comment because I wrote it so late that you probably never saw it:
Holy crap. The things people keep piling on you and giving you crap (directly or indirectly) for no goddamn reason at all, I am in awe that you are not spending every awake minute of your day figuring out how to nuke this planet from orbit and start all over again with intelligent cockroaches.
INTERNET HUGS*! And there is more where that came from, if ever you need them. Don’t give a reason, just reply to any of my recent comments and tell me you need one. You’ll get it.
Re-reading the first meeting of Robin and Leslie, I forgot that the arc included Roz agreeing to be interviewed by Dorothy IF she came to Roz’s party with a friend. That ended up with the assault on Joyce and its aftermath. Correlation not causation, I know.
Yes, she also reached out and tried to connect Joyce with professional support when the hint-bomb was dropped that something really bad happened to her at the party, even though it ended with Joyce suspecting she was a witch trying to recruit her.
Ironically, I always assumed that Roz asked Dorothy to bring a friend specifically so Dorothy would be safer at the party. On the other hand, she doesn’t seem concerned later that Joyce is wandering around the party alone, so maybe it’s just part of her “you will actually participate in this party if you want to talk to me” thing.
(And of course Roz is not to blame for anything, except maybe making fun of Dorothy for wearing her PJs to the interview. You’re the one who said she couldn’t wear her normal clothes!)
Now I am picturing Marcie and Malaya shipwrecked on Roz’s island lair. Like back in Uncanny X-Men* when Scott got shipwrecked with whats-her-name the ship captain on Magento’s volcano ray island.
Colleen Wing. She dated Cyclops because his pet redhead died and he needed a new one.
Claremont X-Men is probably the best superhero comic of all time. Finally managed to snag the omnibus of the first four years of the run, and I can’t wait to start digging into it.
Not too far off though. Colleen & Scott did date briefly while Scott thought Jean(Phoenix-Jean) was dead.
That was a couple years before the shipwreck, which was probably ~148? Lead up to the Magneto story in 150.
It hasn’t been revealed here, but her counterpart in Shortpacked was, and sexuality is consistent between the comics.
So we know something about her that we don’t know if she knows about herself yet! However, we can be certain that she doesn’t know that we don’t know if she knows
As with the “super-jizz” joke about Superman, there’s always a possibility that a mutant’s powers might spasm during coitus.
This means “fucking Magneto” is one of the occasions where you can literally die of the irony.
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a lesson is learned but the damage is irreversible
DANG! I was hoping for everyone’s new favourite character to finally show up!
Fascinating. I wonder what this guy’s going to be like.
That Taylor and Tyler are in the background, though, is a nice touch.
I thought he was the guy that left the sign
Nope. My favorite new character is Sayid. 🙁
We’re best friends now.
Hey… That’s me.
the best villains dont think they are
Roz/Magneto new ship ahoy ahoy
Fucking Magneto, or merely the Magneto of Fucking?
#curlehmustache
MAG-FUCKING-NEATO
Roz also has #TinyHands
palms are facing towards her, with fingers curled, minimizing the visible part of the hands. What does tiny hands correlate with in women, anyway?
Large breasts.
Works similar with guys – Tiny Hands = Big Boob.
Or for Trump, his tiny hands indicate a tiny penis and a large belly. The large belly is obvious. The small penis is not obvious, which is pretty much the whole point.
Roz isn’t Magneto
she’s a sexmaster
Do you really think he isn’t?
He can make a metal object change shape and vibrate. I’m just saying.
Plus he has, at bare minimum if I am remembering correctly, three kids. Maybe more. Probably more. Most definitely more.
One’s adopted, and the other two were always kinda like, “Magneto lies, so… MAYBE???” But they were retconned as not his last I checked.
Maybe if Fox loses the rights he can have kids.
I much prefer Squirrel Girl’s ”medically and legally distinct from a mutant and this can never be taken back” retcon
YAY, another squirrel girl fan!
Squirrel Girl is magical.
Speaking of, cast member Koi Boi has just been revealed to be Marvel’s first transgender superhero, so that’s pretty rad.
Have they done that in-comic now? Last I heard, they’d confirmed he was, but the comic had only hinted at it
Hasn’t been said, no, but Koi Boi has been shown wearing a chest binder.
Koi Boy? Similar to Squirrel Girl, except he has the power to turn goldfish into sharknadoes?
a) Funny though it was, in the original apperance it says so clearly shes a mutant I think this was a pure joke – I cant believe it was a really a legal thing that would stand up in court.
b) Squirrel girls fantastic. Got all the trades so far. looking forward to the OGN
===
Magnato issue is meanwhile . Marvels sliding time scale causes age problems.
IT WAS COMPLETELY CANNON AND FOX CAN’T HAVE HER
>:[
(also, negating things that happened previously is what makes it a retcon)
The line now is that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are humans who were genetically altered by the High Evolutionary. Polaris is now Magneto’s only kid.
This would be shocking if anybody in the universe gave a crap about them.
Woah, I must be really out of touch with my X-Men fanboy roots but who the hell is Polaris? I was talking about Colossus.
I thought it was a little of both. They are Magneto’s kids, but were raised by Bova the bipedal cow-woman, who is just one of the High Evolutionary’s genetically tweaked servants. And since the guy just can’t keep his hands off of anyone’s genes including his own, he also tweaked Wanda and Pietro’s genes for good measure.
I have some of the comics from 20+ years ago where this is shown. And also I think there was an evil magical being and/or a demon and/or a critter from another plane involved. I think Wanda got some of her magic from that encounter.
But recons are really the only constant in any comic book continuity, so who knows what the official word is these days, or if that official word will survive the next change of writers.
She can control hormones with her mind.
So can everybody. That’s how glands work.
Actually, glands work the other other way. They use hormones to control minds.
Hormones can make the mind think the stupidest plan is a brilliant idea. Right Leslie?
No, of course she’s not Magneto, read it again. She said she’s fucking Magneto.
The tape didn’t turn out quite right, though.
Tape is magnetic storage. It turns out exactly the way Magneto wants it to turn out.
So the opposite to Orgazmo?
Will all of this lead to chicanery? I demand chicanery!
Oh, is THAT what the kids are calling it these days.
At the mere minimum shenanigans must take place!
I am with you, Inner Joe ACTIVATED!!!
Knowing, after all, is only half the battle.
half the battle.
Bollocks, this is why 1 posting is a bad idea.
*1AM
Sol’s sake, I’m going to bed
I’d prefer hijinks, or perhaps a gambit pileup.
Tomfoolery or GTFO.
Folderol should ensue.
Don’t all the books / days end with people in bed? Proceed Mr. Willis.
Is that a new coffee substitute flavoring? I can never tell with all these weird newfangled names for adulterated bad coffee.
More like Professor X than Magneto.
Professor XXX.
Mind-fuck powers.
I’d link to a page with that character in Empowered, but the web version hasn’t gotten there yet.
Now I have to lie down and cry because you reminded me about Mind-Fuck
Professor XXX, even?
hey but what if you had said Professor XXX?
But what about Professor XXX?
Or how about Professwaitsomeonealreadysaidthat.
Didn’t Morrison create a character called Xtacy, aka former prostitute who can use her pheromones to seduce anyone and make them horny*g*
“I couldn’t be more fucking Magneto if I were pregnant with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch!”
Alternatively:
“I’m so fucking Magneto, I’m Professor X in some fanfic that Amber showed me.”
“i’m so fucking Magneto, i’m dead and i barely showed up in the movie!!”
#mild magda salt
“I’m so fucking Magneto, I can fuck Rogue!”
Savage, man, just Savage.
The only worthwhile thing about the X-Men movies is the tragic bromance of Erik and Chuck.
The Deadpool movie was pretty rad though.
oh yeah, got some civics on the mind
dat body of law tho
She’s more Doctor Doom than Magneto
Doctor Doom is arguably better than Magneto, so…
Well Doom rules a country(if I remember correctly), what does Magneto have?
An asteroid.
He rules a country that is constantly destroyed! Sometimes by his own hand!
The Panter god told him he’s the only person who could rule the Earth and keep it safe IIRC. Also, gypsy mom, doctor dad, trained by Morgan Le Fay, at least as smart as Mr. Fantastic, used science to break into hell, time traveler, ex-cosmic being…
All around badass, really.
Just…don’t mention Squirrel Girl around him.
Well… yeah, but she’s Unbeatable, he’s just your ordinary centuries-old time traveling Doctor with fun tech that also turns out to be a great wizard.
Huh. I wonder…
Me too, but the one with the TARDIS avatar isn’t visiting this thread, even though I baited it.
Yeah, yeah.
dude if you had piercings, fucking magneto would be totally neato! i’ll be in my bunk
More like HORRIFIC! There’s a good reason they make you take those out for an MRI!
The question is whether she is Magneto with the enhancing adjective of Fucking or if she is the Magneto of Fucking.
It’s an important distinction.
The Magneto of Fucking would probably wear a completely different helmet.
Or the same helmet in a different place.
She promotes men to wear helmets on their other heads.
That, or she’s been having sex with Magneto and we’re just finding out now.
Roz could probably do MORE damage to Robyn’s campaign here than elsewhere, glare of publicity and so forth.
If only she had worn her dildo-hat, it would be the only thing anybody talked about the next day.
Robin: “On the one hand Roz, you may have just single-handedly ruined by re-election campaign. On the other hand, it was fucking hilarious.”
So in DoA land, do Leslie and Robin have history?
The scandal of Roz posting a sex video during the first week or so of school isn’t enough? (that was the whole reason behind Robin coming to visit the school in the first place)
That’s more her and Roz. I’m trying to figure out why Leslie is so infatuated with her and was curious if I missed something, like an offhand mention that they had a past together. Like a non-zany version of their initial relationship in Shortpacked.
Sometimes, you just think someone’s hot?
She’s got a major crush owing to a list of reasons involving her intelligence, her ambition, her role as a groundbreaking candidate, and her beauty… even though her politics make her vomit:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/knock/
Makes sense. I feel less dumb for missing it seeing as that comic is 5 years old too lol.
To paraphrase Mind Kaling: “Leslie’s body is very attracted to Robin’s body, but when Robin speaks, Leslie’s brain gets angry.”
Heh. My bad. I know you said LESLIE & Robin, but for some reason my brain thought ROZ & Robin. As for Leslie, it was just lust at first sight, I think.
Oooo! But this time, Leslie gets to do the hijinks!!
AFAIK, Robin only showed up for one of Roz’s classes and that is the only canon meeting between Robin and Leslie in DoA.
No, but they made googly-eyes at each other the last time they met:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/hmmm/
Could that be the setup for a hope crushing scene where Robin doesn’t even remember Leslie’s name?
A good politician remembers everyone’s name.
Are you using the word “good” as in does well at the job of being a politician, or as in character alignment? Because I think the class “politician” automatically excludes any character of good alignment.
An effective politician. Tom Cruise, for example, is known for asking key grips about their son’s little league game even if it was five years ago that he last worked on a movie with the guy.
I guess I’m using “politician” as “representative,” Cruise being one of the biggest representatives of a specific “religion” around.
What about Obama?
For the first time ever I saw the comic with ZERO comments! I was too stunned to act and just starred.
It is like seeing a unicorn.
It totally was!
Blink and they’re both gone.
Commenting Angels? Weeping Commenters?
Commenting Commenters?
Wait…
Weeping Commenters sounds about right for most of us.
There were lots of Weeping Commenters two days ago. As to Commenting Angels, I’ve yet to see any angels here.
Periodically I’d consider Cerberus one.
Some angels are warlike and often blindly loyal. So like people, but cooler because they have big feathery wings.
I screenshot these moments, I have ~5
No, Roz, you’re closer to being Mystique than Magneto.
Well, Magneto has special protective head wear, and Roz has:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/late/
Looks like this webcomic is less of “Dumbing of Age” and more of “XXX-Men”!
Eh? Eh? Alright, I’ll just escort myself out…
Wait until Cycocks and Vaseline arrive.
i laughed!
Of course, XXX-Men Emma Frost wears the exact same costume.
Oddly enough, it’s less revealing. Oh wait, that was Wonder Woman.
I like where this is going. Carry on, Roz. 😀
Now we need Roz posed the same as in this picture: http://i40.tinypic.com/11vtkli.jpg
Wait when Roz said nice was it sarcastic? I mean, she IS a camgirl…Or is she?
DoA Roz isn’t. Not yet, at least.
Cue the “(Roz) Desanto was Right” t-shirts
No, no, Robin is Right, Roz is definitely Left. 🙂
(rimshot)
Then come the ones where Desanto is crossed out for “Leslie,” and it says “Robin is hot” at the bottom.
Wait, Robin is a bottom? I’m confused.
Leslie would be okay with that!
I swear I saw somebody with a “Magneto was Right” shirt that had Magneto crossed out, Logan written in, and “Cyclops is an @$$hole” at the bottom. I can’t find any proof.
What is noic? Alt-text.
Misspelling of “noice”? I’m not usually hip with lingo.
i always read “noice” as, like, a super New-Yorky way of saying nice.
Seems more likely to hear among Cockney Brits.
Nice, spelled in a phonetic way to highlight its pronunciation. See also: “rekt”
*adjusts pince-nez* Yes, thank you all. I see now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juy5bpUt-lk
made I larf.
Questing of Age
They arrive at IU, with the airship hovering over the school.
Hank: You guys go on, I think my part in this is coming to a close. I’ll see you when this is over.
They start to jump out of the airship
Joyce: Got it.
Joyce prepares to jump out after everyone
Hank: Oh and one more thing…
Joyce: What is it?
Hank: Don’t try to be me or anyone else, become better than us.
Joyce: I’ll try
Joyce jumps out and Hank flies on.
They walk to the common room where Roz, Sal’s posse, Billie, Ruth, Mike, Jacob and Joe are sitting.
Joyce: Seems like the gangs all here.
Noticing Mary, Billie and Ruth get on guard.
Mary: Calm down, I’m not here to antagonize you this time.
Sal: Is that Faz?
Faz: Faz wishes to assist you.
Roz: Is everyone here?
Joyce: I think so, everyone who was with us anyway.
Roz: Great, down to business, what do you guys know?
Joyce: well, we know who took your sister…
Dorothy: …and her plan…
Walky:…but not where they are…
Roz: So who took her?
Joyce: My mom.
Roz: Carol.
Joyce: Yep.
Roz: And the plan?
Mary: She want to resseurct Blaine, and use him to create a world of her.
Roz: Literally?
Mary: Yes.
Sal: But we don’t know where they are…
Faz: That’s where the great Faz comes in.
Joyce: So where are they?
Faz: Hawaii.
Joyce: Hawaii?
Mary: It would make sense, the volcanic ground would make the proper enivorment for the spell.
Joyce: Which Island?
Faz: Big Island.
Mary: Biggest Volcano?
Faz: Yes.
Sal: Do we have transportation?
Joyce: Hank left…
Roz: Don’t worry, my sisters a congresswomen remember, this time around were flying in style.
Joyce: We should leave as soon as possible.
Dorothy: Let’s hope we beat them there.
Joyce: I feel like this story is coming to a close.
Becky: Lets make it a good ending.
i am honestly enthralled
haha Robin must not have a whole lot of people working for her if she has to keep Roz at the rally to make sure she doesn’t do anything
…idk. like. her options: keep Roz at the rally so she has a permanent eye on her; set Roz up in a nice hotel room with a permanent bodyguard; ask Roz nicely not to do anything; pretend Roz doesn’t exist and hope Roz forgets to do anything that might affect her?
….i d k. it really depends on Roz’s level of contrariness and how willing she is to get Robin’s attention and/or expose her to controversy.
But this way her peeps can see she’s keeping an eye on her sister.
“Campaign volunteer Studley McMuffin, your job is to spend the entire evening in this plush hotel room with the Congresswoman’s younger sister, who, and I can’t stress this enough, is of COMPLETELY LEGAL AGE.”
Yeah, I can’t see that going wrong at all.
See, what you need is a minion who is impervious to seducing, plus well paid and intelligent.
Did I say minion? I meant intern.
mmmmmmmmmmmm that’s a good point
depends if she’s hired anyone boring that roz would never consider being attracted to, ever
Man, that plan felt like it was conducted ages ago.
noic
As much as I can understand Roz wanting to shatter Robin’s political facade, I’m honestly not really comfortable with this course of action, mainly because if everything works out according to plan, the end result is essentially Roz (and by extension Leslie) forcibly outing Robin, which is Not Okay.
Assuming that DoA Robin is Bi like Walkyverse/Shortpack Robin. That has not been confirmed.
I’m okay if she is, but then again, Leslie doesn’t have magical/psychic powers that allow her to Fall for someone and know ahead of time that this person will reciprocate the same way.
There is a chance Robin will be flattered, but turn Leslie down. Unless Roz knows something no one else does.
So, what are the odds that this version of Robin is straight?
0%. Willis has stated that sexuality is consistent across universes.
Also your claim that she lacks magical powers is completely ignoring the amount of cleavage she’s showing in that shirt.
I believe it was the magic powers’ effects that were in question, not her possesion of them.
That’s still silly. You’re not gonna have much luck finding love if you won’t try anything that might fail
Silly? In this thread about magical cleavage? Perish the thought!
I’m with you on the: “If at first you don’t try, success isn’t really an option” point though.
Being a cis-straight male, I feel compelled to make the cliche statement that cleavage, as well as the part of the body that forms said cleavage, is always magical.
Sexuality is consistent across universes.
Wasn’t Robin not bisexual, but made an exception for Leslie? So will she make the same exception, we must find out….
Robin is bisexual.
I’m hoping that’s not where this is headed, but the possibility of Robin being outed can’t have escaped Roz, even if its not directly part of her plan. I wouldn’t entirely rule it out though, since I really think Roz is has way more privilege and blind spots than she realizes. She’s way too into feeling smugly superior about how progressive she is. I could easily see her getting too wrapped up in her some kind of scheme to defeat Robin’s political agenda, and not even consider that she’s basically outing her sister, or setting her up to be outed, until things are already in motion.
Though we don’t even know if this Robin has even figured out she’s not 100% straight herself, so it’s possible that Roz is just hoping that realizing she’s into ladies (even if only the one) will cause Robin to reevaluate some of her platform.
Robin is a gay tory. Folks like her need to be outed in as humiliating way possible so that an example is made for all such traitors.
There is just NO gray area at all with you, is there?
We don’t even know her stance on LGBT+ issues, or most things. We only really know that she’s vaguely conservative, and her electoral base would find women kissing to be scandalous. For all we know, that may only mean that she avoids those issues to stay in office, she wouldn’t necessarily have to oppose them to appease her base.
She’s’ family values’. We know exactly where that trash stands.
No. No we do not.
We don’t know her political position on ANYTHING. All we know is she’s marketing herself as a “family values” candidate and Leslie doesn’t like her politics. That’s it. And for that crime of being the conservative candidate, you would forcibly out her as bisexual in “as humiliating a way as possible so that an example is made for all such traitors”, to destroy her career and possibly her family life. You would ruin her and hurt her as much as possible because you don’t like her politics.
Fuck, even if we knew she was bisexual (more on that in the next paragraph) and that she supported anti-LGBT+ legislation, that still doesn’t justify outing her like that. LGBT+ people who openly support anti-LGBT+ legislation are usually the products of communities that have taught them all their lives that being gay is sinful and wicked, that it is something to be ashamed of and loathed. When these people start to realize that they’re not a -1 on the Kinsey scale, they feel shame and disgust with themselves. They react out of a need to atone or to prove something to themselves or their communities. These people do not need to be torn down. They need fucking HELP.
Anyway, there may not even be anything to out. Robin’s stated sexual orientation in SP! was “Straight with an exception”. She was not attracted to women generally, just Leslie specifically. Word of Willis being that orientation is preserved across continuums, and having only briefly met Leslie, she is, as far as she and anyone else is concerned, straight.
Robin is bi. Sexuality is constant across universes, and, whatever she may have said, Walkyverse Robin was a lot more bi than just “an exception”. Leslie was not the only, nor even the first, girl that Robin exhibited an attraction to. She was just the first one where Robin was willing to admit it to herself and others.
Even the “straight with an exception” self-description that everyone harps on is from fairly early in the evolution of Robin’s sexual identity. It changed as the story went on. The latest one was, IIRC, “kinda indefinably queer”.
I’ll be honest, it’s been too long since I read through SP! for me to clearly recall how she identified her sexuality, so I’m willing to admit a mistake and walk back that last paragraph.
Wrong.
No one should ever be “outed” except by themselves and intentionally.
Violating someone’s privacy like that is unforgivable and should be legally actionable.
She will hurt queer folks for her own power. Destruction of traitors like her is self-defense.
That makes you just as bad as the object of your ire.
Which justifies their opposition to you. Your position makes it easy for them.
Be the better person.
Defending oneself against someone who will throw her own kind under the wheels of bigots for a bit of power is as bad as them?
White liberals, erryone.
Not even once.
Oh fucking christ, no.
Fuck no. Like Lailah, I question it being a good idea for practical reasons and hurting others (couldn’t give a shit about the happiness of the candidate in question myself) but the idea that hating those who hurt them makes them ‘just as bad’ or deserving of being hated and pissed on for their demographic which is shat on by society as it were is ridiculous and just plain wrong.
Like people who help produce that environment, who basically indirectly /kill/ so many people through their wider actions, are utterly fine to despise.
Retaliating against oppression is not on par with the initial oppression nor does it justify it. If I punch you in the fact and you slap me it doesn’t make my punching you retroactively justified.
It’s not often that I see “destruction” and “traitor” emanating from this side of things.
I’m going to take the an unconventional tack here, from what most are asking or saying. What do you think isn’t acceptable in opposing someone like Robin?
What?
Two things here:
1: The Tories had better ethical and moral grounds than the revolutionaries. The revolutionaries were ultimately motivated by conquest and selfishness, with the elite acting entirely on their own destructive self interest (At the expense of the common folk). Unless you mean the still-extant british political party and not the Meriken ones, in which case knock yourself the fuck out.
2: No. Outing someone forcibly erodes the protections we can claim. Eroding those protections means it’s more acceptable for hte populace to out us. A non-trivial number of even those opposed to us do not believe they can just do this, and many who aren’t really on our side but don’t care also believe this. This is a hard-won benefit. This isn’t merely a moral issue (though it is also that, though self-defense does mitigate the /wrong/). This is a practical one. Do not sacrifice the long term for the short, particularly when the short won’t actually help much.
Yeah when I hear Tory I think of the UK party myself, didn’t even know there was a US version…
And this makes sense. I have no sympathy at all for such monsters- but it does send a dangerous precedent that there is some line you can cross where it’s okay for people to put your life in danger, entirely up to the person who finds out the truth… granted it could be argued that obviously such monsters have crossed it but still.
Like I hold no sympathy for the candidate at all (I’m sorry but I just can’t: they at least indirectly kill people through the societal environment they produce) but still: it can produce a dangerous environment for other people so we have to think about them. Not destroying a monster’s life with that particular method to potentially save others I guess. Sacrifices must be made, includes what you don’t do.
There’s also the fact they’re still wrong and disgusting regardless of any hypocrisy, as well as the fact, of course, there are people who try to promote ‘conversion therapy’ as a result anyway of outed. And it’s meaningless thing to do in some ways. They are disgusting pieces of shit regardless of sexuality and promote society basically torturing vulnerable people. Sure it potentially means the base of support might shift to a different candidate or they might lose that one election… but it does nothing to chance the views of the base of the support they had either- they’ll just go with someone else next time. It really is a short term gain as you say.
It also… idk, there’s lots of false accusations flung around too? And I kind of hate that in fiction especially the common thing with people bigoted against people who are not cis+het is to accuse them of being LGBT. Like I know for some it’s because they make being LGB especially sound so ‘tempting’ and all (because it can ‘corrupt’ so easily in their eyes) but it builds the false impression that somehow LGBT are just oppressing themselves when really it’s cis straight people’s fault entirely. It’s kind of a cop out really either way.
I think my view on this can be summarised thus:
We need to destroy them as politicians without destroying them as humans. Potentially putting their lives and health in danger is something that belongs in the latter category.
This is the perfect response in every way possible. Interactions towards humans should always be meant to further or help them as individuals, but when they have a harmful public platform, then by all means dismantle IT but not THEM. I really like this response and the way you worded it
Public outing as punishment?? Seriously??
Forcibly outing someone is always vile and disgusting behavior. The idea that it’s a punishment for not “toeing the line” is abhorrent. That’s not self defense. And it sets a dangerous precedent where outing is a punishment for perceived “treachery” against the group. Forced outing should never be a punishment.
I have… a lot of concerns with what you’re saying here. Let me stick to the two biggest ones since I don’t want to write out a big ol’ wall of text.
First, the underlying premise of your statement: Forcibly outing a person is permissible in certain circumstances. This is not a position I can get behind. In my view, a person should only ever be outed by their own choice. No one should ever do it for them. Not friends, not family, and not vigilantes screaming “Death to traitors”. The idea that it is acceptable to do, even to people that are clearly awful, reminiscent of the idea that releasing of personal information to the net is okay, as long as it’s done to someone you don’t like, which is a terrible concept.
Second, even if we accept the premise that forcibly outing a person is permissible in certain circumstances, who decides what those circumstances are? You? The government? John Smith down the street? Getting a clear definition of “acceptable circumstances” sounds like a logistical nightmare.
On a much lighter, albeit pedantic note, Robin is not a Tory. There is no political group by that name in the United States. She is most likely a Republican, though she could belong to a third party that shares a similar platform. If you want to be generic, she’s a conservative.
Forcibly outing someone is permissible in certain circumstances. Flat out, no arguments.
The most obvious would be under oath in court. There is no 5th amendment equivalent “right to avoid outing someone”. It’s not likely to be asked directly, but the relationship between two people could easily become relevant to a case.
It’s not sacrosanct. There’s no great moral principle here where outing someone is always beyond the pale. It’s a secret and it’s a big one and it certainly shouldn’t be taken lightly, but it’s not the first and only consideration.
For example, would you refuse to testify against a murderer if your testimony would reveal he was gay? If not, then we’ve established there are some circumstances. The rest is figuring where the line is.
As for who decides – barring actual legal cases, where there are already rules in place – the person in the situation does so. Who else? Hopefully they do so wisely.
Like revealing any other personal secret, you weigh the consequences of revealing it against the consequences of not doing so and hope you can live with your decision.
In this particular case? I can’t say. We don’t know enough. We don’t know the details of Robin’s politics. We don’t know if she just pays lip service to get elected or if she’s instrumental in drumming up hatred against LGTBQ people and passing discriminatory laws. I’m not so much concerned about punishment as about keeping her from doing more harm. Most likely, in this case, it’s not worth it.
I think they’re speaking in reference to choosing to out them. Compelled in court isn’t exactly that.
Right. Someone making the deliberate choice to out a closeted person in, say, a news publication is a very different beast than the scenario thejeff describes.
While they make some valid points, thejeff also did not address the larger point I was trying to make, which I did not explicitly state because the only thing less fun than reading a wall of text is writing one. That point is that Bad Things don’t magically become justified or stop being bad because they happen to people you don’t like or think are bad.
For example, let’s consider murder (because it isn’t an Internet debate until someone uses the most extreme example to illustrate their point). Murder is, I think we can all agree, a bad thing that should not happen. Now let’s think of that pharmaceutical asshole, Martin Shkreli. He is not a good person by any stretch of the imagination. If he were to die, I would not mourn him. I would even think that his death would result in a net benefit for humanity. But if that death were to come at the end of a man’s gun, I would not praise his killer, even in the privacy of my own mind, because I firmly believe that murder is wrong.
There is a disturbingly strong sentiment online (and offline as well, probably, but it’s most noticeable online) that if you can prove someone is “a terrible person” by some metric, any metric, that therefore justifies anything that happens to them, up to and including their violent death. Just a couple days ago, someone commented that they wished Amber would be shot, and when called to task on it, defended themselves by saying “she’s really annoying”. I’m all for characters getting their just desserts, particularly if it’s in an ironic fashion, but you can’t deny that this is disturbing.
Well, we haven’t reached the GEH yet, so we’re fine for now. But shot for being annoying? Maybe having to get a painful flu shot, but that’s as far as I’d go with the analogy.
Yes, it’s wrong to say that you can do anything to someone you can prove is a horrible person. But the opposite, that you can’t do anything and must treat them exactly the same as everyone else, is also just as wrong.
Bringing up murder muddles the conversation, as there are very few situations where it is allowable, and they all involve saving the life of yourself or others.
Outing a politician who is anti-gay is not about punishment. It’s about stopping them from being able to be anti-gay. Either they don’t actually believe it, or are self-hating.
Outing someone is merely telling a secret. And there are plenty of times when telling a secret is allowable. And like I say in a post lower down, I think it’s your ethical duty to out an anti-gay politician if you can. That one politician and his career doesn’t matter more than the people he is persecuting.
I forgot, is Roz planning to get Leslie to try to out her sister? If so, that’s dumb. Like, I already said it’s not ethical and harmful, but that’s also a /bad plan/. So yeah, comic book supervillain.
We don’t know exactly what’s she’s planning. She told Leslie she wants to better inform Robin’s worldview: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/twerp/
Discovering she’s queer (assuming she hasn’t yet) would no doubt have an affect her politics by itself. Or wanting to be able to have an non-secret relationship with Leslie might.
I can still see Roz considering some kind of blackmail before realizing how horrible that is, though
I will definitely grant that I could be misreading Roz’s gameplan entirely, though regardless I hope she’s at least somewhat cognizant of the potential for Robin to be outed.
I’m sorry, but I disagree completely and vehemently. If the person runs on an anti-gay platform, it is 100% okay to out them. In fact, it’s your ethical duty. People who don’t out them are allowing other gay people to be persecuted by this person. Why does this asshole matter more than them?
It’s been a key part of the Gay Rights movement as long as I can remember. It’s kinda important. Slippery slope arguments don’t hold, as we are free to reevaluate whether it is okay to out someone in other circumstances.
And absolute ethics that say “X is never okay” don’t work. Name anything you say is wrong, and there will always be an exception. Stealing is wrong–unless you would die without it. Lying is wrong–except to save people’s lives. Killing someone is wrong–unless they are trying to kill you or others or commit grievous bodily harm.
The reason we don’t out people is that their orientation is not hurting anyone. If they wish to remain closeted, no one else is affected. This is not true if they are anti-gay. Then their orientation and self-hatred is causing them to lash out at millions of gay people. They can push things like gay conversion therapy, which is literally torture.
Even typing it into google (is it wrong to out an anti-gay politician) I can find no one who says it’s wrong.
Sure, maybe Robin doesn’t run on an anti-gay platform. We don’t know that for sure yet. But, if she does, then she should be outed. Nothing good comes from treating the bad person better than all the people they are hurting.
Gather around, ladies, gentlemen, and nonbinary individuals. What we have here is a simply magnificent work of literature, the likes of which the world has heretofore never observed. “A”. Shakespearean in its elegance, Hemingwayesque in its simplicity. Absolutely sublime.
But what do you suppose it means? What do the gently sloping sides of the letter “A” symbolize? What is the author saying with the dramatic, almost jarring placement of the perfectly horizontal cross bar? What do you make of the author’s use of the Latin alphabet as opposed to Arabic or Hebrew?
I think the author has given us more questions than answers and, in so doing, has invited us to reflect deeply on how we perceive not only the written word, but text itself.
It means s/he committed adultery, obviously.
That’s only in Scarlet. The color of all the best Spiders.
Spider-Gwen laughs at you.
*Crosses arms.* Fine, the color of three out of five of my top five Spiders, with Gwen and Miguel above them. Spider-boy would be my #1, but he barely existed when he did exist and doesn’t anymore, so…
Are you happy now that my joke is dead? (I am. Yours was fun.)
Alas! There are not enough clues present to deduce its true significance! The principle article of this mystery shall forever remain indefinite!
My real question, of course, is why the hell Willis titled this strip “Civic” instead of “Exxxploits.”
It’s not Slipshine?
Roz, you’re not even Killer Moth.
I think he actually won once. I forget how though, or why it didn’t stick.
Roz , I don’t think you have much of a chance with Magneto, he’s gay. Unless you mean the reboot Magneto…
See, once the word “supervillain” was mentioned, I got my hopes up for seeing Sydney Yus!
Sorry Roz, but that’s Xavier’s job. How do you think he ended up in that wheelchair? Bullet to the spine? Horrible accident? Osteoporosis? Nope, it was incredibly kinky sex on both the physical and mental levels.
He’s had jelly legs for 50+ years?
You ever done it with a telepath? They can make you feel things in erogenous zones you don’t even have
That sounds more scary than erotic. Then again, I am a bit vanilla.
To her credit, Roz’s real motive is to make her sister and her favourite teacher happy. Someone has to sit her down and tell her that she doesn’t have to make everything sound like she’s a monster. I just wonder who told her that this was her role?
Her sister did by treating her as a toxic destructive force who needs to be managed to not destroy everything. Her society did by labeling a sexually active woman as evil and wicked.
Roz feels like she’s so used to being seen as the villain, so she’s decided to embrace it. Not fully internalizing that she’s not actually evil and actually has a pretty strong morality (Joyce dressing down not withstanding).
Roz commands the powers of sexual magnetism!
I’m kinda confused.
What’s keeping Roz there? She’s an adult, her sister doesn’t own her.
Family guilt tripping, campaign handling?
I’m guessing Roz isn’t yet completely immune to adults sternly telling her to do things. Especially ones she has to see on holidays and who know embarrassing things about her
Perhaps she wants to be here for any potential epic fail?
Or she actually cares about her sister in spite of their political differences?
Naw, it’s probably the first one.
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: Dun dun dun, Leslie got caught.
Panel 2: Oh Leslie, no. Also, it’s adorable that she literally couldn’t wait until the next day to see the woman she’s been crushing on.
Panel 3: Wait. Did Leslie just slut shame Roz because she was embarrassed at getting caught being thirsty at the DeSanto rally?
Not cool, Leslie. Even if Roz didn’t take it that way and was somewhat flattered by the pun work.
And even if it wasn’t meant that way, they don’t already have a culture of established mutual ribbing and Roz is her student even if she is working to hook her up with her sister. So even if it wasn’t intended as slut shaming, it’s still wildly inappropriate as a teacher and Leslie is gonna need to start establishing better boundaries, especially where Roz is concerned since the majority of her unprofessionalism occurs with her.
I assumed it was meant as a recognition of the campaign’s stance and a fun pun, but if Leslie had meant that, that is pretty uncool. But you’re right about better boundaries.
Like Lailah, I think it was more of a ribbing. Remember that Leslie took Roz’s side against Robin during that whole debacle; even if somewhat nervously (possibly because she was already getting a bit weak in the knees at having Robin in the same room). And I am pretty sure that at the very least, Leslie would never -intend- to slut-shame someone. And yes, I know it’s oh-so-easily to do it unintentionally… But then again, so does Leslie, not only from teaching gender studies, but from personal experiences from being lesbian.
And while they don’t necessarily have an established history of ribbing, I think it is very heavily implied by Leslie’s general attitude as a teacher. I mean, she started out with a gentle ribbing within ten seconds of entering the room for her first lesson. I reckon that practically all of her lessons have had elements of the same.
Now, Roz may not have been the main target of it, but I feel confident that at the very least, she’s enjoyed the ribbings of Joe, and that it’s one of the reasons she even shows up in class instead of just showing up for the tests and assume she’ll ace them because she (thinks she) knows everything about gender studies already.
BUT, on the other hand, the whole damn situation with Roz/Robin/Leslie is in my opinion very problematic, from the very start; and that Robin is Leslie’s blind spot. I’m not sure how I can even explain it, but it’s just felt wrong somehow from the very second Roz asked Leslie to dress more revealingly for Robin, and Robin replying that she already had something in mind. It’s not the same as a teacher-student romantic relationship, but it still disrupts the teacher-student professional dynamic somehow, if you get what I mean.
I do think that situation is worse than (if I am right) a joke references to a video that Roz intended to be public and is very proud of, and that they have already discussed.
Yeah this whole thing is making me like Leslie a lot less in general.
B
I find your work derivative.
A true classic.
Þ
Really, Leslie? Shaming Roz for the sex vid after This?
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/nethers/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/activist/
Leslie is not very good at teacher/student boundaries. That comment can NEVER be just a friendly jab, not when it comes from a teacher.
…I suppose being enlisted by said student to seduce her sister might fall into the category of less than stellar boundary setting as well.
I saw that more as enlisting said student to seduce her sister, but still not good teacher/student boundaries either way.
That said, I didn’t see this as slut shaming as much as a comment on her sister’s reaction to it.
Hmmmmm, yeah I can see that. I hope you are right.
That’s how I read it as well. Robin even referred to it in a similar manner at one point.
That’s the part that makes me balk at that, since Robin didn’t mean it at all affectionately and very much intended it to slut shame her sister.
So echoing that, even as a joke, can be a fraught action and definitely outside the bounds of a good teacher-student dynamic.
I see your point. Especially now that I remember that the previous interaction between the two of them was considerably less than amicable, Leslie was pretty lucky that was taken as intended.
Leslie definitely doesn’t have her teacher hat on at the moment
I think she’s got on her embarrassed being caught in thirsty mode by a student hat at the moment.
Hey! Magneto is not a piece of meat, you sex-crazed hussy!
#MutantNotMeat
Panel 4: Oh, Roz… I feel so bad for her here. Sure, she’s making the best of things, but agency is not only important to Roz, it’s the most important thing to her. Her whole sex tape deal was an attempt to tell her sister that she was done being her pawn and yet Robin just bowled her over with the Dean and is back to the same old shit.
Whether it be yanking Riley out of school to “show her family values” or demanding Roz give up her evening so she can be “monitored”, Robin in this universe seems to view her family members largely as props to be put into play as needed, which isn’t a wholly unusual thing among politicians, but is definitely sad to see given how very against her sister’s politics, Roz is.
And the worst part of this is she’s come to school to try and escape the controlling political environment of her sister and make her own path, but when she goes home in the evening, she’s somehow going home to someone who manages to be even worse in the form of Mary.
Panel 5: And that frustration is boiling over here. Like, this idea that she can’t just enjoy an evening, maybe have a nice bonk because her sister is in town and it’s time for her to be her sister’s political pawn and be treated like something toxic and inherently destructive is pretty awful. And imagining that it’s been 2 or so years of this straight, I can see why Roz is fed up and done.
Panel 6: Oh good, Leslie is aware of the lack of boundaries she’s been practicing with Roz. Good for her. (I mean, I understand her attraction and the fact that she’s letting Roz set her up with her sister is already going to mean a bad boundary, but she can try and minimize the damage that’s likely to do)*.
*And I don’t dislike Leslie. In fact, I love Leslie and her class structure. This is just her fatal flaw as every character has one.
Also, I’m happy Roz could find her silver lining. Though I’d argue more Doctor Doom or Lex Luthor with the whole schemes within schemes thing.
Well I don’t think she’s stolen any cakes yet.
These panels, I’m thinking pretty much the same thing as you do. To be reduced to a political tool simply because you’re their relative… It’s a prison, it really is. And you never even did anything wrong to get into this prison.
And also, it’s very unfair to the politician. Because let’s be honest, being a politician and having a family are two very, very different skillsets, and where the similarities are superficial at best and (more likely) extrapolated beyond reason at worst.
Plus, pretty much no matter what you do as a parent, your children can and will (and sometimes even should) behave differently than the values you are trying to raise them with. They are their own human beings, and if there is anything you should be held responsible for, it’s if your treatment of them is/was abusive. If it wasn’t, then it’s pretty much out of your hands.
So it’s a situation where everybody loses, really. Except the tabloid press, who happily snorts cocaine through dollar bills earned from the clicks of their scandal stories.
Why isn’t it pronounced mag-net-o?
Because the character is neato.
The more I think about it, the more disturbing scenarios spin through my head about how Roz could be forced to be here. I mean, she’s 18 or older, right? I’m pretty sure she is? I know some 17-year-olds and even younger get into college, but I think I remember Willis saying the entire cast was 18+, and he did draw porn of her. So I’m pretty sure she’s 18+.
So how was she forced to show up?
Was she bribed? Guilt-tripped? Blackmailed with something? (And if so, what could possibly work on her?) Given the family-obligation talk by her mom? Abducted by bulky security types who just said they were assigned to get her there safely and wouldn’t take no for an answer? Was Robin in on it, or was it just a campaign staffer attending to the minor details? ….. OOOOH, I’m imagining her intentionally getting caught shtoinking Kyle the Unnamed Aide in an elevator.
…. also, my autodictionary doesn’t have “shtoinking” programmed into it. This is a travesty, I say. A TRAVESTY!
I’m gonna bet “whined at until it was less of a hassle to give it.”
I’m pretty sure that this strip provides the real explanation.
… wow the art has changed in five years.
My guess is part of family dynamics (older sibs often have a lot of authority over those who are much younger in large families – often acting as secondary parent-figures. I say this from experience as the eldest of a big family). For most of my teens, I was drafted unwilling into a teen parent type of role because my parents had too many children living under the same roof to look after all at once. End result is that the younger sibs who are more than about 4-5 years younger than me see me more as a parent than as a sibling. A lot of big families I know have the same dynamics.
When Roz gets a “you will show up to this” from her sister, she hears it as coming from her parents, as well – and 18 years of obedience to parents is hard to decondition yourself from.
Yup, that was my take too.
And it’s also probably hard for her to disconnect from her situation before she was 18 where she definitely was expected to attend every rally for her sister and support her and where Roz would show up at her school periodically to drag her out to the campaign. To her she probably still feels like she needs to remain on parents and sibling’s good side and in some ways she might need to, depending on how much help they are giving for college or if a certain minimum of “not sabotaging your sister” is in the condition for not being disowned or shunned as a bad or ungrateful family member.
Another distinct possibility is that Roz wants to be here in case Robin has an epic failure. She wouldn’t want to miss that!
Why is she doing *that* with Magneto? Then again, she’s a grown adult, so it should be none of my business.
Not sure if serious.
Yeah, the Stephen Colbert avatar really makes it hard to tell…
I’m really surprised this had never been commented before and wasn’t filtered out.
“Are you a god-fearing woman, Robin? Such an odd phrase. I always thought of God as a teacher. Well, don’t fear God, and certainly don’t fear me. Not anymore.”
‘God-fearing’ is usually a reference to the ‘Old Testament’ God – you know, floods, plagues of locusts, pillars of salt, baseball bats.
I was loosely quoting Magneto from X-Men 1. Ironically, Magneto is Jewish, and if I remember right the Old Testament is the part Jewish people actually have in common with Christians.
You can let out that Super Villain Laugh now Roz.
I am SUCH a Leslie Robin shipper
If Roz is Magneto, what does that make Leslie?
Mystique?
Clever way to remind us of the plot. I had forgotten it.
Awwwwww, Leslie in panel 1 look just so guilty.
Her brain: DAMMIT, I WAS SURE THAT NOBODY I KNEW WOULD POP UP HERE BECAUSE THEY ALL FIND ROBIN’S POLITICS AS HORRIBLE AS I DO!
She should be she’s doing a really stupid thing.
I feel bad for Roz in the same way I feel bad for Trudeau’s kids, and the Obama girls, and Chelsea Clinton, and etc.
Roz was drafted into a life of work in the public eye before she was old enough to have a say in the matter. Everything she does reflects on her sister, and she’s been told that ever since her sister first ran for office – her life is not her own to live as she pleases. She, like all first-degree relatives of political public figures, does not have the same agency over her life as an ordinary person does, and it chafes.
In an ideal world, who your first degree relatives are and what they do would not reflect on anyone, full stop, because the reality is that your first-degree relatives don’t have all that much bearing on who you are and/or how you’ll turn out. Hell, look at me: A maybe-trans bisexual socialist. Know who my first degree relatives are?! A right-wing authoritarian-who-calls-himself-libertarian gun lobbyist, a right-wing-authoritarian fundie, a fiscal conservative who spouts nice words about equality and what have you as long as they don’t have to give up the tr*nny and r****d jokes or listen to PoC about police brutality or basically trouble themself in any way to help further the cause, and I could go on. I’ve thought about taking up politics in my spare time (I have the strong beliefs and the desire and the policy nerdiness even if I’m not the most charismatic of people – I could probably make for a decent policy advisor or back-bencher), and y’know why I haven’t? Because I know for damn sure it would take someone like 0.001s to find who my first-degree relatives are and damn me by association. Nobody would take my socialism seriously when I have a person who could very easily be painted as Captain Canadian Tea Party in my immediate family (without even going into some of my other first-degree relatives…).
And Roz knows that for damn sure.
I wonder how long Roz tried to toe the line for her sister’s sake before deciding that she just couldn’t take it anymore? I feel like she’s been trying to get out of being her sister’s political prop and to just be allowed to quietly live her life in peace for years, and her antics are a response to the fact that her sister refuses to respect a very explicit and firmly-established boundary.
Part of it is that Roz strikes me as the sort of late-teens/early-adult who takes up the mantle of progressive activism as a soft form of soft rebellion – she probably does genuinely believe a lot of what she says, but that ultimately is not why she’s doing it. She’s not doing it because she thinks it’s right, she’s doing it to establish her identity as separate from her overbearing parents and sister – and as a result, I would be very unsurprised if after Roz ages out of being a good political prop and her sister moves on to Riley for the cute factor, Roz settles down and lets go of a lot of her activism.
(this may be a personal bias, but the aforementioned fiscal conservative who is all for equality so long as they don’t have to put effort in was a Roz in early uni, as a way of rebelling against Captain Canadian Tea Party. I see a lot of that relative in Roz, and I would have no surprise if after Roz’s primary motivator is gone, so too does her interest in activism disappear – I mean, Roz might surprise me, but that’s been the general trend I’ve seen with a lot of economically privileged late teens/early twentysomethings who are very passionate about
pissing off older conservative relativeshelping out the less fortunate).Should note that I don’t view that as a failing of Roz – I view it as a logical consequence of her situation. Frankly, it amazes me that more political families’ kids don’t wind up pulling a Roz.
Nor do I view Roz’s current activism as insincere – I think she is very sincere in her desire to further these causes at this point in time and stage of her life. It’s more that I think what she thinks her primary motivation is and what it actually is are two different things. And I think that when her primary motivator is gone, she’s either going to need to find a new one or her passion for it is going to wane considerably.
I think she does have a very strong sense of morality – but I also think it becomes a lot more appealing for her to stand on her principles rather than compromise when she knows standing on principles has the added benefit of thumbing her nose at her big sister, and that once the dynamic resolves, it’s going to be a lot more emotionally difficult for her to remain totally black-and-white in her views about this stuff.
Which may not be a bad thing – Roz’s major failing is her inability to see nuance. A waning of her zeal might enable her to admit that there are in fact shades of grey in the world and to work with and in those shades of grey.
Yeah, the way we police politicians by their families and their family’s actions, deciding the character of said family members reflects on the politician regardless of whether or not they pose as family values or not is pretty fucked.
And it puts binds both on the politician and all their family members, demanding the whole family to march in lockstep with the politician relative lest they become a news story and encouraging the politician to try and police their family so as to avoid “nasty campaign surprises” (I hate this man, but the bashing of George W. Bush because his daughters partied like the college kids they were always sat poorly with me, not to mention the way Malia and Sasha’s every action are poured over with a comb to try and find a single thread of controversy to exploit).
While she’s not queer, I feel Roz’s story is somewhat similar to Candace Gingrich, Ron Reagan, Maya Marcel-Keyes, or Helen LaFave, where an aspect of themselves inherently separated them from their conservative family member and this built eventually into activism and being able to separate themselves more and more politically.
In Roz’s case, that spark would be her firm belief that her family’s lives could have been immeasurably improved if her parents had believed in contraceptives and birth control and her belief in the radical power of sex.
Whether or not that will stick as she gets older will be an interesting question, but I agree that antipathy for her sister will only carry her so far, though I feel we’ve seen signs that she also believes in the causes she’s advocated for in her own right for her own personal reasons which will likely help her not backslide into conservatism as she gets older. I dunno, I might be biased on this one given my own background growing up surrounded by the worst of the worst.
And I think she’ll benefit from losing some of the black and white zeal as she grows up and especially as she loses that hunted feeling she’s been experiencing from Robin and Mary. And I suspect slowly getting to know Joyce more and more in bits and pieces will go a long way towards that end.
Also definitely echoing Emperor Norton’s offer of *hugs* and so much sympathy for having the chain of your relatives make you worried and doubt how successful any political aspirations would be.
OK, I just have to repeat a previous comment because I wrote it so late that you probably never saw it:
Holy crap. The things people keep piling on you and giving you crap (directly or indirectly) for no goddamn reason at all, I am in awe that you are not spending every awake minute of your day figuring out how to nuke this planet from orbit and start all over again with intelligent cockroaches.
INTERNET HUGS*! And there is more where that came from, if ever you need them. Don’t give a reason, just reply to any of my recent comments and tell me you need one. You’ll get it.
*Now 76% less awkward than normal hugs!
Re-reading the first meeting of Robin and Leslie, I forgot that the arc included Roz agreeing to be interviewed by Dorothy IF she came to Roz’s party with a friend. That ended up with the assault on Joyce and its aftermath. Correlation not causation, I know.
While Roz’s smugness irks me to no end, she has no blame there.
That is entirely on Ryan.
Yes, she also reached out and tried to connect Joyce with professional support when the hint-bomb was dropped that something really bad happened to her at the party, even though it ended with Joyce suspecting she was a witch trying to recruit her.
Ironically, I always assumed that Roz asked Dorothy to bring a friend specifically so Dorothy would be safer at the party. On the other hand, she doesn’t seem concerned later that Joyce is wandering around the party alone, so maybe it’s just part of her “you will actually participate in this party if you want to talk to me” thing.
(And of course Roz is not to blame for anything, except maybe making fun of Dorothy for wearing her PJs to the interview. You’re the one who said she couldn’t wear her normal clothes!)
Either I didn’t get what the alt-text meant, or you misspelled “nooice”.
Let’s be honest. Who wouldn’t want to be fucking Magneto? Have you seen his abs?
Does that make him the Marvel version of Jacob, or Walky?
Rogue did and it was super gross!
Because Yotomoe is the fucking bomb, I present to you:
gatdangit
https://65.media.tumblr.com/c48fdd700e8ce10d4a44c84dd8118a5f/tumblr_messaging_ocj2wgokAe1r00j0v_1280.png
That is awesome.
Roz, you are not Magneto. For one thing, you have a distinct lack of capes.
Now Stilt-Man, on the other hand…
Now I am picturing Marcie and Malaya shipwrecked on Roz’s island lair. Like back in Uncanny X-Men* when Scott got shipwrecked with whats-her-name the ship captain on Magento’s volcano ray island.
(mumble 140-170 maybe?)
Colleen Wing. She dated Cyclops because his pet redhead died and he needed a new one.
Claremont X-Men is probably the best superhero comic of all time. Finally managed to snag the omnibus of the first four years of the run, and I can’t wait to start digging into it.
No, I’m pretty sure that was Lee Forrester. I know this because I listen to Jay and Miles X-Plain the X-Men, and they love Lee.
Shit, you’re right.
I’ve been outed as a Fake Geek Guy.
Not too far off though. Colleen & Scott did date briefly while Scott thought Jean(Phoenix-Jean) was dead.
That was a couple years before the shipwreck, which was probably ~148? Lead up to the Magneto story in 150.
All I know is whenever I hear “Colleen Wing”, I think of this.
(Speaking of Stilt-Man…)
I guess we can safely assume because Roz is trying to make this plan happen, but do we actually know if her sister is actually Lesliesexual?
Robin’s bi.
It hasn’t been revealed here, but her counterpart in Shortpacked was, and sexuality is consistent between the comics.
So we know something about her that we don’t know if she knows about herself yet! However, we can be certain that she doesn’t know that we don’t know if she knows
wholly crap that last sentence blew my mind
+1
I’m a little worried that the last sentence could cause the Dummiverse to implode.
Roz tends to really tick me off, and as a general rule I’m not a fan, but I have to admit, this is pretty brilliant. Credit where its due.
As with the “super-jizz” joke about Superman, there’s always a possibility that a mutant’s powers might spasm during coitus.
This means “fucking Magneto” is one of the occasions where you can literally die of the irony.