A well supported one theory at least, when has Ethan ever backed down to Amber, he did’t over Joyce, that indent with the crowbar and spiders, and he lost no ground over Sal. Did I miss something?
Very early on he and mike were going to go to lunch with her, she was killing spiders on WOW(?) and stalled they dragged he to lunch with a crowbar.
Much later Ethan used logic to point out that they were not in a position to judge sal on her past whilst reaming unaware that sal was the robber who held him at knife point.
I mean, I ascribe to the idea that once a relationship is over, you don’t owe your ex anything, but I guess I kinda see where you’re coming from. Still, these two could use something good, even if it’s only for a moment.
I agree that Danny doesn’t owe Amber anything. Ethan is actually still her best friend, though, so………… usually there is some consideration involved when your best friend moves to hook up with your ex.
Besides which, Amber’s romantic feelings are actually the least of the problems with Danny diving headfirst into Ethan’s arms here. Other issues like “Danny is on a major rebound” and “Ethan is still uncomfortable with being gay” and “when you need the support of a friend, you usually don’t want to complicate that with potential romantic rejection”.
Speaking as the voice of experience on the last one especially. I have had major feelings for friends after a breakup and squashed them because I needed that support much much more than I wanted to risk being rejected twice in 24 hours.
Now all I can picture is a bright blue strap-on with a heavily stylized ‘A’ for the head and the word ‘Amazing’ written down the length of the shaft looming over a pale white ass. I’m very confused by this mental image.
Yeah, turns out the Bush years are the kind of forbidden knowledge where the slightest sliver can break your brain. Like Lovecraft if Cthulhu had a ten-gallon hat.
Hey, I remember reading about World War I and Liberty Steaks back in my high-school history class in the 90s, and *that* made my brain a bit sad. Then we started doing it again a century later, against a country we weren’t even at war with, and my brain was more “WTF?”
Much as I would enjoy that, at this point in time that would be incredibly ill-advised. It would essentially be rebound sex with Amber’s best friend t’ whom she still harbors unresolved issues in regards to his coming out piled on top a’ everything else.
Danny’s not the sharpest tool in the shed by a friggin’ long shot, but I doubt even he’d be that dumb.
I hope that Danny explains what happened and that Ethan also sees Amber is risking her life. Ethan is probably the only person at the school right now who might be able to get through to Amber that what she’s doing is dangerous (and that a lot of her actions are veering perilously close to things her father might do).
I hope he at least says “Holy shit, she totally got mad at you for talking to someone she has never once indicated was a traumatic figure in her past. I’ll go straighten this whole thing out” *proceeds to yell at amber about communication be the key to good relationships*
But that doesn’t follow the script, where Blaine and Sal are pure evil and Amazi-Girl exists as a paragon of good, sworn to protect Amber from them. It will likely elicit the same kind of “you know better than that, shame on you” response Danny was given, if she doesn’t outright dismiss Ethan as well.
Amber has built herself this comfortable internal comic book narrative as a coping mechanism, and she needs help coming back to objective reality before she can actually confront the underlying causes of her distress.
Dannyboy, it might not seem like it now, but this is good for you. Amber is poison. She has to sort her shit out first and a well meaning boyfriend is clearly not helping her.
All joking aside, I’ve sadistically been wanting Mike to get to Danny before Ethan does. It sounds like something Mike would do, in order to dick with both Amber and Ethan at once.
It is uncalled for, but I think he’s directing that more at Amber than Ethan. After all, they broke up because Danny talked to someone that she didn’t approve of. If she texted Ethan that her now ex is ‘persona non grata’…well it sort of sounds like Danny’s basically like Sal to her. And just like with Danny, she might not be happy with Ethan for continuing to talk to Danny. Which is where his comment comes in. Though Ethan seems like the type of guy to put his foot down. In this situation at least.
Come on, Ethan, your decisions do NOT need to be made by someone as unstable as Amber. Danny finally decided to stop pussyfooting around her; you need to do the same.
Right now all i want is for Ethan and Danny to talk through the awfulness. Platonic Netflix and chill after kids fine too… Danny needs something light to help him come down from awful he’s feeling.
Besides all the best fictional relationships are the slow burning type.
*attempts to physically move the camera back to Carla*
No for real, it’ll be nice to see more Danny and Ethan interactions, and maybe move just a bit closer to getting Amber some help, but there’s not the same joy to it.
My honest theory is that Carla’s revenge is that she doesn’t actually have a plan to seek revenge, so she’s going to torture her by making her stew and freak out over the non-revenge that isn’t coming, hopefully leading to the worthless sack of skin doing something that gets her kicked out of school.
I don’t think that’s her full plan,b ut that’s definitely PART of it. I really doubt she will get to fire a cannon at Mary, or fire Mary out of a cannon (Although I’m pretty sure I support this action either way). But tape-measuring her and then whistling the 1812 Overture is going to freak her out regardless.
Okay, I know this is sort of a joke. And I swear I want only the best for Amber. But every part of my brain is screaming for Ethan to walk away from her. Maybe, irrationally, because I really like Ethan. But I really don’t think he deserves or even necessarily can handle being caught in this inevitable fallout.
It turns out every Big 10 school has a superhero. Ohio State has Buckeye Batman, Wisconsin has Wonder Badger, Michigan: Wolverine (he’s gone back to college for night classes).
Oof, that’s right. Not only are those implications of Amber finding out a danger, but there’s the whole aspect of how this whole relationship-musical-chairs would be for Danny.
Also, of course, Becky was rebounding off a relationship that never actually happened, nor could happen, and had had several days to process this fact. And Dina wasn’t Joyce’s best friend and ex.
Even without going meta, Danny/Ethan isn’t the same sitch as Dina/Becky. Right now, Danny/Ethan could not be better designed to crash and burn if they were crash test dummies made out of kindling and gasoline.
Yeah because I bet Amber was the one that made you squirm back into being in the closet just because you couldn’t eat chicken tenders from Chick-fil-A.
Amber was super supportive to Ethan when he came out in high school! She mentioned that they’d spent the summer dealing with his parents and his even-worse grandparents, iirc — she was a big ally even though he’d just broken her heart. She was not a fan of him re-closeting, but didn’t out him. Amber has many faults, but she’s been very good to Ethan, and his glass closet was his own mistake, not hers.
It kind of gives me hope for Amber that even in her most rage-filled moments, she still didn’t out Ethan. Longstanding, platonic love trumps anger. Yay Amber.
She actually did. When she went all table flipping rage at Joyce. She outed Ethan to Sarah, who had already figured it out on her own, and anyone who happened to overhear her screaming about it.
I mean, that was still, largely, about defending Ethan, because if he told Joyce that he was gay and they were still dating, obviously it must be because she’s trying to guilt him into degaying himself. Sarah herself even said that she had a “tiny point” for being angry at Joyce, because Joyce was, y’know, doing something completely awful in her ignorance. Didn’t give her the right to go all screaming bloodrage at her and Ethan, mind, which Amber eventually realizes and later on accepted that Ethan had to make his own choices, even if she hated them.
Considering no one reacted to the table flip, the screaming, and then the crying girl running out of campus, I can’t imagine anybody that overheard it mattered enough to the series for it to count as any kind of significant moment, or that it was meant to be indicative that Amber wasn’t absolutely a pillar of support for Ethan during his coming out.
Given how… understanding Ethans parents seem to be, and how… well Amber respond to parental dickheads, I kinda wonder how that all went down. Did Ethan has to stop Amaziegirl from beating up his parents?
Or has Amaziegirl gotten much worse from recent events?
So um. Ethan’s at least vaguely aware Amazi-Girl is in fact an “other self”, doing the tag trawl, but I doubt he knows the full extent to which Things Have Gone Bad since it seems to have been intensifying in the last few weeks and she wasn’t present for them.
But that means if Danny talks here, he might be able to put the pieces together and realize, “Oh SHIT, Amber’s in some real deep trouble.” COME ON SOUL-SEARCHING AMBER FRIENDS TALK TALK FOR THE LOVE OF MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE PLEASE PLEASE TALK.
‘Talk’? What is this thing you speak of? Sounds positively anti-drama. We can’t have that around here, we’re not allowed to have nice things. You know what happened the last time we had nice things?
She’s been trying to disassociate for a while, and I worry she may actually accomplish it. Up until this last one, I said she was more compartmentalizing than dissociating.
The differences is whether each persona retains full memory of the other’s actions.
The last sentence is where people disagree. To my mind, memory sharing is not an indicator it is not DID (but then I knew someone who shared memories between some personas but had other who were out of the loop).
Though, if the decisive word is “full memory” as in knows everything the other persona does, thinks or feels, I don’t know how we can tell (in comic or in the real world). Even normal PTSD does strange things to what can be voluntarily remembered.
It boggles my mind thst people do this. Have a friend who divorced a little while ago, and when a group of us met up he declared that if anyone wanted to, they could still keep in touch with her. Meanwhile I’d met up with her the day before and i knew the other couple in the group were seeing her the next day. Caught up with them afterwards and we all agreed it was an odd thing to say, but maybe it’s more common than I realised?
I think telling your friends they can’t see your ex is a crappy thing to do, but there are times where recently broken up couples do try to make their friends choose between each other. If that’s the case, I think it’s reasonable to make it clear to your friends that you’re not going to make them “choose”. With that said, it depends how you frame it. There’s a difference between saying “I won’t make you choose between me and my ex, that would be a crappy thing to do”, and saying “I give you permission to see my ex.” No one gets to decide who their friends can or can’t be friends with.
And that’s what’s awful and over controlling about what Amber/ Amazigirl’s doing here. She’s not respecting Ethan’s autonomy and right to be friends with people he likes. Heck, she did the same thing to Danny with Sal.
There are always relationships that go down in flames in a way that makes people take sides. But someone explicitly stating “you are still free to talk to my ex” is rather wired, because… You are free to do so anyway. You do not need his permission or even agreement.
It might be interesting to ask what he was actually trying to say.
When there are trust-issues, people may want to influence who you are talking to – like amber’s mother probably wouldn’t trust a friend of Blaine – but she would probably tell you in a different way.
Trying to control who of your friends still is friends with your ex for any other reason is involving people where they don’t belong. At best.
Danny didn’t decide, he was pointed in the right direction and he went there. I mean I don’t think it was a decision to stand up to her like you make it sound, it was more a caring type of decision: trying to let her know that she is in big trouble.
IKR? It’s like the more disillusioned and depressed he gets, the more likeable he becomes. Probably not good for his character, but good for the audience.
I hope that Danny goes full anti villain leading to an epic battle with Sal. Where Sal demands to know why Danny turned away from the light, leading Danny to say it was because no one appreciated him. “not you, nor Amber or…my parents!”
Sal says she knows how he feels, ultimately leading to cool down hugs and the required “I was a good guy who turned evil, but know I’m turning good again at the last minute” heroic sacrifice.
Ethan buddy the comments section loves you man but you GOTTA stand up to your caped crusading bestie. Otherwise she’s gonna go coocoo for someone’s goddamn Cocoa Puffs.
I mean, at least if Danny pushes Ethan away, he knows there’s still someone there for Amber. If she finds out Ethan is still, uh, “Grata” with Danny, she might push him away, too.
Aaand now I’m Imagineering ng Puppy Ethan with Danny saying “no goaway, I never loved you!”
Phrase meaning Person of No Status, or doesn’t exist. Since ‘Amber’ texted that, kinda carries the implication that Danny is dead to her. Strong feelings there, no doubt.
Lmao Amber’s gonna start threatening the guy she saved from her dad’s physical violence with more physical violence and then follow that up by beating up her gay best friend hahaha what a dumbass
I see Amber’s still doing her Blaine impression. I can’t be the only person who felt sick when she said what she said when she broke up with Danny. It was almost exactly the same way Blaine talked about Amber’s mom.
The thing is, Amber knows how she is acting, she just A) cannot face it without having a complete, critical mental breakdown as a result, and B) her rationalization for the time that she is spending acting like that is that she is “fucked up” and that those actions are an “inevitable” result of her long-term trauma. She puts more energy into controlling the world around her such that nobody she deems valuable or unworthy of malice is ever exposed to this side of her that she considers an unavoidable consequence of her being, than she does finding a way to change in such a way that said consequence is eliminated, because she does not honestly believe the latter is actually possible for her.
Oh, yikes. Amber telling her loved ones who they can or can’t hang out with – I’m guessing without even giving Ethan a valid reason – is, well…… I mean, she’s BEEN throwing up all manner of red flags for a while now, but at this point she’s shot past all the flags and is squarely in the danger zone. Amber needs help, yes, but at this point people who love her might need to separate themselves for their own emotional (and possibly physical) well-being. She’s flat-out abusive. It’s not about “tendencies” anymore; she’s past that.
I will say that this is a pretty strikingly en-pointe portrayal of emotionally abusive, controlling friends and loved ones. Most of the time they’re not across-the-board Evil Rotten Villains; they have appealing or even lovable qualities to them that makes it really, really hard to walk away from them no matter how they treat you. Even when you know you should.
…………THAT ASIDE! eeeeeeeeeeeee danny and ethan i love these two <3
Don’t make a joke about having already been on the highway, don’t make a joke about having already been on the highway, don’t make a joke about having already been on the highway…
This is why abusers so rarely change, sadly. The people who have gotten to know them best end up being forced to choose between ‘helping’ or continuing to be abused. They disengage, the abuser is faced with self-seeking or denial, they choose the latter, and continue the cycle with new people. 🙁
This is going to lead to the question as to why Danny is persona non grata and then Ethan is going to have to make a decision to turn a blind eye to Amber’s self destructive behavior or confront her. If she cuts Ethan off too then she’ll be alone and in a darker place than before.
Or Ethan could ask Amber what the problem is, learn Sal’s identity, and then allow Danny to understand what her problem with Sal is. And then with full knowledge he can evaluate the situation for himself.
I personally think this plot just got really interesting. I didn’t care about these two before this shitstorm. But at the same time I’ve been dying inside for but seeing Joyce.
I want a lot more Sal too. Basically anything that’s not that ruth-carla-mary shit, it’s really unbearable when there isn’t a single character I even remotely like in the subplot.
I’m not as into the Amber storyline as others either, but like all the other main characters, her struggles are relevant and decently written. Joyce and her family dynamics are my jam too though. Can’t wait to get back to that. 🙂
That’s pretty normal. Everyone has their favourites and their dislikes.
I’m pretty invested in all the characters, the only one I remotely dislike is Ruth whenever she’s not trying to deal with her depression and alcoholism. That’s pretty rare for any work of fiction.
It is not that unusual for a girl to expect her best friend not to stay friends with her ex.
What matters is how she responds if he decides otherwise.
I do note that she did not forcefully out Ethan when he was trying to hide who he was. So maybe there’s some hope here. Ethan’s been her friend longer.
I honestly never saw Ethan as letting Amber make decisions for him so much. Yeah, she decided to break up with him when he told her he was gay, but that’s just normal.
And, seeing as Amber is not going to go truly insane and kill people or anything, the only way I can see this working is if everyone stands up to her.
And since people have said that Willis is against therapy, that’s not going to be it. It’s gonna be people standing up to her, and her getting into trouble where she needs friends again.
Yeah, back when I was that age, it was expected that when a relationship ended badly, people would cut ties with one person or the other. Is that mature? Hell no. Is that abusive? Also hell no.
Demanding that someone cut ties with someone is an abusive action. Doing so as a matter of course because “they upset my friend” is not. We don’t actually know which is (Danny expected) going on here, and I’m not going to pass judgement until we do.
Kind of frustrated at the way people are so eager to call a mentally ill abuse survivor abusive herself because what…she yelled at her boyfriend while she was dissociating? Not a good thing for her to do. I’d even agree that that specific action was abusive. But abuse is a cycle, a pattern, not an isolated event and especially not one she was immediately horrified and contrite over. The breakup? I expected people to express concern over that, given that she’s clearly getting worse and worse, to the point of paranoia. Instead in the comments it’s mostly judgement and people calling her a terrible person.
Maybe I’m projecting. I’m an abuse survivor with dissociative events myself. But it’s still frustrating.
…Like I said, normalized. Demanding someone else cut ties because a relationship is over (Which is what’s likely happening here) is generally a retributive action. But, let’s take this at its best – this is purely because Theoretical Construct!Danny troubles Amber and Amazi-girl, whether or not through any fault of Danny’s, because that’s not immediately relevant. Amber telling Ethan that TC!Danny isn’t welcome is fine. It means don’t invite TC!Danny if you want to invite me, or if it’s about me, and don’t expect to have hijm at any hangouts, etc. That’s good communication to avoid a fight. I’ll go a step further here – “don’t talk to me about TC!Danny” is fine too. All of this is ultimately personalized – it’s about what you’re willing to put up with, and it’s centered on interactions with you.
An expectation that Ethan stop speaking to TC!Danny, *period*, however, is still wrong. Even in its most plausibly permissible, you’re still controlling someone else’s actions without your mental health as an actual stake. And no, it isn’t really much less terrible to place this as an unspoken expectation over which you will passively aggress, rather than loud demands that someone stop.
I don’t know which Amber expects here, but the narrative strongly suggests ‘don’t talk to Danny’ – it is, after all, how ETHAN is acting as well. But whether or not Amber or Amazigirl is choosing to (Either passively or actively) aggressively prevent Ethan and Danny talk, or not, has no bearing on whether it’s an okay thing to do. She may be acting in an okay way, because it *IS* true that she may simply mean “Don’t expect us to hang out together”, but even at the passive aggressive level… “Don’t talk to your friend just because we’re no longer dating” isn’t bloody okay.
Also, lol. People treat Amber in the most incredibly light manner they can here. So, you know, pull the other one. I hadn’t even been talking about her in this context.
Again, we have absolutely no current information that she’s trying to isolate anyone from anything. We have one line that amounts to “Amber says she hates you now” and a bunch of Danny’s assumptions. You are continuing to completely misinterpret my comments about teenage relationships–it wasn’t “you better stop hanging out with my ex,” it was “I hate your ex now because they broke your heart.” That’s my personal experience. And frankly I’m starting to feel like you’re putting words in my mouth.
“We have no current information she’s trying to isolate anyone.”
Well. We kind of have Ethan concurring with Danny that this is the intent, which true, might be mistaken, but it’s certainly not NOTHING.
And like, if this is ‘putting words in your mouth’, well, talk better. This is the first you actually, really clarified. In the context of the conversation, it says… well, not what you wanted at all, tbh.
We have Ethan reacting to Danny’s assumptions by saying he’s his own damn person. That is a far reach if you must go that route.
Turns out I don’t talk that good when people are jumping to conclude that people with my particular cocktail of mental illness bullshit are abusive. Who’d’a thunk.
Like…seriously, I’m rereading and I see nothing that conclusively says “Amber told me I can’t talk to you anymore.” Here’s how I’m reading it:
Ethan: Amber just texted me she hates you now.
Danny: [assumption that this means Ethan will cut ties with him]
Ethan: What? Are we not friends anymore, or?
Danny: [further assumption that friends will now be divided and Amber will get Ethan]
Ethan: Dude, I’m not an extension of her, I just regard her opinions and advice highly most of the time.
I agree that something being common doesn’t make it not abuse, but, in a society where abuse is vilified, it points that direction.
A better argument might be to sit down and define abuse. I define an abusive action as something done to another person and designed to hurt them, or with reckless disregard to how much it hurts them.
Hence, merely expecting your friend not to be friends with your ex is not abuse on its own. If, when that person chooses otherwise, you react in an abusive faction, then it becomes abuse. That’s when it becomes controlling.
Heck, Amber could just stop being friends with Ethan, and that wouldn’t be abuse. If she yells like at Danny, that’s borderline abuse. If she belittles him, calls him stupid or worthless, and ultimately tries to make him feel bad, that’s definite abuse territory. And, obviously, if she react with physical violence, that’s flat out physical abuse.
I currently think that the reason her reaction was so bad was because Sal was there, triggering her into a panic, where she called on her “Amazi-girl” persona to choose “fight” inteaqd of “flight” or “freeze.” As long as Sal’s not there, her reaction will be calmer, I think.
So I actually hope she’ll just get into an argument with him, and he’ll stand up for Danny, and maybe she’ll figure some things out. Though her dropping Ethan as a friend is a possibility, too–the one I said where she’ll drop him, have something bad happen, and need her friends more than ever.
“In a society where abuse is villified” assumes a conclusion that isn’t merited. Many abusive behaviors are strenuously defended or otherwise normalized.
And like, you’re kind of ignoring your own definition, which is incredibly permissive on its own.
“or with reckless disregard to how much it hurts them.”
Expecting ties to be cut just because they’re your ex puts exactly zero concern on how much your friend values that friendship. It can end up non-harmful regardless (I really doubt Mike would be fucked at not talking to Danny), but that’s a matter of fortune. “Reckless Disregard” is assumed in the action itself.
You’re right that she could stop being friends – friendship is a two-way street. But making that action contingent on him not communicating with her ex is, guess what, still being done to control him. And it actually doesn’t matter whether she yells at him, or whether she simply passively aggressively makes his life a living hell for doing it.
“Its not unusual for a girl…”
at their age, yes. They still don’t know how rare friends are and that your relationship decisions are your own to make.
I wonder what she actually texted. Did she write to Ethan that she broke up with Danny and she never want’s to see him again, or did she actually say he’s “persona non grata” and good riddance?
Now wouldn’t be the best time but considering the chemistry these two have, if they do hook up, it’s just another thing that Amber will hold against both of them.
Exactly. Unwanted and no status, and particularly no boyfriend status. This does not translate into instructions to stay away from Danny. The expectation is Danny projecting.
Amber is poison. Let’s just acknowledge here that “isolate the target of your abuse from his or her support network” is like Step 1 of How To Be An Abuser.
It strikes me that Amber has been wearing Ethan down a lot longer than she has Danny. Not intentionally, nor consciously, but we’ve seen that there are things that Amber just puts her foot down on and expects you to go along with.
So all those battered spouse moments that Danny had with Amber? Multiply that by a factor of ten, here.
And that’s about to be tested. Amber expects him to cut ties.
Well, it was nice knowing Amber then. She can go deal with her issues on her own until she realizes she needs help. I’m sure Ethan and Danny will wait for her.
Amber clearly didn’t tell Ethan the whole story. Because this would look a lot different if she had said “I broke up with Danny because he thinks I need to take a break from vigilante justice because he thinks it’s “dangerous” and he’s “worried about me.” I also may have implied I want to die.”
I don’t understand this thought process. Of course Amber’s going to tell her side, but it’s going to be something more like “I found out Danny’s bffs with convenience store girl and is siding with her over me.” Because that’s her grievance here. Which is normal human nature.
I mean don’t get me wrong, girl needs help and has for a long time, but I think the comments are being needlessly grim.
She’s abusive, she’s toxic, she’s violent, she’s unwilling to seek help, and she’s trying to isolate Danny from his friends. I don’t really see a whole lot of difference between her and Toedad, except for the fig leaf of religiosity, it’s just that people are willing to cut her slack.
Because pulling a gun on people and kidnapping your daughter is exactly the same thing as yelling at boyfriend because you’re having a mental breakdown.
Because trying not to be abusive and channeling all of your anger into trying to fight criminals is the same thing as intentionally abusing someone.
Because telling a loved one they aren’t worthless and freaking out that they accidentally said they were is the same thing as telling a loved one they are worthless and seeing no problem with it.
Amber is a good person being held down by a mental illness. Like most people with a mental illness, she doesn’t really know she needs help. And you’ll notice no one has tried to get her that help. She had an abusive father who broke her mind.
And, yet, until very recently, she’s been doing well. Even her crime fighting was actually legal, believe it or not. People don’t seem to realize you can fight back against criminals if they don’t back down. You can even fight to defend public property.
Amber is a good person with a mental illness that is causing her to do bad things. Russ is just a bad person, doing much worse things. They are not the same. And I am so tired of this desire to vilify her for the things causes by her illness.
Even you realize she NEEDS HELP. She’s not remotely like ToeDad, who NEEDS PUNISHMENT, hence why he’s in jail.
Bluntly, and in as few words as possible – Toedad ‘just’ needs help too. There is little to nothing there that is totally impossible to have formed in someone else with the same upbringing. Additionally, punishment is aggressively useless. I don’t know that he can be helped, and I sure as fuck don’t want to risk my life to try, but society as a whole would be better if he could be, and was, helped, and if folks in a similar position could be, and was.
It being hard (and it very much is) or stressful (Almost definitely is) isn’t the same thing as not being preferable.
“There you see him, sitting there across the way
He may have a lot to say
But there’s something about him
And you don’t know why
But you’re dying to try
You wanna kiss the kiss the boy!”
What? Can you think of a better way to supress the personal freedoms of a nation and indoctrinate their children into believing they have more freedom than any other people on the planet?
I wanted to say something intellectual or at the very least rational, but all I could think of was “MAKE OUT DAMMIT, WIPE THAT BITTER FROWN OFF HIS FACE”
Hmmm, but we have seen Ethan make his own decisions in general before. I mean, he did tell Joyce he was gay because of her but I’m struggling to think of other examples? Maybe it’s time to mine the Ethan tag.
Honestly I think it’s more the issue that while Ethan can voice his concerns he’s not the type to go ‘Okay that’s fucking it. I’ve tried but I can’t get through to you’ And tell Amber’s mother what’s going down. Y’know like Mike might if he was in any way a good person. Or cared about anyone other than himself.
Granted I’m guessing it’s perhaps like that time from shortpacked, where her mother said (in a flashback to when Amber and Ethan first met) in order to make up for how terrible Amber’s father is she was a bit too lenient in the other direction as a way to compensate. Perhaps Ethan almost filled that role? Partly because he saw up front centre about her dad plus because of the support she gave him in senior high school? And Danny then too? Because he was so starstruck and amazed. (In addition to Danny being a doormat in general thanks to parents).
But more seriously how much does Amber’s mother know about her daughter? Did she ever find out about Blaine suddenly appearing? I mean all we’ve gotten is her seduced by Joe’s dad which made her late to meet her daughter and that’s kind of it.
Right, Ethan was this combination of best friend and carer for her through most of their youth, so it makes sense that he takes her into account by reflex now. He’s also just…kind of a passive person in general. But he has personhood and agency outside of her, demonstrably.
I’m pretty sure Amber is afraid to involve her mother in anything to do with her Blainy side, but hopefully Ethan at least knows how to contact her if needed.
This is the thing that I hoped for but also feared. Ethan is going to go to Amber, tell her that she’s screwed up and hurt a perfectly good guy in the process. Totally isolated and with this feeding into the “A monster I am” delusion that’s at the centre of Amber’s problems, Amazi-Girl goes off the rails in a fully Frank Miller-ite Bat-rampage.
on another note, do you even know how painful it is to read some of your comments while being a depressed person who hates themselves and then has a special person that for some stupid reason loves you and just wont leave and you just feel like youre ruining their life and hurting them and you know every time you tell them you want to die or youre a horrible person or start only responding with short answers you know it might hurt them but you cant really control it because its your feelings and they dont want you to lie and put up a charade, do they? youre wondering when theyll ger enough cause you know how horrible you are, you know how emotionally exhausting it must be to talk to you that much and you inform them that they can leave whenever they want and they just say they wont
Yeah, I feel you. I never thought I’d say this about a webcomic comment section, but it’s kind of emotionally draining seeing so much “god why doesn’t this traumatized abuse victim with a mental health disorder just fuck off.”
And, like, that last sequence with her totally killed off a lot of my connection to her character, so it’s not like I blame people for being alienated from her, she was being absolutely awful to Danny, but, still, it sucks. It sucks to see so much venom towards a character I deeply related to, and it sucks to understand why people are thinking it.
Of course it would have helped if Danny had actually listened to her explanation of who Sal is before launching into to his Sal inspired spiel on her coping mechanism, the one that attracted him to her in the first place. It would possibly have lead to a more nuanced discussion and some possible consideration of other points of view on both their parts.
Reading comments on this arc has been so emotionally draining it’s even started making me physically ill. The intense feelings of terror, shame, and self-hatred I feel about ever ‘becoming my abuser’ were hard to overcome, even with supportive messages from people explaining why that sort of thing is so harmful and how that line of thinking is crap. Now I get to read tons of comments saying that Amber is Blaine, like Blaine, or ‘turning into Blaine’ without any thought to the harm that does to mentally ill people and mentally ill survivors in particular. The cycle of abuse is a thing, but this has never been Amber being Blaine, this is Amber with mental illness and reactions that stem from it that end up harming other people- like, we’ve seen how Blaine operates and this is not it.
It’s terrifying to see so many people advocating to just cut her off and leave her isolated and give up on her completely. As someone who is a mess (not to the extent Amber is), it makes me panic even more about exposing myself to other people. I really, really get you.
Yeah, and this isn’t even a new thing either. I remember back in December where Amber had a freakout that lasted all of one panel, and I saw tons of “god shes such a piece of shit cut her off danny”
And, yeah, I have a massive complex over the idea of becoming my abuser, to the point where even though I recognize that anger is a perfectly rational emotion and everyone feels it, I either force myself to bottle it until I freak the fuck out, or just feel guilty about being angry about dumb shit. So I loved how Amber basically had all those same thoughts I did and had that same struggle, and the constant stream of “why is amber such an asshole” was hugely frustrating for me.
I’m really hoping that Amber’s actions last time were an intended low point for her character so she could start picking herself up, and not like “yep this abuse victim is definitely the total shitfucker she knew she was, cycle of abuse lol”
I’m holding on mostly because I can’t believe Willis is going to take the story in a direction that leaves Amber an unredeemed villain. Which is where it looks to be going right now, at least on the surface.
That rock bottom low point may just be a little lower than I was hoping it would be.
I could’ve done without the abuse victim having to learn not to be an abuser. It just feels, I dunno, like, really stereotypical? Like, oh of course, she’s an abuse victim and she didn’t come out of it a fucking zen monk like Sal and Ethan. Obviously the only worthwhile story for this character is her overcoming her inherent vileness as a person.
Not like we’re gonna see Billie fight off her Natural Bisexual Urges to cheat on Ruth all the time. Until now Amber’s story was all about how she was someone mentally ill who had bucketloads of trauma to deal with and deserved love and support, because despite all the bullshit heaped on her she was still a good person, and despite her best efforts to bury it as deeply as possible all that rage would break out, and at best this is just going to end with Amber realizing that she’s being awful after Sal punches her in the face and goes “we’re not so different y’all and I”.
I think I should take a break from this series, at least until we get a better idea of where Amber’s storyline is going, at any rate. It’s depressing to see that Amber’s story is now just the typical “abuse victim becomes an abuser” storyline, and where I am in my life right now it’s not really something I think I want to see in fiction.
I don’t think the story has so much taken this turn as the comment section has taken this turn. I think it’s still the abuse victim successfully manages to cope with her inherited tendency towards violence and abuse and manages to help a lot of people as she does so story. Doesn’t mean there aren’t ups and downs and the occasional misunderstandings with the supportive boyfriend.
oh dear. im really sorry for you two. it must be even worse for you to read these comments. i dont have an abuser, cause i havent been abused, so the comments that hit me must be fewer. im really scared of that i just am or will become an abuser, without having one you know. i guess its like almost the same but without the connection to a specific person and without having been abused. im really really scared that im actually a horrible person and that i abuse people or that i will abuse people (which doesnt get better ny the fsct that i hate myself and think im a horrible person) i love, and many comments on the strips related to amber are kinda confirming it in some sense.
i hope the comments section get better so you guys wont have to stop coming here or reading the comic. i dont really know how to show my support so just know that you have it
Yep. It’s seriously upsetting, especially since people here are generally so good. But apparently mentally ill people have to be 100% perfect and show no signs of it whatsoever, or else they’re terrible people who are just like their abuser.
Like, I could accept “Amber needs to get help and Danny needs to get away from her for his own emotional health til she’s got a better grip on reality,” because it demonstrably is affecting him. Because that’s not blaming her for it, just acknowledging that something’s gotta give. But nope, apparently she’s a bad person and just like her father. Okay.
i dont really see anything that says that amber has asked ethan to “dump” danny here. i see them speculating about it, because thats the most logical assumption, that they shouldnt be friends anymore and that maybe amber wouldnt wqnt them to. but he doesnt say that amber asked him not to talk to danny. she just texted that they had broken up?
Persona Non Grata is a term used to express that a person is essentially exiled from a social circle (when it’s not used to ban people from entering a country’s borders), but also as a warning that if anyone are observed in that person’s company, there will be consequences.
Amber calling Danny Persona Non Grata is basically her telling her friends that if they’re serious about their friendship, they’ll stay far away from Danny. It’s not a term used lightly.
My memory is faulty, has Ethan crossed paths with Sal outside flashbacks? It occurs to me he could be the one to untangle this situation in the right circumstances.
Am I alone hoping that Danny and Ethan NOT get together, at all? People keep saying how cute they are, but… ennnhhh. I like them better as friends, and it feels ridiculously one-sided at the moment.
Yeah, I really don’t see the huge appeal in it. I get that Ethan’s nice and supportive, sure, but he’s been a pretty vanilla character so far and I don’t really think he’s interesting enough that, until now, he could contribute anything interesting to Danny’s character that Danny could do both with Amber and with Ethan as this beacon of strange new feelings he doesn’t get. Mind, I imagine a huge amount of my dislike for it stems from the nonstop deluge of “CAN DANNY DUMP/CHEAT ON HIS GIRLFRIEND AND FUCK THE ONE OTHER QUEER DUDE WHY ISNT HE BEING A REAL BISEXUAL YET”
I mean, I know a not-insignificant amount is coming from “omg two queer dudes they have to immediately fuck”, but that can’t be the only reason people want it.
I just think they’re cute together. Danny obviously likes him at least a little bit, and it sort of felt like Ethan liked him too. I don’t care about fucking, though. I just want them to be happy, and bond over comic books and stuff some more. Maybe in a romantic way, if they’re so inclined. But definitely not right now, because this would kill the Amber.
No, yeah, there’s plenty of legit reasons to like it, don’t get me wrong. I’m not into it but it’s not like every single person who is only likes it because they’re fetishizing Danny’s sexuality. Those folks I’m okay with being creeped out by, though, because I see way, way too much uncomfortable fetishization of bisexuality.
My thoughts were that Ethan was complaining about being “defined by his being gay” (or something like that). I thought it would be more valuable for him to have a platonic friend to show that yes, you can be gay, but also continue to be the comic book geek, without one facet of your life overriding the other.
I can absolutely see “Amber” (actually, basically, Blaine talking through her and/or AG) telling her friends who they are and aren’t allowed to talk to.
And that chills me.
Sort of. Technically it’s true. But it was much more focused on Sal than on the typical abusive isolating, controlling kind of behavior.
Danny needs to stay away from Sal because Sal is a monster in her eyes, not because Danny isn’t allowed other friends.
Mind you, that’s still screwed up as hell, because it’s all tied up in Amber’s trauma’s and her (proto-)DID, but it’s a very different kind of screwed up. If she was right about Sal being a monster, then her reaction wouldn’t be seen as abusive at all. Imagine for example, Joyce’s reaction to seeing Ethan casually hanging out with Ryan.
I am not clear on the distinction between wannabe armchair psychologists and actual armchair psychologists. Are there courses and degrees in ArmPsy? Certification authorities?
And who organizes the legions and appoints the officers?
It is probably hard for Danny to understand why Amber blew up at him, being in the dark about Sal (darn you dramatic irony!!!), but maybe he can explain to Ethan what Sal told him because she is right. Amber almost got killed. Twice. Maybe Ethan can reach her since she cared so deeply for him and she can get what her shit dad refused to do for her. Get her therapy and real help to start dealing with her flashbacks and fears, and maybe a better coping mechanism than a mask. She probably knows the risks involved, but maybe Ethan can nail in the message “If Amazi-girl dies, we lose you too and we don’t want that.”
Y’know, it just struck me how much the situation involving Amber is like what’s-her-name, Sarah’s ex-roomie. She’s in a bad place and everyone around her is either oblivious to her situation, ill-equipped to help, or, mostly, both. And just like in that situation, the best outcome is that someone reports the situation to competent authorities (assuming the competent authorities can identify Blaine as ill-fitting caretaker), even though that’s going to result in ridiculous amounts of unwarranted flak towards that someone.
You have a point there. The trouble may be that most of us do not really believe there is any authority figure in comic that is equipped to deal with Amber’s situation. Moving her off to any herefore never mentioned clinic or therapist would be bad story telling, like an Angel appearing to solve all problems.
And yes, Amber acts abusively towards people who are close to her. And she doesn’t take responsibility for it. Her shame attacks are not different from those most abusers. As long as she doesn’t take the responsibility and looks actively for a solution, her acts will become worse over time.
And so we, as readers, have to deal with not liking the actions of a character that used to be interesting, likeable and funny. And just like in real life, this is difficult to bear.
On the other hand, in this case the unwarranted flack is almost entirely going to come from Amber herself. Most everybody who has any real interest in her either knows the full situation, or enough to believe it when they’re told. Joyce and Becky are the only likely ones to have a bad reaction, and even there, I think being told the whole story would be enough to get them on-side.
Oh hell. I remember this crap from when I was a college freshman. Breakups and the requisite “taking of sides” that happened because of them. I officially have no patience for anyone who says I can’t be friends with anyone I want to, barring some very serious abuse signs.
OOTOH, formally stated or not, it tends to happen. Even without the abuse or any manipulation. Especially in the kind of college age tight groups of friends. When the breakup is at the point where it’s not comfortable for the two to hang out together, even in a group, one of them isn’t going to get invited to the group activities. Or the group itself is going to mostly split up.
Not so much “You can’t be friends with him” as “We can’t invite them both to the party or there’ll be a scene.” A good chunk of the manipulation, if it’s there, may just be to insure you’re not the one who gets cut off.
I, um, may be risking a scene this June, but dangit I don’t know that many people in the city and the escape room needs around 8, so I’m not gonna split my top choices into 2 groups of 4!
I’m pretty sure people can remain civil for an hour, the guestlist isn’t a surprise to anyone.
“Persona non grata” ooh, ooh, I know what means! And people said I’d never learn anything from video games.
Definitely feel where Ethan’s coming from. Had a few people I know/knew in high school break up, and one of them would always think I didn’t want anything to do with them any more. Almost always came down to me telling them, “Look, I still want to hang out because you were never an ass. Yeah, [so-and-so] was my friend first, but I also know they can be wrong sometimes.” Unlike Ethan, however, none of my friends dressed up in spandex/latex and a cape to go fight crime and ‘evildoers’. Except the one person. But he was a cosplayer and at most fought littering at conventions.
You know, some people are being too hard on Amber, but I have so much fiery hate for the idea that A: actions that people take while coping with a mental illness can’t also be abusive actions and B: actions that people take with sympathetic reasons can’t also be abusive. Both of those are both reasons people use to excuse and minimize abusive actions, and to guilt victims into staying in abusive situations and frankly its concerning to see them repeated so much here. Amber can be both a person who is doing abusive things that Danny needs to get away with AND a person who is doing her best to cope with mental illness and needs help AND that being true does not mean that mental illness OR abuse victims are doomed to be abusive.
Yes. This. We can call Amber’s behavior exactly what it is – abusive behavior – while also acknowledging that she’s trying her best to be a good person while coming from a messed-up background, and is in need of help.
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but beyond theory the writer decides who gets you.
But who makes the decisions for the one who decides for the decider?
He who watches the Watchmen.
And since I saw that movie, I call dibs
Sorry, when you say that all I can think of is Thud!
Ah sir Sam Vimes the man who watches the watchmen and also watches himself
nope, sorry. all over my head
BLASPHEMY!!
But seriously, Ya’ll need some Terry Pratchett in your life.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Who shall guard the guards?)
A well supported one theory at least, when has Ethan ever backed down to Amber, he did’t over Joyce, that indent with the crowbar and spiders, and he lost no ground over Sal. Did I miss something?
Remind me of the incident with the crowbar and the spiders?
Remind me of the incident with Amber, Ethan and Sal.
Very early on he and mike were going to go to lunch with her, she was killing spiders on WOW(?) and stalled they dragged he to lunch with a crowbar.
Much later Ethan used logic to point out that they were not in a position to judge sal on her past whilst reaming unaware that sal was the robber who held him at knife point.
In the crowbar incident, he didn’t back down to Amber because Mike was scarier. But your other points stand.
Amber decides for Ethan.
Mike decides for Amber.
Your Mom decides for Mike.
For a nickle.
Amber/AG have never been around when Ethan interacted with Sal. If she knew, she would probably have gone bananas by now.
Danny, stop being a dick and kiss him. Kiss him right now.
It’s only a theory, but he’s been working really hard on it.
Will THIS finally be the moment where they kiss? ^_^
Let’s hope so! hahahaha
Kissing someone else (let alone her best friend) 10 minutes after they break up is kind of a dick move, even if the break up was entirely her fault.
Yeah, too soon guys.
Too soon even for me
Best avatar ever for that comment.
In this case, a two dick move.
Thank you
Hot.
I mean, I ascribe to the idea that once a relationship is over, you don’t owe your ex anything, but I guess I kinda see where you’re coming from. Still, these two could use something good, even if it’s only for a moment.
Your ex making out with your other ex ten minutes after your break up is is a little bit different, though.
Taking the situation as a whole, though, them doing anything right now is really shitty to Amber, the girl they both actually do care about.
I agree that Danny doesn’t owe Amber anything. Ethan is actually still her best friend, though, so………… usually there is some consideration involved when your best friend moves to hook up with your ex.
Besides which, Amber’s romantic feelings are actually the least of the problems with Danny diving headfirst into Ethan’s arms here. Other issues like “Danny is on a major rebound” and “Ethan is still uncomfortable with being gay” and “when you need the support of a friend, you usually don’t want to complicate that with potential romantic rejection”.
Speaking as the voice of experience on the last one especially. I have had major feelings for friends after a breakup and squashed them because I needed that support much much more than I wanted to risk being rejected twice in 24 hours.
Well i actually first kissed my current bf when i went to comfort him as he and his gf(who was my friend at the time as well),had just broken up.
I feel it was a dick move as he kissed me. Stuff just happened.
I can’t, at all, agree with this. If this was during the relationship, then definitely
If there is a god, THEN YES.
You know what they say Ethan: Behind a strong man, there is a strong woman.
Unless it’s the Ethan/Danny Slipshine.
something something threesome something something pegging
Now all I can picture is a bright blue strap-on with a heavily stylized ‘A’ for the head and the word ‘Amazing’ written down the length of the shaft looming over a pale white ass. I’m very confused by this mental image.
O:
Amazi-dong is always prepared for anything. ANYTHING.
and is also immune to criticism.
She’s the decider. You’re either with her or against her.
And whatever you do, don’t misunderestimate her Freedom Fries.
OK, so I had to go and look up what the living fuck “Freedom Fries” were and my brain is sad now. So thanks for that.
Yeah. *sigh* Yeah.
Yeah, turns out the Bush years are the kind of forbidden knowledge where the slightest sliver can break your brain. Like Lovecraft if Cthulhu had a ten-gallon hat.
Hey, I remember reading about World War I and Liberty Steaks back in my high-school history class in the 90s, and *that* made my brain a bit sad. Then we started doing it again a century later, against a country we weren’t even at war with, and my brain was more “WTF?”
My favorite meal, c. 1917, a nice Liberty Steak with a pile of Freedom Cabbage on the side. Ah!
Freedom Cabbage being, of course, sauerkraut. How fitting that Bush & Co. even had to steal even their snarky pseudo-patriotic idioms.
You’re “othered” and disowned, and it’s your fault she hates you, unless you back her ideology 100% and never move from that position?
Sounds about right.
The flipside of my joke above:
This is what ‘immune to criticism’ actually looks like.
Come on Ethan, your Spidey senses should be tingling about Amber…
Is Willis gonna give the shippers what they want???? Or is he out to rip out more hearts?
first one. Then the other.
Yep, standard Willis protocol.
No, it’s not. He’ll look like he’s doing that, then you realize predictions are doomed.
You realize that the real god of this universe is Murphy, right?
You mean Capt. Murphy (USAF), scion of Eris, Goddess of Discord?
Rinse and repeat until they’re left weeping on the floor futilely trying to abandon ship.
What a great character. I can’t wait to see the…. bloodied, beaten, and broken
…. wait, not both simultaneously?
It’s too early. Expect the first Ethan-Danny kiss sometime around 2022.
Yes.
Thinkin’ the same thing.
Oh god he’s taking this really hard, the poor guy.
Yeah… hey Danny I know this isn’t the best time but now that you and Amber broken up you wouldn’t mind if I took a shot that huh?
And Ethan wants to give it to him hard.
I’ll see myself out.
I feel a Slipshine on the horizon…
Much as I would enjoy that, at this point in time that would be incredibly ill-advised. It would essentially be rebound sex with Amber’s best friend t’ whom she still harbors unresolved issues in regards to his coming out piled on top a’ everything else.
Danny’s not the sharpest tool in the shed by a friggin’ long shot, but I doubt even he’d be that dumb.
*plays Bobby Brown’s “My Perogative” on the hacked Muzak*
Good choice!
nice
*puts “One Week” by Barenaked Ladies on the iPod dock*
Now’s the time for Joe’s encouragement for kissing.
It might even work this time.
If Ethan’s the kid in this scenario, that just adds a whole new layer of complication.
I hope that Danny explains what happened and that Ethan also sees Amber is risking her life. Ethan is probably the only person at the school right now who might be able to get through to Amber that what she’s doing is dangerous (and that a lot of her actions are veering perilously close to things her father might do).
I’m not sure she’d listen. But it’ll definitely help, that she can’t blame Ethan with being influenced by Sal, so that’s good for a start.
I hope he at least says “Holy shit, she totally got mad at you for talking to someone she has never once indicated was a traumatic figure in her past. I’ll go straighten this whole thing out” *proceeds to yell at amber about communication be the key to good relationships*
Cause yelling’s good communicatin’!
Best grav.
Ethan doesn’t even know that Sal is the traumatic figure from Amber’s past, though.
But that doesn’t follow the script, where Blaine and Sal are pure evil and Amazi-Girl exists as a paragon of good, sworn to protect Amber from them. It will likely elicit the same kind of “you know better than that, shame on you” response Danny was given, if she doesn’t outright dismiss Ethan as well.
Amber has built herself this comfortable internal comic book narrative as a coping mechanism, and she needs help coming back to objective reality before she can actually confront the underlying causes of her distress.
Exactly. She is not a villain, she just needs help. Mental illness is still illness, no one would call her a bad person for having, say, appendicitis.
Yet another appendicitis apologist.
Okay, I laughed. Thank you, I needed that.
THIS.
i couldn’t word it so perfectly before, but it is most definitely an oversimplified, black-and-white, comic-book-style narrative.
Dannyboy, it might not seem like it now, but this is good for you. Amber is poison. She has to sort her shit out first and a well meaning boyfriend is clearly not helping her.
But maybe a well-meaning boyfriend could help Danny?
Huh, huh?
And by that, I mean Danny should go have sex with Mike.
Absolutely.
Hey, it worked for other universe Amber.
Not sure I’d characterize Mike as ‘well-meaning’…
All joking aside, I’ve sadistically been wanting Mike to get to Danny before Ethan does. It sounds like something Mike would do, in order to dick with both Amber and Ethan at once.
I’m pretty sure he’d be dicking with Danny too.
…I’ll let myself out.
Do you realize you’re named after delicious spice?
Heh. its funny, my username was actually based of my first original character and it wasn’t until years later that I realized the spice existed.
Technically though the spice is spelled zaatar. I’m just missing an A.
Not the bad guy from In Conquest Born?
I’d never heard of this so now I pretty much have to read it.
Trigger warning for just short of Gor-level societal misogyny.
Yeah well if you want to get real precise it’s za’atar. But still close enough to make me wish I had some.
Everyone should have sex with Mike at least once.
Everyone.
Does Mike have any agency in this?
*general noises & vibes of concern for the dynamics of this web of people*
but hey its just a theory, a decision theory! Thanks for reading.
Now I kinda wanna see a Five Nights at Glasso’s.
Amber is The Decider. You’re either for her or against her.
Mission Accomplished.
Amber should know better than to have two superhero identities at once.
I don’t think The Decider is a superhero per se….
Accept the friendship. Don’t Dan everything up again after a really positive moment of growth (know it or not).
Heh. Growth.
“The Decider” was a name Amber brainstormed before she came up with “Amazi-Girl”
The Decider is immune to
criticism…uh, having decisions made for her?Doesn’t have quite the same ring to it, no wonder she scrapped that one.
Quibbling? Flip-Flopping? Perhaps Cavilling?
The Decider is immune to flip-flopping!
(Does the 2004 election cycle come to mind for anyone else?)
“Can you really?” Yikes, Danny. That seems uncalled for.
He just released all his salt that he’s been holding in for 18 years. Boy’s got more balls than it previously seemed like. I like him.
I’m glad to see hes starting to become a man
Ball are known for their salty contents after all.
I’m speechless.
Never let the world change you, May.
I’m in the middle of class, man! Don’t give me away!
(wheezes)
Sarcasm isn’t maturity. It’s adolescent at best.
It is uncalled for, but I think he’s directing that more at Amber than Ethan. After all, they broke up because Danny talked to someone that she didn’t approve of. If she texted Ethan that her now ex is ‘persona non grata’…well it sort of sounds like Danny’s basically like Sal to her. And just like with Danny, she might not be happy with Ethan for continuing to talk to Danny. Which is where his comment comes in. Though Ethan seems like the type of guy to put his foot down. In this situation at least.
It’s real easy. Danny gets Ethan on mondays and wedsdays, Amber on tuesdays and thursdays and they alternate weekends.
But what about Fridays?
Fridays are for Ethan, cause he deserves it.
Holidays?
They have to share on holidays. No double birthdays either.
Speaking of which, math geek moment: Do we know who in the cast share the same birthday?
(Statistically it is almost certain some of them do.)
I’m guessing probably Sal and Walky.
Touché
Trying to come up with a joke here. Hold on a sec.
[Insert Mildly Offensive to ‘Geek Culture’ Joke Here]
That’s have to do for now.
I’m mildly offended.
I’m offended that you’re only mildly offended. It’s GEEK CULTURE after all.
Sorry :/
5-2-2-5 schedules tend to be too many transitions for children Ethan’s age, what you probably want is a week-on/week-off arrangment.
Also it completely forget’s Mike.
Come on, Ethan, your decisions do NOT need to be made by someone as unstable as Amber. Danny finally decided to stop pussyfooting around her; you need to do the same.
Ethan learned to stand up to Amber a good while ago.
…I mean, he was taking a stand for a pretty awful thing, but taking a stand nonetheless.
Right now all i want is for Ethan and Danny to talk through the awfulness. Platonic Netflix and chill after kids fine too… Danny needs something light to help him come down from awful he’s feeling.
Besides all the best fictional relationships are the slow burning type.
*is not kids grah phone..
*attempts to physically move the camera back to Carla*
No for real, it’ll be nice to see more Danny and Ethan interactions, and maybe move just a bit closer to getting Amber some help, but there’s not the same joy to it.
With Carla there’s a lot more possibility of a reasonably happy ending.
My honest theory is that Carla’s revenge is that she doesn’t actually have a plan to seek revenge, so she’s going to torture her by making her stew and freak out over the non-revenge that isn’t coming, hopefully leading to the worthless sack of skin doing something that gets her kicked out of school.
That would be spectacular delicious irony from Willis.
The commenters see the trampoline on the chalkboard, flip out wondering how it fits into the revenge schematic.
Later, in-comic, *Mary* sees the trampoline, flips out wondering how it fits into the revenge schematic.
She said it’d be swift.
I don’t think that’s her full plan,b ut that’s definitely PART of it. I really doubt she will get to fire a cannon at Mary, or fire Mary out of a cannon (Although I’m pretty sure I support this action either way). But tape-measuring her and then whistling the 1812 Overture is going to freak her out regardless.
Okay, I know this is sort of a joke. And I swear I want only the best for Amber. But every part of my brain is screaming for Ethan to walk away from her. Maybe, irrationally, because I really like Ethan. But I really don’t think he deserves or even necessarily can handle being caught in this inevitable fallout.
Bruce Wayne, back when he was hanging out with The Beatles…
Buckeye Batman hated rock and roll…*pffft*
*But I
It turns out every Big 10 school has a superhero. Ohio State has Buckeye Batman, Wisconsin has Wonder Badger, Michigan: Wolverine (he’s gone back to college for night classes).
Indiana is stuck with Amazi-Girl. Poor Indiana.
Still better than Drumpf.
YAAAS, *Pushes two together* NOW KISS
I forgot about this part of the storyline. Wonder if Ethan’s about to become a rebound?
Oof, that’s right. Not only are those implications of Amber finding out a danger, but there’s the whole aspect of how this whole relationship-musical-chairs would be for Danny.
No, I want this to be real.
A rebound can be very real – but this is already part of Dina’s arc, so I really doubt it’ll be repeated as a story element here.
Also, of course, Becky was rebounding off a relationship that never actually happened, nor could happen, and had had several days to process this fact. And Dina wasn’t Joyce’s best friend and ex.
Even without going meta, Danny/Ethan isn’t the same sitch as Dina/Becky. Right now, Danny/Ethan could not be better designed to crash and burn if they were crash test dummies made out of kindling and gasoline.
Sorry just had to : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgnPxA2mhBY
Yeah because I bet Amber was the one that made you squirm back into being in the closet just because you couldn’t eat chicken tenders from Chick-fil-A.
Amber was super supportive to Ethan when he came out in high school! She mentioned that they’d spent the summer dealing with his parents and his even-worse grandparents, iirc — she was a big ally even though he’d just broken her heart. She was not a fan of him re-closeting, but didn’t out him. Amber has many faults, but she’s been very good to Ethan, and his glass closet was his own mistake, not hers.
It kind of gives me hope for Amber that even in her most rage-filled moments, she still didn’t out Ethan. Longstanding, platonic love trumps anger. Yay Amber.
She actually did. When she went all table flipping rage at Joyce. She outed Ethan to Sarah, who had already figured it out on her own, and anyone who happened to overhear her screaming about it.
Well shit
I mean, that was still, largely, about defending Ethan, because if he told Joyce that he was gay and they were still dating, obviously it must be because she’s trying to guilt him into degaying himself. Sarah herself even said that she had a “tiny point” for being angry at Joyce, because Joyce was, y’know, doing something completely awful in her ignorance. Didn’t give her the right to go all screaming bloodrage at her and Ethan, mind, which Amber eventually realizes and later on accepted that Ethan had to make his own choices, even if she hated them.
Considering no one reacted to the table flip, the screaming, and then the crying girl running out of campus, I can’t imagine anybody that overheard it mattered enough to the series for it to count as any kind of significant moment, or that it was meant to be indicative that Amber wasn’t absolutely a pillar of support for Ethan during his coming out.
Leorale: I’m pretty sure they were being sarcastic. ^_^;
Augh, Poe’s Law strikes again.
Given how… understanding Ethans parents seem to be, and how… well Amber respond to parental dickheads, I kinda wonder how that all went down. Did Ethan has to stop Amaziegirl from beating up his parents?
Or has Amaziegirl gotten much worse from recent events?
I just realized the pun in Chick-fil-A.
honestly it hasn’t been long since i figured it out. glad i wasn’t alone.
But my main language isn’t English I have an excuuuuse 😀
amber must be the source of all evil
Danny’s working an angry twitch. We all better duck.
So um. Ethan’s at least vaguely aware Amazi-Girl is in fact an “other self”, doing the tag trawl, but I doubt he knows the full extent to which Things Have Gone Bad since it seems to have been intensifying in the last few weeks and she wasn’t present for them.
But that means if Danny talks here, he might be able to put the pieces together and realize, “Oh SHIT, Amber’s in some real deep trouble.” COME ON SOUL-SEARCHING AMBER FRIENDS TALK TALK FOR THE LOVE OF MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE PLEASE PLEASE TALK.
‘Talk’? What is this thing you speak of? Sounds positively anti-drama. We can’t have that around here, we’re not allowed to have nice things. You know what happened the last time we had nice things?
Oh wait, so we’re saying she’s dissociative now? I was thinking of it as role-playing gone terribly wrong, with added past trauma and social anxiety.
I’ve seen ‘DID’ going about the comment section for a bit now. They’re (the commenters) not here yet, or just haven’t commented yet.
She’s been trying to disassociate for a while, and I worry she may actually accomplish it. Up until this last one, I said she was more compartmentalizing than dissociating.
The differences is whether each persona retains full memory of the other’s actions.
The last sentence is where people disagree. To my mind, memory sharing is not an indicator it is not DID (but then I knew someone who shared memories between some personas but had other who were out of the loop).
Though, if the decisive word is “full memory” as in knows everything the other persona does, thinks or feels, I don’t know how we can tell (in comic or in the real world). Even normal PTSD does strange things to what can be voluntarily remembered.
oh wow. it’s really serious if Amber’s telling her friends not to talk to her ex.
Might still be Amazi-Girl. And remember, Danny is now a Known Associate of Sal, former Ethan-threatener.
True, Amber/AG could be kind of speaking for Ethan here, whether or not she realizes it.
I hadn’t thought about that!
wow i didnt even realize that.. so in a sense, she wants to keep ethan safe?
It boggles my mind thst people do this. Have a friend who divorced a little while ago, and when a group of us met up he declared that if anyone wanted to, they could still keep in touch with her. Meanwhile I’d met up with her the day before and i knew the other couple in the group were seeing her the next day. Caught up with them afterwards and we all agreed it was an odd thing to say, but maybe it’s more common than I realised?
I think telling your friends they can’t see your ex is a crappy thing to do, but there are times where recently broken up couples do try to make their friends choose between each other. If that’s the case, I think it’s reasonable to make it clear to your friends that you’re not going to make them “choose”. With that said, it depends how you frame it. There’s a difference between saying “I won’t make you choose between me and my ex, that would be a crappy thing to do”, and saying “I give you permission to see my ex.” No one gets to decide who their friends can or can’t be friends with.
And that’s what’s awful and over controlling about what Amber/ Amazigirl’s doing here. She’s not respecting Ethan’s autonomy and right to be friends with people he likes. Heck, she did the same thing to Danny with Sal.
There are always relationships that go down in flames in a way that makes people take sides. But someone explicitly stating “you are still free to talk to my ex” is rather wired, because… You are free to do so anyway. You do not need his permission or even agreement.
It might be interesting to ask what he was actually trying to say.
When there are trust-issues, people may want to influence who you are talking to – like amber’s mother probably wouldn’t trust a friend of Blaine – but she would probably tell you in a different way.
Trying to control who of your friends still is friends with your ex for any other reason is involving people where they don’t belong. At best.
Danny didn’t decide, he was pointed in the right direction and he went there. I mean I don’t think it was a decision to stand up to her like you make it sound, it was more a caring type of decision: trying to let her know that she is in big trouble.
Also, Ethan… I want to be on your side, but be real. Your recent decision-making track record has been kinda spotty.
Okay Danny is being a bit of a douche but that’s to be expected after what happened and he’s also being the funniest has ever been right now.
IKR? It’s like the more disillusioned and depressed he gets, the more likeable he becomes. Probably not good for his character, but good for the audience.
HOLY SHIT ! He’s becoming the new Mike.
OMG, HE IS
So the only question left would be whether Mike would welcome or be weirded out by this new addition to his Snarky Greek Chorus.
Obviously Mike will take him on as an apprentice, until Danny invariable tries to destroy Mike and take an apprentice of his own.
It would be kinda hilarious if in the next strip Mike tried to pick on Danny, and just got the shit kicked out of him.
I actually just made myself a little sad, because now I want to draw Danny and Mike as a pair of Sith and I have nowhere near the skill for that.
Paging Yotomoe
PAGING YOTOMOE x2
I hope that Danny goes full anti villain leading to an epic battle with Sal. Where Sal demands to know why Danny turned away from the light, leading Danny to say it was because no one appreciated him. “not you, nor Amber or…my parents!”
Sal says she knows how he feels, ultimately leading to cool down hugs and the required “I was a good guy who turned evil, but know I’m turning good again at the last minute” heroic sacrifice.
And then they make out.
Didn’t he become a disillusioned and depressed alcoholic in another universe?
Dumbing of Age: Big on Drama, not on Rom-Com.
I’m betting the new character in the dumblr is an IU upperclassman.
It passed serious a long time ago I think, Altalemur.
I don’t think that Ethan can make any sort of move on Danny right now, and I don’t think Danny would be able to return it in kind if he did.
Amber will kill them both – maybe literally.
Ethan buddy the comments section loves you man but you GOTTA stand up to your caped crusading bestie. Otherwise she’s gonna go coocoo for someone’s goddamn Cocoa Puffs.
But they’re great?
Maybe they will kiss. hahahaha
So you two have that in common, then.
I mean, at least if Danny pushes Ethan away, he knows there’s still someone there for Amber. If she finds out Ethan is still, uh, “Grata” with Danny, she might push him away, too.
Aaand now I’m Imagineering ng Puppy Ethan with Danny saying “no goaway, I never loved you!”
Phrase meaning Person of No Status, or doesn’t exist. Since ‘Amber’ texted that, kinda carries the implication that Danny is dead to her. Strong feelings there, no doubt.
Oh, and: “Shoo! Go Away!” *throws Transformer*
“Go! Go be with your own ki- wait, no, that was Joyce’s line. Go! Go be with your Amber!”
Lmao Amber’s gonna start threatening the guy she saved from her dad’s physical violence with more physical violence and then follow that up by beating up her gay best friend hahaha what a dumbass
I see Amber’s still doing her Blaine impression. I can’t be the only person who felt sick when she said what she said when she broke up with Danny. It was almost exactly the same way Blaine talked about Amber’s mom.
She seriously needs to realize how she’s acting.
The thing is, Amber knows how she is acting, she just A) cannot face it without having a complete, critical mental breakdown as a result, and B) her rationalization for the time that she is spending acting like that is that she is “fucked up” and that those actions are an “inevitable” result of her long-term trauma. She puts more energy into controlling the world around her such that nobody she deems valuable or unworthy of malice is ever exposed to this side of her that she considers an unavoidable consequence of her being, than she does finding a way to change in such a way that said consequence is eliminated, because she does not honestly believe the latter is actually possible for her.
Oh, yikes. Amber telling her loved ones who they can or can’t hang out with – I’m guessing without even giving Ethan a valid reason – is, well…… I mean, she’s BEEN throwing up all manner of red flags for a while now, but at this point she’s shot past all the flags and is squarely in the danger zone. Amber needs help, yes, but at this point people who love her might need to separate themselves for their own emotional (and possibly physical) well-being. She’s flat-out abusive. It’s not about “tendencies” anymore; she’s past that.
I will say that this is a pretty strikingly en-pointe portrayal of emotionally abusive, controlling friends and loved ones. Most of the time they’re not across-the-board Evil Rotten Villains; they have appealing or even lovable qualities to them that makes it really, really hard to walk away from them no matter how they treat you. Even when you know you should.
…………THAT ASIDE! eeeeeeeeeeeee danny and ethan i love these two <3
Don’t make a joke about having already been on the highway, don’t make a joke about having already been on the highway, don’t make a joke about having already been on the highway…
eeeeeeeeeee ikr <3
This is why abusers so rarely change, sadly. The people who have gotten to know them best end up being forced to choose between ‘helping’ or continuing to be abused. They disengage, the abuser is faced with self-seeking or denial, they choose the latter, and continue the cycle with new people. 🙁
Damn. He looks so … defeated, I feel bad for Danny. Hopefully this ‘breakup’ doesn’t last too long.
He looks angry to me. And has every right to be. A new emotion for Danny, I imagine.
Oh get over yourself
This is going to lead to the question as to why Danny is persona non grata and then Ethan is going to have to make a decision to turn a blind eye to Amber’s self destructive behavior or confront her. If she cuts Ethan off too then she’ll be alone and in a darker place than before.
I’m really not sure if Danny will honestly open up about this
He still cares about Amber. And now that the worst has happened what does he have to lose by telling Ethan?
Or Ethan could ask Amber what the problem is, learn Sal’s identity, and then allow Danny to understand what her problem with Sal is. And then with full knowledge he can evaluate the situation for himself.
I can’t be the only one who thinks Amber is a massive waste of time. Give me more Sal. Or Joyce. There’s a story arch.
There are people to think about any and every possible thing. Hope this answers your question.
I personally think this plot just got really interesting. I didn’t care about these two before this shitstorm. But at the same time I’ve been dying inside for but seeing Joyce.
I want a lot more Sal too. Basically anything that’s not that ruth-carla-mary shit, it’s really unbearable when there isn’t a single character I even remotely like in the subplot.
*not seeing Joyce, dammit
I’m not as into the Amber storyline as others either, but like all the other main characters, her struggles are relevant and decently written. Joyce and her family dynamics are my jam too though. Can’t wait to get back to that. 🙂
I think Sal is a massive waste of time
joyce and sal are my least favourite characters (except the obvious evil ones) so no thx (:
That’s pretty normal. Everyone has their favourites and their dislikes.
I’m pretty invested in all the characters, the only one I remotely dislike is Ruth whenever she’s not trying to deal with her depression and alcoholism. That’s pretty rare for any work of fiction.
Ouch, poor, poor Danny, and poor poor Ethan and poor, poor, Amber.
I’m glad Amber texted Ethan at least – I was afraid she was going to isolate herself completely.
Translation of Ethan’s dialogue in panel 5: “We can still hang out, as long as Amber doesn’t find out.”
Ouch. Danny REALLY doesn’t need more secrets.
Ethan, just hug him already.
YOU ARE SO RIGHT
It is not that unusual for a girl to expect her best friend not to stay friends with her ex.
What matters is how she responds if he decides otherwise.
I do note that she did not forcefully out Ethan when he was trying to hide who he was. So maybe there’s some hope here. Ethan’s been her friend longer.
I honestly never saw Ethan as letting Amber make decisions for him so much. Yeah, she decided to break up with him when he told her he was gay, but that’s just normal.
And, seeing as Amber is not going to go truly insane and kill people or anything, the only way I can see this working is if everyone stands up to her.
And since people have said that Willis is against therapy, that’s not going to be it. It’s gonna be people standing up to her, and her getting into trouble where she needs friends again.
Yeah, back when I was that age, it was expected that when a relationship ended badly, people would cut ties with one person or the other. Is that mature? Hell no. Is that abusive? Also hell no.
I learned that lesson the hard way when I broke off my first serious relationship, and my ‘close friend’ count went from 20+ to 3 nearly overnight.
Against therapy? In general, or as a plot device?
As a plot device, sorry. I’m sure he’s fine with it in real life. But he thinks it makes for bad stories.
Someone pointed to Questionable Content to say otherwise, but I note there’s been a distinct lack of it lately.
…No, it’s abusive, just normalized. “Lots of people do the thing” does not actually change the characteristics of the thing.
Shoulda been a response to shiro, whoops.
Demanding that someone cut ties with someone is an abusive action. Doing so as a matter of course because “they upset my friend” is not. We don’t actually know which is (Danny expected) going on here, and I’m not going to pass judgement until we do.
Kind of frustrated at the way people are so eager to call a mentally ill abuse survivor abusive herself because what…she yelled at her boyfriend while she was dissociating? Not a good thing for her to do. I’d even agree that that specific action was abusive. But abuse is a cycle, a pattern, not an isolated event and especially not one she was immediately horrified and contrite over. The breakup? I expected people to express concern over that, given that she’s clearly getting worse and worse, to the point of paranoia. Instead in the comments it’s mostly judgement and people calling her a terrible person.
Maybe I’m projecting. I’m an abuse survivor with dissociative events myself. But it’s still frustrating.
…Like I said, normalized. Demanding someone else cut ties because a relationship is over (Which is what’s likely happening here) is generally a retributive action. But, let’s take this at its best – this is purely because Theoretical Construct!Danny troubles Amber and Amazi-girl, whether or not through any fault of Danny’s, because that’s not immediately relevant. Amber telling Ethan that TC!Danny isn’t welcome is fine. It means don’t invite TC!Danny if you want to invite me, or if it’s about me, and don’t expect to have hijm at any hangouts, etc. That’s good communication to avoid a fight. I’ll go a step further here – “don’t talk to me about TC!Danny” is fine too. All of this is ultimately personalized – it’s about what you’re willing to put up with, and it’s centered on interactions with you.
An expectation that Ethan stop speaking to TC!Danny, *period*, however, is still wrong. Even in its most plausibly permissible, you’re still controlling someone else’s actions without your mental health as an actual stake. And no, it isn’t really much less terrible to place this as an unspoken expectation over which you will passively aggress, rather than loud demands that someone stop.
I don’t know which Amber expects here, but the narrative strongly suggests ‘don’t talk to Danny’ – it is, after all, how ETHAN is acting as well. But whether or not Amber or Amazigirl is choosing to (Either passively or actively) aggressively prevent Ethan and Danny talk, or not, has no bearing on whether it’s an okay thing to do. She may be acting in an okay way, because it *IS* true that she may simply mean “Don’t expect us to hang out together”, but even at the passive aggressive level… “Don’t talk to your friend just because we’re no longer dating” isn’t bloody okay.
Also, lol. People treat Amber in the most incredibly light manner they can here. So, you know, pull the other one. I hadn’t even been talking about her in this context.
Like, for real guys attempting to isolate someone is one of the most textbook signs of abuse.
Again, we have absolutely no current information that she’s trying to isolate anyone from anything. We have one line that amounts to “Amber says she hates you now” and a bunch of Danny’s assumptions. You are continuing to completely misinterpret my comments about teenage relationships–it wasn’t “you better stop hanging out with my ex,” it was “I hate your ex now because they broke your heart.” That’s my personal experience. And frankly I’m starting to feel like you’re putting words in my mouth.
“We have no current information she’s trying to isolate anyone.”
Well. We kind of have Ethan concurring with Danny that this is the intent, which true, might be mistaken, but it’s certainly not NOTHING.
And like, if this is ‘putting words in your mouth’, well, talk better. This is the first you actually, really clarified. In the context of the conversation, it says… well, not what you wanted at all, tbh.
We have Ethan reacting to Danny’s assumptions by saying he’s his own damn person. That is a far reach if you must go that route.
Turns out I don’t talk that good when people are jumping to conclude that people with my particular cocktail of mental illness bullshit are abusive. Who’d’a thunk.
Like…seriously, I’m rereading and I see nothing that conclusively says “Amber told me I can’t talk to you anymore.” Here’s how I’m reading it:
Ethan: Amber just texted me she hates you now.
Danny: [assumption that this means Ethan will cut ties with him]
Ethan: What? Are we not friends anymore, or?
Danny: [further assumption that friends will now be divided and Amber will get Ethan]
Ethan: Dude, I’m not an extension of her, I just regard her opinions and advice highly most of the time.
I agree that something being common doesn’t make it not abuse, but, in a society where abuse is vilified, it points that direction.
A better argument might be to sit down and define abuse. I define an abusive action as something done to another person and designed to hurt them, or with reckless disregard to how much it hurts them.
Hence, merely expecting your friend not to be friends with your ex is not abuse on its own. If, when that person chooses otherwise, you react in an abusive faction, then it becomes abuse. That’s when it becomes controlling.
Heck, Amber could just stop being friends with Ethan, and that wouldn’t be abuse. If she yells like at Danny, that’s borderline abuse. If she belittles him, calls him stupid or worthless, and ultimately tries to make him feel bad, that’s definite abuse territory. And, obviously, if she react with physical violence, that’s flat out physical abuse.
I currently think that the reason her reaction was so bad was because Sal was there, triggering her into a panic, where she called on her “Amazi-girl” persona to choose “fight” inteaqd of “flight” or “freeze.” As long as Sal’s not there, her reaction will be calmer, I think.
So I actually hope she’ll just get into an argument with him, and he’ll stand up for Danny, and maybe she’ll figure some things out. Though her dropping Ethan as a friend is a possibility, too–the one I said where she’ll drop him, have something bad happen, and need her friends more than ever.
“In a society where abuse is villified” assumes a conclusion that isn’t merited. Many abusive behaviors are strenuously defended or otherwise normalized.
And like, you’re kind of ignoring your own definition, which is incredibly permissive on its own.
“or with reckless disregard to how much it hurts them.”
Expecting ties to be cut just because they’re your ex puts exactly zero concern on how much your friend values that friendship. It can end up non-harmful regardless (I really doubt Mike would be fucked at not talking to Danny), but that’s a matter of fortune. “Reckless Disregard” is assumed in the action itself.
You’re right that she could stop being friends – friendship is a two-way street. But making that action contingent on him not communicating with her ex is, guess what, still being done to control him. And it actually doesn’t matter whether she yells at him, or whether she simply passively aggressively makes his life a living hell for doing it.
“Its not unusual for a girl…”
at their age, yes. They still don’t know how rare friends are and that your relationship decisions are your own to make.
I wonder what she actually texted. Did she write to Ethan that she broke up with Danny and she never want’s to see him again, or did she actually say he’s “persona non grata” and good riddance?
Now wouldn’t be the best time but considering the chemistry these two have, if they do hook up, it’s just another thing that Amber will hold against both of them.
They should wait. And hook up later.
I think it would be best too since Danny’s emotionally compromised right now and still unclear on how he feels.
The fact that your icon is red eyed Joyce just makes me think your statement is a demand from her and I love it.
I completely forgot about this dynamic.
Keeper of the Ethan.
I’m not sure that Amber told Ethan to stay from Danny. I took PNG as simply referring to the breakup. PNG to Amber, not PNG to Amber and Ethan.
Exactly. Unwanted and no status, and particularly no boyfriend status. This does not translate into instructions to stay away from Danny. The expectation is Danny projecting.
Amber is poison. Let’s just acknowledge here that “isolate the target of your abuse from his or her support network” is like Step 1 of How To Be An Abuser.
Yup.
Danny’s sole visible eyebrow in the last panel is pretty good. Just this look of pure pessimistic skepticism.
It strikes me that Amber has been wearing Ethan down a lot longer than she has Danny. Not intentionally, nor consciously, but we’ve seen that there are things that Amber just puts her foot down on and expects you to go along with.
So all those battered spouse moments that Danny had with Amber? Multiply that by a factor of ten, here.
And that’s about to be tested. Amber expects him to cut ties.
Well, it was nice knowing Amber then. She can go deal with her issues on her own until she realizes she needs help. I’m sure Ethan and Danny will wait for her.
Or not. It’s a coin toss.
Assuming that Amber really expects that. Which is possible, but hasn’t been seen.
Amber clearly didn’t tell Ethan the whole story. Because this would look a lot different if she had said “I broke up with Danny because he thinks I need to take a break from vigilante justice because he thinks it’s “dangerous” and he’s “worried about me.” I also may have implied I want to die.”
Amber thinks Ethan will just not listen to Danny because she told him not to.
People comparing notes on Amber is bad for her. Well, actually it’s good for her, but it causes a lot of shit to unravel very fast.
I don’t understand this thought process. Of course Amber’s going to tell her side, but it’s going to be something more like “I found out Danny’s bffs with convenience store girl and is siding with her over me.” Because that’s her grievance here. Which is normal human nature.
I mean don’t get me wrong, girl needs help and has for a long time, but I think the comments are being needlessly grim.
She’s abusive, she’s toxic, she’s violent, she’s unwilling to seek help, and she’s trying to isolate Danny from his friends. I don’t really see a whole lot of difference between her and Toedad, except for the fig leaf of religiosity, it’s just that people are willing to cut her slack.
Because pulling a gun on people and kidnapping your daughter is exactly the same thing as yelling at boyfriend because you’re having a mental breakdown.
Because trying not to be abusive and channeling all of your anger into trying to fight criminals is the same thing as intentionally abusing someone.
Because telling a loved one they aren’t worthless and freaking out that they accidentally said they were is the same thing as telling a loved one they are worthless and seeing no problem with it.
Amber is a good person being held down by a mental illness. Like most people with a mental illness, she doesn’t really know she needs help. And you’ll notice no one has tried to get her that help. She had an abusive father who broke her mind.
And, yet, until very recently, she’s been doing well. Even her crime fighting was actually legal, believe it or not. People don’t seem to realize you can fight back against criminals if they don’t back down. You can even fight to defend public property.
Amber is a good person with a mental illness that is causing her to do bad things. Russ is just a bad person, doing much worse things. They are not the same. And I am so tired of this desire to vilify her for the things causes by her illness.
Even you realize she NEEDS HELP. She’s not remotely like ToeDad, who NEEDS PUNISHMENT, hence why he’s in jail.
Bluntly, and in as few words as possible – Toedad ‘just’ needs help too. There is little to nothing there that is totally impossible to have formed in someone else with the same upbringing. Additionally, punishment is aggressively useless. I don’t know that he can be helped, and I sure as fuck don’t want to risk my life to try, but society as a whole would be better if he could be, and was, helped, and if folks in a similar position could be, and was.
It being hard (and it very much is) or stressful (Almost definitely is) isn’t the same thing as not being preferable.
Come on boys.
“There you see him, sitting there across the way
He may have a lot to say
But there’s something about him
And you don’t know why
But you’re dying to try
You wanna kiss the kiss the boy!”
Sing with me now.
SHA-LALALALALALA
Jokes aside, Ethan’s comment is making it sound like Amber has been going down her Dad’s evil path for a long time now.
that slipshine ad just gets more and more painful with every new comic.
Damn you, Willis!
I really does, haha
it*
Oh god!! I completely forgot about this ship that I previously rooted for!! Yay!!
Okay, so… Amber is a bad person, mmkay.
“Sure, IN THEORY.
Communism works, IN THEORY…”
What? Can you think of a better way to supress the personal freedoms of a nation and indoctrinate their children into believing they have more freedom than any other people on the planet?
Yes. Since you ask.
Oh, please let Ethan reassure Danny that he made a good decision trying to help Amber. Please oh please.
Poor things. Danny’s so justifiably bitter.
I just wish he wasn’t taking it out on the people who actually care about his feelings.
I wanted to say something intellectual or at the very least rational, but all I could think of was “MAKE OUT DAMMIT, WIPE THAT BITTER FROWN OFF HIS FACE”
Hmmm, but we have seen Ethan make his own decisions in general before. I mean, he did tell Joyce he was gay because of her but I’m struggling to think of other examples? Maybe it’s time to mine the Ethan tag.
Honestly I think it’s more the issue that while Ethan can voice his concerns he’s not the type to go ‘Okay that’s fucking it. I’ve tried but I can’t get through to you’ And tell Amber’s mother what’s going down. Y’know like Mike might if he was in any way a good person. Or cared about anyone other than himself.
Granted I’m guessing it’s perhaps like that time from shortpacked, where her mother said (in a flashback to when Amber and Ethan first met) in order to make up for how terrible Amber’s father is she was a bit too lenient in the other direction as a way to compensate. Perhaps Ethan almost filled that role? Partly because he saw up front centre about her dad plus because of the support she gave him in senior high school? And Danny then too? Because he was so starstruck and amazed. (In addition to Danny being a doormat in general thanks to parents).
But more seriously how much does Amber’s mother know about her daughter? Did she ever find out about Blaine suddenly appearing? I mean all we’ve gotten is her seduced by Joe’s dad which made her late to meet her daughter and that’s kind of it.
Right, Ethan was this combination of best friend and carer for her through most of their youth, so it makes sense that he takes her into account by reflex now. He’s also just…kind of a passive person in general. But he has personhood and agency outside of her, demonstrably.
I’m pretty sure Amber is afraid to involve her mother in anything to do with her Blainy side, but hopefully Ethan at least knows how to contact her if needed.
lil bit too much backbone danny, dont be mean to ethan! he’s got you!
Theoretically anything is possible!
So… Ethan is a Batman fan… explains his difficulties seeing Amazigirl in a bad light…
I believe the proper term is ‘Now, kiss!’?
This makes me want to translate the comic in italian. I wonder what Willis thinks about possible translations?
This is the thing that I hoped for but also feared. Ethan is going to go to Amber, tell her that she’s screwed up and hurt a perfectly good guy in the process. Totally isolated and with this feeding into the “A monster I am” delusion that’s at the centre of Amber’s problems, Amazi-Girl goes off the rails in a fully Frank Miller-ite Bat-rampage.
Clearly, Danny x Ethan ship is what this world needs. All nice and happy and without any drama tags.
I think there might be SOME drama with Amber’s best friend dating her new ex especially with Amber’s emotional state right now.
Danny is being mean to ethan too?!! kill him off! such flawed people dont deserve to exist!!
on another note, do you even know how painful it is to read some of your comments while being a depressed person who hates themselves and then has a special person that for some stupid reason loves you and just wont leave and you just feel like youre ruining their life and hurting them and you know every time you tell them you want to die or youre a horrible person or start only responding with short answers you know it might hurt them but you cant really control it because its your feelings and they dont want you to lie and put up a charade, do they? youre wondering when theyll ger enough cause you know how horrible you are, you know how emotionally exhausting it must be to talk to you that much and you inform them that they can leave whenever they want and they just say they wont
Yeah, I feel you. I never thought I’d say this about a webcomic comment section, but it’s kind of emotionally draining seeing so much “god why doesn’t this traumatized abuse victim with a mental health disorder just fuck off.”
And, like, that last sequence with her totally killed off a lot of my connection to her character, so it’s not like I blame people for being alienated from her, she was being absolutely awful to Danny, but, still, it sucks. It sucks to see so much venom towards a character I deeply related to, and it sucks to understand why people are thinking it.
*appropriate gesture of support*
Of course it would have helped if Danny had actually listened to her explanation of who Sal is before launching into to his Sal inspired spiel on her coping mechanism, the one that attracted him to her in the first place. It would possibly have lead to a more nuanced discussion and some possible consideration of other points of view on both their parts.
I’m there with you.
Reading comments on this arc has been so emotionally draining it’s even started making me physically ill. The intense feelings of terror, shame, and self-hatred I feel about ever ‘becoming my abuser’ were hard to overcome, even with supportive messages from people explaining why that sort of thing is so harmful and how that line of thinking is crap. Now I get to read tons of comments saying that Amber is Blaine, like Blaine, or ‘turning into Blaine’ without any thought to the harm that does to mentally ill people and mentally ill survivors in particular. The cycle of abuse is a thing, but this has never been Amber being Blaine, this is Amber with mental illness and reactions that stem from it that end up harming other people- like, we’ve seen how Blaine operates and this is not it.
It’s terrifying to see so many people advocating to just cut her off and leave her isolated and give up on her completely. As someone who is a mess (not to the extent Amber is), it makes me panic even more about exposing myself to other people. I really, really get you.
Yeah, and this isn’t even a new thing either. I remember back in December where Amber had a freakout that lasted all of one panel, and I saw tons of “god shes such a piece of shit cut her off danny”
And, yeah, I have a massive complex over the idea of becoming my abuser, to the point where even though I recognize that anger is a perfectly rational emotion and everyone feels it, I either force myself to bottle it until I freak the fuck out, or just feel guilty about being angry about dumb shit. So I loved how Amber basically had all those same thoughts I did and had that same struggle, and the constant stream of “why is amber such an asshole” was hugely frustrating for me.
I’m really hoping that Amber’s actions last time were an intended low point for her character so she could start picking herself up, and not like “yep this abuse victim is definitely the total shitfucker she knew she was, cycle of abuse lol”
I’m holding on mostly because I can’t believe Willis is going to take the story in a direction that leaves Amber an unredeemed villain. Which is where it looks to be going right now, at least on the surface.
That rock bottom low point may just be a little lower than I was hoping it would be.
I could’ve done without the abuse victim having to learn not to be an abuser. It just feels, I dunno, like, really stereotypical? Like, oh of course, she’s an abuse victim and she didn’t come out of it a fucking zen monk like Sal and Ethan. Obviously the only worthwhile story for this character is her overcoming her inherent vileness as a person.
Not like we’re gonna see Billie fight off her Natural Bisexual Urges to cheat on Ruth all the time. Until now Amber’s story was all about how she was someone mentally ill who had bucketloads of trauma to deal with and deserved love and support, because despite all the bullshit heaped on her she was still a good person, and despite her best efforts to bury it as deeply as possible all that rage would break out, and at best this is just going to end with Amber realizing that she’s being awful after Sal punches her in the face and goes “we’re not so different y’all and I”.
I think I should take a break from this series, at least until we get a better idea of where Amber’s storyline is going, at any rate. It’s depressing to see that Amber’s story is now just the typical “abuse victim becomes an abuser” storyline, and where I am in my life right now it’s not really something I think I want to see in fiction.
I don’t think the story has so much taken this turn as the comment section has taken this turn. I think it’s still the abuse victim successfully manages to cope with her inherited tendency towards violence and abuse and manages to help a lot of people as she does so story. Doesn’t mean there aren’t ups and downs and the occasional misunderstandings with the supportive boyfriend.
oh dear. im really sorry for you two. it must be even worse for you to read these comments. i dont have an abuser, cause i havent been abused, so the comments that hit me must be fewer. im really scared of that i just am or will become an abuser, without having one you know. i guess its like almost the same but without the connection to a specific person and without having been abused. im really really scared that im actually a horrible person and that i abuse people or that i will abuse people (which doesnt get better ny the fsct that i hate myself and think im a horrible person) i love, and many comments on the strips related to amber are kinda confirming it in some sense.
i hope the comments section get better so you guys wont have to stop coming here or reading the comic. i dont really know how to show my support so just know that you have it
Yep. It’s seriously upsetting, especially since people here are generally so good. But apparently mentally ill people have to be 100% perfect and show no signs of it whatsoever, or else they’re terrible people who are just like their abuser.
Like, I could accept “Amber needs to get help and Danny needs to get away from her for his own emotional health til she’s got a better grip on reality,” because it demonstrably is affecting him. Because that’s not blaming her for it, just acknowledging that something’s gotta give. But nope, apparently she’s a bad person and just like her father. Okay.
i dont really see anything that says that amber has asked ethan to “dump” danny here. i see them speculating about it, because thats the most logical assumption, that they shouldnt be friends anymore and that maybe amber wouldnt wqnt them to. but he doesnt say that amber asked him not to talk to danny. she just texted that they had broken up?
Persona Non Grata is a term used to express that a person is essentially exiled from a social circle (when it’s not used to ban people from entering a country’s borders), but also as a warning that if anyone are observed in that person’s company, there will be consequences.
Amber calling Danny Persona Non Grata is basically her telling her friends that if they’re serious about their friendship, they’ll stay far away from Danny. It’s not a term used lightly.
but those are ethans words as far as we know
True. I might be taking it in a more literal sense than is intended in the comic.
My memory is faulty, has Ethan crossed paths with Sal outside flashbacks? It occurs to me he could be the one to untangle this situation in the right circumstances.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/tall/
Found it!
New slipshine upcoming?
Am I alone hoping that Danny and Ethan NOT get together, at all? People keep saying how cute they are, but… ennnhhh. I like them better as friends, and it feels ridiculously one-sided at the moment.
Yeah, I really don’t see the huge appeal in it. I get that Ethan’s nice and supportive, sure, but he’s been a pretty vanilla character so far and I don’t really think he’s interesting enough that, until now, he could contribute anything interesting to Danny’s character that Danny could do both with Amber and with Ethan as this beacon of strange new feelings he doesn’t get. Mind, I imagine a huge amount of my dislike for it stems from the nonstop deluge of “CAN DANNY DUMP/CHEAT ON HIS GIRLFRIEND AND FUCK THE ONE OTHER QUEER DUDE WHY ISNT HE BEING A REAL BISEXUAL YET”
I mean, I know a not-insignificant amount is coming from “omg two queer dudes they have to immediately fuck”, but that can’t be the only reason people want it.
I submit that “omg two [hot people] they have to immediately fuck” is, in fact, the default position of most fandom. Which I hate. So much.
I just think they’re cute together. Danny obviously likes him at least a little bit, and it sort of felt like Ethan liked him too. I don’t care about fucking, though. I just want them to be happy, and bond over comic books and stuff some more. Maybe in a romantic way, if they’re so inclined. But definitely not right now, because this would kill the Amber.
No, yeah, there’s plenty of legit reasons to like it, don’t get me wrong. I’m not into it but it’s not like every single person who is only likes it because they’re fetishizing Danny’s sexuality. Those folks I’m okay with being creeped out by, though, because I see way, way too much uncomfortable fetishization of bisexuality.
A long time ago, I expressed similar things.
My thoughts were that Ethan was complaining about being “defined by his being gay” (or something like that). I thought it would be more valuable for him to have a platonic friend to show that yes, you can be gay, but also continue to be the comic book geek, without one facet of your life overriding the other.
I want them to get together, but not now. They need to focuss on Amber right now.
HURRY UP AND FUCK, I WANT TO SEE THE AMAZISPLOSION!
I can absolutely see “Amber” (actually, basically, Blaine talking through her and/or AG) telling her friends who they are and aren’t allowed to talk to.
And that chills me.
Er, you pretty much already did. That’s EXACTLY what happened on the stairs right before Amber broke up with Danny.
Point. >.<
Sort of. Technically it’s true. But it was much more focused on Sal than on the typical abusive isolating, controlling kind of behavior.
Danny needs to stay away from Sal because Sal is a monster in her eyes, not because Danny isn’t allowed other friends.
Mind you, that’s still screwed up as hell, because it’s all tied up in Amber’s trauma’s and her (proto-)DID, but it’s a very different kind of screwed up. If she was right about Sal being a monster, then her reaction wouldn’t be seen as abusive at all. Imagine for example, Joyce’s reaction to seeing Ethan casually hanging out with Ryan.
But she just basically told Ethan that he shouldn’t hang out with Danny.
Both Ethan and Danny clearly interpret it that way.
Amber didn’t tell Ethan anything, they both just assumed that Amber won’t want Ethan to be friends with Danny anymore.
She said that Danny was unwelcome around her. That carries a pretty heavy implication with it.
I was really pulling for Jacob/Ethan. 🙂
Every day when I see the new strip, a legion of wannabe armchair psychologists emerge from the woodwork. It’s amusing.
And how does that make you feel? *steeples fingers and settles back into armchair*
“Could your feelings of inferiority to your siblings have to do with the fact that they are sofas and you are an armchair?”
“Also, is that an ashtray I see on your arm? Do you enjoy putting things in your mouth? And do you often think of your mother when you do?”
I think your problems are rooted in the criminal removal of your tag when you were very young.
Drama tag. Nope, still there.
Ironically, it’s Freud’s birthday.
Hey, some of us were partially educated for just it!
I am not clear on the distinction between wannabe armchair psychologists and actual armchair psychologists. Are there courses and degrees in ArmPsy? Certification authorities?
And who organizes the legions and appoints the officers?
It is probably hard for Danny to understand why Amber blew up at him, being in the dark about Sal (darn you dramatic irony!!!), but maybe he can explain to Ethan what Sal told him because she is right. Amber almost got killed. Twice. Maybe Ethan can reach her since she cared so deeply for him and she can get what her shit dad refused to do for her. Get her therapy and real help to start dealing with her flashbacks and fears, and maybe a better coping mechanism than a mask. She probably knows the risks involved, but maybe Ethan can nail in the message “If Amazi-girl dies, we lose you too and we don’t want that.”
Y’know, it just struck me how much the situation involving Amber is like what’s-her-name, Sarah’s ex-roomie. She’s in a bad place and everyone around her is either oblivious to her situation, ill-equipped to help, or, mostly, both. And just like in that situation, the best outcome is that someone reports the situation to competent authorities (assuming the competent authorities can identify Blaine as ill-fitting caretaker), even though that’s going to result in ridiculous amounts of unwarranted flak towards that someone.
You have a point there. The trouble may be that most of us do not really believe there is any authority figure in comic that is equipped to deal with Amber’s situation. Moving her off to any herefore never mentioned clinic or therapist would be bad story telling, like an Angel appearing to solve all problems.
And yes, Amber acts abusively towards people who are close to her. And she doesn’t take responsibility for it. Her shame attacks are not different from those most abusers. As long as she doesn’t take the responsibility and looks actively for a solution, her acts will become worse over time.
And so we, as readers, have to deal with not liking the actions of a character that used to be interesting, likeable and funny. And just like in real life, this is difficult to bear.
Amber is still interesting, likeable and funny. You’re letting your interpretation of events be dictated by the comment section.
You’re right, introducing new characters that fit the story is bad.
It would be bad if she were suddenly magically cured of all her issues, but therapy and clinics are hardly Angels or miracle workers.
On the other hand, in this case the unwarranted flack is almost entirely going to come from Amber herself. Most everybody who has any real interest in her either knows the full situation, or enough to believe it when they’re told. Joyce and Becky are the only likely ones to have a bad reaction, and even there, I think being told the whole story would be enough to get them on-side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Super_Ex-Girlfriend
Oh hell. I remember this crap from when I was a college freshman. Breakups and the requisite “taking of sides” that happened because of them. I officially have no patience for anyone who says I can’t be friends with anyone I want to, barring some very serious abuse signs.
OOTOH, formally stated or not, it tends to happen. Even without the abuse or any manipulation. Especially in the kind of college age tight groups of friends. When the breakup is at the point where it’s not comfortable for the two to hang out together, even in a group, one of them isn’t going to get invited to the group activities. Or the group itself is going to mostly split up.
Not so much “You can’t be friends with him” as “We can’t invite them both to the party or there’ll be a scene.” A good chunk of the manipulation, if it’s there, may just be to insure you’re not the one who gets cut off.
I, um, may be risking a scene this June, but dangit I don’t know that many people in the city and the escape room needs around 8, so I’m not gonna split my top choices into 2 groups of 4!
I’m pretty sure people can remain civil for an hour, the guestlist isn’t a surprise to anyone.
“Persona non grata” ooh, ooh, I know what means! And people said I’d never learn anything from video games.
Definitely feel where Ethan’s coming from. Had a few people I know/knew in high school break up, and one of them would always think I didn’t want anything to do with them any more. Almost always came down to me telling them, “Look, I still want to hang out because you were never an ass. Yeah, [so-and-so] was my friend first, but I also know they can be wrong sometimes.” Unlike Ethan, however, none of my friends dressed up in spandex/latex and a cape to go fight crime and ‘evildoers’. Except the one person. But he was a cosplayer and at most fought littering at conventions.
You know, some people are being too hard on Amber, but I have so much fiery hate for the idea that A: actions that people take while coping with a mental illness can’t also be abusive actions and B: actions that people take with sympathetic reasons can’t also be abusive. Both of those are both reasons people use to excuse and minimize abusive actions, and to guilt victims into staying in abusive situations and frankly its concerning to see them repeated so much here. Amber can be both a person who is doing abusive things that Danny needs to get away with AND a person who is doing her best to cope with mental illness and needs help AND that being true does not mean that mental illness OR abuse victims are doomed to be abusive.
Yes. This. We can call Amber’s behavior exactly what it is – abusive behavior – while also acknowledging that she’s trying her best to be a good person while coming from a messed-up background, and is in need of help.