Oh god, I got trapped on the fanficmaker site. I kept trying to click the back button and it would just reload the page… adding more “Barbie”s every time. The horror ._.
People I think we need to put aside our differences and scour every single chan and booru there is, it’s our duty as wholesome people to scan every bit of porn we can find.
They’d probably be like “Doesn’t do it for me, but for a species to have it I completely understand” for the majority and then be “What? What the-Why?!?!? Oh god why?!? What is wrong with these creatures?” For the niche weird stuff. And then they’d glass us.
I was going to suggest that slipping Mary some might chill her out, but it’s probably just as likely she’d hallucinate Jesus telling her to kill the president or something.
We’re about five-hundred pages too late for that. But yeah I never thought that her and Billie doing the fireman’s tango was against the rules. I just thought as long as they weren’t doing the dope it was all chill chill.
The Power Of Loveis a curious thing
Make a one man weep, make another man sing
Change a hawk to a little white dove
More than a feeling that’s the power of love
Tougher than diamonds, whips like cream
Stronger and harder than a bad girls dream
Make a bad one good, make a wrong one right
Power of love will keep you home at night
It dont need money, dont take fame
Dont need no credit card to ride this train
Its strong and its sudden and its cruel sometimes
But it might just save your life
Thats the power of love, thats the power of love
First time you feel it, it might make you sad
Next time you feel it, it might make you mad
But you’ll be glad, baby when you’ve found
Thats the power, makes the world go round
And it dont need money, dont take fame
Dont need no credit card to ride this train
Its strong and its sudden and its cruel sometimes
But it might just save your life
They say that all in love is fair
Yeah but you dont care
But you know what to do
When it gets hold of you
And with a little help from above
You feel the power of love
You feel the power of love, can you feel it?
It dont take money, dont take fame
Dont need no credit card to ride this train
Tougher than diamonds and stronger than steel
You wont feel it when until you feel
You feel the power, just feel the power of love
Thats the power and thats the power of love
You feel the power of love, you feel the power of love
You feel the power of love
It clouds your judgement and shows preferential treatment, which is unfair. Ruth is supposed to be impartial and there to help and support the students under her.
No, sometimes it isn’t. And manipulative people can be really good at playing head games to exploit people they have power over.
Rules against relationships with people you have authority over exist for good reasons.
Are there special cases where it isn’t like that? Yes. And they seem to be the kind we’ve mostly seen in DoA. They make more interesting stories, but that doesn’t mean they are common.
If you allow that sort of exception, every exploitative asshole will claim that exception applies to them.
You only need to read up on sexual harassment/assault in the military to see just why these rules exist, and why they’re generally not even close to sufficient to prevent abuse anyway.
People are always arguing about “that one exception” where it is alright and that therefore the rule should not exist. I don’t believe it. Haven’t come across a real case yet where it applied. It’s always just a “but suppose if…”
If you have have a formal relationship involving power (like teacher-student, psychologist-client, boss-employee, and, yes, RA-student on your floor) and you really are in love, then do something to end the formal, power-imbalanced relationship before you start having sex.
The rules, to my mind, are in reality not only about the abuse of power to convince someone to have sex, but also to avoid what Sal tried (peddling sex for advantages) which undermines the authority structures. I can see that anything undermining authority structures might be a good thing (if only people wouldn’t be disenchanted with organized society based on rules because of that only to fall for the even bigger assholes that pretend that if everyone followed them, their rules or their (interpretation of) god, everything would be hunky-dory).
It’s not one exception. The exception is the norm. The power imbalance actually being abusive is the exception that we create rules to try and deal with. I’ve literally never encountered a situation where both were adults and there was abuse.
If the system at this college worked the way it should (and the way it worked at my college), all they’d have to do is publicly declare their relationship. Yes, Billie might have to move out, so she’d be under a different R.A., but that’s it. And even that’s debatable–they might be able to live together–I knew R.A.s who did. And, even if not, she clearly could spend the night with her, just like every other boyfriend/girlfriend can here.
(Okay, my college actually had curfews, where you couldn’t have a guest past 12 except if they signed in, but I see no sign of that here. And no one actually enforced it.)
As long as it’s out in the open, favoritism really isn’t a possibility. People will know.
Yup, and it brings up consent concerns. Like, can the person who’s the charge actually say no in all instances? If it comes time to break up with the person with power over them or they don’t want sex when the person with power over them wants and they can’t afford to lose this job, be singled out in this class, be negatively impacted in their living space, it affects their ability to stand up for their own consent and puts pressure on them to smooth out any wrinkles in the relationship in a more martyry direction so as to protect the aspect of their lives where the other person has power.
And that is frequently abused by abusers who deliberately seek out people they have power over in order to better limit their options of escape or defying them.
Hell, even in this relationship, Billie has sharp and painful experience of what being on Ruth’s bad side looks like and while they are too much in NRE and Billie has too much of her self-regard wrapped up in being an awesome romantic partner to Ruth to really think about the endings of this, that will be a concern if Billie ever decides at some point that she needs to get out of this “sexy lesbian suicide pact” for her own good.
Hell, for a more direct example of how it can be completely fucked, you just need to look to Jason/Sal and all the awful shit Jason has pulled on Sal in order to “remain impartial”.
Wait, what “awful shit” has Jason pulled on Sal, again? The only thing I remember is him giving her a bad grade, and that was implied to be the grade she actually earned, and she was mainly angry with him for it because she’d assumed having sex with him would buy her preferential treatment.
Love is love, and favoritism is favoritism, and relationship issues having implications for the lives of everyone else in the dorm are relationship issues having implications for the lives of everyone else in the dorm.
Right up until the person you have power over wants to break up, and the other partner is a dick about it and holds their job or whatever over them.
Plus if one of them is in a position of power over the other there is likely to be an element of coercion.
Basically it’s fine as long as everyone is fully consenting; but as soon as one is not there is a strong potential for abuse. And that abuse has happened often enough (because humans are dicks) that now our culture doesn’t allow it.
Actually, because academics is one of the few professions where working with your spouse has been common for a long time, there’s usually a system for dealing with relationships across a power gap. You disclose the relationship formally, with the knowledge that it will now be verified and considered a fact of the case if you’re accused of something related, e.g. favoritism or sexual harassment.
I’m not sure why people in this thread seem to be unaware that employment law is designed to accommodate workplace relationships. Workplaces have been mixed-gender environments since the 1970s even outside of academics, trust me, if it’s not a straight-up felony there’s a system in place for dealing with it happening.
Yeah, but that would mean disclosing the relationship as soon as it becomes relevant – either when applying for the job, or as soon as the relationship begins if both of you are already working in the same workplace.
But Ruthie and Billie have certainly not informed anybody – in fact, they’ve been deliberately hiding the information – and it’s been a few weeks already since they hooked up, has it not? (maybe only a couple of weeks, I’m not certain on when they hooked up in the timeline…)
Yup. Ditto if she was to resign from her RA job for “personal reasons”.
But neither is in a head space to do that. Ruth seems to be relying on this job for some measure of financial independence and Billie is still very much of the frame of mind that it is her personal job to keep Ruth from killing herself and closeness is very key for her for that. Plus it’s a lot of paperwork and the school will want a reason that’s actually compelling for them to shuffle things around (and that might involve throwing Ruth or Sal under the bus to do so).
Well, she could officially move to another floor to make it legit and still basically live with Ruth, just not under her authority any more.
But yeah, they’re not going to do that because neither of them is thinking clearly. Because they’re drunken teens.
Because she’s nominally Billie’s roommate, so normally to request a move, she’d have to demonstrate cause, which usually means showing how the roommate situation is negatively impacting her well-being or is otherwise proving untenable, which means throwing Sal under the bus in terms of basically making a complaint about her to the college.
she still doesnt seem to give a shit about abusing students but shes used to getting away with that. being in/hiding a relationship is a new situation for her so she doesnt know how to deal with it, and shes gonna treat it more seriously
Indeed, which is why Mary not being scared of her is the game-changer. When everyone was a bit afraid of her and not willing to report downstairs about her methods, her methods produced an effect downstairs liked. If the report comes down that she has violated an ordinance surrounding “proper relationships” then that will trigger at least formally an investigation which could lead to Ruth’s other misdeeds coming to light and thus downstairs caring about all of it.
And there’s also the fact that schools and other American institutions frequently care a fuckton more about sex than they do violence.
You know, as much as Ruth likes to talk about doing terrible things to people’s femurs, this is a more-or-less real-world setting, so she would actually get in serious trouble if she deliberately injured her students. She’s managed to intimidate most of her students by talking big and taking down Billie at the start of the year (without physically harming her, note) but Mary’s smart enough to see she can’t back it up.
Because said girlfriend is one of the students under her care. It’s considered an abuse of position. Even if it’s consensual, there is the vulnerability of Ruth being accused of using her position to pressure Billie or giving Billie unfairly favourable treatment because she’s in a relationship with Ruth.
It’s basically professional ethics issue of the “Our staff must not only be clean but be seen to be clean” sort.
I…am not sure I’d call this good. The worst is yet to come. Those two are unhealthy and ill-advised as hell, but they’re also the only thing keeping each other going.
I dunno. This is an even unhealthier dynamic, what with the paranoid panic scouring for “clues” to get rid of and the “burn everything” mentality. I think Mary’s going to get her primary goal at least of causing people suffering.
You mean the happy bisexual funtimes, since both Billie and Ruth are bi.
I wonder. Ruth sleeping with one of her charges isn’t really a big deal beyond the rules broken, it’s why I don’t go “BOO THIS MAN” over Jason because he stringently refused to actually give Sal her undeserved grade and it ultimately had no consequence. I wouldn’t call them happy by any metric, since there’s so much wrong with their relationship even beyond Mary’s blackmail, but I wouldn’t consider the rules being broken as that big a deal in the same way I’d rather Becky be illegally hiding in the dorms rather than follow the law and get her ass kicked out onto the streets.
Personally, I find it awkward and uninformative. Saying “lesbian” relationship tells you something – that they’re both girls. “Bisexual” doesn’t, could be any combination.
Is it only a bisexual relationship if they’re both bi? Would you need to specify “bisexual/lesbian relationship” if one was lesbian and the other bi?
I get bisexual erasure, but this particular usage seems odd to me.
It erases our identity and informs the baseless stereotype that bisexuality involves switching between orientations by putting labels on the kind of relationships we enter. It’s harmful specifically because our relationship status is used to define what kind of queer we really are.
“Same gender/sex relationship” while lacking a spicy frisson, is more informative and does so without enforcing toxic labels.
Exactly. It says the important part, that this person whose sexual orientation isn’t exclusively homosexual is in a relationship with someone of the same gender, without casting the implication that being in that relationship means said person is gay, as if homosexuality was the only way not to be straight.
I just say “relationship”, but that’s me and we are a society obsessed with labeling.
Are they keeping each other going, though? Billie’s relatively low-grade generic “moved to a new place, things are changing, argh” angst has been replaced with having an abusive girlfriend, and Ruth’s behavior is… literally exactly the same as it was pre-Billie.
This. My guess is she’s hoping she might be able to clean it up and make it look good before reporting Mary and letting her pull the trigger. Doubt Billie is going to take that well though, especially since Ruth is in full-blown panic mode and more likely to frame it as more of the “we need to stop entirely” than a “hey, we need to fake like we’re in different rooms for a week or so”.
Becky’s away for a while, so Billie could move back to her room. (They’d just have to hide Becky’s clothes somewhere.) One good cleanup of Ruth’s room later, all physical evidence supporting Mary’s accusations is gone.
Even if everyone goes back to their previous arrangements, the board will brush Mary off as the girl who cried wolf.
Hell, she just has to add her own clothes. Thet have big closets and it’s not like they’re really going to check each article of clothing and interview Billie about her pwrsonal style while checking security tapes. Also Sal’s school uniforms wiuld probably raise way more questions
Those are easier to brush off as those will be assumed to belong to someone the student is shtuping, and that could actually help Becky out. Hmm, there was an anonymous student being over here a lot… and a lot of reports of you having a new partner… and all this red hair… yeah, you know what, I don’t think we need to go any further into this, sorry for intruding on your private affairs.
And, yes, I know that Ruth and Becky’s hair is not the same length or precisely the same color, but I don’t know how well you can tell that from isolated individual strands.
Nope, not even a little bit. Honestly, they’ll probably just ask a few questions and visit her dorm room and that’ll be it. She’s definitely going overboard with the paranoia. And on the isolated strands question… heh, I’m actually teaching a Forensics Science class at the moment so I can say, yes, but they wouldn’t bother.
Becky didn’t have that many clothes anyways, and may have brought all of them with her. If not, it would be most of her clothes; and I doubt they’re going to be going through her closet holding each item up to Billie to ensure it fits.
Billie moving back into her room while Becky’s gone is probably a really good idea, yeah.
Becky’s also about the same size as Sal, as we’ve seen. Unless it’s something that couldn’t reasonably be in Sal’s wardrobe (another Andersen top, a Himmel the Humming Hymnal t-shirt, stuff like that), ‘yeah, that’s mahn’ works.
Yeah, I’m prepared for this conflict to get super annoying when everyone utterly fails to see the blisteringly obvious solutions to the problem and instead elects to crash and burn in a storm of melodrama.
Well, I mean, it’s Ruth and Billie. Crashing and burning is kinda their default way of handling things. It tends to go with the complete lack of self-respect and depression.
Mary hasn’t put forth any evidence except her own word. I suppose that could trigger some kind of investigation, but mostly, Ruth is just scared, and scared people aren’t logical.
No, but depression and anxiety often walk hand-in-hand, even if both aren’t clinical. This is the stage of panicky “I need to sweep every spot of evidence of anything I ever did in my life away so the secret spy cameras that have obviously been examining every detail of my life and even know about the cavity that’s starting in my tooth can’t find any more evidence.” Followed by coming out of it after the crisis mode has passed and binging worse than before on the alcohol and becoming even more self-destructive because, “GAWD how could I have let myself be so stupid and spiral out of control like that again, now I have to redo the entire set-up to spiraling out of control.”
OH. OH MY GOD. You know what is gonna happen, you guys?
Ruth will do it. She will eliminate all evidence; Billie will go back to her room; everything will look like it’s fine–and then the pic that is still on Billie’s phone of Ruth, passed out, surrounded by empty booze bottles will be found.
Ok, so Billie will move back into her own room, Becky will be off campus, nowhere to be found, so when Mary decides to snitch, there will be no evidence, and no witnesses willing to corroborate. Mary gets humiliated, but it’s too little too late to satisfy Carla.
Because Billie informs Ruth that Becky is not currently here, moves her stuff back into her dorm room quickly, and Ruth then decides to lay all of unholy hell upon Mary at the meeting tonight. At this point, Mary snitches only to figure out she has been outplayed, the administration never takes anything she says seriously again, and the whole dorm goes right on hating Mary. Eventually Mary hits rock bottom and becomes a Buddhist in the ensuing personal crisis she has.
That would work for, like, three days. Then Becky moves back into the dorm. I’m pretty sure Mary has a smart phone, so evidence gathering wouldn’t be hard.
Moreover, I’m pretty sure publicly harassing a student by calling them out in front of the entire dorm isn’t okay as far as university policy goes. Disputes are usually supposed to be privately mediated. Plus, pulling the trigger like that would also screw over Carla, who, even if insulted, was still skating in the halls to deliberately antagonize another student.
This whole situation would be best resolved by Ruth just doing her job and actually trying to mediate.
The hate speech toward Carla might get Mary moved, though. Both for Carla’s sake and because obviously Mary is uncomfortable and that makes it easy to justify without pissing off your transphobic alumni as much
(Alumni knowing because Mary would totally go to the media with ‘I was kicked out of my room because I stood up to a perversion of God’s will’ or something)
It’s possible that might be what it comes to. In practice, though, reporting her would probably blow up on everyone. It even works better for Mary now, since Ruth’s failure to report her for her unkindness to Carla would be an extra two strikes against Ruth: One for failure to intervene over a disruptive behaviour, and another for failure to actually do her job -again-. It also has to be remembered that Carla would have to explain that she not only initiated but pursued the conflict, and when Mary explains that the reason she didn’t just report it to Ruth is because Ruth struck her when she previously complained…
Well, suffice to say, there is no situation here where Mary doesn’t come off looking seriously aggrieved, herself. She might end up getting moved, but Ruth would not only be fired but expelled for all of that, or at least put on academic probation.
Even without Billie, even without Becky, there isn’t really a scenario where reporting Mary ends well for anyone. The only real way this ends well is if people just grow the heck up and start treating each other with a little decency, regardless of whether they like each other.
“Because you’re an abusive, codependent, negligent alcoholic who is making both our lives worse by perpetuating this toxic sham of a relationship?”
“What? No? We just have to temporarily break up for the sake of dramatic tension until I feed Mary into a wood chipper or whatever. We’ll ALWAYS end up together in the end.”
“Oh good. Good thing I can fix your abusive behavior with the power of love! You just have to care for someone long enough and any problems in the relationship will magically resolve themselves! Woohoo!”
Well, either they’re in a relationship where they think they’re both going to kill themselves, or they aren’t. If the intent behind the relationship is “let’s both die” then it’s for the best they stay away from each other before they actively worsen their problems.
Although ultimately the nature of their relationship is irrelevant to what they do within that relationship. Them banging doesn’t really mean much in the face of the stated intent to kill themselves, the worsening of their alcoholism, and Ruth breaking the rules of the dorm she’s supposed to enforce.
My take is that the relationship, while it may lead to disaster in the end – and will without some drastic changes, is currently delaying disaster that probably would have already happened without it.
Obviously the best thing for both of them is to separate, stop drinking and get into therapy/treatment. Possibly to give the relationship another try when they’re both more functional.
But that’s not happening.
I think the current state is better than Ruth actively drinking herself to death, but it’s a stopgap measure.
I’m not even sure their alcoholism is worsening. We haven’t seen anything as bad as when Billie broke in to save Ruth since then.
I think, for Ruth at least, things have improved. She’s starting to inch out of that numbness and Billie’s forcing her to get up and move around, but as for them getting better? I really don’t think so. They’re still drinking and have resigned themselves to never getting better. Ruth’s in a position where she can get better and realize that there’s reasons to be alive, but that foundation is being built in a precarious environment and could easily crumble, the same way it did earlier when Billie drinking had Ruth decide that she no longer had any hope.
Remember, the relationship didn’t start because they wanted it to, it started because Billie thinks she’s inherently worthless and wants to die with Ruth, who thinks she just needs to hold out long enough for Billie to forget her so she can drink herself to death.
Is it bad I wouldn’t care all that much if they broke up? I don’t have anything against the relationship, but I’m pretty damn neutral towards it. I would be upset however if Becky and Dina broke up. I just want to see whats happening with Joyce driving.
“I can’t stop! The brakes aren’t working! I think the dinosaur stuffy Dina loaned you is stuck under the pedal!”
“Girls, what in the heck is going on up here?! *hits emergency brake, turns off ignition* Becky, I heard you tell Joyce to peel out! I was right there, you know! You’re not still a good kid; you’ve become a bad influence! Get out of my car! Your dad was right; I never want you anywhere near Joyce again!”
I mean, if it were just her and Billie dealing with this shit then yeah, I’d agree, but now you’ve got bystanders like Carla getting shit on because Ruth can’t do anything.
‘Sides, sometimes relationships need breaks in order to come back stronger.
A break does not have to be irreparable. That’s the danger. Mary has a point about Ruth needing to get her s*** together, but not at the expense of a potentially good relationship.
However, if their relationship can’t survive this, then maybe it wasn’t so good to begin with.
I would argue that the relationship was nothing but Billie desperately clutching at straws to save Ruth. Ruth is someone that she likes at lot but I wonder if their current relationship is really based in romantic love or is just a mutual life preserver.
Prolly the latter and it’s relying very heavily on NRE at the moment (new relationship energy that makes relationships feel perfect and wonderful… for the first couple of months to a year). There’s ways that they could work and be healthier for each other and there’s frequently glimpses of it, but they’ve definitely been adding as much strain as possible to their relationship (by making it a thing that it supposed to save them rather than just a positive thing to enjoy) which makes it considerably harder.
Sadly, she’s not used to being robbed of power like this… or at least not by a fellow student (her grandpa? on the other hand…). And she’s not used to facing homophobia like that. She’s not sure what to do here and her brain is probably screaming all sorts of unhealthy stuff, not to mention the guilt she is probably going through having “abandoned” Carla. So yeah, I imagine all told, her mental state is well past frayed into full-blown tattered.
I hate to break it to you, Billie, but making up implausible alternate explanations for the fact that you’ve obviously totally moved into Ruth’s room, wearing her clothes, and publicly engaging in foreplay with her in the hallways is not “laying low”.
Nah. This is just fearfully protecting her butt. Finding a spine isn’t in covering your tracks, and it isn’t in trying to wreak whatever righteous vengeance you feel someone deserves. Growing a spine requires admitting that you mucked up, and working to resolve and recognize everyone’s grievances. Even those of people you might not like.
Alternatively, finding a spine involves looking through a university medical dissection lab. The latter’s messier, though.
STOP DRINKING OR STOP THE SEX?
because one is healthy and one is not but one is what’s getting them in trouble right now and the other is not and i honestly just want to know which they are giving up.
As much as I kinda enjoy their relationship, the bit where they were just friends and were helping each other become sober was my favourite dynamic* for them. It was a complete sham, but I still liked it in theory.
*Especially that one time Ruth called Billie a troubled teen to her face.
Much as I want Ruth to be shot out of a cannon into the sun fired, ending the relationship would probably be the trigger for Ruth actually going through with her suicidal idealization.
Now that I think about it, Ruth did try to get sober for a while, though with the unhealthy justification of “get better for Billie because Billie is my only hope.”
“And so the evil lesbians were taught the error of their ways and suffered a lot on their way to hell were they suffered for all eternity. The Perfect Girl that reported them got her reward on earth and in heaven.”
Mary closed the book. “Don’t we all love a happy ending?” *smugsmile*
It…just hit me that it’ll be a miracle if this doesn’t end in a suicide attempt for at least one of them. Dammit. Mary had better get what’s coming to her.
Oh, very much this. Mary and other assholes like her never fully appreciate just how much they play with fire when they make depressed people feel even more trapped and without hope. And they never associate the bad endings with their toxic actions.
Ok, uh, Ruth. I know that the relationship between you and Billie is codependent and, without professional psychiatric help for both of your problems with depression and alcoholism, but please think harder about this. However, if you are to panicked and frayed right now to think straight, which is likely, at least panically (is that even a word, well is now if it wasn’t before) tell Billie why instead of leaving her confused. Also, Willis, how do you make me care about fictional characters so much? The only other universes I have cared about this much are Star Wars, Middle-Earth, and Avatar the Last Airbender.
with this Uni being practically a gayglomeration (i mean like, half the students are gay and some teachers too, except for those who go on banging there students) I think that Ruth concerns about her being penalized for getting all fiddly diddly with that lucious ex-chearleader.
It’s not the female-female interaction between Ruth and Billie that would be the problem, it is the fact that as an RA Ruth is supposed to be an authority figure. Playing “lez be friends” with Billie is a no-no, although I do agree that it is still less of a problem than if the administration were to find out that Jason and Sal have been bumping uglies in the supply closet.
I mean like, she has many things not to be proud of as an RA: drinking, violence, probably not good at keeping order etc… just having a relationship (homosexual in this case but on second thought I would extend it to relationship in general) has nothing to do with authority. Well, from my point of view RA Ruth is not supposed to be an authority figure – she is supposed to do her job. And her job is like holding meetings, annoucing regulations, communicationg problems to the admins etc… The terror-thing was purily for her own enjoyment. Besides, you know, these are hormone-loaded teenagers away from home. Hardly anyone can make an authority figure for them.
From IU’s point of view, Ruth is an authority figure, and she’s not allowed to date and/or bang anyone she has authority over. That just means the girls on her floor, though. If Billie were to swap rooms with someone in a different dorm, or even just on a different floor, they’d be totally in the clear.
Or officially disclose the relationship to Ruth’s employers. That’s actually all it usually takes.
The fact that neither of them is willing to put any actual effort into the many options available for putting the relationship on the up-and-up is another one of those ‘red flag’ deals.
well… maybe but aren’t RA’s like the cheap workforce except that you don’t have to pay them. Probably, any other IU employee has more authority than an RA. In practice nobody from the administration would care about who is she banging as long as there is no damaged property on her floor.
And so long as no one submitted a formal complaint about it. Like, yes, the school wouldn’t actually care, even though it is totally an abuse of power because schools don’t tend to care about RAs outside of crises or complaints.
But Mary is threatening a formal complaint, which means the school would have to investigate it and punish the RA if she was found to be violating a school rule (which she very much is by dating Billie, not because they are girls, but because Billie is her charge).
So yeah, it’s like school policies on alcohol and drugs. The school is deaf and blind right up until the first complaint and then it’s “surprise inspection” time.
“[Your] Resident Assistant kissing you could be a really, really bad, litigious thing.”
It doesn’t matter if the RA is the lowest in the pecking order, it’s still illegal for an RA to pursue a relationship with one of their own charges. In fact, being the bottom of the food chain makes her very easy to fire/expel and replace, for the school to prevent scandal.
No. It’s not. Please actually check the law before saying things like this.
I already posted about this once. There is one law (Seduction of a minor) that could apply if Billie were still under 18, but it has exceptions for any authority who is a student of the same institution and anyone who is less than four years older than you.
But Billie is 18, so not even that applies. Once you’re an adult, the only way the law tends to get involved in sex things is if one party reports it. As long as neither Billie nor Ruth report it as sexual harassment, the law is not involved.
Ruth has said all along that the only risk is to her job (and possibly position as a student) and she’s correct.
It’d be nice if this resulted in Ruth realizing that her bitterness and apathy have consequences, not just for herself but for others. Not in a “The world would be better off without me” way, either, but in a “I can actually help people, and I’ve failed to do so” way. When someone in authority abandons their duties, they make victims not only of those they abuse with their power, but those they refuse to help.
Right now, she’s still in butt-covering mode, though, so we’ll see. I’d prefer to see this resolved with empathy and consideration over vengeance.
As I write this, it suddenly occurs to me that, if Ruth mentions Mary’s blackmailing to Billie, Billie might respond by assaulting Mary in some way, and down we go down the vengeance spiral.
The black hairs in the room would be a dead giveaway only if someone were consciously looking for them. And I don’t think anyone in the comic has gone all CSI:IU yet.
This is one of those things we call paranoid panic. The truth is, universities aren’t courts of law; they don’t need absolute proof (or, really, any proof, actually) of wrong-doing to render a summary judgement for or against someone. The accusations are sometimes enough to render at least a temporary judgement and that alone can be enough to mess your life up.
Quite honestly, the easiest thing to demonstrate is just Becky. She isn’t a student at the school. She doesn’t live near the school. Yet her father turned up at the school with a gun, endangering students’ lives. The school has surveillance cameras in the cafeteria and probably around the dorms; wouldn’t take much to demonstrate Mary’s right.
No matter what the evidence is otherwise, Ruth would be fired for that alone. Hee-yuge breach of university policies.
I doubt anyone, even Joyce, would receive punishment given the extraneous circumstances, but Becky legally cannot stay at the dorm.
That everybody except for Ruth has caught on and and formed La Resistance to keep Becky hidden would probably indicate to her superiors that she should have known.
No, I get she can’t legally stay there. Just like you can’t legally sleep in your girlfriends room more than a few times, but just like that, it’s very commonly overlooked.
The only way it’s a real issue for Ruth is if someone complains to her and she doesn’t act. Which Mary has now done, in a very distorted kind of way.
And the idea that others conspiring to keep if from her somehow making it worse for her is very weird to me. Look: evidence that they knew I didn’t know and were actively hiding it from me. That’s a defense.
Mind you, it’ll look bad and might make the authorities take a closer look at the dorm and find all the other things Ruth’s doing horribly wrong, but this is the least of her problems in itself.
Becky isn’t just “staying there”, though. She’s planning on hiding there for the entire semester until she can enroll herself.
It’s not a matter of everyone conspiring against her, it’s that everybody except Ruth noticed that there was a new girl here, whereas she’s someone whose job it is to know that shit’s not happening in her dorm. I can’t imagine that of all things being something she’s fired for, but it’s her job to know.
Unless I missed my mark, Becky’s been staying there for over a week. That Ruth didn’t know about it is still an indictment against her, since she’s supposed to know who is living in the dorms.
Even if the university was lenient there, the only way they’d do so is being informed that people were hiding Becky from her, thereby screwing over everyone else. Plus, someone DID inform Ruth of Becky being there: Mary. When Mary threw her blackmail threat at Ruth, she informed her that a “vagrant” was sleeping in the dorms. If Ruth is asked why it took so long to come forwards, she’d have to explain the blackmail.
Again, no real way for Ruth to come forwards here without being caught for something that’d be seen as a dereliction of duty, and possibly a serious offense.
As far as publicity goes, that might play a factor, but it doesn’t change anything I just said. The university might have to be very careful about it, but it would have to remove Ruth from her RA position either way.
Ruth could investigate, discover that the culprit isn’t present now, giving her an excuse to wait. Confront Becky & Joyce on Monday (or Sunday evening) when they’re back and if they can’t resolve the situation report it then. There is literally nothing she can do right now, other than report she’s been told that there’s a long term guest in the dorms, but she couldn’t find anyone when she looked. Which would be a silly pointless report.
That’s assuming Mary’s willing to admit to that complaint, which since it’s tied to her blackmail effort is questionable. That said, it’s all largely irrelevant, since the Billie part really is a problem.
That’s something that’s actually going to be against the rules, not just missing something that she probably should have noticed.
There’s a lot of stuff going on against the rules in any residence hall. The RA isn’t responsible for finding and stopping it all. Just dealing with it when it gets too blatant or someone complains.
I’m not sure we’re in disagreement here, really; no matter who pulls the trigger, it’s a case of MAD. There isn’t really any scenario that works out where everyone comes away clean.
Aside from everyone just kinda growing up a little and being civil to each other, anyway.
Ruth has to decide what is more important to her: the job she hates and only does because she needs the independence that it gives her, or the woman who makes her want to live and probably is the only thing that makes her able to do her job? The problem is that Ruth doesn’t have a history of making decisions in her own best interests.
Now, is it me, or is Willis busy sending all of the existing main cast romantic pairings into a crisis for some reason?
From the tiny glimpse we got of her home life, her independence seems pretty important or at least better than the alternative. And having one person be entirely responsible for your mental & emotional well-being is NOT healthy. That this is someone she has some level of authority over doesn’t help things either.
So… unreported relationships across an officially-enforced power gap are pretty much legally by definition sexual harassment. In many states, working for an educational institution with state funding automatically makes most kinds of sexual harassment a felony when the victim is a student.
So yes. Yes, you should stop. The fact that Ruth isn’t willing to disclose the relationship to the institution (which is actually all it takes to make it not harassment anymore, generally, though there’s state to state variation) and would rather be legally a rapist than submit to basic professional ethics is a red flag the size of Texas that the relationship is much, much worse for both parties than being single for a bit would be, if nothing else.
Also, it seems like any impression that the relationship has improved Ruth’s life/behavior is just in her head, she’s still not doing her job at all and drinking all the time. I mean, she goes well beyond the narrative necessity of authority figures being useless to allow the drama to happen.
Again, stop saying this. It’s not true. For adults, sexual harassment has to be alleged by the person it is being done to.
I don’t know how many friends I’ve had who wound marrying their boss or their college teacher or anything like that. Yes, they would have gotten in trouble at their job or school if they were found out.
I mean, seriously! We’ve already had this discussion and this was already pointed out. Why are so many people still clinging to this idea that it’s illegal? The comic doesn’t even try to sell it as illegal.
It’s interesting that despite Ruth being the one with the more obvious alcoholism symptoms – we’ve seen her passed out in a pile of bottles, for example, she seems far more willing to give up the booze than Billie.
She was literally trying to drink herself to death and definitely had withdrawal symptoms when she stopped, but she did stop that first time. And she seems willing to do so again now.
She’s physically addicted, but may not be really alcoholic. Unlike Billie, who didn’t even try the first time and reacts like this to the slightest suggestion of getting rid of booze.
Agreed. That third panel was the first time the notion that Billie is an alcoholic really cemented in my mind. Before, I thought she enjoyed alcohol a bit too much, but she didn’t really seem addicted to me now. But her freaking out… Yeah, that’s what addiction is like.
Ruth’s always been far more aware she has a problem and is on a destructive road. Billie on the other hand lives in denile city and while she occasionally has been forced to acknowledge her problem is quick to build up her newest habits into being okay.
Everything’s fine. I don’t have depression or a drinking problem anymore because I have love and a purpose and have already had a major personal growth moment. La de la.
And it’s what’s most concerning about their relationship. How they use it to paper over the most pressing psychological problems rather than using the little oxycontin surge to be able to start honestly looking at some of their self-destructive behaviors and where they are leading.
Ruth, by definition, is an alcoholic. You’re right that she seems to at least be capable of putting an effort into stopping, though then again she later admitted that she was just holding on until Billie gave up on her so she could die.
I think the difference is that while they’re both alcoholics, Ruth considers her drinking a problem, while Billie doesn’t. Ruth hates herself for drinking because she knows it’s making things worse and the whole deal with her parents, while Billie doesn’t mind drinking at all. Even when Billie tries to get Ruth to stop because she can recognize that it’s very damaging to Ruth, Billie does so haphazardly because she doesn’t really seem to think that that the alcohol is the problem (this is her general attitude; see also Joyce’s dorm party).
I’d phrase it more as “Billie’s problem is alcoholism”, “Ruth’s problem is depression, which drives her alcoholism.” She’s self-medicating for depression. As far as we know, Billie’s just drinking.
That Billie doesn’t recognize the problem and Ruth does is true, but it’s secondary. Deal with the depression and I think Ruth wouldn’t have much trouble with the alcoholism – beyond getting through the physical withdrawal symptoms. Of course, dealing with the depression is not trivial in itself.
Well, if we’re going to be specific… Ruth’s problem is depression, which drives her alcoholism. Billie’s problem is alcoholism, which probably doesn’t help much with her self esteem issues. We’ve already seen her drink heavily when emotionally upset.
The other side of Ruth though is that while she recognizes the alcohol as a problem and has shown herself willing to stop, she doesn’t seem to be able to do the same for the depression.
What Ruth is doing there in panel 1 – that’s anxiety cleaning. I’ve seen that in my house. You’re worried about something, and you see a mess that needs to be cleaned up, so you start cleaning it up but then you see another mess so you start on that but then you see another mess and another and another and your house is a pig sty and it keeps getting worse and worse and then you’re on your knees weeping because your life is falling apart
*deep breath*
The messes are not the problem. The original worry is the problem. Talk to her, Billie. Get her to tell you what’s wrong. Don’t get distracted by the messes.
You can tell our esteemed bard is young. When you get older, bending over like that is mandatory. Bending your knees isn’t acceptable when they don’t work. Here’s a little advice I heard years ago that I’d like to pass along to the younger folks here: “Be kind to your knees, you’ll miss them when they’re gone.”
Ruth is hated for bad things she’s actually done. It’s not remotely equivalent to the shit characters like Sal, Becky, Roz and Dorothy get for crimes like “not being contrite enough.”
The level to which people engage in this dichotomic, black-and-white thinking wherein things Ruths actions permanently marks her as a horrible, irredeemable person can get a little grating, though.
Ruth should probably be held accountable for the horrible behaviour she’s already done. A personal redemption arc doesn’t expunge her abuse from history.
Where I come from, even if someone tried to drag her in court for her behaviour and succeeded in proving her guilty, there would be such a thing as extenuating circumstances, because, you know, alcoholism and depression are mental issues important enough that her sentence would probably only be to get therapy and perhaps some community service.
We’re very, very far from “un-expungeable”.
And if you don’t believe in those human values, then it’s your issue.
Right, I forgot attempted blackmail, physical assault, theft, harassment, and actual fucking sexual assault doesn’t count anymore because Ruth has issues. It’s okay to be an abuser as long as your reason’s good enough.
Fuck that. Ruth’s got shit on her plate and she deserves to get better, but it doesn’t fucking go away. Jail? Fuck if I know, she probably deserves it alone for sexually assaulting Billie but sure whatever, let’s pretend that depression is a fucking get out of jail free card, why the fuck should she still be allowed to do her job when her addictions and mental illness are not only interfering with actually doing it, but she’s also abusing her authority to cause harm? Does Ruth get a by for that? Can I fuck up and get away with it now because I’m on medication?
The vast majority of that was against Billie, though you could argue harassment and assault in the form of threats against the other residents. If Billie wants to press charges, I’m completely behind her. Without that, there wouldn’t be a court in the world that would convict her of a thing.
She could probably get fired, most likely wind up out of school and pretty much screwed for life, if I’m reading the hints at her backstory right. Even the shortest jail sentence would certainly do the same.
But then I was never much for punishment. It’s necessary as a deterrent and for separating people who are still doing damage. Beyond that, the current US system mostly just screws people up beyond recovery and puts huge barriers in their already difficult path when they get out. Rehabilitation should be the goal. If people actually change, then punishing them for what they did is really kind of pointless. In the real world of course it’s also hard to know if they really have changed.
And I think, from what we’ve seen of her, if her worst issues got dealt with, Ruth would actually be a pretty good RA. We’ve seen her try to care and try to help, even from her depression. Physically confronting Blaine was far above and beyond the call, for example.
Currently, she certainly shouldn’t be an RA, I’m certainly down with that.
I am actually getting genuinely angry from all of this (not you, I mean), so I’m just gonna try and calmly say this and fuck off for the rest of the night before I make anything worse.
It would be nice for Ruth to get better. It would be nice if she confronted her problems and started healthily dealing with, and shit, if she flipped out sometime, well, whatever. It happens. I’m more willing to give some string to people who suffer from illnesses like this as long as they make an effort. All that said, I genuinely could not give any less of a fuck if she didn’t, because it’s not the responsibility of abuse victims to pick up their abuser’s pieces.
She doesn’t deserve her job. She has failed at every aspect of her job five times over before we even get into her abusing Billie. She needs to be removed from any form of authority and be gently assisted into getting help that will teach her how to cope with her depression and alcoholism, and hopefully overcome it without causing any more harm than she already has.
You’re not really going to convince me that the dichotomic, black-and-white thinking that marks a character as a horrible, irredeemable person is righteous because that character “sorta did tons of horrible shit”. When I complain about this, it’s because I find it grating how people seem to regard her character as being ultimately nothing but a bully, and insist on stressing this again and again, to the point where it seems like characters aren’t allowed to improve.
Lash out in a stupid way because you’re super depressed and trapped in a downwards spiral of substance abuse where the only emotion you can feel is anger? Irredeemable.
When she started harassing and assaulting Billie out of a misplaced grudge, up to the point where she threw her into a wall and fucking jammed her tongue down her throat, well, I’m kind of overflowing with indifference as to why she does it. I’m more concerned with the people who suffer from the Ruths of the world.
“Lashing out” is an understatement and pretty fucking insensitive to real people who suffer from the Ruths of the world’s “lashing out”. If she was just kind of an asshole then sure, whatever. People are assholes sometimes and suffering from a mental illness and an addiction puts you in a position where you are going to suffer from the worst effects of it more often, but Ruth? Fuck Ruth. Ruth needs to face the fucking consequences of her actions.
Not unless suffering from depression suddenly means I get to do whatever the fuck I want to whoever I want without consequence. Wish someone told me about that because I would have cashed that shit in years ago. It’s good to know that all personal agency and responsibility goes out the fucking window because I have issues.
Can’t possibly image why a bunch of folks trying to tell me “nuh uh its okay for ruth to be an abuser she has issues” might rub me the wrong way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It seems like you enjoy reading things the way you want to read them so you can react the way you want to react, so I’ll just remove myself from this simulacre of a conversation.
Then what were you trying to say? What about what I said was even remotely incorrect?
For god’s sake, it is possible to acknowledge Ruth’s abuse without thinking it makes her some irredeemable monster, but that doesn’t fucking excuse it. Abuse doesn’t go away because the abuser goes “oh golly maybe this is kinda fucked up!” Why the fuck are we treating mental illness like a get out of jail free card when all it does is stigmatize actual, real life sufferers of these illnesses?
Ruth does not just “lash out”. Ruth waged a campaign of harassment against someone who didn’t fucking do anything, but it’s okay because she has reasons. Where’s the fucking logic in that?
She wasn’t harassing Billie out a misplaced grudge, but out of an attraction she didn’t know how to handle. That doesn’t actually make it any better, but it’s pretty clear in retrospect that’s what was going on.
I’m pretty sure there was a little of both. Ruth harasses Billie as a proxy of her parent’s killer. Ruth harasses Billie as a proxy for alcoholic self. Ruth is angry with everyone because anger is one of the few ways she can feel anything. Ruth harasses Billie because she confuses attraction with anger because anger is all she’s felt for a long, long while.
This was one of those things that clicked for me about Ruth when the strip revealed she was depressed. It was something I recognized from my own depression; a desperate need to feel something other than depressed, and seeking out anger to accomplish this.
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sadly it has not occurred to Ruth that literally nobody would miss Mary were she to “disappear”
not even her femurs
I was here before you but my comment wouldnt post…
Jen Aside, wheres my fanfiction of goth Joyce
well, you asked for it
(no idea what happened there with the Barbies tho)
She’s a darkness turducken.
Oh my gosh. Thank you. That was perfect.
Bahahahaha!!
People are using my fanficmaker site WHHHEEEEEEeeeee…..
:p
It will get seen by many more… I showed it to one of the organizers of a FanFic convention (27th year) hehhehheh…
nice 🙂
Share the horrors! ^_^
Oh god, I got trapped on the fanficmaker site. I kept trying to click the back button and it would just reload the page… adding more “Barbie”s every time. The horror ._.
ah, crap, I thought I fixed that bug. Sorry about that.
lol those are terrible. bravo
That’s actually pretty funny XD
Hmm Billie needs to get some dirt on Mary, perhaps her internet browsing history . . .
We know she draws anime style. Maybe she has work on naughty imageboards.
I for one am willing to spend hours looking at naughty imageboards to find out.
please do.
People I think we need to put aside our differences and scour every single chan and booru there is, it’s our duty as wholesome people to scan every bit of porn we can find.
As part of the human species*
Earthlings. If there’s one thing we’re good at, it’s porn.
I mean, we fucking nailed that shit.
If there were aliens watching our television, I wonder how they would react to porn.
They’d probably be like “Doesn’t do it for me, but for a species to have it I completely understand” for the majority and then be “What? What the-Why?!?!? Oh god why?!? What is wrong with these creatures?” For the niche weird stuff. And then they’d glass us.
They would eventually deduce its the reason we have large, HD TVs and VR headsets while they are stuck with small round black and white CRTs.
Case in point: the two sexual euphemisms in your last sentence. :b
Mr. Rogers would.
But he’d miss everybody.
“Ruth, do you know where Mary went?”
“Haven’t got a clue. I think I saw her getting in a van with some Hare Krishnas.”
Tell everyone she moved to Africa to be a missionary.
Bulmeria!
I think glorious Arstotzka could use her.
“Papers, please!”
“Alright! Here we go!
Glory to Arstotzka!
Greatest country in world!”
A missing person that nobody missed at all.
I think that’s just “absent”
Once again, sad little voice going “noooooooo” in my head after reading
Same thing going through Billie head too.
wait… we cut away immediately again?
let me guess, tomorrow we finally see ethan again
We’re going to get a strip devoted to every possible pairing of characters who have any sort of drama going on.
Wait til we get to the Mike/Asma scene. And the Daisy/Malaya scene is going to be amazing.
Nah, it’s only the ones where there’s a possible candidate for “that perfect girl”.
…so, yes. All of them.
so definitely ethan, then
Galasso is that perfect girl. Duh.
Galasso’s fighting Ladybeard for that title
Galasso is perfect therefore, must be that perfect girl. Now, can someone please explain what a girl is again?
FOOL!!! GALASSO IS THE PERFECT PERSON!!!
Jocelyne
Frankly, I’m half expecting Joyce to return to a dorm where everyone is glaring at everyone else and all the pairings have changed.
Is there a whiteboard with the current local Love Dodecahedron on the floor, or do these damn kids do all that with some app these days?
Fun fact: Robin DeSanto paid for her political campaign when she created iShip, a smartphone app used specifically for this.
I hope she is talking about drinking and not the sexy times.
For Ruth and Billie the two are pretty inseparable.
Ruthie – “We need to lay low!”
Billie – “Now you’re talking!”
The two get into bed and lay together.
Ruthie – “I said we need to lay LOW!”
Billie – “Ohhhhhh, right”
They get into the bottom bunk and lay (low) together. 😉
Billie got in on the ground floor
You know, Billie, maybe more alcohol isn’t the solution this time.
They should give ‘shrooms a try. ^_^
I was going to suggest that slipping Mary some might chill her out, but it’s probably just as likely she’d hallucinate Jesus telling her to kill the president or something.
“Or any potential future one, your choice”.
Psilocybin, lysurgic acid, and ibogaine have all been indicated as potential treatments for alcohol abuse.
That would solve the problem, though…
Microdosing ain’t too bad.
Alcohol is cause of, and solution to, pretty much all of Billie’s problems.
I dunno. If Mary was drunk she probably wouldnt be as perceptive.
good on her about the booze i think
The swerve! It was shocking!
They just need to fuse into Garnet and enroll as a completely new student.
I don’t get it. Rubidium and bismuth don’t make garnet.
And an even worse drunk.
Does she mean alcohol or the awesome sex?
YES!
Well then…..that happened….relationships am i right?
TFW you’ve been out-bongoed.
Wombats :3
I am confused. Why is she not allowed to have a girlfriend?
…uh, read the comic again ?
We’re about five-hundred pages too late for that. But yeah I never thought that her and Billie doing the fireman’s tango was against the rules. I just thought as long as they weren’t doing the dope it was all chill chill.
Nope, you are never supposed to be romantically involved with people you have power over.
That’s never made sense to me. Love is love, right?
Well let’s ask somebody who actually knows about this stuff.
Huey Lewis and the News! Take it away!
The Power Of Loveis a curious thing
Make a one man weep, make another man sing
Change a hawk to a little white dove
More than a feeling that’s the power of love
Tougher than diamonds, whips like cream
Stronger and harder than a bad girls dream
Make a bad one good, make a wrong one right
Power of love will keep you home at night
It dont need money, dont take fame
Dont need no credit card to ride this train
Its strong and its sudden and its cruel sometimes
But it might just save your life
Thats the power of love, thats the power of love
First time you feel it, it might make you sad
Next time you feel it, it might make you mad
But you’ll be glad, baby when you’ve found
Thats the power, makes the world go round
And it dont need money, dont take fame
Dont need no credit card to ride this train
Its strong and its sudden and its cruel sometimes
But it might just save your life
They say that all in love is fair
Yeah but you dont care
But you know what to do
When it gets hold of you
And with a little help from above
You feel the power of love
You feel the power of love, can you feel it?
It dont take money, dont take fame
Dont need no credit card to ride this train
Tougher than diamonds and stronger than steel
You wont feel it when until you feel
You feel the power, just feel the power of love
Thats the power and thats the power of love
You feel the power of love, you feel the power of love
You feel the power of love
It clouds your judgement and shows preferential treatment, which is unfair. Ruth is supposed to be impartial and there to help and support the students under her.
No, sometimes it isn’t. And manipulative people can be really good at playing head games to exploit people they have power over.
Rules against relationships with people you have authority over exist for good reasons.
Are there special cases where it isn’t like that? Yes. And they seem to be the kind we’ve mostly seen in DoA. They make more interesting stories, but that doesn’t mean they are common.
If you allow that sort of exception, every exploitative asshole will claim that exception applies to them.
The potential for abuse is just too high.
[/fuddyduddy]
You only need to read up on sexual harassment/assault in the military to see just why these rules exist, and why they’re generally not even close to sufficient to prevent abuse anyway.
People are always arguing about “that one exception” where it is alright and that therefore the rule should not exist. I don’t believe it. Haven’t come across a real case yet where it applied. It’s always just a “but suppose if…”
If you have have a formal relationship involving power (like teacher-student, psychologist-client, boss-employee, and, yes, RA-student on your floor) and you really are in love, then do something to end the formal, power-imbalanced relationship before you start having sex.
The rules, to my mind, are in reality not only about the abuse of power to convince someone to have sex, but also to avoid what Sal tried (peddling sex for advantages) which undermines the authority structures. I can see that anything undermining authority structures might be a good thing (if only people wouldn’t be disenchanted with organized society based on rules because of that only to fall for the even bigger assholes that pretend that if everyone followed them, their rules or their (interpretation of) god, everything would be hunky-dory).
It’s not one exception. The exception is the norm. The power imbalance actually being abusive is the exception that we create rules to try and deal with. I’ve literally never encountered a situation where both were adults and there was abuse.
If the system at this college worked the way it should (and the way it worked at my college), all they’d have to do is publicly declare their relationship. Yes, Billie might have to move out, so she’d be under a different R.A., but that’s it. And even that’s debatable–they might be able to live together–I knew R.A.s who did. And, even if not, she clearly could spend the night with her, just like every other boyfriend/girlfriend can here.
(Okay, my college actually had curfews, where you couldn’t have a guest past 12 except if they signed in, but I see no sign of that here. And no one actually enforced it.)
As long as it’s out in the open, favoritism really isn’t a possibility. People will know.
Yup, and it brings up consent concerns. Like, can the person who’s the charge actually say no in all instances? If it comes time to break up with the person with power over them or they don’t want sex when the person with power over them wants and they can’t afford to lose this job, be singled out in this class, be negatively impacted in their living space, it affects their ability to stand up for their own consent and puts pressure on them to smooth out any wrinkles in the relationship in a more martyry direction so as to protect the aspect of their lives where the other person has power.
And that is frequently abused by abusers who deliberately seek out people they have power over in order to better limit their options of escape or defying them.
Hell, even in this relationship, Billie has sharp and painful experience of what being on Ruth’s bad side looks like and while they are too much in NRE and Billie has too much of her self-regard wrapped up in being an awesome romantic partner to Ruth to really think about the endings of this, that will be a concern if Billie ever decides at some point that she needs to get out of this “sexy lesbian suicide pact” for her own good.
Hell, for a more direct example of how it can be completely fucked, you just need to look to Jason/Sal and all the awful shit Jason has pulled on Sal in order to “remain impartial”.
Wait, what “awful shit” has Jason pulled on Sal, again? The only thing I remember is him giving her a bad grade, and that was implied to be the grade she actually earned, and she was mainly angry with him for it because she’d assumed having sex with him would buy her preferential treatment.
I think I compiled a long list a bit ago:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/admirably/#comment-845670
Ah, this should be it.
Love is love, and favoritism is favoritism, and relationship issues having implications for the lives of everyone else in the dorm are relationship issues having implications for the lives of everyone else in the dorm.
Right up until the person you have power over wants to break up, and the other partner is a dick about it and holds their job or whatever over them.
Plus if one of them is in a position of power over the other there is likely to be an element of coercion.
Basically it’s fine as long as everyone is fully consenting; but as soon as one is not there is a strong potential for abuse. And that abuse has happened often enough (because humans are dicks) that now our culture doesn’t allow it.
Actually, because academics is one of the few professions where working with your spouse has been common for a long time, there’s usually a system for dealing with relationships across a power gap. You disclose the relationship formally, with the knowledge that it will now be verified and considered a fact of the case if you’re accused of something related, e.g. favoritism or sexual harassment.
I’m not sure why people in this thread seem to be unaware that employment law is designed to accommodate workplace relationships. Workplaces have been mixed-gender environments since the 1970s even outside of academics, trust me, if it’s not a straight-up felony there’s a system in place for dealing with it happening.
Yeah, but that would mean disclosing the relationship as soon as it becomes relevant – either when applying for the job, or as soon as the relationship begins if both of you are already working in the same workplace.
But Ruthie and Billie have certainly not informed anybody – in fact, they’ve been deliberately hiding the information – and it’s been a few weeks already since they hooked up, has it not? (maybe only a couple of weeks, I’m not certain on when they hooked up in the timeline…)
She can have a girlfriend, just not one that’s one of the residents of the dorm floor she’s RA for.
So…she could get Billie transferred to a different floor, then they could be girlfriends legitimately?
I dunno how college dorms work, I lived at home when I was going to uni.
Yup. Ditto if she was to resign from her RA job for “personal reasons”.
But neither is in a head space to do that. Ruth seems to be relying on this job for some measure of financial independence and Billie is still very much of the frame of mind that it is her personal job to keep Ruth from killing herself and closeness is very key for her for that. Plus it’s a lot of paperwork and the school will want a reason that’s actually compelling for them to shuffle things around (and that might involve throwing Ruth or Sal under the bus to do so).
Well, she could officially move to another floor to make it legit and still basically live with Ruth, just not under her authority any more.
But yeah, they’re not going to do that because neither of them is thinking clearly. Because they’re drunken teens.
Wait what why Sal? Because of Becky?
Because she’s nominally Billie’s roommate, so normally to request a move, she’d have to demonstrate cause, which usually means showing how the roommate situation is negatively impacting her well-being or is otherwise proving untenable, which means throwing Sal under the bus in terms of basically making a complaint about her to the college.
shes the RA. billie is one of her charges. its an abuse of power, so its against the rules.
Of course, so is heavy abuse and violence of her charges, but she seems to get away with it.
But more importantly, RUTH thinks her relationship with Billie can get her in trouble, so therefor Mary has power over her.
…whereas she never before used to give a shit* about physically abusing the other students, and so nobody could do a thing to stop her.
*(current exchange rate of 1 shit = 0.13 fucks)
she still doesnt seem to give a shit about abusing students but shes used to getting away with that. being in/hiding a relationship is a new situation for her so she doesnt know how to deal with it, and shes gonna treat it more seriously
Indeed, which is why Mary not being scared of her is the game-changer. When everyone was a bit afraid of her and not willing to report downstairs about her methods, her methods produced an effect downstairs liked. If the report comes down that she has violated an ordinance surrounding “proper relationships” then that will trigger at least formally an investigation which could lead to Ruth’s other misdeeds coming to light and thus downstairs caring about all of it.
And there’s also the fact that schools and other American institutions frequently care a fuckton more about sex than they do violence.
You know, as much as Ruth likes to talk about doing terrible things to people’s femurs, this is a more-or-less real-world setting, so she would actually get in serious trouble if she deliberately injured her students. She’s managed to intimidate most of her students by talking big and taking down Billie at the start of the year (without physically harming her, note) but Mary’s smart enough to see she can’t back it up.
Because said girlfriend is one of the students under her care. It’s considered an abuse of position. Even if it’s consensual, there is the vulnerability of Ruth being accused of using her position to pressure Billie or giving Billie unfairly favourable treatment because she’s in a relationship with Ruth.
It’s basically professional ethics issue of the “Our staff must not only be clean but be seen to be clean” sort.
How low can you go?
Lower than your mom :OOOO
How about for a nickel?
am i doing it right?Any depth you can plumb
I can go lower
I can plumb any depth
Lower than yooooooooooooooooooou
Billie confirmed for black cat.
Werecat.
There cat.
There castle.
Of course, the rates have gone up.
Nobody can resist the power of cuteness and fluffiness of anything that resembles cats.
NekoBillie?
Saw tags, “Billie and Ruth, yay”
Comic loaded, *tears*
http://imgur.com/gallery/pp4Za
¨So. Uh, get into the 69 position so we can lay lower¨
Don’t worry guys, there’s a preview panel from Feb 4 of them arguing, but Billie’s pointing at someone very happily on Feb. 9.
Its her new boyfriend…(enter horrible person here of your choosing)
either that or its me
I don’t know that those choices are mutually exclusive.
Maybe she’ll be pointing at Mary and happily telling her to get the fuck off out of the college campus?
Then we’re all set for BillieRuth snuggles, yay!
….shut up, I can dream. 😀
Vicious happy or cheerful happy?
Plays Diana Ross and the Supreme’s “Stop! In the name of Love!” on the hacked Muzak.
Oh wow, Mary accidentally did good.
I’m sure she’ll make it significantly worse in the future, but still.
I…am not sure I’d call this good. The worst is yet to come. Those two are unhealthy and ill-advised as hell, but they’re also the only thing keeping each other going.
Hrm, I may just be optimistic. I was assuming she meant “stop” the drinking. Not the happy lesbian funtimes. Those should probably stay.
I dunno. This is an even unhealthier dynamic, what with the paranoid panic scouring for “clues” to get rid of and the “burn everything” mentality. I think Mary’s going to get her primary goal at least of causing people suffering.
Not to mention the last time they tried to go cold turkey there were unfortunate physical repercussions thanks to the withdrawal symptoms.
If they can’t find some legal way of easing those they are still gonna be in trouble, whether it comes down from the Dean’s office or not.
You mean the happy bisexual funtimes, since both Billie and Ruth are bi.
I wonder. Ruth sleeping with one of her charges isn’t really a big deal beyond the rules broken, it’s why I don’t go “BOO THIS MAN” over Jason because he stringently refused to actually give Sal her undeserved grade and it ultimately had no consequence. I wouldn’t call them happy by any metric, since there’s so much wrong with their relationship even beyond Mary’s blackmail, but I wouldn’t consider the rules being broken as that big a deal in the same way I’d rather Becky be illegally hiding in the dorms rather than follow the law and get her ass kicked out onto the streets.
Oh, of course, it just always seems awkward to call the specific situation(s) bisexual if everyone involved is the same gender.
Not really, no.
Personally, I find it awkward and uninformative. Saying “lesbian” relationship tells you something – that they’re both girls. “Bisexual” doesn’t, could be any combination.
Is it only a bisexual relationship if they’re both bi? Would you need to specify “bisexual/lesbian relationship” if one was lesbian and the other bi?
I get bisexual erasure, but this particular usage seems odd to me.
It erases our identity and informs the baseless stereotype that bisexuality involves switching between orientations by putting labels on the kind of relationships we enter. It’s harmful specifically because our relationship status is used to define what kind of queer we really are.
“Same gender/sex relationship” while lacking a spicy frisson, is more informative and does so without enforcing toxic labels.
“same-sex relationship” does work better for me. Or gender, either way.
Exactly. It says the important part, that this person whose sexual orientation isn’t exclusively homosexual is in a relationship with someone of the same gender, without casting the implication that being in that relationship means said person is gay, as if homosexuality was the only way not to be straight.
I just say “relationship”, but that’s me and we are a society obsessed with labeling.
Are they keeping each other going, though? Billie’s relatively low-grade generic “moved to a new place, things are changing, argh” angst has been replaced with having an abusive girlfriend, and Ruth’s behavior is… literally exactly the same as it was pre-Billie.
Does Ruth have to worry this much? Does Mary have hard evidence? Cause if it’s word against word I think Mary loses.
all the hard evidence is in her room and if there was an investigation theyd be found out immediately
There’s only one option.
Drink the evidence!
This. My guess is she’s hoping she might be able to clean it up and make it look good before reporting Mary and letting her pull the trigger. Doubt Billie is going to take that well though, especially since Ruth is in full-blown panic mode and more likely to frame it as more of the “we need to stop entirely” than a “hey, we need to fake like we’re in different rooms for a week or so”.
Becky’s away for a while, so Billie could move back to her room. (They’d just have to hide Becky’s clothes somewhere.) One good cleanup of Ruth’s room later, all physical evidence supporting Mary’s accusations is gone.
Even if everyone goes back to their previous arrangements, the board will brush Mary off as the girl who cried wolf.
Hell, she just has to add her own clothes. Thet have big closets and it’s not like they’re really going to check each article of clothing and interview Billie about her pwrsonal style while checking security tapes. Also Sal’s school uniforms wiuld probably raise way more questions
There are black hairs in Ruth’s room and she’s cleaning it up.
There are (Becky’s) red hairs in Billie’s room and she might have forgotten.
Those are easier to brush off as those will be assumed to belong to someone the student is shtuping, and that could actually help Becky out. Hmm, there was an anonymous student being over here a lot… and a lot of reports of you having a new partner… and all this red hair… yeah, you know what, I don’t think we need to go any further into this, sorry for intruding on your private affairs.
Unless Mary decides to suggest that it’s Ruth’s hair.
Is anyone really going to go all CSI on anyone’s hair, though, even with Mary’s accusations? My first thought was that Ruth is being paranoid.
And, yes, I know that Ruth and Becky’s hair is not the same length or precisely the same color, but I don’t know how well you can tell that from isolated individual strands.
Nope, not even a little bit. Honestly, they’ll probably just ask a few questions and visit her dorm room and that’ll be it. She’s definitely going overboard with the paranoia. And on the isolated strands question… heh, I’m actually teaching a Forensics Science class at the moment so I can say, yes, but they wouldn’t bother.
Becky didn’t have that many clothes anyways, and may have brought all of them with her. If not, it would be most of her clothes; and I doubt they’re going to be going through her closet holding each item up to Billie to ensure it fits.
Billie moving back into her room while Becky’s gone is probably a really good idea, yeah.
Becky’s also about the same size as Sal, as we’ve seen. Unless it’s something that couldn’t reasonably be in Sal’s wardrobe (another Andersen top, a Himmel the Humming Hymnal t-shirt, stuff like that), ‘yeah, that’s mahn’ works.
Yeah, I’m prepared for this conflict to get super annoying when everyone utterly fails to see the blisteringly obvious solutions to the problem and instead elects to crash and burn in a storm of melodrama.
Well, I mean, it’s Ruth and Billie. Crashing and burning is kinda their default way of handling things. It tends to go with the complete lack of self-respect and depression.
Mary hasn’t put forth any evidence except her own word. I suppose that could trigger some kind of investigation, but mostly, Ruth is just scared, and scared people aren’t logical.
No, but depression and anxiety often walk hand-in-hand, even if both aren’t clinical. This is the stage of panicky “I need to sweep every spot of evidence of anything I ever did in my life away so the secret spy cameras that have obviously been examining every detail of my life and even know about the cavity that’s starting in my tooth can’t find any more evidence.” Followed by coming out of it after the crisis mode has passed and binging worse than before on the alcohol and becoming even more self-destructive because, “GAWD how could I have let myself be so stupid and spiral out of control like that again, now I have to redo the entire set-up to spiraling out of control.”
Yup. Second half often fueled because “I couldn’t even spiral out-of-control successfully”
OH. OH MY GOD. You know what is gonna happen, you guys?
Ruth will do it. She will eliminate all evidence; Billie will go back to her room; everything will look like it’s fine–and then the pic that is still on Billie’s phone of Ruth, passed out, surrounded by empty booze bottles will be found.
Bam. Calling it. 🙁
Ok, so Billie will move back into her own room, Becky will be off campus, nowhere to be found, so when Mary decides to snitch, there will be no evidence, and no witnesses willing to corroborate. Mary gets humiliated, but it’s too little too late to satisfy Carla.
But then how do you explain Billie’s rampant lycanthropy?!
…
Huh.
This is actually really smart. I can see this happening…except Willis.
God.
Damn.
You.
Willis.
Hey, with Becky getting kidnapped by her dad Willis did prove that he likes the last minute save for the sake of drama.
Yeah it’s the sensible way to resolve the issue which means there’s a -56% of it being the solution they opt for.
Why would Mary decide to snitch, though?
Because Billie informs Ruth that Becky is not currently here, moves her stuff back into her dorm room quickly, and Ruth then decides to lay all of unholy hell upon Mary at the meeting tonight. At this point, Mary snitches only to figure out she has been outplayed, the administration never takes anything she says seriously again, and the whole dorm goes right on hating Mary. Eventually Mary hits rock bottom and becomes a Buddhist in the ensuing personal crisis she has.
That would work for, like, three days. Then Becky moves back into the dorm. I’m pretty sure Mary has a smart phone, so evidence gathering wouldn’t be hard.
Moreover, I’m pretty sure publicly harassing a student by calling them out in front of the entire dorm isn’t okay as far as university policy goes. Disputes are usually supposed to be privately mediated. Plus, pulling the trigger like that would also screw over Carla, who, even if insulted, was still skating in the halls to deliberately antagonize another student.
This whole situation would be best resolved by Ruth just doing her job and actually trying to mediate.
The hate speech toward Carla might get Mary moved, though. Both for Carla’s sake and because obviously Mary is uncomfortable and that makes it easy to justify without pissing off your transphobic alumni as much
(Alumni knowing because Mary would totally go to the media with ‘I was kicked out of my room because I stood up to a perversion of God’s will’ or something)
This.
But also agree with everyone that Mary is definitely settling in to be a long-term villain for the hall.
It’s possible that might be what it comes to. In practice, though, reporting her would probably blow up on everyone. It even works better for Mary now, since Ruth’s failure to report her for her unkindness to Carla would be an extra two strikes against Ruth: One for failure to intervene over a disruptive behaviour, and another for failure to actually do her job -again-. It also has to be remembered that Carla would have to explain that she not only initiated but pursued the conflict, and when Mary explains that the reason she didn’t just report it to Ruth is because Ruth struck her when she previously complained…
Well, suffice to say, there is no situation here where Mary doesn’t come off looking seriously aggrieved, herself. She might end up getting moved, but Ruth would not only be fired but expelled for all of that, or at least put on academic probation.
Even without Billie, even without Becky, there isn’t really a scenario where reporting Mary ends well for anyone. The only real way this ends well is if people just grow the heck up and start treating each other with a little decency, regardless of whether they like each other.
Mary WON’T snitch because the current state of things is exactly what she wants. She has leverage.
The moment Ruth is exposed/fired, Mary loses the power of blackmail.
Getting rid of pets for minor reasons is sad. Shedding is a case in point.
God damn it, Mary, you ruined everything.
You think this is bad, just watch what happens when Mary visits 3 Mile Island.
Damnit, wheres my booze.
“Because you’re an abusive, codependent, negligent alcoholic who is making both our lives worse by perpetuating this toxic sham of a relationship?”
“What? No? We just have to temporarily break up for the sake of dramatic tension until I feed Mary into a wood chipper or whatever. We’ll ALWAYS end up together in the end.”
“Oh good. Good thing I can fix your abusive behavior with the power of love! You just have to care for someone long enough and any problems in the relationship will magically resolve themselves! Woohoo!”
*high fives*
Anon come on, be serious.
Where they gonna’ find a wood chipper?
Maintenance and Grounds Department.
Ah yes, good ol’ MaGD!
Rolls right off the tongue.
I wish I could give you likes for this comment.
Seriously.
Oh no please anything but Ruth and Billie breaking up, I don’t think I could survive
I’m not sure they would survive that.
Mind you, I’m also not sure they’ll survive their current Sexy Lesbian Suicide Pact, for obvious reasons.
Well, either they’re in a relationship where they think they’re both going to kill themselves, or they aren’t. If the intent behind the relationship is “let’s both die” then it’s for the best they stay away from each other before they actively worsen their problems.
Although ultimately the nature of their relationship is irrelevant to what they do within that relationship. Them banging doesn’t really mean much in the face of the stated intent to kill themselves, the worsening of their alcoholism, and Ruth breaking the rules of the dorm she’s supposed to enforce.
My take is that the relationship, while it may lead to disaster in the end – and will without some drastic changes, is currently delaying disaster that probably would have already happened without it.
Obviously the best thing for both of them is to separate, stop drinking and get into therapy/treatment. Possibly to give the relationship another try when they’re both more functional.
But that’s not happening.
I think the current state is better than Ruth actively drinking herself to death, but it’s a stopgap measure.
I’m not even sure their alcoholism is worsening. We haven’t seen anything as bad as when Billie broke in to save Ruth since then.
I think, for Ruth at least, things have improved. She’s starting to inch out of that numbness and Billie’s forcing her to get up and move around, but as for them getting better? I really don’t think so. They’re still drinking and have resigned themselves to never getting better. Ruth’s in a position where she can get better and realize that there’s reasons to be alive, but that foundation is being built in a precarious environment and could easily crumble, the same way it did earlier when Billie drinking had Ruth decide that she no longer had any hope.
Remember, the relationship didn’t start because they wanted it to, it started because Billie thinks she’s inherently worthless and wants to die with Ruth, who thinks she just needs to hold out long enough for Billie to forget her so she can drink herself to death.
And then they lived drunkenly ever after.
The End
Listen to the alt-text Ruth! It speaks wisdom.
Ruth, pleeeeeease be talking about about drinking 😐
If so, Mary might actually be not the worst momentarily, even if it was very indirect.
But if Ruth is indeed talking about her and Billie, I, personally, will lead the witch hunt to remove Mary’s femurs
Is it bad I wouldn’t care all that much if they broke up? I don’t have anything against the relationship, but I’m pretty damn neutral towards it. I would be upset however if Becky and Dina broke up. I just want to see whats happening with Joyce driving.
“Augh! No, Joyce! Stop! Don’t peel out anymore!”
“I can’t stop! The brakes aren’t working! I think the dinosaur stuffy Dina loaned you is stuck under the pedal!”
“Girls, what in the heck is going on up here?! *hits emergency brake, turns off ignition* Becky, I heard you tell Joyce to peel out! I was right there, you know! You’re not still a good kid; you’ve become a bad influence! Get out of my car! Your dad was right; I never want you anywhere near Joyce again!”
I have mixed feelings about this. The alcohol thing is worth throwing out, but Ruth shouldn’t let Mary scare her so easily.
Ruth, throw the booze out, but don’t throw Billie out.
I mean, if it were just her and Billie dealing with this shit then yeah, I’d agree, but now you’ve got bystanders like Carla getting shit on because Ruth can’t do anything.
‘Sides, sometimes relationships need breaks in order to come back stronger.
A break does not have to be irreparable. That’s the danger. Mary has a point about Ruth needing to get her s*** together, but not at the expense of a potentially good relationship.
However, if their relationship can’t survive this, then maybe it wasn’t so good to begin with.
I mean, most relationships in which one partner punched and flipped the other a lot usually don’t work out.
Unless it’s between a gymnast and judo champion. FLIPS FOR DAYS!
I would argue that the relationship was nothing but Billie desperately clutching at straws to save Ruth. Ruth is someone that she likes at lot but I wonder if their current relationship is really based in romantic love or is just a mutual life preserver.
Prolly the latter and it’s relying very heavily on NRE at the moment (new relationship energy that makes relationships feel perfect and wonderful… for the first couple of months to a year). There’s ways that they could work and be healthier for each other and there’s frequently glimpses of it, but they’ve definitely been adding as much strain as possible to their relationship (by making it a thing that it supposed to save them rather than just a positive thing to enjoy) which makes it considerably harder.
Sadly, she’s not used to being robbed of power like this… or at least not by a fellow student (her grandpa? on the other hand…). And she’s not used to facing homophobia like that. She’s not sure what to do here and her brain is probably screaming all sorts of unhealthy stuff, not to mention the guilt she is probably going through having “abandoned” Carla. So yeah, I imagine all told, her mental state is well past frayed into full-blown tattered.
Is it just me or does Ruth look thinner?
I think it’s her choice of attire, though with Billie forcing her to take better care of herself she might have lost a few pounds.
Ruth… Honey. If you want drama, then okay, but otherwise you should probably explain about the implied blackmail first.
Can’t lay any lower? Start practicing Kama Sutra.
Billie doesn’t even need to look inside the bag to know that there is alcohol in it. She is booze Daredevil.
Nah, she’s Spiderdrunk: “My booze-sense is tingling!” Just draw some wavy lines above her head.
I hate to break it to you, Billie, but making up implausible alternate explanations for the fact that you’ve obviously totally moved into Ruth’s room, wearing her clothes, and publicly engaging in foreplay with her in the hallways is not “laying low”.
But she was really really proud of those implausible alternatives… she worked on them all week…
Finally. It sounds like Ruth just found her backbone (maybe with all those purloined femurs she’s collected.)
Go get her Ruth, Mary you’d best hide. (I hope I’m reading this one right).
Nah. This is just fearfully protecting her butt. Finding a spine isn’t in covering your tracks, and it isn’t in trying to wreak whatever righteous vengeance you feel someone deserves. Growing a spine requires admitting that you mucked up, and working to resolve and recognize everyone’s grievances. Even those of people you might not like.
Alternatively, finding a spine involves looking through a university medical dissection lab. The latter’s messier, though.
Todays overtext is true. So very true.
Be good to your back. It has a wicked sense of vengeance if you don’t.
STOP DRINKING OR STOP THE SEX?
because one is healthy and one is not but one is what’s getting them in trouble right now and the other is not and i honestly just want to know which they are giving up.
probably both
Stop bending over and get a real broom (and ideally a standing dustpan)
but becky likes it when she bends over ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Yes, break up and stop drinking! Two great things that become better together.
As much as I kinda enjoy their relationship, the bit where they were just friends and were helping each other become sober was my favourite dynamic* for them. It was a complete sham, but I still liked it in theory.
*Especially that one time Ruth called Billie a troubled teen to her face.
Much as I want Ruth
to be shot out of a cannon into the sunfired, ending the relationship would probably be the trigger for Ruth actually going through with her suicidal idealization.Now that I think about it, Ruth did try to get sober for a while, though with the unhealthy justification of “get better for Billie because Billie is my only hope.”
“And so the evil lesbians were taught the error of their ways and suffered a lot on their way to hell were they suffered for all eternity. The Perfect Girl that reported them got her reward on earth and in heaven.”
Mary closed the book. “Don’t we all love a happy ending?” *smugsmile*
“must… control… fist of death…”
And then the starving children hearing Mary’s story ate her.
And there was much rejoicing.
And suddenly it’s revealed Willis was that adam4d guy all along.
It was a looooong long con.
It…just hit me that it’ll be a miracle if this doesn’t end in a suicide attempt for at least one of them. Dammit. Mary had better get what’s coming to her.
Mary has to spend her entire life with Mary.
Oh, very much this. Mary and other assholes like her never fully appreciate just how much they play with fire when they make depressed people feel even more trapped and without hope. And they never associate the bad endings with their toxic actions.
Oh, some of them do and are happy that was the result of their actions.
Ok, uh, Ruth. I know that the relationship between you and Billie is codependent and, without professional psychiatric help for both of your problems with depression and alcoholism, but please think harder about this. However, if you are to panicked and frayed right now to think straight, which is likely, at least panically (is that even a word, well is now if it wasn’t before) tell Billie why instead of leaving her confused. Also, Willis, how do you make me care about fictional characters so much? The only other universes I have cared about this much are Star Wars, Middle-Earth, and Avatar the Last Airbender.
with this Uni being practically a gayglomeration (i mean like, half the students are gay and some teachers too, except for those who go on banging there students) I think that Ruth concerns about her being penalized for getting all fiddly diddly with that lucious ex-chearleader.
It’s not the female-female interaction between Ruth and Billie that would be the problem, it is the fact that as an RA Ruth is supposed to be an authority figure. Playing “lez be friends” with Billie is a no-no, although I do agree that it is still less of a problem than if the administration were to find out that Jason and Sal have been bumping uglies in the supply closet.
I mean like, she has many things not to be proud of as an RA: drinking, violence, probably not good at keeping order etc… just having a relationship (homosexual in this case but on second thought I would extend it to relationship in general) has nothing to do with authority. Well, from my point of view RA Ruth is not supposed to be an authority figure – she is supposed to do her job. And her job is like holding meetings, annoucing regulations, communicationg problems to the admins etc… The terror-thing was purily for her own enjoyment. Besides, you know, these are hormone-loaded teenagers away from home. Hardly anyone can make an authority figure for them.
From IU’s point of view, Ruth is an authority figure, and she’s not allowed to date and/or bang anyone she has authority over. That just means the girls on her floor, though. If Billie were to swap rooms with someone in a different dorm, or even just on a different floor, they’d be totally in the clear.
Or officially disclose the relationship to Ruth’s employers. That’s actually all it usually takes.
The fact that neither of them is willing to put any actual effort into the many options available for putting the relationship on the up-and-up is another one of those ‘red flag’ deals.
well… maybe but aren’t RA’s like the cheap workforce except that you don’t have to pay them. Probably, any other IU employee has more authority than an RA. In practice nobody from the administration would care about who is she banging as long as there is no damaged property on her floor.
Ruth has a master key to Billie’s room. There’s possibility of abusing the power Ruth has over Billie.
Which, you know, she has.
And so long as no one submitted a formal complaint about it. Like, yes, the school wouldn’t actually care, even though it is totally an abuse of power because schools don’t tend to care about RAs outside of crises or complaints.
But Mary is threatening a formal complaint, which means the school would have to investigate it and punish the RA if she was found to be violating a school rule (which she very much is by dating Billie, not because they are girls, but because Billie is her charge).
So yeah, it’s like school policies on alcohol and drugs. The school is deaf and blind right up until the first complaint and then it’s “surprise inspection” time.
“[Your] Resident Assistant kissing you could be a really, really bad, litigious thing.”
It doesn’t matter if the RA is the lowest in the pecking order, it’s still illegal for an RA to pursue a relationship with one of their own charges. In fact, being the bottom of the food chain makes her very easy to fire/expel and replace, for the school to prevent scandal.
No. It’s not. Please actually check the law before saying things like this.
I already posted about this once. There is one law (Seduction of a minor) that could apply if Billie were still under 18, but it has exceptions for any authority who is a student of the same institution and anyone who is less than four years older than you.
But Billie is 18, so not even that applies. Once you’re an adult, the only way the law tends to get involved in sex things is if one party reports it. As long as neither Billie nor Ruth report it as sexual harassment, the law is not involved.
Ruth has said all along that the only risk is to her job (and possibly position as a student) and she’s correct.
It’d be nice if this resulted in Ruth realizing that her bitterness and apathy have consequences, not just for herself but for others. Not in a “The world would be better off without me” way, either, but in a “I can actually help people, and I’ve failed to do so” way. When someone in authority abandons their duties, they make victims not only of those they abuse with their power, but those they refuse to help.
Right now, she’s still in butt-covering mode, though, so we’ll see. I’d prefer to see this resolved with empathy and consideration over vengeance.
As I write this, it suddenly occurs to me that, if Ruth mentions Mary’s blackmailing to Billie, Billie might respond by assaulting Mary in some way, and down we go down the vengeance spiral.
Joyce and Becky return, only to stare in horror at the corpse-strewn smoking ruins of the dorm.
Turns out Joyce’s warmth and innocent charm was pretty much the only thing from keeping the whole dorm from going to H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks.
Or as the old Joyce would have said: H-E-half-a-basketball-hoop-and-a-boomerang-facing-left-alongside-a-baseball-bat.
(that’s C and K)
“Joyce, we need your innocent charm!!!”
“God dammit, I leave you alone for ONE weekend.”
“Noooooooooo.”
Punching Mary ’til she puked worked for Billie in the other universe!
I’m sure she’s well aware there’s consequences, but she’s depressed so even if she cares she won’t actually stop.
She took Carla telling her off really harshly, though. She knew that Carla was right that Ruth fucked up and failed her.
The black hairs in the room would be a dead giveaway only if someone were consciously looking for them. And I don’t think anyone in the comic has gone all CSI:IU yet.
This is one of those things we call paranoid panic. The truth is, universities aren’t courts of law; they don’t need absolute proof (or, really, any proof, actually) of wrong-doing to render a summary judgement for or against someone. The accusations are sometimes enough to render at least a temporary judgement and that alone can be enough to mess your life up.
Quite honestly, the easiest thing to demonstrate is just Becky. She isn’t a student at the school. She doesn’t live near the school. Yet her father turned up at the school with a gun, endangering students’ lives. The school has surveillance cameras in the cafeteria and probably around the dorms; wouldn’t take much to demonstrate Mary’s right.
No matter what the evidence is otherwise, Ruth would be fired for that alone. Hee-yuge breach of university policies.
Fired for someone sneaking a friend into the dorms for a few nights? That she didn’t know about? That no one informed her of?
She’s not supposed to be spying on her charges.
And that would likely be hugely bad publicity – even beyond the original shooting: “University punishes students who tried to help kidnap victim!”
I doubt anyone, even Joyce, would receive punishment given the extraneous circumstances, but Becky legally cannot stay at the dorm.
That everybody except for Ruth has caught on and and formed La Resistance to keep Becky hidden would probably indicate to her superiors that she should have known.
No, I get she can’t legally stay there. Just like you can’t legally sleep in your girlfriends room more than a few times, but just like that, it’s very commonly overlooked.
The only way it’s a real issue for Ruth is if someone complains to her and she doesn’t act. Which Mary has now done, in a very distorted kind of way.
And the idea that others conspiring to keep if from her somehow making it worse for her is very weird to me. Look: evidence that they knew I didn’t know and were actively hiding it from me. That’s a defense.
Mind you, it’ll look bad and might make the authorities take a closer look at the dorm and find all the other things Ruth’s doing horribly wrong, but this is the least of her problems in itself.
Becky isn’t just “staying there”, though. She’s planning on hiding there for the entire semester until she can enroll herself.
It’s not a matter of everyone conspiring against her, it’s that everybody except Ruth noticed that there was a new girl here, whereas she’s someone whose job it is to know that shit’s not happening in her dorm. I can’t imagine that of all things being something she’s fired for, but it’s her job to know.
Unless I missed my mark, Becky’s been staying there for over a week. That Ruth didn’t know about it is still an indictment against her, since she’s supposed to know who is living in the dorms.
Even if the university was lenient there, the only way they’d do so is being informed that people were hiding Becky from her, thereby screwing over everyone else. Plus, someone DID inform Ruth of Becky being there: Mary. When Mary threw her blackmail threat at Ruth, she informed her that a “vagrant” was sleeping in the dorms. If Ruth is asked why it took so long to come forwards, she’d have to explain the blackmail.
Again, no real way for Ruth to come forwards here without being caught for something that’d be seen as a dereliction of duty, and possibly a serious offense.
As far as publicity goes, that might play a factor, but it doesn’t change anything I just said. The university might have to be very careful about it, but it would have to remove Ruth from her RA position either way.
Ruth could investigate, discover that the culprit isn’t present now, giving her an excuse to wait. Confront Becky & Joyce on Monday (or Sunday evening) when they’re back and if they can’t resolve the situation report it then. There is literally nothing she can do right now, other than report she’s been told that there’s a long term guest in the dorms, but she couldn’t find anyone when she looked. Which would be a silly pointless report.
That’s assuming Mary’s willing to admit to that complaint, which since it’s tied to her blackmail effort is questionable. That said, it’s all largely irrelevant, since the Billie part really is a problem.
That’s something that’s actually going to be against the rules, not just missing something that she probably should have noticed.
There’s a lot of stuff going on against the rules in any residence hall. The RA isn’t responsible for finding and stopping it all. Just dealing with it when it gets too blatant or someone complains.
I’m not sure we’re in disagreement here, really; no matter who pulls the trigger, it’s a case of MAD. There isn’t really any scenario that works out where everyone comes away clean.
Aside from everyone just kinda growing up a little and being civil to each other, anyway.
Ruth has to decide what is more important to her: the job she hates and only does because she needs the independence that it gives her, or the woman who makes her want to live and probably is the only thing that makes her able to do her job? The problem is that Ruth doesn’t have a history of making decisions in her own best interests.
Now, is it me, or is Willis busy sending all of the existing main cast romantic pairings into a crisis for some reason?
From the tiny glimpse we got of her home life, her independence seems pretty important or at least better than the alternative. And having one person be entirely responsible for your mental & emotional well-being is NOT healthy. That this is someone she has some level of authority over doesn’t help things either.
that will be the new book title!Sending all the main cast romantinc pairing s intot crisies.
So… unreported relationships across an officially-enforced power gap are pretty much legally by definition sexual harassment. In many states, working for an educational institution with state funding automatically makes most kinds of sexual harassment a felony when the victim is a student.
So yes. Yes, you should stop. The fact that Ruth isn’t willing to disclose the relationship to the institution (which is actually all it takes to make it not harassment anymore, generally, though there’s state to state variation) and would rather be legally a rapist than submit to basic professional ethics is a red flag the size of Texas that the relationship is much, much worse for both parties than being single for a bit would be, if nothing else.
Also, it seems like any impression that the relationship has improved Ruth’s life/behavior is just in her head, she’s still not doing her job at all and drinking all the time. I mean, she goes well beyond the narrative necessity of authority figures being useless to allow the drama to happen.
Again, stop saying this. It’s not true. For adults, sexual harassment has to be alleged by the person it is being done to.
I don’t know how many friends I’ve had who wound marrying their boss or their college teacher or anything like that. Yes, they would have gotten in trouble at their job or school if they were found out.
I mean, seriously! We’ve already had this discussion and this was already pointed out. Why are so many people still clinging to this idea that it’s illegal? The comic doesn’t even try to sell it as illegal.
I think the reason starts with an h and ends with an omophobia…
I really hope this is Ruth prepping to deal with Mary and not just covering her tracks because she’s nervous.
GDI Ruth. Maybe try actually explaining the situation to your girlfriend instead of just snapping at her like usual.
Oh, it’s due for next page I assume.
That’s the hope, but it could also just explode into a dumb argument.
It’s interesting that despite Ruth being the one with the more obvious alcoholism symptoms – we’ve seen her passed out in a pile of bottles, for example, she seems far more willing to give up the booze than Billie.
She was literally trying to drink herself to death and definitely had withdrawal symptoms when she stopped, but she did stop that first time. And she seems willing to do so again now.
She’s physically addicted, but may not be really alcoholic. Unlike Billie, who didn’t even try the first time and reacts like this to the slightest suggestion of getting rid of booze.
Agreed. That third panel was the first time the notion that Billie is an alcoholic really cemented in my mind. Before, I thought she enjoyed alcohol a bit too much, but she didn’t really seem addicted to me now. But her freaking out… Yeah, that’s what addiction is like.
Ruth’s always been far more aware she has a problem and is on a destructive road. Billie on the other hand lives in denile city and while she occasionally has been forced to acknowledge her problem is quick to build up her newest habits into being okay.
Everything’s fine. I don’t have depression or a drinking problem anymore because I have love and a purpose and have already had a major personal growth moment. La de la.
And it’s what’s most concerning about their relationship. How they use it to paper over the most pressing psychological problems rather than using the little oxycontin surge to be able to start honestly looking at some of their self-destructive behaviors and where they are leading.
Ruth, by definition, is an alcoholic. You’re right that she seems to at least be capable of putting an effort into stopping, though then again she later admitted that she was just holding on until Billie gave up on her so she could die.
I think the difference is that while they’re both alcoholics, Ruth considers her drinking a problem, while Billie doesn’t. Ruth hates herself for drinking because she knows it’s making things worse and the whole deal with her parents, while Billie doesn’t mind drinking at all. Even when Billie tries to get Ruth to stop because she can recognize that it’s very damaging to Ruth, Billie does so haphazardly because she doesn’t really seem to think that that the alcohol is the problem (this is her general attitude; see also Joyce’s dorm party).
I’d phrase it more as “Billie’s problem is alcoholism”, “Ruth’s problem is depression, which drives her alcoholism.” She’s self-medicating for depression. As far as we know, Billie’s just drinking.
That Billie doesn’t recognize the problem and Ruth does is true, but it’s secondary. Deal with the depression and I think Ruth wouldn’t have much trouble with the alcoholism – beyond getting through the physical withdrawal symptoms. Of course, dealing with the depression is not trivial in itself.
Well, if we’re going to be specific… Ruth’s problem is depression, which drives her alcoholism. Billie’s problem is alcoholism, which probably doesn’t help much with her self esteem issues. We’ve already seen her drink heavily when emotionally upset.
The other side of Ruth though is that while she recognizes the alcohol as a problem and has shown herself willing to stop, she doesn’t seem to be able to do the same for the depression.
What Ruth is doing there in panel 1 – that’s anxiety cleaning. I’ve seen that in my house. You’re worried about something, and you see a mess that needs to be cleaned up, so you start cleaning it up but then you see another mess so you start on that but then you see another mess and another and another and your house is a pig sty and it keeps getting worse and worse and then you’re on your knees weeping because your life is falling apart
*deep breath*
The messes are not the problem. The original worry is the problem. Talk to her, Billie. Get her to tell you what’s wrong. Don’t get distracted by the messes.
Yup.
Ya pay Mike (in nickles) to get rid of Mary. Problem solved
dang it Mary’s ‘purity’ is ruining everything! please someone get some dirt on her and QUICK.
Or just say “Mary committed a hate crime and needs to be removed from the dorm for Carla’s safety.”
You can tell our esteemed bard is young. When you get older, bending over like that is mandatory. Bending your knees isn’t acceptable when they don’t work. Here’s a little advice I heard years ago that I’d like to pass along to the younger folks here: “Be kind to your knees, you’ll miss them when they’re gone.”
Am I the ONLY one who thinks Billie and Ruth should break up anyway? Their relationship is fucked up.
Yes, you are.
You are definitely the only person out of the tens of thousands of people reading DoA who think that.
Get a load of this guy.
… Why are you responding this way to someone who agrees with you?
No, but you’re the ONLY one who made it clear they didn’t read the other comments.
Oh no. Your girlfriend is actually obeying the rules about alcohol and sleeping with the people under her care.
How inconvenient.
Hey you! Reader! It’s okay. You made it through all the Ruth hate to get down to the bottom of the page. You’re safe now.
Do you need a hug?
Ruth is hated for bad things she’s actually done. It’s not remotely equivalent to the shit characters like Sal, Becky, Roz and Dorothy get for crimes like “not being contrite enough.”
The level to which people engage in this dichotomic, black-and-white thinking wherein things Ruths actions permanently marks her as a horrible, irredeemable person can get a little grating, though.
Because she kinda sorta did tons of horrible shit.
She kinda did. I’d say Ruth is mostly broken rather than horrible. Ruth can be fixed and then the horrible behavior will stop.
Well, by fixed, I really mean get treatment for depression, which is from this stage a long difficult process, but still.
Ruth should probably be held accountable for the horrible behaviour she’s already done. A personal redemption arc doesn’t expunge her abuse from history.
Held accountable?
Where I come from, even if someone tried to drag her in court for her behaviour and succeeded in proving her guilty, there would be such a thing as extenuating circumstances, because, you know, alcoholism and depression are mental issues important enough that her sentence would probably only be to get therapy and perhaps some community service.
We’re very, very far from “un-expungeable”.
And if you don’t believe in those human values, then it’s your issue.
Right, I forgot attempted blackmail, physical assault, theft, harassment, and actual fucking sexual assault doesn’t count anymore because Ruth has issues. It’s okay to be an abuser as long as your reason’s good enough.
Fuck that. Ruth’s got shit on her plate and she deserves to get better, but it doesn’t fucking go away. Jail? Fuck if I know, she probably deserves it alone for sexually assaulting Billie but sure whatever, let’s pretend that depression is a fucking get out of jail free card, why the fuck should she still be allowed to do her job when her addictions and mental illness are not only interfering with actually doing it, but she’s also abusing her authority to cause harm? Does Ruth get a by for that? Can I fuck up and get away with it now because I’m on medication?
The vast majority of that was against Billie, though you could argue harassment and assault in the form of threats against the other residents. If Billie wants to press charges, I’m completely behind her. Without that, there wouldn’t be a court in the world that would convict her of a thing.
She could probably get fired, most likely wind up out of school and pretty much screwed for life, if I’m reading the hints at her backstory right. Even the shortest jail sentence would certainly do the same.
But then I was never much for punishment. It’s necessary as a deterrent and for separating people who are still doing damage. Beyond that, the current US system mostly just screws people up beyond recovery and puts huge barriers in their already difficult path when they get out. Rehabilitation should be the goal. If people actually change, then punishing them for what they did is really kind of pointless. In the real world of course it’s also hard to know if they really have changed.
And I think, from what we’ve seen of her, if her worst issues got dealt with, Ruth would actually be a pretty good RA. We’ve seen her try to care and try to help, even from her depression. Physically confronting Blaine was far above and beyond the call, for example.
Currently, she certainly shouldn’t be an RA, I’m certainly down with that.
I am actually getting genuinely angry from all of this (not you, I mean), so I’m just gonna try and calmly say this and fuck off for the rest of the night before I make anything worse.
It would be nice for Ruth to get better. It would be nice if she confronted her problems and started healthily dealing with, and shit, if she flipped out sometime, well, whatever. It happens. I’m more willing to give some string to people who suffer from illnesses like this as long as they make an effort. All that said, I genuinely could not give any less of a fuck if she didn’t, because it’s not the responsibility of abuse victims to pick up their abuser’s pieces.
She doesn’t deserve her job. She has failed at every aspect of her job five times over before we even get into her abusing Billie. She needs to be removed from any form of authority and be gently assisted into getting help that will teach her how to cope with her depression and alcoholism, and hopefully overcome it without causing any more harm than she already has.
That much I certainly agree with.
You’re not really going to convince me that the dichotomic, black-and-white thinking that marks a character as a horrible, irredeemable person is righteous because that character “sorta did tons of horrible shit”. When I complain about this, it’s because I find it grating how people seem to regard her character as being ultimately nothing but a bully, and insist on stressing this again and again, to the point where it seems like characters aren’t allowed to improve.
Lash out in a stupid way because you’re super depressed and trapped in a downwards spiral of substance abuse where the only emotion you can feel is anger? Irredeemable.
“Lashing out” is an understatement.
When she started harassing and assaulting Billie out of a misplaced grudge, up to the point where she threw her into a wall and fucking jammed her tongue down her throat, well, I’m kind of overflowing with indifference as to why she does it. I’m more concerned with the people who suffer from the Ruths of the world.
“Lashing out” is an understatement and pretty fucking insensitive to real people who suffer from the Ruths of the world’s “lashing out”. If she was just kind of an asshole then sure, whatever. People are assholes sometimes and suffering from a mental illness and an addiction puts you in a position where you are going to suffer from the worst effects of it more often, but Ruth? Fuck Ruth. Ruth needs to face the fucking consequences of her actions.
Not unless suffering from depression suddenly means I get to do whatever the fuck I want to whoever I want without consequence. Wish someone told me about that because I would have cashed that shit in years ago. It’s good to know that all personal agency and responsibility goes out the fucking window because I have issues.
You might just be the one lashing out, here.
Can’t possibly image why a bunch of folks trying to tell me “nuh uh its okay for ruth to be an abuser she has issues” might rub me the wrong way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It seems like you enjoy reading things the way you want to read them so you can react the way you want to react, so I’ll just remove myself from this simulacre of a conversation.
Then what were you trying to say? What about what I said was even remotely incorrect?
For god’s sake, it is possible to acknowledge Ruth’s abuse without thinking it makes her some irredeemable monster, but that doesn’t fucking excuse it. Abuse doesn’t go away because the abuser goes “oh golly maybe this is kinda fucked up!” Why the fuck are we treating mental illness like a get out of jail free card when all it does is stigmatize actual, real life sufferers of these illnesses?
Ruth does not just “lash out”. Ruth waged a campaign of harassment against someone who didn’t fucking do anything, but it’s okay because she has reasons. Where’s the fucking logic in that?
She wasn’t harassing Billie out a misplaced grudge, but out of an attraction she didn’t know how to handle. That doesn’t actually make it any better, but it’s pretty clear in retrospect that’s what was going on.
I agree with you completely but more importantly I hope you’re doing ok
Goddamn it, I just told the reader they were okay now! You were not supposed to put MORE Ruth hate under that comment!
Does being an RA pay well? Like, better than working at Chick fil A?
I don’t actually know anything, but I suspect it “pays” only in free or reduced rent and/or tuition.
Given the cost of room & board or tuition, that likely means it pays better than Chick-fil-a. Especially given the hours you actually wind up working.
You’re basically on call most of the time, but you can still spend a ton of that time doing homework or whatever.
In my experience, that’s basically all it pays, yeah. It usually covers half the cost of your rent, or, if you’re lucky, covers it completely.
I’m pretty sure there was a little of both. Ruth harasses Billie as a proxy of her parent’s killer. Ruth harasses Billie as a proxy for alcoholic self. Ruth is angry with everyone because anger is one of the few ways she can feel anything. Ruth harasses Billie because she confuses attraction with anger because anger is all she’s felt for a long, long while.
This was one of those things that clicked for me about Ruth when the strip revealed she was depressed. It was something I recognized from my own depression; a desperate need to feel something other than depressed, and seeking out anger to accomplish this.
Did they even get a chance to use the strap on? 🙁
Can’t they just transfer Billy to a new dorm and then have a relationship officially?
There shouldn’t be any problems with them having a relationship right now, but I can some colleges differ than others.
The only problem I see is all the fucking booze. Jeez that’s a lot of booze.
Or… You could try to transfer to a different dorm, thus making your relationship no longer an issue.