I don’t think he’ll be able to add more nesting NinthShader, on a smaller screen there might not be enough room. I doubt they could make it work, even if it would peas the masses…
Her full plate is less a function of the conversation itself (or food proximity issues) than the fact that Becky doesn’t stop talking to eat, and basically inhaled the whole plate. The whole family has barely touched theirs.
I’m still sad that he showed Dina back at IU a couple strips back. Ruined my head canon that she’d come along on the trip without anyone noticing and was just behind the door all the time.
Wait so… we have a nonmagical alternate universe of a comic where they’re all fighting aliens… and then you made an alternate universe of this one where they’re all fighting aliens?
It actually explains in the text under the last picture: They’re made in the character customization in XCOM 2. Which I should read up on and find out what it’s like because people seem really eager about it (I’m sorry I haven’t played XCOM guys)
Yeah, I had to try after seeing Becky’s hair (but reversed, ARGH)
Walky turned out… not Walky at all, and Jason (the only one I’d actually expect to hold a gun) really doesn’t look it without the bowtie (not an option)
anyway, XCOM is a great game if you enjoy turn-based strategy–easily the best of the genre
Maybe Hank will continue his streak of being super awesome and make a stop at Becky’s house on the way back to IU so she can get her things. Particularly really important stuff like a social security card or birth certificate that will really help her moving forward.
Frankly her father has probably paid a large portion of the mortgage over the years. meaning that with her father in Jail, or at least soon going to trial, she acts as inheritor of the estate.
if she sells the house, she’ll basically get back what the bank has already been paid. depending on the size of house, and how much land on the property, average houses costing about $500,000 she’d stand to receive at least $50,000 to $250,000 depending on how much is left on the mortgage, which would more than cover a decent education. she could sell or auction any belongings in the house. he probably has a decent Gun collection that could easily be worth $5,000 to 15,000.
if her father had more than one vehicle, she can sell those, or keep one to drive. and she can always get a life insurance policy on her father, in case he dies in jail or some shit. not to mention what she stands to be awarded by the courts after her father is charged in court. which could be a few million dollars for mental anguish and suffering.
if she keeps her head on straight and plays her cards right, she could be set for years.
she’ll be a very rich girl.
But her father is in jail, not dead. It’s soon enough still that I doubt he’s even in prison or been sentenced.
I can’t imagine it’s legal for her to just sell the house and all his belongings, when theoretically he could be coming home soon (innocent until proven guilty and all. Until he’s seen a judge and been sentenced, he’s not guilty yet).
Ross is still alive, though. Becky wouldn’t be entitled to any of his assets until he passes.
I am not a lawyer, but the way I interpret IC 35-42-3-2, he comitted kidnapping with a deadly weapon, a Class 3 felony that carries a 9 year sentence on average. While he’s incarcerated, he’s still responsible for his mortgage and other bills. They’ll continue to be paid until he runs out of money. If the house isn’t paid off by then (and the rest of the congregation doesn’t crowdsource the payments for him), the foreclosure process will finally begin.
Also remember he hasn’t even gone to trial yet. This is dinner on Friday, Toedadpocalypse was this past Monday.
We’re probably a comic-time year out from the McIntyre house being foreclosed upon.
Unless of course it was already in the process of being foreclosed on prior to the comic taking place for reasons beyond Ross being arrested and likely sent to jail.
Kind of in line with the subtext I’ve been picking up on Lil’ Rossie. I think he’s been out of work for quite a while and has been shifting the blame to his wife and daughter, rather than focusing his energy on what he was going to do about making ends meet like a *real* man of the house.
Something tells me Becky’s Mother got sick of carrying him in every way save financially and getting not a hint of gratitude in return.
That’s an interesting angle. If Becky’s mom passed after a long battle with illness, the medical bills would be formidable if he didn’t have a good job with good health benefits. Ross doesn’t strike me as the type to have embraced the Affordable Care Act either.
Oh! Nice point. I hadn’t thought of that. I considered that Toehead was a devout follower of Dave Ramsey (https://goo.gl/1c7b64) and probably considers living debt free to be a basic tennent of his life. A reason to live in Indiana where you can buy a 3bd 2bth for less than 60K (Look at this lovely home! http://goo.gl/UfuuOL)
With that thought I figured he had the house paid off and way working on his prepper cabin in the wilds of Wisconsin/Minnesota/Michigan, with a shipping container bunker and all his money in gold and guns.
At worst I figured he might not want to pay his prop taxes (or ANY taxes) after the home is paid off. The place could be in foreclosure for something like that, water waste fees, garbage collection, etc. A bunch of stuff that isn’t “fair” when you pay it, but is bullshit when it’s not working right.
…. on the other hand, if Ross wasn’t given bail (quite possible given his crime), and if Becky moved in, she could claim squatter’s rights like crazy when the bank finally DID foreclose.
Sadly, probably not. After all, this will definitely be a criminal case and criminal cases only award jail time, not damages. She could try to sue the campus or her old Church for monetary damages, but it’d be very hard to prove and I don’t think Becky’s the type to do that.
So, Becky’s going to be rather shit out of luck, largely because Reltzik is likely right with Toedad probably arranging a sale of his property before he goes to jail and loses it to the bank and to also make sure Becky doesn’t see a single penny.
He could also arrange for it to be rented out and for someone to manage it while he’s away.
Whether Ross has the foresight for that, I don’t know. Nor does it really matter. Becky doesn’t get the house, barring him dying in jail or some such.
She could theoretically sue her father for damages, based on the incident. It’s not without precedent. However, it’s quite likely that his legal defenses (both criminal and civil) will devour any liquid assets he has remaining, and possibly force him to re-mortgage the house up to the absolute limit, with that money also being fed into the legal defense. By the time Becky got a ruling (likely after Joyce graduates), there’d be a few crumbs left for her to pick over. Better just to write it off and move on.
Really, her best bet would be to get a legal emancipation from her father, giving her no right to the house, and then use THAT to clarify her status with the school aid offices.
I’m pretty sure it’s waaaaaaaaaay more than just kidnapping with a deadly weapon. I can think of several other things that happened during that.
(Disclaimer: I’m far less of a lawyer, so any of these could easily be wrong.)
– Discharging a weapon in a public place/college grounds (or whatever you would call that)
– Assault (striking Becky in the car)
– Attempted Murder (when he clearly aimed and fired his weapon at Amber, but for that one to come up the driver of the red car would have to testify because Amber isn’t gonna.)
– Reckless Endangerment (for the whole car crash fiasco, possibly Attempted Manslaughter too when Amber was thrown from the car.)
Those add up, so as long as the right people come forward, he could be put away for much longer than nine years.
Either way, there’s gonna be a lot of time spent in court for all involved.
I’m stopped at “Average houses being around $500k”.
Where do -you- live?
Around me, it’d be easy enough to get a 1400 sq. foot place for about $120k and a nice house could run low to mid $300k. $500k here would be a McMansion.
In San Francisco, $120k will get you a nicer box on the side of the road, and $500k would have a roof on it. YMMV.
Oh, man, don’t look at the housing prices in Vancouver, BC. Depressing. My 800 square foot piece of shit in the Interior of BC we paid $65k for would *start* at two mil down there, possibly more, depending on location and lot size.
Ethan, where I live, I just bought an old 1900sqft house. I paid 400k. The bank said it is worth 420k. That is SUPER cheap for around here. Though I live in the US in one of the most expensive areas possible.
“In San Francisco, $120k will get you a nicer box on the side of the road.”
This. When I was in college at SFSU, I paid ~$900 a month not including utilities to share a room in a two bedroom apartment, that had no neen refinished so it was cheaper (paint chipping, burnt carpet, mold problems, no dishwasher, hot water went out super fast, etc).
Now I live in west Michigan, and I pay $700 including utilities for my own really well kept apartment~
Honestly, I took Becky’s comment merely as an indication that she has no intention of getting involved in any of Toedad’s affairs. She will make no attempt to try and save the house and only cares because the university will take her father’s money into account when judging her for assistance.
For a Decepticon to admit something must be horrifying, it MUST be pretty bad. Don’t get it myself, maybe I miss a Human culture reference? Hang on, Daniel the Human wants me to watch something called “Stephen King’s It”. Eh, fair enough, see how this goes…
You know what I like to wish on horrible characters: That for just a few seconds, they will suddenly realize just how gruesome they are. They will feel the pain their words and actions have inflicted on other people (and they will also have to realize that said other people are in fact just that: People). They will truly understand the real consequences on how they affect their surroundings.
It is both the most horrible and the most humane thing I could wish on them.
but then the author would need to create more horrible characters to take the place of the redeemed horrible character that learned how horrible they are.
I wish that on horrible people irl. Like the people who delight in doing things like sending death wishes and terrible threats on anon. If only they saw themselves for what they really are, maybe they’d grow as people.
That’s been a general wish for me for everyone who has caused more pain than joy in their lives. To truly, genuinely understand that pain, and how deep it goes.
It’s honestly the closest thing to “justice” I can imagine, and it would have the potential to do genuine good.
That’s why I love the concept of karma. Not just in a ‘what goes around comes around’ sense. More specifically, however your actions affect another, for better or for worse, someday, somewhere, you will be made to understand how that feels. Life plays the long game on that one. Trust me.
Actually, a fitting punishment would be to stick Amber’s Dad, Toedad, and Faz all in the same solitary confinement cell, with the Dad’s in straightjackets. Although I’m sure that violate the cruel and unusual punishment laws somewhere.
I like Faz. Sorta’ like an old pillow. Sure it may get lumpy and smell a bit, but throw it in the washer and put that sucker on spin and it’ll be good as new.
How about “Life is about 3 things. GETTIN’ MONEY, GETTIN’ PUSSY, AND THE DEWEY DECIMAL SYSTEM” or “I’m your father and I really like your art, son” *cries*
Honestly, I really like Faz! In a endearingly pitiful sort of way. (Although I know I would cease to be amused by him if the strip ever pretended his creepiness was anything other than horribly misguided and extremely creepy.)
Actually, I didn’t really think of it at first, but back at family reunion day Blaine left Faz, who I’m pretty sure is around 15 in this continuity, alone at campus with people he had done everything to antagonize (and who Faz did his own best to antagonize following daddy’s example). That’s a colossal dick move.
Fudge it, Blaine. Ross beat you to the worst-father award fair and square. It’s no use try to cram in extra awful to get it back.
I always found myself somewhat endeared by Faz. Maybe it’s just his unchanging face and his weird way of speaking but Faz always struck me as the kind of guy who’s sheltered and has no real understanding of people.Like a Dina who instead of throwing herself into dinosaur books threw himself into cheesey pick-up artist books and low grade pornos.
Yeah, I think that is a pretty apt description. And where Dina’s parents share her quirks and are supportive, Faz father is Blaine and… share some of his quirks. None of them good.
Willis has mentioned before that he was disappointed he never had Amber confront Blaine in Shortpacked! Im disappointed Faz never killed him, I mean that would have been fucking awesome. I mean, Blaine was partly responsible for the creation of a monster (in a sense), it would be delightfully ironic if that monster was what killed him in the end.
I dunno, you kind of have to be good at conversations to answer and deflect that gracefully. I’d say if the scientist thing didn’t work out, she could probably do well for herself as a PR rep.
Plus, can’t you just imagine the Beckyism potential there?
Becky: “OK, the most important part about this campaign is that it has to be rad.”
Staff person1: “Er… doesn’t this new direction go against… you know… our platform?”
Staff person2: “We have to be ‘rad’ to reach the youths. Honestly, I have no idea of what she’s talking about.”
Riley: “Do you want more cereals?”
Becky: “You betcha!”
Hey, what a shock, Miss Brown continues to be an incredibly terrible person. She may not be the one chasing a child with a loaded gun, but she and people like her are the reason toedad felt absolutely secure in the righteousness of his kidnapping and threatened murder.
she and people like her are the reason toedad felt absolutely secure in the righteousness of his kidnapping and threatened murder.
Thiiiis this this this. This is why I’m so weary of all the “good Christians” around me. I don’t care if YOU didn’t [shoot up the Planned Parenthood/shun your gay kid/whatever] — if it was your [‘baby killer’ rhetoric/homophobic screeching/whatever] that convinced someone to, you’re severely implicit.
It supports your armchair psychology! Joyce crosses the panel to Becky, Hank crosses the panel to Carol. Hank occupied his own frame, Joyce occupies her own frame. It sort of showcases not just the extremes of the characters )Becky and Carol finishing and ending the strip like values on a rating scale) but also seems to put Hank and Joyce on a continuum of where they fall in this conversation and the positions they’ve evolved with personal growth.
Yeah, that analogy sort of puts Hank far on his lonesome in terms of progress, but I figure he isn’t nearly as open as Joyce is now. He still changed his “is” to “was ” when he was about to say “Becky is a good kid”, but he seems to be taking the Christian route of swallowing his judgement and thinking before talking, and approaching the situation with love for both girls. So he occupies his own panel, close to Carol but not wholly with Carol (if Becky recanted her sexuality at this point, I’m pretty sure Hank would greet it with open relief, even though he isn’t antagonising her here, whereas Joyce at this stage might actually not be relieved so much as more confused and slightly hostile/suspicious of a 180 like that).
Note that I’m not pushing this as a probability for the storyline, just as an example of of disparate rxns to an unlikely scenario in order to illustrate the point (SOMEone would misread it without the disclaimer)
Honestly, I had been wondering about this. Unless it’s a short sale (which it could be, I dunno, housing bubble aftereffects?) would the prison situation enable her to get some of that sales dosh she can use as a deposit on an apartment or something? I don’t see a direct route to doing that unless Indiana has some sort of victim compensation law, but – does it?
^ This and this. The house is guaranteed to be only in Toedad’s name, because he’s not the type to believe in women owning property. He’s the only one who sees any money from a sale unless the bank forecloses, in which case the bank sees the money and sticks him with a bill if they don’t manage to sell it for what’s owed on it. Becky is way better off when it comes to financial aid not having a dime to her name or a roof over her head – she’s more likely to get aid that covers both tuition and housing, and she’d be more eligible for any campus services the university has for poor and/or homeless students. (I don’t know about most campuses; mine had resources for both, including food pantry and housing resources.)
Not to defend Becky’s dad in any way, but I’d say that the house is likely only in his name because Becky is his child, not his spouse or roommate or something. Children usually don’t own a part of their parents’ house (unless that’s different in the US, but I doubt it), regardless of whether those parents believe in women owning property.
I would presume that the sale of Toedad’s assets would go into his legal costs. I don’t know how an “estate” works if the person is not dead, but simply in prison for the foreseeable future.
It works exactly the same as if he was not in prison, except it’s a little trickier for him to be on hand to do things like maintenance and signing papers and placing ads in newspapers. Some of that he’ll now have to do by mail from his jail cell and some of that he might need to get a real-estate agent for.
… it’s quite possible that he’s underwater, depending on how high his late wife’s medical bills got.
When asking yourself “what would Jesus do?,” always remember that flipping tables and chasing people out of the building with a bullwhip is within the realm of possibility.
Almost the only way they will last through dinner is if Becky eats in silence, Carol and Joyce glare at each other and Hank talks nonstop about fishing or something.
Totes. Also, that wouldn’t even help. Carol started off from minute one with the passive-aggression and Becky didn’t rise to it, and now she’s escalating on her own. Even if Becky was to suffer in silence, it would still mean Carol would rant at her and Joyce would get pissed.
So, it wouldn’t have helped and on top of that, I’ve been there with the suffering ignorance in silence thing in order to be a “peace-keeper” and “salvage the evening”, it’s not terribly fun.
Joyce is on countdown, but doubt she’s going to make it to 10. Because yeah, her mother is going to keep up the crap.
As for Becky, great answer, Carol didn’t like that one at all. Taste of reality sweetie? Fine for you to set on your ass and preach, but the child across the table from you is living the results of dear Toedaddy’s actions.
And doing just fine so far.
Are you kidding? Joyce is going to get angry and repress saying anything for months and just come to hate her mom and her background in wordless fuming silence.
THIS. If there’s one thing that is consistent with growing up Christian, is that you respect your parents, ESPECIALLY in public or with company. The worst Joyce will do is leave early.
I’m not so sure about that. Joyce is on the edge and pretty close to the snapping point. She won’t be able to do the deflection and passively stand up for herself thing Becky’s doing here. But there’s a point past which she won’t let Becky take it either.
When she can’t repress it anymore, she’ll go loud and offensive. Joyce has a temper. Nor is this public or with company. Becky’s family and she’ll fight for her.
Joyce has already fired the shots that started this war, and neither Carol nor Joyce has forgotten that. Joyce will speak her mind (again) before this dinner is done.
THE FORBIDDEN ROMANCE. Carol’s heterosexism is just to keep from confronting… wait no stahp westermark effect no. Nope nope nope nope nope nope. NOOOOOOOOPE. Nope.
Given how much Joyce resembles her father, it seems to me we’d have better success of seeing how she may look in 20+ years by looking at any female relatives he has. Sisters, potentially his mother when younger.
Drawing-wise, the only difference between Joyce and her mom is eye color and ahead shape. Likewise the only similarity between Joyce and her father is eye color and head shape. It’s about equal.
^ This. What’s ‘up’ with Carol is her question is a thinly-veiled version of, “Why are you still bothering my daughter and not coming back to settle down in your dad’s house with a good man who will straighten you out and teach you how to be a wife and mother, until your dad gets out of prison and can go back to dictating your life to you?”
Ya here it is the dinner table is all set up, Carol is running her mouth about a subject she should know is way to sensitive right now and Joyce is getting really pissed really quickly.
A great amount of table flipping coming I can feel it.
After being defied by her daughter over the phone, she’s been aggressively shifting the power balance back to herself since Joyce and Becky walked in the door. I can’t wait to see the rug yanked out from under her.
Forgive me my schadenfreude but meddling Christians have done plenty of damage in my life.
macaroni and cheese, aka “kraft dinner,” is Very Much a Thing in canada, as i found out recently. apparently canadians a lot of it, as a country. i thought it was something akin to Hamburger Helper, but no, it’s just macaroni and cheese.
And good question about if Becky would be eligible for victim help program?
I think she should go and get her personal effects out of the house. Maybe stuff belonging to her mother?
Grab what she can and sell it – not legal maybe, but she deserves it. I’m pretty sure Joyce would help her now. But, if she does it she needs to do it at night. Dear Carole would be one of the first to rat her out if she caught her.
Yes, she should be eligible for aid from a domestic violence shelter or program. However, most of them are running on limited resources as it is, so it would probably amount to temporary housing until she finds a job and maybe a couple sets of clothes, some basic toiletries, and the address for the local food pantry. IF she’s lucky, they might have a burn phone she can use for finding a job or contacting emergency services. (I used to donate regularly to our local CASDA office, but there was always way more demand than donations, unfortunately. 🙁 )
The only thing she is legally entitled to in her dad’s house is her Social Security card. She might get away with snitching her birth certificate (if her dad even has a copy), just because any cop who caught her with it probably wouldn’t be a dick about it. (Her parents paid for the copy in their house, so it would be her dad’s, legally. I know, because I had to shell out $25 for a copy of my daughter’s birth certificate when she was born. :p) Any clothing, furniture, jewelry, cash, even food, would have been paid for by her father, so they would legally belong to him.
Also, raiding the house at night is probably not the best idea. ‘Conservative’ neighbors tend to be snoopy neighbors, and they’re likely to call the police if they see anyone entering a house that’s supposed to be empty now that the owner is in prison.
While that might be true to the letter of the law, without Ross there to forbid it, surely the cops wouldn’t stop her taking things like her own clothes and personal possessions. Maybe not the TV, though, that’s a bit too loot-y.
Depends on how much they identify with what Toedad was trying to do. Even if the real cops were forgiving, I can guarantee what passes for Neighborhood Watch will make themselves a plenty nuisance about any attempt to remove a large amount of personal possessions. And this is all presuming the Church isn’t already over there securing things for Toedad.
Well, merely paying for it wouldn’t make Becky’s stuff legally Ross’s.
She most likely still owns her clothing and such. Unless he’s operating under some bizzare Fundamentalist thing where he’s explicitly loaning her clothing that he retains ownership of, those are gifts and they belong to her.
I dunno about American, but under Ukrainian law – that we studied at school – personal things that parents bought for their children explicitly legally belong to children. Doesn’t matter who paid for it: if they bought it FOR you, it’s yours.
Birth certificate, whatever other documents there are, clothes, books, toys, electronics, whatever. As long as it’s yours in the house, it’s yours in the court.
Strictly speaking, even the clothes she retrieved from Anderson would fall in the same category as any of her personal effects in the house. It’s not at all clear to me that clothes and other personal things necessarily belong to the parent, not the adult child – regardless of who paid for them. Some, like Christmas and birthday presents, were explicitly gifts. Others she may have bought herself if she ever had any money – even allowance kind of money. And it would be basically impossible at this point to prove what fell in what category. As Luzahn says, under any normal circumstances, a teen’s personal stuff is closer to gifts than to things her parents own but let her use.
If there weren’t police keeping her from trespassing at the house and if she doesn’t loot things that obviously weren’t hers, she’s in the clear.
As for the birth certificate, that’s hers. They didn’t buy it, they paid a processing fee. It’s a legal document identifying her. It’s of no use to them. It’s not really a possession.
I totally figured it was mac n cheese for some reason. But what’s the other favorite food?
Also, fuckyeah Becky, fuckyeah Hank, and I’m going to presume based on past actions that Joyce is righteously angry on her best friend’s behalf, so fuckyeah Joyce. And fuckyeah Snoop because who’s a good puppy?
Yes. Less ‘prepared by figuring out exact words’ and more ‘is aware her Other Mom is going to say stupid horrible shit’. Joyce, in contrast, seems less prepared.
What is the deal in this situation? Could Becky sell the house and pocket the money herself or would it go to Toedad? Also I don’t normally condone violence against someone being an a-hole but that third panel smug, sanctimonious innocent crap look shes got going on is really aggravating…
She’s not the owner of the house. If someone was to sell it with Toedad’s permission, the money would likely go to him, albeit with potential restrictions. She could try and loot the house for valuables, but honestly, that first line makes it seem like Toedad’s house is not even in the same city not to mention her old Church is probably already there securing treasured valuables and planning prayer circles for the “martyr”. Which means Sunday is going to be fuuuuuuuuun.
I’d assume Ross’s house is still in La Porte. Or att least not that far away from La Porte. Carol is asking why Becky is sticking around where the university is instead of coming back to La Porte.
What’s more, it’s a topic that the church… congregation? Parishoners? Flock?… have had a week to talk about and the pastor/minister/priest/whatever has had a week to write a sermon about it.
Yup, that Sunday Church scene is going to be brutal and probably even more passive-aggressive than Carol is managing. Becky has the patience of a saint to be agreeing to go through all of this.
Possibly even more aggressive-aggressive. The sermon is going to be all about Ross. And quite possibly all about trying to save Becky, especially if Carol’s let them know she’s coming.
Becky doesn’t own the house, so, unless her father signed it over to her I doubt she could. The housing situation depends on several factors, like how long Toedad is going to prison for, and how much is his Mortgage for, and if he qualifies for some type of assistance.
If he was smart, Toedad should sell the home before it forecloses. Either way, if Becky has anything in there she wants to hold onto, she’d better get it out soon.
Oh man, so much in this one. From Joyce’s death glare, Hank’s futile attempt at peacekeeping and reminding Carol why exactly Joyce is visiting, and Carol just giving no fucks about propriety or humanity, because gosh darnitt, a sin is a sin and she’s got to be seen as pious and ministering about it, instead of just being a decent person and supporting her daughter and the hell she’s been through.
And then Becky. Becky’s got too much patience for this kind of crap and has learned how to be incredibly slick in just rolling with punches like that, flipping it around, and seeking to disarm. We’ve got a chilling idea of what daily life must have been like with Mr. Everything is a Direct Challenge to my Authority and God.
And the thing is, she’s good at this. She’s great at navigating these awful spaces, but I know from experience that this has to be eating her up like rats in her chest to just swallow that hate and still play nice (because if you fight back, then you’re the real villain).
I don’t know if she fully prepared for how incredibly awful this weekend is going to be for her.
I suspect that she sees anything that isn’t threatening her life as an improvement. I think that’s part of why Becky is so chill while Joyce has a hard time — Becky has already weathered the worst hostility, while Joyce faces hatred for the first time. Although it probably has more to do with their innate temperaments. Becky is just magnificently resilient.
Yep. She’s handling herself pretty well given the circumstances are, in spite of being basically the best possible scenario for a homeless gay teen, STILL MASSIVELY AWFUL because she is still a homeless gay teen.
Not that I’m in any way siding with toemom here, but getting the last word and then effectively saying “but anyway, let’s just all move on” isn’t really deescalation.
When you’ve got a family member entirely focused in attacking you for your identity and making that into a fight, politely answering a fucked up question calmly and with facts and then changing the subject can be absolutely the only way to deescalate things and stop the runaway train of abuse.
Anyone else imagine Cerberus IRL as a giant three headed dog, but with Roz heads instead, constantly giving constructive feedback and comments instead of barking?
If you don’t engage in some sort of verbal self-defense, other people at the table will blame you for not standing up for yourself. If you engage in too vigorous verbal self-defense (if you lose your temper and yell, frex), others will blame you for “sass” or “disrespect” if the person outranks you or just blame you for “ruining the evening” if they don’t outrank you. It’s a very fine line to walk that I’ve never been good at walking. But it’s a matter of recruiting help from bystanders by making it obvious what’s going on is hurtful to you and wrong but without acting out in a way that makes it easy to victim-blame you as “giving as good as you get” or whatever, or without seeming like a pushover who deserves it because why won’t you stand up for yourself, it it bugs you that much. At the same time, you can’t make it too obvious that you’re seeking backup, because people tend to react poorly to a person who’s directly asking to be saved from someone bullying them, because they think you’re “making them choose sides” and “being unfair” to them or whatever. I am shite at it, but I know how it goes when it works.
It’s a very hard and emotionally trying line to walk, and Becky is so practiced at it, I feel a lot of sympathy for her because I can tell she’s had to do it a lot. Probably since before her mom died.
Thats what always bugged me about fundie types, the rank hypocrisy. I’ve had conversations with fundies where I’ve explained my view things like relationships and such like and my view is if you’re single and its consensual then bang whoever you like whenever you like its all good but if you’re in a relationship you’re monogamous simple as that, you wanna bang someone else then you break up with your current
Yet the amount of fundies that’ve tut-tutted that attitude yet turns out they’ve cheated on past boyfriends/girlsfriends is really high
Not to mention the family values politicians and high profile ministers that’ve been lead astray
it’s a bit of cognitive dissonance for me considering they both count themselves as devout christians, but my dad and stepmom were committing adultery together for quite a while before she was able to divorce her ex-husband, wait the requisite six months, and marry my dad. they even did the whole “living in sin” thing.
(not that i fault them for any of that, the ex wasn’t exactly a prize. paranoid meth addict who planted cameras around his house, etc. it’s just the picking and choosing which church laws to follow while disregarding certain fundamentals like staying faithful to even one’s shit-spouse that seems a little weird to me.)
Followed by the shock revelation that BOTH Joyce and Becky are actually Carols daughters by Toedad, thus driving a wedge between Joyce and Hank, deepening Joyces trauma about being theatened by Toedad (now actual dad), and causing Hank to retreat into a bitter period of alcohol and repressed anger/shame. Not to mention what this puts Becky through when she realises she’s been crushing on her sister all this time.
Oh wait. This is DOA, not Days of our lives. Disregard. 🙂
Yeah, Joyce is DEFINITELY Hank’s kid. My dad and I look about as much alike, and used to even more when I was younger — Mom always said if she hadn’t carried me she wouldn’t know I was hers.
Normally I’d call that a legitimate question from Carol, but between the greeting Becky got from her and the reactions from Hank and Joyce, I kinda doubt it was said in a genuinely friendly manner.
Agreed. It’s something the commenters have been wondering, too, but from the timing and the other characters’ reactions, I think it came out very much like “So, when are you leaving? How about very soon.”
Subtext matters. Carol’s concern is “When will you go away and stop corrupting my family?” The one of the commenters here is concern for Becky’s welfare, because she needs her vital papers and personal property.
It’s in the phrasing. Someone who was genuinely concerned about Becky and her living arrangements would have phrased it something along the lines of, “So what’s your plans? Are you going to live at your dad’s place, or is that too trying?” or “How are you getting along? Do you have a safe place to stay arranged?” or “Do you need help making arrangements? I can’t imagine the university is going to let you stay there much longer. I can help you look for a place.” or whatever.
Carol’s phrasing makes it very clear her primary concern is in getting Becky away from Joyce.
And even that’s a long way removed from “You’ve always been practically like another daughter to us. You’re welcome here anytime, if you need a place to stay.”
Which is the only acceptable response in this situation.
Ah yes … “Jus’sayin'” The phrase which, along with its variants, is a reliable indicator that the immediately preceding utterance should earn the utterer a face-first trip into an unflushed toilet bowl.
Actually she’s been kind of on the ball as far as trying to get a new life going. She’s hit a lot of “oh hey I didn’t know that’s how the world works” snags but she was job-hunting from her first day in Bloomington. I think she compensates for her lack of organization with sheer raw energy.
Definitely this. Not to mention she’s scary good at crisis management. Like, when she’s got 3 and a half seconds to come up with a plan or else, she’s been incredibly on the ball. Her slick 911 call and distraction with Toedad in the car. Her splitting up plan for escaping Toedad. Getting herself out of Anderson and on a bus to Joyce when she was being dragged away the first time. Her sacrifice at the fountain. Her insta-pack when it turned out Hank was super early.
She’s good in the “go, go, go” moments and this is definitely one of those.
Speaking as a person with executive function issues: A lot of us find stimulants like adrenaline helpful in finding organization and overcoming the inertia associated with executive function issues. I read Becky as having some type of executive dysfunction (maiiinly because she reminds me a lot of folks I know with ADHD), and the whole, “Seems like a scattered flake most of the time but actually scary good at crisis management and seems to thrive when their life is a series of crises and then falls apart again the moment things calm down” is pretty typical of most folks I know with EF issues (me included).
I honestly don’t even think Becky’s being malicious here. This is a legitimate line of reasoning. Like, yeah, there’s no point in living in a house I can’t afford, especially considering I plan on simply enrolling in IU as soon as possible. And there’d be no point in her staying in that house unless she had lighting, gas, electricity, etc. all prepaid for her like it is at a dorm, then there’s no point in her staying there at all really. If I were Becky I’d try to find one of the Shelters that Leslie was talking about and stay there until I can get enrolled in school.
Yeah, it’s totally what she can do. Staying there would separate her from her support network and put her at risk of being taken away to a Reparative Therapy Camp and besides, she’d have to jump ship in maximum 2 months as lights, power, and water started getting shut off.
It really is best for her that the place goes under and she can use that fact in her FAFSA paperwork. Luckily her dad’s income is also about to crater into the toilet so that will be in her favor as well (parent’s income can still be used against homeless youth, even if said youth are disowned).
Honestly, she’s got her head on her shoulders as to digging herself out of her hole and getting into education to be a scientist. It’s just a matter of adapting on the fly as needed as things continue to be massively unstable in the short term.
She does need to start talking to the University’s financial aid people soonest. While normally the parent’s income counts, there are things they can do in extreme situations and I think “Father is charged with attempted kidnapping of me. I can’t expect any support. And he has no more income now anyway.” counts.
I don’t know about shelters in Indiana, but here in NY, they are scary bad places to live. I’d rather sleep on a bench. (Hopefully, a woman’s shelter or domestic abuse shelter is safer, I haven’t been to those.)
Shelters also tend to discriminate against queer youth largely because a lot of aid organizations are either religiously defined or are funded by donors with particular views that shelters are afraid of running up against. As such, queer homeless youth tend to be more likely than their peers to end up outside and without aid outside of what they can scramble together.
It’s a large part of why sex work is frequently a major part of queer history, especially for trans women of color, as it was the only industry that would “hire” queer youth and allow them to survive on the streets without any other form of aid (and sadly still is for too much of our population).
Becky would be taking a major gamble in doing that unless Leslie knew some good resources personally (which she may very well do).
The reality is that Bloomington has fewer options for women than men and even then I think most, if not all, are faith based. She could very well get turned away.
Truth be told, I think that when she gets caught the university might put her up in the dorm for the remainder of the semester anyways. There are still people who were refugees from Hurricane Katrina that the university still houses 10 years later.
In my region, our homeless shelters are not run by religious organizations, so they don’t discriminate on that basis, but classism is a real problem in my city so the fucking Mayor and his fucking henchmen and women on City Council literally go out of their goddamn ways to make shit miserable for homeless people and make it impossible for the shelters (which have been operating over maximum intended capacity for years now) to expand. Especially if they’re trying to expand to help the local queer community.
So even when the shelter itself isn’t discriminatory, intentional resource shortages and action by the City might be.
I think it’s both. It’s obviously a VERY uncomfortable topic so she wouldn’t bring it up herself, but it worked nicely as a riposte to Carol’s barb. It reminds her what the stakes actually are and how incredibly petty it is for Carol to sit in her comfortable house and be passive aggressive to a homeless kid.
The fact that it was all true only makes it better.
I’m surprised I haven’t read any comments yet about how Becky is somehow being an ungrateful bongo for declining such wonderful advice or asking for seconds or… something.
If I was Becky, I’d be doing pretty much what she’s doing. Couch surfing with friends is generally better than Shelters, even if you can get into one. Neither is a very stable situation, but the couch surfing is safer.
I would be looking into shelters, in case it came to that. And at other resources in the area. But trying to find a job comes first.
Yeah, there’s pretty solid scriptural precedent for flipping a table when somebody’s using the surrounding building wrong. Temples are for prayer, not money-changing; homes are for hospitality, not victim-blaming.
So does anybody have an opinion on Gray and Grey Morality? Nothing to do with this strip, or maybe it does. I’m under the assumption that Carol hates what she doesn’t want to understand.
Still I feel like it’d be interesting to see the comments section here put their thoughts on Grey and Gray Morality.
i think ideally most stories should be at least a little grey on both sides.
making things black and white is boring. showing an antagonist as sympathetic or understandable doesnt have to mean theyre right after all.
Right? Gonna’ use Gargoyles as an example here, but there’s a point in the series where Macbeth(THE Macbeth), captures the clan and holds them hostage and junk, but doesn’t attack them while they’re stone during the day.
Now this seems like a horrible thing for someone to do, but in the end it turns out he’s just looking for another Gargoyle that he has a very LONG history with, mostly a bad one, and when he finds out that the Clan has nothing to do with her anymore, he lets them go and tries his best to explain why he did that.
It could’ve easily been a “I was scorned by a Gargoyle so all Gargoyles must pay” sorta plot, but it didn’t turn out that way.
Honestly just check out Gargoyles, all of it, it’s a great example of what someone can do with a animated tv series.
Yeah. In real life, people who are jerks tend to just be jerks, no tragic backstory necessary. However, that’s usually not fun to read about, unless it’s contrasted with more cartoony, muahaha, evil for the sake of evil sort of bad guy.
I honestly believe, from a writing standpoint, The more gray your morality is, the more you respect your reader’s ability to form an opinion of a character without spelling out “They’re a bad guy” or “They’re a good guy”. Forces the viewer to form their own opinions on whether they agree with the protagonist or not. Or even if they agree with the antagonist.
I agree that villains should always be complex and interesting, but I don’t think that always manifests as Gray/Grey morality. A clash of ideals where both sides are flawed is fine and dandy but sometimes folks are just giant douchebags.
To use an example you’re really fond of, Dio Brando is a grade A horrible asshole, but you see his downfall and what drives him, and in Stone Ocean we see him actually form a normal relationship with somebody. He never stops being the dog kicking vampire who drops steamrollers onto dudes, except without seeing why he is the man he is today, his genuine bond of brotherly love for Jonathan, and his (possibly romantic) relationship with Pucci, he’d be far less compelling. He needed to be developed without losing his edge.
If yesterday’s comic had been centered on Becky instead of Sal and Billie :
All panels showing Becky, gradually closer up for each frame. All panels showing Becky’s line of thought.
Panel 1: “Oh right, Mrs. Brown, so this this what you want?”
Panel 2: “Well, then, I only have this to say.”
Panel 3: “It.”
Panel 4: “Is.”
Panel 5: “On.”
Not very original, or much of a punchline, but it is now my headcanon, and I’ll stick with it.
Well I think we now know where all of the religious extreme fundamentalist nonsense comes from in this family. I mean Joyce’s dad probably is somewhat fundamentalist, but I think the judgemental “holier than thou” reject all things outside of the bubble of ignorance part is definitely 90% from the mom here.
It’s interesting to see what direction they move in when their beliefs are challenged by their daughter. Hank responds with self-searching and seeking to understand. Carol digs her heels in harder. The two of them growing at different rates and in different directions is well-written and realistic.
I don’t know, if they’re already at this point over accent and/or vocabulary differences, imagine if the conversation turns to politics, religion, or god forbid sports!
I’ve had the worst, most horrifically uncomfortable family dinner over Xmas and this is just bringing up all sorts of traumatic flashbacks to that and just. YES. This is exactly what this kind of situation is like. It just hits really close in a really good, cathartic way. Love this.
And yeah, having been through that sort of shit a lot as well, I can definitely say Willis hit the nail on the head as to how it goes and how it feels. Like, yup, passive-aggressive dig, “just asking questions”, implying wrongdoing just for existing, check check check.
Thank you <3 If my friend hadn't rescued me and took me to see Star Wars the next day, I would have ended up crying for a week in my mom's guest bedroom, because maaaan, it was just SO exhausting. Man, even my only ally at the dinner table ended up turning on me (and he also said some weird racist shit, which is a whole different story), it was the weirdest night ever. Sigh. Families, amirite?
I predict at some point a joke that is very obviously an attack at Becky, with a defense of, “Lighten up, you have no sense of humor.” at some point, too. Cuuuuzyeah. If the passive-aggressive-bordering-on-aggressive jabbing doesn’t work, I’ll be aggressive-aggressive and try to cover it up with humor to provoke you into reacting and then play the victim and pretend it’s all your fault for having “no sense of ha-ha”.
(can you tell I live in a family where if initial passive-aggression doesn’t provoke the desired reaction, they let it lie for a few hours and then move on to “jokes” that aren’t jokes?)
In her eyes, she’s not a victim, she’s gay. Gay people are not victims to her, not matter what, they are sinners, they are doing violence unto God and God-fearing people. And to Carol, Becky has already “destroyed” one family with her hateful gayitude and so Carol is laying down the law that she shall not “destroy” another.
It’s the attitude that gets “good Christians” of Carol’s type of flock to argue against anti-bullying laws because they are “unchristian” and “unfairly malign those who preach God’s love”. It’s the attitude that leads them to fight against anti-discrimination laws for the same reason and to bitterly fight any homeless shelter that doesn’t turn out queer youth onto the streets.
To them, a queer youth, homeless and having faced violence, is not something of pity, but an enemy that is seeking to destroy the world. An enemy that must be stopped at any cost.
And so Carol follows her idea of God. And fights back against Becky’s “bullying” (by existing in her home), by any means necessary outside of physical violence.
It’s a twisted worldview to be sure but I suppose it lets off empathy quite nicely to assume that battered and homeless queer youth are evil-doers that deserve it rather than individuals deserving of mercy, pity, and support.
No, see, everything that’s happened to Becky is her fault. She has sinned against God with her filthy girl-smooching ways, and so bad things happened to her. Really, anyone to whom bad things happen must have done something sinful to deserve it, or otherwise God wouldn’t have let it happen. And of course Becky’s awful sin is the reason her upstanding, godly father was imprisoned for merely trying to bring her back to God.
These people’s answer to the age-old question, “If God is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and so on, why do bad things happen to people who don’t deserve it?” is “They don’t!”
It’s the just-world fallacy in all it’s Calvinist glory. God wouldn’t create an unfair world (the logic goes), therefore those who are wealthy and have easier lives must have gained their success from their inherent goodliness, whereas those who suffer in life must have sinned to deserve their suffering. Thus, the effects of discrimination and hate can be said to be the “natural consequences” of said “sin”, whereas the money that pastors fleece from their flock is proof of how godly they are and how much worthier they are of that social security check.
It’s a twisted little worldview but it sustains a lot of awful in the world.
I agree that this is often what I hear, but the argument always bugs me, because it phrases this as if it’s a choice whether to sin, and it’s just that the “sinner” was weak and morally infirm.
And, like. That just makes me think. They legitimately think that you’re CHOOSING to do this? Like. Are they saying that they also are deeply, meaningfully attracted to people of the same gender, but that they’ve managed to resist this? Or are they saying that HAVING the urge is inherently a moral failing? Because that’s harder to swallow under anything but calvinism.
It’s… ugh, how to explain it. Okay, so basically, in their minds gayness isn’t an orientation, it’s a choice to piss in the face of Christ. In their heads, no one has sexual attraction to the other sex… unless it is so put into another person’s head by vile evil homosexuals seeking to recruit with their sexy Satanic promises of defying one’s in-born gender roles.
So of course, no one is born like that. They are either recruited and become recruiters themselves and must be stopped. They have been targeted, but they’re valiantly fighting off Satan and recommitting themselves to the Lord. Or they are “normal”.
And those who claim to be born queer are lying to hide how they’ve freely given in to sin. So the choice is either in not resisting Satan’s wiles or in choosing to join Satan and reject God.
And yeah, as you note, it’s sometimes rather inconsistent how they think the whole system works. Honestly, I think which argument gets more time directly depends on whether or not the individual making the argument is “burying” some of their attractions to the same gender or not.
So, “recruitment” gets more play with those who do harbor some same-gender attractions, whereas it being just a straight up choice like a teenager choosing to listen to music his parents hate to piss them off, if they don’t.
And yeah, no matter what, it’s all stupid as fuck.
Or, as they used to put it, “homosexuals” want to rape your children, give them AIDS, and turn them gay, because “they can’t reproduce any other way.” That’s the male version, of course, but the lesbian/bi version isn’t really any different.
So if you’re thinking that in the 1980s they basically ported vampirism myths directly over to queers and it’s been there ever since, that is exactly right.
It maybe makes more sense (from a certain point of view) if you take into account that they think that Satan is a real and insidious power that’s actively trying to corrupt people away from God. Those sinful thoughts about how sweet smooching on Joyce would be? Those aren’t God’s thoughts. Satan put those in Becky’s head. And Becky was weak and gave in to Satan.
And, yeah, a lot of the loudest homophobic voices do have deep and meaningful attractions to people of the same sex, which is demonstrated when they fail in their effort to resist them as they were taught and get caught trying to pick up dudes in a truck stop bathroom or sexually harassing their same-sex interns. (I’m not making these up.) The others? Well, they’re just lucky not to have been targeted by Satan in that way.
Also a lot of them have this Calvanist Just World point of view going on – so if your life is sweet and comfortable, you must be a good person. If you are suffering, it’s because God is trying to let you know you are straying from his path. And, yeah, there are some who would take “Other people attacked me violently because of who I am” as evidence that God thought you needed correction.
I know. I had it happen to me. More than once.
But yeah, it becomes this nasty self-fulfilling prophecy where they see people being terrible to queer kids as well maybe they went too far but maybe God wouldn’t have had to use them that way if the queer kids were a bit better at resisting temptation.
WHY ARE YOU STILL HANGING AROUND POTENTIALLY CORRUPTING MY INNOCENT DAUGHTER INSTEAD OF MOVING BACK TO YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE WHERE WE GOOD GODLY PEOPLE COULD FIND YOU AND RE-BRAINWASH YOU???
You know what’s extra fucked up? I don’t think Joyce has actually gotten her hug yet. Like, her own daughter, who nearly died earlier this week, doesn’t even get a token of human compassion, because Carol got an opportunity to preach that “good gospel” about teh homo-sex-u-alls queering up her home.
It’s her valuing her twisted politics and religion over the humanity of her husband, daughter, and most certainly her practically a daughter. And that is something that really defines her and probably defines her real world analogue.
She’d die for her, but she won’t change and she won’t even show human compassion for all she’s been through.
Joyce is merely a prop for her to play the part of “good mother” at. A soul to save to punch her ticked into Heaven and be seen with her whole set of loved ones unlike some people.
Yeah. Joyce isn’t a person to Carol. She’s a little doll to be dressed up and paraded around to show what a Good Christian Mother Carol is. Carol’s love is strictly conditional on Joyce playing the puppet without complaint or critical thought or – god forbid – expression of free will.
Since Joyce is rebelling (starting to think for herself), Carol’s affection goes away. If Joyce back-slides and starts acting the perfect doll again, Carol will become all smiles and loves and praise again. “My most perfect daughter…” etc.
Well, obviously, Joyce’s prolonged presence around Becky and her irrational behaviour to Ross’ attempt to rescue his daughter from an unholy life of sin and debauchery is evidence that her sweet innocent daughter has been contaminated. She can’t hug her until all her clothes have been properly purged of any and all mind-altering contagious substances. Preferably with gasoline and Bible verses.
I noticed that right away and my hackles went straight up. It’s more than just a ministry opportunity. It’s an abusive power grab. Carol and Joyce had a ‘great’ relationship back when Joyce unquestioningly worshiped, respected and loved her “Most Perfectest Mom.” Now Carol sees her daughter expressing autonomy in the relationship. She doesn’t like that. And now it’s time to punish her for it.
It’s not the fire-and-brimstone imagery that makes hell scary to Christians. It’s the complete rejection of god’s love and mercy. To someone raised in that environment, withholding love is the closest thing you can do to recreate hell on Earth for them. Carol is doing that shit ON PURPOSE.
Hank is letting go of control. Carol is taking it back through any means necessary. Including torturing her own daughter in the most existential-yet-personal, fucked-up way she knows how. Watching her do it with a smile on her face makes me see red. Fuck, writing this post is literally making me shake with anger.
That’s what really strikes me about this strip. Like, your daughter who got a gun pointed at her a few days ago and could have died is RIGHT HERE, but Carol’s hardly paying any attention to her. She’s not doting on Joyce or even making innocuous small talk – she’s essentially ignoring her daughter in favor of spitting on Becky (passive-aggressively, for plausible conversational deniability, of course).
Of course, Joyce is the one who has been sheltering Becky and vocally supporting her even in defiance of her parents – and a history of defending an atheist friend, to boot! So I guess it’s not really an oversight of Joyce after all, but rather an intentional secondary cruelty.
Sometimes the little children just need a hard lesson in what happens if they keep acting like Jesus Christ, I guess.
My daughters best friend who practically grew up under my roof has recently lost her family in tragic and traumatizing circumstances and is now homeless. My daughter – as the good Christian she is – has gone out of her way to help her and made clear that she will continue to do so. However, I find that I blame the girl for the incident and I don’t agree with her sexuality. I also fear that she will lead my daughter astray.
Now my daughter has brought her home over the weekend. With her parents gone this is the closest thing she has to a home, and the friendship with my daughter is her biggest lifeline. Should I keep up a facade, make her feel as welcome as I can and talk privately to my daughter about my concerns? Should I even go as far as trying to help the girl with the practicalities, since she has practically nothing?”
– Cooking not burning –
“Dear Cooking,
Of course not. Your best course of action is obviously to be as passive-aggressive as you can, make the girl feel unwelcome and send a clear message to your daughter that she will have to chose between you and your friend. Try to add some victim blaming if possible and don’t forget to milk the fact that you are on your turf and the girl literary has nowhere to go for everything it’s worth. Only good things can come from that.
Good luck and enjoy your husband’s and daughter’s admiration.
Miss Manners”
Heh, this actually reminds me of various Dear X type letters writing by homophobes wanting validation for shitting on their queer family members or neighbors that have been completely shut down by the person they wrote to.
I like the one where someone complains about some gay/unmarried/wrong religion/etc people who move in to the are and asks “How can I make this neighborhood decent again?”
For the record, I just checked and the actual Miss Manners is cool about gay people. 🙂 Sometimes she is magnificently passive-aggressive/snarky towards people who aren’t, and it’s hilarious.
Honestly, this whole thing would be hilarious to me if it ended with Hank revealing to everyone that he’s gay. Then Carol can enjoy being trapped alone in her hate hole.
Oh sweet mercy, that is such a good response from Becky. I couldn’t be more proud of her… I love when stating cold hard facts is all you gotta do to put someone in their place (and ultimately piss them off).
I have my fingers crossed for how things turn out for Joyce during this trip, but… even without Becky there, I think something bad would be imminent. Joyce has had so many revelations of negativity in her life, she’s a powder keg ready to explode. And her mom’s gonna set that off.
“I love when stating cold hard facts is all you gotta do to put someone in their place”
I myself am horrible at this*, but I know two people that are goddamn masters of it. One of them is English, so naturally, he also puts in the extra layer of politeness on top. Can you imagine how infuriating that must be on the receiving end of -that-?
*It is one of the few things I do try to get better at, but seem to constantly fail. That is also one of my few regrets in life.
Exactly. At this point (from my experience anyways), if Mephistopheles was to turn up and do the whole Faust bit, he wouldn’t have to offer more than “an uninterrupted full nights sleep” to get both of them to shout “WHERE DO WE SIGN?” 🙂
Ah good ol’ Random Jerk Commenter. Remember all the good times? Like it was just yesterday… ~woooOooOooodooOoooOooOdoooOooOdOooOdO~ Random Jerk Commenter:”I don’t see why Amber is so mad! It’s not like Sal put a knife up to her neck!” ~woooOooOooodooOoooOooOdoooOooOdOooOdO~
Ahh, good times, good times.
That he should at least go to her house and get food and clothes for Bloomington. She could also get some stuff that her butthole dad owned to pawn or even get a t.v. and dvd player for Billy and Sal’s room an a thanks. Maybe get things her mother used to own.
Minor point: I think Billy already has a TV. (Remember, before they hooked up, Ruth used her key to break into Billie’s room so that they could watch sports.
Could be a large computer monitor, but I’m pretty sure its a TV… Ruth was using a remote control (something you don’t normally associate with monitors).
I do wonder what happened to it when Billie moved in with Ruth, since I don’t remember seeing her carry it.
“You have torn apart your home with your sin, and you are threatening to tear apart mine! I MUST DEFEND WHAT IS MINE BY RIPPING YOU TO SHREDS LIKE A MAMA HAWK!”
Hate is funny like that. It’s never about “I have decided to hurt this person,” it’s always about “I am in danger if I don’t violently and preemptively hurt this person who has done nothing to me personally.” But people don’t THINK about that.
Yup, it’s why hate movements always invent conspiracy theories about why the powerless people they are going up against are secretly all powerful and insidious, running the entire world or ploting to literally murder people in their beds and so on.
As you note, to Carol, Becky is not a scared queer kid trying to hold on to the few pieces she has left and put her life back together from literal nothing. She’s an all-powerful infectious force that means her household harm. That way any means of abuse and passive-aggression is justified to “defend”
I think the comment about moving back into her father’s house was intended to be a thinly-veiled nudge at Becky to get away from Joyce and stop “corrupting” her. And if Becky had expressed any interest in the house, I bet Carol would have started on some passive-aggressive spiel about how Becky is “mooching” off her father’s property and oh, how could she do that after she betrayed him??
Then Becky blithely points out that she’s actually homeless, hasn’t benefited in any way from this whole clusterfuck, and is intending to go to IU and make something of herself from the absolute bottom. This is a perfect retaliation, because it politely, but firmly makes it clear that no, Becky is NOT getting away from Joyce any time soon, and cuts off any chance for Carol to accuse her of taking advantage of the situation for monetary gain.
In short, Becky is clearly wise to Carol’s bullshit.
AND then she notes in the same calm tone that Carol and Hank quite easily could help her out, if not in the way she suggested then in a myriad of other ways, big or small. And she leaves that hanging.
The fifth panel is Carol NOT offering Becky any help whatsoever. The sixth panel is Joyce being not terribly impressed by that.
I’m not sure Joyce’s face is entirely aimed at her mother. As I recall, she recently questioned why Becky had tagged along. And here we have Becky pouring fuel on the fire *after* Hank’s desperate attempt to put it out. If Joyce explodes, I have a feeling that Becky is gonna catch some of the shrapnel.
If this does end with a huge blowup and Carol never wanting to talk to Joyce again or something like that, I can see Joyce eventually saying something very hurtful to Becky, of the “Why did you have to come along?” variety, and Becky feeling awful, and Joyce then feeling awful for making Becky feel awful. I mean, Joyce would repent pretty quickly, but it would be an understandable instinctive reaction on her part — not because Becky’s done anything wrong, but because she has made it impossible for Joyce to compartmentalize her life, and may be about to force Joyce to make a seemingly impossible choice, just by existing.
Obviously, the choice isn’t impossible, because you side with the homeless gay kid against the… well, let’s just abbreviate her to “Carol.” But it would be a credible emotional reaction on Joyce’s part to momentarily blame Becky. It wouldn’t be very creditable for her to express it, but then we all know the title of the comic, don’t we? And judgement would be suspended depending on whether Joyce is able to get past that moment or not.
I’m definitely impressed. Her means of handling it is incredibly deft. In my experiences, I tried to do that and mostly ended up just absorbing a ton and when I tried to push back on some of the hate, I usually would get started and then get bowled over just as quickly with a fresh bounty or a “how could you be so disrespectful?”
*Sigh* This weekend is going to end with an impending divorce, isn’t it? Carol is going to find it impossible to restrain the hate she feels for Becky and it is going to be inflicted on the rest of her family when they won’t join in. She’s finally going to let out how she ddespises her ‘weak’ husband and that she wishes she’d “beat the sin” out of her children, as Hank always refused to do so.
Naturally, Joyce and Becky will blame themselves but, in the end, it is the hate in the woman’s heart that is the true cause. I wonder if she’d been happier if Ross had just killed Becky and maybe Joyce rather than have them alive and being outside her concept of ‘worthy’.
Her brow is sweaty, truth bombs armed and ready
wanna vomit from the bigotry already, shit got heavy
She’s nervous, but on the surface she’s the same ol’ Becky
But to this mom, she’s an evil sinner getting
her claws in
The dinner table goes so silent
She’s grinning at how
Hard this bongo’s scowling now
She’s stoked on how
She flipped this bullshit right around
“My mac n chee ran out,
So I’ll have seconds now.”
Actually, it’s surprisingly apt! Going by the original source, http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/mountainsofmaddness.htm shoggoths hide in the dark under a vast historical scripture, mostly written in a dead language which they themselves can’t read. The parts closest to their day-to-day lives are twisted and vandalized for comfort or convenience. Their ancestors were slaves, but with those who oppressed them long dead, they remain in seclusion, naked, blind to their own strength and freedom. That bitter memory is all the excuse they need to attack atheists, explorers, scientists, and anyone who disturbs them, with merciless adaptability.
Oddly enough, I’m wondering if Carla may offer Becky sanctuary. It would be difficult for her but it would open up a possible narrative thread where Joyce befriends Carla and, through her, learns how to deal with what’s happening with Jocelyn.
I don’t think it’s Willis’s style to reduce Carla to Joyce’s ‘teaching moment’. Trans people spend their lives explaining and justifying their existence and rights to others; it would be pretty crappy if that was the reason the friendship plot was put into action, to put Carla in that position again as if it’s her job to teach Joyce how to not be awful. Also I just can’t see Carla and Joyce getting along.
More likely there’d be some general controversy about Carla/Mary and Joyce would have to figure things out herself or with some more general guidance from her current friends. Or maybe one of those print-offs Bryan is so fond of.
She might approach Carla after finding out, but I expect Carla would blow her off or give her 1-2 pointers before skating off.
Quick Hank, derail! “That reminds me Becky, Fred said I can borrow his trailer. Do you want to go pack up your stuff tomorrow? Joshua said you can put it in his storage unit until you get settled.”
Carol: Don’t forget the clothes YOUR IMPRISONED FATHER PAID TO PUT ON YOUR BACK.
Joyce. 7… 6… 5…
Becky: Sure! I’ll bring the sweater with the crosshairs on it. It’s rad.
Joyce: FOURTHREETWO…
Hank: WELL WOULD YOU LOOK AT THE TIME THANKS FOR THE FOOD LORD BLESS. BECKY, TRAILER NOW!!!!!
Okay, I know this is completely weird point to start this, but I’m now shipping Becky and Robin. Because just listening to fifteen seconds of conversation between the two would be AWESOME.
Every ship, possible, impossible and plain unthinkable exists and is immune to all things, including character death and Word of God (I’ve read shippers claiming that they know and understand characters better than the person who created them, seriously!).
Well, I never thought of it, but that’s because I never really think about Robin as an actual character in this webcomic. Heck, I had to go look up who she was.
I can honestly see Hank spending lots of time with Becky away from the house this weekend, mostly because he wants to stay out of the crossfire between Joyce and Carol.
In my life, the most important lesson I have learned, through painful trial an error, is what to say, what not to say, what tone to say it in, for every what&where&when&who.
So.
To watch these webcomic characters (not only these ones. SO MANY OTHER ONES) repeatedly “think out loud” or otherwise utterly fail to parse human emotion (even after proving that they CAN)…just…drives me MAD.
It heavily hurts my suspension of disbelief. Realistic characters stop talking after receiving overt signs of anger/disgust/malice.
And it’s beginning to hurt my sympathy. “Sure your situation is shitty, but YOU. ARE. NOT. HELPING. Do you not know any better? How did you live so long, if you didn’t know any better?”
If this is meant to be a learning experience, teaching me that people like Becky (and her dad, and Joyce’s mom, and to some extent Joyce herself) still exist (in the psuedo-realistic “today”), then yes, this does indeed contradict everything I know about my local Christian education system.
I honestly would have been happier without this knowledge.
I suppose that is the point.
Also, having been in Becky’s position before, the immense good of a well-timed defusing deflection like hers is critical in short-circuiting a long and dehumanizing rant about how all people like you are bad and ruining everything good.
Her options here were to either suffer a continuously escalating pattern of emotional abuse in silence or try and defuse and deflect like she did or rise to the bait and start yelling. She chose the most diplomatic of the potential options.
here’s the thing though, when it comes to becky and carol. becky’s pretty aware that carol’s not going to (voluntarily) be part of any actual material aid to her present situation, and if she hadn’t been before the previous strip and this one, she sure as hell is now. so if her flippancy is burning a bridge, the bridge in question only lead to a dead-end anyway.
besides, if carol WERE willing(/able) to offer any actual material aid, there would be soul-crushing strings attached to it, much like the faith-based charities who don’t bother with lgbt youth in need unless they “get rid” of that pesky “lgbt” part. yeah it’s shitty, but that doesn’t make it any less a thing.
“Realistic characters stop talking after receiving overt signs of anger/disgust/malice.”
Not in any world I’ve lived in. I mean, yeah, some people respond that way. But a whole lot of people don’t. And, frankly, backing down is not always the best response. Because that can let abusive people control you.
I can’t imagine living in a world where I never confront the aggressive person. That would just mean the aggressive person always wins.
Different characters can have different ways of responding to overt disgust and malice. Joyce would have responded differently if she were on the receiving end. Dorothy would have responded differently than Becky or Joyce. Amber would have responded differently, and so on.
Some realistic characters — as well as people in real life — might shut down in response to directed hatred, but others might not. Assuming that there’s only one realistic way for a person to act assumes only one kind of person. Heck, I’m pretty sure you and I would have very different ways of handling the same situation.
Becky’s response was perfectly in character for Becky: it was brash but well-meaning, it showed that she’s smarter than she’s given credit for, and she followed it up with a keeping-the-peace deflection.
I think this is the most intentional thing Becky’s ever done. We’ve seen how good she is at taking this kind of thing, how she didn’t break down during the Toedad incident. I’d say she’s “deftly handling this.”
She’s had far too much training in her life on how to deftly handle abuse. This is a means of doing that where she retains some of her power afterwards.
I think you’re assuming a lot here, there’s no indication that Becky was ever abused prior to her father kidnapping her with a gun.
I mean is plausible yes, but it’s not a fact as of yet.
Depends on what you mean by abuse. We haven’t been shown anything explicit, that’s true.
But she shows an awful lot of signs. The layers of emotional armor. The way she can be smiling and cheerful while she’s dying inside. The whole “Nobody likes a Debbie Downer” bit.
And then there’s “D’Ya know what I was majorin’ in at Anderson? Education. And only so when some gross dude claimed me I could better homeschool our dumb kids.
The danged extent of my allowed aspirations. My life goals.”
It’s not physical, but if that’s not abuse, I don’t know what else is.
Given the way Toedad acted and spoke, I’d say there’s no way Becky’s upbringing wasn’t steeped in religiously-motivated emotional abuse, if not actual physical abuse. After all, the Bible’s totally cool with you hitting your property if it disobeys.
Consider also that the people behind “To Train Up A Child” (basically a child abuse manual with excused with scripture, only google it if you want to lose your faith in humanity) are from the same culture.
And consider that Becky had absolutely no surprise at seeing her father pull a gun on her or at having him smack her or try to kill her friends. Terror, yes. Surprise or shock? No. This wasn’t the first time he hurt or threatened her. She expected it from him.
I’m not quite willing to go that far. I wouldn’t be surprised, but I don’t think the evidence quite justifies it. Yet.
Emotional abuse, absolutely. It fits and she shows the signs.
It’s not comedic relief, and it’s not unintelligent. It’s neither of the things you suppose it is. Becky is responding very dafly and very realistically, and the only humor to be found here is bitter and dark.
I know my own anxiety tends to flare up at characters acting not-like-i-would-have-in-their-place, but the truth is, Becky is handling this better than I would have.
She doesn’t own the house. Her dad does. Unless he plans on dying suddenly in his hospital bed before he can change any wills (and presuming his existing will doesn’t just donate all his worldly possessions to the Church), she’s not getting one penny from the house no matter what happens.
It depends? I dunno what happened with your cousin, but there’s a few variables, like, different laws and whether there’s a will.
If Toedad died intestate (without a will), there’s a strong chance that the house would pass to Becky (presuming that 1) Becky is his only offspring and 2) that the intestacy laws in Indiana work the same way they do in my state). But there’d still be a mortgage to contend with, unless the house were paid off at the time of his passing or could be paid off from other assets in the estate.
If Toedad has a will that does not leave the house to Becky, no. It wouldn’t go to her.
OR if Toedad has a life estate instead of owning the property in fee simple, then the property would pass to the remainderman.
Congratulations, you win 100 ableism points! You ascend an asshole level! New achievement: your mentally ill friends try to avoid talking to you whenever possible. Ding Ding Ding!!!
If someone is incompetent to manage their finances, etc. no one has the right to seize their property or budge it over on the next person. They’re probably going to have to have a guardian appointed unless they set up a Power of Attorney in advance. And even then, the property of the incompetent individual is not transferred to those people. It is managed by them on behalf of the owner.
(Not a lawyer, have no special knowledge of Indiana)
The house probably belongs to Ross. But it is Becky’s legal residence. If Ross wants to throw her out, there will have to be some sort of legal process to go through before the police will support it. Until then she can live there if she wanted to.
A lot hinges on what Ross does from jail to look after his property and affairs. Which likely also depends on how good his lawyer is.
Anything she owns in the house is still hers and she has a right to get it in any case.
The danger would be if someone from their church or other friend is looking after the property, formally or informally. And if the local authorities are going to follow the law.
FWIW, the fact that Becky (who ought to know her father’s circumstances) thinks that the house will be foreclosed sooner rather than later suggests that Ross doesn’t have much in the way of savings. Maybe he works on a casual/per-job basis. Being held after committing multiple felonies, the likelihood that he can continue to work to earn enough to meet those bills is unlikely.
I very recognize that Joyce expression. That’s a face somewhere between anger, betrayal, hurt, outrage, and fear. Joyce is doing her damnedest not to explode right now, because I think in her head she’s not sure whether the consequences of exploding or not exploding are worse and she’s too pissed off to find a middle ground.
Been there. Get used to it, Joyce. Where your mom’s concerned, it’s all downhill from here. :/
I can’t imagine how overwhelming all this is for Joyce. At least her father can be a pillar of support. I hope he stands up for Joyce and Becky to Joyce’s mom if it comes to it. That “us against the world” feeling that I imagine Joyce must be feeling is no fun.
The sooner it forecloses eh? Probably take about 6 months to a year depending on the state. That’s IF Toedad doesn’t attempt to stall that process from jail.
It depends on how far behind he was on the payments. College for his daughter, and burial expenses for his wife, could have been causing issues for a while now.
Now now Mrs. Fundie-bongo, someone isn’t respecting and accepting her husband’s decisions like a good Christian woman would. And it ain’t the lesbian or your daughter.
Also Fundie autocorrected to Gunfire and I just.. Find that a bit too funny.
I have to say that this highlights for me the oddity of the site sensor that replaces the other major gendered epithet with a word for something that I, as a percussionist specializing in hand drums, am accustomed to hitting…
Hm. So Becky does not try too hard to keep the peace. Not that she is under any obligation to do so, apart from being a guest in the Brown home. Of course, by that logic, shouldn’t Mrs. Brown be obligated to make her guest feel welcome…? (And if Carol thinks of Becky as family rather than a guest, shouldn’t there be some sign of affection anywhere here?)
Personally, the real kicker here for me is the way that the opening salvo was done without witnesses. It put Becky on the defensive from the start, with neither Hank nor Joyce fully aware of it (Joyce suspected, based on Becky’s reaction, but Hank remains ignorant). I wonder how calculated that was, or if Carol just took the unobserved shot when she saw the chance. (I’ve dealt with both in the past.) Joyce is not likely to follow the script Carol had in mind if it was deliberate…
“(And if Carol thinks of Becky as family rather than a guest, shouldn’t there be some sign of affection anywhere here?)”
I think it just goes to show how warped and conditional the “love” that Carol has to offer is. A few weeks ago, she would have probably been happily referring to Becky as “one of the family” and claiming “she’s like a second daughter to me!”.
But now one thing changes: Becky is out of the closet. And suddenly that love and affection is gone and Carol has filed Becky away in her mind as some dangerous Other to be avoided and scorned. The kind of “Christian Love” that such Fundamentalists have to offer is utterly twisted.
Ouch, yeah, that is hurtful. And a reminder that cool as Hank may be, he is still part of the same culture as Carol, and even if he – in contrast to Carol and ToeDad – may be in possession of basic human decency he still can do real harm.
And I keep remembering that Becky practically grew up as their daughter.
This weekend at home was originally scheduled to celebrate Joyce’s safety specifically; Becky jumped in at the last minute.
Also, Becky may be out from under Toedad, but she’s got a lot of career planning and social networking and grant applications to file. She’s basically moved up from “horny teen in act 1 of a slasher movie” to regular “homeless GSM youth.” Long way yet to go. If one was of a mind to celebrate her current situation, the word would be ‘victory,’ not ‘safety.’
Maybe it’s a stretch, but perhaps Hank is trying to take Carol’s focus off Becky? Or maybe he’s deliberately wording it in a way that will appeal to Carol? If he says “Joyce and Becky are safe” then I could easily see Carol starting on some “But her soul isn’t safe!!” rant or claiming that she would have “safer” getting dragged off to conversion therapy by her father.
The interesting part here is that the question being asked and the answer are completely legitimate. It’s entirely in tone and phrasing that it becomes so hostile.
“Is it possible for you to stay in your dad’s house while you get back on your feet?” “Well, no, I don’t have any way to maintain the bills.” Perfectly valid exchange. The answer seems obvious, but it didn’t occur to me until Becky said it. I’d have replied with “oh, well, yeah, that’s true, duh.”
But it’s the environment and the sheer passive aggression that ramps it up so much. Carol is making her judgement very clear without actually saying it, and Becky is making it clear that she knows just what Carol is doing and isn’t having any of it.
Not just classic college kid, but classic high school kid as well. Which I’d missed before, but suggests again that she’s not being rude here, though it seems almost like she is. She’s doing the same thing she did when she approached Hank – behaving like she belongs, like she always used to when she was with Joyce’s family, her second family.
Even though everything is different now, she’s both reaching out for that comfort and reminding them of the girl who asked for more mac an’ cheese how many times at that table?
It worked on Hank. It’s not working on Carol. But she’s still trying. And probably screaming inside, despite that big smile.
And that is not only for her and Joyce sake – it gives Carol and Hank an easy way to avoid awkwardness.
She don’t ask them to get down on their knees and denounce their gay-hating ways (even if Joyce is happy enough to do that). All she ask of them is to treat her the way they have always done, just like Hank did. Just like Carol didn’t.
I know that if I was in this situation, I wouldn’t find it funny, but viewing it from a safe distance, I can’t help but laugh. The tension is so thick…
Considering everything Joyce has been through the last few weeks (very nearly being the victim of sexual assault, making friends with sinners, evolutionists, and atheists, and getting held up at gunpoint by a family friend), I’m honestly surprised that Carol is still trying to pick a fight with Becky at this point.
Come on, lady! Priorities! This is your daughter we’re talking about here!
Not that there’s not a good reason for Becky being Becky there, but I think that she needs to employ just a bit more tact with how she handles Carol. I certainly don’t agree with Carol – I’m totally in Becky’s corner – but when you’re a guest in someone else’s home, or when you’re dealing with the parent of a friend (especially at the age that Becky and Joyce are), one should try to phrase things more politely and tactfully.
If she’s truly best friends with Joyce, she should be treading carefully in the Browns’ house, not necessarily taking all the stuff that Carol is dishing and ceding defeat, but rather at least responding in a more respectful manner due to the parent of a good friend and host. This is especially true, knowing based on the initial greeting, that Joyce is likely to be the target of any repercussions that arise from this Becky situation.
Sometimes you have to be the better person, even if the other party doesn’t deserve it – maybe especially when the other party doesn’t deserve it. I hope Becky realizes this soon, for Joyce’s sake.
I disagree, Becky had the invitation from Hank so shes more than welcome in the home, Carol is being a complete bongo which allows Becky to respond in kind as the host dictates how the social mores happens.
Yes Becky is a guest however that means there is certain obligations on the host on how to behave and Carol is falling short so imho Becky is allowed to defend herself and her actions.
Moreover Carol is acting like a bully in this situation, she has all the power (shes the adult and its her house) so Becky either stands up to her or she just takes whatever vitriol Carol decides to fling her way
So no Becky doesn’t have to be the better person because Carol has broken the unwritten rules of convention.
As I said above and as was talked about when she first greeted Hank, she’s making the right moves here. They’re not going to work, but it’s still the right thing.
She’s not “company” here. She doesn’t have to be on her best behavior. She’s Joyce’s best friend. She’s been in and out of this house since childhood. She’s eaten that mac and cheese and asked for more hundreds of times just like that. She’s saying, with every bit of normalcy she’s got: I’m Becky. I haven’t changed. I’m still the same kid you’ve known for years. Treat me like that. I need that.
There’s no guest/host thing going on here. There’s extended family. Family that Carol is rejecting.
If Becky went in all formal and stiff and behaved like a stranger or a distant acquaintance, she loses her only weapon here. Then she is just a strange lesbian who’s corrupting their daughter. She’s not acting like Becky, she’s not reminding them of Becky, she’s telling them that she’s changed, she’s different that they don’t have to treat her like they always have.
It worked on Hank. It’s not going to work on Carol. She’s too far gone.
Besides all that, it wouldn’t work anyway. Even if Becky did everything you wanted, Carol’s would keep pushing. Even if Becky hadn’t come, Carol would keep pushing, but at Joyce in that case.
And Joyce isn’t going to take it. She’ll fight for Becky.
As Cerberus noted above, both Carols attacks so far has been COMPLETELY without provocation from Becky’s side. Even if Becky said nothing at all, Carol would just have kept on escalating until Joyce exploded.
I agree, Carol is acting like a bully and if Becky doesn’t stand up to her Carol will continue her attacks, I’m just not sure if its because Carol is a bully by nature or if shes a bully because of what her religion has taught her (not that it really matters I guess)
I wasn’t saying she shouldn’t have responded, but no matter how rude a parent of a friend was being to me, I would never have been deemed ‘in the right’ by answering “Well, if you think that’s what I should do, then YOU do it for me and I will,” to said parent. It’s flippant, and while Carol is being a bully, as the parent of a friend, there’s a certain manner that I was taught with how you respond to your elders.
Again, I don’t think that Carol is right. I DO think that Becky needed to respond. But there’s a huge difference and potential effect for Joyce between “I can’t do that because I can’t afford to” and “I can’t afford that, so if you want me to do that, YOU do it for me.” One explains the reality of the situation, while the other fans the flames.
At least, that’s my take on it.
Also, while Hank did invite Becky, both Hank and Carol could potentially rescind said invitation, in the sense that either Carol could kick Becky out and Hank would have to decide whether to intervene or not, and if he didn’t agree, then more hell breaks loose, especially since that would require both Hank and Joyce to openly choose sides. Is that a position that a best friend should put her best friend in, if it’s avoidable?
As the Japanese saying goes, “It’s not like Becky is actually going to be made smaller by what Carol says in closed company.” What she says isn’t going to change what Joyce and Hank think about Becky (their minds are already made), nor will Becky think less of herself… Whereas the wrong response can actually make things worse for Joyce, at least, and possibly even for Hank.
Oh boy. Joyce’s mom, you’re pretty damn stupid, ain’tcha? You SERIOUSLY don’t remember what happened last time when you tried to make Joyce pick you over a friend? And that wasn’t even a friend she’d known all her life. Get ready, fireworks are gonna go off…and you’re not gonna like it.
Oh my god, that Becky! Reacting with reasonable and logical statements and pretending like Carol isn’t trying to passive-aggressively provoke a fight! How could she?!?
It’s like that time when she completely ruined her alleged best friend’s day by existing in front of her father!
My limited experience with evangelicals is that critical thinking is not usually their strong suit. Unless we’re talking about the Liberty University debate team which has trounced Harvard.
Interesting choice to do the continuous-image-different-panel thing. I really like it, but I can’t figure out why, seeing as logically it should be just as serviceable to merge those sets of panels into one panel? Idk.
Dunno, which one is in front of her where her glare is directed? Which one has been passive-aggressive and hurtful without any provocation? Which one did Joyce expect a confrontation with making her dread this weekend well in advance?
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The Live-Tweeting for this meal, at regular intervals: “shots fired”*
one interruption for: “out of mac & cheese again”
*(though, considering the circumstances, that’d be more appropriate for their alternate-universe alien-fighting selves)
dat Joyce face tho
Yea now i am picturing her having that face since she sat down.
She HAS had that face the whole time. Her mac and cheese is touching her peas.
No justice, no peas.
All we are saying is give peas a chance.
Peas stop that …
Mind your Peas and Ques.
Not until we have whirled peas.
No justice, no peas?
… Damn it … Phone may be smart, user not so much …
Peas out
Peas be with you
What? You wanna peas of me?
This discussion dispeases me. 😛
Ah, but it peases me tho…
We need more nesting ;-; Willis extend the nesting please.
Uh oh, did we peas you off?
I don’t think he’ll be able to add more nesting NinthShader, on a smaller screen there might not be enough room. I doubt they could make it work, even if it would peas the masses…
:c
Carrot juice is murder?
Or that other Lennon classic “Peas Peas Me”
Peas sir, I’d like some more?
You actually made me check, dangit.
Her cheese is touching her mac
She likes a military meal…
I’d say she has. It really does not look like she has touched her food at all.
Her full plate is less a function of the conversation itself (or food proximity issues) than the fact that Becky doesn’t stop talking to eat, and basically inhaled the whole plate. The whole family has barely touched theirs.
joyce is not peased.
It’s only been a week in-universe, right?
Becky: Shots fired.
Joyce: …
Becky: Too soon?
Walky: *high fives*
Dorothy: …
*Carol & Hank try to work out where these other kids came from…*
*dina stands behind the door*
*no one else cares*
I’m still sad that he showed Dina back at IU a couple strips back. Ruined my head canon that she’d come along on the trip without anyone noticing and was just behind the door all the time.
Perhaps she’s contemplating how to build a warp drive to ninja herself there instantaneously?
Wait so… we have a nonmagical alternate universe of a comic where they’re all fighting aliens… and then you made an alternate universe of this one where they’re all fighting aliens?
…recursion much?
Ugh…I want XCOM 2 so bad…
I do like what you’ve done with this lot. Done the guys by any chance? And which game are those from?
It actually explains in the text under the last picture: They’re made in the character customization in XCOM 2. Which I should read up on and find out what it’s like because people seem really eager about it (I’m sorry I haven’t played XCOM guys)
Yeah, I had to try after seeing Becky’s hair (but reversed, ARGH)
Walky turned out… not Walky at all, and Jason (the only one I’d actually expect to hold a gun) really doesn’t look it without the bowtie (not an option)
anyway, XCOM is a great game if you enjoy turn-based strategy–easily the best of the genre
Seeing the sunglasses on Amazi-girl just has me thinking of Wesker from Resident Evil…
That’s not a bad thing.
well, there wasn’t a mask
other than the hockey mask, but that seemed a bit weird
Well i was wondering about the house myself
Maybe Hank will continue his streak of being super awesome and make a stop at Becky’s house on the way back to IU so she can get her things. Particularly really important stuff like a social security card or birth certificate that will really help her moving forward.
Frankly her father has probably paid a large portion of the mortgage over the years. meaning that with her father in Jail, or at least soon going to trial, she acts as inheritor of the estate.
if she sells the house, she’ll basically get back what the bank has already been paid. depending on the size of house, and how much land on the property, average houses costing about $500,000 she’d stand to receive at least $50,000 to $250,000 depending on how much is left on the mortgage, which would more than cover a decent education. she could sell or auction any belongings in the house. he probably has a decent Gun collection that could easily be worth $5,000 to 15,000.
if her father had more than one vehicle, she can sell those, or keep one to drive. and she can always get a life insurance policy on her father, in case he dies in jail or some shit. not to mention what she stands to be awarded by the courts after her father is charged in court. which could be a few million dollars for mental anguish and suffering.
if she keeps her head on straight and plays her cards right, she could be set for years.
she’ll be a very rich girl.
He’s going to jail, not being murdered. Pretty sure, she doesn’t actually inherit the house.
But her father is in jail, not dead. It’s soon enough still that I doubt he’s even in prison or been sentenced.
I can’t imagine it’s legal for her to just sell the house and all his belongings, when theoretically he could be coming home soon (innocent until proven guilty and all. Until he’s seen a judge and been sentenced, he’s not guilty yet).
Ross is still alive, though. Becky wouldn’t be entitled to any of his assets until he passes.
I am not a lawyer, but the way I interpret IC 35-42-3-2, he comitted kidnapping with a deadly weapon, a Class 3 felony that carries a 9 year sentence on average. While he’s incarcerated, he’s still responsible for his mortgage and other bills. They’ll continue to be paid until he runs out of money. If the house isn’t paid off by then (and the rest of the congregation doesn’t crowdsource the payments for him), the foreclosure process will finally begin.
Also remember he hasn’t even gone to trial yet. This is dinner on Friday, Toedadpocalypse was this past Monday.
We’re probably a comic-time year out from the McIntyre house being foreclosed upon.
Unless of course it was already in the process of being foreclosed on prior to the comic taking place for reasons beyond Ross being arrested and likely sent to jail.
Kind of in line with the subtext I’ve been picking up on Lil’ Rossie. I think he’s been out of work for quite a while and has been shifting the blame to his wife and daughter, rather than focusing his energy on what he was going to do about making ends meet like a *real* man of the house.
Something tells me Becky’s Mother got sick of carrying him in every way save financially and getting not a hint of gratitude in return.
That’s an interesting angle. If Becky’s mom passed after a long battle with illness, the medical bills would be formidable if he didn’t have a good job with good health benefits. Ross doesn’t strike me as the type to have embraced the Affordable Care Act either.
Oh! Nice point. I hadn’t thought of that. I considered that Toehead was a devout follower of Dave Ramsey (https://goo.gl/1c7b64) and probably considers living debt free to be a basic tennent of his life. A reason to live in Indiana where you can buy a 3bd 2bth for less than 60K (Look at this lovely home! http://goo.gl/UfuuOL)
With that thought I figured he had the house paid off and way working on his prepper cabin in the wilds of Wisconsin/Minnesota/Michigan, with a shipping container bunker and all his money in gold and guns.
At worst I figured he might not want to pay his prop taxes (or ANY taxes) after the home is paid off. The place could be in foreclosure for something like that, water waste fees, garbage collection, etc. A bunch of stuff that isn’t “fair” when you pay it, but is bullshit when it’s not working right.
Ok, but the real question here is, does the CAUTION: World’s Greatest Farter sign come with the home
Also, Ross can appoint an agent to sell it on his behalf, pay to have his stuff put in storage, etc.
Bet the only way Becky sees a cent of it is if she reforms and gets born again or something like that. Because, you know, it’s her fault.
…. on the other hand, if Ross wasn’t given bail (quite possible given his crime), and if Becky moved in, she could claim squatter’s rights like crazy when the bank finally DID foreclose.
It’s pretty possible Becky will get money from judgement of Ross’ action, as a victim. But court stuff tend to take a long while.
Sadly, probably not. After all, this will definitely be a criminal case and criminal cases only award jail time, not damages. She could try to sue the campus or her old Church for monetary damages, but it’d be very hard to prove and I don’t think Becky’s the type to do that.
So, Becky’s going to be rather shit out of luck, largely because Reltzik is likely right with Toedad probably arranging a sale of his property before he goes to jail and loses it to the bank and to also make sure Becky doesn’t see a single penny.
He could also arrange for it to be rented out and for someone to manage it while he’s away.
Whether Ross has the foresight for that, I don’t know. Nor does it really matter. Becky doesn’t get the house, barring him dying in jail or some such.
She could theoretically sue her father for damages, based on the incident. It’s not without precedent. However, it’s quite likely that his legal defenses (both criminal and civil) will devour any liquid assets he has remaining, and possibly force him to re-mortgage the house up to the absolute limit, with that money also being fed into the legal defense. By the time Becky got a ruling (likely after Joyce graduates), there’d be a few crumbs left for her to pick over. Better just to write it off and move on.
Really, her best bet would be to get a legal emancipation from her father, giving her no right to the house, and then use THAT to clarify her status with the school aid offices.
if she’s eighteen, isn’t she legally an adult??
I’m pretty sure it’s waaaaaaaaaay more than just kidnapping with a deadly weapon. I can think of several other things that happened during that.
(Disclaimer: I’m far less of a lawyer, so any of these could easily be wrong.)
– Discharging a weapon in a public place/college grounds (or whatever you would call that)
– Assault (striking Becky in the car)
– Attempted Murder (when he clearly aimed and fired his weapon at Amber, but for that one to come up the driver of the red car would have to testify because Amber isn’t gonna.)
– Reckless Endangerment (for the whole car crash fiasco, possibly Attempted Manslaughter too when Amber was thrown from the car.)
Those add up, so as long as the right people come forward, he could be put away for much longer than nine years.
Either way, there’s gonna be a lot of time spent in court for all involved.
I doubt Toedad has a large gun collection if he chose a single shot rifle with no sights.
Maybe that was his “car-gun”, with the rest stashed around the house?
You don’t take the cover off of the Ferrari when the beat-up Chevy will get you to the store just fine…
I’m stopped at “Average houses being around $500k”.
Where do -you- live?
Around me, it’d be easy enough to get a 1400 sq. foot place for about $120k and a nice house could run low to mid $300k. $500k here would be a McMansion.
In San Francisco, $120k will get you a nicer box on the side of the road, and $500k would have a roof on it. YMMV.
Yeah, I doubt toe-dad has a half-million dollar house. More like making payments on a 130k.
Oh, man, don’t look at the housing prices in Vancouver, BC. Depressing. My 800 square foot piece of shit in the Interior of BC we paid $65k for would *start* at two mil down there, possibly more, depending on location and lot size.
Ethan, where I live, I just bought an old 1900sqft house. I paid 400k. The bank said it is worth 420k. That is SUPER cheap for around here. Though I live in the US in one of the most expensive areas possible.
“In San Francisco, $120k will get you a nicer box on the side of the road.”
This. When I was in college at SFSU, I paid ~$900 a month not including utilities to share a room in a two bedroom apartment, that had no neen refinished so it was cheaper (paint chipping, burnt carpet, mold problems, no dishwasher, hot water went out super fast, etc).
Now I live in west Michigan, and I pay $700 including utilities for my own really well kept apartment~
Depressed Chris is depressed. I’m in San Diego and that is definitely WAY below average for a 2-3 bedroom single family home.
out of curiosity, I checked out houses in their area (now you can, too!)
FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS ARE YOU KIDDING ME
Honestly, I took Becky’s comment merely as an indication that she has no intention of getting involved in any of Toedad’s affairs. She will make no attempt to try and save the house and only cares because the university will take her father’s money into account when judging her for assistance.
Joyce is too busy feasting on that lower lip for mac n cheese
BECKY IS BEST CHARACTER
…
Jesus Christ how horrifying.
Caps lock and lack of punctuation scares you that much?
dat clown
it’s staring into my soul and judging my dining manners
Perhaps you shouldn’t eat so messily then.
That’s no clown. It’s a robber.
That’s no clown. That’s a space station!
Curse you user-with-Amazi-Girl-Gravatar, My affiliation has been revealed!
If you knew who Wolf was you’d be scared too
For a Decepticon to admit something must be horrifying, it MUST be pretty bad. Don’t get it myself, maybe I miss a Human culture reference? Hang on, Daniel the Human wants me to watch something called “Stephen King’s It”. Eh, fair enough, see how this goes…
Even Decepticons respect the evil of clowns.
While you’re at it, look up PAYDAY: The Heist. You’ll find this familiar face.
sure this strip is important but am i the only one who misses faz
http://40.media.tumblr.com/73d8cd3c63213ef0195ab25407484eb0/tumblr_o2mjafYB2B1r37goeo1_1280.png
Yes, you are the only one that misses Faz.
Yotomoe likes him, too. But that’s about it.
ps. your kitty-link comic is grand.
thank you
well that’s just disappointing.
Not true. Faz misses Faz.
Maybe, but with practice your aim should get better.
Hitting a moving target can be tricky.
Yeah, but if you calibrate the scope right, with rings circling the center to help track movement, it helps a lot…
…Or just slam in a drum mag & go quantity over quality…
At the moment, I’d be totally cool with siccing him on Joyce’s mom.
Hateful homophobic asshole or no, wishing sexual harassment on someone is always in poor taste.
You know what I like to wish on horrible characters: That for just a few seconds, they will suddenly realize just how gruesome they are. They will feel the pain their words and actions have inflicted on other people (and they will also have to realize that said other people are in fact just that: People). They will truly understand the real consequences on how they affect their surroundings.
It is both the most horrible and the most humane thing I could wish on them.
but then the author would need to create more horrible characters to take the place of the redeemed horrible character that learned how horrible they are.
…So… Par for the course? 😛 I keed I keed…
You assume they’d redeem themselves after that.
We could sic Ghost Rider on them
Penance Stare!
The Penance Stare was the best.
It wouldn’t work. She has no soul.
If a cartoon lets it work on Galactus, why not here?
I wish that on horrible people irl. Like the people who delight in doing things like sending death wishes and terrible threats on anon. If only they saw themselves for what they really are, maybe they’d grow as people.
Easily done. Just nip on down to Shannara, borrow the Sword Of Truth and let ’em have it.
You seem to be mixing up Terry Brooks and Terry Goodkind.
That’s been a general wish for me for everyone who has caused more pain than joy in their lives. To truly, genuinely understand that pain, and how deep it goes.
It’s honestly the closest thing to “justice” I can imagine, and it would have the potential to do genuine good.
Such a shame such a thing isn’t possible…
What about being stuck in a room with Tedd’s dad for an hour?
[cries as no one understands]
El Goonish?
I was thinking that, but I’m not sure why being stuck with Mr. Verres for an hour would be so bad.
He is an endless barrel of exposition. There would be chats.
That’s why I love the concept of karma. Not just in a ‘what goes around comes around’ sense. More specifically, however your actions affect another, for better or for worse, someday, somewhere, you will be made to understand how that feels. Life plays the long game on that one. Trust me.
Actually, a fitting punishment would be to stick Amber’s Dad, Toedad, and Faz all in the same solitary confinement cell, with the Dad’s in straightjackets. Although I’m sure that violate the cruel and unusual punishment laws somewhere.
I like Faz. Sorta’ like an old pillow. Sure it may get lumpy and smell a bit, but throw it in the washer and put that sucker on spin and it’ll be good as new.
Good….as….new….
I know you didn’t put “Faz” and “pillow” in the same sentence, but…close enough.
http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=1629
“am i the only one who misses faz”
Hmmmmm…
“Now that I’ve learned to tapdance, I can finally potty train my gerbil.”
Sorry, I just had to find a sentence that was even less likely to have ever been written before.
“I’d like to make Mary my waifu”.
hey, shes very pretty, and few people keep the same views their whole life.
She is both horrible and adorable
adhorrable.
Abhorable.
The word is adeplorable.
-Willis, when he first made her. For however long it took to realize that gods not hat sounds horrible.
Make gods, not hat.
I’ve seen that on Tumblr. It made me want to cry.
Link?
Someone ships Link from Legend of Zelda with Mary from DoA?
What am I talking about, it’s Tumblr. Of course there’s someone that does that.
See, you need to be more specific. Right now it could apply to any Mary, some of whom might be lovely people.
How about “Life is about 3 things. GETTIN’ MONEY, GETTIN’ PUSSY, AND THE DEWEY DECIMAL SYSTEM” or “I’m your father and I really like your art, son” *cries*
COUNTIN’ STACKS, GETTIN’ SOME, AND KEEPIN’ IT ALL ORGANIZED!
George Carlin routine?
*cough* You meant fapdance *cough*
Awesome comic!
Honestly, I really like Faz! In a endearingly pitiful sort of way. (Although I know I would cease to be amused by him if the strip ever pretended his creepiness was anything other than horribly misguided and extremely creepy.)
Well I don’t see Faz actually assaulting anyone
Yet.
Awwww, KITTY!!!! Faz is great and so is his cat.
Blaine – father of the year material.
Actually, I didn’t really think of it at first, but back at family reunion day Blaine left Faz, who I’m pretty sure is around 15 in this continuity, alone at campus with people he had done everything to antagonize (and who Faz did his own best to antagonize following daddy’s example). That’s a colossal dick move.
Fudge it, Blaine. Ross beat you to the worst-father award fair and square. It’s no use try to cram in extra awful to get it back.
But it all turned out okay. Dina returned him.
heres another picture of faz with the cat because im never satisfied
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbU1BEYVAAAsOH3.png
Awwwwwww!!!!
I always found myself somewhat endeared by Faz. Maybe it’s just his unchanging face and his weird way of speaking but Faz always struck me as the kind of guy who’s sheltered and has no real understanding of people.Like a Dina who instead of throwing herself into dinosaur books threw himself into cheesey pick-up artist books and low grade pornos.
Yeah, I think that is a pretty apt description. And where Dina’s parents share her quirks and are supportive, Faz father is Blaine and… share some of his quirks. None of them good.
Willis has mentioned before that he was disappointed he never had Amber confront Blaine in Shortpacked! Im disappointed Faz never killed him, I mean that would have been fucking awesome. I mean, Blaine was partly responsible for the creation of a monster (in a sense), it would be delightfully ironic if that monster was what killed him in the end.
As my own mother said, “You don’t own stuff, your stuff owns you.”
Lemme guess:
plays “song relating to that comment” on the hacked muzak.
*plays CCR’s “Fortunate Son” on the home stereo*
CLOSE ENOUGH
What’s the over/under for someone replying to that comment with a Yakov Smirnoff quip?
I could own your mom for a nickel.
In Soviet Russia, my mom owns you for a nickel.
hostilities engaged~
I take it becky is not much of a conversation person 😆
on the contrary, she spikes conversations like a boss!
So she is really a conversation volleyball?
or a conversation spike trap.
Or the conversation punch-at-a-poorly-chaperoned-high-school-dance?
I dunno, you kind of have to be good at conversations to answer and deflect that gracefully. I’d say if the scientist thing didn’t work out, she could probably do well for herself as a PR rep.
Plus, can’t you just imagine the Beckyism potential there?
Better yet. Becky working with ROBIN on PR.
Becky as Robin’s PR chief?
Becky: “OK, the most important part about this campaign is that it has to be rad.”
Staff person1: “Er… doesn’t this new direction go against… you know… our platform?”
Staff person2: “We have to be ‘rad’ to reach the youths. Honestly, I have no idea of what she’s talking about.”
Riley: “Do you want more cereals?”
Becky: “You betcha!”
she is a conversational SLAM DUNK. 😀
Becky throwing some serious shade
Yay, for Hank trying to be a supportive father-figure to Becky!
Also, yay Becky for that SICK FUCKING BURN.
Kudoes for attempting to keep the peace, Hank.
But this is going to shit fast, so maybe find something heavy to hide behind until it all blows over.
Not even a bunker will protect from the incoming shitstorm.
This will end with Hank grabbing Becky and taking cover in the garage while the Joyce Hit The Carol.
Cues up Deadlier Than The Male on the hacked Muzak.
http://i.imgur.com/UUSS4rD.png
that scene would’ve solved everything.
also, yay! i just learned a new turn of phrase!
Accurate!
Also you gave Carol a really fine butt?
Well she is from Indiana.
I like big(ot) butts and I cannot lie
we hate gay kids and we cant deny
Carol take notes.
Joyce should too, honestly.
She has.
This is perfect!!!
Hey, what a shock, Miss Brown continues to be an incredibly terrible person. She may not be the one chasing a child with a loaded gun, but she and people like her are the reason toedad felt absolutely secure in the righteousness of his kidnapping and threatened murder.
Yup. ToeDad did what he did with the conviction that people like Carol would have his back.
He was right.
ha ha, conviction
puns!
she and people like her are the reason toedad felt absolutely secure in the righteousness of his kidnapping and threatened murder.
Thiiiis this this this. This is why I’m so weary of all the “good Christians” around me. I don’t care if YOU didn’t [shoot up the Planned Parenthood/shun your gay kid/whatever] — if it was your [‘baby killer’ rhetoric/homophobic screeching/whatever] that convinced someone to, you’re severely implicit.
Um, Miss Brown would be Joyce (or Jocelyn). Carol is Mrs. Brown
Well, it’s not like we didn’t get a warning…
We now take a break from our scheduled drama to show some pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRC4Vk6kisY
…Then was add a demonic twist…
OK, how did “…Then lets add a Demonic twist…” become “…Then WAS add a Demonic twist…”? Eh, I blame Earth tech & no edit buttons…
I really like what Willis does with the frames here.
Agreed! How Joyce and Hank transgress the borders and Carol and Joyce are trapped in their frames… it’s neat.
Joyce also crosses panel boundaries, though
Huh? You are right. So much for my armchair psychology and ability to actually read the comic I’m obsessively commenting on.
Still neat design though!
It supports your armchair psychology! Joyce crosses the panel to Becky, Hank crosses the panel to Carol. Hank occupied his own frame, Joyce occupies her own frame. It sort of showcases not just the extremes of the characters )Becky and Carol finishing and ending the strip like values on a rating scale) but also seems to put Hank and Joyce on a continuum of where they fall in this conversation and the positions they’ve evolved with personal growth.
Yeah, that analogy sort of puts Hank far on his lonesome in terms of progress, but I figure he isn’t nearly as open as Joyce is now. He still changed his “is” to “was ” when he was about to say “Becky is a good kid”, but he seems to be taking the Christian route of swallowing his judgement and thinking before talking, and approaching the situation with love for both girls. So he occupies his own panel, close to Carol but not wholly with Carol (if Becky recanted her sexuality at this point, I’m pretty sure Hank would greet it with open relief, even though he isn’t antagonising her here, whereas Joyce at this stage might actually not be relieved so much as more confused and slightly hostile/suspicious of a 180 like that).
Note that I’m not pushing this as a probability for the storyline, just as an example of of disparate rxns to an unlikely scenario in order to illustrate the point (SOMEone would misread it without the disclaimer)
Honestly, I had been wondering about this. Unless it’s a short sale (which it could be, I dunno, housing bubble aftereffects?) would the prison situation enable her to get some of that sales dosh she can use as a deposit on an apartment or something? I don’t see a direct route to doing that unless Indiana has some sort of victim compensation law, but – does it?
I don’t think it actually does. And honestly, it might be better for her to not get that so that she can qualify for full financial aid.
^ This and this. The house is guaranteed to be only in Toedad’s name, because he’s not the type to believe in women owning property. He’s the only one who sees any money from a sale unless the bank forecloses, in which case the bank sees the money and sticks him with a bill if they don’t manage to sell it for what’s owed on it. Becky is way better off when it comes to financial aid not having a dime to her name or a roof over her head – she’s more likely to get aid that covers both tuition and housing, and she’d be more eligible for any campus services the university has for poor and/or homeless students. (I don’t know about most campuses; mine had resources for both, including food pantry and housing resources.)
Not to defend Becky’s dad in any way, but I’d say that the house is likely only in his name because Becky is his child, not his spouse or roommate or something. Children usually don’t own a part of their parents’ house (unless that’s different in the US, but I doubt it), regardless of whether those parents believe in women owning property.
I would presume that the sale of Toedad’s assets would go into his legal costs. I don’t know how an “estate” works if the person is not dead, but simply in prison for the foreseeable future.
It works exactly the same as if he was not in prison, except it’s a little trickier for him to be on hand to do things like maintenance and signing papers and placing ads in newspapers. Some of that he’ll now have to do by mail from his jail cell and some of that he might need to get a real-estate agent for.
… it’s quite possible that he’s underwater, depending on how high his late wife’s medical bills got.
Joyce is literally going to flip the table if her mother continues to act like this.
Hell yeah.
Nooo! Don’t flip the table! You’ll get Hank with it as well as Carol!
It’s what Jesus would do.
When asking yourself “what would Jesus do?,” always remember that flipping tables and chasing people out of the building with a bullwhip is within the realm of possibility.
No Joyce! Spare the mac and cheese!
But then Snoop gets mac and cheese!
NOT THE MAC N CHEEZ D:
mob aggro’d
Beeecccckyyyyy Jeeennnnkiiinnnnssss!
“Why are you not living in the expensive house of the guy who threatened you and my daughter with a gun? Wouldn’t that place feel safe??”
Classic Carol
to be fair though – becky don’t give a fuck
If she asks if you want a cheese sandwich, say yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y72AIzZLSy4
Bite ‘er head off Joyce
Why do I have a nagging feeling that this will end in either metaphorical or literal bloodshed?
It can be two things.
Matching wrist splints?
Because you are insufficiently pessimistic. IT WILL BE WORSE THAN THAT.
This.
That awkward moment where you know there’s gonna be a fight, but you stay because mac n cheese is too good.
I bet she doesn’t even use shells for her macaroni.
this just makes me very sad
hank is great. i want hank to decide all conversation topics from now on.
Almost the only way they will last through dinner is if Becky eats in silence, Carol and Joyce glare at each other and Hank talks nonstop about fishing or something.
…. Becky….
…. silence….
…. so what you’re saying is, they’re pretty much doomed.
(Not throwing any blame on Becky for this, put down your pitchforks, just saying she doesn’t fit well into her assigned role for this proposed plan.)
You are 100% right, and that is one of the reasons why I love her.
Totes. Also, that wouldn’t even help. Carol started off from minute one with the passive-aggression and Becky didn’t rise to it, and now she’s escalating on her own. Even if Becky was to suffer in silence, it would still mean Carol would rant at her and Joyce would get pissed.
So, it wouldn’t have helped and on top of that, I’ve been there with the suffering ignorance in silence thing in order to be a “peace-keeper” and “salvage the evening”, it’s not terribly fun.
True. Actually, this comic would work just as well if we removed the fourth and fifth panel. Joyce is NOT going to take this for long.
From what we’ve seen so far, Carol doesn’t seem like she’s fit into her assigned role for the plan either…
Joyce is on countdown, but doubt she’s going to make it to 10. Because yeah, her mother is going to keep up the crap.
As for Becky, great answer, Carol didn’t like that one at all. Taste of reality sweetie? Fine for you to set on your ass and preach, but the child across the table from you is living the results of dear Toedaddy’s actions.
And doing just fine so far.
Are you kidding? Joyce is going to get angry and repress saying anything for months and just come to hate her mom and her background in wordless fuming silence.
But yeah, great answer Becky.
THIS. If there’s one thing that is consistent with growing up Christian, is that you respect your parents, ESPECIALLY in public or with company. The worst Joyce will do is leave early.
I’m not so sure about that. Joyce is on the edge and pretty close to the snapping point. She won’t be able to do the deflection and passively stand up for herself thing Becky’s doing here. But there’s a point past which she won’t let Becky take it either.
When she can’t repress it anymore, she’ll go loud and offensive. Joyce has a temper. Nor is this public or with company. Becky’s family and she’ll fight for her.
Joyce has moved beyond repression. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/honkin/
Joyce has already fired the shots that started this war, and neither Carol nor Joyce has forgotten that. Joyce will speak her mind (again) before this dinner is done.
Man I’m familiar with this delightful family dynamic.
http://i.imgur.com/QMcUpeM.png
It may be wrong, but Joyce’s Mom has got it goin’ on.
I guess it’s hard do not interact Joyce’s Mom at all when you can’t keep your eyes off her.
It’s because they’re filled with passive aggression!
and this proves there is no God
the devil wears mac & cheese shirts. he is tempting
Don’t you know? The only way to get good at art is to sell your soul to the dark lord.
I didn’t know Sauron was into art. Oh wait, he created the orcs…I don’t have the guts to criticise him over that.
THE FORBIDDEN ROMANCE. Carol’s heterosexism is just to keep from confronting… wait no stahp westermark effect no. Nope nope nope nope nope nope. NOOOOOOOOPE. Nope.
I prefer the “Jesus hates Figs” shirt.
The temptation of Becky
Given how much Joyce resembles her father, it seems to me we’d have better success of seeing how she may look in 20+ years by looking at any female relatives he has. Sisters, potentially his mother when younger.
Sorry for not going with your joke I guess?
Drawing-wise, the only difference between Joyce and her mom is eye color and ahead shape. Likewise the only similarity between Joyce and her father is eye color and head shape. It’s about equal.
What’s up with Carol?… while I am glad Becky deflects all with the grace of an olimpic skater to keep going just seems petty for Carol…
Nope, this not petty for Carole. This is normal for Carol.
^ This. What’s ‘up’ with Carol is her question is a thinly-veiled version of, “Why are you still bothering my daughter and not coming back to settle down in your dad’s house with a good man who will straighten you out and teach you how to be a wife and mother, until your dad gets out of prison and can go back to dictating your life to you?”
Or possibly “now that you put your dad in jail, when are you going to cash in on your free house that was definitely your motivation for all this”
Ya here it is the dinner table is all set up, Carol is running her mouth about a subject she should know is way to sensitive right now and Joyce is getting really pissed really quickly.
A great amount of table flipping coming I can feel it.
A fine and time-honored tradition in the style of Jesus H. Christ himself.
Just get Joyce a whip to chase her mom with and the image will be complete.
After being defied by her daughter over the phone, she’s been aggressively shifting the power balance back to herself since Joyce and Becky walked in the door. I can’t wait to see the rug yanked out from under her.
Forgive me my schadenfreude but meddling Christians have done plenty of damage in my life.
having a sit-down family dinner of kraft mac and cheese feels like sacrilege to me.
Maybe it’s not Kraft. Maybe there’s some special fundamentalist brand that doesn’t hire gay people or something.
Or just cheese that she melted with milk. You don’t have to get it out of a box.
Blasphemy.
BLASPHEMY!
…. okay, technically not blasphemy, and I’m sure they’re big on that technicality in that house, but STILL!
Homemade mac and cheese is the best. Especially with toasted breadcrumbs on top.
My mom’s had tomatoes and peppers and memories. Mumblety-mumble years later it’s still the only kind I make.
Stouffer’s or bust.
I can’t tell if the Mac and cheese is homemade or Kraft, but it looks like it’s a side dish.
Canada is going to declare war on you now.
For what? Dissing Macaroni and Orange Powder?
macaroni and cheese, aka “kraft dinner,” is Very Much a Thing in canada, as i found out recently. apparently canadians a lot of it, as a country. i thought it was something akin to Hamburger Helper, but no, it’s just macaroni and cheese.
eat a lot of it*
not that anyone is still reading this thread besides intrepidly thorough archival readers. hi intrepidly thorough archival readers!
hi
KRAFT DINNER!
(Now with only the finest ketchups.)
The fanciest Dijon ketchups!
It is apparently one of Joyce’s favorite meals, made in honor of her return.
The other seemingly being tacos, with all the bits kept separate. Joyce is very picky eater.
Well that’s Option 1: Loot the House off the table.
Is it bad that I heard that in Sokka’s voice?
That just means you’re doing it right.
Carol’d best get some ice on that sick burn.
You get what you give, Carol.
This is growing more tense than that Tavern scene in Inglourious Basterds.
And good question about if Becky would be eligible for victim help program?
I think she should go and get her personal effects out of the house. Maybe stuff belonging to her mother?
Grab what she can and sell it – not legal maybe, but she deserves it. I’m pretty sure Joyce would help her now. But, if she does it she needs to do it at night. Dear Carole would be one of the first to rat her out if she caught her.
Yes, she should be eligible for aid from a domestic violence shelter or program. However, most of them are running on limited resources as it is, so it would probably amount to temporary housing until she finds a job and maybe a couple sets of clothes, some basic toiletries, and the address for the local food pantry. IF she’s lucky, they might have a burn phone she can use for finding a job or contacting emergency services. (I used to donate regularly to our local CASDA office, but there was always way more demand than donations, unfortunately. 🙁 )
The only thing she is legally entitled to in her dad’s house is her Social Security card. She might get away with snitching her birth certificate (if her dad even has a copy), just because any cop who caught her with it probably wouldn’t be a dick about it. (Her parents paid for the copy in their house, so it would be her dad’s, legally. I know, because I had to shell out $25 for a copy of my daughter’s birth certificate when she was born. :p) Any clothing, furniture, jewelry, cash, even food, would have been paid for by her father, so they would legally belong to him.
Also, raiding the house at night is probably not the best idea. ‘Conservative’ neighbors tend to be snoopy neighbors, and they’re likely to call the police if they see anyone entering a house that’s supposed to be empty now that the owner is in prison.
While that might be true to the letter of the law, without Ross there to forbid it, surely the cops wouldn’t stop her taking things like her own clothes and personal possessions. Maybe not the TV, though, that’s a bit too loot-y.
Betty Anne-
All of this.
Shiro-
Depends on how much they identify with what Toedad was trying to do. Even if the real cops were forgiving, I can guarantee what passes for Neighborhood Watch will make themselves a plenty nuisance about any attempt to remove a large amount of personal possessions. And this is all presuming the Church isn’t already over there securing things for Toedad.
Well, merely paying for it wouldn’t make Becky’s stuff legally Ross’s.
She most likely still owns her clothing and such. Unless he’s operating under some bizzare Fundamentalist thing where he’s explicitly loaning her clothing that he retains ownership of, those are gifts and they belong to her.
Yup.
I dunno about American, but under Ukrainian law – that we studied at school – personal things that parents bought for their children explicitly legally belong to children. Doesn’t matter who paid for it: if they bought it FOR you, it’s yours.
Birth certificate, whatever other documents there are, clothes, books, toys, electronics, whatever. As long as it’s yours in the house, it’s yours in the court.
Strictly speaking, even the clothes she retrieved from Anderson would fall in the same category as any of her personal effects in the house. It’s not at all clear to me that clothes and other personal things necessarily belong to the parent, not the adult child – regardless of who paid for them. Some, like Christmas and birthday presents, were explicitly gifts. Others she may have bought herself if she ever had any money – even allowance kind of money. And it would be basically impossible at this point to prove what fell in what category. As Luzahn says, under any normal circumstances, a teen’s personal stuff is closer to gifts than to things her parents own but let her use.
If there weren’t police keeping her from trespassing at the house and if she doesn’t loot things that obviously weren’t hers, she’s in the clear.
As for the birth certificate, that’s hers. They didn’t buy it, they paid a processing fee. It’s a legal document identifying her. It’s of no use to them. It’s not really a possession.
I totally figured it was mac n cheese for some reason. But what’s the other favorite food?
Also, fuckyeah Becky, fuckyeah Hank, and I’m going to presume based on past actions that Joyce is righteously angry on her best friend’s behalf, so fuckyeah Joyce. And fuckyeah Snoop because who’s a good puppy?
Fuckno Carol. Fuck you, Carol.
Oh, looks like mashed potatoes.
Tacos, with all the parts kept separate.
“Just making conversation” my left tit. You are a massive shit-stirrer.
We see u Carol
Becky has clearly been preparing for the horrible shit Other Mom was going to say tonight. She’s a fucking hero.
Really? Because that seemed like an improvised off-the-cuff counter-suplex to me.
Agreed. I think it’s just that Becky’s that much of a badass.
Yes. Less ‘prepared by figuring out exact words’ and more ‘is aware her Other Mom is going to say stupid horrible shit’. Joyce, in contrast, seems less prepared.
I think Carol is about to receive her first “DAMN” from her angelic daughter!
That, or Joyce might throw her first F-bomb… No matter what, drama is here.
A “GODFUCKINGDAMMIT” would be nice. (Not likely to happen, but…nice. XD)
While simultaneously being the opposite of nice.
BECAUSE LOGIC!
What about you, mom?
flip you
No, mom, what about you?
best movie reference yet
What is the deal in this situation? Could Becky sell the house and pocket the money herself or would it go to Toedad? Also I don’t normally condone violence against someone being an a-hole but that third panel smug, sanctimonious innocent crap look shes got going on is really aggravating…
She’s not the owner of the house. If someone was to sell it with Toedad’s permission, the money would likely go to him, albeit with potential restrictions. She could try and loot the house for valuables, but honestly, that first line makes it seem like Toedad’s house is not even in the same city not to mention her old Church is probably already there securing treasured valuables and planning prayer circles for the “martyr”. Which means Sunday is going to be fuuuuuuuuun.
I’d assume Ross’s house is still in La Porte. Or att least not that far away from La Porte. Carol is asking why Becky is sticking around where the university is instead of coming back to La Porte.
Ah, that makes sense. I got flipped around on my Indiana geography.
And in the real world, the house would be sold by Toedad’s defense lawyers to pay for his defense.
Yeah true, forgot about that
Ahh ok and I’m guessing because Becky is 18 she can’t access any money the house sale may bring in as shes not a minor?
Well that sucks the big one
She isn’t a minor, she just doesn’t own the house.
oh.
oh no i didn’t think about Church on Sunday.
oh no
What’s more, it’s a topic that the church… congregation? Parishoners? Flock?… have had a week to talk about and the pastor/minister/priest/whatever has had a week to write a sermon about it.
… and that is now my revised prediction as to when Joyceuvius will finally blow her top. During the sermon, in the middle of everyone.
…. is there a betting pool yet?
Yup, that Sunday Church scene is going to be brutal and probably even more passive-aggressive than Carol is managing. Becky has the patience of a saint to be agreeing to go through all of this.
Possibly even more aggressive-aggressive. The sermon is going to be all about Ross. And quite possibly all about trying to save Becky, especially if Carol’s let them know she’s coming.
Ooh right, that’s a thing. That’ll be fuuun. So many uncomfortable yet enlightening revelations will happen.
Becky doesn’t own the house, so, unless her father signed it over to her I doubt she could. The housing situation depends on several factors, like how long Toedad is going to prison for, and how much is his Mortgage for, and if he qualifies for some type of assistance.
If he was smart, Toedad should sell the home before it forecloses. Either way, if Becky has anything in there she wants to hold onto, she’d better get it out soon.
Oh man, so much in this one. From Joyce’s death glare, Hank’s futile attempt at peacekeeping and reminding Carol why exactly Joyce is visiting, and Carol just giving no fucks about propriety or humanity, because gosh darnitt, a sin is a sin and she’s got to be seen as pious and ministering about it, instead of just being a decent person and supporting her daughter and the hell she’s been through.
And then Becky. Becky’s got too much patience for this kind of crap and has learned how to be incredibly slick in just rolling with punches like that, flipping it around, and seeking to disarm. We’ve got a chilling idea of what daily life must have been like with Mr. Everything is a Direct Challenge to my Authority and God.
And the thing is, she’s good at this. She’s great at navigating these awful spaces, but I know from experience that this has to be eating her up like rats in her chest to just swallow that hate and still play nice (because if you fight back, then you’re the real villain).
I don’t know if she fully prepared for how incredibly awful this weekend is going to be for her.
I suspect that she sees anything that isn’t threatening her life as an improvement. I think that’s part of why Becky is so chill while Joyce has a hard time — Becky has already weathered the worst hostility, while Joyce faces hatred for the first time. Although it probably has more to do with their innate temperaments. Becky is just magnificently resilient.
Yep. She’s handling herself pretty well given the circumstances are, in spite of being basically the best possible scenario for a homeless gay teen, STILL MASSIVELY AWFUL because she is still a homeless gay teen.
I have a feeling that Carol is completely unprepared for how (justifiably) awful her weekend is going to be…
I’m sure she didn’t need those femurs anyways.
She’s where Joyce got her genes that require femurs for life.
Yeah, Becky is really good at navigating these things. Even when she answers the barbs she leaves the option of deescalation.
Also, no one is chasing her with a gun so Becky feels comparably safe.
Not that I’m in any way siding with toemom here, but getting the last word and then effectively saying “but anyway, let’s just all move on” isn’t really deescalation.
It is in that sort of situation.
When you’ve got a family member entirely focused in attacking you for your identity and making that into a fight, politely answering a fucked up question calmly and with facts and then changing the subject can be absolutely the only way to deescalate things and stop the runaway train of abuse.
And yes, I’m sadly speaking from experience there.
Anyone else imagine Cerberus IRL as a giant three headed dog, but with Roz heads instead, constantly giving constructive feedback and comments instead of barking?
Yeah, this.
If you don’t engage in some sort of verbal self-defense, other people at the table will blame you for not standing up for yourself. If you engage in too vigorous verbal self-defense (if you lose your temper and yell, frex), others will blame you for “sass” or “disrespect” if the person outranks you or just blame you for “ruining the evening” if they don’t outrank you. It’s a very fine line to walk that I’ve never been good at walking. But it’s a matter of recruiting help from bystanders by making it obvious what’s going on is hurtful to you and wrong but without acting out in a way that makes it easy to victim-blame you as “giving as good as you get” or whatever, or without seeming like a pushover who deserves it because why won’t you stand up for yourself, it it bugs you that much. At the same time, you can’t make it too obvious that you’re seeking backup, because people tend to react poorly to a person who’s directly asking to be saved from someone bullying them, because they think you’re “making them choose sides” and “being unfair” to them or whatever. I am shite at it, but I know how it goes when it works.
It’s a very hard and emotionally trying line to walk, and Becky is so practiced at it, I feel a lot of sympathy for her because I can tell she’s had to do it a lot. Probably since before her mom died.
Later it’s revealed that Carol and Toedad were having an affair and her bitterness is lover’s spite rather than Fundie’s hate.
I’d say that’d be surprising, but the amount of fundies I’ve known who have had affairs, this would actually just be in character honestly.
Thats what always bugged me about fundie types, the rank hypocrisy. I’ve had conversations with fundies where I’ve explained my view things like relationships and such like and my view is if you’re single and its consensual then bang whoever you like whenever you like its all good but if you’re in a relationship you’re monogamous simple as that, you wanna bang someone else then you break up with your current
Yet the amount of fundies that’ve tut-tutted that attitude yet turns out they’ve cheated on past boyfriends/girlsfriends is really high
Not to mention the family values politicians and high profile ministers that’ve been lead astray
it’s a bit of cognitive dissonance for me considering they both count themselves as devout christians, but my dad and stepmom were committing adultery together for quite a while before she was able to divorce her ex-husband, wait the requisite six months, and marry my dad. they even did the whole “living in sin” thing.
(not that i fault them for any of that, the ex wasn’t exactly a prize. paranoid meth addict who planted cameras around his house, etc. it’s just the picking and choosing which church laws to follow while disregarding certain fundamentals like staying faithful to even one’s shit-spouse that seems a little weird to me.)
Followed by the shock revelation that BOTH Joyce and Becky are actually Carols daughters by Toedad, thus driving a wedge between Joyce and Hank, deepening Joyces trauma about being theatened by Toedad (now actual dad), and causing Hank to retreat into a bitter period of alcohol and repressed anger/shame. Not to mention what this puts Becky through when she realises she’s been crushing on her sister all this time.
Oh wait. This is DOA, not Days of our lives. Disregard. 🙂
I don’t know how. How else do you explain Joyce sharing toedad’s joyful blue eyes?
Yeah, Joyce is DEFINITELY Hank’s kid. My dad and I look about as much alike, and used to even more when I was younger — Mom always said if she hadn’t carried me she wouldn’t know I was hers.
Yup. I’m not expecting that reveal, but it wouldn’t shock me.
I can see that.
At least Joyce is winning the angry-face-off.
Seriously, I think that’s the best one yet.
Normally I’d call that a legitimate question from Carol, but between the greeting Becky got from her and the reactions from Hank and Joyce, I kinda doubt it was said in a genuinely friendly manner.
Agreed. It’s something the commenters have been wondering, too, but from the timing and the other characters’ reactions, I think it came out very much like “So, when are you leaving? How about very soon.”
Subtext matters. Carol’s concern is “When will you go away and stop corrupting my family?” The one of the commenters here is concern for Becky’s welfare, because she needs her vital papers and personal property.
Very true.
It’s in the phrasing. Someone who was genuinely concerned about Becky and her living arrangements would have phrased it something along the lines of, “So what’s your plans? Are you going to live at your dad’s place, or is that too trying?” or “How are you getting along? Do you have a safe place to stay arranged?” or “Do you need help making arrangements? I can’t imagine the university is going to let you stay there much longer. I can help you look for a place.” or whatever.
Carol’s phrasing makes it very clear her primary concern is in getting Becky away from Joyce.
And even that’s a long way removed from “You’ve always been practically like another daughter to us. You’re welcome here anytime, if you need a place to stay.”
Which is the only acceptable response in this situation.
Yeahthis.
I would say this is probably going to get worse before it gets better, but that assumes that things will get better.
Ah yes … “Jus’sayin'” The phrase which, along with its variants, is a reliable indicator that the immediately preceding utterance should earn the utterer a face-first trip into an unflushed toilet bowl.
Close cousin of “I don’t mean to be rude, but…”
And “Now, I’m not a [bigot], but…”
And “I don’t have a problem with [insert whatever here], but…”
That’s… actually a pretty decent plan.
From Becky.
Is it April 1 already?
Nope!
Actually she’s been kind of on the ball as far as trying to get a new life going. She’s hit a lot of “oh hey I didn’t know that’s how the world works” snags but she was job-hunting from her first day in Bloomington. I think she compensates for her lack of organization with sheer raw energy.
Definitely this. Not to mention she’s scary good at crisis management. Like, when she’s got 3 and a half seconds to come up with a plan or else, she’s been incredibly on the ball. Her slick 911 call and distraction with Toedad in the car. Her splitting up plan for escaping Toedad. Getting herself out of Anderson and on a bus to Joyce when she was being dragged away the first time. Her sacrifice at the fountain. Her insta-pack when it turned out Hank was super early.
She’s good in the “go, go, go” moments and this is definitely one of those.
Speaking as a person with executive function issues: A lot of us find stimulants like adrenaline helpful in finding organization and overcoming the inertia associated with executive function issues. I read Becky as having some type of executive dysfunction (maiiinly because she reminds me a lot of folks I know with ADHD), and the whole, “Seems like a scattered flake most of the time but actually scary good at crisis management and seems to thrive when their life is a series of crises and then falls apart again the moment things calm down” is pretty typical of most folks I know with EF issues (me included).
hi this is me
one of the reasons i love don’t starve
I honestly don’t even think Becky’s being malicious here. This is a legitimate line of reasoning. Like, yeah, there’s no point in living in a house I can’t afford, especially considering I plan on simply enrolling in IU as soon as possible. And there’d be no point in her staying in that house unless she had lighting, gas, electricity, etc. all prepaid for her like it is at a dorm, then there’s no point in her staying there at all really. If I were Becky I’d try to find one of the Shelters that Leslie was talking about and stay there until I can get enrolled in school.
I don’t think she is, either. That’s just realistically the situation she’s in, but I do think she relished the blow all the same. As well she should.
Yeah, it’s totally what she can do. Staying there would separate her from her support network and put her at risk of being taken away to a Reparative Therapy Camp and besides, she’d have to jump ship in maximum 2 months as lights, power, and water started getting shut off.
It really is best for her that the place goes under and she can use that fact in her FAFSA paperwork. Luckily her dad’s income is also about to crater into the toilet so that will be in her favor as well (parent’s income can still be used against homeless youth, even if said youth are disowned).
Honestly, she’s got her head on her shoulders as to digging herself out of her hole and getting into education to be a scientist. It’s just a matter of adapting on the fly as needed as things continue to be massively unstable in the short term.
She does need to start talking to the University’s financial aid people soonest. While normally the parent’s income counts, there are things they can do in extreme situations and I think “Father is charged with attempted kidnapping of me. I can’t expect any support. And he has no more income now anyway.” counts.
I don’t know about shelters in Indiana, but here in NY, they are scary bad places to live. I’d rather sleep on a bench. (Hopefully, a woman’s shelter or domestic abuse shelter is safer, I haven’t been to those.)
Shelters also tend to discriminate against queer youth largely because a lot of aid organizations are either religiously defined or are funded by donors with particular views that shelters are afraid of running up against. As such, queer homeless youth tend to be more likely than their peers to end up outside and without aid outside of what they can scramble together.
It’s a large part of why sex work is frequently a major part of queer history, especially for trans women of color, as it was the only industry that would “hire” queer youth and allow them to survive on the streets without any other form of aid (and sadly still is for too much of our population).
Becky would be taking a major gamble in doing that unless Leslie knew some good resources personally (which she may very well do).
The reality is that Bloomington has fewer options for women than men and even then I think most, if not all, are faith based. She could very well get turned away.
Truth be told, I think that when she gets caught the university might put her up in the dorm for the remainder of the semester anyways. There are still people who were refugees from Hurricane Katrina that the university still houses 10 years later.
That makes sense. That tends to be the situation everywhere.
In my region, our homeless shelters are not run by religious organizations, so they don’t discriminate on that basis, but classism is a real problem in my city so the fucking Mayor and his fucking henchmen and women on City Council literally go out of their goddamn ways to make shit miserable for homeless people and make it impossible for the shelters (which have been operating over maximum intended capacity for years now) to expand. Especially if they’re trying to expand to help the local queer community.
So even when the shelter itself isn’t discriminatory, intentional resource shortages and action by the City might be.
I think it’s both. It’s obviously a VERY uncomfortable topic so she wouldn’t bring it up herself, but it worked nicely as a riposte to Carol’s barb. It reminds her what the stakes actually are and how incredibly petty it is for Carol to sit in her comfortable house and be passive aggressive to a homeless kid.
The fact that it was all true only makes it better.
I’m surprised I haven’t read any comments yet about how Becky is somehow being an ungrateful bongo for declining such wonderful advice or asking for seconds or… something.
Yeah, it’s nice. But I’m definitely on guard nonetheless.
Yeah, but she KNOWS Joyce’s mom would drop dead before paying. It was a light jab, hopefully one of many.
If I was Becky, I’d be doing pretty much what she’s doing. Couch surfing with friends is generally better than Shelters, even if you can get into one. Neither is a very stable situation, but the couch surfing is safer.
I would be looking into shelters, in case it came to that. And at other resources in the area. But trying to find a job comes first.
And talking to Leslie, dammit.
http://i.imgur.com/3ukr7zF.png
I’m convinced Joyce’s dad is just Mike from Shortpacked!.
He traveled through the dimensions drunk and stayed that way.
You are spoiling us with fanart today, Yotomoe!
Also I like how you draw Becky’s rad haircut. Super cute.
“I mean that ass… daaaaang”
“I can not confirm nor deny anything…”
Man you’ve been killing it tonight.
Also I’d do it for the ass.
Love dis too XD
Waiting for Joyce to just lunge across the table and bite her mom.
Personally I think there will be table flipping.
Yeah, there’s pretty solid scriptural precedent for flipping a table when somebody’s using the surrounding building wrong. Temples are for prayer, not money-changing; homes are for hospitality, not victim-blaming.
So does anybody have an opinion on Gray and Grey Morality? Nothing to do with this strip, or maybe it does. I’m under the assumption that Carol hates what she doesn’t
want tounderstand.Still I feel like it’d be interesting to see the comments section here put their thoughts on Grey and Gray Morality.
i think ideally most stories should be at least a little grey on both sides.
making things black and white is boring. showing an antagonist as sympathetic or understandable doesnt have to mean theyre right after all.
Right? Gonna’ use Gargoyles as an example here, but there’s a point in the series where Macbeth(THE Macbeth), captures the clan and holds them hostage and junk, but doesn’t attack them while they’re stone during the day.
Now this seems like a horrible thing for someone to do, but in the end it turns out he’s just looking for another Gargoyle that he has a very LONG history with, mostly a bad one, and when he finds out that the Clan has nothing to do with her anymore, he lets them go and tries his best to explain why he did that.
It could’ve easily been a “I was scorned by a Gargoyle so all Gargoyles must pay” sorta plot, but it didn’t turn out that way.
Honestly just check out Gargoyles, all of it, it’s a great example of what someone can do with a animated tv series.
I am firmly behind any checking out of Gargoyles.
A billion reboots released in big-budget kickass summer movie format every damn year and we STILL have no Gargoyles 2.0
And people wonder why I don’t believe in God
Yeah. In real life, people who are jerks tend to just be jerks, no tragic backstory necessary. However, that’s usually not fun to read about, unless it’s contrasted with more cartoony, muahaha, evil for the sake of evil sort of bad guy.
I honestly believe, from a writing standpoint, The more gray your morality is, the more you respect your reader’s ability to form an opinion of a character without spelling out “They’re a bad guy” or “They’re a good guy”. Forces the viewer to form their own opinions on whether they agree with the protagonist or not. Or even if they agree with the antagonist.
I agree that villains should always be complex and interesting, but I don’t think that always manifests as Gray/Grey morality. A clash of ideals where both sides are flawed is fine and dandy but sometimes folks are just giant douchebags.
To use an example you’re really fond of, Dio Brando is a grade A horrible asshole, but you see his downfall and what drives him, and in Stone Ocean we see him actually form a normal relationship with somebody. He never stops being the dog kicking vampire who drops steamrollers onto dudes, except without seeing why he is the man he is today, his genuine bond of brotherly love for Jonathan, and his (possibly romantic) relationship with Pucci, he’d be far less compelling. He needed to be developed without losing his edge.
If yesterday’s comic had been centered on Becky instead of Sal and Billie :
All panels showing Becky, gradually closer up for each frame. All panels showing Becky’s line of thought.
Panel 1: “Oh right, Mrs. Brown, so this this what you want?”
Panel 2: “Well, then, I only have this to say.”
Panel 3: “It.”
Panel 4: “Is.”
Panel 5: “On.”
Not very original, or much of a punchline, but it is now my headcanon, and I’ll stick with it.
Yup! Becky gave Carol the first one for free, this time she bites back.
Oooops, Are you sure about that apron, Carol, because that was a SICK BURN!!!
I’m pretty sure that burn was so hot, it instantly evaporated Becky’s food. Her asking for more is basically her way of rubbing this fact in.
Well I think we now know where all of the religious extreme fundamentalist nonsense comes from in this family. I mean Joyce’s dad probably is somewhat fundamentalist, but I think the judgemental “holier than thou” reject all things outside of the bubble of ignorance part is definitely 90% from the mom here.
Yay, I only need to despise one of them!
Nah, I’d say that’s also coming from him. Quite likely that they both come from the same subculture.
I still remember him finding out that Joyce had a friend that was an atheist… and then finding out that it might not just be a phase.
At least he’s getting better…
It’s interesting to see what direction they move in when their beliefs are challenged by their daughter. Hank responds with self-searching and seeking to understand. Carol digs her heels in harder. The two of them growing at different rates and in different directions is well-written and realistic.
Carol just hates it when people shorten words. That’s all that’s going on here. Yup. Make zero assumptions past this and it is far less frustrating.
Your brain seems like a much nicer place than the real world? Can I stay in there for a while?
I don’t know, if they’re already at this point over accent and/or vocabulary differences, imagine if the conversation turns to politics, religion, or god forbid sports!
I’ve had the worst, most horrifically uncomfortable family dinner over Xmas and this is just bringing up all sorts of traumatic flashbacks to that and just. YES. This is exactly what this kind of situation is like. It just hits really close in a really good, cathartic way. Love this.
*hugs*
And yeah, having been through that sort of shit a lot as well, I can definitely say Willis hit the nail on the head as to how it goes and how it feels. Like, yup, passive-aggressive dig, “just asking questions”, implying wrongdoing just for existing, check check check.
Thank you <3 If my friend hadn't rescued me and took me to see Star Wars the next day, I would have ended up crying for a week in my mom's guest bedroom, because maaaan, it was just SO exhausting. Man, even my only ally at the dinner table ended up turning on me (and he also said some weird racist shit, which is a whole different story), it was the weirdest night ever. Sigh. Families, amirite?
*hugs you back*
If only we could shoot family members into space…
You can, for a small fee, when they die.
Ready the murder tools.
I predict at some point a joke that is very obviously an attack at Becky, with a defense of, “Lighten up, you have no sense of humor.” at some point, too. Cuuuuzyeah. If the passive-aggressive-bordering-on-aggressive jabbing doesn’t work, I’ll be aggressive-aggressive and try to cover it up with humor to provoke you into reacting and then play the victim and pretend it’s all your fault for having “no sense of ha-ha”.
(can you tell I live in a family where if initial passive-aggression doesn’t provoke the desired reaction, they let it lie for a few hours and then move on to “jokes” that aren’t jokes?)
Jesus Joyce’s face. That is a murder face if I ever did see one.
It still hasn’t sunk in with Carol that Becky is a victim here. Not even sure if Hank fully get’s it, but at least he’s trying to be considerate.
In her eyes, she’s not a victim, she’s gay. Gay people are not victims to her, not matter what, they are sinners, they are doing violence unto God and God-fearing people. And to Carol, Becky has already “destroyed” one family with her hateful gayitude and so Carol is laying down the law that she shall not “destroy” another.
It’s the attitude that gets “good Christians” of Carol’s type of flock to argue against anti-bullying laws because they are “unchristian” and “unfairly malign those who preach God’s love”. It’s the attitude that leads them to fight against anti-discrimination laws for the same reason and to bitterly fight any homeless shelter that doesn’t turn out queer youth onto the streets.
To them, a queer youth, homeless and having faced violence, is not something of pity, but an enemy that is seeking to destroy the world. An enemy that must be stopped at any cost.
And so Carol follows her idea of God. And fights back against Becky’s “bullying” (by existing in her home), by any means necessary outside of physical violence.
It’s a twisted worldview to be sure but I suppose it lets off empathy quite nicely to assume that battered and homeless queer youth are evil-doers that deserve it rather than individuals deserving of mercy, pity, and support.
Carol can only see Becky as the sinner and her dad trying to “save” her by any means was acceptable. Standard issue fundie blinders.
No, see, everything that’s happened to Becky is her fault. She has sinned against God with her filthy girl-smooching ways, and so bad things happened to her. Really, anyone to whom bad things happen must have done something sinful to deserve it, or otherwise God wouldn’t have let it happen. And of course Becky’s awful sin is the reason her upstanding, godly father was imprisoned for merely trying to bring her back to God.
These people’s answer to the age-old question, “If God is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and so on, why do bad things happen to people who don’t deserve it?” is “They don’t!”
Totes this!
It’s the just-world fallacy in all it’s Calvinist glory. God wouldn’t create an unfair world (the logic goes), therefore those who are wealthy and have easier lives must have gained their success from their inherent goodliness, whereas those who suffer in life must have sinned to deserve their suffering. Thus, the effects of discrimination and hate can be said to be the “natural consequences” of said “sin”, whereas the money that pastors fleece from their flock is proof of how godly they are and how much worthier they are of that social security check.
It’s a twisted little worldview but it sustains a lot of awful in the world.
I agree that this is often what I hear, but the argument always bugs me, because it phrases this as if it’s a choice whether to sin, and it’s just that the “sinner” was weak and morally infirm.
And, like. That just makes me think. They legitimately think that you’re CHOOSING to do this? Like. Are they saying that they also are deeply, meaningfully attracted to people of the same gender, but that they’ve managed to resist this? Or are they saying that HAVING the urge is inherently a moral failing? Because that’s harder to swallow under anything but calvinism.
It’s… ugh, how to explain it. Okay, so basically, in their minds gayness isn’t an orientation, it’s a choice to piss in the face of Christ. In their heads, no one has sexual attraction to the other sex… unless it is so put into another person’s head by vile evil homosexuals seeking to recruit with their sexy Satanic promises of defying one’s in-born gender roles.
So of course, no one is born like that. They are either recruited and become recruiters themselves and must be stopped. They have been targeted, but they’re valiantly fighting off Satan and recommitting themselves to the Lord. Or they are “normal”.
And those who claim to be born queer are lying to hide how they’ve freely given in to sin. So the choice is either in not resisting Satan’s wiles or in choosing to join Satan and reject God.
And yeah, as you note, it’s sometimes rather inconsistent how they think the whole system works. Honestly, I think which argument gets more time directly depends on whether or not the individual making the argument is “burying” some of their attractions to the same gender or not.
So, “recruitment” gets more play with those who do harbor some same-gender attractions, whereas it being just a straight up choice like a teenager choosing to listen to music his parents hate to piss them off, if they don’t.
And yeah, no matter what, it’s all stupid as fuck.
Or, as they used to put it, “homosexuals” want to rape your children, give them AIDS, and turn them gay, because “they can’t reproduce any other way.” That’s the male version, of course, but the lesbian/bi version isn’t really any different.
So if you’re thinking that in the 1980s they basically ported vampirism myths directly over to queers and it’s been there ever since, that is exactly right.
Legitimately, a lot of them do. A lot of them genuinely do.
It maybe makes more sense (from a certain point of view) if you take into account that they think that Satan is a real and insidious power that’s actively trying to corrupt people away from God. Those sinful thoughts about how sweet smooching on Joyce would be? Those aren’t God’s thoughts. Satan put those in Becky’s head. And Becky was weak and gave in to Satan.
(Remember, all the good you do is God acting through you. The bad…?)
And, yeah, a lot of the loudest homophobic voices do have deep and meaningful attractions to people of the same sex, which is demonstrated when they fail in their effort to resist them as they were taught and get caught trying to pick up dudes in a truck stop bathroom or sexually harassing their same-sex interns. (I’m not making these up.) The others? Well, they’re just lucky not to have been targeted by Satan in that way.
Yeah, this.
Also a lot of them have this Calvanist Just World point of view going on – so if your life is sweet and comfortable, you must be a good person. If you are suffering, it’s because God is trying to let you know you are straying from his path. And, yeah, there are some who would take “Other people attacked me violently because of who I am” as evidence that God thought you needed correction.
I know. I had it happen to me. More than once.
But yeah, it becomes this nasty self-fulfilling prophecy where they see people being terrible to queer kids as well maybe they went too far but maybe God wouldn’t have had to use them that way if the queer kids were a bit better at resisting temptation.
WHY ARE YOU STILL HANGING AROUND POTENTIALLY CORRUPTING MY INNOCENT DAUGHTER INSTEAD OF MOVING BACK TO YOUR FATHER’S HOUSE WHERE WE GOOD GODLY PEOPLE COULD FIND YOU AND RE-BRAINWASH YOU???
What? Just making conversation.
Yup, that’s pretty much the subtext in a nutshell, ain’t it?
She can speak in HTML tags.
You know what’s extra fucked up? I don’t think Joyce has actually gotten her hug yet. Like, her own daughter, who nearly died earlier this week, doesn’t even get a token of human compassion, because Carol got an opportunity to preach that “good gospel” about teh homo-sex-u-alls queering up her home.
It’s her valuing her twisted politics and religion over the humanity of her husband, daughter, and most certainly her practically a daughter. And that is something that really defines her and probably defines her real world analogue.
Oh, geez, she hasn’t, has she? Man, I already hated Carol, but not even a hug for the child whom she would apparently “die for”?
She’d die for her, but she won’t change and she won’t even show human compassion for all she’s been through.
Joyce is merely a prop for her to play the part of “good mother” at. A soul to save to punch her ticked into Heaven and be seen with her whole set of loved ones unlike some people.
I think Willis wrote about how that sort of thing feels on his blog a bit ago:
http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/133847635397/i-dont-talk-to-my-mom-anymore-whenever-we-had
T_T
Yeah. Joyce isn’t a person to Carol. She’s a little doll to be dressed up and paraded around to show what a Good Christian Mother Carol is. Carol’s love is strictly conditional on Joyce playing the puppet without complaint or critical thought or – god forbid – expression of free will.
Since Joyce is rebelling (starting to think for herself), Carol’s affection goes away. If Joyce back-slides and starts acting the perfect doll again, Carol will become all smiles and loves and praise again. “My most perfect daughter…” etc.
Well, obviously, Joyce’s prolonged presence around Becky and her irrational behaviour to Ross’ attempt to rescue his daughter from an unholy life of sin and debauchery is evidence that her sweet innocent daughter has been contaminated. She can’t hug her until all her clothes have been properly purged of any and all mind-altering contagious substances. Preferably with gasoline and Bible verses.
I noticed that right away and my hackles went straight up. It’s more than just a ministry opportunity. It’s an abusive power grab. Carol and Joyce had a ‘great’ relationship back when Joyce unquestioningly worshiped, respected and loved her “Most Perfectest Mom.” Now Carol sees her daughter expressing autonomy in the relationship. She doesn’t like that. And now it’s time to punish her for it.
It’s not the fire-and-brimstone imagery that makes hell scary to Christians. It’s the complete rejection of god’s love and mercy. To someone raised in that environment, withholding love is the closest thing you can do to recreate hell on Earth for them. Carol is doing that shit ON PURPOSE.
Hank is letting go of control. Carol is taking it back through any means necessary. Including torturing her own daughter in the most existential-yet-personal, fucked-up way she knows how. Watching her do it with a smile on her face makes me see red. Fuck, writing this post is literally making me shake with anger.
That’s what really strikes me about this strip. Like, your daughter who got a gun pointed at her a few days ago and could have died is RIGHT HERE, but Carol’s hardly paying any attention to her. She’s not doting on Joyce or even making innocuous small talk – she’s essentially ignoring her daughter in favor of spitting on Becky (passive-aggressively, for plausible conversational deniability, of course).
Of course, Joyce is the one who has been sheltering Becky and vocally supporting her even in defiance of her parents – and a history of defending an atheist friend, to boot! So I guess it’s not really an oversight of Joyce after all, but rather an intentional secondary cruelty.
Sometimes the little children just need a hard lesson in what happens if they keep acting like Jesus Christ, I guess.
“Dear Miss Manners*,
My daughters best friend who practically grew up under my roof has recently lost her family in tragic and traumatizing circumstances and is now homeless. My daughter – as the good Christian she is – has gone out of her way to help her and made clear that she will continue to do so. However, I find that I blame the girl for the incident and I don’t agree with her sexuality. I also fear that she will lead my daughter astray.
Now my daughter has brought her home over the weekend. With her parents gone this is the closest thing she has to a home, and the friendship with my daughter is her biggest lifeline. Should I keep up a facade, make her feel as welcome as I can and talk privately to my daughter about my concerns? Should I even go as far as trying to help the girl with the practicalities, since she has practically nothing?”
– Cooking not burning –
“Dear Cooking,
Of course not. Your best course of action is obviously to be as passive-aggressive as you can, make the girl feel unwelcome and send a clear message to your daughter that she will have to chose between you and your friend. Try to add some victim blaming if possible and don’t forget to milk the fact that you are on your turf and the girl literary has nowhere to go for everything it’s worth. Only good things can come from that.
Good luck and enjoy your husband’s and daughter’s admiration.
Miss Manners”
*) I totally stole that joke from Leorale
Heh, this actually reminds me of various Dear X type letters writing by homophobes wanting validation for shitting on their queer family members or neighbors that have been completely shut down by the person they wrote to.
For example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/ask-amy-parent-pressures-gay-son-to-change/2013/11/12/a46984d0-4815-11e3-bf0c-cebf37c6f484_story.html
Dear Amy
Regarding your response to the letter by BETRAYED…
Thank you. That is all.
Sincerely.
Fuck yeah Amy!
GAAAAAH, I GOT HORRIBLENESS IN MY EYES…. I’m glad for the answer, though.
Oof, the self-absorption in that one was scary. Whose first worry is about their friends making fun of them in that situation?
I mean, even for a bigot you’d think the first thought would be worry for your son’s soul, or whatever they believe being gay does to you.
I like the one where someone complains about some gay/unmarried/wrong religion/etc people who move in to the are and asks “How can I make this neighborhood decent again?”
‘You could move.’
Also, the soup one.
Yaay to both of the above. ^^
For the record, I just checked and the actual Miss Manners is cool about gay people. 🙂 Sometimes she is magnificently passive-aggressive/snarky towards people who aren’t, and it’s hilarious.
this reminds me of the “that bad advice you wanted” tumblr. i’m pretty sure there was at least one “how DARE that person BE GAY at you!” entry.
Gosh, Joyce, I had no idea your Mom was such a 32-karat bongo.
Honestly, this whole thing would be hilarious to me if it ended with Hank revealing to everyone that he’s gay. Then Carol can enjoy being trapped alone in her hate hole.
That would also give further proof to the theory that Hank is alternate universe Mike. “I’m whatever you don’t want me to be, baby”, anyone?
Damn you! That would be great! Or something. I don’t know. It would be something and the drama bomb would take out La Porte
Oh sweet mercy, that is such a good response from Becky. I couldn’t be more proud of her… I love when stating cold hard facts is all you gotta do to put someone in their place (and ultimately piss them off).
I have my fingers crossed for how things turn out for Joyce during this trip, but… even without Becky there, I think something bad would be imminent. Joyce has had so many revelations of negativity in her life, she’s a powder keg ready to explode. And her mom’s gonna set that off.
“I love when stating cold hard facts is all you gotta do to put someone in their place”
I myself am horrible at this*, but I know two people that are goddamn masters of it. One of them is English, so naturally, he also puts in the extra layer of politeness on top. Can you imagine how infuriating that must be on the receiving end of -that-?
*It is one of the few things I do try to get better at, but seem to constantly fail. That is also one of my few regrets in life.
Why do I get the feeling that Willis is watching the comments like a hawk tonight?
Random Jerk Commenter: Carol makes some good points…
Willis: Nope! (Deletes Comment)
Eh, I doubt it, tbh, guys got babies that are like a month old. They kinda demand attention at all times.
Okay Zack While I change your brother, its your job to moderate the comments.
“Diarrhea diapers* or comment section… decisions decisions…”
*) Is there such a thing as Baby Punk? That would be a good name for a band.
There’s Baby Metal…
That’s really cool!
“Word-diarrhea, or ACTUAL diarrhea?
………………….
Yeah I’ll just close the comment section tonight.”
I think the choice was made clear not too long ago
Exactly. At this point (from my experience anyways), if Mephistopheles was to turn up and do the whole Faust bit, he wouldn’t have to offer more than “an uninterrupted full nights sleep” to get both of them to shout “WHERE DO WE SIGN?” 🙂
Ah good ol’ Random Jerk Commenter. Remember all the good times? Like it was just yesterday…
~woooOooOooodooOoooOooOdoooOooOdOooOdO~
Random Jerk Commenter:”I don’t see why Amber is so mad! It’s not like Sal put a knife up to her neck!”
~woooOooOooodooOoooOooOdoooOooOdOooOdO~
Ahh, good times, good times.
It makes me want to try to fake him out.
Carol makes some good points… toast points, for a snack.
I find myself agreeing with Carol… when she talks about something other than her fundamentalism.
Look, Becky’s really the one to blame… for being awesome!
Joyce should honor her mother… by doing the dishes after politely but firmly disagreeing with her homophobia.
“ok, but carol, do YOU actually WANT me as a neighbor?”
I really like what you did with the panels here
That he should at least go to her house and get food and clothes for Bloomington. She could also get some stuff that her butthole dad owned to pawn or even get a t.v. and dvd player for Billy and Sal’s room an a thanks. Maybe get things her mother used to own.
Minor point: I think Billy already has a TV. (Remember, before they hooked up, Ruth used her key to break into Billie’s room so that they could watch sports.
Could be a large computer monitor, but I’m pretty sure its a TV… Ruth was using a remote control (something you don’t normally associate with monitors).
I do wonder what happened to it when Billie moved in with Ruth, since I don’t remember seeing her carry it.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/serial/
Is she mad because she disagrees with her being ‘homeless’ for student aid, or for the idea of paying for her homes facilities
I think she’s mad that Becky is not cowering to her “motherly powers of guilt” or something.
It did look like “how dare you stand up to me in my own home, you should be grateful I’m even letting you have dinner”
“You have torn apart your home with your sin, and you are threatening to tear apart mine! I MUST DEFEND WHAT IS MINE BY RIPPING YOU TO SHREDS LIKE A MAMA HAWK!”
Hate is funny like that. It’s never about “I have decided to hurt this person,” it’s always about “I am in danger if I don’t violently and preemptively hurt this person who has done nothing to me personally.” But people don’t THINK about that.
Yup, it’s why hate movements always invent conspiracy theories about why the powerless people they are going up against are secretly all powerful and insidious, running the entire world or ploting to literally murder people in their beds and so on.
As you note, to Carol, Becky is not a scared queer kid trying to hold on to the few pieces she has left and put her life back together from literal nothing. She’s an all-powerful infectious force that means her household harm. That way any means of abuse and passive-aggression is justified to “defend”
She’s mad because Becky still hasn’t repented in tears for her perversion and betrayal of her father.
I think the comment about moving back into her father’s house was intended to be a thinly-veiled nudge at Becky to get away from Joyce and stop “corrupting” her. And if Becky had expressed any interest in the house, I bet Carol would have started on some passive-aggressive spiel about how Becky is “mooching” off her father’s property and oh, how could she do that after she betrayed him??
Then Becky blithely points out that she’s actually homeless, hasn’t benefited in any way from this whole clusterfuck, and is intending to go to IU and make something of herself from the absolute bottom. This is a perfect retaliation, because it politely, but firmly makes it clear that no, Becky is NOT getting away from Joyce any time soon, and cuts off any chance for Carol to accuse her of taking advantage of the situation for monetary gain.
In short, Becky is clearly wise to Carol’s bullshit.
AND then she notes in the same calm tone that Carol and Hank quite easily could help her out, if not in the way she suggested then in a myriad of other ways, big or small. And she leaves that hanging.
The fifth panel is Carol NOT offering Becky any help whatsoever. The sixth panel is Joyce being not terribly impressed by that.
I’m not sure Joyce’s face is entirely aimed at her mother. As I recall, she recently questioned why Becky had tagged along. And here we have Becky pouring fuel on the fire *after* Hank’s desperate attempt to put it out. If Joyce explodes, I have a feeling that Becky is gonna catch some of the shrapnel.
Personally I think Joyce’s face comes more from something like This.
I might think it came completely from that place had it been panel 2, 3, or 4. Timing, as they say, is everything.
If this does end with a huge blowup and Carol never wanting to talk to Joyce again or something like that, I can see Joyce eventually saying something very hurtful to Becky, of the “Why did you have to come along?” variety, and Becky feeling awful, and Joyce then feeling awful for making Becky feel awful. I mean, Joyce would repent pretty quickly, but it would be an understandable instinctive reaction on her part — not because Becky’s done anything wrong, but because she has made it impossible for Joyce to compartmentalize her life, and may be about to force Joyce to make a seemingly impossible choice, just by existing.
Obviously, the choice isn’t impossible, because you side with the homeless gay kid against the… well, let’s just abbreviate her to “Carol.” But it would be a credible emotional reaction on Joyce’s part to momentarily blame Becky. It wouldn’t be very creditable for her to express it, but then we all know the title of the comic, don’t we? And judgement would be suspended depending on whether Joyce is able to get past that moment or not.
i think joyce has already picked becky over her mom
i kinda think they both basically knew what to expect – i mean. joyce has lived with her mom her whole life, and becky’s known her for a while.
The shaaaade, the shade of it all!
*Mrs Brown’s deathglare*
*Miss Brown’s deathglare*
Hank: “…come, Becky, let me show you my music room. It’s in the garage so there will be some… distance.”
*Hank and Becky spends the rest of the night jamming, behind them the house explodes*
Geologists on the other side of the planet: “…well, THAT’S some seismological equipment that will never be the same again.”
“Uh…Mr. Brown, this is fun and all, but why is the ground rumbling?”
“It’s just the acoustics, Becky.”
The other shoe is falling, but I don’t think it’s impacted quite yet.
We will know the when it’s impacted. The impact will be seen from space.
I think she’s got the whole homeless thing working for her. Big eyes+big smile=food
That’s a lot of heavy shit to have figured out in, like, two days.
I love Becky here because that is very me, interacting with my parents or close aunt and uncle. Usually it’s not full of bigotry, thankfully.
I’m definitely impressed. Her means of handling it is incredibly deft. In my experiences, I tried to do that and mostly ended up just absorbing a ton and when I tried to push back on some of the hate, I usually would get started and then get bowled over just as quickly with a fresh bounty or a “how could you be so disrespectful?”
*Sigh* This weekend is going to end with an impending divorce, isn’t it? Carol is going to find it impossible to restrain the hate she feels for Becky and it is going to be inflicted on the rest of her family when they won’t join in. She’s finally going to let out how she ddespises her ‘weak’ husband and that she wishes she’d “beat the sin” out of her children, as Hank always refused to do so.
Naturally, Joyce and Becky will blame themselves but, in the end, it is the hate in the woman’s heart that is the true cause. I wonder if she’d been happier if Ross had just killed Becky and maybe Joyce rather than have them alive and being outside her concept of ‘worthy’.
WHO WON? WHO’S NEXT? YOU DEC– oh, Becky won? 100% unanimous vote? Okay
EPIC RAP BATTLES OF DUMBING OF AGE!!!
…this needs to happen.
Her brow is sweaty, truth bombs armed and ready
wanna vomit from the bigotry already, shit got heavy
She’s nervous, but on the surface she’s the same ol’ Becky
But to this mom, she’s an evil sinner getting
her claws in
The dinner table goes so silent
She’s grinning at how
Hard this bongo’s scowling now
She’s stoked on how
She flipped this bullshit right around
“My mac n chee ran out,
So I’ll have seconds now.”
I want more of this. I want Becky to make her fucking snap
I don’t think that is a good idea. Carol snapping might be even worse.
Better wait tomorrow, else she’s sleeping out
Ideal scenario: Mary gets kicked out of the dorms for being shitty and a bigot; Becky moves into Mary’s dorm.
Shitty and a bigot….
A shigot?
If she’s a shitty, pissy, bigot, does she become a spigot?
or perhaps a shoggoth.
oh sorry, was that the wrong genre?
Actually, it’s surprisingly apt! Going by the original source, http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/mountainsofmaddness.htm shoggoths hide in the dark under a vast historical scripture, mostly written in a dead language which they themselves can’t read. The parts closest to their day-to-day lives are twisted and vandalized for comfort or convenience. Their ancestors were slaves, but with those who oppressed them long dead, they remain in seclusion, naked, blind to their own strength and freedom. That bitter memory is all the excuse they need to attack atheists, explorers, scientists, and anyone who disturbs them, with merciless adaptability.
Oddly enough, I’m wondering if Carla may offer Becky sanctuary. It would be difficult for her but it would open up a possible narrative thread where Joyce befriends Carla and, through her, learns how to deal with what’s happening with Jocelyn.
I don’t think it’s Willis’s style to reduce Carla to Joyce’s ‘teaching moment’. Trans people spend their lives explaining and justifying their existence and rights to others; it would be pretty crappy if that was the reason the friendship plot was put into action, to put Carla in that position again as if it’s her job to teach Joyce how to not be awful. Also I just can’t see Carla and Joyce getting along.
More likely there’d be some general controversy about Carla/Mary and Joyce would have to figure things out herself or with some more general guidance from her current friends. Or maybe one of those print-offs Bryan is so fond of.
She might approach Carla after finding out, but I expect Carla would blow her off or give her 1-2 pointers before skating off.
Quick Hank, derail! “That reminds me Becky, Fred said I can borrow his trailer. Do you want to go pack up your stuff tomorrow? Joshua said you can put it in his storage unit until you get settled.”
Carol: Don’t forget the clothes YOUR IMPRISONED FATHER PAID TO PUT ON YOUR BACK.
Joyce. 7… 6… 5…
Becky: Sure! I’ll bring the sweater with the crosshairs on it. It’s rad.
Joyce: FOURTHREETWO…
Hank: WELL WOULD YOU LOOK AT THE TIME THANKS FOR THE FOOD LORD BLESS. BECKY, TRAILER NOW!!!!!
Feel the hate flowing through you Joyce.
She doesn’t say please after asking for more mac n’cheese. How awful
Okay, I know this is completely weird point to start this, but I’m now shipping Becky and Robin. Because just listening to fifteen seconds of conversation between the two would be AWESOME.
Does this ship exist yet?
Every ship, possible, impossible and plain unthinkable exists and is immune to all things, including character death and Word of God (I’ve read shippers claiming that they know and understand characters better than the person who created them, seriously!).
Okay, to rephrase. Has this ship been explicitly articulated amongst the active readership yet?
there was talk of becky as robin’s PR director above
Roz would ship this SO MUCH!!!
Personally I would just like to hear them discuss politics. Dorothy would be nuts within five minutes.
“BECKY, her politics panders to homophobes.”
“Yeah, but she is hilarious!”
“For ritzle!!!”
I think Roz is to busy shipping Robin/Leslie because maybe Leslie will rub off on Robin a bit….
… no, not like that…
… well, okay, YES like that, but also in other ways…
… no not those other ways… well, yes okay ALSO those other ways, but also-also…
DAMMIT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!
Sure we do… and so do Leslie. Hehe 🙂
Well, I never thought of it, but that’s because I never really think about Robin as an actual character in this webcomic. Heck, I had to go look up who she was.
“Sorry my dad tried to shoot me and your daughter.” Jesus Carol…
I can honestly see Hank spending lots of time with Becky away from the house this weekend, mostly because he wants to stay out of the crossfire between Joyce and Carol.
Yeah… but that would mean leaving Joyce and Carol alone. Poor Hank will have a LOT OF WORK to do this weekend.
Why don’t the two of you come with me to visit (Jocelyne’s dead name) and leave your mother to catch up on all her important Church business?
Wow, Joyce’s Mom, throw your own daughter under the bus so you can start a fight with the lesbian, why don’t you?
There is much dignity to be had in picking a fight with a homeless kid, or so I hear.
Well, it is very clear that Joyce badly needs a demonstration of how to reject Satan turn away from sin, regardless of the human cost.
(Which minds me of my hope, that Ross or Bonnie have some estranged relatives that Becky could get stranged with.)
In my life, the most important lesson I have learned, through painful trial an error, is what to say, what not to say, what tone to say it in, for every what&where&when&who.
So.
To watch these webcomic characters (not only these ones. SO MANY OTHER ONES) repeatedly “think out loud” or otherwise utterly fail to parse human emotion (even after proving that they CAN)…just…drives me MAD.
It heavily hurts my suspension of disbelief. Realistic characters stop talking after receiving overt signs of anger/disgust/malice.
And it’s beginning to hurt my sympathy. “Sure your situation is shitty, but YOU. ARE. NOT. HELPING. Do you not know any better? How did you live so long, if you didn’t know any better?”
Yes, this is directed at Becky.
If this is meant to be a learning experience, teaching me that people like Becky (and her dad, and Joyce’s mom, and to some extent Joyce herself) still exist (in the psuedo-realistic “today”), then yes, this does indeed contradict everything I know about my local Christian education system.
I honestly would have been happier without this knowledge.
I suppose that is the point.
Indeed, that is.
Also, having been in Becky’s position before, the immense good of a well-timed defusing deflection like hers is critical in short-circuiting a long and dehumanizing rant about how all people like you are bad and ruining everything good.
Her options here were to either suffer a continuously escalating pattern of emotional abuse in silence or try and defuse and deflect like she did or rise to the bait and start yelling. She chose the most diplomatic of the potential options.
here’s the thing though, when it comes to becky and carol. becky’s pretty aware that carol’s not going to (voluntarily) be part of any actual material aid to her present situation, and if she hadn’t been before the previous strip and this one, she sure as hell is now. so if her flippancy is burning a bridge, the bridge in question only lead to a dead-end anyway.
besides, if carol WERE willing(/able) to offer any actual material aid, there would be soul-crushing strings attached to it, much like the faith-based charities who don’t bother with lgbt youth in need unless they “get rid” of that pesky “lgbt” part. yeah it’s shitty, but that doesn’t make it any less a thing.
Not in any world I’ve lived in. I mean, yeah, some people respond that way. But a whole lot of people don’t. And, frankly, backing down is not always the best response. Because that can let abusive people control you.
I can’t imagine living in a world where I never confront the aggressive person. That would just mean the aggressive person always wins.
Okay, not going to use the blockquote again. Not unless he styles it to be not so friggin’ huge!
It’s worth noting that Joyce is autobiographical for Willis.
This conversation probably actually happened in the actual real world, with Willis in Joyce’s role, I’d guess.
Different characters can have different ways of responding to overt disgust and malice. Joyce would have responded differently if she were on the receiving end. Dorothy would have responded differently than Becky or Joyce. Amber would have responded differently, and so on.
Some realistic characters — as well as people in real life — might shut down in response to directed hatred, but others might not. Assuming that there’s only one realistic way for a person to act assumes only one kind of person. Heck, I’m pretty sure you and I would have very different ways of handling the same situation.
Becky’s response was perfectly in character for Becky: it was brash but well-meaning, it showed that she’s smarter than she’s given credit for, and she followed it up with a keeping-the-peace deflection.
Honestly dont think that Becky notices this attack.
I mean its not like her mom has done anything wrong right?
Becky’s still in a place where she blames herself.
I mean, its great fun that Becky doesnt realize she’s making a comeback, but i highly doubt its intentional.
I think this is the most intentional thing Becky’s ever done. We’ve seen how good she is at taking this kind of thing, how she didn’t break down during the Toedad incident. I’d say she’s “deftly handling this.”
She’s had far too much training in her life on how to deftly handle abuse. This is a means of doing that where she retains some of her power afterwards.
I think you’re assuming a lot here, there’s no indication that Becky was ever abused prior to her father kidnapping her with a gun.
I mean is plausible yes, but it’s not a fact as of yet.
Nobody noticed the reference I made to what Billie said a few pages.
:^(
Depends on what you mean by abuse. We haven’t been shown anything explicit, that’s true.
But she shows an awful lot of signs. The layers of emotional armor. The way she can be smiling and cheerful while she’s dying inside. The whole “Nobody likes a Debbie Downer” bit.
And then there’s “D’Ya know what I was majorin’ in at Anderson? Education. And only so when some gross dude claimed me I could better homeschool our dumb kids.
The danged extent of my allowed aspirations. My life goals.”
It’s not physical, but if that’s not abuse, I don’t know what else is.
Given the way Toedad acted and spoke, I’d say there’s no way Becky’s upbringing wasn’t steeped in religiously-motivated emotional abuse, if not actual physical abuse. After all, the Bible’s totally cool with you hitting your property if it disobeys.
That too.
Consider also that the people behind “To Train Up A Child” (basically a child abuse manual with excused with scripture, only google it if you want to lose your faith in humanity) are from the same culture.
And consider that Becky had absolutely no surprise at seeing her father pull a gun on her or at having him smack her or try to kill her friends. Terror, yes. Surprise or shock? No. This wasn’t the first time he hurt or threatened her. She expected it from him.
I’m not quite willing to go that far. I wouldn’t be surprised, but I don’t think the evidence quite justifies it. Yet.
Emotional abuse, absolutely. It fits and she shows the signs.
Heh, I don’t buy into that reading (the attack is to obvious for that, and Carol already sniped at her once), but I agree that it would be hilarious!
“What? Why would that be an attack? She’s just making conversation about my situation”
I guess I’m overreacting to a minor plot point used as comedic relief.
In that case, I’ll just say “IMO character unintelligence is not good comedic relief” and people can agree to disagree.
It’s not comedic relief, and it’s not unintelligent. It’s neither of the things you suppose it is. Becky is responding very dafly and very realistically, and the only humor to be found here is bitter and dark.
I know my own anxiety tends to flare up at characters acting not-like-i-would-have-in-their-place, but the truth is, Becky is handling this better than I would have.
…or she could -sell- the house and get quite a bit of money for it?
She doesn’t own the house. Her dad does. Unless he plans on dying suddenly in his hospital bed before he can change any wills (and presuming his existing will doesn’t just donate all his worldly possessions to the Church), she’s not getting one penny from the house no matter what happens.
So, my cousin’s mom died (my aunt), and the house is now in my cousin’s name. Would this not work the same way?
It depends? I dunno what happened with your cousin, but there’s a few variables, like, different laws and whether there’s a will.
If Toedad died intestate (without a will), there’s a strong chance that the house would pass to Becky (presuming that 1) Becky is his only offspring and 2) that the intestacy laws in Indiana work the same way they do in my state). But there’d still be a mortgage to contend with, unless the house were paid off at the time of his passing or could be paid off from other assets in the estate.
If Toedad has a will that does not leave the house to Becky, no. It wouldn’t go to her.
OR if Toedad has a life estate instead of owning the property in fee simple, then the property would pass to the remainderman.
Oh, OR if Indiana is one of those ridiculous places that still allows fee-tails. That would/could prevent Becky from taking.
Totally not going into all the possibilities if Indiana allows those whacky defeasible estates!
Ooh, we just covered this in Property. Fee-tails stil only exist in four states: Delaware, Maine, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island.
The real question is whygodwhy do those four states still have them?
Toedad isn’t dead!
PerilsoRosella’s comment wasn’t building on the hypothetical death Cerberus brought up….?
Well, then no, that sure as hell doesn’t work the same way.
And it doesn’t give me an excuse to ramble on about fee tails either, dangit!
What if, as part of the trial, he’s found to be too cracked in the head to manage his own finances?
Congratulations, you win 100 ableism points! You ascend an asshole level! New achievement: your mentally ill friends try to avoid talking to you whenever possible. Ding Ding Ding!!!
If someone is incompetent to manage their finances, etc. no one has the right to seize their property or budge it over on the next person. They’re probably going to have to have a guardian appointed unless they set up a Power of Attorney in advance. And even then, the property of the incompetent individual is not transferred to those people. It is managed by them on behalf of the owner.
So sorry to hear about your aunt.
Toedad is still alive, even if he’s in jail though, so this wouldn’t work the same way.
*cough* Knife to the kidney *cough*
Carol. For your own sake and for keeping Joyce from exploding? Don’t walk with your full. This goes for both food and religious BS
and don’t talk with your mouth full either XP typos…
But, I like walking and being full. Speaking of typos, you somehow forgot to type the word mouth in your first sentence, not sure that was a typo.
I have no idea how I missed that XD; D’oh!
/briefly logs on from a tin box in the middle of a field to say “Jesus, Carol” and “You go, Becky!”
Well this wasn’t at all foreseeable.
Becky: *mic drop*
I really hope I don’t end up being horrible and not understanding like this woman. I want my eventual children to feel safe.
It suddenly occurs to me that Joyce learned her ‘nervous fake smile’ from her father.
Joyce’s face = singularikitty
I hadn’t really thought about Becky’s legal situation regarding her father’s property. Is this what happens?
(Not a lawyer, have no special knowledge of Indiana)
The house probably belongs to Ross. But it is Becky’s legal residence. If Ross wants to throw her out, there will have to be some sort of legal process to go through before the police will support it. Until then she can live there if she wanted to.
A lot hinges on what Ross does from jail to look after his property and affairs. Which likely also depends on how good his lawyer is.
Anything she owns in the house is still hers and she has a right to get it in any case.
The danger would be if someone from their church or other friend is looking after the property, formally or informally. And if the local authorities are going to follow the law.
FWIW, the fact that Becky (who ought to know her father’s circumstances) thinks that the house will be foreclosed sooner rather than later suggests that Ross doesn’t have much in the way of savings. Maybe he works on a casual/per-job basis. Being held after committing multiple felonies, the likelihood that he can continue to work to earn enough to meet those bills is unlikely.
Also, depending on how Becky’s mother died (whether it was from a long illness or a sudden accident) there may be medical bills too.
This conversation can only get better.
I very recognize that Joyce expression. That’s a face somewhere between anger, betrayal, hurt, outrage, and fear. Joyce is doing her damnedest not to explode right now, because I think in her head she’s not sure whether the consequences of exploding or not exploding are worse and she’s too pissed off to find a middle ground.
Been there. Get used to it, Joyce. Where your mom’s concerned, it’s all downhill from here. :/
I can’t imagine how overwhelming all this is for Joyce. At least her father can be a pillar of support. I hope he stands up for Joyce and Becky to Joyce’s mom if it comes to it. That “us against the world” feeling that I imagine Joyce must be feeling is no fun.
Yes, Carol, let the hate flow through you. Strike them down with it.
Carol looks like she’d happily take them both to the city gates and have them stoned to death.
C’mon, Joyce, matricide! All the cool kids are doing it!
Beckie’s eyebrow elevation game is strong tonight…
The sooner it forecloses eh? Probably take about 6 months to a year depending on the state. That’s IF Toedad doesn’t attempt to stall that process from jail.
It depends on how far behind he was on the payments. College for his daughter, and burial expenses for his wife, could have been causing issues for a while now.
Dang Beckers. Really earning that favorite character position with today’s sass!
For a sec I thought that said ¨Bang Beckers¨, and I got really excited. Why you do dis.
Now now Mrs. Fundie-bongo, someone isn’t respecting and accepting her husband’s decisions like a good Christian woman would. And it ain’t the lesbian or your daughter.
Also Fundie autocorrected to Gunfire and I just.. Find that a bit too funny.
Nope. She’s playing the proper role. Not openly defying her husband, but demonstrating the correct moral values for the children.
And by “correct” I mean disgusting.
So, Joyce’s mom is kind of a conga, huh…?
I have to say that this highlights for me the oddity of the site sensor that replaces the other major gendered epithet with a word for something that I, as a percussionist specializing in hand drums, am accustomed to hitting…
It’s probably the same rule I used to use when I modded. “That word’s not a problem yet. Do you want to make it a problem?”
We lost the b-word due to over use. The c-word remains rarely used so hasn’t required a censor.
I’m pretty sure there’s plenty of words for Carol that aren’t slurs?
Hm. So Becky does not try too hard to keep the peace. Not that she is under any obligation to do so, apart from being a guest in the Brown home. Of course, by that logic, shouldn’t Mrs. Brown be obligated to make her guest feel welcome…? (And if Carol thinks of Becky as family rather than a guest, shouldn’t there be some sign of affection anywhere here?)
Personally, the real kicker here for me is the way that the opening salvo was done without witnesses. It put Becky on the defensive from the start, with neither Hank nor Joyce fully aware of it (Joyce suspected, based on Becky’s reaction, but Hank remains ignorant). I wonder how calculated that was, or if Carol just took the unobserved shot when she saw the chance. (I’ve dealt with both in the past.) Joyce is not likely to follow the script Carol had in mind if it was deliberate…
“(And if Carol thinks of Becky as family rather than a guest, shouldn’t there be some sign of affection anywhere here?)”
I think it just goes to show how warped and conditional the “love” that Carol has to offer is. A few weeks ago, she would have probably been happily referring to Becky as “one of the family” and claiming “she’s like a second daughter to me!”.
But now one thing changes: Becky is out of the closet. And suddenly that love and affection is gone and Carol has filed Becky away in her mind as some dangerous Other to be avoided and scorned. The kind of “Christian Love” that such Fundamentalists have to offer is utterly twisted.
“Joyce is safe and that’s what we’re celebrating.” What about Becky? Come on Dad, be cool.
Ouch, yeah, that is hurtful. And a reminder that cool as Hank may be, he is still part of the same culture as Carol, and even if he – in contrast to Carol and ToeDad – may be in possession of basic human decency he still can do real harm.
And I keep remembering that Becky practically grew up as their daughter.
This weekend at home was originally scheduled to celebrate Joyce’s safety specifically; Becky jumped in at the last minute.
Also, Becky may be out from under Toedad, but she’s got a lot of career planning and social networking and grant applications to file. She’s basically moved up from “horny teen in act 1 of a slasher movie” to regular “homeless GSM youth.” Long way yet to go. If one was of a mind to celebrate her current situation, the word would be ‘victory,’ not ‘safety.’
…maybe he’s trying to deflect attention away from Becky?
Maybe it’s a stretch, but perhaps Hank is trying to take Carol’s focus off Becky? Or maybe he’s deliberately wording it in a way that will appeal to Carol? If he says “Joyce and Becky are safe” then I could easily see Carol starting on some “But her soul isn’t safe!!” rant or claiming that she would have “safer” getting dragged off to conversion therapy by her father.
Maybe he’s smart enough to realise that Carol wouldn’t care less about Becky and that there’s no point even mentioning her in this context.
The interesting part here is that the question being asked and the answer are completely legitimate. It’s entirely in tone and phrasing that it becomes so hostile.
“Is it possible for you to stay in your dad’s house while you get back on your feet?” “Well, no, I don’t have any way to maintain the bills.” Perfectly valid exchange. The answer seems obvious, but it didn’t occur to me until Becky said it. I’d have replied with “oh, well, yeah, that’s true, duh.”
But it’s the environment and the sheer passive aggression that ramps it up so much. Carol is making her judgement very clear without actually saying it, and Becky is making it clear that she knows just what Carol is doing and isn’t having any of it.
Some People hated Becky in the beginning for just that attitude, but she needs it to keep on going.
Smile, show your enemies your teeth!
+ALL!!!
I want to upvote this.
+11111 <3
Carol’s awful but you gotta admit she pulls off a great Smug face.
We have to give her that.
Of course, it’s no match for the patented last-panel-Becky-Smile
Becky with her mouth full, and the asking for mere, is classic college kid.
* And then asking for more…
Damn…
Not just classic college kid, but classic high school kid as well. Which I’d missed before, but suggests again that she’s not being rude here, though it seems almost like she is. She’s doing the same thing she did when she approached Hank – behaving like she belongs, like she always used to when she was with Joyce’s family, her second family.
Even though everything is different now, she’s both reaching out for that comfort and reminding them of the girl who asked for more mac an’ cheese how many times at that table?
It worked on Hank. It’s not working on Carol. But she’s still trying. And probably screaming inside, despite that big smile.
Very good observation!!!!
And that is not only for her and Joyce sake – it gives Carol and Hank an easy way to avoid awkwardness.
She don’t ask them to get down on their knees and denounce their gay-hating ways (even if Joyce is happy enough to do that). All she ask of them is to treat her the way they have always done, just like Hank did. Just like Carol didn’t.
To make things better Becky should just kiss Joyce while Carol watches.
Oh Becky, you’re too good for this world!
Beautiful Cinnamon Roll Too Good For This World, Too Pure.
Beautiful Lesbian Girl, Too Gay For This World, Too Pure
Beautiful Sandwich Board, Too Small For This Icon, Too Illegible
ok, who’s taking the angry joyce avatar? someone has to, so step on up, fine volunteers!
I would, but I don’t want to give up laser Ruth.
I know that if I was in this situation, I wouldn’t find it funny, but viewing it from a safe distance, I can’t help but laugh. The tension is so thick…
J̷͚̹͙̪̿̆̀o̗̮̜͈͕̯̞͂͌ͬͧ̋ͦͫy̞̬̓ͭ̋̉̽c̗̗̩̙͇͈̓ͯ͆̃ͮ̋̄e͇̹͚̥̗ͥͮ̈̈́͗’͈̙̺̩͇̰̋̑͒ͥ͆̽̉͡s̭̰͈̮̗͢ ͈̟͔̖͕̞ͅf̑̃̔͠ḁ̡ͪ̾͑̃͊̉ͪc̠͇̠̙̝̐̂͆͑ḙ̷̄ ͓̮̽̓ͫͣ́ḽ͕͕̹͖̘̑͗o̝̼̙̻̤̿̈́͑ͬͬ̚o̠̗͔̝k͙̭͔̰͖s̩͈͕̦̘̱̉ ̺̙̗͙͎̓̽̾͒̔ͩ́l̠̟͓ͣͦͪĩ̡̮̼̔k̸͍̤̫ͨ̑́e̴̥͎̜̬̘̗ ͎͈̙͑͆̿̋̒̃͢t̻͖͓̫̙̘̞̄̅̀̍͢h̲̙̳̝͖̐ͪͦ͌̊ͩ̊i̷͎͓̭̞͔͓ͧ̂͌͗sͦ̅͑̿̚.͍̩͉́̈́̾͘
Joyce: “My God! It’s Moose Turd Pie!!!“
How did you do that?
Zalgo Text Generator!
Considering everything Joyce has been through the last few weeks (very nearly being the victim of sexual assault, making friends with sinners, evolutionists, and atheists, and getting held up at gunpoint by a family friend), I’m honestly surprised that Carol is still trying to pick a fight with Becky at this point.
Come on, lady! Priorities! This is your daughter we’re talking about here!
Carol only knows about like 1.3 of those things though
Joyce glower >>> Carol glower
Carol mad, but Joyce real mad
Not that there’s not a good reason for Becky being Becky there, but I think that she needs to employ just a bit more tact with how she handles Carol. I certainly don’t agree with Carol – I’m totally in Becky’s corner – but when you’re a guest in someone else’s home, or when you’re dealing with the parent of a friend (especially at the age that Becky and Joyce are), one should try to phrase things more politely and tactfully.
If she’s truly best friends with Joyce, she should be treading carefully in the Browns’ house, not necessarily taking all the stuff that Carol is dishing and ceding defeat, but rather at least responding in a more respectful manner due to the parent of a good friend and host. This is especially true, knowing based on the initial greeting, that Joyce is likely to be the target of any repercussions that arise from this Becky situation.
Sometimes you have to be the better person, even if the other party doesn’t deserve it – maybe especially when the other party doesn’t deserve it. I hope Becky realizes this soon, for Joyce’s sake.
I disagree, Becky had the invitation from Hank so shes more than welcome in the home, Carol is being a complete bongo which allows Becky to respond in kind as the host dictates how the social mores happens.
Yes Becky is a guest however that means there is certain obligations on the host on how to behave and Carol is falling short so imho Becky is allowed to defend herself and her actions.
Moreover Carol is acting like a bully in this situation, she has all the power (shes the adult and its her house) so Becky either stands up to her or she just takes whatever vitriol Carol decides to fling her way
So no Becky doesn’t have to be the better person because Carol has broken the unwritten rules of convention.
As I said above and as was talked about when she first greeted Hank, she’s making the right moves here. They’re not going to work, but it’s still the right thing.
She’s not “company” here. She doesn’t have to be on her best behavior. She’s Joyce’s best friend. She’s been in and out of this house since childhood. She’s eaten that mac and cheese and asked for more hundreds of times just like that. She’s saying, with every bit of normalcy she’s got: I’m Becky. I haven’t changed. I’m still the same kid you’ve known for years. Treat me like that. I need that.
There’s no guest/host thing going on here. There’s extended family. Family that Carol is rejecting.
If Becky went in all formal and stiff and behaved like a stranger or a distant acquaintance, she loses her only weapon here. Then she is just a strange lesbian who’s corrupting their daughter. She’s not acting like Becky, she’s not reminding them of Becky, she’s telling them that she’s changed, she’s different that they don’t have to treat her like they always have.
It worked on Hank. It’s not going to work on Carol. She’s too far gone.
Besides all that, it wouldn’t work anyway. Even if Becky did everything you wanted, Carol’s would keep pushing. Even if Becky hadn’t come, Carol would keep pushing, but at Joyce in that case.
And Joyce isn’t going to take it. She’ll fight for Becky.
Disagree. Carol has acted so disrespectfully that she has lost that courtesy. She deserves whatever gets said to her in return.
As Cerberus noted above, both Carols attacks so far has been COMPLETELY without provocation from Becky’s side. Even if Becky said nothing at all, Carol would just have kept on escalating until Joyce exploded.
Becky is behaving perfectly here. Carol is being nasty, and Becky responds politely, just as if Carol were being polite too.
Joyce, on the other hand, is about to blow. We all want to see it. The only question is how long Mr. Willis will make us wait for it.
I agree, Carol is acting like a bully and if Becky doesn’t stand up to her Carol will continue her attacks, I’m just not sure if its because Carol is a bully by nature or if shes a bully because of what her religion has taught her (not that it really matters I guess)
Seems to me like failing to answer the question would’ve been more rude. If Carol didn’t want to know, she shouldn’t have asked.
I wasn’t saying she shouldn’t have responded, but no matter how rude a parent of a friend was being to me, I would never have been deemed ‘in the right’ by answering “Well, if you think that’s what I should do, then YOU do it for me and I will,” to said parent. It’s flippant, and while Carol is being a bully, as the parent of a friend, there’s a certain manner that I was taught with how you respond to your elders.
Again, I don’t think that Carol is right. I DO think that Becky needed to respond. But there’s a huge difference and potential effect for Joyce between “I can’t do that because I can’t afford to” and “I can’t afford that, so if you want me to do that, YOU do it for me.” One explains the reality of the situation, while the other fans the flames.
At least, that’s my take on it.
Also, while Hank did invite Becky, both Hank and Carol could potentially rescind said invitation, in the sense that either Carol could kick Becky out and Hank would have to decide whether to intervene or not, and if he didn’t agree, then more hell breaks loose, especially since that would require both Hank and Joyce to openly choose sides. Is that a position that a best friend should put her best friend in, if it’s avoidable?
As the Japanese saying goes, “It’s not like Becky is actually going to be made smaller by what Carol says in closed company.” What she says isn’t going to change what Joyce and Hank think about Becky (their minds are already made), nor will Becky think less of herself… Whereas the wrong response can actually make things worse for Joyce, at least, and possibly even for Hank.
REKT
Love the death glare in panel 5, almost expect mom’s head to burst into flames.
Oh boy. Joyce’s mom, you’re pretty damn stupid, ain’tcha? You SERIOUSLY don’t remember what happened last time when you tried to make Joyce pick you over a friend? And that wasn’t even a friend she’d known all her life. Get ready, fireworks are gonna go off…and you’re not gonna like it.
i gotta say, the father is a cool dude, but the mother…. well im guessing that she is the reason Joyce is so messed up.
Has Carol spoken to her daughter at all since denying her a hug in favor of the food?
“Stop giving me the truth about your situation! I don’t want to feel compassion! STOP IT”
Oh FFS Becky!!!
Really, I don’t think there’s ever any option but to be snarky at aggressive bigots.
Good work Becky, stick to you metaphorical guns.
How dare she react to passive aggressive barbs by responding in kind. Doesn’t she realize that she must be that perfect girl!
Yeah sorry Kugai, not sure what Becky’s doing wrong here
Oh my god, that Becky! Reacting with reasonable and logical statements and pretending like Carol isn’t trying to passive-aggressively provoke a fight! How could she?!?
It’s like that time when she completely ruined her alleged best friend’s day by existing in front of her father!
Teaching Joyce’s mom to actually think… Atta girl, Becky. 😉
My limited experience with evangelicals is that critical thinking is not usually their strong suit. Unless we’re talking about the Liberty University debate team which has trounced Harvard.
This comic has a very interesting symmetry with the panels
I really like that he’s using the panels to show the progression of time while still showing the same space. It’s pretty clever.
Becky reminds Carol of her duty as a hostess — to feed the guest.
If Carol snaps at Becky now, she fails in a very basic way.
Bwahahahaha!!! Start the Mommy Melt-Down Count-Down!
What’s the white stuff on their plates? Mashed potatos? Who eats mac and cheese with potatoes?
me, for probably 60% of my meals
*edit* and after consulting with twitter, basically everybody
so
Really. I was raised that no meal should have two starches.
maybe you should be more irish then
Solution: 3 is not 2, therefore a meal that has 3 starches does not have 2 starches.
Despite the red hair that runs in the family, there is no Irish in my ancestry. Russian, Russian Jewish, Scot and German.
Interesting choice to do the continuous-image-different-panel thing. I really like it, but I can’t figure out why, seeing as logically it should be just as serviceable to merge those sets of panels into one panel? Idk.
I think it’s because it gives Joyce and Becky very distinct responses each of which are more powerful for being separate.
This is like that dinner scene in Titanic.
“So how is steerage?”
“The best I’ve ever seen. Hardly any rats.”
That mom…
Is Joyce angry at Becky or her mom?
Dunno, which one is in front of her where her glare is directed? Which one has been passive-aggressive and hurtful without any provocation? Which one did Joyce expect a confrontation with making her dread this weekend well in advance?
🙂
Becky handled that beautifully, actually. Wow.
Question – why is Carol making that face in the fifth panel?
yep
was totally right to hate joyces mom
good on me for my excellent hate instincts, just hoping i wont have to hate joyces dad either
he seems nice enough