It’s less that he didn’t have to work to get a PASSING grade, it’s that he didn’t have to work to get STRAIGHT As. Now he does have to work for it, and he’s freaking him out. I had a similar issue after skipping two grades in math, when I was younger. I wound up stalling out and barely finishing high school on time. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen with Walky.
I don’t get that feeling. Walky is genuinely intelligent, it’s just that he doesn’t know how to apply himself when he falls short.
He’s in the opposite case of Sal, who had difficulty grasping the work at first, but gradually improved, sought out tutoring, tried new ways to approach her problems, and was ultimately rewarded for her efforts.
Yeah, he strikes me as an individual who has never had to study before now. He was able to always do work in his head or memorize stuff and had teachers who were good to go over the main points and is solid on standardized tests.
But he never learned how to do independent studying, handle a terrible teacher, or how to take notes and do things long form in homework instead of trying to skip ahead.
I run into this sort of student all the time, usually around a similar level to where Walky is now. The material from an algebra2 to a pre-calc or a calculus is often a major step up and starts being difficult to keep all in your head. Especially with the early material which is often about laying down the theory of derivatives and integrals you’ll be working with for the rest of the year.
For someone like Walky who has so much pride wrapped up in classes being “easy”, he’s going to have an even rougher road to needing to write things down and take careful notes because in his head, that’s what “bad students” do.
Yeah what Cerberus says. I was the kid who never had to study – straight 95%+ average across all my courses, just from doing my homework. First year in uni I was fine because I was a nerd and had self-taught most of the material already. Second-year I got ridiculously over-confident and had the bright idea to take 8 courses and 3 labs while working part-time and doing three extra-curricular activities. Like I said, ridiculously over-confident. I didn’t flunk anything, but my CGPA went from 4.3 to 3.4 in one semester. It was kind of a train wreck.
Thankfully, I learned how to study after that and was able to graduate with honors but it was a huge blow to my self-image as the Smart Kid to whom everything was “easy” and who could loaf off in class while making straight As.
Similar for me, except I never did learn to study. (Partially because I wasn’t just unpracticed at it, I’d gotten stuck with a teacher who punished me for getting ahead, so…)
Yeah, I got a teacher like that, too. But I’ve got a really heavy dose of contrarian rules-lawyer brat in me that the teacher didn’t stamp out, so it didn’t stop me from trying to get more ahead. It’s a personality thing, though, and there’s a reason I spent most of 3rd grade in the in-school suspension room, and it wasn’t just because the teacher was an incompetent bully. She was, but I was also kind of like Carla in that I’m the sort of person who will tend to dig in my heels and be an ass for the sake of being an ass if I’m dealing with a jerk, especially if the jerk doesn’t have the power to do harm to me that I’m not willing to put up with.
I was never exactly the guy who loafed off and still got straight A’s, but I did always have the feeling that maths came easily (it still does actually – I’m currently strolling through a professional accounting qualification), but what undid me was when I got to university and did well in the first 2 years.
I didn’t get cocky and start being lazy, but I did get cocky and started taking classes that were WAY out of my league. Like Quantum Mechanics (I & II), Spacetime Geometry and General Relativity, Special Relativity & Electromagnetism…the other 4 courses were more at my level and I passed them, but those 4 courses I named above…it was a total train wreck, and nearly caused me to entirely fail my 3rd year (and by extension, my maths degree).
Luckily I scraped through and got my degree, little use though it has done me since. 😛
“Second-year I got ridiculously over-confident and had the bright idea to take 8 courses and 3 labs while working part-time and doing three extra-curricular activities.”
I was weird. I started out at a school that encouraged studying and working your hardest, then moved to a school where everyone half-assed it, skipped a grade because of said half-assing, switched schools twice before graduating high school, went to college and learned what I was interested in and half-assed what I wasn’t, got a D in Statistics and freaked out and literally quit school for a year to figure out why I’d done that. because…figuring out my shit while I went to college wasn’t an option, apparently? idk. my brain.
TURNS OUT I have ADHD! so, like. good study habits do a lot to combat that.
I don’t, but I do have executive function issues because of my autism that can be similar to ADHD in that if I’m off routine, everything goes to hell and I forget all of the things.
(erm, leeeet’s just say that on more than one occasion I’ve gotten to the store with a cart full of groceries… and no wallet)
In high school, I used to sleep or play Tetris on my calculator for most of my classes. Some of the teachers reacted by trying to catch me off guard, but whenever they’d wake me up and try to startle me with a question, I had the answer, because I had been listening the whole time. I was the same in grade school, too, doodling or fiddling with something constantly, and getting As on every test. I never studied or did homework, only the most extreme stuff like papers, which I’d write the night before they were due, and still get good grades. The difference is, I never hit a wall, I kept doing this and succeeding at it all through college. I have a degree and a career. One time in college, I wrote a research paper the day it was due, in another class a couple hours before it was due. I got a B on the paper and As in both classes.
I figured there’d be people like this. I really envy you, though in a way learning how to work hard for something is rewarding too. I hope you find some other place where you could learn that?
I hit my first wall in secondary school, had to start doing homework, and study a bit for tests. I thought that was my wall and that had learnt to work for my good grades. I had to work harder when I started at uni, but it was fun, so whatever. Then I had to work harder again when I started my Master’s, and it started to get less fun to have so little free time left. Then I hit my second wall: academic writing. Writing my Master’s thesis has been another painful experience, but looking back at what I’ve accomplished is very rewarding.
I’ve gotten plenty of envy over that talent, but I have my own struggles too, so don’t feel too bad about it – from the sound of it you’re doing just fine.
My main shortcoming is in dealing with people. I have pretty significant social anxiety and I’ve never managed to ask anyone out. Even if I did, I don’t know how I could possibly entertain someone one-on-one through a date anyway. I have a really hard time calling anyone, to the point where I tend to just let friendships die when circumstance doesn’t put me together with people anymore. I was seriously depressed in high school, and that was a major factor. Fortunately I managed to pull through that, accept my flaws, and find other things in life that I could enjoy.
In my sophomore math class, I literally spent most of my class time either playing solitaire at my desk or doodling on my backpack with sharpies. But I did well on tests so the teacher didn’t care.
Same here. No academic wall, even at a top college — lots of procrastination and writing the paper at the deadline, which stressed people out, but it ultimately worked every time. I can do papers. The wall happened in my mid-20s, when depression hit me in the face and I couldn’t do anything anymore, not even the dishes. Now everything is terrifying. I’m working on it.
Similar, I never hit a big wall academically compared to what I normally did throughout school. I wasn’t a straight A student until my college time and such, where I actually had the mentality ‘C’ or higher, doesn’t matter. Wrote a man a paper on the night before or same day.
Most extreme for me would be writing a 1-2 page paper on a subject I didn’t take in school at all for someone else on the same day it was due…. In under an hour. Wasn’t my best work, but I learned in one class a few years back I can take a subject and just swing out stuff for it.
I passed English 2(mostly read and discuss stories, only a couple writing assignments on context and such) without actually reading any of the stories assigned. I just listened to the first 2-3 minutes of the students discussing it, latched onto something, and basically became a ‘Bard.’
I also always spents lots of time in class doodling and writing down song lyrics (that worked super well in getting my handwriting from barely legible to actually pretty awesome). Most of the time, it worked like that – I paid just enough attention to follow what everyone was doing and take notes from time to time.
(It helped that in most classes teachers DICTATED notes to class, and I usually already had them written from the explanation on my own)
Sometimes, though, I’d hit a class where I actually DID have to look at the blackboard/listen to teacher/take notes ALL THE TIME to keep myself oriented. I still managed to fill my notes with doodles though XD
I took special pride in being able to wake up when the teacher called on me, glance up at the board, think for about 5 seconds, then provide them with the answer before going back to sleep. It particularly pissed off my physics teacher…
Some people (especially people with ADHD, I believe) learn and listen much better when they’re doing multiple things at the same time, especially things like doodling and drawing. I drew on my papers and in sketchbooks or notebooks all the time in school and a lot of early teachers seemed to think the same as what you’re saying here, but it’s really quite the opposite. Of course, now I’m in college for illustration and it’s encouraged. <_<
An education ‘system’ that let’s so many bright kids ‘coast’ till they hit The Wall … and then still leaves them pretty much on their own to rehab themselves … Am I the only one who thinks that there is more wrong with a System that squanders so much human potential than the kids that it fails? HS was so trivial for me that I graduated a year early (bc there was a girl a year ahead of me), and still won the prize for best history student, then hit my wall in freshman calculus. I did greagreat first quarter, but Spring quarter I was going to fail. During Study Days I calculated how many points I needed on the final to pass the course; which sections would be the easiest to get those points on; studied those and ignored the rest of the course. It worked, but what a bloody waste. I’m FINALLY getting the remediation I’ve needed for ever: meds to ease the path, regular therapy/coaching to take advantage of what the meds are doing for me. According to my therapist I’m not stupid or lazy, I’m inefficient except when I go into crisis mode and am easily distracted from my commitments and then hyper focus on other things. So, yeah, ‘Attention/Focus Disorder’ (not to mention The Big A — nxiety).
IF YOU RECOGNIZE YOURSELF in the many posts here and are unhappy about it, PLEASE explore the possibilities of why and what you can do, the sooner the better but it’s NEVER too late. And don’t let Them fluff you off: my current therapist (my 5th after 4 non-keepers), tried to tell me I was ‘fixed’ and to push me out the door when all he’d done was stabilize my most recent existential crises. I refused to go and since then we’ve gotten onto the longterm work. (Tho I’m priviledged in having a spouse with good insurance and I regret that I don’t know what to adviSE those who dont. If you are in uni, try whatever psy-services your school has.)
I was one of those students, but I hit this roadblock in middle school. A much, ah, safer time. I recovered by high school and uni.
(At one point my classmate said about me that I started school with knowledge on fifth grade level – and that’s where it stayed, even as I actually reached and passed fifth grade. I’m pretty sure I learned SOMETHING between first and sixth grade, but yeah astute observation)
I remember getting a rapid increase in studyload in uni… yeah, Walky’s got an inopportune time to run out of effortless study buffer.
Oh my God, somebody who understands! Six years later I’m still dealing with the effects of the world-shattering experience of realizing that I’m not some kind of genius prodigy. I was basically told I was a genius for my entire life, got B’s on my exams if I didn’t study at all and A’s if I studied 15 minutes or more. Then I went to a very competitive, highly-ranked university and had my spirits crushed. My Walky-style denial actually lasted all the way until sophomore year, when I almost failed organic chemistry. I never did really learn to study particularly well; fortunately, my wife (then my girlfriend) had both an intellect similar to mine and a ferocious work ethic, so she helped tutor me. Without her, I really might have had to change my major or go on the 5-year program.
Well you actually have to be above average intelligence to go to a Learning Disabilities school, I was actually in one for Grade 7, and 8… it was hell.
Well he isn’t freaking out about any of his other classes, which would imply he really is smart.
This happens to a lot of people who are genuinely smart. They’re smart enough not to have to put in any effort, so by the time they get to an appropriate level they don’t know how to try hard.
Not really. I was like this when I first went to college- everything up to that point was easy to me (with the exception of math), so I didn’t really have any sort of work ethic or study skills. And then I got into my first non-intro course and got my ass handed to me, because for the first time I couldn’t just suck up the material and spit it out on the paper and get an A.
Granted, a big part of this is that college tends to deal a lot more with abstractions than high school does. For example, in high school, you can get away with just being able to pick out themes and setting elements from a Literature assignment, but on a college level, you have to be able to understand subtext and metatext and context and all other sorts of text that aren’t necessarily just the words printed on the page. In History, you don’t just learn about what happened, you now have to be able to figure out why it happened. In Physics, you don’t just learn Newton’s Three Laws, you also start to learn about the theories of LaPlace and Faraday and Einstein and actually have to find out what E=MC^2 actually means.
And Walky is just not prepared for that kind of intensive thinking. Not yet.
Well, yes, you were either referring to a Lake Woebegone situation (“where all of the children are above average”), or Hogwarts, and Walky doesn’t strike me as a Gryffindor.
1. Why are you reading at traffic lights?!?!?!
2. (kinda wish I could do that–my car (and everyone else’s) is buried under two feet of snow at the moment)
2a. ((I guess I can still do that but on foot, which isn’t the same))
Walky’s trying to use comedy to deflect an uncomfortable conversation again. Academic cruise control has gotten him this far, but it’s never going to teach him how to study.
He has to learn to swallow his pride and ask for help if he wants to pass this semester.
Or, you know, go on the internet for two minutes to find out what other people in his situation have done. But that’s less humiliating, so of course some of us readers wouldn’t want that. (Also maybe harder to make into a good story.)
I had the opposite problem. In lower level schooling, a lot of stuff is more or less “basic” or can be worked out from first principles. Being smart and knowing how the system worked let me eliminate 70% of the workload, making me work less than 30% compared to other students.
Later on, when actual study, and practise (for math) was involved… not to mention living away from home and not having someone monitor my studying… well, it all went to heck in a handbasket.
It’s because at lower levels, education is “stuff that everyone should know”, to some extent. So, if you’re intelligent and watch tv or otherwise know as much about the world as the average adult, you don’t have to study that much. … in uni/college, you get taught stuff that is pretty specific, that most people would not have a clue about unless they were specifically given a lecture or read a book or something, it’s not the sort of “general knowledge”
Oh yeah, and my attendance for classes and lectures was terrible too. … In that sense, I’m worse than Walky, since he expects to learn enough from (sleeping in?) lectures and classes to get by, whereas for some stupid reason, I thought that I would learn stuff while sleeping IN MY BED. … in that sense, in hindsight, I was the biggest idiot of them all!
So yeah… thinking you’re a genius who can do anything, and succeeding? You’re a genius. Thinking you’re a genius, but failing? You’re actually a moron, who thinks he’s a genius.
To paraphrase Teddy (Mickey Rourke) in “Body Heat”:
There are 50 ways that you can screw the pooch. If you think of 50 of them, you’re a genius. And you ain’t no genius.
He struggles with one class and someone has to think he sucks at school altogether. If anything, he’s terrible at preparing himself for the scenario in which he actually has to put in work.
No, Walky is actually REALLY typical of smart kids when they hit higher education. I never had to really try to learn new material, all the way through high school, and when I got to college, I had no idea at all how to study. I’d basically never needed to study beyond reading the relevant section in the textbook, and maybe a few practice questions for math.
Walky probably hasn’t ever had to really try in school before. Now that he’s hit something he can’t immediately grasp, he can’t reconcile that with his view of himself.
Calculus is the point at which I too first had trouble breezing through classes, but for me the timing was my senior year in hig school rather than as a freshman in university. Alas, it coincided with the breaking of my giveadamn, so I was not motivated to care about it or fix it by studying. I am not sure whether it has ever mended, either, and it has been nearly 30 years at this point.
The number of characters the title can plausibly refer to keeps growing :0
Also, just wanted to say: congrats @ Willis, it’s really impossible to confuse Ruth with Carla, even when they have the same hairstyle on top of generally same-ish hair color. That’s pretty cool!
You reminded me of that one episode of The Grim Adventures of Billy And Mandy where Billy ate too many magic chocolates and ended up turning into chocolate and eating himself.
I would argue using your authority to abuse the students under your care makes you a coward, especially when Ruth believes that she’s allowed to do so because her bosses don’t care enough to do anything about it.
Honestly, I can understand the cowardice. It’s hard to risk yourself like that, especially when you’re used to not having to. Ruth’s never faced direct homophobia targeting her like that before. She’s probably never had a student directly threaten her like this before thanks to her overall climate of fear.
And the thought of losing what she’s currently using to cling to life is a really scary thing. I don’t blame her for valuing what she thinks is safer over what she thinks is right, even though that is very much a privilege she most certainly has over Carla in that scene. And that’s what makes it sting.
I’m kind of happy Ruth didn’t throw everything she had away just to defend Carla. Even though Carla shouldn’t have to deal with transphobic assholes Ruth shouldn’t have to keep losing people that matter to her.
Yeah, I get why she did it. If anything it was a reflexive retreat; get away from Mary pulling back the curtain and also try to salvage dignity with Carla.
I’m not exactly overflowing with sympathy for Ruth, okay I’d rather hug a deadly cobraspider, but she panicked, as we do. It’s just that her failures have consequences.
Oh, very much that. Sadly, the worst of those consequences will be falling directly on her head. As some have pointed out already, blackmailers don’t stop at one favor. Mary is going to be frequently visiting to “collect” what she thinks she is owed.
Which I think makes it easier for me at least to forgive her cowardice. That, and the fact that like Carla, I don’t trust authority figures to do a damn for trans people and the fact that she vaguely tried is better than the usual.
Honestly, the fact that she even realizes that she’s fucked up and that she did the wrong thing is already 3 miles above the bar I’ve set for authority figures vis a vis trans people.
It’s an understandable cowardice, totally. Being perfectly honest: I have no idea whether I’d be able to act any differently. I think, in all honesty, for me it would depend on whether my anger outweighed my fear and shame – if I was angry enough that I acted impulsively, I might stand up, but if I don’t hit that critical mass, I’d probably chicken out just like Ruth did. I’d like to think I’d for sure act with integrity, but I don’t know. It’s a lot easier to say you’ll stand up when the time comes than to actually do it. In the past when I’ve been in such situations, for me it depends entirely on whether I get pissed off enough that I don’t think about what I’m doing, I just do.
The above aside, it does not surprise me at all that Ruth, in particular, was the one to back down. IME, the people who posture the biggest tend to be the ones to fold the fastest when they’re called on their posturing. Not all bullies are the sort that are likely to fold, but Ruth (she is a bully) always struck me as the type. Hard to explain why if you’ve never encountered that type, but, I think to me it has to do with how concerned the person is with seeming tough. Ruth is very concerned about seeming so tough that nobody wants to mess with her – which, IME, means that the person has serious doubts about their ability to come out on top if someone does mess with them.
Mary has never had such concern over what others think of her. She is less concerned with seeming powerful and dangerous and more concerned with actually being powerful and dangerous. Ruth is uncertain about her ability to hold firm in the face of dangerous opposition (and, as we’ve discovered, rightfully so). Mary is not. Mary is just nasty and plain mean enough that the she’s the if-I-burn-you-burn-with-me type – she’d take you down just to see you go down, even if she goes down, too. Because watching you go down gives her enough satisfaction that it’s worth whatever damage is done to her in the process. Because at her core, Mary is just that sadistic.
Ruth? Ruth is posturing to cover up her insecurities and mental illness. She probably protects her brother from their grandfather and protected him in school by being the badass dangerous and tough older sister who would fuck your shit up if you messed with him. She couldn’t show her pain, Howard needed her to be strong and needed her to shield him from their grandfather, and she sure as hell wasn’t getting any help from her grandfather, either (as we’ve seen – he’s someone so abusive that a conversation can drive her to suicidal self-destruction). So she buried her pain and acted tough, leading to the persona she projects to the floor. But at her core, Ruth doesn’t take any joy in being nasty. I think, for her, nasty is a fear response: she puts on tough & violent persona whenever she’s afraid of something, which I think is is pretty much always.
Ruth may mostly be projecting, but she’s definitely not just projecting. Ther’eve been times the thorns came out against complete nonthreats who shouldn’t have even reminded her of anything threatening. Still, it’s possible she mostly is (Or it started as a mask and has started to become her face because it fit better than whatever the hell was there before.
I think the latter is more likely the case – I think nasty/tough posturing has just become habit for her at this point and she doesn’t really know how to interact with someone normally (see also how baffled she is whenever Billie is nice to her – I relate to that a lot cuz when I got out of high school and out of my folks’ place, I remember spending my first 6 months or so of university being really amazed that everyone was being so nice and waiting on the other shoe to drop and for them to do something nasty, but they never did. It was the eeriest feeling – I could handle people being nasty and violent and terrible. I was used to it, and I expected it. I had my armor up for it. I couldn’t handle genuine niceness. I kept thinking it was some sort of a trick, like they were using me for something and I couldn’t figure out what. I think that’s the sort of headspace Ruth is in).
Carla has it too, and I’d put dollars to donuts she’s exercised it historically. She just doesn’t have it on this particular issue. Yes, doing the right thing here always carries some risk, but that risk is usually not “I can and will actually destroy everything you love and end your life as you know it.” The initial “Calm before the motherfuckin’ storm” was sufficient for me. I don’t require people to actually BE suicidal. My desire not to be disappointed aside, it’s not pragmatic, since it’s rather a high bar.
Oh yes. It’s a hard decision to risk everything in your life for another person. Especially when you could just as easily walk away. And I’d imagine most of us have made the “walk away” choice at one time or another.
Sometimes, not always, walking away can extract a high price too. Extreme case: The Dutch soldiers who stood aside in Srebrenica, allowing a genocide to be done, a very high % are paying a very high psychological cost.
She’s not really abusive though? I mean, yes, she’s occasionally violent, but she’s never actually directed that violence towards someone who didn’t pick a fight with her first, and has readily thrown herself in the way of danger on behalf of her charges.
Yeah, she could definitely be a bit more openly compassionate, but push comes to shove, I’d love an RA who was willing to stick her neck out for me as much as Ruth is.
So far Ruth has physically dragged students to meetings, repeatedly assaulted Billie and sexually assaulted her at one point, and destroyed student property.
Even if it was all just directed at Billie, she’d still be an abusive shithead.
Okay, first off, “sexually assaulted?” She drunkenly kissed Billie. Did that violate a boundary? Yes. But she’s far from some kind of sex offender, using her position of authority to force Billie into having sex with her. And any time they’ve gotten into a physical altercation, it was a mutual act with neither one getting any serious injuries from it. (Seriously, there’s a reason most assault statutes have a consent exception to them, although admittedly a part of that is so there isn’t a lawsuit everytime someone gets tackled in a football game.)
“Abuse” isn’t just about the use of physical force or intimidation. It’s about control, about breaking down someone’s will so they’ll do anything you want. Ruth may be overly physical in her methods, and may prefer the stick to the carrot, but nothing about her is abusive. She tries her best to respect boundaries, only uses overt force when confronted with real physical danger, and genuinely works to keep other people’s best interests in mind (even when she can’t do the same for herself).
Compare/contrast Blaine and Ross, who not only use violence to control their daughters, but have a whole host of psychological and emotional tactics to force them into submitting to their will. Blaine, of course, is a consummate manipulator, putting on a nice appearance and tending to use violence only when his silver tongue can’t do the job. Ross, on the other hand, prefers to use his faith as a weapon (along with his actual weapon), equating his own wrath with the Wrath of God to induce absolute conformity.
Now those are abusers. Ruth’s behavior, by comparison, is nothing.
Abuse is not any one thing. Abuse doesn’t even have to be intentional let alone an active effort to exercise control over someone (although that’s very frequently the form Ruth’s abuse of the students takes). Ruth is an abuser. She abuses her charges and she’s abused Billie. It’s not about “by comparison,” it doesn’t matter if other abusers are worse. An abuser can have the best intentions in the world and still be a toxic influence on the people around them. I’m having none of this fallacy of relative privation nonsense. Ruth does not have to be as bad as Blaine or Ross for her to be an abuser. That’s why people can still love their abusers even as they grind away at your self-worth and independence: because they aren’t necessarily a violent psychopath.
She didn’t JUST drunkenly kiss Billie, though. She called her fat (while she was crying), then slammed her against the wall and glared at her, then kissed her.
And Ruth isn’t as bad as Blaine or Toedad, but she’s definitely bullying her residents. Sure, she’s had her high points (Punching Blaine, trying to comfort Amber after the Blaine thing, being sort of sometimes nice to the other residents, etc.) but she that doesn’t excuse the whole “constantly physically assaulting people” thing.
That initial kiss was definitely way over the line, as was pretty much their entire relationship up to then. That was sexual assault. Harassment, since Ruth was in a position of authority. Billie had a valid complaint at that point.
Since then and since they actually started a relationship, things have changed. The actual relationship isn’t abusive or bullying – or to the extent that it is, it goes both ways. Billie gives as good as she takes.
It’s not healthy, but in other ways. They’re co-dependent. They’re enabling each other’s alcoholism.
People’s reactions to Ruth’s violence have tended to be “that was awesome”. And she has been shown to give helpful, caring advice to residents who aren’t Billie.
I’d bet Ruth is pretty popular among her charges. Even if they are afraid of what she would have to do to Becky because she is in charge.
Dorothy is abusive though. She has the people on her floor scared shitless of her because she steals their shit, forces them to places because she’s taller and stronger than them, and has slapped them for asking her to do their job(I know the last one was Mary but that don’t excuse it).
She’s also an alcoholic and enabling that problem onto another underage student.
Also remember when she managed to flip Ambers dad, but then got whoozy cause she was still drunk a bit? Her problems are affecting her job, which affects the whole dorm.
And as we’ve just seen, she just abandoned Carla because all of that shit is now being used against her.
I’m sorry but Ruth should not be in charge of anybody, she’s a fucking mess.
No, Mary wasn’t hit for ‘asking her to do her job’. Mary was hit for angrily demanding that a secondary problem be fixed immediately, over all other concerns in her life. That isn’t ‘being asked to do your job’, anymore than Ruth slamming Blaine into the floor (Which even if she could only manage once due to alcohol withdrawal, is still way past the call of duty, so complaining about it is crass at best) is ‘lawfully asking him to leave’. Technically accurate, but woefully underinformative.
Ruth puts a fair amount of effort into doing actual good that is easily glossed over because it’s not camera-worthy like her hurling Joyce’s gloves out the window is (See also: Roz, activism. Ref: handing out condoms while wearing the condom hat). She walked into Carla and Mary’s fight because she was going to go find the loud jerk who was making a ton of noise in her hall and give them what-for, then ran into the worst human in the building being the worst human in the building.
It’s not as simple as “Ruth is irredeemably awful or the absolute worst”. She probably shouldn’t be an RA, but pretty much the only three people who probably should have their job are Leslie, Asma, and Professor Dean, and I’m technically guessing in the last instance.
There are LOTS of people around here who are bad at their jobs, that’s completely true, and Ruth is one of them.
The big problem is that she creates a toxic atmosphere, she teaches the residents that they shouldn’t go to the RA or other authorities with problems big and small. (“they like that I run a tight ship”) and that bullying is an acceptable way to solve problems. That makes it very hard to put up a united front against people like Mary.
With a fair RA Mary would still be a lot of trouble but she would have less ammunition.
Asma really would be best RA. Oh yes, Billie would be driven nuts by her, mostly because she does her job instead of ruling by fear and random acts of aggression. Back when Billie and Ruth were primary fighting rather than fucking, Billie had no problem with the way Ruth handled things. She was just pissed that Ruth was better at it than she.
To be fair, she’s kind of in a bad spot. Now that she’s been caught, she has one of three options:
1) Abandon her relationship with Billie, AKA the only real support network she has to stop herself from descending into suicidal depression.
2) Let Mary continue to blackmail her, with all the consequences that implies.
3) Come clean about her relationship, potentially lose her RA position and the pay/tuition that comes with it and endanger Billie at the same time.
Yes, if she were more morally upright, she might not even be in this position in the first place, but this is a situation that can result in Ruth seriously hurting herself. However bad she’s been, she doesn’t deserve that kind of self-destruction.
The one that has been mentioned in the comments, but none of the characters are thinking of it: Ruth and Billie ask for Billie to be moved to another floor. Might take a while, might involve paperwork, but not impossible.
If Billie gets moved, then Sal would get a new roommate, which means that Becky needs a new place to stay. But, Mary would have no more power over Ruth.
Yes, that would be a reasonable solution… if the school is reasonable about it. And who knows, they might be! But they’d be well within their rights, if they were informed about Ruth and Billie’s relationship, to simply terminate Ruth from her position.
I can actually see this as kind of a rallying moment: Mary pulls the trigger on her blackmail, Ruth is just on the verge of losing everything… and the other people on the floor come out to testify on her behalf, because god dammit, she gets some slack for supplexing Blaine, doesn’t she?
Option 4: Fix the problem. Use a combination of legitimate channels and lies to defuse all of Mary’s blackmail and then crush her utterly. Because really, Mary has next to nothing in terms of evidence for any of her claims.
The Sad Train was allowed to go on for much longer than could be seen as healthy for a significant number of characters and readers involved. Yes, Pure Happy is bad, but oh sweet jesus.
I might be a tad biased, because all the webcomics that I read and that update regularly all converged to have their sad and worrying moments happen on the same day and I was actually kinda emotionally not okay.
Mike knows, too, and I suspect that he won’t be keeping it to himself indefinitely. He’s probably waiting for the right time to humiliate Walky with this.
Is Dorothy actually out of earshot in that last panel? She had just started walking away in the previous panel.
I think he’s taking it way too seriously. So much that he can’t see he can fix his problems -by actually studying-, but he gets nervous and things get worse. :p
Of course in a lot of ways, math is one of the easiest things to study. You basically just do the problems they have at the end of each chapter. More than assigned if you’re still having trouble with them. Pay attention in class and dig through the text to figure out the ones you don’t understand. Usually, there are answers in the back so you know when you’re not doing it right.
It’s not easy, but the process is pretty straightforward, unlike some classes where it really isn’t clear where to start and there’s no way to check whether you’re getting it right until you hit tests and quizzes.
My biggest problems with math after high school were
Lecturing TAs in an auditorium with poor English diction, and
A later “teacher” who taught by “Today’s chapter is x, break up into groups and figure it out your own damn selves”.
My math teacher had a combination of bad English diction and an obsession with one of those programs that creates math problems for homework. He also had a bad habit of starting discussions about things like religion and history so he could dictate what those were because and I quote what he said when I pointed out he was factually wrong about something to do with the pledge of allegiance “You can’t know that, you’re not a history major.”
Not as true as is accepted as gospel! I learned how to study in high school. I didn’t /need/ to until late-Sophomore college, but I learned /how/ to. See, that whole ‘watch in class and you learn most of the material thing’? s’truth and all, but I had a teacher who taught us how to take notes and study. And it was in class, so…. XD
In our school at biology I think we were at some point explicitly taught how to take notes!
…well, not really. We were just told to look up the selected chapter and take notes on it, and that later they’d be checked.
I don’t remember exactly how I figured out I basically need to make a cheat list, but I did. Taking notes is suprisingly the same process – write out the most crucial points you are most likely to forget.
Ever since then, I took notes that way instead of writing down what the teacher was dictating, in all lessons. SO MUCH FREE DOODLING TIME.
…I guess I sorta knew how to study even if I was cruising on prior knowledge up until then. Huh.
…I figured it out. I studied English (not a native speaker) since kindergarten pretty much, and THAT part always took explicit effort STUDYING, and I started out doing it with my mom, so I was very much TAUGHT how to study. I just didn’t need it at school for the longest time.
She knows Walky is getting poor grades in math because she sits in his row. When the TA hands back the assignments, the people at the end of the row pass it to the other side. So when Joyce is handing the stack of papers toward the other side, she sees the grade on Walky’s paper. Or something like that.
As proof, did you see any negative comments about her in the comment thread for the last comic? No. No, you did not. Ergo, 100% respectful. QED, ipso facto, I R lawyer.
Strongly Agree. Willis and his trans readers were getting quite exhausted over it. Hell, I’m privileged and excessively patient, and even I was feeling a bit stretched. Let’s all just let the matter rest.
Um, those skates are way more stylish than platform shoes. When they’re working, they let her roll around all over the place. When they’re messed up, like they are now, they sort of have that cool “grunge” style, with the torn-up looking wheels and stuff. Grunge is getting popular again, right? Either way, she looks cool.
Yesterday was the first time it was ever stated in-comic, but otherwise we got a handful of hints throughout the comic and confirmed on Willis’ tumblr.
It’s been word of god canon for a long time now, and hinted at in the comic (comments about her being tall, unsure whether she’d be welcome at roller derby, and when she saw the penis drawn on her white board, she called it a hate crime til she saw everyone had one–then it was just hilarious)
But this last arc was the last time it was stated in so many words.
Didn’t she actually pay for a single room, though?
It was just that when Joyce introduced her to Becky, she thought there was a reason for that and didn’t know what it was.
Last I checked, most colleges charged each student in the dorms more per month than renting an off-campus apartment cost. (This was a state college, not a private university.) That’s per head, so a 500 square foot quad was pulling in $4,000 a month for the school. That’s just a bedroom, there were common areas and bathrooms for each floor, and a small kitchen in the basement. Add a meal plan on top of that (in our case a fixed cost per meal, which you’re budgeted three per day), plus fees collected for other extracurriculars…
There very much probably was. Putting the trans kid in a single room to sidestep the roommate situation is a fairly common thing and often part of the partial support trans kids get from “supportive campuses”.
It’s basically on the same level as having the trans kid use the single-stall bathroom in the teacher’s area to avoid “causing a conflict” with the whole “bathroom issue”.
I mean, the campus may be supportive, but you have to admit there would otherwise be the risk she’d end up roommates with someone like Mary. Sharing a bathroom with an intolerant asshole for a few minutes while you’re in the shower is one thing, but sharing a room might not be worth that risk.
That Carla is trans has never been explicitly stated in the comic. But there have been several clues. Also, Willis has explicitly said on Tumblr that DoA Carla is trans and asexual.
Initially, I thought Carla identified as Ultra Car, because I saw something about her being “trans-chassis.” Also the strip after the one about her being tall seemed confirmatory. But I did eventually learn that she was trans* through the comments section.
Euphoria (i.e. a feeling of resolving dysphoria, in this case gender dysphoria).
I’m very convinced that the skates are a crucial part of making her feel more comfortable in her body and her gender presentation. This is mostly based on her absolute joy when she acquired her skates and the fact that she didn’t smile at all during the comics when her skates were “on hiatus” as well as how much she wears them, especially in areas with other people she isn’t more relaxed around.
Which adds an extra layer of awful to Mary’s actions if she destroyed something crucial to her feeling comfortable in her skin and then slammed her with a massive load of transphobia right after. And it would also explain why she’s still hopping now rather than just taking off the skates and walking back to her room.
oh my god, I actually didn’t figure out that Mary was being transphobic…
I took her ‘boys’ dorm’ comment as something like the ‘i’ll leave for the monastery! male monastery!’ gag from that one kids’ cartoon… and I did know Carla was trans from the comments section.
I just… didn’t put 2+2 together.
Huh.
If she’s anything like me, she’s going to hop and HoP and HOP until Mary snaps and confronts her again, preferably in public with an authority figure around to hear the hate speech. I’d take the punishment for hopping around in broken skates that I could squarely pin on her and the glue stain in front of her door just to make someone with power over her deal with her.
Walky went to school where he had no problems with the work. A lot of our HS work is not demanding, and requires more memorization that it does thinking. They aren’t learning how to study.
The first semester of college requires work from day one. Three hours of homework is suggested for every hour you spend in class. Walky has been discovering that he has to learn to study, and he has no idea how and won’t admit it.
both but the latter happens first, dorothy decides she doesnt have a problem with walkys having poor grades, and then the former only happens later after walky decides he has a problem with it
This actually happened and yeah, Joyce instantly dragged him back and made him get back together with her so that she could dump him instead (the last part didn’t happen).
If they do ever break up, I’d say it’d happen because Walky eventually can’t deal with dating Dorothy while knowing it’s going to end (since the actual endpoint, Dorothy leaving, is never going to happen in the class).
If Walky learns to study and improves his grades, he’s not “right back where he was”. Kind of the opposite, really, and a much better place.
I can say this with confidence, since I’m also one of the “coasted straight through” crowd. I hit the wall in second or third year of university and never really recovered; now, many years later, I’ve come to understand it as one of the big contributing factors to the depression and massive self-esteem issues I still struggle with. I didn’t understand it at the time, and I really hope Walky gets over the denial and asks someone for help.
There’s something weird about them casually knowing who Carla is when they don’t really interact. I know logically everyone in the wing should be passingly familiar with each other, but it’s less real if we don’t ‘see’ it happen.
I checked the archives, Joyce and Carla were last seen together 14 months ago. So… I guess they do know each other. Ah, but this is the first time Dorothy and Carla have been together, and the second time for Carla and Walky. Thanks, + feature in the character archives.
Yeah, so did my ex-boyfriend, but he also had a wide group of friends who liked him well enough. There’s that sweet spot where everyone who knows you will agree you’re a total ass, but a fun one to be around.
She’s the lovable goofbutt, the type of person who’s gonna be rough around the edges and have a bone to pick with the world but is also gonna be an all right gal to spend time with.
Yeah, I think I was looking at it wrong because for the life of me I can’t actually see Carla ever doing anything that would land her the title of Dorm Asshole. The only people she’s been remotely curt with so far was Malaya, and loudly expressed how uncomfortable she was with the idea of ganging up on Amazi-Girl when for all she knew she was there to beat the hell out of all of them.
Yeah, she’s much more reminiscent of people I know who describe themselves as assholes, who nonetheless are the first people to help out in a crisis providing emotional support and wouldn’t dare hurt a fly.
I think a lot of it has to do with mistaking massive amounts of cynicism and disrespect for authority as making one an asshole.
And now that I think it, there’s never been a point where Carla doesn’t give what she can take. She ribbed Sal for her thing with Marcie and Malaya, but Sal’s tough and hasn’t been the chillest person with her either; that barbing is how they roll. She got mad nobody thought she was the Ding Dong Bandit because why doesn’t anyone think she pulled the sweet prank, huh?
And let us not forget, when she saw Amber, that nerdasaurus doofus bleeding and with broken glasses, she… promptly helped clean her up without a fuss because she knows how much of a pain in the ass it is to try and take care of this by yourself.
Carla strikes me as one of those kids who takes power in the label of Asshole, rather than actually ever acting it out.
It’s not just power, it’s safety. If you’re that weird asshole, you’re not “that acceptable target” or someone who’s a “mystery” to “solve”.
For someone who’s used to interactions with people that mostly involve badness, “asshole” can be a means of protecting oneself from the worst of it because getting left alone trumps getting beat up or harassed.
But yeah, I agree, that scene with Amber or the hangout scenes with Sal are where we see her let down her guard a little and show her real colors.
Carla bought those new skates with the secret Nazi gold her and Sal liberated from a disappeared German U-Boat lost for decades, while also thwarting the machinations of mercenaries seeking to claim it for their sinister ends.
Ooh, did any of them hold a brief speech about how the dead nazi guys’ possessions were just things worth nothing but the prize they fetch on the black market?
If Sal found Nazi gold she’d cash it in, buy the most expensive cycle known to humanity that can accept a sidecar, and she and Marcie would never be seen in the comic again. Willis would have to start a new comic revolving around their adventures as they travelled across America. Maybe Carla would get to come along, riding on jet rollerskates.
But you know Marice wouldn’t leave unless Marcie tagged along. Which means we get to have Sal and Malaya arguing more and maybe eventually becoming friends who just happen to hate each other.
It’s been about eight days since we’ve last seen them on panel together. It was when Joyce was showing Becky around, introducing her to everyone on the floor.
I had a bit of a shock when I found the unexpurgated Brothers Grimm in the University library. Quite a few fairy tales end with “Then the Jew was horribly tortured to death for a crime he didn’t commit and everyone else lived happily ever after. Hooray!” All the prettied-up and bowdlerised modern versions suddenly start to look good.
You want to really blow your mind, try reading the psychological version of a fairy tale. Snow White as a nymph, sex with the dwarves, growing up and becoming a woman.
If it helps, Joyce is on her way back to visit her fundie family, taking her newly-expanded horizons with her, and we’ve seen Jocelyne in preview panels.
I’m sure this week’s depiction of a trans girl being attacked by a bigoted fundie, and being hung out to dry by people who should support her, won’t turn out to be relevant to Joyce’s family visit at all, nope, nosiree.
It’s more that he’s probably carrying around this self-identity of smart because he could cruise through high school without having to try. Now he can’t do that any longer and that’s a blow to how he sees himself.
So I have to say at first I was mad at Willis for closing comments on these last few comics. I find the comments almost as entertaining as the comic. Then I realized: he’s a new dad to twins… I’m sure he doesn’t have the time to police the comments anymore. So I understand, even if I don’t like it sometimes.
I mean he could…just not do that? I’m pretty sure there’s apps(or whatever you call them) where you can do the downvote/upvote thing, and if a comment gets enough downvotes it gets deleted.
Not sure how. If it’s just the two or three trolls they’d be outnumbered by the people here. It also saves Willis the stress of having to read that shit all the time.
Or ya’ know, if that doesn’t work we could always ignore them.
I can see a mechanism to work around that, although it’s not perfect.
1. Registration wall.
2. New accounts require manual post approval.
3. New account sign-up shut off entirely during controversial comics.
4. Ration moderation points based on reputation and time spent as a member. (This has its own potential for abuse (primarily promoting groupthink) if the point rationing isn’t designed properly, though – see Slashdot.)
Not all of those measures are strictly necessary, though – the QC forums went through a wave of transphobic commenters when Claire came out as trans, and managed it through #1 and a strong moderation team that was being advised by the trans members of the forum (some of which are now moderators themselves). No downvoting system required.
However, particularly trollish types may brigade a forum such that #2 or #3 is needed. And, #4 is actually an attempt to counteract extremely persistent trolls that pre-register new accounts to counteract #3 (I’ve actually been on a forum where trolls did pre-register new accounts years before getting their main account banned, even, so that they could keep using new accounts with less suspicion because they weren’t chronologically new).
My only experience with a reputation system is Stack Exchange sites so while I think it could work I can’t think of how you’d gain rep.
I do like the idea that people would have to earn the right to leave more than one comment though. I also like the idea that trusted users can get moderation powers so this isn’t all on Willis.
The big problem I see with this is how to implement it. Is there an existing comment platform with these features?
The Sims 4 forums initially tried the “upvote” “downvote” route for self-policing…and it led to trolls not only using proxies and multivoting, but getting friends to join the boards for the sole purpose of helping them bury people who disagreed with them, annoyed them, or turned them in for breaking the rules. The vocal minority in support of following the rules got buried because they were afraid of getting banned by trying to set up multiple accounts, and the trolls didn’t care so they set up a new account every time they were buried. It also filled the moderator queue with literal false flags, wherein the trolls revenge reported people for no reason every time they got reported for a rule violation.
I used to moderate a high-traffic blog and it was not uncommon for some troll to go grab a gang of troll buddies who’d just bounce from profile to profile and IP address to IP address to try and flood the comment threads morning, noon, and night in order to try and strangle out any form of communication between people. Took an army of moderators to eventually fully shut that shit down (that guy and his friends had literally no life).
Yeah, that never works. I know the common refrain is “don’t feed the trolls” but the result of that is people are free to saty awful, bigoted crap with zero repercussions or push back. This is especially bad for the folks in those groups being attacked. By not pushing back the community is tolerating those viewpoints and can even appear to agree with them.
Piling on those comments may not change those folks’ minds but at least the people being targeted see that the majority of the community doesn’t agree with them.
It’s understandable. I used to moderate a political discussion board that got maybe half as many people as you usually see in these comment sections, and even with 2-3 moderators and a “things that will get you banned” list that was literally one single rule, there were days when it felt like we needed 10+ mods to keep up with the waves of trolls and people making personal attacks. *Especially* when the issues this comic usually deals with came up.
The fact that Willis is able to moderate the comments section alone is a damn feat. I might not like the locked comments sections, but I completely understand why it was done.
Much as I’ve been entertained by the comment community here, it’s getting extremely painful to read the archives now. It’s amazing how much faster the comment-less pages load.
i just figured he expected people to be terrible, because there are certain topics for which that is an inevitability, and trans people is one of them.
(well, to be fair, people don’t need much excuse to be assholes, but for some reason “people having a better idea of who they are than the people who aren’t them” gets some folk SO MAD.)
I feel really bad for Carla; Joyce wouldn’t have caved in to Mary’s bullshit tactics. I hope that if they do confront each other, they start arguing in Bible verses, at first recalling them verbatim, then just shouting the book and verses at each other. And then Joyce ends it with “EZEKIEL 25:17!” and knocks her out.
I’m a student like Walky (you know, the “smart enough to never learn to study” type) but I can’t figure out how to make myself turn it around. I get really mad at myself sometimes because I’ll sit down to try and start seriously studying or researching or writing an in-depth essay and it’s like my brain was magnetically repulsed from the work. After a screening test from a psychologist it’s starting to look like I actually might have ADHD, so that was… a fun surprise. Anyway, I’m really interested to see the “brilliant but lazy”/”never learned to study” trope played out with (what seems to be so far) a neurotypical person.
Why stop at coffee? I’ve had it from multiple sources that adderol, aka laboratory developed, tested and manufactured speed, is routinely used in college settings.
Apparently in the Ivy league schools, you’re “not even in the game” if you don’t take adderol.
And no one really knows what the long, long term effects are because it was only developed in ’94. Fun stuff.
So, this comment chain goes “after many academic problems my psychologist and I are looking at a possible ADHD diagnosis” -> “coffee helps” -> “hey you know what sucks? an established medical treatment for ADHD” and it’s really bizarre. I don’t think you’re having the same conversation as darkoneko and me.
If he has ADHD, Adderall can definitely help. You see, people with ADHD have what’s called a “paradoxic reaction” to stimulants – it actually calms the brain function down, rather than overexciting it. Coffee does help, as the caffeine has a calming effect, but for clinical cases other medications can make a real difference.
If you want a case in point, come sit for my ten-year-old on a day when he hasn’t had his Adderall. Bring earplugs, you’ll need ’em.
I’m actually a “she”, but other than that you’re spot on. Clinical use of Adderall is not some “kids today!” fad, it’s a proven medical treatment for a real medical disorder.
This. I once said to MD that I didn’t get what’s to abuse with Ritalin, because I don’t feel anything I’d abuse it for. He said that that is because I’m someone for whom it’s appropriate. That doesn’t mean that adhd meds aren’t prescrI bed inappropriately and aren’t abused by people without prescriptions, but that’s a poor ass reason to make it hard or impossible for people to get them for whom they’re a game changer.
I know this almost certainly isn’t how it actually works, but I’ve often been tickled by the notion that this is due to pushing an unsigned integer over its maximum (e.g., 255) and rolling over to a much lower value (say, 20).
Sometimes a different way of studying can help. I had trouble with one language so I started writing words over and over, drawing flashcards, but I think what helped was making it kinetic when normally I am more visual. Bad explanation, but if reading the material doesn’t work, trying harder on the reading is probably not the answer.
I needed to start in my second degree befor I learned how to study.
I hated to learn it, because “why do I have to learn stuff that’s so irrelevant? Interesting things stick in my mind without me needing to do something”. But this is just the mind playing tricks, don’t listen.
I read a few books on techniques first, because I really had no clue where to start.
For me, reading stuff and writing out the most important aspects on cue cards and reciting them while doing so worked and provide cue cards for rote learning in the process. When working with the cue cards, I walk in my apartment, thus sitting less.
For you,other methods might be more fitting, it’s really kind of trial and error to find out.
Best of luck.
I was one of those! ADHD and all. I aced every class that I was interested in, failed every class that required more from me than just being smart. It took an abnormal psychology class in college to make me think that maybe, I wasn’t just a slacker. Once I was diagnosed and medicated (“adderrall is the same as meth” = “h2o is the same as h2o2”, learn chemistry, people), it helped a TON. I learned to study, but I also had the focus and patience to study. People think ADHD is an inability to focus, but it’s really that brains with ADHD try to focus on everything at once – we’re trying to hit a bullseye with birdshot. Adderall gave me better ammunition. I still had to learn to aim, but it was easier.
Yes. ADHD is a seriously misleading name, that actually does harm. When I was a kid my folks laughed at the suggestion that I was ADD because I hyper focused so strongly. And I absorbed that and never investigated the possibility, for decades–till by chance I read the right thing and recognized myself. My therapist tells me this is still common, parents saying ‘Billy can’t be ADHD because …” and when he asks if Billy also does X,Y,Z, its yes, yes, yes. “ADHD” is a complex of attention and focus issues, AND doesn’t always involve “H”, AND is often enough co-morbid with depression &/or anxiety, which can mask the A/F issues AND complicate treating them.
We all know it’s gonna be Sarah that takes over, and not only is she as mean as Ruth, she’s pretty much impossible to manipulate. And Mary will push her luck and Sarah will strike her down with a mighty vengeance, etc. etc.
…I would like to see Sarah take on that job, now that you mention it. Be interesting to see how she handled it, if she just brought herself to interact more with people. She’s been acting to aid people and look after people several times; it seems to be a natural impulse to her.
Also, I want to send out an early beg to everyone. Please don’t start any victim-blaming stuff about Carla on this thread. Yesterday’s comic hit home for a lot of people, myself included. Those expectations that one must be perfect not even to be treated humanely, but to be treated as something severely less tends to heavily haunt a lot of trans women and as such, may be an extremely sensitive topic.
I’m… in a place. The last comic affected me pretty deeply and I’m still in a major vulnerable space, but I’m using my main battery of self-care techniques to try and take care of myself.
But if I run off rather than engage if the comments go awful, you shouldn’t be surprised or worried, as it just means I’ll be enacting said self-care techniques.
Totally fair. Here’s hoping things stay good today, and either way, be well! And I know I’m a total stranger, but if you ever need someone to talk at/to, I’m here.
I would like to third this. And I’d also like to remark that you are an incredibly brave and nice person. Thank you for helping stand against ignorance, and just being a great person in general.
Please take good care of yourself first of all. Your comments are always insightful and it’s been especially encouraging to read them countering some ignorant comments on this arc. But your wellbeing is more important. I’m another stranger, and not very verbal right now, but I really wish this.
(The same to anyone else in the same situation. You’re important, please do what makes you feel most okay, folks.)
Cerberus, I just want you to know that I find your comments enlightening and helpful. My youngest (14) is a trans boy and try as I might, I know I can never fully understand all of the struggles he deals with (there are other,albeit unrelated, issues that make it harder for him to deal with the personal issues that come up. As a result, he has a hard time expressing his feelings about what he is going through to his mother or me. I find your remarks helpful, so I thank you for that.
I’m impressed by your strength. This last scene was painful to read, but I don’t think I can even imagine what it was like for someone who lives it every day.
Cerberus, I hope you pull through okay. Take good care of yourself, no matter what. I’m glad you have ways of dealing with this kind of, as you put it, ‘vulnerability’.
In fact, I’d like the first paragraph of this comment to apply to everyone here. You’re all amazing people, and no matter how hard-hitting and painful a strip is, no matter how scary and difficult life might be, remember the rest of us. We’re here for you.
Everyone here will support each other, so don’t be afraid. Don’t give up, and remember that we will help if we can. You’re all like a second family to me, and I’ll care for you just the same. I trust that this feeling is mutual for everyone here, despite occasional disagreements.
There was a reason those comments were closed: it was exhausting Willis and his trans readers to try and keep up with all the comments. I think it’s wisest for all of us to let the whole matter rest for now.
Cerberus, I was thinking: If people still just can’t help themselves, perhaps a whole bunch of us can take shifts as defenders against transphobic comments, or requesters for Willis to delete things, so that you know you can relax. Would that be white-knighting you, or would that be helpful?
Echoing some of the other comments, but I’ll also thank you for posting everything you have. I really value your insight. And it makes me feel even more emotionally attached not just to the comic but to its real-life similar incidents. Yesterday’s comic had me sick to my stomach–I can’t even begin to imagine the kind of impact on people who live it.
I can’t figure out where this will post, but here goes:
Cerberus, like others here I always look for your comments (and some others): I learn from you, I feel better for your voice, and I admire your hard won knowledge and wisdom and (relative?) equinimity. DoA without the Good Commenting wouldn’t be a fraction as important to me as it is (with NO offense to DMW, who I appreciate as much for his work maintaining his comment section for us as for his “comic”).
I honestly can’t get over how nice Dorothy is in this comic. She really is in her zone when she’s helping other people and it’s really bringing out an even better side than we usually see. The warmness she’s showing to both Carla and Joyce is really heart-warming, even though as an activist I know she needs to be careful about that to ensure she doesn’t burn herself out trying to be the ray of sunshine to people in very dark funks.
Huh. That actually seems like a probable next challenge of personal development for her to me. I mean, besides her relationship conflict, Dorothy’s done well in nearly every situation that she finds herself in, finding things to say to friends, being diplomatic, while keeping up her own studies at a high pace, etc. Willis is likely to give her some other big challenge to face, and this “learning it the hard way” could be it. At least I wouldn’t be surprised, considering what we’ve seen of her so far.
(I had a teacher like her for two school years. Like you, I suppose? She worked wonders for us kids who had her, as I bet you do, but she also did burn herself out more than once.)
Honestly, given her desired career path, I kind of hope she burns herself out in the timeframe of the comic. Largely because the younger you can learn those lessons of the importance of scheduling recharge time and taking care of your own mental health the better.
Yeah, that would be ideal if it is to happen anyway. If she has a bit of a crash during college, she’ll have good time to get back on her feet and figure out how to avoid that in the future.
I don’t even like Carla but I want to give her a hug. I really want her to come ahead on this somehow, like, IDK, maybe something like: okay, sure, she had to deal with Mary’s dirtbaggery and Ruth’s cowardice but at the end of the day the entire rest of the dorm has rallied around her and made her feel welcomed and valued.
considering dorothys current “its only 20 minutes” attitude mainly started based on the fact that walky gets great grades without studying, and how much losing study time used to upset her, how much is she going to panic when she finds out
Joyce being sort of thoughtful about Walky’s grades? But expressing it with a sort of passive-aggressive subtle snark to it? Normally Joyce would not give two bags of llama doots about Walky, and would express her disdain in no uncertain terms. What is going on here? This does not feel right.
I think she’s very very very tired. Her sentence about going to study or whatever seems less euphemistic to me than like an expression of that tiredness. I also think that she maybe finds Dorothy a bit extra tiring to be around, because she doesn’t want to ever snap at her, and that means keeping a tighter emotional leash on herself.
So in part I think yeah she didn’t want to embarrass Walky in front of Dorothy, but also I think passive-aggression takes less energy than forthrightness. This way she can tell Walky to fix it and walk away, instead of having to endure Dorothy’s pain and surprise and denial.
I don’t think she was tryong to be passive-aggressive, I think she was trying to tell Walky to study without letting Dorothy know he is having trouble. Unfortunately, that means she couldn’t say anything too directly which does look exactly the same as passive-aggressiveness.
I wish the comments section wasn’t locked for the last few comics. I wanted to clear up something I said a couple comics ago where I felt that Mary was in the right (before she threatened Ruth). I was unaware that Carla was Trans. The remark that Mary made to Carla didn’t seem at all bad to me. But, after a few people rudely explained it to me, I now know that Carla did not deserve that in any way. It was never really stated in this comic that I can remember, and I honestly thought Carla was being a jerk-face, and I still do. However, she did not deserve that comment from Mary in any way.
I’m glad you’ve come to understand that, but on the matter of us “rudely” explaining things, I hope you can understand that too many of these honest mistakes (and I absolutely understand that a lot of folks on the “I don’t get what’s wrong” wagon didn’t know that Carla was trans and very tellingly turned that view around when they learned), can come across the same way as deliberate attempts at harm, and it’s difficult for us to try and sift through the big mess and separate the folks who are lacking in that crucial knowledge and context, and people who are just braying jackasses.
I completely understand! And honestly if I had known that Carla is trans and someone would say that they thought Mary was in the right then I don’t know how I would respond to that.I hate it when people say this, but I have a close friend who is trans and he reads these comments. He also did not know why Mary was being ganged up on (at the time that’s what it felt like to us). Now we know.
People were rude because they are extremely accustomed to the braying jackasses. I’m glad that you were/are among the non-jackasses! Thank you for clarifying.
She goes to the church as Joyce, if I remember correctly, and seems to follow the same religion. But she seems a lot more flexible in her interpretation of the whole thing and that’s really kinda nice.
It also helps that she’s just damn adorable to look at.
Yeah, Hank was kind of a jerk, but he was still like, “Okay Joyce, I know you need to make your own decisions, and I’m glad you’re still being kind to people and standing up for your own faith.”
Joyce’s mom clearly wasn’t on board with that, and after seeing Joyce’s views in the Gender Studies class earlier, I’m guessing she just bit her tongue because the dad is The Patriarch and she’s “supposed to” go along with his decisions.
Pretty sure they’re both going to be kind of assholes about Becky though, and if Joycelene ever comes out… whoo boy, she’d better do it by phone from the moon, because that’s the only place she MIGHT be able to avoid the fallout radiation from their immense amounts of shock and judginess.
In the Ding-Dong-Bandit arc I thought she thought it was a hate crime because she just had sex a lot or something. Now that I know the truth I can see all the signs. I feel Like Danny when he finally found out about Amber/Amazigirl. I am surprised that it hasn’t been completely stated yet before now. I had completely forgotten that Carla had her own room too.
I think Willis planted it really nicely because you might miss it if you’re not used to reading the signs, but if you are, then it’s more and more obvious. The whole room to herself + being tall and uncertain if she’d be welcome in the roller derby team said it for me.
(Hm. I have trans girls among my friends. Perhaps I notice other cues than you, if your only friend you know is trans is a guy.)
Yeah. To me, it was increasingly screamingly obvious, but to someone not as familiar with her counterpart or less used to noticing little signs like that, it was definitely subtle enough to be missed. And it serves as a nice parallel to how that works in life sometimes, where if someone is already out, the new crews can sometimes just assume that they are straight or cis or so on until told otherwise despite all the clues.
And I think that is especially true when a person isn’t knowing to look for clues. After all, in a lot of fiction, Carla would be cis, simply because trans characters would be non-existent or only on the far fringes if its not specifically a trans-focused story, so why would you expect a regularly recurring character is going to be trans in most fiction?
Or she’d be someone who is only ever hinted as being trans without it ever being confirmed, just like in a wink-and-nod way so that they can get the trans market without actually having to take the risk of including real trans representation.
They do this to bi characters a lot (see Supernatural – the way Dean has evolved is mega bi-baiting), when we’re not treated as walking fetish objects (see House MD), and I would have negative surprise if trans folk have the same experiences, by and large, regarding their representation in media.
House MD made me so angry. I thought House was going to have to admit that he was wrong for once, and that asexuality is completely valid. But instead it was just like, “Nah man, the dude’s just suffering from some disease. We can fix it. Also his wife was just totally faking it.”
I had to quit watching because of how the writers handled Thirteen.
(I was happy to see her at first – I thought it had real potential to be good representation of a bi person with a neurodegenerative disorder. But then, of course, that didn’t happen and they went the stereotype and titillation route instead)
… and yeah that’s without going into all the ableism and shit that goes on in that show. I watched it longer than I really wanted to cuz I thought it had potential, but the potential went flying out the window faster than Joyce’s gloves.
Ugh House. And yeah, that oh here’s a bi character, but not out loud or only as “ooh, sexy lady times but will she get with a main cast member” garbage is hella annoying.
Sadly, the representation we get in episodic or long-form media is: 1) One-off character who probably dies/is revealed to be evil/murderous, 2) character who’s got all the signs of being trans but the creator goes out of their way to emphasize that they’re not even a little trans [bonus points if the creator is super gross about i] (Shiek/Zelda), 3) one-off joke character to make the standard male character’s masculinity is threatened/called into question by sleeping with a trans woman and now he must make a “comedic” show of how disgusted he is by this revelation.
Not trans, but a different unrepresented gender minority: Do you remember the intersex girlfriend-character on Freaks & Geeks? That is the sole representation I’ve ever seen of an intersex person on TV, but hey, an actually-positive one! She was consistently presented as thoroughly appealing, especially for her sense of humour, and a romantic relationship with her was set up as the happy ending.
(The show never actually said the word ‘intersex’ or ‘assigned female at birth’, but she thoroughly described what it meant to her, so I think this was to highlight that the characters knew no words for what was going on.)
I wonder if Marvel comics count as episodic/long term? Because holy crap Loki and Young Avengers. And it’s not just one run, too – different writers seem to pick this up and run with it in their own ways. And I’m not talking about The Gay Couple, I’m talking about “Am I the only straight person here? – Nah, Princess, I’ve seen the way you look at me, you’re not that straight either” and “my child who is both son and daughter” and just. Mmm. More. More. More.
I still like Supernatural, but I’m also really tired of the baiting, and related …issues… Have kicked that all-in enjoyment to the curb for me. Can’t get into the show like before again. (season ten spoiler, so I don’t want to get specific)
Yeah, I liked the way it mirrored real life like that.
And ditto on all the stuff about House and other shows. The ones with relatable such characters who get to be people and heroes, those shows are few.
The baiting is bad in a lot of anime, too. (I like Tiger & Bunny though, and Key the Metal Idol – both unconfirmed / ambiguous relationships but to my eye, really obvious. And part of a bigger plot.)
Scientists spend most of their time poking around with stuff they can’t explain, like “how do these separate theories work together”, “how does this newly identified not fully characterized phenomena work” or “where do grant money come from”.
Firstly, Walky clearly is so unused to perceiving the unspoken that he has a difficult time imagining anyone else could do it. For example, he never expected Joyce to notice and maybe even worry about all that red ink on his test papers when she passes them to him.
Yeah, she should have respected his privacy but, you know something? If she can needle him into taking action about his academic problems, he’ll end up thanking her for being nosey.
Secondly, we’ve learned that Carla is so basically weird that no-one else will question her bunny-hopping down the hall on a pair of busted roller-skates.
Weirdness is a great for defense. See Dina’s early comic about how being the “dinosaur chick” spared her some of the usual homophobia people get. It also makes you disarmingly silly, like, look at me goofy little marginalized group member, please don’t interpret me as a threat to your social order you “need” to murder with fire.
Oh dear, Walky’s secret shame is out. Joyce know his dirty secret and uses it to… gently nudge him in the right direction and give him advice without outing him or trying to cohere him.
So in regards to the recent string of comments-disabling, I don’t think you need to be that scared of your own audience. I mean, I get that people will say things you don’t agree with, that should be expected, but that’s not something to be afraid of. Hearing contrary opinions is how we grow as people, and open ourselves up to new views and ways of thinking. Yeah, a lot of them can seem very outlandish and against our core beliefs, but doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing shouldn’t be the go-to answer.
I don’t agree with a lot of the views posted in the comments, or every view pushed in the comic itself, but I stick around anyway. It’s interesting to see other views on things, and the ways people think and express themselves. I surmise that hearing contrary opinions on transgender individuals is the thing either you don’t want to see, and I get that it’s a touchy subject, but I do think it’s a good thing to have talked about.
Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there. Keep up the good work and such.
You’re barking up the wrong tree entirely. Willis isn’t scared of discussion or contrary opinions (hah! hahaha… oh man, I read his tumblr). The comments were closed because (a) he has two new babies to take care of and doesn’t have as much time or energy as normal, and (b) the reason (a) is a factor is that these topics tend to be extremely sensitive and hurtful for real-life people affected by the real-life issues raised. It’s not just an academic discussion.
You’ve got us dead to rights. We, trans people aren’t interested in hearing “contrary” opinions on the humanity of trans people largely because of our fear of personal growth.
Why, after my last encounter with a “gender critical” TERF, wherein she told my family that I was delusional and needed reparative therapy and has since helped “educate” them to the point where I am fully disowned from said family, I feel so much stronger.
I’m sure if a bunch of equally helpful people flooded the comment sections on posts like the last one which hit so hard as to put me and others in a majorly vulnerable state, thus depriving me of my usual layers of armor for dealing with such things, I’d be so helped that I’d be so very grateful for all the “growth” opportunities I would have received.
Bob damn it, if I only had a dollar for every time someone tried to argue that putting up with intensely dehumanizing statements reminiscent of recent trauma somehow made one stronger.
Also, side note, I find it eminently illuminating how frequently dominant group members assume that marginalized group members are as ignorant about dominant culture and opinions as dominant group members.
Cause, we’re actually not. You can’t be a marginalized group member in society and not get hit with all manner of dehumanizing ugliness, seeing just what dominant groups often think of us, or how dominant society works and operates. It’s the sole focus of our media, our culture, and our public discussions. It’s normalized and ever-present. It’s impossible for us not to have heard the “contrary” views to our humanity a million and a half times before, because it is the background radiation of every hate campaign we have ever withstood and every shitty interaction in society.
But, it’s understandable in a way too, for dominant group members to believe it.
Because it’s comforting.
Because dominant group members don’t have to know minority life experiences, can remain in ignorance all their lives and need to be carefully taught. They don’t get to learn that minority life experiences exist unless someone hits them with “contrary” knowledge.
And that’s after a lifetime of being told one’s viewpoints are the smartest and most valid. So it’s comforting to imagine that the marginalized “other” is similarly ignorant of your lifestyle and “viewpoints” on their humanity.
Because then it’s not a matter of privilege and ignorance but a nice happy kumbyah where no one really needs to be “challenged” per se or “grow” in hard and scary ways, and instead we can just dialogue about how those marginalized people are just too sensitive to hear “contrary” opinions unlike us.
Thanks. (Should probably explain – I understand the term but, having not been on the receiving end myself, didn’t want to accidentally link directly to something that seemed right but had some non-obvious problems.)
No, it’s a good idea with things like this to be hesitant to click the first link, because groups like the TERFs like to search-engine optimize articles for any trans subject with hateful BS about how all trans people are evil so sometimes that’s near the top of a lot of searches.
Trans-exclusionary radical feminists. Basically, professional transphobes who have this whole elaborate conspiracy theory about how “men” are secretly becoming incredibly socially powerless trans women in order to sneak into women’s only spaces and rape everyone/force all women everywhere to sleep with individuals with penises.
It’d be rolling one’s eyes so hard they skip across the floor worthy if they didn’t tend to express their hatred by finding young, often vulnerable trans girls online, group harassing them, outing them to dangerous individuals, slamming them constantly with their dead name, and trying to drive them to suicide.
My TERF was the easy mode of all that settling for the aforementioned “trans is a delusion, reparative therapy would cure it” BS and “educating” my family in all manner of ignorant ass conspiracy theories about our “evil” and she still fucked my life up and good.
I don’t know how things are in the US. I think it basically started out with the fear of the gender stereotypes being enforced by having people transition (at least that’s a point Janice Raymond made in Transsexual Empire, yeah, I know, bad book), i.e. that with transitioning available, the socially accepted norms for women’s behavior would become stricter again as trans women had to conform to ridiculously old-fashioned performances of femininity to be allowed to transition (at the time that book was written, sometimes in the 1970ties or early 80ties).
The fear of the invasion of women’s spaces was there, is there, and has to do with the facts that not only if I have to take someone’s word for their gender identity, there will be jerks who just do it as a joke, but worse, even asking in itself already is considered rude, so how am I supposed to protect the women’s space? Unfortunately, going by ‘Is around women I know’ or ‘seen her in here before’ only works for regulars and excludes the most vulnerable.
The other fact is that for some people, the experience of violence is strongly associated with the male sex and with the combination of being asked to ignore your own perception ( of the gender of person in front of you) this is a really strong trigger.
Point is: People will sometimes be afraid of trans people. Their fear doesn’t make them transphobes, but what they do to deal with it might.
Don’t ask people not to be afraid of trans people. Fear is a feeling like any other. It’s there or not, not something you decide to have or not. But how you act, that’s a decision!
(Just in case this wasn’t clear already: It is not the job of any trans person to do something about such fears or point out that they themselves are nice, harmless or whatever. Why should they?)
TERF conspiracies aside, my wife has actually, factually dealt with Gender-essentialist Trans activists. It is, or at least was, seriously and honestly a thing. But most people can’t name them, least of all TERFs, so I doubt it’s really motivating them that much. I mean, convenient smokescreen, but still.
As far as people lying about their gender identity to get into women’s spaces… not gonna happen anywhere where you don’t have to take them at their word anyway (IE the internet). For all the talk about how it’s totes going to happen, it genuinely doesn’t. The fear might be better grounded if trans people weren’t reviled, but in the USA as it exists? It’s a fairy song of a fear, it’s like being scared a reverse KKK might be started. And TERFs complain about trans men too, which if this were ACTUALLY why, you wouldn’t see. TERFs might be a small issue on a systemic level for trans women, but they’re still complete bastards who hurt a lot of trans women personally, they’re just not our final boss (That’s the general public). And I’ve never heard of it in places where Trans women don’t have to fear for their lives, but the fact that they’re not as cissexist means it wouldn’t necessarily be a huge coup to catch the like, one guy or gal that does it.
And yes, that fear is on some level, cissexist, although it’s true that that is most obvious when they act on it. If they can work past it, I don’t really care, either. But even if it’s associated with massive triggers, and I would not consider it blameworthy in that instance, it is still cissexist. These ideas don’t stop being harmful to a large group of people even if I wouldn’t get mad at you for having them. It’s like saying it’s not racist to fear black men extra because a black person assaulted you – to the extent it is true, it is true because the most important thing is actions, but it’s still a racist fear.
Also, yeah, trans people thanks to the Harry-Benjamin standards have been historically forced into parodies of masculinity or femininity in order to access medical care which often leads to some dumbass ideas, but that’s on the cis gatekeepers rather than the trans people themselves just trying to access medical care they need.
And yeah, gender-essentialist trans people exist and I’ve run into at least one. Most of the time, they’re mostly about being shitty to non-binary trans people and trying to enforce a “tru trans” mentality.
Also the invasion thing? Super transphobic no matter how you slice it. Any time you think that a minority group is going to “secretly” invade a space, you’re being bigoted in some manner whether it is fears that women are going to “invade” the male spaces and ruin them, fears that latin@s are going to “invade” America and ruin them, or whether trans women are going to “invade” women’s only spaces and ruin them.
And it’s also garbage, because much like the “person pretending to be trans to molest people in the bathroom” thing, it doesn’t actually happen. If a man wants to ruin a woman’s only space, he doesn’t need to put on an outfit and most sexist men that would ruin said spaces often has massive amounts of insecurity surrounding anything that even resembles the “feminine”. They’re way more likely to just burst in and be a complete ass or catcall or jeer from the sidelines rather than concoct some elaborate disguising oneself as a trans woman to… what exactly? plan.
But the conspiracy theory lives on, because once someone’s decided to hate a minority group, you really need a manufactured reason that makes them the “real instigators” who must be stopped (see why groups like the Video Game thing that shall not be named make elaborate theories on why people who criticize sexism in video games are part of a giant movement to ban video games forever and otherwise ruin everything).
Actually, I don’t get this “invading bathrooms”- stuff. In a women’s space or even just an ordinary women’s rest room, I usually have stalls, so WTF?
The fear of suberversion of women’s spaces is a different kettle of fish.
I’m not into conspiracy theories, so I think the idea of “undercover men” in feminist political groups rather hilarious. It is always was a sound strategy of people in power to pit their critics against each other, though, so I would look their way to the source of these ideas (Russian media are stirring up Russian-speaking Germans against refugees right now with a story of a (Russian-speaking, naturally) girl that was allegedly raped, though the German police state that there is no indication this actually happened – to me, that is the same kind of story).
Cis- women spaces, trans-inclusive women’s spaces, queer spaces and het spaces all have their own feels and come with ideas of their level of security, freedom and things that are possible there. For some Cis-women, because of their history, some freedom is lost when the space is open for trans people. So we have two minority groups competing for resources because they seem to be mutually exclusive and it’s not like women’s spaces are that many to begin with.
It’s a real bummer that this leads to infighting instead helping each other out.
BTW: My reaction to some trans women used to be on the level of Joyce’s to the harmless guy in the escalator here. Even if had known them for some time, if my perception of male/female switched repeatedly, I had panic attacks. I knew it wasn’t their fault, still there wasn’t anything I could do and the idea of them being in all women’s spaces was totally terrifying because that reduced my public safe spaces to zero. It got better after I managed to deal more with my trauma, but I still remember how unsolvable this all was 20 years ago. And even then, the scene in “better than chocolate” where the trans women is attacked in the women’s bathroom just because she was there was totally shocking to me – and it may have been one of the moments where I realized that trans women may have more factual reason to be afraid of me then vice-versa even though it collided with my world-view that women are not physically violent towards people who have not already physically attacked them. (taking about skewed world views….)
So, um…I wrote a book about a teen transgirl (Thundercracker is a terrible influence on me). Towards the end, the main character, Veronica, uses the girl’s bathroom to pee and to re-apply her make-up because she’s at a school dance with her girlfriend.
In a later scene, school officials are discussing changes to the rules for dances to make it more gender inclusive and I had a character make the same arguments that TERFs make against trans women.
My editor, a mother of three boys, got really angry at this character and didn’t get the bathroom as safe spaces argument at all. I think she thought I was pulling this from my fusion cannon. From her perspective, a bathroom was just a place to pee and wash-up. She understood the earlier scene, after spending the whole book only using single-occupancy bathrooms, that using a more public one would be nerve-racking. But this idea of bathroom as some kind of sacred space didn’t sound like anything a real person would say.
She also didn’t know that a high school would have specific rules against cross-dressing, or that they would be used to inform cissexist norms. She was a great editor, but it was weird when I got these notes about TERF arguments and HS rules. Unfortunately, there really are people like that. And they don’t all sound like Donald Trump.
I spend so much time around this stuff, I forget that others may experience hesitation that anyone’s beliefs could be like that.
TERFs also think that trans men are women who’ve been socialized into hating themselves so badly that the only way they can feel good about themselves is to “pretend” to be men. Hence why a lot of TERFs will hang out with trans men, because they feel that by socializing with supportive women, the trans men will be able to “reconnect with their true gender” and stop being trans. This is why so much of their language focuses on “women born women” and whatever. I’ve been told as much in so many words (after I was blindsided by TERFy hatred coming out of the mouth of someone I knew in meatspace and asked her why she felt that way… and yeah that friendship ended pretty quickly after that).
And a lot of them engage in harassment and malicious outing of trans people, filing of nuisance suits intended to silence trans people and their allies, and trying to harass trans people into suicide (such as the especially hateful One Who Will Not Be Named because saying her name on the internet in a discussion on trans rights is like putting up the fucking bat-signal for transphobic bigotry and harassment and no I will not put the trans people here through that but please just take my word for it that she is weirdly obsessive about using her wealth and power to make trans people’s lives a living hell).
Oh yeah, the weird paternalism they show towards trans men is gross as all hell. Really, everything to do with them is pretty darn gross which I suppose is true of any dedicated bigot movement.
I am happily baffled at how you keep putting words to reactions I feel but can’t piece together into a coherent message. That was just so
It was like, like a tangled knot of thoughts in me just untied. (Thank you; that saves me a lot of precious “batteries”.)
Cereberus frequently seems to just take the entire jumbled mass of arguments and feelings I have in my head but can’t articulate and then arranges them into a coherent and well constructed essay.
My post wasn’t aimed at trans people, more at Willis himself (I don’t follow his Tumblr), but it does apply to pretty much everyone I suppose. I firmly believe that communication is the method to defeating issues of equality and other alike social issues.
I’m sorry you feel burdened by the wealth of opinions on the matter, but I do think it is a necessary evil if we want things to improve. Improvement is a slow process, of course. You might see things get a little better decades at a time, much like gender equality, racism, and so on. These are all ongoing battles, but things do get better with time. Unfortunately, progress on these matters is quite slow.
That being said, I’m already seeing some compelling discussion here, I’m pleased to see people voicing their thoughts.
Man, fuck you. “I’m sorry you feel burdened by the wealth of opinions on the matter” when the matter is THE HUMANITY OF A FUCKING PERSON, you condescending jizzstain.
Yes, I am fucking burdened by the wealth of people telling me I am an abomination and advocating not just for denying me basic medical treatment but for subjecting me and people like me to psychological torture. We are literally endangered by their “opinions” and just because it all seems like an academic issue to you doesn’t mean it is. Get some perspective and empathy dude you sorely need it.
And also, yeah, communication is, sadly, an important part of education and outreach. It’s how the bigoted and the merely privileged get educated about the real life experiences of marginalized group members.
But, it’s actually a favor that the marginalized group members are doing for the ignorant of the world, not our actual literal jobs. We’re allowed to burn out on that endless cycle of withstanding endless reiterations of the same “argument” to speak on behalf of our humanity and we’re allowed to check out and that doesn’t mean we’re “scared of opinions”.
It means that we’re not literally enslaved to this cycle and we get to be just human beings sometimes without engaging with some bad faith a-hole with a stick up their butt about how super ultra mega special their hackneyed opinion is.
A hackneyed opinion I note that they’ve neglected to share on behalf of the “conversation” because he knows it’s bigoted, tired, and will get him cannon-tossed out of here.
You might have a point if the subject of disagreement was, say, knitting or jam-making or beekeeping. Those are topics where differing points of view are useful, because you may learn something you didn’t know! But when the topic is whether or not lgbt people are deserving of respect and compassion, well, there’s only one right answer. And we don’t need a whole bunch of people being wrong at us, that’s silly.
Or if there was an actual shortage of places you could go to find harsh opinions about LGB & especially T issues. There is value in engaging with even bigoted assholes. They have to learn somehow. But the value isn’t unlimited and that place doesn’t have to be here.
There are plenty of places for that to happen. It’s still, sadly, a very mainstream opinion.
Yeah, seriously. Like, I know the dominant group members of the world have it in their heads that their special snowflake of an opinion will be the first time a marginalized group member will ever hear such a cogent and nuanced “opinion”, but, well… no. No, it’s not.
If you grow up marginalized in society, you’ve heard every bigoted “argument” a million and a half times to the point where you could recite them in your sleep. Those opinions that feel so fresh and so unique to the little bigot holding them has been something we’ve engaged with so long we could practically set up an auto-answer for them.
And that’s exhausting to engage with. Because at the center of it all is an unspoken assumption that it is on the marginalized person to defend their humanity. That they must engage with the ignorant, because to do otherwise is to cede that they are not a human. And that’s all manner of garbage.
So yeah, sorry Darth Bumpkin, you and your opinions just ain’t all that special and we don’t really need to hear them. We’ve already dealt with that shit and gotten the free shirt ages ago.
While I partially agree with you (On the “comments shouldn’t be disabled just because of contradictory opinions” matter), you have to realize that this topic brings out the worst people sometimes. Back when I moderated a political discussion board, it never failed that the gender/race issues threads would be the one with the trolls making personal attacks and blatantly not caring about the forum rules. Even people you’d see calmly discussing other topics would go over the line sometimes in those threads. I only assume that would be the same here.
Now add to this the fact that only one person moderates these comments, and has otherwise been occupied with family matters lately. If this was a thread on that forum, it’d be one that pretty much needed a mod to check on it every 10 minutes, if not more. It’s completely reasonable to expect the trolls to come out in force in this situation. In that case, it’s perfectly reasonable to disable the comments. Hell, I know there’s times when I wanted to do that in the past.
Oh hey, another person quoting what is ultimately Noted Dead White Man John Stuart Mills’ opinion on ‘dissent’. Yeah, the whole theory can fuck itself. Even if, in principle, there was value in listening to someone say people aren’t human, you don’t gotta worry about it, YOU’LL KNOW. You’ll know this is a thing people say, still. I mean, there isn’t anything of value in that, and it’s pretty much 90% of what people ultimately have to say about trans people, but also, you’ll already know. But really, there isn’t any ACTUAL value in this.
Not that it matters to Willis turning off the comments. I don’t think it hurts him too much to see this shit, but it sure as hell hurts a good chunk of his readership.
Bigots trying to re-frame bigotry as “contrary opinions” aren’t as subtle or as slick as they think they are.
You’re pretending not to know anything about the discussion–congratulations, you have demonstrated that your “contrary opinions” would be of no value, even if that’s what you were actually presenting.
If it’s just a contrary opinion, then it deserves equal time and “fair” treatment where we all decide at the end of the day that the issue is “controversial” and the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.
Oh, Bob in Himmel, has there been anything so poisonous to political discourse than the fetishization of the moderate and the viewpoint that there’s always two equal sides to every “debate”.
Like, no, sometimes there is no “other side” and propping it up as equal does real harm (see climate change denialists treated as equal to scientists).
Things like the humanity of trans people are one of those instances.
It’s particularly insidious from an intellectual point of view because it makes staking out the most extreme ground the best tactic, since that just moves the middle farther towards your side.
Which is what bigot groups have been doing for a long while now. Oh, you say you’re human beings who would like human rights everyone else takes for granted? Well, we say that you are literally Satan and will devour our brains with your laser-eyes, so the truth is clearly in the middle where your whole existence is “controversial” and “political”.
RationalWiki has a good entry on the Balance fallacy, particularly as propagated by media outlets. The assumption that all positions on an issue deserve “equal time,” even if some of those positions are hatemongering, completely without factual basis, or both, has poisoned public discourse.
Willis closed the comments because 1) he feared (not without good reason) that assholes would say horrible things about trans people, and 2) he doesn’t have time to constantly moderate the comments, what with being a father of infant twins.
Unless you think that trans people have something valuable to learn from reading the same insulting, de-humanizing bullshit they’ve already seen and heard countless times, you should just drop this.
Well, you should drop it either way, but you’d hopefully feel better doing so if you understand why you should.
Man, I thought Walky and Dorothy had arranged a booty call and Walky was wondering how Joyce knew about it. Good thing I read the comments. I’m sleepy.
I know it’s rude to ask real trans people this, but Carla is fictional so the question might be okay (like it’s to find out more about her rather than morbid curiosity about the personal life of a stranger)
Has Carla had surgery? Is she taking hormones or androgen blockers?
Given that this is Indiana, I think the administration wouldn’t allow her in the girl’s dorm unless she had the gender reaffirmation surgery, since some of the proposed “bathroom laws” have the same stipulation and in states that do allow trans people to change their driver’s licences usually have a similar rule even outside of the USA.
If she has, I’m so curious as to how she paid for it; especially since the USA is notorious for making all surgeries needlessly expensive.
She’s a college student… maybe her parents are really supportive?
It’s never been so much as hinted at, yes or no, in-comic or out. The point being… well, that it’s beside the point. (I get that you’re asking from the wiki article perspective.)
Also, Bloomington apparently has a non-discrimination policy that includes gender identity, so it’s probably more willing to follow actually decent protocol for treatment of trans people rather than holding up the bullshit gatekeeping of things like bottom surgery.
I’d imagine she’s probably on at least blockers and has been for a bit, and I imagine probably HRT, simply because that tends to be important to a number of people’s personal transition pathway.
Beyond that, we’ll know if it ever becomes relevant to the plot, but otherwise, it’s not really that relevant to her life experiences in comic and it’s kinda none of our business.
Oh, I can see her HRT status being very relevant to the plot – After all, what would be a better way to unmask an interloper (in Mary’s eyes) than to take away what lets that interloper hide?
I can see that as a possibility and I actually felt a wave of coldness and fear at the very thought of it. My meds are my lifeline and the thought of someone maliciously taking them is all sorts of bad though that would not at all be outside Mary’s character.
I would imagine Carla is very careful with whatever meds she might be taking. The last thing you want, even without someone like Mary around, is someone seeing them and thinking they might be something that can get you high.
Yeah, but if Mary knows any amount about it she’d try and find a way to look, or even if she broke in and searched Carla’s room as part of a harassment campaign, she might find the meds and take them not knowing what they were. And it’s not like, from her view, Ruth can stop her.
I kind of hope Mary gets caught doing something like that because stealing medication is like ten kinds of illegal. It would get her expelled and possibly arrested.
That would be unbelievably stupid of Mary since the only thing stopping Carla from doing something about this situation is that she doesn’t want Mary to broadcast the fact she’s transgender to everyone, and Ruth would be forced to do something about a student having their medicine stolen. Keeping to blackmail and verbal harassment makes it a lot harder to touch her.
It’s rude to inquire about anyone’s genitals, unless they bring it up, Carla has not mentioned them in comic, so I guess Willis doesn’t wanna talk about it
I think that last sentence is a silly assumption to make; Carla being trans only came up explicitly the day before yesterday. To assume every single aspect of her experience would’ve been mentioned by now if it was ever gonna be is weird.
But that said, people’s genitals are yeah a rude thing to ask about just because you’re curious. :\ And doing it to a fictional character under the pretense that it’ll be safe to sate that curiosity *because she’s fictional* ignores how much your question is going to remind trans readers of every time they’ve been accosted for the sake of exactly that same “curiosity”, at its most benign.
Also, why isn’t this a private message to Willis? He’s the only one who would know, and asking him privately would at least spare trans readers. :\
I don’t think I can be rude to Carla because she’s not real, I’m sorry if I was rude to you or any other person who gets rude personal questions from strangers.
Personally I saw it as a relevant question in the way that people discuss mentally illness and suggest therapy/medications in the comics about Amber and Ruth. It would be rude to talk a real mentally ill person that way, but Ruth and Amber are fictional and they can’t see the discussion threads dissecting their personal lives.
As for messaging Willis directly… is that possible from this website? Could you tell me how? If it can only be done from tumblr, I’m not going to make a tumblr just to ask him questions and he would probably delete my question anyway because nothing screams troll like empty blog made the same day.
I only ask because Carla is fictional, I’d never ask a real trans person unless they brought up the subject first in conversation.
But Carla is fictional, and this is a comic where we know quite a few personal things about the fictional characters’ sex lives, how they lost their virginity, their hidden (closeted) sexuality es and their mental illnesses that they reveal to no one else. If these people were real it would be rude of us to know and ask for these details as well.
There are quite a few states with large populations that allow for document updates (birth certificate, DL) without surgeries.
To get my driver’s license updated, all I had to do was bring in a letter from my therapist (for the gender) and an official copy of the name change court order.
To correct my birth certificate (which provides a new certificate, not a “modified” one), all I needed was the court order and another court order to correct the gender. To get the court order, all I needed was a doctor’s note stating that I had completed my transition – and the rules to get that letter don’t include surgery requirements.
Which is good, since I likely will never be able to have bottom surgery – I have a completely separate issue that (in the eyes of at least 5 surgeons now) makes the risks “too high”.
I’ve been loving this storyline. Well, not loving, but.. well, I’d been thinking just the day before Mary “went there” that I was surprised she HADN’T gone there, given how conservative and evil she’s been shown to be. Even non-evil conservatives will go there.
Wow that’s really cool! I’m happy you were not required to meet an arbitrary standard in your state to be able to change your documents 🙂
I had a friend from Sweden, a supposedly progressive country complain that they have to get bottom surgery and consent to get sterilized before the government will allow any trans person to change their gender in their documentation, which is I think is awful and discriminatory. I’m not overly familiar with USA laws (and I know they vary according to state) but since Indiana is not famous for being progressive, I’d assume they have more stupid arbitrary standards and hoops a person must jump through to change their official documents.
Yeah, Indiana is not particularly progressive in that regard. There’s now a Kochsucker in the state legislature that is trying to get the Alabama law regarding public bathrooms passed into law here. I’ve already started to set some money aside for the legal defense for the time that my son gets arrested for using the “wrong” bathroom, since I know it is coming.
Incidentally, US passports currently allow gender changes with only doctor’s notes as well. There are two different styles of notes; one is temporary (2 year passport) while the other is permanent (10 year passport). So it’s possible in the US to get a passport that doesn’t match your birth certificate or driver’s license. I know one person (in the deep south) who uses her passport as her ID rather than her driver’s license (excepting when driving is involved, of course), simply because it’s the only document she can get that reflects her actual gender.
(That’s likely to change the next time a Republican takes the White House – it’s an Executive branch decision, not a law.)
I’m Ukrainian and it’s always so weird to me when people from US refer to their driver’s license as their main identifying document rather than the passport.
Like… is literally everyone obligated to learn to drive??? Does literally everyone have a driver’s license??? How is it not an optional thing that the majority of population (that can’t afford a car, or only has one in the family and another person already has the license) doesn’t have???
The Driver’s license is so standard that IIRC the DMV is in charge of giving out State IDs (which are what you use if you don’t drive, in all probability)
A) It’s ma’am, thank you very much.
B) She is awesome, yes, and I never said she was ‘normal’ as there is no such thing. I said she was ordinary in the sense of not being a sentient car.
I mean, any sapient creature can choose to abide by human gender roles, it’s just not something we need to really deal with RL. Transformers sure as fuck do, as do many fictional species.
Third panel made me think Joyce was subtly implying she knows how they spend their “study time together” (banging), given the weird emphasis on some words.
Also, I’m trying to think of what Ruthless could have/should have done. In the situation she’s put herself in, the most good she can possibly accomplish is to get one person a light reprimand for making a transphobic comment. The cost of accomplishing that reprimand would be a) her job, and b) Becky’s living situation.
It can be argued that she shouldn’t be concerned with a), especially since her job is only in jeopardy through her own choices. That ignores the fact that her choices are being made under the weight of suicidal depression, but okay. However, b) is kind of a problem. Becky’s living situation is all kinds of against the rules, and definitely not sustainable, but also her dad just came after her with a gun yesterday (today? can’t keep track). This poor kid is still in the process of being deprogrammed. Illegally crashing in your friend’s friend’s dorm room isn’t a permanent solution, but I think it’s probably better in the short term than any of the other options.
Carla has every right to be angry and disgusted, but there’s nothing I can think of that Ruth could do for her that wouldn’t make everything worse.
Well first thing’s first she could have at the very least extricated Carla from that situation instead of just leaving her there alone with Mary. Like not only did she figuratively abandon her she did so literally too.
Come to think of it, I hope that she learns what trans is in front of somebody patient, who is in a headspace to absorb Joyce blurting out something utterly graceless. Not Carla, in particular, who will be reminded of lots of BS, and who won’t(/shouldn’t have to be) patient about hearing it yet again. Dorothy would be ideal, but I think we’re all hoping it’ll be with Jocelyn.
I could be totally making this up or misremembering which character, but didn’t Joyce encounter the possibility of being into more than one gender and go “Oh, that’s silly?”
I think so – IIRC she had that conversation with Becky (who’s had the same reaction)? Billie told Becky she was bi, and so did Sierra; but Sierra was in church at the time so Joyce may or may not have heard too. Sorry, can’t hunt for references right now!
I don’t remember that with Joyce, but it’s come up with a couple people in the strip. Becky, as SDGlyph said. Also very similar when Danny talked to Dorothy about it.
The first time I remember Joyce hearing about anything like bi was talking to Billie and getting the “everyone tries it” bit.
I can see Joyce saying exactly — in perfect, oblivious innocence, of course.
As I noted further up the page, though, I’m anticipating drama re Jocelyne during Joyce’s family visit. She’s in preview panels (with ?John? in the car, presumably still as “Joshua”) and it just seems too perfectly set up to not be coming.
It’s a good thing Joyce didn’t run into them. She is still not even willing to talk about what happened at the party so Mary probably has a few choice words up her sleeve if Joyce ever challenges her.
I’ve not read through this yet, but seen the last few days, and… I know you said no-one was dying in DoA, but can you make an exception for Mary? Please? I’ve had to deal with too many people like her and know I will have to deal with too many more in the future.
I’m not sure about it in the case of skating wheels, but a quick wash in nail polish-remover will get rid of glue on most things, but it could also melt and soften the wheels themselves since they’re made of plastic.
Once, I tried to use acetone nail polish remover to get the writing off a plastic vial, to use it for a costume. It very rudely started melting instead. Also: don’t try to put acetone in a styrofoam container. Or try to use latex gloves to protect your hands from it. Yeah…acetone is kinda nasty.
She’d have to re-grease the bearings too. Better to just replace them and keep the wheels, but you’re still talking $10-$100 depending on quality. A fortune by college standards.
Carla, you can like…move your legs and walk.
If this happened in my dorm back in college, about the point at which Carla started stomping endlessly outside Mary’s door about a dozen people would’ve stuck their head out their doors and started yelling at her to knock it off. While someone comes up the stairs from downstairs too. Basically, everyone’d be mad at her. I’m not feeling this totally nonexistent reaction by everybody else, really.
I don’t know, I feel like outside of Mary, most the dorm is pretty chill about things. Someone being noisy on a Friday mid afternoon isn’t that big of a deal anyway. I could see Sarah getting mad, but she might not be around at the moment. Joyce has been pretty distant about things all day, and Dorothy is more concerned about Joyce than Carla being Carla.
I’ll be honest, if I was just a random dorm resident who didn’t know anything about Carla and Mary’s fighting, I would be pissed.
Actually, I’d be pissed either way. I’d obviously be MORE pissed at Mary, but that continuous Thump Thump Thumping could potentially drive me to murder. (Or running to the library and staying there until she’s stopped, if you want to be reasonable about it.)
When I first started college, the STOMP STOMP STOMP would’ve been enough to drive me to the library, but having now spent a year living next to one of the main entrances and only staircases for my building with …..voluble… suitemates as my only neighbors, well… I’ve grown a thicker skin.
This outcome was the natural result of Ruth’s management style; rule by fear only works when you’re the scariest thing present – if they can scare you more, they own you.
My regret in this situation is her shittiness is being used to hurt Carla. Nothing else.
The outcome was caused by shock, partly because she now knows that Becky (the “perverted vagrant”) is there, and her relationship with Billie is out in the open. If she had faced down Mary, then she could have carried on for a while longer.
Still, Ruth would have had to face up to the contradictions of her situation sooner or later. This way, we have the added bonus of Mary looking a right arsehole into the bargain.
It will be interesting to see how Ruth deals with her situation with Billie ad Becky’s situation. I hope Ruth realises it’s a matter of time before someone else groks to the situation, and I’m pretty sure Mary won’t keep her mouth shut.
I… kind of feel that it would’ve been less painful if Ruth had just… not cared. But she did. And yet… the victim-blaming. “You should know better.” The non-apology. “You have to understand.”
Mary makes me furious. And in a way, that feels good. It’s an outlet for my anger at the kind of shit she and others like her make people go through.
But Ruth… she was going to do the right thing. She started doing the right thing. And then she freaked out and ran away. And she’s ashamed of it. And I’m still angry, but I don’t have an outlet for it.
But THANK GOD (by which I mean Willis), it was finally explicitly stated in the comic that Carla is trans! Maybe now people will stop being confused about it. (Wishful thinking…)
Ruth did care, but was faced with the choice to give up or have her life as she knows it ruined. She could see Ruth was just trying to save face after essentially running away to lick her wounds.
I’m not entirely sure. Carla’s point about how she was Ruth’s “acceptable losses” made me think that she just figured she was brushed aside by Ruth the same way she almost certainly has before by authority figures who were meant to protect her.
Well, yeah. That’s what Carla thinks. But we know why Ruth backed down, and that wasn’t it. And she tried to give Carla a consolation prize by letting her attack Mary with no consequences.
I do not think Ruth thinks Carla is an acceptable loss. In fact, I agree with the prediction that we’ll next see her at the bottom of a bottle over letting her down.
And it’s actually progress for Ruth. She felt something other than anger and self pity. She feels bad for someone else. Too bad she’s ill equipped to do anything about it due to her depression.
I know that the actual reason is because Ruth is being blackmailed, but to Carla it’s just another example of transphobia directed at her being mitigated. At the least it’s a good sign that Ruth realizes she’s fucked up.
And like, it’s still technically true. Carla is in this situation now because Ruth hasn’t been doing her job. Ruth’s failures end up costing Carla a place where she doesn’t get misgendered by raging assholes.
So that first panel is telling us that the non-evil characters don’t perceive Carla as horrible. She stomps by and then relative quiet returns. Nobody thinks it a big deal. Dorms are like that.
As someone who appreciates that sometimes violence does, in fact, solve problems I’m hoping Amber hears what happened and Amazi-girl decides to seek vengeance on Carlas behalf
When I first started reading this comic I thought it was dramedy-type slice of college life which, as someone not from the USA, is always interesting to me
But of the last year or so its certainly changed its focus and I’m learning quite a bit more then I ever knew (or thought of) and I confess a lot of it still goes over my head (I’m not 100% certain that I’m cis or if I just don’t quite get what it means)
But its all good because learning broadens the horizons so keep up the good work Mr Willis
Huh. In the preview panel for tomorrow, Walky looks legitimately angry. To my knowledge, he’s only ever been truly angry two or three other times in the comic.
I like seeing characters who aren’t usually mad get mad. It adds some interesting depth.
So, this is probably out of line, but seeing as how all comment sections of the Carla/Mary stand off have been closed, and this comic does include Carla, the revelation that she is trans in this continuity puts the whole interaction into a different light for me, especially the going to the boys side where you belong statement from Mary. I don’t know if it came up earlier, but I honestly didn’t understand why Ruth was so pissed about that statement, or why Carla was shocked, but now I understand.
Also, Walky is going to flunk out unless he gets his shit together. You can only coast so high on natural test-taking ability.
Late as hell but rereading the archives, I stumbled across one more insight as to just why Carla’s mention of acceptable losses would hit Ruth extra hard.
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I’m starting to feel like Walky went to one of those schools where everyone is special
There is a reference here….
you may not know it. but im trying to find it.
Got it. I’ll reference this with ANT farm. Walky is Fletcher.
Or Lost At Sea? “Ok fine, I wasn’t a gifted kid. Are you satisfied now?”
Something like Hogwarts?
Nah, just a normal slacker who’s never really had to work to get a passing grade.
It’s less that he didn’t have to work to get a PASSING grade, it’s that he didn’t have to work to get STRAIGHT As. Now he does have to work for it, and he’s freaking him out. I had a similar issue after skipping two grades in math, when I was younger. I wound up stalling out and barely finishing high school on time. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen with Walky.
His room is full of participation trophies.
I don’t get that feeling. Walky is genuinely intelligent, it’s just that he doesn’t know how to apply himself when he falls short.
He’s in the opposite case of Sal, who had difficulty grasping the work at first, but gradually improved, sought out tutoring, tried new ways to approach her problems, and was ultimately rewarded for her efforts.
This. I was basically Walky in college, except I never caught on that the trick was to throw toys at girls’ heads.
Yeah, he strikes me as an individual who has never had to study before now. He was able to always do work in his head or memorize stuff and had teachers who were good to go over the main points and is solid on standardized tests.
But he never learned how to do independent studying, handle a terrible teacher, or how to take notes and do things long form in homework instead of trying to skip ahead.
I run into this sort of student all the time, usually around a similar level to where Walky is now. The material from an algebra2 to a pre-calc or a calculus is often a major step up and starts being difficult to keep all in your head. Especially with the early material which is often about laying down the theory of derivatives and integrals you’ll be working with for the rest of the year.
For someone like Walky who has so much pride wrapped up in classes being “easy”, he’s going to have an even rougher road to needing to write things down and take careful notes because in his head, that’s what “bad students” do.
Yeah what Cerberus says. I was the kid who never had to study – straight 95%+ average across all my courses, just from doing my homework. First year in uni I was fine because I was a nerd and had self-taught most of the material already. Second-year I got ridiculously over-confident and had the bright idea to take 8 courses and 3 labs while working part-time and doing three extra-curricular activities. Like I said, ridiculously over-confident. I didn’t flunk anything, but my CGPA went from 4.3 to 3.4 in one semester. It was kind of a train wreck.
Thankfully, I learned how to study after that and was able to graduate with honors but it was a huge blow to my self-image as the Smart Kid to whom everything was “easy” and who could loaf off in class while making straight As.
Similar for me, except I never did learn to study. (Partially because I wasn’t just unpracticed at it, I’d gotten stuck with a teacher who punished me for getting ahead, so…)
Yeah, I got a teacher like that, too. But I’ve got a really heavy dose of contrarian rules-lawyer brat in me that the teacher didn’t stamp out, so it didn’t stop me from trying to get more ahead. It’s a personality thing, though, and there’s a reason I spent most of 3rd grade in the in-school suspension room, and it wasn’t just because the teacher was an incompetent bully. She was, but I was also kind of like Carla in that I’m the sort of person who will tend to dig in my heels and be an ass for the sake of being an ass if I’m dealing with a jerk, especially if the jerk doesn’t have the power to do harm to me that I’m not willing to put up with.
I was never exactly the guy who loafed off and still got straight A’s, but I did always have the feeling that maths came easily (it still does actually – I’m currently strolling through a professional accounting qualification), but what undid me was when I got to university and did well in the first 2 years.
I didn’t get cocky and start being lazy, but I did get cocky and started taking classes that were WAY out of my league. Like Quantum Mechanics (I & II), Spacetime Geometry and General Relativity, Special Relativity & Electromagnetism…the other 4 courses were more at my level and I passed them, but those 4 courses I named above…it was a total train wreck, and nearly caused me to entirely fail my 3rd year (and by extension, my maths degree).
Luckily I scraped through and got my degree, little use though it has done me since. 😛
“Second-year I got ridiculously over-confident and had the bright idea to take 8 courses and 3 labs while working part-time and doing three extra-curricular activities.”
…jfc are you me?
Nope, probably a kindred spirit, though?
I was weird. I started out at a school that encouraged studying and working your hardest, then moved to a school where everyone half-assed it, skipped a grade because of said half-assing, switched schools twice before graduating high school, went to college and learned what I was interested in and half-assed what I wasn’t, got a D in Statistics and freaked out and literally quit school for a year to figure out why I’d done that. because…figuring out my shit while I went to college wasn’t an option, apparently? idk. my brain.
TURNS OUT I have ADHD! so, like. good study habits do a lot to combat that.
I don’t, but I do have executive function issues because of my autism that can be similar to ADHD in that if I’m off routine, everything goes to hell and I forget all of the things.
(erm, leeeet’s just say that on more than one occasion I’ve gotten to the store with a cart full of groceries… and no wallet)
I also think he does not really pay attention in class, if he is doodling the TA beig eaten by a dinosaur he is not paying attention.
In high school, I used to sleep or play Tetris on my calculator for most of my classes. Some of the teachers reacted by trying to catch me off guard, but whenever they’d wake me up and try to startle me with a question, I had the answer, because I had been listening the whole time. I was the same in grade school, too, doodling or fiddling with something constantly, and getting As on every test. I never studied or did homework, only the most extreme stuff like papers, which I’d write the night before they were due, and still get good grades. The difference is, I never hit a wall, I kept doing this and succeeding at it all through college. I have a degree and a career. One time in college, I wrote a research paper the day it was due, in another class a couple hours before it was due. I got a B on the paper and As in both classes.
I figured there’d be people like this. I really envy you, though in a way learning how to work hard for something is rewarding too. I hope you find some other place where you could learn that?
I hit my first wall in secondary school, had to start doing homework, and study a bit for tests. I thought that was my wall and that had learnt to work for my good grades. I had to work harder when I started at uni, but it was fun, so whatever. Then I had to work harder again when I started my Master’s, and it started to get less fun to have so little free time left. Then I hit my second wall: academic writing. Writing my Master’s thesis has been another painful experience, but looking back at what I’ve accomplished is very rewarding.
I’ve gotten plenty of envy over that talent, but I have my own struggles too, so don’t feel too bad about it – from the sound of it you’re doing just fine.
My main shortcoming is in dealing with people. I have pretty significant social anxiety and I’ve never managed to ask anyone out. Even if I did, I don’t know how I could possibly entertain someone one-on-one through a date anyway. I have a really hard time calling anyone, to the point where I tend to just let friendships die when circumstance doesn’t put me together with people anymore. I was seriously depressed in high school, and that was a major factor. Fortunately I managed to pull through that, accept my flaws, and find other things in life that I could enjoy.
In my sophomore math class, I literally spent most of my class time either playing solitaire at my desk or doodling on my backpack with sharpies. But I did well on tests so the teacher didn’t care.
omg I’m Carla 😀
Great calves, Kiapdx!
And a really good Tigger-like bounce, and you know what they say about Tiggers ….
She also seems really tall today, even when taking the bounce into account.
Just checked, she’s always been the tallest person in the room, at least when it was possible to tell.
Same here. No academic wall, even at a top college — lots of procrastination and writing the paper at the deadline, which stressed people out, but it ultimately worked every time. I can do papers. The wall happened in my mid-20s, when depression hit me in the face and I couldn’t do anything anymore, not even the dishes. Now everything is terrifying. I’m working on it.
Similar, I never hit a big wall academically compared to what I normally did throughout school. I wasn’t a straight A student until my college time and such, where I actually had the mentality ‘C’ or higher, doesn’t matter. Wrote a man a paper on the night before or same day.
Most extreme for me would be writing a 1-2 page paper on a subject I didn’t take in school at all for someone else on the same day it was due…. In under an hour. Wasn’t my best work, but I learned in one class a few years back I can take a subject and just swing out stuff for it.
I passed English 2(mostly read and discuss stories, only a couple writing assignments on context and such) without actually reading any of the stories assigned. I just listened to the first 2-3 minutes of the students discussing it, latched onto something, and basically became a ‘Bard.’
I also always spents lots of time in class doodling and writing down song lyrics (that worked super well in getting my handwriting from barely legible to actually pretty awesome). Most of the time, it worked like that – I paid just enough attention to follow what everyone was doing and take notes from time to time.
(It helped that in most classes teachers DICTATED notes to class, and I usually already had them written from the explanation on my own)
Sometimes, though, I’d hit a class where I actually DID have to look at the blackboard/listen to teacher/take notes ALL THE TIME to keep myself oriented. I still managed to fill my notes with doodles though XD
I took special pride in being able to wake up when the teacher called on me, glance up at the board, think for about 5 seconds, then provide them with the answer before going back to sleep. It particularly pissed off my physics teacher…
Drawing takes a fairly different brain areas then listening/comprehension.
Some people just like stuff to do with their hands.
Of course that doesn’t mean Walky specifically is paying attention – merely that some people draw “on automatic”.
Some people (especially people with ADHD, I believe) learn and listen much better when they’re doing multiple things at the same time, especially things like doodling and drawing. I drew on my papers and in sketchbooks or notebooks all the time in school and a lot of early teachers seemed to think the same as what you’re saying here, but it’s really quite the opposite. Of course, now I’m in college for illustration and it’s encouraged. <_<
Where were all you guys when I hit second year and needed to learn this studying stuff?
Playing in the circus. Try that, it won’t help you study but it’s fun.
An education ‘system’ that let’s so many bright kids ‘coast’ till they hit The Wall … and then still leaves them pretty much on their own to rehab themselves … Am I the only one who thinks that there is more wrong with a System that squanders so much human potential than the kids that it fails? HS was so trivial for me that I graduated a year early (bc there was a girl a year ahead of me), and still won the prize for best history student, then hit my wall in freshman calculus. I did greagreat first quarter, but Spring quarter I was going to fail. During Study Days I calculated how many points I needed on the final to pass the course; which sections would be the easiest to get those points on; studied those and ignored the rest of the course. It worked, but what a bloody waste. I’m FINALLY getting the remediation I’ve needed for ever: meds to ease the path, regular therapy/coaching to take advantage of what the meds are doing for me. According to my therapist I’m not stupid or lazy, I’m inefficient except when I go into crisis mode and am easily distracted from my commitments and then hyper focus on other things. So, yeah, ‘Attention/Focus Disorder’ (not to mention The Big A — nxiety).
IF YOU RECOGNIZE YOURSELF in the many posts here and are unhappy about it, PLEASE explore the possibilities of why and what you can do, the sooner the better but it’s NEVER too late. And don’t let Them fluff you off: my current therapist (my 5th after 4 non-keepers), tried to tell me I was ‘fixed’ and to push me out the door when all he’d done was stabilize my most recent existential crises. I refused to go and since then we’ve gotten onto the longterm work. (Tho I’m priviledged in having a spouse with good insurance and I regret that I don’t know what to adviSE those who dont. If you are in uni, try whatever psy-services your school has.)
I was one of those students, but I hit this roadblock in middle school. A much, ah, safer time. I recovered by high school and uni.
(At one point my classmate said about me that I started school with knowledge on fifth grade level – and that’s where it stayed, even as I actually reached and passed fifth grade. I’m pretty sure I learned SOMETHING between first and sixth grade, but yeah astute observation)
I remember getting a rapid increase in studyload in uni… yeah, Walky’s got an inopportune time to run out of effortless study buffer.
Oh my God, somebody who understands! Six years later I’m still dealing with the effects of the world-shattering experience of realizing that I’m not some kind of genius prodigy. I was basically told I was a genius for my entire life, got B’s on my exams if I didn’t study at all and A’s if I studied 15 minutes or more. Then I went to a very competitive, highly-ranked university and had my spirits crushed. My Walky-style denial actually lasted all the way until sophomore year, when I almost failed organic chemistry. I never did really learn to study particularly well; fortunately, my wife (then my girlfriend) had both an intellect similar to mine and a ferocious work ethic, so she helped tutor me. Without her, I really might have had to change my major or go on the 5-year program.
Well you actually have to be above average intelligence to go to a Learning Disabilities school, I was actually in one for Grade 7, and 8… it was hell.
Yeah, Walky is so me when I first got to university… though my time was complicated by also developing narcolepsy.
Now, that’s a disorder you hardly ever see in mainstream fiction (esp TV/film) without it being comic relief.
What, Walky’s an X-man?
Some kind of unlimited eating power, most like.
Well there was that one time he became Robot God.
Or like the time he discovered he had the power to miss class?
Ability to sense the best deal on chicken nuggets in the immediate township.
That X-plains his metabolism.
Well he isn’t freaking out about any of his other classes, which would imply he really is smart.
This happens to a lot of people who are genuinely smart. They’re smart enough not to have to put in any effort, so by the time they get to an appropriate level they don’t know how to try hard.
Or to try at all, really.
When you didn’t have to study all your life, starting at 18 or so is HARD.
Story of my life. Spend all of high school cruising on paying attention and not studying makes it hard to learn to study.
Not really. I was like this when I first went to college- everything up to that point was easy to me (with the exception of math), so I didn’t really have any sort of work ethic or study skills. And then I got into my first non-intro course and got my ass handed to me, because for the first time I couldn’t just suck up the material and spit it out on the paper and get an A.
Granted, a big part of this is that college tends to deal a lot more with abstractions than high school does. For example, in high school, you can get away with just being able to pick out themes and setting elements from a Literature assignment, but on a college level, you have to be able to understand subtext and metatext and context and all other sorts of text that aren’t necessarily just the words printed on the page. In History, you don’t just learn about what happened, you now have to be able to figure out why it happened. In Physics, you don’t just learn Newton’s Three Laws, you also start to learn about the theories of LaPlace and Faraday and Einstein and actually have to find out what E=MC^2 actually means.
And Walky is just not prepared for that kind of intensive thinking. Not yet.
1. JOKE
2. he insists someone who is handed his paper is somehow performing sorcery by divining its contents
= “special”
Well, yes, you were either referring to a Lake Woebegone situation (“where all of the children are above average”), or Hogwarts, and Walky doesn’t strike me as a Gryffindor.
Dorothy’s a Slytherin.
On one hand ambition is one of her defining character traits.
On the other hand, she doesn’t seem to have a diet of solely puppies and kittens.
That we have seen.
Well she did skip a lot of lunches with Joyce at first……
She probably eats a lot of vegetables, too. She’s super-responsible!
She’s her own mother twice over so there’s that.
Having read this explanation only after replying, I need going to consider not reading the comments section at traffic lights just because “oh shit, it’s already 12:00.”
1. Why are you reading at traffic lights?!?!?!
2. (kinda wish I could do that–my car (and everyone else’s) is buried under two feet of snow at the moment)
2a. ((I guess I can still do that but on foot, which isn’t the same))
I’m not even going try to explain why, because I know that shit is indefensible.
Walky’s trying to use comedy to deflect an uncomfortable conversation again. Academic cruise control has gotten him this far, but it’s never going to teach him how to study.
He has to learn to swallow his pride and ask for help if he wants to pass this semester.
Or, you know, go on the internet for two minutes to find out what other people in his situation have done. But that’s less humiliating, so of course some of us readers wouldn’t want that. (Also maybe harder to make into a good story.)
I had the opposite problem. In lower level schooling, a lot of stuff is more or less “basic” or can be worked out from first principles. Being smart and knowing how the system worked let me eliminate 70% of the workload, making me work less than 30% compared to other students.
Later on, when actual study, and practise (for math) was involved… not to mention living away from home and not having someone monitor my studying… well, it all went to heck in a handbasket.
It’s because at lower levels, education is “stuff that everyone should know”, to some extent. So, if you’re intelligent and watch tv or otherwise know as much about the world as the average adult, you don’t have to study that much. … in uni/college, you get taught stuff that is pretty specific, that most people would not have a clue about unless they were specifically given a lecture or read a book or something, it’s not the sort of “general knowledge”
Oh yeah, and my attendance for classes and lectures was terrible too. … In that sense, I’m worse than Walky, since he expects to learn enough from (sleeping in?) lectures and classes to get by, whereas for some stupid reason, I thought that I would learn stuff while sleeping IN MY BED. … in that sense, in hindsight, I was the biggest idiot of them all!
So yeah… thinking you’re a genius who can do anything, and succeeding? You’re a genius. Thinking you’re a genius, but failing? You’re actually a moron, who thinks he’s a genius.
To paraphrase Teddy (Mickey Rourke) in “Body Heat”:
There are 50 ways that you can screw the pooch. If you think of 50 of them, you’re a genius. And you ain’t no genius.
Oops. Its, if you can think of 25 of the 50 you’re a genius
He struggles with one class and someone has to think he sucks at school altogether. If anything, he’s terrible at preparing himself for the scenario in which he actually has to put in work.
No, Walky is actually REALLY typical of smart kids when they hit higher education. I never had to really try to learn new material, all the way through high school, and when I got to college, I had no idea at all how to study. I’d basically never needed to study beyond reading the relevant section in the textbook, and maybe a few practice questions for math.
Walky probably hasn’t ever had to really try in school before. Now that he’s hit something he can’t immediately grasp, he can’t reconcile that with his view of himself.
last night’s closed comments probably killed you ana/jen
Calculus is the point at which I too first had trouble breezing through classes, but for me the timing was my senior year in hig school rather than as a freshman in university. Alas, it coincided with the breaking of my giveadamn, so I was not motivated to care about it or fix it by studying. I am not sure whether it has ever mended, either, and it has been nearly 30 years at this point.
Well, his mother is strong, and I guess his father could be considered good looking…
I just want to say, in regards to yesterday’s comic: TITLE DROP!
I should ve figured out. I nearly used that exact same phrase in the comments to some dickwad
Actually, that was the second time we’ve seen that phrase (“acceptable losses”) used.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/homewrecker/
… Er? The title drop is ‘that perfect girl’…
The number of characters the title can plausibly refer to keeps growing :0
Also, just wanted to say: congrats @ Willis, it’s really impossible to confuse Ruth with Carla, even when they have the same hairstyle on top of generally same-ish hair color. That’s pretty cool!
Well now we know why Walky’s mad tomorrow.
Because he’s not a wizard and can’t conjure nachitos?
Wait’ll he realizes he also can’t conjure chicken nuggets.
It’s his time of the month, better give him some caramel.
Wouldn’t that count as cannibalism ? (since he’s basically made of caramel, or so says dorothy)
Maybe but cannibalism is a valid lifestyle choice you know.
soon Walky will discover his caramel based superpowers, like he can melt and reform his body and shit.
He also has the power to get stuck on fuckin everything
That last one might not be a superpower so much as a side effect of too much Taco Bell, though.
XD “and shit”
You reminded me of that one episode of The Grim Adventures of Billy And Mandy where Billy ate too many magic chocolates and ended up turning into chocolate and eating himself.
That show was my justification for considering “Round and Round” a Christmas song.
I’m so disappointed in Ruth.
Ruth kind of sucks.
That’s why I’m so disappointed, she is one of my favorites. She’s a bongo but she’s never been a coward.
I would argue using your authority to abuse the students under your care makes you a coward, especially when Ruth believes that she’s allowed to do so because her bosses don’t care enough to do anything about it.
Honestly, I can understand the cowardice. It’s hard to risk yourself like that, especially when you’re used to not having to. Ruth’s never faced direct homophobia targeting her like that before. She’s probably never had a student directly threaten her like this before thanks to her overall climate of fear.
And the thought of losing what she’s currently using to cling to life is a really scary thing. I don’t blame her for valuing what she thinks is safer over what she thinks is right, even though that is very much a privilege she most certainly has over Carla in that scene. And that’s what makes it sting.
I’m kind of happy Ruth didn’t throw everything she had away just to defend Carla. Even though Carla shouldn’t have to deal with transphobic assholes Ruth shouldn’t have to keep losing people that matter to her.
And now she could lose Billie, someone she actually cares about.
Yeah, I get why she did it. If anything it was a reflexive retreat; get away from Mary pulling back the curtain and also try to salvage dignity with Carla.
I’m not exactly overflowing with sympathy for Ruth, okay I’d rather hug a deadly cobraspider, but she panicked, as we do. It’s just that her failures have consequences.
Oh, very much that. Sadly, the worst of those consequences will be falling directly on her head. As some have pointed out already, blackmailers don’t stop at one favor. Mary is going to be frequently visiting to “collect” what she thinks she is owed.
Which I think makes it easier for me at least to forgive her cowardice. That, and the fact that like Carla, I don’t trust authority figures to do a damn for trans people and the fact that she vaguely tried is better than the usual.
Honestly, the fact that she even realizes that she’s fucked up and that she did the wrong thing is already 3 miles above the bar I’ve set for authority figures vis a vis trans people.
It’s an understandable cowardice, totally. Being perfectly honest: I have no idea whether I’d be able to act any differently. I think, in all honesty, for me it would depend on whether my anger outweighed my fear and shame – if I was angry enough that I acted impulsively, I might stand up, but if I don’t hit that critical mass, I’d probably chicken out just like Ruth did. I’d like to think I’d for sure act with integrity, but I don’t know. It’s a lot easier to say you’ll stand up when the time comes than to actually do it. In the past when I’ve been in such situations, for me it depends entirely on whether I get pissed off enough that I don’t think about what I’m doing, I just do.
The above aside, it does not surprise me at all that Ruth, in particular, was the one to back down. IME, the people who posture the biggest tend to be the ones to fold the fastest when they’re called on their posturing. Not all bullies are the sort that are likely to fold, but Ruth (she is a bully) always struck me as the type. Hard to explain why if you’ve never encountered that type, but, I think to me it has to do with how concerned the person is with seeming tough. Ruth is very concerned about seeming so tough that nobody wants to mess with her – which, IME, means that the person has serious doubts about their ability to come out on top if someone does mess with them.
Mary has never had such concern over what others think of her. She is less concerned with seeming powerful and dangerous and more concerned with actually being powerful and dangerous. Ruth is uncertain about her ability to hold firm in the face of dangerous opposition (and, as we’ve discovered, rightfully so). Mary is not. Mary is just nasty and plain mean enough that the she’s the if-I-burn-you-burn-with-me type – she’d take you down just to see you go down, even if she goes down, too. Because watching you go down gives her enough satisfaction that it’s worth whatever damage is done to her in the process. Because at her core, Mary is just that sadistic.
Ruth? Ruth is posturing to cover up her insecurities and mental illness. She probably protects her brother from their grandfather and protected him in school by being the badass dangerous and tough older sister who would fuck your shit up if you messed with him. She couldn’t show her pain, Howard needed her to be strong and needed her to shield him from their grandfather, and she sure as hell wasn’t getting any help from her grandfather, either (as we’ve seen – he’s someone so abusive that a conversation can drive her to suicidal self-destruction). So she buried her pain and acted tough, leading to the persona she projects to the floor. But at her core, Ruth doesn’t take any joy in being nasty. I think, for her, nasty is a fear response: she puts on tough & violent persona whenever she’s afraid of something, which I think is is pretty much always.
Ruth may mostly be projecting, but she’s definitely not just projecting. Ther’eve been times the thorns came out against complete nonthreats who shouldn’t have even reminded her of anything threatening. Still, it’s possible she mostly is (Or it started as a mask and has started to become her face because it fit better than whatever the hell was there before.
I think the latter is more likely the case – I think nasty/tough posturing has just become habit for her at this point and she doesn’t really know how to interact with someone normally (see also how baffled she is whenever Billie is nice to her – I relate to that a lot cuz when I got out of high school and out of my folks’ place, I remember spending my first 6 months or so of university being really amazed that everyone was being so nice and waiting on the other shoe to drop and for them to do something nasty, but they never did. It was the eeriest feeling – I could handle people being nasty and violent and terrible. I was used to it, and I expected it. I had my armor up for it. I couldn’t handle genuine niceness. I kept thinking it was some sort of a trick, like they were using me for something and I couldn’t figure out what. I think that’s the sort of headspace Ruth is in).
Carla has it too, and I’d put dollars to donuts she’s exercised it historically. She just doesn’t have it on this particular issue. Yes, doing the right thing here always carries some risk, but that risk is usually not “I can and will actually destroy everything you love and end your life as you know it.” The initial “Calm before the motherfuckin’ storm” was sufficient for me. I don’t require people to actually BE suicidal. My desire not to be disappointed aside, it’s not pragmatic, since it’s rather a high bar.
Fuck Mary, tho.
Oh yes. It’s a hard decision to risk everything in your life for another person. Especially when you could just as easily walk away. And I’d imagine most of us have made the “walk away” choice at one time or another.
Sometimes, not always, walking away can extract a high price too. Extreme case: The Dutch soldiers who stood aside in Srebrenica, allowing a genocide to be done, a very high % are paying a very high psychological cost.
Not to mention she’s pretty terrible at her job.
Who the hell were the other applicants, Vampires? Mummies?
Mummavampies?
Why stop there? Why not make the Combo Man of public domain monsters?
Night of the Living Turduckens.
She’s not really abusive though? I mean, yes, she’s occasionally violent, but she’s never actually directed that violence towards someone who didn’t pick a fight with her first, and has readily thrown herself in the way of danger on behalf of her charges.
Yeah, she could definitely be a bit more openly compassionate, but push comes to shove, I’d love an RA who was willing to stick her neck out for me as much as Ruth is.
So far Ruth has physically dragged students to meetings, repeatedly assaulted Billie and sexually assaulted her at one point, and destroyed student property.
Even if it was all just directed at Billie, she’d still be an abusive shithead.
Okay, first off, “sexually assaulted?” She drunkenly kissed Billie. Did that violate a boundary? Yes. But she’s far from some kind of sex offender, using her position of authority to force Billie into having sex with her. And any time they’ve gotten into a physical altercation, it was a mutual act with neither one getting any serious injuries from it. (Seriously, there’s a reason most assault statutes have a consent exception to them, although admittedly a part of that is so there isn’t a lawsuit everytime someone gets tackled in a football game.)
“Abuse” isn’t just about the use of physical force or intimidation. It’s about control, about breaking down someone’s will so they’ll do anything you want. Ruth may be overly physical in her methods, and may prefer the stick to the carrot, but nothing about her is abusive. She tries her best to respect boundaries, only uses overt force when confronted with real physical danger, and genuinely works to keep other people’s best interests in mind (even when she can’t do the same for herself).
Compare/contrast Blaine and Ross, who not only use violence to control their daughters, but have a whole host of psychological and emotional tactics to force them into submitting to their will. Blaine, of course, is a consummate manipulator, putting on a nice appearance and tending to use violence only when his silver tongue can’t do the job. Ross, on the other hand, prefers to use his faith as a weapon (along with his actual weapon), equating his own wrath with the Wrath of God to induce absolute conformity.
Now those are abusers. Ruth’s behavior, by comparison, is nothing.
Abuse is not any one thing. Abuse doesn’t even have to be intentional let alone an active effort to exercise control over someone (although that’s very frequently the form Ruth’s abuse of the students takes). Ruth is an abuser. She abuses her charges and she’s abused Billie. It’s not about “by comparison,” it doesn’t matter if other abusers are worse. An abuser can have the best intentions in the world and still be a toxic influence on the people around them. I’m having none of this fallacy of relative privation nonsense. Ruth does not have to be as bad as Blaine or Ross for her to be an abuser. That’s why people can still love their abusers even as they grind away at your self-worth and independence: because they aren’t necessarily a violent psychopath.
She didn’t JUST drunkenly kiss Billie, though. She called her fat (while she was crying), then slammed her against the wall and glared at her, then kissed her.
And Ruth isn’t as bad as Blaine or Toedad, but she’s definitely bullying her residents. Sure, she’s had her high points (Punching Blaine, trying to comfort Amber after the Blaine thing, being sort of sometimes nice to the other residents, etc.) but she that doesn’t excuse the whole “constantly physically assaulting people” thing.
That initial kiss was definitely way over the line, as was pretty much their entire relationship up to then. That was sexual assault. Harassment, since Ruth was in a position of authority. Billie had a valid complaint at that point.
Since then and since they actually started a relationship, things have changed. The actual relationship isn’t abusive or bullying – or to the extent that it is, it goes both ways. Billie gives as good as she takes.
It’s not healthy, but in other ways. They’re co-dependent. They’re enabling each other’s alcoholism.
People’s reactions to Ruth’s violence have tended to be “that was awesome”. And she has been shown to give helpful, caring advice to residents who aren’t Billie.
I’d bet Ruth is pretty popular among her charges. Even if they are afraid of what she would have to do to Becky because she is in charge.
she was abusive. to billie. almost none of the shit she pulled on billie before they got together was provoked.
she doesnt act like that now, but its still something that happened.
It’s excused if you’re a tsundere.
Dorothy is abusive though. She has the people on her floor scared shitless of her because she steals their shit, forces them to places because she’s taller and stronger than them, and has slapped them for asking her to do their job(I know the last one was Mary but that don’t excuse it).
She’s also an alcoholic and enabling that problem onto another underage student.
Also remember when she managed to flip Ambers dad, but then got whoozy cause she was still drunk a bit? Her problems are affecting her job, which affects the whole dorm.
And as we’ve just seen, she just abandoned Carla because all of that shit is now being used against her.
I’m sorry but Ruth should not be in charge of anybody, she’s a fucking mess.
Shit I meant Ruth at the beginning. Dorothy isn’t abusive. Dorothy is good.
One time Walky asked if he could have Dorothy’s cookie, and Dorothy only split it in half.
You are just saying that because Dorothy threatened you right? Blink twice and we’ll get you somewhere safe.
Small correction, but Ruth was woozy because she was undergoing alcohol withdrawl from trying to quit.
But yeah she’s always been too far gone with her methods.
No, Mary wasn’t hit for ‘asking her to do her job’. Mary was hit for angrily demanding that a secondary problem be fixed immediately, over all other concerns in her life. That isn’t ‘being asked to do your job’, anymore than Ruth slamming Blaine into the floor (Which even if she could only manage once due to alcohol withdrawal, is still way past the call of duty, so complaining about it is crass at best) is ‘lawfully asking him to leave’. Technically accurate, but woefully underinformative.
Ruth puts a fair amount of effort into doing actual good that is easily glossed over because it’s not camera-worthy like her hurling Joyce’s gloves out the window is (See also: Roz, activism. Ref: handing out condoms while wearing the condom hat). She walked into Carla and Mary’s fight because she was going to go find the loud jerk who was making a ton of noise in her hall and give them what-for, then ran into the worst human in the building being the worst human in the building.
It’s not as simple as “Ruth is irredeemably awful or the absolute worst”. She probably shouldn’t be an RA, but pretty much the only three people who probably should have their job are Leslie, Asma, and Professor Dean, and I’m technically guessing in the last instance.
Everything you said.
Also, RA Asma would be best RA.
And Billie would absolutely loathe her after a week.
There are LOTS of people around here who are bad at their jobs, that’s completely true, and Ruth is one of them.
The big problem is that she creates a toxic atmosphere, she teaches the residents that they shouldn’t go to the RA or other authorities with problems big and small. (“they like that I run a tight ship”) and that bullying is an acceptable way to solve problems. That makes it very hard to put up a united front against people like Mary.
With a fair RA Mary would still be a lot of trouble but she would have less ammunition.
Asma really would be best RA. Oh yes, Billie would be driven nuts by her, mostly because she does her job instead of ruling by fear and random acts of aggression. Back when Billie and Ruth were primary fighting rather than fucking, Billie had no problem with the way Ruth handled things. She was just pissed that Ruth was better at it than she.
she did not act with integrity. many regrets
such truck. wow.
Oh gosh, wow.
Too soon.
It was 16 years ago!
Still too soon, gosh darn it!
To be fair, she’s kind of in a bad spot. Now that she’s been caught, she has one of three options:
1) Abandon her relationship with Billie, AKA the only real support network she has to stop herself from descending into suicidal depression.
2) Let Mary continue to blackmail her, with all the consequences that implies.
3) Come clean about her relationship, potentially lose her RA position and the pay/tuition that comes with it and endanger Billie at the same time.
Yes, if she were more morally upright, she might not even be in this position in the first place, but this is a situation that can result in Ruth seriously hurting herself. However bad she’s been, she doesn’t deserve that kind of self-destruction.
The one that has been mentioned in the comments, but none of the characters are thinking of it: Ruth and Billie ask for Billie to be moved to another floor. Might take a while, might involve paperwork, but not impossible.
If Billie gets moved, then Sal would get a new roommate, which means that Becky needs a new place to stay. But, Mary would have no more power over Ruth.
Yes, that would be a reasonable solution… if the school is reasonable about it. And who knows, they might be! But they’d be well within their rights, if they were informed about Ruth and Billie’s relationship, to simply terminate Ruth from her position.
I can actually see this as kind of a rallying moment: Mary pulls the trigger on her blackmail, Ruth is just on the verge of losing everything… and the other people on the floor come out to testify on her behalf, because god dammit, she gets some slack for supplexing Blaine, doesn’t she?
Option 4: Fix the problem. Use a combination of legitimate channels and lies to defuse all of Mary’s blackmail and then crush her utterly. Because really, Mary has next to nothing in terms of evidence for any of her claims.
I LEAVE FOR 1 WEEK WILLIS! ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS KEEP THINGS HAPPY FOR ONE WEEK!
This is Willis we’re talking about.
You should’ve seen something like this coming!
ok but you didn’t actually expect that to happen, did you? this is a willis comic.
“Dumbing” should be changed to “Saddening”, so that people will know what to expect.
pure happy all the time makes for a less than interesting story
The Sad Train was allowed to go on for much longer than could be seen as healthy for a significant number of characters and readers involved. Yes, Pure Happy is bad, but oh sweet jesus.
I might be a tad biased, because all the webcomics that I read and that update regularly all converged to have their sad and worrying moments happen on the same day and I was actually kinda emotionally not okay.
You need to have ups and downs. Characters always being happy is just as boring as the characters always being miserable.
It’s why I’m glad there’s a hole in Dina/Becky with Dina dealing with her own insecurities and Becky not being over Joyce. D
Is the “D” at the end supposed to be Joyce’s triangle smile or a typo of ‘:D’. Because it makes sense either way.
Knowing me I was probably just going to complain about Dorothy again.
Carla should invest in bunny ears if she can’t get the skates clean. That’d be hilarious.
She could be Carla the easter rabbit and she’d hide pairs of new skates instead of eggs.
That’s a lot more expensive.
How about eggs with middle fingers painted on them?
I’m strangely ok with this.
I wonder if she even realizes that she could walk normally.
its not that easy to walk in roller skates but also the hopping is probably a good stress outlet right now
If she pretends they’re platform shoes and invests in a cane she could strut like a pimp.
And she needs a pimp ride as well, which should be named Ultra Car.
A car that bounces up and down on hydraulics.
And throws pies at Mary.
And strands her in the Amazon
I’m just amused that no one bats an eye at Carla hopping down the hall in skates. It’s just “Hey Carla” like it’s something they see every day.
I would expect someone to say, “What’s with Carla?” but it’s the next scene.
She knows she COULD. Why would she WANT to?
So now, someone beside Jason know he’s fucking up his study badly.
Mike also knows.
Mike knows everything. I’m convinced he’s got the whole campus bugged.
Oh, right.
Mike knows, too, and I suspect that he won’t be keeping it to himself indefinitely. He’s probably waiting for the right time to humiliate Walky with this.
Is Dorothy actually out of earshot in that last panel? She had just started walking away in the previous panel.
How does she know what? Is Walky cheating? What am I missing?
He’s one of those students that was able to coast his way to good grades in high school and as such is unprepared for a university workload.
Walky’s failing math.
Walky’s started failing math and he’s not taking it seriously.
I think he’s taking it way too seriously. So much that he can’t see he can fix his problems -by actually studying-, but he gets nervous and things get worse. :p
He “tried” studying. But he doesn’t know how, and has no (good) study habits.
Oh, he knows he can fix his problems by studying.
He just doesn’t know how to study.
Of course in a lot of ways, math is one of the easiest things to study. You basically just do the problems they have at the end of each chapter. More than assigned if you’re still having trouble with them. Pay attention in class and dig through the text to figure out the ones you don’t understand. Usually, there are answers in the back so you know when you’re not doing it right.
It’s not easy, but the process is pretty straightforward, unlike some classes where it really isn’t clear where to start and there’s no way to check whether you’re getting it right until you hit tests and quizzes.
My biggest problems with math after high school were
Lecturing TAs in an auditorium with poor English diction, and
A later “teacher” who taught by “Today’s chapter is x, break up into groups and figure it out your own damn selves”.
My math teacher had a combination of bad English diction and an obsession with one of those programs that creates math problems for homework. He also had a bad habit of starting discussions about things like religion and history so he could dictate what those were because and I quote what he said when I pointed out he was factually wrong about something to do with the pledge of allegiance “You can’t know that, you’re not a history major.”
People who have never had to study don’t know how to study.
Not as true as is accepted as gospel! I learned how to study in high school. I didn’t /need/ to until late-Sophomore college, but I learned /how/ to. See, that whole ‘watch in class and you learn most of the material thing’? s’truth and all, but I had a teacher who taught us how to take notes and study. And it was in class, so…. XD
See, you were taught how to study before you needed it. Thus you do not apply to my point.
In our school at biology I think we were at some point explicitly taught how to take notes!
…well, not really. We were just told to look up the selected chapter and take notes on it, and that later they’d be checked.
I don’t remember exactly how I figured out I basically need to make a cheat list, but I did. Taking notes is suprisingly the same process – write out the most crucial points you are most likely to forget.
Ever since then, I took notes that way instead of writing down what the teacher was dictating, in all lessons. SO MUCH FREE DOODLING TIME.
…I guess I sorta knew how to study even if I was cruising on prior knowledge up until then. Huh.
…I figured it out. I studied English (not a native speaker) since kindergarten pretty much, and THAT part always took explicit effort STUDYING, and I started out doing it with my mom, so I was very much TAUGHT how to study. I just didn’t need it at school for the longest time.
…point taken for my own future kids 😮
Walky is failing his math class. Joyce passes him his graded homework and tests
Remember those handfuls of strips showing Walky freaking out over returned assignments? He’s getting bad grades.
Like three arcs ago, he got a 28 on his paper. I guess the bad grades never stopped. Guess he’ll have to pick up where Sal left off with Jason.
Not sure Jason will be as receptive to any loving from Walky as he was to Sal.
it’s as if I jus theard a million voices yelling “SLIPSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE”, right before they all were silenced.
I certainly hope not! Dorothy’s and awesome girlfriend!
she gets to watch
Well maybe not pick up where Sal left off with Jason if you catch my meaning.
I assumed Joyce was referring to the two making out and more before his low test scores came to mind.
I also thought she was telling them to spare some time for lovemaking until I got to the last panel.
She knows Walky is getting poor grades in math because she sits in his row. When the TA hands back the assignments, the people at the end of the row pass it to the other side. So when Joyce is handing the stack of papers toward the other side, she sees the grade on Walky’s paper. Or something like that.
Well they don’t know what they just missed… Shame on them! …Or on the other hand, maybe it was better that they weren’t involved.
I wish Joyce had gotten involved.
Patience, my friend. patience. Karma sometimes works slowly.
in the words of dogbert “i love karma. it’s the belief I can do horrible things to other people and assume they deserved it”
yeah yeah i know but i love that bit.
The last thing Joyce needs right now is another loud display of the “values” that pointed a rifle at her face.
It makes me happy that Carla’s still hopping
Almost happy enough not to worry about what’s about to happen with Joyce’s family
:c
Carla’s day has been shitty in many ways, but she is going to commit herself to getting that calf workout.
You could say she’s… hopping mad.
… I’ll see myself out.
*plays Fleetwood Mac’s “Gypsy” on the hacked Muzak*
*followed by Deep Purple’s “Burn”*
And therefore…
Well Joyce did go in the water that one time they all went to the beach, so I think we can rule out “witch”.
I’m a Wiccan, and I swim very well 🙂
Of course. If you throw them in the water and they don’t drown, witch. QED.
So about Carla being trans…
…portation?
OH MY G-D!
Was that on purpose? Am I the only one who didn’t put that together?
Will we see Roz getting a piggyback ride from Carla one of these days?
Piggyback ride, is that what the kids are calling it these days?
What of it?
…she certainly is!
And everyone in the comment section was perfectly polite and respectful to both the character and each other, and we all lived happily ever after.
That explains the free pony that showed up today.
I named mine Cherryblossom!
Mine showed up, and now my backyard is full of horse shit
Appropriate Avatar 😉
As proof, did you see any negative comments about her in the comment thread for the last comic? No. No, you did not. Ergo, 100% respectful. QED, ipso facto, I R lawyer.
That is… technically accurate.
technical truths, the best ones.
Your reasoning is airtight! How about coming on as partner at Yossarianduck & Yossarianduck Law Firm and Salad Dressing Dispensiary?
I M Weasel
Huh. So that’s where the phrase ‘don’t need pants for the victory dance’ entered my lexicon from. I had forgotten that.
So about Willis closed the comments on those couple strips for a reason…namely no baiting and feeding trolls.
Strongly Agree. Willis and his trans readers were getting quite exhausted over it. Hell, I’m privileged and excessively patient, and even I was feeling a bit stretched. Let’s all just let the matter rest.
Sir Bedevere: “What weighs the same as a Joyce?”
Walky: “No math!”
I never realized just how tall Carla is until that panel.
Skates give her as much lift as platform shoes.
But with none of the style.
Um, those skates are way more stylish than platform shoes. When they’re working, they let her roll around all over the place. When they’re messed up, like they are now, they sort of have that cool “grunge” style, with the torn-up looking wheels and stuff. Grunge is getting popular again, right? Either way, she looks cool.
Oh and also, WHAT KIND OF MONSTER STICKS LITTLE FISH IN THEIR SHOES? THEY NEED MORE SPACE THAN THAT!
At least you didn’t scene the scene when those shoes break.
Even if the shoes didn’t break, the walking motion would be like living in a continuous underwater quake for those fishes.
I was actually thinking of those skates in their ruined state being used as shoes.
She’s also currently jumping.
It is truly sad how much like Walky I was in freshman year regarding my grades.
Also, don’t worry, Walky, ignoring it will make it go away!
when was it explained that carla was trans? just yesterday, or did i miss something in earlier comics?
Yesterday was the first time it was ever stated in-comic, but otherwise we got a handful of hints throughout the comic and confirmed on Willis’ tumblr.
It’s been word of god canon for a long time now, and hinted at in the comic (comments about her being tall, unsure whether she’d be welcome at roller derby, and when she saw the penis drawn on her white board, she called it a hate crime til she saw everyone had one–then it was just hilarious)
But this last arc was the last time it was stated in so many words.
Also I believe it was mentioned that she was the only one in the dorm to get a room to herself so she’d be more comfortable.
Didn’t she actually pay for a single room, though?
It was just that when Joyce introduced her to Becky, she thought there was a reason for that and didn’t know what it was.
Okay now that’s bullshit.
Unless dorms are making students pay for rooms these days then ignore the angry old person rant.
Hrrmphhrrmphhurmff
…are you implying that dorms used to be free? I don’t think I can handle that idea.
… Yes? It’s been almost 20 years since I was in Uni and we had to pay…
Last I checked, most colleges charged each student in the dorms more per month than renting an off-campus apartment cost. (This was a state college, not a private university.) That’s per head, so a 500 square foot quad was pulling in $4,000 a month for the school. That’s just a bedroom, there were common areas and bathrooms for each floor, and a small kitchen in the basement. Add a meal plan on top of that (in our case a fixed cost per meal, which you’re budgeted three per day), plus fees collected for other extracurriculars…
Tuition was the least expensive part.
There very much probably was. Putting the trans kid in a single room to sidestep the roommate situation is a fairly common thing and often part of the partial support trans kids get from “supportive campuses”.
It’s basically on the same level as having the trans kid use the single-stall bathroom in the teacher’s area to avoid “causing a conflict” with the whole “bathroom issue”.
I mean, the campus may be supportive, but you have to admit there would otherwise be the risk she’d end up roommates with someone like Mary. Sharing a bathroom with an intolerant asshole for a few minutes while you’re in the shower is one thing, but sharing a room might not be worth that risk.
That Carla is trans has never been explicitly stated in the comic. But there have been several clues. Also, Willis has explicitly said on Tumblr that DoA Carla is trans and asexual.
Some of the clues about Carla:
Carla has a single room for some reason not know to Joyce.
There is a reason Carla is so tall.
Carla says a picture of a penis on her door only would be a hate crime.
Sorry, that is my canned post from before yesterday.
Initially, I thought Carla identified as Ultra Car, because I saw something about her being “trans-chassis.” Also the strip after the one about her being tall seemed confirmatory. But I did eventually learn that she was trans* through the comments section.
I know I shouldn’t, but :
Carla is *litterally* stomping away.
Kinda wanna see where Joyce is going with this…
Well after everything that’s happened I think we’re all thinking the same thing.
Why hasn’t Carla taken off the skates?
That would be surrendering to Mary.
It’s been mentioned that she’s always wearing them. Everywhere.
Maybe it’s something that keeps her comfortable? I dunno what the proper term is.
Euphoria (i.e. a feeling of resolving dysphoria, in this case gender dysphoria).
I’m very convinced that the skates are a crucial part of making her feel more comfortable in her body and her gender presentation. This is mostly based on her absolute joy when she acquired her skates and the fact that she didn’t smile at all during the comics when her skates were “on hiatus” as well as how much she wears them, especially in areas with other people she isn’t more relaxed around.
Which adds an extra layer of awful to Mary’s actions if she destroyed something crucial to her feeling comfortable in her skin and then slammed her with a massive load of transphobia right after. And it would also explain why she’s still hopping now rather than just taking off the skates and walking back to her room.
oh my god, I actually didn’t figure out that Mary was being transphobic…
I took her ‘boys’ dorm’ comment as something like the ‘i’ll leave for the monastery! male monastery!’ gag from that one kids’ cartoon… and I did know Carla was trans from the comments section.
I just… didn’t put 2+2 together.
Huh.
She’s hopping mad.
You crafty fuck.
oh lord.
*squints eyes*
I actually skated past this the first time. Well done.
That pun deserves a tip of the derby.
I like you better than the first three people who responded. They saw us rollerin’, they hatin’.
i’m just wondering why she isn’t walking in them. unless they’re completely glued together, i guess?
If she’s anything like me, she’s going to hop and HoP and HOP until Mary snaps and confronts her again, preferably in public with an authority figure around to hear the hate speech. I’d take the punishment for hopping around in broken skates that I could squarely pin on her and the glue stain in front of her door just to make someone with power over her deal with her.
Carla doesn’t walk. Walking is for plebes. If she can’t roll, she’ll hop.
Walking is so… pedestrian.
…
I don’t know whether to groan, or to curse the fact I failed to come up with that one.
Glue.
But is she a good witch, or a bad witch?
She’s not good, she’s not nice, she’s just Joyce.
When I read that comment, I heard Bernadette Peters singing the song. Thank you.
Walky went to school where he had no problems with the work. A lot of our HS work is not demanding, and requires more memorization that it does thinking. They aren’t learning how to study.
The first semester of college requires work from day one. Three hours of homework is suggested for every hour you spend in class. Walky has been discovering that he has to learn to study, and he has no idea how and won’t admit it.
So how would you like this whole thing to play out?
Walky learns how to study and is right back to where he was?
Or.
Walky refuses to adapt and gets left behind, inevitably we have another scene where Dorothy has to consider her future over her heart.
Dorothy already has to consider that, because Walky already stated that he had no interest in following her to Yale.
I’m interested in seeing how Dorothy will react to Walky’s slipping grades. Im really not sure what to expect from it, other than its inevitability.
Haven’t both her and Walky admitted this is supposed to be just a “for funsies” thing? Or is this one of those “I say this but I MEAN this” deals?
It started out like that but then they both realized it was a bit more than that.
both but the latter happens first, dorothy decides she doesnt have a problem with walkys having poor grades, and then the former only happens later after walky decides he has a problem with it
also at some point walky dumps dorothy again
WALKY dumps Dorothy?
You know that Joyce won’t allow that shit.
Now that Joyce has broken through the cursing barrier, I shudder to think what “I’m getting soft serve” will turn into.
This actually happened and yeah, Joyce instantly dragged him back and made him get back together with her so that she could dump him instead (the last part didn’t happen).
joyce has to learn thats in no way her place to decide at some point
actually, im pretty sure shes already done it
If they do ever break up, I’d say it’d happen because Walky eventually can’t deal with dating Dorothy while knowing it’s going to end (since the actual endpoint, Dorothy leaving, is never going to happen in the class).
If Walky learns to study and improves his grades, he’s not “right back where he was”. Kind of the opposite, really, and a much better place.
I can say this with confidence, since I’m also one of the “coasted straight through” crowd. I hit the wall in second or third year of university and never really recovered; now, many years later, I’ve come to understand it as one of the big contributing factors to the depression and massive self-esteem issues I still struggle with. I didn’t understand it at the time, and I really hope Walky gets over the denial and asks someone for help.
Yanno, back during the race argument between the twins, I commented that Sal would be the doctor in the family as opposed to Walky.
Walky did actually become a doctor in the alternate universe where he married Dorothy shown in Joyce & Walky!.
The ability is there, but Walky has no idea or drive to bring it out.
There’s something weird about them casually knowing who Carla is when they don’t really interact. I know logically everyone in the wing should be passingly familiar with each other, but it’s less real if we don’t ‘see’ it happen.
I checked the archives, Joyce and Carla were last seen together 14 months ago. So… I guess they do know each other. Ah, but this is the first time Dorothy and Carla have been together, and the second time for Carla and Walky. Thanks, + feature in the character archives.
The implication I got off that is that Carla is generally well-liked on the floor.
I’m not sure. Carla seems to make it a point to cultivate an image of being an asshole to everyone according to her bio.
Literally, she got mad that everyone thought she wasn’t the Whiteboard Ding Dong Bandit.
Yeah, so did my ex-boyfriend, but he also had a wide group of friends who liked him well enough. There’s that sweet spot where everyone who knows you will agree you’re a total ass, but a fun one to be around.
She’s the lovable goofbutt, the type of person who’s gonna be rough around the edges and have a bone to pick with the world but is also gonna be an all right gal to spend time with.
Yeah, I think I was looking at it wrong because for the life of me I can’t actually see Carla ever doing anything that would land her the title of Dorm Asshole. The only people she’s been remotely curt with so far was Malaya, and loudly expressed how uncomfortable she was with the idea of ganging up on Amazi-Girl when for all she knew she was there to beat the hell out of all of them.
Yeah, she’s much more reminiscent of people I know who describe themselves as assholes, who nonetheless are the first people to help out in a crisis providing emotional support and wouldn’t dare hurt a fly.
I think a lot of it has to do with mistaking massive amounts of cynicism and disrespect for authority as making one an asshole.
And now that I think it, there’s never been a point where Carla doesn’t give what she can take. She ribbed Sal for her thing with Marcie and Malaya, but Sal’s tough and hasn’t been the chillest person with her either; that barbing is how they roll. She got mad nobody thought she was the Ding Dong Bandit because why doesn’t anyone think she pulled the sweet prank, huh?
And let us not forget, when she saw Amber, that nerdasaurus doofus bleeding and with broken glasses, she… promptly helped clean her up without a fuss because she knows how much of a pain in the ass it is to try and take care of this by yourself.
Carla strikes me as one of those kids who takes power in the label of Asshole, rather than actually ever acting it out.
It’s not just power, it’s safety. If you’re that weird asshole, you’re not “that acceptable target” or someone who’s a “mystery” to “solve”.
For someone who’s used to interactions with people that mostly involve badness, “asshole” can be a means of protecting oneself from the worst of it because getting left alone trumps getting beat up or harassed.
But yeah, I agree, that scene with Amber or the hangout scenes with Sal are where we see her let down her guard a little and show her real colors.
I relate to this, and by extension Carla, deeply
yeah but the main reason no one thought it was her was because none of them actually thought she was an asshole, wasnt it?
Because she lost her mindshare. New people = people who don’t know her.
if she was really an asshole shed be acting that way often enough for them to know it. everyone knows what marys like, after all
They all met and had wacky adventures together during that 4 day jump back when Walky was waiting for his pajama jeans or whatever.
Carla bought those new skates with the secret Nazi gold her and Sal liberated from a disappeared German U-Boat lost for decades, while also thwarting the machinations of mercenaries seeking to claim it for their sinister ends.
Ooh, did any of them hold a brief speech about how the dead nazi guys’ possessions were just things worth nothing but the prize they fetch on the black market?
Spencer, I like it. Tell me more.
If Sal found Nazi gold she’d cash it in, buy the most expensive cycle known to humanity that can accept a sidecar, and she and Marcie would never be seen in the comic again. Willis would have to start a new comic revolving around their adventures as they travelled across America. Maybe Carla would get to come along, riding on jet rollerskates.
And speaking of Sal I wonder what her major is.
But you know Marice wouldn’t leave unless Marcie tagged along. Which means we get to have Sal and Malaya arguing more and maybe eventually becoming friends who just happen to hate each other.
Somebody make this into a television show.
…Meant to say Marcie wouldn’t leave unless Malaya tagged along.
Fourteen months ago, eh? So in strip time that’s… let’s see… carry the one… and the cube root is… second derivative…
…I get about three or four weeks.
About 2. We’ve just had ~a week time jump, and have been averaging a week a year without the jumps.
It’s been about eight days since we’ve last seen them on panel together. It was when Joyce was showing Becky around, introducing her to everyone on the floor.
Walky referenced a pagan religion and Joyce didn’t start flipping about it! Joyce really has changed.
I think that she just know Walky is all. She usually does ignore him.
It was okay for Joyce to read fairy tales, they are the ones where it is acceptable to burn witches in ovens.
I had a bit of a shock when I found the unexpurgated Brothers Grimm in the University library. Quite a few fairy tales end with “Then the Jew was horribly tortured to death for a crime he didn’t commit and everyone else lived happily ever after. Hooray!” All the prettied-up and bowdlerised modern versions suddenly start to look good.
You want to really blow your mind, try reading the psychological version of a fairy tale. Snow White as a nymph, sex with the dwarves, growing up and becoming a woman.
And now back to your regularly scheduled shenanigans.
From the fire, and into another frying pan.
I know this is the easiest joke to make, but…
She’s going to turn him into a newt.
Will he get better?
He will become a salamander, that is better than newt, right?
Why not an axolotl?
Because he herd u liek mudkips. :p
But an axolotl is cooler, it can regenerate it’s lost appendages. Though these poor guys are critically endengared.
WIIIIIIIITCH
And now, she can join Roz’s coven and actually get help for her PTSD:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/03-the-first-step-towards-recovery/card-2/
Somehow this doesn’t seem as funny after the past week. There’s this odd feeling of an expected mood whiplash that isn’t happening.
If it helps, Joyce is on her way back to visit her fundie family, taking her newly-expanded horizons with her, and we’ve seen Jocelyne in preview panels.
I’m sure this week’s depiction of a trans girl being attacked by a bigoted fundie, and being hung out to dry by people who should support her, won’t turn out to be relevant to Joyce’s family visit at all, nope, nosiree.
Isn’t it weird how much Walky cares about his success in university? I mean, he doesn’t even want his degree.
It’s more that he’s probably carrying around this self-identity of smart because he could cruise through high school without having to try. Now he can’t do that any longer and that’s a blow to how he sees himself.
But does she weigh the same as a duck?
So I have to say at first I was mad at Willis for closing comments on these last few comics. I find the comments almost as entertaining as the comic. Then I realized: he’s a new dad to twins… I’m sure he doesn’t have the time to police the comments anymore. So I understand, even if I don’t like it sometimes.
I mean he could…just not do that? I’m pretty sure there’s apps(or whatever you call them) where you can do the downvote/upvote thing, and if a comment gets enough downvotes it gets deleted.
Those tend to be… let’s just say ripe for abuse.
Not sure how. If it’s just the two or three trolls they’d be outnumbered by the people here. It also saves Willis the stress of having to read that shit all the time.
Or ya’ know, if that doesn’t work we could always ignore them.
Proxies + multivoting. There are reasons internet polls are inherently worthless.
That or coordination from some arsehole forum or board or subreddit.
We had so many random trolls last arc that I’m kind of wondering if it was something like that.
I can see a mechanism to work around that, although it’s not perfect.
1. Registration wall.
2. New accounts require manual post approval.
3. New account sign-up shut off entirely during controversial comics.
4. Ration moderation points based on reputation and time spent as a member. (This has its own potential for abuse (primarily promoting groupthink) if the point rationing isn’t designed properly, though – see Slashdot.)
Not all of those measures are strictly necessary, though – the QC forums went through a wave of transphobic commenters when Claire came out as trans, and managed it through #1 and a strong moderation team that was being advised by the trans members of the forum (some of which are now moderators themselves). No downvoting system required.
However, particularly trollish types may brigade a forum such that #2 or #3 is needed. And, #4 is actually an attempt to counteract extremely persistent trolls that pre-register new accounts to counteract #3 (I’ve actually been on a forum where trolls did pre-register new accounts years before getting their main account banned, even, so that they could keep using new accounts with less suspicion because they weren’t chronologically new).
My only experience with a reputation system is Stack Exchange sites so while I think it could work I can’t think of how you’d gain rep.
I do like the idea that people would have to earn the right to leave more than one comment though. I also like the idea that trusted users can get moderation powers so this isn’t all on Willis.
The big problem I see with this is how to implement it. Is there an existing comment platform with these features?
The Sims 4 forums initially tried the “upvote” “downvote” route for self-policing…and it led to trolls not only using proxies and multivoting, but getting friends to join the boards for the sole purpose of helping them bury people who disagreed with them, annoyed them, or turned them in for breaking the rules. The vocal minority in support of following the rules got buried because they were afraid of getting banned by trying to set up multiple accounts, and the trolls didn’t care so they set up a new account every time they were buried. It also filled the moderator queue with literal false flags, wherein the trolls revenge reported people for no reason every time they got reported for a rule violation.
All of that.
I used to moderate a high-traffic blog and it was not uncommon for some troll to go grab a gang of troll buddies who’d just bounce from profile to profile and IP address to IP address to try and flood the comment threads morning, noon, and night in order to try and strangle out any form of communication between people. Took an army of moderators to eventually fully shut that shit down (that guy and his friends had literally no life).
“we could always ignore them.”
Yeah, that never works. I know the common refrain is “don’t feed the trolls” but the result of that is people are free to saty awful, bigoted crap with zero repercussions or push back. This is especially bad for the folks in those groups being attacked. By not pushing back the community is tolerating those viewpoints and can even appear to agree with them.
Piling on those comments may not change those folks’ minds but at least the people being targeted see that the majority of the community doesn’t agree with them.
Voting on comments is too easily abused.
It’s understandable. I used to moderate a political discussion board that got maybe half as many people as you usually see in these comment sections, and even with 2-3 moderators and a “things that will get you banned” list that was literally one single rule, there were days when it felt like we needed 10+ mods to keep up with the waves of trolls and people making personal attacks. *Especially* when the issues this comic usually deals with came up.
The fact that Willis is able to moderate the comments section alone is a damn feat. I might not like the locked comments sections, but I completely understand why it was done.
Much as I’ve been entertained by the comment community here, it’s getting extremely painful to read the archives now. It’s amazing how much faster the comment-less pages load.
Willis’ tolerance for bullshit has lowered over the years, and that’s saying something.
i just figured he expected people to be terrible, because there are certain topics for which that is an inevitability, and trans people is one of them.
(well, to be fair, people don’t need much excuse to be assholes, but for some reason “people having a better idea of who they are than the people who aren’t them” gets some folk SO MAD.)
I’d like to see a “trolls banned” counter on the website. Just a thought.
I feel really bad for Carla; Joyce wouldn’t have caved in to Mary’s bullshit tactics. I hope that if they do confront each other, they start arguing in Bible verses, at first recalling them verbatim, then just shouting the book and verses at each other. And then Joyce ends it with “EZEKIEL 25:17!” and knocks her out.
That is if she gets past Exodus 22:18
She just needs to get to Austin 3:16.
Dammit, I snickered!
I’m a student like Walky (you know, the “smart enough to never learn to study” type) but I can’t figure out how to make myself turn it around. I get really mad at myself sometimes because I’ll sit down to try and start seriously studying or researching or writing an in-depth essay and it’s like my brain was magnetically repulsed from the work. After a screening test from a psychologist it’s starting to look like I actually might have ADHD, so that was… a fun surprise. Anyway, I’m really interested to see the “brilliant but lazy”/”never learned to study” trope played out with (what seems to be so far) a neurotypical person.
Coffee helps
Why stop at coffee? I’ve had it from multiple sources that adderol, aka laboratory developed, tested and manufactured speed, is routinely used in college settings.
Apparently in the Ivy league schools, you’re “not even in the game” if you don’t take adderol.
And no one really knows what the long, long term effects are because it was only developed in ’94. Fun stuff.
So, this comment chain goes “after many academic problems my psychologist and I are looking at a possible ADHD diagnosis” -> “coffee helps” -> “hey you know what sucks? an established medical treatment for ADHD” and it’s really bizarre. I don’t think you’re having the same conversation as darkoneko and me.
If he has ADHD, Adderall can definitely help. You see, people with ADHD have what’s called a “paradoxic reaction” to stimulants – it actually calms the brain function down, rather than overexciting it. Coffee does help, as the caffeine has a calming effect, but for clinical cases other medications can make a real difference.
If you want a case in point, come sit for my ten-year-old on a day when he hasn’t had his Adderall. Bring earplugs, you’ll need ’em.
Can I bring duct tape too ?
Silence is golden. Duct tape is silver.
I’m actually a “she”, but other than that you’re spot on. Clinical use of Adderall is not some “kids today!” fad, it’s a proven medical treatment for a real medical disorder.
This. I once said to MD that I didn’t get what’s to abuse with Ritalin, because I don’t feel anything I’d abuse it for. He said that that is because I’m someone for whom it’s appropriate. That doesn’t mean that adhd meds aren’t prescrI bed inappropriately and aren’t abused by people without prescriptions, but that’s a poor ass reason to make it hard or impossible for people to get them for whom they’re a game changer.
I know this almost certainly isn’t how it actually works, but I’ve often been tickled by the notion that this is due to pushing an unsigned integer over its maximum (e.g., 255) and rolling over to a much lower value (say, 20).
Sometimes a different way of studying can help. I had trouble with one language so I started writing words over and over, drawing flashcards, but I think what helped was making it kinetic when normally I am more visual. Bad explanation, but if reading the material doesn’t work, trying harder on the reading is probably not the answer.
Doubling down on a failed strategy is never a good idea.
I needed to start in my second degree befor I learned how to study.
I hated to learn it, because “why do I have to learn stuff that’s so irrelevant? Interesting things stick in my mind without me needing to do something”. But this is just the mind playing tricks, don’t listen.
I read a few books on techniques first, because I really had no clue where to start.
For me, reading stuff and writing out the most important aspects on cue cards and reciting them while doing so worked and provide cue cards for rote learning in the process. When working with the cue cards, I walk in my apartment, thus sitting less.
For you,other methods might be more fitting, it’s really kind of trial and error to find out.
Best of luck.
…This cue card thing might be a good idea to work with for me. Thanks for sharing.
I was one of those! ADHD and all. I aced every class that I was interested in, failed every class that required more from me than just being smart. It took an abnormal psychology class in college to make me think that maybe, I wasn’t just a slacker. Once I was diagnosed and medicated (“adderrall is the same as meth” = “h2o is the same as h2o2”, learn chemistry, people), it helped a TON. I learned to study, but I also had the focus and patience to study. People think ADHD is an inability to focus, but it’s really that brains with ADHD try to focus on everything at once – we’re trying to hit a bullseye with birdshot. Adderall gave me better ammunition. I still had to learn to aim, but it was easier.
Yes. ADHD is a seriously misleading name, that actually does harm. When I was a kid my folks laughed at the suggestion that I was ADD because I hyper focused so strongly. And I absorbed that and never investigated the possibility, for decades–till by chance I read the right thing and recognized myself. My therapist tells me this is still common, parents saying ‘Billy can’t be ADHD because …” and when he asks if Billy also does X,Y,Z, its yes, yes, yes. “ADHD” is a complex of attention and focus issues, AND doesn’t always involve “H”, AND is often enough co-morbid with depression &/or anxiety, which can mask the A/F issues AND complicate treating them.
That is if she gets past Exodus 22:18
Meanwhile, Ruth is setting forth her evil plan to step down as RA and have Carla be her replacement.
Oh please.
We all know it’s gonna be Sarah that takes over, and not only is she as mean as Ruth, she’s pretty much impossible to manipulate. And Mary will push her luck and Sarah will strike her down with a mighty vengeance, etc. etc.
…I would like to see Sarah take on that job, now that you mention it. Be interesting to see how she handled it, if she just brought herself to interact more with people. She’s been acting to aid people and look after people several times; it seems to be a natural impulse to her.
Also, I want to send out an early beg to everyone. Please don’t start any victim-blaming stuff about Carla on this thread. Yesterday’s comic hit home for a lot of people, myself included. Those expectations that one must be perfect not even to be treated humanely, but to be treated as something severely less tends to heavily haunt a lot of trans women and as such, may be an extremely sensitive topic.
Thank you.
How are you holding up? If you don’t mind me being nosy, that is 🙂
I’m… in a place. The last comic affected me pretty deeply and I’m still in a major vulnerable space, but I’m using my main battery of self-care techniques to try and take care of myself.
But if I run off rather than engage if the comments go awful, you shouldn’t be surprised or worried, as it just means I’ll be enacting said self-care techniques.
Totally fair. Here’s hoping things stay good today, and either way, be well! And I know I’m a total stranger, but if you ever need someone to talk at/to, I’m here.
Aw, thanks.
I second this. You’re comments are helpful to those of us who haven’t dealt with certain situations before so I’m here as well if you need to talk.
I would like to third this. And I’d also like to remark that you are an incredibly brave and nice person. Thank you for helping stand against ignorance, and just being a great person in general.
Agreed. Especially what Rukduk said.
Please take good care of yourself first of all. Your comments are always insightful and it’s been especially encouraging to read them countering some ignorant comments on this arc. But your wellbeing is more important. I’m another stranger, and not very verbal right now, but I really wish this.
(The same to anyone else in the same situation. You’re important, please do what makes you feel most okay, folks.)
Yes, this.
*hugs to all*
*expression of sympathy via light physical contact*
Yes this. To everyone else here too.
/offers ephemeral but nevertheless sincere internet hug
“In a place” is the perfect descriptor for how this arc has affected me so far.
Cerberus, I just want you to know that I find your comments enlightening and helpful. My youngest (14) is a trans boy and try as I might, I know I can never fully understand all of the struggles he deals with (there are other,albeit unrelated, issues that make it harder for him to deal with the personal issues that come up. As a result, he has a hard time expressing his feelings about what he is going through to his mother or me. I find your remarks helpful, so I thank you for that.
You know, I actually really admire this comment.
I’m impressed by your strength. This last scene was painful to read, but I don’t think I can even imagine what it was like for someone who lives it every day.
*internet hugs*
Oh no, love, you’re not alone.
No matter who’ve you been.
No matter when or where you’ve seen.
All the knives seem to lacerate your brain.
I’ve had my share, I’ll help you with the pain.
You’re not alone.
Cerberus, I hope you pull through okay. Take good care of yourself, no matter what. I’m glad you have ways of dealing with this kind of, as you put it, ‘vulnerability’.
In fact, I’d like the first paragraph of this comment to apply to everyone here. You’re all amazing people, and no matter how hard-hitting and painful a strip is, no matter how scary and difficult life might be, remember the rest of us. We’re here for you.
Everyone here will support each other, so don’t be afraid. Don’t give up, and remember that we will help if we can. You’re all like a second family to me, and I’ll care for you just the same. I trust that this feeling is mutual for everyone here, despite occasional disagreements.
Stay strong, everyone.
What Cerberus said.
+1
There was a reason those comments were closed: it was exhausting Willis and his trans readers to try and keep up with all the comments. I think it’s wisest for all of us to let the whole matter rest for now.
Cerberus, I was thinking: If people still just can’t help themselves, perhaps a whole bunch of us can take shifts as defenders against transphobic comments, or requesters for Willis to delete things, so that you know you can relax. Would that be white-knighting you, or would that be helpful?
Hopefully there’ll be no need for that, but I don’t personally think that would be offensive if you did.
Looks like people are being chill! Yay, thank you, chill people.
Echoing some of the other comments, but I’ll also thank you for posting everything you have. I really value your insight. And it makes me feel even more emotionally attached not just to the comic but to its real-life similar incidents. Yesterday’s comic had me sick to my stomach–I can’t even begin to imagine the kind of impact on people who live it.
Be Well~
+100000000
The comments section has been closed for a reason. Let’s not be that reason.
I have hugs to spare, if you want them ; )
*infinite hugs for all*
You guys/gals/non-binary individuals rock all diversity of socks.
*offers soup and… snow cream?*
It’s been hella rough the past few strips. Take care of yourself!
I can’t figure out where this will post, but here goes:
Cerberus, like others here I always look for your comments (and some others): I learn from you, I feel better for your voice, and I admire your hard won knowledge and wisdom and (relative?) equinimity. DoA without the Good Commenting wouldn’t be a fraction as important to me as it is (with NO offense to DMW, who I appreciate as much for his work maintaining his comment section for us as for his “comic”).
Elana, if you’re lurking, please let us know. We all love you and hope you are still safe.
I really appreciate the callout. I’m okay. It means a lot to matter even in passing.
Thank you.
Yay.
<3
Yay! *hugs*
Glad to see you back!
Hooray! 😀
I honestly can’t get over how nice Dorothy is in this comic. She really is in her zone when she’s helping other people and it’s really bringing out an even better side than we usually see. The warmness she’s showing to both Carla and Joyce is really heart-warming, even though as an activist I know she needs to be careful about that to ensure she doesn’t burn herself out trying to be the ray of sunshine to people in very dark funks.
Dorothy is a great, and after a week of worry and frustration she is understandably happy to have something tangible to help Joyce with.
I’m not sure she has learnt that “don’t burn out” lesson yet…
I guarantee she hasn’t. Unfortunately, if she’s anything like I was back then, she’ll just be learning it the hard way.
Huh. That actually seems like a probable next challenge of personal development for her to me. I mean, besides her relationship conflict, Dorothy’s done well in nearly every situation that she finds herself in, finding things to say to friends, being diplomatic, while keeping up her own studies at a high pace, etc. Willis is likely to give her some other big challenge to face, and this “learning it the hard way” could be it. At least I wouldn’t be surprised, considering what we’ve seen of her so far.
(I had a teacher like her for two school years. Like you, I suppose? She worked wonders for us kids who had her, as I bet you do, but she also did burn herself out more than once.)
Honestly, given her desired career path, I kind of hope she burns herself out in the timeframe of the comic. Largely because the younger you can learn those lessons of the importance of scheduling recharge time and taking care of your own mental health the better.
Yeah, that would be ideal if it is to happen anyway. If she has a bit of a crash during college, she’ll have good time to get back on her feet and figure out how to avoid that in the future.
She’s too nice for her chosen career path, though. She’d get eaten alive. I’m guessing she’ll eventually go for consul or diplomat.
“You two go study or… whatever”
She think they hump like rabbits whenever she’s not around, haha.
Well, the wall are thin apparently.
they do tho
Yup, and yup.
I don’t even like Carla but I want to give her a hug. I really want her to come ahead on this somehow, like, IDK, maybe something like: okay, sure, she had to deal with Mary’s dirtbaggery and Ruth’s cowardice but at the end of the day the entire rest of the dorm has rallied around her and made her feel welcomed and valued.
That would be nice, but practically, I hope she’s got an Ultra Car cartoon marathon and a hot cop of tea for the short-term.
And maybe a wall to lean against and sneer together with Sal.
Yeah, her little ace crush on Sal is the most adorable thing on wheels… eh? eh?
“I’m into that”
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/wall/
I know, it’s so cute. Eee… shame that Sal is like super ultra mega heterosexual/heteroromantic.
considering dorothys current “its only 20 minutes” attitude mainly started based on the fact that walky gets great grades without studying, and how much losing study time used to upset her, how much is she going to panic when she finds out
Joyce being sort of thoughtful about Walky’s grades? But expressing it with a sort of passive-aggressive subtle snark to it? Normally Joyce would not give two bags of llama doots about Walky, and would express her disdain in no uncertain terms. What is going on here? This does not feel right.
It’s because he’s Dorothy’s BF.
they get closer every day
i dont know if theyre “friends” yet though
It could just be Joyce looking for a way to be left alone.
I think she’s very very very tired. Her sentence about going to study or whatever seems less euphemistic to me than like an expression of that tiredness. I also think that she maybe finds Dorothy a bit extra tiring to be around, because she doesn’t want to ever snap at her, and that means keeping a tighter emotional leash on herself.
So in part I think yeah she didn’t want to embarrass Walky in front of Dorothy, but also I think passive-aggression takes less energy than forthrightness. This way she can tell Walky to fix it and walk away, instead of having to endure Dorothy’s pain and surprise and denial.
I don’t think she was tryong to be passive-aggressive, I think she was trying to tell Walky to study without letting Dorothy know he is having trouble. Unfortunately, that means she couldn’t say anything too directly which does look exactly the same as passive-aggressiveness.
So… did we collectively fuck up so terribly that Willis took away comments for a few days?
It was preemptive.
It’s not our fault, that window was broken before… also, can we have our ball back?
Honestly I thought this was my house.
I wish the comments section wasn’t locked for the last few comics. I wanted to clear up something I said a couple comics ago where I felt that Mary was in the right (before she threatened Ruth). I was unaware that Carla was Trans. The remark that Mary made to Carla didn’t seem at all bad to me. But, after a few people rudely explained it to me, I now know that Carla did not deserve that in any way. It was never really stated in this comic that I can remember, and I honestly thought Carla was being a jerk-face, and I still do. However, she did not deserve that comment from Mary in any way.
I’m glad you’ve come to understand that, but on the matter of us “rudely” explaining things, I hope you can understand that too many of these honest mistakes (and I absolutely understand that a lot of folks on the “I don’t get what’s wrong” wagon didn’t know that Carla was trans and very tellingly turned that view around when they learned), can come across the same way as deliberate attempts at harm, and it’s difficult for us to try and sift through the big mess and separate the folks who are lacking in that crucial knowledge and context, and people who are just braying jackasses.
I completely understand! And honestly if I had known that Carla is trans and someone would say that they thought Mary was in the right then I don’t know how I would respond to that.I hate it when people say this, but I have a close friend who is trans and he reads these comments. He also did not know why Mary was being ganged up on (at the time that’s what it felt like to us). Now we know.
*hugs*
People were rude because they are extremely accustomed to the braying jackasses. I’m glad that you were/are among the non-jackasses! Thank you for clarifying.
You know, I kinda’ wish we could learn more about Sierra. As far as background characters go(well, I mean she kinda’ counts), she’s my favorite.
You and Yotomoe should form a fan-club. 🙂
No, not a fan-club, a cult, the best one. Which one day will rule the entire world MWAHAHAHA!… Ah sorry, I got into it too much.
She’s in some of the upcoming preview panels for this storyline, but it’s still a minor role.
At least she has a name in this continuity!
Sierra easily makes my top 10 characters.
She goes to the church as Joyce, if I remember correctly, and seems to follow the same religion. But she seems a lot more flexible in her interpretation of the whole thing and that’s really kinda nice.
It also helps that she’s just damn adorable to look at.
This strip is a hell of a relief after the last couple….
Joyce will be reuniting with her dad soon. We should probably enjoy these Walky freaks out about grades strips while we can.
It’s her mom I’m worried about. Hank has generally seemed like the more level-headed one of the two.
Yeah, Hank was kind of a jerk, but he was still like, “Okay Joyce, I know you need to make your own decisions, and I’m glad you’re still being kind to people and standing up for your own faith.”
Joyce’s mom clearly wasn’t on board with that, and after seeing Joyce’s views in the Gender Studies class earlier, I’m guessing she just bit her tongue because the dad is The Patriarch and she’s “supposed to” go along with his decisions.
Pretty sure they’re both going to be kind of assholes about Becky though, and if Joycelene ever comes out… whoo boy, she’d better do it by phone from the moon, because that’s the only place she MIGHT be able to avoid the fallout radiation from their immense amounts of shock and judginess.
The chain of Ruths here makes me both laugh and sigh disappointedly*.
*Due to yesterday’s strip.
In the Ding-Dong-Bandit arc I thought she thought it was a hate crime because she just had sex a lot or something. Now that I know the truth I can see all the signs. I feel Like Danny when he finally found out about Amber/Amazigirl. I am surprised that it hasn’t been completely stated yet before now. I had completely forgotten that Carla had her own room too.
I think Willis planted it really nicely because you might miss it if you’re not used to reading the signs, but if you are, then it’s more and more obvious. The whole room to herself + being tall and uncertain if she’d be welcome in the roller derby team said it for me.
(Hm. I have trans girls among my friends. Perhaps I notice other cues than you, if your only friend you know is trans is a guy.)
Yeah. To me, it was increasingly screamingly obvious, but to someone not as familiar with her counterpart or less used to noticing little signs like that, it was definitely subtle enough to be missed. And it serves as a nice parallel to how that works in life sometimes, where if someone is already out, the new crews can sometimes just assume that they are straight or cis or so on until told otherwise despite all the clues.
And I think that is especially true when a person isn’t knowing to look for clues. After all, in a lot of fiction, Carla would be cis, simply because trans characters would be non-existent or only on the far fringes if its not specifically a trans-focused story, so why would you expect a regularly recurring character is going to be trans in most fiction?
LGBT representation outside of stories that are entirely ABOUT LGBT experiences is so important.
Or she’d be someone who is only ever hinted as being trans without it ever being confirmed, just like in a wink-and-nod way so that they can get the trans market without actually having to take the risk of including real trans representation.
They do this to bi characters a lot (see Supernatural – the way Dean has evolved is mega bi-baiting), when we’re not treated as walking fetish objects (see House MD), and I would have negative surprise if trans folk have the same experiences, by and large, regarding their representation in media.
House MD made me so angry. I thought House was going to have to admit that he was wrong for once, and that asexuality is completely valid. But instead it was just like, “Nah man, the dude’s just suffering from some disease. We can fix it. Also his wife was just totally faking it.”
I had to quit watching because of how the writers handled Thirteen.
(I was happy to see her at first – I thought it had real potential to be good representation of a bi person with a neurodegenerative disorder. But then, of course, that didn’t happen and they went the stereotype and titillation route instead)
… and yeah that’s without going into all the ableism and shit that goes on in that show. I watched it longer than I really wanted to cuz I thought it had potential, but the potential went flying out the window faster than Joyce’s gloves.
I’m disappointed, I had hopes for Thirteen too. but happy to at least know this in advance so I don’t waste money on finding out. Bleh.
Ugh House. And yeah, that oh here’s a bi character, but not out loud or only as “ooh, sexy lady times but will she get with a main cast member” garbage is hella annoying.
Sadly, the representation we get in episodic or long-form media is: 1) One-off character who probably dies/is revealed to be evil/murderous, 2) character who’s got all the signs of being trans but the creator goes out of their way to emphasize that they’re not even a little trans [bonus points if the creator is super gross about i] (Shiek/Zelda), 3) one-off joke character to make the standard male character’s masculinity is threatened/called into question by sleeping with a trans woman and now he must make a “comedic” show of how disgusted he is by this revelation.
SPOILERS in this comment, for Freaks and Geeks
Not trans, but a different unrepresented gender minority: Do you remember the intersex girlfriend-character on Freaks & Geeks? That is the sole representation I’ve ever seen of an intersex person on TV, but hey, an actually-positive one! She was consistently presented as thoroughly appealing, especially for her sense of humour, and a romantic relationship with her was set up as the happy ending.
(The show never actually said the word ‘intersex’ or ‘assigned female at birth’, but she thoroughly described what it meant to her, so I think this was to highlight that the characters knew no words for what was going on.)
I haven’t yet, but there’s an intersex character in the current TV show “Faking It”.
And occasionally there’s a decent character that just makes you weep for finally seeing representation (I’m a big fan of Nomi from Sense8).
I don’t consume much mass media, but I can’t think of a single positive representation of a trans person in there. Bleh. Any suggestions?
–hah, you answered my question before I’d even asked it, thanks
also I recommend Freaks and Geeks, it’s about being an outsider in high school in the 90s, with fun characters and snappy writing.
I wonder if Marvel comics count as episodic/long term? Because holy crap Loki and Young Avengers. And it’s not just one run, too – different writers seem to pick this up and run with it in their own ways. And I’m not talking about The Gay Couple, I’m talking about “Am I the only straight person here? – Nah, Princess, I’ve seen the way you look at me, you’re not that straight either” and “my child who is both son and daughter” and just. Mmm. More. More. More.
I still like Supernatural, but I’m also really tired of the baiting, and related …issues… Have kicked that all-in enjoyment to the curb for me. Can’t get into the show like before again. (season ten spoiler, so I don’t want to get specific)
Yeah, I liked the way it mirrored real life like that.
And ditto on all the stuff about House and other shows. The ones with relatable such characters who get to be people and heroes, those shows are few.
The baiting is bad in a lot of anime, too. (I like Tiger & Bunny though, and Key the Metal Idol – both unconfirmed / ambiguous relationships but to my eye, really obvious. And part of a bigger plot.)
I didn’t get to say it earlier so I’ll say it now.
I didn’t know Carla was trans. I know that’s the point. I’m glad that she’s happy in her body.
Joyce’s Parents: to their local pastor: She’s a wiittch! Can we burn her?
turned me into a newt etc.
And now for something completely different:
-jump cut to next set of unhappy characters-
She does weigh as much as a duck…
Monty Python and the Holy Grail reference?
That’s a fair cop. But does she know the wing speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
African or European?
Bread goes in, toast comes out.
Can’t explain that.
Well if a scientist can’t explain it, it really must be magic.
Quoting Robot Chicken Darth Vader: “That is pretty wizard.”
Scientists spend most of their time poking around with stuff they can’t explain, like “how do these separate theories work together”, “how does this newly identified not fully characterized phenomena work” or “where do grant money come from”.
I can answer the last one, it’s faeries.
Find the right incantation to put on your app and the Grant Faeries will visit you?
“Have you left some milk for the fairies? We need this project to continue for another year.”
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not “Eureka” but “That’s funny…” —Isaac Asimov
<3
turned me into a newt etc.
And now for something completely different:
-jump cut to next set of characters-
One of these days, comments, I’ll figure out how to use you properly without making accidental duplicates or broken links.
One of these days….
Two things come from today’s strip:
Firstly, Walky clearly is so unused to perceiving the unspoken that he has a difficult time imagining anyone else could do it. For example, he never expected Joyce to notice and maybe even worry about all that red ink on his test papers when she passes them to him.
Yeah, she should have respected his privacy but, you know something? If she can needle him into taking action about his academic problems, he’ll end up thanking her for being nosey.
Secondly, we’ve learned that Carla is so basically weird that no-one else will question her bunny-hopping down the hall on a pair of busted roller-skates.
Weirdness is a great for defense. See Dina’s early comic about how being the “dinosaur chick” spared her some of the usual homophobia people get. It also makes you disarmingly silly, like, look at me goofy little marginalized group member, please don’t interpret me as a threat to your social order you “need” to murder with fire.
That is pretty relateable.
Oh dear, Walky’s secret shame is out. Joyce know his dirty secret and uses it to… gently nudge him in the right direction and give him advice without outing him or trying to cohere him.
Nice contrast to Mary.
Build a bridge out of ‘er!
First he needs to make the foundation, so that she doesn’t collapse.
Ah, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
So in regards to the recent string of comments-disabling, I don’t think you need to be that scared of your own audience. I mean, I get that people will say things you don’t agree with, that should be expected, but that’s not something to be afraid of. Hearing contrary opinions is how we grow as people, and open ourselves up to new views and ways of thinking. Yeah, a lot of them can seem very outlandish and against our core beliefs, but doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing shouldn’t be the go-to answer.
I don’t agree with a lot of the views posted in the comments, or every view pushed in the comic itself, but I stick around anyway. It’s interesting to see other views on things, and the ways people think and express themselves. I surmise that hearing contrary opinions on transgender individuals is the thing either you don’t want to see, and I get that it’s a touchy subject, but I do think it’s a good thing to have talked about.
Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there. Keep up the good work and such.
You’re barking up the wrong tree entirely. Willis isn’t scared of discussion or contrary opinions (hah! hahaha… oh man, I read his tumblr). The comments were closed because (a) he has two new babies to take care of and doesn’t have as much time or energy as normal, and (b) the reason (a) is a factor is that these topics tend to be extremely sensitive and hurtful for real-life people affected by the real-life issues raised. It’s not just an academic discussion.
Or, in his own words, here’s the reason.
*roll eyes*
You’ve got us dead to rights. We, trans people aren’t interested in hearing “contrary” opinions on the humanity of trans people largely because of our fear of personal growth.
Why, after my last encounter with a “gender critical” TERF, wherein she told my family that I was delusional and needed reparative therapy and has since helped “educate” them to the point where I am fully disowned from said family, I feel so much stronger.
I’m sure if a bunch of equally helpful people flooded the comment sections on posts like the last one which hit so hard as to put me and others in a majorly vulnerable state, thus depriving me of my usual layers of armor for dealing with such things, I’d be so helped that I’d be so very grateful for all the “growth” opportunities I would have received.
Bob damn it, if I only had a dollar for every time someone tried to argue that putting up with intensely dehumanizing statements reminiscent of recent trauma somehow made one stronger.
Also, side note, I find it eminently illuminating how frequently dominant group members assume that marginalized group members are as ignorant about dominant culture and opinions as dominant group members.
Cause, we’re actually not. You can’t be a marginalized group member in society and not get hit with all manner of dehumanizing ugliness, seeing just what dominant groups often think of us, or how dominant society works and operates. It’s the sole focus of our media, our culture, and our public discussions. It’s normalized and ever-present. It’s impossible for us not to have heard the “contrary” views to our humanity a million and a half times before, because it is the background radiation of every hate campaign we have ever withstood and every shitty interaction in society.
But, it’s understandable in a way too, for dominant group members to believe it.
Because it’s comforting.
Because dominant group members don’t have to know minority life experiences, can remain in ignorance all their lives and need to be carefully taught. They don’t get to learn that minority life experiences exist unless someone hits them with “contrary” knowledge.
And that’s after a lifetime of being told one’s viewpoints are the smartest and most valid. So it’s comforting to imagine that the marginalized “other” is similarly ignorant of your lifestyle and “viewpoints” on their humanity.
Because then it’s not a matter of privilege and ignorance but a nice happy kumbyah where no one really needs to be “challenged” per se or “grow” in hard and scary ways, and instead we can just dialogue about how those marginalized people are just too sensitive to hear “contrary” opinions unlike us.
Not to disrupt your beautifully-made point, but — what’s a TERF?
Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. (Link is just to Google, I don’t trust my knowledge enough to pick the ‘right’ result to link to.)
Oh bugger, let me try that link again.
The first link on that isn’t that bad a run-down of the mentality and how long its been floating around:
http://www.transadvocate.com/you-might-be-a-terf-if_n_10226.htm
Thanks. (Should probably explain – I understand the term but, having not been on the receiving end myself, didn’t want to accidentally link directly to something that seemed right but had some non-obvious problems.)
No, it’s a good idea with things like this to be hesitant to click the first link, because groups like the TERFs like to search-engine optimize articles for any trans subject with hateful BS about how all trans people are evil so sometimes that’s near the top of a lot of searches.
CONTENT WARNING: Massive ugly transphobia
Trans-exclusionary radical feminists. Basically, professional transphobes who have this whole elaborate conspiracy theory about how “men” are secretly becoming incredibly socially powerless trans women in order to sneak into women’s only spaces and rape everyone/force all women everywhere to sleep with individuals with penises.
It’d be rolling one’s eyes so hard they skip across the floor worthy if they didn’t tend to express their hatred by finding young, often vulnerable trans girls online, group harassing them, outing them to dangerous individuals, slamming them constantly with their dead name, and trying to drive them to suicide.
My TERF was the easy mode of all that settling for the aforementioned “trans is a delusion, reparative therapy would cure it” BS and “educating” my family in all manner of ignorant ass conspiracy theories about our “evil” and she still fucked my life up and good.
I don’t know how things are in the US. I think it basically started out with the fear of the gender stereotypes being enforced by having people transition (at least that’s a point Janice Raymond made in Transsexual Empire, yeah, I know, bad book), i.e. that with transitioning available, the socially accepted norms for women’s behavior would become stricter again as trans women had to conform to ridiculously old-fashioned performances of femininity to be allowed to transition (at the time that book was written, sometimes in the 1970ties or early 80ties).
The fear of the invasion of women’s spaces was there, is there, and has to do with the facts that not only if I have to take someone’s word for their gender identity, there will be jerks who just do it as a joke, but worse, even asking in itself already is considered rude, so how am I supposed to protect the women’s space? Unfortunately, going by ‘Is around women I know’ or ‘seen her in here before’ only works for regulars and excludes the most vulnerable.
The other fact is that for some people, the experience of violence is strongly associated with the male sex and with the combination of being asked to ignore your own perception ( of the gender of person in front of you) this is a really strong trigger.
Point is: People will sometimes be afraid of trans people. Their fear doesn’t make them transphobes, but what they do to deal with it might.
Don’t ask people not to be afraid of trans people. Fear is a feeling like any other. It’s there or not, not something you decide to have or not. But how you act, that’s a decision!
(Just in case this wasn’t clear already: It is not the job of any trans person to do something about such fears or point out that they themselves are nice, harmless or whatever. Why should they?)
TERF conspiracies aside, my wife has actually, factually dealt with Gender-essentialist Trans activists. It is, or at least was, seriously and honestly a thing. But most people can’t name them, least of all TERFs, so I doubt it’s really motivating them that much. I mean, convenient smokescreen, but still.
As far as people lying about their gender identity to get into women’s spaces… not gonna happen anywhere where you don’t have to take them at their word anyway (IE the internet). For all the talk about how it’s totes going to happen, it genuinely doesn’t. The fear might be better grounded if trans people weren’t reviled, but in the USA as it exists? It’s a fairy song of a fear, it’s like being scared a reverse KKK might be started. And TERFs complain about trans men too, which if this were ACTUALLY why, you wouldn’t see. TERFs might be a small issue on a systemic level for trans women, but they’re still complete bastards who hurt a lot of trans women personally, they’re just not our final boss (That’s the general public). And I’ve never heard of it in places where Trans women don’t have to fear for their lives, but the fact that they’re not as cissexist means it wouldn’t necessarily be a huge coup to catch the like, one guy or gal that does it.
And yes, that fear is on some level, cissexist, although it’s true that that is most obvious when they act on it. If they can work past it, I don’t really care, either. But even if it’s associated with massive triggers, and I would not consider it blameworthy in that instance, it is still cissexist. These ideas don’t stop being harmful to a large group of people even if I wouldn’t get mad at you for having them. It’s like saying it’s not racist to fear black men extra because a black person assaulted you – to the extent it is true, it is true because the most important thing is actions, but it’s still a racist fear.
All of this.
Also, yeah, trans people thanks to the Harry-Benjamin standards have been historically forced into parodies of masculinity or femininity in order to access medical care which often leads to some dumbass ideas, but that’s on the cis gatekeepers rather than the trans people themselves just trying to access medical care they need.
And yeah, gender-essentialist trans people exist and I’ve run into at least one. Most of the time, they’re mostly about being shitty to non-binary trans people and trying to enforce a “tru trans” mentality.
Also the invasion thing? Super transphobic no matter how you slice it. Any time you think that a minority group is going to “secretly” invade a space, you’re being bigoted in some manner whether it is fears that women are going to “invade” the male spaces and ruin them, fears that latin@s are going to “invade” America and ruin them, or whether trans women are going to “invade” women’s only spaces and ruin them.
And it’s also garbage, because much like the “person pretending to be trans to molest people in the bathroom” thing, it doesn’t actually happen. If a man wants to ruin a woman’s only space, he doesn’t need to put on an outfit and most sexist men that would ruin said spaces often has massive amounts of insecurity surrounding anything that even resembles the “feminine”. They’re way more likely to just burst in and be a complete ass or catcall or jeer from the sidelines rather than concoct some elaborate disguising oneself as a trans woman to… what exactly? plan.
But the conspiracy theory lives on, because once someone’s decided to hate a minority group, you really need a manufactured reason that makes them the “real instigators” who must be stopped (see why groups like the Video Game thing that shall not be named make elaborate theories on why people who criticize sexism in video games are part of a giant movement to ban video games forever and otherwise ruin everything).
Actually, I don’t get this “invading bathrooms”- stuff. In a women’s space or even just an ordinary women’s rest room, I usually have stalls, so WTF?
The fear of suberversion of women’s spaces is a different kettle of fish.
I’m not into conspiracy theories, so I think the idea of “undercover men” in feminist political groups rather hilarious. It is always was a sound strategy of people in power to pit their critics against each other, though, so I would look their way to the source of these ideas (Russian media are stirring up Russian-speaking Germans against refugees right now with a story of a (Russian-speaking, naturally) girl that was allegedly raped, though the German police state that there is no indication this actually happened – to me, that is the same kind of story).
Cis- women spaces, trans-inclusive women’s spaces, queer spaces and het spaces all have their own feels and come with ideas of their level of security, freedom and things that are possible there. For some Cis-women, because of their history, some freedom is lost when the space is open for trans people. So we have two minority groups competing for resources because they seem to be mutually exclusive and it’s not like women’s spaces are that many to begin with.
It’s a real bummer that this leads to infighting instead helping each other out.
BTW: My reaction to some trans women used to be on the level of Joyce’s to the harmless guy in the escalator here. Even if had known them for some time, if my perception of male/female switched repeatedly, I had panic attacks. I knew it wasn’t their fault, still there wasn’t anything I could do and the idea of them being in all women’s spaces was totally terrifying because that reduced my public safe spaces to zero. It got better after I managed to deal more with my trauma, but I still remember how unsolvable this all was 20 years ago. And even then, the scene in “better than chocolate” where the trans women is attacked in the women’s bathroom just because she was there was totally shocking to me – and it may have been one of the moments where I realized that trans women may have more factual reason to be afraid of me then vice-versa even though it collided with my world-view that women are not physically violent towards people who have not already physically attacked them. (taking about skewed world views….)
So, um…I wrote a book about a teen transgirl (Thundercracker is a terrible influence on me). Towards the end, the main character, Veronica, uses the girl’s bathroom to pee and to re-apply her make-up because she’s at a school dance with her girlfriend.
In a later scene, school officials are discussing changes to the rules for dances to make it more gender inclusive and I had a character make the same arguments that TERFs make against trans women.
My editor, a mother of three boys, got really angry at this character and didn’t get the bathroom as safe spaces argument at all. I think she thought I was pulling this from my fusion cannon. From her perspective, a bathroom was just a place to pee and wash-up. She understood the earlier scene, after spending the whole book only using single-occupancy bathrooms, that using a more public one would be nerve-racking. But this idea of bathroom as some kind of sacred space didn’t sound like anything a real person would say.
She also didn’t know that a high school would have specific rules against cross-dressing, or that they would be used to inform cissexist norms. She was a great editor, but it was weird when I got these notes about TERF arguments and HS rules. Unfortunately, there really are people like that. And they don’t all sound like Donald Trump.
I spend so much time around this stuff, I forget that others may experience hesitation that anyone’s beliefs could be like that.
MASSIVE TRANSPHOBIA CONTINUED
TERFs also think that trans men are women who’ve been socialized into hating themselves so badly that the only way they can feel good about themselves is to “pretend” to be men. Hence why a lot of TERFs will hang out with trans men, because they feel that by socializing with supportive women, the trans men will be able to “reconnect with their true gender” and stop being trans. This is why so much of their language focuses on “women born women” and whatever. I’ve been told as much in so many words (after I was blindsided by TERFy hatred coming out of the mouth of someone I knew in meatspace and asked her why she felt that way… and yeah that friendship ended pretty quickly after that).
And a lot of them engage in harassment and malicious outing of trans people, filing of nuisance suits intended to silence trans people and their allies, and trying to harass trans people into suicide (such as the especially hateful One Who Will Not Be Named because saying her name on the internet in a discussion on trans rights is like putting up the fucking bat-signal for transphobic bigotry and harassment and no I will not put the trans people here through that but please just take my word for it that she is weirdly obsessive about using her wealth and power to make trans people’s lives a living hell).
But yeah. Fuck TERFs.
Oh yeah, the weird paternalism they show towards trans men is gross as all hell. Really, everything to do with them is pretty darn gross which I suppose is true of any dedicated bigot movement.
I am happily baffled at how you keep putting words to reactions I feel but can’t piece together into a coherent message. That was just so
It was like, like a tangled knot of thoughts in me just untied. (Thank you; that saves me a lot of precious “batteries”.)
Cereberus frequently seems to just take the entire jumbled mass of arguments and feelings I have in my head but can’t articulate and then arranges them into a coherent and well constructed essay.
Aw thanks.
Exactly. (Now you did it too! That was just what I meant, but more articulate.)
My post wasn’t aimed at trans people, more at Willis himself (I don’t follow his Tumblr), but it does apply to pretty much everyone I suppose. I firmly believe that communication is the method to defeating issues of equality and other alike social issues.
I’m sorry you feel burdened by the wealth of opinions on the matter, but I do think it is a necessary evil if we want things to improve. Improvement is a slow process, of course. You might see things get a little better decades at a time, much like gender equality, racism, and so on. These are all ongoing battles, but things do get better with time. Unfortunately, progress on these matters is quite slow.
That being said, I’m already seeing some compelling discussion here, I’m pleased to see people voicing their thoughts.
Man, fuck you. “I’m sorry you feel burdened by the wealth of opinions on the matter” when the matter is THE HUMANITY OF A FUCKING PERSON, you condescending jizzstain.
Yes, I am fucking burdened by the wealth of people telling me I am an abomination and advocating not just for denying me basic medical treatment but for subjecting me and people like me to psychological torture. We are literally endangered by their “opinions” and just because it all seems like an academic issue to you doesn’t mean it is. Get some perspective and empathy dude you sorely need it.
Some of us aren’t particularly interested in defeating equality, though.
(Hate speech isn’t a “dissenting opinion,” btw)
Yeah, Freudian slip there.
Heh.
And also, yeah, communication is, sadly, an important part of education and outreach. It’s how the bigoted and the merely privileged get educated about the real life experiences of marginalized group members.
But, it’s actually a favor that the marginalized group members are doing for the ignorant of the world, not our actual literal jobs. We’re allowed to burn out on that endless cycle of withstanding endless reiterations of the same “argument” to speak on behalf of our humanity and we’re allowed to check out and that doesn’t mean we’re “scared of opinions”.
It means that we’re not literally enslaved to this cycle and we get to be just human beings sometimes without engaging with some bad faith a-hole with a stick up their butt about how super ultra mega special their hackneyed opinion is.
A hackneyed opinion I note that they’ve neglected to share on behalf of the “conversation” because he knows it’s bigoted, tired, and will get him cannon-tossed out of here.
Cerberus: re your 1st paragraph, you do hella satire when you let yourself–and all the more potent for being rarely used.
You might have a point if the subject of disagreement was, say, knitting or jam-making or beekeeping. Those are topics where differing points of view are useful, because you may learn something you didn’t know! But when the topic is whether or not lgbt people are deserving of respect and compassion, well, there’s only one right answer. And we don’t need a whole bunch of people being wrong at us, that’s silly.
Or if there was an actual shortage of places you could go to find harsh opinions about LGB & especially T issues. There is value in engaging with even bigoted assholes. They have to learn somehow. But the value isn’t unlimited and that place doesn’t have to be here.
There are plenty of places for that to happen. It’s still, sadly, a very mainstream opinion.
Yeah, seriously. Like, I know the dominant group members of the world have it in their heads that their special snowflake of an opinion will be the first time a marginalized group member will ever hear such a cogent and nuanced “opinion”, but, well… no. No, it’s not.
If you grow up marginalized in society, you’ve heard every bigoted “argument” a million and a half times to the point where you could recite them in your sleep. Those opinions that feel so fresh and so unique to the little bigot holding them has been something we’ve engaged with so long we could practically set up an auto-answer for them.
And that’s exhausting to engage with. Because at the center of it all is an unspoken assumption that it is on the marginalized person to defend their humanity. That they must engage with the ignorant, because to do otherwise is to cede that they are not a human. And that’s all manner of garbage.
So yeah, sorry Darth Bumpkin, you and your opinions just ain’t all that special and we don’t really need to hear them. We’ve already dealt with that shit and gotten the free shirt ages ago.
While I partially agree with you (On the “comments shouldn’t be disabled just because of contradictory opinions” matter), you have to realize that this topic brings out the worst people sometimes. Back when I moderated a political discussion board, it never failed that the gender/race issues threads would be the one with the trolls making personal attacks and blatantly not caring about the forum rules. Even people you’d see calmly discussing other topics would go over the line sometimes in those threads. I only assume that would be the same here.
Now add to this the fact that only one person moderates these comments, and has otherwise been occupied with family matters lately. If this was a thread on that forum, it’d be one that pretty much needed a mod to check on it every 10 minutes, if not more. It’s completely reasonable to expect the trolls to come out in force in this situation. In that case, it’s perfectly reasonable to disable the comments. Hell, I know there’s times when I wanted to do that in the past.
Oh hey, another person quoting what is ultimately Noted Dead White Man John Stuart Mills’ opinion on ‘dissent’. Yeah, the whole theory can fuck itself. Even if, in principle, there was value in listening to someone say people aren’t human, you don’t gotta worry about it, YOU’LL KNOW. You’ll know this is a thing people say, still. I mean, there isn’t anything of value in that, and it’s pretty much 90% of what people ultimately have to say about trans people, but also, you’ll already know. But really, there isn’t any ACTUAL value in this.
Not that it matters to Willis turning off the comments. I don’t think it hurts him too much to see this shit, but it sure as hell hurts a good chunk of his readership.
Ew. That’s all I needed to see. *hides/ignores rest of thread*
Reading the comments section from the bottom up has its advantages.
Bigots trying to re-frame bigotry as “contrary opinions” aren’t as subtle or as slick as they think they are.
You’re pretending not to know anything about the discussion–congratulations, you have demonstrated that your “contrary opinions” would be of no value, even if that’s what you were actually presenting.
If it’s just a contrary opinion, then it deserves equal time and “fair” treatment where we all decide at the end of the day that the issue is “controversial” and the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.
Oh, Bob in Himmel, has there been anything so poisonous to political discourse than the fetishization of the moderate and the viewpoint that there’s always two equal sides to every “debate”.
Like, no, sometimes there is no “other side” and propping it up as equal does real harm (see climate change denialists treated as equal to scientists).
Things like the humanity of trans people are one of those instances.
It’s particularly insidious from an intellectual point of view because it makes staking out the most extreme ground the best tactic, since that just moves the middle farther towards your side.
Which is what bigot groups have been doing for a long while now. Oh, you say you’re human beings who would like human rights everyone else takes for granted? Well, we say that you are literally Satan and will devour our brains with your laser-eyes, so the truth is clearly in the middle where your whole existence is “controversial” and “political”.
if anyone would like the technical term for this (to use, look up, etc), it’s “moving the Overton Window”.
There’s always (at least) two sides it’s just that frequently enough those sides are the right side and the wrong side.
RationalWiki has a good entry on the Balance fallacy, particularly as propagated by media outlets. The assumption that all positions on an issue deserve “equal time,” even if some of those positions are hatemongering, completely without factual basis, or both, has poisoned public discourse.
Willis closed the comments because 1) he feared (not without good reason) that assholes would say horrible things about trans people, and 2) he doesn’t have time to constantly moderate the comments, what with being a father of infant twins.
Unless you think that trans people have something valuable to learn from reading the same insulting, de-humanizing bullshit they’ve already seen and heard countless times, you should just drop this.
Well, you should drop it either way, but you’d hopefully feel better doing so if you understand why you should.
Man, I thought Walky and Dorothy had arranged a booty call and Walky was wondering how Joyce knew about it. Good thing I read the comments. I’m sleepy.
I know it’s rude to ask real trans people this, but Carla is fictional so the question might be okay (like it’s to find out more about her rather than morbid curiosity about the personal life of a stranger)
Has Carla had surgery? Is she taking hormones or androgen blockers?
Given that this is Indiana, I think the administration wouldn’t allow her in the girl’s dorm unless she had the gender reaffirmation surgery, since some of the proposed “bathroom laws” have the same stipulation and in states that do allow trans people to change their driver’s licences usually have a similar rule even outside of the USA.
If she has, I’m so curious as to how she paid for it; especially since the USA is notorious for making all surgeries needlessly expensive.
She’s a college student… maybe her parents are really supportive?
**in places where trans people are allowed to change their driver’s licenses even outside the USA.
It’s never been so much as hinted at, yes or no, in-comic or out. The point being… well, that it’s beside the point. (I get that you’re asking from the wiki article perspective.)
Supposedly her parents are rich and supportive:
http://itswalky.tumblr.com/search/Johnny+Five+Carla
Also, Bloomington apparently has a non-discrimination policy that includes gender identity, so it’s probably more willing to follow actually decent protocol for treatment of trans people rather than holding up the bullshit gatekeeping of things like bottom surgery.
I’d imagine she’s probably on at least blockers and has been for a bit, and I imagine probably HRT, simply because that tends to be important to a number of people’s personal transition pathway.
Beyond that, we’ll know if it ever becomes relevant to the plot, but otherwise, it’s not really that relevant to her life experiences in comic and it’s kinda none of our business.
Oh, I can see her HRT status being very relevant to the plot – After all, what would be a better way to unmask an interloper (in Mary’s eyes) than to take away what lets that interloper hide?
God, I feel gross typing that, but it’s a natural escalation.
I can see that as a possibility and I actually felt a wave of coldness and fear at the very thought of it. My meds are my lifeline and the thought of someone maliciously taking them is all sorts of bad though that would not at all be outside Mary’s character.
This is one of the reasons for my question, since Carla’s access to medication may come into play in this story
I would imagine Carla is very careful with whatever meds she might be taking. The last thing you want, even without someone like Mary around, is someone seeing them and thinking they might be something that can get you high.
Yeah, but if Mary knows any amount about it she’d try and find a way to look, or even if she broke in and searched Carla’s room as part of a harassment campaign, she might find the meds and take them not knowing what they were. And it’s not like, from her view, Ruth can stop her.
I kind of hope Mary gets caught doing something like that because stealing medication is like ten kinds of illegal. It would get her expelled and possibly arrested.
That would be unbelievably stupid of Mary since the only thing stopping Carla from doing something about this situation is that she doesn’t want Mary to broadcast the fact she’s transgender to everyone, and Ruth would be forced to do something about a student having their medicine stolen. Keeping to blackmail and verbal harassment makes it a lot harder to touch her.
It’s rude to inquire about anyone’s genitals, unless they bring it up, Carla has not mentioned them in comic, so I guess Willis doesn’t wanna talk about it
I think that last sentence is a silly assumption to make; Carla being trans only came up explicitly the day before yesterday. To assume every single aspect of her experience would’ve been mentioned by now if it was ever gonna be is weird.
But that said, people’s genitals are yeah a rude thing to ask about just because you’re curious. :\ And doing it to a fictional character under the pretense that it’ll be safe to sate that curiosity *because she’s fictional* ignores how much your question is going to remind trans readers of every time they’ve been accosted for the sake of exactly that same “curiosity”, at its most benign.
Also, why isn’t this a private message to Willis? He’s the only one who would know, and asking him privately would at least spare trans readers. :\
I don’t think I can be rude to Carla because she’s not real, I’m sorry if I was rude to you or any other person who gets rude personal questions from strangers.
Personally I saw it as a relevant question in the way that people discuss mentally illness and suggest therapy/medications in the comics about Amber and Ruth. It would be rude to talk a real mentally ill person that way, but Ruth and Amber are fictional and they can’t see the discussion threads dissecting their personal lives.
As for messaging Willis directly… is that possible from this website? Could you tell me how? If it can only be done from tumblr, I’m not going to make a tumblr just to ask him questions and he would probably delete my question anyway because nothing screams troll like empty blog made the same day.
He has a twitter account as well.
I only ask because Carla is fictional, I’d never ask a real trans person unless they brought up the subject first in conversation.
But Carla is fictional, and this is a comic where we know quite a few personal things about the fictional characters’ sex lives, how they lost their virginity, their hidden (closeted) sexuality es and their mental illnesses that they reveal to no one else. If these people were real it would be rude of us to know and ask for these details as well.
There are quite a few states with large populations that allow for document updates (birth certificate, DL) without surgeries.
To get my driver’s license updated, all I had to do was bring in a letter from my therapist (for the gender) and an official copy of the name change court order.
To correct my birth certificate (which provides a new certificate, not a “modified” one), all I needed was the court order and another court order to correct the gender. To get the court order, all I needed was a doctor’s note stating that I had completed my transition – and the rules to get that letter don’t include surgery requirements.
Which is good, since I likely will never be able to have bottom surgery – I have a completely separate issue that (in the eyes of at least 5 surgeons now) makes the risks “too high”.
I’ve been loving this storyline. Well, not loving, but.. well, I’d been thinking just the day before Mary “went there” that I was surprised she HADN’T gone there, given how conservative and evil she’s been shown to be. Even non-evil conservatives will go there.
Wow that’s really cool! I’m happy you were not required to meet an arbitrary standard in your state to be able to change your documents 🙂
I had a friend from Sweden, a supposedly progressive country complain that they have to get bottom surgery and consent to get sterilized before the government will allow any trans person to change their gender in their documentation, which is I think is awful and discriminatory. I’m not overly familiar with USA laws (and I know they vary according to state) but since Indiana is not famous for being progressive, I’d assume they have more stupid arbitrary standards and hoops a person must jump through to change their official documents.
Yeah, Indiana is not particularly progressive in that regard. There’s now a Kochsucker in the state legislature that is trying to get the Alabama law regarding public bathrooms passed into law here. I’ve already started to set some money aside for the legal defense for the time that my son gets arrested for using the “wrong” bathroom, since I know it is coming.
Oh yeah, that:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-indiana-bill-bathroom-transgender-20151224-story.html
Which also gives some context of what Carla likely deals with day to day.
Incidentally, US passports currently allow gender changes with only doctor’s notes as well. There are two different styles of notes; one is temporary (2 year passport) while the other is permanent (10 year passport). So it’s possible in the US to get a passport that doesn’t match your birth certificate or driver’s license. I know one person (in the deep south) who uses her passport as her ID rather than her driver’s license (excepting when driving is involved, of course), simply because it’s the only document she can get that reflects her actual gender.
(That’s likely to change the next time a Republican takes the White House – it’s an Executive branch decision, not a law.)
Given what we’ve seen of the Rep’s so far this election cycle, I have a feeling there probably won’t be one there any time soon.
I’m Ukrainian and it’s always so weird to me when people from US refer to their driver’s license as their main identifying document rather than the passport.
Like… is literally everyone obligated to learn to drive??? Does literally everyone have a driver’s license??? How is it not an optional thing that the majority of population (that can’t afford a car, or only has one in the family and another person already has the license) doesn’t have???
US is fucking weird, man.
The Driver’s license is so standard that IIRC the DMV is in charge of giving out State IDs (which are what you use if you don’t drive, in all probability)
Er, Department of Motor Vehicles.
I had no idea Carla was trans.
Then again I also didn’t know cars could be trans. Or have genders. Or talk.
This has been an eye opening experience for me.
You’re thinking of Shortpacked. She isn’t a car in this comic, just an ordinary human.
I am offended, sir! How DARE you refer to Carla as a ‘normal’ human!!
She is, in fact, quite the awesome human, and I will glare menacingly at anyone who says otherwise!
GOOD DAY sir!
A) It’s ma’am, thank you very much.
B) She is awesome, yes, and I never said she was ‘normal’ as there is no such thing. I said she was ordinary in the sense of not being a sentient car.
I mean, any sapient creature can choose to abide by human gender roles, it’s just not something we need to really deal with RL. Transformers sure as fuck do, as do many fictional species.
Dorothy looks super cute in the third panel! Angel among us
She turned me into a newt!
I got better.
BUILD A BRIDGR OUT ‘A HER!
I’ll bet Joyce weighs as much as a duck!
Third panel made me think Joyce was subtly implying she knows how they spend their “study time together” (banging), given the weird emphasis on some words.
It was subtle?
Dorothy in the same panel clearly knows what Joyce means.
LOL Joyce
a friend of mine just started HRT, so however you ho about this it hits very close to home. Im quite interested in seeing how this goes
As someone who never had to study in grade/middle/high school, can confirm I was up shit creek the second I encountered something I to actually learn.
“…something I had to actually learn” such as typing basic sentences.
Also, I’m trying to think of what Ruthless could have/should have done. In the situation she’s put herself in, the most good she can possibly accomplish is to get one person a light reprimand for making a transphobic comment. The cost of accomplishing that reprimand would be a) her job, and b) Becky’s living situation.
It can be argued that she shouldn’t be concerned with a), especially since her job is only in jeopardy through her own choices. That ignores the fact that her choices are being made under the weight of suicidal depression, but okay. However, b) is kind of a problem. Becky’s living situation is all kinds of against the rules, and definitely not sustainable, but also her dad just came after her with a gun yesterday (today? can’t keep track). This poor kid is still in the process of being deprogrammed. Illegally crashing in your friend’s friend’s dorm room isn’t a permanent solution, but I think it’s probably better in the short term than any of the other options.
Carla has every right to be angry and disgusted, but there’s nothing I can think of that Ruth could do for her that wouldn’t make everything worse.
Well first thing’s first she could have at the very least extricated Carla from that situation instead of just leaving her there alone with Mary. Like not only did she figuratively abandon her she did so literally too.
Toedad attack ocurred on Monday. THis comic takes place the Friday afterward.
Dorothy. Sometimes pressing too much support on someone is as bad as offering none. Learn to read the signs of when to back off.
Just a few moments earlier, and Mary would have had to deal with Joyce. And that would NOT have ended well. For Mary. Too bad.
Honestly, I don’t know how that would have gone. Joyce’s initial reaction to Carla is likely to be ugly. Along the lines of “You’re really a boy?”
Unlike Mary, Joyce’d come around, but it would take a bit. Will. Because that’s coming.
By themselves? Maybe.
While Carla was facing off with Mary? I doubt it.
Mary, early on, served as an illustration for Joyce of the ugly side of an up-til-then unquestioned worldview.
For a moment I thought you were talking about Walkyverse Mary. And I was confused what you meant by that.
I was not.
Yeah that’s something I am worrying about with Joyce. She has decided that it is OK to be gay. Dunno if she has even considered bisexuals, I doubt it.
We hope she will generalize this to deciding it it OK to be trans, but that doesn’t mean she will.
I’m guessing we’ll see a freak out and a complicated emotional growth spurt (with fuckups) when she finds out about her sister.
But what we won’t see is Joyce deliberately using it hurt anyone.
Agreed on both counts. Eyes popping out of her head, probably. Saying ignorant things, absolutely. But not trying to wound.
Come to think of it, I hope that she learns what trans is in front of somebody patient, who is in a headspace to absorb Joyce blurting out something utterly graceless. Not Carla, in particular, who will be reminded of lots of BS, and who won’t(/shouldn’t have to be) patient about hearing it yet again. Dorothy would be ideal, but I think we’re all hoping it’ll be with Jocelyn.
I could be totally making this up or misremembering which character, but didn’t Joyce encounter the possibility of being into more than one gender and go “Oh, that’s silly?”
I think so – IIRC she had that conversation with Becky (who’s had the same reaction)? Billie told Becky she was bi, and so did Sierra; but Sierra was in church at the time so Joyce may or may not have heard too. Sorry, can’t hunt for references right now!
I think you’re thinking of Becky: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/sneaking/
She learned, though.
I don’t remember that with Joyce, but it’s come up with a couple people in the strip. Becky, as SDGlyph said. Also very similar when Danny talked to Dorothy about it.
The first time I remember Joyce hearing about anything like bi was talking to Billie and getting the “everyone tries it” bit.
I can see Joyce saying exactly — in perfect, oblivious innocence, of course.
As I noted further up the page, though, I’m anticipating drama re Jocelyne during Joyce’s family visit. She’s in preview panels (with ?John? in the car, presumably still as “Joshua”) and it just seems too perfectly set up to not be coming.
It’s a good thing Joyce didn’t run into them. She is still not even willing to talk about what happened at the party so Mary probably has a few choice words up her sleeve if Joyce ever challenges her.
Dorothy, you are the only happy person in this hallway.
Maybe she’s a White Court vampire. She feeds on the angst of those around her, and that’s in abundance.
She’s not grokked that Walkie is faking it badly.
I think there may be some angst coming her way for that.
Walky’s secret is out…though I’m pretty sure in her social circles there are people who would take a witch accusation very seriously.
Maaan. I hope Carla gets some coming her way soon
I’ve not read through this yet, but seen the last few days, and… I know you said no-one was dying in DoA, but can you make an exception for Mary? Please? I’ve had to deal with too many people like her and know I will have to deal with too many more in the future.
I’m not sure about it in the case of skating wheels, but a quick wash in nail polish-remover will get rid of glue on most things, but it could also melt and soften the wheels themselves since they’re made of plastic.
Once, I tried to use acetone nail polish remover to get the writing off a plastic vial, to use it for a costume. It very rudely started melting instead. Also: don’t try to put acetone in a styrofoam container. Or try to use latex gloves to protect your hands from it. Yeah…acetone is kinda nasty.
She’d have to re-grease the bearings too. Better to just replace them and keep the wheels, but you’re still talking $10-$100 depending on quality. A fortune by college standards.
This has been suggested. Many times.
Please read previous comment threads.
Oh, gods, it’s going to be the whiteboards all over again, isn’t it?
Carla, you can like…move your legs and walk.
If this happened in my dorm back in college, about the point at which Carla started stomping endlessly outside Mary’s door about a dozen people would’ve stuck their head out their doors and started yelling at her to knock it off. While someone comes up the stairs from downstairs too. Basically, everyone’d be mad at her. I’m not feeling this totally nonexistent reaction by everybody else, really.
I don’t know, I feel like outside of Mary, most the dorm is pretty chill about things. Someone being noisy on a Friday mid afternoon isn’t that big of a deal anyway. I could see Sarah getting mad, but she might not be around at the moment. Joyce has been pretty distant about things all day, and Dorothy is more concerned about Joyce than Carla being Carla.
I’ll be honest, if I was just a random dorm resident who didn’t know anything about Carla and Mary’s fighting, I would be pissed.
Actually, I’d be pissed either way. I’d obviously be MORE pissed at Mary, but that continuous Thump Thump Thumping could potentially drive me to murder. (Or running to the library and staying there until she’s stopped, if you want to be reasonable about it.)
I mean, I’m pretty sure if somebody politely asked Carla to stop, because at this point she would be causing some noise, she would.
When I first started college, the STOMP STOMP STOMP would’ve been enough to drive me to the library, but having now spent a year living next to one of the main entrances and only staircases for my building with …..voluble… suitemates as my only neighbors, well… I’ve grown a thicker skin.
Well. it is a leap year …
But Ruth gdamn and blast yer. I is disappoint.
This outcome was the natural result of Ruth’s management style; rule by fear only works when you’re the scariest thing present – if they can scare you more, they own you.
My regret in this situation is her shittiness is being used to hurt Carla. Nothing else.
Nah.
The outcome was caused by shock, partly because she now knows that Becky (the “perverted vagrant”) is there, and her relationship with Billie is out in the open. If she had faced down Mary, then she could have carried on for a while longer.
Still, Ruth would have had to face up to the contradictions of her situation sooner or later. This way, we have the added bonus of Mary looking a right arsehole into the bargain.
It will be interesting to see how Ruth deals with her situation with Billie ad Becky’s situation. I hope Ruth realises it’s a matter of time before someone else groks to the situation, and I’m pretty sure Mary won’t keep her mouth shut.
Yesterday’s comic was a punch in the gut.
I… kind of feel that it would’ve been less painful if Ruth had just… not cared. But she did. And yet… the victim-blaming. “You should know better.” The non-apology. “You have to understand.”
Mary makes me furious. And in a way, that feels good. It’s an outlet for my anger at the kind of shit she and others like her make people go through.
But Ruth… she was going to do the right thing. She started doing the right thing. And then she freaked out and ran away. And she’s ashamed of it. And I’m still angry, but I don’t have an outlet for it.
But THANK GOD (by which I mean Willis), it was finally explicitly stated in the comic that Carla is trans! Maybe now people will stop being confused about it. (Wishful thinking…)
Ruth did care, but was faced with the choice to give up or have her life as she knows it ruined. She could see Ruth was just trying to save face after essentially running away to lick her wounds.
I’m not entirely sure. Carla’s point about how she was Ruth’s “acceptable losses” made me think that she just figured she was brushed aside by Ruth the same way she almost certainly has before by authority figures who were meant to protect her.
Well, yeah. That’s what Carla thinks. But we know why Ruth backed down, and that wasn’t it. And she tried to give Carla a consolation prize by letting her attack Mary with no consequences.
I do not think Ruth thinks Carla is an acceptable loss. In fact, I agree with the prediction that we’ll next see her at the bottom of a bottle over letting her down.
And it’s actually progress for Ruth. She felt something other than anger and self pity. She feels bad for someone else. Too bad she’s ill equipped to do anything about it due to her depression.
I know that the actual reason is because Ruth is being blackmailed, but to Carla it’s just another example of transphobia directed at her being mitigated. At the least it’s a good sign that Ruth realizes she’s fucked up.
And like, it’s still technically true. Carla is in this situation now because Ruth hasn’t been doing her job. Ruth’s failures end up costing Carla a place where she doesn’t get misgendered by raging assholes.
It’s rather interesting, really.
It almost feels like it’s been planned far in advance.
But that couldn’t be true, could it?
…
Wait, shit, this is a Willis comic, isn’t it?
We’ll survive. — Dorothy.
So that first panel is telling us that the non-evil characters don’t perceive Carla as horrible. She stomps by and then relative quiet returns. Nobody thinks it a big deal. Dorms are like that.
Good point and one that’s easy to miss.
Roller Derby: Carla and Amazi-Girl
confront in a parking lot.
Dorm Hallway: Carla appears to be giving Amazi-Girl the finger in the background of panel three.
Restroom: Carla (in stocking feet) and Amber and kindess in
this strip.
(the dorm hallway) *panel four* — I can’t count, dangit.
As someone who appreciates that sometimes violence does, in fact, solve problems I’m hoping Amber hears what happened and Amazi-girl decides to seek vengeance on Carlas behalf
When I first started reading this comic I thought it was dramedy-type slice of college life which, as someone not from the USA, is always interesting to me
But of the last year or so its certainly changed its focus and I’m learning quite a bit more then I ever knew (or thought of) and I confess a lot of it still goes over my head (I’m not 100% certain that I’m cis or if I just don’t quite get what it means)
But its all good because learning broadens the horizons so keep up the good work Mr Willis
Everything’s broken.
The hell.
We got resources.
slimed
Shit, my power went out in the big snowstorm and I missed two comics.
Huh. In the preview panel for tomorrow, Walky looks legitimately angry. To my knowledge, he’s only ever been truly angry two or three other times in the comic.
I like seeing characters who aren’t usually mad get mad. It adds some interesting depth.
on a scale from one to ten how bad is it that I thought Joyce meant toilet paper for a little bit?
Those STOMPs keep looking to me like they come from Joyce’s feet XD
So, this is probably out of line, but seeing as how all comment sections of the Carla/Mary stand off have been closed, and this comic does include Carla, the revelation that she is trans in this continuity puts the whole interaction into a different light for me, especially the going to the boys side where you belong statement from Mary. I don’t know if it came up earlier, but I honestly didn’t understand why Ruth was so pissed about that statement, or why Carla was shocked, but now I understand.
Also, Walky is going to flunk out unless he gets his shit together. You can only coast so high on natural test-taking ability.
Late as hell but rereading the archives, I stumbled across one more insight as to just why Carla’s mention of acceptable losses would hit Ruth extra hard.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/strike/