Can we please stop defining copyrights by countries? In this day and age, it’s stupid. Either you hold a copyright or you don’t, end of story.
–Hell, a hundred years ago copyrights only applied within the country it was published in; and to anyone outside that country, the copyright didn’t exist. It also used to be for a far shorter period. Although I would probably feel differently about it if I were actually the copyright holder of anything successful, lol.
As somebody who has flirted with creating content, I wholly approve of the idea of replacing copyright by country with universal copyright. No just get China and North Korea to play along and we’ll be set.
The reason for the “different countries” copyrights is that not every country has the same copyright laws. Something you can do with someone else’s work in China isn’t something you can legally do in the US. Thus the need for different copyrights. Different countries also have different time span.
However, will that be enough to make Ruth protect her if Mary threatens to go to her superiors about both that and her relationship with Billie?
Sadly, Mary has blackmail material on Ruth. 🙁
Unless Ruth finds some blackmail material on Mary, too – then they’re all-square as neither would be likely to reveal the other’s secret for fear of having their own revealed too.
Former RA: The hall director would likely attempt to assist Becky, especially if she enrolls in school and would absolutely assist Carla as Mary took the spat too far. Ruth would be fired. No question. Literally, “don’t sleep with the residents” is rule no. 1.
Also, all Mary has to do in this instance is initiate cause for an investigation and whether they think Mary is a total jerk face or not the Resident Manager would likely at least investigate the claim on Ruth and Billie. At best, Billie keeps a tidy home and they don’t find anything easily/quickly and it passes. At worst they find a bunch of stuff that doesn’t belong to Ruth and alcohol bottles. Also, not sure how many camera are in the hall but that could also be used in an investigation. I’m definitely not rooting for Mary, just saying things don’t look good for Ruth either way.
All that to say, I’m sure this whole thing is going to go sideways real quick because that’s the Willis Brand guarantee!
Huh, at my school the rule is just don’t sleep with residents in your jurisdiction, or if a relationship is forming/likely to form, the CL (RA) can be moved to a new jurisdiction.
i was an RA for 4 years and any sleeping with residents in your building was grounds for termination. but i would have been rooting for mary the whole time other then damaging carla’s skates she has been in the right. carla has been a constant shit, Disturbing mary while she was trying to study and endangering all of the people in the hall by skating. ruth is complaining about mary’s language instead of the glaring rule breaking skates and excessive noise disturbance from the jumping. mary’s actions are only affecting carla. carla’s actions are affecting the entire hall and anyone that may be living below. at this point mary should go down to the supervisor for both ruth and carla.
So, I’m not eager for an argument, but both Carla and Mary have some things that need to be addressed. Carla was breaking rules, and that needs to be addressed. Mary; however, can’t go responding to that by slinging slurs or derogatory remarks. That’s not okay and should also be addressed.
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Does she? Is Ruth going “Wh-what?” because she is surprised at what Mary know about that Ruth already knew about, or are there things there that Ruth didn’t know about at all?
The Becky thing is new to her. She knew Mary knew about her and Billie. But the Becky thing? Everyone’s been deliberately hiding Becky from her and Ruth was implied to be hermiting for most of this week. So that’s definitely new information and could put her a little off balance especially given her pride in running a tight ship.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — I think Ruth is/has been fully aware of Becky being in the dorm. Just seeing the difference in Dina over the past week (DoA-time) would be a tip-off (not to mention thatsomeone screaming “I’m a lesbian!!” in the lobby at the top of her lungsisn’t particularly easy to overlook). It’s just that, as I implied before, that up to now dealing with Becky was not worth the time or the effort. However, now that Mary is forcing the issue….
I know it really seems like that, but I was an RA and it’s not easy to keep tabs on everybody’s life unless you’re actively snooping, which Ruth clearly doesn’t care enough to do even if it were in her job description. My job was just to report on any events I may happen to witness that might be affecting any of my resident’s wellbeing and resolve conflicts. Both of which I think I rarely if ever actually did.
The RA’s at my school mostly take a “if I don’t see it and no-one complains a lot, it didn’t happen” attitude. Otherwise there is a butt-ton of paperwork for the RA and the housing to do. No-one likes paperwork.
That said, I don’t think Mary has as much bargaining power as she thinks. A lot of what she said is stuck in “She said, she said” territory with no real proof and most likely no-one to back her up with her claims. And colleges take hate speech very seriously. So going there with the report that she has been harassing a trans student (who the school has obviously taken steps to make sure she feels safe) will make anything she says seem like an attempt to discredit. Said harassed student also filing a report and no-one in the dorm verifying that Becky is living there means Mary is just a bongo without any boing.
Agreed. Honestly, everything else that’s been happening around Ruth has nothing on the previous vandalisation of said cheerleader’s belongings. In her own words, they love her down there. Ruth is extremely good at poker facing legitimate complaints, complaints much more damning than anything Mary pulls out of her ass. To “walk away” is to admit that these things are an actual issue, so all Ruth really has to do is play it off. If she can do the same in this situation and call Mary’s bluff, then she will be fine. Especially with the hate speech.
And honestly, Mary might be seriously overestimating Ruth’s desperation to keep the job as RA in the first place. Sure, being RA had been Ruth’s sole passion in the beginning, but it seems like her priorities might have changed a bit lately. She’s had more important things on mind. Is keeping the title of RA more important than protecting the actual students, Billie and Carla included? Probably not. So better and more logical/emotional for her to stand her ground.
But the whole hardass-Ruth-the-RA storyline has always been a bit stupid, as RAs don’t really have much power, and have a lot more to lose if it comes down to a real physical confrontation.
Even if Mary didn’t have any dirt on Ruth, Ruth’s threats would still be little more than hot air….
Yes, those arguments are sound and make good points, But you seem to be overlooking a crucial fact. You used logic, everybody knows logic and comics/TV don’t mix.
Yeah, but we all make snap judgements based on complex reasoning. I guess I’m just hoping Ruth will make the right one, and I’m not sure her personality can allow her to walk away anyhow.
In the original Walkyverse Carla was “UltraCar”, a sentient hatchback that decided to move ‘his’ consciousness into a female robot body. I didn’t process it as a trans parallel at the time but I am also somewhat oblivious, and we were dealing with, yanno, a car…
There’s been several indirect hints dropped during this series, too.
1: Carla thinking a penis drawn on her whiteboard was a ‘hate crime’–until she saw that the entire hallway had been hit by the vandal.
2: In her conversation with Sal about joining the roller derby team, Sal says that her extra height would give her an advantage. Carla replies, “There’s a reason for that,” to which Sal responds that it wouldn’t make any difference to them.
There was one other I can’t think of right now, but those are the ones that stick out in my memory.
The comic recently went out of its way to spotlight Becky hiding (being hidden) from Ruth and that Dina looked genuinely scared to see her, so I’m fairly sure we’re meant to infer that she still doesn’t know. Plus there’s drama potential when she finds out that Billie not only knew but is currently letting Becky stay in her room, and hasn’t told Ruth about it.
Mary really does have solid blackmail material and is clearly prepared to use it – I’m waiting to see whether Ruth does a Huck Finn in defence of Carla & Becky (“fuck it, I’ll do the right thing and damn the consequences”, or in Finn’s words, “All right then, I’ll go to Hell”).
“Never show your hand unless you hold all the cards.” Mary doesn’t hold all the cards, but she does have a full house to bluff with. While she is prepared to escalate, escalation could go either way in this case, considering recent events. I’m sure housing knows of Ruth’s underlying issues, which grants her some leeway as long as she continues to keep the peace in her domain.
Mary may not have mentioned it, but she still might know about the booze. Just that there were so many other things she was complaining about that she already had more than enough to cause Ruth some major problems.
I’m no mind reader, but it looks to me like Ruth is thinking “Wow, just, you’re a perfectly awful human being, how do you even justify your own existence to yourself, or is that it, you can’t, you actually hate yourself so much you want to end it all, this is some suicide attempt, you want me to smash your brains in with your own femurs, damnit, my mouth didn’t work that whole time”.
I don’t think Ruth is scared. I think she is surprised. How many people have ever gotten in her face like this, and lived to talk about it?
Mary is in deep shit, she just hasn’t discovered that fact yet.
Nice!! I forgot Becky’s sleeping space is on the line. Oh yeah… She totally called her a pervert too. I hope Ruth doesn’t let Mary get away with these hate speech >:O
I like to think Ratigan wouldn’t care if one of his minions were trans or into mice of the same gender, as long as they did his bidding and avoided the ‘R’ word.
I’m really not used to the idea of “villains” without aspirations (as far as we can see so far) to take over the tri-state areathe worldthe universe Cleveland.
No, no she isn’t. She’s arrogant enough to assume there’s no way any of this could go wrong for her. She’s an idiot who gives proper villainy a bad name.
Carla is legitimately living in the female dorms. Unless someone was particularly clueless, this leaves me thinking that all Ruth needs to do is explain just what Mary said to Carla to make anything Mary says come across as bigoted bullshit.
It might be bigoted, but they’d still have to kick Becky to the curb (against dorm rules) and would probably kick Ruth out of the RA position and cost her any pay or room comp she’s getting (abuse of authority; authority figures don’t get to have relationships with students). The latter would also likely up Ruth and Billie’s drinking, which would inevitably lead to them getting caught, and facing the repercussions of being caught drinking on a dry campus.
Ruth might lose her job, but I suspect Becky would almost instantaneously acquire a new place to stay from a very friendly and helpful teacher. And if this event leaked out to the media, so soon after the incident with toedad, it would be impossible for the media to not link Mary’s vile behavior to the same kind of extremism that just caused a freaking armed kidnapping.
It’s entirely possible that the backlash from that will cause the university to drop any complaints at all against ruth, just to avoid being caught up in it.
You give university administrations way too much credit, friend. They want to avoid hassles and they want to avoid lawsuits.
1: Becky is gone immediately – having someone staying in the dorms without all the proper paperwork is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
2: Ruth is dismissed from her RA position for violating dry campus rules and for fucking one of the students she is directly responsible for. Depending on university policy, she could be banned from the dorms or even expelled.
3: Billie ends up in similar hot water re: dry campus.
4: Carla prrrrobably comes out okay unless the DOA version of Bart O’Ryan decides to scream about her on his TV show or whatever he’s up to, at which point the university has to put up or shut up on its policy w/r/t trans students in student housing.
It’s far, far more likely that Mary wins, given how conflict-averse university administrators are these days.
SOURCE: i have worked at multiple universities – they will let shit slide until their hand is forced and then they go ballistic on everyone.
Actually, the only person I’m giving credit to is Leslie, who will doubtless extend her home to Becky immediately. I’m assuming the University will take the most media friendly path possible, which isn’t backing the fundamentalist spewing hate speech. Ruth might lose her position, Becky will be quietly encouraged to leave, but in the wake of the toedad incident the university isn’t going to want to present any hint that they might be punishing people for being gay. It doesn’t matter what’s actually going on with Ruth, there are too many hotbuttons in play.
But how long can a non-student legitimately stay with a friend in the dorms? Over a weekend, right? At least? But not much longer. And Becky hasn’t been here that long.
So, Becky stayed with her friend Joyce for a few days, then was going to leave, but decided to visit with her friend Sal a little while first, instead.
I don’t see the problem. 😉 So long as they can claim it with a straight face and stick to it.
Three days in the dorm if a weekend, overnight during the week, period, on our campus – didn’t matter what room you were staying in. It kept couch surfers from befriending a whole floor and bouncing between rooms for extended stays.
When I was in college we had friends stay as long as 2 weeks on our futon or in our extra bed. They weren’t homeless or anything. Just had the time to stay with us that long and hang out with all their other friends on campus as well. Our R.A. knew about it and everything.
hoop: Re: #4, I think it’s more cut-and-dried than that. Carla has already been identified (by Joyce) as having ‘a room of her own for some reason’. Given the obvious housing policy of having people have roommates, and the fact that Ruth obviously was aware of Carla’s trans status (based on her reaction), it’s pretty clear the school already is on the right side of that issue. Mary’s looking at expulsion if this blows up, regardless of what consequences hit the others, and Carla’s in the clear.
Maybe I haven’t spent enough time in a dorm, but I’m really not seeing what part of this couldn’t be solved better by Carla herself going to whoever’s responsible and bypassing Mary’s ridiculous pseudo-blackmail. What, if anything, would be done about it is practically speaking up to the rules and the personal morals of the person in charge, anyway; as far as I know we have no idea whether this Resident Manager is the sort of person to take “resident is bigoted asshole” as a serious complained.
(And honestly, I doubt this will get Mary too far. One of the very few benefits of being self-destructive is that it’s kinda hard to threaten you into not doing the right thing, usually.)
From personal experience, the “nothing to live for” element might be an unreliable indicator for what a person is and isn’t willing to risk. Especially since Ruth is slowly finding something to care about.
Aside from the fact that Carla doesn’t seem the type to go to an authority figure, she would 100% have the RD on her side if she took off the skates, put on regular shoes, took that skates to the RD, and told the RD “Mary destroyed my personal property and made transphobic hate comments toward me.” Mary has no proof that Carla was skating in the halls and Carla has the destroyed skates as evidence.
Yeah, but that first factor will likely trump. Carla does not have any truck with authority figures (probably having been burned by her fair share of them growing up given her background). She’s really not the type to go running to them and expecting them to solve things in any way that’s positive for her.
Sadly if Ruth backs off, a much more likely situation is Carla just eats the transphobia, commits even more strongly to avoiding people, and tries to replace her skates… again.
It’s what I would do. Telling admins and drawing attention could just get you targeted even worse. Best sometimes to keep your head down and count your good fortune to be in the girls’ dorm at all.
What? No. Think of the poor janitor who’d need to clean the blood out of the hall carpet! Rather, how about she says “So you want the biggest deviant in the dorm kicked out right now?” and then defenestrate her.
For what, being a bigot? The max you can prove is that she said something very mean while in an argument with someone who was deliberately antagonizing her and following her around to harass her.
Mary’s a terrible and spiteful person, and it’s human nature to wish ill fortune on her for it, but she hasn’t done anything to earn expulsion in a formal, disciplinary sense. Ironically, she’s the person in the scene who has broken the fewest university rules.
Ruth does not have clean hands, she’s abused her authority as a representative of the university, and believed she could get away with it because she intimidates the other students, while ignoring her real duties. Becky is trespassing on the school property, taking advantage of facilities that she isn’t paying for, which Ruth either didn’t know about or was willing to allow to continue. The fact that Mary is unpleasant doesn’t clean the slate of the bad things Ruth and the others have been getting away with, and just because you like them doesn’t make what they’ve done acceptable.
I’m afraid, esteemed colleague, that you seem to be mixing up “things that are against the rules” and “bad things.”
We do not content that there is nothing wrong with granting accommodations to Becky, an abuse victim. Granted, she should be trying to find a more permanent place to live, and does not appear to be doing so. However, staying with friends for a little when one has nowhere else to go is is not wrong, and most schools allow for guests. (It is possible that she is scamming the cafeteria, but that’s not something that’s in Ruth’s purview. For all she knows, Becky’s friends are paying for her meals.)
It is indeed possible that Ruth could be abusing her authority with Billie, we argue that she has not done so. Ruth terminated her relationship with Billie, and Billie chose of her own free will to return.
Ruth has her problems. We cannot deny this. But her problems are not those that your client has brought forth. They may be against the school’s rules, but we answer to a higher authority.
hah, I wish. I literally go to one of the most trans-friendly schools in the country and when someone tried to start a “trans critical” group on campus they didn’t do shit about it.
Sadly, this. Hate speech may be against the rules and the law of the city, but I’ve not seen a school or city or state yet actually enforce said rules to the point where those who go against it actually worry about social or legal consequences.
If Carla’s parents made a fuss, it could have reverberations or if there was a student protest, but otherwise, Carla is just chalking it up to her regular diet of bullshit and transphobia.
Yeah, Mary hasn’t thought this through. She’s one person, and if a good chunk of her floor decide to screw her, well, it’s her word against 8 people’s about what actually happened. Hell, all it’d take is Roz planting something in her room, Ruth “finding” it, and then all her claims about Ruth being a bad RA come across as sour grapes.
She would’ve made it so Becky left even earlier (and many things would have been much better, except Joyce and Dina probaby not being ready for her, so the things would have started out much worse… I wanna read that fic now shit)
Normally, in this situation, my go-to response is to threaten to rip the person’s balls off and feed them to him… But Mary is female. She has no balls to rip off. Suggestions?
To be precise, in humans, usually the gonads take the form of either testicles, or ovaries. If you can’t threaten to remove the testicles, threatening to forcefully remove the ovaries is roughly an equivalent threat.
On a moral note, I want to say that physical threats are wrong, but…. this is Mary we are talking about…. I wouldn’t mourn her if physical violence was enacted against her.
Hey, if it’s the escalation game you want, why not just go back in time (obviously using a conveniently placed, genius-level briefcase) and make her trans at birth?
…
I’ve been told I’m too good at the escalation game.
Amazi-girl could probably use an outlet. Is she far gone enough to pummel Mary?
…is she lawbound enough for Mary to turn her against the redheads? …Shit.
Willis. I am laying down a demand. Mary needs to DIE. Preferably in a fire of some sort.
I KNEW she was going to do this, but it does not make it any less loathsome. Please.
The happy corner of my mind is picturing Billie walking up behind them in her lingerie (which is the real reason for Ruth’s expression in that last panel) and proceeds to bap Mary over the head with the strapon she bought Ruth.
Mary knows less about Ruth than she thinks she does. She doesn’t know how bad Ruth’s current state is, or that Ruth herself probably can’t predict what she’s going to do.
wait…… oh wow yesterdays comic makes so much more sense now. I am kind of oblivious or maybe I forgot. It never clicked that she might be transgender. I just assumed it was something like “if you are going to act like a boy stay with them” and couldn’t figure out why it was such an extreme reaction.
For those of us that read Shortpacked as well, the hints were there, but for people specifically reading DoA it makes sense that you wouldn’t have known. I think I saw it confirmed somewhere prior to Carla actually having any DoA lines.
Well in my case the friends i have who happen to be transgender I never realized until I was told point blank about it. I’m pretty oblivious about a lot of stuff. *shrug* worse things out there than not realizing stuff like that though.
Well that never clicked as a reason why it could be a hate crime. I just kind of assumed she was over reacting thinking she was targeted specifically instead of everyone being hit.
Because Willis has two baby boys to take care of and doesn’t have the time, will, or energy to sift through transphobic commentary and get rid of it before someone gets hurt.
Well, Mary only gave three reasons there for Ruth being a terrible RA.
1. That Ruth is having lesbian sex.
2. That Ruth is having sex with one of her charges.
3. That Ruth is allowing (or is ignorant of) a non-student to live on school property.
I doubt the Resident Manager will really care about that first one, but the second two are kind of in Terrible RA territory.
Also just adding this in so that no one misunderstands. Mary is being terrible here, but her Terrible RA argument holds water. Of course, allowing a resident to spew transphobic statements at another resident would also be pretty bad form for an RA, so Ruth ain’t gonna let this stand.
It’s not, but it’s one of Mary’s reasons. That’s why I said only the second two are things a Resident Manager would care about. Just because it’s one of the reasons Mary gave doesn’t mean it’s valid.
Really, only the alleged sex with Billie would be a problem for Ruth, but what proof does Mary actually have of that? It would be a case of a bigot’s word against the RA. As far as Becky goes, I think Ruth legitimately thought Becky was Joyce’s friend from a different floor, which is a reasonable assumption.
I… I really hate Mary. Like, a lot. Like, on the same level of “please jump in front of a bus” hate that I harbor for Toedad and Blaine. Maybe even more; those guys are in the hospital and out of the story right now, we’re stuck with Mary.
I… I don’t know how to react to this. I’m just… furious.
That’s the thing. I hate both Blaine and Ross, but they were impulse villains. One big burst of being a dick, then out of the picture after taking it too far and getting themselves hospitalized or arrested (or both). They did a lot of damage in a short time (and Blaine even more through years of off-screen abuse), but their time in comic was brief and terrible before being removed for a long time.
But Mary has been sitting on this for weeks, just waiting for the right moment. She lives a few seconds away from the people she’s hurting, and isn’t likely to take things to the point where she’s thrown in jail or carted off to the hospital for the next several years. (Blackmail beats punches and guns in that regard)
So she definitely warrants more hate than those two. Before, I just thought she was a bit of an asshole. After the last two strips, it’s clear that she’s a BIG problem. One that I don’t see being easily dealt with. The problem that leaves the next day is far less threatening than the one that will be standing over your shoulder for the next several weeks/months.
I’m still hoping that this leads to Ruth losing her job(because she’s an asshole/bully/complete monster) but Mary gets thrown out along the way for creating a hostile environment for her fellow residents. Carla gets promoted to floor manager because she never actually has gotten caught causing trouble, and while I’m wishing, I get a pony.
“complete monster” are strong words. Especially when the justification you give for Mary getting thrown out is “creating a hostile environment for her fellow students” – I’d think that all the lording her moral superiority over people, transphobia, and homophobia are signs that Mary’s quite vile too. If Ruth is, categorically, a bully, what does that make Mary? Not a bully, when she calls a trans student a boy and verbally harasses Ruth for being a gynophile?
Ruth physically and emotionally abused someone she had power over until that person entered into a relationship with her. I mean, Mary’s horrible, but Ruth needed to be fired long ago.
The thing about dropping bombs is that most countries have silos and fleets of their own.
I don’t think Mary is remotely prepared for any effective retaliation.
No, and it won’t be for the reason timemonkey gave. But that also means that Ninja Rick won’t appear in any capacity that contradicts my headcanon, and I have a ready explanation for the fact that he never appears as janitor.
Just sitting there all alone in his office, obliviously proud that his mere presence makes the students so psychologically healthy that they never even need to see him.
And, I believe, we once saw the professor who teaches Danny and Amber’s programming class? He’s the alt-universe version of that guy from Roomies and It’s Walky! who got drafted into SEMME because he broke into their system.
Ruth knew that Mary knew about her and Billie so she had to have expected that one to come up sometime. I don’t even know if Ruth herself knows about Becky living in Billie’s room so I suspect that is what threw Ruth off her game.
At least she will be able to see Windstriker… (Realizes that Mary doesn’t have an equivalent to Windstriker). She has less friends than Miko. That’s impressive.
This. Her whole raison d’etre is that Mary is better than everyone else. That Mary will show herself to win. That Mary will triumph and outshine the deviants and the sinners and prove herself over all.
That Mary will personally win and gloat over that win. It’s why she hold on to information until she can play it to her advantage. It’s why she escalates so intensely when she doesn’t get her way (the transphobia and the glueing of the skates with Carla, the calling Ruth the c-word when she wouldn’t drop everything to solve a non-emergency problem).
The threat itself is bad enough. It’s the fucking language she’s using that makes me see red. Defiling, perverted…it’s dehumanizing and disgusting and Mary is just the fucking worst.
Yup, it’s that proud deliberate ignorance and bigotry that really hammers home that she doesn’t actually view other people as people. They’re just set pieces for Mary to prove how good she is against.
I was thinking something along the lines of a freak automotive accident flipping a truck to punch a bumper right through the wall and Mary’s occupied bed without harming anyone else or their possessions, but I think more mundane comeuppance will be more satisfying if it comes.
Well, here’s where it gets interesting, because how things proceed from here comes entirely down to how self-destructive Ruth is feeling.
Because if she’s in full “fuck it, let me burn and get it over with” mode, then she’ll shut this shit down in a nanosecond though at utterly immense personal cost ending in at minimum, losing her job and possibly being suspended from the school (at maximum, she could face legal consequences for sleeping with one of her charges or the underaged drinking).
But if not, oof, that might actually end worse for her in the long run, because it basically means that Mary will now own her ass and that’s going to come with a humiliating regimen of being her personal servant until eventually she hits the “fuck it, let me burn” mode later.
The thought comes to mind that Mary may not have the leverage she assumes she does. She knows things that are a threat to Ruth, but being an RA Ruth may know things that are a threat to Mary.
Yeah, at the end of the day, what does Mary really have? That Becky’s staying here (bad for Becky) and an accusation of gross misconduct on the part of Ruth (which will trigger an investigation). But she’s also Mary and everyone, even Joyce dislikes her. I’m not sure anyone would be willing to back her up during the investigation and could definitely point to her obsession with queer individuals as backed up by this instance of transphobia.
If she really did pull the trigger, there’s a fair chance that Ruth could get away with her various transgressions, though Billie would have to very quickly move back to her room.
That being said? That would be a ginormous risk and if wrong, the consequences for both Ruth and Billie would be severe. So yeah, it’s a shitty situation all around.
As far as I remember Mary only knows that Billie was in Ruth’s room one morning/afternoon. She didn’t see what happened in the room. For all she actually knows that was an instance of a resident going to talk to her R.A. about something that was bothering her and the R.A. giving her the time of day to listen. Mary is intuitive enough to know that isn’t the case, but can she PROVE anything more?
Ooh, that’s a point. Why would anybody take Mary’s word over Ruth’s? For one, Ruth’s the authority here, and second, Mary doesn’t really have any friends on the floor. I can’t see anyone vouching for her.
I feel bad about relying on an abuse of power to deal with Mary, but I’m not going to be worried too much about her feelings.
As awful as Ruth can be, there’s enough of a decent human being in her that i really hope that she can pull out of that spiral somehow.
mary on the other hand? I really REALLY hope something DESTROYS her over this. The more painful and drawn out it is, the better, because she has just shown what a monster she really is.
I think she’s better off taking Mary to the R.M. for hate speech, and facing the music for the charges against her. The only thing I can see holding her back is that Billie would be hurt as well. However, given their ‘suicide pact’, Billie’s already agreed to go down with the ship, essentially (though, I suppose it would be rude to assume that includes exposing their relationship in order to deal with a misbehaving resident).
Ruth could face legal consequences for sleeping with Billie?
(I’m asking because I genuinely don’t know what the charge is, and I’m curious. This post is overall excellent.)
Sexual Harassment at the least, potentially rape if they want to push it further. It’s due to her station of power over Billie having a potential effect on Billie’s ability to freely consent without potential personal consequences. It’s part of the rules that prohibit staff in general from sleeping with students due to the power imbalance (and why Jason and Penny’s little stunts are hella illegal).
They definitely could. The rape one probably wouldn’t happen. And maybe the Sexual Harassment wouldn’t either, but what Meghan said is true, she’d be super fired and possibly banned from on-campus housing, meaning she could be needing to suddenly come up with a lot of money very quickly.
Unless joe is a student of Penny’s her actions are not even against the rules at all. Questionable? Sure, but that’s it.
Jason’s actions are against the rules, but considering that Sal was the initiator there would be no legal consequences. He would lose his post, however. Once the semester is over, however, he and Sal can do whatever they want as far as IU is concerned (and yes, I was told as much when I went through TA orientation there).
Ruth, like Jason, could lose her job, but unless Billie pressed any charges there would be no legal issues.
Not those specific rules, yes, but there are usually rules in place regarding any staff member, teacher, or TA having sexual relationships with students as a general safeguard against this kind of stuff, even if they don’t have direct charge over that student. Penny, if caught, would definitely lose her position at the least.
Jason not being the instigator would not matter given his position as being directly responsible for Sal’s education and grades. He would be in even bigger trouble. Ruth, ditto, but less so because expectations for students of similar ages isn’t as high as for those who are being trained as teachers (and TAs tend to be PhD students for whom this is treated as training for being labeled ready to teach anywhere). Though Ruth would definitely be out on her ass and probably lose her housing in the process.
Now, given overall school responses to things like sexual assault or sexual harassment, the school would probably try to bury the situation at first until there were multiple complaints or media attention was called, but legally, they’d all be pretty fucked if caught.
Again, I went through this orientation at IU, the school in this webcomic. The rules are a little ambiguous regarding relationships between staff and students, especially for staff who are also students like Penny, Jason, and Ruth. Remember, we are talking about adults here, so unless that student is in some way under that staff member they are not going to act on it. They may frown like hell at it and that may affect them down the line, but they will not fire them over it.
Let me put it to you this way. I, for a brief period of time, was in an open relationship with a student at the school that I was a faculty member for. This is because my wife, who I had been married to for 12 years at the time, started taking classes at the school. She was not allowed to actually enroll in any of my classes, but outside of that there were no issues with the fact that I was involved with a student because at no point in time could that relationship have had any affect, good or bad, on her academic advancement.
So I repeat, unless Joe is a student in Penny’s class (a distinct possibility since it seems to be an entry level math course that all COAS students have to take), she is in the clear.
Jason would get canned and deported over his relationship with Sal.
Ruth would get fired as RA, have to move into a different room (which she has to now pay for), and a new RA would get assigned to the floor (hire Carla!).
Ah, makes sense. I was mostly wondering if there was some law specifically banning relationships with that kind of power imbalance that would apply here automatically (like how the drinking age of 21 automatically criminalises Ruth’s alcohol use), but that is consistent with everything I know.
Billie would probably refuse to press charges though, which would effectively change the consequences from a criminal offense to an administrative one (RA/student relationships being against the rules/code of conduct resulting in Ruth losing her job and probably housing, though the latter could also be a consequence of the alcohol use).
Does what Ruth and Billie are doing break the law? No.
At first I was going to say it depends on whether Billie is 18 or not. Because there is a law in Indiana called “Child Seduction,” which forbids anyone employed by a school from having sex with anyone under them who is over 16 but under 18.
However, the real law has a specific exception: The person must be at least four years older and not a student of the school in question. (Indiana Code – Section 35-42-4-7(b)(3)(D))
So there is no way this can be illegal. Though, of course, that has no bearing on what the school can do.
And of course, Ruth is in fact guilty of assault and intimidation. But so is Mary.
I think it says in the about section that since Joyce comes from a fundie Protestant background she doesn’t have one since that is (and I can personally vouch for this) a very Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) practice.
Protestants still tend to have crosses. What we don’t tend to have are crosses with Jesus still on them. That what’s really more of a Catholic thing. But, at least in the movies, either form of cross seems to work.
(And, yes, there are have been some denominations who make a big deal of this. “Our Jesus is no longer on the Cross. He’s alive!” 🙄 [roll eyes emoji])
As I recall… She was standing in sunlight when she ranted to Joyce about how no one would bother with evil if it wasn’t nice.
Fortunately, most things stop moving once you put a stake through their heart. It’s a wonderful general solution.
So, we put a stake through her heart and if that doesn’t work, we cut her head off.
That covers all the bases.
After ripping out her femurs, so she can’t get away.
If you listen closely, you can hear the hatred for Mary increase at an alarming rate. That and the sound of me burning down the soft serve factories out of sheer anger and a need to express it.
Yeah, yesterday, I thought it just a couple of tit for tit instances of two girls baiting each other, that went WAAAAAAYYYYYYY too far. Today it is obvious Mary has a general hate on for everyone. I assume even even Joyce would fail to meet here exactling “standards.”
This is Mary’s true face.
She has always acted as though she has a right to get her way, and then stoops to any method to get even with those who don’t grant it: insults, harassment, innuendoes, and trying physical injury with the glue.
Today she outdid herself. And think Ruth is going to make her very sorry.
Yup. She gets her way and gets what she wants when she wants it. Otherwise she’ll wait and plot and prepare for a moment when she can escalate to a point that she intimidates or abuses the other person into following her way.
And if someone is a sexual or gender minority, then that just paints an even bigger target on their back, because “those people” are “sinners” and so God will clearly smile on any action that is in opposition to them.
I’m just happy that the automatic gravatars do not seem to include Mary. I’d hate to be stuck with her face on my posts.
(And, yes, I know I could set up my own gravatar. But I don’t like the idea of having the same avatar on every site, and creating new emails has become a huge pain now that everyone asks for your phone number.)
(A well-endowed person you aren’t dating anymore, getting cut off in the middle of a request for testing, and illness or injury for the guy who runs your Dungeons & Dragons-type game, respectively.)
Honestly, Mary’s position here isn’t as strong as she might think.
1: She doesn’t seem to know about the drinking (surely she would’ve mentioned it, probably using terms like ‘boozer’ or ‘lush’ in her little diatribe). This is key.
2: The Becky situation, oddly enough, is solved by the fact that Ruth can actually say honestly that she’d been lied to by an extensive cover-up by several of the residents. The lack of complaints mean it’s not even the usual situation where a boyfriend/girlfriend ‘moves in’ and the roommate has to deal with it–the roomies were invariably cooperating in the violation. So Ruth’s in the clear; Becky will need to go, unless she can be quickly enrolled/transferred to the school, in which case she might be able to move into a room. If not, I suspect Leslie might be able to step in and find someplace for her to stay in town.
3: Speaking of finding housing, the situation with Billie is actually easily addressed. Find a willing cohort on another wing; make a formal request to swap rooms, giving a (heavily) edited account that boils down to, “We know the relationship is against the rules, that’s why we’re trying to make it right.”
At that point, Mary becomes guilty under the school’s hate-speech rules, and has nothing to hit Ruth back with. She could easily end up kicked out of the dorm, if not expelled, and might also be forced to quit any classes she and Carla share.
And this is roughly how I’m hoping things go down. What I’m hoping Willis avoids is the ‘hypocrisy’ trap, where Mary goes down because of something like getting pregnant. While it’s an understandable and easy plotline, it inevitably raises the question, “So it would’ve been fine if she hadn’t been a hypocrite?” She needs to get her comeuppance because of the horrible things she does, not because she fails to adhere to the standard she wants to inflict on others.
My stomach sank reading yesterday’s comic. Now I’m expecting AnaziGirl to assist Ruth in the femurectomy. Hmm, my spell check didn’t flag “femurectomy”.
Here’s hoping Ruth sticks to her guns. I’d assume the RA thing isn’t essential to her continued education and, let’s be honest, the floor could probably do with having a better RA.
……Okay, the Becky thing is a point, but it’s not like Ruth had any real knowledge that she was *living* in the residence hall. Sure, she could get in trouble for it but considering that the other students have actively been conspiring to keep Becky’s presence hidden, I can’t imagine Ruth would be punished too severely. And, shit, it’s not like Mary said anything about the situation except now that she can exploit it. I’d ask Mary why exactly, if she had knowledge of the situation, she chose not to report it. You know, since she’s clearly SO CONCERNED about it.
And what solid evidence does Mary have that Ruth and Billie are sexually involved? Would that actually be a problem (i.e. does IU have specific regulations concerning relationships between residents and RAs?)?
As usual, Mary seems to think her words carry much more weight than they actually do.
Well, Any time one person has authority over another (EG resident/RA) the idea of consent gets pretty grey and murky, and it’s pretty universally against Da Rules.
I think either one of Mary’s threats alone wouldn’t be too big a blemish on Ruth’s record, I think, especially if Ruth beats Mary to the punch and comes clean herself. Both together would make a stronger case for her removal, though.
The REAL issue is whoever blabs about Becky pretty much ensures her ejection from the college. Here’s hoping that can at least wait until she has a steady job…
Plus, on the Becky thing it could very well turn into a case of Mary’s word against the hall’s word that Becky is even living there. They floor is willing to hide Becky, I think they’ll be willing to lie for her.
Some guys in my dorm tried to pull that off first semester of freshman year. And it almost worked until our (admittedly quite oblivious and crappy) RA got busted smoking weed with a bunch of other guys. The replacement RA was much better, and much more observant.
All of this is absolutely correct, but with Ruth’s psyche the way it is right now, I don’t think she’ll be able to figure this out right away. She’s clinging to Billie as her only reason to not commit suicide. Just the threat of taking her away is going to throw her off her game.
I read once that some RMs also teach. Wouldn’t it be Mary’s bad luck if the RM is Leslie or Daisy?
M: this boy needs to be removed from the dorm.
L: she’s not a boy, and I will kick you out for anymore hate speach.
Sierra and Marcie already hate each other enough after the whole Amber and Joe incident. Now because of this Walky and Amazigirl’s marriage will have to be postponed!
Mary needs to be punched in the face. Well, what she needs is to get some basic compassion and human dignity, but I really want to punch her in the face. Ooh, how about Ruth and Amazi-Girl ganging up on her? I’d watch the hell out of that show. The entire first season could be Mary getting owned. They would then move on to systematically destroy their other enemies, such as Amber’s Dad and Crippling Depression. With their fists.
And then Mary gets hit by a truck. One that appears out of nowhere and mows her down while she’s crossing the street, and then disappears, never to be seen again.
She is not missed.
Would it be too much to expect that everyone then starts claiming Mary’s full of crap when she does go to report Billie and Mary just completely loses it?
Also hey guys here is a friendly reminder that transpeople read these comments, and Willis isn’t on much sleep. Can we please take extra care not to say things that are remotely anti-trans or hurtful? For example, nothing that Carla remotely deserves this, or that Ruth is overreacting. If you think “hey maybe this might not be received well”, then maybe just don’t say it here today. Cool?
How are we defining “opinions” here? Is this the definition where we let hateful bigots fall under the same label as people who don’t like chocolate so we can pretend being mean to the former is just as wrong as being mean to the latter?
Basically what I’m saying is, who, exactly, is your comment defending?
A quote from it: “The LGBT community has long counted on our non-LGBT allies to stand beside us in the fight for equality,” Kylar W Broadus, executive director of TPOCC said in a statement. “And right now, the transgender community needs allies more than ever as we fight for our very survival.”
Ruth has a dorm full of girls who have seen her and Billie fight constantly and are willing to hide Becky when necessary.
All Carla has to do is warn Billie or Becky that they need to move their clothes. By the time the manager come up to check on things there will be nothing to see.
No idea why Mary thinks just her word on this will be sufficient or that anyone is going to rat Becky out after what happened.
Like I said, she has absolutely no evidence to back up whatever claims she wants to make. And frankly, I’m sure the manager would be much more interested in why Mary chose not to report an illegal resident until she could use it as leverage to hurt Ruth.
Well, we’re ASSUMING she doesn’t have proof. Its possible that she’s made at least some attempts to collect evidence… perhaps videoing Billie leaving Ruth’s room.
We are also assuming that the rest of the floor would be willing to support Ruth over Mary. I doubt Mary has any friends on the floor, but its possible that some of he residents might be just as annoyed at Ruth.
Billie leaving Ruth’s room is meaningless considering she alleges to have an “open door” policy. Heck, Billia wouldn’t even be entirely dishonest in claiming she was visiting Ruth for help coping with her depression.
In short, because Mary doesn’t need the RA Manager to believe her. All Mary needs is for Ruth to be scared of her, and the threat suffices for that. Especially because Ruth is a vulnerable person, and threatening something that Ruth would imagine could get Billie taken away from her is going to make her feel extra vulnerable.
If Ruth calls out her bluff, she’s probably not going to get what she wants though the resulting investigation may fuck over multiple students depending on how it goes.
But by openly defying Ruth in this manner and targeting the ways she is vulnerable and desperate, she does a good job attacking emotional weak points in order to create a climate of fear in her target. Get Ruth hyperanxious about losing the Billie that is right now the only thing she’s using not to kill herself and you might knock her off balance enough to get what you want.
She doesn’t have to prove anything. Just by triggering an investigation, she can just make everyone else’s lives difficult or even have their misdeeds exposed.
Also, literally what the fuck is she getting out of any of this, other than just being a shit-stirrer? Does it fuel her stupid need to feel superior? A power-trip, I guess? Still, jesus, what a bongo.
Mary seems to need everyone else to live by her rules. Not unlike some other characters we have seen who were brought up to follow restrictive, hateful religions instead of deciding anything for themselves. She’s just more smug and less trigger-happy.
I have a lot of difficulty understanding how this makes her feel superior. But then again, I’m having difficulty understanding how she can even manage to maintain those mental blocks against five minutes of rational thought, which she’s bound to do at least at some point during her day.
She’s reacting, not enacting a diabolical plan. Carla pushed her buttons, so she’s lashed out in the nastiest way she could. Then Ruth came down on her for it, so she hit low again to get the upper hand. She’s not thinking — just venting bile.
I’m not sure I agree with that. Like, I don’t think she planned this moment. But she’s definitely been storing all these facts for a moment such as this for awhile in the intent of gaining one hell of an upper hand when she did.
It’s really one of the big things that makes her so dangerous, because she can protest and hide behind being “forced” to do these horrendous actions, while deliberately setting herself up to them for her own advantage.
I don’t think we’re necessarily in that much disagreement here. Clearly, she’s been bottling up and stewing on it. Maybe she even rehearsed that little speech in her head a few times.
But I don’t think she’s acting strategically here. I think Mary would have just quietly kept judging each of them until her anger got the better of her.
I tend to think it was a bit more calculated than that. But regardless, there are some things you just Don’t Say, no matter how mad you get, and Mary’s just checking every box here.
Yup, she revels in her power over others. Especially social power. She’s the type to exploit privilege deliberately and she’s definitely been doing so in the last two comics.
And sadly that has a lot of real world analogues. There’s no shortage of assholes who, for instance, turn to organized sexism and racism and the ability to hurt those lower on the totem pole than them to get a rush of self-satisfaction.
I think it’s about making her immediate surroundings conform to her comforts. Or as she’d probably say it from her warped sense of justice; set the world right.
Ruth can possibly claim ignorance about Becky, but there’s definitely rules in IU’s health and safety about discrimination policy about harassment due to gender identity. And sexual identity. Which Mary’s breaking.
So double reports filed AND drop a piano on her head!
Billie, listening in, was unsure how to feel: on one hand, Mary was being a horrible, horrible person, but on the other hand, Mary had described Billie as a cheerleader.
It was never actually said but implied in some of the older comics very subtly. I didn’t really realize until Willis made a post on which was the best transgender character and identified carla on his tumblr
That Carla is trans has never been explicitly stated in the comic. But there have been several clues. Also, Willis has explicitly said on Tumblr that DoA Carla is trans and asexual.
I actually took the ‘There’s a reason for that’ in the second one as referring to why she wasn’t in roller derby (and a reference to the cissexism of some women’s groups/spaces) as opposed to her height, but either would make sense.
I was just looking for you in the comments to say thank you so much for linking these to me yesterday! I didn’t have a chance to do so before comments were closed on that page.
I was amazed that I had apparently been oblivious to these clues. I don’t follow Willis regularly so I wouldn’t have caught on from the tumblr statement, but I should have from those pages. Thanks again!
It’s definitely been hinted at, especially strongly if you’re very familiar with Shortpacked – and I did see Willis confirm it on his Tumblr a while before Carla had a speaking role on DoA.
Nah, that one’s actually a callback to UltraCar in Shortpacked. Who had a stomach compartment with extendable arm/hand. Often used for precisely that purpose.
I believe the later will happen.
Ruth is not afraid of Mary I think. She is just not used to having anyone get in her face like this, so she’s a bit startled.
I think maybe Mary’s finally picked the wrong person to threaten, hassle, insult and attempt to intimidate.
I’m sorry, I lied. There is a third way. Ruth bluffs. And bluffs hard about taking Mary down with her. And what would her fundie parents think about their “good little Christian” daughter being expelled from college?
But like….
Committing microagressions (like Mary just did) is against University Policy (at leas4 at my school).
She can’t avoid expulsion if she keeps it up “because my RA isn’t doing her job!!”
I’m pretty sure that Ruth could lose her job if this stuff came to light. Mary would get in trouble too, so I think she’s banking on Ruth not doing anything. If she does, then Mary at least gets to take Ruth down with her.
You know, with this level of blackmail, you could get away with some serious stuff. But Mary uses her blackmail leverage to try to… get away with being a transphobic piece of shit. My vote goes to the Roomies’ truck making a cameo for Mary.
At least she can’t exactly prove her blackmail to the residence manager, as she only has her own word. Meanwhile, the dorm will cover for Becky (just claim to be Billie’s visiting cousin or something) and I have the distinct feeling that Carla will help out Ruth and Billie. In which case, it will be the unsubstantiated word of a freshman against an RA that the residence office “loves”.
It really only ever has one ending if it’s successful. And that’s murder. While Willis promised no deaths, Mary might end up in a precarious position if she makes Ruth genuinely believe she has no options and no way out. Extra precarious given that Ruth is already in a headspace where she is very prone to believing that she’s out of options and there’s no way back to happiness.
You know, accidents happen. Also, something I just thought of, we haven’t factored Roz into this. She’s had to put up with Mary’s bullshit for a while now (don’t know how) and is either going to go into full on crusader mode or just snap if she finds out what Mary said to Carla. At the very least, she’s gonna make Mary’s life as difficult as possible. At the worst….well, let’s just say it might not be Ruth who ends up pushing Mary down a set of stairs.
Ooh, now that’s an interesting point. If Roz finds out about this (and what’s the over-under on Mary deciding to brag to anyone she can find if she gets away with this), she’s definitely going to have more than a few words to say and will probably be of a mind to bring them up at the floor meeting.
Does Mary even have proof of anything, though? The entire floor would deny the entire thing, and considering she just said something horribly transphobic, following it up with “and there’s LESBIANS* who are breaking RULES!” isn’t going to make her look all that credible to the authorities.
*and bisexuals but I doubt Mary cares about the distinction
Also first time commenting despite reading this for over a year, let’s see if I get a decent gravatar haha
Well, if she is in the closet and holds to those fundie beliefs, then her hateful and spiteful actions are probably to make other people feel as crappy as she does. If this where in fact the case, I might actually pity her.
Would they all? Or would someone actually want to see the back of Ruth and back Mary…after all Ruth has physically threatened everyone and everyone has seen shes capable of carrying out her threats
Yes, I’ve been reading quite a few comments about “nobody vouching for Mary” and thinking “but Ruth’s pretty unpopular on the floor too”. AFAIK only Billie has our perspective on her; nobody else has seen her vulnerability.
This is why I keep reading this comic, the tension build ups are excellent, the out of right field revelations just keep on coming and the drama, oh the drama
The issue for me is Mary is right in that Ruth is a terrible RA (and not much better as a person though she has her moments) but I sort of kinda hoped that maybe she’d see the error of her ways and start to make amends
Hopefully Ruth gets replaced, Mary gets transferred and Carla takes on board a lesson about picking your battles (but a new pair of skates would be good as well)
Floor meeting tonight, do a Commandant Spangler punishment. “Mary has been making transphobic comments. As such, the showers on your floor will be locked for two weeks. You may thank the cadet after I leave.”
Agghhh, I had a feeling this was the way the wind was blowing. We know that Mary’s been collecting intel on Ruth and Billie, so that one wasn’t hard to see coming. I didn’t see Becky being thrown in there. We’ve seen the girls on that floor pulling together to hide Becky from Ruth. They should have been making more effort to hide her from Mary.
Apparently, Mary knows everyone’s secrets, then saves them up to use as weapons. She’s a snoop, and she’s malicious.
I have a bad feeling that this will get so, so much uglier.
To think, she just wanted to study. Also I really don’t get the previous comic. I mean, it’s a modern comic so I’m assuming it is some kind of rape/sexual orientation/gender identity awareness kind of thing?
It’s Mary being a d-bag and saying that Carla isn’t a woman, she’s her birth gender that doesn’t match up with who she really is. (I’m trying to word this correctly, apologies if I make mistakes it. It’s putting Carla in an enormously unsafe situation by outing her as a MTF trans student, and it’s a hugely douchey thing to do)
It’s been noted in previous comment sections that there are designated quiet rooms on each floor, and that it’s not exactly reasonable to expect perfect quiet in a living area in the middle of a Friday afternoon.
It just seems really odd that students should be expected to leave their own rooms if they want peace and quiet. I can understand if you have a bit of a noisy roommate, but if it’s disturbances happening outside in the hall-
You know what why didn’t Mary just call someone? Like Campus Security.
….
Does this place even HAVE Campus Security?
Even if she has a right to quiet in her room (which really shouldn’t be your expectation in a dorm tbh, regardless of how importantit may be), this is beyond reasonable retaliation. And yeah, reporting her woud have been the sensible step if it bothered her that much, but the RA would be the actual step to report it to as far as I can see, and she doesn’t exactly respect Ruth (of course, again, why she ignored security or student services remains a question (if we didn’t know by now that she’s on a power trip))
It seems a lot weirder that people should be expected to levitate when trying to get to and from their rooms.
Because that’s the only way Mary’s going to get her sacred perfect quiet.
Dorms are living spaces. Living involves noise. There are reasonable limits that can be put on that noise, but ‘the sound of travel is absolutely verboten in the middle of a school day in the second month of school’ is not a reasonable limit.
My opinion is Carla was absolutely in the wrong and bullying Mary. Then Mary become a disgusting bigot and is now a blackmailer. Which just goes to show you can be a jerk and still be a victim of a genuinely evil and vile person. Mary’s behavior is beyond the pale and is to Carla’s behavior what [insert hate-monger of your choice] to Newman from Seinfeld. People should ditch any sympathy they had for Mary as the situation is no longer about making noise. It’s about abuse, hate, and hate mongering.
Skating in the halls wasn’t bullying. Continuing to skate in the halls just to annoy Mary, even jumping over Mary and risking hurting her, was getting pretty close to bullying. Loudly jumping up and down in roller-skates outside Mary’s room was definitely harassment, even if she did have a good reason to be angry at Mary.
THAT SAID, none of this excuses what Mary is doing right now. Carla was being an asshole, but so was Mary. Then Mary crossed the line from “asshole” to “completely vile person”, so I don’t really care who started it. Carla was in the wrong, but Mary is MORE in the wrong. Like, WAY more.
If it was bullying, it’s only by the kind of pedantic, zero-tolerance definition that lets bullies turn accusations back on their victims. As long-term persistent behavior it could turn to bullying, but as a one-shot deal it’s just an annoyance. If you’re dealing with a bureaucracy that has a list of bullying behaviors with no nuance, then this kind of thing could be on there. And that would be dumb.
Mary is a total idiot. Either that or she has a death wish.
I don’t think that she has faced Ruth down at all. Ruth has the look of someone seeing a bunny taking on a tiger. And is just waiting to see what happens next.
I think Mary is an angry person who has always seemed like someone who will stoop to any level to get her way: nagging, harassment, insults, and now blackmail. Tell her no, and she will make your life Hell.
A while ago, when Roz was getting snarky at Joyce, people kept calling her that word, and Willis got sick of it. As far as I know the only word it is for is the b-word.
The weird thing is, a good number of us are now aware of it and make jokes about it, so you can’t tell who originally wrote bongo and who tried to say the other word and got censored.
Do “country matters” get censored? Because even though I have never used that word (look up the tvtrope “country matters” to find out what I’m talking about), but Mary is sorely tempting me to.
Carla’s transgender, so Mary’s comment was meant to imply that Carla isn’t really a woman. It’s really, incredibly out of line regardless of the situation.
And also I was waiting for a comments section post-transphobia to say that, to avoid having my comment about him bringing it up and getting either myself banned or my comment deleted.
yeah but joyce is(/was?) a fundie too, and even from the same circle as toedad (while mary isnt) and even before she started changing i dont remember her ever saying things like this
Well, Joyce seems to be a good person at her core. Joyce has been brainwashed pretty bad, and when she first started college she would have been scandalized to find out Carla was transgender, but it would have been from “a place of love” and she probably would have decided it’s “not her place to judge”. And, after the whole thing with Becky and Toedad, I don’t think she would care at all. (Although with her rigid adherence to gender roles right now, I’m not sure.) Joyce has a conscience and her Dad, at least, seems to encourage her to make her own decisions and do what she thinks is right. Plus there’s the fact that she said she thinks her parents switched churches so many times is because of people like Mary, so I’m guessing even her parents wouldn’t have encouraged her to act like this.
Mary, on the other hand, gets upset at people for being “wrong” and decides they need to be “punished” for it. Of course, she doesn’t actually do anything about it until it can benefit her. (She didn’t say shit about Carla being transgendered until she knew it would really hurt her, and she didn’t bring up all the things Ruth has been doing until she could use it to her advantage.)
TL;DR: Joyce freaks out because she cares about people, but always decides that they should do what’s right for THEM. Mary freaks out because she judges people, and she always decides that they should do whatever the hell she wants them to do.
Isn’t it just heresy until she has some solid evidence that she fuckin Billie? And is there actually some rule against that? And if there is, why is the relationship between two consenting legal adults the business of the upper people? You know what is without a doubt a punishable offense though? HATE SPEECH.
Hate speech absolutely. However, if Mary reported Ruth and Becky, any investigation would find Billie’s and Becky’s stuff where they’re not supposed to be. Also, it is indeed against the rules for staff members (including RAs) to have relationships with students, since the power imbalance makes it difficult to discern whether the student consented or was coerced.
True, it’s probably against the rules (the relationship part). But then again, threatening the members of your dorm with physical violence and defacing their property are all also probably against the rules. And the actual law. So if Mary’s ploy actually works, I’ll be surprised. Them again, we need another plot to latch onto, and this one seems ripe.
“But then again, threatening the members of your dorm with physical violence and defacing their property are all also probably against the rules. And the actual law.”
And yet Ruth did exactly that early on. Hopefully no one’s still nursing a grudge.
1) I’d say she is guilty of heresy
2) she probably wouldn’t care about such an accusation because, to quote an old roommate who made conversations very uncomfortable, “only filthy papists use that word”
Well, there are often rules against people having relationships with people under their authority (such as teacher/student, or boss/worker), possibly to prevent situations where the subordinate is either unduly pressured (i.e. doesn’t want to date but has to or risk the consequences) or unduly benefits (i.e. a student gets higher grades.)
Now, I don’t know if an R.A./Resident relationship would have quite the same restrictions as a Teacher/Student, but I can see the university having rules against it for similar reasons.
Mary is terrible- but clearly a product of her environment, who needs help learning to bring forward her faith in a suitable fashion.
Try referring her to Luke 18:9-14, maybe, Ruth?
With your fist and knee if necessary.
This. I’ve always thought of Mary as the contrast to Joyce: they basically grew up in the same environment, but Joyce is a fundamentally good person while Mary is a demagogue-in-training.
Thus, Joyce struggles to overcome her fundie programming when she discovers that ‘those people’ aren’t actually evil after all, while Mary doubles down on her prejudices because she knows she’s better than them (and if they weren’t evil then she’d have to face some uncomfortable truths about herself – I suspect we’re being set up for a reveal of Mary’s personal demons at some point).
The difference is that Mary was a princess who could do no wrong. She was repeatedly told that she was the saved and everyone else was the sinner. Joyce was told she was a sinner and needed to atone, so she never developed the ‘only I’ mentality.
I personally believe Mary was an only child and spoiled, whereas Joyce had siblings and wasn’t made as much of a pet by her parents. Also, monkey see, monkey do? Joyce said her parents kept switching churches because of b-words, whereas Mary and her parents WERE the b-words. Different environments.
And sometimes people are just different. You could argue that Joyce would likely be spoiled as the youngest child and only (apparent) girl.
Also, as far as we know, Becky was an only child and likely raised in at least as fundy an environment and turned out completely different.
We don’t actually know anything about Mary’s family. I’d definitely be interested in more development for her background. Something to give us more of an idea where she’s coming from and maybe make us more sympathetic, while still leaving her the bad guy mirror for Joyce.
The grandma defence does have some validity though. Not ethically, but historically. Change takes time and often not until everyone who cling to the old ways have died.
And there are only so many horrendously offensive emails about Obama you’re willing to receive before you call them on their ridiculous bullshit, ‘respect for the elderly’ be damned. Respect for humanity is a thing too ffs.
A great many ‘born again’ Christians, particularly of the American fundamentalist variety, are basically raised from birth in the subcultural bubble and insulated from the outside world. It’s not like an adult conversion; it’s very likely that when Mary made her ‘choice’ she had virtually no experience of anything outside the evangelical tribe. Her particular prejudices will have been firmly instilled and reinforced by her environment.
Other than that, I agree with the thrust of your point; at some point “it’s not my fault, I was raised this way” does stop being a defence, and I’m generally a big proponent of the argument that religion doesn’t make assholes, it just makes assholes more obnoxiously self-righteous.
Joyce and Mary were apparently raised in very similar circumstances and absorbed very similar prejudices. Both are “born again” (Has Joyce actually used that language? Can’t recall.)
The difference is that Joyce is a good person and Mary is a bully. Joyce said some horribly offensive things early on, but in ignorance and confusion and never with intent to hurt. That doesn’t necessarily make them less painful.
She’s learned better.
I suspect even now, if suddenly confronted with Carla being trans, she’d react badly – babble offensively, say some very hurtful things.
Mary on the other hand, doesn’t. She learns about it. Doesn’t react with shock and horror. Saves up the secret. Then deliberately uses it to hurt Carla when she’s mad at her.
Like you said, it’s not just the religion. That just normalizes it. Makes Mary feel even more justified in her bullying.
I see Al Bundy escorting one of Kelly’s toys to the door by the collar and ‘accidentally’ running him into the door frame.
Lather, rinse, repeat for Mary.
So, this is where Ruth could sit Mary down and calmly help her figure out if this is what she wants out of her life; to look down on people and try to ruin their lives for not fitting in the tight little boxes of what she thinks they should be allowed to do, or be.
It’s tough to figure out what action to root for because Ruth, Billie, and Becky are all really vulnerable right now. Becky’s peril is obvious and I’m concerned about the effects on Ruth and Billie’s mental health if Ruth loses her job or her place in the dorm or something. So even though I do hope Ruth and Carla report Mary for hate speech and she gets expelled and we never see her in the comic again, it’s hard to feel all “rah rah destroy the bigoted piece of shit yes” about it.
I’m leaning towards believing that Ruth will take action, since Ruth doesn’t know enough about Becky to feel sympathetic to her (although Mary referring to her as a “perverted vagrant” might be enough) and she may not value self-preservation because she feels as though she’s committed to a suicide pact.
Other comments have correctly pointed out that Mary doesn’t seem to have proof to back up her statements, so this seems to be an empty threat, but I do think Mary is cunning and vile enough to have gathered evidence. If nothing else, I think she could get enough eyes on the dorm that it would screw over Becky.
If only Joyce had opened up to Leslie. Then she probably could have helped to set Becky up with the information of a women’s shelter, especially since she went through a similar situation herself.If Becky gets discovered, the absolutely worse case scenario is that she’s asked to leave, if that, and that’s a minor problem if she has someplace to go.
Also, Becky was kidnapped on campus at gunpoint in broad daylight, forced into a car, and nearly died in a crash. There is no way on earth that a University wants to be seen in any way as unsympathetic to that person. They might even let her stay, or at least help her find the resources she needs in this situation.
Earlier strips made a big point out of the dorm meeting Ruth’s holding about Ross’ rampage. I figure that Ruth will take the opportunity to say something to blunt the edge of Mary’s blackmail-knife.
For a second I thought that said: “Joe, talk about misreading signals.”
It would end with him saying: “They can never misread THIS signal!” Then pointing towards his penis.
but… her “standing up” to ruth was nothing but unsubtle lesbophobia. “youre awful cause youre having sex with a girl and are letting a homeless lesbian live here”. that is literally what she said. she didnt bring up any of the bad things ruth has actually ever done. how are you interpreting this as her standing up to a bully
Well, the first, while Mary states it in the MOST OFFENSIVE WAY POSSIBLE, is a problem in that it’s a relationship with one of her charges. While it’s not always a firing offense, it’s strongly discouraged, and it is grounds for dismissal at SOME universities.
But not an expulsion offense – just a “you lose your job” offense.
As for the issue of Becky – honestly, it’s tough to know how that plays out. EVERYONE else in the wing knows – but they’re ALL working to keep Becky a secret from Ruth. Ruth could conceivably have plausible deniablilty in not knowing about Becky – “how could I know when every other resident is actively working to hide her, and specifically hide her from ME? That’s a pretty high bar to hold me to.”.
Interestingly enough, Mary doesn’t mention (possibly not knowing about) the atom bomb in the room – 90 KAZILLION BOTTLES OF BOOZE between Ruth and Billie.
Meanwhile, Mary’s got straight-up harassment charges on her, with a witness present. I get that she’s playing brinksmanship here, but she has less room for wiggling out of this – both in terms of being found in violation of guidelines (being caught dead to rights harassing someone) and in terms of punishment afterwards. Ruth might lose her position, but Mary might get expelled.
(And as for Carla, she gets conduct write-ups. Not much to that one. “Don’t skate in the halls again. Got it?”)
Yeah, that’s the whole problem with the ‘Mary’s got a point’ argument.
While Ruth is breaking rules, and Carla was until her skates got ruined, those rules (and the good reasons for them) aren’t what Mary’s statements (and actions) tell us that she’s bothered by.
She clearly wasn’t bothered by Carla’s skating qua skating or the safety issues that lead to the rule – she was bothered by non-rule breaking noise, and then became a safety hazard herself to get back at Carla refusing to assent to what she saw as an unreasonable request. (She probably wouldn’t have stopped if Mary HAD cited the good reason, either, because kids are dumb and Carla’s not exactly considerate, but Mary never even tried to claim the high ground.)
Ruth shouldn’t be banging one of the students under her charge, and Becky being there is technically a rules violation (though one that really should be overlooked under the circumstances), this is all true, but…Mary never mentioned the threats or the actual violence (which should be bigger deals than either of those), but she DID mention Billie’s gender and that Becky was a lesbian, so the queer aspect is clearly awful high in her thoughts.
I guess we’re going to learn if Ruth is one of those rare people whom you should never, ever threaten, because they have just stopped giving a damn what happens to them if it means taking you out, or if Billie has saved her enough… to ruin her.
Mary’s acting tough, but she doesn’t actually have anything. She has hearsay, but no evidence that Ruth is having lesbian affairs with one of her charges. Her desire to get Carla removed from the female wing incurs the whole issues with tolerance, and the transgender debate isn’t something I think the college would like to be involved with. (Plus, again, she has no proof to get Carla evicted, other than a few annoying misdemeanors.)
She has no evidence to back up anything she’s saying. It sounds tough, but she can’t back up ANY OF IT. And the lengths she would most likely have to stoop to get it would get HER evicted.
Actually her whole reasoning for getting Carla removed was because she was roller bladin’ up and down the hallways while she was trying to study. She used the “in the boys dorm where you belong.” remark as an insult, but he original reason was that Carla was keeping her from concentrating. That or she’s secretly got tons of pent up sexual tension for roller bladin’ redheads. Who can tell with these crazy kids.
Again, though, it’s a misdemeanor, a minor offense. And the only thing she has close to evidence of. (Though that evidence also gives evidence to her involving herself in the destruction of Carla’s personal property.) That alone isn’t sufficient to get someone evicted, unless they have multiple accounts of Carla doing this.
And naturally the thought keeps popping up in my head ‘if she was bothering you, why didn’t you just leave and go to an official study place to study rather than engaging in a petty war like you’re freaking Bugs Bunny?’
I’ve never understood this. It’s her room, why isn’t she allowed to study there? Shouldn’t it be obvious that maybe Carla shouldn’t have been skating down the halls? I’m not seeing how Mary using her room to study in instead of the library is somehow grounds for what Carla was doing as okay?
This is becoming really hard to talk about because literally everybody in these recent strips did something that you could look at as wrong.
Carla kept skating down the hall even when Mary told her not to, and then kept harassing her.
Mary fucked up the carpet and Carla’s skates, then holy shit did she drop the bomb.
And Ruth…Well there’s like forty strips of what’s wrong with Ruth.
Yeah, they’re all being asses about this. But this should have been a simple solution and instead it’s escalated into a huge mess because none of them could be mature about it. And I think that’s what really annoys me.
Despite it clearly being everyone’s faults, Mary’s determined to make it all everyone else’s fault BUT hers. (When she’s clearly also at fault.) She has no evidence to make the major things all everyone else’s faults like she wants. She does have evidence for smaller things that are everyone’s faults, but she’s overlooking it.
Everyone has done something wrong in this series of strips yes. Carla was being obnoxious, and possibly a safety hazard. Mary has tried to ensure that Carla gets injured, and when that didn’t stop Carla, started being a transphobic asshole.
Just because Carla has done something wrong doesn’t mean she deserves what Mary has been doing to her. And Mary’s actions aren’t hateful to just Carla. They’re hateful towards anyone who is trans.
Um, maybe Sierra? Dorothy and Walky? Whatever Mike feels aside from the need to be a contrarian jerkass? Good God, those are our options for happy people… Wait! Jacob! Jacob is still happy! Right?
No. There is a wrong side. The wrong side is the person who escalated it to destruction of property, bodily harm and hate speech. There is ABSOLUTELY a wrong side.
(Ok I am not actually agreeing with you now that I re-read your comment, I got confused. You actually DID say there was no wrong side. There totally was a wrong side)
You know… I’m an idiot. Because yesterday I had a post ready to put up first thing saying, hey assholes who want to defend Mary’s actions and shit on Carla, maybe think twice about the incredibly insensitive message that sends to us trans girls.
And tonight? Tonight I was all, eh, I don’t need to put that up. It’s moved on from that point, people aren’t going to be dragging in Carla’s supposed “awful skating on carpet, oooooh” garbage like nothing at all fucking happened.
But nope, a large number of a-holes apparently still haven’t gotten the memo about the disproportionality of Mary’s actions versus the bullshit excuse Mary has clung to to justify bullying and injuring (repeatedly now) Carla.
And it hasn’t stopped the ignorant as fuck a-holes who want to still pretend like Carla is the bully here.
So yeah, no. Sorry, but no. Look at your life. Look at your life choices and for fuck’s sake can you all think twice before trying to resell those donkey turds in these of all comics?!?
Like, literally every character here sucks. Ain’t no problem sharing the suckitude equally. Plenty of suck to go around. A vast ocean of suck awaits them to sail.
Okay tone down the sarcasm, I almost didn’t catch it. And there’s not false equivalence. Nothing that any of these characters have done can be considered equal to each other in any way. But that still don’t mean I have to like them.
You’re an idiot of the highest order. I sincerely hope your HDD disks magically fall into each other and the public library throws you out for being a jackass.
Today and yesterday’s comics have been ridiculously painful, and, just, yes. +1. Being a jerk doesn’t validate destruction of property, let alone this shit.
Carla shouldn’t have been skating down the halls, because it’s a safety hazard.
Not because of noise, despite what Mary claims.
Anyone who can’t study because of a negligable amount of noise in the hallways in the middle of the day a month into the the school year needs to either learn to deal with in a sane way.
And I need to learn to complete my thoughts before hitting ‘post’.
Anyone who can’t study because of a negligable amount of noise in the hallways in the middle of the day a month into the the school year needs to either learn to deal with in a sane way, or to not be in a group environment to begin with.
Yeah, the reason behind the rule, is quite telling when it comes to Mary trying to enforce the rule. Her second action is to try and trip Carla. This could hurt Carla, Mary, and any number of bystanders who just happen to be there. Which is why I’m not sympathetic to the “Mary just wanted some quiet!” argument.
Carla wasnt actually being too loud initially. If she was breaking a rule it was only for skating, not for noise.
Mary has a right to study in her room. But shes not entitled to absolute silence during the day.
That Carla wasnt being extra-nice to Mary ( would you ? ) doesnt ipso facto make Carla just as bad as Mary or an awful person. Yes, this means Mary has a minor inconvenience. But Mary doesnt have a right NOT be minorly inconvenienced.
Thats how privilege operates. Someone with a special privilege takes it for a guaranteed right, instead of a special request.
she shares a room with another person who can make noise. She also lives in dorm filled 18 year olds, who are not known for being churchmice.
Dorms have regulated quiet times. Usually after 10 pm on schoolnights,
or all day during midterms. Everyone there is under the same terms.
So Marys request for extra quiet ( actually total silence ) was a request for privilege, she doesn’t have a right to. Carla did nothing wrong by not granting it. It was a special request. Dorms are not designated quiet spaces 24 hours a day— unless you live in a special dorm which is this.
They usually exist. Most universities also have designated sober dorms, quiet dorms, older student housing, and LGBT safe housing etc.
Mary was acting out of misplaced sense of entitlement and privilege. Carla could have been extra nice to her or she could have refused.
Marys escalations, ie. blocking the hallway and vandalizing it were far worse infractions than Carla skating.
When Carla was being loud enough to cause a disturbance it was because of Marys actions ( her wheels were glued shut ) .
Campus speech codes for bias and harassment, are also strict.
Mary isnt the Queen of the Dorm, and Carla isnt her royal subject.
Mary isnt the designated Christian adult, not the Dorm authority figure.
That she keeps acting like it, is why she gets into trouble.
No. It is explicitly not. If she just wanted her to shut up, she wouldn’t have used cissexist remarks. She knows exactly what she’s doing. She waited for Carla to bother her to use it, but don’t fucking kid yourself – her actual problem here is that Carla’s trans. Everyone has been loud. Not everyone has been told ‘you belong in the boys wing’.
And for fuck’s sake, Roller SKATES, not BLADES. Not that either is SUPER gendered, but SKATES are gendered FEMALE (AFAIK). It’d be like saying Mary’s a boy because she’s an artist – asinine and untrue.
I’ve never heard of either type of skate being gendered, though “roller blades” (even for inline skates) is kind of 90s, and obviously incorrect in any case for quads.
Most of the people who want to kill Mary aren’t the people who advocated for nonviolence. But please, try and find the comment where I hope someone dies. Good luck, I didn’t want Blaine or Toedad to be beaten into a hospital.
I bet she keeps a chart. With a section for every single person remotely in her life. Where she writes down EVERYTHING she knows about them and colour-codes each piece of information for level of moral wrongness.
My great-grandmother. Literally, she said it last week when we visited her.
So Mary has the same vocab as a ninety-five-year-old lady who is very, VERY mean.
I bet she read Lamentations, like, a thousand times. King James version. That shit’s hardcore. Like that was her bed time story. ‘Tell me again about the starving widow sinners again, Daddy!’ ‘Sweetie, we’ve read this chapter six times, can’t we move on?’ ‘I wanna hear about the widows again!’
This is where it can start though. If she gets away with this without repercussions, it will reinforce the idea in her mind that she is right and her actions are justified. After years of this, if can go from blackmailing your RA to threatening to kill your daughter’s girlfriend and kidnapping your daughter at gunpoint.
Ruth is a terrible RA though, beyond just the conflict of interest involving her sex life or her ignorance of Becky.
She’s a bully. Not just a “you said things that made me feel bad” bully, but an actual “threats of bodily harm, and willingness to move forward on said threat” bully.
At my university, that would be grounds for a conduct board hearing, and likely loss of campus housing.
I don’t like Mary because she’s spiteful and mean-spirited (though I don’t wish death on her! I’d like a moment of schadenfreude at her expense soon though.) BUT at the same time, I have a hard time actually -liking- Ruth at any level. I do feel pity for her, but I don’t like her.
In this fight between the meanie and the bully, I hope they both lose.
And on that note, I’m pretty much out of politeness on people who are of a mind to minimize what Mary is doing and has done these last two comics anymore.
I was willing to somewhat stomach it when people were pretending that someone being annoying was a license to violence, but now that Mary has escalated to blackmail, blatant intentional transphobic bullying, and this mass of homophobic vomit and hate?
I was willing to extend Mary the benefit of the doubt when she was actually reacting to a legitimate problem but people not being cis or hetero enough for her tastes is not a legitimate problem.
Call me a bit jaded and old, which I admit to both, but I personally had been subjected to a lot of nasty verbal and physical abuse in growing up in the 1980’s as someone both self-identifying as a nerd and whose attitude, dress and behavior was -way- out of the mainstream for the time.
Those people were mean behind my back and straight to my face constantly for years. Far meaner than Mary is being right now. Forgive me if I am not hip to the current hyperbolic zeitgeist.
Really? Gosh, that’s so awful. I had all of that, continual physical and emotional abuse for “being a (homophobic slur)” (brief note on this one, this was in ultra mega fundieville where friend’s parents would casually talk about how they would kill their son if he became a (homophobic slur)) because I wasn’t doing the heterosexual things I was supposed to, and now as an out trans woman, I’ve been discriminated out of jobs, been disowned by a family that wanted to send me to reparative therapy, gotten used to regular instances of people hiding their kid’s eyes, spitting on me, and muttering casual slurs, and oh yeah, had people casually debating/threatening to kill me on two separate occasions, once for the terrible crime of hugging my girlfriend on a street corner but being the “wrong kind” of hot lesbian to harass.
But gawrsh, please tell me more about how you were bullied as a nerd and how this makes you so much above this new fashioned transphobia and its hippity hops and vidjeo games.
Although I risk the stark fist of Willis coming down hard upon me:
You don’t know me. You don’t know my life. You don’t understand the kind of abuse I suffered in my younger years, and the kind of bullshit I deal with every day because of it. I’m not going to play a stupid oneupmanship game with a faceless internet denizen.
This isn’t about your story or my story. This is about how Mary is being a mean person. Full of meanness. Nastiness. Pettiness. Invective deserving of an exasperated smack, even.
From my perspective—and that is what my original response was about anyway—she’s being ‘mean’. She hasn’t even gotten close to the level of Blaine.
Dude, you’re the one who just called hate speech, and I quote, “hyperbolic zeitgeist”.
I”m not trying to one up you. I’m trying to point out that maybe, just maybe, you don’t quite realize how dismissive you are coming off to the experiences of trans women.
When you dismiss the shit that is my daily background radiation as “hyperbolic zeitgeist”, “being mean”, try and put forth your own experiences of bullying as clearly being worse than the experiences of trans women, and so forth, that comes across a very specific way.
You might not mean to come off that way. But you are.
Cerberus is exactly right here. No matter how disruptive (not very) and reckless (enough that it was a bad idea, certainly, but not even close to the physical retaliation she got for it) Carla was being, Mary is so far out of line she couldn’t reach the line with a magical genie wish and an electrified line-reacher. Nerds do not suffer from “hate-speech.” Nerds are not fired from jobs, kept out of housing, and murdered for being nerds. Nerds get called the occasional name and pushed around in middle school. If you live in a cartoon, you may be stuffed into a locker. After you get out of school, you are stereotyped as someone’s boss at a high-tech startup.
I am a white, gay male from a relatively liberal area of the Midwest. I was uncomfortable in high school with the idea of expressing my orientation to people I considered friends. I was afraid to let other boys know I was attracted to them when I was certain of their orientation because I might have been caught out. Years later and in one of the most queer-friendly cities in one of the most queer friendly states the country, I have been afraid that people were about to become violent because they had seen me holding hands or kissing another man.
I am told by friends, if I take public transit to the Gay Pride Festival, that I should make sure to get home before dark because I may be the victim of a hate crime.
In.
Portland.
Oregon.
This place is one of the safest places I could go for being out, and I still fear for my safety if I’m truly out. I still don’t tell my boss at work that my dates are with men because I’m afraid of how that will pan out.
But hey, your experience of being picked on because of nerdiness is totally the same thing as my experience, just like I can totally say that I’ve suffered as much as Cerberus.
(In case you can’t tell, no, I can’t say that. I wish you all the luck in the world, Cerberus. Please stay safe. You deserve so much better than you’ve gotten)
Hate speech is an act of violence that consciously dehumanizes a person with the weight and pressure of centuries of oppressive social structures backing it up.
That’s not “being mean.” It’s evil. It’s heinous. It’s a thoroughly different level.
I don’t know you, yes – and I don’t want to – but if you don’t want to “play stupid oneupmanship” than you ought’n’t dismiss transphobia as ‘current hyperbolic zeitgeist’ and you damn well ought’n’t try to dismiss hate speech as akin to bullying a ‘non-mainstream nerd.’ Honestly. Different ballparks. Just, totally different levels.
Maybe, just maybe, if you don’t have a certain set of experiences (like, say, not being experienced with being trans), you could listen to people who do have those experiences about what they’re like?
Cuz something tells me that trans people’s lives are a fuckton harder than you’re thinking they are. And that something is that the suicide attempt rate for trans people is 41%. 50% of trans people report being survivors of violence and abuse. 25% are survivors of sexual assault. Trans people make up 16% of all murder victims, despite being only 2% of the general population.
Seriously dude, I was bullied in school. Like, broken bones, can’t turn my back on a full room because I get panic attacks, permanent scars level bullied. So I get that bullying can completely recalibrate your asshole meter and leave you open for further abuse because it doesn’t feel like abuse-abuse relative to the stuff people told you to have a thicker skin about and just tough out. So please keep that in mind when I say you need to sit down, shut up and listen to what these people are telling you. You have no idea how bad they have it, and you have no idea how this sort of intentional and malicious misgendering fits in with the fabric of the background harassment and violence trans people face daily. They do. Listen and you might learn something.
This is the shit I’m trying like hell to spare my son from. I know how hard being everyone’s punching bag and how damaging that can be, but I’m absolutely certain that no matter how bad that was it pales in comparison to what you went through. I wish that never happened to you or anyone else. That’s just terrible.
That’s it. I’m fucking done. I’m out of fucks thanks to you complete jackasses. You know what? I’m a fucking trans woman. I’m a trans womanw ho’s not OUT anywhere that matters in real life, because I’m in fucking georgia, and texas before it, and florida before it, and surviving to be with my wife is kinda the tippy top priority. I grew up as a guy. I grew up as a NERD, in a fairly anti-intellectual place (South Alabama/Northwest Florida, whichever you feel like calling it). You don’t have the slightest fucking idea what you’re talking about.
Nerds don’t face the threat of death for being nerds. Nerds /can/ be targetted by a bullying campaign that can ultimately lead to suicide, but they are WAY down the list compared to, you know, gay and trans kids. People who /actually/ transgress cultural norms, not people whoa re just kinda off super involved with their own tastes (Seriously, Nerds actually have incredibly mainstream values on the whole. Nerd hasn’t been counterculture since the 70s, at LEAST). You think your ‘attitude, dress, and behavior’ was way out of line? Nah, not in the same way. Take it from someone who was in ratty, unfashionable clothes, and also in proper clothes for her gender – it’s not the fucking same. Waitresses can contain their disgust with you. You won’t be denied service. You’re allowed to go on a date. You’ll have automatic respect with most employers in more desirable work, because you know how to present yourself as an intellectual; that’s bad if you want to work in a factory or in an autoshop, sure, but it’s great for most things that are half decent. The worst that’ll happen is some of your coworkers will make some stupid Big Bang Theory jokes in the adult world (which I remind you, Carla’s in).
You will NEVER see a death threat for being a nerd. You will see death threats, because nerds are fucking awful and thinking losing a CoD or Planetside match/zone is sufficient reason to want someone dead, but not to the extent that an out gay or trans person, or a woman, will receive on the net; and that’s from the people who are allegedly so persecuted. You know what actually persecuted groups rarely do? Threaten fucking death and doom, because they’ll catch the ire of the mainstream who actually will fucking kill them.
You know what I promise you don’t understand because of your nerdery? The fear of death, when looking at your wardrobe. You open it up, and you see all nice things, and you know that if you wear them, you are taking a concrete risk that will kill you. Actually, factually, kill you. To say nothing of ‘regular’ physical violence. And while I get the safety of knowing I’ll be in a genuinely, truly safe place in less than a year, that’s you know, fucking later. And I’ve lived with this fear for the last… oh nearly a decade now.
And again, I have the fucking comparison point of experience here. I grew up as a male nerd in an anti-intellectual town. As a /brown/ one in a pretty racist town. It kinda sucked. People were jerks to me, and people made me a pariah among non-nerds. Thank Youkhrist for the geek social fallacies, because frankly without them they probably would have thrown me out too. But I didn’t have to fear being beaten. Even without the webbernets, I still had a good number of friends, and if I were the sort of person to WANT to do things, I could find people to do things with. It was bad, and worse than it needed to be, but it ain’t got shit on being openly queer in the USA – which because of the massive risks, I began to only do when one of us visit (And let me tell you, not having to think about where we’re going because I /know/ it’s safe in Denmark is qualitatively different. Even if I could pass, it’s still two ladies on dates. I had to seriously consider where it would be safe when she visits me).
And yeah, sure. Mary’s ‘just being mean’. By denying Carla’s existence in a fundamental way that is a contributing factor to the /41 fucking percent suicide rate/ among trans people in the USA. That’s ‘just being mean’, right? That’s /just like/ when some dudes say you’re not manly (Even though most of fiction and pretty much /all/ historical ideas of manliness are 100% in the tank for you, the dignified intellectual), right? It sounds kinda similar, so it must be the exact same, and of course I know what I’m talking about, I’m a nerd, we like to look at the history of things.
Fucking HELL, why do I have to share hobbies with you? You idiots need to get the hell out of my interests. Some small number of you were there first, but jesus fuck you’re complete and total assholes who need to go off and learn to be better people.
And I’m so glad that you’ll be able to get somewhere safer in the medium term.
And as someone who went to grad school in Denmark and first started exploring outward presentation stuff there, I can say it really was night and day as far as treatment. Though, take that with a grain of salt as I am white and I know that treatment of Trans Women of Color tends to be different everywhere in the world.
Racial politics are completely different in Europe anyway. Like, not ‘everything is fine’, obviously, and I don’t know that I’d say ‘better’ but they are different. Hispanic people don’t have nearly as big a problem there, and before importing racial ideas from USian media in I think the 70s? We were white in Denmark specifically. Immigration barriers based on racism still affect me (Specifically, racism against middle easterners), but the fact that I’m meriken (and so much racial politics is ultimately founded on national identity, at least for Denmark) means I’ll likely be alright-ish. A damn sight better than here, at least.
To be fair, Ruth has ever only been explicitly shown doing bodily harm to three people: Amber’s Douchedad, Mary and Billie. Douchedad and Mary deserved it every time, and she did it to Billie because she wasn’t sure how to convey the fact that she was crushin’ on her.
Onto the threats of physical violence, aside from Billie and Mary (see above reasons), I don’t think she’s actually threatened anyone aside from the initial femur threat at the beginning of the year.
I’m sorry but nobody deserves to be physically or physiologically(because her threatening harm is this) abused. Except for Amber’s dad cause fuck that guy.
Mary is shit because she’s close minded and assumes she’s on a higher plane of superiority than everyone because of how she was brought up.
Ruth is shit because she’s an alcoholic who has a position of power over a large group of people even though she herself isn’t fit to lead shit. I mean her whole relationship with Billie just feels like it’s leading up to a fucking suicide pact.
Good thing we have Dina who is always full of hope and cheer. Always.
I know I don’t. She’s said words – horribly hurtful words, but still just words – and people have likened it to physical violence. I’d like to think that it’s a knee-jerk reaction from people who’ve suffered similar verbal attacks simultaneously with physical abuse, but unfortunately, even something as awful as that is looking like wishful thinking.
I don’t understand, and I’m glad I haven’t been through what would be necessary to.
Not exactly bodily harm, but she did throw Joyce’s gloves out the window (how she actually got them I don’t know…), and she crashed the dorm party which violated Joyce’s right to privacy. She also dragged Sarah to the floor meeting (which might be considered using force that she was not allowed to do.) Plus, some of her interactions with Sal might be
Remember when Ruth crashed the party, she burst in, then declared “that counts as knocking”, suggesting that she doesn’t have the authority to enter rooms uninvited (but still did so anyways).
I suspect they’d have to follow some sort of “probable cause” justification. Otherwise, you could have an R.A. (who is themselves a fellow student) abusing their authority and just entering rooms to (for example) spy on students.
Uh, not knowing how to express your attraction to somebody doesn’t excuse assaulting people. Especially when you’re in college, not fucking kindergarten. Ruth is a horrible RA, and while I can empathize with her over her depression, the students in her hall shouldn’t have to suffer for it. And Mary is an absolutely vile person, but she didn’t deserve to be slapped for being an asshole about the ding-dong bandit issue. (There are other things I could see slapping her for, like the last to comic strips, but the time she actually DID get slapped was uncalled for.) The only person who actually DESERVED being hit by Ruth was Blaine, because he’s an abusive monster and because Ruth was trying to protect Amber when she did it.
^^^ This. They are both terrible, unlikable people. At least with Ruth, we have seen some back-story and there is an explanation of why she acts out; but that does not excuse her behavior.
Mary, on the other hand… Well there’s nothing there. It is who she is to be a spiteful harridan. I wonder what skeletons she’s hiding.
Ugh. Mary has actually managed to make me hate her more in these to panels then Ross did in any strip before he pulled out the gun. Hell she’s still on an equal playing field with all of the other straight up villains in this comic.
Hm, how much trouble can Ruth get in for the Becky thing? While she IS supposed to be on top of things, Becky has been moved around (from Joyce’s room to Billie’s) and intentionally hidden by students who felt sorry for her after the Toedad fiasco. I feel like at most her supervisor would give her a talking to?
Now having a relationship with Billie, THAT can get her fired; but only if Mary has proof. Still, I’m guessing the accusation alone can get her in trouble :/
As much as I hate it, gotta hand it to Mary: she’s created a situation where she gets to spew transphobia either way: if Ruth busts her she’ll tell on Ruth and the R.A. getting fired thing will be a bigger concern for the administration (knowing how colleges handle this sort of thing) than hate speech so she won’t be punished and if Ruth doesn’t do anything because of the threat then Mary gets to go in her merry way as the worst person since Toedad. What a magnificent bastard she is.
Hmm. Well, the only thing I can think of is that it old lend some circumstantial evidence to Mary’s report if Becky is caught, because she is staying in Billie’s room. Therefore, Billie has to have been staying somewhere else. That might be enough “evidence” depending on who is asking the questions. Especially is they find Billies clothes in Ruth’s room. On the other hand, considering what happened with Becky’s dad, they would probably let the issue drop other than asking Becky to leave. Girl was kidnapped at gunpoint on campus, no way the university wants any more bad press from throwing the book at her.
Plus, imagine the possible positive press of letting Becky stay. “University helps kidnapping victim” is a much better headline than “College kicks lesbian kidnapping victim while down”.
It’s not like they never have taken in people that don’t go to IU. Last I knew, they put up a sizable number of refugees made homeless by Huricane Katrina. There were at least some still living in their dorms 5 years later. For all I know, some might still be there.
Can they prove that Billie was not staying in her own room though? Sal is VERY unlikely to rat her out and Ruth could just say that the clothes are hers (size difference aside, I really doubt the investigation would be so thorough as to check the clothing tags).
Unless Billie comes out and admits she has been staying with Ruth, it’s Mary’s words against Ruth’s.
Copied my comment here with my real email address, Willis feel free to delete the repost since I cannot do it
Hm, how much trouble can Ruth get in for the Becky thing? While she IS supposed to be on top of things, Becky has been moved around (from Joyce’s room to Billie’s) and intentionally hidden by students who felt sorry for her after the Toedad fiasco. I feel like at most her supervisor would give her a talking to?
Now having a relationship with Billie, THAT can get her fired; but only if Mary has proof. Still, I’m guessing the accusation alone can get her in trouble :/
As much as I hate it, gotta hand it to Mary: she’s created a situation where she gets to spew transphobia either way: if Ruth busts her she’ll tell on Ruth and the R.A. getting fired thing will be a bigger concern for the administration (knowing how colleges handle this sort of thing) than hate speech so she won’t be punished and if Ruth doesn’t do anything because of the threat then Mary gets to go in her merry way as the worst person since Toedad. What a magnificent bastard she is.
It’s why I’ve pretty much always been on Roz’s side during her conflicts with Joyce, because no matter how superficially nice and polite a fundamentalist may seem they still view you as a lesser human being if you don’t fit perfectly into their little box of acceptable behaviours and identities and you never know when they’re going to drop the veneer of niceness.
Yeah, plus Joyce has consistently shown her worst face with Roz thus making it harder for trust to build, accusing her of trying to recruit her to her witch’s coven and rambling about the importance of angry Gods sending floods to ark builders.
Combine that with suffering Mary day in and day out, and you get a lot of Roz’s “backing away slowly now” interactions with Joyce.
Roz isn’t always nice, and can be a little self-superior, but her motives are good.
Mary is never nice, fuelled by self-superiority, and tries to impose her wants on others.
And here we have Ruth finally getting called on her abusive, irresponsible, and negligent behavior as an R.A., which will be completely ignored and dismissed because Mary said some hurtful things and therefore is never right about anything ever.
Dumbing of Age: “It’s Okay As Long As Someone Is Worse Than Me!”TM
Transphobia is a horrible, horrible thing, and I apologize if I appeared to be diminishing the effects of Mary’s words, as that was not my intention. I was merely expressing regret that this is the closest we have come to Ruth’s behavior catching up to her and it looks like it’s going to be brushed aside. No offense was meant.
Um. Yes it was. You meant offense. You just insulted everyone who’s been upset by Mary’s literal hate speech, because you care more about some other issue, and you think we should too.
So, no. Apology not accepted. Reconsider your life.
Actually most of what she’s being called out on has nothing to do with Ruth’s “abusive” behavior. Much of what Mary was calling her out on (‘defiling a cheerleader’) is nothing but homophobic bunk.
Ruth is not a good R.A. She is abusive, but that wasn’t one of the points Mary brought up.
Having a relationship with one of her charges is an abuse of power, homophobia aside. Mary was referencing a concrete example of her abusive nature, and (because she’s Mary) paired it with her own homophobia.
Did not think I could hate Mary any more than I already did. I was wrong. I’m so angry, I almost want to cry. With yesterday’s and today’s update… just…. ughhhhhhh. How can you be THAT DESPICABLE? And yet I know that people like this really exist, which makes this even more chilliing. Just. Ughhhhhhhhhhhh. I HATE HER SO MUCH.
She’s an amazing villain, because she is the combined id of the ideology of the dominant. She’s the living embodiment of every microaggression and casual bigotry, the threat that comes out of nowhere and then gets away with it because it trades on power and privilege.
And it’s why I would hope every last person who was defending her in this arc looks hard at exactly the type of person they’ve been defending and how awful she really is.
No I’m sorry but I disagree, Mary is an awful, horrible, nasty person yes but speaking only for myself I was judging her and Carla on the situation they got themselves into not the people they are
So do I think Carla is to blame for the situation? Not entirely no but she has to carry some of the blame (as does Mary)
But do I think Carla deserves or is to blame for what came out of Marys mouth in the last strip? Absolutely not, there is not excuse nor provocation for that and I hope Mary gets punished however they do that at the college
Carla was being moderately annoying, and violated a dorm policy. Mary destroyed property (an actual crime) and is spouting hate speech. Carla is not the responsible party here and your victim-blaming is pretty despicable. Every character is responsible for her own actions, and Mary is entirely in the wrong here.
Had she, say, reported Carla for skating indoors, and thus gotten her in trouble, that would have been one thing, and Carla would have been in large part to blame, but Mary’s decision to cause property damage, let alone spout transphobia, could not have been predicted by and cannot be blamed on Carla.
Ok so first up Carla was skating in the halls, Mary asked her to stop and Carla continued, Mary then tried lying in the corridor to stop Carla and Carla then jumped over Mary.
So at this junction its Carla thats making the situation worse and I’m 55-45 on Marys side in this situation (and only this situation)
Mary squirts glue on the floor and stops Carla skating, I disagreed with this as Mary was destroying college property and now (to me) its 50-50 because Marys lost her moral high ground
Carla can’t go to an authority about her skates because shes in the wrong (and she knows it) so she gets her revenge on Mary by stomping up and down and making Mary angry (I’m still 50-50)
Mary takes off down the hall and Carla is quite pleased with the reaction because it did look like she wanted a reaction (and I don’t blame her because they skates were probably expensive) so up to this point I’m 50-50 over who to apportion blame to
However the next strip where Mary opens her mouth is completely inexcusable and theres no justification for it at all
If Mary hadn’t been an asshole who shouldn’t be living in a group environment, she’d have never known Carla was breaking any rules.
Making noise in the hallway is not against the rules, except for certain times, which the middle of the day a month into the school year is not.
Skating in the hallway is against the rules, because it’s a safety hazard.
Like lying in the hallway, or gunking it up with glue – and Carla was only being safety hazard through carelessness, Mary was doing it deliberately, and with actual malicious intent to injure.
That is so true, she’s like the worst kind of internet comment section come to life. So filled with hate and finally she feels like she has a platform for it to let it all out and this wall of abuse just comes out.
She is the worst kind of person and yeah, a good villain, but not one people are gonna root for (at least not sane people). I always like a good morally grey villain you secretly kiiiiinda root for, you know, like Kylo Ren lol. But Mary is actually beyond that. She’s just evil and full of hate and just thinking about her makes me aggressive, so I’m gonna stop now :p
Has anyone been defending her since yesterday’s strip went up? Because hey, that was indefensible. Today, while someone does need to stand up to Ruth, but it happening in one of the cases where she’s doing her job right is a sick joke.
However, earlier in the arc, none of this had happened. And frankly, at the start of this arc there was a lot of the idea of ‘it’s ok to harass someone who wants to be left alone if they’re a bad person’ which is a horrid thing to argue.
Also, to everyone who is taking this particular comic to whine about “how you couldn’t have known at the time” and “back then, super justified, blah blah blah…”. Yeah, no, Mary’s awfulness has been on display for awhile. Mary’s disproportionality and unreasonableness has been on display in literally every appearance she has had.
This is a new peak, but it really shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone who was previously defending her.
But it was really easy for a lot of people to do so.
Honestly, I was surprised anyone would ever try defending Mary after she went after Dorothy that one time. That was, what, three years in real life time? How did that not cement for people that she was a horrible person? How has yesterday’s comic not completely sealed that fact? I just don’t understand people sometimes.
Well, like you said, it was THREE YEARS in real life time. I haven’t reread the series in at least a year, and the slow updates make it easy to forget things. I didn’t remember her going after Dorothy at all. All I remembered was that I dislike her, and that she’s vaguely smug and way too pushy about her religion. Which is bad, but not something I’m going to take into consideration when she literally hadn’t mentioned religion at all during this little feud with Carla. The whole thing seemed like a clear-cut case of “Bugs Bunny vs Daffy/ Feuding Neighbors that you see in comedy shows, and honestly, I thought Willis had just put it in here for comic relief after the Toedad thing. So, while I really didn’t like Mary, I thought it was ridiculous that everybody was arguing about who’s more “in the wrong”. Because they were both acting horrible, albeit in a hilarious way.
Now, as soon as she said what she said to Carla, I didn’t care that “Carla started it”. Nothing excuses what Mary did. She is a disgusting person, and the transphobia and blackmail and calling lesbians “perverts” just cements that for me. But it’s ridiculous to say that people who were defending Mary BEFORE that happened are somehow transphobic or horrible people. Most of them weren’t defending her because “Carla is trans and that makes it right to bully her.” Most people were defending her because “Mary is acting like an asshole and Carla is acting like an asshole. They’re both being awful, and neither of them seemed to have gotten hurt, so why waste time trying to blame just one of them?”
I have not defended Mary since she gave the stink-eye to a 12 year old for being Roz’s sister. I’m not sure that I defended her before then, either. In many ways Mary is too much like my own fundie sister for my comfort(racist, homophobic, anti-abortion, believes every word in the bible is true. )
It is an odd position when your most bigoted character does, at the same time, have a good point. Things at that wing are on the brink of falling apart.
Takes me back to Dolores Umbridge. Specifically, a horrible and near-unforgivable character; but generally, that school really did need an inspector, or at least someone to make an effort to reduce the yearly body count.
I can think of about 30 people and/or ‘bots that are just like Umbridge in that sense. Namely, the two that come to mind are:
Galvatron. He’s technically right about our heritage, honor, and Nova’s intent for the Cybertronian race and whatnot, but he’s still an imperialistic jackass about it.
The Templars from Assassin’s Creed. They’re right in that our world is a mess, but the complete removal of free will is NOT by ANY MEANS the solution. (Cough cough, sound familiar?)
Well, rules are being broken left and right because Ruth is a decent person but a shit RA. I dunno if falling apart is the right expression but the dean is going to be really unamused if he comes down to take a look.
There’s only a couple major rules being broken here.
There’s Becky who’s crashing here longer than she’s allowed. Hurting nobody beyond the fact that she’s arguably distracting Joyce from her studies. I wouldn’t say it’s a major point against Ruth’s observational skills, since the whole community is working in tandem to keep Becky a secret from her, and it’s still only been a couple weeks or so without Ruth noticing.
Then there’s Ruth’s own relationship with one of the dorm residents. Obviously that’s a problem in multiple ways and it reflects on Ruth a lot, but it’s just the one thing. Wouldn’t say Mary “Has a point” where that’s concerned either. She seems to feel that the relationship has distracted Ruth from her R.A. duties, when from what we’ve seen Billie has actually been pushing Ruth to be a more active R.A. I don’t think that a single Ruth would necessarily have caught on to the Becky situation any quicker.
Outside of these two things, the rules being broken are all just normal young adults goofing off like you’d find in any dorm. Carla gets a little noisy in the noon hours. Dorothy has a drink at a party. Not indicative of the dorm descending into anarchy or anything.
Becky has been illegally staying there, and their RA is a drunk mess with a history of violently assaulting students. Not to mention there are, you know, rules prohibiting staff and students from getting into relationships, no matter what their sexuality.
A) Mary does not have a point because is not complaining about anything that’s an actual problem. She doesn’t care that Ruth is dating a student, she cares that it’s a female student.
B) Umbridge not only wasn’t trying to reduce the body count, she made things worse by preventing students from learning to defend themselves.
The sudden turn to rampant transphobia represented in this story arc and defended by a small subsection of the associated internet community here sure has me feeling suicidal.
I wish I had a link for some cute kitten and or puppy pictures to help lighten the mood, but I don’t 🙁 and it is very depressing and just…disappointing that a subsection of the community here is defending the transphobia.
My reply with resources is stuck in moderation, so I want to quickly say, please stay with us, Elana. You are an awesome person and you are wanted here on Earth.
Yeah this whole thing took a pretty fast nose-dive from “Loony Tunes-esque shenanigans” into “Oh right, a significant portion of the population views me as subhuman I had almost managed to forget that.” Hopefully next strip will involve an emergency femurectomy.
Elena,
Hey, some of us support you unconditionally!! OK?
Your sexuality and gender are special and rare skills, TALENTS, and gifts.
Its valuable , and you here for a potential purpose , determination to share those with us.
( or not, if you so choose ) .
Its not just me saying so, Its in the Literal Dictionary!!Seriously :
*Bent*
… adj 1. not-straight, Deviating from a straight line: , curved, warped
adj2 On an unwavering course of action:
decided, determined, fixed, intent, resolute, set.
…determined to do or have something.
synonyms: intent on, determined on, set on, insistent on, resolved on, hell-bent on; committed to, single-minded about.
“he’s bent on going to law school”
( seems positive and accurate to me )
The haters are just ignorant people who have been oddly warped by society to have terrible taste. LIke if an infant was locked in a room for 20 years with nothing but a Sears catalog from 1977 .
( Yes , the dictionary also says “corrupt” — but after the 101 other nice things, we can just throw out that one slight as queerphobic bias.
Thats like saying: ‘Nyaa, Nyaa, I dont like your determined , innate talent , capacity, flair , genius and gifts. ‘
Totes, it doenst even make sense with all those other compliments. Which is exactly what the haters are saying. The dictionary SAYS so .
Elena, At the end of the day, you can believe your supporters AND the Dictionary of the English Language. ( or the people with bad taste.)
I guess its just my BENT.. to remind you
I’m truly sorry you feel this way. And though I can’t do much to help, even though I don’t know you, I support you in your struggle, and can only wish it wasn’t one. And please remember the truth in what you said, it’s a small subsection of the internet, consisting of individuals that are either bigoted or ignorant, most of us support you, and always will. We just need to be more vocal about it.
As much as I appreciate the character development that turned Ruth from a violent monster to a rounded human being with distinguishable flaws and merits…
I kinda want her to punch Mary through a wall and then comment: “You make some valid points. I’ll look into those things. Thank you for bringing them to my attention.”
Because it’s possible to hate more than one bigoted fundamentalist at a time. Thankfully Joyce has done a lot of growing and has largely moved past that though so now I can focus the full intensity of my loathing onto Mary.
I’d argue that hating Joyce even early on missed the entire point of the comic. She’s a good person who grew up in a cult-like environment, basically. Once exposed to the real world, circumstances and her goodness as a person overrode her programming.
I am a former fundie. I have homophobic (which in this case I am using to include transphobic) friends. I do not hate them. I do not think they are bad people. They just grew up being told that homophobia was the right thing to do.
Mary is different. She would be horrible even without the Fundamentalism. Ignore the fact that she professes to be a Christian. And then look at the stuff she’s done that has nothing to do with Christianity. It’s still awful.
Hate Fundamentalism all you like. I do, too. But hating the people? That’s dumb. It misses the point that good people can do bad things given the right circumstances.
If you just treat them as evil, you just become the enemy, and they’ll never learn.
You aren’t the target of their bigotry so it’s a lot easier for you to say “Oh, they’re not bad people.” It’s a lot harder to say that about people who treat you as subhuman and deride you for having the audacity to even exist. It’s a lot easier to excuse evil behaviour when it doesn’t impact you personally. Why exactly are minorities obligated to have sympathy and forbearance for their attackers?
Both sides of the spectrum can be bigots. Bisexual white female. I have been called a “fruit fly” by both sides of the spectrum. I got the crap kicked out of me- broken nose and left arm- from the homophobes. I had my trans friend spit in my eye and tell me I was a liar and a sell-out when I married a man, whom I love, dated for 5 years before marriage, and have been married to for 5 years. Said trans ex-friend won’t speak to me to this day. I have had people loudly praying for my soul when I came out by going to prom with a girl. I have been called a ‘skank’ and a ‘slut’ by the so-called Christians I went to Catholic school with. I have had the LGBT community tell me I must not actually be bi if I married a man…despite the long-term relationships I was in with women. It’s automatically assumed that I’m a slut who’ll bang anything that moves, since I ‘have no standards’, ‘would date anything’…despite the fact that my shortest relationship was a year.
It’s amazing how the so-called “minorities” will attack those who are supposedly their own. Just being in the minority doesn’t give you moral superiority. It doesn’t matter whether you’re straight, LGBT, Christian, or atheist- if someone isn’t EXACTLY. LIKE. YOU. you’re suspect.
Okay, except minorities aren’t defined by an ideology that promotes bigotry. Yes, they can be bigoted assholes like any other person but it’s not necessary to be part of that category. And if they ARE bigoted assholes then go ahead and hate them I don’t expect you to have sympathy and forbearance for their mistreatment of you either. Yeah, there is a disturbing amount of biphobia in the LGBT community and you have zero obligation to put up with any of it or be understanding about it. You are absolutely justified in thinking a biphobe is a shitty person. At no point did I say minorities are incapable of bigotry all I said was they do not have to extend patience or understanding to bigots,
I suppose. Everyone reacts strongly about their own pain. I guess I just reacted to your line about “Why exactly are minorities obligated to have sympathy and forbearance for their attackers?” It’s more, I wanted to say that “sometimes the minorities ARE the attackers” because I was hyper-sensitive. It seemed like some of the commenters above were saying ‘your pain isn’t as bad as my pain’ to other commenters, which is asinine. What seems like a minor thing to you may be a very tender and sore spot for them. I was reacting more to the tone of the entire thread than to your specific post- I had been thinking about the whole theme of conversation in general.
My mother-in-law is in denial and thinks her son ‘saved’ me with his penis. My family is largely homophobic. I guess I reacted more strongly because I want to say “Oh, they’re not bad people- they’ve just been taught bad things” like trikly. I like to think that bigots can still be good people, can be taught. I like to try and have that forbearance. When you said that trikly is ‘easy for her to say, she hasn’t been discriminated against’, I wanted to say that maybe people who have been discriminated against can learn to try and feel sympathy for the attacker- that they are good people with disgusting beliefs.
No, you aren’t. I understood what you were trying to say because you said it very well.
Although I personally cannot identify with the struggle you went through, as I am a straight male, I know and am friends with a few bisexual women. One in particular went through a very similar situation when she entered into a serious relationship with another woman a few years after we had broken up and decided we were better as friends. I was one of the few people in her life that didn’t discriminate and spew hateful things at her. To this day she tells me that I was her best friend through those years and I am extremely proud of her today. Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope it helps others.
Ah, geeze. I mean, I know this is gonna backfire on Mary in a major way in the end, but also it’d just be anticlimatic if Ruth managed to put an end to this right here and now. So presumably blackmail is gonna allow Mary to do her thing unimpeded for a while, and that’s gonna suck.
So Mary is lawful evil yea. Does she think she’s up against lawful neutral? Cos I’d put Ruth at chaotic something. I really don’t think they play by each others rules. That’ll go bad for someone.
She’s more Neutral Evil I’d say. She has no ideological issue with following rules she just disregards them when it suits her interests more not to follow them and she’s just as willing to follow and even enforce them when it’s to her benefit.
Ruth is neutral evil. Mary is pretty lawful evil though even with the blackmail. The thing about lawful (in the alignment sense) is that it doesn’t necessitate the law in question be the law of the land it just means they adhere pretty strictly to a code of conduct of some description.
Lawful neutral follows the laws whether they agree with them or not. Neutral evil twists laws to their own purposes to hurt people. Mary is the latter.
Ruth is chaotic neutral. Tear the world down because there’s no hope.
That’s lawful evil in a nutshell. Lawful evil has rules and it supports the preservation of order. Mary is very big on rules and order she doesn’t have the flexibility of neutral evil.
Ruth is not chaotic. She doesn’t have an ideological opposition to order or rules she follows or breaks them as it suits her rather than based on any particular belief in them as inherently bad or good. She is flexible when it comes to her approach to rules and thus she is neutral on the law/chaos axis.
Ruth is true-neutral, I’d say, though the typical nine don’t really express the depth of the characters. Maybe she’s rage-depressed-neutral.
Joyce is lawful-good, but the laws are becoming a problem for her. Becky is neutral-good or chaotic-good. Mike is chaotic evil.
I’m inclined to agree. Going by the nine-alignment system, I interpret evil as being about self-interest and disregard for the life and dignity of sapient beings, so Ruth is Neutral at best.
Self-interest isn’t inherently bad, mind you. If a selfish individual is smart enough to avoid being a dick in the interests of not reaping the consequences, so much the better.
What distinguishes Neutral from Evil and Good in the Traditional Nine? I would personally place self-interest as Neutral with Evil being more with intent to harm others, but I keep seeing things that say self-interest falls under Evil. What characteristics go with Neutral?
My understanding is that Good people want what’s best for the world regardless of the cost to themselves, Evil people want what’s best for themselves (and/or their close allies) regardless of the cost to the world, and Neutral people prioritize themselves or their friends and families in a crisis, but will try to make the world a better place when those interests aren’t in immediate danger.
Most people are Neutral, so the distinguishing factor between a utopia and a dystopia is whether most people feel secure enough to accept the risk of acting charitably on a routine basis.
It’s overly simplistic to blame this strictly on fundamentalism. Mary is a monster, plain and simple, her fundamentalism is just window dressing she uses to justify her monstrous behavior.
This strip demonstrates it very well. She might claim she’s only looking out for “christian values” (for certain definitions of values), but she wasn’t the least bit interested in voicing her objections, she saved them up so she could use them as leverage. From a religious standpoint, she’s not an apostle speaking out against evil, she’s one of the pharisees deciding to stone a prostitute to death to win an argument.
This is where Joyce needs to have just arrived home from class to see this, and steps in to slap that bongo-ass grin off Mary’s face before Ruth has to.
Because I DARE anyone in authority to get Joyce in trouble for it after what she’s been through (that they know of). If someone takes the time to explain the situation with Becky, and Mary’s words about Carla, to Leslie on the side, conveniently leaving out Ruth and Billie, Leslie would probably be able to vouch for emotional instability brought on by witnessing triggering hate speech. Joyce isn’t manipulative enough to think that far ahead, but she has some friends who might be.
And for the love of gods, no one tell Sarah about this shit going down.
That sounds horribly unbalanced if DoA operates on d20 rules, though I do have a soft spot for d100 systems.
…great, now I want to stat the cast for Dark Heresy and Pathfinder.
She likes lording her detachment from drama, but she’s also way too attached to the idea of “playing by the rules.” She tried discouraging Becky from staying from the start; this will just be more fuel to her “told you so” fire. “Oh, look, not only did I tell you so, but it ruined a bunch of other lives too, just like I knew it would.” Her level of pessimism isn’t really helpful at all in situations like this.
What . . . ? Sarah’s main argument seemed to be, before Joyce cut her off, that this wasn’t a sustainable solution. And she was, and is, RIGHT. SHe tries to not care, but in the end, she’ll do the right thing. Just like she did at the end of book one, and protected Joyce even though she said that she would wait and let what happen happen, so she could ‘I told you so’ after.
The best way I can see this going is to call her bluff. Take it up with the manager. Let things play out as it will. All parties will be at fault: Mary for destroying property, Ruth for abuse of her RA duties, and Carla for disrupting the floor. Becky may or may not be kicked out.
But the thing is that Ruth, Carla and Becky have a larger support group to lean on, and Mary has no one tangible to rely on. She will never receive support from her peers, not even in her darkest hour. One day she will regret making the world her enemy.
She could lose her housing and/or part of the money she’s using for tuition and/or living. Our RAs got free housing, a bunch of free meals, and a small stipend to spend on whatever.
So for this one comic can we not talk about the parts of Ruth’s character? Especially without noting how Mary is 110% in the wrong? I mean I can see why someone wouldn’t like her but….time and place.
No… but… it’s fraught. For a lot of individuals like me, this type of transphobia and homophobia is part of our daily background radiation, so comments that try and echo her garbage will carry that will tend to carry that with them, because, well, why was that the thing you found most worthy of commenting on there?
There’s a social context there that colors statements in the same way that someone talking about how unsafe it is for people to be walking home late at night becomes really callous and fucked if it is in the discussion thread of an article on sexual assault.
Like, continuing from Cerberus’ sexual assault analogy: as a survivor of sexual abuse, abuse and harassment, I get very fucking edgy when people start talking “safety tips,” “personal responsibility,” “risk management,” and the importance of self-defense when the topic is rape. Because it brings to mind all the victim-blaming I’ve experienced throughout the years – from the school I went to, from my parents, from other kids at school, etc. Because, context means there’s the unspoken, or sometimes spoken outright, implication that sexual assault victims bring it on ourselves. “If you don’t want to be raped…” “If you want to be safe…” “Why didn’t you just…?” “I don’t get why they don’t…”
I could go on.
Talking about trans people’s “contribution” to harassment etc they face (which is what focusing on Carla’s behavior after Mary starts being a transphobic ass) or non-het people’s “contribution” to their harassment (talking about Ruth’s behavior after Mary issued homophobic threats) is pretty much exactly analogous to talking about a rape victim’s “contribution” to their assault.
Which is a thing that happens, often directly to the face of a rape victim when the topic is their own assault (at least in my experience, anyway).
Just squeezing in (since comments were closed) to say thanks for clarifying yesterday that the previous hints that have been dropped about Carla. I went back over everything and did I ever feel like an oblivious idiot for needing to ask. You were right – strongly hinted at! I was amazed I missed it. Appreciate you taking the time to explain.
Also LOVE that sketch, Yotomoe. Their expressions are priceless.
Hey now, let’s not pretend Carla is a saint just because Mary is vile. She really did pick that fight and followed her around to keep harassing her. Did she deserve THAT comment in response? No, but she was clearly trying to get some kind or rise out of her — just not one that actually hurt.
To be honest, while I think Mary is scum for reaching for that kind of a blow, I don’t really feel all that much more sympathy for Carla than I would for someone who tried to start a fist fight with someone who secretly had a knife in their pocket.
Well that got disconnected from the comment it was replying to. Seems a bit more harsh without the accusation of bigotry towards someone else pointing out that Carla started it that it was in reply to.
See? This is what I’m talking about. I already said that Mary’s behavior was inexcusable, but that in no way makes Carla nothing but an innocent victim here, and pointing that out does not make me a bigot nor Mary’s supporter.
You know that not all conflicts have to have a “good guy,” right? Carla is still a jerk who sought out that confrontation. Mary sinking to a whole level below her doesn’t change that. You don’t get a free pass on behavior just for suffering prejudice, especially not after the fact.
Carla didn’t seek out a thing. She kept skating when Mary went on a power trip. Then Mary committed battery. Them Carla confronted her about it, and Mary started in with the hate speech. Skating is not a targeted act. Mary faced no harm, except to her ego.
You say you think it’s inexcusable but you keep trying to make Carla responsible for it, comparing it to someone starting a fist fight.
Carla is not more responsible for having transphobia thrown in her face just because she was breaking a rule earlier. This idea that someone being the victim of bigotry is unsympathetic because they aren’t perfect is ridiculous.
You have just literally invoked “the fallacy of the innocent victim”
Its a major trope of bigotry. That you are ( accidentally , out of ignorance ? )
invoking Bigoted tropes ought to give you pause .
Carla doesnt need to be a newborn baby to be worthy of protection against transphobia in her home
I never said she wasn’t. But protection does not equal a free pass to act however she wants with no consequences either. Both should be punished in a just world.
tell you what, we wont pretend: “Hey now, let’s not pretend Carla is a saint just because Mary is vile.” because its unnecessary, insulting and absurd.
Guess what, you are clearly “not a saint” either.
People dont need to be Imaginary Perfect Holy Relics to need protection from bigots.
“She really did pick that fight”
How dare the Trans Girl innocently skate quietly on the rug ?
“and followed her around to keep harassing her”
No, she followed her to make her responsible for her property damage.
Innocently skating down the hallway = “tried to start a fist fight with someone who secretly had a knife in their pocket’ ?
Please seek Professional help.
Under “Check your Privilege” in the dictionary, it now says “See also Valdrax”
Why are you getting personal and whitewashing Carla’s behavior? You seem to have decided one of the sides is unforgivable, and so everything the other side does must be. That’s not logical nor just. Both are jerks, and both should be condemned, albeit not necessarily equally. There’s no point in taking sides.
Don’t put Carla up on a pedestal just because she’s trans. Demanding special treatment for her ill behavior because of her status is the very definition of “privilege.” She should be judged on her actions and not what genitals she was born with — and her actions were bratty, childish, and took clear joy from bothering her neighbor.
Carla being wrong does not make Mary right. Mary being wrong does not make Carla right. The world is not black and white. It’s possible for two people to both be wrong without declaring them a moral zero-sum equivalent.
So… Arguing with people is not about who can use the most buzzwords. You have to understand them. And you really clearly don’t know what we mean when we say “privilege.” Or, for that matter, “whitewashing.” And possibly “zero-sum,” I’m not sure.
Ugh @ people still saying stuff like Carla is to blame or this is all because Mary wanted some quiet time to study! NO IT IS NOT. Yes yes, ok, Carla was being incosiderate and a bit annoying, as you just sometimes ARE when you’re an 18/19 year old college kid, but then Mary not only COMPLETELY OVERREACTED by damaging Carla’s property and endangering Carla’s health by tripping her up with glue, no THEN SHE GOES ON TO SAY THE MOST VILE TRANSPHOBIC AND HOMOPHOBIC TRASH you can possibly imagine.
How, HOW, does anyone deserve to be deliberately tripped up, have their property damaged and have vile abuse and hate speech directed at them just for being a bit annoying!? No one deserves this. No matter what they’ve done or not done. Period. Mary is actually committing several crimes here (def. endangerment and hate speech) and her behavior CAN NOT be defended by anyone who is actually a decent person. Sorry. But that’s just true. NO MATTER what you think of Carla (or Ruth for that matter, she doesn’t deserve this either!), Mary is so far out of line, so far outside of any kind of decent moral human behavior, there is just no coming back from this. Just. Mary defenders, man. They fucking GET TO ME.
The really problem with defending her is Mary didn’t have to escalate, she could of grabbed some headphones and turned her music up super loud. Carla woulda probably of been gone pretty quick anyhow.
Hostile actions will get hostile responses. Carla knew she was breaking the rules and knew at least one person was bothered by it, so she lost the 100% victim status when she decided to stay and provoke a conflict instead of going outside where she could carry on having fun without issues. You’d think a rebel would like to be left alone. I’d be on her side if she genuinely thought nobody cared and suddenly got attacked, or if she was skating outside and Mary tried to enforce some made up rule like not going over a certain speed.
The fact that Mary then tries to humiliate Carla or threaten Ruth is just her general ugliness bubbling to the surface, but it doesn’t change the previous situation where Person A is in their room studying (despite claims that it’s a banal thing to get upset about, this is college, studying is or should be kind of a big deal) while Person B is determined not to let that happen because I’m bored and you will entertain me whether you want it or not. I don’t support Mary’s actions in this strip or the previous one but getting increasingly frustrated with a dismissive neighbour who tells you to call the police while they keep doing the thing you asked them to stop doing until the point where you want to break stuff is something I can relate to.
Listen, I understand getting frustrated. Everyone gets frustrated. People who are making a ruckus when you just want your peace and quite can be annoying as FUCK. I am not in any way disputing any of that. I am not in any way defending Carla’s actions.
What I *am* saying is that Mary 100% overreacted and took it to a level that was endangering Carla’s health and safety and then she verbally abused her in yesterday’s and today’s strips.
‘Hostile actions will get hostile responses’ is a bullshit argument. If someone is annoying you, even if they’re annoying you REALLY BADLY, that is *no excuse* to harm them, detroy their property and unleash hate speech at them. NO EXCUSE. And if you, actual you, in real life, don’t see that, then I don’t know what to say. Do you regularly physically and emotionally harm people who annoy you? I am guessing you don’t. So why are you defending it?
People will cheer Ruth on if the next strip consists of her repeatedly piledriving Mary and I don’t think this means you guys piledrive people often in real life, so I don’t see why that’s a factor.
And to reiterate, I don’t think Carla’s behavior justifies Mary behavior here, I just don’t think your role in a fight is diminished because the other guy ended it with a low blow.
I for one would never – and have never – advocate for physical violence from anyone directed at anyone. If Ruth punches Mary, Ruth is out of line for many, many reasons and also commits a criminal offence. I would hope people in the comments would see it the same. I know it can be satisfying in fiction to see an evil person get punched, but I hope with all that I can muster that Ruth does not succumb to this urge and that it doesn’t happen. Again, I am also not saying Ruth is perfect. She is an alcoholic with major anger issues and probably should not be an RA. But she also does not deserve any of the hate speech Mary says to her here. But I promise you, if Ruth punches Mary, I would not defend Ruth. Ever.
Also, there’s a difference between ‘low blow’ and hate speech.
It’s good that you’re against violence, but if you look around you see posts suggesting fun things for Ruth to do to Mary. I mean, sure, it’s a comic and people hoping she dies in a fire don’t actually burn people in real life, but it makes me wonder why “I don’t see a problem with leading her into a Wily Coyote trap for being annoying” makes you a bad person while “I don’t see a problem in removing her femurs for spouting hate speech” is seen as just harmless wish-fulfillment. As far as I can see they’re both silly stuff you wish you could do to someone who pisses you off, like I fantasize about stomping all over my neighbor’s stereo.
Where was this fucking concern for violence when Amazigirl fought Sal, exactly? I mean, I cared, but I was one loooooonely gal there. Why is it we’re super concerned with violence when it might actually be used to protect somebody’s rights, and not for a stupid revenge trip? Bear in mind, I have asked one of my friends to never threaten to defenestrate someone again (and this was a completely serious threat for the same reason as Ruth)
It’s all ‘cartoon violence is irrelevant’ until someone might actually use a Fist of Death for something vaguely resembling a good reason, and then suddenly violence is wrong. Why the fuck is that? Where the hell were you? Because I was saying “Joyce beating Toedad into the dirt was wrong”, as someone personally affected by Toedad. What about you?
Jesus fuck, I hate it when people try to use the principles of pacificism to stick it to marginalized people. Yeah, sure, you get to have fucking bloodfests like the Punisher, and have your violence handwaved in real fucking life (See: Every single white rebellious group in the USA, from Y’all-qaeda to the Sons/Daughters of Liberty and people’s strict refusal to call them terrorists) , but the second one of us thinks maybe violence is okay because it’s going to be enacted on us anyway, we’ve got to put Jesus’ printed word to shame in terms of our desire for peace? Fuck that shit, and I *AM* a pacifist.
No, it ordinarily would be their business, but now they’re trying to say “PACIFICISM IS A MUST” when violence on behalf, rather than against, a trans girl is in the realm of possibility. Now, it fucking matters why you didn’t oppose violence before. Because experience has taught me that the reason is, “They weren’t white, male, cis, straight, and of middle class or higher status”. Those are the requirements before you’re allowed to be violent. THEN, you are justified in violence for a particular cause. Your inability to parse why that matters is on you, not on me.
“Nearly no one irl, in this society, would act upon a threat of defenestration”
Completely irrelevant to when someone does, and will. Which I had to tell him to please never do, because violence was unnecessary and unhelpful in this instance.
“Stupid revenge trips are something people can understand easily and have empathy towards. Stupid revenge is human.”
You’re not even attempting to actually answer the question. Yes, stupid revenge trips are human. So is indignation. So is wanting to use violence for /good/. We have entire genres of fiction dedicated to the basic idea. In fact, we tend to justify real world violence as being acceptable, because it was for a good cause. This is sometimes even a justification I accept, such as that of Westerners who entered the Flying Tigers during WWII. The defense of others is one of the most basic concepts that we have actually gone out of our way to codify it as a legal principle – even PACIFICISTS generally accept that violence can occasionally be used for good reasons, we’re just extremely strict about that, and don’t accept anywhere near as wide a range of justifications as most people. But you know, Buhzim isn’t a pacificist. We’ve already seen them advocate for violence, for considerably less good reasons than ‘someone just had their rights impinged upon’, to boot. Sure, I don’t accept that as a good reason for Ruth to introduce Mary to the wall, but I also don’t accept “Someone was annoying me” as a reason for Mary to introduce Carla to the wall. If you accept the latter, and not the former, you should fucking examine why that is.
“I saw none of this in Buhzim’s post and you failed to point any of it out, though I’m more and more convinced you’re putting words into his mouth/fingers.”
Of course you didn’t. You’re an illiterate. See slightly above you for an obvious example of them calling for violence before, and now trying to call for peace.
“Because there is a very strict disconnect between cartoon violence and the real thing. The complexities thereof would take me pages to explain, but suffice for this to say that most implicitly understand the difference. Those who don’t should inform themselves (googleing it is a good start).”
So cartoon violence for /bad/ reasons is okay, but cartoon violence for /good/ reasons is not? FASCINATING. I wonder why that might be? Oh wait, no, I don’t.
”I -think- you’re saying that people are hypocrites for preaching pace when just violence is enacted upon them? Well, yes. People do this and it’s pathetic. And water is wet.”
No, you’re an illiterate, and misunderstood. What I said is that violence is acceptable until I do it, as a marginalized person. *I* must live up to a standard of peace, but YOU are free to live up to a standard that exalts violence. It’s fairly common – though it’s usually more liberal people doing it. A pretty obvious example in common thought is the Black Panthers, who primarily armed themselves because the police were engaged in unlawful violence against themselves, and they wanted to discourage it. It is acceptable for white people to arm themselves for any damn reason they please, but a black person is not permitted to arm themselves – they must enact a standard of peace, and are failing MLK Jr. (It was not generally acknowledged that they were doing so in the face of violence, so this is not the form of hypocrisy you seem to think I mean)
“Ah, so we’re talking American politics then. Gotcha’.
Oh, this is cute. You think this is a matter of merely american politics. Perhaps you should try learning of the sheer jackassery of, for instance, the British towards anyone who did not believe in the concept of peaceful resistance that Gandhi put forth. White people in europe often like to pretend it’s completely insane when someone is violent and angry too – if anything, they’re /more/ fond of the leftist peace movement talking down to anyone in a worse position than they, because they are genuinely more leftist. Yes, I used examples easier at hand, but you are soooorely mistaken if you believe it is some sort of quaint americanism. It’s really a shame, I’d like for leftists abroad to be better than here on this.
“Because there is a very strict disconnect between cartoon violence and the real thing. The complexities thereof would take me pages to explain, but suffice for this to say that most implicitly understand the difference. Those who don’t should inform themselves (googleing it is a good start).”
But we already had enough proof you were an illiterate, why are you giving us more? The point isn’t that it’s okay for Ruth to drive Mary through a wall from my perspective. It is a ‘rant’, in taht I am growing extremely tired of fucking cowards who will wholeheartedly accept violence until the second that violence is wielded by the marginalized. Again, you are speaking to a fucking pacifist. You are speaking to a pacifist who opposes violence that helps her immediate situation. I will not allow you fucking assholes to use an actual, factual ethical position meant for actual good as a fucking billyclub to bully people who least have the ability to live by its principles. It was meant for better things than white men telling everyone else to stuff it.
“Where was this fucking concern for violence when Amazigirl fought Sal, exactly?”
If you mean the part where AG attacked Sal’s group in the parking lot, that was wrong too.She was being an idiot and looking for trouble, which is my position with Carla as well. I wasn’t writing posts back then, I am now because I have free time.
“Because I was saying “Joyce beating Toedad into the dirt was wrong”, as someone personally affected by Toedad. What about you?”
See above. Though I symphatize less with him since he was using lethal force and was in the wrong from the very beginning.
“It’s very convenient to be a pacifist when the victim is marginalized.
Little bit harder to believe as a genuine principled stand when this was Buhzim’s position 3 days ago when it was Carla who was on the receiving end of violence from Mary:”
With this much sarcasm I can’t even tell if you’re criticizing me or Rutee, but if you mean that I think it’s okay for Carla to be attacked because she’s transgender, the answer is no. I am okay with her getting her comeuppance (glue in skates, not the hate speech) for being an annoying troll. Both are different matters for me. Yes, legally Amber/Joyce/Mary were in the wrong for attacking Sal/Toedad/Carla (maybe Joyce wouldn’t because it’s a big guy with a gun and she can’t be sure if he won’t get up and shoot her if she stops attacking), but that doesn’t affect what I would like to see in a comic strip.
Do you not understand how fucking dishonest you sound now? “Carla was looking for a fight”. Really. Just like amazigirl. You mean the girl who physically fucking engaged 4 people. Skating inside of a fucking apartment building is just like physically engaging 4 people after shouting threats of violence, you’re totally right. How did I not see that before?
Oh right, because I have sense. I have some small glimmer of basic human fucking decency. It’s not true. So yeah, no, this is about what I fucking expect. Violence against the marginalized is justified far more easily than violence /by/ or /for/ the marginalized. Carla was looking for a fight, just like amazi-girl was, by skating out in a fucking hall. But Mary isn’t looking for a fight by shouting hate speech right in a trans girl’s fuckin’ face. Fuckin’ beautiful, I couldn’t ask for a better example if I tried. Fuck off, forever. Just fuck off. Speak when you have learned a god damn thing or two about ethics and decency.
It should be noted, again, that Carla wasn’t making anything reasonably referred to as a ruckus until after Mary had escalated to attempts to injure and destruction of property.
Why? She’s a loud neighbor behaving like a loud neighbor.
Mary then decided to bring her gender into it which is not right but I consider that a sepatate event from the “You can’t do this here, leave now” “Haha I do what I want” fight from before.
I can think Carla is a jerk while also taking the view that Mary needs to be kicked out of school or serve criminal charges. Obviously, Mary’s behavior is a much-much-much bigger issue.
What context? Carla’s gender wasn’t relevant to the situation at all until Mary went for the slur, which is bad but doesn’t retroactively change their behavior during the skates argument. It was Person A using their toy to torment Person B until Person B breaks said toy. It’s why in the previous strip I said it would play the same if this was Mike incessantly playing guitar in the corridor until Sarah gets fed up with asking and takes her baseball bat to it. IIRC your reply to that (which I couldn’t reply to because comments were closed) was also “look at the context”, so
It’s the age old saying, “The right to swing my arms ends when they connect with another person’s nose.” Mary and Carla getting at it is aggravating and you could side with either. Hate-speech, especially after an incident like Toedad’s attack on students is disgusting and ends any sort of ambiguity about the situation. Even if Carla quote-unquote “started it”, Mary did something inexcusable and doesn’t deserve any further consideration.
“Mary and Carla getting at it is aggravating and you could side with either.”
Well, that was my point. But Cerberus is saying (I think) that I can’t side with Mary on the skating argument because that means I’m defending her as a person forever, so when Mary later went for hate speech and threats, that means I support her in this too. I think Mary was in the right for wanting to study without putting up with a skatepark by her door, but that’s it.
^ I concur. Too many people judge actions based on the person rather then the person based on his actions. The two can be separated and dissected for study independently of one another.
I can hate someone and agree with one of their actions while loathing most of their other actions, but regardless, I should never stop judging actions based on their own merits rather then the person making them. To invoke Godwin’s Law: not every action Hitler ever did was automatically horrible and wrong, even if he was a colossal congawaffle.
Because it’s the same Mary. And the same personality driving her to escalate the skate conflict is what drove her to escalate to the hate speech. For her, it’s all the same. There’s no dividing line.
While it was not a central issue then (though dear Bob there were enough red flags that Mary is a bully into disproportionate response and causing people suffering that way trumps the loud noises that skates on carpet aren’t (and yes, Word of God confirmed that to be the case)), it is now a glaring aspect of the current discussion.
Defending Carla hate now now comes with the context of neatly removing the transphobia on display last strip from the picture, which is not okay and becomes actively dismissive to trans people because it’s going “hey, if we erase the context of this really horrible bigotry and violence, then didn’t you deserve it?”
I’ve written before about my experiences with being blamed for “causing” my experiences with transphobia for various reasons, “shoving it in people’s faces”, “being so stupid as to be out”, “hurting the family”, “putting us in a difficult situation”, and so on. Seeing people echo that sort of logic by erasing the real weight of transphobia is very strongly reminiscent of that.
It also is an aggressive action of privilege. Separating out Carla’s reality as a trans woman in order to continue using her as a blank slate to vent your frustration with the minor nuisance of a loud neighbor is something you can do because you are presumably cis, not trans. Those experiences are not resonant to you or ones you can’t escape.
For individuals like me, trans is not something I can escape or separate out of a conversation, it affects how I am treated and what resources are available to me. This is also true of Carla because in comic, she is also trans.
And yes, it also retroactively changes the earlier situation. Because now we know that Mary has deep animosity for Carla and views her as inherently not belonging.
Ergo, she is more prone to view minor nuisances as more annoying simply because of the person doing it, she feels more justified in escalating to violence and hate speech to avoid simply accommodating the situation (do you really believe that she’d have escalated in the way she did if Carla was someone she respected like a doppleganger clone? (because Mary’s list of people she regards as subhuman is rather large)).
Essentially, her objectivity is severely called into question, especially in the context of Willis straight out saying last comic that Carla was skating on carpet and thus not very loud at all (certainly not much above usually Friday afternoon noise).
And this is backed up in the real world in the way that trans people and other marginalized individuals often have less social freedom to fuck up and make mistakes before they are viewed as “deserving” of negative treatment and how negative treatment gets justified much more quickly with less social or legal recourse to respond.
I can very much note how much differently my anger, my statements, and so forth are treated as an out trans woman compared to when I presented as a cis man and how much more frequently my experiences are dismissed, my qualifications are called into question, and how much more I must remain stoic to be taken seriously in most circles.
People are also a lot quicker to justify negative actions against me based on real or perceived slights and often times there’s a search for a reason to dismiss me or mistreat me implicit in a lot of conversations.
Carla being trans, Mary knowing about it, Mary thinking this is proof that Carla doesn’t belong radically changes the context of the earlier scenes and people who erase that to justify old worldviews are being openly dismissive of the reality of trans experiences with that sort of thing.
“Essentially, her objectivity is severely called into question, especially in the context of Willis straight out saying last comic that Carla was skating on carpet and thus not very loud at all (certainly not much above usually Friday afternoon noise).”
The first panel of this storyline shows she was locked inside her room when she hears noises that bothered her enough to make her go complain. She didn’t know Carla was the source of the noise. I could see “she was looking for an excuse to attack Carla” if they were in the corridor and Mary throws a meaningful glance towards Carla before complaining, but as it is I don’t see it as such. Whether the noise was really that loud or not doesn’t matter, it was loud enough for her and since it’s against the rules she was justified in asking Carla to leave. Carla decides to get even louder instead of leaving, which means she had a part in the escalating conflict. Which doesn’t justify everything Mary did later on, but it shows that Carla being transgender wasn’t a factor in the conflict until Mary decides to humiliate her with the “boys wing” joke.
“(do you really believe that she’d have escalated in the way she did if Carla was someone she respected like a dopleganger clone? (because Mary’s list of people she regards as subhuman is rather large)).”
Yeah? Mary’s defining characteristic is “not a nice person”. She outright told Billie once that she wears a permanent frown because “everyone has done something wrong”. It’s not like she’s nice to everyone BUT Carla. She was rude even to Roz’ sister, who simply asked her if she wanted to go to the cafeteria. If this was Mike playing trumpet by her door I believe she would have acted the same, up to the point where she would make a tasteless gay joke because he’s bisexual (according to Shortpacked).
Why are you so fucking /dedicated/ to defending a piece of shit for being a piece of shit. Are you getting money from the shit lobby? Do you know what you’re justified in doing, socially? PROPORTIONAL responses. Is Carla annoying you? Annoy her the fuck back – play Psalms on a speaker. Say Short Circuit was one of the worst movies of human existence. Tie her shoelaces together. Respond in motherfucking kind, you don’t fucking escalate. This is a lesson we aggressively teach CHILDREN. What the fuck is wrong with you?
I would argue that escalation is justified if you’re the one that was targeted to begin with. Sometimes response in kind gets you nothing, least of all revenge. For those times when eye for an eye doesn’t quite cut it we have the Chicago way (you send our guy to the hospital, we send your guy to the morgue).
This sed, it is never defensible to insult an entire group for one member’s transgressions – which is exactly the point where Mary jumped the shark this time. If she’d have slapped her or punched her in the face, I’d be quite willing to give her carte blanche for it; but what she did can garner no sympathy from me or most it seems – good.
As for your crude point on “Why are you so fucking /dedicated/ to defending a piece of shit for being a piece of shit.” – I’m pretty sure that the comment in question simply stated they’re both assholes. Which they are. That doesn’t defend anyone. I point you to “I don’t support Mary’s actions in this strip or the previous one”.
I suppose the simple answer would be ‘someone has to play devil’s advocate’ – in other words, perspective. Perspective is good.
Yes, use organized crime as your example of sound real world ethics. That doesn’t make you sound horrible at all. That absolutely showed how you were justified in escalation, yepperoni. Fucking hell. Escalation is not ‘okay’ because you idolize organized crime. ‘eye for an eye’ is already a horrible way to do things in the general. But at least here, with annoyance? Yeah, go nuts. Being annoying is a small harm in general, so once someone’s annoying to you, you can be annoying back, sure. You can go overboard, but at least here, ‘eye for an eye’ is not directly h armful on its face. It usually is, though.
“I don’t defend Mary in this strip or the previous one”, rather explicitly leaves “…but in the ones before she was fine”. In the ones before, she was still a piece of shit, she just wasn’t an obviously cissexist one. And ‘devil’s advocacy’ is almost always an excuse to be a little shit when it’s invoked in the modern era. You say ‘perspective is good’, but most of the people saying Mary was a jackass before yesterday were already saying “And Carla is one too, just less of one”. I’ve met one person who claimed ‘devil’s advocate’ as a reason to do a thing, and wasn’t horrible. I mean, sure, the historic devil’s advocates weren’t doing anything wrong (I wonder if you know the origin of the term off the top of your head), but in modern parlance, “BUT I’M A DEVIL’S ADVOCATE” is almost 100% an excuse to engage in jackassery.
Yeah, as a teacher, that whole “but but but teacher, he was being a dick, doesn’t that mean I get to hit him” thing was disconcerting and a little frightening before (because where was everyone’s kindergarten techers to say no to that shit). Now that Mary has dropped her little bombshell, it’s openly harmful and vile, because it means that the disproportionate response was part of a general belief that Carla fundamentally doesn’t belong and should be treated as a lesser being
I mean, it makes that whole skating incident into being about the fact that Carla existed in that hall. And it really only took one minor nuisance for Mary to escalate to breaking her cherished possession and dumping some very potent transphobia all over Carla.
That’s your headcanon. What the strip shows is Mary in her room studying, she hears noises, gets up to complain without knowing the source of said noise, then after trying dialogue, passive resistance and violence, none of which stopped the noise, she insults Carla and only then her gender becomes part of the issue. I don’t see the actions up to the glue trap as “hatred for Carla’s very existence” because her actions prior to the hate speech are pretty generic and could apply to anyone pissing her off with noises. Mary isn’t nice to everybody BUT Carla. Billie even asked her why she’s always looking at people with squinty eyes, and Mary’s response is “Everybody has done something wrong”.
Then you’re not very good at logical extrapolation, I guess? Mary was shown to be an obsessed self-righteous fundie from the start. Mary was shown being awful to lgb residents of the dorm. Do you think she’d just…conveniently be sweet as pie to the t part of that acronym?
“So you believe, erroneously, that Mary has engaged in these shenanigans with JOYCE when she was making noise?”
I don’t remember an instance where the two interacted, so I’ll use am imaginary conversation. I imagine that she would tell Joyce is that she “deserved” the rape attempt for “tempting” a “good christian boy” like Ryan, because it fits with her character. Which is horrible but doesn’t mean she would be wrong for telling Joyce that she can’t have Becky live in her room (it isn’t allowed, regardless of my sympathy for Becky’s situation).
–
“Then you’re not very good at logical extrapolation, I guess?”
My guess is that you’re an smarmy ass who thinks it’s okay to call people idiots as long as you don’t say the word. Any truth to that?
What I’ve seen is Mary being rude to every student in the dorm, including visitors like Roz’ sister. I don’t expect her to be nice to anyone, and anything I don’t see depicted in the comic is headcanon to me.
Oh, you don’t. Really. Okay, that’s great. Meanwhile, in the actual comic, the two have had multiple conversations. At no point has she told anyone else hat they’re a boy who should go to the boy’s wing for making noise. Check Mary’s tag, she’s not exactly an actually common character. The fucking point, which eludes you because you are /desperately/ searching to not be wrong, is that she is engaging Carla because it’s Carla. Mary does not react to ordinary background noise EXCEPT when Carla makes it. That indicates the problem is fucking Carla, and not the Background noise. But go on, keep missing the fucking point in favor of being a fucking waste of space.
Significant interactions, I mean. Not being in the same room while the other talks to someone else. The only real instance between them is Mary taking Joyce aside and telling her that as christians they should stay from Dorothy.
I’m not intentionally missing your point, I just don’t agree with you. Not that being called a “fucking waste of space” makes me want to put much effort into a reply, but I tried.
Mary does not need or deserve advocacy, but it’s worth remembering that Carla participated in the escalation too. Either one of them could have walked away at any time.
“Mary doesn’t need or deserve advocacy, but I’m going to stop for a moment and provide it anyway.”
Really. Okay. B|
Meanwhile, Carla has only escalated to petty annoyance. Mary has done every single escalation since. Even now, Carla only responds to Mary with petty annoyance, even though the situation has escalated well beyond that.
I’m not advocating for Mary, I’m condemning Carla, and only mildly at that. When I stopped & thought about it, her only contribution to the escalation was continuing to engage Mary – certainly forgivable, but if she’d been more mature & rational about it (Because people are always mature, and rational, right? Oh, wait.) she might have chosen to walk away from the issue.
I don’t mean to insult you or belittle your experiences, but you are far from objective here. Being wronged doesn’t mean Carla can’t have been in the wrong too.
Ditto for assholes who look for any excuse to claim that victims of hate speech are complicit in their own victimization because “they could have deescalated at any time”.
Like, that’s actually been used against me before. The time someone casually talked about circling back to kill me? Well, during that exchange I did stick my tongue out before the whole murder plot when he was just catcalling me and my gf for being “hot lesbians”.
No joke, I had a very ex-friend now say that that meant the death threat was partially my fault, because I could have “de-escalated” by not sticking my tongue out.
My parents took that to an extra awful area by blaming that entirely on me because “what was I thinking forcing my way of life down people’s throats and being outside looking like that (i.e. wearing a long skirt and a modest women’s tee)”.
It’s incidents in my past that just fill me with a special potency of rage for the endless flood of victim-blaming horseshit.
“Why are you so fucking /dedicated/ to defending a piece of shit for being a piece of shit.”
I’m not, which is my point. I outright said that not everything she did was perfectly fine and that I don’t personally think her actions during the argument were necessarily the result of transphobia, that’s your interpretation. I’ll believe that when I see Mary saying that she didn’t really care about the noise and just wanted an excuse to attack Carla for being a sinner.
So it’s only when people actually admit that prejudice caused a specific action that it counts, right?
Just because someone is shown to be prejudiced and is harassing someone they are prejudiced against, there’s no reason to suspect there might be a connection. Especially in fiction, where writers often do things specifically for the subtext. And where it’s often considered better to show things rather than explicitly spell out everyone’s motivations.
So in other words you’re not sure but that’s how you interpret it because you think it’s likely. My interpretation is that Mary decided to eventually bring out the big guns (emotional harm) out of spite but that doesn’t necessarily mean it was the cause for the argument before that.
So would you think the same way if it was a racial difference and one of the people in the spat brought out N***** as a “big gun” at the end. Still no reason to think the racism had any part in the conflict?
Or from another point of view, do you really think it’s at all Willis’s style to drop all this stuff into the scene and not have it related? It’s been claimed and proven wrong before. (Sal’s parents couldn’t have been prejudiced against her.) He’s a better writer than that. This is all intentional.
But in the end, you’re right. I can’t be sure. Short of Mary saying “I hassled Carla because trans people freak me out” or Word of God coming down, I can’t be sure.
But when I see bigots getting in fights with the people they’re prejudiced against, I’m perfectly happen to assume the bigotry is involved.
Apparently the city of Bloomington has a city ordinance largely due to the school preventing discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation and gender identity.
Again, I am positive that is THAT user’s info, as all his other hate-spew was deleted after it blew up the place earlier. His post was turned into putting his info on blast, as he is a waste of space and harassed other commenters, with a range of slurs.
Same said user also may or may not have posted the entirety of tomorrow’s comic, which has taught me to stop reading the comments, as this will be the second person to do so. This is why we cannot have nice things.
Wow. That was just cruel. Honestly, this changes the whole axis of the strip for me. I mean, Carla and Ruthless’ characters are based on (supposed) total contempt for others. Except now they’ve come across what _actual_ total contempt for others looks like, in action.
I am sorry to use such harsh language, but Mary IS a total b-o-n-g-o, and bongo is her name-o.
That’s a really good point. Carla and Ruth have outward personalities based on seeming like they’ve got no use for people, but Mary actively loathes people who are not exactly like her. And it really hammers home that what Carla and Ruth have are bitterness, scars, and acidic indifference.
What Mary has is genuine pitch-black loathing and utter disrespect for the humanit
I’d also say that it says something about Mary that she was not only perfectly okay going zero-to-ninety over a hallway noise issue, but was holding all that material in her back pocket and waiting for an occasion to use it.
Yes, all of the things Mary is using for blackmail are correct-ish (Becky being a lesbian does not make her a pervert). However, what actual proof of her claims does she have? If Ruth tells the RD that she attempted to intervene in Mary spewing transphobic hate speech at a trans resident and that Mary threatened to lie about her having relations with a resident and allowing a non-student to live on the floor, the RD will require Mary to prove her claims.
I mean, they’ll probably put together an investigation anyway, and it’s not like there’ll be a shortage of students willing to testify to Ruth’s shittiness as an RA, if not any of the specifics Mary brought up. She’s committed enough fireable offenses that I’m sure they’ll be able to get sufficient evidence for at least one of them if it comes to that.
I think you’re forgetting the context where Mary. (And also Becky, for that matter.)
Taking Ruthless down two weeks ago? Everyone would probably be right into it, and Mary getting slapped would be A-grade evidence.
But in the context of the hate-speech hate-thought shit that Mary’s agitating for… given the support Becky’s getting, and the connection that some are likely to make between Mary and that male-authority-figure-version-of-Mary-currently-rotting-under-guard-in-hospital, I’m not sure it’s a stretch to see a wall of solidarity behind Ruth, unanimously denying they’d seen any wrongdoing from her. (With the probable exception of Sarah, but I can’t help remembering her actions after she said she wasn’t going to a certain party.)
Which would likely change some of Ruth’s perceptions a bit. She won’t be under any illusions about anyone liking her, but her strategy of gaming a reign of terror would be fully rewritten, and she’d be fully aware that she’s only in the job through the sufferance of those around her.
Yeah, I can see her trying to rally everyone up with “c’mon, you all hate the queer lover, right?” and having Agatha, Mandy, Grace, Sal, Joyce, Dorothy, Sierra and so on just talking a giant step back.
Nah, Ruth ain’t having none of that.
Tomorrow’s panel (or a near future one) will consist of Ruth saying “What proof do you have of this?” ’cause what proof does Mary actually have of Ruth and Billy, it’s her word against an R.A.’s
And they can cover up anything in the rooms before any of Ruth’s higher ups come in to look for any evidence of these claims.
I mean sure Ruth’ll be wondering about the whole “Illegally moving in” stuff but she’ll be damned if she lets Mary even think that she has the upper-hand for a second longer.
Cause we’re getting an upswelling of “Carla is still awful” and “Mary totally has points” fuckers, I’m gonna post what I planned to post early in the thread yesterday:
“Ok, writing this out ahead of time, because it’s rather important to me.
Yes, this is a clear cut form of transphobia. In fact, it’s rather more clear-cut than most of us deal with. Most of the time the transphobia isn’t quite as direct as this or maintains some level of deniability so that it can gaslight us as much as it wounds. Yes, this form does still occur though and it hits like a punch every time. So much so that just reading it last night in preview left me a bit “oof”. And no, there’s no possibility that this is intended as anything other than intentional transphobia. She’s telling a transwoman she belongs in the boy’s side. That’s about as direct as you can get without bringing in slurs or direct violence.
But more importantly, I want to speak to every person who’s about to write a little screed about how Carla totally deserves this and brought this upon yourself.
And I want to say, please don’t. Please think for a second before writing it and please keep in mind the reality for trans individuals in society.
Cause, this… this is our daily lives. Dealing with fucking shit like this and worse. Dealing with violence and hatred and endless microaggressions where you view checking your blind spots for threats as just your new normal.
And for individuals like me, we’ve been told that we’ve deserved every ounce of it. For “defying God”. For “confusing children”. For “flaunting our way of life”. For “being so incautious as to be out”. Personally, I’ve heard every variation. I’ve had my own kin tell me that I earned every bad thing that happened to me simply for “clinging to this delusion”.
We trans people are frequently and incessantly told that we deserve shit like this because of stuff we’ve done or haven’t done, none of which actually deserve shit like this.
So please keep that in mind before you write your little defense of Mary or your condemnation of Carla. It really would mean the world to me.
Cute but not actually a great thing to say, given how often people defend legitimately racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic shit with “no, I hate everyone equally!” I’m not accusing you of that, just letting you know that that phrase has a lot of negative connotations for that reason.
No, no, you misunderstand me. In the context of my statements and the reality of experiences of trans individuals in society, how do you think your faux above-it-all persona sits? How do you think you sound in context.
Cause I know how you come across, but I want to know how you think you’re coming across. What you think these sorts of dismissive statements are saying to people like me.
I think that two strips ago this was about Mary fucking up Carla’s skates and being her usual nasty self.
And now it’s about trans issues. So, for the fourth time, I do no like these people.
I also do not care that Carla is trans. I have no actual real world interactions with trans people. My view and context to everything I have been saying is about how all these people were acting. Not their genders, not their sexual orientations, just their personalities and how shitty they are.
If that offends you then I am sorry. I am. I’m not bullshitting you, I’m not being sarcastic, I am sorry, but I have no experience with trans issues and only know what I’ve read on the internet, so I’m sorry that my first comment above hurt you in any way.
Thank you. I will say this. You have the privilege of not caring about the fact that Carla is trans and trying to separate that out from your interpretations of characters and events. You do not believe you have interacted in the real world with a trans individual (though you’d be wrong, we’re more present than you might think).
You are somewhat separated from trans experiences. This does not make you a bad person, but it does mean that you risk stepping into bad contexts like in this exchange and yes, some of what you said did genuinely hurt me and felt extremely dismissive to me largely because I do not have many of the same luxuries as you.
I do not get to ignore trans issues or not care about characters like Carla being trans or not identify painfully strong with experiences such as hers. For some context, I am a trans asexual woman. Carla is the sole media depiction of that.
Period.
In any media, Carla is the only one who depicts that identity and reflects it for me. By the time I die, she will probably remain the only one who depicts that identity for me.
And things like that transphobia in the previous comic is a regular occurrence in my life. It’s part of the new normal I’ve had to adapt to just to be myself.
I do not say these things to make you feel like crap in any way, but to explain the shape and method of how these clashes of context can create negative impact despite your best effort.
I appreciate you sharing this with me. I hope my words can explain part of where I am coming from and why sadly, last comic and this comic are really not separable from the overall conversation.
This is why I love Willis’s work so damn much. He’s set up a compellingly-real environment where it feels natural to encounter diversity, and where every character gets a fleshed-out and relatable backstory.
All this makes it properly (and deservedly) difficult for those of us with whatever form of privilege to not, at the very least, start to examine it.
That we’ve got Willis, and that we’ve got the likes of yourself and Leorale here as well, is just freaking awesome. The patience you have for dealing with both those who realise (belatedly) that their assumptions are faulty and those who don’t staggers me, every day.
(FWIW: male, cis, het, professional, penty Xian, so lots of privilege here, and I’m massively humbled by the generosity with which you share your experiences. though I should maybe add: my mums got married last week at long long last YAY! … I’m possibly an oddity in my church.)
“For some context, I am a trans asexual woman. Carla is the sole media depiction of that.”
Couldn’t say if she’s trans, but Girls With Slingshots has Erin as resident ace and Questionable Content has Claire who happens to be trans, if not ace. Pretty sure there are more comics I’ve red that have trans characters – tbh ace is by far more rare. So, don’t give up hope yet – there are trans ace characters out there… if very very few. :/
Erin: Ace but not trans
Claire: Trans but not ace
Rain from the webcomic Rain: Trans but not ace, but with an ace trans creator
Oscar from Sister Claire: Trans but not ace, but with an ace trans creator
Catherine from Sister Claire: Ace but not trans, but with an ace trans creator
I scour for representation but so far Carla and Ultra-car are literally the only examples of characters who are both ace and trans that currently exist in any medium.
butting: the likes of me? Hope I didn’t mislead you, I’ve got cis-privilege too. (I’m a bi Jewish white-looking social worker in training, who knows various queer folks.) I think about this sort of thing more than most cis people do, but surely not as much as any trans person does. And like you, I believe in being patiently kind to people whenever possible.
I’m not clearing my identity up bc being trans would be bad or something, but to express the possibility that cis-folks like you and me, we can be allies, we can listen to what needs there are and use our privelege for good.
Leorale: ah, yes, that was possibly sloppy phrasing—I’m grouping you with Willis and Cerberus because of the sheer damn eloquence we see here for talking about (and advocating for) who people are.
Knuckleheads aside, these comments pages are some of the best damn training grounds for ally training I’ve seen. I’d like to hope that it’s also a good all-comers place where people can feel safe about their identity, but the reality of privilege is that the likes of me simply doesn’t get to make that call.
Despite early appearances, we have a fundy transphobic character who’s in a conflict with someone we now know she knew is trans. Are you sure the previous strips were just about the skating and noise? Are you sure that her transphobia had nothing to do with Mary’s reaction?
Considering noise doesn’t label itself as coming from a specific person and that Mary came out pissed, it comes across to me as revisionist history to peg her initial response as anything but the obvious.
It definitely played a role. Treatment and violence of response is statistically significant in the way trans people are treated compared to cis. There’s a reason our murder rates are so high.
Hell, in a society where people feel justified to kill us simply because we gave them a boner, does anyone genuinely believe that someone would not be more prone to violence against a trans individual who annoyed them than a cis one?
You are a beautiful person but I’m not optimistic anything will stop the assholes who just have to get their two cents in…hopefully I’m very wrong, though.
Thank you for this intelligent, wonderful, personal comment. This is exactly it and it makes me so angry that you have to go through what you describe and that even here, in this comment section, some people don’t seem to understand the hurt they’re causing. There’s literally a commenter above who has just said basically what you describe and it makes me completely FURIOUS.
Everyone needs to read this comment :3 Hope it makes some people think!
Also important to note that if you’re still able to defend Mary, or say that Carla was even a little bit to blame for this, in the face of out-and-out hatespeech, take a minute to think about what your reaction must be when it’s a borderline case, something that a trans person who is constantly facing these sort of attacks would recognize but that might slide under a cis person’s radar. If you think “well yeah, Mary went too far, but she was in the right until then,” then I bet you’d continue to be totally on her side if she was a little less blatant about it, and just continued to chip away at Carla’s happiness, staying just this side of punishable attacks. As Cerberus says, transphobia isn’t usually this blatant, so keep that in mind when you’re tempted to roll your eyes at someone complaining about microaggressions.
From the comments I’ve seen no one here is trying to defend what Mary said (at least I hope not) but rather its up to the strip before Mary said what she said
After that came out the defending stopped (again I hope it did)
Well put. At the same time… I’m glad Willis is writing about this. It’s triggery for some people, but that’s because it happens – and a lot of people don’t understand that. This is perfectly in keeping with what we know of Mary – in fact, I’d just been thinking the night before about how UNrealistic it was that Mary hadn’t brought out the transphobia.
(Though I will say Carla’s been a douchecanoe. Seriously, skate outside or in a park, not up and down the hall. Not that this makes Mary’s comment right, but right up until she went “there”, I was on her side of this dispute. Yes, even after the glue.
Mary’s only possible points are, “Those roller skates are sure annoying.” Doesn’t justify destruction of property, or anything she’s said or done since. If Mary simply, I dunno, reported the roller skates, it would’ve been moot. But no, she’s been pretty evil the whole way since.
Considering what Mary just did. I doubt she’d trust Ruth to do anything about it.
The real question is – if she’s so danged hung up on being a religious bigot, why isn’t she at Anderson? Sectary beef? Taking courses they don’t offer?
Cerb, as much as I like you and enjoy your comments… you’re looking past the obvious issue here and bundling it together with a separate one that people are bringing up.
The thing you take offense with is insulting an entire group. Dragging someone’s kin or friends or group into an argument is NEVER to be condoned and is never an honorable or just act. It is vile to it’s core and should be condemned as such.
However, Carla did start a fight and deserves flack – but PERSONAL flack. In such situations slurs, posturing, intimidation, even violence isn’t all that unreasonable after a certain point – but all of these should be directed at the INDIVIDUAL, not a group. Those sorts of actions are quite defensible with ‘she started it’ argument.
You take offense with transphobia because it is ad hoc directed towards everyone in your group, you included. By design such slurs target everyone associated, which is what makes them indefensible.
That sed, Mary had every right to attack Carla on a personal basis. However… she chose to instead attack everyone in her group. THAT is what’s not defensible. Not Mary’s hostility directed personally towards Carla, which is quite warranted.
It is a person of low honor that lashes out against countless innocents when slighted by one.
Dude, we’ve got history of positive rapport, so please trust me when I say that yes, animosity towards a group very much affects personal treatment.
It’s the real meaning of “the personal is political”. That personal interactions are inherently affected and driven by societal oppressions. There are social forces that encourage negative behavior against those who are marginalized and limits their ability to be flawed human beings and there are open protections to dominant group members who hurt marginalized group members, often dismissing it as “minor”.
It is simply impossible that Mary’s animosity towards Carla as a trans woman had nothing to do with the level and amount of disproportionality she showed earlier or the lack of social regard for facing consequences for it.
Given that Word of God has confirmed that Carla’s skates were relatively quiet and on carpet, this point is hammered home all the more. A good proportion of Mary’s ire was about the fact that skates mean Carla and Carla means a reminder, in Mary’s eyes, that a (transphobic slur) dares live in the same space as her.
And it most definitely contributed to her actions in comic.
Furthermore, people still defending Mary in this context do so in the social context of trans people being told they deserve negative actions and implicitly requires neatly separating out transphobia in a way that simply does not happen in the real world. Transphobia and other -isms are not one-offs in neat little bubbles. They are inherent to an overall suite of regular mistreatment and stricter codes of conduct allowed to those targeted by them.
To separate out Mary’s transphobia in order to still dislike Carla’s earlier actions and side with Mary on them is to separate the whole point of Mary’s actions and why socially we’re willing to pretend someone quietly making uncommon noise in the hallways midday on a Friday is somehow creating such a big sin that we can quite literally erase transphobia against them and view actions designed to break their stuff and cause injury as totally socially acceptable.
“animosity towards a group very much affects personal treatment” We do, Cerb, we do. And I completely agree with you on this point. To be honest I didn’t much think of inherent likes and dislikes when analyzing this situation. It simply didn’t cross my mind to imput starting demeanor into the equation.
Still, such an approach is a bit like putting the cart before the horse, at least in this case. Mary literally didn’t know it was Carla at first but she still was angry. Furthermore, from observation, she seems to have been irked by Carla’s crescendo of antics, not her gender – she did use it as a disreputable weapon against her and she lost all credibility for such – but she did so after already being angered by mundane reasons. Could it also be that it’s largely due to transphobia? Possible. Probable? That’s the question here, ain’t it? Certainly it got mixed in there, somewhere along the way, but is that the primary reason? I’d say no from their interactions. No love lost between these two from the start, to be sure, but it didn’t get this far until they started to one-up each other.
*rubs beard* “Would Mary react this way to someone that wasn’t trans?” would be the quintessential question (up to the transphobic statement). Well, let’s look at how she acts with others. I’d say this is not out of character – regardless of who it would be I can see Mary reacting this way, minus the slurs at the end. So I have to presume, with evidence given, that this is mostly not due to Carla being trans.
Do note that Mary is under no obligation to like Carla from the start – simply disliking her for who and what she is is not the issue – weather it’s pretinent to how she acted, is. Sure, it’s definitely a part of it, but… let me use a personal example: Mary starts disliked by me for being a zelous Christian – that does not mean any altercation I’d have with her would be DUE to that.
For example now I can hate her for reasons somewhat removed from her religious views (arguable, but that’s another kettle of fish) – it doesn’t make me a ‘religiophobe’ to not stand her for this new reason. If I’d hate her no matter what purely for her religion, THEN I’d be a ‘religiophobe’ (I’m sorry, I know this word is stupid and made up, but I’m tired). Same applies to the current situation. She’s transphobic, sure, but it wasn’t pertinent to a alarming degree until it got to *that* point, where it promptly got very fucking pertinent.
Sorry, I went off on above long-ass explanation without reading the rest of your comment. I shall read and respond to it now. (Dear lord, Cerb, we’re eating half the bandwidth xD )
“social forces that encourage negative behavior” There are also social forces that protect sed people. Without society the only law would be rule of the fist – with no norms save for who can boss around the other. Society affords us all a certain degree of protection. Sadly some recieve less then others, but it’s a matter of flux as issues are brought up and weighed against tradition (a notion that has as much ugly sides as respectable ones) to see how society should evolve itself. It’s a struggle, as evolution always is and should be.
“open protections to dominant group members who hurt marginalized group members” Yes, we are animals after all. A dominant group will assert it’s values over the rest – the problem is not that in itself, it’s how harshly deviants (such as myself) are handled. I’d be fine with curiosity, problem is when it goes beyond. Thankfully, we have historical evidence that these things tend to homogenize somewhat in time and outrageous practices of yesteryear become banal as time marches on.
“impossible that Mary’s animosity towards Carla as a trans woman had nothing to do with the level and amount of disproportionality she showed earlier” That’s an opinion and I have another one: it very much is.
They’ve acted like two little brats trying to stupidly upstage one another for what… 3 comics now? Anyone… fine, most that have done this irl know that eventually someone either throws a punch or says something that you can’t unhear for a good long while. Mary’s example was extraordinary in her choice of subject matter, but the logical culmination given who she is – even if her transphobia wasn’t as pronounced as this explosion would lead us believe. You see, I’m not defending her, I’m simply arguing it’s not logical to hold the stance that this was always her motive. She’s a bongo (ha, got one up on you, word filter, I used the -ongo myself!) either way, but before this, one could have seen it as a reasonable escalation – if a particularly childish one.
“lack of social regard for facing consequences for it” Looks like cartoonish heat of the moment disregard for consequences or security in knowing she has blackmail. Tbh, I don’t see how what she pulled to counter Carla can be swept under the carpet by social blindness if Carla pressed her charges – she could have been hurt by Mary’s glue stunt. It would take an extraordinary amount of social blindness to disregard such a claim based on gender identity in any school – much less the one next door to the Kinsey Institute.
“Mary’s ire was about the fact that skates mean Carla” Should this be the only reasonable course of thought, it would certainly weigh a lot more into your reasoning, making Mary even more scummy then she already was in my eyes. I, however, was under the impression Mary only found out Carla was trans after she jumped over her a few pages prior – well after the whole arms race started.
“And it most definitely contributed to her actions in comic.” Knowing Mary to be Mary, wouldn’t we expect similar if it where anyone else? I mean, comments even used the term ‘Marying’ regarding such situations in the past. We knew she’s vile – to everyone.
“people still defending Mary in this context do so in the social context” If someone says they’re analyzing a situation out of a social context, then they are doing such. Plus, social contexts are based on where you are. US social context is different then German social context, that’s also different then Romanian social context, all of whom are different to webpage-specific social context. Removing the context is a useful tool to study something in a cold, clinical and unbiased manner in order to get conclusions that apply to most situations. Dissecting the finer points of Indiana collage life society isn’t something we’re equipped to do – since most of us haven’t been there and the finer points would be lost on us. We can however talk about sed actions in a more sterile context.
“that simply does not happen in the real world” Correct. Hence why we’re armchair analyzing a webcomic and not real-life events. Much of what we dissect here doesn’t have direct analogues or applicability to real life and should not be treated with the same level of vehemence. That’s not a bad thing. It’s just a reality of what we do here. *shrug*
“Transphobia and other -isms are not one-offs in neat little bubbles.” No, but if one can’t agree on a definition, good luck with agreeing with each other thesis’s. We break down events – life – into smaller bits so we can analyze them on that scale and then work up to understand a greater picture.
Are you saying you went from the possibility of her being mostly motivated by phobia, to analyzing what that means for the world at large and reacted accordingly? Because I’d say that’s far from the small scope of most of what I’m reading in the comments, especially mine. I’ve talked about singular events, maybe understanding a person at most; not a greater insight into society as a whole. Perhaps this is in part where the dissonance is coming from.
“They are inherent to […] to those targeted by them.” I understand what you’re stating, but I can’t say I have any opinion on the matter at this time; nor do I see what this has to do with my post. I suppose a ‘alright’ is all I can offer at present on the topic.
“To separate out Mary’s transphobia in order to still dislike Carla’s earlier actions and side with Mary on them is to separate the whole point of Mary’s actions” I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m saying both are idiots/assholes. It’s just that they where of a similar caliber until Mary showed her transphobia and garnered herself the prized position of top asshole in the room.
This whole debate is academic for me – we did reach a consensus for the present, but the past is what we’re arguing over – specifically the finer points of /when exactly/ Mary showed to be the bigger asshole. My money’s on ‘after certain words’ and yours is ‘at the start, because it was premeditated’ – statement I and others find questionable given what we know; mayhaps time will give more answers.
Unless you’re stating that Carla is innocent, because then we’d have a whole -other- (possibly LENGTHIER) can of worms to pick apart and I doubt any of us has the time by this point.
“making uncommon noise in the hallways midday on a Friday” Police have been called for less (faces have been punched for less as well). I would find that stupid tbh, but such are the rules (minus the punchy part but that doesn’t stop reality).
Personally, given Mary’s position, I’d have either ignored Carla, went to the RA or if an argument did erupt and Carla would have been obstinate, I’d have steadily grown more irate and probably forcibly dragged/pushed her out of the dorm door (or perhaps take off her skates by force? Depends on how angry she got me.). Or I’d have flirted with her – more so if I knew she was trans and seen what win-win could have ensued (either she’d leave or she’d like it and change her posturing to be more pleasant while staying for a nice talk – both acceptable outcomes by that point).
“literally erase transphobia against them and view actions designed to break their stuff and cause injury as totally socially acceptable” Because if it was anyone else, most would be fine with that. In other words, people here didn’t even account for her being trans – we simply saw two people having a stupid competition. The whole trans issue didn’t come in until it was blatant, because people by and large – at least online – don’t judge you based on your gender or orientation or color. It’s quite normal for people to dissect the issue without accounting for transphobia because we’re giving Mary the benefit of the doubt that she can’t possibly be this petty – or so help us Odin we will forever shit on her. Few people want to believe it’s something so bad, Cerb. And personally I find it reasonable to give her that doubt – not guilty until proven such and all that Americana. Idealism, perhaps, but perhaps you should find solace in seeing this trend – it can give one hope for the future.
10817 characters above ^. Roughly 4 pages. I am so sorry, everyone that reads this! I couldn’t make this shorter! >.<
Outside of “what would really happen”, do you think Willis, with a known interest in discrimination, religion, LGBTQ issues and such things, would intentionally set up this conflict between one of his trans characters and a known prejudiced character who reveals at the end both her prejudice and that she knew Carla’s secret, and still intend it to be read as the conflict being completely divorced from any prejudice? Cause, narrative wise, that makes no sense at all.
He’s also setting up a nice parallel between this minor conflict between Carla and Mary and the larger, more significant one between Ruth and Mary. Both involve a sympathetic character who’s at least partly in the wrong and Mary who is attacking them for completely the wrong reasons.
Ruth’s in the wrong on a much larger scale than Carla was, but that parallels the conflict being larger.
“do you think Willis […] would intentionally set up this” It can swing both ways, specifically because he is who he is – depends on what the author wants out of it. That sed, it was strongly implied that Mary found out when Carla jumped over her – meaning after all of this started.
But you are right, meta-wise the evidence is starting to point towards premeditated as bad as that would be.
There are parallels, to be sure. I’m just not sure how that factors into the main issue that’s being discussed. But yes, it is a interesting choice.
I really don’t see it implied that Mary found out then. Her reaction then could easily just be frustration at not being successful at stopping Carla. The look seems far more like anger than shock or surprise.
BTW: It’s “said”, not “sed”! “sed” is a Unix text parser. Sorry, but it nags at me everytime and I finally snapped.
I love this comment. I’m not trans myself and have had no interactions RL with trans people (qualifier: to my knowledge) outside of my step-grandmother and potentially my own grandfather (couldda just wanted to wear women’s clothing, we don’t know..) and this helps me understand a bit better the violence and hate trans-people get. Though, can I get an answer to a question, how do you know if you’re trans? Just an honest genuine curiosity.
I believe (don’t quote me on this) that you just… know. You feel like a girl, or a guy, or anything in between or outside. You might not realize it when you’re young, but you almost definitely will at some point.
The term is gender dysphoria.
As I understand it, you literally feel like your body is wrong. It usually starts fairly young and gets worse with puberty. People often aren’t diagnosed/realize the problem is that they’re transgender early on, probably largely because until quite recently many young people haven’t even heard of the concept, but the problem generally goes back to a young age. Just without any idea how to deal with it or even what it is.
Hormone therapy is the main treatment. I’ve heard from some trans people that while the physical changes from that take awhile, relief of the dysphoria can be quick – you feel much more like yourself once you’ve got the right hormones flowing through you.
It’s been a while since I commented on here but I felt I should add my support. I know it’s pretty much meaningless, but I feel obliged to show there’s many people out there who support trans individuals, even though unfortunately we’re often drowned out by bigots.
I’ve had issues myself, however I cannot imagine the impact of people actually spewing out the kind of bigotry you describe, and that unfortunately I know still happens to this day.
Just know that there are many people who value you (and other trans people) as people, to me, and I know many others, there is no difference between someone who got assigned the right gender at birth and someone who did not.
In the end it’s the kind of person you decide to be, how you treat others that decide if you’re a good person. And on that front, there’s little doubt that a trans individual has a massive head start on someone who’s transphobic, one that’s pretty impossible to overcome.
TL:DR There’s no excuse treating trans individuals any different from those who happened to be lucky enough to be assigned the correct gender at birth. And there’s many of us who support you, though unfortunately we’re often drowned out by the screams of the bigoted.
PS. I’m sorry if I phrased some things awkwardly, while I support trans rights in my heart I’ve not been in contact with it enough in real life to be comfortable in the way I show that support.
This strip and the one prior has seriously enraged me when it comes to Mary. I don’t care what or how, but I seriously pray she receives some horrid karmic retribution on this. There’s being mean, there’s being a jerk, and then there’s being honest-to-God evil. And that face? That smug ‘I have power over you and want to hurt you with it’ abusive face? THAT is evil. The sooner Mary is written out of the comic, the sooner it can be enjoyable again, because from this strip onward anytime I see her any possible enjoyment is going to be sucked out of the room.
So, putting aside how awful the hate-speech, transphobia, etc is for just a moment here (primarily because all that has been pretty thoroughly discussed the last few days in comments here):
I could be wrong, but I think Mary just played every single card she had against Ruth. If that doesn’t work, what does she have left? It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I’m very much hoping we get to see Mary scared that she doesn’t have any more tricks up her sleeve in the next few days.
To be clear, I’m 100% against Mary on this (and pretty much everything else) and I hope that even after all her “leverage”, Ruth still brings down the hammer of Thor on her ass.
love this point. but seriously, people that are always trying to find a lower bar always find one. I bet willis won’t make this one too much lower bc ow ow ow, but the marys out there in the real world* always find another way to hurt. : (
In my (admittedly limited) experience, the improv, on the spot stuff tends to not be as effective as insults and information someone has spent weeks in advance refining for maximum devastation. Plus, maybe I’m just not a horrible enough person, but I genuinely can’t think of any other fuel Mary can throw onto the fire that’s more damaging than what she’s already said without just making stuff up, repeating herself, or dragging the rest of the floor into the fight. Maybe bringing up Ruth’s drinking, but I think hope most people wouldn’t think that’s worse than everything else she’s done so far. In the words of a certain deputy director of the parks department, “Hold on to your straws, everybody, ’cause mama’s going grasping.”
Also, she’s been holding onto all of that for, what, weeks now? And she burns it all up just because of someone skating in the hall? Either she’s a horribl(y ineffective) villain on top of being a horrible person, or she wasn’t expecting Ruth to show up, panicked, and used everything she had. But maybe that’s just my wishful thinking again. Either way, Mary’s gonna learn the real meaning of “the wrath of God” really soon.
I bet Billie not telling Ruth about Becky (if that’s what her surprise is supposed to imply, she already knew Mary knew about Billie) is going to cause a big issue.
I wonder if this is going to be a call for Ruth to, uh, go back to the book. The floor clearly needs an effective RA, and Ruth has shown at least some willingness to be that RA, but not how things are right now.
I don’t really have much to say about Mary. I’m hoping that Carla tells her off, but what can you really say to bigoted shit like that…
Mr. Willis, you, like George R.R. Martin, have this ability to give me what I want and make me not want it. As someone who tries to write, I applaud your ability.
Ruth, long before you found yourself in a relationship with Billie and long before Becky moved in. Your method of establishing and maintaining authority involved physical assault, theft of property, and destruction of property. None of that is acceptable in an RA and, had someone pressed charges winding you up in jail, I would not have been displeased.
This is not to say that I don’t like Ruth. I actually do. But, I think bullying like that does need consequences, and not all on the basis of whether or not I like the perpetrator.
But, why, why, why, why, why did it have to be Mary who finally did it? Of all the various people to do it, why Mary?
I think Ruth isn’t responsible for her behavior due to something which she needs to be on medication for. Mary, however, is behaving like a psychopath.
I’m trying to remember what Mary might have that would even count as testimony, let alone evidence.
There was that one time that Billie left Ruth’s room, and it looked like an obviously staged angry ejection. Anything else?
I can really see both Ruth and Billie lying about it when questioned.
Ruth: “How dare you accuse me of sleeping with a student!”
Billie: “How dare you accuse me of sleeping with the RA!”
Alternatively/Additionally, Billie and Ruth work out a cover story: “I visit Ruth a lot because she’s tutoring me in [subject].” Or maybe: “Yeah, I visit and we talk a bit . . . see, I found out about her parents, and mine are absent and neglectful. . . Well, we pretend to be at odds because Ruth has a reputation for badassery to uphold.”
And everyone has been hiding Becky. . .
Numerous students: “Who? The short-haired redhead? Oh, she just visits Joyce a lot — you know, after her dad tried to kidnap her?”
Sal: “Billie still sleeps here. Becky? Yeah, she sometimes visits.”
Mary might’ve seen Billie taking all her clothes to Ruth’s room. Even that seems like a pretty shaky claim though.
Wonder what would happen if they just went the Gal Pals angle? “Oh yeah. Billie’s totally been rooming with me. We get along really well and I know it’s against the rules but we really enjoy this informal roommate situation we’ve got going on. So weird that Mary just assumed we were sexing eachother up.”
Really Billy could just say “I was suffering from suicidal ideation so Ruth was keeping an eye on me to make sure I don’t, y’know, kill myself in one of your dorm rooms.”
It’s true, there are lots of stories they could tell. They have to figure out who is likely to be asked about Becky and/or Billie, and which of those people will be on their side and/or willing to lie about it. They need to agree on a good story, one that’s as simple as possible, with few details to mess up. Then they need to pass the story along by word of mouth, without changing it much in the process. Finally, everyone has to absolutely stick with it. Huh. Conspiracies are hard.
Really if it’s a personal issue it doesn’t even have to be spread it would be entirely justified that Billie was hiding her debilitating depression from her peers and that’s why she was sneaking around about it. It’s not like her friends haven’t noticed she’s struggling.
Dear Carla: no one would have cared about you skating in the halls in my dorm. You’d have been welcome.
Man, I’ve endured drunken parties in the dorms worse than someone rollerskating. Mary’s got to learn how to get along with other people. You live in a dorm, you put up with some noise. Don’t want the noise? Shell out for an apartment.
I’m waiting for Mary to pregnancy-barf on Ruth’s shoes and promptly faint. Some of the acid in the vomit will dissolve the glue in Carla’s skates. Ruth will be forced to take Mary to the hospital. Mary, once she regains consciousness, begs Ruth not to tell about the pregnancy, the previous abortions, or the naked teacher that bolted from Mary’s darkened room when he heard the thud.
My own ridiculous theory is that Ruth will face official trouble, but due to some manner of bureaucratic error, Becky becomes the new RA. I mean, pretty much everyone on the floor already likes her, and she’s got conflict resolution skills as evidenced by the brinksmanship diplomacy with Toedad. Lots of witnesses for that, official statements and such.
I think the most unsettling thing, to me, is when rereading- Mary is using her blackmail material not even yet to control Ruth or get something, but just to defend her use of hate speech (and hate action) so Ruth can’t stop her. Like, her goal here (other than to feel superior to the others) is to be able to bully (or a more severe word) people without getting in trouble.
Mary is using blackmail just to get to spread hate more. Holy shit Mary.
Sorry for repetition, proofreading on my phone sucks. With this I’m out, because instead of a fun discussion of both realistic and not outcomes and punishments (Malcolm in the Middle reference please) this just kind of sucks.
Wait, hate speech? I’m not sure I follow. Are you refering to where she says “the boy’s wing where you belong?”
Is it hate speech now to say that someone belongs in the boy’s wing?
Further, the skating chick is being pretty inconsiderate and awful. Granted, Mary is letting her anger get the better of her and she is being a jerk with the leverage she has, but again… hate speech? I don’t follow.
Yeah, it qualifies as hate speech to me. Mary brought up Carla’s gender choices to specifically imply that she is an outsider to the group. It had nothing to do with Carla annoying her, did it? When you wanna hurt someone you go for something personal like this, and that’s pretty hateful.
Which yes, does very much make this hate speech, unless you’re one of the many assholes who don’t believe transphobia should count as hate speech. Which if you are, just do me a favor and fuck off because you’re going to get banned anyways.
Also?
“Further, the skating chick is being pretty inconsiderate and awful. ”
Fuck you.
“Mary is letting her anger get the better of her”
Oh, how very dismissively phrased. Thanks.
(Tirade of homophobic and transphobic intentional attacks) Gosh, she’s just getting carried away with her anger, her disproportionate anger at the existence of people of marginalized identities.
Now if there were only a word for that sort of thing.
Cerb, you’re getting carried away here. Chill. No one insulted no one in the comments (maybe except you, but I’m sure you didn’t mean to be rude to innocents or the naive). Focus your hate on Mary if you must but for goodness sakes, don’t blow up on others for not caring about the things you care about.
As for Carla… she thrives on “being pretty inconsiderate and awful” – simply happens that this time her victim deserves it fully. However, her gender doesn’t make her any less of an asshole or any less culpable. Regardless of the start, by this point they may as well have a knife-fight and get it over with, but I for one am not rooting for either of them.
Hey, maybe you could not take it upon yourself to tell people who’ve dealt with abuse, harassment, and discrimination that are outside the realm of your own experiences how they should react to the callous dismissiveness exhibited above. Because it’s not, you know, at all your place to do so.
And even if not, comment sections do still have a social order of some form – and directly insulting others is a bad idea for everyone involved. As for why I’m doing it – it’s because I care enough about Cerb to not want her to get in trouble because she’s let her temper run away with her. After all, unprovoked ad hominem’s are about as serious an offense as you can get on a comment board.
I’m also trying to point towards my respect for her and defusing a potentially problematic affair – in other words I’m vouching that she’s not like this usually and trust that our Benevolent Overlord doesn’t look angrily upon her for such, while not ignoring sed issue.
You know, about how you’d expect a friend to act if you do a social faux-pas in plain view of a crowd. Perhaps I’m doing one myself and perhaps it’s not my finest speech, but I think I made my intentions clear.
You’re tone policing, and it’s incredibly gross. Saying her reaction was unprovoked is gross. Your false equivalence is gross. Your behavior is gross. There’s very little about your comments that isn’t gross, and I would have no use for a friend who plays concern troll when someone is very reasonably upset.
So, pot – kettle, then?
I could end it here but… ah, wth, let’s make use of that ‘right to reply’, shall we!
Yes, unprovoked – the comment in question was naive in tone, that does not give one any rights to use personal insults.
As for this… well, you’re certainly goading me, yet I’m being civil and avoiding insulting you unless you start to – and no, ‘gross’ isn’t an insult, it’s your opinion and I quite honestly couldn’t care less what it was.
“false equivalence” I see no false equivalence nor have you pointed to such. Simply stating ‘that stupid thing’ isn’t actually useful information for anyone that isn’t already you.
“Your behavior is gross” Broad statement that can mean anything anyone. In other words this insult lacks substance. Kindly try insulting me with some oomph.
Be witty, be expressive, just don’t be so dull when insulting me, please.
“There’s very little […] that isn’t gross” Why use this drab word ad nauseam? It’s no wonder my comments skeeve you out – I’d imagine all these different words scare you. No worries, it will get better in time. Hopefully.
“I would have no use for a friend” Good thing we’re not even acquaintances then. Friendship is earned, not given and at times two people that are amiable can have very strong differences of opinion. And that can be fine. But you wouldn’t know much about that, would you?
“plays concern troll” Troll? I am not trolling in the slightest. I was utterly sincere in everything I sed. I play devil’s advocate at times, but that’s rather rare and isn’t nearly the same thing.
Weather you believe me is irrelevant though it would be nice to not be misrepresented.
“when someone is very reasonably upset.” Weather upset or not, a society has rules and consequences for actions and words sed. ‘I was angry’ isn’t a good defense for one’s failings. Neither for me nor anyone else. It’s good to remind ourselves of that every now and then.
There’s also standards – higher for oneself and those one respects then for random passers by.
Now then, if you’ll excuse me, I have some thoroughly /gross/ business to take care of! *flies off*
The thing is that sadly, people can be dismissive, cause hurt, or reinforce narratives of institutional oppression without meaning to (though unfortunately there has been a flood of individuals intending to be malicious, but thankfully Willis has deleted all of them).
If I was to make a statement that was inadvertently dismissive of racism or minimized its impact in the world completely by accident. Someone who was of color would very much justified in unloading on me because I would have caused harm, albeit by accident.
I do not view people who have done so inherently as bad people, though I’ll admit being wary given the flood of intentional assholes we had earlier, but there dismissals have real-world consequences (see Elana feeling suicidal earlier in the thread).
I did reply with a fairly long-winded (as usual) comment about how sed person of color wouldn’t have the right to interpret your words as he saw fit and claim damages based on his/her interpretation. Because that’s how you can justify to be upset over literally anything – surely making such unreasonable.
Plus the old ‘intent vs. effect’ core debate – we already know how that would go.
Regardless, I am sorry you had a rough day. I apologize if I’ve added to it by folly. At least you can rest assured in the knowledge it was with the best of intentions… though considering our intent vs. effect debate I’m not sure how much that means to you. *sad smile*
Take care, Cerb.
… Ugh…you know, rereading this, I borked the last sentence of the second paragraph, and as a result the last sentence of the whole post. The ‘arrogant’ points should have the same negative modifiers as the ‘self-destructive’ points. I don’t know where my head was at when I wrote that.
True, but that (above) is her major application for now according to this page and goes to show that jer other applications also will be horrifying- which leads back to my main point, that this isn’t just blackmailing someone into keeping a secret or doing a chore
Ugh, sorry it’s the middle of the night and I forget things. Also I meant that she means to use this sp she can do yesterdays continuously following, not just get away with it now
Heh, I can relate. I came home from a graveyard shift of work, but still had to check the current strip.
I too should have not oversimplified my statement. But it does not negate that it is true.
Because no Blackmailer that is successful in their use of their leverage against their victim, ever stops at just one use of their blackmail upon them.
No. If you’re going to gender ‘fraternizing’, the feminine would be ‘sororizing’. Mater is mother, and thus paired with Pater, which is father. Frater is brother*, thus its feminine equivalent is soror – sister.
But ‘fraternization’ is non-gendered**, and ‘sororization’ is not a word.
Zorronizing is when you sleep with a masked vigilante and you swipe your sword against the curtains afterwards, like swoosh-swoosh-swoosh, to make a Z. It is a very specific usage, which is the only reason that you’ve never seen it before.
My interpretation was that Dina considered Sarah the most evil among readily available allies, and when questioned, gave her reasoning: Smart + Mean => more evil than Becky, Dina, or Joyce.
Dina considers herself smart, but with insufficient practice at being mean (e.g.,”definitely at the mall, and these are not lies”). Joyce, on the other hand, has only been mean in dumb ways, never with rational premeditation. They needed to meticulously ruin Toedad’s life, for the greater good, and Sarah was the only one who’d done something like that before. A smart person faced with a serious problem outside their field of expertise may improvise under time pressure, but will then find and consult an appropriate expert at the next reasonable opportunity.
So, uh…what proof does Mary have? Because here’s the thing: the floor might be scared of Ruth, but I can bet all of them at least lowkey hate Mary in a much more hateful way. Ruth is…Ruth, but Mary is a spiteful, hateful bongo, and I bet they’ve all gotten a bad taste in their mouth from her presence.
And so when it comes down to it, it’s an RA’s word against a freshman who has made a helluva lot of enemies. And it would be very easy to hide Becky’s habitation. Easier to prove Mary is a transphobic, homophobic asshole creating a hostile environment to fellow students.
Here’s the thing, if Mary does go and tells the higher ups, they’ll have to send someone to investigate just because that’s protocol. Sending someone would mean that Billie would have to move all her clothes back to her room out of Ruth’s. There’s also all of Becky’s clothes that are currently in Billie’s room.
Oh and the shit ton of alcohol both Billie and Ruth probably have lying around.
The thing is, that’s a lot of shit they have to try and fix up in what is probably an hour if the higher ups are competent.
How would they even know those are Billie’s clothes? And Becky doesn’t have a whole lot to start with. It’s not that hard, honestly. Stuff everything contraband, including Becky’s clothes, into a few bags, get Becky off campus, let Billie throw most of her shit back into her room and then sit there in her underwear and tee shirt studying or watching Netflix or whatever, meanwhile everyone who cares pools their funds and gets Becky into a local hotel for the time being. (Which, considering the lot of them apparently have expendable funds for pajama jeans, fandom stuff, DVD’s, etc, would not be hard) Ditch the liquor in the nearest recycling bin or whatever.
Mary doesn’t actually have any proof. She has her accusations, and she has her bad language towards her fellow dorm citizens that is honestly not going to help her case.
Becky’s still in that room hiding with…what’s her name. We don’t know how Ruth will react when she finds out that Billie was hiding Becky from her. Becky recently went back to her old college and got her old shit I think, and Dina and Sarah are currently having a tough talk about whether Becky really loves Dina or not.
You know this college, whenever something can go right something else comes along and Toedads the whole situation up.
Re: Lapin’s comment
Ruth and Billie have very different body types. You could easily explain different sized over shirts and stuff, but underwear of a different size would point towards cohabitation.
Also, it’s not clear that they’d have any sort of heads up. If the point is that Ruth is being deliquent, they’ll probably show up randomly to check in. Mary could claim they’re coming to trick people into going into “hide Becky” mode, with her staying off campus or whatever only to actually tell the authorities when it’s likely for her to return. They could also just arrange a bunch of solo interviews with the residents, stress the punishments related to being delinquent and imply that some of them have already revealed Becky’s presence. I know Sal hates authority, but I can’t imagine her keeping mum and losing her home and chance at a degree if she thought someone else had already rolled over. And even if they do manage to successfully hide Becky, the amount of stress and pressure it would put on the residents would be huge. Agatha already looked disconcerted just trying to hide her from Ruth. It would become increasingly hard to keep her a secret while dealing with the increasing pressures of school; someone would crack.
I agree that everyone else on the floor would try their best to protect Becky, and Mary doesn’t seem to have much proof, but I think the accusation would make their lives a lot harder.
I don’t think school administrators can comment on a student/employees underwear, even during an investigation. And even if they did, just say “My weight fluctuates a lot.” It’s not like they could make you prove that.
But I agree an investigation would be really likely to turn up SOMETHING incriminating, and Ruth has racked up at least three different types of fireable offense (drinking, sleeping with a student, physically assaulting students). So that seems like a real bad option for her.
Also, everyone who thinks it’s a great time to still be whining about Carla skating on carpet (not that loud to begin with), maybe perhaps possibly think about… not doing that.
Maybe think about whether that’s such a great point to bring up in the context of this level of transphobia and homophobia and maybe consider whether or not your ability to continue to project your hatred of whatever loud neighbor bothered you X years ago onto Carla really needs to get shared under this context.
And maybe just maybe consider the way that might sit for individuals for whom last comic is a regularly occurring permanent life fixture.
Cause I’ll let you all in on a little secret. It don’t feel great.
Not gonna lie. I’m feeling quite a bit fucked up and shaky. Which may be quite apparent for those who are used to more of my cerebral style postings than the incoherent begging I’ve probably been doing most of this evening.
I’ve gotten so used to this kind of crap, but I dunno. I’m still a meatsack at the end of the day. And shit can still get to me.
I’m sorry its getting to you. You don’t deserve to be looked down upon for your identity choices. I want to be helpful, but I don’t have much more than that…
Just a heads up, maybe don’t use the word ‘choice’ to describe gender identity or sexual orientation. Those are not a choice. Just pointing this out in case you’re unaware, I’m not coming for you.
I cannot express enough how much I appreciate you being here. I can barely manage to respond to any of these jackbutts without giving in to frustration and swearing at Ryman. You’re my hero, Cerberus.
I’m sorry to hear that, and I hope by now you feel a bit better.
I agree with you that at this point it’s irrelevant what lead to the current situation, there’s never an excuse for the kind of dehumanization Mary is exhibiting. It was a point that could be made at the time, but right now all that matters is that Mary is trying to take away dignity from someone for simply being who they are, and that is never acceptable, under no circumstance.
And again, I hope you feel better, and please know there’s many here who support you, far more than those that don’t, unfortunately people are much more inclined to respond if they have something horrible to say than to simply show support.
you’re not alone. yesterday’s post was a punch to the gut, even with Ruth sticking up for Carla. and i have made the mistake to actually read comments now, and it’s pretty upsetting, even with some people sticking up for Carla and against transphobia. at the beginning of this arch, i didn’t expect that Mary knew Carla was transgender. i just thought Mary was a jerk. but nope. i was totally wrong. she was being deliberately mean from the get-go because of how transphobic she was, she felt entitled to be as mean as possible. and half of the comments section also feels entitled to be transphobic, so it’s pretty disheartening.
I’m a pseudo-employed latino from a shitty third world country so I wasn’t really that bothered by an american college kid’s mildly annoyed reaction to their, as a skater entusiast poster said, “possibly more expensive than a car” toy being damaged during a fight they willingly took part in, so I commented on that. That wasn’t intended to mean it’s the most important issue of the story or that people should give more importance to that and ignore what Mary does later. Sorry if you took it that way.
Well, all of my sympathy for Mary getting harassed by Carla vanished the previous cartoon. It was mostly gone when her skates were actively damaged as well. I knew Mary was a bigot but I was hoping she was possessed of a glimmer of basic human decency which might help her overcome it but this is outright evil. For shame, Mary, for shame.
Fuck Mary, but, she’s not wrong about Ruth’s behavior. I feel for Ruth, and Billee, and everyone who’s technically breaking the rules with good intentions, but what Ruth needs is serious therapy and probably NOT to be an RA to have time to get herself together, not to just get to do whatever she wants and be a pretty shit RA (and at times general person) just because she’s a compelling character. If she wants to punish Mary for being an asshole, which would be totally totally justified, Ruth would have to be held culpable for her actions, which include a long list of substance abuse, violent behavior towards students, and throwing out her fair share of venom towards people. And, as much as I want Ruth and Billee too be happy, together even, if circumstances improved, what’s going on there has a lot of problems for personal and professional reasons. And Ruth knows it. Should Mary get slapped by karma/a person/regulations against hate speech towards other students for being such a throbbing pustule of a human canker sore? Oh, HELL yes, so much yes, oh please. But Ruth’s high ground could crumble really really fast after everything she’s done, and have serious backlash for her and others.
Ruth is mentally troubled and while her behavior is deplorable, it should be treated by a doctor and with sympathy. Carla is a jerk. Mary, however, is a criminal and her behavior is devoid of basic human decency let alone Christian.
That’s why I said Ruth needs time to get herself in a good headspace, probably with therapy, whereas Mary just needs a kick to the ass. But, sympathy doesn’t mean Ruth has carte blanche do whatever she wants. Especially since she clearly knows that at least some of what she is doing, including her relationship with Billie, has some questionable elements. Ruth can, and in some ways should, be held accountable for her bad RA behavior, but hopefully without being demonized and left to spiral into a worse state.
Yeah, it’s the thing. I don’t like Carla’s behavior and it’s jerkish. I think Ruth behaves in an awful abusive manner because of her untreated condition. However, I don’t think either of them deserves anything approach to this. Kind of like 14 year old Sal getting stabbed by Amber. Any sympathy I had for Mary went out when she used hate-speech.
First of let me say Mary’s disgusting transphobia, made worse by the fact it was a calculated remark, is completely beyond the pale. Nothing Carla and Ruth have or haven’t done justifies it. Any reply implying I am justifying or excusing the tranphobia will result me tell you to fuck off.
(A lot of the above comments make me think this is an important clarification to get out there early)
Right
Conflict: Mary and Carla are arguing. Each one escalates the situation further and further. Ruth is the one who is supposed to deal with this, but is compromised by both the fact she has been neglecting her RA duties and actively breaking the rules, plus she previous assaulted Mary.
Tensions, conflict, ambiguity. Arguments on both sides. Something that is the norm for real life.
And then… Mary makes a vile transphobic remark and all the tension drains from the scene. Because we no longer care about her side of anything and most people would literally cheer if she got hit by a bus.
I don’t care about this anymore in the same way I no longer cared about the conflict with Toe-Dad once he drew the gun. And I was right seeing as how easy and silly the resolution was.
I still care about the inner-conflicts. Carla is obviously super emotionally vulnerable in a way we haven’t seen before. And Ruth… with her emotional issues I expect this to totally break Ruth and she leaves next scene without saying a word.
That’s interesting… but now I half suspect they will be given just as neat solutions, that everything will be okay and that Mary will say something vile in front of authority figure, and get owned.
And then her pants fall down in front of everyone.
Personally, I believe that there’s a lot of tension left in the scene. Either way this ends up, there’s going to be some nasty swinging pendulums hanging over people. Carla has gotten a violent reminder of how unsafe her location still remains. Ruth no matter how this resolves is going to be on a razor’s edge with regards to what little she has built. And Becky’s stability has once again been directly threatened. And even if the physical resolution is easy, the emotional fallout will be intense (see how fucked up Joyce is).
Also, minor point, but I will note that the whole gun thing actually was so reminiscent of some people’s experiences that they had to stop reading the comic for awhile because it was so triggering and true to their life experiences, so maybe keep that in mind when using that as an example of tension decreasing?
I apologize, I misphrased that and never meant to imply transphobia isn’t a constant experience in the lives of a majority of trans-people. It’s hard to edit long posts on here and I was in a rush to get to work.
My point (In that specific passage) was simply arguments are normal, this dispute had two sides, then Mary dropped atomic weapons and it became utterly one sided. The transphobia escalated it to a whole other level where she is solely in the wrong.
You had to put a whole paragraph of hemming and hawing before you could get to your point, and a whole paragraph of “correction” (really, let’s be honest, “backing down due to being called out”) before you could make your point. If you have to do all that, your argument probably doesn’t need to be made. And just because you use a thesaurus as a dictionary doesn’t mean the rest of us think words can only mean one thing.
You do realize that the entire point of the conflict over skating was to lead up to the larger conflict from the use of Mary’s blackmail material on Ruth, right? Which has been set up from way back.
Mary’s personality, her need to control and her need to get the better of everyone drove the little skating spat. Just as they’re driving the larger conflict with Ruth.
And, now that it’s been revealed that Mary knows Carla is trans, it’s very hard to not see that playing into her reaction to Carla’s antics – even if it wasn’t obvious at the start.
There’s also still ambiguity in the larger conflict, because Ruth really is a problem as RA. But these are the wrong reasons for kicking her out.
Exactly. The “skating in the hall” bit was simply yet another instance of Willis deliberately setting up what we think is going to be a light, funny, drama-free little interlude, only to shout “Psych!” at us and make it dramatic after all. It’s not a matter of tilting the scales in favour of one character or against another. It’s a matter of catching us off-guard, but not, as thejeff points out, completely out of nowhere. Willis always plants the seeds of drama to come well in advance, then has them sprout at the most unexpected moments.
@thejeff: Maybe this is just me predicting what is going to happen and then it not happening and me just being unhappy because it doesn’t jibe with my expectations. That is a known cognitive bias.
But for me this started with Ruth smacking Mary across the face. Now Mary was insulting her but still, that is assault. It disturbed me that most readers didn’t care and honestly I was worried even Willis didn’t care. I wanted to see where it was going and it was quickly “obvious” Mary planned revenge via outing her and Billie, a violation of the rules for RAs. For me ostensibly good characters getting a comeuppance for their fuckery is always cool.
If I had to express it my worry is this is now “Mary uses her power to exploit and abuse others” and “Ruth suffers the consequences of her actions” is gone. It’ll be like that assault didn’t matter and never happened.
I really disliked the last arc so my faith is a little shaken. I don’t like to bongo about DOA in the comments. I like 95% of the strips and it’s shitty to regularly bongo when Willis reads the comments. But this plotline is one I have had my eye on so I’ve found this non-resolution a little jarring.
Well, it’s not resolved yet and it’s not all clear that Ruth will come out of it in the clear or unscathed.
Unlike the last story arc, where there never was any ambiguity about who was the good “guy”, things are less clear here. Mary is obviously a baddie. Her motives are all wrong here. She’s trying to get revenge and blackmail and is far more focused on the perversion and depravity than on the actual problems with Ruth as RA.
That said, those problems exist and there’s definitely going to be fallout if she reveals them, whatever her motives. Ruth isn’t the wronged innocent here. Unlike Becky.
One thing I take comfort out of this is Mary is a psychopath it seems in she doesn’t seem to UNDERSTAND empathy. Either giving it or that other people would feel it. Does she really think the university would kick out Becky after what is probably a NATIONAL scandal?
“If evil wasn’t nice, nobody would bother with it.” … Mary. I don’t think she is a psychopath, she has just locked herself into a fight against what she has been told is evil.
Ruth had better go Ren Hoek on Mary with this: “You!” Then the “filthy swine” part, which kinda ticks em off. Mary ain’t gonna threaten Ruth… Well, Mary challenged Ruth’s authority, same thing Billie did when her cheerleader uniform was vandalized.
I think it’d be hilarious if the Residence Manager is someone who doesn’t care about any of this and ignored all of Ruth’s previous behavior so Mary’s blackmail is worthless.
If I may make a comics comparison. The Mad Hatter and Two-Face are both awful people. Two-Face being actually mentally ill and one of the few people who belongs in a asylum (just not Arkham).
It’s unfortunate that Carla didn’t just fucking shit talk her or something. Because Mary has basically nothing on her. What’s she going to do? Tell people Carla was skating down the halls with no evidence? If anything, if Mary went to tell on her, Carla could say “Mary gunked up my skates with bullshit. Here’s the proof on my feet” And what can Mary do then? Not only that but Carla could basically use the fact that Mary was acting transphobic towards her and pepper that in to any authority figure. I’m not 100% sure how that’d go, but seeing as how she’s allowed a room on the girl’s wing I’m led to believe the people are at least a little liberal. If anything, Ruth’s involvement made this situation more complex than it needed to be.
Yeah pretty much this, she’s not being sensitive (though I don’t think any offence was meant) she’s being told that her very identity is an affront. Anyone would struggle to deal with that. Especially if you know a non-negligible section of the population actually feels that way.
are you talking about Mary or about Mr. Random re: offence meant? because, like, Mary definitely did mean for offence to get taken. offence was the entire point of her statements. Mr Random I don’t know as well.
I mean that Carla actually seems to be sensitive about her identity, even when people aren’t actively trying to bully her about it.
Keeping that in mind, it hurts Carla that much more when Mary is doing this.
Also, while it’s an a HUUUUUUUUGE jackass move, it’s not an act of violence. It’s bullying. Severe and pointed bullying meant to target someone’s insecurities. But still bullying. Not violence.
I say this because calling it an act of violence can justify using violence against someone like Mary. And that should never be the case, because then they become more closed off. More sure of themselves.
misgendering is an act of verbal violence that is deeply harmful to the person being misgendered. Carla is worried about hate crimes not because she’s sensitive, but because she’s vulnerable to them. i don’t know if you’ve been reading many of the comments on this page, but several trans people have made it quite clear the physical violence they have suffered because they have claimed their identities.
Mary is in no position to be harmed here especially when Carla was the one being threatened???
I have. And I’d still consider it bullying if she hasn’t literally told anyone yet. Spreading it around campus, specifically to people likely to actually hurt her? That I’d say was verbal violence.
But this isn’t.
It directly affects her and seriously hurts her, but emotionally.
Again, I’m saying NO ONE should be hurt.
I don’t care if it is literally the most vile asshole on the planet.
You don’t hurt people just because they ARE being assholes.
You report them, you tell others, hell, shame them publicaly.
But violence leads to more violence.
Imagine if Carla actually got into a fight here with Mary.
The ONLY thing stopping Mary from revealing Carla’s birth sex, is that she’s getting what she wants.
And while she still hasn’t done anything to report, Ruth knows.
If Carla and Ruth went down to the main office to report her, something would actually get done. Mary may actually get kicked out, and even then if she spilled the beans on Ruth OR Carla, they could claim she’s just being vindictive and lying.
Again, I’m not saying this threat isn’t a terrible, horrible, awful thing to do. It is.
But calling it an act of violence… It’s too far. Too soon.
It makes it easier to justify physical violence.
And
While it may seem cheesy,
And it may not seem realistic sometimes.
Violence is never the answer.
Hitting people, getting into fights?
It’s messy, and just ends up hurting both people.
If they want to truly deal with Mary, they need the faculty on their side.
Matters very little if she’s close enough to the truth to get under Ruth’s skin. At this point, she has no incriminating evidence, true, so it’s her word against Ruth’s if they decide to take it to the manager. Otherwise, she has enough information to give the impression of knowing everything and make a compelling threat.
Ruth better bark back hard from that. Marys smug assface needs to be taken down a notch. Ugh i was waiting for this update all day and after the day i had this is not the page i needed, maybe tomorrow will have the carla justice i need.
As a Christian, I just want to say that Mary does not fit into my definition of my faith. No matter your moral views, manipulation, intimidation and her other preferred behaviours are about as far from the way Christians are supposed to act as you can get. Frankly, the level of hate and unchristian behaviour that people ascribe to their religious faith horrifies me sometimes.
Might be a case of ‘missing the point’ or something, but I’m just amazed that Mary has unintentionally let Carla in on Ruth and Billie being a thing. As we’ve seen with Dina, declaring something in an area with another person there doesn’t always mean the other person just ignores it. If Ruth does just walk away (I’m rather skeptical about if she really does but we will see) I predict Carla stepping up right afterwards to call Mary out. And if Ruth stays I’m sure Carla will then try to back Ruth up, after the initial shock of Mary’s bongoiness wears off.
Mary’s a bongo, but you gotta admit, she knows how to stir shit up and create a conflict. Now Ruth knows about Becky (sorry Billie, I foresee a fight/trust issues due to you keeping it secret) and Carla knows about Ruth/Billie (and Becky unless she already knew). I’m still eagerly awaiting Joyce’s trip home, but now I’m interested in how this conflict is gonna be resolved.
Well, you take de file and you file her nails. Then you paint them with some nice french tips or pretty colors or something. Maybe rub some scented lotion on her hands. Massage them a bit.
Right, she can’t talk to her that way, horrible horrible Mary. While purposely making noise in the hallway and being an ass about it is such a saint behavior. I seriously find Carla much more annoying in this situation.
Leosapiens, some commenters are going to read your post and immediately label you transphobic. I’m not going to do that. I’m transgender, and I think you might not realize just how painful Mary’s comment can be. Mary’s comment was like punching Carla in the stomach. Heck, Carla probably would have preferred the punch. When my own wife tells me, “You’re a wonderful man,” she means it as a compliment, but it still hurts. I don’t want to be wonderful at being a man.
(Projecting here a little, but…) Carla has always wanted to be just one of the girls. Her life’s dream is something most women take for granted. She reaches a point where she can finally be comfortable with herself and her surroundings. She considers the dorm a safe place, where she can be a girl around other girls. Even when Carla does bad things (like skating in the halls), it’s progress – earlier in life, she probably wouldn’t have been comfortable putting herself out there like that. She had to feel safe before she could be assertive enough to break the rules. And then Mary tells her, “You’re not who you think you are, and you don’t belong here.” And on some level Carla believes her, even though Mary is an evil witch, because Mary’s repeating the fears that are already bouncing around Carla’s subconscious.
I don’t think anyone is saying Carla is without sin. But Mary’s slur is exponentially worse, to the point that Carla’s transgression is now just a blip on the horizon. Trans people make mistakes just like everyone else. If a mistake warrants punishment, fine, but focus on the crime. There’s no call to question her gender identity. Play the ball, not the player.
I actually missed the entire plot point of Carla being trans… Like entirely o_o
I think I might not be a very observant reader *facepalm*. So I figured the whole “boy’s wing” thing was Mary calling her a slut or something, and wasn’t sure what the hell was Ruth overreacting about.
Looking back, yes that is a pretty awful thing to say.
It’s not about Carla being some unapproachable saint, it’s that she doesn’t, and under no circumstances ever would, deserve transphobia.
It is okay to think Carla was previously being an annoying butthole. Nobody thinks you’re a bad person for that, but you have to acknowledge that regardless of Carla’s actions, which amount to little more than being kind of a pest, she doesn’t deserve to be attacked for being trans.
I actually missed the entire plot point of Carla being trans… Like entirely o_o
I think I might not be a very observant reader *facepalm*. So I figured the whole “boy’s wing” thing was Mary calling her a slut or something, and wasn’t sure what the hell was Ruth overreacting about.
Looking back, yes that is a pretty awful thing to say.
It is fairly telling that most everyone who has said “so what is the big deal” immediately turned that around when they found out the Carla was trans and that Mary was engaging in hate speech.
You’d be surprised. They might not stick around as in bingereading the comic out of any enjoyment of the material, but they do pop up every now and then to try to convince people that Willis is a dangerous heretic.
It is heartening… but we’re also on a message board for fans of a comic strip that caters to somewhat liberal values. I’m not surprised to see that most DoA fans are supportive of GLBT issues. I’m afraid this discussion would probably turn out different on many (if not most) other message boards.
I actually missed the entire plot point of Carla being trans… Like entirely o_o
I think I might not be a very observant reader *facepalm*. So I figured the whole “boy’s wing” thing was Mary calling her a slut or something, and wasn’t sure what the hell was Ruth overreacting about.
Looking back, yes that is a pretty awful thing to say.
I still don’t think this loses something from Mary being so underdeveloped. I mean, there’s not been a strip where she spoke and didn’t demonstrate herself being hateful, bitter and/or bigoted. Up until this recent sequence, she barely seemed like a student.
I’m not defending her – there is very little to defend. She’s got all the depth of an atheist in a Chick Tract or an Adam4d strip. I’m just saying, this would carry more weight if it’d been said by a character in whom I was already invested – though it’s partly balanced out because the person being hurt, Carla, *is* someone in whom I’m invested.
Surely she’ll just take Mary down anyway and damn the consequences? What’s her line “Act with integrity, no matter what.”? She was willing to die in a car crash but she’ll be afraid of losing her job? I think Mary has massively underestimated Ruth. And she is going to pay for it!
This is largely aside, but part of me wonders if Mary -really- doesn’t believe in the validity of transgenderism, or if she doesn’t actually care in general and just used hate speech solely for the sake of doing the most damage to someone who annoyed her. Presumably Mary was aware of Carla before this, yet we have no knowledge of her trying to raise a stink until now.
It’s utterly vile either way, and actually I’m not sure which is the MORE vile of the two, lest anyone think this is some sort of roundabout attempt at defense of Mary. She’s indefensible. She’s vile and terrible and evil and WRong with a capital WR. Just to be clear on that.
Oh, I’m sure she’s being genuinely 100% all natural organic transphobic here. Now whether she is so because she genuinely believes they are damned to Hell or simply revels in her social power over them is a different matter, but I have no doubt she views Carla as a “fake woman”.
To be honest, today’s comic feels refreshing, which I’m aware is a very privileged stance given how relatable today’s scene is to a lot of readers. It’s nice to have a nigh objectively evil character I can hate that isn’t waving a gun around.
If I were Ruth, I’d remind Mary that the thing about Mutually Assured Destruction is that mutual destruction is assured.
Yeah, she takes down Ruth, maybe leaves Carla with emotional scars and destroys what little Becky has left in her life. However, she goes through the rest of her college career known as one of those people. She won’t have any friends; people won’t trust her and they won’t help her. She’ll graduate, maybe, under a cloud and that reputation of connivance and pettiness will follow her everywhere.
Seriously, woman, do you really want to have the details of this mess on your permanent record? Do you want to have the media ask you why you had this young woman who was nearly murdered by her mad father turfed out on the street, your face instantly known across Indiana as that petty monster? Do you want the ‘sensitivity’ course forced on you as a condition of your continued presence at IU? Do you want to go to a job interview one day and have the interview panel bring this up and ask you pointed questions about your ‘commitment to diversity’? Let me tell you that, if you insist on making this official, all these things and more will befall you..
That’s not how it works. Why would the media go after Mary? 1) She’s not responsible, legally, for whether or not Becky gets to stay in the dorm; the university is. She wouldn’t be directly involved in any decision to evict Mary, she’s just some random student who snitches to the relevant authorities — why would the media hold her responsible for what is ultimately the university’s decision?; 2) The university would (perhaps, IANAL) be within their rights to evict Becky anyway — which might not stop the media from drumming it up into a scandal, but at least it gives them less of a case and so decreases the probability of that happening.
As for friends — sure, Mary isn’t the most pleasant person in the world, but there are lots of people out there with similar values and personalities who might be more than willing to let a thing like this slide. The world isn’t this righteous place where everybody gets their just desserts, as I’m sure you’re aware.
Or some other wingnut welfare – she could make hay in the RW circles with stories of being beaten by a big angry bisexual, with a bit of fact massaging.
It would have to be an atheist puppy into a secular orphanage set on fire with a lightning bolt from a clear blue sky. But yes, she would totally punt that puppy.
alright, what did Mary say that was so offensive in the last one? Was it cut or something? It seems like an insult to say “You belong with the boys!” sure, but not even a good one.
Carla is transgender, so Mary saying she belongs with the boys is an intentional attack on her gender identity and status as a woman. It’s a super fucked up thing to say to a trans person.
Dammit Willis, I’ve been conditioned by your other rounded characters – and suspicions re Mary’s ever-present wrist coverings (seriously, she wears those things everywhere, it’s like Sal’s gloves) – to expect some kind of tragic backstory reveal any time now. Don’t make me feel sorry for Mary!
Incidentally, I just went back and checked to confirm what I’d been thinking – today (as in, this comic day) is the first time we’ve ever seen Mary’s wrists. The only time she hasn’t been explicitly shown with the wristbands – including undressed/in nightwear – was when she was wearing a long, cuffed sleeve. She even had them on with the same type of sleeve she’s currently wearing, but “today” she doesn’t. Significant, or red herring?
OK, looks like I’m going to have to go check again. Don’t want to contradict Willis on his own comic, but I went through the entire tagged history today…
Mmnope, I just went through them all again (fortunately she hasn’t been in that many strips!) and there isn’t a single one before this chapter where she isn’t wearing either her wristbands or a cuffed sleeve. The closest I can find is one where her cuffs are slipping down slightly as she’s sitting outside her room waiting for Roz & Riley to leave.
Eh. I guess Sal’s gloves just made me put two and two together and come up with five. Stick a fork in this one, it’s done.
Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure Mary would ask the same question about Carla.
I hate Mary, but she’s well-written, which is why I’m enjoying the storyline. I just wish Mary’s brand of evil was confined to fiction. I’ve run into way to many Mary’s in real life, some of whom are in my own family.
No. It isn’t supposed to stop people from becoming like Mary. It does however put some limits on how much they can bother everyone else who wants nothing to do with them.
That is perhaps arguable, but even if its true, we might want to severely constrain the methods society can legitimately employ in its attempt to prevent people like Mary from being around. Constrain them so severely, that is, that we are forced to accept that they are fallible.
Because you can’t just kill people for being awful. That leads to mob mentality and lynchings and all that stuff. You realize that if we were allowed “get rid of” everybody we didn’t like, Carla could be dead right now. Because there are still a ton of people who think that transgendered people shouldn’t exist, and could definitely rally up enough people to go on a killing spree if they knew that they wouldn’t get in trouble for it, because everybody supports them. Mary’s despicable, yeah. But if you can just kill her off because you don’t like her and not face any consequences, then my classmates back in Georgia could have killed me when I was a kid because I read Harry Potter and people thought I was a lesbian and to them, that makes me as bad as I think Mary is right now.
Kill, no. Force her to confront the fact that hating someone for something harmless is wrong no matter whether it’s mandated by a god until she stops being such a horrible person, yes.
That night, Mary wakes up to Sal and Sarah pinning her down in her bed and Dina sitting on her chest and snarling. Joyce, shrouded in shadows off to the side, says only “we know where you sleep”.
The gambit fails because college isn’t actually the Nights Watch, but live the dream…
843 comments. Damn. I don’t think I’ve seen this many on one page, ever. Even on gender-issue pages there’s max ~500.
I mean, I get it, Mary’s being what we expect her to be. Rowdy waters on the horizon. But this reaction is unexpected, even from us. Though I find it even odder that the previous page has comments closed… don’t think I recall one like it – at least not that I noticed.
yesterday when i tried to read comments. it was closed for some reason.
but that comic did leave me a feeling of dread. like she was going to let something horrible happen to Carla. Yes Carla is pretty stupid. but she doesn’t deserve that!
Now Mary is blackmailing the RA WHO got acress to her room easily and even taunting her? it is just Evil. and it will come back to bite her arse.. hard.
Okay, I’m not on Team Carla by any chance but I’m definitely on Team anyone But Mary. Two rotten people being wrong to each other just became an two assholes VS someone more vile than Amber’s dad!
One thing I’ve thought of that I haven’t seen mentioned. This school is really worried about looking bad. It’s filming sex in the dorm looks bad.
Do you know what also would look bad? Kicking out the victim of a highly publicized abuse case while she’s trying to find more permanent residence. The headlines pretty much write themselves.
The thing with Leslie would be a godsend to the university, and might even be how they can work out letting Becky go to school at the university. Instead of being called kicking her out, the story would be about how great the school is for giving the victim a chance.
And then Leslie should be allowed by GodWillis to get together with Daisy as a reward for being so awesome.
Jesus, I’m actually super thankful for Willis closing the comments yesterday. I have no idea why people are being so harsh towards Carla or saying that she’s somehow “worse” or “in the wrong” compared to Mary, who, by all means, is a Million Times Worse. Carla’s sin was being annoying, Mary’s is fucking horrible transmisogynistic, bigoted comments and now to top it off fucking blackmail to avoid facing any repercussions for her behaviour, like.
Sadly, Willis was talking about how he woke up to a giant flood of a-holes ranting about ess-jay-doubleyous, so I imagine if comments had gone up, it would have been nothing but that for an hour and a half, which would have been… fun. Super fun.
She could have asked politely? Like, no one is pointing out that Carla was being a jerk, but she immediately escalated with CAN YOU NOT??? if she had spoke calmly, Carla would have felt like a jerk, stopped, AND THIS WOULD BE OVER!
Carla doesn’t deserve all this hate, and if someone’s argument about the original incident is based around “politeness”re: rolling around, surely that same politeness should be applied to Mary’s response TO Carla.
Well, if she’d been polite Carla would have continued. “Fuck Mary” is sound policy for her. But Ruth would have told her to knock it off (Because of course she would, she doesn’t actually put up with petty disruptions all that much). Frankly I’m 80% sure she was following the stomps to ram Carla through a wall when she heard Mary be the worst human being in their building.
Oh, very much so. Her earlier motion through the hall had all the telltale signs of her being on the warpath, so I’m sure that’s exactly what her intention was.
Mary is awful, and her presence is more of a disruption than a hundred hopping roller-skaters. Her views are bigoted and horrible, and her behaviour and personality aren’t any better.
Carla deserves the right to a living space free of hate or fear, and should 100% receive the full support of any authority brought into this scene (morally, I mean, the fictional administration might handle this badly, as many/most real-life college administrations would.
All that being said, the content of some of these comments are pretty upsetting. I understand the desire to vent, especially when confronted with characters and situations that reflect things in one’s real life. But, speaking as someone with something of a history with verbal abuse and aggressive threats as a daily reality, reading through hundreds of comics with a liberal amount of threats and wishes of bodily harm, is no fun at all. I’ve been flinching like a fool over here.
So, if I’m saying anything (which to be fair, is always doubtful), it’s this: I understand and fully support your dislike or hatred for this character, and her views and actions. But if, when expressing that hatred or dislike, you decide to limit yourself to not using threats of bodily harm, that would make these comments a more welcoming place for myself (and, I’m assuming, some other people who share my own charming neuroses and personal history).
This might be a case of shutting the door after the horse has bolted, or being overly focused on people’s tone, but I thought I’d put it out there. Feel free to say I’m just being a wimp, though, it’s probably true.
Could people please stop hating on other people here?
Ok look. I think that 20 strips or so Carla was in the wrong for skating in the hallway to anmoy her roommate. That’s just an annoying thing to do and yes, she was being a jerk.
I think that every comic since then when Mary escalated and then brought hate comments into it she’s been in the wrong. So in the wrong I want to punch her in the face.
I don’t think what Carla did in any way deserves what Mary did to her. Mary is a horrible person in so so many ways. She is definitely the worst person in these comments.
And I think that a lot of people who are being accues ed of defending Mary of defending Mary are saying the same. Not trying to defend Mary here.
But people should be allowed to say Carla was in the wrong 20 comics ago without being called aholes automatically.
That distinction has been made pretty clear, though.
Prior to yesterday’s strip, the two of them were just being jerks to each other and escalating the situation.
Then Mary decides to say the most vile, transphobic shit to Carla. At that point it’s impossible to say “they both have good points” because Mary just went for the absolute lowest blow she could. It’s not equivalent anymore. Prior to that, sure, they were both just being jackasses, but Mary took it to a completely unacceptable place.
Thank you for articulating this better than I could. Having different opinions is one thing, but it’s always uncomfortable when people begin placing each other in various extremes because of those differences. Say anything negative about Carla’s behaviour and be accused of defending Mary. Share actual experiences with persecution from bigots like Mary and be accused of taking things too personally.
It’s a form of dehumanising fellow commenters that border on personal attacks and just make the comments unnerving to read. Can’t we just leave those discussions to their respective strips and unite in how unabashedly malevolent Mary is in this one?
Wow, Mary had the audacity to expect to be able live and study where she paid for, a place with rules that made sure all students were able to enjoy certain aspects such as quiet hallways. How dare she get upset that an asshole kept rollerskating and stomping outside her door just to spite her even though she first asked politely for quiet?
Don’t get me wrong, she acted like a bigoted asshole, but the leverage she’s got is true, and she literally tried to do anything else first.
Some bozos in here ask why she didn’t ask to be moved elsewhere. Why, because someone is abusing and disregarding rules? If anyone should move it’s Carla, to a place where people don’t mind her acting like a noisy asshole.
Yes, Carla /should/ move in an ideal world (Where we pretend screwing Mary over in a minor way isn’t a completely legitimate goal on its own merits for a queer woman). If she doesn’t though, you either have to call an RA or similar to make her, or you move. You don’t do any of the horse shit Mary pulled after she asked. If you’re an actual adult, you learn to deal with what you have – and let’s not kid ourselves, Carla wasn’t all that loud. It’s just skating on carpet. Yeah, it’s not like it’s stone silent, and yeah, it’s kind of annoying, but it’s a fucking college dorm. You have people stomping about above, below, and tot he side, parties, impromptu parties, folks chattering in the common room (WHICH IS THERE FOR CHATTERING), and a thousand other noises.
Yeah, Carla’s kind of fucking annoying, but the adult thing to do is deal with it in a proper way. And this isnt’ some sort of idiotic maturity-test deal. This is self-care. You learn what sorts of noises may actually require outside intervention, and what’s understandable and oh-well, and put on some headphones or bail to a seperate space (And it’s a fucking college campus, it has numerous spaces designed for quiet study). If you try to escalate with everyone making noise, you are never going to get shit done, and you will be reviled for good reasons (BECAUSE PEOPLE NEED MORE OF THOSE WITH MARY). And you will also be an enormous dick at best, and that’s far more ‘best case’ than Mary got.
Carla’s an asshole, but Mary’s a bigger one by every definition, even only accounting for her actions before yesterday and in this exchange with Carla. Also: I’m not ‘asking why Mary didn’t move’. I know why; she’s a bully, and she wanted a bully pulpit. She wanted an excuse to be a bastard to Carla. It’s fucking obvious from her actions. She wants to win everything.
Not letting a student study is not screwing them over in a minor way. If Mary failed she’d have to pay for another year worth of tuition. We’re talking an average 50,000 dollars for three years. Do 16,600 thousand dollars and one year of your life sound like minor pestering to you?
She was loud enough to be heard distinctly across the hallway and inside a room. And when she found out she is annoying someone who wants to study she kept at it because she was an asshole.
Study rooms exist on every floor of dorm buildings and a dedicated larger study areas exists on the bottom floor of every dorm. Most other buildings also have study areas. Unless Mary suffers from a horrible disability which physically blocks her ability to move even with mechanical aid, she’s not in threat of failing for having to withstand extremely quiet carpet shuffling noises (Willis confirmed that the noise Carla was making was on carpet and relatively quiet).
And seriously, if you’re going to fail out of school because of someone skating in the hall in the middle of the day. Once. Fairly briefly, until you made a huge deal of it. Then you’re going to fail. How are you going to deal with people chatting in the hall. With people playing music next door. With parties. With having a roommate who ever does anything. People having sex next door.
College dorms are not perfectly silent temples to scholarship. They’re inhabited by loud, obnoxious, teenagers. They can’t be. You have to be able to deal with it. Block it out. Focus past it. Do your studying elsewhere.
If Carla had been blasting music so the walls were shaking. If she’d been screaming at the top of her lungs in the hall or banging on the door or walls. Then there’d be justification for getting someone (RA/hall manageer/etc) to intervene because of the noise.
As it was, it reads far more as “Mary gets the chance to hassle someone she doesn’t like” with the added bonus that it’s the trans girl.
A dedicated and prolonged campaign to prevent Mary from studying would indeed not be minor, but 10 or 20 minutes in a semester is a pretty small deal even if Mary has literally no recourse but to accept it. 10 minutes always sounds like a small part of my life.
Of course, Mary /does/ have recourse. She can move.
Excuse the fuck out of me, but are you REALLY comfortable with the fact you’re saying “preventing someone from studying I’ve afternoon can ruin their lives forever” while downplaying the effects of transphobic and lesbophobic hate speech?
I feel sorry on your behalf. That you had to explain this. again.
You are 100% right.
( Ive been saying the same things since the arc started )
Dont feel you need to be the jack-ass whisperer to every self-entitled, straight person …who feels their privilege to own the world is eroded by an Imaginary Trans Woman on roller skates.
“She’s skating so loud, I cant feel my Gender & sexual-Orthodoxy hegemony. Its melting”
Mary’s rights do not extend to turning a blind eye to crimes she commits. Assault, vandalism, and blackmail, for a start. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that there were more which happened off-camera.
I can sympathize with the problem of noisy neighbors, but I cannot sympathize with escalating the problem.
Nor do I, but let’s face it, Carla could de-escalate the entire thing, go to Mary and demand her money back for the skates, or she’d report her for vandalism.
But Nope! STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMP
The entire thing escalated into who could be the bigger asshole and get away with it. Sorry, Mary won.
Most dorms have established quiet hours for the hallways and normally they don’t start until around 9 or 10pm (in my experience). Seeing how it is the middle of the day with students going to and from class Mary is not entitled to the halls of her dorm to be as quiet as a library. If she prefers/needs a more quiet environment to study she shouldn’t be in her room since a few weeks is enough time to figure out the base level of volume on your floor. Her family is paying for her to live on campus not have her dorm be the only location she can study.
The decent thing for Ruth to do would be to resign and not give in to the blackmail. The University can work with Becky to find a place to live. Maybe Ruth can get help with her alcoholism and anger issues. Otherwise, what happens if Mary gets her way? Becky still won’t stay hidden that long and Carla will have to listen to anti trans crap. With Ruth out of the way, Mary can be dealt with by either the school or the other girls on the floor.
Mary’s overplayed her hand. Considering how volatile their relationship started and how they’re now keeping up appearances, no one on that floor (and likely anywhere else) will believe that Ruth and Billie are a couple. As for Becky, if the campus finds her there, all anyone has to do is claim that she’s someone’s guest. All they have to do is avoid having more than one person claim she’s their guest at any one time.
Mary’s right about Ruth being a terrible RA… But she doesn’t really mention the real offenses that Ruth is guilty of. She doesn’t mention Ruth’s tendency for violence and intimidation. She does mention Ruth’s unethical relationship with Billie but implies that the thing wrong with it is the same sex nature of it. (As opposed to the power difference). She implies that Becky is wrong for being here because she’s a “perverted vagrant” not because it shows Ruth is apathetic to what’s going on in the hall.
She seems much more interested in being hateful than actually doing anything to deal with Ruth.
Mary is definitely more concerned with a “moral argument” than anything.
Which I think is kind of a bummer, as there’s legit reasons to hate Ruth and think Ruth deserves to be fired but that’s only being seen from Mary, and who’s going to side with Mary. She’s a total asshole.
Fair do’s, Carla being noisy is a mark against Carla. However, if Mary had wanted a peaceful resolution to the affair, she could have used her leverage with Ruth right there and then.
But no, she had to go the vigilante route with the glue (boundary nr 1 being overstepped) then “escorting” Carla to the Boy’s wing. Carla has a legitimate right to a room in the girl’s wing; it was allocated to her by the College authorities. So that’s boundary nr 2.
Now Mary’s attempted blackmail of Ruth to try and force her own will on Carla, and subvert College rules. Carla is in the right at this point – all she has to do is go to the College to enforce her rights. Mary won’t have a leg to stand on.
At this point, Mary is in the wrong having lost all claim to any moral ground by her actions.
Also, I didn’t get a chance to respond yesterday, but I had absolutely no idea Carla was trans until I read the responses to my comment yesterday. Ruth’s anger at Mary’s shameful comments make perfect sense now.
Mary is overlooking something major. Blackmail is a serious crime, which she’s committing in front of a witness. And that’s completely irrespective of everything else she’s done.
If Ruth gets caught out, she might get penalized, such as being removed from the RA position. If Mary gets caught out, she will get charged with an actual crime. Ruth still has the advantage here if she stops and thinks about it.
For real though, I remember when I had an RA who didn’t follow rules, and I wasn’t very happy about it. I share Mary’s desire to uphold rules and strike down illegal activity. So she’s not wrong to be making these accusations towards Ruth. But she’s also doing in the bongoiest way possible, and she knows it, and she LOVES it. So yeah, screw her.
We’re know she wants to enroll but it is probably too late for her to get into Fall classes now. Earlier Becky said she was reading the text book from Dina’s Bio class; I think she’s still just sitting in on them.
Also, Becky doesn’t have the money to enroll or audit yet.
So I suppose Mary’s behavior is, in a way, a threat to all trans people: step out of line in anyway whatsoever, then the slam-hammer comes down and you’ll be back to where you started.
Ooooh – wow.
I was totally confused by yesterday’s comic. I think partially because I never picked up on any of the hints about Carla, and partially because I wasn’t expecting Mary to be nearly that evil.
I hoping to find enlightenment in the comments, and was confused again that comments were closed. But it makes sense. This is one of the very few places on the web where “don’t read the comments” doesn’t apply, and I’d like to keep it that way.
I’m actually glad now I _didn’t_ get it yesterday. I was having a crappy morning anyway, and it would have hit way too close to home.
Anyway, thanks Willis, for having a trans character who is believable, occasionally sympathetic, and not played for laughs.
What exactly is Carla doing wrong in the comic above? She doesn’t even have a speaking line in this comic. She isn’t even *moving* in this one.
Why should we be discussing the events from several comics back? What is there not to understand about people talking about what’s currently happening?
I think Dez is indeed referring to the disruptive skating behavior and refusal to stop when asked. Which doesn’t justify hate speech. It was however antagonism.
Was Carla being an asshole earlier? Yes. But that doesn’t excuse what Mary is doing. I was pretty much neutral before, because they were both being pretty awful. But Carla being a pest doesn’t excuse Mary spewing a bunch of bigoted hate everywhere. Carla did technically “start it”, but right now that doesn’t really matter, because Mary took things WAY too far.
Because all she’s done is annoy someone for a few minutes when she was trying to study. Sure she’s an asshole, but it’s just not a big deal. If it were a big deal, Mary could move and Carla would likely move on. Yeah, it’s an asshole move. Ask me, I’ll tell you. Ask Carla, she’ll tell you. Sure, I don’t care on its own merits because it’s to Mary, and pretty much every queer person on the floor should hate her guts if they know anything about her, but its’ still a dick move. But let’s say it’s Sarah. I adore Sarah more than anyone else in the comic, I think (Maybe someone else wins, but Carla’s like, top 5 at best). She’d ironclad be in the right. But I’d lose respect for Sarah if she did more than trade quips with her. If it was really a problem for her, I’d expect her to move or otherwise deal (and I’d be surprised, in the negative, if a minor noise outside her dorm, was that much of a problem for her). Sure, Carla would be an asshole who’s in the wrong, but like, it’s a few minutes of skating at mid day. Deal with it. Not because I hate you or because it’s an important test of your fiber,b ut like, because it’s a minor problem and since I like the characters I want them to be able to take care of themselves, because on some level I want to see all the Dumbs succeed (They won’t. They wooooon’t. But I want to see them do so).
Since I didn’t get to say yesterday, I’ll say it here: I love that Ruth, with all her jackassery, swoops in like a flying mama bear out of hell and nowhere to lay down the law. Now I just hope she still lays down the law.
Why doesn’t anyone just talk to Mary? Like sit her down, and explain why her viewpoints are hurtful. Leslie could do it. Cause I don’t think you can get rid of years of someone being told one thing (that gays and transgendered people are bad) with brute force. All that does is make people like that view themselves as the hero, fighting against religious oppression or for freedom of speech, our whatever they decided to make up in their head.
I take it you included the “Comments disabled” strips on the assumption they would’ve been among the most-commented had commenting been enabled. (Leaving aside what most of those comments would’ve been like… :p )
I’m surprised not a single strip from 2012 broke the 500-comment barrier. A quick spot check shows that year included:
— The sequence in which Joe castigates Danny for not taking Billie up on her ‘casual bang’ offer. I’d recalled that moment arousing a lot of discussion both on and off-site, for what it did or didn’t reveal about Joe’s character, and for the issue of consent. I guess most of the on-site discussion of that moment came much later.
— The full story of how and why Sarah reported Dana. That was pretty major, as it caused many readers to rethink their “Other than defending Joyce that one night, Sarah’s a complete jerkass” assumption.
The author has gotten better at writing villains but I’m having a hard time deciding if that’s overflown to antagonists.
I mean – Ol’ Gash Face had clear motivations & was an evil person; which the characters have to face and overcome. The same with Mr. O’Malley, Toe Dad, and Mary…sure, throw in Faz. Whether they did or not is kind of up in the air and that vagueness lets this particular comic have the quality it does.
But antagonists…I’m told I have an askew view on antagonists (the generous way of saying it) in that to me, an antagonist has to as Khan put it in Star Trek 2, ‘task’ the protagonist. Look at say Devil May Cry 3 or Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. There is a clear villain and a clear antagonist. The villain in DMC3 was a dude wailing “I want to be a god, so you should allow me to kill anyone I want in order for me to get what I want which is basically the ability to hurt everyone and you shouldn’t harm me because that’s not what I want.”. The _antagonist_ was the main character’s twin brother that, since they are half-human & half-demon, chooses to embrace his infernal heritage as well as setting himself at odds with the protagonist to task the protagonist with engaging his humanity. In Snake Eater, the villain was the Russian rebel nuking his own country for political cover in order to buy time for the military take over that spent his newfound extra time practicing his sadism. The antagonist is the main character’s…more than mentor who on one hand taught him about being a soldier yet challenges everything that meant in every encounter.
And that’s what I mean by the author has improved writing villains (again, compare Mary to the Head Alien in It’s Walky or Sydney Yus in Shortpacked). But antagonists? Dorothy tasks Joyce…but neither is an antagonist to the other. Joyce (being a reflection of a ‘welcome to reality’ author) has never used faith and faith alone to defend against any of Dorothy’s points and has also never been correct or won by referring to the Bible. Now this may be a reflection of reality as people become less religious the more they understand about the real world, the less violence is allowed to destroy non-faithers and the fewer governmental mandates there are. But it’s not a narrative antagonist relationship. Neither is the reverse: Dorothy isn’t overcoming anything with Joyce except Joyce’ own oppression.
Now granted, this may be just the nature of a man vs. himself, slice of life & personal growth comic. But maybe I’m just more of a Sal vs. Amazi-girl kind of person.
“(again, compare Mary to the Head Alien in It’s Walky or Sydney Yus in Shortpacked)”
Those aren’t fair comparisons, because those are completely different characters from different universes. There isn’t really an equivelent to dropping dead parents onto someone’s head. And Sydney Yus was a parody of the whole “mortal enemy” idea anyway.
Darth Vadar is a great villain. So is Londo from Babylon 5. But I wouldn’t say that one was better than the other. They’re different.
How exactly are we not supposed to be on Mary’s side here? She was just trying to study. Carla was the one being a huge bongo. And how is implying a tomboy would better fit in the boys’ wing somehow a terrible offense? Did I miss something?
Also, to be fair, Ruth *is* a terrible R.A. for more than the reasons Mary listed. Threats of violence are not cool.
Unfortunately, that’s not a question that lends itself to a “reader’s digest” answer. The trans community’s terminology has been evolving, so you’re going to get a bunch of different answers from different people, some of them very upset, because “transsexual” is actively offensive to a lot of folks.
Transgender (not transgendered) is the generally preferred term, so stick with that if you aren’t yourself trans. Also, “trans woman” and “trans man” are two words.
Carla’s not a tomboy, she’s trans. Mary is mocking her for being a trans woman by calling her a man – and, incidentally, trans women are generally at greater risk for being assaulted, so taking her to the boy’s wing could very well put her in actual danger. Hopefully not, but we’ve already seen this school has some skeevy guys in it.
Carla is already established as being very sensitive to transphobic comments – she was very upset when someone drew a dong on her door, thinking it was an act of hate towards her.
And while Carla was being noisy, Mary took it too far by destroying Carla’s property – and the school’s flooring. Skates are expensive, and those were brand new ones, to boot. Mary could have gone to the RA at any time to complain about the noise, but instead she has been petty and hateful.
I mean, much as we may sympathize with Carla (and clearly she is not entirely without fault here, but lawyerly discussions of culpability is perhaps beside the point: we like Carla, so we root for her), she isn’t really the main character of this confrontation: Ruth is. The Carla-Mary thing is really more of a narrative expediency to bring us up to the real dramatic confrontation, which is Mary confronting Ruth with the potential consequences of her forbidden romance. Note how Carla has receded into the background in recent strips.
If Mary was just trying to study, she had several means of recourse that didn’t involve vandalizing the hall, or trying to get Carla injured. (She could have went to the RA, and then the higher ups when Ruth would inevitably blow her off. She could have seemed out a quieter study area). And there was no reason for the transphobic comments she made yesterday, other than to be hateful.
I don’t know why y’all are so adamant on trying to exculpate Carla entirely. We like Carla because she’s a bit of a trickster, don’t we? We like her because she sticks it to stuck-up bongoes like Mary? We like herbecause she’s not a mild-mannered paragon of virtue? Why can’t we all just admit that she was being a bit annoying, and that we like it?
I wasn’t saying Carla is a perfect blameless angel. Carla is obnoxious as hell. What she was doing was super obnoxious. Mary was right to be angry about it.
Mary was wrong to try and trip her.
Mary was wrong to vandalize the hall with glue and ruin Carla’s skates.
Mary was wrong to attack Carla’s gender identity.
I’m honestly not getting the whole “But Carla deserves it for being obnoxious!” Carla is a jerk. But the things Mary has done to her are worse.
No problem. It’s easy to see people’s opinions blend together when there’s tons of comments. I meant that last paragraph more for the OP, and everyone saying Mary was right, not you. Sorry for the confusion.
She’s bigoted against trans individuals and pretty much everyone else LGBTQ. She’s trying to dehumanize Carla, Billie and Becky simply for being themselves. I could go into a long discussion about what lead up to this situation, but it’s irrelevant. Mary is a horrible bigot, and therefore she’s now in the wrong, no matter how we got here.
I honestly don’t understand how Ruth dating/sleeping with one of the students would be misconduct? During my undergraduate, one of my friends was an RA, and her boyfriend transferred to live on her hall. Nobody seemed to care, because it’s not like the RA is an adult faculty member – Ruth’s just another student with a few weeks of conflict resolution training.
The alcohol would definitely get her in trouble, but since she didn’t even know about Becky yet, so long as she pursued the matter, I doubt it would count that badly against her, either.
See, this is why kindness triumphs over an iron fist.
When you you’re kind, and you show weakness, other people whom you’ve helped show up to back you up.
When you wield an iron fist, and you show weakness, you have nothing, and it will be exploited.
Eh, not really. Sure, Ruth is a horrible RA. But Mary isn’t upset that she’s sleeping with one of her charges and bullies people and is letting an unauthorized person stay in the dorms. She’s upset that she’s in a *lesbian* relationship with a student, and is letting an unauthorized *lesbian* girl stay in the dorms, and is now trying to stop her from being a hateful bigot towards a transgendered person.
If Mary had reported Ruth a while ago for things that actually made her a horrible RA, that would be one thing. But that’s not what she’s doing. She’s threatening to ruin her life unless she walks away and lets her continue to spew vitrol at Carla.
Yes, she finally made it clear beyond a shadow of doubt that she’s a hateful, manipulative and self-righteous individual. Like Toedad, but smarter – and that’s not a compliment.
In what universe is this “like it is”, she’s not “defiling” Billy, and Becky is not a “perverted vagrant”. All she did was take a few bits of information she happened to pick up and envelop it in bigotry. Of all the thing Ruth did wrong, and the bending of rules concerning Becky, all Mary cares about is the fact they’re not heterosexual. Just like I’m pretty sure most of her issues with Carla come from Carla not being Cis, not her actual skating.
Are there reasons to call out Ruth? Of course, are any of those the ones Mary brought up? Hardly, and even if they were, the way she phrased them completely invalidated her concerns.
TBH this reminds me of the Spring Valley student that was assaulted by a police officer. People were saying that she was rude, that she did not respect the police. And yeah maybe that was true, but SO WHAT? Throwing her and literally dragging her is an OVERREACTION for such an offence. Any right to be offended by her alleged disrespect was immediately evaporated by his actions.
Same with Mary: any sympathy she might have had over being annoyed by Carla was instantly evaporated when she started using hate speech. She went from “she might have point” to “she’s 1000% in the wrong”
It’s more like if the Spring Valley student thing was shown to everybody two seconds at a time, stopping for twenty-four hours after each two-second interval and allowing people to discuss it.
Police Officer: *tells girl to stop texting and come with him to the office*
A: Yeah, that girl is in the wrong.
ONE DAY LATER
Police Officer: *grabs girl and flips her over the desk*
A: What the hell?
B: See, all of you who defended the officer yesterday were siding with a racist. Also I’m going to heavily imply that you yourself are racist and don’t care about black people.
A: Uh, no, I was defending the officer yesterday because she was texting and he was telling her to stop.
B: DID YOU SERIOUSLY JUST SAY THAT SHE DESERVED TO BE FLIPPED OVER THE DESK BECAUSE SHE WAS TEXTING??????
A: No, I said she deserved to be taken out of class for texting. Flipping her over the desk was messed up and the officer should be fired.
B: NO. You can not side with the officer for an entire day and THEN say he went overboard. He’s racist and you sided with him, and now you’re victim blaming too. Also, did you REALLY just say that what the officer did was “messed up” instead of “completely horrible and deserves death”? Maaaaaaaybe you should rethink your phrasing.
Yeah, in real life there were a bunch of assholes siding with the officer after they saw him flip a little high-schooler over the desk. Those people are disgusting. But comparing them to people who took Mary’s side (or even just said that both of them were assholes and should be punished) UNTIL she went and started spouting bigoted nonsense is just ridiculous.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that commenters who were defending Mary BEFORE she showed her true ugly colours are retroactively transphobic, though?
Commenters that are defending Mary today and yesterday, AFTER she showed that she knows that Carla is trans that she will attack her for it; those commenters are on the wrong side of the argument.
The only person that is actually retroactively transphobic here is Mary: she has been escalating the situation so she can drop a bomb, she did not stumble into it by accident.
Sorry, I’m a scrub and a bit slow on the uptake. Totally missed that Carla was trans until I saw the comments today, which makes yesterday’s comic much much different. Was it hinted-at/established in other strips? If so, where?
In general, the tags are useful in searching for strips about particular characters. To see an array of all the strips about Carla (10 at a time), click on “carla” in the list of tags in the title box (today’s is titled “Leverage”).
three others last I checked. The comic where Carla goes ‘that is a hate crime’ for the dick on her door, the mentioning she gets a room to herself, and the fact that she mentions she’s tall for a reason, and sal responds ‘the [roller folk] wouldn’t care [about said reason].’
(If it wasn’t for Ruth and Carla’s reaction, I wouldn’t think yesterday’s strip counted as establishment either, considering that for whoever didn’t know it could have been/was read as just a “Carla is too rambunctious so she’ll fit in better with the boys” type of comment. Then again, I can’t read between lines, I only knew of Carla from the get-go due to having read Shortpacked! IDEK)
Let me get this straight. There’s an RA that’s having a lesbian affair with another student. There’s a lesbian living “on the sly” in the dorm that recently survived a violent attack by her fundamentalist father. There’s a transgendered girl being bullied by a homophobe. Now, the homophobe thinks the university will be on her side. Anyone care to guess what parts of this will be classified as acceptable and who will be shuffled off campus before the ink on the expulsion papers has a chance do dry?
Well, Ruth and Becky will probably face some major problems, given that one is an alcoholic RA and the other isn’t a student.
Unless I’m misunderstanding IU’s policies on gender identity based harassment, what Mary did previously would count and she would be punished for it, though given the state of harassment cases concerning straight white people spewing bullshit, chances are she’d just be let off with a talking to.
I just wanted to offer some compliments.
1. This is a good comic. I hate it, but that’s it doing exactly what it was supposed to.
2. This is a pretty good comment section, with special kudos to Cerberus among others.
3. This was an awful comment section yesterday, so good job cleaning it up.
In case this type of callout is not allowed, I will put this in a separate message: There is a reason there is a comment a ways above, in which only an email and IP address is posted.
Yes, you missed all the fucked up posts that guy made, hence why his own post was turned into an email and IP address of his own, I would wager. At this point he is blocked forever, thank god.
In yesterday’s comic, when Mary first says she’s “taking Carla to the boy’s wing where she belongs”, Carla goes from happy to a sort of blank look on her face.
Any guesses what her emotional state was then? Shocked that her secret was revealed? (Although other characters knew and she didn’t react the same way.) Upset that things have gone too far? Anger?
Probably all of the above. I know it isn’t quite the same, but when I’m feeling happy and comfortable enough to let people know that I’m asexual and then they turn around and call me selfish, or a freak of nature, or just confused, I feel awful. And that’s when I’ve actually TOLD people. If somebody who I don’t like but don’t know very well either came up to me and told me, “I found out you’re asexual and biromantic, you disgusting abnormality, and I’m going to use this information to torment you, and also I go to the same school as you AND live close to you, so there’s nothing you can do to get away from me (unless you move out)” I don’t know how I would feel.
i would describe when that stuff happens IRL as a sort of cold-fire that consumes me from the gut, radiating outward. it is a kind of fear that immobilizes, while simultaneously going into fight-or-flight mode. all other thoughts except survival cease. if i am lucky, i can get angry enough to shake out of the fear long enough to make myself safe. the days and months that follow (especially with the person who did that living right next door) would be filled with panic attacks, sleeplessness, generalized anxiety and withdrawal from social activity.
Complete shock and fear are pretty much the usual reaction. I’ve been outted before, and when it comes from left field like this it’s impossible to react any other way. Willis hit the nail on the head.
is it alright to hate mary now? I feel she is the crazy type of religious, you know the type that violently attacks people because they ate fish on the wrong day or what not…
Er, what? Seriously? You think that someone can just bounce back from something like this? It isn’t easy to just walk away from being told that you “shouldn’t exist”, or that you’re a “knockoff”.
It doesn’t matter how “tough” you are, being treated like that when you aren’t expecting it can shock you. I like to think I’m fairly level-headed, but I still get shocked when somebody treats me like shit because I’m asexual and I remember that, yeah, there are horrible people in the world. Before Mary pulled that transphobic shit, it seemed like they were just annoying each other for the sake of annoying each other. I’m sure Carla knew that Mary was a judgmental jerk, but she clearly didn’t expect THAT. Heck, I bet she didn’t even know Mary KNEW she was transgendered. That just went from Assholish Prank Wars to Telling Carla She Isn’t Really A Woman, And That She Doesn’t Belong In Her Home, And Also Now I’m Going To Blackmail The RA Into Letting Me Bully You Until You Do Leave.
“I like to think I’m fairly level-headed, but I still get shocked when somebody treats me like shit because I’m asexual”
I’m surprised to hear that asexuals are facing hostility. I thought they “only” faced persistent and omnipresent erasure, but I haven’t heard of hostility. I should read up on the subject.
It usually goes from
“Whatever, asexuality doesn’t exist. You’re probably just facing trauma. Have you been raped before?” to
“Okay, I accept that for some reason you don’t feel sexual attraction to people. (Freak). But I don’t believe that you can also be romantically attracted to people.”
Then, if they EVER accept that, yes, I CAN be sexually attracted to people, they start in with,
“Okay but you still shouldn’t date people if you aren’t sexually attracted to them. That’s just selfish. You’re selfish. You should have sex anyways and provide your husband with babies.”
And then there are the people who think that asexuality is a SIN because, like I mentioned before, you apparently HAVE to have sex with your partner or you’re not doing your “duty”. (Yeah, I’ve been told that by quite a few people. And they were mostly woman, which almost makes it worse). Or the people who (thank god I haven’t experienced this myself) think that corrective rape will fix an asexual person. Or the people who say that, yeah, sure I can fall in love with and date guys all I want. But I can’t even THINK about dating a girl, because it wouldn’t be fair to date a lesbian and expect her to not have sex, and I’m probably not even biromantic anyways, just confused.
I applaud you being willing to learn otherwise, though. A lot of times instead of “I’m surprised to hear ace people face hostility, I should look into that more,” I’ve heard “No, ace people don’t face hostility, and shut up.”
I am also joining in the applause of this attitude. Now, on one hand, it is a bit sad that it’s rare enough to be something worth applauding… But on the other hand, I don’t think it’s actually wrong to positively acknowledge decent behaviour.
And personally, I am less surprised*, and already knew a bit… But I always appreciate learning even more about it. Thanks for the links, and thanks to Wublub for a brief explanation.
*Not just because I’ve read about it before, but because at this point in life, it takes a fair bit to surprise me in regards to how shitty people can act towards anyone that’s not following the “normal” way of doing things.
So in addition to being told I had no right to marry my spouse I also get the bonus of not being able to seek medical treatment unless I am actively dying. Every time (sans the nearly dying one) I’ve gone to a doctor for something or called a nurse-line they figure out my orientation and then promptly fixate on ‘fixing’ me, on how unfair it is to my spouse, and otherwise ignoring the issue I came in for.
And I’m (relatively speaking) pretty lucky. I didn’t figure out my orientation until I was out of the house (my father is pretty vocal about hating them queers, its part of why I’m estranged from my family) and it meant I was somewhat out of the danger zone.
Also, ace people are frequently targeted for corrective rape, because clearly, our problem is that we’ve just not experienced sex or had the right sex yet so once douchelord fixes us with their gonads, we’ll be right as rain.
Hell, on that score, Carla, like me has the worst of all worlds when it comes to corrective rape. The three groups most targeted for corrective rape are lesbians, asexuals, and trans people.
I really don’t get why someone would want to throw hateful comments around when Mary already says everything they think for them.
It’s like Mary gets progressively more evil every time the comments section gets progressively more toxic. Almost like the in-universe representation of the hate. That’s pretty meta, so hats off to Willis there whether it was intentional or not.
But I mean IN HER DEFENSE (not in defense of her bigotry, but in her annoyance) as someone who also had a horrible time freshman year because of loud, purposefully obnoxious jerks I sympathize with her want to just study and be left alone. And let’s be real Ruth is also kind of a terrible RA. I like her being overly violent threatening and such as a character aspect but as an RA she really kinda does deserve to be fired–like, banging a student aside, she actively threatens people and her not paying attention to her hall ALLOWED Carla to bully Mary (and as bigoted as Mary is, Carla waaaaaas harassing her). Like, Carla was not subtle about it. I’m surprised it took Mary this long to snap.
Like Mary’s a bigoted jerk but I’m finding it hard to 100% feel bad for any of these characters because of Ruth’s neglectfulness and the fact that Carla is ALSO a jerk.
I don’t think theirs much potential for an awaking because unlike Joyce Mary is deliberately cruel. Look at her face throughout this event. She loves that she’s cause people pain. Note that she has never smiled when she wasn’t cause people pain or realizing she had the chance to cause people pain. She’s not just a fundamentalist, she’s not just a bigot, she’s a smug sadist who hides behind her bible.
I’m not sure why Mary thinks this is a free pass. She’s not wrong about Ruth being derelict in her job, but that doesn’t exonerate her own crime. All Carla has to do is go over Ruth’s head herself and it’s done.
she probably wouldnt, no, but she could and this is something both mary and ruth should be aware of.
i mean fuck, considering carla is still right there and heard the blackmail material, she could take it and use it herself if it wasnt probably against her morals to do that. which would of course make ruths decision a lot easier.
I know Ruth is a bad ass and all but she can’t actually touch anyone. She’s an RA not a police officer and if she dared touch anyone she can be brought up on assault charges and face expulsion. Not saying Mary’s right but the “Recess” style dynamic of these characters is off putting and at the worst completely unrealistic.
Slightly OT, but after seeing the number of comments here, I decided to check out two other strips that I know have a quadruple digit number of comments, “Thoughts,” AND “Outrage.” This has exceeded both of those. I’m too lazy to go through every single comic, but it’s quite possible that this comic has set a record.
This may have already been pointed out in the comments here, but I’m also too lazy to read through all the comments to see if it was.
Okay, how did I miss that? I was just looking at that post with the list of most commented on posts. Sometimes, I’m dumb and oblivious. Anyway, this one gets the bronze, I suppose, at least for now.
Holy shit. Mary just went from one-note bigot to possibly the greatest villain this strip has ever had. She’s despicable and smart. She is basically institutional, life-ruining terror incarnate.
About a day late to the party, this comic & the previous one read pretty good back to back. Though I saw comment were closed for the other one. Was curious if it started off that way, or if it was done afterwards. Because one can imagine what kind of things were being said about Mary on that strip, and I think just picturing them could make paint peel.
Yesterday’s comic had the comments closed form the start, because Willis wanted to avoid the hordes of troll posts that would inevitably follow. Some discussion went on in the comments thread for two days ago, but those comments were closed eventually also.
I think the best thing would be if everyone teamed up against her. Billie claims that Ruth is just helping her with depression and alcoholism, and everyone denies knowledge of Becci.What happens to Mary then?
1,238 comments to this point, which makes this the third-most-commented-on strip to date. And that’s after Willis emptied the recycle bin earlier today…. and there’s still almost ten hours to go for it to surpass the “JoyceleneJBrown.com” thread. Keep up the good work.
A quick question, though:
RAs are usually students who are more senior than their charges. So is Ruth actually a 3rd or 4th semester sophomore (similar to Sarah), or is she perhaps even in her third or fourth year? Her claim very early in the semester that “They love me downstairs; they know that I run a tight fucking ship up here … everything nice and quiet.” makes me think that she has been doing this before and has established a reputation with Residence Life or Housing or whatever name IU gives to the department in charge of on-campus student housing.
She’s in grad school when we meet her in the Walkyverse. She’s definitely an undergrad here. I think somewhere Willis said she was a junior but I’m not sure.
Generally speaking, it’s understood that no matter how pissed off you get, you do not. Go. There. If you have any fucking sense of integrity. (Or if you do, you regret it. –Oh, look, another Joyce parallel!)
Mary crossed the moral event horizon line with that comment. Transphobia and transmisogyny are an issue at a systematic level- and it’s an issue that gets trans people killed.
NOTHING Carla has done warranted such a low blow steeped in bigotry. And as some transgender readers have said already, it’s more than just a comment.
It’s like, okay sure Carla was kind of an annoying butthole but nobody deserves that. It’d be like if Amber and Danny had a fight and then she decided to get back at him by screaming about how he should just go cheat on her.
I know Amber/Danny means a lot to you…but that hypothetical situation and this aren’t really comparable. If for no other reason than the shittiness Carla was just subjected to is a few orders of magnitude worse than that would be.
My point was that if the two of them were fighting, whatever about, that wouldn’t excuse Amber from throwing the worst of bisexuality stereotypes at Danny to get back at him, much like how, for whatever disturbance Carla was causing Mary, that doesn’t entitle her to act like a transphobic ass.
Ohhh. I see. That didn’t come through, since Amber doesn’t know and it’s not exactly unique to lover’s quarrels involving one bi partner.
Not the worst bi stereotype. “You’ve just been pretending this whole time” is the one I would’ve picked. Goes to the core of your being and identity…but maybe that’s more a thing lobbed at bi women than dudes?
It’s a more prevalent stereotype for bi people. The idea that we’re unable to be faithful because we just have to bang absolutely everything. Straight people get that too when they argue, but it’s not an ingrained stereotype that causes harm to them.
And yes, the idea that we just pretend to have attraction for more than one gender, and that we’ve been lying to ourselves/everyone the whole time is also another common stereotype. In my experiences, I notice it usually manifests for bi dudes as us actually being gay and not wanting to “fully” come out, but for bi women, it’s that they’re all actually just straight and only express attraction for other women to impress men.
No, I get it. That’s a good point that I hadn’t honestly considered.
Probably because it has not been an issue for me and always struck me as the dumbest stereotype…whereas as a bi woman with a male partner, the accusation of ‘faking it’ and the sense of not quite really belonging in queer spaces…really resonated with Mary’s ‘where you actually belong’ comment.
*dumbest in this instance meaning “why the hell would anyone actually believe that?” Second only to “no, random OK Cupid dude, I will not have a threesome with you and your wife. Please relay that message to the last 50 guys who messaged the exact same question!”
Yeah, it is a distressingly common assumption, even from the gay community, that bi folks dating an opposite sex partner means they’re faking it, or invoking their “straight passing privilege”, to use a term that makes me want to vomit.
i think the thing that really put mary’s homophobia/transphobia into perspective for me is that the things she’s attacking right now aren’t, like, ruth’s alcoholism, which actively makes her miserable. she’s attacking the things that make them happy and aren’t hurting anyone: carla’s skates, carla’s dorm, billie, becky having a place to stay.
it’s like: how dare carla be happy. how dare becky have a place to stay where she can be a lesbian. how dare ruth have a relationship with another girl. how dare.
mary didn’t create this situation, but she is taking advantage of it so she can have power and control. she wants to live in a world where they don’t exist, and it’s their very existence that makes her angry. and happiness. i’m ninety percent sure mary doesn’t believe in happiness.
so like the thing about carla, becky – yes, they’re obnoxious in their possession of their happiness, but they’re obnoxious because they are willing to defend that happiness to the death. their happiness now is what makes their lives so incredibly precious after having gone through so much pain to get there.
…idk i’m in an eliza hamilton inspired “just to be alive is a miracle” mood right now and i mean. just. screw people like mary. grind them into the mud where they’ll spend their whole lives because they can’t conceive of anything better.
The sad thing for Mary is that this is really a weakness for her. The things she could focus on could actually be damaging (i believe buying alcohol for a minor is Ruth’s only actual crime), but the things being focused on only give Mary power if the others let her have that power.
Let’s face it, from Ruth’s perspective she could kick Becky out in a heartbeat or, more realistically, help relocate her/squirrel her away somewhere until the heat dies down. And her relationship with Billie is easily deniable, or better yet, brought out into the open with a calm, coordinated conversation with the Residential manager.
Hell, if Ruth isn’t two seconds away from shutting down, she could even completely turn this around and ask Mary why she didn’t report the ‘vagrant’ to her. The RA wouldn’t be expected to be a mind reader and know a friend of one of the residents was sleeping there (though she would be expected to take action as soon as she found out). Mary not reporting it would be held against her, though not in a major way (a stern telling off at best really), but alongside gender harassment this could go down badly for her.
well, I mean, the things Mary is trying to blackmail with have power because they could be damaging to Ruth and Carla if they were publicly known. Mary is hardly the only homophobic/transphobic person out there, and it’s like what happened to Sarah. a whisper campaign could do both of them a great deal of damage.
Mary could have consequences from the administration, but that wouldn’t stop what she’d done.
Um… of those things, the Alcoholism is really the only one that _isn’t_ hurting someone else. Allowing random vagrants to live in the dorm is a very real security risk (and probably THE most serious failure on Ruth’s part), sleeping with a student under her authority is civil sexual harassment at minimum, the skating in the hallway was disrupting people’s study time (and probably against policy because it damages the flooring, which means the residents are going to see a surcharge for maintenance on their rent).
Consciously or otherwise, she’s actually more or less got her priorities straight here. Letting a rando into an apartment house without a contract or any kind of vetting is actually the big one, not only does the school not know Becky from Adam, she’s from a family of gun-toting maniacs who’ve already damn near shot up the place once. There are all kinds of shelters for runaway teens and homeless people that don’t involve compromising the security of the housing of a bunch of other minors, and even if she didn’t take action it’s still pretty much THE most important part of Ruth’s job to notice and monitor the situation.
Jesus, now that you’ve made me think of it from an actual responsible adult perspective I think I’m actually rooting for Ruth to get fired, she’s almost actively a threat to the physical safety of the people it’s her one job to protect there.
You forgot the violence – I wouldn’t put it past Mary to have used a camera to snap a shot of the dick slapping’s aftermath. Ruth needs to be out of her position yesterday.
“From the family of gun-toting maniacs who’ve already damn near shot up the place once.” By which you mean the victim of the gun-toting maniac (singular). Just fuck that.victim
Yes, that’s the clearest violation of policy, but it’s also the one with the most plausible deniability. Ruth didn’t know. Nor is she actually responsible for that kind of security, though she should obviously bring it to the attention of the proper authorities now that she’s been informed.
The skating is against policy, but literally just happened and Ruth has classes and can have a life and isn’t supposed to be a 24/7 hall monitor.
Sleeping with Billie is the big thing. And the booze if they find out about that. And frankly, I’m sure both of those go on on a regular basis at every college in the country – though probably less on the full-blown alcoholism and lesbian suicide pacts.
Ruth should go – but mostly should get help. Mary has all the wrong reasons and all the wrong motivations. And yours are pretty scary as well.
That’s what I get for commenting when tired. I should have caveated that with ‘from the university’s view’. She’s kind of problem that will cause heads to roll – allowing a alcoholic, verbally, physically abusive and threatening RA to have gone on so long is something that will be causing a great deal of hair pulling for uni higher ups – not least as she should have been caught earlier.
This! What she hates and sadly, what a lot of Christian Fundamentalists like her hate is “unauthorized” happiness. And what unauthorized means to them is that people who haven’t earned happiness by being the right form of Christian and denying themselves things like sex or not being a complete dick should not be allowed to be happy.
So a gay person or a trans person or a non-Christian or so on having joy in their life and living their life unharassed actually feels like a legitimate attack to them. Like, how dare you spit in the face of God and flaunt your joy when you haven’t earned it like me.
And sadly, I can say from direct personal experience that individuals deciding trans people like me should not be allowed to be happy in public is why I regularly resort to a resting 90 yard stare in public at all times.
If I’m having fun, laughing, being a goof, it’s too often a call for complete fucks to come ruin it.
It’s part of what I said several comics ago about trans people not really being allowed to be happy.
As self appointed President of the Mary fan-club hers dem rulez
(1) The first Rule of the Mary fan Club:
STOP Talking about the Mary Fan Club!
seriously. That means stop telling people you hope to join, and stop defending Mary in public. Bunch of wannabees
(2) The Second rule of the Mary-Fan-Club:
You have to hate Mary
(3) If this is your first Day at the Mary-Fan-Club:
You have to draw a Ding-Dong of your hand, and slap her till Next-Thursday.
“and verily did the righteous, enscribe the dingdongus upon thy right hand. And Ye shall not suffer to withold the Slappitude from Mary the unrepentant ” —The Book of Ding-Dongulus 4/04 10: 25: 2014
4
I honestly think Mary has won this one. Short of either Ruth risking eating an expulsion or Carla going to authorities, she’s basically won the confrontation – even if Ruth beats her down, she’s got more ammo to toss at her – and the previous options don’t seem likely options for the victims.
Oh, she’s the type to get evidence. Wouldn’t put it past her to have visited one of those shops where you get stuff to spy on cheating spouses, for one thing.
If she did that, I think it would probably go even worse for Mary than it would for Ruth… something like that would be considered an invasion of privacy.
While that would be true if Ruth was on top of her game, Mary has basically stolen a march on her and isn’t likely to giver her a chance to get back on her feet before striking again.
Well, there is a slim chance that the higher officials might overlook Ruth’s transgressions, as either baseless (if the rest of the floor helps hide the evidence), or relatively minor. This might especially be the case if Mary’s anti-gay/trans statements are revealed.
That’s assuming the rest of the floor does help hide the evidence or…someone that’s felt intimidated by Ruths aggression and threats (and shown to have followed through on threats) might actually back Mary up as they might not have all the information we have
Yeah, violence by Ruth is likely conceding victory to Mary – she could make hay with that and admin – particularly if she brought in the Media; I don’t think the uni would like that kind of exposure, having tolerated a violent RA for so long.
What gets me is that Ruth needs to go, her actions are bad but that its Mary that might bring her down is bad and that the information shes using is nothing compared to what Ruth has done
I mean her treatment of Billie was nothing less than bullying, physical harassment and then sexual harassment…like imagine if instead of Ruth it was Joe treating Billie that way
Ruth has some good points but is mostly a messed up unpleasant person so hopefully she’ll be removed from her position but that its Mary that might be the one to pull it off…
What gets me is that Ruth needs to go, her actions are bad but that its Mary that might bring her down is bad and that the information shes using is nothing compared to what Ruth has done
I mean her treatment of Billie was nothing less than bullying, physical harassment and then sexual harassment…like imagine if instead of Ruth it was Joe treating Billie that way
Ruth has some good points but is mostly a messed up unpleasant person so hopefully she’ll be removed from her position but that its Mary that might be the one to pull it off…
Well, I did say that it was a slim chance that Ruth’s problems would be overlooked. the most likely scenario is that she either gives in to blackmail or they both go down. But its not outside the realm of possibility.
I know violence won’t solve this but that look of pure, bigoted contempt on Mary’s face last panel is just BEGGING for an uppercut and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want to see Ruth deliver that.
Hmm. Devious, is our Mary. Key to her apparent strategy is the emphasis on the word “language.” What did she actually say? (We know damn well what she meant, or think we do, but what did she actually say? — “I’m escorting you over to the boys’ wing, where you belong.”) All she has to do in this game of brinksmanship is to say, wide eyed, “Carla’s what? I didn’t know that! I was just (more polite word for slut-shaming)!” or “I was just saying her athletic rowdiness was more suited to the boy’s wing!” This will confuse the issue sufficiently to get the school officialdom, mindful of free-speech-suppression accusations from the surrounding not-so-liberal countryside, to back off in hopes everyone will shut up. Ruth is still likely screwed, though. Mary will regard the simmering hatred of her to be a badge of honor. Becky will be officially on her own. That’s my cynical view of how this would play out IRL, anyway.
Mary may try to claim “I didn’t know she was trans” card, and there may even be a chance it might work. But she also talked about “perverted vagrants”, the use of the word perverted could be seen as an anti-gay slur.
In fairness, perverted vagrant is kind of a fair cop in this specific case. Becky’s opening move was to sexually harass an old friend, then her followup was to hook up with someone she’d known for, what, a couple of hours?
Either way, it would probably be more interesting if Mary _didn’t_ know. A lot of people don’t think that much about the implications of their insults until they actually meet someone in a category they’re using as an insult. Good opportunity to find some character development there, even if it’s just a decision to keep pushing it because she hates a specific person instead of just being a general bigot. Villains need character too!
Okay it wasn’t cool for Becky to kiss Joyce out of the blue even given the circumstances but the speed of her getting together with Dina does not speak any kind of ill on her character.
Timmy ,
What you said is insulting to much of the readership, who are LGBT or allies.
I suspect you did this purely by accident and didnt consider the unfortunate implications. Im not crucifying you. Im not saying you are a bad person. Im not even calling you out , or anything.
I just want you to be aware how it looks. You probably shouldnt EVER quote Mary’s slurs and say they are “fair” unless you yourself are the subject of them.
Becky was made homeless for being LGBT ( like many readers reading this ) . So Mary is victim-blaming 2x. Mary is the oppressor, and in the group that supports Becky being Homeless. Marys comments also indirectly attack and marginalize much of the floor. Some of whom are Trans or Lesbians or Bi.
Im feel fatigue explaining the obvious here.
Becky didnt ‘sexually harass’ anyone. First Kisses happen all the time with straight people. Its normal human behavior.
You come across super-sheltered if you think a kiss is “hooking up” .
It looks extra homophobic of you, if are slut-shaming Becky for merely holding hands, while looking at Dinosaurs.
Maybe you are just in high school or a priest or something — but there is nothing abnormal about accepting being kissed by someone youve known for hours. Becky expressed interest. Dina Kissed her back. With Straight people, this is usually called “romance” and pop-songs are written about it.
I may not respond due to said fatigue.
Just be aware how your comments effect the living readers and other fans. Thats all. A lifetime of this, takes it toll.
Beyond all that, does anyone other than Joyce & Becky even know about the kiss? People might know she had a crush on Joyce, but I don’t have the faintest idea how Mary would know the details.
And the only way to think Becky & Dina are perverted is if all lesbian relationships are perverted. They’re about as chaste as a couple can be. Hand-holding and a few kisses. Shocking!
I would wager that’s a backup strat – likely mixed with using signs of violence against her by Ruth as another ground to attack her in the eyes of admin.
If this escalated to calling in the RM, then Ruth could claim that Mary was the whiteboard dingdong bandit, but had been let off with a warning after personally cleaning it up. Plenty of witnesses to that incident, but no public resolution. That would make the glue in the skates part of a larger pattern of transphobic vandalism, with Mary as not only a bigot, but an incorrigible scumbag who cannot be trusted with second chances, while reinforcing the administration’s existing view that Ruth has been doing an admirable job of keeping the situation under control.
That depends on Ruth being in functional enough of a state to use that. It depends on how well Mary keeps her off her feet whether that trump is played.
You know, I tried finding redeemable qualities about Mary. I tried seeing her as a legitimate human being. But now? I just want to fuck her up with a chainsaw.
Reasons Karla is skating inside. (Possible)
She skates everywhere.
It’s raining outside (Indiana in October.)
She’s excited about new skates and couldn’t wait.
How Mary realized Karla GAAB male.
She looked up Karla’s skirt when she jumped over her to avoid a tripping hazard.
Possible, but there doesn’t really seem to be any indication of it. In that panel, there doesn’t seem to be any shock or surprise, just anger that she’d been thwarted in stopping her skating.
That was certainly true at first and Ruth took a lot of criticism, especially for the kiss. Since then, though their relationship certainly still has issues, it’s been a lot less one sided. Billie’s given as good as she’s got and could even be said to have to have taken charge.
Even Ruth’s abuse in the line of duty seems to have dropped off.
That’s not really something that goes away because she’s decided to stop being a horrible asshole. Ruth still needs to own up to her abuse, let alone how she was able to do so from a position of power.
I would completely agree. And do agree about the early stuff.
But the relationship from then hasn’t gone the way one with the stalker would go. Because Billie does like her. And we’ve seen enough of them to know that Ruth isn’t just using her or manipulating her. Ruth’s just as screwed up and emotionally vulnerable or even more so. As I said, not a healthy relationship, but not one-sided abuse either.
If Joe had done the first part, up to the kiss? Creepy as hell, just like Ruth was. If we’d then followed up with Joe nearly drinking himself to death and all the rest of the emotion stuff that Joe doesn’t bother with?
I’d like Joe a lot better than I do now.
Danny (rushing in, breathless): Carla! You won the Powerball! A hundred million dollars!
Carla: Cool. Now I can buy myself a new pair of skates.
Mary: Uh… Carla, old friend. Now that I think about it, I really like the sound of skates…
I seem to be blind to the bad people of the world because i continually ask this qustion;
i dont *get* mary. Most of the other antagonists so far, they’ve been understandably bad people. But mary’s just –pardon my french– a selfish bongo. She cites the same kind of background as Joyce and Becky but she draws from this pool of malice that seems to have no grounds other than “I don’t like stuff, therefore i’m going to make everyone else miserable.”
I guess, ideal situation is Ruth steps down willingly, someone else becomes RA, Mary gets her ass handed to her for this hate speech, and minimal damage is done. But I’m sure that won’t be happening.
I want to comment on what’s happening in the comment section, but I don’t know what to say that hasn’t been said better. There wasn’t anything Carla did that justified this treatment, there is *nothing* you can do that *justifies* transphobia and hate speech, and Mary is an awful individual for going there. I don’t know why it’s under debate
Okay, ditching the Brainstorm “roleplay” to say this real quick.
Why does Mary seem happy about this? How could someone raise a child to act the way Mary does? It’s not right, no matter what some god-damned book says. Not to mention, a book that’s been misinterpreted in basically every form it’s branded as. It’s not morally right on any scale. I don’t understand why people like Mary come into being. I really don’t. I don’t understand and I hate it. I hate the bigotry, the biases, the phobias, the malicious glee they seem to get from dehumanizing others. Mary’s a person. She’s (in-universe, before any of you snarkasses try to fuck with me.) a living, breathing, thinking human. How does a sentient being with such capacity for reason become twisted into something this hateful? Hitler was a person too. He had thoughts, likes, dislikes, and probably had crushes as a kid just like most of you.
They were both humans, but they became figureheads for hate. Why does it have to be like that? It’s not fair. It’s stupid, and spiteful, and horrible. Nobody deserves to become what Mary, Escobar, Trump…Nobody deserves to become what they became. And I don’t understand why people turn out like that. I don’t get it. I actually want to hug Mary a bit, and explain to her why she doesn’t have to be like this. If not at this age, when she’s younger.
Nobody deserves to become an empty shell of hatred and enmity towards others. And I pity those that do. Because it’s not fair to them or anyone else.
I take it a lot of your commentary was rhetorical, but if you really want to wrap your head around how someone could be this hateful, maybe try skimming The Sociopath Next Door.
For some people the only purpose in life is gaining power, and exerting it, over others.
Word of Willis is that DoA is independent of previous series.
If not for the comments section, I wouldn’t know about Carla’s history.
The comment section has eaten my life.
Damn you Willis.
(gonna play minecraft now)
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LOL SPOILARS
…hopefully? =C
I think the real question is, if you put Ruth in a room with Mary, Blaine, and Toedad, whose femurs would she go for first?
Depends, is Faz watching from outside the window?
Faz is just annoying. Those people are evil.
Don’t hurt Faz – who shall I ship with Dina otherwise?
anyone else.
Faz should only be shipped in a small container to a completely isolated island, where he can no longer do harm.
how about being shipped to Abu Dhabi? He’d make lots of cat friends….
Apparently he’s able to make a lot of lion friends, too.
Or shipped with Mary. She deserves him.
Faz is the boyfriend Mary needs, and the one she deserves.
Ninja Rick disagrees.
Faz should only be shipped… in several pieces. Each in their own box. That arrive separately. And one gets lost.
Certainly not Toedad!
Toes don’t have femurs.
The ones that make the best weapons?
Like that one Tony Jaa movie.
Noooo, blocked in Australia for Copyright reasons…
Also blocked in the UK also for copyright reasons
Ditto. But I guess I could watch it on a site.
Note to self: stop using YouTube for this stuff.
OR
edit relevant clips for uploading to GFYCATWho am I kidding, I don’t have the energy for that at 12:00 in the morning.Also blocked in Canada for copyright reasons.
Can we please stop defining copyrights by countries? In this day and age, it’s stupid. Either you hold a copyright or you don’t, end of story.
–Hell, a hundred years ago copyrights only applied within the country it was published in; and to anyone outside that country, the copyright didn’t exist. It also used to be for a far shorter period. Although I would probably feel differently about it if I were actually the copyright holder of anything successful, lol.
But corporations are people now and can hold copyright for life plus 80 from the author who needs those residuals to keep creating more content.
Also of note – anybody can block anything with a bogus take down notice for copyright. There are no repercussions for lying.
As somebody who has flirted with creating content, I wholly approve of the idea of replacing copyright by country with universal copyright. No just get China and North Korea to play along and we’ll be set.
hahahahahano.
And I honestly can’t say their way is worse than “Steamboat Willie (and anything made since) never ever goes out of copyright.”
No just get China and North Korea to play along and we’ll be set.
I wonder if that could happen before the U.S. switches to metric.
The reason for the “different countries” copyrights is that not every country has the same copyright laws. Something you can do with someone else’s work in China isn’t something you can legally do in the US. Thus the need for different copyrights. Different countries also have different time span.
She would take Mary’s femurs and beat both Blaine and Toedad to a pulp with them.
I’d like to think Ruth has the skills to extract the femurs from all three of them simultaneously.
I APPROVE
This plz
Mary you are seriously the worst
10:1 odds Ruth nips the possibility of it being taken higher up by caving Mary’s face in.
Mary, you give bongos a bad name.
Frankly, I think percussion instruments would like an apology for the comparison.
I spent last Sunday working at a sporting event, and a nearby idiot was pounding on a bongo drum all freakin’ day. Trust me, the comparison is apt.
I think the species of antelopes called bongo, and drunkards from the 1940s would also like an apology.
Maybe we should refer to Mary as a conga rather than a bongo.
Congas are like bongos on steroids.
…Just…FUCK you, Mary. No more, just…FUCK you.
in the words of carla’s tanktop: damn.
Yeah, her expression and shirt now totally match.
No thanks. I wouldn’t want to touch Mary with a ten foot pole. Beat her with it, yes.
Yep this is pretty much exactly what I figured would happen
same.
I wished she didn’t see that much.
Yup. Now we see if she gets to follow through. Or if, happily, someone wandering past has any dirt on her. *starts scanning the horizon for Roz*
How about the fact she just committed blackmail, which is a crime.
OH SHIT RUTH’S SCARED
…OH SHIT MARY KNOWS ABOUT BECKY
…OH SHIT RUTH KNOWS ABOUT BECKY
Bah. I’m sure it will be fine.
Hopefully she’ll be okay with Becky out of pure spite towards Mary.
However, will that be enough to make Ruth protect her if Mary threatens to go to her superiors about both that and her relationship with Billie?
Sadly, Mary has blackmail material on Ruth. 🙁
Blackmail material is hard to use after you’ve been fed your own femur. Not that I’m hoping for that or anything.
Mary could still drag herself to the manager’s office and scrawl it on his desk in her own blood. And then she dies with a smile.
Naaa, don’t see Ruth being that sloppy, she’d make sure to immobilize Mary 1st…
Unless Ruth finds some blackmail material on Mary, too – then they’re all-square as neither would be likely to reveal the other’s secret for fear of having their own revealed too.
@Yet_One_More_Idiot: So we’re playing ? Because I think Ruth’s kinda into that…
Very good point, TheGrammarLegionary. 🙂
Everyone knows, to play Mutually Assured Destruction, you have to be MAD. 😉
Former RA: The hall director would likely attempt to assist Becky, especially if she enrolls in school and would absolutely assist Carla as Mary took the spat too far. Ruth would be fired. No question. Literally, “don’t sleep with the residents” is rule no. 1.
Also, all Mary has to do in this instance is initiate cause for an investigation and whether they think Mary is a total jerk face or not the Resident Manager would likely at least investigate the claim on Ruth and Billie. At best, Billie keeps a tidy home and they don’t find anything easily/quickly and it passes. At worst they find a bunch of stuff that doesn’t belong to Ruth and alcohol bottles. Also, not sure how many camera are in the hall but that could also be used in an investigation. I’m definitely not rooting for Mary, just saying things don’t look good for Ruth either way.
All that to say, I’m sure this whole thing is going to go sideways real quick because that’s the Willis Brand guarantee!
Huh, at my school the rule is just don’t sleep with residents in your jurisdiction, or if a relationship is forming/likely to form, the CL (RA) can be moved to a new jurisdiction.
That’s kind of what I was getting at but didn’t quite articulate! Yeah, Billie really ought to swap dorms if possible!
i was an RA for 4 years and any sleeping with residents in your building was grounds for termination. but i would have been rooting for mary the whole time other then damaging carla’s skates she has been in the right. carla has been a constant shit, Disturbing mary while she was trying to study and endangering all of the people in the hall by skating. ruth is complaining about mary’s language instead of the glaring rule breaking skates and excessive noise disturbance from the jumping. mary’s actions are only affecting carla. carla’s actions are affecting the entire hall and anyone that may be living below. at this point mary should go down to the supervisor for both ruth and carla.
I think telling a transgender woman that she “really” belongs in the boys’ wing is a pretty serious issue.
So, I’m not eager for an argument, but both Carla and Mary have some things that need to be addressed. Carla was breaking rules, and that needs to be addressed. Mary; however, can’t go responding to that by slinging slurs or derogatory remarks. That’s not okay and should also be addressed.
Yeah, pretty much my take on this whole thing. Up until that came out of her mouth, I was entirely on Mary’s side.
OH SHIT, BECKY KNOWS WHAT KIDS LOVE ABOUT CINNAMON TOAST CRUNCH!
Of course. Ross was the quality control chief at the cereal factory.
more like cinnamon TOES crunch amirite
If that scene had gone differently, he would’ve been a cereal killer.
Cereal killers should get Life.
This thread took a most wondrous turn.
Cheerio!
We get our Kix from puns.
Commenter tested, Willis approved!
A grrreat one!
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Parallel Bits, beats cereal every time.
Training your cereal palate is yet another benefit of dating Dina.
Lesbians?!
[boxquote=Boxquote]Yes[/boxquote]
I still dont know how to do it :c
Gotta use the “greater than” and “less than” brackets. These ones, if they show:
When you’re writing your comment, there’s examples of the HTML codes you can use just below. 🙂
How about now?
><
Could you show me how to do it, like an example, I know to use <, but how do i do it, could you use [] to show me please. Ill just replace it when I do it.
Does this work?
I think this’ll work:
Woo! Here’s the pastebin: http://pastebin.com/y5jESVCp
Yes, just yes
Ruth? Scared?
HA!
Does she? Is Ruth going “Wh-what?” because she is surprised at what Mary know about that Ruth already knew about, or are there things there that Ruth didn’t know about at all?
Also, how has Mary missed the boozing?
Maybe her sense of smell is terrible?
The Becky thing is new to her. She knew Mary knew about her and Billie. But the Becky thing? Everyone’s been deliberately hiding Becky from her and Ruth was implied to be hermiting for most of this week. So that’s definitely new information and could put her a little off balance especially given her pride in running a tight ship.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — I think Ruth is/has been fully aware of Becky being in the dorm. Just seeing the difference in Dina over the past week (DoA-time) would be a tip-off (not to mention that someone screaming “I’m a lesbian!!” in the lobby at the top of her lungs isn’t particularly easy to overlook). It’s just that, as I implied before, that up to now dealing with Becky was not worth the time or the effort. However, now that Mary is forcing the issue….
I dunno, that moment of surprise looked genuine, but I’m fully prepared to be wrong on this.
I know it really seems like that, but I was an RA and it’s not easy to keep tabs on everybody’s life unless you’re actively snooping, which Ruth clearly doesn’t care enough to do even if it were in her job description. My job was just to report on any events I may happen to witness that might be affecting any of my resident’s wellbeing and resolve conflicts. Both of which I think I rarely if ever actually did.
The RA’s at my school mostly take a “if I don’t see it and no-one complains a lot, it didn’t happen” attitude. Otherwise there is a butt-ton of paperwork for the RA and the housing to do. No-one likes paperwork.
That said, I don’t think Mary has as much bargaining power as she thinks. A lot of what she said is stuck in “She said, she said” territory with no real proof and most likely no-one to back her up with her claims. And colleges take hate speech very seriously. So going there with the report that she has been harassing a trans student (who the school has obviously taken steps to make sure she feels safe) will make anything she says seem like an attempt to discredit. Said harassed student also filing a report and no-one in the dorm verifying that Becky is living there means Mary is just a bongo without any boing.
Agreed. Honestly, everything else that’s been happening around Ruth has nothing on the previous vandalisation of said cheerleader’s belongings. In her own words, they love her down there. Ruth is extremely good at poker facing legitimate complaints, complaints much more damning than anything Mary pulls out of her ass. To “walk away” is to admit that these things are an actual issue, so all Ruth really has to do is play it off. If she can do the same in this situation and call Mary’s bluff, then she will be fine. Especially with the hate speech.
And honestly, Mary might be seriously overestimating Ruth’s desperation to keep the job as RA in the first place. Sure, being RA had been Ruth’s sole passion in the beginning, but it seems like her priorities might have changed a bit lately. She’s had more important things on mind. Is keeping the title of RA more important than protecting the actual students, Billie and Carla included? Probably not. So better and more logical/emotional for her to stand her ground.
But the whole hardass-Ruth-the-RA storyline has always been a bit stupid, as RAs don’t really have much power, and have a lot more to lose if it comes down to a real physical confrontation.
Even if Mary didn’t have any dirt on Ruth, Ruth’s threats would still be little more than hot air….
Yes, those arguments are sound and make good points, But you seem to be overlooking a crucial fact. You used logic, everybody knows logic and comics/TV don’t mix.
Logic and people in general don’t mix. It’s not just limited to fiction.
Yeah, but we all make snap judgements based on complex reasoning. I guess I’m just hoping Ruth will make the right one, and I’m not sure her personality can allow her to walk away anyhow.
She’s trans? This is either something I’ve grossly overlooked or some continuity wink from all those other works I’ve never read, right? Man…
In the original Walkyverse Carla was “UltraCar”, a sentient hatchback that decided to move ‘his’ consciousness into a female robot body. I didn’t process it as a trans parallel at the time but I am also somewhat oblivious, and we were dealing with, yanno, a car…
See my comment downthread for evidence: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/leverage-2/#comment-955095
There’s been several indirect hints dropped during this series, too.
1: Carla thinking a penis drawn on her whiteboard was a ‘hate crime’–until she saw that the entire hallway had been hit by the vandal.
2: In her conversation with Sal about joining the roller derby team, Sal says that her extra height would give her an advantage. Carla replies, “There’s a reason for that,” to which Sal responds that it wouldn’t make any difference to them.
There was one other I can’t think of right now, but those are the ones that stick out in my memory.
I fear when it comes out that Billie knew. Becky is in Billies room.
The comic recently went out of its way to spotlight Becky hiding (being hidden) from Ruth and that Dina looked genuinely scared to see her, so I’m fairly sure we’re meant to infer that she still doesn’t know. Plus there’s drama potential when she finds out that Billie not only knew but is currently letting Becky stay in her room, and hasn’t told Ruth about it.
Mary really does have solid blackmail material and is clearly prepared to use it – I’m waiting to see whether Ruth does a Huck Finn in defence of Carla & Becky (“fuck it, I’ll do the right thing and damn the consequences”, or in Finn’s words, “All right then, I’ll go to Hell”).
“Never show your hand unless you hold all the cards.” Mary doesn’t hold all the cards, but she does have a full house to bluff with. While she is prepared to escalate, escalation could go either way in this case, considering recent events. I’m sure housing knows of Ruth’s underlying issues, which grants her some leeway as long as she continues to keep the peace in her domain.
The campus isn’t actually dry. or she’s abusing prescription meds.
the receptionnist specially said that it was a dry campus on day 1.
Mary may not have mentioned it, but she still might know about the booze. Just that there were so many other things she was complaining about that she already had more than enough to cause Ruth some major problems.
She didn’t before.
She knows now.
I’m no mind reader, but it looks to me like Ruth is thinking “Wow, just, you’re a perfectly awful human being, how do you even justify your own existence to yourself, or is that it, you can’t, you actually hate yourself so much you want to end it all, this is some suicide attempt, you want me to smash your brains in with your own femurs, damnit, my mouth didn’t work that whole time”.
What Mary told her is not quite accurate, so she couldn’t know all of it.
I don’t think Ruth is scared. I think she is surprised. How many people have ever gotten in her face like this, and lived to talk about it?
Mary is in deep shit, she just hasn’t discovered that fact yet.
Ruth’s not scared, just surprised. Though, really she shouldn’t be.
Why do I get visions of this scene running through Ruth’s mind right about now?
“She knows how to play!”
Don’t worry, Willis has said that no one’s going to die in DOA.
…
Wait, why are you all glaring at me like that?
That is kind of sad when you think about it here. Like, Mary WON’T die. And that sucks.
Okay Willis fine I hate Mary now
Just what Willis wanted all along.
Only now?
You didn’t hate the malicious, homophobic, transphobic, vindictive asshole already?
Dislike; yes. Downrigh hate; no.
But I’m quickly getting there.
Better late than never I suppose. xD
Report to Roz so she can bongo you out for being late.
Damn man, that Mary is something. $5 Ruth doesn’t back off!
if she doesn’t becky might end up living with that one teacher……. I wouldn’t be opposed that that specific outcome if it comes to blows so to speak.
I thought they’d live as lovers at first. I hope Leslie has more morals then that.
Haha XD
That’s Jason’s department!
Nice!! I forgot Becky’s sleeping space is on the line. Oh yeah… She totally called her a pervert too. I hope Ruth doesn’t let Mary get away with these hate speech >:O
Go find the media who did the story on Becky, Mary’s hate related threats will make an excellent follow up.
^This. Pretend to back down and then DOUBLE DOWN. And get Carla in on it while you’re at it, under the pretense of telling her not to bug Mary again.
This. So much.
Indeed, you might say there’s something about Mary…
She’s gone full Ratigan!
Excellent reference! Where’s Toby when you need him?!
Even meaner?
You mean it?
Worse than the heathens and witches you drowned?
You’re the best of the worst around!
Oh Mary! Oh Mary!
You think you’re never wrongo!
To Mary! To Mary!
To Mary the World’s Greatest Bongo!
aaahahaha this is great, I’m doing a search for bongo just to see and now you’re USING it, amazing!!!
Despite all the horrible things Ratigan does in that movie I still would rather spend time around him than Mary.
I like to think Ratigan wouldn’t care if one of his minions were trans or into mice of the same gender, as long as they did his bidding and avoided the ‘R’ word.
Ratigan himself was trans-species.
Who had folks who misidentified him eaten alive.
I support this approach for Mary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGi3s8P3FA
Mary has no chill!
The die is cast….
W-woah. She’s… an actually competent villain? That’s rather more than I expected… ._.
She actually be the most competent villain so far (minus Mike)
She’s actually some what subtle, unlike Blaine and Ross who are just loud violent idiots
I’m really not used to the idea of “villains” without aspirations (as far as we can see so far) to take over
the tri-state areathe worldthe universeCleveland.Is it ever JUST Cheeto dust?
If the store sells it, then yes it is. If only the Just Store wasn’t fictional, because I could go for some “Just Oreo Filling.”
Blaine was sutble enough to lure Danny off campus as leverage.
I actually kind of like Danny and I’ll be the first to say that there are Mack trucks subtle enough to lure him off campus.
…you make a fair point.
“whoa that one looks like Optimus Prime. I should take a picture to show Joe…”
In this continuity it would be to show Ethan
and have an excuse for himself to hang out with himNo, no she isn’t. She’s arrogant enough to assume there’s no way any of this could go wrong for her. She’s an idiot who gives proper villainy a bad name.
So she is the false front for the real evil mastermind?
Carla is legitimately living in the female dorms. Unless someone was particularly clueless, this leaves me thinking that all Ruth needs to do is explain just what Mary said to Carla to make anything Mary says come across as bigoted bullshit.
It might be bigoted, but they’d still have to kick Becky to the curb (against dorm rules) and would probably kick Ruth out of the RA position and cost her any pay or room comp she’s getting (abuse of authority; authority figures don’t get to have relationships with students). The latter would also likely up Ruth and Billie’s drinking, which would inevitably lead to them getting caught, and facing the repercussions of being caught drinking on a dry campus.
Ruth might lose her job, but I suspect Becky would almost instantaneously acquire a new place to stay from a very friendly and helpful teacher. And if this event leaked out to the media, so soon after the incident with toedad, it would be impossible for the media to not link Mary’s vile behavior to the same kind of extremism that just caused a freaking armed kidnapping.
It’s entirely possible that the backlash from that will cause the university to drop any complaints at all against ruth, just to avoid being caught up in it.
You give university administrations way too much credit, friend. They want to avoid hassles and they want to avoid lawsuits.
1: Becky is gone immediately – having someone staying in the dorms without all the proper paperwork is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
2: Ruth is dismissed from her RA position for violating dry campus rules and for fucking one of the students she is directly responsible for. Depending on university policy, she could be banned from the dorms or even expelled.
3: Billie ends up in similar hot water re: dry campus.
4: Carla prrrrobably comes out okay unless the DOA version of Bart O’Ryan decides to scream about her on his TV show or whatever he’s up to, at which point the university has to put up or shut up on its policy w/r/t trans students in student housing.
It’s far, far more likely that Mary wins, given how conflict-averse university administrators are these days.
SOURCE: i have worked at multiple universities – they will let shit slide until their hand is forced and then they go ballistic on everyone.
Actually, the only person I’m giving credit to is Leslie, who will doubtless extend her home to Becky immediately. I’m assuming the University will take the most media friendly path possible, which isn’t backing the fundamentalist spewing hate speech. Ruth might lose her position, Becky will be quietly encouraged to leave, but in the wake of the toedad incident the university isn’t going to want to present any hint that they might be punishing people for being gay. It doesn’t matter what’s actually going on with Ruth, there are too many hotbuttons in play.
Also, just once I want one of my predictions to not be soul crushing.
@Julez: Becky arrived on campus the Thursday of the previous week. This is Friday of the current week – her 9th day on campus.
But how long can a non-student legitimately stay with a friend in the dorms? Over a weekend, right? At least? But not much longer. And Becky hasn’t been here that long.
So, Becky stayed with her friend Joyce for a few days, then was going to leave, but decided to visit with her friend Sal a little while first, instead.
I don’t see the problem. 😉 So long as they can claim it with a straight face and stick to it.
At this point, I believe Becky has been there for at least a week and a half, maybe a bit more.
Three days in the dorm if a weekend, overnight during the week, period, on our campus – didn’t matter what room you were staying in. It kept couch surfers from befriending a whole floor and bouncing between rooms for extended stays.
When I was in college we had friends stay as long as 2 weeks on our futon or in our extra bed. They weren’t homeless or anything. Just had the time to stay with us that long and hang out with all their other friends on campus as well. Our R.A. knew about it and everything.
Yup, this. Sadly.
hoop: Re: #4, I think it’s more cut-and-dried than that. Carla has already been identified (by Joyce) as having ‘a room of her own for some reason’. Given the obvious housing policy of having people have roommates, and the fact that Ruth obviously was aware of Carla’s trans status (based on her reaction), it’s pretty clear the school already is on the right side of that issue. Mary’s looking at expulsion if this blows up, regardless of what consequences hit the others, and Carla’s in the clear.
Maybe I haven’t spent enough time in a dorm, but I’m really not seeing what part of this couldn’t be solved better by Carla herself going to whoever’s responsible and bypassing Mary’s ridiculous pseudo-blackmail. What, if anything, would be done about it is practically speaking up to the rules and the personal morals of the person in charge, anyway; as far as I know we have no idea whether this Resident Manager is the sort of person to take “resident is bigoted asshole” as a serious complained.
(And honestly, I doubt this will get Mary too far. One of the very few benefits of being self-destructive is that it’s kinda hard to threaten you into not doing the right thing, usually.)
From personal experience, the “nothing to live for” element might be an unreliable indicator for what a person is and isn’t willing to risk. Especially since Ruth is slowly finding something to care about.
Aside from the fact that Carla doesn’t seem the type to go to an authority figure, she would 100% have the RD on her side if she took off the skates, put on regular shoes, took that skates to the RD, and told the RD “Mary destroyed my personal property and made transphobic hate comments toward me.” Mary has no proof that Carla was skating in the halls and Carla has the destroyed skates as evidence.
Yeah, but that first factor will likely trump. Carla does not have any truck with authority figures (probably having been burned by her fair share of them growing up given her background). She’s really not the type to go running to them and expecting them to solve things in any way that’s positive for her.
Sadly if Ruth backs off, a much more likely situation is Carla just eats the transphobia, commits even more strongly to avoiding people, and tries to replace her skates… again.
It’s what I would do. Telling admins and drawing attention could just get you targeted even worse. Best sometimes to keep your head down and count your good fortune to be in the girls’ dorm at all.
She has to finish rebooting first. marybigotry.exe caused the jerkass service to overflow into the system heap.
I wondered about that. But if Ruth is her only witness, it’s still a problem.
There is one major thing Mary has forgotten; Ruth does not like to lose, and may either take Mary down with her or bluff about doing that.
Well, about what was expected really. I hope Ruth still has some edge over her.
Yeah, I also saw it coming. Didn’t say anything on yesterday’s comic because ____.
Can you complete the above statement? (Yes.)
Because comments were disabled?
See parentheses above.
Hopefully that edge will be a knife.
Wow I didn’t think ruth would have a look like that from one of the students. I had no strong opinion of mary before but now……. yeah not a fan.
Femurs. I want to see femurs, out of body, next strip. I demand.
….aaaaaaaand the “Mary knows about Ruth/Billie” pays off in the worst way.
Also an industrial woodchip.
Hey, Rodimiss – check out Ana Chronistic’s post up top if you haven’t already~
I saw that after I made my comment and I was extremely pleased!
What? No. Think of the poor janitor who’d need to clean the blood out of the hall carpet! Rather, how about she says “So you want the biggest deviant in the dorm kicked out right now?” and then defenestrate her.
So, in that other universe we know Blaine slept around and fathered multiple illegitimate children.
You don’t suppose? The psychotic grin and assholeish behavior are pretty similar.
Does poor Amber really need more reasons to feel tormented?
“Hey, I now realize I have a crush on Faz”.
She’s a superhero. The more villains with personal connections to her we have, the better the drama.
Well, Amber is kind of an experiment in “let’s pile all the possible issues on one person”…
… Naaaaaah, too obvious.
Most likely.
Obviously, Mary will crush on Amber beforehand.
Plays a good chess game, this Mary does
Mary is still likely to get expelled, no? Even if getting Ruth in trouble does happen.
For what, being a bigot? The max you can prove is that she said something very mean while in an argument with someone who was deliberately antagonizing her and following her around to harass her.
Mary’s a terrible and spiteful person, and it’s human nature to wish ill fortune on her for it, but she hasn’t done anything to earn expulsion in a formal, disciplinary sense. Ironically, she’s the person in the scene who has broken the fewest university rules.
Hate speech is a possibility- maybe more likely whee I am than Indiana- but blackmail is still a felony.
she did destroy/damage another students property. not likely to be suspended over but something.
Ruth does not have clean hands, she’s abused her authority as a representative of the university, and believed she could get away with it because she intimidates the other students, while ignoring her real duties. Becky is trespassing on the school property, taking advantage of facilities that she isn’t paying for, which Ruth either didn’t know about or was willing to allow to continue. The fact that Mary is unpleasant doesn’t clean the slate of the bad things Ruth and the others have been getting away with, and just because you like them doesn’t make what they’ve done acceptable.
CptNerd Esq., Advocatum Diabolus
I’m afraid, esteemed colleague, that you seem to be mixing up “things that are against the rules” and “bad things.”
We do not content that there is nothing wrong with granting accommodations to Becky, an abuse victim. Granted, she should be trying to find a more permanent place to live, and does not appear to be doing so. However, staying with friends for a little when one has nowhere else to go is is not wrong, and most schools allow for guests. (It is possible that she is scamming the cafeteria, but that’s not something that’s in Ruth’s purview. For all she knows, Becky’s friends are paying for her meals.)
It is indeed possible that Ruth could be abusing her authority with Billie, we argue that she has not done so. Ruth terminated her relationship with Billie, and Billie chose of her own free will to return.
Ruth has her problems. We cannot deny this. But her problems are not those that your client has brought forth. They may be against the school’s rules, but we answer to a higher authority.
trlkly, Argumentum Angelus 😛
hah, I wish. I literally go to one of the most trans-friendly schools in the country and when someone tried to start a “trans critical” group on campus they didn’t do shit about it.
Sadly, this. Hate speech may be against the rules and the law of the city, but I’ve not seen a school or city or state yet actually enforce said rules to the point where those who go against it actually worry about social or legal consequences.
If Carla’s parents made a fuss, it could have reverberations or if there was a student protest, but otherwise, Carla is just chalking it up to her regular diet of bullshit and transphobia.
Ruth just kill her. Carla won’t see anything
Hell, Carla will have a tarp and a shovel over here in five minutes if you ask.
Hell, the whole floor would pitch in.
A fresh-dug grave might attract unwanted attention, as might the chemicals to render the remains unrecognizable.
Just find a wood chipper and a whale shark. Hannelore’s mom had the right idea, I feel.
“What grave? We just decided to plant a tomato garden as a community-building exercise.”
“Not much is growing yet because we salted the earth here. For reasons.”
Not with those gunked up wheels, she won’t.
No jury on earth would convict her.
I’m calmly waiting for Ruth to lose her shit.
Yeah I knew this would happen. 🙁
No way this person I don’t want to use that specific word to refer to is going to get what she deserves. Not so soon.
But when she does…
F5 F5 F5….
she’s not exactly wrong but
wuddabongo
I’ve been waiting for that shoe to drop.
I bet Sal and friends won’t be so easily blackmailed though.
Yeah, Mary hasn’t thought this through. She’s one person, and if a good chunk of her floor decide to screw her, well, it’s her word against 8 people’s about what actually happened. Hell, all it’d take is Roz planting something in her room, Ruth “finding” it, and then all her claims about Ruth being a bad RA come across as sour grapes.
You mean like all of Billies and Ruths empty bottles suddenly ending up under Marys bed?
I hope mary dies in a fire. no joke.
Don’t wish that on fire. The fire didn’t do anything wrong. 🙁
Fire cleanses indiscriminately.
And it is painful
Mary, Mary….why you bugging?
Good name. Great reference.
Stick to your guns, Ruth! You gotta!
Maybe after taking a look at Carla’s crestfallen expression, there.
Don’t back down!
Mary you are going to make so many enemies. You should have gone to Anderson.
I think the results would have been the same.
She would’ve made it so Becky left even earlier (and many things would have been much better, except Joyce and Dina probaby not being ready for her, so the things would have started out much worse… I wanna read that fic now shit)
I think Liberty University would be an even better fit for Mary.
Y’know that feeling you get when someone says something ostencibly true, but is still totally wrong about every part of it?
That’s what a villain does.
That’s what a *well-written villain does. ;3
People who want to be on the top tend to have lots of enemies and not care at all. “Let them hate me, so long as they fear me” is their motto.
Normally, in this situation, my go-to response is to threaten to rip the person’s balls off and feed them to him… But Mary is female. She has no balls to rip off. Suggestions?
What floor are they on again?
rip off he breasts?
Femurs, clearly.
To be precise, in humans, usually the gonads take the form of either testicles, or ovaries. If you can’t threaten to remove the testicles, threatening to forcefully remove the ovaries is roughly an equivalent threat.
On a moral note, I want to say that physical threats are wrong, but…. this is Mary we are talking about…. I wouldn’t mourn her if physical violence was enacted against her.
Wood chipper. I’ve been watching fargo.
In the name of cartoonishly violent escalation: use her ovaries as analogous.
Hey, if it’s the escalation game you want, why not just go back in time (obviously using a conveniently placed, genius-level briefcase) and make her trans at birth?
…
I’ve been told I’m too good at the escalation game.
Clearly the appropriate punishment would be to surgically attach balls.
I expect this drawing on my desk by sundown.
Best response.
Bravo.
High-five!
My go-to threat is “I will gut you like a trout.”
defenestration.
“You keep using that word…..”
Congratulations; it means exactly what you think it means.
The thought that always gets me is that it must have happened frequently enough somewhere for this to become a literary term.
Prague, 1618. It started a war.
Violence would just be more ammunition for Mary to use against Ruth.
Amazi-girl could probably use an outlet. Is she far gone enough to pummel Mary?
…is she lawbound enough for Mary to turn her against the redheads? …Shit.
‘It certainly was odd that the note Mary left to say she was leaving forever was in someone else’s handwriting and also covered in blood.”
I’m kind of wanting a piano to fall on Mary’s head right now. Should I feel bad about that?
Depends. Is it a good quality piano?
I’d feel bad for the piano.
Yes. What did the poor piano ever do to deserve that?
It must have struck the wrong chord.
Mmm. Diplomacy is key.
Nah, not a piano. The piano will take the brunt of the force of impact and break. Use an anvil. Solid steel.
You’ve never had to move a piano, have you?
Willis. I am laying down a demand. Mary needs to DIE. Preferably in a fire of some sort.
I KNEW she was going to do this, but it does not make it any less loathsome. Please.
The happy corner of my mind is picturing Billie walking up behind them in her lingerie (which is the real reason for Ruth’s expression in that last panel) and proceeds to bap Mary over the head with the strapon she bought Ruth.
“Oh I welcome the defiling~”
I’ve been binge-reading Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns because of this plot twist. Damn You Willis.
b
bo
bongo bongo bongo bongo bong–
Mary knows less about Ruth than she thinks she does. She doesn’t know how bad Ruth’s current state is, or that Ruth herself probably can’t predict what she’s going to do.
Never corner the wild animal. The lack of escape fills it with DETERMINATION.
No, Ruth, don’t give in to the hatemonger!
This is certainly blowing up nicely.
Thing is, Mary is right… Ruth was a terrible RA, but not for any of the reasons given.
On an unrelated note, does anyone know why yesterday’s comic had comments closed?
The comments were closed for the same reasons tonight’s will likely get closed, tbh.
Er, something tells me that after this not even the bigots will want to side with Mary.
(Wishful thinking. :p)
I have a hard time processing why they’d want to read this comic in the first place, unless they just want something to complain about.
They’re always looking for something to complain about.
I so so wish that was true. But sadly, there was a pretty bad flock of them last night. The worst of them were luckily banned, but still.
Because transphobic bigots would have shown up and made the comments a mess and Willis is too tired to deal with that.
wait…… oh wow yesterdays comic makes so much more sense now. I am kind of oblivious or maybe I forgot. It never clicked that she might be transgender. I just assumed it was something like “if you are going to act like a boy stay with them” and couldn’t figure out why it was such an extreme reaction.
For those of us that read Shortpacked as well, the hints were there, but for people specifically reading DoA it makes sense that you wouldn’t have known. I think I saw it confirmed somewhere prior to Carla actually having any DoA lines.
Well in my case the friends i have who happen to be transgender I never realized until I was told point blank about it. I’m pretty oblivious about a lot of stuff. *shrug* worse things out there than not realizing stuff like that though.
it was explicited but outside the comic (tumblr or twitter)
the hints we got in comic were minly that she had “a solo room for some reason”, and that thing about the Derby team.
And that she considered the dick on her whiteboard to be a hate crime until she found out everyone’s whiteboards had been dickified.
I think she also made a comment about how “there’s a reason” for her height.
Well that never clicked as a reason why it could be a hate crime. I just kind of assumed she was over reacting thinking she was targeted specifically instead of everyone being hit.
Because Willis has two baby boys to take care of and doesn’t have the time, will, or energy to sift through transphobic commentary and get rid of it before someone gets hurt.
He still had to, exept in the prior day’s comment where we all huddled up ;
along with spills over tumblr asks and twitter.
Exactly. He doesn’t need any more babies to clean up after.
Preemptive troll control.
Band name! Dibs!
I’d listen to Preemptive Troll Control.
I’m imagining heavy synths.
Because El Supremo realised that the comments for that strip were going to attract every transphobic webcomic reader in a thousand leagues.
It’s like chumming the water for sharks.
Well, Mary only gave three reasons there for Ruth being a terrible RA.
1. That Ruth is having lesbian sex.
2. That Ruth is having sex with one of her charges.
3. That Ruth is allowing (or is ignorant of) a non-student to live on school property.
I doubt the Resident Manager will really care about that first one, but the second two are kind of in Terrible RA territory.
Also just adding this in so that no one misunderstands. Mary is being terrible here, but her Terrible RA argument holds water. Of course, allowing a resident to spew transphobic statements at another resident would also be pretty bad form for an RA, so Ruth ain’t gonna let this stand.
uh, why is 1) any matter here ? ^^;
It’s not, but it’s one of Mary’s reasons. That’s why I said only the second two are things a Resident Manager would care about. Just because it’s one of the reasons Mary gave doesn’t mean it’s valid.
Really, only the alleged sex with Billie would be a problem for Ruth, but what proof does Mary actually have of that? It would be a case of a bigot’s word against the RA. As far as Becky goes, I think Ruth legitimately thought Becky was Joyce’s friend from a different floor, which is a reasonable assumption.
I… I really hate Mary. Like, a lot. Like, on the same level of “please jump in front of a bus” hate that I harbor for Toedad and Blaine. Maybe even more; those guys are in the hospital and out of the story right now, we’re stuck with Mary.
I… I don’t know how to react to this. I’m just… furious.
as a character she is interesting in some ways but as a “person” not someone I would want to spend time with……. ever.
I was confused by this because y’all have the same icon
Well, she may get to the hospital in a few pages, too.
That’s the thing. I hate both Blaine and Ross, but they were impulse villains. One big burst of being a dick, then out of the picture after taking it too far and getting themselves hospitalized or arrested (or both). They did a lot of damage in a short time (and Blaine even more through years of off-screen abuse), but their time in comic was brief and terrible before being removed for a long time.
But Mary has been sitting on this for weeks, just waiting for the right moment. She lives a few seconds away from the people she’s hurting, and isn’t likely to take things to the point where she’s thrown in jail or carted off to the hospital for the next several years. (Blackmail beats punches and guns in that regard)
So she definitely warrants more hate than those two. Before, I just thought she was a bit of an asshole. After the last two strips, it’s clear that she’s a BIG problem. One that I don’t see being easily dealt with. The problem that leaves the next day is far less threatening than the one that will be standing over your shoulder for the next several weeks/months.
I’m still hoping that this leads to Ruth losing her job(because she’s an asshole/bully/complete monster) but Mary gets thrown out along the way for creating a hostile environment for her fellow residents. Carla gets promoted to floor manager because she never actually has gotten caught causing trouble, and while I’m wishing, I get a pony.
hey can I get a pony too!
I like this notion. Here’s hoping!
“complete monster” are strong words. Especially when the justification you give for Mary getting thrown out is “creating a hostile environment for her fellow students” – I’d think that all the lording her moral superiority over people, transphobia, and homophobia are signs that Mary’s quite vile too. If Ruth is, categorically, a bully, what does that make Mary? Not a bully, when she calls a trans student a boy and verbally harasses Ruth for being a gynophile?
Ruth isn’t a monster. Just a really, REALLY shitty RA.
Ruth physically and emotionally abused someone she had power over until that person entered into a relationship with her. I mean, Mary’s horrible, but Ruth needed to be fired long ago.
Mary just dropped the BOMB! I know she isn’t liked, but damn, what a beatdown she just gave. This pleases me.
The thing about dropping bombs is that most countries have silos and fleets of their own.
I don’t think Mary is remotely prepared for any effective retaliation.
The only winning move is not to play. Unfortunately, Mary decided to play. And now everything’s going to blow up.
Empty threat. The only faculty are Leslie, computers teacher, the dean, and maybe a janitor. Also she probably won’t live that long anyway.
In my head, the janitor is Ninja Rick.
Is this canon. Because if it isn’t it should be.
Ninja Rick does not exist in DoA because he was based off a real person.
No, and it won’t be for the reason timemonkey gave. But that also means that Ninja Rick won’t appear in any capacity that contradicts my headcanon, and I have a ready explanation for the fact that he never appears as janitor.
We don’t see him because he’s a ninja.
Headcanon accepted. Headcanon approved.
In mine, he’s the student counselor/therapist that they never visit.
Just sitting there all alone in his office, obliviously proud that his mere presence makes the students so psychologically healthy that they never even need to see him.
They never see him because they never see him.
The one whose card Roz gave to Joyce?
Yep! He doesn’t actually run a coven, though.
There’s the Math professor that teaches the Calc class, but he’s like an inch tall.
I’d be more inclined to believe he exists if I could remember his face or if he even had one.
Professor Rees does in fact have a face.
And, I believe, we once saw the professor who teaches Danny and Amber’s programming class? He’s the alt-universe version of that guy from Roomies and It’s Walky! who got drafted into SEMME because he broke into their system.
Ruth knew that Mary knew about her and Billie so she had to have expected that one to come up sometime. I don’t even know if Ruth herself knows about Becky living in Billie’s room so I suspect that is what threw Ruth off her game.
Come on, Ruth, just bite her nose off. You know you want to.
Seriously though, that escalated quickly, from one rude act to another, getting worse and worse each time.
By this stage, I am wondering why Mary hasn’t just requested to trade with someone in another dorm.
Because that means the “perverts” win. Mary has to be right at all costs. She’s a bully who thinks herself a paladin.
Does that mean at some point Mary will be fatally wounded, and some ghost will tell her that redemption isn’t for everyone?
At least she will be able to see Windstriker… (Realizes that Mary doesn’t have an equivalent to Windstriker). She has less friends than Miko. That’s impressive.
Huh. I didn’t know that was even possible.
Miko at least had one genuinely wrong enemy.
Speaking of which, can we please hand over Mary to Xkyon?
Wait, but who is an adequate authority figure for her to kill beforehands?
Leslie seems roughly equivalent to Lord Shojo. They’re both wise, smart-alecky mentor types older than the main cast who it’d be a real shame to lose.
This. Her whole raison d’etre is that Mary is better than everyone else. That Mary will show herself to win. That Mary will triumph and outshine the deviants and the sinners and prove herself over all.
That Mary will personally win and gloat over that win. It’s why she hold on to information until she can play it to her advantage. It’s why she escalates so intensely when she doesn’t get her way (the transphobia and the glueing of the skates with Carla, the calling Ruth the c-word when she wouldn’t drop everything to solve a non-emergency problem).
I had forgotten all about the whiteboard bonering. And Mary’s aborted language. Thatbdoes add a fresh complexion to things.
She’s going to become a fallen paladin and STILL think she’s in the right, like that one lady in Order of the Stick.
like Toedad.
I see her more as the “You wronged me (the noise)”, so I’ll make you regret having ever crossed me”
The threat itself is bad enough. It’s the fucking language she’s using that makes me see red. Defiling, perverted…it’s dehumanizing and disgusting and Mary is just the fucking worst.
Yup, it’s that proud deliberate ignorance and bigotry that really hammers home that she doesn’t actually view other people as people. They’re just set pieces for Mary to prove how good she is against.
Don’t forget the generous dose of theology she justifies it with!
THIS. EXACTLY this. That anyone can claim she’s in the right is terrifying to me.
An instance where I somewhat wish Willis would revoke his truck rule.
Mary is terrible.
Next in Dumbing of Roomies: Ruth runs over Mary with a truck.
I was thinking something along the lines of a freak automotive accident flipping a truck to punch a bumper right through the wall and Mary’s occupied bed without harming anyone else or their possessions, but I think more mundane comeuppance will be more satisfying if it comes.
Well, here’s where it gets interesting, because how things proceed from here comes entirely down to how self-destructive Ruth is feeling.
Because if she’s in full “fuck it, let me burn and get it over with” mode, then she’ll shut this shit down in a nanosecond though at utterly immense personal cost ending in at minimum, losing her job and possibly being suspended from the school (at maximum, she could face legal consequences for sleeping with one of her charges or the underaged drinking).
But if not, oof, that might actually end worse for her in the long run, because it basically means that Mary will now own her ass and that’s going to come with a humiliating regimen of being her personal servant until eventually she hits the “fuck it, let me burn” mode later.
The thought comes to mind that Mary may not have the leverage she assumes she does. She knows things that are a threat to Ruth, but being an RA Ruth may know things that are a threat to Mary.
Yeah, at the end of the day, what does Mary really have? That Becky’s staying here (bad for Becky) and an accusation of gross misconduct on the part of Ruth (which will trigger an investigation). But she’s also Mary and everyone, even Joyce dislikes her. I’m not sure anyone would be willing to back her up during the investigation and could definitely point to her obsession with queer individuals as backed up by this instance of transphobia.
If she really did pull the trigger, there’s a fair chance that Ruth could get away with her various transgressions, though Billie would have to very quickly move back to her room.
That being said? That would be a ginormous risk and if wrong, the consequences for both Ruth and Billie would be severe. So yeah, it’s a shitty situation all around.
Also, if Billie moved back to her room, and higher-ups were investigating, that would mean Becky loses her home again.
As far as I remember Mary only knows that Billie was in Ruth’s room one morning/afternoon. She didn’t see what happened in the room. For all she actually knows that was an instance of a resident going to talk to her R.A. about something that was bothering her and the R.A. giving her the time of day to listen. Mary is intuitive enough to know that isn’t the case, but can she PROVE anything more?
Ooh, that’s a point. Why would anybody take Mary’s word over Ruth’s? For one, Ruth’s the authority here, and second, Mary doesn’t really have any friends on the floor. I can’t see anyone vouching for her.
I feel bad about relying on an abuse of power to deal with Mary, but I’m not going to be worried too much about her feelings.
The thing about people like Mary is that they usually have influential friends or relatives that enable them to keep pulling this shit on others.
I strongly suspect that is the case here. We’ll see sooner or later.
As awful as Ruth can be, there’s enough of a decent human being in her that i really hope that she can pull out of that spiral somehow.
mary on the other hand? I really REALLY hope something DESTROYS her over this. The more painful and drawn out it is, the better, because she has just shown what a monster she really is.
I think she’s better off taking Mary to the R.M. for hate speech, and facing the music for the charges against her. The only thing I can see holding her back is that Billie would be hurt as well. However, given their ‘suicide pact’, Billie’s already agreed to go down with the ship, essentially (though, I suppose it would be rude to assume that includes exposing their relationship in order to deal with a misbehaving resident).
Ruth could face legal consequences for sleeping with Billie?
(I’m asking because I genuinely don’t know what the charge is, and I’m curious. This post is overall excellent.)
Sexual Harassment at the least, potentially rape if they want to push it further. It’s due to her station of power over Billie having a potential effect on Billie’s ability to freely consent without potential personal consequences. It’s part of the rules that prohibit staff in general from sleeping with students due to the power imbalance (and why Jason and Penny’s little stunts are hella illegal).
I didn’t know they could do that if Billie refuses to press charges (or whatever is the campus equivalent.)
Even if Billie doesn’t press charges it wouldn’t stop Ruth from getting super fired.
They definitely could. The rape one probably wouldn’t happen. And maybe the Sexual Harassment wouldn’t either, but what Meghan said is true, she’d be super fired and possibly banned from on-campus housing, meaning she could be needing to suddenly come up with a lot of money very quickly.
Unless joe is a student of Penny’s her actions are not even against the rules at all. Questionable? Sure, but that’s it.
Jason’s actions are against the rules, but considering that Sal was the initiator there would be no legal consequences. He would lose his post, however. Once the semester is over, however, he and Sal can do whatever they want as far as IU is concerned (and yes, I was told as much when I went through TA orientation there).
Ruth, like Jason, could lose her job, but unless Billie pressed any charges there would be no legal issues.
Not those specific rules, yes, but there are usually rules in place regarding any staff member, teacher, or TA having sexual relationships with students as a general safeguard against this kind of stuff, even if they don’t have direct charge over that student. Penny, if caught, would definitely lose her position at the least.
Jason not being the instigator would not matter given his position as being directly responsible for Sal’s education and grades. He would be in even bigger trouble. Ruth, ditto, but less so because expectations for students of similar ages isn’t as high as for those who are being trained as teachers (and TAs tend to be PhD students for whom this is treated as training for being labeled ready to teach anywhere). Though Ruth would definitely be out on her ass and probably lose her housing in the process.
Now, given overall school responses to things like sexual assault or sexual harassment, the school would probably try to bury the situation at first until there were multiple complaints or media attention was called, but legally, they’d all be pretty fucked if caught.
Again, I went through this orientation at IU, the school in this webcomic. The rules are a little ambiguous regarding relationships between staff and students, especially for staff who are also students like Penny, Jason, and Ruth. Remember, we are talking about adults here, so unless that student is in some way under that staff member they are not going to act on it. They may frown like hell at it and that may affect them down the line, but they will not fire them over it.
Let me put it to you this way. I, for a brief period of time, was in an open relationship with a student at the school that I was a faculty member for. This is because my wife, who I had been married to for 12 years at the time, started taking classes at the school. She was not allowed to actually enroll in any of my classes, but outside of that there were no issues with the fact that I was involved with a student because at no point in time could that relationship have had any affect, good or bad, on her academic advancement.
So I repeat, unless Joe is a student in Penny’s class (a distinct possibility since it seems to be an entry level math course that all COAS students have to take), she is in the clear.
Jason would get canned and deported over his relationship with Sal.
Ruth would get fired as RA, have to move into a different room (which she has to now pay for), and a new RA would get assigned to the floor (hire Carla!).
Ah. Thank you for letting me know as I don’t have any experience with the enforcement of things like this.
Useful to know
Ah, makes sense. I was mostly wondering if there was some law specifically banning relationships with that kind of power imbalance that would apply here automatically (like how the drinking age of 21 automatically criminalises Ruth’s alcohol use), but that is consistent with everything I know.
Billie would probably refuse to press charges though, which would effectively change the consequences from a criminal offense to an administrative one (RA/student relationships being against the rules/code of conduct resulting in Ruth losing her job and probably housing, though the latter could also be a consequence of the alcohol use).
Does what Ruth and Billie are doing break the law? No.
At first I was going to say it depends on whether Billie is 18 or not. Because there is a law in Indiana called “Child Seduction,” which forbids anyone employed by a school from having sex with anyone under them who is over 16 but under 18.
However, the real law has a specific exception: The person must be at least four years older and not a student of the school in question. (Indiana Code – Section 35-42-4-7(b)(3)(D))
So there is no way this can be illegal. Though, of course, that has no bearing on what the school can do.
And of course, Ruth is in fact guilty of assault and intimidation. But so is Mary.
‘fuck it let me burn” is probably the best option here…you can’t tolerate this BS and keep authority.
Fraternizations? Defiling the cheerleader? Vagrants?
Mary DOES realize it’s the new millennia, right?
More importantly – who talks like that?
She’s really a 90 year old who can’t physically age.
She certainly has the same disposition as a b8tter, 90 year old crank.
She does study in the dark… like a vampire. And not get dressed until after 3 PM… like a vampire.
I mean, I’m not saying that she’s a vampire, but she’s totally a vampire.
Hopefully she doesn’t sparkle.
Hopefully she turns to dust in the sun… somebody toss some garlic. Find Joyce, she probably has a crucifix, right? Unless she’s a different sect?
I think it says in the about section that since Joyce comes from a fundie Protestant background she doesn’t have one since that is (and I can personally vouch for this) a very Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) practice.
No, Joyce isn’t Catholic–Catholics are the ones that have crucifixes. Joyce is some type of fundamentalist Protestant.
Protestants still tend to have crosses. What we don’t tend to have are crosses with Jesus still on them. That what’s really more of a Catholic thing. But, at least in the movies, either form of cross seems to work.
(And, yes, there are have been some denominations who make a big deal of this. “Our Jesus is no longer on the Cross. He’s alive!” 🙄 [roll eyes emoji])
Interesting fact; the apostolic catholics will have a crucifix during the Easter season, but will take Jesus down for the rest of the year.
As I recall… She was standing in sunlight when she ranted to Joyce about how no one would bother with evil if it wasn’t nice.
Fortunately, most things stop moving once you put a stake through their heart. It’s a wonderful general solution.
Vampirism might explain why she clearly doesn’t have a soul.
There can be only one!
So, we put a stake through her heart and if that doesn’t work, we cut her head off.
That covers all the bases.
After ripping out her femurs, so she can’t get away.
Super villains, mostly.
Super villain is what popped into my head for sure.
Tempt not yon hellassistant! ‘Tis a fiend..a fiend unholy…
Well… with regards to the defiling and perverts bit… my student council president in high school (grew up in Fundieville).
Does that make Mary and Ruth the only ones to remember Billie used to be in cheer?
More people than you think and there are more of them in positions of power in the US than you may realize.
If you listen closely, you can hear the hatred for Mary increase at an alarming rate. That and the sound of me burning down the soft serve factories out of sheer anger and a need to express it.
Yeah, yesterday, I thought it just a couple of tit for tit instances of two girls baiting each other, that went WAAAAAAYYYYYYY too far. Today it is obvious Mary has a general hate on for everyone. I assume even even Joyce would fail to meet here exactling “standards.”
This is Mary’s true face.
She has always acted as though she has a right to get her way, and then stoops to any method to get even with those who don’t grant it: insults, harassment, innuendoes, and trying physical injury with the glue.
Today she outdid herself. And think Ruth is going to make her very sorry.
Yup. She gets her way and gets what she wants when she wants it. Otherwise she’ll wait and plot and prepare for a moment when she can escalate to a point that she intimidates or abuses the other person into following her way.
And if someone is a sexual or gender minority, then that just paints an even bigger target on their back, because “those people” are “sinners” and so God will clearly smile on any action that is in opposition to them.
eh, *shrug*. I sure dislike her, but it’s just a comic. I get it hits close to home for other people tho.
I’m just happy that the automatic gravatars do not seem to include Mary. I’d hate to be stuck with her face on my posts.
(And, yes, I know I could set up my own gravatar. But I don’t like the idea of having the same avatar on every site, and creating new emails has become a huge pain now that everyone asks for your phone number.)
If you have Gmail you can create a “new” email that’ll still go to the same inbox by sticking a period in the address, so example@gmail.com becomes ex.ample@gmail.com or exam.ple@gmail.com (but not example@gm.ail.com).
(A well-endowed person you aren’t dating anymore, getting cut off in the middle of a request for testing, and illness or injury for the guy who runs your Dungeons & Dragons-type game, respectively.)
Also example+anything@gmail.com – this is common to a lot of email services (test it first, though).
And there is an automatic gravatar for Mary – see Zatar.
Honestly, Mary’s position here isn’t as strong as she might think.
1: She doesn’t seem to know about the drinking (surely she would’ve mentioned it, probably using terms like ‘boozer’ or ‘lush’ in her little diatribe). This is key.
2: The Becky situation, oddly enough, is solved by the fact that Ruth can actually say honestly that she’d been lied to by an extensive cover-up by several of the residents. The lack of complaints mean it’s not even the usual situation where a boyfriend/girlfriend ‘moves in’ and the roommate has to deal with it–the roomies were invariably cooperating in the violation. So Ruth’s in the clear; Becky will need to go, unless she can be quickly enrolled/transferred to the school, in which case she might be able to move into a room. If not, I suspect Leslie might be able to step in and find someplace for her to stay in town.
3: Speaking of finding housing, the situation with Billie is actually easily addressed. Find a willing cohort on another wing; make a formal request to swap rooms, giving a (heavily) edited account that boils down to, “We know the relationship is against the rules, that’s why we’re trying to make it right.”
At that point, Mary becomes guilty under the school’s hate-speech rules, and has nothing to hit Ruth back with. She could easily end up kicked out of the dorm, if not expelled, and might also be forced to quit any classes she and Carla share.
And this is roughly how I’m hoping things go down. What I’m hoping Willis avoids is the ‘hypocrisy’ trap, where Mary goes down because of something like getting pregnant. While it’s an understandable and easy plotline, it inevitably raises the question, “So it would’ve been fine if she hadn’t been a hypocrite?” She needs to get her comeuppance because of the horrible things she does, not because she fails to adhere to the standard she wants to inflict on others.
Please let Ruth decide ‘in for a penny, in for a pound’ and proceed to slug Mary in the face since, what the heck, she’s going to get fired anyway.
Knock her in the head so hard she gets amnesia, all problems solved!
Shoot, even if that doesn’t work, just clock her cause she’s mean and has it coming.
Mary has waited so long for this moment
Her superiority complex is cackling so hard right now.
What, like a few weeks? (in DoA time)
No, she’s been building up to being beaten to death with her own still-technically-functional lungs for her whole life.
My stomach sank reading yesterday’s comic. Now I’m expecting AnaziGirl to assist Ruth in the femurectomy. Hmm, my spell check didn’t flag “femurectomy”.
Even your spellchecker wants to see Mary get what she’s working so hard for.
Well. Shit. That’s less than helpful.
Here’s hoping Ruth sticks to her guns. I’d assume the RA thing isn’t essential to her continued education and, let’s be honest, the floor could probably do with having a better RA.
Unfortunately, that leaves Becky…
Mary…more bongo than a Ricky Ricardo concert…
……Okay, the Becky thing is a point, but it’s not like Ruth had any real knowledge that she was *living* in the residence hall. Sure, she could get in trouble for it but considering that the other students have actively been conspiring to keep Becky’s presence hidden, I can’t imagine Ruth would be punished too severely. And, shit, it’s not like Mary said anything about the situation except now that she can exploit it. I’d ask Mary why exactly, if she had knowledge of the situation, she chose not to report it. You know, since she’s clearly SO CONCERNED about it.
And what solid evidence does Mary have that Ruth and Billie are sexually involved? Would that actually be a problem (i.e. does IU have specific regulations concerning relationships between residents and RAs?)?
As usual, Mary seems to think her words carry much more weight than they actually do.
Well, Any time one person has authority over another (EG resident/RA) the idea of consent gets pretty grey and murky, and it’s pretty universally against Da Rules.
I think either one of Mary’s threats alone wouldn’t be too big a blemish on Ruth’s record, I think, especially if Ruth beats Mary to the punch and comes clean herself. Both together would make a stronger case for her removal, though.
The REAL issue is whoever blabs about Becky pretty much ensures her ejection from the college. Here’s hoping that can at least wait until she has a steady job…
Plus, on the Becky thing it could very well turn into a case of Mary’s word against the hall’s word that Becky is even living there. They floor is willing to hide Becky, I think they’ll be willing to lie for her.
…and for a moment it felt like one of those wacky college things where an entire floor hid a student for a semester
Some guys in my dorm tried to pull that off first semester of freshman year. And it almost worked until our (admittedly quite oblivious and crappy) RA got busted smoking weed with a bunch of other guys. The replacement RA was much better, and much more observant.
#getrekt
All of this is absolutely correct, but with Ruth’s psyche the way it is right now, I don’t think she’ll be able to figure this out right away. She’s clinging to Billie as her only reason to not commit suicide. Just the threat of taking her away is going to throw her off her game.
I read once that some RMs also teach. Wouldn’t it be Mary’s bad luck if the RM is Leslie or Daisy?
M: this boy needs to be removed from the dorm.
L: she’s not a boy, and I will kick you out for anymore hate speach.
what the fuck?
I really hope dina and billie dont break up cause of this😥
Wait…what?
I think they meant Dina and Becky. Nice avatar – I like cat Tedd.
Catgirl Tedd is best Tedd.
I prefer Mad Science Tedd, or Pouting-while-being-double-hugged Tedd. Catgirl Tedd remains an excellent Tedd, though.
He is predicting the future.
Dina/Billie OTP
Sierra and Marcie already hate each other enough after the whole Amber and Joe incident. Now because of this Walky and Amazigirl’s marriage will have to be postponed!
Mary needs to be punched in the face. Well, what she needs is to get some basic compassion and human dignity, but I really want to punch her in the face. Ooh, how about Ruth and Amazi-Girl ganging up on her? I’d watch the hell out of that show. The entire first season could be Mary getting owned. They would then move on to systematically destroy their other enemies, such as Amber’s Dad and Crippling Depression. With their fists.
And then Mary gets hit by a truck. One that appears out of nowhere and mows her down while she’s crossing the street, and then disappears, never to be seen again.
She is not missed.
Doesn’t she have to move over to Something Positive first?
Where do you think she’s going to go after getting kicked out of the dorm?
Nope. That’s a red sedan.
Willis was hitting characters with motor vehicles way before Randy.
Behind the truck’s steering wheel, Ruth smiles. “No regrets!”
Would it be too much to expect that everyone then starts claiming Mary’s full of crap when she does go to report Billie and Mary just completely loses it?
Yeah, that is what I was hoping for. A general consensus of “everything is fine, nothing happening here” in the face of these accusations.
And they say honesty is the beat policy. Pshhhh
We might just be in luck… This comes close to the end of this storyline: http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/132311008047/february-19-2016
Waiting for the pivot… there’s always a pivot.
Please, willis, let there be a pivot. Please…
Somebody really needs to push this bongo down a flight of stairs.
Can we all just collectively punch Mary? Please?
No.
Wow, I guess I shouldn’t be shocked that there are people who didn’t hate Mary yesterday, but do now.
Mary is the worst.
Also hey guys here is a friendly reminder that transpeople read these comments, and Willis isn’t on much sleep. Can we please take extra care not to say things that are remotely anti-trans or hurtful? For example, nothing that Carla remotely deserves this, or that Ruth is overreacting. If you think “hey maybe this might not be received well”, then maybe just don’t say it here today. Cool?
I just wanted to comment and say that this comment is very nice of you, and framed very politely.
I agree. Can we also, please, not advocate murdering people, even cartoon characters, over their opinions. Thank you.
*I agree [with Leorale]*
It’s not her opinions she’ll get murdered for, it’s her actions.
… over their actions as portrayed in today’s episode. Thank you.
How are we defining “opinions” here? Is this the definition where we let hateful bigots fall under the same label as people who don’t like chocolate so we can pretend being mean to the former is just as wrong as being mean to the latter?
Basically what I’m saying is, who, exactly, is your comment defending?
I think you’re confusing “not dehumanising people” with “defending bigots”.
+1
Those opinions kill girls like me, so fuck that. Deffo advocating she gets mowed by a truck.
Another option is directing people to information like this TIME article.
Another article, from the Guardian.
A quote from it: “The LGBT community has long counted on our non-LGBT allies to stand beside us in the fight for equality,” Kylar W Broadus, executive director of TPOCC said in a statement. “And right now, the transgender community needs allies more than ever as we fight for our very survival.”
I want to give you every single hug in the goddamn world.
Well said.
Thaaank yoouu!
<3
somebody finally stands up to Ruth…and it’s Mary? really? damn you willis
and it’s over this? really? finally somebody stands up to Ruth, but Ruth is 100% in the right here…and it’s fuckin’ Mary?
double damn you willis
Mary can’t prove shit.
Ruth has a dorm full of girls who have seen her and Billie fight constantly and are willing to hide Becky when necessary.
All Carla has to do is warn Billie or Becky that they need to move their clothes. By the time the manager come up to check on things there will be nothing to see.
No idea why Mary thinks just her word on this will be sufficient or that anyone is going to rat Becky out after what happened.
Like I said, she has absolutely no evidence to back up whatever claims she wants to make. And frankly, I’m sure the manager would be much more interested in why Mary chose not to report an illegal resident until she could use it as leverage to hurt Ruth.
Well, we’re ASSUMING she doesn’t have proof. Its possible that she’s made at least some attempts to collect evidence… perhaps videoing Billie leaving Ruth’s room.
We are also assuming that the rest of the floor would be willing to support Ruth over Mary. I doubt Mary has any friends on the floor, but its possible that some of he residents might be just as annoyed at Ruth.
Billie leaving Ruth’s room is meaningless considering she alleges to have an “open door” policy. Heck, Billia wouldn’t even be entirely dishonest in claiming she was visiting Ruth for help coping with her depression.
“willing to support Ruth over Mary”
No, I’m assuming that they’ll support Becky over Mary because we’ve already seen two non-regular characters help her hide.
As for the thing with Billie, the other residents have only ever seen them fight so there is no reason not to be honest.
I’m not quite sure Ruth would bother trying to be a good liar.
In short, because Mary doesn’t need the RA Manager to believe her. All Mary needs is for Ruth to be scared of her, and the threat suffices for that. Especially because Ruth is a vulnerable person, and threatening something that Ruth would imagine could get Billie taken away from her is going to make her feel extra vulnerable.
Sadly this.
If Ruth calls out her bluff, she’s probably not going to get what she wants though the resulting investigation may fuck over multiple students depending on how it goes.
But by openly defying Ruth in this manner and targeting the ways she is vulnerable and desperate, she does a good job attacking emotional weak points in order to create a climate of fear in her target. Get Ruth hyperanxious about losing the Billie that is right now the only thing she’s using not to kill herself and you might knock her off balance enough to get what you want.
She doesn’t have to prove anything. Just by triggering an investigation, she can just make everyone else’s lives difficult or even have their misdeeds exposed.
Also, literally what the fuck is she getting out of any of this, other than just being a shit-stirrer? Does it fuel her stupid need to feel superior? A power-trip, I guess? Still, jesus, what a bongo.
Mary seems to need everyone else to live by her rules. Not unlike some other characters we have seen who were brought up to follow restrictive, hateful religions instead of deciding anything for themselves. She’s just more smug and less trigger-happy.
Some people think self-righteous asshattery is how a Christian’s supposed to act towards other people.
Mary is one of these people.
Yep, need to feel superior. She’s all into righteous indignation.
I have a lot of difficulty understanding how this makes her feel superior. But then again, I’m having difficulty understanding how she can even manage to maintain those mental blocks against five minutes of rational thought, which she’s bound to do at least at some point during her day.
She’s reacting, not enacting a diabolical plan. Carla pushed her buttons, so she’s lashed out in the nastiest way she could. Then Ruth came down on her for it, so she hit low again to get the upper hand. She’s not thinking — just venting bile.
I’m not sure I agree with that. Like, I don’t think she planned this moment. But she’s definitely been storing all these facts for a moment such as this for awhile in the intent of gaining one hell of an upper hand when she did.
It’s really one of the big things that makes her so dangerous, because she can protest and hide behind being “forced” to do these horrendous actions, while deliberately setting herself up to them for her own advantage.
I don’t think we’re necessarily in that much disagreement here. Clearly, she’s been bottling up and stewing on it. Maybe she even rehearsed that little speech in her head a few times.
But I don’t think she’s acting strategically here. I think Mary would have just quietly kept judging each of them until her anger got the better of her.
back in Oct 15 2014 Mary had a very obviously Evil Villain calculating body language. she has been plotting to do this to Ruth for quite some time.
As much as I hate to admit, Mary’s playing this very well. Also, this semi-relevant article has an awesome name, and I thought it was worth sharing. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosSpeedChess
I tend to think it was a bit more calculated than that. But regardless, there are some things you just Don’t Say, no matter how mad you get, and Mary’s just checking every box here.
She’s making a list, checking it twice. Going to be a complete scumlord no matter if you’re naughty or nice.
Power; she’s wanted to rule the floor from the start.
Yup, she revels in her power over others. Especially social power. She’s the type to exploit privilege deliberately and she’s definitely been doing so in the last two comics.
And sadly that has a lot of real world analogues. There’s no shortage of assholes who, for instance, turn to organized sexism and racism and the ability to hurt those lower on the totem pole than them to get a rush of self-satisfaction.
I think it’s about making her immediate surroundings conform to her comforts. Or as she’d probably say it from her warped sense of justice; set the world right.
Ruth can possibly claim ignorance about Becky, but there’s definitely rules in IU’s health and safety about discrimination policy about harassment due to gender identity. And sexual identity. Which Mary’s breaking.
So double reports filed AND drop a piano on her head!
I like how you think!
When Ruth gets over her surprise, and amusement, she’s going to make Mary regret her nasty bigoted bullying behavior. I hope.
That piano did nothing wrong.
They exist, yeah, but good luck getting them enforced.
Billie, listening in, was unsure how to feel: on one hand, Mary was being a horrible, horrible person, but on the other hand, Mary had described Billie as a cheerleader.
yay
So wait…. Carla’s transgender? Is this a new development or did it come up before and I just not notice?
Its been hinted at, in that Carla said a wang drawn on her door was a hate crime.
I could’ve sworn it was addressed elsewhere – probably the tumblr, though.
IIRC, she also gets her own room.
I’m not sure if it’s actually been mentioned in-comic, but Willis has talked about it since before Carla made her DoA debut.
I was aware, but I don’t know how, so I checked the Carla tags. Only hints within the comic.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/permanent/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/purpleandskates/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/introductions/
It hasn’t been stated in so many words, but it’s been not-so-subtly hinted at.
It was never actually said but implied in some of the older comics very subtly. I didn’t really realize until Willis made a post on which was the best transgender character and identified carla on his tumblr
That Carla is trans has never been explicitly stated in the comic. But there have been several clues. Also, Willis has explicitly said on Tumblr that DoA Carla is trans and asexual.
Some of the clues about Carla:
Carla has a single room for some reason not know to Joyce.
There is a reason Carla is so tall.
Carla says a picture of a penis on her door only would be a hate crime.
I actually took the ‘There’s a reason for that’ in the second one as referring to why she wasn’t in roller derby (and a reference to the cissexism of some women’s groups/spaces) as opposed to her height, but either would make sense.
Both/and
Too late, I won the link race! Although I didn’t explain my links for lazy readers.
I was just looking for you in the comments to say thank you so much for linking these to me yesterday! I didn’t have a chance to do so before comments were closed on that page.
I was amazed that I had apparently been oblivious to these clues. I don’t follow Willis regularly so I wouldn’t have caught on from the tumblr statement, but I should have from those pages. Thanks again!
You’re welcome!
It’s definitely been hinted at, especially strongly if you’re very familiar with Shortpacked – and I did see Willis confirm it on his Tumblr a while before Carla had a speaking role on DoA.
There is also the hint in the alt-text of this strip http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/completelywithout/
Nah, that one’s actually a callback to UltraCar in Shortpacked. Who had a stomach compartment with extendable arm/hand. Often used for precisely that purpose.
Mary talks about perversion like it’s a bad thing.
Well, there are now only two ways for this to end. One, Ruth backs down. Two, Ruth decides “You know what, fuck it” and lays into Mary.
I believe the later will happen.
Ruth is not afraid of Mary I think. She is just not used to having anyone get in her face like this, so she’s a bit startled.
I think maybe Mary’s finally picked the wrong person to threaten, hassle, insult and attempt to intimidate.
You’re assuming this will remain a two-person fight.
The gravatar you have is oddly appropriate for your comment. I approve full heartedly, and am somehow filled with hope.
That grin, so evil.
I’m sorry, I lied. There is a third way. Ruth bluffs. And bluffs hard about taking Mary down with her. And what would her fundie parents think about their “good little Christian” daughter being expelled from college?
Either way, Mary arguably wins. Either she ends up with an advantage over Ruth or Ruth gets fired and maybe even charged with assault.
Destroy her. Evil like that should not be allowed oxygen.
In other news, I drew this
NSFW
This is the least NSFW thing dumbing of age I drew today and it’s the one people won’t get mad at me about probablyoh my.
Grazie! It is an excellent pic!
Don’t be surprised if you wake up tomorrow morning without your femurs.
But like….
Committing microagressions (like Mary just did) is against University Policy (at leas4 at my school).
She can’t avoid expulsion if she keeps it up “because my RA isn’t doing her job!!”
I’m pretty sure that Ruth could lose her job if this stuff came to light. Mary would get in trouble too, so I think she’s banking on Ruth not doing anything. If she does, then Mary at least gets to take Ruth down with her.
This is less “microaggressions” and more “hate speech”.
Yeah, it’s definitely her jumping into the deep end of the transphobia pool.
Also, that.
You know, with this level of blackmail, you could get away with some serious stuff. But Mary uses her blackmail leverage to try to… get away with being a transphobic piece of shit. My vote goes to the Roomies’ truck making a cameo for Mary.
At least she can’t exactly prove her blackmail to the residence manager, as she only has her own word. Meanwhile, the dorm will cover for Becky (just claim to be Billie’s visiting cousin or something) and I have the distinct feeling that Carla will help out Ruth and Billie. In which case, it will be the unsubstantiated word of a freshman against an RA that the residence office “loves”.
The thing about blackmail though is…
It really only ever has one ending if it’s successful. And that’s murder. While Willis promised no deaths, Mary might end up in a precarious position if she makes Ruth genuinely believe she has no options and no way out. Extra precarious given that Ruth is already in a headspace where she is very prone to believing that she’s out of options and there’s no way back to happiness.
You know, accidents happen. Also, something I just thought of, we haven’t factored Roz into this. She’s had to put up with Mary’s bullshit for a while now (don’t know how) and is either going to go into full on crusader mode or just snap if she finds out what Mary said to Carla. At the very least, she’s gonna make Mary’s life as difficult as possible. At the worst….well, let’s just say it might not be Ruth who ends up pushing Mary down a set of stairs.
Ooh, now that’s an interesting point. If Roz finds out about this (and what’s the over-under on Mary deciding to brag to anyone she can find if she gets away with this), she’s definitely going to have more than a few words to say and will probably be of a mind to bring them up at the floor meeting.
Does Mary even have proof of anything, though? The entire floor would deny the entire thing, and considering she just said something horribly transphobic, following it up with “and there’s LESBIANS* who are breaking RULES!” isn’t going to make her look all that credible to the authorities.
*and bisexuals but I doubt Mary cares about the distinction
Also first time commenting despite reading this for over a year, let’s see if I get a decent gravatar haha
“I took photos of all the women having sex. No homo”.
Seriously, though, maybe Mary’s in a thick closet.
I mean that’s what I’m rooting for, but that sort of applies to every other cast member, too.
I only touched myself 17…hundred times to these.
Well, if she is in the closet and holds to those fundie beliefs, then her hateful and spiteful actions are probably to make other people feel as crappy as she does. If this where in fact the case, I might actually pity her.
I wouldn’t. Otherwise I’d have to pity 4chan. And as a matter of principle, I am not going to do that.
Would they all? Or would someone actually want to see the back of Ruth and back Mary…after all Ruth has physically threatened everyone and everyone has seen shes capable of carrying out her threats
Maybe some chickens coming home to roost for Ruth
Yes, I’ve been reading quite a few comments about “nobody vouching for Mary” and thinking “but Ruth’s pretty unpopular on the floor too”. AFAIK only Billie has our perspective on her; nobody else has seen her vulnerability.
Some people are terrible liars.
Mary you piece of skin.
She’s a skin tag on Blaine’s butt.
Hey, let’s have Joyce pop up and tell her what she thinks of Mary being bigoted and talking crap about her friend after all the hell she went through.
Five bucks one Joyce-punch puts Mary through a wall.
And then Mary gets punched in the face. Oh noes… says no one.
This is why I keep reading this comic, the tension build ups are excellent, the out of right field revelations just keep on coming and the drama, oh the drama
The issue for me is Mary is right in that Ruth is a terrible RA (and not much better as a person though she has her moments) but I sort of kinda hoped that maybe she’d see the error of her ways and start to make amends
Hopefully Ruth gets replaced, Mary gets transferred and Carla takes on board a lesson about picking your battles (but a new pair of skates would be good as well)
Floor meeting tonight, do a Commandant Spangler punishment. “Mary has been making transphobic comments. As such, the showers on your floor will be locked for two weeks. You may thank the cadet after I leave.”
Agghhh, I had a feeling this was the way the wind was blowing. We know that Mary’s been collecting intel on Ruth and Billie, so that one wasn’t hard to see coming. I didn’t see Becky being thrown in there. We’ve seen the girls on that floor pulling together to hide Becky from Ruth. They should have been making more effort to hide her from Mary.
Apparently, Mary knows everyone’s secrets, then saves them up to use as weapons. She’s a snoop, and she’s malicious.
I have a bad feeling that this will get so, so much uglier.
This.
And if Mary wins here, we can expect her to escalate with that cause she’ll believe her bad behavior can pay off in the short term.
To think, she just wanted to study. Also I really don’t get the previous comic. I mean, it’s a modern comic so I’m assuming it is some kind of rape/sexual orientation/gender identity awareness kind of thing?
It’s Mary being a d-bag and saying that Carla isn’t a woman, she’s her birth gender that doesn’t match up with who she really is. (I’m trying to word this correctly, apologies if I make mistakes it. It’s putting Carla in an enormously unsafe situation by outing her as a MTF trans student, and it’s a hugely douchey thing to do)
Carla is trans. Mary was saying she wasn’t a woman, she was a man.
I mean, if she just wanted to study, she’d have grabbed her books and gone to a quiet room. What Mary wants is to crusade.
Yup.
Quiet room
Like…her own room?
It’s been noted in previous comment sections that there are designated quiet rooms on each floor, and that it’s not exactly reasonable to expect perfect quiet in a living area in the middle of a Friday afternoon.
It just seems really odd that students should be expected to leave their own rooms if they want peace and quiet. I can understand if you have a bit of a noisy roommate, but if it’s disturbances happening outside in the hall-
You know what why didn’t Mary just call someone? Like Campus Security.
….
Does this place even HAVE Campus Security?
That would’ve been the mature, adult thing to do. But here we are.
Even if she has a right to quiet in her room (which really shouldn’t be your expectation in a dorm tbh, regardless of how importantit may be), this is beyond reasonable retaliation. And yeah, reporting her woud have been the sensible step if it bothered her that much, but the RA would be the actual step to report it to as far as I can see, and she doesn’t exactly respect Ruth (of course, again, why she ignored security or student services remains a question (if we didn’t know by now that she’s on a power trip))
It seems a lot weirder that people should be expected to levitate when trying to get to and from their rooms.
Because that’s the only way Mary’s going to get her sacred perfect quiet.
Dorms are living spaces. Living involves noise. There are reasonable limits that can be put on that noise, but ‘the sound of travel is absolutely verboten in the middle of a school day in the second month of school’ is not a reasonable limit.
Not midday on a Friday it ain’t. But there’s one literally down the hall. LITERALLY.
My opinion is Carla was absolutely in the wrong and bullying Mary. Then Mary become a disgusting bigot and is now a blackmailer. Which just goes to show you can be a jerk and still be a victim of a genuinely evil and vile person. Mary’s behavior is beyond the pale and is to Carla’s behavior what [insert hate-monger of your choice] to Newman from Seinfeld. People should ditch any sympathy they had for Mary as the situation is no longer about making noise. It’s about abuse, hate, and hate mongering.
“Bullying” by skating in the halls? Your definition of bullying is broken.
Skating in the halls wasn’t bullying. Continuing to skate in the halls just to annoy Mary, even jumping over Mary and risking hurting her, was getting pretty close to bullying. Loudly jumping up and down in roller-skates outside Mary’s room was definitely harassment, even if she did have a good reason to be angry at Mary.
THAT SAID, none of this excuses what Mary is doing right now. Carla was being an asshole, but so was Mary. Then Mary crossed the line from “asshole” to “completely vile person”, so I don’t really care who started it. Carla was in the wrong, but Mary is MORE in the wrong. Like, WAY more.
If it was bullying, it’s only by the kind of pedantic, zero-tolerance definition that lets bullies turn accusations back on their victims. As long-term persistent behavior it could turn to bullying, but as a one-shot deal it’s just an annoyance. If you’re dealing with a bureaucracy that has a list of bullying behaviors with no nuance, then this kind of thing could be on there. And that would be dumb.
“Just to” is a strong statement. Seemed to me like she was just skating to skate.
“New skates!”
Mary is a total idiot. Either that or she has a death wish.
I don’t think that she has faced Ruth down at all. Ruth has the look of someone seeing a bunny taking on a tiger. And is just waiting to see what happens next.
I think Mary is an angry person who has always seemed like someone who will stoop to any level to get her way: nagging, harassment, insults, and now blackmail. Tell her no, and she will make your life Hell.
Youch
Wow. You are. Just a bongo arent you Mary.
And like a bongo, I can’t wait for her to be POUNDED REPEATEDLY 😀
Ohhh nicely done
It changes the words when I cuss? That’s so awesome! Can I have that function when children are around please
A while ago, when Roz was getting snarky at Joyce, people kept calling her that word, and Willis got sick of it. As far as I know the only word it is for is the b-word.
The weird thing is, a good number of us are now aware of it and make jokes about it, so you can’t tell who originally wrote bongo and who tried to say the other word and got censored.
Do “country matters” get censored? Because even though I have never used that word (look up the tvtrope “country matters” to find out what I’m talking about), but Mary is sorely tempting me to.
I tend to reserve that word for those I feel have disgraced the female gender. So far I just feel like Mary’s disgracing humanity as a whole.
Just that word. Comes from the ‘sweet lesbian facts’ confrontation between Roz and Joyce, where that word saw much use in the comments section.
Carla’s transgender, so Mary’s comment was meant to imply that Carla isn’t really a woman. It’s really, incredibly out of line regardless of the situation.
….and with that the war begins.
War? Huh! What is it good for?
Violently removing femurs.
I need to apologize to my roommate for my comment earlier today. Mary is way worse than him.
You mean she actually accomplished something of value? Wow. That’s a little scary.
I don’t know what you mean by actually accomplished something of value.
And also I was waiting for a comments section post-transphobia to say that, to avoid having my comment about him bringing it up and getting either myself banned or my comment deleted.
mary talks like toedad. like with the same unbelievable creepy vocab. what the fuck
I mean, they seem to belong to similar schools of thought, so it’s not really that surprising.
yeah but joyce is(/was?) a fundie too, and even from the same circle as toedad (while mary isnt) and even before she started changing i dont remember her ever saying things like this
Well, Joyce seems to be a good person at her core. Joyce has been brainwashed pretty bad, and when she first started college she would have been scandalized to find out Carla was transgender, but it would have been from “a place of love” and she probably would have decided it’s “not her place to judge”. And, after the whole thing with Becky and Toedad, I don’t think she would care at all. (Although with her rigid adherence to gender roles right now, I’m not sure.) Joyce has a conscience and her Dad, at least, seems to encourage her to make her own decisions and do what she thinks is right. Plus there’s the fact that she said she thinks her parents switched churches so many times is because of people like Mary, so I’m guessing even her parents wouldn’t have encouraged her to act like this.
Mary, on the other hand, gets upset at people for being “wrong” and decides they need to be “punished” for it. Of course, she doesn’t actually do anything about it until it can benefit her. (She didn’t say shit about Carla being transgendered until she knew it would really hurt her, and she didn’t bring up all the things Ruth has been doing until she could use it to her advantage.)
TL;DR: Joyce freaks out because she cares about people, but always decides that they should do what’s right for THEM. Mary freaks out because she judges people, and she always decides that they should do whatever the hell she wants them to do.
Attempted blackmail is a crime, Mary. Jussayin’.
Is it “attempted” only when it doesn’t work?
Isn’t it just heresy until she has some solid evidence that she fuckin Billie? And is there actually some rule against that? And if there is, why is the relationship between two consenting legal adults the business of the upper people? You know what is without a doubt a punishable offense though? HATE SPEECH.
Hate speech absolutely. However, if Mary reported Ruth and Becky, any investigation would find Billie’s and Becky’s stuff where they’re not supposed to be. Also, it is indeed against the rules for staff members (including RAs) to have relationships with students, since the power imbalance makes it difficult to discern whether the student consented or was coerced.
True, it’s probably against the rules (the relationship part). But then again, threatening the members of your dorm with physical violence and defacing their property are all also probably against the rules. And the actual law. So if Mary’s ploy actually works, I’ll be surprised. Them again, we need another plot to latch onto, and this one seems ripe.
“But then again, threatening the members of your dorm with physical violence and defacing their property are all also probably against the rules. And the actual law.”
And yet Ruth did exactly that early on. Hopefully no one’s still nursing a grudge.
Hearsay. Heresy is…something different.
Probably more effective to accuse Mary of committing, though.
1) I’d say she is guilty of heresy
2) she probably wouldn’t care about such an accusation because, to quote an old roommate who made conversations very uncomfortable, “only filthy papists use that word”
Well, there are often rules against people having relationships with people under their authority (such as teacher/student, or boss/worker), possibly to prevent situations where the subordinate is either unduly pressured (i.e. doesn’t want to date but has to or risk the consequences) or unduly benefits (i.e. a student gets higher grades.)
Now, I don’t know if an R.A./Resident relationship would have quite the same restrictions as a Teacher/Student, but I can see the university having rules against it for similar reasons.
Does Mary even have any sort of authority to “escort” Carla anywhere? At any rate, I hope she gets comeuppance’d real soon.
Of course not. Mary was off to find Higher Authority; she may have had that line running through her head and used it when Carla followed.
Carla was following her. Wherever she went, she was escorting Carla.
Mary is terrible- but clearly a product of her environment, who needs help learning to bring forward her faith in a suitable fashion.
Try referring her to Luke 18:9-14, maybe, Ruth?
With your fist and knee if necessary.
Joyce and Becky both grew up in a similar environment. It’s not that Mary is a product of her environment, it’s that Mary is just an asshole.
This. I’ve always thought of Mary as the contrast to Joyce: they basically grew up in the same environment, but Joyce is a fundamentally good person while Mary is a demagogue-in-training.
Thus, Joyce struggles to overcome her fundie programming when she discovers that ‘those people’ aren’t actually evil after all, while Mary doubles down on her prejudices because she knows she’s better than them (and if they weren’t evil then she’d have to face some uncomfortable truths about herself – I suspect we’re being set up for a reveal of Mary’s personal demons at some point).
The difference is that Mary was a princess who could do no wrong. She was repeatedly told that she was the saved and everyone else was the sinner. Joyce was told she was a sinner and needed to atone, so she never developed the ‘only I’ mentality.
I personally believe Mary was an only child and spoiled, whereas Joyce had siblings and wasn’t made as much of a pet by her parents. Also, monkey see, monkey do? Joyce said her parents kept switching churches because of b-words, whereas Mary and her parents WERE the b-words. Different environments.
And sometimes people are just different. You could argue that Joyce would likely be spoiled as the youngest child and only (apparent) girl.
Also, as far as we know, Becky was an only child and likely raised in at least as fundy an environment and turned out completely different.
We don’t actually know anything about Mary’s family. I’d definitely be interested in more development for her background. Something to give us more of an idea where she’s coming from and maybe make us more sympathetic, while still leaving her the bad guy mirror for Joyce.
I’m reminded of the Racist Grandma defense, where the lil ol’ lady is too set in her ways because she was “”just”” a “product of her time.”
Nevermind that learning and changing are Things anyone is capable of. Of course, they’d have to care. And not be a jerk.
You can only hide behind “product of environment” for so long before it starts to break down.
The grandma defence does have some validity though. Not ethically, but historically. Change takes time and often not until everyone who cling to the old ways have died.
I figure that the Racist Grandma lived through the Civil Rights movement, too. Grandmas are smart and should be a product of their whole lives.
instead of just being a product of their privilege BOOM
And there are only so many horrendously offensive emails about Obama you’re willing to receive before you call them on their ridiculous bullshit, ‘respect for the elderly’ be damned. Respect for humanity is a thing too ffs.
Isn’t Mary “born again” Christian which means she took it in by choice?
So it’s rather that she chose Christianity as a tool for being an hateful than being hateful because of her family’s brand of Christianity
A great many ‘born again’ Christians, particularly of the American fundamentalist variety, are basically raised from birth in the subcultural bubble and insulated from the outside world. It’s not like an adult conversion; it’s very likely that when Mary made her ‘choice’ she had virtually no experience of anything outside the evangelical tribe. Her particular prejudices will have been firmly instilled and reinforced by her environment.
Other than that, I agree with the thrust of your point; at some point “it’s not my fault, I was raised this way” does stop being a defence, and I’m generally a big proponent of the argument that religion doesn’t make assholes, it just makes assholes more obnoxiously self-righteous.
Joyce and Mary were apparently raised in very similar circumstances and absorbed very similar prejudices. Both are “born again” (Has Joyce actually used that language? Can’t recall.)
The difference is that Joyce is a good person and Mary is a bully. Joyce said some horribly offensive things early on, but in ignorance and confusion and never with intent to hurt. That doesn’t necessarily make them less painful.
She’s learned better.
I suspect even now, if suddenly confronted with Carla being trans, she’d react badly – babble offensively, say some very hurtful things.
Mary on the other hand, doesn’t. She learns about it. Doesn’t react with shock and horror. Saves up the secret. Then deliberately uses it to hurt Carla when she’s mad at her.
Like you said, it’s not just the religion. That just normalizes it. Makes Mary feel even more justified in her bullying.
Funnily enough, the only time I can recall Joyce using “born again” off the top of my head was in reference to Mary…
I like how you say things better.
Hey, Megs?
If you promise to use it on Mary, I’ll make you a new cannon.
It’s the least she deserves, really.
Well. This was bound to happen and we knew it.
So is this the part where she “accidentally” falls down the same set of stairs over and over and over again?
I see Al Bundy escorting one of Kelly’s toys to the door by the collar and ‘accidentally’ running him into the door frame.
Lather, rinse, repeat for Mary.
Huh, I see an Escher print.
So, this is where Ruth could sit Mary down and calmly help her figure out if this is what she wants out of her life; to look down on people and try to ruin their lives for not fitting in the tight little boxes of what she thinks they should be allowed to do, or be.
Or, which seems more likely, femurs.
It’s tough to figure out what action to root for because Ruth, Billie, and Becky are all really vulnerable right now. Becky’s peril is obvious and I’m concerned about the effects on Ruth and Billie’s mental health if Ruth loses her job or her place in the dorm or something. So even though I do hope Ruth and Carla report Mary for hate speech and she gets expelled and we never see her in the comic again, it’s hard to feel all “rah rah destroy the bigoted piece of shit yes” about it.
I’m leaning towards believing that Ruth will take action, since Ruth doesn’t know enough about Becky to feel sympathetic to her (although Mary referring to her as a “perverted vagrant” might be enough) and she may not value self-preservation because she feels as though she’s committed to a suicide pact.
Other comments have correctly pointed out that Mary doesn’t seem to have proof to back up her statements, so this seems to be an empty threat, but I do think Mary is cunning and vile enough to have gathered evidence. If nothing else, I think she could get enough eyes on the dorm that it would screw over Becky.
I say the best course of action is for Carla to file against Mary for hate speech.
If only Joyce had opened up to Leslie. Then she probably could have helped to set Becky up with the information of a women’s shelter, especially since she went through a similar situation herself.If Becky gets discovered, the absolutely worse case scenario is that she’s asked to leave, if that, and that’s a minor problem if she has someplace to go.
Also, Becky was kidnapped on campus at gunpoint in broad daylight, forced into a car, and nearly died in a crash. There is no way on earth that a University wants to be seen in any way as unsympathetic to that person. They might even let her stay, or at least help her find the resources she needs in this situation.
‘Sympathetic to Becky’ doesn’t mean not firing Ruth, though.
Earlier strips made a big point out of the dorm meeting Ruth’s holding about Ross’ rampage. I figure that Ruth will take the opportunity to say something to blunt the edge of Mary’s blackmail-knife.
http://i.imgur.com/1sxTED6.png
For a second I thought that said: “Joe, talk about misreading signals.”
It would end with him saying: “They can never misread THIS signal!” Then pointing towards his penis.
The twist is that she was right. Mary’s just REALLY bad at this.
Mary’s playing the Tsundere too hard and hasn’t gotten to the Dere yet.
Don’t worry she’ll get DERE….TSUNer or later!
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa *points finger guns*
What are you doing man?! We just had someome waving a rifle around campus!
I promise they’re not loaded. And the safety’s on.
*puns*
oooOOOooooOoooh
You get a Pun Cookie.
All Tsun and no Dere makes Mary a total bongo.
the year is 2016, I think it’s time for an eject button for comment sections… like maybe for people defending actual hate speech?
This series is too good and I mean that literally.
I may have to take a week off, because I am so angry with Mary and so distraught that evil is winning that I can’t take it.
I hope Ruth doesn’t heed Mary and instead snap her in half.
but… her “standing up” to ruth was nothing but unsubtle lesbophobia. “youre awful cause youre having sex with a girl and are letting a homeless lesbian live here”. that is literally what she said. she didnt bring up any of the bad things ruth has actually ever done. how are you interpreting this as her standing up to a bully
this was supposed to be a reply what happen
im assuming the comment got deleted, which makes sense
That makes sense, there are several comments that all seem to be responding to something that isn’t there.
Well, the first, while Mary states it in the MOST OFFENSIVE WAY POSSIBLE, is a problem in that it’s a relationship with one of her charges. While it’s not always a firing offense, it’s strongly discouraged, and it is grounds for dismissal at SOME universities.
But not an expulsion offense – just a “you lose your job” offense.
As for the issue of Becky – honestly, it’s tough to know how that plays out. EVERYONE else in the wing knows – but they’re ALL working to keep Becky a secret from Ruth. Ruth could conceivably have plausible deniablilty in not knowing about Becky – “how could I know when every other resident is actively working to hide her, and specifically hide her from ME? That’s a pretty high bar to hold me to.”.
Interestingly enough, Mary doesn’t mention (possibly not knowing about) the atom bomb in the room – 90 KAZILLION BOTTLES OF BOOZE between Ruth and Billie.
Meanwhile, Mary’s got straight-up harassment charges on her, with a witness present. I get that she’s playing brinksmanship here, but she has less room for wiggling out of this – both in terms of being found in violation of guidelines (being caught dead to rights harassing someone) and in terms of punishment afterwards. Ruth might lose her position, but Mary might get expelled.
(And as for Carla, she gets conduct write-ups. Not much to that one. “Don’t skate in the halls again. Got it?”)
I’m wondering if Mary happens to drink, too.
Would they be keeping the empty bottles there though?
sure, thats true. but i think the way she said it all makes it clear that in her mind the problem is the same-sex aspect and not the actual rules.
also if mary was bringing up real complaints youd think shed mention the time ruth hit her in the face
Yeah, that’s the whole problem with the ‘Mary’s got a point’ argument.
While Ruth is breaking rules, and Carla was until her skates got ruined, those rules (and the good reasons for them) aren’t what Mary’s statements (and actions) tell us that she’s bothered by.
She clearly wasn’t bothered by Carla’s skating qua skating or the safety issues that lead to the rule – she was bothered by non-rule breaking noise, and then became a safety hazard herself to get back at Carla refusing to assent to what she saw as an unreasonable request. (She probably wouldn’t have stopped if Mary HAD cited the good reason, either, because kids are dumb and Carla’s not exactly considerate, but Mary never even tried to claim the high ground.)
Ruth shouldn’t be banging one of the students under her charge, and Becky being there is technically a rules violation (though one that really should be overlooked under the circumstances), this is all true, but…Mary never mentioned the threats or the actual violence (which should be bigger deals than either of those), but she DID mention Billie’s gender and that Becky was a lesbian, so the queer aspect is clearly awful high in her thoughts.
Mary, Mary, quite contrary….
…choke on a used dildo and die.
You could not have been randomly assigned a more appropriate avatar.
Save Carla, of course.
Right?I love my avatar. I’ll be sad if I ever lose her. <3
Which you probably will if Willis ever finds himself with reason to draw her as herself, rather than fronting as ‘Joshua’.
I think you’ll agree that’d be an acceptable loss. (And reason to get a permanent grav!)
That doesn’t rhyme at all. You are terrible at this.
HAHA, YES. it seems that David has taken action with the comments.
I guess we’re going to learn if Ruth is one of those rare people whom you should never, ever threaten, because they have just stopped giving a damn what happens to them if it means taking you out, or if Billie has saved her enough… to ruin her.
i am quietly sitting this out and waiting for a happy ending.
Mary’s acting tough, but she doesn’t actually have anything. She has hearsay, but no evidence that Ruth is having lesbian affairs with one of her charges. Her desire to get Carla removed from the female wing incurs the whole issues with tolerance, and the transgender debate isn’t something I think the college would like to be involved with. (Plus, again, she has no proof to get Carla evicted, other than a few annoying misdemeanors.)
She has no evidence to back up anything she’s saying. It sounds tough, but she can’t back up ANY OF IT. And the lengths she would most likely have to stoop to get it would get HER evicted.
Actually her whole reasoning for getting Carla removed was because she was roller bladin’ up and down the hallways while she was trying to study. She used the “in the boys dorm where you belong.” remark as an insult, but he original reason was that Carla was keeping her from concentrating. That or she’s secretly got tons of pent up sexual tension for roller bladin’ redheads. Who can tell with these crazy kids.
Again, though, it’s a misdemeanor, a minor offense. And the only thing she has close to evidence of. (Though that evidence also gives evidence to her involving herself in the destruction of Carla’s personal property.) That alone isn’t sufficient to get someone evicted, unless they have multiple accounts of Carla doing this.
And naturally the thought keeps popping up in my head ‘if she was bothering you, why didn’t you just leave and go to an official study place to study rather than engaging in a petty war like you’re freaking Bugs Bunny?’
I’ve never understood this. It’s her room, why isn’t she allowed to study there? Shouldn’t it be obvious that maybe Carla shouldn’t have been skating down the halls? I’m not seeing how Mary using her room to study in instead of the library is somehow grounds for what Carla was doing as okay?
This is becoming really hard to talk about because literally everybody in these recent strips did something that you could look at as wrong.
Carla kept skating down the hall even when Mary told her not to, and then kept harassing her.
Mary fucked up the carpet and Carla’s skates, then holy shit did she drop the bomb.
And Ruth…Well there’s like forty strips of what’s wrong with Ruth.
I kinda’ just don’t like any of these people.
Yeah, they’re all being asses about this. But this should have been a simple solution and instead it’s escalated into a huge mess because none of them could be mature about it. And I think that’s what really annoys me.
Despite it clearly being everyone’s faults, Mary’s determined to make it all everyone else’s fault BUT hers. (When she’s clearly also at fault.) She has no evidence to make the major things all everyone else’s faults like she wants. She does have evidence for smaller things that are everyone’s faults, but she’s overlooking it.
In general, everyone’s being dumb here.
Everyone has done something wrong in this series of strips yes. Carla was being obnoxious, and possibly a safety hazard. Mary has tried to ensure that Carla gets injured, and when that didn’t stop Carla, started being a transphobic asshole.
Just because Carla has done something wrong doesn’t mean she deserves what Mary has been doing to her. And Mary’s actions aren’t hateful to just Carla. They’re hateful towards anyone who is trans.
They’re all assholes, but Mary won the asshole contest a few pages ago.
I’m guess I’m just getting comment section whiplash. Few days ago everyone was all peace and cakes and now it’s all Anger>>>Rational Thought
This isn’t really a situation where there’s a right or wrong side. Both parties did wrong things, Mary’s MUCH worse, and that’s how it should be seen.
God I just wanna’ go back to Joyce-…Dina-….
Oh god there’s nobody happy left is there?
Um, maybe Sierra? Dorothy and Walky? Whatever Mike feels aside from the need to be a contrarian jerkass? Good God, those are our options for happy people… Wait! Jacob! Jacob is still happy! Right?
Not if Sarah gets a hold of him.
Becky might be one of the happiest people in the strip atm.
No. There is a wrong side. The wrong side is the person who escalated it to destruction of property, bodily harm and hate speech. There is ABSOLUTELY a wrong side.
(I mean, I’m agreeing with you)
(Ok I am not actually agreeing with you now that I re-read your comment, I got confused. You actually DID say there was no wrong side. There totally was a wrong side)
They’re both wrong sides.
Carla’s obviously more the victim, Mary’s done considerably worse things, but that doesn’t retroactively make Carla innocent.
And to lesbians, the homeless, and generally anyone who isn’t Mary.
You know… I’m an idiot. Because yesterday I had a post ready to put up first thing saying, hey assholes who want to defend Mary’s actions and shit on Carla, maybe think twice about the incredibly insensitive message that sends to us trans girls.
And tonight? Tonight I was all, eh, I don’t need to put that up. It’s moved on from that point, people aren’t going to be dragging in Carla’s supposed “awful skating on carpet, oooooh” garbage like nothing at all fucking happened.
But nope, a large number of a-holes apparently still haven’t gotten the memo about the disproportionality of Mary’s actions versus the bullshit excuse Mary has clung to to justify bullying and injuring (repeatedly now) Carla.
And it hasn’t stopped the ignorant as fuck a-holes who want to still pretend like Carla is the bully here.
So yeah, no. Sorry, but no. Look at your life. Look at your life choices and for fuck’s sake can you all think twice before trying to resell those donkey turds in these of all comics?!?
Like, literally every character here sucks. Ain’t no problem sharing the suckitude equally. Plenty of suck to go around. A vast ocean of suck awaits them to sail.
Oh yay, false equivalence. That’s awesome.
Okay tone down the sarcasm, I almost didn’t catch it. And there’s not false equivalence. Nothing that any of these characters have done can be considered equal to each other in any way. But that still don’t mean I have to like them.
Alrighty?
You’re an idiot of the highest order. I sincerely hope your HDD disks magically fall into each other and the public library throws you out for being a jackass.
Today and yesterday’s comics have been ridiculously painful, and, just, yes. +1. Being a jerk doesn’t validate destruction of property, let alone this shit.
Carla shouldn’t have been skating down the halls, because it’s a safety hazard.
Not because of noise, despite what Mary claims.
Anyone who can’t study because of a negligable amount of noise in the hallways in the middle of the day a month into the the school year needs to either learn to deal with in a sane way.
And I need to learn to complete my thoughts before hitting ‘post’.
Anyone who can’t study because of a negligable amount of noise in the hallways in the middle of the day a month into the the school year needs to either learn to deal with in a sane way, or to not be in a group environment to begin with.
Yeah, the reason behind the rule, is quite telling when it comes to Mary trying to enforce the rule. Her second action is to try and trip Carla. This could hurt Carla, Mary, and any number of bystanders who just happen to be there. Which is why I’m not sympathetic to the “Mary just wanted some quiet!” argument.
Yes, precisely.
If all Mary wanted peace and quiet, why didn’t she pull this shit then?
“what carla was doing was OK”
Carla wasnt actually being too loud initially. If she was breaking a rule it was only for skating, not for noise.
Mary has a right to study in her room. But shes not entitled to absolute silence during the day.
That Carla wasnt being extra-nice to Mary ( would you ? ) doesnt ipso facto make Carla just as bad as Mary or an awful person. Yes, this means Mary has a minor inconvenience. But Mary doesnt have a right NOT be minorly inconvenienced.
Thats how privilege operates. Someone with a special privilege takes it for a guaranteed right, instead of a special request.
she shares a room with another person who can make noise. She also lives in dorm filled 18 year olds, who are not known for being churchmice.
Dorms have regulated quiet times. Usually after 10 pm on schoolnights,
or all day during midterms. Everyone there is under the same terms.
So Marys request for extra quiet ( actually total silence ) was a request for privilege, she doesn’t have a right to. Carla did nothing wrong by not granting it. It was a special request. Dorms are not designated quiet spaces 24 hours a day— unless you live in a special dorm which is this.
They usually exist. Most universities also have designated sober dorms, quiet dorms, older student housing, and LGBT safe housing etc.
Mary was acting out of misplaced sense of entitlement and privilege. Carla could have been extra nice to her or she could have refused.
Marys escalations, ie. blocking the hallway and vandalizing it were far worse infractions than Carla skating.
When Carla was being loud enough to cause a disturbance it was because of Marys actions ( her wheels were glued shut ) .
Campus speech codes for bias and harassment, are also strict.
Mary isnt the Queen of the Dorm, and Carla isnt her royal subject.
Mary isnt the designated Christian adult, not the Dorm authority figure.
That she keeps acting like it, is why she gets into trouble.
No. It is explicitly not. If she just wanted her to shut up, she wouldn’t have used cissexist remarks. She knows exactly what she’s doing. She waited for Carla to bother her to use it, but don’t fucking kid yourself – her actual problem here is that Carla’s trans. Everyone has been loud. Not everyone has been told ‘you belong in the boys wing’.
And for fuck’s sake, Roller SKATES, not BLADES. Not that either is SUPER gendered, but SKATES are gendered FEMALE (AFAIK). It’d be like saying Mary’s a boy because she’s an artist – asinine and untrue.
I’ve never heard of either type of skate being gendered, though “roller blades” (even for inline skates) is kind of 90s, and obviously incorrect in any case for quads.
Wait, what? Skates are gendered? Huh? ._.
They were in the 90s, at least. Is it that surprising? So many fool things are fucking gendered even though they don’t need to be.
*highlights this*
I love how a few days ago everyone was all “Violence doesn’t solve anything.” but now that’s changed to “FUCK RATIONAL THOUGHT! MURDERRRRRRR!
Also Mary better be careful, the last person who got in Ruth’s face and called her out….
Actually never mind let’s see how this plays out.
“Violence is only good when it’s happening to people I think deserve it”
-a hypocrite
Most of the people who want to kill Mary aren’t the people who advocated for nonviolence. But please, try and find the comment where I hope someone dies. Good luck, I didn’t want Blaine or Toedad to be beaten into a hospital.
Violence is a proportional response to the threat of violence, which is what outing someone against their will is. A threat. Of violence.
That said, still inadvisable. Proportional, but inadvisable.
So, yeah, Mary does keep track of everything to have leverage at the right moment.
I bet she keeps a chart. With a section for every single person remotely in her life. Where she writes down EVERYTHING she knows about them and colour-codes each piece of information for level of moral wrongness.
Ooh, very organized. It would almost instill a bit of respect in me if she wasn’t… you know… horrible.
That rant in the third panel reads like something out of Dickens. Who says “defiling”?
My great-grandmother. Literally, she said it last week when we visited her.
So Mary has the same vocab as a ninety-five-year-old lady who is very, VERY mean.
Mary looks young but she’s actually in her late 50s.
I dunno. Someone who grew up being read the King James Bible and nothing but the King James Bible?
I bet she read Lamentations, like, a thousand times. King James version. That shit’s hardcore. Like that was her bed time story. ‘Tell me again about the starving widow sinners again, Daddy!’ ‘Sweetie, we’ve read this chapter six times, can’t we move on?’ ‘I wanna hear about the widows again!’
Mary, obviously.
Wow, in just 2 strips Mary went from “annoying person” to “worse than Toedad”.
I’m impressed.
Mary hasn’t threatened to kill anyone over their orientation yet.
That is pretty damn hard to top. Unless someone decides to genocide or something.
This is where it can start though. If she gets away with this without repercussions, it will reinforce the idea in her mind that she is right and her actions are justified. After years of this, if can go from blackmailing your RA to threatening to kill your daughter’s girlfriend and kidnapping your daughter at gunpoint.
Not often I feel the desire to reach into a comic and punch a character. JESUS she’s evil and mean.
Ruth is a terrible RA though, beyond just the conflict of interest involving her sex life or her ignorance of Becky.
She’s a bully. Not just a “you said things that made me feel bad” bully, but an actual “threats of bodily harm, and willingness to move forward on said threat” bully.
At my university, that would be grounds for a conduct board hearing, and likely loss of campus housing.
I don’t like Mary because she’s spiteful and mean-spirited (though I don’t wish death on her! I’d like a moment of schadenfreude at her expense soon though.) BUT at the same time, I have a hard time actually -liking- Ruth at any level. I do feel pity for her, but I don’t like her.
In this fight between the meanie and the bully, I hope they both lose.
I think Mary’s actually the only one we’ve seen get physically assaulted by Ruth in the comic, so there might be some pent up hate from that as well.
But yeah, they’re both terrible.
she Threw Billie and placated her against a wall on more than one occasion (err I mean, even before they started living together)
Oh…so….they’re gonna’ start bangin’ each other then?
…start ?
Her and Mary. Ain’t nothin’ like hate sex with a Christian.
I would like to point out that blatant hate speech is slightly more than “mean”…
This.
And on that note, I’m pretty much out of politeness on people who are of a mind to minimize what Mary is doing and has done these last two comics anymore.
I was willing to somewhat stomach it when people were pretending that someone being annoying was a license to violence, but now that Mary has escalated to blackmail, blatant intentional transphobic bullying, and this mass of homophobic vomit and hate?
Yeah, no. Done.
Is this the part where this happens to Mary? Courtesy of everyone here in the comments section?
Because I’d like that. I’d like that alot.
I was willing to extend Mary the benefit of the doubt when she was actually reacting to a legitimate problem but people not being cis or hetero enough for her tastes is not a legitimate problem.
Call me a bit jaded and old, which I admit to both, but I personally had been subjected to a lot of nasty verbal and physical abuse in growing up in the 1980’s as someone both self-identifying as a nerd and whose attitude, dress and behavior was -way- out of the mainstream for the time.
Those people were mean behind my back and straight to my face constantly for years. Far meaner than Mary is being right now. Forgive me if I am not hip to the current hyperbolic zeitgeist.
Really? Gosh, that’s so awful. I had all of that, continual physical and emotional abuse for “being a (homophobic slur)” (brief note on this one, this was in ultra mega fundieville where friend’s parents would casually talk about how they would kill their son if he became a (homophobic slur)) because I wasn’t doing the heterosexual things I was supposed to, and now as an out trans woman, I’ve been discriminated out of jobs, been disowned by a family that wanted to send me to reparative therapy, gotten used to regular instances of people hiding their kid’s eyes, spitting on me, and muttering casual slurs, and oh yeah, had people casually debating/threatening to kill me on two separate occasions, once for the terrible crime of hugging my girlfriend on a street corner but being the “wrong kind” of hot lesbian to harass.
But gawrsh, please tell me more about how you were bullied as a nerd and how this makes you so much above this new fashioned transphobia and its hippity hops and vidjeo games.
I’m sure it’ll be all sorts of illuminating.
Although I risk the stark fist of Willis coming down hard upon me:
You don’t know me. You don’t know my life. You don’t understand the kind of abuse I suffered in my younger years, and the kind of bullshit I deal with every day because of it. I’m not going to play a stupid oneupmanship game with a faceless internet denizen.
This isn’t about your story or my story. This is about how Mary is being a mean person. Full of meanness. Nastiness. Pettiness. Invective deserving of an exasperated smack, even.
From my perspective—and that is what my original response was about anyway—she’s being ‘mean’. She hasn’t even gotten close to the level of Blaine.
Dude, you’re the one who just called hate speech, and I quote, “hyperbolic zeitgeist”.
I”m not trying to one up you. I’m trying to point out that maybe, just maybe, you don’t quite realize how dismissive you are coming off to the experiences of trans women.
When you dismiss the shit that is my daily background radiation as “hyperbolic zeitgeist”, “being mean”, try and put forth your own experiences of bullying as clearly being worse than the experiences of trans women, and so forth, that comes across a very specific way.
You might not mean to come off that way. But you are.
That is my point.
Cerberus is exactly right here. No matter how disruptive (not very) and reckless (enough that it was a bad idea, certainly, but not even close to the physical retaliation she got for it) Carla was being, Mary is so far out of line she couldn’t reach the line with a magical genie wish and an electrified line-reacher. Nerds do not suffer from “hate-speech.” Nerds are not fired from jobs, kept out of housing, and murdered for being nerds. Nerds get called the occasional name and pushed around in middle school. If you live in a cartoon, you may be stuffed into a locker. After you get out of school, you are stereotyped as someone’s boss at a high-tech startup.
I am a white, gay male from a relatively liberal area of the Midwest. I was uncomfortable in high school with the idea of expressing my orientation to people I considered friends. I was afraid to let other boys know I was attracted to them when I was certain of their orientation because I might have been caught out. Years later and in one of the most queer-friendly cities in one of the most queer friendly states the country, I have been afraid that people were about to become violent because they had seen me holding hands or kissing another man.
I am told by friends, if I take public transit to the Gay Pride Festival, that I should make sure to get home before dark because I may be the victim of a hate crime.
In.
Portland.
Oregon.
This place is one of the safest places I could go for being out, and I still fear for my safety if I’m truly out. I still don’t tell my boss at work that my dates are with men because I’m afraid of how that will pan out.
But hey, your experience of being picked on because of nerdiness is totally the same thing as my experience, just like I can totally say that I’ve suffered as much as Cerberus.
(In case you can’t tell, no, I can’t say that. I wish you all the luck in the world, Cerberus. Please stay safe. You deserve so much better than you’ve gotten)
No.
Hate speech is not “mean.”
Hate speech is an act of violence that consciously dehumanizes a person with the weight and pressure of centuries of oppressive social structures backing it up.
That’s not “being mean.” It’s evil. It’s heinous. It’s a thoroughly different level.
I don’t know you, yes – and I don’t want to – but if you don’t want to “play stupid oneupmanship” than you ought’n’t dismiss transphobia as ‘current hyperbolic zeitgeist’ and you damn well ought’n’t try to dismiss hate speech as akin to bullying a ‘non-mainstream nerd.’ Honestly. Different ballparks. Just, totally different levels.
Sincerely, kicked-out-of-her-own-home-disowned-by-family-and-sexually-assaulted-by-two-cops-all-because-of-what-she-is Stephanie
*hugs*
Maybe, just maybe, if you don’t have a certain set of experiences (like, say, not being experienced with being trans), you could listen to people who do have those experiences about what they’re like?
Cuz something tells me that trans people’s lives are a fuckton harder than you’re thinking they are. And that something is that the suicide attempt rate for trans people is 41%. 50% of trans people report being survivors of violence and abuse. 25% are survivors of sexual assault. Trans people make up 16% of all murder victims, despite being only 2% of the general population.
Seriously dude, I was bullied in school. Like, broken bones, can’t turn my back on a full room because I get panic attacks, permanent scars level bullied. So I get that bullying can completely recalibrate your asshole meter and leave you open for further abuse because it doesn’t feel like abuse-abuse relative to the stuff people told you to have a thicker skin about and just tough out. So please keep that in mind when I say you need to sit down, shut up and listen to what these people are telling you. You have no idea how bad they have it, and you have no idea how this sort of intentional and malicious misgendering fits in with the fabric of the background harassment and violence trans people face daily. They do. Listen and you might learn something.
This is the shit I’m trying like hell to spare my son from. I know how hard being everyone’s punching bag and how damaging that can be, but I’m absolutely certain that no matter how bad that was it pales in comparison to what you went through. I wish that never happened to you or anyone else. That’s just terrible.
That’s it. I’m fucking done. I’m out of fucks thanks to you complete jackasses. You know what? I’m a fucking trans woman. I’m a trans womanw ho’s not OUT anywhere that matters in real life, because I’m in fucking georgia, and texas before it, and florida before it, and surviving to be with my wife is kinda the tippy top priority. I grew up as a guy. I grew up as a NERD, in a fairly anti-intellectual place (South Alabama/Northwest Florida, whichever you feel like calling it). You don’t have the slightest fucking idea what you’re talking about.
Nerds don’t face the threat of death for being nerds. Nerds /can/ be targetted by a bullying campaign that can ultimately lead to suicide, but they are WAY down the list compared to, you know, gay and trans kids. People who /actually/ transgress cultural norms, not people whoa re just kinda off super involved with their own tastes (Seriously, Nerds actually have incredibly mainstream values on the whole. Nerd hasn’t been counterculture since the 70s, at LEAST). You think your ‘attitude, dress, and behavior’ was way out of line? Nah, not in the same way. Take it from someone who was in ratty, unfashionable clothes, and also in proper clothes for her gender – it’s not the fucking same. Waitresses can contain their disgust with you. You won’t be denied service. You’re allowed to go on a date. You’ll have automatic respect with most employers in more desirable work, because you know how to present yourself as an intellectual; that’s bad if you want to work in a factory or in an autoshop, sure, but it’s great for most things that are half decent. The worst that’ll happen is some of your coworkers will make some stupid Big Bang Theory jokes in the adult world (which I remind you, Carla’s in).
You will NEVER see a death threat for being a nerd. You will see death threats, because nerds are fucking awful and thinking losing a CoD or Planetside match/zone is sufficient reason to want someone dead, but not to the extent that an out gay or trans person, or a woman, will receive on the net; and that’s from the people who are allegedly so persecuted. You know what actually persecuted groups rarely do? Threaten fucking death and doom, because they’ll catch the ire of the mainstream who actually will fucking kill them.
You know what I promise you don’t understand because of your nerdery? The fear of death, when looking at your wardrobe. You open it up, and you see all nice things, and you know that if you wear them, you are taking a concrete risk that will kill you. Actually, factually, kill you. To say nothing of ‘regular’ physical violence. And while I get the safety of knowing I’ll be in a genuinely, truly safe place in less than a year, that’s you know, fucking later. And I’ve lived with this fear for the last… oh nearly a decade now.
And again, I have the fucking comparison point of experience here. I grew up as a male nerd in an anti-intellectual town. As a /brown/ one in a pretty racist town. It kinda sucked. People were jerks to me, and people made me a pariah among non-nerds. Thank Youkhrist for the geek social fallacies, because frankly without them they probably would have thrown me out too. But I didn’t have to fear being beaten. Even without the webbernets, I still had a good number of friends, and if I were the sort of person to WANT to do things, I could find people to do things with. It was bad, and worse than it needed to be, but it ain’t got shit on being openly queer in the USA – which because of the massive risks, I began to only do when one of us visit (And let me tell you, not having to think about where we’re going because I /know/ it’s safe in Denmark is qualitatively different. Even if I could pass, it’s still two ladies on dates. I had to seriously consider where it would be safe when she visits me).
And yeah, sure. Mary’s ‘just being mean’. By denying Carla’s existence in a fundamental way that is a contributing factor to the /41 fucking percent suicide rate/ among trans people in the USA. That’s ‘just being mean’, right? That’s /just like/ when some dudes say you’re not manly (Even though most of fiction and pretty much /all/ historical ideas of manliness are 100% in the tank for you, the dignified intellectual), right? It sounds kinda similar, so it must be the exact same, and of course I know what I’m talking about, I’m a nerd, we like to look at the history of things.
Fucking HELL, why do I have to share hobbies with you? You idiots need to get the hell out of my interests. Some small number of you were there first, but jesus fuck you’re complete and total assholes who need to go off and learn to be better people.
*so many infinite hugs*
And I’m so glad that you’ll be able to get somewhere safer in the medium term.
And as someone who went to grad school in Denmark and first started exploring outward presentation stuff there, I can say it really was night and day as far as treatment. Though, take that with a grain of salt as I am white and I know that treatment of Trans Women of Color tends to be different everywhere in the world.
Racial politics are completely different in Europe anyway. Like, not ‘everything is fine’, obviously, and I don’t know that I’d say ‘better’ but they are different. Hispanic people don’t have nearly as big a problem there, and before importing racial ideas from USian media in I think the 70s? We were white in Denmark specifically. Immigration barriers based on racism still affect me (Specifically, racism against middle easterners), but the fact that I’m meriken (and so much racial politics is ultimately founded on national identity, at least for Denmark) means I’ll likely be alright-ish. A damn sight better than here, at least.
Thank-you for this.
This is important.
As someone who grew up in a micro-small town in the Panhandle area along the FL/AL state line, please accept my sincere sympathies and condolences.
To be fair, Ruth has ever only been explicitly shown doing bodily harm to three people: Amber’s Douchedad, Mary and Billie. Douchedad and Mary deserved it every time, and she did it to Billie because she wasn’t sure how to convey the fact that she was crushin’ on her.
Onto the threats of physical violence, aside from Billie and Mary (see above reasons), I don’t think she’s actually threatened anyone aside from the initial femur threat at the beginning of the year.
Hm.
I’m sorry but nobody deserves to be physically or physiologically(because her threatening harm is this) abused. Except for Amber’s dad cause fuck that guy.
Mary is shit because she’s close minded and assumes she’s on a higher plane of superiority than everyone because of how she was brought up.
Ruth is shit because she’s an alcoholic who has a position of power over a large group of people even though she herself isn’t fit to lead shit. I mean her whole relationship with Billie just feels like it’s leading up to a fucking suicide pact.
Good thing we have Dina who is always full of hope and cheer. Always.
ALWAYS.
Er, not always.
ALWAYS
L
W
A
Y
S
Nobody, except Carla, apparently. I do not think you grasp the scale of what Mary is saying or doing to her, or attempting to.
This. So so much this.
I know I don’t. She’s said words – horribly hurtful words, but still just words – and people have likened it to physical violence. I’d like to think that it’s a knee-jerk reaction from people who’ve suffered similar verbal attacks simultaneously with physical abuse, but unfortunately, even something as awful as that is looking like wishful thinking.
I don’t understand, and I’m glad I haven’t been through what would be necessary to.
If you want happiness and cupcakes, I suspect a Willis comic is not for you.
“Ruth is shit because she’s an alcoholic.” No. Just no.
Not exactly bodily harm, but she did throw Joyce’s gloves out the window (how she actually got them I don’t know…), and she crashed the dorm party which violated Joyce’s right to privacy. She also dragged Sarah to the floor meeting (which might be considered using force that she was not allowed to do.) Plus, some of her interactions with Sal might be
Now, I could be wrong, but aren’t RAs entitled to check in on dorm parties to make sure there’s nothing shady going on? Like booze?
Remember when Ruth crashed the party, she burst in, then declared “that counts as knocking”, suggesting that she doesn’t have the authority to enter rooms uninvited (but still did so anyways).
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/hypotheses/
I suspect they’d have to follow some sort of “probable cause” justification. Otherwise, you could have an R.A. (who is themselves a fellow student) abusing their authority and just entering rooms to (for example) spy on students.
Uh, not knowing how to express your attraction to somebody doesn’t excuse assaulting people. Especially when you’re in college, not fucking kindergarten. Ruth is a horrible RA, and while I can empathize with her over her depression, the students in her hall shouldn’t have to suffer for it. And Mary is an absolutely vile person, but she didn’t deserve to be slapped for being an asshole about the ding-dong bandit issue. (There are other things I could see slapping her for, like the last to comic strips, but the time she actually DID get slapped was uncalled for.) The only person who actually DESERVED being hit by Ruth was Blaine, because he’s an abusive monster and because Ruth was trying to protect Amber when she did it.
^^^ This. They are both terrible, unlikable people. At least with Ruth, we have seen some back-story and there is an explanation of why she acts out; but that does not excuse her behavior.
Mary, on the other hand… Well there’s nothing there. It is who she is to be a spiteful harridan. I wonder what skeletons she’s hiding.
Never to be seen again if not sarcastic?
Ugh. Mary has actually managed to make me hate her more in these to panels then Ross did in any strip before he pulled out the gun. Hell she’s still on an equal playing field with all of the other straight up villains in this comic.
….I forgot what my Gravetar was because I don’t post here enough. Damn you Willis.
I personally find the irony delicious and hilarious.
Hm, how much trouble can Ruth get in for the Becky thing? While she IS supposed to be on top of things, Becky has been moved around (from Joyce’s room to Billie’s) and intentionally hidden by students who felt sorry for her after the Toedad fiasco. I feel like at most her supervisor would give her a talking to?
Now having a relationship with Billie, THAT can get her fired; but only if Mary has proof. Still, I’m guessing the accusation alone can get her in trouble :/
As much as I hate it, gotta hand it to Mary: she’s created a situation where she gets to spew transphobia either way: if Ruth busts her she’ll tell on Ruth and the R.A. getting fired thing will be a bigger concern for the administration (knowing how colleges handle this sort of thing) than hate speech so she won’t be punished and if Ruth doesn’t do anything because of the threat then Mary gets to go in her merry way as the worst person since Toedad. What a magnificent bastard she is.
Aw crud I just realized why my comments are being moderated…I missed a digit in my email address >_>
Hmm. Well, the only thing I can think of is that it old lend some circumstantial evidence to Mary’s report if Becky is caught, because she is staying in Billie’s room. Therefore, Billie has to have been staying somewhere else. That might be enough “evidence” depending on who is asking the questions. Especially is they find Billies clothes in Ruth’s room. On the other hand, considering what happened with Becky’s dad, they would probably let the issue drop other than asking Becky to leave. Girl was kidnapped at gunpoint on campus, no way the university wants any more bad press from throwing the book at her.
Plus, imagine the possible positive press of letting Becky stay. “University helps kidnapping victim” is a much better headline than “College kicks lesbian kidnapping victim while down”.
It’s not like they never have taken in people that don’t go to IU. Last I knew, they put up a sizable number of refugees made homeless by Huricane Katrina. There were at least some still living in their dorms 5 years later. For all I know, some might still be there.
Can they prove that Billie was not staying in her own room though? Sal is VERY unlikely to rat her out and Ruth could just say that the clothes are hers (size difference aside, I really doubt the investigation would be so thorough as to check the clothing tags).
Unless Billie comes out and admits she has been staying with Ruth, it’s Mary’s words against Ruth’s.
This is a good point.
hm Derek, they’d want to know where Billie was sleeping instead, in that case.
Billie could just say she was sharing a bed like Joyce was originally doing, out of the goodness of her heart or something.
WILL SOMEBODY JUST SICK MIKE ON HER ALREADY?! And I mean Walkyverse Mike who brutalizes people far more than Dumbingverse Mike.
Copied my comment here with my real email address, Willis feel free to delete the repost since I cannot do it
Hm, how much trouble can Ruth get in for the Becky thing? While she IS supposed to be on top of things, Becky has been moved around (from Joyce’s room to Billie’s) and intentionally hidden by students who felt sorry for her after the Toedad fiasco. I feel like at most her supervisor would give her a talking to?
Now having a relationship with Billie, THAT can get her fired; but only if Mary has proof. Still, I’m guessing the accusation alone can get her in trouble :/
As much as I hate it, gotta hand it to Mary: she’s created a situation where she gets to spew transphobia either way: if Ruth busts her she’ll tell on Ruth and the R.A. getting fired thing will be a bigger concern for the administration (knowing how colleges handle this sort of thing) than hate speech so she won’t be punished and if Ruth doesn’t do anything because of the threat then Mary gets to go in her merry way as the worst person since Toedad. What a magnificent bastard she is.
Mary is more than just transphobic. She’s an equal-opportunity offender!
Yeah, she’s a real fucker all right. No wonder Roz is on a hair trigger with anything fundie.
It’s why I’ve pretty much always been on Roz’s side during her conflicts with Joyce, because no matter how superficially nice and polite a fundamentalist may seem they still view you as a lesser human being if you don’t fit perfectly into their little box of acceptable behaviours and identities and you never know when they’re going to drop the veneer of niceness.
Yeah, plus Joyce has consistently shown her worst face with Roz thus making it harder for trust to build, accusing her of trying to recruit her to her witch’s coven and rambling about the importance of angry Gods sending floods to ark builders.
Combine that with suffering Mary day in and day out, and you get a lot of Roz’s “backing away slowly now” interactions with Joyce.
Been commenting for over 2 hours now cerb, might want to take a break.
9 hours*
I swear, if someone tries to say “Roz is just as bad as Mary” after this..
Roz isn’t always nice, and can be a little self-superior, but her motives are good.
Mary is never nice, fuelled by self-superiority, and tries to impose her wants on others.
There’s not much comparison.
You have missed some very disgusting comparisons between the two, friend.
A lot of ‘two sides of the same coin’ stuff.
And here we have Ruth finally getting called on her abusive, irresponsible, and negligent behavior as an R.A., which will be completely ignored and dismissed because Mary said some hurtful things and therefore is never right about anything ever.
Dumbing of Age: “It’s Okay As Long As Someone Is Worse Than Me!”TM
“some hurtful things”…
“some hurtful things”
“some hurtful things”
Would you like a second to rephrase a few things?
Don’t take the bait. Or feed the trolls.
But the cyanide will get lonely if it doesn’t find a home.
Transphobia is a horrible, horrible thing, and I apologize if I appeared to be diminishing the effects of Mary’s words, as that was not my intention. I was merely expressing regret that this is the closest we have come to Ruth’s behavior catching up to her and it looks like it’s going to be brushed aside. No offense was meant.
I appreciate that. Thank you.
Um. Yes it was. You meant offense. You just insulted everyone who’s been upset by Mary’s literal hate speech, because you care more about some other issue, and you think we should too.
So, no. Apology not accepted. Reconsider your life.
Actually most of what she’s being called out on has nothing to do with Ruth’s “abusive” behavior. Much of what Mary was calling her out on (‘defiling a cheerleader’) is nothing but homophobic bunk.
Ruth is not a good R.A. She is abusive, but that wasn’t one of the points Mary brought up.
Having a relationship with one of her charges is an abuse of power, homophobia aside. Mary was referencing a concrete example of her abusive nature, and (because she’s Mary) paired it with her own homophobia.
Did not think I could hate Mary any more than I already did. I was wrong. I’m so angry, I almost want to cry. With yesterday’s and today’s update… just…. ughhhhhhh. How can you be THAT DESPICABLE? And yet I know that people like this really exist, which makes this even more chilliing. Just. Ughhhhhhhhhhhh. I HATE HER SO MUCH.
She’s an amazing villain, because she is the combined id of the ideology of the dominant. She’s the living embodiment of every microaggression and casual bigotry, the threat that comes out of nowhere and then gets away with it because it trades on power and privilege.
And it’s why I would hope every last person who was defending her in this arc looks hard at exactly the type of person they’ve been defending and how awful she really is.
No I’m sorry but I disagree, Mary is an awful, horrible, nasty person yes but speaking only for myself I was judging her and Carla on the situation they got themselves into not the people they are
So do I think Carla is to blame for the situation? Not entirely no but she has to carry some of the blame (as does Mary)
But do I think Carla deserves or is to blame for what came out of Marys mouth in the last strip? Absolutely not, there is not excuse nor provocation for that and I hope Mary gets punished however they do that at the college
Carla was being moderately annoying, and violated a dorm policy. Mary destroyed property (an actual crime) and is spouting hate speech. Carla is not the responsible party here and your victim-blaming is pretty despicable. Every character is responsible for her own actions, and Mary is entirely in the wrong here.
Had she, say, reported Carla for skating indoors, and thus gotten her in trouble, that would have been one thing, and Carla would have been in large part to blame, but Mary’s decision to cause property damage, let alone spout transphobia, could not have been predicted by and cannot be blamed on Carla.
Ok so first up Carla was skating in the halls, Mary asked her to stop and Carla continued, Mary then tried lying in the corridor to stop Carla and Carla then jumped over Mary.
So at this junction its Carla thats making the situation worse and I’m 55-45 on Marys side in this situation (and only this situation)
Mary squirts glue on the floor and stops Carla skating, I disagreed with this as Mary was destroying college property and now (to me) its 50-50 because Marys lost her moral high ground
Carla can’t go to an authority about her skates because shes in the wrong (and she knows it) so she gets her revenge on Mary by stomping up and down and making Mary angry (I’m still 50-50)
Mary takes off down the hall and Carla is quite pleased with the reaction because it did look like she wanted a reaction (and I don’t blame her because they skates were probably expensive) so up to this point I’m 50-50 over who to apportion blame to
However the next strip where Mary opens her mouth is completely inexcusable and theres no justification for it at all
If Mary hadn’t been an asshole who shouldn’t be living in a group environment, she’d have never known Carla was breaking any rules.
Making noise in the hallway is not against the rules, except for certain times, which the middle of the day a month into the school year is not.
Skating in the hallway is against the rules, because it’s a safety hazard.
Like lying in the hallway, or gunking it up with glue – and Carla was only being safety hazard through carelessness, Mary was doing it deliberately, and with actual malicious intent to injure.
all of this
That is so true, she’s like the worst kind of internet comment section come to life. So filled with hate and finally she feels like she has a platform for it to let it all out and this wall of abuse just comes out.
She is the worst kind of person and yeah, a good villain, but not one people are gonna root for (at least not sane people). I always like a good morally grey villain you secretly kiiiiinda root for, you know, like Kylo Ren lol. But Mary is actually beyond that. She’s just evil and full of hate and just thinking about her makes me aggressive, so I’m gonna stop now :p
Has anyone been defending her since yesterday’s strip went up? Because hey, that was indefensible. Today, while someone does need to stand up to Ruth, but it happening in one of the cases where she’s doing her job right is a sick joke.
However, earlier in the arc, none of this had happened. And frankly, at the start of this arc there was a lot of the idea of ‘it’s ok to harass someone who wants to be left alone if they’re a bad person’ which is a horrid thing to argue.
Yes. But they’ve mostly been being deleted.
That’s disappointing. Wish it was a surprise.
Also, to everyone who is taking this particular comic to whine about “how you couldn’t have known at the time” and “back then, super justified, blah blah blah…”. Yeah, no, Mary’s awfulness has been on display for awhile. Mary’s disproportionality and unreasonableness has been on display in literally every appearance she has had.
This is a new peak, but it really shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone who was previously defending her.
But it was really easy for a lot of people to do so.
That, unfortunately, says something.
Honestly, I was surprised anyone would ever try defending Mary after she went after Dorothy that one time. That was, what, three years in real life time? How did that not cement for people that she was a horrible person? How has yesterday’s comic not completely sealed that fact? I just don’t understand people sometimes.
Well, like you said, it was THREE YEARS in real life time. I haven’t reread the series in at least a year, and the slow updates make it easy to forget things. I didn’t remember her going after Dorothy at all. All I remembered was that I dislike her, and that she’s vaguely smug and way too pushy about her religion. Which is bad, but not something I’m going to take into consideration when she literally hadn’t mentioned religion at all during this little feud with Carla. The whole thing seemed like a clear-cut case of “Bugs Bunny vs Daffy/ Feuding Neighbors that you see in comedy shows, and honestly, I thought Willis had just put it in here for comic relief after the Toedad thing. So, while I really didn’t like Mary, I thought it was ridiculous that everybody was arguing about who’s more “in the wrong”. Because they were both acting horrible, albeit in a hilarious way.
Now, as soon as she said what she said to Carla, I didn’t care that “Carla started it”. Nothing excuses what Mary did. She is a disgusting person, and the transphobia and blackmail and calling lesbians “perverts” just cements that for me. But it’s ridiculous to say that people who were defending Mary BEFORE that happened are somehow transphobic or horrible people. Most of them weren’t defending her because “Carla is trans and that makes it right to bully her.” Most people were defending her because “Mary is acting like an asshole and Carla is acting like an asshole. They’re both being awful, and neither of them seemed to have gotten hurt, so why waste time trying to blame just one of them?”
Even Joyce called her a b-word, I meam come on
Willis, you should make a Mary Tshirt thats says:
“Even Joyce called her a B-word”
title of their sex tape
wait , wat?
I have not defended Mary since she gave the stink-eye to a 12 year old for being Roz’s sister. I’m not sure that I defended her before then, either. In many ways Mary is too much like my own fundie sister for my comfort(racist, homophobic, anti-abortion, believes every word in the bible is true. )
It is an odd position when your most bigoted character does, at the same time, have a good point. Things at that wing are on the brink of falling apart.
Takes me back to Dolores Umbridge. Specifically, a horrible and near-unforgivable character; but generally, that school really did need an inspector, or at least someone to make an effort to reduce the yearly body count.
I can think of about 30 people and/or ‘bots that are just like Umbridge in that sense. Namely, the two that come to mind are:
Galvatron. He’s technically right about our heritage, honor, and Nova’s intent for the Cybertronian race and whatnot, but he’s still an imperialistic jackass about it.
The Templars from Assassin’s Creed. They’re right in that our world is a mess, but the complete removal of free will is NOT by ANY MEANS the solution. (Cough cough, sound familiar?)
Funny, ain’t it?
You. I like you.
Things at the wing aren’t at the brink of falling apart at all.
What does that even mean in this context?
“Oh no! The Lesbians are running amock, burning everybody’s roommate agreement forms and renumbering the rooms”
Yes. Damn lesbians. Next they’ll be nuking our closets and stealing our dinosaur girls.
But , but… If you collect every Dinosaur Girl….
( I cant think of a punchline for that Joke, someone please finish it for me )
“Clever girl…”
This is a beautiful comment.
Well, rules are being broken left and right because Ruth is a decent person but a shit RA. I dunno if falling apart is the right expression but the dean is going to be really unamused if he comes down to take a look.
There’s only a couple major rules being broken here.
There’s Becky who’s crashing here longer than she’s allowed. Hurting nobody beyond the fact that she’s arguably distracting Joyce from her studies. I wouldn’t say it’s a major point against Ruth’s observational skills, since the whole community is working in tandem to keep Becky a secret from her, and it’s still only been a couple weeks or so without Ruth noticing.
Then there’s Ruth’s own relationship with one of the dorm residents. Obviously that’s a problem in multiple ways and it reflects on Ruth a lot, but it’s just the one thing. Wouldn’t say Mary “Has a point” where that’s concerned either. She seems to feel that the relationship has distracted Ruth from her R.A. duties, when from what we’ve seen Billie has actually been pushing Ruth to be a more active R.A. I don’t think that a single Ruth would necessarily have caught on to the Becky situation any quicker.
Outside of these two things, the rules being broken are all just normal young adults goofing off like you’d find in any dorm. Carla gets a little noisy in the noon hours. Dorothy has a drink at a party. Not indicative of the dorm descending into anarchy or anything.
Becky has been illegally staying there, and their RA is a drunk mess with a history of violently assaulting students. Not to mention there are, you know, rules prohibiting staff and students from getting into relationships, no matter what their sexuality.
That’s far from chaos, mayhem, cats and dogs living together…
mass hysteria!
(someone had to)
Fair enough, perhaps the expression was a bit hyperbolic. But I maintain that Ruth is much closer to losing her job than she was before.
A) Mary does not have a point because is not complaining about anything that’s an actual problem. She doesn’t care that Ruth is dating a student, she cares that it’s a female student.
B) Umbridge not only wasn’t trying to reduce the body count, she made things worse by preventing students from learning to defend themselves.
The sudden turn to rampant transphobia represented in this story arc and defended by a small subsection of the associated internet community here sure has me feeling suicidal.
Poor Carla.
:c I’m sorry. I hope something absolutely lovely happens in the next 24 hours to balance it out.
I wish I had a link for some cute kitten and or puppy pictures to help lighten the mood, but I don’t 🙁 and it is very depressing and just…disappointing that a subsection of the community here is defending the transphobia.
Baby Penguins
Kitten therapy
*hugs, so many hugs*
You are valuable and wonderful and you are not alone.
And if things get crisis level:
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/
http://www.thetrevorproject.org/pages/get-help-now#lifeline
You’re a really good person, and I’m glad the vulnerable members of this community have you looking out for them. Thanks for being you.
My reply with resources is stuck in moderation, so I want to quickly say, please stay with us, Elana. You are an awesome person and you are wanted here on Earth.
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/
Yeah this whole thing took a pretty fast nose-dive from “Loony Tunes-esque shenanigans” into “Oh right, a significant portion of the population views me as subhuman I had almost managed to forget that.” Hopefully next strip will involve an emergency femurectomy.
Elena,
Hey, some of us support you unconditionally!! OK?
Your sexuality and gender are special and rare skills, TALENTS, and gifts.
Its valuable , and you here for a potential purpose , determination to share those with us.
( or not, if you so choose ) .
Its not just me saying so, Its in the Literal Dictionary!!Seriously :
*Bent*
… adj 1. not-straight, Deviating from a straight line: , curved, warped
adj2 On an unwavering course of action:
decided, determined, fixed, intent, resolute, set.
…determined to do or have something.
synonyms: intent on, determined on, set on, insistent on, resolved on, hell-bent on; committed to, single-minded about.
“he’s bent on going to law school”
( seems positive and accurate to me )
Noun, 1.
a natural talent or inclination.
disposition, orientation, leaning, partiality, penchant, predilection, predisposition, proclivity, proneness, propensity, squint, tendency, trend, turn. inclination, instinct,
( sound familiar yet? )
noun 2: An innate capability:talent, gift, flair, aptitude, facility, skill, capacity; aptness, faculty, flair, genius, gift, head, instinct, knack, talent, turn.
( WHOA, its like a full-n Pride parade )
The haters are just ignorant people who have been oddly warped by society to have terrible taste. LIke if an infant was locked in a room for 20 years with nothing but a Sears catalog from 1977 .
( Yes , the dictionary also says “corrupt” — but after the 101 other nice things, we can just throw out that one slight as queerphobic bias.
Thats like saying: ‘Nyaa, Nyaa, I dont like your determined , innate talent , capacity, flair , genius and gifts. ‘
Totes, it doenst even make sense with all those other compliments. Which is exactly what the haters are saying. The dictionary SAYS so .
Elena, At the end of the day, you can believe your supporters AND the Dictionary of the English Language. ( or the people with bad taste.)
I guess its just my BENT.. to remind you
Adam
I’m truly sorry you feel this way. And though I can’t do much to help, even though I don’t know you, I support you in your struggle, and can only wish it wasn’t one. And please remember the truth in what you said, it’s a small subsection of the internet, consisting of individuals that are either bigoted or ignorant, most of us support you, and always will. We just need to be more vocal about it.
Don’t let the dumbshites drag you down.
No one is born into this world without a reason. You have a job to do. Think back to when you were little. Do you remember your first dream?
Things do need to be put in order, but Ruth would be better served to try to keep the noise down instead of absolute silence.
And Mary needs to have something terribly unpleasant happen to her. Like having to sit through beginning accounting classes.
Or to be forced to change majors into accounting – no, accounting education.
Ruth is an absolutely terrible RA who deserves to lose her job yesterday.
What Mary deserves is to be devoured alive by a pack of angry housecats.
Don’t feed cats garbage like that. D:
What did cats ezver do to you 😐
Nyeah!
As much as I appreciate the character development that turned Ruth from a violent monster to a rounded human being with distinguishable flaws and merits…
I kinda want her to punch Mary through a wall and then comment: “You make some valid points. I’ll look into those things. Thank you for bringing them to my attention.”
“I’ll report my findings when I give your eulogy.”
See, why hate Joyce when we have Mary?
Because it’s possible to hate more than one bigoted fundamentalist at a time. Thankfully Joyce has done a lot of growing and has largely moved past that though so now I can focus the full intensity of my loathing onto Mary.
I’d argue that hating Joyce even early on missed the entire point of the comic. She’s a good person who grew up in a cult-like environment, basically. Once exposed to the real world, circumstances and her goodness as a person overrode her programming.
I am a former fundie. I have homophobic (which in this case I am using to include transphobic) friends. I do not hate them. I do not think they are bad people. They just grew up being told that homophobia was the right thing to do.
Mary is different. She would be horrible even without the Fundamentalism. Ignore the fact that she professes to be a Christian. And then look at the stuff she’s done that has nothing to do with Christianity. It’s still awful.
Hate Fundamentalism all you like. I do, too. But hating the people? That’s dumb. It misses the point that good people can do bad things given the right circumstances.
If you just treat them as evil, you just become the enemy, and they’ll never learn.
You aren’t the target of their bigotry so it’s a lot easier for you to say “Oh, they’re not bad people.” It’s a lot harder to say that about people who treat you as subhuman and deride you for having the audacity to even exist. It’s a lot easier to excuse evil behaviour when it doesn’t impact you personally. Why exactly are minorities obligated to have sympathy and forbearance for their attackers?
Both sides of the spectrum can be bigots. Bisexual white female. I have been called a “fruit fly” by both sides of the spectrum. I got the crap kicked out of me- broken nose and left arm- from the homophobes. I had my trans friend spit in my eye and tell me I was a liar and a sell-out when I married a man, whom I love, dated for 5 years before marriage, and have been married to for 5 years. Said trans ex-friend won’t speak to me to this day. I have had people loudly praying for my soul when I came out by going to prom with a girl. I have been called a ‘skank’ and a ‘slut’ by the so-called Christians I went to Catholic school with. I have had the LGBT community tell me I must not actually be bi if I married a man…despite the long-term relationships I was in with women. It’s automatically assumed that I’m a slut who’ll bang anything that moves, since I ‘have no standards’, ‘would date anything’…despite the fact that my shortest relationship was a year.
It’s amazing how the so-called “minorities” will attack those who are supposedly their own. Just being in the minority doesn’t give you moral superiority. It doesn’t matter whether you’re straight, LGBT, Christian, or atheist- if someone isn’t EXACTLY. LIKE. YOU. you’re suspect.
Okay, except minorities aren’t defined by an ideology that promotes bigotry. Yes, they can be bigoted assholes like any other person but it’s not necessary to be part of that category. And if they ARE bigoted assholes then go ahead and hate them I don’t expect you to have sympathy and forbearance for their mistreatment of you either. Yeah, there is a disturbing amount of biphobia in the LGBT community and you have zero obligation to put up with any of it or be understanding about it. You are absolutely justified in thinking a biphobe is a shitty person. At no point did I say minorities are incapable of bigotry all I said was they do not have to extend patience or understanding to bigots,
I suppose. Everyone reacts strongly about their own pain. I guess I just reacted to your line about “Why exactly are minorities obligated to have sympathy and forbearance for their attackers?” It’s more, I wanted to say that “sometimes the minorities ARE the attackers” because I was hyper-sensitive. It seemed like some of the commenters above were saying ‘your pain isn’t as bad as my pain’ to other commenters, which is asinine. What seems like a minor thing to you may be a very tender and sore spot for them. I was reacting more to the tone of the entire thread than to your specific post- I had been thinking about the whole theme of conversation in general.
My mother-in-law is in denial and thinks her son ‘saved’ me with his penis. My family is largely homophobic. I guess I reacted more strongly because I want to say “Oh, they’re not bad people- they’ve just been taught bad things” like trikly. I like to think that bigots can still be good people, can be taught. I like to try and have that forbearance. When you said that trikly is ‘easy for her to say, she hasn’t been discriminated against’, I wanted to say that maybe people who have been discriminated against can learn to try and feel sympathy for the attacker- that they are good people with disgusting beliefs.
I am bad at this.
No, you aren’t. I understood what you were trying to say because you said it very well.
Although I personally cannot identify with the struggle you went through, as I am a straight male, I know and am friends with a few bisexual women. One in particular went through a very similar situation when she entered into a serious relationship with another woman a few years after we had broken up and decided we were better as friends. I was one of the few people in her life that didn’t discriminate and spew hateful things at her. To this day she tells me that I was her best friend through those years and I am extremely proud of her today. Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope it helps others.
Because otherwise they wouldn’t *want* to understand, or whatever. Alguna mierda por defender el matar de personas transgeneras, intentional or no.
Mary, you’re a hündun!
Heh, clever percussionist.
Ah, geeze. I mean, I know this is gonna backfire on Mary in a major way in the end, but also it’d just be anticlimatic if Ruth managed to put an end to this right here and now. So presumably blackmail is gonna allow Mary to do her thing unimpeded for a while, and that’s gonna suck.
So Mary is lawful evil yea. Does she think she’s up against lawful neutral? Cos I’d put Ruth at chaotic something. I really don’t think they play by each others rules. That’ll go bad for someone.
I’d say chaotic neutral trying to act lawful good.
She’s more Neutral Evil I’d say. She has no ideological issue with following rules she just disregards them when it suits her interests more not to follow them and she’s just as willing to follow and even enforce them when it’s to her benefit.
Who, Ruth or Mary? Because blackmail.
Ruth is neutral evil. Mary is pretty lawful evil though even with the blackmail. The thing about lawful (in the alignment sense) is that it doesn’t necessitate the law in question be the law of the land it just means they adhere pretty strictly to a code of conduct of some description.
Lawful neutral follows the laws whether they agree with them or not. Neutral evil twists laws to their own purposes to hurt people. Mary is the latter.
Ruth is chaotic neutral. Tear the world down because there’s no hope.
That’s lawful evil in a nutshell. Lawful evil has rules and it supports the preservation of order. Mary is very big on rules and order she doesn’t have the flexibility of neutral evil.
Ruth is not chaotic. She doesn’t have an ideological opposition to order or rules she follows or breaks them as it suits her rather than based on any particular belief in them as inherently bad or good. She is flexible when it comes to her approach to rules and thus she is neutral on the law/chaos axis.
Ruth is true-neutral, I’d say, though the typical nine don’t really express the depth of the characters. Maybe she’s rage-depressed-neutral.
Joyce is lawful-good, but the laws are becoming a problem for her. Becky is neutral-good or chaotic-good. Mike is chaotic evil.
I’m inclined to agree. Going by the nine-alignment system, I interpret evil as being about self-interest and disregard for the life and dignity of sapient beings, so Ruth is Neutral at best.
Self-interest isn’t inherently bad, mind you. If a selfish individual is smart enough to avoid being a dick in the interests of not reaping the consequences, so much the better.
What distinguishes Neutral from Evil and Good in the Traditional Nine? I would personally place self-interest as Neutral with Evil being more with intent to harm others, but I keep seeing things that say self-interest falls under Evil. What characteristics go with Neutral?
My understanding is that Good people want what’s best for the world regardless of the cost to themselves, Evil people want what’s best for themselves (and/or their close allies) regardless of the cost to the world, and Neutral people prioritize themselves or their friends and families in a crisis, but will try to make the world a better place when those interests aren’t in immediate danger.
Most people are Neutral, so the distinguishing factor between a utopia and a dystopia is whether most people feel secure enough to accept the risk of acting charitably on a routine basis.
Am I wrong or was yesterday’s comic the first titled with a word not in the strip itself?
For one, there’s “averse” back in Walking With Dina.
Mary needs her ass beaten. Stupid fundies suck.
It’s overly simplistic to blame this strictly on fundamentalism. Mary is a monster, plain and simple, her fundamentalism is just window dressing she uses to justify her monstrous behavior.
This strip demonstrates it very well. She might claim she’s only looking out for “christian values” (for certain definitions of values), but she wasn’t the least bit interested in voicing her objections, she saved them up so she could use them as leverage. From a religious standpoint, she’s not an apostle speaking out against evil, she’s one of the pharisees deciding to stone a prostitute to death to win an argument.
God is the furthest thing from her mind here.
This.
This is where Joyce needs to have just arrived home from class to see this, and steps in to slap that bongo-ass grin off Mary’s face before Ruth has to.
Because I DARE anyone in authority to get Joyce in trouble for it after what she’s been through (that they know of). If someone takes the time to explain the situation with Becky, and Mary’s words about Carla, to Leslie on the side, conveniently leaving out Ruth and Billie, Leslie would probably be able to vouch for emotional instability brought on by witnessing triggering hate speech. Joyce isn’t manipulative enough to think that far ahead, but she has some friends who might be.
And for the love of gods, no one tell Sarah about this shit going down.
The Baseball Bat of Justice yearns for blood.
as do the rest of us
It has a +10 against assholes.
That sounds horribly unbalanced if DoA operates on d20 rules, though I do have a soft spot for d100 systems.
…great, now I want to stat the cast for Dark Heresy and Pathfinder.
I mean did you see how fast it wrecked Ryan?
Sarah would get popcorn out. She likes lording her detachment from drama over people. That doesn’t make her a bad person, though. It’s just sad.
She likes lording her detachment from drama, but she’s also way too attached to the idea of “playing by the rules.” She tried discouraging Becky from staying from the start; this will just be more fuel to her “told you so” fire. “Oh, look, not only did I tell you so, but it ruined a bunch of other lives too, just like I knew it would.” Her level of pessimism isn’t really helpful at all in situations like this.
What . . . ? Sarah’s main argument seemed to be, before Joyce cut her off, that this wasn’t a sustainable solution. And she was, and is, RIGHT. SHe tries to not care, but in the end, she’ll do the right thing. Just like she did at the end of book one, and protected Joyce even though she said that she would wait and let what happen happen, so she could ‘I told you so’ after.
Considering this preview panel it could happen.
http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/130749256667/january-25-2016
Walky: “Man, if we happen come across some bigot I’m gonna’ be so mad.”
Joyce: “…well that was spontaneous.”
The best way I can see this going is to call her bluff. Take it up with the manager. Let things play out as it will. All parties will be at fault: Mary for destroying property, Ruth for abuse of her RA duties, and Carla for disrupting the floor. Becky may or may not be kicked out.
But the thing is that Ruth, Carla and Becky have a larger support group to lean on, and Mary has no one tangible to rely on. She will never receive support from her peers, not even in her darkest hour. One day she will regret making the world her enemy.
Pretty sure the worst case scenario for Ruth is just that she’s not allowed to be RA anymore.
Then presumably they’d bring in some new RA who couldn’t be blackmailed as easily.
Don’t get the impression she really needs this position or anything. Even if she does, Ruth has that self destructive streak anyway.
wonder if Ruth would lose her housing if she’s dropped from RA duty.
She could lose her housing and/or part of the money she’s using for tuition and/or living. Our RAs got free housing, a bunch of free meals, and a small stipend to spend on whatever.
Joyce. Joyce should be the new RA.
That’s probably the last thing she wants.
Sarah would make a good RA (probably), but that’s also the last thing she’d want.
Generally the people who’d be ideal for a position of authority are the kind of people who don’t want a position of authority.
That’s true.
SARAH FOR RA i feel like it’d be a good experience for her maybe
So for this one comic can we not talk about the parts of Ruth’s character? Especially without noting how Mary is 110% in the wrong? I mean I can see why someone wouldn’t like her but….time and place.
No… but… it’s fraught. For a lot of individuals like me, this type of transphobia and homophobia is part of our daily background radiation, so comments that try and echo her garbage will carry that will tend to carry that with them, because, well, why was that the thing you found most worthy of commenting on there?
There’s a social context there that colors statements in the same way that someone talking about how unsafe it is for people to be walking home late at night becomes really callous and fucked if it is in the discussion thread of an article on sexual assault.
Yeah, context matters.
Like, continuing from Cerberus’ sexual assault analogy: as a survivor of sexual abuse, abuse and harassment, I get very fucking edgy when people start talking “safety tips,” “personal responsibility,” “risk management,” and the importance of self-defense when the topic is rape. Because it brings to mind all the victim-blaming I’ve experienced throughout the years – from the school I went to, from my parents, from other kids at school, etc. Because, context means there’s the unspoken, or sometimes spoken outright, implication that sexual assault victims bring it on ourselves. “If you don’t want to be raped…” “If you want to be safe…” “Why didn’t you just…?” “I don’t get why they don’t…”
I could go on.
Talking about trans people’s “contribution” to harassment etc they face (which is what focusing on Carla’s behavior after Mary starts being a transphobic ass) or non-het people’s “contribution” to their harassment (talking about Ruth’s behavior after Mary issued homophobic threats) is pretty much exactly analogous to talking about a rape victim’s “contribution” to their assault.
Which is a thing that happens, often directly to the face of a rape victim when the topic is their own assault (at least in my experience, anyway).
http://i.imgur.com/1WmuELA.png
You opened the floodgates. Now I can’t stop drawing junk.
my hero <3
Man, that comment is going to disappoint people who only think of the word “junk” as a euphemism and nothing else.
With all this drawings you could create your own comic! Though, there might be some problems with the copyright.
Dis is pretty good. Love Ruth there.
Just squeezing in (since comments were closed) to say thanks for clarifying yesterday that the previous hints that have been dropped about Carla. I went back over everything and did I ever feel like an oblivious idiot for needing to ask. You were right – strongly hinted at! I was amazed I missed it. Appreciate you taking the time to explain.
Also LOVE that sketch, Yotomoe. Their expressions are priceless.
Part of me wishes this would happen just because I’m positive Mary would have no idea what to do with that response.
Yesss
…Mary is Queen Bongo.
Carla always came across as “Rowdy lady with amazing legs” to me. And thus, she shall remain in my pov.
No she’s not.
A circus would have clowns.
Hey now, let’s not pretend Carla is a saint just because Mary is vile. She really did pick that fight and followed her around to keep harassing her. Did she deserve THAT comment in response? No, but she was clearly trying to get some kind or rise out of her — just not one that actually hurt.
To be honest, while I think Mary is scum for reaching for that kind of a blow, I don’t really feel all that much more sympathy for Carla than I would for someone who tried to start a fist fight with someone who secretly had a knife in their pocket.
Well that got disconnected from the comment it was replying to. Seems a bit more harsh without the accusation of bigotry towards someone else pointing out that Carla started it that it was in reply to.
Mary didn’t tell Carla her face was ugly, she called her a man. Stop pretending that slurs and oppressive statements are just mean words.
See? This is what I’m talking about. I already said that Mary’s behavior was inexcusable, but that in no way makes Carla nothing but an innocent victim here, and pointing that out does not make me a bigot nor Mary’s supporter.
You know that not all conflicts have to have a “good guy,” right? Carla is still a jerk who sought out that confrontation. Mary sinking to a whole level below her doesn’t change that. You don’t get a free pass on behavior just for suffering prejudice, especially not after the fact.
Carla didn’t seek out a thing. She kept skating when Mary went on a power trip. Then Mary committed battery. Them Carla confronted her about it, and Mary started in with the hate speech. Skating is not a targeted act. Mary faced no harm, except to her ego.
“Carla didn’t seek out a thing.”
What do you call hopping after Mary, then?
Not seeking out the confrontation, because the confrontation was well underway by then.
At first, she just wanted to enjoy her new skates.
Confronting her about it. Like I just said.
Incidentally, confronting people who have literally committed battery is not “seeking conflict.”
You say you think it’s inexcusable but you keep trying to make Carla responsible for it, comparing it to someone starting a fist fight.
Carla is not more responsible for having transphobia thrown in her face just because she was breaking a rule earlier. This idea that someone being the victim of bigotry is unsympathetic because they aren’t perfect is ridiculous.
You have just literally invoked “the fallacy of the innocent victim”
Its a major trope of bigotry. That you are ( accidentally , out of ignorance ? )
invoking Bigoted tropes ought to give you pause .
Carla doesnt need to be a newborn baby to be worthy of protection against transphobia in her home
I never said she wasn’t. But protection does not equal a free pass to act however she wants with no consequences either. Both should be punished in a just world.
Perfect-Victim fallacy,
False-equivalence fallacy and now
Just-world fallacy .
You can just add : “all have sinned before his glory”
and youll be quoting Mary.
tell you what, we wont pretend: “Hey now, let’s not pretend Carla is a saint just because Mary is vile.” because its unnecessary, insulting and absurd.
Guess what, you are clearly “not a saint” either.
People dont need to be Imaginary Perfect Holy Relics to need protection from bigots.
“She really did pick that fight”
How dare the Trans Girl innocently skate quietly on the rug ?
“and followed her around to keep harassing her”
No, she followed her to make her responsible for her property damage.
Innocently skating down the hallway = “tried to start a fist fight with someone who secretly had a knife in their pocket’ ?
Please seek Professional help.
Under “Check your Privilege” in the dictionary, it now says “See also Valdrax”
Why are you getting personal and whitewashing Carla’s behavior? You seem to have decided one of the sides is unforgivable, and so everything the other side does must be. That’s not logical nor just. Both are jerks, and both should be condemned, albeit not necessarily equally. There’s no point in taking sides.
Don’t put Carla up on a pedestal just because she’s trans. Demanding special treatment for her ill behavior because of her status is the very definition of “privilege.” She should be judged on her actions and not what genitals she was born with — and her actions were bratty, childish, and took clear joy from bothering her neighbor.
Carla being wrong does not make Mary right. Mary being wrong does not make Carla right. The world is not black and white. It’s possible for two people to both be wrong without declaring them a moral zero-sum equivalent.
So… Arguing with people is not about who can use the most buzzwords. You have to understand them. And you really clearly don’t know what we mean when we say “privilege.” Or, for that matter, “whitewashing.” And possibly “zero-sum,” I’m not sure.
Mary crosses a line
/gets on soap box
Ugh @ people still saying stuff like Carla is to blame or this is all because Mary wanted some quiet time to study! NO IT IS NOT. Yes yes, ok, Carla was being incosiderate and a bit annoying, as you just sometimes ARE when you’re an 18/19 year old college kid, but then Mary not only COMPLETELY OVERREACTED by damaging Carla’s property and endangering Carla’s health by tripping her up with glue, no THEN SHE GOES ON TO SAY THE MOST VILE TRANSPHOBIC AND HOMOPHOBIC TRASH you can possibly imagine.
How, HOW, does anyone deserve to be deliberately tripped up, have their property damaged and have vile abuse and hate speech directed at them just for being a bit annoying!? No one deserves this. No matter what they’ve done or not done. Period. Mary is actually committing several crimes here (def. endangerment and hate speech) and her behavior CAN NOT be defended by anyone who is actually a decent person. Sorry. But that’s just true. NO MATTER what you think of Carla (or Ruth for that matter, she doesn’t deserve this either!), Mary is so far out of line, so far outside of any kind of decent moral human behavior, there is just no coming back from this. Just. Mary defenders, man. They fucking GET TO ME.
*exhales*
/steps down from soap box
This. Mary defenders are straight up victim blaming and it is disgusting.
The really problem with defending her is Mary didn’t have to escalate, she could of grabbed some headphones and turned her music up super loud. Carla woulda probably of been gone pretty quick anyhow.
The real problem with defending her is she’s a total scumbag.
No no, 99% scumbag. 1% squinty judge eyes.
1% squinty judgy scumbag eyes.
I’m not sorry.
Hostile actions will get hostile responses. Carla knew she was breaking the rules and knew at least one person was bothered by it, so she lost the 100% victim status when she decided to stay and provoke a conflict instead of going outside where she could carry on having fun without issues. You’d think a rebel would like to be left alone. I’d be on her side if she genuinely thought nobody cared and suddenly got attacked, or if she was skating outside and Mary tried to enforce some made up rule like not going over a certain speed.
The fact that Mary then tries to humiliate Carla or threaten Ruth is just her general ugliness bubbling to the surface, but it doesn’t change the previous situation where Person A is in their room studying (despite claims that it’s a banal thing to get upset about, this is college, studying is or should be kind of a big deal) while Person B is determined not to let that happen because I’m bored and you will entertain me whether you want it or not. I don’t support Mary’s actions in this strip or the previous one but getting increasingly frustrated with a dismissive neighbour who tells you to call the police while they keep doing the thing you asked them to stop doing until the point where you want to break stuff is something I can relate to.
Listen, I understand getting frustrated. Everyone gets frustrated. People who are making a ruckus when you just want your peace and quite can be annoying as FUCK. I am not in any way disputing any of that. I am not in any way defending Carla’s actions.
What I *am* saying is that Mary 100% overreacted and took it to a level that was endangering Carla’s health and safety and then she verbally abused her in yesterday’s and today’s strips.
‘Hostile actions will get hostile responses’ is a bullshit argument. If someone is annoying you, even if they’re annoying you REALLY BADLY, that is *no excuse* to harm them, detroy their property and unleash hate speech at them. NO EXCUSE. And if you, actual you, in real life, don’t see that, then I don’t know what to say. Do you regularly physically and emotionally harm people who annoy you? I am guessing you don’t. So why are you defending it?
People will cheer Ruth on if the next strip consists of her repeatedly piledriving Mary and I don’t think this means you guys piledrive people often in real life, so I don’t see why that’s a factor.
And to reiterate, I don’t think Carla’s behavior justifies Mary behavior here, I just don’t think your role in a fight is diminished because the other guy ended it with a low blow.
I for one would never – and have never – advocate for physical violence from anyone directed at anyone. If Ruth punches Mary, Ruth is out of line for many, many reasons and also commits a criminal offence. I would hope people in the comments would see it the same. I know it can be satisfying in fiction to see an evil person get punched, but I hope with all that I can muster that Ruth does not succumb to this urge and that it doesn’t happen. Again, I am also not saying Ruth is perfect. She is an alcoholic with major anger issues and probably should not be an RA. But she also does not deserve any of the hate speech Mary says to her here. But I promise you, if Ruth punches Mary, I would not defend Ruth. Ever.
Also, there’s a difference between ‘low blow’ and hate speech.
It’s good that you’re against violence, but if you look around you see posts suggesting fun things for Ruth to do to Mary. I mean, sure, it’s a comic and people hoping she dies in a fire don’t actually burn people in real life, but it makes me wonder why “I don’t see a problem with leading her into a Wily Coyote trap for being annoying” makes you a bad person while “I don’t see a problem in removing her femurs for spouting hate speech” is seen as just harmless wish-fulfillment. As far as I can see they’re both silly stuff you wish you could do to someone who pisses you off, like I fantasize about stomping all over my neighbor’s stereo.
Where was this fucking concern for violence when Amazigirl fought Sal, exactly? I mean, I cared, but I was one loooooonely gal there. Why is it we’re super concerned with violence when it might actually be used to protect somebody’s rights, and not for a stupid revenge trip? Bear in mind, I have asked one of my friends to never threaten to defenestrate someone again (and this was a completely serious threat for the same reason as Ruth)
It’s all ‘cartoon violence is irrelevant’ until someone might actually use a Fist of Death for something vaguely resembling a good reason, and then suddenly violence is wrong. Why the fuck is that? Where the hell were you? Because I was saying “Joyce beating Toedad into the dirt was wrong”, as someone personally affected by Toedad. What about you?
Jesus fuck, I hate it when people try to use the principles of pacificism to stick it to marginalized people. Yeah, sure, you get to have fucking bloodfests like the Punisher, and have your violence handwaved in real fucking life (See: Every single white rebellious group in the USA, from Y’all-qaeda to the Sons/Daughters of Liberty and people’s strict refusal to call them terrorists) , but the second one of us thinks maybe violence is okay because it’s going to be enacted on us anyway, we’ve got to put Jesus’ printed word to shame in terms of our desire for peace? Fuck that shit, and I *AM* a pacifist.
It’s very convenient to be a pacifist when the victim is marginalized.
Little bit harder to believe as a genuine principled stand when this was Buhzim’s position 3 days ago when it was Carla who was on the receiving end of violence from Mary:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/stompstompstomp/#comment-951717
No, it ordinarily would be their business, but now they’re trying to say “PACIFICISM IS A MUST” when violence on behalf, rather than against, a trans girl is in the realm of possibility. Now, it fucking matters why you didn’t oppose violence before. Because experience has taught me that the reason is, “They weren’t white, male, cis, straight, and of middle class or higher status”. Those are the requirements before you’re allowed to be violent. THEN, you are justified in violence for a particular cause. Your inability to parse why that matters is on you, not on me.
“Nearly no one irl, in this society, would act upon a threat of defenestration”
Completely irrelevant to when someone does, and will. Which I had to tell him to please never do, because violence was unnecessary and unhelpful in this instance.
“Stupid revenge trips are something people can understand easily and have empathy towards. Stupid revenge is human.”
You’re not even attempting to actually answer the question. Yes, stupid revenge trips are human. So is indignation. So is wanting to use violence for /good/. We have entire genres of fiction dedicated to the basic idea. In fact, we tend to justify real world violence as being acceptable, because it was for a good cause. This is sometimes even a justification I accept, such as that of Westerners who entered the Flying Tigers during WWII. The defense of others is one of the most basic concepts that we have actually gone out of our way to codify it as a legal principle – even PACIFICISTS generally accept that violence can occasionally be used for good reasons, we’re just extremely strict about that, and don’t accept anywhere near as wide a range of justifications as most people. But you know, Buhzim isn’t a pacificist. We’ve already seen them advocate for violence, for considerably less good reasons than ‘someone just had their rights impinged upon’, to boot. Sure, I don’t accept that as a good reason for Ruth to introduce Mary to the wall, but I also don’t accept “Someone was annoying me” as a reason for Mary to introduce Carla to the wall. If you accept the latter, and not the former, you should fucking examine why that is.
“I saw none of this in Buhzim’s post and you failed to point any of it out, though I’m more and more convinced you’re putting words into his mouth/fingers.”
Of course you didn’t. You’re an illiterate. See slightly above you for an obvious example of them calling for violence before, and now trying to call for peace.
“Because there is a very strict disconnect between cartoon violence and the real thing. The complexities thereof would take me pages to explain, but suffice for this to say that most implicitly understand the difference. Those who don’t should inform themselves (googleing it is a good start).”
So cartoon violence for /bad/ reasons is okay, but cartoon violence for /good/ reasons is not? FASCINATING. I wonder why that might be? Oh wait, no, I don’t.
”I -think- you’re saying that people are hypocrites for preaching pace when just violence is enacted upon them? Well, yes. People do this and it’s pathetic. And water is wet.”
No, you’re an illiterate, and misunderstood. What I said is that violence is acceptable until I do it, as a marginalized person. *I* must live up to a standard of peace, but YOU are free to live up to a standard that exalts violence. It’s fairly common – though it’s usually more liberal people doing it. A pretty obvious example in common thought is the Black Panthers, who primarily armed themselves because the police were engaged in unlawful violence against themselves, and they wanted to discourage it. It is acceptable for white people to arm themselves for any damn reason they please, but a black person is not permitted to arm themselves – they must enact a standard of peace, and are failing MLK Jr. (It was not generally acknowledged that they were doing so in the face of violence, so this is not the form of hypocrisy you seem to think I mean)
“Ah, so we’re talking American politics then. Gotcha’.
Oh, this is cute. You think this is a matter of merely american politics. Perhaps you should try learning of the sheer jackassery of, for instance, the British towards anyone who did not believe in the concept of peaceful resistance that Gandhi put forth. White people in europe often like to pretend it’s completely insane when someone is violent and angry too – if anything, they’re /more/ fond of the leftist peace movement talking down to anyone in a worse position than they, because they are genuinely more leftist. Yes, I used examples easier at hand, but you are soooorely mistaken if you believe it is some sort of quaint americanism. It’s really a shame, I’d like for leftists abroad to be better than here on this.
“Because there is a very strict disconnect between cartoon violence and the real thing. The complexities thereof would take me pages to explain, but suffice for this to say that most implicitly understand the difference. Those who don’t should inform themselves (googleing it is a good start).”
But we already had enough proof you were an illiterate, why are you giving us more? The point isn’t that it’s okay for Ruth to drive Mary through a wall from my perspective. It is a ‘rant’, in taht I am growing extremely tired of fucking cowards who will wholeheartedly accept violence until the second that violence is wielded by the marginalized. Again, you are speaking to a fucking pacifist. You are speaking to a pacifist who opposes violence that helps her immediate situation. I will not allow you fucking assholes to use an actual, factual ethical position meant for actual good as a fucking billyclub to bully people who least have the ability to live by its principles. It was meant for better things than white men telling everyone else to stuff it.
“Where was this fucking concern for violence when Amazigirl fought Sal, exactly?”
If you mean the part where AG attacked Sal’s group in the parking lot, that was wrong too.She was being an idiot and looking for trouble, which is my position with Carla as well. I wasn’t writing posts back then, I am now because I have free time.
“Because I was saying “Joyce beating Toedad into the dirt was wrong”, as someone personally affected by Toedad. What about you?”
See above. Though I symphatize less with him since he was using lethal force and was in the wrong from the very beginning.
“It’s very convenient to be a pacifist when the victim is marginalized.
Little bit harder to believe as a genuine principled stand when this was Buhzim’s position 3 days ago when it was Carla who was on the receiving end of violence from Mary:”
With this much sarcasm I can’t even tell if you’re criticizing me or Rutee, but if you mean that I think it’s okay for Carla to be attacked because she’s transgender, the answer is no. I am okay with her getting her comeuppance (glue in skates, not the hate speech) for being an annoying troll. Both are different matters for me. Yes, legally Amber/Joyce/Mary were in the wrong for attacking Sal/Toedad/Carla (maybe Joyce wouldn’t because it’s a big guy with a gun and she can’t be sure if he won’t get up and shoot her if she stops attacking), but that doesn’t affect what I would like to see in a comic strip.
Do you not understand how fucking dishonest you sound now? “Carla was looking for a fight”. Really. Just like amazigirl. You mean the girl who physically fucking engaged 4 people. Skating inside of a fucking apartment building is just like physically engaging 4 people after shouting threats of violence, you’re totally right. How did I not see that before?
Oh right, because I have sense. I have some small glimmer of basic human fucking decency. It’s not true. So yeah, no, this is about what I fucking expect. Violence against the marginalized is justified far more easily than violence /by/ or /for/ the marginalized. Carla was looking for a fight, just like amazi-girl was, by skating out in a fucking hall. But Mary isn’t looking for a fight by shouting hate speech right in a trans girl’s fuckin’ face. Fuckin’ beautiful, I couldn’t ask for a better example if I tried. Fuck off, forever. Just fuck off. Speak when you have learned a god damn thing or two about ethics and decency.
“But Mary isn’t looking for a fight by shouting hate speech right in a trans girl’s fuckin’ face”
Your words, not mine. You’ll notice that I didn’t defend Amber’s attack on Sal or Mary’s slur towards Carla.
It should be noted, again, that Carla wasn’t making anything reasonably referred to as a ruckus until after Mary had escalated to attempts to injure and destruction of property.
Stop projecting your loud neighbor on Carla.
Just stop.
Why? She’s a loud neighbor behaving like a loud neighbor.
Mary then decided to bring her gender into it which is not right but I consider that a sepatate event from the “You can’t do this here, leave now” “Haha I do what I want” fight from before.
Maybe think about what context you are removing to so neatly separate those two incidents in your head.
I can think Carla is a jerk while also taking the view that Mary needs to be kicked out of school or serve criminal charges. Obviously, Mary’s behavior is a much-much-much bigger issue.
. . . I’m sorry, what criminal act did Mary commit?
What context? Carla’s gender wasn’t relevant to the situation at all until Mary went for the slur, which is bad but doesn’t retroactively change their behavior during the skates argument. It was Person A using their toy to torment Person B until Person B breaks said toy. It’s why in the previous strip I said it would play the same if this was Mike incessantly playing guitar in the corridor until Sarah gets fed up with asking and takes her baseball bat to it. IIRC your reply to that (which I couldn’t reply to because comments were closed) was also “look at the context”, so
it would help if you explained what you mean.
(Continued from above, accidentally clicked on post comment)
It’s the age old saying, “The right to swing my arms ends when they connect with another person’s nose.” Mary and Carla getting at it is aggravating and you could side with either. Hate-speech, especially after an incident like Toedad’s attack on students is disgusting and ends any sort of ambiguity about the situation. Even if Carla quote-unquote “started it”, Mary did something inexcusable and doesn’t deserve any further consideration.
BEFORE blackmail entered the situation.
“Mary and Carla getting at it is aggravating and you could side with either.”
Well, that was my point. But Cerberus is saying (I think) that I can’t side with Mary on the skating argument because that means I’m defending her as a person forever, so when Mary later went for hate speech and threats, that means I support her in this too. I think Mary was in the right for wanting to study without putting up with a skatepark by her door, but that’s it.
^ I concur. Too many people judge actions based on the person rather then the person based on his actions. The two can be separated and dissected for study independently of one another.
I can hate someone and agree with one of their actions while loathing most of their other actions, but regardless, I should never stop judging actions based on their own merits rather then the person making them. To invoke Godwin’s Law: not every action Hitler ever did was automatically horrible and wrong, even if he was a colossal congawaffle.
He did like puppies. Maybe they were evil puppies?
Because it’s the same Mary. And the same personality driving her to escalate the skate conflict is what drove her to escalate to the hate speech. For her, it’s all the same. There’s no dividing line.
While it was not a central issue then (though dear Bob there were enough red flags that Mary is a bully into disproportionate response and causing people suffering that way trumps the loud noises that skates on carpet aren’t (and yes, Word of God confirmed that to be the case)), it is now a glaring aspect of the current discussion.
Defending Carla hate now now comes with the context of neatly removing the transphobia on display last strip from the picture, which is not okay and becomes actively dismissive to trans people because it’s going “hey, if we erase the context of this really horrible bigotry and violence, then didn’t you deserve it?”
I’ve written before about my experiences with being blamed for “causing” my experiences with transphobia for various reasons, “shoving it in people’s faces”, “being so stupid as to be out”, “hurting the family”, “putting us in a difficult situation”, and so on. Seeing people echo that sort of logic by erasing the real weight of transphobia is very strongly reminiscent of that.
It also is an aggressive action of privilege. Separating out Carla’s reality as a trans woman in order to continue using her as a blank slate to vent your frustration with the minor nuisance of a loud neighbor is something you can do because you are presumably cis, not trans. Those experiences are not resonant to you or ones you can’t escape.
For individuals like me, trans is not something I can escape or separate out of a conversation, it affects how I am treated and what resources are available to me. This is also true of Carla because in comic, she is also trans.
And yes, it also retroactively changes the earlier situation. Because now we know that Mary has deep animosity for Carla and views her as inherently not belonging.
Ergo, she is more prone to view minor nuisances as more annoying simply because of the person doing it, she feels more justified in escalating to violence and hate speech to avoid simply accommodating the situation (do you really believe that she’d have escalated in the way she did if Carla was someone she respected like a doppleganger clone? (because Mary’s list of people she regards as subhuman is rather large)).
Essentially, her objectivity is severely called into question, especially in the context of Willis straight out saying last comic that Carla was skating on carpet and thus not very loud at all (certainly not much above usually Friday afternoon noise).
And this is backed up in the real world in the way that trans people and other marginalized individuals often have less social freedom to fuck up and make mistakes before they are viewed as “deserving” of negative treatment and how negative treatment gets justified much more quickly with less social or legal recourse to respond.
I can very much note how much differently my anger, my statements, and so forth are treated as an out trans woman compared to when I presented as a cis man and how much more frequently my experiences are dismissed, my qualifications are called into question, and how much more I must remain stoic to be taken seriously in most circles.
People are also a lot quicker to justify negative actions against me based on real or perceived slights and often times there’s a search for a reason to dismiss me or mistreat me implicit in a lot of conversations.
Carla being trans, Mary knowing about it, Mary thinking this is proof that Carla doesn’t belong radically changes the context of the earlier scenes and people who erase that to justify old worldviews are being openly dismissive of the reality of trans experiences with that sort of thing.
“Essentially, her objectivity is severely called into question, especially in the context of Willis straight out saying last comic that Carla was skating on carpet and thus not very loud at all (certainly not much above usually Friday afternoon noise).”
The first panel of this storyline shows she was locked inside her room when she hears noises that bothered her enough to make her go complain. She didn’t know Carla was the source of the noise. I could see “she was looking for an excuse to attack Carla” if they were in the corridor and Mary throws a meaningful glance towards Carla before complaining, but as it is I don’t see it as such. Whether the noise was really that loud or not doesn’t matter, it was loud enough for her and since it’s against the rules she was justified in asking Carla to leave. Carla decides to get even louder instead of leaving, which means she had a part in the escalating conflict. Which doesn’t justify everything Mary did later on, but it shows that Carla being transgender wasn’t a factor in the conflict until Mary decides to humiliate her with the “boys wing” joke.
“(do you really believe that she’d have escalated in the way she did if Carla was someone she respected like a dopleganger clone? (because Mary’s list of people she regards as subhuman is rather large)).”
Yeah? Mary’s defining characteristic is “not a nice person”. She outright told Billie once that she wears a permanent frown because “everyone has done something wrong”. It’s not like she’s nice to everyone BUT Carla. She was rude even to Roz’ sister, who simply asked her if she wanted to go to the cafeteria. If this was Mike playing trumpet by her door I believe she would have acted the same, up to the point where she would make a tasteless gay joke because he’s bisexual (according to Shortpacked).
Why are you so fucking /dedicated/ to defending a piece of shit for being a piece of shit. Are you getting money from the shit lobby? Do you know what you’re justified in doing, socially? PROPORTIONAL responses. Is Carla annoying you? Annoy her the fuck back – play Psalms on a speaker. Say Short Circuit was one of the worst movies of human existence. Tie her shoelaces together. Respond in motherfucking kind, you don’t fucking escalate. This is a lesson we aggressively teach CHILDREN. What the fuck is wrong with you?
I would argue that escalation is justified if you’re the one that was targeted to begin with. Sometimes response in kind gets you nothing, least of all revenge. For those times when eye for an eye doesn’t quite cut it we have the Chicago way (you send our guy to the hospital, we send your guy to the morgue).
This sed, it is never defensible to insult an entire group for one member’s transgressions – which is exactly the point where Mary jumped the shark this time. If she’d have slapped her or punched her in the face, I’d be quite willing to give her carte blanche for it; but what she did can garner no sympathy from me or most it seems – good.
As for your crude point on “Why are you so fucking /dedicated/ to defending a piece of shit for being a piece of shit.” – I’m pretty sure that the comment in question simply stated they’re both assholes. Which they are. That doesn’t defend anyone. I point you to “I don’t support Mary’s actions in this strip or the previous one”.
I suppose the simple answer would be ‘someone has to play devil’s advocate’ – in other words, perspective. Perspective is good.
Yes, use organized crime as your example of sound real world ethics. That doesn’t make you sound horrible at all. That absolutely showed how you were justified in escalation, yepperoni. Fucking hell. Escalation is not ‘okay’ because you idolize organized crime. ‘eye for an eye’ is already a horrible way to do things in the general. But at least here, with annoyance? Yeah, go nuts. Being annoying is a small harm in general, so once someone’s annoying to you, you can be annoying back, sure. You can go overboard, but at least here, ‘eye for an eye’ is not directly h armful on its face. It usually is, though.
“I don’t defend Mary in this strip or the previous one”, rather explicitly leaves “…but in the ones before she was fine”. In the ones before, she was still a piece of shit, she just wasn’t an obviously cissexist one. And ‘devil’s advocacy’ is almost always an excuse to be a little shit when it’s invoked in the modern era. You say ‘perspective is good’, but most of the people saying Mary was a jackass before yesterday were already saying “And Carla is one too, just less of one”. I’ve met one person who claimed ‘devil’s advocate’ as a reason to do a thing, and wasn’t horrible. I mean, sure, the historic devil’s advocates weren’t doing anything wrong (I wonder if you know the origin of the term off the top of your head), but in modern parlance, “BUT I’M A DEVIL’S ADVOCATE” is almost 100% an excuse to engage in jackassery.
Yeah, as a teacher, that whole “but but but teacher, he was being a dick, doesn’t that mean I get to hit him” thing was disconcerting and a little frightening before (because where was everyone’s kindergarten techers to say no to that shit). Now that Mary has dropped her little bombshell, it’s openly harmful and vile, because it means that the disproportionate response was part of a general belief that Carla fundamentally doesn’t belong and should be treated as a lesser being
I mean, it makes that whole skating incident into being about the fact that Carla existed in that hall. And it really only took one minor nuisance for Mary to escalate to breaking her cherished possession and dumping some very potent transphobia all over Carla.
That’s your headcanon. What the strip shows is Mary in her room studying, she hears noises, gets up to complain without knowing the source of said noise, then after trying dialogue, passive resistance and violence, none of which stopped the noise, she insults Carla and only then her gender becomes part of the issue. I don’t see the actions up to the glue trap as “hatred for Carla’s very existence” because her actions prior to the hate speech are pretty generic and could apply to anyone pissing her off with noises. Mary isn’t nice to everybody BUT Carla. Billie even asked her why she’s always looking at people with squinty eyes, and Mary’s response is “Everybody has done something wrong”.
Then you’re not very good at logical extrapolation, I guess? Mary was shown to be an obsessed self-righteous fundie from the start. Mary was shown being awful to lgb residents of the dorm. Do you think she’d just…conveniently be sweet as pie to the t part of that acronym?
So you believe, erroneously, that Mary has engaged in these shenanigans with JOYCE when she was making noise?
“So you believe, erroneously, that Mary has engaged in these shenanigans with JOYCE when she was making noise?”
I don’t remember an instance where the two interacted, so I’ll use am imaginary conversation. I imagine that she would tell Joyce is that she “deserved” the rape attempt for “tempting” a “good christian boy” like Ryan, because it fits with her character. Which is horrible but doesn’t mean she would be wrong for telling Joyce that she can’t have Becky live in her room (it isn’t allowed, regardless of my sympathy for Becky’s situation).
–
“Then you’re not very good at logical extrapolation, I guess?”
My guess is that you’re an smarmy ass who thinks it’s okay to call people idiots as long as you don’t say the word. Any truth to that?
What I’ve seen is Mary being rude to every student in the dorm, including visitors like Roz’ sister. I don’t expect her to be nice to anyone, and anything I don’t see depicted in the comic is headcanon to me.
Oh, you don’t. Really. Okay, that’s great. Meanwhile, in the actual comic, the two have had multiple conversations. At no point has she told anyone else hat they’re a boy who should go to the boy’s wing for making noise. Check Mary’s tag, she’s not exactly an actually common character. The fucking point, which eludes you because you are /desperately/ searching to not be wrong, is that she is engaging Carla because it’s Carla. Mary does not react to ordinary background noise EXCEPT when Carla makes it. That indicates the problem is fucking Carla, and not the Background noise. But go on, keep missing the fucking point in favor of being a fucking waste of space.
Significant interactions, I mean. Not being in the same room while the other talks to someone else. The only real instance between them is Mary taking Joyce aside and telling her that as christians they should stay from Dorothy.
I’m not intentionally missing your point, I just don’t agree with you. Not that being called a “fucking waste of space” makes me want to put much effort into a reply, but I tried.
People who “play devil’s advocate” on behalf of abusive bigots are dicks.
Mary does not need or deserve advocacy, but it’s worth remembering that Carla participated in the escalation too. Either one of them could have walked away at any time.
“Mary doesn’t need or deserve advocacy, but I’m going to stop for a moment and provide it anyway.”
Really. Okay. B|
Meanwhile, Carla has only escalated to petty annoyance. Mary has done every single escalation since. Even now, Carla only responds to Mary with petty annoyance, even though the situation has escalated well beyond that.
I’m not advocating for Mary, I’m condemning Carla, and only mildly at that. When I stopped & thought about it, her only contribution to the escalation was continuing to engage Mary – certainly forgivable, but if she’d been more mature & rational about it (Because people are always mature, and rational, right? Oh, wait.) she might have chosen to walk away from the issue.
I don’t mean to insult you or belittle your experiences, but you are far from objective here. Being wronged doesn’t mean Carla can’t have been in the wrong too.
Yup.
Ditto for assholes who look for any excuse to claim that victims of hate speech are complicit in their own victimization because “they could have deescalated at any time”.
Like, that’s actually been used against me before. The time someone casually talked about circling back to kill me? Well, during that exchange I did stick my tongue out before the whole murder plot when he was just catcalling me and my gf for being “hot lesbians”.
No joke, I had a very ex-friend now say that that meant the death threat was partially my fault, because I could have “de-escalated” by not sticking my tongue out.
My parents took that to an extra awful area by blaming that entirely on me because “what was I thinking forcing my way of life down people’s throats and being outside looking like that (i.e. wearing a long skirt and a modest women’s tee)”.
It’s incidents in my past that just fill me with a special potency of rage for the endless flood of victim-blaming horseshit.
“Why are you so fucking /dedicated/ to defending a piece of shit for being a piece of shit.”
I’m not, which is my point. I outright said that not everything she did was perfectly fine and that I don’t personally think her actions during the argument were necessarily the result of transphobia, that’s your interpretation. I’ll believe that when I see Mary saying that she didn’t really care about the noise and just wanted an excuse to attack Carla for being a sinner.
So it’s only when people actually admit that prejudice caused a specific action that it counts, right?
Just because someone is shown to be prejudiced and is harassing someone they are prejudiced against, there’s no reason to suspect there might be a connection. Especially in fiction, where writers often do things specifically for the subtext. And where it’s often considered better to show things rather than explicitly spell out everyone’s motivations.
So in other words you’re not sure but that’s how you interpret it because you think it’s likely. My interpretation is that Mary decided to eventually bring out the big guns (emotional harm) out of spite but that doesn’t necessarily mean it was the cause for the argument before that.
So would you think the same way if it was a racial difference and one of the people in the spat brought out N***** as a “big gun” at the end. Still no reason to think the racism had any part in the conflict?
Or from another point of view, do you really think it’s at all Willis’s style to drop all this stuff into the scene and not have it related? It’s been claimed and proven wrong before. (Sal’s parents couldn’t have been prejudiced against her.) He’s a better writer than that. This is all intentional.
But in the end, you’re right. I can’t be sure. Short of Mary saying “I hassled Carla because trans people freak me out” or Word of God coming down, I can’t be sure.
But when I see bigots getting in fights with the people they’re prejudiced against, I’m perfectly happen to assume the bigotry is involved.
The previous situation is in fact irrelevant now. Mary isn’t being a bigot because she’s frustrated, Mary is being a bigot because she’s a bigot.
Oh you beautiful, beautiful person!
*allthehugs!*
That was so well said.
:3
AFAIK, sexual orientation and gender identity aren’t protected classes in Indiana, so none of what Mary’s saying is legally hate speech.
Now, it may well be prohibited by the university, and what she’s saying is completely fucked up, but it’s not, in that state, criminal.
Apparently the city of Bloomington has a city ordinance largely due to the school preventing discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation and gender identity.
vault00dweller@gmail.com
67.160.140.195
Are you trying to dox this vaultdweller guy, or….?
‘Cause if you are, I’m pretty sure that’s illegal.
Again, I am positive that is THAT user’s info, as all his other hate-spew was deleted after it blew up the place earlier. His post was turned into putting his info on blast, as he is a waste of space and harassed other commenters, with a range of slurs.
Same said user also may or may not have posted the entirety of tomorrow’s comic, which has taught me to stop reading the comments, as this will be the second person to do so. This is why we cannot have nice things.
*shots fired*
Sorry but I just thought of this so pardon me.Man Willis, this is the weirdest segue into a porn comic you’ve done yet.
Wow. That was just cruel. Honestly, this changes the whole axis of the strip for me. I mean, Carla and Ruthless’ characters are based on (supposed) total contempt for others. Except now they’ve come across what _actual_ total contempt for others looks like, in action.
I am sorry to use such harsh language, but Mary IS a total b-o-n-g-o, and bongo is her name-o.
That’s a really good point. Carla and Ruth have outward personalities based on seeming like they’ve got no use for people, but Mary actively loathes people who are not exactly like her. And it really hammers home that what Carla and Ruth have are bitterness, scars, and acidic indifference.
What Mary has is genuine pitch-black loathing and utter disrespect for the humanit
y of people who aren’t exactly like her.
this is a super good distinction you’ve drawn. not that I didn’t already agree 😀
I’d also say that it says something about Mary that she was not only perfectly okay going zero-to-ninety over a hallway noise issue, but was holding all that material in her back pocket and waiting for an occasion to use it.
Yes, all of the things Mary is using for blackmail are correct-ish (Becky being a lesbian does not make her a pervert). However, what actual proof of her claims does she have? If Ruth tells the RD that she attempted to intervene in Mary spewing transphobic hate speech at a trans resident and that Mary threatened to lie about her having relations with a resident and allowing a non-student to live on the floor, the RD will require Mary to prove her claims.
I mean, they’ll probably put together an investigation anyway, and it’s not like there’ll be a shortage of students willing to testify to Ruth’s shittiness as an RA, if not any of the specifics Mary brought up. She’s committed enough fireable offenses that I’m sure they’ll be able to get sufficient evidence for at least one of them if it comes to that.
I think you’re forgetting the context where Mary. (And also Becky, for that matter.)
Taking Ruthless down two weeks ago? Everyone would probably be right into it, and Mary getting slapped would be A-grade evidence.
But in the context of the hate-speech hate-thought shit that Mary’s agitating for… given the support Becky’s getting, and the connection that some are likely to make between Mary and that male-authority-figure-version-of-Mary-currently-rotting-under-guard-in-hospital, I’m not sure it’s a stretch to see a wall of solidarity behind Ruth, unanimously denying they’d seen any wrongdoing from her. (With the probable exception of Sarah, but I can’t help remembering her actions after she said she wasn’t going to a certain party.)
Which would likely change some of Ruth’s perceptions a bit. She won’t be under any illusions about anyone liking her, but her strategy of gaming a reign of terror would be fully rewritten, and she’d be fully aware that she’s only in the job through the sufferance of those around her.
Yeah, I can see her trying to rally everyone up with “c’mon, you all hate the queer lover, right?” and having Agatha, Mandy, Grace, Sal, Joyce, Dorothy, Sierra and so on just talking a giant step back.
Nah, Ruth ain’t having none of that.
Tomorrow’s panel (or a near future one) will consist of Ruth saying “What proof do you have of this?” ’cause what proof does Mary actually have of Ruth and Billy, it’s her word against an R.A.’s
And they can cover up anything in the rooms before any of Ruth’s higher ups come in to look for any evidence of these claims.
I mean sure Ruth’ll be wondering about the whole “Illegally moving in” stuff but she’ll be damned if she lets Mary even think that she has the upper-hand for a second longer.
Man, I was just hoping tomorrow’s panel would be Ruth beating Mary with Mary’s femurs.
We can dream my friend, we can dream.
Cause we’re getting an upswelling of “Carla is still awful” and “Mary totally has points” fuckers, I’m gonna post what I planned to post early in the thread yesterday:
“Ok, writing this out ahead of time, because it’s rather important to me.
Yes, this is a clear cut form of transphobia. In fact, it’s rather more clear-cut than most of us deal with. Most of the time the transphobia isn’t quite as direct as this or maintains some level of deniability so that it can gaslight us as much as it wounds. Yes, this form does still occur though and it hits like a punch every time. So much so that just reading it last night in preview left me a bit “oof”. And no, there’s no possibility that this is intended as anything other than intentional transphobia. She’s telling a transwoman she belongs in the boy’s side. That’s about as direct as you can get without bringing in slurs or direct violence.
But more importantly, I want to speak to every person who’s about to write a little screed about how Carla totally deserves this and brought this upon yourself.
And I want to say, please don’t. Please think for a second before writing it and please keep in mind the reality for trans individuals in society.
Cause, this… this is our daily lives. Dealing with fucking shit like this and worse. Dealing with violence and hatred and endless microaggressions where you view checking your blind spots for threats as just your new normal.
And for individuals like me, we’ve been told that we’ve deserved every ounce of it. For “defying God”. For “confusing children”. For “flaunting our way of life”. For “being so incautious as to be out”. Personally, I’ve heard every variation. I’ve had my own kin tell me that I earned every bad thing that happened to me simply for “clinging to this delusion”.
We trans people are frequently and incessantly told that we deserve shit like this because of stuff we’ve done or haven’t done, none of which actually deserve shit like this.
So please keep that in mind before you write your little defense of Mary or your condemnation of Carla. It really would mean the world to me.
Thank you.”
See this is why I hate everyone. Less issues.
And yes that includes myselfCute but not actually a great thing to say, given how often people defend legitimately racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic shit with “no, I hate everyone equally!” I’m not accusing you of that, just letting you know that that phrase has a lot of negative connotations for that reason.
No offense taken.
…And in the context of this whole thing that’s a fucking statement.
._. Mm.
Question. In context, how do you think you sound right here?
The context that I view these characters based on their personalities.
No, no, you misunderstand me. In the context of my statements and the reality of experiences of trans individuals in society, how do you think your faux above-it-all persona sits? How do you think you sound in context.
Cause I know how you come across, but I want to know how you think you’re coming across. What you think these sorts of dismissive statements are saying to people like me.
I think that two strips ago this was about Mary fucking up Carla’s skates and being her usual nasty self.
And now it’s about trans issues. So, for the fourth time, I do no like these people.
I also do not care that Carla is trans. I have no actual real world interactions with trans people. My view and context to everything I have been saying is about how all these people were acting. Not their genders, not their sexual orientations, just their personalities and how shitty they are.
If that offends you then I am sorry. I am. I’m not bullshitting you, I’m not being sarcastic, I am sorry, but I have no experience with trans issues and only know what I’ve read on the internet, so I’m sorry that my first comment above hurt you in any way.
Thank you. I will say this. You have the privilege of not caring about the fact that Carla is trans and trying to separate that out from your interpretations of characters and events. You do not believe you have interacted in the real world with a trans individual (though you’d be wrong, we’re more present than you might think).
You are somewhat separated from trans experiences. This does not make you a bad person, but it does mean that you risk stepping into bad contexts like in this exchange and yes, some of what you said did genuinely hurt me and felt extremely dismissive to me largely because I do not have many of the same luxuries as you.
I do not get to ignore trans issues or not care about characters like Carla being trans or not identify painfully strong with experiences such as hers. For some context, I am a trans asexual woman. Carla is the sole media depiction of that.
Period.
In any media, Carla is the only one who depicts that identity and reflects it for me. By the time I die, she will probably remain the only one who depicts that identity for me.
And things like that transphobia in the previous comic is a regular occurrence in my life. It’s part of the new normal I’ve had to adapt to just to be myself.
I do not say these things to make you feel like crap in any way, but to explain the shape and method of how these clashes of context can create negative impact despite your best effort.
I appreciate you sharing this with me. I hope my words can explain part of where I am coming from and why sadly, last comic and this comic are really not separable from the overall conversation.
I’m just happy to have opened up a dialogue with ya’. Peace.
This is why I love Willis’s work so damn much. He’s set up a compellingly-real environment where it feels natural to encounter diversity, and where every character gets a fleshed-out and relatable backstory.
All this makes it properly (and deservedly) difficult for those of us with whatever form of privilege to not, at the very least, start to examine it.
That we’ve got Willis, and that we’ve got the likes of yourself and Leorale here as well, is just freaking awesome. The patience you have for dealing with both those who realise (belatedly) that their assumptions are faulty and those who don’t staggers me, every day.
(FWIW: male, cis, het, professional, penty Xian, so lots of privilege here, and I’m massively humbled by the generosity with which you share your experiences. though I should maybe add: my mums got married last week at long long last YAY! … I’m possibly an oddity in my church.)
“For some context, I am a trans asexual woman. Carla is the sole media depiction of that.”
Couldn’t say if she’s trans, but Girls With Slingshots has Erin as resident ace and Questionable Content has Claire who happens to be trans, if not ace. Pretty sure there are more comics I’ve red that have trans characters – tbh ace is by far more rare. So, don’t give up hope yet – there are trans ace characters out there… if very very few. :/
Erin: Ace but not trans
Claire: Trans but not ace
Rain from the webcomic Rain: Trans but not ace, but with an ace trans creator
Oscar from Sister Claire: Trans but not ace, but with an ace trans creator
Catherine from Sister Claire: Ace but not trans, but with an ace trans creator
I scour for representation but so far Carla and Ultra-car are literally the only examples of characters who are both ace and trans that currently exist in any medium.
butting: the likes of me? Hope I didn’t mislead you, I’ve got cis-privilege too. (I’m a bi Jewish white-looking social worker in training, who knows various queer folks.) I think about this sort of thing more than most cis people do, but surely not as much as any trans person does. And like you, I believe in being patiently kind to people whenever possible.
I’m not clearing my identity up bc being trans would be bad or something, but to express the possibility that cis-folks like you and me, we can be allies, we can listen to what needs there are and use our privelege for good.
Leorale: ah, yes, that was possibly sloppy phrasing—I’m grouping you with Willis and Cerberus because of the sheer damn eloquence we see here for talking about (and advocating for) who people are.
Knuckleheads aside, these comments pages are some of the best damn training grounds for ally training I’ve seen. I’d like to hope that it’s also a good all-comers place where people can feel safe about their identity, but the reality of privilege is that the likes of me simply doesn’t get to make that call.
Despite early appearances, we have a fundy transphobic character who’s in a conflict with someone we now know she knew is trans. Are you sure the previous strips were just about the skating and noise? Are you sure that her transphobia had nothing to do with Mary’s reaction?
Considering noise doesn’t label itself as coming from a specific person and that Mary came out pissed, it comes across to me as revisionist history to peg her initial response as anything but the obvious.
Her very initial response, yes.
Every bit of escalation afterwards, though?
It really couldn’t have played a role at all?
It definitely played a role. Treatment and violence of response is statistically significant in the way trans people are treated compared to cis. There’s a reason our murder rates are so high.
Hell, in a society where people feel justified to kill us simply because we gave them a boner, does anyone genuinely believe that someone would not be more prone to violence against a trans individual who annoyed them than a cis one?
There’s nobody else in the dorm who habitually skates everywhere. That makes the sound of skates easily identifiable as Carla.
Maybe next time consider what Garnet would say.
aw, shucks, thank you very much!
(whoops, probably replied in the wrong place, that was @butting)
You are a beautiful person but I’m not optimistic anything will stop the assholes who just have to get their two cents in…hopefully I’m very wrong, though.
Thank you for this intelligent, wonderful, personal comment. This is exactly it and it makes me so angry that you have to go through what you describe and that even here, in this comment section, some people don’t seem to understand the hurt they’re causing. There’s literally a commenter above who has just said basically what you describe and it makes me completely FURIOUS.
Everyone needs to read this comment :3 Hope it makes some people think!
Also important to note that if you’re still able to defend Mary, or say that Carla was even a little bit to blame for this, in the face of out-and-out hatespeech, take a minute to think about what your reaction must be when it’s a borderline case, something that a trans person who is constantly facing these sort of attacks would recognize but that might slide under a cis person’s radar. If you think “well yeah, Mary went too far, but she was in the right until then,” then I bet you’d continue to be totally on her side if she was a little less blatant about it, and just continued to chip away at Carla’s happiness, staying just this side of punishable attacks. As Cerberus says, transphobia isn’t usually this blatant, so keep that in mind when you’re tempted to roll your eyes at someone complaining about microaggressions.
From the comments I’ve seen no one here is trying to defend what Mary said (at least I hope not) but rather its up to the strip before Mary said what she said
After that came out the defending stopped (again I hope it did)
Nope. It’s continued.
A large amount has been deleted. Thanks Willis. But there’s still a fair bit remaining.
I wish it stopped. But it didn’t.
Well put. At the same time… I’m glad Willis is writing about this. It’s triggery for some people, but that’s because it happens – and a lot of people don’t understand that. This is perfectly in keeping with what we know of Mary – in fact, I’d just been thinking the night before about how UNrealistic it was that Mary hadn’t brought out the transphobia.
(Though I will say Carla’s been a douchecanoe. Seriously, skate outside or in a park, not up and down the hall. Not that this makes Mary’s comment right, but right up until she went “there”, I was on her side of this dispute. Yes, even after the glue.
Mary’s only possible points are, “Those roller skates are sure annoying.” Doesn’t justify destruction of property, or anything she’s said or done since. If Mary simply, I dunno, reported the roller skates, it would’ve been moot. But no, she’s been pretty evil the whole way since.
Considering what Mary just did. I doubt she’d trust Ruth to do anything about it.
The real question is – if she’s so danged hung up on being a religious bigot, why isn’t she at Anderson? Sectary beef? Taking courses they don’t offer?
Who knows?
Because if she’s out among the heathens she can feel superior to all of them.
Limited admissions, and Becky got the last spot?
Cerberus, you rock.
thanks for writing this. big props to your strength.
Hey Cerberus, I’m not a regular commentator here and I don’t know you, but I can tell you’re a good egg. Thanks for this post.
Thank you for this comment. :3
Cerb, as much as I like you and enjoy your comments… you’re looking past the obvious issue here and bundling it together with a separate one that people are bringing up.
The thing you take offense with is insulting an entire group. Dragging someone’s kin or friends or group into an argument is NEVER to be condoned and is never an honorable or just act. It is vile to it’s core and should be condemned as such.
However, Carla did start a fight and deserves flack – but PERSONAL flack. In such situations slurs, posturing, intimidation, even violence isn’t all that unreasonable after a certain point – but all of these should be directed at the INDIVIDUAL, not a group. Those sorts of actions are quite defensible with ‘she started it’ argument.
You take offense with transphobia because it is ad hoc directed towards everyone in your group, you included. By design such slurs target everyone associated, which is what makes them indefensible.
That sed, Mary had every right to attack Carla on a personal basis. However… she chose to instead attack everyone in her group. THAT is what’s not defensible. Not Mary’s hostility directed personally towards Carla, which is quite warranted.
It is a person of low honor that lashes out against countless innocents when slighted by one.
Dude, we’ve got history of positive rapport, so please trust me when I say that yes, animosity towards a group very much affects personal treatment.
It’s the real meaning of “the personal is political”. That personal interactions are inherently affected and driven by societal oppressions. There are social forces that encourage negative behavior against those who are marginalized and limits their ability to be flawed human beings and there are open protections to dominant group members who hurt marginalized group members, often dismissing it as “minor”.
It is simply impossible that Mary’s animosity towards Carla as a trans woman had nothing to do with the level and amount of disproportionality she showed earlier or the lack of social regard for facing consequences for it.
Given that Word of God has confirmed that Carla’s skates were relatively quiet and on carpet, this point is hammered home all the more. A good proportion of Mary’s ire was about the fact that skates mean Carla and Carla means a reminder, in Mary’s eyes, that a (transphobic slur) dares live in the same space as her.
And it most definitely contributed to her actions in comic.
Furthermore, people still defending Mary in this context do so in the social context of trans people being told they deserve negative actions and implicitly requires neatly separating out transphobia in a way that simply does not happen in the real world. Transphobia and other -isms are not one-offs in neat little bubbles. They are inherent to an overall suite of regular mistreatment and stricter codes of conduct allowed to those targeted by them.
To separate out Mary’s transphobia in order to still dislike Carla’s earlier actions and side with Mary on them is to separate the whole point of Mary’s actions and why socially we’re willing to pretend someone quietly making uncommon noise in the hallways midday on a Friday is somehow creating such a big sin that we can quite literally erase transphobia against them and view actions designed to break their stuff and cause injury as totally socially acceptable.
“animosity towards a group very much affects personal treatment” We do, Cerb, we do. And I completely agree with you on this point. To be honest I didn’t much think of inherent likes and dislikes when analyzing this situation. It simply didn’t cross my mind to imput starting demeanor into the equation.
Still, such an approach is a bit like putting the cart before the horse, at least in this case. Mary literally didn’t know it was Carla at first but she still was angry. Furthermore, from observation, she seems to have been irked by Carla’s crescendo of antics, not her gender – she did use it as a disreputable weapon against her and she lost all credibility for such – but she did so after already being angered by mundane reasons. Could it also be that it’s largely due to transphobia? Possible. Probable? That’s the question here, ain’t it? Certainly it got mixed in there, somewhere along the way, but is that the primary reason? I’d say no from their interactions. No love lost between these two from the start, to be sure, but it didn’t get this far until they started to one-up each other.
*rubs beard* “Would Mary react this way to someone that wasn’t trans?” would be the quintessential question (up to the transphobic statement). Well, let’s look at how she acts with others. I’d say this is not out of character – regardless of who it would be I can see Mary reacting this way, minus the slurs at the end. So I have to presume, with evidence given, that this is mostly not due to Carla being trans.
Do note that Mary is under no obligation to like Carla from the start – simply disliking her for who and what she is is not the issue – weather it’s pretinent to how she acted, is. Sure, it’s definitely a part of it, but… let me use a personal example: Mary starts disliked by me for being a zelous Christian – that does not mean any altercation I’d have with her would be DUE to that.
For example now I can hate her for reasons somewhat removed from her religious views (arguable, but that’s another kettle of fish) – it doesn’t make me a ‘religiophobe’ to not stand her for this new reason. If I’d hate her no matter what purely for her religion, THEN I’d be a ‘religiophobe’ (I’m sorry, I know this word is stupid and made up, but I’m tired). Same applies to the current situation. She’s transphobic, sure, but it wasn’t pertinent to a alarming degree until it got to *that* point, where it promptly got very fucking pertinent.
Sorry, I went off on above long-ass explanation without reading the rest of your comment. I shall read and respond to it now. (Dear lord, Cerb, we’re eating half the bandwidth xD )
“social forces that encourage negative behavior” There are also social forces that protect sed people. Without society the only law would be rule of the fist – with no norms save for who can boss around the other. Society affords us all a certain degree of protection. Sadly some recieve less then others, but it’s a matter of flux as issues are brought up and weighed against tradition (a notion that has as much ugly sides as respectable ones) to see how society should evolve itself. It’s a struggle, as evolution always is and should be.
“open protections to dominant group members who hurt marginalized group members” Yes, we are animals after all. A dominant group will assert it’s values over the rest – the problem is not that in itself, it’s how harshly deviants (such as myself) are handled. I’d be fine with curiosity, problem is when it goes beyond. Thankfully, we have historical evidence that these things tend to homogenize somewhat in time and outrageous practices of yesteryear become banal as time marches on.
“impossible that Mary’s animosity towards Carla as a trans woman had nothing to do with the level and amount of disproportionality she showed earlier” That’s an opinion and I have another one: it very much is.
They’ve acted like two little brats trying to stupidly upstage one another for what… 3 comics now? Anyone… fine, most that have done this irl know that eventually someone either throws a punch or says something that you can’t unhear for a good long while. Mary’s example was extraordinary in her choice of subject matter, but the logical culmination given who she is – even if her transphobia wasn’t as pronounced as this explosion would lead us believe. You see, I’m not defending her, I’m simply arguing it’s not logical to hold the stance that this was always her motive. She’s a bongo (ha, got one up on you, word filter, I used the -ongo myself!) either way, but before this, one could have seen it as a reasonable escalation – if a particularly childish one.
“lack of social regard for facing consequences for it” Looks like cartoonish heat of the moment disregard for consequences or security in knowing she has blackmail. Tbh, I don’t see how what she pulled to counter Carla can be swept under the carpet by social blindness if Carla pressed her charges – she could have been hurt by Mary’s glue stunt. It would take an extraordinary amount of social blindness to disregard such a claim based on gender identity in any school – much less the one next door to the Kinsey Institute.
“Mary’s ire was about the fact that skates mean Carla” Should this be the only reasonable course of thought, it would certainly weigh a lot more into your reasoning, making Mary even more scummy then she already was in my eyes. I, however, was under the impression Mary only found out Carla was trans after she jumped over her a few pages prior – well after the whole arms race started.
“And it most definitely contributed to her actions in comic.” Knowing Mary to be Mary, wouldn’t we expect similar if it where anyone else? I mean, comments even used the term ‘Marying’ regarding such situations in the past. We knew she’s vile – to everyone.
“people still defending Mary in this context do so in the social context” If someone says they’re analyzing a situation out of a social context, then they are doing such. Plus, social contexts are based on where you are. US social context is different then German social context, that’s also different then Romanian social context, all of whom are different to webpage-specific social context. Removing the context is a useful tool to study something in a cold, clinical and unbiased manner in order to get conclusions that apply to most situations. Dissecting the finer points of Indiana collage life society isn’t something we’re equipped to do – since most of us haven’t been there and the finer points would be lost on us. We can however talk about sed actions in a more sterile context.
“that simply does not happen in the real world” Correct. Hence why we’re armchair analyzing a webcomic and not real-life events. Much of what we dissect here doesn’t have direct analogues or applicability to real life and should not be treated with the same level of vehemence. That’s not a bad thing. It’s just a reality of what we do here. *shrug*
“Transphobia and other -isms are not one-offs in neat little bubbles.” No, but if one can’t agree on a definition, good luck with agreeing with each other thesis’s. We break down events – life – into smaller bits so we can analyze them on that scale and then work up to understand a greater picture.
Are you saying you went from the possibility of her being mostly motivated by phobia, to analyzing what that means for the world at large and reacted accordingly? Because I’d say that’s far from the small scope of most of what I’m reading in the comments, especially mine. I’ve talked about singular events, maybe understanding a person at most; not a greater insight into society as a whole. Perhaps this is in part where the dissonance is coming from.
“They are inherent to […] to those targeted by them.” I understand what you’re stating, but I can’t say I have any opinion on the matter at this time; nor do I see what this has to do with my post. I suppose a ‘alright’ is all I can offer at present on the topic.
“To separate out Mary’s transphobia in order to still dislike Carla’s earlier actions and side with Mary on them is to separate the whole point of Mary’s actions” I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m saying both are idiots/assholes. It’s just that they where of a similar caliber until Mary showed her transphobia and garnered herself the prized position of top asshole in the room.
This whole debate is academic for me – we did reach a consensus for the present, but the past is what we’re arguing over – specifically the finer points of /when exactly/ Mary showed to be the bigger asshole. My money’s on ‘after certain words’ and yours is ‘at the start, because it was premeditated’ – statement I and others find questionable given what we know; mayhaps time will give more answers.
Unless you’re stating that Carla is innocent, because then we’d have a whole -other- (possibly LENGTHIER) can of worms to pick apart and I doubt any of us has the time by this point.
“making uncommon noise in the hallways midday on a Friday” Police have been called for less (faces have been punched for less as well). I would find that stupid tbh, but such are the rules (minus the punchy part but that doesn’t stop reality).
Personally, given Mary’s position, I’d have either ignored Carla, went to the RA or if an argument did erupt and Carla would have been obstinate, I’d have steadily grown more irate and probably forcibly dragged/pushed her out of the dorm door (or perhaps take off her skates by force? Depends on how angry she got me.). Or I’d have flirted with her – more so if I knew she was trans and seen what win-win could have ensued (either she’d leave or she’d like it and change her posturing to be more pleasant while staying for a nice talk – both acceptable outcomes by that point).
“literally erase transphobia against them and view actions designed to break their stuff and cause injury as totally socially acceptable” Because if it was anyone else, most would be fine with that. In other words, people here didn’t even account for her being trans – we simply saw two people having a stupid competition. The whole trans issue didn’t come in until it was blatant, because people by and large – at least online – don’t judge you based on your gender or orientation or color. It’s quite normal for people to dissect the issue without accounting for transphobia because we’re giving Mary the benefit of the doubt that she can’t possibly be this petty – or so help us Odin we will forever shit on her. Few people want to believe it’s something so bad, Cerb. And personally I find it reasonable to give her that doubt – not guilty until proven such and all that Americana. Idealism, perhaps, but perhaps you should find solace in seeing this trend – it can give one hope for the future.
10817 characters above ^. Roughly 4 pages. I am so sorry, everyone that reads this! I couldn’t make this shorter! >.<
Outside of “what would really happen”, do you think Willis, with a known interest in discrimination, religion, LGBTQ issues and such things, would intentionally set up this conflict between one of his trans characters and a known prejudiced character who reveals at the end both her prejudice and that she knew Carla’s secret, and still intend it to be read as the conflict being completely divorced from any prejudice? Cause, narrative wise, that makes no sense at all.
He’s also setting up a nice parallel between this minor conflict between Carla and Mary and the larger, more significant one between Ruth and Mary. Both involve a sympathetic character who’s at least partly in the wrong and Mary who is attacking them for completely the wrong reasons.
Ruth’s in the wrong on a much larger scale than Carla was, but that parallels the conflict being larger.
“do you think Willis […] would intentionally set up this” It can swing both ways, specifically because he is who he is – depends on what the author wants out of it. That sed, it was strongly implied that Mary found out when Carla jumped over her – meaning after all of this started.
But you are right, meta-wise the evidence is starting to point towards premeditated as bad as that would be.
There are parallels, to be sure. I’m just not sure how that factors into the main issue that’s being discussed. But yes, it is a interesting choice.
I really don’t see it implied that Mary found out then. Her reaction then could easily just be frustration at not being successful at stopping Carla. The look seems far more like anger than shock or surprise.
BTW: It’s “said”, not “sed”! “sed” is a Unix text parser. Sorry, but it nags at me everytime and I finally snapped.
I wonder if Mike can ironically swoop in and make Mary regret her life choices with his own brand of awful.
I love this comment. I’m not trans myself and have had no interactions RL with trans people (qualifier: to my knowledge) outside of my step-grandmother and potentially my own grandfather (couldda just wanted to wear women’s clothing, we don’t know..) and this helps me understand a bit better the violence and hate trans-people get. Though, can I get an answer to a question, how do you know if you’re trans? Just an honest genuine curiosity.
I believe (don’t quote me on this) that you just… know. You feel like a girl, or a guy, or anything in between or outside. You might not realize it when you’re young, but you almost definitely will at some point.
The term is gender dysphoria.
As I understand it, you literally feel like your body is wrong. It usually starts fairly young and gets worse with puberty. People often aren’t diagnosed/realize the problem is that they’re transgender early on, probably largely because until quite recently many young people haven’t even heard of the concept, but the problem generally goes back to a young age. Just without any idea how to deal with it or even what it is.
Hormone therapy is the main treatment. I’ve heard from some trans people that while the physical changes from that take awhile, relief of the dysphoria can be quick – you feel much more like yourself once you’ve got the right hormones flowing through you.
It’s been a while since I commented on here but I felt I should add my support. I know it’s pretty much meaningless, but I feel obliged to show there’s many people out there who support trans individuals, even though unfortunately we’re often drowned out by bigots.
I’ve had issues myself, however I cannot imagine the impact of people actually spewing out the kind of bigotry you describe, and that unfortunately I know still happens to this day.
Just know that there are many people who value you (and other trans people) as people, to me, and I know many others, there is no difference between someone who got assigned the right gender at birth and someone who did not.
In the end it’s the kind of person you decide to be, how you treat others that decide if you’re a good person. And on that front, there’s little doubt that a trans individual has a massive head start on someone who’s transphobic, one that’s pretty impossible to overcome.
TL:DR There’s no excuse treating trans individuals any different from those who happened to be lucky enough to be assigned the correct gender at birth. And there’s many of us who support you, though unfortunately we’re often drowned out by the screams of the bigoted.
PS. I’m sorry if I phrased some things awkwardly, while I support trans rights in my heart I’ve not been in contact with it enough in real life to be comfortable in the way I show that support.
This strip and the one prior has seriously enraged me when it comes to Mary. I don’t care what or how, but I seriously pray she receives some horrid karmic retribution on this. There’s being mean, there’s being a jerk, and then there’s being honest-to-God evil. And that face? That smug ‘I have power over you and want to hurt you with it’ abusive face? THAT is evil. The sooner Mary is written out of the comic, the sooner it can be enjoyable again, because from this strip onward anytime I see her any possible enjoyment is going to be sucked out of the room.
That power trip Mary’s on must feel amazing. I love her as a villain.
http://i.imgur.com/WMMBOO2.png
And another one.
Nice!
OH SHIT!
SOMEBODY GO THE MARKET CAUSE THAT bongo NEEDS SOME BURN HEAL!
Nah, she needs an ice bucket challenge..without her knowing.
I love it.
Awesome <3
Yotomoe, we don’t deserve you.
So, putting aside how awful the hate-speech, transphobia, etc is for just a moment here (primarily because all that has been pretty thoroughly discussed the last few days in comments here):
I could be wrong, but I think Mary just played every single card she had against Ruth. If that doesn’t work, what does she have left? It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I’m very much hoping we get to see Mary scared that she doesn’t have any more tricks up her sleeve in the next few days.
To be clear, I’m 100% against Mary on this (and pretty much everything else) and I hope that even after all her “leverage”, Ruth still brings down the hammer of Thor on her ass.
Preferably in the form of femurs.
love this point. but seriously, people that are always trying to find a lower bar always find one. I bet willis won’t make this one too much lower bc ow ow ow, but the marys out there in the real world* always find another way to hurt. : (
In my (admittedly limited) experience, the improv, on the spot stuff tends to not be as effective as insults and information someone has spent weeks in advance refining for maximum devastation. Plus, maybe I’m just not a horrible enough person, but I genuinely can’t think of any other fuel Mary can throw onto the fire that’s more damaging than what she’s already said without just making stuff up, repeating herself, or dragging the rest of the floor into the fight. Maybe bringing up Ruth’s drinking, but I
thinkhope most people wouldn’t think that’s worse than everything else she’s done so far. In the words of a certain deputy director of the parks department, “Hold on to your straws, everybody, ’cause mama’s going grasping.”Also, she’s been holding onto all of that for, what, weeks now? And she burns it all up just because of someone skating in the hall? Either she’s a horribl(y ineffective) villain on top of being a horrible person, or she wasn’t expecting Ruth to show up, panicked, and used everything she had. But maybe that’s just my wishful thinking again. Either way, Mary’s gonna learn the real meaning of “the wrath of God” really soon.
Again, hopefully in the form of femurs.
she has the alcoholism
I bet Billie not telling Ruth about Becky (if that’s what her surprise is supposed to imply, she already knew Mary knew about Billie) is going to cause a big issue.
I wonder if this is going to be a call for Ruth to, uh, go back to the book. The floor clearly needs an effective RA, and Ruth has shown at least some willingness to be that RA, but not how things are right now.
I don’t really have much to say about Mary. I’m hoping that Carla tells her off, but what can you really say to bigoted shit like that…
Mr. Willis, you, like George R.R. Martin, have this ability to give me what I want and make me not want it. As someone who tries to write, I applaud your ability.
Ruth, long before you found yourself in a relationship with Billie and long before Becky moved in. Your method of establishing and maintaining authority involved physical assault, theft of property, and destruction of property. None of that is acceptable in an RA and, had someone pressed charges winding you up in jail, I would not have been displeased.
This is not to say that I don’t like Ruth. I actually do. But, I think bullying like that does need consequences, and not all on the basis of whether or not I like the perpetrator.
But, why, why, why, why, why did it have to be Mary who finally did it? Of all the various people to do it, why Mary?
comparing Willis to G.R.R. Martin
Come on now, Willis updates more often.
And gives himself realistic deadlines and a decent buffer of content.
Alright reel it in a bit sparky.
Yeah, I’m okay with Ruth ending up being something other than an abusive, tyrannical, violent, thieving RA. I just don’t want Mary to win, either.
I think Ruth isn’t responsible for her behavior due to something which she needs to be on medication for. Mary, however, is behaving like a psychopath.
Ruth could just murder Ruth now, and nobody would blame her.
…:(
I was going to comment that you typo’d, then wondered “what if they didn’t?”
Now I’m sad.
I totally did typo. Ruth could murder Mary, I meant.
Damn, another typo. SHOULD murder Mary.
Wait, failed again. Ruth should justifiably euthanize Mary. Mary has proven that she doesn’t deserve human rights, anyway:)
Honestly Ruth being given two choices and choosing Option #3 would be in her character.
Ruth’s been trying to murder Ruth forever. Billie’s been doing a good job of stopping her.
(Yeah, I know it’s a typo, but…)
I’m trying to remember what Mary might have that would even count as testimony, let alone evidence.
There was that one time that Billie left Ruth’s room, and it looked like an obviously staged angry ejection. Anything else?
I can really see both Ruth and Billie lying about it when questioned.
Ruth: “How dare you accuse me of sleeping with a student!”
Billie: “How dare you accuse me of sleeping with the RA!”
Alternatively/Additionally, Billie and Ruth work out a cover story: “I visit Ruth a lot because she’s tutoring me in [subject].” Or maybe: “Yeah, I visit and we talk a bit . . . see, I found out about her parents, and mine are absent and neglectful. . . Well, we pretend to be at odds because Ruth has a reputation for badassery to uphold.”
And everyone has been hiding Becky. . .
Numerous students: “Who? The short-haired redhead? Oh, she just visits Joyce a lot — you know, after her dad tried to kidnap her?”
Sal: “Billie still sleeps here. Becky? Yeah, she sometimes visits.”
Mary might’ve seen Billie taking all her clothes to Ruth’s room. Even that seems like a pretty shaky claim though.
Wonder what would happen if they just went the Gal Pals angle? “Oh yeah. Billie’s totally been rooming with me. We get along really well and I know it’s against the rules but we really enjoy this informal roommate situation we’ve got going on. So weird that Mary just assumed we were sexing eachother up.”
Really Billy could just say “I was suffering from suicidal ideation so Ruth was keeping an eye on me to make sure I don’t, y’know, kill myself in one of your dorm rooms.”
It’s true, there are lots of stories they could tell. They have to figure out who is likely to be asked about Becky and/or Billie, and which of those people will be on their side and/or willing to lie about it. They need to agree on a good story, one that’s as simple as possible, with few details to mess up. Then they need to pass the story along by word of mouth, without changing it much in the process. Finally, everyone has to absolutely stick with it. Huh. Conspiracies are hard.
Really if it’s a personal issue it doesn’t even have to be spread it would be entirely justified that Billie was hiding her debilitating depression from her peers and that’s why she was sneaking around about it. It’s not like her friends haven’t noticed she’s struggling.
Dear Carla: no one would have cared about you skating in the halls in my dorm. You’d have been welcome.
Man, I’ve endured drunken parties in the dorms worse than someone rollerskating. Mary’s got to learn how to get along with other people. You live in a dorm, you put up with some noise. Don’t want the noise? Shell out for an apartment.
I’m waiting for Mary to pregnancy-barf on Ruth’s shoes and promptly faint. Some of the acid in the vomit will dissolve the glue in Carla’s skates. Ruth will be forced to take Mary to the hospital. Mary, once she regains consciousness, begs Ruth not to tell about the pregnancy, the previous abortions, or the naked teacher that bolted from Mary’s darkened room when he heard the thud.
Viva la resolution.
….HEY WILLIS DO YOU MIND UNDOING FOUR MONTHS WORTH OF STRIPS CAUSE THIS SHIT SOUNDS GOLDEN!?
My own ridiculous theory is that Ruth will face official trouble, but due to some manner of bureaucratic error, Becky becomes the new RA. I mean, pretty much everyone on the floor already likes her, and she’s got conflict resolution skills as evidenced by the brinksmanship diplomacy with Toedad. Lots of witnesses for that, official statements and such.
She wouldn’t have been welcome in my dorm. Razor Scooters for life.
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/club937.com/files/2011/09/tosh.comedycentral.com_11.png
Also HOLY SHIT THERE’S A GHOST!
I think the most unsettling thing, to me, is when rereading- Mary is using her blackmail material not even yet to control Ruth or get something, but just to defend her use of hate speech (and hate action) so Ruth can’t stop her. Like, her goal here (other than to feel superior to the others) is to be able to bully (or a more severe word) people without getting in trouble.
Mary is using blackmail just to get to spread hate more. Holy shit Mary.
Sorry for repetition, proofreading on my phone sucks. With this I’m out, because instead of a fun discussion of both realistic and not outcomes and punishments (Malcolm in the Middle reference please) this just kind of sucks.
Wait, hate speech? I’m not sure I follow. Are you refering to where she says “the boy’s wing where you belong?”
Is it hate speech now to say that someone belongs in the boy’s wing?
Further, the skating chick is being pretty inconsiderate and awful. Granted, Mary is letting her anger get the better of her and she is being a jerk with the leverage she has, but again… hate speech? I don’t follow.
….I don’t know what the correct term these days are is, but Carla(Skater chick), is trans.
Sooooo let that wash over ya’ for a while.
Carla is transgender. Mary apparently knows, somehow or another, and is deliberately misgendering her in order to hurt Carla.
Yeah, it qualifies as hate speech to me. Mary brought up Carla’s gender choices to specifically imply that she is an outsider to the group. It had nothing to do with Carla annoying her, did it? When you wanna hurt someone you go for something personal like this, and that’s pretty hateful.
As everyone says, Carla is trans. Mary is deliberately misgendering her in an effort to wound Carla intentionally. Which you know doesn’t have any real life consequences:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/the-truth-about-transgend_b_8564834.html
Which yes, does very much make this hate speech, unless you’re one of the many assholes who don’t believe transphobia should count as hate speech. Which if you are, just do me a favor and fuck off because you’re going to get banned anyways.
Also?
“Further, the skating chick is being pretty inconsiderate and awful. ”
Fuck you.
“Mary is letting her anger get the better of her”
Oh, how very dismissively phrased. Thanks.
(Tirade of homophobic and transphobic intentional attacks) Gosh, she’s just getting carried away with her anger, her disproportionate anger at the existence of people of marginalized identities.
Now if there were only a word for that sort of thing.
Cerb, you’re getting carried away here. Chill. No one insulted no one in the comments (maybe except you, but I’m sure you didn’t mean to be rude to innocents or the naive). Focus your hate on Mary if you must but for goodness sakes, don’t blow up on others for not caring about the things you care about.
As for Carla… she thrives on “being pretty inconsiderate and awful” – simply happens that this time her victim deserves it fully. However, her gender doesn’t make her any less of an asshole or any less culpable. Regardless of the start, by this point they may as well have a knife-fight and get it over with, but I for one am not rooting for either of them.
Hey, maybe you could not take it upon yourself to tell people who’ve dealt with abuse, harassment, and discrimination that are outside the realm of your own experiences how they should react to the callous dismissiveness exhibited above. Because it’s not, you know, at all your place to do so.
Funny how it is when I do have those experiences.
And even if not, comment sections do still have a social order of some form – and directly insulting others is a bad idea for everyone involved. As for why I’m doing it – it’s because I care enough about Cerb to not want her to get in trouble because she’s let her temper run away with her. After all, unprovoked ad hominem’s are about as serious an offense as you can get on a comment board.
I’m also trying to point towards my respect for her and defusing a potentially problematic affair – in other words I’m vouching that she’s not like this usually and trust that our Benevolent Overlord doesn’t look angrily upon her for such, while not ignoring sed issue.
You know, about how you’d expect a friend to act if you do a social faux-pas in plain view of a crowd. Perhaps I’m doing one myself and perhaps it’s not my finest speech, but I think I made my intentions clear.
You’re tone policing, and it’s incredibly gross. Saying her reaction was unprovoked is gross. Your false equivalence is gross. Your behavior is gross. There’s very little about your comments that isn’t gross, and I would have no use for a friend who plays concern troll when someone is very reasonably upset.
So, pot – kettle, then?
I could end it here but… ah, wth, let’s make use of that ‘right to reply’, shall we!
Yes, unprovoked – the comment in question was naive in tone, that does not give one any rights to use personal insults.
As for this… well, you’re certainly goading me, yet I’m being civil and avoiding insulting you unless you start to – and no, ‘gross’ isn’t an insult, it’s your opinion and I quite honestly couldn’t care less what it was.
“false equivalence” I see no false equivalence nor have you pointed to such. Simply stating ‘that stupid thing’ isn’t actually useful information for anyone that isn’t already you.
“Your behavior is gross” Broad statement that can mean anything anyone. In other words this insult lacks substance. Kindly try insulting me with some oomph.
Be witty, be expressive, just don’t be so dull when insulting me, please.
“There’s very little […] that isn’t gross” Why use this drab word ad nauseam? It’s no wonder my comments skeeve you out – I’d imagine all these different words scare you. No worries, it will get better in time. Hopefully.
“I would have no use for a friend” Good thing we’re not even acquaintances then. Friendship is earned, not given and at times two people that are amiable can have very strong differences of opinion. And that can be fine. But you wouldn’t know much about that, would you?
“plays concern troll” Troll? I am not trolling in the slightest. I was utterly sincere in everything I sed. I play devil’s advocate at times, but that’s rather rare and isn’t nearly the same thing.
Weather you believe me is irrelevant though it would be nice to not be misrepresented.
“when someone is very reasonably upset.” Weather upset or not, a society has rules and consequences for actions and words sed. ‘I was angry’ isn’t a good defense for one’s failings. Neither for me nor anyone else. It’s good to remind ourselves of that every now and then.
There’s also standards – higher for oneself and those one respects then for random passers by.
Now then, if you’ll excuse me, I have some thoroughly /gross/ business to take care of! *flies off*
The thing is that sadly, people can be dismissive, cause hurt, or reinforce narratives of institutional oppression without meaning to (though unfortunately there has been a flood of individuals intending to be malicious, but thankfully Willis has deleted all of them).
If I was to make a statement that was inadvertently dismissive of racism or minimized its impact in the world completely by accident. Someone who was of color would very much justified in unloading on me because I would have caused harm, albeit by accident.
I do not view people who have done so inherently as bad people, though I’ll admit being wary given the flood of intentional assholes we had earlier, but there dismissals have real-world consequences (see Elana feeling suicidal earlier in the thread).
I did reply with a fairly long-winded (as usual) comment about how sed person of color wouldn’t have the right to interpret your words as he saw fit and claim damages based on his/her interpretation. Because that’s how you can justify to be upset over literally anything – surely making such unreasonable.
Plus the old ‘intent vs. effect’ core debate – we already know how that would go.
Regardless, I am sorry you had a rough day. I apologize if I’ve added to it by folly. At least you can rest assured in the knowledge it was with the best of intentions… though considering our intent vs. effect debate I’m not sure how much that means to you. *sad smile*
Take care, Cerb.
Damn, lost my trail of thought – I replied, but it failed to imput properly. Poor comment section’s really feeling teh burn today.
No blackmailer ever stops at just one use of their blackmail.
None.
It’s gonna get bad. It’s gonna get real bad if Ruth backs off.
In the long run it’ll probably get worse than if she just takes it by the horns here and tries to bluff/lie her way through the fallout.
Its ok Cerb, Ruth probably has a bottle of alcohol in her pocket, ready to be smashed and used against that little bitc- I mean Mary.
That’s only true if the blackmail works.
And blackmail only works when the target isn’t self-destructive enough to take the hit. Or is arrogant enough to believe there won’t be a hit.
We know the first to be untrue. Ruth has claimed the latter is true, though it’s unclear whether she actually believes she’s untouchable.
You are correct in that factor if the blackmail-victim gives into the blackmailer.
If the victim gives in, than yes as I stated, no blackmailer ever stops at just one use of blackmail.
… Ugh…you know, rereading this, I borked the last sentence of the second paragraph, and as a result the last sentence of the whole post. The ‘arrogant’ points should have the same negative modifiers as the ‘self-destructive’ points. I don’t know where my head was at when I wrote that.
True, but that (above) is her major application for now according to this page and goes to show that jer other applications also will be horrifying- which leads back to my main point, that this isn’t just blackmailing someone into keeping a secret or doing a chore
(Re pendrake who I assumed was talking about the use I pointed out)
Ugh, sorry it’s the middle of the night and I forget things. Also I meant that she means to use this sp she can do yesterdays continuously following, not just get away with it now
Heh, I can relate. I came home from a graveyard shift of work, but still had to check the current strip.
I too should have not oversimplified my statement. But it does not negate that it is true.
Because no Blackmailer that is successful in their use of their leverage against their victim, ever stops at just one use of their blackmail upon them.
None.
Ironically, Mary doesn’t realise how perverted she is for keeping that stick shoved so far up her backside…
I fully expect a panel (which turns into a sketched thought/daydream balloon) of SUDDEN TERRIBLE VIOLENCE.
Man, I hope Ruth slaps her hard and then reminds her the Christian thing to do is to put the other cheek.
Also: shouldn’t it be “maternizing”?
No. Mike maternizes. For a nickel.
No. If you’re going to gender ‘fraternizing’, the feminine would be ‘sororizing’. Mater is mother, and thus paired with Pater, which is father. Frater is brother*, thus its feminine equivalent is soror – sister.
But ‘fraternization’ is non-gendered**, and ‘sororization’ is not a word.
* But also the non-gendered ‘sibling’.
** See *.
Fraternization is as non-gendered as he. 😉
But thanks for correcting the whole pater-mater-frater-zorro debacle.
I am intrigued by the concept of zorronizing.
Zorronizing is when you sleep with a masked vigilante and you swipe your sword against the curtains afterwards, like swoosh-swoosh-swoosh, to make a Z. It is a very specific usage, which is the only reason that you’ve never seen it before.
I was just re-reading the sequence where Toedad comes a-calling. Dina says that Sarah is evil; then rewords that to “smart and mean”.
But Mary here is highlighting being actually evil: Demonstrating genuine disproportionate malevolence; sadistic ill-will towards all.
Dine needs to recalibrate her definitions.
My interpretation was that Dina considered Sarah the most evil among readily available allies, and when questioned, gave her reasoning: Smart + Mean => more evil than Becky, Dina, or Joyce.
Dina considers herself smart, but with insufficient practice at being mean (e.g.,”definitely at the mall, and these are not lies”). Joyce, on the other hand, has only been mean in dumb ways, never with rational premeditation. They needed to meticulously ruin Toedad’s life, for the greater good, and Sarah was the only one who’d done something like that before. A smart person faced with a serious problem outside their field of expertise may improvise under time pressure, but will then find and consult an appropriate expert at the next reasonable opportunity.
So, uh…what proof does Mary have? Because here’s the thing: the floor might be scared of Ruth, but I can bet all of them at least lowkey hate Mary in a much more hateful way. Ruth is…Ruth, but Mary is a spiteful, hateful bongo, and I bet they’ve all gotten a bad taste in their mouth from her presence.
And so when it comes down to it, it’s an RA’s word against a freshman who has made a helluva lot of enemies. And it would be very easy to hide Becky’s habitation. Easier to prove Mary is a transphobic, homophobic asshole creating a hostile environment to fellow students.
So…what can Mary actually prove?
Here’s the thing, if Mary does go and tells the higher ups, they’ll have to send someone to investigate just because that’s protocol. Sending someone would mean that Billie would have to move all her clothes back to her room out of Ruth’s. There’s also all of Becky’s clothes that are currently in Billie’s room.
Oh and the shit ton of alcohol both Billie and Ruth probably have lying around.
The thing is, that’s a lot of shit they have to try and fix up in what is probably an hour if the higher ups are competent.
Which of course they aren’t.
How would they even know those are Billie’s clothes? And Becky doesn’t have a whole lot to start with. It’s not that hard, honestly. Stuff everything contraband, including Becky’s clothes, into a few bags, get Becky off campus, let Billie throw most of her shit back into her room and then sit there in her underwear and tee shirt studying or watching Netflix or whatever, meanwhile everyone who cares pools their funds and gets Becky into a local hotel for the time being. (Which, considering the lot of them apparently have expendable funds for pajama jeans, fandom stuff, DVD’s, etc, would not be hard) Ditch the liquor in the nearest recycling bin or whatever.
Mary doesn’t actually have any proof. She has her accusations, and she has her bad language towards her fellow dorm citizens that is honestly not going to help her case.
Becky’s still in that room hiding with…what’s her name. We don’t know how Ruth will react when she finds out that Billie was hiding Becky from her. Becky recently went back to her old college and got her old shit I think, and Dina and Sarah are currently having a tough talk about whether Becky really loves Dina or not.
You know this college, whenever something can go right something else comes along and Toedads the whole situation up.
what’shername is Sal, probably the person most unlikely to rat someone else out to the authorities, be it Becky or Billie or both.
Re: Lapin’s comment
Ruth and Billie have very different body types. You could easily explain different sized over shirts and stuff, but underwear of a different size would point towards cohabitation.
Also, it’s not clear that they’d have any sort of heads up. If the point is that Ruth is being deliquent, they’ll probably show up randomly to check in. Mary could claim they’re coming to trick people into going into “hide Becky” mode, with her staying off campus or whatever only to actually tell the authorities when it’s likely for her to return. They could also just arrange a bunch of solo interviews with the residents, stress the punishments related to being delinquent and imply that some of them have already revealed Becky’s presence. I know Sal hates authority, but I can’t imagine her keeping mum and losing her home and chance at a degree if she thought someone else had already rolled over. And even if they do manage to successfully hide Becky, the amount of stress and pressure it would put on the residents would be huge. Agatha already looked disconcerted just trying to hide her from Ruth. It would become increasingly hard to keep her a secret while dealing with the increasing pressures of school; someone would crack.
I agree that everyone else on the floor would try their best to protect Becky, and Mary doesn’t seem to have much proof, but I think the accusation would make their lives a lot harder.
I don’t think school administrators can comment on a student/employees underwear, even during an investigation. And even if they did, just say “My weight fluctuates a lot.” It’s not like they could make you prove that.
But I agree an investigation would be really likely to turn up SOMETHING incriminating, and Ruth has racked up at least three different types of fireable offense (drinking, sleeping with a student, physically assaulting students). So that seems like a real bad option for her.
Or her underwear must have been in the dryer when I did my laundry.
Interesting point.
If they do send an investigator, who might it be? A new character, or one who might have reason to sympathize? Maybe Leslie?
Leslie: (*writes long, earnestly dull report which translates to: Didn’t see nuthin’ to substantiate the accusations*)
Leslie would be nice. We don’t really see much of her anymore.
Almost certainly not a professor; that’s just not her job at all. It would probably be some mid-tier admin, or likely just the Residence Manager.
Asma maybe?
Mary, Mary, quite contrary, how does your garden grow?
Something something with bells and cockleshells
and femurs on a row.
Officialy Mary is the Devil, I’m sure many of you people can agree on that.
Also, everyone who thinks it’s a great time to still be whining about Carla skating on carpet (not that loud to begin with), maybe perhaps possibly think about… not doing that.
Maybe think about whether that’s such a great point to bring up in the context of this level of transphobia and homophobia and maybe consider whether or not your ability to continue to project your hatred of whatever loud neighbor bothered you X years ago onto Carla really needs to get shared under this context.
And maybe just maybe consider the way that might sit for individuals for whom last comic is a regularly occurring permanent life fixture.
Cause I’ll let you all in on a little secret. It don’t feel great.
^^^^^ THIS. ^^^^^
And I’m sorry the comments section has been rough. 🙁
Not gonna lie. I’m feeling quite a bit fucked up and shaky. Which may be quite apparent for those who are used to more of my cerebral style postings than the incoherent begging I’ve probably been doing most of this evening.
I’ve gotten so used to this kind of crap, but I dunno. I’m still a meatsack at the end of the day. And shit can still get to me.
I’m sorry its getting to you. You don’t deserve to be looked down upon for your identity choices. I want to be helpful, but I don’t have much more than that…
Just a heads up, maybe don’t use the word ‘choice’ to describe gender identity or sexual orientation. Those are not a choice. Just pointing this out in case you’re unaware, I’m not coming for you.
I cannot express enough how much I appreciate you being here. I can barely manage to respond to any of these jackbutts without giving in to frustration and swearing at Ryman. You’re my hero, Cerberus.
please take care of your meatsack it’s important and valuable
I’m sorry to hear that, and I hope by now you feel a bit better.
I agree with you that at this point it’s irrelevant what lead to the current situation, there’s never an excuse for the kind of dehumanization Mary is exhibiting. It was a point that could be made at the time, but right now all that matters is that Mary is trying to take away dignity from someone for simply being who they are, and that is never acceptable, under no circumstance.
And again, I hope you feel better, and please know there’s many here who support you, far more than those that don’t, unfortunately people are much more inclined to respond if they have something horrible to say than to simply show support.
you’re not alone. yesterday’s post was a punch to the gut, even with Ruth sticking up for Carla. and i have made the mistake to actually read comments now, and it’s pretty upsetting, even with some people sticking up for Carla and against transphobia. at the beginning of this arch, i didn’t expect that Mary knew Carla was transgender. i just thought Mary was a jerk. but nope. i was totally wrong. she was being deliberately mean from the get-go because of how transphobic she was, she felt entitled to be as mean as possible. and half of the comments section also feels entitled to be transphobic, so it’s pretty disheartening.
so yeah. Your Anger Is Justified.
It’s a good point you’be already made twice. Some will listen some won’t. Sorry.
I, honestly, hope Ruth calls her bluff and heads down to talk to the Residence Manager and finds out they have a soul–leading to Mary’s evacuation.
That’s exactly why I don’t like it. The issue is resolved because Mary is now the designated villain.
The conflict got replaced with a hate sink. We may as well replace Mary with a cardboard cut out of Hitler.
Seems to me that her fulfilling her role as an antagonist is creating conflict, not removing it?
Yeah, seriously. Creating the villain is far more conflict. Literally nothing has been resolved, It’s just been made 100 times worse.
I’m a pseudo-employed latino from a shitty third world country so I wasn’t really that bothered by an american college kid’s mildly annoyed reaction to their, as a skater entusiast poster said, “possibly more expensive than a car” toy being damaged during a fight they willingly took part in, so I commented on that. That wasn’t intended to mean it’s the most important issue of the story or that people should give more importance to that and ignore what Mary does later. Sorry if you took it that way.
Well, all of my sympathy for Mary getting harassed by Carla vanished the previous cartoon. It was mostly gone when her skates were actively damaged as well. I knew Mary was a bigot but I was hoping she was possessed of a glimmer of basic human decency which might help her overcome it but this is outright evil. For shame, Mary, for shame.
….this will end in murder, I just know it.
Wow Mary you bongo
Bongos are the worst percussion instrument.
Fuck Mary, but, she’s not wrong about Ruth’s behavior. I feel for Ruth, and Billee, and everyone who’s technically breaking the rules with good intentions, but what Ruth needs is serious therapy and probably NOT to be an RA to have time to get herself together, not to just get to do whatever she wants and be a pretty shit RA (and at times general person) just because she’s a compelling character. If she wants to punish Mary for being an asshole, which would be totally totally justified, Ruth would have to be held culpable for her actions, which include a long list of substance abuse, violent behavior towards students, and throwing out her fair share of venom towards people. And, as much as I want Ruth and Billee too be happy, together even, if circumstances improved, what’s going on there has a lot of problems for personal and professional reasons. And Ruth knows it. Should Mary get slapped by karma/a person/regulations against hate speech towards other students for being such a throbbing pustule of a human canker sore? Oh, HELL yes, so much yes, oh please. But Ruth’s high ground could crumble really really fast after everything she’s done, and have serious backlash for her and others.
*Billie, whoops, negative ten points to me
Ruth is mentally troubled and while her behavior is deplorable, it should be treated by a doctor and with sympathy. Carla is a jerk. Mary, however, is a criminal and her behavior is devoid of basic human decency let alone Christian.
That’s why I said Ruth needs time to get herself in a good headspace, probably with therapy, whereas Mary just needs a kick to the ass. But, sympathy doesn’t mean Ruth has carte blanche do whatever she wants. Especially since she clearly knows that at least some of what she is doing, including her relationship with Billie, has some questionable elements. Ruth can, and in some ways should, be held accountable for her bad RA behavior, but hopefully without being demonized and left to spiral into a worse state.
Yeah, it’s the thing. I don’t like Carla’s behavior and it’s jerkish. I think Ruth behaves in an awful abusive manner because of her untreated condition. However, I don’t think either of them deserves anything approach to this. Kind of like 14 year old Sal getting stabbed by Amber. Any sympathy I had for Mary went out when she used hate-speech.
First of let me say Mary’s disgusting transphobia, made worse by the fact it was a calculated remark, is completely beyond the pale. Nothing Carla and Ruth have or haven’t done justifies it. Any reply implying I am justifying or excusing the tranphobia will result me tell you to fuck off.
(A lot of the above comments make me think this is an important clarification to get out there early)
Right
Conflict: Mary and Carla are arguing. Each one escalates the situation further and further. Ruth is the one who is supposed to deal with this, but is compromised by both the fact she has been neglecting her RA duties and actively breaking the rules, plus she previous assaulted Mary.
Tensions, conflict, ambiguity. Arguments on both sides. Something that is the norm for real life.
And then… Mary makes a vile transphobic remark and all the tension drains from the scene. Because we no longer care about her side of anything and most people would literally cheer if she got hit by a bus.
I don’t care about this anymore in the same way I no longer cared about the conflict with Toe-Dad once he drew the gun. And I was right seeing as how easy and silly the resolution was.
I still care about the inner-conflicts. Carla is obviously super emotionally vulnerable in a way we haven’t seen before. And Ruth… with her emotional issues I expect this to totally break Ruth and she leaves next scene without saying a word.
That’s interesting… but now I half suspect they will be given just as neat solutions, that everything will be okay and that Mary will say something vile in front of authority figure, and get owned.
And then her pants fall down in front of everyone.
I have not seen any transphobic remarks, homophobic yes, the “perverted vagrant” is refering to Becky
I was referring to what Mary said in yesterday’s strip, obviously
Personally, I believe that there’s a lot of tension left in the scene. Either way this ends up, there’s going to be some nasty swinging pendulums hanging over people. Carla has gotten a violent reminder of how unsafe her location still remains. Ruth no matter how this resolves is going to be on a razor’s edge with regards to what little she has built. And Becky’s stability has once again been directly threatened. And even if the physical resolution is easy, the emotional fallout will be intense (see how fucked up Joyce is).
Also, minor point, but I will note that the whole gun thing actually was so reminiscent of some people’s experiences that they had to stop reading the comic for awhile because it was so triggering and true to their life experiences, so maybe keep that in mind when using that as an example of tension decreasing?
Not to mention that “Something that is the norm for real life” SURE FUCKING INCLUDES BLATANT TRANSPHOBIA.
No, of course that only exists online, what are you talking about? We live in the enlightened 21st century, that shit doesn’t happen.
So sincere right now, for real y’all.
I apologize, I misphrased that and never meant to imply transphobia isn’t a constant experience in the lives of a majority of trans-people. It’s hard to edit long posts on here and I was in a rush to get to work.
My point (In that specific passage) was simply arguments are normal, this dispute had two sides, then Mary dropped atomic weapons and it became utterly one sided. The transphobia escalated it to a whole other level where she is solely in the wrong.
Yeah. That happens in real life all the time.
Do me a favor. If you have to include that many caveats to make your point, consider whether your point needs to be made. Kthx.
@3-1: A caveat is an exception. I don’t and didn’t make any caveats to my point, I just wasn’t clear with what I meant and posted a correction.
I’m not backing down on what I said, just making what I said clearer.
Do me a favour, know what words mean, make a real argument and get off your high horse.
Thanks
You had to put a whole paragraph of hemming and hawing before you could get to your point, and a whole paragraph of “correction” (really, let’s be honest, “backing down due to being called out”) before you could make your point. If you have to do all that, your argument probably doesn’t need to be made. And just because you use a thesaurus as a dictionary doesn’t mean the rest of us think words can only mean one thing.
You do realize that the entire point of the conflict over skating was to lead up to the larger conflict from the use of Mary’s blackmail material on Ruth, right? Which has been set up from way back.
Mary’s personality, her need to control and her need to get the better of everyone drove the little skating spat. Just as they’re driving the larger conflict with Ruth.
And, now that it’s been revealed that Mary knows Carla is trans, it’s very hard to not see that playing into her reaction to Carla’s antics – even if it wasn’t obvious at the start.
There’s also still ambiguity in the larger conflict, because Ruth really is a problem as RA. But these are the wrong reasons for kicking her out.
Exactly. The “skating in the hall” bit was simply yet another instance of Willis deliberately setting up what we think is going to be a light, funny, drama-free little interlude, only to shout “Psych!” at us and make it dramatic after all. It’s not a matter of tilting the scales in favour of one character or against another. It’s a matter of catching us off-guard, but not, as thejeff points out, completely out of nowhere. Willis always plants the seeds of drama to come well in advance, then has them sprout at the most unexpected moments.
@Alice Macher: The fruit of this seed is not what I was expecting and after the resolution of the prior arc I am worried it will have a rotten core.
@thejeff: Maybe this is just me predicting what is going to happen and then it not happening and me just being unhappy because it doesn’t jibe with my expectations. That is a known cognitive bias.
But for me this started with Ruth smacking Mary across the face. Now Mary was insulting her but still, that is assault. It disturbed me that most readers didn’t care and honestly I was worried even Willis didn’t care. I wanted to see where it was going and it was quickly “obvious” Mary planned revenge via outing her and Billie, a violation of the rules for RAs. For me ostensibly good characters getting a comeuppance for their fuckery is always cool.
If I had to express it my worry is this is now “Mary uses her power to exploit and abuse others” and “Ruth suffers the consequences of her actions” is gone. It’ll be like that assault didn’t matter and never happened.
I really disliked the last arc so my faith is a little shaken. I don’t like to bongo about DOA in the comments. I like 95% of the strips and it’s shitty to regularly bongo when Willis reads the comments. But this plotline is one I have had my eye on so I’ve found this non-resolution a little jarring.
Well, it’s not resolved yet and it’s not all clear that Ruth will come out of it in the clear or unscathed.
Unlike the last story arc, where there never was any ambiguity about who was the good “guy”, things are less clear here. Mary is obviously a baddie. Her motives are all wrong here. She’s trying to get revenge and blackmail and is far more focused on the perversion and depravity than on the actual problems with Ruth as RA.
That said, those problems exist and there’s definitely going to be fallout if she reveals them, whatever her motives. Ruth isn’t the wronged innocent here. Unlike Becky.
And then… Mary makes a vile transphobic remark and all the tension drains from the scene.
No. All the tension flooded the scene. Before, it was Wile E. Coyote/Road Runner antics. Now, it’s deadly serious.
One thing I take comfort out of this is Mary is a psychopath it seems in she doesn’t seem to UNDERSTAND empathy. Either giving it or that other people would feel it. Does she really think the university would kick out Becky after what is probably a NATIONAL scandal?
“If evil wasn’t nice, nobody would bother with it.” … Mary. I don’t think she is a psychopath, she has just locked herself into a fight against what she has been told is evil.
What a twatwaffle
Ruth had better go Ren Hoek on Mary with this: “You!” Then the “filthy swine” part, which kinda ticks em off. Mary ain’t gonna threaten Ruth… Well, Mary challenged Ruth’s authority, same thing Billie did when her cheerleader uniform was vandalized.
I think it’d be hilarious if the Residence Manager is someone who doesn’t care about any of this and ignored all of Ruth’s previous behavior so Mary’s blackmail is worthless.
If I may make a comics comparison. The Mad Hatter and Two-Face are both awful people. Two-Face being actually mentally ill and one of the few people who belongs in a asylum (just not Arkham).
But the Joker is in a class of his own.
Mary is the Joker who wore his own face.
It’s unfortunate that Carla didn’t just fucking shit talk her or something. Because Mary has basically nothing on her. What’s she going to do? Tell people Carla was skating down the halls with no evidence? If anything, if Mary went to tell on her, Carla could say “Mary gunked up my skates with bullshit. Here’s the proof on my feet” And what can Mary do then? Not only that but Carla could basically use the fact that Mary was acting transphobic towards her and pepper that in to any authority figure. I’m not 100% sure how that’d go, but seeing as how she’s allowed a room on the girl’s wing I’m led to believe the people are at least a little liberal. If anything, Ruth’s involvement made this situation more complex than it needed to be.
It seems that Carla’s really sensitive about her trans-ness. By what we know already, Carla seems to kinda fear Mary’s reaction will be the norm.
Also,
DUMBING OF AGE:
More complex than it needed to be.
active misgendering, like what mary did and is doing, is an act of violence.
it’s not being sensitive if you’re getting stabbed.
Yeah pretty much this, she’s not being sensitive (though I don’t think any offence was meant) she’s being told that her very identity is an affront. Anyone would struggle to deal with that. Especially if you know a non-negligible section of the population actually feels that way.
are you talking about Mary or about Mr. Random re: offence meant? because, like, Mary definitely did mean for offence to get taken. offence was the entire point of her statements. Mr Random I don’t know as well.
I mean that Carla actually seems to be sensitive about her identity, even when people aren’t actively trying to bully her about it.
Keeping that in mind, it hurts Carla that much more when Mary is doing this.
Also, while it’s an a HUUUUUUUUGE jackass move, it’s not an act of violence. It’s bullying. Severe and pointed bullying meant to target someone’s insecurities. But still bullying. Not violence.
I say this because calling it an act of violence can justify using violence against someone like Mary. And that should never be the case, because then they become more closed off. More sure of themselves.
misgendering is an act of verbal violence that is deeply harmful to the person being misgendered. Carla is worried about hate crimes not because she’s sensitive, but because she’s vulnerable to them. i don’t know if you’ve been reading many of the comments on this page, but several trans people have made it quite clear the physical violence they have suffered because they have claimed their identities.
Mary is in no position to be harmed here especially when Carla was the one being threatened???
I have. And I’d still consider it bullying if she hasn’t literally told anyone yet. Spreading it around campus, specifically to people likely to actually hurt her? That I’d say was verbal violence.
But this isn’t.
It directly affects her and seriously hurts her, but emotionally.
Again, I’m saying NO ONE should be hurt.
I don’t care if it is literally the most vile asshole on the planet.
You don’t hurt people just because they ARE being assholes.
You report them, you tell others, hell, shame them publicaly.
But violence leads to more violence.
Imagine if Carla actually got into a fight here with Mary.
The ONLY thing stopping Mary from revealing Carla’s birth sex, is that she’s getting what she wants.
And while she still hasn’t done anything to report, Ruth knows.
If Carla and Ruth went down to the main office to report her, something would actually get done. Mary may actually get kicked out, and even then if she spilled the beans on Ruth OR Carla, they could claim she’s just being vindictive and lying.
Again, I’m not saying this threat isn’t a terrible, horrible, awful thing to do. It is.
But calling it an act of violence… It’s too far. Too soon.
It makes it easier to justify physical violence.
And
While it may seem cheesy,
And it may not seem realistic sometimes.
Violence is never the answer.
Hitting people, getting into fights?
It’s messy, and just ends up hurting both people.
If they want to truly deal with Mary, they need the faculty on their side.
I meant Mr Random of course, Mary clearly mean for offence to be taken
Sometimes words really can hurt. This is one of those times. Carla is too hurt and stunned to fight back with her usual brand of lovable assholery.
can somebody help me see the alt-text on mobile?
It should pop up if you click the little blue box between the comic itself and the first banner add, at least that’s how it works for me.
thx
Actually, I could never find this blue box.
is it on Android?
does it have a label?
Isn’t she speculating? I mean, spot on speculating, but doesn’t she not know these things for facts?
Matters very little if she’s close enough to the truth to get under Ruth’s skin. At this point, she has no incriminating evidence, true, so it’s her word against Ruth’s if they decide to take it to the manager. Otherwise, she has enough information to give the impression of knowing everything and make a compelling threat.
Ruth better bark back hard from that. Marys smug assface needs to be taken down a notch. Ugh i was waiting for this update all day and after the day i had this is not the page i needed, maybe tomorrow will have the carla justice i need.
Also as much as i hate marys stupid face i, its really damn cute in panel 4
As a Christian, I just want to say that Mary does not fit into my definition of my faith. No matter your moral views, manipulation, intimidation and her other preferred behaviours are about as far from the way Christians are supposed to act as you can get. Frankly, the level of hate and unchristian behaviour that people ascribe to their religious faith horrifies me sometimes.
Unfortunate, then, that you don’t get to decide who’s a heretic.
I guess you didn’t get that memo…
I will get my coat.
Might be a case of ‘missing the point’ or something, but I’m just amazed that Mary has unintentionally let Carla in on Ruth and Billie being a thing. As we’ve seen with Dina, declaring something in an area with another person there doesn’t always mean the other person just ignores it. If Ruth does just walk away (I’m rather skeptical about if she really does but we will see) I predict Carla stepping up right afterwards to call Mary out. And if Ruth stays I’m sure Carla will then try to back Ruth up, after the initial shock of Mary’s bongoiness wears off.
Mary’s a bongo, but you gotta admit, she knows how to stir shit up and create a conflict. Now Ruth knows about Becky (sorry Billie, I foresee a fight/trust issues due to you keeping it secret) and Carla knows about Ruth/Billie (and Becky unless she already knew). I’m still eagerly awaiting Joyce’s trip home, but now I’m interested in how this conflict is gonna be resolved.
Wow. That is an objectively terrible person.
“defiling the cheerleader”, “fraternizations”, “perverted vagrant”?
I had a good chuckle at these phrases. Did Mary step straight out of the 1950s?
It seems that Mary is the McCarthy version of Amazigirl.
How can you defile a cheerleader?
Well, you take de file and you file her nails. Then you paint them with some nice french tips or pretty colors or something. Maybe rub some scented lotion on her hands. Massage them a bit.
Cheerleaders deserve manicures too.
Right, she can’t talk to her that way, horrible horrible Mary. While purposely making noise in the hallway and being an ass about it is such a saint behavior. I seriously find Carla much more annoying in this situation.
Leosapiens, some commenters are going to read your post and immediately label you transphobic. I’m not going to do that. I’m transgender, and I think you might not realize just how painful Mary’s comment can be. Mary’s comment was like punching Carla in the stomach. Heck, Carla probably would have preferred the punch. When my own wife tells me, “You’re a wonderful man,” she means it as a compliment, but it still hurts. I don’t want to be wonderful at being a man.
(Projecting here a little, but…) Carla has always wanted to be just one of the girls. Her life’s dream is something most women take for granted. She reaches a point where she can finally be comfortable with herself and her surroundings. She considers the dorm a safe place, where she can be a girl around other girls. Even when Carla does bad things (like skating in the halls), it’s progress – earlier in life, she probably wouldn’t have been comfortable putting herself out there like that. She had to feel safe before she could be assertive enough to break the rules. And then Mary tells her, “You’re not who you think you are, and you don’t belong here.” And on some level Carla believes her, even though Mary is an evil witch, because Mary’s repeating the fears that are already bouncing around Carla’s subconscious.
I don’t think anyone is saying Carla is without sin. But Mary’s slur is exponentially worse, to the point that Carla’s transgression is now just a blip on the horizon. Trans people make mistakes just like everyone else. If a mistake warrants punishment, fine, but focus on the crime. There’s no call to question her gender identity. Play the ball, not the player.
I actually missed the entire plot point of Carla being trans… Like entirely o_o
I think I might not be a very observant reader *facepalm*. So I figured the whole “boy’s wing” thing was Mary calling her a slut or something, and wasn’t sure what the hell was Ruth overreacting about.
Looking back, yes that is a pretty awful thing to say.
Ah. After I posted that wall of text, it occurred to me that might be the case.
It’s not about Carla being some unapproachable saint, it’s that she doesn’t, and under no circumstances ever would, deserve transphobia.
It is okay to think Carla was previously being an annoying butthole. Nobody thinks you’re a bad person for that, but you have to acknowledge that regardless of Carla’s actions, which amount to little more than being kind of a pest, she doesn’t deserve to be attacked for being trans.
I actually missed the entire plot point of Carla being trans… Like entirely o_o
I think I might not be a very observant reader *facepalm*. So I figured the whole “boy’s wing” thing was Mary calling her a slut or something, and wasn’t sure what the hell was Ruth overreacting about.
Looking back, yes that is a pretty awful thing to say.
It is fairly telling that most everyone who has said “so what is the big deal” immediately turned that around when they found out the Carla was trans and that Mary was engaging in hate speech.
I seriously doubt that anyone actually trans/homophobic would stick around in this here comic for this long.
You’d be surprised. They might not stick around as in bingereading the comic out of any enjoyment of the material, but they do pop up every now and then to try to convince people that Willis is a dangerous heretic.
It’s also extremely heartening.
It is heartening… but we’re also on a message board for fans of a comic strip that caters to somewhat liberal values. I’m not surprised to see that most DoA fans are supportive of GLBT issues. I’m afraid this discussion would probably turn out different on many (if not most) other message boards.
It must be nice to live in a world where you can ignore hate speech so easily. I wish I could too. But I can’t. Nobody like Carla or Ruth can.
And it isn’t because hate speech is “annoying.”
Please try to have compassion. Because you’re sorely lacking it now.
I actually missed the entire plot point of Carla being trans… Like entirely o_o
I think I might not be a very observant reader *facepalm*. So I figured the whole “boy’s wing” thing was Mary calling her a slut or something, and wasn’t sure what the hell was Ruth overreacting about.
Looking back, yes that is a pretty awful thing to say.
I don’t care what happens right now and long as it isn’t Ruth bowing her head and walking away. That would break my heart.
I still don’t think this loses something from Mary being so underdeveloped. I mean, there’s not been a strip where she spoke and didn’t demonstrate herself being hateful, bitter and/or bigoted. Up until this recent sequence, she barely seemed like a student.
I’m not defending her – there is very little to defend. She’s got all the depth of an atheist in a Chick Tract or an Adam4d strip. I’m just saying, this would carry more weight if it’d been said by a character in whom I was already invested – though it’s partly balanced out because the person being hurt, Carla, *is* someone in whom I’m invested.
Dammit, typo. That first “don’t” should not be there.
Surely she’ll just take Mary down anyway and damn the consequences? What’s her line “Act with integrity, no matter what.”? She was willing to die in a car crash but she’ll be afraid of losing her job? I think Mary has massively underestimated Ruth. And she is going to pay for it!
I second your prediction. Although the “integrity”-line was in another continuity, as you might recall.
She’s still the same Ruth though, willing to do the right thing no matter what it costs her.
I guess we’ll find out.
Lmao I love how evil Mary’s grin looks on that last panel
It’s the grin of someone with a future in politics or civil law: “I win and I love it!”
This is largely aside, but part of me wonders if Mary -really- doesn’t believe in the validity of transgenderism, or if she doesn’t actually care in general and just used hate speech solely for the sake of doing the most damage to someone who annoyed her. Presumably Mary was aware of Carla before this, yet we have no knowledge of her trying to raise a stink until now.
It’s utterly vile either way, and actually I’m not sure which is the MORE vile of the two, lest anyone think this is some sort of roundabout attempt at defense of Mary. She’s indefensible. She’s vile and terrible and evil and WRong with a capital WR. Just to be clear on that.
CONTENT WARNING: TRANSPHOBIA
Oh, I’m sure she’s being genuinely 100% all natural organic transphobic here. Now whether she is so because she genuinely believes they are damned to Hell or simply revels in her social power over them is a different matter, but I have no doubt she views Carla as a “fake woman”.
To be honest, today’s comic feels refreshing, which I’m aware is a very privileged stance given how relatable today’s scene is to a lot of readers. It’s nice to have a nigh objectively evil character I can hate that isn’t waving a gun around.
If I were Ruth, I’d remind Mary that the thing about Mutually Assured Destruction is that mutual destruction is assured.
Yeah, she takes down Ruth, maybe leaves Carla with emotional scars and destroys what little Becky has left in her life. However, she goes through the rest of her college career known as one of those people. She won’t have any friends; people won’t trust her and they won’t help her. She’ll graduate, maybe, under a cloud and that reputation of connivance and pettiness will follow her everywhere.
Seriously, woman, do you really want to have the details of this mess on your permanent record? Do you want to have the media ask you why you had this young woman who was nearly murdered by her mad father turfed out on the street, your face instantly known across Indiana as that petty monster? Do you want the ‘sensitivity’ course forced on you as a condition of your continued presence at IU? Do you want to go to a job interview one day and have the interview panel bring this up and ask you pointed questions about your ‘commitment to diversity’? Let me tell you that, if you insist on making this official, all these things and more will befall you..
I don’t think she cares about having friends. At least from what we’ve seen of her.
That’s not how it works. Why would the media go after Mary? 1) She’s not responsible, legally, for whether or not Becky gets to stay in the dorm; the university is. She wouldn’t be directly involved in any decision to evict Mary, she’s just some random student who snitches to the relevant authorities — why would the media hold her responsible for what is ultimately the university’s decision?; 2) The university would (perhaps, IANAL) be within their rights to evict Becky anyway — which might not stop the media from drumming it up into a scandal, but at least it gives them less of a case and so decreases the probability of that happening.
As for friends — sure, Mary isn’t the most pleasant person in the world, but there are lots of people out there with similar values and personalities who might be more than willing to let a thing like this slide. The world isn’t this righteous place where everybody gets their just desserts, as I’m sure you’re aware.
Eh, if it does get major attention like that, she’ll be assured of a spot on Fox News.
Or some other wingnut welfare – she could make hay in the RW circles with stories of being beaten by a big angry bisexual, with a bit of fact massaging.
The fact massaging would happen over time.
What’s she studying, anyway?
Tomorrow: Mary kicks a puppy, just for good measure.
into a burning orphanage
Made of the dead orphans parents
It would have to be an atheist puppy into a secular orphanage set on fire with a lightning bolt from a clear blue sky. But yes, she would totally punt that puppy.
alright, what did Mary say that was so offensive in the last one? Was it cut or something? It seems like an insult to say “You belong with the boys!” sure, but not even a good one.
I can’t recall if it has been said in-comic outside of hints, but it may because Carla is actually trans-sexual
Carla is transgender, so Mary saying she belongs with the boys is an intentional attack on her gender identity and status as a woman. It’s a super fucked up thing to say to a trans person.
Carla is trans.
Now, while I won’t condone actual murder, it might benefit a lot of people if Mary at least went missing for a while. Carla can be Ruth’s alibi
Dammit Willis, I’ve been conditioned by your other rounded characters – and suspicions re Mary’s ever-present wrist coverings (seriously, she wears those things everywhere, it’s like Sal’s gloves) – to expect some kind of tragic backstory reveal any time now. Don’t make me feel sorry for Mary!
(…too late anyway. Eh, I’m squishy, so sue me.)
Incidentally, I just went back and checked to confirm what I’d been thinking – today (as in, this comic day) is the first time we’ve ever seen Mary’s wrists. The only time she hasn’t been explicitly shown with the wristbands – including undressed/in nightwear – was when she was wearing a long, cuffed sleeve. She even had them on with the same type of sleeve she’s currently wearing, but “today” she doesn’t. Significant, or red herring?
I was thinking the sleeves were too long, but her wrists are pretty open. At the least the space her wristbands usually cover is freed up.
Kinda bummed to see that theory killed, actually.
Yup, it’s dead.
http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/137773473122/youre-probably-aware-of-the-mary-is-hiding-wrist
OK, looks like I’m going to have to go check again. Don’t want to contradict Willis on his own comic, but I went through the entire tagged history today…
Mmnope, I just went through them all again (fortunately she hasn’t been in that many strips!) and there isn’t a single one before this chapter where she isn’t wearing either her wristbands or a cuffed sleeve. The closest I can find is one where her cuffs are slipping down slightly as she’s sitting outside her room waiting for Roz & Riley to leave.
Eh. I guess Sal’s gloves just made me put two and two together and come up with five. Stick a fork in this one, it’s done.
Yeah, I don’t recall any point before this arc where we got any look at her wrists.
Honestly, I thought it was a really cool way to interpret her character, so it sucks that it’s no longer viable.
Maybe she just gets, like, really really sweaty in warm weather. Or they’re weird oversized WWJD bands or something.
Officially been Jossed.
Damn you Willis.
Why do we let “people” like Mary exist, again?
Because once we start dehumanizing people, it tends to foster an attitude where the dehumanization doesn’t stop…
For our entertainment, scary isn’t it.
Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure Mary would ask the same question about Carla.
I hate Mary, but she’s well-written, which is why I’m enjoying the storyline. I just wish Mary’s brand of evil was confined to fiction. I’ve run into way to many Mary’s in real life, some of whom are in my own family.
Because, as Jon Stewart (RIP) used to say, we live in a society.
Yes, but society is also supposed to prevent people from ever becoming the way Mary is, i.e. horrible to everyone else.
No. It isn’t supposed to stop people from becoming like Mary. It does however put some limits on how much they can bother everyone else who wants nothing to do with them.
That is perhaps arguable, but even if its true, we might want to severely constrain the methods society can legitimately employ in its attempt to prevent people like Mary from being around. Constrain them so severely, that is, that we are forced to accept that they are fallible.
Because you can’t just kill people for being awful. That leads to mob mentality and lynchings and all that stuff. You realize that if we were allowed “get rid of” everybody we didn’t like, Carla could be dead right now. Because there are still a ton of people who think that transgendered people shouldn’t exist, and could definitely rally up enough people to go on a killing spree if they knew that they wouldn’t get in trouble for it, because everybody supports them. Mary’s despicable, yeah. But if you can just kill her off because you don’t like her and not face any consequences, then my classmates back in Georgia could have killed me when I was a kid because I read Harry Potter and people thought I was a lesbian and to them, that makes me as bad as I think Mary is right now.
Kill, no. Force her to confront the fact that hating someone for something harmless is wrong no matter whether it’s mandated by a god until she stops being such a horrible person, yes.
Anyone want any more bongos?
I love bongos.
Why not banjos?
That night, Mary wakes up to Sal and Sarah pinning her down in her bed and Dina sitting on her chest and snarling. Joyce, shrouded in shadows off to the side, says only “we know where you sleep”.
The gambit fails because college isn’t actually the Nights Watch, but live the dream…
843 comments. Damn. I don’t think I’ve seen this many on one page, ever. Even on gender-issue pages there’s max ~500.
I mean, I get it, Mary’s being what we expect her to be. Rowdy waters on the horizon. But this reaction is unexpected, even from us. Though I find it even odder that the previous page has comments closed… don’t think I recall one like it – at least not that I noticed.
I forget the specific number, but I’m pretty sure we’ve topped 1500 before.
During the “twin’s mom is racist” arc he closed the comments to at least one, but maybe even more strips.
Its still going up, its only been 8 hours since it was posted.
Comments seem to be a wee bit broken for me. Can’t really post properly.
You’re doing fine.
yesterday when i tried to read comments. it was closed for some reason.
but that comic did leave me a feeling of dread. like she was going to let something horrible happen to Carla. Yes Carla is pretty stupid. but she doesn’t deserve that!
Now Mary is blackmailing the RA WHO got acress to her room easily and even taunting her? it is just Evil. and it will come back to bite her arse.. hard.
it was closed because willis wanted to prevent trolls before they sprung up
Okay, I’m not on Team Carla by any chance but I’m definitely on Team anyone But Mary. Two rotten people being wrong to each other just became an two assholes VS someone more vile than Amber’s dad!
One thing I’ve thought of that I haven’t seen mentioned. This school is really worried about looking bad. It’s filming sex in the dorm looks bad.
Do you know what also would look bad? Kicking out the victim of a highly publicized abuse case while she’s trying to find more permanent residence. The headlines pretty much write themselves.
The thing with Leslie would be a godsend to the university, and might even be how they can work out letting Becky go to school at the university. Instead of being called kicking her out, the story would be about how great the school is for giving the victim a chance.
And then Leslie should be allowed by
GodWillis to get together with Daisy as a reward for being so awesome.This, all of this, please Willis.
Jesus, I’m actually super thankful for Willis closing the comments yesterday. I have no idea why people are being so harsh towards Carla or saying that she’s somehow “worse” or “in the wrong” compared to Mary, who, by all means, is a Million Times Worse. Carla’s sin was being annoying, Mary’s is fucking horrible transmisogynistic, bigoted comments and now to top it off fucking blackmail to avoid facing any repercussions for her behaviour, like.
Im guessing all the comments would have been ¨FUCK YOU MARY¨
Sadly, Willis was talking about how he woke up to a giant flood of a-holes ranting about ess-jay-doubleyous, so I imagine if comments had gone up, it would have been nothing but that for an hour and a half, which would have been… fun. Super fun.
Darn you, Cerberus. So I had to find out what ess-jay-doubleyous were, and there went two hours of my time, never to return.
She could have asked politely? Like, no one is pointing out that Carla was being a jerk, but she immediately escalated with CAN YOU NOT??? if she had spoke calmly, Carla would have felt like a jerk, stopped, AND THIS WOULD BE OVER!
Carla doesn’t deserve all this hate, and if someone’s argument about the original incident is based around “politeness”re: rolling around, surely that same politeness should be applied to Mary’s response TO Carla.
This was meant to be a reply to a post about things Carla did/didn’t do to escalate the original situation.
Well, if she’d been polite Carla would have continued. “Fuck Mary” is sound policy for her. But Ruth would have told her to knock it off (Because of course she would, she doesn’t actually put up with petty disruptions all that much). Frankly I’m 80% sure she was following the stomps to ram Carla through a wall when she heard Mary be the worst human being in their building.
Oh, very much so. Her earlier motion through the hall had all the telltale signs of her being on the warpath, so I’m sure that’s exactly what her intention was.
Fuck off mary.
To start off:
Mary is awful, and her presence is more of a disruption than a hundred hopping roller-skaters. Her views are bigoted and horrible, and her behaviour and personality aren’t any better.
Carla deserves the right to a living space free of hate or fear, and should 100% receive the full support of any authority brought into this scene (morally, I mean, the fictional administration might handle this badly, as many/most real-life college administrations would.
All that being said, the content of some of these comments are pretty upsetting. I understand the desire to vent, especially when confronted with characters and situations that reflect things in one’s real life. But, speaking as someone with something of a history with verbal abuse and aggressive threats as a daily reality, reading through hundreds of comics with a liberal amount of threats and wishes of bodily harm, is no fun at all. I’ve been flinching like a fool over here.
So, if I’m saying anything (which to be fair, is always doubtful), it’s this: I understand and fully support your dislike or hatred for this character, and her views and actions. But if, when expressing that hatred or dislike, you decide to limit yourself to not using threats of bodily harm, that would make these comments a more welcoming place for myself (and, I’m assuming, some other people who share my own charming neuroses and personal history).
This might be a case of shutting the door after the horse has bolted, or being overly focused on people’s tone, but I thought I’d put it out there. Feel free to say I’m just being a wimp, though, it’s probably true.
Could people please stop hating on other people here?
Ok look. I think that 20 strips or so Carla was in the wrong for skating in the hallway to anmoy her roommate. That’s just an annoying thing to do and yes, she was being a jerk.
I think that every comic since then when Mary escalated and then brought hate comments into it she’s been in the wrong. So in the wrong I want to punch her in the face.
I don’t think what Carla did in any way deserves what Mary did to her. Mary is a horrible person in so so many ways. She is definitely the worst person in these comments.
And I think that a lot of people who are being accues ed of defending Mary of defending Mary are saying the same. Not trying to defend Mary here.
But people should be allowed to say Carla was in the wrong 20 comics ago without being called aholes automatically.
Whoops defending was supposed to be in quotes there.
That distinction has been made pretty clear, though.
Prior to yesterday’s strip, the two of them were just being jerks to each other and escalating the situation.
Then Mary decides to say the most vile, transphobic shit to Carla. At that point it’s impossible to say “they both have good points” because Mary just went for the absolute lowest blow she could. It’s not equivalent anymore. Prior to that, sure, they were both just being jackasses, but Mary took it to a completely unacceptable place.
Thank you for articulating this better than I could. Having different opinions is one thing, but it’s always uncomfortable when people begin placing each other in various extremes because of those differences. Say anything negative about Carla’s behaviour and be accused of defending Mary. Share actual experiences with persecution from bigots like Mary and be accused of taking things too personally.
It’s a form of dehumanising fellow commenters that border on personal attacks and just make the comments unnerving to read. Can’t we just leave those discussions to their respective strips and unite in how unabashedly malevolent Mary is in this one?
Thanks! Love to! Mary is so malevolent in this comic, I’m expecting an evil villain cackle out of her any second. Wait for it…..
It is eerie how suitable an imaginary twirly mustache looks on her face in these panels.
Oh gosh! You’re right!
Wow, Mary had the audacity to expect to be able live and study where she paid for, a place with rules that made sure all students were able to enjoy certain aspects such as quiet hallways. How dare she get upset that an asshole kept rollerskating and stomping outside her door just to spite her even though she first asked politely for quiet?
Don’t get me wrong, she acted like a bigoted asshole, but the leverage she’s got is true, and she literally tried to do anything else first.
Some bozos in here ask why she didn’t ask to be moved elsewhere. Why, because someone is abusing and disregarding rules? If anyone should move it’s Carla, to a place where people don’t mind her acting like a noisy asshole.
Yes, Carla /should/ move in an ideal world (Where we pretend screwing Mary over in a minor way isn’t a completely legitimate goal on its own merits for a queer woman). If she doesn’t though, you either have to call an RA or similar to make her, or you move. You don’t do any of the horse shit Mary pulled after she asked. If you’re an actual adult, you learn to deal with what you have – and let’s not kid ourselves, Carla wasn’t all that loud. It’s just skating on carpet. Yeah, it’s not like it’s stone silent, and yeah, it’s kind of annoying, but it’s a fucking college dorm. You have people stomping about above, below, and tot he side, parties, impromptu parties, folks chattering in the common room (WHICH IS THERE FOR CHATTERING), and a thousand other noises.
Yeah, Carla’s kind of fucking annoying, but the adult thing to do is deal with it in a proper way. And this isnt’ some sort of idiotic maturity-test deal. This is self-care. You learn what sorts of noises may actually require outside intervention, and what’s understandable and oh-well, and put on some headphones or bail to a seperate space (And it’s a fucking college campus, it has numerous spaces designed for quiet study). If you try to escalate with everyone making noise, you are never going to get shit done, and you will be reviled for good reasons (BECAUSE PEOPLE NEED MORE OF THOSE WITH MARY). And you will also be an enormous dick at best, and that’s far more ‘best case’ than Mary got.
Carla’s an asshole, but Mary’s a bigger one by every definition, even only accounting for her actions before yesterday and in this exchange with Carla. Also: I’m not ‘asking why Mary didn’t move’. I know why; she’s a bully, and she wanted a bully pulpit. She wanted an excuse to be a bastard to Carla. It’s fucking obvious from her actions. She wants to win everything.
Not letting a student study is not screwing them over in a minor way. If Mary failed she’d have to pay for another year worth of tuition. We’re talking an average 50,000 dollars for three years. Do 16,600 thousand dollars and one year of your life sound like minor pestering to you?
She was loud enough to be heard distinctly across the hallway and inside a room. And when she found out she is annoying someone who wants to study she kept at it because she was an asshole.
Study rooms exist on every floor of dorm buildings and a dedicated larger study areas exists on the bottom floor of every dorm. Most other buildings also have study areas. Unless Mary suffers from a horrible disability which physically blocks her ability to move even with mechanical aid, she’s not in threat of failing for having to withstand extremely quiet carpet shuffling noises (Willis confirmed that the noise Carla was making was on carpet and relatively quiet).
And seriously, if you’re going to fail out of school because of someone skating in the hall in the middle of the day. Once. Fairly briefly, until you made a huge deal of it. Then you’re going to fail. How are you going to deal with people chatting in the hall. With people playing music next door. With parties. With having a roommate who ever does anything. People having sex next door.
College dorms are not perfectly silent temples to scholarship. They’re inhabited by loud, obnoxious, teenagers. They can’t be. You have to be able to deal with it. Block it out. Focus past it. Do your studying elsewhere.
If Carla had been blasting music so the walls were shaking. If she’d been screaming at the top of her lungs in the hall or banging on the door or walls. Then there’d be justification for getting someone (RA/hall manageer/etc) to intervene because of the noise.
As it was, it reads far more as “Mary gets the chance to hassle someone she doesn’t like” with the added bonus that it’s the trans girl.
A dedicated and prolonged campaign to prevent Mary from studying would indeed not be minor, but 10 or 20 minutes in a semester is a pretty small deal even if Mary has literally no recourse but to accept it. 10 minutes always sounds like a small part of my life.
Of course, Mary /does/ have recourse. She can move.
Excuse the fuck out of me, but are you REALLY comfortable with the fact you’re saying “preventing someone from studying I’ve afternoon can ruin their lives forever” while downplaying the effects of transphobic and lesbophobic hate speech?
Your hyperbole is offensive, please stop.
I feel sorry on your behalf. That you had to explain this. again.
You are 100% right.
( Ive been saying the same things since the arc started )
Dont feel you need to be the jack-ass whisperer to every self-entitled, straight person …who feels their privilege to own the world is eroded by an Imaginary Trans Woman on roller skates.
“She’s skating so loud, I cant feel my Gender & sexual-Orthodoxy hegemony. Its melting”
Mary’s rights do not extend to turning a blind eye to crimes she commits. Assault, vandalism, and blackmail, for a start. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that there were more which happened off-camera.
I can sympathize with the problem of noisy neighbors, but I cannot sympathize with escalating the problem.
Nor do I, but let’s face it, Carla could de-escalate the entire thing, go to Mary and demand her money back for the skates, or she’d report her for vandalism.
But Nope! STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMP
The entire thing escalated into who could be the bigger asshole and get away with it. Sorry, Mary won.
Mary won but by escalating to a whole new level, like getting in a sparring fight and then winning by biting an ear.
Most dorms have established quiet hours for the hallways and normally they don’t start until around 9 or 10pm (in my experience). Seeing how it is the middle of the day with students going to and from class Mary is not entitled to the halls of her dorm to be as quiet as a library. If she prefers/needs a more quiet environment to study she shouldn’t be in her room since a few weeks is enough time to figure out the base level of volume on your floor. Her family is paying for her to live on campus not have her dorm be the only location she can study.
Mary needs a theme song. Nananannanan Mary the dick! Wait, no, no batman themesoong for her, how about; We hate her! Its Mary! Suck a dick!
Agreed. Definitely no Batman for Mary.
The decent thing for Ruth to do would be to resign and not give in to the blackmail. The University can work with Becky to find a place to live. Maybe Ruth can get help with her alcoholism and anger issues. Otherwise, what happens if Mary gets her way? Becky still won’t stay hidden that long and Carla will have to listen to anti trans crap. With Ruth out of the way, Mary can be dealt with by either the school or the other girls on the floor.
I hope Ruth gets to keep her job, but this might end bad between her and Billie.
Also because Billie hasn’t told her about Becky living in her room.
Mary’s overplayed her hand. Considering how volatile their relationship started and how they’re now keeping up appearances, no one on that floor (and likely anywhere else) will believe that Ruth and Billie are a couple. As for Becky, if the campus finds her there, all anyone has to do is claim that she’s someone’s guest. All they have to do is avoid having more than one person claim she’s their guest at any one time.
Mary’s right about Ruth being a terrible RA… But she doesn’t really mention the real offenses that Ruth is guilty of. She doesn’t mention Ruth’s tendency for violence and intimidation. She does mention Ruth’s unethical relationship with Billie but implies that the thing wrong with it is the same sex nature of it. (As opposed to the power difference). She implies that Becky is wrong for being here because she’s a “perverted vagrant” not because it shows Ruth is apathetic to what’s going on in the hall.
She seems much more interested in being hateful than actually doing anything to deal with Ruth.
Mary is definitely more concerned with a “moral argument” than anything.
Which I think is kind of a bummer, as there’s legit reasons to hate Ruth and think Ruth deserves to be fired but that’s only being seen from Mary, and who’s going to side with Mary. She’s a total asshole.
Man, I gotta respect Mary. She’s so Christlike!
bruh.jpg
A part of me says this is where Mary wants to be.
Fair do’s, Carla being noisy is a mark against Carla. However, if Mary had wanted a peaceful resolution to the affair, she could have used her leverage with Ruth right there and then.
But no, she had to go the vigilante route with the glue (boundary nr 1 being overstepped) then “escorting” Carla to the Boy’s wing. Carla has a legitimate right to a room in the girl’s wing; it was allocated to her by the College authorities. So that’s boundary nr 2.
Now Mary’s attempted blackmail of Ruth to try and force her own will on Carla, and subvert College rules. Carla is in the right at this point – all she has to do is go to the College to enforce her rights. Mary won’t have a leg to stand on.
At this point, Mary is in the wrong having lost all claim to any moral ground by her actions.
this.
Mary wants to be able to do everything and anything Mary wants to do. she wants unlimited power. and this is her way to get it.
Duh duh duhhhhhhhhhh
I have to say, even though Mary’s eyes are brown, they almost look evil red. Not surprising considering she pretty much is.
Also, I didn’t get a chance to respond yesterday, but I had absolutely no idea Carla was trans until I read the responses to my comment yesterday. Ruth’s anger at Mary’s shameful comments make perfect sense now.
Mary is overlooking something major. Blackmail is a serious crime, which she’s committing in front of a witness. And that’s completely irrespective of everything else she’s done.
If Ruth gets caught out, she might get penalized, such as being removed from the RA position. If Mary gets caught out, she will get charged with an actual crime. Ruth still has the advantage here if she stops and thinks about it.
And then a steamroller fell on Mary.
tfw you’ve just been out-bongoed
For real though, I remember when I had an RA who didn’t follow rules, and I wasn’t very happy about it. I share Mary’s desire to uphold rules and strike down illegal activity. So she’s not wrong to be making these accusations towards Ruth. But she’s also doing in the bongoiest way possible, and she knows it, and she LOVES it. So yeah, screw her.
Come on guys! Lets hit 1k comments!
I posted that comment at 8:24, why did the time change for it?
Didn’t Becky just enroll?
We’re know she wants to enroll but it is probably too late for her to get into Fall classes now. Earlier Becky said she was reading the text book from Dina’s Bio class; I think she’s still just sitting in on them.
Also, Becky doesn’t have the money to enroll or audit yet.
Nope, she didn’t enroll in the school. She’s living there illegally
So I suppose Mary’s behavior is, in a way, a threat to all trans people: step out of line in anyway whatsoever, then the slam-hammer comes down and you’ll be back to where you started.
1k comments reached.
Someone’s asking for a butt kicking!
Get Amazing Girl!
Ooooh – wow.
I was totally confused by yesterday’s comic. I think partially because I never picked up on any of the hints about Carla, and partially because I wasn’t expecting Mary to be nearly that evil.
I hoping to find enlightenment in the comments, and was confused again that comments were closed. But it makes sense. This is one of the very few places on the web where “don’t read the comments” doesn’t apply, and I’d like to keep it that way.
I’m actually glad now I _didn’t_ get it yesterday. I was having a crappy morning anyway, and it would have hit way too close to home.
Anyway, thanks Willis, for having a trans character who is believable, occasionally sympathetic, and not played for laughs.
We all agree that Mary is a horrible person and that her transphobic jab was horrible.
However, I fail to understand why everyone is totally letting Carla off the hook considering how much of an asshole she’s been so far. 😛
All shes done is jump around
What exactly is Carla doing wrong in the comic above? She doesn’t even have a speaking line in this comic. She isn’t even *moving* in this one.
Why should we be discussing the events from several comics back? What is there not to understand about people talking about what’s currently happening?
I think Dez is indeed referring to the disruptive skating behavior and refusal to stop when asked. Which doesn’t justify hate speech. It was however antagonism.
I get what she’s referring to. I was just pointing out that what she was referring to is no longer 1) happening or 2) relevant.
Or more than a bit silly to say you don’t understand why everyone is only talking about the most current comic.
Victim blaming is not softened by smilies.
Was Carla being an asshole earlier? Yes. But that doesn’t excuse what Mary is doing. I was pretty much neutral before, because they were both being pretty awful. But Carla being a pest doesn’t excuse Mary spewing a bunch of bigoted hate everywhere. Carla did technically “start it”, but right now that doesn’t really matter, because Mary took things WAY too far.
Because all she’s done is annoy someone for a few minutes when she was trying to study. Sure she’s an asshole, but it’s just not a big deal. If it were a big deal, Mary could move and Carla would likely move on. Yeah, it’s an asshole move. Ask me, I’ll tell you. Ask Carla, she’ll tell you. Sure, I don’t care on its own merits because it’s to Mary, and pretty much every queer person on the floor should hate her guts if they know anything about her, but its’ still a dick move. But let’s say it’s Sarah. I adore Sarah more than anyone else in the comic, I think (Maybe someone else wins, but Carla’s like, top 5 at best). She’d ironclad be in the right. But I’d lose respect for Sarah if she did more than trade quips with her. If it was really a problem for her, I’d expect her to move or otherwise deal (and I’d be surprised, in the negative, if a minor noise outside her dorm, was that much of a problem for her). Sure, Carla would be an asshole who’s in the wrong, but like, it’s a few minutes of skating at mid day. Deal with it. Not because I hate you or because it’s an important test of your fiber,b ut like, because it’s a minor problem and since I like the characters I want them to be able to take care of themselves, because on some level I want to see all the Dumbs succeed (They won’t. They wooooon’t. But I want to see them do so).
Since I didn’t get to say yesterday, I’ll say it here: I love that Ruth, with all her jackassery, swoops in like a flying mama bear out of hell and nowhere to lay down the law. Now I just hope she still lays down the law.
Why doesn’t anyone just talk to Mary? Like sit her down, and explain why her viewpoints are hurtful. Leslie could do it. Cause I don’t think you can get rid of years of someone being told one thing (that gays and transgendered people are bad) with brute force. All that does is make people like that view themselves as the hero, fighting against religious oppression or for freedom of speech, our whatever they decided to make up in their head.
Because Mary knows her viewpoints are hurtful. That’s why she says them.
This isn’t Joyce, floundering in ignorance. Mary said that to wound. She taunted Billie with the lesbian=sin thing back aways to hurt her.
Because right now this isn’t about trying to convince Mary that she’s wrong, it’s about not tolerating bigoted behavior.
If Mary didn’t know her expressed views were hurtful, she wouldn’t be using them in ways specifically intended to be hurtful.
Plot twist: Mary gets kicked out of the dorms, Becky gets to move into Mary’s old room *crosses fingers*
It will be a miracle if all of these links don’t mess up the post and that’s assuming that the length is allowed.
A not brief history of most-commented strips (minimum requirement: 500):
2 September 2011
621 comments (jumped right past that 500 mark)
Roz argues with her congresswoman sister.
13 October, 2011
657 comments
Ryan plans to rape Joyce.
14 October, 2011
637 comments
Sara saves the day, as Ryan tries to rape Joyce.
[Nothing from 2012]
1 February, 2013
613 comments
Ruth kisses Billie.
21 February, 2013
580 comments
Joyce incurs Dina’s wrath re: evolution.
7 August, 2013
1,042 comments
Joyce stands up for Dorothy. Her parents liken atheists to Nazis.
8 August, 2013
794 comments
Joyce’s parents get God involved and Joyce is saddened.
17 August, 2013
663 comments
Amber punches her horrible dad, Blaine.
20 August, 2013
572 comments
Ruth prepares to throw down with Blaine.
4 September, 2013
509 comments
Ethan’s mother encourages him to have sex with Joyce.
25 September, 2013
622 comments
Danny distances himself from weird-acting Amber.
7 October, 2013
684 comments
Joyce stands up to her parents for Dorothy.
8 October, 2013
716 comments
Joyce continues to stand up to her parents for Dorothy.
It will be a miracle if all of these links work, since I can’t edit.
12 October, 2013
770 comments
Ethan suggests ‘Joshua’ might be gay. ‘Joshua’ questions Ethan dating Joyce.
14 October, 2013
1,434 comments
JOCELYNE?!
15 October, 2013
539 comments
Danny waits for Amazi-Girl, like a Seymour.
20 October, 2013
688 comments
Sal yells at Walky about racism.
21 October, 2013
550 comments
Walky yells at Sal about racism.
15 December, 2013
621 comments
Amber yells at Joyce for dating Ethan.
18 December, 2013
607 comments
Amazi-girl flashbacks, and she comes face-to-face with her past.
29 December, 2013
Comments disabled
Billie follows up on Sal and Walky’s racism argument.
30 January, 2014
515 comments
Amazi-girl flashbacks, and she fights Blaine.
1 February, 2014
516 comments
Amazi-girl flashbacks, and she loses control.
12 February, 2014
508 comments
Ruth detects alcohol via kiss with Billie.
7 May, 2014
521 comments
Walky appears in the last place anyone expects.
14 May, 2014
525 comments
Amazi-girl confronts Sal & co.
21 August, 2014
1,164 comments
Danny thinks about kissing Ethan.
22 August, 2014
569 comments
Nothing results from Danny’s thoughts except unconvincing lies.
11 December, 2014
944 comments
Becky kisses Joyce.
12 December, 2014
595 comments
Becky confesses her love to Joyce.
13 December, 2014
799 comments
Joyce rejects Becky.
15 December, 2014
644 comments
Joyce finds Becky, who doesn’t have anywhere to go.
16 December, 2014
547 comments
Becky tells Joyce what happened.
17 December, 2014
708 comments
Becky reveals that her dad is terrible.
18 December, 2014
662 comments
Joyce rethinks her views and supports Becky.
19 December, 2014
627 comments
Becky accepts rejection and is offered a place to stay.
10 February, 2015
1,173 comments
Roz yells at Joyce for taking time to change her views.
11 February, 2015
578 comments
Leslie’s class abandons her due to the Roz/Joyce altercation.
12 February, 2015
846 comments
Leslie scolds Roz, who then leaves too.
13 February, 2015
542 comments
Joyce gets Ryan flashbacks among strangers.
19 February, 2015
645 comments
Becky has a new haircut.
20 February, 2015
824 comments
Becky meets people, insults Dorothy.
22 February, 2015
503 comments
‘Dorothy may have put some pieces together’ – alt text
7 March, 2015
631 comments
Becky continues Beckying and Dorothy-interacting.
30 April, 2015
641 comments
Danny reveals he can like guys. Dorothy reveals that bisexuality is a thing.
10 June, 2015
529 comments
A ‘friendship’ is sparked between Becky and Dina.
14 June, 2015
562 comments
Sal and Malaya fight.
15 June, 2015
558 comments
What Marcie wants to do with Malaya starts with ‘f’.
21 June, 2015
851 comments
Dina kisses Becky.
30 June, 2015
515 comments
Amber is angry at Danny for bringing alcohol to Joyce’s party.
4 August, 2015
558 comments
No! The Toe!
7 August, 2015
604 comments
Dina establishes that Becky’s dad, Ross, can not be trusted.
8 August, 2015
547 comments
Dina sends Ross away with trickery.
5 September, 2015
534 comments
Dina’s mother supports her dating Becky.
9 October, 2015
598 comments
Ross finds Becky (and Dina).
10 October, 2015
1,602 comments
Ross brought a gun.
12 October, 2015
721 comments
Dina performs the ‘Clever Girl’ maneuver.
13 October, 2015
507 comments
Dina is injured in battle.
15 October, 2015
874 comments
Ross begins capture of Becky via gun threat.
16 October, 2015
958 comments
They try to talk Ross down.
17 October, 2015
870 comments
Ross fires a warning shot.
18 October, 2015
686 comments
Becky gives up and goes with him.
19 October, 2015
600 comments
Joyce swears.
20 October, 2015
573 comments
Amazi-girl arrives, promises to help.
24 October, 2015
526 comments
Sal arrives, offers help.
27 October, 2015
575 comments
Ross spots Amazi-girl trailing his car.
29 October, 2015
978 comments
Amazi-girl is injured, Becky gets hit, Becky called in emergency.
30 October, 2015
622 comments
Amazi-girl’s pursuit continues despite injury.
31 October, 2015
674 comments
Amazi-girl’s dangerous rescue strategy begins.
1 November, 2015
503 comments
Dangerous rescue continues.
2 November, 2015
506 comments
A truck may kill everyone.
3 November, 2015
607 comments
Amazi-girl is sent flying (to Sal).
4 November, 2015
638 comments
Sal saves Amazi-girl (Joyce helps), Becky is safe
5 November, 2015
905 comments
Joyce punches Ross, hard.
6 November, 2015
581 comments
Joyce loses control briefly, then it’s over.
9 November, 2015
559 comments
Sal gives Amazi-girl advice.
16 November, 2015
660 comments
Ross is awful in hospital.
17 November, 2015
714 comments
Becky reacts accordingly.
24 November, 2015
811 comments
Via phone, Joyce’s mother is too sympathetic to Ross, but on Joyce’s side.
2 December, 2015
872 comments
Joyce explains her attachment to her beliefs.
11 December, 2015
679 comments
Amber briefly acts like her father.
14 December, 2015
511 comments
Carla skates annoyingly.
15 December, 2015
606 comments
Mary wrecks Carla’s skates.
1 January, 2016
559 comments
Beginning of gender studies class.
6 January, 2016
671 comments
Dorothy and Joyce divide chores in their (hypothetical) marriage.
19 January, 2016
874 comments
Mary vs Carla escalates.
20 January, 2016
Comments disabled.
Mary implies that Carla is male.
21 January, 2016
Today’s strip.
Damn. That’s some impressive work there. Kudos!
I take it you included the “Comments disabled” strips on the assumption they would’ve been among the most-commented had commenting been enabled. (Leaving aside what most of those comments would’ve been like… :p )
I’m surprised not a single strip from 2012 broke the 500-comment barrier. A quick spot check shows that year included:
— The sequence in which Joe castigates Danny for not taking Billie up on her ‘casual bang’ offer. I’d recalled that moment arousing a lot of discussion both on and off-site, for what it did or didn’t reveal about Joe’s character, and for the issue of consent. I guess most of the on-site discussion of that moment came much later.
— Mary’s character-establishing moment as the dark counterpart to Joyce-as-fundamentalist.
— The full story of how and why Sarah reported Dana. That was pretty major, as it caused many readers to rethink their “Other than defending Joyce that one night, Sarah’s a complete jerkass” assumption.
You know, however this situation turns out, whatever happens with Ruth and Billie, there is one thing Mary has not thought of.
The sheer apocalyptic hellfire that will rain down on her if Joyce ever finds out she threatened Becky’s living situation.
Thank-you for reminding me.
Becuase this is almost guaranteed to happen
nevermind joyce and becky, carla is friends with sal
sal and joyce test out their new partnership by dumping mary in a lake
Haha, it’s going down!
The author has gotten better at writing villains but I’m having a hard time deciding if that’s overflown to antagonists.
I mean – Ol’ Gash Face had clear motivations & was an evil person; which the characters have to face and overcome. The same with Mr. O’Malley, Toe Dad, and Mary…sure, throw in Faz. Whether they did or not is kind of up in the air and that vagueness lets this particular comic have the quality it does.
But antagonists…I’m told I have an askew view on antagonists (the generous way of saying it) in that to me, an antagonist has to as Khan put it in Star Trek 2, ‘task’ the protagonist. Look at say Devil May Cry 3 or Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. There is a clear villain and a clear antagonist. The villain in DMC3 was a dude wailing “I want to be a god, so you should allow me to kill anyone I want in order for me to get what I want which is basically the ability to hurt everyone and you shouldn’t harm me because that’s not what I want.”. The _antagonist_ was the main character’s twin brother that, since they are half-human & half-demon, chooses to embrace his infernal heritage as well as setting himself at odds with the protagonist to task the protagonist with engaging his humanity. In Snake Eater, the villain was the Russian rebel nuking his own country for political cover in order to buy time for the military take over that spent his newfound extra time practicing his sadism. The antagonist is the main character’s…more than mentor who on one hand taught him about being a soldier yet challenges everything that meant in every encounter.
And that’s what I mean by the author has improved writing villains (again, compare Mary to the Head Alien in It’s Walky or Sydney Yus in Shortpacked). But antagonists? Dorothy tasks Joyce…but neither is an antagonist to the other. Joyce (being a reflection of a ‘welcome to reality’ author) has never used faith and faith alone to defend against any of Dorothy’s points and has also never been correct or won by referring to the Bible. Now this may be a reflection of reality as people become less religious the more they understand about the real world, the less violence is allowed to destroy non-faithers and the fewer governmental mandates there are. But it’s not a narrative antagonist relationship. Neither is the reverse: Dorothy isn’t overcoming anything with Joyce except Joyce’ own oppression.
Now granted, this may be just the nature of a man vs. himself, slice of life & personal growth comic. But maybe I’m just more of a Sal vs. Amazi-girl kind of person.
Isn’t an antagonist just anything that opposes the protagonist?
“(again, compare Mary to the Head Alien in It’s Walky or Sydney Yus in Shortpacked)”
Those aren’t fair comparisons, because those are completely different characters from different universes. There isn’t really an equivelent to dropping dead parents onto someone’s head. And Sydney Yus was a parody of the whole “mortal enemy” idea anyway.
Darth Vadar is a great villain. So is Londo from Babylon 5. But I wouldn’t say that one was better than the other. They’re different.
How exactly are we not supposed to be on Mary’s side here? She was just trying to study. Carla was the one being a huge bongo. And how is implying a tomboy would better fit in the boys’ wing somehow a terrible offense? Did I miss something?
Also, to be fair, Ruth *is* a terrible R.A. for more than the reasons Mary listed. Threats of violence are not cool.
So yeah. Go Mary, Go. Fuck the haters.
Carla is transsexual, that’s what Mary is referring to
Carla is transgendered.
OK, honest question here — what’s the difference between “trans-gender” and “trans-sexual”?
“Reader’s Digest” version, please.
Unfortunately, that’s not a question that lends itself to a “reader’s digest” answer. The trans community’s terminology has been evolving, so you’re going to get a bunch of different answers from different people, some of them very upset, because “transsexual” is actively offensive to a lot of folks.
Transgender (not transgendered) is the generally preferred term, so stick with that if you aren’t yourself trans. Also, “trans woman” and “trans man” are two words.
Carla’s not a tomboy, she’s trans. Mary is mocking her for being a trans woman by calling her a man – and, incidentally, trans women are generally at greater risk for being assaulted, so taking her to the boy’s wing could very well put her in actual danger. Hopefully not, but we’ve already seen this school has some skeevy guys in it.
Carla is already established as being very sensitive to transphobic comments – she was very upset when someone drew a dong on her door, thinking it was an act of hate towards her.
And while Carla was being noisy, Mary took it too far by destroying Carla’s property – and the school’s flooring. Skates are expensive, and those were brand new ones, to boot. Mary could have gone to the RA at any time to complain about the noise, but instead she has been petty and hateful.
Carla is trans. This is why what Mary is saying is absolutely abhorrent.
I mean, much as we may sympathize with Carla (and clearly she is not entirely without fault here, but lawyerly discussions of culpability is perhaps beside the point: we like Carla, so we root for her), she isn’t really the main character of this confrontation: Ruth is. The Carla-Mary thing is really more of a narrative expediency to bring us up to the real dramatic confrontation, which is Mary confronting Ruth with the potential consequences of her forbidden romance. Note how Carla has receded into the background in recent strips.
notice how carla’s face is showing how hurt she is
If Mary was just trying to study, she had several means of recourse that didn’t involve vandalizing the hall, or trying to get Carla injured. (She could have went to the RA, and then the higher ups when Ruth would inevitably blow her off. She could have seemed out a quieter study area). And there was no reason for the transphobic comments she made yesterday, other than to be hateful.
I don’t know why y’all are so adamant on trying to exculpate Carla entirely. We like Carla because she’s a bit of a trickster, don’t we? We like her because she sticks it to stuck-up bongoes like Mary? We like herbecause she’s not a mild-mannered paragon of virtue? Why can’t we all just admit that she was being a bit annoying, and that we like it?
“bongoes”, by the way, is not my choice of words, but apparently what the comment script chooses to substitute for another word that starts with b-.
I wasn’t saying Carla is a perfect blameless angel. Carla is obnoxious as hell. What she was doing was super obnoxious. Mary was right to be angry about it.
Mary was wrong to try and trip her.
Mary was wrong to vandalize the hall with glue and ruin Carla’s skates.
Mary was wrong to attack Carla’s gender identity.
I’m honestly not getting the whole “But Carla deserves it for being obnoxious!” Carla is a jerk. But the things Mary has done to her are worse.
Right, right. Then we are in agreement, I suppose. Sorry for venting my general frustration at you.
No problem. It’s easy to see people’s opinions blend together when there’s tons of comments. I meant that last paragraph more for the OP, and everyone saying Mary was right, not you. Sorry for the confusion.
Don’t worry, you didn’t miss anything a 5-second read of the comments wouldn’t have taught you. 5/10, must troll harder.
She’s bigoted against trans individuals and pretty much everyone else LGBTQ. She’s trying to dehumanize Carla, Billie and Becky simply for being themselves. I could go into a long discussion about what lead up to this situation, but it’s irrelevant. Mary is a horrible bigot, and therefore she’s now in the wrong, no matter how we got here.
I honestly don’t understand how Ruth dating/sleeping with one of the students would be misconduct? During my undergraduate, one of my friends was an RA, and her boyfriend transferred to live on her hall. Nobody seemed to care, because it’s not like the RA is an adult faculty member – Ruth’s just another student with a few weeks of conflict resolution training.
The alcohol would definitely get her in trouble, but since she didn’t even know about Becky yet, so long as she pursued the matter, I doubt it would count that badly against her, either.
Nevermind, it looks like other colleges have very different policies than mine did. Might explain why my old school was such a mess!
Punch. Her. Now.
Jesus just unfollowed Mary.
his mom is so proud
So’s his DAD.
and lo, a choir of angels sung out, “it was well done.”
I bet Jesus from Shortpacked is on campus – he’s just a Spanish or central American man.
See, this is why kindness triumphs over an iron fist.
When you you’re kind, and you show weakness, other people whom you’ve helped show up to back you up.
When you wield an iron fist, and you show weakness, you have nothing, and it will be exploited.
Take your medicine, Ruth. Just take your medicine. March her down to the residence office right now, publish, and be damned.
Dammit mary why you gotta be such an ass
Mary tells it like it really is, finally.
Eh, not really. Sure, Ruth is a horrible RA. But Mary isn’t upset that she’s sleeping with one of her charges and bullies people and is letting an unauthorized person stay in the dorms. She’s upset that she’s in a *lesbian* relationship with a student, and is letting an unauthorized *lesbian* girl stay in the dorms, and is now trying to stop her from being a hateful bigot towards a transgendered person.
If Mary had reported Ruth a while ago for things that actually made her a horrible RA, that would be one thing. But that’s not what she’s doing. She’s threatening to ruin her life unless she walks away and lets her continue to spew vitrol at Carla.
Yes, she finally made it clear beyond a shadow of doubt that she’s a hateful, manipulative and self-righteous individual. Like Toedad, but smarter – and that’s not a compliment.
There are probably rocks out there with higher intelligence scores than Toedad.
In what universe is this “like it is”, she’s not “defiling” Billy, and Becky is not a “perverted vagrant”. All she did was take a few bits of information she happened to pick up and envelop it in bigotry. Of all the thing Ruth did wrong, and the bending of rules concerning Becky, all Mary cares about is the fact they’re not heterosexual. Just like I’m pretty sure most of her issues with Carla come from Carla not being Cis, not her actual skating.
Are there reasons to call out Ruth? Of course, are any of those the ones Mary brought up? Hardly, and even if they were, the way she phrased them completely invalidated her concerns.
TBH this reminds me of the Spring Valley student that was assaulted by a police officer. People were saying that she was rude, that she did not respect the police. And yeah maybe that was true, but SO WHAT? Throwing her and literally dragging her is an OVERREACTION for such an offence. Any right to be offended by her alleged disrespect was immediately evaporated by his actions.
Same with Mary: any sympathy she might have had over being annoyed by Carla was instantly evaporated when she started using hate speech. She went from “she might have point” to “she’s 1000% in the wrong”
It’s more like if the Spring Valley student thing was shown to everybody two seconds at a time, stopping for twenty-four hours after each two-second interval and allowing people to discuss it.
Police Officer: *tells girl to stop texting and come with him to the office*
A: Yeah, that girl is in the wrong.
ONE DAY LATER
Police Officer: *grabs girl and flips her over the desk*
A: What the hell?
B: See, all of you who defended the officer yesterday were siding with a racist. Also I’m going to heavily imply that you yourself are racist and don’t care about black people.
A: Uh, no, I was defending the officer yesterday because she was texting and he was telling her to stop.
B: DID YOU SERIOUSLY JUST SAY THAT SHE DESERVED TO BE FLIPPED OVER THE DESK BECAUSE SHE WAS TEXTING??????
A: No, I said she deserved to be taken out of class for texting. Flipping her over the desk was messed up and the officer should be fired.
B: NO. You can not side with the officer for an entire day and THEN say he went overboard. He’s racist and you sided with him, and now you’re victim blaming too. Also, did you REALLY just say that what the officer did was “messed up” instead of “completely horrible and deserves death”? Maaaaaaaybe you should rethink your phrasing.
Yeah, in real life there were a bunch of assholes siding with the officer after they saw him flip a little high-schooler over the desk. Those people are disgusting. But comparing them to people who took Mary’s side (or even just said that both of them were assholes and should be punished) UNTIL she went and started spouting bigoted nonsense is just ridiculous.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that commenters who were defending Mary BEFORE she showed her true ugly colours are retroactively transphobic, though?
Commenters that are defending Mary today and yesterday, AFTER she showed that she knows that Carla is trans that she will attack her for it; those commenters are on the wrong side of the argument.
The only person that is actually retroactively transphobic here is Mary: she has been escalating the situation so she can drop a bomb, she did not stumble into it by accident.
Sorry, I’m a scrub and a bit slow on the uptake. Totally missed that Carla was trans until I saw the comments today, which makes yesterday’s comic much much different. Was it hinted-at/established in other strips? If so, where?
There’s a hint in this strip.
In general, the tags are useful in searching for strips about particular characters. To see an array of all the strips about Carla (10 at a time), click on “carla” in the list of tags in the title box (today’s is titled “Leverage”).
three others last I checked. The comic where Carla goes ‘that is a hate crime’ for the dick on her door, the mentioning she gets a room to herself, and the fact that she mentions she’s tall for a reason, and sal responds ‘the [roller folk] wouldn’t care [about said reason].’
i wonder if sierra is taller than carla
This episode shows them standing side by side. Not certain because you can’t see their feet, but they look to be about the same height.
EXCELLENT thank you
It has only been title=””a single room” why exactly?”>hinted in canon, though previously confirmed in the author’s blog.
(If it wasn’t for Ruth and Carla’s reaction, I wouldn’t think yesterday’s strip counted as establishment either, considering that for whoever didn’t know it could have been/was read as just a “Carla is too rambunctious so she’ll fit in better with the boys” type of comment. Then again, I can’t read between lines, I only knew of Carla from the get-go due to having read Shortpacked! IDEK)
I FUCKED UP THE LINKS’ HOVERTEXT 🙁
and of course in the time it takes me to dig up the links I end up being ninja’d. Three hours late and still ninja’d. #lyf
Let me get this straight. There’s an RA that’s having a lesbian affair with another student. There’s a lesbian living “on the sly” in the dorm that recently survived a violent attack by her fundamentalist father. There’s a transgendered girl being bullied by a homophobe. Now, the homophobe thinks the university will be on her side. Anyone care to guess what parts of this will be classified as acceptable and who will be shuffled off campus before the ink on the expulsion papers has a chance do dry?
Well, Ruth and Becky will probably face some major problems, given that one is an alcoholic RA and the other isn’t a student.
Unless I’m misunderstanding IU’s policies on gender identity based harassment, what Mary did previously would count and she would be punished for it, though given the state of harassment cases concerning straight white people spewing bullshit, chances are she’d just be let off with a talking to.
I just wanted to offer some compliments.
1. This is a good comic. I hate it, but that’s it doing exactly what it was supposed to.
2. This is a pretty good comment section, with special kudos to Cerberus among others.
3. This was an awful comment section yesterday, so good job cleaning it up.
In case this type of callout is not allowed, I will put this in a separate message: There is a reason there is a comment a ways above, in which only an email and IP address is posted.
I saw that too. I that guy trying to dox the vault dude? Or am I missing something?
Yes, you missed all the fucked up posts that guy made, hence why his own post was turned into an email and IP address of his own, I would wager. At this point he is blocked forever, thank god.
Here’s a question…
In yesterday’s comic, when Mary first says she’s “taking Carla to the boy’s wing where she belongs”, Carla goes from happy to a sort of blank look on her face.
Any guesses what her emotional state was then? Shocked that her secret was revealed? (Although other characters knew and she didn’t react the same way.) Upset that things have gone too far? Anger?
BSOD shock; Cerberus and others with better knowledge than me have described it as a gut punch.
Probably all of the above. I know it isn’t quite the same, but when I’m feeling happy and comfortable enough to let people know that I’m asexual and then they turn around and call me selfish, or a freak of nature, or just confused, I feel awful. And that’s when I’ve actually TOLD people. If somebody who I don’t like but don’t know very well either came up to me and told me, “I found out you’re asexual and biromantic, you disgusting abnormality, and I’m going to use this information to torment you, and also I go to the same school as you AND live close to you, so there’s nothing you can do to get away from me (unless you move out)” I don’t know how I would feel.
i would describe when that stuff happens IRL as a sort of cold-fire that consumes me from the gut, radiating outward. it is a kind of fear that immobilizes, while simultaneously going into fight-or-flight mode. all other thoughts except survival cease. if i am lucky, i can get angry enough to shake out of the fear long enough to make myself safe. the days and months that follow (especially with the person who did that living right next door) would be filled with panic attacks, sleeplessness, generalized anxiety and withdrawal from social activity.
Complete shock and fear are pretty much the usual reaction. I’ve been outted before, and when it comes from left field like this it’s impossible to react any other way. Willis hit the nail on the head.
Can she be hit by a car? Can we call it Carma?
A talking car who throws pies at people?
If Mary gets hit by a pie, I hope it’s a brick-flavored pie.
Willis if Mary wins this one I will be very displeased.
You can have a story arc that doesn’t end in justice. Portraying someone unjust or morally wrong can be just as powerful a way to write a story.
But we already have plenty of stories where the trans woman doesn’t get justice in real life.
is it alright to hate mary now? I feel she is the crazy type of religious, you know the type that violently attacks people because they ate fish on the wrong day or what not…
As I see it, Mary is a bit like, say, Prowl. Hating them has ALWAYS been okay.
I’m surprised Carla was left speechless by that comment. I thought she was tougher than that.
Er, what? Seriously? You think that someone can just bounce back from something like this? It isn’t easy to just walk away from being told that you “shouldn’t exist”, or that you’re a “knockoff”.
It doesn’t matter how “tough” you are, being treated like that when you aren’t expecting it can shock you. I like to think I’m fairly level-headed, but I still get shocked when somebody treats me like shit because I’m asexual and I remember that, yeah, there are horrible people in the world. Before Mary pulled that transphobic shit, it seemed like they were just annoying each other for the sake of annoying each other. I’m sure Carla knew that Mary was a judgmental jerk, but she clearly didn’t expect THAT. Heck, I bet she didn’t even know Mary KNEW she was transgendered. That just went from Assholish Prank Wars to Telling Carla She Isn’t Really A Woman, And That She Doesn’t Belong In Her Home, And Also Now I’m Going To Blackmail The RA Into Letting Me Bully You Until You Do Leave.
“I like to think I’m fairly level-headed, but I still get shocked when somebody treats me like shit because I’m asexual”
I’m surprised to hear that asexuals are facing hostility. I thought they “only” faced persistent and omnipresent erasure, but I haven’t heard of hostility. I should read up on the subject.
most sexual orientations experience some sort of hostility. Many people don’t believe asexuality exists, and thinks there are ways to correct it.
you’d be surprised actually. Lots of people out there who assume you must have some sort of mental or physical illness if you’re ace.
It usually goes from
“Whatever, asexuality doesn’t exist. You’re probably just facing trauma. Have you been raped before?” to
“Okay, I accept that for some reason you don’t feel sexual attraction to people. (Freak). But I don’t believe that you can also be romantically attracted to people.”
Then, if they EVER accept that, yes, I CAN be sexually attracted to people, they start in with,
“Okay but you still shouldn’t date people if you aren’t sexually attracted to them. That’s just selfish. You’re selfish. You should have sex anyways and provide your husband with babies.”
And then there are the people who think that asexuality is a SIN because, like I mentioned before, you apparently HAVE to have sex with your partner or you’re not doing your “duty”. (Yeah, I’ve been told that by quite a few people. And they were mostly woman, which almost makes it worse). Or the people who (thank god I haven’t experienced this myself) think that corrective rape will fix an asexual person. Or the people who say that, yeah, sure I can fall in love with and date guys all I want. But I can’t even THINK about dating a girl, because it wouldn’t be fair to date a lesbian and expect her to not have sex, and I’m probably not even biromantic anyways, just confused.
Oops, meant to say if they ever accept that I can be ROMANTICALLY attracted to people.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/without-prejudice/201209/prejudice-against-group-x-asexuals
I applaud you being willing to learn otherwise, though. A lot of times instead of “I’m surprised to hear ace people face hostility, I should look into that more,” I’ve heard “No, ace people don’t face hostility, and shut up.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/20/asexual-discrimination_n_3380551.html
(cw: rape for that second link)
Would like to second this and say a willing ear on the subject is always appreciated when so often we just get a slammed door.
I am also joining in the applause of this attitude. Now, on one hand, it is a bit sad that it’s rare enough to be something worth applauding… But on the other hand, I don’t think it’s actually wrong to positively acknowledge decent behaviour.
And personally, I am less surprised*, and already knew a bit… But I always appreciate learning even more about it. Thanks for the links, and thanks to Wublub for a brief explanation.
*Not just because I’ve read about it before, but because at this point in life, it takes a fair bit to surprise me in regards to how shitty people can act towards anyone that’s not following the “normal” way of doing things.
Oh gosh you would not believe….
So in addition to being told I had no right to marry my spouse I also get the bonus of not being able to seek medical treatment unless I am actively dying. Every time (sans the nearly dying one) I’ve gone to a doctor for something or called a nurse-line they figure out my orientation and then promptly fixate on ‘fixing’ me, on how unfair it is to my spouse, and otherwise ignoring the issue I came in for.
And I’m (relatively speaking) pretty lucky. I didn’t figure out my orientation until I was out of the house (my father is pretty vocal about hating them queers, its part of why I’m estranged from my family) and it meant I was somewhat out of the danger zone.
What Wublub, Li, and Lorien Inksong said.
Also, ace people are frequently targeted for corrective rape, because clearly, our problem is that we’ve just not experienced sex or had the right sex yet so once douchelord fixes us with their gonads, we’ll be right as rain.
Hell, on that score, Carla, like me has the worst of all worlds when it comes to corrective rape. The three groups most targeted for corrective rape are lesbians, asexuals, and trans people.
Fun.
I really don’t get why someone would want to throw hateful comments around when Mary already says everything they think for them.
It’s like Mary gets progressively more evil every time the comments section gets progressively more toxic. Almost like the in-universe representation of the hate. That’s pretty meta, so hats off to Willis there whether it was intentional or not.
Well, unless this got set off again, I’d say it’s probably a coincidence.
Man, I want Mary to get a progressive awakening 🙁
But I mean IN HER DEFENSE (not in defense of her bigotry, but in her annoyance) as someone who also had a horrible time freshman year because of loud, purposefully obnoxious jerks I sympathize with her want to just study and be left alone. And let’s be real Ruth is also kind of a terrible RA. I like her being overly violent threatening and such as a character aspect but as an RA she really kinda does deserve to be fired–like, banging a student aside, she actively threatens people and her not paying attention to her hall ALLOWED Carla to bully Mary (and as bigoted as Mary is, Carla waaaaaas harassing her). Like, Carla was not subtle about it. I’m surprised it took Mary this long to snap.
Like Mary’s a bigoted jerk but I’m finding it hard to 100% feel bad for any of these characters because of Ruth’s neglectfulness and the fact that Carla is ALSO a jerk.
I spent a lot of time in the library studying when I was at college.
i really think that mary’s gone too far to have any kind of awakening to herself because that would mean admitting she was wrong
I don’t think theirs much potential for an awaking because unlike Joyce Mary is deliberately cruel. Look at her face throughout this event. She loves that she’s cause people pain. Note that she has never smiled when she wasn’t cause people pain or realizing she had the chance to cause people pain. She’s not just a fundamentalist, she’s not just a bigot, she’s a smug sadist who hides behind her bible.
so no awakening, but maybe she could get a redirect instead
im sure mike could help her out
Mary is probably the kind of person who would probably still be awful if she had supposedly progressive views.
I’m not sure why Mary thinks this is a free pass. She’s not wrong about Ruth being derelict in her job, but that doesn’t exonerate her own crime. All Carla has to do is go over Ruth’s head herself and it’s done.
Carla of all people isn’t going to be the one to go after an authority figure for justice.
she probably wouldnt, no, but she could and this is something both mary and ruth should be aware of.
i mean fuck, considering carla is still right there and heard the blackmail material, she could take it and use it herself if it wasnt probably against her morals to do that. which would of course make ruths decision a lot easier.
I know Ruth is a bad ass and all but she can’t actually touch anyone. She’s an RA not a police officer and if she dared touch anyone she can be brought up on assault charges and face expulsion. Not saying Mary’s right but the “Recess” style dynamic of these characters is off putting and at the worst completely unrealistic.
She’s hit Mary once already. And really, if Mary’s body goes missing, who is there to complain?
Slightly OT, but after seeing the number of comments here, I decided to check out two other strips that I know have a quadruple digit number of comments, “Thoughts,” AND “Outrage.” This has exceeded both of those. I’m too lazy to go through every single comic, but it’s quite possible that this comic has set a record.
This may have already been pointed out in the comments here, but I’m also too lazy to read through all the comments to see if it was.
Never mind, the Jocelyne reveal is the most commented on strip. This one is most likely second.
Jocelyne’s reveal is actually the second most commented strip. Toedad first pulling out his gun was the first.
This is now third, passing Outrage.
Okay, how did I miss that? I was just looking at that post with the list of most commented on posts. Sometimes, I’m dumb and oblivious. Anyway, this one gets the bronze, I suppose, at least for now.
Welp, this strip has now officially passed Jocelyne at 1,439 comments as of this writing…
Many won’t comment until after work today. This could easily reach number one.
Holy shit. Mary just went from one-note bigot to possibly the greatest villain this strip has ever had. She’s despicable and smart. She is basically institutional, life-ruining terror incarnate.
About a day late to the party, this comic & the previous one read pretty good back to back. Though I saw comment were closed for the other one. Was curious if it started off that way, or if it was done afterwards. Because one can imagine what kind of things were being said about Mary on that strip, and I think just picturing them could make paint peel.
It was closed when the strip went up. It didn’t stop the worst from bugging Willis via twitter or tumblr.
Yesterday’s comic had the comments closed form the start, because Willis wanted to avoid the hordes of troll posts that would inevitably follow. Some discussion went on in the comments thread for two days ago, but those comments were closed eventually also.
Can I introduce Mary to a baseball bat?
I think the best thing would be if everyone teamed up against her. Billie claims that Ruth is just helping her with depression and alcoholism, and everyone denies knowledge of Becci.What happens to Mary then?
1,238 comments to this point, which makes this the third-most-commented-on strip to date. And that’s after Willis emptied the recycle bin earlier today…. and there’s still almost ten hours to go for it to surpass the “JoyceleneJBrown.com” thread. Keep up the good work.
A quick question, though:
RAs are usually students who are more senior than their charges. So is Ruth actually a 3rd or 4th semester sophomore (similar to Sarah), or is she perhaps even in her third or fourth year? Her claim very early in the semester that “They love me downstairs; they know that I run a tight fucking ship up here … everything nice and quiet.” makes me think that she has been doing this before and has established a reputation with Residence Life or Housing or whatever name IU gives to the department in charge of on-campus student housing.
I think Ruth is in grad school but I can’t recall where/when I w pulled have read that.
She’s in grad school when we meet her in the Walkyverse. She’s definitely an undergrad here. I think somewhere Willis said she was a junior but I’m not sure.
The two year age gap:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/younger/
Generally speaking, it’s understood that no matter how pissed off you get, you do not. Go. There. If you have any fucking sense of integrity. (Or if you do, you regret it. –Oh, look, another Joyce parallel!)
Mary crossed the
moral event horizonline with that comment. Transphobia and transmisogyny are an issue at a systematic level- and it’s an issue that gets trans people killed.NOTHING Carla has done warranted such a low blow steeped in bigotry. And as some transgender readers have said already, it’s more than just a comment.
I wish more people could acknowledge this.
It’s like, okay sure Carla was kind of an annoying butthole but nobody deserves that. It’d be like if Amber and Danny had a fight and then she decided to get back at him by screaming about how he should just go cheat on her.
I know Amber/Danny means a lot to you…but that hypothetical situation and this aren’t really comparable. If for no other reason than the shittiness Carla was just subjected to is a few orders of magnitude worse than that would be.
My point was that if the two of them were fighting, whatever about, that wouldn’t excuse Amber from throwing the worst of bisexuality stereotypes at Danny to get back at him, much like how, for whatever disturbance Carla was causing Mary, that doesn’t entitle her to act like a transphobic ass.
Ohhh. I see. That didn’t come through, since Amber doesn’t know and it’s not exactly unique to lover’s quarrels involving one bi partner.
Not the worst bi stereotype. “You’ve just been pretending this whole time” is the one I would’ve picked. Goes to the core of your being and identity…but maybe that’s more a thing lobbed at bi women than dudes?
It’s a more prevalent stereotype for bi people. The idea that we’re unable to be faithful because we just have to bang absolutely everything. Straight people get that too when they argue, but it’s not an ingrained stereotype that causes harm to them.
And yes, the idea that we just pretend to have attraction for more than one gender, and that we’ve been lying to ourselves/everyone the whole time is also another common stereotype. In my experiences, I notice it usually manifests for bi dudes as us actually being gay and not wanting to “fully” come out, but for bi women, it’s that they’re all actually just straight and only express attraction for other women to impress men.
No, I get it. That’s a good point that I hadn’t honestly considered.
Probably because it has not been an issue for me and always struck me as the dumbest stereotype…whereas as a bi woman with a male partner, the accusation of ‘faking it’ and the sense of not quite really belonging in queer spaces…really resonated with Mary’s ‘where you actually belong’ comment.
*dumbest in this instance meaning “why the hell would anyone actually believe that?” Second only to “no, random OK Cupid dude, I will not have a threesome with you and your wife. Please relay that message to the last 50 guys who messaged the exact same question!”
Yeah, it is a distressingly common assumption, even from the gay community, that bi folks dating an opposite sex partner means they’re faking it, or invoking their “straight passing privilege”, to use a term that makes me want to vomit.
Personally, I think Mary is heading for a very large crash and burn.
Long overdue I think
Like 17 years overdue.
i think the thing that really put mary’s homophobia/transphobia into perspective for me is that the things she’s attacking right now aren’t, like, ruth’s alcoholism, which actively makes her miserable. she’s attacking the things that make them happy and aren’t hurting anyone: carla’s skates, carla’s dorm, billie, becky having a place to stay.
it’s like: how dare carla be happy. how dare becky have a place to stay where she can be a lesbian. how dare ruth have a relationship with another girl. how dare.
mary didn’t create this situation, but she is taking advantage of it so she can have power and control. she wants to live in a world where they don’t exist, and it’s their very existence that makes her angry. and happiness. i’m ninety percent sure mary doesn’t believe in happiness.
so like the thing about carla, becky – yes, they’re obnoxious in their possession of their happiness, but they’re obnoxious because they are willing to defend that happiness to the death. their happiness now is what makes their lives so incredibly precious after having gone through so much pain to get there.
…idk i’m in an eliza hamilton inspired “just to be alive is a miracle” mood right now and i mean. just. screw people like mary. grind them into the mud where they’ll spend their whole lives because they can’t conceive of anything better.
Hear, hear!
The sad thing for Mary is that this is really a weakness for her. The things she could focus on could actually be damaging (i believe buying alcohol for a minor is Ruth’s only actual crime), but the things being focused on only give Mary power if the others let her have that power.
Let’s face it, from Ruth’s perspective she could kick Becky out in a heartbeat or, more realistically, help relocate her/squirrel her away somewhere until the heat dies down. And her relationship with Billie is easily deniable, or better yet, brought out into the open with a calm, coordinated conversation with the Residential manager.
Hell, if Ruth isn’t two seconds away from shutting down, she could even completely turn this around and ask Mary why she didn’t report the ‘vagrant’ to her. The RA wouldn’t be expected to be a mind reader and know a friend of one of the residents was sleeping there (though she would be expected to take action as soon as she found out). Mary not reporting it would be held against her, though not in a major way (a stern telling off at best really), but alongside gender harassment this could go down badly for her.
well, I mean, the things Mary is trying to blackmail with have power because they could be damaging to Ruth and Carla if they were publicly known. Mary is hardly the only homophobic/transphobic person out there, and it’s like what happened to Sarah. a whisper campaign could do both of them a great deal of damage.
Mary could have consequences from the administration, but that wouldn’t stop what she’d done.
Um… of those things, the Alcoholism is really the only one that _isn’t_ hurting someone else. Allowing random vagrants to live in the dorm is a very real security risk (and probably THE most serious failure on Ruth’s part), sleeping with a student under her authority is civil sexual harassment at minimum, the skating in the hallway was disrupting people’s study time (and probably against policy because it damages the flooring, which means the residents are going to see a surcharge for maintenance on their rent).
Consciously or otherwise, she’s actually more or less got her priorities straight here. Letting a rando into an apartment house without a contract or any kind of vetting is actually the big one, not only does the school not know Becky from Adam, she’s from a family of gun-toting maniacs who’ve already damn near shot up the place once. There are all kinds of shelters for runaway teens and homeless people that don’t involve compromising the security of the housing of a bunch of other minors, and even if she didn’t take action it’s still pretty much THE most important part of Ruth’s job to notice and monitor the situation.
Jesus, now that you’ve made me think of it from an actual responsible adult perspective I think I’m actually rooting for Ruth to get fired, she’s almost actively a threat to the physical safety of the people it’s her one job to protect there.
You forgot the violence – I wouldn’t put it past Mary to have used a camera to snap a shot of the dick slapping’s aftermath. Ruth needs to be out of her position yesterday.
Not defending Mary – MtF here – but Ruth has got to fucking go. She’s a walking liability to the university.
“From the family of gun-toting maniacs who’ve already damn near shot up the place once.” By which you mean the victim of the gun-toting maniac (singular). Just fuck that.victim
Yes, that’s the clearest violation of policy, but it’s also the one with the most plausible deniability. Ruth didn’t know. Nor is she actually responsible for that kind of security, though she should obviously bring it to the attention of the proper authorities now that she’s been informed.
The skating is against policy, but literally just happened and Ruth has classes and can have a life and isn’t supposed to be a 24/7 hall monitor.
Sleeping with Billie is the big thing. And the booze if they find out about that. And frankly, I’m sure both of those go on on a regular basis at every college in the country – though probably less on the full-blown alcoholism and lesbian suicide pacts.
Ruth should go – but mostly should get help. Mary has all the wrong reasons and all the wrong motivations. And yours are pretty scary as well.
That’s what I get for commenting when tired. I should have caveated that with ‘from the university’s view’. She’s kind of problem that will cause heads to roll – allowing a alcoholic, verbally, physically abusive and threatening RA to have gone on so long is something that will be causing a great deal of hair pulling for uni higher ups – not least as she should have been caught earlier.
Yeah, not really arguing with that. But that’s not what Mary’s blackmailing her with. Nor is it what Timmy here was accusing her of.
This! What she hates and sadly, what a lot of Christian Fundamentalists like her hate is “unauthorized” happiness. And what unauthorized means to them is that people who haven’t earned happiness by being the right form of Christian and denying themselves things like sex or not being a complete dick should not be allowed to be happy.
So a gay person or a trans person or a non-Christian or so on having joy in their life and living their life unharassed actually feels like a legitimate attack to them. Like, how dare you spit in the face of God and flaunt your joy when you haven’t earned it like me.
And sadly, I can say from direct personal experience that individuals deciding trans people like me should not be allowed to be happy in public is why I regularly resort to a resting 90 yard stare in public at all times.
If I’m having fun, laughing, being a goof, it’s too often a call for complete fucks to come ruin it.
It’s part of what I said several comics ago about trans people not really being allowed to be happy.
***Mary-Fan-Club RULES****
As self appointed President of the Mary fan-club hers dem rulez
(1) The first Rule of the Mary fan Club:
STOP Talking about the Mary Fan Club!
seriously. That means stop telling people you hope to join, and stop defending Mary in public. Bunch of wannabees
(2) The Second rule of the Mary-Fan-Club:
You have to hate Mary
(3) If this is your first Day at the Mary-Fan-Club:
You have to draw a Ding-Dong of your hand, and slap her till Next-Thursday.
Is that a wooden or metal club?
We affirm both and all orientations.
If you are feeling classy we have Teak and burnished Cobalt.
We have Cork for the humorous inclined, and whiffle for Nostalgia sake
Its backed up In HolY Scripture:
“and verily did the righteous, enscribe the dingdongus upon thy right hand. And Ye shall not suffer to withold the Slappitude from Mary the unrepentant ” —The Book of Ding-Dongulus 4/04 10: 25: 2014
4
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/male-anatomy/
Ah, a fine Christian. Not concerned with whether SHE acts correctly, just with judging others, and using blackmail to get what she wants.
I’m choosing to read that with heavy sarcasm.
Well, the Bible was written in Rome after all.
How to spell bongo M-A-RY
I honestly think Mary has won this one. Short of either Ruth risking eating an expulsion or Carla going to authorities, she’s basically won the confrontation – even if Ruth beats her down, she’s got more ammo to toss at her – and the previous options don’t seem likely options for the victims.
This is going to get ugly.
Mary only wins this if Ruth is scared enough to not ask for evidence or if Mary actually has evidence.
Oh, she’s the type to get evidence. Wouldn’t put it past her to have visited one of those shops where you get stuff to spy on cheating spouses, for one thing.
If she did that, I think it would probably go even worse for Mary than it would for Ruth… something like that would be considered an invasion of privacy.
You forgot Option 3:
Go directly to Violence.
Mary is also checkmated. Dorm vandalism , Destruction of property, causing a disturbance, transphobia and homophobic slurs in the hallway.
Ruth can offer the first slap to Carla with a “I saw nothing”
HA! What if Sal walks by from the other direction? Lots of plot-room for escalations
While that would be true if Ruth was on top of her game, Mary has basically stolen a march on her and isn’t likely to giver her a chance to get back on her feet before striking again.
Well, there is a slim chance that the higher officials might overlook Ruth’s transgressions, as either baseless (if the rest of the floor helps hide the evidence), or relatively minor. This might especially be the case if Mary’s anti-gay/trans statements are revealed.
That’s assuming the rest of the floor does help hide the evidence or…someone that’s felt intimidated by Ruths aggression and threats (and shown to have followed through on threats) might actually back Mary up as they might not have all the information we have
Yeah, violence by Ruth is likely conceding victory to Mary – she could make hay with that and admin – particularly if she brought in the Media; I don’t think the uni would like that kind of exposure, having tolerated a violent RA for so long.
What gets me is that Ruth needs to go, her actions are bad but that its Mary that might bring her down is bad and that the information shes using is nothing compared to what Ruth has done
I mean her treatment of Billie was nothing less than bullying, physical harassment and then sexual harassment…like imagine if instead of Ruth it was Joe treating Billie that way
Ruth has some good points but is mostly a messed up unpleasant person so hopefully she’ll be removed from her position but that its Mary that might be the one to pull it off…
Damn you Mr Willis (in the best possible way)
What gets me is that Ruth needs to go, her actions are bad but that its Mary that might bring her down is bad and that the information shes using is nothing compared to what Ruth has done
I mean her treatment of Billie was nothing less than bullying, physical harassment and then sexual harassment…like imagine if instead of Ruth it was Joe treating Billie that way
Ruth has some good points but is mostly a messed up unpleasant person so hopefully she’ll be removed from her position but that its Mary that might be the one to pull it off…
Damn you Mr Willis. (in the best possible way)
Well, I did say that it was a slim chance that Ruth’s problems would be overlooked. the most likely scenario is that she either gives in to blackmail or they both go down. But its not outside the realm of possibility.
I know violence won’t solve this but that look of pure, bigoted contempt on Mary’s face last panel is just BEGGING for an uppercut and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want to see Ruth deliver that.
Ruth has to follow through with this. If she doesn’t, the real victim is Carla.
Ruth has a duty of care, and Mary has the burden of proof.
Hmm. Devious, is our Mary. Key to her apparent strategy is the emphasis on the word “language.” What did she actually say? (We know damn well what she meant, or think we do, but what did she actually say? — “I’m escorting you over to the boys’ wing, where you belong.”) All she has to do in this game of brinksmanship is to say, wide eyed, “Carla’s what? I didn’t know that! I was just (more polite word for slut-shaming)!” or “I was just saying her athletic rowdiness was more suited to the boy’s wing!” This will confuse the issue sufficiently to get the school officialdom, mindful of free-speech-suppression accusations from the surrounding not-so-liberal countryside, to back off in hopes everyone will shut up. Ruth is still likely screwed, though. Mary will regard the simmering hatred of her to be a badge of honor. Becky will be officially on her own. That’s my cynical view of how this would play out IRL, anyway.
Mary may try to claim “I didn’t know she was trans” card, and there may even be a chance it might work. But she also talked about “perverted vagrants”, the use of the word perverted could be seen as an anti-gay slur.
In fairness, perverted vagrant is kind of a fair cop in this specific case. Becky’s opening move was to sexually harass an old friend, then her followup was to hook up with someone she’d known for, what, a couple of hours?
Either way, it would probably be more interesting if Mary _didn’t_ know. A lot of people don’t think that much about the implications of their insults until they actually meet someone in a category they’re using as an insult. Good opportunity to find some character development there, even if it’s just a decision to keep pushing it because she hates a specific person instead of just being a general bigot. Villains need character too!
Okay it wasn’t cool for Becky to kiss Joyce out of the blue even given the circumstances but the speed of her getting together with Dina does not speak any kind of ill on her character.
Timmy ,
What you said is insulting to much of the readership, who are LGBT or allies.
I suspect you did this purely by accident and didnt consider the unfortunate implications. Im not crucifying you. Im not saying you are a bad person. Im not even calling you out , or anything.
I just want you to be aware how it looks. You probably shouldnt EVER quote Mary’s slurs and say they are “fair” unless you yourself are the subject of them.
Becky was made homeless for being LGBT ( like many readers reading this ) . So Mary is victim-blaming 2x. Mary is the oppressor, and in the group that supports Becky being Homeless. Marys comments also indirectly attack and marginalize much of the floor. Some of whom are Trans or Lesbians or Bi.
Im feel fatigue explaining the obvious here.
Becky didnt ‘sexually harass’ anyone. First Kisses happen all the time with straight people. Its normal human behavior.
You come across super-sheltered if you think a kiss is “hooking up” .
It looks extra homophobic of you, if are slut-shaming Becky for merely holding hands, while looking at Dinosaurs.
Maybe you are just in high school or a priest or something — but there is nothing abnormal about accepting being kissed by someone youve known for hours. Becky expressed interest. Dina Kissed her back. With Straight people, this is usually called “romance” and pop-songs are written about it.
I may not respond due to said fatigue.
Just be aware how your comments effect the living readers and other fans. Thats all. A lifetime of this, takes it toll.
Beyond all that, does anyone other than Joyce & Becky even know about the kiss? People might know she had a crush on Joyce, but I don’t have the faintest idea how Mary would know the details.
And the only way to think Becky & Dina are perverted is if all lesbian relationships are perverted. They’re about as chaste as a couple can be. Hand-holding and a few kisses. Shocking!
I would wager that’s a backup strat – likely mixed with using signs of violence against her by Ruth as another ground to attack her in the eyes of admin.
If this escalated to calling in the RM, then Ruth could claim that Mary was the whiteboard dingdong bandit, but had been let off with a warning after personally cleaning it up. Plenty of witnesses to that incident, but no public resolution. That would make the glue in the skates part of a larger pattern of transphobic vandalism, with Mary as not only a bigot, but an incorrigible scumbag who cannot be trusted with second chances, while reinforcing the administration’s existing view that Ruth has been doing an admirable job of keeping the situation under control.
That depends on Ruth being in functional enough of a state to use that. It depends on how well Mary keeps her off her feet whether that trump is played.
And, if other intimidated students come forward against her, it might put a less pleasant seeming air on her accusation.
I genuinely thought the worst thing I’d seen in this strip was Dina’s sadface. Then I saw Mary happy. Fuck.
Oh sweet salty spuds. I knew something was going down yesterday and now there’s this. Damn you Willis for now I want to see Mary lose her face.
You know, I tried finding redeemable qualities about Mary. I tried seeing her as a legitimate human being. But now? I just want to fuck her up with a chainsaw.
Carla’s opinion of herself. Or she could just be being glib. She’s kind of appealing in this episode.
Yesterday, I wanted to say “Snarky redheads with glasses UNITE!”
Today, I want to say that Ruth may be having her greatest moment ever in the first panel.
And that was the positive stuff.
As for the negative stuff… urrrghhh.
My heart goes out to all you people who have to deal with this shit daily, whether it’s openly hostile transphobes or careless comments.
Reasons Karla is skating inside. (Possible)
She skates everywhere.
It’s raining outside (Indiana in October.)
She’s excited about new skates and couldn’t wait.
How Mary realized Karla GAAB male.
She looked up Karla’s skirt when she jumped over her to avoid a tripping hazard.
I hadn’t considered that last possibility, if so Marys got some pretty good eyes to see that in the amount of time she had
and really good comprehension, unless Carla was free balling.
Not that I wouldn’t.
Possible, but there doesn’t really seem to be any indication of it. In that panel, there doesn’t seem to be any shock or surprise, just anger that she’d been thwarted in stopping her skating.
That was certainly true at first and Ruth took a lot of criticism, especially for the kiss. Since then, though their relationship certainly still has issues, it’s been a lot less one sided. Billie’s given as good as she’s got and could even be said to have to have taken charge.
Even Ruth’s abuse in the line of duty seems to have dropped off.
That was supposed to be a reply to chris73. Ooops.
That’s not really something that goes away because she’s decided to stop being a horrible asshole. Ruth still needs to own up to her abuse, let alone how she was able to do so from a position of power.
That maybe but at the start she was targeting an emotionally vulnerable teen so right there should mean she gets the boot from her position
Its also how a lot of stalkers act I’d imagine “once she gets to know me she’ll realise she really does want me” kind of thing
As I say imagine if instead of Ruth it had been Joe doing what Ruth done
I would completely agree. And do agree about the early stuff.
But the relationship from then hasn’t gone the way one with the stalker would go. Because Billie does like her. And we’ve seen enough of them to know that Ruth isn’t just using her or manipulating her. Ruth’s just as screwed up and emotionally vulnerable or even more so. As I said, not a healthy relationship, but not one-sided abuse either.
If Joe had done the first part, up to the kiss? Creepy as hell, just like Ruth was. If we’d then followed up with Joe nearly drinking himself to death and all the rest of the emotion stuff that Joe doesn’t bother with?
I’d like Joe a lot better than I do now.
Danny (rushing in, breathless): Carla! You won the Powerball! A hundred million dollars!
Carla: Cool. Now I can buy myself a new pair of skates.
Mary: Uh… Carla, old friend. Now that I think about it, I really like the sound of skates…
“perverted vagrants” is she threatening to out becky?
Of course she is.
Touché!!!!
I seem to be blind to the bad people of the world because i continually ask this qustion;
i dont *get* mary. Most of the other antagonists so far, they’ve been understandably bad people. But mary’s just –pardon my french– a selfish bongo. She cites the same kind of background as Joyce and Becky but she draws from this pool of malice that seems to have no grounds other than “I don’t like stuff, therefore i’m going to make everyone else miserable.”
WHY???
There’s any number of reasons – ranging from self-loathing closet case to just being a fuckstick.
I guess, ideal situation is Ruth steps down willingly, someone else becomes RA, Mary gets her ass handed to her for this hate speech, and minimal damage is done. But I’m sure that won’t be happening.
I want to comment on what’s happening in the comment section, but I don’t know what to say that hasn’t been said better. There wasn’t anything Carla did that justified this treatment, there is *nothing* you can do that *justifies* transphobia and hate speech, and Mary is an awful individual for going there. I don’t know why it’s under debate
1500 comments later and I’m still as flabbergasted as you are.
Over 1000 comments? I just want to be part of this, in a weird Bam-ish way.
Jesus, 1500 comments ?
Okay, ditching the Brainstorm “roleplay” to say this real quick.
Why does Mary seem happy about this? How could someone raise a child to act the way Mary does? It’s not right, no matter what some god-damned book says. Not to mention, a book that’s been misinterpreted in basically every form it’s branded as. It’s not morally right on any scale. I don’t understand why people like Mary come into being. I really don’t. I don’t understand and I hate it. I hate the bigotry, the biases, the phobias, the malicious glee they seem to get from dehumanizing others. Mary’s a person. She’s (in-universe, before any of you snarkasses try to fuck with me.) a living, breathing, thinking human. How does a sentient being with such capacity for reason become twisted into something this hateful? Hitler was a person too. He had thoughts, likes, dislikes, and probably had crushes as a kid just like most of you.
They were both humans, but they became figureheads for hate. Why does it have to be like that? It’s not fair. It’s stupid, and spiteful, and horrible. Nobody deserves to become what Mary, Escobar, Trump…Nobody deserves to become what they became. And I don’t understand why people turn out like that. I don’t get it. I actually want to hug Mary a bit, and explain to her why she doesn’t have to be like this. If not at this age, when she’s younger.
Nobody deserves to become an empty shell of hatred and enmity towards others. And I pity those that do. Because it’s not fair to them or anyone else.
It’s not fair and I hate it.
I take it a lot of your commentary was rhetorical, but if you really want to wrap your head around how someone could be this hateful, maybe try skimming The Sociopath Next Door.
For some people the only purpose in life is gaining power, and exerting it, over others.
Not : Mary has no qualm using the “damn” word.
Clearly you don’t know as much as you think you do, if you think Ruth won’t go for the mutually assured destruction.
Word of Willis is that DoA is independent of previous series.
If not for the comments section, I wouldn’t know about Carla’s history.
The comment section has eaten my life.
Damn you Willis.
(gonna play minecraft now)