Nothing a little saltwater and military grade cleaning detergent(they have this, apparently it can corrode metal) can’t fix! Scrub-Ex will take a few hours but I’m sure Joyce and Dorothy can make it work!
A modernised Harrier beats the F35 any day of the week. Would be waaay cheaper too. They developed a supersonic version but the US veto’d it bc it would have outdone and taken orders away from them.
And yeah I think the F35 deployed…but not sure if it can fire any weapons yet..
Yeah, the F-35 does a whole lot of different jobs at the peak of mediocrity and at a premium over a handful of more specialized craft that to each job to perfection.
I wrote that comment before today’s comic was actually online – attempting to be both relevant and first. And I still didn’t quite make it ahead of Jen. xD
I guess this is one advantage of living on the west coast of the US. For me it comes up little after 9 PM. I pretty much always manage to catch it early unless I’m doing other stuff.
hey, after the radioactive fallout from wwiii settles, that comic about a brave fighter pilot will be all that our survivors will have to boost their morale as they fight for victory against the giant monkey robot
And what would her cartoon series be like, I wonder? About her adventures as a fighter pilot maybe? Or about her life with her wife and their magical lesbian spawns? hehe 😛
It would be a modern adaptation of Roger Ramjet with a few changes.
Like if he was female, liked girls, had extra bricks instead of being a few short, was married, had his own kids instead of hanging with … wait, how did those kids get to fly fighter jets in the first place?
Mars is cool, but somehow its attainability made it less interesting to me as a kid. The discovery of signs of life tipped the scales to balanced, but I always wanted to check out Saturn’s rings.
Eh, well as long as she can pilot a fighter jet, who is gonna complain about her cooking? You’d have to have indestructable cahones to insult the Mac n cheese of someone that can bomb your house.
Shit, i just realized that the Barenaked Ladies are Canadian, too. Like, I think I knew, but I hadn’t put it together. Everyone is from Canada these days.
A lot of those things are cheese. Real cheese isn’t “less than 2%” cheese culture, but for all I know it’s like 4% so that something that’s half cheese and half water (so as to make, you know, a _sauce_) would be under that line.
My husky thought sauce was fine by itself. I once came home to a jar of pasta sauce licked clean on the kitchen floor. Nobody knew how he opened it or got his tongue to the bottom, and he wasn’t telling.
Its Walky is actually Joyce’s entry to the Write a Dexter and Monkey Master Story! Contest that comes out annually. Why she chooses to make Walky the hero, will never know
I mean no disrespect to stay at home parents, but this comic just hit me
with just how messed up it is that Joyce has never really imagined anything
else for herself beyond that.
Yeah, she seemed bummed about the idea, or about the fact that it didn’t equal being awesome, and it got into my heart. Especially when her first job-fantasy-choice was totally rad.
It’s standard for all Christian children to be trained in some form of combat so they are prepared for the next religious altercation in the area. If Mrs. Bamberger wants the half price Hamburger, you have to stand your ground because you had it first. (Bamberger being a Jewish name, and because you don’t have to be Jewish to want a better deal.)
LOL, but really, Christmas won. It starts Nov 1 now, though it packs up and goes home way too early (Dec 26 or so, literally “The Second Day of Christmas”). 🙂 (And, I’m still waiting for the Fox”News” “War on Christmas” crowd to trumpet the idea that Santa Claus is the worst thing that ever happened to “true Christmas”.)
fnaaaaaargh it was advent it was advent IT.WAS.ADVENT WHEN THOSE JERKS WERE MERRY-CHRISTMAS-EFF-YOU-ING OVERWORKED STORE CLERKS IT–WAS–STILL–FRICKING–ADVENT–
Huh. Guess I still had some anti-War-on-War-on-Christmas rantage up in there.
Yo Mr. Willis. Sorry if I seem like prying, but I remember you had some family in the millitary. Does that include your sister? (Assuming you have one)
Again, sorry if I seem nosy.
Let’s do it! You hug, I’ll start signing her up for flight school. Then we can switch halfway through the application. 🙂 And then when we’re finished signing her up, I can get back to figuring out a way into astronaut school. xD
Chris Hadfield detailed the process in “An Astronaut’s Guide to Life”. Of course, for him it was complicated by the fact that NASA uses American fighter pilots, and of course he’s Canadian…
(You guys should really read it; it’s a fascinating story and he’s very engaging. He saw the Moon landing on a neighbour’s TV as a kid when he was around nine or so, said to himself, “I want to do that!” and dedicated himself to aiming his life in that direction–and did it. He’s pretty awesome. Met him in 2014.)
I got excited for her and googled whether IU has an Air Force ROTC program (they do!), and now I really want her to join. Or take some art classes and learn to draw some awesome fighter jets.
I really hope fighter pilot is an actual job she thinks is cool, even if it’s not an ambition of hers to really pursue (although that or any other kind of pilot would be a really neat turn for Joyce)
Oh my gosh, this is adorable. Occasionally I get reminded why, despite some of the things that come out of her mouth, I really really like Joyce, and this is one of those times.
Now I want to see Joyce learn to fly a plane! After the shit she’s been through (and will go through when she starts to question her parents too much for their liking) I want her to get her wings dangit!
Darn it, there is a really, really appropriate song they play on CBC Halifax sometimes, about a songbird some day getting her eagle’s wings, written about a friend who was in a bad marriage, but I can’t remember enough of the lyrics to find it. 🙁 Ends up there’s a hymn about eagle’s wings as well (and a lot of songs about songbirds) and they’re muddying the waters.
So, here, have Conchita Wurst singing “Rise Like A Phoenix” instead, because it’s amazing, and also fits.
Turns out there actually were lightsaber-chucks. Accidentally hitting yourself in the crotch with one would be decidedly more painful than with a nunchuck I’d wager….
I came up with a way to make lightsaber chainsaw nunchucks practical. The key is to make the blades detachable shurikens. That way, you can use it as a ranged weapon by flinging the shurikens using the chainsaws’ momentum, after w hich you have a set of blunt weapons more useful for traditional nunchuck-wielding.
Huh. I actually really want to know more about this. Joyce is starting to thing outside of the life path her community has set her on, and is starting to think about what she wants. And it’s obviously something she’s never really given much thought to until now.
Maybe she really wants to be a fighter pilot who makes A+ macaroni, maybe she just said the first thing that came to mind. Maybe she really does decide to pursue the education degree, but because she genuinely wants to teach kids good things and not because “women are meant to be nurturers” or whatever arbitrary sexist bullshit her church taught her. Maybe she decides to do something entirely different from any of this. I wanna see how she explores adulthood and figures out the life path she wants to go down.
TL;DR I’m always ready for Joyce character development.
Well, yeah, because when I discovered it … there are GIANT packs of the stuff to be had for cheap at Sams/Costco and there were a couple of months … BUT I did get a hold of myself and went cold turkey.
That would be epic to see her during the graduation ceremony decked out in full military uniform.
My high-school graduating class had one of the first women to be admitted to the RMC and she made the top jocks look lame in comparison.
Is she saying she wants to enlist in the air force because that’s actually kind of cool. Though I didn’t really peg this version of Joyce as a fly girl, not that I’m saying that she isn’t cut for it just saying I couldn’t tell she had an interest in that.
Making mac and cheese involves following instructions on the box. That doesn’t sound difficult to me. Elevating mac and cheese to something amazing, however; that isn’t as easy.
Carrots and broccoli are fantastic in Ramen and make for a cheap, healthy staple, but I don’t care for broccoli in my macaroni. Leorale has the right idea; my standard spices for macaroni are dried kelp, sesame seeds, black pepper, garlic, parmesan cheese, and more black pepper.
Cheese sauce can be tricky to get right too. Even if using packaged powder instead of making it oneself, getting just the right combination of butter and milk for the end result to match the creaminess & zesty flavor of using yoghurt as the sauce’s base isn’t guaranteed. (Buying yoghurt isn’t really an option for me, since everyone likes it and it gets gobbled pretty much immediately.)
Red pepper flakes are really good with cheese, to my taste, and with broco, for heat. (Also I like the green, jalapeño Tabasco sauce I many things: that’s mild, but has great flavor.)
I like raw veg: carrots, celery, cuke, cauliflower, bell pepper (capssicum) … but not broco. But I love broco in certain dishes/sauces, eg broco beef. So when I get or make brocolli cheddar soup I load it with brocolli till its like broco stew, almost brocolli with cheese sause. And for mac & cheese it’s like the same but with thick sauce and mac.
I do that with lots of dishes, loading them up with extra veg, not just broco. Eg, chinese take out always has way more sauce than veg, so I veg it up when I get it home.
Throw out the cheese packet. Boil the mac. While it’s still hot, stir in your favorite (finely shredded) cheese. (Even if it’s American “cheese”; I won’t judge.) That’s a start.
A little soured milk is good to make it more a proper sauce than just melted cheese, too. Those who buy hard cheeses can just throw in the heels and leftovers of their cheese supply to make fantastic sauce before restocking.
Don’t throw out the cheese packet though. It’s good on popcorn.
Well Joyce, there are a few ways for you to get started. Flight school, switching majors towards aerospace, getting a heads up on weather classes (which flight licenses do require, I’ve had so many pilots tell me how much they struggled with meteorology classes) exercising regularly in prep for military standards, it’s entirely possible. It’s a lot of work, but manageable.
Yes, there is an art to it; you add two slices of cheese to the milk, pepper, and butter, then stir it all up on a very low flame until it’s all melted, then add the powder and mix it in, and finally add the macaroni, it’s perfection!
Cayenne is fine. I like to add a splash of habanero sauce, though, and I’m a wuss when it comes to spicy foods; the creaminess of the cheese sauce blunts the spice.
Eh, I feel like using any kind of real cheese, except maybe soft cheeses, would make it all stringy and take away some of the essential Kraft-ness of it.
I dunno, the creaminess adds savory and blunts the spice so it opens the tastebuds to more intense flavor instead of just searing them with a thousand painful lashes of hellfire, so one can afford to amp up the spice if the sauce is good.
My preferred hot sauce is pretty sweet too though, which probably contributes.
I find Joyce’s career choice rather interesting. It’s very childlike (think of the six-year-old who wants to be EVERY CAREER AT ONCE).
While I feel that the role of homemaker is one that Joyce is definitely much more comfortable with than Becky is, this shows how much it’s affected her. The reason her career choice sounds like something a little kid would say is because it is. That’s probably what she wanted to be when she was a little kid. It hasn’t changed because once she got older becoming a mother and homemaker was literally the only career path she even thought about.
I totally agree. I also think, as far as “thinking about careers” goes, Joyce is probably developmentally not quite where most college students are. That’s not something she ever expected to have a choice in, so it’s not something that she’s ever really considered.
Like, when I was in second grade I wanted to train guide dogs, and my cousin told me I should train bomb-sniffing dogs instead because there was no money in guide dogs. (I have no idea if this is true, I did not research it. This career plan didn’t last long.) That was my introduction to “find something you want to do that you could make money doing”. Joyce probably didn’t have that. She’s kind of still in the phase where every kid wants to be a ballerina or an astronaut.
That being said, if she does wind up becoming a fighter pilot or having her own cartoon show, that would rock.
About how much it was ingrained that there was to be proper “gender identities” so butch and femme were tightly regulated.
Between the two, she definitely wouldn’t have been allowed to even pretend to be a fighter pilot and definitely not to have an in-depth career like cartoonist. These are the trapped dreams of a child finally not being beaten when expressed. This is Joyce being allowed to grow up and start viewing herself as a person rather than a tool to complete someone else’s life.
And this is making me realize that as kids, Joyce and Jocelyne probably often looked longingly at each other’s toys while their parents beamed nearby making gender essentialist statements about how much fun they were having.
I wonder if that’s part of why they seemed to be kinda close -isn’t Jocelyne the second oldest? But if Jocelyne was the only “brother” who’d join in Joyce’s tea parties, and the only one who’d let her play with “his” toys without getting mad -their parents seem relatively laid back -would they really insist that their baby girl play by herself if her siblings were having fun without her because it would be unladylike to join them? Is that a thing parents do?
“would they really insist that their baby girl play by herself if her siblings were having fun without her because it would be unladylike to join them? Is that a thing parents do?”
Yet another reason to be oh so happy for Becky. You just know that she found ways to “liberate” a few items from the brothers’ toybox for her and Joyce.
Even if not, “laid-back” sexist parents who are enforcing gender roles have this really insidious thing they do where if you step outside the gender role they’ve assigned you, you get chided gently or in a “joking” manner so they can have the appearance of accepting it while making it very, very obvious it is 100% not okay to the kid. And also conveniently “forgetting” the kid’s actual interests when it comes to activities and toy buying. And if the kid manages to get toys they like or into activities they’re interested in anyway, those things will be subtly sabotaged.
Like my childhood. I spent most of my allowance on tomboyish stuff like pokemon cards, TMNT figurines, that sort of thing. Whenever I got to the store and wanted to get one (with my money, I remind you, because my folks would never buy me anything that wasn’t girly), my mother would wrinkle her nose and sneer, “You want that?! Look, over here, at this doll, it’s so pretty, are you sure you don’t want her instead?” And after I insisted on the TMNT thing or the car or the weather book or whatever it’d be a head shake and a laugh and a “Oh boy you’re going to be so embarrassed about this when you’re older, but okay, if that’s what you really want, we’ll get it. If you’re sure.” Except she wouldn’t drop it there, she’d make some excuse to have to walk through all the store for a good ten or fifteen minutes, the entire time of which she’d be passive-aggressively pressuring me to get a girly toy with my own allowance money (“It’s not very pretty,” and “I’m just worried you’ll grow out of it too quickly, I want you to get something you’ll still have fun with a year from now. It’s a bit of a little-kid thing, don’t you think?” and “It looks kind of stupid, like something a boy would play with. You don’t want to be like a stupid boy, do you?” and “I think it looks stupid.” that sort of thing. By the end of it, if I didn’t defend my choice without ever once getting angry or aggravated and God help me if I showed an “attitude,” only then could I get it (otherwise my toy-getting privileges would be revoked for my “sass”). Or she’d not-so-jokingly refer to me as a boy – I am not trans. Nothing wrong with being trans, but I am and have always thought of myself as a woman/girl, so being misgendered in a disapproving/joking way hurt. And then my sister picked it up and spread it around school and bad things happened on the bullying front but anyway talking about how parents enforce gender roles in sexist environments not how other kids do, although that’s a thing, too.
And usually a month or two after I got the toys, they’d mysteriously disappear from my bedroom (IOW, my mom would throw them away while I was at school) unless I hid them very well. And then my parents both would gaslight me about where it got to, “Well I guess you should keep your room a bit cleaner, if you keep losing things.” Even though I knew damn well that someone had taken it. And I’d get accused of being paranoid and “always” blaming things on my brothers.
And then my parents used the fact that I had mostly girl toys (which they forced on me) and played mostly with girly toys (which was all I had to play with most of the time) as an excuse to veto any boyish activity I wanted to do. And it’d be a soft veto, not “You can’t do it because you’re a girl,” but “I don’t think you’d like it, none of your toys are like that,” and “I don’t want you to feel out-of-place, it’ll be mostly boys there.” and “Don’t you think it’s more of a boy thing, sweetie?” and so on. And, again, the only way I could go for it was if I defended my interest against intense pressure to change it without getting upset, angry, or aggravated even after the “discussion” had gone on for two or three hours of them asking, over and over again, if I was sure I wanted to do a science-based after-school program instead of Brownies or something like it (this was before Girl Guides in my region started being accepting of girls with tomboyish interests, back when it was still all about prepping girls for their Mrs – in my region, that continued well into the 00s). Oh, you want to learn about science? Brownies has a gardening badge! That has science in it, wouldn’t it be fun?! No, I want to learn about science not about gardening. I think someone’s getting a bit cranky. No, I am not getting cranky, you won’t listen. All right, I’ve had enough of your attitude, maybe we just won’t put you in anything.
On the rare occasion I was able to defend a choice I was actually interested in, mysteriously a time conflict would come up and mysteriously they’d only have enough time for me OR my sister but not both to go to what we wanted and conveniently they’d rely on me as the older, “more mature” one to accept that I couldn’t do what I wanted to “this year” but “maybe next year” the schedules would be better (they never were), but just to make things easier on us could you just do [activity my sister wanted] instead? Or they’d say that my sister was worried about not knowing anyone and could I do them a favor by joining for her sake. And then they’d lie to her and say that I’d spontaneously decided that her activity looked more fun (despite the fact that I’d been making fun of it and rolling my eyes at it not even a full day before).
And then whenever they talk about my childhood, they’re always like, “But there are differences between girls and boys. We never forced you to pick, but you would usually choose dolls and stuffies, things you could nurture. Boys pick cars and trucks, things that do stuff. And for activities, you and your sister always wanted to take pet training and Brownies and girly stuff like that. That’s nature.” And the “we-didn’t-force-you-you-chose-it”/”If you’re sure.” gaslighting is to me what I think “I’d die for you” is to Willis: It’s something that will immediately and instinctively give me an adrenaline spike ten years after I quit living with them and immediately puts me in an on-guard mode.
Which probably sounds outrageously silly and petty.
But having all of who you are pressured out of you and gaslighted into oblivion really messes with your head. And my folks probably honestly believe that the choices and personality they rammed down my throat all my childhood really was my “free” and “honest” preference and that Adult Me has just drunk too much feminist Kool Aid to remember things right (something they’ve actually said in so many words to me, on several occasions – see also things like, “Oh, so you’re saying you didn’t want to go to [thing they sent me to] which cost [amount of money]? Weeeeelllll you could have just saved me a bunch of money if you were honest about it!” (when I was honest at the time and they pressured me into going) or things like “I sent you to [activity my much-girlier sister went to] because I was worried you’d be lonely at [activity I actually wanted to go to]. You always had such a hard time making friends.”
(and yeah, fancy that, when you’re not allowed to socialize with any kids who are interested in the things you’re interested in and you’re autistic so making friends without the socialization start point of common interest is really hard, and your sister who resents the fact that it seems you “copy” everything she does when in fact your parents are lying to you both about the situation does her level best to make you a pariah and she’s much better at social skills than you are so it works, you will have a hard time making friends. Go figure.)
But the take-away is to that sort of a culture, it’s not enough that you stick to your gender role, you have to want to stick to your gender role (or, at least, you have to perform wanting to stick to your gender role).
So, yeah, Joyce isn’t used to thinking about what she wants to do, because she’s never had the option to think about what she wants. She’s always had to think about what her parents want her to want. She’s never had an environment where she was genuinely encouraged to think for herself. Her parents probably preach from the nearest mountain that they encourage their kids to think for themselves and that their kids are “smart kids” so completely independently without any pressure at all they just happened to grow up with views that align 100% with their parents. But no. What it actually is, is that Joyce was socially pressured and brainwashed not to ever think for herself. So yeah, her response is like a child’s – because, like a child, she hasn’t developed the self-awareness and critical thinking skills necessary to give “What do you want to do?” serious thought. I was in exactly the same boat when I got to uni, and it took me all of my under grad, a graduate degree, and three years of work experience to gain the skills I needed to figure out what I want to do with myself. I won’t be surprised if it takes Joyce at least as long to really figure herself out.
(I’m not kidding in other threads when I say my childhood and Joyce’s have a lot of parallels. And my folks still think they’re Good Egalitarians* because unlike most of the adults in the community I grew up in, they never came out and told me I wasn’t allowed to do boy stuff. No, they just made it impossible for me to do boyish stuff and manipulated me until I felt like I had to pretend I didn’t like it even though I did and punished me if I got defensive or shirty at having my interests and personality mocked or at being pressured to do what they wanted me to do after they claimed it was a “free choice” or if I pointed out that it wasn’t really my choice because if I picked something they didn’t like they’d just pressure me to change it so why don’t they pick because I don’t feel like playing a guessing game today [that one got me grounded to my room with no contact to the outside world except going to school for three months because “obviously” someone at school was being a “bad influence” to make me have so much of an “attitude”].)
*I have a knee-jerk aversion to anyone who refers to themself as “egalitarian” because IME most people in the “I’m not feminist I’m egalitarian” camp are actually sexists who are trying to re-brand sexism as accepting that men and women are “just different” and if women have a pay gap it’s because of “choices” women make freely and blah blah blah libertarian boostraps BS and just-so stories about how sexism isn’t really sexism it’s just that women are inferior, sucks but it’s true.
that sounds like a harsh environment. gaslighting is one of the abusive childhood environments that is hardest to recover from. especially for anyone with a disability, society at large likes to tell you that your perception of things is what’s wrong. my environment growing up wasn’t nearly as bad, but i can sympathize with being autistic and liking boy things as a kid (although i didn’t identify as a girl, or a boy). thanks for sharing.
(the more i’m reading comments on this webcomic, the more i think this is some kind of support group for adults with abusive childhoods.)
Wow. I actually cannot thank you enough for this. First, because now I know that “gaslighting” is the proper term for what my mother did to me growing up (and continues to do today despite the fact that I’m a grown-ass man). And second, because a similar story from someone else helps me accept and appreciate my own childhood for what it was. As I’m sure you know, situations like this leave you with a feeling of being wronged or manipulated that doesn’t match the “facts” you’re being fed, and so you end up questioning every interpretation or feeling you have, unable to trust yourself about just about anything. This is made doubly difficult for me by the fact that my mother has always been very confident and assertive in her beliefs, so that if I was ever less than completely certain about something, I would just get steamrolled by her opinions. And of course it’s just my luck that now that I’m in a psychoanalysis and reaching a point where I can understand what was done to me, she has reached a point in her life where she’s very psychologically fragile and any mention of her doing a less than stellar job as a parent leads to waterworks and suicide threats…
But anyways, I definitely know what you’re talking about, less in terms of gender roles for me and more in terms of, “that TV show is so stupid, baby Mozart and brain-building games are going to be much more fun for such a smart, advanced kid as you, I promise.” Or, “I guess you can quit the swim team if you really want to… I’m just worried that colleges won’t think you’re well-rounded enough years down the road when you get to high school and start applying. And your friends on the team probably won’t want to spend time with you as much if you aren’t on the team with them. And I’m worried you might get fat!” (Note: this is, to my mother, one of the worst possible fates and a sign of grave moral failings). She was particularly good at the, “here is how you ought to feel about this and why, because that’s how good people think/feel” speeches, too. Which has led to me being completely incapable of making serious decisions for myself or knowing what the fuck I want to do with my life.
And the things going missing! Mein gott! “I have no idea where that went, all I did was tidy up your room a bit. You shouldn’t have such an untidy room if you don’t want stuff going missing.” Or my personal favorite, “what do you mean, 80% of your video games are missing and you found a few in an almost empty box at the garage sale? I never would have sold anything of yours without permission! That’s ridiculous! I only would have gotten rid of games you never played anymore, and even then I would have asked first. You probably just don’t remember, or you weren’t really listening when I asked. It’s not my fault if you said “ok” without really listening to me.”
The worst thing about all of this, though, is my difficulty in convincing myself that it’s actually a serious thing that merits the kind of mental anguish that it still causes me today. Trying to explain it to others who haven’t had similar experiences does not generally evoke much sympathy. “Why didn’t you just put your foot down and be really clear about what you wanted? What do you mean, you weren’t sure if you remembered things correctly or didn’t know for sure if you were right or wrong? If your memory of it was that dim, you probably didn’t remember correctly. Or maybe you or she was genuinely confused.” I can’t count the number of times I’ve had people say to me, “what do you mean you don’t know what you want to do?” Or, “what do you mean you don’t know what kind of job you want? Just follow your gut / find the color of your parachute / follow your passions / find something you enjoy and do it” etc.
How do you explain to someone that your entire mental landscape was built to be controlled and manipulated, that your entire life has been spent trying to figure out what a “good person” should do and make yourself into that, quashing and disowning any feelings that didn’t fit and forcing yourself to feel ways that did? How do you explain that it’s not as simple as, “you’re an adult now, get over it,” or, “just move on and live your life.” And how do you explain that the woman that loves little children, is so sweet and nice when you first meet her, that regularly breaks down crying and talking about how she wanted to keep you from ever feeling pain and how she would die for you, how do you explain that this person steamrolled your brain flat and then twisted it into a pretzel while you were young? These days, when I get frustrated or angry with her, she often winds up sobbing back at me, “everyone sees how cruel you are to me. You know that? Everyone I know tells me, ‘I’m sorry. I’m sorry he treats you that way, it’s him, not you. I don’t know why he’s so horrible.'” And I believe her! There aren’t many people that knew me as a child that she hasn’t driven away. Most of these new people don’t know the history, and even those that knew me as a kid didn’t know the whole story. But it’s another little bit of leverage that she can use to convince herself that she’s right and convince me that I’m wrong and am “not the child [she] raised.”
Ugh, sorry, that got really crazed-rant-y there at the end. I only meant to thank you and make a show of solidarity. So… yeah. Thanks.
Wow, just wow, I am sorry you had such a shitty childhood. After reading that, I am so glad we let our kids play with whatever they wanted and to try whatever the hell they were interested in.
That’s… that’s horrible. Thanks so much for sharing, ischemgeek and Unerringly Errant. I’m so glad at least you have come to a place where you can see your parent’s action for the gaslighting it was.
Parents have such a tremendous power over their children and… wow. yeah, I can really hear those words in the mouth of Ethan’s mom. “You may think you are gay now, but I just worry you will regret t in a year or two…”
All power, internet hugs and sympathy by light touch to you.
I don’t know anything about his writing style, but I’ve seen a lot of authors say that when your characters start doing unexpected things or talking back, it is a big sign that You Are Doing It Right.
I think this might be the first time that someone has ever told her that she can be anything she wants without strings or expectations.
And it’s so very telling that despite the stated degree in education, being a teacher didn’t make that overachieving list. She wants to be a fighter pilot, flying high, she wants to make cartoons that affect people as much as one has affected her, and yes, she does want to be a mother.
But she’s not a teacher. And it’s clearer than ever that the reason she is on this path is entirely in service to the expectation that she’ll be acquiring her Mrs. Degree and then retiring to unpaid servitude raising homeschooled children.
But hopefully, Dorothy here has placed the first spark for her to genuinely think about what she wants from life and what she would want to be if it wasn’t for these expected roles.
I genuinely think that those specific things were what she wanted to grow up to be as a little kid.
(And now you need the mental image of a tiny Joyce sitting in a box pretending to be fighter pilot.)
Accompanying that image is her parents, disapproving, but smiling because at least she’s having fun; Becky, her winglady; and Becky’s parents, who begrudgingly let this slide because her father is conflicted between telling her daughter her “role” in life and the pride he feels because it’s like she’s being patriotic towards the country and her family, she’s like one of God’s fighting angels.
In fact, I would think that the whole pretend scenario would be Joyce and Becky flying a jet and bombing the godless heathens of the country to hell.
Now I want to travel back in time to send Joyce a “Captain Scarlet” DVD because of the secondary “Angel” women fighter pilots. Might get past her parents while still being subversive.
A common phrase people use there is “yields the best results” 🙂 Also, I agree. Actually, since I’m often out of milk, I generally end up using a tiiiiny amount of water and a bunch of butter.
So the hundreds of posts saying their childhoods were exactly like Joyce’s for the entire duration of the comic didn’t get you to realise she’s a real character?
Now the overachieving difficult part of that goal is actually the coming home part. She would be super busy being in the military and writing/directing a cartoon.
Heh. This seemed kind of out-of-nowhere until I remembered jetpack!Joyce from It’s Walky. Still, it’s kind of mind boggling to think of ladylike Joyce (cos Joyce isn’t really girly as much as…really feminine? conforming to traditional feminine roles) wanting to be a fighter pilot. That’s awesome.
I love everything about this strip, and Dorothy being kind to Joyce, and Joyce getting to think about what she’d like to do, and Joyce being totally awesome in there, all along.
Over-boiling the macaroni. Burning the macaroni. Not draining the macaroni (yes, I actually did that once; that’s what happens when you’re over eager).
I was going to be a WSO, but my Fred Flintstone body proportions prevented it. It really helps to have your helmet below the canopy breaker on the ejection seat unless you don’t want to survive the punch-out. Also it would have been hard to get the canopy closed in the first place because my torso was so long. It turned out for the best, though. I would have been back-seating one of those Wild Weasels in Desert Storm had I gotten in.
Those guys have massive balls to do that job, even among fighter pilots, which is inherently a big-balls job to start with. Anyone who deliberately baits anti-air missile batteries is a god, as far as I am concerned.
It’s true, even though the stuff is easy to make (and is crap), it is possible to ruin Kraft Mac ‘n Cheese. I’ve done it before and I’ve taken a professional cooking course, for what good it’s done me.
I’ve also managed to burn a pot of water.
I don’t know about you, but I often have a hard time doing the boxed versions of things I know how to cook normally. I’ve been doing pancakes since I was 6, but I screwed up pancake mix enough times that I don’t feel confident in assuming I still remember how to make it.
You know, this is a day late, but it occurs to me that from what we’ve seen, Dorothy and Joyce are roleplaying a lesbian marriage, whereas Joe and Walky are doing a heterosexual one. I wonder if that’s representative of the class’s same-sex pairings at large, and if so, whether Leslie will comment on it.
Huh. You have an interesting point (I mean, add in “stereotypical” for ea) and I’m curious to see where this goes too. Leslie will almost certainly say *something* but I’m curious what/ how general
Ok, here’s hoping that Joyce is informed of some of the amazing things women pilots have done. I’m personally particularly fond of Night Bomber Regiment 588, better known as the Night Witches. Sure it may be bomber instead of fighter, but I think Joyce would really like to hear about these sorts of things.
Hardly surprising. Many women served in the Soviet counterattack on the Nazis during WWII, but received little recognition for their contribution after the war and with little to no mention of them in schools, post war generations quickly forgot them. And since western historians were only interested in documenting the atrocities the Red Army inflicted on the civilian population, the night witches never received the recognition they deserved here either.
More recently, she might want to google USAF Capt. (later Major) Kim Campbell, who not only flew and fought an A-10 through Desert Storm but landed one safely after it had been chewed up by Iraqi AA. Distinguished Flying Cross, and all that.
Bunnies aren’t just cute, like everyone supposes
They’ve got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses
And what’s with all those carrots?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?!
Joyce: “Um, OK, so I’m a fighter pilot.”
Walky: “I’m a fighter pilot too. I’m in charge of eating natchos.”
Joyce: “Then I’m charge of watching cartoons and the Kraft Macaroni and Cheese”
*15 minutes fun escapism that doesn’t address the issue*
Dorothy: “Um… OK, let’s have a comprehensive discussion of task division based on different relationship models.”
Joe: “…can I have the doofus back please?”
Today’s key learning: Asking Joyce to freely express her fantasies leads to random and hilarious eccentricity. I wonder what made her choose ‘fighter pilot’? I’m more and more sure that she and Becky, when younger, used to sneak down to the comic book store to binge on ‘forbidden’ secular culture.
Jeez… she is depressed, isn’t she? Look at her body language! Someone hug her already and don’t let go until she’s had a cry about this!
While the positive effects of ‘primal scream’ therapy were in doubt last time I had any reason to research it, it seems Joyce needs to be taken to a field in the middle of nowhere and just be allowed to rage at the universe to get all this crap out of her system.
I love that Leslie’s getting a productive lesson that’s relatively low on drama for once. Where the students are learning in (more or less) the way she planned. I’m genuinely happy for her.
Now I’m desperately hoping I haven’t jinxed anything.
Okay, but by “a fighter pilot who has her own cartoon show,” does she mean she’s both a fighter pilot and the showrunner for a cartoon, or does she mean she’s a fighter pilot and there’s a cartoon about her?
(I don’t know if anyones said this, but:)
One of them wants to be an aircraft pilot, the other–a government official.
It’s not quite (as in at all) perfect… but I might be able to say that they totally want to be Shortpacked! Leslie (Aircraft pilot) and Robin (Government official).
I just realized that Dorothy has a barely visible line above her mouth that I assume is meant to be her upper lip. And I can’t stop seeing it as a mustache.
Well, at least she’s interested now. I don’t think it’s the sort if answer Leslie is interested in, since she probably wants to see how the couples deal with making compromises and Joyce’s schedule would require more than 24 hours a day, but taking an active part in the exercise beats leaving it all for the other to decide.
I wonder if by “my own cartoon show” she means being a cartoonist or being the star of the show as a character based on her (Dorothy did say ANYTHING). I don’t recall her demonstrating an interest in drawing other than her stint as the dingdong bandit.
By the way, my mobile connection spritzed a little just now so please try to ignore it if there are three instances of this comment or something like that.
I agree. There is definitely an art to Mac & Cheese. I drop eggs into the boiling water when I add the noodles, as well as jalapenos. Then I add an extra handful of real cheese (usually fiesta blend, unless I have spicy cheddar slices) when I add the powder. It’s so, so good.
Two simple ways to enhance blue-box Mac & Cheese: 1) Mix the sauce without the noodles in it, on the stove over heat (if you’re using the traditional method of cooking) and then add the noodles back after the sauce is properly mixed – this makes the sauce less gritty; 2) add two slices of American Cheese to the Mac & Cheese after mixing the noodles and sauce, and let them melt – this makes the sauce creamier, and more like cheese.
Also, interestingly enough, there’s a company that puts out a microwave Ramen/Mac&Cheese plastic cooking vessel (the Mac&Cheese one is just bigger than the Ramen one). They actually work pretty decently for quick Ramen/Mac&Cheese. They’re cheap and I recommend them.
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“yup, I totes come home EVERY NIGHT like a BOSS”
She totes knows how to make babbies. Like a BOSSETTE.
She doesn’t need a hangar to keep her plane in, she just parks it in the garage. That’s how BOSS she is.
It could be a harrier. Harier? The vertical takeoff planes that are fucking awesome.
Harrier. And yes, they are.
True, but the landings are going to be hell on the driveway.
Nothing a little saltwater and military grade cleaning detergent(they have this, apparently it can corrode metal) can’t fix! Scrub-Ex will take a few hours but I’m sure Joyce and Dorothy can make it work!
Oh, please the Harrier is old and busted. F-35B is the new hotness (assuming Lockeed ever finishes the damn thing).
The F-35B is damn sexy. And I believe they’ve been deployed already.
A modernised Harrier beats the F35 any day of the week. Would be waaay cheaper too. They developed a supersonic version but the US veto’d it bc it would have outdone and taken orders away from them.
And yeah I think the F35 deployed…but not sure if it can fire any weapons yet..
Yeah, the F-35 does a whole lot of different jobs at the peak of mediocrity and at a premium over a handful of more specialized craft that to each job to perfection.
How did the US veto a plane that wasn’t being sold to the US Department of Defense? Can the DoD control foreign corporations now??
And it is incredibly hard to fly in vertical mode, there have been many, many crashes due by that.
I instinctively mashed the E key when I saw your gravitar.
Anyone else get the song from Top Gun in their head after reading this?
O, hey there! I’ve never seen the comic actually go up at the minute before… 😛
Joyce is so cute when she’s re-assessing her belief structures. xD
So many feels from this one. Cute is definitely the right word.
I wrote that comment before today’s comic was actually online – attempting to be both relevant and first. And I still didn’t quite make it ahead of Jen. xD
To get first on DoA, one mustn’t specifically want it.
…Perhaps I’m a little superstitious.
Came up at 12:05 for me on Est.
Came up for me at 05:03 GMT. I thought I’d try it for once, given I was having a case of insome anyways. 😉
I guess this is one advantage of living on the west coast of the US. For me it comes up little after 9 PM. I pretty much always manage to catch it early unless I’m doing other stuff.
So cute her eyebrows vanish ^^
Huh, you think you know someone…
I hope there’s a sequel to Dumbing of Age where Joyce is a Fighter Pilot in some war
Idiocy in Infantry: Walky and Joyce Go to War
hey, after the radioactive fallout from wwiii settles, that comic about a brave fighter pilot will be all that our survivors will have to boost their morale as they fight for victory against the giant monkey robot
I read that as “after wii” lol.
The Console Wars of the Nineties were terrible…
And what would her cartoon series be like, I wonder? About her adventures as a fighter pilot maybe? Or about her life with her wife and their magical lesbian spawns? hehe 😛
No worries. Joe has magical lesbian spawn covered.
For some reason I kept reading that as “magical lesbian prawns”, and was very confused (interested, but confused).
“Magical Lesbian Prawns” is the Anime spin-off of “Joyce and the Monkey Fighters”.
Not to be confused with the cartoon network edited version “Magical good friends Prawns” 🙂
Magical Cousin Prawns, you mean.
It would be a modern adaptation of Roger Ramjet with a few changes.
Like if he was female, liked girls, had extra bricks instead of being a few short, was married, had his own kids instead of hanging with … wait, how did those kids get to fly fighter jets in the first place?
Mecha pilot, I hope. It can have a fighter jet form.
And involuntary recruitment, as is traditional.
So… Macross?
Well, you could try reading the AU prequel, It’s Walky! 😉
Fighter jet, jet pack, close enough.
Joyce just wants to fly.
I think quite a lot of people want to fly, just because it’s not a natural part of human physiology or something like that.
Me, I always wanted to be an astronaut and go to Mars. xD
Still flying.
Mars is cool, but somehow its attainability made it less interesting to me as a kid. The discovery of signs of life tipped the scales to balanced, but I always wanted to check out Saturn’s rings.
Yes and no. It ranges from -133 at the poles at night to a toasty 27 on the day-side in summer.
Don’t take Bear Grylls to mars
Don’t go with Matt Damon.
I go flying so high, when I’m stoned.
[Hands you $20]
“Graham, keep the change.”
So their marriage is…
Doroxter and the Macaroni Master?
That’s President Doroxter to you.
And it turns out that Joyce is actually a genius pilot.
Her mac and cheese is shit, though.
Eh, well as long as she can pilot a fighter jet, who is gonna complain about her cooking? You’d have to have indestructable cahones to insult the Mac n cheese of someone that can bomb your house.
oh said Cojones would be pretty destructible one the bomb drop XD
Yeah, bit more worried about my brain, heart, and other life-sustaining organs in the face of bombings.
How very odd. A fighter pilot making mac & cheese, most of them just eat it.
Ironically enough, my dad was a fighter pilot, and about the only thing he could cook was Kraft Dinner. We ate out a lot when mom was away.
I’m actually surprised that Kraft Dinner has been mentioned in the strip so rarely that this can be the first time KD was used as a title.
I was surprised to see the title, since Kraft only uses the Kraft Dinner name in Canada.
Kraft Canada pissed me off a few years ago when they dropped the Egg Noodles from the Kraft Dinner line.
Shit, i just realized that the Barenaked Ladies are Canadian, too. Like, I think I knew, but I hadn’t put it together. Everyone is from Canada these days.
It’s a magical place.
Yea, and our heads disarticulate from our jaws when we talk.
Always were when it comes to the entertainment industry but you guys do help make them what they are today. The good, the bad and the Bieber.
Why’d you type the bad twice?
One is even worse than bad.
All this talk about Kraft Mac and Cheese is sad.
I mean, it’s good, but not as good as their Velveeta Shells and Cheese.
Cause…you know…Velveeta is awesome like that.
The “Sharp Cheddar” Velveeta is.
Milk, whey, skim milk, milk protein concentrate, water, milkfat, whey protein concentrate, sodium phosphate, modified food starch; contains less than 2% of: salt, calcium phosphate, , dried corn syrup, canola oil, malto dextrin, lactic acid, sorbic acid as a preservative, sodium alginate, sodium citrate, cheese culture, enzymes, apocarotenal (color), annatto (color) ….. Yeah, “cheese”
Yea, it is many things, but cheese it is not.
A lot of those things are cheese. Real cheese isn’t “less than 2%” cheese culture, but for all I know it’s like 4% so that something that’s half cheese and half water (so as to make, you know, a _sauce_) would be under that line.
Right, it’s “processed cheese food”, isn’t it?
Thank you, I had no idea what “KD” meant.
And here I thought it stood for “Kings Dominion” (not really).
Joyce must be an ace fighter pilot.
Her Mac & Cheese, on the other hand, is just that: Macaroni on one side, cheese sauce on the other. Mix to your desired consistency.
As long as she downs Toedads, we can overlook her cooking skills.
Well, yeah, you can’t have different foods touch.
sauce doesn’t count as a food in and of itself, it’s just a condiment, so it gets a pass.
Cheese sauce is a derivative of cheese, so it’s separate.
Tell that to five year old me…
My husky thought sauce was fine by itself. I once came home to a jar of pasta sauce licked clean on the kitchen floor. Nobody knew how he opened it or got his tongue to the bottom, and he wasn’t telling.
No, given her dreams about and reaction to Ethan, I’m pretty sure she’d be a heterosexual fighter pilot. 😛
Why not a bisexual fighter pilot?
(Like I and many others want a Mr Dameron to be :p)
One who can do both drogue and probe refueling?
I know Finn/Rey was pretty canon, but Poe was totes flirting with Finn the entire time.
Coming this fall to ABC:
Joyce Brown Karate Kommandos!
“Sorry guys, this is an emergency! I’m Joyce Brown.”
And Walky can be the ruthless Super Ninja!
Wow, I never knew Joyce had her own cartoon show. 😛
I choose to believe that SEMME in this universe started out as characters in Dexter and Monkey Master before getting their own spinoff.
Dexter and Monkey Master: Agents of SEMME
Given that they don’t have counterparts in this verse, I headcanon the Future Kids from J&W! being the SEMME agents in Dexter & Monkey Master.
That or Joyce will end up writing cartoon about her flying around in a jetpack fighting aliens….
Its Walky is actually Joyce’s entry to the Write a Dexter and Monkey Master Story! Contest that comes out annually. Why she chooses to make Walky the hero, will never know
And then she becomes an internet pornlord? I mean, Willis *has* said that she’s basically his past… 😛
Y’know, she didn’t say what this cartoon show was going to be about…. :p
Welp if you’re gonna dream, might as well dream big.
I mean no disrespect to stay at home parents, but this comic just hit me
with just how messed up it is that Joyce has never really imagined anything
else for herself beyond that.
Becky had a very similar comment before job applications
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/aspirations/
Yeah, she seemed bummed about the idea, or about the fact that it didn’t equal being awesome, and it got into my heart. Especially when her first job-fantasy-choice was totally rad.
I didn’t know Joyce had fighter pilot experience.
It’s standard for all Christian children to be trained in some form of combat so they are prepared for the next religious altercation in the area. If Mrs. Bamberger wants the half price Hamburger, you have to stand your ground because you had it first. (Bamberger being a Jewish name, and because you don’t have to be Jewish to want a better deal.)
You need all the weapons at your disposal when it comes time to fight Mecha Anti-christ and his laser eyes.
Surprised that the obvious reply hasn’t been made yet:
Of course she has. After all, she has to be ready for the WAR ON CHRISTMAS!
…On second thought, maybe it’s just as well nobody said this.
LOL, but really, Christmas won. It starts Nov 1 now, though it packs up and goes home way too early (Dec 26 or so, literally “The Second Day of Christmas”). 🙂 (And, I’m still waiting for the Fox”News” “War on Christmas” crowd to trumpet the idea that Santa Claus is the worst thing that ever happened to “true Christmas”.)
Maybe not the worst but that red frocked obese huckster is up there.
Saint Nicholas aka Nikolaos of Myra would so kick his pudgy butt.
fnaaaaaargh it was advent it was advent IT.WAS.ADVENT WHEN THOSE JERKS WERE MERRY-CHRISTMAS-EFF-YOU-ING OVERWORKED STORE CLERKS IT–WAS–STILL–FRICKING–ADVENT–
Huh. Guess I still had some anti-War-on-War-on-Christmas rantage up in there.
Aw, Joyce. This is the first time she’s even thought about it, huh?
And I kinda want her to drop out next book and enlist in the air force…. is that wrong?
Considering she’d be going after her very own newfound ambition instead of going to her parents’ school for her MRS, it’s not wrong.
She saw Top Gun recently.
That’s what made me want to join the military to fly planes.
My 20/500 left eye kinda shot that idea out of the sky.
Fess up, you just wanted to play beach volleyball with nearly naked hunks.
Still can’t get enough adrenaline, I suppose. That’s fantastic.
adrenaline junkie huh? now it all makes sense.
Yo Mr. Willis. Sorry if I seem like prying, but I remember you had some family in the millitary. Does that include your sister? (Assuming you have one)
Again, sorry if I seem nosy.
Good lord, I want to hug Joyce and sign her up for flight school. Possibly simultaneously.
Let’s do it! You hug, I’ll start signing her up for flight school. Then we can switch halfway through the application. 🙂 And then when we’re finished signing her up, I can get back to figuring out a way into astronaut school. xD
I’m pretty sure NASA is taking applications… Go apply!
It was even up on Twitter.
Chris Hadfield detailed the process in “An Astronaut’s Guide to Life”. Of course, for him it was complicated by the fact that NASA uses American fighter pilots, and of course he’s Canadian…
(You guys should really read it; it’s a fascinating story and he’s very engaging. He saw the Moon landing on a neighbour’s TV as a kid when he was around nine or so, said to himself, “I want to do that!” and dedicated himself to aiming his life in that direction–and did it. He’s pretty awesome. Met him in 2014.)
I got excited for her and googled whether IU has an Air Force ROTC program (they do!), and now I really want her to join. Or take some art classes and learn to draw some awesome fighter jets.
She wants to fly jets but I’m not sure she would have the kind of mentality necessary to employ them in combat.
What she needs is a nice flight club, but I fear those don’t exist any more.
The first rule of flight club …
A flight club may not harm a human or, though inaction, allow a human to come to harm.
Hm. Ross was bad, but I don’t think he’d quite forfeited his ‘human’ status.
Air Force it is.
I look forward to Parentopocalypse 3: ToeBlaine’s Revenge where Joyce provides air support to Sal and Amazi-Girl.
I’ve been looking forward to this, seeing what Joyce actually wants to do with her life.
…wait, fighter pilot…that’s an It’s Walky reference, isn’t it!
These kids of theirs… adopted? Artificial insemination? Would Joyce carry them all? Or would they take turns?
It involved some mad science and a Super Soaker, but they made it work.
I really hope fighter pilot is an actual job she thinks is cool, even if it’s not an ambition of hers to really pursue (although that or any other kind of pilot would be a really neat turn for Joyce)
I was going to say “then Joyce can be a mecha pilot instead!” But then I remembered Dorothy’s the one going for presidency of the United States.
A radical President Dorothy will be. Air support is always nice though.
now I’m picturing the army under Dorothy’s presidency being like Exo Squad, and all the pilots are from Shortpacked/DoA universes
Oh my gosh, this is adorable. Occasionally I get reminded why, despite some of the things that come out of her mouth, I really really like Joyce, and this is one of those times.
If only all the adorableness wasn’t overshadowed by how depressing this is. 🙁
Now I want to see Joyce learn to fly a plane! After the shit she’s been through (and will go through when she starts to question her parents too much for their liking) I want her to get her wings dangit!
Darn it, there is a really, really appropriate song they play on CBC Halifax sometimes, about a songbird some day getting her eagle’s wings, written about a friend who was in a bad marriage, but I can’t remember enough of the lyrics to find it. 🙁 Ends up there’s a hymn about eagle’s wings as well (and a lot of songs about songbirds) and they’re muddying the waters.
So, here, have Conchita Wurst singing “Rise Like A Phoenix” instead, because it’s amazing, and also fits.
::picturing Joyce riding around on Fighter, making him wield sword-chucks with great finesse::
He’s spinning them as propellers!
They’re not any old sword-chucks. They’re [i]lightsaber[/i]-chucks.
Quadruple lightsaber chucks. That’s a grand total of eight sabers. 16 if they’re Maul style.
Turns out there actually were lightsaber-chucks. Accidentally hitting yourself in the crotch with one would be decidedly more painful than with a nunchuck I’d wager….
I came up with a way to make lightsaber chainsaw nunchucks practical. The key is to make the blades detachable shurikens. That way, you can use it as a ranged weapon by flinging the shurikens using the chainsaws’ momentum, after w hich you have a set of blunt weapons more useful for traditional nunchuck-wielding.
Just wondering if you read Dr. McNinja..? *Grin*
There are chainsaw Nunchukas there as well.
I’m not sure ‘practical’ is the word you want there, but that sounds like a glorious weapon that’d fit right into RWBY.
Huh. I actually really want to know more about this. Joyce is starting to thing outside of the life path her community has set her on, and is starting to think about what she wants. And it’s obviously something she’s never really given much thought to until now.
Maybe she really wants to be a fighter pilot who makes A+ macaroni, maybe she just said the first thing that came to mind. Maybe she really does decide to pursue the education degree, but because she genuinely wants to teach kids good things and not because “women are meant to be nurturers” or whatever arbitrary sexist bullshit her church taught her. Maybe she decides to do something entirely different from any of this. I wanna see how she explores adulthood and figures out the life path she wants to go down.
TL;DR I’m always ready for Joyce character development.
Joyce reminded me of the Enjoli perfume ad from the 70s:
“Bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan. And never let you forget you’re a man”
They didn’t have pre-cooked microwave bacon back then. The horror …
Pre-cooked microwave bacon exists?! The horror!
Well, yeah, because when I discovered it … there are GIANT packs of the stuff to be had for cheap at Sams/Costco and there were a couple of months … BUT I did get a hold of myself and went cold turkey.
Cold Smoked Turkey is Mmmmmarglargleargl.
i am imagining Joyce’s house is just bursting at the seams from all the gay kids she adopted who got kicked out of their family and church community.
This. This is a beautiful mental image. I shall keep it and treasure it. <3
She descends in her fighter jet to take them away from their abusive communities.
in that scenario, she actually has a giant fishtank type net to scoop up the gay kids.
And then when they turn 18, she uses the same mechanism to drop them off in California. “Go! Leave! Go back to your own kind!”
Complete with ear tags and radio tracking collar, for science.
Now I’m just imagining Joyce as that gay couple in “But I’m a Cheerleader”.
Is that movie any good?
Yes.
Save the Cheerleader, save the….wait.
Wrong Cheerleader.
you think its only a dream but when doa ends and joyce gets her pilots license and joins the military then youll see
That would be epic to see her during the graduation ceremony decked out in full military uniform.
My high-school graduating class had one of the first women to be admitted to the RMC and she made the top jocks look lame in comparison.
Is she saying she wants to enlist in the air force because that’s actually kind of cool. Though I didn’t really peg this version of Joyce as a fly girl, not that I’m saying that she isn’t cut for it just saying I couldn’t tell she had an interest in that.
She didn’t know, either. She’s never thought about being anything except a homemaker before.
Also if the fighting part isn’t important, she could be a non-military flight person, like on private or commercial flights. Or with rocket-boots.
Of course Joyce is fly. She’s radical.
But is she bad enough to save the president?
I wish I could learn how to make mac and cheese too Joyce.
As do I.
Making mac and cheese involves following instructions on the box. That doesn’t sound difficult to me. Elevating mac and cheese to something amazing, however; that isn’t as easy.
Try adding basil, black pepper, garlic, peas, possibly hot-sauce or red pepper, and any veggies you like.
Oh, I have my own ways as well, but I will try that out. Thanks!
Brocolli! LOTS of brocolli!
Ew?!
There are lots of good things you can put in macaroni and cheese, but… but… next you’re gonna say brussel sprouts or something 🙁
(I mean I’m glad you like it, its good for you, but you’d struggle to pay me to eat that)
More for me! 🙂
And I may have to try the Brussel Sprouts: thanks for the suggestion!
Carrots and broccoli are fantastic in Ramen and make for a cheap, healthy staple, but I don’t care for broccoli in my macaroni. Leorale has the right idea; my standard spices for macaroni are dried kelp, sesame seeds, black pepper, garlic, parmesan cheese, and more black pepper.
Cheese sauce can be tricky to get right too. Even if using packaged powder instead of making it oneself, getting just the right combination of butter and milk for the end result to match the creaminess & zesty flavor of using yoghurt as the sauce’s base isn’t guaranteed. (Buying yoghurt isn’t really an option for me, since everyone likes it and it gets gobbled pretty much immediately.)
Red pepper flakes are really good with cheese, to my taste, and with broco, for heat. (Also I like the green, jalapeño Tabasco sauce I many things: that’s mild, but has great flavor.)
I like raw veg: carrots, celery, cuke, cauliflower, bell pepper (capssicum) … but not broco. But I love broco in certain dishes/sauces, eg broco beef. So when I get or make brocolli cheddar soup I load it with brocolli till its like broco stew, almost brocolli with cheese sause. And for mac & cheese it’s like the same but with thick sauce and mac.
I do that with lots of dishes, loading them up with extra veg, not just broco. Eg, chinese take out always has way more sauce than veg, so I veg it up when I get it home.
Salsa is good.
Homemade macaroni and cheese is amazing, especially if it’s seasoned then baked like a casserole.
It can potentially ruin the Kraft stuff for you, though, so proceed with caution.
Throw out the cheese packet. Boil the mac. While it’s still hot, stir in your favorite (finely shredded) cheese. (Even if it’s American “cheese”; I won’t judge.) That’s a start.
A little soured milk is good to make it more a proper sauce than just melted cheese, too. Those who buy hard cheeses can just throw in the heels and leftovers of their cheese supply to make fantastic sauce before restocking.
Don’t throw out the cheese packet though. It’s good on popcorn.
Especially if you use real cheese and avoid anything processed that comes in a bag or brick.
I made a joke and got cooking recipes. I like you people.
These are not the comments you want, but they are the comments you need.
Well Joyce, there are a few ways for you to get started. Flight school, switching majors towards aerospace, getting a heads up on weather classes (which flight licenses do require, I’ve had so many pilots tell me how much they struggled with meteorology classes) exercising regularly in prep for military standards, it’s entirely possible. It’s a lot of work, but manageable.
Yes, there is an art to it; you add two slices of cheese to the milk, pepper, and butter, then stir it all up on a very low flame until it’s all melted, then add the powder and mix it in, and finally add the macaroni, it’s perfection!
now imagine doing all of that while she’s doing skydiving training.
My mom went through a phase where she added ranch dressing to mac and cheese… It didn’t go well, but she sure thought it did.
I’ll take these tips to heart when I make Mac and cheese. But what if I’d like some spicy kick to it. (not Tabasco, I’ve tried and failed already)
I’d say add some paprika or cayenne powder.
Agreed, just the tiniest sprinkle of cayenne is the best. Think just barely dusted. Too much is badtime.
Cayenne is fine. I like to add a splash of habanero sauce, though, and I’m a wuss when it comes to spicy foods; the creaminess of the cheese sauce blunts the spice.
Crushed red pepper = deliciousness
You could also go for a cheese with kick -shred a sharp cheddar or something with peppers into the finished product and stir it to meltiness.
Eh, I feel like using any kind of real cheese, except maybe soft cheeses, would make it all stringy and take away some of the essential Kraft-ness of it.
Cheddar or Jack wouldn’t really make it stringy; that’s mozarella’s speciality.
Siracha sauce
Just a few drops, as much as I like spicy food mac and cheese needs to be on the savory side of the triangle of sweet, savory, and spicy.
I dunno, the creaminess adds savory and blunts the spice so it opens the tastebuds to more intense flavor instead of just searing them with a thousand painful lashes of hellfire, so one can afford to amp up the spice if the sauce is good.
My preferred hot sauce is pretty sweet too though, which probably contributes.
Old Bay is a surprisingly lovely addition to mac and cheese. Never tried it with Kraft, though…
Curry ?
Curry (leaf) powder? Gross.
Curry paste? DELIGHT.
Yeah she is doing a pretty good job at being a cartoon character….not so much the fighter pilot or the mac&cheese
…huh.
Yay! Joyce might get a career!
She must construct additional pylons to get it.( sorry, nerd joke)
Don’t be sorry.
Still can’t make Mac N Cheese taste like the way my sister makes it..
I find Joyce’s career choice rather interesting. It’s very childlike (think of the six-year-old who wants to be EVERY CAREER AT ONCE).
While I feel that the role of homemaker is one that Joyce is definitely much more comfortable with than Becky is, this shows how much it’s affected her. The reason her career choice sounds like something a little kid would say is because it is. That’s probably what she wanted to be when she was a little kid. It hasn’t changed because once she got older becoming a mother and homemaker was literally the only career path she even thought about.
I totally agree. I also think, as far as “thinking about careers” goes, Joyce is probably developmentally not quite where most college students are. That’s not something she ever expected to have a choice in, so it’s not something that she’s ever really considered.
Like, when I was in second grade I wanted to train guide dogs, and my cousin told me I should train bomb-sniffing dogs instead because there was no money in guide dogs. (I have no idea if this is true, I did not research it. This career plan didn’t last long.) That was my introduction to “find something you want to do that you could make money doing”. Joyce probably didn’t have that. She’s kind of still in the phase where every kid wants to be a ballerina or an astronaut.
That being said, if she does wind up becoming a fighter pilot or having her own cartoon show, that would rock.
The only career she was even allowed to think about. Remember not only what Becky said about the limit of their aspirations is to be some dude’s baby factory and free homeschool program, but also what Joyce said here:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/genderidentity/
About how much it was ingrained that there was to be proper “gender identities” so butch and femme were tightly regulated.
Between the two, she definitely wouldn’t have been allowed to even pretend to be a fighter pilot and definitely not to have an in-depth career like cartoonist. These are the trapped dreams of a child finally not being beaten when expressed. This is Joyce being allowed to grow up and start viewing herself as a person rather than a tool to complete someone else’s life.
And this is making me realize that as kids, Joyce and Jocelyne probably often looked longingly at each other’s toys while their parents beamed nearby making gender essentialist statements about how much fun they were having.
I wonder if that’s part of why they seemed to be kinda close -isn’t Jocelyne the second oldest? But if Jocelyne was the only “brother” who’d join in Joyce’s tea parties, and the only one who’d let her play with “his” toys without getting mad -their parents seem relatively laid back -would they really insist that their baby girl play by herself if her siblings were having fun without her because it would be unladylike to join them? Is that a thing parents do?
“would they really insist that their baby girl play by herself if her siblings were having fun without her because it would be unladylike to join them? Is that a thing parents do?”
=c
Yes.
Yet another reason to be oh so happy for Becky. You just know that she found ways to “liberate” a few items from the brothers’ toybox for her and Joyce.
Even if not, “laid-back” sexist parents who are enforcing gender roles have this really insidious thing they do where if you step outside the gender role they’ve assigned you, you get chided gently or in a “joking” manner so they can have the appearance of accepting it while making it very, very obvious it is 100% not okay to the kid. And also conveniently “forgetting” the kid’s actual interests when it comes to activities and toy buying. And if the kid manages to get toys they like or into activities they’re interested in anyway, those things will be subtly sabotaged.
Like my childhood. I spent most of my allowance on tomboyish stuff like pokemon cards, TMNT figurines, that sort of thing. Whenever I got to the store and wanted to get one (with my money, I remind you, because my folks would never buy me anything that wasn’t girly), my mother would wrinkle her nose and sneer, “You want that?! Look, over here, at this doll, it’s so pretty, are you sure you don’t want her instead?” And after I insisted on the TMNT thing or the car or the weather book or whatever it’d be a head shake and a laugh and a “Oh boy you’re going to be so embarrassed about this when you’re older, but okay, if that’s what you really want, we’ll get it. If you’re sure.” Except she wouldn’t drop it there, she’d make some excuse to have to walk through all the store for a good ten or fifteen minutes, the entire time of which she’d be passive-aggressively pressuring me to get a girly toy with my own allowance money (“It’s not very pretty,” and “I’m just worried you’ll grow out of it too quickly, I want you to get something you’ll still have fun with a year from now. It’s a bit of a little-kid thing, don’t you think?” and “It looks kind of stupid, like something a boy would play with. You don’t want to be like a stupid boy, do you?” and “I think it looks stupid.” that sort of thing. By the end of it, if I didn’t defend my choice without ever once getting angry or aggravated and God help me if I showed an “attitude,” only then could I get it (otherwise my toy-getting privileges would be revoked for my “sass”). Or she’d not-so-jokingly refer to me as a boy – I am not trans. Nothing wrong with being trans, but I am and have always thought of myself as a woman/girl, so being misgendered in a disapproving/joking way hurt. And then my sister picked it up and spread it around school and bad things happened on the bullying front but anyway talking about how parents enforce gender roles in sexist environments not how other kids do, although that’s a thing, too.
And usually a month or two after I got the toys, they’d mysteriously disappear from my bedroom (IOW, my mom would throw them away while I was at school) unless I hid them very well. And then my parents both would gaslight me about where it got to, “Well I guess you should keep your room a bit cleaner, if you keep losing things.” Even though I knew damn well that someone had taken it. And I’d get accused of being paranoid and “always” blaming things on my brothers.
And then my parents used the fact that I had mostly girl toys (which they forced on me) and played mostly with girly toys (which was all I had to play with most of the time) as an excuse to veto any boyish activity I wanted to do. And it’d be a soft veto, not “You can’t do it because you’re a girl,” but “I don’t think you’d like it, none of your toys are like that,” and “I don’t want you to feel out-of-place, it’ll be mostly boys there.” and “Don’t you think it’s more of a boy thing, sweetie?” and so on. And, again, the only way I could go for it was if I defended my interest against intense pressure to change it without getting upset, angry, or aggravated even after the “discussion” had gone on for two or three hours of them asking, over and over again, if I was sure I wanted to do a science-based after-school program instead of Brownies or something like it (this was before Girl Guides in my region started being accepting of girls with tomboyish interests, back when it was still all about prepping girls for their Mrs – in my region, that continued well into the 00s). Oh, you want to learn about science? Brownies has a gardening badge! That has science in it, wouldn’t it be fun?! No, I want to learn about science not about gardening. I think someone’s getting a bit cranky. No, I am not getting cranky, you won’t listen. All right, I’ve had enough of your attitude, maybe we just won’t put you in anything.
On the rare occasion I was able to defend a choice I was actually interested in, mysteriously a time conflict would come up and mysteriously they’d only have enough time for me OR my sister but not both to go to what we wanted and conveniently they’d rely on me as the older, “more mature” one to accept that I couldn’t do what I wanted to “this year” but “maybe next year” the schedules would be better (they never were), but just to make things easier on us could you just do [activity my sister wanted] instead? Or they’d say that my sister was worried about not knowing anyone and could I do them a favor by joining for her sake. And then they’d lie to her and say that I’d spontaneously decided that her activity looked more fun (despite the fact that I’d been making fun of it and rolling my eyes at it not even a full day before).
And then whenever they talk about my childhood, they’re always like, “But there are differences between girls and boys. We never forced you to pick, but you would usually choose dolls and stuffies, things you could nurture. Boys pick cars and trucks, things that do stuff. And for activities, you and your sister always wanted to take pet training and Brownies and girly stuff like that. That’s nature.” And the “we-didn’t-force-you-you-chose-it”/”If you’re sure.” gaslighting is to me what I think “I’d die for you” is to Willis: It’s something that will immediately and instinctively give me an adrenaline spike ten years after I quit living with them and immediately puts me in an on-guard mode.
Which probably sounds outrageously silly and petty.
But having all of who you are pressured out of you and gaslighted into oblivion really messes with your head. And my folks probably honestly believe that the choices and personality they rammed down my throat all my childhood really was my “free” and “honest” preference and that Adult Me has just drunk too much feminist Kool Aid to remember things right (something they’ve actually said in so many words to me, on several occasions – see also things like, “Oh, so you’re saying you didn’t want to go to [thing they sent me to] which cost [amount of money]? Weeeeelllll you could have just saved me a bunch of money if you were honest about it!” (when I was honest at the time and they pressured me into going) or things like “I sent you to [activity my much-girlier sister went to] because I was worried you’d be lonely at [activity I actually wanted to go to]. You always had such a hard time making friends.”
(and yeah, fancy that, when you’re not allowed to socialize with any kids who are interested in the things you’re interested in and you’re autistic so making friends without the socialization start point of common interest is really hard, and your sister who resents the fact that it seems you “copy” everything she does when in fact your parents are lying to you both about the situation does her level best to make you a pariah and she’s much better at social skills than you are so it works, you will have a hard time making friends. Go figure.)
But the take-away is to that sort of a culture, it’s not enough that you stick to your gender role, you have to want to stick to your gender role (or, at least, you have to perform wanting to stick to your gender role).
So, yeah, Joyce isn’t used to thinking about what she wants to do, because she’s never had the option to think about what she wants. She’s always had to think about what her parents want her to want. She’s never had an environment where she was genuinely encouraged to think for herself. Her parents probably preach from the nearest mountain that they encourage their kids to think for themselves and that their kids are “smart kids” so completely independently without any pressure at all they just happened to grow up with views that align 100% with their parents. But no. What it actually is, is that Joyce was socially pressured and brainwashed not to ever think for herself. So yeah, her response is like a child’s – because, like a child, she hasn’t developed the self-awareness and critical thinking skills necessary to give “What do you want to do?” serious thought. I was in exactly the same boat when I got to uni, and it took me all of my under grad, a graduate degree, and three years of work experience to gain the skills I needed to figure out what I want to do with myself. I won’t be surprised if it takes Joyce at least as long to really figure herself out.
(I’m not kidding in other threads when I say my childhood and Joyce’s have a lot of parallels. And my folks still think they’re Good Egalitarians* because unlike most of the adults in the community I grew up in, they never came out and told me I wasn’t allowed to do boy stuff. No, they just made it impossible for me to do boyish stuff and manipulated me until I felt like I had to pretend I didn’t like it even though I did and punished me if I got defensive or shirty at having my interests and personality mocked or at being pressured to do what they wanted me to do after they claimed it was a “free choice” or if I pointed out that it wasn’t really my choice because if I picked something they didn’t like they’d just pressure me to change it so why don’t they pick because I don’t feel like playing a guessing game today [that one got me grounded to my room with no contact to the outside world except going to school for three months because “obviously” someone at school was being a “bad influence” to make me have so much of an “attitude”].)
*I have a knee-jerk aversion to anyone who refers to themself as “egalitarian” because IME most people in the “I’m not feminist I’m egalitarian” camp are actually sexists who are trying to re-brand sexism as accepting that men and women are “just different” and if women have a pay gap it’s because of “choices” women make freely and blah blah blah libertarian boostraps BS and just-so stories about how sexism isn’t really sexism it’s just that women are inferior, sucks but it’s true.
that sounds like a harsh environment. gaslighting is one of the abusive childhood environments that is hardest to recover from. especially for anyone with a disability, society at large likes to tell you that your perception of things is what’s wrong. my environment growing up wasn’t nearly as bad, but i can sympathize with being autistic and liking boy things as a kid (although i didn’t identify as a girl, or a boy). thanks for sharing.
(the more i’m reading comments on this webcomic, the more i think this is some kind of support group for adults with abusive childhoods.)
Well, that and unsupported gay kids
And an education for adults (like me) who thought that loving parents were the only kind there were.
Being upset over that is anything but petty or silly.
+1
Reading this thread makes me want to punch shitty parents.
Wow. I actually cannot thank you enough for this. First, because now I know that “gaslighting” is the proper term for what my mother did to me growing up (and continues to do today despite the fact that I’m a grown-ass man). And second, because a similar story from someone else helps me accept and appreciate my own childhood for what it was. As I’m sure you know, situations like this leave you with a feeling of being wronged or manipulated that doesn’t match the “facts” you’re being fed, and so you end up questioning every interpretation or feeling you have, unable to trust yourself about just about anything. This is made doubly difficult for me by the fact that my mother has always been very confident and assertive in her beliefs, so that if I was ever less than completely certain about something, I would just get steamrolled by her opinions. And of course it’s just my luck that now that I’m in a psychoanalysis and reaching a point where I can understand what was done to me, she has reached a point in her life where she’s very psychologically fragile and any mention of her doing a less than stellar job as a parent leads to waterworks and suicide threats…
But anyways, I definitely know what you’re talking about, less in terms of gender roles for me and more in terms of, “that TV show is so stupid, baby Mozart and brain-building games are going to be much more fun for such a smart, advanced kid as you, I promise.” Or, “I guess you can quit the swim team if you really want to… I’m just worried that colleges won’t think you’re well-rounded enough years down the road when you get to high school and start applying. And your friends on the team probably won’t want to spend time with you as much if you aren’t on the team with them. And I’m worried you might get fat!” (Note: this is, to my mother, one of the worst possible fates and a sign of grave moral failings). She was particularly good at the, “here is how you ought to feel about this and why, because that’s how good people think/feel” speeches, too. Which has led to me being completely incapable of making serious decisions for myself or knowing what the fuck I want to do with my life.
And the things going missing! Mein gott! “I have no idea where that went, all I did was tidy up your room a bit. You shouldn’t have such an untidy room if you don’t want stuff going missing.” Or my personal favorite, “what do you mean, 80% of your video games are missing and you found a few in an almost empty box at the garage sale? I never would have sold anything of yours without permission! That’s ridiculous! I only would have gotten rid of games you never played anymore, and even then I would have asked first. You probably just don’t remember, or you weren’t really listening when I asked. It’s not my fault if you said “ok” without really listening to me.”
The worst thing about all of this, though, is my difficulty in convincing myself that it’s actually a serious thing that merits the kind of mental anguish that it still causes me today. Trying to explain it to others who haven’t had similar experiences does not generally evoke much sympathy. “Why didn’t you just put your foot down and be really clear about what you wanted? What do you mean, you weren’t sure if you remembered things correctly or didn’t know for sure if you were right or wrong? If your memory of it was that dim, you probably didn’t remember correctly. Or maybe you or she was genuinely confused.” I can’t count the number of times I’ve had people say to me, “what do you mean you don’t know what you want to do?” Or, “what do you mean you don’t know what kind of job you want? Just follow your gut / find the color of your parachute / follow your passions / find something you enjoy and do it” etc.
How do you explain to someone that your entire mental landscape was built to be controlled and manipulated, that your entire life has been spent trying to figure out what a “good person” should do and make yourself into that, quashing and disowning any feelings that didn’t fit and forcing yourself to feel ways that did? How do you explain that it’s not as simple as, “you’re an adult now, get over it,” or, “just move on and live your life.” And how do you explain that the woman that loves little children, is so sweet and nice when you first meet her, that regularly breaks down crying and talking about how she wanted to keep you from ever feeling pain and how she would die for you, how do you explain that this person steamrolled your brain flat and then twisted it into a pretzel while you were young? These days, when I get frustrated or angry with her, she often winds up sobbing back at me, “everyone sees how cruel you are to me. You know that? Everyone I know tells me, ‘I’m sorry. I’m sorry he treats you that way, it’s him, not you. I don’t know why he’s so horrible.'” And I believe her! There aren’t many people that knew me as a child that she hasn’t driven away. Most of these new people don’t know the history, and even those that knew me as a kid didn’t know the whole story. But it’s another little bit of leverage that she can use to convince herself that she’s right and convince me that I’m wrong and am “not the child [she] raised.”
Ugh, sorry, that got really crazed-rant-y there at the end. I only meant to thank you and make a show of solidarity. So… yeah. Thanks.
Holy dumbing of novel batman!
Wow, just wow, I am sorry you had such a shitty childhood. After reading that, I am so glad we let our kids play with whatever they wanted and to try whatever the hell they were interested in.
If you set up a GoFundMe for people to buy you Transformers toys, I will contribute.
ischemgeek: yeah none of that was “outrageously petty or silly” at all. Now I just wanna pee in your parents’ cereal or something
That’s… that’s horrible. Thanks so much for sharing, ischemgeek and Unerringly Errant. I’m so glad at least you have come to a place where you can see your parent’s action for the gaslighting it was.
Parents have such a tremendous power over their children and… wow. yeah, I can really hear those words in the mouth of Ethan’s mom. “You may think you are gay now, but I just worry you will regret t in a year or two…”
All power, internet hugs and sympathy by light touch to you.
Thank you for sharing this! I had so many of the same issues growing up, except I AM trans.
JFC, the self loathing and SHAME!
Don’t you ever feel bad for still hurting over it, or feeling petty. That stuff cuts deep and undermines your very sense of self.
someone get joyce a captain marvel subscription, stat.
Yasss
This is so touching! 🙂
Meanwhile:
Walky: I love you, pumpkin!
Joe: I love you too, dingus! *Passionate embrace and kisses
Until one day, when Walky accidentally calls Joe “Pupkin.”
One bitter divorce later….
I have this image. Mr. Willis looks down at panel #5 and thinks, “Joyce said what?.”
I don’t know anything about his writing style, but I’ve seen a lot of authors say that when your characters start doing unexpected things or talking back, it is a big sign that You Are Doing It Right.
Exactly! Real characters write their own dialog.
Robert Heinlein once described his writing style as, “I chase my characters up a tall tree, and wait for them to tell me how to get them down.”
That Panel 4! Her eyes are lit up.
Given what Becky said here:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/aspirations/
I think this might be the first time that someone has ever told her that she can be anything she wants without strings or expectations.
And it’s so very telling that despite the stated degree in education, being a teacher didn’t make that overachieving list. She wants to be a fighter pilot, flying high, she wants to make cartoons that affect people as much as one has affected her, and yes, she does want to be a mother.
But she’s not a teacher. And it’s clearer than ever that the reason she is on this path is entirely in service to the expectation that she’ll be acquiring her Mrs. Degree and then retiring to unpaid servitude raising homeschooled children.
But hopefully, Dorothy here has placed the first spark for her to genuinely think about what she wants from life and what she would want to be if it wasn’t for these expected roles.
I genuinely think that those specific things were what she wanted to grow up to be as a little kid.
(And now you need the mental image of a tiny Joyce sitting in a box pretending to be fighter pilot.)
Accompanying that image is her parents, disapproving, but smiling because at least she’s having fun; Becky, her winglady; and Becky’s parents, who begrudgingly let this slide because her father is conflicted between telling her daughter her “role” in life and the pride he feels because it’s like she’s being patriotic towards the country and her family, she’s like one of God’s fighting angels.
In fact, I would think that the whole pretend scenario would be Joyce and Becky flying a jet and bombing the godless heathens of the country to hell.
I think the Browns, and Mrs. Mackintyre, might object to something so violent and unladylike. Perhaps reconnaissance.
Now I want to travel back in time to send Joyce a “Captain Scarlet” DVD because of the secondary “Angel” women fighter pilots. Might get past her parents while still being subversive.
The trick is to not add too much milk and add slightly more butter than the recipe calls for. At least that’s what has worked for me.
I find keeping the butter the same, while reducing the milk results in the best…uh…results. The sauce actually has flavour that way.
Yup. Or just ignore them both and use yoghurt.
A common phrase people use there is “yields the best results” 🙂 Also, I agree. Actually, since I’m often out of milk, I generally end up using a tiiiiny amount of water and a bunch of butter.
Also, I guess Joyce just wants to tryyyyyyy~de~fy~ing grav~i~ty!
Aaand now my mind has superimposed Joyce’s face on Freddie Mercury’s body as he sings the refrain from “Don’t Stop Me Now”
It’s a glorious view.
See? Start questioning God’s Will and the next thing you know you’re breaking the laws of physics! Where will it end?
edit where joyce is a parfait
http://i.imgur.com/2jlj1aK.png
dont ask
I was laughing and asking* “Why?” at the same time.
I feel confident that this is what you wanted to achieve. So well played.
*I know I wasn’t supposed to, but really, how could I not?
She wasn’t sweet enough as it was?
But Joyce isn’t an Ogre!
everybody loves a parfait!
So that’s what a parfait looks like.
That’s parfait.
That parfait girl
(and it still looks like her head is 90% teeth)
So, from Kraft Mac & Cheese to Krafft-Ebbing and back again!
Honestly this is the first time I’ve ever really felt anything for joyce, she’s starting to seem like a real person and not just a caricature.
Well, points for feeling something, at least. I think you’re way off base about her being a caricature, but w/e.
Joyce’s religious upbringing is autobiographical. It’s even stated in the FAQ link at the top.
So the hundreds of posts saying their childhoods were exactly like Joyce’s for the entire duration of the comic didn’t get you to realise she’s a real character?
they were always real to me.
Go, Joyce! Pursue that Fighter Pilot major with a minor in Cartoon Show Celebrity. We all would.
Apparently Willis is Canadian…
No, to a Canuck that’s called Kraft Dinner. Only us unwashed Murricans call it Kraft Mac & Cheese.
The question is: does she just genuinely love Kraft that much, or did she just want to include something familiar she knows she can do?
I interpreted the whole thing as a former childhood dream, and Kraft being her favourite brand as a little kid.
I think both.
Red Joyce, Standing by!
Now the overachieving difficult part of that goal is actually the coming home part. She would be super busy being in the military and writing/directing a cartoon.
Heh. This seemed kind of out-of-nowhere until I remembered jetpack!Joyce from It’s Walky. Still, it’s kind of mind boggling to think of ladylike Joyce (cos Joyce isn’t really girly as much as…really feminine? conforming to traditional feminine roles) wanting to be a fighter pilot. That’s awesome.
Joyce, in another continuity you had a JETPACK. You were both a fighter AND a pilot.
Not so much of an overachiever.
I love everything about this strip, and Dorothy being kind to Joyce, and Joyce getting to think about what she’d like to do, and Joyce being totally awesome in there, all along.
Dumbing of Age Year Six: This Air Force Academy is a God Damned Shamepit, Full of Lust Wolves
This is a really sweet Joyce n Dorothy moment. Perhaps the triangle smile will return before this class ends…
“But Joyce, your mac’n’cheese is pretty shit”
“I know.”
“And after… Family business… You can’t come home either”
“I know.”
Joyce and Walky would never ever work out, then.
(you don’t have to explain me what happens in other universes, kthnks)
Walky can do the cooking.
Sure, he’s Walky, but it’s Kraft. I’m not sure how you screw that up.
Over-boiling the macaroni. Burning the macaroni. Not draining the macaroni (yes, I actually did that once; that’s what happens when you’re over eager).
The secret is to not make it according to the directions on the package. The specifics of what to do is left as an exercise for the reader.
PLOT TWIST, she knows how to fly a jet
Darnit! I make the joke and soon as I post it, I glance up and see your post. Now I feel foolish.
Don’t worry, others beat you both to the joke.
If it means anything, I thought your delivery of the joke was better even if I beat you by 2 minutes
I had no idea Joyce had a pilot’s license!
Now you’re thinking girl!
I know a couple fighter pilots. Other than the cartoon bit, the rest is true.
My step-dad wanted to be a fighter pilot, but his glasses got in the way.
I was going to be a WSO, but my Fred Flintstone body proportions prevented it. It really helps to have your helmet below the canopy breaker on the ejection seat unless you don’t want to survive the punch-out. Also it would have been hard to get the canopy closed in the first place because my torso was so long. It turned out for the best, though. I would have been back-seating one of those Wild Weasels in Desert Storm had I gotten in.
Those guys have massive balls to do that job, even among fighter pilots, which is inherently a big-balls job to start with. Anyone who deliberately baits anti-air missile batteries is a god, as far as I am concerned.
It’s true, even though the stuff is easy to make (and is crap), it is possible to ruin Kraft Mac ‘n Cheese. I’ve done it before and I’ve taken a professional cooking course, for what good it’s done me.
I’ve also managed to burn a pot of water.
Either your cooking class paid off (not everybody can burn water), or you must be a Sim…
I don’t know about you, but I often have a hard time doing the boxed versions of things I know how to cook normally. I’ve been doing pancakes since I was 6, but I screwed up pancake mix enough times that I don’t feel confident in assuming I still remember how to make it.
You know, this is a day late, but it occurs to me that from what we’ve seen, Dorothy and Joyce are roleplaying a lesbian marriage, whereas Joe and Walky are doing a heterosexual one. I wonder if that’s representative of the class’s same-sex pairings at large, and if so, whether Leslie will comment on it.
Huh. You have an interesting point (I mean, add in “stereotypical” for ea) and I’m curious to see where this goes too. Leslie will almost certainly say *something* but I’m curious what/ how general
Dare to imagine…
Ok, here’s hoping that Joyce is informed of some of the amazing things women pilots have done. I’m personally particularly fond of Night Bomber Regiment 588, better known as the Night Witches. Sure it may be bomber instead of fighter, but I think Joyce would really like to hear about these sorts of things.
You made me Google that.
Thank you.
I’m a big history buff. I do vaguely remember hearing about this group some years ago, but I had forgotten about them.
Hardly surprising. Many women served in the Soviet counterattack on the Nazis during WWII, but received little recognition for their contribution after the war and with little to no mention of them in schools, post war generations quickly forgot them. And since western historians were only interested in documenting the atrocities the Red Army inflicted on the civilian population, the night witches never received the recognition they deserved here either.
The Night Witches were awesome .
Ah, a fellow Sabaton fan I take it? Resist and Bite!
More recently, she might want to google USAF Capt. (later Major) Kim Campbell, who not only flew and fought an A-10 through Desert Storm but landed one safely after it had been chewed up by Iraqi AA. Distinguished Flying Cross, and all that.
You are full of cool things! Thank you!
Joyce isn’t even in the Air Force, since she doesn’t want to kill people. She simply flies a fighter plane for shows and charges for rides.
Nah, she shoots at cartoon monsters that threaten the city until they give up and go home
Just think, if there’s like four more people, they could all have transforming jets that could combine into a Megazord or something.
I find this phantasy cutests than a bunch of bunnies. 🙂
Bunnies are cute, Vulcan guns are cuter?
Bunnies equipped with Vulcan cannons for the win.
Bunnies aren’t just cute, like everyone supposes
They’ve got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses
And what’s with all those carrots?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?!
Walky, chair-lifts Dorothy.
“WE ARE SWITCHING!!!”
Joyce: “Um, OK, so I’m a fighter pilot.”
Walky: “I’m a fighter pilot too. I’m in charge of eating natchos.”
Joyce: “Then I’m charge of watching cartoons and the Kraft Macaroni and Cheese”
*15 minutes fun escapism that doesn’t address the issue*
Dorothy: “Um… OK, let’s have a comprehensive discussion of task division based on different relationship models.”
Joe: “…can I have the doofus back please?”
…This is getting pretty cute.
Today’s key learning: Asking Joyce to freely express her fantasies leads to random and hilarious eccentricity. I wonder what made her choose ‘fighter pilot’? I’m more and more sure that she and Becky, when younger, used to sneak down to the comic book store to binge on ‘forbidden’ secular culture.
Jeez… she is depressed, isn’t she? Look at her body language! Someone hug her already and don’t let go until she’s had a cry about this!
Why do you chose to denigrate Joyce’s choices like that?
I have absolutely no idea what you mean.
While the positive effects of ‘primal scream’ therapy were in doubt last time I had any reason to research it, it seems Joyce needs to be taken to a field in the middle of nowhere and just be allowed to rage at the universe to get all this crap out of her system.
Fighter pilot, &c: brilliant. Indeed, Mr. Willis, art.
I love that Leslie’s getting a productive lesson that’s relatively low on drama for once. Where the students are learning in (more or less) the way she planned. I’m genuinely happy for her.
Now I’m desperately hoping I haven’t jinxed anything.
This is Willis. Drama will always be there. ALWAYS!
So… Has Joyce just confessed to being a Macross fan?
Obviously not, since she didn’t mention musicians or gutwrenching deaths or hilariously awkward interspecies romance.
Give her time.
Considering Joyce’s current crisis of faith, I’m curious what her stance would be on whether to raise their hypothetical children areligiously.
Okay, but by “a fighter pilot who has her own cartoon show,” does she mean she’s both a fighter pilot and the showrunner for a cartoon, or does she mean she’s a fighter pilot and there’s a cartoon about her?
The latter is how I took it. Seems more in keeping with the rest of the fantasy.
Of course, she want to be Bukaroo Bonsai.
A surgeon physicist musician who grows tiny trees?
Awesome, if Sal had known Joyce was a fighter pilot all the time they would be besties since the first second they met!
Guys, guys, guys…
(I don’t know if anyones said this, but:)
One of them wants to be an aircraft pilot, the other–a government official.
It’s not quite (as in at all) perfect… but I might be able to say that they totally want to be Shortpacked! Leslie (Aircraft pilot) and Robin (Government official).
Someone’s gotta fly Air Force One, you know.
In an alternate universe, Joyce is Maverick and Dorothy is Goose.
I feel the need. The need… for speed! *high five*
But…
*spoilers*
Dorothy will die!
A real President never dies, not even when she’s killed!
Willis, please…
At least a DeviantArt or Tumblr sketch of Joyce in an Air Force uniform?
Flight suit or class A?
No, what I want to see is Joyce sitting on the roof of a house, wearing aviator goggles just like the WWI ace.
Is a fighter pilot?
*She’s
Ah, Joyce’s scary-big eyes in the fourth panel. It’s nice to see her excited about something again, even if its just for a moment.
And I bet you’ll all be surprised to find out that one thing she’s already good at isn’t making Kraft Mac and cheese.
I just realized that Dorothy has a barely visible line above her mouth that I assume is meant to be her upper lip. And I can’t stop seeing it as a mustache.
Well, at least she’s interested now. I don’t think it’s the sort if answer Leslie is interested in, since she probably wants to see how the couples deal with making compromises and Joyce’s schedule would require more than 24 hours a day, but taking an active part in the exercise beats leaving it all for the other to decide.
I wonder if by “my own cartoon show” she means being a cartoonist or being the star of the show as a character based on her (Dorothy did say ANYTHING). I don’t recall her demonstrating an interest in drawing other than her stint as the dingdong bandit.
By the way, my mobile connection spritzed a little just now so please try to ignore it if there are three instances of this comment or something like that.
Your good. I think Willis got an add-on or something that prevents double posting. I’ve run across it several times.
I feel like I need Joyce’s face in panel 5 as a gravatar.
Friend marriage 😀
I have a friend wife. She’s my bffl.
“Friend marriages” should be more of an actual thing.
Transformers have them. It’s pretty cool.
My first thought was: “what the hell is a biffle?”
In this group, Googling unknown words can be dangerous.
best friend for life, ‘cuz marriage has that “til death do us part” clause.
Oh, this is going to go to a dark place.
Really, really, really dark.
I thought maybe Joyce was going to go through depression or a challenge to her faith or a general mental breakdown, but it’s even worse than that.
She’s going to get into video gaming.
FLIGHT SIM video gaming.
On a diet consisting principally of macaroni and cheese.
HAS AMERICA’S YOUTH FALLEN SO FAR AS THIS???
I now desperately want Joyce to actually become a fighter pilot, now. You go, Joyce; Make Poe Dameron proud.
Joyce does the lip bite.
A nation melts (like cheese sauce).
This is my favorite Joyce strip.
DO NOT RINSE THE MACARONI
THERE IS ONE THOUSAND PERCENT AN ART TO MAKING BOX MACARONI AND CHEESE REALLY GOOD AND LORD KNOWS I DON’T KNOW HOW TO DO IT RIGHT.
God bless moms and their ability to magically make all mac n’ cheese amazing.
I agree. There is definitely an art to Mac & Cheese. I drop eggs into the boiling water when I add the noodles, as well as jalapenos. Then I add an extra handful of real cheese (usually fiesta blend, unless I have spicy cheddar slices) when I add the powder. It’s so, so good.
What I love here so much is how Dorothy’s comment is
a.) respectfully phrased
b.) clearly a response to Joyce’s glum expression.
There’s nothing preachy about it… Just concern for her friend.
Two simple ways to enhance blue-box Mac & Cheese: 1) Mix the sauce without the noodles in it, on the stove over heat (if you’re using the traditional method of cooking) and then add the noodles back after the sauce is properly mixed – this makes the sauce less gritty; 2) add two slices of American Cheese to the Mac & Cheese after mixing the noodles and sauce, and let them melt – this makes the sauce creamier, and more like cheese.
Also, interestingly enough, there’s a company that puts out a microwave Ramen/Mac&Cheese plastic cooking vessel (the Mac&Cheese one is just bigger than the Ramen one). They actually work pretty decently for quick Ramen/Mac&Cheese. They’re cheap and I recommend them.
But what would be her Callsign??
“Blue Eyes”.
White dragon?
“Triangle Smile”
Wow.
This is the first time she has expressed a desire to do ANYTHING with her life that was, well, her OWN idea.
Even if it’s a fantasy, admitting you want to be a fighter pilot is a big step up from assuming you need to be a stay at home mom.
Dorothy is the best. I just wanted to say that.
Hey, I understood that reference! 😀
I love the look on Dorothy’s face in panel 3 – I could see her being Presidential. The Creator of Opportunity for All.
Turns out Joyce is much more like Walky than either of them wants to admit.
Joyce and Walky in chorus: “ARE NOT!!!”
A fighter pilot. Who inspires kids to become cartoonists.
Why no, alt-text. I didn’t think that piloting a fighter jet was simple!
You know, I was expecting more argumentation over Kraft mac&cheese vs Kraft Dinner considering the strips’ title.
THE ART OF KRAFT #geddit