You can get away with a much smaller rocket than a Saturn V if you intend to leave them there. You save the weight of all the fuel, engines and parachutes that’d be needed for the return trip. In turn this saves you the weight of the fuel that would be required to lift all that stuff from Earth, into orbit, then to the moon. 🙂
It could be if we built a magnetic cannon accelerator. I mean, sure, there’s an initial cost while we build the infrastructure, but the ongoing costs are super low.
According to Verne, all you need is a Columbiad space cannon. Orlando Furioso got there in a chariot (it was Elijah’s though, so that might prove too difficult to get hold of).
(puts on black head cover)
Captain Button, It is the sentence of this court that you shall be taken to a place to be determined by this court and there you shall attack a female volunteer whilst calling her weak for not fighting back in the full view of Amazigirl.
Fred and Ethel the neighbors were on another show. Norton and … Trixie, I think? And of course it’d be Walky and Dot, the loons next door who somehow manage to be the normal-ish ones.
She did. I clicked the “Joyce pinned it on herself, too.” link above, then went back to the beginning of that story arc and read the whole thing again. She completely hit him (along with Mike), owned it, felt conflicted, and tried to end the night on a good note out of her sense of “duty” to the date.
I’m actually glad I went back to re-read. I like Joe even more than I remembered. Kid’s dealing with a lot and coping terribly, just like a lot of other cast members, but he keeps getting pissed on by others because of the sexualized nature of his coping.
Honestly that scene shows Joe pretty much at his best, mostly because Joyce and Mike are so horrible in it he looks good by comparison.
Outside of that scene he doesn’t come off so well. The RSS feed of his To do list, neatly ranked by numbered attractiveness is skeevy as hell, especially as he adds his best friends ex to it as soon as they break up. It’s played for laughs, like much of Joe’s behavior, but … ick.
The “alcohol helps threesomes” bit is more directly worse those, showing that he’s perfectly happy with booze convincing girls to do things they wouldn’t otherwise.
I don’t care that he gets laid a lot. I do care about how he goes about it and about his attitude towards women.
This on both accounts. I also agree that there were parts of that scene that show Joe at his best, largely that we see some of his mask break down early on in the date simply because Joyce keeps him off guard and off-message during those moments. So we get to see him show some amount of consternation when he sees how Joyce has prettied up regarding his presentation. We see him reveal his still fresh wounds about his parents’ divorce and how that still haunts him and makes him shy away from feels. And yes, we see him as victim to Mike’s barrage and Joyce’s belief that naughty words and showing signs of lust > actual violence and that’s monumentally fucked up and awful*.
And also agree on him coming off pretty awful surrounding that scene with his “I’ll fix Joyce with my dick”, “alcohol facilitates threesomes”, rss feed of his numbered list, and continuing and hit on and letch at people giving all the signs that they aren’t interested.
I dunno, conversations with others earlier this week has rekindled my hope that we’ll see a less… just generally awful Joe if he can just push through this need to project this kind of creepy His Dad Lite toxic PUA thing he’s got going on and actually become someone who isn’t scared of showing vulnerability and sweetness.
Honestly, respectful, thoughtful lover guy gets you a lot better reputation in sex positive circles than that creeper who can’t stop talking about his dick for 5 seconds.
*Though I would argue we also see signs in that scene of how he potentially opens up “seductions” of women and it raises some red flags for me personally, but YMMV.
For all of his flaws, Joe seems to understand that no means no. I don’t remember when exactly, but there was a conversation between him and Sarah where she clearly told him she wasn’t interested and he immediately backed off.
Of course, this being Sarah, it might have helped that her version of “not interested” was a death threat. 😛
Technically wasn’t hired. Mike was asked to escort, he agreed because there was potential for face punching. Joe tried to pay him to NOT face punch. Mike stuck with his morals about face punching.
If that makes Joyce the Luke figure, then what I want to see is the scene where they realize they have a common enemy and bring the Force and the Dark Side to work together.
*both facing the front of the room*
Jo-Jo: This is not the exercise you meant to assign.
Leslie: This is not the exercise I meant to assign.
Jo-Jo: In fact, you should cancel class entirely.
Leslie: In fact, I should cancel class entirely.
Vulcan mind-meld requires physical contact, doesn’t it? That’s not in the cards for these two! Besides, they’re not sharing—they’re just directing two streams of power at the same target for the same reason. I’m not an expert on Star Trek through the various series, but I know the original Star Trek well g, and this is not what Vulcan mind-meld looked like.
There’s one rather dodgy case in “A Taste of Armageddon” where he apparently does… something through a wall, to get a guard to come into the room to investigate.
I’ve never actually encountered a donkey on a farm. Horse ranch, canyon tour, parade, sure, but ‘farm animals’ tends to make me think of animals that produce consumables like milk and eggs.
I’m just excited for the eventual fight between Dorothy and Walky. We know that they’re not planning to get hitched, which means they’ve got some unresolved issues ready to strike.
I’m guessing it’s going to be some kind of thing about marriage equality, similar to that exercise where they divide the classroom up randomly into “first world country” (only a few people) and “third world country” (most of the people) and give you uneven amounts of like, M&Ms or whatever based on which part you’re in.
That or about gendered expectations in relationships or maybe even about learning to model a relationship surrounding what you want rather than what is just done. There’s a lot in this basic setup that can be mined and given Leslie’s background in comic of how she leads her class, I think this is going to turn out really cool (but again, I’m a giant sucker for the Leslie is teaching type strips).
Now that Joyce is having all kinds of realizations about the world, she can review her past with Joe and see that she was much more the problem than he ever was.
Right?
Joe: Starts off intending to have some consensual sex with Joyce. Backs off when she proves uninterested. Tries to be polite and friendly afterwards until it becomes clear that she basically hates him. Still occasionally makes inappropriate jokes, but mostly leaves her alone.
Joyce: Starts off their relationship by hiring a man to punch him. Punches him herself at one point. Constantly expresses her disapproval for his personal sex life. Insults him almost every time she sees him.
I mean, I’m not excusing Joe completely. Both of them have things they need to work on, and I actually like both of them as characters. But Joyce really can’t blame all their problems on Joe just because he’s a bit of an ass sometimes.
I’m starting to think everything was due to Mike manipulating them, basically anytime something bad happens, and Mike is involved, I just assume Mike had something to do with it. Dudes evil.
Mike is not evil; Mike is an utter bastard of a Bodhisattva. His being a complete asshole has always ended with his targets coming to important realizations and undergoing significant personal growth.
He slutshamed Dorothy by invading her gender studies and making her out to be so desperate as to make out with someone like Walky, tried to humiliate her further when she tried to take a pair of Danny’s shoes, got into Walky’s bed to take photos of the two of them laying together, harassed Joyce by standing outside her door drawing dicks on her whiteboard, and told Amber she was doomed to become an abusive monster because she sought partners who weren’t like her father.
This. And he beat up on Ethan about his sexuality vis a vis Chik fil’A
Actually, here’s a question. Has anyone ended up in a better, more mature place because of a successful Mike attack?
Like, Ethan after Mike’s “help” went running screaming back in the closet with Joyce. Amber has responded to Mike’s “you’re going to be an abuser” by trying to enforce stricter mental barriers between her alters and making a bad mental situation worse. Joyce had a breakdown in the middle of the common area at the end of the Whiteboard Dingdong Saga.
Like, pretty much the only person who has ended up in better places after a Mike Encounter has been Dorothy and it’s always been in spite of Mike and after Mike failed in his awfulness. He wanted to break Dorothy and Walky up, it brought them closer together. He wanted to make the room an unsafe space for them, she’s been getting more comfortable hanging around him. He wanted to stir up drama with Danny, she repairs that friendship and has been there for him on things like his bi discovery.
So really, the only real way to not have your life made worse by a Mike Encounter is to either let him beat someone up for you so he more or less leaves you alone or to constantly be defeating his repeated attempts to snipe at you.
This is an immature version of Mike who makes mistakes. But he performs a genuine service in forcing people to confront their internal contradictions. And he gets to do it while being a glorious pain in the ass.
So what you’re saying is that he’s a gross shithead violating the agency of people around him in really vile ways in an attempt to force them to act in a way he sees fit.
But right now, Ethan’s back where he was at the beginning of the strip. Recently out, conflicted about it, sad that he can’t do more to help Amber. Really, the only things that are putting him in a “better” more self-accepting space are Danny making him feel less alone with this discovering queerness thing and Joyce reprising the role Amber apparently had pre-college of quietly supporting and encouraging him (which Amber may have reprised eventually this semester and which had a better chance of happening when Mike wasn’t making “reunion happy fun times” a bitter reprisal of all their most painful moments (like bringing up prom a bunch of times)).
And Amber… yeah, Amber’s not in a better place than the beginning of the comic and a lot of that is her direct response to Mike playing on her fears making her more invested in forcing more compartmentalization and specialization among her alters which is leading to worse behavior among her alters, more stress, and more consideration of them as separate individuals.
And again, Dorothy is only in a better place because she’s successfully fought him off whenever he’s gone after her. Saying Mike is responsible for that is like saying that the emotional strength someone fighting off their stalker displays is because of the stalker.
That’s Walkyverse Mike. That does not seem to be this Mike. Remember, while the characters share a lot of the same traits, they are not the same characters, and they do have one or two key differences.
The big one for Mike seems to be that he really is just a jerk, instead of having alien super power jerkedness that forces other people to improve themselves.
Mike is neutral evil AKA the asshole alignment. He doesn’t have principles he just does whatever will suit his whims and needs regardless of its impact on others. He has no vested interest in either supporting or disrupting order it all depends on what will allow him to cause the most amount of grief.
Based on what we’ve seen of him so far, Mike has definitely given the impression of someone who’s spiteful enough to grab any oppurtunity to be a pain in the ass to everyone in whichever way he can. While I am a fan of his sarcasm and cynical demeanor, he does strike me as the living personification of a migraine.
Considering the other stuff that happened to her since then, I’d be surprised if “my first date didn’t turn out to be Mr. Right” even registers as a problem on her radar anymore.
It may not be a problem for HER (though her attitude towards him continues to be abusive). Whatever she has gone through doesn’t alter the fact that she assaulted him.
I could see that as being a potential thing. Experiences like that tend to be nightmare fuel and we already know she’s been having nightmares about Ryan.
Joe: Dan! Why didn’t you tell me? You told me that Anti-Joyce betrayed and murdered my wife.
Dan: Your wife… was seduced by the Dark Side of the Assignment. She ceased to be the good Joyce and “became” Anti-Joyce. When that happened, the good woman who was your wife was destroyed. So, what I told you was true… from a certain point of view.
Also, potential development for Joe to confront his fear of long-term relationships and his parents’ divorce. I hope SOMETHING happens here, and not just Joe refusing to participate. Or maybe his refusal to participate will spurn some debate about his own issues.
Also, as much as I wouldn’t want anyone to be punched in the face, if Joe’s comments warrant it, I won’t feel sorry for him.
That’s “spur” then, the meaning coming from spurring a horse to get it to start moving. Spurn means… [pulls up Google so I don’t have to define it myself “reject with disdain or contempt.” So kind of the opposite, actually.
And I doubt she’s the only woman w/ woman pairing given the depictions of background characters in the past and how Gender Studies classes tend to skew.
They were allowed to pick partners in the last page. Roz partnered with a girl of unknown name (either Jen or Sue, depending on whether you ask Roz or SueJen). I’m not sure if we know who else is in the class?
I think Roz is more likely to try and negotiate for an open marriage sort of thing. She likes sex, but she’s straightforward and up front about things in general. The sneakiness of ‘cheating’ isn’t her style, IMO.
The way things are now non-monogamous is poly. There are a lot of poly people practicing serial monogamy instead of true poly because of monogamiheteronormativity.
Beg to differ. There are open marriages where there is a significant relationship with a partner and potentially many non-serious ones vs. poly which allows for multiple serious relationships. A significant difference in use of the terms.
Also, though I’m not sure it was meant, most serial monogamy has nothing to do with poly, just failed relationships.
I could be wrong, but I’m not sure that serial monogamy would be correlated with being poly at all. Many people who’d rather be in a polygamous relationshop might be in a monogamous one due to pressure from social norms, but I don’t see that necessarily pushing them to leave and go to another monogamous relationship.
Walkyverse!Roz had a moment where she talked about how she wanted a serious relationship she felt she never got, but that Roz was also in her mid to late twenties and went through some stuff as well.
i have a strong feeling that Roz is going to win this game. first she will negotiate to the next group over to create a 4-way marriage for economic adaptability and shared childcare resources. soon she will accumulate at least half of the class into some communal economic and childcare co-operative group marriage. then she will declare war on the mono-marriages left in the room. all shall love Roz and despair!
I don’t think Roz is gonna cheat. If she’s as sexually progressive as she seems to be, I’m sure she’d try to work out an open relationship with her partner.
um…i just meant that roz was gonna continue doing her thing and that it would in some way hilariously matter either to her partner or to the project (since it obviously in no way should), and she’d be stuck in some kind of ‘counseling’ situation. i wasn’t implying that roz would be an inconsiderate lover who would openly cheat in real relationships, just that she probably wouldn’t take this project very seriously
I dunno, she might take it seriously given her passion about queer rights, freedom to define relationships, and so forth. Honestly, given her… passion, poor Jen/Sue/Anna might end up being bowled over a little depending on the structure of this assignment.
Ok, you are right, that is more likely. I was trying to come up with a comical direction for this to go in, but roz drafting a prenup for a confused sue works brilliantly
Now I’m reminded that I heard that there were fan edits to Becky’s double middle finger gesture. And these edits were something other than things like giving Becky extra mechanical arms in order to achieve more than two middle fingers. Sometimes I have trouble understanding people.
Oh hey, this has me wondering, when was the first time you called someone a “jackass”, Willis? Was it a particularly memorable moment or was it just another day?
Calling someone a jenny-ass was actually not uncommon in, say, Regency England – it wasn’t considered swearing, but a way of saying someone (identified as female) was acting silly. It could be an insult, but it was often used somewhat endearingly by the standards of the day.
Back in the 1940s and 1950s, apparently “jackass” wasn’t even considered swearing, at least not in the US. I listen to a lot of American old time radio shows from that era (drama, comedy, detective shows and so on.) They were extremely strict about swearing then, no damns or hell even. Hell, you couldn’t even say “belly” apparently–on one sitcom, one of the main characters would sing a silly song where the obvious rhyme would be “belly”, but he’d change it to “tummy”. Yet I’ve heard the word “jackass” used on at least a couple shows.
Joyce has one time said cheese bags instead of d bags, and butt opening instead of butt hole because the latter options reminded her too much of a swear. Her filter is not going to take into account the sort of distinction your making. (Though the filter is also going away now)
Judging by the comments of the past, it’d just be a vice versa reaction. It seems like the consensus is that punching is bad, and constantly being sexually assertive to every woman with a vagina is okay, if a bit irritating.
Putting it that way, I can see how people side with Joe more than Joyce, but Joe has other flaws that I can’t look past, since some of them used to be my flaws too.
That does not even vaguely resemble what Uniqueantique is accusing Joe of, which I’m pretty sure is not a thing that has ever happened in this universe.
Well, he does continue to make jokes at and go heavy predator mode on women who have very “not interested” body language or who have communicated their noes extremely… well, sometimes straight up violently as in the case with Joyce.
But if you’re talking about literally trying to shove his literal dick in someone’s literal face. No. He’s not an overt rapist like Ryan.
Uniqueantique, and I’m not sure why I have to quote this because it’s right up there at the beginning of this comment thread, is talking about Joe being “an ‘in your face with my unit’ exhibitionist” and “flashing goodies”. I infer from the common English meanings of those words that they’re talking about Joe literally exposing his literal penis to people who literally don’t want to see it. That has nothing to do with Joe touching people’s shoulders without obtaining prior consent, and, again, I’m pretty sure it isn’t a thing that’s happened at any point in this comic.
It is true that Joe (and Roz) starred in an Internet porno, in which his unit was at least partially visible (and partially in Roz), but no one was forced to watch that who didn’t want to.
(Walky has exposed his unit to people who didn’t want to see it…)
He’s not a secret rapist either, so I don’t understand why you put that “overt” there. There’s a big difference between Ryan and a guy who touches your shoulder without asking first.
Yes. Yes. There is. 100% agree. Honestly, he’s not in comic been shown to be a rapist.
…so, where I have my hesitation in stating fully 100% that this character isn’t a rapist is in his “alcohol facilitates threesomes” and “fix her with my penis” malarky. Yes, it’s 99% probable he has only had consensual sex, but those are such high-risk with other people’s consent views and actions that I have my red flag concerns that he has or is going to cross someone’s consent in a bad way largely because he’s not taking the proper precautions.
But then, I’m way more prickly on issues of consent than most people due to my background and major focus of my activism.
I agree. A touch is not necessarily non-consensual unless one party specifically says so. If I come up behind my lady friend and reach around from behind to cover her eyes in a playful manner — well yes, I have touched her … and gasp!! without asking her permission first. But there is a big effin’ difference between something like this and reaching out and fondling the twins … and the sooner we learn to realize the degree of difference, the better off for all concerned.
That touch – arm around Sierra’s waist, pulling her into him – isn’t “fondling the twins, but it’s pretty intimate nonetheless. And I don’t recall that Joe knows Sierra more than very casually.
It’s one thing when it’s someone you know well enough to know they usually welcome it. Even informally you’ve negotiated boundaries and if you screw up, you’ve got enough trust to get past it.
You don’t get to walk up and hug near strangers and wait for them to specifically say not to.
This. Honestly, if someone I didn’t know tried to cover my eyes in a “playful manner”, I’d probably freak out. Hell, I’ve gone full-blown flashback mode simply because a stranger grabbed my hand or wrist or even just leaned their leg into me.
Doing that waist “honey hug” from behind is not an action you really do to someone you are not currently in a relationship with and the responses of both of them do not look like people who are super happy to be receiving this unrequested touch.
Also, no, a no is not needed to establish non-consent. If someone hasn’t said yes, you’re now playing a gamble. And two friends with an established routine of being touchy have a much lower-stakes gamble than some stranger coming from behind.
And why this screams red flag to me is that it says to me that Joe’s model of consent is one where no means no, rather than yes means yes.
What I mean by that is that he goes Joe mode until someone gives him an unequivocal no. Rather than that he refrains from actions until he has received enthusiastic consent and that means he’s dangerous, because if someone has a freeze trauma response or trips over being “rude”, he’s the type to blindly bowl over their consent and what they want to do and not even know he’s hurt someone or triggered them.
Hell, when he jokes at the wrong moment with Joyce, sneaking up and making a vagina joke when she was feeling done with the world after her sexual assault, he reacts with defensiveness about him not touching her rather than recognizing that his words were wrong time and hit a sore trigger. Which means, he is in a mode where he views consent in terms of “but I didn’t continue fucking you after you said no” rather than “respecting one’s boundaries and treating intimacy as a matter of comfort and invitation”.
And to be fair to him, it’s really hard to be an 18 year old boy and not be at best in the “no means no” level of awareness. There’s a lot of social pressure against reading “(slur against gay men) (slur against gonads) feminist stuff” in high school and there’s a lot of bad modeling of how one expresses attraction and does seduction in movies and television.
Uh, exactly when has Joe put his unit in the face of anyone who didn’t want it there?
He figuratively put his unit in the face of the whole class about ten minutes ago.
Joyce never said she’s sorry for beating him up, did she? He makes a point of mentioning it now and then, at least. I don’t see much room for growth between the two until they go through that.
(no, not that kind of growth, Joe can manage that just fine)
Should have gone with Dorothy when you had the chance. But this definitely has a lot of potential to lead to some interesting conversations between them, especially if they have to do most of the work outside of class.
I’m less interested in the two of them than Dorothy and Walky. They kinda avoid talking about the/their future so this should be delightfully horrible.
Dorothy’s responsibilities: Achieving World Peace from the Oval Office and banning cancer.
Walky’s responsibilities: Providing wholesome photo-ops as the First Husband and guarding the Strategic Nachitos Reserve. Always wearing real pants in public.
What about the national strategic chocolate reserve? And before you say the US doesn’t have one, I say we have to have one, since the Swiss have one, and we can’t let those damned Swiss beat us at anything.
In the previous comic, the reader reaction was a weirdly serious overreaction to a basic dick joke, and the basic idea of the comic itself was that Joe’s a bit of an ass for doing the gender stereotypes bit.
In this comic, the audience is intended to laugh at a joke that’s basically “men, they be irrationally scared of commitment, amirite”.
I would not get your hopes up for this storyline having the serious-message face on, basically. Mood whiplash is back to comedy, recovering from the previous one. Character development switch is probably firmly in the ‘off’ position.
I’m not so sure that’s the joke. I think the joke is that Joe’s irrationally scared of… well, not just commitment, but rather the whole notion of seriousness or anything that might make him feel something or have to grapple with the impact of his actions on the world.
Everyone on the cast has their long-standing emotional scars and for Joe, his major baggage is his parent’s divorce. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with liking casual sex for its own sake, but Joe isn’t just a fan of the casual, but deeply afraid of the serious. He doesn’t want to think about futures and things that last more than a night (or maybe some recurring nights), because it brings up too much from his family background and his fears that everything will devolve into yelling if things get serious.
And given his regular disruptions of the class, he kind of is overdue from starting to tackle this issue and the impact its having on those around him. Make him the sort of man who isn’t so afraid of the class tackling serious issues or Danny bringing up his relationship struggles even if he is still the same ol’ sexually harassing dunderhead as before.
I think there is some real potential for Joe-growth being hinted at in the third panel. He’s noticed something there, in Joyce’s response, which he is reacting to in a thoughtful fashion; it’s a crack in the ‘bro’ facade.
If he grew up with his parents in a loveless marriage, he may not really believe love really exists, since he never saw it. Love is one of those noble high-minded ideals made up by poets who think it ought to exist. But in the real world it is just a lie and a pose people use to exploit each other.
So he determines not to lie about love just to get sex, but to be honest about lust to get sex. The part about doing that without being a creepy jerk he hasn’t gotten to yet.
That’s actually a really good analysis and yeah, I can totally see that as being the psychological landscape that Joe’s working with. Hell, part of why he hasn’t learned how to not be a creepy jerk about his attractions might be that his dad modeled the literal worst way of putting forth sexual attractions and so that’s the model he’s trying to modify and work with, but he doesn’t have all the tools to be a genuinely sweet and open sexual inviter instead of this kinda creepy predator who can’t handle anything more serious than a slight cough.
I’d suggest that part of it is also the thought of being married to Joyce especially considering how bad her behavior was on there previous date and I don’t mean the physical assault but more the making light of his parents divorce and her complete inability to see anything other then her extremely narrow personal point of view
I mean would anyone here actually want to marry Joyce as she is right now in the strip? Of course she turns out well but right now shes a major mess so of course Joe would be horrified but pretending to be married to, say Roz, well thats a completely different kettle of fish
Well I just thinks theres a massive over-reaction to Joe and his antics so some development or explanation as to why he does what he does might stem the comments…maybe
I think the joke is that Joe accuses Joyce of being dramatic, playing into the traditional stereotypical dichotomy of ‘dramatic women, serious men’ – but on the very next panel HE’s the one grossly overreacting to a simple class assignment.
There’s that too. It’s the sort of irony usually at play whenever some dudebro tries to argue that they’re being logical and the wimmins are just being ruled by their feels right before going on some big dramatic tantrum about their man-feels.
Panel 1: Joyce is in politely asking with sadness mode rather than over-reaction mode. If Joe has any sense, part of that panel 3 is a realization that this is the equivalent of a rattlesnake shaking its tail and will tread lightly. If not, well… ~we’re going off the rails on a crazy train~
Panel 4: Part 1: Leslie is an amazing teacher. I mean, we know that she started the class in just the worst mood. Upset and disappointed in her students, worried about Joyce, negative body language and even collapsing head in hands in frustration over Joe’s latest class disruption. But give her 5 seconds and here she is, adopting relaxed and upbeat body posture and confidence, showing no sign of being upset and projecting her cool friendly teacher persona. As a teacher, I know all the internal work that goes into being in teacher mode when you’re just not feeling it, and Leslie is an absolute master craftswoman about it. She still probably needs to work on overall classroom management, but in general, she’s really a top-notch educator in this universe.
Panel 4: Part 2: I may have an idea where Leslie is going with this and its kind of brilliant. Especially since she disguised the lesson until people paired up. With this, she can segue from the LGBT section to note how universal marriage can be and highlight bad assumptions like “who’s the man” and so forth that often go into creating oppressive dynamics, showing the similarities between the two women couples and the “het” couples. Similarly, she can do a lot of diving into just how marriage and marriage dynamics are constructed and encourage examining prejudices of how it should be run and demonstrating alternatives for the students for them to take home and be able to apply to their own lives.
There’s a lot of different directions she can go and it can even be used to deconstruct a lot of the gender essentialism Joe and Joyce especially have been putting out there in class. It’s a cleverly done setup and I’m really excited to see where she goes with this (but then I’m a sucker for most of the Leslie-focused Gender Studies strips).
And Part 3: Joe… shut up Joe. But more seriously, this is something he desperately needs. To actually confront the amount of baggage he has about marriage from his parent’s divorce and perhaps grow slightly more in his ability to handle lesson material and feelings without constantly pushing the “I quit” button.
Yes to all this, especially the Leslie points. So much love for Leslie right now.
(btw: thank you and thank you again for your posts here. we get awesome and generous analysis and wisdom from you on every strip, and it’s appreciated.)
Panel 2: I’m a little disappointed that Joyce can’t even agree not to punch him repeatedly in the face for the next 45 minutes.
Panel 3: How much of Joe’s reaction shot here is due to him registering the change in her (and the swear!) and how much just “Is she really going to start punching?”
On your panel 2 point: Yeah, Joyce is in really bad straits right now. She’s filled with anger and hurt and despair and it’s all bottled up waiting to explode. Now that explosion is probably going to occur with her family where “she’ll say something she can’t ever take back”, but she’s basically the equivalent of an unsecured bottle of nitroglycerin right now.
Happily though, she seems to be aware of her internal state much more these days, with the “oh, right, I’m not flashbacking, huh” earlier and with her Panel 3 here. And she’s definitely trying to defuse social situations in a way she wouldn’t have done before (preferring instead to go very much in the direction of strong emotional responses).
And I think part of that might also be that she knows that Joe is toxic for where she is right now and not something she needs where she’s at and so she’s not making any promises to not beat him up in case he starts jamming on her trigger buttons (which wouldn’t be his fault or excuse her violent responses, but it’s again, her recognizing that possibility welling up inside of her).
On Panel 3: I dunno. I can hope that there’s some awareness and realization, but it’s probably all: “wait, she didn’t actually say no to punching me repeatedly” and that’s largely because current Joe is a bit allergic to character growth.
That, but it’s not just her bad straits right now. She’s never actually acknowledged that the punching was wrong or ruled it out in similar circumstances.
I dunno, now that Joyce knows what the assignment is… and knows that Joe is going to be going out of his way to dodge out of it… who knows, Leslie might give her special dispensation to form a triad with the Keeners.
Also, Joyce, the “ass” in “jackass” is a donkey, not a butt. Though American English has conflated them, they’re different words with different origins, one from Old English assa, “donkey”, the other from ears, “butt”. The Bible uses it. It’s okay to say. It isn’t okay to covet your neighbor’s. It probably isn’t okay to covet your neighbor’s arse, either.
Some word filters in the internet are logically and rationally operating on the buttumption that these words should be written as Buttet and Buttessment.
Asteroid and Asterisk are fine, but Buttbuttination will be outright murdered!
I know what Joyce is going through. Changing from that phase of “goody two-shoes, never do wrong Christian kid” to “real word that makes you just kinda embrace its failures and cuss cause fuggit”.
Maybe not to her extent, by all means, but the situations are similar.
Thus setting up lots of future funny bits when the priest/minister/rabbi/judge/whatever says “If anyone knows of a reason why these two should not be joined, let them speak now or forever hold their peace.”
I wonder. At some point we might see Joyce enter into a new romance, and it’s not like there’s lots of dudes she can viably be shipped with. The most likely ones would be Joe and Walky, unless a new character is introduced to date her.
Dorothy’s straight, though she seemed receptive to the idea that she might eventually come to a different conclusion. Joyce I interpret as mildly biromantic or heteroflexible, but not bisexual.
Which, incidentally, puts Dorothy in the same boat as Joyce for not really having any other viable love interests if she and Walky were to end. There’s not really any other important and compatible dudes in the cast she could date.
Hence, important. Jacob really only matters as Sarah’s eyecandy and Ethan’s roommate.
And like, it’s not impossible to introduce a new character as a love interest; that’s kind of how things worked out in QC with Marten/Claire, but that doesn’t seem to be what Willis wants to do in this series.
And of course, there’s nothing going on with Dorothy and Walky right now that would motivate a break up.
He has added new characters though, from time to time. No reason one of the minor male characters or a new male character couldn’t get more screen time and become important enough for a romance with the lead.
I doubt Joyce is in a state to get involved in the near future anyway, which probably means a couple of years of real time to prepare any potential date.
Which Joe would need as much as any new character. He’d need a lot of character growth before he’s ready for any relationship that doesn’t start (and pretty much end) with sex.
True nuff. Becky practically appeared out of whole cloth (though with the benefit of already having a strong relationship with the lead), Dina only really became important this year as she got together with Becky, I get the feeling Carla’s going to start showing up more often with Amber, and unless I misread this tumblr post, Willis isn’t opposed to having Sayid pop up some more.
As for Joe himself, well, yeah. He’s been a perennial bit character since his introduction, so if he started showing up more often, if the Joe/Joyce stuff from IW! was followed up here, it would have the benefit of giving him some much needed development and have him work out the worst parts of his character.
I’m not sure I am enjoying watching Joyce getting smashed by social and emotional baseball bats constantly. One can only deal with so much before they break, and I believe Joyce may be beyond that point.
Lose all motivation to do anything period, spend her days scrolling through internet / watching tv / just lying on a bed looking at the ceiling, feeling progressively worse the more alarmed her friends grow…
But it’s something that can often end up happening around that age group. Which is probably why Sarah said “I’ll be so sad when this world breaks you” in the first place.
Maybe? That’s what happened to his Walkyverse counterpart but this Joe actively buries anything remotely emotional.
It’s hard to ascribe character motivations to a dude with barely any character. I’m attached to the “Mary is hiding wrist scars” theory, but it’s really only based on thin evidence.
As much as it’s the antithesis of ‘fun’ for Joyce, I’m still enjoying seeing her paradigm shift from it’s extremely limited perspective, to a much broader, all-inclusive one; growing pains are still most certainly painful, but it’s also growth, and watching a mind open up and expand is a beautiful thing. 😀
Joe: “I immediately sue for divorce on the basis of domestic violence. Her dating history comes to light: Two of the three men she dated or expressed interest in were violently beaten by herself and/or others on her behalf, and the third was a supremely unthreatening gay man. Based on that, I gain full custody of our children and her visitation of them is court-ordered to be supervised by an armed police officer.”
Sandra: “Hey! That scumbag Ryan had it coming!”
Joe: “I DON’T disagree at all, but do you think it would be a good idea to repeat that in a courtroom, Person of African Descent?”
Sandra: “…nope.”
Leslie: “Joe, if you haven’t yet learned that our culture doesn’t give a shit about men’s legal or civil rights, and only champions the causes of women, I really don’t think I can pass you in this class.”
Loading ...
HEY MISS TEACHER I WANNA TRADE
wait is this how sitcom couples were paired up, ’cause I don’t see how they happen otherwise
Why am I now seeing a segue into the Joe and Joyce remake of “The Honeymooners”?
And who are Fred and Ethel?
So who will be saying “POW right in the kisser!” then?
Clearly Joyce.
It was an empty threat in the Honeymooners, so probably not Joyce since she’s quite willing to fulfill it
Also, Fred and Ethel are the couple down the street and the next show over.
Joyce is probably going to have to threaten to send Joe to the moon, since Joe knows that’s scientifically impossible.
It’s entirely scientifically possible to send someone to the moon. First you have to build a Saturn V or equivalent rocket…
You can get away with a much smaller rocket than a Saturn V if you intend to leave them there. You save the weight of all the fuel, engines and parachutes that’d be needed for the return trip. In turn this saves you the weight of the fuel that would be required to lift all that stuff from Earth, into orbit, then to the moon. 🙂
If you don’t actually care if they reach the moon alive it can get even cheaper. But not actually cheap.
It could be if we built a magnetic cannon accelerator. I mean, sure, there’s an initial cost while we build the infrastructure, but the ongoing costs are super low.
According to Verne, all you need is a Columbiad space cannon. Orlando Furioso got there in a chariot (it was Elijah’s though, so that might prove too difficult to get hold of).
To paraphrase HG Wells, Jules Verne can go screw.
An Aperature Science Portal gun is apparently also an effective means of transport…
But we’re talking cost, and one of those is more valuable than the combined organs and incomes of everyone in [subject hometown here].
Or just be Kid from Chrono Cross
“I’ll kick yer arse so hard you’ll kiss the moons!”
Amber.
“NOW KISS!! Right in the… pow-er?”
Again. ENERGON IS KINKY.
Fred and Ethel were from “I love Lucy.” Ed and Trixie were the neighbors in “The Honeymooners.”
Aggh!
Now I must go commit ritual suicide in atonement.
(What is the traditional method of suicide in DoA? Surprise hugging Sarah?)
Saying something mean about Dina.
I think its surprise hugging Ruth. Seems like a fast way to die to me.
No, no. She’s not that merciful; they’d live.
(Makes up a begging sign “Lost my femurs. Will make lame webcomic jokes for food.”)
No market for that. Too many willing to provide it for free.
Lesbian liver failure, I think
A Lesbian Suicide Pact, duh.
(puts on black head cover)
Captain Button, It is the sentence of this court that you shall be taken to a place to be determined by this court and there you shall attack a female volunteer whilst calling her weak for not fighting back in the full view of Amazigirl.
And may god have mercy upon your soul.
Chasing after a drunk-driving Danny in your car
death by lion pit
(which is preferable to death by pregnant lady.)
http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=2013
Fred and Ethel the neighbors were on another show. Norton and … Trixie, I think? And of course it’d be Walky and Dot, the loons next door who somehow manage to be the normal-ish ones.
Norton was the last name. He was Ed. She was Trixie, though, yes.
(And thus when Edward Norton became famous, I tended to be very, very confused.)
With whom do you want to trade? Joyce or Joe?
Where Joe sleeps around..
It’s too late for that now. Matrimony has come, and he’s more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.
Seriously, though, if he doesn’t manage at least one ‘abused husband’ crack in the next few strips I’m going to be vaguely disappointed.
It’s not a punchline, and yet I am laughing. I am laughing so, so hard.
If that’s not a punchline I don’t know what is.
Speaking of punches, Joyce never actually hit Joe… it was all Mike. Weird how he always pins it on her xD
Joyce pinned it on herself, too. ‘Our fists’.
Well when he walked out cuz he was tired of getting punched, she said “Our fists were instruments of the Lord.” OUR. So I’m assuming she joined in after she caught him looking down the waitress’s shirt. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/olives/
Also, “YOU punched me in the face.”
proxy assault
I’m pretty sure she joined in as well for the second round. Did an archive binge recently.
She did. I clicked the “Joyce pinned it on herself, too.” link above, then went back to the beginning of that story arc and read the whole thing again. She completely hit him (along with Mike), owned it, felt conflicted, and tried to end the night on a good note out of her sense of “duty” to the date.
I’m actually glad I went back to re-read. I like Joe even more than I remembered. Kid’s dealing with a lot and coping terribly, just like a lot of other cast members, but he keeps getting pissed on by others because of the sexualized nature of his coping.
Honestly that scene shows Joe pretty much at his best, mostly because Joyce and Mike are so horrible in it he looks good by comparison.
Outside of that scene he doesn’t come off so well. The RSS feed of his To do list, neatly ranked by numbered attractiveness is skeevy as hell, especially as he adds his best friends ex to it as soon as they break up. It’s played for laughs, like much of Joe’s behavior, but … ick.
The “alcohol helps threesomes” bit is more directly worse those, showing that he’s perfectly happy with booze convincing girls to do things they wouldn’t otherwise.
I don’t care that he gets laid a lot. I do care about how he goes about it and about his attitude towards women.
This on both accounts. I also agree that there were parts of that scene that show Joe at his best, largely that we see some of his mask break down early on in the date simply because Joyce keeps him off guard and off-message during those moments. So we get to see him show some amount of consternation when he sees how Joyce has prettied up regarding his presentation. We see him reveal his still fresh wounds about his parents’ divorce and how that still haunts him and makes him shy away from feels. And yes, we see him as victim to Mike’s barrage and Joyce’s belief that naughty words and showing signs of lust > actual violence and that’s monumentally fucked up and awful*.
And also agree on him coming off pretty awful surrounding that scene with his “I’ll fix Joyce with my dick”, “alcohol facilitates threesomes”, rss feed of his numbered list, and continuing and hit on and letch at people giving all the signs that they aren’t interested.
I dunno, conversations with others earlier this week has rekindled my hope that we’ll see a less… just generally awful Joe if he can just push through this need to project this kind of creepy His Dad Lite toxic PUA thing he’s got going on and actually become someone who isn’t scared of showing vulnerability and sweetness.
Honestly, respectful, thoughtful lover guy gets you a lot better reputation in sex positive circles than that creeper who can’t stop talking about his dick for 5 seconds.
*Though I would argue we also see signs in that scene of how he potentially opens up “seductions” of women and it raises some red flags for me personally, but YMMV.
For all of his flaws, Joe seems to understand that no means no. I don’t remember when exactly, but there was a conversation between him and Sarah where she clearly told him she wasn’t interested and he immediately backed off.
Of course, this being Sarah, it might have helped that her version of “not interested” was a death threat. 😛
He also made it absolutely clear to Sarah that he had zero interest in non-consensual sex here. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/penis/
You can blame the person for assault that hired someone to assault you…
Technically wasn’t hired. Mike was asked to escort, he agreed because there was potential for face punching. Joe tried to pay him to NOT face punch. Mike stuck with his morals about face punching.
That’s it.
I am now reading all of Joe’s lines in Darth Vader’s voice.
“You do not realize the true POWER of the Peen Side!”
I find your lack of breasts disturbing.
“Search your hormones; you know it to be true.”
+1 Internet
How about, “I am not your father.”?
How about “I am not your child’s father!”?
“Call me ‘Daddy’.” In Darth Vader’s voice.
“I AM your father. Maybe. We’re talking about your mother here. Kind of a crapshoot who your dad was.”
So does that mean in the Chinese translation of this comic, Joe’s screaming “DO NOT WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNT”?
If that makes Joyce the Luke figure, then what I want to see is the scene where they realize they have a common enemy and bring the Force and the Dark Side to work together.
*both facing the front of the room*
Jo-Jo: This is not the exercise you meant to assign.
Leslie: This is not the exercise I meant to assign.
Jo-Jo: In fact, you should cancel class entirely.
Leslie: In fact, I should cancel class entirely.
But that is a Vulcan mind-meld, which is Star Trek, not Star Wars! Don’t cross the streams!
[/geekrage]
Vulcan mind-meld requires physical contact, doesn’t it? That’s not in the cards for these two! Besides, they’re not sharing—they’re just directing two streams of power at the same target for the same reason. I’m not an expert on Star Trek through the various series, but I know the original Star Trek well g, and this is not what Vulcan mind-meld looked like.
There’s one rather dodgy case in “A Taste of Armageddon” where he apparently does… something through a wall, to get a guard to come into the room to investigate.
Jo-Jo? Is that the name for the Joe/Joyce ship?
Somebody get Yotomoe to draw Joyce as Jotaro and Joe as Star Platinum.
Yeah—I saw it below somewhere.
And Joyce starts down that dark road of slandering innocent farm animals.
I’ve never actually encountered a donkey on a farm. Horse ranch, canyon tour, parade, sure, but ‘farm animals’ tends to make me think of animals that produce consumables like milk and eggs.
Suddenly Joe’s wallet feels $20 lighter.
That’s funny, Mike’s wallet feels 5¢ lighter.
Five cents and a condom.
Shortpacked Mike would use a condom, but DOA Mike might not.
Kaaaaaaahn!
JOOOOOOOOOOOOYCE!
Dedeeeeeeeeeee
Ha-ha-ha! Ha-ha-ha! Ha-ha-ha-haha!
Fodue le fromaaaaaaaage!
Gary?
Hehe. That caught me, thought it was Joyce for a moment.
Same, it makes it so much funnier.
He should also be tearing his shirt for no real reason.
Or tearing it because “SEXO LOCO.”
I shudder to think of where this exercise is going
(also face)
I’m just excited for the eventual fight between Dorothy and Walky. We know that they’re not planning to get hitched, which means they’ve got some unresolved issues ready to strike.
I’m guessing it’s going to be some kind of thing about marriage equality, similar to that exercise where they divide the classroom up randomly into “first world country” (only a few people) and “third world country” (most of the people) and give you uneven amounts of like, M&Ms or whatever based on which part you’re in.
Like that, only less stupid.
That or about gendered expectations in relationships or maybe even about learning to model a relationship surrounding what you want rather than what is just done. There’s a lot in this basic setup that can be mined and given Leslie’s background in comic of how she leads her class, I think this is going to turn out really cool (but again, I’m a giant sucker for the Leslie is teaching type strips).
PALPATINE: it seems, in your anger, you…married her
Anger leads to fear, fear leads to hate, and hate leads… to marriage!
Oh, wise Yoda, you were so right!
This is gonna lead to some interesting interaction between these two. I’m looking forward to seeing how this works out.
Special edition of this strip?
The special edition features an extra “no”, we see the characters actually blink, and Leslie hides behind even more desks.
“Oh quiet, Joe, you’ll live.”
That’s what he’s afraid of.
Now that Joyce is having all kinds of realizations about the world, she can review her past with Joe and see that she was much more the problem than he ever was.
Joyce has some huge issues to work out in this and I’m hoping she figures out how terrible she was to him.
But I’m also hoping Joe faces his relationship issues here too. He really needs to.
Right?
Joe: Starts off intending to have some consensual sex with Joyce. Backs off when she proves uninterested. Tries to be polite and friendly afterwards until it becomes clear that she basically hates him. Still occasionally makes inappropriate jokes, but mostly leaves her alone.
Joyce: Starts off their relationship by hiring a man to punch him. Punches him herself at one point. Constantly expresses her disapproval for his personal sex life. Insults him almost every time she sees him.
I mean, I’m not excusing Joe completely. Both of them have things they need to work on, and I actually like both of them as characters. But Joyce really can’t blame all their problems on Joe just because he’s a bit of an ass sometimes.
I’m starting to think everything was due to Mike manipulating them, basically anytime something bad happens, and Mike is involved, I just assume Mike had something to do with it. Dudes evil.
Mike is not evil; Mike is an utter bastard of a Bodhisattva. His being a complete asshole has always ended with his targets coming to important realizations and undergoing significant personal growth.
Ha, no.
He slutshamed Dorothy by invading her gender studies and making her out to be so desperate as to make out with someone like Walky, tried to humiliate her further when she tried to take a pair of Danny’s shoes, got into Walky’s bed to take photos of the two of them laying together, harassed Joyce by standing outside her door drawing dicks on her whiteboard, and told Amber she was doomed to become an abusive monster because she sought partners who weren’t like her father.
This. And he beat up on Ethan about his sexuality vis a vis Chik fil’A
Actually, here’s a question. Has anyone ended up in a better, more mature place because of a successful Mike attack?
Like, Ethan after Mike’s “help” went running screaming back in the closet with Joyce. Amber has responded to Mike’s “you’re going to be an abuser” by trying to enforce stricter mental barriers between her alters and making a bad mental situation worse. Joyce had a breakdown in the middle of the common area at the end of the Whiteboard Dingdong Saga.
Like, pretty much the only person who has ended up in better places after a Mike Encounter has been Dorothy and it’s always been in spite of Mike and after Mike failed in his awfulness. He wanted to break Dorothy and Walky up, it brought them closer together. He wanted to make the room an unsafe space for them, she’s been getting more comfortable hanging around him. He wanted to stir up drama with Danny, she repairs that friendship and has been there for him on things like his bi discovery.
So really, the only real way to not have your life made worse by a Mike Encounter is to either let him beat someone up for you so he more or less leaves you alone or to constantly be defeating his repeated attempts to snipe at you.
We need Mike to make one of those “I only hurt you because I love you and want to teach you to be strong” speeches.
[Now I am having In Conquest Born flashbacks. Damn you, Willis (and Cerberus)!]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM4RtUo5s0g
Mike works in mysterious ways. Ethan’s arguably in a better place now than he was at the start of the strip, isn’t he?
Ethan’s spent most of his panel time resenting his sexualtiy and burying it, on Mike’s (faux?) encouragement.
Nobody’s lives are improved by Mike. He’s not Mr. Miyagi. He’s not teaching everyone secret ways to better themselves. He’s just an abusive asshole.
This is an immature version of Mike who makes mistakes. But he performs a genuine service in forcing people to confront their internal contradictions. And he gets to do it while being a glorious pain in the ass.
So what you’re saying is that he’s a gross shithead violating the agency of people around him in really vile ways in an attempt to force them to act in a way he sees fit.
Gotcha.
But right now, Ethan’s back where he was at the beginning of the strip. Recently out, conflicted about it, sad that he can’t do more to help Amber. Really, the only things that are putting him in a “better” more self-accepting space are Danny making him feel less alone with this discovering queerness thing and Joyce reprising the role Amber apparently had pre-college of quietly supporting and encouraging him (which Amber may have reprised eventually this semester and which had a better chance of happening when Mike wasn’t making “reunion happy fun times” a bitter reprisal of all their most painful moments (like bringing up prom a bunch of times)).
And Amber… yeah, Amber’s not in a better place than the beginning of the comic and a lot of that is her direct response to Mike playing on her fears making her more invested in forcing more compartmentalization and specialization among her alters which is leading to worse behavior among her alters, more stress, and more consideration of them as separate individuals.
And again, Dorothy is only in a better place because she’s successfully fought him off whenever he’s gone after her. Saying Mike is responsible for that is like saying that the emotional strength someone fighting off their stalker displays is because of the stalker.
So yeah, not sure even that argument works.
That’s Walkyverse Mike. That does not seem to be this Mike. Remember, while the characters share a lot of the same traits, they are not the same characters, and they do have one or two key differences.
The big one for Mike seems to be that he really is just a jerk, instead of having alien super power jerkedness that forces other people to improve themselves.
It’s the same guy, but less skilled. The chik fil a speech is 100% about trying to help Ethan. He failed, and was shocked at this.
Walyverse Mike was also a jerk for funsies tho, not just to be a mentor.
I’m convinced he’s chaotic neutral.
Mike is neutral evil AKA the asshole alignment. He doesn’t have principles he just does whatever will suit his whims and needs regardless of its impact on others. He has no vested interest in either supporting or disrupting order it all depends on what will allow him to cause the most amount of grief.
So Mike is a Phantom Menace?
Based on what we’ve seen of him so far, Mike has definitely given the impression of someone who’s spiteful enough to grab any oppurtunity to be a pain in the ass to everyone in whichever way he can. While I am a fan of his sarcasm and cynical demeanor, he does strike me as the living personification of a migraine.
That is a wonderful metaphor. He’s painful, pointless, and if you’ve never had a Mike you can’t fully understand how nasty he is.
Heh. Okay, post of the year, right there.
Considering the other stuff that happened to her since then, I’d be surprised if “my first date didn’t turn out to be Mr. Right” even registers as a problem on her radar anymore.
It may not be a problem for HER (though her attitude towards him continues to be abusive). Whatever she has gone through doesn’t alter the fact that she assaulted him.
Um, I going to say her attitude towards him continues to be hostile. Where do you see continuing abuse?
Abusive, as in extremely offensive or insulting. Hostility and abusive are two words in this instance that can be used interchangeably.
Okay, so now we know that Joyce’s personality hasn’t actually changed, she’s making a conscious effort to use “real” cuss words now.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
It’s a Joyce thing.
“Hasn’t actually changed”? Really?
Her operating system is the same, only the data files and user preference checkboxes are different.
Very good 🙂
That’s because to change OS you have to shut down and restart the person, and I can’t remember any near-death experiences thus far in DoA.
That doesn’t mean Joyce didn’t shut down for awhile.
Well, she was already having nightmare issues, and Toedad probably added to that. Maybe she hasn’t slept in a week? It would explain… everything.
I could see that as being a potential thing. Experiences like that tend to be nightmare fuel and we already know she’s been having nightmares about Ryan.
Well, not as much as we thought it did.
Joyce: Joe, I am your wife!
JOE: NOOOOOOOOOO!
Obi Dan never told you what happened to your wife.
When I said your wife was heterosexual it was the truth, from a certain point of view.
He told me enough he told me you killed her!
And then I mentioned hot dudes, and he got really quite and awkward!
Joe: Dan! Why didn’t you tell me? You told me that Anti-Joyce betrayed and murdered my wife.
Dan: Your wife… was seduced by the Dark Side of the Assignment. She ceased to be the good Joyce and “became” Anti-Joyce. When that happened, the good woman who was your wife was destroyed. So, what I told you was true… from a certain point of view.
Joyce: Does this mean I can hankypanky without guilt?
Duh. You’re Evangelical, not Catholic.
Joeyce 4evr
HOW CAN YOU DENY THEIR CHARISMA
Re: alt-text.
I actually was picturing Joe protectively covering his face.
Hey, now, Joe, you promised.
She swore, now fork over the twenty.
and she thereby responds as she did to sarah, before promptly spending it all on tacos which she does not separate!
YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE THE FIRST TO MAKE THAT JOKE, BUT IT WAS I, [s]DIO[/s] SPENCER.
well now i just feel silly
This isn’t the BB Code you are looking for.
I liked it.
So…I guess the answer was no, he cannot?
SHE SAID THE A WORD OH SNAP
Also, potential development for Joe to confront his fear of long-term relationships and his parents’ divorce. I hope SOMETHING happens here, and not just Joe refusing to participate. Or maybe his refusal to participate will spurn some debate about his own issues.
Also, as much as I wouldn’t want anyone to be punched in the face, if Joe’s comments warrant it, I won’t feel sorry for him.
Spur, or spurn?
Whichever one means “start”.
That’s “spur” then, the meaning coming from spurring a horse to get it to start moving. Spurn means… [pulls up Google so I don’t have to define it myself “reject with disdain or contempt.” So kind of the opposite, actually.
Her swear vocabulary is no longer limited to “damn” and “hell”!
She’ll soon swear like an old sailor.
http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
hth, Joe.
my thoughts exactly XD
Question: Are all the “couples” in this assignment heteronormative?
Roz is married to JenAnaSidistic.
Oh My!
Roz is coupled up with Jen/Sue. So no.
And I doubt she’s the only woman w/ woman pairing given the depictions of background characters in the past and how Gender Studies classes tend to skew.
Roz is with a girl. And Joyce could have been with Dorothy (they could have had it all).
Just like Bogey and Bacall?
But who’s the Bogey in Doyce?
This is a perpetual Late Late Show.
I miss Craig Ferguson, who I recently found out was in a band with Peter Capaldi.
I know! Stephen Colbert does some goofy dances, but he’s got nuffin on CreggyFerg.
(rolling in the deeeeeeeeeeeep)
Roz/Jen Aside.
I knew even as I was typing that that someone would have beaten me to it.
Did Jen wanted to be paired up with Roz or did Willis arrange the marriage?
And more generally, I think the demographics of the class guarantee that there’s going to be a bunch of lesbian couples.
I think Sue and Roz were paired up.
Or was it Jenm
They were allowed to pick partners in the last page. Roz partnered with a girl of unknown name (either Jen or Sue, depending on whether you ask Roz or SueJen). I’m not sure if we know who else is in the class?
And I should have known that there would be 20 other people answering the question at once. That’s what I get for jumping on at peak time, I’d say. 😛
predictions:
walky and dorothy are gonna…wade through some stuff
roz is gonna cheat loads and whats-her-face is gonna be not cool with it
I think Roz is more likely to try and negotiate for an open marriage sort of thing. She likes sex, but she’s straightforward and up front about things in general. The sneakiness of ‘cheating’ isn’t her style, IMO.
Does that mean that Roz is poly?
Not necessarily? I just think Roz is likely to be up front about the fact that she’s probably not interested in monogamy.
The way things are now non-monogamous is poly. There are a lot of poly people practicing serial monogamy instead of true poly because of monogamiheteronormativity.
Beg to differ. There are open marriages where there is a significant relationship with a partner and potentially many non-serious ones vs. poly which allows for multiple serious relationships. A significant difference in use of the terms.
Also, though I’m not sure it was meant, most serial monogamy has nothing to do with poly, just failed relationships.
I could be wrong, but I’m not sure that serial monogamy would be correlated with being poly at all. Many people who’d rather be in a polygamous relationshop might be in a monogamous one due to pressure from social norms, but I don’t see that necessarily pushing them to leave and go to another monogamous relationship.
Walkyverse!Roz had a moment where she talked about how she wanted a serious relationship she felt she never got, but that Roz was also in her mid to late twenties and went through some stuff as well.
i have a strong feeling that Roz is going to win this game. first she will negotiate to the next group over to create a 4-way marriage for economic adaptability and shared childcare resources. soon she will accumulate at least half of the class into some communal economic and childcare co-operative group marriage. then she will declare war on the mono-marriages left in the room. all shall love Roz and despair!
Then she goes on to destroy the Lunar Authority.
I find it alarming that you feel it’s possible for only one of these teams to win at marriage.
There can be only one queen of darkness. Choose Roz or Joyce and despair.
What makes you think that Roz is going to cheat? Or that the activity is even going to be one where cheating is possible?
I think it’s a reference to Walkyverse!Roz.
Roz never cheated there.
She did way worse shit, but she never cheated.
Oh… Damn. I misunderstood. I see what you meant now.
I don’t think Roz is gonna cheat. If she’s as sexually progressive as she seems to be, I’m sure she’d try to work out an open relationship with her partner.
whoa.
um…i just meant that roz was gonna continue doing her thing and that it would in some way hilariously matter either to her partner or to the project (since it obviously in no way should), and she’d be stuck in some kind of ‘counseling’ situation. i wasn’t implying that roz would be an inconsiderate lover who would openly cheat in real relationships, just that she probably wouldn’t take this project very seriously
I dunno, she might take it seriously given her passion about queer rights, freedom to define relationships, and so forth. Honestly, given her… passion, poor Jen/Sue/Anna might end up being bowled over a little depending on the structure of this assignment.
Given how much thought she put into the roommate agreement I think that is very likely. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/05-media-rumble/dumb/
Ok, you are right, that is more likely. I was trying to come up with a comical direction for this to go in, but roz drafting a prenup for a confused sue works brilliantly
(Reads alt text)
Does that mean there will be a fan phantom edit later on that removes Joe’s cry?
Joe punched first!
Wait dang should I have said “Becky shot first” instead, or would that have been too soon?
There is no ‘too soon,’ only ‘funny’ and ‘hilarious.’
Now I’m reminded that I heard that there were fan edits to Becky’s double middle finger gesture. And these edits were something other than things like giving Becky extra mechanical arms in order to achieve more than two middle fingers. Sometimes I have trouble understanding people.
Sadly, they were much dumber.
So much for not getting dramatic..
O, theres some good dialogue here.
Joe going to get some real ( divorce ) pain out of this. i smell a breakthrough.
45 minutes? Couldn’t even make it 45 seconds.
Hey! No spoiling the ending, Leslie!
Ah, but you’d be amazed what you can live through.
Oh hey, this has me wondering, when was the first time you called someone a “jackass”, Willis? Was it a particularly memorable moment or was it just another day?
poor joe
Carry your books from school/Playing make believe you’re married to me/You were Fifth Grade, I was six/When we came to be…
Wouldn’t it be nice?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2u9lLAq8c <- One of my nursery rhymes. Sorta.
“Still I reminisce about the girl I miss, And the love I left behind…”
Oh my God, Katherine…………..
Joyce is quiet because she’s suddenly caught up in a daydream about what would have happened if she’d partnered with Dorothy.
Joyce: “I could have been in lesbians with Dorothy right now. This is all Walky’s fault.”
I mean it is. Screw you Walky.
ObPedantry: ‘jackass’ means a male donkey. Saying ‘jackbutt’ instead makes no sense.
Censorship, bowdlerization in particular, quite often makes no sense.
I still don’t know why it’s so bad to meet a stranger in the Alps.
Now I want to see someone get called a jenny-ass.
Calling someone a jenny-ass was actually not uncommon in, say, Regency England – it wasn’t considered swearing, but a way of saying someone (identified as female) was acting silly. It could be an insult, but it was often used somewhat endearingly by the standards of the day.
Back in the 1940s and 1950s, apparently “jackass” wasn’t even considered swearing, at least not in the US. I listen to a lot of American old time radio shows from that era (drama, comedy, detective shows and so on.) They were extremely strict about swearing then, no damns or hell even. Hell, you couldn’t even say “belly” apparently–on one sitcom, one of the main characters would sing a silly song where the obvious rhyme would be “belly”, but he’d change it to “tummy”. Yet I’ve heard the word “jackass” used on at least a couple shows.
Joyce has one time said cheese bags instead of d bags, and butt opening instead of butt hole because the latter options reminded her too much of a swear. Her filter is not going to take into account the sort of distinction your making. (Though the filter is also going away now)
Now I kinda wish Joyce and Walky had switched partners.
…dang. That would be incredibly awkward to have manly man Joe and One Shoe Walkerton be ‘married’ to each other. And now we will never see it…
Damn you, Willis!
Joyce has punched Joe in the face. Joe has been an ‘in your face with my unit’ exhibitionist’. Which is worse? Who is rudest?
What would have happened if it had been Joe who punched Joyce in the face and Joyce who flashed her goodies? Two guesses, and the first doesn’t count.
This should be an interesting class.
Judging by the comments of the past, it’d just be a vice versa reaction. It seems like the consensus is that punching is bad, and constantly being sexually assertive to every woman with a vagina is okay, if a bit irritating.
Putting it that way, I can see how people side with Joe more than Joyce, but Joe has other flaws that I can’t look past, since some of them used to be my flaws too.
Uh, exactly when has Joe put his unit in the face of anyone who didn’t want it there?
Not his “unit”, but he’s definitely done non-consensual touch before:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/no/
That does not even vaguely resemble what Uniqueantique is accusing Joe of, which I’m pretty sure is not a thing that has ever happened in this universe.
Well, he does continue to make jokes at and go heavy predator mode on women who have very “not interested” body language or who have communicated their noes extremely… well, sometimes straight up violently as in the case with Joyce.
But if you’re talking about literally trying to shove his literal dick in someone’s literal face. No. He’s not an overt rapist like Ryan.
I think there’s been a little bit of a bait and switch here… I can’t fairly read Uniqueantique’s comment as being intended to be literal.
Uniqueantique, and I’m not sure why I have to quote this because it’s right up there at the beginning of this comment thread, is talking about Joe being “an ‘in your face with my unit’ exhibitionist” and “flashing goodies”. I infer from the common English meanings of those words that they’re talking about Joe literally exposing his literal penis to people who literally don’t want to see it. That has nothing to do with Joe touching people’s shoulders without obtaining prior consent, and, again, I’m pretty sure it isn’t a thing that’s happened at any point in this comic.
It is true that Joe (and Roz) starred in an Internet porno, in which his unit was at least partially visible (and partially in Roz), but no one was forced to watch that who didn’t want to.
(Walky has exposed his unit to people who didn’t want to see it…)
He’s not a secret rapist either, so I don’t understand why you put that “overt” there. There’s a big difference between Ryan and a guy who touches your shoulder without asking first.
Yes. Yes. There is. 100% agree. Honestly, he’s not in comic been shown to be a rapist.
…so, where I have my hesitation in stating fully 100% that this character isn’t a rapist is in his “alcohol facilitates threesomes” and “fix her with my penis” malarky. Yes, it’s 99% probable he has only had consensual sex, but those are such high-risk with other people’s consent views and actions that I have my red flag concerns that he has or is going to cross someone’s consent in a bad way largely because he’s not taking the proper precautions.
But then, I’m way more prickly on issues of consent than most people due to my background and major focus of my activism.
I agree. A touch is not necessarily non-consensual unless one party specifically says so. If I come up behind my lady friend and reach around from behind to cover her eyes in a playful manner — well yes, I have touched her … and gasp!! without asking her permission first. But there is a big effin’ difference between something like this and reaching out and fondling the twins … and the sooner we learn to realize the degree of difference, the better off for all concerned.
That touch – arm around Sierra’s waist, pulling her into him – isn’t “fondling the twins, but it’s pretty intimate nonetheless. And I don’t recall that Joe knows Sierra more than very casually.
It’s one thing when it’s someone you know well enough to know they usually welcome it. Even informally you’ve negotiated boundaries and if you screw up, you’ve got enough trust to get past it.
You don’t get to walk up and hug near strangers and wait for them to specifically say not to.
This. Honestly, if someone I didn’t know tried to cover my eyes in a “playful manner”, I’d probably freak out. Hell, I’ve gone full-blown flashback mode simply because a stranger grabbed my hand or wrist or even just leaned their leg into me.
Doing that waist “honey hug” from behind is not an action you really do to someone you are not currently in a relationship with and the responses of both of them do not look like people who are super happy to be receiving this unrequested touch.
Also, no, a no is not needed to establish non-consent. If someone hasn’t said yes, you’re now playing a gamble. And two friends with an established routine of being touchy have a much lower-stakes gamble than some stranger coming from behind.
And why this screams red flag to me is that it says to me that Joe’s model of consent is one where no means no, rather than yes means yes.
What I mean by that is that he goes Joe mode until someone gives him an unequivocal no. Rather than that he refrains from actions until he has received enthusiastic consent and that means he’s dangerous, because if someone has a freeze trauma response or trips over being “rude”, he’s the type to blindly bowl over their consent and what they want to do and not even know he’s hurt someone or triggered them.
Hell, when he jokes at the wrong moment with Joyce, sneaking up and making a vagina joke when she was feeling done with the world after her sexual assault, he reacts with defensiveness about him not touching her rather than recognizing that his words were wrong time and hit a sore trigger. Which means, he is in a mode where he views consent in terms of “but I didn’t continue fucking you after you said no” rather than “respecting one’s boundaries and treating intimacy as a matter of comfort and invitation”.
And to be fair to him, it’s really hard to be an 18 year old boy and not be at best in the “no means no” level of awareness. There’s a lot of social pressure against reading “(slur against gay men) (slur against gonads) feminist stuff” in high school and there’s a lot of bad modeling of how one expresses attraction and does seduction in movies and television.
I’m going to go ahead and say you would not actually do that UNLESS IT WAS REALLY FUCKING CLEAR TO THE BOTH OF YOU that it was an okay thing to do.
Uh, exactly when has Joe put his unit in the face of anyone who didn’t want it there?
He figuratively put his unit in the face of the whole class about ten minutes ago.
The point that he is rude stands.
Joyce never said she’s sorry for beating him up, did she? He makes a point of mentioning it now and then, at least. I don’t see much room for growth between the two until they go through that.
(no, not that kind of growth, Joe can manage that just fine)
False Equivalence
Joyce was worse for the punching. No denying it.
Joyce has changed and grown since then. Joe is the same.
Yeah, she’s a lot better at punching now.
YESSSSSSSS
Oh this is gonna be good. I need to make popcorn tomorrow right before the comic comes out.
I love this new Joyce
Should have gone with Dorothy when you had the chance. But this definitely has a lot of potential to lead to some interesting conversations between them, especially if they have to do most of the work outside of class.
I now ship Joe and Joyce.
The weirder the shipping is the more I support it, for insistence my favorite ship is JoyceXThat bacterium on her desk.
She can’t date a bacteria. Meeting its family would force her to confront WAY more evidence of evolution than she can handle right now.
Also DorothyXOne of her White Blood Cells.
Wait I’m sorry that was racist, the correct term of course is Leukocytes
Be careful watch you or the Red Blood Cells may go on a strike…sorry,meant to say Erythrocytes.
*what you say
You have no chance to survive make your time.
The thing about her dating the bacterium is that relationship would become poly rather quickly.
But happily there’d be less pressure on her for sexy times given that bacteria are very much asexual.
Note that for bacteria, sex and reproduction are entirely different things.
Very much so, but I couldn’t resist the joke.
I have shipped them since their date.
Is that the sound of an anguished ‘noooo’ from getting punched? I hope that’s the sound of an anguished ‘no’ from getting punched.
Shoryuken!
Finish him!
Matrimonality!
I’m less interested in the two of them than Dorothy and Walky. They kinda avoid talking about the/their future so this should be delightfully horrible.
Dorothy’s responsibilities: Achieving World Peace from the Oval Office and banning cancer.
Walky’s responsibilities: Providing wholesome photo-ops as the First Husband and guarding the Strategic Nachitos Reserve. Always wearing real pants in public.
What about the national strategic chocolate reserve? And before you say the US doesn’t have one, I say we have to have one, since the Swiss have one, and we can’t let those damned Swiss beat us at anything.
Canada has a Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve. No, really.
While Norway has a Global Seed Vault. In case of an apocalypse all we need to do is become farmers.
While I loves the drama very much (I do like seeing the suffering) I’m seeing (hoping) the potential for personal growth for both parties here
So, for once, I’m hoping the drama takes a back seat to some growing up (of course if the growing up could be caused by drama…)
In the previous comic, the reader reaction was a weirdly serious overreaction to a basic dick joke, and the basic idea of the comic itself was that Joe’s a bit of an ass for doing the gender stereotypes bit.
In this comic, the audience is intended to laugh at a joke that’s basically “men, they be irrationally scared of commitment, amirite”.
I would not get your hopes up for this storyline having the serious-message face on, basically. Mood whiplash is back to comedy, recovering from the previous one. Character development switch is probably firmly in the ‘off’ position.
I’m not so sure that’s the joke. I think the joke is that Joe’s irrationally scared of… well, not just commitment, but rather the whole notion of seriousness or anything that might make him feel something or have to grapple with the impact of his actions on the world.
Everyone on the cast has their long-standing emotional scars and for Joe, his major baggage is his parent’s divorce. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with liking casual sex for its own sake, but Joe isn’t just a fan of the casual, but deeply afraid of the serious. He doesn’t want to think about futures and things that last more than a night (or maybe some recurring nights), because it brings up too much from his family background and his fears that everything will devolve into yelling if things get serious.
And given his regular disruptions of the class, he kind of is overdue from starting to tackle this issue and the impact its having on those around him. Make him the sort of man who isn’t so afraid of the class tackling serious issues or Danny bringing up his relationship struggles even if he is still the same ol’ sexually harassing dunderhead as before.
I think there is some real potential for Joe-growth being hinted at in the third panel. He’s noticed something there, in Joyce’s response, which he is reacting to in a thoughtful fashion; it’s a crack in the ‘bro’ facade.
We’ll see if Lesley has the right crowbar.
One way Joe might have turned out this way:
If he grew up with his parents in a loveless marriage, he may not really believe love really exists, since he never saw it. Love is one of those noble high-minded ideals made up by poets who think it ought to exist. But in the real world it is just a lie and a pose people use to exploit each other.
So he determines not to lie about love just to get sex, but to be honest about lust to get sex. The part about doing that without being a creepy jerk he hasn’t gotten to yet.
That’s actually a really good analysis and yeah, I can totally see that as being the psychological landscape that Joe’s working with. Hell, part of why he hasn’t learned how to not be a creepy jerk about his attractions might be that his dad modeled the literal worst way of putting forth sexual attractions and so that’s the model he’s trying to modify and work with, but he doesn’t have all the tools to be a genuinely sweet and open sexual inviter instead of this kinda creepy predator who can’t handle anything more serious than a slight cough.
I’d suggest that part of it is also the thought of being married to Joyce especially considering how bad her behavior was on there previous date and I don’t mean the physical assault but more the making light of his parents divorce and her complete inability to see anything other then her extremely narrow personal point of view
I mean would anyone here actually want to marry Joyce as she is right now in the strip? Of course she turns out well but right now shes a major mess so of course Joe would be horrified but pretending to be married to, say Roz, well thats a completely different kettle of fish
Well I just thinks theres a massive over-reaction to Joe and his antics so some development or explanation as to why he does what he does might stem the comments…maybe
More like Joe be rationally scared of Joyce.
I think the joke is that Joe accuses Joyce of being dramatic, playing into the traditional stereotypical dichotomy of ‘dramatic women, serious men’ – but on the very next panel HE’s the one grossly overreacting to a simple class assignment.
There’s that too. It’s the sort of irony usually at play whenever some dudebro tries to argue that they’re being logical and the wimmins are just being ruled by their feels right before going on some big dramatic tantrum about their man-feels.
Wait. I assumed the joke was that Joe was horrified at the notion of being married to JOYCE.
Sometime I wonder what people think when they read my comments?
Horror, Confusion, Perverse sexual lust?
Yes.
Dull Surprise
…Perverse sexual lust?
Are we supposed to be in agreement, or aghast, when making this observation?
Because yes.
You forgot apathy. I dunno how many people react to you with it, but it seems statistically probable.
Panel 1: Joyce is in politely asking with sadness mode rather than over-reaction mode. If Joe has any sense, part of that panel 3 is a realization that this is the equivalent of a rattlesnake shaking its tail and will tread lightly. If not, well… ~we’re going off the rails on a crazy train~
Panel 4: Part 1: Leslie is an amazing teacher. I mean, we know that she started the class in just the worst mood. Upset and disappointed in her students, worried about Joyce, negative body language and even collapsing head in hands in frustration over Joe’s latest class disruption. But give her 5 seconds and here she is, adopting relaxed and upbeat body posture and confidence, showing no sign of being upset and projecting her cool friendly teacher persona. As a teacher, I know all the internal work that goes into being in teacher mode when you’re just not feeling it, and Leslie is an absolute master craftswoman about it. She still probably needs to work on overall classroom management, but in general, she’s really a top-notch educator in this universe.
Panel 4: Part 2: I may have an idea where Leslie is going with this and its kind of brilliant. Especially since she disguised the lesson until people paired up. With this, she can segue from the LGBT section to note how universal marriage can be and highlight bad assumptions like “who’s the man” and so forth that often go into creating oppressive dynamics, showing the similarities between the two women couples and the “het” couples. Similarly, she can do a lot of diving into just how marriage and marriage dynamics are constructed and encourage examining prejudices of how it should be run and demonstrating alternatives for the students for them to take home and be able to apply to their own lives.
There’s a lot of different directions she can go and it can even be used to deconstruct a lot of the gender essentialism Joe and Joyce especially have been putting out there in class. It’s a cleverly done setup and I’m really excited to see where she goes with this (but then I’m a sucker for most of the Leslie-focused Gender Studies strips).
And Part 3: Joe… shut up Joe. But more seriously, this is something he desperately needs. To actually confront the amount of baggage he has about marriage from his parent’s divorce and perhaps grow slightly more in his ability to handle lesson material and feelings without constantly pushing the “I quit” button.
Yes to all this, especially the Leslie points. So much love for Leslie right now.
(btw: thank you and thank you again for your posts here. we get awesome and generous analysis and wisdom from you on every strip, and it’s appreciated.)
Aw, thanks, that’s sweet.
Panel 2: I’m a little disappointed that Joyce can’t even agree not to punch him repeatedly in the face for the next 45 minutes.
Panel 3: How much of Joe’s reaction shot here is due to him registering the change in her (and the swear!) and how much just “Is she really going to start punching?”
On your panel 2 point: Yeah, Joyce is in really bad straits right now. She’s filled with anger and hurt and despair and it’s all bottled up waiting to explode. Now that explosion is probably going to occur with her family where “she’ll say something she can’t ever take back”, but she’s basically the equivalent of an unsecured bottle of nitroglycerin right now.
Happily though, she seems to be aware of her internal state much more these days, with the “oh, right, I’m not flashbacking, huh” earlier and with her Panel 3 here. And she’s definitely trying to defuse social situations in a way she wouldn’t have done before (preferring instead to go very much in the direction of strong emotional responses).
And I think part of that might also be that she knows that Joe is toxic for where she is right now and not something she needs where she’s at and so she’s not making any promises to not beat him up in case he starts jamming on her trigger buttons (which wouldn’t be his fault or excuse her violent responses, but it’s again, her recognizing that possibility welling up inside of her).
On Panel 3: I dunno. I can hope that there’s some awareness and realization, but it’s probably all: “wait, she didn’t actually say no to punching me repeatedly” and that’s largely because current Joe is a bit allergic to character growth.
That, but it’s not just her bad straits right now. She’s never actually acknowledged that the punching was wrong or ruled it out in similar circumstances.
“oh, right, I’m not flashbacking, huh”
I want Willis to bring over Shortpacked!Robin and her No Flashbacking! THWUMP! moves.
… Even JOE thinks something’s wrong. Jeez.
He has finally realized that there are some problems he can’t solve with his penis.
His father forgot to mention that. And he’s a BONE doctor!
Now I’m kinda disappointed Joyce and Dorothy weren’t paired.
^yes
I dunno, now that Joyce knows what the assignment is… and knows that Joe is going to be going out of his way to dodge out of it… who knows, Leslie might give her special dispensation to form a triad with the Keeners.
Then she’d have to be married to Walky and that seems almost as bad for her as Joe.
Could have been worse, it could have been Roz. At least with Joe, Joyce get’s to be the dominate of the pairing and make his life miserable.
Kidding…maybe
They’ve been married for weeks.
Your icon is perfect for this
Also, Joyce, the “ass” in “jackass” is a donkey, not a butt. Though American English has conflated them, they’re different words with different origins, one from Old English assa, “donkey”, the other from ears, “butt”. The Bible uses it. It’s okay to say. It isn’t okay to covet your neighbor’s. It probably isn’t okay to covet your neighbor’s arse, either.
Words are funny like that. There is the logical, rational understanding of a word and then there is the emotional, irrational impact of a word.
Bet Joyce has issues with words like Asset, Assessment, Asteroid, and Asterisk.
But strangely, she’s fine with assassin.
As long as she doesn’t start talking about “Dexter and Monkey Mbuttter”…
‘Mmm. Butt.’ seems out of character for Joyce. At least outloud.
Some word filters in the internet are logically and rationally operating on the buttumption that these words should be written as Buttet and Buttessment.
Asteroid and Asterisk are fine, but Buttbuttination will be outright murdered!
I knew someone would have beaten me to pointing that out…but I was expecting it to have happened an hour earlier….
This information and reflection cheered me up today.
I know what Joyce is going through. Changing from that phase of “goody two-shoes, never do wrong Christian kid” to “real word that makes you just kinda embrace its failures and cuss cause fuggit”.
Maybe not to her extent, by all means, but the situations are similar.
What they don’t realise is that Leslie is a licensed marriage celebrant, so these weddings are legally binding.
Thus setting up lots of future funny bits when the priest/minister/rabbi/judge/whatever says “If anyone knows of a reason why these two should not be joined, let them speak now or forever hold their peace.”
*Leslie steps out of a dark corner of the room with a shit-eating grin*
“Actually…”
*Ding*
No.
Oh, suck it up, Joe. Commitment isn’t toxic, especially if simulated!
Joyce Brown ALWAYS catches her man
XD….I this now my favorite DoA stripe of all time. I actually thought yield “noooooo” Scream came from joyce.
Me too. This is going to be extremely interesting!!
Breathe, Joe. Breathe.
This is going to be extremely interesting.
POST-marital hanky-panky??
I’m so happy this won’t get awkward for anybody
Oh come on, Joe. Man up, play the game etc
No he won’t.
True. He did say “don’t gotta get all dramatic on me” before wailing like the beast from the deep.
Joyce’s next step is “You fucking jackass” then a swift kick to Joe’s cajones right after this scenario:
“You’ve been married 5 years. You come home and you find your husband in bed with 2 cheerleaders. What do you do?”
Oh shit, is this story line leading to Joyce (stressed out, vulnerable) sleeping with Joe (he is Joe)? I hope not, oh I truly hope not.
I hope so, I truly hope so….
I wonder. At some point we might see Joyce enter into a new romance, and it’s not like there’s lots of dudes she can viably be shipped with. The most likely ones would be Joe and Walky, unless a new character is introduced to date her.
Or she goes for Dorothy. I’ve had her pegged as a closet bisexual for some time.
Dorothy’s straight, though she seemed receptive to the idea that she might eventually come to a different conclusion. Joyce I interpret as mildly biromantic or heteroflexible, but not bisexual.
Which, incidentally, puts Dorothy in the same boat as Joyce for not really having any other viable love interests if she and Walky were to end. There’s not really any other important and compatible dudes in the cast she could date.
Jacob, if Sarah manages to wreck the JacobXRaidah-ship.
Sarah vs Dorothy cage match?
Hence, important. Jacob really only matters as Sarah’s eyecandy and Ethan’s roommate.
And like, it’s not impossible to introduce a new character as a love interest; that’s kind of how things worked out in QC with Marten/Claire, but that doesn’t seem to be what Willis wants to do in this series.
And of course, there’s nothing going on with Dorothy and Walky right now that would motivate a break up.
He has added new characters though, from time to time. No reason one of the minor male characters or a new male character couldn’t get more screen time and become important enough for a romance with the lead.
I doubt Joyce is in a state to get involved in the near future anyway, which probably means a couple of years of real time to prepare any potential date.
Which Joe would need as much as any new character. He’d need a lot of character growth before he’s ready for any relationship that doesn’t start (and pretty much end) with sex.
True nuff. Becky practically appeared out of whole cloth (though with the benefit of already having a strong relationship with the lead), Dina only really became important this year as she got together with Becky, I get the feeling Carla’s going to start showing up more often with Amber, and unless I misread this tumblr post, Willis isn’t opposed to having Sayid pop up some more.
http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/133484774607/was-sayid-planned-or-is-his-role-expanding-due-to
As for Joe himself, well, yeah. He’s been a perennial bit character since his introduction, so if he started showing up more often, if the Joe/Joyce stuff from IW! was followed up here, it would have the benefit of giving him some much needed development and have him work out the worst parts of his character.
Doubtful.
Please draw it .
(artist, intentionally left unspecified)
I’m not sure I am enjoying watching Joyce getting smashed by social and emotional baseball bats constantly. One can only deal with so much before they break, and I believe Joyce may be beyond that point.
What do you think could happen, an evil version of Joyce would spawn as an escape valve? That would be silly!
Lose all motivation to do anything period, spend her days scrolling through internet / watching tv / just lying on a bed looking at the ceiling, feeling progressively worse the more alarmed her friends grow…
🙂
Yeah I can see this. Or obsessively reading the Bible trying to get it to all make sense again.
But it’s something that can often end up happening around that age group. Which is probably why Sarah said “I’ll be so sad when this world breaks you” in the first place.
I dub thee Joeyce
I prefer JoJo.
I think Joe will be good for her in some way. not sure how. xD
And vice-versa.
Suddenly I have the TV theme for “The Odd couple” as an earworm..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af1h4ibpKJA
So Joyce is gonna scowl in five days. I think we know why now.
This is why I love Joyce.
This has potential. Though the Dorothy-Joyce “marriage” could have been a lot of fun, too. Walky would have treated it like comedy gold, at least.
I’m surprised at how quickly Joyce has started to expand her swear vocabulary, considering she was only using damn and hell just a day(?) ago.
I suspect there’s going to be a period where she swears way too much then learns to tone it back.
Typically what that dam breaks, there’s a lot of floodwater built up behind it at first.
The Toedad Kidnapping and Joyces first swear happened on comic-time Monday.
This is Friday, so its been 4 days
Y’know, looking at panel 3 again, I think that Joe is genuinely worried about Joyce. Could he be a jerk with a heart?
Maybe? That’s what happened to his Walkyverse counterpart but this Joe actively buries anything remotely emotional.
It’s hard to ascribe character motivations to a dude with barely any character. I’m attached to the “Mary is hiding wrist scars” theory, but it’s really only based on thin evidence.
He looks more confused rather than anything else. This is probably the first time he’s heard Joyce swear.
Yeah, I think that’s it. He’s not concerned that Joyce is hurting or something; the weird fundie girl said a bad word.
Why do I get the feeling this exercise will be more telling about Dorothy and Walky’s relationship instead of anything to do between Joyce and Joe?
Heh, ‘Jackbutt’, indeed!
As much as it’s the antithesis of ‘fun’ for Joyce, I’m still enjoying seeing her paradigm shift from it’s extremely limited perspective, to a much broader, all-inclusive one; growing pains are still most certainly painful, but it’s also growth, and watching a mind open up and expand is a beautiful thing. 😀
Neat. I can’t wait to see how badly Joe reacts when he finds out it’s all hypothetical.
I think that even ‘hypothetical’ is triggering a trauma response!
I like how Joyce tells Joe not to be a jackass, but won’t promise to punch Joe in the face in the same breath 😀
I dunno, the first couple panels pretty much nailed a married couple’s daily interaction on the head.
“Can you manage not to punch me repeatedly in the face.”
Joe….She took down Toedad in a single strike. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MAN, REPHRASE THE QUESTION!!!
Awww, man, now I -really- wish Joyce and Dotty had paired up.
“You’ll live.” Given Joyce’s frame of mind, hardly a foregone conclusion.
Anyone else ready for a hypothetical baby plot? XP
Seriously, it’d probably help Joe work out his daddy issues.
That’s a different classroom exercise, when you try to convince high school girls not to get pregnant.
I could not help but laugh out loud when I saw the last bubble.
That was gold.
I have been watching way too much YGO:TAS. I keep hearing LittleKuriboh’s Tristan Taylor voice yelling “nooooooooo” when I read Joe’s exclamation.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who has this curse
The Jackbutt is strong with this one
It hurts me that this is unseen.
I find myself wondering what the effort to be more “normal” is actually costing Joyce… and if we’ll see that play out at some point.
Joe: “I immediately sue for divorce on the basis of domestic violence. Her dating history comes to light: Two of the three men she dated or expressed interest in were violently beaten by herself and/or others on her behalf, and the third was a supremely unthreatening gay man. Based on that, I gain full custody of our children and her visitation of them is court-ordered to be supervised by an armed police officer.”
Sandra: “Hey! That scumbag Ryan had it coming!”
Joe: “I DON’T disagree at all, but do you think it would be a good idea to repeat that in a courtroom, Person of African Descent?”
Sandra: “…nope.”
Leslie: “Joe, if you haven’t yet learned that our culture doesn’t give a shit about men’s legal or civil rights, and only champions the causes of women, I really don’t think I can pass you in this class.”