Seeing a loved one fall apart is… well it’s fucking hard. I don’t know how to really put it. I don’t know if I’ve ever had a positive experience helping, since the one I most associate with it has kind of constantly exploded in my face for the last 12 years.
It’s true, though, that, even if you can’t fix them, even if you can’t stop the crying jags and the self-abuse and the depression, being there trying to help DOES help. It’s damn hard on the helper (it is on me), but they do come out of it, and it’s because you were there.
Being on the “Amber-type” part of my relationship, I can assure that it helps even when it looks like the total opposite. Especially (as in only) if you keep enough distance with it to not drag yourself down. Or else it causes horrible guilt spirals. Give what help you reastically can while respecting yourself and not letting yourself get caught in the mechanics (or at least have a non-partner-related outlet), direct them to get the help you can’t give, that’s about all you can (and should) do. More won’t help, it’ll harm. I know :p
Speaking from experience it doesn’t help when two implosive people are together. One will often implode as a result of dealing with the other’s implosion.
No. I really haven’t done anything but watch .hack//SIGN and get acutely addicted to Yuki Kajiura’s music. I’ve gotten various of the games and videos but never gotten around to actually, you know, watching or playing them.
(Not because of anything about .hack, I get that way about a lot of things.)
Nah, they already did that, but someone screwed up and created a second Pattern in an act of desperation, which is why she has a split personality now.
I had that stuck in my head the other day, and I was telling my friend about it, and I was like “that probably isn’t the actual title of the song” except it turns out it is
You can’t make a project of people, you can’t fix them. You can encourage them to get help, ask them if they’d like to make a plan, and remind them of their coping strategies, but that’s about it.
oh! And you can be present for them, you can listen, if you’re good at doing those things. But pretty much all the work is theirs. I don’t know why, it just works out that way every dang time.
I have been down this road before, it’s a project and you have to be in it for the long haul otherwise you’re just making things worse. You aren’t doing the fixing, you just hand them the tools when they ask, but still someone needs to be there with the tools for it to work. Nobody like Amber has ever gotten “fixed” by themselves even if they are doing most of the work.
So like, I do think that “fixing” does have to come from within, but it’s best done surrounded by support. Amber is the one who needs to make decisions and get help, but Danny and Ethan can push her into the right direction and be there for her.
Ah, I see what you mean. The support team!
The concept fixing somebody is still problematic (it implies that they’re a broken, incomplete person, which they aren’t). But you’re right, a loyal pit crew as they heal, as they develop other strategies, whatever their approach is to making their lives better — that’s so important and helpful.
Yeah; though it helps to have other people, these other people will be with that person at their worse: the awkward, toggling, unstable adherence to the determination-action-relapse stages of the transtheoretical model. In this respect Danny might be good for her: he’s present but generally not pushy and lets her have her space.
Don’t have much respect for transtheoretical models. Given Amber’s background and trauma, she’s done an amazing job of repairing herself. Yes, the fix is badly flawed and yes, it’s fragile in places. But holy cheese, Amber is awesome.
What we call ‘psychological disorders’ are really the brain’s way of fixing itself, of dealing with traumas that are so bad, they would destroy the person, or render them unable to survive. We see them as ‘broken’ only because they don’t fit into our society’s notions of how a person is ‘supposed’ to behave.
Or, put slightly differently: They’re the brains adaptions for dealing with horrific situations. They’re seen as a problem because once you’re out of that situation, you still have the adaption but it’s no longer appropriate to the more normal situation you’re now living in.
That is how David Drake always talks about it in his notes on his military science fiction. The mindset and behaviors that are sane in a war zone are insane back home.
“Turn both of those frowns sideways, in two different directions!”
They’ll be too busy working out what on earth we’re talking about to be sad anymore.
I started writing fanfic in the days when USENET was the place to post it, and I still write it in vi using that style of formatting. When I want to put it on AO3, I convert to HTML once it’s finished; a few quick search-and-replaces is all it takes.
^This. I use Open Document file types and save as RTF for posting at the moment, but when I’m in a pinch and have to use Notepad or another TXT editor, I use *bold*, /italic/ and _underline_ while typing.
Let me just check the list…
Amber being a shit, check.
Amber having an episode about it, check.
Amber’s episode guilt trips Dan into believing he’s the one at fault, check.
Good news, we’re right on track here. Feel free to carry on.
I’d like to imagine that Trump’s hair is some kind of parasite. At least he’d be doing good for someone that way, even if it’s only providing food for some kind of mutant caterpillar.
See, that’s the problem – Trump’s brain slug WAS feeding off his brain. Problem is, it ran out. That’s when he decided to run for President. Now that poor thing is starving. What’s worse, it’s surrounded by other Republican presidential candidates – so, no alternate food sources available.
So Danny remembered why he’s here. Incidentally, I almost said he remembered why he came, but then it occurred to me that there’s more than one way that can be interpreted.
Ethan wants to be helpful here, but he’s clearly at as much of a loss as Danny. Amber’s issues go far beyond what either one of these boys are prepared to handle.
Guess that he came for help on both issues and nothing wrong with that I guess.
As far as being in over their heads, I agree. They can’t help her. Amber is way beyond the sit down with friends and discuss point.
Going to someone who can help, like a parent they trust or school council or Leslie Bean would be the smart move here.
Actual licensed therapist. Those people only help if they recommend a professional, which some of them will some won’t. Amber is way far beyond what almost anyone is equipped to deal with at this point.
I disagree that Amber is attempting to guild Danny into anything.
He is the one doing ‘the poor me, I don’t know what to do now’, act.
This from the guy who dumped her when she needed him most, so he could date ‘Amazi-Girl’. Instead of telling him then she just walked away, not much elses she could do short of begging, and she dosen’t do that.
This from the guy who not only enabled her to keep playacting at a secret identity, but asked her to wear her mask when they had sex. A great way to let Amber know that Amber didn’t count.
This from a guy who only just today woke up to the fact that Amber is in a world of shit, and he helped.
Not he isn’t to blame for any of it, but he wasn’t too aware of anything but his desire to date a super hero either. Maybe if he really cared for Amber, he’d had noticed a bit sooner.
(Clicks Danny tag). So roughly 130 Danny comics ago we had Danny apologizing to Amber for suggesting that they shouldn’t hang out anymore.
I’m not going to read the comments on all of those 130 Danny comics that have happened since, but I’m going to assume at least half of them have the twisted Idontcarenomore interpretation to Danny’s actions. (Which kinda makes their name ironic). And I’ll assume we always correct it.
At this point I’m wonder if they are going to condense it to a simple “Danny is the worst”.
I was specifically referring to Idontcarenomore’s tendency to rant about how Danny is a monster for how he treated Amber like clockwork and not respond to anyone who points out that’s not what happened. (And repeat the cycle the next comic). Which I realize now means they’re most likely trolling. I’ll just shut up now.
Well, he DOESN’T know what to do, so I don’t think it’s much of an act. He’s honestly going to Ethan to seek any wisdom and advice that he might have.
Also, was he even AWARE that she needed him badly at that point in time? She butted in, and I don’t think she explained the situation. (correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t archive searched for that strip.) Danny didn’t know that Amber and Amazi-Girl were one in the same because he’s a bit slow I guess. He felt like she was trying to get him to cheat on his girlfriend, and that hurt his feelings.
If I remember right, it was Amber who made the choice to wear the mask, not Danny. That might’ve only been shown in the Slipshine I’ll have to look in a minute.
I agree that Danny helped though. He is enabling her. He isn’t standing up for himself, he isn’t telling her that he wants all of her. I don’t agree that he doesn’t care about Amber. He does. He just doesn’t know how to deal with the reality in front of him, and I don’t think it’s fair to blame him for that.
Amber has told him that “Amber” is not his girlfriend. That “Amber” is only his friend, and that he needs to follow that. She doesn’t want him to care about “Amber.” She wants him to care about her other side and only that. And Danny doesn’t know what to do with this, and I think he might be slowly figuring out that he CAN’T deal with it.
I totally agree that Danny is doing the best he can in this situation. As someone who has dealt with emotionally unstable loved ones, it’s kind of hurtful to see people blaming Danny for not knowing what to do.
I’d like to add to what you say here. “He is enabling her. He isn’t standing up for himself, he isn’t telling her that he wants all of her.” Perhaps that is what he’s been doing up to that point, though again, he doesn’t know what to do and it’s hard to push someone and maybe not always the best to take a hard line stance right away. Also, I’d argue that he DOES try to do this in the strip after he kisses her. He tells her that she is Amazi-Girl, that she is the person that he admires and wants. And she blows up in his face. The fact that he now may be blaming himself is easy to understand given that he’s a nonconfrontational person who’s just been blown up at, however unreasonably… it’s something I can really identify with.
You want to prove Amber didnt guilt him ( after she literally screamed at him blamed him, then herself ) by literally guilting Danny for everything Amber is personally responsible for. She may be a hot-mess, but she is extremely competent. you can’t take that from her.
You forgot to blame Danny for getting kidnapped by Blaine.
You have a point tho. Amber does look innocent of guilting, in comparison.
Danny is guilting himself because he cares about Amber and because emotional abuse fills a need he has. Amber is guilting herself and inadvertainly Danny because she is broken and it takes her a little while to put herself back together.
There’s nothing wrong with dumping somebody and getting together with somebody else. How would… how would he have known? “Man, that Lois Lane chick is a bongo for turning down Clark Kent for Superman.” I mean, come on.
The secret identity thing, the “keep the mask on” shit, etc. etc., that all comes from the fact that he assumed she was just goofing around. (Plus, masks are hot in certain erotic circumstances). If I was dating a superhero or some shit, I wouldn’t assume that their secret identity is a personality disorder. Why the hell would I, considering that I am familiar with both the concept of superheros having secret identities and acting.
How is it an act when he genuinly wants to help her?
He was dating someone else (he thought) at the time he tried to break off contact with Amber. Danny is nothing if not faithful.
She’s the one who demanded that he officially only dates A-G, with the justification of “I don’t want you to date Amber and just trust me on that without asking any question kthx”.
She’s the one who presented the mask thing as an erotic choice, again after deciding that Danny is only dating Amber when she has a mask on.
“If you really cared, you should have noticed that I was trying to hide the fact that I need help sooner.” Yeah, no guilt tripping Danny going on here.
“He is the one doing ‘the poor me, I don’t know what to do now’, act.
This from the guy who dumped her when she needed him most, so he could date ‘Amazi-Girl’. Instead of telling him then she just walked away, not much elses she could do short of begging, and she dosen’t do that.”
(1) How the hell is he supposed to know that she “needed him most”? All he knew was that this girl, whom he had previously told that he was interested in but had decided to pursue someone else, wrangled him into pretending that they were dating, making him feel unfaithful to his girlfriend. It’s hard when you like two different people and it’s shitty if someone tries to take advantage of your attraction and get you to be unfaithful. Danny couldn’t know why Amber knew it would be OK.
(2) Not much she could do short of begging? Really? How about tell the truth? I know that this is all very complicated and I don’t blame Amber for not telling him in that moment, but seriously.
“If he really cared, he would have noticed it sooner” is actually a really horrible thing to say about/to a person in the context of a loved one’s mental health problems. It’s not impossible to hide this stuff from even the people in your life who really give a shit, especially if they don’t know they’re supposed to be looking.
And no, Danny isn’t the most observant guy, but that doesn’t make him a dick for not knowing any better. He’s just figuring out how deep the rabbit hole goes, but instead of running away he’s trying to help, and seeking help from someone with experience in (also trying to be) doing so. I’m not sure how that counts against the boy.
( i lost track who this was aimed at )
As someone who has actually done this in real life, you dont know what you are talking about. Amber has a personality disorder , probably Borderline with elements of dissociation and splitting ( which are common features ) .
You have no idea how deep that rabbit holes goes, It just goes and goes and curls up in itself in a-drama Ouroboros.
Observing is NOT enough, you need a specialist to know what those observations mean.
Dannys has been doing the right thing, and not getting sucked deep into the drama . That cant last.
Amber knows this, and thats why shes having him date Amazigirl. instead.
But she doesnt realize she starving him of regular affection and genuine interaction . Danny wants both but doesnt know what that means.
If shes Borderline Amber CANT date Danny because she likes him. That would trigger her. BPS project all their illness onto their partner.
its complicated!
I get that Danny and Ethan aren’t anywhere near enough of the help that Amber really really needs, which can probably only be given by a medical professional. They’re all still kids. Legal adults, but barely. Obviously just noticing Amber has issues and caring about her isn’t going to be enough, but hopefully their support can get her to a place where she can SEEK the professional help she needs (and actually be helped by it…I’m aware the mental health system is by no means perfect, either).
I was mostly just commenting on idontcarenomore’s assertion that not noticing how unstable Amber really is meant that Danny didn’t care enough. All I have to go by is my own personal experiences with mental unhealth, and I realize depression =/= what Amber has going on upstairs, but…
Well, to put it plainly, I’ve spent the last year and a half in a really deep depression, complete with suicidal ideation, and the fact that I WAS suicidal was a complete shock to basically my whole support network, including my mother, who I saw and spoke to regularly for the duration. We’re very close. But she had no idea how bad off I was, because I faked it well enough and it’s not like I actually vocalized any of the bad places I got to mentally. And then there’s my best friend, who is one of my roommates, who I saw even more often than my mom, and SHE had no idea. And then there’s my other roommate/good friend, who has a DOCTORATE IN PSYCHOLOGY, and also had no idea. And it’s not because they or my mother didn’t care enough to, like, develop psychic powers and drag me out of my dark place or whatever the OP is expecting of Danny (to get back on topic), who again is an 18yo boy with presumably jack shit in the way of training as a mental health professional.
So no, I’m pretty sure “if he really cared he would have noticed it sooner” is a really messed up thing to say. Is caring enough, ultimately? No, love is not, in fact, all you need. (Sorry, John Lennon.) But Danny recognizing a problem is there and that he is woefully ill-equipped to handle it on his own and caring enough to seek help in helping Amber is a decent start. There’s no perfect and easy solution here, but I doubt that Danny “peacing out” of his relationship(s) with Amber’s various…personalities? Alters? Compartmentalizations?…would do more than confirm to her that Amber ruins everything she touches and doesn’t deserve nice things, and that AG is better off going it alone too.
Anyway I just hope her health insurance is up to the task, if/when she does seek help from a pro.
tbh I don’t think Danny did anything wrong, and I feel bad that he thinks he did. I hope talking it out with Ethan will bring him some kind of comfort and maybe some guidance? Ethan was with her for a long time, she might’ve had outbursts with him too.
We’ve seen at least one, where she flipped a table because Ethan kept dating Joyce.
Baseless guilt is how Danny rolls; if he can find a reason why something is his fault, he’ll take it. He did do a thing that made Amber react negatively, but he seems more concerned with Amber’s behaviour than he is with blaming himself for causing it.
Oh, look, the buffer’s updating again. I was wondering how long it would take: first, out of morbid curiosity as to how much fatherhood would impact Willis’s comic-drawing OCD, and secondly because if it was a long enough pause I was going to be looking forward to seeing if there was any noticeable difference in the art between March 21 and 22.
I got a little misty on this one. I’ve never heard my relationship with my wife described so well. She’s brilliant, funny, and successful…. but sometimes she just falls apart. And it feels like nothing I say is helping; like I’m not making a dent in the impenetrable wall of self-loathing. But later she tells me ever word sinks in, even if it doesn’t show at the time.
Yes, thank you Ethan. That is exactly what someone needed to say to Danny: That, as hard as it is, he has had a positive effect on Amber, both in the past and in the present. He needs to endure with her and keep pounding at that wall. Given enough time, even a wall of solid diamond can be abraded away.
Loving Amber O’Malley is, by definition, hard. Every bit of progress measured only in fractions of an inch. However, she needs someone who is willing to do just that and I think that Danny wants to be that person. However, like many carers IRL, he needs support too for those hard times and I think that Ethan, caring, empathetic, loving Ethan, is just the man for that job.
This here is why the relationship between Danny and Sal in this comic is so very interesting as well. If he’s still tutoring her in math, that’s something he really needs, a problem that isn’t a huge investment for him, where he can do some real help and see real results. Dude’s a helper, and Amber… even in the best case scenario, I doubt there’s going to be any really visible results anytime in the near future.
Of course, then you have the flipside. He has no clue about the huge buttloads of drama between Amber and Sal, and how that will complicate the things he cares about more down the line.
I occasionally fantasise Danny being some kind of catalyst in terms of the Sal/Amber dynamic and forcing them to confront their shared past and their role in each other’s neuroses; if he did, it probably would be unintentionally so.
wow, are people here actually saying that amber is trying to guilt trip danny? wtf. you people disgust me and i think you should read on more about mental health, depression and self hatred soon. i feel so sorry for the person with mental health problems who ever tries to come to you for comfort
“I have mental helth problems” is not an excuse to treat the people around you like crap. Yeah, when you’re in an episode you sometimes have trouble controlling what you say and do, but how you act after your episode says a lot. And Amber never comes to Danny for comfort. She has expressivly forbidden Danny to interact with one of her two personalities in public, and constantly cuddles up to him and is super sweet when she dons the mask. Can you see how confusing and frustrating that is? Danny has to obligation towards Amber’s mental health. It’s perfectly fine to cut shitty people out of your life in order to stay happy yourself.
Hello I have depression, anxiety, a panic disorder, and PTSD, and I can tell you that mental illness does not excuse being awful to the people around you. It’s an explanation. Not an excuse. I don’t think Amber is intentionally guilt tripping Danny though. It just…kinda happened because she had an episode and ran off. I’ve had this happen before at parties where I have to go hide in the bathroom for a bit, and the person who brought me feels bad, and I have to assure them that it isn’t their fault.
I used to treat everyone around me like shit until I was taken to the psych ward and put on better medication. Treating my family like gum on the bottom of my shoe was not excusable. We know WHY I did it, but I don’t think that I can just say “lol oops that was my mental health issues and so if it happens again you can’t say anything against it.”
I’ve had people leave me because I WAS a toxic person to be around for a bit. I left an awful elationship because his alcoholism (which he flat out refused to treat) and mental health issues caused him to do literal horrific things to me that I don’t want to get into at risk of triggering people. I had to get out. I dint just say “welp I guess it’s just his mental health, so lets ignore all this.”
Danny shouldn’t ignore what’s going on. And if he needs to cut her out, he needs to cut her out. He can’t make her do anything. He can’t fix her. He can’t make everything okay. So if she’s getting to intense, if she’s harming him emotionally, getting out of that relationship is okay. Some of me wonders if maybe she should focus on herself for a while before being in a relationship, much like I’m doing right now.
There’s going to be no magic wand for this Danny, sorry to say. All you can do is decide if you want to keep at this (which I suspect you do), be there for her, while also realising your own happiness also matters. Ethan can in a way be your support though, if you let him, and Amber lets you be hers. You’ll still need help from an older adult though it seems to me. Or at least convince Amber to go to one.
I have to wonder about Amber’s mother honestly at points. Like apart from when Joe’s dad swoops in do we ever see her? Like what does she do when she hears her abusive exhusband has been in town? We never see Amber getting support there from her do we? Unless we get anything mentioned? Anyone clue me in? I mean I know all but like Dorothy’s parents kind of suck but I just… yeah.
Can Danny and Ethan bring in her mom? Like they don’t even have to mention AG necessarily.
Ever have one of those days when the speech bubbles in a comic reflect a very real scenario in your life, & indeed you feel a mix of worry, exasperation & compassion for someone, whose convinced themselves they can’t overcome their problems constructively?
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Yeah, that’s not a smile. :/
“Well, I think I successfully turned her off, but how do I turn her back on? You think her slashfic would do it? Slash re-enactments?”
You’ll have to get her to come watch first tho.
I’m sure Amber would sense a disturbance in the Force and come.
Hopefully she’d show up first.
You saw how she reacted when Danny said his secret was of a sexual nature. Bet she’d respond to THAT text.
send enough texts and the receiver won’t even look, i bet.
#one-sided
@Dumbing_of_Age_TXT
Poor Danny
He’ll almost redeem himself for Roomies Danny at this rate.
IW!Danny did that. He was still the same stuck up goob, but he felt a lot more nuanced.
Come to think of it, this Danny doesn’t really have a lot in common with the other one.
Seeing a loved one fall apart is… well it’s fucking hard. I don’t know how to really put it. I don’t know if I’ve ever had a positive experience helping, since the one I most associate with it has kind of constantly exploded in my face for the last 12 years.
aw, man, sorry to hear that
Feel ya’, bro. Really do. It’s never easy, and yet we must try again and again – because it’s the right thing to do.
It’s true, though, that, even if you can’t fix them, even if you can’t stop the crying jags and the self-abuse and the depression, being there trying to help DOES help. It’s damn hard on the helper (it is on me), but they do come out of it, and it’s because you were there.
Being on the “Amber-type” part of my relationship, I can assure that it helps even when it looks like the total opposite. Especially (as in only) if you keep enough distance with it to not drag yourself down. Or else it causes horrible guilt spirals. Give what help you reastically can while respecting yourself and not letting yourself get caught in the mechanics (or at least have a non-partner-related outlet), direct them to get the help you can’t give, that’s about all you can (and should) do. More won’t help, it’ll harm. I know :p
Speaking from experience it doesn’t help when two implosive people are together. One will often implode as a result of dealing with the other’s implosion.
This is the problem here, they are forgetting that the proper way to fix Amber is walking the Pattern with the Jewel of Judgement.
You know, I think I remember getting one of those from a level 52 paladin class quest.
I dunno, but in my Tourist ascension I hit an orc and Grayswandir fell out.
The only way to hold back the chaos.
Why me, Unicorn?
Because Granddaddy was into some weird shit.
Orca when did you get out of your coma
Is .hack still a thing these days? I remember that one anime with the really good music on YTV back in like 2006.
It’s not, unfortunately. The last stuff to come out from it was like… I wanna say 2012? 2013? Shame. It was a good franchise.
I think Haseo and Kite are in the new Project X Zone 2, tho
Not as far as I know, I am just an old fart gamer surrounded by young punk gamers, which is why I identify with Bear.
you ever play the G.U. games?
No. I really haven’t done anything but watch .hack//SIGN and get acutely addicted to Yuki Kajiura’s music. I’ve gotten various of the games and videos but never gotten around to actually, you know, watching or playing them.
(Not because of anything about .hack, I get that way about a lot of things.)
PS: No idea who Orca is, other than not me.
Orca’s a main character from the .hack games who has the same character model as Bear, only his tattoos are green instead of blue.
SHIT I FUCKED UP
Nah, they already did that, but someone screwed up and created a second Pattern in an act of desperation, which is why she has a split personality now.
Poor Chaos.
Ok, that was a very cleaver joke. (Note, he is referencing a book series called the Chronicles of Amber, not a game.)
It’s both!
*play Elton John’s “And I Guess That’s Why They Call It The Blues” on the hacked Muzak*
I had that stuck in my head the other day, and I was telling my friend about it, and I was like “that probably isn’t the actual title of the song” except it turns out it is
Just that I was around when it was a hit. So, yeah, it is.
i feel sorry for Danny and Amber. i hope this all turns around in a good way.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
But the unfounded optimism is so cute.
Bouts of disappointment are better then a jaded meh-filled existence.
How did this happen? the comic posted on time.
Yea Danny, Amber is definitely a long-term project
You can’t make a project of people, you can’t fix them. You can encourage them to get help, ask them if they’d like to make a plan, and remind them of their coping strategies, but that’s about it.
This. Like the one about the the psychiatrists and the light bulb, she has to want to change.
oh! And you can be present for them, you can listen, if you’re good at doing those things. But pretty much all the work is theirs. I don’t know why, it just works out that way every dang time.
But if you can’t haul out your metaphorical screwdriver and fix things, at least some, it means that you aren’t being clever and manipulative enough.
And that you can’t take credit for it when they do sort themselves out, which would be terrible.
I have been down this road before, it’s a project and you have to be in it for the long haul otherwise you’re just making things worse. You aren’t doing the fixing, you just hand them the tools when they ask, but still someone needs to be there with the tools for it to work. Nobody like Amber has ever gotten “fixed” by themselves even if they are doing most of the work.
I think I hear what you’re saying.
So like, I do think that “fixing” does have to come from within, but it’s best done surrounded by support. Amber is the one who needs to make decisions and get help, but Danny and Ethan can push her into the right direction and be there for her.
Ah, I see what you mean. The support team!
The concept fixing somebody is still problematic (it implies that they’re a broken, incomplete person, which they aren’t). But you’re right, a loyal pit crew as they heal, as they develop other strategies, whatever their approach is to making their lives better — that’s so important and helpful.
Yeah; though it helps to have other people, these other people will be with that person at their worse: the awkward, toggling, unstable adherence to the determination-action-relapse stages of the transtheoretical model. In this respect Danny might be good for her: he’s present but generally not pushy and lets her have her space.
Don’t have much respect for transtheoretical models. Given Amber’s background and trauma, she’s done an amazing job of repairing herself. Yes, the fix is badly flawed and yes, it’s fragile in places. But holy cheese, Amber is awesome.
What we call ‘psychological disorders’ are really the brain’s way of fixing itself, of dealing with traumas that are so bad, they would destroy the person, or render them unable to survive. We see them as ‘broken’ only because they don’t fit into our society’s notions of how a person is ‘supposed’ to behave.
Or, put slightly differently: They’re the brains adaptions for dealing with horrific situations. They’re seen as a problem because once you’re out of that situation, you still have the adaption but it’s no longer appropriate to the more normal situation you’re now living in.
That is how David Drake always talks about it in his notes on his military science fiction. The mindset and behaviors that are sane in a war zone are insane back home.
Well, you CAN make a project of a person, but be prepared for disappointment and heartbreak.
One way to turn those frowns upside-down is with a 69.
Well, one of them at any rate. 🙂
“Turn both of those frowns sideways, in two different directions!”
They’ll be too busy working out what on earth we’re talking about to be sad anymore.
Also, .txt? Not even .rtf? How do you emphasize how big the dicks are?
Actually, I’m really happy Amber’s a txt girl now that I think about it. Eesh.
If we are talking 6 year old fanfic here, you really need lowest common denominator in file types as well as in … other things.
“It’s amazing that all of her fanfics are, somehow, .jpeg”
ASCII Art. Amber’s fanfic is multimedia.
******Please view in 16 pt Courier for best effect!!******
70-character lines, turn wordwrap off
Dude, even my TI-99A had 80 character lines in the 1980’s.
But you need to allow for multiple indenting on replies.
A fanfic contained entirely within an Atari 2600 cartridge.
I think they did that in Fallout, once…
point? reference to currency. mini-tape measure on one of my keychains.
thats always a conversation piece and an icebreaker with dudes
oh you mean Amber? I have no idea.
There’s a surprising amount of fanfic on Pastebin…
By using *bold*, /italic/ and _underline_.
I started writing fanfic in the days when USENET was the place to post it, and I still write it in vi using that style of formatting. When I want to put it on AO3, I convert to HTML once it’s finished; a few quick search-and-replaces is all it takes.
^This. I use Open Document file types and save as RTF for posting at the moment, but when I’m in a pinch and have to use Notepad or another TXT editor, I use *bold*, /italic/ and _underline_ while typing.
It’s so easy to dan it up when you’re with someone who was raised to blain it up.
Let me just check the list…
Amber being a shit, check.
Amber having an episode about it, check.
Amber’s episode guilt trips Dan into believing he’s the one at fault, check.
Good news, we’re right on track here. Feel free to carry on.
Thanks, Mike.
Thanks…. that one girl Billie broke the heart of, that one time, by accident?
Thanks, Jason’s psycho murderous dimension hopping girlfriend.
Thanks, oddly chubby skeleton hotdog vendor.
What’s with all the thanks? Thanksgiving passed already.
it’s called politeness, mysterious bag man
Curses. Politeness, my only weakness D:
Politeness, wasn’t that a thing in the last century?
It’s making a resurgence, Christmas Deadpool. Probably part of the latest “retro” phase.
Thanks cool transformation from underrated SNES RPG.
Thanks, Deadpool Claus!
Thanks, Obama.
Totally OT, but the Mike here looks as if he is trying to morph into Donald Trump.
Not orange enough
Then there’s the issue of the hair. The style is close, but the problem is it’s not a toupee.
I’d like to imagine that Trump’s hair is some kind of parasite. At least he’d be doing good for someone that way, even if it’s only providing food for some kind of mutant caterpillar.
Oh gods, that’s why he’s so stupid. The mutant caterpillar is FEEDING ON HIS BRAIN.
So if he doesn’t get the nomination he will do a third party campaign as the Brain Slug Partycandidate?
Trump is so dumb I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t take. If Fry’s brain slug starved feeding on his brain, Trump’s certainly would.
See, that’s the problem – Trump’s brain slug WAS feeding off his brain. Problem is, it ran out. That’s when he decided to run for President. Now that poor thing is starving. What’s worse, it’s surrounded by other Republican presidential candidates – so, no alternate food sources available.
no Trump IS the Hair, the rest is just Trump’s human host.
vote Trump or there will be Hell toupee…
I for one, welcome our alien brain parasite overlords.
Important message. It’s okay to fail at helping. It counts for so much when you try.
We R Hellping!
I like both of these comments (saki’s and Captain Button’s)… and now I’m watching the entire series of ReBoot.
Then my work here is done, and I must go.
To your home planet?
Reboot (and Beast Wars) was basically my childhood.
I am still angry about that cliffhanger.
So Danny remembered why he’s here. Incidentally, I almost said he remembered why he came, but then it occurred to me that there’s more than one way that can be interpreted.
Ethan wants to be helpful here, but he’s clearly at as much of a loss as Danny. Amber’s issues go far beyond what either one of these boys are prepared to handle.
Guess that he came for help on both issues and nothing wrong with that I guess.
As far as being in over their heads, I agree. They can’t help her. Amber is way beyond the sit down with friends and discuss point.
Going to someone who can help, like a parent they trust or school council or Leslie Bean would be the smart move here.
Actual licensed therapist. Those people only help if they recommend a professional, which some of them will some won’t. Amber is way far beyond what almost anyone is equipped to deal with at this point.
Is there a not kind of sucky parent in this comic that i don’t know about?
There’s Sierra’s ‘rents. Amber’s mom. Mike’s family.
The Saruyamas and the Keeners are pretty great too.
I feel like he only remembered because he was desperately thinking of a way he could avoid banging Ethan, so he only gets half-points.
I disagree that Amber is attempting to guild Danny into anything.
He is the one doing ‘the poor me, I don’t know what to do now’, act.
This from the guy who dumped her when she needed him most, so he could date ‘Amazi-Girl’. Instead of telling him then she just walked away, not much elses she could do short of begging, and she dosen’t do that.
This from the guy who not only enabled her to keep playacting at a secret identity, but asked her to wear her mask when they had sex. A great way to let Amber know that Amber didn’t count.
This from a guy who only just today woke up to the fact that Amber is in a world of shit, and he helped.
Not he isn’t to blame for any of it, but he wasn’t too aware of anything but his desire to date a super hero either. Maybe if he really cared for Amber, he’d had noticed a bit sooner.
drat, that’s supposed to be ‘guilt’ not guild….dang no edit opt.
There needs to be a law against you or something.
Probably.
I mean, how many times have people told you that these actions you keep ascribing to Danny haven’t happened?
(Clicks Danny tag). So roughly 130 Danny comics ago we had Danny apologizing to Amber for suggesting that they shouldn’t hang out anymore.
I’m not going to read the comments on all of those 130 Danny comics that have happened since, but I’m going to assume at least half of them have the twisted Idontcarenomore interpretation to Danny’s actions. (Which kinda makes their name ironic). And I’ll assume we always correct it.
At this point I’m wonder if they are going to condense it to a simple “Danny is the worst”.
Or “Joyce is the worst” or maybe just “Whichever character we’re discussing is the worst”.
I was specifically referring to Idontcarenomore’s tendency to rant about how Danny is a monster for how he treated Amber like clockwork and not respond to anyone who points out that’s not what happened. (And repeat the cycle the next comic). Which I realize now means they’re most likely trolling. I’ll just shut up now.
Isn’t it, like, a copy paste from the previous days or almost, too ?
Well, he DOESN’T know what to do, so I don’t think it’s much of an act. He’s honestly going to Ethan to seek any wisdom and advice that he might have.
Also, was he even AWARE that she needed him badly at that point in time? She butted in, and I don’t think she explained the situation. (correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t archive searched for that strip.) Danny didn’t know that Amber and Amazi-Girl were one in the same because he’s a bit slow I guess. He felt like she was trying to get him to cheat on his girlfriend, and that hurt his feelings.
If I remember right, it was Amber who made the choice to wear the mask, not Danny. That might’ve only been shown in the Slipshine I’ll have to look in a minute.
I agree that Danny helped though. He is enabling her. He isn’t standing up for himself, he isn’t telling her that he wants all of her. I don’t agree that he doesn’t care about Amber. He does. He just doesn’t know how to deal with the reality in front of him, and I don’t think it’s fair to blame him for that.
Amber has told him that “Amber” is not his girlfriend. That “Amber” is only his friend, and that he needs to follow that. She doesn’t want him to care about “Amber.” She wants him to care about her other side and only that. And Danny doesn’t know what to do with this, and I think he might be slowly figuring out that he CAN’T deal with it.
I totally agree that Danny is doing the best he can in this situation. As someone who has dealt with emotionally unstable loved ones, it’s kind of hurtful to see people blaming Danny for not knowing what to do.
I’d like to add to what you say here. “He is enabling her. He isn’t standing up for himself, he isn’t telling her that he wants all of her.” Perhaps that is what he’s been doing up to that point, though again, he doesn’t know what to do and it’s hard to push someone and maybe not always the best to take a hard line stance right away. Also, I’d argue that he DOES try to do this in the strip after he kisses her. He tells her that she is Amazi-Girl, that she is the person that he admires and wants. And she blows up in his face. The fact that he now may be blaming himself is easy to understand given that he’s a nonconfrontational person who’s just been blown up at, however unreasonably… it’s something I can really identify with.
You want to prove Amber didnt guilt him ( after she literally screamed at him blamed him, then herself ) by literally guilting Danny for everything Amber is personally responsible for. She may be a hot-mess, but she is extremely competent. you can’t take that from her.
You forgot to blame Danny for getting kidnapped by Blaine.
You have a point tho. Amber does look innocent of guilting, in comparison.
Danny is guilting himself because he cares about Amber and because emotional abuse fills a need he has. Amber is guilting herself and inadvertainly Danny because she is broken and it takes her a little while to put herself back together.
Mm.
There’s nothing wrong with dumping somebody and getting together with somebody else. How would… how would he have known? “Man, that Lois Lane chick is a bongo for turning down Clark Kent for Superman.” I mean, come on.
The secret identity thing, the “keep the mask on” shit, etc. etc., that all comes from the fact that he assumed she was just goofing around. (Plus, masks are hot in certain erotic circumstances). If I was dating a superhero or some shit, I wouldn’t assume that their secret identity is a personality disorder. Why the hell would I, considering that I am familiar with both the concept of superheros having secret identities and acting.
How is it an act when he genuinly wants to help her?
He was dating someone else (he thought) at the time he tried to break off contact with Amber. Danny is nothing if not faithful.
She’s the one who demanded that he officially only dates A-G, with the justification of “I don’t want you to date Amber and just trust me on that without asking any question kthx”.
She’s the one who presented the mask thing as an erotic choice, again after deciding that Danny is only dating Amber when she has a mask on.
“If you really cared, you should have noticed that I was trying to hide the fact that I need help sooner.” Yeah, no guilt tripping Danny going on here.
“He is the one doing ‘the poor me, I don’t know what to do now’, act.
This from the guy who dumped her when she needed him most, so he could date ‘Amazi-Girl’. Instead of telling him then she just walked away, not much elses she could do short of begging, and she dosen’t do that.”
(1) How the hell is he supposed to know that she “needed him most”? All he knew was that this girl, whom he had previously told that he was interested in but had decided to pursue someone else, wrangled him into pretending that they were dating, making him feel unfaithful to his girlfriend. It’s hard when you like two different people and it’s shitty if someone tries to take advantage of your attraction and get you to be unfaithful. Danny couldn’t know why Amber knew it would be OK.
(2) Not much she could do short of begging? Really? How about tell the truth? I know that this is all very complicated and I don’t blame Amber for not telling him in that moment, but seriously.
“If he really cared, he would have noticed it sooner” is actually a really horrible thing to say about/to a person in the context of a loved one’s mental health problems. It’s not impossible to hide this stuff from even the people in your life who really give a shit, especially if they don’t know they’re supposed to be looking.
And no, Danny isn’t the most observant guy, but that doesn’t make him a dick for not knowing any better. He’s just figuring out how deep the rabbit hole goes, but instead of running away he’s trying to help, and seeking help from someone with experience in (also trying to be) doing so. I’m not sure how that counts against the boy.
( i lost track who this was aimed at )
As someone who has actually done this in real life, you dont know what you are talking about. Amber has a personality disorder , probably Borderline with elements of dissociation and splitting ( which are common features ) .
You have no idea how deep that rabbit holes goes, It just goes and goes and curls up in itself in a-drama Ouroboros.
Observing is NOT enough, you need a specialist to know what those observations mean.
Dannys has been doing the right thing, and not getting sucked deep into the drama . That cant last.
Amber knows this, and thats why shes having him date Amazigirl. instead.
But she doesnt realize she starving him of regular affection and genuine interaction . Danny wants both but doesnt know what that means.
If shes Borderline Amber CANT date Danny because she likes him. That would trigger her. BPS project all their illness onto their partner.
its complicated!
I get that Danny and Ethan aren’t anywhere near enough of the help that Amber really really needs, which can probably only be given by a medical professional. They’re all still kids. Legal adults, but barely. Obviously just noticing Amber has issues and caring about her isn’t going to be enough, but hopefully their support can get her to a place where she can SEEK the professional help she needs (and actually be helped by it…I’m aware the mental health system is by no means perfect, either).
I was mostly just commenting on idontcarenomore’s assertion that not noticing how unstable Amber really is meant that Danny didn’t care enough. All I have to go by is my own personal experiences with mental unhealth, and I realize depression =/= what Amber has going on upstairs, but…
Well, to put it plainly, I’ve spent the last year and a half in a really deep depression, complete with suicidal ideation, and the fact that I WAS suicidal was a complete shock to basically my whole support network, including my mother, who I saw and spoke to regularly for the duration. We’re very close. But she had no idea how bad off I was, because I faked it well enough and it’s not like I actually vocalized any of the bad places I got to mentally. And then there’s my best friend, who is one of my roommates, who I saw even more often than my mom, and SHE had no idea. And then there’s my other roommate/good friend, who has a DOCTORATE IN PSYCHOLOGY, and also had no idea. And it’s not because they or my mother didn’t care enough to, like, develop psychic powers and drag me out of my dark place or whatever the OP is expecting of Danny (to get back on topic), who again is an 18yo boy with presumably jack shit in the way of training as a mental health professional.
So no, I’m pretty sure “if he really cared he would have noticed it sooner” is a really messed up thing to say. Is caring enough, ultimately? No, love is not, in fact, all you need. (Sorry, John Lennon.) But Danny recognizing a problem is there and that he is woefully ill-equipped to handle it on his own and caring enough to seek help in helping Amber is a decent start. There’s no perfect and easy solution here, but I doubt that Danny “peacing out” of his relationship(s) with Amber’s various…personalities? Alters? Compartmentalizations?…would do more than confirm to her that Amber ruins everything she touches and doesn’t deserve nice things, and that AG is better off going it alone too.
Anyway I just hope her health insurance is up to the task, if/when she does seek help from a pro.
LOL, you *really* dont like Danny, do you?
Maybe it’s a cunning plan to make us like Danny by generating sympathy through excessive trolling posts.
tbh I don’t think Danny did anything wrong, and I feel bad that he thinks he did. I hope talking it out with Ethan will bring him some kind of comfort and maybe some guidance? Ethan was with her for a long time, she might’ve had outbursts with him too.
We’ve seen at least one, where she flipped a table because Ethan kept dating Joyce.
Baseless guilt is how Danny rolls; if he can find a reason why something is his fault, he’ll take it. He did do a thing that made Amber react negatively, but he seems more concerned with Amber’s behaviour than he is with blaming himself for causing it.
Low self esteem and shitty, shitty parents will do that to a guy.
Nooooo,
“I don’t think Danny did anything wrong, and I feel bad that he thinks he did.”
Thats literally Ambers pattern. Dont act it out.
No putting on suits and beating up bad guys. Leave that to the professionals ,and Batgirl.
Oh, look, the buffer’s updating again. I was wondering how long it would take: first, out of morbid curiosity as to how much fatherhood would impact Willis’s comic-drawing OCD, and secondly because if it was a long enough pause I was going to be looking forward to seeing if there was any noticeable difference in the art between March 21 and 22.
That is so important for Danny to hear. With Amber in particular, but in his life in general. What he does IS positive and it is important.
Smiling is overrated
Now that they’ve talked about Amber and all that, they totally need to just do it, now. It’s time for another Slipshine, right?
You are totally insensitive. I like that.
I got a little misty on this one. I’ve never heard my relationship with my wife described so well. She’s brilliant, funny, and successful…. but sometimes she just falls apart. And it feels like nothing I say is helping; like I’m not making a dent in the impenetrable wall of self-loathing. But later she tells me ever word sinks in, even if it doesn’t show at the time.
Its rough.
That makes sense and does sound rough. Supportive Internet Vibes from afar.
Yes, thank you Ethan. That is exactly what someone needed to say to Danny: That, as hard as it is, he has had a positive effect on Amber, both in the past and in the present. He needs to endure with her and keep pounding at that wall. Given enough time, even a wall of solid diamond can be abraded away.
Loving Amber O’Malley is, by definition, hard. Every bit of progress measured only in fractions of an inch. However, she needs someone who is willing to do just that and I think that Danny wants to be that person. However, like many carers IRL, he needs support too for those hard times and I think that Ethan, caring, empathetic, loving Ethan, is just the man for that job.
“Given enough time, even a wall of solid diamond can be abraded away.”
Been Watching Doctor Who recently?
Excellent commentary on carers and the emotional support they can need too.
Funny you should ask.
Sadly, I don’t think they have a couple billion years to spare.
(That might even be enough time for them to graduate, though xP)
Could be a reference, could not. In episode it was referencing an existing saying/story, after all.
Also, love the name you’re using. (Fivey is my fave)
No more .txt, on to texts. Expansion!
On to sub.txt
This here is why the relationship between Danny and Sal in this comic is so very interesting as well. If he’s still tutoring her in math, that’s something he really needs, a problem that isn’t a huge investment for him, where he can do some real help and see real results. Dude’s a helper, and Amber… even in the best case scenario, I doubt there’s going to be any really visible results anytime in the near future.
Of course, then you have the flipside. He has no clue about the huge buttloads of drama between Amber and Sal, and how that will complicate the things he cares about more down the line.
I occasionally fantasise Danny being some kind of catalyst in terms of the Sal/Amber dynamic and forcing them to confront their shared past and their role in each other’s neuroses; if he did, it probably would be unintentionally so.
Sal/Amber =hawt!
wow, are people here actually saying that amber is trying to guilt trip danny? wtf. you people disgust me and i think you should read on more about mental health, depression and self hatred soon. i feel so sorry for the person with mental health problems who ever tries to come to you for comfort
It’s just hte same guy every day.
We’re all the same guy (or in some cases, gal) day after day. Some are even the same troll.
“I have mental helth problems” is not an excuse to treat the people around you like crap. Yeah, when you’re in an episode you sometimes have trouble controlling what you say and do, but how you act after your episode says a lot. And Amber never comes to Danny for comfort. She has expressivly forbidden Danny to interact with one of her two personalities in public, and constantly cuddles up to him and is super sweet when she dons the mask. Can you see how confusing and frustrating that is? Danny has to obligation towards Amber’s mental health. It’s perfectly fine to cut shitty people out of your life in order to stay happy yourself.
Danny has no obligations*
Hello I have depression, anxiety, a panic disorder, and PTSD, and I can tell you that mental illness does not excuse being awful to the people around you. It’s an explanation. Not an excuse. I don’t think Amber is intentionally guilt tripping Danny though. It just…kinda happened because she had an episode and ran off. I’ve had this happen before at parties where I have to go hide in the bathroom for a bit, and the person who brought me feels bad, and I have to assure them that it isn’t their fault.
I used to treat everyone around me like shit until I was taken to the psych ward and put on better medication. Treating my family like gum on the bottom of my shoe was not excusable. We know WHY I did it, but I don’t think that I can just say “lol oops that was my mental health issues and so if it happens again you can’t say anything against it.”
I’ve had people leave me because I WAS a toxic person to be around for a bit. I left an awful elationship because his alcoholism (which he flat out refused to treat) and mental health issues caused him to do literal horrific things to me that I don’t want to get into at risk of triggering people. I had to get out. I dint just say “welp I guess it’s just his mental health, so lets ignore all this.”
Danny shouldn’t ignore what’s going on. And if he needs to cut her out, he needs to cut her out. He can’t make her do anything. He can’t fix her. He can’t make everything okay. So if she’s getting to intense, if she’s harming him emotionally, getting out of that relationship is okay. Some of me wonders if maybe she should focus on herself for a while before being in a relationship, much like I’m doing right now.
apologies for the numerous typos, oops.
Girlfriends who are secretly superheroes. I think Jenny Jones tackled that one. Or, it was at least an article on Cracked.com.
Is it ACTUALLY helping, Ethan, or are you just telling yourself it is?
I think it might help in the short term, which is why he’s not smiling.
There’s going to be no magic wand for this Danny, sorry to say. All you can do is decide if you want to keep at this (which I suspect you do), be there for her, while also realising your own happiness also matters. Ethan can in a way be your support though, if you let him, and Amber lets you be hers. You’ll still need help from an older adult though it seems to me. Or at least convince Amber to go to one.
I have to wonder about Amber’s mother honestly at points. Like apart from when Joe’s dad swoops in do we ever see her? Like what does she do when she hears her abusive exhusband has been in town? We never see Amber getting support there from her do we? Unless we get anything mentioned? Anyone clue me in? I mean I know all but like Dorothy’s parents kind of suck but I just… yeah.
Can Danny and Ethan bring in her mom? Like they don’t even have to mention AG necessarily.
I think that Danny and Ethan are worried with bringing in any kind of authority figure, since if they do, Amber would get arrested.
Ever have one of those days when the speech bubbles in a comic reflect a very real scenario in your life, & indeed you feel a mix of worry, exasperation & compassion for someone, whose convinced themselves they can’t overcome their problems constructively?
Goddamnit, Willis. GG
that was his evil plan ALL ALONG
hmm, wrong e-mail again
I’M SO CONFUSED T_T
I am sure Ethan’s experience supporting Amber contributed to his helping Dina when she couldn’t Stop The Faces.
Hmmm, here’s something I stumbled onto while surfing that Mr David Willis might like to know.
Seems the people at Epicstream think Shortpacked is a “Fantasy Webcomic that will Rock Your World”. Turns out they rather liked it. Low on time so won’t go into details, but I’ll throw the link at the bottom…
http://epicstream.com/features/4-Fantasy-Webcomics-that-will-Rock-Your-World
it has been made aware http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/135547191462/4-fantasy-webcomics-that-will-rock-your-world