But I’m not sure the surface view is the correct one. We have been given the information that sexual orientation as well as some basic personality persists across universes. And I think there is a clue to Danny in the Walky-verse. If you look at his relationships with Joyce and Sal and even to some extent Billie, it is evident Danny gets some kind of emotional/sexual charge out of being abused. And he subtly encourages his abuse. ((Emotional – not physical)) And in this universe we start with Danny provoking emotional punishment from Dorothy.
In this universe, I think it is at least possible that he knows on some level that Amber is not at all comfortable with him and her Amber persona being emotionally intimate. He is feeling guilty about his attraction to Ethan. And so he punishes himself by provoking emotional abuse from Amber which is also stimulating. And all of this is completely subconscious.
In other words, Danny in his own way has a psych that is every bit as twisted as Amber’s. I’m not 100% convinced all this is true, but I would give it over 50%.
Yeah, I really don’t understand Amber’s logic here. If they’re the same person, they could easily date the same person because it will only be TWO PEOPLE INVOLVED.
DOA logic is confusing.
It’s normal logic, if you view alters as different people. Amber seems to fluctuate between feeling she’s a whole with Amazi-girl as a way to compartmentalize, and feeling she’s just one alter with Amazi-girl being another.
As obvious from her explanation to Danny, at this moment she was 100% separating them.
I mean, I’m 100% in favor of polyamory, but this sort of thing needs to be negotiated and mutually agreed upon, not sprung on someone with a surprise kiss, sooooooo
But at that particular moment, she was NOT separating them right then, not entirely. She transitioned partway through that story into “*I* was bleeding…” and “I said…” By the time he kissed her, she was either AmaziGirl wearing Amber’s clothes, or AG and Amber weren’t so separate at that moment. Poor guy is all kinds of confused.
I’m in agreement with Ruhrow on this one. Even if she does separate them, she’s clearly (and possibly unfortunately) confusing and mixing them together at the moment. The only good side is… While this is horrible for them right now, it’s better for her to combine those two. AG isnt’ invincible, and she needs to realize this, but Amber isn’t as fragile or weak as she lets herself be, and she needs to bring the two together to ever be ‘stable’. Having the ‘creator of AG’ tell her ‘you’re wrong’ was a good start.
I’d just like to point out that when Danny first came up to her, she was doing Amazi-Girl exercises. Even without the outfit on, I kinda think she was in that mode already and shifted back to Amber for him, then shifted back to Amazi-Girl for her story.
She was wearing Amber clothes, stated that no one ought to see her doing AmaziGirl exercises (implication being that nobody should see *Amber* doing AG stuff), discusses AG as a separate person “Ask AmaziGirl, I wasn’t there”, begins the story in third person about AG…and then the separation starts to fall apart. She switches to *I* statements and gets caught up in the emotions of what she experienced. She then seems to make an effort to forcibly separate the personalities again by reiterating each persona’s traits “AmaziGirl gives up, Amber hides”.
It’s at this point that Danny kissed her. Now, yes, she had switched back to “Amber talking about AG”, but Danny…Danny just sat through the entire process, is probably confused as hell, and wants to show someone he cares about, THAT he cares about them, when they’re upset.
It’s confusing as hell, and I say that as someone who has had days to sit here and sift through her rapid shifts in wording and whatnot. He’s just sitting there watching her struggle and seeing the lines she tried to build – lines that he never fully understood and certainly never internalized – break down. Who knows if he ever recognized how important the splitting of those personalities was to her…it’s certainly not unreasonable that he would just *not* get that the distinctions between Amber and AG are even more important to her in a crisis, not less. I feel for the guy…how do you respectfully and healthily support someone in a tough time when their own coping mechanism actively and unhealthily blocks outside help?
Honestly, the whole personality construct she developed seems geared specifically towards preventing any aspect of her from ever admitting that she *needs* help, which means there’s not really any good, viable option left for someone to support her without violating her dual personality rules.
I just don’t think it’s fair to expect the guy to suddenly, perfectly, start considering AG and Amber as two wholly separate people when that’s something *she* is clearly struggling with herself.
In psychological terms it’s called splitting. She’s split herself into two alters due to all the abuse she’s suffered. Integrating alters is an excruciating process.
When would we even call that bet, though? “Agemegos hasn’t prognosticated in a while, but does that mean the hat’s permanently hung up?” “Agemegos keeps prognosticating, but might stop in the future.” “Agemegos stopped prognosticating for a bit and then started again, so that counts as the hat being hung up briefly, rather than the normal delays between everyone’s posts.”
It is a thing, Sutton SignWriting, but you need special software for it (proprietary formats mostly; it was added to Unicode in the last year or so but support is still almost nonexistent)
ASL isn’t Marcie’s first language, though. She wasn’t mute as a small child. Which language she thinks in is kind of an interesting question, actually, since she’s often listening to English and replying in ASL.
I have always understood the “comment as your avatar” practice to basically ignore the specifics that you’re using a text medium, and instead comment in the way that most accurately represents how the character in question usually communicates in the work in question. So if you were commenting as Discworld’s Death for instance, you would comment in all caps and preferably change your font if possible, even though The Voice would obviously not transfer to text if Death were actually posting in a comments section.
Returning to the question of “how many hero’s in this comic?” More than you would think. Joyce, obviously. Sal who we’ve recently seen in action catching Amazigirl. The room-mate with the baseball bat was pretty heroic. And Mike will always be *my* hero.
Probably others as well. Ex-cheerleader, problem solving heros who save peoples lives. Heros who attack their girl-friends massive abusive gun-wielding father with their bare claws. Lot of heros.
She feels that Danny’s too good for Amber, that Amber’s a worthless person, but Amazi-girl needs someone like Danny and they go together well. That Amber doesn’t deserve him (she proves it by exploding like this and saying “This is why”).
Why are you doing this to us Willis all this sad we can’t handle it!
What’s going to happen 🙁
Yes i think what you said is why she is acting like this. I know with how much I %#@%#@ing hate myself and wish i could get away from myself and such if anyone speaks well of me I feel like they are lying and if someone tried to kiss me…… I would freak out and run because of how much I wouldn’t be able to understand why anyone would want to do that….. with me.
She’s also said (sometimes implicitly and sometimes explicitly) that she is jealous of Amazi-girl. I don’t have too much experience with jealous girls, but I’d say this is spot on for how she’s acting. She wishes so badly that she could be Amazi-girl but she can’t. She (Amber) has seperated herself from the wonderful person SHE (Amazi-girl) is and decided that what’s left deserves to be thrown away in the name of the greater good… Danny’s happiness with his super-girlfriend and the peoples’ safety with under their hero’s watch.
…I just realised. Maybe “That Perfect Girl” is Amazi-girl. The perfect image that Amber can’t stand up to. I’m making a little assumption here, though.
College was an opportunity for her to redefine “Amber O’Malley” as whatever she would want her to be. Unfortunately, she sees that identity as completely worthless and unsalvageable, undeserving of anything nice that may come her way. Thus Amazi-Girl was created as her personality reboot.
Danny only sees one person in front of him. He thinks Amazi-Girl is just a costume Amber wears, but she’s trying her damndest to compartmentalize both identities. It’s unlikely this difference in perception can be reconciled, especially after today.
I think, perhaps, there was also an inversion in logic when she took up a costumed identity.
Usually, wearing a mask to fight crime is a means of protecting those around you from people seeking revenge (and also to keep from getting arrested for vigilantism, but let’s keep things in the fictional realm, here!).
Amber has chosen the masked life because it protects her from the actions of other people.
This will hinder her attempts to be a heroine, because she’s making the actions of criminals all about her.
In short, she’s kind of a self-destructive narcissist…
I think the masked life protects other people from HER. Amber doesn’t know how to be angry in a not unhealthy way; Amazi-Girl does. Amazig-Girl’s anger is righteous!
Amazigirl also protects Amber from Amber’s rage. And having Amazigirl as a crutch allows Amber to be amazing. You say it isn’t healthy, and yet paradoxically it may be more healthy than the obvious alternative.
It’s actually interesting to see the progression of how she views her identities. At first it seemed she liked Amber and Amazi-Girl was where she was dumping her unwanted emotions but then first Danny came along and gave Amazi-Girl a side she wasn’t supposed to have and then Blaine showed up and Amber broke and Amazi-Girl became her strong side that she was dependent on.
Yeah, but maybe it’s kind of always been the same. In general, Amazi-girl has been happier and more relaxed, while Amber has always been lonely and miserable. Watch a scene with Amazi-girl and she’s happy, or proud, or at least badass in the midst of bad things, but watch a scene with Amber and she’s talking about her old or new problems, or she’s turning away from her friends, or doing something that she regrets. The time that she was happiest as Amber was when she made Danny pretend to his parents that she was his girlfriend. He said words that made her feel wonderful. I’m worried that she won’t ever let anything like that happen to her ever again.
Amber doesn’t just have anger issues (though she does); she’s also a proto-abuser. Her anger at Danny today is decidedly Blainian. She’s aware of the problem, which is one of the reasons why she only wants to date Danny as AG – that persona doesn’t have the same abusive tendancies for whatever reason.
He’s incapable of fixing her but there’s no way he’s just going to leave and let her sort her own shit out.
It’s been made painfully clear to Danny these last few strips how big Amber’s problems really are, and how little he understood that. He’s going to want to help her in any way he can, and drive her into seeking help.
Yeah, I think Danny would be well justified in leaving for his own sake, but at the same time I think he’s too self-sacrificing to do so. He’s hurt, she just hurt him badly, but I think he’s likely to blame himself, and pour of a lot his energy into trying to make it up to her, and help her, because she needs help desperately and he can see that. Unfortunately, the level of help she needs is beyond his ability to provide, he’s not a psychologist, he’s a kid. 🙁
This is looking more and more like a relationship that’s going to cause more damage than good to the participants.
You could have put a period after DoA. But yeah, as long as you add, “in the long run.” There are strong reasons for thinking that Ruth/Billie, Amber/Danny and even Dorothy/Walky are eventually just not going to work. But in the short run they jewels of dysfunctional beauty that give emotional support and meaning to those that need them.
well yeah, i dont believe for a second hes actually going to leave her. but hed be entirely justified if he did and suggesting he *should* stay is not at all right
Agreed. Staying to support her is possible and is not bad on its own, but I don’t think he knows how to do that without being self-sacrificing about it.
Right.
Well, don’t worry about Dan. He knows how to cover his ass.
He had no problem dumping Amber when he figured out how to hook up with Amazi-girl – before he knew they were the same.
And she was on the point of suicide at that time, and he just turned his back to go running after his super hero.
Then too, he’s been doing a great job feeding her phycosis by asking her to keep the mask on when they have sex. And by playing along with the secret identity thing.
He’s helped her get where she is, so yup, best thing to do now is run out on her again. No, he is not to blame, her problems started way back when. But if he cared, he’d stay to help, or get her help.
What’s your problem here? As far as he knows, this is just a cute roleplaying thing Amber does. Obviously he’s realizing that’s not true now, but you’re being waaaaay too hard on Danny.
Also, he didn’t ‘dump amber’. He didn’t know Amazi-Girl WAS Amber, and Amber came onto him in a really weird way, like, ‘this is creeper-stalker level’ way. He was justified in keeping space from her, and just because YOU, the reader, knows the whole story, doesn’t mean he does, such as her being on a verge of suicide. Danny’s just Danny, he’s not a mind-reader.
Except that a lot of those thing were clearly things she had asked him to do. Respecting her stated boundaries doesn’t make him a terrible person.
And it’s literally not his job to stay and help or to get her help. The only way he could force her to accept help is to somehow get her forcibly institutionalized, and since all institutions are literally just houses that make money while neglecting and abusing their patients, that wouldn’t help her. He is also not her therapist and cannot be her therapist for her.
If he had to leave her because it was hurting himself, that wouldn’t make him a bad person. That would make the situation tragic.
Hey dude, not true. I recovered my sanity in one of those deeeeadly “institutions”. If I had not been a 5150 and forced to go to a hospital, I would have died from suicide. Chill. Not all hospitals are out to get you. They’re trying to help you. Amber DESPERATELY needs to be admitted. She is literally a threat to herself and others. She needs medications and therapy.
Sadly, a lot of people’s distrust of hospitals is horribly justified. Probably far fewer than the baseless phobias, but still enough to be concerning.
That said, I’d still say it’s better to err on the side of assuming highly trained professionals can do their jobs.
That’s the quandry. If 49% of hospitals and doctors were dirty, that would mean the system is horrifically corrupt and totally dangerous and not to be trusted. Heck even 10% is far too high. On the other hand, 49% corrupt means that 51% still do their job properly.
On one hand, there is just no substitute for profesional medical care. Even relying on amatuer healers and folk remedies still exposes you to a high percentage of frauds and fake cures… probably even higher than anything in the profesional field.
On the other hand, who wants to play russian roullete with their treatment??? Saying 90% of doctors are good people is like saying russian roullete only has 1 bullet out of 6 chambers… it’s still terrifying odds.
…
I’m in almost the same situation as Pippy. Proper treatment saved me from destroying my life.
ON THE OTHER HAND, it took me several years to find a doctor who gave me the correct diagnosis! So, yeah, I know the feeling of “this is useless, no one can help me, these guys just want money and don’t help me….”
Even if they’re trying to help you doesn’t mean they’re not traumatic and do harm along with their good.
I got into treatment off of an involuntary as well. Did I need treatment? Yes (which a stint off of my meds during a breakdown established). Was the hospital the best option? My involuntary admission was incredibly, incredibly traumatic for me, to the point where reading a detailed but intentionally nonthreatening description of an inpatient psychiatric setting has caused disassociation (which is something I have never experienced to my knowledge in any other context). My fear of ever returning has also damaged my ability to be honest and trustful of a therapist in any matters that could even distantly be related to suicidal ideation.
Additionally, I had the rather Kafkaesque experience of, after my 3-day involuntary hold ended, being coerced into voluntarily admitting myself under the threat of a possible monthlong involuntary hold, which rather contradicts the notion of it being voluntary. I suspect that their motivation in keeping me there had to do with their ability to continue to collect payments from my insurance.
I’m glad you had a good experience Pippy. But please understand that it is by no means universal.
Wow, this got long. And incredibly personal. I’m not sure I’ve ever shared this much of it openly. Sorry about that.
Thank you for sharing. As someone constantly on the cusp of admittance, I would hate for something like that to happen. I’m sorry your experience was so traumatic and I hope you recover!
I *hate* the whole “if you do not voluntarily commit yourself we will involuntarily do it and make everything even longer and worse for you for the trouble” thing, and I’m sad to see that my experience was not at all unique on that front.
I think to me, the involuntary nature of the thing – combined with the terrifying lack of autonomy you have once you have been committed – make this wholly different than even the more generic hospital example given above. At least with other illnesses you can weigh the risks of ending up in the 49% of bad hospitals and choose whether to pursue treatment in the crummy system you have available.
With mental health, though, you have no choice in the matter…you could end up with a helpful experience as described above, or it could be more like mine: one where the 3 day involuntary is somehow finagled into almost a full week (arrival day doesn’t count, discharge day doesn’t count, weekends don’t count, etc), during which time you never once speak with a mental health professional except for a brief meeting where they attempt to bully you into voluntary commitment and every attempt to rationally, maturely take time to consider your options is labelled contrariness which can be used as further evidence to hold you against your will in the future.
Dina, thank you! What you wrote certainly made me feel better about my involuntary commitment at age 19. I attempted suicide. It is good to not feel alone.
Hospitals, doctors and medications are there to help us when we need it. But we, as patients, have to be proactive. You would have to take my medication out of my cold dead hands now that I finally have a “cocktail” that works. What made the difference for me was Lamictal, which is a mood stabilizer. I had the wrong diagnosis up until ten years ago.
It’s so tempting, but this is like the third time this week. Whatever Idontcarenomore’s problem with Danny is, it’s not going to be resolved by pointing out they’re making stuff up. (Amber was on the point of suicide? Huh. That one’s new, isn’t it?)
Wait Amber was at what point now? (Reads the OP, which I initially skipped because I kinda of guessed what it was about). Uh, that is a new assertion. Sometimes I wonder what comic OP is reading. Because it’s certainly not the comic I’m reading.
As Petra said, he didn’t “dump Amber to hook-up with Amazi-girl”, he refused to get any more involved with Amber when he was already dating Amazi-girl.
Since he learned they were the same person, he’s always been the one pushing to be with Amber, not just with Amazi-Girl.
Even with the “Mask or no Mask” thing, while the regular strips imply he responds “Mask”, even there in the follow-up strip, both Amazi-girl and Amber are there, still cuddling Danny. In the slipshine, it’s even more clear that she’s using the mask because she’s more comfortable that way
tchnically amber asked “Mask or no mask?” meaning she was fine either way, which implied she was more than willing to be “Amber” and not “Amazi-girl” in that moment.
So you can kinda understand why he’s confused since she’d be fine with sex without the mask, but not simple kissing.
The alt text for that strip says “That’s either an extremely loaded question, or merely a kinky one.” Danny probably thought it was the latter, because he had no idea the question could be anything else.
He’s not in love with her, he doesn’t even know her really. He likes what he thinks he understands about her. But being in a romantic relationship with someone this unstable is only going to make it worse. He shouldn’t abandon her completely but the relationship should end.
I’d say that Danny knows her pretty well, actually, more than anybody except for Ethan anyway. It’s just that he, you know, doesn’t have all the answers because Amber has major problems she’s been hiding, and like the idealistic dope that he is he just rolled with it and ate up every answer.
But now he knows that the third-person naming isn’t a cute dodge anymore, now he knows she’s not out taking care of the “bad guys”, now he knows that this hole runs deep, and he’s going to try and pull her out because that’s the kind of person he is.
I mentioned this already, but ending the relationship now would be a bad idea. It can’t continue as is, obviously, but Amber doesn’t need to be shut out from things just because she’s “cuh-razee”. She can get help and have a boyfriend who cares about her.
Are continuing as her boyfriend or abandonding her completely the only choices here? Could he not be a friend to her, thus avoiding the damage to both of them that an ongoing, potentially deepening, romance would cause?
Of course not, but I disagree that Danny can only cause her pain by dating her. Wouldn’t having Amazi-Girl’s boyfriend stick with her, and insist that she is actually worth it and a good person help her work through her self loathing?
I guess I don’t see the distinction between “Danny cares as a friend” and “Danny cares as a boyfriend.” Both are going to involve him trying to help.
I don’t think anybody claimed that dating her would ONLY cause her pain. I saw people suggesting that if the relationship becomes harmful to him that he might need to break up with her. That’s not the same thing.
And they are separate things because one involves being much more intimate with a person. Being a little more distant makes it easier to take care of oneself.
I understand what you’re saying but I feel like it’s a bit extreme. It implies that anyone sufficiently unstable from a neurological standpoint shouldn’t be in a relationship. And while I agree that relationships founded out of instability are cause for concern I wonder where the line is drawn where a person is healthy enough to be in a romantic relationship.
Is it when they only have one personality? Or when that personality ceases to be self destructive? Maybe it’s when the single personality stops putting up emotional barriers that keep the personality from bonding with other personalities.
My point is that mental health is a grey topic, and while people can certainly cause harm to each other by bonding while under the effects of psychological disorders they can also help each other. And telling people who are suffering psychological pain that they should be alone is a strange and possibly hurtful path to direct them down.
I was in a relationship with a person who was “unstable” (I don’t know why, but all the words to define mental illness sound… wrong when talking about him). It was hard, and towards the end I started to suffer from it, mentally. I wanted to do my best because I really loved that person, and he clearly loved me too. The relationship ended after some time in a pretty confused way (we had a fight, I said I was getting tired of feeling like I always had to be there for him, he got hurt, we both got hurt and decided to break it off).
We’re still friends now, though. We meet regularly and talk with each other and make jokes. It’s fun.
My point is… I don’t know. That relationship was certainly “harder” than any other I ever had, but I still remember it fondly – well, maybe not fondly, but I certainly have good memories associated with it -, and I think in the end it benefited both of us, especially since we managed to stay friends after all that had happened. I wouldn’t suggest anyone dates, I don’t know, a psychotic serial killer, but saying that mental instability should stop you from having romantic relationships is wrong; it is indeed difficult to decide at what point that instability becomes “too much”, though.
To be honest I remember reading somewhere that if you have a friend/spouse/partner etc. with depression or some other mental illness and you want to help and be there for them, you need to remember that the negative emotions, feelings and problems can often have an effect on yourself as well. And you should be sure to I guess “take breaks” (i dont remember the exact wording) since being exposed to it can often have an effect on you.
Obviously not to like abandon the person dealing with these problems but you should maybe not be trying to help 24/7. (the thing I read specifically spoke of depression but i think it can apply to other mental illnesses as well..)
Similiar to physical illnesses now that I think about it.
The longer your around someone with the flu the more likely you are to catch it.
And while you cant “catch” mental illness from another person, being around it can have a negative effect. Not to the effect to the actual person afflicted but you know what I mean
Now this could have been complete horseshit but from my experience it seems to be true.
No, you’re right. It’s the same whether you yourself are mentally ill or not, and it’s the same if what you’re involved with is something like activism or justice or social work. If you are constantly exposed to negative thoughts and emotions, be it a depressed loved one or a broken and unjust system you seek to fix, or anything really, you need breaks no matter what mental health state you yourself are in.
It wears you down. It eats at you. Everyone needs brain candy, or just time to themselves to recharge. Something.
Do we know they’re in love? Even if they’ve said they are, are they in love? I don’t want to put limits on Amber, bug given her current treatment of Danny it seems as though there’s a bit of non-love going on.
I feel safe in assuming so, if only because Danny doesn’t do things by half measures.
As for Amber, well, she definitely relies on him for support. She’s said as much. I think it’s too early to say either way with her but she definitely appreciates him.
It doesn’t have to be Joyce-O-Vision perfect love, but I think it’s clear they both care about each other a lot.
People who passioantely, completely love each other don’t always treat them well. They don’t always put them first, make good decisions, always keep all their anger and self-loathing in check… She could love him more than anyone else loves anyone else in the comic, and still snap at him and make him feel terrible.
Well, Willis did say Danny and Amber were doooooooomed because someone asked for them to stay together.
But wait.
That was less than a month ago, which means Willis has been planning this out.
Which means…
DAMN YOU WILLIS!!!!!!!
The face in the last panel actually looks like a very girly pleading “senpaaai~!” face like danny had in the last strip. But, man, talk about mood swings. She didn’t even need a realization panel. She went 0 to repentance in one.
Nah, I sit like he is in the 3rd panel all the time, it’s a fairly stable position. That said, she might have pushed him off, and then she berated him with terms and phrases that sound very Blaine-esque, which is very bad from her perspective.
Checking the last strip, where he was sitting was at the very edge of the wall already.
While it’s unclear here whether or not she pushed him away or leapt back herself, their original positions indicate it was her leaping back. Had she pushed him any measurable distance down the wall he would have fallen off.
Like I said, it’s a stable position. You have an entire denim-clad leg in contact with the surface, your other leg is in a perfect position to stop your movement in any of 3 directions, it’s going to be really hard to actually move Danny from there. She could easily have pushed him and gotten nowhere, then moved back as soon as she realized what she did.
I think that’s the point. She’s extremely afraid of becoming her father, which is why she compartmentalizes and pushes away from Danny. She has some of the angry and hostile traits of him, but in the last panel, she realized what she did.
Yeah this strip hit a nerve and reminded me of my ex. She called me a dumb c*nt and a b*tch several times in fits of anger, and I’d just be reduced to a crying, apologizing mess even if I didn’t do anything wrong.
Damn you, Willis, making me relate to Danny of all people
So if Amber is going the Paranoia Agent route, that leaves the important question: Who is Shonen Bat? Sarah, because bat? Carla, because skates? Or Mike because Redemptive Violence?
I find it hard to blame him for this. Whatever Amber thought she was telling Danny, it doesn’t sound simple at all. Especially since she’s flirted with him while being Amber when meeting his parents.
Thank you for this. She asks him to keep them separate, but that’s very unusual, and they flirt when she’s not in costume all the time. And she’s never really explained the depth of her compartmentalization.
He didn’t Dan it up. If Amber had been healthier, kissing her would’ve been a fine thing to do. This one’s on Amber having issues that are much too big for either of them.
While in general I completely, completely agree to this, the situation here is super weird. Danny thinks he and Amber are dating. Yes, Amber has told him multiple times that he is only dating AG, but to him that difference isnt stark. He prbbly doesnt consider AG and Amber as two separate people. And the fact that Amber does is extremely unhealthy.
To him, it was his girlfriend who went through extreme danger. Someone with whom he has already been physically and emotionally intimate. He got emotionally overwhelmed by the situations (and the self deprecation) she described. The kiss prbbly was a combination of “holy shit you are awesome” + “i am so so glad you are ok” + “dont treat yourself this way, you are awesome”. It was an emotional response, but he thought he was kissing his girlfriend and make her feel supported.
It is a valid point that surprise kisses are generally questionable from a consent point of view (though this one at least doesn’t have the compounding factor of intending to silence her, despite interrupting), but that isn’t what Amber is getting upset with here. She’s upset because he kissed Amber.
Scrolling down, I’ve learned that “dannying” has other definitions. I thought it was just being unjustifiably clueless, but “making things worse by trying to make them better” fits this situation too.
…it’s just that, in this case, his little bit of clueless is dwarfed by Amber’s whole lotta issues.
This is not Danny’s fault, he’s trying to be a compassionate boyfriend in the situation; he can’t be held responsible for Amber’s actions here. She’s got some serious fucking issues, issues that aren’t her fault, but, nonetheless, issues that obviously can cause he to behave in erratic and destructive ways towards herself and others. Dealing with that shit is not a job for a guy she’s been dating for a couple (days? weeks? hard to keep it straight) it’s a job for a psychologist.
In the past, he offered to break up with Amazi-Girl and be with Amber and she wasn’t entirely comfortable with that, basically because she likes Amazi-Girl more than she likes being Amber.
Am I the only one who really doesn’t like Amber? She reminds me of myself, just…more psychotically broken. I’m more of a depressed bundle of sarcasm and bitterness.
she is starting to remind me of myself. I have started to deal with my stuff….. oddly as well just not the way she does. for me I more try to shut off my emotions not split them up into two different versions of me.
I like Amber , But she does creep me out, to identity as her.
I had her icon for a long time.
At first i thought it was awesome. But It was soo long , I would see Ambers icon and think “thats me” .
Then I started noticing odd similarities , and they bugged me. But I didnt change it because , If I was just uncomfortable with a gender-flipped icon that resembled me , i thought I should grow out of it. But it just creeped me out more and more. I started obsessing over other ways I might secretly be like her, and it bothered me more and more.
Turns out , it really was just Amber. This icon looks even more like me ( if a young Pubescent me ) and I love it. No creepiness at all.
Probably not the only one, probably not for the same reason though.
I like Amber because she’s over all a good person even if I don’t always agree with her methods or with specific actions.
Other people may feel those actions cross too far a line for them.
But she is someone deserving of sympathy at least because her life sucks a lot of the time. Even if I don’t lay everything out, most of her life had Blaine in it and he’s pretty horrible. >w>;
amber’s a good person. she’s broken, but so is everybody. she’s not trained to deal with these problems the way she probably ought to, but she’s trying to be good and sometimes trying to be good makes you good. you just have to be serious about it, which i think anyone who sees what she puts herself through can agree with.
Because she’s Batman? Amber/Amazingirl is basically Willis’s deconstruction of Bruce Wayne, just with an abusive parent as the childhood trauma as the catalyst for her psychosis instead of “My parents are Dead!” Initially, we were all like, “cool, she’s Batman!” Now, on closer inspection there’s the realization that if you dress up in long underwear and a mask and beat the crap out of people, you may not be entirely stable. Bruce Wayne sure ain’t.
Did any Batman comics or movies make a serious deconstruction of Bruce Wayne’s coping mechanisms like that? I mean, the Batman isn’t (originally at least) a separate personality, but he could at least be compartmentalizing, and I’d love to see that explored… With how consumed he is with being the Batman, it feels like Bruce Wayne could potentially be just a public front, and effectively dead. If there is anything like that in new comics I just might get back into them. (As a kid I was reading / watching mostly classic 60s Batman, so it hadn’t reached it’s deconstruction phase yet)
Batman isn’t a separate personality because Batman is the only personality. It’s been said again and again that Bruce Wayne is a lie batman keeps up only for cover. Yes, over the years Batman has been dissected and it’s not a pretty picture, he’s ultimately never grown past the age o 8 years old. He’s a child pretending to be an adult, lashing out into the darkness, reliving the trauma of his loss again and again and pretending he can fix things. That’s why he keeps taking in children as wards, they’re the only people he can relate to on the same level. Even Superman and Wonder Woman don’t really get him, they want to, they want to be his friends but he can’t.
There were a bunch of cross company crossovers in the 90’s. One was a Batman/Punisher one shot. Frank Castle is confronting The Joker and The Joker tells him “Whatever happened to you happened when you were an adult. You picked up guns and started killing people. Hey, it’s psychotic, but it’s an adult reaction. Now Batman, whatever happened to him, happened when he was a child. He reacted the way a child would, dressing up and fighting crime.”
This is not the full deconstruction you were asking for, but it does point out that your idea is pretty true. (There might be a better moment in the comics, but I don’t follow them.)
Back in the 90’s I remember an exchange between Superman and Batman. The gist of it was, Superman is a costume Clark Kent puts on so he can help people and still have a personal private persona. He thinks of himself as Clark. Which holds up since Lois Lane outed him in the current continuity and he just goes by “Clark” now and seems mildly annoyed at being called “Superman”. In the same exchange, Batman basically says that Bruce Wayne is a front that allows him to be Batman. Bruce is an act, Batman is the real personality.
I guess I feel like, overall, you have Batman the dark avenger vs. Bruce Wayne the public front vs. Bruce the man who inhabits both of them. which is kind of a id vs. ego vs. superego kind of deal in some ways. it depends on the continuity whether you’re dealing with separate alters or separate personas, I think, though.
Just to complicate matters further, I’ve heard it said that “Bruce Wayne, dandy” and “The Batman, terror of criminals” are both masks worn for different purposes – the most real, most true, is the Bruce we see down in the cave, with the cowl off, doing the detective thing and interacting with his family.
There’s a big difference between her and Batman, in that, in most incarnations, Batman does not consider himself to be two different people. He considers his Bruce Wayne persona to be an act, but that’s different. He doesn’t think Bruce Wayne is his own person, he’s just a character Batman plays when not in costume.
Meanwhile, Amber seems to think she and Amazi-Girl are different people, which is not how secret identities work.
And I never really saw her as Batman. I saw her as a stupid teenager dressing up in a goofy costume to pretend to be a superhero, just because she had Daddy issues/Sal issues. At least Batman had actual crime to motivate him– his parents were murdered in front of him. Amber’s motivation is “My dad is a huge asshole and also I saw a robbery once”.
She’s a well written character, but I don’t like her.
She reminds me of myself too. I can relate to her. Not that I am proud of the qualities that make us similar, but I feel empathy for her, so in that way, I do like her.
Not a big fan of calling her psychotic. It’s pretty ableist. She isn’t experiencing psychosis and people who do are already stigmatized enough as it is.
what is the actual line for her experiencing psychosis. I don’t know, I’m genuinely asking. is there a specific set of symptoms that say psychosis as opposed to the unhinged behavior that amber is exhibiting?
I am looking it up, but I also figured we could probably start a dialogue here too. I was just trying to learn something new and gain a new understanding. Sometimes it’s helpful to learn these things from other people so you can compare it to the things you learn on your own and reach new perspectives.
I’m not familiar enough with psychosis myself to say concretely what exactly it is because I’ve never experienced it. It would be better to talk to people who actually do experience psychosis.
You say that as if you’re not talking to a “normal” person. Sorry my personal experiences with mental disease have left me unsympathetic to those who adamantly REFUSE to do anything positive in their lives.
Nice assumptions, bruh. From my point of view, Amber is a little psychotic. She’s not completely detached from reality, but there’s definitely some kind of disconnect.
I am starting to wonder if she actually has a split personality aspect to her psyche now or if it is a way for her to try to seperate herself from certain aspects of life now.
It seems to me that she still can and does consciously assume the Amazigirl persona, which she does in two main situations: When Amazigirl is called to be the hero (eg with the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit or Joyce asking for her help last chapter), or as a therapeutic escape from elements of Amber that scare her (such as when she put on the mask after punching Blaine in the hallway on Parents’ Weekend). After that red panel today, she may need more of the latter.
She also seems to undergo involuntary shifts into Amazigirl when confronted by reminders of her traumatic memories, especially Sal. This category is somewhat indistinguishable from the last one mentioned at times, as it’s hard to tell whether she is consciously or subconsciously becoming Amazigirl in such situations.
Except Sal has no idea what’s going on in Amber’s head, or the events that brought her to this point. Sal probably doesn’t have any deeper theory about Amazi-girl than that she’s some comic geek who’s gotten carried away with the idea of superheroes.
Amazi-girl tried to chase down a man in a car with a gun and a hostage, on a skateboard. Sal doesn’t really need a deeper understanding of her psyche to have a problem with that.
Still pretty sure the main causative factor there was butthole dad just deciding to stop driving it so he could climb out the friggin’ window while the car was in motion.
What makes you think Sal doesn’t get it? If you look at their histories they’re actually pretty similar. Years of parental neglect and abuse led to them acting out until they snapped.
I wasn’t mad at Sal for calling Amber out. I was mad at her for doing it in that self-righteous, condescending way. I was mad because Sal didn’t say anything that had even the slightest chance of helping Amber.
Sal expended just enough effort so that she could tell herself that she did good, and if Amber gets herself killed later then “oh well, serves her right.” It’s like patting yourself on the back for giving a bandaid to a gunshot victim: if that’s all you’re going to do then don’t fucking bother.
I disagree, because Sal had legitimate reason to think that Amber was antagonizing her, and because “I was mad because Sal didn’t say anything that had even the slightest chance of helping Amber”- Sal didn’t have to be a dick, but Sal also had no obligation to somehow help Amber.
agree with both of your points. I’m not mad at Sal because she didn’t try to help Amber. I’m mad at Sal because she pretended to try to help Amber. If Sal had just pointed out all the unprovoked crap Amber was putting her through, that would have been fine. But she didn’t. Sal chose to condescend to her instead. Eveyone wants to give Sal a huge pat on the back for scolding Amber and threatening her in ord to make Amber stop the superhero gig, even though it is PAINFULLY obvious that Sal DOESN’T know what Amber has been through, and giving Amber a self-righteous rant does NOTHING except let Sal feel better about herself.
“So was that slipshine me partially cheating on you? Was that a threesome? I need someone to re-establish the parameters of this relationship of ours.”
We’ve seen Amber wear the mask and costume; we’ve seen Amazi-Girl without it. I don’t think we’ve ever seen Amber do the voice, but we’ve certainly seen Amazi-Girl not use it. I think the only reliable indication of which of her she is, besides the character tags, is that Amber has cheek blushes and Amazi-Girl doesn’t. There are a couple strips where they come and go as she switches personae.
I mean, she lashed out because her compartmentalizing is being compromised, but there’s no doubt she uses this as just another example of why she is clearly the worst person ever.
Thank you ~ That sounds like what I was thinking, but it would have taken me a lot more words to express it.
Blaine’s not around to put her down anymore, but she’s still doing it for him. (That interpretation is colored by my own experiences, but that’s what I’m seeing)
Yeah, Amber’s problems didn’t go away when she defeated her supervillain. Blaine isn’t a permanent fixture in her life anymore, but the effects of his abuse are still there. Even if Amber could recognize it as sick and wrong and totally not her fault, she’s still left with a big empty void, and she has to start finding ways to healthily process her anger.
…. So… What,s going on? I’m getting less a “she’s broken” vibe and more a “dangerous manipulative psycho” vibe.
Mostly, lashing out and then apologizing.
She is dissociative, she recognizes that she IS Amazigirl, but she thinks of herself and Amazigirl as two different people. To her, there is a clear difference between herself and Amazigirl, they’re just not the same person. She has to consciously remind herself that they are the same person, so her kneejerk reaction is to act on feelings of betrayal, followed by the awareness that Danny didn’t actually do anything wrong. The same way that she does, “Amazigirl – me,” because she has to stop and remind herself they’re the same person.
But, yes, this is still dangerous and abusive territory. It’s learned behavior which she needs to overcome because calling your loved ones stupid is not appropriate behavior. It’s just not. She needs therapy to overcome her trauma and learn how to react to others appropriately.
I think that’s it. She’s balancing dangerously on the line here and I think she’s aware of that, but her reaction is to feel a deep sense of shame and self-loathing for it. Which isn’t really going to help her, I think that feeds into her compartmentalization more. However, she has realized almost immediately that she stepped over a line, it looks like, which is promising and shows that she could still try not to go down that path.
A lot of it, I think, is that most people don’t really grow up with any real example of what a healthy relationship looks like. I know I didn’t for all of my childhood. In the media, most relationships are either the goal of the arc that ends the story (so we never see the relationship, really) or condone abusive behaviors like stalking and manipulation. So I think part of it is that she knows what she just did is wrong, but what is the right thing instead?
It’s not abusive, people should stop throwing this word around. She’s not trying to manipulate Danny or exert power over him. She’s acting on kneejerk reactions, yes, it’s not good, it might be toxic for their relationship, but she’s not being abusive.
This “mental illness = abuse” trope needs to die a quick but painful death.
I’m 100000% with you on the “mental illness=abuse” thing. We need to nip that in the bud, it’s ableist and wrong. However, she’s still being abusive. Abuse comes in many forms; not just manipulation, but neglect, too, misusing your relationship, and very importantly, insulting, derogatory behavior. Not controlling your anger and throwing it at someone is abuse. She shouts at him and goes all red panel. She over-reacts. That’s abusive. Now, she realizes what’s happening, and immediately goes to apologize. The reason she’s so upset is because she understands she’s just been abusive. That doesn’t make her an abuser, but abuse is happening, if only for one panel. Not all abuse requires forethought. I would say most does not.
She’s not a bad person. She’s a person who really needs help. But needing help, being mentally ill, doesn’t mean you can’t be abusive. Those words are abuse.
Yep. ‘If someone has a mental illness, then they are abusive’ is a false statement. However, ‘If someone is abusive, then they do not have a mental illness’ is also a false statement.
Amber is obsessed with control. She is obsessed with controlling herself, and is becoming someone who controls others in order to do so.
If Danny dates Amber, he dates someone who realizes she doesn’t have that control. If he dates Amazi-Girl, she has that control.
Amber realized she lashed out and treated Danny unfairly because she has internalized Blaine’s emotional abuse, and dumped some of Blaine’s tactics on Danny.
If Amber doesn’t keep herself in check, she could become like Blaine. She realizes this and uses Amazi-Girl to do so. Danny is forcing her to take on the world as Amber, which is scary to her, so she pushes him away.
I don’t think any of them is capable of getting her to get herself help. And I think only Dina might be willing to tell someone at the school that Amber needs help. She strikes me as the “risk losing a friend to save the friend” type.
I think Ethan would, his coming out drama seems to have drowned out just how badly Amber is doing mentally so he’s not as aware of the damage as he should be. If he knew I’m sure he’d do whatever Amber needed to make her healthy and happy.
That’s also very dangerous, tho. To Amber, I mean. There have been colleges that kick people out of dorms for admitting that they’re depressed and dealing with suicidal thoughts because the school doesn’t actually want to help. Dina saying something could also get Amber forcibly institutionalized which would DEFINITELY not help her. There has literally never been an institution that isn’t mostly abusive to it’s patients. So that could easily be even more harmful.
there is a longstanding tradition of unforgiveable abuse in institutions, but i think it’s a little hyperbolic to say that there has “literally never been an institution that isn’t mostly abusive to it’s patients.” because that simply isn’t true. there are institutions that are dedicated to care and protecting their patients, even thought they are all too few and far between.
Actually, it is true. I’ve been researching it. The problem with institutions is that they take away all the agency and autonomy of their patients and their oversight is minimal at best. Abuse is rampant because they have complete power over their patients, who are already marginalized on the basis of their disability. Very rarely do institutions ever get properly watched over and rarely are they held responsible for their crimes.
Professional therapy is why some of my favorite people are still alive. It sucks you had bad experiences, but you will no longer discourage seeking professional help on my website. Encouraging caution and constant evaluation is good, but vehemently attacking all kinds of professional help is absolutely not going to happen here any more. That kind of talk KILLS people. So, no. Stop.
I appreciate what you’re saying, I just can never bring myself to believe something that’s placed in such an absolute. especially since I have experience with Mental Health Institutes (both good ones and bad ones) and while the bad ones are terrible, there are good ones that exist. at least for a certain value of good. it’s never going to be a good place where people have to live forcibly for fear that they will hurt themselves or others, and it’s true that there isn’t a lot of oversight, but there are those that have oversight and built in protections and dedicated, caring staff. unfortunately it’s largely higher income institutions with patients who have nonviolent histories and dedicated families. it’s nowhere near a perfect system, and there’s still a lot of atrocity that can happen, but it’s a disservice to those who work to make the system better to say that it’s literally 100% corrupt and abusive.
Unless things get way, way worse, her getting institutionalized while being able to tell that there are issues, able to get to classes (or if it were relevant, work) and do basic self care is pretty unlikely. Maybe a brief inpatient stay if something happens and then therapy.
Also, is IU one of those schools? I get that what you’re saying is true, but there are also a lot of schools that do care about student mental health.
I don’t know if IU is one of those schools, but I haven’t had any reason to trust most colleges myself. And how would one even research that? I’d be too afraid to risk it, especially since her alternative if she gets thrown out of the dorms might be homelessness or moving back with her father.
Two years ago when I started therapy while at school, there were doctors in employ of the school who I saw. What sort of schools are you attending/have you heard of that kick out students over mental health problems?
When I started therapy at school, it was a school with a counseling centre, therapists, and all that jazz. I had to get a therapist from the community because the school’s therapists didn’t do long-term treatment.
There was a student my senior year who, from what I heard, got kicked out for mental health reasons. Additionally, trying to push someone to take a leave of absence can end up sounding a lot like ‘leave and never come back’.
Okay, that’s twice in this thread that you’ve said that ALL mental institutions are corrupt and abusive. This is demonstrably untrue. Some certainly are, but it’s not even close to all of them. The one I was in after my suicide attempt was amazing. The staff was very dedicated and proactive about helping. Most of the patients were nice, friendly people going through a really rough patch. The partial hospitalization (which is basically an institution where you get to go home after eight hours; the closed ward is one hall over and shares staff and resources) I went to in a different city was the same experience, but with an upper limit on how rough a patch you were currently in. Several other people in the comments have also noted personal experiences with good mental institutions.
It’s attitudes like yours that stop people from getting help before the point where they need to be involuntarily committed. I hid my symptoms specifically because I was afraid of it. So please at least stop being hyperbolically inaccurate with your opinion.
They had a fine relationship for a few years, until Dorothy broke up with him in college because they wanted different things. With their relationship still being good enough for Danny to feel comfortable with telling Dorothy he’s bi.
Dorothy broke up with Danny when she left for college. But he didn’t take the hint seriously and followed her to college. He tried to keep the relationship going.
Dorothy had to get harsh with him: told him flat out she was heading for the Ivy league and presidency and he would never get the grades as he hadn’t the drive. And she had no plans to continue a relationship with him and thought he knew it.
So then he knew it. She was a bit cold blooded but she did not try to hurt him on purpose. She has a goal.
Then Walky kinda side tracked her for awhile.
Which makes me wonder, how is Walky handling his first time ever failing grades at this time.
Dorothy broke with Danny in college, they were a thing until she realized Danny was making all his decisions based on her and where she was going and then he suggested she might want to stay after a while, she broke the relationship in that instant.
Holy shit. Someone get this girl some medical attention asap. This is really scary and she needs to talk to a doctor or she’s gonna end up hurting someone and/or herself. #SaveAmber2k16.
this always struck me as a dumb rule. I know that it has more to do with her own insecurities at this point, but why couldn’t he just date her and if anybody asks about amazi-girl say that he broke up with her, or more believably that he lied about the whole thing. who knows about his relationship with amazi-girl? Joe? doesn’t believe him and could probably keep a secret. Dorothy? in on the whole thing. Dina? in on the whole thing. billie? already thinks he’s nuts and that sal is amazi-girl so what’s the problem? I guess he wouldn’t want to be thought of as a liar, but it’s a little bit of embarrassment for the sake of being able to openly date the woman you love who you can’t date right now because you’re such an oblivious dork. I feel like this was addressed at one point but i don’t recall when or where in the archives.
Because Amber is a terrible person, a useless coward, and just generally shit. Only the cool, awesome, badass superhero who saves the day gets to have the nice boyfriend.
yeah, like i said, i know it’s really about amber not trusting herself in a stable relationship as is clearly demonstrated in today’s comic; i was just wondering if there was some actual logistic issue that i missed. Amber’s gonna get it together eventually and realize that she is good. Amazi-girl is good and she is amazi-girl, no matter what she says. then we can focus on Danny’s emerging sexual identity crisis.
Not so simple for Amber to do! Her longterm self-esteem problems are pretty crippling these days. It’s gonna take a whole lot of tough therapy for her to accept that she’s a good person and worth dating for her own merits, that everything she likes about Amazi-Girl came from her, too, that she’s not the terrible failure that she internalized from her entire childhood with Blaine. It’s not a logistics question, it’s one of changing her whole self-narrative, and that’s way tougher. Possible! But tougher.
no you don’t understand, it is exactly a logistics question that i am asking. I am wondering if i am missing plot information and am trying to figure out if it explains, outside of the very obvious mental issues that will not be easily solved and regardless of where you think the story will go, whether or not there is a logistical barrier to their being together because i’m not seeing it outside of the mental issues thing. It would help reinforce this part of the story for me, that’s all. I’m asking a very straightforward question that requires no examination of amber’s psyche at all.
did she ask danny to choose? i remember him making his own choice in that regard and her just kind of rolling with it. He is the most oblivious oblivioid in all of obliviville after all.
Not explicitly, but she was late meeting him as Amazigirl, and showed up as Amber instead, and later spelled out that Amazigirl’s a construct, not a real person. I could be wrong, but in my mind, that was her presenting him with a choice, and perceiving him choosing Amazigirl, regardless of whether or not he knew the choice existed.
this is the internet damnit, stop being so polite and reasonable when someone doesn’t fully grok ur query. I think the anwer is “no not really” but don’t trust a guy who thinks he forgot his keys att work despite already driving home in a car that requires said keys…
Oh and Ethan: in on the whole thing. It’s not like they have super big social circles. they don’t even have that many strong connections among the core group and it’s not like they have many outside friendships. I think they put way too much thought into this.
Okay, Amber is not in a reasonable or stable place mentally and emotionally. She’s dividing her personality traits between her personas but needs to keep them divided to feel some sort of stable. Danny does not understand this, neither does anyone else but he’s the only one she’s interacting with on an emotionally intimate level. So Danny keeps crossing her emotional lines and she can’t handle that.
yeah, no, totally she needs help, and danny isn’t the one to give it to her, but in a vaccuum, without those issues, is there a realistic logistical barrier to them being together that could not be reasonably circumvented? that is what i am really trying to figure out.
She said back when he first figured it out that if he dates Amber as well as Amazi-girl (or goes straight from dating AG to Amber) that they look similar enough that it will out her secret identity.
It’s the same reason she doesn’t wear AG’s hair, even though she likes it way better than the haircut she has now. She would love to wear AG’s hair all the time; but too many people are figuring out who she is, and if the wrong people (administration, the police) figure it out she could be in real trouble.
Danny already suggested that he dump AG and just date Amber some time ago, but she nixed the idea on those grounds.
–The bright side of that, though, being that he was willing to dump AG in order to date Amber. Which is a positive thing for Amber.
I appreciate you answering the question, but the thee part of my original post was laying out all the reasons I think that’s not really a danger. I think my conclusion is that the actual danger of her identity getting exposed (at least through this particular avenue) is minimal, but she probably sees it as a bigger deal than it is because of her issues and how nice it is to be able to control the emotional input of your life like that. Danny, for his part, is too wishy washy and oblivious to realize that there is very little danger in him dating amber and ignores the problem, at least until today. He seems to be realizing that this compartmentalization of amber’s life is not healthy and that it’s better that he try to be part of all of her life rather than just entwined in what is, admittedly a rather cool fantasy, but a fantasy nonetheless. Thank you for contributing to the discussion.
The real reason is because Amber sees herself as two different people, not one person who fights crime in a mask. This disassociation is what is fueling her actions now, and just choosing one piece of her over the other isn’t going to help either her or Danny. It could actually just make things worse, by making Amber feel that these two identities are interchangeable to Danny and that is obviously very upsetting for her.
In addition, I don’t think Amber sees herself as Amazigirl’s equal, and assumes that Danny deserves his superheroine girlfriend over the inadequate version she sees herself as.
What Amber needs is psychological help. She is the victim of abuse and trauma, which is manifesting in this split identity and her rage-filled outbursts. She recognizes both of these symptoms as unhealthy and I do believe there is honest effort to improve herself, but just knowing there is a problem doesn’t solve it. These kinds of issues are complicated, intricate, and can’t be ignored or simply avoided by switching a name.
Her psychological issues have to be addressed when discussing options to help her move forward, though. The logistics are fine if Danny dates Amber. The logistics are fine if Danny dates them both, but only talks about Amber. The problem is that Amber’s psychological state does not allow for these options.
okay, that’s all i wanted to know. If there were some logical reason why it would jeopardize Amber and/or Amazi-girl and/or Danny, than that would go a long way towards solidifying the story for me. it’s still a great story. It’s just a personal preference of mine that i was looking for clarification on. wasn’t trying to start a debate about Amber’s mental faculties.
I apologize if i have been unclear. I am not making any kind of statement, I am asking a question. is there a barrier to their relationship apart from amber’s obvious and serious mental issues? pertaining specifically to her superhero identity and the risk of her being discovered. I’m not interested in anything else. I know she has issues and she desperately needs to address them. I’m not talking about those right now. I hope that clears up what i was trying to say. if not then i have no other ideas on how to make it clearer. i’m sorry.
um. I think that the issues are the barrier. Amber thinks that Danny dating both Amber and Amazigirl would hurt her secret identity; I think that she thinks that because she was already beginning to separate Amber and Amazi-girl as alters, and couldn’t deal with the cognitive dissonance. It’s not like Danny dating Amazigirl was something he posted on Facebook or something?? unless that is something I missed.
it is a typical superhero genre thing where the love interest can only date the mask or the person, re: Lois Lane, etc. this is sort of reconceptualizing that though.
tl;dr the major barrier to Danny and Amber’s relationship right now is the Amber/Amazigirl split.
but the secret identity trope has always been goofy. it’s not like it ever did what it was supposed to do for spider-man, or like it prevented peter parker and mary jane from getting together. it caused a lot of drama, sure but i always thought it was easily resolvable drama that could be solved by talking it through. obviously in this case that’s more difficult given all Amber is going through and her determination to not constructively talk about it. very few people would notice or care if he were to start dating amber is all i’m saying. i know there are other hurdles to overcome but that one seems pretty surmountable.
As far as logistics go… One thing: a better question phrase might have been “if it weren’t for Amber’s current emotional issues, would there be any other reason Danny can’t date both of them or just Amber?” I think people just got side-tracked about what you were trying to ask, is all.
I don’t think there’s much that stands in their way besides her emotional issues. Danny doesn’t understand all the factors, I think, so it hasn’t occurred to him to suggest otherwise. (I think.)
Also they’re young adults and might be more likely to slip up and reveal her secret identity, but I don’t think that would occur to them anyways.
thank you. I admit, i probably should have phrased my comments a little more clearly, but i think there’s also an element of people being a little over-eager to start an argument or prove a point. i know it’s the internet, but still.
Danny actually suggested breaking up with Amazi-girl and dating Amber, soon after he found out, but she vetoed it.
Danny doesn’t understand all the issues, but he’s consistently been pushing towards “I want to date Amber, not just Amazi-girl” – yesterday’s kiss is just part of that.
As for logistics, any secrets are more likely to be blown by Amber & Danny acting like a couple when they’re officially not, than by some staged breakup with Amazi-girl.
That’s what I thought. I thought amber had vetoed it, but I had forgotten the specific scene in which it happened. it seemed like for reasons which could probably be easily circumvented if not for the barrier her mental issues constituted. Thanks.
Children of abusive parents have to be really careful not to grow up to be abusers themselves. That takes a lot of therapy that I’m betting Amber isn’t getting.
Y’all, she’s flipping out because Danny kissed her in PUBLIC out of costume. He just “Pass the mustard, Batman”‘ed her. It’s not a case of Amazi-Girl being vindictive towards Amber for stealin’ her man or anything like that.
Now, the rage, abusive behavior, and need to establish control that mirrors her father’s in that red panel? THOSE you should be concerned about.
I just see a lot of “oh shit, Amber’s getting all dissociative identity on us!” above and, like. Look. I get that Amazi-Girl is her attempt to compartmentalize the shitty stuff bouncing around in her head that comes from being an abuse survivor, but I’m pretty sure the takeaway message of this strip is less “Amber thinks she and Amazi-Girl are different people” and more “Amber learned more from Blaine than she’s comfortable with.”
No, she isn’t. That’s what Danny thought was the problem. The problem is that it’s not just about convincing other people Amber and Amazi-Girl are separate; it’s about convincing herself of that. That’s why her behaviors started crashing into each other.
I think it’s more of a case of her needing to keep things separate. She compartmentalises a lot and now there’s a major part of her life that overlaps all these things and completely fucking shit up. Out comes the monster.
If that were all, the fact that no-one uses windows anymore would have been a mitigating factor. Come to think about it, she didn’t exactly compartmentalize those acrobatics.
That panel 4 was my nightmare scenario growing up. The thing I was so worried would one day happen with my terrible “affliction” of DID (I was a dramatic kid sometimes) that I did a whole bunch of bad coping strategies with my mental health for a good couple of years.
Amber there. Amber has crossed her internal line and she’s going to take that hard and unhealthily, justifying the worst of her coping strategies in self-injury and deepening the dissociation between her Amber and Amazi-girl alters and certainly guilt complexes.
And well, it’s easy to see why. Panel 4 is her channeling a lot of Blaine and echoing a lot of Danny’s parents. That Panel 5 look in his eyes is the sad scared kid who (in his mind) will never be seen as something to be proud of by his parents or his romantic partners. And it’s because Panel 4 Amber is dipping into emotional abusive behavior (very briefly and caught quick enough to not be fully abusive, but still…). She’s not trying to just rebuke him here, she’s trying to tear him apart and force him (very briefly) into a role where he knows his place with regards to reinforcing her unhealthy coping strategy for her DID. And it’s good she recognizes it and is likely going to flee from said behavior and it probably won’t (hopefully) become a running theme for her, but she’s also learning all the wrong lessons.
She’s convincing herself in Panel 6 that Amber needs to be denied joy and happiness and confidence, that she must wallow in her pain and her past abuse in order to protect. And well, that’s an easy trap to fall into when you have a “scary” alter in your head… up until the point you realize that that “scary” alter isn’t as scary as you think and might be a repository of some very important feelings (I mean, I know why Amber is scared of her anger and her pain, but they are a part of her and well… yeah, she’s been through Hell and suffered a lot of crap, she’s going to need to let that anger not in the unfocused haze of Amazi-girl or undirected like this, but as a bitter acknowledgment of what was messed up in how she was treated and in circumstance and in acceptance that that is an emotion she is allowed to feel and have access to).
Overall, it’s a heart-breaking tableau, because I’ve been where she is and I know that the path she’s running down in her blind panic is the one with all the hungry alligators and quicksand pits.
And she’s going to try and run from this -that’s what Amber does, when she can, it seems. And he’s either going to freeze, or chase her -and if he catches up to her, or grabs her arm -touches her at all, really, is there ANY chance she’s not going to snap and hurt him? Even if it’s pure reflex…
It is interesting to see it going from that angle, of managing identities and a fear of being found out/the extent of the isue being uncovered. My ex has did and she wasn’t aware of it until after we had been toether a few months. but once she realied what it was and told me, I realized this was not something new, she had been living with it for who knows how long. So for us it was very much the opposite where she had to reconcile her understanding of her life ith the notion of “me hasn’t always been me”. And that all that missing time in her life wasn’t just from the dtinking but rather from her handing off the wheel to a copilot she didn’t (but kinda did) know was there. It didn’t help just how petty and violent her alter tended to be either, but there always a way to manage anhting. Its just a shame this is the one time Willis time is infintily faster than normal time. I don’t think she ever popped between identies that fast, but man there were times I wish she did.
I haven’t seen her muchh since she got married but it was amaing for her us myych putting a name to what was going on helped to get our heads wrapped around things. Shame we couldn’t work the rest of our lives out.
This said everything I wanted to say! (Altho I’m not sure if she definitely has DID or not, partly cuz I don’t know much about it, but it fits what you’re saying about it.) But ALL OF WHAT YOU SAID. YES.
It’s theoretically possible, but my guess this is the Amber alter (which makes it worse) responding knee-jerk to the toxicity that has been dumped on her. Though this might be personal bias as I have an alter who gets internally abusive and will repeat the toxicity I’ve absorbed against the other alters (we’re making a lot of progress on this one, right now) so I can easily see this being an external version of that where in her panic she reflexively reached for something Blaine had said to her.
If that’s the case, then Amber the alter is going to take it hard, because Amber the whole person* has a very strong belief that Amber the alter shouldn’t be allowed X emotions to keep things like this from happening (which is 100%, in my experience, the opposite from the way to healthily handle this issue) and this will just serve to reinforce it.
*Ah, Alters having the same name as the whole, otherwise known as when grammar takes up drinking.
Things might go his way occasionally if he could read warning signs in any way. They’ve been flashing in his face, brighter and louder with each day since this started and he’s missed almost all of them.
The problem is that his entire life is just one big flashing warning sign. Almost every single person he interacts with frequently is mentally unstable. It makes it hard to recognize what is normal.
… which “amost everyone” are you looking at? Amber and Ethan are the only ones I could really see there. I mean, I guess you could argue for Joe, but he’s not really unstable… just unpleasant.
I may be thinking of a different kiss, but I thought that was more a despite feeling guilty and Amber being there thing than a to make Amber feel shitty thing.
timemonkey (can’t reply to you, so putting this on me), if I’m thinking of the same panel (I think it’s slightly before Amber flips the table?), I interpreted his expression way different- more like uncomfortable and can’t take his eyes off Amber because he knows she’s watching, but we’d need word of Willis to say which of us is actually right.
he might not be a jerk, but he isn’t perfect. he, like joyce and walky, commits the sin of complacency. he assumes that things will work out when he takes very few steps to make good things happen for himself. don’t get me wrong, in his last few appearances he’s shown some good growth, but there were a lot of opportunities for it before that he never rose to. he needs to learn to examine the situations that arise in his life and act on them rather than merely reacting. it’s hard for anyone to do.
Schizo Amber comes to call and it ain’t pretty. Popping your cork at your boyfriend is no way to further a relationship, hon. Walk away slowly, Danno, just walk away. At least you got some.
That seems super unlikely. Danny is tremendously loyal. He is too sheltered to know what to do (get her help!), but he’s not gonna dump her for having problems, either.
–even though those problems cause her to be emotionally/verbally abusive. Not trying to downplay that; she almost pushed him off the dang wall just then. I’m just saying, Danny has never dumped anyone and he’s not gonna start today.
And this is exactly why I’ve always hated this pairing. Amber needs love and support and help, not a boyfriend. Especially not a boyfriend who doesn’t have the slightest clue about her issues and is so acomidating as to actually live according to her messed up terms. I don’t want him to abandon her but I do want the romantic side to end and end asap.
One would think being her boyfriend would put him in a good position to give her love and support! Besides, very few people are qualified to help Amber, let alone dopey, overly romantic teenagers/.
And on a side note, I disagree with the idea that Amber “doesn’t need a boyfriend right now.” Yeah, the fun is over, and the painful reality has become clear, but it’s not like Danny’s going to give up on her. He loves her and he’s going to try to help.
I had a much much longer post in response to this but the site ate it. So I’ll sum up instead. Amber is currently too unstable to be anyone’s girlfriend, she literally can’t do any of the emotional things a relationship requires. Danny can’t be her boyfriend because he’ll only make things worse while trying to help and in doing so will be in danger of physical and verbal violence.
Amber yelled at him and then nearly burst into tears. Danny’s not in any danger.
I definitely think that not only can they not continue as is, but that Danny needs to severely reevaluate what Amber means to him and what he can do for her, and I think with what he’s seen today he’ll realize that something actually has to be done, but it’d be really shitty if the moral of the story was “having mental problems means you’re TOO CRAZY to love somebody, and you must be this sufficiently normal before you’re allowed.”
“You’re too shitty to deserve happiness” is essentially the sentiment that Amber beats herself up with, and kind of exactly why we’re here. I can’t imagine wanting to vindicate it.
Yeah, not what I said Willis. It would have been clearer in my original post but it was lost. I said she shouldn’t be in a romantic relationship in this state. She needs love and support to get better but that love and support should be of the platonic sort. She is not emotionally capable of reciprocating a romance right now. And Danny does not deserve the threat of emotional, verbal and physical abuse at all times if he steps on one of her triggers. It’s a simple sad fact that romantic love is not the solution tto all problems, saying ‘I love you’ and meaning will not fix problems like this. Amber needs help, not a boyfriend.
They should end it, get her the help she needs and then maybe try again.
I hear what you’re saying, Willis, but having a boyfriend is not the only way she can be happy. And not dating someone right NOW doesn’t mean she’ll never have a boyfriend again, either.
If I’m understanding correctly, it’s not at all a question of being a bad person. It’s more… how can you be happy with someone, how can you love someone, or trust them in a way that is safe and healthy for BOTH of you if you dislike and can’t respect or trust yourself? If you can’t be happy or at least content being yourself regardless of the other person’s presence in your life. Because in that case, it’s more like you’re hoping they’ll fix you than like you’re dating them. Amber needs love and support, but she shouldn’t be trying to support anyone else right now.
I’ve always thought “you can’t love anybody else if you can’t first love yourself” is pretty bullshit. There’s lots of times I don’t like myself, but I’m not about to annul my marriage every time it happens.
It’s a matter of degree, though. Part of my opinion on this is because I’ve seen friends get really badly hurt by trying to be the knight in shining armor for someone who just… couldn’t even see themselves as human, as worth anything. If you think of yourself as worthless scum, how can you trust your partner if they say anything positive about you? How can you respect them for choosing to be with you, and how do you feel secure in the relationship? I’m genuinely confused about this -it was among my reasons for not dating in high school, so more insight, if anyone’s willing, would be welcome.
Of course you can love other people if you don’t like yourself. But depending on the severity of the condition it’ll doom that relationship to ending badly. Not everyone is the same, it’s a matter of context. The way you’ve chosen to write Amber makes her not only self-loathing but also dangerous to others and THAT is the important part. If it was just a matter of depression or self-esteem then sure, a boyfriend would be fine, the love and support of a romantic partner would be good, but you’ve pushed Amber to a place where she’s a danger to others.
It’s true that “you can’t love anybody else if you can’t first love yourself” is bullshit. But you DO have to be capable of admitting that someone else might love you, and that they might have valid reasons for doing so. If you can’t, then you fall into the “You can’t possibly love me, I’m not worthy,” trap, which basically says that the other person isn’t competent to know who they love or why, and there is very little that can destroy a relationship as thoroughly as that.
What is that I hear Amber saying to Danny? That she’s not worthy of being loved? Hmm. Kind of a problem, there.
I’ve definitely dated while hating all that I am. I still loved them as much as they loved me. I didn’t understand why I mattered until a few years ago. Single and dependant on a partner to make me feel whole, I went through a ton of inner cleaning. I found out how to be on my own, how to appreciate the skills and talents I have (regardless on how good/bad I am), and to actually try fixing the flaws I was/became aware of.
At one point I told my friends the extent of how much I hated myself and thought they stuck around out of pity. They stuck around because they love me and they make sure I’m constantly reminded about that. I’m recently taken after 2 years of being single. My ex and I talked about it for a month before we decided to get together again. We know how to help each other through the bad thoughts and he helps me laugh away my jealousy.
I trust my loved ones with many things, why not trust their thoughts about me? I’m finally seeing what everyone else sees in me and I’m determined to keep improving. Being alone did help me jump-start a positive change but it hurt so much more. The last few months I’ve made so much more progress by having their support. I hope this gives you some sort of insight, I’m summing up a lot.
On re-reading, I think my post comes off as “if Danny and Amber break up it’s DEFINITELY because David Willis thinks less of people with mental health problems” so, I’m really sorry. That’s a super shitty thing for me to say, intent or not.
I should stop saying stupid things in the comments.
Hey, you have self awareness and that’s really important. We’re all allowed to say things that might not be great as long as we own up to them and that’s what you’re doing. Good job.
I don’t think Amber’s mental health is a reason Danny should break up with her.
I don’t think that a nonromantic and/or nonsexual relationship would necessarily be any healthier or any better of a way for Danny to support Amber.
I don’t know what the healthiest relationship would look like (in terms of what type, and whether it is with Amber, Amazigirl, or both), but it would be of the type that maximizes Danny’s ability to provide support and minimizes the odds and/or frequency of being of the receiving end of more red panels.
Given that this is Danny, I think any breakup that could possibly happen because of this would be Amazigirl pushing Danny away to ‘protect’ him from Amber.
I guess something I don’t get about the “Danny can help if they break up” argument is what makes it inherently healthier. I genuinely believe having “Amazi-Girl’s” boyfriend insist on being with Amber, showing her that Amber is somebody worth loving and supporting, would be way better than “I’m going to pull away from you because you’re crazy, but I might give you a call back if you cut it out.”
Like, it’d still be romantic, since they both seem to have pretty strong romantic feelings for one another either way. Danny’s not so stupid that he’d expect for things to remain exactly the same if he was trying to help her. I really doubt he thinks it’d be his presence alone that would heal her.
He’s not saying that being mentally unstable makes you unfit to love somebody, he’s saying that Amber, SPECIFICALLY, is not being a good girlfriend. Her multiple identities are actively getting in the way of Danny’s happiness at this point, so she either needs to figure shit out or end it.
I wasn’t expecting this comic to give an example of how a woman can be (nonphysically) abusive but here we are.
Abusive behavior is a perfectly good reason to break up with someone but I kind of want Danny to stay with Amber because she needs someone to support her…though really, she needs a therapist like last month :\
Knowing Dan, he’ll feel like it’s his duty or something to help her through this. It’s not your obligation Danny, though it will help her, you cannot take on this herculean task by yourseld
And everyone ignores the elephant in the room which is Danny’s need to be abused. Or maybe I’m over analyzing and depending too much on my interpretation of other-universe’s Danny with Joyce and Sal.
…there’s actually something to it, though. I wouldn’t go as far as to call it “a need to be abused”, but if you look at what we’ve seen from his various relationships (not just romantic, but platonic and familial as well), he does tend to gravitate toward people who walk all over him, take charge, habitually belittle him (with the exception of Ethan, from what I recall…but then again it might be the novelty of Ethan being a genuinely kind guy).
I don’t think it would be a stretch to say we’ve got his parents to thank for that…all the same, Danny seems to be used to the idea that his emotional wellbeing/safety is not a priority.
All that being said, I’m up way past my bedtime, so my coherency might leave a big to be desired.
I *really* want him to walk away, though. He’s great at doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, I’d like to see him do the difficult thing for the right reason.
Support is important, but he could still support her while essentially taking a break from the romantic/sexual side of their relationship. Support doesn’t have to come with romance and/or sex.
These days, most schools include a certain number of sessions with a staff counselor as part of tuition. It certainly was offered at the college I attended. Not everyone takes advantage of it.
Most (all?) have counsellors (and the ones I know divided career and emotional, although the emotional ones generally could also do school/career stuff since that’s a large source of the students’ stress), some even have school psychiatrists.
I think she needed it. It calmed her down.
Now, take her to her dorm room, tuck her in. And go find a competent adult to get that girl in a hospital room before she hurts herself, or someone else maybe.
Sometimes Danny does do the right thing. Sometimes.
Looks like he has realized that Amber is a sick girl: this is not a game: and I hope he goes talks to someone about this ….now. Obviously not her father: but a school councellor if need be. Someone that can do something and do it now.
Wait a minute. Does Amber actually have a split personality? Because I always thought the whole, Amber/Amazi-Girl thing was simply that she has a secret identity. (E.g. Bruce Wayne/Batman, Peter Parker/Spider-Man, etc.)
I assumed she feels she doesn’t deserve it. I wouldn’t say split personality but do you ever do anything on impulse and then realize part way through its not a good idea? She just ya know.. Over reacted x10
It could be interpreted either way at this point, I think, but most of the commenters have suggested that it’s intentional compartmentalizing as a coping strategy rather than a result of her neurotype.
Stemming off this, I’d say intentional (more than DID, although if it was a kind of DID that would be good to see explored), but way unhealthy and more compartmentalized than even the more disturbed runs of Bruce Wayne.
Dan, you idiot. You’re not qualified to help her break down those walls, and it’s not your responsibility or duty to bear the abuse that’s coming your way. Walk away.
I hope all the people who thought it’d be a great idea for Danny to tell Amber he has the hots for Ethan now realize why that would, in fact, be a really bad idea
I don’t think anyone thought it would be a good idea for him to say it that bluntly. I think if he hadn’t kissed her, it would still be not terrible to tell her “I think I’m bisexual,” once she had finished her trauma story and asked to hear his secret.
I guess i meant more the people who thought Danny could tell Amber about Ethan and she’d be all ok with it, like “oh can I watch” or some such nonsense
And now it’s all coming to the surface. From personal experience, I know that this is the hardest part to go through, and yet the most necessary to change anything.
Amber, GET A FUCKING THERAPIST (Well, get a therapist, they don’t need to fuck you, in fact it’s probably a bad idea if they do…but I digress)
For all those saying that Amber should seek psychological help?
Dissociative Identity Disorder — at least, given the full and total breadth of expertise with which skimming Wikipedia and the Dunning-Kruger Effect have gifted me — has no agreed-upon method of treatment and an all-around poor prognosis. There IS no help to be sought. What’s more, Amazi-Girl IS engaged in violent, criminal activity. With this, and with what happened to Blaine (and that WOULD have to come up, it’s critical to understanding the distinction between the two and what happens when that distinction breaks down), a psychiatrist might feel compelled to classify her as a threat to others and have her committed.
As a possible solution, though? Go back to yesterday when Amber’s talking about how Amazi-Girl manages to do everything. What happens if sets Amazi-Girl the task of fixing herself?
Well, it’s not really dissociative identity, is it? She’s retaining memories, can control when to switch, has a continuous sense of self, etc. It’s more like an elaborate system of rules or props that she uses to deal with her emotions, like
I don’t think she has DID, though. I believe DID involves the multiple personalities not really knowing about one another. In this case, she’s clearly able to jump between the two and she knows clearly what she’s doing.
I really think she needs some kind of professional help at this point to recover. I mean, I suppose it’s possible that she figures it out on her own, but it’s really hard to see yourself objectively enough to do it alone. And even with friends helping, it’s difficult, because it’s a very different sort of relationship than she would have with a therapist.
I haven’t kept up with wording and definition. MPD (multiple personality disorder) could be applied to people whose different personalities were able to communicate. As far as I remember, this ability to communicate was something therapy strived for if it wasn’t there. But very few therapist are able to successfully threat MPDs. There were organizations of MPDs who offered support, books and probably therapy recommendations. If you need help in that area, don’t go to the next available therapist in your area. Find someone especially competent!
Friends or loved ones can’t really do much. Not walking away already is much.
People suddenly asking you who you are and what you are doing in their car is not something you want to experience often
I always thought (despite having no psych classes now or in the past) that she was compartmentalizing those parts of her that she thinks make Amazi-Girl (the goodness, ability to affect the world, etc.) into Amazi-Girl.
She clearly has an illness, writing her off as ‘playing pretend’ is about the most harmful thing you could say here. She isn’t ‘playing pretend’, she is compelled to seperate herself into different personalities, she actually has no choice in the matter that she can control.
Well, she could very well be dissociating, and she definitely has some weird identity stuff going on, but dissociation has a very wide range and DID is the absolute extreme – I’m pretty sure it’s not what’s going on here.
I’m not worried about you hurting a fictional character – I said harmful, as in harmful to people with mental illnesses. What if someone with a DID-related illness, relating to Amber here (like I am), read your comment? “Oh, people will just say I’m pretending..”
I agree with you that I don’t think she has DID but she definitely has something and she definitely is not just pretending to compartmentalize her emotions. She isn’t choosing to do it. It’s outside of her control, because she is ill.
Everyone jumping straight to DID(formally MPD) is showing their lack of knowledge of the Personality Disorder spectrum. Like all mental illnesses it’s actually a scale sliced up into categorized illnesses. DID is outright seperate personalities with seperate memories (usually), but in some cases they can communicate and share memories. In this case though, I don’t think it’s DID. I think it’s something like BPD – Boarderline Personality Disorder. Another disorder on the same scale as DID. It has almost seperate-personality-like symptoms, as well as extreme emotional outbursts. I’m sure anyone on the Personality Disorder spectrum is relating to Amber right now.
nothing so complicated.. its likely PTSD. She compartmentalized the little girl in order to survive. Amizigirl isnt the daughter of dip shit.. Amber is.
Oh I totally agree that she has PTSD but that doesn’t mean it isn’t also BPD, you know? Extreme environments in our childhoods can cause the development of ‘complicated’ mental illnesses such as BPD, or even DID. You don’t have to be born with the illness to end up with it. Many people with DID weren’t born with DID, but went through something traumatic and ended up with DID. As I said these are all scales, they don’t fit well into categories like we try to put them into. Her PTSD is manifesting itself as a personality disorder such as BPD.
Even if she has DID and there isn’t a good treatment for her with it, she also needs trauma counselling and other psychiatric help. ‘See a therapist’ isn’t subtexted with ‘(unless one of the reasons is something they probably can’t help with).’
I heartily disagree with anyone who says Danny “Danned” this situation. This was not Danny being oblivious. This was Danny doing what under any other circumstances would have been a natural heartfelt gesture and getting beaten down for it because of crazy.
Now this. This would be Danning it up.
“So should I tell you about that secret fantasy I had about me and your ex now or…..?”
I don’t know if anyone said this, but like, five minutes ago she was doing Amazi-girl stuff. She was jumping around and acting like a super hero and said it was no big deal. Serious, at the start of this conversation, she dismissed his concerns about being seen as Amazi-Girl. It would have dropped his barriers even further about needed to compartmentalize as she did… maybe he can’t tell when she does or doesn’t have the blush, and has no way of knowing when she is or isn’t Amazi-Girl without the mask.
As much as I love Amber usually, she is really not in a good place to be in a relationship. She needs therapy. She’s dealing very poorly with past traumas and abuse. She’s taken her anger out on Danny several times in their fairly new relationship, and in this instance I can’t help but see her mirroring her father. It’s very disturbing. My heart hurts for her, but is being with Danny really what she needs to do at this point in her life?
Amber needs help. Danny needs to take some time off and re-evaluate some identity issues as well. This relationship is going about as well as a burning boat in the open ocean. I’m ready to see them break-up, whatever inane reason it ends up being.
I don’t think Danny is a bad thing for Amber, though. Seh need someone she can speak to and Danny is a good person for that. This relationship is the only thing that make Amber speak out.
I don’t really think Danny’s necessarily a bad thing for her, but more that Amber is hurting Danny.
The red panel up there? Yeah, also a huge red flag. Verbal abuse. Sounding like her father, even looking like him a bit. Even though she catches herself, she still lashed out in a way that is not acceptable.
She’s hurting more than she’s being helped, is the long and short of it.
Major double standard here. Amber can practice as Amazi-Girl, out of costume, without even a hint of confusion. Yet, one kiss and zip, conflict. I would think parkour shut in girl would be more threatening to her identity then necking on a nerd.
IF Danny decides that he’s in over his head, if he opts out from their relationship and tries to help her as a friend, or just as an ex instead (pretty much like Ethan), I wouldn’t fault him. Using a relationship as part of a healing process is INCREDIBLY hard and painful and there is no guarantee for success – or even that things will be better. Also, he only had the slightest idea what he was getting himself into.
BUT I don’t think he will opt out, not because – as I was afraid of – he is too afraid to assert himself to take the initiative to change anything in their relationship – but because he genuinely wants to help Amber, genuinely thinks he can do it, genuinely is prepared to put down the hard work and take the risk and – and that is important – genuinely think she is worth it.
Now he knows the stakes. He is still staying. It was so incredibly important what he said just now, that he wants to be in a relationship with AMBER, that AMBER is worth it (worth him, even if he doesn’t think that is much of a bargin chip), and that the only-dating-Amazigirl-limitation doesn’t work. I just hope Amber will let him stay with her. She will try very hard to push him away.
I don’t think he will leave because I think he still feels to blame for Blaine coming back into her life.. it was the fight with Blaine and seeing sal that triggered what she had buried. I hope he is stronger than we give him credit for.
I get it.. Having grown up in a house filled with rage and abuse. There are oments when I am so scared or the only way I know how to cope with somehting is the way I was taught. I used to pretend to be someone else for a long time to hide the anger and it worked.. Until my husband saw through me and made me find myself.. It was ugly.. I am finally teaching me how to act with love and trust…without a mask.
No, Amber. This *is* why. You can’t destroy half of yourself to let the other half live. You both deserve better than that. *You* deserve better than that, to be a whole, not two shattered halves. And I won’t rest until you realize that both of you deserve my love.
Also, dammit, Danny, you should have picked no mask the first time, it could have saved you a lot of trouble.
Panel 6 is the realization that panels 4 and 5 are a gender-swapped reenactment of an interaction she saw her parents have countless times before.
Mike is right, she falls back on behaviors she learned from her father. The difference is she has remore about it. She needs help learning to curb these abusive outbursts before they leave her brain. She’s probably never gotten that kind of help before. Maybe if Amber was in more control of her temper, she wouldn’t need to use Amazi-Girl as a crutch to the extent she does now.
In my own experiences, my partner should have left. But I knew as does Amber that it is a bad quality. That means she can with work fix it. Knowing someone loves her..may be key here. Thats not to say, he shouldnt set some boundaries..just that leaving her the first time she shows a albeit huge flaw is not how real life works. Everyone has smething that can trigger this… The problem in a lot of relationships is that people are all or nothing.. and it only increases the divide. and yes there are get the hell out of dodge (gonna kill their spouse or gf/bf) relationships… Amber isnt that far gone.. The fact that she has coping mechanisms at all.. shows that she can learn to overcome it.
A lot now falls on poor Danny’s shoulders. How he reacts here could have an enormous impact on Amber’s future mental stability and happiness.
If he refuses to be scared and refuses to back down, then she’ll finally end up in a position where her only options are acceptance of violence. Y’see, I think that she’d rather die than use violence. So, one outcome (perhaps the closest to a ‘good’ outcome we have in this scenario) is for her to break down completely and Danny practically having to carry her back to her dorm because she’s crying too hard to walk.
I’ve been meaning to ask, but what point exactly is Amber trying to prove by doing the Amazi-girl thing? She created her to show off her tough, strong side because of her abusive father who imprinted in her brain that she’s a weak piece of shit that can’t do anything, right? So if she is actually able to do amazing shit but refuses to admit that it’s her then, like, what’s the point? What’s the point in purposefully creating a dissociative disorder for herself?
Amber thinks she’s a terrible, useless coward, and that she’s liable to start harming the people she loves. Amazi-Girl is a dumping ground for feelings she can’t control. She becomes someone invincible and powerful and who can do no wrong.
1. And this is why surprise kisses are never a good idea. If Danny casually expressed his confusion about the separation of Amazi-girl and Amber, she wouldn’t have reacted nearly as strongly. This was him kissing the girl who did not expect it and does not see herself as being in a relationship with him, and the magnitude of explosion was to be expected.
2. Amber is SO a system. As far as I know, ‘just compartmentalizing’ is basically what DID often starts as, and then it can just spiral out of control. And it absolutely is often a result of PTSD.
3. I really don’t think Amber is abusive. Yes, she channeled abusive behavior for a moment, but – she didn’t mean it, and she wasn’t systemically trying to demean Danny. That’s just the way she knows to express anger, the only one other than beating people up. That’s the template she has, and when you are this angry and scared and confused, it’s hard to control which one you use and whether it’s the one you want.
I catch myself repeating my mom’s phrasings lately all the time, including those I hate and those I know hurt me and are still haunting and hurting me even now that I know it for the bullshit it is. It’s just not a thing you easily control.
As long as Amber ultimately keeps the blame for this situation to herself and realizes Danny had no way of knowing and expresses that to him and apologizes, nothing about her behavior is abusive. Hurtful, unhealthy, yes, but abuse is something different.
And yes, I did just point out that Danny was to blame – but it’s a case of “don’t walk on a minefield”, yes you are wrong for ignoring a clear warning, but ultimately the blame for the explosion is on the person who planted the mines.
I expected Amber to react negatively, and I did say in the comments last page that I would have reacted negatively in her place, but I expected a bit of verbal displeasure and moving away, not… this.
Amber is in a really bad place now. I hope Danny has enough people smarts to- oh who am I kidding, I hope Danny has enough blind dumb luck to accidentally blunder into a response that helps her calm down.
Just saying “You are the same person as Amazi-girl” is not helpful until it’s established that the person saying that understands that it’s not how Amber perceives the situation and that she’s not in control as much as it would seem from the outside.
Danny may have meant well, but an arm around the shoulder, a casual hug, might have gone a long way to helping Amber instead of just adding to her confusion.
Abusers “never mean it”, and it ends up being a cycle, whether it’s emotional or physical.
Amber may have not mean it, but she needs to own it that her behavior can turn into a true abuse cycle. She just went through the cycle faster here, by apologizing immediately. She needs to realize the abuse CAN happen just this time if she gets help. If not, this will happen again.
….I help children/teens who go through both physical and emotional abuse. The parents “never mean it.”
Yeah, Danny needs to run, not walk. Being called a ‘stupid piece of-‘ is bad and she’s stepped over a few lines here. And if it hurts her when he walks? Good. That pain can motivate her to eitehr get help or treat the next idiot who dates her better…
It’s absolutely true that abusers rationalize their actions as “not abusive”, and then apologize and build a narrative where they’ll totally stop this time, honest, but that’s not what Amber’s doing here.
She’s lashing out, definitely, but her reaction in the last panel isn’t an attempt to regain control of Danny after she browbeat him; she’s genuinely terrified and remorseful that she lashed out at him in a way that’s exactly like her father. Unlike Blaine, Amber thinks of any act of abuse as abusive, and that it’s directly tied into how she is a terrible person.
Amber behaved abusively. Even she realizes it (why do you think she’s all, “This is why” in that last panel? Why do you think she looks horrified with herself?). She has been afraid that she will become a monster because she’s internalized her father’s methods of reacting to and dealing with anger for a reason and that reason is that Blaine is an abusive dick and Amber is too much like him for her own comfort (I can relate to this entirely too much for my own comfort because reasons, though I’m not as bad as Amber in that respect but I definitely relate to the feeling that you’re a ticking time bomb in any relationship and the terror that you will become that which you despise).
But, abusers aren’t all Snidely Whiplash. They don’t sit there twirling their moustache plotting how to destroy other people for their evil plans of evilness. They’re more like Kilgrave from the Jessica Jones series on Netflix: They are deeply self-centered, damaged people who justify and rationalize everything they’re doing.
They often don’t mean to hurt they other person. Very often, they’ve convinced themselves that they haven’t hurt the other person (or if they did, it was in the other person’s best interest to be hurt) and that the abuser in the situation is actually the victim. Many abusers are themselves victims of abuse and, in my experience as an abuse victim, some use their prior abuse as a way to justify what they’re currently doing – “Stop flinching, it’s not like I’m abusing you or anything. My dad was abusive. He used to hit me with a belt. Have I ever hit you with a belt? No, that’s right. Now stop being a whiny bongo or I’ll give you something to cry about.”
Now, is it far enough, yet, to say the relationship itself is abusive? No, probably not – you’re right that patterns rather than isolated incidents make abusive relationships. However, it’s a HUGE red flag that this relationship is not going down a good road. At this point, Amber and Danny have two major options: they can muddle through on their own and hope they figure out how to make a functional relationship happen (and more likely than not fall into an abusive pattern), or they can get some outside expertise to help Amber deal with her anger and trauma in a constructive and healthy way (which, being real, is not a guarantee that they’ll avoid falling into an abusive pattern).
Danny, for his part, tends to be codependent and passive-aggressive. He doesn’t really communicate what he wants or needs in a relationship and instead tends to expect the other person to just magically divine it. I would expect, given my parents’ dynamic, that when he gets more comfortable in a relationship, he gets sulky when the other person doesn’t divine what he wants and petulantly and passive-aggressively punishes his partner or sabotages whatever they’re trying to do until they figure out what’s bugging him and give him what he wants, rather than clearly communicating what he wants or needs. He also does not seem to consider much what the other person wants out of a relationship and has a tendency to assume if he’s happy with the way things are going, everything is hunky-dory (see also why Dorothy dumping him completely took him by surprise – as an aside, I don’t think she’s going to stick with Walky, either, because, especially if you think of her as the genderbent Political Climber archetype, that type usually ends up with a show spouse who has enough ambition and drive to look good on paper but not so much that they’ll challenge the Political Climber’s ambitions. Walky doesn’t fit that bill – he doesn’t have enough ambition, so he’ll end up looking like a deadbeat in the White House. But especially, I think Dorothy is self-aware enough to realize that she’s too ambitious and too much of a workaholic to be someone’s everything and she’s looking for a spouse who loves and appreciates her, sure, but doesn’t spend all their time when she’s not around just pining after her. She wants someone who has a life outside of her, and Danny is definitely NOT that. Danny wants someone to be his everything, which isn’t really healthy but that’s basically why they broke up – and I actually think Dorothy did them both a favor by breaking up with him early rather than waiting for him to get resentful of the fact that, for her, her career is always going to come first). Finally, he lacks any sense of initiative or agency about himself – how often do you see Danny do something for him? Pretty much never. He will do stuff, but more to please others than because he actually wants to do it – which ties into the people pleaser/compromiser/Flexible and Accommodating One image he likes to have. I imagine he’s so used to being a people-pleaser that he actually doesn’t even know what he enjoys (beyond superficial stuff like shows) or wants to do with himself. All of which I don’t think he’s doing consciously – I think it’s just partly his relaxed personality and partly an upbringing that has encouraged him to worry more about others than about himself and partly his lack of confidence and emotional immaturity.
But yeah, all of that ^^^ is something that makes me think that Danny/Amber is going to hell in a handbasket. I have no idea where they’ll end up, but I know the end isn’t gonna be pretty.
^ Yeahthis. A promising sign to me is that she’s not making fun of him for being hurt by her actions. “Oh, come on, you don’t really think I meant that seriously, did you? I don’t believe that. You’re a smart kid, you knew I was kidding/just upset/not being serious/over-reacting.”
Goal with that ^^^ being to convince the abuser that the victim wasn’t really hurt by them, and that if the victim is acting hurt, it’s not because they actually are hurt but rather because they’re trying to manipulate the abuser. (See also: why I retreat from social situations the second I feel tears because my brain does the job of that particular asshole for me. “OHHHH, here we go again with the waterworks! You know, I don’t know who you think you’re playing because nobody believes you when you do this. You’re just trying to manipulate me, and it’s not working.” <- I was 8 in the incident I'm remembering right now, but I was the bad guy trying to manipulate and emotionally abuse a grown freaking adult, uh-huh. Yeah. Sorry. Amber's story hits me in the feels.)
Amber's not gaslighting him yet. Doesn't mean she won't, but she's not yet which to me seems good. But yeah. This strip is a huge red flag, and people who don't see it don't know how to recognize abusive behaviors when they see them, IMO.
I think you may be tripped up by Ambers gender. She is the tough one.
The Danny/Amber relationship ( and the Danny/ Dorothy one ) is best -understood through a gender-flipped lens . This has been telegraphed a number of times by willis and the characters. Danny has even referred to himself as Lois lane and Catwoman.
That being said , I disagree it was a surprise kiss. Its Danny, he hasnt ever been shown to be aggressive.
It took 2-3 panels. Merely initiating a kiss with someone you are in an exclusive relationship with isnt problematic. Danny ( like many ladies with tough Bfs ) has been utterly desperate to see Ambers softer sensitive side. Seeing it for the first time was why he reacted romantically yesterday. It makes sense gender-flipped.
You are coming across as victim-blaming. Amber has rage issues like most abusers.
If this is happening in your own life “but it’s a case of “don’t walk on a minefield”, seek help. Thats not OK.
“nothing about her behavior is abusive. ”
Actually NO. She is quoting BLaine! Who is emotionally abusive in 2 comics per the author ( and Ethan ) These are Blaines abusive words that scarred her. She is acting it out.
I dont think danny has overracted ( in either comic ) . I think He can talk her down. If she lets him in. But thats the underlying problem. She hasnt until now.
Okay, “nothing about her behavior is abusive” was an exaggeration, yes.
But it’s patterns, not isolated incidents, that an abuser make. She’s quoting Blaine, but she’s horrified by it herself. This does not look like it’s going down an abusive road, future-wise.
Also, it doesn’t ‘make sense gender flipped’. It makes exactly the sense it does with the genders the characters have. Danny is in a Love Interest role, a counterpart to her Superhero role, but he’s still a boy and she’s still a girl.
And look at the previous page again. Look at Amber’s expression as Danny leans in to kiss her. Does that look like someone who’s expecting a kiss? Does that look like someone who’s looking forward to a kiss?
I am not victim blaming here. As I pointed out, Amber is ultimately at fault for this situation, and my acceptance of her as not abusive is conditional on her realizing and expressing that, and doing her best to avoid such outbursts in the future.
(Ironically, you hit the nail on the head with the “don’t walk on a minefield” being a thing in my own life. I tried seeking help. None is avaliable. But regardless of that, nonconsensual kissing is still not OK by its own, and would have been not OK even if Amber had reacted positively, as I said yesterday)
And no, being ‘non-aggressive’ (Nice Guy much?) doesn’t excuse not just ‘initiating a kiss’ but going through with it without noticing that the other person does not look comfortable with it and doesn’t respond positively.
Also, “Amber has rage issues like most abusers” actually, there’s a line between having rage issues and being abusive. Abuse is when the person thinks that them having rage issues makes their reaction justified, and everyone else at fault for triggering them. It’s “the bad thing is that you did the innocuous thing that made me react like that” instead of “the bad thing is that I reacted like that to an innocuous thing you did”.
Amber, here, is clearly realizing that her reaction is disproportionate and wrong, and that SHE’s the one to blame for it. That’s what she’s communicating on the last panel, along with it being the explanation for her separating Amazi-girl from Amber.
“If Danny casually expressed his confusion about the separation of Amazi-Girl and Amber, she wouldn’t have reacted nearly as strongly.”
Casually? His girlfriend, who seems to care for a lot, has just described an experience where she could have died or hurt himself in many different ways. She intentionally put herself in those situations so she could help someone else.
I cant imagine Danny just ignoring all of that and going “hey, arent you AmaziGirl? Why are you referring to her as another person?”.
Amber reacted strongly because of her issues. I cant blame Danny here, even though he is the one apologizing.
Yeah, even if Danny had hugged her or her held her hand, she would still would have reacted the same way. “I am Amber. You date Amazi-Girl.”
Like, as far as surprise kisses go I think this was alright, it accurately sold how Danny feels for Amber, but it’s also a trope that’s been used poorly over and over again in really objectifying ways, which Dumbing of Age has been really smart with avoiding every time it’s used one; Walky/Dorothy happened after they both clearly established they were into each other, Billie/Ruth ended with Ruth getting told the fuck off and nearly drinking herself to death and they tried to work from there, Becky/Joyce kind of had to happen that way for the reveal to work as well as it did.
TLDR; I hate the surprise kiss, but I can also recognize that it’s also a really good tool for drama.
This really isn’t a “Surprise Kiss” in any meaningful sense. Danny’s kissing his girlfriend. That’s normally pretty accepted without much notice.
At least from his point of view. He knows he’s supposedly dating Amazi-girl, not Amber, but from his PoV that’s a fiction – keeping the secret identity, not actually different personas. This is one of his first real confrontations with Amber not seeing it that way.
No yeah, I hear you. I call it a Surprise Kiss because, well, Danny interrupts her and kisses her when she wasn’t expecting it. You’re absolutely right that Danny is trying to do something romantic and heartfelt for her, and there’s also that Amber did the same to him a while back.
Really, most of my misgivings about it are with the trope itself, and not the use of it in this particular instance. If I were to write about any bad use of it then I wouldn’t bring up DoA.
Oh my god are we seriously getting into the “marital rape is not rape” defense layers?
Just because you are in a relationship with someone doesn’t mean you don’t need consent. Yes, even to a kiss. Especially when your kiss is interrupting them saying something – he literally interrupted her mid-word. It’s – it’s fucking RUDE.
Yes, he’s trying to do something heartfelt and romantic. Yet, he’s also failing because he fails at accounting for feedback – like ‘yes I noticed you are trying to kiss me’ and ‘yes I do want you to go through with it’ that are somewhat required when you are trying to kiss someone on the lips. Whoever it is.
Actually, never mind. My thoughts were all jumbled.
One thing needs to be clarified though: I didnt mean to say that Danny has a RIGHT to kiss Amber and Amber must submit to that right because she is his girlfriend. I am mentioning this specifically because of your mention of “marital rape”.
What I meant to say that because they are where they are in this relationship, Danny would not hesitate to initiate a kiss. Does that make sense?
Nope, in this situation I didn’t just have misgivings about the trope. “Misgivings about the trope” was the “Shut Up Kiss” which was not what was happening.
Surprise kiss is absolutely what happened here, as expressed by Amber’s expression on the last panel, while Danny is already kissing her
Has anyone considered the thought that there is actually only one person in this comic, and that person is both hallucinogenic, and on drugs? And has imagined all these people.
Not really. Mainly because “It was all just a dream, jokes on you for getting invested in the story!” is an annoying plot twist, and its frequency in fan theories is kinda irritating.
I’d suggest ‘the Dallas phenomenon’, but since that was the actual show going the ‘it was all a dream’ route as opposed to the fandom, that could be a little misleading.
I want to give Amber the biggest of hugs and the best damn therapist for her that I can find. I want to give Danny a big hug and take him out for pizza and listen to him supportively. I want both of these crazy kids to be okay!
You guys are way overthinking it. Danny and Amazi-Girl are a kind-of not-secret couple. If he’s seen smacking on Amber, a girl with the same voice, body-type, and hair as Amazi-Girl, her cover is blown.
I… welp. It’s not often I go to one of the comics I check regularly and come away feeling as if there’s a dagger stuck in my gut. The full-on dissociation that has been talked about for ages finally rears its head in a definitive way. The red panel rage. The remarkable similarity to Blaine. And Danny, there, trying to do the right thing but being completely out of his element and now the object of that rage.
And there’s no sign that this is where rock bottom is. Things may well get even worse. They probably will, too, as this is Dumbing of Age.
Willis, I commend you for excellent writing -but also- damn you. That “Damn you” is also a compliment, see the bit about feeling like there’s a dagger stuck in me. I need to reflect for a bit.
Actually if he approached it right, Danny probably sell the idea of being Amazigirl’s boyfriend while “cheating” and having a cheap meaningless secret sexual affair with Amber that no-one would ever know about. Though I’m sure that Amber would be more comfortable with Danny cheating with Ethan. But I’m not at all sure that Danny could handle that.
Danny is the kind of guy who would do anything he could to help someone he cares for.
Thus when Amber finally looses it and starts to wail on someone (either as herself or AG) be’ll step in and take the hits because he knows every one he takes is more of the Blaine fueled rage being exorcised . And no matter how bad he’ll be hurt he won’t hold it against her at all.
Unfortunately, things she acts out in that way are not exorcised but only reenacted without being processed.
Her beating Blaine would have more of an exorcising effect because he’s the real aim.
So Danny, no, don’t think you’re helping by taking these hits stoically. And don’t fucking apologize, she needs to really take responsibility for the crap she does here.
People who have DID themselves have come out of woodwork in the comments on the previous page, noting it sounds very familiar and relatable and that it’s a good framework for looking at reasons for Amber’s behavior, at the very least.
If there is one thing I like about the comic, it’s how blunt and realistic Willis is. He’s not politically correct, and he’s sensitive about the real issues that are glazed over a lot in college life.
The cycle of Abuse -> Apologize -> Repeat is extremely real, but Amber’s not doing that. She’s not trying to gain control of Danny, she’s freaking out because she’s acting towards him the way her father treated her mother.
Which doesn’t mean he shouldn’t walk away. This is moving towards an abusive relationship and frankly Danny looks like good victim material.
OTOH, it’s not really there yet and Amber needs support, not rejection. She can still be pulled out of the cycle.
She’s not trying to manipulate Danny, but she is falling into the pattern she learned from Blaine. The anger, the abuse. And of course, she sees that and blames herself, but uses that blame to feed her self-loathing and disassociate more. More of the good parts into Amazi-Girl and the bad ones into Amber. Which builds the rage and just makes things worse.
On the gripping hand, this is a comic and a narrative. Though things will get worse, they’ll come to a climax and resolution. Amber won’t spiral downward indefinitely. The story won’t leave Danny trapped in a co-dependent, abusive relationship indefinitely. The resolution most likely will be more dramatic than “Amber eventually goes into therapy and slowly gets better over a period of years of hard work” which would be the realistic good outcome. But bad storytelling.
Danny definitely has a low sense of self worth, but I resent the idea that Amber is an abusive person, or that Danny is at all in danger of getting Blaine’d by her. She can’t just choose not to react violently; it’s second nature to her now, and we see pretty clearly that just yelling at him is enough to wrack her with guilt.
Speaking personally, I don’t think “Amber goes to therapy” would be a bad storyline. I think the story of Amber, finally realizing how in need of help she really is, seeking it out and tries to start solving her problems with support from people she loves, struggling with shaking off nearly two decades of mental programming and restarting from scratch, would be amazing. The swashbuckling adventures of Amazi-Girl had a good run, but the Genie’s been let out of the bottle; nobody can pretend that Amazi-Girl is a positive thing anymore, and it has to end.
I’d say that Amber is definitely at risk of becoming an abusive person. Her problems, if not dealt with, will lead her there. Sure, she’s wracked with guilt for slipping and letting the rage out. That’s an opening to help and it definitely shows she’s not too far gone yet, but it’s also just another sign to her that Amber’s bad and dangerous and not worthy. The self-loathing grows and that feeds the repressed rage, which spills over onto Danny.
Unless she just lets him see Amazi-girl, because she’s the good, strong one.
The problem with “Amber goes to therapy” in this series is that it’s an ending. With no resolution, because therapy will take a long time, years of in-world time, centuries of real time. It could be a good storyline, but not here.
And it’s easy to pretend Amazi-girl’s a positive thing. She’s a super-hero. She just saved Becky. She might not be a good thing for Amber, but that’s not important to her. Amber doesn’t deserve good things.
It’s interesting because I think Willis is trying to walk that very line: Where Amazi-girl is both a real super-hero who really does do heroic things and a symptom of a very screwed up girl who needs help.
And an excuse to draw action sequences, which he needs to keep.:)
I mean, I really can’t see Amber, being driven to tears for yelling at Danny, ever continuing. The thing with abusers is that they keep doing it and rationalize their behaviour. Amber has no such misgivings; She immediately recognized that she was acting like her father.
Therapy isn’t an ending. Bad writers treat it the same way they do relationships that only being at the end of the story. Pursuing therapy is a long commitment and could provide years of storytelling, and really, the healing process doesn’t ever truly end. It’s a constant effort to deal with, and I think that could be easily worked into DoA for a long time.
At the least, I think that if we continue to focus on the worst aspects of Amazi-Girl, then the awesome parts, the fight scenes, the parkour, will come off more and more hollow. Amazi-Girl can’t be cool and badass at the same time as she’s embodying Amber’s biggest problem. When Sal when buggernuts in IW! we sure weren’t meant to be rooting for her.
Lots of abusers regret their actions – even with tears. The remorse is often real, that doesn’t mitigate the abuse. Their is no reason to assume that Amber would stop here, in fact it’s presumptuous to assume that just because she cried once she’s worked it out of her system.
Obviously she hasn’t worked it out but there’s no fucking way she’d allow this to become a consistent behavioural pattern. No way. I will buy a hat just so I can eat if we ever get to a point where Amber gets like this without immediately regretting it.
She has problems and she needs help but she’s not this violent, psychotic whirlwind of abuse. She doesn’t need to be treated like she’s a rabid dog who’s just one step away from viciously beating Danny.
Honestly, you’re probably right. She wouldn’t actually be able to stop herself in the long, assuming the spiral out of control continues. She’d snap … and regret it. And snap … and regret it. With the breaks getting worse and the self-blame getting worse every time.
So she’d push him away, to protect him and because Amber doesn’t deserve anything good.
Never said she wouldn’t not regret it. She would probably always regret it. Does that regret make it okay? How many times should a person accept “I’m sorry” before they need to move away from their abuser?
Amber manipulated Danny when he was with his parents. She had her own reasons, but rather than share them, she ran away. She cashed in on their friendship and she blurred the lines between Amazigirl and herself when she pursued time with Danny in both identities. She then punished Danny for his understandable loyalty to the girl he was dating by avoiding him in both identities. Without intent, she has been playing games with Danny for some time, setting up rules and boundaries that only apply to him, and punishing him for not following guidelines that are absurd.
Meanwhile, Danny has his own self esteem issues and will probably soak up the abuse. It doesn’t matter if Amber regrets her actions, the relationship is unhealthy, and it’s unhealthy largely because of Amber.
Oh, good. She’s not compartmentalizing a protective identity, she’s compartmentalizing her dad. Just another girl messed up by an abusive parent. (Sarcasm, btw.)
I hope Amber eventually realizes it’s not HER anger she’s trying to stuff away, it’s Blaine’s. Just because she listened to that shit her whole life doesn’t mean she has to keep listening to it now that she’s an adult or throw it at other people.
If Danny doesn’t want to Dan this one up, he needs to drop the “I’m sorry,” and come back with “This is what makes you Amber. If you’re worried about this, it’s time to talk to a professional about it.” Unfortunately, I don’t see Danny as either aware enough or bold enough to do that. 🙁
I doubt “professionals” will be the answer. As I said, not dramatic enough. But also, not the way most college kids think, unless they’ve had good experiences with therapy themselves. I definitely remember a strong “handle it ourselves without involving adults” feeling from my college years.
That aside, Danny can respond by sticking to his guns and pushing the fact that he likes Amber, not just Amazi-girl. Or more accurately, not just because of Amazi-girl, because he doesn’t see them as separate. Which he has been doing all along.
And do that while standing up to and not accepting the abuse, which will be much harder for him, since he’s Danny.
I agree that would likely be the way he would think, handle it ourselves. But the odds of success with handling something like this without adequate knowledge are piss poor.
The numbers for screwed up kids in college, suicide, drug abuse, alcoholism, and so forth rather conclusively show how bad kids are at handling it themselves.
Not that society as a whole is much better.
The stigma attached to mental problems sure doesn’t help with seeking help for a problem, or even acknowledging there is a problem.
Actually, I’ve seen multiple webcomic storylines made better by having characters go to therapists and actually (gasp) get good therapy. It can even make for, yes, entertaining drama.
“‘Just go out and bang some dude’ is one of the phrases you will never hear a psychiatrist say. Other such phrases include ‘I think the heroin is doing you a lot of good,’ and ‘Jesus, no WONDER your mother never loved you.'”
Were those comics on a year of real time to a week of world time ratio?
Therapy would essentially never have any effect on her. It would be so many years out, it wouldn’t matter.
That’s not going to be the resolution here. Not for Amber and not for Billie/Ruth, either.
Can we at least acknowledge the fact that professional help would do them good? Because it’s absolutely true, no matter what “angle” you think the webcomic will try to go for.
There has to be resolution eventually. Billie and Ruth can’t forever be in a sexy lesbian suicide pact; At some point in time they are going to either have to get better or get worse, and considering Amber is one of the main characters I kind of doubt we’re in for years of her mental illness becoming progressively more damaging with no hope in sight, especially when the journey through therapy and healing is completely underutilized in fiction.
There will be resolution. I just expect it to be a more dramatic resolution than a long realistic years of therapy approach. Maybe Willis can pull something off to make therapy both realistic and interesting, but at what’s likely to be a pace of about one session per real time year, I’ve got trouble seeing how.
As a parallel, it’s much like the last storyline was resolved by the characters, not by someone calling 911 and everyone sheltering until the cops settled things – even if that would have been the most realistic and probably best thing to do. That’s not the story Willis wanted to tell.
The anger is hers. Doesn’t matter if it’s conditioned into her by an abusive parent. For all we know, little Blaine suffered greatly in his own childhood – that wouldn’t excuse him though, would it?
Oh that’s fucking nice. Great to know that having violent ideals beaten into you over the entire course of your formative years definitely makes you just as bad as your own abuser.
That’s why it’s called a cycle of abuse. It often does not spring up out of nowhere. Does Amber having been a victim of abuse somehow excuse her being an abuser? Would her father being a victim of abuse then also excuse his actions?
So yes, while being a victim of abuse might EXPLAIN your abusive actions, abusing someone because you were also abused DOES actually make you as bad as your abuser. Absolutely. If it didn’t, very few abusers would be held accountable for their actions. Is that what you would endorse?
I think applying the same standards you would to a fully cognizant, grown adult to a child is bullshit, let alone a child who is actually painfully aware of actually becoming an abuser, and reacts in horror at acting like one.
“In primitive societies you’d be considered an adult at 13” notwithstanding, she’s 18, whereas brain development isn’t complete until age 25. She also hasn’t actually gone as far as Blaine, and you’ve completely ignored the “painfully aware / reacts in horror” bit.
So you think that because she hasn’t gone as far as her father, her abusive actions are acceptable? At what point do you measure abuse as unacceptable then?
As far as her age – she is not a child. Fact. If her age apologies her actions, is it the same for all those her age?
I’m not applying the same standards. She’s on the path, but she’s not there yet. Much farther than one step away, but definitely headed in the wrong direction.
There will still be plenty of chances to turn away and I fully expect that to happen.
From what I’ve heard, it’s much easier to get decent psychiatric help in America than in Ukraine… for what it’s worth. Not that my country is any sort of a good baseline T_T
Interesting – reminds me of some of the discussions regarding Batman/Bruce Wayne. Is Batman Bruce Wayne’s alter ego, or is Bruce Wayne Batman’s alter ego?
Way to go Danny, you just cheated on your girlfriend. Now do it again, but with Ethan this time. (jk)
Seriously, though, wouldn’t it be easier for Danny to be dating Amber instead of AmaziGirl? Could he dump AmaziGirl for Amber?
Or he could suggest polyamory, of course. But since he probably doesn’t know what polyamory is, he’d have to do it accidentally.
If I was in the position of being able to advise Danny, I’d flat out tell him to server, turn around and run right the fuck now. Whatever her diagnosis is, she’s dangerous, and the only thing to do with the likes of her is to get out of the way before you get caught in the undertow when she goes down. As someone said before, she’s likely prime involuntary commitment fodder, and the high security wing at that, as, aside from anything else, nothing else would likely hold the AG persona if she decided to leave.
Unfortunately, he’s unlikely to listen and will suffer for it.
I have a feeling this is going to somehow relate to the question of “mask or no mask” being about more than a sexual kink, and how danny somehow chose amazigirl over amber.
Jesus amber, dont get so pissed at danny for not sympathizing with your psychosis. I mean i guess if you were able to realize that was happening then you wouldn’t be so mad. Damn subjectivity
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nice job breaking it, hero
[frustration not anger]GUH AMBER JUST CHEAT ON YOURSELF WITH DANNY ARRRRRRRGH[/frustration not anger]
Didn’t even consider the Amber/Amazi-Girl dichotomy here, did I
And on the surface neither did Danny.
But I’m not sure the surface view is the correct one. We have been given the information that sexual orientation as well as some basic personality persists across universes. And I think there is a clue to Danny in the Walky-verse. If you look at his relationships with Joyce and Sal and even to some extent Billie, it is evident Danny gets some kind of emotional/sexual charge out of being abused. And he subtly encourages his abuse. ((Emotional – not physical)) And in this universe we start with Danny provoking emotional punishment from Dorothy.
In this universe, I think it is at least possible that he knows on some level that Amber is not at all comfortable with him and her Amber persona being emotionally intimate. He is feeling guilty about his attraction to Ethan. And so he punishes himself by provoking emotional abuse from Amber which is also stimulating. And all of this is completely subconscious.
In other words, Danny in his own way has a psych that is every bit as twisted as Amber’s. I’m not 100% convinced all this is true, but I would give it over 50%.
Exactly! Why can’t Danny just cheat on Amazi-Girl with Amber. In fact, couldn’t he go out with both girls? Neither of them would have to…o wait. xD
Yeah, I really don’t understand Amber’s logic here. If they’re the same person, they could easily date the same person because it will only be TWO PEOPLE INVOLVED.
DOA logic is confusing.
It’s normal logic, if you view alters as different people. Amber seems to fluctuate between feeling she’s a whole with Amazi-girl as a way to compartmentalize, and feeling she’s just one alter with Amazi-girl being another.
As obvious from her explanation to Danny, at this moment she was 100% separating them.
I mean, I’m 100% in favor of polyamory, but this sort of thing needs to be negotiated and mutually agreed upon, not sprung on someone with a surprise kiss, sooooooo
thank you. Your comment has made me feel so much better after a ton of comments on yesterday’s strip caused me to feel pretty shitty.
I am so glad that someone understands and is explaining.
But at that particular moment, she was NOT separating them right then, not entirely. She transitioned partway through that story into “*I* was bleeding…” and “I said…” By the time he kissed her, she was either AmaziGirl wearing Amber’s clothes, or AG and Amber weren’t so separate at that moment. Poor guy is all kinds of confused.
I’m in agreement with Ruhrow on this one. Even if she does separate them, she’s clearly (and possibly unfortunately) confusing and mixing them together at the moment. The only good side is… While this is horrible for them right now, it’s better for her to combine those two. AG isnt’ invincible, and she needs to realize this, but Amber isn’t as fragile or weak as she lets herself be, and she needs to bring the two together to ever be ‘stable’. Having the ‘creator of AG’ tell her ‘you’re wrong’ was a good start.
I’d just like to point out that when Danny first came up to her, she was doing Amazi-Girl exercises. Even without the outfit on, I kinda think she was in that mode already and shifted back to Amber for him, then shifted back to Amazi-Girl for her story.
She was wearing Amber clothes, stated that no one ought to see her doing AmaziGirl exercises (implication being that nobody should see *Amber* doing AG stuff), discusses AG as a separate person “Ask AmaziGirl, I wasn’t there”, begins the story in third person about AG…and then the separation starts to fall apart. She switches to *I* statements and gets caught up in the emotions of what she experienced. She then seems to make an effort to forcibly separate the personalities again by reiterating each persona’s traits “AmaziGirl gives up, Amber hides”.
It’s at this point that Danny kissed her. Now, yes, she had switched back to “Amber talking about AG”, but Danny…Danny just sat through the entire process, is probably confused as hell, and wants to show someone he cares about, THAT he cares about them, when they’re upset.
It’s confusing as hell, and I say that as someone who has had days to sit here and sift through her rapid shifts in wording and whatnot. He’s just sitting there watching her struggle and seeing the lines she tried to build – lines that he never fully understood and certainly never internalized – break down. Who knows if he ever recognized how important the splitting of those personalities was to her…it’s certainly not unreasonable that he would just *not* get that the distinctions between Amber and AG are even more important to her in a crisis, not less. I feel for the guy…how do you respectfully and healthily support someone in a tough time when their own coping mechanism actively and unhealthily blocks outside help?
Honestly, the whole personality construct she developed seems geared specifically towards preventing any aspect of her from ever admitting that she *needs* help, which means there’s not really any good, viable option left for someone to support her without violating her dual personality rules.
I just don’t think it’s fair to expect the guy to suddenly, perfectly, start considering AG and Amber as two wholly separate people when that’s something *she* is clearly struggling with herself.
In psychological terms it’s called splitting. She’s split herself into two alters due to all the abuse she’s suffered. Integrating alters is an excruciating process.
You break it, you bought it.
“That’s my secret, Cap. I’m always angry.”
Someone shoulda slapped his hand and told him no
Joe was busy.
Mike too. Something about 5 pennies and someone’s female legal guardian.
I’m going to hang up my prognosticating hat.
But…. if you say that you’re GOING TO do it…. don’t you need your prognosticating hat for that?
That’s why it isn’t hung up yet.
Yeah, promises promises. 😀 Bets on hanging the hat as another bad prognostication?
When would we even call that bet, though? “Agemegos hasn’t prognosticated in a while, but does that mean the hat’s permanently hung up?” “Agemegos keeps prognosticating, but might stop in the future.” “Agemegos stopped prognosticating for a bit and then started again, so that counts as the hat being hung up briefly, rather than the normal delays between everyone’s posts.”
Yeah. I didn’t say I was going to burn my prognosticating hat.
And at a pinch, one can always prognosticate hatless. Since the Kennedy administration …
You say “breaking it” like Danny did something to cause it to break rather than it already being smashed to pieces when he got there.
You sure the remark was addressed.to Danny?
You have a point there. Although taken the other way it remains to be seen if this “breaks” Danny.
“Nice job breaking it, *hero,*” is what she said. How many heroes are in this comic?
Ah, shit! My Gravatar is Marcie! Uh… forget everything I said above and just replace it with equivalent ASL gestures.
Well theres super pizza girl or whatever.
QC?
You know, Marcie can type. Comments section are a perfectly valid method of communication for her.
Do we know for certain that Marcie doesn’t type ASL? ((Well, OK. But that SHOULD be a thing. Particularly for people that think in ASL.))
It is a thing, Sutton SignWriting, but you need special software for it (proprietary formats mostly; it was added to Unicode in the last year or so but support is still almost nonexistent)
ASL isn’t Marcie’s first language, though. She wasn’t mute as a small child. Which language she thinks in is kind of an interesting question, actually, since she’s often listening to English and replying in ASL.
She’s also not deaf. She hears english just fine and has it spoken around her all the time, so I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought in it.
Marcie is mute. That means she can’t type and when she’s hungry her tummy doesn’t rumble.
I have always understood the “comment as your avatar” practice to basically ignore the specifics that you’re using a text medium, and instead comment in the way that most accurately represents how the character in question usually communicates in the work in question. So if you were commenting as Discworld’s Death for instance, you would comment in all caps and preferably change your font if possible, even though The Voice would obviously not transfer to text if Death were actually posting in a comments section.
Returning to the question of “how many hero’s in this comic?” More than you would think. Joyce, obviously. Sal who we’ve recently seen in action catching Amazigirl. The room-mate with the baseball bat was pretty heroic. And Mike will always be *my* hero.
Probably others as well. Ex-cheerleader, problem solving heros who save peoples lives. Heros who attack their girl-friends massive abusive gun-wielding father with their bare claws. Lot of heros.
Let’s face it, pretty much all of the cast is a hero waiting to happen under the right circumstances….or a villain convinced they are the hero.
someones been lurking on tv tropes
A safe prediction.
It will ruin their life.
I had a day job filled with two hours of work a day
(had–current one actually has stuff that needs doing, sadly)
Only Amber could take the dual identity thing and make it weird…
She feels that Danny’s too good for Amber, that Amber’s a worthless person, but Amazi-girl needs someone like Danny and they go together well. That Amber doesn’t deserve him (she proves it by exploding like this and saying “This is why”).
Why are you doing this to us Willis all this sad we can’t handle it!
What’s going to happen 🙁
I can’t help but think Sal might still be on her mind, too. She doesn’t know which way is up!
Head trauma will do that…
Yes i think what you said is why she is acting like this. I know with how much I %#@%#@ing hate myself and wish i could get away from myself and such if anyone speaks well of me I feel like they are lying and if someone tried to kiss me…… I would freak out and run because of how much I wouldn’t be able to understand why anyone would want to do that….. with me.
She’s also said (sometimes implicitly and sometimes explicitly) that she is jealous of Amazi-girl. I don’t have too much experience with jealous girls, but I’d say this is spot on for how she’s acting. She wishes so badly that she could be Amazi-girl but she can’t. She (Amber) has seperated herself from the wonderful person SHE (Amazi-girl) is and decided that what’s left deserves to be thrown away in the name of the greater good… Danny’s happiness with his super-girlfriend and the peoples’ safety with under their hero’s watch.
…I just realised. Maybe “That Perfect Girl” is Amazi-girl. The perfect image that Amber can’t stand up to. I’m making a little assumption here, though.
The titles often (usually?) have multiple meanings.
College was an opportunity for her to redefine “Amber O’Malley” as whatever she would want her to be. Unfortunately, she sees that identity as completely worthless and unsalvageable, undeserving of anything nice that may come her way. Thus Amazi-Girl was created as her personality reboot.
Danny only sees one person in front of him. He thinks Amazi-Girl is just a costume Amber wears, but she’s trying her damndest to compartmentalize both identities. It’s unlikely this difference in perception can be reconciled, especially after today.
I think, perhaps, there was also an inversion in logic when she took up a costumed identity.
Usually, wearing a mask to fight crime is a means of protecting those around you from people seeking revenge (and also to keep from getting arrested for vigilantism, but let’s keep things in the fictional realm, here!).
Amber has chosen the masked life because it protects her from the actions of other people.
This will hinder her attempts to be a heroine, because she’s making the actions of criminals all about her.
In short, she’s kind of a self-destructive narcissist…
I think the masked life protects other people from HER. Amber doesn’t know how to be angry in a not unhealthy way; Amazi-Girl does. Amazig-Girl’s anger is righteous!
I do agree that the masked life protects other people from Amber’s rage. I disagree on Amazi-Girl’s way of dealing anger as healthy though.
Amazigirl also protects Amber from Amber’s rage. And having Amazigirl as a crutch allows Amber to be amazing. You say it isn’t healthy, and yet paradoxically it may be more healthy than the obvious alternative.
It’s actually interesting to see the progression of how she views her identities. At first it seemed she liked Amber and Amazi-Girl was where she was dumping her unwanted emotions but then first Danny came along and gave Amazi-Girl a side she wasn’t supposed to have and then Blaine showed up and Amber broke and Amazi-Girl became her strong side that she was dependent on.
Yeah, but maybe it’s kind of always been the same. In general, Amazi-girl has been happier and more relaxed, while Amber has always been lonely and miserable. Watch a scene with Amazi-girl and she’s happy, or proud, or at least badass in the midst of bad things, but watch a scene with Amber and she’s talking about her old or new problems, or she’s turning away from her friends, or doing something that she regrets. The time that she was happiest as Amber was when she made Danny pretend to his parents that she was his girlfriend. He said words that made her feel wonderful. I’m worried that she won’t ever let anything like that happen to her ever again.
…wow. You’ll need to work through that eventually
That, amd Amber has rage issues, while Amazi-girl has self-control.
Red panels.
Don’t kid yourself. Amazi-girl is totally lacking in self control.
Amber doesn’t just have anger issues (though she does); she’s also a proto-abuser. Her anger at Danny today is decidedly Blainian. She’s aware of the problem, which is one of the reasons why she only wants to date Danny as AG – that persona doesn’t have the same abusive tendancies for whatever reason.
The downside of having head-mates.
She really channeled her father in panel 4.
Ngh, you’re right. I didn’t want to see it, but it’s there.
She foreshadowed that in the argument with her father in the dorm corridor on Meet the Parents Day.
Eeyup.
One more point for Mike.
And there weren’t even nickles involved.
I don’t know, Jem made it a bit weird.
i think you mean totally rad
Either way it was truly outrageous.
It can be both.
…. because in anyone else’s hands it would be normal?
Clark Kent handles it pretty well.
As does Lamont Cranston! 🙂
Oh, you should see what the Shadow gets up to off screen.
I guess this means Danny’s free to date Ethan now. Onto the next arc…
I was wondering “is this how it is going to happen? I can live with that”. Seriously Amber, get an effing psychologist.
I’m with you guys.
“Amber, get an effing psychologist” pretty much sums up everything to do with her these days.
Idk, Danny’s gonna be too afraid to tell Amber his “sexy secret” now
Forget afraid, Amber’s just going to storm or slink or sulk away before he can say it.
Maybe, but I’m predicting this is exactly the time to bring it up to fulfill Danny’s subconscious needs. He might be surprised by the reaction though.
Most prbbly Amber have forgotten all abt it at this point.
Because during a psychotic break is clearly the best time to just totally give up on somebody you’re in love with 😐
when the relationship becomes dangerous for you is the best time to leave it.
obviously things are terrible for amber but danny is under no obligation to support her at the detriment to his own wellbeing.
dannys not a therapist. hes another teenager who cant fix her and needs to keep his own needs in mind.
He’s incapable of fixing her but there’s no way he’s just going to leave and let her sort her own shit out.
It’s been made painfully clear to Danny these last few strips how big Amber’s problems really are, and how little he understood that. He’s going to want to help her in any way he can, and drive her into seeking help.
Yeah, I think Danny would be well justified in leaving for his own sake, but at the same time I think he’s too self-sacrificing to do so. He’s hurt, she just hurt him badly, but I think he’s likely to blame himself, and pour of a lot his energy into trying to make it up to her, and help her, because she needs help desperately and he can see that. Unfortunately, the level of help she needs is beyond his ability to provide, he’s not a psychologist, he’s a kid. 🙁
This is looking more and more like a relationship that’s going to cause more damage than good to the participants.
That last paragraph is basically just a summary of DoA thought.
You could have put a period after DoA. But yeah, as long as you add, “in the long run.” There are strong reasons for thinking that Ruth/Billie, Amber/Danny and even Dorothy/Walky are eventually just not going to work. But in the short run they jewels of dysfunctional beauty that give emotional support and meaning to those that need them.
well yeah, i dont believe for a second hes actually going to leave her. but hed be entirely justified if he did and suggesting he *should* stay is not at all right
Agreed. Staying to support her is possible and is not bad on its own, but I don’t think he knows how to do that without being self-sacrificing about it.
Of course he’s under no obligations to her, and entitled to consider his own well-being.
Being Danny, he’s going to ignore that and try to help. Dude’s loyal to a fault, and not particularly aware of his limitations.
Right.
Well, don’t worry about Dan. He knows how to cover his ass.
He had no problem dumping Amber when he figured out how to hook up with Amazi-girl – before he knew they were the same.
And she was on the point of suicide at that time, and he just turned his back to go running after his super hero.
Then too, he’s been doing a great job feeding her phycosis by asking her to keep the mask on when they have sex. And by playing along with the secret identity thing.
He’s helped her get where she is, so yup, best thing to do now is run out on her again. No, he is not to blame, her problems started way back when. But if he cared, he’d stay to help, or get her help.
What’s your problem here? As far as he knows, this is just a cute roleplaying thing Amber does. Obviously he’s realizing that’s not true now, but you’re being waaaaay too hard on Danny.
Also, he didn’t ‘dump amber’. He didn’t know Amazi-Girl WAS Amber, and Amber came onto him in a really weird way, like, ‘this is creeper-stalker level’ way. He was justified in keeping space from her, and just because YOU, the reader, knows the whole story, doesn’t mean he does, such as her being on a verge of suicide. Danny’s just Danny, he’s not a mind-reader.
Except that a lot of those thing were clearly things she had asked him to do. Respecting her stated boundaries doesn’t make him a terrible person.
And it’s literally not his job to stay and help or to get her help. The only way he could force her to accept help is to somehow get her forcibly institutionalized, and since all institutions are literally just houses that make money while neglecting and abusing their patients, that wouldn’t help her. He is also not her therapist and cannot be her therapist for her.
If he had to leave her because it was hurting himself, that wouldn’t make him a bad person. That would make the situation tragic.
Hey dude, not true. I recovered my sanity in one of those deeeeadly “institutions”. If I had not been a 5150 and forced to go to a hospital, I would have died from suicide. Chill. Not all hospitals are out to get you. They’re trying to help you. Amber DESPERATELY needs to be admitted. She is literally a threat to herself and others. She needs medications and therapy.
Sadly, a lot of people’s distrust of hospitals is horribly justified. Probably far fewer than the baseless phobias, but still enough to be concerning.
That said, I’d still say it’s better to err on the side of assuming highly trained professionals can do their jobs.
That’s the quandry. If 49% of hospitals and doctors were dirty, that would mean the system is horrifically corrupt and totally dangerous and not to be trusted. Heck even 10% is far too high. On the other hand, 49% corrupt means that 51% still do their job properly.
On one hand, there is just no substitute for profesional medical care. Even relying on amatuer healers and folk remedies still exposes you to a high percentage of frauds and fake cures… probably even higher than anything in the profesional field.
On the other hand, who wants to play russian roullete with their treatment??? Saying 90% of doctors are good people is like saying russian roullete only has 1 bullet out of 6 chambers… it’s still terrifying odds.
…
I’m in almost the same situation as Pippy. Proper treatment saved me from destroying my life.
ON THE OTHER HAND, it took me several years to find a doctor who gave me the correct diagnosis! So, yeah, I know the feeling of “this is useless, no one can help me, these guys just want money and don’t help me….”
Even if they’re trying to help you doesn’t mean they’re not traumatic and do harm along with their good.
I got into treatment off of an involuntary as well. Did I need treatment? Yes (which a stint off of my meds during a breakdown established). Was the hospital the best option? My involuntary admission was incredibly, incredibly traumatic for me, to the point where reading a detailed but intentionally nonthreatening description of an inpatient psychiatric setting has caused disassociation (which is something I have never experienced to my knowledge in any other context). My fear of ever returning has also damaged my ability to be honest and trustful of a therapist in any matters that could even distantly be related to suicidal ideation.
Additionally, I had the rather Kafkaesque experience of, after my 3-day involuntary hold ended, being coerced into voluntarily admitting myself under the threat of a possible monthlong involuntary hold, which rather contradicts the notion of it being voluntary. I suspect that their motivation in keeping me there had to do with their ability to continue to collect payments from my insurance.
I’m glad you had a good experience Pippy. But please understand that it is by no means universal.
Wow, this got long. And incredibly personal. I’m not sure I’ve ever shared this much of it openly. Sorry about that.Thank you for sharing. As someone constantly on the cusp of admittance, I would hate for something like that to happen. I’m sorry your experience was so traumatic and I hope you recover!
Dinawho, Thank you for sharing it here, does it make you feel any better or just the same as befoore to share it anon here?
I imagine you know how goodit is to read these thins and know we are not alone.
I *hate* the whole “if you do not voluntarily commit yourself we will involuntarily do it and make everything even longer and worse for you for the trouble” thing, and I’m sad to see that my experience was not at all unique on that front.
I think to me, the involuntary nature of the thing – combined with the terrifying lack of autonomy you have once you have been committed – make this wholly different than even the more generic hospital example given above. At least with other illnesses you can weigh the risks of ending up in the 49% of bad hospitals and choose whether to pursue treatment in the crummy system you have available.
With mental health, though, you have no choice in the matter…you could end up with a helpful experience as described above, or it could be more like mine: one where the 3 day involuntary is somehow finagled into almost a full week (arrival day doesn’t count, discharge day doesn’t count, weekends don’t count, etc), during which time you never once speak with a mental health professional except for a brief meeting where they attempt to bully you into voluntary commitment and every attempt to rationally, maturely take time to consider your options is labelled contrariness which can be used as further evidence to hold you against your will in the future.
Dina, thank you! What you wrote certainly made me feel better about my involuntary commitment at age 19. I attempted suicide. It is good to not feel alone.
Hospitals, doctors and medications are there to help us when we need it. But we, as patients, have to be proactive. You would have to take my medication out of my cold dead hands now that I finally have a “cocktail” that works. What made the difference for me was Lamictal, which is a mood stabilizer. I had the wrong diagnosis up until ten years ago.
Just because you had a good experience doesn’t mean they’re safe. Period.
People, just stop replying.
Love me senpai.
It’s so tempting, but this is like the third time this week. Whatever Idontcarenomore’s problem with Danny is, it’s not going to be resolved by pointing out they’re making stuff up. (Amber was on the point of suicide? Huh. That one’s new, isn’t it?)
Wait Amber was at what point now? (Reads the OP, which I initially skipped because I kinda of guessed what it was about). Uh, that is a new assertion. Sometimes I wonder what comic OP is reading. Because it’s certainly not the comic I’m reading.
IDontcarenomore is trolling. Even more, it’s
Insane Troll Logic
As Petra said, he didn’t “dump Amber to hook-up with Amazi-girl”, he refused to get any more involved with Amber when he was already dating Amazi-girl.
Since he learned they were the same person, he’s always been the one pushing to be with Amber, not just with Amazi-Girl.
Even with the “Mask or no Mask” thing, while the regular strips imply he responds “Mask”, even there in the follow-up strip, both Amazi-girl and Amber are there, still cuddling Danny. In the slipshine, it’s even more clear that she’s using the mask because she’s more comfortable that way
I hope that IDontcarenomore is enjoying the comic he is reading as much as I enjoy the comic I read.
tchnically amber asked “Mask or no mask?” meaning she was fine either way, which implied she was more than willing to be “Amber” and not “Amazi-girl” in that moment.
So you can kinda understand why he’s confused since she’d be fine with sex without the mask, but not simple kissing.
The alt text for that strip says “That’s either an extremely loaded question, or merely a kinky one.” Danny probably thought it was the latter, because he had no idea the question could be anything else.
He’s not in love with her, he doesn’t even know her really. He likes what he thinks he understands about her. But being in a romantic relationship with someone this unstable is only going to make it worse. He shouldn’t abandon her completely but the relationship should end.
I’d say that Danny knows her pretty well, actually, more than anybody except for Ethan anyway. It’s just that he, you know, doesn’t have all the answers because Amber has major problems she’s been hiding, and like the idealistic dope that he is he just rolled with it and ate up every answer.
But now he knows that the third-person naming isn’t a cute dodge anymore, now he knows she’s not out taking care of the “bad guys”, now he knows that this hole runs deep, and he’s going to try and pull her out because that’s the kind of person he is.
I mentioned this already, but ending the relationship now would be a bad idea. It can’t continue as is, obviously, but Amber doesn’t need to be shut out from things just because she’s “cuh-razee”. She can get help and have a boyfriend who cares about her.
Are continuing as her boyfriend or abandonding her completely the only choices here? Could he not be a friend to her, thus avoiding the damage to both of them that an ongoing, potentially deepening, romance would cause?
Of course not, but I disagree that Danny can only cause her pain by dating her. Wouldn’t having Amazi-Girl’s boyfriend stick with her, and insist that she is actually worth it and a good person help her work through her self loathing?
I guess I don’t see the distinction between “Danny cares as a friend” and “Danny cares as a boyfriend.” Both are going to involve him trying to help.
I don’t think anybody claimed that dating her would ONLY cause her pain. I saw people suggesting that if the relationship becomes harmful to him that he might need to break up with her. That’s not the same thing.
And they are separate things because one involves being much more intimate with a person. Being a little more distant makes it easier to take care of oneself.
I understand what you’re saying but I feel like it’s a bit extreme. It implies that anyone sufficiently unstable from a neurological standpoint shouldn’t be in a relationship. And while I agree that relationships founded out of instability are cause for concern I wonder where the line is drawn where a person is healthy enough to be in a romantic relationship.
Is it when they only have one personality? Or when that personality ceases to be self destructive? Maybe it’s when the single personality stops putting up emotional barriers that keep the personality from bonding with other personalities.
My point is that mental health is a grey topic, and while people can certainly cause harm to each other by bonding while under the effects of psychological disorders they can also help each other. And telling people who are suffering psychological pain that they should be alone is a strange and possibly hurtful path to direct them down.
I was in a relationship with a person who was “unstable” (I don’t know why, but all the words to define mental illness sound… wrong when talking about him). It was hard, and towards the end I started to suffer from it, mentally. I wanted to do my best because I really loved that person, and he clearly loved me too. The relationship ended after some time in a pretty confused way (we had a fight, I said I was getting tired of feeling like I always had to be there for him, he got hurt, we both got hurt and decided to break it off).
We’re still friends now, though. We meet regularly and talk with each other and make jokes. It’s fun.
My point is… I don’t know. That relationship was certainly “harder” than any other I ever had, but I still remember it fondly – well, maybe not fondly, but I certainly have good memories associated with it -, and I think in the end it benefited both of us, especially since we managed to stay friends after all that had happened. I wouldn’t suggest anyone dates, I don’t know, a psychotic serial killer, but saying that mental instability should stop you from having romantic relationships is wrong; it is indeed difficult to decide at what point that instability becomes “too much”, though.
To be honest I remember reading somewhere that if you have a friend/spouse/partner etc. with depression or some other mental illness and you want to help and be there for them, you need to remember that the negative emotions, feelings and problems can often have an effect on yourself as well. And you should be sure to I guess “take breaks” (i dont remember the exact wording) since being exposed to it can often have an effect on you.
Obviously not to like abandon the person dealing with these problems but you should maybe not be trying to help 24/7. (the thing I read specifically spoke of depression but i think it can apply to other mental illnesses as well..)
Similiar to physical illnesses now that I think about it.
The longer your around someone with the flu the more likely you are to catch it.
And while you cant “catch” mental illness from another person, being around it can have a negative effect. Not to the effect to the actual person afflicted but you know what I mean
Now this could have been complete horseshit but from my experience it seems to be true.
Sorry that was real rambly.
No, you’re right. It’s the same whether you yourself are mentally ill or not, and it’s the same if what you’re involved with is something like activism or justice or social work. If you are constantly exposed to negative thoughts and emotions, be it a depressed loved one or a broken and unjust system you seek to fix, or anything really, you need breaks no matter what mental health state you yourself are in.
It wears you down. It eats at you. Everyone needs brain candy, or just time to themselves to recharge. Something.
^this (sillyname)
I’m not a fan of how you said that “unstable” people shouldn’t be in relationships. That feels pretty ableist to me.
This. They have been together…what, a month? A month.
Do we know they’re in love? Even if they’ve said they are, are they in love? I don’t want to put limits on Amber, bug given her current treatment of Danny it seems as though there’s a bit of non-love going on.
I feel safe in assuming so, if only because Danny doesn’t do things by half measures.
As for Amber, well, she definitely relies on him for support. She’s said as much. I think it’s too early to say either way with her but she definitely appreciates him.
It doesn’t have to be Joyce-O-Vision perfect love, but I think it’s clear they both care about each other a lot.
People who passioantely, completely love each other don’t always treat them well. They don’t always put them first, make good decisions, always keep all their anger and self-loathing in check… She could love him more than anyone else loves anyone else in the comic, and still snap at him and make him feel terrible.
I think one of the problems of having an abusive parent is that it screws up your idea of what love is supposed to be like.
I was really expecting “I guess Danny’s free to date Amber now” from that sentence
But Amber isnt free to date Danny 🙁
Amazi-Girl didn’t even make an appearance in today’s comic – no blue speech bubbles. This was all Amber, slamming him down hard.
I didn’t say it would make sense.
Well, Willis did say Danny and Amber were doooooooomed because someone asked for them to stay together.
But wait.
That was less than a month ago, which means Willis has been planning this out.
Which means…
DAMN YOU WILLIS!!!!!!!
Well, he does have a regularly updated buffer of strips, so of course he had this planned out a while in advance.
She was gonna call Danny a name but she quickly realized there is nothing she could call him that would be more offensive and degrading than Danny.
Lmaoooooo
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayum
“you stupid piece of Danny”???
BURN
Is it worse to be a piece of Danny, or a whole Danny?
A whole Danny is at least a complete entity. A fractional Danny is even less of a person.
Well, a partial fraction of a negative number is less-negative than the full number.
It definitely sucks to be any Danny right now. No win scenario.
I haven’t read them all yet but so far you’re winning the “best comment” contest.
Now THAT’S low.
So if Danny is worse than a bongo, that makes him a… djembe?
Danny is REALLY good at the sad pathetic faces isn’t he?
It’s his natural disposition.
Holy crap Amber.
Holy shit
I’ve never felt bad for Danny before, but I’m afraid for him now.
Like, she looks like Blaine in that red panel
I think the face on the last panel is her realizing that.
Amber’s cracking up pretty fast here…
Yeah… It’s her realizing Mike is right.
And she talked about killing Mike when he brought that up …
She suggested
I wouldn’t say it’s her realizing Mike was right. She had fears that she was turning into someone like her father well before Mike threw that at her.
The face in the last panel actually looks like a very girly pleading “senpaaai~!” face like danny had in the last strip. But, man, talk about mood swings. She didn’t even need a realization panel. She went 0 to repentance in one.
From the looks of it, she nearly made him fall off the wall by pushing him.
Nah, I sit like he is in the 3rd panel all the time, it’s a fairly stable position. That said, she might have pushed him off, and then she berated him with terms and phrases that sound very Blaine-esque, which is very bad from her perspective.
Checking the last strip, where he was sitting was at the very edge of the wall already.
While it’s unclear here whether or not she pushed him away or leapt back herself, their original positions indicate it was her leaping back. Had she pushed him any measurable distance down the wall he would have fallen off.
Like I said, it’s a stable position. You have an entire denim-clad leg in contact with the surface, your other leg is in a perfect position to stop your movement in any of 3 directions, it’s going to be really hard to actually move Danny from there. She could easily have pushed him and gotten nowhere, then moved back as soon as she realized what she did.
I think that’s the point. She’s extremely afraid of becoming her father, which is why she compartmentalizes and pushes away from Danny. She has some of the angry and hostile traits of him, but in the last panel, she realized what she did.
Which strip is your gravatar from, Airyu? It’s a pretty cool Becky-face.
It’s Becky with a recent Joyce-face.
Ah, got it. One of my favorit strips even. Thanks!
That’s the point, I think.
I thought of this.
[start at 2:24]
I feel bad for him all the time. He has to be Danny, like, every day.
Yeah this strip hit a nerve and reminded me of my ex. She called me a dumb c*nt and a b*tch several times in fits of anger, and I’d just be reduced to a crying, apologizing mess even if I didn’t do anything wrong.
Damn you, Willis, making me relate to Danny of all people
It hurts, but it had to happen. Poor Amber.
So if Amber is going the Paranoia Agent route, that leaves the important question: Who is Shonen Bat? Sarah, because bat? Carla, because skates? Or Mike because Redemptive Violence?
It’s Joyce.
Ooh. Twist, but her attitude would be foreshadowing. I like it. (And all the other suspects make convincing red herrings!)
For once, Dan didn’t dan it up, and this is how it goes down?
He did Dan it up – and I didn’t realize it either. Oh Danny.
I find it hard to blame him for this. Whatever Amber thought she was telling Danny, it doesn’t sound simple at all. Especially since she’s flirted with him while being Amber when meeting his parents.
Thank you for this. She asks him to keep them separate, but that’s very unusual, and they flirt when she’s not in costume all the time. And she’s never really explained the depth of her compartmentalization.
He didn’t Dan it up. If Amber had been healthier, kissing her would’ve been a fine thing to do. This one’s on Amber having issues that are much too big for either of them.
If she treated Amazi-Girl like he thought she did (simply as a character played by Amber), the outcome probably would have been what he expected.
Remember, kids: surprise kisses are never okay. Even if one happens to be welcome, getting consent (nonverbal) is still better.
So, he did Dan it up.
While in general I completely, completely agree to this, the situation here is super weird. Danny thinks he and Amber are dating. Yes, Amber has told him multiple times that he is only dating AG, but to him that difference isnt stark. He prbbly doesnt consider AG and Amber as two separate people. And the fact that Amber does is extremely unhealthy.
To him, it was his girlfriend who went through extreme danger. Someone with whom he has already been physically and emotionally intimate. He got emotionally overwhelmed by the situations (and the self deprecation) she described. The kiss prbbly was a combination of “holy shit you are awesome” + “i am so so glad you are ok” + “dont treat yourself this way, you are awesome”. It was an emotional response, but he thought he was kissing his girlfriend and make her feel supported.
I dont see what he did wrong there.
“He did what he thought was right” is exactly why the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Cough cough, Ross, cough?
It is a valid point that surprise kisses are generally questionable from a consent point of view (though this one at least doesn’t have the compounding factor of intending to silence her, despite interrupting), but that isn’t what Amber is getting upset with here. She’s upset because he kissed Amber.
Scrolling down, I’ve learned that “dannying” has other definitions. I thought it was just being unjustifiably clueless, but “making things worse by trying to make them better” fits this situation too.
…it’s just that, in this case, his little bit of clueless is dwarfed by Amber’s whole lotta issues.
This is not Danny’s fault, he’s trying to be a compassionate boyfriend in the situation; he can’t be held responsible for Amber’s actions here. She’s got some serious fucking issues, issues that aren’t her fault, but, nonetheless, issues that obviously can cause he to behave in erratic and destructive ways towards herself and others. Dealing with that shit is not a job for a guy she’s been dating for a couple (days? weeks? hard to keep it straight) it’s a job for a psychologist.
Can someone link where she gave instructions?
The instructions were to date Amazi-Girl not Amber.
In the past, he offered to break up with Amazi-Girl and be with Amber and she wasn’t entirely comfortable with that, basically because she likes Amazi-Girl more than she likes being Amber.
Here you go.
Uh
what
That’s alternate universe Amber giving instructions.
Doctor Who points out that TheBitterRabbit asked a very imprecise question.
Am I the only one who really doesn’t like Amber? She reminds me of myself, just…more psychotically broken. I’m more of a depressed bundle of sarcasm and bitterness.
Amber reminds me of me too, and I don’t like me, so I don’t like her by extension
I’m still grateful for her existence in this comic though
I like all the characters that are awful because I love awful people.
she is starting to remind me of myself. I have started to deal with my stuff….. oddly as well just not the way she does. for me I more try to shut off my emotions not split them up into two different versions of me.
I don’t like Amber, but now it’s all awkward because I’m the only one that she doesn’t remind of themselves.
I like Amber , But she does creep me out, to identity as her.
I had her icon for a long time.
At first i thought it was awesome. But It was soo long , I would see Ambers icon and think “thats me” .
Then I started noticing odd similarities , and they bugged me. But I didnt change it because , If I was just uncomfortable with a gender-flipped icon that resembled me , i thought I should grow out of it. But it just creeped me out more and more. I started obsessing over other ways I might secretly be like her, and it bothered me more and more.
Turns out , it really was just Amber. This icon looks even more like me ( if a young Pubescent me ) and I love it. No creepiness at all.
Nah man I getchu, we on the same boat brudduh
Probably not the only one, probably not for the same reason though.
I like Amber because she’s over all a good person even if I don’t always agree with her methods or with specific actions.
Other people may feel those actions cross too far a line for them.
But she is someone deserving of sympathy at least because her life sucks a lot of the time. Even if I don’t lay everything out, most of her life had Blaine in it and he’s pretty horrible. >w>;
Agree.
amber’s a good person. she’s broken, but so is everybody. she’s not trained to deal with these problems the way she probably ought to, but she’s trying to be good and sometimes trying to be good makes you good. you just have to be serious about it, which i think anyone who sees what she puts herself through can agree with.
I’m glad to say she doesn’t remind me of me. I only have ONE crazy person in my head and that’s more than enough for me.
I like her, but I’m not sure I’d want to be her friend.
You’re not alone. I don’t get why she’s so popular man
Because she’s Batman? Amber/Amazingirl is basically Willis’s deconstruction of Bruce Wayne, just with an abusive parent as the childhood trauma as the catalyst for her psychosis instead of “My parents are Dead!” Initially, we were all like, “cool, she’s Batman!” Now, on closer inspection there’s the realization that if you dress up in long underwear and a mask and beat the crap out of people, you may not be entirely stable. Bruce Wayne sure ain’t.
Did any Batman comics or movies make a serious deconstruction of Bruce Wayne’s coping mechanisms like that? I mean, the Batman isn’t (originally at least) a separate personality, but he could at least be compartmentalizing, and I’d love to see that explored… With how consumed he is with being the Batman, it feels like Bruce Wayne could potentially be just a public front, and effectively dead. If there is anything like that in new comics I just might get back into them. (As a kid I was reading / watching mostly classic 60s Batman, so it hadn’t reached it’s deconstruction phase yet)
Batman isn’t a separate personality because Batman is the only personality. It’s been said again and again that Bruce Wayne is a lie batman keeps up only for cover. Yes, over the years Batman has been dissected and it’s not a pretty picture, he’s ultimately never grown past the age o 8 years old. He’s a child pretending to be an adult, lashing out into the darkness, reliving the trauma of his loss again and again and pretending he can fix things. That’s why he keeps taking in children as wards, they’re the only people he can relate to on the same level. Even Superman and Wonder Woman don’t really get him, they want to, they want to be his friends but he can’t.
There were a bunch of cross company crossovers in the 90’s. One was a Batman/Punisher one shot. Frank Castle is confronting The Joker and The Joker tells him “Whatever happened to you happened when you were an adult. You picked up guns and started killing people. Hey, it’s psychotic, but it’s an adult reaction. Now Batman, whatever happened to him, happened when he was a child. He reacted the way a child would, dressing up and fighting crime.”
According to a brief exchange in Batman Beyond, Bruce Wayne doesn’t view Batman as a secondary personality.
He views Batman as the primary personality, and Bruce Wayne as the secondary personality.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Batman_Beyond (CTRL+F for “voices”)
This is not the full deconstruction you were asking for, but it does point out that your idea is pretty true. (There might be a better moment in the comics, but I don’t follow them.)
Back in the 90’s I remember an exchange between Superman and Batman. The gist of it was, Superman is a costume Clark Kent puts on so he can help people and still have a personal private persona. He thinks of himself as Clark. Which holds up since Lois Lane outed him in the current continuity and he just goes by “Clark” now and seems mildly annoyed at being called “Superman”. In the same exchange, Batman basically says that Bruce Wayne is a front that allows him to be Batman. Bruce is an act, Batman is the real personality.
I guess I feel like, overall, you have Batman the dark avenger vs. Bruce Wayne the public front vs. Bruce the man who inhabits both of them. which is kind of a id vs. ego vs. superego kind of deal in some ways. it depends on the continuity whether you’re dealing with separate alters or separate personas, I think, though.
Just to complicate matters further, I’ve heard it said that “Bruce Wayne, dandy” and “The Batman, terror of criminals” are both masks worn for different purposes – the most real, most true, is the Bruce we see down in the cave, with the cowl off, doing the detective thing and interacting with his family.
and now I actually re-read what you said, zoe, and that’s pretty much what I was trying to say too. d’oh.
There’s a big difference between her and Batman, in that, in most incarnations, Batman does not consider himself to be two different people. He considers his Bruce Wayne persona to be an act, but that’s different. He doesn’t think Bruce Wayne is his own person, he’s just a character Batman plays when not in costume.
Meanwhile, Amber seems to think she and Amazi-Girl are different people, which is not how secret identities work.
And I never really saw her as Batman. I saw her as a stupid teenager dressing up in a goofy costume to pretend to be a superhero, just because she had Daddy issues/Sal issues. At least Batman had actual crime to motivate him– his parents were murdered in front of him. Amber’s motivation is “My dad is a huge asshole and also I saw a robbery once”.
She’s a well written character, but I don’t like her.
She reminds me of myself too. I can relate to her. Not that I am proud of the qualities that make us similar, but I feel empathy for her, so in that way, I do like her.
Not a big fan of calling her psychotic. It’s pretty ableist. She isn’t experiencing psychosis and people who do are already stigmatized enough as it is.
what is the actual line for her experiencing psychosis. I don’t know, I’m genuinely asking. is there a specific set of symptoms that say psychosis as opposed to the unhinged behavior that amber is exhibiting?
Yes, there is. Look it up.
Amber is angry and upset and scared, and she probably has DID. She’s not psychotic though.
I am looking it up, but I also figured we could probably start a dialogue here too. I was just trying to learn something new and gain a new understanding. Sometimes it’s helpful to learn these things from other people so you can compare it to the things you learn on your own and reach new perspectives.
I’m not familiar enough with psychosis myself to say concretely what exactly it is because I’ve never experienced it. It would be better to talk to people who actually do experience psychosis.
You say that as if you’re not talking to a “normal” person. Sorry my personal experiences with mental disease have left me unsympathetic to those who adamantly REFUSE to do anything positive in their lives.
Nice assumptions, bruh. From my point of view, Amber is a little psychotic. She’s not completely detached from reality, but there’s definitely some kind of disconnect.
You PC, bruh?
I don’t dislike any of the main characters except for Mike, who sometimes reminds me of myself at that age.
Nope, I haven’t liked her since I first saw her committing assault for mild vandalism and property destruction.
*plays Loggins & Messina’s “Angry Eyes” on the hacked Muzak*
Frozen – let it go.
looks like someone needs a shot of Bring Down Blue
I am starting to wonder if she actually has a split personality aspect to her psyche now or if it is a way for her to try to seperate herself from certain aspects of life now.
She’s described herself as compartmentalizing, so I think it’s a distinction she consciously creates and doesn’t want to mix up.
Compartmentalizing to the degree we’re seeing her do is WAY past the line of just calling it a coping mechanism, though.
Yeah, I think this is a thing she’s done on purpose more than anything else.
It seems to me that she still can and does consciously assume the Amazigirl persona, which she does in two main situations: When Amazigirl is called to be the hero (eg with the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit or Joyce asking for her help last chapter), or as a therapeutic escape from elements of Amber that scare her (such as when she put on the mask after punching Blaine in the hallway on Parents’ Weekend). After that red panel today, she may need more of the latter.
She also seems to undergo involuntary shifts into Amazigirl when confronted by reminders of her traumatic memories, especially Sal. This category is somewhat indistinguishable from the last one mentioned at times, as it’s hard to tell whether she is consciously or subconsciously becoming Amazigirl in such situations.
Everyone needs so many hugs right now.
This… made me sad.
Same here…
Okay, anyone still mad at Sal for calling out Amazi-Girl for being really, REALLY dangerous? Not me, not after this.
Wait, people were mad at Sal about that? Being wary of Amazi-Girl after she picked a fight for no reason?
Except Sal has no idea what’s going on in Amber’s head, or the events that brought her to this point. Sal probably doesn’t have any deeper theory about Amazi-girl than that she’s some comic geek who’s gotten carried away with the idea of superheroes.
Sal doesn’t know the details but she knows the feeling. Sal just snapped earlier than Amber and compensated differently.
Amazi-girl tried to chase down a man in a car with a gun and a hostage, on a skateboard. Sal doesn’t really need a deeper understanding of her psyche to have a problem with that.
She didn’t merely try. She did. And she saved everyone but herself.
She caused a huge car accident and would have been killed if not for Sal understand she was going to do that.
It was Ross who caused the car accident!
Amber blew out the tires with caltrops.
Still pretty sure the main causative factor there was butthole dad just deciding to stop driving it so he could climb out the friggin’ window while the car was in motion.
Regardless of that success, it would be better if AG stopped. Matter of time before she puts someone innocent in danger.
That sounds more like Billie tbh. Sal doesn’t get it, but she’s implied (after the car chase) that she assumes it’s because issues.
What makes you think Sal doesn’t get it? If you look at their histories they’re actually pretty similar. Years of parental neglect and abuse led to them acting out until they snapped.
I meant that Sal doesn’t get what the exact thing is, not that she wouldn’t understand or hasn’t got an idea. Sorry, bad wording.
I wasn’t mad at Sal for calling Amber out. I was mad at her for doing it in that self-righteous, condescending way. I was mad because Sal didn’t say anything that had even the slightest chance of helping Amber.
Sal expended just enough effort so that she could tell herself that she did good, and if Amber gets herself killed later then “oh well, serves her right.” It’s like patting yourself on the back for giving a bandaid to a gunshot victim: if that’s all you’re going to do then don’t fucking bother.
Just because Sal happened to be right doesn’t mean she was doing Amber any favors by lecturing her like that.
I disagree, because Sal had legitimate reason to think that Amber was antagonizing her, and because “I was mad because Sal didn’t say anything that had even the slightest chance of helping Amber”- Sal didn’t have to be a dick, but Sal also had no obligation to somehow help Amber.
agree with both of your points. I’m not mad at Sal because she didn’t try to help Amber. I’m mad at Sal because she pretended to try to help Amber. If Sal had just pointed out all the unprovoked crap Amber was putting her through, that would have been fine. But she didn’t. Sal chose to condescend to her instead. Eveyone wants to give Sal a huge pat on the back for scolding Amber and threatening her in ord to make Amber stop the superhero gig, even though it is PAINFULLY obvious that Sal DOESN’T know what Amber has been through, and giving Amber a self-righteous rant does NOTHING except let Sal feel better about herself.
“So was that slipshine me partially cheating on you? Was that a threesome? I need someone to re-establish the parameters of this relationship of ours.”
I think it’s not really the mask that determines whether it’s Amazi-Girl or Amber. It’s a good indicator but not 100%.
We’ve seen Amber wear the mask and costume; we’ve seen Amazi-Girl without it. I don’t think we’ve ever seen Amber do the voice, but we’ve certainly seen Amazi-Girl not use it. I think the only reliable indication of which of her she is, besides the character tags, is that Amber has cheek blushes and Amazi-Girl doesn’t. There are a couple strips where they come and go as she switches personae.
She is more messed up than i thought, if she has issue with Danny kissing her when she is both of her personas…
Dangit, Amber.
I mean, she lashed out because her compartmentalizing is being compromised, but there’s no doubt she uses this as just another example of why she is clearly the worst person ever.
^this^
Thank you ~ That sounds like what I was thinking, but it would have taken me a lot more words to express it.
Blaine’s not around to put her down anymore, but she’s still doing it for him. (That interpretation is colored by my own experiences, but that’s what I’m seeing)
Yeah, Amber’s problems didn’t go away when she defeated her supervillain. Blaine isn’t a permanent fixture in her life anymore, but the effects of his abuse are still there. Even if Amber could recognize it as sick and wrong and totally not her fault, she’s still left with a big empty void, and she has to start finding ways to healthily process her anger.
…. So… What,s going on? I’m getting less a “she’s broken” vibe and more a “dangerous manipulative psycho” vibe.
Mostly, lashing out and then apologizing.
Amber is painfully aware that the rotten apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
She’s both. She broke and the result is an angry violent, unstable girl with self esteem issues and the inability to like or cope with all of herself.
She is dissociative, she recognizes that she IS Amazigirl, but she thinks of herself and Amazigirl as two different people. To her, there is a clear difference between herself and Amazigirl, they’re just not the same person. She has to consciously remind herself that they are the same person, so her kneejerk reaction is to act on feelings of betrayal, followed by the awareness that Danny didn’t actually do anything wrong. The same way that she does, “Amazigirl – me,” because she has to stop and remind herself they’re the same person.
But, yes, this is still dangerous and abusive territory. It’s learned behavior which she needs to overcome because calling your loved ones stupid is not appropriate behavior. It’s just not. She needs therapy to overcome her trauma and learn how to react to others appropriately.
I think that’s it. She’s balancing dangerously on the line here and I think she’s aware of that, but her reaction is to feel a deep sense of shame and self-loathing for it. Which isn’t really going to help her, I think that feeds into her compartmentalization more. However, she has realized almost immediately that she stepped over a line, it looks like, which is promising and shows that she could still try not to go down that path.
A lot of it, I think, is that most people don’t really grow up with any real example of what a healthy relationship looks like. I know I didn’t for all of my childhood. In the media, most relationships are either the goal of the arc that ends the story (so we never see the relationship, really) or condone abusive behaviors like stalking and manipulation. So I think part of it is that she knows what she just did is wrong, but what is the right thing instead?
That last sentence hit me waaaay too close to home.
IMO, whenever she has a realization of how broken she is, she pins that on Amber. Amber is broken, Amazi-Girl is just fine.
It’s not abusive, people should stop throwing this word around. She’s not trying to manipulate Danny or exert power over him. She’s acting on kneejerk reactions, yes, it’s not good, it might be toxic for their relationship, but she’s not being abusive.
This “mental illness = abuse” trope needs to die a quick but painful death.
I’m 100000% with you on the “mental illness=abuse” thing. We need to nip that in the bud, it’s ableist and wrong. However, she’s still being abusive. Abuse comes in many forms; not just manipulation, but neglect, too, misusing your relationship, and very importantly, insulting, derogatory behavior. Not controlling your anger and throwing it at someone is abuse. She shouts at him and goes all red panel. She over-reacts. That’s abusive. Now, she realizes what’s happening, and immediately goes to apologize. The reason she’s so upset is because she understands she’s just been abusive. That doesn’t make her an abuser, but abuse is happening, if only for one panel. Not all abuse requires forethought. I would say most does not.
She’s not a bad person. She’s a person who really needs help. But needing help, being mentally ill, doesn’t mean you can’t be abusive. Those words are abuse.
Yep. ‘If someone has a mental illness, then they are abusive’ is a false statement. However, ‘If someone is abusive, then they do not have a mental illness’ is also a false statement.
Amber is obsessed with control. She is obsessed with controlling herself, and is becoming someone who controls others in order to do so.
If Danny dates Amber, he dates someone who realizes she doesn’t have that control. If he dates Amazi-Girl, she has that control.
Amber realized she lashed out and treated Danny unfairly because she has internalized Blaine’s emotional abuse, and dumped some of Blaine’s tactics on Danny.
If Amber doesn’t keep herself in check, she could become like Blaine. She realizes this and uses Amazi-Girl to do so. Danny is forcing her to take on the world as Amber, which is scary to her, so she pushes him away.
She’s litterally reusing her father’s words in panel 4.
Girl is a hot mess.
Oh geez.
This strip hurts my heart.
I’m getting some serious Blaine vibes from that red panel…
Especially since the line sounds like it could be something Blaine might say.
Panels of Red, those I dread. Panels of Red, those I dread!
Red panels in the morning, Danny’s warning
Red panels at night, Danny’s warning
Panels are red,
Panels are blue,
Danny watch out!
Oh Danny not you too! 🙁
Red panels! Red panels!
Raise shields Mr. Danny.
Aye, Captain.
I see a red panel and I want to paint it black.
SEELE
01
SOUND ONLY
Yeah. Amber HAS to get some professional help after this.
She’s going to lose some friends, and some more-than-friends, before she realizes this, I think. It’s a story I know too well.
The only friends she has are Ethan, Danny and Dina. Two of them know enough to understand why and Danny’s more likely to blame himself than leave her.
I don’t think any of them is capable of getting her to get herself help. And I think only Dina might be willing to tell someone at the school that Amber needs help. She strikes me as the “risk losing a friend to save the friend” type.
I think Ethan would, his coming out drama seems to have drowned out just how badly Amber is doing mentally so he’s not as aware of the damage as he should be. If he knew I’m sure he’d do whatever Amber needed to make her healthy and happy.
That’s also very dangerous, tho. To Amber, I mean. There have been colleges that kick people out of dorms for admitting that they’re depressed and dealing with suicidal thoughts because the school doesn’t actually want to help. Dina saying something could also get Amber forcibly institutionalized which would DEFINITELY not help her. There has literally never been an institution that isn’t mostly abusive to it’s patients. So that could easily be even more harmful.
there is a longstanding tradition of unforgiveable abuse in institutions, but i think it’s a little hyperbolic to say that there has “literally never been an institution that isn’t mostly abusive to it’s patients.” because that simply isn’t true. there are institutions that are dedicated to care and protecting their patients, even thought they are all too few and far between.
Actually, it is true. I’ve been researching it. The problem with institutions is that they take away all the agency and autonomy of their patients and their oversight is minimal at best. Abuse is rampant because they have complete power over their patients, who are already marginalized on the basis of their disability. Very rarely do institutions ever get properly watched over and rarely are they held responsible for their crimes.
Professional therapy is why some of my favorite people are still alive. It sucks you had bad experiences, but you will no longer discourage seeking professional help on my website. Encouraging caution and constant evaluation is good, but vehemently attacking all kinds of professional help is absolutely not going to happen here any more. That kind of talk KILLS people. So, no. Stop.
I appreciate what you’re saying, I just can never bring myself to believe something that’s placed in such an absolute. especially since I have experience with Mental Health Institutes (both good ones and bad ones) and while the bad ones are terrible, there are good ones that exist. at least for a certain value of good. it’s never going to be a good place where people have to live forcibly for fear that they will hurt themselves or others, and it’s true that there isn’t a lot of oversight, but there are those that have oversight and built in protections and dedicated, caring staff. unfortunately it’s largely higher income institutions with patients who have nonviolent histories and dedicated families. it’s nowhere near a perfect system, and there’s still a lot of atrocity that can happen, but it’s a disservice to those who work to make the system better to say that it’s literally 100% corrupt and abusive.
Unless things get way, way worse, her getting institutionalized while being able to tell that there are issues, able to get to classes (or if it were relevant, work) and do basic self care is pretty unlikely. Maybe a brief inpatient stay if something happens and then therapy.
Also, is IU one of those schools? I get that what you’re saying is true, but there are also a lot of schools that do care about student mental health.
I don’t know if IU is one of those schools, but I haven’t had any reason to trust most colleges myself. And how would one even research that? I’d be too afraid to risk it, especially since her alternative if she gets thrown out of the dorms might be homelessness or moving back with her father.
No, she could move back in with her mother. Reading between the lines it is clear that her mother won custody and financial benefits in the divorce.
Two years ago when I started therapy while at school, there were doctors in employ of the school who I saw. What sort of schools are you attending/have you heard of that kick out students over mental health problems?
When I started therapy at school, it was a school with a counseling centre, therapists, and all that jazz. I had to get a therapist from the community because the school’s therapists didn’t do long-term treatment.
There was a student my senior year who, from what I heard, got kicked out for mental health reasons. Additionally, trying to push someone to take a leave of absence can end up sounding a lot like ‘leave and never come back’.
http://bellejar.ca/2015/02/10/suicidal-student-kicked-out-of-dorm-because-he-might-negatively-impact-other-students/
Okay, that’s twice in this thread that you’ve said that ALL mental institutions are corrupt and abusive. This is demonstrably untrue. Some certainly are, but it’s not even close to all of them. The one I was in after my suicide attempt was amazing. The staff was very dedicated and proactive about helping. Most of the patients were nice, friendly people going through a really rough patch. The partial hospitalization (which is basically an institution where you get to go home after eight hours; the closed ward is one hall over and shares staff and resources) I went to in a different city was the same experience, but with an upper limit on how rough a patch you were currently in. Several other people in the comments have also noted personal experiences with good mental institutions.
It’s attitudes like yours that stop people from getting help before the point where they need to be involuntarily committed. I hid my symptoms specifically because I was afraid of it. So please at least stop being hyperbolically inaccurate with your opinion.
Well, arguably Mike is her friend, but if ever there was a double edged sword…
Amber, stop Danning it it up.
Or we’ll need a new verb.
This isn’t Danning it up. Danning it up is making things worth by trying to do the right thing.
Read that as “Stop Damming it up.”
That could work, as she keeps damming up her emotions. #iDontDeserveThis #amazigirlTakesTheGoodAlongWithTheBad
The drama is starting to get dull. Not sure how much more of this comic I can enjoy in earnest.
Glad you told us…
Are you ready to order now? Oh, wait, no, my apologies.
I can see you’ve already been *served*.
Grab a napkin, cause you’ve just been served
Grab the wheel because you just got swerved
Am I doing it right
You really shouldn’t have cheated on AG with Amber you know… silly Danny.
Comment Section: “Oh shit, that’s what we sound like.”
The circle is now complete.
The daughter has become the asshole.
good…good…give into your hatred…strike Danny down and your journey to the asshole side will be complete.
Lesson learned: Don’t date superheroes or anyone with secret aliases.
Subset of “Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself.”
I feel like that includes basically anyone who is not Dorothy.
And we know how well THAT one worked for him.
They had a fine relationship for a few years, until Dorothy broke up with him in college because they wanted different things. With their relationship still being good enough for Danny to feel comfortable with telling Dorothy he’s bi.
Dorothy broke up with Danny when she left for college. But he didn’t take the hint seriously and followed her to college. He tried to keep the relationship going.
Dorothy had to get harsh with him: told him flat out she was heading for the Ivy league and presidency and he would never get the grades as he hadn’t the drive. And she had no plans to continue a relationship with him and thought he knew it.
So then he knew it. She was a bit cold blooded but she did not try to hurt him on purpose. She has a goal.
Then Walky kinda side tracked her for awhile.
Which makes me wonder, how is Walky handling his first time ever failing grades at this time.
Dorothy broke with Danny in college, they were a thing until she realized Danny was making all his decisions based on her and where she was going and then he suggested she might want to stay after a while, she broke the relationship in that instant.
Eating his quizzes and not thinking about it, last time we saw.
But that would mean that you could sleep with someone saner than you, but they shouldn’t sleep with you back.
Damn your Vulcan logic!
Just don’t tell them about the rule and everything works out fine.
And there goes comic con dating..
All the points.
Holy shit. Someone get this girl some medical attention asap. This is really scary and she needs to talk to a doctor or she’s gonna end up hurting someone and/or herself. #SaveAmber2k16.
this always struck me as a dumb rule. I know that it has more to do with her own insecurities at this point, but why couldn’t he just date her and if anybody asks about amazi-girl say that he broke up with her, or more believably that he lied about the whole thing. who knows about his relationship with amazi-girl? Joe? doesn’t believe him and could probably keep a secret. Dorothy? in on the whole thing. Dina? in on the whole thing. billie? already thinks he’s nuts and that sal is amazi-girl so what’s the problem? I guess he wouldn’t want to be thought of as a liar, but it’s a little bit of embarrassment for the sake of being able to openly date the woman you love who you can’t date right now because you’re such an oblivious dork. I feel like this was addressed at one point but i don’t recall when or where in the archives.
Because Amber is a terrible person, a useless coward, and just generally shit. Only the cool, awesome, badass superhero who saves the day gets to have the nice boyfriend.
yeah, like i said, i know it’s really about amber not trusting herself in a stable relationship as is clearly demonstrated in today’s comic; i was just wondering if there was some actual logistic issue that i missed. Amber’s gonna get it together eventually and realize that she is good. Amazi-girl is good and she is amazi-girl, no matter what she says. then we can focus on Danny’s emerging sexual identity crisis.
Not so simple for Amber to do! Her longterm self-esteem problems are pretty crippling these days. It’s gonna take a whole lot of tough therapy for her to accept that she’s a good person and worth dating for her own merits, that everything she likes about Amazi-Girl came from her, too, that she’s not the terrible failure that she internalized from her entire childhood with Blaine. It’s not a logistics question, it’s one of changing her whole self-narrative, and that’s way tougher. Possible! But tougher.
no you don’t understand, it is exactly a logistics question that i am asking. I am wondering if i am missing plot information and am trying to figure out if it explains, outside of the very obvious mental issues that will not be easily solved and regardless of where you think the story will go, whether or not there is a logistical barrier to their being together because i’m not seeing it outside of the mental issues thing. It would help reinforce this part of the story for me, that’s all. I’m asking a very straightforward question that requires no examination of amber’s psyche at all.
Also can’t help that she asked Danny to choose before he knew, and he chose Amazi-girl.
did she ask danny to choose? i remember him making his own choice in that regard and her just kind of rolling with it. He is the most oblivious oblivioid in all of obliviville after all.
Not explicitly, but she was late meeting him as Amazigirl, and showed up as Amber instead, and later spelled out that Amazigirl’s a construct, not a real person. I could be wrong, but in my mind, that was her presenting him with a choice, and perceiving him choosing Amazigirl, regardless of whether or not he knew the choice existed.
The logistical issue here is that to not become like her father, Amber felt she literally had to become a different person.
That is not trivial to overcome.
okay. you’re right. you’re missing the point of the question i was asking but that’s fine because you are definitely not wrong. thank you.
this is the internet damnit, stop being so polite and reasonable when someone doesn’t fully grok ur query. I think the anwer is “no not really” but don’t trust a guy who thinks he forgot his keys att work despite already driving home in a car that requires said keys…
sorry, i’ll make sure to shout profanity and slurs next time. i would hate to ruin the aesthetic.
thank you for answering my question to the best of your ability
oh crap there i go again.
Oh and Ethan: in on the whole thing. It’s not like they have super big social circles. they don’t even have that many strong connections among the core group and it’s not like they have many outside friendships. I think they put way too much thought into this.
Okay, Amber is not in a reasonable or stable place mentally and emotionally. She’s dividing her personality traits between her personas but needs to keep them divided to feel some sort of stable. Danny does not understand this, neither does anyone else but he’s the only one she’s interacting with on an emotionally intimate level. So Danny keeps crossing her emotional lines and she can’t handle that.
yeah, no, totally she needs help, and danny isn’t the one to give it to her, but in a vaccuum, without those issues, is there a realistic logistical barrier to them being together that could not be reasonably circumvented? that is what i am really trying to figure out.
She said back when he first figured it out that if he dates Amber as well as Amazi-girl (or goes straight from dating AG to Amber) that they look similar enough that it will out her secret identity.
It’s the same reason she doesn’t wear AG’s hair, even though she likes it way better than the haircut she has now. She would love to wear AG’s hair all the time; but too many people are figuring out who she is, and if the wrong people (administration, the police) figure it out she could be in real trouble.
Danny already suggested that he dump AG and just date Amber some time ago, but she nixed the idea on those grounds.
–The bright side of that, though, being that he was willing to dump AG in order to date Amber. Which is a positive thing for Amber.
I appreciate you answering the question, but the thee part of my original post was laying out all the reasons I think that’s not really a danger. I think my conclusion is that the actual danger of her identity getting exposed (at least through this particular avenue) is minimal, but she probably sees it as a bigger deal than it is because of her issues and how nice it is to be able to control the emotional input of your life like that. Danny, for his part, is too wishy washy and oblivious to realize that there is very little danger in him dating amber and ignores the problem, at least until today. He seems to be realizing that this compartmentalization of amber’s life is not healthy and that it’s better that he try to be part of all of her life rather than just entwined in what is, admittedly a rather cool fantasy, but a fantasy nonetheless. Thank you for contributing to the discussion.
The real reason is because Amber sees herself as two different people, not one person who fights crime in a mask. This disassociation is what is fueling her actions now, and just choosing one piece of her over the other isn’t going to help either her or Danny. It could actually just make things worse, by making Amber feel that these two identities are interchangeable to Danny and that is obviously very upsetting for her.
In addition, I don’t think Amber sees herself as Amazigirl’s equal, and assumes that Danny deserves his superheroine girlfriend over the inadequate version she sees herself as.
What Amber needs is psychological help. She is the victim of abuse and trauma, which is manifesting in this split identity and her rage-filled outbursts. She recognizes both of these symptoms as unhealthy and I do believe there is honest effort to improve herself, but just knowing there is a problem doesn’t solve it. These kinds of issues are complicated, intricate, and can’t be ignored or simply avoided by switching a name.
but…but…logistics though. not talking about her mental issues, that’s beside the point.
Her psychological issues have to be addressed when discussing options to help her move forward, though. The logistics are fine if Danny dates Amber. The logistics are fine if Danny dates them both, but only talks about Amber. The problem is that Amber’s psychological state does not allow for these options.
okay, that’s all i wanted to know. If there were some logical reason why it would jeopardize Amber and/or Amazi-girl and/or Danny, than that would go a long way towards solidifying the story for me. it’s still a great story. It’s just a personal preference of mine that i was looking for clarification on. wasn’t trying to start a debate about Amber’s mental faculties.
Ignoring feelings is not logical. 🙂
oh my goodness, i never said to ignore feelings. this has gotten silly.
Not silly, your statements don’t make sense.
I apologize if i have been unclear. I am not making any kind of statement, I am asking a question. is there a barrier to their relationship apart from amber’s obvious and serious mental issues? pertaining specifically to her superhero identity and the risk of her being discovered. I’m not interested in anything else. I know she has issues and she desperately needs to address them. I’m not talking about those right now. I hope that clears up what i was trying to say. if not then i have no other ideas on how to make it clearer. i’m sorry.
um. I think that the issues are the barrier. Amber thinks that Danny dating both Amber and Amazigirl would hurt her secret identity; I think that she thinks that because she was already beginning to separate Amber and Amazi-girl as alters, and couldn’t deal with the cognitive dissonance. It’s not like Danny dating Amazigirl was something he posted on Facebook or something?? unless that is something I missed.
it is a typical superhero genre thing where the love interest can only date the mask or the person, re: Lois Lane, etc. this is sort of reconceptualizing that though.
tl;dr the major barrier to Danny and Amber’s relationship right now is the Amber/Amazigirl split.
but the secret identity trope has always been goofy. it’s not like it ever did what it was supposed to do for spider-man, or like it prevented peter parker and mary jane from getting together. it caused a lot of drama, sure but i always thought it was easily resolvable drama that could be solved by talking it through. obviously in this case that’s more difficult given all Amber is going through and her determination to not constructively talk about it. very few people would notice or care if he were to start dating amber is all i’m saying. i know there are other hurdles to overcome but that one seems pretty surmountable.
ohhh that makes more sense. Her issues are the sole barrier.
Her issues are the barrier. There isn’t a logistical issue.
As far as logistics go… One thing: a better question phrase might have been “if it weren’t for Amber’s current emotional issues, would there be any other reason Danny can’t date both of them or just Amber?” I think people just got side-tracked about what you were trying to ask, is all.
I don’t think there’s much that stands in their way besides her emotional issues. Danny doesn’t understand all the factors, I think, so it hasn’t occurred to him to suggest otherwise. (I think.)
Also they’re young adults and might be more likely to slip up and reveal her secret identity, but I don’t think that would occur to them anyways.
thank you. I admit, i probably should have phrased my comments a little more clearly, but i think there’s also an element of people being a little over-eager to start an argument or prove a point. i know it’s the internet, but still.
Danny actually suggested breaking up with Amazi-girl and dating Amber, soon after he found out, but she vetoed it.
Danny doesn’t understand all the issues, but he’s consistently been pushing towards “I want to date Amber, not just Amazi-girl” – yesterday’s kiss is just part of that.
As for logistics, any secrets are more likely to be blown by Amber & Danny acting like a couple when they’re officially not, than by some staged breakup with Amazi-girl.
That’s what I thought. I thought amber had vetoed it, but I had forgotten the specific scene in which it happened. it seemed like for reasons which could probably be easily circumvented if not for the barrier her mental issues constituted. Thanks.
Amber just Blained that situation hard.
I knew IT!
“Amber Gives Up” “Amber Hides”
Yup….
“I gave you the simplest fucking instructions….”
This is Blaine. These are Blaines words.
Not just Blaine’s words.
That’s Blaine’s body language, and that’s a dangerous place to be.
Yeah, dollars to donuts that those are exact words that Blaine used to throw at her.
Children of abusive parents have to be really careful not to grow up to be abusers themselves. That takes a lot of therapy that I’m betting Amber isn’t getting.
she got self defense classes instead. which we know how those are being applied.
word for word.
And her mother too, probably. Guarantee you she used to hear them a LOT, given how she immediately went into utter ‘wait SHIT’ in that last panel.
Amber, you idiot.
Y’all, she’s flipping out because Danny kissed her in PUBLIC out of costume. He just “Pass the mustard, Batman”‘ed her. It’s not a case of Amazi-Girl being vindictive towards Amber for stealin’ her man or anything like that.
Now, the rage, abusive behavior, and need to establish control that mirrors her father’s in that red panel? THOSE you should be concerned about.
Im fairly certain it runs deeper then that
as far as the whole kissing in public thing goes anyway
I just see a lot of “oh shit, Amber’s getting all dissociative identity on us!” above and, like. Look. I get that Amazi-Girl is her attempt to compartmentalize the shitty stuff bouncing around in her head that comes from being an abuse survivor, but I’m pretty sure the takeaway message of this strip is less “Amber thinks she and Amazi-Girl are different people” and more “Amber learned more from Blaine than she’s comfortable with.”
P sure it’s both
No, she isn’t. That’s what Danny thought was the problem. The problem is that it’s not just about convincing other people Amber and Amazi-Girl are separate; it’s about convincing herself of that. That’s why her behaviors started crashing into each other.
I think it’s more of a case of her needing to keep things separate. She compartmentalises a lot and now there’s a major part of her life that overlaps all these things and completely fucking shit up. Out comes the monster.
If that were all, the fact that no-one uses windows anymore would have been a mitigating factor. Come to think about it, she didn’t exactly compartmentalize those acrobatics.
IU is an all Mac & Linux campus?
Please. It’s all on cell phones and tablets these days.
They won’t be writing essays on phones, though, even smartphones. I’m not sure how practical it is on a tablet; I don’t own one.
Except Dorothy, who did exactly that at Joyce’s party
Danny: Amber, there’s like a billion windows everywhere.
Amber: Nobody uses those anymore. We got snapchat now.
We need joe to snap chat all this mayhem.
Good thing no one looks outside… Hence why she’s doing flips ok the wall. #doubleStandards
It’s been a public thing before, but I firmly believe that that’s not it this time.
That panel 4 was my nightmare scenario growing up. The thing I was so worried would one day happen with my terrible “affliction” of DID (I was a dramatic kid sometimes) that I did a whole bunch of bad coping strategies with my mental health for a good couple of years.
Amber there. Amber has crossed her internal line and she’s going to take that hard and unhealthily, justifying the worst of her coping strategies in self-injury and deepening the dissociation between her Amber and Amazi-girl alters and certainly guilt complexes.
And well, it’s easy to see why. Panel 4 is her channeling a lot of Blaine and echoing a lot of Danny’s parents. That Panel 5 look in his eyes is the sad scared kid who (in his mind) will never be seen as something to be proud of by his parents or his romantic partners. And it’s because Panel 4 Amber is dipping into emotional abusive behavior (very briefly and caught quick enough to not be fully abusive, but still…). She’s not trying to just rebuke him here, she’s trying to tear him apart and force him (very briefly) into a role where he knows his place with regards to reinforcing her unhealthy coping strategy for her DID. And it’s good she recognizes it and is likely going to flee from said behavior and it probably won’t (hopefully) become a running theme for her, but she’s also learning all the wrong lessons.
She’s convincing herself in Panel 6 that Amber needs to be denied joy and happiness and confidence, that she must wallow in her pain and her past abuse in order to protect. And well, that’s an easy trap to fall into when you have a “scary” alter in your head… up until the point you realize that that “scary” alter isn’t as scary as you think and might be a repository of some very important feelings (I mean, I know why Amber is scared of her anger and her pain, but they are a part of her and well… yeah, she’s been through Hell and suffered a lot of crap, she’s going to need to let that anger not in the unfocused haze of Amazi-girl or undirected like this, but as a bitter acknowledgment of what was messed up in how she was treated and in circumstance and in acceptance that that is an emotion she is allowed to feel and have access to).
Overall, it’s a heart-breaking tableau, because I’ve been where she is and I know that the path she’s running down in her blind panic is the one with all the hungry alligators and quicksand pits.
And she’s going to try and run from this -that’s what Amber does, when she can, it seems. And he’s either going to freeze, or chase her -and if he catches up to her, or grabs her arm -touches her at all, really, is there ANY chance she’s not going to snap and hurt him? Even if it’s pure reflex…
It is interesting to see it going from that angle, of managing identities and a fear of being found out/the extent of the isue being uncovered. My ex has did and she wasn’t aware of it until after we had been toether a few months. but once she realied what it was and told me, I realized this was not something new, she had been living with it for who knows how long. So for us it was very much the opposite where she had to reconcile her understanding of her life ith the notion of “me hasn’t always been me”. And that all that missing time in her life wasn’t just from the dtinking but rather from her handing off the wheel to a copilot she didn’t (but kinda did) know was there. It didn’t help just how petty and violent her alter tended to be either, but there always a way to manage anhting. Its just a shame this is the one time Willis time is infintily faster than normal time. I don’t think she ever popped between identies that fast, but man there were times I wish she did.
I haven’t seen her muchh since she got married but it was amaing for her us myych putting a name to what was going on helped to get our heads wrapped around things. Shame we couldn’t work the rest of our lives out.
This said everything I wanted to say! (Altho I’m not sure if she definitely has DID or not, partly cuz I don’t know much about it, but it fits what you’re saying about it.) But ALL OF WHAT YOU SAID. YES.
Hey, Cerberus, do you think that this could be the seed point of a distinct third alter – a violent, aggressive and abusive anti-Amber?
It’s theoretically possible, but my guess this is the Amber alter (which makes it worse) responding knee-jerk to the toxicity that has been dumped on her. Though this might be personal bias as I have an alter who gets internally abusive and will repeat the toxicity I’ve absorbed against the other alters (we’re making a lot of progress on this one, right now) so I can easily see this being an external version of that where in her panic she reflexively reached for something Blaine had said to her.
If that’s the case, then Amber the alter is going to take it hard, because Amber the whole person* has a very strong belief that Amber the alter shouldn’t be allowed X emotions to keep things like this from happening (which is 100%, in my experience, the opposite from the way to healthily handle this issue) and this will just serve to reinforce it.
*Ah, Alters having the same name as the whole, otherwise known as when grammar takes up drinking.
This is not Dannying things up.
This is Ambering things up.
AMBER ALERT!
yyyyyyyyeah i figured this would happen but i didnt picture it this bad
yep there it goes there’s the bandaid ouch
Damn poor Danny nothing can ever go his way, its a shame because he’s like one of the few “Not an Asshole” people in this comic.
Things might go his way occasionally if he could read warning signs in any way. They’ve been flashing in his face, brighter and louder with each day since this started and he’s missed almost all of them.
The problem is that his entire life is just one big flashing warning sign. Almost every single person he interacts with frequently is mentally unstable. It makes it hard to recognize what is normal.
… which “amost everyone” are you looking at? Amber and Ethan are the only ones I could really see there. I mean, I guess you could argue for Joe, but he’s not really unstable… just unpleasant.
Ethan?
Don’t forget he deliberately kissed Joyce just to spite Amber.
He’s nicer than most, but let’s not pretend he doesn’t have his moments.
Everyone has moments of spite, doesn’t make them unstable.
Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of ‘nearly everyone Danny meets is an asshole’.
I may be thinking of a different kiss, but I thought that was more a despite feeling guilty and Amber being there thing than a to make Amber feel shitty thing.
Considering he glared right at her during it spite is pretty likely.
timemonkey (can’t reply to you, so putting this on me), if I’m thinking of the same panel (I think it’s slightly before Amber flips the table?), I interpreted his expression way different- more like uncomfortable and can’t take his eyes off Amber because he knows she’s watching, but we’d need word of Willis to say which of us is actually right.
this guy
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/ohbytheway/
he might not be a jerk, but he isn’t perfect. he, like joyce and walky, commits the sin of complacency. he assumes that things will work out when he takes very few steps to make good things happen for himself. don’t get me wrong, in his last few appearances he’s shown some good growth, but there were a lot of opportunities for it before that he never rose to. he needs to learn to examine the situations that arise in his life and act on them rather than merely reacting. it’s hard for anyone to do.
Amber you are Blaineing D: please look for profesional help D:
Told ya it wouldn’t end well.
Schizo Amber comes to call and it ain’t pretty. Popping your cork at your boyfriend is no way to further a relationship, hon. Walk away slowly, Danno, just walk away. At least you got some.
That seems super unlikely. Danny is tremendously loyal. He is too sheltered to know what to do (get her help!), but he’s not gonna dump her for having problems, either.
–even though those problems cause her to be emotionally/verbally abusive. Not trying to downplay that; she almost pushed him off the dang wall just then. I’m just saying, Danny has never dumped anyone and he’s not gonna start today.
Fun fact: that’s not what shizophrenia means!!!
I initally misread it as ‘schizoid’, and it’s also not what schizoid means. The More You Know!
Dangit Danny, go for the hug first
And this is exactly why I’ve always hated this pairing. Amber needs love and support and help, not a boyfriend. Especially not a boyfriend who doesn’t have the slightest clue about her issues and is so acomidating as to actually live according to her messed up terms. I don’t want him to abandon her but I do want the romantic side to end and end asap.
Maybe this is where the tide turns? I don’t think there’s been a reason before now for Danny to think she’s actually having any serious problems.
One would think being her boyfriend would put him in a good position to give her love and support! Besides, very few people are qualified to help Amber, let alone dopey, overly romantic teenagers/.
And on a side note, I disagree with the idea that Amber “doesn’t need a boyfriend right now.” Yeah, the fun is over, and the painful reality has become clear, but it’s not like Danny’s going to give up on her. He loves her and he’s going to try to help.
I had a much much longer post in response to this but the site ate it. So I’ll sum up instead. Amber is currently too unstable to be anyone’s girlfriend, she literally can’t do any of the emotional things a relationship requires. Danny can’t be her boyfriend because he’ll only make things worse while trying to help and in doing so will be in danger of physical and verbal violence.
Amber yelled at him and then nearly burst into tears. Danny’s not in any danger.
I definitely think that not only can they not continue as is, but that Danny needs to severely reevaluate what Amber means to him and what he can do for her, and I think with what he’s seen today he’ll realize that something actually has to be done, but it’d be really shitty if the moral of the story was “having mental problems means you’re TOO CRAZY to love somebody, and you must be this sufficiently normal before you’re allowed.”
“You’re too shitty to deserve happiness” is essentially the sentiment that Amber beats herself up with, and kind of exactly why we’re here. I can’t imagine wanting to vindicate it.
Yeah, not what I said Willis. It would have been clearer in my original post but it was lost. I said she shouldn’t be in a romantic relationship in this state. She needs love and support to get better but that love and support should be of the platonic sort. She is not emotionally capable of reciprocating a romance right now. And Danny does not deserve the threat of emotional, verbal and physical abuse at all times if he steps on one of her triggers. It’s a simple sad fact that romantic love is not the solution tto all problems, saying ‘I love you’ and meaning will not fix problems like this. Amber needs help, not a boyfriend.
They should end it, get her the help she needs and then maybe try again.
I hear what you’re saying, Willis, but having a boyfriend is not the only way she can be happy. And not dating someone right NOW doesn’t mean she’ll never have a boyfriend again, either.
If I’m understanding correctly, it’s not at all a question of being a bad person. It’s more… how can you be happy with someone, how can you love someone, or trust them in a way that is safe and healthy for BOTH of you if you dislike and can’t respect or trust yourself? If you can’t be happy or at least content being yourself regardless of the other person’s presence in your life. Because in that case, it’s more like you’re hoping they’ll fix you than like you’re dating them. Amber needs love and support, but she shouldn’t be trying to support anyone else right now.
I’ve always thought “you can’t love anybody else if you can’t first love yourself” is pretty bullshit. There’s lots of times I don’t like myself, but I’m not about to annul my marriage every time it happens.
It’s a matter of degree, though. Part of my opinion on this is because I’ve seen friends get really badly hurt by trying to be the knight in shining armor for someone who just… couldn’t even see themselves as human, as worth anything. If you think of yourself as worthless scum, how can you trust your partner if they say anything positive about you? How can you respect them for choosing to be with you, and how do you feel secure in the relationship? I’m genuinely confused about this -it was among my reasons for not dating in high school, so more insight, if anyone’s willing, would be welcome.
Of course you can love other people if you don’t like yourself. But depending on the severity of the condition it’ll doom that relationship to ending badly. Not everyone is the same, it’s a matter of context. The way you’ve chosen to write Amber makes her not only self-loathing but also dangerous to others and THAT is the important part. If it was just a matter of depression or self-esteem then sure, a boyfriend would be fine, the love and support of a romantic partner would be good, but you’ve pushed Amber to a place where she’s a danger to others.
It’s true that “you can’t love anybody else if you can’t first love yourself” is bullshit. But you DO have to be capable of admitting that someone else might love you, and that they might have valid reasons for doing so. If you can’t, then you fall into the “You can’t possibly love me, I’m not worthy,” trap, which basically says that the other person isn’t competent to know who they love or why, and there is very little that can destroy a relationship as thoroughly as that.
What is that I hear Amber saying to Danny? That she’s not worthy of being loved? Hmm. Kind of a problem, there.
I’ve definitely dated while hating all that I am. I still loved them as much as they loved me. I didn’t understand why I mattered until a few years ago. Single and dependant on a partner to make me feel whole, I went through a ton of inner cleaning. I found out how to be on my own, how to appreciate the skills and talents I have (regardless on how good/bad I am), and to actually try fixing the flaws I was/became aware of.
At one point I told my friends the extent of how much I hated myself and thought they stuck around out of pity. They stuck around because they love me and they make sure I’m constantly reminded about that. I’m recently taken after 2 years of being single. My ex and I talked about it for a month before we decided to get together again. We know how to help each other through the bad thoughts and he helps me laugh away my jealousy.
I trust my loved ones with many things, why not trust their thoughts about me? I’m finally seeing what everyone else sees in me and I’m determined to keep improving. Being alone did help me jump-start a positive change but it hurt so much more. The last few months I’ve made so much more progress by having their support. I hope this gives you some sort of insight, I’m summing up a lot.
On re-reading, I think my post comes off as “if Danny and Amber break up it’s DEFINITELY because David Willis thinks less of people with mental health problems” so, I’m really sorry. That’s a super shitty thing for me to say, intent or not.
I should stop saying stupid things in the comments.
Hey, you have self awareness and that’s really important. We’re all allowed to say things that might not be great as long as we own up to them and that’s what you’re doing. Good job.
We all misword things from time to time, don’t worry about it.
I don’t think Amber’s mental health is a reason Danny should break up with her.
I don’t think that a nonromantic and/or nonsexual relationship would necessarily be any healthier or any better of a way for Danny to support Amber.
I don’t know what the healthiest relationship would look like (in terms of what type, and whether it is with Amber, Amazigirl, or both), but it would be of the type that maximizes Danny’s ability to provide support and minimizes the odds and/or frequency of being of the receiving end of more red panels.
Given that this is Danny, I think any breakup that could possibly happen because of this would be Amazigirl pushing Danny away to ‘protect’ him from Amber.
I guess something I don’t get about the “Danny can help if they break up” argument is what makes it inherently healthier. I genuinely believe having “Amazi-Girl’s” boyfriend insist on being with Amber, showing her that Amber is somebody worth loving and supporting, would be way better than “I’m going to pull away from you because you’re crazy, but I might give you a call back if you cut it out.”
Like, it’d still be romantic, since they both seem to have pretty strong romantic feelings for one another either way. Danny’s not so stupid that he’d expect for things to remain exactly the same if he was trying to help her. I really doubt he thinks it’d be his presence alone that would heal her.
He’s not saying that being mentally unstable makes you unfit to love somebody, he’s saying that Amber, SPECIFICALLY, is not being a good girlfriend. Her multiple identities are actively getting in the way of Danny’s happiness at this point, so she either needs to figure shit out or end it.
I wasn’t expecting this comic to give an example of how a woman can be (nonphysically) abusive but here we are.
Abusive behavior is a perfectly good reason to break up with someone but I kind of want Danny to stay with Amber because she needs someone to support her…though really, she needs a therapist like last month :\
Knowing Dan, he’ll feel like it’s his duty or something to help her through this. It’s not your obligation Danny, though it will help her, you cannot take on this herculean task by yourseld
Amber less needs a therapist last month as she needs one several years ago.
Like, from the point she got out from under her father’s thumb onwards.
And everyone ignores the elephant in the room which is Danny’s need to be abused. Or maybe I’m over analyzing and depending too much on my interpretation of other-universe’s Danny with Joyce and Sal.
^^^ this here is the worst comment I’ve seen in the entire comic, and it has blatant fatphobia and horrifying ableism to contend with
wow
…there’s actually something to it, though. I wouldn’t go as far as to call it “a need to be abused”, but if you look at what we’ve seen from his various relationships (not just romantic, but platonic and familial as well), he does tend to gravitate toward people who walk all over him, take charge, habitually belittle him (with the exception of Ethan, from what I recall…but then again it might be the novelty of Ethan being a genuinely kind guy).
I don’t think it would be a stretch to say we’ve got his parents to thank for that…all the same, Danny seems to be used to the idea that his emotional wellbeing/safety is not a priority.
All that being said, I’m up way past my bedtime, so my coherency might leave a big to be desired.
I *really* want him to walk away, though. He’s great at doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, I’d like to see him do the difficult thing for the right reason.
Support is important, but he could still support her while essentially taking a break from the romantic/sexual side of their relationship. Support doesn’t have to come with romance and/or sex.
That was a scary side of Amber. I worry if she’ll become violent against Danny at some point? I hope she gets the psychological help she needs.
Out of curiosity’s sake, how much would it cost to get every student in the goddamn school some damn good psychological care?
Because holy shit.
These days, most schools include a certain number of sessions with a staff counselor as part of tuition. It certainly was offered at the college I attended. Not everyone takes advantage of it.
Schools have staff counselors? This changes EVERYTHING! Well, not everything, but that is useful information to have to start looking. Thanks.
Most (all?) have counsellors (and the ones I know divided career and emotional, although the emotional ones generally could also do school/career stuff since that’s a large source of the students’ stress), some even have school psychiatrists.
$80 million or so, if you could find enough clinical psychologists.
When Amber and Danny and Ethan eventually bang, it won’t be a threesome after all.
Are you saying it’ll be a fourgy or are you just saying it’ll be doomed?
I knew that kiss wouldn’t end well!
I think it just finally hit me what the biggest tragedy is here.
Amber spent so much time trying to be stronger than her father.
Unfortunately, she forgot the most important way to be stronger than her father, and now it’s snuck up and bit her in the ass.
That horrible moment when you sound exactly like your abusive father.
How comes no one has commented Damn you Willis yet? Traditions are being lost on this world
I think we can take that as given and move on.
Kissing Amber was a bad idea.
Called it.
Sucks to be right.
I think she needed it. It calmed her down.
Now, take her to her dorm room, tuck her in. And go find a competent adult to get that girl in a hospital room before she hurts herself, or someone else maybe.
Oh Amber, so afraid of turning into her dad she let it happen anyway. 🙁
(And even knowing that she feels awful about it, that red panel is a damn good reason to break up, no good relationship contains those words)
DAMN YOU WILLLIIISSS (for tradition)
Reaver…you the real MVP
What, A, bongo.
Get some help, seriously. Stop projecting “simple instructions” to other people when you’re constantly having rage blackouts. Gah..
Sometimes Danny does do the right thing. Sometimes.
Looks like he has realized that Amber is a sick girl: this is not a game: and I hope he goes talks to someone about this ….now. Obviously not her father: but a school councellor if need be. Someone that can do something and do it now.
Damn you Wilis. (for tradition).
Wait a minute. Does Amber actually have a split personality? Because I always thought the whole, Amber/Amazi-Girl thing was simply that she has a secret identity. (E.g. Bruce Wayne/Batman, Peter Parker/Spider-Man, etc.)
I assumed she feels she doesn’t deserve it. I wouldn’t say split personality but do you ever do anything on impulse and then realize part way through its not a good idea? She just ya know.. Over reacted x10
It could be interpreted either way at this point, I think, but most of the commenters have suggested that it’s intentional compartmentalizing as a coping strategy rather than a result of her neurotype.
Stemming off this, I’d say intentional (more than DID, although if it was a kind of DID that would be good to see explored), but way unhealthy and more compartmentalized than even the more disturbed runs of Bruce Wayne.
God help me, but I can’t read that red panel dialogue without hearing it in Steve Buscemi’s voice.
Dan, you idiot. You’re not qualified to help her break down those walls, and it’s not your responsibility or duty to bear the abuse that’s coming your way. Walk away.
Well. Didn’t see that coming.
Oh geez. Poor Amber, but… poor Danny. Walk away, Danny. Not from Amber as a friend, but…
I hope all the people who thought it’d be a great idea for Danny to tell Amber he has the hots for Ethan now realize why that would, in fact, be a really bad idea
Thus the reason for my popcorn
I don’t think anyone thought it would be a good idea for him to say it that bluntly. I think if he hadn’t kissed her, it would still be not terrible to tell her “I think I’m bisexual,” once she had finished her trauma story and asked to hear his secret.
I guess i meant more the people who thought Danny could tell Amber about Ethan and she’d be all ok with it, like “oh can I watch” or some such nonsense
And now it’s all coming to the surface. From personal experience, I know that this is the hardest part to go through, and yet the most necessary to change anything.
Amber, GET A FUCKING THERAPIST (Well, get a therapist, they don’t need to fuck you, in fact it’s probably a bad idea if they do…but I digress)
AMBER. THERAPY. GO. NOW. GODDAMMIT.
Oh thank goodness, Amazi-Girl! Perhaps you can talk some sense into her!
It’s moments like this that makes me admire Danny so much. He KNOWS what he is getting himself into, but he still tries.
Yes, Amber. You ARE good enough for Danny.
And Danny Dans it up again! Stupid Danny!*
*If he’s involved, it’s his fault. It doesn’t matter what the specifics are.
(wo-oh) Red is the color of her energy.
For all those saying that Amber should seek psychological help?
Dissociative Identity Disorder — at least, given the full and total breadth of expertise with which skimming Wikipedia and the Dunning-Kruger Effect have gifted me — has no agreed-upon method of treatment and an all-around poor prognosis. There IS no help to be sought. What’s more, Amazi-Girl IS engaged in violent, criminal activity. With this, and with what happened to Blaine (and that WOULD have to come up, it’s critical to understanding the distinction between the two and what happens when that distinction breaks down), a psychiatrist might feel compelled to classify her as a threat to others and have her committed.
As a possible solution, though? Go back to yesterday when Amber’s talking about how Amazi-Girl manages to do everything. What happens if sets Amazi-Girl the task of fixing herself?
Well, it’s not really dissociative identity, is it? She’s retaining memories, can control when to switch, has a continuous sense of self, etc. It’s more like an elaborate system of rules or props that she uses to deal with her emotions, like
I don’t think she has DID, though. I believe DID involves the multiple personalities not really knowing about one another. In this case, she’s clearly able to jump between the two and she knows clearly what she’s doing.
I really think she needs some kind of professional help at this point to recover. I mean, I suppose it’s possible that she figures it out on her own, but it’s really hard to see yourself objectively enough to do it alone. And even with friends helping, it’s difficult, because it’s a very different sort of relationship than she would have with a therapist.
I haven’t kept up with wording and definition. MPD (multiple personality disorder) could be applied to people whose different personalities were able to communicate. As far as I remember, this ability to communicate was something therapy strived for if it wasn’t there. But very few therapist are able to successfully threat MPDs. There were organizations of MPDs who offered support, books and probably therapy recommendations. If you need help in that area, don’t go to the next available therapist in your area. Find someone especially competent!
Friends or loved ones can’t really do much. Not walking away already is much.
People suddenly asking you who you are and what you are doing in their car is not something you want to experience often
I always thought (despite having no psych classes now or in the past) that she was compartmentalizing those parts of her that she thinks make Amazi-Girl (the goodness, ability to affect the world, etc.) into Amazi-Girl.
And if she had DID you’d have a point but you don’t ‘cuz she’s playing pretend
She clearly has an illness, writing her off as ‘playing pretend’ is about the most harmful thing you could say here. She isn’t ‘playing pretend’, she is compelled to seperate herself into different personalities, she actually has no choice in the matter that she can control.
She does have an illness but its not DID. Her compartmentalising emotions is pretend.
Also I can’t hurt her, she’s not real. Now get off your high horse before you fall and hurt yourself.
Well, she could very well be dissociating, and she definitely has some weird identity stuff going on, but dissociation has a very wide range and DID is the absolute extreme – I’m pretty sure it’s not what’s going on here.
I’m not worried about you hurting a fictional character – I said harmful, as in harmful to people with mental illnesses. What if someone with a DID-related illness, relating to Amber here (like I am), read your comment? “Oh, people will just say I’m pretending..”
I agree with you that I don’t think she has DID but she definitely has something and she definitely is not just pretending to compartmentalize her emotions. She isn’t choosing to do it. It’s outside of her control, because she is ill.
Everyone jumping straight to DID(formally MPD) is showing their lack of knowledge of the Personality Disorder spectrum. Like all mental illnesses it’s actually a scale sliced up into categorized illnesses. DID is outright seperate personalities with seperate memories (usually), but in some cases they can communicate and share memories. In this case though, I don’t think it’s DID. I think it’s something like BPD – Boarderline Personality Disorder. Another disorder on the same scale as DID. It has almost seperate-personality-like symptoms, as well as extreme emotional outbursts. I’m sure anyone on the Personality Disorder spectrum is relating to Amber right now.
nothing so complicated.. its likely PTSD. She compartmentalized the little girl in order to survive. Amizigirl isnt the daughter of dip shit.. Amber is.
Oh I totally agree that she has PTSD but that doesn’t mean it isn’t also BPD, you know? Extreme environments in our childhoods can cause the development of ‘complicated’ mental illnesses such as BPD, or even DID. You don’t have to be born with the illness to end up with it. Many people with DID weren’t born with DID, but went through something traumatic and ended up with DID. As I said these are all scales, they don’t fit well into categories like we try to put them into. Her PTSD is manifesting itself as a personality disorder such as BPD.
Even if she has DID and there isn’t a good treatment for her with it, she also needs trauma counselling and other psychiatric help. ‘See a therapist’ isn’t subtexted with ‘(unless one of the reasons is something they probably can’t help with).’
DAMN that was harsh.
Hey look, it’s the world’s most realistic depiction of a superhero: a temperamental narcissist!
Okay, way to go, Amber. You just had to Dan it up.
I propose we call it “Ambering” now.
I heartily disagree with anyone who says Danny “Danned” this situation. This was not Danny being oblivious. This was Danny doing what under any other circumstances would have been a natural heartfelt gesture and getting beaten down for it because of crazy.
Now this. This would be Danning it up.
“So should I tell you about that secret fantasy I had about me and your ex now or…..?”
Rule #0 of romantic gestures: surprise kiss is never a good idea.
Rinse and repeat.
He literally interrupted her with a kiss without giving her any space to react / give nonverbal consent.
It had a small chance of ending well. But he still danned it up.
I don’t know if anyone said this, but like, five minutes ago she was doing Amazi-girl stuff. She was jumping around and acting like a super hero and said it was no big deal. Serious, at the start of this conversation, she dismissed his concerns about being seen as Amazi-Girl. It would have dropped his barriers even further about needed to compartmentalize as she did… maybe he can’t tell when she does or doesn’t have the blush, and has no way of knowing when she is or isn’t Amazi-Girl without the mask.
god
DAMMIT
willis
#damnitwillis
I was wrong. “Damn you Willis!” couldn’t be taken as given.
noo….. 🙁
god I love all of these characters way too much.
Get thee to a therapist!
Dammit. There’s needing help, and then there’s Amber’s level of needing help. That girl ain’t right 🙁
This is the point where she runs like the Devil himself were after her and, in her guilt and confusion, gets herself in serious trouble.
I want to be afraid
but her ass won’t quiiiiitttttt…
YEP this is gonna end badly gdi willis
Mike seems like a saint
He’s in fact, Saint Nickellas.(horrible pun dropped,time to scram)
After all those moms, I’m surprised he isn’t Saint Nickleless!
Christ amber what the fuck
Yay! Now he’s free to have sex with Ethan!
ISSUES
As much as I love Amber usually, she is really not in a good place to be in a relationship. She needs therapy. She’s dealing very poorly with past traumas and abuse. She’s taken her anger out on Danny several times in their fairly new relationship, and in this instance I can’t help but see her mirroring her father. It’s very disturbing. My heart hurts for her, but is being with Danny really what she needs to do at this point in her life?
Amber needs help. Danny needs to take some time off and re-evaluate some identity issues as well. This relationship is going about as well as a burning boat in the open ocean. I’m ready to see them break-up, whatever inane reason it ends up being.
Goddamn it Willis why did you have to make me cry over fictional characters tonight of all nights??
I don’t think Danny is a bad thing for Amber, though. Seh need someone she can speak to and Danny is a good person for that. This relationship is the only thing that make Amber speak out.
I don’t really think Danny’s necessarily a bad thing for her, but more that Amber is hurting Danny.
The red panel up there? Yeah, also a huge red flag. Verbal abuse. Sounding like her father, even looking like him a bit. Even though she catches herself, she still lashed out in a way that is not acceptable.
She’s hurting more than she’s being helped, is the long and short of it.
*Coughs, looks at watch.*
Aaaanytime now…
CHEEZUS FUCKING CRUST WILLIS WHAT THE HELL
WHAT. THE. HELL.
wtf?
I am not sure it’s making any kind of sense. Not the kind to rush those kind of thing, but it might not be a bad idea if she started to consult.
Major double standard here. Amber can practice as Amazi-Girl, out of costume, without even a hint of confusion. Yet, one kiss and zip, conflict. I would think parkour shut in girl would be more threatening to her identity then necking on a nerd.
It’s not the threat to her secret identity that upsets her it’s… well, she explains it in the last panel.
STILL, you can’t blame Danny for being more confused than normal about it.
IF Danny decides that he’s in over his head, if he opts out from their relationship and tries to help her as a friend, or just as an ex instead (pretty much like Ethan), I wouldn’t fault him. Using a relationship as part of a healing process is INCREDIBLY hard and painful and there is no guarantee for success – or even that things will be better. Also, he only had the slightest idea what he was getting himself into.
BUT I don’t think he will opt out, not because – as I was afraid of – he is too afraid to assert himself to take the initiative to change anything in their relationship – but because he genuinely wants to help Amber, genuinely thinks he can do it, genuinely is prepared to put down the hard work and take the risk and – and that is important – genuinely think she is worth it.
Now he knows the stakes. He is still staying. It was so incredibly important what he said just now, that he wants to be in a relationship with AMBER, that AMBER is worth it (worth him, even if he doesn’t think that is much of a bargin chip), and that the only-dating-Amazigirl-limitation doesn’t work. I just hope Amber will let him stay with her. She will try very hard to push him away.
Of course, Danny had it all figured out long before I give him credit for.
Totes agree
I don’t think he will leave because I think he still feels to blame for Blaine coming back into her life.. it was the fight with Blaine and seeing sal that triggered what she had buried. I hope he is stronger than we give him credit for.
I get it.. Having grown up in a house filled with rage and abuse. There are oments when I am so scared or the only way I know how to cope with somehting is the way I was taught. I used to pretend to be someone else for a long time to hide the anger and it worked.. Until my husband saw through me and made me find myself.. It was ugly.. I am finally teaching me how to act with love and trust…without a mask.
No, Amber. This *is* why. You can’t destroy half of yourself to let the other half live. You both deserve better than that. *You* deserve better than that, to be a whole, not two shattered halves. And I won’t rest until you realize that both of you deserve my love.
Also, dammit, Danny, you should have picked no mask the first time, it could have saved you a lot of trouble.
whatcha gonna do
whatcha gonna do when they come for you
(now that’s stuck in my head. thanks, alt text.)
I think red panels should get their own tag.
Yes, just so we can go back and find all the faces.
Schultz had 3nuts. Davis has Garfield Without Garfield. Willis’s legacy will be Redding of Age.
Panel 6 is the realization that panels 4 and 5 are a gender-swapped reenactment of an interaction she saw her parents have countless times before.
Mike is right, she falls back on behaviors she learned from her father. The difference is she has remore about it. She needs help learning to curb these abusive outbursts before they leave her brain. She’s probably never gotten that kind of help before. Maybe if Amber was in more control of her temper, she wouldn’t need to use Amazi-Girl as a crutch to the extent she does now.
LEAVE HER. NOW.
Damnit if they don’t break up I’m gonna be so mad…Danny deserves so much better.
Yes, thank you.
Yeah I would’ve noped out of this relationship way long ago.
In my own experiences, my partner should have left. But I knew as does Amber that it is a bad quality. That means she can with work fix it. Knowing someone loves her..may be key here. Thats not to say, he shouldnt set some boundaries..just that leaving her the first time she shows a albeit huge flaw is not how real life works. Everyone has smething that can trigger this… The problem in a lot of relationships is that people are all or nothing.. and it only increases the divide. and yes there are get the hell out of dodge (gonna kill their spouse or gf/bf) relationships… Amber isnt that far gone.. The fact that she has coping mechanisms at all.. shows that she can learn to overcome it.
Plot twist: This was exactly Blaine’s way of dealing with HIS abusive nature and eventually molded into that person he is now.
This compartmentalization of Amazi-Girl IS what will turn her into Blaine.
A lot now falls on poor Danny’s shoulders. How he reacts here could have an enormous impact on Amber’s future mental stability and happiness.
If he refuses to be scared and refuses to back down, then she’ll finally end up in a position where her only options are acceptance of violence. Y’see, I think that she’d rather die than use violence. So, one outcome (perhaps the closest to a ‘good’ outcome we have in this scenario) is for her to break down completely and Danny practically having to carry her back to her dorm because she’s crying too hard to walk.
Man, Danny just can’t catch a freaking break can he?
That sneer in panel 4 is amazing.
I’ve been meaning to ask, but what point exactly is Amber trying to prove by doing the Amazi-girl thing? She created her to show off her tough, strong side because of her abusive father who imprinted in her brain that she’s a weak piece of shit that can’t do anything, right? So if she is actually able to do amazing shit but refuses to admit that it’s her then, like, what’s the point? What’s the point in purposefully creating a dissociative disorder for herself?
She didn’t create Amazi-Girl for the purposes of showing off, she created Amazi-Girl as an outlet for her anger.
Neither.
She created Amazi-Girl because Amber is bad and horrible and awful and she desperately needed to be good.
Amber thinks she’s a terrible, useless coward, and that she’s liable to start harming the people she loves. Amazi-Girl is a dumping ground for feelings she can’t control. She becomes someone invincible and powerful and who can do no wrong.
okay wow I so called it
1. And this is why surprise kisses are never a good idea. If Danny casually expressed his confusion about the separation of Amazi-girl and Amber, she wouldn’t have reacted nearly as strongly. This was him kissing the girl who did not expect it and does not see herself as being in a relationship with him, and the magnitude of explosion was to be expected.
2. Amber is SO a system. As far as I know, ‘just compartmentalizing’ is basically what DID often starts as, and then it can just spiral out of control. And it absolutely is often a result of PTSD.
3. I really don’t think Amber is abusive. Yes, she channeled abusive behavior for a moment, but – she didn’t mean it, and she wasn’t systemically trying to demean Danny. That’s just the way she knows to express anger, the only one other than beating people up. That’s the template she has, and when you are this angry and scared and confused, it’s hard to control which one you use and whether it’s the one you want.
I catch myself repeating my mom’s phrasings lately all the time, including those I hate and those I know hurt me and are still haunting and hurting me even now that I know it for the bullshit it is. It’s just not a thing you easily control.
As long as Amber ultimately keeps the blame for this situation to herself and realizes Danny had no way of knowing and expresses that to him and apologizes, nothing about her behavior is abusive. Hurtful, unhealthy, yes, but abuse is something different.
And yes, I did just point out that Danny was to blame – but it’s a case of “don’t walk on a minefield”, yes you are wrong for ignoring a clear warning, but ultimately the blame for the explosion is on the person who planted the mines.
I expected Amber to react negatively, and I did say in the comments last page that I would have reacted negatively in her place, but I expected a bit of verbal displeasure and moving away, not… this.
Amber is in a really bad place now. I hope Danny has enough people smarts to- oh who am I kidding, I hope Danny has enough blind dumb luck to accidentally blunder into a response that helps her calm down.
Just saying “You are the same person as Amazi-girl” is not helpful until it’s established that the person saying that understands that it’s not how Amber perceives the situation and that she’s not in control as much as it would seem from the outside.
Danny may have meant well, but an arm around the shoulder, a casual hug, might have gone a long way to helping Amber instead of just adding to her confusion.
Yup.
Abusers “never mean it”, and it ends up being a cycle, whether it’s emotional or physical.
Amber may have not mean it, but she needs to own it that her behavior can turn into a true abuse cycle. She just went through the cycle faster here, by apologizing immediately. She needs to realize the abuse CAN happen just this time if she gets help. If not, this will happen again.
….I help children/teens who go through both physical and emotional abuse. The parents “never mean it.”
Well now that I re-read it, she didn’t even apologize, Danny did. Not a good sign/
Yeah, Danny needs to run, not walk. Being called a ‘stupid piece of-‘ is bad and she’s stepped over a few lines here. And if it hurts her when he walks? Good. That pain can motivate her to eitehr get help or treat the next idiot who dates her better…
It’s absolutely true that abusers rationalize their actions as “not abusive”, and then apologize and build a narrative where they’ll totally stop this time, honest, but that’s not what Amber’s doing here.
She’s lashing out, definitely, but her reaction in the last panel isn’t an attempt to regain control of Danny after she browbeat him; she’s genuinely terrified and remorseful that she lashed out at him in a way that’s exactly like her father. Unlike Blaine, Amber thinks of any act of abuse as abusive, and that it’s directly tied into how she is a terrible person.
^^^ Yeah, this.
Amber behaved abusively. Even she realizes it (why do you think she’s all, “This is why” in that last panel? Why do you think she looks horrified with herself?). She has been afraid that she will become a monster because she’s internalized her father’s methods of reacting to and dealing with anger for a reason and that reason is that Blaine is an abusive dick and Amber is too much like him for her own comfort (I can relate to this entirely too much for my own comfort because reasons, though I’m not as bad as Amber in that respect but I definitely relate to the feeling that you’re a ticking time bomb in any relationship and the terror that you will become that which you despise).
But, abusers aren’t all Snidely Whiplash. They don’t sit there twirling their moustache plotting how to destroy other people for their evil plans of evilness. They’re more like Kilgrave from the Jessica Jones series on Netflix: They are deeply self-centered, damaged people who justify and rationalize everything they’re doing.
They often don’t mean to hurt they other person. Very often, they’ve convinced themselves that they haven’t hurt the other person (or if they did, it was in the other person’s best interest to be hurt) and that the abuser in the situation is actually the victim. Many abusers are themselves victims of abuse and, in my experience as an abuse victim, some use their prior abuse as a way to justify what they’re currently doing – “Stop flinching, it’s not like I’m abusing you or anything. My dad was abusive. He used to hit me with a belt. Have I ever hit you with a belt? No, that’s right. Now stop being a whiny bongo or I’ll give you something to cry about.”
Now, is it far enough, yet, to say the relationship itself is abusive? No, probably not – you’re right that patterns rather than isolated incidents make abusive relationships. However, it’s a HUGE red flag that this relationship is not going down a good road. At this point, Amber and Danny have two major options: they can muddle through on their own and hope they figure out how to make a functional relationship happen (and more likely than not fall into an abusive pattern), or they can get some outside expertise to help Amber deal with her anger and trauma in a constructive and healthy way (which, being real, is not a guarantee that they’ll avoid falling into an abusive pattern).
Danny, for his part, tends to be codependent and passive-aggressive. He doesn’t really communicate what he wants or needs in a relationship and instead tends to expect the other person to just magically divine it. I would expect, given my parents’ dynamic, that when he gets more comfortable in a relationship, he gets sulky when the other person doesn’t divine what he wants and petulantly and passive-aggressively punishes his partner or sabotages whatever they’re trying to do until they figure out what’s bugging him and give him what he wants, rather than clearly communicating what he wants or needs. He also does not seem to consider much what the other person wants out of a relationship and has a tendency to assume if he’s happy with the way things are going, everything is hunky-dory (see also why Dorothy dumping him completely took him by surprise – as an aside, I don’t think she’s going to stick with Walky, either, because, especially if you think of her as the genderbent Political Climber archetype, that type usually ends up with a show spouse who has enough ambition and drive to look good on paper but not so much that they’ll challenge the Political Climber’s ambitions. Walky doesn’t fit that bill – he doesn’t have enough ambition, so he’ll end up looking like a deadbeat in the White House. But especially, I think Dorothy is self-aware enough to realize that she’s too ambitious and too much of a workaholic to be someone’s everything and she’s looking for a spouse who loves and appreciates her, sure, but doesn’t spend all their time when she’s not around just pining after her. She wants someone who has a life outside of her, and Danny is definitely NOT that. Danny wants someone to be his everything, which isn’t really healthy but that’s basically why they broke up – and I actually think Dorothy did them both a favor by breaking up with him early rather than waiting for him to get resentful of the fact that, for her, her career is always going to come first). Finally, he lacks any sense of initiative or agency about himself – how often do you see Danny do something for him? Pretty much never. He will do stuff, but more to please others than because he actually wants to do it – which ties into the people pleaser/compromiser/Flexible and Accommodating One image he likes to have. I imagine he’s so used to being a people-pleaser that he actually doesn’t even know what he enjoys (beyond superficial stuff like shows) or wants to do with himself. All of which I don’t think he’s doing consciously – I think it’s just partly his relaxed personality and partly an upbringing that has encouraged him to worry more about others than about himself and partly his lack of confidence and emotional immaturity.
But yeah, all of that ^^^ is something that makes me think that Danny/Amber is going to hell in a handbasket. I have no idea where they’ll end up, but I know the end isn’t gonna be pretty.
^ Yeahthis. A promising sign to me is that she’s not making fun of him for being hurt by her actions. “Oh, come on, you don’t really think I meant that seriously, did you? I don’t believe that. You’re a smart kid, you knew I was kidding/just upset/not being serious/over-reacting.”
Goal with that ^^^ being to convince the abuser that the victim wasn’t really hurt by them, and that if the victim is acting hurt, it’s not because they actually are hurt but rather because they’re trying to manipulate the abuser. (See also: why I retreat from social situations the second I feel tears because my brain does the job of that particular asshole for me. “OHHHH, here we go again with the waterworks! You know, I don’t know who you think you’re playing because nobody believes you when you do this. You’re just trying to manipulate me, and it’s not working.” <- I was 8 in the incident I'm remembering right now, but I was the bad guy trying to manipulate and emotionally abuse a grown freaking adult, uh-huh. Yeah. Sorry. Amber's story hits me in the feels.)
Amber's not gaslighting him yet. Doesn't mean she won't, but she's not yet which to me seems good. But yeah. This strip is a huge red flag, and people who don't see it don't know how to recognize abusive behaviors when they see them, IMO.
I think you may be tripped up by Ambers gender. She is the tough one.
The Danny/Amber relationship ( and the Danny/ Dorothy one ) is best -understood through a gender-flipped lens . This has been telegraphed a number of times by willis and the characters. Danny has even referred to himself as Lois lane and Catwoman.
That being said , I disagree it was a surprise kiss. Its Danny, he hasnt ever been shown to be aggressive.
It took 2-3 panels. Merely initiating a kiss with someone you are in an exclusive relationship with isnt problematic. Danny ( like many ladies with tough Bfs ) has been utterly desperate to see Ambers softer sensitive side. Seeing it for the first time was why he reacted romantically yesterday. It makes sense gender-flipped.
You are coming across as victim-blaming. Amber has rage issues like most abusers.
If this is happening in your own life “but it’s a case of “don’t walk on a minefield”, seek help. Thats not OK.
“nothing about her behavior is abusive. ”
Actually NO. She is quoting BLaine! Who is emotionally abusive in 2 comics per the author ( and Ethan ) These are Blaines abusive words that scarred her. She is acting it out.
I dont think danny has overracted ( in either comic ) . I think He can talk her down. If she lets him in. But thats the underlying problem. She hasnt until now.
Okay, “nothing about her behavior is abusive” was an exaggeration, yes.
But it’s patterns, not isolated incidents, that an abuser make. She’s quoting Blaine, but she’s horrified by it herself. This does not look like it’s going down an abusive road, future-wise.
Also, it doesn’t ‘make sense gender flipped’. It makes exactly the sense it does with the genders the characters have. Danny is in a Love Interest role, a counterpart to her Superhero role, but he’s still a boy and she’s still a girl.
And look at the previous page again. Look at Amber’s expression as Danny leans in to kiss her. Does that look like someone who’s expecting a kiss? Does that look like someone who’s looking forward to a kiss?
I am not victim blaming here. As I pointed out, Amber is ultimately at fault for this situation, and my acceptance of her as not abusive is conditional on her realizing and expressing that, and doing her best to avoid such outbursts in the future.
(Ironically, you hit the nail on the head with the “don’t walk on a minefield” being a thing in my own life. I tried seeking help. None is avaliable. But regardless of that, nonconsensual kissing is still not OK by its own, and would have been not OK even if Amber had reacted positively, as I said yesterday)
And no, being ‘non-aggressive’ (Nice Guy much?) doesn’t excuse not just ‘initiating a kiss’ but going through with it without noticing that the other person does not look comfortable with it and doesn’t respond positively.
Also, “Amber has rage issues like most abusers” actually, there’s a line between having rage issues and being abusive. Abuse is when the person thinks that them having rage issues makes their reaction justified, and everyone else at fault for triggering them. It’s “the bad thing is that you did the innocuous thing that made me react like that” instead of “the bad thing is that I reacted like that to an innocuous thing you did”.
Amber, here, is clearly realizing that her reaction is disproportionate and wrong, and that SHE’s the one to blame for it. That’s what she’s communicating on the last panel, along with it being the explanation for her separating Amazi-girl from Amber.
“If Danny casually expressed his confusion about the separation of Amazi-Girl and Amber, she wouldn’t have reacted nearly as strongly.”
Casually? His girlfriend, who seems to care for a lot, has just described an experience where she could have died or hurt himself in many different ways. She intentionally put herself in those situations so she could help someone else.
I cant imagine Danny just ignoring all of that and going “hey, arent you AmaziGirl? Why are you referring to her as another person?”.
Amber reacted strongly because of her issues. I cant blame Danny here, even though he is the one apologizing.
Correction to the post, I missed the word “he”. The sentence should be:
“His girlfriend, who HE seems to care for a lot…”
Yeah, even if Danny had hugged her or her held her hand, she would still would have reacted the same way. “I am Amber. You date Amazi-Girl.”
Like, as far as surprise kisses go I think this was alright, it accurately sold how Danny feels for Amber, but it’s also a trope that’s been used poorly over and over again in really objectifying ways, which Dumbing of Age has been really smart with avoiding every time it’s used one; Walky/Dorothy happened after they both clearly established they were into each other, Billie/Ruth ended with Ruth getting told the fuck off and nearly drinking herself to death and they tried to work from there, Becky/Joyce kind of had to happen that way for the reveal to work as well as it did.
TLDR; I hate the surprise kiss, but I can also recognize that it’s also a really good tool for drama.
The discussion regarding tropes and their overuse is sort of beyond me, so I wont jump into that. 🙂
Aaaand I just noticed another mistake in my long post above. I shd be banned from posting on the Internet. Urgh.
This really isn’t a “Surprise Kiss” in any meaningful sense. Danny’s kissing his girlfriend. That’s normally pretty accepted without much notice.
At least from his point of view. He knows he’s supposedly dating Amazi-girl, not Amber, but from his PoV that’s a fiction – keeping the secret identity, not actually different personas. This is one of his first real confrontations with Amber not seeing it that way.
No yeah, I hear you. I call it a Surprise Kiss because, well, Danny interrupts her and kisses her when she wasn’t expecting it. You’re absolutely right that Danny is trying to do something romantic and heartfelt for her, and there’s also that Amber did the same to him a while back.
Really, most of my misgivings about it are with the trope itself, and not the use of it in this particular instance. If I were to write about any bad use of it then I wouldn’t bring up DoA.
Fair enough. The only real uses of it I can think of in DOA (Becky->Joyce and Ruth->Billie) were both nicely averted and strongly rejected.
Did you forget Joyce -> Ethan, or does that not count since they were dating, so it wasn’t a smack from the blue?
No, that was a surprise kiss as well. A very awkward one at that.
Oh my god are we seriously getting into the “marital rape is not rape” defense layers?
Just because you are in a relationship with someone doesn’t mean you don’t need consent. Yes, even to a kiss. Especially when your kiss is interrupting them saying something – he literally interrupted her mid-word. It’s – it’s fucking RUDE.
Yes, he’s trying to do something heartfelt and romantic. Yet, he’s also failing because he fails at accounting for feedback – like ‘yes I noticed you are trying to kiss me’ and ‘yes I do want you to go through with it’ that are somewhat required when you are trying to kiss someone on the lips. Whoever it is.
Can you please describe how you think Danny should have acted?
Actually, never mind. My thoughts were all jumbled.
One thing needs to be clarified though: I didnt mean to say that Danny has a RIGHT to kiss Amber and Amber must submit to that right because she is his girlfriend. I am mentioning this specifically because of your mention of “marital rape”.
What I meant to say that because they are where they are in this relationship, Danny would not hesitate to initiate a kiss. Does that make sense?
Nope, in this situation I didn’t just have misgivings about the trope. “Misgivings about the trope” was the “Shut Up Kiss” which was not what was happening.
Surprise kiss is absolutely what happened here, as expressed by Amber’s expression on the last panel, while Danny is already kissing her
Has anyone considered the thought that there is actually only one person in this comic, and that person is both hallucinogenic, and on drugs? And has imagined all these people.
~so edgy~
That is how the Satoshi Kon anime movie version of DoA turns out.
Except for the whole zombie theme creeping in, of course.
Not really. Mainly because “It was all just a dream, jokes on you for getting invested in the story!” is an annoying plot twist, and its frequency in fan theories is kinda irritating.
It’s so cute the way you forget that you and TheNinthShader are both aspects of my personality.
We need a name for this phenomenon.
As a fanbase grows, the likelihood of theories about how it’s all a dream increase at an exponential rate.
I’d suggest ‘the Dallas phenomenon’, but since that was the actual show going the ‘it was all a dream’ route as opposed to the fandom, that could be a little misleading.
…and it’s Mike.
We all know DoA takes place in Amber’s imagination as she gazes into a snowglobe all day.
Even when he’s not in the comic, Blaine finds a way to return and stick around.
NOOOOOOOOO
PRECIOUS CINNAMON ROLLS
Don’t Danny this up, Amber!
Yeeeaaahhh Danny needs to break up with her and she needs to see a shrink. That anger in the second to last panel is dangerous.
I want to give Amber the biggest of hugs and the best damn therapist for her that I can find. I want to give Danny a big hug and take him out for pizza and listen to him supportively. I want both of these crazy kids to be okay!
Ditto
Ditto
Ditto
This is painful to read. 🙁
Well done, Willis.
Amber’s egg has finally cracked, and it only took getting her head dribbled off a windshield for it to happen.
Red Panel = Blaine.
Somebody’s not poly…
Danny. But he could learn.
You guys are way overthinking it. Danny and Amazi-Girl are a kind-of not-secret couple. If he’s seen smacking on Amber, a girl with the same voice, body-type, and hair as Amazi-Girl, her cover is blown.
Too simple. If Amber is seen performing Amazi-girl level acrobatics her cover is blown. And yet…
This is why we can’t have nice secret identities.
Interesting case of D.I.D. here.
Or not.
Most likely.
Welp, either bipolar or full on D.I.D, either way she’s gonna have to visit a psychiatrist sooner or later, ’cause this can’t end well.
Hey, why can’t it be both?! 🙂 With one being max level unhealthy coping mechanism for the other, even?! 🙂 Maximum fun for everyone involved!!!
D:
I… welp. It’s not often I go to one of the comics I check regularly and come away feeling as if there’s a dagger stuck in my gut. The full-on dissociation that has been talked about for ages finally rears its head in a definitive way. The red panel rage. The remarkable similarity to Blaine. And Danny, there, trying to do the right thing but being completely out of his element and now the object of that rage.
And there’s no sign that this is where rock bottom is. Things may well get even worse. They probably will, too, as this is Dumbing of Age.
Willis, I commend you for excellent writing -but also- damn you. That “Damn you” is also a compliment, see the bit about feeling like there’s a dagger stuck in me. I need to reflect for a bit.
Ooooof course.
Actually if he approached it right, Danny probably sell the idea of being Amazigirl’s boyfriend while “cheating” and having a cheap meaningless secret sexual affair with Amber that no-one would ever know about. Though I’m sure that Amber would be more comfortable with Danny cheating with Ethan. But I’m not at all sure that Danny could handle that.
Danny is the kind of guy who would do anything he could to help someone he cares for.
Thus when Amber finally looses it and starts to wail on someone (either as herself or AG) be’ll step in and take the hits because he knows every one he takes is more of the Blaine fueled rage being exorcised . And no matter how bad he’ll be hurt he won’t hold it against her at all.
Unfortunately, things she acts out in that way are not exorcised but only reenacted without being processed.
Her beating Blaine would have more of an exorcising effect because he’s the real aim.
So Danny, no, don’t think you’re helping by taking these hits stoically. And don’t fucking apologize, she needs to really take responsibility for the crap she does here.
2 Things:
1) He already pulled her off Blaine without sustaining injury.
2) Please tell me your name stand for “Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs Forever” because that would make my day.
This sounds like DID. Correct me if I’m wrong? It’s a personality disorder to a degree, because of abusive pasts.
People who have DID themselves have come out of woodwork in the comments on the previous page, noting it sounds very familiar and relatable and that it’s a good framework for looking at reasons for Amber’s behavior, at the very least.
If there is one thing I like about the comic, it’s how blunt and realistic Willis is. He’s not politically correct, and he’s sensitive about the real issues that are glazed over a lot in college life.
Amber, I love you, so please seek therapy.
So how many times does Amber have to abuse Danny before she’s the bad guy. I know. She regrets it. Abusers usually do. After.
Walk away, Danny.
The cycle of Abuse -> Apologize -> Repeat is extremely real, but Amber’s not doing that. She’s not trying to gain control of Danny, she’s freaking out because she’s acting towards him the way her father treated her mother.
Which doesn’t mean he shouldn’t walk away. This is moving towards an abusive relationship and frankly Danny looks like good victim material.
OTOH, it’s not really there yet and Amber needs support, not rejection. She can still be pulled out of the cycle.
She’s not trying to manipulate Danny, but she is falling into the pattern she learned from Blaine. The anger, the abuse. And of course, she sees that and blames herself, but uses that blame to feed her self-loathing and disassociate more. More of the good parts into Amazi-Girl and the bad ones into Amber. Which builds the rage and just makes things worse.
On the gripping hand, this is a comic and a narrative. Though things will get worse, they’ll come to a climax and resolution. Amber won’t spiral downward indefinitely. The story won’t leave Danny trapped in a co-dependent, abusive relationship indefinitely. The resolution most likely will be more dramatic than “Amber eventually goes into therapy and slowly gets better over a period of years of hard work” which would be the realistic good outcome. But bad storytelling.
Danny definitely has a low sense of self worth, but I resent the idea that Amber is an abusive person, or that Danny is at all in danger of getting Blaine’d by her. She can’t just choose not to react violently; it’s second nature to her now, and we see pretty clearly that just yelling at him is enough to wrack her with guilt.
Speaking personally, I don’t think “Amber goes to therapy” would be a bad storyline. I think the story of Amber, finally realizing how in need of help she really is, seeking it out and tries to start solving her problems with support from people she loves, struggling with shaking off nearly two decades of mental programming and restarting from scratch, would be amazing. The swashbuckling adventures of Amazi-Girl had a good run, but the Genie’s been let out of the bottle; nobody can pretend that Amazi-Girl is a positive thing anymore, and it has to end.
I’d say that Amber is definitely at risk of becoming an abusive person. Her problems, if not dealt with, will lead her there. Sure, she’s wracked with guilt for slipping and letting the rage out. That’s an opening to help and it definitely shows she’s not too far gone yet, but it’s also just another sign to her that Amber’s bad and dangerous and not worthy. The self-loathing grows and that feeds the repressed rage, which spills over onto Danny.
Unless she just lets him see Amazi-girl, because she’s the good, strong one.
The problem with “Amber goes to therapy” in this series is that it’s an ending. With no resolution, because therapy will take a long time, years of in-world time, centuries of real time. It could be a good storyline, but not here.
And it’s easy to pretend Amazi-girl’s a positive thing. She’s a super-hero. She just saved Becky. She might not be a good thing for Amber, but that’s not important to her. Amber doesn’t deserve good things.
It’s interesting because I think Willis is trying to walk that very line: Where Amazi-girl is both a real super-hero who really does do heroic things and a symptom of a very screwed up girl who needs help.
And an excuse to draw action sequences, which he needs to keep.:)
I mean, I really can’t see Amber, being driven to tears for yelling at Danny, ever continuing. The thing with abusers is that they keep doing it and rationalize their behaviour. Amber has no such misgivings; She immediately recognized that she was acting like her father.
Therapy isn’t an ending. Bad writers treat it the same way they do relationships that only being at the end of the story. Pursuing therapy is a long commitment and could provide years of storytelling, and really, the healing process doesn’t ever truly end. It’s a constant effort to deal with, and I think that could be easily worked into DoA for a long time.
At the least, I think that if we continue to focus on the worst aspects of Amazi-Girl, then the awesome parts, the fight scenes, the parkour, will come off more and more hollow. Amazi-Girl can’t be cool and badass at the same time as she’s embodying Amber’s biggest problem. When Sal when buggernuts in IW! we sure weren’t meant to be rooting for her.
Lots of abusers regret their actions – even with tears. The remorse is often real, that doesn’t mitigate the abuse. Their is no reason to assume that Amber would stop here, in fact it’s presumptuous to assume that just because she cried once she’s worked it out of her system.
Obviously she hasn’t worked it out but there’s no fucking way she’d allow this to become a consistent behavioural pattern. No way. I will buy a hat just so I can eat if we ever get to a point where Amber gets like this without immediately regretting it.
She has problems and she needs help but she’s not this violent, psychotic whirlwind of abuse. She doesn’t need to be treated like she’s a rabid dog who’s just one step away from viciously beating Danny.
Honestly, you’re probably right. She wouldn’t actually be able to stop herself in the long, assuming the spiral out of control continues. She’d snap … and regret it. And snap … and regret it. With the breaks getting worse and the self-blame getting worse every time.
So she’d push him away, to protect him and because Amber doesn’t deserve anything good.
Never said she wouldn’t not regret it. She would probably always regret it. Does that regret make it okay? How many times should a person accept “I’m sorry” before they need to move away from their abuser?
Amber manipulated Danny when he was with his parents. She had her own reasons, but rather than share them, she ran away. She cashed in on their friendship and she blurred the lines between Amazigirl and herself when she pursued time with Danny in both identities. She then punished Danny for his understandable loyalty to the girl he was dating by avoiding him in both identities. Without intent, she has been playing games with Danny for some time, setting up rules and boundaries that only apply to him, and punishing him for not following guidelines that are absurd.
Meanwhile, Danny has his own self esteem issues and will probably soak up the abuse. It doesn’t matter if Amber regrets her actions, the relationship is unhealthy, and it’s unhealthy largely because of Amber.
Combining this with some of Amber’s more (unintentionally) manipulative and (increasingly) hypocritical actions with Danny, I’d call it a pattern.
wlills why
Daddy’s girl.
Oh, good. She’s not compartmentalizing a protective identity, she’s compartmentalizing her dad. Just another girl messed up by an abusive parent. (Sarcasm, btw.)
I hope Amber eventually realizes it’s not HER anger she’s trying to stuff away, it’s Blaine’s. Just because she listened to that shit her whole life doesn’t mean she has to keep listening to it now that she’s an adult or throw it at other people.
If Danny doesn’t want to Dan this one up, he needs to drop the “I’m sorry,” and come back with “This is what makes you Amber. If you’re worried about this, it’s time to talk to a professional about it.” Unfortunately, I don’t see Danny as either aware enough or bold enough to do that. 🙁
I doubt “professionals” will be the answer. As I said, not dramatic enough. But also, not the way most college kids think, unless they’ve had good experiences with therapy themselves. I definitely remember a strong “handle it ourselves without involving adults” feeling from my college years.
That aside, Danny can respond by sticking to his guns and pushing the fact that he likes Amber, not just Amazi-girl. Or more accurately, not just because of Amazi-girl, because he doesn’t see them as separate. Which he has been doing all along.
And do that while standing up to and not accepting the abuse, which will be much harder for him, since he’s Danny.
I agree that would likely be the way he would think, handle it ourselves. But the odds of success with handling something like this without adequate knowledge are piss poor.
The numbers for screwed up kids in college, suicide, drug abuse, alcoholism, and so forth rather conclusively show how bad kids are at handling it themselves.
Not that society as a whole is much better.
The stigma attached to mental problems sure doesn’t help with seeking help for a problem, or even acknowledging there is a problem.
Actually, I’ve seen multiple webcomic storylines made better by having characters go to therapists and actually (gasp) get good therapy. It can even make for, yes, entertaining drama.
Of course there are also the Smartass Therapists.
“‘Just go out and bang some dude’ is one of the phrases you will never hear a psychiatrist say. Other such phrases include ‘I think the heroin is doing you a lot of good,’ and ‘Jesus, no WONDER your mother never loved you.'”
Ha, QC was the first comic I thought of too after Lillet’s post.
Were those comics on a year of real time to a week of world time ratio?
Therapy would essentially never have any effect on her. It would be so many years out, it wouldn’t matter.
That’s not going to be the resolution here. Not for Amber and not for Billie/Ruth, either.
Can we at least acknowledge the fact that professional help would do them good? Because it’s absolutely true, no matter what “angle” you think the webcomic will try to go for.
Absolutely. It’s by far the best answer in the real world. I just don’t think it’s where the story is going to go.
There has to be resolution eventually. Billie and Ruth can’t forever be in a sexy lesbian suicide pact; At some point in time they are going to either have to get better or get worse, and considering Amber is one of the main characters I kind of doubt we’re in for years of her mental illness becoming progressively more damaging with no hope in sight, especially when the journey through therapy and healing is completely underutilized in fiction.
There will be resolution. I just expect it to be a more dramatic resolution than a long realistic years of therapy approach. Maybe Willis can pull something off to make therapy both realistic and interesting, but at what’s likely to be a pace of about one session per real time year, I’ve got trouble seeing how.
As a parallel, it’s much like the last storyline was resolved by the characters, not by someone calling 911 and everyone sheltering until the cops settled things – even if that would have been the most realistic and probably best thing to do. That’s not the story Willis wanted to tell.
The anger is hers. Doesn’t matter if it’s conditioned into her by an abusive parent. For all we know, little Blaine suffered greatly in his own childhood – that wouldn’t excuse him though, would it?
Oh that’s fucking nice. Great to know that having violent ideals beaten into you over the entire course of your formative years definitely makes you just as bad as your own abuser.
That’s why it’s called a cycle of abuse. It often does not spring up out of nowhere. Does Amber having been a victim of abuse somehow excuse her being an abuser? Would her father being a victim of abuse then also excuse his actions?
So yes, while being a victim of abuse might EXPLAIN your abusive actions, abusing someone because you were also abused DOES actually make you as bad as your abuser. Absolutely. If it didn’t, very few abusers would be held accountable for their actions. Is that what you would endorse?
I think applying the same standards you would to a fully cognizant, grown adult to a child is bullshit, let alone a child who is actually painfully aware of actually becoming an abuser, and reacts in horror at acting like one.
Amber isn’t a child.
“In primitive societies you’d be considered an adult at 13” notwithstanding, she’s 18, whereas brain development isn’t complete until age 25. She also hasn’t actually gone as far as Blaine, and you’ve completely ignored the “painfully aware / reacts in horror” bit.
So you think that because she hasn’t gone as far as her father, her abusive actions are acceptable? At what point do you measure abuse as unacceptable then?
As far as her age – she is not a child. Fact. If her age apologies her actions, is it the same for all those her age?
I’m not applying the same standards. She’s on the path, but she’s not there yet. Much farther than one step away, but definitely headed in the wrong direction.
There will still be plenty of chances to turn away and I fully expect that to happen.
This. This is abusive behaviour, and Amber clearly recognises it as such. That does not make it not abusive, but Amber is not an abuser.
So she is abusing someone, but she is not an abuser? No.
Lots of abusers turn away from their abusive actions. That doesn’t erase what they did.
And Amber starts to accelerate on the road to crazy town.
This girl needs professional help, and soon.
Of course it’s ‘Murica, so getting a gun is FAR easier than getting decent psychiatric care. 🙁
From what I’ve heard, it’s much easier to get decent psychiatric help in America than in Ukraine… for what it’s worth. Not that my country is any sort of a good baseline T_T
Is Amber going to pull a Moon Knight and completely break off into multiple personalities?
As long as she doesn’t pull a Captain Cockroach.
Hssss!
Interesting – reminds me of some of the discussions regarding Batman/Bruce Wayne. Is Batman Bruce Wayne’s alter ego, or is Bruce Wayne Batman’s alter ego?
Inquiring minds want to know…
Bruce Wayne: “The voice kept calling me ‘Bruce’. In my mind, that’s not what I call myself.”
“I call myself Captain Awesomecape. But Batman’s okay too I guess.”
Should have insisted on “no mask,” Danny.
Way to go Danny, you just cheated on your girlfriend. Now do it again, but with Ethan this time. (jk)
Seriously, though, wouldn’t it be easier for Danny to be dating Amber instead of AmaziGirl? Could he dump AmaziGirl for Amber?
Or he could suggest polyamory, of course. But since he probably doesn’t know what polyamory is, he’d have to do it accidentally.
He suggested it, she shot it down.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/platonic/
If I was in the position of being able to advise Danny, I’d flat out tell him to server, turn around and run right the fuck now. Whatever her diagnosis is, she’s dangerous, and the only thing to do with the likes of her is to get out of the way before you get caught in the undertow when she goes down. As someone said before, she’s likely prime involuntary commitment fodder, and the high security wing at that, as, aside from anything else, nothing else would likely hold the AG persona if she decided to leave.
Unfortunately, he’s unlikely to listen and will suffer for it.
Gaah, sever
“That perfect girl…”
Huh.
DAMN!
Having been through similar situations all I can say is it is very painful and confusing for everyone involved.
That’s the best place, sir.
While crazy in the head means crazy in bed… I can’t see it being worth it.
it certainly seems like it before everything goes to hell
Mind fucks. Mind fucks everywhere.
Damn Amber, your inner father is showing!
I have a feeling this is going to somehow relate to the question of “mask or no mask” being about more than a sexual kink, and how danny somehow chose amazigirl over amber.
Jesus amber, dont get so pissed at danny for not sympathizing with your psychosis. I mean i guess if you were able to realize that was happening then you wouldn’t be so mad. Damn subjectivity
…..their pain. It amuses me. Why does it amuse me so?