Which flippant as my snark may be, I don’t mean to say that there is intentional homophobia, just that there is often unconscious cultural stuff where characters and people with certain identities often get judged harsher and have less room for error.
It’s part of the reason why some guy babbling on about “girls, amirite” type crap will be given more time by the majority of people before being seen as being annoying than someone who is interpreted as being “aggressively gay” (see also the whole, “ugh, why do they have to shove it down our throats” dynamic).
It’s why women have less margin for standing up for what they believe in before being considered percussion instruments 😉 and why black people aren’t really allowed to publicly show their anger before being read as “dangerous” or otherwise dismissible.
It’s not intentionally or coming from an inherently wrong place, but it does create a dynamic where the margin for failure is a lot narrow for people with marginalized dynamics and its easier for those characters to be viewed negatively faster as this cultural dynamic is really hard to resist even if you are aware of it.
Of course, Sarah is also black. I think, realistically, people who follow these comics long enough to have a favourite character now are probably just those who enjoy the genre-savvy snark factory more than the reminder of how painfully intense they were when they were finding their identity as an adult and it’s not so much to do with unconscious biases.
It’s determined by your email address. If you use a different email, you’ll probably get a different avatar (unless the hash function happens to reduce both addresses to the same number). They do get shuffled around whenever Willis adds a new avatar to the mix.
I think it’s the first time I’ve posted here rather than over on Shortpacked, and I never set a gravatar anywhere from sheer laziness so it’s a case of first time lucky I guess.
I don’t care that Sarah is black or that Becky is gay. I care that Sarah seems to be a better *person* than Becky. Becky is messed-up, short-sighted, thoughtless, and very prone to generally unappealing behavior towards others. Sarah can be curt and rude, but when she insults somebody it’s for an actual reason and her analysis is generally right.
I get your point here, and you aren’t wrong, but at the same time that rabbit hole is pretty dark and deep. The problem with going down it is many fold.
Using the example of “I don’t like Sarah, she’s too bongoy and judgemental.”
1. Someone can be accused of racism in this case – and perhaps sexism – (or homophobia, or whatever in other cases) simply because someone doesn’t like the expressed opinion. “You’re saying that because you’re racist!” And if you try to defend yourself and say it has nothing to do with race, that gets hand waved away with the magic of societal programming, “You don’t even know you’re a racist, but you are!”
Of course that’s the same logic that says all men are racists (guys, how many of you are willing to sign on for that one?) and that woman are *incapable* of giving consent because they are weaker and all just brainwashed victims of the patriarchy (gals, how many are willing to sign up for that one?)
I’d say unless you see a pattern of behaviour, or overt behaviour, its a bit much to call someone a racist (or whatever) simply because they express a dislike of a black person.
2. On the other hand, it can be a far too convenient excuse for bad behaviour. “Not my fault, it’s society’s fault. I can’t help it.” And then continue being a jerk with a convenient lack of responsiblty for their actions.
I say B.S. We can choose not to do something. Our prejudices and biases will always be there, but unless we are totally clueless we can spot most of them, and keep the worst elements tied down.
3. Related to both above points. It’s easy then to say everyone is X. Which by definition is prejudice in its own right. And whether you’re saying “all Mexicans are criminals” (thanks Donald) or all whites are racist, it is pre-judging people (pre-judge, prejudice… Funny how that works).
Even growing up in an environment that is heavy with racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatever doesn’t guarantee that someone will be that thing. And even being one doesn’t mean you’ll stay one. And vice-versa, someone can develop prejudice as they go through life.
Prejudice is not an informed decision – hell, it seems like most people don’t make information decisions about most things. Nor is it entirely conscious. But neither is it without its logic (no matter how spurious that logic may be), nor is it something we are completely unaware of.
And it’s also not bihary; yes-no, on-off.
I read about a fellow who was middle aged back in the 50s and 60s. He was a racist, there wasn’t much doubt of that. But he fought against segregation, and he fought for equality for blacks, and more. That contradiction may seem hard to understand, but there it was.
Then there was the Republican (a congressman IIRC) who didn’t like gays, was against gay marriage, etc. And then one day he found himself sitting and talking with a gay couple and realized that they were just two people in love. It changed his attitude.
I doubt he went off to march in Gay Pride parades (or maybe he did) but at the least I bet he adopted a more ‘live and let live’ attitude. And there is nothing wrong with that.
I’m not even going to touch that particularly odd interpretation of Schroedinger’s Rapist, so instead I’ll just clarify a few things in my argument.
I’m not saying that people are being cartoonishly Donald Trumpianly bigoted in their responses, but rather that unconscious bias transmitted through culture has a small, but noticeable effect on people’s actions. And often times it is downright impossible to shake said inheritance even if you are an actively conscious member of the group being targeted (which is why internalized homophobia/sexism/racism is a thing).
It doesn’t make people bad people that this happens, it’s just a part of the culture that gives marginalized group members a little less slack, gives them a little harder road to clear, allows the majority to identify a little easier, and so on. Little things that are genuinely hard to notice if you aren’t a member of the group being affected directly by it and even then, not necessarily easy.
It’s more about the type of small stuff that leads to the effects noticed in studies where say black names or names traditionally gendered female on college applications and job applications get viewed as inherently less valuable than identical resumes with white names or names traditionally gendered male.
That sort of thing is not easy to escape entirely, even when one is actively trying to be conscious of it.
Dammit, the point of privilege and “any man could be a rapist” is not that you have to constantly be defending yourself, it’s to be -aware of the innate power you have and to make sure you are responsible in excercising it-.
If a feminist tells you “to a woman, any man could be a rapist”, the lesson to be learned is not that you are being punished, but that you need to be cautious when having intercourse because you could be intensely harming your partner even if you don’t intend it, just because of stuff like society telling women to “lie back and bear it”.
If your first response to “life is immensely unfair and people are suffering real, atrocious pain from that injustice” is to scramble to say “well, I don’t feel like it’s -my- fault!”, instead of “what can I do to help please tell me!”, then you’re the asshole.
“Even growing up in an environment that is heavy with racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatever doesn’t guarantee that someone will be that thing. And even being one doesn’t mean you’ll stay one. And vice-versa, someone can develop prejudice as they go through life.”
Being accused of being a racist or rapist is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. Yes, it’s an intensely painful experience, and it shouldn’t happen to anyone who doesn’t deserve it, but the things it is in response to are far more painful. The entire lesson to be learned is the same thing Spiderman tries to teach: Whites and Men have power, and they are fucking -scary- to everyone else — and the only way that’s going to end well is if they are aware of that, and take steps to mitigate it.
M-My first sentence was to state that I don’t base my opinions on Sarah because of her color or on Becky because of her orientation. I mean, I’ve known Sarah for like *decades*, and I’ve been encountering gay people in comics (especially Willis comics), for years and years. I react to them differently than I do real-life people, because the context in which I know them is massively different. And since I’ve had such massive exposure to what they think and feel that that’s obviously what I’m going to base my opinions on.
This is not to say I’m totally free of racism or homophobia. Heck, I’m very likely a closet homophobe and could easily be a closet racist, simply because I’ve hardly *met* either type of person. (That I know of, in the case of gay people.) Unfamiliarity breeds, at the least, a momentary surprised reaction when I see a black person (or, say, a white person with a mohawk) walking down the streets of Boise, Idaho. This is despite my being intellectually and in my overt actions at least a mimicry of a decent person.
So yeah, I’m not perfect, but damn, am I know allowed to have an opinion of these fictional characters based on the many, many hours I’ve spent reading about them?
Media is a lot to blame for reinforcing stereotypes and preconceptions. Putting emphasis on the race or sex of the perpetrator when it match a stereotype. News about a drug lord… he’s Mexican. A killing… Italian mob is suspected.
Of course all those reality TV shows don’t help either as they make a point of choosing the most obnoxiously stereotypical people they can find.
In the US when Obama became president I remember the media being so surprised about a black president they talk about it for weeks and weeks on end. In the 21st Century, this kind of thing should not be surprising or shocking but still is apparently.
I can imagine news room exploding when a non-Christian Korean women become their president. But of course Trump will have his say in this.
Shugo, you’re really good at being dishonest! Kudos.
As a white man (the group i was saying need to be aware of their power), yes, I’m allowed to judge myself.
Like I -actually- said, and like the opposite of what you tried to paint it as, the point of the privelege concept is not a free pass for everyone unlike me to “get their turn to be racist”, but for -people like me- to recognize that, by nature, we intimidate and scare those around us, -and that we need to be vigilant to not exploit that any more-.
You know, instead of sticking our head in the sand and claiming that everyone deserves exactly what they have, like you seem to be doing.
Your point may have been somewhat obscured when you said that you’re an asshole if you defend yourself against false charges of being a racist or rapist.
… did you forget the strip where Amazi-Girl is asking Sarah about potential ding-dong bandit suspects, and she pretty much ragged on everyone in her hall, to the point where she said something like “And Rachel is too pretty to be a good person”? (sorry, don’t have time for an archive trawl to find the actual strip)
Very true. Sarah has different ranges where she is on a thinner edge and that has been reflected in receiving slightly less slack than say a Mike or a Joe on certain fuckups (such as the collapse of the Jacob friendship). Additionally, she definitely has other unconscious stuff applied against her (such as little calls for more focus on her and her stories even though she’s one of the main cast) and a similar reflection in the popularity polls.
But overall, it’s a bad example for me to pick as Sarah gets a lot of slack from the community for her actions owing to what she did for Joyce at the party and also for her shortly after.
And you are absolutely right that identification plays a huge role. Fewer people can probably relate to the experience of being a homeless queer youth desperately trying to cobble together an identity on the fly than that of a snarky genre-savvy smartass.
But yeah, good points all. I think your Jacob glasses are well-earned here.
In regards to her and Jacob’s friend-break up, was there that much criticism of Sarah? I’m fairly critical of her myself, but I think we all understood that, while it wasn’t really good her actions were understandable given her neuroses. I’ve been in Sarah’s shoes and, while I wasn’t calling for fire and brimstone to rain upon her, my reaction was a lot of “stop! desist! talk to him!”
Sarah does genuinely frustrate me at times, even though I know a lot of her worst aspects are formed from bad experiences and that she’s capable of tremendous acts of love. If anything I get the feeling that, because of her problems (that I imagine a lot of people sympathize with), she gets her fair share from the fandom, in so far as every character has haters and defenders, anyway.
The homelessness didn’t even occur to me. I just remember how insufferable I was when I realised something about myself in my late teens that made the way I socialised totally different. I’m pretty sure 30 year old me would find 20 year old me to be the worst person ever due to that.
Sarahs my favourite because shes more often than not right when she says something, warned Joyce about what would happen at the party and then, even when she had no real reason to, saved Joyce and dealt to the asshole with a baseball bat
I dunno about “like” so much as “relate to”. Serious, annoyed by constant frivolity, and both exasperated by and overly protective of the Joyces of the world is someone that’s a lot easier to understand than most of the melodramatically overblown personalities in this strip.
I like Sarah, because I can relate to her. I’ve been in her shoes all my life; criticized for doing what was right, even though it was incredibly hard for me to do. I’ve also developed serious trust issues and anxiety in large part due to these experiences. I’ve had friends tell me their first impression of me was awful because I seemed rude and standoffish to them, which was due to my anxiety. I have trouble making friends, and keeping them. I can see why people dislike Sarah, but it’s the outright hate that I don’t get. She saved Joyce from being raped and possibly killed, and even though she encouraged Joyce to report it to the police, she didn’t push when Sarah made the decision not to. She also took in Becky even though she thought it was an awful idea.
Yeah well, y’know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
Seriously, it’d take a poll or something to really know which characters are better liked by the readers, and if I had to bet on something, I bet the results would be pretty close in most cases. I don’t like Sarah any more, or less, than Becky, I think they’re both great characters. In fact, there are hardly any characters in the strip I don’t like.
Doesn’t Sarah usually score fairly low on the popularity polls? I know in the last one Becky had more votes than Dina for a while before settling into second place.
You’re right about Sarah, but I’d be interested to see how Becky would do in a poll now–when the last one ran, she’d just woken up the morning after her confession, and a lot of the irritation people had hadn’t happened yet.
I never minded Sarah. Until That Story where she got her roommate kicked out because her grieving was an inconvenience to her. That’s the moment Sarah lost me completely.
More to the point, not saving someone and then patting yourself on the back for being a better person than if you’d murdered them yourself is pretty weasely and meaningless IMHO.
I am reminded of that one Babylon 5 episode where G’kar and Londo are trapped in the elevator, where G’kar really wants Londo dead, but if he kills him, his entire family will be killed in retaliation. And now here they are trapped, and all he has to do is not help Londo escape, and they will both die, and his family won’t be killed. 😀 Sometimes the difference between actual murder and just not saving them is an important distinction. 😉
It’s a pretty great episode. Hell, it’s a great series.
–I am also reminded of the original Adam West Batman movie, and the bomb and the bloody ducks. >< THEY'RE DUCKS. TOSS THE BOMB ALREADY.
I think that she just has a thing with clear communication. It probably comes from her social awareness issues – She’s so uncertain that she’s sending the right message subvocally (as she’s only guessing about what those cues mean anyway) that she makes an effort for her verbal communication to be as clear and as precise as possible.
That alt text makes me curious about something. Which side of the real life version of that conversation was Willis on, I wonder? The most obvious choice would be Dina’s, but most obvious isn’t always true. Hm.
Yeah, it is probably Dina’s. Check out the DoA Tumblr. He just answered an ask comparing himself to Dina. Apparently they (Dina and Wilis) are quite alike in mannerisms.
“I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know that Henry knows, and Henry knows that we know. We’re a very knowledgable family.” – Lion in Winter
Honestly, I’d rather put the alcohol in the toppings instead of in the waffle. But that might have more to do with not having mixed alcohol into waffle batter before.
The other problem with putting milk in the bowl first (which I’ve done a few times because I don’t care in the “weirdness” sense and wasn’t aware or forgot about this issue) is that it tends to not stay in the bowl.
I do this, too. I actually do like milk in coffee, but otherwise, I don’t like milk. When I was in college, people used to comment on my preference for dry cereal, and basically telling me I was doing it wrong. I was once told, “But – but, you’re missing the whole concept of cereal.”
Yay for dry cereal! It’s not the milk that got me – I did drink two full glasses at every meal in college – it’s that the milk plus the cereal made a yucky mush, which makes some sensory sensitive people twitch. So dry cereal it is/was.
I also eat cereal dry, but with a glass of milk on the side. Eat a spoonful of cereal, drink a sip of milk, repeat while there’s still cereal and milk.
Now this makes sense to me. Either most folks here linger over their food or they eat cereals I detest – Rice Crispies and Cornflakes don’t get soggy in a hurry.
I sometimes start with milk and then add cereal in small doses, so that it both stays non-yucky mush and I get cereal with milk. Which is better, until it turns into yucky mush.
Sarah tends to deflect with a cold and judgmental facade. It’s a defense that returns her to her comfort zone. It’s usually maladaptive, but it does make sense.
er, sorry for the jargon, there, I’ve been doing homework.
I meant that Sarah’s prickly exterior is probably a bad choice for her social life in general, but it does make sense that she might reflexively try to distract Dina and go towards her comfort zone (being judgmental) instead of doing something hard (admitting that she cares about somebody).
I’m thinking maybe she’s extra stressed out after the previous night’s events and taking it out on Dina but yeah she’s being really antagonistic and I’m not sure why. I feel like she’s not entirely aware that Dina has feelings.
“Antagonistic” is Sarah’s baseline state. She’s uncomfortable with being close or emotionally available, so she’s being hostile to deflect the conversation.
I thought they made sense. Sarah has trouble opening up with how she feels about things. She does care for Joyce, but she’s barely willing to admit it to Joyce, let alone someone she’s only acquainted with like Dina. So she’s trying to change the topic.
I have actually gotten a similar ‘talking to’ from someone I was casual acquaintances with in school over my tendency to separate syllables rather than moosh them together. And I wasn’t even poking at their insecurities at the time. …As far as I know.
……..Wait, -was- I?? I… I don’t even remember what I’d been saying at the time, but my goodness, that would make a lot of sense. I AM RE-REFLECTING ON MY OWN EXPERIENCES BASED ON THIS
(also, like Dina, I immediately tried to prove the accusation false by attempting to adjust my speaking for approximately the length of the very next sentence, and like Sarah, the other person didn’t buy it and pressed further)
In this specific instance, her assholitude is understandable; she’s deflecting the question by falling back on nitpicking Dina’s habits, because it’s a question she really doesn’t want to address.
Not that she’s not being a major dick, but I understand why, and it’s certainly less grating when I can at least understand her motivations.
Actually I feel that her choice of deflection is both not *too* unkind, and it’s also very directly based on what Dina had just said, because her avoidance of contractions in panel 1 is pretty grating, to the point of sounding like robot speak.
Yeah, this. Sarah doesn’t like the truth of Dina’s observations (and I loved’em!) but rather than addressing the implied criticisms directly which would require her to talk about them and thereby acknowledge them, she passive-aggressively nitpicks on irrelevant issues such as, in this case, criticizing how something is said in place of what was said in order to banish the facts of what was said from the conversation. With most people, it probably works like a charm by putting them on the defensive, but Dina, bless her, doesn’t respond so readily because that kind of personal dig is so profoundly opaque to her that if she’s aware of it at all, she’d still see it only in the remote and clinical way she understands most human behavior.
This. A lot. Probably why I actually like Sarah and Dina both – having aspects of each, and having friends with aspects of each, I appreciate a lot of the interplay going on. The only way Sarah is going to win the deflect-o-thon is if she can get Dina to be very self-conscious, or at least self-evaluating, about the thing Sarah is critiquing. That will probably require something harsher than even Sarah is willing to dig at. Probably.
Interesting, this is something Dina didn’t know she does. I’m not going to go check if she has ever used a contraction or not, but it seems like an accurate assessment.
Your deflection tactics are really annoying, Sarah. You should go into politics, maybe, your talents for not answering a question could be useful there.
Oh yeah! She’s gonna be good at that. Until she dislikes one of her clients and annoys them so much in the witness stand that they implicate themselves just to get away from her xD
Tssk tssk tssk. Sarah why won’t you learn?
(Fun fact I changed my comment slightly from what I originally planned to say to force in a contraction…yup, that’s the kind of girl I have become.)
Funny part about Data is that was only retconned in later in the series. He actually used contractions several times in the first season. It was only later they decided that was a thing.
I also wonder which side of the conversation he was on with his wife: and was it concerning contractions or critical statements, or both.
These two together are interesting. Dina asks questions you don’t want to answer. And Sarah makes statements you don’t want to hear.
The problem is Dina is self aware but not very ‘other aware’: so she asks pointed questions. And Sarah isn’t all that happy about opening up to anyone – even adorable souls like Dina.
Sarah does have a point about the way Dina dresses. While she is so cute I want to hug her: she does look like a escapee from SDCC.
It is a base fact of life that, like it or not, we tend to judge people on several levels and clothing is one of ’em. Else why would anyone in their right mind pay $200 for a pair of jeans?
They are both in my favorites circle. They are so different.
“Dina asks questions you don’t want to answer. And Sarah makes statements you don’t want to hear.”
At Indiana University the women’s dorm is populated by two separate, yet equally important individuals. Dina Saruyama, who investigates social interaction, and the Sarah Clinton, who criticizes the offenders. These are their stories.
Yes, Dina, she’s attempting to avoid the question. Which is a shame because I bet the answer, which would be long and complex, would teach you a lot about abnormal human psychology and how it manifests itself in people who consider themselves ‘normal’.
I wonder just who taught Sarah to despise humanity and feel that she is unworthy of friendship?
She does actually but only in “crisis” mode for other people. If things are calm she tends to not use it.
Like when she’s appeared in background/in passing during someone else’s crisis
Dina does use a contraction in this very strip, she says “that’s” which is a contraction of that is or that was, so she does use contractions occasionally.
Note* Shes not the only one who has “no contractions” periods of time, it seems to be a strange plague that goes around dimensions occasionally. Sometimes it seems like certain people will go without using it for a while.
Huh. I’m seeing “the U.S. dollar is going to collapse because of Obama ohnoes” scaremongering advertisements on the site (right hand side, just under the Patreon image). This is something that a variety of far right propagandists and/or con artists have been peddling as “imminent” for the last 7 years, usually for political reasons but occasionally as a way to influence people’s economic activity.
Willis, I don’t know if you personally approve all of the advertising on this site, or whether or not this is something you have control over, or care about. I thought it might be worth mentioning given your general political stance, and that regardless of one’s opinions, it’s fairly blatant misinformation.
Obviously I expect this comment to be deleted, but it’s the main way I can think of to point at this.
Are the ads from Google ads? Because your web history can influence what you see I believe. Right now the banner ad for me is a link to Hijinks Ensues.
I know a guy who wears dinosaur suits out in public sometime. But rather than think it’s infantilizing, most people seem to think it’s mainly a creepy secret fetish.
Well, it’s not a full-body costume, it’s a hoodie with some extra decoration. (Tricera-Top doesn’t seem to be a real brand, but considering the implication of the “top” part of the name, and that while we actually haven’t seen the rest of her outfit, we have seen the waistband of the hoodie, it seems like a reliable guess.)
Well I mean someone like Walky wearing something like that could be considered infantilising as well, but I doubt the same could be said of, say, Joe. I don’t think it’s a gender thing myself.
I used to not use very many contractions. Then I read that a lack of contractions is one of the clues that someone is lying. I started making an effort to put them into how I speak after that just to avoid the appearance of not telling the truth.
I will just point out the funny little fact that there was not a contraction in this comment XD Not that I think you’re lying or anything, it just struck me as funny
I did make a slight effort to both not use them, and not use any combinations that could’ve been a contraction (the last sentence started with “I have” for a bit).
You know this conversation is hilarious, the two socially awkward characters conversing. And despite her normal restrictions Dina is totally schooling Sarah when it comes to the sarcastic comments and whatnot, it is a beautiful thing to watch
Judging by Shortpacked, it was a Transformers costume (Optimus Prime, if I remember correctly), and Maggie was wearing it (not sure if it’s polite for me to use the first name of someone I have never even seen online conversation from. Social protocol is hard).
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“You are trying to change the subject!”
“Dinosaurs are big lizards”
“DINOSAURS ARE MORE LIKE BIRDS“
(me and my last-minute attempts at links)
More like first minute.
Wow, that was a while ago, wasn’t it? USENET jokes, yikes! It’d be Reddit, these days.
Contract, Dina, you know you want to.
Noooooo!
You called ? ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼
But somehow Sarah is a more well liked character than Becky.
I doubt it at this point. Maybe a chapter ago.
At least Sarah has slightly more of a personality than “lesbian”.
. . .
Why do people make these aggressively terrible posts?
You don’t have to like Becky. Not liking Becky is a perfectly viable alternative. But maybe don’t sling shit like that in here.
Sarah is awesome. Her assholishness is a large part of that.
Becky… Becky’s okay. I’ve never *hated* anything about her (aside from her haircut.) but she doesn’t make me laugh nearly as much as Sarah does.
Assholier than thou?
Well nobody asked for a mix of both Walky and Joyce, But I’m also not complaining about it.
Yes, but you see Sarah is straight.
Which flippant as my snark may be, I don’t mean to say that there is intentional homophobia, just that there is often unconscious cultural stuff where characters and people with certain identities often get judged harsher and have less room for error.
It’s part of the reason why some guy babbling on about “girls, amirite” type crap will be given more time by the majority of people before being seen as being annoying than someone who is interpreted as being “aggressively gay” (see also the whole, “ugh, why do they have to shove it down our throats” dynamic).
It’s why women have less margin for standing up for what they believe in before being considered percussion instruments 😉 and why black people aren’t really allowed to publicly show their anger before being read as “dangerous” or otherwise dismissible.
It’s not intentionally or coming from an inherently wrong place, but it does create a dynamic where the margin for failure is a lot narrow for people with marginalized dynamics and its easier for those characters to be viewed negatively faster as this cultural dynamic is really hard to resist even if you are aware of it.
Of course, Sarah is also black. I think, realistically, people who follow these comics long enough to have a favourite character now are probably just those who enjoy the genre-savvy snark factory more than the reminder of how painfully intense they were when they were finding their identity as an adult and it’s not so much to do with unconscious biases.
I hope.
Unrelated, I love that I randomly ended up with Jacob for that comment. His glasses make it seem smarter. HURRAH!
Does your icon change across posts? I always have the same one.
It’s determined by your email address. If you use a different email, you’ll probably get a different avatar (unless the hash function happens to reduce both addresses to the same number). They do get shuffled around whenever Willis adds a new avatar to the mix.
I think it’s the first time I’ve posted here rather than over on Shortpacked, and I never set a gravatar anywhere from sheer laziness so it’s a case of first time lucky I guess.
I don’t care that Sarah is black or that Becky is gay. I care that Sarah seems to be a better *person* than Becky. Becky is messed-up, short-sighted, thoughtless, and very prone to generally unappealing behavior towards others. Sarah can be curt and rude, but when she insults somebody it’s for an actual reason and her analysis is generally right.
That first sentence sounds like you believe prejudice against black folks and gay folks is an entirely conscious or informed decision.
I get your point here, and you aren’t wrong, but at the same time that rabbit hole is pretty dark and deep. The problem with going down it is many fold.
Using the example of “I don’t like Sarah, she’s too bongoy and judgemental.”
1. Someone can be accused of racism in this case – and perhaps sexism – (or homophobia, or whatever in other cases) simply because someone doesn’t like the expressed opinion. “You’re saying that because you’re racist!” And if you try to defend yourself and say it has nothing to do with race, that gets hand waved away with the magic of societal programming, “You don’t even know you’re a racist, but you are!”
Of course that’s the same logic that says all men are racists (guys, how many of you are willing to sign on for that one?) and that woman are *incapable* of giving consent because they are weaker and all just brainwashed victims of the patriarchy (gals, how many are willing to sign up for that one?)
I’d say unless you see a pattern of behaviour, or overt behaviour, its a bit much to call someone a racist (or whatever) simply because they express a dislike of a black person.
2. On the other hand, it can be a far too convenient excuse for bad behaviour. “Not my fault, it’s society’s fault. I can’t help it.” And then continue being a jerk with a convenient lack of responsiblty for their actions.
I say B.S. We can choose not to do something. Our prejudices and biases will always be there, but unless we are totally clueless we can spot most of them, and keep the worst elements tied down.
3. Related to both above points. It’s easy then to say everyone is X. Which by definition is prejudice in its own right. And whether you’re saying “all Mexicans are criminals” (thanks Donald) or all whites are racist, it is pre-judging people (pre-judge, prejudice… Funny how that works).
Even growing up in an environment that is heavy with racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatever doesn’t guarantee that someone will be that thing. And even being one doesn’t mean you’ll stay one. And vice-versa, someone can develop prejudice as they go through life.
Prejudice is not an informed decision – hell, it seems like most people don’t make information decisions about most things. Nor is it entirely conscious. But neither is it without its logic (no matter how spurious that logic may be), nor is it something we are completely unaware of.
And it’s also not bihary; yes-no, on-off.
I read about a fellow who was middle aged back in the 50s and 60s. He was a racist, there wasn’t much doubt of that. But he fought against segregation, and he fought for equality for blacks, and more. That contradiction may seem hard to understand, but there it was.
Then there was the Republican (a congressman IIRC) who didn’t like gays, was against gay marriage, etc. And then one day he found himself sitting and talking with a gay couple and realized that they were just two people in love. It changed his attitude.
I doubt he went off to march in Gay Pride parades (or maybe he did) but at the least I bet he adopted a more ‘live and let live’ attitude. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Damn it, that should have read “all men are rapists”
That’s quite a correction. What was “bongoy” supposed to be?
I’m not even going to touch that particularly odd interpretation of Schroedinger’s Rapist, so instead I’ll just clarify a few things in my argument.
I’m not saying that people are being cartoonishly Donald Trumpianly bigoted in their responses, but rather that unconscious bias transmitted through culture has a small, but noticeable effect on people’s actions. And often times it is downright impossible to shake said inheritance even if you are an actively conscious member of the group being targeted (which is why internalized homophobia/sexism/racism is a thing).
It doesn’t make people bad people that this happens, it’s just a part of the culture that gives marginalized group members a little less slack, gives them a little harder road to clear, allows the majority to identify a little easier, and so on. Little things that are genuinely hard to notice if you aren’t a member of the group being affected directly by it and even then, not necessarily easy.
It’s more about the type of small stuff that leads to the effects noticed in studies where say black names or names traditionally gendered female on college applications and job applications get viewed as inherently less valuable than identical resumes with white names or names traditionally gendered male.
That sort of thing is not easy to escape entirely, even when one is actively trying to be conscious of it.
Dammit, the point of privilege and “any man could be a rapist” is not that you have to constantly be defending yourself, it’s to be -aware of the innate power you have and to make sure you are responsible in excercising it-.
If a feminist tells you “to a woman, any man could be a rapist”, the lesson to be learned is not that you are being punished, but that you need to be cautious when having intercourse because you could be intensely harming your partner even if you don’t intend it, just because of stuff like society telling women to “lie back and bear it”.
If your first response to “life is immensely unfair and people are suffering real, atrocious pain from that injustice” is to scramble to say “well, I don’t feel like it’s -my- fault!”, instead of “what can I do to help please tell me!”, then you’re the asshole.
“Even growing up in an environment that is heavy with racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatever doesn’t guarantee that someone will be that thing. And even being one doesn’t mean you’ll stay one. And vice-versa, someone can develop prejudice as they go through life.”
Being accused of being a racist or rapist is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. Yes, it’s an intensely painful experience, and it shouldn’t happen to anyone who doesn’t deserve it, but the things it is in response to are far more painful. The entire lesson to be learned is the same thing Spiderman tries to teach: Whites and Men have power, and they are fucking -scary- to everyone else — and the only way that’s going to end well is if they are aware of that, and take steps to mitigate it.
M-My first sentence was to state that I don’t base my opinions on Sarah because of her color or on Becky because of her orientation. I mean, I’ve known Sarah for like *decades*, and I’ve been encountering gay people in comics (especially Willis comics), for years and years. I react to them differently than I do real-life people, because the context in which I know them is massively different. And since I’ve had such massive exposure to what they think and feel that that’s obviously what I’m going to base my opinions on.
This is not to say I’m totally free of racism or homophobia. Heck, I’m very likely a closet homophobe and could easily be a closet racist, simply because I’ve hardly *met* either type of person. (That I know of, in the case of gay people.) Unfamiliarity breeds, at the least, a momentary surprised reaction when I see a black person (or, say, a white person with a mohawk) walking down the streets of Boise, Idaho. This is despite my being intellectually and in my overt actions at least a mimicry of a decent person.
So yeah, I’m not perfect, but damn, am I know allowed to have an opinion of these fictional characters based on the many, many hours I’ve spent reading about them?
“Am I not allowed”. Dammit.
Media is a lot to blame for reinforcing stereotypes and preconceptions. Putting emphasis on the race or sex of the perpetrator when it match a stereotype. News about a drug lord… he’s Mexican. A killing… Italian mob is suspected.
Of course all those reality TV shows don’t help either as they make a point of choosing the most obnoxiously stereotypical people they can find.
In the US when Obama became president I remember the media being so surprised about a black president they talk about it for weeks and weeks on end. In the 21st Century, this kind of thing should not be surprising or shocking but still is apparently.
I can imagine news room exploding when a non-Christian Korean women become their president. But of course Trump will have his say in this.
KKoro: “Prejudice is OK when I do it. Your pain is less important than mine.”
Shugo, you’re really good at being dishonest! Kudos.
As a white man (the group i was saying need to be aware of their power), yes, I’m allowed to judge myself.
Like I -actually- said, and like the opposite of what you tried to paint it as, the point of the privelege concept is not a free pass for everyone unlike me to “get their turn to be racist”, but for -people like me- to recognize that, by nature, we intimidate and scare those around us, -and that we need to be vigilant to not exploit that any more-.
You know, instead of sticking our head in the sand and claiming that everyone deserves exactly what they have, like you seem to be doing.
Your point may have been somewhat obscured when you said that you’re an asshole if you defend yourself against false charges of being a racist or rapist.
… did you forget the strip where Amazi-Girl is asking Sarah about potential ding-dong bandit suspects, and she pretty much ragged on everyone in her hall, to the point where she said something like “And Rachel is too pretty to be a good person”? (sorry, don’t have time for an archive trawl to find the actual strip)
When you’re asked if somebody’s a criminal you go into criticism mode, because assessing everybody’s dark side inherently requires criticism.
Speaking of which, what were *you* doing last night? (backs away)
NOTHING! Who’ve you been speaking to?
I did nothing, you saw nothing, I was never here.
^<____>^
*shoves begbert2 off of a cliff, runs away*
Also, begbert, my first response was to eric, thats why I quoted him.
Very true. Sarah has different ranges where she is on a thinner edge and that has been reflected in receiving slightly less slack than say a Mike or a Joe on certain fuckups (such as the collapse of the Jacob friendship). Additionally, she definitely has other unconscious stuff applied against her (such as little calls for more focus on her and her stories even though she’s one of the main cast) and a similar reflection in the popularity polls.
But overall, it’s a bad example for me to pick as Sarah gets a lot of slack from the community for her actions owing to what she did for Joyce at the party and also for her shortly after.
And you are absolutely right that identification plays a huge role. Fewer people can probably relate to the experience of being a homeless queer youth desperately trying to cobble together an identity on the fly than that of a snarky genre-savvy smartass.
But yeah, good points all. I think your Jacob glasses are well-earned here.
In regards to her and Jacob’s friend-break up, was there that much criticism of Sarah? I’m fairly critical of her myself, but I think we all understood that, while it wasn’t really good her actions were understandable given her neuroses. I’ve been in Sarah’s shoes and, while I wasn’t calling for fire and brimstone to rain upon her, my reaction was a lot of “stop! desist! talk to him!”
Sarah does genuinely frustrate me at times, even though I know a lot of her worst aspects are formed from bad experiences and that she’s capable of tremendous acts of love. If anything I get the feeling that, because of her problems (that I imagine a lot of people sympathize with), she gets her fair share from the fandom, in so far as every character has haters and defenders, anyway.
The homelessness didn’t even occur to me. I just remember how insufferable I was when I realised something about myself in my late teens that made the way I socialised totally different. I’m pretty sure 30 year old me would find 20 year old me to be the worst person ever due to that.
Sarahs my favourite because shes more often than not right when she says something, warned Joyce about what would happen at the party and then, even when she had no real reason to, saved Joyce and dealt to the asshole with a baseball bat
I mean no real reason to attend the party as both Dorothy and Billie were there to look out for Joyce
Wait… there are people that like Sarah?
SURPRISED? *w*
I dunno about “like” so much as “relate to”. Serious, annoyed by constant frivolity, and both exasperated by and overly protective of the Joyces of the world is someone that’s a lot easier to understand than most of the melodramatically overblown personalities in this strip.
This pretty much explains it. There are other aspects that can be related to as well.
I like Sarah, because I can relate to her. I’ve been in her shoes all my life; criticized for doing what was right, even though it was incredibly hard for me to do. I’ve also developed serious trust issues and anxiety in large part due to these experiences. I’ve had friends tell me their first impression of me was awful because I seemed rude and standoffish to them, which was due to my anxiety. I have trouble making friends, and keeping them. I can see why people dislike Sarah, but it’s the outright hate that I don’t get. She saved Joyce from being raped and possibly killed, and even though she encouraged Joyce to report it to the police, she didn’t push when Sarah made the decision not to. She also took in Becky even though she thought it was an awful idea.
I meant Joyce, when Joyce made the decision not to report the attack to the police, Sarah didn’t give her a hard time about it.
Sarah is awesome, and I will fight anyone that says otherwise.*
*No, I will not really fight them. I would probably lose.
If they’re willing to come to me, I’d fight them in your stead.
I don’t feel strongly about it, but I need more sparring partners.
are you kidding? Sarah has and will forever be my #1 favorite character ever since the “Old Testament God” strip.
Yeah, that strip was awesome. sarah has been my favorite for a while, I kept hoping that she would be a magnet.
Yeah well, y’know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
Seriously, it’d take a poll or something to really know which characters are better liked by the readers, and if I had to bet on something, I bet the results would be pretty close in most cases. I don’t like Sarah any more, or less, than Becky, I think they’re both great characters. In fact, there are hardly any characters in the strip I don’t like.
Well, more like an assumption.
Doesn’t Sarah usually score fairly low on the popularity polls? I know in the last one Becky had more votes than Dina for a while before settling into second place.
You’re right about Sarah, but I’d be interested to see how Becky would do in a poll now–when the last one ran, she’d just woken up the morning after her confession, and a lot of the irritation people had hadn’t happened yet.
Heh, probably. God forbid Becky not be the perfect gay victim.
Nor had the Dina kiss. Should be interesting.
I never minded Sarah. Until That Story where she got her roommate kicked out because her grieving was an inconvenience to her. That’s the moment Sarah lost me completely.
She has got me doing it too.
Man, remember when Faye didn’t use contractions?
Wait, really?
It was a thing early on in the comic. Everytime she dropped one it became a ‘BIG DEAL MAN FAYE IS BECOMING MORE COMFORTABLE AROUND THESE GUYS.’
Yep, that was one of her things in the early days of QC. She only used them when she got drunk, which also brought her southern accent back.
Dina is also hiding her Southern accent, too.
SHOCK TWIST: Dina killed Faye’s father.
Dina went to the same boarding school as Sal.
Definitly. It’s the first char I’ve seen it mentionned for (tho english being my 3rd language, it’s not something I’d really have noticed)
Too bad JJ ran out of ideas for a story a while back and now it’s just bland mini-stories.
We should not use contractions in the message boards for this strip
You’ll find that I don’t agree with this proposal.
You should not have said that, now I will have to take revenge!
Appropriate avatar. Revenge away.
I’ll help you in your quest for vengeance.
A world eater would be a good companion in a quest for revenge.
While your efforts may be in vain, I applaud your willingness to pursue them.
Even your allies mock your efforts, I am afraid to say.
Though I would say that perhaps a world eater is too destructive.
One would think so, but they have proven notoriously prone to betrayal. Still, they are swell company.
Also, I love how you used a contraction in that post when you want to assist me. It would be like if one of the jokers goons dressed up as batman
It’s all part of the plan.
Batman: I won’t kill you, but I don’t have to save you
Me: Will not, do not
Worst Nolan Batman line ever. He has to save everyone, he’s Batman.
More to the point, not saving someone and then patting yourself on the back for being a better person than if you’d murdered them yourself is pretty weasely and meaningless IMHO.
I am reminded of that one Babylon 5 episode where G’kar and Londo are trapped in the elevator, where G’kar really wants Londo dead, but if he kills him, his entire family will be killed in retaliation. And now here they are trapped, and all he has to do is not help Londo escape, and they will both die, and his family won’t be killed. 😀 Sometimes the difference between actual murder and just not saving them is an important distinction. 😉
It’s a pretty great episode. Hell, it’s a great series.
–I am also reminded of the original Adam West Batman movie, and the bomb and the bloody ducks. >< THEY'RE DUCKS. TOSS THE BOMB ALREADY.
Somedays you just can’t get rid of a bomb
My favourite line from the movie. “Some days you just can’t get rid of a bomb.”
Old school Batman was such a Boy Scout c:
Also yasssssss BABYLON 5, more people need to reference it around me so I can glee
Also, an earlier comment already used a contraction.
Does this imply that Dina has trouble understanding people who use contractions? Or does she have an accent she’s sensitive about? I want to know!
I read, for instance, how “that’s” could mean “that is” or “that was” without context to tell what was meant.
I think that she just has a thing with clear communication. It probably comes from her social awareness issues – She’s so uncertain that she’s sending the right message subvocally (as she’s only guessing about what those cues mean anyway) that she makes an effort for her verbal communication to be as clear and as precise as possible.
That alt text makes me curious about something. Which side of the real life version of that conversation was Willis on, I wonder? The most obvious choice would be Dina’s, but most obvious isn’t always true. Hm.
Is he married to Starfire?
Or Data?
I strongly suspect this is relevant.
Yeah, it is probably Dina’s. Check out the DoA Tumblr. He just answered an ask comparing himself to Dina. Apparently they (Dina and Wilis) are quite alike in mannerisms.
I know that you know that I know…
“Don’t think I don’t know what you think I don’t know.”–Henry Blake on M*A*S*H (TV series)
How do you know that he doesn’t know that you know that he knows that you know, you know? – Varric Tethras
“I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know that Henry knows, and Henry knows that we know. We’re a very knowledgable family.” – Lion in Winter
Hmm… I wonder if Dina had a stutter or some other speech impediment earlier in life and now does this to compensate.
Its cool. If your evil twin ever shows up, Wesley will be able to tell you two apart when she uses a contraction.
I’m trying hard to imagine how Evil Dina would act. Probably exactly the same, but she pours milk in the bowl before cereal.
Is that seriously a thing? The milk first thing, I mean.
I actually eat my cereal dry.
No I’m not lactose intolerant, I just don’t like the taste of milk.
Nah that’s pretty understandable. Putting milk in a bowl first is what’s “weird”.
I once put water in my cup before the ice. That was a bad day.
I have no idea why I thought pouring Bailey’s (and later, White Russians) over cereal would be a good idea when I was 19.
Cause breakfast is too early for drinking but you found a loophole.
There’s also vodka and orange juice. Or mimosas. Of course, with the internet you could find other things to add to that loophole.
Or something unfortunate like PBR waffles.
Hmmm, do you think it’d work with rum?
Honestly, I’d rather put the alcohol in the toppings instead of in the waffle. But that might have more to do with not having mixed alcohol into waffle batter before.
Irish coffee, people.
…White Russian + cereal actually sounds like a passable dessert. *strokes chin*
The other problem with putting milk in the bowl first (which I’ve done a few times because I don’t care in the “weirdness” sense and wasn’t aware or forgot about this issue) is that it tends to not stay in the bowl.
It just doesn’t make sense. It creates a mess with all the splashing, and milk smells weird if you don’t clean it up.
It smells weird for a reason. Milk spills are a veritable buffet for every nasty microorganism around; they’re unsanitary as heck.
I do this, too. I actually do like milk in coffee, but otherwise, I don’t like milk. When I was in college, people used to comment on my preference for dry cereal, and basically telling me I was doing it wrong. I was once told, “But – but, you’re missing the whole concept of cereal.”
Yay for dry cereal! It’s not the milk that got me – I did drink two full glasses at every meal in college – it’s that the milk plus the cereal made a yucky mush, which makes some sensory sensitive people twitch. So dry cereal it is/was.
I also eat cereal dry, but with a glass of milk on the side. Eat a spoonful of cereal, drink a sip of milk, repeat while there’s still cereal and milk.
Now this makes sense to me. Either most folks here linger over their food or they eat cereals I detest – Rice Crispies and Cornflakes don’t get soggy in a hurry.
I sometimes start with milk and then add cereal in small doses, so that it both stays non-yucky mush and I get cereal with milk. Which is better, until it turns into yucky mush.
Yeah, same thing here. I just like crunchy food.
My six-year-old daughter does it. I have no idea why. Slops the milk everywhere.
Evil Dina wears a full dinosaur costume, but leaves the head off.
That’s not evil, it’s just impractical.
Evil Dina is obsessed with asteroids.
And can play songs from the Armageddon soundtrack on a piano.
She likes Michael Bay movies? She’s more evil than I imagined.
Nah, Evil Dina is just normal Dina with a goatee.
OH NO I AM EVIL
I can only assume that Evil Dina’s name is Lori or something and she wants to summon a giant piece of rock candy to murder everyone.
Ok thanks for the English lesson but it wasn’t really needed.
Wait are you Yoto with a name Change? Or do you just have the same gravatar as him?
Yoto? You mean Yotomo? We’re Two completely different guys, though I am a bit jelous of him. God knows I wish I could be an artist.
newllend and Yotomoe have significantly different avatars. Yotomoe’s also been here longer.
newllend used to use Monkey D. Luffy and Pikachu as avatars. I find I much prefer this one.
Flattering
Do you know who uses contractions the most? Pregnant women.
*Bobom-tish*
Bleh, messed it up…
It happens sometimes.
Okay, I know Sarah is not great with people, but her actions in this strip do not actually make sense at all.
She legit doesn’t want to answer the question because she doesn’t want to admit she cares about Joyce. Of course she wants to deflect.
Sarah tends to deflect with a cold and judgmental facade. It’s a defense that returns her to her comfort zone. It’s usually maladaptive, but it does make sense.
er, sorry for the jargon, there, I’ve been doing homework.
I meant that Sarah’s prickly exterior is probably a bad choice for her social life in general, but it does make sense that she might reflexively try to distract Dina and go towards her comfort zone (being judgmental) instead of doing something hard (admitting that she cares about somebody).
I’m thinking maybe she’s extra stressed out after the previous night’s events and taking it out on Dina but yeah she’s being really antagonistic and I’m not sure why. I feel like she’s not entirely aware that Dina has feelings.
“Antagonistic” is Sarah’s baseline state. She’s uncomfortable with being close or emotionally available, so she’s being hostile to deflect the conversation.
I thought they made sense. Sarah has trouble opening up with how she feels about things. She does care for Joyce, but she’s barely willing to admit it to Joyce, let alone someone she’s only acquainted with like Dina. So she’s trying to change the topic.
I have actually gotten a similar ‘talking to’ from someone I was casual acquaintances with in school over my tendency to separate syllables rather than moosh them together. And I wasn’t even poking at their insecurities at the time. …As far as I know.
……..Wait, -was- I?? I… I don’t even remember what I’d been saying at the time, but my goodness, that would make a lot of sense. I AM RE-REFLECTING ON MY OWN EXPERIENCES BASED ON THIS
(also, like Dina, I immediately tried to prove the accusation false by attempting to adjust my speaking for approximately the length of the very next sentence, and like Sarah, the other person didn’t buy it and pressed further)
Man, it’s hard enough for Dina to feel successful in talking to people. But most people don’t notice deflections like she just did.
For Dina, human interaction is an effort, but that also means that she always tries to pay total attention to it.
OK I usually don’t have a problem with Sarah but right now she’s just being a bit of a dick.
Yeah, this seems like a low blow, since Sarah has seen Dina act in line with social anxiety. Seems that Dina can take it, though.
In this specific instance, her assholitude is understandable; she’s deflecting the question by falling back on nitpicking Dina’s habits, because it’s a question she really doesn’t want to address.
Not that she’s not being a major dick, but I understand why, and it’s certainly less grating when I can at least understand her motivations.
Oh no I completely understand that Sarah is deflecting the question but she could have deflected with something else I think.
Actually I feel that her choice of deflection is both not *too* unkind, and it’s also very directly based on what Dina had just said, because her avoidance of contractions in panel 1 is pretty grating, to the point of sounding like robot speak.
Yeah, this. Sarah doesn’t like the truth of Dina’s observations (and I loved’em!) but rather than addressing the implied criticisms directly which would require her to talk about them and thereby acknowledge them, she passive-aggressively nitpicks on irrelevant issues such as, in this case, criticizing how something is said in place of what was said in order to banish the facts of what was said from the conversation. With most people, it probably works like a charm by putting them on the defensive, but Dina, bless her, doesn’t respond so readily because that kind of personal dig is so profoundly opaque to her that if she’s aware of it at all, she’d still see it only in the remote and clinical way she understands most human behavior.
This. A lot. Probably why I actually like Sarah and Dina both – having aspects of each, and having friends with aspects of each, I appreciate a lot of the interplay going on. The only way Sarah is going to win the deflect-o-thon is if she can get Dina to be very self-conscious, or at least self-evaluating, about the thing Sarah is critiquing. That will probably require something harsher than even Sarah is willing to dig at. Probably.
Sarah’s practicing her lawyer doubletalk skills here.
“my wife had this conversation with me early in our courtship”
My wife still has this conversation with me.
Sarah, Sarah, Sarah – who’s the one acting like a child, again?
Thanks to your gravatar, I’m imagining an alternate universe Sarah acting as an outside observer to this scene saying that.
Yeah, she’s about a month’s worth of maturity away from sticking her tongue out at Dina in that last panel.
Yey, bonding
So this is one small step towards Sarah and Dina eventually having twins? 😉
I was a little bit scared when I saw the title before the strip…
It’s all babies.
Everything is babies.
And they are named McIntyre.
Interesting, this is something Dina didn’t know she does. I’m not going to go check if she has ever used a contraction or not, but it seems like an accurate assessment.
Your deflection tactics are really annoying, Sarah. You should go into politics, maybe, your talents for not answering a question could be useful there.
Well, she is planning to be a lawyer.
Oh yeah! She’s gonna be good at that. Until she dislikes one of her clients and annoys them so much in the witness stand that they implicate themselves just to get away from her xD
Sarah is so unbearable to be around. :/
Slight correction – Sarah wants to be unbearable to be around. Which is very sad.
So if anyone’s curious, cause I was… Dina uses contractions megapost:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/05-media-rumble/mine/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/raid/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/02-uphill-from-here/apology/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/waffles/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/digit/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/gone/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/cereal/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/toomuch/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/weird/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/missingout/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/better-2/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/hug-2/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/derelict/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/proven/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/slurp/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/flushots/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/support/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/halfthefloor/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/complicit/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/upset/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/02-i-was-a-teenage-churchmouse/misread/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/02-i-was-a-teenage-churchmouse/nemesis-2/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/overstepped/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/curating/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/breakfastofchampions/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/breakfastofchampions/
Also this, no contractions just may favourite Dina strip. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/return/
Because I am insane, I looked through every strip to determine that Sarah appeared a total of 3 times.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/slurp/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/flushots/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/missingout/
Tssk tssk tssk. Sarah why won’t you learn?
(Fun fact I changed my comment slightly from what I originally planned to say to force in a contraction…yup, that’s the kind of girl I have become.)
Good job!
Thanks!
It’s good to know someone got something out of this.
Yes, yes I did
I was confused by this comment for longer than I care to admit.
Not even going to ask how long it took you to compile this…but it’s (it is) worth it to show that Dina’s speech isn’t (is not) that abnormal.
REBUILD OF WALKYVERSE 3.0
You Are (Not) Abnormal
You didn’t ask but I’m gonna let you know that it only took about fifteen minutes anyhow 😛
Really? Nobody’s going to say it?
Fine then.
CLEVER GIRL.
Which one?
Go Dina!!
Thank you, Mister Data.
Yeah that was my first thought, too. I guess it would make sense that Dina would have a lot in common with him.
Funny part about Data is that was only retconned in later in the series. He actually used contractions several times in the first season. It was only later they decided that was a thing.
Just like Dina!
I’m really liking Dina here. ^_^ Love the self-awareness and smarts.
Sarah REALLY needs to flip that bongo-switch to off.
And then break it off the goddamn machine.
I also wonder which side of the conversation he was on with his wife: and was it concerning contractions or critical statements, or both.
These two together are interesting. Dina asks questions you don’t want to answer. And Sarah makes statements you don’t want to hear.
The problem is Dina is self aware but not very ‘other aware’: so she asks pointed questions. And Sarah isn’t all that happy about opening up to anyone – even adorable souls like Dina.
Sarah does have a point about the way Dina dresses. While she is so cute I want to hug her: she does look like a escapee from SDCC.
It is a base fact of life that, like it or not, we tend to judge people on several levels and clothing is one of ’em. Else why would anyone in their right mind pay $200 for a pair of jeans?
They are both in my favorites circle. They are so different.
“Dina asks questions you don’t want to answer. And Sarah makes statements you don’t want to hear.”
At Indiana University the women’s dorm is populated by two separate, yet equally important individuals. Dina Saruyama, who investigates social interaction, and the Sarah Clinton, who criticizes the offenders. These are their stories.
http://i.imgur.com/MnhGdhA.gif
*chungchung*
Rawr and Order?
Yes, Dina, she’s attempting to avoid the question. Which is a shame because I bet the answer, which would be long and complex, would teach you a lot about abnormal human psychology and how it manifests itself in people who consider themselves ‘normal’.
I wonder just who taught Sarah to despise humanity and feel that she is unworthy of friendship?
My guess is, people.
People-people.
She IS attempting to divert attention!
And she is good at it!
And then she beat you senseless for using words like “courtship”
Sarah you are in college stop acting like a pubescent child. Next you’ll be mimicking everything she says.
There is no way Dina hasn’t used contractions before… I’m going to check.
I found a few random comics with Dina in them. She… does not use contractions. Like at all.
She does actually but only in “crisis” mode for other people. If things are calm she tends to not use it.
Like when she’s appeared in background/in passing during someone else’s crisis
Dina does use a contraction in this very strip, she says “that’s” which is a contraction of that is or that was, so she does use contractions occasionally.
It’s a cut speech pattern. It has been for the last decade and a half
Note* Shes not the only one who has “no contractions” periods of time, it seems to be a strange plague that goes around dimensions occasionally. Sometimes it seems like certain people will go without using it for a while.
Saraaaaaaaaaah. >_<
Dina is adorable. I’d totally listen to all her talk of dinosaurs if she gave me a kiss
Methinks Sarah doth protest too much…
Methinks Sarah doth protest too much like someone a third her age…
Sarah, not allowing discussion of your problems won’t make them go away. You’ll learn one day (hopefully).
I always imagine Dina to have the same voice as BMO from adventure time. Fits really well.
Dina is secretly a Vulcan :p
Huh. I’m seeing “the U.S. dollar is going to collapse because of Obama ohnoes” scaremongering advertisements on the site (right hand side, just under the Patreon image). This is something that a variety of far right propagandists and/or con artists have been peddling as “imminent” for the last 7 years, usually for political reasons but occasionally as a way to influence people’s economic activity.
Willis, I don’t know if you personally approve all of the advertising on this site, or whether or not this is something you have control over, or care about. I thought it might be worth mentioning given your general political stance, and that regardless of one’s opinions, it’s fairly blatant misinformation.
Obviously I expect this comment to be deleted, but it’s the main way I can think of to point at this.
I’ve seen advertisements for dinosaur romance on the It’s Walky page.
I’m guessing he doesn’t control it.
Are the ads from Google ads? Because your web history can influence what you see I believe. Right now the banner ad for me is a link to Hijinks Ensues.
If there’s something in my web history that indicates an interest in space dinosaur erotica I’m probably going to jump off a cliff.
You probably talked a bit too much about Dina then. Although, to be honest, that is blatantly impossible. My advice is to install an add blocker.
*Sniggers maniacally*
Don’t mind me, I’m just leaving a…. book review here. Yup, just a book review.
NOT SAFE FOR WORK OR BROWSER HISTORY
*snigger*
Well, look at that. The bongo filter works on URLs as well. You’ll have to change it manually.
It’s worth it – promise 🙂
Damn you, Christie Sims!
I believe Willis’ standard statement for things like this are ‘better here where nobody cares than elsewhere where someone might listen’.
“Obviously I expect this comment to be deleted”
Not obvious at all. Why would it be deleted?
I know a guy who wears dinosaur suits out in public sometime. But rather than think it’s infantilizing, most people seem to think it’s mainly a creepy secret fetish.
Well, it’s not a full-body costume, it’s a hoodie with some extra decoration. (Tricera-Top doesn’t seem to be a real brand, but considering the implication of the “top” part of the name, and that while we actually haven’t seen the rest of her outfit, we have seen the waistband of the hoodie, it seems like a reliable guess.)
Also, sexism.
Well I mean someone like Walky wearing something like that could be considered infantilising as well, but I doubt the same could be said of, say, Joe. I don’t think it’s a gender thing myself.
Oh no the Tricera-Top is an actual thing. Somebody put a link to it in the previous strip. Too bad it’s flippin’ expensive, $163.
Im pretty sure the alt-text counts as OFFICIAL endorsement of Sarah/Dina shipping
That is a nice interpretation. But will Becky be willing to make the ship Becky/Dina/Sarah?
She’s trying to hide her southern accent.
I didn’t know Dina = Faye was a plausible theory, but I think it’s safe to call it “pretty much canon” now.
I used to not use very many contractions. Then I read that a lack of contractions is one of the clues that someone is lying. I started making an effort to put them into how I speak after that just to avoid the appearance of not telling the truth.
I will just point out the funny little fact that there was not a contraction in this comment XD Not that I think you’re lying or anything, it just struck me as funny
I did make a slight effort to both not use them, and not use any combinations that could’ve been a contraction (the last sentence started with “I have” for a bit).
You know this conversation is hilarious, the two socially awkward characters conversing. And despite her normal restrictions Dina is totally schooling Sarah when it comes to the sarcastic comments and whatnot, it is a beautiful thing to watch
Ref the alt text. So Sir Willis, who was wearing the dino costume?
Judging by Shortpacked, it was a Transformers costume (Optimus Prime, if I remember correctly), and Maggie was wearing it (not sure if it’s polite for me to use the first name of someone I have never even seen online conversation from. Social protocol is hard).
Oh Sarah. You so likeable.
Contraction distraction.
This sounds an awful lot like Faye in early QC strips…was this a shout to Jeph Jacques?