Just had an interesting thought: considering how sheltered she’d been brought up, who knows if Becky’s even seen a picture of a penis before. And already she has come to the conclusion that she’s a lesbian. What if she sees a picture of an erect penis, and she finds that does it for her? What if it turns out that Becky actually isn’t a lesbian at all, or at least is homoromantic but not homosexual?
Obviously Willis would never write it this way, considering his strong liberal attitude. I extremely doubt that Willis would ever write a character who claims to be gay but actually is going through “a phase” because such a plot twist would send the totally wrong message of that being applicable to other, confirmed gays and lesbians. Understandably, that “phase” word is so hurtful to the LGBT community that many convince everyone that it’s not simply a phase for anyone, ultimately repaying ignorance with ignorance.
I only bring it up because I find that direction to be a very promising twist, storytelling-wise, and would lead to a lot of character development and conflict.
Uh that’s not actually how sexuality works. Becky may not have seen penises but she’s seen enough men to know that she’s not attracted to them. Sexuality is more of a whole package deal- face, body and personality not just genitalia.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess you’re straight and male. Did you realize you liked girls only after seeing a vagina?
Yup. It’s genuinely disgusting. And I’m sorry to speak brusquely there, but there is something deeply offputting viscerally with some cis dude sunglass avatar perving on how much “better” the story would be if the homeless lesbian saw the D and fell in love. It’s dismissive of orientation, is part and parcel of a long social tradition of assuming that all lesbians are liars about their life experiences and desires (which is why corrective rape is not only a thing, but a not uncommon thing), is reductionist of queer women, and just kinda gross. Like creepy straight man leering at the back of the Dyke Bar gross. It’s like cis straight male sexuality already dominates so much of society, does it really need to force itself on the tiny amount of queer girl representation we get?
And sorry for the brusque and visceral response on this one. I’m just kinda literally grossed out with this.
I’m replying to this since I can’t reply directly to Cerberus. I think that What was meant was that it’d be cool if she didn’t know much but found out that sexual orientation didn’t have to match romantic and was actually homoromantic and heterosexual. It might be nice if there was a character who represented different sexual orientation than romantic orientation. There are a few problems with becky being homoromantic and heterosexual. She has shown enough signs of being sexually attracted to females that I would think heterosexuality would seem out of the blue. As for the point about queer girl representation. People with differing romantic and sexual interests get even less representation. I am not saying sunglasses is correct but People are too quick to jump at perceived offences. Please don’t jump at people while assuming the worst.
Lyaatd-
Not really, what was meant was that no one can really know they are gay until they get a good meaty eyeful of dick, which bothers me. And not in a oh noes, my lieberal bubble is melting bothers, but literally retching over the sink a little because that attitude if you are a queer person is downright oppressive. The vast majority of queer women’s events in the last year I have gone to have been invaded by gross cis straight dudes thinking their dick will make all the queer ladies straight. I’ve been through no end of gross cis dudes “jokingly” suggesting that every lesbian is bi at heart. And someone feeling that me being snuggly with my girlfriend was a personal come on to him very nearly got me murdered on a public street.
When I say this is gross. I mean, not only is it appalling and cliched, but also massively triggering*. In a really bad, day-destroying way (PTSD is fun, I recommend it for everyone, super awesome).
*And a pre-emptive Carla-style robotic third middle-finger for anyone who instinctively rolled their eyes there.
And it’s even worse when this “dick will cure her” type statements are made about someone who is literally homeless and in very near and present danger because her dad thinks she can be “cured”. Who is in VERY real danger of being sent to a place that will in fact try to “cure her with dick”. That is so many levels of not cool, I’m not entirely sure it can be bound by infinity.
So no, I do not believe we are failing to appreciate his “intention”.
But as far as your statement, yeah, it would be nice to have a character of mixed orientations between romantic and sexual. This is not the character to do it with. Doing it with this character and with this plotline would be really fucked.
Honestly, if Willis did go that plotline, I expect it to be with someone presumed to be straight in the other universe and them turning out to be homoromantic but heterosexual or something.
you know… i actually dislike the way you use cis. i know that you say it because you seem to think it means everyone who is straight… cis is short for cisgendered, which means a person who identifies with the gender they were born as… nowhere, not even on urban dictionary, does it define a person who is straight. i dont like being called cis when speaking to my sexuality. i am straight, not that i wouldnt be perfectly happy in a homosexual relationship if the right person came along, but as it stands ive found the person im going to spend the rest of my life with, as long as she’ll have me, and the relationship happens to be straight. im not bi, im not straight. frankly im not really even that attracted to women. i guess my closest thing is some kind of romantic sexuality… regardless, you’re using the word wrong, and id like you to stop.
FURTHERMORE, willis will do whatever willis damn well pleases with his characters… if you’ve read the universe this far i should hope you understand that. your personal experience does not apply to a world in which the only thing that matters is the whim of a single man, no matter how liberal or conservative.
Indeed. Cis means cisgender and that is my intended usage as I feel it is important and critical distinction to make when talking about a particular type of negative behavior I regularly encounter. Gross entitled intrusion of the type that views lesbians as “prizes” that prove “virility” is not a behavior I have typically encountered from trans straight men. It is a behavior I have encountered regularly from those who are cis and identify their sexual orientation as straight. And that intrusion is a daily lived experience for out queer women that can get a bit hard to take after awhile even when they aren’t all fucked up like I am.
I apologize if I made it seem like I intended to use cis as a replacement for straight as that is not at all my intention and I apologize for any distress or confusion caused by this lack of clarity on this part.
As far as Willis doing what he pleases, I am very much in agreement. It’s his universe. I like what he’s doing with it. It wouldn’t matter if I didn’t. My approval matters not one squat to the stories he wants to tell. As it is, I rather like the stories he tells. They are very powerful and healing for me on multiple levels and has given me representations I was not expecting to encounter in fiction (trans aces for instance). But yeah, if that wasn’t the case, it wouldn’t matter a toss.
Which is aptly demonstrated by the giant mock fest Willis has been making on tumblr and his twitter about the gross statements by mario and the overall thrust of homophobic “idea men” who’ve been pitching “better twists” to him for the last few strips now.
And I apologize as well for whatever in my statement gave you the idea that I thought otherwise with regards to that.
I also want to make very clear that what I find gross and inappropriate is mario’s “suggestions” for the “improvement” of the comic owing to what they imply for actual real people in the real world owing to the type of story being told rather than anything in the comic or the actions of Willis.
I understand that this particular set of “suggestions” on the part of Mario has me considerably more raw than usual with regards to these types of “we swear we’re not homophobic, we’re just making a ‘writing’ suggestion” commenters, which is probably negatively impacting my clarity on this matter. So I want to just point that out in case that was not clear in my responses.
Um excuse me everyone what lightsabermario is saying is certainly gross but GUESS WHAT THERE ARE GIRLS WITH PENISES
tossing the word “cis” into comments on men doesn’t absolve you of being complicit in the erasure and shaming of trans women here, and it doesn’t stop the conversation from being revolting and dysphoric to a penis-having girl like myself.
uhh well not always true, sexuality and romanticism are two different things and seeing other genitalia usually is a big part of sex. So while your sexuality isn’t entirely co-dependent on genitalia i’d say a big chunk of it is. Now i don’t doubt that Becky is a lesbian of course but just wanted to get that out there.
Anyway, I know plenty of lesbians who quite enjoy penises (or rather penis shaped objects) but aren’t the least bit interested in men sexually or romantically. (This isn’t even getting into the other orientation options, such as bisexuality or pansexuality.)
To be fair, this is pretty much how I came to the conclusion I DON’T like girls? But then, you know, maybe I could be if I wanted. Gay seems to work for me so far, though
Willis would never write a character under the tragically wrong misconceptions about human sexuality that you seem to be laboring under. If a lesbian wants dick, she doesn’t go out to find a guy, she asks her girlfriend to strap one on. (Or just buys a dildo for herself.) Other information you may be unaware of: bisexuality exists.
I think that might have been what he was getting at. That Becky could be bi instead of being gay, and on its own merits, a character coming to a second realization about their sexuality isn’t exactly unrealistic. I was convinced I was gay before I realized I was bi, as an example, though that was mostly due to my own personal bi-erasure.
It’s a moot point anyway. Even disregarding the awful word choices in his post, Becky’s gay. I can’t see it ever happening.
In your opinion, how likely is “You can’t like boys [i]and[/i] girls. Is there even a [i]word[/i] for that?” to have been something you might have said in the past?
Basically it was a lot of casual homophobia. “No I can’t like guys, because I’m normal. I’m not gay, not there’s anything wrong with that.” That kind of thought process. Plus there was this really screwed up shaming period where I was all “the only reason you think you’re gay is because you want to be A Thing. You’re straight and normal and Not A Thing.”
When it started to clue in that I liked guys a lot more than a heterosexual dude would, then I decided that I had to be gay, but eventually I just kind of passively accepted that I liked both and liking both was perfectly valid. I never really had an active soul searching period where I had to figure things out, I just decided to stop berating myself and said, hey; I like both.
Sadly there was a distinct lack of glorious man chest in that time. That might have sped things up.
While I understand your viewpoint, people can definitely go through a “phase”. For example, I personally have had sex with both females and males. I thought my awkwardness around the opposite sex stemmed from at least some amount of deep-seated homosexuality. Therefore, I fucked a dude. It didn’t do anything for me, so I dated a different dude. Eventually I came to the conclusion that I am fairly close to 100 percent straight and my awkwardness is merely me being a weird person. That several-month-long series of sexual/romantic interactions is best described as a homosexual “phase”. It is certainly not common, but a “phase” is definitely possible due to similar misguided sexuality or variable sexuality.
“Questioning” might be a better term for it. “I fucked a dude. It didn’t do anything for me” doesn’t sound like “Yeah, I really was into guys for a while, but now, meh,” which would be what a “phase” would look like.
We all went through a phase as kids of being really into [insert whichever pop culture kid’s show is relevant] that we grew out of (for my kids it was things like Bob the Builder and Go, Diego, Go, which they used to be super into but later grew out of). It doesn’t sound like that’s what happened to you here though, so I don’t think “phase” is the right term, unless you phrase it as, say, a phase of exploring your sexuality. “Questioning” would still be the better term, though; less dismissive. 🙂
Something something “fluidity of human sexuality”, something something “not attracted to vaginas, attracted to women”, something something if Becky sees a dong in a textbook and likes what she sees I do not care, something something Willis has creative license to do whatever the heck he pleases and I’m sure it will result in an enjoyable comic strip either way.
I get the whole “don’t say he/she’s just waiting for the right woman/man” mentality. It’s one that allows people peace with the way they feel rather than telling them they must feel a different way somehow.
But seriously, don’t dogpile on Lightsabermario. What he typed isn’t dismissal– it’s an honest question, honest speculation, and smackin’ him in the face isn’t going to be likely to get through to him. Penises and vaginas are weird, folks.
Umm, Lin? – I’ve been present when exactly that occurred. And I’ve had it asked of me a couple of times as well. One of the times there was no fault to be forgiven – he was honestly that much of an optimist (and a cellist even! But it turns out that’s not enough). The others were just awful stereotyping.
Well obviously there’s anecdotal evidence of occasions where a heterosexual person is called to “prove” their orientation, but it happens at a tremendously higher rate for non-hetero people. There’s always the need for “proof” that someone is gay/bi/ace/demi.
Yes. Always. And then they don’t believe you when you present the proof. It gets tiring. Yes, I’m sure I don’t experience sexual attraction. Yes, I’ve seen most every genitalia configuration and legal sex act possible. No it didn’t do it for me. No, your pant python is not going to change my mind. Yes, I’m sure. Now go away.
Yeah, it’s a dick move. I wouldn’t appreciate it if someone was constantly jammin’ someone of my sex in my own face every five minutes, going “But have you trieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed it?”
But I do work in hentai, so everyone’s pretty respectful of sexuality in my field.
Otherwise known as every queer woman’s experience on every dating site ever. Sure you saaaaaid you were gay/ace/not interested in cis dudes, but you haven’t tried new and improved MyPenis TM yet. Clearly this will magically cure you of your lesbianity, so I’m going to hit on you relentlessly even after you’ve told me to fuck off.
^ That has pretty much nothing to do with being queer. From what I understand, there’s a LOT of those types of guys on dating sites, and every attractive female is targeted with such unwanted attention – gay, straight or otherwise.
I get why you’d feel singled-out, but it probably has little to nothing to do with your orientation and everything to do with them being uncouth horndogs that can’t accept a simple ‘no’ (or a even more glaring ‘fuck
off’).
Also note not every cis-guy is like that.
Oh, speaking of which – you seem to have this habit of only using cis as a pejorative, and it makes your statements seem discriminatory. Because you never seem to use it in a positive way, it sound like you HATE anyone that’s cis… I’m not sure you’re aware of that, but it’s how you come off.
Think of how it would look if someone would only use the term ‘black’ in regards to negative traits or acts – eventually, they’d be labeled as a racist, even if they’re not necessarily such. Perhaps something to consider.
I think ‘that’s not how this works’ has been pretty thoroughly covered.
I’m anticipating that Becky’s first glimpse will/did go like it does for most that don’t have ’em. Going ew! and then giggling and looking then quickly looking away and then looking again in a renewed fit of giggles for longer than seems reasonable or possible.
I really don’t understand why some people have something against the gay ones(not only because of religious motives,but also of stupid things). Just like the straight,they are people as well and should be respected no matter what.
A: Why are they so many people saying “Becky must be wrong! That would be the greatest plot twist ever!” Especially when they frame this in a way that would be really stupid from a narrative perspective too. (Not to mention the social message implications of how they phrase how these twists should happen).
B: I realized I was gay well before I ever saw a vagina. Why are we doubting that Becky is gay just because she may not have seen a dick before? (I mean, I’ve only heard very few people who say what they find most attractive about the people they are attracted to is their genitalia. I mean disembodied sex parts just sounds disturbing)
C: I mean, Becky realizing that she’s not into just girls could happen. (I mean she even admits now that maybe some people are into both. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/item/ ) There’s even another character in this comic who thought they were just into women, but then realized that guys are pretty hot too. But she doesn’t seem to think that’s the case, and I have no idea why we would assume she’s lying.
Because the idea that lesbians don’t exist and every lesbian will be bi for you and you alone is a popular porn myth that ends up snaking its way through hetero society in really dehumanizing and infuriating ways. Every lesbian I have known has had their sexuality questioned aggressively by some asshole cis dude who thinks lesbian equals threesome. Hell, the last Dyke March I went to was infested with cis straight dudes creepily perving on every lesbian they saw and trying to angle for threesomes, because apparently one look at some backwards hat wearing brotastrophe’s genitals will drive any woman mad with lust.
It’s all related to viewing lesbian identity as “hard mode” rather than a legitimate identity. So a lesbian is just a prize that proves how virile and manly you are rather than a sexual orientation that usually comes free with a lot of societal garbage.
It’s honestly quite infuriating and downright dangerous as a lot of men see rejection by a lesbian as an attack on their masculinity, which can lead to violence, sexual assault, and corrective rape.
> It’s all related to viewing lesbian identity as “hard mode” rather than a legitimate identity.
Why does everything have to relate to how straight men see someone?
The fact that people – with almost all the accumulated wisdom and life experience of a 19-year-old – don’t always instantly know everything, even about themselves, on the first try, shouldn’t even really be controversial.
But in this one case it’s apparently more important what it means for one demographic that Becky is with absolute certainty not a part of (i.e. straight cis men), than what it means for her. Which I don’t think is really a defensible characterization of what lightsabermario actually said.
Clearly she was ace until she researched dongs so as to defer suspicion as the Whiteboard Ding-dong Bandit! It’s biotruth!(/thatmademefeelsogrossyouhavenoidea)
True fact: The episode in which Vgeta said that memorable phrase,he actually said over 8000 when it was dubbed.But they cahnged it later to 9000,because it sounded better.And thus a famous phrase was created,heh,even Oprah was tricked into saying it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7liYfhRgXGk
I’m sure this is after the dinosaur-hand-holding, inkblot. Now, they’ve clearly moved on to ‘reading forbidden science textbooks in bed together’ – you know, fifteenth base.
I find moderation is typically very fast around update time. I assume Willis is usually on and actively keeping an eye on the comments section when his comic updates.
Over time allot of changes can occur especially when we start with selected breeding, pretty much every domesticated plant and animal has changed from its original form. However how many of those changes over tgousands of years are things that occurred over a long period of time, as opposed to the compounding of various short period changes due to selective breeding.
The last 2 centuries have really seen some major changes since Mendel did his work with peas, and while the change over time is huge, loking at what we can do in short order is even more striking. Did you know farm turkeys have been bread to have such large chests that they can no longer mate, and have to be artificially inseminated.
There was also a fox domestication program in the soviet union, that IIRC showed physical and behavioral changes in like 2-3 generations of selected breading.
I was thrilled to find “seedless” watermelons slices at the store last week that had actual seeds in them. They also were a proper deep red. I got some; sure enough, they actually tasted like proper watermelons!
After so many years of telling the kids that real watermelons have more flavour, I was so happy to be able to actually show them to them.
Well owl about that, some birder I am … I guess I was fooled by the posture, since I’ve only seen them standing upright … I’ve never actually heard one hiss even when I saw a clueless twit walk right up to one and stuff her phone into its face — could have been amusing if it had 🙂
Seriously, where did she get those clothes. It can’t be a coincidence that she looks like Ted. Give me a sign, Willis! Tell me it was intentional! Make her do an air guitar or something!
I was listening to the local classic rock station on the way over to the grocery store recently (because I’d left my MP3 player plugged in to charge), and they were playing Pearl Jam. When did Pearl Jam become classic rock?
I’ve wondered that myself. If you go strictly by age, then all disco is classic rock, as is most grunge and some of the early rap. Fortunately, the station I listen to seems to draw their line around 1982 or so.
When I was in High School, KFRC was a top 40 station. When I moved back to the Bay Area in the naughties, it was a golden oldies station. And they were playing the same songs.
/sob
It means sometime between 2000 and 2009, because there’re zeroes where there were previously other numbers. And “naught” is another word for nothing, or zero. So now we have the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the naughties, and the whatthefuckarewegonnacallthis.
Lately I’ve been picking up strange vibrations
I hear my music now on oldies stations
Put out a CD called ‘The best of what I was’
My picture’s on the cover and no one knows
I did until my preferred station was taken down. And to add insult to injury, replaced with a pop station that was barely distinguishable from the other three that we already had.
When I was a kid they played Perry Como from the Fifties (that was in the Seventies); now they play Lady Gaga from three years ago and make me feel really old.
I’ll never get tired of the reactions to a glib response, especially the ones that make assumptions about the kind of person one is dealing with. Cheers.
Yes. Well I guess we must plant these kernels and hope they begin to sprout puns and take root. With some judicious cross-pollination this could lead to a better crop next season!
Same, except mine was more than five years ago, because it came up as part of one of my anthropology courses over a decade ago. ^^; Weird how talking about indigenous peoples also talks about the plants and animals they encountered. :p
I’d say it’s a combination of that and the fact that it’s 9000 years old. That’s 3000 years more than what she’s been told all her life about the Earth’s age.
^ This. I drag up pictures of corn evolution every time someone gets started on how modifying plants is “new” and “dangerous,” and half of them don’t want to believe they’re remotely related. Such is how lack of education can bind ideas in a person’s head. -__-;
This. Becky’s been taught her whole life that all of Earth is only 6000 years old and that dramatic changes within species don’t actually occur. So yeah a glimpse of whoa, corn changed how much in only 9000 years and wait 9000 years is basically all her fundie anti-evolution training exploding into closet splinters.
“Oh me, what did I do last night? Hey, what the! I created HUMANS?! I’m never gonna hear the end of this. That’s the last time I go out drinking with Nyarlathotep.”
Yeah, that was the calculation of Bishop James Ussher, October 22, 4004 BC. Note that this date was based on the protepic Julian calendar, not the Gregorian calendar.
IIRC (wasn’t there, I have to depend on what I read in an article from several years ago) corn was just starting to develop a cob but hadn’t turned yellow yet in 1000BCE.
I once was interested in a girl who I had a lot in common—but she was a HUGE fans of Velikovsky’s nuttiness. So, being interested, and thinking there must be SOMETHING in it, I read all of Velikovsky’s books—thinking I must have misunderstood something in the first book, and there has to be SOMETHING rational in it.
Nope. Nada. Zilch. Good thing I’m a fast reader.
I decided not to get involved with her, no matter HOW cute she was. I’ll do a lot of things to indulge my libido, but knowing she was a Velikovsky-buff brought up a huge question mark about ANYTHING else she said or believed.
Pretty sure most of it was painted on the walls of the basilica. But the common social norm and stigma against the revealing of ankles in actual people was more fun for me to poke at.
Nope! Not even close. You’re thinking of Classical, Renaissance and a smattering of Neoclassical art.
Victorian erotica looks more like what you’d find on 4chan, only black and white and with more drapery (not on the people, on the beds and walls and such).
Trust me, the image of three guys without pants on (curiously wearing the rest of their clothes, including socks and shoes) watching a woman piss into a bowl from the edge of a bed is something that never really goes away, despite brain bleach and unfortunately far worse things on the Internet. :/
So Becky is discovering the Wonderful World of Secular Biology. I suppose it would be quite a shock after years of religious homeschooling. She may need some support to adjust to this. Dina will need to hold her hand through these discoveries.
How about the banana? I’d be entirely unsurprised if she’s been exposed to Ray Comfort’s “atheist’s nightmare” routine, which conveniently ignored that modern bananas look the way they do because of human breeding.
Eh I just meant she’d probably freak out over how potatoes used to look. I’ve seen pictures of ancient potato varieties and they look like diseased chunks of human flesh or something.
I don’t want to know, do I? Well, fine, I do want to know, I just don’t want to have to look it up… Explain it to me so I don’t have to scar my fragile little mind too much!
tl;dr version is that we know life is perfectly designed for humans by a loving god because look how convenient it is to eat domesticated bananas. (Wild bananas are totally different and not particularly convenient)
On the subject of bananas, try googling ‘Gros Michel banana’ and prepare to have your mind blown. I had no idea that our grandparents ate an entirely different kind of banana to us.
You can still get them if you happen to be in the area they’re grown – there aren’t many left, but they aren’t totally extinct. I’ve heard it suggested that the Gros Michel is the basis for “banana” flavoring, much like Concord grapes are the inspiration for “grape” flavoring, which explains why neither of them tastes much like the fruits you get at the store. (Have tasted Concord grapes, can confirm, they taste – blech! – like grape candy.)
Yeah, it’s amazing how Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron managed to zero in on probably the worst possible example of “God’s creation”, since the modern banana is clearly established to be a product of man’s effort (not to mention how hilarious it was to see Ray talking about how easy it was to put in his mouth).
Furthermore, if that’s evidence of God’s love for us, then what the hell does a pineapple say about God’s feelings towards us?
Ah the effectiveness of emphasis on a different word. (My favorite is “I never said she stole my money.” Place the emphasis on a different word each time… and they’re all distinctly different meanings.)
comment section I am disappointed that only one person has pointed out why she’s freaking out in that last panel. though Morty uses the 4004 year old earth dialogue, another more common thing you hear from Christians is the 6000 year dialogue, as they say that the bible gives all sorts of important facts that show the earth was created 6000 years ago. which of course makes for a fun game where you can point out civilizations that are 10,000 years old and have them explain that. ~<3
Yup, it’s really shitty when you are interested in Biology, but your whole school district is infested with YECs. I’m just glad the internet was around so that I could self-teach. And yeah, the Biology education so many receive in America is so bad because of that bloody batch of fantastical nonsense.
Seriously, Becky, you’re going to be seeing a lot more zeros at the end of figures if you’re going to read into this. If 9,000 shocks you, you might want to stop there!
Speaking as someone who believes in intelligent design but not the ‘Young Earth’ form, I have to say that I genuinely find YEC a bit embarrassing, especially as it is based on a narrow interpretation of the English translation of the Hebrew and Aramaic original.
That said, whilst I understand DWM found his own investigations into this matter revelatory, I do hope that he doesn’t spend too long harping on about this; it would get boring and repetitive very quickly.
Boring is in the eye of the beholder and is the ultimate subjective criteria. What you may find interesting, I might not and what you may find boring, I may find interesting. Such is the way of the human mind.
True. But that doesn’t mean uninteresting things can’t be made interesting. For instance, I am generally bored to tears by sports. But Invictus still managed to make me care about rubgy for a couple of hours.
Secondly, I trust that Willis will present these ideas in a manner that stays interesting and relevant to the plot. It’s not like this comic’s gonna turn into a history lesson.
My dad prefers a date of ten thousand years, which is the number I grew up with. So even among the young earth creationists, there’s such a thing as too young.
Though I’m fairly agnostic specifically about the nature of the creation, I recall once offering the “last thursday while your back was turned” hypothesis. Absolute Omniscience, Omnipresence, and Omnipotence over the whole of creation means you don’t actually need, nor would you expect, a specific start date. You might as well pick whichever one you like.
That’s not technically what I mean. That’s intended to parody young earth creationism and the notion that there’s a huge celestial scam going on to hide the “truth”. And I’m cool with that, but it’s still founded on the notion that the creation has a start date. The only reason we assume that is because we’re bound by a linear perception of time. Things have a beginning, an end, a natural flow of things because we’re born, grow up, and mark the passage of time through abstracts and cues around us. But that’s all a part of the same creation. But if we’re to accept a truly omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient creator of everything, then the next logical step is to assume that that creator isn’t bound by our perception of time. There’s no beginning of time, no end of time, no time before time, because time itself is part of the same creation, and what we perceive as past, present, and future don’t in and of themselves have a unique meaning to an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent entity. They’re all just variables in a massive unknowable celestial equation. They exist because they exist. It’s our attempt to puzzle them out from somewhere at the bottom of the celestial chalkboard that makes us think they mean something.
Shorter version: we would all be better off thinking of an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent creator of all that is, was, will be, and can’t be as less a Majestically bearded white guy and more Azathoth.
Today, Becky is finding out there’s no impenetrable line between “history” and what is happening in the world around us. Things really happened, and continue to happen as a result of what happened, in an ongoing process that even involves you personally.
This I think is the most insidious effect of learning your history from just one source. The particular lies and insanities that source may teach doesn’t even matter, but that one, limited narrative will make you see a space between where that story ends and where the world you inhabit begins, and you can’t help but think that means you’re a different kind of being than those who lived back then.
And then how can you work to avoid repeating their mistakes? If you see how the corn we have now grew out of that which grew in the beginning of the agricultural era, I think you’ve got a better chance.
you know, written history goes back about 10,000 years. I really don’t get how some creationists can seriously claim a 6000 year old earth when we literally have deeds to property that was sold millennia before that. Also, the scientist who figured out the true age of the earth also realized that lead was a deadly poison that industry was just throwing all over the place willy-nilly at the time. So the fact that she didn’t grow up with brain damage is directly related to a scientist figuring out the thing that her home schooled textbooks denied.
The bible is the only truth, and all the evidence that the world is older then the bible claims are really just the devil trying to deceive us….
Though IIRC even the bible’s text allows for more then 6000 years.
You really like that article don’t you?
I can not get past the tree, partly due to what I learned about how they work from a couple undergrad courses involving Computational Biology….
Well, the actually is the objective minded are the majority but, it was not until the last two census they were brave enough to publicly say so.
You can still find places here where you’ll meet a concentration of people that haven’t thought it through.
In those places, you will get a ‘Merry Obeymas,’ whether you like it or not.
*cough Texas cough-cough*
Aw yeah. I remember getting my “computer privileges” (access to a TRS-80 model I) suspended when I asked “but what about the dinosaurs?” at my Lutheran high school. FUN times.
Not wanting to disrupt the thread about people not taking “not my preference” for an answer, but wanting to interject something else: If you think being gay/lesbian is a choice because YOU made the choice to be straight, you are not straight. You’re bi to some degree and decided not to act upon that. Not that there is anything wrong with that, you just can’t say you’re straight.
Loading ...
The entire comments section today:
OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!
Secular biology also includes lotsa dongs.
Unfortunately, that won’t do much to get Becky’s attention.
I know. That’s why I’m mentioning it– I anticipate those sections in the textbook will be skipped.
Just had an interesting thought: considering how sheltered she’d been brought up, who knows if Becky’s even seen a picture of a penis before. And already she has come to the conclusion that she’s a lesbian. What if she sees a picture of an erect penis, and she finds that does it for her? What if it turns out that Becky actually isn’t a lesbian at all, or at least is homoromantic but not homosexual?
Obviously Willis would never write it this way, considering his strong liberal attitude. I extremely doubt that Willis would ever write a character who claims to be gay but actually is going through “a phase” because such a plot twist would send the totally wrong message of that being applicable to other, confirmed gays and lesbians. Understandably, that “phase” word is so hurtful to the LGBT community that many convince everyone that it’s not simply a phase for anyone, ultimately repaying ignorance with ignorance.
I only bring it up because I find that direction to be a very promising twist, storytelling-wise, and would lead to a lot of character development and conflict.
Uh that’s not actually how sexuality works. Becky may not have seen penises but she’s seen enough men to know that she’s not attracted to them. Sexuality is more of a whole package deal- face, body and personality not just genitalia.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess you’re straight and male. Did you realize you liked girls only after seeing a vagina?
^For real! Lightsabermario is pretty much saying “sure, she’s a lesbian, until the right dick comes along.”
Yup. It’s genuinely disgusting. And I’m sorry to speak brusquely there, but there is something deeply offputting viscerally with some cis dude sunglass avatar perving on how much “better” the story would be if the homeless lesbian saw the D and fell in love. It’s dismissive of orientation, is part and parcel of a long social tradition of assuming that all lesbians are liars about their life experiences and desires (which is why corrective rape is not only a thing, but a not uncommon thing), is reductionist of queer women, and just kinda gross. Like creepy straight man leering at the back of the Dyke Bar gross. It’s like cis straight male sexuality already dominates so much of society, does it really need to force itself on the tiny amount of queer girl representation we get?
And sorry for the brusque and visceral response on this one. I’m just kinda literally grossed out with this.
I’m replying to this since I can’t reply directly to Cerberus. I think that What was meant was that it’d be cool if she didn’t know much but found out that sexual orientation didn’t have to match romantic and was actually homoromantic and heterosexual. It might be nice if there was a character who represented different sexual orientation than romantic orientation. There are a few problems with becky being homoromantic and heterosexual. She has shown enough signs of being sexually attracted to females that I would think heterosexuality would seem out of the blue. As for the point about queer girl representation. People with differing romantic and sexual interests get even less representation. I am not saying sunglasses is correct but People are too quick to jump at perceived offences. Please don’t jump at people while assuming the worst.
Lyaatd-
Not really, what was meant was that no one can really know they are gay until they get a good meaty eyeful of dick, which bothers me. And not in a oh noes, my lieberal bubble is melting bothers, but literally retching over the sink a little because that attitude if you are a queer person is downright oppressive. The vast majority of queer women’s events in the last year I have gone to have been invaded by gross cis straight dudes thinking their dick will make all the queer ladies straight. I’ve been through no end of gross cis dudes “jokingly” suggesting that every lesbian is bi at heart. And someone feeling that me being snuggly with my girlfriend was a personal come on to him very nearly got me murdered on a public street.
When I say this is gross. I mean, not only is it appalling and cliched, but also massively triggering*. In a really bad, day-destroying way (PTSD is fun, I recommend it for everyone, super awesome).
*And a pre-emptive Carla-style robotic third middle-finger for anyone who instinctively rolled their eyes there.
And it’s even worse when this “dick will cure her” type statements are made about someone who is literally homeless and in very near and present danger because her dad thinks she can be “cured”. Who is in VERY real danger of being sent to a place that will in fact try to “cure her with dick”. That is so many levels of not cool, I’m not entirely sure it can be bound by infinity.
So no, I do not believe we are failing to appreciate his “intention”.
But as far as your statement, yeah, it would be nice to have a character of mixed orientations between romantic and sexual. This is not the character to do it with. Doing it with this character and with this plotline would be really fucked.
Honestly, if Willis did go that plotline, I expect it to be with someone presumed to be straight in the other universe and them turning out to be homoromantic but heterosexual or something.
you know… i actually dislike the way you use cis. i know that you say it because you seem to think it means everyone who is straight… cis is short for cisgendered, which means a person who identifies with the gender they were born as… nowhere, not even on urban dictionary, does it define a person who is straight. i dont like being called cis when speaking to my sexuality. i am straight, not that i wouldnt be perfectly happy in a homosexual relationship if the right person came along, but as it stands ive found the person im going to spend the rest of my life with, as long as she’ll have me, and the relationship happens to be straight. im not bi, im not straight. frankly im not really even that attracted to women. i guess my closest thing is some kind of romantic sexuality… regardless, you’re using the word wrong, and id like you to stop.
FURTHERMORE, willis will do whatever willis damn well pleases with his characters… if you’ve read the universe this far i should hope you understand that. your personal experience does not apply to a world in which the only thing that matters is the whim of a single man, no matter how liberal or conservative.
JustcallmeSoul-
Indeed. Cis means cisgender and that is my intended usage as I feel it is important and critical distinction to make when talking about a particular type of negative behavior I regularly encounter. Gross entitled intrusion of the type that views lesbians as “prizes” that prove “virility” is not a behavior I have typically encountered from trans straight men. It is a behavior I have encountered regularly from those who are cis and identify their sexual orientation as straight. And that intrusion is a daily lived experience for out queer women that can get a bit hard to take after awhile even when they aren’t all fucked up like I am.
I apologize if I made it seem like I intended to use cis as a replacement for straight as that is not at all my intention and I apologize for any distress or confusion caused by this lack of clarity on this part.
As far as Willis doing what he pleases, I am very much in agreement. It’s his universe. I like what he’s doing with it. It wouldn’t matter if I didn’t. My approval matters not one squat to the stories he wants to tell. As it is, I rather like the stories he tells. They are very powerful and healing for me on multiple levels and has given me representations I was not expecting to encounter in fiction (trans aces for instance). But yeah, if that wasn’t the case, it wouldn’t matter a toss.
Which is aptly demonstrated by the giant mock fest Willis has been making on tumblr and his twitter about the gross statements by mario and the overall thrust of homophobic “idea men” who’ve been pitching “better twists” to him for the last few strips now.
And I apologize as well for whatever in my statement gave you the idea that I thought otherwise with regards to that.
JustCallMeSoul-
I also want to make very clear that what I find gross and inappropriate is mario’s “suggestions” for the “improvement” of the comic owing to what they imply for actual real people in the real world owing to the type of story being told rather than anything in the comic or the actions of Willis.
I understand that this particular set of “suggestions” on the part of Mario has me considerably more raw than usual with regards to these types of “we swear we’re not homophobic, we’re just making a ‘writing’ suggestion” commenters, which is probably negatively impacting my clarity on this matter. So I want to just point that out in case that was not clear in my responses.
Um excuse me everyone what lightsabermario is saying is certainly gross but GUESS WHAT THERE ARE GIRLS WITH PENISES
tossing the word “cis” into comments on men doesn’t absolve you of being complicit in the erasure and shaming of trans women here, and it doesn’t stop the conversation from being revolting and dysphoric to a penis-having girl like myself.
uhh well not always true, sexuality and romanticism are two different things and seeing other genitalia usually is a big part of sex. So while your sexuality isn’t entirely co-dependent on genitalia i’d say a big chunk of it is. Now i don’t doubt that Becky is a lesbian of course but just wanted to get that out there.
Anyway, I know plenty of lesbians who quite enjoy penises (or rather penis shaped objects) but aren’t the least bit interested in men sexually or romantically. (This isn’t even getting into the other orientation options, such as bisexuality or pansexuality.)
To be fair, this is pretty much how I came to the conclusion I DON’T like girls? But then, you know, maybe I could be if I wanted. Gay seems to work for me so far, though
Willis would never write a character under the tragically wrong misconceptions about human sexuality that you seem to be laboring under. If a lesbian wants dick, she doesn’t go out to find a guy, she asks her girlfriend to strap one on. (Or just buys a dildo for herself.) Other information you may be unaware of: bisexuality exists.
I think that might have been what he was getting at. That Becky could be bi instead of being gay, and on its own merits, a character coming to a second realization about their sexuality isn’t exactly unrealistic. I was convinced I was gay before I realized I was bi, as an example, though that was mostly due to my own personal bi-erasure.
It’s a moot point anyway. Even disregarding the awful word choices in his post, Becky’s gay. I can’t see it ever happening.
“…own personal bi-erasure.”
In your opinion, how likely is “You can’t like boys [i]and[/i] girls. Is there even a [i]word[/i] for that?” to have been something you might have said in the past?
Basically it was a lot of casual homophobia. “No I can’t like guys, because I’m normal. I’m not gay, not there’s anything wrong with that.” That kind of thought process. Plus there was this really screwed up shaming period where I was all “the only reason you think you’re gay is because you want to be A Thing. You’re straight and normal and Not A Thing.”
When it started to clue in that I liked guys a lot more than a heterosexual dude would, then I decided that I had to be gay, but eventually I just kind of passively accepted that I liked both and liking both was perfectly valid. I never really had an active soul searching period where I had to figure things out, I just decided to stop berating myself and said, hey; I like both.
Sadly there was a distinct lack of glorious man chest in that time. That might have sped things up.
While I understand your viewpoint, people can definitely go through a “phase”. For example, I personally have had sex with both females and males. I thought my awkwardness around the opposite sex stemmed from at least some amount of deep-seated homosexuality. Therefore, I fucked a dude. It didn’t do anything for me, so I dated a different dude. Eventually I came to the conclusion that I am fairly close to 100 percent straight and my awkwardness is merely me being a weird person. That several-month-long series of sexual/romantic interactions is best described as a homosexual “phase”. It is certainly not common, but a “phase” is definitely possible due to similar misguided sexuality or variable sexuality.
“Questioning” might be a better term for it. “I fucked a dude. It didn’t do anything for me” doesn’t sound like “Yeah, I really was into guys for a while, but now, meh,” which would be what a “phase” would look like.
We all went through a phase as kids of being really into [insert whichever pop culture kid’s show is relevant] that we grew out of (for my kids it was things like Bob the Builder and Go, Diego, Go, which they used to be super into but later grew out of). It doesn’t sound like that’s what happened to you here though, so I don’t think “phase” is the right term, unless you phrase it as, say, a phase of exploring your sexuality. “Questioning” would still be the better term, though; less dismissive. 🙂
Something something “fluidity of human sexuality”, something something “not attracted to vaginas, attracted to women”, something something if Becky sees a dong in a textbook and likes what she sees I do not care, something something Willis has creative license to do whatever the heck he pleases and I’m sure it will result in an enjoyable comic strip either way.
I get the whole “don’t say he/she’s just waiting for the right woman/man” mentality. It’s one that allows people peace with the way they feel rather than telling them they must feel a different way somehow.
But seriously, don’t dogpile on Lightsabermario. What he typed isn’t dismissal– it’s an honest question, honest speculation, and smackin’ him in the face isn’t going to be likely to get through to him. Penises and vaginas are weird, folks.
@Kryss doesn’t “questioning” imply a degree of in-the-moment uncertainty that excludes cases where someone is certain but mistaken?
…there is no word.
Nobody ever asks straight people “But have you TRIED IT? Are you sure that you don’t like X?”
Also: women can have penises.
Umm, Lin? – I’ve been present when exactly that occurred. And I’ve had it asked of me a couple of times as well. One of the times there was no fault to be forgiven – he was honestly that much of an optimist (and a cellist even! But it turns out that’s not enough). The others were just awful stereotyping.
Well obviously there’s anecdotal evidence of occasions where a heterosexual person is called to “prove” their orientation, but it happens at a tremendously higher rate for non-hetero people. There’s always the need for “proof” that someone is gay/bi/ace/demi.
Spencer-
Yes. Always. And then they don’t believe you when you present the proof. It gets tiring. Yes, I’m sure I don’t experience sexual attraction. Yes, I’ve seen most every genitalia configuration and legal sex act possible. No it didn’t do it for me. No, your pant python is not going to change my mind. Yes, I’m sure. Now go away.
Yeah, it’s a dick move. I wouldn’t appreciate it if someone was constantly jammin’ someone of my sex in my own face every five minutes, going “But have you trieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed it?”
But I do work in hentai, so everyone’s pretty respectful of sexuality in my field.
Otherwise known as every queer woman’s experience on every dating site ever. Sure you saaaaaid you were gay/ace/not interested in cis dudes, but you haven’t tried new and improved MyPenis TM yet. Clearly this will magically cure you of your lesbianity, so I’m going to hit on you relentlessly even after you’ve told me to fuck off.
^ That has pretty much nothing to do with being queer. From what I understand, there’s a LOT of those types of guys on dating sites, and every attractive female is targeted with such unwanted attention – gay, straight or otherwise.
I get why you’d feel singled-out, but it probably has little to nothing to do with your orientation and everything to do with them being uncouth horndogs that can’t accept a simple ‘no’ (or a even more glaring ‘fuck
off’).
Also note not every cis-guy is like that.
Oh, speaking of which – you seem to have this habit of only using cis as a pejorative, and it makes your statements seem discriminatory. Because you never seem to use it in a positive way, it sound like you HATE anyone that’s cis… I’m not sure you’re aware of that, but it’s how you come off.
Think of how it would look if someone would only use the term ‘black’ in regards to negative traits or acts – eventually, they’d be labeled as a racist, even if they’re not necessarily such. Perhaps something to consider.
I think ‘that’s not how this works’ has been pretty thoroughly covered.
I’m anticipating that Becky’s first glimpse will/did go like it does for most that don’t have ’em. Going ew! and then giggling and looking then quickly looking away and then looking again in a renewed fit of giggles for longer than seems reasonable or possible.
I really don’t understand why some people have something against the gay ones(not only because of religious motives,but also of stupid things). Just like the straight,they are people as well and should be respected no matter what.
A: Why are they so many people saying “Becky must be wrong! That would be the greatest plot twist ever!” Especially when they frame this in a way that would be really stupid from a narrative perspective too. (Not to mention the social message implications of how they phrase how these twists should happen).
B: I realized I was gay well before I ever saw a vagina. Why are we doubting that Becky is gay just because she may not have seen a dick before? (I mean, I’ve only heard very few people who say what they find most attractive about the people they are attracted to is their genitalia. I mean disembodied sex parts just sounds disturbing)
C: I mean, Becky realizing that she’s not into just girls could happen. (I mean she even admits now that maybe some people are into both. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/item/ ) There’s even another character in this comic who thought they were just into women, but then realized that guys are pretty hot too. But she doesn’t seem to think that’s the case, and I have no idea why we would assume she’s lying.
Because the idea that lesbians don’t exist and every lesbian will be bi for you and you alone is a popular porn myth that ends up snaking its way through hetero society in really dehumanizing and infuriating ways. Every lesbian I have known has had their sexuality questioned aggressively by some asshole cis dude who thinks lesbian equals threesome. Hell, the last Dyke March I went to was infested with cis straight dudes creepily perving on every lesbian they saw and trying to angle for threesomes, because apparently one look at some backwards hat wearing brotastrophe’s genitals will drive any woman mad with lust.
It’s all related to viewing lesbian identity as “hard mode” rather than a legitimate identity. So a lesbian is just a prize that proves how virile and manly you are rather than a sexual orientation that usually comes free with a lot of societal garbage.
It’s honestly quite infuriating and downright dangerous as a lot of men see rejection by a lesbian as an attack on their masculinity, which can lead to violence, sexual assault, and corrective rape.
> It’s all related to viewing lesbian identity as “hard mode” rather than a legitimate identity.
Why does everything have to relate to how straight men see someone?
The fact that people – with almost all the accumulated wisdom and life experience of a 19-year-old – don’t always instantly know everything, even about themselves, on the first try, shouldn’t even really be controversial.
But in this one case it’s apparently more important what it means for one demographic that Becky is with absolute certainty not a part of (i.e. straight cis men), than what it means for her. Which I don’t think is really a defensible characterization of what lightsabermario actually said.
By your logic, did Joyce see an erect penis before college? And did you realize your own sexual orientation strictly from seeing aroused genitalia.
Clearly she was ace until she researched dongs so as to defer suspicion as the Whiteboard Ding-dong Bandit! It’s biotruth!(/thatmademefeelsogrossyouhavenoidea)
Penises are magic! Just an image of one can cure the gay!
What the fuck were you thinking when you wrote this? This is disgusting.
Oh that’s silly. Even if you don’t want to play with dongs, dongs are HILarious.
Art History has way more dongs than any medical textbook!
There are enough neolithic giblets to catch her attention too.
Yeah, based on her assessment of the campus:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/hectic/
I’m pretty sure her response to ancient art history will be more along the lines of Venus of Wilendorf is hot.
Oh.
…
Actually, it didn’t even cross my mind.
Probably because of the emphasises.
But technically it’s exactly 9000 ~_~
True fact: The episode in which Vgeta said that memorable phrase,he actually said over 8000 when it was dubbed.But they cahnged it later to 9000,because it sounded better.And thus a famous phrase was created,heh,even Oprah was tricked into saying it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7liYfhRgXGk
Exactly nine thousand? There’s no way that can be right.
Sure it can. Through the magic of rounding up or down @_@
No, approximate would be the correct term
You can round to the nearest thousand you know…Trust me, I’m a science engineer.
Yes, but if you’ve rounded, it’s not exact. That’s what approximate means.
What is a science engineer?
Someone who engineers science to make it mean what they want it to mean.
^ Basically a hack then? 😛
I suddenly realize that they are not holding hands. I feel betrayed.
You and me both.
I mean to be fair, they’re not looking at dinosaurs. (Well Dina mig might be, but Becky’s looking at corn.)
dinosaur corn, your argument is invalid.
I tried looking up dinosaur corn and all I found were corncob holders and corn chips.
Looking at the history of corn, it was developed 7000 years ago and its precursor was Teosinte which looked more like a herbaceous bush.
Their relationship reminds me of Ethan and Joyce. ‘Her hands, and their proximity to Dina never.’
…I still don’t understand this. They hold each other pretty often, considering they got together like, an hour ago?
I’m sure this is after the dinosaur-hand-holding, inkblot. Now, they’ve clearly moved on to ‘reading forbidden science textbooks in bed together’ – you know, fifteenth base.
And Willis didn’t show us!? Perhaps we’ve been onto something about a Slipshine of them holding hands…
You don’t just ask people to show their Willis.
YOU DON’T KNOW MY LIFE
What’s that in Base-4?
9 millennium is a long time, lets she how Becky reacts to looking at some Renaissance Paintings to see how fast these changes can take place. Or finding out what Tomatoes tasted like even 80 year ago.
Or even how Dogs have changed over the last century
Uh, I’m impressed you bypassed the moderation filter with so many links in your message 😮
I’m pretty sure if you post more than two then Willis has to give it the pass. He must’ve just gotten on that quickly.
Most than one, last I tried.
…maybe that changed since, maybe our great Author was lightning fast (or has helpers)
I find moderation is typically very fast around update time. I assume Willis is usually on and actively keeping an eye on the comments section when his comic updates.
But at least those examples didn’t happen over tens of thousands of years or more.
Much faster since artificials.
Over time allot of changes can occur especially when we start with selected breeding, pretty much every domesticated plant and animal has changed from its original form. However how many of those changes over tgousands of years are things that occurred over a long period of time, as opposed to the compounding of various short period changes due to selective breeding.
The last 2 centuries have really seen some major changes since Mendel did his work with peas, and while the change over time is huge, loking at what we can do in short order is even more striking. Did you know farm turkeys have been bread to have such large chests that they can no longer mate, and have to be artificially inseminated.
There was also a fox domestication program in the soviet union, that IIRC showed physical and behavioral changes in like 2-3 generations of selected breading.
The plural of ‘millenium’ is ‘millenia.’ And knowing is half the battle.
In Latin it is. As for using Latin plurals in English sentences, some people are for it and others against.
And the usual spelling is “millennium”…
Oops. Thanks for catching that.
I have always wondered, what is the other half?
Red and blue lasers.
Shouting “patriotic” Slogans/creeds/etc….
Fighting!
Random violence.
Knowledge is power.
The other half is violence.
I was thrilled to find “seedless” watermelons slices at the store last week that had actual seeds in them. They also were a proper deep red. I got some; sure enough, they actually tasted like proper watermelons!
After so many years of telling the kids that real watermelons have more flavour, I was so happy to be able to actually show them to them.
Yes, they loved them.
Seedless watermelons … blasphemy.
The seeds are half the fun of watermelons…
The watermelon changes? So. Cool.
The book of revelations
Better than the Book of Revelation because: facts.
It’s a revelation to *her*….
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_2K2hqyIfSs/hqdefault.jpg
Watch out little … um … plover … there is lovely kitty purrsuing you!
burrowing owl 😉
To defend against predators, burrowing owls will hide in their dens and mimic the hissing of rattlesnakes.
Well owl about that, some birder I am … I guess I was fooled by the posture, since I’ve only seen them standing upright … I’ve never actually heard one hiss even when I saw a clueless twit walk right up to one and stuff her phone into its face — could have been amusing if it had 🙂
[insert pen joke]
pen island
It shrinks by 40% during winter.
The pen is mightier than the sword.
Pen Island is a misnomer.
It’s really a peninsula.
So what if the pen isn’t outgoing? Insular pens have a right to their alone time, man, don’t be such a jerk!
You seem a bit pent up … maybe you should consider getting out more?
Gratuitous slam at Pennsylvania.
Becky needs to turn to the back if she wants to see the stuff about sex.
Becky needs to turn to her left (our right) if she wants to see the stuff about sex.
“Gentlemen…BEHOLD! More Corn!”
http://www.pbs.org/pov/hybrid/ <- The sexuality of maize, in all its PBS-approved glory.
“It’s not different at all! Is it Steve? BWAHAHAHAHAAA!”
Geee… I dunno… last time…. *gets skewerred by corn projectiles*
That remains my favourite part of athf. <3
I wanted to build a labyrinth out of corn, and somehow, I suck-seed-ed. It was a-maize-thing.
*Epic Rimshot!*
I’m sure there is a kernel of truth in your cobbled-together unbeleafably-corny anecdote, but it seems earily familiar …
I was sadly exposed to that scene in an AMV Hell… and I will never get the sight of Corn Rape out of my head lol
Seriously, where did she get those clothes. It can’t be a coincidence that she looks like Ted. Give me a sign, Willis! Tell me it was intentional! Make her do an air guitar or something!
Or Han Solo.
While walking down the hall she passes Robin in her slave Leia outfit, their eyes meet, and the inevitable happens.
Han Solo, huh…
Robin calls her a stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf herder?
“I wish to hold hands and discuss dinosaurs with you.”
“I know.”
You win all the Internets
A black waistcoat over a white short-sleeved tee is not a navy utility-vest over a cream long-sleeved tunic. She does not look like Han at all.
from Goodwill
KORN looked like what nine years ago?
Heheh, that’s only like two thousand and OH MY GOD I USED TO LISTEN TO KORN LIKE 20 YEARS AGO I AN SO FREAKING OLD.
Say that again when they’re on an oldies station.
Radio stations are like live podcasts you can listen to while in a car, even if you forgot to take your smartphone with you.
And they don’t use up your data allowance.
I was listening to the local classic rock station on the way over to the grocery store recently (because I’d left my MP3 player plugged in to charge), and they were playing Pearl Jam. When did Pearl Jam become classic rock?
I’ve wondered that myself. If you go strictly by age, then all disco is classic rock, as is most grunge and some of the early rap. Fortunately, the station I listen to seems to draw their line around 1982 or so.
“Just because it’s old doesn’t make it classic.”
When did Motley Crue become Classic Rock.
And when did Ozzie become an actor?
Somewhere circa 1985 if I remember well, long before Nirvana for sure… Ask Debbie 😉
When I was in High School, KFRC was a top 40 station. When I moved back to the Bay Area in the naughties, it was a golden oldies station. And they were playing the same songs.
/sob
That means you’re still alive: is that really something to cry about?
in the naughties ? 😀
^THIS
It means sometime between 2000 and 2009, because there’re zeroes where there were previously other numbers. And “naught” is another word for nothing, or zero. So now we have the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the naughties, and the whatthefuckarewegonnacallthis.
I made some effort back at the start of the millennium trying to help that catch on. Still sad that it didn’t.
Was that a programming decision, or was it just that they had no budget to buy newer music?
Lately I’ve been picking up strange vibrations
I hear my music now on oldies stations
Put out a CD called ‘The best of what I was’
My picture’s on the cover and no one knows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcu0j-Om37g
I still regularly listen to FM radio, thank you very much.
(And I’m not 30 yet, so it’s not cause I’m some super old… yet)
I did until my preferred station was taken down. And to add insult to injury, replaced with a pop station that was barely distinguishable from the other three that we already had.
I hate that. It’s happened to me twice.
That’s it? You’re so young.
I still regularly listen to FM radio, thank you very much.
Sounds like you have stations worth listening to. I can’t say the same where I am.
Or when they play it in the grocery store. 🙁
When I was a kid they played Perry Como from the Fifties (that was in the Seventies); now they play Lady Gaga from three years ago and make me feel really old.
You’re the Doctor. 20 years isn’t all that long to you.
Funny that you’d mention Korn, since Korn guitarist Brian Welch got born again in 2005.
Boy, I feel sorry for his mother.
How come?
Have you ever had a fully grown man crawl into your vagina and then given birth to him a second time? It’s not easy, I can tell you that.
And that’s just genetics! Just wait until you get to evolution. And just wait until you find out where brussel sprouts come from!
Hell, the answer is hell
Not the city in Belgium.
Someday that city will be known for more than Jean-Claude Van
VarenbergDamme.It’s known for it’s chou de Bruxelles, of course.
Augh, wrong its. I blame sleepiness.
It’s known for being the place comics come from o.o
Oh, meriken. It’s the EU capital.
Well, headquarters is probably a better term. It’s best known for the EU bureacracy rooting mostly there, at any rate.
The parliament’s in Strasbourg, tho.
I’ll never get tired of the reactions to a glib response, especially the ones that make assumptions about the kind of person one is dealing with. Cheers.
The differences between modern day corn and it’s ancestor are pretty interesting.
Becky would say the differences are ‘a-maize-balls’.
Oh, well done.
Behold, the tales of the great Barbara McClintock!
You are going to break Becky
Too much science at once can be dangerous. Quick, put on some Veggie Tales and have her breathe into a paper bag.
Wait until Joyce introduce Becky to her favourite animated serie !
(that or Walkerton. They’re kindred spirits after all)
Pretty sure they already had a discussion about Dexter and Monkey Master, implying Becky had already seen some of it.
Behold, CORN!
How aMAIZEing.
Willis has always been a cobber, huh?
This is the first pun that Popped in my ear.
That was corny.
And wheatty.
Culm on people, if we can’t field a better set of puns, I’m going to have to cornclude that the commenters here have gone to seed …
There may be a kernel of truth to that
Yes. Well I guess we must plant these kernels and hope they begin to sprout puns and take root. With some judicious cross-pollination this could lead to a better crop next season!
Looked it up and corn from 9k years ago is ADORABLE!
All in favor of turning this into a thread for tallying who went to look it up?
*raises hand*
I tried looking, didn’t find anything.
Someone on patreon did the work for us yesterday, here you go.
It looks more like an alien worm than a plant.
That is really cool. And now I want to eat some.
I didn’t have to, I already read the article about 5 years ago.
Same, except mine was more than five years ago, because it came up as part of one of my anthropology courses over a decade ago. ^^; Weird how talking about indigenous peoples also talks about the plants and animals they encountered. :p
Yeah I did. So corn was brittle and black, is that the surprising part?
I guess the surprising part (for Becky) is that plant and animal species evolve at all.
I’d say it’s a combination of that and the fact that it’s 9000 years old. That’s 3000 years more than what she’s been told all her life about the Earth’s age.
^ This. I drag up pictures of corn evolution every time someone gets started on how modifying plants is “new” and “dangerous,” and half of them don’t want to believe they’re remotely related. Such is how lack of education can bind ideas in a person’s head. -__-;
Yeah, that was the second surprise XD More than her brain can handle? Tune back into DoA tomorrow to find out!
This. Becky’s been taught her whole life that all of Earth is only 6000 years old and that dramatic changes within species don’t actually occur. So yeah a glimpse of whoa, corn changed how much in only 9000 years and wait 9000 years is basically all her fundie anti-evolution training exploding into closet splinters.
I remember reading about it in ‘Scientific American’ about thirty years ago. Teosinte!
The development of modern wheat is pretty interesting too.
I looked and found this:
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/15/6982053/selective-breeding-farming-evolution-corn-watermelon-peaches
The corn is so tiny I can barely see it.
Old but relevant Onion piece
Some day the Onion needs to write a textbook.
It’s okay, Becky; you already admitted that Dina’s convinced you the world is more than 6,000 years old.
You can handle the corn 🙂
Fun fact: some biblical scholars claim the earth was created 4004 years ago on October 23, at roughly 10 o’clock in the morning
God sleeps in, it seems.
Well, He had to get a cup of coffee first, and then check His emails.
It was a rough night…?
“Oh me, what did I do last night? Hey, what the! I created HUMANS?! I’m never gonna hear the end of this. That’s the last time I go out drinking with Nyarlathotep.”
4004 years ago? I thought the figure was 4004 BC.
Yeah, that was the calculation of Bishop James Ussher, October 22, 4004 BC. Note that this date was based on the protepic Julian calendar, not the Gregorian calendar.
Proleptic?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proleptic_Julian_calendar
40(0)4 years ago? Error does not compute.
There is no claim that the earth was created 4004 years ago, but there is a claim that it was created in 4004 BC, which was 6000 years ago.
Which must have left the people of Jericho somewhat irate.
… and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
It made the people of Sumeria quite irate. The Onion reported on it. http://www.theonion.com/article/sumerians-look-on-in-confusion-as-god-creates-worl-2879
Becky’s eyebrows…
Clear through her ginger coif.
I’m curious. What did corn look like three thousand years ago? Does anyone have any images?
Sorry. Nine. Why did I read that as three?
Top row of this picture teosinte, hybrid, corn.
Fingers crossed I got the HTML right.
Hey, thanks! I needed to know that, too.
IIRC (wasn’t there, I have to depend on what I read in an article from several years ago) corn was just starting to develop a cob but hadn’t turned yellow yet in 1000BCE.
I remember learning all about the history of corn at an anthropology seminar in high school. It was freaky.
I like how Becky’s brain works.
‘Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago.’ ‘OK, sure.’
‘Corn existed nine thousand years ago.’ ‘WHAAAAAT?’
I guess everything’s easier to accept when a cute girl is saying it.
I think the surprise might be what a short time it took to drastically transform an organism.
Eh, “million” is one of those words that’s too big to really encompass.
I once was interested in a girl who I had a lot in common—but she was a HUGE fans of Velikovsky’s nuttiness. So, being interested, and thinking there must be SOMETHING in it, I read all of Velikovsky’s books—thinking I must have misunderstood something in the first book, and there has to be SOMETHING rational in it.
Nope. Nada. Zilch. Good thing I’m a fast reader.
I decided not to get involved with her, no matter HOW cute she was. I’ll do a lot of things to indulge my libido, but knowing she was a Velikovsky-buff brought up a huge question mark about ANYTHING else she said or believed.
Never to old to learn. 9k corn, cool.
Pictured: Dina saving this one.
She does. She really does
Imagine how she would react to 9000 year old PORN.
We call that, art
Pre-historic art to be more precise.
Though allot of 120 yr old porn is probably considered Victorian art by now…
So much exposed ankle! Scandalous!
Have you ever seen and Victorian Erotica…..
Pretty sure most of it was painted on the walls of the basilica. But the common social norm and stigma against the revealing of ankles in actual people was more fun for me to poke at.
Nope! Not even close. You’re thinking of Classical, Renaissance and a smattering of Neoclassical art.
Victorian erotica looks more like what you’d find on 4chan, only black and white and with more drapery (not on the people, on the beds and walls and such).
Trust me, the image of three guys without pants on (curiously wearing the rest of their clothes, including socks and shoes) watching a woman piss into a bowl from the edge of a bed is something that never really goes away, despite brain bleach and unfortunately far worse things on the Internet. :/
I’ve got something far more scandalous than that!
Bifurcated Girls!
http://publicdomainreview.org/collections/bifurcated-girls-vanity-fair-special-issue-1903/
Allot of porn?
Isn’t that bestiality?
That kind of art is numerous in Greece.
All that body hair…
By giggling, like everyone else?
I can’t believe no one said it, so I have to.
Corn down for what.
*Bass drop*
Also, Dina blinding her with science.
I never get tired of this one:
“Good heavens, Miss Saruyama, you’re beautiful!“
So Becky is discovering the Wonderful World of Secular Biology. I suppose it would be quite a shock after years of religious homeschooling. She may need some support to adjust to this. Dina will need to hold her hand through these discoveries.
Only her hand?
Wait’ll she learns about potatoes…
How about the banana? I’d be entirely unsurprised if she’s been exposed to Ray Comfort’s “atheist’s nightmare” routine, which conveniently ignored that modern bananas look the way they do because of human breeding.
Eh I just meant she’d probably freak out over how potatoes used to look. I’ve seen pictures of ancient potato varieties and they look like diseased chunks of human flesh or something.
I don’t want to know, do I? Well, fine, I do want to know, I just don’t want to have to look it up… Explain it to me so I don’t have to scar my fragile little mind too much!
tl;dr version is that we know life is perfectly designed for humans by a loving god because look how convenient it is to eat domesticated bananas. (Wild bananas are totally different and not particularly convenient)
GIS ancient potatoes
Old corn makes for a neat toothbrush, it seems.
Next step, what those bananas that Kirk Cameron’s always going on about having been perfectly designed by God for man looked like after God got done with them but before we started force-evolving them.
On the subject of bananas, try googling ‘Gros Michel banana’ and prepare to have your mind blown. I had no idea that our grandparents ate an entirely different kind of banana to us.
You can still get them if you happen to be in the area they’re grown – there aren’t many left, but they aren’t totally extinct. I’ve heard it suggested that the Gros Michel is the basis for “banana” flavoring, much like Concord grapes are the inspiration for “grape” flavoring, which explains why neither of them tastes much like the fruits you get at the store. (Have tasted Concord grapes, can confirm, they taste – blech! – like grape candy.)
They taste more like grape jelly than the candy flavoring, to me. I get them every year, since they naturally grow in the NE.
Artificial banana flavor is supposed to be an exaggerated version of what Gros Michel bananas tasted like.
And there are fears that its replacement, the banana we are familiar with now — the Cavendish — could suffer from a similar fate.
Yeah, it’s amazing how Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron managed to zero in on probably the worst possible example of “God’s creation”, since the modern banana is clearly established to be a product of man’s effort (not to mention how hilarious it was to see Ray talking about how easy it was to put in his mouth).
Furthermore, if that’s evidence of God’s love for us, then what the hell does a pineapple say about God’s feelings towards us?
CORN looked like what nine thousand years ago?
Corn LOOKED like what nine thousand years ago?
Ah the effectiveness of emphasis on a different word. (My favorite is “I never said she stole my money.” Place the emphasis on a different word each time… and they’re all distinctly different meanings.)
A Nobody tells Galasso what he can’t do?
NOBODY tells Galasso what he can’t do!
comment section I am disappointed that only one person has pointed out why she’s freaking out in that last panel. though Morty uses the 4004 year old earth dialogue, another more common thing you hear from Christians is the 6000 year dialogue, as they say that the bible gives all sorts of important facts that show the earth was created 6000 years ago. which of course makes for a fun game where you can point out civilizations that are 10,000 years old and have them explain that. ~<3
I wonder what they’d say if you told them about Jericho? That biblical place? People have been living there for at least 9000 years.
I think the 4004 refers to 4004 BC — which would be 6000-ish years ago, or the age favored by the YEC-chies who get the most press.
hmm, entirely possible, I like the Onion article someone else linked in here, “Sumerians look on in confusion as God creates world.” ~<3
The secret of secular biology textbooks: they are drier than desert sand.
A bit corny too.
Not content merely with forbidden fruits, Becky seems to have moved on to the vegetables.
+1
She wants to taste Dina’s forbidden fruit, eh, eh, ‘mIright? (I’m talking about giblets)
Nope, corn.
It’s gonna be like that one episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
It’s adorable how little Becky knows about natural history.. until I remember that she has been systematically lied to her entire life.
FUDGE YOU, INTELLIGENT DESIGN PEOPLE
Yup, it’s really shitty when you are interested in Biology, but your whole school district is infested with YECs. I’m just glad the internet was around so that I could self-teach. And yeah, the Biology education so many receive in America is so bad because of that bloody batch of fantastical nonsense.
Corn nine thousand years ago looked like a pinecone, and probably tasted like one.
I suspect Dina has ulterior motives in dating Becky.
“Yes…yessss…soon this one will be educated.” *rubs her little dino hands together in glee*
She is a tiny angel in a dino hoodie
I guess she’ll have to date Joyce and Mary next.
Carbon or radiometric?
Better try both.
Mua ha ha, today the admission of a historically accurate paleozoic era, tomorrow the (correct age of) the world (also snuggles)!!! Muahahaha!
Dat geologic timescale, tho.
History you learn about corn.
Seriously, Becky, you’re going to be seeing a lot more zeros at the end of figures if you’re going to read into this. If 9,000 shocks you, you might want to stop there!
Speaking as someone who believes in intelligent design but not the ‘Young Earth’ form, I have to say that I genuinely find YEC a bit embarrassing, especially as it is based on a narrow interpretation of the English translation of the Hebrew and Aramaic original.
That said, whilst I understand DWM found his own investigations into this matter revelatory, I do hope that he doesn’t spend too long harping on about this; it would get boring and repetitive very quickly.
I admit to being bothered by your assumption that showing someone looking into this could only be done in a boring manner.
Boring is in the eye of the beholder and is the ultimate subjective criteria. What you may find interesting, I might not and what you may find boring, I may find interesting. Such is the way of the human mind.
True. But that doesn’t mean uninteresting things can’t be made interesting. For instance, I am generally bored to tears by sports. But Invictus still managed to make me care about rubgy for a couple of hours.
For instance: Cosmos
Okay, first, who is DWM?
Secondly, I trust that Willis will present these ideas in a manner that stays interesting and relevant to the plot. It’s not like this comic’s gonna turn into a history lesson.
David Willis, mangaka™
(Ok not really the commenter just transposed two of Willis’s initials)
“DYW” usually means “Damn You, Willis”. It’s common shorthand, here.
Yes? the OP said “DWM”, not “DYW”. That’s what I was riffing off of.
My dad prefers a date of ten thousand years, which is the number I grew up with. So even among the young earth creationists, there’s such a thing as too young.
Though I’m fairly agnostic specifically about the nature of the creation, I recall once offering the “last thursday while your back was turned” hypothesis. Absolute Omniscience, Omnipresence, and Omnipotence over the whole of creation means you don’t actually need, nor would you expect, a specific start date. You might as well pick whichever one you like.
That’s already a thing:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism
That’s not technically what I mean. That’s intended to parody young earth creationism and the notion that there’s a huge celestial scam going on to hide the “truth”. And I’m cool with that, but it’s still founded on the notion that the creation has a start date. The only reason we assume that is because we’re bound by a linear perception of time. Things have a beginning, an end, a natural flow of things because we’re born, grow up, and mark the passage of time through abstracts and cues around us. But that’s all a part of the same creation. But if we’re to accept a truly omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient creator of everything, then the next logical step is to assume that that creator isn’t bound by our perception of time. There’s no beginning of time, no end of time, no time before time, because time itself is part of the same creation, and what we perceive as past, present, and future don’t in and of themselves have a unique meaning to an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent entity. They’re all just variables in a massive unknowable celestial equation. They exist because they exist. It’s our attempt to puzzle them out from somewhere at the bottom of the celestial chalkboard that makes us think they mean something.
Shorter version: we would all be better off thinking of an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent creator of all that is, was, will be, and can’t be as less a Majestically bearded white guy and more Azathoth.
Careful, Dina: too much info could break Becky’s brain! D:
Define corn (its meaning varies).
Today, Becky is finding out there’s no impenetrable line between “history” and what is happening in the world around us. Things really happened, and continue to happen as a result of what happened, in an ongoing process that even involves you personally.
This I think is the most insidious effect of learning your history from just one source. The particular lies and insanities that source may teach doesn’t even matter, but that one, limited narrative will make you see a space between where that story ends and where the world you inhabit begins, and you can’t help but think that means you’re a different kind of being than those who lived back then.
And then how can you work to avoid repeating their mistakes? If you see how the corn we have now grew out of that which grew in the beginning of the agricultural era, I think you’ve got a better chance.
here ya go people http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/selection/corn/ just in case you want to know what it looked like lol
you know, written history goes back about 10,000 years. I really don’t get how some creationists can seriously claim a 6000 year old earth when we literally have deeds to property that was sold millennia before that. Also, the scientist who figured out the true age of the earth also realized that lead was a deadly poison that industry was just throwing all over the place willy-nilly at the time. So the fact that she didn’t grow up with brain damage is directly related to a scientist figuring out the thing that her home schooled textbooks denied.
Allow Joyce to give you a demonstration of the underlying thought process
The bible is the only truth, and all the evidence that the world is older then the bible claims are really just the devil trying to deceive us….
Though IIRC even the bible’s text allows for more then 6000 years.
Yes, sweetie, the earth really is much, much older than you were taught.
You’re probably just making up these stories about fundie education, America.
It’s just a joke. Over-exaggeration. Right?
Careful, depending on the answers we might have to bomb you. Oh, right. If we had any.
I cannot tell if sarcastic or not. The end makes me think it’s a joke but I dunno.
If not, Willis was raised a fundie. He writes from depressing experience.
http://wonkette.com/516872/sundays-with-the-christianists-a-biology-textbook-that-explains-science-is-mostly-atheists-making-things-up
There is so much irony in Christians accusing atheists of making things up, I can’t even.
As somebody with a great love for the sciences, that website makes me unhappy.
You really like that article don’t you?
I can not get past the tree, partly due to what I learned about how they work from a couple undergrad courses involving Computational Biology….
Well, the actually is the objective minded are the majority but, it was not until the last two census they were brave enough to publicly say so.
You can still find places here where you’ll meet a concentration of people that haven’t thought it through.
In those places, you will get a ‘Merry Obeymas,’ whether you like it or not.
*cough Texas cough-cough*
And now, we watch the successive queries of “corn” cause a huge spike in Google Analytics…
Might be easier to pop a more obscure word like teosinte up in the rankings…
But the real question is:
Candy corn looked like what nine thousand years ago?
I seat what you did chair
I resent the notion that people find the universe boring.
Heh you are all just jealous certain biology textbooks teach you how to make wine and beer.
We made vodka in chemistry class.
We made a stink bomb.
A vial of which mysteriously disappeared during the session, and was found in history class the day after.
he he he he he hehehehhee.
Aw yeah. I remember getting my “computer privileges” (access to a TRS-80 model I) suspended when I asked “but what about the dinosaurs?” at my Lutheran high school. FUN times.
Not wanting to disrupt the thread about people not taking “not my preference” for an answer, but wanting to interject something else: If you think being gay/lesbian is a choice because YOU made the choice to be straight, you are not straight. You’re bi to some degree and decided not to act upon that. Not that there is anything wrong with that, you just can’t say you’re straight.