I know you’re being sarcastic but it wouldn’t hurt if Becky maybe helped Joyce a little, its not all a one way street
Yes Becky is going through hard times but Becky must also realise the position shes putting Joyce in so the very least she could do is maybe try to help Joyce out just a little
Maybe not be quite so flippant or try taking Joyces fears seriously…
I know most on here think Becky can do no wrong but her actions might lead to Joyce getting removed from college
Maybe wait later than two days after her life went to shit.
There’s not much she can do, anyway. She’s very clearly aware of the burden she places on Joyce (or rather, the burden Joyce voluntarily took on because Becky’s her friend and she loves her), but right now there is no alternative. Either Becky is in this dorm, hiding from her dad and the university staff, or she’s out on the street. There’s no middle ground.
What exactly have you expected her to have done in 3 days time? She got the hair cut for self care. In my culture, cutting hair symbolizes cutting away the past and starting fresh, so honestly I’ve been startled by the backlash. That seemed pretty important to me, and well worth it. Do you think she should also have a job by now? In three days?
Or do you mean she should clean her room, do her laundry, scrub the toilets, and change the sheets?
Well yeah, I mean duh, magical leprechauns that fix all problems are like what? $19.95 these days? And they’re conveniently available on every street corner. I mean, really Becky has no real excuse. That $20 could have ended cancer faster than a Robin DeSanto bill!
I think the “Backlash” comes from the fact that while there’s not much Becky can do right now…she could at least not be a jerk. Something she has struggled with. She’s been a pretty big one most of the time actually.
She’s been there for two days for Christ’s sake. After suddenly becoming homeless with almost no resources. Her choices were to let her father try to “fix” her, move into an alley somewhere, or visit Joyce and then probably end up in an alley.
Staying there wasn’t ever her choice. It was Joyce’s alone. Her choice, her call, and she was well aware of the consequences when she made it.
One of the most common, and also the hardest, problems for most readers of this comic is to watch young people being realistically ignorant and making poor choices, without ending up hating them all for being young and stupid (and, most likely, reminding us of stuff we did when we were young and stupid).
My apologies. I find Becky annoying sometimes, but I also understand (just a little) of what she’s going through. The comments section when she comes up lately has been… disheartening, on occasion.
Nah it’s cool. I thought I was being completely, totally ridiculous, but the Becky hate in the comments is ridiculous enough that what I said could be seen as an unironic post.
I don’t know, sometimes I feel that we’re developing some version of Poe’s Law here with some of these characters coming in. Call it Becky’s Law I guess.
Yea, I still don’t get the drastic hate for Becky. She might be annoying to some people, but she clearly is Joyces best friend. Teasing Joyce seems to be her way of showing affection and making the mood lighter. And her life is upside down, so you can’t expect her to be calm and rational, especially since she’s a teen.
Also … I had a friendship like Joyce and Becky and I was the Becky. She used to blush over the simplest things which was just so funny. But she knew it was only teasing and not bullying or something like that.
Like really at the very least she could maybe not actively go out of her way to press Joyce’s buttons just to watch her freak out literally while she’s in the middle of doing her a massive favour that could have very real consequences for her. Though honestly you shouldn’t be doing that to your friends under any circumstances it’s just kind of mean.
I think whether pressing someone’s buttons is mean depends on how they feel about it. I have friendships based solidly on messing with each other to humorous effect. I also have friendships where that’s more or less one sided, in various directions. If it’s done with an eye for what might actually be hurtful, and everyone’s having fun, I figure it’s all good. In this case, having a friendship like this allows Becky to cause Joyce to question some of her ideas in a manner that is lighthearted and probably seems very normal and non-confrontational to her.
Also, Becky and Joyce’s friendship has always been about Becky pushing Joyce’s buttons. Becky and Walky were joking about it together back when Becky first showed up. The problem is that Becky hasn’t been taught healthy ways to express her sexuality and doesn’t know about Ryan, so she can’t tell that “tease Joyce about her pickiness” is okay and won’t make Joyce feel bad about herself and “make Joyce uncomfortable by hitting on her” is very, very bad.
Posters on here realise that if you say anything negative towards Becky you’ll get quite few responses telling you you’re wrong and basically heartless
Maybe it just takes a certain amazing level of asshole — in response to a strip in which Becky shows nothing but near-tearful remorse for frightening problems outside of her control — to double down and continue to shit all over her.
A lot of people like to point out Becky’s remorse, her break down, and the fact that its been 2 days since her life was “ruined”.
I’d like to point out that we cant REALLY give ANY commentary on Becky. Seeing as she’s been living a lie (not just her sexuality, but the nature of her care for joyce, and even how Christian and religious she is), and also right now she’s on an emotional roller coaster between self hate and finally accepting herself.
Depending on David’s writing (or rather how he chooses to characterize Becky in the future) we dont know what Becky is really like.
(though i think its fair to say she doesnt mind saying controversial things)
P.S. It actually reminds me of in Roomies when people were telling Danny to basically “get over it” not weeks or even months after a certain someone lost her life because of him. Its like “I’m sorry my life being ruined is annoying you!”
“Living a lie” isn’t really a fair description. More like still putting the pieces together. Feels be complex, yo. The stronger they are, the more confusing they can be.
“Becky is literally Satan. She should have cloned that 20$ and farted out a perfect resume to go find a job that would instantly pay a six figure salary and land her an awesome penthouse. But instead she’s voluntarily choosing to be poor by not having an emergency plan for when her entire life gets ruined.”
Have you not noticed the remorse Becky has shown? Or do you just skip over that because you want to keep hating her?
Thank you Willis for saying that because holy crap what the hell you guys? And I’m one of the people who has clucked my tongue at some of Becky’s choices! But I don’t hate her. I think she’s a scared child who is trying to make the best of the situation she’s in, and that happens to be bursting out in strange ways.
She’s been here three days and you’re calling her her names. She couldn’t control her situation. She went to Joyce, the only person who MIGHT be willing to help. She was banking on Joyce also being queer, but luckily Joyce wanted to help her out any way. But it seems to me that you’d rather that Becky was on the streets, fending for herself.
She did help Joyce out. Joyce asked her not to wander around in Joyce’s pajamas, so Becky borrowed clothes from somebody else. She probably shouldn’t have then gone “Look at me!” in the middle of the hallway, granted (I’m not actually sure if it was her or the clothes or Joyce’s reaction to the clothes that attracted attention–it’s morning and nobody was wearing very much). But Joyce pointed out a problem and Becky tried to find a way to fix it.
On a complete tangent based on the sentence “But it seems to me that you’d rather that Becky was on the streets, fending for herself.”:
I think that actually is a thing.
The suffering poor are expected to be suffering on a level completely devoid of even the smallest comfort, convenience, or aid, or else they are relegated to the category of not real victim (see the weird outrage that sprang up when homeless people were given cell phones even though having a phone to be called back is critical for getting a job to not be homeless anymore).
And more importantly, they are expected to suffer off camera where “real people” don’t have to handle the side effects of what the culture produces (see most horrible hate thrown at homeless people even by nominally liberal people and the expectation that they be herded away from places with high traffic of people).
In some ways, it’s very similar to the way queerness is often treated by homophobic organizations, with all the calls for gay people to crawl back in the closet and quietly suffer and never speak up for themselves so that the homophobes don’t have to actually see the side effects of their desire to pretend that gay people don’t actually exist.
It’s a very odd American quirk, that we’d far prefer that things be out of sight and out of thought than actually stop the problem from existing in the first place.
I would actually argue that Canada’s ability to stay in denial is if anything even worse than America’s. Despite everything that has happened with the murdered and missing aboriginal women there is much less of a debate about race than there is over in the US.
I feel that this is partially because a lot of Canadians feel like they don’t have to talk about our problems because they see America’s as so much worse and partially because Canada is an overly polite society which normally is a good thing, but at times like these prevents people from taking a stand for fear of upsetting people.
Yeah.. Becky is just a human like all of us. She has her good points and her bad points. Like all other characters in this comic. Like all of us. Surely even we have done things and have been judged. We are taking things way too seriously in blaming Becky as well as defending her. Let’s just read this comic and enjoy its story and beautiful art work. Thank you Mr. Willis.
It can be okay to dislike her because- say she acts like a dick to people sometimes who don’t deserve it- or her brief interlude of biphobia etc (but she’ll grow up from that last one I think) but it’s not okay I think to say things like an 18 year old who can at last be honest about herself can’t be enthusiastic/is being selfish if she is- or thinking in like three days should already be self sufficient/making steps to be without a small break from not thinking about such scary things.
She’s 18. She’s a kid and the meat of the bad situation is not her fault. It’s her father’s fault.
It’s about unrealistic expectations and how certain commenters (ahem) repeatedly and stubbornly refuse to grasp how Becky’s not just there to fuck up Joyce’s life. You are, in fact, wrong and if not basically heartless, doing a pretty good facsimile thereof.
I need the help of someone talented from this comic’s fandom! I need someone to make a good Blaine mii so I can kick the crap out of him with my Amazi-girl mii brawler! 😀 With the new patch I can share the replay. (I can’t make miis any good, I got amazi-girl from tumblr)
If you do this, you MUST post the video! Make sure it’s as painful as possible. Then add Toe-Dad & Ryan for the next round of victims. I’m sure those’ll get plenty of love…
It’s what Linkara sits on top of. You know, from the classic nursery rhyme.
Linkara sat Atop the Fourth Wall
Linkara slipped and had a great fall
All of the Pollos and all of the Nimues
Couldn’t make Frank Miller a decent writer
And you, AgentKeen, are looking at me like… Ow! Headache.
Would you like to be represented by your avatar, or the mirrored sunglass wearing stereotypical agent your username invokes?
Because the whole… both but neither thing that not knowing causes. Now I have a weird mental image due to the metafiction webcomics I was reading earlier…
You know, I wonder what Sarah and Mary think of Each other? They’re nothing alike but the one thing they have in common makes up most of their personality.
You know both being judgmental while one is in the right most of the time and the other being in the wrong.
Sarah and Mary have similarities. Sarah believe everyone is evil, including herself, and everyone should be avoided. Mary believes everyone is evil except herself, and its her duty to punish/inspire everyone until they are more like her.
I’ve always seen Mary as Joyce’s exact opposite
They are both Christian but while Joyce sees the best in everyone Mary uses religion as an excuse to be an ass to people. It seems to be sorta physical too, Joyce has light poofy hair, while Mary has straight dark shire
Another difference is that Sarah,despite believing the worst of people much of the time, still has the ability to care about others, especially if she likes them or believes they’re good or kind people. For instance, cares about Joyce’s welfare and is very protective of her.
On the other hand, Mary cares about no one but herself, and in fact seems to enjoy making trouble for people.
Clearly, Becky isn’t perfect. One of the reasons I enjoy this comic so much is because we’re shown that none of these characters are perfect, even if they’re fantastic in various ways.
That being said, you can be the cause of some problems, without being at fault for them. Clearly, Becky going to Joyce for help is causing some difficulties for Joyce. I just don’t see how anyone with half a heart or any empathy can really say it’s her fault.
The only thing you could possibly say “Yes this is your fault” about is that she made out with another girl.
But it’s the school’s fault that they cracked down on that. It’s her father’s fault for being horrific to her. The better alternative to him was to rough it on the streets. I mean good god, can you imagine?
Becky going to Joyce for help caused this. But it isn’t really her fault that it happened, unless you think she should have closeted herself for 4 years.
If you are the cause of a difficulty, its your fault. Well, that’s how I understand the word. Not thinking things through doesn’t absolve you of responsibility.
Just to clearify. Becky’s father being a douche, not her fault. Becky running from him, not her fault. Becky going to her best friend for help, ignoring her advice and yelling “look at me, look at me!” to everyone…her fault.
You know what, whatever on that whole latter… thing. I’m just going to address the first sentence.
No. It’s really possible to have someone be impacted, to have things made difficult because of a situation they carry and because of the person’s proximity to them, and for it not to be that person’s fault.
Most obvious example, rape survivors. They often have PTSD and triggers that directly impact and inconvenience their partners. Their partners often have to be more aware of no-go-zones and may even need to forego whole behaviors they would otherwise enjoy and have a huge aspect of their relationship impacted and made more difficult.
But most… or at least the portion of humanity I would feel safer with would be hard-pressed to blame the survivor for that difficulty, even though they are nominally the “cause”.
It’s the same with survivors of the trauma of this level of homophobia. There’s fallout, both physical and emotional and that impacts friends and loved ones, but that’s not really on the survivor of that.
Which, springboarding off this to talk about something different, Joyce’s insistence on it not being Becky’s fault makes me wonder if Joyce actually internalized the most important nugget to be mined out of Roz’s bullshit from the last class. That it’s not just about individual actions, but systems that directly impact others and make their lives hard and if part of why this is tearing her apart so much is that she’s becoming more and more aware that the systems that raised her and protected her and which she credits for all her morality might be horrendously antiquated and fully invested in the worsening of others lives (like not in a Toe Dad is awful way, but sacrilegious thoughts that the form of Christianity she grew up might not be the strain she supports now.)
So, you’re saying that people aren’t responsible for the phobias that otherers direct at them, and its not their fault if their existence “makes” otherers uncomfortable, AND its not even their fault if major social patterns that marginalize and denigrate and reject them impact their emotions and behavior? Huh? That seems pretty radical, don’t you think?
Not of her rude and unhelpful behaviour which is what Kennerly pretty clearly seems to be referring to. That’s entirely within her control, it’s not her college or her dad’s fault that she’s been rude to all of Joyce’s other friends and drawn as much attention to herself as she can manage. It’s not their fault that she actively goes out of her way to make Joyce uncomfortable. The situation isn’t her fault but how she chooses to act within that context sure as hell is.
None of those things she did has anything to do with Joyce’s distress on this strip. It hasn’t provoked any real problem for Joyce. None whatsoever. If you think it did, please say what problem actually happened because of that. A single example.
Joyce’s mother didn’t call her because Becky was spotted in the hall.
Her answering with a lie wasn’t because of Becky’s new haircut.
Joyce isn’t skipping meals because of Becky being insensitive to Dorothy.
None of this comes from Becky’s attitude. Things would be just a bad for Joyce if Becky were the perfect human being people appear to require her to be.
“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s noodles, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s ramen, nor his spahgetti, nor his Pad See Ew, nor his lasagna, nor his chicken noodle soup, nor any noodle dish.”
“it’s not her college or her dad’s fault that she’s been rude to all of Joyce’s other friends”
Yay! An actual character flaw!
Yep, she’s super jealous and prone to being an immature dick because of it, especially to Dorothy who she resents because Joyce and her have one of those friendships that’s almost like a romantic relationship (which bothers not only her feelings of loss for those romantic feelings, but also Becky’s feelings of having lost the best friend spot to her) and Ethan (who she saw as having what she most wanted). It’s petty and a genuine failing of her character and one she struggles with and is not often successful in her internal struggling.
Finally, something directly tied to a real failing on her part rather than something that was dumped on her, related to her sexuality, or echoing Joyce’s character flaw in being scared of Becky’s pride and desire to be true to herself.
If we want to trace the root cause of this entire situation, Becky’s got one other fault: She doesn’t lock the door before having sex.
Seriously, who does that ever, even once? I once lived in a one-bedroom house four miles from the nearest neighbor and we still locked the doors before having sex. Walk-ins are a major mood killer and embarrassing all around. Well, barring certain roleplaying scenarios.
At least that one’s not all on Becky. The other girl could just as well have locked up. So I guess that’s half a fault? 🙂
Most people (in my experience) make a point of locking the door to their fuckspace, for lack of a better term, due to having been walked in on before, even if they were just masturbating or even in the middle of getting dressed. (There’s also probably the factor of whether or not someone’s an only child; I think that kids with siblings probably tend to learn to guard their privacy more in the process of growing up.) Certainly we can imagine a scenario in which things between Becky and Kaitlin escalated more rapidly than either person expected, and they were in the habit of leaving their dorm room unlocked because of people occasionally dropping in.
I’m a cautious old man. Kissing (beyond a casual hello-honey peck on the cheek) is sex to me, and the door gets locked. Even if the plan was just a little necking and a cuddle, you’re never more than ten seconds of impulsive escalation from an X rating.
And yes, I was like that at 18 too. Probably learned behavior. My first dorm had several guys who regarded unexpected entrances as high comedy. Which they are, when they aren’t happening to you. 🙂
Halloween Jack: it’s a pretty good term, but it could be “f-space”?
Rich: OTOH, you seem to have been rational past your years, (or once burned, shy thereafter?), but I think it’s different if you’re a teen who’s been lucky enough not to have been walked in on previously … or discovered in a car in a public park … late at night. OTOH, in my Fresh dorm I once went with a guy back to his room, where his roomie and r’ s girlfriend were already busy; the couple continued what they were doing and I was surprised/embarrassed at first but decided, if they’re ok with the situation I can be too.
HM, could that be misread? In the interests of full disclosure I and my friend were just stopping at his Rom to get something on the way out of the dorm ….
I suspect, since this was apparently first experimentation for both of them, they probably eased their way into it, with neither of them willing to commit up front to the “We’re going to do something naughty” statement of locking the door.
We also don’t know how long they were at it. They could have been interrupted right away and would have locked the door if it went on a few minutes longer. Or they could have been caught up in the moment and not thought of it.
Even back in the college days, I certainly kissed and necked without locking doors. If escalation started, that’s when you get up and lock the door.
Fogel, just living on the same wing as the “comedians” in my dorm that enjoyed bursting into rooms without warning was enough to teach to lock up. Watching the neighbors get invaded was quite enough. The “Lenny and Squiggy” guys (there’s a dated reference) also thought hammering on doors with socks on the knob was hilarious.
You know, the more I think about it, the less funny those two were. How did they survive freshman year again?
As for the rest, I decline to comment on how many times I’ve been bitten over the years. Definitely not shy, though. Just cautious. 🙂
There’s nothing wrong with Becky’s enthusiastic pride with the exception that when you are covertly crashing in your best friends dorm it’s just kind of not cool to risk getting them into a whole mess of trouble by drawing attention to yourself regardless of whether or not the means by which you do so are bad in and of themselves. Like yes, Joyce’s reasons for wanting her to keep a bit more of a lid on it aren’t (or at least they don’t seem to be) about not blowing her cover they’re about her own hangups but that doesn’t mean that that practical and very real reason for why it’s a shitty thing to do doesn’t matter.
I also feel that his behavior is the result of her having been homeschooled, and probably not very well socialized. Possibly the only kid her age for her to hang out with Joyce, who probably was too nice to object if her snark was too extreme or hurtful. Becky probably wasn’t at Anderson long enough to learn how she was coming across to people who hadn’t known her all her life. Now, if she goes on not learning or taking hints, it will be her fault, but hopefully now she’s out among other non-Joyce young people, she’ll learn better ways of interacting.
The only time that Becky intentionally drew attention to herself in public was when she came out to Walky, Mike and Billie. When she showed off the haircut Joyce was being followed by people. This morning in comic time she merely commented on Billie’s clothes which were drawing attention to Billie not Becky. Most recently Becky showed up in an outfit that showed some skin, and Joyce reacted like she was on the standard board of I Dream of Jeannie where a bellybutton couldn’t be seen on air.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I think every time people go “Oh she’s so loud and terrible at keeping a low profile”.
Becky is actually really good at fading into the background when she’s in the halls alone and was pretty good at finessing her encounter with Ruth, while Joyce was the one to pretty much start nervously laughing about how she totally doesn’t have a secret roommate, ha ha and nearly give it away.
In fact, Joyce’s freakouts over Becky being herself owing to Joyce’s hangups (which isn’t to say Joyce is bad, just that she’s working through a lot of baggage surrounding sexual self-expression, and especially queer self-expression) have been way more attention-drawing and risky to the situation than any of the behavior Becky has exhibited so far.
As you note, pretty much the only time she did the “look at me” thing people complain about was when she had her spree of coming out to the people she had met the previous day.
And I think it’s that particular fact which makes me tend to round that into the general “Becky is at fault or is wrong acting because (reason owing entirely to being queer)” camp.
Especially since they often echo Joyce’s complaints at the time, which were definitely more about her discomfort at Becky being proud and out than any genuine concern about keeping the secret of Becky’s housing situation safe.
Shorter me: Joyce has been shown time and time again to be a much bigger threat to outing the housing situation and ruining it for the both of them than Becky has been.
Hmm, Joyce hits her abort, retry, fail point and ends up needing a manual reboot and some time spent shut down. And I thought Ultra Car was the robot of the Walkyverse…
But, on a serious note, this is damnyouwillis feels poison. Joyce just straight up traumatized by her first big step into genuine moral relativism (doing something that’s a “bad” in the worldview she was raised in, because relatively it would not be a greater wrongdoing than telling the truth or even a half-truth) and something she personally despises, because she finally sees the value it can have. She’s having amazing personal growth during all this time, but I worry that the short-term cost may be additional trauma and self-loathing on a mind that is already reeling from it (and this is where I pityingly implore a fictional character to fucking open up to her best friend already and get some emotional support).
And Becky… this has come up both of the last two nights and this morning (in comic time) how much she is blaming herself for all the fallout her terrible situation carries and how little she can stand it when her situation has residual fallout on others (especially the person she loves the most of anybody in the whole world and who she’s carrying the biggest torch for). And there’s no easy fix or simple action to change that, unfortunately and its one of the suckier aspects of being a shat-upon minority group. Seeing the shitty things that hit you leave ricochet damage on those you care about and it can be the hardest parts to live down (I’ve been through my share of shit, but the hardest moments were when people I cared about were hurt by the people trying to hurt me because they dared try to stand up for me or with me or just happened to be there and not fully aware of what I encounter on a daily basis). And it’s really hard not to feel guilty or blame yourself even if you know what is actually responsible for that shittiness.
Fuck, I’m with Bagge from yesterday, I just want to curl into a ball and give them hugs until life stops hurting for the both of them.
I accidentally read the in-parenthesis part of your fifth sentence as “… I pityingly implore a fictional character to fucking open up her best friend…”
Now all I can see is Becky with a surgical mask and a bloody scalpel. I am obviously in need of sleep, but am too frightened to acquire any.
…And the nightmare fuel is fixed by fond memories of a Rage Quit video! Wow, what a comeback folks, I really thought our team was in for a crushing defeat, but…
Line?
Yeah, maybe I should try watching a sports movie before attempting that joke next time. Goodnight Seattle… err, Hades?
This isn’t the first time we see Joyce having to fracture her sense of morality to get something done, just the most personally painful. Her worst problem right now is not having anyone to talk to about it, who can both sympathize on the same level of morality and keep the source of it all a secret. (Dorothy’s fine for the latter, but not the former. I think she knows… three other people, not including Sarah, who don’t quite qualify but still come close.)
On the other hand, it’s hard to support that view of Becky when the arc has been going out of its way to make clear that there’s probably a couple, if not a few, places for her to get help. They’ve been too wrapped up in their problem to seek them out, probably due to inexperience rather than youth.
Geez… at this point, even something like Mike turning out to have a pretty good idea of what’s going on – and then “helping” – would be better than nothing.
“Her worst problem right now is not having anyone to talk to about it, who can both sympathize on the same level of morality and keep the source of it all a secret. ”
That’s pretty much why I think Becky is the person she needs to talk to. Becky came from the same background and she’s crazy good at keeping a secret when she has a mind to (and having the person she’s over the moon for and who has been her best friend for years and who she thinks she owes everything to open up to her is a damn good incentive for that).
And she’s even in a similar boat though further along in moving away from that particular viewpoint of Christianity.
No, see, it’s the opposite of a good idea to keep it a closed circle. You end up with only a few viewpoints at most that way – and in this case they both come from persecution-happy backgrounds.
An echo chamber is rarely a good source of ideas and progress, but that’s what’s happening here with these two.
I don’t know. She doesn’t really need someone to form consensus with or plan the design of a building. She needs someone to vent all the shit going on in her head to someone who understands.
I’m one of those awful people Willis was likely pointing out.
I don’t like Becky.
I feel sorry for her for the shake she got from her fathers reaction, then choosing to run away from home to get away from the ‘change or else’ attitude.
But I do not excuse her attitude and actions since she arrived on Joyce’s doorstep.
My generation had these problems and then some (like the draft boards) as students today: and we didn’t whine about it half so much.
My best friends brother came out to parents and was promptly kicked out of the house at 17. He lied his age and got a job in a gas station the next day (after 12 interviews at every fast food, bakery, etc he could walk to). He slept at friends houses for 2 weeks till he got his first check and then rented a furnished room for almost the entire check. He lived on French bread and peanut butter until he got a bit ahead. He had a dinner party to thank his friends for their help.
A female friend went thru the same scenario.
Neither of them parked themselves on a friend and sat there. Imo, Becky is a leech. She is not a child, she’s legal age.
She may be hurting but, let me tell you why I think her situation IS HER FAULT.
She chose to sleep with another girl in an unlocked room in a dorm that did NOT approve of that.
She chose to run away from home when her father pulled her tuition, rather than facing him and discussing it.
She chose to run away from home without first thinking ahead enough to pack a suitcase after her father picked her up. And running that night.
She chose to be rude to Joyce’s friends. True she is upset so not such a big.
She chose to play stupid and wander the halls -not once but twice- and get herself noted by the RA both times.
Is there anyone on this chat that can tell me that she is so young (ooonly 18) and so stupid that she does not know that if she is caught she will likely get not just her self, but Joyce kicked out of school.
If she gets Joyce kicked out by her irresponsibilty it will be her FAULT.
The only thing that has happened to Becky so far that is not her fault, is being born gay. She has to learn to come to terms with it on her own-this is something no one else can do for her.
She has to learn also, that it is no one else’s responsibility to support her while she acts out.
It’s called growing up.
Been there, done that.
okay, now that I look at it again (after posting hastily) there are some points I disagree on, and areas where she didn’t really have other options. but I still think you argued your position well. *shrug*
When you say it is Becky who is the bad person for making out with a girl (she did not sleep with Kaitlin, not that it matters) in a dorm that did not allow it, you are being a bigot. You are blaming the victim of persecution for the way society treats them.
Additionally, you are using your gay acquaintances as weapons to persecute other gay people for their hardships.
And for someone who is yelling at Becky for being “whiny,” you whine on this fucking website every fucking day about her. You write some of the longest posts about her, criticizing every thing she does or doesn’t do, and how she doesn’t match up to the perfect ideal stoic masterhuman in your head who does everything right immediately all the damn time. According to you just now, it is additionally her fault she did not convince her father to not be a terrible father as he was dragging her off to a brainwash camp and also that she didn’t magically produce a suitcase full of all of her belongings at a time when she could not. You are a whiny irrational jackass.
I hope you were better to your gay anecdotes/friends when they were going through their times than you are being right now to this fictional character and to the other real-life people on this board who survived what she is doing now. You’re who needs to grow up.
Nor do I at the moment, although I suspect I may fall into that camp if the relationship with Dorothy winds up hurting her in the end. Not a character that should suffer more than she already has, what with Helldad and the trauma over the holdup. But preemptively hating him for something that might not happen? No, that would be silly.
David, I’m not trying to be critical of you, have you paused to put Idon’tcarenomore’s comments in perspective? Given that “draft board” reference, he’s at least 70 years old. That’s two or three generations removed from the character he’s criticizing, with a childhood spent in a radically different society and decades to distort and rose-tint memories. I’m only 50 myself and I have to struggle with nostalgic idiocy and childhood bigotries sometimes – and it just gets worse the older you get.
I agree that his arguments are maddening in a lot of ways, but reaching any degree of empathy over the generational divides is difficult at best. Call him for bad behavior, sure, but don’t get angry about it and don’t be surprised if his opinion won’t change. Being open to personal growth is hard for us old folks.
He’s old, not a time traveler. Not all old people are bigots. And when he was young, not all of his peers were bigots.
My 70 year old grandmother marched for civil rights and went to the south to register black folks to vote. She was fully accepting and loving of me when I came out and would NEVER be as judgmental as this asshole.
There is no “context”, especially not for a man who is attempting to use his gay friends as proof of his lack of bigotry.
Bonus: he’s wrong. It was actually way easier for his friend to find a job that paid enough to make rent. Notice that he was able to live in a FURNISHED apartment on a gas station attendant’s salary.
Minimum wage: $7.25. Note that she physically cannot afford to live by herself, even working full time, and remember that it’s incredibly hard to work full time when you’re a minimum wage worker — employers are pretty careful to keep their employees at around 30 hours, so that they can avoid giving them full benefits.
If Becky wants an apartment in the same city as literally the only support she has, she’s also looking at a higher rent than the one listed, more like $600+.
Wages have not even remotely kept up with inflation. We make less right now, and the competition is much higher. Becky will be competing with college graduates for even the shittiest jobs.
I mean, I wasn’t in desperate straits and I did my last minimum wage job search in the early 2000s, but my god did I ever have to apply to way more than just 12 places.
My point wasn’t that he had an excuse, it was that arguing with him is not likely to change his mind. We all ossify in our opinions over time, and almost everyone succumbs to a gradual tide of nostalgia about the good old days (even when they were awful) and memories of how much more together we were as kids than the current generation.
There was a reason that I said his arguments were maddening. They’re very, very wrong in so many ways, not least of which is the economic issues you pointed out. And to me that’s funny, because almost all the folks I know in his generation (my parents’ generation) are struggling with many of the same issues. Housing and other costs of living are expensive for everyone, and many retirees are forced back to work because Social Security and pensions don’t cover their bills. Medical bills can easily cripple any savings they might have, and they tend to be less predictable than student loan payments that so many younger folks are buried under.
And hey, all those desperate older folks? They’re part of the reason kids these days struggle for jobs. They’re competition. The days when most grandparents and great-grandparents could expect to be able to provide some financial support to the younger generations are a thing of the past.
So I think you said a lot of interesting stuff and I’m glad you replied for the economic contribution alone, but I think “they’re unlikely to change their mind” isn’t a great reason to let this kind of toxicity go unchallenged.
I mean, people thanked him for replying. I’m among the group who appreciated hearing it. His response makes these comments feel like a safer place to contribute for us. It’s not always about changing the one guy’s mind; sometimes it’s about the audience not having to see that guy go unchallenged.
(Also keep in mind that per Willis, this guy has been commenting a LOT. A lot a lot. Did Willis reply every time, or was this the proverbial straw?)
“I had it worse” isn’t an excuse to lack empathy.
“I grew up” and “Been there, done that” aren’t excuses to look down with scorn to people still in the process of growing up.
You make *some* valid points but you keep on acting like Becky should act like someone who has had your experiences and your experiences (or anyone’s, for that matter) aren’t universal.
We’ve all messed up, some more than others. But I think in all of our messing up we can say that the person who simply points and says “you messed up” is the the least helpful one.
Because it’s not about looking for the person who’s at FAULT. That leads to what happens in this strip. Becky knows she’s responsible for part of this situation but Joyce is so obsessively trying to shield her that she won’t let her shoulder even part of the responsibility. The result: a part where they’re both feeling completely at fault/responsible for the situation instead where they come together and try to find a realistic solution, asking for outside help if necessary.
You sound like the kind of adult that makes younger people fear asking for help. Because they know they won’t find understanding, they’ll find someone who’ll say “It’s your FAULT” and they already know that.
Here’s my suggestion: stop thinking about what you would do in Becky’s situation with all the things you’ve done and seen people do and think why Becky is doing what she’s doing. Think like a girl who’s only heard about the awful future you’ll have if you choose to live as an out gay person. Think like a girl who’s battling with her identity so much that at the first chance she gets a haircut that makes her feel more comfortable. Think like a girl who came to her best friend (who she loved) hoping she might find a kindred spirit and found one but not in the way she hoped/imagined.
Because no, what Becky’s doing isn’t ideal, but it isn’t unjustified and it isn’t as damning as you make it out to be.
I don’t really think it’s fair to be attacking this poster all that much, because she is not condemning Becky for her orientation or for running away from a situation where she was condemned for it by her parents. The only thing I think a lot of people take issue with is the poster blaming her for getting caught in her dorm room. Many people don’t realize this, but getting caught having any kind of sex in a dorm room is grounds for getting thrown out (at least of the dorm if not the college) – although many choose to turn a blind eye to it. I don’t blame Becky for doing this or getting caught, but I do recognize that some may call that “technically” her fault since she was breaking the rules and should have known the risk.
On that note, Becky IS being rather inconsiderate of the predicament she places Joyce in because she is too loud and conspicuous, risking Joyce and herself getting caught. I feel like someone needs to tell Becky to keep a low profile, at least for a couple weeks so Ruth doesn’t find out. I’m not saying that she should go off and find a place to stay immediately, because you need friends to help you get your feet under you if you are going to strike out on your own. However you say Becky sat on Joyce like a leech, but even your anecdote show that your gay friends had to rely on another friend’s charity to get by (which is no different than Becky wanting help from Joyce, especially since Joyce is her best friend). Plus we have to consider Becky came to Joyce first because she figured they could be in a relationship.
I think a lot of people are also upset that you think she should have planned ahead before running away, but let’s look at this logically. Becky had no time to plan. From the time she was caught, it was get out now. She couldn’t take days to escape, and it’s likely her accounts or income were controlled by her Dad. She’s lucky she had enough cash on her to be able to reach Joyce at all. Becky’s father is no doubt even more extremely conservative than Joyce’s (think of the college Becky went to), there is NO WAY he would have listened to Becky. At best he’s one of those walking dog turds who think if they let someone else say something without interrupting but the entire time don’t give a shit about what’s being said, then they are being “fair” (and that’s at best). It’s good Becky escaped with what she had.
So yes on that note, Becky is probably no different than your past friends in what she’s asking, so she’s not any worse than them. Going to Joyce for help is no different than your friends going to their friends. The only thing I think Becky is really at fault for here is being loud, noisy, and extremely visible in the halls when she shouldn’t be and for drawing additional attention to herself by insulting the few friends Joyce has – not a smart thing to do since one could get angry enough to let Ruth know. Those are things you don’t do when someone else is sticking their neck out for you.
Having sex in the dorms was against the rules at Anderson (a Christian university), but I don’t believe that’s a rule here.
I attended IU, but I never lived in the dorms, so it’s possible that I could have missed out on hearing that one– though, I’d like to point out that sex is nowhere mentioned in the Residence Hall Guide (apart from stating that Sex Offenders aren’t eligable for residency, but that hardly seems relevant). Even if it IS a rule, it kind of seems worth pointing out that Joyce and Becky AREN’T having sex. Universities don’t really kick people out based on rumors and speculation, so.. I think we’re kind of safe on that front. While it might embarass Joyce if her residence hall thinks she’s a lesbian, the bigger issue, I think, isn’t that she might get thrown out for having sex–but that might remember Becky and notice that she’s around. A lot.
The handbook comes back into play on that topic, as the policy on guests is mentioned; apparently, a guest can only stay 4 consecutive nights (Becky has slept there two), and only “once per semester,” unless they’ve been granted special permission by the Residence Manager. There also seems to be a stipulation about guests being registered (a rule that Joyce is most likely skirting to prologue Becky’s stay), and having an escort at all times (a rule that Becky broke when she went to the bathroom down the hall). What punishment Joyce would face if she were found out, I’m not sure–but I don’t think instant expulsion from the University OR dorms seems very likely. Much more likely, Becky would be left to the mercy of the Resident Manager (Asma?).
Finally, there’s also a clause about the privacy and wishes of the roommate taking precedent over any guest. Kind of makes me wonder whether Sarah is actually waiting for Becky to break the 4-night rule before she a.) reports this or b). pulls the ‘I could report this’ card. It seems in her character to play fair by following the rules…
I wasn’t implying people would think Joyce and Becky are having sex. I was looking at the point of “blame” where Becky would have gotten kicked out even if she had been caught having hetero sex. I know when I was in college (a public, state, non-religious, huge one), and I was in a dorm, there were students who (if they were reported having sex by other residents) could be thrown out (even with nothing in the the handbook). One even got brought up on charges of showering with a male, where she tried to point out explicitly there was nothing in the handbook expressly stating that being against the rules. It’s one of those, “we shouldn’t have to print it, it goes without saying – appropriate behavior” things.
The latter one was a good friend of mine, and she told me about it during her sophmore or junior year (happened when she was a freshman) – the school basically required her to move out of their dorms, but allowed her to reapply to them the following year.
In a real university, pretty damn rarely. They have trouble throwing people out in (alleged) rape cases. If having sex was all it took, that would be enough. (Of course, it would be another incentive not to report since it could lead to both of you being kicked out.)
People keep saying that Becky is being LOUD and because of that also inconsiderate to Joyce’s position, and its rubbing me the wrong way.
The loudest has actually been in when she comes out to Walky and Mike seen here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/justbecky/ and to Billie in the next comic. Joyce is still uncomfortable with homosexuality but that’s not a reason for Becky to be closeted in this new unrepressed environment. In these strips everyone is in the lobby of the dorm, a common area for all so there is no reason to think that Becky doesn’t belong there.
Looking at the next day in storytime which is the third day Becky has been on campus, which is a Saturday (Dina mentions Becky showed up on Thursday here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/jesusgirl/ ). Becky in pajamas comments Billie on the jersey she’s wearing just before Ruth tells Billie to clear out. Upon being asked if she lived in the floor Becky deflects the question with one of her own seen here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/grab/ and then goes back to Joyce’s room as see in the next comic, and we learns she was using the bathroom as opposed to taking a stroll, and it was bad luck that she encountered Ruth. In this same comic (Gangly) Becky says that nothing says I’m not living with Joyce like wearing a sweater vest everyday. This is a good point on how Joyce’s wardrobe is more likely to get them busted as opposed to using the hall bathroom when the shared one is occupied.
So Becky borrows clothing from Sal, because all of Billie’s clothes are in Ruth’s room. In the comic Barely (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/barely/ ) Joyce (not Becky) makes a scene in part due to the questioning flyer and being able to see Becky’s belly button. We have seen a number of students awake on this Saturday morning so I feel it’s safe to say that it’s most likely after 10am by this point. So it shouldn’t be too out of the ordinary to see non-floor mates walking around.
If Joyce and Becky really want to draw of suspicion that she’s living there all they need to do is lie and say Becky transferred (should still be early enough in the year for this) and is living off campus or in a different dorm or off campus. That should satisfy most of the floor but doesn’t really lead to plot related drama.
So tldr; Becky was loud once in the lobby of the dorm and by mentioning Joyce’s wardrobd will likely bust them Becky is being considerate of the situation. Also Joyce caused the most recent scene with Ruth because Becky was showing skin.
Which makes it really hard not to interpret the complaints about loudness being more about her pride and her queerness, especially when so often it gets followed up by the usual litany of invented “crimes”.
“Many people don’t realize this, but getting caught having any kind of sex in a dorm room is grounds for getting thrown out (at least of the dorm if not the college) – although many choose to turn a blind eye to it.”
That’s not true. I don’t believe it’s been true for any secular college for a very very long time. Heck, even the guest rules don’t tend to be enforced very well. I remember during my time in a dorm a friend’s roommate’s girlfriend came and stayed over for a whole month and most nights the friend was sexiled from the room so they could have sex and the RA basically shrugging about it even though the friend was having to sleep in the study box most nights. And my mom used to have stories of a similar situation when she went to college and having to find a corner of the library to sleep in.
And the Becky thing isn’t even anywhere near the same page as that.
“I feel like someone needs to tell Becky to keep a low profile, at least for a couple weeks so Ruth doesn’t find out.”
I can’t speak for today, but of the four schools I attended in the 80s not one of them would have even thought of expelling a student for dorm sex, and extended guest stays were fine as long as there weren’t complaints from the roomies. One year I effectively had a two-bed single because my roommate effectively moved in with his girlfriend (in a woman’s dorm no less – never did find out how he got away with that). Used to rent the spare bed to sexiles so they didn’t have crash in the lounge. Pretty good business, that.
Well that applies to the “turn a blind eye” thing. I moved into my boyfriend’s dorm (from my dorm) my sophmore year. (This was 1999-2000.) Prior to that I hardly knew tons of people who were having sex in the rooms. But like several RAs told me, they have no problem with it as long as no one else has a problem with it. However, if someone else does have a problem then they’ll have a problem. More often than not, the people being “reported” to Housing Admin. were not because of an issue with what they were doing, but because of other “feuds” between those students.
Oh sure, most RAs are pretty laid back…or lazy, depending on your POV. Playing sex police is no fun at all for anyone, and if they get complaints it tends to be Mutually Assured Destruction for everyone involved. I remember one gal got fed up with her roomies boyfriend and got him banned from sleepovers, but the RA got her kicked out for alcohol violations the very next week.
The only times I can recall dorm sexy times being a problem involved single-sex dorms, and that was mostly because of the shared bathrooms issue. Unisex facilities were not a thing back then, at least at the schools I attended.
I spent three years of my undergrad (early-mid 00’s) as an RA at a Catholic university. We made checks on guest passes for overnight guests, as a safety thing, but that was only for non-student guests. And we never gave a fuck (or were instructed to give a fuck) about who was, well, fucking.
I want to add it’s not only secular colleges. I’ve attended undergrad/post-grad at a few different religiously-affiliated universities (mostly Catholic Jesuit/Holy Cross), and no one there would even think about kicking someone out for (or even making an issue of) consensual dorm sex. Straight and gay, for that matter.
This! I lived in secular college dorms from 1976-77. This was in Michigan, which isn’t that far from Indiana and has a similar culture and morals, both being states in the US Midwest. We had no restrictions about having sex in our rooms, whether with other students or boyfriends/girlfriends from off-campus. I think we had limits on how long visitors could stay, but that had nothing to do with morality and would apply to friends as well as lovers.
These friends of yours who got kicked out… the ones who took time to turn their life around… probably had had more than a day at this point, right? Because Becky has moved somewhere she can actually stay a bit without getting caught by what she’s escaping again and hasn’t had much time beyond that.
There’s also the weird phrasing of the examples given.
They way IDCNM phrased it, almost sounded like, yeah, here were these people in the worst moments of their lives, homeless and with nothing… yeah, I didn’t really do anything to help them or offer my home in any way so that they could recover and be okay, but I totally watched as they clawed their way to sustaining themselves.
Which I don’t believe is true to what happened (or at least I hope not), but it’s still a rather odd way to phrase the whole “i had gay friends, therefore not homophobic” dance.
There is a big difference in these two situations. Your friend was kicked out by their family, where Becky is currently in hiding from her as well as Joyce’s. Becky needs to be careful that word doesn’t get back to her family and that would make her take things slower in regards to this whole situation.
Becky’s been out–and kicked out of her school–for way less than that. You seem to not be grasping some of the basic facts here and maybe you should check it before you wreck it.
Amber’s Lawful, not Chaotic. For her, there are Rules. Rules for Amber. Rules for Amazi-Girl. Rules for the people around her.
If she were Chaotic, her relationship with Danny would have gone SO MUCH more smoothly.
And I’d place Ruth Neutral on the Ethical axis…she uses rules, but she doesn’t feel the need to live by them, or enforce them on others except when it serves her goals. (I’m a bit more torn on where she fits on the Moral axis. On the one hand, she’s a jerk. On the other, that seems less malicious the more we learn about her. I’d still probably err on the side of Evil, rather than Neutral, since her actions are Evil and her motives are not Good, so it would tend to balance that way.)
But Chaotic isn’t just ‘against the local set of rules’, or else Lawful would be an impossible alignment (or at least Lawful Good would). To use a well-worn example, a Paladin couldn’t campaign in an Evil country without violating part of his alignment, and thus losing his powers, in that case. If you rigidly follow a self-defined ruleset, as Amber does, you are Lawful.
The Lawful in the Alignment axis isn’t really referring to one’s allegiance to law it’s actually about order and stability and discipline. A “lawful” character can totally break the law and still be lawful as long as they remain consistent to whatever code of conduct they do owe their allegiance to be it a personal one or an external one.
He doesn’t strike me as doing evil even when the occasion doesn’t present itself, just being a jerk when the opportunity arise at being a jerk at somebody else’s expense.
It’s not like we have seen him putting the radioactive materials from the chem labs into the cafeteria salt spreaders… Yet.
Joyce: Lawful Good likely making a transition to Neutral Good
Amber: Neutral Good, does what she feels is right whether that means following the rules or breaking them
Mike: Neutral Evil (ie The Asshole Alignment), he doesn’t actually care about breaking rules or personal freedom he just wants to fuck with people for its own sake
Ruth: Neutral Evil, low intensity evil of the just being kind of a selfish jerk variety. Will use or flout the rules as it serves her interests.
Walky: Neutral Good but with more Chaotic leanings. Not enough to actively oppose rules but a distinct lack of regard for discipline or order. Lazy Good.
Ethan & Billie: True Neutral leaning towards Neutral Good, just kind of wants to be left alone but will display keen Good tendencies when put on the spot (Ethan somewhat more readily than Billie).
Sal is like Chaotic Neutral with general Goodish leanings. I haven’t really seen enough of Becky where she’s not in the middle of massive emotional turmoil to pin down her alignment but I think she’s some variety of Good she just needs to get past her issues with jealousy. Carla is Chaotic Jackass which is where people who are too mean to be Neutral but not mean enough to be Evil go.
Not enough information about him to be too sure but probably Lawful Evil he seems to have a pretty strict code of standards for behaviour re: respect, responsibility, and strength it’s just that that code is fucking despicable.
Still a rigid code of standards. Like I said Lawfulness doesn’t require it to be a good code or for it to even be comprehensible to anyone but the one following it all it requires is that they consistently maintain it. Blaine has shown a pretty strict belief in his personal interpretation of the family hierarchy as well as placing a great deal of importance on his idea of strength as a means of determining worth. He displays very rigid and systematic beliefs that are characteristic of Lawfully aligned individuals. It’s just that the systems he prescribes to are Evil abusive garbage.
I’d place Ruth on the Neutral Good axis. She can be nice to people she considers “good” but cruel to those she considers evil, and she mostly lives by her own moral compass when it comes to enforcing rules.
I misread that. For a moment I almost thought that Sarah said ‘sorry’.
…she did, didn’t she? Wow. You know Becky is in a shitty situation when even Sarah doesn’t fault her for it.
Paring back a much longer reply I’d intended, food for thought:
While your gay friend-of-a-friend was able to find a job overnight and move into a cozy furnished pad on his first paycheck (and, sincerely, that is an accomplishment), I think it possible that the current generation faces a few concerns that your friend did not. Consider, for example, the fact that, adjusting for inflation, today’s minimum wage is several dollars short of what it was forty-five years ago. Take into consideration that the population of the United States, and the percentage of that population living below the poverty line have both nearly doubled in that time. Consider the possibility that it may take today’s generation more than a day to acquire a job– that, even at minimum wage, the job market today is extremely competitive. Consider that renting a furnished apartment on the first week’s salary at minimum wage is no longer a feasible option.
That and the housing kind of boomed and refused to go back down again. It’s hard to find/nearly impossible to find apartments that are sustainable to live in on minimum wage and most require first and last month’s rent, a deposit, and a background check that includes good credit and a good renting history.
But yeah, I think this point of how different the modern economy is for young people today is something a lot of older generations are painfully unaware of. You can’t pay for college tuition and living costs for a year on a single summer job anymore. Housing is no longer an easy get. And even entry level minimum wage work is much much harder to come by and often requires months of sending dozens upon dozens of apps. Heck, I’ve seen any number of entry level retail jobs just straight up require a college degree for hiring, even though they pay minimum wage simply because they can request it and its pretty common for even someone tearing themselves apart in an unsustainable and unhealthy amount of job searching to see it take months or even years to get to a position of almost sustainability wherein they are literally surviving on the kindness of family or friends. And safety nets have decreased to the level where any further issue that comes up (car breaking down, health problems, company layoffs, etc…) can often completely throw everything into chaos really fast.
A lot of the kids in the current generation often end up having multiple jobs and sharing 2-3 to a room in order to sustain themselves in the modern day and have to work way harder and with way more skill sets than previous generations to get half as far as previous generations.
And I think that’s really hard for older generations to fully appreciate when their own youth experiences were that a college dropout could walk into a middle-class level job in many cases or sustain an entire apartment and college year on a single summer of minimum wage work. It was certainly the excuse older people gave to treat me like shit when I struggled with my own scares with becoming another queer homeless statistic and definitely what I’ve seen used against any number of the queer friends I knew who were either on the raggedy edge or homeless as well as the current queer kids I mentor for.
Very true. Worth mentioning that the economic woes in this country bite both ends of the age spectrum. Retirees are facing many of the same problems that college graduates are. Pensions are a joke, Social Security is barely adequate, medical costs are as bad or worse than student loan debt, and unless you own a home that’s been paid off housing is just as big an expense. It’s the middle-aged employed population that most fails to understand how grim the situation is for so many people – but every year a few more of them lose their jobs or retire and find out the hard way.
On that note, was Becky able to do any laundry yesterday (in comic time), because otherwise those shorts probably should be burned as biohazard at this point given that they were what she wore during her entire escape.
You know what I dislike about this (and several earlier) comment section? The fact that even the smallest bit of dislike for Becky instantly gets you branded a homophobe who somehow condones her asshole dad.
OK, rant over. Joyce is right. Never think it was you’re fault, Becky. Never do that.
Not at all. But when someone’s first response to someone effectively disowned/made homeless by her own father over her sexuality is “lawl, get a job, moocher” it makes me think they’re a dick.
That would be unreasonable at first, but Becky’s been in mooch mode for what, 3 days now? Plenty of time for her to find a job, get her life back together, maybe even get that first promotion so she’s not getting minimum wage.
Kids today… they just don’t know how to use those bootstraps.
XD Absolutely. I mean, I’ve never been in the position of basically being on my own, no real financial support, with only a high school degree. But I imagine I’d be pulling 6 figures, minimum, by dinner on the second day.
right. so, what you’re saying is that we should all withhold judgment and/or stop reading this comic, and come back in *checks watch* three years, about?
Oopsie. The poem link was intended to go way back at the beginning of today’s comm-usions. Only joking about spurs on Uggs in bed; I ALWAYS obey ALL of the rules. To. The. Letter. I do!
NGL my response to the reveal of that outfit was essentially “Oh, honey D:” Like yes, she 100% has every right to wear whatever she damn well pleases but she’s also a fictional character so I reserve my right to be aghast at costume design that makes my eyes bleed.
Those are the same shorts she was wearing when she showed up. No one complained then.
Admittedly, she was wearing them with a hoodie then and a much shorter outfit now. Still the same shorts though.
*Sigh* so many comment chains that start off with Becky-bashing. Interesting how much some Humans hate other Humans for no reason at all, fictional or real. That’s why I like Australia, lot more getting along here…
It tends to swing back and forth. At first it was all “Becky is the best!”, then when she started (apparently) taking Joyce for granted, (while) deriving amusement from upsetting her, and (deliberately or not) trying to isolate her from her other friends, there was another set of reactions. And now that she (FINALLY) seems to be showing some awareness of how this is all affecting her best friend – thus, IMO, starting to act like a friend – we have both the defenders and the “yeah, actually, it is” bunch fighting it out in comments.
Eventually, I imagine, there will be some sort of consensus or equilibrium. But it may well take months of real time to get there.
Or never. I dunno, when hate comments are this high on a comic where the target of their hate is devastated and full of empathy for her friend(especially with the author coming in and explaining directly why that behavior is dickish), I don’t think there’s a going back. Especially when there are so few supportive (not pushing back against the haters, but earnestly supportive) comments coming through in response to a wholly heart-wrenching moment for anyone who’s been there.
To too many Becky will never do right because she’s the wrong type of victim and people don’t want to think about how many Beckys are on the street.
I’m personally at the point where I think Becky could save a basketful of kittens from a roaring fire and all the comments would be rants about “loudness”, $20, forcing queerness, and so on. Just completely disconnected from the character’s actual actions, just another excuse to hate.
“OMG everyone thinks Becky is a Saintly Saint Who Can Do No Wrong and if you say she’s maybe not super ultra perfect then people will shit on you and say you’re Hitler”
I am starting to worry about what happened last time Sarah had a drama-generating roomie. What’s the impact of Becky’s presence going to be on Sarah’s ability to study, maintain her grades, and keep her scholarship? Is Sarah going to be able to find a gentler solution than she did last time? Is she going to have the resolve necessary to drop another dime? What difference is it going to make that her last roomie needed rescue by her family whereas Becky needs rescue from her family?
And can Joyce work out that she doesn’t have the resources to rescue Becky by herself and that she is going to have to find help?
Nothing is ever Becky’s fault, huh, Joyce? It’s nice of you to accept Becky’s situation, but don’t use it as an excuse to absolve her of all responsibility.
Too good for her own good. In a sense they’re both right, although they still have to really face what’s wrong individually. Becky’s gotta get some self-sufficiency going & tone down the steamrolling before she makes an ass of herself beyond repair. Open book, really, the sass just has a way of distracting you from it.
Joyce, though, I feel she’s throwing herself into one situation or the next in a constant practice of helping people, almost as if to bury what’s tenuous about her own circumstances. She has yet to come to terms that finding that someone special is hardly a walkthrough, as well as her own sense of desire she feels abject shame over, & still wishes for a guy to see her for who she is, to understand her & love her, to heal her of what damage that mongoloid did to her. Regardless of what’s going on with anyone else, for the time being she’s still going through the most, & it’s probably going to play out for a while. Not for plot’s sake, but mainly because that’s how they etch out IRL in my experience.
A lot like real life, however, the lighthearted jokes get you through it.
She’s not saying that nothing will ever be Becky’s fault. She’s saying that “it” will never be Becky’s fault, and in context that’s the situation where Becky is hiding in Joyce’s dorm room and Joyce is lying to her mom. And she’s right. That is not and never will be Becky’s fault.
I actually really liked Becky until she hit on Joyce after being rejected. Everything else she’s done has been pretty justifiable by her background. Eventually she’ll learn not to be rude to Joyce’s friends, especially after they do something nice for her. It’s not her fault she was raised by a jerk and didn’t learn those social skills.
But, and maybe it’s just my asexuality and sex-repulsion here talking, I haven’t been able to get the fact that Becky still references the things she finds sexually attractive about Joyce out of my head. Because when people do that to me, I get nauseous, and I feel very, very small and alone. Unwanted sexual comments are unwanted, regardless of the gender they’re coming from (And before anyone yells at me that I wouldn’t be complaining if it was a guy — I’m romantically gay for the most part. It doesn’t actually make much difference. Even if it was a girl or nonbinary I was attracted to who said something like that when it wasn’t wanted I’d be freaking out). Becky’s references to finding scandalized Joyce a major turn on made me physically ill.
In addition to that, Joyce recently survived a near-rape attempt. She’s currently afraid of men, and I get the feeling she never previously thought that women could be a sexual threat.
Now she might, because even dearest, most trusted best friend of childhood is sexualizing her. I don’t know if Willis even considered it, but that’s a thing that could feasibly happen.
Becky’s got more than a few issues and character flaws to work through, but her situation itself definitely isn’t her fault. What is her fault and needs to be addressed to prevent things from going badly, though, is the fact that being a woman doesn’t make unwanted sexual comments towards a woman okay. Obviously, she didn’t actually mean anything bad by it, but it’s going to continue to kind of quietly freak me out until it’s addressed…
It’s a sad irony that, with all of Becky’s behavior since she got here, it’s this thing that’s the most not-Becky’s-fault that gets her to feel guilty.
Unwanted sexual advances? Nope. Deliberately pushing a boyfriend away (not actually a boyfriend at the time, but Becky didn’t know that)? Nope. Cruel treatment of Joyce’s best friend at the current school? Nope.
Having to lie because both Joyce’s and Becky’s parents are bigoted and likely to try to send Becky to a torture farm for what they call “repairitive therapy”? That’s the one. Becky, that ain’t your fault. But, out of gratitude, you might work on the other stuff.
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Sorry Becky, Sarah’s smile is reserved for starin’ at shapely butts.
inb4 “YOU’RE NOT FIRST”
I just had to change my mind about my post at the last minute huh
You were first reply though.
Then why isn’t she smiling in panel 4?
because that shapely butt is out of sight now
She climbed into bed wearing her Uggs?
You don’t? 😛
Well, no: can’t attach my spurs to Uggs.
Have you really tried? Maybe a stiff material between the outer and inner layers of the back of the Uggs’ heel would help?
It’s obvious, she’s going to “accidentally” drop them on Becky’s head
She’ll probably sleep with them on. She’s in full-on turtle mode, right now – all armors and defenses on. It’s a response to being in pain.
She’s not smiling cause that’s not the type of shapely butt she’s into. That said, many of the rest of us don’t mind it…
She must’ve been an angry baby
She must’ve been an angry child
When she was only startin’
To go to kindergarten
The boys must’ve gotten her riled
Sarah was Born mad and she’s going to die mad.
Let’s try to make the in-between parts as happy as possible, then…
Her other settings are surprise, sarcastic, and mildly annoyed.
…and of cause her yet unseen O-face.
You don’t know that’s not angry, too.
…Oh, God. Did I just suggest the possibility of Sarah/Mike?
Yes I’m afraid you just did… good job!
The hatefucks will be most epic.
…Crap, the most epic hatefuck would be an Amber/Mike/Sarah threesome, wouldn’t it?
Mike: Welp, it’s better than that night-
Amber:shut up Mike!
Sarah: Can you two get done with this drama?
We all know he strip will end with an orgy
Also her very rare sexualy inclined face
Hey, it’s a May avatar today !
No, it’s an April avatar today…
(Or maybe a September avatar, if you’re going by in-strip time.)
Unless you’re making puns : I’m talking about Plasma Mongoose’s avatar. May, from QC
You forgot bat wielding blood rage!
A personal favorite of mine, especially when she brings Old Testament asskicking with which to smite those who have pissed her off.
Old Testament arsekicking best arsekicking.
And amused. Sara can laugh, you know.
Only sarcastically.
Which is OK, I’m just sayin’.
You forgot the “cute boy-butt” face…
Yes Becky, that is Sarah’s default expression. As in, her expression is showing that she thinks this is de fault of YOU.
Yeah, I went with the terrible word play. Sue me. 😛
Expect a summons to arrive tomorrow.
That’s Old Testament God(TM) for you.
It’s not your fault, it’s the San Andreas’ Fault!
Some people claim that there’s a woman to blame…
But I think, “Hell, it could be my fault!”
I feel like it’s probably the margarita’s fault.
It was whoever gave him the blender.
Cracks like this are why you rock Plasma!
Thanks I was fissuring for some geological puns.
You’re welcome, I’m beginning to wonder if you might have an unfair advantage though … you’re not by any chance a Quaker?
Looks like we might have to start digging, see if there’s any dirt involving unfair advantages…
Cause Mr Richter can’t predict her kicking our ass fault. (ANIMANIACS WOOO)
Richter? I hardly knew ‘er!
So Sarah has Resting Blame Face. Good to know.
Also Sarah has no reason to like you or feally anybody so don’t take it personally Becks.
She’d like to feally Jacob, though. Eh? Eh?
Ya she gives that look to every one its hard to be sure about her sometimes.
If Becky were really sorry she’d go get all her hair back and use that 20$ to get a job and immediately find an apartment like she’s clearly able to!
You must be a blast at parties.
Or maybe try to help Joyce a little..?
guys i was being sarcastic
seriously
becky cant actually go get her hair back thats not how it works
I know you’re being sarcastic but it wouldn’t hurt if Becky maybe helped Joyce a little, its not all a one way street
Yes Becky is going through hard times but Becky must also realise the position shes putting Joyce in so the very least she could do is maybe try to help Joyce out just a little
Maybe not be quite so flippant or try taking Joyces fears seriously…
I know most on here think Becky can do no wrong but her actions might lead to Joyce getting removed from college
Maybe wait later than two days after her life went to shit.
There’s not much she can do, anyway. She’s very clearly aware of the burden she places on Joyce (or rather, the burden Joyce voluntarily took on because Becky’s her friend and she loves her), but right now there is no alternative. Either Becky is in this dorm, hiding from her dad and the university staff, or she’s out on the street. There’s no middle ground.
You’re right her life is not good but it won’t get any better if she and Joyce are kicked out of the dorm before she can make any plans at all
3 days.
She has been here for 3 days.
What exactly have you expected her to have done in 3 days time? She got the hair cut for self care. In my culture, cutting hair symbolizes cutting away the past and starting fresh, so honestly I’ve been startled by the backlash. That seemed pretty important to me, and well worth it. Do you think she should also have a job by now? In three days?
Or do you mean she should clean her room, do her laundry, scrub the toilets, and change the sheets?
whoop my 3 days comment sounds rude now, sorry posted that before i saw your post Spencer!
How about keep a lower profile in the dorms so as not to draw attention to the fact you shouldn’t be allowed there in the first place?
Taking Joyces fears might also help ref: Joyces mom on the phone
Because every eighteen year old kid who suddenly becomes homeless is supposed to be intimately familiar with how to avoid detection.
Your childhood must have been hardcore. Like, ninja school shit.
Just wanna say, I’m amused for Walkyverse reasons at your gravatar Penny talking about ninjas.
I was taught how to avoid detection all throughout highschool.
Well yeah, I mean duh, magical leprechauns that fix all problems are like what? $19.95 these days? And they’re conveniently available on every street corner. I mean, really Becky has no real excuse. That $20 could have ended cancer faster than a Robin DeSanto bill!
Ok I should probably point out here (my fault) that by help, I mean emotional help not monetary help
For example Joyce tells her to keep a low profile Becky could keep a lower profile, that kind of thing
Nothing to do with money
I think the “Backlash” comes from the fact that while there’s not much Becky can do right now…she could at least not be a jerk. Something she has struggled with. She’s been a pretty big one most of the time actually.
She’s been there for two days for Christ’s sake. After suddenly becoming homeless with almost no resources. Her choices were to let her father try to “fix” her, move into an alley somewhere, or visit Joyce and then probably end up in an alley.
Staying there wasn’t ever her choice. It was Joyce’s alone. Her choice, her call, and she was well aware of the consequences when she made it.
Get some Goddamn perspective.
One of the most common, and also the hardest, problems for most readers of this comic is to watch young people being realistically ignorant and making poor choices, without ending up hating them all for being young and stupid (and, most likely, reminding us of stuff we did when we were young and stupid).
Can do no wrong, eh.
This is dumbing of age. Everyone’s dumb.
My apologies. I find Becky annoying sometimes, but I also understand (just a little) of what she’s going through. The comments section when she comes up lately has been… disheartening, on occasion.
Nah it’s cool. I thought I was being completely, totally ridiculous, but the Becky hate in the comments is ridiculous enough that what I said could be seen as an unironic post.
Yeah, I fell into that trap before too.
I don’t know, sometimes I feel that we’re developing some version of Poe’s Law here with some of these characters coming in. Call it Becky’s Law I guess.
Yea, I still don’t get the drastic hate for Becky. She might be annoying to some people, but she clearly is Joyces best friend. Teasing Joyce seems to be her way of showing affection and making the mood lighter. And her life is upside down, so you can’t expect her to be calm and rational, especially since she’s a teen.
Also … I had a friendship like Joyce and Becky and I was the Becky. She used to blush over the simplest things which was just so funny. But she knew it was only teasing and not bullying or something like that.
Did you ever ask if it was funny to her?
Like really at the very least she could maybe not actively go out of her way to press Joyce’s buttons just to watch her freak out literally while she’s in the middle of doing her a massive favour that could have very real consequences for her. Though honestly you shouldn’t be doing that to your friends under any circumstances it’s just kind of mean.
I think whether pressing someone’s buttons is mean depends on how they feel about it. I have friendships based solidly on messing with each other to humorous effect. I also have friendships where that’s more or less one sided, in various directions. If it’s done with an eye for what might actually be hurtful, and everyone’s having fun, I figure it’s all good. In this case, having a friendship like this allows Becky to cause Joyce to question some of her ideas in a manner that is lighthearted and probably seems very normal and non-confrontational to her.
Also, Becky and Joyce’s friendship has always been about Becky pushing Joyce’s buttons. Becky and Walky were joking about it together back when Becky first showed up. The problem is that Becky hasn’t been taught healthy ways to express her sexuality and doesn’t know about Ryan, so she can’t tell that “tease Joyce about her pickiness” is okay and won’t make Joyce feel bad about herself and “make Joyce uncomfortable by hitting on her” is very, very bad.
I still wonder, though, if that makes it okay, or if Joyce is just too nice and/or needy of having a best friend to say anything about it.
It’s a very common mode of interaction in Ausralia.
PS: elaborate Chupacabre, like in Girlyyy? If so, your gravatar seems to be a pretty good fit for your name….
Dang SpellWrecker!!!!! Are there no limits to your evil deeds????
Yes from Girlyyy, the gravatar was random, but apt 🙂
Default expression because “de fault” is Becky’s!
Eh? Eh?
You’re Canadian then?
Plasma, I’m wondering if you May be onto something there or not…
Depends on if you think I’m being PC or not…
This comment brought me so much Joyce!
*Stifles a smile and claps you a little too hard on the back*
Resting Accusatory Face.
“Everybody’s done SOMETHING wrong… and I’m blaming them for it.”
Hey! Becky’s exempt from blame, she should take advantage of that before it’s too late.
“Finally, Becky admits it!” —about 20% of the commenters, probably
I’m honestly cringing as I scroll down into the comments, for exactly this reason.
Currently surprised how little of that there is.
Posters on here realise that if you say anything negative towards Becky you’ll get quite few responses telling you you’re wrong and basically heartless
Maybe it just takes a certain amazing level of asshole — in response to a strip in which Becky shows nothing but near-tearful remorse for frightening problems outside of her control — to double down and continue to shit all over her.
Not to name any names.
A lot of people like to point out Becky’s remorse, her break down, and the fact that its been 2 days since her life was “ruined”.
I’d like to point out that we cant REALLY give ANY commentary on Becky. Seeing as she’s been living a lie (not just her sexuality, but the nature of her care for joyce, and even how Christian and religious she is), and also right now she’s on an emotional roller coaster between self hate and finally accepting herself.
Depending on David’s writing (or rather how he chooses to characterize Becky in the future) we dont know what Becky is really like.
(though i think its fair to say she doesnt mind saying controversial things)
P.S. It actually reminds me of in Roomies when people were telling Danny to basically “get over it” not weeks or even months after a certain someone lost her life because of him. Its like “I’m sorry my life being ruined is annoying you!”
“Living a lie” isn’t really a fair description. More like still putting the pieces together. Feels be complex, yo. The stronger they are, the more confusing they can be.
“I don’t like Becky. I think she’s annoying.”
or
“Becky is literally Satan. She should have cloned that 20$ and farted out a perfect resume to go find a job that would instantly pay a six figure salary and land her an awesome penthouse. But instead she’s voluntarily choosing to be poor by not having an emergency plan for when her entire life gets ruined.”
Find the reasonable argument.
DamnThank you Willis!Feels weird to say, doesn’t it? Like it doesn’t want to come out right…
Have you not noticed the remorse Becky has shown? Or do you just skip over that because you want to keep hating her?
Thank you Willis for saying that because holy crap what the hell you guys? And I’m one of the people who has clucked my tongue at some of Becky’s choices! But I don’t hate her. I think she’s a scared child who is trying to make the best of the situation she’s in, and that happens to be bursting out in strange ways.
She’s been here three days and you’re calling her her names. She couldn’t control her situation. She went to Joyce, the only person who MIGHT be willing to help. She was banking on Joyce also being queer, but luckily Joyce wanted to help her out any way. But it seems to me that you’d rather that Becky was on the streets, fending for herself.
Yes. That’s heartless.
I’m not calling her names and I don’t hate Becky (dislike sure) but all I’m saying is she could help Joyce out a little (just a little)
She did help Joyce out. Joyce asked her not to wander around in Joyce’s pajamas, so Becky borrowed clothes from somebody else. She probably shouldn’t have then gone “Look at me!” in the middle of the hallway, granted (I’m not actually sure if it was her or the clothes or Joyce’s reaction to the clothes that attracted attention–it’s morning and nobody was wearing very much). But Joyce pointed out a problem and Becky tried to find a way to fix it.
On a complete tangent based on the sentence “But it seems to me that you’d rather that Becky was on the streets, fending for herself.”:
I think that actually is a thing.
The suffering poor are expected to be suffering on a level completely devoid of even the smallest comfort, convenience, or aid, or else they are relegated to the category of not real victim (see the weird outrage that sprang up when homeless people were given cell phones even though having a phone to be called back is critical for getting a job to not be homeless anymore).
And more importantly, they are expected to suffer off camera where “real people” don’t have to handle the side effects of what the culture produces (see most horrible hate thrown at homeless people even by nominally liberal people and the expectation that they be herded away from places with high traffic of people).
In some ways, it’s very similar to the way queerness is often treated by homophobic organizations, with all the calls for gay people to crawl back in the closet and quietly suffer and never speak up for themselves so that the homophobes don’t have to actually see the side effects of their desire to pretend that gay people don’t actually exist.
It’s a very odd American quirk, that we’d far prefer that things be out of sight and out of thought than actually stop the problem from existing in the first place.
Sadly, not entirely an American thing.
I would actually argue that Canada’s ability to stay in denial is if anything even worse than America’s. Despite everything that has happened with the murdered and missing aboriginal women there is much less of a debate about race than there is over in the US.
I feel that this is partially because a lot of Canadians feel like they don’t have to talk about our problems because they see America’s as so much worse and partially because Canada is an overly polite society which normally is a good thing, but at times like these prevents people from taking a stand for fear of upsetting people.
More like a human thing, yes. Depressingly widespread.
If you have a magic cure all that fixes everything in a matter of days when your entire universe implodes, then by all means, share it.
Yeah.. Becky is just a human like all of us. She has her good points and her bad points. Like all other characters in this comic. Like all of us. Surely even we have done things and have been judged. We are taking things way too seriously in blaming Becky as well as defending her. Let’s just read this comic and enjoy its story and beautiful art work. Thank you Mr. Willis.
It can be okay to dislike her because- say she acts like a dick to people sometimes who don’t deserve it- or her brief interlude of biphobia etc (but she’ll grow up from that last one I think) but it’s not okay I think to say things like an 18 year old who can at last be honest about herself can’t be enthusiastic/is being selfish if she is- or thinking in like three days should already be self sufficient/making steps to be without a small break from not thinking about such scary things.
She’s 18. She’s a kid and the meat of the bad situation is not her fault. It’s her father’s fault.
It’s about unrealistic expectations and how certain commenters (ahem) repeatedly and stubbornly refuse to grasp how Becky’s not just there to fuck up Joyce’s life. You are, in fact, wrong and if not basically heartless, doing a pretty good facsimile thereof.
I need the help of someone talented from this comic’s fandom! I need someone to make a good Blaine mii so I can kick the crap out of him with my Amazi-girl mii brawler! 😀 With the new patch I can share the replay. (I can’t make miis any good, I got amazi-girl from tumblr)
If you do this, you MUST post the video! Make sure it’s as painful as possible. Then add Toe-Dad & Ryan for the next round of victims. I’m sure those’ll get plenty of love…
Becky: “You’re looking at me like I’m breaking the rules.”
Ruth: “Sorry, default expression.”
Becky: “You’re looking at me like you think I’m going to burn in hell for unspecified reasons.”
Mary: “Sorry, default expression.”
Becky: “You’re looking at me like you have no idea how to react to the presence of another human being.”
Dina: “Sorry, default expression.”
Becky: “You’re looking at me like you just put a thousand spiders in my bed.”
Mike: “I did.“
*applause*
And your looking at me with eyes at least 10x as old as your body, Doc.
Default looks are weird.
And you’re… actually, you’re not looking at me. Where are you looking?
…What’s a ‘fourth wall’?
It’s what Linkara sits on top of. You know, from the classic nursery rhyme.
Linkara sat Atop the Fourth Wall
Linkara slipped and had a great fall
All of the Pollos and all of the Nimues
Couldn’t make Frank Miller a decent writer
The End
But Willis thinks he’s a great writer! He even did tributes to him in Shortpacked: http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=183
And you, AgentKeen, are looking at me like… Ow! Headache.
Would you like to be represented by your avatar, or the mirrored sunglass wearing stereotypical agent your username invokes?
Because the whole… both but neither thing that not knowing causes. Now I have a weird mental image due to the metafiction webcomics I was reading earlier…
There should be a warning label.
I gotta admit, every time I see “AgentKeen”, THis comes to mind…
Dina knows how to react to the presence of another human being! She can even offer sympathy via light physical contact when appropriate!
Becky’s got back.
I can’t believe it’s just so round, it’s like, out there, I mean— gross. Look!
She’s just so… Beck!
^_^
Her anaconda don’t want none unless she got buns hun!
That’s it. You brought all of this on yourselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VxV717PRBU
Thanks for that video, now here is my RESPONSE!
I am Screwball, & I approve of these videos… 😛
You keep thinkng you’ve seen it all then something like this pops up.
You know, I wonder what Sarah and Mary think of Each other? They’re nothing alike but the one thing they have in common makes up most of their personality.
You know both being judgmental while one is in the right most of the time and the other being in the wrong.
Mike’s not a cynic, and Sarah’s not a jackhole. Their primary personality traits are not shared,
Sarah and Mary have similarities. Sarah believe everyone is evil, including herself, and everyone should be avoided. Mary believes everyone is evil except herself, and its her duty to punish/inspire everyone until they are more like her.
Sarah doesn’t think everyone’s evil. She just expects everyone to disappoint her in some way.
I’ve always seen Mary as Joyce’s exact opposite
They are both Christian but while Joyce sees the best in everyone Mary uses religion as an excuse to be an ass to people. It seems to be sorta physical too, Joyce has light poofy hair, while Mary has straight dark shire
Another difference is that Sarah,despite believing the worst of people much of the time, still has the ability to care about others, especially if she likes them or believes they’re good or kind people. For instance, cares about Joyce’s welfare and is very protective of her.
On the other hand, Mary cares about no one but herself, and in fact seems to enjoy making trouble for people.
When did Mike become Mary?
When I misread. >_< That's embarrassing.
I don't think MARY and Sarah have a lot in common, either, but, point withdrawn.
That is a terrifying thought.
Mary steps into the bottom of a stairwell, and reaches to the back of her skull. A few minutes later, Mike emerges, still applying his hair gel.
WDF – What de-fault?
Default means the normal state of a thing without outside intervention.
“I’m not your friend, I don’t have to lie to you.”
Its not all Becky’s fault, but sometimes, it is her fault.
Clearly, Becky isn’t perfect. One of the reasons I enjoy this comic so much is because we’re shown that none of these characters are perfect, even if they’re fantastic in various ways.
That being said, you can be the cause of some problems, without being at fault for them. Clearly, Becky going to Joyce for help is causing some difficulties for Joyce. I just don’t see how anyone with half a heart or any empathy can really say it’s her fault.
Agreed. She IS the cause, but it’s not her fault.
The only thing you could possibly say “Yes this is your fault” about is that she made out with another girl.
But it’s the school’s fault that they cracked down on that. It’s her father’s fault for being horrific to her. The better alternative to him was to rough it on the streets. I mean good god, can you imagine?
Becky going to Joyce for help caused this. But it isn’t really her fault that it happened, unless you think she should have closeted herself for 4 years.
If you are the cause of a difficulty, its your fault. Well, that’s how I understand the word. Not thinking things through doesn’t absolve you of responsibility.
Just to clearify. Becky’s father being a douche, not her fault. Becky running from him, not her fault. Becky going to her best friend for help, ignoring her advice and yelling “look at me, look at me!” to everyone…her fault.
…
You know what, whatever on that whole latter… thing. I’m just going to address the first sentence.
No. It’s really possible to have someone be impacted, to have things made difficult because of a situation they carry and because of the person’s proximity to them, and for it not to be that person’s fault.
Most obvious example, rape survivors. They often have PTSD and triggers that directly impact and inconvenience their partners. Their partners often have to be more aware of no-go-zones and may even need to forego whole behaviors they would otherwise enjoy and have a huge aspect of their relationship impacted and made more difficult.
But most… or at least the portion of humanity I would feel safer with would be hard-pressed to blame the survivor for that difficulty, even though they are nominally the “cause”.
It’s the same with survivors of the trauma of this level of homophobia. There’s fallout, both physical and emotional and that impacts friends and loved ones, but that’s not really on the survivor of that.
Which, springboarding off this to talk about something different, Joyce’s insistence on it not being Becky’s fault makes me wonder if Joyce actually internalized the most important nugget to be mined out of Roz’s bullshit from the last class. That it’s not just about individual actions, but systems that directly impact others and make their lives hard and if part of why this is tearing her apart so much is that she’s becoming more and more aware that the systems that raised her and protected her and which she credits for all her morality might be horrendously antiquated and fully invested in the worsening of others lives (like not in a Toe Dad is awful way, but sacrilegious thoughts that the form of Christianity she grew up might not be the strain she supports now.)
So, you’re saying that people aren’t responsible for the phobias that otherers direct at them, and its not their fault if their existence “makes” otherers uncomfortable, AND its not even their fault if major social patterns that marginalize and denigrate and reject them impact their emotions and behavior? Huh? That seems pretty radical, don’t you think?
No. She’s not the cause.
This is all her college’s fault. Her father’s. Her church’s. Not Becky’s. They are the cause.
Not of her rude and unhelpful behaviour which is what Kennerly pretty clearly seems to be referring to. That’s entirely within her control, it’s not her college or her dad’s fault that she’s been rude to all of Joyce’s other friends and drawn as much attention to herself as she can manage. It’s not their fault that she actively goes out of her way to make Joyce uncomfortable. The situation isn’t her fault but how she chooses to act within that context sure as hell is.
None of those things she did has anything to do with Joyce’s distress on this strip. It hasn’t provoked any real problem for Joyce. None whatsoever. If you think it did, please say what problem actually happened because of that. A single example.
Joyce’s mother didn’t call her because Becky was spotted in the hall.
Her answering with a lie wasn’t because of Becky’s new haircut.
Joyce isn’t skipping meals because of Becky being insensitive to Dorothy.
None of this comes from Becky’s attitude. Things would be just a bad for Joyce if Becky were the perfect human being people appear to require her to be.
Yes. (And, Joyce is skipping meals because she doesn’t know about Ramen.)
Or does Ramen violate a Biblical Commandment?
Indeed, I believe that’s covered in Exodus 20:17…
“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s noodles, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s ramen, nor his spahgetti, nor his Pad See Ew, nor his lasagna, nor his chicken noodle soup, nor any noodle dish.”
Oh noes! I am truly a great sinner!!
“it’s not her college or her dad’s fault that she’s been rude to all of Joyce’s other friends”
Yay! An actual character flaw!
Yep, she’s super jealous and prone to being an immature dick because of it, especially to Dorothy who she resents because Joyce and her have one of those friendships that’s almost like a romantic relationship (which bothers not only her feelings of loss for those romantic feelings, but also Becky’s feelings of having lost the best friend spot to her) and Ethan (who she saw as having what she most wanted). It’s petty and a genuine failing of her character and one she struggles with and is not often successful in her internal struggling.
Finally, something directly tied to a real failing on her part rather than something that was dumped on her, related to her sexuality, or echoing Joyce’s character flaw in being scared of Becky’s pride and desire to be true to herself.
If we want to trace the root cause of this entire situation, Becky’s got one other fault: She doesn’t lock the door before having sex.
Seriously, who does that ever, even once? I once lived in a one-bedroom house four miles from the nearest neighbor and we still locked the doors before having sex. Walk-ins are a major mood killer and embarrassing all around. Well, barring certain roleplaying scenarios.
At least that one’s not all on Becky. The other girl could just as well have locked up. So I guess that’s half a fault? 🙂
It certainly was her biggest regret: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/definitely/
Most people (in my experience) make a point of locking the door to their fuckspace, for lack of a better term, due to having been walked in on before, even if they were just masturbating or even in the middle of getting dressed. (There’s also probably the factor of whether or not someone’s an only child; I think that kids with siblings probably tend to learn to guard their privacy more in the process of growing up.) Certainly we can imagine a scenario in which things between Becky and Kaitlin escalated more rapidly than either person expected, and they were in the habit of leaving their dorm room unlocked because of people occasionally dropping in.
@Rich: she wasn’t having sex. She was kissing. Source: David M Willis, down this very comment section.
I’m a cautious old man. Kissing (beyond a casual hello-honey peck on the cheek) is sex to me, and the door gets locked. Even if the plan was just a little necking and a cuddle, you’re never more than ten seconds of impulsive escalation from an X rating.
And yes, I was like that at 18 too. Probably learned behavior. My first dorm had several guys who regarded unexpected entrances as high comedy. Which they are, when they aren’t happening to you. 🙂
Halloween Jack: it’s a pretty good term, but it could be “f-space”?
Rich: OTOH, you seem to have been rational past your years, (or once burned, shy thereafter?), but I think it’s different if you’re a teen who’s been lucky enough not to have been walked in on previously … or discovered in a car in a public park … late at night. OTOH, in my Fresh dorm I once went with a guy back to his room, where his roomie and r’ s girlfriend were already busy; the couple continued what they were doing and I was surprised/embarrassed at first but decided, if they’re ok with the situation I can be too.
HM, could that be misread? In the interests of full disclosure I and my friend were just stopping at his Rom to get something on the way out of the dorm ….
I suspect, since this was apparently first experimentation for both of them, they probably eased their way into it, with neither of them willing to commit up front to the “We’re going to do something naughty” statement of locking the door.
We also don’t know how long they were at it. They could have been interrupted right away and would have locked the door if it went on a few minutes longer. Or they could have been caught up in the moment and not thought of it.
Even back in the college days, I certainly kissed and necked without locking doors. If escalation started, that’s when you get up and lock the door.
Fogel, just living on the same wing as the “comedians” in my dorm that enjoyed bursting into rooms without warning was enough to teach to lock up. Watching the neighbors get invaded was quite enough. The “Lenny and Squiggy” guys (there’s a dated reference) also thought hammering on doors with socks on the knob was hilarious.
You know, the more I think about it, the less funny those two were. How did they survive freshman year again?
As for the rest, I decline to comment on how many times I’ve been bitten over the years. Definitely not shy, though. Just cautious. 🙂
There’s nothing wrong with Becky’s enthusiastic pride with the exception that when you are covertly crashing in your best friends dorm it’s just kind of not cool to risk getting them into a whole mess of trouble by drawing attention to yourself regardless of whether or not the means by which you do so are bad in and of themselves. Like yes, Joyce’s reasons for wanting her to keep a bit more of a lid on it aren’t (or at least they don’t seem to be) about not blowing her cover they’re about her own hangups but that doesn’t mean that that practical and very real reason for why it’s a shitty thing to do doesn’t matter.
I also feel that his behavior is the result of her having been homeschooled, and probably not very well socialized. Possibly the only kid her age for her to hang out with Joyce, who probably was too nice to object if her snark was too extreme or hurtful. Becky probably wasn’t at Anderson long enough to learn how she was coming across to people who hadn’t known her all her life. Now, if she goes on not learning or taking hints, it will be her fault, but hopefully now she’s out among other non-Joyce young people, she’ll learn better ways of interacting.
“This” behavior, not “his”.
The only time that Becky intentionally drew attention to herself in public was when she came out to Walky, Mike and Billie. When she showed off the haircut Joyce was being followed by people. This morning in comic time she merely commented on Billie’s clothes which were drawing attention to Billie not Becky. Most recently Becky showed up in an outfit that showed some skin, and Joyce reacted like she was on the standard board of I Dream of Jeannie where a bellybutton couldn’t be seen on air.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I think every time people go “Oh she’s so loud and terrible at keeping a low profile”.
Becky is actually really good at fading into the background when she’s in the halls alone and was pretty good at finessing her encounter with Ruth, while Joyce was the one to pretty much start nervously laughing about how she totally doesn’t have a secret roommate, ha ha and nearly give it away.
In fact, Joyce’s freakouts over Becky being herself owing to Joyce’s hangups (which isn’t to say Joyce is bad, just that she’s working through a lot of baggage surrounding sexual self-expression, and especially queer self-expression) have been way more attention-drawing and risky to the situation than any of the behavior Becky has exhibited so far.
As you note, pretty much the only time she did the “look at me” thing people complain about was when she had her spree of coming out to the people she had met the previous day.
And I think it’s that particular fact which makes me tend to round that into the general “Becky is at fault or is wrong acting because (reason owing entirely to being queer)” camp.
Especially since they often echo Joyce’s complaints at the time, which were definitely more about her discomfort at Becky being proud and out than any genuine concern about keeping the secret of Becky’s housing situation safe.
Shorter me: Joyce has been shown time and time again to be a much bigger threat to outing the housing situation and ruining it for the both of them than Becky has been.
Sarah is the Bert to Joyce’s Ernie and I love it.
I can see Joyce as the type to sing “Rubber Ducky” but I’m having trouble seeing Sarah as a pigeon lover.
Paperclips, though. She’d totally be into paperclips.
I don’t know, they’re not that likely to take drugs till they affect Sarah’s scores, & don’t care if you’re someone not knowing…
…They do care when you fly through them though. Hate the way they splatter…
I don’t see that. Ernie is obviously the top in their relationship, after all.
Poor Joyce. But…it would have had to happen eventually.
Hmm, Joyce hits her abort, retry, fail point and ends up needing a manual reboot and some time spent shut down. And I thought Ultra Car was the robot of the Walkyverse…
But, on a serious note, this is damnyouwillis feels poison. Joyce just straight up traumatized by her first big step into genuine moral relativism (doing something that’s a “bad” in the worldview she was raised in, because relatively it would not be a greater wrongdoing than telling the truth or even a half-truth) and something she personally despises, because she finally sees the value it can have. She’s having amazing personal growth during all this time, but I worry that the short-term cost may be additional trauma and self-loathing on a mind that is already reeling from it (and this is where I pityingly implore a fictional character to fucking open up to her best friend already and get some emotional support).
And Becky… this has come up both of the last two nights and this morning (in comic time) how much she is blaming herself for all the fallout her terrible situation carries and how little she can stand it when her situation has residual fallout on others (especially the person she loves the most of anybody in the whole world and who she’s carrying the biggest torch for). And there’s no easy fix or simple action to change that, unfortunately and its one of the suckier aspects of being a shat-upon minority group. Seeing the shitty things that hit you leave ricochet damage on those you care about and it can be the hardest parts to live down (I’ve been through my share of shit, but the hardest moments were when people I cared about were hurt by the people trying to hurt me because they dared try to stand up for me or with me or just happened to be there and not fully aware of what I encounter on a daily basis). And it’s really hard not to feel guilty or blame yourself even if you know what is actually responsible for that shittiness.
Fuck, I’m with Bagge from yesterday, I just want to curl into a ball and give them hugs until life stops hurting for the both of them.
I accidentally read the in-parenthesis part of your fifth sentence as “… I pityingly implore a fictional character to fucking open up her best friend…”
Now all I can see is Becky with a surgical mask and a bloody scalpel. I am obviously in need of sleep, but am too frightened to acquire any.
Becky Surgeon Simulator
…And the nightmare fuel is fixed by fond memories of a Rage Quit video! Wow, what a comeback folks, I really thought our team was in for a crushing defeat, but…
Line?
Yeah, maybe I should try watching a sports movie before attempting that joke next time. Goodnight Seattle… err, Hades?
This isn’t the first time we see Joyce having to fracture her sense of morality to get something done, just the most personally painful. Her worst problem right now is not having anyone to talk to about it, who can both sympathize on the same level of morality and keep the source of it all a secret. (Dorothy’s fine for the latter, but not the former. I think she knows… three other people, not including Sarah, who don’t quite qualify but still come close.)
On the other hand, it’s hard to support that view of Becky when the arc has been going out of its way to make clear that there’s probably a couple, if not a few, places for her to get help. They’ve been too wrapped up in their problem to seek them out, probably due to inexperience rather than youth.
Geez… at this point, even something like Mike turning out to have a pretty good idea of what’s going on – and then “helping” – would be better than nothing.
“Her worst problem right now is not having anyone to talk to about it, who can both sympathize on the same level of morality and keep the source of it all a secret. ”
That’s pretty much why I think Becky is the person she needs to talk to. Becky came from the same background and she’s crazy good at keeping a secret when she has a mind to (and having the person she’s over the moon for and who has been her best friend for years and who she thinks she owes everything to open up to her is a damn good incentive for that).
And she’s even in a similar boat though further along in moving away from that particular viewpoint of Christianity.
No, see, it’s the opposite of a good idea to keep it a closed circle. You end up with only a few viewpoints at most that way – and in this case they both come from persecution-happy backgrounds.
An echo chamber is rarely a good source of ideas and progress, but that’s what’s happening here with these two.
I don’t know. She doesn’t really need someone to form consensus with or plan the design of a building. She needs someone to vent all the shit going on in her head to someone who understands.
You really are amazing at this storytelling style. Hopefully you will be honored with awards and freebie toys.
I’m one of those awful people Willis was likely pointing out.
I don’t like Becky.
I feel sorry for her for the shake she got from her fathers reaction, then choosing to run away from home to get away from the ‘change or else’ attitude.
But I do not excuse her attitude and actions since she arrived on Joyce’s doorstep.
My generation had these problems and then some (like the draft boards) as students today: and we didn’t whine about it half so much.
My best friends brother came out to parents and was promptly kicked out of the house at 17. He lied his age and got a job in a gas station the next day (after 12 interviews at every fast food, bakery, etc he could walk to). He slept at friends houses for 2 weeks till he got his first check and then rented a furnished room for almost the entire check. He lived on French bread and peanut butter until he got a bit ahead. He had a dinner party to thank his friends for their help.
A female friend went thru the same scenario.
Neither of them parked themselves on a friend and sat there. Imo, Becky is a leech. She is not a child, she’s legal age.
She may be hurting but, let me tell you why I think her situation IS HER FAULT.
She chose to sleep with another girl in an unlocked room in a dorm that did NOT approve of that.
She chose to run away from home when her father pulled her tuition, rather than facing him and discussing it.
She chose to run away from home without first thinking ahead enough to pack a suitcase after her father picked her up. And running that night.
She chose to be rude to Joyce’s friends. True she is upset so not such a big.
She chose to play stupid and wander the halls -not once but twice- and get herself noted by the RA both times.
Is there anyone on this chat that can tell me that she is so young (ooonly 18) and so stupid that she does not know that if she is caught she will likely get not just her self, but Joyce kicked out of school.
If she gets Joyce kicked out by her irresponsibilty it will be her FAULT.
The only thing that has happened to Becky so far that is not her fault, is being born gay. She has to learn to come to terms with it on her own-this is something no one else can do for her.
She has to learn also, that it is no one else’s responsibility to support her while she acts out.
It’s called growing up.
Been there, done that.
Goddamn kids, get off mah lawn!
The way her parents treat her is totally her fault!
Oh no, wait, the other thing.
It’s also her fault that she failed to instantly resolve all of her problems using all of the lack of any resources at all that she has!
well said, IMO.
okay, now that I look at it again (after posting hastily) there are some points I disagree on, and areas where she didn’t really have other options. but I still think you argued your position well. *shrug*
When you say it is Becky who is the bad person for making out with a girl (she did not sleep with Kaitlin, not that it matters) in a dorm that did not allow it, you are being a bigot. You are blaming the victim of persecution for the way society treats them.
Additionally, you are using your gay acquaintances as weapons to persecute other gay people for their hardships.
And for someone who is yelling at Becky for being “whiny,” you whine on this fucking website every fucking day about her. You write some of the longest posts about her, criticizing every thing she does or doesn’t do, and how she doesn’t match up to the perfect ideal stoic masterhuman in your head who does everything right immediately all the damn time. According to you just now, it is additionally her fault she did not convince her father to not be a terrible father as he was dragging her off to a brainwash camp and also that she didn’t magically produce a suitcase full of all of her belongings at a time when she could not. You are a whiny irrational jackass.
I hope you were better to your gay anecdotes/friends when they were going through their times than you are being right now to this fictional character and to the other real-life people on this board who survived what she is doing now. You’re who needs to grow up.
“and to the other real-life people on this board who survived what she is doing now. ”
See it’s shit like that that keeps making you my favorite webcomic creator.
Same. I relate to Becky in so many ways. It means a lot to me that Willis is calling people out on the irrational hate-fest.
For some people, Becky is the New Danny; nothing she does can be be considered so much as tolerable even when all she does is apologize.
Also, humorous side note: When Becky first reappeared I thought she looked like a Rule 63’d Danny with freckles.
Well for what its worth I just don’t get the danny-hating
Nor do I at the moment, although I suspect I may fall into that camp if the relationship with Dorothy winds up hurting her in the end. Not a character that should suffer more than she already has, what with Helldad and the trauma over the holdup. But preemptively hating him for something that might not happen? No, that would be silly.
How I see Danny: Nice guy who might have some slight religious leanings due to where he grew up (assuming he grew up in indiana)
How other people see Danny: Satan
If Danny is Satan, what does that make Mike?
++1
And this is why David Willis is the freaking man.
David, I’m not trying to be critical of you, have you paused to put Idon’tcarenomore’s comments in perspective? Given that “draft board” reference, he’s at least 70 years old. That’s two or three generations removed from the character he’s criticizing, with a childhood spent in a radically different society and decades to distort and rose-tint memories. I’m only 50 myself and I have to struggle with nostalgic idiocy and childhood bigotries sometimes – and it just gets worse the older you get.
I agree that his arguments are maddening in a lot of ways, but reaching any degree of empathy over the generational divides is difficult at best. Call him for bad behavior, sure, but don’t get angry about it and don’t be surprised if his opinion won’t change. Being open to personal growth is hard for us old folks.
Yeah that’s no excuse sorry.
He’s old, not a time traveler. Not all old people are bigots. And when he was young, not all of his peers were bigots.
My 70 year old grandmother marched for civil rights and went to the south to register black folks to vote. She was fully accepting and loving of me when I came out and would NEVER be as judgmental as this asshole.
There is no “context”, especially not for a man who is attempting to use his gay friends as proof of his lack of bigotry.
Bonus: he’s wrong. It was actually way easier for his friend to find a job that paid enough to make rent. Notice that he was able to live in a FURNISHED apartment on a gas station attendant’s salary.
http://livingwage.mit.edu/states/18
Minimum wage: $7.25. Note that she physically cannot afford to live by herself, even working full time, and remember that it’s incredibly hard to work full time when you’re a minimum wage worker — employers are pretty careful to keep their employees at around 30 hours, so that they can avoid giving them full benefits.
If Becky wants an apartment in the same city as literally the only support she has, she’s also looking at a higher rent than the one listed, more like $600+.
Wages have not even remotely kept up with inflation. We make less right now, and the competition is much higher. Becky will be competing with college graduates for even the shittiest jobs.
I mean, I wasn’t in desperate straits and I did my last minimum wage job search in the early 2000s, but my god did I ever have to apply to way more than just 12 places.
My point wasn’t that he had an excuse, it was that arguing with him is not likely to change his mind. We all ossify in our opinions over time, and almost everyone succumbs to a gradual tide of nostalgia about the good old days (even when they were awful) and memories of how much more together we were as kids than the current generation.
There was a reason that I said his arguments were maddening. They’re very, very wrong in so many ways, not least of which is the economic issues you pointed out. And to me that’s funny, because almost all the folks I know in his generation (my parents’ generation) are struggling with many of the same issues. Housing and other costs of living are expensive for everyone, and many retirees are forced back to work because Social Security and pensions don’t cover their bills. Medical bills can easily cripple any savings they might have, and they tend to be less predictable than student loan payments that so many younger folks are buried under.
And hey, all those desperate older folks? They’re part of the reason kids these days struggle for jobs. They’re competition. The days when most grandparents and great-grandparents could expect to be able to provide some financial support to the younger generations are a thing of the past.
So I think you said a lot of interesting stuff and I’m glad you replied for the economic contribution alone, but I think “they’re unlikely to change their mind” isn’t a great reason to let this kind of toxicity go unchallenged.
I mean, people thanked him for replying. I’m among the group who appreciated hearing it. His response makes these comments feel like a safer place to contribute for us. It’s not always about changing the one guy’s mind; sometimes it’s about the audience not having to see that guy go unchallenged.
(Also keep in mind that per Willis, this guy has been commenting a LOT. A lot a lot. Did Willis reply every time, or was this the proverbial straw?)
“I had it worse” isn’t an excuse to lack empathy.
“I grew up” and “Been there, done that” aren’t excuses to look down with scorn to people still in the process of growing up.
You make *some* valid points but you keep on acting like Becky should act like someone who has had your experiences and your experiences (or anyone’s, for that matter) aren’t universal.
We’ve all messed up, some more than others. But I think in all of our messing up we can say that the person who simply points and says “you messed up” is the the least helpful one.
Because it’s not about looking for the person who’s at FAULT. That leads to what happens in this strip. Becky knows she’s responsible for part of this situation but Joyce is so obsessively trying to shield her that she won’t let her shoulder even part of the responsibility. The result: a part where they’re both feeling completely at fault/responsible for the situation instead where they come together and try to find a realistic solution, asking for outside help if necessary.
You sound like the kind of adult that makes younger people fear asking for help. Because they know they won’t find understanding, they’ll find someone who’ll say “It’s your FAULT” and they already know that.
Here’s my suggestion: stop thinking about what you would do in Becky’s situation with all the things you’ve done and seen people do and think why Becky is doing what she’s doing. Think like a girl who’s only heard about the awful future you’ll have if you choose to live as an out gay person. Think like a girl who’s battling with her identity so much that at the first chance she gets a haircut that makes her feel more comfortable. Think like a girl who came to her best friend (who she loved) hoping she might find a kindred spirit and found one but not in the way she hoped/imagined.
Because no, what Becky’s doing isn’t ideal, but it isn’t unjustified and it isn’t as damning as you make it out to be.
I don’t really think it’s fair to be attacking this poster all that much, because she is not condemning Becky for her orientation or for running away from a situation where she was condemned for it by her parents. The only thing I think a lot of people take issue with is the poster blaming her for getting caught in her dorm room. Many people don’t realize this, but getting caught having any kind of sex in a dorm room is grounds for getting thrown out (at least of the dorm if not the college) – although many choose to turn a blind eye to it. I don’t blame Becky for doing this or getting caught, but I do recognize that some may call that “technically” her fault since she was breaking the rules and should have known the risk.
On that note, Becky IS being rather inconsiderate of the predicament she places Joyce in because she is too loud and conspicuous, risking Joyce and herself getting caught. I feel like someone needs to tell Becky to keep a low profile, at least for a couple weeks so Ruth doesn’t find out. I’m not saying that she should go off and find a place to stay immediately, because you need friends to help you get your feet under you if you are going to strike out on your own. However you say Becky sat on Joyce like a leech, but even your anecdote show that your gay friends had to rely on another friend’s charity to get by (which is no different than Becky wanting help from Joyce, especially since Joyce is her best friend). Plus we have to consider Becky came to Joyce first because she figured they could be in a relationship.
I think a lot of people are also upset that you think she should have planned ahead before running away, but let’s look at this logically. Becky had no time to plan. From the time she was caught, it was get out now. She couldn’t take days to escape, and it’s likely her accounts or income were controlled by her Dad. She’s lucky she had enough cash on her to be able to reach Joyce at all. Becky’s father is no doubt even more extremely conservative than Joyce’s (think of the college Becky went to), there is NO WAY he would have listened to Becky. At best he’s one of those walking dog turds who think if they let someone else say something without interrupting but the entire time don’t give a shit about what’s being said, then they are being “fair” (and that’s at best). It’s good Becky escaped with what she had.
So yes on that note, Becky is probably no different than your past friends in what she’s asking, so she’s not any worse than them. Going to Joyce for help is no different than your friends going to their friends. The only thing I think Becky is really at fault for here is being loud, noisy, and extremely visible in the halls when she shouldn’t be and for drawing additional attention to herself by insulting the few friends Joyce has – not a smart thing to do since one could get angry enough to let Ruth know. Those are things you don’t do when someone else is sticking their neck out for you.
Having sex in the dorms was against the rules at Anderson (a Christian university), but I don’t believe that’s a rule here.
I attended IU, but I never lived in the dorms, so it’s possible that I could have missed out on hearing that one– though, I’d like to point out that sex is nowhere mentioned in the Residence Hall Guide (apart from stating that Sex Offenders aren’t eligable for residency, but that hardly seems relevant). Even if it IS a rule, it kind of seems worth pointing out that Joyce and Becky AREN’T having sex. Universities don’t really kick people out based on rumors and speculation, so.. I think we’re kind of safe on that front. While it might embarass Joyce if her residence hall thinks she’s a lesbian, the bigger issue, I think, isn’t that she might get thrown out for having sex–but that might remember Becky and notice that she’s around. A lot.
The handbook comes back into play on that topic, as the policy on guests is mentioned; apparently, a guest can only stay 4 consecutive nights (Becky has slept there two), and only “once per semester,” unless they’ve been granted special permission by the Residence Manager. There also seems to be a stipulation about guests being registered (a rule that Joyce is most likely skirting to prologue Becky’s stay), and having an escort at all times (a rule that Becky broke when she went to the bathroom down the hall). What punishment Joyce would face if she were found out, I’m not sure–but I don’t think instant expulsion from the University OR dorms seems very likely. Much more likely, Becky would be left to the mercy of the Resident Manager (Asma?).
Finally, there’s also a clause about the privacy and wishes of the roommate taking precedent over any guest. Kind of makes me wonder whether Sarah is actually waiting for Becky to break the 4-night rule before she a.) reports this or b). pulls the ‘I could report this’ card. It seems in her character to play fair by following the rules…
I wasn’t implying people would think Joyce and Becky are having sex. I was looking at the point of “blame” where Becky would have gotten kicked out even if she had been caught having hetero sex. I know when I was in college (a public, state, non-religious, huge one), and I was in a dorm, there were students who (if they were reported having sex by other residents) could be thrown out (even with nothing in the the handbook). One even got brought up on charges of showering with a male, where she tried to point out explicitly there was nothing in the handbook expressly stating that being against the rules. It’s one of those, “we shouldn’t have to print it, it goes without saying – appropriate behavior” things.
The latter one was a good friend of mine, and she told me about it during her sophmore or junior year (happened when she was a freshman) – the school basically required her to move out of their dorms, but allowed her to reapply to them the following year.
In Becky’s school? Probably.
In a real university, pretty damn rarely. They have trouble throwing people out in (alleged) rape cases. If having sex was all it took, that would be enough. (Of course, it would be another incentive not to report since it could lead to both of you being kicked out.)
People keep saying that Becky is being LOUD and because of that also inconsiderate to Joyce’s position, and its rubbing me the wrong way.
The loudest has actually been in when she comes out to Walky and Mike seen here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/justbecky/ and to Billie in the next comic. Joyce is still uncomfortable with homosexuality but that’s not a reason for Becky to be closeted in this new unrepressed environment. In these strips everyone is in the lobby of the dorm, a common area for all so there is no reason to think that Becky doesn’t belong there.
Looking at the next day in storytime which is the third day Becky has been on campus, which is a Saturday (Dina mentions Becky showed up on Thursday here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/jesusgirl/ ). Becky in pajamas comments Billie on the jersey she’s wearing just before Ruth tells Billie to clear out. Upon being asked if she lived in the floor Becky deflects the question with one of her own seen here http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/grab/ and then goes back to Joyce’s room as see in the next comic, and we learns she was using the bathroom as opposed to taking a stroll, and it was bad luck that she encountered Ruth. In this same comic (Gangly) Becky says that nothing says I’m not living with Joyce like wearing a sweater vest everyday. This is a good point on how Joyce’s wardrobe is more likely to get them busted as opposed to using the hall bathroom when the shared one is occupied.
So Becky borrows clothing from Sal, because all of Billie’s clothes are in Ruth’s room. In the comic Barely (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/barely/ ) Joyce (not Becky) makes a scene in part due to the questioning flyer and being able to see Becky’s belly button. We have seen a number of students awake on this Saturday morning so I feel it’s safe to say that it’s most likely after 10am by this point. So it shouldn’t be too out of the ordinary to see non-floor mates walking around.
If Joyce and Becky really want to draw of suspicion that she’s living there all they need to do is lie and say Becky transferred (should still be early enough in the year for this) and is living off campus or in a different dorm or off campus. That should satisfy most of the floor but doesn’t really lead to plot related drama.
So tldr; Becky was loud once in the lobby of the dorm and by mentioning Joyce’s wardrobd will likely bust them Becky is being considerate of the situation. Also Joyce caused the most recent scene with Ruth because Becky was showing skin.
Yup. This.
Which makes it really hard not to interpret the complaints about loudness being more about her pride and her queerness, especially when so often it gets followed up by the usual litany of invented “crimes”.
Oh for goodness sake it is not about her being gay! (For me anyway, I can’t speak for anyone else)
“Many people don’t realize this, but getting caught having any kind of sex in a dorm room is grounds for getting thrown out (at least of the dorm if not the college) – although many choose to turn a blind eye to it.”
That’s not true. I don’t believe it’s been true for any secular college for a very very long time. Heck, even the guest rules don’t tend to be enforced very well. I remember during my time in a dorm a friend’s roommate’s girlfriend came and stayed over for a whole month and most nights the friend was sexiled from the room so they could have sex and the RA basically shrugging about it even though the friend was having to sleep in the study box most nights. And my mom used to have stories of a similar situation when she went to college and having to find a corner of the library to sleep in.
And the Becky thing isn’t even anywhere near the same page as that.
“I feel like someone needs to tell Becky to keep a low profile, at least for a couple weeks so Ruth doesn’t find out.”
It’s worth noting that on her own, she’s actually not bad at deflecting situations (specifically to Ruth): http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/grab/
I can’t speak for today, but of the four schools I attended in the 80s not one of them would have even thought of expelling a student for dorm sex, and extended guest stays were fine as long as there weren’t complaints from the roomies. One year I effectively had a two-bed single because my roommate effectively moved in with his girlfriend (in a woman’s dorm no less – never did find out how he got away with that). Used to rent the spare bed to sexiles so they didn’t have crash in the lounge. Pretty good business, that.
Well that applies to the “turn a blind eye” thing. I moved into my boyfriend’s dorm (from my dorm) my sophmore year. (This was 1999-2000.) Prior to that I hardly knew tons of people who were having sex in the rooms. But like several RAs told me, they have no problem with it as long as no one else has a problem with it. However, if someone else does have a problem then they’ll have a problem. More often than not, the people being “reported” to Housing Admin. were not because of an issue with what they were doing, but because of other “feuds” between those students.
That was supposed to read “hardly knew anyone who wasn’t doing it” and got changed to “knew tons”…just for clarification (wish I could edit my posts)
Oh sure, most RAs are pretty laid back…or lazy, depending on your POV. Playing sex police is no fun at all for anyone, and if they get complaints it tends to be Mutually Assured Destruction for everyone involved. I remember one gal got fed up with her roomies boyfriend and got him banned from sleepovers, but the RA got her kicked out for alcohol violations the very next week.
The only times I can recall dorm sexy times being a problem involved single-sex dorms, and that was mostly because of the shared bathrooms issue. Unisex facilities were not a thing back then, at least at the schools I attended.
I spent three years of my undergrad (early-mid 00’s) as an RA at a Catholic university. We made checks on guest passes for overnight guests, as a safety thing, but that was only for non-student guests. And we never gave a fuck (or were instructed to give a fuck) about who was, well, fucking.
n=1, I know, but still.
I want to add it’s not only secular colleges. I’ve attended undergrad/post-grad at a few different religiously-affiliated universities (mostly Catholic Jesuit/Holy Cross), and no one there would even think about kicking someone out for (or even making an issue of) consensual dorm sex. Straight and gay, for that matter.
This! I lived in secular college dorms from 1976-77. This was in Michigan, which isn’t that far from Indiana and has a similar culture and morals, both being states in the US Midwest. We had no restrictions about having sex in our rooms, whether with other students or boyfriends/girlfriends from off-campus. I think we had limits on how long visitors could stay, but that had nothing to do with morality and would apply to friends as well as lovers.
These friends of yours who got kicked out… the ones who took time to turn their life around… probably had had more than a day at this point, right? Because Becky has moved somewhere she can actually stay a bit without getting caught by what she’s escaping again and hasn’t had much time beyond that.
There’s also the weird phrasing of the examples given.
They way IDCNM phrased it, almost sounded like, yeah, here were these people in the worst moments of their lives, homeless and with nothing… yeah, I didn’t really do anything to help them or offer my home in any way so that they could recover and be okay, but I totally watched as they clawed their way to sustaining themselves.
Which I don’t believe is true to what happened (or at least I hope not), but it’s still a rather odd way to phrase the whole “i had gay friends, therefore not homophobic” dance.
There is a big difference in these two situations. Your friend was kicked out by their family, where Becky is currently in hiding from her as well as Joyce’s. Becky needs to be careful that word doesn’t get back to her family and that would make her take things slower in regards to this whole situation.
He slept at friends houses for 2 weeks
Becky’s been out–and kicked out of her school–for way less than that. You seem to not be grasping some of the basic facts here and maybe you should check it before you wreck it.
“Been there, done that.”
Forgot how dumb teens are (when they ought to be mature adults).
Baby Boomers: Still The Worst Generation
Just in case I get my butt banned for this outpouring: it’s an amazing strip. Loved it all the way from Walky on up.
The alt text has made me think of D&D do I will now rate what I think the Dumbing of age character alignments are
Joyce: Nuetral Good
Amber: chaotic good
Mike:chaotic evil
Mary: Lawful evil
Ruth:lawful nuetral
Billie: true nuetral
Walky: nuetral good
Ethan: Lawful nuetral
Tell me what you think 🙂
Amber’s Lawful, not Chaotic. For her, there are Rules. Rules for Amber. Rules for Amazi-Girl. Rules for the people around her.
If she were Chaotic, her relationship with Danny would have gone SO MUCH more smoothly.
And I’d place Ruth Neutral on the Ethical axis…she uses rules, but she doesn’t feel the need to live by them, or enforce them on others except when it serves her goals. (I’m a bit more torn on where she fits on the Moral axis. On the one hand, she’s a jerk. On the other, that seems less malicious the more we learn about her. I’d still probably err on the side of Evil, rather than Neutral, since her actions are Evil and her motives are not Good, so it would tend to balance that way.)
I put Amber as chaotic because Amazing girl is defiantly against school rules.
But Chaotic isn’t just ‘against the local set of rules’, or else Lawful would be an impossible alignment (or at least Lawful Good would). To use a well-worn example, a Paladin couldn’t campaign in an Evil country without violating part of his alignment, and thus losing his powers, in that case. If you rigidly follow a self-defined ruleset, as Amber does, you are Lawful.
The Lawful in the Alignment axis isn’t really referring to one’s allegiance to law it’s actually about order and stability and discipline. A “lawful” character can totally break the law and still be lawful as long as they remain consistent to whatever code of conduct they do owe their allegiance to be it a personal one or an external one.
@Someone
I would put Mike at Chaotic Lulz :).
He doesn’t strike me as doing evil even when the occasion doesn’t present itself, just being a jerk when the opportunity arise at being a jerk at somebody else’s expense.
It’s not like we have seen him putting the radioactive materials from the chem labs into the cafeteria salt spreaders… Yet.
Joyce: Lawful Good likely making a transition to Neutral Good
Amber: Neutral Good, does what she feels is right whether that means following the rules or breaking them
Mike: Neutral Evil (ie The Asshole Alignment), he doesn’t actually care about breaking rules or personal freedom he just wants to fuck with people for its own sake
Ruth: Neutral Evil, low intensity evil of the just being kind of a selfish jerk variety. Will use or flout the rules as it serves her interests.
Walky: Neutral Good but with more Chaotic leanings. Not enough to actively oppose rules but a distinct lack of regard for discipline or order. Lazy Good.
Ethan & Billie: True Neutral leaning towards Neutral Good, just kind of wants to be left alone but will display keen Good tendencies when put on the spot (Ethan somewhat more readily than Billie).
I feel we need a chaotic neutral here. What do you think? Becky? Carla? Sal?
Sal is like Chaotic Neutral with general Goodish leanings. I haven’t really seen enough of Becky where she’s not in the middle of massive emotional turmoil to pin down her alignment but I think she’s some variety of Good she just needs to get past her issues with jealousy. Carla is Chaotic Jackass which is where people who are too mean to be Neutral but not mean enough to be Evil go.
What alligment do you think Blain would be
Not enough information about him to be too sure but probably Lawful Evil he seems to have a pretty strict code of standards for behaviour re: respect, responsibility, and strength it’s just that that code is fucking despicable.
It’s not that he believes in respecting people, it’s that he wants everyone to respect him.
Still a rigid code of standards. Like I said Lawfulness doesn’t require it to be a good code or for it to even be comprehensible to anyone but the one following it all it requires is that they consistently maintain it. Blaine has shown a pretty strict belief in his personal interpretation of the family hierarchy as well as placing a great deal of importance on his idea of strength as a means of determining worth. He displays very rigid and systematic beliefs that are characteristic of Lawfully aligned individuals. It’s just that the systems he prescribes to are Evil abusive garbage.
I’d place Ruth on the Neutral Good axis. She can be nice to people she considers “good” but cruel to those she considers evil, and she mostly lives by her own moral compass when it comes to enforcing rules.
W-wait… did Sarah just say sorry? Did she seriously just apologise to someone?! Battle station people! We have aliens!
I misread that. For a moment I almost thought that Sarah said ‘sorry’.
…she did, didn’t she? Wow. You know Becky is in a shitty situation when even Sarah doesn’t fault her for it.
Poor Joyce, poor Becky.
Ah yes, the ever-horrible “resting-it’s-all-your-fault-face”
Paring back a much longer reply I’d intended, food for thought:
While your gay friend-of-a-friend was able to find a job overnight and move into a cozy furnished pad on his first paycheck (and, sincerely, that is an accomplishment), I think it possible that the current generation faces a few concerns that your friend did not. Consider, for example, the fact that, adjusting for inflation, today’s minimum wage is several dollars short of what it was forty-five years ago. Take into consideration that the population of the United States, and the percentage of that population living below the poverty line have both nearly doubled in that time. Consider the possibility that it may take today’s generation more than a day to acquire a job– that, even at minimum wage, the job market today is extremely competitive. Consider that renting a furnished apartment on the first week’s salary at minimum wage is no longer a feasible option.
So sorry, that was meant in reply to Idon’tcarenomore, which is.. probably obvious? <_<
That and the housing kind of boomed and refused to go back down again. It’s hard to find/nearly impossible to find apartments that are sustainable to live in on minimum wage and most require first and last month’s rent, a deposit, and a background check that includes good credit and a good renting history.
But yeah, I think this point of how different the modern economy is for young people today is something a lot of older generations are painfully unaware of. You can’t pay for college tuition and living costs for a year on a single summer job anymore. Housing is no longer an easy get. And even entry level minimum wage work is much much harder to come by and often requires months of sending dozens upon dozens of apps. Heck, I’ve seen any number of entry level retail jobs just straight up require a college degree for hiring, even though they pay minimum wage simply because they can request it and its pretty common for even someone tearing themselves apart in an unsustainable and unhealthy amount of job searching to see it take months or even years to get to a position of almost sustainability wherein they are literally surviving on the kindness of family or friends. And safety nets have decreased to the level where any further issue that comes up (car breaking down, health problems, company layoffs, etc…) can often completely throw everything into chaos really fast.
A lot of the kids in the current generation often end up having multiple jobs and sharing 2-3 to a room in order to sustain themselves in the modern day and have to work way harder and with way more skill sets than previous generations to get half as far as previous generations.
And I think that’s really hard for older generations to fully appreciate when their own youth experiences were that a college dropout could walk into a middle-class level job in many cases or sustain an entire apartment and college year on a single summer of minimum wage work. It was certainly the excuse older people gave to treat me like shit when I struggled with my own scares with becoming another queer homeless statistic and definitely what I’ve seen used against any number of the queer friends I knew who were either on the raggedy edge or homeless as well as the current queer kids I mentor for.
Very true. Worth mentioning that the economic woes in this country bite both ends of the age spectrum. Retirees are facing many of the same problems that college graduates are. Pensions are a joke, Social Security is barely adequate, medical costs are as bad or worse than student loan debt, and unless you own a home that’s been paid off housing is just as big an expense. It’s the middle-aged employed population that most fails to understand how grim the situation is for so many people – but every year a few more of them lose their jobs or retire and find out the hard way.
True, true.
Joyyyce don’t get on your bed with boots on, what’s with that
Also.. Sarah’s totally thinking it, but she sure ain’t saying it right now.
OK, I can’t let it pass any more… Becky, you look absolutely ridiculous.
It’s the shorts.
On that note, was Becky able to do any laundry yesterday (in comic time), because otherwise those shorts probably should be burned as biohazard at this point given that they were what she wore during her entire escape.
You know what I dislike about this (and several earlier) comment section? The fact that even the smallest bit of dislike for Becky instantly gets you branded a homophobe who somehow condones her asshole dad.
OK, rant over. Joyce is right. Never think it was you’re fault, Becky. Never do that.
The fact that even the smallest bit of dislike for Becky instantly gets you branded a homophobe who somehow condones her asshole dad.
Hmm, no.
Not at all. But when someone’s first response to someone effectively disowned/made homeless by her own father over her sexuality is “lawl, get a job, moocher” it makes me think they’re a dick.
That would be unreasonable at first, but Becky’s been in mooch mode for what, 3 days now? Plenty of time for her to find a job, get her life back together, maybe even get that first promotion so she’s not getting minimum wage.
Kids today… they just don’t know how to use those bootstraps.
Oh, but tell kids that these days…
XD Absolutely. I mean, I’ve never been in the position of basically being on my own, no real financial support, with only a high school degree. But I imagine I’d be pulling 6 figures, minimum, by dinner on the second day.
right. so, what you’re saying is that we should all withhold judgment and/or stop reading this comic, and come back in *checks watch* three years, about?
Well sure, put since you’d be getting paid in dongs, that’s not saying much.
What? It’s not my fault Viet Nam has a bad exchange rate and a funny-in-English name on their currency.
wow her expression reminds me of terminator
Poem: “No spurs in bed” http://www.scrapbook.com/poems/doc/36201/106.html
Oopsie. The poem link was intended to go way back at the beginning of today’s comm-usions. Only joking about spurs on Uggs in bed; I ALWAYS obey ALL of the rules. To. The. Letter. I do!
God those shorts are super unattractive
Wow your avatar is appropriate there
NGL my response to the reveal of that outfit was essentially “Oh, honey D:” Like yes, she 100% has every right to wear whatever she damn well pleases but she’s also a fictional character so I reserve my right to be aghast at costume design that makes my eyes bleed.
Those are the same shorts she was wearing when she showed up. No one complained then.
Admittedly, she was wearing them with a hoodie then and a much shorter outfit now. Still the same shorts though.
*Sigh* so many comment chains that start off with Becky-bashing. Interesting how much some Humans hate other Humans for no reason at all, fictional or real. That’s why I like Australia, lot more getting along here…
It tends to swing back and forth. At first it was all “Becky is the best!”, then when she started (apparently) taking Joyce for granted, (while) deriving amusement from upsetting her, and (deliberately or not) trying to isolate her from her other friends, there was another set of reactions. And now that she (FINALLY) seems to be showing some awareness of how this is all affecting her best friend – thus, IMO, starting to act like a friend – we have both the defenders and the “yeah, actually, it is” bunch fighting it out in comments.
Eventually, I imagine, there will be some sort of consensus or equilibrium. But it may well take months of real time to get there.
I know, fair enough, gonna be a while for that balance tho. Maybe longer than a few months…
Or never. I dunno, when hate comments are this high on a comic where the target of their hate is devastated and full of empathy for her friend(especially with the author coming in and explaining directly why that behavior is dickish), I don’t think there’s a going back. Especially when there are so few supportive (not pushing back against the haters, but earnestly supportive) comments coming through in response to a wholly heart-wrenching moment for anyone who’s been there.
To too many Becky will never do right because she’s the wrong type of victim and people don’t want to think about how many Beckys are on the street.
I’m personally at the point where I think Becky could save a basketful of kittens from a roaring fire and all the comments would be rants about “loudness”, $20, forcing queerness, and so on. Just completely disconnected from the character’s actual actions, just another excuse to hate.
“OMG everyone thinks Becky is a Saintly Saint Who Can Do No Wrong and if you say she’s maybe not super ultra perfect then people will shit on you and say you’re Hitler”
*grooooan*
Wow, we seem to have reached the backlash against the backlash stage in the comments.
And I just added yet another meta layer. Oh well.
And the pendulum continues to swing.
I am starting to worry about what happened last time Sarah had a drama-generating roomie. What’s the impact of Becky’s presence going to be on Sarah’s ability to study, maintain her grades, and keep her scholarship? Is Sarah going to be able to find a gentler solution than she did last time? Is she going to have the resolve necessary to drop another dime? What difference is it going to make that her last roomie needed rescue by her family whereas Becky needs rescue from her family?
And can Joyce work out that she doesn’t have the resources to rescue Becky by herself and that she is going to have to find help?
Joyce deliberately stayed away from her room last night to give Sarah her space. She even offered to leave again if Sarah needed more time to study.
Nothing is ever Becky’s fault, huh, Joyce? It’s nice of you to accept Becky’s situation, but don’t use it as an excuse to absolve her of all responsibility.
Don’t use a statement uttered in an emotional moment as a blanket statement of intent.
Too good for her own good. In a sense they’re both right, although they still have to really face what’s wrong individually. Becky’s gotta get some self-sufficiency going & tone down the steamrolling before she makes an ass of herself beyond repair. Open book, really, the sass just has a way of distracting you from it.
Joyce, though, I feel she’s throwing herself into one situation or the next in a constant practice of helping people, almost as if to bury what’s tenuous about her own circumstances. She has yet to come to terms that finding that someone special is hardly a walkthrough, as well as her own sense of desire she feels abject shame over, & still wishes for a guy to see her for who she is, to understand her & love her, to heal her of what damage that mongoloid did to her. Regardless of what’s going on with anyone else, for the time being she’s still going through the most, & it’s probably going to play out for a while. Not for plot’s sake, but mainly because that’s how they etch out IRL in my experience.
A lot like real life, however, the lighthearted jokes get you through it.
As well as what you can cook with potatoes. Always handy.
also very well said (IMO).
Beck trying to get Joyce to blame her gets extreme:
Beck-Joyce, I killed all your friends!
Joyce-I understand what your going through.
Becky: Goshdangit Joyce
(note this is a joke, I’m not saying that Becky has done anything wrong)
Joyce, I feel like saying that nothing will *ever* be Becky’s fault tempts Fate to make something pretty clearly Becky’s fault . . .
She’s not saying that nothing will ever be Becky’s fault. She’s saying that “it” will never be Becky’s fault, and in context that’s the situation where Becky is hiding in Joyce’s dorm room and Joyce is lying to her mom. And she’s right. That is not and never will be Becky’s fault.
I actually really liked Becky until she hit on Joyce after being rejected. Everything else she’s done has been pretty justifiable by her background. Eventually she’ll learn not to be rude to Joyce’s friends, especially after they do something nice for her. It’s not her fault she was raised by a jerk and didn’t learn those social skills.
But, and maybe it’s just my asexuality and sex-repulsion here talking, I haven’t been able to get the fact that Becky still references the things she finds sexually attractive about Joyce out of my head. Because when people do that to me, I get nauseous, and I feel very, very small and alone. Unwanted sexual comments are unwanted, regardless of the gender they’re coming from (And before anyone yells at me that I wouldn’t be complaining if it was a guy — I’m romantically gay for the most part. It doesn’t actually make much difference. Even if it was a girl or nonbinary I was attracted to who said something like that when it wasn’t wanted I’d be freaking out). Becky’s references to finding scandalized Joyce a major turn on made me physically ill.
In addition to that, Joyce recently survived a near-rape attempt. She’s currently afraid of men, and I get the feeling she never previously thought that women could be a sexual threat.
Now she might, because even dearest, most trusted best friend of childhood is sexualizing her. I don’t know if Willis even considered it, but that’s a thing that could feasibly happen.
Becky’s got more than a few issues and character flaws to work through, but her situation itself definitely isn’t her fault. What is her fault and needs to be addressed to prevent things from going badly, though, is the fact that being a woman doesn’t make unwanted sexual comments towards a woman okay. Obviously, she didn’t actually mean anything bad by it, but it’s going to continue to kind of quietly freak me out until it’s addressed…
It’s a sad irony that, with all of Becky’s behavior since she got here, it’s this thing that’s the most not-Becky’s-fault that gets her to feel guilty.
Unwanted sexual advances? Nope. Deliberately pushing a boyfriend away (not actually a boyfriend at the time, but Becky didn’t know that)? Nope. Cruel treatment of Joyce’s best friend at the current school? Nope.
Having to lie because both Joyce’s and Becky’s parents are bigoted and likely to try to send Becky to a torture farm for what they call “repairitive therapy”? That’s the one. Becky, that ain’t your fault. But, out of gratitude, you might work on the other stuff.
Folks are just friggin’ making up shit now.