“Hear me, people! God has given me fifteen rules by which to live your-”
*Drops a slate on the ground*
“Uhhh, ten, ten rules by which to live your life.”
It’s like the Big 10 Conference, which is up to 14 members. (Which is pretty funny, since the member universities are all highly rated, but evidently can’t do simple arithmetic.)
There was sixth book, but it was written by a different author so whether it counts or not is open to debate. Adams has been dead for almost 15 years now, so the odds of him writing more himself are pretty low. Then again, mortality didn’t slow Asimov down much, did it? Never can tell with scifi writers.
It wasn’t terrible by a long shot… I personally enjoy Eoin Colfers other works though.
Was it the exact same kind of story as the previous books? No, and that’s honestly what kept it from being bad. If the book had been written attempting to make it feel as if it was written by Douglas Adams it would have been very terrible, so he opted for a different approach using similar themes and the general setting and such to write a book that wrapped up some of the points and did it as best he could without channeling the ghost of Douglas Adams.
I liked it, except for the ending… It felt unfufilling
The last two were both weird, and they were mostly weird in the same way. And in a different way than the rest were weird,
So I sometimes like to think of the series as ending just prior to those two
I’m not saying eoin did a bad job, because he was working from notes left by the guy and long talks between the two of them
I’m saying the story was going in a weird direction before he officially took the reigns
Exodus 20 starts with a group of ten, which most people take as “the ten commandments” because they fail reading comprehension. Thing is, that list of ten continues just after into a much larger list. The group in exodus 34 is actually a set of ten, and it’s the only list that is actually referred to explicitly as “the ten commandments”.
Catholics combine “Don’t worship other Gods” and “Don’t make idols,” whereas Protestants combine “Don’t covet your neighbor’s goods” and “don’t covet you neighbor’s wife”
Yes, and yours mesh perfectly today. It would be interesting the gravatar for each comment were sealed when the comment was made, so people looking throgh the archives would see your changing gravatars as they read—I know that you’ve helpfully provided a webpage to show us your gravatars (thanks for that, by the way!), but I just think it would be hilarious for someone to read through this comic for the first time, and get mildly confused by the changing gravatars as they archive binged. Is that strange? Some people say the things that amuse me are strange….
When I started reading DoA about half a year ago, I marathoned through them in a week including the top half of the comments(which was at least half the fun. I still got a smile on my faaaaace)
It was always nice seeing someone comment about your grav(which I couldn’t see :-(. )
PM’ s gravatars are kaleidoscopic: you have 24 hours to see today’s grav before the midnight transformation. I’ve not reread the DoA archive, but as I discover new comics on whose archives I binge, I’ve more than once come across comments that Plasma Mongoose posted years ago, pinned to a grav that I recognize as “today’s” because I read DoA first each day. It’s fun to come across old posts by PM and other DoA regulars on the sites of comics I’ve just discovered–they’re like, “X was here” messages left by previous explorers. Plasma’ s posts are extra cool because their text might be years old, but their gravs are always today’s. They give me this sense of a webcomic comment/discussion hyperspace: each day Plasma Mongoose posts a new grav, which then propagates almost instantly across the archives of multiple comics; its like quantum entanglement!
There’s one that’s like, if 2 guys are fighting and the wife of one reaches in and grabs her husband’s opponent by his Go Forth & Be Fruitfuls, thou shalt amputate her arm/hand. I’ve always wondered whether there were actually a lot of ladies doing that back then OR they we were really nervous about the women and put it in ‘just in case’/’better safe than sorry’.
Perhaps the single largest struggle in the history of mankind has been the attempt to stop women from grabbing balls.
Since time immemorial, man has been terrorized by woman. Woman could simply grab his balls and have him, well, by the balls. Anthropology shows us that hunter gather cultures see an excess of 10% of the population engaging in ball-grabbing every day.
Like, “what’s your favorite Bible passage?”, eh. It’s a good check on who’s actually read The Good Book. When I came on that the first time it stopped me dead for an instant before I fell on the floor roaring with laughter. Sometimes I still wonder, did I really read that or just imagine it …
I know we’re trying to be all like “WOO YEAH JOYCE break free of your fundie upbringing” and all, but there are things like “don’t steal” and “don’t kill” and in there, too…
The day Joyce hails Buddha, murders someone, or has premarital hanky-panky with Walky is the day Satan finds out he’s pregnant with Tom Cruise’s child.
However, she could still end up saying “goddammit” at some point, or stealing something (for Becky). She kind of already wants things other people have, she might skip Church one Sunday, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s building a shrine to Sal right now.
Buddha never claimed he was a god or prophet, but he did claim to have understood the nature of the universe absolutely and provided a guide to spiritual fulfillment. So I’d say the classification of Buddhism as a religion is completely accurate.
Knowing Walky it was probably a duplicate in his collection anyway.
Whenever I start collecting stuff I always end up with three or four really junk cards/figures/whatever that I can’t trade away.
Nor sure how many commandments I qualify for. However, I’ve tried all seven of the deadly sins, and the only one I have any aptitude for is Sloth.
That has to count for something, right? I might never be a saint, but at least I can be a lousy sinner. I suppose I could try harder, but again, Sloth.
Hell, I’m a fan of all seven!
In seriousness, though, I don’t see much merit in envy. All the others have a lot going for them, but envy offers no benefit that isn’t already covered by pride & avarice.
(Roll eyes) Yes, Becky forcing so much on to Joyce by being gay, homeless and in need. Yup.
I’d have a lot more patience for the people who say they have totally reasonable reasons for hating Becky if so many of the anti-Becky brigade didn’t seem to think that being a homeless queer youth was one of the strikes against her moral character.
I really don’t read anti-Becky attitude in Steven’s post. I think it is a spot-on description of what goes on in Becky’s mind.
Of course she feels guilt about being a burden for Joyce, just like Joyce feels guilt for doing enough to support Becky, regardless of if it’s “objectively” true or not.
I like Becky, but yeah, she does force all that on Joyce. Of course she needs help, and she has every right to ask for it and get it. And right now her only way to get it, it’s Joyce. Meaning, that Joyce is standing in a very uncomfortable position between her upbringing and Becky’s safety.
It’s not that Becky is “gay, homeless and in need” the hardest part on Joyce, it’s the obligation to act against her own moral rules in order to protect her best friend. It’s the right thing to do and she knows it, but a part of her mind still screams it’s wrong.
Hey hey hey, take it easy. Steven wasn’t necessarily disapproving of Becky’s actions, just speculating that she feels guilty for forcing a burden on her best friend. Hell, I’d feel guilty if I were in Becky’s place, regardless of how unjustly I’d been forced into such a situation.
Ok yeah, reading it a second time, I can see that and it’s something I agree with. She definitely rips herself apart with the guilt of the second-hand damage her situation brings with her.
I think I just reacted to the phrasing of it as “she has forced” rather than “she feels she has forced” especially as there seems to be a number of people who really do think that someone in a shitty situation existing and that shitty situation having an impact as forcing that situation on Joyce.
I think it’s the fact that she came to Joyce with her problems knowing that it would be a burden to her. I mean I like Becky but she hasn’t exactly made helping her easy for Joyce
Wait, what. How is what I said Anti-Becky, if anything it’s pro-Becky. If I was homeless and a friend took me in for nothing but was then forced to lie to their parents and risk getting in trouble I would feel pretty bad.
Sorry if I sounded accusatory, I only met that by taking in Becky, the act came with a lot of unexpected burden for Joyce and that of course as a good friend Becky would feel bad about it.
Yeah, sorry I didn’t read the feeling crap interpretation my first pass. So, earmest apologies there.
On point, I fully agree. It’s pretty clear that even though it’s not really her fault per se that a shitty situation got dumped on her, it was pretty clear at the sushi dinner that the fact that her situation nonetheless has impact on others eats her up pretty fierce inside.
I don’t think we have the bribing option anymore. But yeah, confession helps.
But wasn’t it the general idea anyway, that nobody’s going to really pass the test, but we all hope that the teacher sees that we tried and worked real hard and thus is going to be mercyful and let us pass anyway?
Yes, but now you have to convince all the overachievers and curve breakers in fundie land, because they seem to have forgotten. (spoilers: they still don’t pass the test)
…Okay, I think this metaphor’s at the end of its rope.
In all seriousness, though, the method of salvation in regards to works vs faith was a major point of contention in the early church (as in first generation early). Peter and Paul repeatedly butted heads on the issue. That said, the works they were concerned about would be almost unrecognizable compared to the “Christian behavior” that modern fundies adhere to, so meh. (See: every time Historical Jesus starts getting preachy in SP!)
That’s the only one that I can honestly say I’ve never broken without resorting to technicalities.
(Like: Technically, as an atheist, I don’t have any other gods before YHWH… or after Him, or even Him; or: technically, her husband wasn’t my neighbor… (which doesn’t get me out of #7, anyway))
Uranium? Volatile? Unless you’ve melted some uranium, that’s one thing you don’t have to worry about with that metal. And if you have melted uranium, you’re either running like hell or already dead.
No, you can have slaves of all sorts according to the Bible.
However, if it’s a Jewish slave you’re supposed to let them go after seven years… unless you got your slave a wife and he doesn’t want to leave his wife and kids. In that case you can just nail his ear to a doorpost and then you get to keep him forever and your kids will inherit him and his family as well.
So… yeah. This is the book some people claim is “moral”.
I fail to see anything “radically liberal” about their slavery policy of: you can own another human being, but if that being is a Jew then you have to trick them into remaining your slave.
False witness is one of those ambiguous terms. The classical Hebrew uses the intensive voice (IIRC,) which would mean something more like “You shall not commit perjury ,” just as “You shall not kill” really means “You shall not kill (someone else with intent),” which comes very close to “You shall not commit first degree murder.” Each of them doesn’t translate to English well.)
The 10 commandments are mostly bullshit anyway. You have one set of ten, which then bleeds into a larger set, and then those get destroyed and God gives them “the same commandments” later and they’re not -actually- the same, and they’re mostly about how you flavor your bread and what holidays you observe. And the second set is the one -actually- called “The Ten Commandments”. But really, even if you go by the original set, most of them range from useless to awful, when you consider what potential commandments didn’t make the cut.
No, no she is not. There is no metric where that was a good, convincing lie. It’s just better than might be expected from her given lack of experience. She doesn’t ask questions about why her mother is looking for Becky. If the “yeahs” are in response to hearing about the situation from Becky’s parents’ POV, she’s awfully calm and unquestioning. Be interested to see if her parents are suspicious enough to check up on it.
My school did, except we multiplied everything by 3. So a B- would be *does math* 8 points.
An A+ was not worth more than an A though. That was annoying.
Anything below 8 was failing in freshman and sophomore year, anything below 12 was failing for juniors and seniors. Anything 16+ was some type of A-equivalent.
???So for jrs & srs over 55%of the grades, ie 0–11, were some level of failing??? Did these grades have names, like, maybe Double Plus Really Really Failing (get your name and course wrong on the final) through Oh Too Bad You Just Missed Passing Why Don’t You Retake The Course?
I had a teacher once who never gave an A+ grade because “A+ means perfect, and there’s only one person who is perfect, and that’s neither you nor me.” She was talking about Jesus. Mind you, this was a PUBLIC SCHOOL. A public school in rural Iowa. *shrug*
Getting “the D” didn’t help Sal beyond sexual relief, if you’re referring to her attempt at quid pro quo. Am I using the phrase right? “Tit for tat” might be better here…
Yeah, also Joyce cut the call short. I’m sure they would have got to missing friends and satanist phone-stealers eventually.
Also, we are not exactly sure how much the Browns know. I assume Toedad might want to lay low with the whole “my daughter is a lesbian-who-is-going-to-hell and has run away”-thing. He might have just asked them casually, “oh, have Joyce heard from Becky lately – you know how children never tell you anything and I wonder how she is doing”
It increases the risk for tragic misunderstandings where everyone think they do the “right thing”. And it paints ToeDad as desperate and increases the risk that he does something stupid and violent and horrible.
I got the distinct impression that between those ‘yeah’s Joyce’s Mom was doing a lot of talking, and not saying things that Joyce agreed with – look at her face in the last panel, she’s pissed. She was probably saying that Becky’s a sinner now, and that Joyce should shun her, or something along those lines. Joyce ended the call early so she wouldn’t lose her temper and get into a shouting match with her mom.
Yup, Becky is pretty much doomed. It’s just a matter of when that hammer drops and how much damage Joyce and the accumulated friend pool will do to try and stop the hammer from dropping. However it plays out though, there’s definitely going to be an avalanche of Damn You Willis moments.
Who’s to say she didn’t? There’s nothing in Joyce’s side of the conversation to suggest her mother didn’t bring up Becky’s status as “missing abomination” Sure, her mother might have thought it would have frazzled her, but we know it wouldn’t have, and Mrs. Brown isn’t known for her tact. I read the whole “ending the conversation early” part as Joyce just not wanting to deal with her mother again, especially after she defended Dorothy to them.
From what I remember from my fundie friends in HS, there’s no such thing as abusive parents who are truly members of the Church and not fallen sinner type people. So if a parent is being abusive, they are just showing tough love and the full showing of their devotion. Man, I do not miss living in Fundieville.
And then the Lord said unto Moses, “Thou shalt wipe thy dirty arse, not once, but at least twice, and useth a baby wipe to maketh sure thine taint is clean!”
Her parents for the most part are better then they could be, they are in no means perfect but they aren’t abusive, they can respect Joyce’s choice to have an atheist friend and they are better then Becky’s father.
Yeah, I guess that’s true. I just don’t like assholes. Now that I think about it though, I’m kind of an asshole, which makes me a hypocrite. Yet I hate hypocrites way more than I dislike assholes, meanwhile I don’t hate myself. So that makes me a really huge hypocrite. I suddenly feel dizzy from this.
Hey now, those poor lions ought to taken to a vet for treatment right away. Rabies is a very serious disease and the deaths it causes are absolutely horrific. If you want the Helldads to get rabies, you can just inject them with it yourself.
Becky and Joyce are having some complicated times. I don’t think Becky’s atheist, or at the very least has not professed to be, but certainly she’s had her doubts before Joyce has. Maybe there’s some empathy there in the sympathy, when she felt the sting of the double standards and cruelty wrapped in the God bow, nice and pretty until you unravel it.
I remember her saying she never doubted God’s love for her somewhere before… ah, here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/research/, so it seems she’s her own form of Christian for now. Especially as she still carries a lot of the atheist-phobia from her mother-church.
What is the second commandment she broke? “Honor your parents”? Come on, its not like she’s talking smack about them or disowning them. Just buy answering the phone she honored her parents.
That’s a non-fundy interpretation. The super-Puritan version means toeing the line in all respects, because honouring one’s parents is like honouring God.
I will say as someone who grew up super fundie that lying to your parents is totally considered dishonoring them. It’s so easy to go to hell these days.
They’re both are so miserable at the end. You can tell its ripping Becky apart to see her friend in so much internal turmoil and to feel like she’s caused it by her existence. And Joyce is so shook by the price of “doing what is right even though its hard”.
And yeah, that’s not a neutral action for her. That culture often gets really weird about lying (especially among the laypeople and even more especially for laywomen), like, viewing it as a price too high even to stop genocide (no, seriously, a fundie friend in middle school tried to explain how lying to Nazis to protect people from the Holocaust would not be supported by God and it would be more moral to give them up instead, it was bizarre). [This of course, doesn’t apply to not lying about your sexual orientation, because blah blah blah, god-given orientation, God doesn’t make mistakes, blah].
Basically, for Joyce, this action is the equivalent of Huck Finn’s “I’ll go to Hell” moment and I’m not sure she’s fully prepared herself emotionally for the full emotional price of standing by her morals over her religion.
I don’t know what messed up fundie you have been talking to, cause I am pretty sure that is fine. At least according to the Catholic church (who is not representative of all christians), mortal sin is committed if three things line up: consent, knowledge, and seriousness. If confronted by a Nazi, the whole consent thing would come into play, and the giving up of a person to be killed is much more of a serious matter, so pick the lesser of two evils?
I don’t know, most of the crowd that dominated where I was from were post-millennial dispensationalists who believed that the Rapture was real and going to happen any day and that the Catholic Church was working for the Antichrist. So basically the crowd that Fred Clark (the slacktivist) writes a lot about. You can imagine how well my trans ass faired even before I was out of the closet.
Yeah, but among protestants that’s not *that* out there of a viewpoint to have. The church I grew up in was about at what seems to be an equivalent Fundy Level (we need a unit of measurement for this!) as Becky and Joyce’s, and that’s one of those moral dilemmas that everyone seemed to have trouble with. Relatedly, that was one of those really early points when I figured out maybe I had some objections to all the stuff I was raised with.
I vaguely recall a text by Kant with a similar problem: A madman wants to murder a person that searched your protection. Shall you now lie to the madman in order to hide that person, or shall you tell the truth? The adviced option was telling the truth. I’m still not certain if Kant was actually serious or just wanted to make the reader think.
But the solution of my catholic religion class was to weight things and to lie in such a situation. And to rather use anti-conception than to risk an abortion (of course, not having sex when a child is not option would the the right course of action, but well, we’re just humans so there should be advice on how to be not totally damnable if you fail to be perfect.)
That problem would be so easily solved if not for that pesky “Thou shalt not kill…” Good thing it’s been ignored so many times through history anyway! (I wonder, was that mistranslated at all? Because I have a hard time accepting that a holy text as ancient as the Bible would prohibit hunting or slaughtering livestock.)
The best option within their rules seems to be demanding that the madman leave, without offering any information beyond that they’re on your property.
Hereby establishing the Fundie Level system for rating your fundamentalist Christian upbringing:
FL0: Christian on paper, but don’t attend church, no proscriptions on behavior.
FL1: Church on Sundays, disapproval and mild punishment of lying, stealing, violence
FL2: Church on holy days, religious memorabilia prominently displayed in home, Bible readings at dinner table, stricter punishments
FL3: Home schooling, corporal punishment
FL4: No church (churches aren’t fundamentalist enough), dietary restrictions, shunning and violent rejection of sinners, Rapture is nigh
FL5: David Koresh-style suicide cults
Seems like a strange level system to me, as I have a hard time to put me in there. Probably somewhere between FL0 and FL1, but I’m not sure. Sometimes in church on sundays, usually in church on holy days, crucifixes at home, abstain from some things during Lent.
The Bible was the first one to say that thought-crimes are just as bad as real crimes: Matt 5:28“But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
Ah hell, I’ve already said ‘God damn it’ at least once; might as well go all the way. Kill somebody, wreck a marriage, start worshiping the Flying Spaghetti Monster, commit perjury, slander my parents, and covet my neighbor’s house, wife, AND servants. And do it all on a Sunday.
That is a fairly typical viewpoint in many modern Christian sects. The funny one then is that a fairly significant subset of modern Christians across sects break #1 and maybe #2 (depending which numbering we’re using) just within the standard format of worship (holding Jesus above or as an acceptable symbolic substitute (ie idol) for יהוה being a huge common element)
Becky’s dad shows up at school with Joyce’s parents (for another family clash about the ghey boyfriend after the atheist argument, and this time it’s her they want to take out of school).
You people are all ignoring the main issue, which is that Joyce’s Grandad is apparently doing O. It’s called addiction, people! Won’t someone please think of the Joyce’s grandads?!
This reminds me of Slacktivist; it’s this blog that’s run by an evangelical Christian who is basically the kind of Christian Mr. Rodgers would support. He did this post about how taking the attitude that no Christian should ever lie is really really stupid.
Say you’re a Christian in Germany during WWII. Like many through the country, you set up a hidden room so a Jewish family could, y’know, not be killed. Now, say an officer knocks on your door and asks if any Jews are hiding in the building.
I’ve dealt, in online conversations, with people who think that I, as an atheist, can’t have anything approaching a real sense of morality unless I assume God exists because I don’t think that lying is absolutely wrong all of the time.
Trying to get them to admit that there can be cases where lying to protect someone from an unjust death (I’m not going to guess that I’m dealing with anti-death-penalty people) can be the right thing to do. They just… don’t even acknowledge the question and go on saying that it’s only sometimes wrong to lie, therefore I have no morality at all.
It gets really frustrating to deal with people too wedded to absolutes even to contemplate a challenge to them.
I got in an argument on the OotS board one time that ended with several people telling me that if I put a D&D paladin in that situation, I was a bad DM.
True, but Slacktivist was facing people who were convinced that if you told the truth, God would intervene and ensure the officers heard the answer that would make them go away without anyone dying.
And then there’s people like the woman who provided abortions to everyone in one of the concentration camps because she realized that being pregnant in there would result in you being subjected to even more horrifying experiments, demonstrating that there are unquestionably circumstances where abortion is the Christian thing to do.
I’m not one of the group who has a problem with Becky’s moral character because she is a homeless lesbian: as has been stated above by someone. I just don’t like her.
I don’t like Becky because of the way she has been acting, not because of her sexual orientation.
I felt really sorry for her after her father pulled her tutition, and she ran away to get away. I stopped feeling sorry really quickly. Because:
Becky made a major move on her BF with no provocation, and then managed to make Joyce feel bad about it. (Joyce gets the guilts about everything anyway).
Becky than managed to alienate all of Joyces’ friends with just plain rudeness, after she came screaming out of the closet. (coming out was good, going nuts not so much).
Becky chased Joyce’s (boy) friend Ethan out of the room.
Becky accepted $20 from Billy to stop annoying her and used it to get a new haircut instead of giving it to Joyce to help pay her own way.
Becky has passively worked Joyce to buy her new clothes.
Becky has paraded down the dorm halls, not once but twice, in front of the RA, after she has been told to stay low. She will get Joyce kicked out of school if she keeps it up.
And now Joyce has lied to her mother (a first for her) to cover Becky.
What Becky has NOT done is attempt to help herself now. She has not attempted to find a job off campus. She has not attempted to see what organizations can help her get started on her own.
Said it before and say it again: how in Hell did she get into Anderson, because her Father paid. Doesn’t seem like it was for her smarts.
She’s got the common sense of a gold fish.
Hope this wakes her up and she starts trying to help herself a little now she’s got Joyce behind her to help.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say, are these statements in conflict? Becky dumped a lot of emotions on Joyce without any warning. She didn’t even try to ask if Joyce felt the same way as her before kissing her. It doesn’t have anything to do with her sexual orientation, if Becky was a straight male friend it would still be just as bad.
Just noting that the statement professing that their particular manifestation of hating Becky and seeing her as doing no right could not possibly be related to her queerness was immediately followed by the first examples of this being about her queerness.
Which I think is what’s often annoying, at least to me, is because its a subtle but not great expression of an unspoken prejudice. Not a burn all the gay people at the stake kind of prejudice, but rather a perspective where actions that are queer are viewed as equivalent to moral wrongdoing and a reason to dislike a person or where a double standard is applied to a character owing to her minority status as a queer individual.
I think it would ruffle my feathers less personally if the people I saw hating on Becky a) stuck to her very real character flaws (immature like Walky, carrying anti-atheist, biphobic, and other baggage from her religious upbringing, using inappropriate humor to hide emotional pain, limited initial understanding of consent, and so on) while akso b) consistently condemning that behavior aginst all who show that negative behavior (so like if the people who are annoyed by her immaturity are also down on Walky for his similar habits of deflecting with jokes and immature humor) and c) not also including things that aren’t really on Becky as part of “Becky’s flaws”.
And it’s that last part I see the most frequently pop up. Placing blame on Becky for the social products of cultural homophobia, viewing her having a shit situation and talking about it as a form of inflicting that shit situation on others, blaming her for the way her shit situation creates reflected feels for others, treating proud queer expression as a strike against her, and/or blaming her for the reflected trauma of her experiences feels at least to me like stating that someone shat upon by society for being queer is responsible for that shitting and should be in a position of penitent apology (which Becky is in, what with her meltdown at dinner last night and on the night she visited, but somehow that keeps getting overlooked by Becky haters).
And that’s before getting into the whole thing with hating her for not using $20 to magically make a terrible situation go away and how that fits into a weird narrative about poverty where the poor are seen as needing to deprive themselves of any form of mental self care and are viewed as being in the wrong if they dare show happiness or try and find pride in themselves because they are not being the “good, sympathetic victim”.
And I think its a subtle strain worth bringing out into the open and discussing openly, because its something I’ve seen in the real world used as an excuse in the mistreatment of queer youth in similar situations. Asking people shat upon from bigotry robbing them of homes, love, support, families, communities to apologize for the effects of that bigotry, asking people struggling with people casually trying to murder them or discrimination or homelessness or disownment or rape to keep silent about those experiences because thinking about someone suffering those things feels hard, and overall, placing queer individuals that are already in a bad situation to carry the added weight of protecting everyone else from having to adapt to a world where they exist or where bad things are routinely done to them and what that says about the world we live in.
It’s an enforcement of a type of closet and a common infection of the sort of thing that results in the numbers and experiences Leslie was talking about while people try and ignore and prevents those problems from being addressed and fixed in a real way.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just biased to be annoyed by these behaviors because I volunteer as mentor to a lot of young people in similar situations to Becky and have had a lot of friends go through similar stuff to Becky and worse and be blamed for it by people and how that’s led to suicide attempts and massive depression.
the fact that you have to state repeatedly it’s not because of her sexual orientation leads me to believe you dont quite believe yourself
also basically every character in this story has about that level of moral depravity (the ones that dont are exceptions) and they’re favorites, but Becky pulls and and because she’s poor it’s seen as irresponsible. We laugh when Walky is irresponsible because OH THEM COLLEGE AGE BOYS but Becky demonstrates pretty much the same level stuff and… you hate on her because she’s poor.
I am so sick of people scrutinizing every penny poor queer people spend. Honestly
With the exception of Dorothy, Becky hasn’t been any more rude to Joyce’s friends than Joyce had been when she had started to get to know them.
Becky has come from a very repressive environment and as I read it the best way she can counter that is by being out, loud and proud. Can you explain what you mean by her going nuts?
The hair cut reads as self care especially since she is still processing her fathers disowning and flight from him. When she got the 20 from Billie it became her money and in the end Becky used her own money to get the hair cut instead of getting someone else to pay for it.
Becky pointing out that wearing a sweater vest everyday is likely to get them caught isn’t passivly making Joyce buy her clothes, it’s pointing to an obvious flaw in their plan.
Becky wasn’t on parade when she came back from the hall bathroom because the shared one was occupied, it was bad-luck/plot that she ran into Ruth but it was handled well. Sometimes students use the bathrooms on other floors in the dorms it’s not really an issue. The second time she was in the hall this morning Joyce made a scene by yelling about how much skin Becky was showing. Even if Joyce gets caught hiding Becky in her room the school is more likely to hit Joyce with a fine as opposed to kicking her out especially for a first offense.
Joyce lying to her parents about Becky is a bridge she knew she would have cross, and it was a much plan than whatever mishmash of accents Becky planned on using.
Please remember that this is currently day 3 of Becky’s flight from her father, and Joyce is trying to keep Becky around all of the time so it’s not like she has had any time to look for a job. The only free time she’s had so far was when she got the hair cut which was self care. There’s every reason to believe that Joyce’s room was locked at this point so it’s not like she could even go online to look for a job, especially since the college computers wound require a login so that non-students cannot use them. Becky doesn’t know this campus or who/where to ask for help in this situation. Suddenly being on your own doesnt magically make you an expert on what to do, the same way turning 18 doesn’t magically make you a mature adult.
You keep on saying that you dislike Becky not because of her sexual orientation but several things you mention have to do with how Becky has handled coming out. I really think at this point you’re just looking for things to be angry about when you could flip that around and try to be understanding.
And, I don’t know how you expected that $20 dollar conversation to go.
“Hey Joyce, here’s $20 to help you help me.”
“Jeez, Becky, you probably need that more than I do right now.”
Well, consider everything, she would be the best one to manage get away with lies as her parents would have serious issues with imagine her even thinking about going against one of the commands she have been learned to follow;)
So I only ever read Shortpacked! up to dating sober Mike, and then stopped cause I was caught up. Checked out Dumbing of Age too, cause I liked Shortpacked! Never knew about the Roomies, Its Walky, Joyce and Walky comics, so I thought everyone in DoA was just made up for this particular comic. I never really put much thought into Robin and Mike having a mysterious past at the time. I’m really glad I went back through SP enough to see these characters pop up, and made myself go on a Roomies and IW binge the past couple days. I feel like my eyes have been opened. So much stuff has suddenly clicked into place, and I had no idea that any of it was kinda off. Wow. I’m just gonna say that I love these comics even more now, especially since I have now finished all the other stories. Keep up the amazing work! I’m even more excited for DoA now that I know how all the alternate versions fit together!
Bloody hell. There are more than 10 commandments??? I’ve been lied to … again?
Ach, lying to your parents is a rite of passage. Mind you, I can imagine Joyce’s mum – if she’s anything like my mother – at the other end going “I think there may be something wrong, and we should pay a visit.”
Becky may be insensitive on a bunch of subject, but this hits really home for her. She’s in the best position to understand fully what Joyce did and how much it represents.
—
Now, then. Off-panel Sarah, please give them a hug ;_;
Dunno, she’s still being pretty faithful to Becky. And I think most people would agree that honesty is pretty bendable if someone’s well-being is in danger.
I read the rollover and thought “Becky is a Murderer???”– Then I remembered that Willis was raised Protestant.
The different #ing creates much hilarity in the signs at pro-life rallies. Catholics wonder why the Protestants are calling the mothers “Adulterresses” and Protestants wonder why Catholics are screaming that they should “Honor Mother and Father”
Now if we can get the two groups arguing about the numbering, then no one will be able to get them posted in schools or government buildings. After all, you infringe on my religious practice by making me see a wrongly numbered set of commandments. That’s an abomination.
Oh, Joyce. ALWAYS answer a question with a question!
Mom: “Joyce, have you heard from Becky?”
Joyce: “Why? Is there something wrong with Becky?”
TECHNICALLY avoiding the lie. Not sure about the honoring thy father and mother thing, though..
Still counts as a sin! That’s a “lie of omission” which counts as a “sin of omission”. An example of a sin of omission is the traveller who didn’t help the injured man in the Good Samaritan parable.
This strip shows how Joyce is such a strong character. She understands she has to go against everything she was taught, everything she believed in, and does it for her friend. She’s taking the difficult path, not liking it one bit, but she does it anyway because she understands she has to do it.
It’s interesting that you read it that way… I see it as Becky being clearly sad and sorry for the pain she just caused Joyce, and then using humor as a coping mechanism.
I have been thinking… maybe they could get help from Jocelyne… or to be more exactly, Ethan could tell Jocelyne and at least get some advice that could ease Joyce and Becky situation.
Actually, it’s the other way round: God created canabis to ease the pains of life.”Es iz gots beyste trayst …. Reykher a splif ….”(Klezmatics, “Reefer Song”)
“Thou shalt not bear false witness” is what gets translated into “though shall not lie,” in addition to Proverbs 6 which lists “a lying tongue” and “a false witness who breathes out lies” among the things the Lord hates.
I’m pretty sure that the false witness thing means that you shall not try and get your neighbor into trouble by telling lies, or pass blame for something you did to your neighbor.
Strictly speak, the commandments don’t forbid lying. They forbid giving false witness. That’s (probably) just a subset of lying.
. . . I mean, I learned this in actual (reform) Jewish religious school, so this interpretation is presumably rooted in the original Hebrew. Not that I would have any luck reading it myself.
Jocelyne!!!
EXTRA hooray! (76%, 2,711 Votes)
wait who's jocelyne i didn't read the first ten years of the strip (13%, 468 Votes)
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but WHICH TEN COMMANDMENTS
Exodus 20? or Exodus 34??
(think Joyce is still good on 34)
((inb4 RULE 34 lolololol))
I’ve never figured out how they get ten out of those lists anyway. I always end up with more or fewer, depending on how I count them.
well, it’s not a “camel” going through the eye of a needle but a “thong” so maybe there’s a similar translation error?
uhh
THE
FIFTEENTEN COMMANDMENTS*crickets chirp*
…so, no one else’s a Mel Brooks fan?
Man, all you guys are disappointments. NO ONE’S gonna admit to watching History of the World Part 1?
“He is a eunuch. … HE is a eunuch. … He is dead.”
“Its good to be the king”
Jews… in… SPAAAAAACE!
Citizen Caldonia’s dance was my first awakening realization that I liked girls.
-looks at junk-
…Jewish, eh?
Or Catholic. Or over 60% of American males.
Only a miracle can save us now.
I’ve seen all of Brook’s movies multiple times, except that one.
The inquisition, let’s begin,
The inquisition, look out sin,
We’re on a mission, to convert the Jews.
No one expects the Spanish inquisition!
“Hear me, people! God has given me fifteen rules by which to live your-”
*Drops a slate on the ground*
“Uhhh, ten, ten rules by which to live your life.”
Do you have a source on the camel thing? I’ve never heard such, and it sounds like pretty standard way of saying “something impossible” figuratively.
It’s like the Big 10 Conference, which is up to 14 members. (Which is pretty funny, since the member universities are all highly rated, but evidently can’t do simple arithmetic.)
I nearly snorted tea through my nose
It’s like the “increasingly inaccurately-named” “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” trilogy, which was up to five books last time I counted.
There was sixth book, but it was written by a different author so whether it counts or not is open to debate. Adams has been dead for almost 15 years now, so the odds of him writing more himself are pretty low. Then again, mortality didn’t slow Asimov down much, did it? Never can tell with scifi writers.
My current belief in heaven is based on a vision of Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett hanging out, telling each other stories.
I signed up just to say i love this idea.
That may be the best reason I’ve ever heard to believe in an afterlife.
Six if you count the follow-up book written by Eoin Colfer after Adams’ death. 🙂
Which noone ever does because it was terrible.
It wasn’t terrible by a long shot… I personally enjoy Eoin Colfers other works though.
Was it the exact same kind of story as the previous books? No, and that’s honestly what kept it from being bad. If the book had been written attempting to make it feel as if it was written by Douglas Adams it would have been very terrible, so he opted for a different approach using similar themes and the general setting and such to write a book that wrapped up some of the points and did it as best he could without channeling the ghost of Douglas Adams.
I liked it, except for the ending… It felt unfufilling
The last two were both weird, and they were mostly weird in the same way. And in a different way than the rest were weird,
So I sometimes like to think of the series as ending just prior to those two
I’m not saying eoin did a bad job, because he was working from notes left by the guy and long talks between the two of them
I’m saying the story was going in a weird direction before he officially took the reigns
A more accurate comparison might be made with the Xanth trilogy, which I believe Piers Anthony has gotten past twenty books.
The first Xanth “trilogy” is 27 novels (ending, appropriately, with Cube Route).
Or the Star Wars trilogy?
Right? Meanwhile, the “Big 12” conference has 10 members. Counting is hard.
Exodus 20 starts with a group of ten, which most people take as “the ten commandments” because they fail reading comprehension. Thing is, that list of ten continues just after into a much larger list. The group in exodus 34 is actually a set of ten, and it’s the only list that is actually referred to explicitly as “the ten commandments”.
Catholics combine “Don’t worship other Gods” and “Don’t make idols,” whereas Protestants combine “Don’t covet your neighbor’s goods” and “don’t covet you neighbor’s wife”
No more 34. It’s all about the 63.
The 63rd Commandment: “For any given gendered character, there is an opposite version of that character.”
It just struck me: your grav is checking the Commandments in THE BOOK, yes? Outstanding!
Don’t you love it when gravatars and comments go together?
^_^
Yes, and yours mesh perfectly today. It would be interesting the gravatar for each comment were sealed when the comment was made, so people looking throgh the archives would see your changing gravatars as they read—I know that you’ve helpfully provided a webpage to show us your gravatars (thanks for that, by the way!), but I just think it would be hilarious for someone to read through this comic for the first time, and get mildly confused by the changing gravatars as they archive binged. Is that strange? Some people say the things that amuse me are strange….
If that were to happen, you will find that I have used 100s of Gravatars since I started posting in DoA since 2011.
When I started reading DoA about half a year ago, I marathoned through them in a week including the top half of the comments(which was at least half the fun. I still got a smile on my faaaaace)
It was always nice seeing someone comment about your grav(which I couldn’t see :-(. )
PM’ s gravatars are kaleidoscopic: you have 24 hours to see today’s grav before the midnight transformation. I’ve not reread the DoA archive, but as I discover new comics on whose archives I binge, I’ve more than once come across comments that Plasma Mongoose posted years ago, pinned to a grav that I recognize as “today’s” because I read DoA first each day. It’s fun to come across old posts by PM and other DoA regulars on the sites of comics I’ve just discovered–they’re like, “X was here” messages left by previous explorers. Plasma’ s posts are extra cool because their text might be years old, but their gravs are always today’s. They give me this sense of a webcomic comment/discussion hyperspace: each day Plasma Mongoose posts a new grav, which then propagates almost instantly across the archives of multiple comics; its like quantum entanglement!
It feels like I got reality-bending super powers when you say it that way.
^_^
Your gravatar is toko from dangan ronpa if I’m not mistaken
Was … 😉
What was true one minute, may not be so the next…
Yep–however briefly that lasts! 🙂
Does Becky obey the 69th Commandment?
…
I’ll get my coat.
Well Willis appears to be determined she’ll go down on his list of greatest characters …
I’ll skip my coat, I smell pitchforks and hear torches!
You mean his list of greatest female characters, right? How many readers would join Slipshine for that?
…I’m fairly certain that would have made things far more interesting. That book is looking mighty hot there, Moses.
Actually there are 613 commandments.
There’s one that’s like, if 2 guys are fighting and the wife of one reaches in and grabs her husband’s opponent by his Go Forth & Be Fruitfuls, thou shalt amputate her arm/hand. I’ve always wondered whether there were actually a lot of ladies doing that back then OR they we were really nervous about the women and put it in ‘just in case’/’better safe than sorry’.
Perhaps the single largest struggle in the history of mankind has been the attempt to stop women from grabbing balls.
Since time immemorial, man has been terrorized by woman. Woman could simply grab his balls and have him, well, by the balls. Anthropology shows us that hunter gather cultures see an excess of 10% of the population engaging in ball-grabbing every day.
What was that old joke about Anthropology being “The science of Man, embracing women”? You’ve certainly given that a new twist … ouch!!!
That one’s actually from Deuteronomy, not Exodus. (And I swear it was even wackier when I read it in middle school.)
Like, “what’s your favorite Bible passage?”, eh. It’s a good check on who’s actually read The Good Book. When I came on that the first time it stopped me dead for an instant before I fell on the floor roaring with laughter. Sometimes I still wonder, did I really read that or just imagine it …
Interesting. I’ve never heard 34 referred to as the ten commandments before.
RULE 34 lolololol
Eh, best two out of ten.
4 and a half out of 10?
Two outta ten ain’t bad.
She’ll break all ten later on. I wonder how she’ll do so?
What twisted universe does Joyce murder someone? XD
Yeah, that’d be pretty messed up, I would think. Willis would NEVER write that.
The Walkyverse?
I bet Willis wrote it in at some point all those years ago and we’ll see it later.
The Walkyverse, actually. She kills her evil clone.
She wasn’t even actually evil. She was just everything Joyce hated.
She was every impulse that Joyce hated in herself and therefore supressed
I know we’re trying to be all like “WOO YEAH JOYCE break free of your fundie upbringing” and all, but there are things like “don’t steal” and “don’t kill” and in there, too…
The Ten Commandments are a lot like the rest of religion, a few good ideas and a few livable things and then a few out there things.
This is the internet – there are those among us who’d gleefully applaud her breaking those rules, too.
The day Joyce hails Buddha, murders someone, or has premarital hanky-panky with Walky is the day Satan finds out he’s pregnant with Tom Cruise’s child.
However, she could still end up saying “goddammit” at some point, or stealing something (for Becky). She kind of already wants things other people have, she might skip Church one Sunday, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s building a shrine to Sal right now.
Walkyverse Joyce actually did at least two of those things you’re saying she’d never do.
Hell, one of them was a very significant plot point.
Yes, but this isn’t walkyverse Joyce
Buddhism isn’t a religion, though, is it? I think it’s a philosophy, and Buddha never claimed he was a god or prophet of a deity.
Buddha never claimed he was a god or prophet, but he did claim to have understood the nature of the universe absolutely and provided a guide to spiritual fulfillment. So I’d say the classification of Buddhism as a religion is completely accurate.
And in many sects, buddhas have a lot in common with deities.
Joyce then sees Walky’s extensive Monkey Master Figurine collection and crosses out “Covet”
Since her neighbor is Billie, and Billie is Sal’s roommate, is that sort of like coveting your neighbor’s wife? Or would she have to covet Ruth?
I think that is coveting your neighbor’s ass.
She certainly covets Sal’s ass. 😉
Last I checked, Sal’s chocolate river of hair did not grow out of her ass, but I could be wrong.
I guess we’ll know for sure when the next Slipshine comes out.
“chocolate river” “growing out of her ass”.
Excuse me, I need to use the brain bleach again… xD
Bummer, I hate using that crap … I’d rather have a filthy mind 😉
Making feces-related jokes? Get out of here. Do you hear me? SCAT!
😛
Oh poop, I seem to keep ending up in the dung heap …
Well, I’m not pooh-poohing the idea…
She wants to ride Sal’ s motorcycle … also.
Think Sal’s motorcycle took care of that already. Also possibly “thou shalt have no other gods besides Me.”
Yeah, but it doesn’t explicitly say “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s sweet motorcycle.”
Sadly, Walky’s figurine collection lost the right to be called extensive after he threw the one toy at Dorothy’s head.
Knowing Walky it was probably a duplicate in his collection anyway.
Whenever I start collecting stuff I always end up with three or four really junk cards/figures/whatever that I can’t trade away.
Also “worship graven idols”.
I don’t think injection-molded plastics qualify as “graven” do they?
Not to mention the one about worshiping false idols since that collection could be viewed as a shrine.
Yeah, I’m stretching. :p
Damn – Dean beat me to it.
Nor sure how many commandments I qualify for. However, I’ve tried all seven of the deadly sins, and the only one I have any aptitude for is Sloth.
That has to count for something, right? I might never be a saint, but at least I can be a lousy sinner. I suppose I could try harder, but again, Sloth.
You should go for Wrath. Wrath’s fun, and if I understand my Christianity right, it should cancel out sloth? Maybe?
…Ok, maybe just stick with sloth.
A Mr Kahn Noonian Singh is here asking for his Wrath back.
Hell, I’m a fan of all seven!
In seriousness, though, I don’t see much merit in envy. All the others have a lot going for them, but envy offers no benefit that isn’t already covered by pride & avarice.
I think reading YouTube comments exercises Wrath without losing Sloth.
From experience Sloth and Greed go together quite nicely. Maybe throw in some Lust and it’s all I’d ever need.
I wasn’t going to comment tonight, I have homework I’ve been putting off but holy shit!
Becky looks sad for Joyce.
It’s not like rebuilding your entire worldview from scratch is fun…
Of course she does, Becky is fully aware how much she has forced onto Joyce. Certainly she feels bad about, but sadly there’s not much she can do.
(Roll eyes) Yes, Becky forcing so much on to Joyce by being gay, homeless and in need. Yup.
I’d have a lot more patience for the people who say they have totally reasonable reasons for hating Becky if so many of the anti-Becky brigade didn’t seem to think that being a homeless queer youth was one of the strikes against her moral character.
The anti- antiBecky brigade is just as annoying, at least when they go off on innocuous posts like the one above. Let’s try to keep a cool head, hmm?
I really don’t read anti-Becky attitude in Steven’s post. I think it is a spot-on description of what goes on in Becky’s mind.
Of course she feels guilt about being a burden for Joyce, just like Joyce feels guilt for doing enough to support Becky, regardless of if it’s “objectively” true or not.
Right! This is truly a tense situation for both of them. Their friendships really being tested here and no ones to blame here.
Except Toe Dad, of course.
My interpretation, too.
I like Becky, but yeah, she does force all that on Joyce. Of course she needs help, and she has every right to ask for it and get it. And right now her only way to get it, it’s Joyce. Meaning, that Joyce is standing in a very uncomfortable position between her upbringing and Becky’s safety.
It’s not that Becky is “gay, homeless and in need” the hardest part on Joyce, it’s the obligation to act against her own moral rules in order to protect her best friend. It’s the right thing to do and she knows it, but a part of her mind still screams it’s wrong.
Hey hey hey, take it easy. Steven wasn’t necessarily disapproving of Becky’s actions, just speculating that she feels guilty for forcing a burden on her best friend. Hell, I’d feel guilty if I were in Becky’s place, regardless of how unjustly I’d been forced into such a situation.
Ok yeah, reading it a second time, I can see that and it’s something I agree with. She definitely rips herself apart with the guilt of the second-hand damage her situation brings with her.
I think I just reacted to the phrasing of it as “she has forced” rather than “she feels she has forced” especially as there seems to be a number of people who really do think that someone in a shitty situation existing and that shitty situation having an impact as forcing that situation on Joyce.
Or shorter me, sorry Steven.
I think it’s the fact that she came to Joyce with her problems knowing that it would be a burden to her. I mean I like Becky but she hasn’t exactly made helping her easy for Joyce
Oh bugger I really should refresh the page before submitting my posts
Wait, what. How is what I said Anti-Becky, if anything it’s pro-Becky. If I was homeless and a friend took me in for nothing but was then forced to lie to their parents and risk getting in trouble I would feel pretty bad.
Sorry if I sounded accusatory, I only met that by taking in Becky, the act came with a lot of unexpected burden for Joyce and that of course as a good friend Becky would feel bad about it.
Yeah, sorry I didn’t read the feeling crap interpretation my first pass. So, earmest apologies there.
On point, I fully agree. It’s pretty clear that even though it’s not really her fault per se that a shitty situation got dumped on her, it was pretty clear at the sushi dinner that the fact that her situation nonetheless has impact on others eats her up pretty fierce inside.
Exactly!
And Becky has experienced firsthand what it is to take a stand against everything your upbringing, religion and family stands for.
Oh wow. I did not expect that. Good for Joyce though.
I actually think it’s a little heartbreaking. Just a little bit more innocence gone.
Thou shall lie to thy parents when protecting your friend. It’s on there right next to get your money man.
Hey, a B is good. I think I’m like, what? C? C+? I dunno. There’s a make up test, right?
well the Catholics have confession, that’s sorta a makeup test
The Catholics also have this thing where they bribe the teacher.
I don’t think we have the bribing option anymore. But yeah, confession helps.
But wasn’t it the general idea anyway, that nobody’s going to really pass the test, but we all hope that the teacher sees that we tried and worked real hard and thus is going to be mercyful and let us pass anyway?
Yes, but now you have to convince all the overachievers and curve breakers in fundie land, because they seem to have forgotten. (spoilers: they still don’t pass the test)
…Okay, I think this metaphor’s at the end of its rope.
In all seriousness, though, the method of salvation in regards to works vs faith was a major point of contention in the early church (as in first generation early). Peter and Paul repeatedly butted heads on the issue. That said, the works they were concerned about would be almost unrecognizable compared to the “Christian behavior” that modern fundies adhere to, so meh. (See: every time Historical Jesus starts getting preachy in SP!)
A far cry from the days of going nuts with the plenary indulgences.
Wow, I didn’t realize it but I’m pretty much 3 out of 10, and all of those three I know I make exceptions for.
please, please tell me one of those three is the murder one
That’s the only one that I can honestly say I’ve never broken without resorting to technicalities.
(Like: Technically, as an atheist, I don’t have any other gods before YHWH… or after Him, or even Him; or: technically, her husband wasn’t my neighbor… (which doesn’t get me out of #7, anyway))
Is killing bugs murder?
Naw. “Murder” is the unlawful and intentional killing of another human being.
That’s why I roll my eyes at all of the supposed “murders” that some people love to exaggerate for attention.
Ask The Prof if you can earn some Extra Credit. 🙂
Hey, a C is still passing. Technically it’s supposed to mean “average.”
What was the other commandment? Honor thy parents?
Never get high on your own supply?
I laughed at that a lot harder than I should’ve at this hour.
Watch where you’re driving and don’t go faster than you can see to stop.
Don’t eat the yellow snow?
Or the Urinal Cakes … (Sign in a bar I patronized a long time gone)
He who smelt it, surely hath dealt it.
And NEVER eat the yellowcake.
Uranium IS somewhat volatile.
Uranium? Volatile? Unless you’ve melted some uranium, that’s one thing you don’t have to worry about with that metal. And if you have melted uranium, you’re either running like hell or already dead.
“He that smelt it, thine own self dealt it”?
Thou shalt not swim for half of an hour after supping.
“Checkest thyself before thou wreckest thyself.”
…ow. I know archaic English never gets used properly, but… Ow.
I actually felt that way about the Ice Cube line being incomplete.
Thou shalt not committee?
IF ONLY!!!
Thou shalt honor Ronald Reagan as me.
Wasn’t that a story arc in Shortpacked? 🙂
Which commandment is about lying?
Honor your Mother and your Father.
“Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour”
or something
So if I lie to someone in a different state, I’m all good?
Probably. It’s like how it’s okay to have slaves as long as they’re from another country.
No, you can have slaves of all sorts according to the Bible.
However, if it’s a Jewish slave you’re supposed to let them go after seven years… unless you got your slave a wife and he doesn’t want to leave his wife and kids. In that case you can just nail his ear to a doorpost and then you get to keep him forever and your kids will inherit him and his family as well.
So… yeah. This is the book some people claim is “moral”.
It was pretty radically liberal by the standards of the day. I mean, when your neighbors are the Phoenicians…
I fail to see anything “radically liberal” about their slavery policy of: you can own another human being, but if that being is a Jew then you have to trick them into remaining your slave.
Well, you might argue that this was false witness in FAVOR of her neighbor…
So that one is really about lying to get people into trouble, therefore lying to keep people out of trouble is still copacetic.
False witness is one of those ambiguous terms. The classical Hebrew uses the intensive voice (IIRC,) which would mean something more like “You shall not commit perjury ,” just as “You shall not kill” really means “You shall not kill (someone else with intent),” which comes very close to “You shall not commit first degree murder.” Each of them doesn’t translate to English well.)
You mean God didn’t write the Bible in American? We’re his chosen people!
Hahahahaaa perfect!
#9 is “Thou shalt not bear false witness”
#5 is “Honor thy mother and father.”
As an atheist, I’m not sure why I know them in the proper order. *shrug*
The proper order depends on who you ask. So typically Christian.
The 10 commandments are mostly bullshit anyway. You have one set of ten, which then bleeds into a larger set, and then those get destroyed and God gives them “the same commandments” later and they’re not -actually- the same, and they’re mostly about how you flavor your bread and what holidays you observe. And the second set is the one -actually- called “The Ten Commandments”. But really, even if you go by the original set, most of them range from useless to awful, when you consider what potential commandments didn’t make the cut.
Still, I bet Joyce can still ACE not boiling a baby goat in its mother’s milk eh???
No doubt! But really, who the hell does that, anyway?
Gordon Ramsay or Heston Blumental?
I don’t know, it sounds as though it could be quiet delicious, soft meat of a young animal made even softer by cooking it in milk…
That’s because the Bible forbids it, obviously.
Everyone knows you use milk from a different goat.
Instead of pink coat hangers, I keep seeing Becky’s head vibrating.
Joyce is getting pretty good at lying.
She’s been lying to herself about not liking girls. It comes easily!
No, no she is not. There is no metric where that was a good, convincing lie. It’s just better than might be expected from her given lack of experience. She doesn’t ask questions about why her mother is looking for Becky. If the “yeahs” are in response to hearing about the situation from Becky’s parents’ POV, she’s awfully calm and unquestioning. Be interested to see if her parents are suspicious enough to check up on it.
Oh wow, I didn’t think Joyce would actually lie.
No, Becky, that’s a B-, not a full B.
They’re college age. A B- is the same thing as a B as far as GPAs are concerned.
shit when I wasn’t in college, a B- was still a B
What? I thought a B- netted you 2.7 grade points instead of 3.0
I’ve attended 3 universities, and none of them did that.
My university does that, the 2.7 instead of 3.0. It sucks.
My school did, except we multiplied everything by 3. So a B- would be *does math* 8 points.
An A+ was not worth more than an A though. That was annoying.
A+ should score you an extra enthusiastic letter of rec from the prof.
A+ just didn’t exist at my university. Nor did F, for that matter – it got replaced with E.
My university used a *non-linear* 20 point scale.
Anything below 8 was failing in freshman and sophomore year, anything below 12 was failing for juniors and seniors. Anything 16+ was some type of A-equivalent.
???So for jrs & srs over 55%of the grades, ie 0–11, were some level of failing??? Did these grades have names, like, maybe Double Plus Really Really Failing (get your name and course wrong on the final) through Oh Too Bad You Just Missed Passing Why Don’t You Retake The Course?
I had a teacher once who never gave an A+ grade because “A+ means perfect, and there’s only one person who is perfect, and that’s neither you nor me.” She was talking about Jesus. Mind you, this was a PUBLIC SCHOOL. A public school in rural Iowa. *shrug*
Psh, You only really need a D to get credit anyway.
Or the D, if you’re Sal.
Getting “the D” didn’t help Sal beyond sexual relief, if you’re referring to her attempt at quid pro quo. Am I using the phrase right? “Tit for tat” might be better here…
Does Sal have a tat?
She totally has that spider tat on her arm. Not sure bout any others. Only Jason knows for sure.
Can your immortal soul take Life pass/fail?
I’m told that’s the only option.
Didn’t much care for the TA, though, so I seldom show up for class.
Joyce’s mom didn’t even tell her that Becky was missing…
From her perspective, it might be for the best that she not terrify Joyce with things out of her control.
I’m not sure how the Browns feel about Becky yet, but I imagine they’re calling their daughter because they’re worried about her.
Yeah, also Joyce cut the call short. I’m sure they would have got to missing friends and satanist phone-stealers eventually.
Also, we are not exactly sure how much the Browns know. I assume Toedad might want to lay low with the whole “my daughter is a lesbian-who-is-going-to-hell and has run away”-thing. He might have just asked them casually, “oh, have Joyce heard from Becky lately – you know how children never tell you anything and I wonder how she is doing”
I’m not quite sure why but I find that latter possibility kinda horrifying.
It increases the risk for tragic misunderstandings where everyone think they do the “right thing”. And it paints ToeDad as desperate and increases the risk that he does something stupid and violent and horrible.
I got the distinct impression that between those ‘yeah’s Joyce’s Mom was doing a lot of talking, and not saying things that Joyce agreed with – look at her face in the last panel, she’s pissed. She was probably saying that Becky’s a sinner now, and that Joyce should shun her, or something along those lines. Joyce ended the call early so she wouldn’t lose her temper and get into a shouting match with her mom.
AIUI that’s not “pissed”, it’s “distressed”.
I choose to assume this was to not worry her daughter unnecessarily.
I don’t like being cynical but i think we’ll be getting a visit from the Browns sooner rather than later possibly with Beckys dad as well
Yup, Becky is pretty much doomed. It’s just a matter of when that hammer drops and how much damage Joyce and the accumulated friend pool will do to try and stop the hammer from dropping. However it plays out though, there’s definitely going to be an avalanche of Damn You Willis moments.
Who’s to say she didn’t? There’s nothing in Joyce’s side of the conversation to suggest her mother didn’t bring up Becky’s status as “missing abomination” Sure, her mother might have thought it would have frazzled her, but we know it wouldn’t have, and Mrs. Brown isn’t known for her tact. I read the whole “ending the conversation early” part as Joyce just not wanting to deal with her mother again, especially after she defended Dorothy to them.
Eh… no one cares about #5 and #9, anyway.
Joyce being a good person
Number 5? Is that one: Thou shall Mambo?
😀 !!
It is now.
And now we dances
And Monica begat Erica, who begat Rita. And Rita begat Tina…
This Ontarian here grew up with 80 as an absolute minimum 4- (A-). So it’s just above 3+ (B+).
One of my friends grew up with the Canadian/UK grading system, and then came back to the States for college. I don’t think she ever fully adjusted.
literally ever face Joyce makes in this is pure gold
Number 5 is too abstract, like what about abusive parents, or neglectful parents? It should be honor thy mother and father, unless their assholes.
From what I remember from my fundie friends in HS, there’s no such thing as abusive parents who are truly members of the Church and not fallen sinner type people. So if a parent is being abusive, they are just showing tough love and the full showing of their devotion. Man, I do not miss living in Fundieville.
I wonder if fundamentalist politicians could be knocked out of national races just by asking them questions about the Ten Commandments…
What about their assholes?
They should be wiped, after all nobody wants a dirty asshole…
And then the Lord said unto Moses, “Thou shalt wipe thy dirty arse, not once, but at least twice, and useth a baby wipe to maketh sure thine taint is clean!”
I’ve evidently been reading LFG for too long, because I automatically wondered if that involved using a baby as a wipe.
but cats make GREAT wipes! (maybe not)
If you’re an undead warlock named Richard, then “yes!” Otherwise, YMMV.
Because honoring their assholes would be weird.
It’s okay Joyce, your parents lied too when they said they were good parents.
Her parents for the most part are better then they could be, they are in no means perfect but they aren’t abusive, they can respect Joyce’s choice to have an atheist friend and they are better then Becky’s father.
Yeah, I guess that’s true. I just don’t like assholes. Now that I think about it though, I’m kind of an asshole, which makes me a hypocrite. Yet I hate hypocrites way more than I dislike assholes, meanwhile I don’t hate myself. So that makes me a really huge hypocrite. I suddenly feel dizzy from this.
Better than Becky’s father is an awfully low bar to set for “good parents”.
What about Ambers father.
Even lower.
I might pay to see the two tossed into a gladiator pit. Possibly with some rabid lions…
Hey now, those poor lions ought to taken to a vet for treatment right away. Rabies is a very serious disease and the deaths it causes are absolutely horrific. If you want the Helldads to get rabies, you can just inject them with it yourself.
Lets face it, parents kinda suck in Willis’ work
Becky and Joyce are having some complicated times. I don’t think Becky’s atheist, or at the very least has not professed to be, but certainly she’s had her doubts before Joyce has. Maybe there’s some empathy there in the sympathy, when she felt the sting of the double standards and cruelty wrapped in the God bow, nice and pretty until you unravel it.
I remember her saying she never doubted God’s love for her somewhere before… ah, here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/research/, so it seems she’s her own form of Christian for now. Especially as she still carries a lot of the atheist-phobia from her mother-church.
Christian gays are very-very common. Generally, they come to the sensible belief that God hating them because of the way he made them is stupid.
What is the second commandment she broke? “Honor your parents”? Come on, its not like she’s talking smack about them or disowning them. Just buy answering the phone she honored her parents.
That’s a non-fundy interpretation. The super-Puritan version means toeing the line in all respects, because honouring one’s parents is like honouring God.
whatev tho
I will say as someone who grew up super fundie that lying to your parents is totally considered dishonoring them. It’s so easy to go to hell these days.
Aw, Joyce. I can’t even put any of my feelings about this strip into a coherent few sentences. Just. Oh, oh, Joyce.
They’re both are so miserable at the end. You can tell its ripping Becky apart to see her friend in so much internal turmoil and to feel like she’s caused it by her existence. And Joyce is so shook by the price of “doing what is right even though its hard”.
And yeah, that’s not a neutral action for her. That culture often gets really weird about lying (especially among the laypeople and even more especially for laywomen), like, viewing it as a price too high even to stop genocide (no, seriously, a fundie friend in middle school tried to explain how lying to Nazis to protect people from the Holocaust would not be supported by God and it would be more moral to give them up instead, it was bizarre). [This of course, doesn’t apply to not lying about your sexual orientation, because blah blah blah, god-given orientation, God doesn’t make mistakes, blah].
Basically, for Joyce, this action is the equivalent of Huck Finn’s “I’ll go to Hell” moment and I’m not sure she’s fully prepared herself emotionally for the full emotional price of standing by her morals over her religion.
I don’t know what messed up fundie you have been talking to, cause I am pretty sure that is fine. At least according to the Catholic church (who is not representative of all christians), mortal sin is committed if three things line up: consent, knowledge, and seriousness. If confronted by a Nazi, the whole consent thing would come into play, and the giving up of a person to be killed is much more of a serious matter, so pick the lesser of two evils?
I don’t know, most of the crowd that dominated where I was from were post-millennial dispensationalists who believed that the Rapture was real and going to happen any day and that the Catholic Church was working for the Antichrist. So basically the crowd that Fred Clark (the slacktivist) writes a lot about. You can imagine how well my trans ass faired even before I was out of the closet.
Yeah, but among protestants that’s not *that* out there of a viewpoint to have. The church I grew up in was about at what seems to be an equivalent Fundy Level (we need a unit of measurement for this!) as Becky and Joyce’s, and that’s one of those moral dilemmas that everyone seemed to have trouble with. Relatedly, that was one of those really early points when I figured out maybe I had some objections to all the stuff I was raised with.
I vaguely recall a text by Kant with a similar problem: A madman wants to murder a person that searched your protection. Shall you now lie to the madman in order to hide that person, or shall you tell the truth? The adviced option was telling the truth. I’m still not certain if Kant was actually serious or just wanted to make the reader think.
But the solution of my catholic religion class was to weight things and to lie in such a situation. And to rather use anti-conception than to risk an abortion (of course, not having sex when a child is not option would the the right course of action, but well, we’re just humans so there should be advice on how to be not totally damnable if you fail to be perfect.)
That problem would be so easily solved if not for that pesky “Thou shalt not kill…” Good thing it’s been ignored so many times through history anyway! (I wonder, was that mistranslated at all? Because I have a hard time accepting that a holy text as ancient as the Bible would prohibit hunting or slaughtering livestock.)
The best option within their rules seems to be demanding that the madman leave, without offering any information beyond that they’re on your property.
It’s supposed to be you shall not murder, as in an illegal unprovoked killing. Hunting game and killing in self defense is fine
Hereby establishing the Fundie Level system for rating your fundamentalist Christian upbringing:
FL0: Christian on paper, but don’t attend church, no proscriptions on behavior.
FL1: Church on Sundays, disapproval and mild punishment of lying, stealing, violence
FL2: Church on holy days, religious memorabilia prominently displayed in home, Bible readings at dinner table, stricter punishments
FL3: Home schooling, corporal punishment
FL4: No church (churches aren’t fundamentalist enough), dietary restrictions, shunning and violent rejection of sinners, Rapture is nigh
FL5: David Koresh-style suicide cults
For the record, i was raised about an FL1.
Suspected ratings of DoA characters: I’d put Joyce at a 3, Billie at 1. Mary, hard to say, possibly a 2.
Seems like a strange level system to me, as I have a hard time to put me in there. Probably somewhere between FL0 and FL1, but I’m not sure. Sometimes in church on sundays, usually in church on holy days, crucifixes at home, abstain from some things during Lent.
“That must be a weird thing for Protestants to believe, since Catholics don’t”. Umm…
It will work out, Joyce. Becky’s liberties were at stake.
Joyce made a choice. She chose right, but it still hurts so much.
Have I mentioned how proud I am for both of them.
I remember being told in Sabbath School that breaking one commandment is like breaking them all… so in for a penny, in for a pound then?
“Being gay is no worse than lying… which I hate”
Sooo by that definition lying is as bad as killing someone……in for a pound indeed.
The Bible was the first one to say that thought-crimes are just as bad as real crimes: Matt 5:28 “But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
Anyone who has ever watched porn is a cheating bastard!
I’m such a player in my own mind and such an old virgin outside of it.
There are people that actually think that.
It got Jimmy Carter elected president!
Ha!
Ah hell, I’ve already said ‘God damn it’ at least once; might as well go all the way. Kill somebody, wreck a marriage, start worshiping the Flying Spaghetti Monster, commit perjury, slander my parents, and covet my neighbor’s house, wife, AND servants. And do it all on a Sunday.
In for a penny, in for a pound.
Why stop a covet just have sex with your neighbor’s wife, house and servants. bonus points for doing all three at once.
Have sex with your neighbour’s house. As in the physical structure.
Thank you for that. I am still laughing. xD
Speaking of pennies, Mike called.
That is a fairly typical viewpoint in many modern Christian sects. The funny one then is that a fairly significant subset of modern Christians across sects break #1 and maybe #2 (depending which numbering we’re using) just within the standard format of worship (holding Jesus above or as an acceptable symbolic substitute (ie idol) for יהוה being a huge common element)
Becky’s dad shows up at school with Joyce’s parents (for another family clash about the ghey boyfriend after the atheist argument, and this time it’s her they want to take out of school).
I’m calling it.
I hope you are wrong. -ish
I may not like them much, but I have more faith in them than that.
You people are all ignoring the main issue, which is that Joyce’s Grandad is apparently doing O. It’s called addiction, people! Won’t someone please think of the Joyce’s grandads?!
Opium is so old school after all.
If I was a conspiracy theorist I would say that Joyce is rocking a Nokia.
TELL US THE TRUTH, WILLIS
Android or Windows?
In the US, Windows. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an Android Nokia.
Nokia XL uses Android Jelly-Bean.
This reminds me of Slacktivist; it’s this blog that’s run by an evangelical Christian who is basically the kind of Christian Mr. Rodgers would support. He did this post about how taking the attitude that no Christian should ever lie is really really stupid.
Say you’re a Christian in Germany during WWII. Like many through the country, you set up a hidden room so a Jewish family could, y’know, not be killed. Now, say an officer knocks on your door and asks if any Jews are hiding in the building.
Do you lie?
I’ve dealt, in online conversations, with people who think that I, as an atheist, can’t have anything approaching a real sense of morality unless I assume God exists because I don’t think that lying is absolutely wrong all of the time.
Trying to get them to admit that there can be cases where lying to protect someone from an unjust death (I’m not going to guess that I’m dealing with anti-death-penalty people) can be the right thing to do. They just… don’t even acknowledge the question and go on saying that it’s only sometimes wrong to lie, therefore I have no morality at all.
It gets really frustrating to deal with people too wedded to absolutes even to contemplate a challenge to them.
I got in an argument on the OotS board one time that ended with several people telling me that if I put a D&D paladin in that situation, I was a bad DM.
Roleplaying v rollplaying.
Yes because give them up also gets you sent the camps as well.
True, but Slacktivist was facing people who were convinced that if you told the truth, God would intervene and ensure the officers heard the answer that would make them go away without anyone dying.
And then there’s people like the woman who provided abortions to everyone in one of the concentration camps because she realized that being pregnant in there would result in you being subjected to even more horrifying experiments, demonstrating that there are unquestionably circumstances where abortion is the Christian thing to do.
In short, there are a lot of Christians who believe that the letter of the law is more important than how you treat people.
They are not the entirety of Christians, of course. They are not the majority. But, they exist and they make an atheist wish there was a hell.
I think its more of they can’t think for themselves kind of thing.
I love Joyce and Becky I swear..
but man. I am seriously forseeing a Nega-Joyce shitstorm….
I’m not one of the group who has a problem with Becky’s moral character because she is a homeless lesbian: as has been stated above by someone. I just don’t like her.
I don’t like Becky because of the way she has been acting, not because of her sexual orientation.
I felt really sorry for her after her father pulled her tutition, and she ran away to get away. I stopped feeling sorry really quickly. Because:
Becky made a major move on her BF with no provocation, and then managed to make Joyce feel bad about it. (Joyce gets the guilts about everything anyway).
Becky than managed to alienate all of Joyces’ friends with just plain rudeness, after she came screaming out of the closet. (coming out was good, going nuts not so much).
Becky chased Joyce’s (boy) friend Ethan out of the room.
Becky accepted $20 from Billy to stop annoying her and used it to get a new haircut instead of giving it to Joyce to help pay her own way.
Becky has passively worked Joyce to buy her new clothes.
Becky has paraded down the dorm halls, not once but twice, in front of the RA, after she has been told to stay low. She will get Joyce kicked out of school if she keeps it up.
And now Joyce has lied to her mother (a first for her) to cover Becky.
What Becky has NOT done is attempt to help herself now. She has not attempted to find a job off campus. She has not attempted to see what organizations can help her get started on her own.
Said it before and say it again: how in Hell did she get into Anderson, because her Father paid. Doesn’t seem like it was for her smarts.
She’s got the common sense of a gold fish.
Hope this wakes her up and she starts trying to help herself a little now she’s got Joyce behind her to help.
“I don’t like Becky because of the way she has been acting, not because of her sexual orientation.”
“I stopped feeling sorry really quickly. Because:
Becky made a major move on her BF with no provocation,”
I’m not sure what you are trying to say, are these statements in conflict? Becky dumped a lot of emotions on Joyce without any warning. She didn’t even try to ask if Joyce felt the same way as her before kissing her. It doesn’t have anything to do with her sexual orientation, if Becky was a straight male friend it would still be just as bad.
Just noting that the statement professing that their particular manifestation of hating Becky and seeing her as doing no right could not possibly be related to her queerness was immediately followed by the first examples of this being about her queerness.
Which I think is what’s often annoying, at least to me, is because its a subtle but not great expression of an unspoken prejudice. Not a burn all the gay people at the stake kind of prejudice, but rather a perspective where actions that are queer are viewed as equivalent to moral wrongdoing and a reason to dislike a person or where a double standard is applied to a character owing to her minority status as a queer individual.
I think it would ruffle my feathers less personally if the people I saw hating on Becky a) stuck to her very real character flaws (immature like Walky, carrying anti-atheist, biphobic, and other baggage from her religious upbringing, using inappropriate humor to hide emotional pain, limited initial understanding of consent, and so on) while akso b) consistently condemning that behavior aginst all who show that negative behavior (so like if the people who are annoyed by her immaturity are also down on Walky for his similar habits of deflecting with jokes and immature humor) and c) not also including things that aren’t really on Becky as part of “Becky’s flaws”.
And it’s that last part I see the most frequently pop up. Placing blame on Becky for the social products of cultural homophobia, viewing her having a shit situation and talking about it as a form of inflicting that shit situation on others, blaming her for the way her shit situation creates reflected feels for others, treating proud queer expression as a strike against her, and/or blaming her for the reflected trauma of her experiences feels at least to me like stating that someone shat upon by society for being queer is responsible for that shitting and should be in a position of penitent apology (which Becky is in, what with her meltdown at dinner last night and on the night she visited, but somehow that keeps getting overlooked by Becky haters).
And that’s before getting into the whole thing with hating her for not using $20 to magically make a terrible situation go away and how that fits into a weird narrative about poverty where the poor are seen as needing to deprive themselves of any form of mental self care and are viewed as being in the wrong if they dare show happiness or try and find pride in themselves because they are not being the “good, sympathetic victim”.
And I think its a subtle strain worth bringing out into the open and discussing openly, because its something I’ve seen in the real world used as an excuse in the mistreatment of queer youth in similar situations. Asking people shat upon from bigotry robbing them of homes, love, support, families, communities to apologize for the effects of that bigotry, asking people struggling with people casually trying to murder them or discrimination or homelessness or disownment or rape to keep silent about those experiences because thinking about someone suffering those things feels hard, and overall, placing queer individuals that are already in a bad situation to carry the added weight of protecting everyone else from having to adapt to a world where they exist or where bad things are routinely done to them and what that says about the world we live in.
It’s an enforcement of a type of closet and a common infection of the sort of thing that results in the numbers and experiences Leslie was talking about while people try and ignore and prevents those problems from being addressed and fixed in a real way.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just biased to be annoyed by these behaviors because I volunteer as mentor to a lot of young people in similar situations to Becky and have had a lot of friends go through similar stuff to Becky and worse and be blamed for it by people and how that’s led to suicide attempts and massive depression.
the fact that you have to state repeatedly it’s not because of her sexual orientation leads me to believe you dont quite believe yourself
also basically every character in this story has about that level of moral depravity (the ones that dont are exceptions) and they’re favorites, but Becky pulls and and because she’s poor it’s seen as irresponsible. We laugh when Walky is irresponsible because OH THEM COLLEGE AGE BOYS but Becky demonstrates pretty much the same level stuff and… you hate on her because she’s poor.
I am so sick of people scrutinizing every penny poor queer people spend. Honestly
With the exception of Dorothy, Becky hasn’t been any more rude to Joyce’s friends than Joyce had been when she had started to get to know them.
Becky has come from a very repressive environment and as I read it the best way she can counter that is by being out, loud and proud. Can you explain what you mean by her going nuts?
The hair cut reads as self care especially since she is still processing her fathers disowning and flight from him. When she got the 20 from Billie it became her money and in the end Becky used her own money to get the hair cut instead of getting someone else to pay for it.
Becky pointing out that wearing a sweater vest everyday is likely to get them caught isn’t passivly making Joyce buy her clothes, it’s pointing to an obvious flaw in their plan.
Becky wasn’t on parade when she came back from the hall bathroom because the shared one was occupied, it was bad-luck/plot that she ran into Ruth but it was handled well. Sometimes students use the bathrooms on other floors in the dorms it’s not really an issue. The second time she was in the hall this morning Joyce made a scene by yelling about how much skin Becky was showing. Even if Joyce gets caught hiding Becky in her room the school is more likely to hit Joyce with a fine as opposed to kicking her out especially for a first offense.
Joyce lying to her parents about Becky is a bridge she knew she would have cross, and it was a much plan than whatever mishmash of accents Becky planned on using.
Please remember that this is currently day 3 of Becky’s flight from her father, and Joyce is trying to keep Becky around all of the time so it’s not like she has had any time to look for a job. The only free time she’s had so far was when she got the hair cut which was self care. There’s every reason to believe that Joyce’s room was locked at this point so it’s not like she could even go online to look for a job, especially since the college computers wound require a login so that non-students cannot use them. Becky doesn’t know this campus or who/where to ask for help in this situation. Suddenly being on your own doesnt magically make you an expert on what to do, the same way turning 18 doesn’t magically make you a mature adult.
You keep on saying that you dislike Becky not because of her sexual orientation but several things you mention have to do with how Becky has handled coming out. I really think at this point you’re just looking for things to be angry about when you could flip that around and try to be understanding.
And, I don’t know how you expected that $20 dollar conversation to go.
“Hey Joyce, here’s $20 to help you help me.”
“Jeez, Becky, you probably need that more than I do right now.”
“becky’s probably not that big on five anyway”
Please tell me you’re not Lutheran. #obscurescripturediscrepancyjokes
Not just Lutheran, and not that obscure. >_>
Well, consider everything, she would be the best one to manage get away with lies as her parents would have serious issues with imagine her even thinking about going against one of the commands she have been learned to follow;)
Becky doesn’t care about murder?!?!
The fact Joyce is actually hiding a secret lesbian in her home from persecuting fundamentalists is kind of disturbingly WW2-esque.
Especially since the Nazis went after gays as well as Jews.
Yikes, I read that as “the Nazis went gay for Jews” out of the corner of my eye.
…
What could have been.
*sigh* What could have been.
So I only ever read Shortpacked! up to dating sober Mike, and then stopped cause I was caught up. Checked out Dumbing of Age too, cause I liked Shortpacked! Never knew about the Roomies, Its Walky, Joyce and Walky comics, so I thought everyone in DoA was just made up for this particular comic. I never really put much thought into Robin and Mike having a mysterious past at the time. I’m really glad I went back through SP enough to see these characters pop up, and made myself go on a Roomies and IW binge the past couple days. I feel like my eyes have been opened. So much stuff has suddenly clicked into place, and I had no idea that any of it was kinda off. Wow. I’m just gonna say that I love these comics even more now, especially since I have now finished all the other stories. Keep up the amazing work! I’m even more excited for DoA now that I know how all the alternate versions fit together!
wow you should give her a hug
wait a minute, I’m having this thought in response to every strip
I’m with you. That’s a good ending to almost every strip.
I dunno, the strips where there are only guys might lead to a bit of confusion.
How about “Give everyone hugs”?
MY PEOPLE! I’ve finally found you!
Bloody hell. There are more than 10 commandments??? I’ve been lied to … again?
Ach, lying to your parents is a rite of passage. Mind you, I can imagine Joyce’s mum – if she’s anything like my mother – at the other end going “I think there may be something wrong, and we should pay a visit.”
Becky may be insensitive on a bunch of subject, but this hits really home for her. She’s in the best position to understand fully what Joyce did and how much it represents.
—
Now, then. Off-panel Sarah, please give them a hug ;_;
The lying thing is a problem because some churches teach all sins are equally evil–which leads to some very very dumb things as we see above.
Hey, 80% is still a first in the UK! (Approximately equivalent to a US 4.0GPA.)
Stick with the George Carlin version of the commandments, honey.
She’s still in violation of Commandment 1: Thou shalt always be honest and faithful.
Dunno, she’s still being pretty faithful to Becky. And I think most people would agree that honesty is pretty bendable if someone’s well-being is in danger.
It just hit me. Becky’s dressed like Fry from Futurama.
I read the rollover and thought “Becky is a Murderer???”– Then I remembered that Willis was raised Protestant.
The different #ing creates much hilarity in the signs at pro-life rallies. Catholics wonder why the Protestants are calling the mothers “Adulterresses” and Protestants wonder why Catholics are screaming that they should “Honor Mother and Father”
Now if we can get the two groups arguing about the numbering, then no one will be able to get them posted in schools or government buildings. After all, you infringe on my religious practice by making me see a wrongly numbered set of commandments. That’s an abomination.
I took it to mean that Becky had probably shattered five of the ten by now. I’ll leave it to someone else to figure out which five.
Oh, Joyce. ALWAYS answer a question with a question!
Mom: “Joyce, have you heard from Becky?”
Joyce: “Why? Is there something wrong with Becky?”
TECHNICALLY avoiding the lie. Not sure about the honoring thy father and mother thing, though..
Still counts as a sin! That’s a “lie of omission” which counts as a “sin of omission”. An example of a sin of omission is the traveller who didn’t help the injured man in the Good Samaritan parable.
More like a sin of misdirection.
We Aussies often answer a question with a question just because that’s how many Aussies including myself do things.
Plus, the rising inflection that Aussies often use at the end of declarative sentences makes them sound like questions to Americans.
This strip shows how Joyce is such a strong character. She understands she has to go against everything she was taught, everything she believed in, and does it for her friend. She’s taking the difficult path, not liking it one bit, but she does it anyway because she understands she has to do it.
“Hey Joyce, thanks for lying for me, I know that must’ve been hard, but I really appreciate it. You’re an amazing friend.”
Or… “Well you’re PROBABLY not going to hell.”
It’s interesting that you read it that way… I see it as Becky being clearly sad and sorry for the pain she just caused Joyce, and then using humor as a coping mechanism.
I have been thinking… maybe they could get help from Jocelyne… or to be more exactly, Ethan could tell Jocelyne and at least get some advice that could ease Joyce and Becky situation.
Isn’t the punishment for breaking just about any of the ten commandments getting stoned? Someone get her a joint. 😛
Hmm. I think I’ve confused Ex20:12 with Ex21:15&17 and probable a few others.
Actually, it’s the other way round: God created canabis to ease the pains of life.”Es iz gots beyste trayst …. Reykher a splif ….”(Klezmatics, “Reefer Song”)
Wait which two did she break? Obviously honor thy mother and father…probably the sabbath day one as well.
Some people consider the “false witness” one to encompass any lying at all, even if it isn’t slander/libel.
C’mon now, Becky . . . I’m sure she’s already done one of the many, many things that are forbidden on the Sabbath.
Also, by some of the broader definitions of “adultery,” she’s broken that one, too.
“Thou shall not lie” isn’t a commandment!
“Thou shalt not bear false witness” is what gets translated into “though shall not lie,” in addition to Proverbs 6 which lists “a lying tongue” and “a false witness who breathes out lies” among the things the Lord hates.
I’m pretty sure that the false witness thing means that you shall not try and get your neighbor into trouble by telling lies, or pass blame for something you did to your neighbor.
Golly gee, I sure do love Joyce’ outfit
Should’ve just said “Becky? Why, is something wrong?”
Strictly speak, the commandments don’t forbid lying. They forbid giving false witness. That’s (probably) just a subset of lying.
. . . I mean, I learned this in actual (reform) Jewish religious school, so this interpretation is presumably rooted in the original Hebrew. Not that I would have any luck reading it myself.