This is kind of terrible, but it made me laugh…if someone was ‘in the closet’ and the depression this engendered made them overeat, could you not then say they were ‘in the fridge?’
There is no more closet, just a vaguely rectangular-shaped hole in the wall surrounded by scorch marks, broken plaster and exposed bricks. A bent and smoking hangar and shreds of winter coats and scattered Scrabble tiles are all that’s left of the former contents.
Joyce doesn’t have that much influence though. She could probably count on Dorothy and Sierra being willing to put Becky up for a bit and maybe Billie and Sal after them but that’s about it. She likely wouldn’t ask Amber and Dina and doesn’t know the other girls that well.
I’m kinda hoping that when Mary shows up, Joyce will suddenly snap out of her backtracking haze and stand up for Becky in a manner similar to how she stood up to her parents about Dorothy.
… much as I detest Mary … if everyone who ever behaved as badly as she is was killed … well, overpopulation would be solved, not that I’d be here to enjoy it …
IIRC the logic was:
never seen her wrists + wrist bands (even when half-naked) == hiding a marks from attempted suicide
quite a leap, but I’m not dead certain it couldn’t be true
I think I was the first one to propose it, having noticed that we never see Mary’s wrists. She wears those wristbands when she’s brushing her teeth in her pajamas, she wears them when she’s dressed up for church, she wears them to floor meetings, she wears them when people bust into her room unexpectedly and she’s got nothing else on but her panties. Her only appearance where they’re not visible, she’s wearing a long-sleeved shirt.
The best explanation I can come up with for Mary wanting to keep her wrists covered at all times is that, like Sal and her gloves, she’s covering up scars that she’s ashamed of, either from cutting or from a suicide attempt.
I actually hope I’m wrong. I don’t want to have to feel sympathy for Mary.
Could be. I went through a phase where I’d wear bandannas as wristbands because Joan Jett, but stopped when some people commented on them with concerned looks on their faces, and I figured out that they thought I was trying to hide scars from sissy cuts.
Interesting. It could explain a lot about her. Potential story – came out/was found out, sent to “Straightening Camp”, tried to kill herself by slitting wrists, locked up in psych ward, Docs deal with both suicidal & homosexual “problems”, comes out “fixed” but total bongo…
Actually, I doubt it. Willis has gone on record stating that sexualities won’t be changing and as far as I can tell from my last binge, Mary is straight as a arrow.
But I don’t know. Danny acted straight too, and he’s bi.
Trouble is that Mary is far from stupid, and good at detecting single-points-of-failure.
Non-zero chance that however cool Becky’s reaction is, Mary’s response will be “Tell school, police, and/or Becky’s parents, then watch the consequences while completely secure in the knowledge that you followed the rules AND the Lord’s work, while emitting weapon’s grade Smug Radiation.”
While I’m enjoying her exuberant self-acceptance, Becky is coming out to almost complete strangers and, as others have noted, drawing a lot of attention to herself, when she is very vulnerable. Maybe IU is now a bastion of openness and tolerance, but I would regretfully say she is being incredibly reckless.
If her situation wasn’t so inherently fraught, her mood swings would suggest bipolar disorder … as it is I think its a pretty safe bet that there will be a lot of wailing an gnashing of teeth (aka Damn you Willising) when the inevitable human nastiness brings her back down …
TL-DR: Becky seems incredibly fragile and unstable I fear that the dark side of the Willis’ will is setting us up for an … intense … few weeks …
I would regretfully say she is being incredibly reckless.
Bingo. To put it in perspective, even straight people who don’t have to worry about societal censure might avoid mentioning their boyfriend or girlfriend to, say, a really creepy co-worker. Not having to hide anymore is great, but there are always some people you would like to have minimum knowledge about your life.
I find myself suspecting that Becky is doing this explicitly because Joyce told her to keep it under wraps, and Becky has no intention of carrying on the bigotry-based closet thing now that she’s started her new evil-dad-free life.
This also might be her (awesome) way of telling Joyce that she’s being an asshole.
Did Joyce actually tell her to keep it under wraps? I think Joyce assumed she would do it – especially since that’s what Becky did on her own all day yesterday – and now is blown away by the fact that she isn’t. Becky has in fact not stopped for a second and allowed Joyce to explain or even react.
I don’t think that Becky is being reckless by coming out to these characters. She knows that Walky and Billie will be accepting, and is taking a chance with Mike, but that happens. As far as we can tell these are a few of her coming outs that are on her terms, and an unfortunate by product of our society is that we non-straight people have to keep coming out due to the constant assumption that everyone is straight.
I also don’t think Becky is overcompensating, to me she’s on the upswing out of her depression of being closeted and having runaway, for now she’s safe and her best friend is trying to supporting her. I’m also glad that shes talking over Joyce’s discomfort because Becky coming out is only about Becky and has nothing to do with Joyce.
But she is D: I have to agree with tyersome: drawing attention on herself like that, when it’s against the rules for her to share Joyce and Sarah’s room, is a terrible idea. There’s simply no way this isn’t going to end with her getting busted.
Exactly, my point is not that coming out is bad … we can see how well being closeted works in comic and I’ve seen how much stress it can put on real people first hand …
However, yelling it in the hallways to people she’s met once? When there are likely to be complete strangers overhearing, some of whom could be malevolent?
It would be great for her if she attracts supportive attention that leads to her finding a safe and stable place to live, but this seems like a very high-risk strategy that I wouldn’t recommend to anyone in her situation.
The fact that society at large and shitty people in general punish members of certain marginalized communities means that it’s *always* risky to exist openly and genuinely without hiding who you are. However, that does not make it irresponsible or reckless to do so, or to be proud and public about who you are. To say it is would suggest it’s somehow *her* prerogative to prevent homophobic folks from doing homophobic shit, which is pretty victim-blamey.
I understand that this is a very emotional issue and agree that a sane society wouldn’t require anyone to be closeted about anything that didn’t harm other people. Unfortunately we don’t live in that society and I have doubts about whether humans ever will …
Your response seems to be ignoring several things:
1) you seem to be endorsing that idea that the most vulnerable and isolated people should shoulder the costs of societal improvement without regards to their personal safety
2) there is a huge difference between trying to prevent victimization and victim blaming
3) this is not just about her orientation — drawing a lot of attention to herself in any manner before knowing how she is going to support and house herself is a big risk.
Okay I see the point you were making and re-reading your comments now I see what I both misread and misinterpreted. I do still believe that she would know that Billie and Walky would be safe to come out to but yelling it was a little over the top in the grand scheme of her situation.
This is more or less what I expected after yesterday. Becky is open and honest so no reason to bug her, but Joyce is clearly still not being honest with herself or Becky, so she needs a dose of Mike
Hmm… I’d say Mike is not necessarily a conflict generator, but maybe more like a conflict miner or unearther, if you will. Generally, it seems like the conflict was already there, but it was buried so people could ignore it, until he brought it into the light.
Yes, Mike is definitely Mr. Most Likely to Toss a Grenade Into a Social Situation (surprised he didn’t offer Becky a nickel to prove she’s a lesbian). However, in this case, Mike is using Joyce’s own words against her. She was Suzy Sanctimonious about how bad homosexuals are; now that she’s learned her best friend is one she’s having to do some furious backtracking.
Yeah, but she’s still a freckled lean red headed girl. That’s similar enough that questions would be asked.
Just like if my next girlfriend was another chubby black lady!
Oh, the incident of a question being asked in that situation is of a rather high probability, indeed. I only wanted to protest the “[…] looks so much like […]” part. It might seem a bit nitpicky, but to me, it was so far off, I had to say something.
I find Ruths reaction to such an event hard to tell and am in no Position to attack your speculation. Especially since I have yet to undestand the seemingly inherent pronlems with having a type. (Y’all are welcome to enlight me, of course.)
So the problem would rather be that other people assume to fast that the first is the case (“You only like me for my haircolour!”)? This would make sense (to me, anyway).
One of the problems anyway … there certainly do seem to people who are so fixated on whatever their type is that they ignore important considerations (e.g. compatible personalities or world-views, or warning signs) and keep ending up in unhappy or abusive relationships because all they see is the type …
Mary’s a bad person, but that doesn’t necessarily make her a bad character. She’s a villain, but that means she’s a plot catalyst. I didn’t vote for her, but I can imagine that people might do so unironically. And not even the kind of people who make me wonder why they’re even reading Willis’s comics.
(Actually, I just noticed that all three of my votes went to ladies who are into ladies, so I guess I’m with Walky here.)
She is good antagonist, and has the potential to be a great one.
Dramas are often live or die by the quality of their antagonists.
Poorly written villains = waste of narrative.
Mary began in Roomies as a 2-dimensional saccharine holier-than-thou Christian , who is revealed to have charcter depth as an antagonist.
This arc she starts out openly as heart-as-black-as-coal holier-than-thou 2- 2-dimensional Christian , who slowly reveals more complexity.
She is a scene stealer and someone we love to hate.
I picked her part as wish-fulfillment because I want Willis to develop her more . She is still too hard to identify with. I want her to be more real — yet still evil.
I think she has tremendous dramatic possibilities with many of the characters. She might even be redeemable .
So no, not for the lolz, for the story
I completely agree with your reasons. I’m more and more fascinated by Mary, especially how she has managed to gain herself villain status without doing very much except some snide remarks. She still has her full growth potential both as a character and a narrative device in front of her and it will be glorious.
Thanks,
I had to think through her previous encounters to see if you were right, vis-a-vis only snide remarks.
I found I disagree. Her words were not throwaway jokes.
They established mal-intent, motivation, and intentions, with attempts to overtly and covertly persuade.
After the church, she tries to get Joyce to socially ostratice her friends.
She swings from phony-charm to verbal abuse on a dime, in an attempt to wind up her abusive RA against the floor.
She attempt to shame and guilt Billy in front of the other christian girls because she suspects Billy was with Ruth; and attempts touse her friendship with Joyce against Billy. She has Joyce to apply christian abuse to Billy. This also establishes that she is devious , monitoring Billy and Ruth and will act on it given the chance.
There is still an open issue in DOA of whether she practices her judgmental beliefs on herself or only against others. How hypocritical is she?
In Roomies those questioned are more answered more. Sorry, NO spoilers.
( I didnt read roomies and shortpacked till this year.
I was clueless when the new characters of Blaine and Faz appeared and people already hated them.
I also didnt know who was Amazi-girl. Sure obvious in hindsight But it could have been a new character. Kudos for the lack of spoilers on that. )
You are right, “snide remarks” is a complete under-estimation. I think I meant lack of concrete results so far. Compared to buttholes like Blaine and Ross she has not done much real damage yet. But the intentions are there. That’s of course part of what makes her interesting. We know that she’s up to something.
After they leave, Billie stands there in silence for a few seconds, then goes upstairs to her room and checks her deodorant. She spies a never before noticed label. “Warning: May act as a pheromone for redheaded lesbians”.
Well, I’m relieved that Becky so far hasn’t been upset by Joyce trying to suppress this. Hopefully that continues; I’m sure Becky understands where Joyce is mentally.
Although I assume that Becky’s too caught up in her enthusiasm to pay it much attention.
Becky has made a long time hobby of upsetting Joyce. OF COURSE she understands what it does to Joyce when a closet-explosion is sprung on her with no warning whatsoever. I just hope that she’s ready to catch Joyce in the fallout (and that she’s prepared for how much worse Mike is going to make it)
I wouldn’t say that she’s referred to herself specifically as lesbian – she’s said that Billie and her found out she was into girls together, Howard was the one alluding to her being ‘lesbian pregnant’, and when he asked if she was full-on lesbian, she just shrugged and went, ‘I dunno, maybe?’ which isn’t really definite.
The only other instance would be asking Billie if they’d entered a ‘sexy lesbian suicide pact’, which would be referring to their relationship, which is certainly lesbian, in that it’s two girls.
> The only other instance would be asking Billie if they’d entered a ‘sexy lesbian suicide pact’, which would be referring to their relationship, which is certainly lesbian, in that it’s two girls.
Someone objected to a description of Danny’s “gay moments” yesterday, so I’m not sure if it’s accepted or not to use “gay/lesbian” to refer to things relating to two people of the same sex who may be bisexual.
‘Showing attraction to a dude’ is not ‘proof’ of bisexuality. That’s like saying people in a long-term relationship (either same or opposite sex relationship) are not bisexual because you haven’t seen them show attraction to anyone except their partner.
Also, there are PLENTY of bisexuals who only ever date one gender (but are attracted to more than one but never act on it) or who strongly prefer one gender over the others – that doesn’t make them any less bisexual.
> ‘Showing attraction to a dude’ is not ‘proof’ of bisexuality. That’s like saying people in a long-term relationship (either same or opposite sex relationship) are not bisexual because you haven’t seen them show attraction to anyone except their partner.
Not really. Being proof of something is not the same thing as being a requirement.
True, but there aren’t really ‘requirements’. Just as there is no ‘proof’ when it comes to bisexuality. Your sexuality is what you define it as. Also, sexual attractions ≠ sexual actions. We can’t look into Ruth’s head and Willis has repeatedly referred to her as bi, so that is what she is. Everything else is bi erasure.
Goddammit, that’s my point. If people were saying it were required, that would be offensive. Talking about “proof” is not offensive, unless it comes with an implication that you will somehow refuse to recognize someone’s self-identified* orientation without it. An implication you are imagining
*Though, if you asked Danny, he’d tell you he’s straight.
Also, doesn’t that mean it’s a choice? Isn’t the ENTIRE point of the ongoing trainwreck that is Ethan’s character arc, and the reason we consider people like Becky’s dad to be evil, that it’s not? That it’s an objective fact about someone? If you can’t choose your orientation, then you can’t “define” it either.
No, it’s not the same thing. At least not the way I meant it. Like, for example. I’m bi, right, and when I date someone, I always *always* have to make a point of defining my sexuality because otherwise it would become invisible. And I’m quite proud of my sexuality and I’d never want it to become invisble. That’s what I meant.
Also, people calling themselves gay because it’s ‘easier’ than to have to explain being bi or pan or anything else – I have a lot of friends who do that. That’s not what I would do, but it’s their right. Their right to define themselves how they want.
Like, even being in the closet is a choice. Ethan can’t change who he *is*, but he can change how he defines himself. Currently, to the world (except Amber and Joyce and whoever else knows the truth) he defines himself as straight. But we all know he isn’t. I’m not saying that’s good or healthy, but it’s his prerogative. He’s lying. To himself, most importantly. But, like, no one has a right to define himself for him. That’s why forcibly outing people is so terrible, because what if they’re not ready?
Not saying that I don’t want every single queer person in the world to be comfortable enough in their own sking to come out, but that’s just not the case. People need time. And even if they’re out, they still have the right to define themselves how they please. I mean. Do you understand this or am I just not making sense? lol
This is the moment where there would be a huge showstopping number involving tap dancing and Becky being lifted up onto peoples’ shoulders if Dumbing of Age were a musical.
Yes I am a lesbian – (chorus: leeeesbian)
A connoisseur of the fairer gender
Yes I am a lesbian – (chorus: leeeesbian)
If that’s a crime I’m the worst offender
Although life’s not always perfectly swiminin’
I’m here to sample your finest wimmin
So come every leeeeesbian
And give me some SKIN
I was just thinking that. Except to the tube of “What’s This?” in the Nightmare before Christmas.
“Guess what? I’m Gay! Tell everyone around”
“It’s not you’re joking! Stop making all those sounds!”
…
“It’s True! I’m Gay! Whoever could have guessed?
I always think of women, when other talk of boys,
I’d rather do with girlfriends, what other do with toys,
It was so strange at first
but now I’m feeling like on fire
Oh I won’t keep it inside I want the world to know – I’m Gay!”
He’s been in an intro level gender studies class for one month, and wasn’t exactly enlightened on the subject when he entered. Leslie’s not a miracle worker.
Yeah, it’d probably be best for Becky to try to just blend into the crowd and not draw attention at this point. Of course, if the crowd in question consists mostly of lesbians, than maybe Becky’s actually doing the inconspicuous thing, heh.
Respect for Joyce had gone up, and now it’s plummeting down. That’s enough kidding around? Seriously? I’m very frustrated that she’s trying to shove her friend into the closet.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarsh. People aren’t all good or all bad, you know. I will never understand how people expect Joyce to magically become perfect all at once. She’s working on it. (And Mike’s here to make it all the more difficult. Hi, Mike.)
Having the potential to be a good person doesn’t make you a good person. If you still do dickish things all the time you can’t just asterisk that and say “Well she was raised that way, or she’ll grow out of it or bla bla bla”. What matters is how insufferable she is NOW. And right NOW she’s pretty unlikeable to me.
I think Joyce is still to concerned about how other people perceive her. She can deal with Becky being gay in private, but having it be public is to much for her to handle. She’s grown but she still has a long way to go.
Idk I think asking people to not be homophobic is not that big of a hurtle. Like, I’m sure Joyce will get there but I’m not inclined to make a bunch of excuses for her right now. She fucked up.
It’s likely because she is still sorting things out mentally herself and now there is 895665 times more stress on her to sort out her views.
She WANTS to sort out her own views on it before it is revealed to everyone else but even if it isn’t her choice to make, Becky revealing it to everyone is incredibly stressful for her because she still doesn’t know whether she fully supports it or not.
It is incredibly stressful because she is not ready for people like Mike who’d say ‘I thought you believed such and such’.
Becky IS ready to tell everyone, but Joyce is not ready to handle it all yet as she STILL believed homosexuality was wrong just the day before.
I understand why Becky is doing this, maybe even needs to do this, but… she is only thinking of herself at the moment, and not her friend who only found out about all of this maybe twelve hours ago. And, IMO, has not slept since then.
I mean, she gets to only think about herself in this instance. Joyce can sort through her homophobia in private imo, Becky can talk about being lesiban in public. Because only one of those things is something you should be ashamed of.
You are completely right that Becky has every right to come out to any one she likes in whatever manner she likes (and about the only manner more awesome than this would be a full blown musical).
But because of a combination of factors, including the standard rotten luck of Dumbing of Age characters and one of the few character flaws Becky has shown this far in my opinion (a certain carelessness with Joyce’s feelings – she knows her relationship with Walky and used it to greath lengths to push her buttons yesterday) – she sprung this particular thing in the worst company possible from Joyce point of view.
Imagine the same scene with Dorothy and Sierra.
Becky: “I’M A LESBIAN”
Joyce: “Hehe, stop kidding….”
Becky: “Not kidding, telling everyone now. Hey, Billie…”
Dorothy: “I’m glad for your friends sake and I proud of you. It’s not always easy to do the right thing.”
Sierra: “Let’s bring her to church tomorrow.”
Same Joyce slip-up, a much safer space to get to grips with it.
This wasn’t unsafe for Becky though? It went fine. All that happened was Joyce was made uncomfortable, because she’s homophobic and has said homophobic things. Is the argument here that Joyce should not have to feel even mildly uncomfortable or embaressed about her homophobia? Like good, I’m glad she’s uncomfortable.
I suppose I mostly react to the forum comments that hate Joyce for her reaction. Yeah, you are right – it is a good thing that she comes to term with the homophobia that is inherent in her belief system.
But I really can’t see why it would be a better for her to be confronted by it by a mean spirited bully rather than in a setting more akin to this
Sure. Okay. You’re right. Let’s keep hammering on all the weak points in Joyce’s psyche at once. And when she finally breaks – because she wasn’t able to immediately (literally, overnight) and completely discard the belief structure she’s been indoctrinated in for her entire life upon being confronted with the rightness of right-thinking people – well, that’ll be entirely her fault. For not being good enough, resilient enough, or open-minded enough.
Really, even a sheltered and home-schooled 18-year-old should be able to just cope with everything Joyce has been through in the last few weeks, let alone the last twelve hours; and not merely choose to side with her best friend against everything she’s been taught (risking, by those same teachings, eternal damnation), but construct a flawless theological justification for it, make living arrangements for said friend, and prepare remarks for any critics – before breakfast! That Joyce hasn’t done any but the first of these clearly shows that she’s a weak, homophobic little ***** who deserves nothing but scorn.
There is nothing wrong with defending Joyce’s current reactions since its only the day after Becky’s reveal in the story timeline. It’s completely in character for her to be uncomfortable right now, but Becky has no obligation to temper how/when she comes out to people because of how Joyce feels.
Coming out is deeply personal and unless your outed, you come out when you are ready not when someone else can deal with it.
If the two of them were in a mutual relationship and both closeted then Becky would have a reason to take Joyce’s feeling into account but that’s not the case here.
I’m not sure if there’s sarcasm or not so my goal was diffusion and to supply what I know from both my personal experience of coming out and talking to other out and closeted individuals.
Can you not jump all over someone because they don’t want to automatically make excuses for Joyce’s homophobia? Like its really grossing me out that people are literally bending over backwards to justify Joyce’s behavior here. Yes, nobody’s perfect, yes Joyce is learning, yes she is trying to an extent- But she’s also being super homophobic and we are allowed to not like that. we are allowed to judge her for that. I won’t hold it against her once she improves, but no, I’m not going to go easy on her when she’s being asshole.
Keep in mind this all just happened last night and it goes against everything she was taught to believe. Cognitive dissonance doesn’t get solved that easily.
I’m not expecting Joyce to suddenly be wearing rainbow shirts with “Some people are gay, get over it” written on it. I’m not expecting her to be 100% over her previous feelings. What I am expecting is for her to make an attempt to be supportive of her friend, even if it just means holding her tongue. Attempting to make it seem as thought Becky is lying about her sexuality as a joke isn’t supportive. It’s rude, and uncalled for.
Why wouldn’t she? Nothing she’s ever experienced indicates that homosexuality is a good thing. |She’s been raised to believe it’s sin that ruins your life and sends you to Hell, Ethan’s fed into these notions with his own idiocy and even Becky’s story basically boils down to ‘my hideous secret got out and now I’m alone and unloved’. Of course Joyce is going to assume Becky should stay closeted and pretend to be straight, she doesn’t know any better and given her own crippling fear of sexuality she couldn’t imagine herself being out and proud.
It’s not specifically established, but Mike rarely refers to anyone by their actual name, even in the old universe, usually opting for derogatory terms. Offhand I can only think of Amber, Jacob, Billie, and maybe Ethan and Galasso, across both universes.
I think that the title, Dumbing of Age strongly suggests that it’s going both up and down simultaneously. Also, the fleshling author has a history of rapid fire ups and downs.
True, but getting mad about it is probably a better place for her to be than trying to grin and pretend it isn’t happening again.
Harder to lie to yourself when you’re angry. I imagine particularly so if you’ve got Mike there bringing into the light everything you’re trying to hide away.
I like Mike. He won’t let her get away with any bullshit.
In my headcanon, you feel the need to change your grav at all times. But there is this arc in your backstory when you attempted to change your grav 24 times per second to create a smooth animation. This did upset the gravatar admins so much that they decided to enforce strict rules on when you, specifically, may change your grav. The points in time you are allowed to do this depend on (including, but not limited to): The alignment of the stars, the number of butterflies in the Bermudatriangle, the tides, the mood of the microflora in the intestines of Linus Torvalds and the exact angle of the tower of Pisa.
Dear Rorror, we are sorry but we must reject your hypothesis as you’ve made an unforgivable series of errors in you calculations … you totally neglected the all important contributions from the fluctuations in the solar wind and estrus cycles in the Herpestidae.
tyersome: I explicitly stated “not limited to”. In related news, I see what you did there, approve of it and am a little embarrassed I didn’t do it myself.
Plasma Mongoose, otusasio451: The important thing is rather: A Gravatar account you can actually access. I somehow lost my password and had to make a new one. This is why I’ve commented on this very comic with two different gravs.
Have I mentioned recently how much I love Becky? Because I do. Iove her personality, I love her constant big giant grin, I love her effortless pushing of Joyce’s boundaries that need to be pushed. She’s an unbeatable character.
Joyce is going to snap and swear eventually, but that won’t be happening anytime soon. I don’t think Joyce can get angry enough to swear at her best friend
Welp. So much for Joyce being honest with whatever decision she decides to make.
Love Mike with a purple passion: he does as stated above,dive right smack onto the point that will make his target face up to their stupidity, or whatever, and stir up a storm because of it. Brutely honest if nothing else.
Get ready to make another big step growing up and out or…Joyce you got some explaining to do to Becky when she comes down off her ‘I’m a lesbian high’.
I love Becky, but the real action is between Mike and Joyce. Mike, with his asshole fu, recalls the time Joyce stated she was clearly against homosexuality. Joyce must now confront herself and reflect upon her previous words to see whether or not they hold any weight now that she knows her best friend is a lesbian.
Well considering he’s totally leaving Becky alone and going right after Joyce I’m pretty sure he’s doing it for a reason. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t enjoy it or isn’t an asshole though.
More than any other character, my emotional reaction to Mike is colored by other-universe Mike. But if we look at Mike strickly in the DOA universe he hasn’t actually been Mike-ishly awsome up to this point. Punching Joe isn’t up to Mike-ish standards and the whole pajama pants thing was actually something of a misfire and the perminant ding-dong marker was a lucky accident.. The exchange with Amazigirl showed promise but did little more than make her temporarily uncomfortable.
And this is something that makes complete sense to me. Like the rest of the characters, we have a younger, dumber, less experienced version of Mike. The asshole part comes naturally, but the development of the inspired mental judo that let’s him so brilliantly make people hurt themselves emotionally for his enjoyment AND their own good, still lies in the future. This incident with Joyce is the first time we see Mike potentually operating in full blown Mike mode, although admitedly, Joyce at this juncture is something like shooting fish in a barrel. But you start small. All in all, I am looking forward to watching Mike’s unique artistic development in this Universe almost as much as I’m lookkng forward to watching this Univerce’s Jacob’s discovery of his suseptibility to sexual addiction.
And when she tries to lie about it, he brings up that she also said she hated lying. This is why I like the guy, despite him being a complete flaming asshole.
Rose has only appeared in one panel in this universe, so it’s hard to tell for sure. But in the other universe, she dated a guy. On the other hand, she worked at McAwesome’s, so by the Walky Theorem, she’s a McLesbian. I therefore conclude that she’s bi.
Please elaborate–Rose was dating a male cow orker at McAwesome’s. So far as I can tell, McAwesome’s employees had the same orientation as their evil twins at Galasso’s, which would be Amber in this case. What is the Walky Theorem?
It’s an old internet cliche; back in the days of usenet someone wrote something about one of their coworkers and people began making jokes like “why would anyone want to ork a cow?”. So, whenever I have occasion to use the word coworker, I insert and unnecessary space between the “w” and the “o”.
It was a joke off Walky’s first-panel allegation that Becky is awesome because she’s a lesbian. Rose worked at McAwesome’s, therefore…
Hmm. If McAwesome’s employees have the same orientation as their evil counterparts at Shortpacked!, and Dumbiverse characters have the same orientation as their Walkyverse counterparts, that’d imply that Agatha is “generally kinda undefinably queer”. I wouldn’t have guessed it.
Huh. The correspondence between the orientation of characters in the Walkyverse and the Dumbiverse is Word Of God, while the correspondence between the orientation of McAwesome’s employees and Galasso’s employees is just an observation of mine. Walkypedia makes no mention of Agatha’s orientation, but says that in the Walkyverse she is the counterpart of Robin. In Shortpacked, Robin is “straight with an exception”, a rather major exception as it turned out. Make of that what you will.
“Just a heads up, Joyce, I’m not going to stay hidden. I’m going to tell everyone that I’m a lesbian.”
“What, but, bluh…”
“It’s OK, take a few minutes to wrap your head around it. I’m not going to change my mind but I don’t want to spring it on you.”
“Well… OK, but could you at least not start with Mike within earshot? He always finds a way to get under my skin and this is all new to me.”
I just want to point out that Becky didn’t give Joyce the above heads up, so I think we can forgive her not to react perfectly saintly.
Ehh….yeah but maybe if she didnt go around saying homophobic stuff this wouldn’t be such a problem. Not that she’s not learning, I’m just saying I’m not gonna give her a thumbs up for this one. She’ll get better.
Changing your mind isn’t the same as being hypocritical. That said she did do it in a matter of seconds just last night (there was some movement before, but that was the actual switch), so she is still trying to adjust. But she isn’t a hypocrite.
But she hasn’t yet changed her mind, she’s still in the conflict phase. That’s why she had to look up biblical translations; she needed to find a loophole to fit her own worldview.
I’m going to give Joyce half marks here — she did accept Becky, but then she did something which she herself acknowledges to be hypocritical: she looked up concordances to try to justify her response. Had her thinking been “The Bible appears to be wrong here, so I should go look and see why it isn’t,” then I’d have given her full marks. Unfortunately, during her discussion with Sarah, she admitted that her thoughts didn’t run that way.
Hell, she has been repeatedly stated to have been Joyce’s best friend. (By now I am beginning to suspect she was her only friend, by the way.) Do you think they are so sheltered the topic of Joyce’s views on homosexuality never came up?
I don’t think Becky was Joyce’s only friend. Joyce is an incredibly friend-becoming person: the only two people who don’t like her are Ruth and Mary. As far as anyone on the floor seems to realize, Ruth hates everyone in-story. We know better — she cares about Dorothy when breaking up with Danny, she cares about Amber, she knows about and is protective of Carla…but nobody else seems to realize that. (And notice that I didn’t mention her love affair with Billie. Nobody except Mary should recognize that yet.) Mary? Well, Mary is a hateful hypocrite who doesn’t dislike anyone as much as she loathes them.
Why does Joyce need a heads up? Joyce told Becky to do some “window shopping” in the showers. Joyce told Becky that she didn’t think that what Becky did was a mistake. It’s safe to assume that Becky thought that Joyce would laugh about this, and not care.
I believe Becky knows Joyce well enough to know exactly what reaction she would get. I think Becky just wanted to keep running her and Walky’s joke from yesterday of making Joyce uncomfortable.
The problem is that Joyce didn’t think it was particularly funny then, and with the whole soul wrenching drama from yesterday – and Mike (the one thing Becky wasn’t able to foresee) – it’s even less funny now.
But if Becky wants to she can definitely turn her coming out into an ill-thought out joke at Joyce’s expense. My point was more directed to the comments that condemns Joyce for her reaction.
Amazzing. I love Becky so much. I also really enjoy seeing Joyce squirm about this, idek. Not to be mean or anything, but she’s said some awful stuff and it’s nice seeing her get called on it.
If Ethan didn’t want people to define him by his sexuality, wouldn’t that imply that his sexuality does change him in the sense of how people perceive him? And I think that, in Ethan’s mind, him being gay did change him into something negative and “sinful”, and he still has insecurities about that.
Intentional? I think the problem is that Becky isn’t really putting much thought into ANYTHING. All action without forethought.
Ultimately, I think Joyce is in a no-win scenario. Fortunately, Joyce has a roommate who’s been through the no good choices wringer, in Sarah. Unfortunately, she’s currently in the presence of Mike, who has just gotten over the initial surprise and is… well… being Mike.
Yep, Joyce is going to have a meltdown, and Becky is going to run away crying saying something like “I thought you didn’t CARE! I thought you were okay with me being ME!”
So I guess Becky is gonna be a series regular now? I hope so! And if so they keep her being awesome! I hate it when shows and comics ruin your favorite characters somehow…
Could we not do the whole “Rainbow Dash is totally a lesbian” Thing? We get it, her mane is rainbow, I love Lesbians, I love the gay ladies, that’s awesome, but the whole “Rainbow Dash is a Lesbian despite no evidence/souly cause of the rainbow mane” Thing is so old DX
I have not been watching the show, but I thought that male ponies did not exist. That would mean that if My Little Ponies are to be ‘shipped at all, lesbian is the only option.
I think I can say with some amount of confidence that Mike easily makes my top five least favorite characters, accompanied by the likes of Amber’s dad, Becky’s dad, and Mary. Unsure of who the other would be.
Let’s not forget Ryan (date-rape guy). Joyce’s mother more than her father: he was willing to listen to her and accept her faith-based “reasoning” as evidence of Joyce’s growing up. Malaya maybe. But definitely Ryan.
Mike is one of the most ethical character on the campus in my honest opinion. He just has a very spiteful, meanspirited, literally punching and stomping, headache inducing way of expressing it. So yeah, he’s incredibly dislikable.
I can only think of one occasion when Mike literally punched anyone—when he chaperoned Joe’s date with Joyce. When did he ever stomp anyone? Mike’s blows are mostly verbal.
To be fair, it seems that Mike limits himself to bring up the thing that a person most NEEDS to hear…and least WANTS to hear; not just gratuitous meanness but the truly irritating “I hate that guy even more because he’s RIGHT, too” 😉
I especially love how Joyce’s head is drawn too close to Mike, or occluded by the panel edge, creating a sense that her cognitive dissonance is closing in on her. I almost feel sorry for her, when she was working so hard just one strip ago to create a tiny little breathing space to accommodate Becky’s sexuality into her comfortable but narrow worldview.
Of course, it’s Billie I really feel for. Joyce’s claustrophobic panels also resulted in Billie’s reaction to this potentially dangerous development (assuming Ruth’s happiness and her own depend on keeping their relationship secret) remaining tantalizingly off-panel.
OMG I just had a revelation. We know that Joyce/Ethan isn’t going anywhere, and Walky appears to be spoken for in this universe. Joyce is going to end up with Mike.
Joyce can’t take a shower without visions of male torsos dancing in her head. I doubt she would really be OK with “no one”, and commitmentless recreational sex probably isn’t compatible with her personality either, even if she managed to completely shed all traces of religion.
That is not an un-possibility, but as Paul points out, the plot pretty unambiguously points toward “Joyce comes to terms with her sexuality”, so even if she doesn’t get paired away Hollywood-style, I think we would all feel a bit psyched if there were no romantic encounters down the road.
Hey, why not Jacob? They’re both into serious relationships, as established, and he already seems to have some kinda obsession with her. Plus it could serve the added purpose of forcing Sarah to confront her misanthropic complacency! I’m shippin’ this.
I’m hoping he and Carla get together and mutually disallow one another from developing as characters. CarlaxMalaya and MikexAmber are fine for some webcomics, but CarlaxMike is the perfect war-ship for DoA. Think of all the damage they could do together!
Hee her! Poor Joyce. She’s making progress, but she can’t do a complete 180 on her attitudes over night! Meanwhile Becky is all “My best friend accepts me! Woo! I can tell the world who I am now!”
Becky was always super impressed with and jealous of Joyce’s school from the very first strip in this whole comic because she always saw it as some wonderful place where you can be free to *be* who you *are*, as opposed to Anderson where she had to keep it a secret – likely an extension of her previous life at home, with her parents. Whenever Joyce was all “I’m not sure if I like it here” Becky was like “What are you kidding your college is the best.” It’s really kind of sad Becky wasn’t given the chance to go there to begin with.
And now she gets invited into this amazing place, so it’s understandable that the first thing she’d want to do would be come out to everyone. She really thinks she can finally be accepted here.
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There are a few other reasons too, Walky, but you have the basic idea.
david wills tweet hahaha
OUT OF THE CLOSET AND INTO THE HALLWAY!
OUT OF THE CLOSET AND INTO THE HALLWAY!
Becky, honey, there’s coming out of the closet, and then there’s nuking the closet into oblivion
Sometimes a nuke is exactly what that particular closet needs.
but wouldnt that kill what ever was in the closet
No. It’s too strong for that, now. THERE’S NO STOPPING THIS.
As soon as I read your post I got Queen stuck in my head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-OTYT02W7E
(Yes I know that wasn’t Freddy Mercury, but the geek in me couldn’t resist posting this version of the song.)
Not if it was in a fridge?
This is kind of terrible, but it made me laugh…if someone was ‘in the closet’ and the depression this engendered made them overeat, could you not then say they were ‘in the fridge?’
Mutual assured comeoutage.
Nuking the closet > nuking the fridge.
There is no more closet, just a vaguely rectangular-shaped hole in the wall surrounded by scorch marks, broken plaster and exposed bricks. A bent and smoking hangar and shreds of winter coats and scattered Scrabble tiles are all that’s left of the former contents.
anyone else think joyce looks like shes getting some suprise butt hanky panky from mike in panel two? or is that just me
Can’t unsee!
Out of the shadows and into the sun?
Becky: OUT OF THE SHADOWS AND INTO THE SUN!
TELL EVERYONE I’M A LES-BI-AN!
*Tremendous.*
I just hope Becky is made of iron XD
WIN! lol
BACK IN THE CLOSET! BACK IN THE CLOSET!
…I attempted to change my Gravatar to a picture of Joyce and it failed. This is a much less effective joke now.
It worked, its just that Gravatar can sometimes take a few minutes, believe me, I’m an expert on gravatars.
Definitely. I’m actually surprised that I’ve seen you on two different days with the same avatar …
But the closet’s been shattered into a million pieces…
Are you singing that to Legal Man by Belle and Sebastian?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-LvqprQnsI
“The uploader has not made this video viewable in your country”
That’s my favourite one.
LOL! 🙂
Oh god… Mary’s reaction is going to suck. Hopefully, Becky’s reaction to Mary’s reaction will be awesome.
… What? You *know* Mary’s going to find out about this.
Predicted it yesterday. Still terrified.
I suspect it’ll be mostly ineffectual in denting her mood. The other shoe will drop when the maximum time for visiting is breached.
Couch-surfing could keep her in the dorm all semester
Joyce doesn’t have that much influence though. She could probably count on Dorothy and Sierra being willing to put Becky up for a bit and maybe Billie and Sal after them but that’s about it. She likely wouldn’t ask Amber and Dina and doesn’t know the other girls that well.
I’m kinda hoping that when Mary shows up, Joyce will suddenly snap out of her backtracking haze and stand up for Becky in a manner similar to how she stood up to her parents about Dorothy.
Dear god I hope so
It’s not likely, knowing Willis, but I really hope so
I also maybe hope she snaps Mary. In three.
That would also be nice
If it wouldn’t get her landed in prison
… much as I detest Mary … if everyone who ever behaved as badly as she is was killed … well, overpopulation would be solved, not that I’d be here to enjoy it …
Yes, Mary is going to find out when Becky announces it to her, obviously.
I’m kind of wondering whether Mary is closeted herself. It fits with the “has attempted suicide” theory.
The what now?
IIRC the logic was:
never seen her wrists + wrist bands (even when half-naked) == hiding a marks from attempted suicide
quite a leap, but I’m not dead certain it couldn’t be true
My working theory is she just has ugly wrists. Extremely localized acne maybe.
Probably just tatoos of chic tracts.
Why would someone like Mary ever hide those though.
…Oh, right, TATTOOS.
I think I was the first one to propose it, having noticed that we never see Mary’s wrists. She wears those wristbands when she’s brushing her teeth in her pajamas, she wears them when she’s dressed up for church, she wears them to floor meetings, she wears them when people bust into her room unexpectedly and she’s got nothing else on but her panties. Her only appearance where they’re not visible, she’s wearing a long-sleeved shirt.
The best explanation I can come up with for Mary wanting to keep her wrists covered at all times is that, like Sal and her gloves, she’s covering up scars that she’s ashamed of, either from cutting or from a suicide attempt.
I actually hope I’m wrong. I don’t want to have to feel sympathy for Mary.
Could be. I went through a phase where I’d wear bandannas as wristbands because Joan Jett, but stopped when some people commented on them with concerned looks on their faces, and I figured out that they thought I was trying to hide scars from sissy cuts.
Interesting. It could explain a lot about her. Potential story – came out/was found out, sent to “Straightening Camp”, tried to kill herself by slitting wrists, locked up in psych ward, Docs deal with both suicidal & homosexual “problems”, comes out “fixed” but total bongo…
Actually, I doubt it. Willis has gone on record stating that sexualities won’t be changing and as far as I can tell from my last binge, Mary is straight as a arrow.
But I don’t know. Danny acted straight too, and he’s bi.
Trouble is that Mary is far from stupid, and good at detecting single-points-of-failure.
Non-zero chance that however cool Becky’s reaction is, Mary’s response will be “Tell school, police, and/or Becky’s parents, then watch the consequences while completely secure in the knowledge that you followed the rules AND the Lord’s work, while emitting weapon’s grade Smug Radiation.”
And that’s the way it’s gonna be.
She keeps getting better. How does she keep getting better?
That, John…that is the mystery of life.
She’s only been fighting with 1 percent of her true power.
What you don’t know, is that she is not left-handed either.
Kaitlin, on the other hand, probably knows ^^
She’s hiding her power levels! The scouters are USELESS!!
How about manic overcompensation?
While I’m enjoying her exuberant self-acceptance, Becky is coming out to almost complete strangers and, as others have noted, drawing a lot of attention to herself, when she is very vulnerable. Maybe IU is now a bastion of openness and tolerance, but I would regretfully say she is being incredibly reckless.
If her situation wasn’t so inherently fraught, her mood swings would suggest bipolar disorder … as it is I think its a pretty safe bet that there will be a lot of wailing an gnashing of teeth (aka Damn you Willising) when the inevitable human nastiness brings her back down …
TL-DR: Becky seems incredibly fragile and unstable I fear that the dark side of the Willis’ will is setting us up for an … intense … few weeks …
I would regretfully say she is being incredibly reckless.
Bingo. To put it in perspective, even straight people who don’t have to worry about societal censure might avoid mentioning their boyfriend or girlfriend to, say, a really creepy co-worker. Not having to hide anymore is great, but there are always some people you would like to have minimum knowledge about your life.
I find myself suspecting that Becky is doing this explicitly because Joyce told her to keep it under wraps, and Becky has no intention of carrying on the bigotry-based closet thing now that she’s started her new evil-dad-free life.
This also might be her (awesome) way of telling Joyce that she’s being an asshole.
Did Joyce actually tell her to keep it under wraps? I think Joyce assumed she would do it – especially since that’s what Becky did on her own all day yesterday – and now is blown away by the fact that she isn’t. Becky has in fact not stopped for a second and allowed Joyce to explain or even react.
It WILL come back to bite her though. Regardless of the motive.
I don’t think that Becky is being reckless by coming out to these characters. She knows that Walky and Billie will be accepting, and is taking a chance with Mike, but that happens. As far as we can tell these are a few of her coming outs that are on her terms, and an unfortunate by product of our society is that we non-straight people have to keep coming out due to the constant assumption that everyone is straight.
I also don’t think Becky is overcompensating, to me she’s on the upswing out of her depression of being closeted and having runaway, for now she’s safe and her best friend is trying to supporting her. I’m also glad that shes talking over Joyce’s discomfort because Becky coming out is only about Becky and has nothing to do with Joyce.
But she is D: I have to agree with tyersome: drawing attention on herself like that, when it’s against the rules for her to share Joyce and Sarah’s room, is a terrible idea. There’s simply no way this isn’t going to end with her getting busted.
Exactly, my point is not that coming out is bad … we can see how well being closeted works in comic and I’ve seen how much stress it can put on real people first hand …
However, yelling it in the hallways to people she’s met once? When there are likely to be complete strangers overhearing, some of whom could be malevolent?
It would be great for her if she attracts supportive attention that leads to her finding a safe and stable place to live, but this seems like a very high-risk strategy that I wouldn’t recommend to anyone in her situation.
The fact that society at large and shitty people in general punish members of certain marginalized communities means that it’s *always* risky to exist openly and genuinely without hiding who you are. However, that does not make it irresponsible or reckless to do so, or to be proud and public about who you are. To say it is would suggest it’s somehow *her* prerogative to prevent homophobic folks from doing homophobic shit, which is pretty victim-blamey.
I understand that this is a very emotional issue and agree that a sane society wouldn’t require anyone to be closeted about anything that didn’t harm other people. Unfortunately we don’t live in that society and I have doubts about whether humans ever will …
Your response seems to be ignoring several things:
1) you seem to be endorsing that idea that the most vulnerable and isolated people should shoulder the costs of societal improvement without regards to their personal safety
2) there is a huge difference between trying to prevent victimization and victim blaming
3) this is not just about her orientation — drawing a lot of attention to herself in any manner before knowing how she is going to support and house herself is a big risk.
Okay I see the point you were making and re-reading your comments now I see what I both misread and misinterpreted. I do still believe that she would know that Billie and Walky would be safe to come out to but yelling it was a little over the top in the grand scheme of her situation.
Mike, on point as always, getting right to the heart of whatever is most likely to cause a conflict.
This is more or less what I expected after yesterday. Becky is open and honest so no reason to bug her, but Joyce is clearly still not being honest with herself or Becky, so she needs a dose of Mike
It must be nice as a writer to have a character who’s always ready and willing to act as a conflict-generating plot device.
Hmm… I’d say Mike is not necessarily a conflict generator, but maybe more like a conflict miner or unearther, if you will. Generally, it seems like the conflict was already there, but it was buried so people could ignore it, until he brought it into the light.
Pretty sure that Becky was pretty thoroughly dragging it into the light already. (That might even be the point.)
Yes, Mike is definitely Mr. Most Likely to Toss a Grenade Into a Social Situation (surprised he didn’t offer Becky a nickel to prove she’s a lesbian). However, in this case, Mike is using Joyce’s own words against her. She was Suzy Sanctimonious about how bad homosexuals are; now that she’s learned her best friend is one she’s having to do some furious backtracking.
Actually in that previous context she was trying to minimize The Church’s ( hers at least ) stance against Homosexuality.
She compared it to lying, seeming a minor sin.
Mike was there to point at that Hypocrisy, when he got her to say she hated lying.
and now he is being a douchnozzle and putting words in her mouth she never said.
Yeah. She said homosexuality is no worse than lying.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement, but it does leave some wriggle room.
Threesome plz
I hear Slipshiiiiiiiiiine!
Ten bucks Anti-Joyce joins in.
*sigh* I’ll do it this afternoooooon
I feel Ruth would be perturbed having sex with a girl who looks so much like herself.
“Billie, you have a definite TYPE don’t you?”
Becky looks nothing like Ruth. They both have freckles and reddish hair, that’s about it.
While I’m inclined to agree, I’d also like to see Ruth round up enough redheads to form something like a Gashouse Gorillas conga line.
Yeah, but she’s still a freckled lean red headed girl. That’s similar enough that questions would be asked.
Just like if my next girlfriend was another chubby black lady!
Oh, the incident of a question being asked in that situation is of a rather high probability, indeed. I only wanted to protest the “[…] looks so much like […]” part. It might seem a bit nitpicky, but to me, it was so far off, I had to say something.
I find Ruths reaction to such an event hard to tell and am in no Position to attack your speculation. Especially since I have yet to undestand the seemingly inherent pronlems with having a type. (Y’all are welcome to enlight me, of course.)
… its a problem if the type overwhelms the person, otherwise I’d say it just flavors things …
So the problem would rather be that other people assume to fast that the first is the case (“You only like me for my haircolour!”)? This would make sense (to me, anyway).
One of the problems anyway … there certainly do seem to people who are so fixated on whatever their type is that they ignore important considerations (e.g. compatible personalities or world-views, or warning signs) and keep ending up in unhappy or abusive relationships because all they see is the type …
That makes a lot of sense as well. Thank you very much. I feel like I really have learned something.
That’s clearly what Billy is thinking off panel now. Once you go ginger you can’t… something something-er?? Huh…
Once you go ginger you tend to linger?
Got a cute ginger wrapped round my finger (well, had last night).
Oooh, I bet there’s gonna be some people regretting their votes for Joyce in the poll!
What about Mary? \=o
I think the Mary voters are doing that for the lolz. But yeah, the Joyce voters are going to be kicking themselves!
Mary’s a bad person, but that doesn’t necessarily make her a bad character. She’s a villain, but that means she’s a plot catalyst. I didn’t vote for her, but I can imagine that people might do so unironically. And not even the kind of people who make me wonder why they’re even reading Willis’s comics.
(Actually, I just noticed that all three of my votes went to ladies who are into ladies, so I guess I’m with Walky here.)
this
I did it trying to predict the bottom three. If I had remembered Malaya I would’ve voted for her instead of Joe and been right (at the moment)!
I voted for Mary, and not for the “lolz” .
She is good antagonist, and has the potential to be a great one.
Dramas are often live or die by the quality of their antagonists.
Poorly written villains = waste of narrative.
Mary began in Roomies as a 2-dimensional saccharine holier-than-thou Christian , who is revealed to have charcter depth as an antagonist.
This arc she starts out openly as heart-as-black-as-coal holier-than-thou 2- 2-dimensional Christian , who slowly reveals more complexity.
She is a scene stealer and someone we love to hate.
I picked her part as wish-fulfillment because I want Willis to develop her more . She is still too hard to identify with. I want her to be more real — yet still evil.
I think she has tremendous dramatic possibilities with many of the characters. She might even be redeemable .
So no, not for the lolz, for the story
I completely agree with your reasons. I’m more and more fascinated by Mary, especially how she has managed to gain herself villain status without doing very much except some snide remarks. She still has her full growth potential both as a character and a narrative device in front of her and it will be glorious.
Thanks,
I had to think through her previous encounters to see if you were right, vis-a-vis only snide remarks.
I found I disagree. Her words were not throwaway jokes.
They established mal-intent, motivation, and intentions, with attempts to overtly and covertly persuade.
After the church, she tries to get Joyce to socially ostratice her friends.
She swings from phony-charm to verbal abuse on a dime, in an attempt to wind up her abusive RA against the floor.
She attempt to shame and guilt Billy in front of the other christian girls because she suspects Billy was with Ruth; and attempts touse her friendship with Joyce against Billy. She has Joyce to apply christian abuse to Billy. This also establishes that she is devious , monitoring Billy and Ruth and will act on it given the chance.
There is still an open issue in DOA of whether she practices her judgmental beliefs on herself or only against others. How hypocritical is she?
In Roomies those questioned are more answered more. Sorry, NO spoilers.
( I didnt read roomies and shortpacked till this year.
I was clueless when the new characters of Blaine and Faz appeared and people already hated them.
I also didnt know who was Amazi-girl. Sure obvious in hindsight But it could have been a new character. Kudos for the lack of spoilers on that. )
You are right, “snide remarks” is a complete under-estimation. I think I meant lack of concrete results so far. Compared to buttholes like Blaine and Ross she has not done much real damage yet. But the intentions are there. That’s of course part of what makes her interesting. We know that she’s up to something.
Mary’s not bad. She’s just drawn that way.
She’s good at drawing though. (Seriously – she draws pink cutesy anime style. That’s kinda adorable for a mean spirited bigot.)
And you have an awesome gravatar.
I voted for Joyce, I don’t regret it. We can’t expect her to be perfect.
After they leave, Billie stands there in silence for a few seconds, then goes upstairs to her room and checks her deodorant. She spies a never before noticed label. “Warning: May act as a pheromone for redheaded lesbians”.
Billie: “Well that explains a few things.”
Redheaded Lesbians.
Implying that it is not a pheromone for ALL women, lesbian or otherwise.
Didn’t seem to work when she tried to kiss Sal. So I figure it’s either because Sal is straight, or she doesn’t have red hair.
It’s because Sal is more powerful than any pheromone.
But what about Daisy?
She’s a little sex starved and Billie was reenacting her first Ruth kiss. Pheromones had nothing to do with it.
It’s an extract of ginger. 😛
A pun worthy of Tom Batiuk.
That’s harsh, Megs
Well I liked it, I think it really spiced up this thread nicely … maybe Megatron is just stewing about the lack of ginger in the dishes he’s sampled?
I need some of that shit where can I buy some.
Ruth isn’t a lesbian.
RUTH LIKEZ TEH COCK? GAZOOKZ!
thay comment is so much better with your avatar
Well, I’m relieved that Becky so far hasn’t been upset by Joyce trying to suppress this. Hopefully that continues; I’m sure Becky understands where Joyce is mentally.
Although I assume that Becky’s too caught up in her enthusiasm to pay it much attention.
Becky has made a long time hobby of upsetting Joyce. OF COURSE she understands what it does to Joyce when a closet-explosion is sprung on her with no warning whatsoever. I just hope that she’s ready to catch Joyce in the fallout (and that she’s prepared for how much worse Mike is going to make it)
OK NOW she’s the Best Character.
*fast-forward to tomorrow*
Opus the Post: OK, NOOOOOW, she’s the best character.
Well she had to do something awesome to displace Dina from the top spot. Today she went over the top.
It’s some sort of amazing exponential character Bestness.
At this rate she’ll have turned the campus into a musical number by Friday.
Throw out your hands
Stick out your tush
Hands on your hips
Give ’em a push
You’ll be surprised
You’re doing the French Mistake.
Voila!
You brute, you brute, you brute, you vicious BRUTE!!!! *sob*
Poor billie. She found another lesbian and she’s still being mocked in a passive aggressive way.
Billie and Ruth are both bisexual.
I’ve never once seen Ruth show attraction for a dude.
Nor have I, but Willis confirmed her as bisexual on his Tumblr.
Also, she’s mentioned an old boyfriend in Canada, and Howard was surprised when he heard about her thing for Billie.
Certainly not conclusive, but there has been some support in the comic itself.
It’s not unheard of for a lesbian to date some dudes before realizing she’s a lesbian.
Of course, hence the “conclusive.” (sorry if that was unclear)
It still provides some evidence outside of word of god.
It’s also not unheard of for a bisexual to know they’re into dudes without ever dating one.
I’m not arguing that she isn’t a bisexual. All I’m saying is she’s referred to herself as lesbian on multiple occasions so I wasn’t sure.
When has she done that? All I remember is calling what she and Billie are in as something “lesbian”.
I wouldn’t say that she’s referred to herself specifically as lesbian – she’s said that Billie and her found out she was into girls together, Howard was the one alluding to her being ‘lesbian pregnant’, and when he asked if she was full-on lesbian, she just shrugged and went, ‘I dunno, maybe?’ which isn’t really definite.
The only other instance would be asking Billie if they’d entered a ‘sexy lesbian suicide pact’, which would be referring to their relationship, which is certainly lesbian, in that it’s two girls.
> The only other instance would be asking Billie if they’d entered a ‘sexy lesbian suicide pact’, which would be referring to their relationship, which is certainly lesbian, in that it’s two girls.
Someone objected to a description of Danny’s “gay moments” yesterday, so I’m not sure if it’s accepted or not to use “gay/lesbian” to refer to things relating to two people of the same sex who may be bisexual.
“Sometimes words have two meanings” A great man named Led Zeppelin once said that.
Women who are bisexual sometimes refer to themselves as lesbian. There can be some overlap.
‘Showing attraction to a dude’ is not ‘proof’ of bisexuality. That’s like saying people in a long-term relationship (either same or opposite sex relationship) are not bisexual because you haven’t seen them show attraction to anyone except their partner.
Also, there are PLENTY of bisexuals who only ever date one gender (but are attracted to more than one but never act on it) or who strongly prefer one gender over the others – that doesn’t make them any less bisexual.
> ‘Showing attraction to a dude’ is not ‘proof’ of bisexuality. That’s like saying people in a long-term relationship (either same or opposite sex relationship) are not bisexual because you haven’t seen them show attraction to anyone except their partner.
Not really. Being proof of something is not the same thing as being a requirement.
True, but there aren’t really ‘requirements’. Just as there is no ‘proof’ when it comes to bisexuality. Your sexuality is what you define it as. Also, sexual attractions ≠ sexual actions. We can’t look into Ruth’s head and Willis has repeatedly referred to her as bi, so that is what she is. Everything else is bi erasure.
> True, but there aren’t really ‘requirements’.
Goddammit, that’s my point. If people were saying it were required, that would be offensive. Talking about “proof” is not offensive, unless it comes with an implication that you will somehow refuse to recognize someone’s self-identified* orientation without it. An implication you are imagining
*Though, if you asked Danny, he’d tell you he’s straight.
Ok, I misunderstood you then, because I actually agree with you on that.
> Your sexuality is what you define it as.
Also, doesn’t that mean it’s a choice? Isn’t the ENTIRE point of the ongoing trainwreck that is Ethan’s character arc, and the reason we consider people like Becky’s dad to be evil, that it’s not? That it’s an objective fact about someone? If you can’t choose your orientation, then you can’t “define” it either.
No, it’s not the same thing. At least not the way I meant it. Like, for example. I’m bi, right, and when I date someone, I always *always* have to make a point of defining my sexuality because otherwise it would become invisible. And I’m quite proud of my sexuality and I’d never want it to become invisble. That’s what I meant.
Also, people calling themselves gay because it’s ‘easier’ than to have to explain being bi or pan or anything else – I have a lot of friends who do that. That’s not what I would do, but it’s their right. Their right to define themselves how they want.
Like, even being in the closet is a choice. Ethan can’t change who he *is*, but he can change how he defines himself. Currently, to the world (except Amber and Joyce and whoever else knows the truth) he defines himself as straight. But we all know he isn’t. I’m not saying that’s good or healthy, but it’s his prerogative. He’s lying. To himself, most importantly. But, like, no one has a right to define himself for him. That’s why forcibly outing people is so terrible, because what if they’re not ready?
Not saying that I don’t want every single queer person in the world to be comfortable enough in their own sking to come out, but that’s just not the case. People need time. And even if they’re out, they still have the right to define themselves how they please. I mean. Do you understand this or am I just not making sense? lol
Billie is bisexual, not a lesbian.
I think Becky has the right idea here, there is no point in really hiding it.
It is a proven way to summon amazing superheroes. Even if Tony doesn’t care.
Not to mention how great it must feel to her to finally be able to openly tell people. She’s consumed with the power of it!
No one girl should have all that power! :O
Everyone should have all of that power!
The clock’s ticking, I just count the outers
This is the moment where there would be a huge showstopping number involving tap dancing and Becky being lifted up onto peoples’ shoulders if Dumbing of Age were a musical.
Yes I am a lesbian – (chorus: leeeesbian)
A connoisseur of the fairer gender
Yes I am a lesbian – (chorus: leeeesbian)
If that’s a crime I’m the worst offender
Although life’s not always perfectly swiminin’
I’m here to sample your finest wimmin
So come every leeeeesbian
And give me some SKIN
(Mel. I’m a dentist)
That is the best thing I’ve ever read.
keep working, we’ll have Willis convinced to do DoA the Musical inside of a year.
Did someone say Kickstarter? Because I swear I heard someone say Kickstarter. 😀
I was just thinking that. Except to the tube of “What’s This?” in the Nightmare before Christmas.
“Guess what? I’m Gay! Tell everyone around”
“It’s not you’re joking! Stop making all those sounds!”
AWESOME
(gleefully adding to it)
…
“It’s True! I’m Gay! Whoever could have guessed?
I always think of women, when other talk of boys,
I’d rather do with girlfriends, what other do with toys,
It was so strange at first
but now I’m feeling like on fire
Oh I won’t keep it inside I want the world to know – I’m Gay!”
This can be the beginning of the song, then the other thing you wrote can be during the kickline.
There is no such thing as too many musical song numbers about lesbians.
She should just get a name tag that says “Hi I’m a lesbain”. Save time.
Or a T-shirt. She could probably find one on Etsy, or somewhere.
Took like 30 seconds to find: https://www.etsy.com/listing/157803846/awesome-lesbian-shirt-gay-pride-t-shirt?ref=sr_gallery_7&ga_search_query=lesbian+shirt&ga_ref=auto6&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery
That is fantastic!
That deserves +1 Internets… 😛
A friend of mine had one that said “Queer by nature. Out by choice.”
Walky continues to oversimplify gender and sexuality despite being in a friggin’ gender studies class.
I guess I’m the fool for expecting otherwise.
If someone simplifies being a lesbian as being awesome then I’d probably as soon allow them to continue thinking that.
I mean, at least he’s not being negative about it? I mean, he has only been in that class for three or so weeks.
He’s been in an intro level gender studies class for one month, and wasn’t exactly enlightened on the subject when he entered. Leslie’s not a miracle worker.
BLASPHEMY!
In an alternate universe, Robin begs to differ.
(Your point stands though)
Yes. That was Walkys sincere opinion of how female homosexuality works. 100% serious.
I think Becky has the wrong impression of what “living out loud” means.
It may be wrong, but it’s just so RIGHT.
Also people will be asking the sorts of questions Becky doesn’t need people asking like “Is she even a student of IU?”
Yeah, it’d probably be best for Becky to try to just blend into the crowd and not draw attention at this point. Of course, if the crowd in question consists mostly of lesbians, than maybe Becky’s actually doing the inconspicuous thing, heh.
Respect for Joyce had gone up, and now it’s plummeting down. That’s enough kidding around? Seriously? I’m very frustrated that she’s trying to shove her friend into the closet.
That’s what you get for believing in Joyce. I tried to warn you people that you were giving her too much credit.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarsh. People aren’t all good or all bad, you know. I will never understand how people expect Joyce to magically become perfect all at once. She’s working on it. (And Mike’s here to make it all the more difficult. Hi, Mike.)
I don’t think Joyce is a bad person. I don’t like her, though. She’s most certainly not a good person.
I disagree. I think she is a good person who is slowly working through a ton of baggage and indoctrination that’s been loaded on her.
Having the potential to be a good person doesn’t make you a good person. If you still do dickish things all the time you can’t just asterisk that and say “Well she was raised that way, or she’ll grow out of it or bla bla bla”. What matters is how insufferable she is NOW. And right NOW she’s pretty unlikeable to me.
I disagree. Mike’s asshole fu is integral to any character development.
I think Joyce is still to concerned about how other people perceive her. She can deal with Becky being gay in private, but having it be public is to much for her to handle. She’s grown but she still has a long way to go.
Idk I think asking people to not be homophobic is not that big of a hurtle. Like, I’m sure Joyce will get there but I’m not inclined to make a bunch of excuses for her right now. She fucked up.
Eh, I mean she’s trying, it doesn’t excuse shitty behaviour but brainwashing tends to have that effect on people.
It’s likely because she is still sorting things out mentally herself and now there is 895665 times more stress on her to sort out her views.
She WANTS to sort out her own views on it before it is revealed to everyone else but even if it isn’t her choice to make, Becky revealing it to everyone is incredibly stressful for her because she still doesn’t know whether she fully supports it or not.
It is incredibly stressful because she is not ready for people like Mike who’d say ‘I thought you believed such and such’.
Becky IS ready to tell everyone, but Joyce is not ready to handle it all yet as she STILL believed homosexuality was wrong just the day before.
This.
I understand why Becky is doing this, maybe even needs to do this, but… she is only thinking of herself at the moment, and not her friend who only found out about all of this maybe twelve hours ago. And, IMO, has not slept since then.
I mean, she gets to only think about herself in this instance. Joyce can sort through her homophobia in private imo, Becky can talk about being lesiban in public. Because only one of those things is something you should be ashamed of.
You are completely right that Becky has every right to come out to any one she likes in whatever manner she likes (and about the only manner more awesome than this would be a full blown musical).
But because of a combination of factors, including the standard rotten luck of Dumbing of Age characters and one of the few character flaws Becky has shown this far in my opinion (a certain carelessness with Joyce’s feelings – she knows her relationship with Walky and used it to greath lengths to push her buttons yesterday) – she sprung this particular thing in the worst company possible from Joyce point of view.
Imagine the same scene with Dorothy and Sierra.
Becky: “I’M A LESBIAN”
Joyce: “Hehe, stop kidding….”
Becky: “Not kidding, telling everyone now. Hey, Billie…”
Dorothy: “I’m glad for your friends sake and I proud of you. It’s not always easy to do the right thing.”
Sierra: “Let’s bring her to church tomorrow.”
Same Joyce slip-up, a much safer space to get to grips with it.
This wasn’t unsafe for Becky though? It went fine. All that happened was Joyce was made uncomfortable, because she’s homophobic and has said homophobic things. Is the argument here that Joyce should not have to feel even mildly uncomfortable or embaressed about her homophobia? Like good, I’m glad she’s uncomfortable.
I suppose I mostly react to the forum comments that hate Joyce for her reaction. Yeah, you are right – it is a good thing that she comes to term with the homophobia that is inherent in her belief system.
But I really can’t see why it would be a better for her to be confronted by it by a mean spirited bully rather than in a setting more akin to this
The problem with your reasoning is that is exactly what is used to keep people in the closet all their lives. That is always true.
Sure. Okay. You’re right. Let’s keep hammering on all the weak points in Joyce’s psyche at once. And when she finally breaks – because she wasn’t able to immediately (literally, overnight) and completely discard the belief structure she’s been indoctrinated in for her entire life upon being confronted with the rightness of right-thinking people – well, that’ll be entirely her fault. For not being good enough, resilient enough, or open-minded enough.
Really, even a sheltered and home-schooled 18-year-old should be able to just cope with everything Joyce has been through in the last few weeks, let alone the last twelve hours; and not merely choose to side with her best friend against everything she’s been taught (risking, by those same teachings, eternal damnation), but construct a flawless theological justification for it, make living arrangements for said friend, and prepare remarks for any critics – before breakfast! That Joyce hasn’t done any but the first of these clearly shows that she’s a weak, homophobic little ***** who deserves nothing but scorn.
There is nothing wrong with defending Joyce’s current reactions since its only the day after Becky’s reveal in the story timeline. It’s completely in character for her to be uncomfortable right now, but Becky has no obligation to temper how/when she comes out to people because of how Joyce feels.
Coming out is deeply personal and unless your outed, you come out when you are ready not when someone else can deal with it.
If the two of them were in a mutual relationship and both closeted then Becky would have a reason to take Joyce’s feeling into account but that’s not the case here.
I’m pretty sure St Clair was being devastatingly sarcastic in response to Adam Black.
I’m not sure if there’s sarcasm or not so my goal was diffusion and to supply what I know from both my personal experience of coming out and talking to other out and closeted individuals.
Can you not jump all over someone because they don’t want to automatically make excuses for Joyce’s homophobia? Like its really grossing me out that people are literally bending over backwards to justify Joyce’s behavior here. Yes, nobody’s perfect, yes Joyce is learning, yes she is trying to an extent- But she’s also being super homophobic and we are allowed to not like that. we are allowed to judge her for that. I won’t hold it against her once she improves, but no, I’m not going to go easy on her when she’s being asshole.
Keep in mind this all just happened last night and it goes against everything she was taught to believe. Cognitive dissonance doesn’t get solved that easily.
Yeah, it’d be pretty unrealistic if Joyce was suddenly all “Hey let’s go march in a gay pride parade!” over the span of less than a day.
I’m not expecting Joyce to suddenly be wearing rainbow shirts with “Some people are gay, get over it” written on it. I’m not expecting her to be 100% over her previous feelings. What I am expecting is for her to make an attempt to be supportive of her friend, even if it just means holding her tongue. Attempting to make it seem as thought Becky is lying about her sexuality as a joke isn’t supportive. It’s rude, and uncalled for.
Why wouldn’t she? Nothing she’s ever experienced indicates that homosexuality is a good thing. |She’s been raised to believe it’s sin that ruins your life and sends you to Hell, Ethan’s fed into these notions with his own idiocy and even Becky’s story basically boils down to ‘my hideous secret got out and now I’m alone and unloved’. Of course Joyce is going to assume Becky should stay closeted and pretend to be straight, she doesn’t know any better and given her own crippling fear of sexuality she couldn’t imagine herself being out and proud.
Wait, Mike actually referred to Joyce by name?
He’s sensed easy prey.
Things got serious.
Is that unusual? Am I forgetting something?
It’s not specifically established, but Mike rarely refers to anyone by their actual name, even in the old universe, usually opting for derogatory terms. Offhand I can only think of Amber, Jacob, Billie, and maybe Ethan and Galasso, across both universes.
It knows her name.
The hovertext sounds like something Daisy would think about Amazi-Girl
All I can think of with that hovertext is Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter. “We’re almost out of skin. I suggest we harvest another lesbian!”
That’s a thing? Please tell me that’s not a thing.
A this rate, Joyce is eventually gonna backtrack off a cliff.
Oh Joyce let Becky do as she wants it’s her life.
“that’s the idea!” You rock Becky, wish I could be more like you.
Joyce: “OH, WHY DON’T YOU JUST TELL EVERYBODY!?”
Becky: “Exactly what you just said but without sarcasm!”
+1
lmao
I like you, you have something…
And with any luck it isn’t communicable.
Beautiful.
I knew someone was going to have said this already. Bravo.
Niiiiiiiiiiice.
+1 more
Nice.
Yup. Saw that coming.
I can’t tell if this is going up or down hill, so for now I’ll say it’s going over very rocky terrain and leave it at that.
I think that the title, Dumbing of Age strongly suggests that it’s going both up and down simultaneously. Also, the fleshling author has a history of rapid fire ups and downs.
Definitely up and down simultaneously. This story is a friggin’ Escher print.
And no fuck is given in Beckyland. Or maybe that’s the problem.
Goddamn it, Joyce.
Becky is a goddess
Maybe she knows Aphrodite.
How so?
Yeah, what do you mean when you say the word “know”? Be explicit.
This is one of those situations where Mike’s assholeness is going to maybe do good.
Ultimately it probably will, but I’m nervous about the part that comes in between.
Agreed. Though I worry it may cause Joyce to try harder to cling to her old beliefs.
True, but getting mad about it is probably a better place for her to be than trying to grin and pretend it isn’t happening again.
Harder to lie to yourself when you’re angry. I imagine particularly so if you’ve got Mike there bringing into the light everything you’re trying to hide away.
I like Mike. He won’t let her get away with any bullshit.
“Harder to lie to yourself when you’re angry.” Whoa, not in my experience.
Becky: “HI, I’M A LESBIAN!”
Leslie: “HI. I’m Leslie Bean”
“I’m also a lesbian. Pretty convinient, huh?”
“Very much so, oddly enough my fundamentalist parents never considered the possible ramifications of naming me Leslie Bean”
… well, the rigid thinking associated with fundementedalism is generally only a source of humor (or horror) to outside observers …
BTW: You’re on fire tonight PM!
Must be the positive vibes from my grav.
Well, I just hope that tomorrow you aren’t saying “What happened to my good vibrations they were red hair a minute ago?”
It depends on if I feel the need to change my grav or not.
In my headcanon, you feel the need to change your grav at all times. But there is this arc in your backstory when you attempted to change your grav 24 times per second to create a smooth animation. This did upset the gravatar admins so much that they decided to enforce strict rules on when you, specifically, may change your grav. The points in time you are allowed to do this depend on (including, but not limited to): The alignment of the stars, the number of butterflies in the Bermudatriangle, the tides, the mood of the microflora in the intestines of Linus Torvalds and the exact angle of the tower of Pisa.
HOW do you change your Gravatar? I’ve been trying to do that for a while, and it NEVER works.
Dear Rorror, we are sorry but we must reject your hypothesis as you’ve made an unforgivable series of errors in you calculations … you totally neglected the all important contributions from the fluctuations in the solar wind and estrus cycles in the Herpestidae.
otusasio451: First thing first, do you have a Gravatar account?
tyersome: I explicitly stated “not limited to”. In related news, I see what you did there, approve of it and am a little embarrassed I didn’t do it myself.
Plasma Mongoose, otusasio451: The important thing is rather: A Gravatar account you can actually access. I somehow lost my password and had to make a new one. This is why I’ve commented on this very comic with two different gravs.
Yup, I do. But it’s not linked up to the comment section here for some reason.
Heh. I got it. Ha. Finally! HaHA! HAHAHAHAA! AAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!
see also, a rather improbable number of parents in and around Gotham City.
In a way you she sorta did
Joyce, don’t backslide now.
No worries. Shoving people in glass closets is just something she does.
Have I mentioned recently how much I love Becky? Because I do. Iove her personality, I love her constant big giant grin, I love her effortless pushing of Joyce’s boundaries that need to be pushed. She’s an unbeatable character.
She looks like she’s having a lot of fun. I wish I was having that much fun.
Panel 2 is actually a panel from Willis’ next slipshine.
If Willis makes a Becky slipshine their whole website will crash from the weight of all the money people will throw at them.
Becky’s going to drive Joyce into an accidental swear word, is she?
Joyce is going to snap and swear eventually, but that won’t be happening anytime soon. I don’t think Joyce can get angry enough to swear at her best friend
The swear word need not be directed AT Becky, per se.
So, Becky gets her riled up, and someone else tips her over the edge? Something like that?
I’m putting my bets on Mary to be that person.
GIVE ME YOUR SKIN, GIRL
… I though it was Joyce who was suspected of that level of creepiness?
Welp. So much for Joyce being honest with whatever decision she decides to make.
Love Mike with a purple passion: he does as stated above,dive right smack onto the point that will make his target face up to their stupidity, or whatever, and stir up a storm because of it. Brutely honest if nothing else.
Get ready to make another big step growing up and out or…Joyce you got some explaining to do to Becky when she comes down off her ‘I’m a lesbian high’.
Is that kind of like Nic Cage’s “I’m a vampire” high?
I first read that as “I’m at lesbian high” and though, ‘This isn’t high school’ … but now …
Lesbian High: Cherry-leaders
Staring Becky Macintyre: as the most Cheery-learer and leading lesbian
I was rang. Mike’s the one who will never let her live this down.
Becky is reminding me of Benny from The Lego Movie, only instead of “Spaceship!” she says “Lesbian!”
I love Becky, but the real action is between Mike and Joyce. Mike, with his asshole fu, recalls the time Joyce stated she was clearly against homosexuality. Joyce must now confront herself and reflect upon her previous words to see whether or not they hold any weight now that she knows her best friend is a lesbian.
I really hope this will be another Mike building character through cruelty and self-reflection thing. Otherwise I’ll have to stop liking that guy.
You don’t have to like him to respect that his assholery functions as a way for characters to reflect upon themselves.
exactly
Well considering he’s totally leaving Becky alone and going right after Joyce I’m pretty sure he’s doing it for a reason. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t enjoy it or isn’t an asshole though.
Win. Win.
More than any other character, my emotional reaction to Mike is colored by other-universe Mike. But if we look at Mike strickly in the DOA universe he hasn’t actually been Mike-ishly awsome up to this point. Punching Joe isn’t up to Mike-ish standards and the whole pajama pants thing was actually something of a misfire and the perminant ding-dong marker was a lucky accident.. The exchange with Amazigirl showed promise but did little more than make her temporarily uncomfortable.
And this is something that makes complete sense to me. Like the rest of the characters, we have a younger, dumber, less experienced version of Mike. The asshole part comes naturally, but the development of the inspired mental judo that let’s him so brilliantly make people hurt themselves emotionally for his enjoyment AND their own good, still lies in the future. This incident with Joyce is the first time we see Mike potentually operating in full blown Mike mode, although admitedly, Joyce at this juncture is something like shooting fish in a barrel. But you start small. All in all, I am looking forward to watching Mike’s unique artistic development in this Universe almost as much as I’m lookkng forward to watching this Univerce’s Jacob’s discovery of his suseptibility to sexual addiction.
I think Mike is just trying to find the fastest way to cause the most human suffering – Joyce is the most efficient option here.
I am fully on board with Mike being the agent of change that Joyce needs because he won’t back down on her as easily as Sarah would.
And when she tries to lie about it, he brings up that she also said she hated lying. This is why I like the guy, despite him being a complete flaming asshole.
I want Mary to get Miked.
If nothing else, at least he’s consistent.
Oh dear god yes that would be GLORIOUS.
Mike is awesome.
You know, I actually totally missed that aspect. I thought it was just an off-hand comment for comparison. That makes this page so much better.
And in case anyone wants a reference: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/sin/
Just when I was starting to like Joyce she goes and does this…
I AM TOTALLY FOR BECKY’S CURRENT APPROACH!
ruth later punches becky while saying no my girl mine then becky kisses her
…and a lesbian met a lesbian walking through the rye…I mean, college campus…
Are any of the redheaded DoA characters straight??
Howard? (is that Ruth’s brother’s name is, it’s been so long since we saw him, my brain is failing me). But he might just be Game of Thrones-sexual.
There’s also Penny, whose only known relationship was with Jason.
But she has only appeared in like 4 or 5 strips so far, so it’s hard to tell.
I think Howard Is straight.
Thanks, he was easy to forget.
Rose has only appeared in one panel in this universe, so it’s hard to tell for sure. But in the other universe, she dated a guy. On the other hand, she worked at McAwesome’s, so by the Walky Theorem, she’s a McLesbian. I therefore conclude that she’s bi.
Please elaborate–Rose was dating a male cow orker at McAwesome’s. So far as I can tell, McAwesome’s employees had the same orientation as their evil twins at Galasso’s, which would be Amber in this case. What is the Walky Theorem?
I read this as male cow at first glance.
It’s an old internet cliche; back in the days of usenet someone wrote something about one of their coworkers and people began making jokes like “why would anyone want to ork a cow?”. So, whenever I have occasion to use the word coworker, I insert and unnecessary space between the “w” and the “o”.
It was a joke off Walky’s first-panel allegation that Becky is awesome because she’s a lesbian. Rose worked at McAwesome’s, therefore…
Hmm. If McAwesome’s employees have the same orientation as their evil counterparts at Shortpacked!, and Dumbiverse characters have the same orientation as their Walkyverse counterparts, that’d imply that Agatha is “generally kinda undefinably queer”. I wouldn’t have guessed it.
Huh. The correspondence between the orientation of characters in the Walkyverse and the Dumbiverse is Word Of God, while the correspondence between the orientation of McAwesome’s employees and Galasso’s employees is just an observation of mine. Walkypedia makes no mention of Agatha’s orientation, but says that in the Walkyverse she is the counterpart of Robin. In Shortpacked, Robin is “straight with an exception”, a rather major exception as it turned out. Make of that what you will.
“Just a heads up, Joyce, I’m not going to stay hidden. I’m going to tell everyone that I’m a lesbian.”
“What, but, bluh…”
“It’s OK, take a few minutes to wrap your head around it. I’m not going to change my mind but I don’t want to spring it on you.”
“Well… OK, but could you at least not start with Mike within earshot? He always finds a way to get under my skin and this is all new to me.”
I just want to point out that Becky didn’t give Joyce the above heads up, so I think we can forgive her not to react perfectly saintly.
Ehh….yeah but maybe if she didnt go around saying homophobic stuff this wouldn’t be such a problem. Not that she’s not learning, I’m just saying I’m not gonna give her a thumbs up for this one. She’ll get better.
As far as Becky knows, Joyce fully supports her. She doesn’t know how much of a hypocrite Joyce is being.
Changing your mind isn’t the same as being hypocritical. That said she did do it in a matter of seconds just last night (there was some movement before, but that was the actual switch), so she is still trying to adjust. But she isn’t a hypocrite.
But she hasn’t yet changed her mind, she’s still in the conflict phase. That’s why she had to look up biblical translations; she needed to find a loophole to fit her own worldview.
I’m going to give Joyce half marks here — she did accept Becky, but then she did something which she herself acknowledges to be hypocritical: she looked up concordances to try to justify her response. Had her thinking been “The Bible appears to be wrong here, so I should go look and see why it isn’t,” then I’d have given her full marks. Unfortunately, during her discussion with Sarah, she admitted that her thoughts didn’t run that way.
Hell, she has been repeatedly stated to have been Joyce’s best friend. (By now I am beginning to suspect she was her only friend, by the way.) Do you think they are so sheltered the topic of Joyce’s views on homosexuality never came up?
I don’t think Becky was Joyce’s only friend. Joyce is an incredibly friend-becoming person: the only two people who don’t like her are Ruth and Mary. As far as anyone on the floor seems to realize, Ruth hates everyone in-story. We know better — she cares about Dorothy when breaking up with Danny, she cares about Amber, she knows about and is protective of Carla…but nobody else seems to realize that. (And notice that I didn’t mention her love affair with Billie. Nobody except Mary should recognize that yet.) Mary? Well, Mary is a hateful hypocrite who doesn’t dislike anyone as much as she loathes them.
Everybody else *likes* Joyce.
Why does Joyce need a heads up? Joyce told Becky to do some “window shopping” in the showers. Joyce told Becky that she didn’t think that what Becky did was a mistake. It’s safe to assume that Becky thought that Joyce would laugh about this, and not care.
I believe Becky knows Joyce well enough to know exactly what reaction she would get. I think Becky just wanted to keep running her and Walky’s joke from yesterday of making Joyce uncomfortable.
The problem is that Joyce didn’t think it was particularly funny then, and with the whole soul wrenching drama from yesterday – and Mike (the one thing Becky wasn’t able to foresee) – it’s even less funny now.
But if Becky wants to she can definitely turn her coming out into an ill-thought out joke at Joyce’s expense. My point was more directed to the comments that condemns Joyce for her reaction.
Becky is putting the closet door through a woodchipper right now!
I tried to “like” this comment. As in, search for the “like” thing to clicky.
Amazzing. I love Becky so much. I also really enjoy seeing Joyce squirm about this, idek. Not to be mean or anything, but she’s said some awful stuff and it’s nice seeing her get called on it.
Mike: Calling people on their hypocrisy since…When did he first show up? Around then.
Mike is awesome.
It’s amazing how well this works as a companion piece for today’s Shortpacked.
Also, compare and contrast to Ethan. Ethan, take some notes because she knows she’s no different as a lesbian person.
I doubt Ethan thinks his sexuality changes him as a person, but rather doesn’t want people to define him by it.
Becky seems to define herself by it.
If Ethan didn’t want people to define him by his sexuality, wouldn’t that imply that his sexuality does change him in the sense of how people perceive him? And I think that, in Ethan’s mind, him being gay did change him into something negative and “sinful”, and he still has insecurities about that.
You have a point there.
Maybe not sinful, but, dude, gay.
Things can only get better. (Okay, yeah, they can get worse, but let me have this for a while.)
I don’t even think Mike was prepared for this one. Did you see that expression in the last panel of the previous comic?
As a side note, I can’t tell who’s being harder on Joyce at the moment-Mike, or Becky. You KNOW this is intentional.
Intentional? I think the problem is that Becky isn’t really putting much thought into ANYTHING. All action without forethought.
Ultimately, I think Joyce is in a no-win scenario. Fortunately, Joyce has a roommate who’s been through the no good choices wringer, in Sarah. Unfortunately, she’s currently in the presence of Mike, who has just gotten over the initial surprise and is… well… being Mike.
Count down to Joyce meltdown commencing.
We are at tearful Becky alert 5.
CODE DRAMA, CODE DRAMA!!! WE HAVE A CODE DRAMA!!
BATTLE STATIONS!
Yep, Joyce is going to have a meltdown, and Becky is going to run away crying saying something like “I thought you didn’t CARE! I thought you were okay with me being ME!”
personally i think becky is extremely annoying, but also equally relatable
So I guess Becky is gonna be a series regular now? I hope so! And if so they keep her being awesome! I hate it when shows and comics ruin your favorite characters somehow…
Amazing Becky becomes amazinger! 😀
Becky won’t be satisfied until she jumps upon the back of a big gay pony and gallops through the land to scream before every door “I’m a lesbian!”.
Rainbow Dash would be the perfect pony considering her colour scheme.
Well, that and she’s freaking awesome.
Could we not do the whole “Rainbow Dash is totally a lesbian” Thing? We get it, her mane is rainbow, I love Lesbians, I love the gay ladies, that’s awesome, but the whole “Rainbow Dash is a Lesbian despite no evidence/souly cause of the rainbow mane” Thing is so old DX
But yes she is in fact best pony =P
I have not been watching the show, but I thought that male ponies did not exist. That would mean that if My Little Ponies are to be ‘shipped at all, lesbian is the only option.
There’s plenty of male ponies. Big Mac, Shining Armor, Mr Cake, Snips and Snails are the most regular appearances.
That and we’ve seen Rainbow eye Soarin Frequently 😛
There’s also the annoying “tomboy = lesbian” aspect to it.
Which tells little girls “If you aren’t feminine you’re a les-bi-an!”
There is nothing wrong with being a feminine lesbian, nor is there anything wrong with being a straight tomboy 😛
The whole “You act like x so your sexuality is Y” is sooooOoOOO dumb
That hovertext sounds just a slight bit psychotic to me.
No, it’s “give me all you skin temporarily, you know, to kiss and lick and stuff”.
IT RUBS THE LOTION ON ITS SKIN
haha, to joyce, must feel something like an effort to smoke her out with her beliefs.
Becky…Becky, no. Do not skin Billie and wear her as a suit. Nothing good will come of it.
She could crawl into it and keep warm forever… NO, BAD!
She doesn’t have to take it off in order to get into her.
Mean while in Billie’s mind…. Oh shit! They’re onto me!
“Hey Billie, I’m a Lesbian! High Five!”
It was at that point my eyes immediately moved to the SlipShine link image on the left side of the page.
Becky must have heard the word “lesbian” the first time and came running like Sanic, look at that skid stop!
Lesbian is the new black.
Gay is the new Straight.
I have a feeling Daisy and Becky are going to get along just fine.
Is Mike referencing a conversation that took place in the girl’s dorm with only girls present?
No, Mike is referencing a conversation she had with Mike and Ethan.
Originally used to mess with Ethan, now re-purposed to mess with Joyce.
Mike is very efficient at stoning birds.
I think I can say with some amount of confidence that Mike easily makes my top five least favorite characters, accompanied by the likes of Amber’s dad, Becky’s dad, and Mary. Unsure of who the other would be.
Joyce’s parents, Ethan’s mom, or Walky and Sal’s mom?
Let’s not forget Ryan (date-rape guy). Joyce’s mother more than her father: he was willing to listen to her and accept her faith-based “reasoning” as evidence of Joyce’s growing up. Malaya maybe. But definitely Ryan.
Mike is one of the most ethical character on the campus in my honest opinion. He just has a very spiteful, meanspirited, literally punching and stomping, headache inducing way of expressing it. So yeah, he’s incredibly dislikable.
I can only think of one occasion when Mike literally punched anyone—when he chaperoned Joe’s date with Joyce. When did he ever stomp anyone? Mike’s blows are mostly verbal.
Huh, I must be remembering wrong. Or I thought he encouraged others to stomp on people. Anyway, thanks for the reminder.
I love Billie’s boots.
Joyce and her baby steps at coping with reality. Adorable even when she’s being annonying ^^
On a related note, I really expected Mike to be much more of a dick about this. So far, he’s being really easy on her 😀
To be fair, it seems that Mike limits himself to bring up the thing that a person most NEEDS to hear…and least WANTS to hear; not just gratuitous meanness but the truly irritating “I hate that guy even more because he’s RIGHT, too” 😉
FAAAAAACCCCEEE! There, I said it.
I especially love how Joyce’s head is drawn too close to Mike, or occluded by the panel edge, creating a sense that her cognitive dissonance is closing in on her. I almost feel sorry for her, when she was working so hard just one strip ago to create a tiny little breathing space to accommodate Becky’s sexuality into her comfortable but narrow worldview.
Of course, it’s Billie I really feel for. Joyce’s claustrophobic panels also resulted in Billie’s reaction to this potentially dangerous development (assuming Ruth’s happiness and her own depend on keeping their relationship secret) remaining tantalizingly off-panel.
Joyce is experiencing a cognitive dissonance implosion and must reboot.
Becky is just relieved that YEP, SHE CAN SAY IT NOW.
OMG I just had a revelation. We know that Joyce/Ethan isn’t going anywhere, and Walky appears to be spoken for in this universe. Joyce is going to end up with Mike.
Or Joe?
Here’s a scary idea. Maybe, she ends up with – NO ONE. And, she’s OK with it.
DUN DUN DUNNNNN!
Joyce can’t take a shower without visions of male torsos dancing in her head. I doubt she would really be OK with “no one”, and commitmentless recreational sex probably isn’t compatible with her personality either, even if she managed to completely shed all traces of religion.
That is not an un-possibility, but as Paul points out, the plot pretty unambiguously points toward “Joyce comes to terms with her sexuality”, so even if she doesn’t get paired away Hollywood-style, I think we would all feel a bit psyched if there were no romantic encounters down the road.
Hey, why not Jacob? They’re both into serious relationships, as established, and he already seems to have some kinda obsession with her. Plus it could serve the added purpose of forcing Sarah to confront her misanthropic complacency! I’m shippin’ this.
I don’t think that Jacob is obsessed with Joyce, it’s just that Joyce was the only topic Sarah seemed to want to talk about: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/joycestories/
Is DOA Mike ever going to have any personal growth like in Shortpacked! ?
Let’s hope not. Let’s keep him encased in amber like the perfect gag character he is, forever and ever.
He’s already encased in Amber in Shortpacked! Heeyooooooooo
Man, I can’t believe someone got to make that joke.
God I’m slow.
I’m hoping he and Carla get together and mutually disallow one another from developing as characters. CarlaxMalaya and MikexAmber are fine for some webcomics, but CarlaxMike is the perfect war-ship for DoA. Think of all the damage they could do together!
Hee her! Poor Joyce. She’s making progress, but she can’t do a complete 180 on her attitudes over night! Meanwhile Becky is all “My best friend accepts me! Woo! I can tell the world who I am now!”
😀
Once the pressure comes off, it’s kind of hard to keep a tamp on it.
Becky was always super impressed with and jealous of Joyce’s school from the very first strip in this whole comic because she always saw it as some wonderful place where you can be free to *be* who you *are*, as opposed to Anderson where she had to keep it a secret – likely an extension of her previous life at home, with her parents. Whenever Joyce was all “I’m not sure if I like it here” Becky was like “What are you kidding your college is the best.” It’s really kind of sad Becky wasn’t given the chance to go there to begin with.
And now she gets invited into this amazing place, so it’s understandable that the first thing she’d want to do would be come out to everyone. She really thinks she can finally be accepted here.
I predict a hard letdown when she finds that Indiana University isn’t that paradisical.
Of course it is. There is Joyce and cereal and fine wimmin.
i think mike is exactly what joyce needs right now. he is the fan that clears the fog of cognitive dissonance.
Mike: The Necessary Evil
I’m sure the whole “hero no one deserves” Batman thing has been done already.
Sal is the Batman of this comic, Mike is like the Joker but with mutated hair.
Walky: “Man, good thing I didn’t break up with Dorothy last night!”
“I mean, just imagine if I had been Danny or something. Who knows what kind of humiliating hijinks I would have fallen into.”
Help, I’m distracted by how completely adorable Walky is in the first panel. Usually Joyce is the distractingly adorable one!
Becky is also pretty freaking cute here.
Hello fellow Jess.
Wait, how did Becky know Billie again?
And once again, Mike is my favorite character.
Lesbian high five!
Something I love about Mike is that while nothing is off-limits to him, he is also decidedly NOT a bigot. He is truly an equal-opportunity asshole.