I was not aware this thing was a thing other than the thing it already was. But now I want somebody to grow actual steak into a tube shape in a laboratory. FOR SCIENCE!
Traditional marriage? 1 man, 700 wives, 300 concubines, and a kitchen condiment? That traditional marriage?
Betty Bowers Explains Traditional Marriage to Everyone Else: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw
Some people just assume they’ll have kids eventually, having the reality set in that you not only probably won’t but that you likely shouldn’t because you’d be bad at it is pretty harsh.
I believe it’s established that all Ethans in all universes are gay.
Though given the way they seem to go for unfulfilling relationships with women anyway, I guess it’s possible that some of them have fathered children regardless. That seems to be how Ethan himself came to be.
Where the heck is the character in your gravatar from?! I’ve been trying to figure it out. It’s right on the edge of my memory and I just can’t think of it!
It may be the advice columnists I read shouting through me, but “You know you can adopt, right?” is super condescending to people with issues having children. DUH, it’s an option.
It’s also not super easy like going down to Walmart and getting a prostitutebaby from Aisle 6… and two dudes are going to have particularly difficult times adopting compared to “regular” couples, and YAY ALL THE INTRUSIVE QUESTIONS when you happen to adopt a child from a different race. [SUPER INTRUSIVE if you are black adopting white–“did you steal that baby??” etc.]
I also have a friend who was adopted and is super angry about it because the adoptive mother basically acted like Friend should be So Grateful for having been adopted and was basically treated like the Dursleys treated Harry Potter.
ANECDOTALLY ANYWAYI’m sure most folks love it and Ethan will have wonderful grandbabies in like 983274 years from now comic-to-realtime
If, however, you can provide a grimoire or sufficiently dark caliber, then you are instead treated as an object of fear and wonder. Which, y’know … not so bad, really If that’s your thing.
People seem to be missing the point that the whole not having babies part isn’t the reason Ethan’s depressed, it’s just another layer of the ‘things I can’t have because gay’ cake he’s feeding himself.
‘You know you can just adopt right?’ isn’t the answer to Ethan’s dilemma, him getting over the bleak future he’s painted for himself because he’s gay is.
This, very much. He’s an eighteen-year-old without enough life experience to realize that a) his job in life really isn’t to live up to each and every one of his parents’ expectations for him, and b) if they end up rejecting him if/when he comes out, there’s the entire LGBT community as a potential support group.
Still, I can understand him trying to find a way to be happy and keep his parents happy. I mean, it can’t be too hard to change your sexual orientation, can it? Worth a shot!
I realize that saying “you can adopt” isn’t terribly sensitive, but I think everyone is reacting with a bit of incredulity to the mix of self pity, general cluelessness, and internalized homophobia Ethan’s got going here. I mean, seriously? Delusion and hallucination is the ONLY way you can imagine getting grandkids? Ethan. Dude. There are so many ways that people end up with offspring besides penis in vagina sex.
There is the aforementioned adoption or surrogacy routes.
Ethan could fall in long term love with a fellow who was bi or late out of the closet and had children from a previous relationship.
Ethan could fall in love with a trans guy.
Godfather.
A wonderful old lady in my neighbourhood was a former high school teacher who basically kidnapped her (willing) student out of an abusive home situation and got away with it because she was one of those personalities that got away with things. A risky option that I do not necessarily recommend Ethan imitate, as he is not a badass fallen nun/drama teacher, but it could happen!
Just, “gay men can’t produce offspring” is something that we mostly hear from homophobic assholes inventing excuses why homosexuality shouldn’t be allowed. The fact that Ethan is spouting it makes everyone want to smack him with the clue bat for his own good. It’s a failure of imagination.
I was going to say; Tell David Gerrold that, he’s gay and it’s totally possible that he might be a grandfather if his adopted kid gets married and has kids of his own!
Read “The Martian Child.” Ignore the movie, David does.
The direction isn’t really important it’s the jab. Any jab is good if it’s self defense, but an attack is evil. My right spork is titanium and my left is extra medium. Heeheehee hahahaahaha BWAHAHAHAAAHAAAA!!!
Scientists are working on a way to make a “male egg,” too. You still need a surrogate-or an artificial womb, if we’re talking future tech- but hey, it’s possible, just not possible to do on accident. Yay gay dudes I guess!
I always liked how in Life the Universe and Everything, Arthur just decides to go mad. Like, it’s part of the plan.
“Arthur felt happy. He was terribly pleased that the day was for once working out so much according to plan. Only twenty minutes ago he had decided he would go mad, and now here he was already chasing a Chesterfield sofa across the fields of prehistoric Earth.”
19th wasn’t too good either. Lots of colonial oppression, quite a few wars, lots of disease and poverty.
And the 21st century isn’t looking too good so far.
Can we try skipping to the 22nd century? Surely we’ll have sorted ourselves out by then?
I stand with those who support horizontal polarization. Those vertical polarization people are going to be the destruction of this great country! And never mind those kooks who vote for circular polarization…
Gay people can adopt in Indiana. But I doubt Ethan’s even actually looked up his future options since he apparently wants kids. He seems to have decided (or just been raised) to think being gay automatically equals no kids for him.
Or growing a man on the back of a woman’s neck! There’s this one movie, where a lady grows an adult Native American man on the back of her neck, and Joseph Cotten (correction: Tony Curtis) is there for some reason. I haven’t gotten around to watching it, but I want to.
Anyhow, that seems like a fine choice to me, as long as the woman is into it (and the Native American man as well).
Not only does Ethan seem unaware that gay people can still have kids he also seems to have forgotten that pretending to date Joyce didn’t magically make him no longer gay. You’re not gay again Ethan. You’re gay STILL.
My take on the subject had been Ethan was going to pretend to be heterosexual just so he didn’t have to deal with any hassles from other people. Not BE heterosexual as if it was a lifestyle choice.
Joyce’s idea that he could simply resist gay temptations and live as a de facto heterosexual did seem to appeal to him.
His dad had also tossed out the idea that most straight men don’t really like sexing up women. They just suck it up because it’s the proper heterosexual thing to do.
It sounds like he was trying to become “heterosexual”, but only under a pretty loose definition.
Yeah, Ethan’s dad could have been either ace or gay and in denial.
The thought occurs, gay people are about 10% of the population, and it seems to be genetic but recessive (YOU could be a carrier!). So the question of how likely the use of a gay man’s sperm to fertilize a lesbian’s egg would be to produce and LGB kid? My back of the envelope scribbles suggest that it could be anywhere from maybe as low as 10% to maybe as high as 80% depending on if it was the same group of genes that needed to be active for males and females. If males and females need different combinations of genes to be homosexual then you would have the same likelihood of having a gay/lez baby as any other pairing, if there are shared genes then the odds are slightly higher, and if both sets of genes are the same between male and female homosexuals then we start getting into the reverse odds for having a straight kid. So inseminating Becky from Ethan could be a crapshoot that might produce a straight kid or might produce “something” else. Maybe a bi?
Even in SF, it isn’t ten percent. Nowhere near.
And yes, theactualnumberdoesnotmatterbecauseeveryoneispeopleasgoodasanyoneelse, but wrong numbers and wishful thinking don’t help.
“Because my sources say San Francisco’s population is in fact 15% GLB, and the metro area is ~8% which is definitely somewhere near 10.”
That same source says 5.2% for all of California. Adding up the adult numbers in Appendix 1, I get less than 4% being LGB. WP says “According to the Williams Institute review conducted in April 2011, approximately 3.8 % of American adults identify themselves being in the LGBT community; wherein, (1.7%) identify as lesbian or gay, (1.8%) bisexual, and (0.3%) transgender, which corresponds to approximately 9 million adult[1] Americans as of the 2010 Census.[2] However, a measurable higher percentage acknowledge having same-sex attraction, or experience, without identifying as LGBT.”
It should be noted that surveys like this are worthless for determining the actual level of same-sex attraction amongst the population, due to the social ramifications and connotations of being admittedly homosexual.
Ehhhh… that’s a really dark path you’re going down. People generally don’t like being told their identity is due to ‘genetic but recessive’ genes or that ‘YOU could be a carrier for the gay gene!’. The thing is sexuality is a very complex and fluid thing that has both nature and nurture components.
And that’s not even considering bisexuals. Especially considering people can slide back and forth along the Kinsey scale throughout their lives.
For some reason, the more older brothers you have, the more likely it is that you will be gay. Willis mentioned it in a Shortpacked! strip in reference to that one fundie couple on TV who have had like twenty kids (I became aware of them at a “14 Kids and Pregnant Again!” TV show; they’ve had some more since then (“We’re just going to keep having as many babies as the good lord blesses us with!” Yes, but you can’t afford the ones you do have. Hey, if you aren’t into birth control, have you tried abstinence? I hear that’s a thing)). “That mum is just a big ol’ gay baby-making machine!” or words to that effect (I am too lazy to go look now).
Anyways, there seems to be factors beyond just the purely genetic, is what I’m saying.
That’s the Duggars, whose show is currently 19 Kids and Counting. Yeah, the Duggars may be in for a very, to them, uncomfortable surprise when their youngest kids are old enough to have a preference. Of course it’s likely one or more of the kids will become a non-believer or shift their Christianity to a less conservative form, which likely would also make them unhappy.
I suspect that if they exist in the DoA universe Joyce would probably think the Duggars are a bit over the top.
Homosexuality may be recessive, but also respond to population pressures. In environments with low population pressure, the gene simply isn’t expressed, to encourage reproduction. In environments with high population pressure, the gene would be triggered, helping to reduce births.
Jerden: The field of epigenetics would beg to differ.
A quick overview: “Epigenes” are basically proteins or other markers that attach themselves to certain genes in the presence of certain environmental factors, turning them on or off (but usually off).
What Deanatay is saying could be translated thus: If a large amount of human pheromones, especially those similar to your own, are present in the environment, the “gay genes” would be activated or the “straight genes” would be deactivated; if not, the reverse would happen.
Of course, all this crazy stuff would only happen in the early stages of development, and it doesn’t explain bisexuals. Also, I’m not a professional and am probably blowing smoke up my butt.
Jerden, it may be more than the genes though. For example you may need certain chemical triggers to make them release the proper hormones even if you have the right genetics. We don’t realise it but we’re all giving off and responding to different pheromones and other things all the time. Our bodies react to these things without our conscious knowledge.
The mechanism isn’t, abstractly speaking, implausible. I find the evolutionary logic pretty dubious. If ‘you’ (your genes) ‘want’ (have been selected for) some of your children to help your other children raise grandchildren, you have asexuals, not homosexuals. You also do it more reliably than we see in the occurrence of homosexuality. There’s no mechanism for evolving low birth rates “for the good of the species”; if ‘you’ ‘think’ resources are getting tight for your family it’d make more sense to not have kids at all, not to have homosexual ones. E.g. stressed rabbit mothers re-absorbing their fetuses.
What’s the evolutionary logic of intersex or transgenderism? I don’t think there is one, it just happens. Likewise for homosexuality.
I’m not claiming that I know any of this, I’m just theorizing.
Why select for homosexuality rather than asexuality for population control? Perhaps asexuality causes an evolutionarily disadvantageous decrease in sex drive? If you need a mechanism to decrease fertility temporarily while leaving the organism evolutionarily viable, homosexuality would allow the organism to still have a strong sex drive, but temporarily redirect it to an infertile pairing to reduce population growth. A gene for asexuality may decrease the sex drive of the organism, even in a heterozygous recessive, leading to a genetic disadvantage.
LGBT people may well be 5% or less, and half of that is likely B, not LG. We have no good idea of what the genetics of homosexuality or bisexuality are. We don’t even know that it *is* genetic; it could simply the result of a complex developmental process sometimes giving non-standard results. Yeah, there was a study in November suggesting an X-chromosome link for male homosexuality, but it’s far from conclusive, nor accepted widely by other researchers.
It wasn’t though since the ‘cure’ was just a repression effect and eventually wore off. They never stopped being mutants they just got rid of the mutations and it was shown to be temporary by the end, making the whole thing pointless.
That seems to fit with the overall very depressing world view Ethan seems to have about his sexuality. I guess that’s not completely his fault though. It’s society’s and his terrible mother’s.
One of the most terrifying things about humanity is that you can imprison someone within their own mind. It’s how we socialize people, but there are some pretty terrible mental states you can get trapped in. Such as Ethan’s.
You never stopped being gay to begin with Ethan. And you’re gay, not sterile, there’s nothing stopping you from jizzing in a cup and knocking a friend up with it.
Now do what you likely never let yourself do before and go look at some dudes and enjoy the fuck out of it. The more you do it the more you’ll feel better.
Hear, hear. Really, this could have ended so much worse for both of them. Be grateful to have a second chance of not fucking it up, Ethan (either your coming out or your staying in the closet, whichever you chose).
Except make her father not be an asshat apparently. Assuming of course some of the recent speculation isn’t true, and Becky’s recounting of what happened is in fact accurate.
Well, depends on what kind of writing he’s going for. He could try for comedy, I mean I giggled at his little monologue here. And yes, I know he went into stand-up comedy in the walkyverse, but there are other outlets, such as being a writer for a TV show or a podcast or whatever. Or blogging. Idk. Writers gonna write.
He could go for a super meta narrative, that starts off like “How I Met Your Mother,” but then it turns out he’s not telling the story to his kids, but a pair of spoons.
It’s also for hurting dudes’ feelings, and in a very specific way both times.
Think of a woman who that title would fit: stubborn, short-tempered, selfish. These negative traits are generally more commonly associated with men.
Think of a man who that title would fit: wishy-washy, wimpy, whiny. These negative traits are generally more commonly associated with women.
The word isn’t just bad against women. It’s punishing people for straying from gender roles when you could just call out the negative behaviors in and of themselves without resorting to that particular word.
Those traits are only more associated with women because of mysogyny, though, so the word is slanderous of women every way you come at it.
And “bongo” is an awesome replacement, because its differing vowel placement and syllables make it almost unrecognizable as the word it’s replacing, unlike most censoring which assumes that you’re afraid of the letters but not the intent.
Misogyny hurts men too. It’s kind of screwed up that the “muscular jock who cares for little other than having sex with as many women as possible” is considered the manliest man and the most respected despite contributing far less to society than, say, a wishy-washy scholar like Nikola Tesla. And that’s seriously insulting to men in general if you stop to think about it. But it’s that muscular jock that most closely fits the profile for “man” the b-word on anyone. “She’s acting kinda like the stupid asshole that we all wish we were!” And when you use the b-word on a man, it’s “why isn’t he acting like the stupid asshole we all wish we were?” You need not look farther than the first comment in this particular thread: accusing Ethan of that behavior because he is thinking about his emotional problems and the consequences thereof, rather than being the stupid asshole.
The b-word is condensed regressiveness for both genders. Yes, regressiveness absolutely hurts women more than men, but that isn’t to say men aren’t still very damaged by it when it happens.
I was rather surprised some years ago when I learned that Bongo is in fact a legitimate African name. The late Omar Bongo Ondimba(born Albert-Bernard Bongo) was President of Gabon from 1967 until his death in 2009. His son Ali was elected as his replacement.
I was more referring to the fact that ‘Bongoland’ (or Bongo Bongo Land) is derogatory slang for Africa itself. Fairly old and obscure, but has seen recent use:
I was about to say that we’ll likely never see that here, but then I remembered a counterexample. Something about the “bongoiest bongo in bongoland”. Still, it’s really not worth worrying about the unintentional use of obscure slurs.
More to the point, I get the sense that Willis has a policy of introducing a filter once things get too unpleasant here. If we started labeling Roz, Becky, or some other girl as a ‘conga’ instead of a ‘bongo’, I bet we’d get a new filter added.
I don’t think there was an announcement – Willis just introduced the filter, then later that day acknowledged the existence of said filter in the comments, along with an explanation why.
Ryan must have placed a curse on Joyce that gradually turns everyone with a sexual connection to her into villains. Ethan is monologuing, Becky is being a jerkface, EVERYTHING FITS!
Clearly Ethan needs to delve into his Jewish heritage and fashion a facsimile of life from Clay and animate it with the power of the word! The Golem shall live again!
Or both; siblings for the win! Though twins are substantially more work for the parents to manage, I imagine.
I always wanted a little sister, but one wrought of living clay? That would’ve been pretty rad.
That’s how I read it, too! It makes me happy.
I feel like it’s not always super in character for some of the DoA folks who are pretty new to these concepts/feelings (like Ethan and Danny), but I read it as an intentional inclusive gesture on Willis’ part, so it’s still good by me.
To make it more in character, I like to imagine that there’s a solidly established, trans-focused student group on campus that’s put up some good informational posters and/or maybe did a brief talk at the frosh orientation events, so that the cast who weren’t previously familiar with such stuff aren’t perfect at it (it’s very possible to ignore posters or orientation lectures) but are starting to get a rough sense of things over time.
You’d be surprised. Transwomen are fairly well known about, but transmen face a lot more erasure and the statement “those exist?” comes up depressingly often.
That’s likely because most people won’t actually count you as the gender you want to be until you can finish the transition (and maybe not even then) so while making a penis into a vagina is doable I’m not use the other way really is yet. So as far as they’re concered they’re still just women. It’s wrong, of course.
Scientists are working on growing organs. I’m sure they’ll get around to growing penises eventually… hopefully not on the back of a mouse a la South Park.
Take ’em from motorcycle riders without helmets (aka organ donors)? I think the biggest problem would be proper installation, so to speak – aside from the usual rejection, of course. Unlike other organs, you’re dealing with a body that wasn’t properly configured to utilize the organ in question.
That’s why I went with growing it from scratch. Take some cells from the person who’s going to receive it. Culture them properly in an appropriate scaffold with the right chemical signals to tell the cells to become parts of a dick. Since it’s the patient’s own cells, there won’t be any rejection issue.
Hopefully Ethan will snap out of this funk and he’ll realize that there’s nothing wrong with his sexuality. Maybe go talk to some of his friends. I’m sure they’ll support him.
Which makes it all the more depressing. He’s not just hallucinating that a couple of spoons are his grandkids, he’s hallucinating the spoons themselves.
It seems Like Ethan is more upset about this break up because he hast to go back to being the single Gay nerd and not upset because he still wants to be with Joyce.
I think Ethan actually likes Joyce as a friend, which may surprise a lot of people, but she seems like a pleasant enough girlfriend. Very much in the Amber-vein but without the horrific childhood trauma.
Well, buddy, if you’re talking about your gayness out loud in public, even just to yourself, without Amber there to drag it out of you, that’s… a step.
But can you damn well quit holding girls responsible for outing you? Joyce breaking up with you doesn’t blow your closet up; she’s not gonna tell anyone else why she did it. That’s up to you, dude.
I have no idea why, but I’m thinking Aquaman. The Flash might work too. Blue Beetle? Booster Gold?
We know he likes Batman, but I suspect that’d be icky – some things don’t mix well. Do we know if he likes Marvel comics at all?
Oh, he knows what you mean. Although, given his taste in both comics and guys, he might be more into old-school Peter Parker. Like, with the flat-top hair and everything.
Maybe not the movies, but he and Danny had a snarky bonding moment over Ethan’s love of Jack Kirby. If he’s not into the Marvel stuff, maybe he’s all about the New Gods.
This might be my favorite strip in the history of this comic, because it, more than anything else, expresses the “wait, what the hell just happened?” feeling that was like 80% of undergrad for me.
I definitely read ‘what a great story’ in a Tommy Wiseau kinda voice, which made me read the entire thing in his voice, which made it even funnier. Idek.
You could always go with the suggestion of using ‘dot tumblr dot com’ instead of ‘is my band name’. AnotherTerribleIdea.tumblr.com sums up like 98% of all Tumblr pages.
You know, I kind of want to see Mary revealed to be gay. It’d be interesting to explore the opposite of what Becky is going through: Instead of rejecting the terrible aspects that try to condemn her, what if Mary has accepted them and acts the way she does towards Billie and Ruth because she “defeated” her own sexuality.
I still subscribe to the headcanon that Mary is covering up scars using those wristbands.
There’s no way those wristbands aren’t significant. Every single time we’ve seen Mary she has them on unless she’s wearing a long sleeve shirt that covers her wrists. She wears them in her pajamas or when she’s otherwise unclothed for God’s sake. It’s not like Willis hasn’t had an article of clothing act as a major plot point for a certain other character.
You know, we never did get an explanation as to why she was in her room, wearing nothing but wristbands and panties, in the middle of the day, with the door unlocked.
Oh Ethan. Dear sweet Ethan. Even talking to a couple of spoons is better than talking out loud to empty air outside an aggressively pinkly sparkling door.
I assume there are sparkles, anyway. Joyce did the decorating.
Ethan, we get it. Break-ups are hard, and the world can seem dark and terrible. What you need is a trip to the comic book store. Come on. Phone a friend. Things will look better in a few days — a year in reader-time, but still.
Ethan’s problem is clearly he’s got a vulnerability to mind-control as he does what everyone else says to do as if they had the power of the Purple Man. It’s his superpower. He’s like the Anti-Green Lantern for willpower.
Becky has a major problem. She has no boundries and needs some, now.
Ethan has no need to listen to her crap.
A good friend of mine carried a child for her gay best friend and his husband. She lived in a state allowing gays to adopt, while they did not. All worked out well for them.
There are always ways to be a father: Ethan has to start thinking out of the box.
Ethan breaking up with Joyce is better this way. If they made it to the altar, he’d just have to make a deal with Mephisto to remove it or get the universe rebooted.
My main issue here isn’t that Ethan is denying that gay men can form families through adoption or surrogacy or that he’s still talking about being gay like such a huge, unwanted burden but that he took Becky’s words to heart. Like, your relationship with Joyce is *your* relationship with Joyce and some random comment by Joyce’s other friend (even if “best friend”) shouldn’t just make you decide to leave.
I think the fact that he apparently took Becky breaking up with him more seriously than JOYCE breaking up with him is more of an issue here. Joyce didn’t ‘basically’ break up with him. She broke up with him.
No, but since their relationship was so similar to a normal friendship anyway they need to change their behavior somehow to mark – for themselves if nothing else – that things have changed.
I really hope by the time our grandkids are around, “coming out” won’t be a thing any more. Everyone (who’s gay) will just be “Oh, I’m gay.” then the other person’s all “That’s cool. Did you catch the hoverboard vert regionals last night? It was so bomb.” (also, “bomb” as a adjective will come back)
I mean…it’s essentially like that in much of europe. England for sure has a very disinterested attitude about sexuality. There are even cute old lesbian couples who make my heart all fuzzy and warm. No one cares.
I live in the UK. It’s a heck of a lot better now than it used to be, but no, there’s still plenty of prejudice to go around at street level. It’s getting a lot better, but there is and was a whole lot of better to get.
We still had near-riots over the idea of gay marriage, even here, ya know. And that was just last year. It IS legal now, at least.
Generally it takes about 30-60 years before the general opinion changes because of a new legislation, depending on how long the bigots who opposed the law stay alive and continue to influence their children/grandchildren. After that we might start seeing the rise of a generation of 18-25 year olds who have grown up alongside homosexuals or people with homosexual parents and know from observing them that there’s nothing wrong with either.
One example would be some high schools in southern states that opposed the law to make segregation illegal. The grandparents and parents of the white students were white supremacists, but the majority of the current generation there are not.
Thomas Kuhn’s work on the structure of scientific revolutions applies here. Even after a new consensus is reached, you still have to wait for a generation for the dead enders to die off. May even take two generations with cultural things. And even then, the dead enders will persist. Personally, I like living in the future on things like that.
Whoa whoa whoa, slow down! Fundamental change like that is probably going to take upwards of 150 years! You can’t just make “bomb” a slang word again *that* quickly, the social order can’t bear the strain!
I glossed right over that. A man was pregnant in Junior, though, which was obviously based on real events, just like all of Arnold Swarzenegger’s other movies, so I guess the probability is non-zero…
I assumed it was used to provide emphasis, like ‘well, most days the sun doesn’t crash into the earth, so I guess I’m going to have to wake up in the morning single.’
You mean transgender women. (Whether you call them trans man or trans woman is dependent on which they identify as, not their biological sex or assigned gender.)
I hate to say it but he needs to get some action. Right now his gayness is stuck in a conceptual level, he doesn’t really get how much more he’ll enjoy anything with a man more than he does with a woman.
Why not? Is it better to keep everything bottled up until he really does have a psychotic break? Talking to yourself is fine. It’s when you’re carrying on a vocal conversation with the voices in your head that no one else can hear while pausing while they speak their part in it that really makes people wonder. (Yes I’m speaking from experience, as a witness to this behavior in someone else over a period of several years.)
I don’t think that’s how psychotic breaks happen. As far as I understand, a normal person has a sudden and unexpected break from reality, and thus becomes schizophrenic. Among the sadder illnesses out there, if you ask me – you can still remember a time when you were normal and in touch with reality, but you will never have that again.
Ethan is the Everyman when talking to himself it appears. Who doesn’t worry about their possible future talking to spoons as if they are the offspring of their offspring? Who doesn’t have to, at least once, contemplate where to go from here now that your girlfriend’s best friend has fired you from your boyfriend job? Ethan, here, in this strip, is all of us.
Sorry, Ethan, but you don’t get to choose your sexuality. Having a ‘girlfriend’ isn’t going to suddenly turn you straight, any more than neo-fascist ‘Christian’ cure-camps are.
Unlike a lot of people commenting here, I don’t have a problem with Ethan listening to Becky. He needs to have it pointed out to him, however, that if girlfriend’s best friend says “Take a hike,” and you say “OK,” rather than “Screw you, I’m fighting for this relationship,” then that’s probably a good indicator that girlfriend was onto something when she told you ‘goodbye’ a few strips ago.
I agree. Becky didn’t know the facts, but she hit the right nerve. The (scam of) a relationship between Joyce and Ethan was OVER, the fact that his first act after the breakup was to follow her home doesn’t change that. Ethan needed to realize that.
You are right, he did and it was awesome and I did make it sound less benevolent than that. But from what he says here I don’t think it hit home that Joyce had broken up with him until now.
Maybe they’ll identify as spoons, but be HAABs (Human Assigned At Birth). I mean, sure, society has quite a way to go before the broader public accept transspoons people, but with a little luck, by the time Ethan’s old enough for grandkids, society will have progressed at least that far.
It was that running gag back in the dingdong-bandit chapter when everyone and their avatar suggested different methods to remove permanent marker from whiteboards. It ended up being tiresome and then either more tiresome or hilarious, depending on who you ask.
He could still talk Joyce out of it, since Joyce was breaking up with him for his own good, so all he’d have to do is convince her that what’s good for him is to keep on pretending. Becky fired him because she judged him inadequate, which is harder to talk your way out of (or would be if Becky had any authority to fire him).
Since this storyline is called “Three’s a Crowd”, I keep noticing three-person problems all over the place. Three people in Joyce and Sarah’s room. Ethan-Joyce-Becky. Amber-Danny-Ethan. Dorothy-Joyce-Becky. Maybe Walky and Dorothy run into mopey Sal when they go out for a drink – Walky-Dorothy-Sal. Then there was Sal-Marcie-Malaya. Billie paying Becky off so she could be alone with Ruth, because three’s a crowd. Amazigirl-Amber-Danny.
That were the reasons Joyce gave him, but it was clear that Joyce suffered a lot of frustration living that lie. I think Joyce is much better off without fake boyfriend.
I wouldn’t say jealousy. There are other kinds of three-person problems. Of the ones I listed, only Becky-Joyce-Dorothy and Malaya-Marcie-Sal involve jealousy at this point. Maybe Ethan-Joyce-Becky, but since Becky’s outvoted by Joyce’s heterosexuality, it’s kind of a pointless jealousy.
Stay in the closet as long as you like, be as open or discrete as you like, but next time you want someone to be your beard, be sure they are OK with that role.
Couldn’t Ethan have predicted it? The way she practically threw himself on him after a church-date didn’t scream “OK with a fake relationship” to me.
The smart thing would have been to get to know her better, spill the beans and slowly ease into a beard relationship (if that was what both wanted). The way Joyce escalated things to a kiss in two days made that impossible – which means that the smart thing would have been to ease OUT of it (about at the time when Amber screamed at him to do just that). He could also have seen Joyce’s sexual frustration as a sign that it was time to end the relationship. Instead he just let things be and left her to do the hard work.
But yeah, now we are quibbling about details. It was a bad relationship, both of them did stupid things and it’s a good thing it’s over. But if Ethan ever wants to try something similar again he needs to be much smarter about it or have the same or a worse fiasco explode on him again.
The biggest catalyst that sparked the breakup was today’s gender studies lecture, and Roz’s outburst within it. Joyce was happy to be complicit in the church’s “fix the gay people” mentality until today. No, Joyce wasn’t ever satisfied with Ethan’s chronic lack of intimacy from day one, but that’s a sign of Ethan’s subconscious discomfort in the relationship rather than Joyce’s.
Ethan could have potentially predicted a breakup (even if he would have to stop living in denial first). A breakup was nigh-inevitable. What I’m saying is that Ethan couldn’t have predicted that it’d happen because Joyce would no longer want to be his beard, as she was happy with that idea until today. Nobody could have guessed Becky would show up and lay the groundwork for Leslie and Roz to get Joyce to realize how shitty gay-erasure is.
At least when he talks to himself, all the speech bubbles are the same color. If Amber talked to Amazi-Girl, it would involve different colored speech bubbles. So stay out of Deadpool territory Ethan.
My theory for how all this resolves is pretty simple. Polyamory. Ethan/Danny/Amber. Ethan and Danny clearly have the hots for each other, Danny and Amber very clearly love each other, and Amber and Ethan also still very much love each other (in a totally non-sexual way, of course).
This way, everyone’s happy. Ethan get’s a family that will most likely produce offspring, Amber gets to be with her two favorite people on earth, and Danny get’s to bang two people who are way WAAAY out of his league.
I’m pretty sure it would take Danny some time not to do the same mistake.
I think Danny is the smallest problem in the equation. I really can’t see Amber and Ethan getting together in anything that is part of a romantic relationship anytime soon – too much hurt feelings for both of them – and I don’t think it would be healthy for them anyway. They need each other as friends, at this point I don’t think they should try to complicate that any more than it already is.
I think Amber needs to reconcile the two parts of her persona, among other things by not pretending that Amziegirl can have a separate boyfriend from Amber (and with lots of therapy).
I think Danny needs a partner that is willing to recognize their relationship in public (not a masked superhero-but-not-her-civilian-persona or a closeted gay dude, no matter how glorious his man-chest).
I think Ethan needs to either leave the closet, stay out of relationships for awhile or become much, MUCH better at communicating with his partner.
Awwww. Thank you. I do some tumbling, but that’s mostly for reblogging. Right now my main internet presence consist of overanalyzing the personal lives of comic characters right here 🙂
He also fell pretty hard for Ethan. Literally though. Fell in the grass.
Also, that’s the exact point I was making, He thought he was straight, he thinks he’s monogamous. Also, he’s really only taken a stand against Promiscuity (a la Joe), which is very very different thing from a committed Poly relationship. It’s quite possible his hangup is the commitment part, not the strictly one person part.
None of them are emotionally mature or stable enough to pull that off even on the vague chance any of them wanted to.
Besides, Amber/Danny is pretty messed up and really shouldn’t continue. Especially since it’s actually Amazi-Girl/Danny and Amber is actively trying to give herself multiple personalities.
Yes yes yes Amber/Danny needs to come to a screeching halt. I really dislike that she doesn’t want anyone to know that she and Danny are dating. Maybe that might be fun for the first few weeks, but eventually, Danny is going to get sick of it. It needs to end now, while they still are on good terms, instead of later when Danny has harsh feelings towards her.
Amber needs to sort herself out before she dates ANYONE.
I didn’t think I would say this, but I think Joe has the best solution for Danny.
Danny is a hopeless romantic who derives his own value from his partner. He had to be extracted kicking and screaming from a dying relationship and now he latches on to everyone that gives him the time of the day. He would need a dramafree* relationship to be sickingly sweet in for awhile while he adjusts to life in college. I really hope Ethan can be that doofus for him – if he decides to come out of the closet that is.
Ethan might not be the boyfriend Joyce wants, but he’s the friend she needs. His reaction to “we need to break up” was “I’m going to walk you home so you’re not out here alone”.
He deserves better than to be shoved out the door.
Characters talk to themselves very, very frequently in this comic. Thought bubbles are rarely employed. Perhaps it’s to prevent the audience from hearing things that an eavesdropper wouldn’t.
“You, there in the front row, you look glum, you got dumped or something? Let me tell you about that one time I got dumped so hard… I got dumped first by this girl I was dating, and then dumped again by her best friend [light laughter], and she was a lesbian [more laugh]… AND I’M FRIGGIN’ GAY [heavy laughter]. Anyway, that reminds me of a batman joke I heard the other day…”
Well, at least Ethan seems to be adjusting to his new reality quickly. He doesn’t seem upset at all in that last panel.
Here’s to hoping that his newfound “just dudes from [now] on for me” sticks. Go, Ethan. Embrace your gayness and be happ – oh, wait, a Willis comic. This is going to end horribly (and possibly also hilariously), isn’t it?
Ethan said that dude on dude cannot result in pregnancy. He’s not talking about adoption, he’s not talking about artificial insemination, he’s talking about a child born from himself and his partner. He is making himself sad and upset because he can never have that.
At this age, Ethan is probably aware of adoption and artificial insemination. But that’s not the point. If you said that to him, he’d say “Yeah well we HAVE to do that. We don’t have a choice. And anyway, both are expensive, and who knows if we’ll even get approved for a child. And what if we can’t find a carrier? Maybe we can go the cheap route and use a turkey baster, but we still need to find a woman. We’ll never have it easy, we’ll never be able to say ‘Wanna make a baby’ and just do it!”
I’m… not sure he’s upset about that. Maybe it’s just that the viewpoint is further from his face and we lose facial expression definition (or maybe it’s just me), but there seems to be a lessening of “upsetiness” from the second panel on.
I’m sure we’ll have clarification in further strips, but that last panel strikes me less “I’m upset I’ll never have biological kids easily” (and, btw, there’s plenty of hetero couples who can’t have biological kids either) than “hah, look at the silly place my rant got me to.”
I don’t think he’s upset about kids either. It’s just another stick to beat himself with as part of the main issue, which is that he’s upset / ashamed about being gay. I sympathize – I was in denial about my own sexuality from the age of about 14 through to 23. It’s a scary thing to be beset by thoughts which your upbringing and culture say are wrong, but which you have no control over.
Also if you have a baby you’re encouraged to talk to it as you go about your day; helps them learn language and bond with you. Problem is, once you get used to narrating/holding a one-sided conversation with something that can’t really respond, it’s really, really, really hard to stop. If the dog’s there, you’re talking to the dog; if you’re on your own, you’re talking to yourself… And then the husband is in the next room complaining that he can’t hear you and you have to try to explain that you weren’t talking to him–despite no one else being in the house right then…
Why, yes, I do know this from personal experience. 😀 Why do you ask?
As Daniel the Human says, “sometimes the only decent conversation you can have is with yourself”. That & apparently he says things out loud deliberately to make sure they make sense. That said, we both know he’s already kinda crazy…
Ethan and Joyce’s break up is really anticlimactic. I’m not really surprised by that part. What I don’t get is how Ethan is thinking or believing he had a choice in being gay. He certainly was reacting consistently with that orientation. I guess I’m puzzled by his desire to live in the closet. I’ve never had to live his situation so I dunno, I’m ignorant, I’d rather understand where he’s coming from.
You know, I really feel for Ethan. It’s all well and good for us in the comments section, and Roz/Joyce/Dorothy/Becky/etc to proclaim what’s best for him, but at least in the short term I believe Joyce HAS been what’s best for him. In the long term, obviously not, but he wasn’t lying when he told Amber he was happy.
He’s spent a whole summer and the entirety of the school year before meeting Joyce (however long that’s been) being nothing but Ethan Who Is Gay. Everything in his life revolved around it, no one he knows and loves (INCLUDING Amber) was willing to talk about anything else, in fact everyone he knew and loved left him in some way because of is. Being gay has made his life awful. Who wouldn’t want to change awful into not-awful?
With Joyce, he got to do and talk about other things. He watched cartoons with her. He befriended Danny and they talked comic books and bonded over mutual love of Amber/Amazigirl. He got to be Ethan again.
Now he’s been shoved back into awful and isolation, as far as he knows. It’s a state he has no experience-based reason to expect anyone to help him with or relieve him of. He can’t watch cartoons with Amber and be her best friend: she only sees Gay Ethan who has exhausted her. Mike is an unrelenting asshole and always has been. Joyce has declared herself to be no longer interested in dealing with him. No doubt Danny will abandon him as well, because Danny is Amber’s boyfriend and also he sort of lied to Danny about not being gay.
What he needs is some experience of ‘gay does not necessarily have to mean awful isolation’ but I’m not sure I see him getting that anytime soon, because I’m not sure that anyone really sees that as the real problem. I hope I’m wrong. :-/
(I should also add that I think here is where Roz or Joe could really shine. Roz would be thrilled to really help someone, and sex-positive is her whole thing. Joe would be thrilled to really be somebody’s wingman for once.)
Well said. Since I’m feeling silly right now I’m just going to run with the last sentence.
Joe: “Hey, what’re you moping about.”
Ethan: “My girlfriend broke up with me and…”
Joe: “Just be glad to be rid of that one and that you didn’t get punched in the fa…”
Billie: “FAAAAAAACE”.
Joe: “…what she said. Don’t worry, I know a six who is open for…”
Ethan: “No, I can’t hide being gay anymore.”
Joe: “Gay, huh? And you have a batman t-shirt and are a bit of a dweeb…”
[Scene cut]
Joe: “Don’t say I’m not doing anything for you. The room is yours, lube and condoms are in the top drawer. I’ll be out all night (if you know what I mean). Have fun.”
Danny: “…errr….”
Ethan: “…that is….”
Joe: “Don’t you dare make the sock a liar again.”
Thanks for this. It was really well written and I get where he’s coming from now. I forget that his experience hasn’t been very supportive but only tolerant at best. It makes sense that being just Ethan can be appealing even if it includes the closet. I’d love to see Roz or Joe help him out, but he hasn’t had much contact with them.
He hasn’t, you’re right, so it’s more like wishful thinking from me.
Of the two, I think contact with Joe would be easiest; he could meet Joe through Danny, and Ethan’s feeeeeeelings problems (unlike Danny’s) really can sort of be partially solved kinda in a way with a hookup or three. Plus, Joe’s in Gender Studies too and was witness to the whole Joyce and Roz shebang plus the lecture that preceded it. I think he might well embrace the role as Ethan’s wingman not just because he loves being a wingman but because that lecture (and Joyce’s reaction) seemed to hit home for him, too, a little.
Right? It’d be good for both of them very similarly to the way a Joyce/Roz friendship would be good for both of them but without the major roadblocks to be demolished first. Ethan’s very understanding and empathetic but lacks spine and will. Roz is all spine and will but short on real empathy/understanding. They could learn from each other and both be better for it.
Boom boom, ain’t it great to be,
Crazy?!
Boom boom, ain’t it great to be nuts?
Giddy & foolish, the whole day long.
Boom boom, ain’t it great to be,
CCRRAAAZZYYYYY!!!!
I think the thing boils down to the fact Ethan is entirely comfortable living a life without sex or romantic love. He enjoys his toys, his books, and the celibate lifestyle so to speak if it means not disappointing his parents. Its entirely realistic but so UNNECESSARY.
It’s a valid interpretation, and I think it’s pretty close to how Ethan sees himself, but I don’t believe it. The way he flirts with any cute boy that crosses his path and gets heartpatter whenever he sees Jacob says to me that he would love to be both romantically and sexually active in a world where that didn’t mean formulating his entire identity around it.
I think he would love to be like Dorothy, for example. She comes to college with a boyfriend, dumps him, get a new one in a week, dresses him like a doll and regularly runs off to have sex with him – and yet she is defined by her ambition and studiousness in the eyes of herself and everyone else (including the audience).
Poor Ethan. I kind of can’t help but think that spending an evening or three dancing with cute guys down at the local gay bar would help a lot, though.
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his twin grandkids Tube and Sock
or was it Tube and Steak idk
Fairly sure it’s sock. Because I REALLY don’t think you’re supposed to do that to a steak.
And yet, Tube Steak is a thing. :/
I was not aware this thing was a thing other than the thing it already was. But now I want somebody to grow actual steak into a tube shape in a laboratory. FOR SCIENCE!
I think tube steak refers to his diddly-do
When in doubt, listen to pintsize.
Silly Ethan, it’s not Raisin Bran (Two Scoops!!)
It’s Froot Loops, DUH.
Perhaps he’s gone cuckoo? (For Cocoa Puffs)
This Ethan seems pretty concerned about his ability to produce offspring, unlike some other Ethans I could mention.
This could be part of why he wanted his relationship with Joyce. Maybe he wants a traditional family.
Traditional marriage? 1 man, 700 wives, 300 concubines, and a kitchen condiment? That traditional marriage?
Betty Bowers Explains Traditional Marriage to Everyone Else:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw
A kitchen condiment?
Watch the video.
Some people just assume they’ll have kids eventually, having the reality set in that you not only probably won’t but that you likely shouldn’t because you’d be bad at it is pretty harsh.
“Daddy, why is Daddy talking to the spoons again?”
Hot Shot and… I dunno, probably another Hot Shot.
Robin Scherbatsky: And that, kids, is how I learnt that I could never have you… *imagined future kids fade away*
CRAZY OLD MAN ETHAN SPIN OFF
MAKE IT HAPPEN WILLIS
There’s always adoption! Your future sanity may yet be saved.
Though joe could always come in with super-soaker action or something.
They could hose each other down then bang!
I have a gay friend who artificially inseminated one of his female friends. So that’s also an option.
multiverse travel stealing the kids from his straigth paralel universe self is always a option
I believe it’s established that all Ethans in all universes are gay.
Though given the way they seem to go for unfulfilling relationships with women anyway, I guess it’s possible that some of them have fathered children regardless. That seems to be how Ethan himself came to be.
Pretty sure I remember him married to Amber in the universe that didn’t have the drama tag pulled, so there’s that, at least.
That Amber was also hideously frustrated because her Ethan was still gay and therefore had no interest in sexing her.
timemonkey
Where the heck is the character in your gravatar from?! I’ve been trying to figure it out. It’s right on the edge of my memory and I just can’t think of it!
Reboot your brain. That’ll help.
Nice, but not the same.
It may be the advice columnists I read shouting through me, but “You know you can adopt, right?” is super condescending to people with issues having children. DUH, it’s an option.
It’s also not super easy like going down to Walmart and getting a
prostitutebaby from Aisle 6… and two dudes are going to have particularly difficult times adopting compared to “regular” couples, and YAY ALL THE INTRUSIVE QUESTIONS when you happen to adopt a child from a different race. [SUPER INTRUSIVE if you are black adopting white–“did you steal that baby??” etc.]I also have a friend who was adopted and is super angry about it because the adoptive mother basically acted like Friend should be So Grateful for having been adopted and was basically treated like the Dursleys treated Harry Potter.
ANECDOTALLY ANYWAYI’m sure most folks love it and Ethan will have wonderful grandbabies in like 983274 years from now comic-to-realtime
(inb4 RARHHRAHARH) I’m just saying “you can adopt” is super obvious and he’s had like five seconds to think
Is it condescending to suggest cloning?
…Or black magic?
Suggesting cloning is just snarky; suggesting black magic is the opposite of condescending, in that it will make everyone think you’re an idiot.
See, I was aiming for “silly,” but evidently missed the mark…
Oh no, I got that; I didn’t mean “you” specifically; I was evaluating it as if they were real proposals, because I am a facetious piece of shit.
If, however, you can provide a grimoire or sufficiently dark caliber, then you are instead treated as an object of fear and wonder. Which, y’know … not so bad, really If that’s your thing.
But then your everything else becomes condescending, because that is just how supervillains tend to operate
I have a copy of the Necronomicon back here, I’m sure we can come up with something.
Anyone up for some human transmutation?
I dunno. Some experiments are expensive – it might cost an arm and a leg.
That made me audibly groan
Congratulations.
It might even cost you your only family!
People seem to be missing the point that the whole not having babies part isn’t the reason Ethan’s depressed, it’s just another layer of the ‘things I can’t have because gay’ cake he’s feeding himself.
‘You know you can just adopt right?’ isn’t the answer to Ethan’s dilemma, him getting over the bleak future he’s painted for himself because he’s gay is.
This, very much. He’s an eighteen-year-old without enough life experience to realize that a) his job in life really isn’t to live up to each and every one of his parents’ expectations for him, and b) if they end up rejecting him if/when he comes out, there’s the entire LGBT community as a potential support group.
Still, I can understand him trying to find a way to be happy and keep his parents happy. I mean, it can’t be too hard to change your sexual orientation, can it? Worth a shot!
(jokes!)
I realize that saying “you can adopt” isn’t terribly sensitive, but I think everyone is reacting with a bit of incredulity to the mix of self pity, general cluelessness, and internalized homophobia Ethan’s got going here. I mean, seriously? Delusion and hallucination is the ONLY way you can imagine getting grandkids? Ethan. Dude. There are so many ways that people end up with offspring besides penis in vagina sex.
There is the aforementioned adoption or surrogacy routes.
Ethan could fall in long term love with a fellow who was bi or late out of the closet and had children from a previous relationship.
Ethan could fall in love with a trans guy.
Godfather.
A wonderful old lady in my neighbourhood was a former high school teacher who basically kidnapped her (willing) student out of an abusive home situation and got away with it because she was one of those personalities that got away with things. A risky option that I do not necessarily recommend Ethan imitate, as he is not a badass fallen nun/drama teacher, but it could happen!
Just, “gay men can’t produce offspring” is something that we mostly hear from homophobic assholes inventing excuses why homosexuality shouldn’t be allowed. The fact that Ethan is spouting it makes everyone want to smack him with the clue bat for his own good. It’s a failure of imagination.
I dunno. My friend and his husband (married in New York) have two adopted sons, and through the Texas adoption system to boot.
I was going to say; Tell David Gerrold that, he’s gay and it’s totally possible that he might be a grandfather if his adopted kid gets married and has kids of his own!
Read “The Martian Child.” Ignore the movie, David does.
…You could just adopt kids.
It seems so much easier to just over ride some girl’s eggs with his DNA and have his husband inseminate her.
I know, right? Can someone let Joe know he needs to invent that?
Welcome to Shortpacking of Age! Kneel before double universal Galasso!
…. Soggies may rule all.
Excuse me I think you mean “soggies May rule your FAAACE with a femur”
Read all about it in the Journalism Telegraph for only a nickel.
Hey, don’t dis spoons! They’re great at conversation. Unlike sporks. Goddamn sporks.
They may not be much for conversation, but sporks have a mean left jab.
The direction isn’t really important it’s the jab. Any jab is good if it’s self defense, but an attack is evil. My right spork is titanium and my left is extra medium. Heeheehee hahahaahaha BWAHAHAHAAAHAAAA!!!
Ahem… err, sporks, man! Pointy spoons.
A spork is just a debased version of a Splayd.
*patriotic cheer*
The Splayd – one of Australia’s best inventions
That’s enough of all that, stick a fork in it.
Shouldn’t that be stick a spork in it.
?
I don’t have the spoons to handle your comment
You CAN adopt you know.
It’s okay, Ethan. You could get your holiday spirit to coagulate in them!
Or, you know, talking to your Ex girlfriend’s door like you are currently ^^
Ethan you…you know adoption is a thing right? Or surrogacy?
As much as I’d like to make a kid Adoption seems like the best thing. I mean we’ve already got SO MANY humans. I don’t really need to make a new one.
Just another kid who’s going to grow up to be a asshole and pollute the planet, just like me and most of everyone else I know.
“Grow up?” I’ve heard good things about veal.
Thank you, Mr. Swift…
Damn that’s cynical Newlend. I like to believe if you raise your kids to not be an asshole they’ll, y’know, not be an asshole.
I concur. And some people don’t even want the kids they have – why not take one off their hands?
Scientists are working on a way to make a “male egg,” too. You still need a surrogate-or an artificial womb, if we’re talking future tech- but hey, it’s possible, just not possible to do on accident. Yay gay dudes I guess!
The shit you can find grant money for…
Perfect gravitar, but science doesn’t have to be practical to be great.
See: SPACE
I always liked how in Life the Universe and Everything, Arthur just decides to go mad. Like, it’s part of the plan.
“Arthur felt happy. He was terribly pleased that the day was for once working out so much according to plan. Only twenty minutes ago he had decided he would go mad, and now here he was already chasing a Chesterfield sofa across the fields of prehistoric Earth.”
Yeah… I wish it worked that well when I decide to go mad. Something keeps me off the edge…
Sanity can be… boring.
I hear in the other universe there was a guy who went insane and then just sort of stopped being insane, so there’s that.
Joe: I AM WORKING ON THAT TECHNOLOGY
FOR SCISSORING REASONS
I don’t think this Joe’s quite there yet. Or possibly ever.
Eh, given enough motivation, joe will do it. Especially if it involves possible lesbian or threesome action.
Point taken.
Joe will give Ethan a prototype for his intelligent car to raise, with a brain pattern based on his childhood best friend Carla.
Daisy: I will happily act as your test subject! Now all you have to do is find another sexy lesbian who would be interested in “working” with me.
Hey, if that’s what it takes for Daisy and Becky to meet…
To quote Walkyverse Robin: “Oh my god they’re TOTALLY going to bang.”
Hey dude, you can totes get married and adopt now. And the world may continue spinning on its axis, Jen Aside had first post.
As for all the adoption talk, erm, well, what state are you in? A lot of places do NOT make that easy on LGBT folks.
That is a fair point. I hadn’t thought of that.
Ethan’s 18. By the time he should be considering adopting, the US will have joined the 21st century.
I hope so, for the sake of kids who could really use the homes. But I’m not gonna count on it.
On marriage. The rest will probably come later.
Uh, didn’t the entire world enter the 21st Century on January 1st, 2000, or 2001 depending on your definition of the millenium?
tell America that =p
SIGHHHHHHH
I’ve met many people who still need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the TWENTIETH century, never mind the twenty-first.
I don’t blame them; the twentieth century was our bloodied century to date.
19th wasn’t too good either. Lots of colonial oppression, quite a few wars, lots of disease and poverty.
And the 21st century isn’t looking too good so far.
Can we try skipping to the 22nd century? Surely we’ll have sorted ourselves out by then?
“Welcome to the twentieth century”
Given the timeflow ratio, by the time Ethan is ready to adopt, it’ll be the 23rd century America needs to join.
Which America? By the time Ethan is ready to adopt, polarization will have torn it apart.
I stand with those who support horizontal polarization. Those vertical polarization people are going to be the destruction of this great country! And never mind those kooks who vote for circular polarization…
I want all of them, we will have 8 great countries.
We will fight viciously over every arm of octopus.
I like my distopias food based.
Gay people can adopt in Indiana. But I doubt Ethan’s even actually looked up his future options since he apparently wants kids. He seems to have decided (or just been raised) to think being gay automatically equals no kids for him.
I think the kids are purely hypothetical. Hypothetical spoons.
Adoption is also a fine choice, Ethan.
Or growing a man on the back of a woman’s neck! There’s this one movie, where a lady grows an adult Native American man on the back of her neck, and Joseph Cotten (correction: Tony Curtis) is there for some reason. I haven’t gotten around to watching it, but I want to.
Anyhow, that seems like a fine choice to me, as long as the woman is into it (and the Native American man as well).
That was “The Manitou”. Oh, and technically that wasn’t a man she birthed out of her neck, but a malevolent supernatural thingy.
Yes, I just had to raise my hand and brag to everyone that I knew that, and yes, I do find that disturbing.
Not only does Ethan seem unaware that gay people can still have kids he also seems to have forgotten that pretending to date Joyce didn’t magically make him no longer gay. You’re not gay again Ethan. You’re gay STILL.
I’m starting to feel Ethan wasn’t trying to closet himself as flat-out be heterosexual.
Which is so much worse.
…didn’t he say as much on more than one occasion?
My take on the subject had been Ethan was going to pretend to be heterosexual just so he didn’t have to deal with any hassles from other people. Not BE heterosexual as if it was a lifestyle choice.
“No, Iceman’s mother, you can’t not be a mutant!”
Joyce’s idea that he could simply resist gay temptations and live as a de facto heterosexual did seem to appeal to him.
His dad had also tossed out the idea that most straight men don’t really like sexing up women. They just suck it up because it’s the proper heterosexual thing to do.
It sounds like he was trying to become “heterosexual”, but only under a pretty loose definition.
Yeah, Ethan’s dad could have been either ace or gay and in denial.
The thought occurs, gay people are about 10% of the population, and it seems to be genetic but recessive (YOU could be a carrier!). So the question of how likely the use of a gay man’s sperm to fertilize a lesbian’s egg would be to produce and LGB kid? My back of the envelope scribbles suggest that it could be anywhere from maybe as low as 10% to maybe as high as 80% depending on if it was the same group of genes that needed to be active for males and females. If males and females need different combinations of genes to be homosexual then you would have the same likelihood of having a gay/lez baby as any other pairing, if there are shared genes then the odds are slightly higher, and if both sets of genes are the same between male and female homosexuals then we start getting into the reverse odds for having a straight kid. So inseminating Becky from Ethan could be a crapshoot that might produce a straight kid or might produce “something” else. Maybe a bi?
I like thinking about theoretical genetics…
Even in SF, it isn’t ten percent. Nowhere near.
And yes, theactualnumberdoesnotmatterbecauseeveryoneispeopleasgoodasanyoneelse, but wrong numbers and wishful thinking don’t help.
[citation needed]
Because my sources say San Francisco’s population is in fact 15% GLB, and the metro area is ~8% which is definitely somewhere near 10.
Those numbers aren’t trans-inclusive, so the total GLBT population is even higher.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-Same-Sex-Couples-GLB-Pop-ACS-Oct-2006.pdf
“Because my sources say San Francisco’s population is in fact 15% GLB, and the metro area is ~8% which is definitely somewhere near 10.”
That same source says 5.2% for all of California. Adding up the adult numbers in Appendix 1, I get less than 4% being LGB. WP says “According to the Williams Institute review conducted in April 2011, approximately 3.8 % of American adults identify themselves being in the LGBT community; wherein, (1.7%) identify as lesbian or gay, (1.8%) bisexual, and (0.3%) transgender, which corresponds to approximately 9 million adult[1] Americans as of the 2010 Census.[2] However, a measurable higher percentage acknowledge having same-sex attraction, or experience, without identifying as LGBT.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States also reports other studies, which vary, but are generally well under 10%.
It should be noted that surveys like this are worthless for determining the actual level of same-sex attraction amongst the population, due to the social ramifications and connotations of being admittedly homosexual.
Ehhhh… that’s a really dark path you’re going down. People generally don’t like being told their identity is due to ‘genetic but recessive’ genes or that ‘YOU could be a carrier for the gay gene!’. The thing is sexuality is a very complex and fluid thing that has both nature and nurture components.
And that’s not even considering bisexuals. Especially considering people can slide back and forth along the Kinsey scale throughout their lives.
Mike can make anything worse…
Eh, fuck embedded links.
http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=86
You may not have calculated for birth order.
For some reason, the more older brothers you have, the more likely it is that you will be gay. Willis mentioned it in a Shortpacked! strip in reference to that one fundie couple on TV who have had like twenty kids (I became aware of them at a “14 Kids and Pregnant Again!” TV show; they’ve had some more since then (“We’re just going to keep having as many babies as the good lord blesses us with!” Yes, but you can’t afford the ones you do have. Hey, if you aren’t into birth control, have you tried abstinence? I hear that’s a thing)). “That mum is just a big ol’ gay baby-making machine!” or words to that effect (I am too lazy to go look now).
Anyways, there seems to be factors beyond just the purely genetic, is what I’m saying.
That’s the Duggars, whose show is currently 19 Kids and Counting. Yeah, the Duggars may be in for a very, to them, uncomfortable surprise when their youngest kids are old enough to have a preference. Of course it’s likely one or more of the kids will become a non-believer or shift their Christianity to a less conservative form, which likely would also make them unhappy.
I suspect that if they exist in the DoA universe Joyce would probably think the Duggars are a bit over the top.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Kids_and_Counting
Surely it wouldn’t matter! They have reserves!
Homosexuality may be recessive, but also respond to population pressures. In environments with low population pressure, the gene simply isn’t expressed, to encourage reproduction. In environments with high population pressure, the gene would be triggered, helping to reduce births.
I don’t think genetics works like that. Genes can’t think.
Jerden: The field of epigenetics would beg to differ.
A quick overview: “Epigenes” are basically proteins or other markers that attach themselves to certain genes in the presence of certain environmental factors, turning them on or off (but usually off).
What Deanatay is saying could be translated thus: If a large amount of human pheromones, especially those similar to your own, are present in the environment, the “gay genes” would be activated or the “straight genes” would be deactivated; if not, the reverse would happen.
Of course, all this crazy stuff would only happen in the early stages of development, and it doesn’t explain bisexuals. Also, I’m not a professional and am probably blowing smoke up my butt.
Jerden, it may be more than the genes though. For example you may need certain chemical triggers to make them release the proper hormones even if you have the right genetics. We don’t realise it but we’re all giving off and responding to different pheromones and other things all the time. Our bodies react to these things without our conscious knowledge.
The mechanism isn’t, abstractly speaking, implausible. I find the evolutionary logic pretty dubious. If ‘you’ (your genes) ‘want’ (have been selected for) some of your children to help your other children raise grandchildren, you have asexuals, not homosexuals. You also do it more reliably than we see in the occurrence of homosexuality. There’s no mechanism for evolving low birth rates “for the good of the species”; if ‘you’ ‘think’ resources are getting tight for your family it’d make more sense to not have kids at all, not to have homosexual ones. E.g. stressed rabbit mothers re-absorbing their fetuses.
What’s the evolutionary logic of intersex or transgenderism? I don’t think there is one, it just happens. Likewise for homosexuality.
I’m not claiming that I know any of this, I’m just theorizing.
Why select for homosexuality rather than asexuality for population control? Perhaps asexuality causes an evolutionarily disadvantageous decrease in sex drive? If you need a mechanism to decrease fertility temporarily while leaving the organism evolutionarily viable, homosexuality would allow the organism to still have a strong sex drive, but temporarily redirect it to an infertile pairing to reduce population growth. A gene for asexuality may decrease the sex drive of the organism, even in a heterozygous recessive, leading to a genetic disadvantage.
LGBT people may well be 5% or less, and half of that is likely B, not LG. We have no good idea of what the genetics of homosexuality or bisexuality are. We don’t even know that it *is* genetic; it could simply the result of a complex developmental process sometimes giving non-standard results. Yeah, there was a study in November suggesting an X-chromosome link for male homosexuality, but it’s far from conclusive, nor accepted widely by other researchers.
Though unlike being gay, ‘not being a mutant’ was in fact a legitimate option starting in the next movie.
It wasn’t though since the ‘cure’ was just a repression effect and eventually wore off. They never stopped being mutants they just got rid of the mutations and it was shown to be temporary by the end, making the whole thing pointless.
That seems to fit with the overall very depressing world view Ethan seems to have about his sexuality. I guess that’s not completely his fault though. It’s society’s and his terrible mother’s.
One of the most terrifying things about humanity is that you can imprison someone within their own mind. It’s how we socialize people, but there are some pretty terrible mental states you can get trapped in. Such as Ethan’s.
The scary thing I also just realized? Ethan would have been happy to marry Joyce from this panel.
How do you think homosexuals survived before the gay rights movement got going?
By being awesome bachelors and getting laid like ninjas in the shadows.
Except those who couldn’t escape the social pressures, and are driven into a marriage. Lesbians, for instance.
In stead of knitting parties and having tea they had secret scissoring get togethers.
You know what they say: You are who you repeatedly pretend to be.
What? Are you saying I’m suddenly not a doctor?
You never stopped being gay to begin with Ethan. And you’re gay, not sterile, there’s nothing stopping you from jizzing in a cup and knocking a friend up with it.
Now do what you likely never let yourself do before and go look at some dudes and enjoy the fuck out of it. The more you do it the more you’ll feel better.
And then meet some dudes and start enjoying the fuck.
Sorry, I had to at least go for the mirroring gag.
I’d recommend he try NOT to gag, if it cones to that.
But it’s rude to spit too, so you’d better swallow that load LIKE A MAN, Ethan
Yeah, that is a lame story. Too bad you couldn’t have come out on your own.
Oh wait!
Ok, that was harsh, but seriously Ethan, this is at least partly on you.
Hear, hear. Really, this could have ended so much worse for both of them. Be grateful to have a second chance of not fucking it up, Ethan (either your coming out or your staying in the closet, whichever you chose).
I wonder why he actually left the room. I kinda doubt Becky could toss him out the door give their relative sizes.
Didn’t you know? That haircut is like a reverse Samson type deal.
Not in THIS universe, anyway. Or the other one, I guess.
I am perfectly willing to believe that Becky can do anything she wants.
Except make her father not be an asshat apparently. Assuming of course some of the recent speculation isn’t true, and Becky’s recounting of what happened is in fact accurate.
Anything she wants, as long as it involves making other people not want to be around her.
Sarah wants her out, Billie gave her cash to leave her alone, Walky, Dorothy and Ethan have all left after she was rude to them.
He probably had enough of his fake boyfriend/girlfriend relationship and figures it’s best to leave before he really is driven crazy.
Ethan seems to have mixed up which of the dumpings was more real than the other.
Ethan has a number of things mixed up.
Word.
It was the one where Joyce was on the toilet.
Sorry, that was just too easy.
Dumping of Age
I did not giggle at that. I just thought of something unrelated but funny, is all.
The second one was a dumping by a fellow gay person! That gives it more weight to him!
I may or may not be pulling this out of my ass.
…Maybe Ethan shouldn’t try to take up writing after all, if this is the best story he can come up with.
Well, depends on what kind of writing he’s going for. He could try for comedy, I mean I giggled at his little monologue here. And yes, I know he went into stand-up comedy in the walkyverse, but there are other outlets, such as being a writer for a TV show or a podcast or whatever. Or blogging. Idk. Writers gonna write.
He could go for a super meta narrative, that starts off like “How I Met Your Mother,” but then it turns out he’s not telling the story to his kids, but a pair of spoons.
“Dr Dudelove, Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tell My Life Story To Flatware”
bongoing and complaining
*bongoing…Fuck this smart phone and its autocorrect
There’s a word filter, your smart phone was fine.
Wait really, Since when ?
Since Roz blew a gasket, and half the commenters started calling her a bongo. Willis got tired of the rather sexist term, and replaced it with bongo.
He should have filtered all the curse words, no need to give bongo special treatment.
You know if you put it in quotes “bongo” will post as typed, or at least it used to if it comes out “bongo”.
Actually, the one time I’ve seen it avoided, someone cheated and placed an invisible character in the word. Quotes alone won’t do it.
Except that one is specifically for hurting women’s feelings; that actually does deserve special treatment.
Also that’s hilarious. I will now test this feature by interspering the original word with its replacement; to wit:
Bongo bongo bongo bongo bongo bongoy bongoy bongo
3,4,67; all changed. Perfection.
But it’s not the only word specifically for that, and there are worse ones.
It’s also for hurting dudes’ feelings, and in a very specific way both times.
Think of a woman who that title would fit: stubborn, short-tempered, selfish. These negative traits are generally more commonly associated with men.
Think of a man who that title would fit: wishy-washy, wimpy, whiny. These negative traits are generally more commonly associated with women.
The word isn’t just bad against women. It’s punishing people for straying from gender roles when you could just call out the negative behaviors in and of themselves without resorting to that particular word.
Those traits are only more associated with women because of mysogyny, though, so the word is slanderous of women every way you come at it.
And “bongo” is an awesome replacement, because its differing vowel placement and syllables make it almost unrecognizable as the word it’s replacing, unlike most censoring which assumes that you’re afraid of the letters but not the intent.
Misogyny hurts men too. It’s kind of screwed up that the “muscular jock who cares for little other than having sex with as many women as possible” is considered the manliest man and the most respected despite contributing far less to society than, say, a wishy-washy scholar like Nikola Tesla. And that’s seriously insulting to men in general if you stop to think about it. But it’s that muscular jock that most closely fits the profile for “man” the b-word on anyone. “She’s acting kinda like the stupid asshole that we all wish we were!” And when you use the b-word on a man, it’s “why isn’t he acting like the stupid asshole we all wish we were?” You need not look farther than the first comment in this particular thread: accusing Ethan of that behavior because he is thinking about his emotional problems and the consequences thereof, rather than being the stupid asshole.
The b-word is condensed regressiveness for both genders. Yes, regressiveness absolutely hurts women more than men, but that isn’t to say men aren’t still very damaged by it when it happens.
Of course, ‘bongo’ is kinda a racist term in some circles, if slightly obscure.
I know, right? The correct term is “tom-toms”.
I was rather surprised some years ago when I learned that Bongo is in fact a legitimate African name. The late Omar Bongo Ondimba(born Albert-Bernard Bongo) was President of Gabon from 1967 until his death in 2009. His son Ali was elected as his replacement.
It’s also a Sudanese ethnic group.
I was more referring to the fact that ‘Bongoland’ (or Bongo Bongo Land) is derogatory slang for Africa itself. Fairly old and obscure, but has seen recent use:
http://www.blackunity.org.uk/what-we-do/open-letter-to-birmingham-mail/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bongo_Bongo_Land
I was about to say that we’ll likely never see that here, but then I remembered a counterexample. Something about the “bongoiest bongo in bongoland”. Still, it’s really not worth worrying about the unintentional use of obscure slurs.
More to the point, I get the sense that Willis has a policy of introducing a filter once things get too unpleasant here. If we started labeling Roz, Becky, or some other girl as a ‘conga’ instead of a ‘bongo’, I bet we’d get a new filter added.
I see you like safe bets.
I like winning bets.
I kinda want us to do that just to see what he swaps it with.
Since loads of commenters had reason to call Roz a bongo over her attack on Joyce, evidently. I missed it too.
I don’t think there was an announcement – Willis just introduced the filter, then later that day acknowledged the existence of said filter in the comments, along with an explanation why.
Got news for ye, newllend; it’s not your hellbox. (I can understand the confusion, though; it is annoying when they do that.)
Ethan, your only solution is to go bang Jacob.
Or if Jacob is all-straight.
Dan.
Hell, I’m sure Mike will be up for it if you promise you’ll hate yourself for it.
Mike is ravishing Danny right now, Ethan will never get his chance because eh was busy being stupid.
CANNOT. UNIMAGINE. You monster.
I. WANT. THIS. SLIPSHINE. TO. Not be on slipshine but be free on this very website so I can read it.
OH GOD ITS IN MY HEAD NOW
*rubs hands together* Yes, good, good.
Huh. Actually plausible, given what Walkyverse-Mike got up to in Shortpacked.
thank you
damn you
This comic is so funny that I just want every comic to be Ethan talking to himself now.
Dumbing of Age Minus Everyone Else But Ethan.
Needs more Dina.
She’s always there, you just don’t see her.
Not good enough.
Dina is behind every door Ethan talks to himself in front of.
Dina would be busy doing Where’s Dina? “Oh, there she is, eating Cocoa Puffs on the streets of Paris!”
…Ethan why are you monologue-ing to yourself?
HE IS THE NIGHT.
Well, Danny DID say he looks like the lovechild of Jake Gyllenhaal and Nightwing…
But he hasn’t said he’s Batman. He can’t be Batman if he doesn’t say he is.
batman is his muse…..
He’s practicing his comedy act!
Joyce and Becky can hear him through the door and are laughing.
Ryan must have placed a curse on Joyce that gradually turns everyone with a sexual connection to her into villains. Ethan is monologuing, Becky is being a jerkface, EVERYTHING FITS!
…Where the hell did this white cat come from? And why am I stroking it all of the sudden?
That’s weird, you shouldn’t be affected, unless…
Oh. Well then.
It’s the first step toward his spoon-filled future.
Mr. Exposition cannot be silenced.
Face it Ethan, you were just too much man for her. You are the opposite of Mako.
So Ethan is basically thinking he’d end up what I think Ted really ended up as at the end of How I met Your Mother?
Rum craisin: Like rum raisin, but with extra rum.
I definitely just read that as cum raisin. Which…. I’m not sure tastes as good. Tbh.
How Freudian of you. It sounds like a 50 Shades of Grey dessert.
Depends on whether you prefer the taste of rum or cum.
Nope, made with dried cranberries.
Aren’t those cranbaisins? Archer lies to me again!
I forgot about Craisins! Those were good. I should prolly buy some now.
Actually, a ‘craisin’ is a dried cranberry, i thought. So, you could make a rum craisin ice cream…
Oh yes, talking to non-existent children would be crazy, not like having a lengthy conversation with no one in a hall which is totally sane.
Yes, Ethan shouldn’t do monologuing unless he’s climbed on a roof looking down.
Preferably on a Gargoyle.
It’s bad enough he broke Amber’s heart, now you want him to steal Amazi-Girl’s act?
HE IS…THE TRANSFORMERS FAN!
You’re just making it worse.
Now he’s stealing Willis’ job!
WOOT!! Yeah, we rule… 😛
Perhaps Ethan was expecting Mike to show up in the last panel and make one of his usual comments.
Exactly. That is a totally normal conversation going on.
Ethan gets one vote for being normal from the person who wears a bag over their head and refers to themselves as ‘Tacos’.
Not that I’m one to judge; on Disqus, I’m a watermelon wearing headphones.
Clearly Ethan needs to delve into his Jewish heritage and fashion a facsimile of life from Clay and animate it with the power of the word! The Golem shall live again!
Or you know. Adopt.
Or both; siblings for the win! Though twins are substantially more work for the parents to manage, I imagine.
I always wanted a little sister, but one wrought of living clay? That would’ve been pretty rad.
I can tell you’re fired up about this idea, but I wheely think it’s half-baked …
I think I saw something like this somewhere before, so they’re not just cooking it up…
Nothri, I like the way you think.
“Most man-on-man.” Aww, leaving in the possibility for tboy sexies.
At least, that’s how I choose to read it.
That’s how I read it, too! It makes me happy.
I feel like it’s not always super in character for some of the DoA folks who are pretty new to these concepts/feelings (like Ethan and Danny), but I read it as an intentional inclusive gesture on Willis’ part, so it’s still good by me.
To make it more in character, I like to imagine that there’s a solidly established, trans-focused student group on campus that’s put up some good informational posters and/or maybe did a brief talk at the frosh orientation events, so that the cast who weren’t previously familiar with such stuff aren’t perfect at it (it’s very possible to ignore posters or orientation lectures) but are starting to get a rough sense of things over time.
… well he has met Jocylene …
Jocylene is MTF not FTM though so
Yeah but that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t have made him aware of the existence of FtMs just by extrapolation of the concept.
You’d be surprised. Transwomen are fairly well known about, but transmen face a lot more erasure and the statement “those exist?” comes up depressingly often.
That’s likely because most people won’t actually count you as the gender you want to be until you can finish the transition (and maybe not even then) so while making a penis into a vagina is doable I’m not use the other way really is yet. So as far as they’re concered they’re still just women. It’s wrong, of course.
I could foresee issues with getting the valving right to allow for erections when aroused. At least there are strap-ons.
Scientists are working on growing organs. I’m sure they’ll get around to growing penises eventually… hopefully not on the back of a mouse a la South Park.
Take ’em from motorcycle riders without helmets (aka organ donors)? I think the biggest problem would be proper installation, so to speak – aside from the usual rejection, of course. Unlike other organs, you’re dealing with a body that wasn’t properly configured to utilize the organ in question.
That’s why I went with growing it from scratch. Take some cells from the person who’s going to receive it. Culture them properly in an appropriate scaffold with the right chemical signals to tell the cells to become parts of a dick. Since it’s the patient’s own cells, there won’t be any rejection issue.
He does live in the age of the Internet. Not hard to believe he mighta looked stuff up after Jocelyne.
I wonder if Ethan is as ignorant about homosexuality as Becky.
The real Question is who’s MORE ignorant ?
Ignorant, sure. But THAT ignorant? I sincerely doubt it.
Well they’re both scared young gay people so they both are probably fairly equal.
Hopefully Ethan will snap out of this funk and he’ll realize that there’s nothing wrong with his sexuality. Maybe go talk to some of his friends. I’m sure they’ll support him.
Danny would.
From behind.
Carnally.
I’m not sure why, but I’m fairly certain that Danny would be a bottom.
No, you’re right. Danny would be a top who secretly wants to be a bottom, or at least likes power bottoms better.
dammit why am I Joe,
Because it makes the comment better.
It really does.
Only Joe knows Danny so well.
I guess Ethan did have something in common with Joyce.
They both entered the relationship to use it as a shield against their own mind.
Danny is a bottom with women, much less Ethan.
Well he was definitely the bottom in his little fantasy that we were privy to. By which I mean Ethan was literally on top of him.
But
There is no spoon
But there is Truth. And it’s out there.
*X-Files Theme plays*
Did you know there are lyrics? No, really. “The X-Files is a cool show/with music by Mark Snow.”
Which makes it all the more depressing. He’s not just hallucinating that a couple of spoons are his grandkids, he’s hallucinating the spoons themselves.
*BWWWRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMPH*
It seems Like Ethan is more upset about this break up because he hast to go back to being the single Gay nerd and not upset because he still wants to be with Joyce.
I think Ethan actually likes Joyce as a friend, which may surprise a lot of people, but she seems like a pleasant enough girlfriend. Very much in the Amber-vein but without the horrific childhood trauma.
No, that was replace with horrific adulthood trauma.
Ethan is less boyfriend and more amateur counselor, it seems.
lmao this strip cracks me up, just Ethan talking to himself in the hallway xD
I think everyone is being a little hard on Ethan, so I’m going to do my best here to defend him.
“He’s not Danny.”
That’s all I got.
For many, I believe that may be enough.
Ethan sank lower than Danny ages ago.
Also a fair point. The both of them make a Phew mistakes but for completely different reasons.
Fair point.
Why do you all hate Danny? He is a sweet kid.
Well, buddy, if you’re talking about your gayness out loud in public, even just to yourself, without Amber there to drag it out of you, that’s… a step.
But can you damn well quit holding girls responsible for outing you? Joyce breaking up with you doesn’t blow your closet up; she’s not gonna tell anyone else why she did it. That’s up to you, dude.
Ethan, you need to go to your room, pull up some Nightwing comics and get rid of the tension.
If you know what I mean!
I dunno if he’s that narcissistic.
Who would be Ethan’s male comic hero of choice then? Tough call.
I have no idea why, but I’m thinking Aquaman. The Flash might work too. Blue Beetle? Booster Gold?
We know he likes Batman, but I suspect that’d be icky – some things don’t mix well. Do we know if he likes Marvel comics at all?
Catman, obviously.
Oh, he knows what you mean. Although, given his taste in both comics and guys, he might be more into old-school Peter Parker. Like, with the flat-top hair and everything.
I defer to your greater knowledge of Ethan’s taste.
Ethan strikes me as the kind of guy who’d find Marvel comics cheating. He probably hasn’t even seen the MCU movies.
Maybe not the movies, but he and Danny had a snarky bonding moment over Ethan’s love of Jack Kirby. If he’s not into the Marvel stuff, maybe he’s all about the New Gods.
If Ethan doesn’t like Marvel Comics…I seriously question his taste in comic books. Then again…I seriously question a lot of what Ethan does.
I have long thought that Peter Parker makes more sence as a gay man in the closet. I mean, he is never sexual with MJ, not even flirty.
This might be my favorite strip in the history of this comic, because it, more than anything else, expresses the “wait, what the hell just happened?” feeling that was like 80% of undergrad for me.
I definitely read ‘what a great story’ in a Tommy Wiseau kinda voice, which made me read the entire thing in his voice, which made it even funnier. Idek.
It’s not true, it’s bullshit, I did not come out of the closet, I did naaaht! Oh hi Jacob.
It’d be cool if Mary overheard all of this…and then asked Ethan to be her boyfriend because she’s a lesbian.
By ‘cool’, you mean ‘another terrible idea’, yes?
Another Terrible Idea is my [insert crappy musician here]* cover band name.
*Look, I’m bad at music references, OK?
I’m sure the nice people at Questionable Content can fix that.
Already reading it. Hasn’t helped. My eyes just kind of glaze over whenever the indie rock jokes get too dense.
You could always go with the suggestion of using ‘dot tumblr dot com’ instead of ‘is my band name’. AnotherTerribleIdea.tumblr.com sums up like 98% of all Tumblr pages.
Relevant XKCD:
http://xkcd.com/1025/
You know, I kind of want to see Mary revealed to be gay. It’d be interesting to explore the opposite of what Becky is going through: Instead of rejecting the terrible aspects that try to condemn her, what if Mary has accepted them and acts the way she does towards Billie and Ruth because she “defeated” her own sexuality.
I still subscribe to the headcanon that Mary is covering up scars using those wristbands.
Yeah, I’m actually looking forward to seeing what Mary is hiding. She certainly was hiding something in the last universe.
There’s no way those wristbands aren’t significant. Every single time we’ve seen Mary she has them on unless she’s wearing a long sleeve shirt that covers her wrists. She wears them in her pajamas or when she’s otherwise unclothed for God’s sake. It’s not like Willis hasn’t had an article of clothing act as a major plot point for a certain other character.
You know, we never did get an explanation as to why she was in her room, wearing nothing but wristbands and panties, in the middle of the day, with the door unlocked.
Oh Ethan. Dear sweet Ethan. Even talking to a couple of spoons is better than talking out loud to empty air outside an aggressively pinkly sparkling door.
I assume there are sparkles, anyway. Joyce did the decorating.
Ethan, we get it. Break-ups are hard, and the world can seem dark and terrible. What you need is a trip to the comic book store. Come on. Phone a friend. Things will look better in a few days — a year in reader-time, but still.
Ethan’s problem is clearly he’s got a vulnerability to mind-control as he does what everyone else says to do as if they had the power of the Purple Man. It’s his superpower. He’s like the Anti-Green Lantern for willpower.
Ethan is a Yellow Lantern? Everything makes sense now!
Becky has a major problem. She has no boundries and needs some, now.
Ethan has no need to listen to her crap.
A good friend of mine carried a child for her gay best friend and his husband. She lived in a state allowing gays to adopt, while they did not. All worked out well for them.
There are always ways to be a father: Ethan has to start thinking out of the box.
Ethan breaking up with Joyce is better this way. If they made it to the altar, he’d just have to make a deal with Mephisto to remove it or get the universe rebooted.
So you mean make a deal with Willis ?
You just had to reference “One More Day” *cringes in agony*
My main issue here isn’t that Ethan is denying that gay men can form families through adoption or surrogacy or that he’s still talking about being gay like such a huge, unwanted burden but that he took Becky’s words to heart. Like, your relationship with Joyce is *your* relationship with Joyce and some random comment by Joyce’s other friend (even if “best friend”) shouldn’t just make you decide to leave.
Except that Joyce had already dumped his ass.
I think the fact that he apparently took Becky breaking up with him more seriously than JOYCE breaking up with him is more of an issue here. Joyce didn’t ‘basically’ break up with him. She broke up with him.
Yeah, but she broke up with him because she doesn’t want to “fix” him anymore, that doesn’t mean they can’t be friends anymore.
No, but since their relationship was so similar to a normal friendship anyway they need to change their behavior somehow to mark – for themselves if nothing else – that things have changed.
He could always get some one to carry his child
Joyce could be artificially inseminated, therefore having a virgin birth to Ethan’s child.
For when his arms get tired?
Like a Sherpa!
Next up in the news:
“My baby was stolen by Sherpas.”
Well, remember that this is Ethan we’re talking about.
“My gaybies were stolen by Sherpas! Story at 11.”
Ethan’s scenario in the last panel is how I thought “How I Met Your Mother” was going to end.
Still would have been a better ending then what they went with.
The DVD Alternate Ending is actually perfect. Can’t believe they chose the other one over that….
I really hope by the time our grandkids are around, “coming out” won’t be a thing any more. Everyone (who’s gay) will just be “Oh, I’m gay.” then the other person’s all “That’s cool. Did you catch the hoverboard vert regionals last night? It was so bomb.” (also, “bomb” as a adjective will come back)
Changing laws does not simply erase discrimination. The latter will take far longer, I’m afraid.
I mean…it’s essentially like that in much of europe. England for sure has a very disinterested attitude about sexuality. There are even cute old lesbian couples who make my heart all fuzzy and warm. No one cares.
Alas if only that were true.
I live in the UK. It’s a heck of a lot better now than it used to be, but no, there’s still plenty of prejudice to go around at street level. It’s getting a lot better, but there is and was a whole lot of better to get.
We still had near-riots over the idea of gay marriage, even here, ya know. And that was just last year. It IS legal now, at least.
Generally it takes about 30-60 years before the general opinion changes because of a new legislation, depending on how long the bigots who opposed the law stay alive and continue to influence their children/grandchildren. After that we might start seeing the rise of a generation of 18-25 year olds who have grown up alongside homosexuals or people with homosexual parents and know from observing them that there’s nothing wrong with either.
One example would be some high schools in southern states that opposed the law to make segregation illegal. The grandparents and parents of the white students were white supremacists, but the majority of the current generation there are not.
Thomas Kuhn’s work on the structure of scientific revolutions applies here. Even after a new consensus is reached, you still have to wait for a generation for the dead enders to die off. May even take two generations with cultural things. And even then, the dead enders will persist. Personally, I like living in the future on things like that.
May I attract your attention to this?
Curses.
http://www.xkcd.com/1431/
I hate links some times.
Whoa whoa whoa, slow down! Fundamental change like that is probably going to take upwards of 150 years! You can’t just make “bomb” a slang word again *that* quickly, the social order can’t bear the strain!
So you’re saying they’ll bomb the attempt?
It’s also probably going to be hindered by the whole terrorism paranoia we got here in the West right now.
Try using that slang in an airport and see how fast they can cavity-search anal-probe you.
The “most” in the last panel is perfect.
I glossed right over that. A man was pregnant in Junior, though, which was obviously based on real events, just like all of Arnold Swarzenegger’s other movies, so I guess the probability is non-zero…
Well, and there are trans men, yes? So “most” in this case is accurate.
I assumed it was used to provide emphasis, like ‘well, most days the sun doesn’t crash into the earth, so I guess I’m going to have to wake up in the morning single.’
You mean transgender women. (Whether you call them trans man or trans woman is dependent on which they identify as, not their biological sex or assigned gender.)
Wait no my brain shorted out ignore that first sentence. (The second is still how things work generally.)
Wait are MTW Trans people capable of conceiving children?
A person you gained ladyparts via surgery is not. But a man who started with ladyparts may still have a working uterus and overies.
I think Ethan needs a hug. I want to give him a hug. ;-;
Ethan is still trapped in that destructive mindset, I see. When will he finally break out of that mental prison, lovingly made by Mommy?
Just another brick in the wall…
For some reason, this made me think of Mrs Siegal singing “Mother Knows Best”
Well she does want to keep her son in the closet/tower
I hate to say it but he needs to get some action. Right now his gayness is stuck in a conceptual level, he doesn’t really get how much more he’ll enjoy anything with a man more than he does with a woman.
I guess Ethan did have something in common with Joyce.
They both entered the relationship to use it as a shield against their own mind.
And it worked about as well for both of them… Good riddance it’s over. They both deserve better.
I was wondering who to pick as DoA character for this poll. This just won it for Ethan.
Well, talking to yourself certainly isn’t proving your sanity.
Why not? Is it better to keep everything bottled up until he really does have a psychotic break? Talking to yourself is fine. It’s when you’re carrying on a vocal conversation with the voices in your head that no one else can hear while pausing while they speak their part in it that really makes people wonder. (Yes I’m speaking from experience, as a witness to this behavior in someone else over a period of several years.)
I don’t think that’s how psychotic breaks happen. As far as I understand, a normal person has a sudden and unexpected break from reality, and thus becomes schizophrenic. Among the sadder illnesses out there, if you ask me – you can still remember a time when you were normal and in touch with reality, but you will never have that again.
Ethan, Ethan, you don’t need to wait for the psychotic break to get started on your lifegoals.
Ethan is the Everyman when talking to himself it appears. Who doesn’t worry about their possible future talking to spoons as if they are the offspring of their offspring? Who doesn’t have to, at least once, contemplate where to go from here now that your girlfriend’s best friend has fired you from your boyfriend job? Ethan, here, in this strip, is all of us.
And you know it’s true, because a scientist said it.
Science!
A lab coat bestows authority.
http://xkcd.com/699/
Sorry, Ethan, but you don’t get to choose your sexuality. Having a ‘girlfriend’ isn’t going to suddenly turn you straight, any more than neo-fascist ‘Christian’ cure-camps are.
Unlike a lot of people commenting here, I don’t have a problem with Ethan listening to Becky. He needs to have it pointed out to him, however, that if girlfriend’s best friend says “Take a hike,” and you say “OK,” rather than “Screw you, I’m fighting for this relationship,” then that’s probably a good indicator that girlfriend was onto something when she told you ‘goodbye’ a few strips ago.
I agree. Becky didn’t know the facts, but she hit the right nerve. The (scam of) a relationship between Joyce and Ethan was OVER, the fact that his first act after the breakup was to follow her home doesn’t change that. Ethan needed to realize that.
To be fair, he less “follow[ed] her home” and more “escorted her home while she was in the middle of a panic attack.”
Not like he was running, unwanted, after her, calling, “Nooo! Joyce! You were going to be Mrs Siegal!”
You are right, he did and it was awesome and I did make it sound less benevolent than that. But from what he says here I don’t think it hit home that Joyce had broken up with him until now.
I think it’s wrong to tell people what they should be, no matter who they are attracted to.
I can be a magic pony if I want to be.
Even if I’m attracted to rainbows.
..no, wait, those two things should be fine together.
I have no reason to believe that you are not a magic pony attracted to rainbows. In fact – HEADCANON
I disbelieve on the grounds that I suspect you are not a magic pony but are in fact two leprechauns in a pony costume
But what If they identify as a magic pony?
Wouldn’t each leprechaun in the costume have to identify as half of a magic pony to adhere to Conservation of Equines?
Ethan should be less worried about talking to spoons in his future, compared to some of the comments here.
Maybe they’ll identify as spoons, but be HAABs (Human Assigned At Birth). I mean, sure, society has quite a way to go before the broader public accept transspoons people, but with a little luck, by the time Ethan’s old enough for grandkids, society will have progressed at least that far.
Be pretty hypocritical of us to accept spooning but not transspoons.
ethan no. becky doesnt own joyce’s life, that doesnt count.
though yeah joyce did still dump you so i mean
We really need Danny to be on his way to tutor Sal right about now.
Or perhaps someone could leave a trail of transformers from Joyce’s room to Danny’s room…
So, clearly the other comments have missed this all-important option:
Hey Ethan, you know you could adopt, right?
also, there’s this really useful trick you can use to remove permanent markers from a whiteboard…
Let’s not go there…
I don’t follow. Do I want to know what StClair was getting at?
Everclear!
…
Maybe rubbing alcohol instead?
It was that running gag back in the dingdong-bandit chapter when everyone and their avatar suggested different methods to remove permanent marker from whiteboards. It ended up being tiresome and then either more tiresome or hilarious, depending on who you ask.
I see. Why not just cover the whiteboard with more permanent marker and turn it into a blackboard?
*gets pelted with shoes*
Referencing the comments here. 😉
Holy crap, that’s right! Good thing you mentioned it…
This was literally the subject of like the first half dozen comments.
I think you missed the sarcasm. Or I missed your sarcasm.
Sarcasm is hard 🙁
He could still talk Joyce out of it, since Joyce was breaking up with him for his own good, so all he’d have to do is convince her that what’s good for him is to keep on pretending. Becky fired him because she judged him inadequate, which is harder to talk your way out of (or would be if Becky had any authority to fire him).
Since this storyline is called “Three’s a Crowd”, I keep noticing three-person problems all over the place. Three people in Joyce and Sarah’s room. Ethan-Joyce-Becky. Amber-Danny-Ethan. Dorothy-Joyce-Becky. Maybe Walky and Dorothy run into mopey Sal when they go out for a drink – Walky-Dorothy-Sal. Then there was Sal-Marcie-Malaya. Billie paying Becky off so she could be alone with Ruth, because three’s a crowd. Amazigirl-Amber-Danny.
That were the reasons Joyce gave him, but it was clear that Joyce suffered a lot of frustration living that lie. I think Joyce is much better off without fake boyfriend.
Willis really likes his title to have double meanings, doesn’t he? Well spotted all those triplets.
Jealousy seems to be a recurring theme, yes.
I wouldn’t say jealousy. There are other kinds of three-person problems. Of the ones I listed, only Becky-Joyce-Dorothy and Malaya-Marcie-Sal involve jealousy at this point. Maybe Ethan-Joyce-Becky, but since Becky’s outvoted by Joyce’s heterosexuality, it’s kind of a pointless jealousy.
Even his private monologues remind me of Danny.
Stay in the closet as long as you like, be as open or discrete as you like, but next time you want someone to be your beard, be sure they are OK with that role.
Joyce WAS okay with the role.
…Keyword “was.” She isn’t anymore, and Ethan couldn’t have predicted that.
(Beard relationships are still a lousy idea.)
Joyce THOUGHT she was…
Couldn’t Ethan have predicted it? The way she practically threw himself on him after a church-date didn’t scream “OK with a fake relationship” to me.
The smart thing would have been to get to know her better, spill the beans and slowly ease into a beard relationship (if that was what both wanted). The way Joyce escalated things to a kiss in two days made that impossible – which means that the smart thing would have been to ease OUT of it (about at the time when Amber screamed at him to do just that). He could also have seen Joyce’s sexual frustration as a sign that it was time to end the relationship. Instead he just let things be and left her to do the hard work.
But yeah, now we are quibbling about details. It was a bad relationship, both of them did stupid things and it’s a good thing it’s over. But if Ethan ever wants to try something similar again he needs to be much smarter about it or have the same or a worse fiasco explode on him again.
The biggest catalyst that sparked the breakup was today’s gender studies lecture, and Roz’s outburst within it. Joyce was happy to be complicit in the church’s “fix the gay people” mentality until today. No, Joyce wasn’t ever satisfied with Ethan’s chronic lack of intimacy from day one, but that’s a sign of Ethan’s subconscious discomfort in the relationship rather than Joyce’s.
Ethan could have potentially predicted a breakup (even if he would have to stop living in denial first). A breakup was nigh-inevitable. What I’m saying is that Ethan couldn’t have predicted that it’d happen because Joyce would no longer want to be his beard, as she was happy with that idea until today. Nobody could have guessed Becky would show up and lay the groundwork for Leslie and Roz to get Joyce to realize how shitty gay-erasure is.
Ectogenesis and artificial eggs/sperm are things *right now* (admittedly in the very early stages, but still)
Not ALL dude-on-dude!
#notallmansex
#notallXemnas
Ethan’s hypothetical offspring may yet be had… through SCIENCE!!!
http://www.newsweek.com/biological-babies-same-sex-parents-possibility-after-stem-cell-breakthrough-309453
Yeeeaaah, science, bongo!
Bang them science drums!
Well, having this discussion with himself out loud, I’d say he’s already halfway there. ^^ Time to buy some spoons.
Don’t be ridiculous, Ethan. Your kids are somebody’s Mini-Con partners.
Er, grandkids. His kids are the “somebody” in question. Like, his son is Hot Shot and his grandson is Jolt.
Minicons FTW! We rule! 😛
At least when he talks to himself, all the speech bubbles are the same color. If Amber talked to Amazi-Girl, it would involve different colored speech bubbles. So stay out of Deadpool territory Ethan.
This actually makes me a little sad. 🙁
My theory for how all this resolves is pretty simple. Polyamory. Ethan/Danny/Amber. Ethan and Danny clearly have the hots for each other, Danny and Amber very clearly love each other, and Amber and Ethan also still very much love each other (in a totally non-sexual way, of course).
This way, everyone’s happy. Ethan get’s a family that will most likely produce offspring, Amber gets to be with her two favorite people on earth, and Danny get’s to bang two people who are way WAAAY out of his league.
That hinges on any of them being cool with polyamory. Danny’s a serial monogamist.
Yes but Danny was also straight not a week ago comic-time. Alot can change in a semester.
Danny *thought* he was straight. Being bi doesn’t suddenly make you want to bang everyone. Let alone Danny, who’s fallen pretty hard for Amber.
It just occurred to me that I’m equating polyamary with promiscuity, and I’d like to apologize for that.
Ha! Read my comment below, great minds think alike.
I’m pretty sure it would take Danny some time not to do the same mistake.
I think Danny is the smallest problem in the equation. I really can’t see Amber and Ethan getting together in anything that is part of a romantic relationship anytime soon – too much hurt feelings for both of them – and I don’t think it would be healthy for them anyway. They need each other as friends, at this point I don’t think they should try to complicate that any more than it already is.
I think Amber needs to reconcile the two parts of her persona, among other things by not pretending that Amziegirl can have a separate boyfriend from Amber (and with lots of therapy).
I think Danny needs a partner that is willing to recognize their relationship in public (not a masked superhero-but-not-her-civilian-persona or a closeted gay dude, no matter how glorious his man-chest).
I think Ethan needs to either leave the closet, stay out of relationships for awhile or become much, MUCH better at communicating with his partner.
@Bagge, your comments are consistently my favorites. Do you have a blog somewhere I can read?
Awwww. Thank you. I do some tumbling, but that’s mostly for reblogging. Right now my main internet presence consist of overanalyzing the personal lives of comic characters right here 🙂
Hrmmm. I do some TUMBLING. (Let’s see if the link works this time)
/signed in full, Bagge. All excellent points!
He also fell pretty hard for Ethan. Literally though. Fell in the grass.
Also, that’s the exact point I was making, He thought he was straight, he thinks he’s monogamous. Also, he’s really only taken a stand against Promiscuity (a la Joe), which is very very different thing from a committed Poly relationship. It’s quite possible his hangup is the commitment part, not the strictly one person part.
Either way, I ship it.
None of them are emotionally mature or stable enough to pull that off even on the vague chance any of them wanted to.
Besides, Amber/Danny is pretty messed up and really shouldn’t continue. Especially since it’s actually Amazi-Girl/Danny and Amber is actively trying to give herself multiple personalities.
Yes yes yes Amber/Danny needs to come to a screeching halt. I really dislike that she doesn’t want anyone to know that she and Danny are dating. Maybe that might be fun for the first few weeks, but eventually, Danny is going to get sick of it. It needs to end now, while they still are on good terms, instead of later when Danny has harsh feelings towards her.
Amber needs to sort herself out before she dates ANYONE.
I didn’t think I would say this, but I think Joe has the best solution for Danny.
Danny is a hopeless romantic who derives his own value from his partner. He had to be extracted kicking and screaming from a dying relationship and now he latches on to everyone that gives him the time of the day. He would need a dramafree* relationship to be sickingly sweet in for awhile while he adjusts to life in college. I really hope Ethan can be that doofus for him – if he decides to come out of the closet that is.
*)As if – no such thing in Dumbing of age
Ethan might not be the boyfriend Joyce wants, but he’s the friend she needs. His reaction to “we need to break up” was “I’m going to walk you home so you’re not out here alone”.
He deserves better than to be shoved out the door.
Must not make Batman joke, must not make Batman joke…
This is a strip with only Ethan – it’s the perfect time for batman jokes.
Too true
To be fair, it wasn’t Joyce who pushed him out the door. I’m hoping she goes after him.
Didn’t mean to imply that it was Joyce’s doing.
So it just occured to me: has there ever been a strip with just one tag before?
Pretty sure Amber has been monologuing by herself (not amazie-girl) a few times.
Characters talk to themselves very, very frequently in this comic. Thought bubbles are rarely employed. Perhaps it’s to prevent the audience from hearing things that an eavesdropper wouldn’t.
I’m not sure, but there has been a comic with no tags. It was the dawn of the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit.
That would be a great title for a prequel-comic!
Yes, there’s one from last November that’s just Ruth thinking sad things at herself in class.
There have been quite a few; most recently, when Walky ate his 26.
Kinda hoping that before he leaves, he draws a penis on Joyce’s door.
This led Ethan to his career as a stand up comedian
“You, there in the front row, you look glum, you got dumped or something? Let me tell you about that one time I got dumped so hard… I got dumped first by this girl I was dating, and then dumped again by her best friend [light laughter], and she was a lesbian [more laugh]… AND I’M FRIGGIN’ GAY [heavy laughter]. Anyway, that reminds me of a batman joke I heard the other day…”
Well, at least Ethan seems to be adjusting to his new reality quickly. He doesn’t seem upset at all in that last panel.
Here’s to hoping that his newfound “just dudes from [now] on for me” sticks. Go, Ethan. Embrace your gayness and be happ – oh, wait, a Willis comic. This is going to end horribly (and possibly also hilariously), isn’t it?
Willis DID say that Ethan is gonna end up with a dude, so maybe it will be sucky at first, but he will find the right path!
Skipped over the thread. Has anyone mentioned adoption yet?
Funnily enough, everyone BUT Ethan. C’mon, Ethan, get on the internet and read the damn comments (also, the webcomic, which is pretty good, kinda).
Enh, nobody ever reads those overly-realistic comics, anyway. 🙂
This is the new ‘Carla is Ultra-Car, right?’
Okiedokielokie, lets get something ironed out.
Ethan said that dude on dude cannot result in pregnancy. He’s not talking about adoption, he’s not talking about artificial insemination, he’s talking about a child born from himself and his partner. He is making himself sad and upset because he can never have that.
At this age, Ethan is probably aware of adoption and artificial insemination. But that’s not the point. If you said that to him, he’d say “Yeah well we HAVE to do that. We don’t have a choice. And anyway, both are expensive, and who knows if we’ll even get approved for a child. And what if we can’t find a carrier? Maybe we can go the cheap route and use a turkey baster, but we still need to find a woman. We’ll never have it easy, we’ll never be able to say ‘Wanna make a baby’ and just do it!”
*breathes out heavily* That’s the issue.
I’m… not sure he’s upset about that. Maybe it’s just that the viewpoint is further from his face and we lose facial expression definition (or maybe it’s just me), but there seems to be a lessening of “upsetiness” from the second panel on.
I’m sure we’ll have clarification in further strips, but that last panel strikes me less “I’m upset I’ll never have biological kids easily” (and, btw, there’s plenty of hetero couples who can’t have biological kids either) than “hah, look at the silly place my rant got me to.”
I don’t think he’s upset about kids either. It’s just another stick to beat himself with as part of the main issue, which is that he’s upset / ashamed about being gay. I sympathize – I was in denial about my own sexuality from the age of about 14 through to 23. It’s a scary thing to be beset by thoughts which your upbringing and culture say are wrong, but which you have no control over.
“So in the future I’ve possibly had some sort of psychotic break with reality.”
Says the guy talking to himself in the middle of the hallway.
Hey, I see grad students talk to themselves all the time!
… Yeah, bad example.
Wait, is that not normal? I know I talk to myself all the time.
Eh, you become used to it after a while.
People who live on their own or are otherwise often physically isolated from others tend to get into the habit of talking to themselves.
This is affirming, thanks. 🙂
Also if you have a baby you’re encouraged to talk to it as you go about your day; helps them learn language and bond with you. Problem is, once you get used to narrating/holding a one-sided conversation with something that can’t really respond, it’s really, really, really hard to stop. If the dog’s there, you’re talking to the dog; if you’re on your own, you’re talking to yourself… And then the husband is in the next room complaining that he can’t hear you and you have to try to explain that you weren’t talking to him–despite no one else being in the house right then…
Why, yes, I do know this from personal experience. 😀 Why do you ask?
As Daniel the Human says, “sometimes the only decent conversation you can have is with yourself”. That & apparently he says things out loud deliberately to make sure they make sense. That said, we both know he’s already kinda crazy…
Joyce has freed him to be with his own kind! Sasquatches!
At least Bigfoot is an upstanding gentleman
Isn’t there a link to feet size & other things…
Uncanny timing, given the announcement this week of research that would allow two men to have children from their own DNA. It’s my one shot, honestly.
this monologue feels a lot like shortpacked ethan. i’ve missed him~
Ethan and Joyce’s break up is really anticlimactic. I’m not really surprised by that part. What I don’t get is how Ethan is thinking or believing he had a choice in being gay. He certainly was reacting consistently with that orientation. I guess I’m puzzled by his desire to live in the closet. I’ve never had to live his situation so I dunno, I’m ignorant, I’d rather understand where he’s coming from.
You know, I really feel for Ethan. It’s all well and good for us in the comments section, and Roz/Joyce/Dorothy/Becky/etc to proclaim what’s best for him, but at least in the short term I believe Joyce HAS been what’s best for him. In the long term, obviously not, but he wasn’t lying when he told Amber he was happy.
He’s spent a whole summer and the entirety of the school year before meeting Joyce (however long that’s been) being nothing but Ethan Who Is Gay. Everything in his life revolved around it, no one he knows and loves (INCLUDING Amber) was willing to talk about anything else, in fact everyone he knew and loved left him in some way because of is. Being gay has made his life awful. Who wouldn’t want to change awful into not-awful?
With Joyce, he got to do and talk about other things. He watched cartoons with her. He befriended Danny and they talked comic books and bonded over mutual love of Amber/Amazigirl. He got to be Ethan again.
Now he’s been shoved back into awful and isolation, as far as he knows. It’s a state he has no experience-based reason to expect anyone to help him with or relieve him of. He can’t watch cartoons with Amber and be her best friend: she only sees Gay Ethan who has exhausted her. Mike is an unrelenting asshole and always has been. Joyce has declared herself to be no longer interested in dealing with him. No doubt Danny will abandon him as well, because Danny is Amber’s boyfriend and also he sort of lied to Danny about not being gay.
What he needs is some experience of ‘gay does not necessarily have to mean awful isolation’ but I’m not sure I see him getting that anytime soon, because I’m not sure that anyone really sees that as the real problem. I hope I’m wrong. :-/
(I should also add that I think here is where Roz or Joe could really shine. Roz would be thrilled to really help someone, and sex-positive is her whole thing. Joe would be thrilled to really be somebody’s wingman for once.)
Well said. Since I’m feeling silly right now I’m just going to run with the last sentence.
Joe: “Hey, what’re you moping about.”
Ethan: “My girlfriend broke up with me and…”
Joe: “Just be glad to be rid of that one and that you didn’t get punched in the fa…”
Billie: “FAAAAAAACE”.
Joe: “…what she said. Don’t worry, I know a six who is open for…”
Ethan: “No, I can’t hide being gay anymore.”
Joe: “Gay, huh? And you have a batman t-shirt and are a bit of a dweeb…”
[Scene cut]
Joe: “Don’t say I’m not doing anything for you. The room is yours, lube and condoms are in the top drawer. I’ll be out all night (if you know what I mean). Have fun.”
Danny: “…errr….”
Ethan: “…that is….”
Joe: “Don’t you dare make the sock a liar again.”
Thanks for this. It was really well written and I get where he’s coming from now. I forget that his experience hasn’t been very supportive but only tolerant at best. It makes sense that being just Ethan can be appealing even if it includes the closet. I’d love to see Roz or Joe help him out, but he hasn’t had much contact with them.
He hasn’t, you’re right, so it’s more like wishful thinking from me.
Of the two, I think contact with Joe would be easiest; he could meet Joe through Danny, and Ethan’s feeeeeeelings problems (unlike Danny’s) really can sort of be partially solved kinda in a way with a hookup or three. Plus, Joe’s in Gender Studies too and was witness to the whole Joyce and Roz shebang plus the lecture that preceded it. I think he might well embrace the role as Ethan’s wingman not just because he loves being a wingman but because that lecture (and Joyce’s reaction) seemed to hit home for him, too, a little.
I think an Ethan/Roz friendship would be super adorable and give Roz +10 likability points.
Right? It’d be good for both of them very similarly to the way a Joyce/Roz friendship would be good for both of them but without the major roadblocks to be demolished first. Ethan’s very understanding and empathetic but lacks spine and will. Roz is all spine and will but short on real empathy/understanding. They could learn from each other and both be better for it.
Now let’s just hope Ethan just doesn’t get with another girl, and now he will have Amber AND Joyce breathing on his neck
Boom boom, ain’t it great to be,
Crazy?!
Boom boom, ain’t it great to be nuts?
Giddy & foolish, the whole day long.
Boom boom, ain’t it great to be,
CCRRAAAZZYYYYY!!!!
I think the thing boils down to the fact Ethan is entirely comfortable living a life without sex or romantic love. He enjoys his toys, his books, and the celibate lifestyle so to speak if it means not disappointing his parents. Its entirely realistic but so UNNECESSARY.
It’s a valid interpretation, and I think it’s pretty close to how Ethan sees himself, but I don’t believe it. The way he flirts with any cute boy that crosses his path and gets heartpatter whenever he sees Jacob says to me that he would love to be both romantically and sexually active in a world where that didn’t mean formulating his entire identity around it.
I think he would love to be like Dorothy, for example. She comes to college with a boyfriend, dumps him, get a new one in a week, dresses him like a doll and regularly runs off to have sex with him – and yet she is defined by her ambition and studiousness in the eyes of herself and everyone else (including the audience).
Poor Ethan. I kind of can’t help but think that spending an evening or three dancing with cute guys down at the local gay bar would help a lot, though.
–Indiana has gay bars, right? >.>
The city of Pawnee does!
… No, wait, that’s fictional.
It would have to be an underage one, and I don’t think I’ve seen an underage gay bar before!
In Asheville, NC there is at least one gay club that’s 18+, it’s called Scandals. I went to a foam party there once.