At least it’s a conversation that needs to happen. This difference in their behavior has really been danning up their entire friendship and it needed to be aired out.
I’m just gonna go ahead and say Michael Keaton, safe in the knowledge that no matter how badly this gets rejected, at least no one can say he’s the worst Batman—thanks to Val Kilmer.
I really had never thought to separate the question of best Batman from best Bruce Wayne before this thread. Huh! So interesting! With that, I’ll concede that George Clooney might be a slightly better Bruce Wayne. But Michael Keaton is still the best Batman to me, even when he’s not wearing his mask.
(Fav scene: when he is on the verge of telling Vicki [Kim Basinger] the truth, and the doorbell rings—she goes off to answer the door and he mouths “I am Batman” over and over, silently…) (Suddenly, I think this post should be on Shortpacked! I miss that strip.)
I loved that movie, but I was like 14 and Val Kilmer Batman was like my first and only celebrity crush. Why am I committing this to text where people can read it
1. Thank you for recognizing that voice actors have talent.
2. I have no opinion on the rest of this because I don’t pay attention to either actors or Batman.
Christian Bale is best Batman
Val Kilmer is best Bruce Wayne, by a country mile.
Casey Kasem was the best Robin
Yvonne Craig was the best Batgirl
Lee Merriwether the best Catwoman
Heath Ledger the best Joker
Adam West and Burt Ward get the wooden spoon every time.
Anytime someone asks me “best batman?” I have to respond with “Bruce Wayne” because it is a valid answer since there are now a few different men who have taken on the role. And really the actors all have their ups and downs but they are all still batman and batman is wonderful no matter what!
I think platonic, non-romantic and non-sexual relationships are just as fascinating and important and emotional as the boning ones, and I feel like we don’t necessarily get a lot of that.
In fact, I think Danny’s libido really Dannied it up for him. If it hadn’t decided that Ethan was mr “Sexo Loco” he and Danny could have been best of friends by now instead of being… stuff.
Of course, there might still be a happy ending for them, but in the meanwhile there is… stuff.
I wouldn’t blame Danny’s libido, Ethan flirts hard without realising it. Danny was basically three quarters seduced before he realised anything was happening.
Well, look at that. A hint of who Joe is behind the bro-mask. (Just so you know, Joe, it is possible to handle feelings without “a lot of yelling”, even if your parents didn’t).
And finally, FINALLY a hint that Joes and Danny’s friendship is more than just memories.
Heh, and just two days ago I explained in detail why I think he is a douche.
More to the point I think he is a crappy friend to Danny in a situation where Danny REALLY would need a good friend.
What I have come to realize these last few days (thanks, fellow commentators) is that from Joe’s point of view Danny is a crappy friend to him.
In the end of the day they are just growing apart. That’s sad but it’s nobodies fault. What they need to do is either a Dorothy-Danny and break up and go separate ways, or a Joyce-Becky and acknowledge that they have changed from when they were kids and find a way to transfer their friendship into this new situation.
It seems to me they are finally starting on the latter.
I’m also with Danny here. But I feel like it’s more personal inclination than anything. If you don’t want the Caroline’s Feelings Digest, you should probably just not be friends with me.
And even if your not the sort to talk about “stuff”, being a dick when your friend comes to you looking for help in working out their “stuff” is…well, being a dick.
Yeah, it really seems like his behavior is designed to avoid confrontation of deeper issues. A long term relationship is a big nope for Joe because the girl might actually want to get to know parts of him he’d rather not face.
And now I think it’d be fun to see if Joe can be interested in being mono or at the very least have a casual relationship longer than a one night stand.
In fairness, I don’t think it’s a ‘guys can’t do this’ thing as much as it’s a ‘Joe doesn’t want to do this’ thing. In previous strips, Joe has proven to be quite secure at least regarding whether his masculinity depends on dumb little rules.
I suspect Joe lives in a state of extreme conflict-avoidance because his parents ‘yelled a lot’ and he doesn’t want to go through that again.
I always figured he was referring the being punched; looking at his face now I’m not 100% positive, though. Considering his reaction to her later, though, I think that initial assessment was probably right; since then his attitude towards her seems to have mostly been “Yeah, that’s not going to happen because you’re crazy MOVING ON.”
Yeah, he might just mean it literally. But if so, it seems like an odd thing to say, and an odd way to put it. Especially since he says it quietly, such that Joyce wouldn’t actually hear it. And I can’t really read that expression, but it doesn’t look like “you’re a crazy bongo who hired someone to punch me in the face” anger.
Joyce has touched Joe a LOT more than he’s touched her. On their date, before the punching really started she spent a good amount of time holding his hand and arm, she touched his face to ‘look at’ where Mike punched him the first time, and so on.
Joe hasn’t actually done anything to Joyce, but she’s done plenty to him. (TBH, part of me thinks that when Joyce and Ethan break up, Joyce could do a lot worse than Joe for a new protector-type if they can manage to get along. I think Joe could use a dose or three of Joyce’s bravery, and Joyce could use a dose or three of Joe’s tendency to just do what he wants.)
How can Joe be the protector when Joyce is throwing all the punches?
Silliness aside, you’re right. After his pugilistic trial by fire, we know that Joe would never react like Ryan (why does the ultimate bad guy here have to share my name?).
I can’t be the only one who is aware that a lot of people, if they are born with a Y chromosome, are encouraged from their childhood years and into adulthood to keep their emotions to themselves and avoid all the feels.
I am aware that it’s a generational thing as well as a cultural one. Many parents know better today, mine fortunately did, but there are still many who raise their sons to believe that expressing emotion is unmanly. I know people who literally feel like they fail as men because they’re going through a depression.
That’s an enormous problem and people who buy into the whole “bro” persona, like Joe, are especially at risk. He is pretty good to distance himself from the more toxic parts of that persona (he is big on consent for one thing), but shutting away his feelings will be a problem for him.
The worst part is that most men would rather die than be seen with a ‘shrink’. And for those going through depression, that isn’t just a turn of phrase.
It was pulled before the school year bagan, thrown into an open fire as a sacrifice to enhance the drama, then those involved pulled up some folding chairs, grabbed some popcorn & drinks & let the show commence. Those were comfy chairs… 😛
I really have to wonder how these two came to be friends in the first place. Yes, I know Joe mentioned a while back that they “ate a lot of paste”, but seriously. They’re completely different in their approaches to life and sexuality…pretty much everything, really.
I imagine Joe has his reasons for being irritated with Dan here. Perhaps we’ll find out what some of those reasons are. I hope so. I’m not willing to write off his attitude here as simply him being a jerk; I suspect it’s more complex than that.
They’ve canonically been friends since at least as far back third grade (“New Main Man”, 11/19/2013).
In elementary school, friendships tend to form for less solid reasons, and as Danny and Joe get older there’s really no reason for them to drift apart unless anything comes directly in between their friendship.
I think there are a few reasons why their relationship is crumbling.
They were best of friends when they were kids, but they are not kids any more. Joe is growing up as fast as he can, embracing a grown man’s situation (Sex!) while Danny tries to make everything stay as in high school as much as he can (same girlfriend, living with my best friend, playing with super heros). They are both really annoyed that the other doesn’t want to play on their terms any more.
Joe doesn’t want to talk about feelings. Maybe there is a history there. Maybe it’s the divorce where his parents yelled a lot.
Joe has just like us noticed Danny’s habit of Dannying things up and he wants no part of it.
I think it’s more than that though. Joe’s embrace of a “grown man’s situation” like sex isn’t a mark of maturity, it’s just him trying to create the illusion of maturity. Danny’s actually trying to have a substantive conversation, and Joe just isn’t having it. If anything Joe’s the one trying to keep things in stasis.
I think I read somewhere that the older a child is, the more their parents’ divorce will adversely affect them. I wonder how long ago Joe’s parents divorced? How much that contributed to his attitude of “having feelings includes some of those feelings being painful”?
Adversely how? My parents divorced when I was seventeen ish and it was pretty obviously a good thing for both of them (besides my dad bombing his pancreas in his first summer as a newly divorced fella, adult onset diabetes is arguably not good for anyone). I’m not as positively disposed toward marriage as I could be, but that’s mostly because marriages and relationships take work from both partners and I know I’m basically too lazy and entrenched in my personality and behavior patterns to exert the effort (as confirmed by a failed long-term relationship of my own, of which admittedly I wasn’t the sole cause of the end, but I did contribute). So does being aware that it’s better for everyone if I don’t go that route count as being adversely affected by my parents divorcing in my late teens?
Keep in mind that we’re probably talking about statistics. There will be a distribution of outcomes, ranging from relieved to absolutely devastated. On an individual level, we can only predict probabilities.
My suspicion is that this is–if true–only true for a certain range of years. Like, your parents divorcing when you’re a month old might not have much effect, whereas you’d remember it really well if you were 8. But obviously if you were 40, there’d be very little effect.
I think it also depends on how out of the blue it is. I.e., the longer the marriage has been unhappy, the less devastating the eventual divorce is going to be.
Granted, I could just be blowing smoke as my parents are happily married and don’t seem to be going down that route, but it’s food for thought.
Now, I know this must mean Joe has serious stuff he feels got tossed to the side for Dororthy but at the same time I kind of want to think Joe had some sort of kid!crush on Danny at some point…and oh, gawddamn it. Now I ship it just a little.
The sad part is this is far from the only thing Danny’s had trouble discussing with Amber. The whole Blaine issue is another thing. So is originally choosing Amazi-girl over her. The stuff Ethan blabbed about her past. Tutoring Sal (although he doesn’t know that yet). And she effectively shut down conversation about him wanting to date her publicly as Amber.
I know I was all chanting for Amber/Danny/Ethan OT3, but it’s stuff like this that makes me think Amber and Danny are doomed. They don’t really trust each other (right now? yet?). And I can’t blame them, seeing as they’ve given each other lots of reasons to distrust the other.
If it were a Nicolas Sparks novel I could totally see them just throwing all their baggage to the side saying “NO. I want you! I don’t give no shits ’bout nuffin’ else!” and then kissing in the middle of a rain storm for some reason.
Buuuuut in the somehow both more realistic and more interesting Dumbiverse, things aren’t looking so great for that ship.
And the mess Amber made of pretending to date him in front of his parents (which might be one reason why she insists it’s only Amazie-girl who dates him now). And how her vigilanteing forces them to keep the whole thing hidden.
Yup, kids have issues.
But then they do things like this, and I think maybe there is hope for them.
I really hope they finally resolve their issues since I really don’t enjoy seeing Danny and Joe interact; if I recall correctly the first time they talk Joe says to Danny what ammounts to I’d really like to do your girlfriend and then shows up at the break up to give danny an “I told you so” and then “I’ll totally fuck your ex” cheese dood, not cool.
Also I really like Danny’s “I miss that” line, it show he does care for Joe and their friendship, Joe also has showed signs of caring: trying to get Danny over Dorothy, giving him advice; but I don’t think neither can be the friend each other wants, since I see Danny being closer to Ethan and Joe to whoever the hell he shares a panel with he’ll have a better interaction than with Danny.
Who knows, I’m looking forward to the end of the arc, Danny and Ethan have some good moments and I really want to see them appear together more often, yet, I want Danny to be straight forward about his attraction to both Amber and Ethan; it’d be nice if they maintained their friendship, he cut ties with Amber for similar reasons but I think as long as Ethan takes some distance they could have a good friendship going on : ^D
And by saying that last sentence I just nominated myself to feed Mike for the next week.
Rant: Over.
Oh man this hit me in the feels. I’m going through something similar right now, not about coming out but about just generally growing apart from your best friend, somebody who you used to be able to talk about anything with. Lately it’s like we only have small talk, and there are no “feels” getting in the way…
So, is Joe just trying to work out of this conversation, of does he have a point regarding this stuff? And could they possibly be any more vague about this stuff?
Joe clamped down his feelings after his parents divorced. He doesn’t talk about them or want to hear about them. Keep it all on the surface.
So, while Joe will only discuss sex in any depth, and Danny has been pretty clueless about everything, including sex: I always thought that they got along so well just out of habit: they’ve known each other forever.
I understand why Danny wants to talk to Joe, best friend sex machine: but I kind of understand why Joe doesn’t want to get dragged into a very deep feely conversation.
Ideally, Joe should see a counselor, but there’s too much stigma for him to even consider it. So, he’ll probably melt down one day, and most likely during sex.
I wonder if the Danny x Ethan thing will bring up issues relating to polyamoury (Danny possibly wanting to be with both Amber and Ethan). Would Amber oblige? Would Ethan?
“So, okay, Danny, there’s this ‘no touching other people’s stuff’ rule which means no matter how much you want to touch Ethan’s ‘stuff’ you shouldn’t be touching his ‘stuff,’ if you know what I mean. Don’t even *think* about…’stuff.'” *deep breath “Jesus, stuff’s complicated.”
Can someone explain to me how Joe and Jacob are friends? Joe seems only to want to talk about women in terms of sexual gratification, but Jacob–like Danny!–is interested in sex mostly in terms of a relationship. (Too bad Sarah and Joe couldn’t work out some kind of hate-fuckery situation.)
I dunno how good friends they really are, we have only seen them hang out a few times, and I don’t recall Jacob saying anything about them being friends.
I imagine they found a common interest, like started to hang out at the gym, or just bonded over the fact that both are hot (would be an important foundation for friendship in Joe’s book). It could even have been Roz who introduced them.
Basically when Danny get new friends he does it by being rescued from bullies, and being super attracted to them, and sharing dark secrets, and engaging in wacky missunderstandings, and learning new things about his sexuality. When Joe gets new friends they start hanging out together.
I’m starting to doubt the claim that when Joe has sex he brings that positive energy back into his relationship with Dan.
I mean, here he is, just had sex, but I’m not seeing any positive energy. Mostly he seems to be put out that he’s been asked to bring anything into “us” at all.
It would work if Danny followed Joes new script for friendship, but to Joe’s endless frustration Danny tries to stick to their old script.
Friendship on planet Joe
Joe: “I just had sex”
Danny: “Neato, how big were her knockers”
Joe: “They were great, and she had that whole strict school teacher going. I’m getting extra credit if you know what I mean”
Danny: “I sure do. High five bro.”
Joe: “High five. Hey, I met this eight over in the library who might be into a the nerdy crowd. Call her.”
Danny: “I sure will. Thanks, Joe”
i think joe is more in the right here. i’ll bet he’s point out that if danny is bi, so what? then ask him to imagine the situation if ethan was a girl, then it’s less about him discovering some new side of himself and more him considering cheating on amber or dumping her for someone else.
I really don’t think Danny’s been considering cheating or anything like that. Just trying to come to terms with a confusing and uncomfortable aspect of himself.
Agreed. And keep in mind, it’s easier to avoid uncomfortable situations when you don’t have to share the SHOWER with someone you are attracted to. Or a Girlfriend. Can you imagine how hard that one must be?
Danny still wants Amber/amazigirl, but he’s constantly being pushed into situations where someone else sets him off against his will.
Danny has no idea that he’s bi. He doesn’t seem to know what “bi” is. He’s rethinking his entire identity.
If Ethan were a girl, then Danny would think “Hmmm, I’m attracted to her. Well, I’ll watch myself really carefully to not cross any lines, and put distance between me and my new friend if worst comes to worst, because I love Amber and would never hurt her.” I know this is factually true because it’s what he did with Amber when he thought he was only dating Amazi-Girl.
Man, I just realized, after so many years of making fun of Degrassi in middle and high school, I’m reading more or less he same level high dramatics in college
Man, I know panel 4 is leading to “Joe does actually care about Danny but he prefers not to show it because FEELS” but I still can’t stand him. If you have to put that much effort into letting your friends know you care about them, you need to rethink things.
why is joe so cute in this strip. he rivals a pug puppy in a tutu.
… okay thats a lie. a tiger. how about that. his adorableness level rivals a tiger. tiger adorableness levels are hard to beatbut do not reach the level of pug puppy tutu friends.
So… I’m increasingly getting the impression that Joe’s hiding a lot of this ‘feelings’ stuff and his limitless amount of superficial sexcapades are his way of hiding from said “stuff.”
I have a strange feeling now that Joe was alluding some emotion stuff that blew up in his face now. Wether it came from Danny or not should be interesting to find out.
Over at Woody After Hours, we learn that any claim can be supported by Photoshop.
Loading ...
Issues. Things. Stuffy.
Danny just keeps on Danning up this conversation… 😛
At least it’s a conversation that needs to happen. This difference in their behavior has really been danning up their entire friendship and it needed to be aired out.
FEELINGS ARE STUPID AND I HATE THEM.
Yeah Joe really needs to work on that.
—Joe Rosenthal, during the divorce of his parents. Also all the time afterword, albeit more below the surface.
Agreed.
Just point out Joe, he’s acting like Walky and watch it all spill out…
Well, things were SLIGHTLY less complicated at 8, bro.
Not at all. Me and my brothers’ debate about which Batman is best continues to this day.
So Adam West then?
LEGO BATMAN REMAINS BEST BATMAN.
I also like Christian Bale because his absurd raspy voice is hilarious.
George Clooney was best Batmaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Sorry, I was literally unable to finish that sentence.
Clooney was at least a pretty decent Bruce Wayne.
I’m just gonna go ahead and say Michael Keaton, safe in the knowledge that no matter how badly this gets rejected, at least no one can say he’s the worst Batman—thanks to Val Kilmer.
I dunno, Michael Keaton’s always been my favorite Batman.
Yay, Laurel Raven! I am not alone!
The Animates Series Batman is the best Batman.
I will grant Lego Batman a close second, though. 😀
For me, Batman is the least interesting part of the larger Gotham mythos. But Bruce Wayne in batman beyond is awesome.
“Get off my lawn you kids”
I really had never thought to separate the question of best Batman from best Bruce Wayne before this thread. Huh! So interesting! With that, I’ll concede that George Clooney might be a slightly better Bruce Wayne. But Michael Keaton is still the best Batman to me, even when he’s not wearing his mask.
(Fav scene: when he is on the verge of telling Vicki [Kim Basinger] the truth, and the doorbell rings—she goes off to answer the door and he mouths “I am Batman” over and over, silently…) (Suddenly, I think this post should be on Shortpacked! I miss that strip.)
Great, I can imagine him telling them “Don’t make me sic Batman on you!”
I loved that movie, but I was like 14 and Val Kilmer Batman was like my first and only celebrity crush. Why am I committing this to text where people can read it
Alicia Silverstone is best Batgirl.
Julie Newmar is best Catwoman.
There is no best Robin outside the comics.
OH YEAH?! How many of the Comicbook Robins have a song written about them? Huh?! How many? Burt Ward has one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjoLQbJCPTI So there. :p
Saw the r is another t for a moment. I was like “wat?”!
you mean “wart” or purrhaps “wirt” you also did not see the “t” in your own comment.
Huh. I generally can’t accept any live-action Batgirl. Alicia Silverstone was rather painful for me to watch. >_>;
And Michelle Pfeiffer is best Catwoman. 😛
Live Action Flinstones killed live action for me too. I recovered to the point where I can accept it, but I still much prefer animation.
Pfeiffer was so awesome she single handed confused my sexuality as I couldn’t accept not being attracted to that.
+10 on Michelle Pfieffer
Kevin Conroy.
*drops mic, walks out*
this.
Picks up mic, finishes phrase…
“…was pretty average as voice artists go, Peter Weller and Jeremey Sisto have both done much better characterisations”
1. Thank you for recognizing that voice actors have talent.
2. I have no opinion on the rest of this because I don’t pay attention to either actors or Batman.
Christian Bale is best Batman
Val Kilmer is best Bruce Wayne, by a country mile.
Casey Kasem was the best Robin
Yvonne Craig was the best Batgirl
Lee Merriwether the best Catwoman
Heath Ledger the best Joker
Adam West and Burt Ward get the wooden spoon every time.
Anytime someone asks me “best batman?” I have to respond with “Bruce Wayne” because it is a valid answer since there are now a few different men who have taken on the role. And really the actors all have their ups and downs but they are all still batman and batman is wonderful no matter what!
Come on Joe, just take everything that’s bothering you deep down and just let it go, you’ll feel better.
Well, he’s probably afraid that once he starts talking, he won’t be able to hold himself back anymore.
He seems more apt to turn away from emotional issues and slam the door behind them.
Well, he probably won’t mind what they’re going to say, anyway.
He needs to put some distance between himself and his problems. It will make them seem small.
Maybe then he’ll be able to see what he can do. Test his limits, so to speak.
Joe seems sad.
Right or wrong, I’m with Joe on this subject.
Nah. His kind of stance always ends up on stories that eventually leads to:
“I’ve always liked you Danny! I just need to hide it!”
So what is your prediction for the shipping forecast?
Not gonna happen. Because it’s Willis. And I’m probably just fangirling.
End of the week here. (As in next Friday, cause end of the week is like tomorrow.)
“Someone’s gonna get hurt. IN THEIR FAAAAAAAAACE!”
And then Joe and Danny kiss. That’s pretty much the only way this should end
“NOW kiss, dammit.”
“Has that ever worked?”
“Sure, if we yell enough there might be a Slipshine”
Maybe if Lucy and her magic shipping hands ever make it over from the Walkyverse…
She must never use that power for evil. Or for tumblr. Then we would have ALL THE SHIPS.
Danny: “Wanna be the stuff then?”
…aand kiss.
Weird…Blank comment, not even anything about awaiting moderating.
Blarglphlegm…I’ll just leave it in Willis’ hands now. I shouldn’t try to do HTML after work, clearly.
But yes, This. Here. I have left it.
I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t be a fan of that.
I think platonic, non-romantic and non-sexual relationships are just as fascinating and important and emotional as the boning ones, and I feel like we don’t necessarily get a lot of that.
In fact, I think Danny’s libido really Dannied it up for him. If it hadn’t decided that Ethan was mr “Sexo Loco” he and Danny could have been best of friends by now instead of being… stuff.
Of course, there might still be a happy ending for them, but in the meanwhile there is… stuff.
I wouldn’t blame Danny’s libido, Ethan flirts hard without realising it. Danny was basically three quarters seduced before he realised anything was happening.
Oh, I’m not at all convinced that Ethan is doing it without realising it, but that’s a topic for another time.
Well, who- or whatever is to blame it made Danny’s life more complicated than it had to be. Again. There’s always stuff.
There’s a question? I thought everything here was Willis’s fault. Well, everything except the comments section.
“I think this is the beginning of beautiful stuff.”
Agreed.
Try telling that to most fandoms, though.
No way. That’s just wrong.
Joe and Mike are gonna end up together.
Joe, it’s okay to be bi, dude. Seriously. :3
It’s not the bi that’s causing problems. It’s the feelings. All the feelings!
Well, look at that. A hint of who Joe is behind the bro-mask. (Just so you know, Joe, it is possible to handle feelings without “a lot of yelling”, even if your parents didn’t).
And finally, FINALLY a hint that Joes and Danny’s friendship is more than just memories.
oooooooooooooh, I like that analysis of Joe
I agree, thank you Bagge for your thoughtful and compassionate take on Joe.
Heh, and just two days ago I explained in detail why I think he is a douche.
More to the point I think he is a crappy friend to Danny in a situation where Danny REALLY would need a good friend.
What I have come to realize these last few days (thanks, fellow commentators) is that from Joe’s point of view Danny is a crappy friend to him.
In the end of the day they are just growing apart. That’s sad but it’s nobodies fault. What they need to do is either a Dorothy-Danny and break up and go separate ways, or a Joyce-Becky and acknowledge that they have changed from when they were kids and find a way to transfer their friendship into this new situation.
It seems to me they are finally starting on the latter.
He’s definitely being a douche. Much worse than Dan right now IMHO. But not as jerky as Mike because he couldn’t even.
Just like I thought: Joe can’t handle touchy-feely stuff because he’s let that part of himself atrophy.
Or locked it up, painted the key blue, and threw it in the ocean.
Damn, I’m Danny.
I need to be more like Joe. 🙂
And yes, my gravatar makes this even more amusing. :p
Just figuring this out now?
I just hope we don’t need to hand hold him through some excruciating self discovery.
It does not surprise me that these two gravs would pick on a Danny grav xD
Yeah, I’m with Danny. Talking about this sort of thing is good for your soul and shit.
I’m also with Danny here. But I feel like it’s more personal inclination than anything. If you don’t want the Caroline’s Feelings Digest, you should probably just not be friends with me.
And even if your not the sort to talk about “stuff”, being a dick when your friend comes to you looking for help in working out their “stuff” is…well, being a dick.
BROS BROS BROS BROS
Jeph?
BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS
MUSKRAT MUSKRAT MUSKRAT
Muskrat muskrat muskrat muskrat
Badger badger badger badger
SHOTS SHOTS SHOTS SHOTS
Aw, the big lummox and his five o’clock shadow are inching toward admitting that they care. Now he’s actually on the adorable side of awkward.
In my opinion, Joe always seemed to be somewhat of a douche, and these last few strips have done little or nothing to make me change that opinion.
I agree, but at least he’s revealing a little complexity.
Is he being a douche? Absolutely.
Is he intentionally being a douche? I don’t think so. Joe, like everyone else in Dumbing of Age, seems to have issues that he needs to sort out.
It’s his avoiding those issues that leads to him being a douche.
Yeah, it really seems like his behavior is designed to avoid confrontation of deeper issues. A long term relationship is a big nope for Joe because the girl might actually want to get to know parts of him he’d rather not face.
And now I think it’d be fun to see if Joe can be interested in being mono or at the very least have a casual relationship longer than a one night stand.
@Shade —
Joe, like everyone else
in Dumbing of Age, seems to have issues that he needs to sort out.Fixed that for you 😉
Indeed, you did.
GUYS CAN’T TALK ABOUT FEELINGS THAT WOULD BE WIERD
In fairness, I don’t think it’s a ‘guys can’t do this’ thing as much as it’s a ‘Joe doesn’t want to do this’ thing. In previous strips, Joe has proven to be quite secure at least regarding whether his masculinity depends on dumb little rules.
I suspect Joe lives in a state of extreme conflict-avoidance because his parents ‘yelled a lot’ and he doesn’t want to go through that again.
Joe and Danny the Best Friends that dont talk to each other, dont really hang out together anymore, and they are both kind of ashamed of each other.
…..
BEST FRENDSHIP EVER!!!!!!!
Yeah, Danny, why can’t you bottle everything up inside until you explode from the pressure?
Oh, right.
Stuff……… Thangs…..
Objects….
Yeah, Joe, if you just keep everything superficial and shallow, then nobody gets hurt. That totally worked with Joyce. THAT IS EXACTLY HOW THAT WORKS!
Incidentally, are we actually going to talk about Joe’s parents’ divorce this time on college losers?
Of course, Joyce was the one who turned “want to get a pizza” into “MRS JOYCE ROSENTHAL!”
If only Sarah had warned him or something…
I’ve wondered all along exactly what Joe meant by his last line here.
She punched him in the FAAAAAAAAAAACE (am I doing this right?)
Well, mike did, but I think everytime Joe refers to the punching he says Joyce did it
Mike started it, Joyce joined in when when Mike said Joe was ogling the waitress.
I always figured he was referring the being punched; looking at his face now I’m not 100% positive, though. Considering his reaction to her later, though, I think that initial assessment was probably right; since then his attitude towards her seems to have mostly been “Yeah, that’s not going to happen because you’re crazy MOVING ON.”
Yeah, he might just mean it literally. But if so, it seems like an odd thing to say, and an odd way to put it. Especially since he says it quietly, such that Joyce wouldn’t actually hear it. And I can’t really read that expression, but it doesn’t look like “you’re a crazy bongo who hired someone to punch me in the face” anger.
Joyce has touched Joe a LOT more than he’s touched her. On their date, before the punching really started she spent a good amount of time holding his hand and arm, she touched his face to ‘look at’ where Mike punched him the first time, and so on.
Joe has touched Joyce exactly twice in the entire run of the comic as far as I can tell: taking her hand ‘chivalrously’ when he introduced himself and touching her back when he introduced Danny to her and Sarah.
Joe hasn’t actually done anything to Joyce, but she’s done plenty to him. (TBH, part of me thinks that when Joyce and Ethan break up, Joyce could do a lot worse than Joe for a new protector-type if they can manage to get along. I think Joe could use a dose or three of Joyce’s bravery, and Joyce could use a dose or three of Joe’s tendency to just do what he wants.)
How can Joe be the protector when Joyce is throwing all the punches?
Silliness aside, you’re right. After his pugilistic trial by fire, we know that Joe would never react like Ryan (why does the ultimate bad guy here have to share my name?).
I can’t be the only one who is aware that a lot of people, if they are born with a Y chromosome, are encouraged from their childhood years and into adulthood to keep their emotions to themselves and avoid all the feels.
I am aware that it’s a generational thing as well as a cultural one. Many parents know better today, mine fortunately did, but there are still many who raise their sons to believe that expressing emotion is unmanly. I know people who literally feel like they fail as men because they’re going through a depression.
That’s an enormous problem and people who buy into the whole “bro” persona, like Joe, are especially at risk. He is pretty good to distance himself from the more toxic parts of that persona (he is big on consent for one thing), but shutting away his feelings will be a problem for him.
The worst part is that most men would rather die than be seen with a ‘shrink’. And for those going through depression, that isn’t just a turn of phrase.
Good chance we’ll have the divorce talk this time around, assuming aliens don’t show up again.
Joe’s getting entangled in the drama web. Don’t fight it, Joe! Embrace it!
SOGGIES MAY RULE!
The drama tag came pre-pulled. You can’t fight it. THERE WILL BE STUFF.
It was pulled before the school year bagan, thrown into an open fire as a sacrifice to enhance the drama, then those involved pulled up some folding chairs, grabbed some popcorn & drinks & let the show commence. Those were comfy chairs… 😛
Someone’s about to get… stuffed!
I really have to wonder how these two came to be friends in the first place. Yes, I know Joe mentioned a while back that they “ate a lot of paste”, but seriously. They’re completely different in their approaches to life and sexuality…pretty much everything, really.
I imagine Joe has his reasons for being irritated with Dan here. Perhaps we’ll find out what some of those reasons are. I hope so. I’m not willing to write off his attitude here as simply him being a jerk; I suspect it’s more complex than that.
It looks to me like they’ve just grown apart, and only one of them is interested in keeping the friendship the same as it has been.
They’ve canonically been friends since at least as far back third grade (“New Main Man”, 11/19/2013).
In elementary school, friendships tend to form for less solid reasons, and as Danny and Joe get older there’s really no reason for them to drift apart unless anything comes directly in between their friendship.
Plus, they are a little married, after all.
According to Danny, they met in Kindergarten, so it’s even been even longer than that.
I think there are a few reasons why their relationship is crumbling.
They were best of friends when they were kids, but they are not kids any more. Joe is growing up as fast as he can, embracing a grown man’s situation (Sex!) while Danny tries to make everything stay as in high school as much as he can (same girlfriend, living with my best friend, playing with super heros). They are both really annoyed that the other doesn’t want to play on their terms any more.
Joe doesn’t want to talk about feelings. Maybe there is a history there. Maybe it’s the divorce where his parents yelled a lot.
Joe has just like us noticed Danny’s habit of Dannying things up and he wants no part of it.
I think it’s more than that though. Joe’s embrace of a “grown man’s situation” like sex isn’t a mark of maturity, it’s just him trying to create the illusion of maturity. Danny’s actually trying to have a substantive conversation, and Joe just isn’t having it. If anything Joe’s the one trying to keep things in stasis.
dahhhhh, Joe wants to talk he just wants to not want to talk
Surprise twist!
I think I read somewhere that the older a child is, the more their parents’ divorce will adversely affect them. I wonder how long ago Joe’s parents divorced? How much that contributed to his attitude of “having feelings includes some of those feelings being painful”?
Adversely how? My parents divorced when I was seventeen ish and it was pretty obviously a good thing for both of them (besides my dad bombing his pancreas in his first summer as a newly divorced fella, adult onset diabetes is arguably not good for anyone). I’m not as positively disposed toward marriage as I could be, but that’s mostly because marriages and relationships take work from both partners and I know I’m basically too lazy and entrenched in my personality and behavior patterns to exert the effort (as confirmed by a failed long-term relationship of my own, of which admittedly I wasn’t the sole cause of the end, but I did contribute). So does being aware that it’s better for everyone if I don’t go that route count as being adversely affected by my parents divorcing in my late teens?
Keep in mind that we’re probably talking about statistics. There will be a distribution of outcomes, ranging from relieved to absolutely devastated. On an individual level, we can only predict probabilities.
My suspicion is that this is–if true–only true for a certain range of years. Like, your parents divorcing when you’re a month old might not have much effect, whereas you’d remember it really well if you were 8. But obviously if you were 40, there’d be very little effect.
I think it also depends on how out of the blue it is. I.e., the longer the marriage has been unhappy, the less devastating the eventual divorce is going to be.
Granted, I could just be blowing smoke as my parents are happily married and don’t seem to be going down that route, but it’s food for thought.
Now, I know this must mean Joe has serious stuff he feels got tossed to the side for Dororthy but at the same time I kind of want to think Joe had some sort of kid!crush on Danny at some point…and oh, gawddamn it. Now I ship it just a little.
Maybe Joe had a crush on Dorothy . . . ??
He was very quick to add her to the “do” list back on the first day.
That’s right! Thank you for that point—and that eyebrow.
Danny, perspective has given you the advantage over Joe! Pick him up and force him to talk, or you’ll crush his tiny head with your giant hand!
“So… Amber, I have a crush on your ex-boyfriend. Is that awkward?”
*Amber spontaneously combusts*
The sad part is this is far from the only thing Danny’s had trouble discussing with Amber. The whole Blaine issue is another thing. So is originally choosing Amazi-girl over her. The stuff Ethan blabbed about her past. Tutoring Sal (although he doesn’t know that yet). And she effectively shut down conversation about him wanting to date her publicly as Amber.
I know I was all chanting for Amber/Danny/Ethan OT3, but it’s stuff like this that makes me think Amber and Danny are doomed. They don’t really trust each other (right now? yet?). And I can’t blame them, seeing as they’ve given each other lots of reasons to distrust the other.
If it were a Nicolas Sparks novel I could totally see them just throwing all their baggage to the side saying “NO. I want you! I don’t give no shits ’bout nuffin’ else!” and then kissing in the middle of a rain storm for some reason.
Buuuuut in the somehow both more realistic and more interesting Dumbiverse, things aren’t looking so great for that ship.
And the mess Amber made of pretending to date him in front of his parents (which might be one reason why she insists it’s only Amazie-girl who dates him now). And how her vigilanteing forces them to keep the whole thing hidden.
Yup, kids have issues.
But then they do things like this, and I think maybe there is hope for them.
I really hope they finally resolve their issues since I really don’t enjoy seeing Danny and Joe interact; if I recall correctly the first time they talk Joe says to Danny what ammounts to I’d really like to do your girlfriend and then shows up at the break up to give danny an “I told you so” and then “I’ll totally fuck your ex” cheese dood, not cool.
Also I really like Danny’s “I miss that” line, it show he does care for Joe and their friendship, Joe also has showed signs of caring: trying to get Danny over Dorothy, giving him advice; but I don’t think neither can be the friend each other wants, since I see Danny being closer to Ethan and Joe to whoever the hell he shares a panel with he’ll have a better interaction than with Danny.
Who knows, I’m looking forward to the end of the arc, Danny and Ethan have some good moments and I really want to see them appear together more often, yet, I want Danny to be straight forward about his attraction to both Amber and Ethan; it’d be nice if they maintained their friendship, he cut ties with Amber for similar reasons but I think as long as Ethan takes some distance they could have a good friendship going on : ^D
And by saying that last sentence I just nominated myself to feed Mike for the next week.
Rant: Over.
And that’s why I’ve been chanting for them to break up since the beginning.
Oh man this hit me in the feels. I’m going through something similar right now, not about coming out but about just generally growing apart from your best friend, somebody who you used to be able to talk about anything with. Lately it’s like we only have small talk, and there are no “feels” getting in the way…
Danny needs a hug. Although depending on the gender of the hugger, that might not help things…
Or regardless of the gender of the hugger?
Alt Text spoils all the good twists
JOE YOU ARE MAKING ME FEEL VERY CONFLICTED
So, is Joe just trying to work out of this conversation, of does he have a point regarding this stuff? And could they possibly be any more vague about this stuff?
I get the impression that if Joe could possibly be any more vague about this stuff, he would in a heartbeat.
Joe clamped down his feelings after his parents divorced. He doesn’t talk about them or want to hear about them. Keep it all on the surface.
So, while Joe will only discuss sex in any depth, and Danny has been pretty clueless about everything, including sex: I always thought that they got along so well just out of habit: they’ve known each other forever.
I understand why Danny wants to talk to Joe, best friend sex machine: but I kind of understand why Joe doesn’t want to get dragged into a very deep feely conversation.
Ideally, Joe should see a counselor, but there’s too much stigma for him to even consider it. So, he’ll probably melt down one day, and most likely during sex.
I wonder if the Danny x Ethan thing will bring up issues relating to polyamoury (Danny possibly wanting to be with both Amber and Ethan). Would Amber oblige? Would Ethan?
“So, okay, Danny, there’s this ‘no touching other people’s stuff’ rule which means no matter how much you want to touch Ethan’s ‘stuff’ you shouldn’t be touching his ‘stuff,’ if you know what I mean. Don’t even *think* about…’stuff.'” *deep breath “Jesus, stuff’s complicated.”
And if you touch it enough “stuff” has a tendency to grow and become even more of a complication that it was before.
“It got old”?
*Groan*
Can someone explain to me how Joe and Jacob are friends? Joe seems only to want to talk about women in terms of sexual gratification, but Jacob–like Danny!–is interested in sex mostly in terms of a relationship. (Too bad Sarah and Joe couldn’t work out some kind of hate-fuckery situation.)
I dunno how good friends they really are, we have only seen them hang out a few times, and I don’t recall Jacob saying anything about them being friends.
I imagine they found a common interest, like started to hang out at the gym, or just bonded over the fact that both are hot (would be an important foundation for friendship in Joe’s book). It could even have been Roz who introduced them.
Basically when Danny get new friends he does it by being rescued from bullies, and being super attracted to them, and sharing dark secrets, and engaging in wacky missunderstandings, and learning new things about his sexuality. When Joe gets new friends they start hanging out together.
Joe has an odd way of making friends – at least according to Danny.
Jacob’s likely willing to talk about sex more with Joe than to Sarah.
Holy Toledo, Batman! Is Joe getting some character development?
Holy Toledo, Batman! Is Joe getting some character development?
“Never talking about shit” is not being a good friend, Joe. =/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/dan-it/
I’m starting to doubt the claim that when Joe has sex he brings that positive energy back into his relationship with Dan.
I mean, here he is, just had sex, but I’m not seeing any positive energy. Mostly he seems to be put out that he’s been asked to bring anything into “us” at all.
It would work if Danny followed Joes new script for friendship, but to Joe’s endless frustration Danny tries to stick to their old script.
Friendship on planet Joe
Joe: “I just had sex”
Danny: “Neato, how big were her knockers”
Joe: “They were great, and she had that whole strict school teacher going. I’m getting extra credit if you know what I mean”
Danny: “I sure do. High five bro.”
Joe: “High five. Hey, I met this eight over in the library who might be into a the nerdy crowd. Call her.”
Danny: “I sure will. Thanks, Joe”
Well put.
That’s Joe’s dream exactly, and he’s not gonna get it from Danny.
i think joe is more in the right here. i’ll bet he’s point out that if danny is bi, so what? then ask him to imagine the situation if ethan was a girl, then it’s less about him discovering some new side of himself and more him considering cheating on amber or dumping her for someone else.
I really don’t think Danny’s been considering cheating or anything like that. Just trying to come to terms with a confusing and uncomfortable aspect of himself.
Agreed. And keep in mind, it’s easier to avoid uncomfortable situations when you don’t have to share the SHOWER with someone you are attracted to. Or a Girlfriend. Can you imagine how hard that one must be?
Danny still wants Amber/amazigirl, but he’s constantly being pushed into situations where someone else sets him off against his will.
Danny has no idea that he’s bi. He doesn’t seem to know what “bi” is. He’s rethinking his entire identity.
If Ethan were a girl, then Danny would think “Hmmm, I’m attracted to her. Well, I’ll watch myself really carefully to not cross any lines, and put distance between me and my new friend if worst comes to worst, because I love Amber and would never hurt her.” I know this is factually true because it’s what he did with Amber when he thought he was only dating Amazi-Girl.
Man, I just realized, after so many years of making fun of Degrassi in middle and high school, I’m reading more or less he same level high dramatics in college
Degrassi? You knew NEIL DEGRASS TYSON AND YOU MADE FUN OF HIM!?!?! ARE YOU INSANE? THAT IS NEIL DEGRASS TYSON!!!!!
No.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrassi_High
Oh… then I have absolutely no idea what he’s talking about.
Man, I know panel 4 is leading to “Joe does actually care about Danny but he prefers not to show it because FEELS” but I still can’t stand him. If you have to put that much effort into letting your friends know you care about them, you need to rethink things.
why is joe so cute in this strip. he rivals a pug puppy in a tutu.
… okay thats a lie. a tiger. how about that. his adorableness level rivals a tiger. tiger adorableness levels are hard to beatbut do not reach the level of pug puppy tutu friends.
I can never quite figure out if Joe is a ‘jerk with a heart of gold’ or just a ‘jerk with a heart of jerk’.
This is going better than i thought it would.
So… I’m increasingly getting the impression that Joe’s hiding a lot of this ‘feelings’ stuff and his limitless amount of superficial sexcapades are his way of hiding from said “stuff.”
Welp. Guess I was wrong about Joe and his intentions. Oh wells. 🙂
I have a strange feeling now that Joe was alluding some emotion stuff that blew up in his face now. Wether it came from Danny or not should be interesting to find out.
for this one strip, i am also danny