“Christianity is the best way to cure gayness—just get on your knees, take a swig of wine, and accept the body of a man into your mouth.” -Stephen Colbert
Well, Israel was not a political entity at the time of Jesus’s birth, and Bethlehem is located within present-day occupied Palestine. I guess your point applies if you insist on spelling Judea the Roman way, as Iudaea, but that’s a bit of a stretch
“Iran” didn’t exist under that name either, and Iceland wasn’t even inhabited… I don’t think there’s any point other than Jesus not being born in Iran.
He was born somewhere in the Middle East (purportedly in Bethlehem, more probably in Nazareth) Either way, it wasn’t in Iran, partly because neither of those cities is in Persia (what is now Iran), and partly because Iran is next to the Middle East, not in the Middle East
Yeah, if he were an omnipotent kind of god there’d be an awful lot of smiting going on.
Though, it would be interesting to live in a world where bisexuality and homosexuality were the defaults (can there be more than one default?) and heterosexuality the rare, odd, unnatural one. But I think it would be interesting if you were able to pop back and forth between the two worlds in a fly-on-the-wall kind of way and see how the dynamic changes things for each society.
Vengefull god? I could probably accept more of that – think of all the messed up churches that would fall apart. And in both the dumbing verse and the walkyverse, those in need got someone to help them out. Like SERIOUSLY help them OUT. That’s pretty rare. And the social recluse here gets involved plenty when she shows up unexpectedly, with someone to back her up when Joyce gets crazy on her.
I did forget about the porn though. I would not want to take part in that. O.O (On that note, either of them would be a better god than YoToMoe!)
Plus, I already Damn God. “Damn You Willis” would just be more fun to say, especially if Willis gives me an appropriate backdrop when I do. Imagine saying it with Lightning! Or in read while holding someone close in a disturbed whisper, as the other person looks at you in fear! Or saying it with Willis right there, smugly setting up his stand!
…
Maybe I’ve read too much Shortpacked in too short a time… Oh well.
For those with as crowded a short-term memory as me, Joyce’s sleeping arrangements ‘this’ morning and only late last December. I was expecting to have to trawl back several months.
Based on Dorothy not knowing that one can be an atheist AND and asshole… I can only conclude that she’s never heard of Prof. Dawkins… or she has, but she hasn’t actually looked up his work to see that he’s a giant asshat
I think Dawkins is one of our generations most important scientific communicators – and a colossal asshole. My advice to people who are not familiar with him is to read a few of his earlier books and stay clear of everything else.
Examples of Dawkins “being and asshole” are usually taken *way* out of context. They’re typically cases in which the guy has spent, maybe, fifteen minutes carefully explaining why the Bible can’t be taken as proof of God’s existence and how that kind of ‘argument’ wouldn’t convince anyone who isn’t already a believer, and then someone asks “But what do you have to say about 1 Corinthians 8:6?”. If someone did that to me, I’d be like like “You’re fucking trolling me, aren’t you”.
Dawkins lost me during his documentary series, The Root of all Evil. There was a point where he was talking with an Anglican, who basically posited the God of the Gaps theory – that he accepted everything science says, agrees with evolution and the Big Bang – but maybe what’s happening is based on a complex plan God layed out and set in motion.
And that wasn’t good enough forDawkins – even the hint of a God, no matter how non-interventionist, no matter how much that God seems to be an expression of Chaos Theory, was too much of a compromise.
And to me, that’s just as bad as the fundamentalist right-wing bible thumpers. An absolutist position is an absolutist position no matter which side of the debate you’re on.
Most kinds of growth do. You favorite cloths no longer fit. Hair sporuts in uncomfortable places. The world begins to seem a strang and hostile place that doesn’t understand you….
Character growth: a period where the author makes the character’s life a living hell. During this time, the character tends to wonder why this couldn’t be accomplished with sunshine and bunnies instead.
How hard it is depends on if they are such due to biological or environmental/external outcome, the last may be subject to change over time depending on multiple factors including but not limited to personality, place of origin, current place, current lifestyle and so on…
biological reason on the other hand is alot more challenging to address with mention factors still at play but with less effects….
As I was going to St. Ives,
I met a man with forty wives.
Every wife had forty sacks,
Every sack had forty cats,
Every cat had forty kits.
Kits, cats, sacks and wives,
How many were going to St. Ives?
Well, it also doesn’t say that the man had his wives with him. They could be at home. Heck, even if they were, they might have left the sack with cats and kittens at home. Or maybe some of them came and some stayed home. We just don’t know.
If they’re all under the same roof, unless he lives in a mansion, I dare say that his own home would qualify as Hell. 40 wives, 1,600 full-grown cats, and 64,000 kittens. Dude’s probably buried under catshit most of the time.
Wait, shouldn’t the answer be zero? The question specifically was about kits, cats, sacks and wives. If none of those things are going to St. Ives then…none of them are going to St. Ives.
The actual question is “How many are going to St. Ives”. The fact it comes immediately after “Kits, cats, sacks, and wives” is irrelevant. It’s sort of like “There are three words in the English language. Two words that end in -gry are angry and hungry. What is the third word?”
But for sure we know at least ONE person IS going to St. Ives – the narrator. “As I was going to St. Ives…”
BUT as some noted, it’s NOT certain whether the man the narrator met was ALSO going to St. Ives; the obvious assumption is that people would meet on a road heading in opposite directions, but not everyone walks at the same speed – maybe the narrator caught up to ‘The Man’. (indeed, if he was bringing all his wives, sacks, cats & kits, I imagine he’d be travelling a little slower than most people)
But for the purposes of the rhyming word puzzle, yeah, meet means crossing paths.
I always preferred a ‘misleading word puzzle’ like this:
You are a bus driver.
You leave the depot with no passengers.
At the first stop, six people get on.
At the second stop, four people get on, and two people get off.
{etc etc etc}
At the eighth stop, no one gets on, and three people get off.
Now, how old is the bus driver?
I had always heard that riddle with seven, and I have to say I like that a lot more. If you calculate things with forty, you get…
40 Wives
1600 Sacks
64000 Cats
2.56 million Kittens
…all potentially heading to St. Ives.
No, I’m not going to accept that the answer that they must all be coming the other way, because anyone could easily overtake this giant caravan. Each of these poor women is hauling an 800 pound sack of animals with them.
Is there even any chance of the poor creatures surviving packed like that? If there is, does St. Ives have an amazing system of shelters with any hope of feeding these millions of animals? What exactly is the point of this shipment? Is it basically 32 tons of meat for a city of cat-eaters, or some sick terrorist attack planning to demoralize the place by covering it in millions of starving kittens, or what?
Aagh, why would anyone bring up such a horrible scenario in the first place? We were supposed to be talking about a comic about lesbians!
Well, obviously St. Ives doesn’t have shelters for all these animals – that’s why they are going the other way, which is how we know the answer is “one”
See, I assumed the answer was one because only the husband was going to St. Ives (I assumed the person telling the riddle met him on the bus or something) while the wives stayed home with the ~3 million cats. Just because the man has 40 wives doesn’t mean that they are with him right then, merely that they are marred to him.
The language of that riddle always made me assume it predated the industrial revolution. In fact for no particular reason I always mentally placed it around Chaucer (not that they spoke like that, I figured the language had been updated, but just not to fully modern)
The Wiki says that “The earliest known published version of it comes from a manuscript dated to around 1730 (but it differs in referring to “nine” rather than “seven” wives)” which is before the commonly listed start date of 1760 for the Industrial Revolution.
I can resolve this for once and for all: while we have been made aware of one man who is definitely going to St. Ives, one man who is on the same road and might be going to Saint Ives, and a large amount of wives, sacks, and cats that may or may not be accompanying the man, this only tells us part of the picture. This is a road they’re on, and there likely are other people on it going both directions. So there is no possible way to know how many are going to Saint Ives, other than to say it’s greater than or equal to one.
They could have met at a crossroads, so assuming it is the junction of only two roads the other person or people involved besides the speaker could have been going in any of 4 directions. Add roads to this crossroads and you, naturally, add to the number of directions he/they could have been going.
When I’ve heard this riddle before, I did always imagine them having met at a crossroads rather than on the same road going in opposite directions. I always assumed for some reason that the man with 40 wives was following the road that crossed the one going to St. Ives.
And really, this is the crux of it. The riddle’s about more than cats and sacks and even St. Ives. It’s about all of us in this mad stream of life, strangers in the maelstrom. All of us are going to St. Ives, and none of us are.
*At least* one. We have been given no indication of where the second man is going, if anywhere. We have not been told how many, if any, of the wives, and likewise with the sacks of cats, are currently accompanying the husband. We also don’t know if the original man going to St. Ives is bringing along any of wives, sacks, cats, or kittens.
LOL gotta love the Dumbing of Age comment section, where everything gets debated to almost no end. Even random brain teasers which were solved on the first post… 😛
Here’s 1 I was told…
2 legs walks into a room, sits on 3 legs, starts carving at 4 legs. Another 4 legs walks in, steals 1 leg, then runs from 3 legs.
A person walks into a room, sits on a stool, starts carving at roast pig. Another pig walks in, steals a drumstick, then runs from a person with a cane.
Person walks into a butcher’s cool room, starts carving up a pig or other meat animal, dog walks in, steals a leg then runs off as the person picks up the stool & throws it at the dog to scare it off…
So she’s going to figure out Becky’s situation soon enough, but the real drama bomb is that this could signal Dorothy learning about Joyce and Ethan’s relationship, and I doubt she’ll let Joyce off the hook so easily for that.
Is Joyce actually going to tell Dorothy about the Ethan thing? Because that’s a drama bomb that, while it needs to be dropped, may be more than Joyce is prepared for.
I don’t get that at all. If I say that a joke is tasteless you may agree or not agree. But why would you want to try to top the original one? To rub my face i the fact that I don’t decide what jokes you can tell? To mock my sensitivity? To prevent me from criticizing jokes for being tasteless in the future (“if you say something there will be two tasteless jokes, otherwise there will only be one, so you better shut up”)? Like, what’s your motivation here?
I am thick as a motherfucker it took me two reads to figure out what Dorothy was getting at.
But this is interesting actually. I’m excited to see this all play out! Remember Sarah? “You will lose your friends, and you will especially lose Dorothy.” Or something like that, definitely not an exact quote. I think there is a huge, overwhelming possibility that Dorothy will be PISSED THE FUCK OFF. But I ALSO think that Dorothy value’s hers and Joyce’s friendship, and will be more understanding because of Joyce’s new found realization that she should probably let her gay boyfriend go.
I sincerely hope so, all things considered. I mean, yeah, remaining in a relationship with Ethan was kind of shitty on Joyce’s part (even considering her background), but with everything that’s happened, and a possible realization that she needs to let Ethan go, I think Dorothy might be more understanding than Sarah thought.
Depends on how readily Joyce yields on the question of trying to change someone’s sexuality. Fortunately, Becky’s revelation already has Joyce questioning how she’s treating Ethan.
yes, I reeaaaally hope Joyce will present this as a “look, I think I did wrong, and this is hard for me” sort of issue, not “I want to *save* the gay guy and accept the lesbian friend” sort of issue
And not only that… remember the confrontation with Amazigirl when she was found to be drawing the penises (peni?)… Amazigirl figured out that part of the reason Joyce was dating Ethan was because he was ‘safe’… if Dorothy is presented with the same information, she might be a bit more willing to forgive Joyce’s dating a gay guy.
I think Dorothy will be understanding about the Ethan situation if Joyce manages to be honest and to acknowledge she’s been doing the wrong thing. Keep in mind that Sarah, for all her good qualities, tends to have a cynical, pessimistic view of others, partly due to her personality and a large part due to her experiences the previous year. So the fact that Sarah assumes Dorothy would reject Joyce over this, doesn’t mean Dorothy actually would.
The conviction that homosexuality can be ‘cured’ has brought an awful lot of unnecessary suffering. Joyce would never resort to the draconian measures that have been employed in pursuit of this goal, but she might unwittingly push people into the hands of those do.
Even leaving aside the question of whether it’s okay to try to convert a gay guy if he’s okay with it… neither of them are okay with their relationship. Joyce has been pressuring Ethan to advance their physical relationship past the platonic cuddles Ethan is comfortable with, and Ethan’s been flirting with every cute guy-presenting person he sees, while being revolted and terrified by Joyce’s advances.
And on top of that, Ethan has an ex-girlfriend for whom he still has much deeper nonsexual feelings than he’s ever had for Joyce, and actually said right in front of Joyce’s face that he broke up with Amber because he cares too much about her, with the implication that he can date Joyce because he doesn’t really give a shit about her, which upset Joyce tremendously. And while Amber and Joyce have hugged and made up, Ethan and Joyce have never addressed that, just swept it under the rug.
If Ethan wants a beard and Joyce is willing to do that, that’s one thing, but he really needs to make clear to her that that’s all it is and all it will ever be.
I’m pretty sure the whole point is that Ethan desperately wants something (“normality”) that is incompatible with who he actually is (and in my opinion illusory) … (note I’m using his definition of normal) …Joyce is similarly conflicted with recent attempted rape on top of it …
So, while their relationship is more than a little screwed up I don’t see that it is really that horrible … they both know he’s gay and for now are both ignorant and self-deluded enough to pretend that that can change …
They can be quite a bit smaller than a house cat. For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parvicursor might have been about 15 inches long, that is with bird-like build and a long tail. Others might be even smaller but are known from juvenile bones, so final size is uncertain.
The Bee hummingbird is thought to be the smallest living bird dinosaur. At ≤2 g and ≤ 6 cm it is often mistaken for a bee (however it is a giant compared to the smallest known vertebrate a ≤ 8 mm frog) …
Q: How much bound, round ground could a bound round ground hound hound if a bound round ground hound could be found bound to hound bound round ground for a round pound of bound ground round?
A: As much bound, round ground as any bound round ground hound bound to hound bound round ground around would hound, if a bound round ground hound could be found around bound to hound bound round ground for a round pound of bound ground round.
THAT’S NOT A FACT THAT’S A QUESTION. QUESTIONS ARE NOT FACTS. ANSWERS ARE FACTS. IT’S IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND I JUST GOT ALL CAPSLOCK FOR THE STUPIDEST REASON EVER…. so, sorry about that. I’ll see myself out.
Well, a question that lead to a answer regarding a fact can be considered a fact due to the question is connected to a fact, thus, questions can be considered a pre-fact and so on and so on…
Is there one thing i have learned since i was little is that pretty much everything can be turned into a word or a sentence that may benefit the user, case in point, “lawyers” 😉
Fact, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck; if a woodchuck could chuck wood?.
Urgh, Daniel the Human tortures me with this, I can’t keep up with how fast he says then answers it…
…Which is why I’m taking over Screwball’s Gravatar to answer. Daniel Here, only took a few recitings for him to cave in… }:D
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck; if a woodchuck could chuck wood? As much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.
Came up with it when I was 13/14ish, taught it to my little sister to help train her brain, it just rolls off the tongue easily if said in the same manner as the original…
Whoa. I did not expect Joyce to get to this point so fast. It’s nerve-wracking, because I think the whole “I’ve been trying to turn a gay guy straight” deal seems like the thing that would be most likely to put her friendship with Dorothy on the rocks. And their friendship (not the ‘ship, really, just the friend thing) matters more to me than just about any other DoA relationship. I can’t stand the thought of Willis Willising it up.
But, again, Joyce owning up to it so soon, even obliquely, is… a good sign? Maybe? Please? I have a DYW on the tip of my tongue, and I don’t want to have to use it.
Dorothy is super bummed i the last panel because if Joyce is in lesbians with her best friend it would mean that Walky was right about something that Dorothy was wrong about, and that just can’t be.
Joking aside, I’m impressed how Dorothy is gently easing her friends into letting her help them. She teases a bit but she makes abundantly clear that she is on Joyce’s side.
Just clarifying, that part about Mike in my comment was sarcasm. In my opinion, Mike has a lot of flaws: he’s manipulative and sadistic and strangles small mammals (probably).
Oh, upon further research I think Mike seems more like someone with antisocial personality disorder. I didn’t really know what sadism was when I wrote that.
She’s nearly perfect, yeah. Especially those freckles. Rowr!
The only thing that she did that strikes me as questionable is breaking up with Dan and then starting a relationship up with a guy with even less lofty goals, but Walky would be an amazing First Dude.
The important difference between Danny and Walky is that Walky has a goal: It’s to goof off. I don’t subscribe to the comments saying that all Danny ever wanted was to cling to Dorothy for the rest of his life, but he prioritized their relationship far too much at the expense of going to a better school. I mean, he’s 18. It’s okay to be dumb about relationships, but “be with Dorothy” should not be the only thing on his mind. Walky’s goal is to goof off and watch cartoons, which isn’t what I’d call “lofty”, but at least it’s something he wants to do for himself, so Dorothy can date him and have fun without worrying that she’s dragging him away from better opportunities.
If you read the strips, it seems quite obvious to me that “despising his girlfriend’s most cherished dreams” is what Danny is guilty of, and the reason why anyone should have dumped him (yes, staying with a partner that does this is bad for you)…
I don’t think Danny meant anything that malicious. He didn’t understand the depths of her ambition, and wrongly assumed he would matter more to her than her future. It’s why he followed her to IU instead of going to Purdue.
I mean, that’s pretty bad, because it shows a lack of respect both for Dorothy and himself, but I’m not going to guilt the kid forever because he said something stupid to his girlfriend.
Did he really “despise her dreams”? When Dorothy talked about being president, Danny suggested he could hang around the oval office and update the software on the presidential computer (or something like that).
Sounds clingy, but not someone who doesn’t want the other person to be successful.
Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall any instances of Danny despising Dorothy’s dream of becoming President. At worst, he seemed guilty of wishfully thinking that Dorothy might decide to stay at IU.
I don’t think Dorothy needed a reason to dump Danny, other than the relationship just wasn’t working for her. (And beyond that he was being dismissive of her dreams, and also creepily clingy.) And even if she dumped him to pick up another dude with the same problems, it’s not really a slight on anybody but herself.
But I do think it was pretty jerkish of her to wait to dump him until after he already followed her to college. I don’t know the details, but she could have been clearer as soon as he started talking about them at IU together forever. It does seem a bit like she was leading him on.
Exactly! Dorothy decided to end the relationship with Danny [because of reasons]. Then she decided to peruse a relationship with Walky [because of reasons]. The reasons are nobody’s business, and except for stringing Danny along she did nothing wrong (and she herself admitted that was a bad thing).
It’s important to remember that Dorothy was never intended to be one of the lead characters of the series. We probably weren’t meant to think too hard about why Dorothy just never ended things, and the break-up is an establishing of Danny’s flaws and him making a huge mistake, whereupon a few pages later he starts crushing on Amazi-Girl. It was mostly just to set up Danny’s main foibles.
At the same time, though, I think it’s important to remember that, by all accounts, Dorothy was pretty happy with Danny (even saying outright that she loved him, not to mention they dated for two years. If Dorothy was unhappy with him in High School she would have ended things), but she felt she had to focus on her studies and career, while also not wanting Danny to base his life around hers. Things didn’t get ugly until Danny danned things up with her that she exploded at him and stormed off, and their few interactions since then show that Dorothy doesn’t really hold any ill will towards him and feels a little guilty for how things played out.
An off-by-one error made me calculate (some weeks ago) the day of Walky’s wacky wager would be today, but actually that happened on saturday of parents weekend, so there is still one day left for Joyce turning into a lesbean!
Eh, just because someone is your best friend doesn’t mean you are their best friend. It would be unlikely for the asymmetry to be great, but a small one can exist just fine.
My best friend is Lynn, but I am not her best friend.
It’s like the inverse of the situation where the amount of people you know is compared to the amount of people known by the people you know.
The people you know know more people than you do, on average, because it is more likely that such people know you.
So it’s possible that the amount of people who consider you their best friend is greater than the amount of people you consider your best friend, considering we’re operating under the standard definition of “best”.
*slow clap gains momentum and turns into thunderous applause. the applause shakes the foundation of the theatre until the roof collapses, crushing all the clapping people… dammit. this was supposed to be a compliment. maybe I’ll just go with +1 instead.*
Joyce, you seem to have freudian slipped up. penIs that what you really meant, or was there some mother way you wanted to spinster this? Cause lesbian-est, it’s not looking very good for you right now.
Don’t worry Joyce, you’re still technically in the clear.
Person A can be best friends with Person B, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Person B is best friends with Person A. Person B might be best friends with Person C. By definition, there should be only one “best” friend, but it doesn’t always have to be a reciprocated relationship.
Hmm, but maybe we’d then have to draw a line between the phrase “best friend” and “best friends.” Perhaps “best friends” would imply reciprocity based on the pluralization of the word friends.
So, Person A’s best friend could be Person B, but Person B’s best friend might be Person C. However, if Person A is best friends with Person B, then maybe Person B has to be best friends with Person A.
Dorothy really annoys me- more and more every time she shows up. “TELL ME YOUR SECRETS. TELL THEM TO ME. TELL ME WHAT’S BOTHERING YOU BECAUSE WE ARE FRIEEEEENDS.”
Ugh. If someone wants to tell you why they’re upset, they will. Leave people to feel their feels in peace.
Dorothy gives Joyce an opening to talk about what’s bothering her and Joyce leaps to it. She expresses worry that Dorothy will think less about her for it and Dorothy does what she can to defuse to situation and show that she is on Joyce’s side.
Joyce is utterly incapable of hiding her emotions. For reference, panel two is what she looks like when she doesn’t want to talk about something.
It wasn’t just Joyce. She outright admitted that she was willing to manipulate Walky with sex because she has no idea how to sit back and let people deal with their problems on their own.
showing someone that you care about their issues and will not judge them provides a safe space for Joyce to open up, but I fail to see how Dorothy is being pushy here.
man, I’m kind of glad that Joyce isn’t just going to talk about Becky but is actually going to address the thing she has going with Ethan. Especially after Sarah warned her that she could lose Dorothy as a friend for that exact reason.
But also lol at this page, flustered Joyce is one of the best Joyce’s haa
Joyce… Joyce, you precious little sheltered fundie baby.
No sarcasm, I really just think she’s adorable in her awkward fumbling way of trying to function socially in the secular world. Like a kitten that’s just opened its eyes and isn’t quite sure how depth perception works yet but is tottering around everywhere trying to get into everything and falling on its face.
I am adding this to my spreadsheet of data concerning the “hypothetical best friend who is actually the person asking the question” strategy of seeking advice. It will go into the substantial “it just doesn’t work” column.
I have not yet reached statistical significance, but preliminary results imply that it just doesn’t work.
? I think the hypertext is about atheists in general, not Dotty is particular. I don’t see how Dorothy is being an asshole here, especially to Joyce, who’s different (an sometimes hostile) set of beliefs she’s so far managed to treat with a lot of respect
Okay, I’ve read through your READ BEFORE POSTING, and now I’m just itching to use ‘strawman’ correctly. I’ll probably have to wait for a political catfight to show up in the comments.
@Malasdair, I was wondering that too. Maybe he meant to refer to a different rule. But even if he did, I can’t imagine any particular rule that is specifically applicable in this situation that hasn’t been much more applicable in other, more controversial comic strips. This comic isn’t particularly controversial, nor does it seem incendiary to anybody in any way.
I don’t think it has anything to do with the strip itself; I believe there was a spate of firsting when this strip posted. I didn’t see it, but I saw what looked like some of the residue before it got cleaned up. And there’ve been some people in the comments for the last few strips talking about wanting to beat Jen Aside to the first comment.
i was getting to read that im jsut starting that continuity but i dont mind ill forget by time i reach there last i checked sal kidnapped joyce. but yep pretending to have sex with a boy for others approval is a sure sign
Am I the only one reading this situation as possibly leading into Dorothy (temporarily – a couple of strips or so) believing that Joyce is telling her that Walky is gay and Dorothy has been unintentionally trying to change him, thus explaining why Walky was acting funny in the last 2 strips?
Daisy’s having a hard time with that in this comic, though – her sexual orientation (and frustration) has shown up in almost all strips that she’s appeared in so far.
Thanks for #6 in the FAQs, by the way. When I saw that Dina’s last name was “Sarazu,” I started mentally applying Japanese pronunciation, mainly the “silent vowel” thing, and thought, “Oh, geez, is it ‘Die-na?’ Is her name really pronounced ‘Die-na Sah-raz?’ Like ‘dinosaurs?'”
Not that there would be anything wrong with that, it’s just nice to see that it’s not the case.
Considering ‘read before posting’, THANK YOU for number 6. That’d been bugging me since forever. The rest is basically a long version of Wil Wheaton’s law, right? (also in my head Dina has the same voice as BMO)
Upon rereading, how can Joyce possibly get out of this without outing Ethan and outing herself as Ethan’s beard?
Even if the “best friend” alibi wasn’t so paper thin, Becky’s practically broadcasting her lesbianism on national TV (and Walky can vouch for it), and Dorothy’s suggested that Ethan might gay before. I don’t know how Joyce expected to get out of this one without Dorothy putting two and two together.
Joyce may be prepared to come out of the ‘terrible relationship ideas’ closet. Yeah, it’ll mean outing Ethan to Dorothy but I doubt Joyce really grasps that outing people even to someone you trust is a major no-no.
Technically, the “she” in “she’s a lesbian” is ambiguous. Joyce could be saying “my best friend’s best friend found out that my best friend is a lesbian and now she feels really bad because she’s also dating Ethan.”
Or she could just backtrack and say her older sister is the one dating Ethan or something.
And this would later lead to Joyce’s discovery that she does in fact have an older sister.
I honestly give Joyce a lot of slack here. I’ve been exactly where she was in terms of views on life, and it can skew your priorities and how you relate with other people.
The good thing is she feels bad about it. That’s a sign that she’s experiencing personal growth rather than simply being defensive about a decision she ‘knows’ is correct.
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Poor Joyce
Fundamentalists are friends, not food.
Because fundamentalism is like kuru? Also, fiends doesn’t have an ‘r’ …
fundies is an anagram of fuiends
or “u fiends!”
It was staring us in the face all along! (short form of face used intentionally)
Or “sin feud”
Are you sure? How many fundies have you tasted?
Of course, they taste terrible.
Clowns on the other hand, taste funny. 😀
Is this what they mean when they say ‘biting satire’?
Something like that. ^_^
It’s not gay as long as your best friend’s best friend isn’t you, Joyce. xD
…or something like that. 😛
GIRL TRON 4 lyfe
Easy, just have the lesbian date the gay guy. Two birds with one stone!
Suuuure, cuz that will obviously work>_<
“Christianity is the best way to cure gayness—just get on your knees, take a swig of wine, and accept the body of a man into your mouth.” -Stephen Colbert
Gladly….
As long it got a decent size and he actually look decent;)
Every picture of Jesus I see is him being ripped as fuck. Could use a tan though…
Well he was born in Iran originally so he would have had a bit of one surely.
Iran?
Iran, Israel, Iceland, who can keep all these I-countries straight?
Well, Israel was not a political entity at the time of Jesus’s birth, and Bethlehem is located within present-day occupied Palestine. I guess your point applies if you insist on spelling Judea the Roman way, as Iudaea, but that’s a bit of a stretch
“Iran” didn’t exist under that name either, and Iceland wasn’t even inhabited… I don’t think there’s any point other than Jesus not being born in Iran.
I for Iraq,
I as in Ireland!
(to the tune of “I am a Rock” by Simon & Garfunkle)
(you have to pronounce Iraq as e-rock rather than i-rock or i-rack, ie, correctly)
He was born somewhere in the Middle East (purportedly in Bethlehem, more probably in Nazareth) Either way, it wasn’t in Iran, partly because neither of those cities is in Persia (what is now Iran), and partly because Iran is next to the Middle East, not in the Middle East
Actually, that’s not a half bad idea, if played right. Becky and Ethan can go on double dates with other gay couples and try to find a matching pair!
My God…BRILLIANT!
Which one is that? The ones I’ve heard about range from doofus to inane toddler …
Look at your God, now look back at Me. Sadly, your God isn’t Me.
Or Willis. Our god isn’t Willis either. Sadly, even It’s Walky!s Ruth might think that an improvement.
Do you really want your god to be Willis?
I mean, he’s a great comic creator and all, but do you really want to curse god as often as we scream “DAMN YOU WILLIS?”
And you can be damned sure he’ll be a vengeful god, looking at his takedowns of haters in the comment section.
“Reality” by David Willis would be a scary place. But I’d read the pornographiques. 😉
Yeah, if he were an omnipotent kind of god there’d be an awful lot of smiting going on.
Though, it would be interesting to live in a world where bisexuality and homosexuality were the defaults (can there be more than one default?) and heterosexuality the rare, odd, unnatural one. But I think it would be interesting if you were able to pop back and forth between the two worlds in a fly-on-the-wall kind of way and see how the dynamic changes things for each society.
Vengefull god? I could probably accept more of that – think of all the messed up churches that would fall apart. And in both the dumbing verse and the walkyverse, those in need got someone to help them out. Like SERIOUSLY help them OUT. That’s pretty rare. And the social recluse here gets involved plenty when she shows up unexpectedly, with someone to back her up when Joyce gets crazy on her.
I did forget about the porn though. I would not want to take part in that. O.O (On that note, either of them would be a better god than YoToMoe!)
Plus, I already Damn God. “Damn You Willis” would just be more fun to say, especially if Willis gives me an appropriate backdrop when I do. Imagine saying it with Lightning! Or in read while holding someone close in a disturbed whisper, as the other person looks at you in fear! Or saying it with Willis right there, smugly setting up his stand!
…
Maybe I’ve read too much Shortpacked in too short a time… Oh well.
i don’t think becky wants that stone
I dunno Alt Text, when a person says their best friend’s best friend is a lesbian, Dorothy made a pretty reasonable conclusion
Honestly if I didn’t know the context I’d react the same way as Dotty
Dorothy: “You’ve got a side girl? Why, aren’t I good enough for you?”
“You ARE cheating on me!!!”
“Dorothy, no! I swear, it’s not like that!”
For those with as crowded a short-term memory as me, Joyce’s sleeping arrangements ‘this’ morning and only late last December. I was expecting to have to trawl back several months.
Thanks. I did remember that Becky was there, but I had forgotten about that wake-up scene.
I didn’t think the alt text was calling Dorothy an asshole, but rather, it was a general statement to Dorothy that atheism doesn’t exclude assholeism.
Based on Dorothy not knowing that one can be an atheist AND and asshole… I can only conclude that she’s never heard of Prof. Dawkins… or she has, but she hasn’t actually looked up his work to see that he’s a giant asshat
Dawkins only looks like an asshole to people who think that telling them they’re wrong is assholish.
Can’t speak to Dawkins’ case in specific, but there are both assholish and non-assholish ways of telling people they’re wrong.
Or people who think misogyny makes you an asshole.
I think Dawkins is one of our generations most important scientific communicators – and a colossal asshole. My advice to people who are not familiar with him is to read a few of his earlier books and stay clear of everything else.
Haha that’s true of a lot of writers…
Examples of Dawkins “being and asshole” are usually taken *way* out of context. They’re typically cases in which the guy has spent, maybe, fifteen minutes carefully explaining why the Bible can’t be taken as proof of God’s existence and how that kind of ‘argument’ wouldn’t convince anyone who isn’t already a believer, and then someone asks “But what do you have to say about 1 Corinthians 8:6?”. If someone did that to me, I’d be like like “You’re fucking trolling me, aren’t you”.
Dawkins lost me during his documentary series, The Root of all Evil. There was a point where he was talking with an Anglican, who basically posited the God of the Gaps theory – that he accepted everything science says, agrees with evolution and the Big Bang – but maybe what’s happening is based on a complex plan God layed out and set in motion.
And that wasn’t good enough forDawkins – even the hint of a God, no matter how non-interventionist, no matter how much that God seems to be an expression of Chaos Theory, was too much of a compromise.
And to me, that’s just as bad as the fundamentalist right-wing bible thumpers. An absolutist position is an absolutist position no matter which side of the debate you’re on.
“An absolutist position is an absolutist position…”
Sure, yes, absolutely.
Here are a few examples that are not taken out of context.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/richard-dawkins-sexist-atheists-bad-name
I have no problem with his attitude on religion, but he screws up on issues like feminism.
If she looked up his work as in reading his books, she’d likely think highly of him. His Twitter feed, perhaps not so much.
Oh, no. That was a shot across Dorothy’s bow.
+1; I interpreted the alt-text as referring to the second panel, not as a second punchline or anything.
I certainly hope it’s possible or I have to rethink my identity.
Oh Joyce. Character growth sucks, doesn’t it?
Most kinds of growth do. You favorite cloths no longer fit. Hair sporuts in uncomfortable places. The world begins to seem a strang and hostile place that doesn’t understand you….
Character growth: a period where the author makes the character’s life a living hell. During this time, the character tends to wonder why this couldn’t be accomplished with sunshine and bunnies instead.
Sometimes it can be. Sometimes that’s what causes the growth in the first place: too much sunshine and bunnies.
RE-contextualize…love that thought.
I came into this conversation knowing what was wrong now I’m coming out confused as fuck.
Apparently Joyce is coming out, too.
+1, well-played.
Very nice, would read again… 😉
Relevant to her floundering explanation is this. Her current problem is this. Overall, she’s just this, and isn’t that always a struggle?
Dorothy is one of the cutest characters in the comic, consistently. This continues to be true with her facial expressions here.
Agreed.
Yes! Although it’s hard for me to find anything topping that one: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/plain/
Technically speaking, yeah your probably should, Dotty. Either way you’re kinda right.
Trying to change a gay guy into a lesbian is bloody difficult that’s for certain.
Changing him to friend on the other hand would be a pretty good idea (not best friend, though, as he’d compete with Becky and Dorothy).
How hard it is depends on if they are such due to biological or environmental/external outcome, the last may be subject to change over time depending on multiple factors including but not limited to personality, place of origin, current place, current lifestyle and so on…
biological reason on the other hand is alot more challenging to address with mention factors still at play but with less effects….
Roz Kaveny followed that trajectory. “I stopped dating guys when I stopped being one.”
Trying to turn gay guys into Dina is physiologically impossible.
No matter how much you might wish to…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idhxrZKlLvc
SUUUUUUUUUUURE they are.
As I was going to St. Ives,
I met a man with forty wives.
Every wife had forty sacks,
Every sack had forty cats,
Every cat had forty kits.
Kits, cats, sacks and wives,
How many were going to St. Ives?
One!
Good! You win a cookie.
A lot of people get so caught trying to calculate the answer that they fail to notice that the man with 40 wives wasn’t going to St. Ives.
Well, it also doesn’t say that the man had his wives with him. They could be at home. Heck, even if they were, they might have left the sack with cats and kittens at home. Or maybe some of them came and some stayed home. We just don’t know.
Of course he isn’t. Dude has 40 wives! He’s going to Hell.
If they’re all under the same roof, unless he lives in a mansion, I dare say that his own home would qualify as Hell. 40 wives, 1,600 full-grown cats, and 64,000 kittens. Dude’s probably buried under catshit most of the time.
Whoops, bungled my calculation. As pointed out below, the cat statistics are MUCH worse.
Doesn’t matter, I was still doubled over laughing at the visualization, and I’m still in pain as I type this… (ouch.. giggle)
That’s as much as four tens.
And that’s terrible.
We don’t know that he WAS’NT on his way. Only that they met. The man could have sat next to him on the plane.
True, true! Or on pilgrimage!
seemed to have beat me to the punch
Ah, but below, Kelly got there before either of us. =)
doesnt say where he was going just that he was in your area on the way to St. Ives
Maybe he was, and narrator simply caught up with him. Though Kelly still has a point.
Wait, shouldn’t the answer be zero? The question specifically was about kits, cats, sacks and wives. If none of those things are going to St. Ives then…none of them are going to St. Ives.
scince it said said them you should count out ‘I’ and none of them are specified where they were going
The actual question is “How many are going to St. Ives”. The fact it comes immediately after “Kits, cats, sacks, and wives” is irrelevant. It’s sort of like “There are three words in the English language. Two words that end in -gry are angry and hungry. What is the third word?”
‘language’ 😛
But for sure we know at least ONE person IS going to St. Ives – the narrator. “As I was going to St. Ives…”
BUT as some noted, it’s NOT certain whether the man the narrator met was ALSO going to St. Ives; the obvious assumption is that people would meet on a road heading in opposite directions, but not everyone walks at the same speed – maybe the narrator caught up to ‘The Man’. (indeed, if he was bringing all his wives, sacks, cats & kits, I imagine he’d be travelling a little slower than most people)
But for the purposes of the rhyming word puzzle, yeah, meet means crossing paths.
I always preferred a ‘misleading word puzzle’ like this:
You are a bus driver.
You leave the depot with no passengers.
At the first stop, six people get on.
At the second stop, four people get on, and two people get off.
{etc etc etc}
At the eighth stop, no one gets on, and three people get off.
Now, how old is the bus driver?
🙂
I had always heard that riddle with seven, and I have to say I like that a lot more. If you calculate things with forty, you get…
40 Wives
1600 Sacks
64000 Cats
2.56 million Kittens
…all potentially heading to St. Ives.
No, I’m not going to accept that the answer that they must all be coming the other way, because anyone could easily overtake this giant caravan. Each of these poor women is hauling an 800 pound sack of animals with them.
Is there even any chance of the poor creatures surviving packed like that? If there is, does St. Ives have an amazing system of shelters with any hope of feeding these millions of animals? What exactly is the point of this shipment? Is it basically 32 tons of meat for a city of cat-eaters, or some sick terrorist attack planning to demoralize the place by covering it in millions of starving kittens, or what?
Aagh, why would anyone bring up such a horrible scenario in the first place? We were supposed to be talking about a comic about lesbians!
Oops, sorry, I mean 16 not 32. 16 tons of compressed cats and kittens this insane polygamist is having his wives haul to or from St. Ives.
Oh God I love you.
Well, obviously St. Ives doesn’t have shelters for all these animals – that’s why they are going the other way, which is how we know the answer is “one”
See, I assumed the answer was one because only the husband was going to St. Ives (I assumed the person telling the riddle met him on the bus or something) while the wives stayed home with the ~3 million cats. Just because the man has 40 wives doesn’t mean that they are with him right then, merely that they are marred to him.
A bus????
The language of that riddle always made me assume it predated the industrial revolution. In fact for no particular reason I always mentally placed it around Chaucer (not that they spoke like that, I figured the language had been updated, but just not to fully modern)
The Wiki says that “The earliest known published version of it comes from a manuscript dated to around 1730 (but it differs in referring to “nine” rather than “seven” wives)” which is before the commonly listed start date of 1760 for the Industrial Revolution.
This is what happens when you involves engineers, math, or other academic people xD
I’m prepared to bet money or chocolate that it was an mathematician who wrote that riddle to begin with.
Ofc it was, they make them so they can inflict mental pain on other people without having to be there themselves;)
Mathematicians generally can’t relate to real life, therefore nor seeing how unrealistic it would be to have this many wives and cats.
I can resolve this for once and for all: while we have been made aware of one man who is definitely going to St. Ives, one man who is on the same road and might be going to Saint Ives, and a large amount of wives, sacks, and cats that may or may not be accompanying the man, this only tells us part of the picture. This is a road they’re on, and there likely are other people on it going both directions. So there is no possible way to know how many are going to Saint Ives, other than to say it’s greater than or equal to one.
They could have met at a crossroads, so assuming it is the junction of only two roads the other person or people involved besides the speaker could have been going in any of 4 directions. Add roads to this crossroads and you, naturally, add to the number of directions he/they could have been going.
When I’ve heard this riddle before, I did always imagine them having met at a crossroads rather than on the same road going in opposite directions. I always assumed for some reason that the man with 40 wives was following the road that crossed the one going to St. Ives.
And really, this is the crux of it. The riddle’s about more than cats and sacks and even St. Ives. It’s about all of us in this mad stream of life, strangers in the maelstrom. All of us are going to St. Ives, and none of us are.
You (like a lot of other commenters) have re-contextualised the question.
The original question (with context) was “Kits, cats, sacks and wives,
How many were going to St. Ives?”
We do not know if the narrator is a man or a woman.
Only if the narrator himself is a wive we know the answer is “at least one”.
As the narrator might be a man or a unmarried woman, the answer zero also is possible.
Of course this assumes the narrator is human, which is not the case if you believe the username or avatar.
He’d sworn to bring a plague of rats upon St. Ives for having wronged him. His messenger misheard him, however.
*At least* one. We have been given no indication of where the second man is going, if anywhere. We have not been told how many, if any, of the wives, and likewise with the sacks of cats, are currently accompanying the husband. We also don’t know if the original man going to St. Ives is bringing along any of wives, sacks, cats, or kittens.
There are at least three St Ives in England alone, so they could have been going in opposite directions and still all going to St Ives.
You win
LOL gotta love the Dumbing of Age comment section, where everything gets debated to almost no end. Even random brain teasers which were solved on the first post… 😛
Here’s 1 I was told…
2 legs walks into a room, sits on 3 legs, starts carving at 4 legs. Another 4 legs walks in, steals 1 leg, then runs from 3 legs.
What just happened?
A person walks into a room, sits on a stool, starts carving at roast pig. Another pig walks in, steals a drumstick, then runs from a person with a cane.
Surprisingly close actually, might give it a bit more time before answering…
Games like word puzzles and chess are not exactly my strong points even if I’m getting a bit better with word puzzles.
Really? You were really close tho…
Person walks into a butcher’s cool room, starts carving up a pig or other meat animal, dog walks in, steals a leg then runs off as the person picks up the stool & throws it at the dog to scare it off…
“Lemme try again so it’s not quite as obvious a lie.”
Oh my goodness Joyce
Obfuscation backfire!
Walked into that one, Joycey-poo….
So she’s going to figure out Becky’s situation soon enough, but the real drama bomb is that this could signal Dorothy learning about Joyce and Ethan’s relationship, and I doubt she’ll let Joyce off the hook so easily for that.
Is Joyce actually going to tell Dorothy about the Ethan thing? Because that’s a drama bomb that, while it needs to be dropped, may be more than Joyce is prepared for.
I’m pretty sure Dorothy has enough information to infer the Ethan thing by the next strip. And you’re damn right that drama bomb needs to be dropped.
She’s trying to distance herself from it, but, yeah, looks like that’s what she’s doing. I wasn’t expecting her to get there yet.
Joyce has told Dotty about the Ethan thing at this very moment!
The “This best friend” is so cliched and paper-thin as disguise that Dorothy already concluded that Joyce is talking about herself (see last panel).
Joyce is a double negative lesbian which means she is a lesbian, NO, ABORT!!!
there’s a 1984 doublethink joke in here somewhere i just know it.
Double-plus-un-hetero
That is true. Having to abort is very uncommon among lesbians.
Thats’… kinda tasteless.
I don’t know, if you ate an abortion, you would definitely notice a taste, I’m sure of it.
I don’t get that at all. If I say that a joke is tasteless you may agree or not agree. But why would you want to try to top the original one? To rub my face i the fact that I don’t decide what jokes you can tell? To mock my sensitivity? To prevent me from criticizing jokes for being tasteless in the future (“if you say something there will be two tasteless jokes, otherwise there will only be one, so you better shut up”)? Like, what’s your motivation here?
My M.O is to go for the pun/joke/quip whenever I spot an opening.
If you wanted sensitivity and good taste you should have picked a different comment section.
OK Joyce, you lost me there.
I am thick as a motherfucker it took me two reads to figure out what Dorothy was getting at.
But this is interesting actually. I’m excited to see this all play out! Remember Sarah? “You will lose your friends, and you will especially lose Dorothy.” Or something like that, definitely not an exact quote. I think there is a huge, overwhelming possibility that Dorothy will be PISSED THE FUCK OFF. But I ALSO think that Dorothy value’s hers and Joyce’s friendship, and will be more understanding because of Joyce’s new found realization that she should probably let her gay boyfriend go.
That IS the realization right? Right Joyce?
bleh “values” not “value’s”
I sincerely hope so, all things considered. I mean, yeah, remaining in a relationship with Ethan was kind of shitty on Joyce’s part (even considering her background), but with everything that’s happened, and a possible realization that she needs to let Ethan go, I think Dorothy might be more understanding than Sarah thought.
Depends on how readily Joyce yields on the question of trying to change someone’s sexuality. Fortunately, Becky’s revelation already has Joyce questioning how she’s treating Ethan.
yes, I reeaaaally hope Joyce will present this as a “look, I think I did wrong, and this is hard for me” sort of issue, not “I want to *save* the gay guy and accept the lesbian friend” sort of issue
And not only that… remember the confrontation with Amazigirl when she was found to be drawing the penises (peni?)… Amazigirl figured out that part of the reason Joyce was dating Ethan was because he was ‘safe’… if Dorothy is presented with the same information, she might be a bit more willing to forgive Joyce’s dating a gay guy.
I think Dorothy will be understanding about the Ethan situation if Joyce manages to be honest and to acknowledge she’s been doing the wrong thing. Keep in mind that Sarah, for all her good qualities, tends to have a cynical, pessimistic view of others, partly due to her personality and a large part due to her experiences the previous year. So the fact that Sarah assumes Dorothy would reject Joyce over this, doesn’t mean Dorothy actually would.
If Ethan and Joyce re okay with it, who is anyone else to tell them it’s wrong? Hasn’t the rel world had enough of that?
Well, it is wrong, and also they’re not okay.
So who Dorothy is would be somebody smart enough to know that. Which is rather a low bar.
The conviction that homosexuality can be ‘cured’ has brought an awful lot of unnecessary suffering. Joyce would never resort to the draconian measures that have been employed in pursuit of this goal, but she might unwittingly push people into the hands of those do.
I take heart that Joyce will eventually learn this and become a better Joyce as a result. Character growth/autobiography, baby!
+1
Even leaving aside the question of whether it’s okay to try to convert a gay guy if he’s okay with it… neither of them are okay with their relationship. Joyce has been pressuring Ethan to advance their physical relationship past the platonic cuddles Ethan is comfortable with, and Ethan’s been flirting with every cute guy-presenting person he sees, while being revolted and terrified by Joyce’s advances.
And on top of that, Ethan has an ex-girlfriend for whom he still has much deeper nonsexual feelings than he’s ever had for Joyce, and actually said right in front of Joyce’s face that he broke up with Amber because he cares too much about her, with the implication that he can date Joyce because he doesn’t really give a shit about her, which upset Joyce tremendously. And while Amber and Joyce have hugged and made up, Ethan and Joyce have never addressed that, just swept it under the rug.
If Ethan wants a beard and Joyce is willing to do that, that’s one thing, but he really needs to make clear to her that that’s all it is and all it will ever be.
I’m pretty sure the whole point is that Ethan desperately wants something (“normality”) that is incompatible with who he actually is (and in my opinion illusory) … (note I’m using his definition of normal) …Joyce is similarly conflicted with recent attempted rape on top of it …
So, while their relationship is more than a little screwed up I don’t see that it is really that horrible … they both know he’s gay and for now are both ignorant and self-deluded enough to pretend that that can change …
Fact: 80% of the times whenever someone use the words “i know a friend” they usually mean themselves:-P
Fact: also, 70% statistic is made up on the spot including the ones saying how many is made up on the spot;)
There’s “lies.”
There’s “damn lies.”
And then there’s “statistics.”
-Mark Twain
Fact: The smallest known dinosaur was about the size of a house cat.
They can be quite a bit smaller than a house cat. For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parvicursor might have been about 15 inches long, that is with bird-like build and a long tail. Others might be even smaller but are known from juvenile bones, so final size is uncertain.
AWESOME! Dina, take notice.
I’m pretty sure that Avia contains some dinosaurs smaller than that.
Fact: 2 minutes googling was not enough to make up a good dinosaur fact.
Fact: There are awesome people in this commentator field.
Obligatory XKCD.
LOL watch out for incoming flying dinosaur poop…
…Though I hear it’s considered good luck… 😛
To everyone it didn’t hit, anyway.
True, small avian dinosaurs are very common, and can be very small indeed.
The Bee hummingbird is thought to be the smallest living
birddinosaur. At ≤2 g and ≤ 6 cm it is often mistaken for a bee (however it is a giant compared to the smallest known vertebrate a ≤ 8 mm frog) …I’m pretty sure that in fiction, that 80% statistic is actually 100%.
And your second statistic is far too meta for me to think about very hard at this time of night.
Well, if 80% X = 100% X then X = 0. Concllusion: there are no statistics in fiction.
Fact, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck; if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
For your work in the nonsequiter field, I award you an ice cream made of spinach and hair.
Fact:how much wood could a woodchuck chuck; if a woodchuck could chuck a woodchuck who have chucked wood??
That’s a question that can’t be answered.
What has been established is that a woodchuck makes a fine stew.
Q: How much bound, round ground could a bound round ground hound hound if a bound round ground hound could be found bound to hound bound round ground for a round pound of bound ground round?
A: As much bound, round ground as any bound round ground hound bound to hound bound round ground around would hound, if a bound round ground hound could be found around bound to hound bound round ground for a round pound of bound ground round.
How many nuns can a nunchuck chuck, if a nunchuck can chuck nuns
THAT’S NOT A FACT THAT’S A QUESTION. QUESTIONS ARE NOT FACTS. ANSWERS ARE FACTS. IT’S IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND I JUST GOT ALL CAPSLOCK FOR THE STUPIDEST REASON EVER…. so, sorry about that. I’ll see myself out.
Well, a question that lead to a answer regarding a fact can be considered a fact due to the question is connected to a fact, thus, questions can be considered a pre-fact and so on and so on…
noooooooo no no no no no stop I can’t take it anymore
Is there one thing i have learned since i was little is that pretty much everything can be turned into a word or a sentence that may benefit the user, case in point, “lawyers” 😉
What have I created?
I don’t know, but I need a cup of something that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.
Five. Quid pro quo.
Fact, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck; if a woodchuck could chuck wood?.
Urgh, Daniel the Human tortures me with this, I can’t keep up with how fast he says then answers it…
…Which is why I’m taking over Screwball’s Gravatar to answer. Daniel Here, only took a few recitings for him to cave in… }:D
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck; if a woodchuck could chuck wood? As much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.
Came up with it when I was 13/14ish, taught it to my little sister to help train her brain, it just rolls off the tongue easily if said in the same manner as the original…
Importantly, almost 13% of made up statistics turn out to be not completely wrong.
Whoa. I did not expect Joyce to get to this point so fast. It’s nerve-wracking, because I think the whole “I’ve been trying to turn a gay guy straight” deal seems like the thing that would be most likely to put her friendship with Dorothy on the rocks. And their friendship (not the ‘ship, really, just the friend thing) matters more to me than just about any other DoA relationship. I can’t stand the thought of Willis Willising it up.
But, again, Joyce owning up to it so soon, even obliquely, is… a good sign? Maybe? Please? I have a DYW on the tip of my tongue, and I don’t want to have to use it.
Look, there’s a perfectly logical explana-LOOK, A DISTRACTION!
LOOK!! SOMETHING SHINEY!!! *Runs off laughing like a mad man…*
You know what they say about assuming Dorothy. Something about asses I think.
Assuming makes an ass out of you and Ming… not that Ming needed help with that. Ming is a Class 5 asshole.
He’s merciless, in fact.
You make out with Uma Thurman’s ass. Which is one of the biggest reason so many people assume things.
…I assume.
Serious Freudian slippage going on in this one . . .
Dorothy is super bummed i the last panel because if Joyce is in lesbians with her best friend it would mean that Walky was right about something that Dorothy was wrong about, and that just can’t be.
Joking aside, I’m impressed how Dorothy is gently easing her friends into letting her help them. She teases a bit but she makes abundantly clear that she is on Joyce’s side.
Come to think of it, Dorothy might be the (2nd) least flawed character in this strip. (Mike is the least flawed character because he is Mike)
We haven’t had enough of Mike to determine his flaws, other than the potential for him to be distracted by being tied up.
Just clarifying, that part about Mike in my comment was sarcasm. In my opinion, Mike has a lot of flaws: he’s manipulative and sadistic and strangles small mammals (probably).
You mean small mammarians. That’s mean: he should just toss them back.
He’s more of a masochist than a sadist.
Oh, upon further research I think Mike seems more like someone with antisocial personality disorder. I didn’t really know what sadism was when I wrote that.
No, Mike is perfect.
A perfect asshole.
Dorothy is not flawless, but I agree she is probably the least flawed.
And for that reason she is my least favourite.
She’s nearly perfect, yeah. Especially those freckles. Rowr!
The only thing that she did that strikes me as questionable is breaking up with Dan and then starting a relationship up with a guy with even less lofty goals, but Walky would be an amazing First Dude.
The important difference between Danny and Walky is that Walky has a goal: It’s to goof off. I don’t subscribe to the comments saying that all Danny ever wanted was to cling to Dorothy for the rest of his life, but he prioritized their relationship far too much at the expense of going to a better school. I mean, he’s 18. It’s okay to be dumb about relationships, but “be with Dorothy” should not be the only thing on his mind. Walky’s goal is to goof off and watch cartoons, which isn’t what I’d call “lofty”, but at least it’s something he wants to do for himself, so Dorothy can date him and have fun without worrying that she’s dragging him away from better opportunities.
If you read the strips, it seems quite obvious to me that “despising his girlfriend’s most cherished dreams” is what Danny is guilty of, and the reason why anyone should have dumped him (yes, staying with a partner that does this is bad for you)…
I don’t think Danny meant anything that malicious. He didn’t understand the depths of her ambition, and wrongly assumed he would matter more to her than her future. It’s why he followed her to IU instead of going to Purdue.
I mean, that’s pretty bad, because it shows a lack of respect both for Dorothy and himself, but I’m not going to guilt the kid forever because he said something stupid to his girlfriend.
Did he really “despise her dreams”? When Dorothy talked about being president, Danny suggested he could hang around the oval office and update the software on the presidential computer (or something like that).
Sounds clingy, but not someone who doesn’t want the other person to be successful.
Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall any instances of Danny despising Dorothy’s dream of becoming President. At worst, he seemed guilty of wishfully thinking that Dorothy might decide to stay at IU.
Not so much “despising” as “dismissing”, really…
I don’t think Dorothy needed a reason to dump Danny, other than the relationship just wasn’t working for her. (And beyond that he was being dismissive of her dreams, and also creepily clingy.) And even if she dumped him to pick up another dude with the same problems, it’s not really a slight on anybody but herself.
But I do think it was pretty jerkish of her to wait to dump him until after he already followed her to college. I don’t know the details, but she could have been clearer as soon as he started talking about them at IU together forever. It does seem a bit like she was leading him on.
Exactly! Dorothy decided to end the relationship with Danny [because of reasons]. Then she decided to peruse a relationship with Walky [because of reasons]. The reasons are nobody’s business, and except for stringing Danny along she did nothing wrong (and she herself admitted that was a bad thing).
It’s important to remember that Dorothy was never intended to be one of the lead characters of the series. We probably weren’t meant to think too hard about why Dorothy just never ended things, and the break-up is an establishing of Danny’s flaws and him making a huge mistake, whereupon a few pages later he starts crushing on Amazi-Girl. It was mostly just to set up Danny’s main foibles.
At the same time, though, I think it’s important to remember that, by all accounts, Dorothy was pretty happy with Danny (even saying outright that she loved him, not to mention they dated for two years. If Dorothy was unhappy with him in High School she would have ended things), but she felt she had to focus on her studies and career, while also not wanting Danny to base his life around hers. Things didn’t get ugly until Danny danned things up with her that she exploded at him and stormed off, and their few interactions since then show that Dorothy doesn’t really hold any ill will towards him and feels a little guilty for how things played out.
An off-by-one error made me calculate (some weeks ago) the day of Walky’s wacky wager would be today, but actually that happened on saturday of parents weekend, so there is still one day left for Joyce turning into a lesbean!
Eh, just because someone is your best friend doesn’t mean you are their best friend. It would be unlikely for the asymmetry to be great, but a small one can exist just fine.
My best friend is Lynn, but I am not her best friend.
It’s like the inverse of the situation where the amount of people you know is compared to the amount of people known by the people you know.
The people you know know more people than you do, on average, because it is more likely that such people know you.
So it’s possible that the amount of people who consider you their best friend is greater than the amount of people you consider your best friend, considering we’re operating under the standard definition of “best”.
My best friend is marrying her best friend. I received an invitation last week.
Condolences.
“The people you know know more people than you do, on average, because it is more likely that such people know you.”
I’m pretty sure that most people have at least met themselves even if they aren’t their own best friend.
Joyce, stop unintentionally coming out. You’re confusing people.
She’s just a friend of Dorothy telling her about the lesbian she’s sleeping with.
*slow clap gains momentum and turns into thunderous applause. the applause shakes the foundation of the theatre until the roof collapses, crushing all the clapping people… dammit. this was supposed to be a compliment. maybe I’ll just go with +1 instead.*
*joins slowclap*
well played dude *slow clappin vigorously*
hehehe
Joyce, you seem to have freudian slipped up. penIs that what you really meant, or was there some mother way you wanted to spinster this? Cause lesbian-est, it’s not looking very good for you right now.
youre amazing
Your insight is titty-lating.
Don’t worry Joyce, you’re still technically in the clear.
Person A can be best friends with Person B, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Person B is best friends with Person A. Person B might be best friends with Person C. By definition, there should be only one “best” friend, but it doesn’t always have to be a reciprocated relationship.
Hmm, but maybe we’d then have to draw a line between the phrase “best friend” and “best friends.” Perhaps “best friends” would imply reciprocity based on the pluralization of the word friends.
So, Person A’s best friend could be Person B, but Person B’s best friend might be Person C. However, if Person A is best friends with Person B, then maybe Person B has to be best friends with Person A.
My head hurts…
The binary relation of “is Best Friends with” is not necessarily symmetric.
I’m sure that makes things much clearer for everyone here.
I’m pretty sure I’m not that great a friend to the people I consider my best friends, personally.
Dorothy really annoys me- more and more every time she shows up. “TELL ME YOUR SECRETS. TELL THEM TO ME. TELL ME WHAT’S BOTHERING YOU BECAUSE WE ARE FRIEEEEENDS.”
Ugh. If someone wants to tell you why they’re upset, they will. Leave people to feel their feels in peace.
Dorothy gives Joyce an opening to talk about what’s bothering her and Joyce leaps to it. She expresses worry that Dorothy will think less about her for it and Dorothy does what she can to defuse to situation and show that she is on Joyce’s side.
Joyce is utterly incapable of hiding her emotions. For reference, panel two is what she looks like when she doesn’t want to talk about something.
It wasn’t just Joyce. She outright admitted that she was willing to manipulate Walky with sex because she has no idea how to sit back and let people deal with their problems on their own.
… From that picture, I think Mike has the hots for Sal. Then again, he has a hots for Moms, so…
showing someone that you care about their issues and will not judge them provides a safe space for Joyce to open up, but I fail to see how Dorothy is being pushy here.
Poor Dorothy. She’s really, really, really not comfortable with problems she can’t solve.
That’s a good insight into Dorothy’s character.
Mmm, love the taste of hypocrisy in the morning. Dorothy, please give this girl a good talking to. Like, I get that she’s just misguided but. Still.
Dumbing of Age: Words keep happening.
man, I’m kind of glad that Joyce isn’t just going to talk about Becky but is actually going to address the thing she has going with Ethan. Especially after Sarah warned her that she could lose Dorothy as a friend for that exact reason.
But also lol at this page, flustered Joyce is one of the best Joyce’s haa
Joyce… Joyce, you precious little sheltered fundie baby.
No sarcasm, I really just think she’s adorable in her awkward fumbling way of trying to function socially in the secular world. Like a kitten that’s just opened its eyes and isn’t quite sure how depth perception works yet but is tottering around everywhere trying to get into everything and falling on its face.
I am adding this to my spreadsheet of data concerning the “hypothetical best friend who is actually the person asking the question” strategy of seeking advice. It will go into the substantial “it just doesn’t work” column.
I have not yet reached statistical significance, but preliminary results imply that it just doesn’t work.
Call me picky, but I prefer my data to be based on real events, not events in comics.
But, but, I gotta learn from somewhere. You humans are weird, but if I’m gonna blend in, I gotta know what to do. Some of the stuff out there tho O.o . I mean, what’s so interesting about a chicken sitting on someone’s head? apparently it’s really popular, but I don’t see it…
Doesn’t saying “I have a friend” pretty much automatically make the listener assume it’s about the speaker?
Dorothy is a real overachiever. People like Mike have to work hard at being an asshole. But she’s a natural without even practising.
? I think the hypertext is about atheists in general, not Dotty is particular. I don’t see how Dorothy is being an asshole here, especially to Joyce, who’s different (an sometimes hostile) set of beliefs she’s so far managed to treat with a lot of respect
Well, “best friend” isn’t necessarily a symmetric relation. Her best friend might have an even better friend.
Okay, I’ve read through your READ BEFORE POSTING, and now I’m just itching to use ‘strawman’ correctly. I’ll probably have to wait for a political catfight to show up in the comments.
I genuinely don’t understand what atheism has got to do with test posts or “first” posts, though.
@Malasdair, I was wondering that too. Maybe he meant to refer to a different rule. But even if he did, I can’t imagine any particular rule that is specifically applicable in this situation that hasn’t been much more applicable in other, more controversial comic strips. This comic isn’t particularly controversial, nor does it seem incendiary to anybody in any way.
I think it’s because Willis can’t control the comments as fiercely since he’s on vacation.
Potentially, but he does still look. Went through a bag or 2 of popcorn watching the reactions from when someone almost halfway down the page said to destroy the place, only for Mr Willis to pop up & say hi…
I’d do a more precise link, but don’t know how…
*Imedietly spots & discovers means of making a direct link…
I don’t think it has anything to do with the strip itself; I believe there was a spate of firsting when this strip posted. I didn’t see it, but I saw what looked like some of the residue before it got cleaned up. And there’ve been some people in the comments for the last few strips talking about wanting to beat Jen Aside to the first comment.
Nah, I can do it right now! Dorothy met the strawman and together they went to the Wizard to help him get a brain.
You did it!
Now that’s the Dorothy we all are friends of!
I call no take backs either Joyce is a lesbian or she faces that her best friend has someone else as her best friend
Seems even her own mother has worked that out too… 😛
i was getting to read that im jsut starting that continuity but i dont mind ill forget by time i reach there last i checked sal kidnapped joyce. but yep pretending to have sex with a boy for others approval is a sure sign
Am I the only one reading this situation as possibly leading into Dorothy (temporarily – a couple of strips or so) believing that Joyce is telling her that Walky is gay and Dorothy has been unintentionally trying to change him, thus explaining why Walky was acting funny in the last 2 strips?
https://31.media.tumblr.com/f691a830477d95fb4822d9adb073a17b/tumblr_inline_nj3pvpPmtZ1qer33z.png
I need Ethan to meet Becky already. She could do so much good. Augh I just want everyone to be happy.
ooouuh, yeah, can’t wait to see Ethan’s face when he hears “thank God my good friend JOYCE accepts me as a lesbian!”
Really? Ethan does not want to be defined by his sexuality, but Becky is happily defining herself through her sexuality.
Ethan needs to meet someone like Daisy or Leslie to learn that you can be openly gay but still are not defined by this.
Daisy’s having a hard time with that in this comic, though – her sexual orientation (and frustration) has shown up in almost all strips that she’s appeared in so far.
Joyce can fix this misunderstanding by saying “My best friend? I meant ME.”
It would fix a lot of things, actually, if she meant it.
Sooo…after re-reading this, is Joyce saying SHE’S a lesbian?? That’s what I get from it and explains the last panel 🙂 Poor Joyce!
Thanks for #6 in the FAQs, by the way. When I saw that Dina’s last name was “Sarazu,” I started mentally applying Japanese pronunciation, mainly the “silent vowel” thing, and thought, “Oh, geez, is it ‘Die-na?’ Is her name really pronounced ‘Die-na Sah-raz?’ Like ‘dinosaurs?'”
Not that there would be anything wrong with that, it’s just nice to see that it’s not the case.
Considering ‘read before posting’, THANK YOU for number 6. That’d been bugging me since forever. The rest is basically a long version of Wil Wheaton’s law, right? (also in my head Dina has the same voice as BMO)
That’s how she sounds to me, too. Awesome.
I’M GONNA QUIT THE COMIC IF I QUIT THE COMIC FOR QUITTING THE COMIC
Upon rereading, how can Joyce possibly get out of this without outing Ethan and outing herself as Ethan’s beard?
Even if the “best friend” alibi wasn’t so paper thin, Becky’s practically broadcasting her lesbianism on national TV (and Walky can vouch for it), and Dorothy’s suggested that Ethan might gay before. I don’t know how Joyce expected to get out of this one without Dorothy putting two and two together.
Joyce may be prepared to come out of the ‘terrible relationship ideas’ closet. Yeah, it’ll mean outing Ethan to Dorothy but I doubt Joyce really grasps that outing people even to someone you trust is a major no-no.
She outed Billie to Becky without a thought.
Agreed. That’s a lesson she hopefully picks up on soon.
This strip is so funny!!
First!
That was just a test.
Ray-Ray Ruths
stop firsting each other
Pretty sure both First and Test comments are against the rules.
I think they’re just being trolls…
Technically, the “she” in “she’s a lesbian” is ambiguous. Joyce could be saying “my best friend’s best friend found out that my best friend is a lesbian and now she feels really bad because she’s also dating Ethan.”
Or she could just backtrack and say her older sister is the one dating Ethan or something.
And this would later lead to Joyce’s discovery that she does in fact have an older sister.
Except as far as Joyce knows, her older sister is still her “older brother”.
Hence the “discovery” part at the end, there.
Today, both of David Willis’ comics feature a churchy girl performing Jazz Hands in the final panel.
Joyce is much better at it than Walkyverse Mary.
Some day, Joyce will learn to think before she talks, but hopefully it won’t be any time soon. She’s funnier this way.
I honestly give Joyce a lot of slack here. I’ve been exactly where she was in terms of views on life, and it can skew your priorities and how you relate with other people.
The good thing is she feels bad about it. That’s a sign that she’s experiencing personal growth rather than simply being defensive about a decision she ‘knows’ is correct.
Did Mike come into the cafeteria with them? All of this awkwardness should be delightful for him.
He’s probably hanging out around them like a Suffering vulture.
Yes Joyce, elaborate more…
Oh Joyce you big silly. You’re so dang goofy!
This is going well!