If anyone could, Becky could. She’s got a drive to explore stuff despite, or maybe because of, it being forbidden to her.
But either way, I agree it would be awesome.
It implies she thinks someone might know. Either she’s open about it, which gives me even more respect for her (and does resonate with herself in SP!), or she was willing to believe the worst had happened.
From Sal’s comments last night she prefers to keep it to herself because she umm . . . fears (not the best word) that people might consider her a freak. She wants to be an asshole and not a freak. Second year students and up probably already know about it, but not the newbies.
You can, certainly (I identify as a gay transwoman) but the fact remains “gay” and “straight” were conceived in a cisnormative vacuum and aren’t hugely appropriate to transpeople. Especially anyone nonbinary.
I don’t really like androphil and gynophil either because they exclude nonbinary too, just on the other end of the equation. There aren’t really any good words for sexuality that are trans inclusive honestly.
I think sometimes you just have to accept that one word won’t do it sometimes, and just go with a full sentence: “I consider myself x. I am attracted to y.”
It all started in algebra class. I was asked to find x. In a panic, I thought quickly and bluffed. “I consider myself x.” It wasn’t until months later that I realized that I really did feel more comfortable thinking of myself as x.
I am attracted to differentiable functions, because I like to lie tangent to their curves.
They’re def not appropriate for non binary folk, but saying that they don’t apply to trans people seems shitty to me. I am a cis lady dating a trans girl, and it upsets me when people say/imply that we aren’t really a lesbian couple because we’re not both cisgender. When you say it doesn’t really apply, it seems like you’re saying trans people aren’t really the gender they identify as (which since you are trans yourself I am guessing I am misunderstanding you). Or is it the words themselves which imply everyone is binary?
> “gay” and “straight” were conceived in a cisnormative vacuum
Oh, that makes sense. I need to do some reading.
My main concern is that people take that logic and go a step further to invalidate relationships and orientations. Melissa’s comment further down talks about it some, and I’ve seen it happen too many times.
So there’s where my knee-jerk “whoa what’s going on here” reaction is coming from…
(Disclosure: I’m non-binary and pansexual/queer, so other than this I don’t have a lot to say on the subject.)
If you think that’s so, what kind of terminology do you consider to be appropriate for folks who don’t give a shit about gender, and only care what kind of equipment they are attracted to?
I think that’s the point. Androphile and gynophile don’t say what you are, just what you like. We can come up with other terms for liking both, or nothing, if you need them. They’re a lot more useful than ‘homo’ and ‘hetero’, that’s for sure.
Actually there is a fairly common term – you just replace the ‘sexual’ with the ‘romantic’. So you can be a panromantic nb, or a homoromantic asexual. Or even the far lesser known possibility of being biromantic heterosexual etc.
I gather that the shared bathroom’s doors only lock from inside the bathroom, so the room’s occupants can lock the other half of the suite out of the bathroom, but not out of the room.
If they’re anything like the ones in the dorm I lived in, they have locks on both sides.
Theoretically you can unlock them from inside the bathroom with a key, but at some point they changed the door locks and they no longer matched the bathroom locks, so nobody had keys to get out if they got locked in the bathroom by their roommate.
I lived in suites like that for two years. We never really bothered with those locks, especially after we realized our keys didn’t work and it would be easy to accidentally lock somebody in the bathroom. You’re already trusting one other person able to get into your room, might as well trust three.
‘Course, I never had Joyce for a suitemate. I had four different suitemates over those years, and all of them respected that an unlocked door isn’t an invitation. The fact that they also had an unlocked door probably helped.
A lock is just an illusion of safety, anyhow. A person will either chose to respect a closed door, or not. A locked door is a delay at most. Which is still a practical thing to have on an outside door or on your car, but not so much on any interior door.
As someone who wears exactly that hat to bed every night, seeing it in a comic made me more than a little excited. Mine is to keep my hair curly rather than straight, but still. ALL GLORY TO THE HAIR.
I… almost never comment. Once in a blue moon. I do go to IU, though. I also recommend the comic to people like crazy (I even recommended it to my students when I taught as a peer instructor a few semesters running). I haven’t been especially successful in those attempts, as far as I can tell. Still. I can’t be the only Hoosier here.
I’ve definitely seen at least a few other students from IU commenting here. Dunno if they are regular readers though. I imagine David could get a good idea based on the hits from the IU IP block, if he wanted to.
And, while I missed his most recent visit to Our Fair City (due to a family member being in the hospital), I have met Mr. Willis when he did signings at Vintage Phoenix (yes, “As featured in ‘DoA'”)
To be fair, they do make pretty rad hats for those who don’t mind a little ridicule. Nothing like a phallic protrusion on your head to make you feel like a champ.
Everyone has a subjective view of reality — when you speak of your true beliefs, the ones you’re really confident about, what it looks like to you is like speaking facts, regardless of whether you’re actually right or wrong.
So that you say “Earth is billions of years old” merely means that you are really quite confident in your belief that the Earth is billions of years old. You’d bet your life on that belief, and be comfortable doing so.
Someone on the other hand saying “I believe the Earth is billions of years old” signals that they believe this, but that they’re not quite as confident about it — if they were really 100% or thereabout in their belief they’d not need to preface this with “I believe”.
The thing is that I don’t need to be confident in that fact; there is tons of science to prove it, and I’m willing to change my stance if there’s research to suggest otherwise.
Also, the words “I believe” doesn’t necessarily imply doubt.
“The thing is that I don’t need to be confident in that fact; there is tons of science to prove it, and I’m willing to change my stance if there’s research to suggest otherwise.”
That just means you’re *correctly* confident about this fact.
The example you gave from the Book of Mormon very *clearly* shows the doubt in question that I’m talking about — in pretty much every verse, it shows that the very reason the guy shouts “I believe” is that he’s been having a crisis of faith about his religion and he feels the emotional need to reaffirm it.
It sounds like arguing semantics, but you seem to be conflating “beliefs” with “ideas”. I would not say that I believe in something that’s so far shown to be quite true, but rather that I “think” that something is correct. 🙂 Unlike Elder Price, I don’t need to reaffirm that the Earth is billions of years old, or that animals evolve over time; I just have to look at the multitude of scientific evidence that backs up those claims.
I’m an evolutionist myself (I can count on my hand the number of creationists I’ve met) but to say Evolution is true/fact is to do a disservice of scientific method. Nothing in science is “fact” so much as it is “theory that has been rigorously tested to the point where we can pretty much accept it”
Evolution and Creationism are both theories. The difference lies in why we should adopt them;
Evolution offers an explanitory account that has been tested on a smaller scale and holds up in principle while offering a more complete and detailed explaination of the world that seems pretty compelling and has stood up to a century and a half of scrutiny. While difficult to wholly falsify, it is committed to several smaller elements which have held up pretty well (though I’ve heard challenges to specifics, apparently Lamarck is making a come back in microbiological evolution).
Creationism doesn’t explain a lot of things; vestigal features, similarities between specifies, artificial breeding are all pretty much unexplained. Further, many of the commitments it makes have largely been falsified by reputible studies; these can be rejected but only by refusing a lot of theories (like evolution) which also explain a lot.
So, yeah. I think a serious Empiricist’s objection should lie more on the grounds that the Creationism is a weak theory that demands a lot of good highly useful theories be discarded than that Evolution as it currently stands is “Fact”.
Actually, the Vatican has held that position since at least 1950. The recent pope’s claim wasn’t a turnaround, it was just him saying “by the way, folks, I’d like to REMIND you that this is our position, so please stop confusing us with the Protestant fundies”.
Did you notice that her smile gets less and less perky with each new intro? By time they reached Dina, she was either wondering what kind of awful dorm this is OR what kind of awful person Joyce has become. You’re thinkng the latter, Kernanater and Agent Keen?
Well after all my built up tension this feels anticlimactic. I guess we’ll have to wait just a little bit longer for the big reveal – or the big unreveal.
Does it count as “born again” if you were born into the faith? I thought to be born again you had to be born as something else first? Born-again Christians thus being the (usually overzealous) adult converts?
Everyone’s born a sinner. It’s repenting and going through all the pageantry of properly becoming Christian which makes you “born again.” In my church, you weren’t properly Christian until you were baptized. You can’t just naturally be Christian due to your upbringing.
I know that for some sects there’s something like being born again which is actually discovering (via feelings!) that your name is in the holy book of life, in which case you’re saved no matter what the hell you do. Rape, murder, all good. Don’t know if they called that “born again”, though.
It sounds like you’re talking about predestination, Begbert2, which is a predominantly Calvinist idea. The gist of it (from my sinful atheist understanding, at least) is that the universe was created by God at the beginning of time, fixed and unalterable; His will is absolute, fate spins out like clockwork, and free will is an illusion. As such, salvation exists, but the Elect have been chosen by God at the beginning of time (as have the damned) and everything will play out according to the Divine Plan. As such, salvation is unconditional and absolute – but since God is pulling all the strings, the Elect will not act in a way contradicting their status. So the problem of unconditional grace conflicting with mortal sin never arises – the Elect are manufactured in such a way that they do not sin.
Of course, non-Calvinists can point out flaws in this logic – personally I think that predestination contradicts free will and would invalidate all sin, all good, and indeed render irrelevant and pointless Christ’s sacrifice (along with the universe in general) since humanity would be merely meat puppets dancing to God’s tune – but then, as I am definitely not one of the Elect, I would think that.
I’m mostly pulling from half-remembered lessons about what the pilgrims believed, so I could be wrong here, but I don’t recall it being based on predestination so much as God being infallible. The Book of Life (mentioned once or twice in scripture) is supposed to list all those who are/will be saved, and since it’s God’s book it can’t be wrong. So whether or not we have free will or are fully predestined, that book is still there, and it can’t be wrong about who’ll be saved no matter what we do.
But you’re right that the theory was that persons who felt the fuzzy feelings and decided they were saved were supposed to also be good. And of course the community always had the ‘out’ that if they decided somebody was too naughty to be pre-saved then they could declare his moment of realization as mistaken or a demonic deception. (Which their own salvations definitely weren’t.)
The Pilgrims were Brownists. The Brownists were an Anglican splinter movement influenced by the Puritans (the main difference is that the Puritans wanted to reform the Church of England from within, while the Brownists broke off), who in turn were heavily influenced by Calvinist theology.
The Anglicans christen babies at birth (which is a parental choice), and then confirm them as adult Christians who are there by their own choice when they’re about seventeen or so, after which they’re allowed to take Communion.
Do you guys have Anglicans in the States? I hear that Protestants are the same thing, but the head of the Anglican church is the British monarch (so there’s a picture of the Queen in all the churches, same as in Canadian schools) which I find unlikely for American churches; and they allow female priests and gay marriage, which I’m reasonably sure is a combination no American church has (at least, not that I’ve heard).
So I guess if anyone wants a gay wedding and still have a church wedding, come on up to Canada?
As far as US churches allowing women to be priests and gay marriage, I think there are some starting to move that way. For one, I’m pretty sure my grandma’s church ordains women, and I recently saw that they were planning on beginning to allow performance of same-sex marriages in states where it was legal (I think starting this year?).
We call them Episcopalians instead of Anglicans, but we have them. They share a lot of practices with the Lutheran church I grew up going to, it seems.
Of course, being an openly bisexual born-again pagan, I wonder how Joyce would react to me. 😉
US Episcopalians are our branch of the worldwide Anglican communion. No, they don’t swear loyalty to the Queen; they’re still part of the communion. They have not just female priests but an female archbishop, and voted last year to allow gay marriage. The United Church of Christ was years ahead of them on both counts, with their first woman pastor in 1853. The Presbyterians have had women pastors and are in the process of affirming gay marriage. The Unitarian Universalists have affirmed marriage equality since 1973 and women pastors since probably a long time ago. Quakers were founded by women leaders and the more liberal side supports gay marriage.
Quite a lot of US churches have female pastors. Gay marriage is rarer but present.
“Protestants” are in no way the same thing as Anglicans; it’s a broad category including Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, etc. One could argue about whether Anglicans are Protestant, as they didn’t come out of the Protestant Reformation per se, but the Episcopal Church calls itself “Protestant and Catholic”.
Most Protestant churches are pretty decentralized, so even if the synod doesn’t support gay marriage, a local pastor might marry you. The reverse might be true as well for e.g. the UCC.
Sadly up here we pretty much only hear about the nutbars, like Westboro (who oughtn’t be considered Christian at all, IMO) and pretty much nothing at all about the more gay- and women-friendly ones. So that’s great news.
I believe it’s a reference to baptism (and possibly tangentially to the eternal life provided by Christ’s sacrifice?) being a ‘rebirth’. And, as my grandma told me more than a few times, you don’t go to heaven if you’re not baptized (‘reborn’).
So always look on the bright side of death…(Whistle)
Just before you draw your terminal breath…(Whistle)
Life’s a piece of shit, when you look at it
Life’s a laugh and death’s a joke, it’s true
You’ll see its all a show, keep ’em laughin as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you
Still counts. Evangelicals don’t do infant baptisms. Even if you’re raised in the church, you’re expected to make a formal profession of faith once you’re old enough to truly understand what you’re doing. Only then would you be considered “born-again”.
Some branches of Christianity believe in adult baptism, that you can only accept Jesus as your savior when you are grown, versus, eg, being baptised as an infant and have godparents accept for you.
More generally speaking, she could have paid for one. After freshman* year, anyone who wanted a private dorm just paid 1.5x to 3x the rent (depending on which dorm).
*freshmen might’ve been able to do it, too, but I sure didn’t know any who did
Why would IU be so restrictive about its single dorms? Where I went to school, single dorms were for anyone who doesn’t want to share a bedroom with a total stranger and is willing to pay for it. And it doesn’t cost 3x the normal price, even if you have a double as a single. In fact, I don’t think a double as a single is even 2x the price.
I’m saying where I went (which I mistakenly left out of the original comment), the “regular” dorm rooms were optionable as singles, and prices ranged from 1.5x to 3x rent based on location [close to the student center = 2x or 3x, out in BFE = 1.5x]
and I just realized I may have misinterpreted your comment:
Why would IU (or any college) be restrictive about dorm rooms? I bet they aren’t–it’s just that Joyce doesn’t realize it’s an option because 1. her parents are the ones paying for it (and what college kid straight out of high school and getting a free ride is gonna look at the paperwork) and 2. the point of living on campus is to socialize, which is hindered by hermiting like an old misanthropic grump.
That’s reasonable. But in earlier discussions of the topic, a lot of people have stated that her having the room to herself is strong evidence of her transgender status, and that when they hear about somebody having his or her own room, they suspect the person is a transexual. Having one’s own room clearly is more rare in some places than where I went to school. When I was about to start school, I understood very little of the paperwork I saw, but I did understand that having my own room was an option, but sharing a room would save me money.
Accurate internet metaphor is accurate *shrug* honestly I just said that because I like the thought of it. I don’t think it applies to most of this comic’s crazy customary comment crew. Ack, alliteration always attacks abruptly.
She’s way too open about it for that to be the case. It could be that she’s still legally male according to her birth certificate and ID, so she can’t have any female roommates, but they’re letting her live in a female hall as a compromise.
It could have just been an executive decision from the dorm staff. they may have worried that a girl (or her parents) might be offended, or object to, having a trans roommate, and decided that soaking the extra expense was worth avoiding a potential lawsuit.
Don’t think Willis hasn’t thought about this – I wouldn’t be surprised if a future comic expands on this.
It’s kind of weird thinking about her being someone’s daughter other than Joe and Rachel. I’d just gotten used to them being parents, and now they’re not anymore, but the daughter is still around. And I can’t really imagine anyone else filling that space.
I don’t know if it’s don’t allow, but most trans students prefer their own room and can be accommodated. At my school whether you got a single or double (or triple) was by lottery, but when applying I did mention I was trans. To this day I’m not if I got a single because of that or just luck.
I mean, that’s what immediately sprung to mind when I read the ‘she gets a single room all to herself’ bit, and considering characters here have character elements from the Shortpacked universe in somewhat different forms, her being transgender in this universe makes sense.
She is canonically transgender according to the authors tumblr, which is just, so great. I’m so pleased about that.
And she references it during the Whiteboard Dongs incident. When she got shouty about the dong on her whiteboard being a hatecrime, that’s what she thought she was getting hatecrime’d over.
So does Carla need to go to college? She’s yet to throw any pies, and doesn’t have much of a reason to learn much. I kinda figured her to be a bit more like Mike in how he feeds off of other’s strife…
Carla’s really not all that tall if you factor in the 4-5 inches of roller skates. In fact, she’d be about the same height as Joyce. Unless she’s wearing normal shoes right now and Joyce is a liar.
Am I the only one that considers Joyce incredibly rude and creepy for climbing Sal’s bunk to look at her and talk about her when she’s sleeping? Seriously, why does Becky go along with this?
To me, any comic with Joyce climbing into sleeping people’s beds (this far Sal, Billie and Ethan) is -100 points for Joyce, it really bothers me.
Eh. Me and my best friend are in our late twenties, and she still just lets herself into my house and climbs into my bed to wake me up. I’m happy if she confines herself to raiding my food and mooching my WiFi and lets me sleep. Or sometimes she just gets in the bed and goes to sleep after work, because I have an AWESOME mattress. Like, I know some people would find that incredibly creepy, but…I don’t know. For some people, it just isn’t a big deal for friends. Sal is likely going, “Joyce, shut up, it’s quiet time”. Ethan didn’t mind, because he’s Ethan and Ethan is pretty chill. Billie is a cheerleader and likely used to an open sleeping arrangement. Now, if someone tells Joyce she needs to not be so morning-friendly and open with them, and Joyce continues to do so, like how Dorothy would likely feel…that’s a different kettle of fish.
Joyce will likely be very, very confused. Hopefully it leads to a learning experience that allows her to be understanding of her sister, if and when she chooses to reveal herself as a she.
Well, I think Dina and Walky are the only ones who have confronted her about that fact (I’m too lazy to go back and re-read “Guess Who’s Coming to Galasso’s” to double-check), and she already said that she’s not going to introduce Becky to Walky, so…
I don’t think Dorothy even confirmed Dina and Walky’s statements about it, though if she did, Joyce might be in denial enough to think she was just being polite to her boyfriend.
Which begs the question, why would a supposedly omnipotent and omniscient being take multiple days to do something, when it could do it all at once? Seems pointlessly inefficient to me.
I know Willis has said that he’s going to make an in-universe confirmation of Carla’s trans* status, but I’ve decided to keep track of how many times it’s alluded to before being outright stated.
This is #3. And it implies that either the folks in charge of assigning rooms were overly cautious about her status (whether due to their own transphobia or covering their asses in case her potential roommate was transphobic) or that Carla hasn’t finished transitioning… or both. (For the record, I don’t give a fuck about what genitalia she currently has, and frankly hope that it doesn’t come up in the comic since it shouldn’t matter [unless it being brought up is so that Willis can spread the fact that it shouldn’t matter to anyone but the person in question, and it’s nobody else’s business unless the trans* person wants ot share it with them].)
#1 was during “The Whiteboard Ding Dong Bandit” when she thought the penis on her whiteboard was a hate crime before discovering that all the doors were marked and deciding that it was actually hilarious.
#2 was when Sal referred to Carla’s height when they were talking about Roller Derby before she decided to challenge whether Sal could skate.
Also, for the record, in reference to the above about trans* people’s genitals: I’m bi-gender trans*. One doesn’t need to be trans* to care about basic respect and manners, but that’s why I’m personally so emotionally invested in the subject.
Yeah, I counted the same. And ditto on the rest of the stuff, except I’m more agender.
Also, it has to count for something that her Walkyverse (is that right?) self is also trans – not just a car, but assumed male at…I’m not sure what, it wasn’t explained…, considering that the gender and sexual orientation of characters is basically the same across the two universes. So, kind of #4?
Most places assign dorms based on legal gender, which has varying requirements to change based on the state…IU actually does have some gender-neutral housing, though.
I must admit, when I first saw panel 1, I thought they were shoving an elephant into a garbage shoot. But then, I’m old, and my eyes see elephants in weird places, I guess
Even though I cannot remember how long ago I stopped being what little bit of Christian I was, to this day I still have that slight mental hesitation every time I hear BCE history of any sort that doesn’t conform with Sunday school. Hell, thanks to that, it took me until the edge of 30 years old to realize the actual definitions for BC (BCE dammit) and AD, because no one ever corrected what my Sunday school teacher taught me. I hate that hesitation.
Do you think that CE means CHRISTIAN Era or COMMON Era? I was taught the latter, but it never made any sense to me AND it seems weasly. The former at least makes sense in a Chistian dominated society even if you don’t accept AD.
Christianity didn’t become big for a few centuries until after the death of Jesus, when it became legal in Rome to be Christian. Even then, it wasn’t really the dominant force for a while, so it’s not exactly appropriate in a historical sense to call it “Christian era”.
It makes no sense to call it the Christian Era if you’re talking about any society where Christianity wasn’t present or dominant. For example, how can the Aztecs in the 1300s be living in the Christian Era? It’s Common Era because non-Westerners and non-Christians are important, too.
“Christian Era” fits best, simply because it’s a dating system that bases its year zero on Christ’s birth, as decided on and believed by the Christians.
But what’s “common”? CE as Christian Era doesn’t bother me, versus AD, Year of Our Lord. The later is for believers. The former is based on the birth of Jesus, even if they got the year wrong. I don’t have to be a Christian to recognize that they created the calendar I use — part of it.
I thought “Christian era” was supposed to mean calendar that the Christians made up. I gather common era is the real intent, but that’s kind of presuming people use it everywhere.
I’m curious about BC. Everything seems to agree it stands for “before Christ”; what would Anderhail have been taught instead?
BCE – Before the Common Era. (Less ethnocentric than BC, since not everyone likes revolving around Jesus. However, still understandable and numerically equivalent for the folks who are accustomed to BC/AD.)
BCE and CE have been in scholarly use since the 1800s. Yay, scholars!
True. However the bc/ad calender came in way later than Christian dominance in Rome. It was applied retrospectively back to the supposed year of JCs birth and before that.
This oddly makes me want to have theology discussions with Billie and Joyce given she’s the only non-fundamentalist Christian in the group, I think, who takes her faith seriously.
It would just be WRONG and RIGHT on so many levels.
“The universe isn’t billions of years old!”
“Because God can’t make it that way?”
“He could but he didn’t!”
Normaly i think of she acting like this kinda cute. But there is something wrong this time for some reason. Maybe it’s because normaly she doesn’t put other people’s beliefs as below her on, and I kinda felt like that’s what she is doing now. Or I’m just exagerating, I dunno
Probably because Dina and Walky are the only two people who tell her to her face she’s wrong and stupid for believing otherwise. Dina says it more with science and Walky’s more of a jerk about it but the message remains the same. Joyce needs to remain somewhat civil towards Walky since he’s dating her college BFF but she doesn’t like him either.
It’s interesting that Joyce isn’t actually introducing Becky to anyone – she’s just pointing them out to her, almost like they were displays in a museum. I don’t think she’s intentionally being rude, per se (although it is rude of her to do so), I think she just doesn’t want to ‘mix’ Becky with her college life. Whether she’s doing that to keep Becky from being corrupted, or whatever reason, I’m not sure.
The only person in the strip above that Joyce actually likes is Sal, who is sleeping. If she runs into Sierra, Billie or Dorothy I’m sure they’ll get an actual introduction. No point making actual introductions between your visiting bestie and people you barely interact with.
Yes, which a lot of non-Catholic Christians seem to feel is actually not actually a branch of Christianity at all, and possibly actually some kind of heathen (possibly because of the treatment of saints? I don’t know).
Considering that Catholics also accept Jesus as their saviour, and believe in the Holy Trinity and what, I don’t get it myself, but some people seem to feel very strongly about it. Heh. Visited Newfoundland this past summer, and all the graveyards are labelled with little white signs: “Catholic”. “Anglican”.
No other labels that I saw so now I wonder if there’s another graveyard someplace for “Other”, or if only Catholics and Anglicans get to get planted there. It was a little weird.
Coming from a historically catholic province myself, people here tend to see the various denominations of protestantism as weird little disjointed sects.
I can’t wrap my mind around the fact it’s the opposite down there.
I’ve heard the accusation that the Catholics are polytheist for having a trinity of three gods. I’m not sure if the people that say so actually had a different doctrine where Jesus is less than divine, or just wanted to misrepresent a competing church.
Yup. All Christians believe in the trinity, so they can’t insult Catholics for that. So it’s veneration of the saints and Mary that they go after. The trinity’s just a lame dodge, anyway. They are essentially polytheistic. And Judaism, on paper, is henotheistic. Islam was the only one that was straight up monotheistic from the beginning.
Oh God, This is giving me flashbacks to my creationist days. I actually tried to convince my science teacher that the earth was 6000 years old. I made so many little comments like that in class. How did I make it so far without being punched?
She was a good teacher. She never got angry when I condescendingly explained evolution was “just a theory”. She just kept trying to teach me. I like teachers.
It really is embarrassing. Memory starts to fail, you’re losing control of your bladder, the fabric of spacetime starts sagging and wrinkling all over the place… What a universe wouldn’t do to be 6000 and young again!
After watching an astronomy video during Physics class today, that last panel kind of ticks me off, even though I acknowledge it’s most likely a joke on the author’s behalf. Just calm yourself, science brain…
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the Grand Tour of Indiana University students’ backs
Joyce: “This is Leslie. I keep trying to set her up with some of the cuter male professors, but she doesn’t seem to like any of them.”
Leslie: “How did you get in my house?”
Joyce: “This is Galasso. He makes good pizza (and subs).”
Galasso: “Guards! Seize them!”
Joyce: “This is Dexter. He’s the star of the best cartoon since McGee and Me!”
Dexter: “I don’t know how you’re doing this, but it’s totally fucking with my reality.”
Joyce: “This is ‘Other Jacob.’ Warning: It is NOT an electric nose-picker.”
Joyce: “This is Robin DeSanto, our totally rad representative”.
Robin: “Guards! Seize them!”
Joyce: “This is Willis. He says he draws this universe or something”
And then we have Joyce in the real world
LOL, I’m not sure if that’s good or bad.
“This is Walky, he’s got butts disease”
Poor Dina!
At least Joyce cares about her feelings, unlike Mary’s.
You have no idea how much I want Becky to side-eye her and say, “Joyce, uh–you know that’s true, right?” <.<
Oh, I know it won't happen. But I want it to.
If anyone could, Becky could. She’s got a drive to explore stuff despite, or maybe because of, it being forbidden to her.
But either way, I agree it would be awesome.
I love Joyce’s intro’s. She is close to the mark but….
But she has her own little twist on them.
The majority of Becky’s Speech Bubbles only have 2 words in them.
If she spoke more, Willis would have to pay her extra.
Ah, that’s why she didn’t answer her phone for like two years! They were in contract negotiations.
Or she’s keeping a secret. Characters who are keeping a secret don’t talk very much.
Huh, she knows Carla! Awesome. *Rubs hands together in anticipation of antagonizing*
… How’d she get into Sal’s room, anyway? Windows?
I wonder how Joyce’ll react to Carla’s secret. Maybe she can set her up with her sister?
Better than you would normally expect from someone like Joyce.
Is it a secret? Carla’s loud declaration on the morning of the dick invasion seemed to imply that she thinks the people in proximity know.
Didn’t Joyce come out of her room after Carla showed up to vent about the dingdong doodles?
It implies she thinks someone might know. Either she’s open about it, which gives me even more respect for her (and does resonate with herself in SP!), or she was willing to believe the worst had happened.
From Sal’s comments last night she prefers to keep it to herself because she umm . . . fears (not the best word) that people might consider her a freak. She wants to be an asshole and not a freak. Second year students and up probably already know about it, but not the newbies.
I’m betting on it being a secret. The line was just a throwaway line.
Might be missing a joke here, but since Carla’s asexual and Jocelyne is straight, I don’t think that will work.
The term “straight” is straight out confusing here.
I propose that instead of heterosexual and homosexual to describe people’s predelections we should use terms like androphil and gynophil.
Uh… sounds a touch cissexist.
You can be transgender and still straight. What you’re equipped with does not affect your orientation.
You can, certainly (I identify as a gay transwoman) but the fact remains “gay” and “straight” were conceived in a cisnormative vacuum and aren’t hugely appropriate to transpeople. Especially anyone nonbinary.
I don’t really like androphil and gynophil either because they exclude nonbinary too, just on the other end of the equation. There aren’t really any good words for sexuality that are trans inclusive honestly.
I think sometimes you just have to accept that one word won’t do it sometimes, and just go with a full sentence: “I consider myself x. I am attracted to y.”
How long have you known you were an algebra class variable?
It all started in algebra class. I was asked to find x. In a panic, I thought quickly and bluffed. “I consider myself x.” It wasn’t until months later that I realized that I really did feel more comfortable thinking of myself as x.
I am attracted to differentiable functions, because I like to lie tangent to their curves.
The best answer is to draw an arrow and make a note, “here it is”
They’re def not appropriate for non binary folk, but saying that they don’t apply to trans people seems shitty to me. I am a cis lady dating a trans girl, and it upsets me when people say/imply that we aren’t really a lesbian couple because we’re not both cisgender. When you say it doesn’t really apply, it seems like you’re saying trans people aren’t really the gender they identify as (which since you are trans yourself I am guessing I am misunderstanding you). Or is it the words themselves which imply everyone is binary?
> Or is it the words themselves which imply everyone is binary?
I *think* that is what n0z3k1ll3r is referring to.
I’m sexagesimal myself.
> “gay” and “straight” were conceived in a cisnormative vacuum
Oh, that makes sense. I need to do some reading.
My main concern is that people take that logic and go a step further to invalidate relationships and orientations. Melissa’s comment further down talks about it some, and I’ve seen it happen too many times.
So there’s where my knee-jerk “whoa what’s going on here” reaction is coming from…
(Disclosure: I’m non-binary and pansexual/queer, so other than this I don’t have a lot to say on the subject.)
up, up, go up for Melissa’s comment!!
Wait… Carla is a transwoman? I never caught that.
The author has said so in the comments, but it has not been explicitly stated in the comic itself.
If you think that’s so, what kind of terminology do you consider to be appropriate for folks who don’t give a shit about gender, and only care what kind of equipment they are attracted to?
I think that’s the point. Androphile and gynophile don’t say what you are, just what you like. We can come up with other terms for liking both, or nothing, if you need them. They’re a lot more useful than ‘homo’ and ‘hetero’, that’s for sure.
That would give a whole new, or not so new, take in Bibliophile.
Actually there is a fairly common term – you just replace the ‘sexual’ with the ‘romantic’. So you can be a panromantic nb, or a homoromantic asexual. Or even the far lesser known possibility of being biromantic heterosexual etc.
Billie hasn’t been there to lock the door. As Sal exits solely by windows she rarely bothers.
Assuming she still does that in this universe…
And it suddenly occurs to me that College age Danny has a thing for women who don’t use doors across the time lines…
She definitely still does that in this universe. She’s done it to Billy too many times to count.
Shared bathroom, and it seems like Sal and Billie aren’t the best at locking the door to their room (or it may not even lock, which would be dumb).
I gather that the shared bathroom’s doors only lock from inside the bathroom, so the room’s occupants can lock the other half of the suite out of the bathroom, but not out of the room.
If they’re anything like the ones in the dorm I lived in, they have locks on both sides.
Theoretically you can unlock them from inside the bathroom with a key, but at some point they changed the door locks and they no longer matched the bathroom locks, so nobody had keys to get out if they got locked in the bathroom by their roommate.
I lived in suites like that for two years. We never really bothered with those locks, especially after we realized our keys didn’t work and it would be easy to accidentally lock somebody in the bathroom. You’re already trusting one other person able to get into your room, might as well trust three.
‘Course, I never had Joyce for a suitemate. I had four different suitemates over those years, and all of them respected that an unlocked door isn’t an invitation. The fact that they also had an unlocked door probably helped.
A lock is just an illusion of safety, anyhow. A person will either chose to respect a closed door, or not. A locked door is a delay at most. Which is still a practical thing to have on an outside door or on your car, but not so much on any interior door.
Joyce you are so far off about, Mary. She’s really a demon from Hell.
Demons from Earth are scarier.
Says you
And SCARCER!
so excited to hear her intro to Dorothy *-* her super super gay intro
“She’s super awesome even if she has this crazy idea that God doesn’t exist…”
“but I don’t think it worked very well since she seems to hate everyone.”
**snorts cider due to sudden laughter**
You would be grumpy too if everyone talked about you like that.
I guess Joyce hasn’t gotten the memo that Mary’s important now. Willis said so himself. The days of Mary hate are over.
Important =/= Good
2015’s gonna be the year of Mary, you’ll see……YOU’LL ALL SEE!! Ö_Ö
*cue maniacal laughter*
Did you just give her umlaut eyelashes?
Like Blaine hate.
Dina just watch’s. Or does she?
Dina likes to watch.
Dina: “They’re multiplying!”
I bet she’s thinking am I going to have to completely own you with logic in front of your friends for like a third time in two months?
As someone who wears exactly that hat to bed every night, seeing it in a comic made me more than a little excited. Mine is to keep my hair curly rather than straight, but still. ALL GLORY TO THE HAIR.
I was just thinking, I wonder if any students actually AT Indiana University have seen DoA…
The more important question is, do they also comment?
I… almost never comment. Once in a blue moon. I do go to IU, though. I also recommend the comic to people like crazy (I even recommended it to my students when I taught as a peer instructor a few semesters running). I haven’t been especially successful in those attempts, as far as I can tell. Still. I can’t be the only Hoosier here.
Welcome to DoA.
I’ve definitely seen at least a few other students from IU commenting here. Dunno if they are regular readers though. I imagine David could get a good idea based on the hits from the IU IP block, if he wanted to.
haha, so y’all are like, “I’ve BEEN there!!!” whereas a bunch of us are still surprised to find out these fantastic webcomic places are real
Proud Hoosier Alum, now a “townie.” 🙂
And, while I missed his most recent visit to Our Fair City (due to a family member being in the hospital), I have met Mr. Willis when he did signings at Vintage Phoenix (yes, “As featured in ‘DoA'”)
Life long townie here. Not sure, but I think Roz called me a hick once. It felt bad.
Not current, but I was a grad student there.
Silk bonnets for bedtime for the win!
Joyce I please don’t start up about whats embarrassing, Don’t you dare go there.
Dina gets mad and forces Joyce to take a biology class.
Better yet Dina gets mad and tricks her into taking a sex ed class
Give her a break. She just fainted and fell in a bunch of old human hair.
proving my point and ya how the hell is she still alive ?
I revived her
The detritus merged with Joyce, forming a symbiotic relationship.
So that is how she got done showering before Dina!
Dina stayed in line for the clean(er) stalls. She understands biology and microoganisms well enough that it was worth the wait.
That’s where the clothes came from in the last comic!
Joyce’s got over 9000 extra lives
It really is embarrassing Joyce. That you don’t believe that.
Yeah. I feel embarrassed for her.
Dina: I’m taking this from a girl who had to Google what a strap-on is because she thought it was some sort of hat ?
no offence Kernanator
To be fair, they do make pretty rad hats for those who don’t mind a little ridicule. Nothing like a phallic protrusion on your head to make you feel like a champ.
Or like a sexy unicorn?
Willing to bet Dina also does not know what a strap-on is.
Except it’s not about beliefs. It’s about accepting facts. That the Earth is approximately billions of years old is a fact.
“The thing about science is that it remains true whether you believe in it or not”
Everyone has a subjective view of reality — when you speak of your true beliefs, the ones you’re really confident about, what it looks like to you is like speaking facts, regardless of whether you’re actually right or wrong.
So that you say “Earth is billions of years old” merely means that you are really quite confident in your belief that the Earth is billions of years old. You’d bet your life on that belief, and be comfortable doing so.
Someone on the other hand saying “I believe the Earth is billions of years old” signals that they believe this, but that they’re not quite as confident about it — if they were really 100% or thereabout in their belief they’d not need to preface this with “I believe”.
The thing is that I don’t need to be confident in that fact; there is tons of science to prove it, and I’m willing to change my stance if there’s research to suggest otherwise.
Also, the words “I believe” doesn’t necessarily imply doubt.
“The thing is that I don’t need to be confident in that fact; there is tons of science to prove it, and I’m willing to change my stance if there’s research to suggest otherwise.”
That just means you’re *correctly* confident about this fact.
The example you gave from the Book of Mormon very *clearly* shows the doubt in question that I’m talking about — in pretty much every verse, it shows that the very reason the guy shouts “I believe” is that he’s been having a crisis of faith about his religion and he feels the emotional need to reaffirm it.
It sounds like arguing semantics, but you seem to be conflating “beliefs” with “ideas”. I would not say that I believe in something that’s so far shown to be quite true, but rather that I “think” that something is correct. 🙂 Unlike Elder Price, I don’t need to reaffirm that the Earth is billions of years old, or that animals evolve over time; I just have to look at the multitude of scientific evidence that backs up those claims.
I’m an evolutionist myself (I can count on my hand the number of creationists I’ve met) but to say Evolution is true/fact is to do a disservice of scientific method. Nothing in science is “fact” so much as it is “theory that has been rigorously tested to the point where we can pretty much accept it”
Evolution and Creationism are both theories. The difference lies in why we should adopt them;
Evolution offers an explanitory account that has been tested on a smaller scale and holds up in principle while offering a more complete and detailed explaination of the world that seems pretty compelling and has stood up to a century and a half of scrutiny. While difficult to wholly falsify, it is committed to several smaller elements which have held up pretty well (though I’ve heard challenges to specifics, apparently Lamarck is making a come back in microbiological evolution).
Creationism doesn’t explain a lot of things; vestigal features, similarities between specifies, artificial breeding are all pretty much unexplained. Further, many of the commitments it makes have largely been falsified by reputible studies; these can be rejected but only by refusing a lot of theories (like evolution) which also explain a lot.
So, yeah. I think a serious Empiricist’s objection should lie more on the grounds that the Creationism is a weak theory that demands a lot of good highly useful theories be discarded than that Evolution as it currently stands is “Fact”.
Especially now since even the pope is saying that the Earth is that old.
If the Pope says that it is, that confirms for Joyce that it is not.
Actually, the Vatican has held that position since at least 1950. The recent pope’s claim wasn’t a turnaround, it was just him saying “by the way, folks, I’d like to REMIND you that this is our position, so please stop confusing us with the Protestant fundies”.
Becky doesn’t say anything in response to Joyce’s last comment.
A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS, HMMMMMM?
HMMMMMM, QUITE.
Did you notice that her smile gets less and less perky with each new intro? By time they reached Dina, she was either wondering what kind of awful dorm this is OR what kind of awful person Joyce has become. You’re thinkng the latter, Kernanater and Agent Keen?
Of cause, everyone knows that Arceus created everything and you can capture him with a Master Ball.
too bad we don’t have a technology that can literally store gods as energy at present.
Sure we do! It’s called a battery. There are no gods I know of that can’t be stored in a AA. Well, not counting fictional ones, of course.
Eh? What’s that, Chatterton? Come along, my boy!
“And here’s Billie. She’s totally in love with some boy. Right?.. Billie?..”
“For some reason she seems to be friendly with the RA. Weird, cause they used to be enemies”
“Nothing that a super-religious person like myself could imagine…”
Mary’s introduction is the best XD
I always thought that Bathtism didn’t take, probably had to drain and clean the fuck out of that pool when they were done with her.
Her being religious about bathing might explain her nakedness at odd times. But I think you actually meant to say baptism 😉
Well after all my built up tension this feels anticlimactic. I guess we’ll have to wait just a little bit longer for the big reveal – or the big unreveal.
Does it count as “born again” if you were born into the faith? I thought to be born again you had to be born as something else first? Born-again Christians thus being the (usually overzealous) adult converts?
Everyone’s born a sinner. It’s repenting and going through all the pageantry of properly becoming Christian which makes you “born again.” In my church, you weren’t properly Christian until you were baptized. You can’t just naturally be Christian due to your upbringing.
So wait, if you sin after you become born again, does that make you… unborn? :O
Undead…
Undead undead undead
I know that for some sects there’s something like being born again which is actually discovering (via feelings!) that your name is in the holy book of life, in which case you’re saved no matter what the hell you do. Rape, murder, all good. Don’t know if they called that “born again”, though.
WTF?!?
It sounds like you’re talking about predestination, Begbert2, which is a predominantly Calvinist idea. The gist of it (from my sinful atheist understanding, at least) is that the universe was created by God at the beginning of time, fixed and unalterable; His will is absolute, fate spins out like clockwork, and free will is an illusion. As such, salvation exists, but the Elect have been chosen by God at the beginning of time (as have the damned) and everything will play out according to the Divine Plan. As such, salvation is unconditional and absolute – but since God is pulling all the strings, the Elect will not act in a way contradicting their status. So the problem of unconditional grace conflicting with mortal sin never arises – the Elect are manufactured in such a way that they do not sin.
Of course, non-Calvinists can point out flaws in this logic – personally I think that predestination contradicts free will and would invalidate all sin, all good, and indeed render irrelevant and pointless Christ’s sacrifice (along with the universe in general) since humanity would be merely meat puppets dancing to God’s tune – but then, as I am definitely not one of the Elect, I would think that.
I’m mostly pulling from half-remembered lessons about what the pilgrims believed, so I could be wrong here, but I don’t recall it being based on predestination so much as God being infallible. The Book of Life (mentioned once or twice in scripture) is supposed to list all those who are/will be saved, and since it’s God’s book it can’t be wrong. So whether or not we have free will or are fully predestined, that book is still there, and it can’t be wrong about who’ll be saved no matter what we do.
But you’re right that the theory was that persons who felt the fuzzy feelings and decided they were saved were supposed to also be good. And of course the community always had the ‘out’ that if they decided somebody was too naughty to be pre-saved then they could declare his moment of realization as mistaken or a demonic deception. (Which their own salvations definitely weren’t.)
The Pilgrims were Brownists. The Brownists were an Anglican splinter movement influenced by the Puritans (the main difference is that the Puritans wanted to reform the Church of England from within, while the Brownists broke off), who in turn were heavily influenced by Calvinist theology.
The Anglicans christen babies at birth (which is a parental choice), and then confirm them as adult Christians who are there by their own choice when they’re about seventeen or so, after which they’re allowed to take Communion.
Do you guys have Anglicans in the States? I hear that Protestants are the same thing, but the head of the Anglican church is the British monarch (so there’s a picture of the Queen in all the churches, same as in Canadian schools) which I find unlikely for American churches; and they allow female priests and gay marriage, which I’m reasonably sure is a combination no American church has (at least, not that I’ve heard).
So I guess if anyone wants a gay wedding and still have a church wedding, come on up to Canada?
It looks like sort of?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Church_in_America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopal_Church_%28United_States%29
As far as US churches allowing women to be priests and gay marriage, I think there are some starting to move that way. For one, I’m pretty sure my grandma’s church ordains women, and I recently saw that they were planning on beginning to allow performance of same-sex marriages in states where it was legal (I think starting this year?).
We call them Episcopalians instead of Anglicans, but we have them. They share a lot of practices with the Lutheran church I grew up going to, it seems.
Of course, being an openly bisexual born-again pagan, I wonder how Joyce would react to me. 😉
US Episcopalians are our branch of the worldwide Anglican communion. No, they don’t swear loyalty to the Queen; they’re still part of the communion. They have not just female priests but an female archbishop, and voted last year to allow gay marriage. The United Church of Christ was years ahead of them on both counts, with their first woman pastor in 1853. The Presbyterians have had women pastors and are in the process of affirming gay marriage. The Unitarian Universalists have affirmed marriage equality since 1973 and women pastors since probably a long time ago. Quakers were founded by women leaders and the more liberal side supports gay marriage.
Quite a lot of US churches have female pastors. Gay marriage is rarer but present.
“Protestants” are in no way the same thing as Anglicans; it’s a broad category including Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, etc. One could argue about whether Anglicans are Protestant, as they didn’t come out of the Protestant Reformation per se, but the Episcopal Church calls itself “Protestant and Catholic”.
Most Protestant churches are pretty decentralized, so even if the synod doesn’t support gay marriage, a local pastor might marry you. The reverse might be true as well for e.g. the UCC.
Really? Awesome! 😀
Sadly up here we pretty much only hear about the nutbars, like Westboro (who oughtn’t be considered Christian at all, IMO) and pretty much nothing at all about the more gay- and women-friendly ones. So that’s great news.
I believe it’s a reference to baptism (and possibly tangentially to the eternal life provided by Christ’s sacrifice?) being a ‘rebirth’. And, as my grandma told me more than a few times, you don’t go to heaven if you’re not baptized (‘reborn’).
Or I should just refresh and see someone that knows this stuff a lot better than me comment. 😛
If that was the case, then those guys who was hanging on their own crosses with Jesus wouldn’t be going to Heaven like Jesus claimed.
They got in on direct recommendation of the Head Dude himself.
“It’s cool, they’re with me.”
Jesus knows that you can’t go to heaven with out a posse.
http://youtu.be/WlBiLNN1NhQ
So always look on the bright side of death…(Whistle)
Just before you draw your terminal breath…(Whistle)
Life’s a piece of shit, when you look at it
Life’s a laugh and death’s a joke, it’s true
You’ll see its all a show, keep ’em laughin as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you
Still counts. Evangelicals don’t do infant baptisms. Even if you’re raised in the church, you’re expected to make a formal profession of faith once you’re old enough to truly understand what you’re doing. Only then would you be considered “born-again”.
Some branches of Christianity believe in adult baptism, that you can only accept Jesus as your savior when you are grown, versus, eg, being baptised as an infant and have godparents accept for you.
The Baptists, notably, only practice “believer’s baptism” and not infant baptism. It’s one of their defining tenets.
That description of Mary was pretty accurate
Why does Carla get her own room? …..Is there something I’m missing here? I feel like there is.
She’s transgender. She probably wants to keep it a secret.
More generally speaking, she could have paid for one. After freshman* year, anyone who wanted a private dorm just paid 1.5x to 3x the rent (depending on which dorm).
*freshmen might’ve been able to do it, too, but I sure didn’t know any who did
in our dorms, anyway, I didn’t (re-)read the IU brochure to see if that’s an option
Why would IU be so restrictive about its single dorms? Where I went to school, single dorms were for anyone who doesn’t want to share a bedroom with a total stranger and is willing to pay for it. And it doesn’t cost 3x the normal price, even if you have a double as a single. In fact, I don’t think a double as a single is even 2x the price.
I’m saying where I went (which I mistakenly left out of the original comment), the “regular” dorm rooms were optionable as singles, and prices ranged from 1.5x to 3x rent based on location [close to the student center = 2x or 3x, out in BFE = 1.5x]
and I just realized I may have misinterpreted your comment:
Why would IU (or any college) be restrictive about dorm rooms? I bet they aren’t–it’s just that Joyce doesn’t realize it’s an option because 1. her parents are the ones paying for it (and what college kid straight out of high school and getting a free ride is gonna look at the paperwork) and 2. the point of living on campus is to socialize, which is hindered by hermiting like an old misanthropic grump.
That’s reasonable. But in earlier discussions of the topic, a lot of people have stated that her having the room to herself is strong evidence of her transgender status, and that when they hear about somebody having his or her own room, they suspect the person is a transexual. Having one’s own room clearly is more rare in some places than where I went to school. When I was about to start school, I understood very little of the paperwork I saw, but I did understand that having my own room was an option, but sharing a room would save me money.
But is it as secret as Ethan’s ‘leanings’?
Jesus Christ, lightning commenter, I just posted that like two minutes ago. Are you the Helpful Information Fairy?
We can be quick little comment imps when we want to. ^_^
They (we?) are legion.
We Legion are pretty good until that Jesus fellow forces us into some pigs instead. 😛
Accurate internet metaphor is accurate *shrug* honestly I just said that because I like the thought of it. I don’t think it applies to most of this comic’s crazy customary comment crew. Ack, alliteration always attacks abruptly.
She’s way too open about it for that to be the case. It could be that she’s still legally male according to her birth certificate and ID, so she can’t have any female roommates, but they’re letting her live in a female hall as a compromise.
It could have just been an executive decision from the dorm staff. they may have worried that a girl (or her parents) might be offended, or object to, having a trans roommate, and decided that soaking the extra expense was worth avoiding a potential lawsuit.
Don’t think Willis hasn’t thought about this – I wouldn’t be surprised if a future comic expands on this.
It’s kind of weird thinking about her being someone’s daughter other than Joe and Rachel. I’d just gotten used to them being parents, and now they’re not anymore, but the daughter is still around. And I can’t really imagine anyone else filling that space.
Time Machine.
Honestly though, I’m sort of hoping she’ll be Joe’s cousin or something. Or at least have a suspiciously similar looking Dad.
…assuming we see her parents, at all. Until we do, the Time machine is my head canon.
Many colleges don’t allow transgender students to share rooms with cisgender students.
That’s bad if you wanted a room-mate, but great news if you prefer a room to yourself.
I don’t know if it’s don’t allow, but most trans students prefer their own room and can be accommodated. At my school whether you got a single or double (or triple) was by lottery, but when applying I did mention I was trans. To this day I’m not if I got a single because of that or just luck.
Has that been revealed in the strip?
I mean, that’s what immediately sprung to mind when I read the ‘she gets a single room all to herself’ bit, and considering characters here have character elements from the Shortpacked universe in somewhat different forms, her being transgender in this universe makes sense.
She is canonically transgender according to the authors tumblr, which is just, so great. I’m so pleased about that.
And she references it during the Whiteboard Dongs incident. When she got shouty about the dong on her whiteboard being a hatecrime, that’s what she thought she was getting hatecrime’d over.
Also in that “you’ve got height” “yeah there’s a reason” exchange back at the beginning of this storyline.
Basically the actual references in the comic have been consistent with, but not really suggestive of it.
And here I thought she referred to the awful drawings -as- the hate crime, in a jokey manner.
I don’t follow the author’s tumblr, so thanks for the confirmation.
Willis has confirmed it in the comments, and it’s been very heavily implied in the story.
And it just warms my queer little heart to see her. <3
She's even got the same skinny hips I do in this comic!
Since she’s trans, she might have been barred from sharing a room with a cis girl.
“Is it MY fault I’m saddled with all the exposition?”–Atomic Shakespeare
Oh wow, I got here before the comment thread was super long and… now I have no idea what to say for once. >.>
So does Carla need to go to college? She’s yet to throw any pies, and doesn’t have much of a reason to learn much. I kinda figured her to be a bit more like Mike in how he feeds off of other’s strife…
If she wanted to throw pies, she’d be in clown school – wait, does IU have a clowning major?
From what I heard, Clowning class might be better than a Bachelor Arts degree if you wanted a job afterwards these days.
Ain’t THAT the fuckin’ truth. >__<
I was amused to discover that the most career-useful course I took for my BA was a student-taught class on stilt-walking.
Or a bachelor of science degree for any science other than geology, with an emphasis on oil and expensive rocks.
My alma mater literally had a basket weaving course. I think they took it out before I arrived but it existed.
But was it remedial?
Carla’s really not all that tall if you factor in the 4-5 inches of roller skates. In fact, she’d be about the same height as Joyce. Unless she’s wearing normal shoes right now and Joyce is a liar.
4-5 inches taller? I can see 1-2 inch increase in height with skates but 4-5 inches is a bit too much.
Roller blades maybe, but old-school skates are pretty huge. At least 3 or 4 inches for certain.
She’s wearing these XD
But are they as good as these MIGHTY BOOTS!
These boots are made for Walky?
“This is my gay boyfriend Ethan. But he’s not really gay. Just kind of gay.”
Joyce: “And this is Roz she’s pretty much what you call a wench and between you and me I think she has a phew diseases, nothing deadly I’m shore.”
Roz: I can hear you jackass.
Who even says wench anymore?
Also it’s ‘few’ and ‘sure’
They’re called puns
Are they puns if no one understands them?
If a tree puns in a forest, and nobody understands it…
If a disturbingly sexy looking tree falls in a forest and you don’t see it, does it still give you wood?
Like this?
Joyce should be shown that video. ^_^
Joyce is just adorable today!
Am I the only one that considers Joyce incredibly rude and creepy for climbing Sal’s bunk to look at her and talk about her when she’s sleeping? Seriously, why does Becky go along with this?
To me, any comic with Joyce climbing into sleeping people’s beds (this far Sal, Billie and Ethan) is -100 points for Joyce, it really bothers me.
Eh. Me and my best friend are in our late twenties, and she still just lets herself into my house and climbs into my bed to wake me up. I’m happy if she confines herself to raiding my food and mooching my WiFi and lets me sleep. Or sometimes she just gets in the bed and goes to sleep after work, because I have an AWESOME mattress. Like, I know some people would find that incredibly creepy, but…I don’t know. For some people, it just isn’t a big deal for friends. Sal is likely going, “Joyce, shut up, it’s quiet time”. Ethan didn’t mind, because he’s Ethan and Ethan is pretty chill. Billie is a cheerleader and likely used to an open sleeping arrangement. Now, if someone tells Joyce she needs to not be so morning-friendly and open with them, and Joyce continues to do so, like how Dorothy would likely feel…that’s a different kettle of fish.
I think Sal did say that to her last time Joyce crashed in on her sleep!
Didn’t Sal grab her by the throat?
My thinking her rude is for entirely different reasons.
Me too. Didn’t Sal or Billie call her out about this once, or am I misremembering? Joyce and Sal aren’t really close friends either.
It’s rude to talk about people like this fullstop, but I feel this can just be allowed to pass as just a joke.
“Am I the only one –“
No. Never. If you start a question with those five words, the answer is always, always “no”.
Yipes, Joyce hasn’t a clue about Carla?! How and when will this truth bomb be deployed?
Joyce will likely be very, very confused. Hopefully it leads to a learning experience that allows her to be understanding of her sister, if and when she chooses to reveal herself as a she.
Right, those two stories might indeed dovetail together – in some surprising fashion.
It’s funny that Joyce thinks Dina is the only one who believes that the earth is that old.
*universe
Well, I think Dina and Walky are the only ones who have confronted her about that fact (I’m too lazy to go back and re-read “Guess Who’s Coming to Galasso’s” to double-check), and she already said that she’s not going to introduce Becky to Walky, so…
I don’t think Dorothy even confirmed Dina and Walky’s statements about it, though if she did, Joyce might be in denial enough to think she was just being polite to her boyfriend.
What? The universe existed before humans? What would be the point of that? Don’t you know that the universe was made special just for us?
/sarcasm
It’s amazing how egocentric most religions are.
It did, for 5 days.
Which begs the question, why would a supposedly omnipotent and omniscient being take multiple days to do something, when it could do it all at once? Seems pointlessly inefficient to me.
Kinda shows naivete, like the rest of this comic. I love her analysis of Mary, though.
shows HER naivete, I mean
I dunno, when you think something if obvious and common sense its very easy to fall into the trap of thinking everyone else thinks like you.
And a lot of the people who don’t assume that instead think they are part of a tiny elite who “See things as they really are”
I know Willis has said that he’s going to make an in-universe confirmation of Carla’s trans* status, but I’ve decided to keep track of how many times it’s alluded to before being outright stated.
This is #3. And it implies that either the folks in charge of assigning rooms were overly cautious about her status (whether due to their own transphobia or covering their asses in case her potential roommate was transphobic) or that Carla hasn’t finished transitioning… or both. (For the record, I don’t give a fuck about what genitalia she currently has, and frankly hope that it doesn’t come up in the comic since it shouldn’t matter [unless it being brought up is so that Willis can spread the fact that it shouldn’t matter to anyone but the person in question, and it’s nobody else’s business unless the trans* person wants ot share it with them].)
#1 was during “The Whiteboard Ding Dong Bandit” when she thought the penis on her whiteboard was a hate crime before discovering that all the doors were marked and deciding that it was actually hilarious.
#2 was when Sal referred to Carla’s height when they were talking about Roller Derby before she decided to challenge whether Sal could skate.
Also, for the record, in reference to the above about trans* people’s genitals: I’m bi-gender trans*. One doesn’t need to be trans* to care about basic respect and manners, but that’s why I’m personally so emotionally invested in the subject.
Yeah, I counted the same. And ditto on the rest of the stuff, except I’m more agender.
Also, it has to count for something that her Walkyverse (is that right?) self is also trans – not just a car, but assumed male at…I’m not sure what, it wasn’t explained…, considering that the gender and sexual orientation of characters is basically the same across the two universes. So, kind of #4?
Most places assign dorms based on legal gender, which has varying requirements to change based on the state…IU actually does have some gender-neutral housing, though.
The “Social Justice Wing” sounds like it belongs in the Superfriends show.
Leave Dina alone *tackles*
Is Mary carrying a bottle? Should I be concerned about Mary carrying a bottle?
Pretty sure that’s a sports water bottle. Goes with the whole “never seen without a wrist-sweatband” thing.
Joyce must have rolled very high on her perception check to notice Dina there! Maybe the detritus gave her SUPER POWER?!
That’s why Becky is looking so confused in the last panel. She can’t see Dina.
Dina made herself visible to Joyce only to hear her assessment of her.
I must admit, when I first saw panel 1, I thought they were shoving an elephant into a garbage shoot. But then, I’m old, and my eyes see elephants in weird places, I guess
Actually it’s more weird that most people don’t notice the elephants everywhere. Standing. Watching. Waiting.
Oh, we all notice the elephants. It’s just that nobody wants to discuss them while they’re in the room.
They never respond to my polite attempts at conversation. ;-;
So we just kinda chill. Never speaking…
Also, apparently there’s a bunch of songs people listed that go with characters.
Carla’s should totally be Highway Star. It’s perfect for her.
Even though I cannot remember how long ago I stopped being what little bit of Christian I was, to this day I still have that slight mental hesitation every time I hear BCE history of any sort that doesn’t conform with Sunday school. Hell, thanks to that, it took me until the edge of 30 years old to realize the actual definitions for BC (BCE dammit) and AD, because no one ever corrected what my Sunday school teacher taught me. I hate that hesitation.
Do you think that CE means CHRISTIAN Era or COMMON Era? I was taught the latter, but it never made any sense to me AND it seems weasly. The former at least makes sense in a Chistian dominated society even if you don’t accept AD.
Christianity didn’t become big for a few centuries until after the death of Jesus, when it became legal in Rome to be Christian. Even then, it wasn’t really the dominant force for a while, so it’s not exactly appropriate in a historical sense to call it “Christian era”.
It makes no sense to call it the Christian Era if you’re talking about any society where Christianity wasn’t present or dominant. For example, how can the Aztecs in the 1300s be living in the Christian Era? It’s Common Era because non-Westerners and non-Christians are important, too.
“Christian Era” fits best, simply because it’s a dating system that bases its year zero on Christ’s birth, as decided on and believed by the Christians.
But what’s “common”? CE as Christian Era doesn’t bother me, versus AD, Year of Our Lord. The later is for believers. The former is based on the birth of Jesus, even if they got the year wrong. I don’t have to be a Christian to recognize that they created the calendar I use — part of it.
True but neither were the Aztecs living in a common era with Christians in 1300.
I thought “Christian era” was supposed to mean calendar that the Christians made up. I gather common era is the real intent, but that’s kind of presuming people use it everywhere.
I’m curious about BC. Everything seems to agree it stands for “before Christ”; what would Anderhail have been taught instead?
BCE – Before the Common Era. (Less ethnocentric than BC, since not everyone likes revolving around Jesus. However, still understandable and numerically equivalent for the folks who are accustomed to BC/AD.)
BCE and CE have been in scholarly use since the 1800s. Yay, scholars!
True. However the bc/ad calender came in way later than Christian dominance in Rome. It was applied retrospectively back to the supposed year of JCs birth and before that.
Mary is just mad because Joyce interrupted her upcoming attempts to ruin Billie and Ruth’s happiness.
Huh, I wonder if Becky’s going to tell Joyce that she agrees with Dina during some point of her stay
I was thinking the same thing after seeing Becky’s expression on the last panel.
“In” he last panel.
This oddly makes me want to have theology discussions with Billie and Joyce given she’s the only non-fundamentalist Christian in the group, I think, who takes her faith seriously.
It would just be WRONG and RIGHT on so many levels.
“The universe isn’t billions of years old!”
“Because God can’t make it that way?”
“He could but he didn’t!”
🙂
Normaly i think of she acting like this kinda cute. But there is something wrong this time for some reason. Maybe it’s because normaly she doesn’t put other people’s beliefs as below her on, and I kinda felt like that’s what she is doing now. Or I’m just exagerating, I dunno
Actually she does, she just usually doesn’t have anyone to talk to about all the sinning around her.
She has definitely gone agro on Dina face to face.
Probably because Dina and Walky are the only two people who tell her to her face she’s wrong and stupid for believing otherwise. Dina says it more with science and Walky’s more of a jerk about it but the message remains the same. Joyce needs to remain somewhat civil towards Walky since he’s dating her college BFF but she doesn’t like him either.
Yes, that’s so. I wonder though why she loses it when they challenge her. It seems like maybe she’s not so secure in her dogmas.
They seemed to get along OK .
whoops – here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/assimilation/
Her own*
Thanks again for another priceless Dina appearance. Have her appear more frequently, and I might start donating again.
Don’t move a muscle. She can’t see you if you don’t move! She’s an Atheistosaurus Rex and she’s very euphoric.
It’s interesting that Joyce isn’t actually introducing Becky to anyone – she’s just pointing them out to her, almost like they were displays in a museum. I don’t think she’s intentionally being rude, per se (although it is rude of her to do so), I think she just doesn’t want to ‘mix’ Becky with her college life. Whether she’s doing that to keep Becky from being corrupted, or whatever reason, I’m not sure.
The only person in the strip above that Joyce actually likes is Sal, who is sleeping. If she runs into Sierra, Billie or Dorothy I’m sure they’ll get an actual introduction. No point making actual introductions between your visiting bestie and people you barely interact with.
Probably more just a function of saving space on the page. Introducing Becky would double the length of each introduction.
i wonder what joyces’ reaction to the pope saying that evolution and the big bang are real. i feel that she might explode.
The pope is Catholic though…
Yes, which a lot of non-Catholic Christians seem to feel is actually not actually a branch of Christianity at all, and possibly actually some kind of heathen (possibly because of the treatment of saints? I don’t know).
Considering that Catholics also accept Jesus as their saviour, and believe in the Holy Trinity and what, I don’t get it myself, but some people seem to feel very strongly about it. Heh. Visited Newfoundland this past summer, and all the graveyards are labelled with little white signs: “Catholic”. “Anglican”.
No other labels that I saw so now I wonder if there’s another graveyard someplace for “Other”, or if only Catholics and Anglicans get to get planted there. It was a little weird.
Coming from a historically catholic province myself, people here tend to see the various denominations of protestantism as weird little disjointed sects.
I can’t wrap my mind around the fact it’s the opposite down there.
I’ve heard the accusation that the Catholics are polytheist for having a trinity of three gods. I’m not sure if the people that say so actually had a different doctrine where Jesus is less than divine, or just wanted to misrepresent a competing church.
Well, some Protestant sects are nontrinitarian, but not al. AIUI what usually gets derided as “polytheism” is the saints.
Yup. All Christians believe in the trinity, so they can’t insult Catholics for that. So it’s veneration of the saints and Mary that they go after. The trinity’s just a lame dodge, anyway. They are essentially polytheistic. And Judaism, on paper, is henotheistic. Islam was the only one that was straight up monotheistic from the beginning.
Except not all Christians: see nontrinitarianism for a list of exceptions.
And bears do shit in the woods.
Trust me on this.
LGBT dorms are awesome. Having your own dorm is even better. For a while, at least.
Oh God, This is giving me flashbacks to my creationist days. I actually tried to convince my science teacher that the earth was 6000 years old. I made so many little comments like that in class. How did I make it so far without being punched?
Teachers, from my experience, take pity on the ignorant; they’re there to help. 🙂
She was a good teacher. She never got angry when I condescendingly explained evolution was “just a theory”. She just kept trying to teach me. I like teachers.
It really is embarrassing. Memory starts to fail, you’re losing control of your bladder, the fabric of spacetime starts sagging and wrinkling all over the place… What a universe wouldn’t do to be 6000 and young again!
…I was wondering how they were dealing with that. I didn’t really come out until after college, so. *Shrugs*
Ah shit. At first sight right here.
more than a year ago, becky and dina (bena? dicky? beckasaur?) TOTALLY FELL IN LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT LOOK AT THOSE FACES AAAAH
After watching an astronomy video during Physics class today, that last panel kind of ticks me off, even though I acknowledge it’s most likely a joke on the author’s behalf. Just calm yourself, science brain…