If you’re going to be depressed, at least have the decency to be upset about it!
Seriously though, ever see the Depression comics on Hyperbole and a Half? There’s a bit where the main character tells a friend she might be suicidal, and she says so perfectly matter-of-factly and her friend is the one who is in tears and needs emotional support. Last panel reminds me of that.
right? experience it and you’ll know. You have this cold detached humor about it. Like, “wow, I can’t believe this, I actually wanna kill myself. That’s hilarious. When did it get this bad?” Depression sucks bro.
The first time I told anyone I was suicidal–after feeling that way off and on for more than twenty years–I was so nervous that I was shaking violently. I thought she would have me committed on the spot. But three therapists, two psychiatrists, two boyfriends, an academic advisor, and some close friends later, it’s easier to come out as having severe clinical depression and wanting to kill myself. It’s just like coming out as gay becomes easier. Doesn’t change the suicidal feelings (or the gayness), but it makes it easier to admit and talk about. And if someone responds with, “OMG, I had no idea you were going through this!,” my feelings are, “Meh, that’s my life” and it sounds not serious at all . . .
I was hanging out with my friends a while back, and someone brought up Robin Williams and that it looked like suicide. Somebody said something like “I don’t know why someone would do that,” and I said “I don’t really know why anyone wouldn’t.” I wasn’t even thinking it was a big deal, it just seemed like the right thing to say.
That’s the thing about depression… everything sucks, but you just don’t have the energy to actually take it seriously.
You know because of the name that I use I often get people’s combined sympathy and fear, but the truth is I use it because of this very fact, Its not about the fact that suicide is some kind of joke or that I even want to do it, its because at the end of the day there’s this simplistic feeling of acceptance and peace too it. I’d never advocate anyone to take a life especially their own nor do I believe I ever would, but that feeling is still there its the fact that the world isn’t fair and life just happens and eventually your both drained and tired but somehow actually fine with it. I’ve been there and I know that i won’t ever come back but I can at least carry the name and let people know its not about the life your letting go of its about accepting the one your coming from. Also the Giraffe is because Giraffes are awesome.
They mean well. Everyone interprets what it means in their own way, and they try to help whichever way they go. It’s a brutal thing to go through, on the inside and to watch someone go through it, especially when the only one who can really do a thing about it, is the one suffrering too much to fight it.
Ah, yes, the good ol’ “I wanna die, but don’t want to actively do anything about it” form of depression. “I wanna go to sleep and not wake up” Is how I think I once put it.
Which is very much not to be confused with “I wanna go to sleep and not wake up for a week” which is a stage of insomnia. Or a sign you’ve eaten too much at thanksgiving.
She wasnt, its just that sometimes those people you care about feel like you aren’t taking your feelings seriously or something. They dont always understand that keeping a distant perspective of your own emotions can sometimes be the one thing that keeps you alive
Because she’s still being emotionally manipulative about it? Ruth has set up a hostage situation where she is both hostage-taker and victim. How is Billie not supposed to feel super guilt-tripped when this was all triggered by booze on her breath and Ruth lists loneliness as a reason for her suicide? It feels as wrong as when Ruth forced a kiss on Billie, because it all smacks of “you haven’t behaved in the way I wanted you to, so I going to kill myself, slowly,” with a little bit of, “why won’t you save me?!?!?” on the side.
Who would Ruth be holding herself hostage from if she hadn’t met Billie? Because I’d guess this is exactly how she already felt before the two ever met. Billie was Ruth’s “last hope.” Which means before Billie, there was no hope, just as she doesn’t have any now.
Ruth still cares about Billie deep down– after all, Ruth is maintaining her facade for Billie’s sake and not her own. She wasn’t going to tell Billie any of this stuff (thereby averting any “hostage situation” to begin with), but she can’t exactly withhold her dismal state of mind right now while being directly confronted. She didn’t want any attention to this in the first place– this confrontation was triggered by only two words slipping out– yet somehow it’s her fault for being a guilt-tripper via telling the plain truth when her privacy is invaded, she is cornered, and the plain truth is being forced out of her?
I have to agree with Gigafreak here. People who use suicide threats as a form of emotional manipulation generally don’t hesitate to use it. It’s a card they’ll play early to get the results they are trying for. She was trying to distance herself from Billie so as not to impact anyone once she decided to end her life; telling Billie about these intentions basically ruins that plan. If Ruth’s plan was to try and bind Billie closer to her, she would’ve said something like this FAR before now.
It’s basically a defense mechanism. Things get a lot easier to deal with once you DECIDE you can eventually have a final escape. It’s really only the initial “oh my god I seriously want to die” stages that are emotional.
yup.
the times I’ve thought about it, it’s been very much an attempt to find some part of my life to feel I have control over, even if only whether to end it.
And then, of course, I think of all the reasons why it’s not really an option – loved ones, etc. – and, if anything, that’s even more depressing. “Great. I don’t even have that choice, that sliver of power.”
That depends on how you define power, as a concept. Most people think of it as only being able to change something, but I think it might also be the ability to resist it as well. Imagine Niagra Falls. Imagine just how much it changes it’s own surroundings. Now consider us, and how much effort, how many years of technology that we needed to even be able to affect it, even a bit.
Everything’s an option. The fact that we can stop it, to choose to say that things won’t change like that, for us or anyone else, is power in itself.
Shit, it just occurred to me that with the slow progression of time in this comic, A) Ruth will probably never get around to going through with this (which is good), but B) by the same token, we may be watching her slip agonizingly into despair (let’s call this process Winkerbeaning) for a good long while before she gets help or it takes effect.
it’s a reference to Bravest Warriors. Go watch it, NOW.
Wankershim is an AI elf that was made real somehow and then expanded to the point where the Universe is now inside him. As he was a fundamentally happy little elf, the Universe actually became much better off for it. But imagine if Willis expanded throughout the universe, his very essence becoming instilled in everything…
The other problem is, by that logic, Ruth can also never truly get better. There simply isn’t the time for her to do so. To recover from these thoughts requires time and therapy, and Ruth doesn’t have the former. And the terrible thing is how accurate this depiction is; meaning that since the treatment of this situation is depicted so truthfully, Mr. Willis is well aware of what is required to treat it and won’t simply write a magical cure/treatment as a way of helping Ruth. So Ruth is going to be stuck with these thoughts for a very, very long time.
Well look at how much time has actually passed in comic vs the number of events that have happened. So many characters have gone from not even knowing each other to having extremely strong relationships over the course of less than two months, including Ruth and Billie. And it’s not just relationships, pretty much every major character has gone through some sort of significant change and many have had several life changing events happen to them. Realistically so much stuff wouldn’t happen in so little time, but because the story is ongoing and the characters cannot graduate for the comic to function properly, time has to be slowed down, and this means that events have to occur faster then they normally would. I guess what I’m trying to say is, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ruth’s recovery ends up being faster then some people think it will be.
Are you a warm body, without a crimal record, with passing grades? That’s about the extent. They are often still undergrads, and often not much older than their charges. Mainly RAs are there to keep the froshes from demolishing the buidling they inhabit.
One of my RAs ended up having to leave school early to go into rehab, because she developed a crippling drug habit while in school.
RAs are not magical, world-experienced beings who can guide college students on the path of right and good while actually doing something about the whiteboard dingdong bandit – they’re college students, just like their peers.
So a few years back, I was curious, and went looking…
And if what I found is at all representative, that show is so fucked up that it even gets into the porn.
I don’t know, Shinji actually did pretty well considering. I mean the only problems he had were that his father didn’t love him, he piloted his mother to fight aliens(which he handled superbly for a non-combatant) and he was afraid of getting involved with people because he didn’t want to get hurt.
I don’t know why you think his father didn’t love him. Did he not gift him everything in the world and then some?
It was Shinji who didn’t love his father, and then wondered why he prefered to spend time with the people who built expensive toys for Shinji.
And seeing as he was actively involved in combat, how can you call him a non-combatant?
>I don’t know why you think his father didn’t love him.
…because he treated him like absolute shit, didn’t care one whit for anything Shinji wanted, killed the only friend he had managed to make in front of him and then berated him for being emotional about it, was so scared of his own son that he turned him into nothing more than a tool in his mind, constantly called him a failure, emotionally manipulated him (and everyone else, really, Gendo is a giant manipulative asshole) repeatedly to make him do what he wanted, and in general systematically demolished any self-esteem Shinji attempted to sprout to make sure he was controllable and pliant?
Gendo was a fuckhole that Shinji didn’t love because he didn’t deserve to be loved, and he was the primary cause of most things that went wrong in the entire series (the rest were the fault of his wife).
Though to be totally fair, Gendo was just as fucked up as Shinji, he was just perpetuating the cycle (which is still worthy of blame, just a bit more understandable).
Not really. Almost everyone disliked him. Misato hated his guts. Ritsuko was in an extremely hurtful attraction/hate relationship with him. Kaji thought Gendo was a jerk. Even his “partner in crime”, Kozo Fuyutsuki, was a bit put off by him, he admits. But NERV needed him, and SEELE wanted him there because they thought he was working for them (spoilers, Gendo is only working for Gendo). So they put up and shut up. Hell, at the end, even REI tells Gendo to fuck off and die, and Rei was literally bred by him to be subservient, since she was his tool to bring about Third Impact.
Gendo Ikari is nearly the definition of a toxic person. Most people don’t want anything to do with him, and the people who care about him or what he thinks are only diminished and hurt by it (the Akagi mom and daughter, Shinji). He is every bit as damaged as Shinji, but while Shinji turns it all inwards in a self-destructive manner, Gendo destroys everyone else that gets close.
I have had this conversation as well. Depressed people don’t see suicide as sad or terrible. It’s very hard to have a conversation with someone who thinks they want to end their life about it.
It doesn’t help when you have depression yourself (which is part of the whole problem with Billie and Ruth’s situation, trying to prop each other up when they’re having trouble standing themselves).
My best friend and I are kinda like this. I actually described us as an “arch” a couple weeks ago. Neither of us can stand well on our own, but we can lean against each other. We’re both struggling, but with different things, so we each brace the other against whatever comes our way.
I’ve been on Ruth’s end too. It’s really hard to process someone freaking out when you think suicide, or a similar death, is inevitable in the near future and are okay with it.
I don’t even remember who I explained things to the first time that finally got me to a psychiatrist, much less what I said. All I know is my family then proceeded to go “D=!” over it because my mental state at the time was “Well, people would be too sad if I killed myself, but it’d really be nice if I’d never existed in the first place” and people who care about you don’t really take well to you not caring about yourself.
And I will rebuild it from the ashes, become a captain of industry for my efforts, make billions of dollars, buy the Transformers franchise, and never release a good Dinobot figure ever again.
The characters will only die in a post-mortem fireball upon Willis’s own death, because once he can no longer physically update, THEN he can take them all down to Hell with him!!!
At the rate he’s going now, assuming he gets run over by a bus or a meteor falls on his house or something it will be another 4 months to a year after he passes that the last page goes up… Now if he gets some horrible wasting disease that keeps him from drawing for several months before he finally goes, well the update schedule might get a little spotty before everything goes dark.
There’ll be a “death update” where, like with the Gmail option [I think it’s Gmail], if you don’t log in for some specific interval and don’t respond to a reminder notification, it will send a notice to all your contacts that you have most likely died.
For Willis, the criteria would have to be “more than a day w/o update or other arrangement”–which would still be months after the fact.
It all returns to nothing, it all comes tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down
It all returns to nothing, I just keep letting me down, letting me down, letting me down
In my heart of hearts
I know that I called never love again
I’ve lost everything
everything
everything that matters to me, matters in this world
You know what they say.
Some things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad.
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you’re chewing on life’s gristle,
Don’t grumble, give a whistle!
And this’ll help things turn out for the best
And
Considering the last verse, might not be the best song for the circumstances.
(Life’s a piece of shit when you look at it, life’s a laugh and death’s a joke it’s true…)
I’m recalling the Bi-Awareness day with Billie saying “All eyes on me!” That applied recently to Danny being bi but also I see a second meaning here. Everyone’s so focused on Billie’s depression we didn’t realize that Ruth’s was even worse.
it was kinda hard to see (for me) before, seeing as I don’t drink, but her demeanor matches mine from when I was suicidal so closely it ain’t even funny. In fact, it’s the opposite of funny.
That would be one of the differences between being depressed and clinical depression. It seems many here (not you specifically) don’t know the difference. This is depressing. One day I shal write an article on this.
Part of the reason we “didn’t realize”, and that we “focused” on Billie is that we simply see more of Billie, Billie’s problems, and Billie’s reactions. In very general terms, Ruth mostly appears when Billie’s around, and most of the insight we have into Ruth’s problems come from Billie being there to observe.
Billie’s very much a “viewpoint character”, while Ruth is not one. It’s only natural to focus on what we-the-readers can actually see, and pointless for us to attempt to focus on problems we aren’t actually aware of. That Ruth was suffering from this level of depression is something that was revealed at today. The one who’s “at fault” for focusing too much on Billie is David Willis.
Hey remember when this chapter was just about some random person drawing wieners everywhere, and the closest thing we got to serious drama was Carla being upset because she thought she was being targeted but then she found out everyone got dicks, so she thought it was funny?
Ruth makes everything more unpleasant, it’s pretty much built into this version of her character, she’s a depressed, lonely, alcoholic with anger issues who can’t properly express her feelings when she really needs to so instead lashes out at people and deliberately tries to hurt them.
Except for Parent Week, where she was a beautiful breath of fresh air.
For a moment there, I thought this sentence was “agonized WHALE of feelings”, and I wassuffering people had discovered a new spirit mascot for these situations.
My guess is, it’ll be dropped when someone googles how to remove permanent marker from whiteboards and/or they accept the penis-boards as they are, and the whole thing will be a sort of running joke in the comic and comments section.
Only the hottest of lesbian fucks will cure her despair. Here’s your chance to be a hero, Billie! Take one for the team. You know you want to. Search your feelings… you know it to be true.
Like, I know these are fictional characters and you’re just trying to be funny, but it feels way gross. This strip hits way top close to home (two queer girls trying to navigate their depression and feelings for each other, the casual hints at suicide the one girl drops to the horror of the other). If hot lesbian (which I guess you’re shorthanding for “women attracted to women”, since Billie and Ruth are both bisexual) fucking solved depression I know at two lives that would be a whole lot simpler.
Guys, Cholma’s comment is what Billie/Ruth shippers sound like all the time. the ladies are not well, it’s been made clear for a long time now. But all that ever gets posted is ‘they need to have sex’ ‘kiss her now!’ etc..
Technically Amber/anybody shippers have the same problem (part of what makes the idea of Ethan/Danny so popular is that it’s be a healthier step for everyone involved in that extended scenario)
Agreed. My ships for Amber, Ruth and Billie are all /emotional wellness and healthy self image. Shortpacked! Leslie/Robin is much simpler to be excited about than DoA Billie/Ruth because Billie and Ruth have still got so much to work on before they even think about anything resembling a romantic/sexual relationship. Of course, people who aren’t in a good place psychologically have lovers in real life, so it wouldn’t be unrealistic, just not ideal.
Even more than that people who aren’t in a good place mentally need lovers. Seriously, do you know how many people have killed themselves because they couldn’t get any and felt completely alone? In cases like those abstinence kills! Sex is for some the only time they feel connected to another human being, and for some the only time they feel anything except depressed. Times like this I’m really glad these are just characters in a comic…
Sorry Dude(tte), I’m just speaking from long personal experience. Seriously fucked childhood with mild autism and a bit of ADHD (1960s era DOD dependant with moves every few months made developing relationshipsrather difficult), followed by surviving a murder attempt for existing outside the accepted norms as an adult (who knew that some people would go so batshit over a guy riding a bicycle at night?) that led to PTSD (another major depression trigger).
Well, in those cases was it really the lack of sex, or the lack of someone to emotionally connect with that was the problem? Sex in and of itself doesn’t imply any emotional bond. I think our society places too much emphasis on sex as the ultimate expression of love and devalues other kinds of love as less important and meaningful. And “abstinence kills” makes me think of Elliot Rogers… people deserve help with emotional pain (from qualified professionals and willing members of the social circle) but no one owes anyone else their body.
OK that last sentence hurt a little. I wasn’t implying that anyone “owed” anything, I was stating a fact, that depressed people who are denied the connection of a sexual relationship sometimes die as a result. We really need sex worker stamps for stuff like that. And come to think of it I think there are some sex workers who are doing it as much for the connection as for the cash.
Man, Ruth’s story is seemingly such a yawning chasm of tragedy that it almost loops back around to being funny. She’s completely accepted this… eh, whaddayagonnado… and now she regards Billie’s anguish with amused detachment. “Aw, look at that! Caring! I remember caring about whether I lived or died like that, once. That’s so CUTE!”
Ruth seems like she’s pretty much given up at this point and she’s just been doing her best to hide that fact. But Billie pushed and pushed and now she has to confront that reality. The hovertext is super relevant here, Ruth is really not healthy right now.
You know, the sad thing is that a lot of people think others suicide to “get back” at people, or to get attention, not because they’ve completely given up on themselves and the world. It’s not easy to process “staring into the chasm” so to speak, when you never have yourself. Also, I can totally relate to Ruth hiding it from people. It sucks to be a drain on others when you’ve already given up on yourself.
It’s a very realistic depiction of depression. When you can’t go through a normal day without your head barraging you with hateful thoughts, suicide starts to seem like the only way to make the suffering stop. “Sadly”, there are all these people around you who’d be sad if you were to die, and you don’t want to be a horrible person and make them sad. But if they were to stop caring about you, then you’d have less reason to feel guilty about killing yourself.
You don’t even need to be actively suicidal to think like this; just having suicidal thoughts make you recognize that if you don’t have any friends, you can’t be a horrible person and hurt anyone.
and I’m done!
wow, that was a somewhat unpleasant trip through comment section memory lane
…and I really should’ve done it after I woke up instead of pulling an all-nighter
(btw, I’ve desensitized myself to danny being bi, which is pretty dang depressing because I have nothing to uplift my spirits anymore ; – ; )
If this is seriously how you feel, you should go talk to someone. If you are in the U.S., you can call 1-800-273-8255. (I’d guess you could call them anyways, but I’m not sure)
Yes, you can call them anyway. Suicide prevention is a continuum — most folks think of it as talking someone out of killing themselves on the phone, but there are a bunch of other interventions which also apply.
Also, if you’re in Billie’s shoes and someone you care for has expressed the feelings Ruth has, then you can refer them to the help line, but it’s also a good idea to call the help line yourself. Hearing somebody say that they just want “to slip away” is terrifying, and the lifeline folks are trained in helping caregivers, too.
I used to volunteer on a suicide hotline. There’s no wrong time or wrong person to call, you don’t even have to be in a crisis this second, just go for it. 1-800-SUICIDE. <3
Then see a doctor. Now — if you are feeling this way, then you are suffering from a life-threatening illness called ‘suicidal depression.’ If you have the means at hand, then don’t wait, call 911 or go to the emergency room.
“So you’re bleeding a little internally, and you’ve got a collapsed lung. Lots of people have it tough. You just need to work on having a better attitude.”
If you are not only thinking of suicide, but have assembled the means and have them to hand, then you are in the middle of a life threatening emergency. You need help *now* — you are an immediate threat to yourself.
The ER handles a lot of psychiatric emergencies. It may not be a fun experience, but as far as I understand it is generally effective (in terms of getting help, getting checked in somewhere, etc.) to go to the ER if you’re feeling suicidal.
In my experience, not so much. It wasn’t me who went in, but an ex. She got kept in the hospital for a couple weeks, was given some medication that didn’t do anything, and was just let go. They didn’t do anything about finding her long-term care.
Basically, they just babysit you for a while, and then off you go.
This, absolutely. It depends a lot on your insurance as well- if you have very good insurance, you may get sent to a nice facility, but generally they cubbyhole you and forget about you until they’re legally protected, then eject you while you’re still drugged into a daze and let you solve your own damn problems.
Nah. When I reached the top of my first mania, my sister took me to the ER and I was put on a 5150. ERs are for mental breakdowns as much as the other stuff.
Good for you for protecting yourself from yourself; that’s important. Make the call first thing in the morning; you’ll be surprised how quickly you’ll get in to see someone.
See now, Billie, with an admission like this you’re fully within your rights to call the police for a welfare check and have Ruth committed to a psych ward for 72 hours so she can be diagnosed with the obvious clinical depression she has and start treatment.
“YOU’RE A CHEERLEADER. TAKE CHARGE.” the random commenter shouts into the void
At least Ruth has someone she feel she can actually say this too. Imagine she was even further down the hole and brushed her off to prevent Billie from, as I sure Ruth would view it, relapsing into caring more about her.
I think a person really only needs one solid, compelling reason to live, because that gives them time. You use the time to build a life for yourself in which there are more reasons. With Billie and Howie, Ruth has at least two reasons. A fine start.
However, since Ruth’s suicide plan is probably to drink herself to death, compulsively buying the means to do so is Not Good. I want her to say why she always throws it away.
The problem comes in when you’re so depressed that you think seeking help won’t do any good and/or if you don’t have the motivation to do what it takes to get helps. That’s why it’s so important for family, friends and caregivers to seek help for them if need be.
Also sucks when you don’t seek help not because for those reasons but because you don’t want to bother anyone else.
Hell I actually really hate the whole emo bashing meme, I have no idea how much people still do this, because I’m sure its stopped some legitimately depressed people from looking for help because they don’t want to appear like they are hunting for attention.
My parents legitimately believe that people who are depressed and/or suicidal are seeking attention.
And they also think an emotional addiction to electronics is something to be controlled, not cured, but really that’s just me venting and doesn’t have to do with this discussion.
Yeah, that is one of the views on depression I personally DESPISE from parents – it makes their kids unable to share a legitimate problem – you almost always need support for depression from someone, like a parent or a friend or a sibling.
That’s one of the views that prevents them seeking help – and is also one of the views that leads to depressing predictions like that the third most common cause of death by 2020 is meant to be depression.
You know, that’s always bugged me, the idea that somebody is “just” seeking attention. When somebody feels terrible, and asks for some attention, maybe we should give them some freaking attention.
It’s my biggest pet peeve that people go “Oh, they’re just seeking attention” without looking into the WHY. We’re social creatures, of COURSE we seek attention.
I’m sorry. That sucks.
My in-laws are the same way. If I am overheard by my FIL even mentioning my anxiety disorders to someone else I’ll get an instant earful about how depression and anxiety don’t exist. They’re just things hippies made up as an excuse to get attention and be lazy and the whole world bought in to it. *serious eye roll*
If I try to defend myself or argue that they are just as real as the diabetes and heart disease he struggles with I just get shouted down until I give up, so when he starts I just get up and leave the room.
I’ll never convince him that those disorders are very, very real nor that I struggle with my anxiety issues every single day, so to save my sanity I just don’t even engage with him over it.
It can really hurt, though, when someone basically calls you a liar that just likes to stir up drama or portray yourself as a victim. Especially when that person is family. When they’re a person that’s supposed to support you not tear you down.
Yes – that is why it is important to be supportive of others when they think they are depressed or you think they are depressed. Depression is a serious issue – but in almost all cases, if the person gets the right support, and the right treatment, they can overcome it – it takes a long time, usually 6 months to several years.
But sadly, a lot of people still don’t get treatment that could honestly save them from themselves. Not always because they never tried, but because the current views on depression are pretty awful still. Some people still don’t believe it exists. Some parents deny their child could have it. Friends don’t always know how to react to it. A lot of people don’t know how to properly reach out for it either.
“Some people still don’t believe it exists. Some parents deny their child could have it.”
My mother and I have had some serious problems all of my life – I am the child she didn’t understand and couldn’t relate to – but when I told her at 15 that I had tried to kill myself the night before, she was on the phone in less than a minute and we were in the car on our way to a hospital in 10. (Helps that she was a nurse with a lot of favors available to call in)
I try to take that page out of her book while I’m raising my kids. Listening to them and taking their problems seriously, letting them know they can tell me anything and above all making sure what they need to be healthy and hopefully happy. It’s the most important thing I ever learned from her.
What I think is sad is the number of people that don’t get treatment or don’t get adequate treatment either because they can’t afford it or it’s not available to them.
When you have depression (or anxiety or a number of other mental illnesses and disorders) it can be hard enough to reach out for help. If you do find the ability to reach out only to discover that you can’t find a therapist in your area that’s taking new patients, or your insurance doesn’t cover therapy or covers so little of it that it’s cost prohibitive, or any of those other roadblocks, it can be absolutely crushing. It can destroy any remaining desire you had at seeking help and destroy any hope you had left that you might get better.
Don’t mean to get anyone else more down but I feel like saying that this is how I am. Just replace Billie with family and a bottle with my arteries. Yes I’ve seen a doctor.
I hear ya.
If your doctor is helpful, then great, keep that up. Also you are emotionally badass for getting some help.
If your doctor wasn’t that helpful then please remember that each therapist is very different. Don’t give up, find a better therapist for you.
Thinking of you <3
Wow… damn… I’ve… been that low. I had a bright future in front of me, and then I fucked it all up. Luckily I had people strong enough to pull me back.
And if they hadn’t, I wouldn’t have become a parent, or probably been able to come home when my mother passed away, or any of countless other moments worth cherishing.
Ruth, the thing is, when everything’s wearing you down, you need things to build you up. Start with a friend.
And Billie’s never seemed so helpless in her life. Former friends telling her off, lovers wishing to disappear – nothing she’s had to handle before, and right now nothing she CAN handle….
You know what? I think Billie is one of those people who deal with the worst of themselves by kicking ass for other people.
Billie is very definitely not healthy in and of herself but she can be good in a crisis..and this is pretty much a crisis.
I agree. I keep seeing Billie’s pain and helplessness and then total emotional strength for others. It makes me wonder if she’ll become a therapist or similar emotional warrior in ten or twenty years. This is one way social work students get made.
True. Way less judging, way more listening. But life is doing a pretty solid job of knocking her off her high horse, so I figure she can learn in time.
She is already doing a pretty good job of that recently – she actually called Walky and Joyce friends, had invited them to sit with her, told off Alice for trying to bail just because they were going to join – Billie, though it may not seem like it due to the crying and stuff, is currently on a roll with developing into a better person.
It does, but Ruth is hiding her depression at this stage. The best possible outcome is if Billie can get her to seek help. (It’s tricky because depression itself often prevents people from reaching out, like they might think it’s pointless because they can’t access hope, or they might be full of self-blame, etc.)
And people can be reluctant to go because of bad experiences with mental health care in the past (victim blaming doctors, abusive psych wards, inexperienced therapists). And it’s especially hard to get decent service if you’re a US citizen who’s uninsured or on Medicaid.
Or they can try to reveal it with ‘hints’. Or wait for friends to excessively ask if they are okay. Or hide it but expect people to notice anyway.
Depressed people do some…unorthodox things to try to get help because they don’t always know a better way to reach out unfortunately, which leaves some of them untreated sadly.
Dropping hints — particularly offhand suicide threats — is exactly what Ruth did here, by the way. And Billie recognized the severity of those threats, and acted on that knowledge. (Yay, Billie!)
Remember: Unless you know otherwise, every suicide threat is serious. If you hear what Billie heard, follow up with the speaker.
I completely agree with you about this strip; this is a full on acknowledgement that Ruth is thinking about suicide and has an active plan to kill herself. That’s completely different from the earlier one, which was a hidden suicide threat. Billie recognized it and responded. (Yay, Billie.)
Alright! I knew when I got hit like a ton of bricks with the onset of my chronic depression in freshman year, it took me a few months to get help. I just hope Ruth can get to that point. She’s trying to shoulder all her stress by herself and that’s not something she can carry.
Many people who are depressed don’t realize they need help, or don’t think they’re worth getting helped. And there are people like myself, who know that we need help, but get anxious every time we try seeking it. There have been several times I’ve tried to call a therapist only to start panicking before I finished dialing the number, and ended up just putting the phone down.
It’s a bad cycle. I know I need help. I want to get help. I try getting help but panic and don’t go through with it, which makes me feel even worse. I know it makes no sense, but logic doesn’t really come into play here.
I hear you, and that’s not uncommon.
Is there somebody who can hang out nearby when you call? Pets are good for this too.
(Also in case the mystery is part of the panic, you won’t be talking to the doctor on that first call. Probably a nice secretary will answer, you’ll say you’re a new patient and would like to schedule an appointment, then you’ll put it on your calendar. Then you’ll say thanks and bye.)
You could also get someone you trust to call for you.
My husband has called on my behalf several times. Sometimes I’ve asked him to and a couple times he made appointments for me because I needed them but kept insisting I was fine.
Each time he’s made the call for me there hasn’t been a problem. They didn’t ask why he was calling and not me. They didn’t ask to speak with me directly. Simply the usual about what date/time is best and what insurance provider did we have, and ‘okay see you then.’
If you really feel like you can’t do it, have a partner, a family member, a close friend or whoever do it for you. And if you feel like you need the added support, ask that person if he/she will go with you. He/she doesn’t have to go in with you if you are uncomfortable with that. If they’re willing, they can sit in the waiting room or in the car. But I find having someone you trust go with you can help ease the anxiety immensely. Plus, having it established that they’re coming too helps to keep you from making excuses not to go. Especially if that loved one is willing and able to tell you that the only way you’re not going to the appointment is if he/she genuinely needs to take you to the ER.
OK I have never been this depressed, but damnit I know what she’s talking about. The PTSD didn’t set in until the statute of limitations on prosecuting the guy that tried to kill me passed without any word from LEO on finding him. I didn’t know at the time he had already killed himself in a car wreck, or it wouldn’t have been so bad because Karma took care of what the law failed to correct. Well one of the side effects of PTSD can be crippling depression, as in “Why should I even bother to get out of bed today?” depression. Like I said, I wasn’t suicidal, but just because I didn’t want to kill myself didn’t mean I didn’t want to die. I am (mostly) better now, but things get a little strange for me on the anniversary of my death. Those things kinda change a person. And to use Python quotes “I got better”, and “I’m not dead (yet)”.
I was two minutes without pulse or respiration when I “rebooted” myself. Everybody figured getting hit by a truck going that fast I had to be dead. Survival for people not inside a motor vehicle at the speed I was hit is somewhere between 3 and 5 people per million wrecks, and I was riding a bicycle home from work.
I hope you don’t mind, but I actually marked it on my calendar, just ’cause it seems like such a momentous occasion. Expect a comment on the Sunday comic.
confidentially i’m not in this webcomics thing to tell stories, i’m actually just assembling an army of unkillable badasses one by one, who i will eventually march across the face of the earth and install a new world order
You’d be surprised. Acute depression is usually treatable medically. Chronic depression usually requires a combination of medication and counseling, but can usually be managed. (Not cured, managed; chronic depression is like diabetes.) Bipolar affective disorder (manic-depressive disease) also responds to medication and therapy, and can usually be managed.
This comic & comments are really hard to read. A lot of people being supportive, and a lot of people are being brutal.
Earlier this year, I went on vacation for a week. I had a great time, loved seeing my friends, but I was so tired all the time! Near the end, I went to a mental health meet-up (I’ve had chronic depression most of my life), and cried for the ENTIRE HOUR. I tried to do so quietly, because I didn’t want to interrupt anyone, but it was almost impossible. I had no idea how badly I was doing until I listened to all these other people in the same kind of pain. Stupid sneaky depression, skipped the usual warning signs and went straight to wearing me down! Still struggling to get it back under control.
I hadn’t gotten to Ruth’s stage at that time, but I’ve been there before. It’s not fun, and it’s hard to talk about because you know everyone around you will be sad you feel that way, or mad at you for feeling that way. Just another layer of exhaustion.
It’s Ruth’s disbelieving smile in the last panel that really does it. ‘I knew you would care, because you care for me, but why the fuck do you care for me when even I don’t care for me, you idiot? And why do I kinda like having you care, even though you shouldn’t and even though I’ll just end up hurting you more, and it will hurt that much more because you care?’
Yup. This is exactly how it feels. You don’t care that you’re suicidal. It’s just one more thing you no longer care about. You think, I could kill myself, but there’s X, Y, and Z to do / care about. And then one day, without you really noticing, there’s only Y and Z to do / care about. I guess the trick is finding an anchor strong enough to resist the erosion until you can crawl back out of the darkness.
Having just looked my own depression in the face and begun to get treatment for it, my heart goes out the both Billie and especially Ruthless. I know that feel far too well. Thanks for breaking my heart with a character I started off hating, Willis.
Ok, I don’t know how to phrase this in a way that doesn’t sound… disrespectful. I guess I’ll try my best and you can rag on me if you feel I’m being insensitive (Just, try to rag on me with constructive criticism, I guess).
So, Robin Williams committed suicide recently, as I’m sure most if not all of you know, and a lot of comments about how “the happiest people are usually the saddest” have been floating around. It’s been conflicting for me because I do stand-up comedy in Mexico and a lot of my colleagues here have shared so many articles on how comedians suffer so much. None of these people are careful about making jokes about people with mental illnesses but they share these articles as if to say: “See, I am a tortured soul!”
But I’ve had friends like Ruth that are just so tired and at some point trust you enough to confide on you how tired they are and on the one hand I want to tell them “but you have to STAY because I’D MISS YOU” and on the other hand I realize how incredibly selfish that is. But I can’t know their tiredness, I can only stand aside a be witness to it and hope that they find a reason to carry on. And it angers me SO MUCH that these comedians who will joke about people who have suffered abuse suddenly have the gall to use the death of someone to act as if they’re victims. Even if they make no move to feel empathy (let’s not even mention creating empathy) for other people.
This, of course, does not include ALL comedians, but it’s a considerable amount and I just feel like they’re trying to act as if suicidal thoughts are a thing of the trade when, really, they’re a larger part of the human experience than any of us, I think, would feel comfortable admitting.
I don’t want to censor what these comedians say or share, but I can’t quite find words to express why what they say bothers me (and, also, how do I know they haven’t struggled with suicidal thoughts?) so I just fall back on a quote I found sometime ago:
“Don’t focus too much on the negative in someone else’s work. Don’t make it your crusade. Spend that effort making your own work better. Make your work the counterargument to the work you don’t like.” ~ Ronald Wimberly
I’ve recently read some interesting articles on Cracked about how some comedians became comedians as a method of creating a fake persona that people would interact with so that the real persona could stay distanced and, well, fester. It seemed plausible enough that I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that a disproportionate number of comedians are much more depressed and unhappy than they look…especially since they don’t look at all unhappy.
And I’m pretty sure the fact that comedians joke about mental illness is no reason to think they don’t have them. Aside from the “write what you know” thing, I get the strong impression that many comedians consider ANYTHING fair game and do all their censoring based on anticipated audience reaction rather than any personal concern about a subject.
@the first part of your third paragraph: You have to show them that you ARE a reason for them to stay alive, and try to be there for them, and set yourself up as someone to confide in. You CANNOT take a passive approach when someone is suicidal.
This can be a literal lifesaver, I think. In my experience, and based on what others have said, that first step from depression to being suicidal is realizing that you might want to die. I think it’s there that most people see the most basic threads keeping them alive, and for a lot of people, one of the big ones is “who I would leave behind/who would be affected/upset/etc. by my suicide.”
I don’t think you are being particularly insensitive – but comedy is a rather touchy subject. With a good set up, a lot of jokes about things you would normally go ‘DEAR GOD NO’ at can seem hilarious because you know they are jokes, and those aren’t things they believe are right/true.
I can see your point that some things aren’t really the best things to joke about – but I also think it should be up to the comedian themselves as to what is ‘too far’ for them, because comedy itself isn’t meant to be taken seriously in the first place.
It is also quite common for people with depression to pretend to be happy or like normal, so I do believe them when they say they are often more depressed than they look – I can see why you’d be angry about them going ‘we’re depressed!’ when they joke about suicide and depression though. It seems hypocritical, but it could also be part of a coping mechanism they’ve developed by being comedians, joking about it can make it seem less serious, ya know?
I think it makes a big difference whether the punchline is making fun of abused people or a horrible situation or abusers. Sometimes we joke about terrible things as a way of criticizing them without depressing ourselves more.
Yeah, that’s the thing. I feel they’re mocking depressed people (as opposed to creating empathy by talking about their own depression and trying to find humor in it).
And another close to home feeling. Started around 15 and popped up a bunch of times afterwards for a few years and then slowly went away. The reason was a guilt and desire to punish myself, then I thought it would be a more fitting punishment to keep living with the guilt. 6 months after turning 24, finally decided to talk to parents about looking for a therapist. Currently working on a lot of those issues. What got my attention about trying to see a therapist was due to a combination of things that included reading Questionable Content(came across Faye’s entire backstory) and a Disney movie that has become insanely popular called Frozen. The other things are more along the lines of less media related events. So….confusing and weird tangent/rant/ramble,at least disorganized, but yeah. Hopefully this will move into a lighter direction, but currently a reminder to try and not to regress. Thank Damn You Willis and Jeph!
Way too tired to think of a stinger other than”I need to think of funny things to say to make my crazy emotional stuff end on a light note.”
You know, I would say that the immaturity on display here by Ruth–loudly declaring that she has self-destructive tendencies that she’s keeping in check supposedly for Billie’s sake but really so that she can revel in her Martyr complex–is ugly and unpleasant to look at and just makes her that much less likable as a character…
…but at least she’s TALKING. She hasn’t learned yet that not engaging with others is the best way to make sure that you won’t have to engage with others in the future. She hasn’t learned yet that the best way to revel in your own depression is to demure from social engagement with off-hand remarks like “I’m not feeling that great, I’ll turn in early” that give you an excuse to retreat from those who would otherwise be willing to help you without explaining to them why it’s necessary to spend the rest of the night thinking of an efficient and automated method for disposing of your own body after you die from a self-inflicted wound or poison.
Here, immaturity may yet be the salvation of these two women… at least, for now.
How is what Ruth’s doing “immature”? Immature is slamming someone against the wall and kissing them after. This is honest-to-god verbal communication of feelings, which is about as mature as you can get.
I’d say it has an off-flavor of emotional manipulation where Ruth has threatened suicide because Billie didn’t behave how she wanted her to (booze) and didn’t “save” her (loneliness).
Talking is a good thing, but how long has it been since they sort of broke up? A day? Two? I’d be more inclined to call Ruth mature if she didn’t have a history of being an abusive, manipulative jerk.
Under most circumstances, yes. But Ruth is a bit of a controlling bully. In a way, she’s forced Billie to come to her by first shutting her out, and then dropping “yet.” She’s forced this whole situation by not giving Billie any help whatsoever (which was all Billie was asking for when Ruth kissed her).
Also, the day(ish) after cutting a romantic interest out of your life is not exactly the best time to come out with, “I’m so depressed on my own, I’m going to kill myself.” That’s all kinds of wrong. That just screams manipulation.
Ruth forced Billie to ignore her clearly stated “forget me”–in a conversation which only happened because a friend of Billie’s asked for Ruth’s help as the RA–break into her room, and demand answers three times while Ruth scrambled to deflect and told Billie to leave? Wow, Ruth’s mind-powers are impressive.
Billie demanded an answer, and she clearly wasn’t leaving without one. Ruth’s options are either to tell Billie the truth, or lie. I am not okay with saying she’s a jerk because she didn’t lie about feeling suicidal.
Ruth isn’t being manipulative here. I can see where she would be, and has been, but this doesn’t reek of manipulation. Or, if Ruth is trying to be manipulative, it’s to Billie’s benefit–she wants to harden Billie toward her to make it easier on Billie.
Ruth and Billie have reached a point where Billie sees through Ruth’s tough RA persona to the broken person underneath. Ruth doesn’t have any reason to hide her vulnerability anymore, and she isn’t. That doesn’t mean she’s an emotionally healthy person–neither of them is an emotionally healthy person. But she’s not trying to manipulate Billie with all of this.
I wouldn’t call Ruth’s mental state a martyr complex. For one, it doesn’t seem to be characterized by a desire to be a martyr (or a victim). Rather, it’s probably the normal facet of depression where the sufferer feels conflicted between the desire to not cause emotional harm to anyone, and the desire to just be gone. They recognize that if they were to kill themselves, a lot of people would be sad. Ruth, pragmatically, probably just wants less people to care about her so she doesn’t have to feel guilty about her suicidal thoughts.
Yes.
When you’re in that hole, you still care about other people. Just not yourself.
You know everyone (including you, ’cause then you wouldn’t have to feel what you’re feeling) would be better off, but you also know they wouldn’t feel that way, so…
(yes, the above thought process is exactly as fucked-up as it sounds.)
Well I kinda just want them to couple up. and neither of them to die.
They’d be a lot less destructive if properly together and both properly open about how fucked up they are. They’re both getting really good at catching the other’s bullshit
In addition to an earlier comment from me: definitely been having a hard time keeping myself from feeling like Ruth does right now after reading almost any kind of news from the past few weeks. Therefore, I ask everyone to either find a friend feeling down and hug them, or sing a song that makes you happy. What time is it?Sleeping time. zzzzzz
I have mixed feelings about shipping them. Two messed up people like that getting together can grow into some serious codependency issues. At the same time, if they are aware of their problems and work on them separately and together, they could have a very good relationship.
Not only did Danny realize he was bisexual until circumstances similar to those in which I realized I am bisexual, but this is also the EXACT conversation I’ve had recently with my boyfriend (from Ruth’s perspective). Dammit, Willis, do you read my LiveJournal?!
(I do not have a LiveJournal. The rest of it is true.)
Willis’s superpower is to predict other people’s lives and weave them into his own through comics to create a complex world where everybody is shipped with everybody.
cj might have meant, some people would rather deal with things through discussion, or other means, rather than deal with a hug from another person.
In a lot of cases, the hug is more for the giver’s sake, than for the recipient’s.
If it does well for the recipient, that’s fantastic, but..
Well, generally speaking, unless you know the person well enough to know they want it and are just denying it for themselves, it’s better to ask and go with what they respond they want.
Else they may get upset, and you may lose all chance at communication.
Not that that’s relevant here, really; the only people at risk of hugging are Ruth and Billie, and I’m pretty sure both of them’d be at least somewhat okay with it.
I struggle with depression. Thankfully I did see a therapist and take medication for it which has helped a lot. That said, it doesn’t completely go away. This really hits home. With all sincerity, thank you Willis.
I hope, at some point, Billie gets a moment of clarity and realizes Ruth could have just talked to her about the booze on her breath (or done anything at all) instead of cutting herself off completely, only to come back to threaten suicide. I don’t care if Ruth’s depressed; Billie could/should call her out on that sh**.
Ruth didn’t threaten suicide. When prompted, she told Billie that she wasn’t yet ready to “go drown [herself] in booze”, in the sense of “drinking heavily”. Billie parsed that as potentially meaning something more (presumably suicide), and Ruth came back to talk to Billie because Walky begged her to.
Ruth certain didn’t seek out Billie to purposefully threaten her with suicide.
Willis, thank you for this. Thank you for realistically depicting what it’s like to feel depression. I often have to say the same things to myself: “I just have to hang on for a little longer. I’ll wait until after my friend’s birthday. I’ll hang on until this movie comes out.” For me it’s a way of keeping myself alive, but I know how fatalistic it sounds. I also want to slip away someday, just stop existing, but I would never say this to my family or friends. I’m glad Ruth can open up to Billie, since Billie seems to be having the same sort of issues. Maybe not full-blown depression, but she’s questioning her worth as a person and that never leads to fun times. One of the few reasons I’ve kept suicide at bay was because I had support from my friends going through similar things. When you get in that messed up headspace the only people that get through to you are people who’ve been there themselves and know what to say.
Now that I’ve got all that out of the way, I really want to see these two hug. I don’t care if they hook up, I just want them to comfort one another. They both deserve a little comfort.
Depression, seriously is like the most freaky monster of self loathing and worthlessness. The scariest part is, even when you get to a high point and actually feel good for once it sneaks itself back in when your not looking. And your brain is working against you waiting for the opportunity where there is nothing else to distract you to go “Hey… Psssst… over here… remember that thing you’ve been trying to forget… lets think about IT for a while…” Then we go full circle back into the depressive cycle.
The messed up part of it is, when you finally break that little circle, and your in the clear it leaves a scar, a deep one, that keeps a smidgen of doubt and fear inside you… as if your just uncomfortable with being happy, and just waiting for some seriously new depression to set it. And that in and of itself can become a new depressive cycle…
Agreed, to everything in the above comments. I’m only just getting back from out of my latest spiral and it is still so hard not to hate myself sometimes, and it is the worst feeling in the world to have your brain working against you. And the worst part is because your brain’s the part not working right, you end up feeling like crap and then it convinces you you deserve it. And even if you realize you weren’t always this hopeless and miserable, getting yourself out of the hole your brain’s dug you is just so difficult it doesn’t seem like you’ll ever get back to it.
Yeah, definitely this. I wasn’t always this hopeless and miserable, but I can’t imagine going back to how I were before I got to this point. Because It feels like that me is dead. Gone. I am damaged, and I can’t imagine how I could be repaired.
And the worst part is the self loathing, hurting myself. And telling me I’m not worth saving, that I deserve it.
I’m not back from that get, because despite me gradually learning to ask for help for the last two years, I have gotten none for the last year, despite the feeling that I’ve looked into every option, every version of help I have the right to ask for. I’m glad you’re better off than you have been, Regalli. I hope you don’t get worse again.
This hits frighteningly close to home. And some of the comments…god. Keep it bottled up, you’re immature. Talk about it, you’re immature. There is a Perfect Way to Be Depressed and Suicidal or else nope, I guess.
I’m not sure if you are refering to comments here instead of past personal experence, but if it’s the comments here then part of the problem is that people are reading two differing comics. In one Ruth is being a manipulate jerk and in the other she is being brutally honest.
I can see that, but … I don’t know. I don’t really have good enough words at the moment. I don’t think Ruth is being a manipulative jerk. She can be a manipulative jerk, but this isn’t it.
And so the other shoe finally drops. I was wondering why I was so sympathetic to Ruth. Turns out it’s the obvious – she’s dealing with the same shit I’m dealing with. Luckily I’m couple small steps ahead of her but I was in the same grim place not long ago.
It’s strange, though I have at times wanted to die, the thought of, for example, slitting my wrists was and is really offputting. Maybe it’s because I (think I) can imagine the physical pain so well.
She makes it sound as if being RA is a life sentence. University is only four years. (Okay, more if you change your major a bunch of times or something, but still.)
For depressed people, the next few years is often the furthers they are capable of imagining in any real sense. For Ruth, four years of college might as well be forever.
One of the worst prognostic signs for depression is the inability to picture a future, or at least, a bearable future. If next week is inconceivable to you, 3 or 4 years is a freaking lifetime.
That’s where I am. I can’t imagine not being depressed. I can’t imagine being… whole. Happy. I feel broken, and I don’t see how I could possibly be repaired.
Also, to the alt text… I saw a friggin’ doctor. a year ago. But they quit. And now I’m in some kinda therapy limbo where no one has helped me for over a year, despite me asking multiple doctors and places that whoose job it is to help me.
I have to remind myself that most people don’t feel like that most of the time. I’ve felt like that most days for almost 18 years (which is a bit less than half my life). I get by on being a stubborn, contrarian SoB, which of course comes with its own problem, and keeping both the emotional exhaustion and my inner jackass as hidden as possible.
I find it actually pretty soothing that Ruth is so calm about this. It is obvious that she has thought about this long and hard, coming to terms with her own chosen fate. Or she just finds Billie’s reaction kind of funny
I find it actually disturbing… sometimes people who have decided to commit suicide actually experience a calming right before, because they finally feel like they’ve worked everything all out and that there is a solution.
It really should be worrying. She’s reached that point where she’s completely given up on herself, to the point where she finds the idea of someone caring about her to be funny.
As someone who lost two friends* to suicide during university back in the early 1980’s, some of the comments here that are straight out of the Scientology Handbook Of Rugged Individualism, are becoming a gravity lens, distorting my faith in the Millenial Generation. Fortunately, most who post here abhor that narrowcasting viewpoint, and Damn You Willis is Ruthless in deleting and banning those who cease to be human.
*total aggregate does not include drug overdoses or single car accidents.
I want to put this on my wall. This was the strip that made me realize I have never related to anyone, fictional or otherwise, as much as I relate to Ruth right now. It was also this line of thinking that made me think I need to try antidepressants again.
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Aww, Emotions.
How the heck do you keep getting first comment
what is this wizardry I don’t even
RSS feed, probably
Stop with the emotions, and get back to the whiteboard dingdong flimflam!
Dingdong flimflam nubnub
Dingdong Flimflam nubnub riffraff
Ruth: NOT HELPING
Man Ruth, way to be a jerk about saying your going to a depression, what with that smile at the end
If you’re going to be depressed, at least have the decency to be upset about it!
Seriously though, ever see the Depression comics on Hyperbole and a Half? There’s a bit where the main character tells a friend she might be suicidal, and she says so perfectly matter-of-factly and her friend is the one who is in tears and needs emotional support. Last panel reminds me of that.
that’s basically how it is, yep
right? experience it and you’ll know. You have this cold detached humor about it. Like, “wow, I can’t believe this, I actually wanna kill myself. That’s hilarious. When did it get this bad?” Depression sucks bro.
The first time I told anyone I was suicidal–after feeling that way off and on for more than twenty years–I was so nervous that I was shaking violently. I thought she would have me committed on the spot. But three therapists, two psychiatrists, two boyfriends, an academic advisor, and some close friends later, it’s easier to come out as having severe clinical depression and wanting to kill myself. It’s just like coming out as gay becomes easier. Doesn’t change the suicidal feelings (or the gayness), but it makes it easier to admit and talk about. And if someone responds with, “OMG, I had no idea you were going through this!,” my feelings are, “Meh, that’s my life” and it sounds not serious at all . . .
I was hanging out with my friends a while back, and someone brought up Robin Williams and that it looked like suicide. Somebody said something like “I don’t know why someone would do that,” and I said “I don’t really know why anyone wouldn’t.” I wasn’t even thinking it was a big deal, it just seemed like the right thing to say.
That’s the thing about depression… everything sucks, but you just don’t have the energy to actually take it seriously.
You know because of the name that I use I often get people’s combined sympathy and fear, but the truth is I use it because of this very fact, Its not about the fact that suicide is some kind of joke or that I even want to do it, its because at the end of the day there’s this simplistic feeling of acceptance and peace too it. I’d never advocate anyone to take a life especially their own nor do I believe I ever would, but that feeling is still there its the fact that the world isn’t fair and life just happens and eventually your both drained and tired but somehow actually fine with it. I’ve been there and I know that i won’t ever come back but I can at least carry the name and let people know its not about the life your letting go of its about accepting the one your coming from. Also the Giraffe is because Giraffes are awesome.
the BEST part about depression: when those who love you so much tell you how much of a jerk you are for not being depressed in the “right way”……………….
They mean well. Everyone interprets what it means in their own way, and they try to help whichever way they go. It’s a brutal thing to go through, on the inside and to watch someone go through it, especially when the only one who can really do a thing about it, is the one suffrering too much to fight it.
this one?
Ah, yes, the good ol’ “I wanna die, but don’t want to actively do anything about it” form of depression. “I wanna go to sleep and not wake up” Is how I think I once put it.
Which is very much not to be confused with “I wanna go to sleep and not wake up for a week” which is a stage of insomnia. Or a sign you’ve eaten too much at thanksgiving.
How was she being a jerk? She’s just expressing how she feels for once.
She wasnt, its just that sometimes those people you care about feel like you aren’t taking your feelings seriously or something. They dont always understand that keeping a distant perspective of your own emotions can sometimes be the one thing that keeps you alive
Because she’s still being emotionally manipulative about it? Ruth has set up a hostage situation where she is both hostage-taker and victim. How is Billie not supposed to feel super guilt-tripped when this was all triggered by booze on her breath and Ruth lists loneliness as a reason for her suicide? It feels as wrong as when Ruth forced a kiss on Billie, because it all smacks of “you haven’t behaved in the way I wanted you to, so I going to kill myself, slowly,” with a little bit of, “why won’t you save me?!?!?” on the side.
I could not have described the situation better.
Depression sucks.
That said, Ruth is just being DoA Ruth here, still looking for social dominance even in this sort of moment. In other words, a bully.
I thought I was the only one who saw it that way. I’m so glad not to be alone on that…
Who would Ruth be holding herself hostage from if she hadn’t met Billie? Because I’d guess this is exactly how she already felt before the two ever met. Billie was Ruth’s “last hope.” Which means before Billie, there was no hope, just as she doesn’t have any now.
Ruth still cares about Billie deep down– after all, Ruth is maintaining her facade for Billie’s sake and not her own. She wasn’t going to tell Billie any of this stuff (thereby averting any “hostage situation” to begin with), but she can’t exactly withhold her dismal state of mind right now while being directly confronted. She didn’t want any attention to this in the first place– this confrontation was triggered by only two words slipping out– yet somehow it’s her fault for being a guilt-tripper via telling the plain truth when her privacy is invaded, she is cornered, and the plain truth is being forced out of her?
I have to agree with Gigafreak here. People who use suicide threats as a form of emotional manipulation generally don’t hesitate to use it. It’s a card they’ll play early to get the results they are trying for. She was trying to distance herself from Billie so as not to impact anyone once she decided to end her life; telling Billie about these intentions basically ruins that plan. If Ruth’s plan was to try and bind Billie closer to her, she would’ve said something like this FAR before now.
You do realize that Billie was the one who backed Ruth into a corner and forced the truth out of her, right?
Omg Ruth NO
So. Severe Cynically Realistic Depression. The worst kind.
I think I have some t-shirts that escaped the fire…
It’s basically a defense mechanism. Things get a lot easier to deal with once you DECIDE you can eventually have a final escape. It’s really only the initial “oh my god I seriously want to die” stages that are emotional.
It is comforting to be able to get what you want.
yup.
the times I’ve thought about it, it’s been very much an attempt to find some part of my life to feel I have control over, even if only whether to end it.
And then, of course, I think of all the reasons why it’s not really an option – loved ones, etc. – and, if anything, that’s even more depressing. “Great. I don’t even have that choice, that sliver of power.”
That depends on how you define power, as a concept. Most people think of it as only being able to change something, but I think it might also be the ability to resist it as well. Imagine Niagra Falls. Imagine just how much it changes it’s own surroundings. Now consider us, and how much effort, how many years of technology that we needed to even be able to affect it, even a bit.
Everything’s an option. The fact that we can stop it, to choose to say that things won’t change like that, for us or anyone else, is power in itself.
*looks for his Lita Ford record*
Holy shit I used to LOVE that song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foGkU6x3eSE
And Stephen, once again, brings forth the appropriate musical accompaniment to the strip
I prefer Tom Waits when it comes to depression themes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3xzb2eubf0
I’d say https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEXQkrllGbA is a better fit
Shit, it just occurred to me that with the slow progression of time in this comic, A) Ruth will probably never get around to going through with this (which is good), but B) by the same token, we may be watching her slip agonizingly into despair (let’s call this process Winkerbeaning) for a good long while before she gets help or it takes effect.
To sum up: Damn you, Willis!
Let’s hope he doesn’t go full Winkerbean.
Ruthy Liquorliquor
“Lesbian Nachitos Lesbian Transformers. Transformers Cancer Cancer.”
“Oh crap, it’s starting…”
Or worse, full Wankershim.
I have no idea what Wankershim is, but I know what Winkerbean is and I am guessing Winkerbean is worse.
it’s a reference to Bravest Warriors. Go watch it, NOW.
Wankershim is an AI elf that was made real somehow and then expanded to the point where the Universe is now inside him. As he was a fundamentally happy little elf, the Universe actually became much better off for it. But imagine if Willis expanded throughout the universe, his very essence becoming instilled in everything…
in short, Drama Tag Pulled.
goddammit why can’t I whip out these far-fetched analyses when I’m writing essays
because essays matter
brains only start working on time-wasting internet discussions
so true.
The other problem is, by that logic, Ruth can also never truly get better. There simply isn’t the time for her to do so. To recover from these thoughts requires time and therapy, and Ruth doesn’t have the former. And the terrible thing is how accurate this depiction is; meaning that since the treatment of this situation is depicted so truthfully, Mr. Willis is well aware of what is required to treat it and won’t simply write a magical cure/treatment as a way of helping Ruth. So Ruth is going to be stuck with these thoughts for a very, very long time.
tldr: shitnuggets.
I thought it was tl;dr: Damn you Willis
I’m pretty sure Willis said that the comic’s pace would not necessarily be even, meaning that some jumps forward in time could be possible?
Well look at how much time has actually passed in comic vs the number of events that have happened. So many characters have gone from not even knowing each other to having extremely strong relationships over the course of less than two months, including Ruth and Billie. And it’s not just relationships, pretty much every major character has gone through some sort of significant change and many have had several life changing events happen to them. Realistically so much stuff wouldn’t happen in so little time, but because the story is ongoing and the characters cannot graduate for the comic to function properly, time has to be slowed down, and this means that events have to occur faster then they normally would. I guess what I’m trying to say is, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ruth’s recovery ends up being faster then some people think it will be.
Whaddaya even doin Ruth
Ruth really REALLY should not have this job.
Given some of the RAs I had in college, it doesn’t seem like they are really choosey. Mostly just trying to find anyone who will take the job.
Are you a warm body, without a crimal record, with passing grades? That’s about the extent. They are often still undergrads, and often not much older than their charges. Mainly RAs are there to keep the froshes from demolishing the buidling they inhabit.
Ehh… “passing grades when we hire you in the summer. once school starts if you fail thats fine. We won’t know till your done with your contract”
One of my RAs ended up having to leave school early to go into rehab, because she developed a crippling drug habit while in school.
RAs are not magical, world-experienced beings who can guide college students on the path of right and good while actually doing something about the whiteboard dingdong bandit – they’re college students, just like their peers.
Ruth is fucked up even worse than Shinji was and that kid was fucked up.
If Ruth is Shinji, then is Dina PenPen?
Are you kidding? Dina is Rei.
Nobody is more fucked up than Shinji; I’m pretty sure even the show said getting that fucked up ends the universe or something
Maybe that what Willis has in mind D:
To be fair, Ruth has yet to rub off over a comatose Billie.
… That we know of.
So that’s what happened after Billie fell asleep in Ruth’s closet.
Damn – I was gonna say that. **pout**
So a few years back, I was curious, and went looking…
And if what I found is at all representative, that show is so fucked up that it even gets into the porn.
The porn is more well-known than the actual series.
I brought up Evangelion once and some non-anime-fans responded “Oh, that Chinese porn?”
Rule 34: why we can’t have nice things.
Considering I’ve seen an Eva dojinshi where Shinji turns his dick into a helicopter rotor and flies off, I’d say that’s a good assessment.
Get in the fucking Billie, Ruth.
at least no one is shoving her into a giant mech that can’t go farther than its plug will let it
Ruth get in the fuckin’ Ultra Car.
I don’t know, Shinji actually did pretty well considering. I mean the only problems he had were that his father didn’t love him, he piloted his mother to fight aliens(which he handled superbly for a non-combatant) and he was afraid of getting involved with people because he didn’t want to get hurt.
I don’t know why you think his father didn’t love him. Did he not gift him everything in the world and then some?
It was Shinji who didn’t love his father, and then wondered why he prefered to spend time with the people who built expensive toys for Shinji.
And seeing as he was actively involved in combat, how can you call him a non-combatant?
He was untrained and unprepared for combat, and if that was fatherly love, I’ll take impalement instead.
Unlike you, Shinji clearly preferred combat to impalement.
After he piloted his EVA for the first time, he couldn’t stop grinning, and yet he was still complaining.
>I don’t know why you think his father didn’t love him.
…because he treated him like absolute shit, didn’t care one whit for anything Shinji wanted, killed the only friend he had managed to make in front of him and then berated him for being emotional about it, was so scared of his own son that he turned him into nothing more than a tool in his mind, constantly called him a failure, emotionally manipulated him (and everyone else, really, Gendo is a giant manipulative asshole) repeatedly to make him do what he wanted, and in general systematically demolished any self-esteem Shinji attempted to sprout to make sure he was controllable and pliant?
Gendo was a fuckhole that Shinji didn’t love because he didn’t deserve to be loved, and he was the primary cause of most things that went wrong in the entire series (the rest were the fault of his wife).
Though to be totally fair, Gendo was just as fucked up as Shinji, he was just perpetuating the cycle (which is still worthy of blame, just a bit more understandable).
Odd, because the rest of NERV got along with Gendo just fine.
Not really. Almost everyone disliked him. Misato hated his guts. Ritsuko was in an extremely hurtful attraction/hate relationship with him. Kaji thought Gendo was a jerk. Even his “partner in crime”, Kozo Fuyutsuki, was a bit put off by him, he admits. But NERV needed him, and SEELE wanted him there because they thought he was working for them (spoilers, Gendo is only working for Gendo). So they put up and shut up. Hell, at the end, even REI tells Gendo to fuck off and die, and Rei was literally bred by him to be subservient, since she was his tool to bring about Third Impact.
Gendo Ikari is nearly the definition of a toxic person. Most people don’t want anything to do with him, and the people who care about him or what he thinks are only diminished and hurt by it (the Akagi mom and daughter, Shinji). He is every bit as damaged as Shinji, but while Shinji turns it all inwards in a self-destructive manner, Gendo destroys everyone else that gets close.
That’s what being manipulative IS.
I see what you did there, huh.
Are we going to have to play Komm, süsser Tod in loop again?!
“See? There you go, caring about me again. Stop it. Stop it this minute.”
No good comes of it and you know it, NO good.
Geez, Ruth maybe dial it down a little. The campus is gonna be flooded with Billie’s tears.
A nice change from it being flooded with Billie’s Beers.
I haven’t seen Billie Beer since Carter left the White House. Just sayin’
Whoops! That should be Billy Beer http://www.drunkard.com/issues/55/images/billy-beer-2.jpg
I think both work, don’t you?
somebody needs to get that beer and this beer :
http://cdn.beeradvocate.com/im/beers/76816.jpg
and take a photo of them together
Hey, she asked for it.
I have this said to me, not in those exact words. Billie’s face perfectly captures how that moment felt.
I have had this conversation as well. Depressed people don’t see suicide as sad or terrible. It’s very hard to have a conversation with someone who thinks they want to end their life about it.
It doesn’t help when you have depression yourself (which is part of the whole problem with Billie and Ruth’s situation, trying to prop each other up when they’re having trouble standing themselves).
My best friend and I are kinda like this. I actually described us as an “arch” a couple weeks ago. Neither of us can stand well on our own, but we can lean against each other. We’re both struggling, but with different things, so we each brace the other against whatever comes our way.
Don’t worry, we’re doing fine.
I like that, an arch. Glad that you’re both fine. 🙂
I have been on Ruth’s end, and it was… odd to have someone agreeing with me (and the third person looking, horrified, at the both of us)
I’ve been on Ruth’s end too. It’s really hard to process someone freaking out when you think suicide, or a similar death, is inevitable in the near future and are okay with it.
I don’t even remember who I explained things to the first time that finally got me to a psychiatrist, much less what I said. All I know is my family then proceeded to go “D=!” over it because my mental state at the time was “Well, people would be too sad if I killed myself, but it’d really be nice if I’d never existed in the first place” and people who care about you don’t really take well to you not caring about yourself.
Seriously, follow the hover-text’s advice.
And when said hover-doctors can’t/won’t do anything effective, despite having harassed them over such things for years…?
Um… it generally takes years to find the right meds for one’s specific causes and form of depression. So what are you getting at?
Hover-doctors don’t write prescriptions. Joking aside, cynicism is a natural reaction to doctors after years of nothing working.
Ok.
So I’m living proof that when they find something that works, it can be super effective.
There is hope for all! Unfortunately depressed people can’t see it. 🙁
no no no no nO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
INTENSE TEARS
Deer God the tears are stronger than Acid please stop!
Oh god Billie. OH GOD RUTH.
Seriously Ruth?
Yes, Kiva, seriously.
And Billie loses it in 3… 2 … 1
Willis if you kill off this Ruth I will burn down the internet
he said he’s not killing off any chars, so don’t worry about it going that far
And I will rebuild it from the ashes, become a captain of industry for my efforts, make billions of dollars, buy the Transformers franchise, and never release a good Dinobot figure ever again.
You evil bastard.
I never liked the dinobots.
I think they are an insult to dinosaurs everywhere.
Saying that is like saying Optimus Prime is an insult to semi-trailers everywhere.
Would you like to be reduced to a mindless agent of destruction that looks like a callow zombie?
This is Willis we’re threatening.
You’ll never release a Hot Shot/Bumblebee ever again.
The characters will only die in a post-mortem fireball upon Willis’s own death, because once he can no longer physically update, THEN he can take them all down to Hell with him!!!
wait I mean no nobody’s dying here
At the rate he’s going now, assuming he gets run over by a bus or a meteor falls on his house or something it will be another 4 months to a year after he passes that the last page goes up… Now if he gets some horrible wasting disease that keeps him from drawing for several months before he finally goes, well the update schedule might get a little spotty before everything goes dark.
But yeah, nobody is dying in this comic.
There’ll be a “death update” where, like with the Gmail option [I think it’s Gmail], if you don’t log in for some specific interval and don’t respond to a reminder notification, it will send a notice to all your contacts that you have most likely died.
For Willis, the criteria would have to be “more than a day w/o update or other arrangement”–which would still be months after the fact.
Alternately, if there are a significant number of days without comic commentary…
It all returns to nothing, it all comes tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down
It all returns to nothing, I just keep letting me down, letting me down, letting me down
In my heart of hearts
I know that I called never love again
I’ve lost everything
everything
everything that matters to me, matters in this world
You know what they say.
Some things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad.
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you’re chewing on life’s gristle,
Don’t grumble, give a whistle!
And this’ll help things turn out for the best
And
Always look on the bright side of life!
*clap clap clap*
I read half of that in the previous song’s melody before realizing what’d happened and goddammit.
Considering the last verse, might not be the best song for the circumstances.
(Life’s a piece of shit when you look at it, life’s a laugh and death’s a joke it’s true…)
But that is an amazing combo.
Always look on the bright side of death *whistle*
Just before you draw your terminal breath *whistle*
That’s the theme song to It’s Walky!
Ah, Komm Susser Tod. **slow clap**
… is it sad or scary that I know the lyrics well enough to identify them at a glance?
Nah, Same here.
Although I’m also hearing Florence + the Machine’s “Hurricane Drunk” in my head now.
Don’t worry, I recognized them too. Of course, it’s also my favorite song. I feel a certain kinship to it.
(Don’t worry, I’m too lazy to do anything rash. Um, other than eating WAY too much junkfood. That I have energy for.)
now I’m imagining Joyce (your grav) fat on junk food and she STILL LOOKS ADORABLE LIKE WHAT
Well this strip just took a turn for The Sopranos
I’m recalling the Bi-Awareness day with Billie saying “All eyes on me!” That applied recently to Danny being bi but also I see a second meaning here. Everyone’s so focused on Billie’s depression we didn’t realize that Ruth’s was even worse.
thANKS AS IF THIS WASN’T DEPRESSING ENOUGH
Oh wow, insight on depression is depressing 🙁
You didn’t get she was this bad after nearly drinking herself to death?
it was kinda hard to see (for me) before, seeing as I don’t drink, but her demeanor matches mine from when I was suicidal so closely it ain’t even funny. In fact, it’s the opposite of funny.
More than that, she was clearly attempting to drink herself to death. Go read the strips while Billie is getting her cleaned up. She wanted to die.
That would be one of the differences between being depressed and clinical depression. It seems many here (not you specifically) don’t know the difference. This is depressing. One day I shal write an article on this.
Part of the reason we “didn’t realize”, and that we “focused” on Billie is that we simply see more of Billie, Billie’s problems, and Billie’s reactions. In very general terms, Ruth mostly appears when Billie’s around, and most of the insight we have into Ruth’s problems come from Billie being there to observe.
Billie’s very much a “viewpoint character”, while Ruth is not one. It’s only natural to focus on what we-the-readers can actually see, and pointless for us to attempt to focus on problems we aren’t actually aware of. That Ruth was suffering from this level of depression is something that was revealed at today. The one who’s “at fault” for focusing too much on Billie is David Willis.
i have too many feelings about this
RUTH BBY
Ruth Lessick’s a college RA
Dum dum dum dum dum
She doesn’t seek help with depression
Dum dum dum dum dumb
Feels alone yet doesn’t haft to be.
Dum dum dum dum dum.
Finds her closest friend’s concern funny
Dum dum dum dum dumb
I’m hearing that to this tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaC5ZKRjLUM
Hey remember when this chapter was just about some random person drawing wieners everywhere, and the closest thing we got to serious drama was Carla being upset because she thought she was being targeted but then she found out everyone got dicks, so she thought it was funny?
Good times.
I’m starting to miss those times.
I’d better go back and reread Danny/Ethan awesomeness to cheer me back up.
Ruth makes everything more unpleasant, it’s pretty much built into this version of her character, she’s a depressed, lonely, alcoholic with anger issues who can’t properly express her feelings when she really needs to so instead lashes out at people and deliberately tries to hurt them.
Except for Parent Week, where she was a beautiful breath of fresh air.
University – and life in general – will do that to ya, Ruth.
Just as every silver lining has its cloud.
*agonized wail of feelings*
The agonized wailing wall of feelings – the pieces of paper mostly say “Damn you Willis”.
For a moment there, I thought this sentence was “agonized WHALE of feelings”, and I wassuffering people had discovered a new spirit mascot for these situations.
*was wondering if, ugh stupid tiny phone touchscreen keyboard.
“I’m a Feelings Whale, weeping at the bottom of the ocean. Go Dragons.”
But who was the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit?!
Booze.
Who WASN’T the dingdong bandit!?
Inside all of us lives a dingdong bandit.
My guess is, it’ll be dropped when someone googles how to remove permanent marker from whiteboards and/or they accept the penis-boards as they are, and the whole thing will be a sort of running joke in the comic and comments section.
Dina. She just wanted to fit in.
Only the hottest of lesbian fucks will cure her despair. Here’s your chance to be a hero, Billie! Take one for the team. You know you want to. Search your feelings… you know it to be true.
Like, I know these are fictional characters and you’re just trying to be funny, but it feels way gross. This strip hits way top close to home (two queer girls trying to navigate their depression and feelings for each other, the casual hints at suicide the one girl drops to the horror of the other). If hot lesbian (which I guess you’re shorthanding for “women attracted to women”, since Billie and Ruth are both bisexual) fucking solved depression I know at two lives that would be a whole lot simpler.
ty for this
I can add two more lives to that as well
I figure it’s pretty much impossible to be funny on such a serious and realistic topic.
Sometimes I wish this comments system had likes or upvotes.
I want lesbian sex as much as everyone else apparently does but I don’t see this going there. Yet.
Guys, Cholma’s comment is what Billie/Ruth shippers sound like all the time. the ladies are not well, it’s been made clear for a long time now. But all that ever gets posted is ‘they need to have sex’ ‘kiss her now!’ etc..
Technically Amber/anybody shippers have the same problem (part of what makes the idea of Ethan/Danny so popular is that it’s be a healthier step for everyone involved in that extended scenario)
Agreed. My ships for Amber, Ruth and Billie are all /emotional wellness and healthy self image. Shortpacked! Leslie/Robin is much simpler to be excited about than DoA Billie/Ruth because Billie and Ruth have still got so much to work on before they even think about anything resembling a romantic/sexual relationship. Of course, people who aren’t in a good place psychologically have lovers in real life, so it wouldn’t be unrealistic, just not ideal.
Even more than that people who aren’t in a good place mentally need lovers. Seriously, do you know how many people have killed themselves because they couldn’t get any and felt completely alone? In cases like those abstinence kills! Sex is for some the only time they feel connected to another human being, and for some the only time they feel anything except depressed. Times like this I’m really glad these are just characters in a comic…
God dammit stop saying how I feel on a regular basis
Sorry Dude(tte), I’m just speaking from long personal experience. Seriously fucked childhood with mild autism and a bit of ADHD (1960s era DOD dependant with moves every few months made developing relationshipsrather difficult), followed by surviving a murder attempt for existing outside the accepted norms as an adult (who knew that some people would go so batshit over a guy riding a bicycle at night?) that led to PTSD (another major depression trigger).
Well, in those cases was it really the lack of sex, or the lack of someone to emotionally connect with that was the problem? Sex in and of itself doesn’t imply any emotional bond. I think our society places too much emphasis on sex as the ultimate expression of love and devalues other kinds of love as less important and meaningful. And “abstinence kills” makes me think of Elliot Rogers… people deserve help with emotional pain (from qualified professionals and willing members of the social circle) but no one owes anyone else their body.
OK that last sentence hurt a little. I wasn’t implying that anyone “owed” anything, I was stating a fact, that depressed people who are denied the connection of a sexual relationship sometimes die as a result. We really need sex worker stamps for stuff like that. And come to think of it I think there are some sex workers who are doing it as much for the connection as for the cash.
That’s true, isn’t it. They should all stop smooching and start seeing a dang counselor.
Man, Ruth’s story is seemingly such a yawning chasm of tragedy that it almost loops back around to being funny. She’s completely accepted this… eh, whaddayagonnado… and now she regards Billie’s anguish with amused detachment. “Aw, look at that! Caring! I remember caring about whether I lived or died like that, once. That’s so CUTE!”
Ruth seems like she’s pretty much given up at this point and she’s just been doing her best to hide that fact. But Billie pushed and pushed and now she has to confront that reality. The hovertext is super relevant here, Ruth is really not healthy right now.
You know, the sad thing is that a lot of people think others suicide to “get back” at people, or to get attention, not because they’ve completely given up on themselves and the world. It’s not easy to process “staring into the chasm” so to speak, when you never have yourself. Also, I can totally relate to Ruth hiding it from people. It sucks to be a drain on others when you’ve already given up on yourself.
“Your heartbroken terror is nostalgic.”
It’s a very realistic depiction of depression. When you can’t go through a normal day without your head barraging you with hateful thoughts, suicide starts to seem like the only way to make the suffering stop. “Sadly”, there are all these people around you who’d be sad if you were to die, and you don’t want to be a horrible person and make them sad. But if they were to stop caring about you, then you’d have less reason to feel guilty about killing yourself.
You don’t even need to be actively suicidal to think like this; just having suicidal thoughts make you recognize that if you don’t have any friends, you can’t be a horrible person and hurt anyone.
yyyup.
God damnit. Do I really have to bring this ship back to port?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im0e3SH_Po0
okay, time to archive binge until the next strip comes out
so apparently ruth and billie are wearing the same outfits they were when ruth first came in and drank with her
Heyy, nice catch.
The colour-scheme (Billie in yellow, Ruth in green and black) is also their original Roomies! colour schemes.
and I’m done!
wow, that was a somewhat unpleasant trip through comment section memory lane
…and I really should’ve done it after I woke up instead of pulling an all-nighter
(btw, I’ve desensitized myself to danny being bi, which is pretty dang depressing because I have nothing to uplift my spirits anymore ; – ; )
Not again.
Now she’s watching 24/7 steeling your booz and switching it with Root beer
delicious
Ugh. It’s so bubbly and cloying and happy.
Just like the Federation.
And even if it does wander off, you’ll find it coming back and beating you into submission at the least provocation. Sorry, Ruthie.
That’s… basically how I feel almost all the time…
Please read the hovertext and take it to heart.
I’m working on it. Been trying to get an appointment for what feels like forever.
If this is seriously how you feel, you should go talk to someone. If you are in the U.S., you can call 1-800-273-8255. (I’d guess you could call them anyways, but I’m not sure)
Yes, you can call them anyway. Suicide prevention is a continuum — most folks think of it as talking someone out of killing themselves on the phone, but there are a bunch of other interventions which also apply.
Also, if you’re in Billie’s shoes and someone you care for has expressed the feelings Ruth has, then you can refer them to the help line, but it’s also a good idea to call the help line yourself. Hearing somebody say that they just want “to slip away” is terrifying, and the lifeline folks are trained in helping caregivers, too.
I used to volunteer on a suicide hotline. There’s no wrong time or wrong person to call, you don’t even have to be in a crisis this second, just go for it. 1-800-SUICIDE. <3
Then see a doctor. Now — if you are feeling this way, then you are suffering from a life-threatening illness called ‘suicidal depression.’ If you have the means at hand, then don’t wait, call 911 or go to the emergency room.
Why go to the emergency room if you aren’t in IMMEDIATE threat (like you just cut yourself)? I thought the ER was only for physical injuries.
In the US most people only contact with mental health care is via emergency rooms because they can’t refuse care there.
Americans are weird like that, we tend to believe that mental ilnesses are either not real or “LOCK THE SICK FUCK UP RIGHT NOW”
“So you’re bleeding a little internally, and you’ve got a collapsed lung. Lots of people have it tough. You just need to work on having a better attitude.”
That’s what it seems like sometimes, yeah.
If you are not only thinking of suicide, but have assembled the means and have them to hand, then you are in the middle of a life threatening emergency. You need help *now* — you are an immediate threat to yourself.
The ER handles a lot of psychiatric emergencies. It may not be a fun experience, but as far as I understand it is generally effective (in terms of getting help, getting checked in somewhere, etc.) to go to the ER if you’re feeling suicidal.
In my experience, not so much. It wasn’t me who went in, but an ex. She got kept in the hospital for a couple weeks, was given some medication that didn’t do anything, and was just let go. They didn’t do anything about finding her long-term care.
Basically, they just babysit you for a while, and then off you go.
This, absolutely. It depends a lot on your insurance as well- if you have very good insurance, you may get sent to a nice facility, but generally they cubbyhole you and forget about you until they’re legally protected, then eject you while you’re still drugged into a daze and let you solve your own damn problems.
Nah. When I reached the top of my first mania, my sister took me to the ER and I was put on a 5150. ERs are for mental breakdowns as much as the other stuff.
I do not have the means at hand. I’ve been pretty careful about making sure of that at all times.
Good for you for protecting yourself from yourself; that’s important. Make the call first thing in the morning; you’ll be surprised how quickly you’ll get in to see someone.
You are smart. I hope that appointment comes soon. Sounds like you are planning for your safety like a boss.
Are you seeing a doctor? It’s time to see a doctor. <3
Oh god, seeing Billie’s face in that last panel was horrifying. Like, jump-scare levels of startling.
See now, Billie, with an admission like this you’re fully within your rights to call the police for a welfare check and have Ruth committed to a psych ward for 72 hours so she can be diagnosed with the obvious clinical depression she has and start treatment.
“YOU’RE A CHEERLEADER. TAKE CHARGE.” the random commenter shouts into the void
At least Ruth has someone she feel she can actually say this too. Imagine she was even further down the hole and brushed her off to prevent Billie from, as I sure Ruth would view it, relapsing into caring more about her.
This is a very important point. She does still care about something. And that can help draw her back.
Ruth probably cares about Howie too.
I think a person really only needs one solid, compelling reason to live, because that gives them time. You use the time to build a life for yourself in which there are more reasons. With Billie and Howie, Ruth has at least two reasons. A fine start.
However, since Ruth’s suicide plan is probably to drink herself to death, compulsively buying the means to do so is Not Good. I want her to say why she always throws it away.
Yes, if you are depressed, invent time travel because by the time you have completed a time machine, your depression shall be gone.
But seriously yes, if you develop depression, go get professional help, immediately – tis important to get help.
The problem comes in when you’re so depressed that you think seeking help won’t do any good and/or if you don’t have the motivation to do what it takes to get helps. That’s why it’s so important for family, friends and caregivers to seek help for them if need be.
Also sucks when you don’t seek help not because for those reasons but because you don’t want to bother anyone else.
Hell I actually really hate the whole emo bashing meme, I have no idea how much people still do this, because I’m sure its stopped some legitimately depressed people from looking for help because they don’t want to appear like they are hunting for attention.
My parents legitimately believe that people who are depressed and/or suicidal are seeking attention.
And they also think an emotional addiction to electronics is something to be controlled, not cured, but really that’s just me venting and doesn’t have to do with this discussion.
Yeah, that is one of the views on depression I personally DESPISE from parents – it makes their kids unable to share a legitimate problem – you almost always need support for depression from someone, like a parent or a friend or a sibling.
That’s one of the views that prevents them seeking help – and is also one of the views that leads to depressing predictions like that the third most common cause of death by 2020 is meant to be depression.
You know, that’s always bugged me, the idea that somebody is “just” seeking attention. When somebody feels terrible, and asks for some attention, maybe we should give them some freaking attention.
It’s my biggest pet peeve that people go “Oh, they’re just seeking attention” without looking into the WHY. We’re social creatures, of COURSE we seek attention.
^THIS^
yay, I got THIS’d on the internet! It’s so nice knowing that someone shares my opinion.
Sounds like you were raised by wire monkeys.
No, my parents just have really old-fashioned beliefs, and they don’t really know how to deal with my problems.
I’m sorry. That sucks.
My in-laws are the same way. If I am overheard by my FIL even mentioning my anxiety disorders to someone else I’ll get an instant earful about how depression and anxiety don’t exist. They’re just things hippies made up as an excuse to get attention and be lazy and the whole world bought in to it. *serious eye roll*
If I try to defend myself or argue that they are just as real as the diabetes and heart disease he struggles with I just get shouted down until I give up, so when he starts I just get up and leave the room.
I’ll never convince him that those disorders are very, very real nor that I struggle with my anxiety issues every single day, so to save my sanity I just don’t even engage with him over it.
It can really hurt, though, when someone basically calls you a liar that just likes to stir up drama or portray yourself as a victim. Especially when that person is family. When they’re a person that’s supposed to support you not tear you down.
Yes – that is why it is important to be supportive of others when they think they are depressed or you think they are depressed. Depression is a serious issue – but in almost all cases, if the person gets the right support, and the right treatment, they can overcome it – it takes a long time, usually 6 months to several years.
But sadly, a lot of people still don’t get treatment that could honestly save them from themselves. Not always because they never tried, but because the current views on depression are pretty awful still. Some people still don’t believe it exists. Some parents deny their child could have it. Friends don’t always know how to react to it. A lot of people don’t know how to properly reach out for it either.
“Some people still don’t believe it exists. Some parents deny their child could have it.”
My mother and I have had some serious problems all of my life – I am the child she didn’t understand and couldn’t relate to – but when I told her at 15 that I had tried to kill myself the night before, she was on the phone in less than a minute and we were in the car on our way to a hospital in 10. (Helps that she was a nurse with a lot of favors available to call in)
I try to take that page out of her book while I’m raising my kids. Listening to them and taking their problems seriously, letting them know they can tell me anything and above all making sure what they need to be healthy and hopefully happy. It’s the most important thing I ever learned from her.
I think I’m gonna give her a call.
What I think is sad is the number of people that don’t get treatment or don’t get adequate treatment either because they can’t afford it or it’s not available to them.
When you have depression (or anxiety or a number of other mental illnesses and disorders) it can be hard enough to reach out for help. If you do find the ability to reach out only to discover that you can’t find a therapist in your area that’s taking new patients, or your insurance doesn’t cover therapy or covers so little of it that it’s cost prohibitive, or any of those other roadblocks, it can be absolutely crushing. It can destroy any remaining desire you had at seeking help and destroy any hope you had left that you might get better.
All the feels that come with this after Robin Williams’ passing. I still would have these feels, but I think it would impact more people now.
Between this and MTMTE 32, comics want me to drown in my own tears today, don’t they?
Except for the alcohol, that line of thought sounds too familiar… Um…
So, how about those whiteboard dingdongs?
I understand they go away if you just …
…ignore them?
Dingdong bandits are just looking for attention. Don’t give them any, unless you are a dingdong smokey.
Why do I think that this song kinda fits the mood?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=didzxUkrtS0
I’m kinda feeling this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95coZOf31fs
Don’t mean to get anyone else more down but I feel like saying that this is how I am. Just replace Billie with family and a bottle with my arteries. Yes I’ve seen a doctor.
I hear ya.
If your doctor is helpful, then great, keep that up. Also you are emotionally badass for getting some help.
If your doctor wasn’t that helpful then please remember that each therapist is very different. Don’t give up, find a better therapist for you.
Thinking of you <3
I said thanks but I can’t see it now so, thanks
Wow… damn… I’ve… been that low. I had a bright future in front of me, and then I fucked it all up. Luckily I had people strong enough to pull me back.
And if they hadn’t, I wouldn’t have become a parent, or probably been able to come home when my mother passed away, or any of countless other moments worth cherishing.
Ruth, the thing is, when everything’s wearing you down, you need things to build you up. Start with a friend.
Sounds like your present-and-future-self has wonderful stories to tell your past-self. That is great. I’m glad you found such success.
Depression is a bongo like that. And alcohol is really only a temporary cure.
And yes, I speak from experience.
And Billie’s never seemed so helpless in her life. Former friends telling her off, lovers wishing to disappear – nothing she’s had to handle before, and right now nothing she CAN handle….
You know what? I think Billie is one of those people who deal with the worst of themselves by kicking ass for other people.
Billie is very definitely not healthy in and of herself but she can be good in a crisis..and this is pretty much a crisis.
I think she has the potential to handle this.
I agree. I keep seeing Billie’s pain and helplessness and then total emotional strength for others. It makes me wonder if she’ll become a therapist or similar emotional warrior in ten or twenty years. This is one way social work students get made.
Head cheerleader.
Problem solver.
first she’ll have to get over her superiority complex, though. It helps to see people as not-ultimately-beneath-or-above-you.
True. Way less judging, way more listening. But life is doing a pretty solid job of knocking her off her high horse, so I figure she can learn in time.
At least she’s assertive. She’s just the type to go, “No, fuck you, we’re getting you help NOW.”
She is already doing a pretty good job of that recently – she actually called Walky and Joyce friends, had invited them to sit with her, told off Alice for trying to bail just because they were going to join – Billie, though it may not seem like it due to the crying and stuff, is currently on a roll with developing into a better person.
more people focusing on Billie, rather than Ruth, who LITERALLY just laid out all her terrible problems for us to see. I want to see MORE, dammit!
Does the college not have psych services? My college had free counseling for students.
It does, but Ruth is hiding her depression at this stage. The best possible outcome is if Billie can get her to seek help. (It’s tricky because depression itself often prevents people from reaching out, like they might think it’s pointless because they can’t access hope, or they might be full of self-blame, etc.)
And people can be reluctant to go because of bad experiences with mental health care in the past (victim blaming doctors, abusive psych wards, inexperienced therapists). And it’s especially hard to get decent service if you’re a US citizen who’s uninsured or on Medicaid.
Or they can try to reveal it with ‘hints’. Or wait for friends to excessively ask if they are okay. Or hide it but expect people to notice anyway.
Depressed people do some…unorthodox things to try to get help because they don’t always know a better way to reach out unfortunately, which leaves some of them untreated sadly.
Dropping hints — particularly offhand suicide threats — is exactly what Ruth did here, by the way. And Billie recognized the severity of those threats, and acted on that knowledge. (Yay, Billie!)
Remember: Unless you know otherwise, every suicide threat is serious. If you hear what Billie heard, follow up with the speaker.
She didn’t THREATEN suicide, that makes her sound like she’s using it to manipulate Billie. She just made it known that she’s suicidally depressed.
I wasn’t talking about this strip, I was talking about this one: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/not-yet/
I completely agree with you about this strip; this is a full on acknowledgement that Ruth is thinking about suicide and has an active plan to kill herself. That’s completely different from the earlier one, which was a hidden suicide threat. Billie recognized it and responded. (Yay, Billie.)
Oh! I see it now. Thanks for linking the strip. I didn’t really think it meant anything at the time.
Alright! I knew when I got hit like a ton of bricks with the onset of my chronic depression in freshman year, it took me a few months to get help. I just hope Ruth can get to that point. She’s trying to shoulder all her stress by herself and that’s not something she can carry.
Many people who are depressed don’t realize they need help, or don’t think they’re worth getting helped. And there are people like myself, who know that we need help, but get anxious every time we try seeking it. There have been several times I’ve tried to call a therapist only to start panicking before I finished dialing the number, and ended up just putting the phone down.
It’s a bad cycle. I know I need help. I want to get help. I try getting help but panic and don’t go through with it, which makes me feel even worse. I know it makes no sense, but logic doesn’t really come into play here.
I hear you, and that’s not uncommon.
Is there somebody who can hang out nearby when you call? Pets are good for this too.
(Also in case the mystery is part of the panic, you won’t be talking to the doctor on that first call. Probably a nice secretary will answer, you’ll say you’re a new patient and would like to schedule an appointment, then you’ll put it on your calendar. Then you’ll say thanks and bye.)
Good luck!
You could also get someone you trust to call for you.
My husband has called on my behalf several times. Sometimes I’ve asked him to and a couple times he made appointments for me because I needed them but kept insisting I was fine.
Each time he’s made the call for me there hasn’t been a problem. They didn’t ask why he was calling and not me. They didn’t ask to speak with me directly. Simply the usual about what date/time is best and what insurance provider did we have, and ‘okay see you then.’
If you really feel like you can’t do it, have a partner, a family member, a close friend or whoever do it for you. And if you feel like you need the added support, ask that person if he/she will go with you. He/she doesn’t have to go in with you if you are uncomfortable with that. If they’re willing, they can sit in the waiting room or in the car. But I find having someone you trust go with you can help ease the anxiety immensely. Plus, having it established that they’re coming too helps to keep you from making excuses not to go. Especially if that loved one is willing and able to tell you that the only way you’re not going to the appointment is if he/she genuinely needs to take you to the ER.
God -damn-, Willis.
It’s good shit, but God -damn-.
OK I have never been this depressed, but damnit I know what she’s talking about. The PTSD didn’t set in until the statute of limitations on prosecuting the guy that tried to kill me passed without any word from LEO on finding him. I didn’t know at the time he had already killed himself in a car wreck, or it wouldn’t have been so bad because Karma took care of what the law failed to correct. Well one of the side effects of PTSD can be crippling depression, as in “Why should I even bother to get out of bed today?” depression. Like I said, I wasn’t suicidal, but just because I didn’t want to kill myself didn’t mean I didn’t want to die. I am (mostly) better now, but things get a little strange for me on the anniversary of my death. Those things kinda change a person. And to use Python quotes “I got better”, and “I’m not dead (yet)”.
anniversary of your death? How close did you get to the edge?
I was two minutes without pulse or respiration when I “rebooted” myself. Everybody figured getting hit by a truck going that fast I had to be dead. Survival for people not inside a motor vehicle at the speed I was hit is somewhere between 3 and 5 people per million wrecks, and I was riding a bicycle home from work.
Wow. That’s incredible Opus. I’m glad you made it through. Best wishes for Sunday. I mean all that very genuinely.
And I should mention the anniversary is this Sunday.
congrats on living, and I now respect your gravatar so much more now.
That bike was either the 4th or 5th bike after the wreck. I looked at as “If I quit riding my bike then that bastard won, and I won’t let him win.”
Hard core. Glad you made / are making it, man!
I hope you don’t mind, but I actually marked it on my calendar, just ’cause it seems like such a momentous occasion. Expect a comment on the Sunday comic.
Mad respect. And best wishes to you this Sunday.
confidentially i’m not in this webcomics thing to tell stories, i’m actually just assembling an army of unkillable badasses one by one, who i will eventually march across the face of the earth and install a new world order
fuck yes, I can get behind this
DINA WILL BE QUEEN
Oh, good. That’s a relief. I thought you were up to something nefarious.
I get it now! The feels is just a way to break down the opposition so that they are easier picking when you launch your final lightning comic attack.
Brilliant!
Well then I have more hit points than Goku, but my movement has been reduced since that battle… 😉
Incidentally I’m adding that to my resume, could I use you as a reference for “unkillable badass”?
“Opus the Poet: Bike Rider. Unkillable Badass.”
Damn Straight!
As someone who has been on the giving and receiving end of this type of conversation…Damn.
Though I don’t think this is the kind of thing that can be fixed by a doctor.
Psychiatrists and psychologists are doctors, and it worked for me.
Worked for me also. It’s the big first step.
You’d be surprised. Acute depression is usually treatable medically. Chronic depression usually requires a combination of medication and counseling, but can usually be managed. (Not cured, managed; chronic depression is like diabetes.) Bipolar affective disorder (manic-depressive disease) also responds to medication and therapy, and can usually be managed.
A problem I’ve experienced personally, though, is that it’s much easier to blame new problems on the medication and not deal with it.
This comic & comments are really hard to read. A lot of people being supportive, and a lot of people are being brutal.
Earlier this year, I went on vacation for a week. I had a great time, loved seeing my friends, but I was so tired all the time! Near the end, I went to a mental health meet-up (I’ve had chronic depression most of my life), and cried for the ENTIRE HOUR. I tried to do so quietly, because I didn’t want to interrupt anyone, but it was almost impossible. I had no idea how badly I was doing until I listened to all these other people in the same kind of pain. Stupid sneaky depression, skipped the usual warning signs and went straight to wearing me down! Still struggling to get it back under control.
I hadn’t gotten to Ruth’s stage at that time, but I’ve been there before. It’s not fun, and it’s hard to talk about because you know everyone around you will be sad you feel that way, or mad at you for feeling that way. Just another layer of exhaustion.
You people = my people.
Seriously, it feels like most of us here in Commentland have dealt with severe depression at one point or another.
People with depression, on the Internet? Get out!
I *know,* it’s so *strange,* isn’t it?
(
It’s Ruth’s disbelieving smile in the last panel that really does it. ‘I knew you would care, because you care for me, but why the fuck do you care for me when even I don’t care for me, you idiot? And why do I kinda like having you care, even though you shouldn’t and even though I’ll just end up hurting you more, and it will hurt that much more because you care?’
And the answer to every single one of those questions is “because I care”. Which makes even less sense, but is true anyway.
“Why? Why do you persist?”
“Because I choose to.”
I will never not ship these two. Ever.
Well….. that’s…. damn you Willis….
^Billie’s reaction^
Is it bad that I laughed at the last panel? I … uhh … [slinks away]
The last panel is ALWAYS the punchline panel. NO EXCEPTIONS.
We should pass a law to require that the punch line be in the first panel half the time.
Yup. This is exactly how it feels. You don’t care that you’re suicidal. It’s just one more thing you no longer care about. You think, I could kill myself, but there’s X, Y, and Z to do / care about. And then one day, without you really noticing, there’s only Y and Z to do / care about. I guess the trick is finding an anchor strong enough to resist the erosion until you can crawl back out of the darkness.
say whu…. oh Ruth….
Having just looked my own depression in the face and begun to get treatment for it, my heart goes out the both Billie and especially Ruthless. I know that feel far too well. Thanks for breaking my heart with a character I started off hating, Willis.
Ruthless is a lot like most people. They suck until you actually get to know them.
Also, I think the proper way of thanking him for breaking your heart is “Damn you, Willis.”
Ok, I don’t know how to phrase this in a way that doesn’t sound… disrespectful. I guess I’ll try my best and you can rag on me if you feel I’m being insensitive (Just, try to rag on me with constructive criticism, I guess).
So, Robin Williams committed suicide recently, as I’m sure most if not all of you know, and a lot of comments about how “the happiest people are usually the saddest” have been floating around. It’s been conflicting for me because I do stand-up comedy in Mexico and a lot of my colleagues here have shared so many articles on how comedians suffer so much. None of these people are careful about making jokes about people with mental illnesses but they share these articles as if to say: “See, I am a tortured soul!”
But I’ve had friends like Ruth that are just so tired and at some point trust you enough to confide on you how tired they are and on the one hand I want to tell them “but you have to STAY because I’D MISS YOU” and on the other hand I realize how incredibly selfish that is. But I can’t know their tiredness, I can only stand aside a be witness to it and hope that they find a reason to carry on. And it angers me SO MUCH that these comedians who will joke about people who have suffered abuse suddenly have the gall to use the death of someone to act as if they’re victims. Even if they make no move to feel empathy (let’s not even mention creating empathy) for other people.
This, of course, does not include ALL comedians, but it’s a considerable amount and I just feel like they’re trying to act as if suicidal thoughts are a thing of the trade when, really, they’re a larger part of the human experience than any of us, I think, would feel comfortable admitting.
I don’t want to censor what these comedians say or share, but I can’t quite find words to express why what they say bothers me (and, also, how do I know they haven’t struggled with suicidal thoughts?) so I just fall back on a quote I found sometime ago:
“Don’t focus too much on the negative in someone else’s work. Don’t make it your crusade. Spend that effort making your own work better. Make your work the counterargument to the work you don’t like.” ~ Ronald Wimberly
And that is all I can express right now.
I’ve recently read some interesting articles on Cracked about how some comedians became comedians as a method of creating a fake persona that people would interact with so that the real persona could stay distanced and, well, fester. It seemed plausible enough that I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that a disproportionate number of comedians are much more depressed and unhappy than they look…especially since they don’t look at all unhappy.
And I’m pretty sure the fact that comedians joke about mental illness is no reason to think they don’t have them. Aside from the “write what you know” thing, I get the strong impression that many comedians consider ANYTHING fair game and do all their censoring based on anticipated audience reaction rather than any personal concern about a subject.
I haven’t been to Cracked in a while. I will check them out. Thanks for your answer. 🙂
@the first part of your third paragraph: You have to show them that you ARE a reason for them to stay alive, and try to be there for them, and set yourself up as someone to confide in. You CANNOT take a passive approach when someone is suicidal.
or, um, SHOULD not, anyways
it kinda depends on how close you are
This can be a literal lifesaver, I think. In my experience, and based on what others have said, that first step from depression to being suicidal is realizing that you might want to die. I think it’s there that most people see the most basic threads keeping them alive, and for a lot of people, one of the big ones is “who I would leave behind/who would be affected/upset/etc. by my suicide.”
I see both your points but I also feel one cannot take the responsibility of making sure someone else does not commit suicide.
I don’t think you are being particularly insensitive – but comedy is a rather touchy subject. With a good set up, a lot of jokes about things you would normally go ‘DEAR GOD NO’ at can seem hilarious because you know they are jokes, and those aren’t things they believe are right/true.
I can see your point that some things aren’t really the best things to joke about – but I also think it should be up to the comedian themselves as to what is ‘too far’ for them, because comedy itself isn’t meant to be taken seriously in the first place.
It is also quite common for people with depression to pretend to be happy or like normal, so I do believe them when they say they are often more depressed than they look – I can see why you’d be angry about them going ‘we’re depressed!’ when they joke about suicide and depression though. It seems hypocritical, but it could also be part of a coping mechanism they’ve developed by being comedians, joking about it can make it seem less serious, ya know?
Good comedy comes from pain.
You fleshed out what I feel some of them have not been able to tell me. Thanks. 🙂
I think it makes a big difference whether the punchline is making fun of abused people or a horrible situation or abusers. Sometimes we joke about terrible things as a way of criticizing them without depressing ourselves more.
Yeah, that’s the thing. I feel they’re mocking depressed people (as opposed to creating empathy by talking about their own depression and trying to find humor in it).
And another close to home feeling. Started around 15 and popped up a bunch of times afterwards for a few years and then slowly went away. The reason was a guilt and desire to punish myself, then I thought it would be a more fitting punishment to keep living with the guilt. 6 months after turning 24, finally decided to talk to parents about looking for a therapist. Currently working on a lot of those issues. What got my attention about trying to see a therapist was due to a combination of things that included reading Questionable Content(came across Faye’s entire backstory) and a Disney movie that has become insanely popular called Frozen. The other things are more along the lines of less media related events. So….confusing and weird tangent/rant/ramble,at least disorganized, but yeah. Hopefully this will move into a lighter direction, but currently a reminder to try and not to regress. Thank Damn You Willis and Jeph!
Way too tired to think of a stinger other than”I need to think of funny things to say to make my crazy emotional stuff end on a light note.”
You know, I would say that the immaturity on display here by Ruth–loudly declaring that she has self-destructive tendencies that she’s keeping in check supposedly for Billie’s sake but really so that she can revel in her Martyr complex–is ugly and unpleasant to look at and just makes her that much less likable as a character…
…but at least she’s TALKING. She hasn’t learned yet that not engaging with others is the best way to make sure that you won’t have to engage with others in the future. She hasn’t learned yet that the best way to revel in your own depression is to demure from social engagement with off-hand remarks like “I’m not feeling that great, I’ll turn in early” that give you an excuse to retreat from those who would otherwise be willing to help you without explaining to them why it’s necessary to spend the rest of the night thinking of an efficient and automated method for disposing of your own body after you die from a self-inflicted wound or poison.
Here, immaturity may yet be the salvation of these two women… at least, for now.
I’d say it’s pretty damn mature to be able to turn your feelings into words and then admit them to another person.
The phrase you’re looking for is “experience with how people’s minds work.”
How is what Ruth’s doing “immature”? Immature is slamming someone against the wall and kissing them after. This is honest-to-god verbal communication of feelings, which is about as mature as you can get.
I’d say it has an off-flavor of emotional manipulation where Ruth has threatened suicide because Billie didn’t behave how she wanted her to (booze) and didn’t “save” her (loneliness).
Talking is a good thing, but how long has it been since they sort of broke up? A day? Two? I’d be more inclined to call Ruth mature if she didn’t have a history of being an abusive, manipulative jerk.
Billie demanded the answer to her question, several times, before Ruth obliged. Her having the bravery to talk about it at all is laudable.
Under most circumstances, yes. But Ruth is a bit of a controlling bully. In a way, she’s forced Billie to come to her by first shutting her out, and then dropping “yet.” She’s forced this whole situation by not giving Billie any help whatsoever (which was all Billie was asking for when Ruth kissed her).
Also, the day(ish) after cutting a romantic interest out of your life is not exactly the best time to come out with, “I’m so depressed on my own, I’m going to kill myself.” That’s all kinds of wrong. That just screams manipulation.
Ruth forced Billie to ignore her clearly stated “forget me”–in a conversation which only happened because a friend of Billie’s asked for Ruth’s help as the RA–break into her room, and demand answers three times while Ruth scrambled to deflect and told Billie to leave? Wow, Ruth’s mind-powers are impressive.
Billie demanded an answer, and she clearly wasn’t leaving without one. Ruth’s options are either to tell Billie the truth, or lie. I am not okay with saying she’s a jerk because she didn’t lie about feeling suicidal.
Ruth isn’t being manipulative here. I can see where she would be, and has been, but this doesn’t reek of manipulation. Or, if Ruth is trying to be manipulative, it’s to Billie’s benefit–she wants to harden Billie toward her to make it easier on Billie.
Ruth and Billie have reached a point where Billie sees through Ruth’s tough RA persona to the broken person underneath. Ruth doesn’t have any reason to hide her vulnerability anymore, and she isn’t. That doesn’t mean she’s an emotionally healthy person–neither of them is an emotionally healthy person. But she’s not trying to manipulate Billie with all of this.
See a psychiatrist Ry.
I wouldn’t call Ruth’s mental state a martyr complex. For one, it doesn’t seem to be characterized by a desire to be a martyr (or a victim). Rather, it’s probably the normal facet of depression where the sufferer feels conflicted between the desire to not cause emotional harm to anyone, and the desire to just be gone. They recognize that if they were to kill themselves, a lot of people would be sad. Ruth, pragmatically, probably just wants less people to care about her so she doesn’t have to feel guilty about her suicidal thoughts.
Yes.
When you’re in that hole, you still care about other people. Just not yourself.
You know everyone (including you, ’cause then you wouldn’t have to feel what you’re feeling) would be better off, but you also know they wouldn’t feel that way, so…
(yes, the above thought process is exactly as fucked-up as it sounds.)
But when you’re depressed enough, the thought-process seems like a perfectly clean and logical truth.
^
Jesus. Billie’s face in the last panel. It tears at my heartstrings.
Well I kinda just want them to couple up. and neither of them to die.
They’d be a lot less destructive if properly together and both properly open about how fucked up they are. They’re both getting really good at catching the other’s bullshit
In addition to an earlier comment from me: definitely been having a hard time keeping myself from feeling like Ruth does right now after reading almost any kind of news from the past few weeks. Therefore, I ask everyone to either find a friend feeling down and hug them, or sing a song that makes you happy. What time is it?Sleeping time. zzzzzz
I have mixed feelings about shipping them. Two messed up people like that getting together can grow into some serious codependency issues. At the same time, if they are aware of their problems and work on them separately and together, they could have a very good relationship.
I CAN’T STOP THIS FEELING
DEEP INSIDE OF ME
GIRL YOU JUST DON’T REALIZE
WHAT YOU DO TO ME
In all seriousness, though, I fully recognize what Ruth is going through. Depression really sucks.
Huh. Suicide ideation comics . . .
Not only did Danny realize he was bisexual until circumstances similar to those in which I realized I am bisexual, but this is also the EXACT conversation I’ve had recently with my boyfriend (from Ruth’s perspective). Dammit, Willis, do you read my LiveJournal?!
(I do not have a LiveJournal. The rest of it is true.)
Willis’s superpower is to predict other people’s lives and weave them into his own through comics to create a complex world where everybody is shipped with everybody.
Now you need to join me in Willis’ army of unkillable badasses (grrrr) 😉
please let this be the next comment meme
Having been through something like this, I just really want to give this fictional character a virtual hug. 🙁
Some people don’t want hugs.
Kind of an unnecessary comment, but whatever.
Some people desperately want a hug, but they don’t know how to ask for it because their brain is telling them it’s selfish and undeserved.
cj might have meant, some people would rather deal with things through discussion, or other means, rather than deal with a hug from another person.
In a lot of cases, the hug is more for the giver’s sake, than for the recipient’s.
If it does well for the recipient, that’s fantastic, but..
Well, generally speaking, unless you know the person well enough to know they want it and are just denying it for themselves, it’s better to ask and go with what they respond they want.
Else they may get upset, and you may lose all chance at communication.
Not that that’s relevant here, really; the only people at risk of hugging are Ruth and Billie, and I’m pretty sure both of them’d be at least somewhat okay with it.
Jesus Christ Billies face
I struggle with depression. Thankfully I did see a therapist and take medication for it which has helped a lot. That said, it doesn’t completely go away. This really hits home. With all sincerity, thank you Willis.
Please don’t kill Ruth again :(.
🙁
I hope, at some point, Billie gets a moment of clarity and realizes Ruth could have just talked to her about the booze on her breath (or done anything at all) instead of cutting herself off completely, only to come back to threaten suicide. I don’t care if Ruth’s depressed; Billie could/should call her out on that sh**.
It’s a lot easier to find excuses to push people away.
Ruth didn’t threaten suicide. When prompted, she told Billie that she wasn’t yet ready to “go drown [herself] in booze”, in the sense of “drinking heavily”. Billie parsed that as potentially meaning something more (presumably suicide), and Ruth came back to talk to Billie because Walky begged her to.
Ruth certain didn’t seek out Billie to purposefully threaten her with suicide.
She most certainly did threaten suicide. The original comment about “Doing it and just slipping away” is a classic suicide threat — go back to this strip: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/not-yet/ and look at the comments. Readers freaked out, recognizing the statement for what it was.
Willis, thank you for this. Thank you for realistically depicting what it’s like to feel depression. I often have to say the same things to myself: “I just have to hang on for a little longer. I’ll wait until after my friend’s birthday. I’ll hang on until this movie comes out.” For me it’s a way of keeping myself alive, but I know how fatalistic it sounds. I also want to slip away someday, just stop existing, but I would never say this to my family or friends. I’m glad Ruth can open up to Billie, since Billie seems to be having the same sort of issues. Maybe not full-blown depression, but she’s questioning her worth as a person and that never leads to fun times. One of the few reasons I’ve kept suicide at bay was because I had support from my friends going through similar things. When you get in that messed up headspace the only people that get through to you are people who’ve been there themselves and know what to say.
Now that I’ve got all that out of the way, I really want to see these two hug. I don’t care if they hook up, I just want them to comfort one another. They both deserve a little comfort.
Depression, seriously is like the most freaky monster of self loathing and worthlessness. The scariest part is, even when you get to a high point and actually feel good for once it sneaks itself back in when your not looking. And your brain is working against you waiting for the opportunity where there is nothing else to distract you to go “Hey… Psssst… over here… remember that thing you’ve been trying to forget… lets think about IT for a while…” Then we go full circle back into the depressive cycle.
The messed up part of it is, when you finally break that little circle, and your in the clear it leaves a scar, a deep one, that keeps a smidgen of doubt and fear inside you… as if your just uncomfortable with being happy, and just waiting for some seriously new depression to set it. And that in and of itself can become a new depressive cycle…
Agreed, to everything in the above comments. I’m only just getting back from out of my latest spiral and it is still so hard not to hate myself sometimes, and it is the worst feeling in the world to have your brain working against you. And the worst part is because your brain’s the part not working right, you end up feeling like crap and then it convinces you you deserve it. And even if you realize you weren’t always this hopeless and miserable, getting yourself out of the hole your brain’s dug you is just so difficult it doesn’t seem like you’ll ever get back to it.
thiiiiis.
So much this.
Yeah, definitely this. I wasn’t always this hopeless and miserable, but I can’t imagine going back to how I were before I got to this point. Because It feels like that me is dead. Gone. I am damaged, and I can’t imagine how I could be repaired.
And the worst part is the self loathing, hurting myself. And telling me I’m not worth saving, that I deserve it.
I’m not back from that get, because despite me gradually learning to ask for help for the last two years, I have gotten none for the last year, despite the feeling that I’ve looked into every option, every version of help I have the right to ask for. I’m glad you’re better off than you have been, Regalli. I hope you don’t get worse again.
Ruth noooooooooooooooo
Billie’s face. Why must it hurt so!
This hits frighteningly close to home. And some of the comments…god. Keep it bottled up, you’re immature. Talk about it, you’re immature. There is a Perfect Way to Be Depressed and Suicidal or else nope, I guess.
I’m not sure if you are refering to comments here instead of past personal experence, but if it’s the comments here then part of the problem is that people are reading two differing comics. In one Ruth is being a manipulate jerk and in the other she is being brutally honest.
I can see that, but … I don’t know. I don’t really have good enough words at the moment. I don’t think Ruth is being a manipulative jerk. She can be a manipulative jerk, but this isn’t it.
After the awesome of the comic, let me establish my shallowness by commenting, “I did’t know you could get a doctorate in frigging.”
Paging Dr. Kinsey, Dr. Masters, and Dr. Johnson…
And so the other shoe finally drops. I was wondering why I was so sympathetic to Ruth. Turns out it’s the obvious – she’s dealing with the same shit I’m dealing with. Luckily I’m couple small steps ahead of her but I was in the same grim place not long ago.
On another note completely, I have noticed there are now three people using the name of Sam in comments here, including me.
This comic hits a little too close to home. :/ And also probably the first time I’ve *truly* related to Billie.
And now I can’t even be mad at the person I was mad at this morning cause I just feel all sad and guilty now. 🙁
It’s strange, though I have at times wanted to die, the thought of, for example, slitting my wrists was and is really offputting. Maybe it’s because I (think I) can imagine the physical pain so well.
She makes it sound as if being RA is a life sentence. University is only four years. (Okay, more if you change your major a bunch of times or something, but still.)
For depressed people, the next few years is often the furthers they are capable of imagining in any real sense. For Ruth, four years of college might as well be forever.
One of the worst prognostic signs for depression is the inability to picture a future, or at least, a bearable future. If next week is inconceivable to you, 3 or 4 years is a freaking lifetime.
That’s where I am. I can’t imagine not being depressed. I can’t imagine being… whole. Happy. I feel broken, and I don’t see how I could possibly be repaired.
Also, to the alt text… I saw a friggin’ doctor. a year ago. But they quit. And now I’m in some kinda therapy limbo where no one has helped me for over a year, despite me asking multiple doctors and places that whoose job it is to help me.
I don’t think it’s really about her job, as such.
Feel like that?
I have to remind myself that most people don’t feel like that most of the time. I’ve felt like that most days for almost 18 years (which is a bit less than half my life). I get by on being a stubborn, contrarian SoB, which of course comes with its own problem, and keeping both the emotional exhaustion and my inner jackass as hidden as possible.
These two are going to kill me, I swear.
The last panel is scaring the shit out of me. O_O
I came here to laugh, not to feel!
I find it actually pretty soothing that Ruth is so calm about this. It is obvious that she has thought about this long and hard, coming to terms with her own chosen fate. Or she just finds Billie’s reaction kind of funny
I find it actually disturbing… sometimes people who have decided to commit suicide actually experience a calming right before, because they finally feel like they’ve worked everything all out and that there is a solution.
It really should be worrying. She’s reached that point where she’s completely given up on herself, to the point where she finds the idea of someone caring about her to be funny.
wow, Ruths situation is frighteningly familiar, just waiting until your loved ones inevitably leave you so your death hurts as few people as possible.
Billie…kiss her,.you fool!
As someone who lost two friends* to suicide during university back in the early 1980’s, some of the comments here that are straight out of the Scientology Handbook Of Rugged Individualism, are becoming a gravity lens, distorting my faith in the Millenial Generation. Fortunately, most who post here abhor that narrowcasting viewpoint, and Damn You Willis is Ruthless in deleting and banning those who cease to be human.
*total aggregate does not include drug overdoses or single car accidents.
: (
I want to put this on my wall. This was the strip that made me realize I have never related to anyone, fictional or otherwise, as much as I relate to Ruth right now. It was also this line of thinking that made me think I need to try antidepressants again.
It’s really sad that the happiest Ruth has ever been in either universe was getting herself killed in a car crash to save the most hated character…
oops i’m ruth