She’s going to have to learn to accept her own sexuality SOMEHOW, but I doubt we’ll get an alien device to create an evil twin to set off the epiphany in this universe.
Wonder if she’ll turn full Anti-Joyce on Ethan. At least Ethan’s both resistant to feminine wiles and level-headed enough to potentially talk her through it before she makes a big mistake in a libido-driven frenzy.
I think that if Joyce wanted help and asked, Sarah would help. But Joyce has made it clear she doesn’t want to change, so Sarah isn’t going to waste her time trying. Joyce is an adult and can make her own decisions.
(The problem, of course, is that her parents are abusive assholes who did as much damage as they could before Joyce was an adult. If there was any non-horrible way to limit parent’s control over their children, I’d take it in a second.)
As someone from a counry that has never permitted homescooling, the whole concept boggles my mind. I can’t fanthom a single reason for it to be permitted or why it would be a good thing at all.
Well, when it’s not being used to indoctrinate kids into Christian fundamentalist/evangelical beliefs, and done by intelligent, motivated parents, it can have pretty good results. Sadly, in a lot of the USA, the public school system is not all that good.
The operative words being “intelligent, motivated parents”. I’ve known three lots who home school their kids. One does it because her daughter was deprived of oxygen as a child and needs a slower pace now. The others do it because the Internet told them “society is evil, LOLZ” and they live by those profound words. I wouldn’t mind so much if either of their teenagers was actually able to read and write at a basic level, but they can’t. The parents plonk them in front of the television with a bunch of flash cards (pre school style) and expect that to replace the entire school experience as what they need to get on in the world. Granted, that’s two sets of people and not the entirety of homeschooling, but it does show a shocking lack of oversight for these people.
There is nothing wrong with homeschooling if it is done right. In my state, you are required to have a degree in education to homeschool your child. That is a good requirement. You should not be forced to send your child to a public school where many teachers use it as a chance to indoctrinate your child. There are tons of great teachers out there interested only in educating children but for every one of those there is another that just wants to force feed your kid their agenda. If you don’t want that to happen and have the education + drive to properly educate your child? Nothing wrong with that. I can’t see a reason why it WOULDN’T be permitted.
Bantha: At issue is whether or not the parents are actually motivated by a desire to provide a quality education, and whether or not they are capable of providing it. I used to date a girl who had a degree in education; she was also an unwavering believer in Young Earth Creationism. She was doing sub work when we dated; if she was at a public school, she stayed inside the lines, but would quite readily teach YEC as truth at private religious schools, and I have no doubt would home-school her kids the same way.
So frankly, in order for your system to work, you first have to tighten the degree requirements a fair bit. You also need a system in place to monitor the curriculum, and the child’s progress. Since the folks who most loudly support home-schooling are the same ones who believe that the Ebil Gum’mint is attempting to enslave us all to Satan, they tend to be a bit reluctant to comply with that sort of oversight.
“Indoctrinate”? What? I was a product of one of those public schools and I don’t remember being “indoctrinated” into anything. Well, other than communist homosexual atheism. But that’s just libs for you, am I right???
Do public schools still teach just communist homosexual atheism? That’s so last century. Today’s kids will have to fnord be well versed in black Jewish illuminati communist terrorist homosexual bankster transgender hipster copyleftist atheism to be successful. If your local public school doesn’t teach that subject, better send your children to a private school that does.
When done properly educating at home can be far superior to school. Children get to be out and about in the real world, not shut in a classroom. It doesn’t suit all children, in the same as school doesn’t. Children who are bottom of the class at school can really flourish when freed from the arbitrary rules and procedures. The UK home education environment is far removed from the stereotype of Joyce.
It’s in the UN charter of human rights than parents should have the right to educate their child as they see fit. As long as we lack any universally recognized superior school of thought to educate all children in, that’s probably the best we can do.
My mom did it for a few years, and for a very good reason too. My older sister went into fourth grade with a sixth-grade reading level, and left with a sixth grade reading level. The teacher’s response to her already knowing the material, instead of getting a couple higher level books for her, was to use her as a teacher. She learnt almost nothing that whole year.
She based the whole curriculum off the Laura Ingalls Wilder books, it was fun, and when we went back to school, having switched to the next nearest school, we were both ahead of our peers.
I have heard of a family whose 10 yr old daughter developed a sensitivity to the fluoride that was put into the school’s water supply. The teacher’s solution was to put the girl’s desk into the corner, facing the wall. Even after the doctor had prescribed filtered, bottled water for the girl.
When the parents did a surprise audit, they found their daughter in the corner. The girl was removed from that school within 48 hours, and the parents started homeschooling her with good results.
On the other side of the homeschool coin, are my three nephews, two of whom have dyslexia, who didn’t start getting anything resembling a good education until they started community college. I think the middle one, who didn’t have dyslexia still resents his parents for that decision.
I mean, I was homeschooled all the way until college. It affected how I developed in some good ways and some more neutral ways, but I think that I would have just developed different quirks if I went to public school. I’ve known a lot of thoroughly awesome, well-adjusted homeschoolers; like anything else, the extreme examples are what you tend to hear about. For the record, neither of my parents have a degree in education… We used a mail-order course until those ran out, then I joined a local homeschooling group and took some college classes. I’ve been very happy overall with being homeschooled, and from how I’ve seen others do, I’ve seen it work very well for others.
I don’t think so. I think she had one bad thought and is now tearing herself up over it. She’s probably months, if not years, from acting on those thoughts.
I am 50% sure that would make everything even worse and the other 50% sure it would make everything completely weird.
How would that even go?
J: “I can’t think about men because of religion.”
H: “I don’t WANT to think about men because of neuroses.”
J: “Well, it’s been nice talking to you.”
H: “You, too. Now, what’ll you have? The specials are BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS and BUTTS.”
Don’t forget, Joyce is a die-hard, science-disbelieving fundie while Hanners’s dad is a scientist in a space station and her mom is literally an evil corporate overlord, complete with shark tank.
I’d ship that. Of course, they’d only go so far as to shake hands, and Hanners would insist on using gloves followed by copious amounts of hand sanitizer.
Yeah, exactly! It always confuses me when I hear religious people speak bad of sexuality, as it seems to me to be an insult to their own God, implying that he did a very poor job creating us.
Whenever I had any doubt if God had any problems with me touching my own body, I just looked down and saw that my hands, hanging down, line up perfectly with my equipment. Coincidense? I think not!
Sadly, no matter how old you get, there are always going to be worse experiences.
Spilling maple syrup on yourself and being swarmed by bees for example.
It’s actually ‘Lass es gehen’ if literally translated, but I’m guessing it’s more ‘Lass los’ in the German, which is the proper expression. But I haven’t actually seen Frozen in German, I’m just guessing this from being a German person lol.
Never understood the obsession with that movie or that song….well any song from Frozen. The movie was “So So” at best and the songs are just plain irritating. Eh, to each their own.
I think a huge amount of the appeal is just how different it is from other children’s movies.
*MINOR SPOILERS!*
Not ONLY does the main character not find her entire fulfillment in a romantic relationship, but it highlights the other types of love that can be part of a fulfilled life, such as sibling and friendly love. The end is kind of a profound statement as well. In most movies, an “act of love” is selfishly supposed to be acted on the main character, by someone who has little else to lose. In Frozen, the main character realizes that SHE can act with love and gives everything to do so. It’s a pretty strong departure from the norm, and a refreshing one I think for many people.
Then again, on the other hand there’s just the Anna/Elsa shippers…
I’m not sure whether to thank you or curse you for pointing that image out.
On the one hand it gives even more context to this strip. On the other hand now I feel like I need to go back over every single Willis strip ever to look for anything else I may have missed.
Moment when I joined the “Damn you Willis!” brigade achieved. 😉
See the thing is there’s nothing forceful about it apart from locking her in there. If she had no sexual urges she wouldn’t have an issue being in there with said hairbrush and magazine. It wouldn’t hold up in court if say, you were locked in a room with a bunch of pot, papers and a lighter, and your defense was “They FORCED me to smoke those drugs!”
See, I thought Sarah was being pretty considerate by toning her comment down pg-13 level with a hairbrush and swimsuit catalog, rather than a porn mag and a vibe. At least she’s not just shocking Joyce for the sake of shocking.
I just relized something Amber and Joyce are kind of the same, their both reaching a cross road where I think something in their mind is about to just Break.
Also I love how Joyce is framed in the same part of every frame in this strip; I know it’s a shallow read of it but I enjoy how the positioning alone shows how stuck she feels.
Also something something Sarah and phallic shower head positioned in same side of strip something something
I like that movie just fine but I haven’t seen it since high school. It’s apparently on Hulu, so I might give it a rewatch. Also would VERY much like to read the manga. I think I’d like it better now than I did back then.
I would “to Mangafox!” but last time I did, they took down something I was reading because it ended up getting licensed as I was in the middle of book #9/13…
I’d say she is. Joyce is in an unfortunate position – she’d prefer to have no sexual urges until the day she is married, and then have sex with God’s (and her nana’s) blessing and acceptance. Her body has other ideas. Its hints and suggestions are starting to become demands.
She has a lot in common with Ethan – they both have bodies that are seriously into men. And both wish they weren’t.
I think she’ll choose to deal with them in the Christian way – that suffering builds character. It’s not wrong, up to a certain point, but anything taken too far becomes immoral.
Oh man, a LEGO version of Joyce would be adorable. Actually, come to think of it, it’s been more than 15 years since Roomies! started, maybe someone’s already made one.
There is a connection in the brain between perceptions of emotional warmth and cold and the physical perceptions of warmth and cold. When people are lonely they tend to also feel cooler and can be comforted by hot showers.
Did everyone here forget that so far her only experience with sex is being drugged and nearly raped? Don’t you think its also possible THATS why sexual thoughts upset her not just because her family is religious? Though that does probably compound things
Was Mike instructed to hit Joe if Joyce had a sexual thought about Joe (or even Mike)?? That’s quite an agreement Joe went with there (to be fair, it was some dress too).
There’s no evidence that Joyce is thinking about that right now. (Plus she barely remembers it, at least while awake.) There is LOTS of evidence that she’s is wracked with guilt over her sexual thoughts, and that it’s 100% due to her religion. Starting with the fact that she has outright said so.
Ha ha reminds me of the “good times” when I heard of guys in church “holding each other accountable” to break the “addiction” of “sinful” masturbation. Basically, you’d tell somebody you could trust when you slipped up and “gave in” to your addiction under the premise that you’d over time stop doing it.
So basically, being forced to share intimate sexual details with a non-doctor to shame you into not doing something totally natural that feels great. Yay church! Shockingly, I am no longer a Christian.
+1 to Wack’d!
Also: didn’t notice this until you pointed out.
Also also: Pretty sure, based on where it was seen earlier, that it’s Ethan. Good ol’ hairy-chested Ethan.
You know, I think that you guys are all overlooking something.
Aside from the fact that Joyce has a tradition christian upbringing, she was also almost taken advantage of a few months ago (comic time) which left scars on her. My personal guess is that, while the thought of sex flits across her mind, she also gets reminded of what happened to her, which stops her from attempting to engage in self pleasure.
That would make sense for someone else, but we haven’t seen anything to even slightly indicate that. Her hangups appear to be purely based around her religion, and since she made it clear she’s never done it,, the issue clearly started before the Bastard entered her life. If the torso looked like Bastard, maybe, but it’s just a generic dude.
Also, in context it’s clear that her current episode of shame is brought on by her own sexthoughts, and I don’t see that being something that reminds her of Bastard. On that night, she wasn’t having sexthoughts, she was having “playing board games and being Queen of the Drunks” thoughts.
Bastard probably factors into her dating someone who doesn’t want to have sex with her, granted. And there’ve been cues to that. But I feel like if this strip was meant to suggest the attempted-rape connection, then yes, the torso would look like him. (I’m not the only one who thinks it kind of looks like Joe, am I?)
Actually, this is getting WAY messed up for Ethan as well as Joyce. Ethan accepted being Joyce’s fake boyfriend because she made an excellent beard for him, since she wanted no hanky-panky–or so it seemed. And she chose him for a boyfriend because she sensed his lack of sexual interest in her (without understanding it). BUT his body is attracting HER “sinful” urges. Look at the strip Cholma linked and Joyce’s dream about Ethan along with today’s strip. That all is NOT what Ethan bargained for. You’d almost think he doesn’t understand repressed girls from extreme Christian sects.
So I think the deal here is that this isn’t Shortpacked Ethan (or for that matter It’s Walky Joyce) we’re looking at here, it’s the 18 year old version. When my brother, who is pretty damn gay, was that age, he too had a girlfriend. Unlike Ethan, he hadn’t acknowledged his homosexuality but I can certainly see where, even if you *are* in that position, you’re still figuring out what’s immutable about yourself and what isn’t. If he was a real guy I knew, I’d be prepared to give him a break about this and promise only to kick his ass if he got married or something.
Yup. That is not a “happy fantasy”. If she was just having lustful thoughts, I have a feeling she would use a certain “caramel flavored” mental image. This comes off as a much darker, more painful, memory. This universe doesn’t have space aliens doing things tho children. It doesn’t need them.
I disagree. Rather strongly. The comic (and Willis) have made it very clear that Joyce has very strong hangups about sexuality that stem wholly and entirely from what she’s been taught by her religion. It may be hard to believe that religion and guilt can do this to a person, but believe me, it’s possible. (And common, in fundyland.) It’s not necessary to invent sexual abuse to explain it, and doing so seems like an attempt to shift the blame.
Joyce, NOOOO you must save it for marriage. NO PREMARITAL HANKY-PANKY, EVEN WITH YOURSELF. Lust is a sin, except when you desire your husband, then it’s okay. That’s not a contradiction, somehow.
No need to see if you are sexually compatible with your betrothed before marriage, because God will guide you to the right person. You will know when you’ve met the right one, God will tell you. You won’t be confused or unsure about His guidance, it’s always clear. (Probably won’t be Ethan, though, he’s a Sodomite. He will burn, unless he repents.) So don’t pursue the one you love, allow God to give them to you. It’s not up to you to decide, after all. You just have to discern God’s perfect will….
Believing that kind of shit in my early 20’s cost me dearly. So, so dearly.
I distinctly remember someone arguing once that masturbating would be fine so long as you only thought of your wife when doing it. He had no answer when a girl pointed out that she didn’t have a wife, and would therefore have difficulty holding to this.
The actual thinking behind all that is you should only be lusting after your spouse, just like you should only be having sex with your spouse. For the girl in said situation, the obvious answer would be she could think of her husband.
This raises an interesting point though. According to the 10 commandments, it’s only a sin to lust after another’s WIFE, so apparently it’s OK to lust after another’s husband (also; girlfriend, boyfriend, fiancee, etc.). In general it seems female sexuality is usually glossed over or just not mentioned in the Bible, I think also there is no condemnation of lesbianism only specifying men with other men. (And the few verses I remember with regards to THAT are a bit ambiguous as well, usually it just says something along “thou shall not lie with another man like thou liesth witheth a woman”, which is *true* to a certain extent, a man doesn’t have a vagina therefore it is not *possible* to have sex with a man like you have sex with a woman. This interpretation changes it from a prohibition to more of an observation. Of course, I haven’t read the original writings, they may not even have anything to do with sex at all, just like the changed “poisoner” to “witch” in the translation during the middle ages, just to get an excuse to burn troublesome people.
I hate to mention this after that nice comment, but time and again the Bible says that women are basically property, first of their fathers and then of their husbands. Old and New Testament. Obey those men and do not speak in public. It’s awful.
I and some others think there is evidence that Jesus was very much against this, but clearly that didn’t make any difference.
For a rabbi to teach children he has to be married. This was true in Jesus’ time as well. Jesus was a rabbi who taught children. What woman other than his mom is mentioned in all four gospels? Her name is Mary too.
You have to wonder what it is about sex that so many religious folk are so interested in particular. It’s like the legal system and drugs–something trips some wires there.
It’s about control. Sex is a “primal urge” – one of the few things that is guaranteed to happen to someone at some point, because otherwise the species will fail.
If you can control sex, whether in yourself or in a group of followers, you can control anything else about yourself or that group.
That said, the ILLUSION of control of sex is what sets up so many people for failure, guilt, duplicity, deception and all kinds of other fun ills of society.
Yup.
Another primal urge is for companionship and emotional support. We humans are social creatures – we crave that. And churches, cults, etc provide that… but always with a price.
Everything comes at a price, which doesn’t have to be larger than the reward. As a religious man, I have found great companionship and learning from my church–but I also know sex (when sane, sane, consensual, and responsible) has absolutely jack shit to do with religion. Paul really needed to be introduced to the “go forth and multiply passage.”
My parents are the same way. They’ve taught me that it really just ruins everything if you try to bring religion into things other than spiritual matters (e.g. politics, sex)
I’ll give an alternate, less illuminati-like attempt at explanation:
Way back in the day, there were dudes called monks. Lots of religions had them. They wanted to devote their lives to their various gods. They noticed that if you’re sexing it up all the time that distracts you from the godding. And/or their unpaid lifestyles made it hard to get chicks, and they went all sour grapes and said they didn’t want it anyway. Either way you have monks getting little to no sex.
Step two: people (or the monks themselves, as while later) notice that the godly dudes aren’t getting much kinky freaky sex, and decide that it’s because kinky freaky sex is evil. Or that *all* sex is evil, except well propagation of the species is all that. So they make religious rules to cut back on it, limit it, ban it, whichever.
Step 3: People continue to be horny, like always. But now they’re repressed horny. And just like that time your brother denied you drinking water for a week and kept holding it just out of reach taunting you with it (that happened to you too, right?) what you can’t have, you REALLY want. So, like obsession. And entire societal obsession.
Step 4: See the comic. Everybody’s totally obsessed with sex, and feels guilty about it! So ten lashes to themselves. And then you get the guy who starts to like the lashings and everything goes all pear shaped. Roll credits!
Wait, there are college cafeterias that STOP serving waffles? Mine just had a pair of electric waffle irons and a few pitchers of batter sitting on the counter by the cereal throughout their active hours.
This actually makes me really sad that she’s frustrated and one side of things tells her all these feelings are wrong and the other side tells her that everything she’s based herself on is crazy.
It is a little known fact that this is what most Canadians are like when the world isn’t looking. Yes, my pretties, think nothing of us. You’ll never see it coming. (Ruth is a bit of a problem for us, actually, as she’s giving the plan away, but then she’s lived in the States for a while and has doubtless been contaminated.)
It was all well and good, not exactly giddy but not bad, until that last panel. And then BAM! Right in the emotional solar plexus, and not with a spice weasel either. I actual feel physically ill (just a bit, a foul lump in my gut) out of sympathy for this fictional girl! DAMN YOU WILLIS!!
I relate, Joyce. I was never in the world of religion, but growing up I was so sure sex was BAD and WRONG that I felt guilty about anything I concocted. Granted, I never really felt the need to get all er…hairy handed about it, but that’s just me.
This is actually really sad. =\ Or at least I’m hoping it’s really sad and the showing of the headless naked dude isn’t hinting that Joyce is a victim of sexual abuse and that her whole purity thing is some basic coping mechanism to ‘erase’ and deny something that happened to her.
Now in the past there was this guy who was in my church who had “diploma” from a mill which made him a preacher, later it was discovered he had sexually abused his daughters. He did serious jail time time for it. who knows if Joyce’s parents had abused her..
Wouldn’t even have to be her parents that did it… Child predators have infiltrated pretty much any career lane that involved being close to and entrusted with children. It was just so well assumed that teachers wouldn’t hurt children and loved them like their own that back in the 80’s, kids wouldn’t be believed if they told anyone, and law enforcement would assume the kid was making things up… I think it took the emergence of some prominent cases, probably the wave of kidnappings (Jaycee Dugard being one), for people seriously consider that kids weren’t lying.
That is sad, poor Joyce. I think that most of the time she is just a dipshit and get really annoyed at her.
But the feelings under her weird ass behavior are just plain sad.
She shouldn’t have to feel like that.
Because of the shower-water, I can’t tell if Joyce is crying in the last panel. If she is though, that’s got to be one of the most heartbreaking things so far in this comic.
I’m pretty sure it’s crying, since it’s a different ‘width’ than the shower water running down her. I think she’s completely humiliated, and is probably afraid she’ll never ‘fit’ in the world. It is sad, and makes me feel sorry for her, and give ‘er a hug and say “You might never fit, but you’ll figure out how you and the world work together. Unless you go nuts and build a death ray on the moon.”
I kind of get the feeling it would have worked better if the man-torso was after panel 5 than before, so it would seem like Joyce was kind of looking at it then shutting her eyes not to.
And that does look like Ethan, but with Joe’s chin.
Well, I can’t actually reassure you it wasn’t there, but I can reassure you that you’re not the only one who missed it first time around. It was actually checking my Tumblr dash, and seeing it posted there that made me notice him. Changes the interpretation of the comic a bit, donnit?
It was on the page, but not in everyone’s perception. (‘You can be wrong about what you’re looking at, but not about what you see… ‘) Did you know that this was going to be some kind of cognitive-perceptual test?
I remember when I was a kid . . . I wasn’t even part of any really dedicated Christian church, but I was religious. I was playing Diablo II and realized in the middle . . . Oh god! These are creatures of Satan I am fighting! I feel dirty! I feel awful! This is fun, but it’s wrong! It’s wrong! It’s wrong! Even getting this close to acknowledging the devil is dangerous! Shame! shame!”
My parents were confused as to what I was doing when I uninstalled it, I don’t think either really understood why I did that and hit the Diablo II disk in a place I would never find it again.
That was shame brought on through mere proximity to Christianity in a moderate church by parents who never really mentioned the big G when I was out of Sunday school age. I can only imagine how Joyce feels right now.
I was the same way, except instead of Diablo II or other video games, it was anything to do with sex. I still have issues about it and it’s stupid and confusing.
wow, that’s, like, the same situation I’m in. I’ve had many, many existential crises about how I’m a terrible person and am going to hell for masturbating, even though my parents are, like, SUPER secular since we stopped going to church about 8 years ago.
it’s a terrible feeling and it makes you feel cold and empty inside. I really feel for what Joyce is going through.
This reminds me of the making of the video game Doom. The other guys at id Software asked Tom Hall, one of their creature designers, who was very devoutly Christian and had previously worked on their Commander Keen games, which were bright, colorful, cartoony platformers, if he had any issues with working on Doom.
His response? Something like “Nah, it’s just a game. Besides: the demons and zombies and hellish things are the BAD guys. You’re doing God’s work.”
Her reaction is only due to finding a large lump of hair in the shower, right, not because of painful emotional conflicts that make her question her own self worth and belief system, right? * Desperately wish for the comic to be light and fluffy*
I’m gonna take a break from the sad Joyce commenting and point out how awesomely tolerant and forgiving Sarah is. She went for a shower, came back, found her roommate playing with her vibrator, which she then stuck in her nose and instead of violence or yelling a forbidding to touch her things thye instead had a reasonable talk about what it was and how they feel about it.
I missed that little thought bubble between the first and second shower panels. I was like, “C’mon Willis, I know she is riddled with guilt, by why is she riddled with guilt right now?” Brain just skipped right over it. Then I looked back, “Oh, hello purple Jacob!”
I would like to point out that while many modern people think singular monogamy (finding one person to share your life with, and giving your virginity only to each other) is an out-dated model because sex IS fun, damn it (I know *I* enjoy it!), I heard one of them TV preachers back in the late 90’s from Buffalo, New York (forgot his name, though) say three things that stuck with me.
The first, I expected. The second, I did not. The third caused me to wonder if I was hallucinating.
“1. Singular monogamy (waiting until you’re married) completely eliminates STDs (or is it STI now?).
2. A REAL man should be able to give his wife multiple orgasms.
3. Read the Kama Sutra, and learn how to do sex right because sex IS fun. God knows that because he made us sexual creatures!”
He shook my perceptions of Christianity back then. Scientifically, he has a point with his first remark. Speaking from experience, I agree with his other two as well – to a point. I read the Kama Sutra when I was in high school, and I learned a lot from it! No, it’s not just old-world porn. It was a genuine learning experience.
Sadly, I can’t remember his name, and I’ve never found another church like his, so I stoppped going because everywhere else I went, it was always the same thing: sex isn’t for fun, it’s to make babies, and people who fuck for fun go to hell, the end.
…Wow, this strip brings up painful personal memories.
That hidden image between the last two panels completely surprised me. Boy do I know how Joyce feels. How many times did I get a lustful thought and have to “submit to God; resist the Devil, and he will flee from you”…? It’s not easy having to “overcome” sexual desires.
*sigh* but damn it all, I hurt even more inside reading all the discussions blaming Christianity for her current hangups about sex. For me, even being raised in a conservative Christian environment, I was taught that sex was good, fun, and wholesome. The difference however is that I was also taught that it was sacred, not to be taken too lightly, and protected by the boundaries of monogamy between a man and a woman.
I don’t know where I was going with that thought, but I still want to have it written anyway. It just…it hurts to hear the faith that taught me a lot of good things get mud thrown at it for the things (which in my opinion are) not really the fault of its teachings, but the fault of its followers’ ignorance. Real Christianity does not teach sex is evil (Not from what I’ve read.
Anyway, just…wow. Today’s strip speaks to me a lot more than I had expected it to. And it’s kind of painful.
My church also taught us that sex was good, fun, and wholesome. Like, specifically, those were the words they used to describe the way they taught us sex. I grew up believing that they had taught me that sex was good, fun, and wholesome. But you start mentioning that extra baggage about how it’s also supposed to be sacred and super important and only between two folks ever ever, and that’s where you suddenly find yourself in Joyce’s horrible shoes. It’s a contradictory message that screws you the hell up.
I suppose we could go with the earliest version, where Jesus was just a guy who got promoted to some kinda angel-level being upon his death and resurrection. (And by resurrection, I mean he became an everlasting intangible spirit that some folks think they saw.) Also, in service of a doctrine that’s otherwise indistinguishable from Judaism.
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Cold showers: Not just for dudes!
RIGHT?!
You are a wonderful person.
Is that Gravatar from Archer or Frisky Dingo?
Archer
At that resolution it’s kinda hard to tell.
No it’s not! YOU’RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!
Damn it Carol, get back to work.
YOU’RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR !!!
My name’s not Carol…It’s Cheryl!
These days isn’t it Shirleen?
Quit changing the timeline!
And don’t call her Shirleen!
Yeah ! I just changed it to Crystaaaal….
I thought it was heather?
Crippling repression. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Jeez, yeah. This’s a hard comic to read today!
She’s going to have to learn to accept her own sexuality SOMEHOW, but I doubt we’ll get an alien device to create an evil twin to set off the epiphany in this universe.
Wonder if she’ll turn full Anti-Joyce on Ethan. At least Ethan’s both resistant to feminine wiles and level-headed enough to potentially talk her through it before she makes a big mistake in a libido-driven frenzy.
Yeah.. That or she decides to masturbate instead XD
I’d like to see that storyline.
Put on a show, make one wrong move and everyone will know
And now “Let it Go” is about Joyce finally saying, “to hell with it”and just going to TOWN on herself.
After scrolling through the comments, I see that others have also reached this conclusion. Never mind.
Helping people work through their sexual issues or waffles. Easy choice.
I think that if Joyce wanted help and asked, Sarah would help. But Joyce has made it clear she doesn’t want to change, so Sarah isn’t going to waste her time trying. Joyce is an adult and can make her own decisions.
(The problem, of course, is that her parents are abusive assholes who did as much damage as they could before Joyce was an adult. If there was any non-horrible way to limit parent’s control over their children, I’d take it in a second.)
Non-Horrible: Mind control?
I’m pretty sure that would make you as evil as they are.
But you could make her cluck like a chicken, so the tradeoff is worth it.
She has to realize that something’s wrong with her mindset. And she has to want help. So, Mike level machinations may be needed.
Outlawing homeschooling?
As someone from a counry that has never permitted homescooling, the whole concept boggles my mind. I can’t fanthom a single reason for it to be permitted or why it would be a good thing at all.
Well, when it’s not being used to indoctrinate kids into Christian fundamentalist/evangelical beliefs, and done by intelligent, motivated parents, it can have pretty good results. Sadly, in a lot of the USA, the public school system is not all that good.
The operative words being “intelligent, motivated parents”. I’ve known three lots who home school their kids. One does it because her daughter was deprived of oxygen as a child and needs a slower pace now. The others do it because the Internet told them “society is evil, LOLZ” and they live by those profound words. I wouldn’t mind so much if either of their teenagers was actually able to read and write at a basic level, but they can’t. The parents plonk them in front of the television with a bunch of flash cards (pre school style) and expect that to replace the entire school experience as what they need to get on in the world. Granted, that’s two sets of people and not the entirety of homeschooling, but it does show a shocking lack of oversight for these people.
There is nothing wrong with homeschooling if it is done right. In my state, you are required to have a degree in education to homeschool your child. That is a good requirement. You should not be forced to send your child to a public school where many teachers use it as a chance to indoctrinate your child. There are tons of great teachers out there interested only in educating children but for every one of those there is another that just wants to force feed your kid their agenda. If you don’t want that to happen and have the education + drive to properly educate your child? Nothing wrong with that. I can’t see a reason why it WOULDN’T be permitted.
Bantha: At issue is whether or not the parents are actually motivated by a desire to provide a quality education, and whether or not they are capable of providing it. I used to date a girl who had a degree in education; she was also an unwavering believer in Young Earth Creationism. She was doing sub work when we dated; if she was at a public school, she stayed inside the lines, but would quite readily teach YEC as truth at private religious schools, and I have no doubt would home-school her kids the same way.
So frankly, in order for your system to work, you first have to tighten the degree requirements a fair bit. You also need a system in place to monitor the curriculum, and the child’s progress. Since the folks who most loudly support home-schooling are the same ones who believe that the Ebil Gum’mint is attempting to enslave us all to Satan, they tend to be a bit reluctant to comply with that sort of oversight.
“Indoctrinate”? What? I was a product of one of those public schools and I don’t remember being “indoctrinated” into anything. Well, other than communist homosexual atheism. But that’s just libs for you, am I right???
Do public schools still teach just communist homosexual atheism? That’s so last century. Today’s kids will have to fnord be well versed in black Jewish illuminati communist terrorist homosexual bankster transgender hipster copyleftist atheism to be successful. If your local public school doesn’t teach that subject, better send your children to a private school that does.
Best post. Much lulz.
When done properly educating at home can be far superior to school. Children get to be out and about in the real world, not shut in a classroom. It doesn’t suit all children, in the same as school doesn’t. Children who are bottom of the class at school can really flourish when freed from the arbitrary rules and procedures. The UK home education environment is far removed from the stereotype of Joyce.
It’s in the UN charter of human rights than parents should have the right to educate their child as they see fit. As long as we lack any universally recognized superior school of thought to educate all children in, that’s probably the best we can do.
My mom did it for a few years, and for a very good reason too. My older sister went into fourth grade with a sixth-grade reading level, and left with a sixth grade reading level. The teacher’s response to her already knowing the material, instead of getting a couple higher level books for her, was to use her as a teacher. She learnt almost nothing that whole year.
She based the whole curriculum off the Laura Ingalls Wilder books, it was fun, and when we went back to school, having switched to the next nearest school, we were both ahead of our peers.
I have heard of a family whose 10 yr old daughter developed a sensitivity to the fluoride that was put into the school’s water supply. The teacher’s solution was to put the girl’s desk into the corner, facing the wall. Even after the doctor had prescribed filtered, bottled water for the girl.
When the parents did a surprise audit, they found their daughter in the corner. The girl was removed from that school within 48 hours, and the parents started homeschooling her with good results.
On the other side of the homeschool coin, are my three nephews, two of whom have dyslexia, who didn’t start getting anything resembling a good education until they started community college. I think the middle one, who didn’t have dyslexia still resents his parents for that decision.
well, in the case of our oldest, the school system lacks the ability to properly approach his issues outside of wanting him medicated.
but with homeschooling, we don’t have to do that, and he’s thriving and is actually ahead of his age-group for learning.
mileage may vary of course.
I mean, I was homeschooled all the way until college. It affected how I developed in some good ways and some more neutral ways, but I think that I would have just developed different quirks if I went to public school. I’ve known a lot of thoroughly awesome, well-adjusted homeschoolers; like anything else, the extreme examples are what you tend to hear about. For the record, neither of my parents have a degree in education… We used a mail-order course until those ran out, then I joined a local homeschooling group and took some college classes. I’ve been very happy overall with being homeschooled, and from how I’ve seen others do, I’ve seen it work very well for others.
Donate $15,001 and up to the Reading Rainbow Kickstarter – LeVar Burton raises your child in your stead because he could honestly do a better job and your child would be happier.
About as non-horrible as it gets!
Correcion, helping JOYCE through her sexual issues or waffles, no contest.
Wow, this one is a bit depressing.
I know, right? I too want waffles…*sigh*
Well, you can smear melted butter and maple syrup all over waffles and then slurp them up, so I think it’s a pretty solid choice.
*insert “innocent” emoticon here*
Now I have a mental picture of Joyce covered in melted butter and maple syrup. I’m sure the fanboys would love that.
Man… after the pride is a sin one… the sads just keep coming. 🙁
Riding the Sad Bus to Sad City here.
Aww, Joyce’s first diddle.
I don’t think so. I think she had one bad thought and is now tearing herself up over it. She’s probably months, if not years, from acting on those thoughts.
Indeed. My thinking was that from her pose in the last panel she was hitting herself with the cold shower after having that thought.
From my point of view, in the second-to-last panel she used an “errant finger or two” and then instantly regretted it.
Jeph Jaques and Dave Willis need to get Joyce and Hanners to talk at length.
I am 50% sure that would make everything even worse and the other 50% sure it would make everything completely weird.
How would that even go?
J: “I can’t think about men because of religion.”
H: “I don’t WANT to think about men because of neuroses.”
J: “Well, it’s been nice talking to you.”
H: “You, too. Now, what’ll you have? The specials are BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS and BUTTS.”
Don’t forget, Joyce is a die-hard, science-disbelieving fundie while Hanners’s dad is a scientist in a space station and her mom is literally an evil corporate overlord, complete with shark tank.
Butts, butts, butts, butts
Butts, butts, butts, butts
LOVELY BUUUUUUUUUUTTS!
WONDERFUL BUUUUUUTTS!
Hanners thinks about women all the time. She even looks at porn
Men dammit. She thinks about men all the time. She just doesn’t want to touch them.
I’d ship that. Of course, they’d only go so far as to shake hands, and Hanners would insist on using gloves followed by copious amounts of hand sanitizer.
Or on length…
Given how repressive and uncomfortable experience this is for Joyce, I don’t think I want to see the first diddle. 🙁
friend of mine was like that. didn’t wank till he was like 17, then wound up getting curious then did it.
he described it as furiously shameful and explosive.
I am pretty sure she is crying in that last panel after merely THINKING about a naked man.
See, that’s what I don’t like about this interpretation of God. He gives everyone fun buttons that they can’t put away, then says, “DON’T TOUCH”
Who does that, other than assholes??
Yeah, exactly! It always confuses me when I hear religious people speak bad of sexuality, as it seems to me to be an insult to their own God, implying that he did a very poor job creating us.
Whenever I had any doubt if God had any problems with me touching my own body, I just looked down and saw that my hands, hanging down, line up perfectly with my equipment. Coincidense? I think not!
Yes, it is disturbing at times, but you can deal with it. It’s part of becoming an adult.
If I know anything about being an adult, it’s the worst experience in the world.
Sadly, no matter how old you get, there are always going to be worse experiences.
Spilling maple syrup on yourself and being swarmed by bees for example.
No, I think that one is just you….
I could mention something about trucks, but I won’t any more than I already have.
That’s life in general Bro it doesn’t pull punches, the minute you step out the womb it comes at you at all sides like Mike tyson in the third round.
And then it bites your ear off?
That was how it happened to me, at least. Stepped out of the womb, boxers on all sides.
Did you get rabies? :O
Life’s gonna suck when you grow up, and then you’re gonna die.
(Might as well diddle)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJ8j_UrTTM
(Pony vid for added irony.)
She crying?
I don’t think it is, looks like it’s just shower water.
I can sort of empathize. It’s never brought me to tears but when you grow up in a religious family starting to lose that “innocence” is tough.
I actually thought she was sweating, as if she was making a physical effort to repress her urges.
Impure thoughts, people in heaven see it when she dies or something. Guilt for doing what you think is wrong or something
Just let it go, Joyce.
K, everyone. Spectre’s said it, now NOBODY ELSE HAS TO.
I don’t care what you’re going to say!
la den gå
libérée délivrée
láta það fara
lad det gå
Lassen gehen!
It’s actually ‘Lass es gehen’ if literally translated, but I’m guessing it’s more ‘Lass los’ in the German, which is the proper expression. But I haven’t actually seen Frozen in German, I’m just guessing this from being a German person lol.
Actually, it’s Yiddish and I was quoting Mel Brooks from “Blazing Saddles”.
LEGO.
Do you wanna build a snowman?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
MUST … RESIST … URGE … TO QUOTE FROZEN
it’s funny how some distance
makes everything seem small
Funny thing is, I watched Frozen for the first time YESTERDAY. Nice timing.
It’s not exactly a rare occurrence around here.
I finished watching it like two hours ago. It’s kind of bizarre.
Don’t let them in, don’t let them see.
Be the good girl you always have to be.
Don’t let them know…
Shit now they know.
Joyce is a thoughtcriminal. Doubleplusungood.
“Do me a favor and grab my butt.”
“Oh, look at that, I’ve been impaled.”
“So this is heat. I love it.”
Goddamit, stop quoting Olaf.
The dude is seriously creeping me out with all his “I’m diying horribly, but no big deal” quotes.
Olaf was incredibly creepy. I could not understand why everyone thinks that character was funny.
Well, there’s something to be said for dark humor.
I read Salmo’s comment without realizing she was quoting Olaf for a minute…holy cow those quotes sound different out of context. XD
Never understood the obsession with that movie or that song….well any song from Frozen. The movie was “So So” at best and the songs are just plain irritating. Eh, to each their own.
I think a huge amount of the appeal is just how different it is from other children’s movies.
*MINOR SPOILERS!*
Not ONLY does the main character not find her entire fulfillment in a romantic relationship, but it highlights the other types of love that can be part of a fulfilled life, such as sibling and friendly love. The end is kind of a profound statement as well. In most movies, an “act of love” is selfishly supposed to be acted on the main character, by someone who has little else to lose. In Frozen, the main character realizes that SHE can act with love and gives everything to do so. It’s a pretty strong departure from the norm, and a refreshing one I think for many people.
Then again, on the other hand there’s just the Anna/Elsa shippers…
Anna/Elsa for life! That sisterly love….
Ew.
Ew ew EW.
Perfect avatars, you two. I imagine Walky shipping Elsa/Anna, then thinking about his own sister, and going all “EWWWW, what’s wrong with me?”
Took me a minute to notice Panel 4.5
Didn’t notice until you pointed it out
Same here. O_o
What. I swear that wasn’t there on my first read-through
Holy shit
Same here
Yeah, I didn’t notice that at first. Apparently I’m totally desensitized to naked man-torso.
Wow, I didn’t notice it either. Odd!
I kinda passed it at first and went back weird.
It was loading slow, so i caught it due to over-examination of like the top quarter of teh strip.
When it loads slowly, you’re supposed to look away until it’s fully loaded! Otherwise, it’s like peeking ahead in a book you’re reading.
I’m not sure whether to thank you or curse you for pointing that image out.
On the one hand it gives even more context to this strip. On the other hand now I feel like I need to go back over every single Willis strip ever to look for anything else I may have missed.
Moment when I joined the “Damn you Willis!” brigade achieved. 😉
I didn’t either, and I was confused over what was going on in the last two panels. Then I saw Archer and it clicked.
took me over a year o.O
aww
Change the topic: think about Sarah in the shower instead. You can do it!
Mmm…
or Sarah’s nana
You’re the devil.
Oh no, the jig is up!
So you want us to be Joyce’s grandma?
Joyce is her own grandma, and all you zombies should know that.
Thank you for this RAH reference.
Conceal don’t feel don’t let them KNOOOOOOOOOOW
Well, now they knoooooooooow.
Knowing is half the battle!
G I JOOOOOOOOE!
The other half is broken down into Blue Lasers and Red Lasers, respectively.
And then Joyce gets frozen to the shower.
Man does Joyce with wet hair look substantially different. Mostly due to the straightening effect as opposed to the color change.
Well, I guess psychosexual issues are one way to take your mind off that hairball in the drain!
And strangely, now I’ve got “Sex Hair” stuck in my head. Thanks for that.
There are better ways to help someone through their sexual repression issues than, “I have half a mind to force you to do something sexual!”
I feel like Sarah was joking anyway.
It is not like Sarah is not terrible good with people.
See the thing is there’s nothing forceful about it apart from locking her in there. If she had no sexual urges she wouldn’t have an issue being in there with said hairbrush and magazine. It wouldn’t hold up in court if say, you were locked in a room with a bunch of pot, papers and a lighter, and your defense was “They FORCED me to smoke those drugs!”
“There’s nothing forcefula botu it apart from…” is a really bad way to say things, man.
See, I thought Sarah was being pretty considerate by toning her comment down pg-13 level with a hairbrush and swimsuit catalog, rather than a porn mag and a vibe. At least she’s not just shocking Joyce for the sake of shocking.
In retrospect I was wondering about the hairbrush, but then imgur.com/H9sxziV
Aww… Poor Joyce!
Joyce should have gonne for Waffles too… XD
I just relized something Amber and Joyce are kind of the same, their both reaching a cross road where I think something in their mind is about to just Break.
And here we have another example of why DoA comments need an upvote button, to prevent comments like this one. 😉
Prevent? You meant promote right?
Dude that’s like…poetic.
Dude that’s like… a Linkin Park song.
a poetic Lincoln Park song!
I am filled with horrible adolescent angst!
suddenly Linkin Park songs make sense to me!
My Mind…. you just blew it.
What I’m seeing is a parallel between Joyce and Sal, really.
Both bear a scar on the right hand originating from a traumatic mistake.
…Joyce would probably decide this makes her super cool, rather than stop contemplate the commonalities that bind us together as human beings…
See now that’s what I mean by being blindsided by something we all saw coming.
Also I love how Joyce is framed in the same part of every frame in this strip; I know it’s a shallow read of it but I enjoy how the positioning alone shows how stuck she feels.
Also something something Sarah and phallic shower head positioned in same side of strip something something
I get what you’re saying and I’m also similarly too lazy to be articulate about it.
I meant to convey the first part! Second part is bonus, I guess.
Phallic shower head? *scrolls back up to check*
*returns*
I… don’t think that’s entirely healthy.
Practice makes perfect Joyce so don’t give up
Uh oh. That reaction to thoughts about naked guys isn’t a good sign.
It’s so sad! I have never felt so sad for Joyce 🙁 But remember, in the original Walkyverse she erased her memory rather than know what sex was.
We could see an emergence of Evil Joyce, soon…
And then Joyce’s sexual urges will be manifested as psychic poweres and it’ll be like Akira.
Till this day what happens to that girl at the end of the movie disturbs me. That and the old babies.
Yeah man…It was pretty messed up! Everything kinda ended on a somewhat sour not, but I guess that’s it’s charm.
If you two get the chance go read the manga of Akira, the film didn’t do nearly any of that story justice.
I’ve read the first book. I’m still gonna say the film did the best it could within the time constraints and is still a dynamite movie.
I like that movie just fine but I haven’t seen it since high school. It’s apparently on Hulu, so I might give it a rewatch. Also would VERY much like to read the manga. I think I’d like it better now than I did back then.
The manga is no doubt Even better than the movie (as most comic book turned movie adaptations tend to be).
To mangafox!
=(
I would “to Mangafox!” but last time I did, they took down something I was reading because it ended up getting licensed as I was in the middle of book #9/13…
NEVER AGAIN, SO MUCH LETDOWN
[I mean, in theory, getting licensed is great, because the creator gets moneys, but it’ll take like TWENTY YEARS to catch up to where I was! ARGH]
Otomo deliberately had the story go in a different direction in the movie.
@ newllend Aren’t old babies basically, well, grown-ups?
Clearly spoken by one who has not seen or read Akira. Do so, and you will understand that the answer to your question is, disturbingly, no.
Well that naked torso is not Harry Styles, that’s for sure lol. For that it’s missing approximately 700 really ugly tattoos and has too much hair.
Might be Joe? If it isn’t non-specific Male Torso?
Ethan.
I read it as non-specific male torso, especially because it’s faceless. It does kinda imply that Joe and Ethan are her type, though.
Possibility of it being Ethan.
Isn’t it the same torso she pictured when she hugged Ethan that one time?
It is non-specific male torso that happens to have Ethan’s face when she pictures it…
Given context, most likely it’s Taylor Lautner =p
That’s a good point. Probably the bare chest she’s seen the most.
Not in the shower Joyce, it’s your natural enemy!
IS she crying in the last panel? Over doing something or being too shamed to even try?
Both her hands are on her arms, holding herself. Yes she is crying.
IMO, she holds her shoulders to keep her hands from going… down there.
I’d say she is. Joyce is in an unfortunate position – she’d prefer to have no sexual urges until the day she is married, and then have sex with God’s (and her nana’s) blessing and acceptance. Her body has other ideas. Its hints and suggestions are starting to become demands.
She has a lot in common with Ethan – they both have bodies that are seriously into men. And both wish they weren’t.
I think she’ll choose to deal with them in the Christian way – that suffering builds character. It’s not wrong, up to a certain point, but anything taken too far becomes immoral.
Wow, someone here actually has the right idea. I agree completely.
DARKNESS.
SEX URGES.
MORE DARKNESS.
Joyce and The Dark Sex Urges
Fifty Shades of Dexter and Monkey Master
LEGO Joyce is the best Joyce!
Oh man, a LEGO version of Joyce would be adorable. Actually, come to think of it, it’s been more than 15 years since Roomies! started, maybe someone’s already made one.
DARKNESS
OVERBEARING PARENTS
SUPER FAITHFUL
KINDA MAKES IT BETTER
?
There is a connection in the brain between perceptions of emotional warmth and cold and the physical perceptions of warmth and cold. When people are lonely they tend to also feel cooler and can be comforted by hot showers.
Now I want waffles.
Took me a second to see the naked guy between panels.
Me too. I mean, I got through about half the comments (well, skipping the segues, tho’…) before I went back, saw that and was all “Whuuuuuuu?”
Poor Joyce. Sarah is a pretty good influence on the gal.
daaaammiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
I knew all those vibrator jokes were setting us up for something like this
this part with Joyce has been a rollercoaster
Did everyone here forget that so far her only experience with sex is being drugged and nearly raped? Don’t you think its also possible THATS why sexual thoughts upset her not just because her family is religious? Though that does probably compound things
It’s possible they’re remembering that before that happened, she hired a dude to beat her date if either of them had lustful thoughts.
Was Mike instructed to hit Joe if Joyce had a sexual thought about Joe (or even Mike)?? That’s quite an agreement Joe went with there (to be fair, it was some dress too).
No, but Mike doesn’t really need a contract to hit people. He doesn’t even really need excuses, he just prefers them, to keep from being arrested.
There’s no evidence that Joyce is thinking about that right now. (Plus she barely remembers it, at least while awake.) There is LOTS of evidence that she’s is wracked with guilt over her sexual thoughts, and that it’s 100% due to her religion. Starting with the fact that she has outright said so.
…what part of “Joyce has a hideously damaged view of sexuality that is based on Willis’s personal religious upbringing” hasn’t been made clear yet?
How would she be able to see the magazine if the room is dark?
She can sense it’s presence.
She has night vision like an owl, I mean just look at those eyes
She reads by the light of her triangular smile.
The hairbrush was sterilized by heating it up to strong glow.
She’s got to read fast.
Ha ha reminds me of the “good times” when I heard of guys in church “holding each other accountable” to break the “addiction” of “sinful” masturbation. Basically, you’d tell somebody you could trust when you slipped up and “gave in” to your addiction under the premise that you’d over time stop doing it.
So basically, being forced to share intimate sexual details with a non-doctor to shame you into not doing something totally natural that feels great. Yay church! Shockingly, I am no longer a Christian.
And how often do you think this led to the guy being told thinking “Hey, cool, now if I jerk off tonight I’m no worse than he is. An excuse!”?
The guys I knew in school told each other that kind of thing anyway. Got a good laugh about it.
Is that torso Joe?
Also, If I remember correctly doesn’t Joyce genuinely not know what penises look like?
TORSO JOE! TORSO JOE IS THERE!
(if you press his knob, he hugs!)
+1 to Wack’d!
Also: didn’t notice this until you pointed out.
Also also: Pretty sure, based on where it was seen earlier, that it’s Ethan. Good ol’ hairy-chested Ethan.
Even if she doesn’t, Googling “strap-on” probably gave her a pretty good estimate.
Joyce has been going through a rather large range of emotions lately……rough.
You know, I think that you guys are all overlooking something.
Aside from the fact that Joyce has a tradition christian upbringing, she was also almost taken advantage of a few months ago (comic time) which left scars on her. My personal guess is that, while the thought of sex flits across her mind, she also gets reminded of what happened to her, which stops her from attempting to engage in self pleasure.
That would make sense for someone else, but we haven’t seen anything to even slightly indicate that. Her hangups appear to be purely based around her religion, and since she made it clear she’s never done it,, the issue clearly started before the Bastard entered her life. If the torso looked like Bastard, maybe, but it’s just a generic dude.
Also, in context it’s clear that her current episode of shame is brought on by her own sexthoughts, and I don’t see that being something that reminds her of Bastard. On that night, she wasn’t having sexthoughts, she was having “playing board games and being Queen of the Drunks” thoughts.
Bastard probably factors into her dating someone who doesn’t want to have sex with her, granted. And there’ve been cues to that. But I feel like if this strip was meant to suggest the attempted-rape connection, then yes, the torso would look like him. (I’m not the only one who thinks it kind of looks like Joe, am I?)
It’s ETHAN, from an earlier strip where Joyce had lustful thoughts about him. Same color tinting and everything.
Here’s the strip where she first thinks of Ethan that way:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/belong-here/
Good spot. Does this mean that she’ll break up with her fake college boyfriend and try to avoid Ethan … who she already had that dream about.
Actually, this is getting WAY messed up for Ethan as well as Joyce. Ethan accepted being Joyce’s fake boyfriend because she made an excellent beard for him, since she wanted no hanky-panky–or so it seemed. And she chose him for a boyfriend because she sensed his lack of sexual interest in her (without understanding it). BUT his body is attracting HER “sinful” urges. Look at the strip Cholma linked and Joyce’s dream about Ethan along with today’s strip. That all is NOT what Ethan bargained for. You’d almost think he doesn’t understand repressed girls from extreme Christian sects.
So I think the deal here is that this isn’t Shortpacked Ethan (or for that matter It’s Walky Joyce) we’re looking at here, it’s the 18 year old version. When my brother, who is pretty damn gay, was that age, he too had a girlfriend. Unlike Ethan, he hadn’t acknowledged his homosexuality but I can certainly see where, even if you *are* in that position, you’re still figuring out what’s immutable about yourself and what isn’t. If he was a real guy I knew, I’d be prepared to give him a break about this and promise only to kick his ass if he got married or something.
Well, there’s evidence that she wasn’t completely unscathed by the incident, but she seems to have recovered from that. Of course, we can’t say for sure without access to the inner workings of her mind, but I wouldn’t blame that for what’s going on here.
But wait if the room is dark then she can’t see the guys…
That’s just bad masturbating; you should always be able to visualize the target.
Ok, after I figured out what happened (first I thought she just took Sarah’s advice) this one broke my heart.
Yup. That is not a “happy fantasy”. If she was just having lustful thoughts, I have a feeling she would use a certain “caramel flavored” mental image. This comes off as a much darker, more painful, memory. This universe doesn’t have space aliens doing things tho children. It doesn’t need them.
The space aliens were a metaphor!
I disagree. Rather strongly. The comic (and Willis) have made it very clear that Joyce has very strong hangups about sexuality that stem wholly and entirely from what she’s been taught by her religion. It may be hard to believe that religion and guilt can do this to a person, but believe me, it’s possible. (And common, in fundyland.) It’s not necessary to invent sexual abuse to explain it, and doing so seems like an attempt to shift the blame.
What they don’t show you is that a while ago the water heater broke and she is noticing it in Panel 5. The water is icy cold.
Joyce, NOOOO you must save it for marriage. NO PREMARITAL HANKY-PANKY, EVEN WITH YOURSELF. Lust is a sin, except when you desire your husband, then it’s okay. That’s not a contradiction, somehow.
No need to see if you are sexually compatible with your betrothed before marriage, because God will guide you to the right person. You will know when you’ve met the right one, God will tell you. You won’t be confused or unsure about His guidance, it’s always clear. (Probably won’t be Ethan, though, he’s a Sodomite. He will burn, unless he repents.) So don’t pursue the one you love, allow God to give them to you. It’s not up to you to decide, after all. You just have to discern God’s perfect will….
Believing that kind of shit in my early 20’s cost me dearly. So, so dearly.
I distinctly remember someone arguing once that masturbating would be fine so long as you only thought of your wife when doing it. He had no answer when a girl pointed out that she didn’t have a wife, and would therefore have difficulty holding to this.
The actual thinking behind all that is you should only be lusting after your spouse, just like you should only be having sex with your spouse. For the girl in said situation, the obvious answer would be she could think of her husband.
This raises an interesting point though. According to the 10 commandments, it’s only a sin to lust after another’s WIFE, so apparently it’s OK to lust after another’s husband (also; girlfriend, boyfriend, fiancee, etc.). In general it seems female sexuality is usually glossed over or just not mentioned in the Bible, I think also there is no condemnation of lesbianism only specifying men with other men. (And the few verses I remember with regards to THAT are a bit ambiguous as well, usually it just says something along “thou shall not lie with another man like thou liesth witheth a woman”, which is *true* to a certain extent, a man doesn’t have a vagina therefore it is not *possible* to have sex with a man like you have sex with a woman. This interpretation changes it from a prohibition to more of an observation. Of course, I haven’t read the original writings, they may not even have anything to do with sex at all, just like the changed “poisoner” to “witch” in the translation during the middle ages, just to get an excuse to burn troublesome people.
I hate to mention this after that nice comment, but time and again the Bible says that women are basically property, first of their fathers and then of their husbands. Old and New Testament. Obey those men and do not speak in public. It’s awful.
I and some others think there is evidence that Jesus was very much against this, but clearly that didn’t make any difference.
The problem is the Bible was crowdsourced
https://twitter.com/Jesus_M_Christ/status/408273772849135616
For a rabbi to teach children he has to be married. This was true in Jesus’ time as well. Jesus was a rabbi who taught children. What woman other than his mom is mentioned in all four gospels? Her name is Mary too.
You have to wonder what it is about sex that so many religious folk are so interested in particular. It’s like the legal system and drugs–something trips some wires there.
It’s about control. Sex is a “primal urge” – one of the few things that is guaranteed to happen to someone at some point, because otherwise the species will fail.
If you can control sex, whether in yourself or in a group of followers, you can control anything else about yourself or that group.
That said, the ILLUSION of control of sex is what sets up so many people for failure, guilt, duplicity, deception and all kinds of other fun ills of society.
Yup.
Another primal urge is for companionship and emotional support. We humans are social creatures – we crave that. And churches, cults, etc provide that… but always with a price.
Everything comes at a price, which doesn’t have to be larger than the reward. As a religious man, I have found great companionship and learning from my church–but I also know sex (when sane, sane, consensual, and responsible) has absolutely jack shit to do with religion. Paul really needed to be introduced to the “go forth and multiply passage.”
My parents are the same way. They’ve taught me that it really just ruins everything if you try to bring religion into things other than spiritual matters (e.g. politics, sex)
I’ll give an alternate, less illuminati-like attempt at explanation:
Way back in the day, there were dudes called monks. Lots of religions had them. They wanted to devote their lives to their various gods. They noticed that if you’re sexing it up all the time that distracts you from the godding. And/or their unpaid lifestyles made it hard to get chicks, and they went all sour grapes and said they didn’t want it anyway. Either way you have monks getting little to no sex.
Step two: people (or the monks themselves, as while later) notice that the godly dudes aren’t getting much kinky freaky sex, and decide that it’s because kinky freaky sex is evil. Or that *all* sex is evil, except well propagation of the species is all that. So they make religious rules to cut back on it, limit it, ban it, whichever.
Step 3: People continue to be horny, like always. But now they’re repressed horny. And just like that time your brother denied you drinking water for a week and kept holding it just out of reach taunting you with it (that happened to you too, right?) what you can’t have, you REALLY want. So, like obsession. And entire societal obsession.
Step 4: See the comic. Everybody’s totally obsessed with sex, and feels guilty about it! So ten lashes to themselves. And then you get the guy who starts to like the lashings and everything goes all pear shaped. Roll credits!
So yeah. That’s my theory.
So you’re saying that people become subs in BDSM through sexual repression? Neat.
But yeah, you have a really good point.
Some eastern religions like Hinduism don’t hold the same views.
Your brother is Superman?
She’s crying? I genuinely feel really bad for her right now.
Aw, Joyce. 🙁 *Hugs*
I know it’s likely just Square Jawed Dude #4, but the naked guy looks an awful lot like Joe…
I teared up a little. Joyce 🙁 sweetheart 🙁 it’ll be okay.
“no it won’t, i’m sinful and broken and wrong…”
-_-;
Wait, there are college cafeterias that STOP serving waffles? Mine just had a pair of electric waffle irons and a few pitchers of batter sitting on the counter by the cereal throughout their active hours.
They probably make them themselves. Professionally-made waffles are naturally superior to self-made waffles.
Unless you’re a professional waffler, like myself…
This actually makes me really sad that she’s frustrated and one side of things tells her all these feelings are wrong and the other side tells her that everything she’s based herself on is crazy.
MY FEELS, I CAN’T
DOA most of this week–LOL LOL LOL
DOA today: *sob*
It is a little known fact that this is what most Canadians are like when the world isn’t looking. Yes, my pretties, think nothing of us. You’ll never see it coming. (Ruth is a bit of a problem for us, actually, as she’s giving the plan away, but then she’s lived in the States for a while and has doubtless been contaminated.)
We really only get that way over olympic hockey
OR SO YOU’D LIKE US TO THINK!!!
Classic Willis. Make you laugh at the crazy people, then drop the hammer with the real, serious consequences of the crazy.
All right, I give in. You win. I’ll say it.
DAMN YOU WILLIS
DAMN YOU WILLIS
THE FEELS, I CAN’T
>_<
;_;
I never thought about it before, but those two avatars really complement each other perfectly.
damn. you. willis.
It was all well and good, not exactly giddy but not bad, until that last panel. And then BAM! Right in the emotional solar plexus, and not with a spice weasel either. I actual feel physically ill (just a bit, a foul lump in my gut) out of sympathy for this fictional girl! DAMN YOU WILLIS!!
and WEEP
Damn you, Willis! Right in the feels!
And lo! This day, men and women of all ages held their hands to the sky in the shapes of fists and cried in unison “DAMN YOU WILLIS!”
This seems to happen at least once a week.
LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
oh… Joyce, Hunny, no…. No shame in that (despite what you’ve been told for 18-ish years)…
I laughed about halfway through the strip before the crying. Am i a horrible person
I just noticed the naked guy between panels 4 and 5. Is that what Joyce is thinking about?
I prefer to think of the image representing a… CRAVING.
I relate, Joyce. I was never in the world of religion, but growing up I was so sure sex was BAD and WRONG that I felt guilty about anything I concocted. Granted, I never really felt the need to get all er…hairy handed about it, but that’s just me.
This is actually really sad. =\ Or at least I’m hoping it’s really sad and the showing of the headless naked dude isn’t hinting that Joyce is a victim of sexual abuse and that her whole purity thing is some basic coping mechanism to ‘erase’ and deny something that happened to her.
Now in the past there was this guy who was in my church who had “diploma” from a mill which made him a preacher, later it was discovered he had sexually abused his daughters. He did serious jail time time for it. who knows if Joyce’s parents had abused her..
Wouldn’t even have to be her parents that did it… Child predators have infiltrated pretty much any career lane that involved being close to and entrusted with children. It was just so well assumed that teachers wouldn’t hurt children and loved them like their own that back in the 80’s, kids wouldn’t be believed if they told anyone, and law enforcement would assume the kid was making things up… I think it took the emergence of some prominent cases, probably the wave of kidnappings (Jaycee Dugard being one), for people seriously consider that kids weren’t lying.
But if the room is dark, how will she read the articles in the magazine, Sarah? How will she learn how to blast her delts?
HOW, I ASK YOU!??
As my slow-as-heck phone finally loaded today’s strip, Blasphemous Rumors started playing. I do not know how to feel about that.
The next big reveal is going to be that the hairy midsection in panel 4.5 is, in fact, Dina.
That is sad, poor Joyce. I think that most of the time she is just a dipshit and get really annoyed at her.
But the feelings under her weird ass behavior are just plain sad.
She shouldn’t have to feel like that.
Because of the shower-water, I can’t tell if Joyce is crying in the last panel. If she is though, that’s got to be one of the most heartbreaking things so far in this comic.
I’m pretty sure it’s crying, since it’s a different ‘width’ than the shower water running down her. I think she’s completely humiliated, and is probably afraid she’ll never ‘fit’ in the world. It is sad, and makes me feel sorry for her, and give ‘er a hug and say “You might never fit, but you’ll figure out how you and the world work together. Unless you go nuts and build a death ray on the moon.”
Is it just me, or does anyone else think some bad-touch went on? Joyce looks /broken/ not shamed from lust.
Nope. This just SCREAMS prude guilt. Not to mention that’s what she herself has said it is.
She said it, ya, that doesn’t make it true. The pink dude looks old.
I believe it’s because she pressed a device that was recently inside Sarah’s cooter up her nose.
I kind of get the feeling it would have worked better if the man-torso was after panel 5 than before, so it would seem like Joyce was kind of looking at it then shutting her eyes not to.
And that does look like Ethan, but with Joe’s chin.
Am I going insane, or was that dude torso between panels totally not there when this comic was first uploaded? Reassure me, Willis.
You’re going insane. It was there when I first checked less than four minutes after update.
Well, I can’t actually reassure you it wasn’t there, but I can reassure you that you’re not the only one who missed it first time around. It was actually checking my Tumblr dash, and seeing it posted there that made me notice him. Changes the interpretation of the comic a bit, donnit?
It was always there.
It’s been there from the first strip. It’s been in every strip Joyce has been in. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE.
Neo from MATRIX: “There is no Torso”
It was on the page, but not in everyone’s perception. (‘You can be wrong about what you’re looking at, but not about what you see… ‘) Did you know that this was going to be some kind of cognitive-perceptual test?
“If you noticed the naked dude torso before the naked showering chick, we have news for you…”
…Suddenly all those image macros seem kinda douchebaggy instead of amusing. Hmm.
If it makes you feel better, I completely missed my first cameo the first time through =p
You are Janeane Garofalo?!?! \(^o^)/
The shame. THE SHAME!
Aww, Joyce… 🙁 C’mere… Let me teach you what you need to know…
If Ethan’s chest is actually hairless and not muscular, Joyce’s mind will be blown.
have you SEEN Ethan? He’s, like, in almost perfect condition.
I don’t think he has very much chest hair, though.
Oh, Willis, you always know how to brighten up my day.
♪♪♫ “I’m gonna wash that man right out of my hair!” ♫♪♫
It didn’t work for Nellie Forbush, either.
This strip makes me want to smack Joyce’s parents so bad 🙁
I guess we know what the next NSFW project is gonna be! Joyce, a men’s fitness magazine, a dark room, and a clean hairbrush.
A-bow-chick-WAH-wowww!
That looks like Ethan’s chin. Tsk Tsk, Joyce
Looks more like Joe’s if you ask me. Ethan’s is pointier.
Poor Joyce. Poor Willis, at least at the time 🙁
She is just such a sad broken person. It’s one thing to be religious, but that is just so wrong.
I remember when I was a kid . . . I wasn’t even part of any really dedicated Christian church, but I was religious. I was playing Diablo II and realized in the middle . . . Oh god! These are creatures of Satan I am fighting! I feel dirty! I feel awful! This is fun, but it’s wrong! It’s wrong! It’s wrong! Even getting this close to acknowledging the devil is dangerous! Shame! shame!”
My parents were confused as to what I was doing when I uninstalled it, I don’t think either really understood why I did that and hit the Diablo II disk in a place I would never find it again.
That was shame brought on through mere proximity to Christianity in a moderate church by parents who never really mentioned the big G when I was out of Sunday school age. I can only imagine how Joyce feels right now.
Why would you be ashamed about fighting AGAINST the forces of darkness???
I was the same way, except instead of Diablo II or other video games, it was anything to do with sex. I still have issues about it and it’s stupid and confusing.
wow, that’s, like, the same situation I’m in. I’ve had many, many existential crises about how I’m a terrible person and am going to hell for masturbating, even though my parents are, like, SUPER secular since we stopped going to church about 8 years ago.
it’s a terrible feeling and it makes you feel cold and empty inside. I really feel for what Joyce is going through.
This reminds me of the making of the video game Doom. The other guys at id Software asked Tom Hall, one of their creature designers, who was very devoutly Christian and had previously worked on their Commander Keen games, which were bright, colorful, cartoony platformers, if he had any issues with working on Doom.
His response? Something like “Nah, it’s just a game. Besides: the demons and zombies and hellish things are the BAD guys. You’re doing God’s work.”
It seems not even Willis is safe from Frozen.
Clearly you haven’t been reading Hijinks Ensue. Willis is a fan.
Her reaction is only due to finding a large lump of hair in the shower, right, not because of painful emotional conflicts that make her question her own self worth and belief system, right? * Desperately wish for the comic to be light and fluffy*
T____T
And so begins the slow, torturous descent into SIN!!!
I love how Sarah has the best priorities.
1. Waffles.
2. Surplus.
Actually, Joyce is fine with her sexy thoughts. She’s just regretting her decision to choose showering over waffles.
Unfortunately for Joyce, the eyebrow beasts don’t seem to be reacting.
Also, she was practcally raped not that long ago (comic time) so there’s that.
My first thought on reading the first panel was: “wait, won’t the bristles hurt?”.
My brain does strange things sometimes.
I’m gonna take a break from the sad Joyce commenting and point out how awesomely tolerant and forgiving Sarah is. She went for a shower, came back, found her roommate playing with her vibrator, which she then stuck in her nose and instead of violence or yelling a forbidding to touch her things thye instead had a reasonable talk about what it was and how they feel about it.
Sarah for best roommate!
Aye!
Mike for best roommate!
And then . . . waffles!
hear hear! Sarah is the best.
I missed that little thought bubble between the first and second shower panels. I was like, “C’mon Willis, I know she is riddled with guilt, by why is she riddled with guilt right now?” Brain just skipped right over it. Then I looked back, “Oh, hello purple Jacob!”
I must say that Joyce’s parents have done a bang up job of raising their daughter…. really first rate
I hereby order you to draw Joyce’s hair like this for the rest of forever.
Seconded
Ouch, how can it be pleasant to stimulate yourself with a hairbrush?
…
…
Turn it around.
http://imgur.com/H9sxziV
I would like to point out that while many modern people think singular monogamy (finding one person to share your life with, and giving your virginity only to each other) is an out-dated model because sex IS fun, damn it (I know *I* enjoy it!), I heard one of them TV preachers back in the late 90’s from Buffalo, New York (forgot his name, though) say three things that stuck with me.
The first, I expected. The second, I did not. The third caused me to wonder if I was hallucinating.
“1. Singular monogamy (waiting until you’re married) completely eliminates STDs (or is it STI now?).
2. A REAL man should be able to give his wife multiple orgasms.
3. Read the Kama Sutra, and learn how to do sex right because sex IS fun. God knows that because he made us sexual creatures!”
He shook my perceptions of Christianity back then. Scientifically, he has a point with his first remark. Speaking from experience, I agree with his other two as well – to a point. I read the Kama Sutra when I was in high school, and I learned a lot from it! No, it’s not just old-world porn. It was a genuine learning experience.
Sadly, I can’t remember his name, and I’ve never found another church like his, so I stoppped going because everywhere else I went, it was always the same thing: sex isn’t for fun, it’s to make babies, and people who fuck for fun go to hell, the end.
…Wow, this strip brings up painful personal memories.
That hidden image between the last two panels completely surprised me. Boy do I know how Joyce feels. How many times did I get a lustful thought and have to “submit to God; resist the Devil, and he will flee from you”…? It’s not easy having to “overcome” sexual desires.
*sigh* but damn it all, I hurt even more inside reading all the discussions blaming Christianity for her current hangups about sex. For me, even being raised in a conservative Christian environment, I was taught that sex was good, fun, and wholesome. The difference however is that I was also taught that it was sacred, not to be taken too lightly, and protected by the boundaries of monogamy between a man and a woman.
I don’t know where I was going with that thought, but I still want to have it written anyway. It just…it hurts to hear the faith that taught me a lot of good things get mud thrown at it for the things (which in my opinion are) not really the fault of its teachings, but the fault of its followers’ ignorance. Real Christianity does not teach sex is evil (Not from what I’ve read.
Anyway, just…wow. Today’s strip speaks to me a lot more than I had expected it to. And it’s kind of painful.
Well put, Sophus. +1.
My church also taught us that sex was good, fun, and wholesome. Like, specifically, those were the words they used to describe the way they taught us sex. I grew up believing that they had taught me that sex was good, fun, and wholesome. But you start mentioning that extra baggage about how it’s also supposed to be sacred and super important and only between two folks ever ever, and that’s where you suddenly find yourself in Joyce’s horrible shoes. It’s a contradictory message that screws you the hell up.
“Real Christianity” . . .could someone tell me what exactly that is?
I suppose we could go with the earliest version, where Jesus was just a guy who got promoted to some kinda angel-level being upon his death and resurrection. (And by resurrection, I mean he became an everlasting intangible spirit that some folks think they saw.) Also, in service of a doctrine that’s otherwise indistinguishable from Judaism.
That makes sex sound more like food. Just add in fortified with vitaman D and riboflavin.
Just noticed the naked dude 3 days later. Time to get my eyes checked.
ugh right in the feels, why did i have to be joyce when i was younger