He was just being a bit of a pervert. He didn’t do anything to actually hurt Joyce or anyone else. Joyce was really overreacting, and Joe was smart to end the relationship before it started.
Wow, everyone above me defending Joe like he’s blameless? You don’t go wandering eyes while on a date with someone else. Joe’s a complete sleazeball and deserved at least one punch in the face from Joyce.
No one really deserves Mike’s punches, though. That’s just the way Mike does things.
Depends on the relationship. My lady doesn’t mind if I look, I just can’t touch. Hell, I point out the nice looking ones to her (she enjoys a good looking woman as much as I do). Blanket statements are rarely helpful in anything, least of all relationships.
Given that by the time he glanced at Conquest he had already been punched repeatedly at Joyce’s paid request (which legally makes her EXACTLY as responsible for the act as Mike, by the way), I find it literally impossible to hold Joe at fault for anything that night. He had been AMAZINGLY tolerant about everything and unfailingly polite, and didn’t even ogle anybody! He was literally completely innocent.
Joe has actually been completely on the up-and-up the entire comic (aside from the nostalgia comic where he was climbing out the window). If I didn’t know better I would say that Willis is trying to redeem the character into somebody we can actually believe would be able to attract so many women.
He didn’t go wandering eyes. He looked at the waitress who directly addressed them. At her face, not her boobs, despite Mike’s claim to the contrary. Then he immediately looked away.
Joe was entirely blameless during that date.
I usually find Joyce’s prejudices and bigotry adorable, in a condescending “Aww, who’s a cute little fundie?” kind of way. Partially because I know, from reading It’s Walky, that she has the potential to grow out of it and become an all-around awesome character, partially because it’s obvious that she has the best of intentions and tries her hardest to be accepting.
On her date with Joe, though, she very briefly (but not briefly enough) turned into a scary psycho. It was kind of absurdly funny, but it clashed so much with the rest of her portrayal in DoA that I keep pretending it never happened.
She is right that her swearing would have impact, but that is from the shock.
But Joyce shows that she is upset plenty of times. She’s kidding herself in a big way about that part.
The only real difference to others is just the surprise of the swearing.
I won’t argue about one being more polite or appropriate, but that is really another issue.
Even though I’m someone who will curse when I have to cook food in the microwave for ten seconds longer than I’d like, I can respect where Joyce is coming from here.
This is going to lead up to the most epic of mind screws. Joyce walks in on Walky shirtless and making mac and cheese. She’s so turned on she immediately screams “FUCK ME NOW!”
The comments section reaches an all new high, although 2/3 of them are just people asking “What the hell?”
Personally I think I’d sooner turn tricks than vote for a Democrat, LOL!
Anyhow I don’t think getting her to cuss will be a good thing, mostly because she’s been holding a bunch in her whole life and once a Christian begins cussing you’re opening the floodgates and you better not be standing in the way. They’re about to create a monster.
Reminds me of that scene in Good Omens where the angel Aziraphale has gone the entire novel (and it’s implied the whole of eternity) without cursing. Then he accidentally steps into his summoning circle and says “Fuck.”
If Joyce ever does swear, it would be really fun, but on the other hand I kind of like her “I don’t like swearing and that’s okay” thing that she has going on.
Honestly, given her rant at Joe a couple strips ago, I think it’s more: “I like swearing and please stop trying to get me to do it right because then I’ll have to face that.”
It’s the same way she approaches her feelings about sex. Repress and deny, focus on innocuous substitutes.
Gotta be honest, I also share this mindset. Never got into the habit of swearing, and as a result when I use an f-bomb it has significance. They are deliberately used.
Granted this also means I get to be creative with casual swearing, like by using inappropriately used synonyms. It’s more fun to go “Oh, excrement” or “FORNICATE!!!” than use the actual intended words.
No, it isn’t. The actual origins are hazy, because it’s not been used in polite company since forever, and writing used not to be something the common people did, but from the evidence, it seems likely that we borrowed and adapted an Old Norse word. “Fuck” has probably been in English longer than the Latinate “carnal” has.
“Shit” is certainly not an acronym, either, while we’re at it. (That urban legend’s less popular anyway, possibly because Van Halen didn’t name an album after it.) That one’s easier to track, because it didn’t become a serious swear until after the Norman Conquest made “rude language” become “how the Saxons say it”. It comes from Old English scitte, and has been in English for well over a thousand years.
The thing about swearing I never truly understood is why words like twat, shit, piss, fuck, bongo and so on were ever classed as obscene even when the context of cursing wasn’t involved.
I love that Joe brought that up again. Her refusal to swear is ridiculous when you counter with the fact that she struck another person for a minor offense, and the fact that Joe has let it go for the most part says a lot about him as a person. He is, however, wary of her, as he should be. I like Joyce, but she’s incredibly immature as a person, and still reacts in a very childlike way to things. She’s all right with hitting people, but not with swearing? It’s like a seven year old.
That is not to say that people who refrain from swearing in itself are immature. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Maybe Joyce has discovered that swear-words also follow the Inverse Law of Ninjutsu: one ninja is powerful, one hundred ninja are practically worthless.
I remember when I was in middle or high school and we watched a Bill Nye episode where they talked to a dam operator. Everyone in the class laughed, and quoted the lady saying “I’m a dam operator.” repeatedly.
like say you just got up in the morning at none else is up and you go to make yourself something to eat, you get a box of cereal and a bowl, then you go to get some milk and as your opening the fridge, a HUGE explosion goes off in the fridge sending you fly back and landing on the ground splattering all the food every where, awakening everyone.
Thank you! There’s a difference that often seems to go unrecognized between saying “my head hurts like a bongo” and “get away from her you bongo!”
If you can’t make those two statements sound different from each other it’s not because you curse too much, it’s because you can’t make yourself understood.
Interestingly enough, Joe seems to swear primarily when he’s upset as a means of expressing that he’s upset. Yet Joyce doesn’t seem to agree with that either.
By contrast, Joyce seems like she has been pretty upset in this conversation, but her language has prevented anybody from taking it seriously. If her goal is as expressed, then this would’ve been an excellent opportunity to empower her statement with a swear.
I read somewhere that if prostitution is the oldest profession, then cursing has to be the oldest art form. Of course, this refers to curses that are more along the “may the fleas of a thousand camels, etc.” rather than just a recitation of expletives.
Couldn’t speech be considered the oldest art form and cursing a derivative? Hmm, could dance and sweet sweet lovin’ be considered ancient forms of art? TO the Humanities Department!
Again, there’s a pretty wide distance between “Sleazeball” and “Isn’t secretive about enjoying sex”.
If anything I’d think the sleazy course of action would be to hide these views from his clearly sexually conservative date, though even then I wouldn’t blame him for getting quiet with Mike leering over his shoulder.
Joyce response is dead on with my own. When I did drop a “F-bomb” for the first time, everyone in the state knew I was upset. And while I have only swear four times in my life, all of them were directed towards the individual who pushed me to that point.
People have a tendency to…laugh… when I swear. The first time I swore was using the word “hell” in an attempt to intimidate someone. That worked out great, yep yep. The next time was in high school when I called someone out for “acting like a dick”. His “posse” laughed at that.
I don’t blame Joyce for not wanting to curse. If she were to curse now, it would not make her friends take her more seriously.
No, it’d make her friends take her more seriously if she found an elegant way around her swearing. If you’re doing it right, people won’t even notice you don’t swear.
This is honestly one of the main reasons I read this comic as opposed to many other dramas like it.
Willis has done such a great job of writing that I can still think Joyce is just awkwardly immature throwing a tantrum. Even though willis has walked her through being a sexist ( yes. Yes many of the views she has about men are sexist) anti-homosexual ( trying to cure a gay boyfriend?) xenophobic ( I mean religion, not race here… Not sure what is the right word for ” I think the fact you’re an athirst is a bad thing I’ve learned to tolerate because you’re my best option at a friend”) domestic abuser ( she did hit her then relationship figure joe, justifying it as “you’re a guy, so it’s ok”) that I not only don’t dislike, but can also understand how and why she ended up this way to the point I feel bad for her views more than upset at them.
That’s an outstandingly well done character development. Good job willis.
Sorry for double post,
Forgot to mention. Her point is invalid. People won’t know she’s angry, they’ll be too caught up with the fact she just cussed that it will detract from her being angry.
“The seven dirty words (or “Filthy Words”) are seven English-language words that American comedian George Carlin first listed in 1972 in his monologue “Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television”.[1] The words are: shit, piss, fuck, conga, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits.”
So… Annoyed. I understand the opposition to casual swearing, but these elaborate explanations are too much. If you don’t like swearing, fine, don’t. But we could probably live without the fuckin’ manifesto.
Hardly a manifesto. Joe has been pushing and pressuring Joyce to do something she doesn’t want to do and is now literally waggling money in her face and acting incredulous that she still won’t perform for him. If someone has backed ME that far into a corner regarding something I feel wrong about doing, I’m most certainly gonna give them an earful of my reasons why. If no other reason, so that they will back the hell up off that subject and stop pestering me about it.
…….because refusing to perform for the amusement and derision of others, let alone by doing something you feel strongly against, clearly means that you are the one with the problem.
I don’t think this has anything to do with Joyce getting violent when she’s angry. Walky would be dead by now if she got violent every time he pissed her off. Joyce has exhibited violence against one type of person so far- men who try to take advantage of her sexually. And yeah, her issues with sex are well established to be deep and screwed up (no pun intended). And yes, there is a big difference between employing violence against an actual rapist trying to drug her and a scumbag like Joe that just wants to take advantage of her naivete so that he can “fix her with his penis”. But somehow I don’t think Joe badgering her about it while they are trying to enjoy lunch after the misery that was Parent’s Day is gonna solve any of these issues or accomplish anything constructive for anyone involved.
She punched Joe because he was staring at another girl’s breasts while on a date with her. (Mike punched him for other stuff, but she was asking Mike to stop until the staring thing came up, so that was what really upset her.) That really doesn’t qualify as trying to take advantage of her sexually.
He wasn’t even staring. He glanced involuntarily at a waitress’s chest when she stood next to him, placed her cleavage at his eye level, and then spoke to him. He then immediately glanced away and lamented the fact that the completely unjustified punchings that had been happening all night would continue.
Among the latter day saints the expression goes “If you don’t look once, you’re not a man. If you look twice you’re not a missionary”, meaning that it’s only human to notice an attractive woman, but as men of god our attention should not linger.
Joyce hadn’t even noticed Joe’s “staring” until Mike kindly informed her. Near as she could tell Mike had just struck the guy for no reason yet again, but since Mike’s the good wholesome upstanding person in this scenario to her his word was good enough cause to initiate a beatdown.
Joe’s commentary on lust shortly preceding the face punch painted a pretty good picture of the kind of guy he was. The breast oggling just confirmed what Joyce had already begun to suspect. And that is that Joe is the sort of guy that thinks of a girl who is naive and a virgin as a problem he wants to correct by having sex with it.
There’s a pretty far cry from “naive virgin” to “Hires random thugs to beat the dirty thoughts out of her dates”
He was calmly discussing his views on sexuality even while being punched repeatedly punched in reaction to those very views.
More than that. Calmly and civilly. He never in any way mocked or derided her for her own views on sexuality. He merely asked about them while explaining his own, again to a woman who had hired a random thug to beat the impurities out of his soul and thought this was a normal thing to do on a date.
Joyce was the one who responded to simple questions like “What’s wrong with lust?” with “Are you friggin kidding me?”. If any of them had a lack of respect for the other’s views on sexuality, it’s Joyce.
Uh, gangler, chaperoning a date isn’t the same thing as hiring a thug to beat up the impure. Unless I’ve just completely misread the “date” storyline, I think the “punch him in the face” part of the chaperoning experience was an embellishment on Mike’s part. And Joyce thinking that having a chaperone on a date is normal doesn’t exactly dissuade me from thinking she’s very sheltered and naive (or rather, she was when all this happened; grown a bit since then).
Look, I’m not writing off what Joyce did on that date. Attacking Joe was just plain wrong. If I had to guess I’d say that her volatile attitude towards sex and sexual desire (and that people who have it) is a projection of her own inner turmoil- the desires she has versus what she believes she should feel. That’s just my pop psychology take on it, though. To her credit, I don’t recall Joyce hitting anyone else (exempting the date rapist) after Joe pointed out it was a crap thing to do under the circumstances (that it never seemed to occur to her that hitting someone even if they are obviously stronger than you is wrong- re: naivete).
So let’s take it as a given that Joyce should not have responded to Joe the way she did regardless of underlying reasons. That being said, is Joyce’s analysis really terribly off base about Joe? Was he serious about the date? Was he looking for a one night stand or a long term commitment? Did he actually think all the bible thumping and isolated community quirks were endearing, or was he putting up with it to get into her pants? What if the date had gone well and he was able to seduce her to the point of being ready to go to bed with him? Would he have thought about what that might do to her? Would he have spared any thought at all toward whether Joyce really would have been “fixed” or whether it would have indeed broken her? Would he have cared about the answer? Would he have even thought to ask the question?
So yeah, that’s where I am right now. If I seem to be more on Joyce’s side in this it would be because she is demonstrably trying to overcome her demons (to varying extent) while Joe doesn’t even seem to know that he has demons of his own.
Maybe I’m just inexperienced with the chaperone hiring process, but it seems a bit hard to swallow that Joyce didn’t totally bring him here to punch in response to impure behavior when he totally opened up “All I want is carte blanche to punch anybody who acts inappropriately in the face” and she agreed to that.
It’s not like she hired him thinking he’d be a nonviolent chaperone and then he suddenly flew off the handle and she wasn’t able to stop him. She specifically hired a violent chaperone, who had agreed to perform violence in response to a particular set of behaviors, and then watched him perform violence on her date, and then finally went so far as to actively command him to enact violence on her date.
There were like five points in that story where she could’ve turned around and said “but seriously, no punching” or “By inappropriate behavior I kind of meant if he stops taking ‘no’ for an answer” or “Seriously, man. Cut that out. It was a funny gag the first few times but I think you’re legit hurting him”. Instead she told him to “get him”, and joined in on the beatdown, and then claimed that Mike’s fists were instruments of The Lord.
She can call it chaperoning all she wants, she brought a man to assault her date if he started thinking impure thoughts.
And again, Joe was civil throughout. What he wanted is irrelevant because he was completely respectful of what she wanted. He cannot be condemned on the basis of how might have conducted himself in the aftermath of a casual sexual encounter that never happened.
It is not taking advantage of anybody to express an interest in sex. It is not taking advantage of anybody to ask about your date’s views on sex. That is a normal exchange that would happen between two people testing the waters for a possibly romantic and/or sexual exchange of undecided length or commitment, ie a first date.
Civilized human beings are supposed to be able to walk in on a first date and say “This is what I’m looking for out of this, what are you looking for out of this?” so that one can say short term casual sex and the other can say long term potential marriage and they can both go their separate ways having concluded that they are incompatible nonetheworse for the experience. It speaks volumes towards Joe’s character that he was able to maintain this even while the cavewoman talks with her fists.
“Was he looking for a one night stand or a long term commitment” makes it sound like there’s a wrong answer to that.” -quote from Willis
Well, allow me to answer that by paraphrasing alternate Joe when tempted to sleep with alternate Joyce. “I do want to. But tomorrow I’ll move on to some other girl. And you won’t be able to handle that. Thinking that sleeping with you will change me is dishonest of me. And of you.” Like I said, paraphrasing, cause I’m too tired to hunt down the exact quote.
I like these characters a lot, but nothing about the new universe makes me believe that alt Joe’s analysis is any less valid here than it was in Itswalky. If anything, I would worry that Joyce would take being a one night stand even worse than alt Joyce would have, and I would equally worry that this incarnation of Joe has yet to find the maturity to make the same realization his Itswalky counterpart made.
So, to answer your question, it depends on the person you want to sleep with. Roz, for instance, probably preferred a one nighter to a long term commitment. But Joyce is looking for a major commitment. Joe knew that going into the date. In this situation I would say a one night stand WOULD be wrong because of what it would do to Joyce on the morning after. Granted, the date didn’t go well, so we don’t know what Joe would do if he managed to seduce Joyce to the point she’s willing to sleep with him. I’d like to believe if he had the same epiphany as Itswalky Joe that he would not go through with it, but I also have doubts that this version of Joe is self-aware or thinks far enough ahead to reach that epiphany.
Some people really, really enjoy making people swear when they can see it makes that person uncomfortable. If you can make them do it, it’s like seeing a nun with a skull tattoo on her neck…hilarious because it’s so “unnatural” for that person.
I know this because I used to be someone who never swore. My high school friends were dicks.
I suspect, maybe, there is a part of joe that doesn’t like himself. (maybe im giving him too much credit.) But that, despite Joyce’s own problems, he sees an innocence or…whatever….goodness? That he lost. He’s jealous of it and wants to see her lose it too.
Or more realistically, he’s noticed how she uses faux swears, which proves two things: 1) she actually wants to be swearing like a sailor, and 2) she sounds like a moron when she fails to swear. By her own religion the thought matters as much as the deed, so she’s already committed the crime when she faux-swears; whereas if she faces the facts that the words are just words, she can choose the level of profanity she likes and run with it.
And for all you who say you are just like Joyce in your non-swearing, do you really cut loose with the juvenile idiocy like Joyce does, or do you just avoid strongly voiced invectives altogether?
I’m someone who does not curse. Its not that I have anything against it, but I’m sorta like Joyce here. These words have more power if you don’t take them out like they are a cheap date.
I see no reason to casually curse, or just use the words for no reason. When I am really angry, I will use them, and trust me the effect is stronger. I usually get everyone to stop in their tracks, because they know I don’t curse. So when I do, they listen.
I’m also not uber religious, so it has absolutely nothing to do with that. That is where Joyce and I differ.
I’m the opposite! I only cuss when I’m in a cheerful describing mood (the air gets a little blue when I’m explaining Marvel comics history), and never when I’m angry. Swearing is just fun punctuation for me.
When I’m angry, I just say straight out what the problem is without much flavouring.
Random pet peeve. People talk about cheap dates like they’re bad things, but personally I kind of think it reflects a good companionship if you can go out without spending super amounts of money on distraction and still enjoy yourselves
I’d be a lot more impressed by her argument if she hasn’t previously used the words ‘damn’ and ‘hell’ while talking about the terrible things her God wants to do to people. If it’s just an aversion to saying the words (as opposed to an aversion to swearing, which is a different thing), then she should have avoided the words then too.
I don’t think I’m following your argument here. Maybe I’m missing the point? I don’t recall seeing Joyce ever using those words outside of a context in which they would be appropriate. What I mean by that is that it is perfectly okay to talk about damnation and hell if the discussion involves those theological concepts, e.g. “I am afraid that if I give into this sin that I will be damned to hell for it.” There’s a difference from using the literal meaning of a word and using that word as a curse or expression of outrage and anger. To think otherwise would be to assume that Joyce’s many discussions about Jesus and God have one and all been taking the Lord’s Name in vain (a concept that would make it very difficult indeed to be a Christian!). Along similar lines, there’s a certain word that is fine when used in the context of describing a feline but can be offensive if used to describe a woman’s lady parts. Also, “Bloody” is considered a swear word in the UK, but would surely be an appropriate way to describe the state of Mike’s clothes after a long night of chaperoning.
In which case she should be able to say the word in the current situation – a context-free utterance. That is not swearing. The words ‘damn’ and ‘damnation’ are not like ‘shit’ or ‘fuck’; they’re words Joyce actually uses. Speaking them like this, in a non-swearing context, shouldn’t suddenly make her mouth lock up. Unless her brain is broken or something.
Of all the words Joe could have asked for, he picked the ones for which your argument dies not work.
We’re probably all thinking the same thing Joe is: Joyce is the type of fundy nutbar who probably thinks that Democrats are Satan worshippers, presuming they’re not Satan himself in a clever disguise. It’s perfectly reasonable to think that voting for one is something she would never do.
I’m pretty sure early on in gender studies she said something along the lines of “take that, liberal elites!” in response to Twilight passing the Bechnel Test.
Remember the scene in the Simpsons ‘Who shot Mr. Burns’ episode when Homer gets a thank you card for the box of chocolates with the picture in, finds out his names not on it, asks the kids to leave the room, takes a deep breath, shouts ‘FU…’, and it cuts to church organs and birds flying away?
So am I the only one who thinks it’s kinda like super bizarre that our society (and many others for that matter !) has a set of words we made, to show our deeper-held emotions, such as incredibly strong anger, sadness, dissapointment, and lust, and then we decide these words are improper for polite society to the point where some people make a religious deal out of it ? It also makes me wonder if these words were superciliously long if the same stigma would still be there. Possibly not, possibly because it would be less likely to use them in frustration. In any event. I just think it’s really weird that anyone cares about these 4 letter words. I sometimes wonder if it isn’t a part of a greater trend of our society (and several others) finding strong displays of emotion distasteful in public.
Showing excessive emotion is occasionally bad, while repressing emotions is almost always bad. I think we have more to fear from being under-emotional than from being over-emotional
It’s not just our society. Swearing actually has psychological effects you don’t get with other words, including–no shit–helping alleviate pain. Swearing when you hurt yourself actually makes it hurt less.
If nothing else, there’s a reason Tourette’s Syndrome doesn’t make people unwillingly burst out inappropriate compliments.
This is the best web comic I’ve ever read and its main reason is that (IMHO) Joyce is not a one dimensional character but rather someone with their own unique foibles who may not get it right all the time but at least tries to improve
Despite the $20- which is almost pocket change to me nowadays, not like college days- I feel Joe is trying to intimidate Joyce into doing what he wants.
Which makes me dislike Joe.
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Joyce is dead right; the first time she cusses the entire fandom will fall out of their chairs
Everyone will burst into flames.People’s faces will melt. Men will give birth. It’ll be chaos.
Dogs and cats living together!
Mass hysteria!
Mass hysteria!
I always thought Pyromania was a better album.
Bwahahahaha
Mass hysteria! Three in a row, I win!
Halflife 3 confirmed!
Great-Hen confirmed.
Goku confirmed for Super Smash Bros 4!
3 confirmations! Half-Life 3 re-confirmed!
3 confirmations! Pokemon gen 3 remake confirmed.
Five confirmations! Hide the small boys!
Six confirmations, confirmations that unconfirmed confirmations of confirmation that confirmations are all false confirmed.
Finally! Great-Hen!
Wait… you mean not really?
Aizat!!!!!! *shakes fist*
But, she gets twenty dollars. I’d say that’s a fair trade.
As I mentioned last night. All of us will be shocked.
Why do I get the sense that Joyce cursing is going to be the climactic peak of this storyline?
Given what she’s passed over in polite silence so far, I’m guessing Walky revealing himself as the Head-Alien is probably gonna be what does it.
I thought Walky was Amazigirl?
Naah. Whatever *causes* Joyce to curse would be the climactic peak.
IT will be a really tense moment. The next comic will just be them standing their as Joe attempts to slip her the twenty.
Damn this thread is full of fortune tellers i swear
I’m trying to think of when it happened in It’s Walky…
Joyce cussing? It didn’t. Walkyverse Joyce never swore, ever.
Wack’d? Confirmation?
Sorry, I was mistaken. Joyce said “damn” once. That was the only time she ever used language harsher than “darn”.
Okay, I was wrong. Joyce swore once. I’d been operating under the assumption that she’d never sworn at all.
“Dumbing of Age is intended to be a stand-alone work and is set in its own separate continuity” -FAQ
This version of Joyce has never sworn!
I can respect Joyce’s decision, but Joe makes a fair point about the fist to his face.
Yeah, it says something when it’s easier to provoke someone to assault and battery than profanity.
Well she didn’t punch him, Mike did. Though she did tell Mike to keep going.
I don’t think she herself has ever physically tried to hurt someone.
If I recall, she joined in herself. Then claimed it was impossible for girls to hurt boys because boys are strong.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/olives/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/pray/
*wanders off*
Ah, okay. I guess I was mistaken since she hasn’t been shown on-screen punching someone.
Except that one time.
To be fair, he kinda deserved it. Maybe not the Mike part, but definitely the punch to the face.
No, he really didn’t.
No. He deserved to get told off. He did not deserve assault and battery.
He was just being a bit of a pervert. He didn’t do anything to actually hurt Joyce or anyone else. Joyce was really overreacting, and Joe was smart to end the relationship before it started.
Looking at a woman who looks like Conquest wearing the top Connie was wearing does not make Joe a pervert. It just makes him heterosexual.
Wow, everyone above me defending Joe like he’s blameless? You don’t go wandering eyes while on a date with someone else. Joe’s a complete sleazeball and deserved at least one punch in the face from Joyce.
No one really deserves Mike’s punches, though. That’s just the way Mike does things.
In your mind a suboptimal date is cause for physical violence?
In the comic world, absolutely. It’s funnier that way. 😀
No. Joe’s actions may have been rude – though, given that Conquest basically ambushed him with her boobs, and he immediately looked away, I’m not sure I can even get behind that – but responding to minor rudeness with physical violence is not how civilized people behave.
If I understand the lingo properly, that’s called bouncing your eyes, and is exactly what a good Christian boy is supposed to do.
Good evangelical ones, maybe. Grew up Crazy Christian and nevah hoid of it myself.
Depends on the relationship. My lady doesn’t mind if I look, I just can’t touch. Hell, I point out the nice looking ones to her (she enjoys a good looking woman as much as I do). Blanket statements are rarely helpful in anything, least of all relationships.
My girlfriend points out cute girls to me all the time.
Being a bad date is not worth violence.
. . . What a gravatar to have.
What Joe did was mildly jerkish. Violence is not justified by mild jerkery. Joe’s exactly right.
Given that by the time he glanced at Conquest he had already been punched repeatedly at Joyce’s paid request (which legally makes her EXACTLY as responsible for the act as Mike, by the way), I find it literally impossible to hold Joe at fault for anything that night. He had been AMAZINGLY tolerant about everything and unfailingly polite, and didn’t even ogle anybody! He was literally completely innocent.
Joe has actually been completely on the up-and-up the entire comic (aside from the nostalgia comic where he was climbing out the window). If I didn’t know better I would say that Willis is trying to redeem the character into somebody we can actually believe would be able to attract so many women.
And maybe say that even a man who focuses on sex can be one that gives respect women in the important ways.
He didn’t go wandering eyes. He looked at the waitress who directly addressed them. At her face, not her boobs, despite Mike’s claim to the contrary. Then he immediately looked away.
Joe was entirely blameless during that date.
I usually find Joyce’s prejudices and bigotry adorable, in a condescending “Aww, who’s a cute little fundie?” kind of way. Partially because I know, from reading It’s Walky, that she has the potential to grow out of it and become an all-around awesome character, partially because it’s obvious that she has the best of intentions and tries her hardest to be accepting.
On her date with Joe, though, she very briefly (but not briefly enough) turned into a scary psycho. It was kind of absurdly funny, but it clashed so much with the rest of her portrayal in DoA that I keep pretending it never happened.
You can’t be goin’ around fistin’ dudes.
PFFT Says who?
You have buy them dinner first.
A movie wouldn’t hurt, either.
a nickel
Is Joe a mom?
In some strange alternate universe… Joe would be 2nd best mom
Is Dina the best mom in that universe?
Dina is always #1
I actually like Joyce’s mindset (though i could never follow it)
On another note, EPIC FORESHADOWING
She is right that her swearing would have impact, but that is from the shock.
But Joyce shows that she is upset plenty of times. She’s kidding herself in a big way about that part.
The only real difference to others is just the surprise of the swearing.
I won’t argue about one being more polite or appropriate, but that is really another issue.
Even though I’m someone who will curse when I have to cook food in the microwave for ten seconds longer than I’d like, I can respect where Joyce is coming from here.
This is going to lead up to the most epic of mind screws. Joyce walks in on Walky shirtless and making mac and cheese. She’s so turned on she immediately screams “FUCK ME NOW!”
The comments section reaches an all new high, although 2/3 of them are just people asking “What the hell?”
The last 1/3 is people asking “What the heck?”
And the remaining 0.0000 (repeating) are “qu’est ce que fuck?”
And the camera turns to reveal that she’s talking to Dorothy
The less Joyce swears now, the more effective swearing will be when she hurts herself really bad.
As in universe ending effective.
Unlike when I swear cuzz I do it all the time.
So do I. Especially when I got stuck in traffic.
I haven’t expressed emotion in 65 years. Even I don’t know what would happen if I ever cursed.
I’m saving it for a really dire emergency.
Are you Batman?
Guess.
Did you train hard to be the best at cursing?
The universe ends whenever I swear. It ended like 10 or 12 times yesterday.
Personally I think I’d sooner turn tricks than vote for a Democrat, LOL!
Anyhow I don’t think getting her to cuss will be a good thing, mostly because she’s been holding a bunch in her whole life and once a Christian begins cussing you’re opening the floodgates and you better not be standing in the way. They’re about to create a monster.
I grew up in a family of Catholics. There was all the goddamned cursing your fucking ears could handle.
Catholics are the best cursers I know, especially Irish Catholics. 🙂
A kiss on the cheek.
A fist on the face is such a bold accessory. I don’t think I could pull it off.
Reminds me of how AMC let Breaking Bad say “Fuck” once per season so they had to make it count.
Reminds me of that scene in Good Omens where the angel Aziraphale has gone the entire novel (and it’s implied the whole of eternity) without cursing. Then he accidentally steps into his summoning circle and says “Fuck.”
It was awesome.
Searching for my copy of the book now…..
I hate movies where every fourth word is “fuck”. Ruins the potential for it to have any impact.
Joyce’s reasoning is the same reason I don’t curse a lot, and why I refrain from saying the f-word.
The strip title looks like an approving response to Joyce’s statement.
And, Joyce, we can tell when you’re upset, because you start shooting lasers out of your eyes like that.
Right into his teeth!
I completely get Joyce’s point here. My old manager rarely swears. When she does, you know she’s really pissed off.
Go Joyce for staying true to her convictions. Kinda hoping that Joe gets punched in the face because of these last few pages.
I hope that he gets punched in the lips by Sarah’s lips.
Okay, let’s go with the compromise, punched first and then kissed.
A kiss with a fist is better than none…
If Joyce ever does swear, it would be really fun, but on the other hand I kind of like her “I don’t like swearing and that’s okay” thing that she has going on.
More: “I don’t like swearing and please stop trying to make me question that.”
Honestly, given her rant at Joe a couple strips ago, I think it’s more: “I like swearing and please stop trying to get me to do it right because then I’ll have to face that.”
It’s the same way she approaches her feelings about sex. Repress and deny, focus on innocuous substitutes.
Joyce has an intuitive understanding of the value of the Precision F-Strike
I, on the other hand, prefer the carpet-bombing techniques of Quentin Tarantino
Or the Atomic F-Bomb.
Ah. I feel you, Joyce.
Those who don’t swear often are the ones with true power when they DO swear.
More like people who don’t swear often just sound really weird when they actually curse. It’s almost unnatural unless you do it for a while.
Yeah. When mom swore, you dove for cover man. Someone was about to get some real learnin’ applied to ’em.
She makes ‘damn’ sound like a magic word, like ‘brisingr’ or ‘Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.’
Klaatu… Barada… Nicshvbkshrbalnj… fuck.
Fuego!
Point 1: Joe
Point 1: Joyce
…oh man I just realized an army of Joyces is basically running the MPAA.
This film has been rated P for Pre-Marital Hanky Panky.
Nah, it’s been rated F for Fuck.
The word or the deed? If it has both, is it rated FF?
Yes. On both fronts.
And fucking on both fronts has a completely different rating altogether.
FOBF?
Gotta be honest, I also share this mindset. Never got into the habit of swearing, and as a result when I use an f-bomb it has significance. They are deliberately used.
Granted this also means I get to be creative with casual swearing, like by using inappropriately used synonyms. It’s more fun to go “Oh, excrement” or “FORNICATE!!!” than use the actual intended words.
In many ways, fornicating is a better f-word than fuck is.
Oh well then I guess I’d better tell them to fornicate off then
Or you can use *Father Jack Hackett’s Catch Phrase: “FECK OFF” *uppercut*
*(The old guy from Father Ted)
“Oh, intercourse the penguin!”
“I had intercourse with the fear turkey.”
+1
“I had a nice dinner date with the fear turkey.”
Try “For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.” It doesn’t sound nearly as bad, but means the same thing. Literally. Fuck is an acronym.
No, it isn’t. The actual origins are hazy, because it’s not been used in polite company since forever, and writing used not to be something the common people did, but from the evidence, it seems likely that we borrowed and adapted an Old Norse word. “Fuck” has probably been in English longer than the Latinate “carnal” has.
“Shit” is certainly not an acronym, either, while we’re at it. (That urban legend’s less popular anyway, possibly because Van Halen didn’t name an album after it.) That one’s easier to track, because it didn’t become a serious swear until after the Norman Conquest made “rude language” become “how the Saxons say it”. It comes from Old English scitte, and has been in English for well over a thousand years.
Pssst – Joyce! Joe does have a fee for his silence.
It’s $69.00.
I see what you did there.
The thing about swearing I never truly understood is why words like twat, shit, piss, fuck, bongo and so on were ever classed as obscene even when the context of cursing wasn’t involved.
I got George Carlin flashbacks.
I love that Joe brought that up again. Her refusal to swear is ridiculous when you counter with the fact that she struck another person for a minor offense, and the fact that Joe has let it go for the most part says a lot about him as a person. He is, however, wary of her, as he should be. I like Joyce, but she’s incredibly immature as a person, and still reacts in a very childlike way to things. She’s all right with hitting people, but not with swearing? It’s like a seven year old.
That is not to say that people who refrain from swearing in itself are immature. There’s nothing wrong with that.
According to Joyce:
Swearing = WRONG
Hiring someone to beat the shit out of someone = AOK!
Double standards, it works..unless you’re a guy.
I think you mean “beat the poo out of someone”.
I dunno about you, but Joyce is inching more and more towards criticality…
Is she reaching critical mass?
I see foreshadowing coming our way.
(Surprised she didn’t at least say damn to her parents or something when she finally chewed them out)
Joyce may not be able to swear, but she snarks just fine.
It’s all that D&MM she’s been watching. She’s been corrupted by the culture of snarkiness.
Maybe Joyce has discovered that swear-words also follow the Inverse Law of Ninjutsu: one ninja is powerful, one hundred ninja are practically worthless.
That’s not how it worked for James Bond in “You Only Live Twice”.
Joe’s 20 dollar bill looks suspiciously like a coupon.
It’s actually a pamphlet with a Bible verse in it made up to look like a twenty.
The Bible verse is Ephesians 4:29.
Wait, no, I’m getting Joe mixed up with Mike.
It’s a coupon for $20 that’s good anywhere in the US.
I would have thought that Joyce would have no problem quoting a bible verse that uses the term ‘damnation’
She could just say: “Dam! Noun. A barrier preventing the flow of water or of loose solid materials (as soil or snow)
…and no worrying about it not having any ‘meaning’ either!
When I was younger I had trouble saying the word “dam.”
I would spell it out rather than pronounce it.
I did that too, after I learned that “damn” was a curse word the hard way.
Wonder if that is why there aren’t many fundamentalist civil engineers? If you can’t say it, you can’t built it.
I remember when I was in middle or high school and we watched a Bill Nye episode where they talked to a dam operator. Everyone in the class laughed, and quoted the lady saying “I’m a dam operator.” repeatedly.
The day she curse’s will be unexpected as hell.
like say you just got up in the morning at none else is up and you go to make yourself something to eat, you get a box of cereal and a bowl, then you go to get some milk and as your opening the fridge, a HUGE explosion goes off in the fridge sending you fly back and landing on the ground splattering all the food every where, awakening everyone.
That’s how unexpected it will
In my opinion you can still swear and have it mean something even if you do it a lot. To me it’s all about how you say it not what you say.
Thank you! There’s a difference that often seems to go unrecognized between saying “my head hurts like a bongo” and “get away from her you bongo!”
If you can’t make those two statements sound different from each other it’s not because you curse too much, it’s because you can’t make yourself understood.
…I…I’m sorry, I can’t not ship this all Han and Leia-style. I just can’t.
You scoundrel!
Likewise.
For some reason, my mind casts Joyce as Han and Joe as Leia. Might be the vest.
I could actually potentially ship this if Joe said “I love you” and Joyce said “I know.”
You’ll be damned to Hell for trying to corrupt this Christian. *yoink*
Interestingly enough, Joe seems to swear primarily when he’s upset as a means of expressing that he’s upset. Yet Joyce doesn’t seem to agree with that either.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/drinks/
By contrast, Joyce seems like she has been pretty upset in this conversation, but her language has prevented anybody from taking it seriously. If her goal is as expressed, then this would’ve been an excellent opportunity to empower her statement with a swear.
I read somewhere that if prostitution is the oldest profession, then cursing has to be the oldest art form. Of course, this refers to curses that are more along the “may the fleas of a thousand camels, etc.” rather than just a recitation of expletives.
Couldn’t speech be considered the oldest art form and cursing a derivative? Hmm, could dance and sweet sweet lovin’ be considered ancient forms of art? TO the Humanities Department!
No it doesn’t. A litany of curse words is NOT a modern invention..
So it’s really hard for Joyce to swear, but incredibly easy to physically hurt a guy who wants to have sex with her, but knows that ‘no’ means ‘no’.
A moral sleazeball is still a sleazeball.
And we all know that being a sleazeball justifies physical violence.
Again, there’s a pretty wide distance between “Sleazeball” and “Isn’t secretive about enjoying sex”.
If anything I’d think the sleazy course of action would be to hide these views from his clearly sexually conservative date, though even then I wouldn’t blame him for getting quiet with Mike leering over his shoulder.
People can be weird that way. Personally, I swear like a sailor to keep myself from punching people. Maybe Joyce should consider that.
Joyce response is dead on with my own. When I did drop a “F-bomb” for the first time, everyone in the state knew I was upset. And while I have only swear four times in my life, all of them were directed towards the individual who pushed me to that point.
OH MY GOSH! YES JOYCE!!! This is the happiest you could ever make me david willis.
(notice I said the happiest *you* could make me *not others*)
People have a tendency to…laugh… when I swear. The first time I swore was using the word “hell” in an attempt to intimidate someone. That worked out great, yep yep. The next time was in high school when I called someone out for “acting like a dick”. His “posse” laughed at that.
I don’t blame Joyce for not wanting to curse. If she were to curse now, it would not make her friends take her more seriously.
No, it’d make her friends take her more seriously if she found an elegant way around her swearing. If you’re doing it right, people won’t even notice you don’t swear.
Now Kiss
Anyone else reminded of Simon in Firefly?
Oh, no. She’s about to turn a corner and see a statue honoring Joe as a hero, isn’t she?
JOE! THEY CALLED HIM JOE!
Didn’t think Joe was that good in bed.
I can totally see Joyce wearing sayai armor and going super sayain yelling damn you!
Hmm. “I Was A Teenage Churchmouse”.
This turned out better than expected.
This is honestly one of the main reasons I read this comic as opposed to many other dramas like it.
Willis has done such a great job of writing that I can still think Joyce is just awkwardly immature throwing a tantrum. Even though willis has walked her through being a sexist ( yes. Yes many of the views she has about men are sexist) anti-homosexual ( trying to cure a gay boyfriend?) xenophobic ( I mean religion, not race here… Not sure what is the right word for ” I think the fact you’re an athirst is a bad thing I’ve learned to tolerate because you’re my best option at a friend”) domestic abuser ( she did hit her then relationship figure joe, justifying it as “you’re a guy, so it’s ok”) that I not only don’t dislike, but can also understand how and why she ended up this way to the point I feel bad for her views more than upset at them.
That’s an outstandingly well done character development. Good job willis.
Sorry for double post,
Forgot to mention. Her point is invalid. People won’t know she’s angry, they’ll be too caught up with the fact she just cussed that it will detract from her being angry.
Now make out.
Joyce, I bet you can get a lot of people to pool their money into the “shut up, Joe” fund.
I disagree.
A “Shut up Danny” fund on the other hand…
Or she could just employ mike again
“The seven dirty words (or “Filthy Words”) are seven English-language words that American comedian George Carlin first listed in 1972 in his monologue “Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television”.[1] The words are: shit, piss, fuck, conga, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits.”
Chekhov’s Promise
Geez, Joe, leave her alone.
So… Annoyed. I understand the opposition to casual swearing, but these elaborate explanations are too much. If you don’t like swearing, fine, don’t. But we could probably live without the fuckin’ manifesto.
Hardly a manifesto. Joe has been pushing and pressuring Joyce to do something she doesn’t want to do and is now literally waggling money in her face and acting incredulous that she still won’t perform for him. If someone has backed ME that far into a corner regarding something I feel wrong about doing, I’m most certainly gonna give them an earful of my reasons why. If no other reason, so that they will back the hell up off that subject and stop pestering me about it.
Do I detect a hint of foreshadowing?
Yeah, no kidding.
I’m really hoping this is foreshadowing that does not pertain to attempted rape guy. I really, really hope.
Oh yeah, forgot about him. Let’s hope he never comes back.
If he does, I hope Sarah gets a chance to hit for the cycle.
If she does, I think we may have another Amber moment on our hands.
I was thinking the same thing.
As much as people may not like Joe, he’s got a pretty valid point there.
Joyce is sanctimonious.
…….because refusing to perform for the amusement and derision of others, let alone by doing something you feel strongly against, clearly means that you are the one with the problem.
Seriously, what?
More like “Its fucked up that you’ll hit people because you’re mad, but cursing is a bridge too far”. And it is. Kinda funny, but deeply fucked up.
I don’t think this has anything to do with Joyce getting violent when she’s angry. Walky would be dead by now if she got violent every time he pissed her off. Joyce has exhibited violence against one type of person so far- men who try to take advantage of her sexually. And yeah, her issues with sex are well established to be deep and screwed up (no pun intended). And yes, there is a big difference between employing violence against an actual rapist trying to drug her and a scumbag like Joe that just wants to take advantage of her naivete so that he can “fix her with his penis”. But somehow I don’t think Joe badgering her about it while they are trying to enjoy lunch after the misery that was Parent’s Day is gonna solve any of these issues or accomplish anything constructive for anyone involved.
She punched Joe because he was staring at another girl’s breasts while on a date with her. (Mike punched him for other stuff, but she was asking Mike to stop until the staring thing came up, so that was what really upset her.) That really doesn’t qualify as trying to take advantage of her sexually.
He wasn’t even staring. He glanced involuntarily at a waitress’s chest when she stood next to him, placed her cleavage at his eye level, and then spoke to him. He then immediately glanced away and lamented the fact that the completely unjustified punchings that had been happening all night would continue.
Among the latter day saints the expression goes “If you don’t look once, you’re not a man. If you look twice you’re not a missionary”, meaning that it’s only human to notice an attractive woman, but as men of god our attention should not linger.
Joyce hadn’t even noticed Joe’s “staring” until Mike kindly informed her. Near as she could tell Mike had just struck the guy for no reason yet again, but since Mike’s the good wholesome upstanding person in this scenario to her his word was good enough cause to initiate a beatdown.
Joe’s commentary on lust shortly preceding the face punch painted a pretty good picture of the kind of guy he was. The breast oggling just confirmed what Joyce had already begun to suspect. And that is that Joe is the sort of guy that thinks of a girl who is naive and a virgin as a problem he wants to correct by having sex with it.
So derision > physical violence. Got it.
Well, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will… net me twenty bucks?
Well played, Willis. Well played.
You still haven’t earned that Jackson, though. >:(
There’s a pretty far cry from “naive virgin” to “Hires random thugs to beat the dirty thoughts out of her dates”
He was calmly discussing his views on sexuality even while being punched repeatedly punched in reaction to those very views.
More than that. Calmly and civilly. He never in any way mocked or derided her for her own views on sexuality. He merely asked about them while explaining his own, again to a woman who had hired a random thug to beat the impurities out of his soul and thought this was a normal thing to do on a date.
Joyce was the one who responded to simple questions like “What’s wrong with lust?” with “Are you friggin kidding me?”. If any of them had a lack of respect for the other’s views on sexuality, it’s Joyce.
Uh, gangler, chaperoning a date isn’t the same thing as hiring a thug to beat up the impure. Unless I’ve just completely misread the “date” storyline, I think the “punch him in the face” part of the chaperoning experience was an embellishment on Mike’s part. And Joyce thinking that having a chaperone on a date is normal doesn’t exactly dissuade me from thinking she’s very sheltered and naive (or rather, she was when all this happened; grown a bit since then).
Look, I’m not writing off what Joyce did on that date. Attacking Joe was just plain wrong. If I had to guess I’d say that her volatile attitude towards sex and sexual desire (and that people who have it) is a projection of her own inner turmoil- the desires she has versus what she believes she should feel. That’s just my pop psychology take on it, though. To her credit, I don’t recall Joyce hitting anyone else (exempting the date rapist) after Joe pointed out it was a crap thing to do under the circumstances (that it never seemed to occur to her that hitting someone even if they are obviously stronger than you is wrong- re: naivete).
So let’s take it as a given that Joyce should not have responded to Joe the way she did regardless of underlying reasons. That being said, is Joyce’s analysis really terribly off base about Joe? Was he serious about the date? Was he looking for a one night stand or a long term commitment? Did he actually think all the bible thumping and isolated community quirks were endearing, or was he putting up with it to get into her pants? What if the date had gone well and he was able to seduce her to the point of being ready to go to bed with him? Would he have thought about what that might do to her? Would he have spared any thought at all toward whether Joyce really would have been “fixed” or whether it would have indeed broken her? Would he have cared about the answer? Would he have even thought to ask the question?
So yeah, that’s where I am right now. If I seem to be more on Joyce’s side in this it would be because she is demonstrably trying to overcome her demons (to varying extent) while Joe doesn’t even seem to know that he has demons of his own.
“Was he looking for a one night stand or a long term commitment” makes it sound like there’s a wrong answer to that.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/chaperone/
Maybe I’m just inexperienced with the chaperone hiring process, but it seems a bit hard to swallow that Joyce didn’t totally bring him here to punch in response to impure behavior when he totally opened up “All I want is carte blanche to punch anybody who acts inappropriately in the face” and she agreed to that.
It’s not like she hired him thinking he’d be a nonviolent chaperone and then he suddenly flew off the handle and she wasn’t able to stop him. She specifically hired a violent chaperone, who had agreed to perform violence in response to a particular set of behaviors, and then watched him perform violence on her date, and then finally went so far as to actively command him to enact violence on her date.
There were like five points in that story where she could’ve turned around and said “but seriously, no punching” or “By inappropriate behavior I kind of meant if he stops taking ‘no’ for an answer” or “Seriously, man. Cut that out. It was a funny gag the first few times but I think you’re legit hurting him”. Instead she told him to “get him”, and joined in on the beatdown, and then claimed that Mike’s fists were instruments of The Lord.
She can call it chaperoning all she wants, she brought a man to assault her date if he started thinking impure thoughts.
And again, Joe was civil throughout. What he wanted is irrelevant because he was completely respectful of what she wanted. He cannot be condemned on the basis of how might have conducted himself in the aftermath of a casual sexual encounter that never happened.
It is not taking advantage of anybody to express an interest in sex. It is not taking advantage of anybody to ask about your date’s views on sex. That is a normal exchange that would happen between two people testing the waters for a possibly romantic and/or sexual exchange of undecided length or commitment, ie a first date.
Civilized human beings are supposed to be able to walk in on a first date and say “This is what I’m looking for out of this, what are you looking for out of this?” so that one can say short term casual sex and the other can say long term potential marriage and they can both go their separate ways having concluded that they are incompatible nonetheworse for the experience. It speaks volumes towards Joe’s character that he was able to maintain this even while the cavewoman talks with her fists.
“Was he looking for a one night stand or a long term commitment” makes it sound like there’s a wrong answer to that.” -quote from Willis
Well, allow me to answer that by paraphrasing alternate Joe when tempted to sleep with alternate Joyce. “I do want to. But tomorrow I’ll move on to some other girl. And you won’t be able to handle that. Thinking that sleeping with you will change me is dishonest of me. And of you.” Like I said, paraphrasing, cause I’m too tired to hunt down the exact quote.
I like these characters a lot, but nothing about the new universe makes me believe that alt Joe’s analysis is any less valid here than it was in Itswalky. If anything, I would worry that Joyce would take being a one night stand even worse than alt Joyce would have, and I would equally worry that this incarnation of Joe has yet to find the maturity to make the same realization his Itswalky counterpart made.
So, to answer your question, it depends on the person you want to sleep with. Roz, for instance, probably preferred a one nighter to a long term commitment. But Joyce is looking for a major commitment. Joe knew that going into the date. In this situation I would say a one night stand WOULD be wrong because of what it would do to Joyce on the morning after. Granted, the date didn’t go well, so we don’t know what Joe would do if he managed to seduce Joyce to the point she’s willing to sleep with him. I’d like to believe if he had the same epiphany as Itswalky Joe that he would not go through with it, but I also have doubts that this version of Joe is self-aware or thinks far enough ahead to reach that epiphany.
So here’s a fairly relevant question.
WHAT THE HELL IS JOE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE? WHAT IS EVEN THE POINT?
Some people really, really enjoy making people swear when they can see it makes that person uncomfortable. If you can make them do it, it’s like seeing a nun with a skull tattoo on her neck…hilarious because it’s so “unnatural” for that person.
I know this because I used to be someone who never swore. My high school friends were dicks.
Or he might be pissed because Joyce just went off on him for hitting on Sarah, which was none of her business.
Or they might not like each other. Or he might not like fundies. Or Joyce just might sound really funny.
&c.
I suspect, maybe, there is a part of joe that doesn’t like himself. (maybe im giving him too much credit.) But that, despite Joyce’s own problems, he sees an innocence or…whatever….goodness? That he lost. He’s jealous of it and wants to see her lose it too.
That DOES explain his swirling black cape and twirled mustache. I wondered about that character redesign.
Or more realistically, he’s noticed how she uses faux swears, which proves two things: 1) she actually wants to be swearing like a sailor, and 2) she sounds like a moron when she fails to swear. By her own religion the thought matters as much as the deed, so she’s already committed the crime when she faux-swears; whereas if she faces the facts that the words are just words, she can choose the level of profanity she likes and run with it.
And for all you who say you are just like Joyce in your non-swearing, do you really cut loose with the juvenile idiocy like Joyce does, or do you just avoid strongly voiced invectives altogether?
I’m someone who does not curse. Its not that I have anything against it, but I’m sorta like Joyce here. These words have more power if you don’t take them out like they are a cheap date.
I see no reason to casually curse, or just use the words for no reason. When I am really angry, I will use them, and trust me the effect is stronger. I usually get everyone to stop in their tracks, because they know I don’t curse. So when I do, they listen.
I’m also not uber religious, so it has absolutely nothing to do with that. That is where Joyce and I differ.
I’m the opposite! I only cuss when I’m in a cheerful describing mood (the air gets a little blue when I’m explaining Marvel comics history), and never when I’m angry. Swearing is just fun punctuation for me.
When I’m angry, I just say straight out what the problem is without much flavouring.
Random pet peeve. People talk about cheap dates like they’re bad things, but personally I kind of think it reflects a good companionship if you can go out without spending super amounts of money on distraction and still enjoy yourselves
And so what Willis foretold in the commentary on Book 1 has come to pass. As it was written…
As a French Canadian, I truly believe in the power of swearing.
My own culture is based on it. 🙂
I’d be a lot more impressed by her argument if she hasn’t previously used the words ‘damn’ and ‘hell’ while talking about the terrible things her God wants to do to people. If it’s just an aversion to saying the words (as opposed to an aversion to swearing, which is a different thing), then she should have avoided the words then too.
Did you not read the comic? When she says these words, she wants them to have meaning.
I don’t think I’m following your argument here. Maybe I’m missing the point? I don’t recall seeing Joyce ever using those words outside of a context in which they would be appropriate. What I mean by that is that it is perfectly okay to talk about damnation and hell if the discussion involves those theological concepts, e.g. “I am afraid that if I give into this sin that I will be damned to hell for it.” There’s a difference from using the literal meaning of a word and using that word as a curse or expression of outrage and anger. To think otherwise would be to assume that Joyce’s many discussions about Jesus and God have one and all been taking the Lord’s Name in vain (a concept that would make it very difficult indeed to be a Christian!). Along similar lines, there’s a certain word that is fine when used in the context of describing a feline but can be offensive if used to describe a woman’s lady parts. Also, “Bloody” is considered a swear word in the UK, but would surely be an appropriate way to describe the state of Mike’s clothes after a long night of chaperoning.
In which case she should be able to say the word in the current situation – a context-free utterance. That is not swearing. The words ‘damn’ and ‘damnation’ are not like ‘shit’ or ‘fuck’; they’re words Joyce actually uses. Speaking them like this, in a non-swearing context, shouldn’t suddenly make her mouth lock up. Unless her brain is broken or something.
Of all the words Joe could have asked for, he picked the ones for which your argument dies not work.
It was just yesterday that she said Darnation.
Aaaand just like that, I’m kind of shipping Joe and Joyce.
Yeah, Joe. I have to agree with you.
It’s only a word.
She’s going to waste it. She’s just going to shout it at the heavens, impressing no one, as soon as Dina dies.
“I’m not asking you to turn tricks or vote for a Democrat.”
Can’t believe everybody let *THAT* remark go by without a comment.
Not everybody did! Though personally I’m impressed that, so far, everyone has chosen to ignore the dude who didn’t.
not everyone! one guy didn’t ignore the guy who didn’t let the comment pass unmarked.
We’re probably all thinking the same thing Joe is: Joyce is the type of fundy nutbar who probably thinks that Democrats are Satan worshippers, presuming they’re not Satan himself in a clever disguise. It’s perfectly reasonable to think that voting for one is something she would never do.
I’m pretty sure early on in gender studies she said something along the lines of “take that, liberal elites!” in response to Twilight passing the Bechnel Test.
She does. But the way Joyce sticks her tongue out at Dorothy in the preceding panel is just too adorkable!
Joyce WINS
Remember the scene in the Simpsons ‘Who shot Mr. Burns’ episode when Homer gets a thank you card for the box of chocolates with the picture in, finds out his names not on it, asks the kids to leave the room, takes a deep breath, shouts ‘FU…’, and it cuts to church organs and birds flying away?
That’s what will happen when Joyce swears.
Except that it’ll happen in-universe and everybody’ll wonder where all these loud bells suddenly appeared from.
joyce- swear words only in the most dire of situations, violence is a much more acceptable! joe has a point.
Swear or don’t swear, just please god don’t do the *** thing. That is the compromise of a weak fool.
I didn’t swear in my youth, but that was because the words weren’t long enough. I mistook word length for value.
Considering where Joyce’s mind went when Sarah mentioned her “toys”, I wonder if she even knows what Joe means about “turning tricks”?
…why do I ship these two?
They argue like they’re married, perhaps?
Joyce & Joe have always had odd chemistry, even in Roomies. It’s odd, but they’ve always been very complementary characters.
Redundant second sentence is redundant. Go Narf!
(boo, hiss)
“Dammit Joyce, it’s just a fucking word. Who the fuck gives a shit?”
“JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR GIVES A S-….poop”
So am I the only one who thinks it’s kinda like super bizarre that our society (and many others for that matter !) has a set of words we made, to show our deeper-held emotions, such as incredibly strong anger, sadness, dissapointment, and lust, and then we decide these words are improper for polite society to the point where some people make a religious deal out of it ? It also makes me wonder if these words were superciliously long if the same stigma would still be there. Possibly not, possibly because it would be less likely to use them in frustration. In any event. I just think it’s really weird that anyone cares about these 4 letter words. I sometimes wonder if it isn’t a part of a greater trend of our society (and several others) finding strong displays of emotion distasteful in public.
That is because emotions make people do stupid things, hence strong displays of emotions are rightfully frowned upon.
The ability to control one’s emotions is just as an important part of education/civilization as the ability to think critically.
Showing excessive emotion is occasionally bad, while repressing emotions is almost always bad. I think we have more to fear from being under-emotional than from being over-emotional
In the words of George Carlin… There are no bad words. Bad thoughts, and… words.
It’s not just our society. Swearing actually has psychological effects you don’t get with other words, including–no shit–helping alleviate pain. Swearing when you hurt yourself actually makes it hurt less.
If nothing else, there’s a reason Tourette’s Syndrome doesn’t make people unwillingly burst out inappropriate compliments.
Another good reason to not swear is that, at this point, it would give Joe some small measure of satisfaction, a price far more grave than $20.
great page
Here’s what’ll happen. Joe and sarah will start cursing to bother Joyce, and then Riley comes in.
“Gee, Roz, is everyone here so foul mouthed?”.
This is the best web comic I’ve ever read and its main reason is that (IMHO) Joyce is not a one dimensional character but rather someone with their own unique foibles who may not get it right all the time but at least tries to improve
Despite the $20- which is almost pocket change to me nowadays, not like college days- I feel Joe is trying to intimidate Joyce into doing what he wants.
Which makes me dislike Joe.
JOYCE THINK OF ALL THE DEXTER AND MONKEY MASTER MERCH YOU COULD GET WITH THAT MONEY
Well THIS is foreshadowing if I ever saw it!
YEP
TOOK A KIDNAPPING, BUT YEP
seriously they even say ass in the Bible I’ve seen it, just get her to read that, she’d be cool with it.
Seems legit
As of latest strips: meaning achieved.
I get it now. I finally get it.
People talking in movie shows,
People smoking in bed,
People voting for Donald Trump,
Give them a boot to the head.