It was pretty clearly in the plot a matter of ‘she is a woman’. Like, she says “I’m not gay” after displaying clear interest in Ethan, and sends him her address, and it is addressed to Jocelyn. Not a high bar of ‘connect the dots’ here.
Sure, except that could mean cross dressing, second identity, or undergoing gender reassignment surgery.
I remember that arc, but identifying as a woman doesn’t necessarily mean any one of those options.
Its not the johnson. Heck, if it were that easy you can buy a strap on in any place that sells sex toys and everything would be fine. Its more the body of a man, wide shoulders, deep voice, secondary sexual characteristics etc., then the wingdangdoodle.
More like established a sofa cushion fort in the closet. It’s real and keeps the rain off, but it’s immature, obvious, and isn’t going to last too long.
I think Ethan got ambushed here because it looks like Joyce initiated the kiss. Yesterday she was calling to him from across the dining hall; today she is standing and leaning over the table in Ethan’s direction. I’m assuming that when Ethan got there she stood up and puckered up; what’s a poor guy supposed to do?
I agree with Bill’s assessment, since it was witnessed by Amber (and will no doubt get him grief from her). But, I had a gay bestie in school, who would always greet me with a kiss. (there was nothing ambiguous about his gayness, either)
Looking Amber right in the eye while he kisses the “girlfriend” she disapproves of? Short of actually flipping her off at the same time, it couldn’t be much more of a “fuck you” gesture.
She disapproves of Ethan using her to hide being gay, I don’t think she knows or disapproves of Joyce herself.
They had a scene outside the pizza place about it. Didn’t think it would be fair for another woman to go through what she did.
It doesn’t matter if she disapproves of Joyce or not, she disapproves of the relationship. Admittedly Rex said girlfriend as opposed to relationship, but I think that was a mistake in communication, rather than meaning.
I think its more of, he knows he shouldn’t be kissing Joyce, he should be true to himself and be gay. He also knows that Amber knows that as well and his sending him death rays.
I know we’re all *just joking,* but the jokes are getting unpleasantly real. It’s been a while since the last tar-and-feather-ing, as far as I know, but lynchings are still happening every year. As much as Ethan is pissing me the hell off, I find it ironic (in a bad way) that he’s being proposed as the victim of mob violence for a set of circumstances that stems in no small part from the fact that he spent his last year of high school being harassed for his sexuality. You all can go ahead now and inform me about my lack of a sense of humor — or just tl;dr me.
Not saying that you should be jumping on the bandwagon, but you should be aware that not everything people say here is perfectly serious, especially when everyone is obviously joking.
Except for the fact that your mother is a prostitute that gives it up to a cartoon character for a nickel. That’s totally fact.
Wow, someone says they don’t want to joke about lynchings, which are vicious acts of hateful violence that are still a problem, and your response is ‘you’re taking it too seriously and also your mom’s a whore, ha ha misogynistic joke.’ Class act.
However, as this is a comment board for a humorous comic, and lynchings don’t touch a nerve on a grand majority of people, it is okay to joke about it. It’s not like we’ve drawn up pictures or gone into great detail about it. Relax, none of us really wants to lynch anyone.
Where *is* Riley anyway? She had to move somewhere while Ethan was walking to Joyce’s table – in yesterday’s comic she was behind Amber. She would probably be visible in panel 1 today. Possibly mostly obscured by Ethan, but visible.
That maybe the coldest, most deliberate act of spite I’ve seen in this comic. Well done Sir, this comic has better writing and shows a bigger range of emotion then most programs on TV.
How can you tell the difference?
(1) disappointment to parents.
(2) lousy instincts regarding relationships.
(3) makes Amber feel like shit.
Just call (t)hem Dethan. Or Ethanny.
Dunno, he’s a better boyfriend to Joyce than some of the guys would be. She super would rather not be having sex unless I miss my guess. What is her better alternative? They love each other for some reason, we should maybe lay off. Maybe. Or perhaps just me and you guys can fudge right off to hockey games.
@saltchocolate list (nesting is weird here)
1 – Danny disappointment for lack of drive/initiative (I assume). Ethan for sexuality.
2 – Dan just wouldn’t listen to Dorothy and Joe. Ethan is running from society’s judgment of him.
3 – Yeah, Danny’s Danny there. With Ethan, she told him to come clean to Joyce before anybody was hurt. So this is shock that he’s gone back to the closet. Surprise that a good guy is doing this.
Ethan isn’t coping with what he is and how he expects society to react. Plus those delicious Chick-fil-a sandwiches.
Danny is just Danny.
True, true — I was just feeling for Amber and overstating the point. 😀
But in Ethan’s defense, he did come clean to Joyce — Amber just doesn’t know and would never guess that Joyce would be involved with him under those conditions.
A better boyfriend to Amber, you mean?
Seems Joyce knows what’s going on, and is fine with it even so. If Ethan and Joyce are both consenting … “adults”…? Then they’re fine I think. And if you determine that they’re lying to themselves, well, I realize you probably don’t respect either of them. But would you expect them to listen to a disrespectful opinion?
Ethan sucks because he knows himself but rejects his natural impulses, I guess. Danny sucks because he accepts them too much.
It’s not ignorance; it’s the result of an active and malignant misinformation/hate campaign that she hasn’t shrugged off. I’d say that’s not the same thing.
so he needs to structure his entire life around the emotions of someone else?
he’s dealing with a lot of personal shit in his life right now, and bouncing in and out of the closet is not unheard of. he’s under a tremendous amount of pressure from a lot of different people/society in general to be not-gay, and he’s not perfect. He’s a fucked up kid doing the best he can. In an ideal world he would not be under the pressure he’s under, and not feel the shame and fear that he feels. But this isn’t an ideal world, and he’s got all that heaped up on his shoulders.
And Amber went through a lot as his friend and his girlfriend, and sucks for her, but the universe doesn’t revolve around her. Painting Ethan as some evil spiteful villain because he’s kissing his girlfriend in public is just weird.
It’s not because he’s kissing Joyce; it’s because he’s giving Amber a big “Fuck you, bongo” glare while doing it, meaning he’s using Joyce as a tool to spit in Amber’s face.
So yeah – the problem is he’s structuring this kiss around (hurting) Amber’s emotions. That’s getting him a real fan club here.
In any case, a kiss where one person’s eyes are closed and the other person’s are (1) open and (2) trained on someone else is generally not a great kiss.
It could be worse; Joyce’s eyes could be open and then she sees Ethan looking away and sees Amber and gets violently jealous and beats Amber up with a pipe wrench.
Ethan, you miserable fuck. It’s not enough to kiss Joyce, you have to do while specifically glaring at Amber?
Are you trying to goad her into yelling at you, so you can earn “my ex-girlfriend is mad at my new girlfriend, I am so totally straight” points?
I can’t keep myself from staring at Amber’s gloriously rounded rack. Even with hardly any cleavage it’s breathtaking! Dear God Willis can draw the ladies.
On the upside nobody can actually see me staring so nobody can judge me. Wait – shit.
I like this Ethan! People are allowed to have flaws, ya know? It makes for a better depiction of humanity anyhow. Bring on the spiteful kisses and whatnot, it’s better than for him to have been the perfect gentleman and never hurt Joyce; then we wouldn’t get a good story.
None of them are supposed to be appealing in the sense that there is an “ideal likeable character”; everyone has flaws, and everyone can be ugly. Joe and Mike are far from appealing in my view, although you can say that they’re the more “morally upright characters”; the chivalrous sex fiend (even if Joe is technically my unrealized ideal self, the truth hurts too much) and the asshole with a moral compass.
Then you have Walky and Danny, the childish genius slacker and the well-intentioned but misguided idiot/unintentional asshole, who I feel more connected with (in that I’m a slacker and an unintentional asshole at times).
And then there’s Ethan, the self-hate filled and self-deceptive jerk whose insecurity leads him to spit in the face of his only friend who defended and fought for him in an effort to reclaim some semblance of the “normalcy” he had and thinks he must regress back towards. He’s currently my least favorite character; while I do identify with the self-hate, I could never imagine myself betraying someone so utterly like what Ethan did.
Not that there’s much in the way of appealing female characters, either. Joyce, the happy-go-lucky, misguided and manipulative child; Sarah, the PTSD’d loner with anger issues; Billie, the former stereotypical cheerleader, drunk on her “former glory” and high school social status; Ruth, the bully of an RA who manipulates and intimidates others as a means of dealing with anger issues and self-hate; Sal, the aloof “badass” with attitude problems that mask all of the sadness and jealousy; Amber, the abused and beaten girl who works out her personal issues through a literal mask and physical violence in the name of “justice”; Dorothy, who can’t really commit herself to anything after a rather badly ended relationship with Danny.
Can’t really say anything about Dina because, rather than her being “ideal”, she has barely any personality and next to no story development at all; at this point, I’d say her flaw would be that she’s literally just a bit character used to move the plot, with her social ineptitude usually played for laughs. Roz’s is also hard to determine, because her only major role in the series thus far was the mini-arc involving her and Joe’s “sex scandal”, and her political/sexual activism against an older sister who she’s lost respect in. I don’t know, maybe her and Dina’s flaws are more subtle and nuanced than how I want to describe them.
But those are just a few critical aspects of these characters; they are all much more than their flaws, just like any human being irl.
As it is often said, perfection is impossible-there is only relative likability.
On that note, character development here seems to bog most characters down with more emotional weight, which may or may not hit the Dog’s Revenge Limit.
I didn’t mean appealing in any ideal sense. Yet each of the female main characters, as broken and flawed as they may be, are balanced by some actual virtues.
First, the female cast members as a whole have had at least one experience pulling out all the stops to protect one another: the party, and keeping Joyce safe after she’d been roofied.
Amber and Sarah are courageous without peer, and Sarah arguably has the most shades of an actual ubermensch of the entire cast. Amber regularly takes on actual criminals in her night life like it ain’t no thing (never mind the clusterbomb of neuroses that led to her living like that).
Joyce is incredibly compassionate and, unlike many characters in the story, has undergone the most character development of anyone.
Ruth is receptive and grateful to care, and she’s a badass in her own right as well. Her leadership qualities are shocking considering the huge amount of shit thrown her way. Her ability to be such an effective manager and allow others to help her fix herself is a mix of traits so rare I want to call it a unicorn.
Billie is capable of recognizing when her help is most needed, and giving it. She’s slowly backing down from her alpha-bongo attitude as time goes on. If there’s someone else going through struggles she can relate to, she’ll put in a strong effort to help them out, whether it pleases her to do so or not. She freaking hated Ruth, and yet thought nothing of pulling an awesome gambit to save her life.
At least all of these girls have had moments that tested their moral backbone and won.
And all of these guys have had similar moments and were found wanting.
Joe and Mike seems to be honest about what they are and secure about it. I don’t know if women find that appealing, but I like it as a way to live life.
Walky is fairly self contained. Prior to Dorothy he just wanted to be left alone to his own devices. So not entitled as Danny. Does bring up sister’s arrest when arguing with her, but in the two cases I remember, she started being antagonistic first – once for no real reason.
So fairly neutral.
Ethan isn’t really self hating. Just having trouble dealing with being gay. Scene at Chick-fil-a says he has to give up ALL his life’s dreams (on personal life side), being married, having his own kids. Plus parent’s apparent rejection, which mom ‘justified’ because of her concerns about how life will treat him.
Using Joyce to get back into closet, which Amber warned him not to do, but driven by lose of dreams and fear. Given a pass by me for now, because of potential to come out better.
Danny, well he’s Danny. Entitled, expected life to give him stuff because he wanted it enough. No need to earn it, no need to pursue it. So lacking his own father tells him to stick with Dorothy because SHE is going places. Yeah, echoes of 50’s mom advice to daughter. He desires to be the Lois Lane of his own story.
Major loss of points here for attributes that guys shouldn’t have.
No, Mike in this continuity only seems to be a dick in terms of forcing people to confront things about themselves that they may or may not be ready for.
I’m sure that it’s forthcoming. Let’s not forget that Mike literally set up this situation through the speech he gave Ethan, which lead to Ethan’s determination to pretend to be straight. No doubt that later down the line we’ll see Mike speaking the hard truth to Ethan, changing Ethan’s mind to accept himself for who he is.
Right? I feel like tomorrow’s comic is just going to be mike standing behind them and then dropping the o-bomb once everyone’s attention has been attained.
Which is really only likable if you like Billy Bob Thornton movies, because in the real world it’s just dickery. Mike is by a wide margin my least favorite character, but that’s just me, personally.
Mike is the one sane man in that crazy world. Sees clearly and cuts to the chase.
And what, pray tell, does the real world have to do with any comic?
I’ve never seen a Billy Bob Thornton movie in my life, he has a way about him that cries for a delousing. But I did say Mike has purposeful douchery. I acknowledge the douche. I respect how he channels his douchery for the betterment of the world.
… Congratulations! You have officially won the prize for Awkwardest Kiss EVER.
The prize is a kick in the shin until you realize this is destined to failure and stop putting yourself in this stupid situation. (Personally, I don’t think it looks quite like spite, but then I’m not a good judge of facial expressions.)
And yeah, I’m thinking this kiss is more a “keep up appearances” thing, and Amber being here is just making it worse than it was already destined to be.
Hmm… I know it’s really minor, but is Ethan supposed to be looking toward Amber or away from her in panel two? The way panels two and three are placed next to each other, it looks like they’re looking at each other, but the direction Ethan is walking in would mean that he would have to turn his head the other way to see Amber.
Ethan is looking Stage Right, in the direction of Amber. These are characters in a story and don’t occupy real space, and treating them strictly as such would be narratively confusing.
For example, if I prioritized realspace over narrative in this strip, we end up with Ethan looking over his other shoulder, which either obscures his face entirely or requires a camera turn that makes him look like he’s suddenly walking the opposite direction. It’s best that he just operate by Stage directions. Folks in a play don’t interact with each other like in real life. They face the audience so we can see their expressions. When a dude talks to a guy in a play we understand they’re talking to each other even if they’re not giving eye contact.
Nicely put. An actor never turns his back to the audience except for very dramatic effect, as the audience loses facial expression, nonverbal context, etc.
Why all the hate on Ethan? JOYCE deserves just as big a chunk of it. She’s with Ethanol because she’s so out of touch with reality that she thinks all men are like Joe (and you know what? There is NOTHING wrong with Joe) and because she thinks she can keep him from temptation. She doesn’t accept or even like Ethanol for who he is, she likes him for an IDEALIZED version of him that will never exist.
I honestly hope they stay together. They deserve every ounce of misery they give each other. I just hope Amber grows enough of a spine to realize Ethanol is as crappy a friend as Danny is a love interest.
I think because Joyce’s part in this really only hurts herself and Ethan. Ethan however is now also being spiteful towards Amber with this, hence the greater hate on him.
Joyce also still doesn’t quite know what she is doing is really fucked up and wrong, whereas Ethan is well aware and is doing so in spite of this
Both of them are fully consenting adults. They get to decide who they want to date. If Ethan doesn’t want to date someone he’s attracted to, why force him? And if she’s okay with that, what’s the big deal?
The big deal is that we can see all of their flaws and self-deceptions and some of us who have personally experienced these things can relate and be angry about it. Ethan refuses to cope with his homosexuality, opting instead to regress towards a false societal standard of “normalcy”; Joyce, rather than accepting that he is gay and refusing to follow his charade, chooses to play along with a misguided sense of “religious guidance” while fulfilling her own hormone-fueled fantasies.
Yes, it’s their choice to have an unhealthy relationship, but it’s the fact that we identify and like these characters that makes us upset.
Nothing wrong with Joe? You mean it’s totally okay to pretend women don’t have any feelings, and to check out other girls as if they were sex objects, while on a date? Or how about the entire reason behind him dating Joyce, him thinking he could “fix” her, as if there’s something inherently wrong with someone who wants to wait until marriage before having sex.
Joe absolutely thinks women have feelings. He even thinks they matter – remember that he pretty specifically specified being emotionally disturbed as a time not to initiate sex. That’s a low bar on paper, but in the real world he is MILES above most folks out for a lay.
But yes, he still has his problems, and he’s still a jerk who thinks cock can fix things.
Joyce likes Ethan at least in part because of her hormones. Look back to when she hugged him after a tough day.
In fact, that is really the only justification of dating Joe and Ethan. Lust.
Also Joyce pretty much seems to get a free pass, though she has at least as many faults as the others. (Partially justified by the fact that as the main character we know more about her.)
Having a gay bf she believes she can “save” is also safe for her. Remember, for all her hormone driven decisions (Sarah warned her about Joe before their date!), Joyce is afraid of her own sexuality. A bf who really doesn’t want to have sex with her is safer than those genderless boy bands.
Personally, I’d like to at least FF to their wedding night in an alternate time line. Train wreck.
And I’m pretty sure Joyce gets a pass mostly because she’s cute and perky. (This sort of thing -with less perkiness- also works in Amber’s favor.) We all get really torqued off with Joyce when she opens her fool mouth and says something horrible, but we forget quickly, because she’s cute. If you’re a guy in this strip and do anything wrong you will never be forgiven never never never.
Ya, like I said this needs to end and I see the 10 different ways to do that and one of them is sitting rite next to Joyce (Joe please do what you do best and make this more unpleasant the best way you can)
Ethan no…please stop trying to be something your not…your alienating friends and going down a destructive path….Joyce please learn your just being an enabler and help him! be the friend he needs
On one hand, Amber was somewhat hard on him when she confronted him about what he was doing, so I can see why he’s spiting her judgement on what he’s doing. And she was giving him a pretty nasty glare too.
But *man,* considering what that means to Amber? That Ethan is fine faking a relationship with this practical stranger when just months ago she helped him deal with the fact he was gay? After he ruined her first time? And added to the heap of psychological trauma (which I assume Ethan doesn’t realize the full extent of?
Ouch. Hugs for Amber.
I want you to understand that your impending snoring has nothing to do with your sexuality–I’m actually totally cool with your being gay–but this shit you’re pulling on Ms. O’Malley? That’s gonna get you some fire from on high, because seriously, what a cock you are being. Fuck you.
Ethan may not have been able to gracefully get out of kissing the ‘in position Joyce” but he could have had the decency to put his back to Amber when he did it.
He’s looking her right in the eye, and that’s a definite “Fuck you” moment.
Amber doesn’t deserver this, especially from a “Friend”: with a friend like Ethan you don’t need enemies.
I feel for all the characters. That doesn’t keep me from thinking Ethan’s self-loathing and resentment about the facts of his life are what he thinks entitles him to be reckless with Joyce’s heart.
Ethan should google Tom Daley. They’re the same age roughly, right? Just. You know. As an example of how it *could* go.
I understand that Ethan has a shitty parental situation, but he’s digging himself into a hole of denial and self-loathing that just ain’t cute anymore. And in the meantime he’s making us all hate him, because he hurts other people with his actions. And that just can’t be his long-term plan. I am just so concerned for this child. Someone shake some sense into him, for the love of all that’s holy.
I think it help Amber to know that at least Joyce *does* know what she’s getting into. This isn’t a case of Ethan hoodwinking some innocent girl into being his beard – it’s a case of two teens making stupid decisions as they try to figure out both themselves and how they can fit in the world. While I think their relationship is a terrible idea, at least they’re going into it with honesty, or at least as honest as two people can be who practice some level of self-deception.
I may have to stop reading the comments for the Ethan parts of this storyline, though, because whereas I have a lot of sympathy and pained understanding for his situation, seeing all too many parallels to my own coming to grips with both my sexuality and what that would mean wrt today’s culture, a lot of people seem to just straight-up hate him. I get where they’re coming from, but all the same – ouch.
. . . We’ll see if I actually manage, though, because there are a lot of shiny things that pop up in Willis’s comics I don’t want to miss out on.
With respect,
No-one who’s opinion you should value will judge you on minor typos.
Props for the effort though 🙂
I agree (In that I think people should lay off Ethan a bit),
What two people do is their own business, and you can offer advice, maybe even hold judgement, but for the love of all that is good, you HOLD that judgement, as your own.
(That said, the DoA Community is fantastically non-judgmental)
No-one is perfect, and we all need to learn.
Sometimes that means getting hurt. 🙂
Having said that, I hope they learn soon.
Willis is doing a fantastic job of making this story arch feel like a slow-mo train crash…
I wonder what it says that we can’t look away.
Amber, stressed out from a summer of standing up for her ex-boyfriend and best friend to his parents after Amber and Ethan discovered he was gay in the hotel room after prom, pretty much abandoned Ethan to Mike’s (not so tender) mercy once they began college. In response to Mike’s sarcastic “the closet’s still there” speech, Ethan decided this was a great idea and began dating Joyce. Amber, whose heart was broken that night in the hotel room after prom, had it out with Ethan in front of Galasso’s Pizza and Subs when she saw Ethan there on a double date as Joyce’s boyfriend. Ethan brought up the abandonment thing, and Amber brought up how hard that summer had been on her and how she needed some stress-free space and time.
Since then, Ethan has come clean with Joyce, though they’re determined to man this ship right into the iceberg. Amber doesn’t know this and is thus angry with Ethan. Ethan is, presumably, still unhappy with Amber not being around and being judgmental of his captaining a ship with less likely survivors than the Titanic.
Ah, but the reason Amber attacked him was that in the course of “comforting” her, Ethan got extremely judgmental of the fact that she hadn’t been open with the RA and the other girls on the floor that she had an abusive father who was dangerous to her, which she has hidden for reasons of:
1.) she is determined to suborn all psychological issues, esp. those resulting from her abuse by Blaine, into Amazi-Girl’s Amazi-Box of It’s Not Crazy If It’s JUSTICE
2.) she doesn’t want to be solely recognized or stigmatized for her abusive father, in precisely the same way Ethan doesn’t want to be solely recognized or stigmatized for his homosexuality.
So she rather justifiably told him what she thought of him being the Pot to her Kettle.
Neither really realizes they are both made of cast iron stupid in this case.
I wants to see Sarah’s face while that’s going on >.> Also, I wonder if Ethan would have the balls to kiss her out of spite if Mike were there. I kinda want to think Mike would have something to pop up with.
Ethan is lucky that Sarah doesn’t have her baseball bat with her. Joyce is fine with a basically non-sexual relationship, but everyone else watching is going to be less fine with the entire situation.
Though it helps to remember that the Joyce/Ethan ship is only about a week old in their time. We just have had months to wait for it to explode.
On a different topic, the banner ad for the Webcomic Rampage features a smiling Danny/AG. From the banner to the creator’s ears. AG could use a little happy time. Hope that its from a radiant future and not a flashback.
OUCH. Dude, that’s cold. Dumping her because you realized you were gay, then turning right back around and going out with another girl is bad enough. But kissing the new one, while making full eye contact with your heartbroken friend?
I just don’t see the spite. Is he uncomfortable and angry at her because she’s making him think about how wrong what he’s doing is? Sure. But spite would mean he’s kissing Joyce IN ORDER TO make Amber feel bad. I think he’s kissing her because he “wants” to, and is glaring at her because she’s making him feel bad about it.
Ethan definitely knows about Amber’s feelings towards him. If it was a smooch in private and Amber barged in, that’s one thing. But he’s openly kissing her in public in front of her to make a point. He’s definitely doing this to spite her.
Not sure who I’m more peeved at right now, Ethan or Joyce. One of them should dump the other, but I’m not sure which fallout would be worse.
Just on an artistic note, unrelated to anything going on in the plot, who or what is Ethan looking at in panel 2? Joyce is in front of him and Amber is to his right, bur Ethan is looking to the left in that panel.
For those of you who don’t see the spite in Ethans face. Read their expressions like Amber is trying to warn him away from kissing Joyce and he’s basically saying “You can’t stop me, you can’t do anything about this. Well, you could out me, but you’re not going to do that? Are you Amber?”
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Awkward….
Almost as awkward as walking in on your grandparents having sex.
especially awkward considering all my grandparents have been dead for years.
So would you quickly close the door or ask them how they’re alive?
I think I would give them their privacy first… by running and screaming at the contrary direction…
Enter the room, scream and wail your arms about then jump out the closed window without hurting yourself, that’s what vamps do 🙂
But not quite as awkward as walking in on your grandparents having foreplay.
Yes, I imagine seeing your grandfather in a french maid outfit must be quite horrifying.
That would be the worst!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV6GeMSRyHU
I’m… I’m scared to click this…
I FEEL NO FEAR! *click*
There are only two possibilities: either it’s a elderly man in a french maid outfit, or it’s the Rick Astley song “Never Gonna Give You Up”.
I’m not going to confirm this first hand.
That Ragu commercial is relatable to Cragalanch
Almost as awkward as being walked in on whilst copying my junk, I mean what?
Like cloning? Junk cloning?
He’ll corner the hot dog market!
Actually I was thinking they just got this neat attachment, click..click… wrrrrrrrrrr.
I think it’s more of a case of awkward like your grandparents watching you have sex with the girl they warned you away from.
Or walking on your grandparents having sex with the girl they warned you away from.
Or walking on Mike having sex with your grandparents for a nickel.
And you quickly realise it’s grandpa-on-grandpa / grandma-on-grandma.
or grandma and the family dog.
Oh yes. So deliciously awkward.
AWKWARD LIKE THE HOTEL ROOM AFTER PROM
Wait…WHAT??!?!?!?
Well at least he is thinking of a woman when kissing Joyce, instead of her brother.
Spite kissing is like the watered down version of revenge fucks.
Maybe metaphorically. Literally, there’s a fair bit of slobber involved.
I imagine it would take more than just a fair bit of slobber to water down a revenge fuck to the point that it became just Spite kissing.
Her *sister.
I’m curious if that is only a writing identity, cross-dressing, or what.
None the less, he would prefer Joyce with a johnson.
Word of God has pretty firmly established that Jocelyne is a woman.
Ah, I had read nothing except DoA. Was that in the twitter fed on the side, or are there interviews and such?
Does that mean Jocelyn lives as a cross-dresser or is going the surgical route?
She’s transgendered, as far as I’m aware.
It was pretty clearly in the plot a matter of ‘she is a woman’. Like, she says “I’m not gay” after displaying clear interest in Ethan, and sends him her address, and it is addressed to Jocelyn. Not a high bar of ‘connect the dots’ here.
Sure, except that could mean cross dressing, second identity, or undergoing gender reassignment surgery.
I remember that arc, but identifying as a woman doesn’t necessarily mean any one of those options.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/writer/#comments
Search for “identifies as female” and here you have the Word of God.
Except it doesn’t. Why are you even arguing this?
It’s “weird” how deliberately obtuse some folks suddenly get in regards to Jocelyne.
‘Lives as a crossdresser’…?
If by “crossdresser” you mean “a woman who dresses as a man so her parents don’t know”, then yes, she’s a crossdresser.
Its not the johnson. Heck, if it were that easy you can buy a strap on in any place that sells sex toys and everything would be fine. Its more the body of a man, wide shoulders, deep voice, secondary sexual characteristics etc., then the wingdangdoodle.
Or maybe it’s the simple fact that she’s a girl and Ethan likes boys.
For real.
It looks like he’s drinking her face.
We can’t see it, but Amber’s reaction isn’t just because of Ethan walking back into the closet.
More like established a permanent home in the closet.
And that he gets as defensive about his neurotic rationalizations as the 1st Ethan. That too.
More like established a sofa cushion fort in the closet. It’s real and keeps the rain off, but it’s immature, obvious, and isn’t going to last too long.
Oh woah! Sofa cushion forts are amazing! Keep it up Ethan!….
……What were we talking about again?
Ethan redefines hate based affection.
That right there? An Epic Spite Kiss.
Is it definitely spite? Could he have possibly left Joyce hanging there with a pucker rising off her face?
I think Ethan got ambushed here because it looks like Joyce initiated the kiss. Yesterday she was calling to him from across the dining hall; today she is standing and leaning over the table in Ethan’s direction. I’m assuming that when Ethan got there she stood up and puckered up; what’s a poor guy supposed to do?
I agree with Bill’s assessment, since it was witnessed by Amber (and will no doubt get him grief from her). But, I had a gay bestie in school, who would always greet me with a kiss. (there was nothing ambiguous about his gayness, either)
Look at his eyes. He’s not looking at or thinking about Joyce; he’s looking back at Amber and thinking, “Suck on this, judgmental bongo.”
I don’t think it’s spite toward Amber. He already knew last strip that she’d see and judge.
Spite toward society that is making this so difficult? That’s more like running back into the closet and hiding in the corner behind the golf clubs.
I do have to wonder what Sarah is thinking. She already confronted him about being gay while ‘dating’ Joyce.
Ethan you spiteful bastard.
I’m not seeing the spite.
It’s in panel 5. Very high concentrations in the eyebrow.
Looking Amber right in the eye while he kisses the “girlfriend” she disapproves of? Short of actually flipping her off at the same time, it couldn’t be much more of a “fuck you” gesture.
She disapproves of Ethan using her to hide being gay, I don’t think she knows or disapproves of Joyce herself.
They had a scene outside the pizza place about it. Didn’t think it would be fair for another woman to go through what she did.
It doesn’t matter if she disapproves of Joyce or not, she disapproves of the relationship. Admittedly Rex said girlfriend as opposed to relationship, but I think that was a mistake in communication, rather than meaning.
To me it seems more like being unable to take his eye off the leopard that’s staring at him.
I think its more of, he knows he shouldn’t be kissing Joyce, he should be true to himself and be gay. He also knows that Amber knows that as well and his sending him death rays.
Geez.
Gods I want to stab this continuity’s Ethan.
Pitchforks! Get your pitchforks here! Pitchforks five dollars!
Got any torches?
What about tar? I’ve already got feathers, but I need tar for this.
Sorry, I’m just the pitchfork guy, though I do have a pleasing selection of other stabby items for the inner mob in you!
Get your tar here! Free torch with every 10 gallon purchase.
This week on Tabletop, Lynch Mob of Catan!
I know we’re all *just joking,* but the jokes are getting unpleasantly real. It’s been a while since the last tar-and-feather-ing, as far as I know, but lynchings are still happening every year. As much as Ethan is pissing me the hell off, I find it ironic (in a bad way) that he’s being proposed as the victim of mob violence for a set of circumstances that stems in no small part from the fact that he spent his last year of high school being harassed for his sexuality. You all can go ahead now and inform me about my lack of a sense of humor — or just tl;dr me.
salt chocolate is now my favorite
Thanks, ganon! It’s good not to be alone.
sometimes it is, but when ganon’s on your side, who knows what will happen to all the Links you like…?
Not saying that you should be jumping on the bandwagon, but you should be aware that not everything people say here is perfectly serious, especially when everyone is obviously joking.
Except for the fact that your mother is a prostitute that gives it up to a cartoon character for a nickel. That’s totally fact.
Wow, someone says they don’t want to joke about lynchings, which are vicious acts of hateful violence that are still a problem, and your response is ‘you’re taking it too seriously and also your mom’s a whore, ha ha misogynistic joke.’ Class act.
However, as this is a comment board for a humorous comic, and lynchings don’t touch a nerve on a grand majority of people, it is okay to joke about it. It’s not like we’ve drawn up pictures or gone into great detail about it. Relax, none of us really wants to lynch anyone.
I do honestly wish I could punch him really hard in the arm, tho.
Yeah, outside of the parents, Ethan has been probably my leading “wish to punch in face” candidate. This further his lead in that category.
OH GOD THEY’RE SUCKING ON EACH OTHER LIKE STRAWS
Oh, Ethan Sucks alright.
Does he? I don’t think he gets the opportunity that often.
That’s an odd taco-eating angle, Amber
that’s because it’s a hamburger
Isn’t a taco just an American hamburger?
Did you mean: Isn’t a hamburger just an American taco?
Isn’t a taco a mexican hamburger?
It’s funny ’cause hamburgers are not American
Why is it called a hamburger when it contains no ham? Horse maybe but no ham.
It’s named after a german city called Hamburg.
“It’s chopped steak! And what’s better on steak than A-1?”
They were created in America to appeal to German immigrants.i
^ for the first time in my DoA career im saying damn it willis for something other than his cartoon. DAMN IT WILLIS, YOU BEAT ME TO IT!
My hand held meat with carbohydrate exterior and vegetable garnishes are citizens of the world.
Both are just hastily and lazily assembled dumplings.
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW.
Ummm… he drew it…
Aaaaaaaand Ethan drops a few more notches. At this rate I’ll dislike him more than Ruth in only a couple more weeks.
I told y’all Ethan was a huge dick. fuck dat dude. Legitimately.
I hated Ethan before it was cool.
Oh, fuck you Ethan.
Seconded.
Thirded.
Fourth’d
why does everyone want to fuck Ethan. I much prefer Billy, at least she would enjoy it without feeling guilty (plus, super cute)
I mean Billie.
Him and Amber really need to drop this stupid “I CAN HURT ME MORE THAN YOU CAN HURT ME” fight they’re having.
Oh my god, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING. And you’re right, Ethanol and Amber totally need to drop it.
This wasn’t what I had in mind when I said Amber deserves a break, Willis. Geeeeeeze. Why do you hate Amber so much!
Why do I suddenly have this odd feeling that criminals in the area around the college are going to be extra beat-up tonight?
They will not have any bones left after littering.
I concur Amber. That IS super gross.
PDAs are so ew!
THIS.
Quick, lets get back to Riley and Dina.
I second that motion!
The more Dina & Riley…the better!!!
Where *is* Riley anyway? She had to move somewhere while Ethan was walking to Joyce’s table – in yesterday’s comic she was behind Amber. She would probably be visible in panel 1 today. Possibly mostly obscured by Ethan, but visible.
That maybe the coldest, most deliberate act of spite I’ve seen in this comic. Well done Sir, this comic has better writing and shows a bigger range of emotion then most programs on TV.
…Blaine invading Amber’s room and telling her about how he used to beat her mother up?
That was emotional abuse, this is spite.
Well good point but she knows hes a major douche whereas Ethan is supposed to be her friend
Amber DOES NOT deserve this! First Danny, now Ethan. Damn you, Willis!
ALL IN FAVOR OF MAKING ETHAN THE NEW DANNY?
AYE.
DOUBLE AYE!
How can you tell the difference?
(1) disappointment to parents.
(2) lousy instincts regarding relationships.
(3) makes Amber feel like shit.
Just call (t)hem Dethan. Or Ethanny.
The only difference is Danny is somehow a better boyfriend. And that’s SAD.
It was a feat long thought impossible.
Danny actually dates people he’s into.
Although he’s apparently into anyone except Billie…
No, he would totally be into Billie if she was Amazi-Girl.
He’s Amazisexual.
Single-Target Sexuality Tropemarked.
+1, Varangian!
Damn.
Could you imagine if Ethan, the guy who isn’t even attracted to girls, was a better boyfriend than Danny? It would be hella ironic.
…well, a better boyfriend to women. Time will tell how good a boyfriend Ethan is to dudes. Unless it doesn’t because he remains like this forever.
Dunno, he’s a better boyfriend to Joyce than some of the guys would be. She super would rather not be having sex unless I miss my guess. What is her better alternative? They love each other for some reason, we should maybe lay off. Maybe. Or perhaps just me and you guys can fudge right off to hockey games.
@saltchocolate list (nesting is weird here)
1 – Danny disappointment for lack of drive/initiative (I assume). Ethan for sexuality.
2 – Dan just wouldn’t listen to Dorothy and Joe. Ethan is running from society’s judgment of him.
3 – Yeah, Danny’s Danny there. With Ethan, she told him to come clean to Joyce before anybody was hurt. So this is shock that he’s gone back to the closet. Surprise that a good guy is doing this.
Ethan isn’t coping with what he is and how he expects society to react. Plus those delicious Chick-fil-a sandwiches.
Danny is just Danny.
True, true — I was just feeling for Amber and overstating the point. 😀
But in Ethan’s defense, he did come clean to Joyce — Amber just doesn’t know and would never guess that Joyce would be involved with him under those conditions.
A better boyfriend to Amber, you mean?
Seems Joyce knows what’s going on, and is fine with it even so. If Ethan and Joyce are both consenting … “adults”…? Then they’re fine I think. And if you determine that they’re lying to themselves, well, I realize you probably don’t respect either of them. But would you expect them to listen to a disrespectful opinion?
Ethan sucks because he knows himself but rejects his natural impulses, I guess. Danny sucks because he accepts them too much.
Deathan?
Not to be confused with Dethany from that fast rack.
Aye!
Aye. This is just sad.
Aye.
Nay!
he is not Danny…he is worse then a Danny.
He is the Super Danny.
your gravitar doesnt fit in well with the sentiment of your comment.
I hope this charade ends soon. I want to see Ethan getting into dating guys (preferably Drew but with less douchiness).
The only person who’s douchiness has decreased in DoA is Sarah.
I dunno; Dina is either par or nicer here because she hasn’t tried to mind control anybody using alcohol poisoning.
Also Linda Walkerton. Yeah, she’s a douche to Sal in this continuity, but she takes it just a hair further in It’s Walky.
And on that subject Dexter seems pretty okay here too.
Is this really a spiteful kiss, or is he just afraid Amber’s going to expose his lies? I’ve got dibs on fearful or guilty kiss, not spiteful.
Doesn’t matter what type of kiss it was, it was the fact he kissed her knowing how it’d make Amber feel
If he didn’t kiss her, how would Joyce feel?
Like her attempt to ungay her self-hating boyfriend is failing? She already knows he likes dudes.
Yeah, but she thinks she can beat gay. Because she’s ignorant.
It’s not ignorance; it’s the result of an active and malignant misinformation/hate campaign that she hasn’t shrugged off. I’d say that’s not the same thing.
so he needs to structure his entire life around the emotions of someone else?
he’s dealing with a lot of personal shit in his life right now, and bouncing in and out of the closet is not unheard of. he’s under a tremendous amount of pressure from a lot of different people/society in general to be not-gay, and he’s not perfect. He’s a fucked up kid doing the best he can. In an ideal world he would not be under the pressure he’s under, and not feel the shame and fear that he feels. But this isn’t an ideal world, and he’s got all that heaped up on his shoulders.
And Amber went through a lot as his friend and his girlfriend, and sucks for her, but the universe doesn’t revolve around her. Painting Ethan as some evil spiteful villain because he’s kissing his girlfriend in public is just weird.
It’s not because he’s kissing Joyce; it’s because he’s giving Amber a big “Fuck you, bongo” glare while doing it, meaning he’s using Joyce as a tool to spit in Amber’s face.
So yeah – the problem is he’s structuring this kiss around (hurting) Amber’s emotions. That’s getting him a real fan club here.
This! That’s why I am not making Ethan into a douchecanoe.
I don’t think he’s afraid Amber will expose him. He’s aware she knows and will judge him. That’s what the hesitation yesterday was about.
I’m telling you, that is a spite kiss. Ethan’s eyebrow has spite written all over it.
In any case, a kiss where one person’s eyes are closed and the other person’s are (1) open and (2) trained on someone else is generally not a great kiss.
It could be worse; Joyce’s eyes could be open and then she sees Ethan looking away and sees Amber and gets violently jealous and beats Amber up with a pipe wrench.
So yeah; could be worse.
That would be worse.
Ethan, you miserable fuck. It’s not enough to kiss Joyce, you have to do while specifically glaring at Amber?
Are you trying to goad her into yelling at you, so you can earn “my ex-girlfriend is mad at my new girlfriend, I am so totally straight” points?
I think it’s more like he was gonna kiss her anyway, but he can’t help but.acknowledge Amber’s hairy eyeball.
Btw, is it wrong that my main reaction to this scene was attraction to Amber (awkwardness is hot!) and her “large posterior”?
I can’t keep myself from staring at Amber’s gloriously rounded rack. Even with hardly any cleavage it’s breathtaking! Dear God Willis can draw the ladies.
On the upside nobody can actually see me staring so nobody can judge me. Wait – shit.
Haha, you show her, Ethan.
Also, I like how Dina is just sitting there behind them.
At this point I dislike this universes Ethan than I hate Roomies’ Danny. Jesus fuck.
I like this Ethan! People are allowed to have flaws, ya know? It makes for a better depiction of humanity anyhow. Bring on the spiteful kisses and whatnot, it’s better than for him to have been the perfect gentleman and never hurt Joyce; then we wouldn’t get a good story.
Aw fuck, I’m Ethan. I don’t actually want to be Ethan.
Is it okay if I don’t like him, but I like that I don’t like him?
So how many appealing male characters are in this strip, anywho? Besides Joe and Mike.
There’s, um… Jacob? Do we have any reason to complain about the Dean?
Nepotism and right wing politics. He snores in his sleep.
Oh, please, Deany is such an a$$401€. Now to see how many of those characters survive the filtering process of the comments software.
Walky!
Walky’s kind of a dick too. Whether it’s a funny kind or an irritating kind varies depending on the reader.
Walky’s skirting the edge of respectability with his recent conversation with Sal…although he’s head and shoulders above the rest of the male cast.
Walky’s a lot less deliberate about his assery too…which is good? I guess? Maybe?
I’d say Walky too. He’s definitely a jackass, but it’s not like the people he’s a jackass to are any better by comparison.
There’s Tony!
And Ron!
I’m sure if either of them got more screen time they’d quickly fall into unlikeable territory.
What if their screentime involved them making out?
Depends on who they’re spiteglaring at while they do it.
Ethan’s mom.
Jacob
Wait, Joe and Mike are appealing now?
None of them are supposed to be appealing in the sense that there is an “ideal likeable character”; everyone has flaws, and everyone can be ugly. Joe and Mike are far from appealing in my view, although you can say that they’re the more “morally upright characters”; the chivalrous sex fiend (even if Joe is technically my unrealized ideal self, the truth hurts too much) and the asshole with a moral compass.
Then you have Walky and Danny, the childish genius slacker and the well-intentioned but misguided idiot/unintentional asshole, who I feel more connected with (in that I’m a slacker and an unintentional asshole at times).
And then there’s Ethan, the self-hate filled and self-deceptive jerk whose insecurity leads him to spit in the face of his only friend who defended and fought for him in an effort to reclaim some semblance of the “normalcy” he had and thinks he must regress back towards. He’s currently my least favorite character; while I do identify with the self-hate, I could never imagine myself betraying someone so utterly like what Ethan did.
Not that there’s much in the way of appealing female characters, either. Joyce, the happy-go-lucky, misguided and manipulative child; Sarah, the PTSD’d loner with anger issues; Billie, the former stereotypical cheerleader, drunk on her “former glory” and high school social status; Ruth, the bully of an RA who manipulates and intimidates others as a means of dealing with anger issues and self-hate; Sal, the aloof “badass” with attitude problems that mask all of the sadness and jealousy; Amber, the abused and beaten girl who works out her personal issues through a literal mask and physical violence in the name of “justice”; Dorothy, who can’t really commit herself to anything after a rather badly ended relationship with Danny.
Can’t really say anything about Dina because, rather than her being “ideal”, she has barely any personality and next to no story development at all; at this point, I’d say her flaw would be that she’s literally just a bit character used to move the plot, with her social ineptitude usually played for laughs. Roz’s is also hard to determine, because her only major role in the series thus far was the mini-arc involving her and Joe’s “sex scandal”, and her political/sexual activism against an older sister who she’s lost respect in. I don’t know, maybe her and Dina’s flaws are more subtle and nuanced than how I want to describe them.
But those are just a few critical aspects of these characters; they are all much more than their flaws, just like any human being irl.
As it is often said, perfection is impossible-there is only relative likability.
On that note, character development here seems to bog most characters down with more emotional weight, which may or may not hit the Dog’s Revenge Limit.
I didn’t mean appealing in any ideal sense. Yet each of the female main characters, as broken and flawed as they may be, are balanced by some actual virtues.
First, the female cast members as a whole have had at least one experience pulling out all the stops to protect one another: the party, and keeping Joyce safe after she’d been roofied.
Amber and Sarah are courageous without peer, and Sarah arguably has the most shades of an actual ubermensch of the entire cast. Amber regularly takes on actual criminals in her night life like it ain’t no thing (never mind the clusterbomb of neuroses that led to her living like that).
Joyce is incredibly compassionate and, unlike many characters in the story, has undergone the most character development of anyone.
Ruth is receptive and grateful to care, and she’s a badass in her own right as well. Her leadership qualities are shocking considering the huge amount of shit thrown her way. Her ability to be such an effective manager and allow others to help her fix herself is a mix of traits so rare I want to call it a unicorn.
Billie is capable of recognizing when her help is most needed, and giving it. She’s slowly backing down from her alpha-bongo attitude as time goes on. If there’s someone else going through struggles she can relate to, she’ll put in a strong effort to help them out, whether it pleases her to do so or not. She freaking hated Ruth, and yet thought nothing of pulling an awesome gambit to save her life.
At least all of these girls have had moments that tested their moral backbone and won.
And all of these guys have had similar moments and were found wanting.
Joe and Mike seems to be honest about what they are and secure about it. I don’t know if women find that appealing, but I like it as a way to live life.
Walky is fairly self contained. Prior to Dorothy he just wanted to be left alone to his own devices. So not entitled as Danny. Does bring up sister’s arrest when arguing with her, but in the two cases I remember, she started being antagonistic first – once for no real reason.
So fairly neutral.
Ethan isn’t really self hating. Just having trouble dealing with being gay. Scene at Chick-fil-a says he has to give up ALL his life’s dreams (on personal life side), being married, having his own kids. Plus parent’s apparent rejection, which mom ‘justified’ because of her concerns about how life will treat him.
Using Joyce to get back into closet, which Amber warned him not to do, but driven by lose of dreams and fear. Given a pass by me for now, because of potential to come out better.
Danny, well he’s Danny. Entitled, expected life to give him stuff because he wanted it enough. No need to earn it, no need to pursue it. So lacking his own father tells him to stick with Dorothy because SHE is going places. Yeah, echoes of 50’s mom advice to daughter. He desires to be the Lois Lane of his own story.
Major loss of points here for attributes that guys shouldn’t have.
“Major loss of points here for attributes that guys shouldn’t have.”
This isn’t sexist at all!
Just kidding. It totally is.
Really Ethan that was just off the Mike scale of douchery
No, Mike in this continuity only seems to be a dick in terms of forcing people to confront things about themselves that they may or may not be ready for.
Which is why I’m surprised he is nowhere to be found at this moment to fuck up Ethan’s spite kiss.
I’m sure that it’s forthcoming. Let’s not forget that Mike literally set up this situation through the speech he gave Ethan, which lead to Ethan’s determination to pretend to be straight. No doubt that later down the line we’ll see Mike speaking the hard truth to Ethan, changing Ethan’s mind to accept himself for who he is.
Mike plays the long game.
Pretty sure this was a foul ball for Mike. He tried pointing out Ethan’s stupidity via sarcasm and instead Ethan went right ahead and did it.
Mike is powerful, but not omnipotent. He can only do so much assholery
Right? I feel like tomorrow’s comic is just going to be mike standing behind them and then dropping the o-bomb once everyone’s attention has been attained.
Mike life coaches. He has directed douchery that helps improve others.
Which is really only likable if you like Billy Bob Thornton movies, because in the real world it’s just dickery. Mike is by a wide margin my least favorite character, but that’s just me, personally.
Mike is the one sane man in that crazy world. Sees clearly and cuts to the chase.
And what, pray tell, does the real world have to do with any comic?
I’ve never seen a Billy Bob Thornton movie in my life, he has a way about him that cries for a delousing. But I did say Mike has purposeful douchery. I acknowledge the douche. I respect how he channels his douchery for the betterment of the world.
Mike is like all three ghosts from A Christmas Carol, at the same time.
And he’s alive. I think.
+7. And an internet.
Well, I hate Ethan more than ever. We need something to tip the balance again…where’s Mike when you need him?
I feel you, Amber.
And then Ethan stabbed Amber in the feels
… Congratulations! You have officially won the prize for Awkwardest Kiss EVER.
The prize is a kick in the shin until you realize this is destined to failure and stop putting yourself in this stupid situation. (Personally, I don’t think it looks quite like spite, but then I’m not a good judge of facial expressions.)
I must know what snack you are having.
I’m pretty much posting up and down why I agree with you, so nothing wrong with your read (according to me).
Hot cocoa and chips.
And yeah, I’m thinking this kiss is more a “keep up appearances” thing, and Amber being here is just making it worse than it was already destined to be.
I think it looked like fear, myself.
That is a really weird looking kiss. Their mouths are like anteater mouths or something.
Hmm… I know it’s really minor, but is Ethan supposed to be looking toward Amber or away from her in panel two? The way panels two and three are placed next to each other, it looks like they’re looking at each other, but the direction Ethan is walking in would mean that he would have to turn his head the other way to see Amber.
Ethan is looking Stage Right, in the direction of Amber. These are characters in a story and don’t occupy real space, and treating them strictly as such would be narratively confusing.
For example, if I prioritized realspace over narrative in this strip, we end up with Ethan looking over his other shoulder, which either obscures his face entirely or requires a camera turn that makes him look like he’s suddenly walking the opposite direction. It’s best that he just operate by Stage directions. Folks in a play don’t interact with each other like in real life. They face the audience so we can see their expressions. When a dude talks to a guy in a play we understand they’re talking to each other even if they’re not giving eye contact.
Nicely put. An actor never turns his back to the audience except for very dramatic effect, as the audience loses facial expression, nonverbal context, etc.
Why all the hate on Ethan? JOYCE deserves just as big a chunk of it. She’s with Ethanol because she’s so out of touch with reality that she thinks all men are like Joe (and you know what? There is NOTHING wrong with Joe) and because she thinks she can keep him from temptation. She doesn’t accept or even like Ethanol for who he is, she likes him for an IDEALIZED version of him that will never exist.
I honestly hope they stay together. They deserve every ounce of misery they give each other. I just hope Amber grows enough of a spine to realize Ethanol is as crappy a friend as Danny is a love interest.
“Ethanol”
That is an incredible nickname. I will start calling him this as often as possible.
I think “Ethanol” should be the name for Ethan/Billie shipping.
(Though I don’t think anyone does that except maybe Billie herself.)
Adding Ethanol to your ship will cause knocking to occur.
What type of knocking… boots?
I think because Joyce’s part in this really only hurts herself and Ethan. Ethan however is now also being spiteful towards Amber with this, hence the greater hate on him.
Joyce also still doesn’t quite know what she is doing is really fucked up and wrong, whereas Ethan is well aware and is doing so in spite of this
Exactly what is so wrong about what she’s doing?
Both of them are fully consenting adults. They get to decide who they want to date. If Ethan doesn’t want to date someone he’s attracted to, why force him? And if she’s okay with that, what’s the big deal?
The big deal is that we can see all of their flaws and self-deceptions and some of us who have personally experienced these things can relate and be angry about it. Ethan refuses to cope with his homosexuality, opting instead to regress towards a false societal standard of “normalcy”; Joyce, rather than accepting that he is gay and refusing to follow his charade, chooses to play along with a misguided sense of “religious guidance” while fulfilling her own hormone-fueled fantasies.
Yes, it’s their choice to have an unhealthy relationship, but it’s the fact that we identify and like these characters that makes us upset.
Well you could argue Ethanol (great name) is using Joyce as a beard, using her naivety
He is, but her naivety is religious. She believes she can ‘turn’ him.
The only way Joyce will be able to turn him is if she became a vampire.
Nothing wrong with Joe? You mean it’s totally okay to pretend women don’t have any feelings, and to check out other girls as if they were sex objects, while on a date? Or how about the entire reason behind him dating Joyce, him thinking he could “fix” her, as if there’s something inherently wrong with someone who wants to wait until marriage before having sex.
Joe absolutely thinks women have feelings. He even thinks they matter – remember that he pretty specifically specified being emotionally disturbed as a time not to initiate sex. That’s a low bar on paper, but in the real world he is MILES above most folks out for a lay.
But yes, he still has his problems, and he’s still a jerk who thinks cock can fix things.
Joyce likes Ethan at least in part because of her hormones. Look back to when she hugged him after a tough day.
In fact, that is really the only justification of dating Joe and Ethan. Lust.
Also Joyce pretty much seems to get a free pass, though she has at least as many faults as the others. (Partially justified by the fact that as the main character we know more about her.)
Having a gay bf she believes she can “save” is also safe for her. Remember, for all her hormone driven decisions (Sarah warned her about Joe before their date!), Joyce is afraid of her own sexuality. A bf who really doesn’t want to have sex with her is safer than those genderless boy bands.
Personally, I’d like to at least FF to their wedding night in an alternate time line. Train wreck.
I’m pretty sure Sierra is the main character.
And I’m pretty sure Joyce gets a pass mostly because she’s cute and perky. (This sort of thing -with less perkiness- also works in Amber’s favor.) We all get really torqued off with Joyce when she opens her fool mouth and says something horrible, but we forget quickly, because she’s cute. If you’re a guy in this strip and do anything wrong you will never be forgiven never never never.
Good point.
There is so something wrong with Joe – the way he makes me feel envious and personally inadequate. The bastard.
Ya, like I said this needs to end and I see the 10 different ways to do that and one of them is sitting rite next to Joyce (Joe please do what you do best and make this more unpleasant the best way you can)
What a slap in the face to Amber. Ethan is now my least favorite character.
Ethan no…please stop trying to be something your not…your alienating friends and going down a destructive path….Joyce please learn your just being an enabler and help him! be the friend he needs
damnit, i used to be Ethan…now i’m joyce -_-
This can only lead to good things.
You know, Joyce doesn’t seem to be enjoying that kiss any more than Ethan…
Awkward angle for a kiss. Also, damn.
Oh. Ethan. Honey. No…
I realize it’s an age for making bad decisions, but no, honey. Just… No…
On one hand, Amber was somewhat hard on him when she confronted him about what he was doing, so I can see why he’s spiting her judgement on what he’s doing. And she was giving him a pretty nasty glare too.
But *man,* considering what that means to Amber? That Ethan is fine faking a relationship with this practical stranger when just months ago she helped him deal with the fact he was gay? After he ruined her first time? And added to the heap of psychological trauma (which I assume Ethan doesn’t realize the full extent of?
Ouch. Hugs for Amber.
“Dear Ethan,
I want you to understand that your impending snoring has nothing to do with your sexuality–I’m actually totally cool with your being gay–but this shit you’re pulling on Ms. O’Malley? That’s gonna get you some fire from on high, because seriously, what a cock you are being. Fuck you.
–YHWH”
…and autocorrect somehow decides that “smiting” is “snoring”.
Oh well.
Also, fuck you, Ethan. You are a cockwaffle.
Autocorrect should rewrite the Bible. All sinners get narcolepsy.
This is the first time in their relationship that Ethan has kissed Joyce without thinking about a man!
Ethan may not have been able to gracefully get out of kissing the ‘in position Joyce” but he could have had the decency to put his back to Amber when he did it.
He’s looking her right in the eye, and that’s a definite “Fuck you” moment.
Amber doesn’t deserver this, especially from a “Friend”: with a friend like Ethan you don’t need enemies.
Someone else said that it looked more like Ethan was watching the leopard that was watching him.
I feel like the only one who has any pity for Ethan here. He has to have a crapload self-loathing going on, trying to repress his sexuality.
Amber is against him changing himself, so he’s projecting his own hesitance and frustration onto her.
Oh, I pity him, but that doesn’t stop me from being reactionary. <_<
Nah, it’s not just you.
I feel for all the characters. That doesn’t keep me from thinking Ethan’s self-loathing and resentment about the facts of his life are what he thinks entitles him to be reckless with Joyce’s heart.
Considering the way Amber attacked Ethan when he was just trying to help her? She deserves it.
Yes, Amber is the one who suffers as Ethan digs himself deeper into this.
Maybe if Amber hadn’t attacked Ethan when they last spoke?
Ethan should google Tom Daley. They’re the same age roughly, right? Just. You know. As an example of how it *could* go.
I understand that Ethan has a shitty parental situation, but he’s digging himself into a hole of denial and self-loathing that just ain’t cute anymore. And in the meantime he’s making us all hate him, because he hurts other people with his actions. And that just can’t be his long-term plan. I am just so concerned for this child. Someone shake some sense into him, for the love of all that’s holy.
I think it help Amber to know that at least Joyce *does* know what she’s getting into. This isn’t a case of Ethan hoodwinking some innocent girl into being his beard – it’s a case of two teens making stupid decisions as they try to figure out both themselves and how they can fit in the world. While I think their relationship is a terrible idea, at least they’re going into it with honesty, or at least as honest as two people can be who practice some level of self-deception.
I may have to stop reading the comments for the Ethan parts of this storyline, though, because whereas I have a lot of sympathy and pained understanding for his situation, seeing all too many parallels to my own coming to grips with both my sexuality and what that would mean wrt today’s culture, a lot of people seem to just straight-up hate him. I get where they’re coming from, but all the same – ouch.
. . . We’ll see if I actually manage, though, because there are a lot of shiny things that pop up in Willis’s comics I don’t want to miss out on.
I think it might help Amber*
shiny things that pop up in the comments of Willis’s comics*
Someday, I will submit all comments without errors and words missing. Today is not that day.
With respect,
No-one who’s opinion you should value will judge you on minor typos.
Props for the effort though 🙂
I agree (In that I think people should lay off Ethan a bit),
What two people do is their own business, and you can offer advice, maybe even hold judgement, but for the love of all that is good, you HOLD that judgement, as your own.
(That said, the DoA Community is fantastically non-judgmental)
No-one is perfect, and we all need to learn.
Sometimes that means getting hurt. 🙂
Having said that, I hope they learn soon.
Willis is doing a fantastic job of making this story arch feel like a slow-mo train crash…
I wonder what it says that we can’t look away.
*raises head from laptop*
I sense something… in the oncoming future…
…
Drama.
Ethan, YOU _SICKENING_ PIECE OF _SLAAAAG_.
Amber: “OMG THE LINES THAT DEFINE WHERE ONE OBJECT BEGINS AND ANOTHER ENDS HAVE FUSED AROUND THEIR LIPS AND THEY ARE NOW A SINGLE HOMOGONOUS ENTITY!”
Why is Ethan pissed with Amber? I don’t remember this
Insofar as I recall:
Amber, stressed out from a summer of standing up for her ex-boyfriend and best friend to his parents after Amber and Ethan discovered he was gay in the hotel room after prom, pretty much abandoned Ethan to Mike’s (not so tender) mercy once they began college. In response to Mike’s sarcastic “the closet’s still there” speech, Ethan decided this was a great idea and began dating Joyce. Amber, whose heart was broken that night in the hotel room after prom, had it out with Ethan in front of Galasso’s Pizza and Subs when she saw Ethan there on a double date as Joyce’s boyfriend. Ethan brought up the abandonment thing, and Amber brought up how hard that summer had been on her and how she needed some stress-free space and time.
Since then, Ethan has come clean with Joyce, though they’re determined to man this ship right into the iceberg. Amber doesn’t know this and is thus angry with Ethan. Ethan is, presumably, still unhappy with Amber not being around and being judgmental of his captaining a ship with less likely survivors than the Titanic.
Also, in their most recent interaction while Ethan was trying to comfort Amber, Amber verbally attacked him.
Ah, but the reason Amber attacked him was that in the course of “comforting” her, Ethan got extremely judgmental of the fact that she hadn’t been open with the RA and the other girls on the floor that she had an abusive father who was dangerous to her, which she has hidden for reasons of:
1.) she is determined to suborn all psychological issues, esp. those resulting from her abuse by Blaine, into Amazi-Girl’s Amazi-Box of It’s Not Crazy If It’s JUSTICE
2.) she doesn’t want to be solely recognized or stigmatized for her abusive father, in precisely the same way Ethan doesn’t want to be solely recognized or stigmatized for his homosexuality.
So she rather justifiably told him what she thought of him being the Pot to her Kettle.
Neither really realizes they are both made of cast iron stupid in this case.
Where did Ethan get judgmental? I think you might want to read that strip again: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/support/
I wants to see Sarah’s face while that’s going on >.> Also, I wonder if Ethan would have the balls to kiss her out of spite if Mike were there. I kinda want to think Mike would have something to pop up with.
Ethan is lucky that Sarah doesn’t have her baseball bat with her. Joyce is fine with a basically non-sexual relationship, but everyone else watching is going to be less fine with the entire situation.
Though it helps to remember that the Joyce/Ethan ship is only about a week old in their time. We just have had months to wait for it to explode.
On a different topic, the banner ad for the Webcomic Rampage features a smiling Danny/AG. From the banner to the creator’s ears. AG could use a little happy time. Hope that its from a radiant future and not a flashback.
That’s actually art from a Kickstarter reward for someone who requested the pair. I wouldn’t draw them sad for that!
OUCH. Dude, that’s cold. Dumping her because you realized you were gay, then turning right back around and going out with another girl is bad enough. But kissing the new one, while making full eye contact with your heartbroken friend?
Not gonna lie. D*** move, Ethan. D*** move.
There are only two asterisks in “Dan move”: “D** move”
You don’t have to hide your disparaging remark. People dump on Danny all the time, here.
Except this is worse than anything Danny has ever done and you’re bagging on him for no reason whatsoever so
Joyce looks kind of like a Ted Rall character when she kisses.
I just don’t see the spite. Is he uncomfortable and angry at her because she’s making him think about how wrong what he’s doing is? Sure. But spite would mean he’s kissing Joyce IN ORDER TO make Amber feel bad. I think he’s kissing her because he “wants” to, and is glaring at her because she’s making him feel bad about it.
Ethan definitely knows about Amber’s feelings towards him. If it was a smooch in private and Amber barged in, that’s one thing. But he’s openly kissing her in public in front of her to make a point. He’s definitely doing this to spite her.
Not sure who I’m more peeved at right now, Ethan or Joyce. One of them should dump the other, but I’m not sure which fallout would be worse.
Why you do these things!?!?!
Anyone else find Amber terrifying?
Oooooh Ethan! You are so, dang wrong!
He’s aiming for a music video style takedown.
Just on an artistic note, unrelated to anything going on in the plot, who or what is Ethan looking at in panel 2? Joyce is in front of him and Amber is to his right, bur Ethan is looking to the left in that panel.
See Willis Explanation above. He’s looking ‘Stage Right’ at Amber.
For those of you who don’t see the spite in Ethans face. Read their expressions like Amber is trying to warn him away from kissing Joyce and he’s basically saying “You can’t stop me, you can’t do anything about this. Well, you could out me, but you’re not going to do that? Are you Amber?”
Amber told Ethan to tell Joyce the truth. Ethan did so, but Joyce wants to continue the relationship.
At this point, does Amber know that Ethan and Joyce are on the same page?
Ewwwwww!!! Nigga you gay! Why you kissin’ chicks?!
I wonder if Ethan is Egyptian. Cause he’s deep in The Nile. Sorry.
oh man her face is just full f disgust, love it