Faz is just a weird kid. Probably owes it mostly to a father with boundary issues and poor attitudes towards women though. It’s yet to be seen who he will grow up to be.
well, to be fair we kind of do in shortpacked, when he keeps an amber pillow (I believe we’re all waiting on one of those, Willis) and basically stalks her, and creeps out every female he meets save one. Showing people endless charts to enforce his superiority. Seriously I can’t think of any redeeming factors, I mean, you can feel bad for him because he’s clearly neurotic, but never-the-less not someone I’d want to be around. I guess not as bad as Mary, definitely not as bad as Blaine in this continuity I think he has the impetus to become that bad since he now has his father to look to as a role model.
Seems unfair to judge the kid based on who his alternate universe counterpart grew up to be. Walkyverse Walky grew up to be a military leader, but Dumbiverse Walky doesn’t deserve any praise for that.
I’m not singing the kid’s praises or anything, but he just got lumped in with an adult rapist and an adult domestic abuser. He could grow up to be as bad as either of them, or he could grow up to be a completely decent fellow, but right now he’s just a weird child. That’s what childhood is. When a child swears you don’t say “What a rude little shit” you say “Who’s been swearing around the child?”
I always thought Mike’s schtick was being a jerk to people to make them learn something and improve themselves. So more Traditional!Loki and less TFS!Alucard.
To my knowledge, there is an auto-comment filter that replaces the banned words with the ‘~’ character. I think part of the reason is Willis was tired of hearing about certain other universe characters here, and thus confusing some people, in a similar manner that may of just happened to you.
so wait us saying spidercar still confuses the heck of people despite us no longer being able to say spidercar because Willis was tired of us confusing people about what spidercar is. So ultimately we still confuse people by saying spidercar just for very different reasons P.S. spidercar
Why would Amazigirl be banned? She’s in this continuity as well, and the only reason Willis is censoring a character’s name is because they are not in this continuity but in another.
Every character could be developed further — it’s the author’s choice. As for Sierra, she never wears shoes . . . in Indiana. If that’s not the basis for some serious plot action — based on the difficulty this will cause when the weather turns, as well as on the tension between her easy-going nature and her diehard stubbornness — I don’t know what is.
That said, Yotomoe would probably want her to go to bed with him, just for starters . . . to answer your question. 😀
Do we know where she’s from for that matter ? Suddenly I realize you’re right barefoot in snow, while fun for like, 10 feet, would destroy your feet after too much of it. Headcanon for me now places her from Arkansas, because that’s where my friends who never wear shoes are from
I don’t know. Mary was kind of a bongo about just being disturbed at 3 in the afternoon.
As for Sierra, a happy go lucky well balanced person can still be challenged by circumstance. It’s not necessary for everything bad or disrupting to have happened or begun in childhood or be associated with bad parents. The world’s full of other things that can bend or break a person, and if we know anything about Willis, he doesn’t balk at using them in his art … the bastard.
(wink in his direction)
Ha, I can imagine Joyce saying that. Except for the bit where she admits knowing what those sites are. (I figure she know, because evwn if she somehow never found out at home, between Mike and Joe someone has decided to “ruin” that blissful ignorance.
No no no, in the DOA universe, this is an election year for Robin, so there will be an election in November DOA-time … which is probably years from now in our universe.
Of course everyone had done something wrong! We’re humans! We bound to make mistakes everyday, Mary, so I hope you like squinting for the rest of your life.
what? Joe really doesn’t come off as ‘rapey’ at all. At worst, he would seduce her, which I suppose could be considered disrespectful.
And I can think of times when suggesting that someone gets ‘sexed’ to loosen up wouldn’t be offensive (in most situations it is though).
James isn’t saying Joe is rapey, James is saying the idea that a woman needs to be laid in order to loosen up is rapey, especially when someone is offering it as a legitimate suggestion.
Nah, I’m guessing it has to do with semicolons. Either that or had done something horrible in the past that causes her to create a persona and on that particular day, the persona returns….but my bets on the semicolon thing.
What? All I’m saying is that Mary might did a little error with her punctuation marks….though the incident with someone’s digestive tract is an interesting theory.
I’d say Roz, but somehow I think having them in the same room for an extended period of time would of caused the world to of exploded during the first week.
While her foul mood in of itself doesn’t indicate anything (after all, this is Mary we’re talking about), considering who her roommate is, I’d say there’s a fair chance she’s been sexiled, and she’s waiting for the room to no longer be “in-use,” so to speak.
I’ve been really looking forward to her getting more focus. Of all of Willis’s old characters, she seems like she did benefit the most from his increased skill at character nuance.
I dunno… Mary’s the kind of character where she seems okay if you don’t look real close, but the more you focus on her and the more detail you get, the worse she gets, and there’s always more worse buried there inside the fine details. Like some kind of fractal of terrible.
No, I don’t remember her from the Walkyverse, or the Shortpackedverse, and she doesn’t show up often enough in the Dumbiverse for me to get a good feel for her character.
There was a pretty big storyline where someone went to her thinking she was still a friend, and she was a hugely judgmental jerk. That was pretty notable. It’s just that she wasn’t in a lot of storylines.
I think she’ll start showing up on BringBackRoomies.com soon. As for this universe, just click the Mary tab. So far all she’s done is get upset at Joyce for bringing an atheist (Dorothy) to church.
I think you need to stop using the word “strawman”. It doesn’t mean what you apparently think it means. (Technically it’s two words, “straw man“, as well.)
You should look up for what ‘strawman’ means. If it is a real argument a real person would use, it is not strawman by definition. If you agree people like Mary exist, then you shouldn’t accuse her of being a strawman.
This atheist is hopeful this is where Willis launches Mary’s character development.
Take a look at that poll on the right of the screen. This is the *least* popular character in the DoA panoply. And rightfully so; she makes Carol Brown look like David Foster Wallace.
I’ll never be able to relate to her, but anyone who doubts that Willis is going to be able to make her into an incredibly deep and nuanced character hasn’t been reading for long.
She does kinda have a point, unknowingly, with all the jerkish behavior lately. Ethan holing up in the closet, Amber refusing to face her problems, Billie lying about quitting booze, Joyce enabling Ethan’s self destructive behavior, and Danny being… Danny. All we need now is the revelation of Dina feeding minor characters to a hidden pack of Deinonychus.
I really don’t get why everyone keeps criticizing Russell Crowe in that movie. I wouldn’t put him in a men’s choir anytime soon, but I’ve heard worse singing. Or maybe I’m just tone deaf.
People who don’t hate Danny understand that he’s a college aged kid who’s had only 3 weeks of actual in-universe time and that’s not enough time for ANYONE to grow out of character flaws.
People who don’t hate Mary are -reserving judgment- until she’s been shown more; ironically, people who are already hating her for making snap judgments are kinda being Marys.
There’s a fundamental difference between judging real people and judging fictional characters. Real people are as complex as you are, so you can never understand them well enough to judge them fairly. Fictional characters are simple enough to have been conceived in the mind of one person, and judging them is an essential part of judging the artwork.
But if that were true, that’d mean there was no reason to judge a character based on how you felt about them, only based on how well they were written, because liking a work’s characters and liking the work aren’t necessarily linked. Since characters are meant to emulate real people, that means they can be treated like them, and judged or not judged according to what you know. I agree that you can never judge people fairly, but I don’t think that means all judgement is automatically unfair, and either way it doesn’t prevent people from judging people.
(this response is probably to late to be read, but)
My main judgement of any artwork is: Do I like it? then: Why? then: What else do I feel about it? then … How well it is written comes some way down my list, because I’m not a professional critic, and I don’t want to be. How I feel about the characters is an important part of what I feel about the whole thing, though “dislike” can be as good as “like”.
It’s completely fair to judge a fictional character on what we see of them, because that’s all there is of them. We have, literally, seen everything there is to see, and anything else is our own invention. Of course, the author might write more, in which case we must rejudge. But reserving judgement isn’t being fair, it’s being inconclusive.
You can never judge a fictional character as if they were real, because you can never interact with them. The main way we decide if we like people is based on how they react to us face-to-face, how they respond to our prompts, verbal & nonverbal, conscious & unconscious. Without that interaction, our instinctive judgement is not much use. Instead, we must judge them on what they say and do, because that’s all there is.
I disagree. Mary is not Mike. And Mike was not played for laugh’s.
Mary finds fault with everyone, where there is not necessarily any fault to find.
Mike finds the fault that’s really there, tells you flat out what’s wrong with you, and sometimes works to make it backfire on you in some very roundabout nefarious way.
For a nickel.
She’s hardly done anything in DoA, but since the hardly anything that she’s done includes being intolerant of Sierra because she doesn’t wear shoes, being intolerant of Dorothy because she’s not a Christian, being intolerant of Joyce for trying to bring non-believers to Christ, being intolerant of Roz because she’s Roz, and being a nosy, judgmental bothriospondylus about basically everything she’s ever seen Billie do (though, to be fair, Billie did bust in on her when she wasn’t dressed by 3 PM, so a bit of a grudge is understandable), and nothing good or helpful whatsoever ever, I feel pretty safe assuming that she’s still terrible.
But doesn’t Joyce judge Sierra, Dorothy, and Roz initially? Joyce isn’t a bad person. And she doesn’t seem nosy, she just has all of this craziness happening around her. It’s kinda hard not to notice.
Joyce does good things, Joyce does bad things, Joyce makes mistakes and learns lessons and tries to correct herself. The best Mary’s gotten yet in DoA is neutral.
I looked back on this, because my memory was fuzzy and I wondered what abysmal things Mary had to have done in her one notable scene to be this hated. Intolerant of Sierra because she doesn’t wear shoes: Yes. Intolerant of Dorothy because she’s not a Christian: Yes. Being intolerant of Joyce for bringing non-believers to Christ: Yes, in the same way Becky has been. Being intolerant of Roz because she’s Roz: Not sure. We’ve seen her complain about her habits, but we haven’t seen them interacting at any point. Dorothy started out assuming badly about Roz, and Billie fumed over Sal for a long time.
I don’t see where you’re coming from when you say ‘nosy’. Dorothy’s atheism only came up after she’d been talking about doubting the sermon for a while, and I don’t think she’s actually had any interaction with Billie besides that time Billie hid out in her room. As for nothing good or helpful, you could say the same about Daisy. Or Jason. Or even Sal, depending on what you think about her threatening to punch Ruth or warning Joyce about the cops.
Joyce explores and tries to correct herself because she assumes the best from people, and thinks everyone has good in them. From what we’ve seen of Mary, she seems pretty isolated, and that isolation is self-enforced, only hanging out with people who meet her ideology/attitude exactly. There’s no chance she’ll change her attitude if she doesn’t change who she hangs out with, but she can’t because then she doesn’t have any guarantee or set of rules that proves they’re what she can consider good people. It’s a terrible cycle, and ultimately her fault.
I’m kind of concerned people are judging her more on attitude than on her actions so far. Also, while this doesn’t excuse her intolerance, I think it’s kinda important to remember that she hasn’t targeted anyone. When discovering Dorothy’s atheism, she said what she thought and left. She hasn’t gone around condemning sinners on campus. The worst she’s done is not interact with people who don’t share her beliefs, which, as you say, is neutral. Not likeable but not assholish enough to push through the other side and become likeable in a rascally way, she’s mainly annoying, and annoying marks you down as a dumping ground of hate in fiction, being that readers are much more likely to have been irritated by those same attitudes in their own lives. (See: Danny.)
I know, but as I said, Sarah was very flat in It’s Walky and she’s much more fleshed out now. Everyone was different in the Walkyverse. Except Mike, maybe.
1. Ewww, comments with more than one paragraph!
2. I agree, people are judging her too harshly. We haven’t seen her do anything that is really aimed at anyone.
3. Lawful Neutral is the new face of Evil, just saying.
It’s often been my experience that when people are as bitter and judgmental as Mary they’ve experienced some pretty terrible personal tragedies in their lives and routine disappointments from people who are important to them. I know this isn’t always the case, but generally people don’t end up being that angry without some damage. I’d like to see this aspect of Mary’s character explored. I’m not saying she needs a redemption arc, but perhaps something to explain why she feels the way she does about the rest of humanity. A character can be despised and a terrible person while at the same time being sympathetic and possibly even likable (I’m looking at you, Walter White).
I’d really like it if Mary’s character was explored a bit more. Flat unsympathic characters are sometimes necessary, but, as characters like Raidah show us, you can dislike the main characters’ actions and still come from a reasonable place. Mary’s always seemed condemning while miserable, and seeing the source of that misery would be interesting.
I’m not sure that applies in the same way, though. Mike was a frontrunner for 15 years, and his character from the early days got so well-known that changing it up much wouldn’t make sense. Despite this, he’s still gotten a lot of exploration, as his relationship with Amber, fallout from Dina, and 180 intoxication proves.
If you’re looking at all appearances, I’d say Mary is more like Sarah, since she appeared in the Walkyverse a few times and, while noticeable, never got a lot of development. Sarah in the Dumbiverse is a much more developed character than Sarah in the Walkyverse, and there’s no saying this won’t happen again.
Has she been sexiled? Because I figure if there’s something that’s the worst thing that can happen to a person like Marcy in college… that would be it. And it would explain her mood.
Hell, I’d be fucking cranky as shit in her place. Then again, I probably wouldn’t be sitting out there. Probably camped out in a computer room or something.
I’m probably going to regret saying this, but I’m actually kinda excited to see Mary again. I hardly like her, but she always brings an… uh… interesting perspective to events.
Also, yes, it’s obvious that Roz is in there. The question we should be asking is: who’s in Roz?
Ethan, Walky and Danny are the only ones I’m sure are out (Walky because of relationship, Ethan because of sexuality and Danny because of sorta-relationship and ew, Danny), so let’s list the possibilities! Jacob, Mike, Faz (could have come back to see her), Joe (redux), Jason…er. Hm. Wow, that few?
Actually, looking at the chapter title, it’s possible she’s not doin’ someone but rather something. Something that starts with a W and ends in arijuana.
Generally most internet pseudo intellectuals (i.e. most people) will either say “Humanity is stupid” or “Humanity is evil” so she’s hardly a minority here.
I bet if you polled the audience we’d get a majority falling into both camps.
Loading ...
She… She creeps me out.
What, you haven’t being stared at by some person because of some mistake that you never know you did?
Or you just want to forget about all of your trouble in life, just to see this girl in the hallway with that “You know what you did” look…
-Glare-
(Smack!) Stop it, you peeping tom.
Mike doesn’t smack
He punches!
Yes he does.
Your mom’s butt.
With a nickel.
No, FOR a Nickel!
Well, either way, he’s five cents richer.
I made a decent comment in a Mike thread. I feel so happy.
Mary is *whose* mom now?
From bad to worse to Mary
Mary is Below Danny. And that’s saying something!
Still not Blaine.
Or Ryan.
Or Faz.
Faz is just a weird kid. Probably owes it mostly to a father with boundary issues and poor attitudes towards women though. It’s yet to be seen who he will grow up to be.
I didn’t vote for Mary as “favorite undergrad character”, but could I give her a – 1 vote all the same?
well, to be fair we kind of do in shortpacked, when he keeps an amber pillow (I believe we’re all waiting on one of those, Willis) and basically stalks her, and creeps out every female he meets save one. Showing people endless charts to enforce his superiority. Seriously I can’t think of any redeeming factors, I mean, you can feel bad for him because he’s clearly neurotic, but never-the-less not someone I’d want to be around. I guess not as bad as Mary, definitely not as bad as Blaine in this continuity I think he has the impetus to become that bad since he now has his father to look to as a role model.
Seems unfair to judge the kid based on who his alternate universe counterpart grew up to be. Walkyverse Walky grew up to be a military leader, but Dumbiverse Walky doesn’t deserve any praise for that.
I’m not singing the kid’s praises or anything, but he just got lumped in with an adult rapist and an adult domestic abuser. He could grow up to be as bad as either of them, or he could grow up to be a completely decent fellow, but right now he’s just a weird child. That’s what childhood is. When a child swears you don’t say “What a rude little shit” you say “Who’s been swearing around the child?”
You haven’t read Shortpacked! have you?
Redemption!
So have you Mary. God has said “leave the judging to me”.
Go glare at yourself in the mirror.
“This… this mirror is a dirty sinner!”
Just checking…is that a Stephen Lynch reference?
See, i almost said “the guy who sold me this mirror”, but i didn’t think anyone would get the reference!
I love you for that reference. Forever.
YotomoexLiaHansen, OTP.
Your post says you ship it, but your avatar just stares harshly, squints, and says “ew no homo so squick”
I used to get Sienna. This is a massive step down.
She doesn’t understand the concept of “hypocrisy”
Or she understands the meaning of it, but does things anyway.
Now that’s ironic.
Mary just cant stand those pesky hypocripts.
No one said she doesn’t hate herself.
pretty sure you have to hate yourself to be that unplesant…
Now I’m imagining Mary with Ultra Magnus’ stat-o-vision and seeing her reflection.
Oh, Primus. Mary IS Ultra Magnus.
Ever notice the folks who say, “I don’t judge; God does,” nevertheless seem sure of what the verdict will be — and look forward to it?
God also forgives.
Well, Joyce’s does.
“God forgives so you don’t have to!”
And yet why do I want Mary to show up more? Can she get development next please!
Mary’s development just makes her worse.
And yet everyone loved Ruth as a jerk >_>
Ruth didn’t judge people (except Billie)! Just threatened everyone and beat up Billie.
So Ruth is…Girl Mike?
That makes PERFECT SENSE.
well yeah except mike’s assholeness is played for laughs. Ruths was not.
I thought Mike was kinda like the TFS version of Alucard. Except, Mike’s not a vampire.
That we know of
Mike is whatever kind of vampire you don’t want him to be. So probably the sparkly kind.
I always thought Mike’s schtick was being a jerk to people to make them learn something and improve themselves. So more Traditional!Loki and less TFS!Alucard.
E.R., maybe it is sometimes, but I must’ve missed the part where putting all his books in Walky’s backpack was to make him learn a lesson…
Most if the time it’s for shits and giggles, though.
I don’t know, Mike’s pretty good at bringing the drama for other people
But what if she got developed to be less Mary-like?
Fuck Mary. Where’s Sierra’s Development?
Screw that, I wanted to know the story of Magnitude…and how did he ended up here.
Pop Pop?
Fuck Sierra! I still want to know who Spidercar is, goddamnit!
…Is that an inside joke I’m not getting? I usually read only a few comments.
To my knowledge, there is an auto-comment filter that replaces the banned words with the ‘~’ character. I think part of the reason is Willis was tired of hearing about certain other universe characters here, and thus confusing some people, in a similar manner that may of just happened to you.
so wait us saying spidercar still confuses the heck of people despite us no longer being able to say spidercar because Willis was tired of us confusing people about what spidercar is. So ultimately we still confuse people by saying spidercar just for very different reasons P.S. spidercar
Time to do some experimenting. Let’s see.
Batman
Amazigirl
Ninja Rick
Malaya
Well, that’s it for my guesses
Why would Amazigirl be banned? She’s in this continuity as well, and the only reason Willis is censoring a character’s name is because they are not in this continuity but in another.
Part of me wants to just tell you which character it is. Part of me finds all this confusion way too funny.
thinking it’s an invention of joe’s ultracar if I’m right, think sentient transportation
testing — autocar
still testing — ultra car
two words; five letter, a space, and three letters gives you 9 tildes….
In all honesty, Sierra’s likeability is probably because she hasn’t been developed much.
Sierra lacks room for development though, she’s a great character but where will you have her go ?
Every character could be developed further — it’s the author’s choice. As for Sierra, she never wears shoes . . . in Indiana. If that’s not the basis for some serious plot action — based on the difficulty this will cause when the weather turns, as well as on the tension between her easy-going nature and her diehard stubbornness — I don’t know what is.
That said, Yotomoe would probably want her to go to bed with him, just for starters . . . to answer your question. 😀
Do we know where she’s from for that matter ? Suddenly I realize you’re right barefoot in snow, while fun for like, 10 feet, would destroy your feet after too much of it. Headcanon for me now places her from Arkansas, because that’s where my friends who never wear shoes are from
I don’t know. Mary was kind of a bongo about just being disturbed at 3 in the afternoon.
As for Sierra, a happy go lucky well balanced person can still be challenged by circumstance. It’s not necessary for everything bad or disrupting to have happened or begun in childhood or be associated with bad parents. The world’s full of other things that can bend or break a person, and if we know anything about Willis, he doesn’t balk at using them in his art … the bastard.
(wink in his direction)
january 23rd
Oakhurst, California, in the 5+ years distant past.
I kind of feel Mary on this. No one likes getting sexiled. That’s just rude.
Yeah she has a legitimate reason to be mad, even if she’s Mary.
Especially when it’s a Sunday afternoon. It is Mary’s room too. That’s when you find somewhere else.
Your gravatar agrees with you…
Sunday early afternoon, though. Imagine coming back from church and finding premarital hanky panky in your room!
I think I’d just laugh at the irony
How do we know she’s been–oh right Roz is her roommate nevermind
Oh yeah. Forgot that.
Roz needs her own storyline, or would that be too much for the internet to handle?
If you want a Roz storyline, just go to Brazzers or Youporn. I’m sure its there.
Ha, I can imagine Joyce saying that. Except for the bit where she admits knowing what those sites are. (I figure she know, because evwn if she somehow never found out at home, between Mike and Joe someone has decided to “ruin” that blissful ignorance.
Did we ever find out what happened with the story thread of her trying to hook Leslie and Robin up?
Nope.
…honestly wondering if DoA-universe elections will happen in 2016. It’s early October right now, I think.
And keeping in mind the buffer Willis runs, will he prove to be some sort of sweatpants soothsayer?
Sweatpants Soothsayer is the name of my next band.
I’m still going with Motorcycle Tsundere.
Mine’s Flaming Hot Butt Taco.
Mine is the Mi-go Amigos.
It’s a techno-mariachi band with Lovecraftian lyrics.
She’s a congressperson, so we actually wouldn’t have to wait all that long. She’d be up in midterms, Nov 2014.
No no no, in the DOA universe, this is an election year for Robin, so there will be an election in November DOA-time … which is probably years from now in our universe.
I was wondering who the offending roommate was, thank you for reminding me!
Of course everyone had done something wrong! We’re humans! We bound to make mistakes everyday, Mary, so I hope you like squinting for the rest of your life.
That’s why Jesus did all that dyin’ for. So we could sin and junk.
It’s like she’s read Romans 3:23 and not made it to verse 24 to hear the good news.
I like Mary, she’s Different.
I have made contact with the Mary.
And she is US.
The difference is…I embraced the abyss…then punched the abyss in the face and steal his wallet.
We both looked into the abyss. The difference is, when it looked back… you blinked.
When I looked into the abyss, the abyss said “quit staring at me, it’s creepy”.
One of US. One of US.
Who? The United States [of America] or all-upper case objective case of “we”?
Mary Mary Oh Contrary
Is America, North and South. Everything.
Wait, so Billie is wearing shorts and track pants?
Maybe just really cute leggings?
Well, it is kinda cute.
She’s definitely wearing short-shorts and leggings. I enjoy wearing that myself, and it’s something I learned to recognize after watching Steins Gate.
Is it me, or is Billie always pointing out people’s awkward characteristics?
Someone’s gotta do it and Danny’s nowhere near here.
Joe could help Mary loosen up. Hell who knows, they might have a kid too.
As much as I don’t like Mary, I think saying someone should get sexed to loosen up is kinda offensive when being serious about it.
I have yet to see it seriously suggested without it having rapey subtext. Or just text.
what? Joe really doesn’t come off as ‘rapey’ at all. At worst, he would seduce her, which I suppose could be considered disrespectful.
And I can think of times when suggesting that someone gets ‘sexed’ to loosen up wouldn’t be offensive (in most situations it is though).
James isn’t saying Joe is rapey, James is saying the idea that a woman needs to be laid in order to loosen up is rapey, especially when someone is offering it as a legitimate suggestion.
Joe and Mary could totally have a kid without anyone getting sexed.
At least that’s what it says in this here book. It’s a pretty good book, though not the really good book.
Tim!
So what have YOU done wrong, Mary? Mess up an alphabetized spice rack?
Be a bongo to everybody for years.
Well, yeah, it seems pretty obvious from an outside perspective, but I’m wondering what SHE thinks she’s done wrong.
Nah, I’m guessing it has to do with semicolons. Either that or had done something horrible in the past that causes her to create a persona and on that particular day, the persona returns….but my bets on the semicolon thing.
So, you don’t think it has anything to do with an entire colon?
What? All I’m saying is that Mary might did a little error with her punctuation marks….though the incident with someone’s digestive tract is an interesting theory.
I know why she is outside her room. And why she is upset. Quick, who’s her roommate?
Roz. (hah.)
I’d say Roz, but somehow I think having them in the same room for an extended period of time would of caused the world to of exploded during the first week.
That’s why Mary’s in the hallway.
While her foul mood in of itself doesn’t indicate anything (after all, this is Mary we’re talking about), considering who her roommate is, I’d say there’s a fair chance she’s been sexiled, and she’s waiting for the room to no longer be “in-use,” so to speak.
And when she comes back in…everything’s sticky!
Turns out Spider-Man used the room before.
Oh, so that’s what that word’s supposed to mean.
Said the pot.
Mary’s just pissed because she’s got the munchies
Well, the pot was supposed to argue with a kettle but Billie works too, I guess.
If the pot’s talking to her, she probably should sit down.
“Everyone’s done something wrong. Your crime, Jennifer, is dishonesty, with an added count of dressing too 90’s.”
*Mary spots another student wearing Cross Colors*
“Stop, in the name of the Vice and Vestment Squad!!”
Am I the only one who doesn’t remember Mary at all?
I had kinda forgotten about her too…
We have a word for that. Lucky.
I’ve been really looking forward to her getting more focus. Of all of Willis’s old characters, she seems like she did benefit the most from his increased skill at character nuance.
I remember Mary being… more cheerful than this version.
Dammit, didn’t mean for this to be a reply! Oh well.
I dunno… Mary’s the kind of character where she seems okay if you don’t look real close, but the more you focus on her and the more detail you get, the worse she gets, and there’s always more worse buried there inside the fine details. Like some kind of fractal of terrible.
Oh, I’m not saying she’s not terrible, I’m just saying that she’s a very interesting (to me) kind of terrible.
No, I don’t remember her from the Walkyverse, or the Shortpackedverse, and she doesn’t show up often enough in the Dumbiverse for me to get a good feel for her character.
Shortpacked! goes on in the Walkyverse, so there’s no Shortpackedverse. All Willis’ comics do, actually, except for DoA.
She’s never that notable in the original verse either, just kinda judgy all the time. You are forgiven (and not judged) for not remembering her.
There was a pretty big storyline where someone went to her thinking she was still a friend, and she was a hugely judgmental jerk. That was pretty notable. It’s just that she wasn’t in a lot of storylines.
Don’t forget the hypocrisy!
I think she’ll start showing up on BringBackRoomies.com soon. As for this universe, just click the Mary tab. So far all she’s done is get upset at Joyce for bringing an atheist (Dorothy) to church.
THERE’S the Mary we know and…
Well, there’s Mary.
It’s funny because nobody likes Mary.
*checks poll*
Er, looks like 27 people like Mary.
And those 27 people thought they were voting for Dina and accidentally clicked the wrong box.
No no, I did it on purpose.
Why would you do that.
Because Mary is sooooo~ underground. Or will be, after I break my side of the fourth wall and stab her.
“Carl! What did I tell you about breaking the fourth wall?”
Good avatar for a scolding comment
some peeps cant resist da bongoes
Well I couldn’t just vote for Dina three times.
Mary is a disgusting character. I know people like her. Thankfully they get what the deserve and wind up alone as punishment.
Hey, people like guys like the Joker and they don’t necessarily agree with his views on life.
I think Nena’s saying that she knows people who bare similarity to Mary, not people who are fond of Mary as a character.
Wild Strawman appears!
Strawman uses Pre-Judge!
It hurt itself in its confusion…
I’m from the South, I promise you, these people are real.
I’m not saying that they’re not real, I’m just saying that their close-minded views are easily knocked down.
I think you need to stop using the word “strawman”. It doesn’t mean what you apparently think it means. (Technically it’s two words, “straw man“, as well.)
You keep on using that word, I don’t think it means what you think it means.
You should look up for what ‘strawman’ means. If it is a real argument a real person would use, it is not strawman by definition. If you agree people like Mary exist, then you shouldn’t accuse her of being a strawman.
Inconceivable!
There must be some rule inherent in my universe where accusations of strawmen have to appear below someone saying “oh man this is my life.”
This atheist is hopeful this is where Willis launches Mary’s character development.
Take a look at that poll on the right of the screen. This is the *least* popular character in the DoA panoply. And rightfully so; she makes Carol Brown look like David Foster Wallace.
I’ll never be able to relate to her, but anyone who doubts that Willis is going to be able to make her into an incredibly deep and nuanced character hasn’t been reading for long.
This is, like, one straw dude. It’s not even a strawman yet.
She does kinda have a point, unknowingly, with all the jerkish behavior lately. Ethan holing up in the closet, Amber refusing to face her problems, Billie lying about quitting booze, Joyce enabling Ethan’s self destructive behavior, and Danny being… Danny. All we need now is the revelation of Dina feeding minor characters to a hidden pack of Deinonychus.
This is not a sin! After all, the shadow-people are merely being served by evolution! Dinalution!
It’s a beautiful bloody circle of awesome ^_^
I hope that character is Faz…
Oh god’s no! Do you want to make the Deinonychus sick?
Damn, I forgot. Dina wouldn’t want her dinosaurs to be sick.
What about Walky and Dorothy? Or for that matter, Joe?
And there’s this asshole,
Perfect avatar is Perfect.
A New Challenger Approaches?
Suddenly, CYBER AKUMA! Be very afraid, my friends. Be very, very afraid.
Remembering and looking through every comic strip where mary appears. I think she is holding a grudge against almost every main character.
….
YOU ALL DESERVE IT! YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID!
Yes, we know what we did. Some us are still haunted by what we did. No need to remind us because our brains will not let it go…or at least, mine does.
Yes, you have done something wrong. You haven’t fallen in lesbians with us yet.
Judge Turpin! What are you doing here?
Sure it’s not Javert?
I hope not…
he sang at me not to forget his name!
And he sang badly.
I really don’t get why everyone keeps criticizing Russell Crowe in that movie. I wouldn’t put him in a men’s choir anytime soon, but I’ve heard worse singing. Or maybe I’m just tone deaf.
I agree…Russell Crowe was not terrible!!!
I didn’t mind his singing! 😀
It’s not bad per se but it’s real easy to make fun of.
That I can agree with.
Javert was way more likeable than this.
D-did she get sexiled? I hope she got sexiled
Her roommate is Roz. You tell me 🙂
Mary Mary you should stop being quite so contrary.
First I don’t hate Danny, then I don’t hate Mary?
WHAT’S WRONG WITH ME
My reaction to Mary is just a meh. Yes, even when Billie hid in her room that one time.
People who don’t hate Danny have more subtle nuances of Danny to learn about.
People who don’t hate Mary are mistaken on a fundamental level.
People who don’t hate Danny understand that he’s a college aged kid who’s had only 3 weeks of actual in-universe time and that’s not enough time for ANYONE to grow out of character flaws.
People who don’t hate Mary are -reserving judgment- until she’s been shown more; ironically, people who are already hating her for making snap judgments are kinda being Marys.
There’s a fundamental difference between judging real people and judging fictional characters. Real people are as complex as you are, so you can never understand them well enough to judge them fairly. Fictional characters are simple enough to have been conceived in the mind of one person, and judging them is an essential part of judging the artwork.
But if that were true, that’d mean there was no reason to judge a character based on how you felt about them, only based on how well they were written, because liking a work’s characters and liking the work aren’t necessarily linked. Since characters are meant to emulate real people, that means they can be treated like them, and judged or not judged according to what you know. I agree that you can never judge people fairly, but I don’t think that means all judgement is automatically unfair, and either way it doesn’t prevent people from judging people.
(this response is probably to late to be read, but)
My main judgement of any artwork is: Do I like it? then: Why? then: What else do I feel about it? then … How well it is written comes some way down my list, because I’m not a professional critic, and I don’t want to be. How I feel about the characters is an important part of what I feel about the whole thing, though “dislike” can be as good as “like”.
It’s completely fair to judge a fictional character on what we see of them, because that’s all there is of them. We have, literally, seen everything there is to see, and anything else is our own invention. Of course, the author might write more, in which case we must rejudge. But reserving judgement isn’t being fair, it’s being inconclusive.
You can never judge a fictional character as if they were real, because you can never interact with them. The main way we decide if we like people is based on how they react to us face-to-face, how they respond to our prompts, verbal & nonverbal, conscious & unconscious. Without that interaction, our instinctive judgement is not much use. Instead, we must judge them on what they say and do, because that’s all there is.
this is accurate.
I disagree. Mary is not Mike. And Mike was not played for laugh’s.
Mary finds fault with everyone, where there is not necessarily any fault to find.
Mike finds the fault that’s really there, tells you flat out what’s wrong with you, and sometimes works to make it backfire on you in some very roundabout nefarious way.
For a nickel.
With inflation that’s a dime.
And with currency conversion multiplied by the rate of uk VAT that’s a pound.
Mary’s one of those “going to make some nice young man very sad one day” types.
The only way Mary is ever going to make anyone happy is if she dies and donates some good organs.
Mary Vs Roz bongo Off.
Uh… what? Roz has been a pretty good person to people not named Robin, in this continuity.
bongo Off On Infinite Earths?
Let’s avoid the holiday rush and start hating her now.
Some people want to watch the world burn
is that… an Angel Beats reference?
maybe but I was making a Dark Knight reference
We hardly know anything about DoA-Mary, yet people are convinced she’s terrible. Must be because of something Walkyverse-Mary did.
Terrible or not, when she’s not scowling she’s very attractive. Mr. Willis is pushing buttons again.
She’s hardly done anything in DoA, but since the hardly anything that she’s done includes being intolerant of Sierra because she doesn’t wear shoes, being intolerant of Dorothy because she’s not a Christian, being intolerant of Joyce for trying to bring non-believers to Christ, being intolerant of Roz because she’s Roz, and being a nosy, judgmental bothriospondylus about basically everything she’s ever seen Billie do (though, to be fair, Billie did bust in on her when she wasn’t dressed by 3 PM, so a bit of a grudge is understandable), and nothing good or helpful whatsoever ever, I feel pretty safe assuming that she’s still terrible.
But doesn’t Joyce judge Sierra, Dorothy, and Roz initially? Joyce isn’t a bad person. And she doesn’t seem nosy, she just has all of this craziness happening around her. It’s kinda hard not to notice.
Joyce does good things, Joyce does bad things, Joyce makes mistakes and learns lessons and tries to correct herself. The best Mary’s gotten yet in DoA is neutral.
I looked back on this, because my memory was fuzzy and I wondered what abysmal things Mary had to have done in her one notable scene to be this hated. Intolerant of Sierra because she doesn’t wear shoes: Yes. Intolerant of Dorothy because she’s not a Christian: Yes. Being intolerant of Joyce for bringing non-believers to Christ: Yes, in the same way Becky has been. Being intolerant of Roz because she’s Roz: Not sure. We’ve seen her complain about her habits, but we haven’t seen them interacting at any point. Dorothy started out assuming badly about Roz, and Billie fumed over Sal for a long time.
I don’t see where you’re coming from when you say ‘nosy’. Dorothy’s atheism only came up after she’d been talking about doubting the sermon for a while, and I don’t think she’s actually had any interaction with Billie besides that time Billie hid out in her room. As for nothing good or helpful, you could say the same about Daisy. Or Jason. Or even Sal, depending on what you think about her threatening to punch Ruth or warning Joyce about the cops.
Joyce explores and tries to correct herself because she assumes the best from people, and thinks everyone has good in them. From what we’ve seen of Mary, she seems pretty isolated, and that isolation is self-enforced, only hanging out with people who meet her ideology/attitude exactly. There’s no chance she’ll change her attitude if she doesn’t change who she hangs out with, but she can’t because then she doesn’t have any guarantee or set of rules that proves they’re what she can consider good people. It’s a terrible cycle, and ultimately her fault.
I’m kind of concerned people are judging her more on attitude than on her actions so far. Also, while this doesn’t excuse her intolerance, I think it’s kinda important to remember that she hasn’t targeted anyone. When discovering Dorothy’s atheism, she said what she thought and left. She hasn’t gone around condemning sinners on campus. The worst she’s done is not interact with people who don’t share her beliefs, which, as you say, is neutral. Not likeable but not assholish enough to push through the other side and become likeable in a rascally way, she’s mainly annoying, and annoying marks you down as a dumping ground of hate in fiction, being that readers are much more likely to have been irritated by those same attitudes in their own lives. (See: Danny.)
A lot of people are already familiar with Mary from “It’s Walky”. That said, Dina is quite different in DoA, so Mary might be, too…
I do wonder why she’s here instead of going to the ‘christian’ college like Joyce’s pal.
I know, but as I said, Sarah was very flat in It’s Walky and she’s much more fleshed out now. Everyone was different in the Walkyverse. Except Mike, maybe.
1. Ewww, comments with more than one paragraph!
2. I agree, people are judging her too harshly. We haven’t seen her do anything that is really aimed at anyone.
3. Lawful Neutral is the new face of Evil, just saying.
Just walk away, Billie, it ain’t worth it.
“There’s no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.”
“We are, all of us, terrible people.” –Gordon McAlpin
Oh Mary, you are the worst.
It’s often been my experience that when people are as bitter and judgmental as Mary they’ve experienced some pretty terrible personal tragedies in their lives and routine disappointments from people who are important to them. I know this isn’t always the case, but generally people don’t end up being that angry without some damage. I’d like to see this aspect of Mary’s character explored. I’m not saying she needs a redemption arc, but perhaps something to explain why she feels the way she does about the rest of humanity. A character can be despised and a terrible person while at the same time being sympathetic and possibly even likable (I’m looking at you, Walter White).
So what did YOU do wrong, Mary?
You are pretty much opening the door to us asking you that!
Well, I don’t THINK she’s pregnant… Yet.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS INNOCENCE. ONLY DEGREES OF GUILT.
Clearly we need a lot of Mike vs Mary encounters.
That would be a Dreadnought class ship if I ever saw one
Emphasis on “Dread”
I’d really like it if Mary’s character was explored a bit more. Flat unsympathic characters are sometimes necessary, but, as characters like Raidah show us, you can dislike the main characters’ actions and still come from a reasonable place. Mary’s always seemed condemning while miserable, and seeing the source of that misery would be interesting.
If Mike has had no development after 15 years it doesn’t seem very likely.
Mike had a little development when Donna was born. Not much, but still it was something
I’m not sure that applies in the same way, though. Mike was a frontrunner for 15 years, and his character from the early days got so well-known that changing it up much wouldn’t make sense. Despite this, he’s still gotten a lot of exploration, as his relationship with Amber, fallout from Dina, and 180 intoxication proves.
If you’re looking at all appearances, I’d say Mary is more like Sarah, since she appeared in the Walkyverse a few times and, while noticeable, never got a lot of development. Sarah in the Dumbiverse is a much more developed character than Sarah in the Walkyverse, and there’s no saying this won’t happen again.
All I can think is that Billie just looks really, really hot in those first two panels.
I’m just going to point it out here: Billie has a “I feel invaded in my intimacy” look.
Panel 3: set judgement eyes to 50% power.
Panel 4: target is not disengaging. Set judgement eyes to full power!
I’ve totally forgotten who Mary is. ARCHIVE BINGE!
Let’s not overlook the obvious: Someone is getting laid in that room. Who is Mary’s roommate?
Roz.
…
Nah, there can’t be any hanky-panky going on in there, don’t be silly.
I’m never silly where sex is concerned. And don’t call me Shirley.
Billie’s basically my favorite character right now.
Has she been sexiled? Because I figure if there’s something that’s the worst thing that can happen to a person like Marcy in college… that would be it. And it would explain her mood.
Hell, I’d be fucking cranky as shit in her place. Then again, I probably wouldn’t be sitting out there. Probably camped out in a computer room or something.
blah… there should be an edit button.
Mary Not Marcy… and One of the worst things… not the worst thing.
Yeah…
$5 says Roz is either doing a parent…
Or Ryan.
I assume Joe … or Joe’s Dad, is he still around?
Hope it’s not Joe, Roz already conquered that dick.
I mean *Yawn*, something new please Roz : /
(Maybe it’s Leslie)
I think Roz is saving doin’ girls for when Robin tries to drag her out on stage at the RNC.
And Leslie’s holding out for big sis anyway.
DiDi, your theory makes the most sense, but one question. Which 5 lucky people are in there?
Anyone else notice this ominous text? “breakin’ y’alls hearts in thirteen weeks, like a boss.”
Better not be Ruth and Billie, ‘specially after that happy face update.
That is indeed worrisome. The worst part is that we’ll all forget about it by then. Unless…
Lessee… thirteen weeks? That’ll be…. about February 8, give or take.
Marking it in Google Calendar now. 😛
Happy Ruth is Feb. 10.
http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/66416887371/february-10
Everyone is unclean in the eyes of Mary.
Fire cleanses all.
Hm, that would be a good campus supervillain.
I was really confused about what was going on here …until I was reminded in the comments that Roz was her roommate. xD
It seems that Mary doesn’t carry around an extra sock in case of emergencies.
Roz had a sock for such purposes, but it got worn out.
I’m probably going to regret saying this, but I’m actually kinda excited to see Mary again. I hardly like her, but she always brings an… uh… interesting perspective to events.
Also, yes, it’s obvious that Roz is in there. The question we should be asking is: who’s in Roz?
Ethan, Walky and Danny are the only ones I’m sure are out (Walky because of relationship, Ethan because of sexuality and Danny because of sorta-relationship and ew, Danny), so let’s list the possibilities! Jacob, Mike, Faz (could have come back to see her), Joe (redux), Jason…er. Hm. Wow, that few?
Actually, looking at the chapter title, it’s possible she’s not doin’ someone but rather something. Something that starts with a W and ends in arijuana.
Roz is doing Mary-Jane? Spiderman will not be happy … unless he’s into watching that sort of thing.
“Everyone’s done something wrong.”
What did you do wrong then? Being an over judgmental bongo I assume?
Generally most internet pseudo intellectuals (i.e. most people) will either say “Humanity is stupid” or “Humanity is evil” so she’s hardly a minority here.
I bet if you polled the audience we’d get a majority falling into both camps.
Also Mary has coloured eyes. Not the first time we’ve seen this way, instead I only just noticed.
Significance???
The colored irises are spreading. Neither Mary nor Ruth had them at the beginning of the strip. They’ve been infected with Joyce!
Odd, new strip is usually up by now isn’t it?
There’s no longer Daylight savings time so it’s back to GMT -5.
I bet she sees nothing when she’s at the mirror
Could we just skip ahead to where someone punches Mary in the face please? That’s really all the character arc she needs.
(Her and half the cast).
It’s true.