Typically when Joyce acts respectable, within three comics she goes has says something/reacts in some way that causes us to collectively smack our foreheads. So I’ll just wait a bit before committing my respect, I think.
oh jolly good joyce. you’ve managed a tiny flicker of redemption. now maybe get some proper open-mindedness and you’ll have managed to reach the maturity level MOST people manage by late adolescence.
Joyce has shown more maturity and self-possession than basically anyone else in the entire cast; I don’t know what you think you’re talking about, dude, but might I also add that sarcastic belittling isn’t normally viewed as particularly mature either.
People who don’t have a vested interest in believing the Bible see it as an obviously internally inconsistent document. This is why it has become a mostly true cliché to say that you can use the Bible to argue anything.
For example, that part about Matthew 10:37 about loving your parents more than Jesus seems to contradict the Fourth (or Fifth, depending on how you count) Commandment: “Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.”
And of course, her parents could always come back with 2 Corinthians 6:14-16, “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: ‘I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.’ Therefore ‘Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you.’ “
Corinthians is the word of Paul in his Epistle to the Corinthians. Joyce is calling upon the word of Jesus as reported in the Gospels. Paper covers rock! Hah!
(I love the various theses out there that state Paul was actually the Antichrist.)
Given that Paul and his adaptation/advertisement/management of Christianity is the only reason that any of you have heard about Christ at all, as opposed to it dying away as the cult that Jews rejected and that gentiles went ‘Dietary laws? Circumcision? EWW’ at, I find the idea of him being the antichrist hilarious.
Also, it’s safe to say that Christianity as we know it today is heavily influenced by Paul — possibly to the point of contradicting the religion it was pre-Paul — but it was a pretty solidly entrenched cult when Saul changed his name. Whether it would have grown into something as significant to Western culture is debatable, but it’s unlikely it would have been forgotten. Gentile conversions predated Paul, and though Acts ascribes the laying aside of circumcision as coming from Paul’s urging, Peter was also said to be a proponent.
Peter was *said* to be a proponent, but whether those accounts are reliable are another matter. Acts does its best to pretend that the early church was in agreement in everything and wasn’t fractured all to hell, but Paul’s authentic letters tell a slightly different story. If Paul hadn’t converted the Gentiles, it’s very possible Christianity would have died when Rome wiped Jerusalem off the face of the earth in 70AD.
Ehh… debatable, it was already well established in the Diaspora even without Paul. It probably would have been subsumed into Rabbinic Judaism as the latter began to dominate the post-temple Jewish landscape. Jesus may have gotten a minor mention in the Talmud (though that’s doubtful).
Sorry, I know it’s a stretch, just a fun topic to speculate about, for me anyway.
I don’t think the Anti-Christ was a concept that was recorded until long after Paul was dead.
(Most folks overlook the fact that the concept of the “anti-christ” wasn’t about a specific individual anyway, but a general term for anyone who denies Jesus’ divinity, which is definitely not something which describes Paul.)
I’d think the fact that she cited the second part of the Great Commandment pretty much wipes out their ability to retort with anything from Paul.
Mark 12:29-31
29 “And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Yeaaaaahhh.. but the whole thing about your comparisons is that you compared the teachings of Christ to 1) the old testament, which was meant to be supplanted by the new teachings, and 2) a letter from the Apostle Paul who never even met Jesus. So yeah, the first one is MEANT to be contradictory.. and the second one is simply bound to be contradictory. As a Christian, one should look first to the actual teachings of Christ.
Only the Epistles speak about Jesus bringing a “new covenant” which supplants the old one. According to the Gospels, Jesus himself stated that he did not come here to abolish the Law, and that even the least of the Law will remain in play until heaven and earth disappear.
The historical Jesus was Jewish, and a very law-abiding one at that. But those who wrote about him later tried to downplay this in favor of a theology that was more friendly to the Gentiles.
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled…”
The thoughts in this are roughly:
– I’m not here to abolish it.
– Until it’s fulfilled OR this, it applies.
– I’m here to fulfil this.
I’m not trying to argue with you; I don’t really know what this means. But it doesn’t seem to mean exactly what you’re saying here.
Well it really depends on how one interprets the law itself. This was hardly a settled thing in Jesus’ day. The Pharisees, for example, were actually a breakaway group who thought that the high priesthood wasn’t doing it right (may have been one of the groups that would later become the Rabbis in the post-second temple period).
For example, he certainly DID break sabbath law, as the Pharisees interpreted it through both healing and other actions (allowing his disciples to gather grain). In the grain example, pretty much any interpretation of the Bible holds that gathering wheat on the sabbath is verboten.
I think what we fail to understand that the “Law” as we see it today is often very, very opaque and was so in the Second Temple Period. If it the law *was* easy to translate into daily life, then the Talmud probably wouldn’t exist and the Rabbis wouldn’t have spent a millenium or so building up ideas of how exactly to understand what the law means for everybody (making it more complex in the process, but that’s not the point).
So saying Jesus was a “law abiding” man of his day is inherently problematic, because that assumes that one could be universally acknowledged as law-abiding.
The Pharisees were probably the group Jesus was closest in agreement to at the time, despite the many stories the Bible tells us where the two clash. Both Jesus and the Pharisees believed the Sadducees were a runaway corrupt elite, and most of Judea at the time seemed to agree with that outlook. But what Jesus and the Pharisees agreed most on was that the Law was incredibly important and that a righteous man must uphold it as faithfully as possible. Jesus only seemed to differ in his belief of which were most important — he put taking care of other people above everything else, as loving your neighbor as yourself (and the lord your god with all your heart and mind and soul yadda yadda) were the greatest of commandments. But this doesn’t mean Jesus didn’t follow the Law. What that that law specifically was is, I think, a red herring in this discussion. He certainly would not have tossed out the entire Old Testament, as Christians tend to believe is the case.
Every decent holy book says everything and therefore nothing.
This could come from two reasons – life itself is not entirely consistent and lessons are therefore not all encompassing. Short and digestible saying have limited applications that should only be applied intelligently and situationally. Otherwise it would all be a giant “If, then, else, else, else, …” statement.
Or, for non-believers it lets con-men have something to say in any situation.
Either way, while Joyce was again motivated by self-interest instead of what is purely right, she finally took a stand. (She wouldn’t do this for Walky or Ruth, for instance.)
She is also right, because the way her parents act, they would only push non-believers further away from God. Their pride and (self) righteousness in their belief would actually do the work of the devil by preventing or delaying possible conversion.
Thumping bibles is the gateway drug to hardcore kink. First you’re making the pages of 1 John stick to 2 John, next you’re chasing kidnapped transexual Thai hookers while dressed as Twilight Sparkle with a dildo replacing the horn.
JOYCE’S PARENTS died horribly in a fire! …I mean fainted! JOYCE gained 666 xp! JOYCE grew to level 20! What? JOYCE is evolving! Congratulations! JOYCE evolved into A PRETTY DAMNED DECENT CHRISTIAN! JOYCE learned VERBAL bongo SLAP!
And drive a wedge between Joyce and her parents by letting the latter fear for the former’s faith in the arms of the devil? That’s quite the reason she tried to back off in panel 2. Now she’s fucked with a lot of responsibility no matter what she does.
I’ve never seen silverware set on the plate, except after the plate has been cleared. The plate’s raised edges would cause the utensils to slide sideways into the food!
Well, in the time when such superstitions emerged, plates was a luxury. An indentation in the table would serve just as well, and give the food an interesting aftertaste of hundred-soup ingrained wood.
Never heard of indentations in a table being used in lieu of dishes. Trenchers, (hollowed out dry bread) sure, but not indentations in the table. Source?
Her parents could’ve stayed equally biblical and countered that they are supposed to slay those who do not accept Jesus as their king. (Luke 19:27) The Bible is very practical that way.
Try reading the first part of the passage (Luke 19: 12 thru 27). When you cite just one line of the Bible and do it out of context, you can warp it to any position you wish.
For some reason this reminds me of an episode of Fairly Odd Parents, where there’s a court case for whether or not Cosmo should stay a godparent.
ROLL THE REST OF THE CLIP!!!
The number of people who have read or attempted to understand the bible seems to be quite small. This is the case with both “believers” and “nonbelievers.” Seems like it is a combination or literal interpretations* of random passages and whatever non-cannon source is the easiest to find. I don’t condemn Christianity, but I condemn what *some* people have done with it. It is easy to characterize a whole group by the nosiest people in said group.
*with a bias towards what they want to say.
gonna have to disagree there – intellectually, they’re just as flawed, and I wouldn’t trust them with any power, but those who condemn Christianity on bad readings of the Bible 1) are often taking those readings from Christians. Very very public Christians. And 2) don’t usually manage to apply those bad readings to laws, creating a situation where, for example, homosexuality is considered a thing which can be legislated against, or contraception is not available, or married women cannot hold jobs.
He was “Head Alien” in the original comics, which were way better than the cartoon. The cartoon was funny, but lost a lot of the drama and edgy humor of the comics. If Joyce’s parents thought the cartoon promoted a culture of snark…
You know, In yesterdays last panel I was feeling an echo of Monkey Master’s final defiance of Head Alien toward the end of It’s Walky. Maybe it was just the shirt.
I am sure they could. Dueling bible quotes is popular on religious debate. The question is whether they will or not. Willis could go a ways towards not having the Browns be totally hated by having them back down a little here.
Or could have then hold fast and save that all for when Joshua comes out to them.
I feel bad, mostly because I see Joyce’s dad’s face. It’ stone face of a father that’ sabot to shut the discussion because it’s not going his way. He’ll end it and he’ll win, if not by being right, then by having more power.
Then Joe, Walky, Joyce, Dorothy and Danny will gain the ability to morph animals, and Danny will get stuck in a really dumb morph because no one ever told him there was a two hour limit.
She started out strong and started to lose her nerve a bit, but is able to finish her piece of mind. Glad to see it! Hopefully it won’t get completely shot down, but I feel like even if it does, it will actually reinforce her thoughts that her parents are wrong.
Parents still have the trump card of removing her from college though. 😡
Might. But seriously, if they are paying for their daughter to go to college, why would they continue after so much backtalk? Looks like Sarah’s gonna lose another roommate to me.
I realize it’s a meta rationale, but I really doubt Willis is going to take steps that would permanently remove one of the primary protagonists from DoA.
They could also always find something else to withhold from her.
My dad, for instance, wasn’t able to take college away from me so he tried to take first my car away from me, and then [successfully] took health insurance away from me by removing me from his info.
I don’t know if that’s really something that can happen anymore, but it might be. I don’t know if parents have an obligation to keep their child on their own health insurance after they’re 18, even with the new Affordable Care Act.
This might be one of the most Christian things I’ve ever seen in a comic with fundamental evangelists. She’s…actually applying Jesus to her modern day life instead of the Old Testament. She’s keeping her faith (an important part of her) while respectfully disagreeing with her parents and her friend.
It says a lot about the world that I’m genuinely taken aback by this.
I’ve met many people like Joyce in my life, but not everyone gets the chance to show how they actually treat people. It starts with “I’m Christian” and ends when the other person bashes Christianity, religions in general, and anyone who might believe differently than them, and walks away from their friend, and then blames the Christian.
I’ve seen that more times than I’ve seen a cruel Christian, and I’ve seen LOTS of cruel Christians. (And lots more who were accidentally cruel because they had no socialization outside of their own beliefs)
Perhaps because of the encounters with cruel ‘Christians’ you see more of the ‘other person bashes…’. Stop the cruel ‘Christians’ and you should see less of the OPB. But I prefer how Joyce handles the cruel ‘Christians’ here today 🙂
I like that she ended by referencing her dad’s jerky prayer about Joyce making the right decisions. Well played, Joyce. Also, by extension–WELL PLAYED, WILLIS.
Joyce just used Bible and it was super-effective! She’s put her parents in their place and handed them their metaphorical asses using their own freakin’ Scriptures! That’s more epic than eye-lasers if you ask me.
Seriously, Joyce is being awesome. The more so because it’s obviously hard for her to do it, but she’s doing it anyway because it’s the right thing to do.
And apparently I’m Joyce now. This is kind of weird. I’d gotten used to being Angry Billie.
And speaking of awesomeness, we need to get Leslie in here to help with all this table-flipping.
What is with all the table flipping? This is not a table flipping situation. There is no raging. Not even any accusations of blasphemy to account for a ‘money changers in the temple’ reference.
Joyce’s Dad: I can see it was a bad idea to enroll you hear. There’s just too much secular corruption these days. We’re pulling you out and putting you in a good christian college.
(Not that I’m predicting this, but it is a possibility.)
Speaking a Follower of Christ, you have no idea how amazing it is to see a character with my beliefs actually be a good person, instead of a horrible Bible-Thumper. You, sir, just got yourself a standing ovation. Thank you.
“And God has given me the strength to make the right decisions, even when they’re difficult.” <– And Dotty's gonna remind you that you said this, Joyce, when it's time for you to stop gay-conversion-dating Ethan. (Which is, like, any second now . . . or even yesterday.)
I think Dorothy will wait until all this is at least somewhat over – she’s a kind and empathic person and I believe she would want to give Joyce some time to recover after her rebelling against her parents (aka. doing the right thing).
THAT….Is exactly how christians should act, I’m a christian(my father is a baptist preacher actually).
THIS is how i was raised, to be accepting of others, even though they may have differing views, Many of my friends are atheists, Many are Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic, I dated a shinto shrine maiden once(still talk to her, epically amazing lady, top notch dancer).
This is so beautiful. And so real. Joyce is growing up and emancipating herself. It’s gonna be so hard, this kind of thing is always hard. When you’ve heard one thing from your parents all your life and suddenly that thing gets challenged. But she’s taken a really big step now and I’m, like, really proud of her? Is that weird, to be proud of a fictional character? I am though. She reminds me of very real people that I’m proud of in a very real way. So I’m projecting like whoa, but it’s also a testament to how real this story is. Occasionally someone comments here with ‘this is so unrealistic etc etc’ and it’s just… not. This sort of thing happens. And I’m so happy it’s happening to Joyce right now :3
Joyce has now realized that gay people, atheists, and questioning your parents are all okay. I’m pretty sure her parents fears of college are well confirmed, society has a way of fucking up lifelong brainwashing.
I like the Samaritan reference, so many people do not understand why the parable of the Good Samaritan is so powerful. It is because the Samaritans were hated by the Jews yet Jesus said that they are to be considered your neighbor and treated like yourself. All this while the wealthy and pious religious men walked on and by inference were not your neighbors, point being that what makes one your neighbor is who they are as a person.
Reality check: it was the Samaritan who treated the Jew like himself, not the other way round.
For a more sobering perspective, Matthew 15:21-28, the Canaanite woman. Excerpt:
“24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.”
But the point was that the Samaritan behaved like a good human being and was therefore to be admired. It has still the same meaning, regardless of who did the healing. The Good Samaritan was the neighbour, the religious guys were not. The Good Samaritan was the good example.
And after your excerpt, by the way, the Canaanite woman challenges Jesus, who then changes his mind and heals her daughter anyway.
Uh, she does not “challenge” Jesus. She grovels in a disarming manner with wit and chuzpah, stating “and yet the dogs get to eat the morsels falling off their masters’ table”. And apparently Jesus can accept Jewish wit as a substitute for Jewish faith.
Daaaaaaaaaaannnng, girl. As proud as I am of Joyce here, I just can’t shake the feeling that this all going to come back to bite her somehow. It just is.
Why is everyone so worried about her parents pulling funds? They can’t take back the money for this semester. She’s got months to find a way to take care of next semester, and hard working Joice trying to adapt to work and even more people with different world views would make good story. I and many people I know paid their own way. It is hard, but it is done.
Also: Willis? I’ve been reading your shit since Roomies!, and I spent a good amount of time feeling like your attempts at characters and stories and drama were hamfisted and awkward.
Those days are officially long long long past. Your comics are some of the finest character work out there.
Well done, sweetheart.
I love how Joyce is evolving in a way that lets her keep the religious belief that she so strongly holds while still learning to think for herself and apply the scripture to support what she’s learned so far.
Placing bets on whether her parents start threatening to yank her out of her present college for her new-found rebellious streak, without bothering to pay attention to the fact she just used their own supposed system of morality in her rebellion. They don’t seem to be the type to take such defiance lightly, nor to engage in much self-reflection before resorting to threats.
Oh, I’m sure she is. They can’t force her to go anywhere she doesn’t want to go.
The real question is whether her new-found defiance, gained after about three weeks of college compared to a lifetime of parental brainwashing, is strong enough to endure her parents putting her in such a situation.
I don’t want to be the guy egging on the whole “coming out of her shell and smashing the fundies” thing, because this is (probably, correct me if I’m wrong) very very hard on Joyce for a while.
Well, this drew a slow-but-sharp inhale from me. ALL the bits of interplay here – Joyce’s sticking her courage to the wall, even as she’s scared; Carol and Hank’s surprise and not-quite-anger about being defied; and (the one that hit me hardest, in some ways) DOROTHY being willing to back down for the sake of some semblance of harmony – all of these come together to keep this comic the one that is the high point of my daily webcomics trawl.
This is my new favorite strip of all time. It sometimes feels like these strips get a little bit preachy about how all religions are too, well preachy, ignoring the fact that there are in fact many people of all different religions and denominations that are moderate, tolerant, and accepting of others. The fact that Joyce is using the bible to point out how her parents were using the bible to justify their own ignorance and personal life view was just brilliant, bravo Willis Bravo.
Joyce is worthy of great respect. She has immense moral courage. I wonder if her parents can step back and see it for what it is. She has understood the message that they taught, but they themselves are too hypocritical to practice themselves.
I know it’s been said, but that was beautiful. Now all she needs to do is go help a hobo because Jesus told her to and she can stop searching for a man, because I will climb through the screen and sweep her off her feet if it kills me.
Well now, that’s almost enough to make me cry (cried last in 2001). Gotta say I’m proud of her. She has ‘grown’ more than just about any character in the strip.
So, now they pick the parents up off he pavement and put them in their car?
And Joyce gets a group hug?
She stands up to them and they all but disown her. And that starts her on her path to secularism. But she’ll have her friends. AND Dexter and Monkey Master!
This is great. A lot of the discussions of Joyce’s characterization in these comments has been about her upbringing, from better or for worse, ranging from “it’s not her fault, it’s how she was raised” to “she’s too sheltered, she’ll retreat from the world and go back”. This is Joyce breaking with the people who facilitated her upbringing, who probably were faith as she knew it, and she’s telling them they were wrong. This is her making a choice–the choice to stand by her religion and stand by the people she thinks are good people, a choice which has been understated ever since she didn’t immediately split off with Dorothy after learning she was an atheist.
There are still obvious flaws with this. She thinks a lot of her friends are good people but manifests this in trying to help them rid themselves of their supposed sins, like Ethan’s homosexuality or Dorothy’s atheism. She still has a lot of problems with her own sexuality, too. But moving away from what her parents taught her gives Joyce her own meaning for her beliefs, and it’s clear Dorothy is surprised by it. It’s a pretty damn big step into independence. (From her parents, anyway.)
Maybe she won’t have to protect her as much as she seems to think.
My back, for instance, remembers a lot of things for me. Sitting in an awkward position on an awkward chair doing an awkward job all day for example. I’d like to forget that – my back remebers it too well. 😉
Sure, but if you make your moral foundation a book that has both good and very bad things in it then you are setting yourself up to make some very bad decisions for the same bad reasons.
Joyce should stand up for Dorothy, but because she knows that it’s the right thing to do, which she does. The bible is a post-hoc justification.
I see the Bible as more a reflection of real life when put into terms of the amount of good and bad it contains; there are both good and very bad things in the bible, like you said, but it really is up to you to decide where your morals are aligned. And instead of following what her parents had raised her to think, she made the decision on her own. Thankfully, it was the best decision, which allows her to both keep her religious beliefs AND defend her best friend.
I was raised areligiously. My mom is a christian and my dad is an atheist. They both agreed that the Bible contains many important guidelines and moral ethics to becoming a good person and so they raised me on christian morals without including God in the picture.
Don’t lie because then nobody will trust me instead of don’t lie because God says it’s wrong. Stealing hurts others, how would you feel if we took away all your toys? Swearing makes grandma cry etc.
Just because a lot of messed up things has been committed by people through the centuries who believed in the Bible and believed themselves to be spreading a message of love, even when hacking civilians asunder with their swords, doesn’t mean that the Bible itself can’t be a good moral foundation.
I apologize for that last bit. Upon closer reading I see you didn’t mention anything of the atrocities committed. I’ve just grown so used to people criticizing the Bible as a moral foundation to bring that up as an example.
I still stand by the point that the Bible can be an excellent moral foundation however. Even in our own secular society, a great many of our laws and moral ethics that keep society together come from the Bible. All that’s changed is not using “God said so” as a reason to why they should be followed.
Well, let me rephrase what I said before. If you are cherry-picking the morally acceptable parts of the bible and applying them for secular, rational reasons, why do you need the bible at all? You know stealing is wrong because it hurts others. You didn’t learn that from the bible.
I wouldn’t point to the atrocities people have done in the name of Christianity as evidence that it is not a morally upright set of teachings. I would point to the morally reprehensible things that it explicitly commands.
Even leaving aside the Old Testament and its advocacy of slavery and genocide, there is much to be criticized. The central doctrine of vicarious redemption (by human sacrifice!) is immoral on its face. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus claims that the thought-crimes of anger and lust are equivalent crimes to murder and adultery. I could go on.
My point is not that all Christians are immoral (they are not), but that their morality does not come from the bible. Their morals, like yours, are not founded in ancient texts, but in solidarity and fellowship with other people and a rational consideration of the consequences of actions.
But how do you get that moral foundation? Just like a building foundation of cinder blocks, it has to come from somewhere. And so long as the foundation is strong, it shouldn’t matter if it is based on the words of some 2000-year old book, “Harry Potter”, The Way of the Jedi, or The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Because the bible’s foundation is /better/ than that provided by Harry Potter. I’m and atheist, and neither my upbringing nor my environment are or were christian. However, the bible has its merits as a code of acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Very nearly everything in the bible could be used to make a point about how some behavior or other is either appropriate or innappropriate. A code of morals is really all it is.
And yes, some of the bible’s teachings are archaic and no longer accepted. This is because the book is hundred upon hundreds of years old. If the united states constitution needs to be updated countless times in just the four hundred years we’ve had it, think how many revisions the bible is due for that it will never get, because the clergy is too intent on keeping the good word.
What I’m saying is, yes, there are flaws, but behind them is a good structure of right and wrong. If only people could stick to those rules without the threat of eternal damnation, then we’d be getting somewhere…
Well this is encouraging and all but considering the parents previous actions I doubt it will have much of an effect, beyond them shrugging and quoting a counter argument supporting passage.
Three things i like about this strip in the first panel here it looks like Joyce is elbowing here mom in the chest hard is one. in the second panel where Joyce’s dad is like “i feel i should be angry but her bible verses make it hard for me to disapprove of” is second. then in the third panel is the almighty justice finger Joyce is using to point at her parents which i bet she learned from them is third.
I don’t think Joyce is elbowing her mom in the first panel. If you go back to yesterday her mother has her hands on Joyce’s shoulders; a sort of possessive posture. I think Joyce has just rolled her shoulders forward (and possibly taken a step away?) to get her mother’s hands off of her in order to turn around and deliver her speech. In my opinion, any elbow to Carol’s chest is purely unintentional.
The look on her father’s face in panel two is the first realization that his little girl is never going to be just his little girl again.
I like how, despite everyone’s assumption joyce will choose her freinds over religeon to go against her parent’s forced control of her life, her reasons are religeous as well as freindship.
so her mother really has no grounds to complain/ I have no doubt she will, but yeah…
I just wanted to say, publicly, that this comic is absolutely amazing. It’s been some time since I have actually laughed aloud while reading something. Not only that but, as a college student, so many of these characters can be related to in so many ways.
I just recently discovered this comic and told myself I was just going to read a few panels or so before going to bed. However, without even realizing it, I stayed up all night just to catch up. I love the story. I love the characters. And I can’t wait to see where the story goes.
Now that my avatar is Amber, I feel the need to say something amazing, but Joyce beat me to it.
I’m sure her parents may turn around and quote something from the Old Testament, but there’s something in one of the Gospels where Jesus essentially says “Follow me, for I trump the Old Testament in authority” which Joyce can use as retaliation. (It’s been a while so I can’t recall the exact passage.) And don’t forget the “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” passage, too.
(And I say this as an openly bisexual born-again pagan, too. Some Christians hate it when a pagan can argue with Bible quotes.)
I’m sure Mr. Brown will say something along the lines of, “Even the Devil quotes scripture when it serves his own interests,” further cementing his place as the second worst father in the strip. It’s a line I’ve heard many times.
I remember that bit every time I see a religion based pundit/politician quote OT as why they should have bigoted laws. They think they are Good Christians when if they were they would be basing their beliefs off of the the NT. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and it existed just to prove man could not be holy without Him is what I was raised on.
Yeah, I was raised in a family that had Harvest Parties instead of Halloween, etc…
I really like how Joyce is rebelling against her parents without directly rebelling against the moral beliefs they taught her. It shows that she probably picked up on details during their homeschooling that they either weren’t trying to teach her or didn’t believe she’d take notice of.
In addition to getting a broader perspective from spending real time with real people in the real world of course.
Joyce’s religion is a big part of her character, and I think this might be one of the first pages where her religion isn’t used to show how naïve or crazy it can make people or how dangerous it can make people who are already crazy.
Joyce’s moral and religious upbringing is a *MASSIVE* part of her character. And there is not one damned thing wrong with that (see Proverbs 31:10-12). If I could have found a girlfriend like Joyce I would have married her in a heartbeat.
Jesus H. Costanza, the balls on that girl. Good for you, imaginary girl that doesn’t exist yet inspires hope in me that this occasionally happens in real life!
Well whaddya know? Joyce grew some balls. I especially like how she turns her parents’ own literature against them. I still don’t like her, but I respect her a little more now.
Have to see if my grav has shifted, but this is not done. The parents will retaliate.
Hard to ‘win’ against someone proof texting. There is no end to reductionist quotes. Her parents have spent decades building a separatist sect where the two of them are the only certain Christians. That won’t change in 30 seconds. Plus their pastor would probably back them up. I know Benny 16th would have.
Because it kinda irks me when I see people abuse or be ignorant about this relation whether intentionally or no, all Catholics are Christians, just as all Baptists and all Methodists are Christians, not all Christians fit into those given subsets… well unless you’re high in the orders of the Catholic church where the idea has traditionally been that all Christianity, even those who have strayed from the Roman Church’s views, are still part of their flock.
Well no, of course not. It’s like how all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. The issue they’re talking about is that some of the rectangles have decided that the squares don’t count as rectangles.
There were twelve people standing around when all this went down. There are at least eight of them who are probably wishing that they were anywhere other than there right this very minute.
And so the church mouse finally roars. I’M SO PROUD OF YOU JOYCE! You stood your grounding and rebelled against your parents using the same logic and teachings that they brought you up on. Even though you were scared, you did what you thought was right based on YOUR belief, not just because “Mommy & daddy said so”. *sniffles* I’m so happy….& knowing Walky he’ll probably step in and make things unnecessarily awkward…that or her big brother shows up. Hoping for the latter on this one cause this is a HUGE turning point for Joyce!
Standing by your morals WIN.
Being the best model of Christianity in the fact of twisted versions even if it makes people initially think you’re a bit simple WIN.
Also, she might actually be Captain America in disguise.
Tomorrow’s strip:
Joyce’s dad: “Joyce, stop! You’re twisting Jesus’ words to selfishly suit you own purpose!”
(Walky’s head explodes because he has a low irony threshhold)
Ethan: “Nooo, the cute caramel boy died!”
Everyone else (in unison): “Oh shit, now I get it. Are you gay?”
Thursday’s strip:
(cut to a 20-strip story about Joe and his dad picking up chicks since we don’t have enough storylines hanging on cliffs)
I went to vote “My favoritest webcomic” on the poll just now, only to be told I had already done that. Well, I think after reading a strip like this I should be allowed to vote it as many times as I darned well please.
Seriously though, It’s stuff like this that keeps me coming back here without fail every morning. I love these characters!
Joyce’s religious belief is still cherry-picking, but to be honest, there’s no version of Christianity that doesn’t engage in cherry-picking. And I’m reminded of something I read in a book, once. What is good and just does not happen so often that we should quibble especially much over the details when it does happen.
I sense this to be laying the groundwork for a future strip, which will justify itself with the old “judge not, lest ye be judged”.
Which is one of, if not the most abused passage by liberals today.
It’s a bad translation for today’s english usage. It would be better translated as, “condemn not, lest ye also be condemned”.
The bible calls us to “judge” between what is right and what is wrong all the time.
Nor does lack of condemning something, mean that it is now okay to condone the biblically wrong behaviour.
From the beginning of this comic, I’ve had an extreme dislike for Joyce. I knew her character arc was about realizing how narrow her views were, but it didn’t stop me from despising her. As horrible as it sounds (and no, I would never react like this in real life) even the attempted rape only made her a bit more sympathetic. The dislike was that strong. This, though? This I can appreciate. Some of her actions still annoy the hell out of me, but I can’t claim to hate her anymore. Kudos, Willis.
If you look up the definition of moral, it says nothing about religion. Just knowing the difference between right and wrong.
Somehow Dorothy had a stronger moral foundation than the elder Browns.
I dunno. I dated a guy for a couple years who was fairly religious while I was and am atheistic. It worked for us because we respected each other’s beliefs…although he was always a bit nervous for me. He actually called me “godless heathen” as a form of endearment. ^_^
We stopped ages ago but remain very good friends.
Now then… does this give her parents pause for thought, or is there doom? The second would perhaps be more convenient if one wants to break her completely out of her familiar place in life, but the first would be more emotionally satisfying. Either way, there should be various interestingness.
Willis, you magnificent bastard… Had us all thinking that it was time for the Thrilla in – er, Bloomington, and Joyce/you went and took a stand for maturity and “do the right thing, even if it hurts”. Well played, sir, well played.
I wonder how I would be if I was in this universe. I would personally try my best to be a funny, random, mediating background character who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I know Joyce is a fictional character…but I’m still impressed by the strength of her devotion to her friend that flies so much in the face of her familial upbringing.
I really love this. Joyce’s faith has been at her character’s core for the whole series, but it has mostly been the source of her fear and frustration. Here we see her using her faith in (what I feel is) the best way; as a source of personal power and guidance. A weaker story would have had Joyce abandon her faith altogether, but this isn’t a narrative about the evil of religion. It’s a story about personal growth and maturation, where growth never has to mean destruction of who you truly are.
In retrospect there are some hurt feelings both directions in regard to that. Both of Joyce’s parents got upset the first time with Dorothy’s folks all proud about how their daughter had carefully researched and came to the logical conclusion that atheism was best for her. Which to me came out sounding “we’re so proud of our daughter, she didn’t buy into your whole invisible man in the sky myth.” They didn’t mean it like that, but you have to be careful how you treat other people’s faith. Now Joyce is using her faith in a higher power as a confirmation on why she and Dorothy are friends. And it comes off a lot better than “I’ll hang out with who I want, you’re not the boss of me.” I’m just surprised that people keep thinking that Joyce’s parents are going to cut her off for standing her ground. If they wanted to control her forever, they would have either not sent her to a public college, or contrived some way to keep her close to home. Of course, Joyce disowned by her parents equates to more satisfying drama, so anything is possible.
Awwww, Joyce is blossoming into a light world Martin Luther! When he was less of a shitty person! And actually this analogy is falling apart help me out here guys!
I can’t believe I got so far behind on DoA, but man am I sad I missed this when it first launched a few days ago. I am SO SO SO proud of Joyce! *happy dance*
“For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.”
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Well damn. Go Joyce.
On another note, anyone else miss the days when Joyce’s parents were just kinky pervs ‘stead of just Bible thumping dicks?
Why can’t they be both?
Plot twist!
They can. Those qualities quite often go together.
Yes, from my experience they just keep it behind closed doors.
Which is actually less honest.
Not without precedent IRL.
Well we haven’t heard the word “grandchildren” yet
Ethan’s parents have that one covered, it looks like.
Yes, but they’re not hilarious about it
This thread is too cheerful. I must add more Ruth.
… dammit, Willis! I lost my Ruth! 🙁
You can’t handle the Ruth!
Oh wow. Gravatar lottery win!
Wait, so the gravatars switch every so often?
Yep! Whenever Willis puts in another possible avvy. (Mine was Galasso before)
I’m Batman.
How did I get Ethan?
I went from Mary to Mike. Apparently the comments thinks I’m a jerk.
Just a gravity test.
hmm
goin’ all the way back here to test grav one more time…
are you freaking serious, I just de-linked this email, how can this be
Oh great did mine change too?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Ooh who am I?
Oooh, ooh, me too!
I normally don’t comment but I want to see who I got as well.
I’m not Dina anymore?!
Huh
I fucked all your moms
So I’m no longer Mike but that comment seems equally valid coming from Jacob….
Hey, I want to be part of the group!
Big money big money no whammy no whammy STOP!
WOOHOO! This is an acceptable representation of my awesomeness.
See, now I have to test to see who mine is too…
*taps mic*
^^
Boop boop a doop
That’s what I’m wondering.
Well damn
Now I’m curious about what mine is.
Standard Gravatar Check
Hmm, testing… testing…
Me too?
Jumpin’ on the bandwagon.
That was a rather appropriate comment for my new local Gravatar…
No whammy, no whammy… STOP!
… Mary? Ugh… damn you, Willis. orz
I’m STILL Batman.
What’d I get!? What’d I get!?
wait, what did you say was your name, Man dressed like a bat?
Mary? Goddamnit.
Great, now I need to check mine.. I’m gonna miss Joe if I didn’t get him again..
I’m far too curious to not try and find out who I am.
Well then.
Who am I now?
Just wanted to check my new grav with my old email (goin’ back to Josh after this).
YAY I’M AMBER
been a bit, what do i get now?
This is my new favorite comment thread.
(What did I get?!?)
Testing, testing.
I have my own assigned graphic, so I don’t get to play gravitar roulette.
OMG, You’re Ruthless!
Wait….don’t tell me I lost the Might GELASSO’S PIZZA (and subs)
YES!! New gravatars! Finally!
what did I get?!?!?!
Every day with Joyce reminds me that she has more balls then Danny.
the delicious irony
somehow it is still ironic
Badminton has more balls than Danny.
I see what you did there. 🙂
And I’m Joe now. :-\ I liked being Dorothy.
But the new gravatar matched your line perfectly!
“Plain Awful” has more balls than Danny
(yes, that’s a Scrooge McDuck reference)
SCORE 1 For Joyce AND Jezus!
She’d like that.
This is the first time I’ve had any respect for Joyce
Seriously? You’ve never found occasion to respect Joyce before?
I… I don’t actually have a response to that.
Your avatar, with your response, made me giggle. Not your comment alone.
(BTW, I think Joyce has been respectable before)
Typically when Joyce acts respectable, within three comics she goes has says something/reacts in some way that causes us to collectively smack our foreheads. So I’ll just wait a bit before committing my respect, I think.
Being derpy and being naive doesn’t have to mean being impossible to respect on other accounts.
I don’t mean anything against Joyce, but I can’t think of any particular accounts to respect her for. Aside from, say, basic human decentness.
I suppose I had some respect when she hit the guy in the face with her glass but it faded quickly enough I don’t count it
I’m going to have to agree with you here. It’s one of the few comics with Joyce that don’t leave me cringing.
Do you refer solely to DoA Joyce, or to overall Walkyverse Joyce?
I’ve only had the time to read this one so DoA universe joyce
oh jolly good joyce. you’ve managed a tiny flicker of redemption. now maybe get some proper open-mindedness and you’ll have managed to reach the maturity level MOST people manage by late adolescence.
Yes, you go right on being encouraging.
Joyce has shown more maturity and self-possession than basically anyone else in the entire cast; I don’t know what you think you’re talking about, dude, but might I also add that sarcastic belittling isn’t normally viewed as particularly mature either.
Let me know when you reach the maturity level of not equating adherence to your personal beliefs with maturity
Yes, because it’s all about you, little one.
Given what we’ve seen of the parenting she has received, I’m actually impressed that she isn’t even more messed up at this point.
Roz avatar checks out…
People who don’t have a vested interest in believing the Bible see it as an obviously internally inconsistent document. This is why it has become a mostly true cliché to say that you can use the Bible to argue anything.
For example, that part about Matthew 10:37 about loving your parents more than Jesus seems to contradict the Fourth (or Fifth, depending on how you count) Commandment: “Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.”
And of course, her parents could always come back with 2 Corinthians 6:14-16, “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: ‘I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.’ Therefore ‘Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you.’ “
Corinthians is the word of Paul in his Epistle to the Corinthians. Joyce is calling upon the word of Jesus as reported in the Gospels. Paper covers rock! Hah!
(I love the various theses out there that state Paul was actually the Antichrist.)
Given that Paul and his adaptation/advertisement/management of Christianity is the only reason that any of you have heard about Christ at all, as opposed to it dying away as the cult that Jews rejected and that gentiles went ‘Dietary laws? Circumcision? EWW’ at, I find the idea of him being the antichrist hilarious.
There are so, so many ways Paul being the antichrist would be hilarious. 🙂
Also, it’s safe to say that Christianity as we know it today is heavily influenced by Paul — possibly to the point of contradicting the religion it was pre-Paul — but it was a pretty solidly entrenched cult when Saul changed his name. Whether it would have grown into something as significant to Western culture is debatable, but it’s unlikely it would have been forgotten. Gentile conversions predated Paul, and though Acts ascribes the laying aside of circumcision as coming from Paul’s urging, Peter was also said to be a proponent.
Also, um… Billie… stuff! And things!
Peter was *said* to be a proponent, but whether those accounts are reliable are another matter. Acts does its best to pretend that the early church was in agreement in everything and wasn’t fractured all to hell, but Paul’s authentic letters tell a slightly different story. If Paul hadn’t converted the Gentiles, it’s very possible Christianity would have died when Rome wiped Jerusalem off the face of the earth in 70AD.
Ehh… debatable, it was already well established in the Diaspora even without Paul. It probably would have been subsumed into Rabbinic Judaism as the latter began to dominate the post-temple Jewish landscape. Jesus may have gotten a minor mention in the Talmud (though that’s doubtful).
Sorry, I know it’s a stretch, just a fun topic to speculate about, for me anyway.
I don’t think the Anti-Christ was a concept that was recorded until long after Paul was dead.
(Most folks overlook the fact that the concept of the “anti-christ” wasn’t about a specific individual anyway, but a general term for anyone who denies Jesus’ divinity, which is definitely not something which describes Paul.)
Her parents couldn’t come back with that. It’s what they started with.
I’d think the fact that she cited the second part of the Great Commandment pretty much wipes out their ability to retort with anything from Paul.
Mark 12:29-31
29 “And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Yeaaaaahhh.. but the whole thing about your comparisons is that you compared the teachings of Christ to 1) the old testament, which was meant to be supplanted by the new teachings, and 2) a letter from the Apostle Paul who never even met Jesus. So yeah, the first one is MEANT to be contradictory.. and the second one is simply bound to be contradictory. As a Christian, one should look first to the actual teachings of Christ.
(I’m an atheist but grew up in the church.)
Only the Epistles speak about Jesus bringing a “new covenant” which supplants the old one. According to the Gospels, Jesus himself stated that he did not come here to abolish the Law, and that even the least of the Law will remain in play until heaven and earth disappear.
The historical Jesus was Jewish, and a very law-abiding one at that. But those who wrote about him later tried to downplay this in favor of a theology that was more friendly to the Gentiles.
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled…”
The thoughts in this are roughly:
– I’m not here to abolish it.
– Until it’s fulfilled OR this, it applies.
– I’m here to fulfil this.
I’m not trying to argue with you; I don’t really know what this means. But it doesn’t seem to mean exactly what you’re saying here.
Well it really depends on how one interprets the law itself. This was hardly a settled thing in Jesus’ day. The Pharisees, for example, were actually a breakaway group who thought that the high priesthood wasn’t doing it right (may have been one of the groups that would later become the Rabbis in the post-second temple period).
For example, he certainly DID break sabbath law, as the Pharisees interpreted it through both healing and other actions (allowing his disciples to gather grain). In the grain example, pretty much any interpretation of the Bible holds that gathering wheat on the sabbath is verboten.
I think what we fail to understand that the “Law” as we see it today is often very, very opaque and was so in the Second Temple Period. If it the law *was* easy to translate into daily life, then the Talmud probably wouldn’t exist and the Rabbis wouldn’t have spent a millenium or so building up ideas of how exactly to understand what the law means for everybody (making it more complex in the process, but that’s not the point).
So saying Jesus was a “law abiding” man of his day is inherently problematic, because that assumes that one could be universally acknowledged as law-abiding.
The Pharisees were probably the group Jesus was closest in agreement to at the time, despite the many stories the Bible tells us where the two clash. Both Jesus and the Pharisees believed the Sadducees were a runaway corrupt elite, and most of Judea at the time seemed to agree with that outlook. But what Jesus and the Pharisees agreed most on was that the Law was incredibly important and that a righteous man must uphold it as faithfully as possible. Jesus only seemed to differ in his belief of which were most important — he put taking care of other people above everything else, as loving your neighbor as yourself (and the lord your god with all your heart and mind and soul yadda yadda) were the greatest of commandments. But this doesn’t mean Jesus didn’t follow the Law. What that that law specifically was is, I think, a red herring in this discussion. He certainly would not have tossed out the entire Old Testament, as Christians tend to believe is the case.
Every decent holy book says everything and therefore nothing.
This could come from two reasons – life itself is not entirely consistent and lessons are therefore not all encompassing. Short and digestible saying have limited applications that should only be applied intelligently and situationally. Otherwise it would all be a giant “If, then, else, else, else, …” statement.
Or, for non-believers it lets con-men have something to say in any situation.
Either way, while Joyce was again motivated by self-interest instead of what is purely right, she finally took a stand. (She wouldn’t do this for Walky or Ruth, for instance.)
She is also right, because the way her parents act, they would only push non-believers further away from God. Their pride and (self) righteousness in their belief would actually do the work of the devil by preventing or delaying possible conversion.
Bible thumping dicks – now that would be a pron worth seeing,
Thumping bibles is the gateway drug to hardcore kink. First you’re making the pages of 1 John stick to 2 John, next you’re chasing kidnapped transexual Thai hookers while dressed as Twilight Sparkle with a dildo replacing the horn.
Whoa.
Right on.
http://i.imgur.com/pXBrf.gif
Why would you do that?
DAYUUUUUUUUM
GIT ‘EM
Joyce used Retaliate!! CRITICAL HIT!!!
JOYCE’S PARENTS died horribly in a fire! …I mean fainted! JOYCE gained 666 xp! JOYCE grew to level 20! What? JOYCE is evolving! Congratulations! JOYCE evolved into A PRETTY DAMNED DECENT CHRISTIAN! JOYCE learned VERBAL bongo SLAP!
Verbal bongo Slap – Pwr = 45, Acc = 95, null against Soundproof.
What type move is a Verbal bongo Slap? I would guess normal but that seems too boring…
Psychic, I’d think.
Go with fire…since her parents got burned.
“I’m confused at your decision to rebel” Joyce’s Dad
“We’re very proud of you for doing the right thing (even when we couldn’t see it for our blinding bigotry)” Joyce’s Mom – yeah, right
Good on her but you can see just how much this is killing her. I hope Dorothy gives her a needed hug after.
Of course Dorothy never misses a chance to wrap her arms around Joyce.
She’s so soft and she smells good!
I think I read that in a lemon somewhere.
I’m sure in someone’s fanfic Dorothy truly repays her sacrifice and struggle with pie.
Apple pie.
Pumpkin please.
Cherry pie.
Oh Lord, two in a row here…
hair pie!
NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRDDDDDSSSSS!
And drive a wedge between Joyce and her parents by letting the latter fear for the former’s faith in the arms of the devil? That’s quite the reason she tried to back off in panel 2. Now she’s fucked with a lot of responsibility no matter what she does.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ︵ ┻━┻
So good the table did a double flip
Proverbs 18:18
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
[flips table back over]
If you guys flip ALL the tables, where are we gonna eat?
Why you eating at a money-changing table
Why wouldn’t he/she?
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ︵ ┬─┬
SKILLZ
I always eat at the counter at Taco Bell.
I used to do that, but they started to complain about me bringing in food from better restaurants.
Your gravitar is totally fitting for that comment. +1 Internets. 😉
Speaking of, my manager wanted to know if you wouldn’t mind taking your pizza boxes with you when you leave.
Why would you ever go to Taco Bell? They’re the worst fast food place I’ve ever been to.
timemonkey, this is a bit off topic, but i wanted to say I love the Reboot theme gravatar! thats the virus hexidecimal right?
Because burritos.
That’s you?!
Why must you do that to us?
What do you think the money’s getting changed into?
It’s not called a green salad for nothing.
This table has been redeemed!
(╯°Д°）╯︵/(.□ . \)
Do you have any idea how filthy money is? Use eating tables for eating!
Wow, I just got the superstition that it’s bad luck to put money or keys on the dining room table.
One would hope you aren’t eating off the table. I guess some people set the silverware on the table rather than the plate though.
I’ve never seen silverware set on the plate, except after the plate has been cleared. The plate’s raised edges would cause the utensils to slide sideways into the food!
Well, in the time when such superstitions emerged, plates was a luxury. An indentation in the table would serve just as well, and give the food an interesting aftertaste of hundred-soup ingrained wood.
Never heard of indentations in a table being used in lieu of dishes. Trenchers, (hollowed out dry bread) sure, but not indentations in the table. Source?
Only squares eat at tables.
Joyce just got biblical on her family.
Joyce *stayed* biblical, even after her parents strayed from the narrow path!
Her parents could’ve stayed equally biblical and countered that they are supposed to slay those who do not accept Jesus as their king. (Luke 19:27) The Bible is very practical that way.
Try reading the first part of the passage (Luke 19: 12 thru 27). When you cite just one line of the Bible and do it out of context, you can warp it to any position you wish.
For some reason this reminds me of an episode of Fairly Odd Parents, where there’s a court case for whether or not Cosmo should stay a godparent.
ROLL THE REST OF THE CLIP!!!
THANK you. People who misquote scripture to condemn Christianity are no better than those who misquote scripture to support bigoted views.
The number of people who have read or attempted to understand the bible seems to be quite small. This is the case with both “believers” and “nonbelievers.” Seems like it is a combination or literal interpretations* of random passages and whatever non-cannon source is the easiest to find. I don’t condemn Christianity, but I condemn what *some* people have done with it. It is easy to characterize a whole group by the nosiest people in said group.
*with a bias towards what they want to say.
gonna have to disagree there – intellectually, they’re just as flawed, and I wouldn’t trust them with any power, but those who condemn Christianity on bad readings of the Bible 1) are often taking those readings from Christians. Very very public Christians. And 2) don’t usually manage to apply those bad readings to laws, creating a situation where, for example, homosexuality is considered a thing which can be legislated against, or contraception is not available, or married women cannot hold jobs.
OH MY GOODNESS I AM DINA! EVERYTHING IS EXCELLENT.
Look at the previous verse; Jesus is quoting a parable, not giving a commandment.
And here I was hoping she would go medieval on them!
…still good though.
I was hoping she’d go Monkey Master on them. That’s the one true religion.
Do not listen to this heathen! Dexter is the one true prophet!
His true name is the Head Alien! “Dexter” is heresy!
You break the first commandment, to stay within the bounds if the continuity! Dexter is thus his one true name!
He was “Head Alien” in the original comics, which were way better than the cartoon. The cartoon was funny, but lost a lot of the drama and edgy humor of the comics. If Joyce’s parents thought the cartoon promoted a culture of snark…
You know, In yesterdays last panel I was feeling an echo of Monkey Master’s final defiance of Head Alien toward the end of It’s Walky. Maybe it was just the shirt.
Oh Joyce, baby! [hugs] You did good!
Oooh shit. This is going DOWN!
That… was handled much more maturely than I thought.
I was expecting far more blood.
That sounds Mature. I wouldn’t want my kids watchin’ that.
This comment implies you have kids… I’m very scared now.
Naw, I would need money and a female to get those. I have neither.
You don’t need money or a female to have a kid, all you need is a playground and the ability to outrun the kid’s biological family.
…What?
wait for it… wait for it…
Nah, just tears. (Poor Joyce. Everyone’s terrified the first time they stand up to their parents.)
Mr. Rodgers approves of this neighborly love.
Fun fact: Mr. Rogers was a minister.
(Unless that’s what you were getting at in which case I apologize for ruining the joke)
Joyce stop being adorable. It’s too early in the morning for this much feels.
Now it’s not. Yay Joyce
Also, she brought out the finger wagging!
Nothing says “you should be ashamed” more than a good finger waggling!
And a good finger wagging has other uses too.
SayNoMore SayNoMore, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, Say NO MORE!
No more….there I said it now stop pressuring me.
I SALUTE TO YOU, JOYCE!!!
BOOM! They’ve just been Bibled! Religioned? Theologized?
Bible-bashed!
Just got owned BC STYLE!!
Proselytized? I realise it’s not really applicable, but it sounds cool.
Try Religiowned.
Oh dear God that was terrible. Forgive me.
Have an internets.
Agreed. Have an additional internets.
I, too, am awarding internets to this statement. Enjoy.
Four! Four internets! Ah ah ah!!
“Five?”
“Three, sir!”
“Three!”
You put that back! (takes 2 internets for the indiscretion)
Five. Five internets for you.
There is no forgiveness for that. *Yoink* No need to forgive something awesome enough to steal, lol
Good news: I think forgiveness is also addressed in the Bible.
Holy burned?
Gospeled!
Biblowned.
No! No! I get a do over! A do-over, I say.
Ahem….I think….they just got crucified!
Bam! I’m out!
They just got SUNDAY SCHOOLED!
Ladies and Gents, we have a winner. They got SUNDAY SCHOOLED.
I second Sunday Schooled.
Sunday Schooled, casting my vote for this and awarding Kitschensyngk one Internet.
Yeah, let’s go with that
Joyce Wins. Flawless Victory. Bibality.
Fatwality.
They got Jesus’d. Jesus’d right in the face.
To paraphrase Linkara, “Joyce wins, THEOLOGY.”
Well damn.
I doubt they can find a way to refute that.
Im glad she shut them down, yesterday i just wanted to punch both of them in the face so bad…
I am sure they could. Dueling bible quotes is popular on religious debate. The question is whether they will or not. Willis could go a ways towards not having the Browns be totally hated by having them back down a little here.
Or could have then hold fast and save that all for when Joshua comes out to them.
Having been rereading some OOTS recently I got bible-quote dueling and pun-dueling crossed in my mind and it’s doing terrible, terrible things.
“Love thy HAYMAKER!”
I feel bad, mostly because I see Joyce’s dad’s face. It’ stone face of a father that’ sabot to shut the discussion because it’s not going his way. He’ll end it and he’ll win, if not by being right, then by having more power.
The most common way to refute it – and trust me from experience – is “Well, yeah, but you’re wrong.”
“… because we’re your parents!”
I HATE that line I truly do.
Be interesting when they pull out the bit about stoning your disobedient children.
This is the best, wisest thing I have ever heard Joyce say.
I thought it was, “Th-this is the most perfect thing I’ve ever seen” (In reference to MM)
To be fair, this counts as that as well.
You go Joyce!
Awww Joyce! You did it! Yay! *throws confetti*
Please don’t ruin this Willis.
Are we talking about the same Willis here?
Wow…
Looks like all that learning her parents put into her is coming back to bite them in the ass.
More like: “Bible” them in the ass 🙂
More like smite them in the ass. HEY-YO!
Have an Internet
“Why couldn’t we have just recited SOME verses to her instead of letting her read the whole thing?”
Your gravatar perfectly fits your comment.
Pretty sure I just said “ohhhhhhh snap.” Out loud. Alone. In my hotel room.
Hotel Room? Can you order us some room service?
Willis already provided the fan service…
I don’t see boobs anywhere.
Then you’re not believing hard enough.
Your avatar. Perfect.
See, Joyce haters, this is why we love Joyce.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
Crap, ninja’d by Jen Aside XD
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Please control yourself.
You’re doing a service to your country, Fezzam. One table at a time.
Down with the system! *tries to flip table, fails*
Go Joyce! Take religion and use it against them since they feel it’s alright to do the same.
and this my friends is why college is a great thing.
+7000
*+9000
My scanners are malfunctioning!!!!!!!
My scouter just exploded…
Tristian what does the scanner say about Mattayos’ comment?
I dunno. They still don’t have reccess. Or nap time.
All the time is naptime in college.
And recess too.
And I have the grades to prove it.
Yay for Joyce, but seriously, it is totally everyone except samaritans. Screw those guys.
(J.K)
*Slow claps for Joyce*
*claps a little faster*
*Builds up a faster clap*
*Stands up and begins clapping wildly*
*lotsa claps, lotsa wooping, chanting of Joyce starts*
*tears up and cheers loudly*
*breaks down and weeps with happiness*
Wht are they now singing?
Do you hear the people sing? Singing a song of angry men?
*joins the clapping* Someone. Dies. For this. Slowly.
Seriously, somebody find Arlo P. Arlo and destroy the socialistic.
Slowclapmatic*, stupid autocorrect.
THE FORCE IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE.
Joyce! Joyce! Joyce! Joyce!
*goes all avatar fan, foamy mouth and everything*
Claps hand into non-existance.
*gets beaned with a telephone receiver*
Clapping Intensifies!
-standing ovation-
Wow. Go Joyce!
Dumbiverse Joyce is slowly but surely becoming as awesome as Walkyverse Joyce, and i am pleased 🙂
Where’s her bazooka?
She has booby brows. Just what do you expect form her!??
Give her some time, she’ll pick one up.
Willis, we need a paintball episode, STAT.
Holy crap this strip is punctual. And the commenters even more so.
We are the perfect party guests. We arrive right on time.
OOOOOOOOOOOOO
I see Joyce paid more attention to the spirit rather than the rules. This is a good thing.
The HOLY spirit!
And the holy spirit squad. They cheer for jesus. (Imagine Gary’s cheerleaders but holier)
I now wait for Joyce to 1-up Billie in cheer leading. Every week is spirit week to Joyce!
Don’t you hate when your defense for your children is using the bible and then they somehow get better at it than you.
That is the WORST. Why can’t we just manipulate people forever?!
That’s why I’m putting brain slugs on my kids.
I thought the slugs where agressive, but then they live robot boxing, so they can’t be all bad.
The Browns will start the new Yeerk Empire to control the disbelievers from espousing their ideas.
Then Joe, Walky, Joyce, Dorothy and Danny will gain the ability to morph animals, and Danny will get stuck in a really dumb morph because no one ever told him there was a two hour limit.
She started out strong and started to lose her nerve a bit, but is able to finish her piece of mind. Glad to see it! Hopefully it won’t get completely shot down, but I feel like even if it does, it will actually reinforce her thoughts that her parents are wrong.
Parents still have the trump card of removing her from college though. 😡
Dorothy’s parents might decide to pay her tuition.
I doubt she can’t get a scholarship. she is an avid student if memory serves.
Avidity is nice for class grades, but only takes you so far regarding scholarships.
If this happens, and they do, then my estimation of their greatness as parents shall triple.
I don’t think they have that much money available.
Billie does and she learned buying affection and respect at the feet of masters!
Might. But seriously, if they are paying for their daughter to go to college, why would they continue after so much backtalk? Looks like Sarah’s gonna lose another roommate to me.
I realize it’s a meta rationale, but I really doubt Willis is going to take steps that would permanently remove one of the primary protagonists from DoA.
They could also always find something else to withhold from her.
My dad, for instance, wasn’t able to take college away from me so he tried to take first my car away from me, and then [successfully] took health insurance away from me by removing me from his info.
I don’t know if that’s really something that can happen anymore, but it might be. I don’t know if parents have an obligation to keep their child on their own health insurance after they’re 18, even with the new Affordable Care Act.
There are never any handy tables to flip over when you really need them. 😀
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
NIIIIIICE! =(^_^)=
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Gosh guys. Stop making a mess!
I got this one, Fezzam.
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Now we’re back in equilibrium.
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Equilibrium is overrated
Not if you mean the awesome gun fu movie.
””*┬-( º _ ºノ)
Oh yeah, how ’bout now? ┻~ \(ಠ益ಠ)/ ~┻
OMG HE JUST RIPPED THE TABLE IN TWO PIECES!!!!
Go Joyce!
This might be one of the most Christian things I’ve ever seen in a comic with fundamental evangelists. She’s…actually applying Jesus to her modern day life instead of the Old Testament. She’s keeping her faith (an important part of her) while respectfully disagreeing with her parents and her friend.
It says a lot about the world that I’m genuinely taken aback by this.
Seems more like it speaks more to the modern portrayal of fundamentalism…
I’ve met many people like Joyce in my life, but not everyone gets the chance to show how they actually treat people. It starts with “I’m Christian” and ends when the other person bashes Christianity, religions in general, and anyone who might believe differently than them, and walks away from their friend, and then blames the Christian.
I’ve seen that more times than I’ve seen a cruel Christian, and I’ve seen LOTS of cruel Christians. (And lots more who were accidentally cruel because they had no socialization outside of their own beliefs)
Perhaps because of the encounters with cruel ‘Christians’ you see more of the ‘other person bashes…’. Stop the cruel ‘Christians’ and you should see less of the OPB. But I prefer how Joyce handles the cruel ‘Christians’ here today 🙂
It’s not that simple. Do you really think someone like Dawkins will tone it down even a little?
Joyce’s parents: Congratulations, you passed.
I like that she ended by referencing her dad’s jerky prayer about Joyce making the right decisions. Well played, Joyce. Also, by extension–WELL PLAYED, WILLIS.
When her dad was making that jerky prayer, I noted that Joyce was the one listening to what J.C. and his dad said. Nice to know I called it.
Hoooo…lyyyyyyyy……shit.
Emphasis, of course, on the “hoooo…lyyyyyyy”.
Oh Joyce
*sniff*
Well done (to both the character and the creator).
Crowning moment of both heartwarmin and awesome
Wish more people of faith acted like Joyce.
oh s**t, I take yesterday’s statement back. that dialogue was fantastic
Something tells me Joyce’s parents won’t take this too well
I am in tears. Why can’t more people be like this? I am so proud of Joyce.
WHAM! BAM! THANK YOU MA’AM!!!
THAT WAS SO DAMN SATISFYING!!!
It will not produce any visible change in Joyce’s parents, of course, but hey. Moral victory for her.
That phrase you used… I do no’ think it means wha’ you think it means.
*Standing ovation*
*LOUD APPLAUSE*
You go, Joyce!
And this is how you use your Bible!
The Mary avatar actually makes this comment funny! 😀
And now it’s not Mary…thus rending my Comment moot!
Hell, I was Dinah when I posted. My Avatar has changed repeatedly, and when I try to add a Gravatar it doesn’t work. 😛
I want SodoMuffin back!
I don’t think I’ve ever been more proud of Joyce than right now. Go Joyce!
Joyce, I am so proud of you! And you too, Willis. Wish more people were like this instead of using their Bible to exclude others.
THIS IS THE THING I WANTED OMGWTFLOLROFLJPGGIFTGIFWWJDSTFULGBTQBRBTTYLG2G
I hate myself for translating that entire string without needing to look it up.
I love myself for it. Though it would have been nice to throw in a BBQ.
I’m confused by JPG. Jpeg? Images? And GIF image? Why?
I don’t understand either GIFT or TGIF …
TGIF = THank God It’s Friday
My God, Joyce is my hero now. It takes a lot of courage to do something like that
Joyce uses Biblical Literacy. It is (so far) super-effective.
Who is your gravatar? The art is like half Dr. Seuss, half Chuck Jones.
Sheesh, too many comments tonight. I’m not sure if I can take it.
So of course you add another. :p
Sure because too many is really not enough!
All I needed to know in life, I learned from watching MTV promos.
Alright, way to get it right Joyce!
I was hoping for more eye-lasers.
Joyce just used Bible and it was super-effective! She’s put her parents in their place and handed them their metaphorical asses using their own freakin’ Scriptures! That’s more epic than eye-lasers if you ask me.
In related news -everyone’s flipping tables! O_O
Seriously, Joyce is being awesome. The more so because it’s obviously hard for her to do it, but she’s doing it anyway because it’s the right thing to do.
And apparently I’m Joyce now. This is kind of weird. I’d gotten used to being Angry Billie.
And speaking of awesomeness, we need to get Leslie in here to help with all this table-flipping.
Aaaaand now I’m Dorothy.
And now back to Billie, but not as angry.
I may have to register a gravatar just so I can find my own comments later.
(repeat last keystroke to find additional comments)
>ctrl-fjohnenter<
THEN what I said above. Stupid comment box, being confused by my fake tags. 😛
jesus christ, i give up, just ignore me entirely lol
But laser-precise Biblical quotations!
(╯°□°）╯(╯°□°）╯(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ┻━┻ ┻━┻
1. Where did you find all these tables?
2. How did you flip all of them perfectly?
3. Can I have a cookie?
1. The Internet had a sale.
2. It’s in the wrists. 🙂
3. No… You can have ALL the cookies! XD
Jacob has a gravatar now! omfg!
aw, why does danny have to ruin everything
Because he’s Danny.
┬─┬ ︵ っ( 。□。っ)
Wow! I see what you did there, Jen Aside!
Welcome to Mother Russia.
What is with all the table flipping? This is not a table flipping situation. There is no raging. Not even any accusations of blasphemy to account for a ‘money changers in the temple’ reference.
I believe this is an “Dungeon Dilemma: You’re world got rocked!” moment. (from Wario Ware Inc.)
http://youtu.be/rf72m4TaWEM?t=8m27s
Perhaps you should pay more attention to the Alt Text comments on the comic. 🙂 (in other words– hover your mouse over the comic until words appear)
I continue to view on my banana phone.
OK let’s see
Stood up to parents √
Used secret weapon(bible) against them √
Be the voice of reason and logic√
Well I say she has won the argument before it started any eneything else to say…I didn’t think soo
Joyce’s Mom: …See? She has been a bad influence on you.
Joyce’s Dad: I can see it was a bad idea to enroll you hear. There’s just too much secular corruption these days. We’re pulling you out and putting you in a good christian college.
(Not that I’m predicting this, but it is a possibility.)
Ah lahd jesus give this woman the power….THE POWER TO JOIN CULTERS ATHEIST AND CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH TOGETHER
*Joyce drops mic, walks out of universe*
Speaking a Follower of Christ, you have no idea how amazing it is to see a character with my beliefs actually be a good person, instead of a horrible Bible-Thumper. You, sir, just got yourself a standing ovation. Thank you.
Gee, Willis, I didn’t know you were so well versed in verses. Kudos.
When Christians act Christlike.
“And God has given me the strength to make the right decisions, even when they’re difficult.” <– And Dotty's gonna remind you that you said this, Joyce, when it's time for you to stop gay-conversion-dating Ethan. (Which is, like, any second now . . . or even yesterday.)
Dorothy may not have to, at the rate things are going. (Although Ethan might.)
I think Dorothy will wait until all this is at least somewhat over – she’s a kind and empathic person and I believe she would want to give Joyce some time to recover after her rebelling against her parents (aka. doing the right thing).
You’re right that Dorothy will be compassionate. But is it past time for Joyce t quit with this thing? It is.
OOOOHHHH, you dun jes got TOLD by da mutha-fuggin ALMIGHTY!! That’s some verbal smackdown from tha LAWD JESUS!! Can I get a “Heaven YEAH!!”
HEAVEN YEAH! AMEN! GLORY BE!
THAT….Is exactly how christians should act, I’m a christian(my father is a baptist preacher actually).
THIS is how i was raised, to be accepting of others, even though they may have differing views, Many of my friends are atheists, Many are Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic, I dated a shinto shrine maiden once(still talk to her, epically amazing lady, top notch dancer).
Go Joyce….
I await parental butthurt.
PREACH IT SISTER
Oooo the Brown’s stumble a little. Now they’re really gonna have to pull something awful. Blaine’s lead is just too great.
Hold on, I may need to revise my “Best Character” opinion.
Finally decided it’s Sierra? I don’t blame you. She’s a fire cracker.
Is there even? I thought it was a NO CONTEST. (Super Smash Bros. Brawl reference btw)
I thought Becky was her Best Friend. A few weeks at college and she throws it away? I’ll allow it though, since she’s in the moment. 😉
Becky hasn’t answered her phone in more than a year. If she wants to keep best friend status, she’s gotta do better than that.
This is so beautiful. And so real. Joyce is growing up and emancipating herself. It’s gonna be so hard, this kind of thing is always hard. When you’ve heard one thing from your parents all your life and suddenly that thing gets challenged. But she’s taken a really big step now and I’m, like, really proud of her? Is that weird, to be proud of a fictional character? I am though. She reminds me of very real people that I’m proud of in a very real way. So I’m projecting like whoa, but it’s also a testament to how real this story is. Occasionally someone comments here with ‘this is so unrealistic etc etc’ and it’s just… not. This sort of thing happens. And I’m so happy it’s happening to Joyce right now :3
Nah, it’s fine. Most of us are proud of her as well. Besides, if somebody makes fun of you for it, then clearly they just don’t understand.
I have FEELINGS about fictional characters: an autobiography.
Dumbing of age just got better, much better. Joyce is having a breakthrough in her life.
GO, JOYCE, GO!
Joyce has now realized that gay people, atheists, and questioning your parents are all okay. I’m pretty sure her parents fears of college are well confirmed, society has a way of fucking up lifelong brainwashing.
I like the Samaritan reference, so many people do not understand why the parable of the Good Samaritan is so powerful. It is because the Samaritans were hated by the Jews yet Jesus said that they are to be considered your neighbor and treated like yourself. All this while the wealthy and pious religious men walked on and by inference were not your neighbors, point being that what makes one your neighbor is who they are as a person.
Reality check: it was the Samaritan who treated the Jew like himself, not the other way round.
For a more sobering perspective, Matthew 15:21-28, the Canaanite woman. Excerpt:
“24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.”
But the point was that the Samaritan behaved like a good human being and was therefore to be admired. It has still the same meaning, regardless of who did the healing. The Good Samaritan was the neighbour, the religious guys were not. The Good Samaritan was the good example.
And after your excerpt, by the way, the Canaanite woman challenges Jesus, who then changes his mind and heals her daughter anyway.
Uh, she does not “challenge” Jesus. She grovels in a disarming manner with wit and chuzpah, stating “and yet the dogs get to eat the morsels falling off their masters’ table”. And apparently Jesus can accept Jewish wit as a substitute for Jewish faith.
There’s a great Mitchell and Webb sketch where all the disciples call Jesus racist for acting like it’s a big deal that a Samaritan was nice.
I was expecting you to cut away, thus being able to laugh at our shared frustration and you go getting right to it. Damn you Willis!
Daaaaaaaaaaannnng, girl. As proud as I am of Joyce here, I just can’t shake the feeling that this all going to come back to bite her somehow. It just is.
Well, yeah. This is Willis, and things don’t just work out because you do the right thing. Usually, the right thing hurts.
Who’s paying for her to go to college?
Why is everyone so worried about her parents pulling funds? They can’t take back the money for this semester. She’s got months to find a way to take care of next semester, and hard working Joice trying to adapt to work and even more people with different world views would make good story. I and many people I know paid their own way. It is hard, but it is done.
It aint martian tech jetpack and blaster. It’s BETTER.
Here’s looking at you, kid. *Salutes*
I don’t know how, but for some reason your image feels appropriate for that comment.
Is it the pipe? Or maybe the cap?
SLOW CLAP.
THEN THE CROWD GOES WIIIIIIILD!
JOYCEAMANIA IS RUNNING WILD, BROTHER!!!!
Joyce gets It. She really really gets It.
Also: Willis? I’ve been reading your shit since Roomies!, and I spent a good amount of time feeling like your attempts at characters and stories and drama were hamfisted and awkward.
Those days are officially long long long past. Your comics are some of the finest character work out there.
You fucking GO, Joyce!
Wow. Joyce just leveled up!
“What’s happening?”
“Congratulation. Your JOYCE just evolved into a new, better person.”
Would you like to give JOYCE a nickname?
Nickname for JOYCE: Saint
…Any others?
Dirk Lonestyle
Saint Joshua
Uh… ok now my avatar is Sarah
Give it back.
The backgrounds are getting ominously redder.
Take care, Joyce.
That would be because of the sunset.
Well done, well said. This is how the game is SUPPOSED to be played. I want to say more, but my eloquence is shot for the day.
Well done, sweetheart.
I love how Joyce is evolving in a way that lets her keep the religious belief that she so strongly holds while still learning to think for herself and apply the scripture to support what she’s learned so far.
Placing bets on whether her parents start threatening to yank her out of her present college for her new-found rebellious streak, without bothering to pay attention to the fact she just used their own supposed system of morality in her rebellion. They don’t seem to be the type to take such defiance lightly, nor to engage in much self-reflection before resorting to threats.
Isn’t Joyce over 18 by now? They can yank her out if they want but they can’t force her to go to another school.
Oh, I’m sure she is. They can’t force her to go anywhere she doesn’t want to go.
The real question is whether her new-found defiance, gained after about three weeks of college compared to a lifetime of parental brainwashing, is strong enough to endure her parents putting her in such a situation.
They can decide that they’re only going to pay for her to go to a different school, though. I doubt Joyce has the means to pay her own tuition.
I don’t want to be the guy egging on the whole “coming out of her shell and smashing the fundies” thing, because this is (probably, correct me if I’m wrong) very very hard on Joyce for a while.
As a Roman Catholic i firmly approve 🙂 Good work Willis 😉
Ditto
Yay! My new avatar is a Joyce ^___^
Reload in the Joyce.
Word of God…Literally! 😀
yesssssss joyce is now much more human in my eyes
Well, this drew a slow-but-sharp inhale from me. ALL the bits of interplay here – Joyce’s sticking her courage to the wall, even as she’s scared; Carol and Hank’s surprise and not-quite-anger about being defied; and (the one that hit me hardest, in some ways) DOROTHY being willing to back down for the sake of some semblance of harmony – all of these come together to keep this comic the one that is the high point of my daily webcomics trawl.
I mean, DAMN.
Joyce’s next stop: the financial aid office.
Oh WTF…I just now noticed my avatar is now Danny.
NNNNNNOOOOOOOooooooooooo,
I have become that which I hate! 🙁
Ha, as I was uploading new avatars, your avatar went from Danny to Sarah and back to (new) Danny.
Poor guy.
Yay! I am now Walky!
Stop complaining. I went from Dina to Mary. =P
I’m far more creeped out by the realization that Mary looks like a paler Robin in some aspects.
Also just posting to see who I am now. Not Mary?
YES
What are you talking abouAWDAMNIT I CAN’T UNSEE!
Is there a way to turn off my gravatar so that I see what random one I get?
Maybe this will work (adding +doa to my email address)
The random gravatar is determined by a hash of the email address, so anything that changes your email address changes which one you get.
I turned into Joyce… I have to wonder if Willis did this on purpose.
That’s a joke. I’m sure he doesn’t know I exist…
Except now I’m Mary… I think… That’s Mary, right…?
… This is an odd coincidence…
I’ve gone from Dina to Amber.
Someday I will be my own gender!
(But I’m totally okay with this.)
I went from Danny to Joyce a definite step up.
d’oh
Damm you Willis
I’m not Marcie anymore, am I?
I’m Dina! Even better!!
Might want to recheck
goddamnit, I lost the joyce. I’m not man enough to live up to Joe.
Last Time I Checked I Was Mike
Yep Still Got It
I’m also having an identity crisis! I miss being Sarah… But Amber is not a bad trade. : )
I went from disapproving Aslan to disapproving Aslan.
Not sure what happened, but thanks, Willis! I feel like my old self again! : )
I’m waiting for her parents to walk away, a panel of silence, then hiccups.
JOYCE BBY AWWW
Holy shi-! God da-! Wow!
Go Joyce go!
She’d better be careful, she’s starting to sound like the Pope.
Which one?
The new guy that washes peoples feet.
excuse me while i http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2JSUXaY-tw
This is my new favorite strip of all time. It sometimes feels like these strips get a little bit preachy about how all religions are too, well preachy, ignoring the fact that there are in fact many people of all different religions and denominations that are moderate, tolerant, and accepting of others. The fact that Joyce is using the bible to point out how her parents were using the bible to justify their own ignorance and personal life view was just brilliant, bravo Willis Bravo.
You don’t notice all of the religious people in this comic who are not preachy because they are just that: not preachy.
Joyce is a fundie. Fundies are generally pretty preachy. Her character is reflecting reality (notably, Willis’ reality).
Go Joyce. You got it, girl!
>Is actually in tears.
yay c’:
Joyce is worthy of great respect. She has immense moral courage. I wonder if her parents can step back and see it for what it is. She has understood the message that they taught, but they themselves are too hypocritical to practice themselves.
Man, Joyce is taking no prisoners here. She’s kind of badass for sanding up to her parents too. A round of applause.
I know it’s been said, but that was beautiful. Now all she needs to do is go help a hobo because Jesus told her to and she can stop searching for a man, because I will climb through the screen and sweep her off her feet if it kills me.
… apparently while wearing her face as my new, serial-killery countenance, because that’s just how my new gravatar rolls.
Well played, Monsieur Willis.
My birthday’s on Wednesday. Please don’t ruin this.
Good job, Joyce. Perhaps there is hope for you after all.
I was wondering when she’d do this. Always nice to see a reminder that devout Christian =/= bigoted asshole
FAITHTALITY
+1
YES! That’s the Joyce I know.
Omg I’m tearing up here. So, wow, fricking, well put Joyce. Tear. Ing. Up.
YEEEEEE
BIBLICAL WIN
Well now, that’s almost enough to make me cry (cried last in 2001). Gotta say I’m proud of her. She has ‘grown’ more than just about any character in the strip.
So, now they pick the parents up off he pavement and put them in their car?
And Joyce gets a group hug?
She stands up to them and they all but disown her. And that starts her on her path to secularism. But she’ll have her friends. AND Dexter and Monkey Master!
Oh, oh my. Oh my oh my oh my.
Such a good combination of comment & avatar. I’m hearing it a bit like George Takei with a British accent now. Which is most excellent.
As avatars go, I suppose Jason’s good enough. I kind of miss Marcie, though.
Pfft, Amber now. Quite pleased with that, though!
Okay, longer comment time.
This is great. A lot of the discussions of Joyce’s characterization in these comments has been about her upbringing, from better or for worse, ranging from “it’s not her fault, it’s how she was raised” to “she’s too sheltered, she’ll retreat from the world and go back”. This is Joyce breaking with the people who facilitated her upbringing, who probably were faith as she knew it, and she’s telling them they were wrong. This is her making a choice–the choice to stand by her religion and stand by the people she thinks are good people, a choice which has been understated ever since she didn’t immediately split off with Dorothy after learning she was an atheist.
There are still obvious flaws with this. She thinks a lot of her friends are good people but manifests this in trying to help them rid themselves of their supposed sins, like Ethan’s homosexuality or Dorothy’s atheism. She still has a lot of problems with her own sexuality, too. But moving away from what her parents taught her gives Joyce her own meaning for her beliefs, and it’s clear Dorothy is surprised by it. It’s a pretty damn big step into independence. (From her parents, anyway.)
Maybe she won’t have to protect her as much as she seems to think.
Student becomes the master. Beautiful.
JOOOOOOOOOOOYCE!
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
But seriously, girl, batten down the hatches, because your trials have only just begun.
(Don’t worry, you’re strong and we believe in you!)
I vote we elect Joyce the new Jesus. All in favor?
Yaaaay, most excellent. ^^ Now to see if any of that sank in, or whether it just flew over their heads like their understanding of WW2.
And then Joyce received a package marked “respect”. And it was overflowing with it.
JOYCE!!! Way to actually stand up for your opinions. feel proud. 😀
Oh, I’m Mary now. Not sure if want.
Now her parents need to fire back with some Old Testament goodness ^_^
Oh look. It’s still my childhood– I mean GO JOYCE!
And it’s starts…
Man, Joyce actually did something to earn some respect from me. Not bad, I say, not bad.
From Mike to Ruth. Great.
Next Time it’s Danny and we have all the characters I associate myself with.
Am i the only one who cracked a tear?
Yes, you are. }:->
No. Joyce’s face in the last panel kinda breaks my heart because she looks like she’s about to cry.
So, as everything else seems to be said, only one question remains:
David, did you have a hard time to look up these bible passages? 😉
Probably not. If you read the About page, Joyce is actually autobiographical, meaning this probably happened with him, too.
Feels for everyone.
I remember them in my brain. I just had to confirm the verse and chapter numbers.
So what other body parts do you remember things in? On second thought, I retract this question. As far as it will go.
My back, for instance, remembers a lot of things for me. Sitting in an awkward position on an awkward chair doing an awkward job all day for example. I’d like to forget that – my back remebers it too well. 😉
I wonder how Joyce would feel about The Brick Testament.
That’s it. Joyce is my favorite character now.
She hasn’t bound and gagged Faz yet, sooo….yeah, Dina’s still the best one so far.
Holy crap Joyce grew a spine!
Never thought I’d say this…
FUCK YEAH JOYCE!
Joyce 😀
And the crowd went absolutely bananas.
*slow applause, building to a room-wide crescendo*
*joins in, with a glorious joy in her heart*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whytAReStUQ
Well, I suppose a good decision for bad reasons is still a good decision.
I don’t see any bad reasons. If she found good morals in a book of morals, then that’d make them good reasons, yes?
Sure, but if you make your moral foundation a book that has both good and very bad things in it then you are setting yourself up to make some very bad decisions for the same bad reasons.
Joyce should stand up for Dorothy, but because she knows that it’s the right thing to do, which she does. The bible is a post-hoc justification.
One arbitrary repressive boundary at a time.
I see the Bible as more a reflection of real life when put into terms of the amount of good and bad it contains; there are both good and very bad things in the bible, like you said, but it really is up to you to decide where your morals are aligned. And instead of following what her parents had raised her to think, she made the decision on her own. Thankfully, it was the best decision, which allows her to both keep her religious beliefs AND defend her best friend.
I agree! However, if we’re all thinking for ourselves, there’s no reason not to cut out the middle man.
If she is really thinking for herself, her claim that Jesus quotes from the bible are her moral foundation are false, or at best superfluous.
I was raised areligiously. My mom is a christian and my dad is an atheist. They both agreed that the Bible contains many important guidelines and moral ethics to becoming a good person and so they raised me on christian morals without including God in the picture.
Don’t lie because then nobody will trust me instead of don’t lie because God says it’s wrong. Stealing hurts others, how would you feel if we took away all your toys? Swearing makes grandma cry etc.
Just because a lot of messed up things has been committed by people through the centuries who believed in the Bible and believed themselves to be spreading a message of love, even when hacking civilians asunder with their swords, doesn’t mean that the Bible itself can’t be a good moral foundation.
I apologize for that last bit. Upon closer reading I see you didn’t mention anything of the atrocities committed. I’ve just grown so used to people criticizing the Bible as a moral foundation to bring that up as an example.
I still stand by the point that the Bible can be an excellent moral foundation however. Even in our own secular society, a great many of our laws and moral ethics that keep society together come from the Bible. All that’s changed is not using “God said so” as a reason to why they should be followed.
Well, let me rephrase what I said before. If you are cherry-picking the morally acceptable parts of the bible and applying them for secular, rational reasons, why do you need the bible at all? You know stealing is wrong because it hurts others. You didn’t learn that from the bible.
I wouldn’t point to the atrocities people have done in the name of Christianity as evidence that it is not a morally upright set of teachings. I would point to the morally reprehensible things that it explicitly commands.
Even leaving aside the Old Testament and its advocacy of slavery and genocide, there is much to be criticized. The central doctrine of vicarious redemption (by human sacrifice!) is immoral on its face. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus claims that the thought-crimes of anger and lust are equivalent crimes to murder and adultery. I could go on.
My point is not that all Christians are immoral (they are not), but that their morality does not come from the bible. Their morals, like yours, are not founded in ancient texts, but in solidarity and fellowship with other people and a rational consideration of the consequences of actions.
This comment is missing a “Thumbs Up” button I could click a dozen times or so.
But how do you get that moral foundation? Just like a building foundation of cinder blocks, it has to come from somewhere. And so long as the foundation is strong, it shouldn’t matter if it is based on the words of some 2000-year old book, “Harry Potter”, The Way of the Jedi, or The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Because the bible’s foundation is /better/ than that provided by Harry Potter. I’m and atheist, and neither my upbringing nor my environment are or were christian. However, the bible has its merits as a code of acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Very nearly everything in the bible could be used to make a point about how some behavior or other is either appropriate or innappropriate. A code of morals is really all it is.
And yes, some of the bible’s teachings are archaic and no longer accepted. This is because the book is hundred upon hundreds of years old. If the united states constitution needs to be updated countless times in just the four hundred years we’ve had it, think how many revisions the bible is due for that it will never get, because the clergy is too intent on keeping the good word.
What I’m saying is, yes, there are flaws, but behind them is a good structure of right and wrong. If only people could stick to those rules without the threat of eternal damnation, then we’d be getting somewhere…
You must come from some weird parallel dimension where the Bible isn’t a mess of contradictory morals and the US Constitution is 400 years old.
“Christianity might be a pretty good thing, if anyone would ever put it into practice.” – Mark Twain
Joyce is trying to put it into practice.
You go girl!!
Owned!
FOUR for you, Joyce!! You go, Joyce.
…And none for Joyce’s mom bye.
Don’t you love it when people get their own ideologies thrown back at them whenever they start to act out like assholes?
Yes! Very Yes!
ownage by bible verse to the FAAAAAAAAACCCEEE!!
Well this is encouraging and all but considering the parents previous actions I doubt it will have much of an effect, beyond them shrugging and quoting a counter argument supporting passage.
*applause*
I like it, but judging by the color of the background I have a feeling this is a dream. I hope not, but that’s the vibe I’m getting.
Relax, it’s just the color of the sunset.
Three things i like about this strip in the first panel here it looks like Joyce is elbowing here mom in the chest hard is one. in the second panel where Joyce’s dad is like “i feel i should be angry but her bible verses make it hard for me to disapprove of” is second. then in the third panel is the almighty justice finger Joyce is using to point at her parents which i bet she learned from them is third.
I don’t think Joyce is elbowing her mom in the first panel. If you go back to yesterday her mother has her hands on Joyce’s shoulders; a sort of possessive posture. I think Joyce has just rolled her shoulders forward (and possibly taken a step away?) to get her mother’s hands off of her in order to turn around and deliver her speech. In my opinion, any elbow to Carol’s chest is purely unintentional.
The look on her father’s face in panel two is the first realization that his little girl is never going to be just his little girl again.
I like how, despite everyone’s assumption joyce will choose her freinds over religeon to go against her parent’s forced control of her life, her reasons are religeous as well as freindship.
so her mother really has no grounds to complain/ I have no doubt she will, but yeah…
Oh, Joyce. I wish I had been half as brave as you in college.
I just wanted to say, publicly, that this comic is absolutely amazing. It’s been some time since I have actually laughed aloud while reading something. Not only that but, as a college student, so many of these characters can be related to in so many ways.
I just recently discovered this comic and told myself I was just going to read a few panels or so before going to bed. However, without even realizing it, I stayed up all night just to catch up. I love the story. I love the characters. And I can’t wait to see where the story goes.
I love you Joyce
Wonder if her parents will throw a bible at her?
Based on her performance so far giving her the source material would be a hindrance to them rather than the help.
Now that my avatar is Amber, I feel the need to say something amazing, but Joyce beat me to it.
I’m sure her parents may turn around and quote something from the Old Testament, but there’s something in one of the Gospels where Jesus essentially says “Follow me, for I trump the Old Testament in authority” which Joyce can use as retaliation. (It’s been a while so I can’t recall the exact passage.) And don’t forget the “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” passage, too.
(And I say this as an openly bisexual born-again pagan, too. Some Christians hate it when a pagan can argue with Bible quotes.)
I’m sure Mr. Brown will say something along the lines of, “Even the Devil quotes scripture when it serves his own interests,” further cementing his place as the second worst father in the strip. It’s a line I’ve heard many times.
I remember that bit every time I see a religion based pundit/politician quote OT as why they should have bigoted laws. They think they are Good Christians when if they were they would be basing their beliefs off of the the NT. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and it existed just to prove man could not be holy without Him is what I was raised on.
Yeah, I was raised in a family that had Harvest Parties instead of Halloween, etc…
Remember, if a pundit quotes the jewish bible for evidence but eats shellfish, pig, or cheeseburger, you can safely ignore them as a hypocrite!
Hoist with their own petard!
Yeah but dat chin, though…
The hammer is her chin.
Shit is deep!
I really like how Joyce is rebelling against her parents without directly rebelling against the moral beliefs they taught her. It shows that she probably picked up on details during their homeschooling that they either weren’t trying to teach her or didn’t believe she’d take notice of.
In addition to getting a broader perspective from spending real time with real people in the real world of course.
Joyce’s religion is a big part of her character, and I think this might be one of the first pages where her religion isn’t used to show how naïve or crazy it can make people or how dangerous it can make people who are already crazy.
Joyce’s moral and religious upbringing is a *MASSIVE* part of her character. And there is not one damned thing wrong with that (see Proverbs 31:10-12). If I could have found a girlfriend like Joyce I would have married her in a heartbeat.
Jesus H. Costanza, the balls on that girl. Good for you, imaginary girl that doesn’t exist yet inspires hope in me that this occasionally happens in real life!
Oh man, Joyce – I am so proud of you. *hug*
Well whaddya know? Joyce grew some balls. I especially like how she turns her parents’ own literature against them. I still don’t like her, but I respect her a little more now.
this needs a tag for the mic she just dropped.
*clap clap clap clap clap clap clap*
Have to see if my grav has shifted, but this is not done. The parents will retaliate.
Hard to ‘win’ against someone proof texting. There is no end to reductionist quotes. Her parents have spent decades building a separatist sect where the two of them are the only certain Christians. That won’t change in 30 seconds. Plus their pastor would probably back them up. I know Benny 16th would have.
Being a prophet in you family is lonely work.
Benny 16 probably wouldn’t even talk to/about them. Remember, they are christians, not catholics. It’s not the same.
Because it kinda irks me when I see people abuse or be ignorant about this relation whether intentionally or no, all Catholics are Christians, just as all Baptists and all Methodists are Christians, not all Christians fit into those given subsets… well unless you’re high in the orders of the Catholic church where the idea has traditionally been that all Christianity, even those who have strayed from the Roman Church’s views, are still part of their flock.
Catholics are Christians.
That doesn’t automatically make any christians into catholics.
Well no, of course not. It’s like how all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. The issue they’re talking about is that some of the rectangles have decided that the squares don’t count as rectangles.
That still doesn’t explain why B16 should talk to non-catholic christians …
Such a great Joyce moment.
“And the parents did fall on their knees and weep, for through their daughter they had been owned right proper by the LORD.”
-Joyce 10:8
I’ve never wanted to hug a comic character so much before. Go Joyce!
Joyce is the Christian I wish I would have been, the Christian I should have been.
Dorothy is the atheist I want to be.
You are awfully good at writing heroes. And to think, there aren’t even any alien menaces this time!
Keep in mind that Walky is still right next to them and is probably shouting things like “Aw, Snap! It is goin down! You gonna take that Joyces Mom?!”
win
I think EVEN WALKY knows to shut up right now.
There were twelve people standing around when all this went down. There are at least eight of them who are probably wishing that they were anywhere other than there right this very minute.
I’m so scared for and proud of Joyce.
And so the church mouse finally roars. I’M SO PROUD OF YOU JOYCE! You stood your grounding and rebelled against your parents using the same logic and teachings that they brought you up on. Even though you were scared, you did what you thought was right based on YOUR belief, not just because “Mommy & daddy said so”. *sniffles* I’m so happy….& knowing Walky he’ll probably step in and make things unnecessarily awkward…that or her big brother shows up. Hoping for the latter on this one cause this is a HUGE turning point for Joyce!
Standing by your morals WIN.
Being the best model of Christianity in the fact of twisted versions even if it makes people initially think you’re a bit simple WIN.
Also, she might actually be Captain America in disguise.
Tomorrow’s strip:
Joyce’s dad: “Joyce, stop! You’re twisting Jesus’ words to selfishly suit you own purpose!”
(Walky’s head explodes because he has a low irony threshhold)
Ethan: “Nooo, the cute caramel boy died!”
Everyone else (in unison): “Oh shit, now I get it. Are you gay?”
Thursday’s strip:
(cut to a 20-strip story about Joe and his dad picking up chicks since we don’t have enough storylines hanging on cliffs)
Go Joyce! Way to stand up for your friend and your beliefs!
*Breaks out into wild, thunderous applause!
*GAAASP*
I applaud Joyce, and I applaud David Willis as well.
Joyce: “And mom, while I’ve got the floor, please go to the plastic surgeon and get your blocky chin fixed! It’s always bugged me!”
I went to vote “My favoritest webcomic” on the poll just now, only to be told I had already done that. Well, I think after reading a strip like this I should be allowed to vote it as many times as I darned well please.
Seriously though, It’s stuff like this that keeps me coming back here without fail every morning. I love these characters!
…yes, Mary. Even you.
Ruth’s eyeroll completes this comment.
Woo! Go joyce!
Go Joyce!!!
Man… I like this comic.
This was so epic. Joyce is growing up. *tears up* I have something in my eyes. Excuse me.
GO JOYCE!!! Well said. I think I speak for everyone one ins saying the readers are proud of you.
I think I learned something today.
Joyce! Your backbone has leveled up!!
Joyce Backbone leveled up! Vertebrae Level now 5!
Joyce has learned “Independent Thought”
Luck be a lady toooonight. Luck be a lady for the gravatarrrr
YES ALL IS WELL IN THE UNIVERSE
I am now a stuffy British man with a bow tie. I cannot begin to tell you how happy this makes me.
As you should!
I am so happy for you!!!!!
WOW. Joyce is really coming into her own here: standing up to her parents and being true to herself and her friends. Amazing scene!
Oh and Joyce gets bonus points for knowing what a Samaritan is.
She can quote random bible verses off the top of her head, so I’d be surprised if she didn’t.
(hugs Joyce) I’m so happy for this.
‘…my best friend…’ Poor Becky!
Cholma beat me to it (by twelve hours). Where’s the delete button?
Joyce’s religious belief is still cherry-picking, but to be honest, there’s no version of Christianity that doesn’t engage in cherry-picking. And I’m reminded of something I read in a book, once. What is good and just does not happen so often that we should quibble especially much over the details when it does happen.
D:
That appears to be the most appropriate reaction. I love this character 😀
Joyce is my hero.
YOU GO JOYCE!
This storyline is epic. It just is.
Dude, that is just beautiful!
FUCK YEAH. That was AWESOME.
PREACH IT
I’m not religious but I got a healthy appreciation for people who know where their values are. Stick to them principles, girl.
This is the good kind of religion – use it to expand your understanding of life, not to limit it. Go Joyce!
I sense this to be laying the groundwork for a future strip, which will justify itself with the old “judge not, lest ye be judged”.
Which is one of, if not the most abused passage by liberals today.
It’s a bad translation for today’s english usage. It would be better translated as, “condemn not, lest ye also be condemned”.
The bible calls us to “judge” between what is right and what is wrong all the time.
Nor does lack of condemning something, mean that it is now okay to condone the biblically wrong behaviour.
Yay, Joyce!
Hell yeah, you go Joyce!
Go Joyce! Personal maturation for the win!
I read that as “personal masturbation.” That’s probably bad.
This is a very important moment for Joyce. LOVE this one.
not the way i thought it would go but till cudos to joyce got some spine now your caching up to the walkyverse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyFQVZ2h0V8
Crap, why isn’t my super cool gravitar showing up?
Ahhh, better.
From the beginning of this comic, I’ve had an extreme dislike for Joyce. I knew her character arc was about realizing how narrow her views were, but it didn’t stop me from despising her. As horrible as it sounds (and no, I would never react like this in real life) even the attempted rape only made her a bit more sympathetic. The dislike was that strong. This, though? This I can appreciate. Some of her actions still annoy the hell out of me, but I can’t claim to hate her anymore. Kudos, Willis.
Love the perspective in the first panel on this page.
Also cheered aloud when Joyce dropped her bible bomb today.
Fundie-fight! Woo!
Aww crap, my gravatar is Billie now? 🙁
Give it ba- wait.
Mines was a different Billie.
Be glad, At least “Your” gravatar isn’t Danny.
…I kinda shot myself in the foot there, didn’t I :p.
Actually, I don’t mind this one.
I feel like I should say something incisive and hurtful, given what mine turned out to be. Eh, I’ll just take the nickel and run.
JUST LIKE YO MOMMA DID.
*sickburns*
Lol, gave you my Danny gravatar…and gained Walky.
Upgrade!
Why are your gravatars changing? Mine stays the same.
Wait a minute….what happened to my Gravatar?
(Forget what I said)
Or you could just choose to be a good person based on yourself and not religious doctrine.
If you look up the definition of moral, it says nothing about religion. Just knowing the difference between right and wrong.
Somehow Dorothy had a stronger moral foundation than the elder Browns.
Go Joyce!
And we wait for DoA to update, to see what they will rebut with. Goddessamit, the anticipation is gonna kill me.
…You people stay away from my funeral.
Oh shiiiiiiiiit
I’ve always been a sarcastic looking ruth, wonder what my gravitar will be now…
Also go Joyce.
Go, Joyce! =)
Then again…this speech of hers had got to come off as condescending to Dorothy. “I love Dorothy despite the fact that she’s a godless heathen!”
But then again…she’s doing this in front of her to both her mother AND father. In front of everyone. That takes some guts.
I dunno. I dated a guy for a couple years who was fairly religious while I was and am atheistic. It worked for us because we respected each other’s beliefs…although he was always a bit nervous for me. He actually called me “godless heathen” as a form of endearment. ^_^
We stopped ages ago but remain very good friends.
I had a similar friendship with a buddy from highschool…
What gives?! I was Ruth this morning and now I’m amber?!?!
*cheering!*
Now then… does this give her parents pause for thought, or is there doom? The second would perhaps be more convenient if one wants to break her completely out of her familiar place in life, but the first would be more emotionally satisfying. Either way, there should be various interestingness.
Go Joyce! Be a proper human! 😀
Willis, you magnificent bastard… Had us all thinking that it was time for the Thrilla in – er, Bloomington, and Joyce/you went and took a stand for maturity and “do the right thing, even if it hurts”. Well played, sir, well played.
I wonder how I would be if I was in this universe. I would personally try my best to be a funny, random, mediating background character who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Aaaaand now I have Sarah as a Gravatar. :/
Their are only two things I can’t Stand in this world:
People that are intolerant of other people’s culture and the Dutch.
You’re my kind of guy! Sign up now! Join AUTBD (Americans United To Beat the Dutch)!!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XMJmostLnbA/TolcSYT2-WI/AAAAAAAAAwM/e3oQaAuoEIQ/s1600/the+dutch+threat+or+menace+01.jpg
I just want to give her a hug and tell her it’ll be alright.
We all do. *random commenter’s name here* especially.
Best Alt Text Ever.
JESUS!
Now that’s *christianity*!
Back to Walky, weegee!
I know Joyce is a fictional character…but I’m still impressed by the strength of her devotion to her friend that flies so much in the face of her familial upbringing.
must see gravatar
Really impressed by Joyce!
Hopefully this is Joyce’s most character-defining moment so far. I desperately don’t want it to have been the party incident.
Mike Gravatar. Yesssss. This is perfect, now all of my comments will sound either sarcastic or aggressive.
This has been a confusing read. Everyone is referring to gravatars they no longer have.
And they’ve changed again. Now I’m Billie, and my last post was when I was Amber. I miss my original Dina gravatar.
And after a day of Danny…I am now Walky! 🙂
I really love this. Joyce’s faith has been at her character’s core for the whole series, but it has mostly been the source of her fear and frustration. Here we see her using her faith in (what I feel is) the best way; as a source of personal power and guidance. A weaker story would have had Joyce abandon her faith altogether, but this isn’t a narrative about the evil of religion. It’s a story about personal growth and maturation, where growth never has to mean destruction of who you truly are.
In retrospect there are some hurt feelings both directions in regard to that. Both of Joyce’s parents got upset the first time with Dorothy’s folks all proud about how their daughter had carefully researched and came to the logical conclusion that atheism was best for her. Which to me came out sounding “we’re so proud of our daughter, she didn’t buy into your whole invisible man in the sky myth.” They didn’t mean it like that, but you have to be careful how you treat other people’s faith. Now Joyce is using her faith in a higher power as a confirmation on why she and Dorothy are friends. And it comes off a lot better than “I’ll hang out with who I want, you’re not the boss of me.” I’m just surprised that people keep thinking that Joyce’s parents are going to cut her off for standing her ground. If they wanted to control her forever, they would have either not sent her to a public college, or contrived some way to keep her close to home. Of course, Joyce disowned by her parents equates to more satisfying drama, so anything is possible.
Man, you paint a really unflattering image of religious people if what the Keeners said to them could understandably set them off.
Hey its your story man. I’m just reading it. 🙂
also, the lighting in this strip is beautiful.
Joyce has gained the power of defending her belifs!!
Guts +3
independence+2
maturity+4
I absolutely love this strip, I just hope that this doesn’t lead to Bad Things later on…
Also, new gravatar time?! Please not Mary again, please not Mary again,, please not Mary again…
YES, RUTH! I win 😀
Good on ya, Joyce.
Awwww, Joyce is blossoming into a light world Martin Luther! When he was less of a shitty person! And actually this analogy is falling apart help me out here guys!
This is amazing. My draw dropped when I read this.
Whoa. Damn, Joyce. Go, Joyce.
Man, it feels like Willis is strumming his fingers to this song, reading my whole life in this song :'(
I don’t know how many of us were a Joyce once, but i applaud anyone who stood up regardless of the horrifying consequences
Yay Joyce. Also Gravatar test.
Hurray for common sense, and dropping the mic.
This is one of the most awesome things I have ever seen, anywhere. Go Joyce! Way to show people what Christians are SUPPOSED to be like!
Now this is some wonderful character development for Joyce. Good job, Willis.
I read too much of another comic. That fourth panel, the first thing I thought of was: “pointing power!”.
This is an intense amount of comments.
I can’t believe I got so far behind on DoA, but man am I sad I missed this when it first launched a few days ago. I am SO SO SO proud of Joyce! *happy dance*
Rereading through this, this is still the BEST STRIP EVER.
THERE’s the Christian values the rest of us actually want to see more of 😛
“For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.”