Kids from homogeneous neighborhoods learn the stereotypes without seeing what the people they are applied to are really like, while kids from diverse neighborhoods see the behaviors that caused the stereotypes as “normal” and don’t realize it’s inappropriate to generalize them to other people.
Five minutes Joyce! That’s all we’re asking of you! Just five minutes where you don’t stick your foot in your mouth! Metaphorically. If you did it literally that’d be kind’f hot.
I had the same problem, except my first thought was:
“Billie? Well, she’s looking out for a friend at least! Wait. She’s not rooming with Billie… Who’s she rooming with agai- Oh. Oh… *facepalm* Really, Joyce? Just because Jacob and Sarah are both black? Really?!”
I could have also chosen the term “of African decent” but I used black cos for most part, almost everyone knows what someone means when you use the word black in a racial sense, the same way when you hear the word white you think “of Europeon decent” or possibly “of NW Europeon decent”.
Yeah, “black people” is more accepted than “blacks” because referring to people with a summarizing identifying descriptor is kind of dehumanizing, since people are all multifaceted and more than any one descriptor can capture. The race breakdown of IU according to “college prowler”:
African American 4%
Asian 4%
Hispanic 3%
International 9%
Native American 0%
White 77%
Unknown 1%
Historically Black College/University? No
Tribal College? No
Out-of-State Students 38%
I also heard somewhere that in America if you, your parents or grandparents came from Africa, you are clearly African-American, if your family has lived in the US since at least the 18th century, you’re Black.
I’m not sure if there is any point in a distiction like this unless “African-Americans” see themselves as different from “Blacks”.
‘white people’ sounds terrible, I’d rather be called ‘white’. In the interest of equality, I’m using ‘black’. If subject of sed descriptor has a problem with it, he’s welcome to forward another term he personally agrees with more.
(At least not in the vast majority of cases. Unwise to speak in absolutes, particularly when you’re dealing with c. 40 million people)
But seriously, why do you think African Americans don’t think they should be fully American? Also, if (while in the USA) you see a “kiss me, I’m Irish” t-shirt do you assume the person wearing it is saying s/he isn’t American at all?
… seriously? I’ve driven through Gary at 1 am and later lots of times, and I’m so white I glow in the dark. I have yet to be shot. Or maimed. Or murdered, etc.
Also, it’s not “a few hours” from Bloomington to Gary. Closer to 5 or 6.
Down where I live the term African-American will get you dirty stares from a lot of black people. I was partly raised by a black family and the father once told me that the term African-American sounded too much like something said by someone scared to call him what he is. Black.
But that doesn’t seem to be the case in other parts of the country. So it really depends.
What parts? It certainly doesn’t apply in the UK, where you’d want to use the term “black people” rather than “blacks”, and (just FYI) “gay people” rather than “gays”.
(Obviously, calling a black British guy “African-American” would just be weird.)
So, ‘white/black people’ would be the plural for ‘black/white’ as well as for ‘black/white person’? I -sort- of get it, but this is pretty inane PC-ism. There’s a reason why it’s ‘Brits’, not ‘British people’ in common parlance.
Oddly enough, it gets a little more subtle (at least judging from an average of mainstream media articles I read).
“Blacks” is used as a subject frequently, and I rarely see people offended.
For instance, “Blacks/hispanics voted predominantly for…. in that election”
When preceded by an article, it sounds loads worse to the ear, and people react. e.g. “…for the blacks…”. Even “…for blacks…” sounds almost as bad.
I know to my ear the latter two sound worse; I’m going to guess it’s a matter of agency within the sentence that’s led to that usage, but it definitely isn’t intuitive a priori.
I always put my race as “Other” on forms that ask for it. I understand why they ask, but I grew up in Apartheid South Africa and remember all the forms that asked that there for very different reasons and am just glad most forms here give you the option of “Other”.
I don’t get why this is difficult. Sure, even if she did say it purely out of racial motivations, it shouldn’t be too hard to give a basic description of Sarah’s personality.
The problem is likely because she has no reason to think they’d be a good couple. It’s not like Sarah’s a body builder or has displayed an interest in muscle guys so she has nowhere to go but stick her foot in her mouth.
I like to think that in panel 3, something like this is going through Joyce’s mind:
“Yikes, you can’t just say “black!” Describe her personality! No, wait, don’t describe her personality! Maybe go with hobbies? What’s she into? Studying? Oh geez I really did not think this through”
I think mostly she started saying a thing without realizing how terrible it was and then she realized how terrible it was and got all flustered. Joyce is not intentionally awful, after all, just ignorant as hell.
It’s his LIPS. Hence ‘goldfish face’. They’re orange… nothing else is (as far as we can see bow chika bow wow). Hmm… his face is somewhat too round as well. Ya’ know, the more I look at him the creepier he gets. I think I’ll stop now.
Promoting an unhealthy diet while hiding the fact she’s on a drug as a result of a condition promoted by that diet, while clandestinely taking money from a company that makes that drug?
Nah, just a cholesterol-filled accidental racist whose arteries are so clogged that not enough blood gets to her brain for her to think before she speaks.
I’m not saying what Paula Deen did was acceptable or right, I’m just saying that if your brain had more cholesterol than blood, you’d say stupid shit that you grew up with, too.
I don’t think she meant to be racist, per se, but she was racist, and she deserves all the negative attention she’s getting for it.
Not really ALL of it. She’s just not used to different people. Like nudists. I could conceivably say something similar to a nudist regarding another nudist JUST because they’re nudists. Horrible, I know.
Joyce tries, she just doesn’t put brain in gear before she engages mouth.
And if NOT correct to call African descended people ‘just’ blacks, why is it okay to call caucasions people (sp?) ‘just’ white. Just askin?
Personally it doesn’t bother me to be refered to as white, even though that due to having some Spanish blood, I might be classed as part Latino, a term I don’t really hear outside of American TV shows.
I think it has to do with how you say it if anything. Saying someone is white or black isn’t offensive. But calling a group of people just their ethnic is weird. Saying, “look at that group of white people” sounds better then look at those whites”. “People” being the keyword that makes it okay cause that says “people who just so happen to be this way”. I personally would be confused if I and my family was referred to as ‘blacks”, cause that sounds like an Overlord minion type.
The alternative is that white people are never really referred to by people by their ethnicity. When you see someone who is white, you usually just say, “that guy”. When you see a person who’s black, “you usually say that black guy”. White being treated as the norm and so minorities are allow to make fun of them.
If someone prefers to be called “african-american” as suppose to “black”? I have no idea. I’m a black guy. I grew up in new york, not much African about me (hell my family is Caribbean-american if anything).
To be fair, white -is- the norm in the US and Europe, while black is the norm in Africa. Eskimo’s the norm where your dick freezes off when you pee.
For clarity people tend to attach small descriptors if they’re simple to use. Black/white’s pretty handy if sed group is a minority, not so much if mostly everyone’s that way. Also we’re very visual apes – if everyone would be wearing top-hats I’d wager ‘dapper’ would be used in place of any racial distinction.
…
What I’m trying to say is that verbal racial tensions can be diffused by wearing a tuxedo and a top hat. Extra points for a monocle.
Honestly, I think it almost purely because using a phrase like “the blacks” or “those Hispanics” has been such a constant feature of racist commentary on minority groups. The kind of thing an old racist grandma would say. That phrasing gets tainted and people react because it’s reminiscent. When you use the same word in a way that doesn’t resonate with that language, it usually doesn’t bother people.
And because you just don’t hear about “those whites”, that phrasing doesn’t really set people off.
Anyway, just because the reaction is inconsistent doesn’t make that reaction less real, so I usually figure there’s no reason to prod people.
Because white people have zero racial tension behind them and don’t care what they’re called. Seriously. Racially-charged names cannot hurt us because there is no power behind them, no oppression there, nothing.
Find me a white person who is actually offended by “cracker”, for example, and I’ll find you someone who just thinks they should be able to say the N-word with impunity and that it’s really unfair that we have a Black History Month but don’t have a White History Month. Someone with no sense of context or scale, in other words.
Unrelated, but I probably *would* be offended by being called cracker. I do not crack software.
I might qualify for being called hacker though. I had to hack my way around some seriously convoluted code. But I do not even begin to compare to the greats.
This. I do not give any shits if people wanna get down on me cause of my race b/c at the end of the day I still have my white people privileges and no amount of name calling is gonna change that. On the other hand I hate hate HATE when people whip out the sexist slurs like ‘c’mon guys being a lady is already hard as balls why you gotta be like that?’
In any case as a white person I get to make the call on what is or is not offense to white people, I do not get to make the call for people of other elasticities; if someone of color is offended by a thing then I just gotta accept that and not be a dick about it. It is called ‘not being a dick’.
Yet sometimes poking fun at old wounds is therapeutic for everyone involved.
Words only have power in a context and the day the old slurs stop being taken seriously will be a good day for equality. I won’t call a black person the N-word because that’s just not cool, I will however call my very white friends that and myself as well since it mocks the term itself therefor taking away it’s symbolic power/place and replacing it with a lighter tone.
On some parts of the Internet this is common parlance, and incidentally it is on those parts that the word isn’t offensive to anyone anymore because everyone knows it’s only used as a joke – much like ‘your mom with my penis for a nickel’ has lost all pejorative meaning around here or ‘fag’ just means ‘user’ on 4-chan.
Hopefully such practices spread past the Internet eventually and sad, offensive words loose their original meaning, thus taking some wind out of that still-lingering racial tension.
In terms of being correct/incorrect, it really depends on the person. :/. I know some people who saw the term “black” as really offensive, and others who saw it as just a term (both of these coming from someone who could fall under said description). Soooo…yeah, it’s the type of thing I just pay attention to and see if I cause any twitches by saying it.
I’m actually intrigued as to how Sarah and Jacob would interract now because Javob seems pretty nice and Sarah is perpetually grumpy. But, yeah, count me in the number who forgot for a second that Joyce’s roommate wasn’t Billie.
I bet there are like 5 black women at this university and Jacob has been set up with all of them. Let’s remember we’re not even a month into school yet.
To be fair, humans tend to be more sexually attracted to our own racial groups, by and large. Social change has somewhat diluted this, but it’s really not -quite- as racist as everyone seems to think it is. Now, saying it as the first thing after you meet him… yeah.
That sed, I’d be very interested in getting a black/Asian/Indian girlfriend one of these days and I’m pretty damn white if I don’t do enough farm work.
Ok, so maybe it is as racist as it sounds like. Still, this is Joyce damnit! New and unfamiliar with the setting’s social interactions is still a valid excuse here.
Hey, to be fair, he’s the FIFTH black person she’s met (remember Sierra?) if we count the mixed-race nature of Walky and Sal. She just knows that Sal’s got her own thing going on. And points for her to not immediately follow that up by suggesting Sierra.
She knows that Sarah’s grumpy and feels alone, so despite the incredibly racist implication that she and Jacob would be a good match just because they’re both black, she’s still kinda looking out for her roomate.
She should really try to get Sarah and Mike together, though. I’d LOVE to see them on at least one date.
I didn’t even consider that angle, especially since their last conversation was Joyce saying she’s made friends with her risk-taking while Sarah’s still alone. Good catch!
And good lord, Sarah and Mike. I can’t even imagine the consequences.
I did not remember, though now I’m happy Joyce didn’t assume Jacob was Sarah’s brother.
And, I could buy she’s looking out for Sarah if we had seen her trying to find her dates before, or if it had been established Sarah is looking for dates within her own skin tone spectrum. . .actually, looking for dates at all. But I really don’t think Joyce looked any further than “Hey these people have the same unusual skin color and compatible genitals, they must be made for each other”, and hey, it looks like even she realizes she goofed up when Jacob starts talking and she’s reminded that he’s a person.
I would have punched her in the throat. There’s nothing worse than white people who think that you’re automatically best buds with every other person who’s a similar shade of brown.
Also my penis in your mother. Wait, since this is me replying to myself, would that make it incest? Huh, well suppose for some that’s pretty terrible too.
I dunno, this page seems more of a stereotype than an actual credible character moment. I get that “Dumbing of Age” is a comedy so we need to embarrass people and make jokes, but I don’t recall any previous incident where Joyce has been particularly insensitive about colour so for her to suddenly blurt this out seems odd.
Well, I’d have to go back through the series to give you exact pages, but Joyce has always had a tendency to blurt out potentially racist statements due to having lived sheltered from most of the world. It’s not that she means to…just she doesn’t think things through before she says them. I recall her calling Billie Mexican at one point
Wasn’t there an incident before where she was talking about Sarah with Becky and essentially went on about “So yeah I have a BLACK roommate she’s BLACK like I’ve never roomed with a BLACK girl before do I call her my SISTER or are only BLACK people allowed to do that?”
And Sarah was standing RIGHT THERE, so…yeah. This kind of thoughtless blabbing isn’t new from Joyce. The difference is she at least seems to be aware (if only a little bit) about how some of the things she says are unacceptable.
This strip establishes both that Joyce has spent her life surrounded entirely by white people and that she’s liable to say dumb things because of it. (I feel like there are others, but this is the one I remember.)
Somehow, I think a shortpacked!, sex-addict version of Jacob would be more “perfect” for Joyce than Ethan. I’m shipping Joyce/Jacob now because I think he’s the straight guy who take her the most out of her comfort zone. Plus, an Ethan/Jacob/Joyce love triangle? Epic.
Fanart, commence fufilling my dreams and fantasies.
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You’re killing me, Joyce.
YOO AH TEHHING ME APAHT, JOYCE!
I’M FED AUP WITH THIS WULD!
…..Jesus?
win
O hai Mark.
WHAT DRUGS DENNY! WHAT DRUGSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
AH DID NUT HIT HUR, AH DID NAHT.
oh, Hai Jacob!
For a second there I thought you were all trying to talk in Ebonics.
I think ebonics (or even the old Jive talk from “Airplane!”) is FAR more comprehensible than that accent.
i almost spit water on my phone at that reference
Quick, arrest her for murder.
Actually it’d be attempted murder since she was caught in the act.
Oh Joyce, what will we ever do with you?
Trade her in for a less defective model? 😀
Is a retrofit also a possibility?
The developers are working on a patch.
Honest.
Of the nicotine kind now doubt.
Don’t be silly. The only thing Joyce is addicted to is the love of Jesus!
When it comes to communion wine and wavers, once you pop, you cannot stop.
What denomination is Joyce?
Nun-denominationial IIRC.
Seventh day advent-hoppist.
Get thee far from me, papist heretic!
[/Joyce]
I’d be a great Messiah.
“This is my body. Sit on this appendage. This is not my blood. No… don’t ask, just do what I tell you!”
She’s been damaged too much.
Trade her in for a less-been model.
What about a les-bian model? Preferably with an on-board camera. What’s the markup on that one?
One of these days she’ll run it through her head before she says it out loud.
When will that be? 10 or 20 years from now?
No.
No it will not.
So we’re looking at less time, then…?
This is what happens when you don’t grow up around minorities; when you meet one you have no idea how to interact.
Trust me, white kids from diverse neighborhoods say plenty of racist shit without realizing it.
Trust me, kids from diverse neighborhoods say plenty of racist shit without realizing it.
Yeah but it’s two different types of racism:
Kids from homogeneous neighborhoods learn the stereotypes without seeing what the people they are applied to are really like, while kids from diverse neighborhoods see the behaviors that caused the stereotypes as “normal” and don’t realize it’s inappropriate to generalize them to other people.
Trust me, people say plenty of racist shit without realizing it
Trust me, kids say plenty of racist shit.
win
. . . you just had to get in their and defend those poor white people, huh? :/
I’ve been there, I was that solider. As well as ableist and probably sexist to boot.
It’s something you can grow out of, but it does require some self awareness and you end up always second guessing yourself…
Oh, Joyce. Joycey Joyce.
Joycey Joycey Joycey Joyce.
I forgot what I was going to say because that is just too much fun.
Rejoycing I see.
She needs a de-joycing if you ask me.
A Joyce-ing machine would work best, to remove it from the pulp.
Pulp? Like this @ Octo Pie? http://bit.ly/11WPgRR
A good joe-ing would fik all her ills.
Hey, at least she didn’t start with a racial slur or something offensive.
Always remember, it could be worse.
She could have set him on fire with her lust-fuelled stare.
Maybe he set off the fire alarm, with his SMOKIN’ HOT BODY.
…I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at my pun.
Option C: defending yourself from a class action lawsuit for the pain and suffering that pun has caused.
Is it hot enough to have a BBQ on it?
Crack open an egg on his abs. That shit will SIZZLE.
Just don’t try that on Walky’s sister. You’ll get SALmonella!
Now now, we all know that Joyce’s lack of a lust-fuelled stare for Jacob means that she only lusts for Sal.
Sal’s motorbike.
FIXED!
Caramel.
RE-FIXED!
She could have said ‘No wonder Ethan’s gay.’
she kinda did start with something offensive
thats the point
Five minutes Joyce! That’s all we’re asking of you! Just five minutes where you don’t stick your foot in your mouth! Metaphorically. If you did it literally that’d be kind’f hot.
Kinda nasty, really. Foot doesn’t taste good…….I expect.
Incredibly nasty. Feet are gross.
What if she washed them first?
Hey, she should be all about washing feet, right?
And before she can wash feet, she has to uncover them…
Oh wait we’re talking about HER OWN feet. Somehow that’s not quite as hot.
Only because you (we?) go around barefoot all the time.
Nice fresh socks, pair of odor-eaters in the shoes, shower every morning giving them a quick scrub… and it’s just skin, yknow?
I was trying to figure out why Joyce is acting the way she does, until I remembered who Joyce’s room-mate was.
I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.
For a few seconds, I thought Joyce’s room-mate was either Dotty, Dina or Sierra.
I had the same problem, except my first thought was:
“Billie? Well, she’s looking out for a friend at least! Wait. She’s not rooming with Billie… Who’s she rooming with agai- Oh. Oh… *facepalm* Really, Joyce? Just because Jacob and Sarah are both black? Really?!”
Had the same reaction. For some reason i remembered she was billies roommate.
Same. It didn’t strike me until after I saw Joyce’s realization.
You mean, BILLIE?
It wasn’t until now that I realised her roommate isn’t Billie.
Room-mates:
Billie and Sal
Joyce and Sarah
Dotty and Sierra
Amber and Dina
They share a half-bathroom, so they kinda are.
I think that just makes them half-of-a-bathroom-mates, which is totally a phrase that exists in language.
“Suitemate” is probably the word you’re looking for.
The first time I heard that word I thought it was “sweet mate,” which was very confusing in the context.
[Insert Picard-facepalm image here.]
[Jackie Chan WTF Image Counter]
[David Silverman AREYOUSERIOUS face]
[David Willis Troll Face here]
[Damn you Willis rageface here]
[this face intentionally left blank]
[carface]
Poor Joyce, remembering for a fact that Sarah is, in fact, a grump, and would not be perfect for a guy that she knows for all of three seconds.
…Betcha thought you knew where I was going with this. THE JOKE IS ON YOU!
Get it off, get it off, get it off! I’m allergic to jokes! Aaaaaah!
Quick! Use this Epi-pen!
What Joyce meant to say: “You’re perfect for me. Abs.”
I ♥ Jacob’s response.
Now, Jacob… take off your shirt. Take of your shirt! Do it. Do it, do it, do it!
His is the type that will do anything a woman wants.
SHOW ME YOUR NIPPLES, JACOB!
Jacob/Dina, Moe Couplet.
Darn it, PM, you gotta put a TVTropes Link Warning on that shit!
Joyce is so awkward, isn’t she? haha
Playing matchmaker is next to godliness.
It’s OK, they probably already know each other anyway.
What? What!?
No, no, it’s fine.
THOSE people ALWAYS know each other.
You know. Sophomores.
Do we know if Jacob’s a sophomore, actually?
Gotta ask, is there a significant number of blacks going to IU or are they a tiny proportion of the student population?
I’m pretty sure we’re not supposed to refer to them as just ‘blacks’.
People of a descent that gives their epidermal layer a naturally dark skin tone is a bit of a mouthful.
I could have also chosen the term “of African decent” but I used black cos for most part, almost everyone knows what someone means when you use the word black in a racial sense, the same way when you hear the word white you think “of Europeon decent” or possibly “of NW Europeon decent”.
Yeah, “black people” is more accepted than “blacks” because referring to people with a summarizing identifying descriptor is kind of dehumanizing, since people are all multifaceted and more than any one descriptor can capture. The race breakdown of IU according to “college prowler”:
African American 4%
Asian 4%
Hispanic 3%
International 9%
Native American 0%
White 77%
Unknown 1%
Historically Black College/University? No
Tribal College? No
Out-of-State Students 38%
Also, to put it in context, in 2011 the US census bureau estimated 13.1% of Americans identified as African American compared to 9.4% of Hoosiers.
I also heard somewhere that in America if you, your parents or grandparents came from Africa, you are clearly African-American, if your family has lived in the US since at least the 18th century, you’re Black.
I’m not sure if there is any point in a distiction like this unless “African-Americans” see themselves as different from “Blacks”.
The issue is the way you’re saying it. It’s ‘black people’ not ‘blacks’.
‘white people’ sounds terrible, I’d rather be called ‘white’. In the interest of equality, I’m using ‘black’. If subject of sed descriptor has a problem with it, he’s welcome to forward another term he personally agrees with more.
Most black people prefer “African-American”, as if they don’t think they should be fully American.
Um… no. That’s not the reason.
(At least not in the vast majority of cases. Unwise to speak in absolutes, particularly when you’re dealing with c. 40 million people)
But seriously, why do you think African Americans don’t think they should be fully American? Also, if (while in the USA) you see a “kiss me, I’m Irish” t-shirt do you assume the person wearing it is saying s/he isn’t American at all?
wtf dude
i guess someone was bound to out-racist joyce in today’s comments but damn
hey people… next time you visit IU, drive north a few hours to Gary.
Try 1 block off 5th & Broadway. At 1am. Report back if you live. Murder cap of USA, many, many times.
Per Cap – per cap.
… seriously? I’ve driven through Gary at 1 am and later lots of times, and I’m so white I glow in the dark. I have yet to be shot. Or maimed. Or murdered, etc.
Also, it’s not “a few hours” from Bloomington to Gary. Closer to 5 or 6.
^ obviously, your car looks too cheap. Or not redneck enough.
Down where I live the term African-American will get you dirty stares from a lot of black people. I was partly raised by a black family and the father once told me that the term African-American sounded too much like something said by someone scared to call him what he is. Black.
But that doesn’t seem to be the case in other parts of the country. So it really depends.
In some regions of Europe the preferred term is “brown” (not necessarily the English word for brown).
My Jamaican boss likes referring the kids we work with according to their true colors: chocolate, caramel, peachy-cream, pepperoni.
Yes, my Jamaican boss in Europe.
Hummmm, a delicious workplace …
What parts? It certainly doesn’t apply in the UK, where you’d want to use the term “black people” rather than “blacks”, and (just FYI) “gay people” rather than “gays”.
(Obviously, calling a black British guy “African-American” would just be weird.)
So, ‘white/black people’ would be the plural for ‘black/white’ as well as for ‘black/white person’? I -sort- of get it, but this is pretty inane PC-ism. There’s a reason why it’s ‘Brits’, not ‘British people’ in common parlance.
peachy-cream? pepperoni? I have zero idea what ethnicities must have been involved to create those colors.
Wait… why are all of those also innuendo?
I hope that the “unknown” 1% are Native Americans, otherwise that statistic is kinda depressing.
Well, it would still be kinda depressing, but still…
Oddly enough, it gets a little more subtle (at least judging from an average of mainstream media articles I read).
“Blacks” is used as a subject frequently, and I rarely see people offended.
For instance, “Blacks/hispanics voted predominantly for…. in that election”
When preceded by an article, it sounds loads worse to the ear, and people react. e.g. “…for the blacks…”. Even “…for blacks…” sounds almost as bad.
I know to my ear the latter two sound worse; I’m going to guess it’s a matter of agency within the sentence that’s led to that usage, but it definitely isn’t intuitive a priori.
I always put my race as “Other” on forms that ask for it. I understand why they ask, but I grew up in Apartheid South Africa and remember all the forms that asked that there for very different reasons and am just glad most forms here give you the option of “Other”.
I don’t get why this is difficult. Sure, even if she did say it purely out of racial motivations, it shouldn’t be too hard to give a basic description of Sarah’s personality.
Ya know. Cyncial. Grumpy. Fond of baseball bats.
The problem is likely because she has no reason to think they’d be a good couple. It’s not like Sarah’s a body builder or has displayed an interest in muscle guys so she has nowhere to go but stick her foot in her mouth.
I like to think that in panel 3, something like this is going through Joyce’s mind:
“Yikes, you can’t just say “black!” Describe her personality! No, wait, don’t describe her personality! Maybe go with hobbies? What’s she into? Studying? Oh geez I really did not think this through”
In the inevitable Dumbing of Age cartoon, can we get Zach Braff to provide Joyce’s inner monologue?
YES. ALL OF MY YES.
I think mostly she started saying a thing without realizing how terrible it was and then she realized how terrible it was and got all flustered. Joyce is not intentionally awful, after all, just ignorant as hell.
Jacob kind of creeps me out. Just his face. It’s like a freaky… goldfish face. Or something. I can’t explain it.
It’s his LIPS. Hence ‘goldfish face’. They’re orange… nothing else is (as far as we can see bow chika bow wow). Hmm… his face is somewhat too round as well. Ya’ know, the more I look at him the creepier he gets. I think I’ll stop now.
Damn girl, that foot in mouth disease is gonna get fatal soon. Engage brain before mouth, dear.
Dang it Joyce… I try to be on your side (or at least understand it), i really do, but you can’t just /do/ things like that…
^^ ironic pic for my thing…
At least this time she didn’t call him a novelty.
Joyce might grow up to be Paula Deen. Just sayin’.
Promoting an unhealthy diet while hiding the fact she’s on a drug as a result of a condition promoted by that diet, while clandestinely taking money from a company that makes that drug?
Nah, just a cholesterol-filled accidental racist whose arteries are so clogged that not enough blood gets to her brain for her to think before she speaks.
I’m not saying what Paula Deen did was acceptable or right, I’m just saying that if your brain had more cholesterol than blood, you’d say stupid shit that you grew up with, too.
I don’t think she meant to be racist, per se, but she was racist, and she deserves all the negative attention she’s getting for it.
I think she completely meant to be racist. She just didn’t mean to get in trouble for it.
Not really ALL of it. She’s just not used to different people. Like nudists. I could conceivably say something similar to a nudist regarding another nudist JUST because they’re nudists. Horrible, I know.
Jacob totally looks like a Goron.
Joyce tries, she just doesn’t put brain in gear before she engages mouth.
And if NOT correct to call African descended people ‘just’ blacks, why is it okay to call caucasions people (sp?) ‘just’ white. Just askin?
Personally it doesn’t bother me to be refered to as white, even though that due to having some Spanish blood, I might be classed as part Latino, a term I don’t really hear outside of American TV shows.
I think it has to do with how you say it if anything. Saying someone is white or black isn’t offensive. But calling a group of people just their ethnic is weird. Saying, “look at that group of white people” sounds better then look at those whites”. “People” being the keyword that makes it okay cause that says “people who just so happen to be this way”. I personally would be confused if I and my family was referred to as ‘blacks”, cause that sounds like an Overlord minion type.
The alternative is that white people are never really referred to by people by their ethnicity. When you see someone who is white, you usually just say, “that guy”. When you see a person who’s black, “you usually say that black guy”. White being treated as the norm and so minorities are allow to make fun of them.
If someone prefers to be called “african-american” as suppose to “black”? I have no idea. I’m a black guy. I grew up in new york, not much African about me (hell my family is Caribbean-american if anything).
To be fair, white -is- the norm in the US and Europe, while black is the norm in Africa. Eskimo’s the norm where your dick freezes off when you pee.
For clarity people tend to attach small descriptors if they’re simple to use. Black/white’s pretty handy if sed group is a minority, not so much if mostly everyone’s that way. Also we’re very visual apes – if everyone would be wearing top-hats I’d wager ‘dapper’ would be used in place of any racial distinction.
…
What I’m trying to say is that verbal racial tensions can be diffused by wearing a tuxedo and a top hat. Extra points for a monocle.
Honestly, I think it almost purely because using a phrase like “the blacks” or “those Hispanics” has been such a constant feature of racist commentary on minority groups. The kind of thing an old racist grandma would say. That phrasing gets tainted and people react because it’s reminiscent. When you use the same word in a way that doesn’t resonate with that language, it usually doesn’t bother people.
And because you just don’t hear about “those whites”, that phrasing doesn’t really set people off.
Anyway, just because the reaction is inconsistent doesn’t make that reaction less real, so I usually figure there’s no reason to prod people.
Because white people have zero racial tension behind them and don’t care what they’re called. Seriously. Racially-charged names cannot hurt us because there is no power behind them, no oppression there, nothing.
Find me a white person who is actually offended by “cracker”, for example, and I’ll find you someone who just thinks they should be able to say the N-word with impunity and that it’s really unfair that we have a Black History Month but don’t have a White History Month. Someone with no sense of context or scale, in other words.
Unrelated, but I probably *would* be offended by being called cracker. I do not crack software.
I might qualify for being called hacker though. I had to hack my way around some seriously convoluted code. But I do not even begin to compare to the greats.
This. I do not give any shits if people wanna get down on me cause of my race b/c at the end of the day I still have my white people privileges and no amount of name calling is gonna change that. On the other hand I hate hate HATE when people whip out the sexist slurs like ‘c’mon guys being a lady is already hard as balls why you gotta be like that?’
In any case as a white person I get to make the call on what is or is not offense to white people, I do not get to make the call for people of other elasticities; if someone of color is offended by a thing then I just gotta accept that and not be a dick about it. It is called ‘not being a dick’.
Yet sometimes poking fun at old wounds is therapeutic for everyone involved.
Words only have power in a context and the day the old slurs stop being taken seriously will be a good day for equality. I won’t call a black person the N-word because that’s just not cool, I will however call my very white friends that and myself as well since it mocks the term itself therefor taking away it’s symbolic power/place and replacing it with a lighter tone.
On some parts of the Internet this is common parlance, and incidentally it is on those parts that the word isn’t offensive to anyone anymore because everyone knows it’s only used as a joke – much like ‘your mom with my penis for a nickel’ has lost all pejorative meaning around here or ‘fag’ just means ‘user’ on 4-chan.
Hopefully such practices spread past the Internet eventually and sad, offensive words loose their original meaning, thus taking some wind out of that still-lingering racial tension.
In terms of being correct/incorrect, it really depends on the person. :/. I know some people who saw the term “black” as really offensive, and others who saw it as just a term (both of these coming from someone who could fall under said description). Soooo…yeah, it’s the type of thing I just pay attention to and see if I cause any twitches by saying it.
I’m actually intrigued as to how Sarah and Jacob would interract now because Javob seems pretty nice and Sarah is perpetually grumpy. But, yeah, count me in the number who forgot for a second that Joyce’s roommate wasn’t Billie.
They seem to share an affinity for snarking at Joyce, at least.
I am too. Jacob has always struck me as personable.
Sarah wouldn’t be grumpy anymore after being jacobed. Jacob would jacob the grumpy out of her.
Nice. Just nice Joyce.
I bet there are like 5 black women at this university and Jacob has been set up with all of them. Let’s remember we’re not even a month into school yet.
To be fair, humans tend to be more sexually attracted to our own racial groups, by and large. Social change has somewhat diluted this, but it’s really not -quite- as racist as everyone seems to think it is. Now, saying it as the first thing after you meet him… yeah.
That sed, I’d be very interested in getting a black/Asian/Indian girlfriend one of these days and I’m pretty damn white if I don’t do enough farm work.
Ok, so maybe it is as racist as it sounds like. Still, this is Joyce damnit! New and unfamiliar with the setting’s social interactions is still a valid excuse here.
Hello second black person I’ve ever seen! Have you seen the other black person? You should have so much in common since you’re both black!
Thor’s beard, Joyce, even you should be able to figure out that just because you know two black people doesn’t mean there are only two black people.
We’re probably lucky she’s not calling Jacob a son of Ham and demanding he be put to slave work, on reflection.
Hey, to be fair, he’s the FIFTH black person she’s met (remember Sierra?) if we count the mixed-race nature of Walky and Sal. She just knows that Sal’s got her own thing going on. And points for her to not immediately follow that up by suggesting Sierra.
She knows that Sarah’s grumpy and feels alone, so despite the incredibly racist implication that she and Jacob would be a good match just because they’re both black, she’s still kinda looking out for her roomate.
She should really try to get Sarah and Mike together, though. I’d LOVE to see them on at least one date.
I didn’t even consider that angle, especially since their last conversation was Joyce saying she’s made friends with her risk-taking while Sarah’s still alone. Good catch!
And good lord, Sarah and Mike. I can’t even imagine the consequences.
All aboard the SaraxMike, next destination: DOOM! HORROR! JAYWALKING!
I did not remember, though now I’m happy Joyce didn’t assume Jacob was Sarah’s brother.
And, I could buy she’s looking out for Sarah if we had seen her trying to find her dates before, or if it had been established Sarah is looking for dates within her own skin tone spectrum. . .actually, looking for dates at all. But I really don’t think Joyce looked any further than “Hey these people have the same unusual skin color and compatible genitals, they must be made for each other”, and hey, it looks like even she realizes she goofed up when Jacob starts talking and she’s reminded that he’s a person.
Hasn’t Joyce already me Sierra? Only reason she hasn’t set her up with with Sarah is because she’s still in her ‘homosexuality is a sin’ phase.
Joyce just can’t get a break today XDXDXDXD
no Roadblock poster?
yo but seriously they would be super perfect for each other
I would have punched her in the throat. There’s nothing worse than white people who think that you’re automatically best buds with every other person who’s a similar shade of brown.
Except ya know… genocide n’ Hitler. Also Pol Pot and Twilight.
Also my penis in your mother. Wait, since this is me replying to myself, would that make it incest? Huh, well suppose for some that’s pretty terrible too.
“No, no, no, she’s just an angry misanthrope who doesn’t want anything to do with the social scene, which seems like…your…type?”
Joyceus.
I dunno, this page seems more of a stereotype than an actual credible character moment. I get that “Dumbing of Age” is a comedy so we need to embarrass people and make jokes, but I don’t recall any previous incident where Joyce has been particularly insensitive about colour so for her to suddenly blurt this out seems odd.
Well, I’d have to go back through the series to give you exact pages, but Joyce has always had a tendency to blurt out potentially racist statements due to having lived sheltered from most of the world. It’s not that she means to…just she doesn’t think things through before she says them. I recall her calling Billie Mexican at one point
Wasn’t there an incident before where she was talking about Sarah with Becky and essentially went on about “So yeah I have a BLACK roommate she’s BLACK like I’ve never roomed with a BLACK girl before do I call her my SISTER or are only BLACK people allowed to do that?”
And Sarah was standing RIGHT THERE, so…yeah. This kind of thoughtless blabbing isn’t new from Joyce. The difference is she at least seems to be aware (if only a little bit) about how some of the things she says are unacceptable.
Here, I can help.
Sisters: regarding Sarah
Mixed: regarding Billie
David: regarding Walky
This kind of thing is, admittedly, not a super-frequent occurrence for Joyce, but it happens.
I beg to differ: if you consider the fact that the strip’s covered maybe 3 weeks of time, it’s pretty frequent…
This strip establishes both that Joyce has spent her life surrounded entirely by white people and that she’s liable to say dumb things because of it. (I feel like there are others, but this is the one I remember.)
This one and the next, too.
On Jacob’s end, it seems pretty common. He gets a bit snarky about this stuff, judging from Shortpacked.
“She’s got a great personality!”
Somehow, I think a shortpacked!, sex-addict version of Jacob would be more “perfect” for Joyce than Ethan. I’m shipping Joyce/Jacob now because I think he’s the straight guy who take her the most out of her comfort zone. Plus, an Ethan/Jacob/Joyce love triangle? Epic.
Fanart, commence fufilling my dreams and fantasies.
This is fantastic all around.
Aw up until the last panel he’s still giving her the benefit of the doubt.
and he’s so excited in the second panel. like he thinks she’s about to mention her roommate’s really into fitness or something and then nooooope.
Joyce, you’re just so damn adorable sometimes! A lot of the time, actually.
Hey! You can’t say “white kids”! That’s racist!
someone needs the magic “restart” button
SUDDENLY EYEBROWS
Poor Joyce always making bad first impressions.
Poor Ethan. He has so much awkward in his life already and then Joyce has to go and “Joyce-it-up” even more!
Just noticed this but not one webcomic iv read has ever made a beatlejuice reference… kind of expect it from this one though
Comment section made a few in previous pages.
I thought she was talking about Sal at first, and was like “…But isn’t she boning up on her math skills?”
Aww… she’s doing the whole ‘they should be together because they’re the same race’ thing. That is sadly adorable.
“That is sadly adorable.”……………………………..that quote is SUCH A WIN! 🙂
So Jacob is officially voiced by Phil Lamarr in my head now. He probably always should have been.
Thar be a lot of racist bullshit here matees
Bayformers poster? racism? This strip has problems all over it!