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Just a few hundred dollars remain until YOU GET COMICS ON SATURDAY, STARTING TOMORROW.
*nudge nudge*
WE DID IT
COME BACK TOMORROW FOR A NEW STRIP, woulda been monday’s but now it’s SATURDAY’S
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Lies from your mouth
Well, at least her hips don’t lie.
Too many sexy ladies for Joyce!
For Joyce?
Don’t you mean Billie?
Poor girl, she’s apparently not only Lesbian-Candy, but Bicurious-Candy!
How do you know you won’t like it if you haven’t even tried it?
That sounds like EXACTLY what Satan would say 😛
You don’t need to take a bite of an excrement sandwich to know it tastes like excrement.
The Mike avatar sells that for me so hard, you don’t even know!
Well, how do you know if you enjoy the taste of poop or not unless you taste it? Just cause your instincts tell you something is no reason not to consider they may be wrong. I mean, our instincts tell us to kill people who look different.
No one can resist a freckled shoulder, Joyce. No one.
Especially not Walky.
Too late, Joyce. Your fate was sealed the moment you laid eyes on Billie.
I doesn’t matter how hard you try Joyce, you are only delaying the inevitable.
To be fair, her Walkyverse counterpart delayed it longer than almost any other female character in the ‘Verse…
Maybe I never got that far over there (I prefer new characters in different universes!) – but I’ll have to look.
Willis! – Do a KickStarter for another version of these “Universes,” along the lines of http://www.ma3comic.com (Menage-A-3) – and I’ll bet you top $20K just to START IT!
It’s OK 2 B Gay
I’d like you anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuR5YMyfeNI
I don’t know how to do the text link thing ^
(a href=”url”)Words You Want Displayed(/a)
Just replace () with greater than and less than symbols.
Wait, all the brackets or just the one’s at the end.
I’m just going to try it.
I’d like you anyway
IT WORKED WOO!
Good job, you now know html.
Is his name Lancelot?
It’s okay to be Sir Integra Fairbrook Wingates Hellsing.
Joyce, Chillax.
Us LGBT folks aren’t scary at all, and we don’t bite (unless that’s what you discover you’re into, then by all means…)
There is nothing wrong at all with liking people of the same gender. Me and my girlfriend go way back.
Suddenly I regret saying anything at all in this conversation and I feel like I should’ve just stayed away from this topic.
Willis, you can delete these two posts if you’d like.
Nah props for saying it.
I kind of think pushing people into a group like that is rather silly. I’m not a big fan of advocacy groups speaking for everyone either. Not everyone’s identity comes from sexuality or their sex.
Joyce, calm down, breathe. Slowly, okay? And let go of Billie’s hand, your crushing it.
Joyce, you can grab Billie’s butt instead, it’s more resilient (and softer).
Or her boobs. They’re softest of all.
yes and feel at ease as Billie starts cradling you into her bosom
Don’t deny it.
You know you want it.
Could be worse, she could have been robosexual like Malaya.
In this universe that’s called “having toys” and she already met Sarah.
In this universe, Malaya falls in love with Roz’s hat.
Yes, Ultra-Car is a dildo-hat in this reality. Betcha didn’t know that.
…That explains everything.
in this reality, ultradildohat despises erself for being so… entangled… with those messy humans
This makes DoA much more closer to Girls with Slingshots than I thought.
You know, I’ve never seen more people pushing for a character to turn into a lesbian than I have in these boards. I don’t know, it’s starting to make me feel uncomfortable. No joke. I hope this doesn’t come off homophobic, and now it does by saying that. Okay, soft reset.
What I am talking about is it makes me uncomfortable with all this pushing because I imagine everyone saying this to an actual woman (or man) who was having this conflict, I don’t think it would help them through their issues, I imagine it would probably make it worse. Imagine if someone kept saying play with the ball, but you want to play with Legos, but they keep pushing the ball in your face. I should not have used ball. This is probably a terrible analogy. Metaphor. I really need to take an English course at university.
I’m sorry.
I started the above comment before this comment led to an entirely different place. Now this is just awkward. Not that it wasn’t before.
Pretty sure we ship everyone with everyone. All it takes is but one expression or one suggestive situation and there will be ships. I doubt most are even sincere in their shipping’s – most just say it’s a joke. It’s a bandwagon and the whole Internet’s in on the
gag.
yea… i chalk it up to a disconnect of a fictional character and real people in this case, and thus this situation is a nice outlet for people to be a little silly and ignore being politically correct, but you’re not wrong for feeling this way.
personally, i’m rooting for joyce not to lose or corrupt her morals. i think it’d be nice to see, but that’s me.
Well the thing is, when you say corrupt her morals, the morals are whats the problem here because they also include “It’s okay to try and convert Ethan from homosexuality” which also gives me disconnect in this situation. The thing is, what I want to see out of this arc is that Joyce eventually says it’s okay for others to be gay.
Okay this is going to take a while for me to explain. I now see some sort of.. double standard. That is probably not the right word. Maybe we can find the right one. If a bunch of people were trying to force a gay man to turn straight, that would obviously be wrong. Assuming that Joyce isn’t in fact gay, this is how I view thee situation. Maybe this sort of thing is what Willis has planned, to demonstrate the point of what it feels like from a gay person’s perspective when people tell them to stop being gay. I hope this doesn’t make me look like a complete tool, I don’t think I’ve got my head on straight right now.
Eh, if a gay man was craving a little boob action and was going through a crisis of identity over it, I would absolutely be sitting there going “DUDE. YOU CAN BE BI. IT’S AN OPTION AND IT IS OKAY.” Like if Ethan was -actually- attracted to Joyce, and was freaking out because he thought he was supposed to be gay.
Being okay with who you are, as long as who you are isn’t destructive to others, is good.
Personally, I ship Joyrothy, so any development that steers us in the direction of hot christian-on-atheist shenanigans is okay with me!
You mention a double standard here, and there certainly is one — two, in fact.
Shipping a “straight” romance is always considered acceptable, and is always assumed to be at least somewhat plausible; Joyce/Joe is somehow “better” than Joyce/Dorothy, even though we know for a fact that Joe and Joyce are not compatible and that a Joyce who fell for Joe would be as susceptible to “losing” some of her “morals”.
This is not because Joyce is straight, but because Joyce has not yet been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be gay. Characters, ALL, characters, are straight as a default until proven otherwise — AND EVEN AFTER BEING PROVEN OTHERWISE. The number of times fans have asked Willis if Ethan is “still gay in this universe” or have attempted to suggest that he might be secretly bisexual or biromantic is a number too high for my brain to even comprehend.
So actually your claim that it would be “obviously wrong” doesn’t hold water. You and I may agree that it would be wrong and that it should be obviously so, but it is empirically not. People do it constantly, and not just to Ethan or as politely as they’ve done it to Ethan; there are lots of people out there on the Internet right now saying that a lesbian character needs to be ducked straight, or even lesbian real life people!
So to wrap up:
1) It seems like there’s more respect for non-straight sexual identities than straight ones in any given fandom because “straight” is often less a fictional sexuality than a default one. Unless a character thinks about it and decides no on screen, it’s perfectly realistic to think they’re not really or not completely straight, and that “addressing the question on screen” thing is very rare. Vastly more characters are PRESUMED straight than are actually definitively straight.
Also, as anyone who is queer in real life will tell you, thinking one is straight or convincing oneself one is straight for years and years of one’s life only to later discover differently… is a thing that happens.
So: characters are rarely definitively straight, and even when they are we know there’s still the potential for gray area.
Conversely, a character who is queer is always definitively queer, by creator word if nothing else, and for all the “phase” nonsense we get spoonfed coming out is not something people are WRONG about. They go back into the closet sometimes, but it’s just not a fun ride you choose to take for no reason. Both fictionally and in real life, a non-straight identity is less likely to be a mistake.
And just because THIS ONE STRIP is by Willis doesn’t change the context it exists in.
2) I’ll respect creator intent on straight character sexuality when we live in a world where non-straight characters are as common as straight ones, but until then I reserve the right to seek out more representation of me. Similarly, the Human Torcg being played by an awesome black dude will only be racefail when we live in a world where non-white superheroes are in any danger of being lost or forgotten. (This will never happen.)
As things stand, knowing a creator frowns on gay characters and would never make any or gets outraged at the thought that someone is “twisting” his babies actually makes me want to ship gay pairings harder. Because fuck that guy.
See also: Bioware’s epic fail in asserting 1) that Commander Shepard is straight (uh, more than half your female romance options disagree!), and 2) “no one is gay in the Star Wars universe” (again female romance options don’t count I guess) (and also seriously FUCK YOU).
3) People who are cheering for Joyce/Billie should not be worse than people cheering for Joyce/Joe. Just being a same sex pairing should not make something automatically worse for her. She’s in an unstable place? Then she shouldn’t be dating at all. She especially shouldn’t be dating Ethan, but people still ship that.
Did I miss anything?
No, that seems pretty comprehensive. In Bioware’s defense, those things were ultimately addressed, even if they were stupid comments at the time. ;p
I will never understand people that ship Joyce/Ethan.
What I was not attempting was to say that I am not fine with other people shipping. It’s not my thing, but I’ve made my peace with it and I have absolutely nothing against anyone who does it, or anyone on the board. I am also not against it happening where sexuality of characters are altered or explored, as long as it is not malicious. I’m straight but I know there are aspects of my sexuality that do not fit perfectly with that descriptor that I am exploring in my own time, and I am really not ready to expand on this any further than that so please don’t pry. Maybe I have been projecting my own insecurities on to the situation that I feel I am witnessing with the board and Joyce. All I know is that in my case, a bunch of people pushing for me to just give in, before I myself were ready for it, it would give me a panic attack. Heck, this is the first time I am actually expressing to other people anything about my sexuality, and it is making my chest hurt because I am afraid of what my family will think, and my brother occasionaly looks at these forums, which is making me really want to double back and erase this whole response. This is the way I am empathizing with Joyce at the moment. By the last strip, she has been shown getting curious. I think it is fine if she explores those feelings, and if she were to find that maybe she herself was gay or bi or somewhere between these things and straight, at least she gains an understanding of herself and of others, but just seeing how panicked she is about the situation right now and how so many people are pushing it, even in jest, it’s making me uncomfrotable because it looks like Joyce is about ready to collapse.
I’m also all for video games expanding on sexuality, although I would find it really weird if Mario was kissing Bowser, not that he has ever actually been seen kissing Peach. Okay, that should lighten things up a bit.
First: /hug
Being confused sucks and sexuality is confusing, and I really wish not-straight sexualities would hurry up and get destigmatized because I hope that will make it less of a THING. If being gay stopped being seen as abnormal, all the shades of it would hopefully also be more accepted, and it especially sucks that you have to worry about being seen making these comments.
SOME of what gets directed at Joyce is at least partially malicious, because some of us get catharsis out of seeing someone with beliefs like hers get shaken up. I also think that this comic feels like a safe space for expressing that, because those of us who still like Joyce despite what she reminds us of (like me!) feel pretty sure that everything will work out okay for her in the end. Her lesbian panic right now is okay, because Willis won’t actually hurt her. SHE’S afraid, but I don’t have to be afraid for her.
Does that make sense?
/hugs again
You’re fine, by the way. Fine and valid and if you never want to experiment at all, that’s fine! I have a tiny bit of heterosexual interest, but not enough that I’d want to act on it — more like just enough to appreciate Chris Hemsworth’s arms. And that’s okay. If all you ever want to do is quietly think some men are attractive, that is completely fine.
The most important thing is that you get to a place where you can be comfortable with you. <3
Ya, I understand what you’re saying. It’s not that I ever felt like Joyce wasn’t going to come out of this alright, but maybe I just starting treating fiction too much like reality. Joyce can’t actually be affected by our comments. Maybe I just let myself take this too far. I’ll lay off on the whole thing for right now. And thanks for the hugs… again.
Ya know, I’m pretty straight. Or, at least my penis is (hurr durr). But there have been a few moments in my life where I have considered getting a satisfying mouthful of dick – especially my own (sadly I failed there). Pretty sure I can still safely call myself mostly heterosexual, though I do tend to go more for ‘pansexual’ these days if actually asked for specifics.
Heck, even that I’m unsure of until I actually do have teh gay sex – which is, quite frankly, very unlikely to ever happen. Sexuality is a gelatinous substance at times – I think of it more as a non-Newtonian fluid then a solid nowadays.
TL;DR: Sexuality is a non-Newtonian fluid. /hug
You make many valid points. But there seems to be a bit of a disconnect throughout the thread: one can’t consciously CHANGE his or her sexual orientation. If you’re a guy and hot guys put the torque in your shorts and hot girls don’t do anything for you … you’re gay. You can ACT straight if you want to, but that won’t change your orientation. And that goes exactly the same for any other gender/orientation combination. If a girl (let’s take Joyce as an example) likes boys and has always liked boys and the idea of pairing up with her girl bff has never crossed her mind … she’s straight. She doesn’t have to be WORRIED about “becoming” a lesbian. She can’t. She doesn’t have the wiring for it. In her current situation, though, having been raised in a Very Strictly Defined climate, where “homosexuals are sinful and are going to Hell” was absorbed along with every other aspect of her moral code, she may have never before had the OPTION of entertaining such thoughts. But now she does, and it’s freaking her out. Lots of new input. It will have to be processed. And if she spends half a hundred sleepless nights going over all the ramifications, she may come to some surprising conclusions.
Or not.
I think that basic misinformation is a lot of what is behind gay-bashing by these super-macho straight guys. Either they Don’t Understand the Mechanism (orientation is present at birth and is largely determined by the makeup of hormones in the amniotic fluid at certain points in the pregnancy) and so they are reacting strongly against something they FEAR, or they Don’t Understand the Mechanism and have harbored same-sex attractions for years and are violently denying them due to cultural or religious pressures. What they need to comprehend in either case is that they Can’t Change Who They Are. They can lie about it, if they fall into the second category, and pretend to be straight, but it only frustrates them … and any woman unlucky enough to marry one (thinking of my cousin here…). If they are in the first category, they need to comprehend that they don’t have to worry about “catching the gay”. They don’t have to fear it. Same-sex orientation shows up in 5-10% of the population, in all cultures throughout history. It is a NATURAL variation. It is present in nature in hundreds of non-primate species. They just need to Get Over It Already.
Both of my daughters are bi. The older one has no hard-set gender identification. She feels girly sometimes and masculine sometimes. She likes girls (was engaged to one briefly) and guys (currently in an exclusive relationship with one), and the combinations overlap. She doesn’t really fit any given category, and defines herself as “queer”. That’s just her. The younger one is decidedly female and happy with it. Also, she like girls about as well as guys. My two sons, on the other hand, are completely straight. All four of my kids understand the causes and outcomes of sexual orientation and are fine with it. We also have a gay couple (college guys) living in our household, so any questions that came up were quickly and easily answered.
Now. All that being said … what should Joyce do?
She should learn everything there is to know about sexual orientation. She should do the research, as we have, and if she is intellectually honest, she will come to the conclusion that there is nothing “wrong” with being gay, that she can’t “save” Ethan if he truly is gay, and that THAT IS OKAY. She needs to do some serious introspection and look at what she likes and doesn’t like, what she believes or distrusts, what is provable or un-provable about all of it, and come to an internally consistent worldview. A personal philosophy is crucial to being a completed individual, and the philosophy needs to be YOURS, not just a regurgitation of someone else’s platitudes.
Do I think she will manage all that in Freshman year? Hell, no. It took me until I was in my forties, and I worked at it. But she should get started. The longer she waits, the more world-shaking the changes will be. And she looks pretty shaken already.
Not talking about real people, talking about fictional characters and asserting that there is nothing wrong with bending a “straight” character’s sexuality in fanfic or w/e, and there will BE nothing wrong with it until we come far enough as a society that
a) straight becomes a REAL fictional sexuality rather than the default
b) other sexualities are recognized as being just as normal with no stigma attached
c) other sexualities are actually and reliably represented in the media
All of these are important things that haven’t happened yet and which are incredibly necessary to *have* happen before anyone can expect fandoms to stop wearing queer-colored glasses and writing “straight” characters as gay.
And straight is in quotes because, again, it’s the default. In this very web comic’s fandom, we’ve had people loudly insisting that Joyce is straight, but we have no evidence of that. She wants to marry a nice boy, she thinks being gay is a sin, and she had one on camera erotic dream about Ethan that was extremely confused as to what “sex” is.
And Joyce, though she has OBVIOUSLY never even considered attraction to girls a possibility and therefore has never even thought about her orientation, who thought being gay was a choice and since she hasn’t made it was impossible, is STILL in a world, ala David Wilkis, where non-straight sexualities exist and are talked about a lot.
And as worlds created by people go? Those two traits are super unusual.
So yeah. Still not going to bother taking “straight” character’s sexualities seriously. All Tony Stark’s interest in women proves is interest in women — it doesn’t, as you well know, exclude an interest in dudes. (And I would understand someone who thought his interest in women was over the top to the point of being a phony cover, too.)
None of this has anything to do with real people, except to note that real people can ALSO seem straight and even think they are straight only to discover otherwise later in life. My points were MUCH more about the validity of seeking out more representation in a world where you can reliably assume that far, far less than 5% of the characters in a book or TV show are going to be queer.
(And by the way, I don’t buy stats like those even a TINY bit. Sexuality is a spectrum, and 95% of people are absolutely not completely straight. Nooooo waaaaay. But it’s impossible to get reliable data on actual percentages when there’s so much stigma attached. And just promising anonymity isn’t enough when people can be in deep denial.)
I completely agree that no PERSON can change their sexual orientation. I disagree that Joyce is “safe” JUST on the basis that she’s never thought about it before, though. Because again, it’s not an either/or. A guy doesn’t have to be 100% into men and only men to call himself gay; for example, I know that I would never want to BE with a guy despite a 5-10% attraction to them, so I use the word “lesbian”. Maybe a more technically accurate term would be “gay-leaning homoromantic bisexual”. But that’s a mouthful and — right now — what you choose to call yourself is a big part of your identity.
I also think this question is more complicated for ladies because lady attraction is not something society helps us understand. Perfectly earnest books, by women, tell us not to worry if we don’t have orgasms during sex because some women don’t! (There is an interesting void of acknowledgment that maybe your partner sucks, or SHOULD be sucking, or even that you could help yourself out — it’s just treated as something wholly “wrong” with you, and unfixable except by luck.)
We try to study female arousal and come away with the conclusion that ALL women are bisexual because the women studied all responded physically in equal measure to heterosexual and homosexual stimuli (visual, it was porny), but another interpretation offered up is that women who get wet when threatened with rape have an evolutionary advantage (less tearing), so maybe that’s why we seem to get aroused by all potentially sexual situations.
My point: it’s very easy for a girl, straight or otherwise, not to know what her body wants.
I hate that this is true, by the way, because it feels very condescending. Plenty of women have learned what they want and enjoy sex and go after it. But that does not change that Joyces still roam the earth in huge, depressing numbers.
All valid points here, so no reason to add my own.
That sed, and without trying to sounds like an asshole I feel duty-bound to say to you, Concolor, that your oldest daughter sounds extremely hot (mostly due to myself also being about as manly as I am girly). *appreciative nod*
Silly playing around in forums aside, “lose” or “corrupt” her “morals”? What morals are these? The ones which say it’s a horrible icky sin to be gay/have pre-marital sex/believe in gender equality and anyone who does it is to go directly to hell?
I don’t think they’re necessarily saying that it’s a bad thing, just that it can be debilitating to a person that holds themselves to a certain standard to break those standards. It’s like swearing to never drink a single drop of alcohol because of all the bad things you’ve heard about it, but then going to a spring break party and having it everywhere. Yeah, you’re going to see a lot of moronic drunk people, but then you’re also going to see those that don’t drink a lot, and end up having a great time. It’s tempting to lose yourself, but it’s also incredibly frightening. So in the end I guess I’m saying that they don’t mean that Joyce’s corrupted version of her morals are wrong, just that it would break a few preconceived notions that she has about the gay/bisexual world and help her grow as a person.
That being said, WHOO CORRUPTED MORALS xD
We’re just joking, we’re not actually expecting Joyce to get it on with Sal, and it’s not like Joyce can hear us. Personally I’d consider it just plain bad writing if Joyce suddenly became lesbian.
Yeah, you don’t spontaneously become a lesbian unless you’re exposed to Rachel kicking ass.
what if it’s not sudden? What if it’s foreshadowed by all sorts of denial and sneaking glances and being uncomfortable with being surrounded by attractive females in states of undress in different ways than her strong personal nudity taboo would usually imply?
It’s mostly just joking around.
99% of the comments aren’t serious. We’re just having fun. We all know Joyce is straight.
Ya I know it’s not serious, I’ve probably went along with the joke at sometime myself, but it’s just making me think about things like this, you know. Sometimes, you just think about what it would be like if the jokes weren’t actually jokes. I don’t know, I’m stupid.
I’d be a little upset if Joyce actually wound up being gay without some serious character development since it’d be totally out of character for her.
Lesbian Joyce fanart is AOK though. <_<
Sexuality isn’t a character trait that someone can have or lose, so “out of character” and “character development” are the wrong words. Being suddenly gay AND COMFORTABLE WITH IT would be OOC, but noticing for the first time that she’s attracted to women? No. That happens in real life too.
This. I was straight for basically my entire life until I was in my mid 20’s and I started to realize I was bi. It wasn’t sudden, but it also wasn’t something that was “there all along”, either.
We don’t ‘know’ that Joyce is straight. We only know how she identifies. She probably is straight, though. Normally we’d have had some significant evidence to the contrary by now if she wasn’t.
Not really… It’s been a long time for _us_, but for the characters, it’s only been THREE WEEKS. For all we know, Joyce has repressed bisexual feelings due to the ideals forced onto her growing up, or at the very least, what she’s been through these past few weeks could easily have been enough to make her start feeling bi-curious (which is completely acceptable, no matter where she ultimately realizes she falls on the Kinsey Scale).
Also, sexuality is a very fluid thing.
That’s true, but I wasn’t referring to reality. I meant that we would have had some significant evidence to the contrary not because it would have existed in real life, but because it is something I would have expected from a storytelling perspective.
there a time and place for everything and it called “college”
plus I think lesbian rape is not as plausible as it is with the xy chromosome…..
Not denying that lesbian rape has happened but, why bring it up in this conversation?
I think his point is that Joyce is currently dealing with some rape attempt trauma and she might feel safer directing her romantic feelings at women right now. Which isn’t implausible, mind you, but “lesbian rape is not as plausible” is a really unwise choice of words, because it gives the impression that he doesn’t believe lesbian rape ever happens.
Think it just implies he thinks it’s less probable. See “not as plausible”.
To make a horrendously oversimplified comparison, I’d
say it’s nut-produced-testosterone versus
period-fueled-extreme-hornyness. Hmm… going to have to agree with james during most days of the month.
You do realize that lesbian rape is a thing that happens, right?
…are you trying to insinuate that Ryan has “turned” her? Because that’s all kinds of fucked up.
(And, actually, I don’t think it’s the first time it’s been said… urrrgh.)
I read the manga “Stray Little Devil” and could do nothing but want to two mains to go for each other, which they did.
I think it’s ok to push for something like that so long as there’s a solid, canon backing to the idea, and not some loose assumption people make up to poke fun at them (I.E, Bleach and UryuxIchigo, or something along those lines).
*the two mains
I hate it when I type a mistake and notice after I post.
I think an encounter with Sal right about now could be the straw that broke the fundie’s back.
I’m crossing my fingers for it to happen….
I looked at the Rachel tag and bow howdy have we not seen her often. Even here it’s just her befreckled shoulder.
Also a vote for Sierra is a vote for freedom. Vote Sierra today!
Everybody should vote Roz. She’s a brilliant character for someone that we hardly ever see. The last time was a year ago (week or so in-universe) after the party. And she offered her help to Joyce when she saw that something bad had happened, even when she didn’t know what it was. That’s the kind of character I want to see more of!
I considered voted Roz (she seems pretty mature and confident for her age, and I’d like to see that in interaction with the others), but I actually voted Sarah. I am weak. (Of course, she may just snake out of conversations like she usually does…)
I am mystified by the fact that Mary is listed as having one percent of votes with 13, but Raidah has two percent of votes with 12.
Mary is the one percent! (Contractually obligated sort of-joke…)
I support Sierra voting. Look at this cutie!!!
I’m going to vote Mary, because I can’t remember who she is, so we should see more of her.
She’s the bible girl that makes joyce feel bad for bringing her friends to church. I wouldn’t mind not seeing her for a while.
Oh… well I can’t take that vote back now. I really need a break from religious debates.
But religious debates are FUN!
Did I mention I’m a bit of a masochist?
Crazy adorable!!
I would have gladly voted Sierra if Dina wasn’t an option.
To be fair, her befreckled shoulder had absolutely no relevance here unless freckles somehow indicate homosexuality (although to Joyce, they might – who knows what goes on in her head?), so she’s making an appearance for no real reason.
The reason is that she’s displaying a huge amount of sexy skin !
Which is making Joyce really inconfortable right now.
Vote Mary! Because… I dunno, she’s got a bit of depth there and she makes a decent hate sink.
Joyce you’ve discovered the liberal media plot. A college’s only true purpose is to systematically covert young impressionable people into homosexuals. Run while you still can!
Maybe she’s confusing her desire to have a three way with her gay boyfriend and his roommate as homosexual desire (cause you know, technically it is)
That’s bisexual!
Take it from a girl who likes girls, Joyce. (And also guys, but not quite as much.) It’s like with peanuts. Once you’ve ogled that first peanut, you can’t stop. You wanna ogle another peanut. And another. And another…
I insist you explain your metaphor. I am perplexed.
This look into Alice Macher’s kinks was brought to you by Planter’s.
Hmmm…I don’t like peanuts that much…unless you mean the comics. I could ogle the shit out of some Peanut’s comics.
Peppermint Patty is relevant to this discussion.
Are the peanuts honey roasted? Because this only makes sense to me under those circumstances.
Honey does work very well with this metaphor.
And don’t get me started on chocolate-coated peanuts.
what about candied almonds
OOH I LOVE CHOCOLATE COVERED ALMONDS!
nah I’m talking about the orgasmic cinnamon sugar glazed ones you can only find at renaissance festivals
Never had them, but they sound good, too. Until I can actually try some though, I’ll just stuff my mouth with the chocolated ones.
Metaphor for experimentation turns into thread about peanuts.
I love the commenters on here.
I am very confused right now about these metaphors. Also craving me some lesbians, I mean peanuts.
…any fair here in Michigan, or the coffee shop I used to frequent.
Those little candied almond treasures send me into transports of bliss. And screw renfaires. I make ’em myself.
I’m guessing circus peanuts would be a blow-up doll. Entirely fake, full of air, and only sort of looks like the real thing.
You can’t make yourself like any sex. Either you’re attracted, or you’re not.
Eh… there’s also the option to only be attracted later on, after you get to know them better (and find sexy common interests / character traits).
The more you try not to think about it, the more you think about it!
JOYCE, YOU’VE ALREADY GONE PAST THE POINT OF NO RETURN, AND THAT IS BILLIE
This latest storyline is great.
Also, it looks like I voted for a (probable) poll winner this time around. Nice.
Actually, I can relate to how Joyce is feeling right now. I used to be really confused back in high school whenever I would starting thinking about guys in a certain way when I CLEARLY liked girls. I didn’t want to be gay, and I thought I COULDN’T be gay because of said attraction to women.
Now I’m here, a year removed from college and I’m a happily recognized bi…even if I haven’t had my own chance to experiment yet.
You have no choice, Joyce. You’ve had those thoughts. You’re born gay. Stop denying it.
Has Joyce ever blushed this hard for Ethan? Or Joe?
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/diddlin/
Woo! Even harder!
As much as Joyce likes tacos, she still hankers for some sausage.
Youre comment has made Butt-taco really conflicting to me now.
and that is the way it should be… 😀
“But I don’t want to go among gay people,” Joyce remarked.
“Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Billie: “we’re all gay here. I’m gay. You’re gay.”
“How do you know I’m gay?” said Joyce.
“You must be,” said the Billie, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”
GENIUS.
I see what you did there. And I approve.
You’re going to have to drop your Gender Studies class, then, Joyce.
why she’s about to finally meet it’s prerequisiste
Or get some extra credit.
Wait until she finds out that Leslie is also gay.
Wait….that’s where they’re headed, isn’t it?
No… math, I think. Billie’s not in Gender Studies, nor is Mike. And I think Mike’s banned from Leslie’s classroom now.
People who ship Joyce with another girl must be vomiting with joy at the moment.
I wouldn’t say vomiting. It’s more like when mother birds regurgitate food to feed their precious little baby birds. I’m regurgitating my joy onto all of you!
Now I have this image of a bird vomiting a rainbow in it’s chick’s mouth. Cute & gross at the same time.
From here and through the following two strips we see early hints at Joyce’s possible lesbian leanings.
Also, run, Billie. It’s happening again.
…or it’s just hero worship for a) a person who stood up to a perceived bully (whether or not she was a bully is beside the point) and b) for someone who is simply really cool by Joyce’s standards. You COULD interpret that as early lesbian leanings, but it’s no more plausible than the possibility that she just thinks of those two as being cool.
Honestly, people. I don’t mind shipping. I don’t even mind homosexual shipping, even though I’m morally opposed to the homosexual part, because it’s really not worth getting worked up over given that no one cares about my opinion on the subject anyway, except for those who already agree with me. But COME ON, people, if you’re gonna ship, ship intelligently! Signs of admiration doesn’t immediately translate to sexual attraction; in other words, sometimes a case of hero worship is just that.
“Why can’t a man and a woman just be friends!”
Seriously though, if you’re gonna complain about queer shipping you’d better complain about straight shipping too, and all the other ways in which media tells us a heterosexual friendship is impossible.
Face it. We’re just an over sexualized/romanticized culture, we see and expect *everyone* to make out.
Ignoring your “moral” opposition to queer, but of course I did notice it.
I was joking.
That said, no-one ships ‘intelligently’, because there’s no universal optimal outcome for a shipper. If you’re going to invest emotion into the relationships of fictional characters, you can pick the one you’d most like to see, and that’s as valid as picking the one most likely to occur. It doesn’t really make any difference.
I pick the one thats the most horrifying violation of all thats good and holy
and then willis has the two of them actually get married in shortpacked and im like no what do i do with my saturday
I wasn’t talking to you, bb.
Oops, wish I could delete that.
Give in, Joyce…give in to the boobalicious…
Comics on saturday wont eff up your pacing will it? Cause, as much as I hate it, I also love those god-awfully-evil cliffhangers you tend to throw at fridays and I know you do these like 2-4 week ahead of time.
I didn’t know that there was any reader who enjoyed cliffhangers. I thought they were purely for the author’s enjoyment.
Well, they spark discussion! ‘Course, the discussion is generally about how to best flambé David Willis, but no matter.
Some of them I like, such as when we get new information revealed or plot twists or unexpected turns in a character’s development. They can cause a lot of debate, which is sometimes interesting!
I, too am amazed that David can crank out quality story on two web comics 8 times+ a week, when most other artists can only handle half that, I know I couldn’t.
Just hope we aren’t cutting open the golden goose that is David Willis by asking him for this
No, no we don’t that just bigoted left wing propaganda.
Surly, you don’t think the Bible thumpers represent all of us republicans.
Just as we don’t think the extreme socialist radicals don’t represent you.
( despite who you elect ;p)
I kind of hate you on sight.
It’s because he called you surly, isn’t it?
Also, @james, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Was it meant to be a reply to an earlier comment?
Oh, I see. A response to hovertext.
Hahahaha Obama as an “extreme socialist radical”
Hahahahahahaha “socialist is totally as insulting as Bible thumper”
Pure comedy <3
well unit the until the ultimate atheist turns out to be God. It will have to do. :3
Everyone knows Obama is a miltant Muslim atheist radical socialist tool of the Wall Street bankers. And if you rearrange the letters in his name you get A boma, which is one letter away from A bomb, which is proof that he’s also an evil robot sent from the future with a small nuclear device in his chest (where his heart would be if he were a Christian) to blow up the White House, because he’s a terrorist — the fist bump with Michelle (who must also be a robot — a sexy, sexy robot designed to corrupt our morals and fill our daughters with chocolate lesbian Muslim atheist Keynesian sex fantasies) proves it.
It is always Republicans that publically rail against homosexuality, and then get caught trying to use semaphore to pick up dudes in truckstop bathrooms or whatever. It happens so much that the funny has worn off it.
Democrats don’t do this, because for Democrats, it’s okay to just be gay.
and to own slaves
Republicans love to trot out the slavery thing, since they don’t have any honest arguments to make. Yes, 150 years ago the Democratic Party was overtly racist. It was also militantly anti-tax, anti-big (central) government (particularly in terms of the feds spending money on infrastructure and education), pro-states’ rights, and based primarily in the south. Who does that sound like today?
What Republicans are trying to flush down Orwell’s memory hole is what political scientists and historians call “a realignment.” New issues become important, and people jump parties based on the new priorities. There have been a whole series of these (it usually happens every 30-40 years in the US), and the last big one turned the really racist southern Democrats (and some racist northern ones too) into Republicans. Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms… the list goes on and on.
Of course not all Republicans today are racist, and not all Democrats are free of that character flaw. But when someone tries to tar the Democratic party with accusations of racism because slavery in the 1850s or segregation in the 1950s, he’s either trying to con you or he’s been taken in by a GOP con artist himself and is uncritically parroting the scam.
And before anyone jumps on it, I’m well aware that not all the really racist Democrats jumped parties — some died while still trying to keep the Dixiecrat machines together, some were forced into retirement, and some publicly recanted and apologized for their racism (Robert Byrd of West Virginia, for instance).
(accidentally put this in the wrong place and my apology got eaten)
The Republican party used to be the “liberal party”. Do you really think they are now?
No, it isn’t. And if that’s “bigotry” that would make everyone a bigot.
Most of the science denial, racism, zealotry, and paranoid nonsense comes from the Republican party. Democrats can be stupid too, but not as often and usually not to the same degree. The Obama conspiracies and video footage is more than enough evidence.
I want to see more of marcie, but it is not one of the choices!
I have only two conclusions I can make from the lack of Marcie in the poll, ONE, Willis is alredy planning to have her show up a lot more or TWO, she is doomed to be just an occassional charcter and Willis absolutely does not want her staus to change.
THREE, Marcie and Dina are the same person dressing differently. Any perceived differences in behavior are an elaborate act done as part of a sociological study of the local non-reptilian population.
Prove me wrong.
I’d rather assume that as the rate of Sal increases, so too does the rate of Marcie, likely in a linear fashion. Same with Danny/Amazi-girl. and Jacob/Ethan.
Raising the rate of Sal would also presumably raise the rate of Jason and Billie, and vice versa, though likely to a lesser degree.
*Darth Vader voice* It is your destiny, Joyce… Embrace it!
Oh, so that’s Grace! Neat — I’ve only ever seen her in that Gravatar, so it looks weird to see her smiling.
I wonder if the problem here is that Joyce doesn’t want to be gay, or if she just doesn’t want any sexual urges at all. (She may envy Dina down along the line — not only does Dorothy probably agree with Dina’s beliefs more, she also seems to be asexual and doesn’t have to worry about the physical stuff that worries Joyce. Note of course that we don’t know if she is yet, so this may be entirely wrong.)
She’s already established pretty firmly she thinks premarital hanky-panky is a sin, but gay premarital hanky-panky is probably a sin double-dip, I suppose.
I wonder if this is Willis trolling. I remember him writing about an “outrage” when original Joyce participated in premarital hanky-panky.
Quick! Everyone start writing comment thread erotica!
“And in a display of carnal abandon, Joyce unbuttoned a single button…”
“I know you want to do all sorts of naughty things to me,” she said in a breathy voice. “Hold my hand… kiss me on the cheek… but I’m just not that kind of girl.
“Yet.”
Billie sighed, a ‘Calm down, Joyce’ at the tip of her tongue; that is, until she noticed Joyce’s gently unbuttoned shirt, freed from the brunette’s constrictive sweater vests. Billie drew back and bit on her lower lip, a nervous reaction she had adapted only once before when Ruth hung over her. Her breathing quickened and she took a deep breath, cleverly masked as a sigh.
“Cut it out Joyce, we’re going to be late for class.” As she turned around to walk away she couldn’t help but share a long gaze at the room titled ‘Resident Assistant.”
The joy drained from Joyce’s face as she saw the direction of Billie’s gaze.
“Her again!” she shouted, causing curious heads to pop out of doorways up and down the hall. “Always her! I can see it in your face, Billie! You’re imagining her femurs wrapped around your mandibles.
Well, I have femurs too, and I want to use them. I want to LIVE, Billie! For the first time, I want to LIVE!!”
And before anyone jumps on it, I’m well aware that not all the really racist Democrats jumped parties — some died while still trying to keep the Dixiecrat machines together, some were forced into retirement, and some publicly recanted and apologized for their racism (Robert Byrd of West Virginia, for instance).
((Get’s hot and bothered at the saucyness of it all.))
give in to the dark side Joyce
Well that’s what you get for wanting to be smart. All the smart women are lesbians.
…please tell me you’re joking. You’ve got to be joking. Lesbianism and cleverness have nothing to do with each other, so you HAVE to be joking… right?
Nobody’s perfect.
I want more cuddly stuffs like that.
Make more for Dr. Z!
Make more!
I am 100% joking. 🙂
Actually, they are linked.
OOOOOEEEE….. !!!!
If them thar be mi only choices… well, juz giit me a shoitgun and a purty redneck wifey who ain’t done but 4 of her 7 brothers and two uncles, but leave them RETARD Kidz behind (the bilygoats two!!), and marry me and and billiejo jean suziQ & we’ll PURfect that thar home aborshun, and sell ‘em from our general store in lower Appalachee, an I’ll be a burnin’ that DIE-ploma that say PPFFFUD or PHUD or Ph.D. or whatevar! Ever-one can do what dey wants and me can TU!! I ain’t eetin no weenars! None in my buttsecks neither now!
Most smart people are heterosexual, just like most people are heterosexual. Similarly, most people, therefore most homosexual people, aren’t particularly intelligent.
The funny thing is that while that statement is generally true, for whatever reason there are several statistically significant correlations like that which have been noticed. I’ve seen a couple studies I remember linking left handedness to scoring well on intelligence tests for example.
Statistics can be used to lie to people and intelligence tests are very flawed. They can’t take everything into account and are culturally biased. The idea of sexuality or main hand affecting “intelligence”…is nothing more than bullshit.
So… you area dumb lesbian? Come on… help us out here!
Noo, not Joyce! D: I don’t want her to become a Republican politician!!
Her soul belongs to us now!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAevMXAke98
I must admit I am confused by your logic. Big name Republicans like former Vice President Dick Cheney are ‘pro-gay’ (for lack of a better word. The party’s not a hate group). It’s not exactly a defining feature of party members.
So your proof that Republicans aren’t anti-gay is one Republican with an inconveniently gay daughter who refused to talk about gay marriage or gay rights during his eight years as Vice President because being anti-gay was an important Republican platform and a wedge issue that inspired their base to vote.
you’re not good at arguing this
Meh. It’s the weekend. I’d rather read comics then argue with you. Maybe latter in the week.
Have a nice day!
I just think it’s weird that despite all these “big name Republicans” who so totally don’t have anything against gay people, “protecting traditional marriage” clauses somehow keep getting inserted into each election year’s list of Republican Party platforms. (2000) (2004) (2008) (2012) It’s also kind of weird how the section on Protecting Traditional Marriage From The Gays keeps getting bigger and more elaborate over the years.
These big name Republicans are pretty impotent, aren’t they.
Welp, still think she’s straight, but I’m far less convinced than I was yesterday…
(Now watch as the first panel of tomorrow’s strip is her waking up next to Sierra.)
Grabbing a hand doesn’t indicate gayness, it indicates fear. Her prolonged stare at Billie’s breasts yesterday was far more damning.
But here shes blushing around nude women. That possibly indicate some feeling flourishing.
Or she’s just not comfortable with nudity, which wouldn’t be surprising.
I think Joyce’s issue here is not that she’s actually significantly bi; it’s that because of her sheltered and repressive upbringing, she doesn’t have the experience or the self-awareness to distinguish between “that girl has caused me to think about sex” and “I want to have sex with that girl”. It all gets filed in the big box labeled “S-word, do not open before marriage”, and she’s afraid to sort through it to try to figure out what’s actually in there.
And this is compounded by the fact that she’s in an emotional place where she needs comfort and has been cut off from her usual support network, and she doesn’t trust guys right now because of the Joe and Ryan incidents, and she’s been trained to associate the human contact she craves with sex and sin. So, “I really want my friend to cuddle me and keep me safe” becomes “omg, I think I’m gay, and I don’t want to be gay because gay people go to Hell, even if they’re really nice gay people”.
And the undeniable fact that Billie has the best boobs probably doesn’t help her confusion.
(I now return you to your regularly scheduled LesYay.)
(Actually, apparently I return you to People Being Dicks To Amber. Well, can’t win ’em all.)
Silly Joyce, you have to be sexually active in the first place before you can play around with being a “lesbian until graduation”.
It’s ok Joyce, there are some types who think that sex “doesn’t count” because there is no penetration … so that means some licky licky is ok
Its still premarital licky licky.
and here I read .. premature … I should wear my glasses >_<
This thing with Joyce is rapidly moving beyond “cute lack of understanding” into “man this girl is really kind of ignorant and hateful.”
I hope she has an opportunity to grow up a little like she did in the Walkyverse.
Hmmm, lose an evolution debate, get a painful flu shot, have Sarah laugh at you, can’t reach your best friend, have Sarah tell you you are going to lose Dorothy as a friend, then have a full on, very confusing gay panic attack….and it’s probably not even lunch time yet.
Joyce isn’t my favorite character, but I wouldn’t wish her day on anyone. Well, maybe Mike. Cause he wouldn’t care!
Lesbians!
Because who would wanna fuck a dude?
I know! Right?
God, if lesbianism is a sickness, let’s infect everyone!
BEST.
PLAGUE.
EVER.
(Though it will end all human life, it will be a sexy ending I think we can all live with.)
(It so won’t end all human life even a little bit!)
(If everyone is a lesbian, and thus female, then there is no following generation. But it’d be worth it.)
I would point you to Vandread, an anime with a planet of only women that has several generations through the combination of genetics, your Ohma and your Fahma both contributing to your own genetic diversity…
You are a gentleman & a scholar, good sir.
I sadly don’t think we’re there yet, so if the lesbian plague broke out now, it’d be the end of us, but your suggested viewing has given me hope that humanity can & will evolve into an uber race of lesbian superwomen.
Still, there’d be something missing, ya’ know?
MY PENIS.
Now if all those females would be futa girls (the dual vagoo&dick variety), then I’d endorse that plague GLADLY.
….. so, Ethan converted Joyce? O_o!?
Is that what we’re supposed to take from all this? xD
Huh. You’re right. He did make her bi.
Fascinating.
ok, so is this just a girl thing? I’m a guy and I was in college for 5 years (transfer muddied my credits) and was never tempted to experiment in such a way. Or are there plenty of guys who also do this kind of thing and it just didn’t come up with me?
I think it’s just a “repressed Christian fundie panics at the thought that being tempted into gayness might be inevitable” thing.
After scrolling through this thread I just want to point out these comments are not a place conducive to in depth discussions.
I hate to have to say this, but if there’s a comments section on the internet that really is I’d like to be made aware of it.
I disagree with what you’re trying to say, but not with what you actually did say.
I see plenty of interesting, insightful and silly debate going on. Not really conducive, sure, but I’d say we’re making due quite well.
Everyone in college isn’t gay.
That’s true, there’s still a handful of virgins.
That’s a non-sequitur. Not all “straight” people abstain from sex and plenty of gay people are chaste.
that’s true, it’s not gay if the balls don’t touch.
right?
Riiight.
Thank you for more Mandy.
More Mandy, please?
…Look like they Someone had make-up [something] once the lover spat was solved~