It’s my birthday! The 15%-off OHCRAP coupon code will remain active in the store until midnight PST tonight! And a huge pile of Amazi-Girl Strikes just got delivered, so…
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It’s my birthday! The 15%-off OHCRAP coupon code will remain active in the store until midnight PST tonight! And a huge pile of Amazi-Girl Strikes just got delivered, so…
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UM
….
ALL I CAN SAY IS
/THANK GOD/ THIS DIDN’T GO UP ON A WEEKEND
On a different note:
DAMN YOU WILLIS!
WHAT SHE SAID
I swear, we need to write a script that will automatically post this at 12:00:01 on Fridays, just to make sure we head up weekend cliffhangers.
I don’t know if we should be happy about this…
David may switch to another story tomorrow and continue with this one on next week.
YOU CRAZY PERSON DON’T GIVE HIM IDEAS!
Too late, the damage is already done.
HA… HAHA
MUAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHA
*sends ninja gang to silence the blasphemer*
the deed has been done, shogun… *looks at targets picture again* …err, oops, wrong guy… D:
Actually, this is the perfect spot to move to a different storyline. There’s not much else to say, anyway.
It’s okay, he draws this stuff in advance. If he switches, he’d already decided to do that.
No, because switching to another storyline only entails changing what order he runs his already-drawn comics in.
He has them pre-set to go live on 12:01 everyday, so the order has already been chosen when he set that up.
And yet might still be changed.
Ohhhhh SHIT this is going to end badly
The FEELS.
Your gravatar gives a good impression of where these feels do reside – and it’s mildly disturbing.
Not sure if happy or crippling sorrow
It’s really hard to understand if you haven’t lived all your life being the weird one trying to control something or trying to be understood by your friends. It’s not about sexuality at this point, for either of them. It’s a psychological understanding of being different. Even if part of this is just Joyce’s fear of sex, part of this is understanding being sexually different than everyone around you, whether because of orientation or beliefs, and having to damage-control that.
This is also a scenario really similar to something my husband and I experienced. We took this scenario in a direction I know Willis isn’t going to take this comic, but the moment of understanding is heartwrenchingly golden.
This really spoke to me because of that.
You’re a great artist, Willis. I disagree with you on so much, but you understand the people you disagree with in some really, really beautiful ways. You are able to break out of some stereotypes at least enough of the time to look at the beautiful tragedy of the human condition–to explore the battle against conformity from all sides–and I really, really appreciate that.
Thank-you.
I’d been fine with it (more than fine! I’d’ve been exstatic) if she gave him a hug instead of a kiss. Now it just seems Joyce hasn’t learned anything. Again.
Don’t jump to conclusions here. We can’t say with total certainty where she’s going with this. This may not be a romantic or sexual kiss.
A non-romantic kiss generally wouldn’t be on the lips.
At least not with tongue.
Because friends and family can and do sometimes kiss each other on the lips all the time. Depending on how close and comfortable they are anyway.
Though we can basically say that kiss there is definitely with tongue.
This isn’t good.
Do you mean because they’re kissing, or because she’s probably going to be his beard as a way for them both to abstain from pants-things while remaining ‘normal’ as far as other people can tell?
Because the second scenario, while not exactly the best, most honest option, isn’t all that terrible. It’d be a mutual understanding they reach, not one using the other.
It doesn’t seem all that healthy. If both have a low sex drive or are seriously dedicated to celibacy, a platonic, quasi-romantic friendship might work out, but if either of them do develop an interest in acting on sexual desires, then it’s pretty much doomed. And even if not, there’s a good chance of a lot of repression-based issues down the road.
Thats what makes it all the more perfect. Its just ripe for the exact sort of thing that makes it interesting in a webcomic.
You have a horrible, twisted mind, and I thank you for that.
I disagree. This is delicious, delicious drama.
I can’t wait to see how this sweetens, or explodes.
<3
Well that’s not what I expected to happen.
Surprise Tonguing.
A musicians worst nightmare.
…what kind of musicians are we talking about here?
Cellists. Any cello music that calls for tonguing is both surprising and potentially nightmarish.
Where would you like me to send the internet you just won?
Ditto.
^ what this person said.
I did, in fact, hear that in the Doctor’s voice.
Thank You.
and by Doctor, you meant the 4th Doctor right?
The only true doctor.
I only vaguely remember the 2nd Doctor and grew up with the 3rd and 4th Doctors.
I actually have tears from laughing at this. Bra-VO.
I don’t know, I got pretty good at double-tonguing in band class, if you know what I mean. (This is what I mean (SFW))
Um, Joyce? We need to talk….
I don’t think you quite grasp the concept of “gay”.
It means happy, right?
Yes, this is why most of us are gay at least once in our lives.
“I can think him,” is what she’s thinking. That, or she loves the fact that he’s self-loathing. Either way, it’s not going to end well.
“‘I can think him'”
…I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here.
Appropiate gravatar is appropiate
Pretty sure that was supposed to say “change.” Or “fix.” Or something else equally unhealthy for Joyce.
“You hate yourself? No way, I hate myself too! We have so much in common!”
D=
OHCRAP is correct
… Well, good thing she’s taking it well at least.
She hasn’t doused him in holy water expecting him to burst into flames yet, so this is progress.
That went well
As much as I enjoy the sentiment, I’d really like for tommorows comic to just be Ethan spitting.
I wish I had been drinking something, so I could appropriately squirt it out of my nose.
No squirting in the comments, please.
Would you like your internets delivered American express or UPS?
What in the.
You know, I forgot to ask this before, but your avatar is Hisao from KS, right? (OT yes, but I MUST KNOW)
It is sad that I can not only confirm that it is, in fact, Hisao, but identify that it is from Rin’s path.
No! Rin is MY waifu!!!
If KS is Katawa Shoujo, then yes, you got it in one.
Yay! 😀 I do so adore that game~<3
It’s like watching two trains, rushing at one another, and all you can do is scream…
Or laugh madly like Gomez Adams.
Actually, I think it’s more like two trains rushing past each other, relieved there’s no chance of highly symbolic collision.
I love your words! They GET each other. Joyce is a weirdo to her friends. He’s a weirdo to his, even those who supposedly accept and understand his attraction. They both understand what it’s like to be completely different, completely unhappy with it, and completely unable to change it. Pants-wise and otherwise. No one gets them, not even their best friends. And they get that about each other.
As an evangelical Christian girl with same sex attraction, this is something I FEEL ALL THE TIME.
ALSO WILLIS TOTALLY PUNKED EVERYONE WHO SAW A STEREOTYPICAL ENDING TO THIS
This is why I read. Surprises! More surprises coming or not? I dunno. But this moment of mutal understanding was worth everything terrible that may or may not happen later.
I would exactly say this is an ending. It’s only Wednesday, after all. This whole storyline will develop for quite some time, I’m sure.
PetrePan has the right of it, it seems to me. (Like she needs me to say whether or not she’s right) This also underscores something… well, real.
People talk about ‘beards’ — the opposite sex significant others of gay people who are used to project heteronormative relationships — generally in a negative fashion. However, there are as many types of relationships as there are people to have them. There have been plenty of examples of successful, loving relationships between people who lack sexual attraction due to orientation. Some of those have even been marriages.
Joyce is terrified of her own sexuality — all the more so because of her assault. Ethan represents everything she wants out of a relationship minus the sexuality she doesn’t want to confront. He also represents a boyfriend who won’t pressure her into sex or doing anything her family or the church wouldn’t approve of. When she says he’s perfect, she means it.
Ethan is sick of being defined by his sexual orientation. Joyce does indeed represent a beard — that’s explicitly how he was using her. That she’s accepting of who he is and clearly happy to go along with what he wants is, in one sense, the best possible resolution. She’s a heteronormative girlfriend who, once again, won’t pressure him for sex or sexual situations.
Now, how Ethan reacts to this, we have yet to see. And whether or not the two of them form a true emotional connection (as opposed to one based on sexual attraction) is in no way certain. However… yeah. This pings real. And it’s a great step along the way.
Ditto, man. Ditto.
“You’re Perfect… now I can slowly seduce Dotty while we can pose as each other’s beards… BWHAHAHAHAHA!”
That’s stupid. Clearly she’s doing this to make Sal’s bike jealous.
She and Dorothy shall make out on the bike as they speed past the others. Sal will be all ‘…wait, that looks like my bike’ and Joe will give them a double thumbs up.
JoyceXDorothyXBike OTT?
Joyce.
Do you understand what the word gay means? Well, I mean the modern usage. I don’t think that kissing him will break him of the habit of liking man-butts.
Actually I’m pretty sure it can, I know because I read that it could in Joyce’s preconceived notion’s box
Well, if it’s in The Box I guess it’s not really possible to argue it. Still, she’d have to be at LEAST 3 levels hotter to raise the percentage chance of the Sexual Preference Shifting Kiss.
Mike could teach her.
She needs to approach Sal level hotness.
Sadly, she’ll still have one box that’ll be empty so long as Ethan is “dating” her.
A+
+1
(spit-take)
Gay means no risk of Premarital Hanky Panky of cause.
That has not been my experience.
Let me rephrase that, no Premarital Hanky Panky from Ethan to Joyce.
.. oh lord, she’s going to try to ‘fix’ him.
Maybe later, but probably not soon. Joyce wants him to not be interested in sex right now.
She will try to fix him but the vet will refuse.
God, she totally is.
Awww…
Of course, this cannot end well.
*sigh* Just realized the irony of the word “joy” in Joyce’s name.
Maybe the “ce” is some kind of negator? It would explain WinCE.
No. In that case, the Win part and the CE part is supposed to be run together into one word . . . a word describing what you do whenever you have to use the software.
That is so babies…
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. OH MY GOSH JOYCE THIS SO WILL NOT DO!
This is a situation up with which I will not put!!!
I love your diviant perfect English.
But really, this is so much darker than anything else I’ve read outside Flowers in the Attic.
Now in .gif form
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4277627/daniel-bryan-no-o.gif
Oh god. Is she actually going to be understanding about this?
…doubtful…?
define “understanding”.
hhhhnnnnnnnggggggggggg
That’s not funny, I have a friend who died of-HHHHHNNNNNGGGGG
Guys I don’t understand, what is that suppo-HHNNNNNNNNGGG
…….so, should we start taking bets on how many characters are going to saya variation of this before the end of day?
That having been said, I really hope that’s a platonic kiss she’s giving him. I really hope so because ‘you are perfect’ is a beatuful moment and I really want it to be genuine.
I don’t know much about kissing (just ask my ex-girlfriend), but that’s sure not how I kiss my sister. If I had a sister.
Well, Ethan’s not her sister, he’s her now ex-boyfriend she minutes ago shared her first kiss with.
…huh.
Joyce, perfectly platonic and innocent friend-kisses don’t happen on the lips. You are so silly sometimes.
“They don’t, but Dorothy and I….”
Uh oh.
What.
Amber, come back and talk some sense into these people… heck. Dorothy or even Sarah could do it too.
Mike should be the one to do this. He’s the only person who gets the job done.
Aww?
More like aww shit.
I’m really hoping Joyce doesn’t take this as “please take me to a pray-away-the-gay camp”.
And I hope Joyce doesn’t take this as “please-gay-away-the-pray” session.
You mean she’s hoping that he will infect her with gayness so that she has a reason to re-evaluate her belief system?
This does indeed seem like something that Willis would use as one hell of a twist.
Joyce… How can I put this…
River, Egypt, not just a.
You’re welcome.
You’re being subtle. To Joyce. That just won’t work.
It is very true that River Egypt is not just a Nile in the… What was I saying?
I do hope she knows what’s doing? She seemed to know what gay meant, so I’m hoping she is showing her really good side and letting Ethan know she is his friend.
Happy Birthday David Willis.
his friend…with benefits. Very undesirable benefits.
It’s more like punishments, really. Or maybe terms and conditions. Except he didn’t sign on the dotted line.
Yet.
Maybe he’ll get lucky and she’ll let him use an oral contract instead.
While a romantic nonsexual relationship between improperly orienated couples (as in the couples orientation does not allow each of them to fit the others idea of sexual attraction not that their orientation is by themselves improper) is actually viable (it works in the same way a aesexual can still have romantic relationships) this still has a possiblity of failure due to joyce actually lusting after him. However despite this i think this relationship wont be that damaging to either menbers of the party, though it will be ended on reasonable terms
of course there’s also the fact that Ethan is actively suppressing his homosexuality with the belief that it’ll only bring him problems, which will likely cause him a lot of awful self esteem problems even outside the context of their relationship.
Generally I think “asexual” and “aromantic” are the accepted terms. You can be one or both, and a romantic asexual is very much interested in having a relationship, and might be interested in getting married, but would just never want to have sex.
It’s not that hard a concept, and I’ve known asexuals who also had a kind of secondary orientation: in other words, you can be a romantic asexual lesbian.
There is no such thing as an ‘asexual human being’. It is biologically impossible.
I believe Nexev is referring to people who don’t feel sexual attraction to anybody of any gender. Not, like, they reproduce aesexually or something.
darn! looks like my sexuality has been fake all along. >:/
Same here! Curses. I thought I had finally figured it out too >:C
i would find some place to hide right now
Potentially ironic depending on both your view of Dina AND the word “ironic”.
So much lol
Please enlighten me as to how it is impossible. Cite non-wikipedia or WebMD sources.
What’s wrong with wikipedia as a source for Asexuality?
Wikipedia is useful tool in many situations. Looking up the generally accepted scientific opinion on a topic is a perfectly valid way to use it. In fact, you will almost always get a less biased answer than by looking at individual studies or journal articles.
He means human beings that reproduce asexually such as some microorganisms do is a biological impossibility, not asexuality as a sexual orientation.
At least I hope he means that.
Varys disagrees.
Also a friend of mine who holds no desire for sexual relations whatsoever.
Interesting. I have personally known two self-identified asexuals, one of whom was a very close friend in college, so please do explain why a sex drive and sexual attraction to one or both genders is biologically required for humans.
Also, which kinds of asexuality are you ruling out? I ask because it’s kind of a spectrum.
i want to state for the record im surprised the point of contention is whether aesexual preference is a thing. I assumed that my statement on how their relationship is romantically viable (if not sexually) would be a much more controversial statement.
Either way to Wooskie i believe Ethans lack of confidence is actually one of the reasons this relationship can be benefical since despite his sexuality and Joyces extremly religous bent she has stated that the pillar she put him on didn’t break, even calling him perfect.
It’s like kamina, he doesn’t believe in himself but she believes in him. Also given she has accepted him despite his sexuallity (given her religous beliefs implying that she would heavily care about such a thing) can indicate that Joyce actually will define him by his other traits before his sexuallity which is what Ethan wants.
That point isn’t actually being contended. Someone thought you meant ‘asexual reproduction’ which *is* biologically impossible in humans. Everyone else got upset and made a counter argument to a point that wasn’t being made.
Not really. Artificial insemination is asexual reproduction, as long as you aren’t going by a single-called organism definition.
My biology is rusty, but I believe all genetic material has to come from a single parent. So cloning is asexual reproduction, but in-vitro would not be.
Again, “as long as you aren’t going by a single-celled organism definition”.
I mean, REPRODUCING WITHOUT HAVING SEX. And besides, what Uniqueantique said was not at all as clear-cut as you are making it out to be. “Reproduction” isn’t mentioned anywhere in their comments.
I guess asexual does basically mean ‘without sex’. But I do not think asexual reproduction is used to refer to sexless reproduction.
Also, when someone says ‘asexual’ and ‘biologically’ in the same sentence I assume they are referring to the definition of asexual that is used in the phrase ‘asexual reproduction’. Here is a definition of asexual sans the word reproduction:
2 a : involving or reproducing by reproductive processes (as cell division, spore formation, fission, or budding) that do not involve the union of individuals or gametes b : produced by asexual reproduction
Humans do not reproduce that way. There is also another definition:
1 : lacking sex or functional sex organs
It could be arguable that humans cannot be entirely without sex (sex meaning sexual characteristics), although they can certainly lack functional sex organs.
I am totally aware of the other meanings of asexual, which is why I explicitly excluded them — twice — from my sentence. XD
The only definition I omitted is the one currently applicable to the comic:
3 : devoid of sexuality
“Reproducing without having sex” isn’t one of them. You can exclude all definitions of a word and then use it.
I sure can. The important thing is that my meaning be clear, which it was, since I said “Artificial insemination is a form of asexual reproduction, as long as you aren’t going by a single-celler organism definition.”
I’m not redifining anything here. Not petitioning the dictionary to expand. Literally doing nothing but observing that it is fully possible to have a baby “asexually”, where asexual means “without sex”.
I would think my deliberate unconventional use of terms was clear, but since you seem kind of hellbent on defending Uniqueantique’s completely indefensible statement of: “There is no such thing as an ‘asexual human being’. It is biologically impossible.” I would remind you again that they never said anything remotely like “biologically impossible to reproduce asexually”. They said asexual people don’t exist.
See, unlike me, I don’t think THEY subscribe to your dictionary at all.
Guys, she just met a man who isn’t going to try and sleep with her (her own lustful thoughts aside, which we saw in her dreams). I think happy with that. For now! {dundundun}
D’awwwwwwwwwww…
…
Am I evil for supporting this relationship? I think not.
Well, you’re supporting Joyce trying to “turn him straight,” so… maybe?
That’s not necessarily what she’s trying to do. I’m not sure exactly what’s going through her head here, but I like to think she’s just displaying some really, really sweet sympathy right now. Because the kiss scene is really really sweet and full of FEELS.
Yeah, I’m not sure why everyone is jumping straight to the “evil Christian conversion therapy” conclusion. I think it’s pretty obvious that Joyce just empathized with his struggle to contain unwanted sexual desires and maintain a sense of control and normalcy, because that’s pretty much exactly her own issues (on top of near-rape PTSD). You know, like she spoke of in the bathroom a few strips ago.
Possibly because lip-kissing him makes no sense whatsoever unless she’s trying to kindle a romantic relationship with him, possibly because he’s perfect because he’ll only go as fast as she pushes him.
On the other hand, she could just have lost her freakin’ mind, making lip-kissing seem like a good idea here basically because her she’s lost all sense of what having a good idea is. That’s actually my theory.
Maybe she’s kissing him one last time because he was her first boyfriend and first kiss? Or she’s just showing him some affection?
Ethan did just say “I understand if you want to leave me now”. That doesn’t say “I’m breaking up with you because I’m gay”, that says “Even though I’m gay, I want to have a relationship with you.” Joyce has never dated before, knows little to nothing about gay people and is going to take everything Ethan says at face value. I honestly think it’s very understandable that she kissed him.
Now, do I think this is good? No, this relationship is a terrible idea.
I really hope Joyce and Ethan are not going to do what I think might happen (ie help Ethan continue to “closet” himself and/or try to do “a pray the gay away”); especially since “ignore” “shut it up” “lock it up” were some of Ethan’s bolded words describing his own view of his homosexuality (and could sorta describe the way Joyce views hers and the idea of sexuality in general).
What the shit.
JOYCE THAT IS NOT HOW YOU TREAT PEOPLE PLATONICALLY.
….that picture with that comment….
It’s not even how I treat people romantically. Y’know, cuz I’m single and stuff.
Ethan seems to be taking this kiss a lot better, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
He’s imagining Joyce as a man. A short highpitched blonde man.
Cut the hair, give her some stubble and she’d be Drew.
WHAT
WHAAAAAT
Joyce is taking this markedly better than I anticipated. Maybe the relationship won’t continue but I’m glad she didn’t have automatic fear kick in in response.
That or her mind’s just broke and she’s gone insane. Because that’s not how you kiss a gay friend Joyce!
Think about what Joyce has been through. Think about what she’s really afraid of right now, and what she’s been fighting.
He’s perfect because he has no interest in having sex with her.
Only if her interest in the relationship is purely selfish.
um, yeah, but so was his. She’s not allowed to have issues too?
I wasn’t criticising Joyce; I was criticising the definition of a perfect relationship as one that’s built around selfish desires.
Bingo.
im just glad im not the only confused by this
This is just so fucked up. Could someone call campus security already?
…wait, what?
y’know. it is possible for a kiss to happen without there needing to be a sexual connotation. it’s rare, but this doesn’t necessarily mean ethan’s going to be closeting his relationship further etc.
No on the lips in the united states, it isn’t. All such kisses are romantic. I can only conclude that she’s either hoping to ‘turn’ him, or has gone insane.
I’m from the states, and don’t recall having seen something like this… but I still think you’re wrong. We need to wait until tomorrow to see what’s going on here.
I’m an American, and that statement creeps me the heck out. It is decidedly not true that all kisses on the lips in the U.S. are romantic! So far the kiss looks ambiguous to me (I’m assuming intentionally so), and it could still easily be a tender last kiss from an ex-girlfriend, or a (possibly ill-advised) act of comfort. I think an awful lot of people are jumping to conclusions here.
I am honestly at a loss for counterexamples.
Actually that last kiss from an ex is a pretty good one. That’s one that happens.
It IS, but in the context of:
Ethan: I understand if you want to leave me now.
Joyce: No. Never.
I think the romantic aspect is implied on both sides.
Leave her alone. She just dealt with someone who only wanted to get in her pants, and a guy who tried to drug and rape her. It isn’t healthy, but at least she can pretend to have a nice boyfriend without worrying about him trying to hurt her.
Yeah. ‘Fraid so. Ethan’s just proven that he’s safe, and coming from her recent experience, Joyce wants safety.
When she wants more from him, that’s not going to be good.
Plus she may well believe that you can pray away the gay, in which case things will end very badly indeed.
But yeah. Very interesting twist, and I can see why she’s responding this way.
*Both* of them are experts at bottling up their feelings until they explode. It’s gonna be a rough one.
It makes sense to me why she thinks he’s perfect. She wants to ignore the annoying stuff going on in her pants too. She’s terrified of sexual intimacy and Ethan just offered her the option of a romantic relationship with no threat of that.
But a fear of sexuality is unhealthy. It means fearing and hating an extra part of your self. They’re enabling each other.
Happy birth day David! Thank you for the comics. First non-heteronormative thing I ever read and liked. High school me thanks you.
Sometimes being in a situation in which you feel safe is the thing that actually allows you to overcome your irrational fears in your own time. Joyce recognizes her fears, which is already a huge step in that direction.
I don’t really thing this would last long, either, but it’s not necessarily an entirely bad thing.
Your response makes me think that you think I was implying this relationship would be a good idea. No not really. It obviously couldn’t work long term but I do agree with isitsevenyet that it could potentially help Joyce work through her own issues while I feel like this would be a regression for Ethan. In my opinion they should just be platonic friends and Joyce should probably go into counseling of some kind to work on her intimacy issues and trauma from the attempted rape.
So many shoulds screw all the shoulds and the moralities and just enjoy the moment
THEORY TIME; Ethan and Joyce deiced to remain in a sexless companionship and goes well for both of them for a while, then both/one of them find someone else to bone/poke(or whatever Joyce does) then it gets awkward.
Also, WOO! My first comment on a Willis comic, Hopefully I don’t come off like a huge bigot!
I say either Joyce feels so safe with Ethan that eventually she tries to come onto him, which freaks him out and he realize he can’t be in a straight relationship and he dumps her -OR- Ethan meets someone at IU who is successfully openly gay and happy and realizes that’s what he wants.
Feelings are going to get hurt no matter how you slice this one, I think. Aah, Amber’s going to be mad / guilty / mad.
SECOND THEORY; Willis pulls a fast one on us all and tomorrows punchline is both of them naked in a bed looking shocked.
AHAHAHahah and then there are two more days just of them sitting there in bed and the comments section explodes until Monday.
On Friday we’d learn they had a threesome with Dina without realising she was there.
Pretty much this, if it doesn’t get cut off in the next couple of strips.
*Eventually* tries to come onto him? What do you think is happening in panel 5?
Couldn’t it just be that they find support on each other? This relationship offers them a safe haven, and in that safety they grow more sure of themselves. So, when they find THE ONE, either one or both will have no issue letting go.
And they will remain friends forever!
…You know, I’m really pulling for this couple. There is no way their relationship will not be interesting.
So Ethan is playing on going SUG(Straight Until Graduation) then?
The steered straight program?
STOP TRYING TO TURN HIM STRAIGHT, JOYCE.
What…the fuck?
Well, when this inevitably goes to hell, there will probably be much less hurt feelings than most of us thought there would be.
At this point I am going to give Joyce the benifit of the doubt a say that when she is saying he is perfect, it is because she accepts his sexuality as normal. The kiss reminds me of the last scene from Lost in Translation.
Or she’s decided Ethan is the perfect boyfriend, because he doesn’t desire her sexually, letting her lock away that “annoying stuff going on in [her] pants” that she’s so afraid of (per strip for 3/8/2013), and continue to repress and deny. Which in turn lets Ethan have a perfect girlfriend to let himself repress and deny his orientation, as part of him clearly wants to.
It’s like watching that magic moment when the sharp edge of the iceberg first strikes iron plate, and the first rivet pops loose to let in the cold, cold sea.
I am confused by this comic.
And you chose the right gravatar for that statement. 😀
Coming soon to a theater near you…Dumbing of Age 2: The Ungayening.
Dumbing of Age 3: The Regaykining.
He’s back, and gayer than ever
Dumbing of Age 4: Gay Harder
Dumbing of Age 5: The Gay to end all Gays
Willis is like the most pro-gay webcomic writer out there, you really think this is gonna be about changing sexuality? Please. Re-read the archives of shortpacked or something lol
<3 This.
I think we’re mostly just making dumb sequel title jokes, that’s all.
More like: “Gay another day” I’d say.
AAAAAaaaaa…… Aa. Aaaapril? Aaaapril fools? April fools?!?!
Oh god, please, April Fools?
(This is going to be very interesting to read, though…. I will concede that is true. But Aaah this can’t be good.)
Yeah, my first reaction to this one was to check today’s date. Twice.
Really curious for where this will lead to.
this is exactly what it felt like being queer in college.
even if it is an april fool’s joke, like some commenters have suggested…
that look in ethan’s face… second to last panel…
that was me…
Shh, don’t call yourself that.
I think maybe somebody should point out the Fundagelical side to this, since y’all seem to be kinda confused.
A lot of really Joycian Christians are homo/bisexual, and really homo/biphobic. They have “Those Sinful Urges,” but they either believe the sin is in acting on them, and as long as they only do the sex with the right gender, they’re okay, so they either grin and bear it with someone they’re not attracted to, or remain celibate, and go into a spiral of self-loathing. It’s part of why so many closeted right-wing Christianists are so angry all the time – they deny their own identity, and hate themselves for it, and there’s somebody out there who, they think, COULD be choosing “righteousness,” but is choosing sin.
When Ethan says “I wish I could just ignore the annoying stuff in my pants … shut it up and lock it away forever,” I’d give even odds or better that what Joyce hears is not “I wish I could go back to people seeing me as normal,” but “I hate that I am full of sin, and I’m trying to shut the sinful part of me up and lock it away.” So, uh… yeah.
Yeah, your final paragraph describes what I think how Joyce might interpret Ethan’s spiel as, unfortunately.
Oh COME ON Can’t she just be taking him literally? Can’t she just be understanding HOW HARD IT IS TO FEEL SO DIFFERENT?
When I came out about my same-sex attraction, not everyone took it totally cool. I’m still not out to everyone I know. When I came out about my Christian beliefs to my strictist atheist friends and family, I lost friends just for saying things they disagreed with on MY internet spaces, where they didn’t have to go look. Joyce and Ethan both get this kind of weirdness, and this fear of bigotry, when even your best friends, and those who love you (ergo, Amber for him, Dorothy for her) don’t GET you.
Can’t it be about that?
And stop stereotyping me, dear fellow human, as an evangelical Christian with strong lesbian tendencies! Sex itself is not a sin according to the Bible. In fact, NOT having sex with your married partner is a sin according to 1 Cor. 7. Sex is awesome. THAT’s what evangelical “nondenominational” Bible-thumpers really believe. Don’t go judging those of us with same sex attraction who use our sexual urges differently than you do. We choose to embrace our gender, rather than just our urges; to love ourselves for what our external, scientific biology says, not what internal triggers spurred by nurture and social things say. You may choose otherwise, but sometimes we choose to hold things back so we can release them harder later on.
Not all “repression” is bad. We ask murderers to please “repress” their desires all the time. My same sex attraction is not like murder. It comes from an ability to recognize the beauty in other women, and that’s awesome. It’s awesome that I can love women. It’s not awesome when that love becomes an all-consuming sexual lust. My sexuality is an awesome, beautiful, flowing stream, and I choose to redirect that in a way that God says worships him. Maybe you choose to let the river run wild. That’s your choice. Don’t judge mine and say I’m “repressed” and going to go off like a bomb the next minute because I don’t bang girls (no matter how much I wanted to).
Love and sex are not the same thing. I choose to use my lady-loving tendencies in a different way–and not a physical way–despite how my sex drive WANTS me to use them. Sexuality is fluid. I can play with my sexuality, alter it, redirect it. It’s hard work, but I’m not afraid of it.
So yeah, maybe we believe some whack things, according to you. Maybe you see people as static, not malleable. But please, we’re people like you, and we don’t fit in boxes and labels and shit. Don’t stereotype us and say we’re all “denying our identity” or “angry all the time” or any of that. We choose to love ourselves–we just see ourselves differently than you do, less static, more malleable and powerful. We see ourselves as more complicated and less simple. We forget ourselves in order to love ourselves better. We are happiest in God, and so we give a lot to gain that happiness.
We are Christian hedonists. And yes, we put away our same sex attractions for it.
Maybe it something you’d never do. But we do it for love, not for hate. Love is the only way we could ever do this.
No more stereotypes!
Yes, attitudes toward sexuality and same-sex attraction among Christians are actually quite diverse.
I have a number of gay and lesbian friends who are Christians and married to their same-sex partners. Several of these are ordained, active clergy, including the pastor of my own church.
I suspect they have a different understanding of their sexuality (and how it relates to creating a loving life partnership and a loving relationship with God) is probably rather different from yours, though some of them may have been through a stage where they were thinking similarly to you.
In any event, it is not as though straight Christians (or atheists, for that matter) don’t have to wrestle with their sexualities and sexual identities–it’s a process every human goes through. A process each of us has to go through for ourselves. It may be a bit less complicated for straight people because their basic tendencies are less at odds with what society regards as the norm, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t tension between desire and duty. Really, that tension between desire and duty drives quite a lot of human existence–it is a struggle that makes us human, whether we are straight or gay or something else.
I think Willis is doing a pretty good job of dealing with Joyce and Ethan in all their psychological complexity here–they may be based on archetypes, but I don’t think either is stereotyped.
Of course readers will view the characters through the lens of their own stereotypes about the types of people they represent. If Willis is doing his job, he’ll be getting us to question our stereotypes and think about things in a new way.
I had to double-check to make sure that you were actually replying to VMtheCoyote’s post, because you seem to be utterly misunderstanding what he/she said. VMtheCoyote gave a hypothesis about the behaviour of some ‘Joycian’ Christians who experience ‘same-sex attraction’, as you put it. You proceeded to go on the defensive and not only claim that VMtheCoyote was talking about all ‘Joycian’ Christians (and I’m still not sure how you’ve chosen to interpret that to begin with), but also to speak for all of those Joycian Christians from your own experience, assuming that they are all like you. You did start off with a more personal ‘defence’, but then you started talking about ‘we’ and ‘us’ the moment you started telling VMtheCoyote not to stereotype. What’s more, VMtheCoyote was specifically not talking about you. He/she said ‘closeted’. You are not closeted, even if you’re not out to ‘everyone you know’.
To continue complaining, you wrote:
“We choose to embrace our gender, rather than just our urges; to love ourselves for what our external, scientific biology says, not what internal triggers spurred by nurture and social things say.”
First of all, this sounds potentially transphobic. Secondly, it is directly contradictory to what you’ve written later on. You talk about repressing your sexual lust – the ‘scientific biology’ – or rather, redirecting it ‘in the way that God says worships him’ – which I would argue to be the very definition of ‘what nurture and Social things say’, unless you learned about God’s position on the matter some other way.
I for one think that PetrePan is quite brave to her willingness to discuss this topic on such a personal level, and she’s probably been crapped on a lot for her beliefs and self by people on both sides of the “fundamentalist fence” as it were. So chillack man, so she’s a little sensitive on the subject, BIG SURPRISE!
I for one, like to believe that Joyce is truly relating to Ethan’s fear and internal struggle and is loving and accepting him for his human-ness and vulnerability, instead of just misinterpreting his statements.
I agree that she’s quite brave to discuss the topic on such a personal level, and I agree that it’s unsurprising that she’s a little sensitive about it. I don’t agree that this gives her posts any particular immunity to criticism – disagreeing with someone is not dependent on how you see them as a person.
Crapped on? In earlier exchanges?
I certainly was not trying to belittle PetrePan’s understanding of her sexuality or how it relates to her Christian beliefs, but was just trying to point out that there is a lot of diversity in Christians’ approach to the issue–which is perhaps not news to her but is news to a lot of people. (Or at least there are a lot of people who try to speak for all Christians on the subject when, in fact, we don’t speak with one voice).
I was also moved to respond to Petre because I’ve been on the Joyce side of this type of situation, i.e. straight partner in a relationship with a woman who realized during the course of our relationship that she was lesbian. Remembering the emotional angst that I went through during this process, I was tempted to launch into anti-“transforming” arguments in the hopes of warning her about the pitfalls of getting married to someone with whom she is incapable of experiencing that special connection that makes for a good marriage. However, it was apparent from her post that she is approaching her sexuality in a pretty open-minded and thoughtful fashion. So I was trying to affirm that, but also to hint that six oblique references to same-sex acts between men in the Bible is such limited evidence for God’s will on the subject of homosexuality that many Christians have pretty much rejected the “traditional” church teachings on the subject and constructed new ones that apply basic Christian principles (love God, love your neighbor) to our present understandings of human sexuality.
I was offering that as food for thought, not as a critique of her position.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience, Petre. I pray that you will continue to grow in your understanding of yourself and your beliefs and find a happy relationship that works for you (and the other person) in the long term, whether that ends up being with a man or a woman.
1) If you are bisexual but in love with and married to a man, there is nothing wrong with that. You are in a monogamous relationship. You are not required by ANYONE, under ANY circumstances, to go out and be with a woman.
2) But the popular interpretation of the Bible is… Wrong. The passages that seem to talk about homosexuality have been mistranslated.
http://hoperemains.m.webs.com/
I’ve been sharing this link a lot but I think it could use the signal boost.
I really hope you don’t feel bullied, by me or anyone else — I can’t stress enough that I think what you and your husband have is GREAT. I just want you to have all the facts, so that you know God doesn’t hate the parts of you that aren’t completely heterosexual. In fact, the conclusion this site comes to from some particular verses is that God doesn’t want us to repress ourselves or force a sexuality that isn’t ours.
Please read each section — they are long and very careful, filled with painstaking translations and historical as well as textual context. (The proper translation of “Man shall not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is an abomination” is especially eye-opening for the awkwardness of the English Bible, but that the word most commonly translated as “homosexual” actually means “temple prostitute” (referring to then-common pagan sexual rituals) is probably the most revealing.)
So, thank you for sharing. I hope the link helps a little. It really meant a lot to me when I first found it.
Hey, I’m sorry – I didn’t mean to make that seem so targeted or personal. I’m bi, and was raised very strictly Baptist; the reason I made the post is because I remember going through the phase of denial, and then the subsequent phase of self-loathing. My first reaction to people who go “Look, I know same-sex relationships are appealing, but they’re SINFUL so STOP IT” is usually pity. It doesn’t make their position any less wrong or hurtful, or even hateful, but knowing there’s some serious pain buried down there makes it easier to understand.
“And stop stereotyping me, dear fellow human, as an evangelical Christian with strong lesbian tendencies! Sex itself is not a sin according to the Bible.”
There’s a reason I said ‘fundegelical.’ The thing is, I’m still a Christian, and I seriously do not know how to come up with a word that means “Those assholes who go around deliberately misinterpreting sections of the Bible, or who have bought into the deliberate misinterpretation of sections of the Bible,” so I jump around – unfortunately, it is usually Evangelicals who do that.
The rest of your text I honestly have no idea how to engage. Love shared between people is a beautiful thing; I don’t think it takes away from Christianity to act on love for another human being. I’m very confused as to how you could think that God gave humans sex drives, but intended us to only follow through on some of them. I don’t know how it’s “worshiping God” to have sex with a dude, but not with a lady, or vice versa. Mostly, my reading comes from two, three places: One, “Love thy God; love thy neighbor as thyself.” Two, “Do you love me? …feed my sheep.” Three, which I’m not going to quote ‘cos it’s quite long, but Peter’s vision, which allowed him to eat pork and shrimp… and to sit down and talk/eat/pray with dirty uncircumcised Gentiles and other not-accepted-by-Leviticus folks.
…so I finally comment on this comic, and of course it’s a mile-long essay on theology. The fuck is wrong with me? Look, my point, Petre, is that there’s NOTHING WRONG with being gay/lesbian/bi/trans/queer, and I don’t think being a Christian changes that. But I know that a lot of people from Joyce’s background, when they first realize that someone is queer, even if that person is themselves, is to decide that the only “Godly” thing to do is to deny themselves sexual fulfillment, and, to some extent, happiness. It would be quite natural for Joyce to see this as a possibility for Ethan. That’s all I was saying.
I…I just….
*facepalm*
I think what’s going through Joyce’s head here is that she’s finally found a boy who won’t try to take advantage of her and wants to forget about sex entirely, much like her. Not saying it’s healthy, just that that’s probably her reasoning.
<–Withholding judgement until the other shoe inevitably drops.
Put me in with the others who are in the “Confused” camp. Hopefully this will turn out well, but I’m not optimistic.
Oh yeah! Happy Birthday Art-Dude-Bro (kill me)!
Can’t wait to see you for realz at Calgary (I’m a volunteer)!
Tomorrow on Dumbing of Age: Joyce finds out what the word “gay” means, and Dina makes out with a pterodactyl!~ Tune in every week day for more *Adventures With Sexual Frustration!*
“Perfect for my HUSBAND! AHAHAHAHAHA!”
“…I don’t think you understand what’s going on here…”
This is beginning to look like michelle bachmann’s marriage
I gotta say this strip itself is a prime example of fantastic. These two people; in their situations and the strange things going on in their respective pants – culminating in Joyce’s line and actions – just made my freaking 12:56 AM.
Is no one going to bring up the entire thing about Joyce seeing love as a choice and not a fulfillment of desires? Him actively choosing this relationship validates her point of view and bases the relationship on something other than lust.
I never comment on the sites but… is no one going to mention how unbearably sad the third panel is?
She understands. Its how she feels. She wants to shit it all away and lock it away forever, because repression and religious hang ups are mixing really badly with trauma. And Ethan… well, we just heard his reasons. Its hard, and he wants it not to *be* hard, and hes projecting onto his view of other people the way we all do.
…and its sad, damnit. It’s just… sad. However this goes. This moment shows that Joys has all this sad bolted up in her that makes her kind of tragic.
….I guess at least her second kiss was nicer then her first.
Am I the only one who thinks this is gonna turn into a Saved! situation? Because that movie was awesome.
what?
what?!
WHAT?!
I hope she really means the “You are perfect.” thing and doesn’t work immediately on changing him. I won’t say it’s healthy, but maybe it’d be nice to have a relationship of sorts where they can focus on the non-sexual parts that bring them joy as part of company with another person.
I will reserve judgement until the next comic to determine whether this is adorable or just awful.
Awful as in the situation, not the comic itself. The comic itself tugged at my heartstrings.
Is it weird that this makes total (-ly fucked up) sense to me?
Joyce is scared of whats going on in her pants and fears it will condemn her to hell/being ostracized/feeling bad.
Ethan is scared of whats going on in his pants and fears it will make him be swallowed up/be his only noticeable feature to others.
I’m not saying this is a good thing, but it makes sense why they’re together and why they kissed. She has found someone who won’t make her do things outside her comfort zone, and gives ethan a chance to be something other than gay (because apparently he thinks once people know you’re gay thats all they think about you and not other aspects).
That’s how you know it’s well-written. It’s surprising but it makes sense: that’s the balance.
I’m curious where it’ll go from here. Joyce seems likely to want to “convert” Ethan to save his soul, except that the most obvious method to try to convert him is closed to her (as well as the next-most-obvious, and the next after that, and, oh, forget it).
So it seems like she’s planning instead to embark with him on a path to mutual celibacy. They’re better equipped to do this than a lot of Dumbiverse characters are, but not so well-equipped that I think they’re actually going to be successful at it. At some point, their bodies are going to revolt against the idea that this is all there is, and all there ever will be, for them.
I’m laying odds on Joyce getting excessively kissy and grabby with Ethan one rainy night, neither of them realizing that if the physical stimulation is strong enough and there’s enough free-floating desire, even a gay man can occasionally, um, RESPOND. Witness another Ethan’s relations with Conquest.
True love waits. But not forever.
Awwwww…shizzle.
Called it.
Progess? Regress? Congress?! I DON’T HOW TAKE THIS WILLIS! HOW CAN I SHIP THIS IF IT’S NOT EVEN SURE OF WHAT TO MAKE IT?!
They just became my favorite pairing.
Joyce, that was the most perfect/beautiful/wrongheaded thing to say at that moment.
And this could legitimately go any number of different directions tomorrow and still feel true to the characters.
Willis, I believe you got a Level Up for your birthday!
WILLIS, YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!
(I read your book!)
awwww goes the crowd.
What is i don’t even
I want to speak about all the kinds of wrong that are going on here but my brain just shifted gears without a clutch and Iasdffgghjkhjkll;lkj
When Marcus met Michelle (Bachmann). That is all.
I don’t think she remembered what the actual news was….
Oh…
Crappity crap!
This is simultaneously touching and incredibly dysfunctional. That sweet little kiss just set a drama time bomb ticking, I know it.
…Joyce, do you understand what the word “gay” means? ETHAN, DO YOU?
Damn! I should have called this. Now nobody will believe me if I say I saw it coming :c
Oh, wow. They’re coming at the same problem from wildly different angles… they could be almost soulmates… and yet, those different angles are going to make this whole situation blow up in their faces.
I am … befuddled.
awww…. I’m sure at some point this will blow up in their faces, but I do like this. Joyce is right, for her right now, he is perfect. He watches cartoons with her and he likes spending time with her, and then he’s totally not going to try any hanky-panky with her, which is an activity she wants to never think about…. Here’s a man she can spend time with and learn what it’s like to be in a relationship while healing from her traumatic experience. he’s exactly what she needs to heal for now….
agreed! hopefully she can let him go without too much destruction when Ethan meets his man
agreed. I guess we better hope she finds another boyfriend before Ethan finds one.
God, Ethan, you like guys. That’s it.
What bothers me is that I don’t think Ethan even tried to be comfortable with himself. His friends obviously accept him as he is (and Amber’s need for some time for herself is understandable) but he’s more focused on what others are thinking and sidestepping that than being ok with himself. (I’m not judging, I did similar stuff).
And Joyce: no. Just no.
We know that some of his friends accepted him, namely Amber and Mike (and with the best will in the world I can’t call Mike supportive). We also know that his mother and grandfather were not okay with it, that his coming out was apparently stressful enough that Amber spent the whole summer helping him through it, and that Ethan’s of the opinion that being gay changes how everyone relates to you. I doubt Amber’s the only reason he believes that.
True, but since he’s looking at how things change in how people relate to him because he’s gay it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. He hasn’t tried just being himself.
We don’t know that, is my point. He hasn’t tried just being himself at college. He was out for three months before that (probably voluntarily?) and our data on that period is minimal. Maybe he feels like he tried being gay and…actually, given the way he described it to Amber a few strips ago, it sounds like he feels being openly gay stopped him from being himself, at least in any way that involved dealing with other people.
And of course now he’s generalizing it to the whole world and the rest of his life and overcompensating in response, all true. I just don’t think it’s fair to say “he never tried” when we don’t really know how those three months went.
Point.
Yeah, this… doesn’t make any sense, sorry.
Happy birthday David Willis, you evil, evil man.
So, I guess it’s going to be Ethan’s inevitable cheating that pulls the plug on this relationship. I wonder who it’ll be with? Mike seems too easy.
We have not seen Drew, Manny or even Thad in this universe yet
We have seen Duncan though, are him and Ethan arch enemies in this universe too?
Hey, maybe one of the regular cast will turn bi-curious. It’d be an interesting turn of events to have it be a guy for once.
Wait, what?
It’s really sweet, but it’s misguided. Best to have a clean break, but NOOOOOOO!
A clean break would be too simple, too easy. Where’s the fun in that when you can drive everyone nuts.
Hm.
I am conflicted. The logical, rational part of my brain says this will never work. The emotional, romantic part of my brain says, “Go for it, Joyce! Throw caution to the wind! You could find a way to make it work!” What to do??
*rolls a d100*
I was not ready for this…
Hehe, your avatar and comment – priceless!
I’ve been rooting for these two, they’re easily the most interesting couple in the comic for me. I like the way you’re handling this so far, Willis. Very entertaining.
Well, I was completely not expecting this.
Um. Yeah.
I was assuming she’d be struggling with it but that it would be a slow character growth thing for Joyce. I’m not even gonna speculate now, I just REALLY want to see where this is gonna go.
Lulz.
/thatisall
… /noitisnt
Wait, so, what, is she going to be his willing beard now, or is that a goodbye kiss?
I’m not sure it’s either at this point, although it does sound like she’s weighing the benefits of “dating” someone who isn’t remotely interested in having sex with her.
And, by the way, happy birthday, David!
(What are you, like forty now?)
This will blow up in epic proportions.
sooo…on another note.
Shortpacked + It’s walky = ethan and Joyce k.i.s.s.i.n.g
also, lastly
Happy birthday!!!! 😀
I’m just gonna point out one thing: We all assume Ethan is gay because alot of us A: Have gotten used to it be Ethan’s defining characteristic or B: Because DoA’s Amber said so.
But let me throw a wild theory out there:
A nerd who spend waaaayyyy too much time with her online friends neglects her boyfriend, who then mistakenly begins to believe he isn’t good enough to attract a woman’s attention, let alone sexual desire. Which then leads to his confusion over whether or not he’s really attracted to women because of his heterosexuality or because of the companionship he expects should come with a relationship. Amber of course doesn’t see this (what with her head literally being an inch away from the monitor. She routinely ignores Dina’s existence, remembers?)
Leading her to think he’s homosexual and just mistakenly latched onto her (Cause why would Ethan spend time with her?)
And now we just watched her blow up on Ethan because ONCE AGAIN she’s too busy leading a fantasy life to realize maybe, JUST MAYBE, Ethan found the kind of girl he should have been with all along. I wouldn’t be surprised if even Ethan learns to admit to himself he’s actually just as comfortable waiting for sex like Joyce is.
I’m hoping for more of a “!!!!.. suddenly began to evolve!” story arc for both Amber and Ethan.
On the side. As far as I’m concerned Walky is still the center which the Walkyverse rotates, which means it all about Walky and Dorothy~!
No.
We assume Ethan is gay because WILLIS said so, approximately 1 billion times.
The strongest repressed couple is BORN!
I have no idea what direction this will go, but any direction it should be fun to watch. *happiness*
Happy birthday, Willis. I give you the joy of my company.
Actually, I prefer to think of that as something I’ve taken away from you.
What I’m wondering is whether this kiss makes Ethan realize, after Joyce has given up on Ethan of course, that he is actually bi. I know the haters are gonna hate me for saying that, because Ethan is their flagbearer of homosexuality. But no one can ever say that they have finished discovering everything there is about themselves. Just because he knows he is gay and has never been attracted to the women he’s known doesn’t mean that there’s no woman out there who, while maybe not turn him on, may make him fall in love. The very fact that Joyce, a complete shut-in to anything outside of traditional conservative values, would still unconditionally empathize with Ethan, accept him, and kiss him knowing that he is gay, has got to strike a chord with Ethan. He’s probably never kissed a girl who’s accepted him for who he is, so who knows?
Of course, I’d write it so that Ethan realizes it only after Joyce gives up on him as a love interest.
I love character progression, and it’s great to see Joyce moving forward here, and it would be very interesting if what I’ve been saying actually did happen. Not to mention the potential hijinks of a gay man falling in love with a conservative girl.
Leslie is our flagbearer for Gay.
Ethan’s just the guy who likesw other guys in every universe.
I think many (including myself) would take issue with that simply because, while there’s plenty of lesbians to go around in the collective Willisverse, there’s only one significant gay male character. All the other gay (bi in Drew’s case) guys have been love interests for Ethan, and haven’t really been expanded upon outside that role. The person that came closest to that was Thad, but he never actually had a romantic relationship with Ethan, and he certainly couldn’t be considered a main character (more like someone on par with Duncan).
I guess one could count Mike as a potential non-heterosexual male, but I’m pretty sure that was only a one-off occasion, committed with the sole intention of being a huge asshole.
I’m not sure Mike’s asshole had anything to do with that incident. Ethan’s maybe but not Mike’s.
Fine for a real-world scenario, but a) Ethan should’ve had that realization after their first kiss, b) word of god is “gay”.
This isn’t going to bring about a new discovery of Ethan’s sexuality, just yet more closeting.
Bittersweet, definish of.
Furthermore, I think that those who don’t think that Joyce understands the situation don’t understand the situation.
There’s a very high probability that she’s just reacting to the emotional intensity of the moment. One way or the other.
Or she’s instantly compared him with her chick tracks and identified him as a repentant gay that wants to be turned straight, and into her boyfriend and future husband, with the perk that he would at no point in the transition between gay and hubby become a lusty or rapey person.
If it’s the latter, we should know by the end of the week, presuming that Willis doesn’t yank the camera away or something.
Which is exactly what’s going to happen of course.
I was mostly thinking of the comments about Joyce not knowing what “gay” means. While she obviously has some misconceptions about gay people (see previous strip), there is nothing here to suggest that she doesn’t understand the basic definition.
Ethan is the apparent solution to Joyce’s problems at the moment. She is afraid of losing control of her sexual urges – but with Ethan, nothing would happen if she did. She is afraid of being ogled, used or raped – not gonna happen either. They can do all the innocent cute and cuddly stuff without it escalating, and when they’re alone, they can support each other in their struggle to overcome horniness.
Yeah, she’s emotionally overwhelmed, and she’s not thinking about the future, but I’d say she understands perfectly what Ethan is saying.
And she’s not trying to turn him straight, not at the moment. That would negate all the immediate benefits of their relationship. Ethan simply being gay wouldn’t clash with her beliefs, either. As long as he doesn’t preach or practice it, he’s not actively sinning.
See, this would all make sense, except she immediately went for the kiss. Sorry all you people raised to to think that a prolonged kiss on the lips means “hello”, I’m just not buying it. She’s going for the genuine romance route with a gay man. Not the behavior I’d expect of someone hoping to be a mutual platonic beard.
We’ll see soon enough though.
Of course the kiss doesn’t mean “hello”.
Joyce kisses Ethan because she wants to kiss Ethan. Doesn’t mean she expects him to experience it the same way she does.
Okay, this is kinda sweet. I understand how they’re coming from very similar places in a weird way.
Nonetheless, I just want to shove them both into a room with a counselor and refuse to let them leave until they talk through some of their twisted-up head logic. BEGONE SHAME!
Wow, didn’t see that coming. Poor Joyce, going for the least scary relationship she can find. Poor Ethan.
Also, happy birthday dude.
Whelp, didn’t see that coming.
Ironically, they are a perfect match. This may take a threesome to solve.
A sexuality mediator, huh? Someone to take from one and give to the other?
That’s actually an intriguing idea. Outlandish and silly, yeah, but it could go places.
Write it in, D.W.
I think its sweet. Ethan just wants to out without it changing his relationships to other people, and Joyce wants a man that she feels safe with after her near-rape. This relationship won’t work out for obvious reasons, but I think maybe it could be a healing experience for both of them. It could just be something that organically evolves into a very special friendship for them.
*to be out
Interesting prediction!
It’s too happy to actually happen, but there you are.
sigh… you’re probably right. Knowing Joyce, she’ll probably still except him to marry her.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfItsYouItsOkay
Perhaps the above trope is a possibility? Interestingly enough, Shortpacked already has an example listed there.
I…
I don’t know what to make of this development.
Happy birthday, Dave, from some guy you’ve never met. Thanks for doing the comic.
I just realized that Ethan described himself as well as Joyce in this strip- remember, Joyce had been talking with Dorothy about suppressing her thoughts as well. Ethan and Joyce are parallels; the problem is that Joyce wants them to intersect.
I feel stupidly happy despite all rationale.
Also, happy birthday, Willis
Anyone else notice the random hand on Joyce’s shoulder in the third panel?
Happy birthday Willis!
Despite the extremely sentimental scene, which is the kind of scene I love, I can’t see this actually being a remotely good thing. If Joyce takes his cry for normalcy and whips it into a pray-away-the-gay thing, I don’t think it will be good for either character’s development.
I actually really like this strip and think it can go good places. As a webcomic, that is highly unlikely, but I know plenty of hetero-couples with one homosexual partner that are together for religious purposes. I think when Ethan was saying that “I wish I could just ignore the annoying stuff going on in my pants… lock it away forever” he means it as a want to be normal thing that equates as his personal sin. Joyce both empathizes with the need for normalcy and probably hears the religious undertones which not only say that they both feel abnormal, but that they both want the same thing: a “sinless”, normal, hetero-relationship. He is a safe place for her and she’s a safe place for him – you don’t see his ex and best friend being as accepting or even supportive in his feelings about it. It’s more than that, though, as that kiss, right then, was a physical answer to the need to be understood they both felt.
Clearly they’re continuing a relationship, and I actually see Joyce trying to convert him religiously rather than sexually after this because him being gay isn’t the issue for her because he’s Trying to do “right” thing. Ethan being the same religion might be a little more important for her. This may eventually become a pray-away-the-gay thing or she may just end up developing the feelings she’s already had about Ethan and now that they’re amplified with an emotional connection…. which means it could end badly (he can’t accept her desires) or it could even go well like with the marriages I know (he fulfills his duty as a husband would – since they’re supposed to wait til marriage anyway) and enjoys the rewards of children, normalcy, a loving-not-lustful relationship.
Although I can see the comic now going that Joyce does develop those urges safely and tries to prematurely act on them, which could go any which way. If they do, I would kind of hope Ethan would stop her, remind her of her values, and then they would have to reevaluate the relationship and either find they’re both happy with it or part mutually. They’re both too sweet for this to end badly. That’s my personal opinion for this. They both need some stability to gain any confidence with themselves and we need some happy endings building in here.
… wuuuuuuuuuuh?
WHAT.
“Now we can feel guilty about sex… TOGETHER”
…So… chaste asexual romantic relationship?
OR on the other hand, maybe Ethan will tell her he’s completely miserable being gay and would do anything to never have those feelings again, crying on her, and say he can “UNDERSTAND IF SHE WANTS TO LEAVE HIM NOW”.
I still think Joyce would NEVER have forced this issue on her own, but Ethan’s self-loathing makes taking him to church to try to pray the gay away seem 100% (for her) like the KIND thing to do.
Bleh, this is hard to read. I want to shake Ethan so hard for reinforcing this bullshit more than I feel actual sympathy for him but you can’t deny this is something people go through.
This…cannot end well for either of them.
They could get mutilated, MankindtheMutilater.
Will Joyce get a sex change to make this work?
Will Ethan’s inner desire for penis make this a little too hard for him?
Will Batman escape from Riddler’s carousel of doom?
Find out next week! Same Bat-time! Same Bat-channel!
Your comment was made all the more hilarious do to the high volume of Batman: The Brave & the Bold I’ve been watching.
It also reminds me of that Catwoman review the Nostalgia Critic did recently.
Wwwelp.
This looks like the beginning…of a very strange friendship? Fake-ship? Closet-ship? Some kind of ship, anyway.
So Joyce has found herself a boyfriend without having to worry about pre-marital hanky-panky. Not so good with the having kids part however.
Gay men have successfully reproduced with straight women in the past. “Is not sexually attracted to” was never equivalent to “is physically incapable to achieve orgasm with”, or people would spend a lot of time lusting over their own hands.
Joyce probably isn’t thinking that far, though.
Which comic has the most unhealthy relationship today, DoA or Shortpacked?
I decide! It’s DoA!
This is going to end with both of them seeing a counsellor.
You never watched high school sex ed films from the year 3000 ad
The tongue of Crist Compels you.
So who here shall Christine this new ship
Well, apparently the ship is being christened Christine.
I got Christine’d once.
I never saw her again.
I’m sorry, I forgot: Happy Birthday, Willis!
Couldn’t Joyce just be responding to his pain? She’s naive and ignorant, yes, and super Christian, but I think she’s shown enough that she has a great ability to empathize with people, learn about them, and has yet to be mean to anyone.
In fact, she’s been pretty damn accepting of everyone. Confused, yes, but accepting. And most of all, very loving. She’s not gonna walk away from Ethan when he makes that face. Am I the only one who saw this kiss as a “kiss it better” or even a “you don’t disgust me and I still see you the way I say you before I knew” kiss?
^Joe.
This was enough of a twist for me to comment here for the first time ever. Well done, sir. Well done indeed.
Just when I start thinking Joyce’s HusbandQuest is going to get less trainwrecky, it goes off in the opposite direction entirely. This freaking webcomic is going to drive me out of my freaking mind.
Joyce, ZZ top called. They don’t like beards bigger than them.
TBH, I figure the reason Willis used Joyce’s face in the third panel, is to point out that this is how she feels, and that she can actually empathize with Ethan in this regard. No idea on the kiss.
If Joyce thinks Ethan wants to keep dating her, she’s well-within her rights. He did, after all, say: “I won’t blame you if you want to leave me,” which pretty clearly indicates that HE isn’t planning on ending their relationship.
Aww….the old myth that being an overly-emotional tragic soul will actually make you attractive to a woman. 😉
I swear, these comments reach “Tumblr nightblogging” level of deepness.
Ethan, you are AWFUL at being gay.
Step one: Smooch guys.
Step two: Repeat.
Jodie Dallas is better at being gay than Ethan.
no stupid girl, why did you kiss him ಥ_ಥ
Thus begins the relationship based on a mutual revulsion toward fuckin’.
I guess denialist self-loathing is a bit of a turn-on for her. I wish I could say I was surprised.