Funny thing, I tended to hear a voice while reading Sal’s line all to similar to Applejack’s before even knowing there was and Applejack. Or that people with a southern accent could distincly sound like that.
Not quite :P, the otaku (at least in western terms) are hardcore anime/manga fans who also collect all the extra merch like figurines, cards and other junk, it’s so expensive you cannot afford to do drugs.
As long as the girls remember where the bathroom is, I kinda like them!
As for the herbavore, it may finally be time to reconsider Japan!
It’s like Ball State for guys willing to put up with $10 food on the $1 menu. >>>Sōshoku danshi are often given as the primary cause of single women’s woes.
If so many Japanese Herivore men are not interested in Japanese women,that means that if you are a gajin (foreigner), you are more likely to score than ever before.
What? I thought the shallowest of otaku stereotypes are those twits who send death threats to Hideaki Anno because the ending of NGE and those losers in one of those harem anime.
It’s some graphic novel or other that turned to anime that was a harem genre. Apperently you could die a number of gruesome deaths in the novel and in the anime the guy dies. I thought it might have fit the bill for the second thing you were talking about.
Well usually if this were anyone else there would probably be a lot of outrage regarding the comments that Joyce made but i think regular readers are just use to this sort of dialogue coming from Joyce . Of course it doesn’t make right and if Joyce were real we just be enabling her, nut this is just entertaining comic strip so there no need for that. But if your willing and able to explain why Joyce is very very wrong by all means please do so and don’t let my comments stop you. I am going to scream into a pillow for undisclosed reason.
Well you see, this, to most, is apperently passable. However, as soon as religion comes into play, nine times out of ten it will turn into a flame war with the reasonable and unreasonable. But it’s like one of those games where the winners are those that don’t play.
Not actually sure if that was all a completely coherent and related thought.
I mean seriously, Dorothy and Amber are nearly identical physically and Joyce and Robin have similar hair styles. The only difference is Robin’s ignorance is willful whereas Joyce is just naïve.
I believe that’s the form of ignorance we call “naivete.” This version of Joyce has been an excellent representation of honest, well-meaning conservative Christians in virtually all respects, as opposed to the other kind we usually see (or we get Flanders ). I don’t belong in that category myself, but people like Joyce are far from unusual in real life. It’s been nice to see an example that people from other walks of life can somewhat understand and identity with.
Keep in mind that part of her is autobiographical of a stage in the author’s life. I would love to know where the strip is materialising from if Willisisn’t real.
I really don’t like this progression. Ethan is going to pretend to like a girl so he’ll feel better? That’s extremely selfish, and it’s putting Joyce in a situation where she might get really hurt
In this case it’s even worse than that. It cripples men in the sense that they can’t even look at the doll aisle in a grocery store without feeling embarrassed. I used to be like that, now I’ll even stop and look at the dolls if I see something interesting or unusual. I’ve even seen people call men who have typically feminine interests pedophiles; it’s like these people don’t even have a cortex.
There doesn’t seem to be a counterpart for women… at worst, if a woman likes masculine things, she’s a “tomboy.”
I’d say it’s more likely a form of misogyny.
Mainly since a woman/girl likes “crossgender” things, she is becoming more masculine, and society sees masculine as the “good” way to be.
If a man/boy has crossgender” interests, he is becoming more feminine, which is viewed as a bad thing because society sees female-coded things as overall lesser or inferior to male-coded things. Going from feminine to masculine is a status rise under that, while going from masculine to feminine is a status fall.
I do see your point in that it disproportionately affects guys, but I don’t think misandry is the root cause.
And as RWJ said, when gender-nonconforming behavior reaches a certain point, the homophobia (based on stereotypes of sexuality) and transphobia kick in.
Well, I would say that misandry and misogyny go hand in hand. Males are looked down upon when they do anything that breaks the masculine character while women are encouraged to take on what society has deemed masculine roles. While it is encouraged for women to “go it alone” to define their individuality by new age feminist standards and frowned upon otherwise. Men are seen as needing to preserve their masculinity to have any kind of respect (think the term “man up”), but men also must show a kind of subserviance to women. Men are also expected to settle down and are deemed less masculine by new age feminist thought if they do not do so.
This is all generally speaking of course and I might be off a little. But I have recently been reading articles involving these dilemmas.
Misogyny does have a role to play in this, but I mentioned the misandry aspect because it is nearly completely overlooked in United States society and some fucked up laws have come about because of it.
I would really like to continue this discussion, though this sight may not be the place to continue since we will move on to related topics of the next comic. I really like seeing other points of view on the subject as to expand my knowledge on the subject. This is because most articles on the subject I have read try to show the misandric side of society, though one of them was very well sourced and helped show me how the misandry also helps to further misogyny.
Though I never really talk about being wrong. Just that this subject is largly ignored and tried giving some of the concepts involved that can be swapped almost hand in hand with the other side thats got the spotlight. Both are serious issues.
You see, I feel like we’re looking at this from slightly different perspectives. I agree that it leads to a disproportionate effect on the male-assigned-at-birth, which you could arguably call misandry.
I see the terms as being more about the overall views of society. This is because we see things coded as male as “better” than things coded as female. I don’t see why it can’t be misogyny and still harm the male assigned and identified at all though.
I don’t think it’s the right term; homophobic links to an irrational fear of gay people. Joyce thinks in stupid stereotypes in this strip, but she hardly can be called homophobic.
The first definition I ever encountered for that was an irrational fear of people who share your gender. So boys who are afraid of other boys and such. Pretty sure that was an outdated text I was reading though.
It’s sort of odd. It’s based on a stereotyped view of sexuality that’s associated with homophobia in general, but I’m not sure what I’d say.
There’s also the issue of whether homophobia and the related terms are technical phobias, which i’d say they aren’t. Most of the time it’s more associate with a strong dislike/hatred of people/a group because of the characteristic mentioned.
(technically, homophobia means “fear of the same,” so gangler’s definition seems accurate in that sense)
Homophobia has strayed pretty far from its etymological origin. The proper word here is definitely homophobic, at least as much as if she was saying “girl” instead of “gay” it would be sexist.
Not good God-fearing heterosexual women anyway. Starts with the masterbation, then the premarital hanky panky, and then Bam! Gay! Slippery slope don’tcha know?
She is just a girl starting to experience the real world who was raised in the sheltered life her parents created where everyone fits certain stereotypes.
When she says things like this I want to smack her parents.
Wait a minute – Dorothy was going to go back to church with Joyce next week, until Ethan showed up to take her place? Why? Did her promise to go to church with Joyce mean she had to go to church with her forever?
It’s basically one of those pacts where you take up the job for eternity until some hapless rube can be tricked into taking your place. Like Finn with the meteor after learning all that magic. Dorothy got lucky. Ethan will be less so.
After I got over Joyce’s should-have-been-expected ignorance, I found myself immediately offended by Dorothy’s assumption that any man who doesn’t leer is gay.
I’m tired of the widespread belief that no straight guy can have a nonsexual interest in a woman – that we’re either a sexual interest or we don’t register as friends at all.
I genuinely believe that a heterosexual man can be friends with a female human being without it being about sex at all. Case in point: brothers. But even without the inoculation of growing up in the same family, it’s possible. I have to believe that.
Cus people started believing the few (and very loud) feminazis that are in no way a representation to true feminist values. That’s what I’ve come to believe anyway.
Well, gotta give Dorothy some slack. All she knows about Ethan is Joyce’s description, and she probably concludes that “gay” is more likely than “asexual”.
Why does a guy have to be gay or asexual to not leer at a woman though? That’s what bugs me. A guy can be into ladies and not want to bang everything with a vagina. >.<
….you see. It’s things like that, that lead to so many misunderstandings. So many “christians”, and others believe that if you are gay you play with girly stuff. *facepalm* This is why as a christian I would love to hit Joyce slightly on the head. Oh Joyce, so naive, and Dorothy’s look is the same as my own. 😀
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Boy is Joyce in for a surprise, lol.
Teeheehee… IT BEGINS!
This is called dramatic irony, kiddies.
is……is that a pony
That´s not just ANY pony, Zoey. That is BEST PONY! 😀
Actually, Twilight is best pony in my book, but since this is about Applejack i gonna let that slide. ^^
Oh dear me no. This is the best pony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3qS0odekuU
Giving points to Tualha here. That is one of my favorite videos ever.
That is the best pony ever….. of all time.
I vote Sodomuffin as the best pony.
No, you were right the first time. Applejack is, indeed, best pony.
Am I the only one who always reads Sal’s lines in Applejack’s voice?
I read Sal’s lines in Patti Mayonnaise’s voice.
Funny thing, I tended to hear a voice while reading Sal’s line all to similar to Applejack’s before even knowing there was and Applejack. Or that people with a southern accent could distincly sound like that.
Incidentally, when I first saw Applejack in MLP:FiM I immediately thought of Sal.
Her voice in my head is closer to Rogues, lol.
Well, I will NOW, dammit!
Appledash is best pony 😉
Just spent half a minute scouring the comic for a pony.
Run your curser over the trash can in the 3rd panel.
SOUP’S ON, EVERYPONY!
Er… no effect.
They all look like glorified glue ingredents to me.
*Dives behind the bar*
You’re thinking of Smithers, Joyce.
Wait, if she was thinking of Smithers, wouldn’t she have said “Malibu Stacy,” not “Barbie”?
Well it has been a long time since I last saw that episode.
For the last time Joyce, they’re not toys, they’re COLLECTIBLE FIGURINES!
I thought that only remains true as long as they stay inside the box they came in.
If it stays in the box, you can’t pose it.
Oh you’re talking about those models like you see in those hardcore otaku bedrooms.
Don’t know what you’re talking about. I actually pose my action figures(when I still had room for them).
You must be talking about Gunplas.
Otaku is the one with the tentacles, right?
Not quite :P, the otaku (at least in western terms) are hardcore anime/manga fans who also collect all the extra merch like figurines, cards and other junk, it’s so expensive you cannot afford to do drugs.
But if it’s out of the box, it will loses its value or so I’ve been told.
If none of them leave the box, the value won’t increase. Ethan’s being considerate of the collectors looking for a payday.
Hear hear!
Rrrrriiiiigggghhhhtttt and G.I. Joe is an action figure.
Um hello Joyce, Primal is like the barbie of transformers.
Duh.
I don’t know Joyce he might have other reasons to want to go to church. Jesus is pretty fit
Haha I commented before checking out Shortpacked
Jews don’t believe in Jesus tho.
We believe in him, just not in Him.
I don’t believe in Kratos, Batman or your favourite fictional bad-ass but I still think they’re fit.
I believe in Batman.
But I can’t believe that Lady Gaga married him, no matter what she names her albums.
I smell shenanigans!
” I swear to God I’m going to pistol whip the next guy who says, ‘Shenanigans.'”
Shenanigans!
Prepare to be pistol whipped.
“Hey Farva! What’s the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy shit on the walls and the mozzarella sticks?”
You mean Shenanigans?
Hey Farva . . . .
Evil shenanigans.
Hey remember the smiley face on the bottom left corner of the page?
Yeah, course you do.
Yeah, what about it?
It’s Stephen Stills!
Nope, Chuck Testa.
I’ve never seen that before! I feel like I’m part of the club now….
I think it’s counting pageviews. Now that I know this, I can’t stop thinking about how it just keeps watching me.
If Ethan was Japanese, his behaviour might indicate that he is one of those Herbivore men.
Or that creepy middle aged men who’s obsessed with school girls. Don’t ask me how I know these things.
How do you know these things?
I said don’t ask me.
As long as the girls remember where the bathroom is, I kinda like them!
As for the herbavore, it may finally be time to reconsider Japan!
It’s like Ball State for guys willing to put up with $10 food on the $1 menu.
>>>Sōshoku danshi are often given as the primary cause of single women’s woes.
If so many Japanese Herivore men are not interested in Japanese women,that means that if you are a gajin (foreigner), you are more likely to score than ever before.
You don’t want to know how he knows mechaqua, trust me on this. 😀
Seriously, he’s pistol whipped people for asking.
Why would anyone ask how you know about the shallowest, top layer of otaku stereotypes? Dig deeper, and we’ll talk.
What? I thought the shallowest of otaku stereotypes are those twits who send death threats to Hideaki Anno because the ending of NGE and those losers in one of those harem anime.
Happy Days?
Huh?
It’s some graphic novel or other that turned to anime that was a harem genre. Apperently you could die a number of gruesome deaths in the novel and in the anime the guy dies. I thought it might have fit the bill for the second thing you were talking about.
I’ve always thought he’s more like Korean.
Wouldn’t being Korean be Faz’ job?
Silly Joyce, it would have been a G.I. Joe with the clothes ripped off…
Well usually if this were anyone else there would probably be a lot of outrage regarding the comments that Joyce made but i think regular readers are just use to this sort of dialogue coming from Joyce . Of course it doesn’t make right and if Joyce were real we just be enabling her, nut this is just entertaining comic strip so there no need for that. But if your willing and able to explain why Joyce is very very wrong by all means please do so and don’t let my comments stop you. I am going to scream into a pillow for undisclosed reason.
not sure why i put nut in there.
people usually aren’t.
Well you see, this, to most, is apperently passable. However, as soon as religion comes into play, nine times out of ten it will turn into a flame war with the reasonable and unreasonable. But it’s like one of those games where the winners are those that don’t play.
Not actually sure if that was all a completely coherent and related thought.
I think Joyce is confusing gay with sissies.
Because the measure of a man is his interests, not his honor or confidence or anything like that.
Well, yeah, obviously.
Personally I like to entertain the idea that football is a girly-man sport, just because of the entertaining images that brings to mind.
You’re measuring it wrong.
I think he’s being facetious.
How long has it been since classes started?
How many horrible experiences is Joyce going to go through before the semester is over?
One week, I think. This is the first Sunday.
i’d answer the second question, but they haven’t invented that number yet
Unless that Barbie is the Batgirl one… and that doesn’t have to do anything with his gayness… still so much to learn Joyce XD
…I’m getting the oddest feeling of déjà vu.
I mean seriously, Dorothy and Amber are nearly identical physically and Joyce and Robin have similar hair styles. The only difference is Robin’s ignorance is willful whereas Joyce is just naïve.
Joyce, your sheltered home-schooling is showing!
Wait… Were her brothers homeschooled as well?
I love how Joyce can simultaneously be likable and considerate and horribly, horribly ignorant in the same strip.
I believe that’s the form of ignorance we call “naivete.” This version of Joyce has been an excellent representation of honest, well-meaning conservative Christians in virtually all respects, as opposed to the other kind we usually see (or we get Flanders ). I don’t belong in that category myself, but people like Joyce are far from unusual in real life. It’s been nice to see an example that people from other walks of life can somewhat understand and identity with.
>>an excellent representation of honest, well-meaning conservative Christians in virtually all respects
Which is why that fantasy is part of a comic strip, also defined as fantasy!
Keep in mind that part of her is autobiographical of a stage in the author’s life. I would love to know where the strip is materialising from if Willisisn’t real.
C’mon, Dorothy, don’t you know ANYTHING!?
Oi… *laughs* It’s funny because it’s so stupid.
This is getting to be even more of a riot, from day to day. Talk about a progression in hilarity and foreshadowing!
Dotty’s gaydar has stolen all the power from Amber’s. She was able to pull a read off of someone else’s second meeting impression.
Oh Joyce. Your misfortune is our entertainment.
As an aside; Dorothy know what up. She really is Mirror verse Amber.
Shouldn’t she be evil, what with the Mirror verse and all?
She has no goatee therefore she can’t be evil.
Unless she shaved her pubes into a goatee… 😛
Now you did it. I just sat there for a moment and said: “Was zur Hölle?”
Comments like yours makes me all warm inside. >:D
I dunno Joyce, I mean. I’m pretty sure I’m a chick and I have a bunch of Power Rangers toys in my room.
Wait, what point was I trying to make?
That you’re not a lesbian… I think.
You’re PRETTY SURE you’re a chick, so you’re not certain then? :O
inb4 gays have ponies
I really don’t like this progression. Ethan is going to pretend to like a girl so he’ll feel better? That’s extremely selfish, and it’s putting Joyce in a situation where she might get really hurt
Such is the effect of Mike interacting with the world. He leaves a trail of pain and chaos behind him where’ere he goes.
Hence why the closet is not a good thing, it’s just bad for everyone involved.
Joyce, honey, you tire me..
And he didn’t try to do something about my hair -once-!
*facepalm* Oh Joyce…you sweet summer child…. -_____-
Ah, Joyce. Still so naive in the ways of homosexuals like us. XD Maybe Ethan can teach her the joys of yaoi? ;D
Oh Joyce, when will you learn that stereotypes aren’t always true?
In this case it’s even worse than that. It cripples men in the sense that they can’t even look at the doll aisle in a grocery store without feeling embarrassed. I used to be like that, now I’ll even stop and look at the dolls if I see something interesting or unusual. I’ve even seen people call men who have typically feminine interests pedophiles; it’s like these people don’t even have a cortex.
There doesn’t seem to be a counterpart for women… at worst, if a woman likes masculine things, she’s a “tomboy.”
It’s called misandry and double standards.
I’d say it’s more likely a form of misogyny.
Mainly since a woman/girl likes “crossgender” things, she is becoming more masculine, and society sees masculine as the “good” way to be.
If a man/boy has crossgender” interests, he is becoming more feminine, which is viewed as a bad thing because society sees female-coded things as overall lesser or inferior to male-coded things. Going from feminine to masculine is a status rise under that, while going from masculine to feminine is a status fall.
I do see your point in that it disproportionately affects guys, but I don’t think misandry is the root cause.
And as RWJ said, when gender-nonconforming behavior reaches a certain point, the homophobia (based on stereotypes of sexuality) and transphobia kick in.
Well, I would say that misandry and misogyny go hand in hand. Males are looked down upon when they do anything that breaks the masculine character while women are encouraged to take on what society has deemed masculine roles. While it is encouraged for women to “go it alone” to define their individuality by new age feminist standards and frowned upon otherwise. Men are seen as needing to preserve their masculinity to have any kind of respect (think the term “man up”), but men also must show a kind of subserviance to women. Men are also expected to settle down and are deemed less masculine by new age feminist thought if they do not do so.
This is all generally speaking of course and I might be off a little. But I have recently been reading articles involving these dilemmas.
Misogyny does have a role to play in this, but I mentioned the misandry aspect because it is nearly completely overlooked in United States society and some fucked up laws have come about because of it.
I would really like to continue this discussion, though this sight may not be the place to continue since we will move on to related topics of the next comic. I really like seeing other points of view on the subject as to expand my knowledge on the subject. This is because most articles on the subject I have read try to show the misandric side of society, though one of them was very well sourced and helped show me how the misandry also helps to further misogyny.
If only there were a place in this world where dudes could talk unencumbered about how they were wronged.
Other than, y’know, everywhere, all the time.
ya, I know.
Though I never really talk about being wrong. Just that this subject is largly ignored and tried giving some of the concepts involved that can be swapped almost hand in hand with the other side thats got the spotlight. Both are serious issues.
*wronged*
You see, I feel like we’re looking at this from slightly different perspectives. I agree that it leads to a disproportionate effect on the male-assigned-at-birth, which you could arguably call misandry.
I see the terms as being more about the overall views of society. This is because we see things coded as male as “better” than things coded as female. I don’t see why it can’t be misogyny and still harm the male assigned and identified at all though.
Thank you so much for your response. I see where your coming from and I definitely agree.
No, at worst, she’s called butch and then a string of homophobic slurs.
“Woulda been a barbie doll”
THAT’S RACIST!
wait, no that’s not it. . .THAT’S SEXIST!
No, not it either. . .what IST is it?
…Toyist?
…homophobic? There, uh, is kind of a word for that kind of prejudice…
I don’t think it’s the right term; homophobic links to an irrational fear of gay people. Joyce thinks in stupid stereotypes in this strip, but she hardly can be called homophobic.
The first definition I ever encountered for that was an irrational fear of people who share your gender. So boys who are afraid of other boys and such. Pretty sure that was an outdated text I was reading though.
It’s sort of odd. It’s based on a stereotyped view of sexuality that’s associated with homophobia in general, but I’m not sure what I’d say.
There’s also the issue of whether homophobia and the related terms are technical phobias, which i’d say they aren’t. Most of the time it’s more associate with a strong dislike/hatred of people/a group because of the characteristic mentioned.
(technically, homophobia means “fear of the same,” so gangler’s definition seems accurate in that sense)
Homophobia has strayed pretty far from its etymological origin. The proper word here is definitely homophobic, at least as much as if she was saying “girl” instead of “gay” it would be sexist.
Plasticist
smh Joyce, bless her heart
joyce’s gaydar: fully functional, although we’ve got a serious case of operator error here…
If Joyce assumed gay guys play with Barbies, what does she assume lesbian play with?
Themselves *hears boos from the crowd*
Wait: so, heterosexual women don’t play with themselves???
Not good God-fearing heterosexual women anyway. Starts with the masterbation, then the premarital hanky panky, and then Bam! Gay! Slippery slope don’tcha know?
Ah, the ol’ masturbation leading to premarital sex trick.
Or as they call it in Australia, hanky wanky.
I only heard of the hairy hands and blindness for masterbation.
You forgot Tenosynovitis.
Nope, never heard of it.
I know many straight men who love and obsess over ponies… I don’t think the toy matters.
She is just a girl starting to experience the real world who was raised in the sheltered life her parents created where everyone fits certain stereotypes.
When she says things like this I want to smack her parents.
I’ll bet we can all still find some stereotypes in our heads if we look hard enough.
Every time I grow to tolerate Joyce, I remember she’s… Joyce.
Wait a minute – Dorothy was going to go back to church with Joyce next week, until Ethan showed up to take her place? Why? Did her promise to go to church with Joyce mean she had to go to church with her forever?
It’s basically one of those pacts where you take up the job for eternity until some hapless rube can be tricked into taking your place. Like Finn with the meteor after learning all that magic. Dorothy got lucky. Ethan will be less so.
Wouldn’t it have been a Ken doll?
Joyce, you need to brush up your gay. Ms Bean would probably be willing to give you some private lessons.
After I got over Joyce’s should-have-been-expected ignorance, I found myself immediately offended by Dorothy’s assumption that any man who doesn’t leer is gay.
I’m tired of the widespread belief that no straight guy can have a nonsexual interest in a woman – that we’re either a sexual interest or we don’t register as friends at all.
I genuinely believe that a heterosexual man can be friends with a female human being without it being about sex at all. Case in point: brothers. But even without the inoculation of growing up in the same family, it’s possible. I have to believe that.
Why do people insist it’s not?
Cus people started believing the few (and very loud) feminazis that are in no way a representation to true feminist values. That’s what I’ve come to believe anyway.
Well, gotta give Dorothy some slack. All she knows about Ethan is Joyce’s description, and she probably concludes that “gay” is more likely than “asexual”.
Why does a guy have to be gay or asexual to not leer at a woman though? That’s what bugs me. A guy can be into ladies and not want to bang everything with a vagina. >.<
And yes, I am aware of how that sounds coming from my gravatar.
I don’t know; you probably should ask Dorothy, since she’s the one who obviously assumes so ;3
….you see. It’s things like that, that lead to so many misunderstandings. So many “christians”, and others believe that if you are gay you play with girly stuff. *facepalm* This is why as a christian I would love to hit Joyce slightly on the head. Oh Joyce, so naive, and Dorothy’s look is the same as my own. 😀
Nonsense, Joyce.
Heck, if I’m anything to go by any Barbie doll in my hand would be headless or soon-to-be-headless.
A Barbie doll in my hand would be a lesbian.
And I’m a gay guy, so I don’t know what that says about me.
Lesbians are just nifty.
Is there a full moon tonight?
Slutt, not Munky!!
As a gay man who…coincidentally played with barbies just as much as legos as a kid…no comment.
Joyce mentions he seems to have no interest in hanky-panky and Dorothy’s first assumption is “gay” rather than “asexual”. I am disappointed.
At this rate, joyce Is better of not dateing tilll she’s 22
FACEPALM!
*snerk*
I hope that in gender studies Joyce learns the difference between gay and transgender.