And here I thought what she did showed massive amounts of maturity. She wasn’t exactly sorry he got the hell beat out of him, but she wasn’t going to act like a massive temper-tantrum throwing brat the entire time.
It does kind of remind you how inexperienced she is with the opposite sex. She really didn’t know what she was getting into. I still think she needs an attitude adjustment, but now I kind of feel sorry for her.
Joe will, most likely, will follow her and explain why the night went bad. As much as a sex-hound Joe is, this arc has shown that Joe has a lot of restraint and able to try and act like a gentleman, so he can be civil about things.
Good god it was hard writing that without sexual innuendo in it.
Joe will act like a gentleman as far as it furthers his goals to get laid. His plan was to be a perfect gentleman, and woo her into bed with his charm, but his plan was rendered useless by her religiosity and Mike. He did not have a backup plan. And Mike is a huge asshole.
It’s true that Joe will behave however he needs to in order to get laid. However, if he’s anything like Joe Prime (admittedly, most of the characters we’ve met so far in DoA are at least a little less pleasant than their Roomies counterparts), there’s a decent person under the horndoggery. Whether that translates into following the violent fanatic and explaining to her that it’s pretty much all her fault that the evening went poorly is another question.
In terms of long terms plans though it’s almost in his best interests to patch things up- one bad strike, especially so early on even on just hear-say can mean he’s looking at a lonely few months if not longer. (I guess it depends if he’s unlucky enough to strike out a second time too soon afterwards).
This is directed at katosen27 but you said ‘arc’, ‘restraint’ and ‘things’ so it still has innuendo in there. A true perv can make anything sound pervy :P.
Anyway i like joyce and i feel bad her date didn’t go as planned. However things can be expected when you put together a punchy chaperone, a sex hound guy and a religious zealot girl. The only other way this would’ve turned out is daddy’s little girl would’ve had her heart broken or turned into a tramp. I don’t know what to say about this. Plenty of good comments in my opinion and i don’t understand the joyce hate. I like how she’s such a dork but some of what she says would piss me off in real life. I kind of want to hate Joe but i can’t hate him either when he’s been fleshed out a bit.
Actually, I’m thinking something like a brother/sister relationship. He seems like the type that once he gets past wanting to bang a chick, he’ll be there for her to protect and support her, like an older brother.
She’s been hopeful. Affectionate. Apologetic. Flustered. She’d been listening to Joe express a view she’s been taught to find repugnant, right up until Mike started punching him. Were the first words out of her mouth in reaction to that judgmental or offensive.
The “nothing but” standard was not even close to being met.
Let’s see. She’d been hopeful that she could force Joe into changing his religion for her, because she was judgmental of that religion. She’d been hopeful that she could force two adults she’s never met back into marriage, despite Joe (who knew both very well) warning her it was a bad idea, because she was judgmental of their divorce. She was apologetic and flustered because her date ended up in pain after being punched repeatedly by a man she brought along for the express purpose of punching those who did not adhere to a portion of her judgmental worldview.
Nope. Joyce Prime was never one of my favourite characters, but I can’t even *stand* DoA Joyce. This sort of passive-aggressive bullshit merely makes me hate her even more.
And thus we look into the psychotomy that is Joyce. Interesting contrast between two forms of objectification by individuals that might yet get to know each other as people.
“Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now BACK TO ME, sadly he isnt me, but if he started working in an engine-oil-intensive environment and wearing flourescently coloured shirts, he could seem like he IS me. Look down, back up, Where are you? You’re in a sentient Hybrid automobile, with the man your man could be like. What’s that in your hand, back at me, I have it, it’s an Ipad with two file-shared seasons of that Anime you love, now look again, the Ipad is now POCKY. Everything is possible when your man smells like Old Spice and not a doofus.
I think you’ve all missed the most important thought point of this story arc. What you should ask yourself is, “Did Mike Joe Conquest” (with his penis) and how will that will affect his future gigs as a chaperone?
While Joyce might try and act nice here at the end, it’s kind of hard to see her as a nice person, considering the fact that she joined in on the shit-kicking that Mike gave Joe. Despite the fact that this is a comic, (where crazy shite takes place), I still don’t quite get why Joe would put up with Mike punching him in the face for so long, or at all really.
Not hard at all. A nice person isn’t always going to act nice. It goes with being a complex individual, especially when crazy and sheltered are part of the mix.
You’re right. She’s not in the same category as Mike. She’s worse, as the person who lets the mad dog off it’s chain is worse than the mad dog itself.
“Keep your thoughts clean” = “Please stop swearing while you get punched in the face.” Right. And remember, his swearing was more of a concern to her than Mike’s punching.
If Mike was really a mad dog, he wouldn’t be allowed out in public. Joe also wouldn’t have survived, “Get him,” looking as he does.
“Keep your thoughts clean.” = “Stop showing red to the bull.”
Considering that she only yelled, “Language!” the second time Joe swore, and apologized the first time Mike hit him, I can’t agree with your assessment of her priorities. Telling him to watch the language IS compatible with trying to keep him from getting his again.
He shouldn’t be allowed in public, but Joyce brought him anyway.
And true, telling him to watch the language is compatible with trying to keep him from getting hit again – but then, telling Mike to stop hitting him might stop Joe from swearing. But of course, Joyce has her priorities.
Sorry. Not. Nice. Person. May someday become one, but not now.
A nice person isn’t going to bring a third person along on a date without letting their date know beforehand. A nice person will definitely not bring along someone to punch their date. And a nice person will not try to push their worldview on someone else.
So how would you define a nice person? I would define it as a person who does nice things, but Joyce hasn’t done nice things in this story arc. In fact, I seem to recall that the very man Joyce follows so fervently would agree. “By their fruit you will know them.” If you want to argue that Joyce is a nice person, a good person, then you need to come up with some evidence to support that claim pretty quickly. Everything I’ve seen has shown otherwise.
Sure she has. Acting with good intention is nice, even if the results are, and I use this word intentionally, damnably poor.
Trying to bring lovers and parents back together again is a nice thing. Without context, it is also a foolish thing to do. When he told her it was a bad idea, she listened to his explanation, was saddened by it…and then promptly blundered into a Pollyanna note. Nice? Yes. Dumb? Oh, yes.
Bringing an escort along a date with a stranger? Regular check calls to a contact should have been sufficient, sure. Nevertheless, she made it clear, right up front, that Joyce was not looking for a sexual encounter here. She showed concern when Mike first hit Joe (and he had it coming) and apologized, but she made her reasons for needing the escort.
Joe could have walked away at the start of the evening, or once he’d been punched for trying to bribe Mike–after he’d been warned about the “inappropriate behaviour” clause. He could have not stared at Connie’s chest, not that he deserved to be hit for that.
Joyce was nice enough to provide him with an out from the start of the date. Instead, Joe kept trying to ditch her security detail (the last time in plain view of her, no less), seeking the chance to get her alone. Mike exploited that, just as he exploited every word (many of them stupid) that came out of Joe’s mouth. He exploited Joyce’s state of mind to get a chance to keep beating on Joe.
It was not nice of Joyce to tell Mike to do that, but that’s it. Up until then, she was actively trying her best to be considerate toward an operator.
She was way too nice for what he’d deserved up until then.
*Shrug*. Even if every word you type is correct, she lost her “nice person” qualifications when she started beating on a helpless man who was already on the floor. With help. And claimed that it was the Lord’s will because he was a lecher. Sorry, she’s a violent, preachy coward now.
He was down on the floor, stunned by Mike’s punch. That’s not a very good situation for fighting back.
Comedic sociopathy only works if you want the character to be utterly unsympathetic. If you try to make us feel sorry for them immediately after, both fail.
I totally agree. And know from experience. I may seem nice and shy and quiet, but if you make me mad, I will not hesitate to let you know what I think in the loudest, most obnoxious, most violent way possible. And I live a very sheltered(and crazy) life. My mom STILL tries to cover my eyes when a naked woman comes onto the screen in a movie. AND I’M A 20 YEAR OLD FEMALE!!! -.-
Another vote for how this doesn’t make Joyce any less of a train wreck. I don’t hate her or anything, but she is some messed-up puppy and a little (selfish) attempt to pretend that she didn’t nearly single-handedly destroy the evening doesn’t change that.
Yes, selfish. It’s not Joe’s feelings she’s trying to salvage by being last-minute nice, it’s her own.
Judging by her expression as she walks away, she is not trying to salvage her feelings. Her goal is selfish, but appropriately so. In the end, she didn’t wait for someone else to bring something better to the night. Handling it as badly as she is just makes it realistic.
This was not the objectification she and Joe were practicing earlier. That was a recipe for mutual disaster, as we’ve seen. Now to see if they’ll learn anything from it.
Any date where a guy has been hired to punch you in the face if you behave in a way that she does not appreciate is a date with a Crazy Woman, even if she is cute and misunderstood. Unless you’re a masochist, in which case it’s love at first sight, and time for wacky hijinks!
Since she was surprised and apologetic when he did hit Joe, it’s pretty clear that she’d never expected it would happen. Naive, sure, but she only asked for Joe to be hit once.
While he only deserved to be punched once, Joe was the one asking for it every other time.
No, he literally requested it. Knowing the terms, he tried to bribe a guard to abandon his charge, made it clear he was thinking inappropriate thoughts (by the terms set forth for Mike) every seven seconds, and actively stared at someone’s chest..
Mike had him on a technicality on two of those punches, but he set himself up every time.
Spare me. Keep arguing how Joe deserved it if you want, but the fact remains that Joyce brought along someone she knew agreed to the job purely because he wanted an opportunity to punch someone in the face. If she didn’t think he’d be looking for the opportunity, she’s bonehead stupid. Is that what you’re saying?
This situation reminds me of a scene in the Incredibles, where Helen stretches her neck to tower above Bob, shouting, “This. Is. Not. About. You!”
Joyce took a stand for herself. Realistically, it was inexcusable, but compare it to Mike’s behaviour–and the free pass he’s getting, because people expect that of him.
It’s not about Joyce, then. It’s about what people expect of her.
If she’d handled Joe well, it wouldn’t have been Joyce. If she’d been played by Joe, there’d be little hope of redeeming him. We got the third option, wherein she plays into the rules of her universe. We’re shown someone Joe cannot push around without her being idealized into something she’s not.
If we’re lucky, they’ll grow out of this. If we’re really lucky, that will occur along a very winding path.
Took a stand for herself? Against what? The closest Joe got to “pushing her around” was asking what was wrong with Lust. He spent the whole rest of the date ducking her conversion attempts, dissuading her plans to get his parents back together, and gettting punched in the face.
As for Mike, well, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing someone hit him back at some point (he doesn’t have super strength in this universe, after all), but that’s beside the point. Do you really want Joyce in the comedic sociopath category with Mike?
She took a stand against Joe’s predatory nature. He knew she wasn’t looking for the same thing he was, but he went after it anyway. He’s shown himself willing to exploit her long term goals in pursuit of his short term goals, with no regard toward the former beyond that.
They’re so similar it’s not funny. Neither of them was interested in the other person so much as what the means to an end presented here. Both of them went into this with the intention of changing the other person’s life.
Seriously, a couple of cartoon blows to the head are nothing compared to the rest of the crap they’ve been flinging at each other.
Joyce didn’t know anything about that, so she couldn’t possibly have been taking a stand against it. Joe may have shown US that he’s a predator, but Joyce didn’t know. She would have done the same to Danny.
Danny wouldn’t have tried to bribe Mike. Danny wouldn’t have tried to ditch Joyce’s escort at the retaurant. Danny wouldn’t have diverted the subject at the table in such a manipulative fashion.
Well, as you originally said, her reaction was still inexcusable, and now she’s the one who’s going to be hard to redeem. This strip doesn’t even come close. Is that better somehow?
Mike is beyond redemption, and he doesn’t want it anyway. And yes, once you’ve taken part in beating on someone while he’s down, you need to be redeemed.
And no, she’s not ruined – by definition, if someone can still be redeemed, they’re not ruined. It’ll just take a lot more than this.
Not if Joe’s expression is any indicator. Whether this goes anywhere between them or not (and I’d expect that to take months), it’s made an impression on him.
I’m just hoping it’s one that does both of them some good in the long run, whether they get together or end the series as avowed polyamorous celibates.
I think Dahlia meant for us. Joyce is going to have to do a lot more than that to escape her new classification as the crazy, dangerous, fanatical bongo.
Way to go, Joe. I can’t really say that she doesn’t deserve to be feeling bad but still, try to do something. I dunno, I’d feel bad if I let her walk away from me all sad like, but then again, I’m too nice for my own good sometimes.
So much Joyce hate… Yeah, she was crazy, and I’m not a fan of religious zealots either, but in the end, I do feel Joe was just as, if not more so guilty of this mess than Joyce. Why? Because, in spite of his hormonal fueled ways, he knew what it could become. He wanted to change her just as much as she wanted to change him. Change the sweet, naive girl into a sex kitten. College is a learning experience, an experience of tolerance for many. I live in a very conservative area and have seen girls that are surprisingly close to being like Joyce. See them a few years later after going to college, and they are almost unrecognizable. Guys like Joe, though? Very rarely is there a change. They know what they’re doing.
He knew it could become a beat-down with himself on the losing end? Somehow I doubt that.
You do have a point, that Joe wanted to change Joyce just as much as she wanted to change him, which was obnoxious in its own right. If this date had been a night of dueling conversion attempts, ending with frustration and loud arguments, then they would share the responsibility equally, and this scene would be kind of sweet. Instead, Joe barely got a word in edgewise and Joyce had Mike beat him up.
To be fair, though… She did beg Mike to stop until he pointed out that Joe had looked at Connie’s breasts. At which point it switched over to a pretty classic kind of woman scorned moment.
No, Mike only struck Joe every time the agreement allowed him to do so. True, he really stretched the point with the “seven seconds” thing, but Joe didn’t stop there. Calling out a fornicative synonym didn’t help his case (to borrow a Bill Cosby line out of context, “First you say, then you do it.”), and looking down from Connie’s eyes to her chest was just terminally stupid.
He didn’t leave because, up until Joyce lost her temper with him, he thought he had a chance of getting her alone.
Joe wanted to sleep with Joyce. No denying that. But at what point did he bully her? Did he every preach that her beliefs were wrong or did he bring someone along to bully Joyce into doing something she didn’t want to do.
Joyce has been harping on about her religion, insulting his faith, sticking her nose into his family issues, and brought along someone who she gave permission to hit her date if he did anything that wasn’t hyper-conservative. I mean, Mike began striking Joe for his personal thoughts, which lets be frank, are impossible to control. Even Joyce has had those thoughts.
Joyce is the bigger bad in this plot, because her beliefs were zealot. Joe technically did nothing wrong except hope he could sleep with her, and even then, he never pushed her.
I like Joyce, but I think that’s because I loved how her world view changed and grew in It’s Walky. I can’t wait to see how Willis handles it this time around. People aren’t born knowing how to interact with other people. They mess up and they learn from their mistakes. I don’t think Joyce is pleased with the way she handled things tonight. It looks like she’s taken her first step on the road to rethinking things.
And don’t forget what Joe’s intentions were on this date. He wanted to seduce her, knowing full well that she is a virgin and that she doesn’t believe in sex before marriage. He was being just as disrespectful of Joyce’s beliefs as she was of his. It just so happens that Joyce’s aggression came into effect before his did, so she came off looking like the bad guy.
See, we know Joe’s intentions, but Joyce didn’t. How could she? The most he got out on the subject was “What’s so bad about Lust?” Which means that she and Mike beat him up for general “hanky-pankiousness”. That’s why she looks like the bad guy.
His will was strong… Despite his intentions Joe seemed pretty gentlemanly and patient during this arc. So far, to me at least, he doesn’t seem to come off as someone who WOULD fight. Unless it was completely necessary, anyway. If you wanna get too psychology-oriented with that, maybe you could relate it to how his parents are divorced. Maybe his dad did a little more than yell sometimes.
Yeah, we know Joe wanted to have sex with Joyce, but you’ll note he never pushed her. He brought up the discussion of sexual lust not being altogether “evil” and didn’t even get that far because Mike hit him (which Joyce approved of). He didn’t bully her, or attack her or insult her. Joe Joe did nothing wrong. And for the most part, he seems respectable enough that if Joyce had told “No, I don’t want to have sex” he would have being disappointed but accepted her decision. He’s a cad, a jerk and a sexually obsessed, but he seems to have some sort of limits. Joyce meanwhile pushes her beliefs to unfair levels.
Joe never managed to get to get Joyce alone. He was out of his element the whole date because of Mike. He never had the opportunity to make his move. As far as Joyce telling him she didn’t want to have sex, how much clearer do you have to get than believing in chastity before marriage? He knew she didn’t want to have sex, and he planned to change her mind.
Joyce’s action aren’t justified, obviously, but I agree with Pinnelipe up there; she doesn’t understand why what she’s doing is wrong. She’s led a very sheltered life. In her vision of the of the world she IS doing the right thing. It’s going to take her a while to learn why it’s not. The real judge of her character is not whether or not she makes mistakes, but whether she learns from them.
Mary (from Roomies) is a good foil for Joyce. Mary is someone who had similar hang-ups as Joyce, but never stopped judging people, even after she started participating in the activities she disapproved of. Joyce, on the other hand, changed her opinions and grew as a person.
I think Joyce’s sheltered life has in retrospect done so much more harm than good in the end. Because of the certain standards set and the environment she’s been raised in, it seems as if someone like Joe is generally just a big pervert deserving of punishment. But perhaps in her Christianese way she can realise that dealing out the punishment isn’t technically her place to begin with, nor Mikes. Plus eentually realise that it is such a LITTLE thing she was punishing to begin with anyway.
But now I guess in the silence of the lift she’s starting to wonder about this at least as the rage has cooled off? Joe seemed like a nice guy overall after all before the punchings happened. She may eventually start to realise the fundy black-and-white way is just not cutting it in the real world.
Joe still has a right to be mad at her, I mean she still has to apologise in general in my view at the very least (and I think she’d mean it if she did it) but I still feel a bit sorry for her for some reason, and the last comic I was thinking “Man, what a crazy bongo”.
Then again, I’m not the best at holding grudges myself (granted apart from my sister when I was little I haven’t had physical tustles or punches really, this is more to do with people acting like bongoes in general) but I guess I’d forgive her eventually upon apology, though it would take a little while before I could consider her a friend if ever at all, but I guess I’d leave her be mostly, with however a stern warning not to pull that shit again with ANYONE except in actual self-defense and WHY it’s wrong otherwise. Plus say that the next person could report her and it’s more or less assault what she pulled and she should count herself lucky I’m letting it slide.
At the risk of defending psycho religious behavior, I have no sympathy for Joe. I mean his plan was to “fix” her with his penis, that at least to me makes him a piece of shite deserving of being punched repeatedly.
I don’t remember any situation in college that was this exaggerated, what with punching being a fairly harmful activity in the real world, but I do remember that moment of remorse and realization where you know you did something wrong.
I think Joyce and Joe are, at heart, good people. They’re just young and making young, dumb choices.
Here’s the only difference between Joyce and Joe I think really matters:
Joe would never have resorted to violence to change Joyce around.
Joyce GAVE Mike carte blanche to punch anyone getting out of line, then joined in when she got mad enough. If you can argue that Joe would have done the same thing, I would agree with the anti-Joe talk, but I have to side with him on this one.
Like so many others, I see Joyce as the bad guy in this story, not Joe. Yes, he went out with her in the hopes of sleeping with her. Well, guess what? A lot of people do that. We’re sexual beings. We like to have sex.
However, Joe never pushed her into having sex. He was respectable, he didn’t bully her or insult her beliefs or try and force her into doing something she didn’t want to do. He didn’t bring along a third party who would strike her if she spoke out of turn against his beliefs. He didn’t strike her when she spoke against her beliefs. He attempted to debate with her the idea of lust being exclusively evil. Was this done with the hopes it might convince her to sleep with him? Very possible. But at the time is was only talk, which is hardly a bad thing, since they were trying to have a conversation, and at times conversations have two opposing views.
Joyce however did all the stuff that Joe didn’t. She belittled his Jewish beliefs and has been subtly insulting them by preaching her own faith to Joe. She brought Mike along and gave him the okay to beat Joe if he did, said or even thought of something sexual. She then proceeded to attack Joe with Mike for looking at another woman (while this is tacky and rude, it is not cause for being attacked). Joyce has been the worst kind of date, regardless of upbringing, gender or faith.
I grew up with a couple of really conservative kids, and I don’t really see Joyce as belittling his Jewish faith. She’s just been taught that it’s wrong. For her, it’s like arguing with someone that gravity doesn’t exist. Of course it exists, you can see how it exists all around you. For her, the Christian God is something so fundamental that it seems bizarre for a person not to have faith in Him. She’s not belittling Joe, she’s just confused. It’s really impossible to argue with people over this. In my experience it’s best to just accept that neither of you is going to understand the other. I mean, in their world view, we’re all going to hell because we don’t believe in the exact same faith as them. They are totally clueless as to why we would want that.
I’m not saying it’s right that she thinks that way, but it’s kind of silly to get mad at someone for a belief that’s been driven into them by their families and communities.
simple thought exercize: reverse their genders…then tell me if you can still sympathize with Joyce:
girl wants to get laid, takes guy on date. guy brings violent female chaperone. any time girl talks, or thinks, about anything remotely sexual, girl gets hit. eventually both guy and violent girl are wailing on the first girl, who ends up with at least one visible bruise on her face. she is later told she smells good by the guy, who said he didn’t want the evening to end terribly.
sorry…in my book, the one that resorts to violence loses every time. joe would have tried to coerce her…but she instigated the hitting. apologies or not, she KNEW mike was only there for the chance to hit people, and he was hitting joe for thoughts. uncool. if thoughts aren’t safe, what the heck is?
This episode really impressed me, showing the characters growing into more than their stereotypes. I wasn’t prepared to like either of these characters, and I do now.
Joyce is now officially my favorite. Any room for a new character, David? I can’t believe I’m officially crushing on Joyce, haha. Great attitude, similar views, great smile, similar faith, very trustworthy, that’s exactly the same girl I’m wanting, though needs to be real…. 🙂
If by ‘Trustworthy” you mean “Will hire someone to chaperone and punch you in the face while she tries to butt into your personal life/ disrespect your religion” then yes.. ._.
Both Joe and Joyce were in the wrong. Joyce wanted to make him Christian (and described it as being “like Twilight”). Joe wanted to “fix her” with his penis. Both are pretty terrible in their own rights.
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As a consolation prize, getting punched in the face repeatedly doesn’t detract from your delectable manly scent!
And it can increase it.
MUUUUUUSK
more like bloooooood
#BLOODWOLVES
#Lustwolves
Is that. . . Penny?
I think she might have PERVERSE SEXUAL LUST
Reverse Textural Crust
Not if she bathes and douches regularly.
Douche means shower. The definition doesn’t even have to involve a cooch.
Douche is French for shower. Definitely has a different meaning in English, Darkond.
@Pagannerd,
It’s also Russian for shower.
Pretty sure it’s just general European Non-English for shower, but don’t quote me on that.
Inverse Celestial Nuts
They are so going to bang
I am weirdly supportive of this.
Aaaaand begin Joe’s secret crush on Joyce.
Hooray for Stockholm Syndrome.
Crazy bongoes be crazy.
true dat
She’s just really immature, and cannot productively cope with the real world not meeting her expectations.
Just like me and most of the people in my english class
Engrish, you mean.
What is it that EVERYONE at Universal Studios Hollywood speaks Engrish? With the exception of black guys who speak Spanglish.
And here I thought what she did showed massive amounts of maturity. She wasn’t exactly sorry he got the hell beat out of him, but she wasn’t going to act like a massive temper-tantrum throwing brat the entire time.
B’aww. So bittersweet…
Annnd there’s Joyce’s saving throw!
It’s a 1.
But it was an acting check (cute) and joyce has a +12 when playing innocent.
Mike’s Curse lowers all positive checks by 10.
Footnote: Mike’s Curse may sometimes be his fist, again.
Joe’s saving throws against female opponents are so heavily penalized that he probably failed anyway. People without Joe’s Penis Penalty? Not so much.
Still doesn’t counteract that 1! Unless we made this into a Knowledge (Adorability) check. Hmmm….
Anyone else kind of mad at Joyce for making them hate her so much, and then she pulls this?
With her penis?
Nah. I already hated her enough that this doesn’t change it one way or the other. It just makes her look kinda pathetic.
A nice parting word is not enough to retract talking mean about many people, whether she meant it not.
Talking mean about someone isn’t any worse of a mark than as a sign of immaturity (kind of a given here).
HER problem is that she’s given over to abusing others, made worse by the surrounding “bait”.
Plus you know the Physical assault, yeah saying something nice at the end does not make up for several strips of bongoy behavior >.<
It does kind of remind you how inexperienced she is with the opposite sex. She really didn’t know what she was getting into. I still think she needs an attitude adjustment, but now I kind of feel sorry for her.
I’m kinda mad that you’re usin’ MY Gravatar!
Awww she’s so nice.
After this, Joe goes back to Galasso’s and waits for Connie’s shift to end…
With his penis.
I certainly hope so.
Hope that he won’t go back to Galasso’s without his penis, I mean.
There’s always the chance that it might end up in a Sodomuffin.
Challenge! Make up a definition for “A Sodomuffin” and get it added to Urban dictionary by the end of the month. Any takers?
I’d bet Mike has already beat him to it
Nope still hate her.
Joe will, most likely, will follow her and explain why the night went bad. As much as a sex-hound Joe is, this arc has shown that Joe has a lot of restraint and able to try and act like a gentleman, so he can be civil about things.
Good god it was hard writing that without sexual innuendo in it.
Joe will act like a gentleman as far as it furthers his goals to get laid. His plan was to be a perfect gentleman, and woo her into bed with his charm, but his plan was rendered useless by her religiosity and Mike. He did not have a backup plan. And Mike is a huge asshole.
It’s true that Joe will behave however he needs to in order to get laid. However, if he’s anything like Joe Prime (admittedly, most of the characters we’ve met so far in DoA are at least a little less pleasant than their Roomies counterparts), there’s a decent person under the horndoggery. Whether that translates into following the violent fanatic and explaining to her that it’s pretty much all her fault that the evening went poorly is another question.
In terms of long terms plans though it’s almost in his best interests to patch things up- one bad strike, especially so early on even on just hear-say can mean he’s looking at a lonely few months if not longer. (I guess it depends if he’s unlucky enough to strike out a second time too soon afterwards).
Yes and no. I suspect Joyce’s reputation is already strange enough that a bad review from her might not hurt him very much.
This is directed at katosen27 but you said ‘arc’, ‘restraint’ and ‘things’ so it still has innuendo in there. A true perv can make anything sound pervy :P.
Anyway i like joyce and i feel bad her date didn’t go as planned. However things can be expected when you put together a punchy chaperone, a sex hound guy and a religious zealot girl. The only other way this would’ve turned out is daddy’s little girl would’ve had her heart broken or turned into a tramp. I don’t know what to say about this. Plenty of good comments in my opinion and i don’t understand the joyce hate. I like how she’s such a dork but some of what she says would piss me off in real life. I kind of want to hate Joe but i can’t hate him either when he’s been fleshed out a bit.
Is it just me, or is Mike the only person who actually enjoyed this date? Almost like it was planned that way…
Meh.. I’m predicting more of a friendship thing…
Actually, I’m thinking something like a brother/sister relationship. He seems like the type that once he gets past wanting to bang a chick, he’ll be there for her to protect and support her, like an older brother.
Aww. that is all.
She looks so sad in that last panel. 🙁
I have no sympathy for her. She’s been nothing but judgmental and violent all night.
Let’s see…
She’s been hopeful. Affectionate. Apologetic. Flustered. She’d been listening to Joe express a view she’s been taught to find repugnant, right up until Mike started punching him. Were the first words out of her mouth in reaction to that judgmental or offensive.
The “nothing but” standard was not even close to being met.
Make that “Where the first words…offensive?”
Let’s see. She’d been hopeful that she could force Joe into changing his religion for her, because she was judgmental of that religion. She’d been hopeful that she could force two adults she’s never met back into marriage, despite Joe (who knew both very well) warning her it was a bad idea, because she was judgmental of their divorce. She was apologetic and flustered because her date ended up in pain after being punched repeatedly by a man she brought along for the express purpose of punching those who did not adhere to a portion of her judgmental worldview.
See? “Nothing but” is entirely incorrect!
Note that half of the commentators here have no problem being judgmental of Joyce.
Yes, it’s a pointed and mostly accurate parody of strict Christianity. Doesn’t justify all of you getting your hate on.
She helped beat him up. That’s the kind of thing you get to judge.
There’s a difference between being judgmental and calling someone out on something that is not only wrong but illegal.
Nope. Joyce Prime was never one of my favourite characters, but I can’t even *stand* DoA Joyce. This sort of passive-aggressive bullshit merely makes me hate her even more.
Seconded.
And thus we look into the psychotomy that is Joyce. Interesting contrast between two forms of objectification by individuals that might yet get to know each other as people.
should have ended that on a high note..and slapped him again Joyce
you know what also smells nice? 50 MCNUGGETS!!
Alright, the whole nugget thing didn’t get me the first time round.
But now I want nuggets.
anyone else notice the bruising on joe’s face? At first I thought there was a smudge on my screen.
joe use’s ax body spray, and in that universe it actually smells good enough to justify the commercials
Impossible.
Nothing is Impossible…
With his penis
Actually, DoA Joe is the face of Old Spice.
“Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now BACK TO ME, sadly he isnt me, but if he started working in an engine-oil-intensive environment and wearing flourescently coloured shirts, he could seem like he IS me. Look down, back up, Where are you? You’re in a sentient Hybrid automobile, with the man your man could be like. What’s that in your hand, back at me, I have it, it’s an Ipad with two file-shared seasons of that Anime you love, now look again, the Ipad is now POCKY. Everything is possible when your man smells like Old Spice and not a doofus.
I’m in a giant Mecha.”
Awesome!
Joe realizes that people have feelings in 3… 2… 1…
… Nope, just gas…
I think you’ve all missed the most important thought point of this story arc. What you should ask yourself is, “Did Mike Joe Conquest” (with his penis) and how will that will affect his future gigs as a chaperone?
Even after having gone crazy, I want to hug her.
This date is going to turn Joyce into a lesbian, and then she’s going to date Leslie.
So, what did we learn? That Mike is simultaneously the best and worst person to chaperon a date.
While Joyce might try and act nice here at the end, it’s kind of hard to see her as a nice person, considering the fact that she joined in on the shit-kicking that Mike gave Joe. Despite the fact that this is a comic, (where crazy shite takes place), I still don’t quite get why Joe would put up with Mike punching him in the face for so long, or at all really.
Not hard at all. A nice person isn’t always going to act nice. It goes with being a complex individual, especially when crazy and sheltered are part of the mix.
No, I’d say pretty hard. Helping Mike with the violence puts her in the same category as Mike. Crazy and sheltered just explain WHY she’s not nice.
If it put her in the same category as Mike, then why haven’t people reacted like this to Mike?
Because we expect this of Mike and love him for it. Joyce, not so much.
Mike is a mad dog. When a mad dog bites someone, you get angry at the person who let the mad dog off his chain.
So…Joyce is not in the same category as Mike then? Which is it, please?
She asked Joe to keep his thoughts clean while she tried to restrain Mike. Considering the situation, that was only common sense.
Joe, being one-third of the comedy troupe, went out of his way to make it worse. It was not an accident on his part. He deliberately looked down.
You’re right. She’s not in the same category as Mike. She’s worse, as the person who lets the mad dog off it’s chain is worse than the mad dog itself.
“Keep your thoughts clean” = “Please stop swearing while you get punched in the face.” Right. And remember, his swearing was more of a concern to her than Mike’s punching.
If Mike was really a mad dog, he wouldn’t be allowed out in public. Joe also wouldn’t have survived, “Get him,” looking as he does.
“Keep your thoughts clean.” = “Stop showing red to the bull.”
Considering that she only yelled, “Language!” the second time Joe swore, and apologized the first time Mike hit him, I can’t agree with your assessment of her priorities. Telling him to watch the language IS compatible with trying to keep him from getting his again.
He shouldn’t be allowed in public, but Joyce brought him anyway.
And true, telling him to watch the language is compatible with trying to keep him from getting hit again – but then, telling Mike to stop hitting him might stop Joe from swearing. But of course, Joyce has her priorities.
Sorry. Not. Nice. Person. May someday become one, but not now.
And that still doesn’t explain why Joe put up with getting punched in the face even once.
A nice person isn’t going to bring a third person along on a date without letting their date know beforehand. A nice person will definitely not bring along someone to punch their date. And a nice person will not try to push their worldview on someone else.
A nice person is capable of thoughtless acts and poor judgment. A nice person is capable of pushing a worldview others don’t accept.
Nice people are not all the same. Many of them will reject the tenets of each other’s value systems entirely.
Also, Joyce did not bring Mike along for the purpose of having him beat on Joe. That argument doesn’t hold up.
So how would you define a nice person? I would define it as a person who does nice things, but Joyce hasn’t done nice things in this story arc. In fact, I seem to recall that the very man Joyce follows so fervently would agree. “By their fruit you will know them.” If you want to argue that Joyce is a nice person, a good person, then you need to come up with some evidence to support that claim pretty quickly. Everything I’ve seen has shown otherwise.
Sure she has. Acting with good intention is nice, even if the results are, and I use this word intentionally, damnably poor.
Trying to bring lovers and parents back together again is a nice thing. Without context, it is also a foolish thing to do. When he told her it was a bad idea, she listened to his explanation, was saddened by it…and then promptly blundered into a Pollyanna note. Nice? Yes. Dumb? Oh, yes.
Bringing an escort along a date with a stranger? Regular check calls to a contact should have been sufficient, sure. Nevertheless, she made it clear, right up front, that Joyce was not looking for a sexual encounter here. She showed concern when Mike first hit Joe (and he had it coming) and apologized, but she made her reasons for needing the escort.
Joe could have walked away at the start of the evening, or once he’d been punched for trying to bribe Mike–after he’d been warned about the “inappropriate behaviour” clause. He could have not stared at Connie’s chest, not that he deserved to be hit for that.
Joyce was nice enough to provide him with an out from the start of the date. Instead, Joe kept trying to ditch her security detail (the last time in plain view of her, no less), seeking the chance to get her alone. Mike exploited that, just as he exploited every word (many of them stupid) that came out of Joe’s mouth. He exploited Joyce’s state of mind to get a chance to keep beating on Joe.
It was not nice of Joyce to tell Mike to do that, but that’s it. Up until then, she was actively trying her best to be considerate toward an operator.
She was way too nice for what he’d deserved up until then.
*Shrug*. Even if every word you type is correct, she lost her “nice person” qualifications when she started beating on a helpless man who was already on the floor. With help. And claimed that it was the Lord’s will because he was a lecher. Sorry, she’s a violent, preachy coward now.
Joe is not a helpless man. He’s also looking pretty good for the beating he took.
Comedic sociopathy all round, nothing more.
He was down on the floor, stunned by Mike’s punch. That’s not a very good situation for fighting back.
Comedic sociopathy only works if you want the character to be utterly unsympathetic. If you try to make us feel sorry for them immediately after, both fail.
I totally agree. And know from experience. I may seem nice and shy and quiet, but if you make me mad, I will not hesitate to let you know what I think in the loudest, most obnoxious, most violent way possible. And I live a very sheltered(and crazy) life. My mom STILL tries to cover my eyes when a naked woman comes onto the screen in a movie. AND I’M A 20 YEAR OLD FEMALE!!! -.-
I’m just really excited to see some other characters now (or Mike again. I can always go for some Mike).
Another vote for how this doesn’t make Joyce any less of a train wreck. I don’t hate her or anything, but she is some messed-up puppy and a little (selfish) attempt to pretend that she didn’t nearly single-handedly destroy the evening doesn’t change that.
Yes, selfish. It’s not Joe’s feelings she’s trying to salvage by being last-minute nice, it’s her own.
I wonder if Willis intended it to look that way, or if you’re giving him valuable feedback by interpreting it that way.
Judging by her expression as she walks away, she is not trying to salvage her feelings. Her goal is selfish, but appropriately so. In the end, she didn’t wait for someone else to bring something better to the night. Handling it as badly as she is just makes it realistic.
This was not the objectification she and Joe were practicing earlier. That was a recipe for mutual disaster, as we’ve seen. Now to see if they’ll learn anything from it.
Judging by her expression, her effort to salvage her self-image as a not-bongo who didn’t total her first date was simply a failure.
No, I can’t see how you’d interpret her expression that way at all.
Any date where a guy has been hired to punch you in the face if you behave in a way that she does not appreciate is a date with a Crazy Woman, even if she is cute and misunderstood. Unless you’re a masochist, in which case it’s love at first sight, and time for wacky hijinks!
That’s not why she hired him. It’s what she got, but it was not what she’d expected.
His only pay was the opportunity to punch people in the face.
So “hired” was a poor choice of words. It’s still not why she brought him.
He made it clear that’s why he was coming, and she brought him.
Since she was surprised and apologetic when he did hit Joe, it’s pretty clear that she’d never expected it would happen. Naive, sure, but she only asked for Joe to be hit once.
While he only deserved to be punched once, Joe was the one asking for it every other time.
“Asking for it” with his impure thoughts. I’m sure a preachy psycho like Joyce would think so.
No, he literally requested it. Knowing the terms, he tried to bribe a guard to abandon his charge, made it clear he was thinking inappropriate thoughts (by the terms set forth for Mike) every seven seconds, and actively stared at someone’s chest..
Mike had him on a technicality on two of those punches, but he set himself up every time.
Spare me. Keep arguing how Joe deserved it if you want, but the fact remains that Joyce brought along someone she knew agreed to the job purely because he wanted an opportunity to punch someone in the face. If she didn’t think he’d be looking for the opportunity, she’s bonehead stupid. Is that what you’re saying?
d=(o.o<)
This situation reminds me of a scene in the Incredibles, where Helen stretches her neck to tower above Bob, shouting, “This. Is. Not. About. You!”
Joyce took a stand for herself. Realistically, it was inexcusable, but compare it to Mike’s behaviour–and the free pass he’s getting, because people expect that of him.
It’s not about Joyce, then. It’s about what people expect of her.
If she’d handled Joe well, it wouldn’t have been Joyce. If she’d been played by Joe, there’d be little hope of redeeming him. We got the third option, wherein she plays into the rules of her universe. We’re shown someone Joe cannot push around without her being idealized into something she’s not.
If we’re lucky, they’ll grow out of this. If we’re really lucky, that will occur along a very winding path.
Took a stand for herself? Against what? The closest Joe got to “pushing her around” was asking what was wrong with Lust. He spent the whole rest of the date ducking her conversion attempts, dissuading her plans to get his parents back together, and gettting punched in the face.
As for Mike, well, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing someone hit him back at some point (he doesn’t have super strength in this universe, after all), but that’s beside the point. Do you really want Joyce in the comedic sociopath category with Mike?
She took a stand against Joe’s predatory nature. He knew she wasn’t looking for the same thing he was, but he went after it anyway. He’s shown himself willing to exploit her long term goals in pursuit of his short term goals, with no regard toward the former beyond that.
They’re so similar it’s not funny. Neither of them was interested in the other person so much as what the means to an end presented here. Both of them went into this with the intention of changing the other person’s life.
Seriously, a couple of cartoon blows to the head are nothing compared to the rest of the crap they’ve been flinging at each other.
Joyce didn’t know anything about that, so she couldn’t possibly have been taking a stand against it. Joe may have shown US that he’s a predator, but Joyce didn’t know. She would have done the same to Danny.
Danny wouldn’t have tried to bribe Mike. Danny wouldn’t have tried to ditch Joyce’s escort at the retaurant. Danny wouldn’t have diverted the subject at the table in such a manipulative fashion.
Try again.
*Shrug again*
Well, as you originally said, her reaction was still inexcusable, and now she’s the one who’s going to be hard to redeem. This strip doesn’t even come close. Is that better somehow?
Joyce does not have to be redeemed any more than Joe does, or Mike. She’s gone over the top once and she’s ruined?
To hell with that.
Mike is beyond redemption, and he doesn’t want it anyway. And yes, once you’ve taken part in beating on someone while he’s down, you need to be redeemed.
And no, she’s not ruined – by definition, if someone can still be redeemed, they’re not ruined. It’ll just take a lot more than this.
Sorry, Joyce…day late, dollar short. D:
Not if Joe’s expression is any indicator. Whether this goes anywhere between them or not (and I’d expect that to take months), it’s made an impression on him.
I’m just hoping it’s one that does both of them some good in the long run, whether they get together or end the series as avowed polyamorous celibates.
I think Dahlia meant for us. Joyce is going to have to do a lot more than that to escape her new classification as the crazy, dangerous, fanatical bongo.
Polyamorous celibates? Now there’s an odd phrase.
Sure, but there’s no reason the two have to be mutually exclusive.
o: I guess so…
I’d say NOW Joe’s feeling a little remorseful.
Way to go, Joe. I can’t really say that she doesn’t deserve to be feeling bad but still, try to do something. I dunno, I’d feel bad if I let her walk away from me all sad like, but then again, I’m too nice for my own good sometimes.
Much too nice, if you feel sorry for somebody who just got done beating you up.
So much Joyce hate… Yeah, she was crazy, and I’m not a fan of religious zealots either, but in the end, I do feel Joe was just as, if not more so guilty of this mess than Joyce. Why? Because, in spite of his hormonal fueled ways, he knew what it could become. He wanted to change her just as much as she wanted to change him. Change the sweet, naive girl into a sex kitten. College is a learning experience, an experience of tolerance for many. I live in a very conservative area and have seen girls that are surprisingly close to being like Joyce. See them a few years later after going to college, and they are almost unrecognizable. Guys like Joe, though? Very rarely is there a change. They know what they’re doing.
He knew it could become a beat-down with himself on the losing end? Somehow I doubt that.
You do have a point, that Joe wanted to change Joyce just as much as she wanted to change him, which was obnoxious in its own right. If this date had been a night of dueling conversion attempts, ending with frustration and loud arguments, then they would share the responsibility equally, and this scene would be kind of sweet. Instead, Joe barely got a word in edgewise and Joyce had Mike beat him up.
Thus the hate.
To be fair, though… She did beg Mike to stop until he pointed out that Joe had looked at Connie’s breasts. At which point it switched over to a pretty classic kind of woman scorned moment.
“He knew it could become a beat-down with himself on the losing end? Somehow I doubt that.”
He said as much in the panel Connie appeared.
Well, of course he knew then. Mike had been beating on him for the whole date by that point.
Why he didn’t fight back or leave sooner, I’ll never know.
No, Mike only struck Joe every time the agreement allowed him to do so. True, he really stretched the point with the “seven seconds” thing, but Joe didn’t stop there. Calling out a fornicative synonym didn’t help his case (to borrow a Bill Cosby line out of context, “First you say, then you do it.”), and looking down from Connie’s eyes to her chest was just terminally stupid.
He didn’t leave because, up until Joyce lost her temper with him, he thought he had a chance of getting her alone.
“Fornicative synonym”? Are you pulling my leg here? What do you shout when someone hits you?
Whatever it is, chances are good that Joyce would be more worried about your language than the fact you’d been hit.
That depends: am I trying to be considerate to other people in earshot?
I’ll tell you this much: words that are likely to likely to offend my date are NOT on.
You take time to consider what words might offend your date when you get hit? Color me impressed.
Joe wanted to sleep with Joyce. No denying that. But at what point did he bully her? Did he every preach that her beliefs were wrong or did he bring someone along to bully Joyce into doing something she didn’t want to do.
Joyce has been harping on about her religion, insulting his faith, sticking her nose into his family issues, and brought along someone who she gave permission to hit her date if he did anything that wasn’t hyper-conservative. I mean, Mike began striking Joe for his personal thoughts, which lets be frank, are impossible to control. Even Joyce has had those thoughts.
Joyce is the bigger bad in this plot, because her beliefs were zealot. Joe technically did nothing wrong except hope he could sleep with her, and even then, he never pushed her.
I like Joyce, but I think that’s because I loved how her world view changed and grew in It’s Walky. I can’t wait to see how Willis handles it this time around. People aren’t born knowing how to interact with other people. They mess up and they learn from their mistakes. I don’t think Joyce is pleased with the way she handled things tonight. It looks like she’s taken her first step on the road to rethinking things.
And don’t forget what Joe’s intentions were on this date. He wanted to seduce her, knowing full well that she is a virgin and that she doesn’t believe in sex before marriage. He was being just as disrespectful of Joyce’s beliefs as she was of his. It just so happens that Joyce’s aggression came into effect before his did, so she came off looking like the bad guy.
See, we know Joe’s intentions, but Joyce didn’t. How could she? The most he got out on the subject was “What’s so bad about Lust?” Which means that she and Mike beat him up for general “hanky-pankiousness”. That’s why she looks like the bad guy.
His will was strong… Despite his intentions Joe seemed pretty gentlemanly and patient during this arc. So far, to me at least, he doesn’t seem to come off as someone who WOULD fight. Unless it was completely necessary, anyway. If you wanna get too psychology-oriented with that, maybe you could relate it to how his parents are divorced. Maybe his dad did a little more than yell sometimes.
Whoops, this reply was meant to be a little further up. Not sure how it wound up here.
Yeah, we know Joe wanted to have sex with Joyce, but you’ll note he never pushed her. He brought up the discussion of sexual lust not being altogether “evil” and didn’t even get that far because Mike hit him (which Joyce approved of). He didn’t bully her, or attack her or insult her. Joe Joe did nothing wrong. And for the most part, he seems respectable enough that if Joyce had told “No, I don’t want to have sex” he would have being disappointed but accepted her decision. He’s a cad, a jerk and a sexually obsessed, but he seems to have some sort of limits. Joyce meanwhile pushes her beliefs to unfair levels.
Joe never managed to get to get Joyce alone. He was out of his element the whole date because of Mike. He never had the opportunity to make his move. As far as Joyce telling him she didn’t want to have sex, how much clearer do you have to get than believing in chastity before marriage? He knew she didn’t want to have sex, and he planned to change her mind.
Joyce’s action aren’t justified, obviously, but I agree with Pinnelipe up there; she doesn’t understand why what she’s doing is wrong. She’s led a very sheltered life. In her vision of the of the world she IS doing the right thing. It’s going to take her a while to learn why it’s not. The real judge of her character is not whether or not she makes mistakes, but whether she learns from them.
Mary (from Roomies) is a good foil for Joyce. Mary is someone who had similar hang-ups as Joyce, but never stopped judging people, even after she started participating in the activities she disapproved of. Joyce, on the other hand, changed her opinions and grew as a person.
So is this puncher remorse I guess?
I think Joyce’s sheltered life has in retrospect done so much more harm than good in the end. Because of the certain standards set and the environment she’s been raised in, it seems as if someone like Joe is generally just a big pervert deserving of punishment. But perhaps in her Christianese way she can realise that dealing out the punishment isn’t technically her place to begin with, nor Mikes. Plus eentually realise that it is such a LITTLE thing she was punishing to begin with anyway.
But now I guess in the silence of the lift she’s starting to wonder about this at least as the rage has cooled off? Joe seemed like a nice guy overall after all before the punchings happened. She may eventually start to realise the fundy black-and-white way is just not cutting it in the real world.
Joe still has a right to be mad at her, I mean she still has to apologise in general in my view at the very least (and I think she’d mean it if she did it) but I still feel a bit sorry for her for some reason, and the last comic I was thinking “Man, what a crazy bongo”.
Then again, I’m not the best at holding grudges myself (granted apart from my sister when I was little I haven’t had physical tustles or punches really, this is more to do with people acting like bongoes in general) but I guess I’d forgive her eventually upon apology, though it would take a little while before I could consider her a friend if ever at all, but I guess I’d leave her be mostly, with however a stern warning not to pull that shit again with ANYONE except in actual self-defense and WHY it’s wrong otherwise. Plus say that the next person could report her and it’s more or less assault what she pulled and she should count herself lucky I’m letting it slide.
Yep, I totally sympathize with both Joyce and Joe.
I can’t believe I only just noticed they’re in an elevator.
Why does that worry me?
The fact that they’re in an elevator? I dunno, Aerosmith flashbacks?
Watching too much Grays’ Anatomy?
At the risk of defending psycho religious behavior, I have no sympathy for Joe. I mean his plan was to “fix” her with his penis, that at least to me makes him a piece of shite deserving of being punched repeatedly.
And her plan to “Fix” Joe was to change his religious belifs, and stick her fat nose into his family life … I see her as more of the bad guy.
I don’t remember any situation in college that was this exaggerated, what with punching being a fairly harmful activity in the real world, but I do remember that moment of remorse and realization where you know you did something wrong.
I think Joyce and Joe are, at heart, good people. They’re just young and making young, dumb choices.
Here’s the only difference between Joyce and Joe I think really matters:
Joe would never have resorted to violence to change Joyce around.
Joyce GAVE Mike carte blanche to punch anyone getting out of line, then joined in when she got mad enough. If you can argue that Joe would have done the same thing, I would agree with the anti-Joe talk, but I have to side with him on this one.
That’s a good point. But I do think Joyce has learned that’s not a good option.
Like so many others, I see Joyce as the bad guy in this story, not Joe. Yes, he went out with her in the hopes of sleeping with her. Well, guess what? A lot of people do that. We’re sexual beings. We like to have sex.
However, Joe never pushed her into having sex. He was respectable, he didn’t bully her or insult her beliefs or try and force her into doing something she didn’t want to do. He didn’t bring along a third party who would strike her if she spoke out of turn against his beliefs. He didn’t strike her when she spoke against her beliefs. He attempted to debate with her the idea of lust being exclusively evil. Was this done with the hopes it might convince her to sleep with him? Very possible. But at the time is was only talk, which is hardly a bad thing, since they were trying to have a conversation, and at times conversations have two opposing views.
Joyce however did all the stuff that Joe didn’t. She belittled his Jewish beliefs and has been subtly insulting them by preaching her own faith to Joe. She brought Mike along and gave him the okay to beat Joe if he did, said or even thought of something sexual. She then proceeded to attack Joe with Mike for looking at another woman (while this is tacky and rude, it is not cause for being attacked). Joyce has been the worst kind of date, regardless of upbringing, gender or faith.
I grew up with a couple of really conservative kids, and I don’t really see Joyce as belittling his Jewish faith. She’s just been taught that it’s wrong. For her, it’s like arguing with someone that gravity doesn’t exist. Of course it exists, you can see how it exists all around you. For her, the Christian God is something so fundamental that it seems bizarre for a person not to have faith in Him. She’s not belittling Joe, she’s just confused. It’s really impossible to argue with people over this. In my experience it’s best to just accept that neither of you is going to understand the other. I mean, in their world view, we’re all going to hell because we don’t believe in the exact same faith as them. They are totally clueless as to why we would want that.
I’m not saying it’s right that she thinks that way, but it’s kind of silly to get mad at someone for a belief that’s been driven into them by their families and communities.
I can’t be the only one that had “Kiss the Girl” pop into his head on the last panel.
Yes. Yes you can.
simple thought exercize: reverse their genders…then tell me if you can still sympathize with Joyce:
girl wants to get laid, takes guy on date. guy brings violent female chaperone. any time girl talks, or thinks, about anything remotely sexual, girl gets hit. eventually both guy and violent girl are wailing on the first girl, who ends up with at least one visible bruise on her face. she is later told she smells good by the guy, who said he didn’t want the evening to end terribly.
sorry…in my book, the one that resorts to violence loses every time. joe would have tried to coerce her…but she instigated the hitting. apologies or not, she KNEW mike was only there for the chance to hit people, and he was hitting joe for thoughts. uncool. if thoughts aren’t safe, what the heck is?
If girl-Joe were still massive and built and boy-Joyce were still tiny and adorable, I think I’d still feel the same way.
We now need a pic of this pairing
No, we now need a pic of the characters Gender Bended!
This episode really impressed me, showing the characters growing into more than their stereotypes. I wasn’t prepared to like either of these characters, and I do now.
Joyce is now officially my favorite. Any room for a new character, David? I can’t believe I’m officially crushing on Joyce, haha. Great attitude, similar views, great smile, similar faith, very trustworthy, that’s exactly the same girl I’m wanting, though needs to be real…. 🙂
If by ‘Trustworthy” you mean “Will hire someone to chaperone and punch you in the face while she tries to butt into your personal life/ disrespect your religion” then yes.. ._.
“But you smell nice.”, said the drowning scorpion to the poisoned frog.
Both Joe and Joyce were in the wrong. Joyce wanted to make him Christian (and described it as being “like Twilight”). Joe wanted to “fix her” with his penis. Both are pretty terrible in their own rights.
I still ship this….