If we’re going by quantity of Biblical text they both share, it’s considerably more than half. The New Testament is a great deal less than half the Christian Bible. It’s not even a quarter, in page count.
It’s encouraging to me that she thinks vampires in Twilight end up converted away from their vampirism like she intends to save the poor non-Christians, because it means she can’t have watched Twilight very carefully.
Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Qu’ran comes out and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There’s still Jesus but he’s not the main character any more and the messiah hasn’t shown up yet.
Jews like the first movie but ignored the sequels, Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third movie doesn’t count. Muslims think the third one was the best, and Mormons liked the second one so much they started writing fanfiction that doesn’t fit with any of the series canon.
Actually, yes. In Islam’s view, it is Phase 3 after Judaism and Christianity. It reveres all the same prophets as Jews and Christians do and feels that Prophet Muhammad received the final attempt to share God’s message with humans.
You see, Judaism is like Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition. Christianity is like Dungeons in Dragons 4th Edition. Islam is like Pathfinder.
Compare 4th Ed. and Pathfinder (or Christianity and Islam) and you’ll see they have a common origin in 3rd Edition (or Judaism) but that took this origin and pulled it in very different directions while also leaving their source material far behind.
Yes, I just compared the big three monotheistic religions to Dungeons & Dragons. Deal with it.
I will deal with this in the only way I know how (and prove I’m both long in the tooth and late to the party in the process)
1st Edition is Judaism: The Law was passed down on set of tablets and was seen to be good for a select few in an early time.
2nd Edition is Christianity: Most of what came before was perfect, but we have a real excitement for a few clauses in the old texts and that is totally the way forward. Oh, and the Powers that be aren’t going to make sure you’re Job’ed if you do, Job’ed if you don’t (YMMV by DM). At least they won’t be quite as demony (again, YMMV). Popularity skyrockets, and the new sect looks down on the traditionalists (*Reports of Pogroms against 1ed players are dismissed as a paranoid delusion)
2nd Edition (this is not 3rd edition 3rd edition, when WTC took over initially) is the Apocrypha: Sure, someone wrote that. I even like some of it… ok I like some of it a lot. But it isn’t something we talk about without burning people…with fire.
3rd Edition (for real this time): All the rest of this is technically true, but we’re under new management so here is how you are going to think of how things really work. They were on the right track, but here’s a whole new framework for it. Also, feats.
3.5 Edition: Probably Mormonism. I stopped caring.
4th Edition: Scientology?
Palladium: Buddhism. There are many faces of the universe, but at its core it is unchanging and just looking for new ways to discover itself.
GURPS: Taoism…no, really…just go with it.
D20: Pagan faiths as defined as none of the above. What you were doing the whole time with your house rules and your home brew brick-a-brack.
Pathfinder: Satanism. You have to vilify the new guy.
P.S. My spell check already knew GURPS…I’m not sure if I’m happy or sad.
Islam would be the digital remastering of the original now out on Blueray, produced by popular demand, after so many hardcore fans were furious about the massive rewrites that changed everything to what was more politically convenient at the time.
The test was to gauge how much work she’ll need to put into “fixing him”. Due to the fact he’s the first and only guy to ask her out, in her head that means he really wants to marry her, but first she must convert him into her faith, and then everything will be “perfect”.
Well she still is staying pure and both cases she became obsessive easily. The only difference is that she talks to Joe first in DoA rather than Danny like in roomies.
yeah, most christians i’ve met are like that are just kinda “whatever i’m a christian” while others (like my neighbor) is pretty much shoving it down your throat, that’s why whenever they’re outside, i’m inside >_>
Why would you want to get OFF the Anti-Twilight bandwagon? The franchise sucks. It’s the most shallow, morally questionable and frankly stalker-creepy-esque story I can remember reading outside of fanfiction.net.
But I guess I prefer the haters to the rabid fangirls. Particularly when you consider the fact that the only reason I read the first book to begin with was because of all my friends who are rabid fangirls, telling me how good of a book it is, only to feel very angry at having actually BOUGHT the book.
When Twilight first started getting popular, before Twi-Hate became common, I read the first book and a half to see what all the fuss was about. I had 20/20 vision. I now have occasional eye-strain. It was so bad, it literally hurt my eyes to read it.
rabid haters just complain about the book & how terrible it is whereas rabid fangirls bite people, make their boyfriend’s hold ice to their lips, want robert pattinson to sign their boob & believe that harry potter ripped off twilight
Yes, and the fact that you’re complaining about it only gives it more publicity. If people ignored these things then they would probably die a slow, quiet death. Controversy is the true secret of immortality.
So let me get this straight… you feel that it’s better one not voice their own opinion, for fear that it might cause “controversy”? Kinda defeats the concept of having an opinion, doesn’t it? I mean, just because something MIGHT die a slow death from people remaining silent rather than complaining, doesn’t mean it will. So if something is going to be around one way or another, seems odd to remain silent, while the other side is so vocal.
Do I hate the book series and wish it had never been written? Of course. But here’s the thing: The book has caused me some very interesting discussions with people who are fans of the series about it’s moral concepts, writing and so on. I don’t really consider t.hat a bad thing
Is this some ancient piece of Anti Semetic propoganda I’m unaware of, or is it one of the cool stereotypes like “Gay-Super-Fashion-Sense” or “Black guys with enormous… Basketball talent”? Because something quirky about their junk would be a massively better stereotype than “have large hooked noses and a tendency towards thriftiness.”
The Latin Vulgate translations say Moses literally had horns? That’s… It should be weird, but damn, I’d be more inclined to follow a Prophet into the desert if he had Godsdamned horns. That’s just badass.
Actually, the sparkling glitter tornado is pretty appealing. Joe screaming and trying to avoid it, but not quite managing, and then being covered in glitter and trying to maintain his dignity while Danny snickers at him. This is a good image.
And THAT would be the point where I want to smack Joyce and explain that the Romans were the ones who tied/nailed Jesus to the cross, killing him. And also point out that Jesus was a well respected Rabbi.
Well respected by the people, yes. The Sanhedrin, no. You’d think having a teacher come in and explain things, but when you’ve got a faction with sticklers for rules competing with a faction that denies angels exist when it’s canon (it’s like someone saying there is no Ruth when we’ve seen her in the archives), and you’ve got the people getting tired of Roman occupation, having a Rabbi that no one taught (new Rabbis only come from having studied years under old Rabbis) show up and buck the very fragile situation (~40 years after the crucifixion, Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome) does not endear Jesus to them.
Of course, if Joyce had a proper Christian perspective, she’d know all of us, through our sins, put Jesus on the cross, not just the Romans carrying out the death sentence, not just the Jews who had him arrested, not just Pilate, who had a terrible time trying to govern Judea…
Characterizing the Jewish authorities as the time as “sticklers for rules” is a paraphrase of the worst kind of Christian polemics against Jews: that Jews are overly legalistic, pedantic, or merciless in their application of the law. For reference, see The Merchant of Venice and the pound of flesh. It might also be an exaggeration to say that Jesus was well-respected by “the people.” “Some people,” maybe, but saying “the people” implies that a majority were followers of Jesus, which is demonstrably untrue. If Jesus had had much support among the people, the Romans would have taken more action than just killing him.
From a Jewish perspective, Jesus of Nazareth is just one in a long line of pretenders to the messianic title. His claim, according to Jewish tradition, is no better than that of Shimon Bar Kohkba or Shabbetai Zvi.
Um… Bryan, have you never heard of the group called the Pharisees? They were Sticklers for the rules to an extreme. They weren’t the only members of the Sanhedrin. Way to misread my comment.
Also, Roman crucifixion was reserved for the worst offenders, and a Rabbi who seems to be gathering steam behind his movement on the anniversary of the liberation of the Jewish people from Egyptian authority would fall under that category.
I’ll stop there, this isn’t really the place for such debate.
Bill M.: I’m sure Bryan knows. The New Testament wasn’t immune to the cultural politics at the time. The Pharisees are a very Jewish stereotype. Is this because they were actually this way or because that helped the writers of the Gospels frame their story to others? Depends on how literally you take the Bible.
Well lets think about this for a moment… She intends to take a perfectly normal guy (although he’s a bit of a tool) and sink her teeth into him, and force him into becoming something else entirely… I’d say she’s comparing herself to a vampire.
Yeah, but that analogy doesn’t make much sense. She’s not converting to the Jewish Faith, but rather trying to convert Joe to Christianity. I mean, I only read the first book, but from what I understand, the annoying chick in that series didn’t convert the poofter vamp, into not being a vampire.
I don’t know what I find more horrifying about this. The fact Joyce is actually going to try and be a religious-nag who’ll try and bible-thump Joe into converting to Christianity so she can supposedly try and trap him into marriage, or… the fact she’s a fan of Twa- I mean Twilight.
Wow, two totally annoying people! If they actually knock boots the world might just explode. Oh God! Just imagine if they breed! On second thought… don’t try to picture it… *shudder*
At least Joyce is honest, upbeat, and sincere. And honestly, Christianity-bashing tends to be just as annoying as Bible-thumping, so I really wonder why so many people don’t like Joyce. She’s just a funny stereotype of her people and she’s not hurting anyone.
Hah! Yeah you’ve got a point there. Joe has no right to expect that Joyce will just put out if he sweet talks her enough just like Joyce can’t sweet talk him into religion.
To be fair though, Joyce also thinks she’s ‘saving’ him in her view, so from their prospective outlooks, Joyce is better morally speaking. Christianity is one hell of a drug. A drug you feel compelled to share as if it’s the cure for cancer (and I’ve seen christians use that analogy- in their view that is true regardless of what’s happening in reality so they kind of have a point from their persepective). At least that’s how it was when I believed.
I’m not sure I agree Joyce is much morally better. Certainly from her perspective, yes, but ‘Manipulate someone through a relationship to give up their whole value set, traditions, and family history in order to be a perfect husband’ doesn’t seem much better than ‘Joe to get her to give up her faith for a life of Joeing’.
And may be worse. I just looked back…he just wants to Joe her, knowing she is un-Joe’d. She wants to change everything about him to make him her perfect husband.
For many Christians, in order for Joe to Joe her, he’d have to erode HER value set, traditions, and history in order to get there. And he’s not doing it because he wants to help her. He just wants to help himself. So, I’d have to say Joe is more in the wrong here, being that the only difference are their intentions, and Joyce at least means well.
People who regard Judaism as merely an incomplete version of Christianity seem to assume it stopped evolving 2,000 years ago, when in reality it’s continued evolving side-by-side with Christianity but in a very different direction. And when it comes to scripture, Jews also attribute the same authority to the Talmud, or oral tradition, as they do to the written Torah (aka Old Testament), meaning that since the Talmud is many times longer than the Torah, Jews actually only share a small fraction of their scripture with Christianity, and even then their interpretations often vary widely from Christian ones. Theologically, Judaism is much closer to Islam than either is to Christianity, which in many respects (trinitarian God, human incarnations, etc.) is actually more like Hinduism than the other Abrahamic faiths. So, in short, Joyce knows nothing about any religion other than her own.
i’m pretty sure that she says that Judaism is 1/2 Christian since both religions believe in the same God, its just the fact that Jews don’t believe that Jesus is their messiah.
Un, no, we don’t. Clearly you’re coming from a Christian perspective of how Jews are just Christian Lite. Frankly, we couldn’t be more different from Christians unless they had stolen and butchered someone else’s religion first. Wolf was right. Maybe don’t talk about religions you obviously know nothing about.
he-he that dude in the background in panel 4 should totally be named Twilight. It would totally explain why he was staring at them and the strip would already be tagged that he showed up here =P
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Joyce, honey, “Jewish” does not mean “half-Christian.”
yes it does. monotheism is half the battle.
Go Joe!
Well it means half the Christian Bible :p you know the one with all the heathen killin’, rapin’ and slavin’ and firey stuff and long desert walks.
You know the fun part!
If we’re going by quantity of Biblical text they both share, it’s considerably more than half. The New Testament is a great deal less than half the Christian Bible. It’s not even a quarter, in page count.
You think the Torah’s the fun part? Read Revelation. Dropping acid before doing so is optional, but not encouraged.
Well originally christians were the next step in Judaism when it first came around. So technically, I guess.
I think it’s more accurate to say that Christians believed/believe they were the next step in Judaism.
So… the Pope is Magneto?
Someone, please please please photoshop either Sir Ian McKellen as the Pope, or Pope Benedict XVI as Magneto, STAT.
Consider it done. http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/SilentHun/Popneto.png
heh heh 😀
That was flat out awesome. Although I’d still love to see Sir Ian McKellen as the pope. *saves the image to add to his other bizarre pope shops*
If it was the other way around from Shashulfrashul, I might convert. Would make it easy, since Magneto is Jewish.
“So… the Pope is Magneto?”
Well, he was a part of the catholic inquisition in that Marvel 1602 miniseries Neil Gaiman wrote.
God i love being a nerd.
It’s because Jesus came to fulfill the law, He’s the son of God and all things go through Him. But true, you can’t be a half Christian,
And that last comment by her just made me lose a little credibility in her. Twilight, oy vey.
It’s encouraging to me that she thinks vampires in Twilight end up converted away from their vampirism like she intends to save the poor non-Christians, because it means she can’t have watched Twilight very carefully.
Does that make Islam, like, Phase 3, or what?
A spin-off.
A Hollywood reboot? Sorry, “Re-Imagining”?
I can’t claim to have written this (FoFoF quote):
Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Qu’ran comes out and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There’s still Jesus but he’s not the main character any more and the messiah hasn’t shown up yet.
Jews like the first movie but ignored the sequels, Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third movie doesn’t count. Muslims think the third one was the best, and Mormons liked the second one so much they started writing fanfiction that doesn’t fit with any of the series canon.
Pretty accurate
*applauds*
Actually, yes. In Islam’s view, it is Phase 3 after Judaism and Christianity. It reveres all the same prophets as Jews and Christians do and feels that Prophet Muhammad received the final attempt to share God’s message with humans.
You know, I understood being the old man. Being Dorothy is strange. 🙂
You see, Judaism is like Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition. Christianity is like Dungeons in Dragons 4th Edition. Islam is like Pathfinder.
Compare 4th Ed. and Pathfinder (or Christianity and Islam) and you’ll see they have a common origin in 3rd Edition (or Judaism) but that took this origin and pulled it in very different directions while also leaving their source material far behind.
Yes, I just compared the big three monotheistic religions to Dungeons & Dragons. Deal with it.
You are my hero for doing that. Someone should mail this to Jack Chick.
What are 1st and 2nd edition in this scenario?
Clearly the pre-Judaistic pagan religions.
I will deal with this in the only way I know how (and prove I’m both long in the tooth and late to the party in the process)
1st Edition is Judaism: The Law was passed down on set of tablets and was seen to be good for a select few in an early time.
2nd Edition is Christianity: Most of what came before was perfect, but we have a real excitement for a few clauses in the old texts and that is totally the way forward. Oh, and the Powers that be aren’t going to make sure you’re Job’ed if you do, Job’ed if you don’t (YMMV by DM). At least they won’t be quite as demony (again, YMMV). Popularity skyrockets, and the new sect looks down on the traditionalists (*Reports of Pogroms against 1ed players are dismissed as a paranoid delusion)
2nd Edition (this is not 3rd edition 3rd edition, when WTC took over initially) is the Apocrypha: Sure, someone wrote that. I even like some of it… ok I like some of it a lot. But it isn’t something we talk about without burning people…with fire.
3rd Edition (for real this time): All the rest of this is technically true, but we’re under new management so here is how you are going to think of how things really work. They were on the right track, but here’s a whole new framework for it. Also, feats.
3.5 Edition: Probably Mormonism. I stopped caring.
4th Edition: Scientology?
Palladium: Buddhism. There are many faces of the universe, but at its core it is unchanging and just looking for new ways to discover itself.
GURPS: Taoism…no, really…just go with it.
D20: Pagan faiths as defined as none of the above. What you were doing the whole time with your house rules and your home brew brick-a-brack.
Pathfinder: Satanism. You have to vilify the new guy.
P.S. My spell check already knew GURPS…I’m not sure if I’m happy or sad.
3rd Edition is Islam. I can check for spelling like a mofo, but content?
Islam would be the digital remastering of the original now out on Blueray, produced by popular demand, after so many hardcore fans were furious about the massive rewrites that changed everything to what was more politically convenient at the time.
Hail Satan.
SHE ACCEPTED D= I thought he failed.
Or does taking the test count as 100%
The test was to gauge how much work she’ll need to put into “fixing him”. Due to the fact he’s the first and only guy to ask her out, in her head that means he really wants to marry her, but first she must convert him into her faith, and then everything will be “perfect”.
Wrong and hilarious!
Maybe she’ll grow to realise jews are people too.
She knows they’re people! They’re just people doomed to everlasting hellfire unless she can steer them to the right path.
I don’t think Twilight is kosher.
It was written by a Mormon! Its softcore porn for wholesome god-fearing Christian girls!
Actually, that explains so many of my female friends who love that stuff…
I don’t no if I’m more uneasy about the forced conversion or the twilight vampire reference. No the twilight franchise is more upsetting
This Strip = DOWANT
Twilight = DONOTWANT.
yup
I’m sorry Joyce, I know you have good intentions, but I can’t wait for you to be blown off your pedestal.
Hopefully Mike does it.
You want Mike to blow Joyce??
i love joyce but this joyce is juuuuuust a bit weird XD
No kidding. She is redefining the deep end with just how off it she is.
I’m finding her weirdness endearing, myself. There’s nothing like rabid nature to amuse.
I’m finding it hard to like this version of Joyce. Her actions and behavior is just coming off a bit “The call is coming from inside the house”.
I prefer to think of it as “The call is coming from inside the horse”.
It amuses me.
she’s about the same as the joyce in roomies
nah, in roomies she was more about staying clean & being in love with danny this one is just … strange o.O
Well she still is staying pure and both cases she became obsessive easily. The only difference is that she talks to Joe first in DoA rather than Danny like in roomies.
I think she is just getting more of an opportunity to flex her crazy here. Upgraded to main protagonist, upgraded to major crazy.
Its funny, I knew i girl like her. Not the marriage thing but the convert to christianity thing. No fun.
yeah, most christians i’ve met are like that are just kinda “whatever i’m a christian” while others (like my neighbor) is pretty much shoving it down your throat, that’s why whenever they’re outside, i’m inside >_>
Yeah she’s weird but no weirder then Joyce Prime was back in roomies.
Aww man, this universe has Twilight too? Truly this is a hellish place.
Thanks to Joyce’s comment, the idea of sparklely jews came into my head.
It’ll be like Avatar but with Jews instead of aliens. Wait…
Now you’re being silly, Avatar was space magical native americans, not space jews.
And Jews in Space was done by Mel Brooks anyway
Yeah, when is he going to get around to giving us History of the World, Part 2?
Its scheduled for release on the day after Duke Nukem Forever goes gold
So a couple of months ago?
I love how Joyce apparently said that last part loud enough for people 20 feet away to turn their heads and give her an incredulous look.
It just means they’ve been forewarned!
Twilight is just that terrible.
DAMMIT WILLIS, I’m trying to get off the anti-Twilight bandwagon as it is, stop making this harder for me! >_<
You and me both!!!
I’m perfectly fine with it. In fact, just today I bought a Twilight parody called Nightlight. I’m liking to Twi-hate ^_^
Why would you want to get OFF the Anti-Twilight bandwagon? The franchise sucks. It’s the most shallow, morally questionable and frankly stalker-creepy-esque story I can remember reading outside of fanfiction.net.
Because people who are rabid haters are as annoying as rabid fangirls. ._.”
Eh, I can’t argue with that in some cases.
But I guess I prefer the haters to the rabid fangirls. Particularly when you consider the fact that the only reason I read the first book to begin with was because of all my friends who are rabid fangirls, telling me how good of a book it is, only to feel very angry at having actually BOUGHT the book.
When Twilight first started getting popular, before Twi-Hate became common, I read the first book and a half to see what all the fuss was about. I had 20/20 vision. I now have occasional eye-strain. It was so bad, it literally hurt my eyes to read it.
i’d prefer rabid haters over fangirls any day
rabid haters just complain about the book & how terrible it is whereas rabid fangirls bite people, make their boyfriend’s hold ice to their lips, want robert pattinson to sign their boob & believe that harry potter ripped off twilight
so i say rabid haters ftw 🙂
Lol, Inorite? Hating Twilight has become passe. It is like, wtf when did that happen?
Yes, all the cool people hate Narnia now.
All the cool people finished hating Narnia a decade ago. You posers are just late.
Yes, and the fact that you’re complaining about it only gives it more publicity. If people ignored these things then they would probably die a slow, quiet death. Controversy is the true secret of immortality.
So let me get this straight… you feel that it’s better one not voice their own opinion, for fear that it might cause “controversy”? Kinda defeats the concept of having an opinion, doesn’t it? I mean, just because something MIGHT die a slow death from people remaining silent rather than complaining, doesn’t mean it will. So if something is going to be around one way or another, seems odd to remain silent, while the other side is so vocal.
Do I hate the book series and wish it had never been written? Of course. But here’s the thing: The book has caused me some very interesting discussions with people who are fans of the series about it’s moral concepts, writing and so on. I don’t really consider t.hat a bad thing
Jews are sparkly??
Uh and Joyce… Twilight was written by a Mormon so comparing Jews to Twilight is just wrong on every level. *lol*
They may not be sparkly, but depending on which of the Great Masters you ask they did have horns.
…Oh. Oh crap.
…Joe’s entire character is one big decades-long “Horny Jew” joke, isn’t it?
If I had been drinking something right now I would have choked on it.
Is this some ancient piece of Anti Semetic propoganda I’m unaware of, or is it one of the cool stereotypes like “Gay-Super-Fashion-Sense” or “Black guys with enormous… Basketball talent”? Because something quirky about their junk would be a massively better stereotype than “have large hooked noses and a tendency towards thriftiness.”
Horns are, in fact, historically associated with imagery of Moses, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_(Michelangelo)#Description
The Latin Vulgate translations say Moses literally had horns? That’s… It should be weird, but damn, I’d be more inclined to follow a Prophet into the desert if he had Godsdamned horns. That’s just badass.
I’d actually be less inclined to follow Moses into the desert if he had horns, and that’s even after knowing how the story ends.
Roomies! Joyce was just clueless and clingy. This Joyce is creepily single-minded in her goal of finding a husband.
I think its a sign of how well Willis is writing this comic that I don’t know whether to be more afraid for Joe or Joyce.
For some reason, I cannot stop laughing at the guy in the background of panel 4. That look is priceless.
I’m mostly concerned with the fact that he seems to have a butt growing out of his chest…
pretty sure that is supposed to be his left arm, though it does seem out of proportion and does look like a butt.
I think the arm looks that way cos he is carrying something; books most likely.
First panel Joyce is kind of adorable.
ugh, twilight fan and fundie. i never liked joyce, but now i’d rather have someone else be the main char. of the story
Oh, Joyce. Haven’t you ever heard about the break-up statistics, sweetheart? u.u;;
Breakup statistics only apply to people that aren’t fully committed to their relationships.
…
Like Dorothy and Danny.
Can’t it be both? I’m pretty sure J.M. DeMatteis wrote about a Jewish vampire once. No, not Andrew Bennett. Some other guy.
I refuse to imagine a sparkling Joe, not even if involves a tornado striking glitter and glue factories.
Actually, the sparkling glitter tornado is pretty appealing. Joe screaming and trying to avoid it, but not quite managing, and then being covered in glitter and trying to maintain his dignity while Danny snickers at him. This is a good image.
Joe: This is the skin of a killer…
Joyce: That’s right. You people murdered Jesus Christ!
Oh goodness. I so shoud not have laughed at that but I couldn’t help myself. I’m a terrible person.
But then I’m atheist and an ex-christian so, I’m going to hell with no hope anyway according to some. In for a penny, in for a pound.
And THAT would be the point where I want to smack Joyce and explain that the Romans were the ones who tied/nailed Jesus to the cross, killing him. And also point out that Jesus was a well respected Rabbi.
Well respected by the people, yes. The Sanhedrin, no. You’d think having a teacher come in and explain things, but when you’ve got a faction with sticklers for rules competing with a faction that denies angels exist when it’s canon (it’s like someone saying there is no Ruth when we’ve seen her in the archives), and you’ve got the people getting tired of Roman occupation, having a Rabbi that no one taught (new Rabbis only come from having studied years under old Rabbis) show up and buck the very fragile situation (~40 years after the crucifixion, Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome) does not endear Jesus to them.
Of course, if Joyce had a proper Christian perspective, she’d know all of us, through our sins, put Jesus on the cross, not just the Romans carrying out the death sentence, not just the Jews who had him arrested, not just Pilate, who had a terrible time trying to govern Judea…
Characterizing the Jewish authorities as the time as “sticklers for rules” is a paraphrase of the worst kind of Christian polemics against Jews: that Jews are overly legalistic, pedantic, or merciless in their application of the law. For reference, see The Merchant of Venice and the pound of flesh. It might also be an exaggeration to say that Jesus was well-respected by “the people.” “Some people,” maybe, but saying “the people” implies that a majority were followers of Jesus, which is demonstrably untrue. If Jesus had had much support among the people, the Romans would have taken more action than just killing him.
From a Jewish perspective, Jesus of Nazareth is just one in a long line of pretenders to the messianic title. His claim, according to Jewish tradition, is no better than that of Shimon Bar Kohkba or Shabbetai Zvi.
Um… Bryan, have you never heard of the group called the Pharisees? They were Sticklers for the rules to an extreme. They weren’t the only members of the Sanhedrin. Way to misread my comment.
Also, Roman crucifixion was reserved for the worst offenders, and a Rabbi who seems to be gathering steam behind his movement on the anniversary of the liberation of the Jewish people from Egyptian authority would fall under that category.
I’ll stop there, this isn’t really the place for such debate.
Bill M.: I’m sure Bryan knows. The New Testament wasn’t immune to the cultural politics at the time. The Pharisees are a very Jewish stereotype. Is this because they were actually this way or because that helped the writers of the Gospels frame their story to others? Depends on how literally you take the Bible.
Thank you David.
THIS. is amazing.
“Greenberg the Vampire.” Great graphic novel.
Gentle nagging, huh? I doubt he’d approve of Gentile nagging. He’ll take the Gentile hugs, though.
Then there will be Gentile Joeing all night long. How did nobody go there already?
Oh Joyce, you of all people should know that it’s NOT like Twilight but with Jews. Unless you’re intending to convert whole-hog to Judaism.
… or unless you’re insinuating that you yourself are a vampire. I am okay with this.
Well lets think about this for a moment… She intends to take a perfectly normal guy (although he’s a bit of a tool) and sink her teeth into him, and force him into becoming something else entirely… I’d say she’s comparing herself to a vampire.
Well, except that she said “Jews instead of vampires” rather than “a Jew instead of a bland girl from Arizona.”
Yeah, but that analogy doesn’t make much sense. She’s not converting to the Jewish Faith, but rather trying to convert Joe to Christianity. I mean, I only read the first book, but from what I understand, the annoying chick in that series didn’t convert the poofter vamp, into not being a vampire.
On the other hand, Joe is trying to sink HIS “fang” into her and change her from a 4 to a 10. So it works both ways.
I don’t know what I find more horrifying about this. The fact Joyce is actually going to try and be a religious-nag who’ll try and bible-thump Joe into converting to Christianity so she can supposedly try and trap him into marriage, or… the fact she’s a fan of Twa- I mean Twilight.
I have never been so happy that I know no DoA!Joyce’s in real life. Traumatize her, Joe, please. You’re doing the world a service.
*lol* kudos on your avatar dude.
Wow, two totally annoying people! If they actually knock boots the world might just explode. Oh God! Just imagine if they breed! On second thought… don’t try to picture it… *shudder*
…I had forgotten how easy it was to utterly despise college!Joyce. Bring on the trauma!
I don’t like Joyce. She’s really friggin stupid. Am I supposed to like her?
I like the guy characters OK so far…but the girls all either have issues or are dumbasses like Joyce.
Welcome to real life, were no one is perfect and everyone has issues. And the guys here are just as messed up as the girls if not more so.
Sarah seems pretty sane, but maybe that’s just me.
The male characters so far are a winey little bongo, a sex maniac, an unapologetic asshole, and…erm…Ethan. And Walky.
By your logic you like two characters in the entire comic.
I only really care for three characters in the comic, and they’re definitely not the ones I really liked in Roomies/Shortpacked!
Joyce does seem a little harder to like in this continuity though.
At least Joyce is honest, upbeat, and sincere. And honestly, Christianity-bashing tends to be just as annoying as Bible-thumping, so I really wonder why so many people don’t like Joyce. She’s just a funny stereotype of her people and she’s not hurting anyone.
Willis, I hope you never use the Twilight tag again.
And I thought whe was going to say:
“It’s just like Twilight, except with, like, jews instead of mormons.”
It’s funny because they’re each going to try to manipulate and change the other in totally unethical ways.
Hah! Yeah you’ve got a point there. Joe has no right to expect that Joyce will just put out if he sweet talks her enough just like Joyce can’t sweet talk him into religion.
To be fair though, Joyce also thinks she’s ‘saving’ him in her view, so from their prospective outlooks, Joyce is better morally speaking. Christianity is one hell of a drug. A drug you feel compelled to share as if it’s the cure for cancer (and I’ve seen christians use that analogy- in their view that is true regardless of what’s happening in reality so they kind of have a point from their persepective). At least that’s how it was when I believed.
I’m not sure I agree Joyce is much morally better. Certainly from her perspective, yes, but ‘Manipulate someone through a relationship to give up their whole value set, traditions, and family history in order to be a perfect husband’ doesn’t seem much better than ‘Joe to get her to give up her faith for a life of Joeing’.
And may be worse. I just looked back…he just wants to Joe her, knowing she is un-Joe’d. She wants to change everything about him to make him her perfect husband.
For many Christians, in order for Joe to Joe her, he’d have to erode HER value set, traditions, and history in order to get there. And he’s not doing it because he wants to help her. He just wants to help himself. So, I’d have to say Joe is more in the wrong here, being that the only difference are their intentions, and Joyce at least means well.
Creepy Joyce is creepy.
Unstoppable Force, meet Immovable Object.
Joe, you poor son of a bongo, what have you got yourself into.
You mean who has he tried to get himself into.
Yes.
i laughed. ugh i liked roomies/it’s walky,etc joyce, but this one is kinda bugging me.
Who’s the guy in Panel 3?
Joyce. Duh.
😛
Did she just mention Jews and Twilight in the same sentence? I think I should go lie down now. To die. With a pickaxe.
They will obviously change each other, and then we will have Joecey and Joy. I’m looking towards the trauma, both of the characters and the audience.
I don’t think ten paces is far enough.
Heh. Gentile Nagging. I Get it!
People who regard Judaism as merely an incomplete version of Christianity seem to assume it stopped evolving 2,000 years ago, when in reality it’s continued evolving side-by-side with Christianity but in a very different direction. And when it comes to scripture, Jews also attribute the same authority to the Talmud, or oral tradition, as they do to the written Torah (aka Old Testament), meaning that since the Talmud is many times longer than the Torah, Jews actually only share a small fraction of their scripture with Christianity, and even then their interpretations often vary widely from Christian ones. Theologically, Judaism is much closer to Islam than either is to Christianity, which in many respects (trinitarian God, human incarnations, etc.) is actually more like Hinduism than the other Abrahamic faiths. So, in short, Joyce knows nothing about any religion other than her own.
i’m pretty sure that she says that Judaism is 1/2 Christian since both religions believe in the same God, its just the fact that Jews don’t believe that Jesus is their messiah.
Un, no, we don’t. Clearly you’re coming from a Christian perspective of how Jews are just Christian Lite. Frankly, we couldn’t be more different from Christians unless they had stolen and butchered someone else’s religion first. Wolf was right. Maybe don’t talk about religions you obviously know nothing about.
Wait, did Joyce just interpret Sarah’s “skeezebag” comment to mean “not Christian”?
he-he that dude in the background in panel 4 should totally be named Twilight. It would totally explain why he was staring at them and the strip would already be tagged that he showed up here =P
Joyce is such a sweetie, but I really wanna punch her in the face right now.
Yeah, me too. She mentioned Twilight. In my opinion that almost makes her worse than Mike.
I think the best part of this strip is the guy in the background of the last panel who’s staring at our characters.
Wait this Joyce is Twilight fan NOOOOOOOOOOOOO…But actually it kind of makes sense.
Oh, Joyce. My love for you has… Significantly decreased. Please do something adorable so I can “Awwwwww!” and love you again. Please.
I think that loving this character is going to be my new guilty pleasure.
Girl was staring at edward the whole time and not paying attention to the plot.
guess she didnt read the last book or watch the last 2 movies.