Oh, and practically all other people have crotch shots instead of butt shots. And the one person we see from behind gets their butt covered by AG’s speech bubble.
Not this again. Before the argument starts up, can we agree to compromise and say that maybe it works sometimes, on some types of permanent marker (and are you sure it wasn’t wet erase marker rather than permanent?), on some types of whiteboards, not necessarily well.
It works on all that I’ve tried with the exception of the whiteboards that had their protective overlay stripped off (usually by too much Windex or cleaners that aren’t whiteboard cleaners)
Just like Angelus! Who has an alternate persona as Angel(and technically Liam, but…) who is later a dark, brooding vigilante in a corrupt city. Plus he gets an endless supply of goofy sidekicks that go dark by the time they’re ready to fight evil alone, and a sweet black car. Works at nights…
Ego and guilt complexes go hand in hand. It takes a certain amount of ego to believe everything is your fault, that you are that important and influential.
It can also be the result of years and years of being told everything is your fault. No ego, just a lot of guilt and shame over things that had nothing to do with you.
I dunno… could there be such thing as “negative ego”? Kind of like how there’s negative numbers?
I mean, negative numbers denote that space/amount is being depleted/taken, but it’s still an amount. 1 would correlate to a positive unit of 1, whereas -1 would correlate to a negative unit of 1. That sort of thing.
If the perfect ‘normal’ ego is 0, then a positive ego would imply a person feels like they have control over their life and influence over situations. Too high of a positive and the person can be classified as narcissistic, spoiled, and just in general feeling like they not only do have control over everything, but it is divinely ordained that they do or they otherwise ‘deserve’ to have that power. Negative ego would be someone feeling like they don’t have much control over anything other than that maybe their presence invokes things to happen that they are responsible for regardless of their wants or intentions.
So it’d basically be like the first Kickass film, but with all the killing replaced with similarly violent and over-the-top sex scenes?
..actually, I think that’d probably do quite well for itself. It’d basically an ironic, absurdist version of what many people watch the GoT TV show for. 😛
A lot of that is JJ Jameson’s fault. On first meeting him a lot of other heroes assumed he was a bad guy cause they read one to many Daily Bugle headlines
Nah, if they go Office Space on him, they’ll criticize his lack of “flair” on his DeSanto shirt, then steal his stapler while insisting he add a cover sheet to the weekly poll results report!
Bingo. And some seem to forget that Sal is one of those that seems not to go to jail for violent felonies. Even if by ‘jail’ I mean juvenile detention for two counts of armed robbery and whatever holding a knife to Ethan and threatening him is called. Her punishment was being sent to an all-girls boarding school, wasn’t it?
That’s assault, she went to juvie, then she went to boarding school.
Also, don’t say this shit when Amber’s right fucking there. Sal committed Assault (which in layman’s terms, is threatening someone with bodily harm, in this case with a deadly weapon.). Amber committed motherfucking battery (As in, *ACTUALLY CAUSING* bodily harm, in this case with a deadly weapon.)
Sal went to jail for minors, then her parents sent her to boarding school. The first half of that is what’s ‘supposed’ to happen (I doubt Juvie is actually useful, but that’s not the point here.) Amber, who did worse, had nothing done.
I suspect that there is a huge mental health mitigation that you’re ignoring here. I also think that you’ll find that Amber is being punished until this day, if you call ‘unable to be happy or accept being happy’ punishment.
I’m not ignoring shit. In the eyes of the law, Amber’s mental state had not degraded that badly yet; she hadn’t yet had her actual break with reality. She was still capable of determining right and wrong – she lost control of her impulses because of her father’s goading (And longtime abuse), but being goaded into something has basically never done more than very minimal mitigation (and if you think being abused can remotely qualify as a defense, I invite you to look at the legal reality of battered woman’s syndrome and laugh at yourself for your naivete). Not being legally culpable for your actions is *REALLY FUCKING HARD*. I don’t think either of them should have gone to juvenile hall, because that’s not actually useful, but the state could stand to fucking recognize that Sal had been victimized in turn.
And of course, even if Amber’s faculties had problems then, good luck actually claiming that defense successfully in court, or getting a prosecutor to care about it in advance. There’s a reason the insanity plea fails something like 98% of the time, and that reason has something to do with the fact that the country doesn’t take it seriously. Hint: Amber didn’t see consequences for her actions for another reason, one that rhymes with ‘slight’.
tl;dr don’t tell someone who knows exactly how little the insanity plea does for anyone ever (btw if Amber doesn’t have a long documented history of problems it’d never work) that they’re ‘forgetting a mental health mitigation’.
A: it never works
B: It has insanely strict rules on it, because the public is terrified of it ever working for anyone who isn’t ‘really’ mentally ill, which is basically everyone according to the general public
C: when it does work, it’s not actually a mitigation, you just go to a different jail (generally for longer, and with different words)
Honestly, I don’t think there is any decent lawyer (outside of movies), who suggests their client pleas for insanity. As you explained, not only it is a shitty defence, it is NOT the “get out of jail for free” card TV and movies make it out to be.
Yeah, Amber was legally considered capable at the time (hell even now I’m pretty sure she’d STILL be considered legally competent to stand trial because again, insanity defense is insanely limited,) and really she at least should’ve gotten court-ordered counseling or something for that but Blaine continues to have been The Fucking Worst.
(I wouldn’t be surprised if we do hear the “holding someone at knifepoint” part was negotiated out in exchange for Amber not being charged, but the point remains she REALLY needed that therapy then and she needs that therapy now. Sal meanwhile needs someone competent and willing to actually listen rather than talk about what THEY think her issues are.)
Yeah, I didn’t really want to focus on it there, but according to the legal conception of how mental health interacts with your fault in a situation, AG probably doesn’t qualify at all for any but the most light of mitigation (and it would in fact be mitigation – that is, you still get sentenced, it’s just smaller). Like, I want to be clear and say ‘and that’s fucking terrible’, and it is. The law really doesn’t understand how the mind works, probably because we’d have to completely upend our understanding of the law. Precedential law as a whole is not that well equipped for having a foundational principle like that overturned, and nor are, well, people. I sure as fuck have no idea how to rewrite, well, everything. I’m pretty sure we don’t have to rewrite everything to make things better for non-NT folks, mind, but making things great really might require it. And hahahaihavenocluewhattodothere.
But because I know all that, I can be reasonably confident it didn’t play into a fictional prosecutor’s mind (though prosecutors /are/ also people and can at least occasionally feel pity). It’s legitimately not why Amber got off (Though in fairness, afaict we prefer to have the cops kill non-NT people rather than have the prison system do it. I might be underestimating prosecutors’ collective humanity)
Sal’s was more than assault. It was assault and armed robbery, possibly with some other lesser charges and/or variations on assault thrown in. And I’m definitely not saying what Amber did was okay, but the courts would have likely taken into consideration that she was young, traumatized and emotionally distraught when she stabbed Sal.
Also, sadly, in some courts, 14 is old enough to be tried as an adult in a violent crime if the circumstances fit.
All of which is true for sal. But Sal’s the one with a record.
Like, yeah, I know, ‘the courts will bend over backwards to not blame a white person for attacking a black one’. You don’t have to tell me again. I know this.
Juvenile justice systems tend to be geared towards rehabilitation and there are ‘placements’ which are residential schools geared towards children found to be delinquent. They’re not, by and large, a place you want to find yourself, and though they’re not what you’d think of… it wouldn’t be inaccurate to refer to them as boarding schools.
I see. My impression was that it was her parents who decided to send her to Tennessee, since I found “five years in a boarding school in another state” to be an odd punishment for a legal system to dole out, but not for concerned parents who want to put their problem child out of their minds.
What I figured was that Sal avoided being charged for taking Ethan hostage in exchange for Amber avoiding being charged with stabbing Sal, and that she only ended up getting a rap for the one robbery and the second attempted robbery since whenever her past is brought up it’s always “you robbed convenience stores” and not “you threatened to stab someone.”
It could have been part of a deal – therapy & a strict boarding school to avoid actual juvie, along with dropping both Amber’s stabbing and Sal’s hostage taking.
Yeah, but the goal isn’t really punishment so much as bringing kids back into line so that they can go on to be productive members of society.
As far as it being the Walkerton’s idea to go to boarding school… That’s been my impression as well – having an intact, middle class family that is supportive of you sorting your shit out, getting you into therapy and make sure you go, etc. is a huge asset for kids in Sal’s position and instrumental to keeping her out of a juvenile detention facility.
There are a lot of possibilities for what actually happened with Sal. I don’t get the sense that she was Ordered to the boarding school. But it’s feasible. I think it’s more likely that Sal had some Court Ordered counseling, her parents decided to send her to boarding school and maybe she was put on probation for some or all of the period until she graduated?
Also, Spencer, didn’t you used to have the smiling skeleton (undertale) gravatar? This new one is terrifying.
Yeah, I think it’s more likely that the Walkertons sent her. I feel it’s exactly the kind of thing the Walkertons would do, where they send her away and out of mind “for her own good.”
Also, Spencer, didn’t you used to have the smiling skeleton (undertale) gravatar? This new one is terrifying.
say that to my faces not online
(I’ve been on a JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure kick lately
IDK, I’m pretty much just trying to fill in holes since we still don’t know much about what happened. Like I know there’s a whole narrative of “Traumatized white girl lashes out at Evil Black Criminal” but it’s weird to me that Amber could totally swipe a knife and stab a detained suspect and get nothing for it, if only because she made the officers on scene look like incompetent buffoons.
If it comes out that Amber just totally avoided consequences for stabbing Sal, then I can’t really say that’s unrealistic.
So Sal got off lightly because of her family money? Oh, the irony.
More likely it was deal as she may have been a first time offender. Marcie would not have gotten away such a deal as her family could not have afforded boarding school.
Being stabbed in the hand wouldn’t be taken into account for Sal’s sentencing, but it would have earned Amber a slap on the wrist or even a custodial sentence in the UK.
Oh I’m absolutely sure it has, but I’ve already done enough depressing-as-hell googling for one night, and I’d rather hold off on seeing how many results THAT search comes up with.
Going to a catholic boarding school is not getting off lightly in the States. You realize that child abuse (phrased as ‘corporal punishment’) is permitted there, right? And actively, possibly enthusiastically, enacted. She did not just go to some posh random boarding school. She went to a fucking punishment school, the kind that actually takes in kids who’ve done criminal shit without being thrown wads of money.
Technically guessing on its legality in tennessee, but. Seriously, folks, the rich only get to ignore the consequences of their actions if their parents support them entirely. Sal’s clearly and obviously do not.
The country as a whole has not banned it. Doesn’t mean it’s legal in all 50 states. Thankfully, many states took their heads out of that particular perpetually sunless place some time ago.
I am not recalling where, in comic, that it was established that Sal a) went to juvie prior to the Catholic boarding school, or that b) it was a boarding school specially for juvenile criminals. And if you believe that juvie isn’t helpful, then I can’t imagine why being sent to a ‘punishment school’ that will guilt trip them over their sinful nature wouldn’t be equally unhelpful. Especially a boarding school for juvenile criminals with lax enough oversight that Sal could get away with sneaking out for some action on a regular basis.
What I’ve seen in comic makes me think that the Walkertons are wealthy and/or connected enough to have gotten her into this boarding school, possibly as way to reduce other consequences that would have certainly befallen someone of her skin tone without those resources.
How many kids that come out of a juvenile offender boarding school arrive at a university riding a nice sporty motorcycle? (Some universities don’t allow freshmen to have cars, trucks, or motorcycles on campus). Who’s money paid for that bike and the cool outfits to go with it? How did she find the time to learn to ride it (and well enough to save AG in spectacular fashion) while at an allegedly restrictive Catholic boarding school for juvenile offenders?
Sal’s parents don’t support her “entirely”, duh. But I’m thinking their idea of punishment was to send her to that school and then assume that would ‘correct’ her behavior, rather than have an active role in that correction themselves.
W- wha!? Why would you think I think being schooled by people who will, yanno, beat you, is a good or helpful thing? I might, and I’m actually not sure of this one, think it’s less unhelpful than Juvenile Hall, but that’s almost definitely not why she was sent to that school in the first place.
And I really don’t know why you think the Walkertons are wealthy. Now, the rich are pretty immune to real scrutiny sociologically (Read: they won’t generally talk about themselves with people outside their class), but the push to make her one child (that counts) be a doctor, isn’t particularly Rich-coded (It’s usually ‘middle class looking to break into the rich’). Further, when she was trying to get her kid a part, she was apparently going for tiny bit parts, which she arranged herself (The latter is almost as important, it means she didn’t have people to do that for her, and she was dealing with random casting schmucks and not, you know, someone actually important). The Walkertons are well-off, but probably not particularly rich.
As far as a motorcycle, they’re cheaper than cars if they aren’t absurd. She probably didn’t earn it herself, no, but she’s been established as, yanno, sneaking out of that ‘allegedly’ restrictive school if she wanted to do anything. And if you think it’s just the wealthy that can get their kids a pair of vehicles, well… no. (I assume Walky has a car, because he’s American and in Indiana, but damned if I know. He could be enough of a homebody to not care, and he definitely wouldn’t have NEEDED one prior)
Like, there’s really no question they’re well-off. But particularly rich? I doubt it. It helps that neither Walkerton sibling behaves like, well, Billie, nor expects anything from their status (Yet, equally, show blindspots around poverty), which further connotes it’s a bit more average than some of the commentariat thinks. And yes, they did not take ana ctive role in her life. But you know, going out of your way to send someone to a catholic boarding school in a state where child abuse is allowed? That wasn’t just to take a non-active role. That was partially punishment. Though equally in fairness, the tennessee part might just be to justify her southern drawl, and not because it’s legal (Or presumed-legal)
And while being well off definitely let her avoid the worst of being black, it’s still, you know, being Black. Amber is probably middle class, if not as well-off within it, and she seems to have avoided getting so much as a peep. It’s like being black still sucks harder than being white without mountains of money to work with. Not that Sal actually has access to that money – her parents seem unwilling to really swing their class around on her behalf, whatever it is. Just to give her the basics – motor transit (which /is/ a basic in rural america) and a college education. Definitely comfortable, probably not particularly rich.
Gamaran – we have signed it, but we have not ratified it. We do that a LOT. Or throw in a bunch of reservations that mean we don’t actually have to do anything as a result of our accession to the treaty that we wouldn’t have done anyway. It’s also worth noting that a big part of the objection is our flat out refusal to bind ourselves to any recognition to positive rights (entitlement to healthcare, for example) which require the government to actually do something, as opposed to negative rights (ex: freedom of expression) which require government inaction. And amongst my biggest Human Rights law pet peeves.
Increasingly, children are sent directly to adult court for violent offenses in the US. In Wisconsin, violent offenders are automatically sent to adult court as young as 10.Yes, 10 years old. They can petition to be treated as juvies, but the default is to treat them as adults. Major case (Slenderman) currently involves two girls who were 12 at the time who went automatically to adult court and ended up staying there.
Of course, Republicans love this “law and order” approach, since it affects mainly minorities. {sigh}
The case in Wisconsin is kind of special, it was a brutal attempted murder of another 12 year old. Take all the facts into consideration. Being tried as an adult, is different than than being sent to adult prison.
More special than other attempted murders? I mean, why have juvenile courts at all if we’re just going to define everything we feel like actually punishing people for as “special”?
Sal did the right thing. Joyce didn’t want to make a ‘big deal’ of it in the first place – Dotty did (I want to say someone else too). Pointing out the simple, unimpeachable fact that nothing was going to happen (Because it doesn’t) saved Joyce a lot of heartache. Reporting Ryan wasn’t going to make her… is it PTSD? Regardless, it wouldn’t make her better. She needs to go see the therapist that Roz recommended her.
I disagree. Many survivors don’t want to report their assault initially and then regret it. By then, it’s too late and the evidence is gone. It is ultimately the victim’s decision, but I did feel really uncomfortable with Sal pushing her not to report.
Also many survivors find that calling out the person who assaulted them by reporting and/or testifying against them actually does help with PTSD. Joyce absolutely needs counseling and I would never fault someone for not reporting because it can also be extremely traumatic, but please don’t imply that not reporting an assault is the right thing to do or that it can’t be extremely beneficial to the healing process.
I never got a chance to report my abuser and I’m still bitter that that was taken away from me.
I completely agree, but I think “it’s too late and the evidence is gone.” was Sal’s main argument for not reporting. Wether or not she was right is a separate matter.
I reported twice. Both times the cops did nothing, gave me the run-around, and made me feel like a joke. My friends blamed me for not getting the cops to take me more seriously. The trauma from dealing with law enforcement is real. If I had to do it again I wouldn’t.
All of this. Cops unfortunately do not treat rape seriously and unless you have video tape evidence, a confession, 90 male witnesses and a signed affidavit from a religious authority, it’s really a low chance that it even makes trial, much less conviction.
And cops definitely add on to overall suffering and retraumatize survivors, frequently treating them as the ones on trial, disbelieving people who don’t act traumatized in the “right” way, or believing in rape myths like the rapist in the bushes when most rapists are people the victim knows.
I’ve watched a good number of friends report and cops did nothing while also making them feel like shit and blaming them for their assaults. And everyone has seen the scant few that have made it to trial and the way the survivor is often the one on trial as all her outfits, social media activity, sexual history, etc… is pored over as proof of “leading the rapist on”.
Even for ones that have ended in conviction, the survivors frequently get harassed for years for “ruining the life” of the rapist and the rapist frequently spends ludicrously small amounts of time in jail. It’s a terrible situation overall.
In my rape, I made the call not to push for charges. I didn’t know my rapist’s name, I froze instead of fought, even though there were witnesses, there were no cameras and no one apparently saw anything untoward enough to try and help me. So I had nothing to go on and nothing to pursue and I knew my case would be thrown in the circular filing bin and forgotten.
It’s a terrible calculus a lot of survivors have to make and the numbers are absolutely terrible. I don’t blame Sal even a little for her advice. It was unfortunately likely the best advice (Joyce had slept off the drugs, both Joyce and Sarah had assaulted the rapist and that could be used in the trial against them, Joyce had an unsafe home environment that has been proven to be on a hair-trigger for yanking her out of school) and was the only one that seemed to be aware of the terrible calculus too many of us have to take into account.
It doesn’t spare Joyce the trauma, it doesn’t give her closure. It’s not the ideal. But in our world, we don’t get ideal situations because we still can’t get the majority of the country to take rape seriously… hell, to even understand what rape and consent even are or to view the populations that are frequently survivors as people.
“EVERY NIGHT I WALK THE EDGE OF THE ABYSS OF VENGEANCE THAT BLACKENS THE SOUL AND IT IS ANYONE’S GUESS WHETHER I WILL FALL IN AND BECOME THE MONSTER I SOUGHT TO DESTROY”
And then the Amber alter resumes control, beating Amazi-Girl into submission and stuffing her into a mental hallway locker for blatant caps lock abuse.
Slowly, the Wallmart parking lot will become larger and larger, extending its concrete grasp on the whole world, until it’s the only location left in DoA.
…Not gonna lie, the hero-archenemy dynamic that Amazi-Girl and Sal got goin’ is…pretty great, honestly. It’s a hero-villain dynamic like Spider-Man and Norman Osborn’s in “A Death in the Family.” I love this, Willis.
I want so badly for Amazi-girl to kick Ryan’s face in, but also not forget what she said about “everyone” not following Sal around and threatening her. I’m also curious what she will do if the crowd turns on Sal once she leaves.
Marcie is still there, she won’t let anything happen to Sal.
As for AG, I don’t think she’ll actually attack him, unless it is in self defense. She will stop him from getting away if she can, until campus security arrives.
To do what? Ryan isn’t even being accused of a crime, because Joyce won’t report it. They have no reason to do anything to Ryan, unless he attacks Amazi-girl first.
That may not have been Amazi-Girl, in the strictest sense of the word. In any case, I’m pretty sure that you could knock together a fairly consistent story about her being satisfied that Danny was in immediate danger.
Yeah, Amber needed it so she could remain morally in the clear but… well she was still being a stupid violent asshole and I don’t feel bad for her getting kneed in the gut for her troubles.
Oh yeah, I forgot she was there. You’re right, Marcie went let her get hurt.
I’m wondering if Amazi-girl’s morals will let her attack, or at least violently apprehend him. I mean I know she is usually more defensive than offensive, but she does also feel guilt from Joyce.
Which is why I see this as Sal watching her past self walk out into the crowd. Sal has learned the hard way that the system is broken and there’s no justice for those on the bottom.
But we’ve seen in the flashbacks with Leland, that she’s been the AG before. Being warned off by someone more aware of the broken system (Marcie), but still feeling the need to do something if only to remind the abuser that his shit has some consequences even if the system protects him and punishes you for it.
And unfortunately for Sal, the other wrinkle is that she’s had experience with things like police shootings of black individuals without consequence and has seen how the slightest pushback against that has gone.
“The system doesn’t work” always seemed like a pretty lame excuse to me. Try and get them through the system. Doesn’t work? Take matters into your own hands. Or, if that doesn’t float your boat, start with the your-own-hands bit and cut out whining about the system entirely.
Sal is basically saying “let him get away with it”, whether she realizes it or not.
Plenty of workarounds to that. Doesn’t take physical violence to make someone’s life hell. Plenty of ways to frame something in your favor if you do choose to go the violence route.
Personally I’d rather spend time in prison with an assault charge then let someone who hurt a friend of mine go unpunished.
Make it a murder charge if that friend of mine was sexually assaulted.
And even before you get to all that melodramatic violent bullshit, the system isn’t completely broken. Not every rapist walks away. Just because that shitstain Brock Turner got a pathetic sentence doesn’t mean every single one will- that judge isn’t being considered fit for criminal cases anymore, last time I checked.
“I’ll take an eye for an eye, and I won’t give a damn if the world goes blind.” -me, just now (and probably someone else at some point, but that kind of goes for a lot of combinations of words)
I’m absolutely sadistic when it comes to those who would seek out the suffering of the innocent. Even more so when it comes to the people I care about. It’s not about making the world a better place, to me.
From a justice standpoint, the world doesn’t get better by letting bad people get off without punishment. If punishing them doesn’t make the world a better place either, you still haven’t lost anything.
“I sometime fancy myself an evil which exists to oppose other evils… and on that Great Day of which prophets speak but in which they do not truly believe, on that day when the world is completely cleansed of evil, then I, too, will go down into darkness, swallowing curses. Perhaps even sooner than that, I now judge. But whatever… Until that time, I shall not wash my hands nor let them hang useless.”
-Corwin, The Guns of Avalon
sorry 7% of rapists who had charges placed upon them, theres countless who get off scott free bc the child or woman who got raped couldnt deal w/ the backlash or didnt understand what happened and didnt report it, kill rapists
And only about 4% of rapists whose survivors seek post-rape services (not even close to 100% actually get to the point of having an arrest made, and that’s not even the percentage who go to trial and have formal charges. Here’s a report from one of the more responsive law enforcement agencies, places like LA are much worse and it’s even worse in small towns without oversight: https://www.sanmateocourt.org/documents/grand_jury/2003/SexualAssaultCasesInSanMateoCounty.pdf
That number compared to those arrested is only about 20%.
So all total, the chances of having a rapist get locked up at all is AT MAX:
.0056% (no, didn’t misplace a decimal place there).
Brock Turner is the exception. But only because it’s shocking that a rapist even makes it behind bars and has the conviction marking his crime as having occurred.
For those who do make it behind bars, his sentence is slightly exaggerated but fairly typical. Prison sentences for most forms of rape don’t typically last longer than a handful of years and frequently arrests for possession of marijuana or for vandalism carry longer minimum sentences than the typical maximum for sexual assault).
I have no idea where you’re getting your numbers from so I’m going to just link to the RAINN statistics for the US. Which doesn’t address the vast differences between jurisdictions, but does have lots of statistics and infographics comparing conviction rates to other forms of crime: https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
Page 12 of my link, the graphic titled: “SEXUAL ASSAULT STATISTICS FOR SAN MATEO COUNTY – EXHIBIT 4”
2002 data, total trauma services compared to reported rapes and reported rapes compared to arrests.
Also, I’m a liar. I totally misplaced the decimal place. It’s 0.056%. RAINN’s data puts it at .6% overall, but tends to undercount a lot to try and get a conservative estimate.
Still, it is noteworthy that even at best, the numbers still don’t make it to a full 1%.
I’ve done a bunch of research into this subject over the years owing to general activism on consent.
Which isn’t meant as a dig, just an explanation of why I randomly have studies like this laying around in my bookmarks. Honestly, it’s all super useful for when I’m teaching Stats, because the best Stats subjects are the ones the students can feel properly horrified by after they finish their math (content warnings definitely pre-screened in advance).
Cerberus- it’s cool. I didn’t take it for a dog. I’m actually really glad you explained and pointed to the right page because otherwise it’s a 75 page from a random county which may or may not be representative.
The “system” is more often than not not distributing justice… for a justice system that more or less means broken in this regard. I don’t disagree that rape and sexual assault should still be reported, but expecting justice is a fairly big stretch.
I completely agree that people should definitely report rape and sexual assault. But the system absolutely is broken.
There was John Enochs, who back in June was convicted of raping TWO women (at Indiana University, coincidentally), and he will spend one day in jail. One. Fucking. Day.
Or there’s David Becker, who was also convicted of raping two different women, and will receive no jail time. He’ll be put on probation and not even have to register as a sex offender. Because the judge wanted him to be able to go to college.
I would consider the system broken if it allowed that shit to happen once in a decade, but it happens over and over and over.
Turner might get attention because his case is extreme, but not that extreme. For every case we hear about, there are many more that are almost as abysmal. Some are even worse, but because of the timing, end up being a footnote on the story of another case that caught people’s attention a little sooner. On top of all that are the cases that don’t even get convictions, and all the cases that don’t even get brought to trial, where the charges that get thrown out entirely, or just dropped because so much burden is placed on the victim that they are forced to choose between seeking justice or preserving their mental health.
Yes, people need to keep reporting it and they need to keep trying, but we have a long ass way to go before we can say the system is working how it should be.
I see the justice system as a sewage pipe. (And by that, I mean I thought up this metaphor about half an hour ago and it’s like three in the morning so don’t judge me) (If any engineers see my metaphor and for some reason it’s not up to par, take care to note that I know jack all about pipes)
In a perfect world, all the shit would go down the pipe. It’d be a very shiny pipe. Not so much as a scuff mark on it.
We don’t live in a perfect world, so it’s understandable that the pipe is rusty.
We live in a very much imperfect world, so the pipe has a few holes in it. Some of them are bigger than others- right near the toilet, there’s this one hole that lets out every single poo that isn’t reported. (This metaphor isn’t all that great, now that I think about it.)
Dropping most of the pipe wording, what I mean by this shitty little metaphor (is this too serious a subject for puns? I’d like to lighten the mood so I don’t seem like an ass again (see the semi-final strip of book six… or don’t, I’m not fond of the memory) but I feel I might be going a little far and anyway imma stop rambling now) is that the system has holes. It isn’t a perfect system. But on the other hand, a lot of people try to make it out as if it were a pipe that was cut entirely in half and every single poo was escaping.
Okay, okay, seriously dropping the pipe metaphor this time because it’s idiotic. I’m really bad with metaphors, not sure why I always gravitate towards using them.
Basically I’m saying I totally agree with you- the system is EXTREMELY FAR from flawless. I would even totally support using the term broken, if it weren’t for my next point.
However, as you said yourself, (specifically regarding Fart Captor here, although this entire thing is basically a reply to all y’all) these things still need to be reported. The system should still be tried, because sometimes it still works. I’m not going to say most of the time, I’m not going to say rarely, and I’m certainly not going to bring up statistics. For all the good you can do with them, you can also do a lot of harm. All too often one statistic can bend one’s perception when another would even it out, and it would take a smarter man than I to tell you which ones you’d need to provide to give an accurate view.
The “next point” I made mention of is that too many people call it off as a broken system, and because of that you have people like Sal- not wanting to report it in the first place. Not wanting to try that system.
The pessimistic attitude towards our legal system is part of what leads to the shitty world we live in, where judges and cops are commonly considered the bad guys. Wherever issues exist, both points need to be stated fairly or the end result will be one extreme or the other- and they will almost always be worse than before.
The system is not irredeemable. We don’t need to tear it down and replace it with something completely different (though with the number of flaws it has you could almost make the claim that fixing it would be doing just that). There are many good aspects of the bare structure that should be left in place, it’s just that the current implementation has a lot of downright horrible problems.
Cops are assholes in general, but to take the mad libertarian stance and take the whole system apart? That’s nuts. It leaves you prone to the person holding the most guns.
But the shoulds that you’re saying here? Who pays for this? Do you have ANY IDEA how the majority (and yes, majority, I’ve been a sexual assault survivor advocate for 17 years) treat survivors? Do you know the things that attorneys and judges and police officers are nearly garaunteed to say to a 18 year old at a party with alcohol in her first month of college? Do you know what it’s like to blame yourself for “putting myself in that situation” (which is bullshit but how rape culture works) and then to have people doubt you, mock you, and call you a liar?
The process of reporting, for some survivors, is like being raped again. So fuck “should.” They should protect and care for themselves, whatever that looks like.
I suppose I’ve been too busy hanging out with the minority, then.
I have no reason to call you a liar, so I’m therefore inclined to believe that you’re saying things accurately. If you’re saying things accurately, then I really don’t have an argument against your points.
But nevertheless, your way involves letting rapists go free. They’ll have more victims. They’ll go completely unpunished. They’ll probably think they’re living pretty good lives.
And that idea? Some motherfucker like that going on about their business? That pisses me off more than anything.
I’ve never claimed to have all the answers, but someone has to have an answer to this problem. It’s a problem we all like to call out as being a problem, but nobody ever wants to bring up solutions.
That’s why I will continue to say that sexual assault needs to be reported. If it wasn’t, even when a solution eventually comes up- even when the system is fixed- nobody will want to report it. They’ll continue to live in fear. I can’t abide that.
Lin is right. That’s the typical result. One of my friends had what would be considered the perfect case. Outside, by a stranger, in front of a public place, lots of witnesses, heavily marginalized offender (he was black and homeless).
Cops still spent the entire time while getting her statement trying to make it out like she must have consented to it and called her a liar and a slut because she had seen the guy on the bus twice before and apparently that was proof of a close friendship and consent. The cop also frequently told her that the case was going to go nowhere and was she sure she wanted to file a report knowing that it was going to go nowhere because she didn’t have a name or an address.
And that interaction is not atypical for cops investigating sexual assault reports.
And yeah, there’s no good solution. And rapists are going free. And it’s just gonna be that way until we fix the underlying problems that put the rape survivor instead of the offender on trial in rape trials, that lead to wild disinformation as to what rape is or that one can do something to “deserve it”, that lead to folks believing rape myths, that lead to folks not believing and trusting survivors and viewing fake rape accusations as a real thing that happens any more frequently than any other fake accusation of a crime.
And so the current ways to best combat that are the least sexy. They don’t involve survivors suffering for years on the vain hope that their rapist will see a jail cell and dealing with years of abuse for ever “daring to accuse a good man”. They don’t involve just beating them up (despite how satisfying that is).
They involve slow work educating everyone on consent, calling out bad behavior, increasing bystander intervention, increasing survivor support resources, and just generally getting more educated and better about rape.
Changing the culture to change the world and system to give rape reporters a fighting chance in the future.
Yeah, at this point trying to continue my side of the argument would actually just be me being stubborn. You’ve won me over, the system needs more than a bit of duct tape.
No. No, it was genuinely not. I mean, inasmuch as getting released 3 months after is, sure. In that ‘nothing of consequence happened to him’, brock turner is the norm. The successful prosecution rates for rape look good, if you don’t actually know anything about the criminal justice system, but it’s in the neighborhood of 70%. For reference, the overall prosecution rate (IE if it gets to trial, does the defendant get found guilty) is 95%. But most rape cases are thrown out before trial, because ultimately most rape case law is inherited from the common law, and the common law didn’t think women’s word was worth anything, much less in regards to rape (For more than 600 years, white dudes have been insisting that women would just lie if they were taken seriously by the law). Those cases can’t reasonably be won, so prosecutors don’t even bother trying. They can’t win, so they’d rather nail someone they have an actual shot with (It’s worth noting that 95+% statistic is what they’re /graded/ on, as public servants. But there’s also the simple fact that the court’s resources are ‘better spent’ somewhere where a conviction is actually in the cards).
Spoken like a man who likely has little to fear of ever being raped himself and doesn’t understand what rape actually is and what it does to the person who is raped. You probably think it’s “just sex” that decided to “jump the queu” in regards to that silly little notion often referred to as ‘consent’, and that things like “implied consent” exist in regards to situations that involve “just sex”.
The only thing I’ll correct Her about is that her percentage is wrong. Last I checked, the actual percentage of CHARGED rapists who serve even a few hours in jail is around 3%.
Why such a low number? Because usually the first thing cops ask when a victim reports their rape was “were you drinking?” followed up with “how much did you drink?” or “why were you alone?” or some derivative thereof that essentially implies “Well, you’re certainly a fucking idiot and you should have expected to get violated. How dare you make me late getting home having to report on something you brought upon yourself”.
But, again, you can’t possibly even fathom what such horrible shame feels like, and that even though your body is in agonizing pain and you’re terrified of the world and the people in it, that feeling like you’ve been tortured and that no one cares is PREFERABLE to being browbeaten into feeling absolutely worthless by a system filled with people that make you play your trauma over and over again on repeat.
No offense meant, as this is obviously a touchy topic, but I don’t see why you’re assuming that trlkly is the kind of guy who believes that about rape.
I see Amazi-Girl corralling Ryan and, if he resists, possibly delivering a little justifiable physical violence in the process of detaining him. She then leaves him trussed up in much the same way that Dina delivered Faz to Ruth, along with a note reading “Courtesy of your friendly campus Amazi-Girl”.
bruh nothin happens to rapists in a court of law they could film themselves raping someone post it online then apologize and get off scott free and the the victim has to live w/ relentless bullying and shit bc of victim blaming and rape culture the only way to deal w/ a rapist is to kill them
If you care about literally anything but making rapists lives hell, the absolute last thing you want to do is erode the rule of law in regards to murder. I, for one, do not need more reasons to worry about being killed (Hint: I’m not saying this because I’m a rapist, I’m saying this because the rule of law is one of the few things that keeps me alive. Not the justice system or police, but the belief the system is just and if I do evil things, which of course I am, for about a thousand reasons, I will be punished)
lailah… im twoc who lives in canadas asshole where our police is responsible for 40 000 missing and murdered native american women and our previous gov when approached by this said its not a priority and our current gov does nothing but travel and take selfies believe me i know what its like to have the ppl who enforce the “justice system” want you dead however as a rape victim i have every right to believe that rapists need to die
No. You do not have the right to erode the rule of law further. You flatly fucking don’t. You are hurting enormous swathes of the population, and you aren’t even helping yourself, or future rape victims. Shit, as a TWOC you’re just setting the stage to get yourself murdered too. The police kill you too? Fucking great, same. But the police aren’t as fucking scary as the mass of fucking citizens, empowered to believe they’re allowed to kill you; there are a lot fucking more of them than there are of cops, and even iwthout a massive gun culture, if they want to see you dead, they absolutely can and will. You do NOT fucking benefit here, same as I don’t. I will not see you erode that protection for the rest of us, much less to do fucking nothing.
your reading very liberal here so ill make this crystal clear for you, the government aint your friend pigs aint your friend and neither is anyone who wont do anything for you while knowing that youd do anything for them for some that erodes family for others it excludes most except family
I’m not saying the government is my friend. I’m saying as long as white cishets believe the government works, they won’t murder me. You are not understanding the argument. The Rule of law doesn’t only protect you if the police care about you. IT protects you as long as it’s actually a thing, and the literal rule of the law calls for your death. If you are outlawed, you need to fucking run, and fast. But if you aren’t, it’s /still/ better than dealing with both racist police /and/ every racist tom, dick, and mary. Even if just Dick decides he’s law abiding and will wait for the police to catch up, that benefits you /immensely/. You do NOT want the strictures on murder lifted. That goes well for the numerical majority. That isn’t you.
Trying to make what Lailah is saying clearer, if rule of law for rape is revoked, and it suddenly becomes ok to kill rapists, you can bet your soul that within minutes, some women will kill innocent men that they hate for some reason by pointing at them and crying “rapist!”
@Pylgrim, I don’t actually think that’s the point. Rule of Law is a core concept to the idea of a fair justice/legal system. Just the very idea of its existence regardless of the truth of its implementation provides people, who would otherwise be targeted for a variety of reasons, some form of protection. Mob-Justice and Majority Rule lead to all sorts of nasty things and Rule of Law is the idea that, in theory, helps to prevent that. (among other things).
Basically, people believing that they will face repercussions from their actions keeps some of those people from murdering me, even if they might not actually face repercussions from their actions.
I actually wasn’t even thinking of dudes, but considering rape was a common claim for the lynchings of black and hispanic people in the US, yeah, them too. But given who I was talking to, I figured I’d go ahead and point out it’s her too.
Ah, and yes, Ety has the long and short of it. As long as the law doesn’t hate you too badly, enough to actually proscribe you, it’s STILL better for you than both the Law *AND* the potential mob. Frankly it keeps me up at night. I’m not sure if I’m actually making my life and those of others worse by saying the law comes up short. I think the people who might take me seriously aren’t actually inclined to mob justice, but fuck, what if I’m wrong? And anyone engaging in it weakens things for me, at least slightly
It’s actually not that Dick thinks the law will punish him. It’s that Dick is sure the law will punish ME if I step out of line. *THAT* is an extremely hard won protection.
I mean, Dick may also believe that he’ll be punished, but even if he doesn’t, if he can count on the law to fuck me up if I step out of line, he’ll be less inclined to take matters into his own hands. The system works, and I’ll be punished if (when) I do something wrong. It’s a protection from the mob that even a marginally functional system (and that is definitely what we have) fosters. It’s the bare minimum, but damned if it isn’t more than fucking nothing.
TWOC = Taken Without Owner’s Consent, so far as I know. If you intend it to mean something else, please provide the English translation for those of us who are not into your jargon.
Note: I don’t want this to come across as minimizing the problem; even if the true number is the lowest one quoted it’s still terrible, and a disgrace.
I think she is aware of it but in her own internal story, she has to have faith in the system in order to be “morally right”. She is basically a female batman and the vigilante hero attitude says that they can help the cops out a lot but ultimately it is the police’s responsibility.
I mean, this is at least somewhat better than letting Ryan just walk around. Even if nothing comes out of it, he is getting “outed” as a rapist, so… something?
and the fact that people deny that this kind of shit exists or just don’t give a shit about these cases because hey, first world country, get over it, all lives matter etc just gives me a headache
That’s a cop-out, at this point. Either Ryan DOES get arrested and the system actually works, Ryan scoots scot-free, or he dies. The first two make no narrative sense.
I think Sal will be fine. Marcie is there and in uniform. If there is one thing a conservative crowd is generally good at is respecting a white (or white-ish) authority figure.
Huh, so either the racist crowd surrounding Sal was not very big or they are doing a power-walk + ignoring combo that also works very well to discourage cowardly bigots, maybe a combination of both.
Man, that’s a tough question for Sal, though fairly brought up since Sal is the one that said vigilante-style violence is not the solution
Power-walk+ignorance combo is my guess. Plus, I’ll bet some superhero fan is putting together a “testing a possible sidekick” narrative in their head now that they see Sal and AmaziGirl apparently working together.
Yeah, power-walk was my guess, with the crowd angrily trying to figure out what’s going on and why the superhero lady isn’t going after the target they want. I’m expecting them to get considerably less friendly when they see AG going after the nice white boy helping out the campaign instead of the “obvious thug” in all the dog-whistle meaning of that term.
Did Sal ever do any kind of jail time (Juvie hall, probation, whatever) for robbery and taking someone hostage at knife point? Sal’s comment makes me wonder about that.
Probably citing something like that while it was after the fact, it was a reaction/retaliation to seeing her friend held at knifepoint. Though I don’t know if been said in-comic, but I think I’ve seen it theorized in the comments that Sal getting stabbed by one of the victims may have been ‘helpful’, in the sense that she’s already received some form of punishment.
Amber should have received something, there was mention of her father being pressured to have her go to Psych Therapy/Counseling but refusing.
I do agree about that, Amber did assault Sal and that should have been handled in court. But then again living with her father was apparently a form of hell. So I wouldn’t say she got off easy.
I don’t know the whole story, maybe there is more we have yet to learn about as far as what happened afterwards.
I can’t remember a place in-comic that specified what happened, but we know from what she said to Amazigirl after the chase/rescue that she has a record.
There’s a simple way to remove white privilege from a person- face tattoo. The system never has and never will treat a person with face tattoos like a member of the good ol’ boys club.
It’d probably have been a tight tossup between O’Malley and Sanders, with the super delegates favoring O’Malley (who, in all honesty, would have been a better choice than Clinton at the least). Meanwhile Jeb Bush was the least onerous candidate on the Republican side and would have likely stood a fighting chance without Trump running and would have had a better chance at the office among the swing vote than Sanders or O’Malley, all of which is obscenely painful for me to have to say.
Ehhh…depending on the family sometimes only for a couple of generations, but I do find that pretty accurate. Especially considering the Sicilian Mafia may have at least partial roots in the Norman conquest…
Just butting in: basically nobody agrees on when the Sicilian Mafia started. Some say it has its roots in the Norman conquest as you said, other believe it emerged during the Borbonic rule, some propose it began in the XII century…
It doesn’t help that the Italian state started defining *what* Mafia is (and therefore actually recognising that it existed) only in 1982.
We believe the worst about our own government, and are spoon fed the idea that we “got it right”, ergo, if our form of government is bad every other government or form thereof must be even worse. It’s actually a somewhat toxic world view that causes a lot of problems within our own society.
We didn’t just get it right, we got it right 200 years ago the first try with absolutely no need to reassess what was there in the first place. So goes the national myth. Whenever someone tells you the constitution is a living document, feel free to laugh in their face.
Hell, modern Somali piracy actually started because large fishing companies were illegally fishing in Somalian waters, keeping the local fishermen from actually making a living in the process. The Somalian government doesn’t have any real authority or even exist because of the massive mess of warlords, so the fishermen decided to start hijacking ships and bringing the crews in to be fined by a local village council. Said companies then found it was faster and drew less attention (because they didn’t want people looking to closely at what they were doing) if they just paid off said hijackers. And because the companies could give bigger payoffs than those village councils, piracy became a very, very profitable but incredibly risky venture. And could be applied to more than just industrial fishing haulers due to the extent of shipping traffic on the Red Sea…
I was actually thinking of regular ol’ individual crimes, like how AG wants to beat up Ryan because the police are unlikely to help at all. Also, all forms of revenge. And suicide among oppressed groups. But yes, organized crime, too.
A little while ago I came across startling figures about violence and class (in Steven Pinker’s The Better Angels of Our Nature (ISBN 978-0-14-312201-2) p.81 ff.). These seem to show that as the State began to enforce a domestic peace (i.e. to prosecute murder as a crime instead of leaving it to the vengeance of the victims’ friends and families) the aristocracy and then the middle class started to become less violent long before those poorer and less powerful. Which would be odd if the effect of law enforcement were deterring crime. The rich enjoyed considerable impunity, as always, and the poor were punished most certainly and most severely, as always. If deterrence were doing the business the poor would have been pacified first because they were punished first and most severely; the aristocracy would have been untouched until about 1740, when the law really started to apply against them. But in fact violence among the wealthy began to decline in the late 13th Century, among the Middle class from about the 17th Century, and among the poor in the late 18th Century—which is not when the law started punishing their crimes, but when it started protecting them.
I think this casts an interesting light on the geographical, socio-economic, and racial patterns of crime in the USA.
Just an aside, Pinker’s Better Angels of our nature is considered utter hackwork amid actual social scientists – it’s no wonder the stats would be shocking – the book is full of cherry picking and bullshitting.
I am completely baffled by her logic.
If Joyce isn’t willing to testify then they have no case against him (in this one instance). And since you can’t expose him the only solution is to what, kill him?
Joyce has already tried not reporting him, in the hopes that she could forget all about the whole thing, but now knows that this only made her more scared. She might be convinced to report him, which is complicated. Others may corroborate and/or come forward with their own experiences.
And/or, AG could just beat the snot out of him.
The goal is that Ryan won’t attempt to rape people anymore.
I honestly find mob justice to be too quick to violence to the wrong person, but if anyone deserves to be harassed for the rest of his life it’s that bastard.
Killing him or at least putting him in the hospital, while unethical, would make more sense than just beating him up again. He can’t offend if he’s dead, but he was already beaten up really badly so I’m not sure what doing it again will solve other than making Amazi-Girl feel better (to be fair, I’ll feel good too).
I guess coercing a confession would be one way, but Joyce hasn’t really expressed any desire to press charges, so I dunno how bringing him to justice for that would even work.
To me, it feels like for Joyce to get closure, Ryan would have to face legal repercussions. However, with the way the courts are, that would’ve been unlikely even if they had taken him to the police with the roofied Sierra Mist and the witnesses the night of. I don’t understand how this Amazi-Girl solution will work at all.
I’m finding a lot of commenters here who – based on the demographics of this comic alone – would probably loudly and ostentatiously advocate for rehabilitating criminals instead of punishing them when asked.
Unless it’s accused rapists we’re talking about, of course. Then they’ll toss their lofty, First World, I-eat-with-a-fork-and-knife ideals through the window and yell for heads to roll without the drudgery of a trial as loud as any religious conservative mouth-breather.
I’m not scared of them, though. I just experience some odd mix of pity and disgust.
Gee, you think that might have anything to do with the woefully tiny percentage of rapists that ever see the inside of a prison, or the frankly horrifying percentage of rapists that are repeat offenders, some many times over? Fuck off with this high horse bullshit.
I do in fact prefer rehabilitation over punishment. I would also prefer rapists rot in a tiny cell for the rest of their lives, rather than either be executed OR let off on probation (as they seem to be now). If I actually believed rapists could be rehabilitated, I’d be all for that. Not for letting them out of jail though, because their victims deserve the peace of mind provided by steel bars and reinforced concrete.
All the same, fuck you, you condescending, holier-than-thou douchebag.
“I do in fact prefer rehabilitation over punishment.” I absolutely share the sentiment in all regards. I also happen to think that rehabilitation is the last concern of the US justice/prison system.
Yanno, I got robbed at knifepoint a while ago. Dude tricked me into pulling my car over – threw a ball of some sort after I turned a corner – I pulled over to check what it was, next thing I know this asshole opens my door and tells me and my passengers to hand out wallets over.
I managed to kick him right in fucking gut, slam the door and GTFO. Police got prints off the car, arrested him and then had to let him go because neither of us could positively identify him from a photo roll.
I’m pretty sure that it’s a pretty common story and most crimes of the sort go unsolved. Should I be frothing at the mouth and insisting they throw him into gaol based on the prints alone?
One of my friends lives about 500 meters away from the scene. He swears he saw the guy while leaving for work and that the guy recognized him. What about his peace of mind?
Oh and sorry if I sounded condescending. I was trying to communicate regular old contempt, but text has its limitations, obviously.
Yeah, I can appreciate wanting to uphold the rule of law and not supporting straight up murdering people on the street. I agree that we should avoid that if at all possible.
But you absolutely need to understand that rape is an entire different category of thing. If that guy had stabbed you repeatedly and left you to die as he drove off in your car, and when you went the police, you could had to jump through hoops to convince them that you didn’t WANT to be stabbed, THEN you would have some grounds to compare your experience.
Even then, at that level of horrible experience, condescension is still not okay. You can always disagree with people of course, but have some fucking respect about it when it comes to subjects like rape.
I think a fair amount of the commenters calling for their heads (either one, possibly) have either been the target, are part of a group that are targets, or have friends/family that are victims of rape. Plus it can be a cultural thing, beliefs over which crime is worse than another, or even if it’s a crime, can vary.
I remember seeing a news report about how a teenage couple (male/female) were on a bus, heading home, in India. It was late/after dark, and both of them were raped by like half a dozen guys on the bus. The driver was forced to raped them, lest he himself be raped. While he expressed sorrow over what happened, others didn’t. After they were released, one of them had stated that they (the victims) had deserved it, and it was his right to rape them. This was a learned cultural thing, to my understanding. “They’re out late? That means I can fuck them.”
The whole thing is just disgusting. Barely halfway through the comments here, may just skip down to Cerberus’s critique and call it.
Yes. Yes, actually, killing people without an overriding need is wrong. I mean, eroding the rule of law has consequences far beyond whatever you seem to believe is the case. But also, without actual need, killing people is wrong. If you aren’t defending yourself directly and in the immediate, you are not doing good things by killing someone. You don’t fucking kill people.
I dunno, Joyce has gotten progressively more and more badass since the party. She might be up for taking his ass down.
Joyce’s case on its own doesn’t seem promising, but AG could try tailing him for a while, and try to catch him in the act. It’d be a long shot, but definitely more likely to be admissible in court than beating a confession out of him.
Amber could also rape Ryan, which would be poetic justice….but I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Willis isn’t going to have “and then the protagonist heroically and comically rapes a character in a feel-good moment” in his comic notes, so killing it is.
Joyce isn’t pressing charges tonight (she’s in bed, for one), and we’ve established that he’d get off without punishment even if she did. No one’s going to remember Brock Turner in a year, and any kind of public shaming on Ryan wouldn’t have much effect for the same reason. Beating him up again accomplishes nothing.
I guess the endgame could be Sal talking Amber out of killing Ryan, and the plot does seem to be dovetailing in that direction nicely, but I really just want to see a bad thing happen to a bad person for once, even a fictional one. I want Ryan to suffer to the point where everyone gets uncomfortable reading it.
Yeah, that came out way weirder than I meant for it to.
Willis probably won’t have a comedic/heroic rape scene because *it’s stupid and awful*. I didn’t mean to imply that he should. I just meant the options were
A. Nonviolent solutions (ruled out by today’s strip)
B. Killing Ryan (Unlikely but satisfying)
C. Ironic fate worse than death (can be ruled out because it’s weird and unsettling)
D. Sal talks Amazi-Girl out of killing Ryan (Most likely outcome because the Amber storyline’s been building to it)
rape is 100% worse than murder, w/ murder thats it their dead with rape… you remember that shit ok lets put it that way id rather be murdered than be raped again
Should we think Brock Turner less of a monster if he had murdered a drunk woman in an alley? Should I think of murdering a rape victim as an act of mercy? As a kindness bestowed on the suffering? 14 years ago, when my friend was raped by her boyfriend in a park, should I have put her out of her misery?
I cannot begin to understand the horror that is being raped. I am deeply sorry that you do. But I also hope that you being here to type that comment means that you are still able to find some purpose in living, to have the potential to heal if only a little, to find a reason that living to see tomorrow is better than ending your life today.
I don’t particularly support the idea of killing someone as a form of justice, though I can agree that sometimes, some people just need to die. I don’t, however, support death as a punishment for rape in the general case, but I do understand people who feel that way.
@Her: Sorry, my comment was ambiguous because I didn’t notice the thread’s to that point where the reply link disappears. I was talking to foamy. (I don’t always double-check that stuff when I’m angry.)
In fairness to us bloodthirsty readers, there’s a distinction to be made here between real-life rapists, who are awful people but still people, and Ryan, who is a fictional 100% evil character we have a god’s eye view of.
It’s entirely possible (even likely?) that Amber takes the moral high road and is rewarded by Ryan accidentally being hit by a truck or something.
Having personally known multiple people who have been raped and having seen what it did to them and what they went through…. I wouldn’t be so quick to agree with you.
Being against capital punishment is completely reasonable, but I think we can all agree that if anything warrants the death penalty, it would probably be rape.
Fundamentally, my complaint is with the use of and idea that murder is the absolute worst thing one can possibly do to another. That idea is more or less the foundation of our justice system too.
ety: It is pretty central, yes, and the reason for it is pretty simple: death is irrevocable.
Saying rape is worse than murder suggests that someone who is raped can never move beyond it, never have another happy moment, never contribute anything to the world, won’t be missed by friends or family, and suggests that victims of it should suicide.
…oh gfdi, then I posted in the wrong place. Reposting in the right one:
@Her: Sorry, my comment was ambiguous because I didn’t notice the thread’s to that point where the reply link disappears. I was talking to foamy. (I don’t always double-check that stuff when I’m angry.)
foamy: I understand what you are trying to say, but honestly:
“someone who is raped can never move beyond it, never have another happy moment, never contribute anything to the world, won’t be missed by friends or family,”
that part there is far more disturbingly accurate a description of what they go through than I want to be aware of.
I don’t even want to attempt to express what it does to the victim. I don’t have the wherewithal nor the position to do justice to that side of things because I am not one, but the person they were very nearly might as well be dead and then on top of that the person(“shell of”) left behind has to deal with all the horrible trauma and shattered remains of a life.
Yeah, they can and even do recover and get better and live full lives afterwards (and I’ve seen that too there is absolutely hope), but just because that is still possible doesn’t mean that what happened to them is not worse than death.
Unless the very fact of your life, your existence, is the only important thing to you, there are things worse than death.
@ety hey if the girls who had their rapes blasted online in video format survived i can too just gotta move outta the house that one of my rapists shares w/ me cause thats not something thats ever punished, family rapes
also @ety im never “okay” im functioning at best bc thats the shape my traumas taken i dont know if ill ever be able to “move beyond” being a rape victim esp bc of how many times and how violent my rapes were i can barely be around people most days how joyce was able to share a room letalone her bed and not be freaking out is something i cant do yet bc traumas fuckin like that memories are fucking like that fear is fucking like that but like based on foamys comments im just letting myself be a shell of a human like sorry but this is what my lifes been like since i was 5 fuckin years old the people who move on dont move on bc rape isnt worse than being murdered they move on bc the rapist was killed or put behind bars for the rest of their life and even then theres still flashbacks and faces that *look similar* to the person who destroyed you theres still nights where you cant do anything but sit and stare at a wall until something forces you to move bc you just cant function that day
@foamy mayb try not talkin over rape victims on something that you literally dont understand
ety: You can’t get better if you’re dead. Death is the end. It deprives you of everything, forever. It deprives everyone of you, forever. There’s no second chances.
For what it’s worth, I come at this from the perspective of someone who survived a suicide attempt. My thinking is heavily influenced by that.
@foamy you survived a suicide attempt im sorry to hear that youve been through that, however, ive been raped how many suicide attempts d’ya think ive made? probably a lot? probably more than id care to admit to strangers before i have therapy tomorrow? maybe you should get ya foot outta your mouth and stop talkin about something you literally dont understand, mayb stop talkin over someone who probably knows a fuckton of a lot more on this subject than you ever will
Like, if any survivor ever got better, and some have, that… that means it’s better than death. The number of people who got better after dying is 0. I don’t knwo what that number is for rape, but it’s higher than 0, and I know /that/ because I know at least two survivors who lead happy-ish lives. If it didn’t get better for you, I’m sorry, but that is not going to change things for the rest of humanity. Odds might be slim, but they’re not 0. Death, not so much.
@foamy: okay, yeah, I can understand your perspective on this and why it is what it is. Your opinion on death being the worst thing that can happen to someone is perfectly valid, but it’s also a debatable one. Just because someone “can” get better doesn’t mean that the place they get better from is not worse than death. It’s a matter of opinion and really more of a philosophical debate at this point and neither side is definitely nor completely wrong and @Her.’s opinion is just as valid and just as reasonable.
IS DEATH THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO A PERSON?
It isn’t a black and white question. “You can get better from anything that isn’t death.” is one way of looking at it, but it isn’t the only way of looking at it.
Or rather, you work on long term solutions that address the actual fucking problem. You try to reform society, and reform the justice system. The shit that might actually make people’s lives better. Not the fucking comic book version of events.
“You try to reform society, and reform the justice system.” I don’t disagree with the idea, but that is (likely) well more than a single lifetime’s full commitment and complete devotion. I wouldn’t blame someone for being pessimistic about the prospects.
Yes, it’s harder than just lashing out at people, I’m aware of this. It also frequently doesn’t work or makes you a target. It’s also the actual way to try to get do something useful. It’s the actual response to “I can’t do nothing.” Hitting someone is still doing nothing. This still might amount to nothing, but at least it might not.
Yup, how things actually change tends to feel hella thankless and feel like death by a thousand cuts. And how frustrating that sounds is also why a lot of activists can be a bit snippy. Because we know how bad things are and typically are used to having to do the same arguments and fights over and over again in the effort to slowly roll the boulder of culture one step closer to justice.
I guess this is the closest Sal gets to getting called out on talking Joyce out of pressing charges.
(And yes, I know the arguments against pressing charges. I’m still pissed at Sal over that.)
Joyce also didn’t want to press charges, because she felt that it would cause her parents to find out what happened, and pull her out of school as a consequence.
Yeah, that comes into play as well, but there were some people who gave her reasons to press charges, and others who told her it was best not to. Sal was on the latter camp. Not saying she’s *responsible* for Joyce’s actions but she at least did support her not pressing charges. Not saying she should feel guilty forever but it may be good for her to see someone that is aware of how the system works and still tries to see a person who did an illegal thing face the consequences.
I felt Sal pushed more for acknowledging that it was a valid option, and that it should be up to Joyce, because Sal does know how the system works, she’s seen it. And since Joyce’s fear that her parents would pull her from school definitely seemed well-founded, and they’d already waited long enough to hurt the odds of success, I can’t say she was wrong.
Not really. Sal’s point was that the cops wouldn’t help because they’re all just pricks and that the only real way to deal with it was to kick his ass themselves.
Sal also made the point that both Sarah and Joyce were going to just turn up an cop to aggravated assault (though they were at least partially justified), but without other evidence, making them likely to have charges pressed against them. I mean, can you imagine how Sarah would have fared?
Yeah. I thought of that moment as a serious mistake on Sal’s part, that she was letting her “must be hardcore rebel” shtick interfere with getting Joyce help, but in hindsight and seeing more of Sal’s own experiences, she really wasn’t wrong. They might have had a shot if they did it there and then, but otherwise, well, you’re right that Sarah was probably going to get in more shit than anybody.
I wouldn’t have noticed the name thing if you hadn’t pointed it out. I was too scared by your gravatar ;P
These are the thing which make me appreciate this comic. The story has reached a point where earlier scenes really start blossoming with new meaning. It also says a great deal about how different Sarah’s experiences have been, and potentially the amount of risk to her career path she was willing to take on to do right by Joyce.
I think Sal spoke from experience, but she also seemed to lack some insight back then. Because, ok, the system never worked in her favor, but she’s a black woman.
Joyce is a white girl from a well-off (I’m going to assume the Browns are well off since they could afford to raise four children AND send them all to college) Christian family. Joyce is less likely to be dismissed by the cops than Sal.
(That both are discriminated because they’re women is a valid counter-argument, though)
That’s the entire fast food sector honestly. Inevitably when you work in that sector of the food service industry you grow to hate the companies due to their operational MO and to distrust any food made by near anyone below the age of 20 because they typically don’t care beyond their next paycheck so form all sorts of disgusting habits they shouldn’t have when handling food.
Felt like shit, sweety, but I am not going to have anyone, even a rape survivor, get me and a bunch of my neighbors killed because she wants open murder on one particular crime. That works out motherfucking badly. Hell, if she’s a TWoC, she is literally on the chopping block for this exact same thing.
From the top:
Okay. I mean, are you going to disagree that some rape survivors get better?
Yes. Yes, I would say that reminding people that death is the worst thing we can do is probably a good thing.
Being called a ‘mansplainer’ by some random guy:
This is next level shit. I really hope you just fuck off, especially given that I’m the one dealing with the consequences of my words on a societal level.
My friends, this is an incredibly sensitive topic, and the comments are getting heated/personal. Can we take a break, please? It’s an important topic, but it’s ridiculously difficult to talk about it online without misunderstanding and hurting each other.
The real problem with all the “rapists should be killed” talk is that if there’s anything that works even worse than the justice system for rape it’s mob justice. If the courts are biased towards letting rich white men off, how much more will that apply to personal, extra-judicial vengeance? Weren’t accusations of rape of white women one of the most common excuses for lynching of black men?
I know in this case, this being fiction, we know Ryan’s guilty, so it’s easy to join the mob, but weren’t we all just complaining about the mob calling for Sal’s blood? I know, I know, that’s completely different.
This whole comments section is really squicking me out today with all the calls for real-life violence. I think I’m going to have to peace out for awhile.
It might be helpful to consider that a large part of the crowd who want to see Ryan get curbstomped are talking about a cartoon character. Ryan doesn’t feel things, he’s not a person, and given the prevalence of rapists who are able to escape justice he ends up being a convenient target for a lot of aggression towards actual criminals like Brock Turner.
OTOH, there’s a lot that seems to go past the usual “kill Mary”, into “We should really do this to real people in the real world.”
OTGH, I can’t really argue with the failure of the justice system to deal with rape. So hell yeah, triggers all around.
Agreed. I know it’s different being as it is fictional characters, but. yeah. I may not trust the justice system (and be involved in paralegal studies in part because yeah, “if the system doesn’t work WE NEED TO CHANGE THE DAMN SYSTEM” is in fact a thing,) but I trust mob justice even less because if the criminal justice system is prone to racial biases and unpleasantness DEAR LORD WHAT DO YOU THINK MOB RULE IS LIKE, let me tell you it is BAD.
Part of me is surprised that comments are still allowed, though while it uncomfortable, it’s does seem more discussion and not anger and kill and “Ryan’s just trying to study”. Depending on how the next comic goes, Willis might just shp the comment section off to Cuba.
Mary spends 90% of her appearance as a peridot-tier comic relief villain, so it’s harder to take her seriously and thus her doing more serious bad things has a bit less emotional punch because we know she’ll get a just comeuppance. I like Mary in the same way I like a lot of villains. She’s *entertaining* in her petty evil. Ryan’s not fun, ever, even in a butt of the joke way, and he’s not cartoonish enough to abstract away.
Also nothing Mary’s done is enough in the same cosmic tier as being a rapist.
Amazi-Girl, you’re in the right place for all the wrong reasons but at least you managed to keep your personal issues at bay when something more important came along.
I don’t know what either of them can do at this point, but I hope it ends badly for assault guy (from the tags I assume that his name is Ryan), but bad in a fair way not in a random violence towards him. I mean, yeah, he kind of deserves- no, no, no. As cathartic as it would be it wouldn’t be right but what he did wasn’t right and oh my god I’ll stop now.
I do like how Amazi-Girl simply states what she feels she has to do and trumps Sal’s cynicism. Maybe this is not the case, but sometimes cynicism is just a way for people to justify not doing anything.
Somehow this makes me think that Sal has this “No” attitude towards everything. No to stupid vigilanteesm, but also No to reporting the guy to cops. And Amazi-Girl is “Kay, sit on your ass and do sulk that the world is unfair while I try to make the world a slightly better place.”
Agreed; Sal has become so disenchanted and disaffected that she just wants to sit in a corner and sulk. However (and this is the point) she doesn’t like doing this and prefers to take action. You just need to find the right way to conquer her ingrained cynicism and defeatist belief that making the world better is impossible.
The sense I get is more that she prefers to stay out of it because everything sucks, but when she’s actively confronted with something she can help, she can’t justify not helping to herself.
“Somehow this makes me think that Sal has this “No” attitude towards everything. No to stupid vigilanteesm, but also No to reporting the guy to cops.”
To be fair, that’s Sal saying no to two things, not everything. She very much supported the vigilante justice that Ryan got on the scene of the crime when he got his head bashed in by a bat and stomped on. However, she didn’t know that Joyce was going to be so heavily effected by the aftermath.
Well yeah wording could have been better but Sal just has this “Everything sucks, why bother” attitude here. She is just so jaded and disappointed while Amazi-Girl is actually trying to make the world a slightly better place even if her methods are Highly questionable.
Sure he didn’t get to Joyce (not for a lack of trying mind you) but we have no idea how many other girls he’s done this to, and if he was or wasn’t succesful.
I’m afraid it’s a large number, because Ryan employed a series of tactics and plans to get alone with Joyce, starting with singling her out, which gave me the impression he had already done this many times before.
Congratulations, now no jury in the world oculd ever, POSSIBLY believe he did it.
You had a shot with Joyce. Especially Joyce as she was. It wasn’t a GOOD shot, but at least it was within the bounds of possibility, especially if a blood test turned up the drugs (Which it might, if one was actually /done/). But it wasn’t a good shot, and she’d go through hell first. She did not want to go through hell.
But you do that shit? Nobody on planet earth is going to believe this happened.
happened too long ago blood tests arent very reliable and 7% of all reported rapists are actually sent to jail almost all get out early im sorry if this is a shock to you but people really fucking hate rape victims
It’s also lower than 7% by a wide margin, I have no idea what fairy song you sing yourself to think it’s that fucking high. It’s like, 2.5% of the ones that actually get reported. But Joyce is a white girl from the majority religion, with extra pure coding because of the manner of her religiosity and her behavior. IF a blood test was done quickly enough to catch the drugs, she had a real shot. ‘7%’ of all rapes is not the whole story, because more vulnerable people are targetted first, and those vulnerable people are taken even less seriously. Joyce is the majority in nearly every way /except/ she’s not male. Her shot wasn’t great, but it was real (and probably better than even your 7%)
Yes, I know the fucking problems. Probably better than you – I am an old fucking hag who has dealt with this shit for a long fucking time.
There isn’t a thing you can do about the situation. Therefore, you try to make the situation not happen. You try reform the system so you’re not dealing with this situationg oing forward. It’s not a ‘trap’ to realize the system is fucked when there isn’t something you can do about it. Real life is not as satisfying as comics. There isn’t a single discrete thing you can DO about this situation, so you look past it.
Actually, I’d say she had a pretty good shot, had they reported immediately and gotten blood samples analyzed at once. Not only is Joyce a sympathetic victim – white, Christian, no sexual history to attack, not drinking, but she was actually drugged. There were witnesses.
There’s no “he said, she said”. Very few of the usual weasely excuses could even be twisted to apply.
This was pretty much the perfect storm of evidence. The best attempted rape case you could bring.
Once they’d waited till morning, with the drugs out of her system (assuming the drugs wouldn’t still have been detectable, which I wouldn’t bet on), the case got a lot harder.
My point is that there are other courses of action open to Amazi-girl, other than either beating the crap out of Ryan or using Joyce to try and pin a crime on him.
Other options could include …
stalking him until he does it again
putting up wanted posters
In ancient times, public shaming was common (the stocks and the like). Maybe grab Ryan, keep him on ice until tomorrow and leave him in a public place with a big sign around his neck reading ‘rapist’ or something.
It’s a lousy situation without any good answers. Especially if Joyce still isn’t willing to make a complaint.
About the only things a vigilante can do in this situation is administer vigilante justice – based purely on Amazi-Girl’s personal judgement and understanding of the situation or stalk him and hope to catch him in the act of trying it again and then catching him in the act with evidence that would actually work with the police. The latter is the better approach, but it’s chances of working in the real world would be pretty slim. Even then the stalking has some serious issues.
It’s also pretty much what she thinks she’s been doing to Sal – stalking her, waiting for her to do something that justifies delivering a beating.
I do think the parallels are there and just show why the whole vigilante approach is so problematic. We’ve all just been ranting about how crazy and dangerous and wrong AG is for what she’s been doing to Sal and now we all think it’s great for her to go deliver a beat-down to Ryan. I get it. We know Sal’s not a monster and we know Ryan is guilty, but we shouldn’t be trusting Amazi-Girl to make those decisions, any more than the racist crowd here should be.
The least worse option that holds with the narrative is that she tracks Ryan, catches him in the act and, hopefully, takes him to the police along with the victim and evidence.
As you say, her judgment at this point is, questionable. Amber should be in psych-eval. She should not be walking around in public, period. She’s a loose cannon, currently pointing in the “right” direction.
If Ryan were caught, then Joyce could come in and say her piece to the police. It might or might not be used in court, but it may give her closure.
Neither is Sal a monster. She’s doing what her experience has taught her and I would do exactly the same thing. It’s pretty safe to say that we’ve all made morally questionable judgements at same stage in our lives, the older you get the more likely it will happen.
I honestly don’t think having Amazi-girl beat Ryan up for Joyce is going to help her overcome her fear of being out and alone in public. Joyce feels the way that she does about it because thoughts of another Ryan attacking her again loom over her consciousness, and hiding behind her friends as they fight her battles for her, well… I don’t imagine it’ll do much to help her grow from that terrible experience.
Even if some pieces-of-shit like Ryan get away with what they did, I still think Sal was wrong to convince Joyce not to report it. At least Amazi-Girl is trying to do something about Ryan, rather than doing nothing because the system is broken.
It’s a lot more complicated than that. When you out yourself as a victim of sexual assault and point the finger at someone else, 9/10 the Public Condemnation hammer slams down on YOU.
People (especially in small towns) like to think of their communities as safe little bubbles from the dangerous outside world. They don’t like it when someone reminds them that it isn’t true, especially when you implicate one of their own as the source. It’s like all the shit people put Becky through when they went back to Bloomington x 10.
There’s also “Not my Nigel” to consider. People get really defensive about rape, because they believe rape is something “bad people” do. And it’s not that rapists aren’t bad people, but that people tend to view “bad people” as being “bad” 24/7 without redeeming value.
So if they were friends with a rapist and saw good things in that interaction to remain friends, then clearly they couldn’t be a “bad person” and so the accusation must be false. And if it’s false, then there must be a reason that (insert slur for women) accused their friend that shows negatively on her character.
So it becomes this whole thing where they stick up for the “reputation” of “poor Nigel” and this ends up justifying escalating forms of harassment against the accuser who must have some horrible reason for insisting on these “horrendous accusations” against their “dear sweet innocent Nigel”.
It makes the calculus of whether or not to report really ugly. I mean, at the least, since rapists tend to be people you know, it can mean the dissolution of support networks, friends turning against you, harassment, public shaming as a woman who has sex (or public shaming as an nb or man who got raped, as society frequently sees rape as something strong people do to the “weak”), and general badness.
Superhero dialog has an odd effect on crowds. For instance Bruce Wayne is all “You’re not Ra’s al Ghul, I watched him die” and the lady who introduced them immediately loses interest, nobody else at the party notices anything.
I’ve overlooked that aspect, I’ll admit. Also that my disrespect might have – scratch that, it was unwarranted. Apologies for that.
And while I’m not feeling comfortable assessing the relative mental trauma of sexual assault and attempted armed robbery, I concede there is a difference in their public perceptions and how they are prosecuted.
Not gonna lie – from time to time, something will remind me of that, and the fact that I could have been either permanently disabled or killed will sink further in, and I’ll wish for that fuckstain to have had his arm cut off Requiem for a Dream style. And I’ll feel ashamed for thinking it.
Which one is worse isn’t really the important part. Even when you’ve been through the same thing, your experience can be vastly different. I ended up creating a crapstorm for myself because of that just a few days ago.
What’s important is that we remember that the other person’s experiences are just as valid as our own, as are the pain or fear or anger or whatever other else those experiences created for that person. Disagreeing with someone or objecting to something they’ve said is fine, but treating them like they were unjustified to have even felt whatever lead them to say it in the first place is usually a shitty thing to do.
Like how that guy’s shirt breaks down ‘Desanto’ into DE SAN TO.
Because the republican party base is often lost past the second syllable in words, especially last names. If it were all together, they’d probably become terrified they were voting for some “URLEGAL IMMGRANT”.
Trouble is; Sal has a good point, and so does AG. It isn’t either-or.
I like the face tattoo idea; it would put him out of circulation pretty effectively. It’s hard to schmooze a potential victim with the word “Rape” on your forehead. (Taking Girl With Dragon Tatto’s idea up one level)
Maybe Sal will follow AG, and stop her before she kills Ryan.
Heartfelt sympathy for everyone in this thread for whom this is triggering/personal.
alt-text: Sorry, Willis, this strip only had half-cocked in it. You need to use it as a title a second time before you can cross it off the list. Right now it’s only half-…crossed… which is a single line through it….
I didn’t realize this before, but AG does have a point. Most cases of date rape get off because there’s either not enough physical evidence or something that the defense can use to argue “mixed signals”/”she’s lying”/”he’s too good for jail”. But none of those things applies in Joyce’s case.
She was roofied out of a cup of soda in a room full of witnesses, at least one of which was dead sober (Sarah) and saw him threatening her. Not to mention that she sliced his face open when she realized what was going on, something the best defense lawyer in the country couldn’t spin as consent. And she comes from a deeply Christian family, so no trying to assassinate her character as a slut.
If Joyce had called the cops that night, the only way Ryan was getting off is if his dad was the freaking governor or some kind of oil baron.
youd be surprised how a lawyer can turn words against you and make you seem like the villain.
But NOT reporting it accomplishes nothing the system may be fucked but it’s the only real system we have so not using it sort of makes the chances of the guy getting caught from slim to none.
Now? Sure.
But yo said, “If Joyce had called the cops that night”, which would pretty much kill the “why didn’t she report it right away” line of attack. Even the next morning – “Because I was drugged into incoherence” isn’t a bad defense either. Though by next morning she might have lost the evidence of the drugging.
Content Warning: Defense Lawyer apologia for rape:
“Ah, but see, was it not the case that Joyce had been speaking pleasantly to my client the whole night? And most would agree he had been a perfect gentleman, only looking out for the health and welfare of a fellow Christian. Really, I find it most distressing that Joyce would make these scurrilous accusations to distract from her unprovoked assault on my client, not to mention the assault from her “urban” friend.”
“And let us not forget that there is no evidence that my client spiked the drink. He had no way to know that drink was spiked and tried to heroically brace Joyce’s fall as he realized the duplicity of his fellow party-goers.”
“Also, what was Joyce doing there, wearing such a short skirt. It is noted that she was flirting and dating just the following week with another boy. I’m not saying she is a slattern, just noting that she has had a habit of going with boys and violently attacking them when she doesn’t get her way. Even her mother agrees she has done moral wrong in this instance and is likely lying to cover her shame over her sexually aggressive ways”.
And now I need a shower to get that off me. Ugh, hate how easily I can channel that twisted mindset.
appreciate the sentiment attached to that (recognizing how terrible cishet white dudes are given more leniency to be) but you really don’t need to. white guilt, or cis guilt, any guilt really, is generally not productive unless you’re one of those people who doesn’t use guilt to bludgeon themselves into a sobbing mess (I’ve heard these people exist, but still don’t quite believe in them).
We aren’t getting a police report or trial out of this. Never could have, even right after the crime. That would consumed the comic for years, just as a death would. Not saying that’s what should or does happen IRL, but the narrative couldn’t support it.
DYW has some resolution planned and most of it will happen tonight. Ryan will get publicly outed in some way, which may or may not put a permanent end to his crimes. Joyce’s identity will not be revealed, since that would be a one way trip back home. AG wins in that she gets better control over Amber’s violence and anger. Sal becomes a little less cynical and world weary. Joyce gets to feel safer from Ryan, though aware that Ryan isn’t the only one of his kind. Nobody dies.
Is that rapists who actually get convicted? Cause the kind of party/acquaintance rape we’re talking about here doesn’t really correlate with any other crimes as far as I know.
I would have thought so. It came out of a study of profiling in the UK – which suffered badly under scrutiny – where the conviction database was searched.
> Cause the kind of party/acquaintance rape we’re talking about here doesn’t really correlate with any other crimes as far as I know.
If it’s not reported, then it doesn’t make to the database:(
I’ll admit, I was scared of jumping in last night as I knew the conversation could go in a super triggering direction. Jumping in now here and there as I feel a bit more able.
I know that both the comic and (even more) the comments have taken a dark and serious turn, but I feel compelled to note that AG’s face in the second panel is pretty much my favorite Willis face ever.
I don’t know, that one’s good, but I’m still torn between Dina after kissing Becky at the end of book 5, and Sal’s reaction to Billie talking to the maid.
There are no more micks. Hank already dropped them all.
And there are no more closets. Becky has blown them all up. All of them.
And there are no fucks left. Carla has so few to give that the total adds up to a negative amount.
And there is no shit. Like, at all – no one poops any longer. Toilets are boarded up and Walky has nothing to joke about. Because Malaya has so little shit to give that we’re all out.
Is this a mic drop? It seems more like an awkward flail to salvage a bad situation. I thought mic drops were more about laying someone flat with some amazing verbage.
Travel back in time and assassinate Optimus Prime while he’s still asleep, thus ensuring Decepticon rule of the future?
(my knowledge of Transformers is limited entirely to Beast Wars. If I wanted to get more into it I would really love some recommendations. Those IDW comics are supposed to be good right?)
Megatron is one of the best commenters here. I’m glad he might be poking at things again. I wasn’t much for um, the Payday folks, though it was nice they had fun, but dis guy.
There is no way, in any shape or form, that killing any kind of person based solely on any kind of past deed will ever be acceptable from a legal perspective? Why? Because what might be right for the individual is not necessarily right for society.
One does not condone coldblooded murder, ever, or you’ll find all manner of people justifying through stress or maliciousness that their circumstances fit the criteria. There’s no take backs from death. That is why we have courts of law. That is why we damn well let rapists walk free if the court of law fails to find him guilty despite overwhelming evidence. That is why youth ought to damn well get out there and vote for a better system if this means as much to them as they say it does, rather than lounge around their PCs and living rooms justifying why we should act like mafias.
Porto, that kind of condescending attitude has absolutely no place in this kind of conversation. Take that shit back to the dumpster fire you found it in
I know there’s a word that means “I agree with you but the way in which you’ve said it makes me dislike you anyway,” I just can’t think of it. If it were that fucking easy to fix rape culture, we fucking would.
Whoever said it was easy? Fixing racism isn’t easy. Fixing misogyny isn’t easy. Fixing any of the world’s cultural problems isn’t easy. The problems don’t go away quickly. To an extent, their roots are part of the human condition, vices born of weaknesses we will never escape as the human race is now. Rape is one of the worst crimes possible. It’s not a magic button to justify vigilante killings. There are more constructive ways, more lasting ways to make change happen, and they don’t involve throwing away the very idea of society.
I see good in AG trying to catch evidences or witnesses against that rapist (or “sexual offender”), rather than to bringing “justice knuckles” to action.
There is a good reason for the Law to exist. It is to perish the thought of lynching someone, be it for a good reason or not. Seriously, don´t ever ever trust the “herd” mindset, which is very common in mobs. And it is very, very easy to fall into its clutches. We live in society, afterall. I´ve seen already seemingly perfectly educated people giving into emotional response (it is easy to yell “Burn that rapist!” in the middle of a mob).
Somehow, humankind as a whole has tried, more or less, to create laws. Rape, generally, is considered a heavy offense unto someone, but the corresponding need of proof or the attribution of the crime can vary. Sadly, outside of some First World countries, that notion (about rape, see “tarrahush” in Islamic States, for example.) is still “primitive”, conditioned by another ideas, customs or values.
Sal doesn´t trust the legal system, but, she should try to weed out that even inside of that legal system (let´s not kid ourselves, sometimes as full of holes as a swiss cheese) , there is a purpose, and even good people believing in the good fight.
Panel three and five sum up to me the problem with Sal, first off she’s deciding what Amazi-girl can and can’t do, as if she and only she knows what best in this situation and then in the fifth panel shes decided that, because of her experience, the system is broken and nothing will happen to Ryan therefore don’t even bother
Its fine to have to opinions and to express them but she never considers her opinions might actually be wrong or even harmful, shes far too rigid and doesn’t think far enough ahead of the implications of her opinions or advice so hopefully what Amazi-girl says in the sixth panel might actually get through her stubborn noggin
Sal “deciding what Amazi-Girl can and can’t do” extends to her breaking the law, nearly getting herself killed and trying frequently to harm Sal. And Sal is right. The system is broken and the most you can do is choke a bongo after they avoid any actual consequence for their actions.
The only person who’s getting any blame here is Amazi-Girl, and she’s doing it to herself and admitting that the reason Ryan got away was because she made a scene. Which is correct, and pointedly, Sal is not jumping on that because she clearly sees that AG wants to do good for someone who’s been wronged by a person who will never face consequences for their actions.
It’s not that Sal is a jaded cop with 20 years on the force who’s seen too many dirtbags walk free because she insists on doing things by the book and her idealism is revitalized by that Amazi-Girl being a loose cannon who doesn’t play by the rules. It’s a complex situation running the gamut from societal biases, personal justice, rape culture, and our inability to punish criminals for certain crimes, and there flatly is no right answer.
But who is Sal to decide what Amazi-Girl can and can’t do in this situation, Sal knows the system is broken, Sal knows that sometimes violence is the only response yet shes still telling Amazi-Girl to not go of half-cocked yet its Sal that doesn’t have all the information
Amazi-Girls actions led to Ryan getting away yes but it was Sal that helped Joyce to decide not to go to the police, who knows maybe if Sal had said nothing then Joyce might still not have gone to the police but the hero worship Joyce has/had for Sal mean Sals words would have had a big impact on Joyces thinking
– Seen Amazi-Girl nearly die horribly trying to do good.
– Has been personally victimized by Amazi-Girl twice now.
Look, it wasn’t best advice in the universe but that’s because Joyce, Sal, Sarah and Dorothy were in a completely fucked up situation. That was my point; there is no easy answer to what Joyce should have done because Joyce shouldn’t have had to make that call in the first place.
Heres the thing though Sal wasn’t at the party, she overheard and joined in the discussion and then immediately starts telling Joyce the police aren’t going to do anything and then leaves and has virtually nothing to do with the after-effects of the decision Joyce makes
If you going to give advice then you should make sure you’re willing to deal with the crap that may (or may not) come after
Sal isn’t deciding anything for Amazi-Girl. All she’s doing is telling AG that she shouldn’t be doing this. She doesn’t grab her or stand in her way, she just tells her what she’s doing is a bad idea.
The fact that she doesn’t know 100% if she’s right doesn’t make her some kind of asshole for doing so. Both of them have valid points here and neither of them is completely right or completely wrong.
Its certainly not as if Amazi-Girl always knows what the right thing to do is either.
Sal has set herself up as the “adult” in this loose collective, the one with all the “experience” of the outside world, the one who “knows” more then anyone else (as based on her use of the term kids) so not an asshole no but if you’re going to set yourself as the font of all knowledge and be willing to share that wisdom then you should have all the information and not go off “half-cocked” as she just accused Amazi-Girl of doing
I really don’t understand where you’re getting all these rules from that apparently need to be satisfied before it is acceptable for Sal to express her opinions.
I’m probably projecting a bit here but Sal reminds me a lot (uncomfortably so) of my brother in that their attitude is “I’m right you’re wrong and that’s that” actually a bit like Joyces brother as well come to think of it
Her arrogance in believing everyone else is a kid (because she’s, like, a real adult) means that she doesn’t have to worry about anyone else’s opinion because “they don’t really know”
Like most of the charcters on here she also has her good points as well but her I just find her quite arrogant
I’ve always seen her as simply stubborn, and a bit blunt. And she insisted at the end that it was what Joyce wanted that mattered, I never found that encounter to be very pushy.
That’s true except that Sal pushed her views first plus at the time Joyce hero-worshipped Sal (and Sal knew it) so whatever Sal had to say would have a big influence on Joyces choice
I guess when you have that kind of influence over someone you should be careful when using it
I sadly think that once the dust has cleared Amber will go back to “grr must hate you for justice” but there’s definitely going to be some holes punched into the entire mythology she’s built around Sal, and going forward I think we’ll start to see Amber gradually undo it until eventually realizing the whole thing is bunk.
“Your honor I know I kill people literally all the time but I have a sad backstory and my kids don’t call me anymore, so I think my personal redemption arc is sufficient.”
And then Grant Morrison had him snort drugs and herd people into ovens.
Some years back this was being done at some universities somewhere in the US. Pictures and names of alleged rapists were being posted and the furor you’d expect erupted. Don’t know how it all turned out, sorry.
Do we publicly post and warn neighborhoods about people we (and by we, I mean random self-appointed vigilantes) think are pedophiles or are you talking about things like the sex offenders list – which covers far, far more than pedophiles?
I’m talking about the sex offenders list, that watchdog website, and the policy that convicted sex offenders inform neighborhoods when they move in. The vigilante thing, it depends because SOMETIMES people are right with their suspicions and SOMETIMES assumptions are made and they’re wrong. It’d be better to go with the convicted list, I’m afraid. It sucks because so many people go unreported.
I have now been reminded that people who have lived through hell can still be dismissive of other people who have lived through hell. But it’s not my place, nor my desire, to reprimand them for it.
Unrelated to all the angst, controversy, and depressing topics that have otherwise dominated my comments on this strip…
Reading Joyce and Walky, got to the bit where Ruth’s past is uploaded, threw up in my mouth a little at the line “Ryan was a gift from heaven.”
Also, I’m seeing a lot of talk in the comments about rape, and whether Joyce should have reported it or not. I have personal experience, let’s put it that way, and I say that letting this sort of things go unreported is a bad idea. Don’t get me wrong, the system is absolutely screwed. But even though Brock only got three months, does that mean he should never have been reported? And yes, Joyce would have been dragged through the mud even though the only thing she did wrong was trust someone. Like I said, the system is so screwed. But Ryan is still free to do whatever he wants, and Amazi-girl…we’ll have to see what her idea is and how she handles him.
By that same token, though, I don’t blame for a single second any survivor who doesn’t want to get dragged through the mud and retraumatized like that for such a small chance at justice.
Very good point, and it really is sad that that’s the catch. That we have to choose between a small chance at justice or a very shaky and unsteady peace. Sometimes even a lack of closure.
I should clarify that to condemn a survivor for not reporting would be hypocritical, and if that’s how I came off I do apologize. There are so many gray areas in this subject and it’s maddening and sad. We should try to protect each other and keep more people from being hurt but there are other circumstances. I’m sorry if I was accusatory at all, this was just an ill timed strip for me since I learned some unpleasant news about a friend that is uh…kinda up this aisle. And surprise surprise, it had not been reported… so yeah. Lots of inner thoughts.
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“Here’s mah Change.org petition to blast rapists and BLM-murderers what got off with a slap onna wrist inta tha fuckin’ sun”
Sal, trusting online petition, hahaha. no.
“It’s ironic or some shit”
⸮
¿
I’m just hoping the notion of personal responsibility gets through to Sal.
Don’t care about odds, SIGNING!
You know, I was half-expecting a link there.
Oh, jeez, maybe some character development after all!
Not only that, but AG’s cape is covering her butt entirely.
Is there no end to your pain?!?
Oh, and practically all other people have crotch shots instead of butt shots. And the one person we see from behind gets their butt covered by AG’s speech bubble.
I think she should draw a lot of dicks on stuff.
The return of the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit.
as an RA for 4 years I can say dry erase markers work to remove permanent marker from white boards
Not this again. Before the argument starts up, can we agree to compromise and say that maybe it works sometimes, on some types of permanent marker (and are you sure it wasn’t wet erase marker rather than permanent?), on some types of whiteboards, not necessarily well.
I HAVE NO OPINION OF HOW MARKERS MAY OR MAY NOT BE REMOVED FROM VARIOUS SURFACES!!!!!
*Slowly backs towards emergency exit without stopping smiling, without blinking.*
It works on all that I’ve tried with the exception of the whiteboards that had their protective overlay stripped off (usually by too much Windex or cleaners that aren’t whiteboard cleaners)
If all else fails you can always use a sandblaster.
Like Batman branding criminals in BVS, Amazi-Girl draws dicks on them. With permanent marker.
I assure you that Batman was never in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
I can’t tell if that’s a joke or not. . .
That should be the forum’s official slogan.
“I can’t tell if that’s a joke or not” is a pretty good slogan for most of the internet in general.
Didn’t they play at the Bronze that time?
*quietly adds Anthony Head to the list of actors I want to see play Alfred*
How could you tell? He’s BATMAN! You’re not gonna see him until he WANTS you to see him (and shit your pants in fear).
Just like Angelus! Who has an alternate persona as Angel(and technically Liam, but…) who is later a dark, brooding vigilante in a corrupt city. Plus he gets an endless supply of goofy sidekicks that go dark by the time they’re ready to fight evil alone, and a sweet black car. Works at nights…
Becomes rich and the head of a company..
I think you’re on to something, here.
Backed by seemingly infinite amounts of money and tech – yep, looking more like the Caped Crusader every minute!
Can go from “badass monster” to “harmless buffoon” and back in seconds.
He’s not Batman. He’s the Dark Avenger.
Plus: low rats!
She carries a ring with a dingdong branded on it. And leaves her mark like The Phantom.
You know, the comic strip character? Had a movie with Billy Zane? Defenders of the Earth?
Anyone? No?
Defenders of the Earth! (Defenders…)
Fun fact, Stan Lee wrote that theme song.
The Phantom is BIG in Sweden. And New Zeeland, apparently.
And Australia, or used to be.
Huh, the more you know!
“The Phantom has a thousand ears and a thousand eyes.” Old jungle saying.
Because of the huge Swedish market there are quite a few adventures written by Swedes and taking place here. Not bad for an African super hero.
My favorit is when he meets Carl con Linnaeus.
I read that as Carne con Linnaeus.
It SHOULD have been VON Linnaeus, but I like your version too!
and india!
Tattoo a dick on his forehead?
That was Luthor, wasn’t it?
Burn.
Yep and it is about time.
That is one huge guilt complex, or ego?
Ego and guilt complexes go hand in hand. It takes a certain amount of ego to believe everything is your fault, that you are that important and influential.
For some folks, assumed guilt is a way of maintaining the illusion you’re actually in any semblance of control over your circumstances.
It can also be the result of years and years of being told everything is your fault. No ego, just a lot of guilt and shame over things that had nothing to do with you.
Yep. In that case it’s not about ego, it’s about lack of ego combined with misplaced trust in others.
I dunno… could there be such thing as “negative ego”? Kind of like how there’s negative numbers?
I mean, negative numbers denote that space/amount is being depleted/taken, but it’s still an amount. 1 would correlate to a positive unit of 1, whereas -1 would correlate to a negative unit of 1. That sort of thing.
If the perfect ‘normal’ ego is 0, then a positive ego would imply a person feels like they have control over their life and influence over situations. Too high of a positive and the person can be classified as narcissistic, spoiled, and just in general feeling like they not only do have control over everything, but it is divinely ordained that they do or they otherwise ‘deserve’ to have that power. Negative ego would be someone feeling like they don’t have much control over anything other than that maybe their presence invokes things to happen that they are responsible for regardless of their wants or intentions.
If there isn’t such a thing as a negative ego we should make it a thing as that actually makes sense to me.
That sounds like “learned helplessness” to me
The words you’re looking for is agency and self-esteem.
It’s possible to have a huge ego, feel you lave little agency, and think badly of yourself.
While they are all things that affect our psyche, they are not one in the same.
“Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it’s source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.”
-General Iroh
Sal, you fool! Do you know what happens when Amazi-Girl goes off FULLY COCKED!?
*Engage Slipshine*
‘s what I keep saying. Sal and Amber Pound Each Other in the Most Sapphic of Hatefucks. Let’s go let’s go.
Amazi-Girl and Sal: Infinite Hatefuck
The musical.
the butts musical
So it’d basically be like the first Kickass film, but with all the killing replaced with similarly violent and over-the-top sex scenes?
..actually, I think that’d probably do quite well for itself. It’d basically an ironic, absurdist version of what many people watch the GoT TV show for. 😛
We don’t talk about kickass 2..Maximum avatar/name/text harmony achieved.
Bring on the hateful Sapphic butts, and point them out immediately.
Something something TARDIS joke! Blah, blah, blah. I’d like to order one running gag with staying power and subtlety.
Comments threads don’t really do that well with running jokes, in general.
…
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE.
Ask Danny.
No but we all know she has the condoms for it.
Oo a fellow ghostp fan (train moblin)
oooh i get it, they didn t have to fight cause this wasn’t a crossover.
Also because Spider-Man isn’t involved.
As I recall, Spider-Man ended up throwing down with just about everyone he encountered. :’P
A lot of that is JJ Jameson’s fault. On first meeting him a lot of other heroes assumed he was a bad guy cause they read one to many Daily Bugle headlines
“According to protocol, this is the part where we fight. But that seems inane, predictable, and a waste of resources. So let’s not, and say we did.”
– Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2099 Meets Spider-Man
Hooo, my body is so ready for this
They should team up with some baseball bats and go Office Space on him! ^_^
Nah, if they go Office Space on him, they’ll criticize his lack of “flair” on his DeSanto shirt, then steal his stapler while insisting he add a cover sheet to the weekly poll results report!
Perhaps Mendo is referring to the ‘burning down the building’ part.
“Going Office Space” is now the new “Going nuclear”. 😛
Pretty sure mendo is talking about the scene where they beat a printer into little tiny pieces with baseball bats
I was thinking more “Blood for the Blood God!”
Ooooohhhhhhhh, shit.
Sort of called Sal’s reaction, though that was sort of obvious….. and like damn that throwback to the exact person who convinced Joyce of that.
Bingo. And some seem to forget that Sal is one of those that seems not to go to jail for violent felonies. Even if by ‘jail’ I mean juvenile detention for two counts of armed robbery and whatever holding a knife to Ethan and threatening him is called. Her punishment was being sent to an all-girls boarding school, wasn’t it?
Getting stabbed in the hand was likely considered an extenuating circumstance.
That’s assault, she went to juvie, then she went to boarding school.
Also, don’t say this shit when Amber’s right fucking there. Sal committed Assault (which in layman’s terms, is threatening someone with bodily harm, in this case with a deadly weapon.). Amber committed motherfucking battery (As in, *ACTUALLY CAUSING* bodily harm, in this case with a deadly weapon.)
Sal went to jail for minors, then her parents sent her to boarding school. The first half of that is what’s ‘supposed’ to happen (I doubt Juvie is actually useful, but that’s not the point here.) Amber, who did worse, had nothing done.
I suspect that there is a huge mental health mitigation that you’re ignoring here. I also think that you’ll find that Amber is being punished until this day, if you call ‘unable to be happy or accept being happy’ punishment.
I’m not ignoring shit. In the eyes of the law, Amber’s mental state had not degraded that badly yet; she hadn’t yet had her actual break with reality. She was still capable of determining right and wrong – she lost control of her impulses because of her father’s goading (And longtime abuse), but being goaded into something has basically never done more than very minimal mitigation (and if you think being abused can remotely qualify as a defense, I invite you to look at the legal reality of battered woman’s syndrome and laugh at yourself for your naivete). Not being legally culpable for your actions is *REALLY FUCKING HARD*. I don’t think either of them should have gone to juvenile hall, because that’s not actually useful, but the state could stand to fucking recognize that Sal had been victimized in turn.
And of course, even if Amber’s faculties had problems then, good luck actually claiming that defense successfully in court, or getting a prosecutor to care about it in advance. There’s a reason the insanity plea fails something like 98% of the time, and that reason has something to do with the fact that the country doesn’t take it seriously. Hint: Amber didn’t see consequences for her actions for another reason, one that rhymes with ‘slight’.
tl;dr don’t tell someone who knows exactly how little the insanity plea does for anyone ever (btw if Amber doesn’t have a long documented history of problems it’d never work) that they’re ‘forgetting a mental health mitigation’.
A: it never works
B: It has insanely strict rules on it, because the public is terrified of it ever working for anyone who isn’t ‘really’ mentally ill, which is basically everyone according to the general public
C: when it does work, it’s not actually a mitigation, you just go to a different jail (generally for longer, and with different words)
Honestly, I don’t think there is any decent lawyer (outside of movies), who suggests their client pleas for insanity. As you explained, not only it is a shitty defence, it is NOT the “get out of jail for free” card TV and movies make it out to be.
Yeah, Amber was legally considered capable at the time (hell even now I’m pretty sure she’d STILL be considered legally competent to stand trial because again, insanity defense is insanely limited,) and really she at least should’ve gotten court-ordered counseling or something for that but Blaine continues to have been The Fucking Worst.
(I wouldn’t be surprised if we do hear the “holding someone at knifepoint” part was negotiated out in exchange for Amber not being charged, but the point remains she REALLY needed that therapy then and she needs that therapy now. Sal meanwhile needs someone competent and willing to actually listen rather than talk about what THEY think her issues are.)
Yeah, I didn’t really want to focus on it there, but according to the legal conception of how mental health interacts with your fault in a situation, AG probably doesn’t qualify at all for any but the most light of mitigation (and it would in fact be mitigation – that is, you still get sentenced, it’s just smaller). Like, I want to be clear and say ‘and that’s fucking terrible’, and it is. The law really doesn’t understand how the mind works, probably because we’d have to completely upend our understanding of the law. Precedential law as a whole is not that well equipped for having a foundational principle like that overturned, and nor are, well, people. I sure as fuck have no idea how to rewrite, well, everything. I’m pretty sure we don’t have to rewrite everything to make things better for non-NT folks, mind, but making things great really might require it. And hahahaihavenocluewhattodothere.
But because I know all that, I can be reasonably confident it didn’t play into a fictional prosecutor’s mind (though prosecutors /are/ also people and can at least occasionally feel pity). It’s legitimately not why Amber got off (Though in fairness, afaict we prefer to have the cops kill non-NT people rather than have the prison system do it. I might be underestimating prosecutors’ collective humanity)
Sal’s was more than assault. It was assault and armed robbery, possibly with some other lesser charges and/or variations on assault thrown in. And I’m definitely not saying what Amber did was okay, but the courts would have likely taken into consideration that she was young, traumatized and emotionally distraught when she stabbed Sal.
Also, sadly, in some courts, 14 is old enough to be tried as an adult in a violent crime if the circumstances fit.
All of which is true for sal. But Sal’s the one with a record.
Like, yeah, I know, ‘the courts will bend over backwards to not blame a white person for attacking a black one’. You don’t have to tell me again. I know this.
You persist in making this a racial issue when it isn’t. However, I do understand now that this is personal for you.
bennnnnnnnnn
whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Do we actually know Sal went to Juvie? It’s a reasonable assumption, but I don’t remember it ever being made explicit.
She didn’t. She was sent to the boarding school by her parents.
I’m not sure if that’s something that can be a legal punishment. I think she had court mandated therapy, though.
Juvenile justice systems tend to be geared towards rehabilitation and there are ‘placements’ which are residential schools geared towards children found to be delinquent. They’re not, by and large, a place you want to find yourself, and though they’re not what you’d think of… it wouldn’t be inaccurate to refer to them as boarding schools.
I see. My impression was that it was her parents who decided to send her to Tennessee, since I found “five years in a boarding school in another state” to be an odd punishment for a legal system to dole out, but not for concerned parents who want to put their problem child out of their minds.
What I figured was that Sal avoided being charged for taking Ethan hostage in exchange for Amber avoiding being charged with stabbing Sal, and that she only ended up getting a rap for the one robbery and the second attempted robbery since whenever her past is brought up it’s always “you robbed convenience stores” and not “you threatened to stab someone.”
It could have been part of a deal – therapy & a strict boarding school to avoid actual juvie, along with dropping both Amber’s stabbing and Sal’s hostage taking.
Yeah, but the goal isn’t really punishment so much as bringing kids back into line so that they can go on to be productive members of society.
As far as it being the Walkerton’s idea to go to boarding school… That’s been my impression as well – having an intact, middle class family that is supportive of you sorting your shit out, getting you into therapy and make sure you go, etc. is a huge asset for kids in Sal’s position and instrumental to keeping her out of a juvenile detention facility.
There are a lot of possibilities for what actually happened with Sal. I don’t get the sense that she was Ordered to the boarding school. But it’s feasible. I think it’s more likely that Sal had some Court Ordered counseling, her parents decided to send her to boarding school and maybe she was put on probation for some or all of the period until she graduated?
Also, Spencer, didn’t you used to have the smiling skeleton (undertale) gravatar? This new one is terrifying.
Yeah, I think it’s more likely that the Walkertons sent her. I feel it’s exactly the kind of thing the Walkertons would do, where they send her away and out of mind “for her own good.”
Also, Spencer, didn’t you used to have the smiling skeleton (undertale) gravatar? This new one is terrifying.
say that to my faces not online
(I’ve been on a JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure kick lately
Sal did say she was allowed to pick so maybe.
IDK, I’m pretty much just trying to fill in holes since we still don’t know much about what happened. Like I know there’s a whole narrative of “Traumatized white girl lashes out at Evil Black Criminal” but it’s weird to me that Amber could totally swipe a knife and stab a detained suspect and get nothing for it, if only because she made the officers on scene look like incompetent buffoons.
If it comes out that Amber just totally avoided consequences for stabbing Sal, then I can’t really say that’s unrealistic.
So Sal got off lightly because of her family money? Oh, the irony.
More likely it was deal as she may have been a first time offender. Marcie would not have gotten away such a deal as her family could not have afforded boarding school.
Being stabbed in the hand wouldn’t be taken into account for Sal’s sentencing, but it would have earned Amber a slap on the wrist or even a custodial sentence in the UK.
She got off lightly because only the worst courts in this country could have managed to get a 14-year-old tried as an adult.
It’s definitely happened.
Oh I’m absolutely sure it has, but I’ve already done enough depressing-as-hell googling for one night, and I’d rather hold off on seeing how many results THAT search comes up with.
As Lailah said, she went to Juvie which isn’t getting off lightly.
About which I’d forgotten.
If she had just gone to boarding school, then *that* would have been getting off lightly.
Going to a catholic boarding school is not getting off lightly in the States. You realize that child abuse (phrased as ‘corporal punishment’) is permitted there, right? And actively, possibly enthusiastically, enacted. She did not just go to some posh random boarding school. She went to a fucking punishment school, the kind that actually takes in kids who’ve done criminal shit without being thrown wads of money.
Technically guessing on its legality in tennessee, but. Seriously, folks, the rich only get to ignore the consequences of their actions if their parents support them entirely. Sal’s clearly and obviously do not.
Fair point. That’s cultural blindness on my part.
Corporal punishment has been banned in all schools in the UK.
It’s still a legitimate form of punishment in some parts of Tennessee:
http://www.corpun.com/usscr2b.htm
Good point:
“the rich only get to ignore the consequences of their actions if their parents support them entirely. Sal’s clearly and obviously do not.”
s/legitimate/legal
Umm, as far as I know, corporal punishment of children isn’t actually allowed here in the states.
@figureaddict: Nope. It’s legal. And the US is the only country in the world not to have signed the convention on the rights of the child, in case you were wondering (http://lysikan.tumblr.com/post/148866941810/clatterbane-annekewrites-medusasstory-mezereum). The US, simply put, doesn’t give a damn about protecting children that grow up in it.
The country as a whole has not banned it. Doesn’t mean it’s legal in all 50 states. Thankfully, many states took their heads out of that particular perpetually sunless place some time ago.
I am not recalling where, in comic, that it was established that Sal a) went to juvie prior to the Catholic boarding school, or that b) it was a boarding school specially for juvenile criminals. And if you believe that juvie isn’t helpful, then I can’t imagine why being sent to a ‘punishment school’ that will guilt trip them over their sinful nature wouldn’t be equally unhelpful. Especially a boarding school for juvenile criminals with lax enough oversight that Sal could get away with sneaking out for some action on a regular basis.
What I’ve seen in comic makes me think that the Walkertons are wealthy and/or connected enough to have gotten her into this boarding school, possibly as way to reduce other consequences that would have certainly befallen someone of her skin tone without those resources.
How many kids that come out of a juvenile offender boarding school arrive at a university riding a nice sporty motorcycle? (Some universities don’t allow freshmen to have cars, trucks, or motorcycles on campus). Who’s money paid for that bike and the cool outfits to go with it? How did she find the time to learn to ride it (and well enough to save AG in spectacular fashion) while at an allegedly restrictive Catholic boarding school for juvenile offenders?
Sal’s parents don’t support her “entirely”, duh. But I’m thinking their idea of punishment was to send her to that school and then assume that would ‘correct’ her behavior, rather than have an active role in that correction themselves.
W- wha!? Why would you think I think being schooled by people who will, yanno, beat you, is a good or helpful thing? I might, and I’m actually not sure of this one, think it’s less unhelpful than Juvenile Hall, but that’s almost definitely not why she was sent to that school in the first place.
And I really don’t know why you think the Walkertons are wealthy. Now, the rich are pretty immune to real scrutiny sociologically (Read: they won’t generally talk about themselves with people outside their class), but the push to make her one child (that counts) be a doctor, isn’t particularly Rich-coded (It’s usually ‘middle class looking to break into the rich’). Further, when she was trying to get her kid a part, she was apparently going for tiny bit parts, which she arranged herself (The latter is almost as important, it means she didn’t have people to do that for her, and she was dealing with random casting schmucks and not, you know, someone actually important). The Walkertons are well-off, but probably not particularly rich.
As far as a motorcycle, they’re cheaper than cars if they aren’t absurd. She probably didn’t earn it herself, no, but she’s been established as, yanno, sneaking out of that ‘allegedly’ restrictive school if she wanted to do anything. And if you think it’s just the wealthy that can get their kids a pair of vehicles, well… no. (I assume Walky has a car, because he’s American and in Indiana, but damned if I know. He could be enough of a homebody to not care, and he definitely wouldn’t have NEEDED one prior)
Like, there’s really no question they’re well-off. But particularly rich? I doubt it. It helps that neither Walkerton sibling behaves like, well, Billie, nor expects anything from their status (Yet, equally, show blindspots around poverty), which further connotes it’s a bit more average than some of the commentariat thinks. And yes, they did not take ana ctive role in her life. But you know, going out of your way to send someone to a catholic boarding school in a state where child abuse is allowed? That wasn’t just to take a non-active role. That was partially punishment. Though equally in fairness, the tennessee part might just be to justify her southern drawl, and not because it’s legal (Or presumed-legal)
And while being well off definitely let her avoid the worst of being black, it’s still, you know, being Black. Amber is probably middle class, if not as well-off within it, and she seems to have avoided getting so much as a peep. It’s like being black still sucks harder than being white without mountains of money to work with. Not that Sal actually has access to that money – her parents seem unwilling to really swing their class around on her behalf, whatever it is. Just to give her the basics – motor transit (which /is/ a basic in rural america) and a college education. Definitely comfortable, probably not particularly rich.
Gamaran – we have signed it, but we have not ratified it. We do that a LOT. Or throw in a bunch of reservations that mean we don’t actually have to do anything as a result of our accession to the treaty that we wouldn’t have done anyway. It’s also worth noting that a big part of the objection is our flat out refusal to bind ourselves to any recognition to positive rights (entitlement to healthcare, for example) which require the government to actually do something, as opposed to negative rights (ex: freedom of expression) which require government inaction. And amongst my biggest Human Rights law pet peeves.
Increasingly, children are sent directly to adult court for violent offenses in the US. In Wisconsin, violent offenders are automatically sent to adult court as young as 10.Yes, 10 years old. They can petition to be treated as juvies, but the default is to treat them as adults. Major case (Slenderman) currently involves two girls who were 12 at the time who went automatically to adult court and ended up staying there.
Of course, Republicans love this “law and order” approach, since it affects mainly minorities. {sigh}
http://www.fox9.com/news/6706506-story
The case in Wisconsin is kind of special, it was a brutal attempted murder of another 12 year old. Take all the facts into consideration. Being tried as an adult, is different than than being sent to adult prison.
More special than other attempted murders? I mean, why have juvenile courts at all if we’re just going to define everything we feel like actually punishing people for as “special”?
Not quite what I meant, no. Court should be court, no matter the age, it’s the punishment that should be different because of the age of the accused.
“Although being tried in adult court gives a juvenile more constitutional protections, it has distinct disadvantages too—including the potential for a more severe sentence and the possibility of serving time in an adult correctional facility.“
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/juveniles-youth-adult-criminal-court-32226.html
I forgot abt juvie … oh um.
Sal did the right thing. Joyce didn’t want to make a ‘big deal’ of it in the first place – Dotty did (I want to say someone else too). Pointing out the simple, unimpeachable fact that nothing was going to happen (Because it doesn’t) saved Joyce a lot of heartache. Reporting Ryan wasn’t going to make her… is it PTSD? Regardless, it wouldn’t make her better. She needs to go see the therapist that Roz recommended her.
Sarah was also in favor of reporting, if memory serves.
Yeah, she was willing to deal with whatever fallout their might have been from her trying to cave Ryan’s skull in.
I disagree. Many survivors don’t want to report their assault initially and then regret it. By then, it’s too late and the evidence is gone. It is ultimately the victim’s decision, but I did feel really uncomfortable with Sal pushing her not to report.
Also many survivors find that calling out the person who assaulted them by reporting and/or testifying against them actually does help with PTSD. Joyce absolutely needs counseling and I would never fault someone for not reporting because it can also be extremely traumatic, but please don’t imply that not reporting an assault is the right thing to do or that it can’t be extremely beneficial to the healing process.
I never got a chance to report my abuser and I’m still bitter that that was taken away from me.
I completely agree, but I think “it’s too late and the evidence is gone.” was Sal’s main argument for not reporting. Wether or not she was right is a separate matter.
Hey, you know who else regrets their decision? People who report and have nothing come of it. And some of the ones who have something come of it too.
It’s like being subjected to laser scrutiny on why you were raped is also kind of fucking painful or something!
Don’t forget those who report and are treated horribly by the cops and court system.
Which is nearly all of them. Also, some of us don’t report and don’t regret it.
I reported twice. Both times the cops did nothing, gave me the run-around, and made me feel like a joke. My friends blamed me for not getting the cops to take me more seriously. The trauma from dealing with law enforcement is real. If I had to do it again I wouldn’t.
*appropriate gesture of support* for having to deal with that shit.
Thank you, Cerberus, you’re very kind. It might be weird, but even little supportive statements like that really helps.
That should never happen. Sad that it does.
All of this. Cops unfortunately do not treat rape seriously and unless you have video tape evidence, a confession, 90 male witnesses and a signed affidavit from a religious authority, it’s really a low chance that it even makes trial, much less conviction.
And cops definitely add on to overall suffering and retraumatize survivors, frequently treating them as the ones on trial, disbelieving people who don’t act traumatized in the “right” way, or believing in rape myths like the rapist in the bushes when most rapists are people the victim knows.
I’ve watched a good number of friends report and cops did nothing while also making them feel like shit and blaming them for their assaults. And everyone has seen the scant few that have made it to trial and the way the survivor is often the one on trial as all her outfits, social media activity, sexual history, etc… is pored over as proof of “leading the rapist on”.
Even for ones that have ended in conviction, the survivors frequently get harassed for years for “ruining the life” of the rapist and the rapist frequently spends ludicrously small amounts of time in jail. It’s a terrible situation overall.
In my rape, I made the call not to push for charges. I didn’t know my rapist’s name, I froze instead of fought, even though there were witnesses, there were no cameras and no one apparently saw anything untoward enough to try and help me. So I had nothing to go on and nothing to pursue and I knew my case would be thrown in the circular filing bin and forgotten.
It’s a terrible calculus a lot of survivors have to make and the numbers are absolutely terrible. I don’t blame Sal even a little for her advice. It was unfortunately likely the best advice (Joyce had slept off the drugs, both Joyce and Sarah had assaulted the rapist and that could be used in the trial against them, Joyce had an unsafe home environment that has been proven to be on a hair-trigger for yanking her out of school) and was the only one that seemed to be aware of the terrible calculus too many of us have to take into account.
It doesn’t spare Joyce the trauma, it doesn’t give her closure. It’s not the ideal. But in our world, we don’t get ideal situations because we still can’t get the majority of the country to take rape seriously… hell, to even understand what rape and consent even are or to view the populations that are frequently survivors as people.
tell the cops–
“NO I MUST STOP HIM ALONE WE SHALL MEET AT THE DOCKS FOR A FISTFIGHT TO DECIDE WHO WILL WIN THE SOUL OF BLOOMINGTON I AM THE NIGHT”
okay that too
wait docks what docks this is indiana–
“EVERY NIGHT I WALK THE EDGE OF THE ABYSS OF VENGEANCE THAT BLACKENS THE SOUL AND IT IS ANYONE’S GUESS WHETHER I WILL FALL IN AND BECOME THE MONSTER I SOUGHT TO DESTROY”
alright
And then the Amber alter resumes control, beating Amazi-Girl into submission and stuffing her into a mental hallway locker for blatant caps lock abuse.
Gary should have a port.
Bloomington maybe has a marina?
“WELL, OK THEN, HOW ABOUT A LOADING DOCK? WHERE IS THE NEAREST WAREHOUSE OR TRUCK DEPOT?”
And thus it all comes back to the Wallmart parking lot.
I’ve decided the Wallmart parking lot is to AG what Crime Alley is to Batman.
Without checking I have decided that it was in the Wallmart Parking lot she beat up Blaine.
Slowly, the Wallmart parking lot will become larger and larger, extending its concrete grasp on the whole world, until it’s the only location left in DoA.
And in the middle of it, Walky is all “This parking lot is like a friggin’ Escher painting”
If memory serves, it was an AAA lot.
*checks*
Yup, AAA, next to a McDonald’s. Northwest of campus. Right here.
STOP RUINING MY HEAD CANON WITH FACTSS
There’s a marina on Lake Monroe, according to Google. Good enough for an inland, non-Mississippi-River state?
The Ohio River is a major shipping thoroughfare, so Indiana probably has its share of docks. Not in Bloomington, though.
Sort of called it on panel 6, first time for everything I suppose
Maybe Sal and AG just might come to actually talk through this interaction?
Just a reminder that is putting out a call for editors. There are quite a few new characters in Dumbing of Age recently and your help is needed if we are to be the authoritative reference to David Willis’ webcomic work.
That’s Walkypedia up there.
So basically, Amazi-girl is Sal, Joyce is Marcie, and Ryan is Leland. Got it.
In another strip or so Sal might catch that as well. If she hasn’t already.
Looks like Amazi-Girl and Sal aren’t so different after all!
*instrumental reprise of the character’s theme, heavy on the deeper brass and percussion*
Those are some deep cuts on the hacked muzak.
I’ll just Jonny Quest theme this.
The original theme, the “Real Adventures” theme or the Reverend Horton Heat cover of the original theme?
I do not recognize the existence of any so-called “Real Adventures”, and was not aware there was a RHH version, so OG Hoyt Curtin it is for me!
He’d get off easy anyway – wouldn’t want prison to “ruin his college experience” or whatever
…Not gonna lie, the hero-archenemy dynamic that Amazi-Girl and Sal got goin’ is…pretty great, honestly. It’s a hero-villain dynamic like Spider-Man and Norman Osborn’s in “A Death in the Family.” I love this, Willis.
I want so badly for Amazi-girl to kick Ryan’s face in, but also not forget what she said about “everyone” not following Sal around and threatening her. I’m also curious what she will do if the crowd turns on Sal once she leaves.
Marcie is still there, she won’t let anything happen to Sal.
As for AG, I don’t think she’ll actually attack him, unless it is in self defense. She will stop him from getting away if she can, until campus security arrives.
To do what? Ryan isn’t even being accused of a crime, because Joyce won’t report it. They have no reason to do anything to Ryan, unless he attacks Amazi-girl first.
Not an expert on US law… Can you report a crime even if you are not the victim=
Oh, yes – eyewitnesses report crimes all the time.
Precisely, I can’t think of a single occasion where Amazi-Girl actually initiated violence.
You seem to be forgetting a certain incident in a parking lot.
That may not have been Amazi-Girl, in the strictest sense of the word. In any case, I’m pretty sure that you could knock together a fairly consistent story about her being satisfied that Danny was in immediate danger.
Lumpy is talking about when AG attacked Sal and her friends, not Blaine.
She still didn’t make a move until someone (Malaya, I think) attacked her. She had to act that way due to her self-image as a hero.
She taunted and harassed them, certainly. She never actually threw the first punch. She instigated, but never initiated.
It’s a thin distinction, I know, but the whole AG/Sal rivalry seems to thrive on such.
It’s not even a real distinction, but it’s a very important one to Amazi-Girl’s mythology.
Yeah, Amber needed it so she could remain morally in the clear but… well she was still being a stupid violent asshole and I don’t feel bad for her getting kneed in the gut for her troubles.
She threatened them and moved to act on that threat. Amazigirl believes she didn’t strike first. Ethics and the law disagree, strenuously.
Oh yeah, I forgot she was there. You’re right, Marcie went let her get hurt.
I’m wondering if Amazi-girl’s morals will let her attack, or at least violently apprehend him. I mean I know she is usually more defensive than offensive, but she does also feel guilt from Joyce.
Crowd seems to’ve returned to just generic crowdiness instead of Thunderdome spectators.
kill rapists tbh
Amazi-Girl uses Logic. It is effective.
But not super effective.
But not satisfying.
Yes, the system is corrupt, and yes, dealing with it by beating the tar out of the people the system doesn’t get isn’t a viable long-term solution.
…but damn if it isn’t satisfying.
Which is why I see this as Sal watching her past self walk out into the crowd. Sal has learned the hard way that the system is broken and there’s no justice for those on the bottom.
But we’ve seen in the flashbacks with Leland, that she’s been the AG before. Being warned off by someone more aware of the broken system (Marcie), but still feeling the need to do something if only to remind the abuser that his shit has some consequences even if the system protects him and punishes you for it.
And unfortunately for Sal, the other wrinkle is that she’s had experience with things like police shootings of black individuals without consequence and has seen how the slightest pushback against that has gone.
“The system doesn’t work” always seemed like a pretty lame excuse to me. Try and get them through the system. Doesn’t work? Take matters into your own hands. Or, if that doesn’t float your boat, start with the your-own-hands bit and cut out whining about the system entirely.
Sal is basically saying “let him get away with it”, whether she realizes it or not.
Except beating him up weeks after the fact just gets you hauled in by the police.
Plenty of workarounds to that. Doesn’t take physical violence to make someone’s life hell. Plenty of ways to frame something in your favor if you do choose to go the violence route.
Personally I’d rather spend time in prison with an assault charge then let someone who hurt a friend of mine go unpunished.
Make it a murder charge if that friend of mine was sexually assaulted.
And even before you get to all that melodramatic violent bullshit, the system isn’t completely broken. Not every rapist walks away. Just because that shitstain Brock Turner got a pathetic sentence doesn’t mean every single one will- that judge isn’t being considered fit for criminal cases anymore, last time I checked.
Your punishment fetish is understandable but does not actually improve the world.
“I’ll take an eye for an eye, and I won’t give a damn if the world goes blind.” -me, just now (and probably someone else at some point, but that kind of goes for a lot of combinations of words)
I’m absolutely sadistic when it comes to those who would seek out the suffering of the innocent. Even more so when it comes to the people I care about. It’s not about making the world a better place, to me.
From a justice standpoint, the world doesn’t get better by letting bad people get off without punishment. If punishing them doesn’t make the world a better place either, you still haven’t lost anything.
People who say “an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind” are either extreme pessimists who see all of humanity as equally evil…
Or they’re just really REALLY bad at math.
Enforcing the eye-for-an-eye law makes you automatically guilty of it, though.
Yeah, the saying should really go more like “An eye for an eye leaves the whole world with a lack of depth perception.”
and what happens when someone takes another eye after having already lost one?
Well then the original saying makes sense again
“I sometime fancy myself an evil which exists to oppose other evils… and on that Great Day of which prophets speak but in which they do not truly believe, on that day when the world is completely cleansed of evil, then I, too, will go down into darkness, swallowing curses. Perhaps even sooner than that, I now judge. But whatever… Until that time, I shall not wash my hands nor let them hang useless.”
-Corwin, The Guns of Avalon
PRINCE Corwin, thank you.
Thank you for pointing that out. The system is not completely broken. Rapist Brock Turner made the news because what happened was unusual.
That’s not to say that other miscarriages of justice don’t happen. But there are also quite a few rapists behind bars–and not for just 3 months.
The system is NOT so broken that you should not report rape or sexual assault.
7% of all rapists actually go to jail get yer head outta yer ass the system is fucked
sorry 7% of rapists who had charges placed upon them, theres countless who get off scott free bc the child or woman who got raped couldnt deal w/ the backlash or didnt understand what happened and didnt report it, kill rapists
Partly because I totally agree, partly because I need to take this opportunity:
I’m with Her.
fucking nice
And only about 4% of rapists whose survivors seek post-rape services (not even close to 100% actually get to the point of having an arrest made, and that’s not even the percentage who go to trial and have formal charges. Here’s a report from one of the more responsive law enforcement agencies, places like LA are much worse and it’s even worse in small towns without oversight:
https://www.sanmateocourt.org/documents/grand_jury/2003/SexualAssaultCasesInSanMateoCounty.pdf
That number compared to those arrested is only about 20%.
So all total, the chances of having a rapist get locked up at all is AT MAX:
.0056% (no, didn’t misplace a decimal place there).
Brock Turner is the exception. But only because it’s shocking that a rapist even makes it behind bars and has the conviction marking his crime as having occurred.
For those who do make it behind bars, his sentence is slightly exaggerated but fairly typical. Prison sentences for most forms of rape don’t typically last longer than a handful of years and frequently arrests for possession of marijuana or for vandalism carry longer minimum sentences than the typical maximum for sexual assault).
The system is Broken with a capital B.
I have no idea where you’re getting your numbers from so I’m going to just link to the RAINN statistics for the US. Which doesn’t address the vast differences between jurisdictions, but does have lots of statistics and infographics comparing conviction rates to other forms of crime: https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
*You’re = everyone so far, not just you Cerberus.
Page 12 of my link, the graphic titled: “SEXUAL ASSAULT STATISTICS FOR SAN MATEO COUNTY – EXHIBIT 4”
2002 data, total trauma services compared to reported rapes and reported rapes compared to arrests.
Also, I’m a liar. I totally misplaced the decimal place. It’s 0.056%. RAINN’s data puts it at .6% overall, but tends to undercount a lot to try and get a conservative estimate.
Still, it is noteworthy that even at best, the numbers still don’t make it to a full 1%.
I’ve done a bunch of research into this subject over the years owing to general activism on consent.
Which isn’t meant as a dig, just an explanation of why I randomly have studies like this laying around in my bookmarks. Honestly, it’s all super useful for when I’m teaching Stats, because the best Stats subjects are the ones the students can feel properly horrified by after they finish their math (content warnings definitely pre-screened in advance).
Cerberus- it’s cool. I didn’t take it for a dog. I’m actually really glad you explained and pointed to the right page because otherwise it’s a 75 page from a random county which may or may not be representative.
* dig.
Freakin’ iPhone…
The “system” is more often than not not distributing justice… for a justice system that more or less means broken in this regard. I don’t disagree that rape and sexual assault should still be reported, but expecting justice is a fairly big stretch.
I completely agree that people should definitely report rape and sexual assault. But the system absolutely is broken.
There was John Enochs, who back in June was convicted of raping TWO women (at Indiana University, coincidentally), and he will spend one day in jail. One. Fucking. Day.
Or there’s David Becker, who was also convicted of raping two different women, and will receive no jail time. He’ll be put on probation and not even have to register as a sex offender. Because the judge wanted him to be able to go to college.
I would consider the system broken if it allowed that shit to happen once in a decade, but it happens over and over and over.
Turner might get attention because his case is extreme, but not that extreme. For every case we hear about, there are many more that are almost as abysmal. Some are even worse, but because of the timing, end up being a footnote on the story of another case that caught people’s attention a little sooner. On top of all that are the cases that don’t even get convictions, and all the cases that don’t even get brought to trial, where the charges that get thrown out entirely, or just dropped because so much burden is placed on the victim that they are forced to choose between seeking justice or preserving their mental health.
Yes, people need to keep reporting it and they need to keep trying, but we have a long ass way to go before we can say the system is working how it should be.
I see the justice system as a sewage pipe. (And by that, I mean I thought up this metaphor about half an hour ago and it’s like three in the morning so don’t judge me) (If any engineers see my metaphor and for some reason it’s not up to par, take care to note that I know jack all about pipes)
In a perfect world, all the shit would go down the pipe. It’d be a very shiny pipe. Not so much as a scuff mark on it.
We don’t live in a perfect world, so it’s understandable that the pipe is rusty.
We live in a very much imperfect world, so the pipe has a few holes in it. Some of them are bigger than others- right near the toilet, there’s this one hole that lets out every single poo that isn’t reported. (This metaphor isn’t all that great, now that I think about it.)
Dropping most of the pipe wording, what I mean by this shitty little metaphor (is this too serious a subject for puns? I’d like to lighten the mood so I don’t seem like an ass again (see the semi-final strip of book six… or don’t, I’m not fond of the memory) but I feel I might be going a little far and anyway imma stop rambling now) is that the system has holes. It isn’t a perfect system. But on the other hand, a lot of people try to make it out as if it were a pipe that was cut entirely in half and every single poo was escaping.
Okay, okay, seriously dropping the pipe metaphor this time because it’s idiotic. I’m really bad with metaphors, not sure why I always gravitate towards using them.
Basically I’m saying I totally agree with you- the system is EXTREMELY FAR from flawless. I would even totally support using the term broken, if it weren’t for my next point.
However, as you said yourself, (specifically regarding Fart Captor here, although this entire thing is basically a reply to all y’all) these things still need to be reported. The system should still be tried, because sometimes it still works. I’m not going to say most of the time, I’m not going to say rarely, and I’m certainly not going to bring up statistics. For all the good you can do with them, you can also do a lot of harm. All too often one statistic can bend one’s perception when another would even it out, and it would take a smarter man than I to tell you which ones you’d need to provide to give an accurate view.
The “next point” I made mention of is that too many people call it off as a broken system, and because of that you have people like Sal- not wanting to report it in the first place. Not wanting to try that system.
The pessimistic attitude towards our legal system is part of what leads to the shitty world we live in, where judges and cops are commonly considered the bad guys. Wherever issues exist, both points need to be stated fairly or the end result will be one extreme or the other- and they will almost always be worse than before.
The system is not irredeemable. We don’t need to tear it down and replace it with something completely different (though with the number of flaws it has you could almost make the claim that fixing it would be doing just that). There are many good aspects of the bare structure that should be left in place, it’s just that the current implementation has a lot of downright horrible problems.
Indeed.
Cops are assholes in general, but to take the mad libertarian stance and take the whole system apart? That’s nuts. It leaves you prone to the person holding the most guns.
But the shoulds that you’re saying here? Who pays for this? Do you have ANY IDEA how the majority (and yes, majority, I’ve been a sexual assault survivor advocate for 17 years) treat survivors? Do you know the things that attorneys and judges and police officers are nearly garaunteed to say to a 18 year old at a party with alcohol in her first month of college? Do you know what it’s like to blame yourself for “putting myself in that situation” (which is bullshit but how rape culture works) and then to have people doubt you, mock you, and call you a liar?
The process of reporting, for some survivors, is like being raped again. So fuck “should.” They should protect and care for themselves, whatever that looks like.
I suppose I’ve been too busy hanging out with the minority, then.
I have no reason to call you a liar, so I’m therefore inclined to believe that you’re saying things accurately. If you’re saying things accurately, then I really don’t have an argument against your points.
But nevertheless, your way involves letting rapists go free. They’ll have more victims. They’ll go completely unpunished. They’ll probably think they’re living pretty good lives.
And that idea? Some motherfucker like that going on about their business? That pisses me off more than anything.
I’ve never claimed to have all the answers, but someone has to have an answer to this problem. It’s a problem we all like to call out as being a problem, but nobody ever wants to bring up solutions.
That’s why I will continue to say that sexual assault needs to be reported. If it wasn’t, even when a solution eventually comes up- even when the system is fixed- nobody will want to report it. They’ll continue to live in fear. I can’t abide that.
Lin is right. That’s the typical result. One of my friends had what would be considered the perfect case. Outside, by a stranger, in front of a public place, lots of witnesses, heavily marginalized offender (he was black and homeless).
Cops still spent the entire time while getting her statement trying to make it out like she must have consented to it and called her a liar and a slut because she had seen the guy on the bus twice before and apparently that was proof of a close friendship and consent. The cop also frequently told her that the case was going to go nowhere and was she sure she wanted to file a report knowing that it was going to go nowhere because she didn’t have a name or an address.
And that interaction is not atypical for cops investigating sexual assault reports.
And yeah, there’s no good solution. And rapists are going free. And it’s just gonna be that way until we fix the underlying problems that put the rape survivor instead of the offender on trial in rape trials, that lead to wild disinformation as to what rape is or that one can do something to “deserve it”, that lead to folks believing rape myths, that lead to folks not believing and trusting survivors and viewing fake rape accusations as a real thing that happens any more frequently than any other fake accusation of a crime.
And so the current ways to best combat that are the least sexy. They don’t involve survivors suffering for years on the vain hope that their rapist will see a jail cell and dealing with years of abuse for ever “daring to accuse a good man”. They don’t involve just beating them up (despite how satisfying that is).
They involve slow work educating everyone on consent, calling out bad behavior, increasing bystander intervention, increasing survivor support resources, and just generally getting more educated and better about rape.
Changing the culture to change the world and system to give rape reporters a fighting chance in the future.
Yeah, at this point trying to continue my side of the argument would actually just be me being stubborn. You’ve won me over, the system needs more than a bit of duct tape.
No. No, it was genuinely not. I mean, inasmuch as getting released 3 months after is, sure. In that ‘nothing of consequence happened to him’, brock turner is the norm. The successful prosecution rates for rape look good, if you don’t actually know anything about the criminal justice system, but it’s in the neighborhood of 70%. For reference, the overall prosecution rate (IE if it gets to trial, does the defendant get found guilty) is 95%. But most rape cases are thrown out before trial, because ultimately most rape case law is inherited from the common law, and the common law didn’t think women’s word was worth anything, much less in regards to rape (For more than 600 years, white dudes have been insisting that women would just lie if they were taken seriously by the law). Those cases can’t reasonably be won, so prosecutors don’t even bother trying. They can’t win, so they’d rather nail someone they have an actual shot with (It’s worth noting that 95+% statistic is what they’re /graded/ on, as public servants. But there’s also the simple fact that the court’s resources are ‘better spent’ somewhere where a conviction is actually in the cards).
Spoken like a man who likely has little to fear of ever being raped himself and doesn’t understand what rape actually is and what it does to the person who is raped. You probably think it’s “just sex” that decided to “jump the queu” in regards to that silly little notion often referred to as ‘consent’, and that things like “implied consent” exist in regards to situations that involve “just sex”.
The only thing I’ll correct Her about is that her percentage is wrong. Last I checked, the actual percentage of CHARGED rapists who serve even a few hours in jail is around 3%.
Why such a low number? Because usually the first thing cops ask when a victim reports their rape was “were you drinking?” followed up with “how much did you drink?” or “why were you alone?” or some derivative thereof that essentially implies “Well, you’re certainly a fucking idiot and you should have expected to get violated. How dare you make me late getting home having to report on something you brought upon yourself”.
But, again, you can’t possibly even fathom what such horrible shame feels like, and that even though your body is in agonizing pain and you’re terrified of the world and the people in it, that feeling like you’ve been tortured and that no one cares is PREFERABLE to being browbeaten into feeling absolutely worthless by a system filled with people that make you play your trauma over and over again on repeat.
Actually, one in thirty-three men will statistically experience attempted rape. Much less than the one in six chance for women, but still pretty bad.
Regardless, yeah, that victim-blaming is pretty goddamn horrible.
Note: these numbers are the ones for the US, and I read them a year ago.
No offense meant, as this is obviously a touchy topic, but I don’t see why you’re assuming that trlkly is the kind of guy who believes that about rape.
Amazi-Girl won’t go to jail, no one knows who she is. ♪Secret identity♫
I see Amazi-Girl corralling Ryan and, if he resists, possibly delivering a little justifiable physical violence in the process of detaining him. She then leaves him trussed up in much the same way that Dina delivered Faz to Ruth, along with a note reading “Courtesy of your friendly campus Amazi-Girl”.
I don’t think Amazi-Girl has ever landed someone in jail.
In the hospital sure, but vigilante justice isn’t admissible in court.
No, but there are witnesses to what happened to Joyce. Once it is known that he did that to -someone-, then other possible victims may come forward.
Key word being may.
bruh nothin happens to rapists in a court of law they could film themselves raping someone post it online then apologize and get off scott free and the the victim has to live w/ relentless bullying and shit bc of victim blaming and rape culture the only way to deal w/ a rapist is to kill them
If you care about literally anything but making rapists lives hell, the absolute last thing you want to do is erode the rule of law in regards to murder. I, for one, do not need more reasons to worry about being killed (Hint: I’m not saying this because I’m a rapist, I’m saying this because the rule of law is one of the few things that keeps me alive. Not the justice system or police, but the belief the system is just and if I do evil things, which of course I am, for about a thousand reasons, I will be punished)
lailah… im twoc who lives in canadas asshole where our police is responsible for 40 000 missing and murdered native american women and our previous gov when approached by this said its not a priority and our current gov does nothing but travel and take selfies believe me i know what its like to have the ppl who enforce the “justice system” want you dead however as a rape victim i have every right to believe that rapists need to die
No. You do not have the right to erode the rule of law further. You flatly fucking don’t. You are hurting enormous swathes of the population, and you aren’t even helping yourself, or future rape victims. Shit, as a TWOC you’re just setting the stage to get yourself murdered too. The police kill you too? Fucking great, same. But the police aren’t as fucking scary as the mass of fucking citizens, empowered to believe they’re allowed to kill you; there are a lot fucking more of them than there are of cops, and even iwthout a massive gun culture, if they want to see you dead, they absolutely can and will. You do NOT fucking benefit here, same as I don’t. I will not see you erode that protection for the rest of us, much less to do fucking nothing.
your reading very liberal here so ill make this crystal clear for you, the government aint your friend pigs aint your friend and neither is anyone who wont do anything for you while knowing that youd do anything for them for some that erodes family for others it excludes most except family
I’m not saying the government is my friend. I’m saying as long as white cishets believe the government works, they won’t murder me. You are not understanding the argument. The Rule of law doesn’t only protect you if the police care about you. IT protects you as long as it’s actually a thing, and the literal rule of the law calls for your death. If you are outlawed, you need to fucking run, and fast. But if you aren’t, it’s /still/ better than dealing with both racist police /and/ every racist tom, dick, and mary. Even if just Dick decides he’s law abiding and will wait for the police to catch up, that benefits you /immensely/. You do NOT want the strictures on murder lifted. That goes well for the numerical majority. That isn’t you.
*probably won’t murder me, I should say.
Trying to make what Lailah is saying clearer, if rule of law for rape is revoked, and it suddenly becomes ok to kill rapists, you can bet your soul that within minutes, some women will kill innocent men that they hate for some reason by pointing at them and crying “rapist!”
@Pylgrim, I don’t actually think that’s the point. Rule of Law is a core concept to the idea of a fair justice/legal system. Just the very idea of its existence regardless of the truth of its implementation provides people, who would otherwise be targeted for a variety of reasons, some form of protection. Mob-Justice and Majority Rule lead to all sorts of nasty things and Rule of Law is the idea that, in theory, helps to prevent that. (among other things).
Basically, people believing that they will face repercussions from their actions keeps some of those people from murdering me, even if they might not actually face repercussions from their actions.
I actually wasn’t even thinking of dudes, but considering rape was a common claim for the lynchings of black and hispanic people in the US, yeah, them too. But given who I was talking to, I figured I’d go ahead and point out it’s her too.
Ah, and yes, Ety has the long and short of it. As long as the law doesn’t hate you too badly, enough to actually proscribe you, it’s STILL better for you than both the Law *AND* the potential mob. Frankly it keeps me up at night. I’m not sure if I’m actually making my life and those of others worse by saying the law comes up short. I think the people who might take me seriously aren’t actually inclined to mob justice, but fuck, what if I’m wrong? And anyone engaging in it weakens things for me, at least slightly
Oh, actually, a further clarification.
It’s actually not that Dick thinks the law will punish him. It’s that Dick is sure the law will punish ME if I step out of line. *THAT* is an extremely hard won protection.
I mean, Dick may also believe that he’ll be punished, but even if he doesn’t, if he can count on the law to fuck me up if I step out of line, he’ll be less inclined to take matters into his own hands. The system works, and I’ll be punished if (when) I do something wrong. It’s a protection from the mob that even a marginally functional system (and that is definitely what we have) fosters. It’s the bare minimum, but damned if it isn’t more than fucking nothing.
@Lailah, that’s definitely the other side of that coin and certainly an important distinction to make clear.
As much as I may have had some inkling of awareness of that part of it as well, thank you for clearly bringing it to light.
TWOC = Taken Without Owner’s Consent, so far as I know. If you intend it to mean something else, please provide the English translation for those of us who are not into your jargon.
Trans Woman of Color.
Hold up here. Since when is the missing women number up to forty thousand? The Native Women’s Association puts it at less than six hundred.
I last heard ten thousand, but I’m not sure about the accuracy of any of these. If anyone has a source for any of these numbers, I’d like to see it.
My number came from this: https://www.nwac.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Fact_Sheet_Missing_and_Murdered_Aboriginal_Women_and_Girls.pdf
Further review shows it is out of date; the RCMP have a report from 2014 that identifies closer to twelve hundred: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/mmaw-faapd-eng.htm
Note: I don’t want this to come across as minimizing the problem; even if the true number is the lowest one quoted it’s still terrible, and a disgrace.
Thanks! I may have gotten confused with the number I claimed.
So is Amber not aware of the justice system regarding white males? I’m genuinely confused…
I mean Amazi-girl
I think she is aware of it but in her own internal story, she has to have faith in the system in order to be “morally right”. She is basically a female batman and the vigilante hero attitude says that they can help the cops out a lot but ultimately it is the police’s responsibility.
Oh wow… that spells out at least some trouble
I mean, this is at least somewhat better than letting Ryan just walk around. Even if nothing comes out of it, he is getting “outed” as a rapist, so… something?
It still annoys me that I look at cases where a black guy gets 28 years because a lady saw him in a dream, but people like Brock Turner get 3 months.
It’s disturbing that this shit is happening in a first world country THIS YEAR
It’s been happening for a long time. It’s just that now we’re starting to actually hear about it, at least some of the time.
Which — disturbingly — is actually progress.
^this
and the fact that people deny that this kind of shit exists or just don’t give a shit about these cases because hey, first world country, get over it, all lives matter etc just gives me a headache
Wait, what? And not the part about Turner.
I am fairly certain Willis said no deaths. So amazi-girl, get Ryan as close to death as possible without actual death.
Maybe he’ll get lots of punches just like Blaine.
The reason why he wouldn’t have a death is that the mourning would take up the whole comic, IIRC, because of the timescale it operates on.
Nobody relevant to the strip would be mourning his death.
That’s a cop-out, at this point. Either Ryan DOES get arrested and the system actually works, Ryan scoots scot-free, or he dies. The first two make no narrative sense.
Amazi-girl making him a paraplegic doesnt sound like him getting out scot-free
You’d be surprised what you can live through?
I’m more worried about Sal being left in the crowd than anything.
I think Sal will be fine. Marcie is there and in uniform. If there is one thing a conservative crowd is generally good at is respecting a white (or white-ish) authority figure.
They don’t understand ASL, though.
I’m not sure Marcie counts as even “white-ish”. The other security types do though.
Huh, so either the racist crowd surrounding Sal was not very big or they are doing a power-walk + ignoring combo that also works very well to discourage cowardly bigots, maybe a combination of both.
Man, that’s a tough question for Sal, though fairly brought up since Sal is the one that said vigilante-style violence is not the solution
Power-walk+ignorance combo is my guess. Plus, I’ll bet some superhero fan is putting together a “testing a possible sidekick” narrative in their head now that they see Sal and AmaziGirl apparently working together.
Yeah, power-walk was my guess, with the crowd angrily trying to figure out what’s going on and why the superhero lady isn’t going after the target they want. I’m expecting them to get considerably less friendly when they see AG going after the nice white boy helping out the campaign instead of the “obvious thug” in all the dog-whistle meaning of that term.
Food for thought, AmaziGirl.
Did Sal ever do any kind of jail time (Juvie hall, probation, whatever) for robbery and taking someone hostage at knife point? Sal’s comment makes me wonder about that.
If I remember correctly, she had a choice between juvenile hall and boarding school, and she chose boarding school.
Juvie, then boarding school hell. Not that AG did anything like jail for stabbing someone with a knife.
Probably citing something like that while it was after the fact, it was a reaction/retaliation to seeing her friend held at knifepoint. Though I don’t know if been said in-comic, but I think I’ve seen it theorized in the comments that Sal getting stabbed by one of the victims may have been ‘helpful’, in the sense that she’s already received some form of punishment.
Amber should have received something, there was mention of her father being pressured to have her go to Psych Therapy/Counseling but refusing.
I do agree about that, Amber did assault Sal and that should have been handled in court. But then again living with her father was apparently a form of hell. So I wouldn’t say she got off easy.
I don’t know the whole story, maybe there is more we have yet to learn about as far as what happened afterwards.
I can’t remember a place in-comic that specified what happened, but we know from what she said to Amazigirl after the chase/rescue that she has a record.
Well, that explains the flashback, then.
Amazi-girl living up to the title. :3
There’s a simple way to remove white privilege from a person- face tattoo. The system never has and never will treat a person with face tattoos like a member of the good ol’ boys club.
So… you’re saying that the solution to our contry’s current woes is to… put face tattoos on Trump, along with Mitch McConnell & Paul Ryan?
I like it.
If only you had come up with this plan 8 months ago! We could have tattooed Hillary also, making Sanders our new Presidential front runner!
It’d probably have been a tight tossup between O’Malley and Sanders, with the super delegates favoring O’Malley (who, in all honesty, would have been a better choice than Clinton at the least). Meanwhile Jeb Bush was the least onerous candidate on the Republican side and would have likely stood a fighting chance without Trump running and would have had a better chance at the office among the swing vote than Sanders or O’Malley, all of which is obscenely painful for me to have to say.
yeah, no, that’s bull
Face tattoos don’t remove white privilege, they remove not-having-face-tattoos-privilege.
Huh. This has been a turn of events.
Okay, so I went back and looked at the whole “what do we do” discussion Sal was a part of, and this strip jumped out at me.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/law/
“The only way to deal with stuff like this is by taking the law into yer own hands.”
Huh.
Bad things happen when you spend generations showing a community that the police won’t help them.
Specifically, organized crime happens.
In nearly every instance. The Mafia, the Yakuza, the Triads, the Crips, the Bloods, the Latin Kings…
It’s a pretty common theme. When the government won’t step up and listen to the people, other groups will.
“Sufficiently organized crime is indistinguishable from government.”
(and, as you note, tends to flourish in times and places when the ‘real’ government can’t or won’t step up and do the job.)
Heck, feudalism, where most governments start(ed), is basically a protection racket that actually provides protection.
Ehhh…depending on the family sometimes only for a couple of generations, but I do find that pretty accurate. Especially considering the Sicilian Mafia may have at least partial roots in the Norman conquest…
Just butting in: basically nobody agrees on when the Sicilian Mafia started. Some say it has its roots in the Norman conquest as you said, other believe it emerged during the Borbonic rule, some propose it began in the XII century…
It doesn’t help that the Italian state started defining *what* Mafia is (and therefore actually recognising that it existed) only in 1982.
Oh my gods, americsns’ desire to believe the absolute worst of all forms of government never ceases to amaze me.
Thanks for noticing, we try.
We believe the worst about our own government, and are spoon fed the idea that we “got it right”, ergo, if our form of government is bad every other government or form thereof must be even worse. It’s actually a somewhat toxic world view that causes a lot of problems within our own society.
We didn’t just get it right, we got it right 200 years ago the first try with absolutely no need to reassess what was there in the first place. So goes the national myth. Whenever someone tells you the constitution is a living document, feel free to laugh in their face.
Hell, modern Somali piracy actually started because large fishing companies were illegally fishing in Somalian waters, keeping the local fishermen from actually making a living in the process. The Somalian government doesn’t have any real authority or even exist because of the massive mess of warlords, so the fishermen decided to start hijacking ships and bringing the crews in to be fined by a local village council. Said companies then found it was faster and drew less attention (because they didn’t want people looking to closely at what they were doing) if they just paid off said hijackers. And because the companies could give bigger payoffs than those village councils, piracy became a very, very profitable but incredibly risky venture. And could be applied to more than just industrial fishing haulers due to the extent of shipping traffic on the Red Sea…
I was actually thinking of regular ol’ individual crimes, like how AG wants to beat up Ryan because the police are unlikely to help at all. Also, all forms of revenge. And suicide among oppressed groups. But yes, organized crime, too.
A little while ago I came across startling figures about violence and class (in Steven Pinker’s The Better Angels of Our Nature (ISBN 978-0-14-312201-2) p.81 ff.). These seem to show that as the State began to enforce a domestic peace (i.e. to prosecute murder as a crime instead of leaving it to the vengeance of the victims’ friends and families) the aristocracy and then the middle class started to become less violent long before those poorer and less powerful. Which would be odd if the effect of law enforcement were deterring crime. The rich enjoyed considerable impunity, as always, and the poor were punished most certainly and most severely, as always. If deterrence were doing the business the poor would have been pacified first because they were punished first and most severely; the aristocracy would have been untouched until about 1740, when the law really started to apply against them. But in fact violence among the wealthy began to decline in the late 13th Century, among the Middle class from about the 17th Century, and among the poor in the late 18th Century—which is not when the law started punishing their crimes, but when it started protecting them.
I think this casts an interesting light on the geographical, socio-economic, and racial patterns of crime in the USA.
Just an aside, Pinker’s Better Angels of our nature is considered utter hackwork amid actual social scientists – it’s no wonder the stats would be shocking – the book is full of cherry picking and bullshitting.
So close to a Furmanism there (“CAN I DO LESS?”)
I am completely baffled by her logic.
If Joyce isn’t willing to testify then they have no case against him (in this one instance). And since you can’t expose him the only solution is to what, kill him?
Joyce has already tried not reporting him, in the hopes that she could forget all about the whole thing, but now knows that this only made her more scared. She might be convinced to report him, which is complicated. Others may corroborate and/or come forward with their own experiences.
And/or, AG could just beat the snot out of him.
The goal is that Ryan won’t attempt to rape people anymore.
She could go all Sin City on him, and “remove the weapon”.
Well, some people from Brock Turner’s home town have come up with a possible option
As much as I dislike the idea of “mob-justice,” I have to admit I very much like that particular solution.
I honestly find mob justice to be too quick to violence to the wrong person, but if anyone deserves to be harassed for the rest of his life it’s that bastard.
Killing him or at least putting him in the hospital, while unethical, would make more sense than just beating him up again. He can’t offend if he’s dead, but he was already beaten up really badly so I’m not sure what doing it again will solve other than making Amazi-Girl feel better (to be fair, I’ll feel good too).
I guess coercing a confession would be one way, but Joyce hasn’t really expressed any desire to press charges, so I dunno how bringing him to justice for that would even work.
To me, it feels like for Joyce to get closure, Ryan would have to face legal repercussions. However, with the way the courts are, that would’ve been unlikely even if they had taken him to the police with the roofied Sierra Mist and the witnesses the night of. I don’t understand how this Amazi-Girl solution will work at all.
There’s nothing unethical about killing Ryan, unless you’re opposed to killing anyone ever.
What the fuck? This is a profoundly disturbing comment.
You can kill in self defense. You can kill to save others. But only if it’s an imminent threat.
Yeah, we talk about wanting some characters in the comic to die, but they are fictional characters. AG would be a murderer if she were to kill Ryan.
I mean it. You are scaring the fuck out of me.
kill rapists tbh
Killing rapists was the main rationale behind lynching blacks.
I’m finding a lot of commenters here who – based on the demographics of this comic alone – would probably loudly and ostentatiously advocate for rehabilitating criminals instead of punishing them when asked.
Unless it’s accused rapists we’re talking about, of course. Then they’ll toss their lofty, First World, I-eat-with-a-fork-and-knife ideals through the window and yell for heads to roll without the drudgery of a trial as loud as any religious conservative mouth-breather.
I’m not scared of them, though. I just experience some odd mix of pity and disgust.
Gee, you think that might have anything to do with the woefully tiny percentage of rapists that ever see the inside of a prison, or the frankly horrifying percentage of rapists that are repeat offenders, some many times over? Fuck off with this high horse bullshit.
I do in fact prefer rehabilitation over punishment. I would also prefer rapists rot in a tiny cell for the rest of their lives, rather than either be executed OR let off on probation (as they seem to be now). If I actually believed rapists could be rehabilitated, I’d be all for that. Not for letting them out of jail though, because their victims deserve the peace of mind provided by steel bars and reinforced concrete.
All the same, fuck you, you condescending, holier-than-thou douchebag.
“I do in fact prefer rehabilitation over punishment.” I absolutely share the sentiment in all regards. I also happen to think that rehabilitation is the last concern of the US justice/prison system.
Yanno, I got robbed at knifepoint a while ago. Dude tricked me into pulling my car over – threw a ball of some sort after I turned a corner – I pulled over to check what it was, next thing I know this asshole opens my door and tells me and my passengers to hand out wallets over.
I managed to kick him right in fucking gut, slam the door and GTFO. Police got prints off the car, arrested him and then had to let him go because neither of us could positively identify him from a photo roll.
I’m pretty sure that it’s a pretty common story and most crimes of the sort go unsolved. Should I be frothing at the mouth and insisting they throw him into gaol based on the prints alone?
One of my friends lives about 500 meters away from the scene. He swears he saw the guy while leaving for work and that the guy recognized him. What about his peace of mind?
Oh and sorry if I sounded condescending. I was trying to communicate regular old contempt, but text has its limitations, obviously.
Yeah, I can appreciate wanting to uphold the rule of law and not supporting straight up murdering people on the street. I agree that we should avoid that if at all possible.
But you absolutely need to understand that rape is an entire different category of thing. If that guy had stabbed you repeatedly and left you to die as he drove off in your car, and when you went the police, you could had to jump through hoops to convince them that you didn’t WANT to be stabbed, THEN you would have some grounds to compare your experience.
Even then, at that level of horrible experience, condescension is still not okay. You can always disagree with people of course, but have some fucking respect about it when it comes to subjects like rape.
* meant to say “contempt” not “condescension” in that last paragraph, but they’re pretty much the same thing anyway.
Reply below BC I can’t into internet
I think a fair amount of the commenters calling for their heads (either one, possibly) have either been the target, are part of a group that are targets, or have friends/family that are victims of rape. Plus it can be a cultural thing, beliefs over which crime is worse than another, or even if it’s a crime, can vary.
I remember seeing a news report about how a teenage couple (male/female) were on a bus, heading home, in India. It was late/after dark, and both of them were raped by like half a dozen guys on the bus. The driver was forced to raped them, lest he himself be raped. While he expressed sorrow over what happened, others didn’t. After they were released, one of them had stated that they (the victims) had deserved it, and it was his right to rape them. This was a learned cultural thing, to my understanding. “They’re out late? That means I can fuck them.”
The whole thing is just disgusting. Barely halfway through the comments here, may just skip down to Cerberus’s critique and call it.
Yes. Yes, actually, killing people without an overriding need is wrong. I mean, eroding the rule of law has consequences far beyond whatever you seem to believe is the case. But also, without actual need, killing people is wrong. If you aren’t defending yourself directly and in the immediate, you are not doing good things by killing someone. You don’t fucking kill people.
I dunno, Joyce has gotten progressively more and more badass since the party. She might be up for taking his ass down.
Joyce’s case on its own doesn’t seem promising, but AG could try tailing him for a while, and try to catch him in the act. It’d be a long shot, but definitely more likely to be admissible in court than beating a confession out of him.
Amber could also rape Ryan, which would be poetic justice….but I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Willis isn’t going to have “and then the protagonist heroically and comically rapes a character in a feel-good moment” in his comic notes, so killing it is.
Joyce isn’t pressing charges tonight (she’s in bed, for one), and we’ve established that he’d get off without punishment even if she did. No one’s going to remember Brock Turner in a year, and any kind of public shaming on Ryan wouldn’t have much effect for the same reason. Beating him up again accomplishes nothing.
I guess the endgame could be Sal talking Amber out of killing Ryan, and the plot does seem to be dovetailing in that direction nicely, but I really just want to see a bad thing happen to a bad person for once, even a fictional one. I want Ryan to suffer to the point where everyone gets uncomfortable reading it.
You’re being fucking weird.
Yeah, that came out way weirder than I meant for it to.
Willis probably won’t have a comedic/heroic rape scene because *it’s stupid and awful*. I didn’t mean to imply that he should. I just meant the options were
A. Nonviolent solutions (ruled out by today’s strip)
B. Killing Ryan (Unlikely but satisfying)
C. Ironic fate worse than death (can be ruled out because it’s weird and unsettling)
D. Sal talks Amazi-Girl out of killing Ryan (Most likely outcome because the Amber storyline’s been building to it)
I’m sure he won’t, because even the suggestion is pretty vile.
buddy, please don’t suggest rape as punishment for anyone ever, even other rapists
just…don’t
justifiable punishment for rape is death
Death isn’t even a justifiable punishment for murder.
its a justifiable punishment for rape though
Some people would make the case that rape is arguably worse than murder.
rape is 100% worse than murder, w/ murder thats it their dead with rape… you remember that shit ok lets put it that way id rather be murdered than be raped again
No. Absolutely not. Not even a little.
Should we think Brock Turner less of a monster if he had murdered a drunk woman in an alley? Should I think of murdering a rape victim as an act of mercy? As a kindness bestowed on the suffering? 14 years ago, when my friend was raped by her boyfriend in a park, should I have put her out of her misery?
I cannot begin to understand the horror that is being raped. I am deeply sorry that you do. But I also hope that you being here to type that comment means that you are still able to find some purpose in living, to have the potential to heal if only a little, to find a reason that living to see tomorrow is better than ending your life today.
I don’t particularly support the idea of killing someone as a form of justice, though I can agree that sometimes, some people just need to die. I don’t, however, support death as a punishment for rape in the general case, but I do understand people who feel that way.
God damn, the thought of rape pisses me the hell off, though.
@Her: Sorry, my comment was ambiguous because I didn’t notice the thread’s to that point where the reply link disappears. I was talking to foamy. (I don’t always double-check that stuff when I’m angry.)
In fairness to us bloodthirsty readers, there’s a distinction to be made here between real-life rapists, who are awful people but still people, and Ryan, who is a fictional 100% evil character we have a god’s eye view of.
It’s entirely possible (even likely?) that Amber takes the moral high road and is rewarded by Ryan accidentally being hit by a truck or something.
Some people do make that argument. They’re wrong.
Having personally known multiple people who have been raped and having seen what it did to them and what they went through…. I wouldn’t be so quick to agree with you.
Being against capital punishment is completely reasonable, but I think we can all agree that if anything warrants the death penalty, it would probably be rape.
ding ding ding your wrong bucko rape is worse than murder 🙂
Fundamentally, my complaint is with the use of and idea that murder is the absolute worst thing one can possibly do to another. That idea is more or less the foundation of our justice system too.
yo foamy why do you hate rape victims jw?
Fart Captor: No.
ety: It is pretty central, yes, and the reason for it is pretty simple: death is irrevocable.
Saying rape is worse than murder suggests that someone who is raped can never move beyond it, never have another happy moment, never contribute anything to the world, won’t be missed by friends or family, and suggests that victims of it should suicide.
I don’t agree with that.
literal rape victim here,i wouldve rather had been murdered in a horrifically violent way than experience what i had
That’s not your decision to make for every goddamn person in the world, and stating it like an immutable fact is dismissive as hell.
^rapists need to die
…oh gfdi, then I posted in the wrong place. Reposting in the right one:
@Her: Sorry, my comment was ambiguous because I didn’t notice the thread’s to that point where the reply link disappears. I was talking to foamy. (I don’t always double-check that stuff when I’m angry.)
…and then I noticed what my misfired comment appeared to be replying to and now I feel double bad. Sorry D:
ah well im not really mad more just on edge and freaked bc hey rape wouldja lookit that its fucking everywhere rn also kill rapists
foamy: I understand what you are trying to say, but honestly:
“someone who is raped can never move beyond it, never have another happy moment, never contribute anything to the world, won’t be missed by friends or family,”
that part there is far more disturbingly accurate a description of what they go through than I want to be aware of.
I don’t even want to attempt to express what it does to the victim. I don’t have the wherewithal nor the position to do justice to that side of things because I am not one, but the person they were very nearly might as well be dead and then on top of that the person(“shell of”) left behind has to deal with all the horrible trauma and shattered remains of a life.
Yeah, they can and even do recover and get better and live full lives afterwards (and I’ve seen that too there is absolutely hope), but just because that is still possible doesn’t mean that what happened to them is not worse than death.
Unless the very fact of your life, your existence, is the only important thing to you, there are things worse than death.
@Her. I hope you are okay
@ety hey if the girls who had their rapes blasted online in video format survived i can too just gotta move outta the house that one of my rapists shares w/ me cause thats not something thats ever punished, family rapes
@Her. Oh good fucking god, I don’t even have the words to express anything appropriate in regards to that. I wish you luck and safety.
also @ety im never “okay” im functioning at best bc thats the shape my traumas taken i dont know if ill ever be able to “move beyond” being a rape victim esp bc of how many times and how violent my rapes were i can barely be around people most days how joyce was able to share a room letalone her bed and not be freaking out is something i cant do yet bc traumas fuckin like that memories are fucking like that fear is fucking like that but like based on foamys comments im just letting myself be a shell of a human like sorry but this is what my lifes been like since i was 5 fuckin years old the people who move on dont move on bc rape isnt worse than being murdered they move on bc the rapist was killed or put behind bars for the rest of their life and even then theres still flashbacks and faces that *look similar* to the person who destroyed you theres still nights where you cant do anything but sit and stare at a wall until something forces you to move bc you just cant function that day
@foamy mayb try not talkin over rape victims on something that you literally dont understand
ety: You can’t get better if you’re dead. Death is the end. It deprives you of everything, forever. It deprives everyone of you, forever. There’s no second chances.
For what it’s worth, I come at this from the perspective of someone who survived a suicide attempt. My thinking is heavily influenced by that.
@foamy you survived a suicide attempt im sorry to hear that youve been through that, however, ive been raped how many suicide attempts d’ya think ive made? probably a lot? probably more than id care to admit to strangers before i have therapy tomorrow? maybe you should get ya foot outta your mouth and stop talkin about something you literally dont understand, mayb stop talkin over someone who probably knows a fuckton of a lot more on this subject than you ever will
@Her. I apologize, I misused “okay” in this context.
Like, if any survivor ever got better, and some have, that… that means it’s better than death. The number of people who got better after dying is 0. I don’t knwo what that number is for rape, but it’s higher than 0, and I know /that/ because I know at least two survivors who lead happy-ish lives. If it didn’t get better for you, I’m sorry, but that is not going to change things for the rest of humanity. Odds might be slim, but they’re not 0. Death, not so much.
@foamy: okay, yeah, I can understand your perspective on this and why it is what it is. Your opinion on death being the worst thing that can happen to someone is perfectly valid, but it’s also a debatable one. Just because someone “can” get better doesn’t mean that the place they get better from is not worse than death. It’s a matter of opinion and really more of a philosophical debate at this point and neither side is definitely nor completely wrong and @Her.’s opinion is just as valid and just as reasonable.
IS DEATH THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO A PERSON?
It isn’t a black and white question. “You can get better from anything that isn’t death.” is one way of looking at it, but it isn’t the only way of looking at it.
and for the sake of everyone’s state of mind here this, this topic should probably be left to rest.
This thread seems to be getting into trigger warning territory, if it didn’t already pass into it and [Comment Edited for Possibly Racist Joke]
That’s a matter of some debate.
Okay, a LOT of debate.
As has been demonstrated above. haha.
I’m not justifying rape as punishment, I was ruling out because it’s so obviously batshit we can safely assume Willis won’t go in that direction.
It just…came out really weird.
Just don’t even bring it up as possibility in the future.
Beating him up again accomplishes him being beat up.
Instead of characters waking up and going to bed, the bookends can be Ryan getting beat up and then getting still beat up
Perhaps they can ask Carla to build a machine for that.
that is fucking vile holy shit
kill rapists
She has a point, Sal.
No, she doesn’t. You do ‘nothing.’
Or rather, you work on long term solutions that address the actual fucking problem. You try to reform society, and reform the justice system. The shit that might actually make people’s lives better. Not the fucking comic book version of events.
“You try to reform society, and reform the justice system.” I don’t disagree with the idea, but that is (likely) well more than a single lifetime’s full commitment and complete devotion. I wouldn’t blame someone for being pessimistic about the prospects.
Yes, it’s harder than just lashing out at people, I’m aware of this. It also frequently doesn’t work or makes you a target. It’s also the actual way to try to get do something useful. It’s the actual response to “I can’t do nothing.” Hitting someone is still doing nothing. This still might amount to nothing, but at least it might not.
Yup, how things actually change tends to feel hella thankless and feel like death by a thousand cuts. And how frustrating that sounds is also why a lot of activists can be a bit snippy. Because we know how bad things are and typically are used to having to do the same arguments and fights over and over again in the effort to slowly roll the boulder of culture one step closer to justice.
I should stop using convoluted phrases like “I don’t disagree with the idea” when what I mean is “I completely agree.” It’s an awful habit.
I see. My mistake.
No worries ^_^
However, Amber’s solution is short term. Ok, you can beat him up, but then? His wounds will heal, and then he’ll be free again.
Not really? Joyce was more motivated not to tell because she didn’t want to get pulled out of school by her parents.
just gotta tattoo “rapist” on his forehead
That’s… That’s too close for comfort to my suggestion above.
I retract my suggestion above.
With a knife
I guess this is the closest Sal gets to getting called out on talking Joyce out of pressing charges.
(And yes, I know the arguments against pressing charges. I’m still pissed at Sal over that.)
Ditto.
Where?! *Starts up Pokémon Go.*
The ones like “You shouldn’t have to put yourself under a microscope just to see nothing happen”? Sal didn’t make that, but it’s true.
Joyce also didn’t want to press charges, because she felt that it would cause her parents to find out what happened, and pull her out of school as a consequence.
Joyces decision was based on not wanting her parents to make her leave tho, not Sal.
Yeah, that comes into play as well, but there were some people who gave her reasons to press charges, and others who told her it was best not to. Sal was on the latter camp. Not saying she’s *responsible* for Joyce’s actions but she at least did support her not pressing charges. Not saying she should feel guilty forever but it may be good for her to see someone that is aware of how the system works and still tries to see a person who did an illegal thing face the consequences.
I felt Sal pushed more for acknowledging that it was a valid option, and that it should be up to Joyce, because Sal does know how the system works, she’s seen it. And since Joyce’s fear that her parents would pull her from school definitely seemed well-founded, and they’d already waited long enough to hurt the odds of success, I can’t say she was wrong.
Not really. Sal’s point was that the cops wouldn’t help because they’re all just pricks and that the only real way to deal with it was to kick his ass themselves.
But yeah, you were right that Sal pointed out that they never got his name and that they didn’t have proof, so she wasn’t wrong there.
Sal also made the point that both Sarah and Joyce were going to just turn up an cop to aggravated assault (though they were at least partially justified), but without other evidence, making them likely to have charges pressed against them. I mean, can you imagine how Sarah would have fared?
Yeah. I thought of that moment as a serious mistake on Sal’s part, that she was letting her “must be hardcore rebel” shtick interfere with getting Joyce help, but in hindsight and seeing more of Sal’s own experiences, she really wasn’t wrong. They might have had a shot if they did it there and then, but otherwise, well, you’re right that Sarah was probably going to get in more shit than anybody.
gatdangit i forgot to change my name back
I wouldn’t have noticed the name thing if you hadn’t pointed it out. I was too scared by your gravatar ;P
These are the thing which make me appreciate this comic. The story has reached a point where earlier scenes really start blossoming with new meaning. It also says a great deal about how different Sarah’s experiences have been, and potentially the amount of risk to her career path she was willing to take on to do right by Joyce.
I think Sal spoke from experience, but she also seemed to lack some insight back then. Because, ok, the system never worked in her favor, but she’s a black woman.
Joyce is a white girl from a well-off (I’m going to assume the Browns are well off since they could afford to raise four children AND send them all to college) Christian family. Joyce is less likely to be dismissed by the cops than Sal.
(That both are discriminated because they’re women is a valid counter-argument, though)
While I agree the system would treat Joyce better, Ryan has all the same privilege as her, except he’s a man.
If nothing matters and nothing will make a difference, why not do what you feel will do a little good?
Eat at Arbys?
no we’re closed. Weekdays at 11 and weekends at 12.
XP
(Yeah, I work at arby’s and it destroys your soul.)
Then buy new shoes! Thus: new soles!
50 EXP
(Waitaminute! How does it destroy my soul?)
Working at Arby’s destroys his/her/etc’s soul.
That’s the entire fast food sector honestly. Inevitably when you work in that sector of the food service industry you grow to hate the companies due to their operational MO and to distrust any food made by near anyone below the age of 20 because they typically don’t care beyond their next paycheck so form all sorts of disgusting habits they shouldn’t have when handling food.
Arby’s, We’re not Rapists (We Think).
Because ‘what feels good’ and ‘what actually does good’ is not the same thing.
Did It “feel good” when you you talked past a rape-survivor?
“If it didn’t get better for you, I’m sorry, but that is not going to change things for the rest of humanity.”
This is some of the worst things Ive read on the internet. Including Youtube comments.
“Odds might be slim, but they’re not 0. Death, not so much.”
Were you “doing good” when you snarked past someone else’s trauma?
Maybe you should write A book, “Lailah mansplains away your rape, trauma and mental Ilness and suicide” . I bet it will be a best seller.
Ps: Congrats on being the worlds first female mansplainer. Go Gender equality.
Felt like shit, sweety, but I am not going to have anyone, even a rape survivor, get me and a bunch of my neighbors killed because she wants open murder on one particular crime. That works out motherfucking badly. Hell, if she’s a TWoC, she is literally on the chopping block for this exact same thing.
From the top:
Okay. I mean, are you going to disagree that some rape survivors get better?
Yes. Yes, I would say that reminding people that death is the worst thing we can do is probably a good thing.
Being called a ‘mansplainer’ by some random guy:
This is next level shit. I really hope you just fuck off, especially given that I’m the one dealing with the consequences of my words on a societal level.
My friends, this is an incredibly sensitive topic, and the comments are getting heated/personal. Can we take a break, please? It’s an important topic, but it’s ridiculously difficult to talk about it online without misunderstanding and hurting each other.
FUN FACT:
The main reason why Ryan never appeared in Questing of Age was that I felt that the character was too dark to work in the story.
Umm…
…
…
…
…
…
…no comment
And you feared for your life?
The only way this story ends happily is it Amazi-Girl kills Ryan. Just fucking beat him to death in an ally somewhere and get drinks afterwards.
nah what you do is you rip out his lungs and drive his chest in w/ sals motorbike
But underage drinking is illegal.
Ok the moment we’ve all been waiting for time to Lynch him.
Good to see someone use the word here.
The real problem with all the “rapists should be killed” talk is that if there’s anything that works even worse than the justice system for rape it’s mob justice. If the courts are biased towards letting rich white men off, how much more will that apply to personal, extra-judicial vengeance? Weren’t accusations of rape of white women one of the most common excuses for lynching of black men?
I know in this case, this being fiction, we know Ryan’s guilty, so it’s easy to join the mob, but weren’t we all just complaining about the mob calling for Sal’s blood? I know, I know, that’s completely different.
Thanks. It’s getting a bit uncomfortable in here.
This whole comments section is really squicking me out today with all the calls for real-life violence. I think I’m going to have to peace out for awhile.
It might be helpful to consider that a large part of the crowd who want to see Ryan get curbstomped are talking about a cartoon character. Ryan doesn’t feel things, he’s not a person, and given the prevalence of rapists who are able to escape justice he ends up being a convenient target for a lot of aggression towards actual criminals like Brock Turner.
OTOH, there’s a lot that seems to go past the usual “kill Mary”, into “We should really do this to real people in the real world.”
OTGH, I can’t really argue with the failure of the justice system to deal with rape. So hell yeah, triggers all around.
Agreed. I know it’s different being as it is fictional characters, but. yeah. I may not trust the justice system (and be involved in paralegal studies in part because yeah, “if the system doesn’t work WE NEED TO CHANGE THE DAMN SYSTEM” is in fact a thing,) but I trust mob justice even less because if the criminal justice system is prone to racial biases and unpleasantness DEAR LORD WHAT DO YOU THINK MOB RULE IS LIKE, let me tell you it is BAD.
And ESPECIALLY as it applies to rape.
Yeah, comments have been really dark this time around.
Part of me is surprised that comments are still allowed, though while it uncomfortable, it’s does seem more discussion and not anger and kill and “Ryan’s just trying to study”. Depending on how the next comic goes, Willis might just shp the comment section off to Cuba.
“Willis might just shp the comment section off to Cuba.”
that might not be a bad idea, at least for a little while.
Mary spends 90% of her appearance as a peridot-tier comic relief villain, so it’s harder to take her seriously and thus her doing more serious bad things has a bit less emotional punch because we know she’ll get a just comeuppance. I like Mary in the same way I like a lot of villains. She’s *entertaining* in her petty evil. Ryan’s not fun, ever, even in a butt of the joke way, and he’s not cartoonish enough to abstract away.
Also nothing Mary’s done is enough in the same cosmic tier as being a rapist.
No kidding.
Now i wonder what other titles Willis is sitting on?
“Docked”, ………nah thats all the dirty ones i can think of atm
Holy shit, I totally expected this strip to be the crowd turning on Amazi-Girl or at least going after Sal themselves.
So if Amazi-Girl is always prepared for anything, does she have a mic hidden in one of those pouches so she can drop it?
Amazi-Girl, you’re in the right place for all the wrong reasons but at least you managed to keep your personal issues at bay when something more important came along.
I don’t know what either of them can do at this point, but I hope it ends badly for assault guy (from the tags I assume that his name is Ryan), but bad in a fair way not in a random violence towards him. I mean, yeah, he kind of deserves- no, no, no. As cathartic as it would be it wouldn’t be right but what he did wasn’t right and oh my god I’ll stop now.
I do like how Amazi-Girl simply states what she feels she has to do and trumps Sal’s cynicism. Maybe this is not the case, but sometimes cynicism is just a way for people to justify not doing anything.
Somehow this makes me think that Sal has this “No” attitude towards everything. No to stupid vigilanteesm, but also No to reporting the guy to cops. And Amazi-Girl is “Kay, sit on your ass and do sulk that the world is unfair while I try to make the world a slightly better place.”
Agreed; Sal has become so disenchanted and disaffected that she just wants to sit in a corner and sulk. However (and this is the point) she doesn’t like doing this and prefers to take action. You just need to find the right way to conquer her ingrained cynicism and defeatist belief that making the world better is impossible.
The sense I get is more that she prefers to stay out of it because everything sucks, but when she’s actively confronted with something she can help, she can’t justify not helping to herself.
ITYM “lean up against a wall and sulk.”
[/frivolous_aside]
In her personal experience, of which we very recently saw a flashback, both of those things went badly for her.
“Somehow this makes me think that Sal has this “No” attitude towards everything. No to stupid vigilanteesm, but also No to reporting the guy to cops.”
To be fair, that’s Sal saying no to two things, not everything. She very much supported the vigilante justice that Ryan got on the scene of the crime when he got his head bashed in by a bat and stomped on. However, she didn’t know that Joyce was going to be so heavily effected by the aftermath.
Well yeah wording could have been better but Sal just has this “Everything sucks, why bother” attitude here. She is just so jaded and disappointed while Amazi-Girl is actually trying to make the world a slightly better place even if her methods are Highly questionable.
I fully expect Sal to react with outraged and ineffectual anger. That’s the normal human response to having your world-view upended in such a manner.
Amazi-Girl isn’t the hero IU deserves, but she’s the one they need right now…
1. Blind fold Ryan
2. Hang him head down from a tall building
3. Get him to confess.
4. Accidently, let go and have him land in a dumpster a story or two below…I realize that contradicts the “tall building part”
If he’s blindfolded, two stories could seem like twenty. Just need him to believe.
There maybe a few hidden pitfalls with the plan …
I was reprising the scene from the Dark Knight Returns. Batman takes off the blindfold when the villain is pointing downwards.
I suspect Ryan is a serial wannabe rapist. Getting him to confess might solve a few complaints.
The “wannabe” part is debatable.
Sure he didn’t get to Joyce (not for a lack of trying mind you) but we have no idea how many other girls he’s done this to, and if he was or wasn’t succesful.
I’m afraid it’s a large number, because Ryan employed a series of tactics and plans to get alone with Joyce, starting with singling her out, which gave me the impression he had already done this many times before.
Congratulations, now no jury in the world oculd ever, POSSIBLY believe he did it.
You had a shot with Joyce. Especially Joyce as she was. It wasn’t a GOOD shot, but at least it was within the bounds of possibility, especially if a blood test turned up the drugs (Which it might, if one was actually /done/). But it wasn’t a good shot, and she’d go through hell first. She did not want to go through hell.
But you do that shit? Nobody on planet earth is going to believe this happened.
happened too long ago blood tests arent very reliable and 7% of all reported rapists are actually sent to jail almost all get out early im sorry if this is a shock to you but people really fucking hate rape victims
7% isn’t 0.
It’s also lower than 7% by a wide margin, I have no idea what fairy song you sing yourself to think it’s that fucking high. It’s like, 2.5% of the ones that actually get reported. But Joyce is a white girl from the majority religion, with extra pure coding because of the manner of her religiosity and her behavior. IF a blood test was done quickly enough to catch the drugs, she had a real shot. ‘7%’ of all rapes is not the whole story, because more vulnerable people are targetted first, and those vulnerable people are taken even less seriously. Joyce is the majority in nearly every way /except/ she’s not male. Her shot wasn’t great, but it was real (and probably better than even your 7%)
Yes, I know the fucking problems. Probably better than you – I am an old fucking hag who has dealt with this shit for a long fucking time.
So what would you do?
It seems to me you’re falling into the same trap as Sal.
There isn’t a thing you can do about the situation. Therefore, you try to make the situation not happen. You try reform the system so you’re not dealing with this situationg oing forward. It’s not a ‘trap’ to realize the system is fucked when there isn’t something you can do about it. Real life is not as satisfying as comics. There isn’t a single discrete thing you can DO about this situation, so you look past it.
Actually, I’d say she had a pretty good shot, had they reported immediately and gotten blood samples analyzed at once. Not only is Joyce a sympathetic victim – white, Christian, no sexual history to attack, not drinking, but she was actually drugged. There were witnesses.
There’s no “he said, she said”. Very few of the usual weasely excuses could even be twisted to apply.
This was pretty much the perfect storm of evidence. The best attempted rape case you could bring.
Once they’d waited till morning, with the drugs out of her system (assuming the drugs wouldn’t still have been detectable, which I wouldn’t bet on), the case got a lot harder.
My point is that there are other courses of action open to Amazi-girl, other than either beating the crap out of Ryan or using Joyce to try and pin a crime on him.
Other options could include …
stalking him until he does it again
putting up wanted posters
etc etc.
In ancient times, public shaming was common (the stocks and the like). Maybe grab Ryan, keep him on ice until tomorrow and leave him in a public place with a big sign around his neck reading ‘rapist’ or something.
Certainly in keep with the vigilante theme.
Me? I’d go for the stalking. Mind you, Amazi-girl would have to change her clothes. She’s fairly non-obvious in that blue-and-yellow uniform.
Unless she rebrands as Ikea Woman: All your modular interior design needs catered for!
You do that to me, I’d confess to trying to rape Joyce. Maybe we can go back to cops beating confessions out of suspects.
(Well, back to doing it more openly and often, I suppose.)
So, what do you suggest then?
It’s a lousy situation without any good answers. Especially if Joyce still isn’t willing to make a complaint.
About the only things a vigilante can do in this situation is administer vigilante justice – based purely on Amazi-Girl’s personal judgement and understanding of the situation or stalk him and hope to catch him in the act of trying it again and then catching him in the act with evidence that would actually work with the police. The latter is the better approach, but it’s chances of working in the real world would be pretty slim. Even then the stalking has some serious issues.
It’s also pretty much what she thinks she’s been doing to Sal – stalking her, waiting for her to do something that justifies delivering a beating.
I do think the parallels are there and just show why the whole vigilante approach is so problematic. We’ve all just been ranting about how crazy and dangerous and wrong AG is for what she’s been doing to Sal and now we all think it’s great for her to go deliver a beat-down to Ryan. I get it. We know Sal’s not a monster and we know Ryan is guilty, but we shouldn’t be trusting Amazi-Girl to make those decisions, any more than the racist crowd here should be.
I agree.
The least worse option that holds with the narrative is that she tracks Ryan, catches him in the act and, hopefully, takes him to the police along with the victim and evidence.
As you say, her judgment at this point is, questionable. Amber should be in psych-eval. She should not be walking around in public, period. She’s a loose cannon, currently pointing in the “right” direction.
If Ryan were caught, then Joyce could come in and say her piece to the police. It might or might not be used in court, but it may give her closure.
Neither is Sal a monster. She’s doing what her experience has taught her and I would do exactly the same thing. It’s pretty safe to say that we’ve all made morally questionable judgements at same stage in our lives, the older you get the more likely it will happen.
Phone books?
I honestly don’t think having Amazi-girl beat Ryan up for Joyce is going to help her overcome her fear of being out and alone in public. Joyce feels the way that she does about it because thoughts of another Ryan attacking her again loom over her consciousness, and hiding behind her friends as they fight her battles for her, well… I don’t imagine it’ll do much to help her grow from that terrible experience.
Even if some pieces-of-shit like Ryan get away with what they did, I still think Sal was wrong to convince Joyce not to report it. At least Amazi-Girl is trying to do something about Ryan, rather than doing nothing because the system is broken.
It’s a lot more complicated than that. When you out yourself as a victim of sexual assault and point the finger at someone else, 9/10 the Public Condemnation hammer slams down on YOU.
People (especially in small towns) like to think of their communities as safe little bubbles from the dangerous outside world. They don’t like it when someone reminds them that it isn’t true, especially when you implicate one of their own as the source. It’s like all the shit people put Becky through when they went back to Bloomington x 10.
There’s also “Not my Nigel” to consider. People get really defensive about rape, because they believe rape is something “bad people” do. And it’s not that rapists aren’t bad people, but that people tend to view “bad people” as being “bad” 24/7 without redeeming value.
So if they were friends with a rapist and saw good things in that interaction to remain friends, then clearly they couldn’t be a “bad person” and so the accusation must be false. And if it’s false, then there must be a reason that (insert slur for women) accused their friend that shows negatively on her character.
So it becomes this whole thing where they stick up for the “reputation” of “poor Nigel” and this ends up justifying escalating forms of harassment against the accuser who must have some horrible reason for insisting on these “horrendous accusations” against their “dear sweet innocent Nigel”.
It makes the calculus of whether or not to report really ugly. I mean, at the least, since rapists tend to be people you know, it can mean the dissolution of support networks, friends turning against you, harassment, public shaming as a woman who has sex (or public shaming as an nb or man who got raped, as society frequently sees rape as something strong people do to the “weak”), and general badness.
The mob must have noticed the conversation turning slightly more serious.
Superhero dialog has an odd effect on crowds. For instance Bruce Wayne is all “You’re not Ra’s al Ghul, I watched him die” and the lady who introduced them immediately loses interest, nobody else at the party notices anything.
I doubt any of them were actually listening.
This whole time you thought that Sal was Amazi-Girl’s Joe Chill
But TWIST: Sal is actually Amazi-Girl’s Commissioner Gordon
That would be a very interesting twist, wouldn’t it?
I’ve overlooked that aspect, I’ll admit. Also that my disrespect might have – scratch that, it was unwarranted. Apologies for that.
And while I’m not feeling comfortable assessing the relative mental trauma of sexual assault and attempted armed robbery, I concede there is a difference in their public perceptions and how they are prosecuted.
Not gonna lie – from time to time, something will remind me of that, and the fact that I could have been either permanently disabled or killed will sink further in, and I’ll wish for that fuckstain to have had his arm cut off Requiem for a Dream style. And I’ll feel ashamed for thinking it.
Which one is worse isn’t really the important part. Even when you’ve been through the same thing, your experience can be vastly different. I ended up creating a crapstorm for myself because of that just a few days ago.
What’s important is that we remember that the other person’s experiences are just as valid as our own, as are the pain or fear or anger or whatever other else those experiences created for that person. Disagreeing with someone or objecting to something they’ve said is fine, but treating them like they were unjustified to have even felt whatever lead them to say it in the first place is usually a shitty thing to do.
Like how that guy’s shirt breaks down ‘Desanto’ into DE SAN TO.
Because the republican party base is often lost past the second syllable in words, especially last names. If it were all together, they’d probably become terrified they were voting for some “URLEGAL IMMGRANT”.
Joyce didn’t avoid reporting it because Sal convinced her she avoided reporting it because she didn’t want her parents to drag her home.
Trouble is; Sal has a good point, and so does AG. It isn’t either-or.
I like the face tattoo idea; it would put him out of circulation pretty effectively. It’s hard to schmooze a potential victim with the word “Rape” on your forehead. (Taking Girl With Dragon Tatto’s idea up one level)
Maybe Sal will follow AG, and stop her before she kills Ryan.
Heartfelt sympathy for everyone in this thread for whom this is triggering/personal.
Incoming Super Angst Duo.
Sal’s gonna be the midnight biker viigilante occasionally teaming up with the popular Amazigirl.
alt-text: Sorry, Willis, this strip only had half-cocked in it. You need to use it as a title a second time before you can cross it off the list. Right now it’s only half-…crossed… which is a single line through it….
….
…. okay dammit I’m confused now.
I didn’t realize this before, but AG does have a point. Most cases of date rape get off because there’s either not enough physical evidence or something that the defense can use to argue “mixed signals”/”she’s lying”/”he’s too good for jail”. But none of those things applies in Joyce’s case.
She was roofied out of a cup of soda in a room full of witnesses, at least one of which was dead sober (Sarah) and saw him threatening her. Not to mention that she sliced his face open when she realized what was going on, something the best defense lawyer in the country couldn’t spin as consent. And she comes from a deeply Christian family, so no trying to assassinate her character as a slut.
If Joyce had called the cops that night, the only way Ryan was getting off is if his dad was the freaking governor or some kind of oil baron.
youd be surprised how a lawyer can turn words against you and make you seem like the villain.
But NOT reporting it accomplishes nothing the system may be fucked but it’s the only real system we have so not using it sort of makes the chances of the guy getting caught from slim to none.
The defense lawyer’s line of attack is “why didn’t she report it right away?” And that might be all he needs.
Now? Sure.
But yo said, “If Joyce had called the cops that night”, which would pretty much kill the “why didn’t she report it right away” line of attack. Even the next morning – “Because I was drugged into incoherence” isn’t a bad defense either. Though by next morning she might have lost the evidence of the drugging.
Content Warning: Defense Lawyer apologia for rape:
“Ah, but see, was it not the case that Joyce had been speaking pleasantly to my client the whole night? And most would agree he had been a perfect gentleman, only looking out for the health and welfare of a fellow Christian. Really, I find it most distressing that Joyce would make these scurrilous accusations to distract from her unprovoked assault on my client, not to mention the assault from her “urban” friend.”
“And let us not forget that there is no evidence that my client spiked the drink. He had no way to know that drink was spiked and tried to heroically brace Joyce’s fall as he realized the duplicity of his fellow party-goers.”
“Also, what was Joyce doing there, wearing such a short skirt. It is noted that she was flirting and dating just the following week with another boy. I’m not saying she is a slattern, just noting that she has had a habit of going with boys and violently attacking them when she doesn’t get her way. Even her mother agrees she has done moral wrong in this instance and is likely lying to cover her shame over her sexually aggressive ways”.
And now I need a shower to get that off me. Ugh, hate how easily I can channel that twisted mindset.
Sometimes, I hate being a cis-straight white male. I feel dirty.
Same here.
appreciate the sentiment attached to that (recognizing how terrible cishet white dudes are given more leniency to be) but you really don’t need to. white guilt, or cis guilt, any guilt really, is generally not productive unless you’re one of those people who doesn’t use guilt to bludgeon themselves into a sobbing mess (I’ve heard these people exist, but still don’t quite believe in them).
You know what we (since I’m one too) should do about it?
Let’s make it better.
Time to turn a page.
We aren’t getting a police report or trial out of this. Never could have, even right after the crime. That would consumed the comic for years, just as a death would. Not saying that’s what should or does happen IRL, but the narrative couldn’t support it.
DYW has some resolution planned and most of it will happen tonight. Ryan will get publicly outed in some way, which may or may not put a permanent end to his crimes. Joyce’s identity will not be revealed, since that would be a one way trip back home. AG wins in that she gets better control over Amber’s violence and anger. Sal becomes a little less cynical and world weary. Joyce gets to feel safer from Ryan, though aware that Ryan isn’t the only one of his kind. Nobody dies.
I figure he’s bound to try it on someone else. Hopefully, AM will have stalked and be around. This time she won’t let him get away with it.
BTB, in real life, rapists usually have a criminal record involving Breaking and Entering.
Is that rapists who actually get convicted? Cause the kind of party/acquaintance rape we’re talking about here doesn’t really correlate with any other crimes as far as I know.
I would have thought so. It came out of a study of profiling in the UK – which suffered badly under scrutiny – where the conviction database was searched.
> Cause the kind of party/acquaintance rape we’re talking about here doesn’t really correlate with any other crimes as far as I know.
If it’s not reported, then it doesn’t make to the database:(
Considering the comments today, I really wonder where Cerberus is. Hope it isn’t too triggering for them.
I’ll admit, I was scared of jumping in last night as I knew the conversation could go in a super triggering direction. Jumping in now here and there as I feel a bit more able.
*hugs*
Your presence here is always appreciated, but make sure you take care of yourself first and foremost.
seconded. and I’m going to borrow a line from you yourself Cerberus:
*appropriate gesture of support* for having to deal with this (and all that) shit.
I was wondering if everything was alright.
I know that both the comic and (even more) the comments have taken a dark and serious turn, but I feel compelled to note that AG’s face in the second panel is pretty much my favorite Willis face ever.
I like seeing cute Amber faces and not hunched over, grit teeth, fist tightening, yelling at Danny Amber faces.
Mostly I’m just glad I feel okay liking and relating to Amber again.
I don’t know, that one’s good, but I’m still torn between Dina after kissing Becky at the end of book 5, and Sal’s reaction to Billie talking to the maid.
I dunno, I think Marcie’s frantic masturbation face may be unrivaled in the category of Best Facial Expression Ever
That was pretty great
Amazigirl:
*Drops mick*
There are no more micks. Hank already dropped them all.
And there are no more closets. Becky has blown them all up. All of them.
And there are no fucks left. Carla has so few to give that the total adds up to a negative amount.
And there is no shit. Like, at all – no one poops any longer. Toilets are boarded up and Walky has nothing to joke about. Because Malaya has so little shit to give that we’re all out.
….this is getting destructive.
We will always have butts.
*butt drop*?
Sounds like a Roller Derby manoeuvre.
There will always be butts.
You rang?
*slowclap*
You just won this conversation.
Is this a mic drop? It seems more like an awkward flail to salvage a bad situation. I thought mic drops were more about laying someone flat with some amazing verbage.
ey what the hell bro
I have a few ideas about what you could do Amazi Girl.
Travel back in time and assassinate Optimus Prime while he’s still asleep, thus ensuring Decepticon rule of the future?
(my knowledge of Transformers is limited entirely to Beast Wars. If I wanted to get more into it I would really love some recommendations. Those IDW comics are supposed to be good right?)
I started with Last Stand of the Wreckers. I love watching Autobots get wrecked.
Alright, I’ll keep that in mind.
You’re alright for a giant murderbot.
Megatron is one of the best commenters here. I’m glad he might be poking at things again. I wasn’t much for um, the Payday folks, though it was nice they had fun, but dis guy.
There is no way, in any shape or form, that killing any kind of person based solely on any kind of past deed will ever be acceptable from a legal perspective? Why? Because what might be right for the individual is not necessarily right for society.
One does not condone coldblooded murder, ever, or you’ll find all manner of people justifying through stress or maliciousness that their circumstances fit the criteria. There’s no take backs from death. That is why we have courts of law. That is why we damn well let rapists walk free if the court of law fails to find him guilty despite overwhelming evidence. That is why youth ought to damn well get out there and vote for a better system if this means as much to them as they say it does, rather than lounge around their PCs and living rooms justifying why we should act like mafias.
Porto, that kind of condescending attitude has absolutely no place in this kind of conversation. Take that shit back to the dumpster fire you found it in
I know there’s a word that means “I agree with you but the way in which you’ve said it makes me dislike you anyway,” I just can’t think of it. If it were that fucking easy to fix rape culture, we fucking would.
Whoever said it was easy? Fixing racism isn’t easy. Fixing misogyny isn’t easy. Fixing any of the world’s cultural problems isn’t easy. The problems don’t go away quickly. To an extent, their roots are part of the human condition, vices born of weaknesses we will never escape as the human race is now. Rape is one of the worst crimes possible. It’s not a magic button to justify vigilante killings. There are more constructive ways, more lasting ways to make change happen, and they don’t involve throwing away the very idea of society.
I see good in AG trying to catch evidences or witnesses against that rapist (or “sexual offender”), rather than to bringing “justice knuckles” to action.
There is a good reason for the Law to exist. It is to perish the thought of lynching someone, be it for a good reason or not. Seriously, don´t ever ever trust the “herd” mindset, which is very common in mobs. And it is very, very easy to fall into its clutches. We live in society, afterall. I´ve seen already seemingly perfectly educated people giving into emotional response (it is easy to yell “Burn that rapist!” in the middle of a mob).
Somehow, humankind as a whole has tried, more or less, to create laws. Rape, generally, is considered a heavy offense unto someone, but the corresponding need of proof or the attribution of the crime can vary. Sadly, outside of some First World countries, that notion (about rape, see “tarrahush” in Islamic States, for example.) is still “primitive”, conditioned by another ideas, customs or values.
Sal doesn´t trust the legal system, but, she should try to weed out that even inside of that legal system (let´s not kid ourselves, sometimes as full of holes as a swiss cheese) , there is a purpose, and even good people believing in the good fight.
Yesterday, I tried to upvote ‘Rule of Law’ several times. Trying again, well after the fact.
Panel three and five sum up to me the problem with Sal, first off she’s deciding what Amazi-girl can and can’t do, as if she and only she knows what best in this situation and then in the fifth panel shes decided that, because of her experience, the system is broken and nothing will happen to Ryan therefore don’t even bother
Its fine to have to opinions and to express them but she never considers her opinions might actually be wrong or even harmful, shes far too rigid and doesn’t think far enough ahead of the implications of her opinions or advice so hopefully what Amazi-girl says in the sixth panel might actually get through her stubborn noggin
Not exactly.
Sal “deciding what Amazi-Girl can and can’t do” extends to her breaking the law, nearly getting herself killed and trying frequently to harm Sal. And Sal is right. The system is broken and the most you can do is choke a bongo after they avoid any actual consequence for their actions.
The only person who’s getting any blame here is Amazi-Girl, and she’s doing it to herself and admitting that the reason Ryan got away was because she made a scene. Which is correct, and pointedly, Sal is not jumping on that because she clearly sees that AG wants to do good for someone who’s been wronged by a person who will never face consequences for their actions.
It’s not that Sal is a jaded cop with 20 years on the force who’s seen too many dirtbags walk free because she insists on doing things by the book and her idealism is revitalized by that Amazi-Girl being a loose cannon who doesn’t play by the rules. It’s a complex situation running the gamut from societal biases, personal justice, rape culture, and our inability to punish criminals for certain crimes, and there flatly is no right answer.
But who is Sal to decide what Amazi-Girl can and can’t do in this situation, Sal knows the system is broken, Sal knows that sometimes violence is the only response yet shes still telling Amazi-Girl to not go of half-cocked yet its Sal that doesn’t have all the information
Amazi-Girls actions led to Ryan getting away yes but it was Sal that helped Joyce to decide not to go to the police, who knows maybe if Sal had said nothing then Joyce might still not have gone to the police but the hero worship Joyce has/had for Sal mean Sals words would have had a big impact on Joyces thinking
Sal gets to make calls like this because Sal has:
– Seen Amazi-Girl nearly die horribly trying to do good.
– Has been personally victimized by Amazi-Girl twice now.
Look, it wasn’t best advice in the universe but that’s because Joyce, Sal, Sarah and Dorothy were in a completely fucked up situation. That was my point; there is no easy answer to what Joyce should have done because Joyce shouldn’t have had to make that call in the first place.
Heres the thing though Sal wasn’t at the party, she overheard and joined in the discussion and then immediately starts telling Joyce the police aren’t going to do anything and then leaves and has virtually nothing to do with the after-effects of the decision Joyce makes
If you going to give advice then you should make sure you’re willing to deal with the crap that may (or may not) come after
Sal isn’t deciding anything for Amazi-Girl. All she’s doing is telling AG that she shouldn’t be doing this. She doesn’t grab her or stand in her way, she just tells her what she’s doing is a bad idea.
The fact that she doesn’t know 100% if she’s right doesn’t make her some kind of asshole for doing so. Both of them have valid points here and neither of them is completely right or completely wrong.
Its certainly not as if Amazi-Girl always knows what the right thing to do is either.
Sal has set herself up as the “adult” in this loose collective, the one with all the “experience” of the outside world, the one who “knows” more then anyone else (as based on her use of the term kids) so not an asshole no but if you’re going to set yourself as the font of all knowledge and be willing to share that wisdom then you should have all the information and not go off “half-cocked” as she just accused Amazi-Girl of doing
I really don’t understand where you’re getting all these rules from that apparently need to be satisfied before it is acceptable for Sal to express her opinions.
I’m probably projecting a bit here but Sal reminds me a lot (uncomfortably so) of my brother in that their attitude is “I’m right you’re wrong and that’s that” actually a bit like Joyces brother as well come to think of it
Her arrogance in believing everyone else is a kid (because she’s, like, a real adult) means that she doesn’t have to worry about anyone else’s opinion because “they don’t really know”
Like most of the charcters on here she also has her good points as well but her I just find her quite arrogant
Ah, I can understand that.
I’ve always seen her as simply stubborn, and a bit blunt. And she insisted at the end that it was what Joyce wanted that mattered, I never found that encounter to be very pushy.
That’s true except that Sal pushed her views first plus at the time Joyce hero-worshipped Sal (and Sal knew it) so whatever Sal had to say would have a big influence on Joyces choice
I guess when you have that kind of influence over someone you should be careful when using it
I dont know if this is a good thing or not..
Maybe they will talk things out after this??
I would very much like that!
I sadly think that once the dust has cleared Amber will go back to “grr must hate you for justice” but there’s definitely going to be some holes punched into the entire mythology she’s built around Sal, and going forward I think we’ll start to see Amber gradually undo it until eventually realizing the whole thing is bunk.
I think Amazigirl should use the pic she snapped, print it out and plaster it around the school, at frats and at bars labeling him as a date rapist.
That could be considered libel, and possibly could attract inquiries by the police, if Ryan denounces it. I dunno. Perhaps in the US it is possible.
What are they gonna do, sue Amazi-Girl?
“The Trial of Amazi-Girl” just doesn’t have the same oomph as “The Trial of Magneto”, sorry.
“Your honor I know I kill people literally all the time but I have a sad backstory and my kids don’t call me anymore, so I think my personal redemption arc is sufficient.”
And then Grant Morrison had him snort drugs and herd people into ovens.
Some years back this was being done at some universities somewhere in the US. Pictures and names of alleged rapists were being posted and the furor you’d expect erupted. Don’t know how it all turned out, sorry.
I feel that, if we publicly post and warn neighborhoods about pedophiles, we should be able to do the same for rapists.
Do we publicly post and warn neighborhoods about people we (and by we, I mean random self-appointed vigilantes) think are pedophiles or are you talking about things like the sex offenders list – which covers far, far more than pedophiles?
I’m talking about the sex offenders list, that watchdog website, and the policy that convicted sex offenders inform neighborhoods when they move in. The vigilante thing, it depends because SOMETIMES people are right with their suspicions and SOMETIMES assumptions are made and they’re wrong. It’d be better to go with the convicted list, I’m afraid. It sucks because so many people go unreported.
I have now been reminded that people who have lived through hell can still be dismissive of other people who have lived through hell. But it’s not my place, nor my desire, to reprimand them for it.
Unrelated to all the angst, controversy, and depressing topics that have otherwise dominated my comments on this strip…
Reading Joyce and Walky, got to the bit where Ruth’s past is uploaded, threw up in my mouth a little at the line “Ryan was a gift from heaven.”
KICK HIS ASS
Oh, and you too, Sal. Do it.
Also, I’m seeing a lot of talk in the comments about rape, and whether Joyce should have reported it or not. I have personal experience, let’s put it that way, and I say that letting this sort of things go unreported is a bad idea. Don’t get me wrong, the system is absolutely screwed. But even though Brock only got three months, does that mean he should never have been reported? And yes, Joyce would have been dragged through the mud even though the only thing she did wrong was trust someone. Like I said, the system is so screwed. But Ryan is still free to do whatever he wants, and Amazi-girl…we’ll have to see what her idea is and how she handles him.
By that same token, though, I don’t blame for a single second any survivor who doesn’t want to get dragged through the mud and retraumatized like that for such a small chance at justice.
Very good point, and it really is sad that that’s the catch. That we have to choose between a small chance at justice or a very shaky and unsteady peace. Sometimes even a lack of closure.
I should clarify that to condemn a survivor for not reporting would be hypocritical, and if that’s how I came off I do apologize. There are so many gray areas in this subject and it’s maddening and sad. We should try to protect each other and keep more people from being hurt but there are other circumstances. I’m sorry if I was accusatory at all, this was just an ill timed strip for me since I learned some unpleasant news about a friend that is uh…kinda up this aisle. And surprise surprise, it had not been reported… so yeah. Lots of inner thoughts.
This comic gets better by the day