also you can support people AND be civil to people you didn’t know were your SO’s self-declared arch-nemeses who even the arch-nemeses didn’t realize they were arch-nemeses
Are you trying to say “for me, it was” followed by the third day of the week?
Alternatively, are you trying to say that a person is so benumbed to committing atrocities that they’re no more memorable to him than his Tuesday pilates class?
Yes, I am very much trying to say that. Apparently, this joke has been used so often here that it’s now censored. Being fairly new to the comment section, I did not know that.
Lol, just reading how out of control the censoring here has gotten has brightened up my whole day. BTW, can anybody tell me what day of the week D-Day of WWII was?
I alway found that reference dosnt even work though sal might not remember Amber but I highly doubt that for sal it was just a Thursday, or whatever other day of the week. To this day sal dosnt take off her gloves that hide the scar from when Amber stabbed her hand. Also sal not remembering Amber seem almost legitimate Amber wasn’t the person she took hostage and then when Amber was taking an active roll sal’s dealing with pain of stab wound and all so yeah rant rant rant reference dosnt even work because reason that I’m being way to anal about
His comment was deleted. I have to say the mods seem a bit trigger-happy here. I have to say I find this disconcerting. While his comment was insulting, I have thicker skin that this and don’t feel it was necessary to delete it. I say, if people want to show the world how close-minded and mean they are, let them make fools of themselves. Then again, it’s not my website, so…
He draws the line early and often, because if people casually make that kind of remark to something like this, they’re likely to cause more shit later on during a harder to moderate time. And this comic doesn’t shy away from harder to moderate topics. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t make life easier on himself. The important part is what he’s here to say, and what we as a community take from it. Comments help, if they’re positive and relevant. Not so much when they cross the line to no longer contributing.
Can’t say I’m a fan of that approach. It might make the comment section into a more comfortable space for some, but it comes at a cost. As you said, the comic tackles a lot of sensitive topics, and that means the comments will to. Often, there’s a thin line between a comment that’s purposely offensive and one that’s just lacking in tact, and I don’t feel the second type needs to be suppressed. In fact, it can often be a crucial part of conversations. Not only can it be hard to draw the line, but if the delete button is hit to often, it can dissuade users from even addressing sensitive topics at all. When the rules aren’t clear and you can’t tell what will get your comment deleted, everyone starts walking on eggshells, and that’s ultimately detrimental to the conversation.
On the other hand, I understand that a website is in fact not a public space, but a private property that we’re invited to. Willis is hosting our comments on his website, and if he doesn’t want to host certain comments, that’s his prerogative. It’s just not how I’d personally do it.
And I’ll drop the first couple rules in the FAQ linked at the top, too:
1) Be nice to other people. You don’t have to agree with them, but don’t call them morons. Thankfully, this happens very very rarely because this isn’t YouTube, but I think I should establish this as a ground rule, regardless. A good rule of thumb is that comments should be about the comic, not the other comment makers. This doesn’t mean at all that interacting with other folks and having fun is off-limits, but if you wanna start a dissertation about whether or not other specific folks are awful, stick it on Tumblr. If your post starts using words like “idiot” or “dumbass” or similar directed at other specific people in the comments, you’ve gone too far, and I’ll probably either erase that part of your post or the whole thing. Sarcasm is often fine, but, you know, just don’t be overtly hostile.
2) Please don’t proselytize in the comments. To this you may respond, “But you get to preach on your website!” To which I nod and say, yes, you’ve figured it out.
I think Rule 1 covers your concerns. Lacking in tact doesn’t really matter when it’s completely irrelevant to the comic, and this is the comic comments. Make it about the comic, and not about the commenters, and you’re fine. And that’s clearly laid out, so no real eggshell problems, either.
And yes, Willis’s website, all praise and/or damn Willis.
I am familiar with the FAQ, but those rules are still vague. They basically boil down to Willis deleting comments whenever he feels they’re offensive, based on very subjective criteria. Again, not protesting, it’s his website, but I do question the wisdom in deleting comments when people haven’t specifically asked for them to be deleted. When people have no idea when or why censorship strikes, they can feel it’s not worth even addressing sensitive topics.
I get where it would be an aggravating approach to forum moderation if this were an open forum. But it is not really “open”, it is in Willis’ “place of business” so to speak and directly attached to his work so it is understandable to me that he gets to make the rules as he sees fit. Most of the webcomics I read don’t have any direct comment spaces in the first place for several reasons but I am sure moderating is a big one.
As for the autocensoring, this comic gets hundreds of comments daily in a very short span of time after a comic goes live. That added to the fact that there is one moderater, who is the content creator as well, and he has twinfants at home, turns the heavyhanded use of autocensoring into a bit of necessary evil in my book.
2) Please don’t proselytize in the comments. To this you may respond, “But you get to preach on your website!” To which I nod and say, yes, you’ve figured it out.
I think the only time he starts deleting stuff is when people start posting things like “Sick burn on Carla, Mary!”, or “Jonathan has some very good points on how Joyce should act.”, etc etc. You know, hurtful, troll comments.
It was Tuesday.
(Sorry about that random blank comment. I hit post without filling
In my email, and didn’t realise my comment also had to be re-entered
Well, but it’s only because Sal’s gotten to him that he’d ever suggest such a thing, so it’s really all Sal’s fault. Who but her arch-nemesis would ever suggest Amazi-Girl retire? And why? What’s her sinister plan?
More seriously, Danny’s still not actually getting it. She can’t just stop being Amazi-Girl. AG is her coping mechanism. Amber can’t function without her. That’s obviously bad and she needs to develop better ways to cope – and to reintegrate the two halves, but just suppressing AG isn’t an option.
Three meals a day eating cereal?
Hello Dina, we seem to share the same dietary habit.
With or without marshmallows?
No raisins are an abomination, I agree fully with you on that.
Ran out of milk. Apple juice? Why not?
Definitely! Amazi-girl is legitimately scaring me and is going down a path where she has a possibility of becoming the type of vigilante we sadly get too much in the real world.
Danny, while a doofus with a lot to learn, at least has just shown the willingness to try.
There’s a reason we get that kind of vigilante in the real world pretty much every fucking time, and while DID might not be part of it normally, the path Amazi-girl is taking pretty much is it.
also a bunch of us have already gotten through our wild-oat-sowing, party-all-nighting phases where stability and even boringness looks hot by comparison
If we’re going on a scale from 0% to 100% of knowing/seeing EVERYTHING, I would say that 50% is significantly higher than any individual in-universe human being.
That said, it would in many ways suck if the half of everything that you know/see were the half of the universe that does not include our galaxy. Cool in the abstract, but pretty low in practical applications.
Huh. I didn’t expect the very first post here to be Danny hating. Honestly he is doing the right thing and not when it is easy to do but when it is really hard. What, no credit for that?
No one gives credit to the people who try to disarm timebombs for doing so, but they are happy to criticize and blame when they fail at their attempt and something blows up.
Hmmm… I guess it depends on what you’re looking for.
Want a libido you have to compete to keep up with that is up for all manner of weird experimentation like 69’ing off rappelling gear outside of dorm windows in the middle of the night out in the open, but comes with an overloaded side of undiagnosed, untreated, REFINED mental and emotional problems? Sure. AmaziGirl is your prime option…. Nevermind she’s the ‘crazy’ that the whole “Don’t stick your dick in crazy” phrase was created for. She’s not just going to flip over a table or beat the shit out of a violent abuser who deserves it. Not anymore, anyway.
Want a genuinely caring, fairly normal, intelligent, safe, and considerate personality that has the character flaws of being oblivious, a pushover, and screwing up royally on accident? Danny would be the better option. He might latch on like a puppy and let himself get browbeaten by parents that judge him for the ‘quality’ of girl he chooses to date but otherwise consider him a fuckup, but at least you don’t have to worry about him breaking a table leg off and beating you to death with it because you’re associating with someone he doesn’t like.
Of the two, I would choose Danny, because I guess crazy can be ‘fun’ in the short term, but I value not having to fear getting stabbed in my sleep.
Yeah, but I’m pretty sure that agenda doesn’t include “abuse victims are dangerous monsters who can’t be trusted in relationships and probably needed to be locked up”, so I suspect that somehow Amber is actually going to recover from this. Probably before getting much worse than she is now.
Not every character is a synecdoche of their “status”. Sarah doesn’t represent all black people, Ethan doesn’t represent all gay men, Amber shouldn’t be treated as a moral example of trauma victims.
Even if she doesn’t recover, she’s an individual. Extracting a meaning for all victims doesn’t make sense.
No, it doesn’t. Except when it does.
Regardless, I’m sure Willis doesn’t intend that meaning. And I really doubt Willis is going to take that path.
Anymore than he made Becky into a liar making up stories about her caring and concerned father – which was an actual theory posted here by some commenter. Which also wouldn’t have been a representation of all lesbians. Except if it was.
Because Willis does have an agenda. Which is fine by me. I largely agree with his agenda. But it does mean that he’s making larger points than just individual characters.
To bolster your point, all one has to do is look at the comments. While each character may not necessarily or perfectly represent any group they’re a part of, nor be meant to, the conversations here are absolutely representative of how people regard similar individuals, or individuals in similar situations, outside the comic.
Willis doesn’t have to have a message or agenda in his comic per se, but can achieve his goals by directing the conversation through what topics he covers, which characters he uses, and how he frames the situations, as well as comment moderation. I generally agree with his apparent goals, but sometimes this community seems to forget that people who can relate with characters in the story are also reading and can relate comments about characters and context to themselves and their own. Particularly here with Amber, it’s not always pleasant.
That’s what I’m getting out. When reality says, “No, what you’re doing is wrong” and she’s forced to go is when my icky feelings about Amber will go away. I was a lot like her solving my abuse (not to the point of maksed herosim, but I had a LOT of anger I took out on people i percived slighted me or my friends.) and it wasnt until i got the shit beat out of me that I got to therapy. Everyone has different “rock bottoms”. I assure you that therapy wouldnt have worked for me before that event, since I thought I was invincible.
You see a lack of harshness in her life? Like her encounter with her father maybe? Or nearly dying last week? More pain will just confirm her current course.
Losing Danny will lead to her doubling down not changing.
ah, I think I should have been clearer. To preface, I made a comment a few above yours. “That’s what I’m getting out. When reality says, “No, what you’re doing is wrong” and she’s forced to go is when my icky feelings about Amber will go away. I was a lot like her solving my abuse (not to the point of maksed herosim, but I had a LOT of anger I took out on people i percived slighted me or my friends.) and it wasnt until i got the shit beat out of me that I got to therapy. Everyone has different “rock bottoms”. I assure you that therapy wouldnt have worked for me before that event, since I thought I was invincible.”
By “Harsh Reality” I mean that she gets in trouble for what she’s been doing. Police, the hospital, and accident- any catastrophic event that gets her forced to come face to face with her unhealthy coping mechanisms and how they affect other people. Amber isn’t the type to go into therapy alone, so I hope that a responsible and yet authorative adullt puts a stop to this. Like.. I know this is a comic and she’ll probably come to that conclusion herself after she like, gets her pop in jail or something but I just hope this isn’t going to be a permanent facet of Amber.
She needs stability and security if she’s going to recover. Her problem is harsh, traumatic events and abuse, not a lack of them and you don’t let go of coping mechanisms when you’re still being bombarded or feel lost and alone.
If Amazi-Girl goes after Sal, a lot of people on campus going “OH MAN AMAZI-GIRL’S SO COOL AND IT’S IMPORTANT SHE EXISTS” would quickly go “OH SHIT SHE’S A DANGEROUS BASTARD WHY DID NOBODY STOP HER?” and I will laugh like a drunk Skeletor
I really hope you’re right, because Amazi-girl has a lot of currency among the students, but Sal is just a random black girl, and I know what I expect (Although randoms in DoA are mercifully not horrible compared to randoms in the real world)
Amazi-Girl has been stalking from the rooftops for hours. Sal walks out of another building, and doesn’t hold the door for someone following a few steps behind her. Truth and Justice can finally be served.
Dunno if she’ll lose the fight, but I’m sure she wants to go find one now. The question will be, in her current state, is she actually going to find a villain by anybody else’s perspective?
Ehhhh, in real terms, no. She’s mad right now. She reserves the right to say later “holy shit I was wrong”.
Realtalk, the only time ‘over’ was actually ‘over’ so far was Joyce/Ethan. And that was doooooooooooooomed unless Joyce discovered she was anti-joyce (Is that gender-swapped Joyce? gender-swapped Joyce, at any rate.)
Yeah, they might be over. But there’s really no reason to be this quick to be sure.
If it isn’t a final breakup I really hope Danny doesn’t learn the wrong lesson here. Being “not-buckling” Danny is a healthy development for him, but if he thinks that will cause Amber to dump him again in the future he could revert to Doormat Danny.
I think Danny knows he’s right, with the way he talks about how he loves buckling. He would much rather be told he’s wrong and that Amber is definitely completely healthy, but he knows that’s not the case, and he needs to push it.
Yeah and if you looked at from the perspective of what is the single thing we could do that would most hurt and further screw up this person we both care about – that would also be Danny and Ethan hooking up.
Alright, maybe Danny and Sal hooking up, but it’s a close call.
I honestly can’t see either of them going for it. At least not right away. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen. It’s been teased enough and maybe Willis can pull it off and make it seem natural, but I’m not convinced.
YES. A Danny-Meat Sandwhich with Ethan on one end and Sal on the other. On Ambers bed would be the most horrible but fairly unrealistic option, so lets say Amazi-girl goes stalking and see’s something she really doesn’t want to.
Ethan is a gay man who doesn’t really act on that, who will suddenly have a guy who’s single and interested at his disposal. He won’t be thinking with his brain or his conscience.
AG is Amber. She tries to make them into separate entities, but at the end of the day, Amber is still responsible for her actions, and therefore is the one who intercoursed up.
For once, he didn’t fuck up. He just thinks he did because he’s so used to pulling a Danny her leaving upset and dumping him, he assumes it’s a Danny situation.
Yeah, that’s one of the really sad parts of this. He didn’t fuck up. He handled it about as well as he could. But since he put himself out of his comfort zone and tried something he usually wouldn’t and it went bad, he’ll probably interpret this as proof that he only has value as a doormat.
And if that’s where things go, fudge Amazi-girl for adding more jet fuel to that particular fire.
The fucking up part of this is on Amber. Given all of the shitty options for this shitty situation, I think Danny said the right thing this strip, and it’s Amber who is Ambering it up. (Ambing?)
Hmm…that was a couple weeks ago, so, unless she hurt him a lot worse than it sounded (he was able to make a false report about it, and all), not likely.
I could imagine her going after Sal for ‘ruining Amber’s relationship with Danny’, this time completely unprovoked.
There was a preview panel of Dorothy with Amazi-girl… I’m guessing she might stumble upon it, and that’s when her hero worship will start to crumble as well.
She had an internal script. He could either join her delusions or she could do what she did, interpreting each attempt to reach out and reason as a personal attack.
And I’m most worried about what this means in the future when the PTSD fades a little in intensity.
This outcome was inevitable unless he played along with her internal narrative, maybe by saying he was gathering information on Sal for her or something like that. For Amber to cope with her PTSD, Amazi-Girl must exist. For Amazi-Girl to exist, Sal must be pure evil.
I will repeat what I said yesterday, in case you missed it. Please do not use the word “crazy” to describe the mentally ill. It has a really bad history of being used against us, as a way to ridicule us. Some in the mentally ill community consider it a taboo word entirely. But all I am asking is that you don’t use it to describe people with mental illnesses.
It would be one thing if you were making some sort of joke with a good message. But you’re just making fun of her for having a mental illness. Please stop.
…and in 20yrs I’m sure “mentally ill” will be the new “crazy”, because no matter what you call it, stigma exists and referring to people as ‘crazy’ or ‘mentally ill’ or whichever term we decide is best for it will still be used as ridicule. I’m sure we’ll have a new non-taboo phrase by then, though, so we can continue building the vocab count of English slang. Just as ‘stupid’, ‘idiot’, and ‘moron’ used to be the medical terms until we started this same cycle with them. Now, people still use those words and we have new medical terms…which are also being adopted by everyone else.
OR we could use words to refer to the things they mean, and look at what people are *actually* saying to figure out if they’re being jerkholes or not. In this case, the person simply stated that Amber is crazy. How is that ‘making fun of her for having a mental illness’? It’s stating that she DOES have one, or at least that she acts like someone who is mentally ill. The only way that’s ‘making fun’ of her is if you start with the premise that mental illness is a Bad Thing, and saying she has one is an insult…in which case, the negative context is coming from you.
Because mentally ill is descriptive, crazy is a slur. You’re right, you could use actual descriptive words. And descriptive words here include “shitty coping mechanisms for trauma,” “violent,” and “deeply in need of help.” “Crazy” not only is a slur, it doesn’t clearly communicate any of that.
Oh hey, a prescient person who isn’t too busy bilking vegas and/or stockbrokers.
In seriousness, maybe. But you know, that’s 20 years from now. Right here, right now, crazy is a slur. If you aren’t taking it back personally, stay the fuck away from it.
Danny has clearly been Sancho Panza, along for the ride. Dulcinea… probably justice itself, which she thinks she serves through her actions, but which is entirely unrelated both to her motives and to what she actually accomplishes through her vigilante activities.
Who would she be trying to save from danger. but isn’t in any actual danger? Well, if Blaine is out of the picture, is it possible AmaziGirl is trying to save Amber, who thus doesn’t need it anymore, at least the kind of help that AmaziGirl can give?
Her track record’s a lot better than Blaine’s so far.
But that’s the problem with bullying and toxic environments; it’s way too easy to internalize abusive behaviors as a coping mechanism, and find yourself exhibiting the same behavior in the future when you’re in need of an outlet. 🙁
Danny you really haft to read the mood and realize when there is shit going on, how can you not tell if there is obvious beef going on between Amber and Sal.
He probably did pick up on that there was some kind of something between them, but I don’t think it took precedence compared to the somewhat suicidal sounding statement that someone saving your life was one of the worst things they’ve ever done to you. They didn’t even have time to get to that before Amber flipped her shit and peaced out. (Nor did she ever say who Sal was or what she was supposed to have done)
I don’t think he expected the conversation to end so abruptly and finally before he got a chance to get back around to that. Her not being happy her life was saved and saying the day was still young led him to address what he thought was more pressing. Remember, this is out of the blue, and he is not a mental health professional or anything. He’s flustered and shocked that what Sal said actually happened.
If you read back, this is the first time she’s actually confronted him about Sal in any way. The other times, Amber/Amazigirl was either already upset about something and Danny thought it was *him* she was reacting to, Danny didn’t see her approaching, or Danny just plain wasn’t there (as with the laundry and car chase incidents). There really wasn’t much info that would cause a sane person in Danny’s position to jump to the conclusion that “Amber doesn’t like my friend Sal for some strange reason”.
He’s not buckling! He’s doing the exact opposite! Look at how- oh, Danny is self-aware enough to realize that he loves to back down, and that listening to Amber would be just that. Nice! Let’s hope he doesn’t ruin his awesome streak by taking his frustrations with Amber out on Sal.
Yeah, Ethan and Danny may happen, but for it to not go down in flames, Danny will need to spend at least a little time not in a relationship so he can start building a him that is not just about sacrificing his self to support someone more accomplished, Ethan and Danny will need some time in open communication about their feelings, and they’d both need time to stop just worrying about Amber all the time or feeling like they’d be doing her a wrong.
…This hits really close to home. I had a friend of eight years do this to me several times, only to guilt trip me every time I actually stood up for my case and didn’t overflow with 100% sympathy for her situation and only hers.
That sounds kinda like it might be a minor-to-moderate case of emotional abuse. It’s a real thing.
“After listening for almost twenty-five years to the stories my patients tell me about sociopaths who have invaded and injured their lives, when I am asked, “How can I tell whom not to trust?” the answer I give usually surprises people. The natural expectation is that I will describe some sinister-sounding detail of behavior or snippet of body language or threatening use of language that is the subtle giveaway. Instead, I take people aback by assuring them that the tip-off is none of these things, for none of these things is reliably present. Rather, the best clue is, of all things, the pity play. The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness. It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.”
― Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door
Danny’s right, he’s not buckling, except it’s Amber he’s not buckling too. He’s standing up for himself, and I’m really glad to see that. Even if it doesn’t give Amber the wake-up call she needs right at this moment, it’s important for Danny to not back down on this one.
I disagree on this point.
He was clearly not decided on what he was going to do until Amber made out that Sal saving her life was this horrible thing. Heck, he was pretty clearly signalling to Sal that he wasn’t just going to take her word for it right before Amber showed up and went ballistic.
He’s not confronting Amber about this because someone pushed him into this. He’s doing this because he saw that Sal had a point that he agreed with, and that he felt he had to do this because he cares about Amber.
It is unfortunate that often agreement, or even simply changing ones mind is conflated with submission. Let us not connect the two in this case where it seems not to have happened.
Talked to Sal, and had Sal tell him that… I don’t know, that Amazi-Girl is awful or something? He talked to her archnemesis and that’s automatically corrupted him and he’s too weak-willed to fight off Sal’s mind control?
I imagine she has on some subconscious level. But she can’t or won’t face it. Because she can’t let Amazi-girl fail. Except that in this case, she has to crumble before she can heal again.
He told her to take a break from being Amazi-Girl, which, to Amber, feels like kicking her only crutch out from under her. (The crutch is made of rotted wood, but Amber doesn’t know that.)
Or, rather, he suggested that she might consider it. He didn’t even tell her to, but it makes sad sense that she jumped to the most threatening possible conclusion. Amazi-Girl has never been good at spotting nuances, and the black-and-white thinking is super-extra strong today.
What everyone else has said already, but keep in mind that this is an overly black-and-white pseudo-version of reality that Amber/AG has created in order to be able to cope. Of course it won’t reflect actual reality at all.
How she’s prolly interpreting it to justify her anger and her feeling of moral righteousness:
Sal, my arch-nemesis who saved my life just to get in my head and get me to doubt my mission, then proceeded to seek out my man, the person who could have saved the broken Amber I am protecting, in order to poison his mind with trickery and lies.
And my boyfriend, being an idiot who can’t even follow simple instruction in knowing what is so obvious to me, fell for her poisoned words, buckling to her sorcerous ways in order to turn traitor on me and betray Amber and seek to destroy the paragon of justice that protects her.
Because of this betrayal, and not because his good points struck a nerve (because that would not be something that a paragon of justice who is above emotions would experience), it is necessary for me to let him go before he betrays me and her further and allows the nefarious Sal to be uncountered and unstopped.
The mission must survive, no matter what.
Cause, let’s be frank, in AG’s world, she’s never wrong or mistaken and she’s never inconsistent or erratic. And someone failing to see her side has chosen to be her enemy. And that here is starting to pull away from reality station before all the passengers have gotten off.
Its kind of ironic, that Amazi-Girl fights anyone she sees as breaking the rules. But she uses violence and vigilante justice which.. Is kinda illegal and hypocritical, when one thinks about it.
He sided against her, with the person she sees as her enemy, and tried to get her to stop being Amazi-Girl. And she mistakenly thinks she needs Amazi-Girl more than she needs Danny or anyone else who cares for her.
She’s wrong to react this way. But he did do pretty much what she thinks he did. She’s just wrong about it being a bad thing.
I have been the biggest champion for Amazi-girl. And I still basically support her superheroism (except in cases where she is triggered). But she does need to stop switching to Amazi-girl to avoid dealing with her problems. And the only way to do that is to stop being Amazi-girl altogether for a while.
She needs to commit to not using her, so she can learn to cope with her issues. As I’ve said before, my hope is that we can wind up with an Amazi-girl who can do the good AG did without having all the drawbacks. But that can only happen if Amber figures it out.
Fortunately, a comic preview gives me hope on that front.
I don’t think that’s right. She needs to stop using AG to avoid dealing with her problems, but she can’t just stop cold. She doesn’t have alternate coping strategies. And from what little I understand, repressing alters isn’t a healthy approach at the best of times.
Basically, she needs therapy and should be a long term gradual project.
I do think she might be better off actually stopping the casual, heroic use of Amazi-Girl, even if she keeps her as a coping mechanism for the moment. I think that’s feeding into the whole “Amazi-Girl is the best, Amber is pathetic” thing she’s got going. I get the feeling Amazi-girl has been out and open far more on campus than before and that’s led to her being much stronger as a persona than she was.
In the short run, I think she actually needs to find a way to confront Sal and somehow come to terms with her, since that’s her current trigger. I don’t know how that’s going to happen, but it seems to be where the story’s heading. Unless it really is just “Amber is crazy and bad”, but I don’t think that’s it.
In the long run, I would like to see a more integrated Amazi-Girl and I think we’re likely to go there, rather than have a healthy Amber without her. If for no other reason than to let Willis draw action scenes.:)
Danny’s not wrong, this isn’t buckling. But this is a breakup. What is he supposed to do? Insist they’re still together? He’s got no right to her business now.
It’s over. It’s just over. Very interesting conundrum, although simply wrought.
He could report her vigilantism to the police. There probably won’t be enough proof unless he has some photos for an arrest or forced therapy, but I’m sure they’d love a lead on the person who could have easily caused a massive pileup
I wonder if her Mom ever had a clue that anything was wrong with Amber. From what little we’ve seen, Ethan has been more of a parent to Amber than either of her real parents.
Her mom managed to extract her from an abusive environment apparently entirely on her own and has raised her solo ever since I’d say she’s done the best she could be expected to given the situation.
Recover, emotionally, mourn what they had. Try and resist the urge to go running back to her in full apology and willing to throw away all his dignity for just a little more time.
Plus, in a comic-book theoretical sense, it was AmaziGirl that did the breaking up, not Amber. So if he can come by later when Amber is dominant, maybe he can…something? I’m tired, and can’t come up with a coherent plan to help improve Amber’s state of mind.
I was thinking ‘you broke up with her, you don’t have to avoid all girls’ or ‘… you didn’t stop being -my- friend’ as the implication if she actually considered that. But originally I wanted it to match the ‘you’re dating amazigirl’ fight in that perfect girl.
There’s sufficient bleed between the alters where I don’t think he can date Amber now. Be friends, maybe. And if he’s able to help Amber not be AmaizGirl, or redirect the Alter to something positive, maybe, if it’s good for both of them,restart the relationship.
Well, just because she doesn’t want to be a couple anymore doesn’t mean Dan has to automatically cut all his ties to her. He obviously is still going to care about her even if SHE doesn’t even care about herself, and he’s going to try to help her regardless of if it leads to un-breaking-up.
If everyone just went away when a mentally unstable person said “go away” the suicide rate would be SO much higher than it is today.
Is “sympathetic frustration” a thing? Because that’s what I’m feeling right now. (Or is it frustrated sympathy?)
Like, Amber, I feel for you loads, I know a lot of this comes from Blaine’s abuse (and here I would like to reiterate yesterday’s sentiment of FUCK BLAINE) and the lasting emotional scars, but god fucking damn it do you have a messed up view on everything and you are doing some serious hurt to yourself and others.
🙁 does he even realize he wasn’t talking to amber just now? at all? and what of amber once she comes around? will she realize how destructive amazi-girl can be? and why do i keep reading these right before bed and then going to sleep sad??
as far as I can tell, as Solenoid said, he thinks it’s just a secret identity, a “playing-pretend,” not an actual *alter* as with MPD (for lack of a better diagnosis/term).
He doesn’t realize the extent of the psychology in Amber/AG AT ALL.
I wonder if this is actually all Blaine’s abuse. Is it possibly Amber and she both have a mental illness? One which leads to dramatic mood swings they have no control over? Undiagnosed medical condition could explain a lot–and ironically make Blaine more sympathetic perhaps. Imagine if he got himself treatment in the hospital.
Yes. This is very much because of the shape and frequency of Blaine’s abuse. She didn’t just snap up this “my way or the highway” paranoid delusional from the ether, she was carefully taught that this is how couples fight, that this is normal behavior, and that showing weakness and empathy and seeing the other’s viewpoint is a great way to be emotionally ripped apart again.
Blaine is the sick toxin that is at the heart of this whole tragedy and it reveals the scars that abusive parents leave on their kids even long after their child has finally escaped.
That all being said, based on what others have confirmed for me, she’s still engaging in abusive behaviors against Danny and the fact that we know the origin of them and how little Amber can stop them, doesn’t make those behaviors any less painful or harmful to have happened to Danny here today.
Yes, Cerberus is right on target here with the results of abusive parents. I never had a situation like younger Amber’s confrontation with Sal, but I lived with my abusive mother until eighteen and am still unfortunately in contact with her. I have a lot of problems and I’ve found so much of it traces back to my mother. I get so angry and upset with Amber, because even though I sympathize with her situation so much, I wish she would just seek help.
And if Blaine had some problems of his own, I wouldn’t find him particularly more sympathetic. Maybe that’s also because of my own situation, my mother had a lot of her plate that shaped her to be that awful parent she was, but after all those years with her like that and her showing no remorse, I have no sympathy for it. And it doesn’t excuse it either way. Just the same that Amber’s problems don’t excuse how she’s mistreated Danny.
I agree. I grew up in an abusive home and was the family scapegoat. I decided as a young child that I would never hurt anyone the way I was hurt. I was also healthy enough to see that what my parents were doing was just goddamn wrong. I knew I need a shitload of help and I made sure I got it.
Abusers act just like Blaine and Amber, self righteous, never wrong, punitive, and vindictive. They will always try to place blame on somebody else. They don’t see any reason to get help because they are very skilled on dumping their shame on other people, especially any children in the family.
What gets me is that people are still sympathizing with Amber even though she is abusing Danny, and in fact, some expect Danny should have defused the situation “by asking the right questions.” Let me ask those of you who felt Danny could have gotten Amber to stop “by being more situationally aware,” how would you feel if Amber was abusing a child? Would you still feel sympathetic and understanding of her behavior? Would you blame the child for instigating the abuse and not being able to defuse the situation.
As much as I detest Blaine, he learned those behaviors as a kid also. And like most abused people, he passed them on. If Amber continues on her way, she will harden into someone just like Blaine.
I’ve been kind of assuming for a while that both Amber and Blaine share some occasionally-hereditary mental disorder. BPD could fit, perhaps? Or something entirely diffrent, idunno. I’m more of a diagnose-e than a diagnose-r, tbh.
That being said an undiagnosed mental disorder would not free either of them from accountability. Having an explanation is not the same as having an excuse. No matter what their respecive brain-chemistries and histories are like Blaine caused a huge amount of damage to Amber and that’s still on him. Similarly the current situation is on Amber.
Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to mark the death of the “Danny, Stop Danning It Up” meme. For lo, what hath transpired here was not in any way, shape or form the fault of Danny. Nay, it falleth all on Amber. Let us lay the “Danning It Up” meme to its eternal rest, and never mention it again. Amen.
No idea. All I can is that he a href=”https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/tumblr_o2whjx7zro1v6pg78o1_1280.jpg?quality=80&w=635 ” rel=”nofollow”>caught them all.
He can’t help her. Basically her friends are kids and are totally un-equipped to help her with her abuse issues/ Amber is seriously going to have to realize she is in trouble and get help on her own. It probably will take something awful to make her hit bottom and be willing to change.
Also, man… I ship Danny and Ethan but a lot of the comments here calling for him to immediately go hook up with him come across as really kind of gross and fetishistic.
It wouldn’t be good for either of them at this point.
You’re right. Even if it wasn’t gross or fetishistic (it is) Danny hasn’t spent any of his young adult life as a single guy. He needs some time to develop and grow as an individual before getting involved in another relationship.
Also, it is very ironic that you are advocating taking a break from dating while your avatar is the thirstiest character in the entire comic. I am chuckling now 🙂
maybe. i would have wanted him to stay with Amber before this, but this (well, more the comments that explained why this was so abusive) is making me think that it would be better for him to end the relationship and let other people help her.
Honestly, he is way too defined by other people. He latches onto romantic ideals of being the good supportive bae, first with Dorothy, then with Amber. I think he needs to find some platonic friends and spend some time figuring out who he really is. Maybe he could be a psychologist?
Honestly, I came into this post ready to say that he should get together with Ethan eventually. But as I wrote, I realized what would be best for him would be taking a break from the dating scene altogether to figure out his identity.
I almost wrote a footnote after my *now kiss* wordplay type comment because of this exact sentiment :/
Their meet-cute was just the meet-cutey-est. Write Danny/Ethan anywhere on the gender/sexuality spectrum, what makes me go absolutely squee over their relationship is the slow burn of what’s going on in their heads/hearts rather than their pants. People who are good, who have bad stuff happen to them, who would be good for each other, getting together when it’s good for both of them, is just my shyptonite. I wouldn’t say it’s good for them now, but it’s fun to consider the possibilities in their future.
I like Danny and Amber together too fwiw, they have genuine chemistry, but the relationship is so unhealthy as it is now, with both cycling deeper into dysfunctional behaviors. Both deserve more health and happiness than they may be able to give to each other at this time in their lives.
TL;DR Not trying to fetishize, just tentatively excited for future possibilities? Because we haven’t been slapped yet with the reality that Danny/Ethan are both such sweeties that they would likely refrain from being together, to keep Amber from completely shattering.
The thing is that I’m not sure Ethan is attracted to Danny at all – he had a few flustered moments on their comic book outing, but I think it was more of the awkwardness of him not being fully out yet rather than to do with Danny himself.
And Ethan seems to be pretty much oblivious to any of Danny’s affections ever since that day. I think any attraction right now is pretty one-sided.
Danny honestly does strike as the perfect dude for Ethan. They’re already friends, they have similar interests, and they’re both in relatively the same stage where they’re trying to get a grip on their sexuality.
I don’t think Ethan’s attracted to him right now, nor would he make a move on Danny without Amber’s approval, though.
It seems like it would be a good real relationship. I’m not sure it’s a good story relationship. I could be wrong of course, but I just don’t see it leading anywhere interesting.
The sheer lack of any potential drama from that pairing, outside of Amber being treated as an obstacle because she’s not on board with it / Danny and Ethan not wanting to step on her toes, is part of why I didn’t think it would happen.
Like I mentioned below, if it does happen I just really don’t want it to be like Ethan/Manny in Shortpacked, where it was just “I met this nice guy offscreen and we’re dating and in love and we never have any problems.” I get that that’s what Ethan wants in a relationship, but it makes for really boring reading.
Yeah, it’s been really awkward to read through the comments since we learned Danny was bi, because it was just an onslaught of “I can’t wait for Amber’s mental health to collapse so Danny can fuck the one other Queer dude in the entire universe.”
Which, I dunno, shipping’s fine and dandy and it’s not like this sequence didn’t also sour my opinion on Amber, but it was still cringy to go through whenever Danny appeared.
I kinda wonder what would happen if she stormed off to go vent to Ethan, and then if he (though questioning what happened) actually took Danny’s side. Like
“Well how was he supposed to know about what happened with Sal years ago?” or “Wait you almost died?? Maybe you should take a break from this…”
Question is how much Ethan knows about Amber’s rage issues. He’s certainly seen it before (in the cafeteria). We just don’t know if he’s savvy enough to deal with them at this point.
I really HOPE she goes to vent to Ethan – the way she has been keeping away from him doesn’t make it seem likely, and since she just broke up with the one person she usually could count on to be there for her… who is left for Amber to talk to?
Dina? Walky? Dorothy? …none of them know her nearly good enough to know just how bad her situation is and how desperately she needs help.
I’m kind of hoping for this to end with Sal taking down Amber, preferably in a way that causes people in DoA to vilify Amazigirl and call Sal a hero. Just cause a complete snap and forced therapy
Because fuck if we’re going to have a breakdown I want one that slaps reality into her so hard that she sees stars
Well a complete snap and forced therapy means something like involuntary confinement, which means she’s basically out of the comic indefinitely. Weeks/months of their time at least, which would be years of real time.
It also sets up the “abuse victims become monsters who need to be stopped by force” meme much harder than I think Willis will do.
She’s going to hit bottom, but pull herself out of it, with help and probably start getting therapy, but by her own choice. It’s got to be pretty soon too. She can’t go much farther without losing all reader sympathy.
Amber is going to hurt somebody (or herself) the first opportunity she gets. And it might just be Sal.
Danny did really well. I think he said the right things. She just doesn’t want to hear them. Not sure going to see Ethan this very minute is a great idea.
Anyone he goes to know just may be a target for Ambers rage.
So, uh, let’s see, that’s making her bad behavior and delusions into a wrong of “disloyalty” he’s committed, attacking him at weak points and gaslighting him about what he’s been doing (as he notes, he’s been doing the opposite of buckling on this and her demands were to buckle to her and that’s why she’s mad), using ultimatums and declaring things finished because he didn’t just shut up and follow her rules…
This feels like it’s abuse to me. Or at least aping its structure way too much for comfort.
And with this, she’s doubled down on delusion and her manufactured worldview, has convinced herself her “eternal nemesis” has cost her a cherished relationship who would have “save her” and has done her a great harm by saving her life, and has completely cut aside 1/2 of the remaining people trying to look out for her mental well-being and health.
All while pushing her alters further away from each other and continuing to poison the inflexibility of Amazi-girl.
I’ve often felt that she’s been making a lot of mistakes with her mental health, but at this point, she’s starting, or at least continuing down a much darker road than she’s ready for, where she becomes far more Blaine-like than she has ever wanted.
I’m of the mind Blaine and Toedad are different now. I think Blaine probably comes from a bad environment and may well have mental illness which needs to be treated (and has passed that down to his daughter). Toedad, I’m comfortable just thinking is a evil asshole.
I don’t think either of them are certifiable. People can be dicks without any help from their brain chemistry.
But if I did think one of them was mentally ill, it would have to be Toedad. Blaine is awful in a way that is scarily familiar, like an evil version of the dad that tries to help you grow up.
I can’t help but wonder.. Lets say Blaine did grow up in an abusive household, with a parent very much like himself now. Cycle of abuse, after all. People feel bad for and try to somewhat excuse Amber’s actions because she grew up in an abusive situation, but where is that line, to where she draws the same reactions as people have towards Blaine? I don’t want to see her reach it, but I’m afraid she’s going that direction.
In any case, she has the benefit of not being or having been responsible for a minor’s well-being. Unlike Blaine. Unlike Ross. Danny can walk off right now and never look back without anyone else needing to get involved. He won’t, of course, because his own quirks of personality (by which I mean, his treating relationships like the only lens he can see himself through) and the fact that this is Dumbing of Age, where dumb decisions are made. Nobody is truly stuck with Amber or Amazi-Girl, whichever of the two she’s being in a given moment.
Yeah, the fact that Blaine and Ross targeted their own children makes them extra-super evil with additional FUDGE YOU.
What Amber is doing here is bad and abusive, but she’s not up to Blaine level. If nothing else, she will never be able to hurt Danny as much as Blaine hurt her.
I am literally the worst person to draw this distinction as it may just be my own means of overly forgiving the instances of not okayness my ex did to me, but I feel the difference is in how Amber and Blaine go about their abuse.
Amber is consumed by it and does not choose it, it’s just the natural extension of her feeling trapped and lashing out at the person nearest while she’s triggered.
Blaine revels in it. He seeks out his victim after she has escaped from him and goes to elaborate ends to harm her more. He’s not someone who got carried away, he’s someone who has decided that this gets him what he wants (control) and is now addicted to that feeling and that’s a different and more dangerous sort of beast.
Though all that said, while Amber’s style of abuse may be more understandable and forgivable?, it’s still harmful to its target and leaves marks. And it can sometimes be harder to recognize and stuff because you can see how it’s not all the time and so you start to believe that if you can just not be in those extreme circumstances, maybe it’ll stop happening once and for all…
Yeah, sorry, prolly not the right one to be trying to sort all this out, but I think that’s the possibly thin and negligible difference between them as I see it.
But didn’t Amber revel in it too? She hunted down Sal and her friends and tried to pick that fight. Sal didn’t want to fight her, she just wanted to go about her own business in peace. I’m afraid she is getting addicted to that feeling of contol and righteousness. Plus, who says Blaine chooses it anymore than she? He could just be what she is on her way to becoming, like her now to the next degree, and was once just like her here. She is choosing Amazi-Girl after all, and the power trip it gives her.
A lot of it is also just that Blaine is older and far more set in his ways. Amber’s heading down a scary path, but she’s still young. She needs help, but she’s a lot more likely to be able to recover than Blaine is.
Lots of people are evil, and most of them have reasons. Blaine and Toedad were probably raised by people similar to them, and they were unable to break the cycle of abuse that they’re now perpetuating. Becky is doing some solid work to get away from what her dad does, but as of now Amber is falling into the same traps. To corroborate on what Cerb is saying above, Amber is abusing Danny in these strips. She gaslighted, gave ultimatums, undermined his confidence, the whole package. Let’s wait and hope for something to come along and help her realize what she’s becoming.
I feel like this is an incorrect use of the term gaslighting. Amber’s not trying to manipulate Danny, she’s just been making genuine statements of belief. Gaslighting indicates conscious manipulation, to my mind, at least, and to the origin of the term.
I don’t know if gaslighting has to be conscious, but that last barb seemed pretty deliberate. She knows he is afraid of being seen as a pushover and weak, so by playing off that fear she is manipulating him (or trying to) into feeling like this is all his fault? Or just manipulating him into feeling badly about himself.
Maybe, I dunno. I had a partner who did a lot of this style stuff to me when she was set off and feeling defensive and I haven’t been able to make heads or tails of whether or not that counted as gaslighting and that’s gotten me a bit scrambled on a lot of stuff, so who knows. I’m really not as confident about any of these calls as I am about other stuff and so I’m relying a lot on what others have confirmed or denied when I’ve asked them about it for whether or not I trust these inklings enough to share.
Danny there is no talking with words now, you must train in china to become the Iron Closed Hand so that you can defeat her in Living Combat. Then when you have her at your mercy spare her life and she will become your greatest ally.
And one day, he just started running. First, he ran to the end of the street, then he ran to the edge of town, then he ran to the edge of the sea. And then, he turned around and ran some more. People kept asking him why he was running. But some things don’t have a reason. Some things don’t need a reason. He just felt like running.
Dara has already linked to “Tainted Love” above, but i find it appropriate to cite (parts of) the lyrics here:
Sometimes I feel I’ve got to
Run away
I’ve got to
Get away
From the pain you drive into the heart of me
And the love we share
Seems to go nowhere
I’ve lost my light
For I toss and turn I can’t sleep at night
Once I ran to you (I ran)
Now I run from you
This tainted love you’ve given
I give you all a boy could give you
Take my tears and that’s not nearly all
Tainted love
(Ooh) Tainted love
I could get behind D/E/A in a poly relationship. Like, I have no idea how they’d get there as they’ve been written so far, but it’s interesting to think about. And produces d’awwws.
I would love to see Sal actually confronting Amber herself. Amber’s been mentally and physically running from Sal since the holdup. See what happens when she’s forced to see that Sal isn’t literally Satan, just a human being who made incredibly poor life choices like everyone else.
Worse than that. Sal can’t afford to fight Amber on campus. She’s got a record, and even if she’s not the aggressor, she’s a black girl with a criminal record fighting a white girl. Even her parents probably wouldn’t take her side, given her past.
Oh man, true… She would probably just try and walk away if it came to that, and who knows if Amber would let her. After all, she stabbed her once after she was already in handcuffs.
Clearly now Danny must become Amazi-Girl’s nemesis, in an attempt to make her confront herself and realize how wrong he is. And the best way will be for him to put on a cape and become a supervillain. Knocking down trash cans and the like.
Is it just me or is Danny’s dialogue in that last panel hard to parse? I don’t understand what he’s saying, what he’s trying to say, or if that’s at all connected to whatever he’s doing with his arm.
I think he’s saying that he usually buckles, i.e. goes along with other people’s opinions or demands, and that it’s unfair for Amber/AG to say he’s buckling now when what he’s actually doing is standing up to her because he’s concerned for her health and safety. Asserting that to her was hard and scary for him and he’s sad that the conversation didn’t go well, but he knows he did the right thing by voicing his concern.
He’s basically saying that he would normally buckle/give in because he doesn’t like dealing with conflict, and that Amber can tell he actually isn’t buckling right now because he’s willingly making himself unhappy.
So, to parse out his actual sentences: “This is the opposite of buckling! [You can tell because] I love buckling! [But] Look at how unhappy I am! [Clearly I can’t be buckling, because if I was buckling, I would be happy!]”
People yesterday were talking a lot about Sal and Amber having a lightsaber battle, but wouldn’t Danny be closer to Obi Wan in that situation? Sal barely knows who Amber is, Danny is the one who’s watching his friend fall to the dark side.
I really appreciate that this comic isn’t falling into the trope of “having dramatic/intense experiences together means a relationship is passionate and good.” There’s been a lot of sexy intensity between Danny and Amber/AG, but that doesn’t mean it was healthy or sustainable. It’s good to see that acknowledged.
Except it’ll be Amber in class, who didn’t have this argument, and will be perfectly amicable. Danny, however, will be confused. If only he could see the tags.
Nah. He knows exactly who he’s talking with here. She starts off by telling him straight out she’s not Amber. Now, he did call her Amber after this, but I’m betting this is because he’s seeing AG as not terribly healthy at the moment, so he isn’t playing along.
Except he and AG had the argument because Amber fled when she saw him and Sal being friendly. At best he’ll be dealing with an Amber who’s still upset over that. At worst, AG will come out again and he’ll have to deal with her.
In all fairness, what was Danny supposed to do? Amber hasn’t said one word to him about Sal, and he’s never seen how Amber reacts to Sal. Amber offered no explanations here, and while she’s certainly not obligated to tell Danny anything, she also doesn’t get any right to hold his lack of knowledge against him.
And really, when’s the right time to stop putting up with Amber’s increasingly strained fantasy in which she’s a crimefighter who’s always right and everyone she hates is a supervillain?
Well, she’s clearly upset. Maybe ask her what’s wrong first, if she needs to talk, instead of outright just jumping to “Hey, maybe give up your coping mechanism”.
As for when the right time is, maybe approach her about the topic at a time when she’s calm and collected? Discuss your concerns with her, rather than just jumping straight to “You should give it up”.
The context was Amber just having told him that Sal is someone who has hurt her deeply and – rather than investigate this – his very next words were “What if you maybe took a break from Amazigirl for a while?”.
If someone just came up to you, claiming to have really helped a friend of yours, and then said friend reacted to that person with revulsion, would you not be just slightly curious as to why?
But I think it was more “she says she saved your life” “that’s the second worst thing she’s done to me” meaning: hey, Sal told the truth, that horrible, scary situation actually happened, and you haven’t been yourself for a while now, and you don’t seem like you’re happy to be alive, that actually sounds kinda suicidal, that influenced him saying that.
Plus, he’s a college freshman, not a psychologist. Its seriously not his fault. Imagine his perspective as someone who doesn’t know her backstory. Plus, she’s always been calmer as Amber. I’d want to have this conversation with “Amber” if I were him.
He has known she hasn’t been ok for a while, but she hasn’t been telling him what’s wrong. He’s asked stuff like that before, and she just ran off. I just hate the thought of him.. anyone in his position.. having blame placed on them for someone else’s abusive reactions and clear loss of rational thought. A rational person would not have responded like that to his suggestion. Plus, I imagine all he can think about is what Sal told him and that it was actually true. That she almost DIED.
I don’t think anyone said this exactly yet, but: he has probably been thinking about asking her to step down from Amazigirl for a while ever since Sal told him she could have died. Suddenly it’s all in his face, and the parts he was actually considering came out before platitudes, then her ranting likely threw him off of any script into pure reacting to her words.
What’s any of that got to do with deciding that, in this specific moment, the appropriate response to psychological distress is “Hey, are you alright?” and not “I think you have a problem”?
I think I know what’s bothering me so much in your comments- although I am fully aware that it is not your intention, but all I see is ‘Danny should know how to placate someone who is abusing him, suddenly, in public! He didn’t, so really it’s his fault shit went down.’
And ‘well maybe they wouldn’t have [very abusive thing] if yu had/n’t [completely insignificant to their anger and very difficult in the moment thing]’ is rhetoric that I am so horribly used to.
Danny was minding his own business, Amber opened up accusatory over something Danny had no clue about. He opens up with a “hey, amber” and she’s already antagonistic. “Wrong” is all she says. So he notes her glasses and then she points a finger at Sal and says “what is she doing here”.
Already he is jumped into a conflict he can’t possibly know the face of and his reaction betrays this. He tries to de-escalate noting that Sal has a right to exist. She then immediately goes off on him about how he better not have talked to her which sounds paranoid and controlling. He tries to de-escalate and note how she has liked his honesty in the past. It’s a defusing of the situation into a joke.
She increases anger and targeting, yelling at him about something he couldn’t possibly know, repeatedly asking him “do you know who that is” in incresingly angry tone. He once again tries to de-escalate, making a joke about how they’ve already gone over Sal and how he met her thinking she was AG and trying to connect his gf to emotions that are calmer, because he’s been berated for something he couldn’t possibly know the shape of.
It’s only after that second angry repetition and threat where she’s full on glowering at him that he notes that she says she saved her life, which is factual and a really important thing to remind her of.
At this point, she’s escalated multiple times, Danny’s tried to placate multiple times and it’s only made her madder. He was already in a no win situation at this point and those really suck from personal experience and it can feel important to defend at least the shape of basic reality when that happens, because the attacks against you aren’t being bounded by what actually happened.
So he notes this, sadly, glancing away and Amber then escalates off the freaking rails by calling the saving of her life the second worst thing Sal has ever done to her, which is scary as fuck.
It is only after ALLLL that, that he brings up her taking a break.
This is not someone who was “hey, Sal has hurt me and I get really messed up feelings when I see you with her”. This is not a Danny who opened up with “hey, you know that alter that is your current sole coping strategy? Yeah, well fuck it, Sal told me it sucked”.
This was an Amazi-girl that came in swinging, inflexible, and created a no-win accusatory situation where she expected total compliance and Danny to be a frickin’ mind-reader and absorb a mess of abuse.
Danny handled that with a lot of grace and effort and attempts to defuse and only brought up this bit after she straight up said that being alive, having her life saved was an act of violence.
It’s also worth noting that this is the first confirmation of that for Danny by Amber. Amber didn’t tell him that she nearly died, but has earlier noted that AG cannot fail and that that is something she can less and less control. But here, he already got defensive when Sal noted that she saved her life and that she’s erratic and dangerous, but now Amazi-girl is confirming, yes, she nearly died, she views living as a wrong, and she’s erratic, dangerous, and a legitimate threat to him.
Him saying, hey, maybe this AG thing doesn’t have to be 24/7 (because he’s a college kid who doesn’t know fuck all about DID and she’s previously just described it as a fun thing that helps her feel strong) and maybe things are getting a bit serious and she can take a short break from this whole AG thing is him trying to reach out as best he can.
So yeah, tl;dr, I think you’re getting your order of events out of whack and are being rather unfair to what Danny actually just did.
I disagree. Of course it would be best if that happened, but he’s not a mind reader, he can’t pick a perfect moment, and as for this one, he did not exactly choose it.
As someone with several types of clinical causes of psychological distress (I don’t mean to speak for anyone else who falls in that category, I just mean to to give my context), I wouldn’t/don’t want platitudes or deflected questions if I’m having an episode. Even (especially) if I’m going to end up twisting words I would rather know exactly what is going on, what the new conflict is, and most of all, simply what the person interacting with me wants.
So even if this was really Danny’s choice of tumes and places and what comes up (which, as I said below, I don’t believe any of can be accounted to him), he didn’t pick some universal wrong move.
Dude, do you know how much this sounds like victim blaming? How much this is victim blaming? This is textbook abuse, and you’re reacting like a textbook justifier and enabler. “Well, if you’d just done [xyz] I wouldn’t have had to hit you.” Being mentally ill is no excuse for doing harm to others, and treating it that way is infantilizing to the person who has it. As someone who is mentally ill and who has been on both sides of abuse, I speak from experience. And the way you’re contorting to not blame her for any of what she’s doing right now is genuinely insulting to me as an abuse survivor and a reforming abuser.
Yes. She went from zero to this just from seeing Sal. And Danny was not the slightest bit curious why someone who claimed to have saved Amber’s life evoked such a reaction.
I really just don’t he has had TIME to get to any questions. Who knows, he will probably go ask Sal what was up with that. Or just be massively confused. Its very flustering when your loving girlfriend whose laundry you just so sweetly did comes over and starts screaming at you out of the absolute blue. Hell, its flustering when anyone is screaming at you and not letting you get a word in edgewise, let along your significant other out of nowhere.
Like, for us this has been several comic strips, over several days, allowing us to pick apart and analyze each strip. This has been literal SECONDS for him.
If he had time enough to decide now was the perfect moment to pop that suggestion, I think he’s had time to realize something isn’t right. This doesn’t require you to be terribly fast on your feet. All it requires is you to be able to hold a consistent topic in your head for more than ten seconds.
He hasn’t seen her til now since Sal told him about what happened and she just not only confirmed it but seemed suicidal about it/to have a death wish. Again, he isn’t her shrink. He’s (was) her boyfriend. Big difference. Its not fair to expect him to always know how to say the magic words to appease her, and there is NO good timing for the reality check she needs
The minute AG came out, calm Amber disappeared. The first thing she said was “Wrong!” And then she asked if Danny knew who Sal was, twice, in a very rude and demanding manner, escalating all the while. Don’t tell me that Danny is supposed to ask questions while he is being accused and verbally beaten up. It is NOT Danny’s job to fix Amber and I think he might have saved himself by realizing it.
I think if you want to be acknowledged as the emotionally mature party, you kinda have to be willing to be emotionally mature. Ignoring the emotional state of someone you care about is not really a good example of demonstrating that willingness. Showing some basic concern isn’t acceptance of an obligation to “fix” someone.
are you seriously implying that DANNY is the one being emotionally immature here? compared to amber “SHE TURNED YOU AGAINST ME” O’Mally??? come on dude, reaching to find a way to blame danny for amber blowing up at him is gross.
That argument also bothers me because I know from personal experience how shitty being stuck in those no-win scenarios are, where your partner has their narrative they are running with and anything you say only has value in how it will be picked apart to justify the negative emotions they are showing you.
Danny legitimately tried to be tactful and sincere, tried to defuse the scenario. Did everything right and she turned it all into accusations of disloyalty and attacking her and how dare he be standing next to a person and talking to her, couldn’t he read her mind and know how much of a PTSD trigger she is for her even though that’s literally never come up in the entire time they’ve dated.
But he was doomed from the beginning. So seeing him blamed for that is upsetting, because it’s what I’ve done to myself for a very long time surrounding the no-win situations I was in. Blaming myself for not finding some magical one-way out that didn’t have me compromising my mental health, that didn’t lead to me being blamed for some fictional slight against that partner.
Cause I’ve only now started to believe that maybe it really wasn’t on me to find a Shangri-la that didn’t exist and maybe it wasn’t on Danny to perform essentially a Police Negotiator’s role out of the freakin’ blue or be blamed for his partner’s abuse.
Standing up to Amber and going “woah hold on this seems unhealthy” is pretty damn emotionally mature. It takes balls to point out to someone they need to step back.
But Danny was blindsided by her rage. And he did try to talk to her, but she interrupted and just kept going. The other thing is that most college freshman don’t have any experience in handling people who have rage issues. Most adults don’t either. I feel that people are blaming the victim, who in this case is Danny.
Forcing your delusions upon another party who is clearly uncomfortable is not the picture of emotional maturity. Calmly making it through that conversation doesn’t make Danny incredibly mature, but it definitely puts him above her in this instance.
Fwip, dude (gender neutral), I’m glad you’ve been standing up for Amber throughout this, but don’t go so far as to impugn Danny. Danny hasn’t actually done anything wrong here.
He was very aware of her anger, and very much trying to help calm her down. But she was refusing to be calmed down. He tried joking. He tried the cold realization. He tried minimizing his request and being as unthreatening about it as possible.
Literally all of those things would have helped calm me down when I had my anger problem.
Funny how months ago I commented that Amber needed some tough love to force her into considering she might be fucking up magnificently. That didn’t fly too well for people back then but oh how does things change.
The thing is, when confronted with something she doesn’t agree with, Amber does the fight or flight routine, and she’s very good at both. There’s little to no chance she will listen as long as she can parkour her way out of a situation, or punch her way out. And if cornered she will go straight into fight mode.
At this point I’m not sure she would seek help on her own volition.
When she says “Amber needs Amazi-Girl a hell of a lot more than she needs you” who is talking? I thought is was Amazi-Girl, but why is she not saying “me” then?
Yup, I do that a bit, externally labeling the alters and describing them in third person. Though that’s usually because my given personality at any moment is usually just a gestalt and conversation of the alters most in power at that moment.
To note to Clayton, that doesn’t have to be bad…
But it’s definitely bad here the way Amber is doing it.
I’m reminded of the Incredible Hulk cartoon that was on in the 90’s where for the first season’s finale Banner starts to transform, and is telling Betty to stay back, that this Hulk was different, and may hurt her. Not as Strong, But not Simple, however, Morally Ambiguous.
Well… it’s near the best thing that could have happened for Danny I suppose. He’ll feel bad in the short terms but in the long term Danny you’re much better off.
Now Amber will attempt to be AmaziGirl near full time won’t she though. Uuuuugh.
Danny will wrack himself with guilt no matter what happens and Amber will put herself or someone who didn’t deserve it in the hospital won’t she?
While I disagree at the calls of romance- this is much too soon folks- he needs to be single for a good while I think and even then Danny/Ethan might not happen- but I do think Danny will perhaps go to Ethan /now/, totally freaked out… and realise Ethan doesn’t have a clue what to do either. They’re out of their depth. (Perhaps the fated Sal and Ethan meeting will also occur as a result?)
I think the last time Danny tried to talk to Ethan about how to understand Amber, they both kind of acknowledged they’re out of their depth to help her, but got distracted by sexy Transformers fanfics before either could elaborate. I might be remembering that wrong but I thought they both were already kind of starting to think that. It would be good to see that thread picked up.
Walky and Dorothy are pretty damn heterosexual. I am actively looking forward to their breakup, though, so I wonder what that’s about. Oh right, I like Dorothy and not so much Walky because he’s an eight year old in a man’s body. Dorothy/Joyce 4 Ever.
Hetero? yes
Compelling? Not so much
Once they started dating they basically became a married couple immediately. They’re the most uninteresting couple in the entire comic, and that’s including most of the parents.
It would be if that was ever addressed but Walky is allergic to feelings and Dorothy refuses to acknowledge that this doesn’t really look much like a fun fling because acknowledging that means acknowledging her plan has a flaw.
legitimately compelling
How do you measure this? I say it’s bullshit!
Also:
Sarah/Jacob (on hiatus, but may be revived)
Raidah/Jacob (exactly the reason why “only legitimately compelling” is bullshit)
Sal/Jason (who think it has ended, but are they not acting like a married couple?)
Roz/Joe (a lot of ??? on this one)
Amber’s mom/Joe’s dad (obviously there’s a history to this ship!)
Strange but I think there may be a few cracks forming in Amber because let’s face it speaking in the 3rd person is not something either of her personalities does about themselves normally and recently amazi-girl has seemed less like the place to creatively use anger that she used to be she has become more level headed I think we may have a 3rd Amber screwing with her life or a complete breakdown in the future
No, “Amazi-girl” just referred to “Amber” as she, which is how she’s talked pretty much since the comic started. “Amber” has been a little more lose with it, but not “Amazi-girl.”
And, yeah, I’m still not sure if I should put quotes on both of them for consistency, or only “Amber” since she’s the ambiguous one. “Amber” is the personality, Amber is the person.
Getting a bit annoyed at all the people insisting Danny should have done X or Y or read this better when this is taking place in the span of seconds and he doesn’t have the information we have, not to mention that someone being abusive at you is pretty distressing and tends to throw you off.
Yeah, that’s a reoccurring trend in the comment section, berating the characters for not doing the “obvious” solution to a problem, no matter how stressed, inexperienced or uninformed they are.
There was a lot of that going on during the kidnapping and during Becky’s first day as homeless.
Personally I don’t think there IS an obvious solution to most of these peoples problems. They have to play bad hands in a game they are not good at. They do their best, and when that is not good enough they still try to pick up the pieces and do damage control.
Like, what if Danny had folded here. “Sorry, Amaziegirl, I will never talk to her again Amaziegirl, I’m going now, Amaziegirl.” Then what?
Should he had waited until next time they were on their own to ask her? I think there would be a fair chance of her blowing up on him exactly like this, and even the best case scenario would have been her bolting away, as she did when after she yelled at him when he kissed her.
Danny is in a shitty situation. There are very few things he can do, and Amber makes sure to make even them very hard for him. I think this IS one of the best things he could have done – very meekly, very submissively make sure to let her know that he likes Amber, he is concerned about Amber and he things Amaziegirl is unhealthy. Of course she blows up at him and does whatever she can to push him away, but she still heard what he said.
Yeah. And it’s forgetting the costs surrounding choices like that. If he had folded, she would have continued berating him for talking in the first place. After all, it was as obvious to him as to her how evil she is, so why was he even talking in the first place, betraying her like that.
It also would have been a psychological mark, because he would have had to betray his own desires to be honest in relationships and support something untrue. And if he ever tried to back off that, note that she’s not a supervillain in the future, you can bet that his capitulation here would be trotted out and used against him, because that’s what happens.
Not to mention that a future conversation would never be allowed to occur and if it did it’d be at a disadvantage, because due to the buckling, the conversation “already occurred” and so why is Danny bringing up all this old stuff, hey, remember how you betrayed me talking to Sal, how have you been making this up to me and why are you continuing to do harm to me by bringing up this old shit?
I’ve been there and for the life of me, I’m not sure how the fuck you “beat” a no-win situation cause both the conciliatory but self-sacrificing and the tactful but firm approaches tend to end in flames.
I think future interactions with Amber will swing willy between accusations and self loathing. She is not Blaine and she HATES that side of herself, but she has very few tools to deal with it.
But yeah, buckling now would be very harmful for Danny because of his own issues, regardless of how Amber would have reacted.
I think it’s a common thing in life and definitely comes up a lot when a victim has horrible things happen to them.
People don’t like dwelling on things that are just bad, that don’t have an upside, so it’s natural to try and come up with some simple obvious solution that “solves the problem” nice and neatly, because then that can erase the awful moment a bit and make it less scary.
Big random, life ruining things can’t just come from nowhere and have no winning solution. The victim in question just fucked up and didn’t do right what I would have done right. So, I’m safe. If this happened to me, I’d know what to do and I would totally do it.
I’d have fixed my homelessness lickity-split by practicing good finances and being on top of my official records, I’d have been on top of my sexual assault, avoiding drinks at parties and responding perfectly afterwards, I’d have defused this abusive situation through empathy. I’d have not antagonized the transphobe.
Because imaginary yous can be flawless and can imagine that their solution would actually work, because they’re not there in that situation. They’ve never lived through it and therefore had to realize how hopeless it is and how much your brain serves as your worst enemy because these sorts of traumas and bad moments had just a bit more bullshit to your plate.
But just like victim-blaming in general, this desperate attempt to make the person feel more in control of their life also frequently comes with a lack of empathy for characters in shitty situations (because it becomes “how dare you not follow my awesome suggestion that would have solved this quickly”), but also the real world individuals who’ve been similar situations.
Yeah, that’s a reoccurring trend in the comment section, berating the characters for not doing the “obvious” solution to a problem, no matter how stressed, inexperienced or uninformed they are.
Or how terrible the ‘obvious solution’ is in context.
Same sort of folks who, in real life, will come up to you after the fact and tell you whatever you just had to figure out on the fly was wrong. Fact is, when it comes to being actually helpful, most people are full of should.
Danny, Amber is doing you a favor. Yeah, Amber, I’m not playing into her psychosis. She’s being completely unreasonable, and she’s not in full-blown controlling abusive relationship territory quite yet, but she’s just handed you a lot of red-flags. Hell, she’s practically waving them in your face. Break up. This is not healthy. I’m counting down the strips until she full on punches him, it’s that bad.
Ugh, I just wanna shake these characters sometimes. Like, that’s how invested I get about all of this, these characters feel fucking real, but jesus, too real. I’m like wanting to sit Danny down and point him towards loveisrespect.org.
So here are the first nine points of signs of emotional abuse on loveisrespect.org that sound far too applicable to Amber and Danny’s relationship thus far:
“There are many behaviors that qualify as emotional or verbal abuse:
-Calling you names and putting you down.
-Yelling and screaming at you.
-Intentionally embarrassing you in public.
-Preventing you from seeing or talking with friends and family.
-Telling you what to do and wear.
-Damaging your property when they’re angry (throwing objects, punching walls, kicking doors, etc.)
-Using online communities or cell phones to control, intimidate or humiliate you.
-Blaming your actions for their abusive or unhealthy behavior.
-Accusing you of cheating and often being jealous of your outside relationships.”
Also relevant to Danny: “Sometimes verbal abuse is so bad that you actually start believing what your partner says. You begin to think you’re stupid, ugly or fat. You agree that nobody else would ever want to be in a relationship with you. Constantly being criticized and told you aren’t good enough causes you to lose confidence and lowers your self esteem. As a result, you may start to blame yourself for your partner’s abusive behavior.”
This sounds so familiar and it hurts me so much to see, but we can’t deny it. Amber is abusive, and she absolutely has the power (and the temper) to take things to a physical level.
Oh finally, I hope Danny gets over her without blaming himself too much. I would love to see Amber grow from this, but honestly I more expect her to go off the deep-end and die as a result from her doing something really stupid.
“it was Monday”
“it was Tuesday”
“it was Wednesday”
“it was Thursday”
“it was Friday”
“it was my birthday”
“it was Christmas day”
“it was just another day
“it was just another Tuesday”
“it was payday”
Not related to this comic, but I just found out my parents are anti-vaxxers (and are saying “I don’t believe in those labels one way or another”), and believe the whole vaccines cause autism thing. After pointing out that that’s both completely untrue and offensive to those with autism, they brushed me off saying “You don’t know anything about this stuff. We’ve done research.” Anyone have any ideas on how to get them to stop?
The unfortunate fact of the matter is for the most part you can’t. You can show them the research (overwhelming research) that says it’s all bollocks but they’re unlikely to listen.
People as a general rule tend to listen to confirmation bias. There’s a comic ages back between Dina and Joyce where Joyce is being schooled in evolution and it cuts to a visual representation of the information getting binned in favour of preconceived notions. This is a fairly standard human trait to be honest. If you see you pieces of evidence, you’re more likely to follow the one which conforms to your own beliefs regardless to the quality of said evidence. Politically motivated “studies” are so harmful in this regard.
Nothing! Facts actually make them doubt you more! Ironically the only thing that actually works on them is widespread social condemnation. Public shaming is really the only thing you can do.
So basically, short of trying to invoke depression and its hyper-self-criticizing nature, there’s nothing I can do. I kind of figured that was the case.
You could always go for the “I’m not attacking your delusion” approach of seeing if they will acknowledge that not everyone who gets vaccines gets autism, and isn’t it worth the “risk” to prevent the actual debilitating and potentially fatal diseases that the vaccines are intended to prevent? Given that many autistic people live quite happily, and aren’t, you know, dead from a preventable disease?
Nothing, but you can try finding the research that debunked theirs rather than unrelated vaccine studies on similar topics. The rest is up to how much you are able to tell them off and whether they are willing to learn anything
Also maybe point out that deceased due to polio, whooping cough, or smallpox is kind of a lot nore of a problem than literally any vaccine argument (and I just read an article on someone whose baby is/was in intensive care because she refused vaccines and it couldn’t breathe from whooping cough, so there are current examples you can pull from).
If you want something more friendly, there are a fewe comics on the subject too.
That’s a difficult one. Even if you bring up facts about how many people died of the illnesses that are commonly vaccinated for nowadays, they will have counters like “yeah, but now people are much better fed and their immune systems can beat it down”.
It doesn’t help that the industry plays down the occasional problems with vaccination.
A bit like the argument about pasteurized vs raw milk. Both are based on forgetting the danger the strategy avoids and focussing on a much lesser danger, tiny compared to the original risk, that is visible now as a result of apllying the strategy.
If you’re interested in stopping the transmission of the antivaxxer core ideas, you could go for the intellectual sabotage route and feed them more garbage that plays into their cognitive biases until they lack credibility generally. But that’s a scorched-earth strategy and they are your family.
I twitch every time I read that. May not be sure on what causes Autism, but it’s known what doesn’t cause it. And the two, TWO, occurrences where the anti-vaxxers cite for the whole Autism thing, it wasn’t Autism, but a different thing that presents like Autism. NOT Autism.
Sorry, just big on calling a thing it’s correct thing.
That he’s the one who finally held it up to her face for the first time, what role she’s taking in the cycle?
People really seemed to shit on Mike for that. All I really noticed is his direct delivery actually HIT HOME rather than all the eggshell crap everyone else has tried with Amber for fear of angering her.
Why does anyone in the comments bother? It’s not like they can see what we type? No Joker or Deadpool type characters there. Though it is cathartic for us.
In the interest of just getting this off my chest, I am really bummed out to see the end of Danny and Amber. There’s zero representation of bi dudes in opposite gender relationships in media, so seeing Danny figure out he was bi and still very obviously still be in love with Amber, I liked that. I liked that there was an opposite gender relationship for a bi dude that was treated with as much validity and agency as any other, and before this I was really banking on seeing Danny come out to her and try to work through this confusing mine field of new feelings while already in a relationship, because that’s something that I’ve never seen before, and I would have loved to just have one example of that anywhere. Though being honest, pretty much everything David Willis could write about Danny would be breaking new grounds for bi characters, because bi characters never get to do anything ever. If this is the catalyst for Danny/Ethan, all I ask is that it’s not the only Queer dude narrative ever, where the two important Queer dudes in the cast meet and instantly fall in love forever and everything is perfect and magical, and they never grow or develop or get challenged because they’re too busy just being so amazing with one another.
Other than that, it is disappointing to see that Amber’s storyline is now about how she’s definitely an abuser. I liked how she responded to her trauma by burying it so deeply that she created this whole new slew of problems for herself, how anger was this completely unforgivable sin for her, and here she is deliberately tearing Danny down. I’m not sure if this is “X is better than Y” so much as I really preferred one story to the other, but I did like that dynamic in Amber’s character and it’s sad to see it replaced with a much more typical narrative for characters with histories of abuse.
Just as you say, there are lot’s of possible stories to be told, and the one Willis chose to tell us does not invalidate the others.
For me, the most important aspect of Danny’s story is that he is a doormat. He and Joe tell two different stories about masculinity and the problems with them. Now we have seen two relationships end badly for Danny, from his part because he was too bad at setting boundaries and making demands (an important part of Dorothy’s story, relationshipwise, is getting use to someone who actually has a bit more integrity).
From that perspective, the most important part for me with his budding romance with Ethan will be if Ethan chose to leave the closet or not. Danny’s need to keep his relationship with Amber secret has been a catastrophe, he really doesn’t need another partner that want to keep their relationship secret, however glorious his man-chest.
Ethan and Danny also share their mutual worry about Amber, and how they chose to handle that will be much more important in the short term than their attraction for each other.
All this is extremely important for Danny’s characterisation. He is a doormat way, WAY in over his head. I think this very strip shows the most he has been asserting himself in the entire comic.
Hell, there’s near zero representation of bi dudes in media (that last longer than a minor arc) who aren’t rewritten at some point to have “just been in a phase and now they only have eyes for X” or to be some cheater character that everyone knew would betray Y character someday because of their bisexuality.
And that really sucks, so I feel for you here.
I trust that Willis will take the time to build Ethan/Danny if it is likely to happen in a way where it’s not just “perfect queer relationship” and he’s been pretty good about not erasing the bisexuality of bi characters in relationships… these days (still have issues with how Billie was initially handled in Roomies, but that’s a much younger Willis with less practice on these sorts of things).
And yeah, I also feel you on mourning specific plot lines. Like, it was nice to have a DID character who had massive issues and shit to work through but wasn’t a scary and abusive threat to others. And well, now…
Which isn’t to say it’s bad. Hell, this arc is helping me process some of the stuff that came up in the relationship that occupied the majority of my 20s, so yay, there’s that.
I totally agree, bi people are very underrepresented in the media, especially men. Its one of the reasons I love Elliot on SciFi’s The Magicians: He is openly bi/pan and has casual and serious relationships with both men and women but its not like its ever blatantly stated he’s bi.. Its not necessary. He’s accepted. No one questions it.
But as a bi, now recently married person, I have to say eventually yea, many of us do settle down, with one person monogamously. That doesn’t mean being bi was a phase, it just meant (I/others like myself) were open to monogamous relationships with both genders, and eventually found one I would like to spend my life with, gender irrelevant. It doesn’t mean I’m no longer attracted to the opposite gender of my S.O. 🙂
Very much all of this.
I really don’t like the way this whole storyline is going. I still have hopes that Willis will pull something off that will be even more satisfying for how bad it is right now, but I’m not as sure of that as I was awhile back.
I think this might be Amber’s biggest freakout to date. Amaziegirl has always been the part of her persona that is in control, but now Amber is freaked out enough to hide and let Amaziegirl take over in broad daylight, in front of people, no mask or costume, and Amaziegirl heaps abuse on Danny, pushes him away and runs off. This is not Amaziegirl being in control, this is Amaziegirl scrambling frantically and saying whatever dumb shit her brain offers up in order to maintain the illusion of control.
Unfortunately she has learnt how to control people in a relationship from Blaine.
I think as soon as Amber resurfaces she will not only be devestated by guilt – she will also be very weary of Amaziegirl. Up to now she has trusted Amaziegirl to not make the bad decisions Amber would have made. I don’t think she will maintain that trust after this.
I strongly suspect that Amber is going to lash out now; lash out randomly and without her usual care to choose the ‘deserving’ for punishment. Amazi-Girl will become the monster that she accuses Sal of being and, worst of all, it is going to undermine the persona’s value as a safety valve. She’s going to lose all of her supporters in quick succession because she’s just going to turn into a thug attacking people who she regards as ‘bad’ or ‘annoying’ almost at random.
I suspect that the preview panels we’ve seen of Mike and Ethan visiting Amber’s dorm room and Dina and Amber are from a future ‘intervention’ storyline. I’m guessing that Mike basically taunts Ethan into coming out of his passive comfort zone and acting and is there at the dorm room to make sure that he doesn’t wimp out at the last minute.
I’m hoping that there is a future for Danny and Amber but it can only happen after Amber confronts her demons and comes out the other side with a clearer understanding of objective reality.
So as for the comic itself, I think an important distinction to make is how Amber’s alters react to expressing anger.
Amber is terrified of getting angry. She buries it until something snaps and it just violently explodes everywhere, whereupon she starts to self-abuse in guilt and shame, compartmentalizing the latest infraction so she can use it as further proof that she is as obviously shit as she always knew she was. The last time she got angry at Danny it took all of one panel for her to break down in guilt, and she had to run away to Amazi-Girl so she could tear Amber down, because Amber is never allowed to make mistakes or express her anger because anger is a sin.
Amazi-Girl, the perfect, golden alter, the one who exists to protect that shitty violent coward who couldn’t save Ethan, isn’t just angry, she’s going for direct attacks on Danny. She’s choosing the most painful things she could possibly say to him, blaming him for failing her, that Amber really needed him but he’s nowhere near as important as Amazi-Girl, and treating this attack as Danny being too weak to support her when Amber didn’t even manage to swear at him before she burst into tears. And all this because he was standing in the vicinity of the Criminal Scum that Amazi-Girl has pinned all of her problems upon, but never thought to talk to him about. She’s so incapable of registering Sal as a human being that being near her is an unforgivable infraction on Danny’s part.
I think at this point, it’s clear that the love for Danny that Amber attributes to Amazi-Girl is really coming from Amber herself.
Yeah, and it reveals the cold poison “golden alters” tend to be. When I was a dumbass kid, the “golden alter” for me that I treated as the guardian of morality was actually the alter who was most dangerous to me and had the most problematic moral code of all of them. And when I believed otherwise, I ended up doing a lot of harm to myself, worsening things like childhood dysphoria and suicidal ideation that could have been less intense with a less hostile approach to the alters I saw as “bad” back then.
Good riddance. Danny does not need someone who gets so irrationally bent out of shape when he is in the vicinity of the person whom Amber pins all her problems on. Especially since he has no context for why she’s reacting like this, and she certainly won’t tell him.
Back in Sept ’13 Amber told Mike that she “totally, happily trusted Danny” AND that she took advantage of that. AND when Mike pointed out that she was doing some Blaine-type behavior A got very border-line violent angry. So ..
My inner Amazi-girl (and I think we all have her, to some extent) wants to grab Amber and make her stop. Be stronger than her so she can’t hurt me, and force her to do what we all know would actually fix her problems, instead of making them worse.
And I would like to remind people that what Amber is going through is literally torture. As in, she had a complete panic attack here. And a panic attack is the thing that waterboarding causes that got it declared as torture.
And she has these every time she is triggered.
No, she’s not handling things right. Yes, she’s being horrible to Danny. But do not lose sight of what she’s going through. If you do, all the build up of showing you why she is the way she is was for naught.
She’s not Mary. She’s not Carol. She’s not Mike. And she’s not John. She’s not evil. She’s a good person going through more shit that most of you will ever go through. And, although she is fictional, there are plenty of people out there like her.
Absolutely right. Amber has a complete and utter freakout. We know why, we know the road here, and we have seen her coping mechanisms fail one after another until she falls back to the worst possible mechanism she knows – the one taught to her by Blaine.
All of the above. And that’s the tragedy of Amber and why I feel so similarly to her as I do my ex. She’s going through torture because of the traumas given to her by her abuser. And in a world where she can hardly think because of that, she defaults to what lies deepest. And what lies deepest is both the survival skills she used to survive Blaine as a child (for better or for worse) and the methods of interacting with the world he carefully taught her (for worse and for The Literal Worst).
She’s not abusive in the mold of getting off on the power and the dehumanization like Blaine does, but she does do abusive stuff because when her mind is blank with panic and her emotions are FUBARed to all hell, she defaults to her default and her default is poisoned with his rot.
Ugh, I have so many tangled up feelings about people who do that.
Doesn’t mean it’s not a good thing if they get back together.
Unless the story really is Amber is too screwed up to be safe and is just going to get worse for the forseeable future. Which would be a really sucky story. Even if it’s a realistic one.
Back during Family Weekend Amber told Mike that she happily trusted Danny but took advantage of him. And when Mike suggested that she was going to the Blaine-side, she got border-line-violent enraged at him.
I get that happiness isn’t really a necessary thing for necessary character development, but we’re on a long stretch of unhappiness here and it’s getting really hard to not just be like “alright, I’m done.”
For those with Patreon, is it relevant to post the “honey, you have a big storm coming” pic?
I rather think, the ability to physically relax and be happy is a necessary prerequisite for healing trauma. Don’t know if that also applies to mental illness but it seems likely.
You have to gain energy to deal with trauma, you have to be able to imagine that things could be different. Else, why try?
And I fail to see why I should have any sympathy for Amber here. She’s just as abusive as her father, she’s violent, she’s controlling, and she’s kind of psychopathic.
At leas Sal has mended her ways and is trying to deal with her own baggage and her own insecurities without becoming a toxic personality. In fact, between dealing with Walky and Amazi-Girl, I think Sal deserves a medal and a statue on campus.
Why feel sympathetic for Amber? Probably because we’ve seen how she’s come to this point and recognize it’s largely being controlled by circumstances and poor coping mechanisms.
She’s nowhere near as abusive as her father; she hasn’t hunted down the target of her psychological abuse nor manipulated those around the target to create an even more damaging response/situation and try to use it to her favor.
None of what she’s done has been very deliberate, but reflexive and yes, irrational, but primarily from our perspective. Her feelings toward Sal are the major problem, but grounded in trauma that Sal WAS actually responsible for the source of. No, Sal didn’t mean to do the damage. She shouldn’t be held any more liable for it then she already has, but it’s not Amber’s fault that she has poor reactions based on untreated trauma actually made worse by an abusive parent.
You should still have sympathy for her here because we’re seeing how awful traits can emerge in a not awful person. If you automatically disconnect with people because of unfavorable traits, how will you ever relate to or recognize similar problems of your own or of those you care about?
The AG/superhero storylines tended not to be my favorites, with some really great exceptions anytime we went into her past or motivations or Blaine stuff. But I certainly sympathized.
Now as Amber’s becoming more and more abusive it’s harder to feel anything for her but detachment. I’ve had so many “Ambers” in my life that it’s a conditioned response at this point. Some of us who disconnect do so because we’ve been overwhelmingly taught in life that it’s the option that causes us the least mental/physical harm.
You can have sympathy as you walk away. I wouldn’t demand someone who’s been abused have sympathy for abusers. It’s nice if they can, but not my demand to make.
Your response is understandable. It’s your coping mechanism and if it works, it works. Amber’s is to defend and distrust, with the unfortunate side effect of causing a lot of damage to her relationships with others and distress for the people involved. She’s been overwhelmingly taught in life that it’s the best option and most effective, hence her increasing reliance on it in the face of stress.
I’m not demanding anyone sympathize. I’m giving reasons why they should, but it’s their own prerogative. I don’t see how it’s wrong to think that abusers can and should also be recognized and understood as human, including sympathy for the circumstances. Yes, in reality the danger is being manipulated by this sympathy and a calculated distance may be maintained. But the disconnect as a conditioned response is no more an excuse than the abuse as one, and if we expect her/abusers to sympathize and not behave inappropriately (at least for judgment, not for predictions) then we do have a responsibility to extend that sympathy to them as well.
No one’s saying abusers are inhuman in this thread. By all means sympathize with abusive people, there’s nothing wrong with that at all. 🙂 But insisting that victims have a responsibility to do the same, or else they’re just making excuses, is tough for some survivors to agree with.
I don’t owe my unapologetic abusers jack shit any more than Amber owes anything to Blaine (or Becky to Toedad). Anything she could give him would be over and beyond any obligation she currently has to him. Sometimes not sympathizing is less about denying someone’s humanity, and more about reclaiming your own sanity after your abuser’s made you question it.
My personal coping mechanisms come from years of relationships with several abusers and years of therapy with several psychologists supporting the approach. I’m comfortable owning them. They aren’t excuses to me and quite frankly learning them saved my life. I doubt I’ll need them indefinitely, but yes, I do need them now.
Maintaining a “calculated distance” with an abuser while extending sympathy and support (IF you’re their victim) isn’t effective IME. That’s not the victim’s battle to fight, and hearing that it is mentally queues up the “IT’S A TRAP!” sound byte.
IRL there is no prize awarded to victims for Feeling Sorry For Your Abuser And Trying To Analyze Why They Are How They Are, if you’re still engaged with them. What’s heartbreaking is that in this dynamic the “prize” the victim is usually after is just the abuser’s love and acceptance.
IRL we don’t get years of omniscient narrative backstory to understand what’s really making our abusers tick and why they might just be good people deep down. It speaks to the quality of the writing when Amber so strongly reminds us of real-life abuse patterns. In the comic though, because we’ve been given so much information, we can see why we can have sympathy for her, and it’s safe to explore that because it’s all fictional.
But as good as the comic is, it’s not a model for all behaviors in real life, and sympathizing with my abusers without also totally disengaging put me in incredibly dangerous situations.
I’m also noticing that in the comic, most attempts by Danny to sympathize and offer real help/connection have been met with varying degrees of raging anger–which has finally escalated to this. That’s very realistic and sad. Danny’s sympathy (and low self esteem) has kept him emotionally invested in the abusive cycle, preventing him from disengaging and changing the dynamic that’s doing increasingly serious harm to both of them.
TL;DR Victims moving past abuse specifically have a tough time being insisted to sympathize with abusers, but it doesn’t change the rightness of what you say re: that it’s still good to have sympathy/empathy for people who do bad things, and try to understand them.
Yeah, Amber has joined Sarah on my list of “Fuck you, you’re a stupid piece of shit who’s too self-absorbed in your own psychodrama to actually care about other people’s feelings” people.
Sarah, really? She’s abrasive and unpleasant, but not cruel or manipulative. And you can tell she actually, really cares. It ultimately comes down to stonewalling other people because the last time she opened up, it ended in disaster.
She’s just smart and mean. But not all the time. She’s caught herself being insensitive and self-absorbed too, and immediately stopped the behavior in favor of connecting to another person. Recently too. Signs of growth.
Blaine would also have grown up in the 70s or 80s, when a lot environments didn’t really treat kids with mental issiues as anything other than bad seeds. Not saying that we’re perfect nowadays, of course, but it’s worth keeping in mind that even if people noticed something wrong with Blaine odds are good nobody really got involved.
It would be interesting to get a hint of how Blaine was when he was younger. Like, what was he like when he and Amber’s Mom got together? Was he already that bad back then or did he get meaner with age? For some reason I imagine a young Blaine as being someone akin to Mary. Toxic and selfcentered but still trying to keep up appearances of being in the right.
It’s still the same today. PBS posted an article yesterday about new research on discipline for children, and some woman went off in the comments section about how it’s totally normal for her four-year-old to declare “I’m going to be bad today,” make a mean face, and then pinch the baby or kick the dog. And that ‘all four year olds do that’ and that ‘nipping it in the bud with punishment’ is the normal way to handle it. :/ Not even joking – someone thinks that’s “normal” behavior for a child who’s supposed to be learning empathy at that age.
THIS is how fucking people like Blaine and Amber are created. Remember? Blaine CRITICIZED Amber for not being a violent asshole when Ethan was held hostage. He CRITICIZED her for ‘being like her mom’ and walking away instead of fighting him. He thought that if she were “normal,” and not a ‘weakling,’ that she would be violent, manipulative, and abusive – like him.
We’ll be able to intervene with the creation of people like Blaine and Amber when we’re willing to knuckle down and admit that violence and aggression are NOT the natural state of being for people, it’s TAUGHT.
I’m not sure Sal went anywhere. Danny followed Amber down the steps in this strip and we where close up on them last strip. She could be just off camera now.
She could have heard Danny’s first “Said she saved you”, which would be enough to clue her in.
Everyone’s always sure that everyone has easily figured out Amber was Amazi-Girl, apparently ecause it’s so easy and obvious from our perspective, because there have never been any clues in the actual comic that any one has.
Except for Dina, who didn’t get that it was a secret all, but she’s also Amber’s roommate and might well have been standing behind a door when Amber changed at some point.
And Dorothy, where we actually saw her find the clues and put it together – mostly by accident.
There’s no reason Sal would have a clue. Sal has barely even seen Amber – partly because Amber panics and runs away when she sees Sal.
I think Danny accidentally hinted at it way too much (also it depends how much of that conversation she heard), but before that I would definitely agree. Some people have decided she must be from Clark or whichever the girls one is, but it’s not like Sal would care to talk about that, even if she talked to them.
I haven’t been in these comments ever so I don’t know what has already been said but it just hit me in this comic that Amber seems to have DID (disassociative identity disorder) or something like it. She has a split personality that fronts to save her when she is feeling emotionally vulnerable. I dunno if this is a completely intentional decision or if she has something else that is presenting as DID.
It really seems to be DID so I can’t be mad at her for her current attitude, I hope someone cares enough to recognize this is really something wrong with her (Maybe Sal, actually, she’s the only one who can tell something is really wrong with being an honest to god super hero) and gets her psychological help. Believe me seeing a psychiatrist and a psychologist would be the best thing for her. She could deal with her feelings and her oscillating feelings.
I don’t think it’s DID because there’s no blackouts. I think it’s definitely dissociation and identity issues, though. Like, dissociation is a spectrum and DID is the absolute extreme of one of it’s manifestations and Amber isn’t that far, but I can see why people read it like that.
Blackouts and amnesia are not requirements for DID. If it were, I would not be able to hold the type of employment I do. And believe me, I’ve most definitely had DID since at least when I was 5.
Blackouts and amnesia are merely requirements for research papers on DID to give a fuck about you. Because that’s a sexy version of the disease that can make a name for a psychology professor. As such, there’s almost next to no literature on post-integration DID or semi-integrated DID and how someone can create a full dissociation and the failure of alters to share memories.
However, there’s a lot we can pull together by communities and life experiences of DID individuals.
I’m confused and genuinely curious. Dissociative Amnesia is one of the criteria for diagnosis of DID (at least for those using the DSM)..but I’m not trained in psychology and recognize a little google is a dangerous thing. So…if it’s not too exhausting to explain, for what I’m sure is the thousandth time, what is the definition for DID that you are using?
Distinct alters, whether they be integrated or amnesiacally disassociated. The alters are defined as being distinct in personality traits, either being tied to a moment (alters stuck in time like the 9 year old kid alter of someone who was horrifically abused at that age) or full consciousness that are fully aware of the current time.
These alters can be “proven” by the attempt to eliminate them, though that is not at all recommended given how bad this is for the person who has the alters. A DID person’s alter will fight back against elimination often at the expense of mental health.
As far as I can tell, it’s looking like one of the potential origins of amnesiac DID symptoms is that for the longest time, alters were treated as delusions and so the treatment was about eliminating alters in favor of the “real” personality, which would cause the alters who were being “eliminated” to fight back and start hiding their memories from the core self. Amnesiac disassociation can also be a trauma protection method (protect the rest of the brain from the emotional weight of bad memories).
Interactions between alters can be varied, some like me experiencing their integration like an on-going conversation between distinct entities with their own personal histories and emotional responses to things. Others can be more contentious or hidden depending on their life circumstances.
Does this help? If not, please let me know if you have any other questions.
Another instance of “Hey, I have crippling psychological and emotional problems, and I’m well aware of them, but I refuse to deal with them or get help for them, because…reasons.”
“but I refuse to deal with them or get help for them, because”?
Because I have crippling psychological and emotional problems.
That’s the nasty thing about crippling psychological and emotional problems. They very often keep you from doing the sometimes very simple things that would fix them.
YEP, THIS, LITERALLY THIS. Fun thing about crippling psychological and emotional problems: They convince you that THIS IS YOU, THIS IS NORMAL, THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE EXPERIENCES and it is entirely YOUR FAULT that you cannot handle them like the NORMAL PERSON YOU SHOULD BE. And then if/when you manage to realize something is seriously wrong, said crippling psychological and emotional problems tell you you ABSOLUTELY should not tell other people because again, it is entirely your fault you cannot handle this on your own, but also because alerting other people to what’s going on in your head would mean they all know what a weird failure you are, which is the absolute worst possible thing imaginable to you in the hellpit that is your head. Remember what Amazi-Girl said to Joyce, after all – “I’M crazy. He’s just some asshole with a gun.” She’s aware this is an atypical coping mechanism, probably even aware this isn’t the best option out there, but Blaine and society have told her she should be able to manage this by herself and if she weren’t such a terrible fuckup she wouldn’t be doing this now would she.
The sad thing is that Amber is becoming like her father and she doesn’t have the insight to see this. Therapy would be a good idea for someone like her.
She sees in it some ways; I think it really got to her when she realised she enjoyed punching Blaine way back when. The red background of rage kicks in and she loses control, and in those instances she is like her father and probably knows it, and that’s why it scares her, and that’s why she compartmentalises like she does, even though it’s becoming more and more obvious that this is not a healthy way to deal with her issues.
But she doesn’t see the other ways that she’s becoming her father. She only seems to associate physical violence with being like him. With enough self-awareness, in the future she may look back on this scee with one of her red background of rage flashbacks and realise that there are different ways of being like her father.
The best thing Danny can do right now is respect this and leave Amber alone for a while. Amber has to come back to him or else it’ll just solidify her current feelings.
That being said, Amber really needs to see a counselor, one that she hires so that confidentiality applies. Otherwise this is just going to get worse. Unfortunately, she won’t unless she gets caught, or unless she does something that even she views as unforgivable.
Yes. Not all hotlines or counseling services are necessarily run by licensed professionals obligated/privileged to maintain the confidentiality of these conversations. “One that she hires,” isn’t exactly the necessary precursor, but ensuring the proper forms and process has been gone through to make sure things are confidential is. (Becoming a client of record, signing off on any disclaimers or policies, etc.)
this is hitting really hard for me because i have HUGE trust and relationship issues because of the verbal and emotional abuse i received from my mother over the years, and i think a really major part of that (and one of the reasons I’m NEVER having children) is because I’m terrified that I’m going to act like her and treat people like she does – I don’t want to become my mother.
It would really seems contrived for drama purpose to make Amber react like that, if her character wasn’t so well established. When you know her, you know she will act like that. Still this kind of irrational reaction irk me in really bad.
People expecting other to behave in a certain based on element they have no means to know in the first place need to understand people are not omniscient.
Damn it Amber. Just damn it. Willis – just as you defied laws of physics in so many ways with Amazi-Girl’s abilities (the car chase!) I expect you to defy all logical outcomes here and make Amber not be broken anymore. You know, because I’m feeling. And I love that girl. Make her happy – I don’t need to believe the reasons – just make it happen. (pretty please?)
OK, Amber needs serious therapy and she doesn’t strike me as the type to get it unless she has no other choice.
Danny, the smart thing to do here would be to inform an authority figure about Amazi-Girl’s identity. Any trouble Amber might get into for her vigilantism is worth it if it means saving her life.
Blaine, shut up and go fight with Mike or something. :p (Seriously, that Blaine!face on Amber gets more obvious all the time. She needs to do something about that. :/ )
At this point, I am 99% sure Amber has DID, and Amazi-Girl is getting way too control on what was supposed to be the “main” personality. Back when the comic started, Amazi-Girl and Amber weren’t as… separate. Amazi-Girl looked like just a costume and a name Amber put on to fight crime. Now? Now Amazi-Girl has taken over and is making decisions for Amber.
Amber doesn’t have DID. DID people become their other personality and don’t remember it. Amber is just using Amazi-Girl as a Power Object Fantasy which is an entirely different condition.
That’s not actually how DID works. Amnesia is not a requirement of the condition. If it were, people would be “magically cured” the moment they achieved integration.
So when Amber is institutionalized, who will Willis draft for action scenes?
I nominate Danny. Because Rule of Funny. Who would be the least appropriate person to become a costumed vigilante?
Amber really needs to get some help. Like, legitimate, serious help. She’s become pretty much unable to listen to concerns from people who genuinely care about her.
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to be fair, ANYONE would choose Amazi-Girl over Danny
also you can support people AND be civil to people you didn’t know were your SO’s self-declared arch-nemeses who even the arch-nemeses didn’t realize they were arch-nemeses
Is an arch-nemesis really an arch-nemeses if they dont know that they are the arch-nemeses?
“For you, the day that I robbed a convenience store and you tried to stab me was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.”
… it was Tuesday.”
*dang it, accidentally hit the send button.
it was Tuesday.”
Are they really blocking this?
Sorry dude this is kind of a funny string of comments.
I’m just trying to say “it was Tuesday” and it keeps deleting it when I send.
SERIOUSLY!!!
Idunno. I’d Take Danny honestly. Amazi-girl is kinda. yeah. nah. aint touchin that.
Are you trying to say “for me, it was” followed by the third day of the week?
Alternatively, are you trying to say that a person is so benumbed to committing atrocities that they’re no more memorable to him than his Tuesday pilates class?
Does it involve Raul Julia and Tuesdays?
Yes, I am very much trying to say that. Apparently, this joke has been used so often here that it’s now censored. Being fairly new to the comment section, I did not know that.
Lol, just reading how out of control the censoring here has gotten has brightened up my whole day. BTW, can anybody tell me what day of the week D-Day of WWII was?
Anybody? Huh, I guess nobody knows.
Tuesday. It blocks the phrase, not the word, for it was the prase itself that got annoying.
Yes because people keep making that same damn reference.
Wait, is the site seriously rigged to delete that sentence? Why? Just why? Does Willis hate fun?
Because that quote has been posted like thousands of time literally every time Amber and Sal’s backstory has come up. It wasn’t funny the first time.
well, it sure is funny NOW
I find it funny as well. Welcome to the club, Chris.
I alway found that reference dosnt even work though sal might not remember Amber but I highly doubt that for sal it was just a Thursday, or whatever other day of the week. To this day sal dosnt take off her gloves that hide the scar from when Amber stabbed her hand. Also sal not remembering Amber seem almost legitimate Amber wasn’t the person she took hostage and then when Amber was taking an active roll sal’s dealing with pain of stab wound and all so yeah rant rant rant reference dosnt even work because reason that I’m being way to anal about
I’m with Willis on this one, the censor made it funny.
Oh and muckle: another one checking in. Thanks for noticing! Luv ya!
@modulsshift
His comment was deleted. I have to say the mods seem a bit trigger-happy here. I have to say I find this disconcerting. While his comment was insulting, I have thicker skin that this and don’t feel it was necessary to delete it. I say, if people want to show the world how close-minded and mean they are, let them make fools of themselves. Then again, it’s not my website, so…
He draws the line early and often, because if people casually make that kind of remark to something like this, they’re likely to cause more shit later on during a harder to moderate time. And this comic doesn’t shy away from harder to moderate topics. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t make life easier on himself. The important part is what he’s here to say, and what we as a community take from it. Comments help, if they’re positive and relevant. Not so much when they cross the line to no longer contributing.
Can’t say I’m a fan of that approach. It might make the comment section into a more comfortable space for some, but it comes at a cost. As you said, the comic tackles a lot of sensitive topics, and that means the comments will to. Often, there’s a thin line between a comment that’s purposely offensive and one that’s just lacking in tact, and I don’t feel the second type needs to be suppressed. In fact, it can often be a crucial part of conversations. Not only can it be hard to draw the line, but if the delete button is hit to often, it can dissuade users from even addressing sensitive topics at all. When the rules aren’t clear and you can’t tell what will get your comment deleted, everyone starts walking on eggshells, and that’s ultimately detrimental to the conversation.
On the other hand, I understand that a website is in fact not a public space, but a private property that we’re invited to. Willis is hosting our comments on his website, and if he doesn’t want to host certain comments, that’s his prerogative. It’s just not how I’d personally do it.
And I’ll drop the first couple rules in the FAQ linked at the top, too:
1) Be nice to other people. You don’t have to agree with them, but don’t call them morons. Thankfully, this happens very very rarely because this isn’t YouTube, but I think I should establish this as a ground rule, regardless. A good rule of thumb is that comments should be about the comic, not the other comment makers. This doesn’t mean at all that interacting with other folks and having fun is off-limits, but if you wanna start a dissertation about whether or not other specific folks are awful, stick it on Tumblr. If your post starts using words like “idiot” or “dumbass” or similar directed at other specific people in the comments, you’ve gone too far, and I’ll probably either erase that part of your post or the whole thing. Sarcasm is often fine, but, you know, just don’t be overtly hostile.
2) Please don’t proselytize in the comments. To this you may respond, “But you get to preach on your website!” To which I nod and say, yes, you’ve figured it out.
I think Rule 1 covers your concerns. Lacking in tact doesn’t really matter when it’s completely irrelevant to the comic, and this is the comic comments. Make it about the comic, and not about the commenters, and you’re fine. And that’s clearly laid out, so no real eggshell problems, either.
And yes, Willis’s website, all praise and/or damn Willis.
I am familiar with the FAQ, but those rules are still vague. They basically boil down to Willis deleting comments whenever he feels they’re offensive, based on very subjective criteria. Again, not protesting, it’s his website, but I do question the wisdom in deleting comments when people haven’t specifically asked for them to be deleted. When people have no idea when or why censorship strikes, they can feel it’s not worth even addressing sensitive topics.
And wait, is proselytizing legal when it’s Willisism?
I get where it would be an aggravating approach to forum moderation if this were an open forum. But it is not really “open”, it is in Willis’ “place of business” so to speak and directly attached to his work so it is understandable to me that he gets to make the rules as he sees fit. Most of the webcomics I read don’t have any direct comment spaces in the first place for several reasons but I am sure moderating is a big one.
As for the autocensoring, this comic gets hundreds of comments daily in a very short span of time after a comic goes live. That added to the fact that there is one moderater, who is the content creator as well, and he has twinfants at home, turns the heavyhanded use of autocensoring into a bit of necessary evil in my book.
Exactly.
2) Please don’t proselytize in the comments. To this you may respond, “But you get to preach on your website!” To which I nod and say, yes, you’ve figured it out.
His house, his rules. No webmaster has an obligation to host you or anyone else, unless you are paying them for the privilege.
I think the only time he starts deleting stuff is when people start posting things like “Sick burn on Carla, Mary!”, or “Jonathan has some very good points on how Joyce should act.”, etc etc. You know, hurtful, troll comments.
Oh yeah. That joke got old but people mad they couldn’t make it is fucking priceless.
And here is how to do this joke and bypass the censor!
It was the day my parents abandoned me.
It was Tuesday
It was Tuesday.
(Sorry about that random blank comment. I hit post without filling
In my email, and didn’t realise my comment also had to be re-entered
Ok, now what’s happened. I typed “for me it was Tuesday”
and it’s blank
Oh… Maybe I should have read the whole thread before
Commenting
Yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX2eEICejB0
I think the deal breaker here is that Danny wants her to take a break from being Amazi-girl, not him being friendly with Sal
Well, but it’s only because Sal’s gotten to him that he’d ever suggest such a thing, so it’s really all Sal’s fault. Who but her arch-nemesis would ever suggest Amazi-Girl retire? And why? What’s her sinister plan?
More seriously, Danny’s still not actually getting it. She can’t just stop being Amazi-Girl. AG is her coping mechanism. Amber can’t function without her. That’s obviously bad and she needs to develop better ways to cope – and to reintegrate the two halves, but just suppressing AG isn’t an option.
Actually, I choose Danny.
Seconded.
Thirded
fourthed, fifthed, and sixthed
seventhed
eight
Your lack of a th fittingly daned it up. Ninth at least for this amizagirl.
Uh… twelfth?
42nd
Forty Seven Thousandnd
Google, or we at the googleplex level already?
TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!
And many mooooooore~
I would also go with Danny at this point. He’s up for experimentation and isn’t dangerously unhinged.
Danny’s probably better off without Amber :/
Agreed. Sad to say, Amber’s more of a head case than a freshman, first-time in a college relationship, boyfriend can, or should even try, to handle.
Good luck, Danny.
Amber seems to be beyond the help of anyone but a professional.
I think there is no ‘probably’ to it.
Wanna see Amber come even further unglued? Danny hooks up with Ethan and she’s convinced she caused it.
I’m waiting for that exact storyline, tbh.
*looks over at Ship*
*remembers what comic this is*
*hesitates*
SO CONFLICTED
Oh man I know the feel.
QUICK, TO A UNIVERSE WHERE DANNY AND ETHAN HOOK UP BUT AMBER’S FINE ABOUT IT
Same.
It’s official: The PAYDAY Gang (With the notable exception of Wolf and Jacket) endorse Danny and support whatever antics he does next.
Oh that wacky Danny!
Cue an entire week of strips showing Danny eating breakfast cereal.
(I hope you’re happy.)
Three meals a day eating cereal?
Hello Dina, we seem to share the same dietary habit.
With or without marshmallows?
No raisins are an abomination, I agree fully with you on that.
Ran out of milk. Apple juice? Why not?
Definitely! Amazi-girl is legitimately scaring me and is going down a path where she has a possibility of becoming the type of vigilante we sadly get too much in the real world.
Danny, while a doofus with a lot to learn, at least has just shown the willingness to try.
There’s a reason we get that kind of vigilante in the real world pretty much every fucking time, and while DID might not be part of it normally, the path Amazi-girl is taking pretty much is it.
My actual reaction to this strip: “Dammit, Amber, stop making me agree with Dan.”
I’d choose Danny over like half the cast.
well, audience prolly doesn’t count, being all semi-omniscient and all
also a bunch of us have already gotten through our wild-oat-sowing, party-all-nighting phases where stability and even boringness looks hot by comparison
Hey, you said ANYONE.
Demiscient?
So . . . Like anyone else?
I have a preference for “superiscient”, personally.
Demi means half, while omni means all.
If we’re going on a scale from 0% to 100% of knowing/seeing EVERYTHING, I would say that 50% is significantly higher than any individual in-universe human being.
That said, it would in many ways suck if the half of everything that you know/see were the half of the universe that does not include our galaxy. Cool in the abstract, but pretty low in practical applications.
I don’t get the Danny hate here. It’s not like Roomies! Danny this Danny seems like a decent guy to me.
Welp. Looks like Ethan’s gonna be choosing Danny over Amazigirl soon.
Yesssss
Heart saved. 🙂 Really freaking hope Amazigirl makes it out alright, though.
Nope. Danny is kind of a dope, Amazi-Girl is a dangerously unstable disaster waiting to happen.
Huh. I didn’t expect the very first post here to be Danny hating. Honestly he is doing the right thing and not when it is easy to do but when it is really hard. What, no credit for that?
No one gives credit to the people who try to disarm timebombs for doing so, but they are happy to criticize and blame when they fail at their attempt and something blows up.
Hmmm… I guess it depends on what you’re looking for.
Want a libido you have to compete to keep up with that is up for all manner of weird experimentation like 69’ing off rappelling gear outside of dorm windows in the middle of the night out in the open, but comes with an overloaded side of undiagnosed, untreated, REFINED mental and emotional problems? Sure. AmaziGirl is your prime option…. Nevermind she’s the ‘crazy’ that the whole “Don’t stick your dick in crazy” phrase was created for. She’s not just going to flip over a table or beat the shit out of a violent abuser who deserves it. Not anymore, anyway.
Want a genuinely caring, fairly normal, intelligent, safe, and considerate personality that has the character flaws of being oblivious, a pushover, and screwing up royally on accident? Danny would be the better option. He might latch on like a puppy and let himself get browbeaten by parents that judge him for the ‘quality’ of girl he chooses to date but otherwise consider him a fuckup, but at least you don’t have to worry about him breaking a table leg off and beating you to death with it because you’re associating with someone he doesn’t like.
Of the two, I would choose Danny, because I guess crazy can be ‘fun’ in the short term, but I value not having to fear getting stabbed in my sleep.
…I wouldn’t.
This sounds really fucked up, but I really hope Amber gets a dose of incredibly harsh reality soon.
or therapy
No, everybody needs therapy, but this is a comic about college students making the WRONG decisions, for our entertainment!
*also to “push Willis’s agenda”, if you saw that Tumblr post*
Damn social buttice warrior agendas being shoved down our… up our… one sec, lemme figure out the logistics of this one.
What post?
Something something pleb
http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/143405814917/its-always-kind-of-delightful-to-discover-the
Yeah, but I’m pretty sure that agenda doesn’t include “abuse victims are dangerous monsters who can’t be trusted in relationships and probably needed to be locked up”, so I suspect that somehow Amber is actually going to recover from this. Probably before getting much worse than she is now.
Not every character is a synecdoche of their “status”. Sarah doesn’t represent all black people, Ethan doesn’t represent all gay men, Amber shouldn’t be treated as a moral example of trauma victims.
Even if she doesn’t recover, she’s an individual. Extracting a meaning for all victims doesn’t make sense.
No, it doesn’t. Except when it does.
Regardless, I’m sure Willis doesn’t intend that meaning. And I really doubt Willis is going to take that path.
Anymore than he made Becky into a liar making up stories about her caring and concerned father – which was an actual theory posted here by some commenter. Which also wouldn’t have been a representation of all lesbians. Except if it was.
Because Willis does have an agenda. Which is fine by me. I largely agree with his agenda. But it does mean that he’s making larger points than just individual characters.
To bolster your point, all one has to do is look at the comments. While each character may not necessarily or perfectly represent any group they’re a part of, nor be meant to, the conversations here are absolutely representative of how people regard similar individuals, or individuals in similar situations, outside the comic.
Willis doesn’t have to have a message or agenda in his comic per se, but can achieve his goals by directing the conversation through what topics he covers, which characters he uses, and how he frames the situations, as well as comment moderation. I generally agree with his apparent goals, but sometimes this community seems to forget that people who can relate with characters in the story are also reading and can relate comments about characters and context to themselves and their own. Particularly here with Amber, it’s not always pleasant.
I’m assuming the incredibly harsh reality will LEAD to therapy. (But same, to both counts.)
Yeah, but let’s just hope it won’t lead to physical therapy, which could very well happen.
She really doesn’t seem like the kind to get that therapy until reality smacks her down so hard she has literally no choice
That’s what I’m getting out. When reality says, “No, what you’re doing is wrong” and she’s forced to go is when my icky feelings about Amber will go away. I was a lot like her solving my abuse (not to the point of maksed herosim, but I had a LOT of anger I took out on people i percived slighted me or my friends.) and it wasnt until i got the shit beat out of me that I got to therapy. Everyone has different “rock bottoms”. I assure you that therapy wouldnt have worked for me before that event, since I thought I was invincible.
Agreed. Honestly, she needs a trip to the hospital
Damn you Willis, why must you toy with my emotions so?!
She’s gotten plenty of that already. That’s the problem.
You see a lack of harshness in her life? Like her encounter with her father maybe? Or nearly dying last week? More pain will just confirm her current course.
Losing Danny will lead to her doubling down not changing.
ah, I think I should have been clearer. To preface, I made a comment a few above yours. “That’s what I’m getting out. When reality says, “No, what you’re doing is wrong” and she’s forced to go is when my icky feelings about Amber will go away. I was a lot like her solving my abuse (not to the point of maksed herosim, but I had a LOT of anger I took out on people i percived slighted me or my friends.) and it wasnt until i got the shit beat out of me that I got to therapy. Everyone has different “rock bottoms”. I assure you that therapy wouldnt have worked for me before that event, since I thought I was invincible.”
By “Harsh Reality” I mean that she gets in trouble for what she’s been doing. Police, the hospital, and accident- any catastrophic event that gets her forced to come face to face with her unhealthy coping mechanisms and how they affect other people. Amber isn’t the type to go into therapy alone, so I hope that a responsible and yet authorative adullt puts a stop to this. Like.. I know this is a comic and she’ll probably come to that conclusion herself after she like, gets her pop in jail or something but I just hope this isn’t going to be a permanent facet of Amber.
It gives me mixed feelings, it does.
She needs stability and security if she’s going to recover. Her problem is harsh, traumatic events and abuse, not a lack of them and you don’t let go of coping mechanisms when you’re still being bombarded or feel lost and alone.
AMBER YER FUCKIN’ UP BIG TIME
Five bucks says Amazi-Girl goes after Sal…and gets the ever-loving shit kicked out of her…
If Amazi-Girl goes after Sal, a lot of people on campus going “OH MAN AMAZI-GIRL’S SO COOL AND IT’S IMPORTANT SHE EXISTS” would quickly go “OH SHIT SHE’S A DANGEROUS BASTARD WHY DID NOBODY STOP HER?” and I will laugh like a drunk Skeletor
Drunken Skeletor laughter is something i didn’t know I needed until now.
I really hope you’re right, because Amazi-girl has a lot of currency among the students, but Sal is just a random black girl, and I know what I expect (Although randoms in DoA are mercifully not horrible compared to randoms in the real world)
Amber has martial arts training.
Sal has survived five years of Catholic boarding school.
Well, it didn’t end in physical violence like I was afraid of, so yay?
Kindra – the day ain’t over… lots of time for physical violence.
I just hope she doesn’t costume up and go looking for a “wrong” to be righted – and maybe get her ass seriously kicked in the process.
Unfortunately, you’re probably right about that. I hope that she doesn’t go that far, but… yeah, she’s probably itching for a fight now.
Amazi-Girl has been stalking from the rooftops for hours. Sal walks out of another building, and doesn’t hold the door for someone following a few steps behind her. Truth and Justice can finally be served.
Dunno if she’ll lose the fight, but I’m sure she wants to go find one now. The question will be, in her current state, is she actually going to find a villain by anybody else’s perspective?
Hooray for small mercies!
and that went about as well as everyone thought it would. high fives all around for no one getting punched and/or stabbed.
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
This isn’t an official break-up, right guys?
Looks pretty official to me. Anticipating Amber-downward-spiral-times incoming.
Ehhhh, in real terms, no. She’s mad right now. She reserves the right to say later “holy shit I was wrong”.
Realtalk, the only time ‘over’ was actually ‘over’ so far was Joyce/Ethan. And that was doooooooooooooomed unless Joyce discovered she was anti-joyce (Is that gender-swapped Joyce? gender-swapped Joyce, at any rate.)
Yeah, they might be over. But there’s really no reason to be this quick to be sure.
“Don’t touch me. Not ever again,” sounds pretty breaking-up to me.
That’s not breaking up, that’s dashing to pieces =p
And without a single engraved flaming skull. Kids today.
Yeah, they do not know how relationships work anymore.
Good gracious I hope so.
Hey, at least it’s only April 28th, and not Valentine’s Day, though
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/reassess/
If it isn’t a final breakup I really hope Danny doesn’t learn the wrong lesson here. Being “not-buckling” Danny is a healthy development for him, but if he thinks that will cause Amber to dump him again in the future he could revert to Doormat Danny.
He’s liable to come to the same conclusion anyway, but in any future dealings with Amber it would probably count double.
I think Danny knows he’s right, with the way he talks about how he loves buckling. He would much rather be told he’s wrong and that Amber is definitely completely healthy, but he knows that’s not the case, and he needs to push it.
Time for EthanXDanny slipshine!
…Too soon?
Not soon enough.
totally agree about not soon enough
I’ve been waiting
We’ve all been.
It’s never too soon
NOPE!
If Ethan and Danny do hook up and if Amber found out, we are going to see some epic reaction faces.
Oh yeah, that’s gonna be hella fun. Her suffering will be exquisite (Probably).
yes
I came here to ask “Whelp, he’s single now right? That means he and Ethan can hook up now right?”
If you just look at personality and character, and leave all gender and sexuality identity or concerns out, Ethan is a far superior choice.
If you put all those things back in, Ethan is a far superior choice.
Even if Danny was as straight as a pole Ethan would still be a preferable choice.
Yeah and if you looked at from the perspective of what is the single thing we could do that would most hurt and further screw up this person we both care about – that would also be Danny and Ethan hooking up.
Alright, maybe Danny and Sal hooking up, but it’s a close call.
I honestly can’t see either of them going for it. At least not right away. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen. It’s been teased enough and maybe Willis can pull it off and make it seem natural, but I’m not convinced.
three-way?
YES. A Danny-Meat Sandwhich with Ethan on one end and Sal on the other. On Ambers bed would be the most horrible but fairly unrealistic option, so lets say Amazi-girl goes stalking and see’s something she really doesn’t want to.
No. In Danny’s room with the door left unlocked (and unsocked) in the heat of the moment. Amber comes looking for Danny to apologize and reconcile.
I think Ethan cares about Amber too much to play the vulture.
Ethan is a gay man who doesn’t really act on that, who will suddenly have a guy who’s single and interested at his disposal. He won’t be thinking with his brain or his conscience.
He’ll be thinking with his penis.
Welp that ship sunk.
That ship snapped in two.
cue up Florence & the Machine
And oh my love remind me, what was it that I did?
Did I drink too much?
Am I losing touch?
Did I build this ship to wreck?
It sunk faster than the Titanic.(too soon?)
It’s an impressive feat when your relationship makes Billie/Ruth seem tame by comparison.
It’s not as messed up as Joyce/Ethan, but it’s a solid second place.
Oh it is most definitely more messed up than Joyce/Ethan.
Confirmed for having sunk harder than the USS Arizona.
(Or the IJN Taiho if you’re a history buff.)
I think HMS Hood would be better allegory for this shipwreck due to the mouse-over text.
Gordon Lightfoot is currently writing “The Wreck of the ‘MaziGirl-Danny'”.
I don’t even ship it, at all, but it’s really too soon to be sure. Characters backpedal frequently.
But it’s within the realm of possibility.
Next: To prove how much Danny isn’t buckling, his pants fall down.
Well you’re supposed to buckle your belt.
Ethan blushes then.
Ahahaha
Wow… I think… Danny didn’t pull a Danny… and still fucked up…
I dunno, I think Amber is the one who fornicated up in this instance.
Amber isn’t there, AG did the fornicating up.
AG is Amber. She tries to make them into separate entities, but at the end of the day, Amber is still responsible for her actions, and therefore is the one who intercoursed up.
Yup! That compartmentalizing ain’t healthy.
For once, he didn’t fuck up. He just thinks he did because he’s so used to pulling a Danny her leaving upset and dumping him, he assumes it’s a Danny situation.
Yeah, that’s one of the really sad parts of this. He didn’t fuck up. He handled it about as well as he could. But since he put himself out of his comfort zone and tried something he usually wouldn’t and it went bad, he’ll probably interpret this as proof that he only has value as a doormat.
And if that’s where things go, fudge Amazi-girl for adding more jet fuel to that particular fire.
The fucking up part of this is on Amber. Given all of the shitty options for this shitty situation, I think Danny said the right thing this strip, and it’s Amber who is Ambering it up. (Ambing?)
As much as I enjoy ragging on Danny, I can’t do it with good conscience in this case. ‘Sides, it’s on Amber/AG this time around.
This woman needs help. Now.
She needed help 2 chapters ago
She needed help long ago.
If anyone is to blame for the mess she’s in, that’s Blaine. Speaking of him, is he still in the hospital after the meeting with Amazi-Girl?
That someone is to blame for the fact that she needs help doesn’t change that she really needs help!
Hmm…that was a couple weeks ago, so, unless she hurt him a lot worse than it sounded (he was able to make a false report about it, and all), not likely.
Taking into effect time differential, she needed help sometime in the 1800’s.
She needed help before the story even began. We, the audience, only started seeing how much a few chapters ago.
*plays Phil Collins’ “Take A Look At Me Now (Against All Odds)” on the hacked Muzak*
[sneaks in and replaces it with this]
Viva la revolucion
(Was I was setting that up with this two days ago? Yes, yes I was.)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand……..Dumped.
How could Danny get dumped by someone who isn’t dating him?
amber didn’t dump danny. amazi-girl, who was dating danny prior to this strip, did.
That actually went far better than expected
It’s not over yet. Amber’s going to have to vent her anger at something.
I could imagine her going after Sal for ‘ruining Amber’s relationship with Danny’, this time completely unprovoked.
There was a preview panel of Dorothy with Amazi-girl… I’m guessing she might stumble upon it, and that’s when her hero worship will start to crumble as well.
To quote Amber, “the day is still young”
Geez, where were your expectations, a Mortal Kombat-style Fatality?
Well, dumped is better than dumped and bludgeoned, right?
she wasn’t really going to listen T.T
She had an internal script. He could either join her delusions or she could do what she did, interpreting each attempt to reach out and reason as a personal attack.
And I’m most worried about what this means in the future when the PTSD fades a little in intensity.
After all… “Amazi-girl needs to be consistent”.
Amazi-Girl is immune to reality.
This outcome was inevitable unless he played along with her internal narrative, maybe by saying he was gathering information on Sal for her or something like that. For Amber to cope with her PTSD, Amazi-Girl must exist. For Amazi-Girl to exist, Sal must be pure evil.
Dang it, Amber.
I think Danny needs you a lot less than you need him. In that he needs you negative amounts. He would benefit from a lack of you.
Willis needs to add a way to like comments
What a crazy lady.
Yeah but we love her anyway…well I do.
Given how much she’s channeled my ex in the last handful of strips, I have so many complicated feelings about her right now.
Funny, that’s who she reminded me of too. Of my ex, that is. Also, Danny reminded me of me at the time.
I will repeat what I said yesterday, in case you missed it. Please do not use the word “crazy” to describe the mentally ill. It has a really bad history of being used against us, as a way to ridicule us. Some in the mentally ill community consider it a taboo word entirely. But all I am asking is that you don’t use it to describe people with mental illnesses.
It would be one thing if you were making some sort of joke with a good message. But you’re just making fun of her for having a mental illness. Please stop.
She is acting irrational, rude and dresses up in a suit to fight crime. She is “crazy”.
…and in 20yrs I’m sure “mentally ill” will be the new “crazy”, because no matter what you call it, stigma exists and referring to people as ‘crazy’ or ‘mentally ill’ or whichever term we decide is best for it will still be used as ridicule. I’m sure we’ll have a new non-taboo phrase by then, though, so we can continue building the vocab count of English slang. Just as ‘stupid’, ‘idiot’, and ‘moron’ used to be the medical terms until we started this same cycle with them. Now, people still use those words and we have new medical terms…which are also being adopted by everyone else.
OR we could use words to refer to the things they mean, and look at what people are *actually* saying to figure out if they’re being jerkholes or not. In this case, the person simply stated that Amber is crazy. How is that ‘making fun of her for having a mental illness’? It’s stating that she DOES have one, or at least that she acts like someone who is mentally ill. The only way that’s ‘making fun’ of her is if you start with the premise that mental illness is a Bad Thing, and saying she has one is an insult…in which case, the negative context is coming from you.
Because mentally ill is descriptive, crazy is a slur. You’re right, you could use actual descriptive words. And descriptive words here include “shitty coping mechanisms for trauma,” “violent,” and “deeply in need of help.” “Crazy” not only is a slur, it doesn’t clearly communicate any of that.
But “Don’t stick your dick in mentally unbalanced” — lacks something.
We needz our slurs.
No, we don’t. “Don’t sleep with people if you think they’re too unstable for you”.
Jesus Christ on a fucking pogo stick, your laziness with words is not sufficient cause to throw slurs around.
Oh hey, a prescient person who isn’t too busy bilking vegas and/or stockbrokers.
In seriousness, maybe. But you know, that’s 20 years from now. Right here, right now, crazy is a slur. If you aren’t taking it back personally, stay the fuck away from it.
Supporting and enabling aren’t the same thing, Amber. geez
Damn. Being Immune to Criticism sets you up for some bad shit, who knew
Okay, so this has to be the moment when Sal puts it all together, right?
Looks like Sal finished her cigarette and left.
Oh, damn, you’re right, I missed that, I assumed she was standing off screen.
Danny and his girlfriend were clearly having a bad moment, makes sense to give them some privacy.
Except that Sal thought that Danny was dating Amazi-Girl. So she just stayed out of presumably two friends having an argument.
Same though, she would have had no business butting in anyway.
She’s completely oblivious to the blood feud she’s involved in.
And now that makes me think Amber is tilting at windmills.
who’s dulcinea in this situation, danny?
Mayhap, Ethan?
Danny has clearly been Sancho Panza, along for the ride. Dulcinea… probably justice itself, which she thinks she serves through her actions, but which is entirely unrelated both to her motives and to what she actually accomplishes through her vigilante activities.
Who would she be trying to save from danger. but isn’t in any actual danger? Well, if Blaine is out of the picture, is it possible AmaziGirl is trying to save Amber, who thus doesn’t need it anymore, at least the kind of help that AmaziGirl can give?
oh Amber, falling directly at the foot of the tree.
Her track record’s a lot better than Blaine’s so far.
But that’s the problem with bullying and toxic environments; it’s way too easy to internalize abusive behaviors as a coping mechanism, and find yourself exhibiting the same behavior in the future when you’re in need of an outlet. 🙁
Danny you really haft to read the mood and realize when there is shit going on, how can you not tell if there is obvious beef going on between Amber and Sal.
I think he pretty much handled it the best way he could. I mean once Amber saw Danny talking to Sal the conversation was pretty much going to torpedo.
Turbo torpedo
She’s gonna wreck it?
But her favorite ninja turtle is Donny, not Ralph
I thought it was Michelangelo
I think I missed a reference…
There’s a lot that’s been Danny’s fault. This? Not his fault.
Not saying it because there was no way of avoiding it when she saw Sal and him.
Just saying he could have picked up on a couple things,” the second worst thing she’s done to me,” come on what else do you need?
He probably did pick up on that there was some kind of something between them, but I don’t think it took precedence compared to the somewhat suicidal sounding statement that someone saving your life was one of the worst things they’ve ever done to you. They didn’t even have time to get to that before Amber flipped her shit and peaced out. (Nor did she ever say who Sal was or what she was supposed to have done)
I don’t think he expected the conversation to end so abruptly and finally before he got a chance to get back around to that. Her not being happy her life was saved and saying the day was still young led him to address what he thought was more pressing. Remember, this is out of the blue, and he is not a mental health professional or anything. He’s flustered and shocked that what Sal said actually happened.
Because it’s entirely one sided. Sal never reacts to Amber, she literally doesn’t know who she is.
So what he just thought she was jealous?
If you read back, this is the first time she’s actually confronted him about Sal in any way. The other times, Amber/Amazigirl was either already upset about something and Danny thought it was *him* she was reacting to, Danny didn’t see her approaching, or Danny just plain wasn’t there (as with the laundry and car chase incidents). There really wasn’t much info that would cause a sane person in Danny’s position to jump to the conclusion that “Amber doesn’t like my friend Sal for some strange reason”.
He’s not buckling! He’s doing the exact opposite! Look at how- oh, Danny is self-aware enough to realize that he loves to back down, and that listening to Amber would be just that. Nice! Let’s hope he doesn’t ruin his awesome streak by taking his frustrations with Amber out on Sal.
Yeah, his dialog in the last panel was throwing me off.
Oh no worries that’s probably what Ethan will be for, not Sal.
Hooray for no violence.
Now, as someone said upthread, time for Ethan + Danny super-fun-happy-times!
That would the absolute worst thing to happen right now. How would Amber take it? amazi-girl?
How much guilt do you think Danny would have going with Ambers friend, how about how Ethan would feel doing that to Amber?
Give it some time and maybe later but anytime soon would be horribly mean and cruel
Yeah, Ethan and Danny may happen, but for it to not go down in flames, Danny will need to spend at least a little time not in a relationship so he can start building a him that is not just about sacrificing his self to support someone more accomplished, Ethan and Danny will need some time in open communication about their feelings, and they’d both need time to stop just worrying about Amber all the time or feeling like they’d be doing her a wrong.
So… couple of years our time, prolly.
Goddammit
Yeah pretty much.
Um, that could have potentially gone worse….maybe. Somewhat.
Sal comes up. “Wanna have fun in my room”, she says, with Amber hearing her.
Life in the hoodies is hard, yo.
Damn it Amber, you need help.
Amber, you don’t deserve Danny. I just hope he realizes that.
So, Ruth’s new name for Danny is gonna be got-dumped-twice-guy? Ouch.
Amber, Danny, I hope both of you find peace. No peace for you Amazi-Girl. I hope you stop existing and leave Amber alone.
…This hits really close to home. I had a friend of eight years do this to me several times, only to guilt trip me every time I actually stood up for my case and didn’t overflow with 100% sympathy for her situation and only hers.
That sounds kinda like it might be a minor-to-moderate case of emotional abuse. It’s a real thing.
“After listening for almost twenty-five years to the stories my patients tell me about sociopaths who have invaded and injured their lives, when I am asked, “How can I tell whom not to trust?” the answer I give usually surprises people. The natural expectation is that I will describe some sinister-sounding detail of behavior or snippet of body language or threatening use of language that is the subtle giveaway. Instead, I take people aback by assuring them that the tip-off is none of these things, for none of these things is reliably present. Rather, the best clue is, of all things, the pity play. The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness. It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.”
― Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door
Danny’s right, he’s not buckling, except it’s Amber he’s not buckling too. He’s standing up for himself, and I’m really glad to see that. Even if it doesn’t give Amber the wake-up call she needs right at this moment, it’s important for Danny to not back down on this one.
You could always argue he’s just not buckling a second time. He was pretty firmly with Amber on all this until Sal guilt-tripped him.
I disagree on this point.
He was clearly not decided on what he was going to do until Amber made out that Sal saving her life was this horrible thing. Heck, he was pretty clearly signalling to Sal that he wasn’t just going to take her word for it right before Amber showed up and went ballistic.
He’s not confronting Amber about this because someone pushed him into this. He’s doing this because he saw that Sal had a point that he agreed with, and that he felt he had to do this because he cares about Amber.
It is unfortunate that often agreement, or even simply changing ones mind is conflated with submission. Let us not connect the two in this case where it seems not to have happened.
Well this went better than I expected. I figured there’d be physical violence.
Just wait
You have to wait for the other shoe to drop.
Danny loaned the other shoes to Walky though
This… is just too damn real, I love it, but shit man… the sad reality of self destructive behaviour is…
Damn you Willis.
Hang in there Danny! You’re finally doing the right thing!
Man, that Slipshine timing was great.
Aye. It’s so weird reading what’s happening right now and then looking to my left and seeing the Slipshine ad for those two.
It’s like he planned it or something.
That’s just what I was thinking.
What the fuck does Amber even think Danny did?
Talked to Sal, and had Sal tell him that… I don’t know, that Amazi-Girl is awful or something? He talked to her archnemesis and that’s automatically corrupted him and he’s too weak-willed to fight off Sal’s mind control?
Seriously, Amber has kind of failed to iterate what the actual problem is.
I imagine she has on some subconscious level. But she can’t or won’t face it. Because she can’t let Amazi-girl fail. Except that in this case, she has to crumble before she can heal again.
He told her to take a break from being Amazi-Girl, which, to Amber, feels like kicking her only crutch out from under her. (The crutch is made of rotted wood, but Amber doesn’t know that.)
Or, rather, he suggested that she might consider it. He didn’t even tell her to, but it makes sad sense that she jumped to the most threatening possible conclusion. Amazi-Girl has never been good at spotting nuances, and the black-and-white thinking is super-extra strong today.
Yea, its pretty sad. He didn’t even say to get rid of Amazi-Girl or anything, just take time to be Amber for a bit…
What everyone else has said already, but keep in mind that this is an overly black-and-white pseudo-version of reality that Amber/AG has created in order to be able to cope. Of course it won’t reflect actual reality at all.
He continued to interact with Sal, a person Amber doesn’t like due to that service-station robbery Sal committed years ago, so she’s dumped him.
And Amber STILL never explained that to him!! Smh…
In reality, what the others said.
How she’s prolly interpreting it to justify her anger and her feeling of moral righteousness:
Sal, my arch-nemesis who saved my life just to get in my head and get me to doubt my mission, then proceeded to seek out my man, the person who could have saved the broken Amber I am protecting, in order to poison his mind with trickery and lies.
And my boyfriend, being an idiot who can’t even follow simple instruction in knowing what is so obvious to me, fell for her poisoned words, buckling to her sorcerous ways in order to turn traitor on me and betray Amber and seek to destroy the paragon of justice that protects her.
Because of this betrayal, and not because his good points struck a nerve (because that would not be something that a paragon of justice who is above emotions would experience), it is necessary for me to let him go before he betrays me and her further and allows the nefarious Sal to be uncountered and unstopped.
The mission must survive, no matter what.
Cause, let’s be frank, in AG’s world, she’s never wrong or mistaken and she’s never inconsistent or erratic. And someone failing to see her side has chosen to be her enemy. And that here is starting to pull away from reality station before all the passengers have gotten off.
You put “mission” and “frank” in close proximity, and I immediately thought of another (in)famous comic-book vigilante. *wince*
Its kind of ironic, that Amazi-Girl fights anyone she sees as breaking the rules. But she uses violence and vigilante justice which.. Is kinda illegal and hypocritical, when one thinks about it.
Yeah, we don’t need a Mr. Castle on this campus.
He sided against her, with the person she sees as her enemy, and tried to get her to stop being Amazi-Girl. And she mistakenly thinks she needs Amazi-Girl more than she needs Danny or anyone else who cares for her.
She’s wrong to react this way. But he did do pretty much what she thinks he did. She’s just wrong about it being a bad thing.
I have been the biggest champion for Amazi-girl. And I still basically support her superheroism (except in cases where she is triggered). But she does need to stop switching to Amazi-girl to avoid dealing with her problems. And the only way to do that is to stop being Amazi-girl altogether for a while.
She needs to commit to not using her, so she can learn to cope with her issues. As I’ve said before, my hope is that we can wind up with an Amazi-girl who can do the good AG did without having all the drawbacks. But that can only happen if Amber figures it out.
Fortunately, a comic preview gives me hope on that front.
I don’t think that’s right. She needs to stop using AG to avoid dealing with her problems, but she can’t just stop cold. She doesn’t have alternate coping strategies. And from what little I understand, repressing alters isn’t a healthy approach at the best of times.
Basically, she needs therapy and should be a long term gradual project.
I do think she might be better off actually stopping the casual, heroic use of Amazi-Girl, even if she keeps her as a coping mechanism for the moment. I think that’s feeding into the whole “Amazi-Girl is the best, Amber is pathetic” thing she’s got going. I get the feeling Amazi-girl has been out and open far more on campus than before and that’s led to her being much stronger as a persona than she was.
In the short run, I think she actually needs to find a way to confront Sal and somehow come to terms with her, since that’s her current trigger. I don’t know how that’s going to happen, but it seems to be where the story’s heading. Unless it really is just “Amber is crazy and bad”, but I don’t think that’s it.
In the long run, I would like to see a more integrated Amazi-Girl and I think we’re likely to go there, rather than have a healthy Amber without her. If for no other reason than to let Willis draw action scenes.:)
Danny needs to transfer out. Get your ass to Perdue!
Danny needs to go to a chicken company?
-signed, a Purdue graduate
Amber might want to get her costume checked for mysterious black goo right about now.
Can’t get rid of her dad’s genes with loud sounds.
No, but we can still try!
What’s the bet that Willis planning releasing the DannyxAmazigirl pornagraphique this week on purpose with their impending break-up?
Because he wanted to put people off the couple and reduce sales?
I figure he knew that this was the last chance to get that grapple hook scene out before AmberxDanny ceased being a thing.
I’m proud of Danny. <3
And now he's free for Ethan!
… Too soon?
Not soon enough
Both.
Nice going Sal, you’ve ruined everything!
And she didn’t even try to do it! That’s how cool she is.
Nice going Sal, you ruined the toxic thing!
Called it.
Danny’s not wrong, this isn’t buckling. But this is a breakup. What is he supposed to do? Insist they’re still together? He’s got no right to her business now.
It’s over. It’s just over. Very interesting conundrum, although simply wrought.
He could report her vigilantism to the police. There probably won’t be enough proof unless he has some photos for an arrest or forced therapy, but I’m sure they’d love a lead on the person who could have easily caused a massive pileup
He could report it to her Mom.
I wonder if her Mom ever had a clue that anything was wrong with Amber. From what little we’ve seen, Ethan has been more of a parent to Amber than either of her real parents.
Her mom managed to extract her from an abusive environment apparently entirely on her own and has raised her solo ever since I’d say she’s done the best she could be expected to given the situation.
Recover, emotionally, mourn what they had. Try and resist the urge to go running back to her in full apology and willing to throw away all his dignity for just a little more time.
Plus, in a comic-book theoretical sense, it was AmaziGirl that did the breaking up, not Amber. So if he can come by later when Amber is dominant, maybe he can…something? I’m tired, and can’t come up with a coherent plan to help improve Amber’s state of mind.
Oh man. I can actually see ‘you broke up with Amazigirl, not me’ happening, possibly leading to a more detailed confrontation.
Well of course Amber didn’t break up with him. Amber wasn’t dating him. You’re just being silly.
Hey, now that he and Amazi-Girl have broken up, maybe he can ask Amber out.
I was thinking ‘you broke up with her, you don’t have to avoid all girls’ or ‘… you didn’t stop being -my- friend’ as the implication if she actually considered that. But originally I wanted it to match the ‘you’re dating amazigirl’ fight in that perfect girl.
There’s sufficient bleed between the alters where I don’t think he can date Amber now. Be friends, maybe. And if he’s able to help Amber not be AmaizGirl, or redirect the Alter to something positive, maybe, if it’s good for both of them,restart the relationship.
Most likely, IMO, is something like Amber awkwardly saying, “I’m not supposed to/allowed to talk to you.”
🙁
And that’s when things get scary. Almost seems like a hop, skip, and a jump to ‘Joker’ territory there then.
Well, just because she doesn’t want to be a couple anymore doesn’t mean Dan has to automatically cut all his ties to her. He obviously is still going to care about her even if SHE doesn’t even care about herself, and he’s going to try to help her regardless of if it leads to un-breaking-up.
If everyone just went away when a mentally unstable person said “go away” the suicide rate would be SO much higher than it is today.
Is “sympathetic frustration” a thing? Because that’s what I’m feeling right now. (Or is it frustrated sympathy?)
Like, Amber, I feel for you loads, I know a lot of this comes from Blaine’s abuse (and here I would like to reiterate yesterday’s sentiment of FUCK BLAINE) and the lasting emotional scars, but god fucking damn it do you have a messed up view on everything and you are doing some serious hurt to yourself and others.
Hurry Danny, go process this with Ethan, the one person who has specific insight and also who you have specifically in sight.
And right above this break-up is the specific panel in which Ethan and Danny do the fall-blush thing.
Good.
There’s caring, there’s supporting, and there’s knowing when to pull the black-and-yellow striped handle.
And if you don’t believe me, Danny, believe my avatar.
🙁 does he even realize he wasn’t talking to amber just now? at all? and what of amber once she comes around? will she realize how destructive amazi-girl can be? and why do i keep reading these right before bed and then going to sleep sad??
He’s never quite understood that particular divide.
as far as I can tell, as Solenoid said, he thinks it’s just a secret identity, a “playing-pretend,” not an actual *alter* as with MPD (for lack of a better diagnosis/term).
He doesn’t realize the extent of the psychology in Amber/AG AT ALL.
I wonder if this is actually all Blaine’s abuse. Is it possibly Amber and she both have a mental illness? One which leads to dramatic mood swings they have no control over? Undiagnosed medical condition could explain a lot–and ironically make Blaine more sympathetic perhaps. Imagine if he got himself treatment in the hospital.
Yes. This is very much because of the shape and frequency of Blaine’s abuse. She didn’t just snap up this “my way or the highway” paranoid delusional from the ether, she was carefully taught that this is how couples fight, that this is normal behavior, and that showing weakness and empathy and seeing the other’s viewpoint is a great way to be emotionally ripped apart again.
Blaine is the sick toxin that is at the heart of this whole tragedy and it reveals the scars that abusive parents leave on their kids even long after their child has finally escaped.
That all being said, based on what others have confirmed for me, she’s still engaging in abusive behaviors against Danny and the fact that we know the origin of them and how little Amber can stop them, doesn’t make those behaviors any less painful or harmful to have happened to Danny here today.
Yes, Cerberus is right on target here with the results of abusive parents. I never had a situation like younger Amber’s confrontation with Sal, but I lived with my abusive mother until eighteen and am still unfortunately in contact with her. I have a lot of problems and I’ve found so much of it traces back to my mother. I get so angry and upset with Amber, because even though I sympathize with her situation so much, I wish she would just seek help.
And if Blaine had some problems of his own, I wouldn’t find him particularly more sympathetic. Maybe that’s also because of my own situation, my mother had a lot of her plate that shaped her to be that awful parent she was, but after all those years with her like that and her showing no remorse, I have no sympathy for it. And it doesn’t excuse it either way. Just the same that Amber’s problems don’t excuse how she’s mistreated Danny.
I agree. I grew up in an abusive home and was the family scapegoat. I decided as a young child that I would never hurt anyone the way I was hurt. I was also healthy enough to see that what my parents were doing was just goddamn wrong. I knew I need a shitload of help and I made sure I got it.
Abusers act just like Blaine and Amber, self righteous, never wrong, punitive, and vindictive. They will always try to place blame on somebody else. They don’t see any reason to get help because they are very skilled on dumping their shame on other people, especially any children in the family.
What gets me is that people are still sympathizing with Amber even though she is abusing Danny, and in fact, some expect Danny should have defused the situation “by asking the right questions.” Let me ask those of you who felt Danny could have gotten Amber to stop “by being more situationally aware,” how would you feel if Amber was abusing a child? Would you still feel sympathetic and understanding of her behavior? Would you blame the child for instigating the abuse and not being able to defuse the situation.
As much as I detest Blaine, he learned those behaviors as a kid also. And like most abused people, he passed them on. If Amber continues on her way, she will harden into someone just like Blaine.
And we all thought Mike was such a super-asshole back then, but it turned out he was right!
Eh, he was still kinda being a super asshole tbh.
I’ve been kind of assuming for a while that both Amber and Blaine share some occasionally-hereditary mental disorder. BPD could fit, perhaps? Or something entirely diffrent, idunno. I’m more of a diagnose-e than a diagnose-r, tbh.
That being said an undiagnosed mental disorder would not free either of them from accountability. Having an explanation is not the same as having an excuse. No matter what their respecive brain-chemistries and histories are like Blaine caused a huge amount of damage to Amber and that’s still on him. Similarly the current situation is on Amber.
Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to mark the death of the “Danny, Stop Danning It Up” meme. For lo, what hath transpired here was not in any way, shape or form the fault of Danny. Nay, it falleth all on Amber. Let us lay the “Danning It Up” meme to its eternal rest, and never mention it again. Amen.
…except in textbooks.
First the Leonardo Dicaprio Oscar meme and now this.
i always wondered how memes died. Now I’m witnessing it first hand.
How long do you think the “he finally won one” meme will stick around?
No idea. All I can is that he a href=”https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/tumblr_o2whjx7zro1v6pg78o1_1280.jpg?quality=80&w=635 ” rel=”nofollow”>caught them all.
“Sigh” https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/tumblr_o2whjx7zro1v6pg78o1_1280.jpg?quality=80&w=635
I fully support the death of Dannying it up
*Plays ‘Taps’
This is what it sounds like
when memes die
Now THAT’S too soon.
:'( I couldn’t help myself after reading that entire eulogy in the same style as the opening of Let’s Go Crazy
…
I’ll allow it.
I’m really hoping Ethan steps in soon to help Amber.
He can’t help her. Basically her friends are kids and are totally un-equipped to help her with her abuse issues/ Amber is seriously going to have to realize she is in trouble and get help on her own. It probably will take something awful to make her hit bottom and be willing to change.
Also, man… I ship Danny and Ethan but a lot of the comments here calling for him to immediately go hook up with him come across as really kind of gross and fetishistic.
It wouldn’t be good for either of them at this point.
have you met us!?
gross and fetishistic is our middle name!
butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts…
“I swear I do not know these people.”
butts butt butts butts butts….
You’re right. Even if it wasn’t gross or fetishistic (it is) Danny hasn’t spent any of his young adult life as a single guy. He needs some time to develop and grow as an individual before getting involved in another relationship.
you said what I said way more concisely. props.
Also, it is very ironic that you are advocating taking a break from dating while your avatar is the thirstiest character in the entire comic. I am chuckling now 🙂
Believe me, the irony of her character and her expression are not lost on me!
And being short-handed isn’t a straight positive. I’m glad you were able to go more in-depth and share your personal thoughts on the matter!
thanks :). I do think he has the compassion to be a good psychologist. They say a lot of people go into it at first to figure out their own issues
maybe. i would have wanted him to stay with Amber before this, but this (well, more the comments that explained why this was so abusive) is making me think that it would be better for him to end the relationship and let other people help her.
Honestly, he is way too defined by other people. He latches onto romantic ideals of being the good supportive bae, first with Dorothy, then with Amber. I think he needs to find some platonic friends and spend some time figuring out who he really is. Maybe he could be a psychologist?
Honestly, I came into this post ready to say that he should get together with Ethan eventually. But as I wrote, I realized what would be best for him would be taking a break from the dating scene altogether to figure out his identity.
I almost wrote a footnote after my *now kiss* wordplay type comment because of this exact sentiment :/
Their meet-cute was just the meet-cutey-est. Write Danny/Ethan anywhere on the gender/sexuality spectrum, what makes me go absolutely squee over their relationship is the slow burn of what’s going on in their heads/hearts rather than their pants. People who are good, who have bad stuff happen to them, who would be good for each other, getting together when it’s good for both of them, is just my shyptonite. I wouldn’t say it’s good for them now, but it’s fun to consider the possibilities in their future.
I like Danny and Amber together too fwiw, they have genuine chemistry, but the relationship is so unhealthy as it is now, with both cycling deeper into dysfunctional behaviors. Both deserve more health and happiness than they may be able to give to each other at this time in their lives.
TL;DR Not trying to fetishize, just tentatively excited for future possibilities? Because we haven’t been slapped yet with the reality that Danny/Ethan are both such sweeties that they would likely refrain from being together, to keep Amber from completely shattering.
The thing is that I’m not sure Ethan is attracted to Danny at all – he had a few flustered moments on their comic book outing, but I think it was more of the awkwardness of him not being fully out yet rather than to do with Danny himself.
And Ethan seems to be pretty much oblivious to any of Danny’s affections ever since that day. I think any attraction right now is pretty one-sided.
Danny honestly does strike as the perfect dude for Ethan. They’re already friends, they have similar interests, and they’re both in relatively the same stage where they’re trying to get a grip on their sexuality.
I don’t think Ethan’s attracted to him right now, nor would he make a move on Danny without Amber’s approval, though.
It seems like it would be a good real relationship. I’m not sure it’s a good story relationship. I could be wrong of course, but I just don’t see it leading anywhere interesting.
The sheer lack of any potential drama from that pairing, outside of Amber being treated as an obstacle because she’s not on board with it / Danny and Ethan not wanting to step on her toes, is part of why I didn’t think it would happen.
Like I mentioned below, if it does happen I just really don’t want it to be like Ethan/Manny in Shortpacked, where it was just “I met this nice guy offscreen and we’re dating and in love and we never have any problems.” I get that that’s what Ethan wants in a relationship, but it makes for really boring reading.
I totally agree on that. Great in real life or for a 1.8 hour rom-com happy ending, but this is DUMBING OF AGE! Sustained on pain.
Can I still keep this D/E 4 EVA pennant though? I’ll put it away when company comes over
We are only being fetishistic cause we wanna see these two dudes bang as quickly as possible.
Yeah, it’s been really awkward to read through the comments since we learned Danny was bi, because it was just an onslaught of “I can’t wait for Amber’s mental health to collapse so Danny can fuck the one other Queer dude in the entire universe.”
Which, I dunno, shipping’s fine and dandy and it’s not like this sequence didn’t also sour my opinion on Amber, but it was still cringy to go through whenever Danny appeared.
Ethan is going to have to break out twice the emergency hugs today.
I kinda wonder what would happen if she stormed off to go vent to Ethan, and then if he (though questioning what happened) actually took Danny’s side. Like
“Well how was he supposed to know about what happened with Sal years ago?” or “Wait you almost died?? Maybe you should take a break from this…”
Oh man that would be both amazing and uncomfortable af all at once.
Question is how much Ethan knows about Amber’s rage issues. He’s certainly seen it before (in the cafeteria). We just don’t know if he’s savvy enough to deal with them at this point.
Plus, it’s really not his job to… He’s barely more than a kid himself.
I really HOPE she goes to vent to Ethan – the way she has been keeping away from him doesn’t make it seem likely, and since she just broke up with the one person she usually could count on to be there for her… who is left for Amber to talk to?
Dina? Walky? Dorothy? …none of them know her nearly good enough to know just how bad her situation is and how desperately she needs help.
I’m kind of hoping for this to end with Sal taking down Amber, preferably in a way that causes people in DoA to vilify Amazigirl and call Sal a hero. Just cause a complete snap and forced therapy
Because fuck if we’re going to have a breakdown I want one that slaps reality into her so hard that she sees stars
Not stars, tiny Sals riding their motorcycles in a circle above her head. Make Chuck Jones proud!
Hell with Chuck Jones. I want a full-on Tex Avery-style disintegration.
Well a complete snap and forced therapy means something like involuntary confinement, which means she’s basically out of the comic indefinitely. Weeks/months of their time at least, which would be years of real time.
It also sets up the “abuse victims become monsters who need to be stopped by force” meme much harder than I think Willis will do.
She’s going to hit bottom, but pull herself out of it, with help and probably start getting therapy, but by her own choice. It’s got to be pretty soon too. She can’t go much farther without losing all reader sympathy.
As has been said, the day isn’t over yet.
Amber is going to hurt somebody (or herself) the first opportunity she gets. And it might just be Sal.
Danny did really well. I think he said the right things. She just doesn’t want to hear them. Not sure going to see Ethan this very minute is a great idea.
Anyone he goes to know just may be a target for Ambers rage.
So, uh, let’s see, that’s making her bad behavior and delusions into a wrong of “disloyalty” he’s committed, attacking him at weak points and gaslighting him about what he’s been doing (as he notes, he’s been doing the opposite of buckling on this and her demands were to buckle to her and that’s why she’s mad), using ultimatums and declaring things finished because he didn’t just shut up and follow her rules…
This feels like it’s abuse to me. Or at least aping its structure way too much for comfort.
And with this, she’s doubled down on delusion and her manufactured worldview, has convinced herself her “eternal nemesis” has cost her a cherished relationship who would have “save her” and has done her a great harm by saving her life, and has completely cut aside 1/2 of the remaining people trying to look out for her mental well-being and health.
All while pushing her alters further away from each other and continuing to poison the inflexibility of Amazi-girl.
I’ve often felt that she’s been making a lot of mistakes with her mental health, but at this point, she’s starting, or at least continuing down a much darker road than she’s ready for, where she becomes far more Blaine-like than she has ever wanted.
I’m of the mind Blaine and Toedad are different now. I think Blaine probably comes from a bad environment and may well have mental illness which needs to be treated (and has passed that down to his daughter). Toedad, I’m comfortable just thinking is a evil asshole.
I don’t think either of them are certifiable. People can be dicks without any help from their brain chemistry.
But if I did think one of them was mentally ill, it would have to be Toedad. Blaine is awful in a way that is scarily familiar, like an evil version of the dad that tries to help you grow up.
I can’t help but wonder.. Lets say Blaine did grow up in an abusive household, with a parent very much like himself now. Cycle of abuse, after all. People feel bad for and try to somewhat excuse Amber’s actions because she grew up in an abusive situation, but where is that line, to where she draws the same reactions as people have towards Blaine? I don’t want to see her reach it, but I’m afraid she’s going that direction.
protagonist-centered morality: The writer’s greatest friend, the analyzer’s archnemesis
In any case, she has the benefit of not being or having been responsible for a minor’s well-being. Unlike Blaine. Unlike Ross. Danny can walk off right now and never look back without anyone else needing to get involved. He won’t, of course, because his own quirks of personality (by which I mean, his treating relationships like the only lens he can see himself through) and the fact that this is Dumbing of Age, where dumb decisions are made. Nobody is truly stuck with Amber or Amazi-Girl, whichever of the two she’s being in a given moment.
Yeah, the fact that Blaine and Ross targeted their own children makes them extra-super evil with additional FUDGE YOU.
What Amber is doing here is bad and abusive, but she’s not up to Blaine level. If nothing else, she will never be able to hurt Danny as much as Blaine hurt her.
I am literally the worst person to draw this distinction as it may just be my own means of overly forgiving the instances of not okayness my ex did to me, but I feel the difference is in how Amber and Blaine go about their abuse.
Amber is consumed by it and does not choose it, it’s just the natural extension of her feeling trapped and lashing out at the person nearest while she’s triggered.
Blaine revels in it. He seeks out his victim after she has escaped from him and goes to elaborate ends to harm her more. He’s not someone who got carried away, he’s someone who has decided that this gets him what he wants (control) and is now addicted to that feeling and that’s a different and more dangerous sort of beast.
Though all that said, while Amber’s style of abuse may be more understandable and forgivable?, it’s still harmful to its target and leaves marks. And it can sometimes be harder to recognize and stuff because you can see how it’s not all the time and so you start to believe that if you can just not be in those extreme circumstances, maybe it’ll stop happening once and for all…
Yeah, sorry, prolly not the right one to be trying to sort all this out, but I think that’s the possibly thin and negligible difference between them as I see it.
But didn’t Amber revel in it too? She hunted down Sal and her friends and tried to pick that fight. Sal didn’t want to fight her, she just wanted to go about her own business in peace. I’m afraid she is getting addicted to that feeling of contol and righteousness. Plus, who says Blaine chooses it anymore than she? He could just be what she is on her way to becoming, like her now to the next degree, and was once just like her here. She is choosing Amazi-Girl after all, and the power trip it gives her.
I was more thinking with regards to Danny. She’s definitely Blaine-level hunt and harass with Sal.
Yeaaa hopefully Danny dodged that bullet. Because who knows, if they had dated for longer than two months tops with her in this emotional state.
Yes, she did.
A lot of it is also just that Blaine is older and far more set in his ways. Amber’s heading down a scary path, but she’s still young. She needs help, but she’s a lot more likely to be able to recover than Blaine is.
Lots of people are evil, and most of them have reasons. Blaine and Toedad were probably raised by people similar to them, and they were unable to break the cycle of abuse that they’re now perpetuating. Becky is doing some solid work to get away from what her dad does, but as of now Amber is falling into the same traps. To corroborate on what Cerb is saying above, Amber is abusing Danny in these strips. She gaslighted, gave ultimatums, undermined his confidence, the whole package. Let’s wait and hope for something to come along and help her realize what she’s becoming.
you are a very smart person. I just wanted you to know that 🙂
Thank you so much! I could say the same for you 🙂
I feel like this is an incorrect use of the term gaslighting. Amber’s not trying to manipulate Danny, she’s just been making genuine statements of belief. Gaslighting indicates conscious manipulation, to my mind, at least, and to the origin of the term.
I don’t know if gaslighting has to be conscious, but that last barb seemed pretty deliberate. She knows he is afraid of being seen as a pushover and weak, so by playing off that fear she is manipulating him (or trying to) into feeling like this is all his fault? Or just manipulating him into feeling badly about himself.
I don’t think that really counts as gaslighting, though. Not without diluting the definition.
The point is she believes (even though that belief is completely irrational) that he “buckled” to Sal’s evil attempt to get him to betray her.
Maybe, I dunno. I had a partner who did a lot of this style stuff to me when she was set off and feeling defensive and I haven’t been able to make heads or tails of whether or not that counted as gaslighting and that’s gotten me a bit scrambled on a lot of stuff, so who knows. I’m really not as confident about any of these calls as I am about other stuff and so I’m relying a lot on what others have confirmed or denied when I’ve asked them about it for whether or not I trust these inklings enough to share.
Fair enough. I’m not sure the term is exactly well-defined anyway, so I suppose you can call this dickering over terminology.
I mean it is a term that first came to the public lexicon from a movie so it’s not surprising it lacks like scientific precision.
Amber is about to fuck up somehow even more. Hopefully it isn’t to the degree where she needs to be hospitalized or arrested, but… idk.
…
Sexo loco time????
Danny and Ethan team up, with one goal, take down Amazi-Girl!
Hey! The PAYDAY Gang endorses Danny’s behavior. Add 12 experienced, battle-hardened heisters to that number.
Nope, no dating for Amazigirl! It cuts into her brooding time.
Danny there is no talking with words now, you must train in china to become the Iron Closed Hand so that you can defeat her in Living Combat. Then when you have her at your mercy spare her life and she will become your greatest ally.
That has to work because I read it in a book.
Does he join up with Jacob going under the name “Energy Fellow” and form the conflict-resolving team known as “Do-Gooders Seeking Work?“
that slipshine ad is getting more and more uncomfortable with every strip now
Wait ’till you see the end!
patreon bonus?
I agree its getting uncomfortable. I hope he goes after her.
you might be the only person here who thinks that, the rest either want him to get the fuck out of dodge or proclaim his love for Ethan.
Out of dodge seems to be the best camp for him to hang his flag for now.
RUN DANNY RUN!!!!
And one day, he just started running. First, he ran to the end of the street, then he ran to the edge of town, then he ran to the edge of the sea. And then, he turned around and ran some more. People kept asking him why he was running. But some things don’t have a reason. Some things don’t need a reason. He just felt like running.
Dara has already linked to “Tainted Love” above, but i find it appropriate to cite (parts of) the lyrics here:
Sometimes I feel I’ve got to
Run away
I’ve got to
Get away
From the pain you drive into the heart of me
And the love we share
Seems to go nowhere
I’ve lost my light
For I toss and turn I can’t sleep at night
Once I ran to you (I ran)
Now I run from you
This tainted love you’ve given
I give you all a boy could give you
Take my tears and that’s not nearly all
Tainted love
(Ooh) Tainted love
I mean I want him to go talk to SOMEBODY be it Ethan or Sal or even, god forbid, Joe.
¿Porqué no las dos?
would be cool to see some more poly representation. I find the dynamics of poly relationships endlessly fascinating, as well as adorable
I could get behind D/E/A in a poly relationship. Like, I have no idea how they’d get there as they’ve been written so far, but it’s interesting to think about. And produces d’awwws.
Danny/Ethan/Amber? Ok, I know I was the one to suggest a poly relationship, but that relationship would be a trainwreck
Shipwreck?
Get the fuck out of dodge and the fuck into Ethan
The other shoe just dropped.
I am having less and less hope for Amber/Amazi-girl surviving fall term.
Well, I’m thinking Amazi-girl should definetely die. But in order for that to happen Amber first has to realize she needs help.
I would love to see Sal actually confronting Amber herself. Amber’s been mentally and physically running from Sal since the holdup. See what happens when she’s forced to see that Sal isn’t literally Satan, just a human being who made incredibly poor life choices like everyone else.
I think that would end in the violent situation we all feared. And I’m more afraid for Sal, cos she wouldn’t want to fight Amber.
Worse than that. Sal can’t afford to fight Amber on campus. She’s got a record, and even if she’s not the aggressor, she’s a black girl with a criminal record fighting a white girl. Even her parents probably wouldn’t take her side, given her past.
Oh man, true… She would probably just try and walk away if it came to that, and who knows if Amber would let her. After all, she stabbed her once after she was already in handcuffs.
Especially her parents won’t take her side.
Clearly now Danny must become Amazi-Girl’s nemesis, in an attempt to make her confront herself and realize how wrong he is. And the best way will be for him to put on a cape and become a supervillain. Knocking down trash cans and the like.
…So… we can yet see Catwoman-Danny in canon?
May i just take a moment to say how utterly perfect your avatar’s expression is for the question you asked
Expression, or character?
Is it just me or is Danny’s dialogue in that last panel hard to parse? I don’t understand what he’s saying, what he’s trying to say, or if that’s at all connected to whatever he’s doing with his arm.
I think he’s saying that he usually buckles, i.e. goes along with other people’s opinions or demands, and that it’s unfair for Amber/AG to say he’s buckling now when what he’s actually doing is standing up to her because he’s concerned for her health and safety. Asserting that to her was hard and scary for him and he’s sad that the conversation didn’t go well, but he knows he did the right thing by voicing his concern.
Idk what the arm thing is about though, probably a gesture for emphasis/an attempt to get her to look back at him?
He’s basically saying that he would normally buckle/give in because he doesn’t like dealing with conflict, and that Amber can tell he actually isn’t buckling right now because he’s willingly making himself unhappy.
So, to parse out his actual sentences: “This is the opposite of buckling! [You can tell because] I love buckling! [But] Look at how unhappy I am! [Clearly I can’t be buckling, because if I was buckling, I would be happy!]”
Oh – and the arm-flailing is presumably just to reinforce the “Look at me!”
Is… waving such a weird gesture? Like frantically waving to try to get Amber to pay attention and listen to him?
Oddly enough, that was the only part I got at first.
I had to read it a couple times to figure it out too. Tori nailed it.
People yesterday were talking a lot about Sal and Amber having a lightsaber battle, but wouldn’t Danny be closer to Obi Wan in that situation? Sal barely knows who Amber is, Danny is the one who’s watching his friend fall to the dark side.
I really appreciate that this comic isn’t falling into the trope of “having dramatic/intense experiences together means a relationship is passionate and good.” There’s been a lot of sexy intensity between Danny and Amber/AG, but that doesn’t mean it was healthy or sustainable. It’s good to see that acknowledged.
tbh this went about as well as it possibly could have, from experience
Speaking of which *starts checking for hidden cameras and microphones*
Yeah.
They’re never going to be seeing each other again.
…. until Intro to Computer Science on Monday.
AWKWARD.
Except it’ll be Amber in class, who didn’t have this argument, and will be perfectly amicable. Danny, however, will be confused. If only he could see the tags.
Are we pretending Amber is at all capable of actually compartmentalizing Amber stuff and Amazi-Girl stuff?
Nah. He knows exactly who he’s talking with here. She starts off by telling him straight out she’s not Amber. Now, he did call her Amber after this, but I’m betting this is because he’s seeing AG as not terribly healthy at the moment, so he isn’t playing along.
Except he and AG had the argument because Amber fled when she saw him and Sal being friendly. At best he’ll be dealing with an Amber who’s still upset over that. At worst, AG will come out again and he’ll have to deal with her.
amber reminds me of someone, HMMMMMM http://sayahomu.tumblr.com/post/143568332734/a-caped-crusader-with-a-tendency-towards
I don’t know who that is.
This is why choosing when to bring stuff up is really, really important. Poking a psychological pressure point ain’t gonna be pretty.
In all fairness, what was Danny supposed to do? Amber hasn’t said one word to him about Sal, and he’s never seen how Amber reacts to Sal. Amber offered no explanations here, and while she’s certainly not obligated to tell Danny anything, she also doesn’t get any right to hold his lack of knowledge against him.
And really, when’s the right time to stop putting up with Amber’s increasingly strained fantasy in which she’s a crimefighter who’s always right and everyone she hates is a supervillain?
Well, she’s clearly upset. Maybe ask her what’s wrong first, if she needs to talk, instead of outright just jumping to “Hey, maybe give up your coping mechanism”.
As for when the right time is, maybe approach her about the topic at a time when she’s calm and collected? Discuss your concerns with her, rather than just jumping straight to “You should give it up”.
Remember, the context is:
“Do you know who that is?”
“The girl who kept you from becoming street pizza.”
When was Amber gonna tell Danny that she almost died?
The context was Amber just having told him that Sal is someone who has hurt her deeply and – rather than investigate this – his very next words were “What if you maybe took a break from Amazigirl for a while?”.
If someone just came up to you, claiming to have really helped a friend of yours, and then said friend reacted to that person with revulsion, would you not be just slightly curious as to why?
But I think it was more “she says she saved your life” “that’s the second worst thing she’s done to me” meaning: hey, Sal told the truth, that horrible, scary situation actually happened, and you haven’t been yourself for a while now, and you don’t seem like you’re happy to be alive, that actually sounds kinda suicidal, that influenced him saying that.
Plus, he’s a college freshman, not a psychologist. Its seriously not his fault. Imagine his perspective as someone who doesn’t know her backstory. Plus, she’s always been calmer as Amber. I’d want to have this conversation with “Amber” if I were him.
Couldn’t just ask “Are you okay?” or something? That seems like a normal reaction.
He has known she hasn’t been ok for a while, but she hasn’t been telling him what’s wrong. He’s asked stuff like that before, and she just ran off. I just hate the thought of him.. anyone in his position.. having blame placed on them for someone else’s abusive reactions and clear loss of rational thought. A rational person would not have responded like that to his suggestion. Plus, I imagine all he can think about is what Sal told him and that it was actually true. That she almost DIED.
I don’t think anyone said this exactly yet, but: he has probably been thinking about asking her to step down from Amazigirl for a while ever since Sal told him she could have died. Suddenly it’s all in his face, and the parts he was actually considering came out before platitudes, then her ranting likely threw him off of any script into pure reacting to her words.
I’m not so sure.
See at least Amazi-Girl has a ‘code’ you can appeal to.
Amber is, by her own reckoning, a broken down rage-filled worthless victim capable of absolutely anything.
That was Amazi-girl who flew to Danny’s rescue, but it was Amber that forcefed her dad the pavement. And her mask slid off as a result.
The mask only comes on when she doesn’t want to kill you.
What’s any of that got to do with deciding that, in this specific moment, the appropriate response to psychological distress is “Hey, are you alright?” and not “I think you have a problem”?
Exactly, Rani. And it’s not like Danny can be expected to know her code when I doubt even she consciously realizes it
I think I know what’s bothering me so much in your comments- although I am fully aware that it is not your intention, but all I see is ‘Danny should know how to placate someone who is abusing him, suddenly, in public! He didn’t, so really it’s his fault shit went down.’
And ‘well maybe they wouldn’t have [very abusive thing] if yu had/n’t [completely insignificant to their anger and very difficult in the moment thing]’ is rhetoric that I am so horribly used to.
That’s not at all how this conversation started: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/she-2/
Danny was minding his own business, Amber opened up accusatory over something Danny had no clue about. He opens up with a “hey, amber” and she’s already antagonistic. “Wrong” is all she says. So he notes her glasses and then she points a finger at Sal and says “what is she doing here”.
Already he is jumped into a conflict he can’t possibly know the face of and his reaction betrays this. He tries to de-escalate noting that Sal has a right to exist. She then immediately goes off on him about how he better not have talked to her which sounds paranoid and controlling. He tries to de-escalate and note how she has liked his honesty in the past. It’s a defusing of the situation into a joke.
She increases anger and targeting, yelling at him about something he couldn’t possibly know, repeatedly asking him “do you know who that is” in incresingly angry tone. He once again tries to de-escalate, making a joke about how they’ve already gone over Sal and how he met her thinking she was AG and trying to connect his gf to emotions that are calmer, because he’s been berated for something he couldn’t possibly know the shape of.
It’s only after that second angry repetition and threat where she’s full on glowering at him that he notes that she says she saved her life, which is factual and a really important thing to remind her of.
At this point, she’s escalated multiple times, Danny’s tried to placate multiple times and it’s only made her madder. He was already in a no win situation at this point and those really suck from personal experience and it can feel important to defend at least the shape of basic reality when that happens, because the attacks against you aren’t being bounded by what actually happened.
So he notes this, sadly, glancing away and Amber then escalates off the freaking rails by calling the saving of her life the second worst thing Sal has ever done to her, which is scary as fuck.
It is only after ALLLL that, that he brings up her taking a break.
This is not someone who was “hey, Sal has hurt me and I get really messed up feelings when I see you with her”. This is not a Danny who opened up with “hey, you know that alter that is your current sole coping strategy? Yeah, well fuck it, Sal told me it sucked”.
This was an Amazi-girl that came in swinging, inflexible, and created a no-win accusatory situation where she expected total compliance and Danny to be a frickin’ mind-reader and absorb a mess of abuse.
Danny handled that with a lot of grace and effort and attempts to defuse and only brought up this bit after she straight up said that being alive, having her life saved was an act of violence.
It’s also worth noting that this is the first confirmation of that for Danny by Amber. Amber didn’t tell him that she nearly died, but has earlier noted that AG cannot fail and that that is something she can less and less control. But here, he already got defensive when Sal noted that she saved her life and that she’s erratic and dangerous, but now Amazi-girl is confirming, yes, she nearly died, she views living as a wrong, and she’s erratic, dangerous, and a legitimate threat to him.
Him saying, hey, maybe this AG thing doesn’t have to be 24/7 (because he’s a college kid who doesn’t know fuck all about DID and she’s previously just described it as a fun thing that helps her feel strong) and maybe things are getting a bit serious and she can take a short break from this whole AG thing is him trying to reach out as best he can.
So yeah, tl;dr, I think you’re getting your order of events out of whack and are being rather unfair to what Danny actually just did.
I disagree. Of course it would be best if that happened, but he’s not a mind reader, he can’t pick a perfect moment, and as for this one, he did not exactly choose it.
As someone with several types of clinical causes of psychological distress (I don’t mean to speak for anyone else who falls in that category, I just mean to to give my context), I wouldn’t/don’t want platitudes or deflected questions if I’m having an episode. Even (especially) if I’m going to end up twisting words I would rather know exactly what is going on, what the new conflict is, and most of all, simply what the person interacting with me wants.
So even if this was really Danny’s choice of tumes and places and what comes up (which, as I said below, I don’t believe any of can be accounted to him), he didn’t pick some universal wrong move.
Make that above. Did not think about where this would fall.
He’s seen Amber run away on seeing him and Sal, but he probably didn’t even put the pieces together.
Dude, do you know how much this sounds like victim blaming? How much this is victim blaming? This is textbook abuse, and you’re reacting like a textbook justifier and enabler. “Well, if you’d just done [xyz] I wouldn’t have had to hit you.” Being mentally ill is no excuse for doing harm to others, and treating it that way is infantilizing to the person who has it. As someone who is mentally ill and who has been on both sides of abuse, I speak from experience. And the way you’re contorting to not blame her for any of what she’s doing right now is genuinely insulting to me as an abuse survivor and a reforming abuser.
No one got beaten up… that counts as a win, right?
Poor Danny, for once he stands up, asserts himself and do the right thing – the opposite of buckling down. And still it blows up in his face.
Poor Amber, she will loath herself over this for a long time.
She will – rationalise this as a reason for keeping the Amazi-Girl persona for a long time!
For everyone saying that Danny should’ve waited for Amber to be calm, consider this:
Amber was calm. She went from zero to this just from seeing Danny and Sal within ten feet of each other.
Do not expect reasonability from what is already unreasonable behavior patterns.
so well put
Yes. She went from zero to this just from seeing Sal. And Danny was not the slightest bit curious why someone who claimed to have saved Amber’s life evoked such a reaction.
He has the situational awareness of a grapefruit.
I really just don’t he has had TIME to get to any questions. Who knows, he will probably go ask Sal what was up with that. Or just be massively confused. Its very flustering when your loving girlfriend whose laundry you just so sweetly did comes over and starts screaming at you out of the absolute blue. Hell, its flustering when anyone is screaming at you and not letting you get a word in edgewise, let along your significant other out of nowhere.
Like, for us this has been several comic strips, over several days, allowing us to pick apart and analyze each strip. This has been literal SECONDS for him.
If he had time enough to decide now was the perfect moment to pop that suggestion, I think he’s had time to realize something isn’t right. This doesn’t require you to be terribly fast on your feet. All it requires is you to be able to hold a consistent topic in your head for more than ten seconds.
He hasn’t seen her til now since Sal told him about what happened and she just not only confirmed it but seemed suicidal about it/to have a death wish. Again, he isn’t her shrink. He’s (was) her boyfriend. Big difference. Its not fair to expect him to always know how to say the magic words to appease her, and there is NO good timing for the reality check she needs
The minute AG came out, calm Amber disappeared. The first thing she said was “Wrong!” And then she asked if Danny knew who Sal was, twice, in a very rude and demanding manner, escalating all the while. Don’t tell me that Danny is supposed to ask questions while he is being accused and verbally beaten up. It is NOT Danny’s job to fix Amber and I think he might have saved himself by realizing it.
I think if you want to be acknowledged as the emotionally mature party, you kinda have to be willing to be emotionally mature. Ignoring the emotional state of someone you care about is not really a good example of demonstrating that willingness. Showing some basic concern isn’t acceptance of an obligation to “fix” someone.
are you seriously implying that DANNY is the one being emotionally immature here? compared to amber “SHE TURNED YOU AGAINST ME” O’Mally??? come on dude, reaching to find a way to blame danny for amber blowing up at him is gross.
Yeah.
That argument also bothers me because I know from personal experience how shitty being stuck in those no-win scenarios are, where your partner has their narrative they are running with and anything you say only has value in how it will be picked apart to justify the negative emotions they are showing you.
Danny legitimately tried to be tactful and sincere, tried to defuse the scenario. Did everything right and she turned it all into accusations of disloyalty and attacking her and how dare he be standing next to a person and talking to her, couldn’t he read her mind and know how much of a PTSD trigger she is for her even though that’s literally never come up in the entire time they’ve dated.
But he was doomed from the beginning. So seeing him blamed for that is upsetting, because it’s what I’ve done to myself for a very long time surrounding the no-win situations I was in. Blaming myself for not finding some magical one-way out that didn’t have me compromising my mental health, that didn’t lead to me being blamed for some fictional slight against that partner.
Cause I’ve only now started to believe that maybe it really wasn’t on me to find a Shangri-la that didn’t exist and maybe it wasn’t on Danny to perform essentially a Police Negotiator’s role out of the freakin’ blue or be blamed for his partner’s abuse.
Standing up to Amber and going “woah hold on this seems unhealthy” is pretty damn emotionally mature. It takes balls to point out to someone they need to step back.
But Danny was blindsided by her rage. And he did try to talk to her, but she interrupted and just kept going. The other thing is that most college freshman don’t have any experience in handling people who have rage issues. Most adults don’t either. I feel that people are blaming the victim, who in this case is Danny.
The above was addressed to fwip.
Forcing your delusions upon another party who is clearly uncomfortable is not the picture of emotional maturity. Calmly making it through that conversation doesn’t make Danny incredibly mature, but it definitely puts him above her in this instance.
Fwip, dude (gender neutral), I’m glad you’ve been standing up for Amber throughout this, but don’t go so far as to impugn Danny. Danny hasn’t actually done anything wrong here.
He was very aware of her anger, and very much trying to help calm her down. But she was refusing to be calmed down. He tried joking. He tried the cold realization. He tried minimizing his request and being as unthreatening about it as possible.
Literally all of those things would have helped calm me down when I had my anger problem.
Funny how months ago I commented that Amber needed some tough love to force her into considering she might be fucking up magnificently. That didn’t fly too well for people back then but oh how does things change.
The thing is, when confronted with something she doesn’t agree with, Amber does the fight or flight routine, and she’s very good at both. There’s little to no chance she will listen as long as she can parkour her way out of a situation, or punch her way out. And if cornered she will go straight into fight mode.
At this point I’m not sure she would seek help on her own volition.
When she says “Amber needs Amazi-Girl a hell of a lot more than she needs you” who is talking? I thought is was Amazi-Girl, but why is she not saying “me” then?
That is the sound of someone who is trying her damnedest not to mix up her alters.
…..Oh shit……this can’t be good.
Yup, I do that a bit, externally labeling the alters and describing them in third person. Though that’s usually because my given personality at any moment is usually just a gestalt and conversation of the alters most in power at that moment.
To note to Clayton, that doesn’t have to be bad…
But it’s definitely bad here the way Amber is doing it.
A Wild Untagged Alter appears!
throw a quick ball! if we’re lucky we can avoid battling this one!
Finding new alters in your head is like a Christmas where all of the presents are boxes of swarming wasps.
I’m reminded of the Incredible Hulk cartoon that was on in the 90’s where for the first season’s finale Banner starts to transform, and is telling Betty to stay back, that this Hulk was different, and may hurt her. Not as Strong, But not Simple, however, Morally Ambiguous.
Love sure is tough in the hood(ie)
I forgot a period.
Well… it’s near the best thing that could have happened for Danny I suppose. He’ll feel bad in the short terms but in the long term Danny you’re much better off.
Now Amber will attempt to be AmaziGirl near full time won’t she though. Uuuuugh.
Danny will wrack himself with guilt no matter what happens and Amber will put herself or someone who didn’t deserve it in the hospital won’t she?
While I disagree at the calls of romance- this is much too soon folks- he needs to be single for a good while I think and even then Danny/Ethan might not happen- but I do think Danny will perhaps go to Ethan /now/, totally freaked out… and realise Ethan doesn’t have a clue what to do either. They’re out of their depth. (Perhaps the fated Sal and Ethan meeting will also occur as a result?)
I think the last time Danny tried to talk to Ethan about how to understand Amber, they both kind of acknowledged they’re out of their depth to help her, but got distracted by sexy Transformers fanfics before either could elaborate. I might be remembering that wrong but I thought they both were already kind of starting to think that. It would be good to see that thread picked up.
*sigh* Afraid of this. She’s on her own, Danny. You tried.
rip in piss DoA’s only legitimately compelling het romance, you had a damn good run and a logical, plot-driven end; godspeed
Well, here’s to rooting for uh….Joe and Joyce? Joece? ….Joye? Joy?
Okay yeah, this was the only compelling one. Have to agree.
Walky and Dorothy are pretty damn heterosexual. I am actively looking forward to their breakup, though, so I wonder what that’s about. Oh right, I like Dorothy and not so much Walky because he’s an eight year old in a man’s body. Dorothy/Joyce 4 Ever.
Hetero? yes
Compelling? Not so much
Once they started dating they basically became a married couple immediately. They’re the most uninteresting couple in the entire comic, and that’s including most of the parents.
Really? I think that’ll be an interesting plot point since they want to be casual. But I also like how refreshingly healthy their relationship is
It would be if that was ever addressed but Walky is allergic to feelings and Dorothy refuses to acknowledge that this doesn’t really look much like a fun fling because acknowledging that means acknowledging her plan has a flaw.
Eh, she’s already figured out that flaw and has decided that she just needs to be okay lying to herself that it doesn’t affect things:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/lword/
I admit that Walky/Dorothy was boring before, but now it’s going somewhere, now that we’re actually starting to see Dorothy’s flaws take center stage.
Danny is bi. Not sure that makes this relationship entirely heteronormative.
legitimately compelling
How do you measure this? I say it’s bullshit!
Also:
Sarah/Jacob (on hiatus, but may be revived)
Raidah/Jacob (exactly the reason why “only legitimately compelling” is bullshit)
Sal/Jason (who think it has ended, but are they not acting like a married couple?)
Roz/Joe (a lot of ??? on this one)
Amber’s mom/Joe’s dad (obviously there’s a history to this ship!)
I measure it by “do I care?” but other people like different things so rock on, have fun with that, good jorb have a nice trip.
EVERYTHING IS OKAY.
Danny can get with Ethan, and hopefully this breakup leads Amber to the therapy she so desperately needs.
Oh heck this, this is my first comment after being a huge lurker my avatar cannot be Mary of all people wtf whyyyy.
That’s what happened to me when I first unlurked. It will eventually change.
Let’s be honest here. This is only upsetting because Danny is the good guy for once.
Strange but I think there may be a few cracks forming in Amber because let’s face it speaking in the 3rd person is not something either of her personalities does about themselves normally and recently amazi-girl has seemed less like the place to creatively use anger that she used to be she has become more level headed I think we may have a 3rd Amber screwing with her life or a complete breakdown in the future
I think Amber and AG have melded into one seething disintegrated mess.
No, “Amazi-girl” just referred to “Amber” as she, which is how she’s talked pretty much since the comic started. “Amber” has been a little more lose with it, but not “Amazi-girl.”
And, yeah, I’m still not sure if I should put quotes on both of them for consistency, or only “Amber” since she’s the ambiguous one. “Amber” is the personality, Amber is the person.
Buckling is not all it’s cracked up to be.
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I expected her to do.
Dammit Amber, FUCKING GROW UP!!!!
She’s psychologically fucked up. It’s a bit more complicated.
I don’t think we’re going to be seeing ‘Amber’ again for a while…
Getting a bit annoyed at all the people insisting Danny should have done X or Y or read this better when this is taking place in the span of seconds and he doesn’t have the information we have, not to mention that someone being abusive at you is pretty distressing and tends to throw you off.
Yeah, that’s a reoccurring trend in the comment section, berating the characters for not doing the “obvious” solution to a problem, no matter how stressed, inexperienced or uninformed they are.
There was a lot of that going on during the kidnapping and during Becky’s first day as homeless.
Personally I don’t think there IS an obvious solution to most of these peoples problems. They have to play bad hands in a game they are not good at. They do their best, and when that is not good enough they still try to pick up the pieces and do damage control.
Like, what if Danny had folded here. “Sorry, Amaziegirl, I will never talk to her again Amaziegirl, I’m going now, Amaziegirl.” Then what?
Should he had waited until next time they were on their own to ask her? I think there would be a fair chance of her blowing up on him exactly like this, and even the best case scenario would have been her bolting away, as she did when after she yelled at him when he kissed her.
Danny is in a shitty situation. There are very few things he can do, and Amber makes sure to make even them very hard for him. I think this IS one of the best things he could have done – very meekly, very submissively make sure to let her know that he likes Amber, he is concerned about Amber and he things Amaziegirl is unhealthy. Of course she blows up at him and does whatever she can to push him away, but she still heard what he said.
Yeah. And it’s forgetting the costs surrounding choices like that. If he had folded, she would have continued berating him for talking in the first place. After all, it was as obvious to him as to her how evil she is, so why was he even talking in the first place, betraying her like that.
It also would have been a psychological mark, because he would have had to betray his own desires to be honest in relationships and support something untrue. And if he ever tried to back off that, note that she’s not a supervillain in the future, you can bet that his capitulation here would be trotted out and used against him, because that’s what happens.
Not to mention that a future conversation would never be allowed to occur and if it did it’d be at a disadvantage, because due to the buckling, the conversation “already occurred” and so why is Danny bringing up all this old stuff, hey, remember how you betrayed me talking to Sal, how have you been making this up to me and why are you continuing to do harm to me by bringing up this old shit?
I’ve been there and for the life of me, I’m not sure how the fuck you “beat” a no-win situation cause both the conciliatory but self-sacrificing and the tactful but firm approaches tend to end in flames.
I think future interactions with Amber will swing willy between accusations and self loathing. She is not Blaine and she HATES that side of herself, but she has very few tools to deal with it.
But yeah, buckling now would be very harmful for Danny because of his own issues, regardless of how Amber would have reacted.
I think it’s a common thing in life and definitely comes up a lot when a victim has horrible things happen to them.
People don’t like dwelling on things that are just bad, that don’t have an upside, so it’s natural to try and come up with some simple obvious solution that “solves the problem” nice and neatly, because then that can erase the awful moment a bit and make it less scary.
Big random, life ruining things can’t just come from nowhere and have no winning solution. The victim in question just fucked up and didn’t do right what I would have done right. So, I’m safe. If this happened to me, I’d know what to do and I would totally do it.
I’d have fixed my homelessness lickity-split by practicing good finances and being on top of my official records, I’d have been on top of my sexual assault, avoiding drinks at parties and responding perfectly afterwards, I’d have defused this abusive situation through empathy. I’d have not antagonized the transphobe.
Because imaginary yous can be flawless and can imagine that their solution would actually work, because they’re not there in that situation. They’ve never lived through it and therefore had to realize how hopeless it is and how much your brain serves as your worst enemy because these sorts of traumas and bad moments had just a bit more bullshit to your plate.
But just like victim-blaming in general, this desperate attempt to make the person feel more in control of their life also frequently comes with a lack of empathy for characters in shitty situations (because it becomes “how dare you not follow my awesome suggestion that would have solved this quickly”), but also the real world individuals who’ve been similar situations.
So yeah, definitely agree with the parallel here.
I suppose they all should have thought of these things before… before…
Or how terrible the ‘obvious solution’ is in context.
Very true!
Same sort of folks who, in real life, will come up to you after the fact and tell you whatever you just had to figure out on the fly was wrong. Fact is, when it comes to being actually helpful, most people are full of should.
Whelp, its official, she’s gone full Anakin on us.
Unless Amber deals with her trauma a little bit more sanely, though, she is going to end up seriously hurt or dead.
Get out of there, Danny. Seriously, just get out of there. She’s not worth the abuse and walking on eggshells.
Danny, Amber is doing you a favor. Yeah, Amber, I’m not playing into her psychosis. She’s being completely unreasonable, and she’s not in full-blown controlling abusive relationship territory quite yet, but she’s just handed you a lot of red-flags. Hell, she’s practically waving them in your face. Break up. This is not healthy. I’m counting down the strips until she full on punches him, it’s that bad.
Ugh, I just wanna shake these characters sometimes. Like, that’s how invested I get about all of this, these characters feel fucking real, but jesus, too real. I’m like wanting to sit Danny down and point him towards loveisrespect.org.
So here are the first nine points of signs of emotional abuse on loveisrespect.org that sound far too applicable to Amber and Danny’s relationship thus far:
“There are many behaviors that qualify as emotional or verbal abuse:
-Calling you names and putting you down.
-Yelling and screaming at you.
-Intentionally embarrassing you in public.
-Preventing you from seeing or talking with friends and family.
-Telling you what to do and wear.
-Damaging your property when they’re angry (throwing objects, punching walls, kicking doors, etc.)
-Using online communities or cell phones to control, intimidate or humiliate you.
-Blaming your actions for their abusive or unhealthy behavior.
-Accusing you of cheating and often being jealous of your outside relationships.”
Also relevant to Danny: “Sometimes verbal abuse is so bad that you actually start believing what your partner says. You begin to think you’re stupid, ugly or fat. You agree that nobody else would ever want to be in a relationship with you. Constantly being criticized and told you aren’t good enough causes you to lose confidence and lowers your self esteem. As a result, you may start to blame yourself for your partner’s abusive behavior.”
This sounds so familiar and it hurts me so much to see, but we can’t deny it. Amber is abusive, and she absolutely has the power (and the temper) to take things to a physical level.
Oh finally, I hope Danny gets over her without blaming himself too much. I would love to see Amber grow from this, but honestly I more expect her to go off the deep-end and die as a result from her doing something really stupid.
To be fair to the guy, he actually isn’t buckling here.
Way to be an asshole, Amber.
So now there are at least TWO women in this comic I want to see Sal slap the stupid $#!+ out of . . . .
Heheheh HAHAHA!! YES! ALL OBSTACLES CLEARED! ETHANxDANNY IS GO!
also I want to test this out…
“for me it was Tuesday.”
Neat. Let’s try some more!
“it was Monday”
“it was Tuesday”
“it was Wednesday”
“it was Thursday”
“it was Friday”
“it was my birthday”
“it was Christmas day”
“it was just another day
“it was just another Tuesday”
“it was payday”
You apparently missed what happened up in the first comment thread.
Not related to this comic, but I just found out my parents are anti-vaxxers (and are saying “I don’t believe in those labels one way or another”), and believe the whole vaccines cause autism thing. After pointing out that that’s both completely untrue and offensive to those with autism, they brushed me off saying “You don’t know anything about this stuff. We’ve done research.” Anyone have any ideas on how to get them to stop?
The unfortunate fact of the matter is for the most part you can’t. You can show them the research (overwhelming research) that says it’s all bollocks but they’re unlikely to listen.
People as a general rule tend to listen to confirmation bias. There’s a comic ages back between Dina and Joyce where Joyce is being schooled in evolution and it cuts to a visual representation of the information getting binned in favour of preconceived notions. This is a fairly standard human trait to be honest. If you see you pieces of evidence, you’re more likely to follow the one which conforms to your own beliefs regardless to the quality of said evidence. Politically motivated “studies” are so harmful in this regard.
Nothing! Facts actually make them doubt you more! Ironically the only thing that actually works on them is widespread social condemnation. Public shaming is really the only thing you can do.
So basically, short of trying to invoke depression and its hyper-self-criticizing nature, there’s nothing I can do. I kind of figured that was the case.
You could always go for the “I’m not attacking your delusion” approach of seeing if they will acknowledge that not everyone who gets vaccines gets autism, and isn’t it worth the “risk” to prevent the actual debilitating and potentially fatal diseases that the vaccines are intended to prevent? Given that many autistic people live quite happily, and aren’t, you know, dead from a preventable disease?
Nothing, but you can try finding the research that debunked theirs rather than unrelated vaccine studies on similar topics. The rest is up to how much you are able to tell them off and whether they are willing to learn anything
Also maybe point out that deceased due to polio, whooping cough, or smallpox is kind of a lot nore of a problem than literally any vaccine argument (and I just read an article on someone whose baby is/was in intensive care because she refused vaccines and it couldn’t breathe from whooping cough, so there are current examples you can pull from).
If you want something more friendly, there are a fewe comics on the subject too.
That’s a difficult one. Even if you bring up facts about how many people died of the illnesses that are commonly vaccinated for nowadays, they will have counters like “yeah, but now people are much better fed and their immune systems can beat it down”.
It doesn’t help that the industry plays down the occasional problems with vaccination.
A bit like the argument about pasteurized vs raw milk. Both are based on forgetting the danger the strategy avoids and focussing on a much lesser danger, tiny compared to the original risk, that is visible now as a result of apllying the strategy.
If you’re interested in stopping the transmission of the antivaxxer core ideas, you could go for the intellectual sabotage route and feed them more garbage that plays into their cognitive biases until they lack credibility generally. But that’s a scorched-earth strategy and they are your family.
Burn it all.
Bit too strong?
I twitch every time I read that. May not be sure on what causes Autism, but it’s known what doesn’t cause it. And the two, TWO, occurrences where the anti-vaxxers cite for the whole Autism thing, it wasn’t Autism, but a different thing that presents like Autism. NOT Autism.
Sorry, just big on calling a thing it’s correct thing.
GS? Is that you?
If memory serves, didn’t Mike call her out on this a while back.
That he’s the one who finally held it up to her face for the first time, what role she’s taking in the cycle?
People really seemed to shit on Mike for that. All I really noticed is his direct delivery actually HIT HOME rather than all the eggshell crap everyone else has tried with Amber for fear of angering her.
Already linked this above, but here it is again.
Jegus, Amber, no. You need a morality chain, not a yes man. Ah, why do I even bother.
Why does anyone in the comments bother? It’s not like they can see what we type? No Joker or Deadpool type characters there. Though it is cathartic for us.
In the interest of just getting this off my chest, I am really bummed out to see the end of Danny and Amber. There’s zero representation of bi dudes in opposite gender relationships in media, so seeing Danny figure out he was bi and still very obviously still be in love with Amber, I liked that. I liked that there was an opposite gender relationship for a bi dude that was treated with as much validity and agency as any other, and before this I was really banking on seeing Danny come out to her and try to work through this confusing mine field of new feelings while already in a relationship, because that’s something that I’ve never seen before, and I would have loved to just have one example of that anywhere. Though being honest, pretty much everything David Willis could write about Danny would be breaking new grounds for bi characters, because bi characters never get to do anything ever. If this is the catalyst for Danny/Ethan, all I ask is that it’s not the only Queer dude narrative ever, where the two important Queer dudes in the cast meet and instantly fall in love forever and everything is perfect and magical, and they never grow or develop or get challenged because they’re too busy just being so amazing with one another.
Other than that, it is disappointing to see that Amber’s storyline is now about how she’s definitely an abuser. I liked how she responded to her trauma by burying it so deeply that she created this whole new slew of problems for herself, how anger was this completely unforgivable sin for her, and here she is deliberately tearing Danny down. I’m not sure if this is “X is better than Y” so much as I really preferred one story to the other, but I did like that dynamic in Amber’s character and it’s sad to see it replaced with a much more typical narrative for characters with histories of abuse.
Just as you say, there are lot’s of possible stories to be told, and the one Willis chose to tell us does not invalidate the others.
For me, the most important aspect of Danny’s story is that he is a doormat. He and Joe tell two different stories about masculinity and the problems with them. Now we have seen two relationships end badly for Danny, from his part because he was too bad at setting boundaries and making demands (an important part of Dorothy’s story, relationshipwise, is getting use to someone who actually has a bit more integrity).
From that perspective, the most important part for me with his budding romance with Ethan will be if Ethan chose to leave the closet or not. Danny’s need to keep his relationship with Amber secret has been a catastrophe, he really doesn’t need another partner that want to keep their relationship secret, however glorious his man-chest.
Ethan and Danny also share their mutual worry about Amber, and how they chose to handle that will be much more important in the short term than their attraction for each other.
All this is extremely important for Danny’s characterisation. He is a doormat way, WAY in over his head. I think this very strip shows the most he has been asserting himself in the entire comic.
Hell, there’s near zero representation of bi dudes in media (that last longer than a minor arc) who aren’t rewritten at some point to have “just been in a phase and now they only have eyes for X” or to be some cheater character that everyone knew would betray Y character someday because of their bisexuality.
And that really sucks, so I feel for you here.
I trust that Willis will take the time to build Ethan/Danny if it is likely to happen in a way where it’s not just “perfect queer relationship” and he’s been pretty good about not erasing the bisexuality of bi characters in relationships… these days (still have issues with how Billie was initially handled in Roomies, but that’s a much younger Willis with less practice on these sorts of things).
And yeah, I also feel you on mourning specific plot lines. Like, it was nice to have a DID character who had massive issues and shit to work through but wasn’t a scary and abusive threat to others. And well, now…
Which isn’t to say it’s bad. Hell, this arc is helping me process some of the stuff that came up in the relationship that occupied the majority of my 20s, so yay, there’s that.
*Appropriate gesture of support if needed*
I totally agree, bi people are very underrepresented in the media, especially men. Its one of the reasons I love Elliot on SciFi’s The Magicians: He is openly bi/pan and has casual and serious relationships with both men and women but its not like its ever blatantly stated he’s bi.. Its not necessary. He’s accepted. No one questions it.
But as a bi, now recently married person, I have to say eventually yea, many of us do settle down, with one person monogamously. That doesn’t mean being bi was a phase, it just meant (I/others like myself) were open to monogamous relationships with both genders, and eventually found one I would like to spend my life with, gender irrelevant. It doesn’t mean I’m no longer attracted to the opposite gender of my S.O. 🙂
Very much all of this.
I really don’t like the way this whole storyline is going. I still have hopes that Willis will pull something off that will be even more satisfying for how bad it is right now, but I’m not as sure of that as I was awhile back.
I think this might be Amber’s biggest freakout to date. Amaziegirl has always been the part of her persona that is in control, but now Amber is freaked out enough to hide and let Amaziegirl take over in broad daylight, in front of people, no mask or costume, and Amaziegirl heaps abuse on Danny, pushes him away and runs off. This is not Amaziegirl being in control, this is Amaziegirl scrambling frantically and saying whatever dumb shit her brain offers up in order to maintain the illusion of control.
Unfortunately she has learnt how to control people in a relationship from Blaine.
I think as soon as Amber resurfaces she will not only be devestated by guilt – she will also be very weary of Amaziegirl. Up to now she has trusted Amaziegirl to not make the bad decisions Amber would have made. I don’t think she will maintain that trust after this.
Which might actually be a important and very good step.
“might” being the operative word, but I really hope it will be.
I strongly suspect that Amber is going to lash out now; lash out randomly and without her usual care to choose the ‘deserving’ for punishment. Amazi-Girl will become the monster that she accuses Sal of being and, worst of all, it is going to undermine the persona’s value as a safety valve. She’s going to lose all of her supporters in quick succession because she’s just going to turn into a thug attacking people who she regards as ‘bad’ or ‘annoying’ almost at random.
I suspect that the preview panels we’ve seen of Mike and Ethan visiting Amber’s dorm room and Dina and Amber are from a future ‘intervention’ storyline. I’m guessing that Mike basically taunts Ethan into coming out of his passive comfort zone and acting and is there at the dorm room to make sure that he doesn’t wimp out at the last minute.
I’m hoping that there is a future for Danny and Amber but it can only happen after Amber confronts her demons and comes out the other side with a clearer understanding of objective reality.
So as for the comic itself, I think an important distinction to make is how Amber’s alters react to expressing anger.
Amber is terrified of getting angry. She buries it until something snaps and it just violently explodes everywhere, whereupon she starts to self-abuse in guilt and shame, compartmentalizing the latest infraction so she can use it as further proof that she is as obviously shit as she always knew she was. The last time she got angry at Danny it took all of one panel for her to break down in guilt, and she had to run away to Amazi-Girl so she could tear Amber down, because Amber is never allowed to make mistakes or express her anger because anger is a sin.
Amazi-Girl, the perfect, golden alter, the one who exists to protect that shitty violent coward who couldn’t save Ethan, isn’t just angry, she’s going for direct attacks on Danny. She’s choosing the most painful things she could possibly say to him, blaming him for failing her, that Amber really needed him but he’s nowhere near as important as Amazi-Girl, and treating this attack as Danny being too weak to support her when Amber didn’t even manage to swear at him before she burst into tears. And all this because he was standing in the vicinity of the Criminal Scum that Amazi-Girl has pinned all of her problems upon, but never thought to talk to him about. She’s so incapable of registering Sal as a human being that being near her is an unforgivable infraction on Danny’s part.
I think at this point, it’s clear that the love for Danny that Amber attributes to Amazi-Girl is really coming from Amber herself.
Yeah, and it reveals the cold poison “golden alters” tend to be. When I was a dumbass kid, the “golden alter” for me that I treated as the guardian of morality was actually the alter who was most dangerous to me and had the most problematic moral code of all of them. And when I believed otherwise, I ended up doing a lot of harm to myself, worsening things like childhood dysphoria and suicidal ideation that could have been less intense with a less hostile approach to the alters I saw as “bad” back then.
AAAAAaaaaaaaand. I just noticed the character tags. shit.
So, yeah…there’s no chance she comes out of this with functioning legs, is there?
I see no sign of Ruth anywhere in this storyline tho’.
Amber used to be one of my favorite characters, these last several strips are making it very difficult for that to remain true.
Good riddance. Danny does not need someone who gets so irrationally bent out of shape when he is in the vicinity of the person whom Amber pins all her problems on. Especially since he has no context for why she’s reacting like this, and she certainly won’t tell him.
5 years worth in 3 days. Dammit I gotta stop binging your web comics. I guess I’ll just go read Shortpacked again xD
It looks like Sal courageaously retreated away from the bickering couple.
Back in Sept ’13 Amber told Mike that she “totally, happily trusted Danny” AND that she took advantage of that. AND when Mike pointed out that she was doing some Blaine-type behavior A got very border-line violent angry. So ..
…yup, definitely emotional abuse.
I bet Danny’s going to go back to her and thinks it’s all his fault for not supporting her enough.
My inner Amazi-girl (and I think we all have her, to some extent) wants to grab Amber and make her stop. Be stronger than her so she can’t hurt me, and force her to do what we all know would actually fix her problems, instead of making them worse.
And I would like to remind people that what Amber is going through is literally torture. As in, she had a complete panic attack here. And a panic attack is the thing that waterboarding causes that got it declared as torture.
And she has these every time she is triggered.
No, she’s not handling things right. Yes, she’s being horrible to Danny. But do not lose sight of what she’s going through. If you do, all the build up of showing you why she is the way she is was for naught.
She’s not Mary. She’s not Carol. She’s not Mike. And she’s not John. She’s not evil. She’s a good person going through more shit that most of you will ever go through. And, although she is fictional, there are plenty of people out there like her.
Absolutely right. Amber has a complete and utter freakout. We know why, we know the road here, and we have seen her coping mechanisms fail one after another until she falls back to the worst possible mechanism she knows – the one taught to her by Blaine.
This. Amber broke free of Blaine in the physical world BUT she’s carrying him I side herself
All of the above. And that’s the tragedy of Amber and why I feel so similarly to her as I do my ex. She’s going through torture because of the traumas given to her by her abuser. And in a world where she can hardly think because of that, she defaults to what lies deepest. And what lies deepest is both the survival skills she used to survive Blaine as a child (for better or for worse) and the methods of interacting with the world he carefully taught her (for worse and for The Literal Worst).
She’s not abusive in the mold of getting off on the power and the dehumanization like Blaine does, but she does do abusive stuff because when her mind is blank with panic and her emotions are FUBARed to all hell, she defaults to her default and her default is poisoned with his rot.
Ugh, I have so many tangled up feelings about people who do that.
Doesn’t mean it’s not a good thing if they stay broken up.
Doesn’t mean it’s not a good thing if they get back together.
Unless the story really is Amber is too screwed up to be safe and is just going to get worse for the forseeable future. Which would be a really sucky story. Even if it’s a realistic one.
congrats, A.G. Best way to handle the situation.
Back during Family Weekend Amber told Mike that she happily trusted Danny but took advantage of him. And when Mike suggested that she was going to the Blaine-side, she got border-line-violent enraged at him.
Because the truth hurts.
We really saw my favorite Mike quote in action there.
“I find I can do more damage with the truth.”
(The close second being “Can you not hear the laughter?”)
AND NOW WE’RE BACK TO FUCK THIS!
I get that happiness isn’t really a necessary thing for necessary character development, but we’re on a long stretch of unhappiness here and it’s getting really hard to not just be like “alright, I’m done.”
For those with Patreon, is it relevant to post the “honey, you have a big storm coming” pic?
I rather think, the ability to physically relax and be happy is a necessary prerequisite for healing trauma. Don’t know if that also applies to mental illness but it seems likely.
You have to gain energy to deal with trauma, you have to be able to imagine that things could be different. Else, why try?
And I fail to see why I should have any sympathy for Amber here. She’s just as abusive as her father, she’s violent, she’s controlling, and she’s kind of psychopathic.
At leas Sal has mended her ways and is trying to deal with her own baggage and her own insecurities without becoming a toxic personality. In fact, between dealing with Walky and Amazi-Girl, I think Sal deserves a medal and a statue on campus.
Why feel sympathetic for Amber? Probably because we’ve seen how she’s come to this point and recognize it’s largely being controlled by circumstances and poor coping mechanisms.
She’s nowhere near as abusive as her father; she hasn’t hunted down the target of her psychological abuse nor manipulated those around the target to create an even more damaging response/situation and try to use it to her favor.
None of what she’s done has been very deliberate, but reflexive and yes, irrational, but primarily from our perspective. Her feelings toward Sal are the major problem, but grounded in trauma that Sal WAS actually responsible for the source of. No, Sal didn’t mean to do the damage. She shouldn’t be held any more liable for it then she already has, but it’s not Amber’s fault that she has poor reactions based on untreated trauma actually made worse by an abusive parent.
You should still have sympathy for her here because we’re seeing how awful traits can emerge in a not awful person. If you automatically disconnect with people because of unfavorable traits, how will you ever relate to or recognize similar problems of your own or of those you care about?
The AG/superhero storylines tended not to be my favorites, with some really great exceptions anytime we went into her past or motivations or Blaine stuff. But I certainly sympathized.
Now as Amber’s becoming more and more abusive it’s harder to feel anything for her but detachment. I’ve had so many “Ambers” in my life that it’s a conditioned response at this point. Some of us who disconnect do so because we’ve been overwhelmingly taught in life that it’s the option that causes us the least mental/physical harm.
You can have sympathy as you walk away. I wouldn’t demand someone who’s been abused have sympathy for abusers. It’s nice if they can, but not my demand to make.
Your response is understandable. It’s your coping mechanism and if it works, it works. Amber’s is to defend and distrust, with the unfortunate side effect of causing a lot of damage to her relationships with others and distress for the people involved. She’s been overwhelmingly taught in life that it’s the best option and most effective, hence her increasing reliance on it in the face of stress.
I’m not demanding anyone sympathize. I’m giving reasons why they should, but it’s their own prerogative. I don’t see how it’s wrong to think that abusers can and should also be recognized and understood as human, including sympathy for the circumstances. Yes, in reality the danger is being manipulated by this sympathy and a calculated distance may be maintained. But the disconnect as a conditioned response is no more an excuse than the abuse as one, and if we expect her/abusers to sympathize and not behave inappropriately (at least for judgment, not for predictions) then we do have a responsibility to extend that sympathy to them as well.
No one’s saying abusers are inhuman in this thread. By all means sympathize with abusive people, there’s nothing wrong with that at all. 🙂 But insisting that victims have a responsibility to do the same, or else they’re just making excuses, is tough for some survivors to agree with.
I don’t owe my unapologetic abusers jack shit any more than Amber owes anything to Blaine (or Becky to Toedad). Anything she could give him would be over and beyond any obligation she currently has to him. Sometimes not sympathizing is less about denying someone’s humanity, and more about reclaiming your own sanity after your abuser’s made you question it.
My personal coping mechanisms come from years of relationships with several abusers and years of therapy with several psychologists supporting the approach. I’m comfortable owning them. They aren’t excuses to me and quite frankly learning them saved my life. I doubt I’ll need them indefinitely, but yes, I do need them now.
Maintaining a “calculated distance” with an abuser while extending sympathy and support (IF you’re their victim) isn’t effective IME. That’s not the victim’s battle to fight, and hearing that it is mentally queues up the “IT’S A TRAP!” sound byte.
IRL there is no prize awarded to victims for Feeling Sorry For Your Abuser And Trying To Analyze Why They Are How They Are, if you’re still engaged with them. What’s heartbreaking is that in this dynamic the “prize” the victim is usually after is just the abuser’s love and acceptance.
IRL we don’t get years of omniscient narrative backstory to understand what’s really making our abusers tick and why they might just be good people deep down. It speaks to the quality of the writing when Amber so strongly reminds us of real-life abuse patterns. In the comic though, because we’ve been given so much information, we can see why we can have sympathy for her, and it’s safe to explore that because it’s all fictional.
But as good as the comic is, it’s not a model for all behaviors in real life, and sympathizing with my abusers without also totally disengaging put me in incredibly dangerous situations.
I’m also noticing that in the comic, most attempts by Danny to sympathize and offer real help/connection have been met with varying degrees of raging anger–which has finally escalated to this. That’s very realistic and sad. Danny’s sympathy (and low self esteem) has kept him emotionally invested in the abusive cycle, preventing him from disengaging and changing the dynamic that’s doing increasingly serious harm to both of them.
TL;DR Victims moving past abuse specifically have a tough time being insisted to sympathize with abusers, but it doesn’t change the rightness of what you say re: that it’s still good to have sympathy/empathy for people who do bad things, and try to understand them.
Yeah, Amber has joined Sarah on my list of “Fuck you, you’re a stupid piece of shit who’s too self-absorbed in your own psychodrama to actually care about other people’s feelings” people.
I agree.
Sarah, really? She’s abrasive and unpleasant, but not cruel or manipulative. And you can tell she actually, really cares. It ultimately comes down to stonewalling other people because the last time she opened up, it ended in disaster.
She’s just smart and mean. But not all the time. She’s caught herself being insensitive and self-absorbed too, and immediately stopped the behavior in favor of connecting to another person. Recently too. Signs of growth.
I don’t know about Sarah. I’d give that slot to Mary.
Definitely her father’s daughter.
Makes me wonder what trauma lies in Blaine’s past, really.
Most likely childhood abuse and bad parenting patterns.
But Amber’s young and just starting to get out on her own. Despite her problems, she’s still got a good chance of trying to address them.
Blaine’s apparently quite happy and content with his.
Blaine would also have grown up in the 70s or 80s, when a lot environments didn’t really treat kids with mental issiues as anything other than bad seeds. Not saying that we’re perfect nowadays, of course, but it’s worth keeping in mind that even if people noticed something wrong with Blaine odds are good nobody really got involved.
It would be interesting to get a hint of how Blaine was when he was younger. Like, what was he like when he and Amber’s Mom got together? Was he already that bad back then or did he get meaner with age? For some reason I imagine a young Blaine as being someone akin to Mary. Toxic and selfcentered but still trying to keep up appearances of being in the right.
It’s still the same today. PBS posted an article yesterday about new research on discipline for children, and some woman went off in the comments section about how it’s totally normal for her four-year-old to declare “I’m going to be bad today,” make a mean face, and then pinch the baby or kick the dog. And that ‘all four year olds do that’ and that ‘nipping it in the bud with punishment’ is the normal way to handle it. :/ Not even joking – someone thinks that’s “normal” behavior for a child who’s supposed to be learning empathy at that age.
THIS is how fucking people like Blaine and Amber are created. Remember? Blaine CRITICIZED Amber for not being a violent asshole when Ethan was held hostage. He CRITICIZED her for ‘being like her mom’ and walking away instead of fighting him. He thought that if she were “normal,” and not a ‘weakling,’ that she would be violent, manipulative, and abusive – like him.
We’ll be able to intervene with the creation of people like Blaine and Amber when we’re willing to knuckle down and admit that violence and aggression are NOT the natural state of being for people, it’s TAUGHT.
Where did Sal go? I wonder if she heard Amber’s rant and knows that she’s Amazigirl now.
I’m not sure Sal went anywhere. Danny followed Amber down the steps in this strip and we where close up on them last strip. She could be just off camera now.
She could have heard Danny’s first “Said she saved you”, which would be enough to clue her in.
I’m pretty sure Sal already figured out Amber was Amazi-Girl.
Everyone’s always sure that everyone has easily figured out Amber was Amazi-Girl, apparently ecause it’s so easy and obvious from our perspective, because there have never been any clues in the actual comic that any one has.
Except for Dina, who didn’t get that it was a secret all, but she’s also Amber’s roommate and might well have been standing behind a door when Amber changed at some point.
And Dorothy, where we actually saw her find the clues and put it together – mostly by accident.
There’s no reason Sal would have a clue. Sal has barely even seen Amber – partly because Amber panics and runs away when she sees Sal.
I think Danny accidentally hinted at it way too much (also it depends how much of that conversation she heard), but before that I would definitely agree. Some people have decided she must be from Clark or whichever the girls one is, but it’s not like Sal would care to talk about that, even if she talked to them.
I haven’t been in these comments ever so I don’t know what has already been said but it just hit me in this comic that Amber seems to have DID (disassociative identity disorder) or something like it. She has a split personality that fronts to save her when she is feeling emotionally vulnerable. I dunno if this is a completely intentional decision or if she has something else that is presenting as DID.
It really seems to be DID so I can’t be mad at her for her current attitude, I hope someone cares enough to recognize this is really something wrong with her (Maybe Sal, actually, she’s the only one who can tell something is really wrong with being an honest to god super hero) and gets her psychological help. Believe me seeing a psychiatrist and a psychologist would be the best thing for her. She could deal with her feelings and her oscillating feelings.
I don’t think it’s DID because there’s no blackouts. I think it’s definitely dissociation and identity issues, though. Like, dissociation is a spectrum and DID is the absolute extreme of one of it’s manifestations and Amber isn’t that far, but I can see why people read it like that.
Blackouts and amnesia are not requirements for DID. If it were, I would not be able to hold the type of employment I do. And believe me, I’ve most definitely had DID since at least when I was 5.
Blackouts and amnesia are merely requirements for research papers on DID to give a fuck about you. Because that’s a sexy version of the disease that can make a name for a psychology professor. As such, there’s almost next to no literature on post-integration DID or semi-integrated DID and how someone can create a full dissociation and the failure of alters to share memories.
However, there’s a lot we can pull together by communities and life experiences of DID individuals.
I’m confused and genuinely curious. Dissociative Amnesia is one of the criteria for diagnosis of DID (at least for those using the DSM)..but I’m not trained in psychology and recognize a little google is a dangerous thing. So…if it’s not too exhausting to explain, for what I’m sure is the thousandth time, what is the definition for DID that you are using?
Distinct alters, whether they be integrated or amnesiacally disassociated. The alters are defined as being distinct in personality traits, either being tied to a moment (alters stuck in time like the 9 year old kid alter of someone who was horrifically abused at that age) or full consciousness that are fully aware of the current time.
These alters can be “proven” by the attempt to eliminate them, though that is not at all recommended given how bad this is for the person who has the alters. A DID person’s alter will fight back against elimination often at the expense of mental health.
As far as I can tell, it’s looking like one of the potential origins of amnesiac DID symptoms is that for the longest time, alters were treated as delusions and so the treatment was about eliminating alters in favor of the “real” personality, which would cause the alters who were being “eliminated” to fight back and start hiding their memories from the core self. Amnesiac disassociation can also be a trauma protection method (protect the rest of the brain from the emotional weight of bad memories).
Interactions between alters can be varied, some like me experiencing their integration like an on-going conversation between distinct entities with their own personal histories and emotional responses to things. Others can be more contentious or hidden depending on their life circumstances.
Does this help? If not, please let me know if you have any other questions.
That is helpful. Thank you for explaining 🙂
Oh. My. Gosh.
Another instance of “Hey, I have crippling psychological and emotional problems, and I’m well aware of them, but I refuse to deal with them or get help for them, because…reasons.”
I feel like I’m watching Grey’s Anatomy!
“but I refuse to deal with them or get help for them, because”?
Because I have crippling psychological and emotional problems.
That’s the nasty thing about crippling psychological and emotional problems. They very often keep you from doing the sometimes very simple things that would fix them.
THIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
YEP, THIS, LITERALLY THIS. Fun thing about crippling psychological and emotional problems: They convince you that THIS IS YOU, THIS IS NORMAL, THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE EXPERIENCES and it is entirely YOUR FAULT that you cannot handle them like the NORMAL PERSON YOU SHOULD BE. And then if/when you manage to realize something is seriously wrong, said crippling psychological and emotional problems tell you you ABSOLUTELY should not tell other people because again, it is entirely your fault you cannot handle this on your own, but also because alerting other people to what’s going on in your head would mean they all know what a weird failure you are, which is the absolute worst possible thing imaginable to you in the hellpit that is your head. Remember what Amazi-Girl said to Joyce, after all – “I’M crazy. He’s just some asshole with a gun.” She’s aware this is an atypical coping mechanism, probably even aware this isn’t the best option out there, but Blaine and society have told her she should be able to manage this by herself and if she weren’t such a terrible fuckup she wouldn’t be doing this now would she.
Mental illness is really, really not fun.
The sad thing is that Amber is becoming like her father and she doesn’t have the insight to see this. Therapy would be a good idea for someone like her.
She sees in it some ways; I think it really got to her when she realised she enjoyed punching Blaine way back when. The red background of rage kicks in and she loses control, and in those instances she is like her father and probably knows it, and that’s why it scares her, and that’s why she compartmentalises like she does, even though it’s becoming more and more obvious that this is not a healthy way to deal with her issues.
But she doesn’t see the other ways that she’s becoming her father. She only seems to associate physical violence with being like him. With enough self-awareness, in the future she may look back on this scee with one of her red background of rage flashbacks and realise that there are different ways of being like her father.
The best thing Danny can do right now is respect this and leave Amber alone for a while. Amber has to come back to him or else it’ll just solidify her current feelings.
That being said, Amber really needs to see a counselor, one that she hires so that confidentiality applies. Otherwise this is just going to get worse. Unfortunately, she won’t unless she gets caught, or unless she does something that even she views as unforgivable.
What do you mean by “so that confidentiality applies”? Are there circumstances where it doesn’t apply?
Yes. Not all hotlines or counseling services are necessarily run by licensed professionals obligated/privileged to maintain the confidentiality of these conversations. “One that she hires,” isn’t exactly the necessary precursor, but ensuring the proper forms and process has been gone through to make sure things are confidential is. (Becoming a client of record, signing off on any disclaimers or policies, etc.)
this is hitting really hard for me because i have HUGE trust and relationship issues because of the verbal and emotional abuse i received from my mother over the years, and i think a really major part of that (and one of the reasons I’m NEVER having children) is because I’m terrified that I’m going to act like her and treat people like she does – I don’t want to become my mother.
*hugs*
So THIS is what it sounds like when doves cry.
It would really seems contrived for drama purpose to make Amber react like that, if her character wasn’t so well established. When you know her, you know she will act like that. Still this kind of irrational reaction irk me in really bad.
People expecting other to behave in a certain based on element they have no means to know in the first place need to understand people are not omniscient.
Also, her hate for sal is definitely unhealthy.
Dagnabbit Amber, don’t turn into a Rob Liefeld character
Fortunately there’s no Pouches, Pouches, Pouches! store near Indiana U. There’s also no evidence Amber has 70 teeth in her mouth.
Or that her upper vertebrae are 5 inches past a straight line drawn down to ass?
Damn it Amber. Just damn it. Willis – just as you defied laws of physics in so many ways with Amazi-Girl’s abilities (the car chase!) I expect you to defy all logical outcomes here and make Amber not be broken anymore. You know, because I’m feeling. And I love that girl. Make her happy – I don’t need to believe the reasons – just make it happen. (pretty please?)
OK, Amber needs serious therapy and she doesn’t strike me as the type to get it unless she has no other choice.
Danny, the smart thing to do here would be to inform an authority figure about Amazi-Girl’s identity. Any trouble Amber might get into for her vigilantism is worth it if it means saving her life.
Blaine, shut up and go fight with Mike or something. :p (Seriously, that Blaine!face on Amber gets more obvious all the time. She needs to do something about that. :/ )
Fuck you, Amazi-Girl.
At this point, I am 99% sure Amber has DID, and Amazi-Girl is getting way too control on what was supposed to be the “main” personality. Back when the comic started, Amazi-Girl and Amber weren’t as… separate. Amazi-Girl looked like just a costume and a name Amber put on to fight crime. Now? Now Amazi-Girl has taken over and is making decisions for Amber.
Amber isn’t Amazi-Girl. Real Amber is the brooding angry murder hobo. Amazi-Girl is the nice one. Disguise amber is the person Amazi-Girl created.
sooooo what’s the over/under on Amber getting straight up arrested and sent to the psych ward at this point???? a week???
Our time, I doubt it. In-universe, possible.
I might get hate for this, but…
OhgodDannypleasegorunningtoEthanforcomfort
I think most people are saying “Already shipped it.”
Amber is kind of like her dad tbh.
Danny-X-Ethan in
3…
2…
1…
So, I know this strip is serious and all, but am I really the only one who noticed that Amber/Amazi-Girl’s shirt is missing the logo?
Jussst realized the tags for these past couple strips say Amazi-girl and not Amber.
Amber has become a terrible person. I don’t care what Sal did ages ago. It doesn’t excuse Amber.
Amber doesn’t have DID. DID people become their other personality and don’t remember it. Amber is just using Amazi-Girl as a Power Object Fantasy which is an entirely different condition.
Don’t completely agree. I think Amber does dissociate, I just don’t think it’s DID.
That’s not actually how DID works. Amnesia is not a requirement of the condition. If it were, people would be “magically cured” the moment they achieved integration.
I ship Sal and Danny.
Well, that’s a relief.
Wheres Mike…i miss Mike hes been gone so long
Looks like it’s time for Mike to fix everything
So when Amber is institutionalized, who will Willis draft for action scenes?
I nominate Danny. Because Rule of Funny. Who would be the least appropriate person to become a costumed vigilante?
besides Riley?
Faz
He has charts to show you why he’s the best at vigilantism.
Amber. You almost died. That is not a light breeze. Please get help.
Not for AmaziGirl. Almost dying is part of the gig. Dying too, but popularity will just make it so that it turned out to be a clone or something.
Amber really needs to get some help. Like, legitimate, serious help. She’s become pretty much unable to listen to concerns from people who genuinely care about her.