Personally I think so. It’s about genuinely processing things rather than unfocused anger. After all, Sal has not shown much respect for unfocused anger before (see interactions with Amazi-girl). Joyce isn’t regurgitating what she was taught and trying to ape a sheltered type of cool, she’s genuinely processing what she truly believes and what her place in the world is.
I’m not so sure. Joyce did force herself to live up to an ideal, but that dorkiness? The fangirling? The big triangle smiles? That’s 100% legit Joyce.
This is the first time Joyce has ever interacted with Sal without that level of admiration, and I can’t imagine a scenario where Sal would want her to continue, but that’s all been Joyce.
But so is the person who tears themselves up for their morality and the person who will get on the back of a motorcycle without a helmet to try and save their friend. They’re both Joyce.
Yeah, but Joyce has always been like that. Joyce always turns herself in knots trying to live up to false ideals while doing right by those she loves, and she always choose the latter. It was allegedly fake Joyce who befriended Dorothy, took Becky in, and realized how she was hurting Ethan.
This is the first time that Joyce has reacted to these challenges by shutting down and becoming sullen and angry, and that’s what prompts Sal to say she’s being real. Because Joyce is acting more like Sal, now she’s authentic Joyce.
I guess it’s possible Sal believes Joyce attitude prior to this was rejection. I mean, the girl was almost raped, and, as far as Sal could see, she didn’t really react. This time, however, it seems like she is genuinely processing what happened, instead of burying it away in a deep and dark corner of her mind hoping it never resurfaces (and that lead her to seeing Ryan everywhere when she’s alone).
Maybe Joyce losing her happy-go-lucky attitude is part of the process, but if it means she start facing her problems instead of hiding from them, Sal is in favor of it.
IDK I guess I just have a hard time viewing Sal as some dispenser of ultimate wisdom or carrying some cunning insight of the human condition considering her last pieces of advice for Joyce were “don’t go to the cops” and “therapists are dumb”.
She might have been basing that advice on her own experience, which while obviously not representative of every therapist or cop, would definitely make her more cautious about both.
Which is why I’m skeptical as to whether Sal was right about Joyce’s newfound realness. Her opinions and cops and therapists make sense for her, but I really don’t think anything about Joyce right now is “more real” other than Joyce acting more like Sal thinks she should.
Oh, whether or not Sal is a perfect diviner or whether or not she is “right” about Joyce’s “realness” are very different questions than what she is probably seeing that is prompting her to view Joyce as more “real”.
I mean, yeah, Sal’s a kid, a kid making dumb mistakes with their best friend and resisting most forms of friendship and practicing a form of sexual self-destruction with an individual with academic power over her who also constantly belittles and undermines her. Are they right about everything? Are they holder of the one true “real”? Bob, no.
She has not seemed in the past to respect people who copy-cat her to try and get on her good side or even those who think really highly of her (with Joyce and with Carla).
When Joyce last tried to be like her, Sal rejected it cold, telling her to knock it off and be her authentic self. And she thought that authentic self was sweater-vest super-cheerful whiteness and she told her to own that. To be true to that instead of trying to project an image she thought might make her more palatable.
This is evidence that Sal doesn’t want a clone, she wants people to be honest around her, to be themselves even if it’s dorky or stupid or involves mannerisms she finds annoying. And that she specifically doesn’t want Joyce to be a clone of her.
So I doubt she’s going “oh yeah, she’s more brooding, like me, this is awesome”, but I can definitely see her going “hey, she’s been through shit and processing it on her own, that’s good. That’s how you get through rough stuff. That’s real.” And I think that’s what she’s doing.
It’s also worth noting that earlier this week was a major milestone in Joyce’s interactions with Sal. Before Gun Day, Joyce’s interactions with Sal were all her being all creepily “I want to pet your hair” hero-worshippy and Sal knew next to nothing about Joyce’s internal life. Now? She bonded on the motorcycle and saw what Joyce is like when the chips are down.
Sal has now had a major heart-to-heart with her when Sal was calming down Joyce’s PTSD-caused agoraphobia. Learning a lot more about her struggles, her current PTSD resources, her recent fears with her friends, her former boyfriend, and her identity as the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit. Sal at that moment knew more about Joyce’s internal life than most of her friends and got to understand what Joyce has been dealing with on another level.
So, another reason that Sal might consider Joyce real is because she’s seen what Joyce has kept bottled inside and she’s seeing her take her advice to talk to her friends and let them in on all of it.
And it’s probably why she’s brusque with said friends who are all “we want old Joyce back”. Like, to her, they’re saying “we loved it when she was repressing all her pain and hiding her struggles and fears in a really unhealthy manner” and so yeah, Sal’s gonna spike that hard and say, “fuck you, she’s being real to you about her hurt”.
That’s a good way to look at it. I’m probably focusing too much on Sal’s response to Joyce’s actions in that one strip, rather than taking in the entirety of Sal’s relationship with Joyce.
I suspect there’s also a level of Sal thinking her “sweater-vest super-cheerful whiteness” was based on a false view of the world. Now that she’s been forced out of that, she’s actually dealing with the real world. She could be “real” while her whole understanding was based on her narrow home-schooled upbringing.
Yes, perhaps one of the most annoying things about sex is that it is nigh impossible to speak frankly about to a person you would bang without greatly diminishing the probability of banging.
I honestly rather like the Clan approach – walk up and ask if you want to couple. Whatever their other issues, their approach toward sexuality is refreshingly honest.
Comedy option: he goes to the TA that Sal is fucking and catches his sister bouncing like a jackhammer on him. Extra comedy option: instead of a primal scene with his sister and TA, he falls for the TA, starting a love triangle. Supersize comedy option: The latter, then former happens.
Dorothy seduces Joyce. When the afterglow wears off, Joyce realizes that she is bisexual after all, and knocks Dorothy out of the bunk in her haste to find Becky.
Joyce bursts in on Becky and Dina smooching and declares her lust for Becky. Becky leaps in Joyce’s arms, instantly forgetting Dina.
Dina screams in pain and rage and goes Full Yandere. She shapeshifts into her true form of Saurornithoides Mongoliensis. She rips Joyce and Becky into bloody pieces with her razor-sharp sickle claws.
Dina continues down the hall, slaughtering everyone in her path. Sal and Amazi-Girl unite against her despite their animosity, but even so both fall before her.
Danny cradles Amazi-girl’s lifeless body and screams a Big NOOOOOOOO!!! as Campus Security arrives with the Oxygen Destroyers.
I’m kinda still hoping for Joyce being bi, but just isn’t attracted to Becky that way. Which would be sad for Becky in a way, but she has Dina now, she’ll be ok.
Well, given Willis’s previous statements about spiting bigots, if we can just get more bigots to complain about the number of queer characters in the comic, maybe eventually everyone will have come out as some flavor of queer.
Nah, he’ll just keep introducing new ones. You need a specific kind of biggotted complaining to trigger a drastic change in a character that already exists just to spite assholes.
There was foreshadowing in Ultracar’s awkwardness in her physical form and her saving up for legs and other things that could be read in a potentially trans analogous way. I don’t believe it was planned from the start, but I suspect Willis saw the potential for a parallel and went with it.
Well, at least everybody so far is just two things, at most. We still have to see somebody who’s, say, black, gay and atheist. As long as Willis doesn’t start making people three things, we are safe from Soggies.
There are plenty of non-LGBQT characters in this series, it’s just that the featured cast are disproportionately LGBQT. This is probably partially a plot device as in this country it is still easier to stir up drama more easily for this group (which is good for the author). I also imagine that it is partially also a kickback against the 80’s-90’s general Hoosier mindset regarding LGBQT individuals, having grown up watching others behave like hateful barbarians and wondering the whole time just why they honestly think a religious figure that told them to love their neighbor wanted them to hate those particular neighbors.
Or maybe Dorothy makes out with Joyce, causing Joyce and Dorothy to realise they are both actually into girls, and then they hook up with Beckysaurus for a 4way? 😀
Before Amazi-Girl dies she whispers something in Danny’s ear, before handing him a hand grenade. Danny runs off and faces down Dina in a corridor. They run at each other, with Danny leaping up and shoving the grenade down Dina’s throat, losing his arm in the process. Dina leans down to finish him off, but he’s saved at the last minute by Riley, who pulls him out of the way, just before Dina explodes.
Due to a completely unrelated event, the apocalypse happens around the same time, causing Danny, Riley, and lets say Carla to become badass mad max style wanderers. They will eventually run across Faz and Howard. Howard will have lost an eye, and become a gruff badass. Faz will still be sneaky, and will betray them, but feel really bad about it, leading to him committing a heroic sacrifice.
They are captured by Uzi-wielding jumpsuited thugs and forced to work in the sub-terranean pizza mines under the stern discipline of a buxom blonde in tight black leather.
They are rescued from Conquest’s pizza mine by Red Car Lady, whose car is now covered with spikes and flame-belching exhausts, and are pursued across the desert by War Toes.
The other way this could go is…
“Joyce bursts in on Becky and Dina smooching and declares her lust for Becky. Becky leaps in Joyce’s arms, and then they have a threesome.”
That fact that [i]that[/i] was Dorothy’s first response to yet another of Walky’s “lol Joyce wants to lez out with you” jokes instead of her usually “God damn it Walky” is a big flashing sign of just how worried Dorothy is about both Joyce and the rapidly growing distance in their friendship.
Also, I see you stammering about math there, Mr. Walkerton. Get a tutor, damn it, or at least someone who’ll teach you the study skills you’ll need.
Yeah. It also reveals a lot about Dorothy’s relationship to guilt. She obviously is carrying hard Joyce’s situation with the PTSD and not being there for her during Toedad’s rampage and feels it is on her to fix that which is broken. And we’ve seen that before, with her agonizing over not hurting Danny while breaking up with him or trying to get Walky to open up about stuff that’s bothering him.
She’s a fixer and when she can’t fix things, she starts nervously pawing at less ideal answers… such as honestly considering Walky’s nth “lol, lez out” suggestion*.
*It would be delicious irony if Walky eventually gets dumped because Dorothy and Joyce actually did find genuine romantic connection with each other. I mean, dude is kind of asking for it with all his taunting of the irony gods.
Yep, looks to me like Walky was being completely serious with his “perhaps you need to get busy with Joyce” suggestion there. He knows that sometimes, extreme situations call for extreme solutions.
A love child? Please. Jacques’ progeny is a genetically engineered superbeing intended to rule the world and usher in the Singularity. And talk about butts a lot.
I suspect so. I further suspect he still hasn’t told anyone or asked for help, and is also still hoping that he more or less magically becomes Good At College and starts being able to coast again like he did in high school.
(That might more or less be what happened to me. Spoiler alert: it did not work out well at all.)
What if the panel of her looking terrified in front a of is hearing her parents go on about homosexuality behind that door while it makes her think of that time she was with Dotty?
Walky’s stutter in response to the question about math doesn’t bode well. . We last actually saw him get a quiz back on a Monday, not long before everything happened with Toedad. Since then, there would have been a Wednesday class, and the Friday class presumably just let out. I’m guessing the situation hasn’t improved? Ah, well, I really didn’t think the situation would be resolved that easily.
Joyce’s smile in panel 2 is a mere shadow of her trademark triangle smile. Based on my less-than-proficient face reading skills, the smile doesn’t seem to be reaching her eyes. She is not fine, unless our definition is according to the acronym FINE. Fucked-up, Insecure, Neurotic, Emotional. Maybe Joyce is telling the truth when she she says she’s fine.
I hope my use of this acronym isn’t insulting to anyone who’s going through something. I don’t intend it to be. I’m no stranger to struggle, and mental health challenges, and I’ve applied this term to myself. I’ve had issues IRL where I didn’t realize the effect my words had on another person, and it lead to issues. I honestly don’t want to upset anyone. I apologize if I offended anyone.
I suspect Walky’s stubborn clinging to his pride may last all the way to midterms and the irrefutable truth that he’s heading for an F if he doesn’t change his habits.
Louise Penny uses that acronym (FINE) in her books, but e is for egotistical. Very well written mysteries set in Canada. Unsure if that was a call out or if that is used elsewhere. Penny can be a bit of a poacher.
I think Joyce needs a long discussion with a liberal Christian. She needs to see she can love her God and live in reality with everyone else. At least that’s what worked for me.
Yeah, I think that could be really helpful for her. Unfortunately, as far as I can gather, she’s spent most of her life to date avoiding liberal Christians like the plague.
*evil smile* I’m really looking forward to her homecoming, because I suspect that Jocelyne might be living at home at the moment, which means that there will be a lot of potential moments of interaction even if she is not fully ready to come out to her sister yet.
Except, she has that with Becky. The problem is that Becky is being a liberal Christian by rejecting aspects she was taught like the evil of homosexuality and the rightness of creationism. And Joyce isn’t quite ready to do that yet and so is emotionally struggling right now.
She’s letting go of some of her tainted beliefs, but is still scared she is selling her soul in standing for what is right.
Becky is a recent and sudden convert.
She needs someone who is stable and maybe even understands her doubts and the confusion.
I grew up a strict Catholic. It’s really jarring learning everything you believed is wrong up to a point. To learn it the way she has, it reaches a level I never had to deal with thankfully.
It still took a trans woman sitting me down and explaining everything to me for me to learn I could have my God and liberalism.
Just to be a pedant (It’s super fun!) the next chapter is “When God Closes the Door”.
Normally I wouldn’t pay too close attention to the choice of article but I swear I read somewhere that Joyce is from La Porte. (Which translates to The Door)
I suspect that Joyce is not in for a pleasant homecoming at all.
Nah, only if Dorothy afterward dumped him for Joyce would he be bothered by it. No need for that, I think. Dorothy could be the first female atheist bisexual president in a poly relationship with with a man and a woman.
It had looked as if Joyce was walking alone immediately after the cycle ride, if her friends let her, she may just start doing that.
She didn’t seem to care much one way or other about Walky being there or maybe it is just the hug?
Joyce/Dorothy/Walky/Becky/Dina I understand (and support if we are talking absurdly large ships), and Amber/Danny/Ethan (you stay out of this Joe), but I don’t know where the crossover between those two groups would come in.
Interestingly enough, Walky’s first line in the last panel has some validity (not necessarily the infinite plus one bang suggestion, though it sets up an excellent punchline). That Joyce is smiling momentarily is progress. When things are tumultuous and you’re stuck in your head a lot, it can be hard to fully access your emotions, doubly so after fresh trauma.
In fact, there’s a name for the condition in PTSD. It’s called “hypoarousal” and it’s basically a condition where after a trauma, it becomes harder to feel things and things just generally shut down. You start slowing down and often are prone to spells of sadness, irritability and low-grade nervousness. Additionally, it can be hard to both show joy and gratitude to actions that would normally make you feel happy and it can lead to situations like Ruth involving depression and the loss of any ability to feel emotions at all.
And I think that’s exactly what is happening with Joyce. And well, her ability to show joy at touch even in small moments is a good sign. It means, that there might be a slow thawing of the hypoaroused state.
However, the fact that it is this intense to begin with means that her PTSD is definitely starting to become compound PTSD with all the big terrible life events she is racking up and without therapy and not feeling fully comfortable sharing what is happening internally with her friends, she may run into some bumpy roads trying to recover.
It’s a bit apples and oranges. But they are both good signs. Ruth having emotions other than lust and anger is very good and being able to consistently access sadness is critical for her recovery (also girl needs anti-depressants in the worst way). In a very similar way, Joyce having moments like these where she’s pulling briefly out of the hypoarousal is a good sign for healthily living with her PTSD.
But it also means they both have a hard road that is not at all fun, speaking as an individual whose had both clinical depression and PTSD-related hypoarousal.
Joyce – almost died and around the same time may be coming to the conclusion that there’s no afterlife.
Following conversation…
Joyce: “D..dor…Dorothy… how do… how do you live… with…. knowing one day…. you’ll just… not… *tears up*… not..be?”
Dorothy: “I don’t.”
Joyce: “W…wha?”
Dorothy: “I’ve got a life insurance policy that’s paying for my cryogenic freezing if I ever kick the bucket, since that is currently in option now. And possibly before (or after) that point, depending on when science get’s there, I’ll switch out for a cyborg body that doesn’t age or get old. I’m a veritable immortal.”
Joyce: “So… there’s no one… who… und….understan…”
Dorothy: “Shhhh…. lets go look over life insurance plans for you.”
If that was the case, I’d lose respect like nothing’s business. I’ve got no patience for ‘atheists’ who fall for such an obvious con and who can’t clear arguably one of the most important hurdles for an atheist, which is accepting one’s own impermanence and inevitable death. Folks who can’t pull up their big girl panties deserve tuna cans frozen to their foreheads for all eternity – and yes, that is something that happens in those freezers.
Dorothy… if you care enough about her that you would have sex with her… give some serious thought to your sexuality. I’m not saying that asexuals don’t have sex with their loved ones, but I am saying… think long and hard about it.
True, but if you were seriously considering having sex with a man out of the blue, then… let’s just say that Kinsey 0 as far as she can tell may not be so null as she thinks.
I have to admit I’m amused at the number of commenters who think that Dorothy is actually seriously considering it in the last panel as opposed to numbly finding something to say about the situation.
Yes, I’m aware of http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/kinsey/. But sleeping with someone because you think it might fix them is different from doing so because you actually want to. And would be kind of disturbing, really, especially from someone who as recently as a few days ago was pretty certain she was exclusively straight.
TL;DR: shippers, you get creepy really, really fast. But then I suppose that’s the whole point.
It isn’t Dorothy I’m worried about, it’s Walky. He’s the sort of guy who wouldn’t understand the subtleties of the situation and take it at bald face value.
The first hint Dorothy would get of this is when she’s grabbed by a furious Sal who is demanding to know why she thinks it’s right to seduce Joyce to ‘make her feel better’. After an argument, it turns out that Walky asked Sal if it was appropriate for him to ask for permission to watch the action.
Just an additional thought: It probably says more about the Internet than it does about Willis’s characters that people can’t imagine Joyce and Dorothy having a deep, intimate friendship that has absolutely no romantic or sexual element.
Joyce having bisexual tendencies is a thing Willis has been hinting at, even beyond Dorothy: “warm and safe” in Billie’s breasts, for example. Her relationship with Sal had elements of “crush” as well.
Mind you, I don’t think he’s actually going there, but the hints are real. Certainly enough to set shippers off. Of course two characters existing is enough to set shippers off, much less actually talking to each other.:)
And it is also noted that she learned what a platonic friendship looks like from a woman who has turned out to have had a years’ long crush on her.
And yeah, don’t really think it is serious at all.
Mainly because “sex to fix someone” is a completely disgusting trope when played straight. Or it at least to me is really triggering and off-putting, because of my background as an ace woman and the unfortunate reality of individuals thinking their punguses and dingdongs will “cure us” if we just let them “heal us” with their sex.
And frankly I trust Willis enough to not go there.
Oh yeah, I forgot that Becky did that too, though she at least had pretty valid reasons for believing it.
FWIW I do think Joyce might not be a solid Kinsey 0, at the least I think it’s a perfectly valid interpretation of the character, but Walky treats it like he’s trying to humiliate Joyce and using her friendship with Dorothy to do it.
Walky is, as usual, crude and not at all respectful. I don’t think he means anything harmful by it, which doesn’t mean it can’t hurt. He’s also smarter and far more perceptive than he lets on, so I wouldn’t dismiss what he sees.
But mostly yeah, I think the perception is due to her idea of close female friendships being shaped by her friendship with Becky, who was, probably unintentionally, treating it more as a romance than a friendship.
Why do all of my posts basically just say: “See what Cerberus just wrote”?
Walky is pretty smart, but perceptive he is not, let alone when it comes to sexuality. He sussed out that Ethan was gay because he didn’t act enough like how Walky thinks a heterosexual man should with a woman, and he thinks Joyce is seconds away from lezzing out because how else could a woman have a close, intimate friendship with another.
And yeah he’s probably not trying to cause serious harm but he’s still just annoying her for his own amusement. That’s what he does.
“I’m emotionally suffering, but I’d prefer not to talk about it or make you worry unduly. Especially since part of my suffering is due to how my friendships with you and Becky is making me question the very values I was brought up to believe. And I’m scared that the fact that I think said values may actually be immoral in places is what everyone back home warned me was the path straight to Hell.”
Jumping away from the Joyce x Dotty shipping, I see that Walky is still hiding his problems in class from everyone, even his girlfriend. I suspect that he feels somewhat ashamed that he is having trouble and it has become an aspect of his self-esteem to keep it hidden from his peers.
He thinks “having to try hard to maintain a good grade” or “struggling in a subject” is synonymous with “idiot” and he has too much pride and self-image wrapped up in being so “smart” he doesn’t even need to try.
So yeah, because he wouldn’t respect anyone in his position, he’s not going to tell any of his friends unless it is completely unavoidable.
I think he’s hiding it from Dorothy because he thinks she’ll leave him if she finds out that he’s not actually breezing through college with straight A’s like he told her he was.
I don’t think she’d leave him because of that. Honestly, I think she’d love to have study dates. But I think Walky is starting to feel like he’s an idiot, like he’s failing everyone around him.
I’m thinking it could if, say, Amber and Danny stay together through college and beyond, have an open and/or poly relationship, and Ethan were not the first guy for Danny. Even then it could be bad. Really bad. So yeah, It seems like compounding disaster with disaster if it were done in the timeframe of the comic.
Honestly, if you only consider Ethan and Amber, it could totally work.
Ethan is very easy-going and is probably looking for something that is lower commitment for a first-relationship as everything is super scary. He is also very much wanting to connect back in Amber’s life and feels guilty for not really being able to be there sexually for her.
And Amber? Amber has frequently been shown to have a fetish for both two men being together and threesomes. She’s made punchlines on multiple occasions about someone in her fantasies being bisexual and wanting a threesome and she is sexually attracted to both Ethan and Danny. As such, I could not only see her enjoying a poly V, but being the one to suggest it.
So where would it all fall apart? Danny.
Danny is really monogamous and wants a monogamous relationship structure. He wants to be the one big thing in someone’s life and have them be the one big thing in his and he is not at all comfortable having sexual attractions to multiple people. While he is sexually and romantically interested in both Amber and Ethan (as well as Amber’s alters) and while he may be willing to do Amber a solid if he thought he owed her, he’s just too mono to be comfortable for very long in a poly setup. Especially one where he is the center of the V.
And it’s a shame because it would be cool to see more stable poly representation (though I’d dislike it if the only currently out bi man was shown to be poly oriented as it’s a pretty nasty stereotype of bi men that they are inherently untrustworthy in monogamous relationships (though not nearly as much as I’d dislike it if he was shown to be a cheater, because fricking every depiction of bi men in media shows them to be untrustworthy cheaters and it’s annoying as fuck)).
Disregarding Danny, because let’s face it that dude is the idea of monogamy made manifest, I’m not entirely sure Ethan and Amber would be up for being in a relationship with each other, even with a third person they were mutually into. I don’t think Ethan can romantically love her and Amber’s described sex as “weird and personal”. Even in Shortpacked they fought a lot over Mike.
I feel like there’s still too much bitterness and guilt between the two for them to actually have a poly romance with each other.
Hmm. I suspect Amber would be a problem as well.
First, fantasizing about threesomes or somesuch is far more common than actually wanting to be in one or even more being able to deal with a long-term poly relationship.
More importantly, Amber’s in no place to handle this. Her first instinct would be to back out of the relationship. “Amber’s no good. She doesn’t deserve this. Let Danny be happy with Ethan.” That’s a poisonous attitude to bring into any relationship, but I suspect it would be even worse in a poly one.
To be fair, Danny had never heard of bisexuality before this week so it’s not fair to say he knows anything about non-mono relationships. To him anything besides what he knows is either “cheating” or “swingers” and he doesn’t like either of those things.
Given that Danny can be educated about polyfidelity (and is cool with it), Amber does not freak out about the bi thing (given past experience with Ethan), and Ethan is not completely turned off by a nekkid Amber in the room, I think they’d make a great trio.
In sincerity…Joyce is probably going to be okay. At the very least, her being a bit mopey after everything she’s just been through isn’t huge cause for concern. I had a really hard time with this same transition, but I’m better for it now.
I’m worried about how much she’s going to be hurt in the interim, but she’s probably going to be fine.
Yeah, this. It hurts having to radically realign everything you thought you knew about yourself and the people who claimed to love you. And it takes a little bit of time to recover from. Especially when its prefaced by some really scary violent trauma.
Joyce has a lot on her mind and doesn’t feel like she’s got anyone who really understands (Becky would normally be the perfect person to go to on this, but Becky has not been shown to struggle with her faith. She knows that her idea of God loves her and would never lie to her, so everything that doesn’t fit that must be bullshit and can be thrown away).
So she’s going to be mostly incommunicado for a bit.
She’s also probably summoning up emotional armor for her visit home this weekend. She knows that her mom is emotionally manipulative and can say awful things, so she needs to gather a lot of strength up for dealing with that in the midst of her loss of faith.
Loading ...
“let’s approach this scientifically–start with a peck on the cheek and work from there”
Nah, she just needs a control group and a variable. Two sheltered Christian girls; she bangs one and leaves the other alone.
Now, we’ll need a volunteer…
DID SOMEONE SAY VOLUNTEER?
*Proceeds to get car keys, onstar, and redbull because i am in for a long drive.
DID SOMEONE SAY VOLUNTEER?
The facts that I am neither sheltered, nor a Christian, nor a girl, are completely immaterial. I can be, FOR SCIENCE! xD
That’s not how science works!
Science can work however you want it to work just by invoking the sentence “FOR SCIENCE!”! 😛
Hmm sheltered Christian girl, who is straight….We have found a use for Mary!
Comedy option: Mary is a self-hating lesbian.
I wouldn’t be surprised, to be honest.
What do you seem to have against threesomes?
Statistical rigor requires a larger sample size. Somebody call Daisy and tell her to bring friends.
her and dina can exchange notes on the proper application of the scientific method to lady-on-lady action
Well they both have to be blindfolded, for a start…
For Science.
Yes of course, a double blind study.
Also multiple tests will need to be done to compare the data.
It should also be video taped, for quality assurance and booth review in the final 2 minutes.
Not to mention all this must be observed, to ensure all the data gathered is scientifically sound…
No one has linked Thomas Dolby yet? WTH is wrong with you people?
Too obvious. We do have some standards, after all.
she could always try walky’s method of chucking toys at her face until she reciprocates her affections
It’s the only way.
Lesbian sex from orbit.
AND DOROTHY’S ACTUALLY CONSIDERING IT
Fans and shippers this could happen
I’m not a religious person
BUT DAMN
I’m praying that this might happen. 😀
Well, she does have to help her friend…
Dorothy has to help her friend of Dorothy.
I’m so bad.
Oh Walky, in the words of Han Solo…
“Women always figure out the truth.”
Loretta Castorini: What am I going to tell him?
Cosmo Castorini: Tell him the truth. They find out anyway.
I think she might flip out more if Dorothy tried that.
That’s the point. She’s already flipped. Another 180 at this point might put her back to normal.
But what happens if instead of another 180, she does a full 360?
Then she’ll stay right where she is, so no harm done. Except maybe less sexually frustrated.
She’s flipped 180, but what if another 180 flip doesn’t set her back to normal though? Maybe Joyce’s personality is Spin 1/2?
[/RandomQuantumPhysics]
“Flip?
For the first time ever, she seems real.”
I wonder if Sal had a point or if that was just some teenage pessimism.
It kind of came off as “Joyce is angry and anger is real” to me.
Personally I think so. It’s about genuinely processing things rather than unfocused anger. After all, Sal has not shown much respect for unfocused anger before (see interactions with Amazi-girl). Joyce isn’t regurgitating what she was taught and trying to ape a sheltered type of cool, she’s genuinely processing what she truly believes and what her place in the world is.
To Sal? That’s realness.
I’m not so sure. Joyce did force herself to live up to an ideal, but that dorkiness? The fangirling? The big triangle smiles? That’s 100% legit Joyce.
This is the first time Joyce has ever interacted with Sal without that level of admiration, and I can’t imagine a scenario where Sal would want her to continue, but that’s all been Joyce.
But so is the person who tears themselves up for their morality and the person who will get on the back of a motorcycle without a helmet to try and save their friend. They’re both Joyce.
Yeah, but Joyce has always been like that. Joyce always turns herself in knots trying to live up to false ideals while doing right by those she loves, and she always choose the latter. It was allegedly fake Joyce who befriended Dorothy, took Becky in, and realized how she was hurting Ethan.
This is the first time that Joyce has reacted to these challenges by shutting down and becoming sullen and angry, and that’s what prompts Sal to say she’s being real. Because Joyce is acting more like Sal, now she’s authentic Joyce.
I guess it’s possible Sal believes Joyce attitude prior to this was rejection. I mean, the girl was almost raped, and, as far as Sal could see, she didn’t really react. This time, however, it seems like she is genuinely processing what happened, instead of burying it away in a deep and dark corner of her mind hoping it never resurfaces (and that lead her to seeing Ryan everywhere when she’s alone).
Maybe Joyce losing her happy-go-lucky attitude is part of the process, but if it means she start facing her problems instead of hiding from them, Sal is in favor of it.
IDK I guess I just have a hard time viewing Sal as some dispenser of ultimate wisdom or carrying some cunning insight of the human condition considering her last pieces of advice for Joyce were “don’t go to the cops” and “therapists are dumb”.
She might have been basing that advice on her own experience, which while obviously not representative of every therapist or cop, would definitely make her more cautious about both.
Which is why I’m skeptical as to whether Sal was right about Joyce’s newfound realness. Her opinions and cops and therapists make sense for her, but I really don’t think anything about Joyce right now is “more real” other than Joyce acting more like Sal thinks she should.
Oh, whether or not Sal is a perfect diviner or whether or not she is “right” about Joyce’s “realness” are very different questions than what she is probably seeing that is prompting her to view Joyce as more “real”.
I mean, yeah, Sal’s a kid, a kid making dumb mistakes with their best friend and resisting most forms of friendship and practicing a form of sexual self-destruction with an individual with academic power over her who also constantly belittles and undermines her. Are they right about everything? Are they holder of the one true “real”? Bob, no.
But I don’t think Sal has been shown to value 90s grimdark as the truest level of real. She hates Amazi-girl’s unfocused anger largely because it reminds her of herself at her worst:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/prove/
She has not seemed in the past to respect people who copy-cat her to try and get on her good side or even those who think really highly of her (with Joyce and with Carla).
She’s looked out for Joyce largely because of the sexual assault thing on multiple occasions and didn’t pressure her to become bitter about it, mostly just encouraging talking to others about it and avoiding situations or individuals who might increase the trauma or trigger it (to the level where he pulled Walky aside and told him off when he refused to respect a no with Joyce):
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/agoraphobia/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/foranybody/
And most importantly, this:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/fudge/
When Joyce last tried to be like her, Sal rejected it cold, telling her to knock it off and be her authentic self. And she thought that authentic self was sweater-vest super-cheerful whiteness and she told her to own that. To be true to that instead of trying to project an image she thought might make her more palatable.
This is evidence that Sal doesn’t want a clone, she wants people to be honest around her, to be themselves even if it’s dorky or stupid or involves mannerisms she finds annoying. And that she specifically doesn’t want Joyce to be a clone of her.
So I doubt she’s going “oh yeah, she’s more brooding, like me, this is awesome”, but I can definitely see her going “hey, she’s been through shit and processing it on her own, that’s good. That’s how you get through rough stuff. That’s real.” And I think that’s what she’s doing.
It’s also worth noting that earlier this week was a major milestone in Joyce’s interactions with Sal. Before Gun Day, Joyce’s interactions with Sal were all her being all creepily “I want to pet your hair” hero-worshippy and Sal knew next to nothing about Joyce’s internal life. Now? She bonded on the motorcycle and saw what Joyce is like when the chips are down.
And more importantly?
This:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/damngirl/
Sal has now had a major heart-to-heart with her when Sal was calming down Joyce’s PTSD-caused agoraphobia. Learning a lot more about her struggles, her current PTSD resources, her recent fears with her friends, her former boyfriend, and her identity as the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit. Sal at that moment knew more about Joyce’s internal life than most of her friends and got to understand what Joyce has been dealing with on another level.
So, another reason that Sal might consider Joyce real is because she’s seen what Joyce has kept bottled inside and she’s seeing her take her advice to talk to her friends and let them in on all of it.
And it’s probably why she’s brusque with said friends who are all “we want old Joyce back”. Like, to her, they’re saying “we loved it when she was repressing all her pain and hiding her struggles and fears in a really unhealthy manner” and so yeah, Sal’s gonna spike that hard and say, “fuck you, she’s being real to you about her hurt”.
At least, that’s my interpretation.
That’s a good way to look at it. I’m probably focusing too much on Sal’s response to Joyce’s actions in that one strip, rather than taking in the entirety of Sal’s relationship with Joyce.
I suspect there’s also a level of Sal thinking her “sweater-vest super-cheerful whiteness” was based on a false view of the world. Now that she’s been forced out of that, she’s actually dealing with the real world. She could be “real” while her whole understanding was based on her narrow home-schooled upbringing.
But mostly, what Cerberus said.
Worth a try I suppose
I’m surprised Joe didn’t magically appear after hearing the last line
He got punched enough to know better.
Okay, I know “you need to get laid” is a bit of a discredited trope…
…but for Joyce, well…some TLC might be JUST what she needs.
I’m thinking Hate Sex!
… She just needs a cuppa Joe in her life.
I think getting laid would make her problems even worse, tbh.
Well you’ll never know unless you try, Dorothy. I guess?
Well I guess we’ve figured out the next Slipshine topic..
“Together They’re Agnostic” -A Dumbing of Age pornographique by David “Two college tuitions to pay for” Willis
Oh alt-text, if you only knew…
Only one way to find out.
By which I mean asking her like a normal person.
in my experience, that particular question does not necessarily yield an accurate and unbiased response
Yes, perhaps one of the most annoying things about sex is that it is nigh impossible to speak frankly about to a person you would bang without greatly diminishing the probability of banging.
I honestly rather like the Clan approach – walk up and ask if you want to couple. Whatever their other issues, their approach toward sexuality is refreshingly honest.
*plays Sting’s “If I Ever Lose My Faith In You” on the Muzak*
Don’t fall for it, Dorothy. It’s just part of Walky’s scheme to keep you learning the horrible truth: He’s gonna fail Mathematics 110.
Comedy option: he goes to the TA that Sal is fucking and catches his sister bouncing like a jackhammer on him. Extra comedy option: instead of a primal scene with his sister and TA, he falls for the TA, starting a love triangle. Supersize comedy option: The latter, then former happens.
We won’t know until you try Dorothy
This a really bad idea, Walky.
Dorothy seduces Joyce. When the afterglow wears off, Joyce realizes that she is bisexual after all, and knocks Dorothy out of the bunk in her haste to find Becky.
Joyce bursts in on Becky and Dina smooching and declares her lust for Becky. Becky leaps in Joyce’s arms, instantly forgetting Dina.
Dina screams in pain and rage and goes Full Yandere. She shapeshifts into her true form of Saurornithoides Mongoliensis. She rips Joyce and Becky into bloody pieces with her razor-sharp sickle claws.
Dina continues down the hall, slaughtering everyone in her path. Sal and Amazi-Girl unite against her despite their animosity, but even so both fall before her.
Danny cradles Amazi-girl’s lifeless body and screams a Big NOOOOOOOO!!! as Campus Security arrives with the Oxygen Destroyers.
All die. Oh, the embarrassment!
I’m kinda still hoping for Joyce being bi, but just isn’t attracted to Becky that way. Which would be sad for Becky in a way, but she has Dina now, she’ll be ok.
Well, given Willis’s previous statements about spiting bigots, if we can just get more bigots to complain about the number of queer characters in the comic, maybe eventually everyone will have come out as some flavor of queer.
While, I’m not really opposed to that, it might start to feel repetitive around the time Amber starts writing slashfic of Catwoman and Black Widow.
…does this exist and where can i find it
Nah, he’ll just keep introducing new ones. You need a specific kind of biggotted complaining to trigger a drastic change in a character that already exists just to spite assholes.
I might be mistaken but what was the reason he gave for turning Ultra Car trans? Or was she always and I just missed the foreshadowing…
In Shortpacked!, not DoA.
There was foreshadowing in Ultracar’s awkwardness in her physical form and her saving up for legs and other things that could be read in a potentially trans analogous way. I don’t believe it was planned from the start, but I suspect Willis saw the potential for a parallel and went with it.
Yes there are too many non straight people in this comic. It’s not realistic. Didn’t we learn from the risk of soggies
Risk of soggies isn’t that big of a concern. They may rule. It’s not a guarantee.
Well, at least everybody so far is just two things, at most. We still have to see somebody who’s, say, black, gay and atheist. As long as Willis doesn’t start making people three things, we are safe from Soggies.
Dina is Asian, un-diagnosed neuro-divergent, and some flavor of “not straight”. Prepare your Cap’n Crunch, for Soggies are coming.
Quick, someone check Bryan’s religious identification! The fate of the world may depend on it!
There are plenty of non-LGBQT characters in this series, it’s just that the featured cast are disproportionately LGBQT. This is probably partially a plot device as in this country it is still easier to stir up drama more easily for this group (which is good for the author). I also imagine that it is partially also a kickback against the 80’s-90’s general Hoosier mindset regarding LGBQT individuals, having grown up watching others behave like hateful barbarians and wondering the whole time just why they honestly think a religious figure that told them to love their neighbor wanted them to hate those particular neighbors.
Or maybe Dorothy makes out with Joyce, causing Joyce and Dorothy to realise they are both actually into girls, and then they hook up with Beckysaurus for a 4way? 😀
Before Amazi-Girl dies she whispers something in Danny’s ear, before handing him a hand grenade. Danny runs off and faces down Dina in a corridor. They run at each other, with Danny leaping up and shoving the grenade down Dina’s throat, losing his arm in the process. Dina leans down to finish him off, but he’s saved at the last minute by Riley, who pulls him out of the way, just before Dina explodes.
Then after losing his arm, Danny gets a robot one and becomes a grim ‘n’ gritty brooding 90’s anti-hero.
Due to a completely unrelated event, the apocalypse happens around the same time, causing Danny, Riley, and lets say Carla to become badass mad max style wanderers. They will eventually run across Faz and Howard. Howard will have lost an eye, and become a gruff badass. Faz will still be sneaky, and will betray them, but feel really bad about it, leading to him committing a heroic sacrifice.
They are captured by Uzi-wielding jumpsuited thugs and forced to work in the sub-terranean pizza mines under the stern discipline of a buxom blonde in tight black leather.
They are rescued from Conquest’s pizza mine by Red Car Lady, whose car is now covered with spikes and flame-belching exhausts, and are pursued across the desert by War Toes.
Fuck it, I’m fan ficing this shit
What are you having and where can I get some?
He’s having some highlander, you can get some in scotland.
Meanwhile…
…
Tell me, Captain, how long have you been meditating on this scenario? 😉
Since before your sun burned bright in space…
Still, it’s good to know that Dorothy is prepared to do what it takes ^^
The other way this could go is…
“Joyce bursts in on Becky and Dina smooching and declares her lust for Becky. Becky leaps in Joyce’s arms, and then they have a threesome.”
Bravo on the Godzilla reference.
…….
Walky, you have a shot at The Belt! DO NOT screw this up! 😉
“I’m uploading these comics in september.”
“Is this hellsing TAB / The Mark Remark?”
I think it’s just a reference to the fact that in September the buffer was here.
And it’s almost grown to three months at this point.
That fact that [i]that[/i] was Dorothy’s first response to yet another of Walky’s “lol Joyce wants to lez out with you” jokes instead of her usually “God damn it Walky” is a big flashing sign of just how worried Dorothy is about both Joyce and the rapidly growing distance in their friendship.
Also, I see you stammering about math there, Mr. Walkerton. Get a tutor, damn it, or at least someone who’ll teach you the study skills you’ll need.
Yeah. It also reveals a lot about Dorothy’s relationship to guilt. She obviously is carrying hard Joyce’s situation with the PTSD and not being there for her during Toedad’s rampage and feels it is on her to fix that which is broken. And we’ve seen that before, with her agonizing over not hurting Danny while breaking up with him or trying to get Walky to open up about stuff that’s bothering him.
She’s a fixer and when she can’t fix things, she starts nervously pawing at less ideal answers… such as honestly considering Walky’s nth “lol, lez out” suggestion*.
*It would be delicious irony if Walky eventually gets dumped because Dorothy and Joyce actually did find genuine romantic connection with each other. I mean, dude is kind of asking for it with all his taunting of the irony gods.
FWIW, I’m not sure that Walky is kidding or being obnoxious. It wouldn’t surprise me if he genuinely thinks that this is some kind of solution.
Yep, looks to me like Walky was being completely serious with his “perhaps you need to get busy with Joyce” suggestion there. He knows that sometimes, extreme situations call for extreme solutions.
OT3! OT3! OT3!
As opposed to my OTP, which is obvious given my avatar.
OT4! OT4! OT4!
(for reference, that’s Dorothy/Joyce/Becky/Dina….Walky can sit and watch :P)
YOU’RE PREGNANT!? CONGRATS! HURRAH SPREADING YOUR ARTISTIC BRILLIANCE GENES
Uhhh… His wife gave birth a few weeks ago
No no, now WILLIS is pregnant :V
… With Jeph Jaques’ love child. (Grinning, ducking, and running)
A love child? Please. Jacques’ progeny is a genetically engineered superbeing intended to rule the world and usher in the Singularity. And talk about butts a lot.
I can’t believe Willlis would cheat on Joel Watson.
In contemplating Willis having Jacques’ lovechild the first thought I had wasn’t “Wha? That’d be man pregnancy.” It was “But Jeph got himself snipped!
I wonder if Walky is still struggling with math, hence his stuttered response in the first panel?
I suspect so. I further suspect he still hasn’t told anyone or asked for help, and is also still hoping that he more or less magically becomes Good At College and starts being able to coast again like he did in high school.
(That might more or less be what happened to me. Spoiler alert: it did not work out well at all.)
Everyone else seems fixated on Dorothy’s remark, but I’m with you: Walky’s comment is what caught my attention.
Walky: I get to watch
Slipshine: “religious dykes of passage”
OR “the book of (sexy lezzie) acts”
Slipshine : “perfect cinnamon roll”.
I don’t think there’s a better title.
Very tasty. Very sweet.
What if the panel of her looking terrified in front a of is hearing her parents go on about homosexuality behind that door while it makes her think of that time she was with Dotty?
“Agnostic on Average”
The day Joyce made Dotty scream for God.
Walky’s stutter in response to the question about math doesn’t bode well. . We last actually saw him get a quiz back on a Monday, not long before everything happened with Toedad. Since then, there would have been a Wednesday class, and the Friday class presumably just let out. I’m guessing the situation hasn’t improved? Ah, well, I really didn’t think the situation would be resolved that easily.
Joyce’s smile in panel 2 is a mere shadow of her trademark triangle smile. Based on my less-than-proficient face reading skills, the smile doesn’t seem to be reaching her eyes. She is not fine, unless our definition is according to the acronym FINE. Fucked-up, Insecure, Neurotic, Emotional. Maybe Joyce is telling the truth when she she says she’s fine.
I hope my use of this acronym isn’t insulting to anyone who’s going through something. I don’t intend it to be. I’m no stranger to struggle, and mental health challenges, and I’ve applied this term to myself. I’ve had issues IRL where I didn’t realize the effect my words had on another person, and it lead to issues. I honestly don’t want to upset anyone. I apologize if I offended anyone.
Technically Walky didn’t lie, math is going the same as it had been. Unfortunately, that means it’s not going well
Yup.
I suspect Walky’s stubborn clinging to his pride may last all the way to midterms and the irrefutable truth that he’s heading for an F if he doesn’t change his habits.
nah, probably not the mid-terms. I mean, that’d be in 10 years IRL.
Louise Penny uses that acronym (FINE) in her books, but e is for egotistical. Very well written mysteries set in Canada. Unsure if that was a call out or if that is used elsewhere. Penny can be a bit of a poacher.
I think Joyce needs a long discussion with a liberal Christian. She needs to see she can love her God and live in reality with everyone else. At least that’s what worked for me.
Yeah, I think that could be really helpful for her. Unfortunately, as far as I can gather, she’s spent most of her life to date avoiding liberal Christians like the plague.
she was also suppose to avoid atheist too but now her best friend is one….you know what would help? a good old talk with her dear brother.
*evil smile* I’m really looking forward to her homecoming, because I suspect that Jocelyne might be living at home at the moment, which means that there will be a lot of potential moments of interaction even if she is not fully ready to come out to her sister yet.
She doesn’t have a brother, she does however have a sister:P
She does have two brothers as well as the one sister. But point definitely stands. 🙂
She has three older siblings in this continuity, Jocelyne, Joseph, and Jordan. (Not necessarily in that order.) We’ll see at least two of them later.
Jonathan, not Joseph. (That might be one of the ones that didn’t make it over from the old universe.)
I think perhaps newllend meant ‘brother’ from Joyce’s point of view.
Except, she has that with Becky. The problem is that Becky is being a liberal Christian by rejecting aspects she was taught like the evil of homosexuality and the rightness of creationism. And Joyce isn’t quite ready to do that yet and so is emotionally struggling right now.
She’s letting go of some of her tainted beliefs, but is still scared she is selling her soul in standing for what is right.
Becky is a recent and sudden convert.
She needs someone who is stable and maybe even understands her doubts and the confusion.
I grew up a strict Catholic. It’s really jarring learning everything you believed is wrong up to a point. To learn it the way she has, it reaches a level I never had to deal with thankfully.
It still took a trans woman sitting me down and explaining everything to me for me to learn I could have my God and liberalism.
The next chapter heading is “When God Closes a Door” so I shouldn’t get too hopeful.
Just to be a pedant (It’s super fun!) the next chapter is “When God Closes the Door”.
Normally I wouldn’t pay too close attention to the choice of article but I swear I read somewhere that Joyce is from La Porte. (Which translates to The Door)
I suspect that Joyce is not in for a pleasant homecoming at all.
Fuck.
Oh geez, Joyce is going to leap out a window…
When one door closes, another one opens.
Walky will freak out if Dot really sexed up Joyce like he said.
Nah, only if Dorothy afterward dumped him for Joyce would he be bothered by it. No need for that, I think. Dorothy could be the first female atheist bisexual president in a poly relationship with with a man and a woman.
But what if someday the wrong female atheist bisexual president in a poly relationship with with a man and a woman runs for office?
You mean like J&W!Dorothy possessed by HA? That would be bad!
Iunno. Hijinks would ensue?
No, it’s sharksplode now!
That answers the question I had wondering about how Walky was doing in his math (and other classes?).
Joyce is quiet but just maybe she is just trying to assimilate all of the many events of the past few days.
Yeah, he’s totally sinking, it seems.
It had looked as if Joyce was walking alone immediately after the cycle ride, if her friends let her, she may just start doing that.
She didn’t seem to care much one way or other about Walky being there or maybe it is just the hug?
“I’m fine”.
Joyce totally is seeing throught you~
Also the alt text is hilarous.
One True Ninesome. (Joyce/Dorothy/Walky/Becky/Dina/Amber/Danny/Ethan/somehow Joe sneaks in.)
Joyce/Dorothy/Walky/Becky/Dina I understand (and support if we are talking absurdly large ships), and Amber/Danny/Ethan (you stay out of this Joe), but I don’t know where the crossover between those two groups would come in.
The link is Dina/Amber: Sympathy Through Full Body Physical Contact.
And Danny/Dorothy – she didn’t break up with him because he was bad in the sack…
Roz cannot participate because she has her hands full providing the contraceptives and instructing people in their proper use.
Someone has to work the video camera, after all.
Yes, yes it would
Well, it works for Walky (on a regular basis), so maybe there’s something to it…..
give or take on a 50/50 chance.
what im getting from this is she’d totally do it
(but no, that wouldn’t work)
This is the part where Faz creeps his head from beyond some shrubs at the very mention of the word “Bang”
Interestingly enough, Walky’s first line in the last panel has some validity (not necessarily the infinite plus one bang suggestion, though it sets up an excellent punchline). That Joyce is smiling momentarily is progress. When things are tumultuous and you’re stuck in your head a lot, it can be hard to fully access your emotions, doubly so after fresh trauma.
In fact, there’s a name for the condition in PTSD. It’s called “hypoarousal” and it’s basically a condition where after a trauma, it becomes harder to feel things and things just generally shut down. You start slowing down and often are prone to spells of sadness, irritability and low-grade nervousness. Additionally, it can be hard to both show joy and gratitude to actions that would normally make you feel happy and it can lead to situations like Ruth involving depression and the loss of any ability to feel emotions at all.
And I think that’s exactly what is happening with Joyce. And well, her ability to show joy at touch even in small moments is a good sign. It means, that there might be a slow thawing of the hypoaroused state.
However, the fact that it is this intense to begin with means that her PTSD is definitely starting to become compound PTSD with all the big terrible life events she is racking up and without therapy and not feeling fully comfortable sharing what is happening internally with her friends, she may run into some bumpy roads trying to recover.
But Joyce smiling being a good sign is still better than Ruth crying being a good sign, right? Right?
(Man, when did I get so sentimental?)
It’s a bit apples and oranges. But they are both good signs. Ruth having emotions other than lust and anger is very good and being able to consistently access sadness is critical for her recovery (also girl needs anti-depressants in the worst way). In a very similar way, Joyce having moments like these where she’s pulling briefly out of the hypoarousal is a good sign for healthily living with her PTSD.
But it also means they both have a hard road that is not at all fun, speaking as an individual whose had both clinical depression and PTSD-related hypoarousal.
It’s been stated that Joyce is autobiographical, are there any parallels you can share without spoilers, Mr. Willis?
Yes, yes it would work. Absolutely, 100%.
Christian side hug.
Damn you, Willis! Why must you be so good at making me sad?
Because we live in a world ruled by a merciless God.
I can’t put my finger on why, but I LOVE the colors in this one. Something with the contrast between Joyce and Dorothy’s color schemes.
Anyway, this is breaking my heart, and Dorothy’s too if I am any judge.
For reference, this is about a week after this http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/spendmoretime/
Oh please, everyone think sex is the answer to everything when it’s clearly the number 42.
Joyce – almost died and around the same time may be coming to the conclusion that there’s no afterlife.
Following conversation…
Joyce: “D..dor…Dorothy… how do… how do you live… with…. knowing one day…. you’ll just… not… *tears up*… not..be?”
Dorothy: “I don’t.”
Joyce: “W…wha?”
Dorothy: “I’ve got a life insurance policy that’s paying for my cryogenic freezing if I ever kick the bucket, since that is currently in option now. And possibly before (or after) that point, depending on when science get’s there, I’ll switch out for a cyborg body that doesn’t age or get old. I’m a veritable immortal.”
Joyce: “So… there’s no one… who… und….understan…”
Dorothy: “Shhhh…. lets go look over life insurance plans for you.”
If that was the case, I’d lose respect like nothing’s business. I’ve got no patience for ‘atheists’ who fall for such an obvious con and who can’t clear arguably one of the most important hurdles for an atheist, which is accepting one’s own impermanence and inevitable death. Folks who can’t pull up their big girl panties deserve tuna cans frozen to their foreheads for all eternity – and yes, that is something that happens in those freezers.
Dorothy… if you care enough about her that you would have sex with her… give some serious thought to your sexuality. I’m not saying that asexuals don’t have sex with their loved ones, but I am saying… think long and hard about it.
It’s possible to have sex without being very sexually aroused. I could probably have sex with a man. Doesn’t necessarily mean I’m bisexual.
True, but if you were seriously considering having sex with a man out of the blue, then… let’s just say that Kinsey 0 as far as she can tell may not be so null as she thinks.
My comment already accounted for this when I mentioned asexuality, which is a sexual orientation in which you don’t experience sexual attraction.
Is that foreshadowing I see in panel three:http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/kinsey/
I have to admit I’m amused at the number of commenters who think that Dorothy is actually seriously considering it in the last panel as opposed to numbly finding something to say about the situation.
Yes, I’m aware of http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/kinsey/. But sleeping with someone because you think it might fix them is different from doing so because you actually want to. And would be kind of disturbing, really, especially from someone who as recently as a few days ago was pretty certain she was exclusively straight.
TL;DR: shippers, you get creepy really, really fast. But then I suppose that’s the whole point.
This is side of the internet is less creepy and nicer than other sides “cough deep web cough”.
It isn’t Dorothy I’m worried about, it’s Walky. He’s the sort of guy who wouldn’t understand the subtleties of the situation and take it at bald face value.
The first hint Dorothy would get of this is when she’s grabbed by a furious Sal who is demanding to know why she thinks it’s right to seduce Joyce to ‘make her feel better’. After an argument, it turns out that Walky asked Sal if it was appropriate for him to ask for permission to watch the action.
Just an additional thought: It probably says more about the Internet than it does about Willis’s characters that people can’t imagine Joyce and Dorothy having a deep, intimate friendship that has absolutely no romantic or sexual element.
Well, given that Willis’s characters keep bringing it up, I don’t think it’s just us.
Walky is the only person who brings it up and Walky is a gigantic butthole with absolutely no understanding of homosexuality.
Becky misinterpreted Dorothy as a romantic rival.
Joyce having bisexual tendencies is a thing Willis has been hinting at, even beyond Dorothy: “warm and safe” in Billie’s breasts, for example. Her relationship with Sal had elements of “crush” as well.
Mind you, I don’t think he’s actually going there, but the hints are real. Certainly enough to set shippers off. Of course two characters existing is enough to set shippers off, much less actually talking to each other.:)
And it is also noted that she learned what a platonic friendship looks like from a woman who has turned out to have had a years’ long crush on her.
And yeah, don’t really think it is serious at all.
Mainly because “sex to fix someone” is a completely disgusting trope when played straight. Or it at least to me is really triggering and off-putting, because of my background as an ace woman and the unfortunate reality of individuals thinking their punguses and dingdongs will “cure us” if we just let them “heal us” with their sex.
And frankly I trust Willis enough to not go there.
Oh yeah, I forgot that Becky did that too, though she at least had pretty valid reasons for believing it.
FWIW I do think Joyce might not be a solid Kinsey 0, at the least I think it’s a perfectly valid interpretation of the character, but Walky treats it like he’s trying to humiliate Joyce and using her friendship with Dorothy to do it.
Walky is, as usual, crude and not at all respectful. I don’t think he means anything harmful by it, which doesn’t mean it can’t hurt. He’s also smarter and far more perceptive than he lets on, so I wouldn’t dismiss what he sees.
But mostly yeah, I think the perception is due to her idea of close female friendships being shaped by her friendship with Becky, who was, probably unintentionally, treating it more as a romance than a friendship.
Why do all of my posts basically just say: “See what Cerberus just wrote”?
Walky is pretty smart, but perceptive he is not, let alone when it comes to sexuality. He sussed out that Ethan was gay because he didn’t act enough like how Walky thinks a heterosexual man should with a woman, and he thinks Joyce is seconds away from lezzing out because how else could a woman have a close, intimate friendship with another.
And yeah he’s probably not trying to cause serious harm but he’s still just annoying her for his own amusement. That’s what he does.
“I’m fine” in a “No I’m fucking dying inside now leave me alone” manner.
We need to compile a Joyce-English phrase book. There is this, and “I’m getting soft serve.” in a “Fuck You.” manner.
What else?
It could also mean:
“I’m emotionally suffering, but I’d prefer not to talk about it or make you worry unduly. Especially since part of my suffering is due to how my friendships with you and Becky is making me question the very values I was brought up to believe. And I’m scared that the fact that I think said values may actually be immoral in places is what everyone back home warned me was the path straight to Hell.”
Jumping away from the Joyce x Dotty shipping, I see that Walky is still hiding his problems in class from everyone, even his girlfriend. I suspect that he feels somewhat ashamed that he is having trouble and it has become an aspect of his self-esteem to keep it hidden from his peers.
He thinks “having to try hard to maintain a good grade” or “struggling in a subject” is synonymous with “idiot” and he has too much pride and self-image wrapped up in being so “smart” he doesn’t even need to try.
So yeah, because he wouldn’t respect anyone in his position, he’s not going to tell any of his friends unless it is completely unavoidable.
I think he’s hiding it from Dorothy because he thinks she’ll leave him if she finds out that he’s not actually breezing through college with straight A’s like he told her he was.
I don’t think she’d leave him because of that. Honestly, I think she’d love to have study dates. But I think Walky is starting to feel like he’s an idiot, like he’s failing everyone around him.
Real Talk: if Dot and Joyce and Walky were to Do The Thing, that would be a real bad threesome, like the friendship-destroying kind
Which would actually contrast nicely with Actual OT3 Danny/Amber/Ethan
I still don’t get how anybody thinks those three could work.
I’m thinking it could if, say, Amber and Danny stay together through college and beyond, have an open and/or poly relationship, and Ethan were not the first guy for Danny. Even then it could be bad. Really bad. So yeah, It seems like compounding disaster with disaster if it were done in the timeframe of the comic.
Here it comes then !
Honestly, if you only consider Ethan and Amber, it could totally work.
Ethan is very easy-going and is probably looking for something that is lower commitment for a first-relationship as everything is super scary. He is also very much wanting to connect back in Amber’s life and feels guilty for not really being able to be there sexually for her.
And Amber? Amber has frequently been shown to have a fetish for both two men being together and threesomes. She’s made punchlines on multiple occasions about someone in her fantasies being bisexual and wanting a threesome and she is sexually attracted to both Ethan and Danny. As such, I could not only see her enjoying a poly V, but being the one to suggest it.
So where would it all fall apart? Danny.
Danny is really monogamous and wants a monogamous relationship structure. He wants to be the one big thing in someone’s life and have them be the one big thing in his and he is not at all comfortable having sexual attractions to multiple people. While he is sexually and romantically interested in both Amber and Ethan (as well as Amber’s alters) and while he may be willing to do Amber a solid if he thought he owed her, he’s just too mono to be comfortable for very long in a poly setup. Especially one where he is the center of the V.
And it’s a shame because it would be cool to see more stable poly representation (though I’d dislike it if the only currently out bi man was shown to be poly oriented as it’s a pretty nasty stereotype of bi men that they are inherently untrustworthy in monogamous relationships (though not nearly as much as I’d dislike it if he was shown to be a cheater, because fricking every depiction of bi men in media shows them to be untrustworthy cheaters and it’s annoying as fuck)).
Disregarding Danny, because let’s face it that dude is the idea of monogamy made manifest, I’m not entirely sure Ethan and Amber would be up for being in a relationship with each other, even with a third person they were mutually into. I don’t think Ethan can romantically love her and Amber’s described sex as “weird and personal”. Even in Shortpacked they fought a lot over Mike.
I feel like there’s still too much bitterness and guilt between the two for them to actually have a poly romance with each other.
Hmm. I suspect Amber would be a problem as well.
First, fantasizing about threesomes or somesuch is far more common than actually wanting to be in one or even more being able to deal with a long-term poly relationship.
More importantly, Amber’s in no place to handle this. Her first instinct would be to back out of the relationship. “Amber’s no good. She doesn’t deserve this. Let Danny be happy with Ethan.” That’s a poisonous attitude to bring into any relationship, but I suspect it would be even worse in a poly one.
To be fair, Danny had never heard of bisexuality before this week so it’s not fair to say he knows anything about non-mono relationships. To him anything besides what he knows is either “cheating” or “swingers” and he doesn’t like either of those things.
Given that Danny can be educated about polyfidelity (and is cool with it), Amber does not freak out about the bi thing (given past experience with Ethan), and Ethan is not completely turned off by a nekkid Amber in the room, I think they’d make a great trio.
Sure it’s a long shot, but this ship still sails.
I think she should at least make the attempt. For friendship.
Only one way to find out, Dorothy!
http://pbfcomics.com/131/
“I saw a smiiiille”…
One does not simply ‘bounce back’ from having their entire world-view shattered into a million pieces.
Aaaaand straight to slipshine, zero emphasis on the ‘straight’ part.
Man… Joyce REALLY should talk to a therapist of some sort.
Next Slipshine confirmed!
… Well, Joe is an appropriate gravatar for that.
In sincerity…Joyce is probably going to be okay. At the very least, her being a bit mopey after everything she’s just been through isn’t huge cause for concern. I had a really hard time with this same transition, but I’m better for it now.
I’m worried about how much she’s going to be hurt in the interim, but she’s probably going to be fine.
Yeah, this. It hurts having to radically realign everything you thought you knew about yourself and the people who claimed to love you. And it takes a little bit of time to recover from. Especially when its prefaced by some really scary violent trauma.
Joyce has a lot on her mind and doesn’t feel like she’s got anyone who really understands (Becky would normally be the perfect person to go to on this, but Becky has not been shown to struggle with her faith. She knows that her idea of God loves her and would never lie to her, so everything that doesn’t fit that must be bullshit and can be thrown away).
So she’s going to be mostly incommunicado for a bit.
She’s also probably summoning up emotional armor for her visit home this weekend. She knows that her mom is emotionally manipulative and can say awful things, so she needs to gather a lot of strength up for dealing with that in the midst of her loss of faith.
I don’t know if it will work, but for the sake of the fans you have to try.
Well, it’d give Becky an actual reason to hate you.
…That isn’t a no.
Yay!
It’d work for US
Uhhh…next sliphine idea?
I support this course of action.
alt text is too dang cute